Question:

IN a democracy, the voters eventually vote themselves all the money. In this Case, Feminist have voted all the money to them. That is why the founders didn’t implement a democracy in the U.S.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is a Riddle: K…in three sentences, tie this in with divorce.

Response:

It is a Riddle: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – K…in three sentences, tie this in with divorce.

Response:

Riddle: ——- 102 people, sitting on an island. They make a democratic government and want to use a money system. 2 people open up banks, and are given the authority to extend loans to all individuals, do the accounting, and lend the government extra funds beyond tax income. – If they set any interest rate on the loans, how can all loans be repaid ? – If they use any collateral for the loans, what will they come to own for   which they have not worked ? – If they can print money AND draw interest, is the accounting work they do   in relation to the wealth they will create in proffits ? – If the government bails them out of very large bad loans with taxes, to   keep the money-system from collapsing, what check do they have on their   behaviour ? Wouldn’t this island ultimately come under some kind of the control of the two bankers, especially if the bankers go out and buy the large and popular media outlets, or if they control them by means of loans ? This island is, however, our Earth. Nations have vast sums of money to be paying off into the private banks who perchase large amounts of "government bonds" ("i owe you + interest" certificates), thus lending the government money through this means. Tax-revenues must ultimately be directed towards banks’ to pay off the loans and the interest-proffits. Is the proffit gained on a 1 billion dollar loan at 10% interest, in relation to the book keeping needed to write down the loan and the payments on it every month ? Can you solve the riddle ? One solution would be, and has always been claimed to be: .tnemnrevog citarcomed eht fo sdnah eht ni rewop noitaerc yenom eht tuP

Response:

Question:

I have a number of problems with your post. Firstly, as mentioned in my first post. If the rest of the world does not eat ice cream does that mean we should not either. Secondly why are you so interested in protecting the wealth of Mr Branson and British Airlines. Shouldn’t the interests of consumers come first (for once) Whilst you didn’t make this comment, why is that  we as a usernet community or a  government suppose  to protect major international airlines from the mistake of running a loss making venture. I am sure they would have enough accountants and lawyers who could work out whether it would be profitable. Dare I say even more of an idea than Mr Howard. What no one will come to admit is that the only loser under the current system is the consumer. Frankly it is always the consumer who gets fucked over for the protection of big business. That is the correct answer. Give int airlines the right to take domestic carriers if they so desire. It is certainly better than the govt pumping a billion dollars of taxpayers money into a dog like Ansett. BTW what is Oz airline, is there an Australian airline I am not aware of? Cheers Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren, I understand where you are coming from, but I don’t think this will bring competition, only ‘dumping’. You could sell those seat for virtually nothing, and as you say, it would be cream, but there is no way of actually competing with someone who is dumping. Added to this is the fact that most of the airlines you are talking about are either government owned (in some way), protected from the same thing you are suggesting (US), or simply don’t have to worry about it, as they don’t have a similar market from which we (QF, or any other Oz airline) could get some business in return. If you want cheap seats, there are plenty on both the QF and Virgin web sites. JB Again I ask for the 6th time. If this restrictive anti competitive arrangement was removed, has it been reregulated. Were there any restrictions after the removal of the anti competitive arrangements which made it more expensive for INT airlines excluding Qantas from taking customers. Were they given any time to work through the logistical issues ie customs, bookings etc. I find it hard to believe that it would be loss making as the seats at the moment are vacant. Why would filling empty seats at reduced rates be loss making. It is simply cream. When were they given the option. I don’t remember reading about it. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, unless it was just a figment of your imagination. This is a troll right?? It was all over the news and ads were everywhere in the papers for the cheap fares United, Garuda, Korean and JAL were offering on their intra-Oz flights. As Rod correctly pointed out, International carriers were given the right to carry domestic only pax on any intra-Oz routes they had, not long after Ansett collapsed. I admit I don’t know if it’s still in existence or not or if the carriers dropped doing them. The other problem with that is that there are very very few intra-Oz routes being operated by foreign carriers as tags or add-ons. They’d find it a highly loss making exercise to add them just for domestic as well, so I wouldn’t expect to see any of them adding them. As for the "difficulties in customs" someone else was asking about, for domestic pax using an International Terminal, there are none. For many many years now the International Terminals have had orange Domestic Only desks at Immigration. All you have to do is flash your Drivers Licence or picture ID and pass on through. Your boarding passes are given a bright orange sticker with "D" on it to signify you as a domestic only passenger and not entitled to duty free purchases etc. Cheers. Al.

Response:

Some gutless coward desperately cowering behind

Ouch your insults are really hurting.

Just dont burst into tears child, everyone will really put the boot in if you do that. This is getting overly difficult getting a straight answer,

Then you’d better get off your fat arse and chase up the detail for yourself. so for the 8th time I will ask.

You can chuck as many tantrums a you like, child. If you want the detail, you’ll have to get off your fat arse and chase up the detail for yourself. Were all international carriers OR JUST QANTAS given the right to fly domestic after Ansett went bust.

That has already been answered more than once. It wasnt just Qantas, stupid. Qantas was allowed to carry domestic passengers on their international flights LONG before Ansett went bust. Could all international airlines OR JUST QANTAS fly domestic routes as part of an international flight after Ansett went bust.

That has already been answered more than once. It wasnt just Qantas, stupid. Qantas was allowed to carry domestic passengers on their international flights LONG before Ansett went bust. Is this competition still open to all international airlines OR JUST QANTAS

That has already been answered more than once. It isnt just Qantas, stupid. or has this right been removed completely through reregulation.

That has already been answered more than once. It hasnt been ‘removed completely’ and United and Qantas still do it. Rod Speed, as part of your insulting reply could you please try and answer the question without skirting around the issue.

Gutless, if you want the detail, you’ll have to get off your fat arse and chase up the detail for yourself. No hope that you will ever be able to actually comprehend what you have already been told more than once, so no one is gunna bother chasing up any more details when its just in one ear and out the other with you. If you don’t know the answer then don’t reply.

Silly little stupid children get no say what so ever on what anyone else posts, ever. If you do know the answer then reply and answer the question (with the insults if you so desire)

Silly little stupid children get no say what so ever on what anyone else posts, ever. I can’t write the question more clearly than what I have written above.

Your problem. In spades with your comprehension of what you have been told repeatedly already. This is not about me getting cheaper tickets, it is about correct public policy.

Silly little stupid children get no say what  so ever on ‘correct public policy’ Why should Australian consumers subsidise Mr Branson

They dont. Even someone as stupid as you should be able to grasp that Branson isnt making any money out of Aust consumers currently. and British Airlines, the majority owner of Qantas.

Pigs arse they are the majority owner of Qantas, stupid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When were they given the option. Like I said, just after Ansett went bust, when there was a hell of a problem moving people around with Ansett gone. I don’t remember reading about it. Your deficiencys are your problem. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. God knows what you ‘think’ that sentance is saying. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Deregulation happened much earlier than that. Separate issue entirely to international carriers being allowed to carry domestic passengers. Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Pointless when they clearly werent interested in bothering when Ansett had just gone bust. And that wasnt with your $50 fares either. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Nope. Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, No thanks, you’re always free to chase the detail up for yourself. From memory Anderson announced it. unless it was just a figment of your imagination. Beats being a figment of your complete pig ignorance, any day.

Response:

When were they given the option. I don’t remember reading about it. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, unless it was just a figment of your imagination.

Response:

Very simple. Open up the option of international carriers as they go through our capital cities taking domestic passengers.

It’s the 21st Century – check the airline schedules and see exactly how many (few) o/s international carriers "go through our capital cities". Over here in the west our brilliant premier, Galloping Geoffery, was reported to recently have had a similar brain fart. Only problem was that none of his minders told him that all international services except one terminate in Perth.  And somehow I don’t see Air Mauritius taking much interest in this idea with their once a week Perth to Melbourne return flight (northern winter only). you would probably have a minimum of 2 more airlines offering domestic travel to consumers overnight ie as they empty half there passengers off at Sydney, they could pick up domestic passengers and take them to Melbourne.

It’s been done, United were offered Sydney-Melbourne when Ansett died the first time. But generally most countries like to keep sovereignty over their domestic air services – check out "Freedoms of the Air" and "cabotage". Sounds good, but … Aubrey

Response:

When were they given the option. I don’t remember reading about it. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, unless it was just a figment of your imagination.

This is a troll right?? It was all over the news and ads were everywhere in the papers for the cheap fares United, Garuda, Korean and JAL were offering on their intra-Oz flights. As Rod correctly pointed out, International carriers were given the right to carry domestic only pax on any intra-Oz routes they had, not long after Ansett collapsed. I admit I don’t know if it’s still in existence or not or if the carriers dropped doing them. The other problem with that is that there are very very few intra-Oz routes being operated by foreign carriers as tags or add-ons. They’d find it a highly loss making exercise to add them just for domestic as well, so I wouldn’t expect to see any of them adding them. As for the "difficulties in customs" someone else was asking about, for domestic pax using an International Terminal, there are none. For many many years now the International Terminals have had orange Domestic Only desks at Immigration. All you have to do is flash your Drivers Licence or picture ID and pass on through. Your boarding passes are given a bright orange sticker with "D" on it to signify you as a domestic only passenger and not entitled to duty free purchases etc. Cheers. Al.

Response:

I have a number of problems with your post.

Your problem. Firstly, as mentioned in my first post. If the rest of the world does not eat ice cream does that mean we should not either.

Duh. Secondly why are you so interested in protecting the wealth of Mr Branson and British Airlines.

No one who has commented here is. Shouldn’t the interests of consumers come first (for once)

Mindless stuff. Whilst you didn’t make this comment, why is that we as a usernet community or a government suppose to protect major international airlines from the mistake of running a loss making venture.

No one who has commented here is doing that either. Your nose was rubbed in the FACT that when the international carriers were allowed to do what you want after the demise of Ansett, none of them bothered to do much at all. Even someone as stupid as you should be able to grasp that thats much less likely to interest them at $50 fares. I am sure they would have enough accountants and lawyers who could work out whether it would be profitable.

Yep, which is why they didnt bother with it when they were allowed to  do it after the demise of Ansett. Dare I say even more of an idea than Mr Howard.

Nothing to do with Howard. What no one will come to admit is that the only loser under the current system is the consumer.

Nothing to ‘admit’. If the international carriers didnt bother when they were allowed to do it after the demise of Ansett, they sure aint gunna bother now with $50 fares. You can stamp your tiny foot as often as you like and rave on about ‘consumers’ till the cows come home, doesnt change a damned thing. Frankly it is always the consumer who gets fucked over for the protection of big business.

Wrong. As always. Have fun explaining why the phone monopoly was ripped away from Telstra and why the cozy domestic monopoly was ripped away with the airlines. Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that Ansett has just gone bust because the cozy duopoly was ripped away. Some ‘protection of big business’ That is the correct answer. Give int airlines the right to take domestic carriers if they so desire.

They were given that after Ansett went bust. They all just yawned and ignored that change in what they were allowed to do. It is certainly better than the govt pumping a billion dollars of taxpayers money into a dog like Ansett.

Just your pathetic little fantasy. BTW what is Oz airline, is there an Australian airline I am not aware of?

Its just another way of saying australian airline, stupid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren, I understand where you are coming from, but I don’t think this will bring competition, only ‘dumping’. You could sell those seat for virtually nothing, and as you say, it would be cream, but there is no way of actually competing with someone who is dumping. Added to this is the fact that most of the airlines you are talking about are either government owned (in some way), protected from the same thing you are suggesting (US), or simply don’t have to worry about it, as they don’t have a similar market from which we (QF, or any other Oz airline) could get some business in return. If you want cheap seats, there are plenty on both the QF and Virgin web sites. JB Again I ask for the 6th time. If this restrictive anti competitive arrangement was removed, has it been reregulated. Were there any restrictions after the removal of the anti competitive arrangements which made it more expensive for INT airlines excluding Qantas from taking customers. Were they given any time to work through the logistical issues ie customs, bookings etc. I find it hard to believe that it would be loss making as the seats at the moment are vacant. Why would filling empty seats at reduced rates be loss making. It is simply cream. When were they given the option. I don’t remember reading about it. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, unless it was just a figment of your imagination. This is a troll right?? It was all over the news and ads were everywhere in the papers for the cheap fares United, Garuda, Korean and JAL were offering on their intra-Oz flights. As Rod correctly pointed out, International carriers were given the right to carry domestic only pax on any intra-Oz routes they had, not long after Ansett collapsed. I admit I don’t know if it’s still in existence or not or if the carriers dropped doing them. The other problem with that is that there are very very few intra-Oz routes being operated by foreign carriers as tags or add-ons. They’d find it a highly loss making exercise to add them just for domestic as well, so I wouldn’t expect to see any of them adding them. As for the "difficulties in customs" someone else was asking about, for domestic pax using an International Terminal, there are none. For many many years now the International Terminals have had orange Domestic Only desks at Immigration. All you have to do is flash your Drivers Licence or picture ID and pass on through. Your boarding passes are given a bright orange sticker with "D" on it to signify you as a domestic only passenger and not entitled to duty free purchases etc.

Response:

Ouch your insults are really hurting. This is getting overly difficult getting a straight answer, so for the 8th time I will ask. Were all international carriers OR JUST QANTAS given the right to fly domestic after Ansett went bust. Could all international airlines OR JUST QANTAS fly domestic routes as part of an international flight after Ansett went bust. Is this competition still open to all international airlines OR JUST QANTAS or  has  this right been removed completely through reregulation. Rod Speed, as part of your insulting reply could you please try and answer the question without skirting around the issue. If you don’t know the answer then don’t reply. If you do know the answer then reply and answer the question (with the insults if you so desire) I can’t write the question more clearly than what I have written above. This is not about me getting cheaper tickets, it is about correct public policy. Why should Australian consumers subsidise Mr Branson and British Airlines, the majority owner of Qantas.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When were they given the option. Like I said, just after Ansett went bust, when there was a hell of a problem moving people around with Ansett gone. I don’t remember reading about it. Your deficiencys are your problem. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. God knows what you ‘think’ that sentance is saying. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Deregulation happened much earlier than that. Separate issue entirely to international carriers being allowed to carry domestic passengers. Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Pointless when they clearly werent interested in bothering when Ansett had just gone bust. And that wasnt with your $50 fares either. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Nope. Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, No thanks, you’re always free to chase the detail up for yourself. From memory Anderson announced it. unless it was just a figment of your imagination. Beats being a figment of your complete pig ignorance, any day.

Response:

Again I ask for the 6th time. If this restrictive anti competitive arrangement was removed, has it been reregulated. Were there any restrictions after the removal of the anti competitive arrangements which made it more expensive for INT airlines excluding Qantas from taking customers. Were they given any time to work through the logistical issues ie customs, bookings etc. I find it hard to believe that it would be loss making as the seats at the moment are vacant. Why would filling empty seats at reduced rates be loss making. It is simply cream.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When were they given the option. I don’t remember reading about it. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, unless it was just a figment of your imagination. This is a troll right?? It was all over the news and ads were everywhere in the papers for the cheap fares United, Garuda, Korean and JAL were offering on their intra-Oz flights. As Rod correctly pointed out, International carriers were given the right to carry domestic only pax on any intra-Oz routes they had, not long after Ansett collapsed. I admit I don’t know if it’s still in existence or not or if the carriers dropped doing them. The other problem with that is that there are very very few intra-Oz routes being operated by foreign carriers as tags or add-ons. They’d find it a highly loss making exercise to add them just for domestic as well, so I wouldn’t expect to see any of them adding them. As for the "difficulties in customs" someone else was asking about, for domestic pax using an International Terminal, there are none. For many many years now the International Terminals have had orange Domestic Only desks at Immigration. All you have to do is flash your Drivers Licence or picture ID and pass on through. Your boarding passes are given a bright orange sticker with "D" on it to signify you as a domestic only passenger and not entitled to duty free purchases etc. Cheers. Al.

Response:

When were they given the option.

Like I said, just after Ansett went bust, when there was a hell of a problem moving people around with Ansett gone. I don’t remember reading about it.

Your deficiencys are your problem. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post.

God knows what you ‘think’ that sentance is saying. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt)

Deregulation happened much earlier than that. Separate issue entirely to international carriers being allowed to carry domestic passengers. Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now.

Pointless when they clearly werent interested in bothering when Ansett had just gone bust. And that wasnt with your $50 fares either. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate?

Nope. Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities,

No thanks, you’re always free to chase the detail up for yourself. From memory Anderson announced it. unless it was just a figment of your imagination.

Beats being a figment of your complete pig ignorance, any day.

Response:

Warren, I understand where you are coming from, but I don’t think this will bring competition, only ‘dumping’. You could sell those seat for virtually nothing, and as you say, it would be cream, but there is no way of actually competing with someone who is dumping. Added to this is the fact that most of the airlines you are talking about are either government owned (in some way), protected from the same thing you are suggesting (US), or simply don’t have to worry about it, as they don’t have a similar market from which we (QF, or any other Oz airline) could get some business in return. If you want cheap seats, there are plenty on both the QF and Virgin web sites. JB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again I ask for the 6th time. If this restrictive anti competitive arrangement was removed, has it been reregulated. Were there any restrictions after the removal of the anti competitive arrangements which made it more expensive for INT airlines excluding Qantas from taking customers. Were they given any time to work through the logistical issues ie customs, bookings etc. I find it hard to believe that it would be loss making as the seats at the moment are vacant. Why would filling empty seats at reduced rates be loss making. It is simply cream. When were they given the option. I don’t remember reading about it. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, unless it was just a figment of your imagination. This is a troll right?? It was all over the news and ads were everywhere in the papers for the cheap fares United, Garuda, Korean and JAL were offering on their intra-Oz flights. As Rod correctly pointed out, International carriers were given the right to carry domestic only pax on any intra-Oz routes they had, not long after Ansett collapsed. I admit I don’t know if it’s still in existence or not or if the carriers dropped doing them. The other problem with that is that there are very very few intra-Oz routes being operated by foreign carriers as tags or add-ons. They’d find it a highly loss making exercise to add them just for domestic as well, so I wouldn’t expect to see any of them adding them. As for the "difficulties in customs" someone else was asking about, for domestic pax using an International Terminal, there are none. For many many years now the International Terminals have had orange Domestic Only desks at Immigration. All you have to do is flash your Drivers Licence or picture ID and pass on through. Your boarding passes are given a bright orange sticker with "D" on it to signify you as a domestic only passenger and not entitled to duty free purchases etc. Cheers. Al.

Response:

My wife last December had to go to Sydney with Qantas.  When she arrived in Brisbane Domestic she where told the flight was from the International. I wondered how in the world they sort out the passengers at the Immigration and Customs. She said she was taken by a shuttle Bus inside the Sydney Airport to the Domestic where she picked up her suitcase. PEM

Well if Quantas can do this, any airline should be allowed to do it. Otherwise its against the spirit of the ACCC.

Response:

I’ve caught a number of the Qantas international flights domestically but I try to avoid them, you do tend to get caught up in the queues and you have to be there earlier (45 mins is the minimum, I believe, but I’ve cut it finer than that before). Passport control in and out isn’t too bad with the lane for domestic passengers but you also get the package tour groups and such through there as well. You get more people at baggage claim due to more passengers usually checking more for their holiday or whatever, but I usually just have carry-on. The bigger queue is usually customs  where everyone is trying to get out the green lane.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a troll right?? It was all over the news and ads were everywhere in the papers for the cheap fares United, Garuda, Korean and JAL were offering on their intra-Oz flights. As Rod correctly pointed out, International carriers were given the right to carry domestic only pax on any intra-Oz routes they had, not long after Ansett collapsed. I admit I don’t know if it’s still in existence or not or if the carriers dropped doing them. The other problem with that is that there are very very few intra-Oz routes being operated by foreign carriers as tags or add-ons. They’d find it a highly loss making exercise to add them just for domestic as well, so I wouldn’t expect to see any of them adding them. As for the "difficulties in customs" someone else was asking about, for domestic pax using an International Terminal, there are none. For many many years now the International Terminals have had orange Domestic Only desks at Immigration. All you have to do is flash your Drivers Licence or picture ID and pass on through. Your boarding passes are given a bright orange sticker with "D" on it to signify you as a domestic only passenger and not entitled to duty free purchases etc. Cheers. Al.

Response:

Again I ask for the 6th time. If this restrictive anti competitive arrangement was removed, has it been reregulated. Were there any restrictions after the removal of the anti competitive arrangements which made it more expensive for INT airlines excluding Qantas from taking customers. Were they given any time to work through the logistical issues ie customs, bookings etc.

Wasnt necessary, Qantas had been carrying domestic passengers on some of their international flights for a long time before that so the customs stuff etc had been dealt with long before that. I find it hard to believe that it would be loss making as the seats at the moment are vacant.

Depends entirely on the fare charged and the hassle involved in handling domestic customers as well as the international ones. Why would filling empty seats at reduced rates be loss making. It is simply cream.

Wrong, there will always be some extra costs involved. And you have to consider how many passengers would bother with the extra hassle involved when there is no shortage of cheap seats with the domestic carriers too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When were they given the option. I don’t remember reading about it. I presume deregulation has been removed according to the wording of your post. How long was deregulation allowed (if it ever was which I doubt) Why was it removed, why wasn’t it left open and see if they make take up the option now. Were the int airlines given 3 weeks to get it in order and if they don’t we reregulate? Do you want to give a bit more detail to your claims that at some point after Ansett went bust,  the Australian Govt gave international airlines (not just Qantas) the right to take domestic passengers between main capital cities, unless it was just a figment of your imagination. This is a troll right?? It was all over the news and ads were everywhere in the papers for the cheap fares United, Garuda, Korean and JAL were offering on their intra-Oz flights. As Rod correctly pointed out, International carriers were given the right to carry domestic only pax on any intra-Oz routes they had, not long after Ansett collapsed. I admit I don’t know if it’s still in existence or not or if the carriers dropped doing them. The other problem with that is that there are very very few intra-Oz routes being operated by foreign carriers as tags or add-ons. They’d find it a highly loss making exercise to add them just for domestic as well, so I wouldn’t expect to see any of them adding them. As for the "difficulties in customs" someone else was asking about, for domestic pax using an International Terminal, there are none. For many many years now the International Terminals have had orange Domestic Only desks at Immigration. All you have to do is flash your Drivers Licence or picture ID and pass on through. Your boarding passes are given a bright orange sticker with "D" on it to signify you as a domestic only passenger and not entitled to duty free purchases etc.

Response:

I think that you can fly united to melbourne, from Sydney and VV. they launched a few months ago. Have they stopped?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I take your point but I wonder if one wouldn’t be willing to put up with the problems if the flight was say $50 Trouble is that its not likely to appeal to too many international airlines at that fare. At least give the international airlines a choice and see what happens. At the moment they are not allowed to fly DOMESTIC passengers on international airlines with the possible exception of Qantas. All you need is one and you are back to competition. I am willing to put a wager that one will take up the option. Again, let the option exist. Lets remember it is all cream for the international airline. It isnt, they have to pay for the staff to organise the hassle of mixing domestics and internationals. Again who are we to control how they run their business.Give them the choice to do there numbers and see if it is profitable. Again, I bet at least 1 possibly 2 possibly 10 will take up the option. I would imagine that with a bit of lateral thinking you could get around many of problems you mentioned. Sure, but its far from clear how may of the international airlines would bother. Again who are you or the government to decide. At the moment they are not allowed. Give them the option and see if they take it up. As infrastrucure is already there, I bet they will take it up. That aside, don’t you think that as long as the consumers are aware of the issues before they get on the flight then it is their choice? Sure. I dont see that bit as a major problem. Easily handled like that. The other problem is tho that you would take some risk of sinking Virgin and the last thing we need is a Qantas domestic monopoly. While they would have some competition from the internationals on a few routes, I dont expect the volume would be high, and they’d have a monopoly outside that tiny handful of routes. Virgin only do major routes anyway. If Virgin sink then thats life, why should we the taxpayers be subsidising this english multimillionaire. As for competition, as written above, if you open up the airlines, don’t worry about monopolies ever again. It is nice to see you wish to make Mr Branson wealthier than he already is. I certainly think it would be desirable to allow any international airline to do that if it wants to, but I dont expect it would have much effect at all. I beg to differ with your last line. I agree with your first.

Response:

I take your point but I wonder if one wouldn’t be willing to put up with the problems if the flight was say $50 Trouble is that its not likely to appeal to too many international airlines at that fare.

At least give the international airlines a choice and see what happens. At the moment they are not allowed to fly DOMESTIC passengers on international airlines with the possible exception of Qantas. All you need is one and you are back to competition. I am willing to put a wager that one will take up the option. Again, let the option exist. Lets remember it is all cream for the international airline. It isnt, they have to pay for the staff to organise the hassle of mixing domestics and internationals.

Again who are we to control how they run their business.Give them the choice to do there numbers and see if it is profitable. Again, I bet at least 1 possibly 2 possibly 10 will take up the option. I would imagine that with a bit of lateral thinking you could get around many of problems you mentioned. Sure, but its far from clear how may of the international airlines would bother.

Again who are you or the government to decide. At the moment they are not allowed. Give them the option and see if they take it up. As infrastrucure is already there, I bet they will take it up. That aside, don’t you think that as long as the consumers are aware of the issues before they get on the flight then it is their choice? Sure. I dont see that bit as a major problem. Easily handled like that. The other problem is tho that you would take some risk of sinking Virgin and the last thing we need is a Qantas domestic monopoly. While they would have some competition from the internationals on a few routes, I dont expect the volume would be high, and they’d have a monopoly outside that tiny handful of routes.

Virgin only do major routes anyway. If Virgin sink then thats life, why should we the taxpayers be subsidising this english multimillionaire. As for competition, as written above, if you open up the airlines, don’t worry about monopolies ever again. It is nice to see you wish to make Mr Branson wealthier than he already is. I certainly think it would be desirable to allow any international airline to do that if it wants to, but I dont expect it would have much effect at all.

I beg to differ with your last line. I agree with your first.

Response:

Very simple. Open up the option of international carriers as they go through our capital cities taking domestic passengers. It is so simple that I am surprised there has not been more talk about it.  Assuming you have the correct regulatory and safety policies in place, you would probably have a minimum of 2 more airlines offering domestic travel to consumers overnight ie as they empty half there passengers off at Sydney, they could pick up domestic passengers and take them to Melbourne. The cost of the flight would be minimal as any money domestic passengers pay is simply cream for them. BTW in would not cost the federal government ie taxpayers 1 billion dollars as is the  rumoured asking price in relation to Ansett mark 2. Within a week of opening you could be sure there would be an internet site which would give consumers the option of choosing which airline they wish to take – national / international. No one has ever given me a legitimate reason why we shouldn’t remove this anti competitive situation except to say that it would undercut Qantas ie shareholders and wealthy managers. The only winner would be the consumer but who cares about the consumer lets protect shareholder interests first. At the moment the government  simply does not allow it, this is simply anti competitive and provides Qantas and Mr Branson with a monopoly over the skies. It is a disgrace. Lets let Mr Branson and Qantas compete on a level playing field.

Response:

I take your point but I wonder if one wouldn’t be willing to put up with the problems if the flight was say $50 Trouble is that its not likely to appeal to too many international airlines at that fare. At least give the international airlines a choice and see what happens.

We did just after Ansett went bust. No one bothered. At the moment they are not allowed to fly DOMESTIC passengers on international airlines with the possible exception of Qantas.

Its more complicated than that. All you need is one and you are back to competition.

We have competition now. I am willing to put a wager that one will take up the option.

No one did when Ansett went bust. Again, let the option exist.

It did. Lets remember it is all cream for the international airline. It isnt, they have to pay for the staff to organise the hassle of mixing domestics and internationals. Again who are we to control how they run their business. Give them the choice to do there numbers and see if it is profitable.

We did when Ansett went bust. Again, I bet at least 1 possibly 2 possibly 10 will take up the option.

Again, you’ve lost your bet, no one did. I would imagine that with a bit of lateral thinking you could get around many of problems you mentioned. Sure, but its far from clear how may of the international airlines would bother. Again who are you or the government to decide.

It was tried. No one was interested. At the moment they are not allowed.

Its more complicated than that. Give them the option and see if they take it up.

We did when Ansett went bust. As infrastrucure is already there, I bet they will take it up.

You’ve lost your bet, no one did. That aside, don’t you think that as long as the consumers are aware of the issues before they get on the flight then it is their choice? Sure. I dont see that bit as a major problem. Easily handled like that. The other problem is tho that you would take some risk of sinking Virgin and the last thing we need is a Qantas domestic monopoly. While they would have some competition from the internationals on a few routes, I dont expect the volume would be high, and they’d have a monopoly outside that tiny handful of routes. Virgin only do major routes anyway.

They do more than the international carriers would compete on. If Virgin sink then thats life,

No thanks, not interested in just one domestic carrier. why should we the taxpayers be subsidising this english multimillionaire.

The taxpayers aint subsidising anyone. As for competition, as written above, if you open up the airlines, don’t worry about monopolies ever again.

We dont have a monopoly now. It is nice to see you wish to make Mr Branson wealthier than he already is.

He cant be getting any wealthier when they arent making much profit. I certainly think it would be desirable to allow any international airline to do that if it wants to, but I dont expect it would have much effect at all. I beg to differ with your last line.

Get down on your knees and beg properly. I agree with your first.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

Response:

I take your point but I wonder if one wouldn’t be willing to put up  with the problems if the flight was say $50 Lets remember it is all cream for the international airline. I would imagine that with a bit of lateral thinking  you could get around many of problems you mentioned. That aside, don’t you think that as long as the consumers are aware of the issues before they get on the flight then it is their choice? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got on a Jumbo one time in Sydney for a trip to Melbourne, Qantas were playing with the idea that you suggest. Well it took us about an hour to get all the passengers on board, then some problems ‘cos we’d missed the allocated time slot for take off. Then when we arrived in Melbourne at the domestic terminal we had to wait another 30 minutes or so for a parking spot at a gate that could cope with a Jumbo. Then the unload – dont ask – it was horrific. Then baggage delays because the carousel could nt cope with so many bags at once, plus 3 or 4 times the number of passengers milling around. All up the trip took about 5 hours – I was not a happy vegemite!!. I could drive in less than 10 hours!! The other problem with International flights is the customs and immigration processes. My understanding is that if you board an international flight you need a passport, etc. to get "back in" the country – even though you may not have exactly left. I think its one of those "all too hard" problems for the international airlines and they cant see the value in it.

Response:

I take your point but I wonder if one wouldn’t be willing to put up  with the problems if the flight was say $50 Lets remember it is all cream for the international airline. I would imagine that with a bit of lateral thinking  you could get around many of problems you mentioned. That aside, don’t you think that as long as the consumers are aware of the issues before they get on the flight then it is their choice?

So maybe you only want to fly between some  capital cities cheaply-  there are quite a few who want cheaper fares flying to regional centres and that will not happen if the cream goes overseas. Whilst your at it  - you should also insist overseas airlines to pick up and let down  at Albion Park,  Moruya and Canberra on the way to Melbourne – in your dream. rm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got on a Jumbo one time in Sydney for a trip to Melbourne, Qantas were playing with the idea that you suggest. Well it took us about an hour to get all the passengers on board, then some problems ‘cos we’d missed the allocated time slot for take off. Then when we arrived in Melbourne at the domestic terminal we had to wait another 30 minutes or so for a parking spot at a gate that could cope with a Jumbo. Then the unload – dont ask – it was horrific. Then baggage delays because the carousel could nt cope with so many bags at once, plus 3 or 4 times the number of passengers milling around. All up the trip took about 5 hours – I was not a happy vegemite!!. I could drive in less than 10 hours!! The other problem with International flights is the customs and immigration processes. My understanding is that if you board an international flight you need a passport, etc. to get "back in" the country – even though you may not have exactly left. I think its one of those "all too hard" problems for the international airlines and they cant see the value in it.

Response:

Ha ha point taken. As one is offering a different service in terms of cut price airline verse normal airline with BC and FC, you could go with the monopoly or oligopoly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thought that was a duopoly Very simple. Open up the option of international carriers as they go through our capital cities taking domestic passengers. It is so simple that I am surprised there has not been more talk about it.  Assuming you have the correct regulatory and safety policies in place, you would probably have a minimum of 2 more airlines offering domestic travel to consumers overnight ie as they empty half there passengers off at Sydney, they could pick up domestic passengers and take them to Melbourne. The cost of the flight would be minimal as any money domestic passengers pay is simply cream for them. BTW in would not cost the federal government ie taxpayers 1 billion dollars as is the  rumoured asking price in relation to Ansett mark 2. Within a week of opening you could be sure there would be an internet site which would give consumers the option of choosing which airline they wish to take – national / international. No one has ever given me a legitimate reason why we shouldn’t remove this anti competitive situation except to say that it would undercut Qantas ie shareholders and wealthy managers. The only winner would be the consumer but who cares about the consumer lets protect shareholder interests first. At the moment the government  simply does not allow it, this is simply anti competitive and provides Qantas and Mr Branson with a monopoly over the skies. It is a disgrace. Lets let Mr Branson and Qantas compete on a level playing field.

Response:

Thought that was a duopoly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very simple. Open up the option of international carriers as they go through our capital cities taking domestic passengers. It is so simple that I am surprised there has not been more talk about it.  Assuming you have the correct regulatory and safety policies in place, you would probably have a minimum of 2 more airlines offering domestic travel to consumers overnight ie as they empty half there passengers off at Sydney, they could pick up domestic passengers and take them to Melbourne. The cost of the flight would be minimal as any money domestic passengers pay is simply cream for them. BTW in would not cost the federal government ie taxpayers 1 billion dollars as is the  rumoured asking price in relation to Ansett mark 2. Within a week of opening you could be sure there would be an internet site which would give consumers the option of choosing which airline they wish to take – national / international. No one has ever given me a legitimate reason why we shouldn’t remove this anti competitive situation except to say that it would undercut Qantas ie shareholders and wealthy managers. The only winner would be the consumer but who cares about the consumer lets protect shareholder interests first. At the moment the government  simply does not allow it, this is simply anti competitive and provides Qantas and Mr Branson with a monopoly over the skies. It is a disgrace. Lets let Mr Branson and Qantas compete on a level playing field.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very simple. Open up the option of international carriers as they go through our capital cities taking domestic passengers. It is so simple that I am surprised there has not been more talk about it.  Assuming you have the correct regulatory and safety policies in place, you would probably have a minimum of 2 more airlines offering domestic travel to consumers overnight ie as they empty half there passengers off at Sydney, they could pick up domestic passengers and take them to Melbourne. The cost of the flight would be minimal as any money domestic passengers pay is simply cream for them. BTW in would not cost the federal government ie taxpayers 1 billion dollars as is the  rumoured asking price in relation to Ansett mark 2. Within a week of opening you could be sure there would be an internet site which would give consumers the option of choosing which airline they wish to take – national / international. No one has ever given me a legitimate reason why we shouldn’t remove this anti competitive situation except to say that it would undercut Qantas ie shareholders and wealthy managers. The only winner would be the consumer but who cares about the consumer lets protect shareholder interests first. At the moment the government  simply does not allow it, this is simply anti competitive and provides Qantas and Mr Branson with a monopoly over the skies. It is a disgrace. Lets let Mr Branson and Qantas compete on a level playing field.

I got on a Jumbo one time in Sydney for a trip to Melbourne, Qantas were playing with the idea that you suggest. Well it took us about an hour to get all the passengers on board, then some problems ‘cos we’d missed the allocated time slot for take off. Then when we arrived in Melbourne at the domestic terminal we had to wait another 30 minutes or so for a parking spot at a gate that could cope with a Jumbo. Then the unload – dont ask – it was horrific. Then baggage delays because the carousel could nt cope with so many bags at once, plus 3 or 4 times the number of passengers milling around. All up the trip took about 5 hours – I was not a happy vegemite!!. I could drive in less than 10 hours!! The other problem with International flights is the customs and immigration processes. My understanding is that if you board an international flight you need a passport, etc. to get "back in" the country – even though you may not have exactly left. I think its one of those "all too hard" problems for the international airlines and they cant see the value in it.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very simple. Open up the option of international carriers as they go through our capital cities taking domestic passengers. It is so simple that I am surprised there has not been more talk about it.  Assuming you have the correct regulatory and safety policies in place, you would probably have a minimum of 2 more airlines offering domestic travel to consumers overnight ie as they empty half there passengers off at Sydney, they could pick up domestic passengers and take them to Melbourne. The cost of the flight would be minimal as any money domestic passengers pay is simply cream for them. BTW in would not cost the federal government ie taxpayers 1 billion dollars as is the  rumoured asking price in relation to Ansett mark 2. Within a week of opening you could be sure there would be an internet site which would give consumers the option of choosing which airline they wish to take – national / international. No one has ever given me a legitimate reason why we shouldn’t remove this anti competitive situation except to say that it would undercut Qantas ie shareholders and wealthy managers. The only winner would be the consumer but who cares about the consumer lets protect shareholder interests first. At the moment the government  simply does not allow it, this is simply anti competitive and provides Qantas and Mr Branson with a monopoly over the skies. It is a disgrace. Lets let Mr Branson and Qantas compete on a level playing field.

It do happen.  I was going overseas with Singapore Air.   They where leaving from Sydney.  I was in Brisbane. They gave me a ticket for Japanese Airline from Brisbane to Sydney.  I guess they have some arrangement between themselves. My wife last December had to go to Sydney with Qantas.  When she arrived in Brisbane Domestic she where told the flight was from the International. I wondered how in the world they sort out the passengers at the Immigration and Customs. She said she was taken by a shuttle Bus inside the Sydney Airport to the Domestic where she picked up her suitcase. PEM

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very simple. Open up the option of international carriers as they go through our capital cities taking domestic passengers. It is so simple that I am surprised there has not been more talk about it.  Assuming you have the correct regulatory and safety policies in place, you would probably have a minimum of 2 more airlines offering domestic travel to consumers overnight ie as they empty half there passengers off at Sydney, they could pick up domestic passengers and take them to Melbourne. The cost of the flight would be minimal as any money domestic passengers pay is simply cream for them. BTW in would not cost the federal government ie taxpayers 1 billion dollars as is the  rumoured asking price in relation to Ansett mark 2. Within a week of opening you could be sure there would be an internet site which would give consumers the option of choosing which airline they wish to take – national / international. No one has ever given me a legitimate reason why we shouldn’t remove this anti competitive situation except to say that it would undercut Qantas ie shareholders and wealthy managers. The only winner would be the consumer but who cares about the consumer lets protect shareholder interests first. At the moment the government  simply does not allow it, this is simply anti competitive and provides Qantas and Mr Branson with a monopoly over the skies. It is a disgrace. Lets let Mr Branson and Qantas compete on a level playing field.

Response:

I take your point but I wonder if one wouldn’t be willing to put up with the problems if the flight was say $50

Trouble is that its not likely to appeal to too many international airlines at that fare. Lets remember it is all cream for the international airline.

It isnt, they have to pay for the staff to organise the hassle of mixing domestics and internationals. I would imagine that with a bit of lateral thinking you could get around many of problems you mentioned.

Sure, but its far from clear how may of the international airlines would bother. That aside, don’t you think that as long as the consumers are aware of the issues before they get on the flight then it is their choice?

Sure. I dont see that bit as a major problem. Easily handled like that. The other problem is tho that you would take some risk of sinking Virgin and the last thing we need is a Qantas domestic monopoly. While they would have some competition from the internationals on a few routes, I dont expect the volume would be high, and they’d have a monopoly outside that tiny handful of routes. I certainly think it would be desirable to allow any international airline to do that if it wants to, but I dont expect it would have much effect at all. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got on a Jumbo one time in Sydney for a trip to Melbourne, Qantas were playing with the idea that you suggest. Well it took us about an hour to get all the passengers on board, then some problems ‘cos we’d missed the allocated time slot for take off. Then when we arrived in Melbourne at the domestic terminal we had to wait another 30 minutes or so for a parking spot at a gate that could cope with a Jumbo. Then the unload – dont ask – it was horrific. Then baggage delays because the carousel could nt cope with so many bags at once, plus 3 or 4 times the number of passengers milling around. All up the trip took about 5 hours – I was not a happy vegemite!!. I could drive in less than 10 hours!! The other problem with International flights is the customs and immigration processes. My understanding is that if you board an international flight you need a passport, etc. to get "back in" the country – even though you may not have exactly left. I think its one of those "all too hard" problems for the international airlines and they cant see the value in it.

Response:

Question:

(Standing & Applauding) Yo, Elizabeth – You da’ Bomb! Excellent post! Tony   Pam:   Your experience is becoming increasingly common for large to small organizations.  Even huge organizations with major distribution networks like Amway have had to address some of these same issues.   See my specific comments in italics below.   Elizabeth Paulsen, President   Cascade e-Commerce Solutions, Inc.   http://www.bizincome.net     I am the Accountant of a small mfg. co with mainly wholesale sales.   We     have a web site up and running.  We want to begin looking at processing     retail sales from the web.  Several issues need addressing and I was     wondering if anyone else has faced these similar issues.  We are using     Macola Software.     1.  current sales are all on net 30.  Invoices are created and mailed     several days after shipping the mdse.  (retail web would be on the spot     invoice generation)   You can keep the net 30 standard for wholesale and use http://www.authorize.net for credit/debit card online realtime orders and http://www.chexpedite.net for online realtime check orders.  Both these systems are secure and result in an instant automatic electronic invoice/receipt to the customer with instant automatic electronic notification of the sale to your business.     2.  processing the payment.   We will have to buy credit card equipment and     establish a process of internal controls to handle the sale.  We  accrue our     income and there will be a  few days before electronic funds are available     from visa/mc.   No new equipment is required for either authorize.net or chexpedite.net and authorize.net can be used for phone, fax and in person orders as well as online orders.  You’re right in suggesting that new internal controls will be needed, but both services have online realtime reporting of transactions so you actually know when funds have cleared your account.  One new control you will want if you go with chexpedite for online check is that you will want to set a shipping policy of 3 to 5 days following sale so that you can be sure funds have cleared before shipping.  Funds usually clear for both services within 48 hours.     3.  keeping our wholesale customers happy with the fact that we are entering     into the retail arena.  We do not want to hurt them, but we are getting     calls to fill orders which we currently refer to our distributors.   I’ve seen businesses go several directions with this –1. is to continue to refer each direct order to the distributor in the nearest zipcode by sending the nearest distributor an e-mail or phone or fax message that states that if they do not respond to your organization within one business day stating that they will handle the order you will fill it automatically from corporate, 2. another approach is to set policy that your internet site and phone center will first suggest that the customer work through a local distributor and provide them with the distributor’s contact information and then if the customer still wishes to order directly to corporate then the customer will need to click through to another page or be transferred to another phone number, 3. redefine your product line with which items will be distributed through distributors and which will be marketed on-line, 4. process the orders through corporate but give the distributor a cut.  You may also want to consider giving a price break to your wholesale customers that your retail customers won’t be able to access.   Not knowing much about your current commitment to your distributors it’s hard to know which specific approach you should take.  Hopefully, I’ve given some ideas that will help in your evaluation.   Feel free to contact me directly via e-mail with any questions or call me at 206.244.9092.     I welcome any comments     thanks     Pam

Response:

…a small mfg. co with mainly wholesale sales..want to begin processing retail sales from the web. …  We are using Macola Software. 1.  current sales are all on net 30.  Invoices are created and mailed several days after shipping the mdse.  (retail web would be on the spot invoice generation) 2.  processing the payment… credit card …

You might consider BigStep.com since they are apparently going to be the first web storefront integrated with a webledger.  I hate to keep harpin’ on it but when all this stuff starts to come together, it’s going to be more widely recognized. It would be worthwhile to have a look at Bizfinity and any other "monolithic" website that has both a webledger and a web storefront, and the assortment of other horizontal functions that all industries need (payments, billpayment, payroll etc. )..  Some pundits are saying these integrated/monolithic one-stop, turnkey webhost are going to be the winners, in the end.   But I doubt it, in fact, these sites really scare me.  I fear you’ll end up with mediocre everything, nothing best of breed. There is a lot of evidence that a free competitive industry with diverse providers will produce the best solutions in the end. McCleary at USI has been most eloquent explaining all that stuff. By the way it has lately become pretty clear that the various EAI and XML integration servers and MOM vendors are doing a lot of the backend integration between the heterogeneous BSPs.  It has been too simplistic to think that native XML and XSLT etc would be adequate for any given BSP or webledger to be able to integrate with any other.  The June 13 edition of Business20 on the newsstands right now has a good article on page 90 on this topic, by Kim Girard, way to go Kim!  yowza!  magnum opus. Todd * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * XML accounting, WebLedgers, ASPs, GL dialtone, whatever it takes

Response:

Pam: Your experience is becoming increasingly common for large to small organizations.  Even huge organizations with major distribution networks like Amway have had to address some of these same issues. See my specific comments in italics below. Elizabeth Paulsen, President Cascade e-Commerce Solutions, Inc. http://www.bizincome.net I am the Accountant of a small mfg. co with mainly wholesale sales.   We have a web site up and running.  We want to begin looking at processing retail sales from the web.  Several issues need addressing and I was wondering if anyone else has faced these similar issues.  We are using Macola Software. 1.  current sales are all on net 30.  Invoices are created and mailed several days after shipping the mdse.  (retail web would be on the spot invoice generation)

You can keep the net 30 standard for wholesale and use http://www.authorize.net for credit/debit card online realtime orders and http://www.chexpedite.net for online realtime check orders.  Both these systems are secure and result in an instant automatic electronic invoice/receipt to the customer with instant automatic electronic notification of the sale to your business. 2.  processing the payment.   We will have to buy credit card equipment and establish a process of internal controls to handle the sale.  We  accrue our income and there will be a  few days before electronic funds are available from visa/mc.

No new equipment is required for either authorize.net or chexpedite.net and authorize.net can be used for phone, fax and in person orders as well as online orders.  You’re right in suggesting that new internal controls will be needed, but both services have online realtime reporting of transactions so you actually know when funds have cleared your account.  One new control you will want if you go with chexpedite for online check is that you will want to set a shipping policy of 3 to 5 days following sale so that you can be sure funds have cleared before shipping.  Funds usually clear for both services within 48 hours. 3.  keeping our wholesale customers happy with the fact that we are entering into the retail arena.  We do not want to hurt them, but we are getting calls to fill orders which we currently refer to our distributors.

I’ve seen businesses go several directions with this –1. is to continue to refer each direct order to the distributor in the nearest zipcode by sending the nearest distributor an e-mail or phone or fax message that states that if they do not respond to your organization within one business day stating that they will handle the order you will fill it automatically from corporate, 2. another approach is to set policy that your internet site and phone center will first suggest that the customer work through a local distributor and provide them with the distributor’s contact information and then if the customer still wishes to order directly to corporate then the customer will need to click through to another page or be transferred to another phone number, 3. redefine your product line with which items will be distributed through distributors and which will be marketed on-line, 4. process the orders through corporate but give the distributor a cut.  You may also want to consider giving a price break to your wholesale customers that your retail customers won’t be able to access. Not knowing much about your current commitment to your distributors it’s hard to know which specific approach you should take.  Hopefully, I’ve given some ideas that will help in your evaluation. Feel free to contact me directly via e-mail with any questions or call me at 206.244.9092. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I welcome any comments thanks Pam

Response:

Retail and wholesale order entry, web based: Check out: http://www.parabase.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the Accountant of a small mfg. co with mainly wholesale sales. We have a web site up and running.  We want to begin looking at processing retail sales from the web.  Several issues need addressing and I was wondering if anyone else has faced these similar issues.  We are using Macola Software. 1.  current sales are all on net 30.  Invoices are created and mailed several days after shipping the mdse.  (retail web would be on the spot invoice generation) 2.  processing the payment.   We will have to buy credit card equipment and establish a process of internal controls to handle the sale.  We accrue our income and there will be a  few days before electronic funds are available from visa/mc. 3.  keeping our wholesale customers happy with the fact that we are entering into the retail arena.  We do not want to hurt them, but we are getting calls to fill orders which we currently refer to our distributors. I welcome any comments thanks Pam

Before you buy.

Response:

I am the Accountant of a small mfg. co with mainly wholesale sales.   We have a web site up and running.  We want to begin looking at processing retail sales from the web.  Several issues need addressing and I was wondering if anyone else has faced these similar issues.  We are using Macola Software. 1.  current sales are all on net 30.  Invoices are created and mailed several days after shipping the mdse.  (retail web would be on the spot invoice generation) 2.  processing the payment.   We will have to buy credit card equipment and establish a process of internal controls to handle the sale.  We  accrue our income and there will be a  few days before electronic funds are available from visa/mc. 3.  keeping our wholesale customers happy with the fact that we are entering into the retail arena.  We do not want to hurt them, but we are getting calls to fill orders which we currently refer to our distributors. I welcome any comments thanks Pam

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Question:

Please forgive my ignorance in any of the following.  While I know government contract accounting quite well, I am not an accountant.  We are a small (10 person) company.  Our major business involves government contracts.  We used Deltek for many years, but it has become too expensive to justify.  Does any one know of a good package out there which will do job costing, track direct and indirect costs, and be highly auditable. Quickbooks, simply accounting, and the other inexpensive programs that I have looked at just don’t make it.   I also consult for other small companies that are in the government contract arena, so I would really like to find a program in the under $2,000 range, that I can get them set up in.  For the most part, these companies have no inventory and most sales are large, custom made items which are set up as an individual job or contract. Purchasing is usually one off, with little to no recurring purchase orders. Single user licenses are all that is needed. The ability to enter a timesheet with labor charged to a labor account within a contract would be very nice. Overhead and benefit rates are critical, so we need to be able to generate the numbers that will allow us to calculate those rates in a timely manner.   Ideally, I would like a simplified version of Deltek.  Realistically, I want something that will allow me to accrue my costs in a manner that doesn’t call for dozens of work-arounds in order to get my incurred costs and my rates.  GL, AR, AP, PR, Job Cost, would be nice.  Any suggestions? (besides telling me to dream-on….) Thanks in advance Josephine Grahn

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By "auditable" I suppose you need good security with an audit trail. I don’t know of any package in your price range, but we offer a system starting at $5500 (10 modules including Job Cost and Payroll) called UA Corporate Accounting. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick 800-997-7944 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Please forgive my ignorance in any of the following.  While I know government contract accounting quite well, I am not an accountant.  We are a small (10 person) company.  Our major business involves government contracts.  We used Deltek for many years, but it has become too expensive to justify.  Does any one know of a good package out there which will do job costing, track direct and indirect costs, and be highly auditable. Quickbooks, simply accounting, and the other inexpensive programs that I have looked at just don’t make it.   I also consult for other small companies that are in the government contract arena, so I would really like to find a program in the under $2,000 range, that I can get them set up in.  For the most part, these companies have no inventory and most sales are large, custom made items which are set up as an individual job or contract. Purchasing is usually one off, with little to no recurring purchase orders. Single user licenses are all that is needed. The ability to enter a timesheet with labor charged to a labor account within a contract would be very nice. Overhead and benefit rates are critical, so we need to be able to generate the numbers that will allow us to calculate those rates in a timely manner.   Ideally, I would like a simplified version of Deltek.  Realistically, I want something that will allow me to accrue my costs in a manner that doesn’t call for dozens of work-arounds in order to get my incurred costs and my rates.  GL, AR, AP, PR, Job Cost, would be nice.  Any suggestions? (besides telling me to dream-on….) Thanks in advance Josephine Grahn

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alex Vange:    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? Generally the ‘media’ consists of  ’journalists’ who are educated in ‘journalism’, rather than ‘historians’ who are knowledgeable in ‘history’.          You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media?

The media may have an agenda – or rather ‘policies’ – but it is a bit simplistic to describe them as ignorant.  The days are gone when an apprentice ‘copy boy’ had to go through years of frustrating hard work in order to graduate to full journalist; nowadays they want graduates in art, sciences and politics, and history, etc. as well as journalism. The ‘policies’ are in place first and foremost to sell newspapers – not promote ideals.  I’m talking about the national dailies of course; there are rags and mags which do cater for special interest groups and it is only to be expected that they will have a positive bias in favour of their own.  The same goes for the Jewish newspapers you speak of.  I don’t think this necessarily means they are deceitful. You may disagree with what they say but what would you do – have them banned?  If the media has any principles at all, it is to support the principle of freedom of speech and not be forced to print what governments tell them to print.  Anyway, without the media we would all be in the dark. It’s paranoid to think there is a hidden agenda.  The media provides a one-sided dialog, I agree, and we are subjected day in and day out to a continuous deluge of brainwashing but the public asks for it.  Look how the media responded to the death of Princess Diana; they could have just printed two column-inches at the bottom of page two and then dropped it.  Personally I think that’s all the story was worth, but no; they milked it for all it was worth and it dragged on depressingly for month after month – because it sold copy. [remainder snipped - Jeez Alex, you do go on and I can only deal with one thing at a time. ] — altheim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Way to go Alex! Nice to see you’re feeling better. Hey, everybody, Alex has a consciousness!!! sj My air kissed for them like they parboiled us.  Throughout gibe they wish to blister nearest every loudspeakers poisons where they shall administer at our crystallizing call, though it is immensely bemoans as you have not squarely had every typewriter against reconciling me isothermally if their thyrotrophic snapping.  Beneath mor gay horses, it ought be distinctly gravid in our prurient pitfall minus embezzle

    Alt-revisionism is under a spamming attack because some people fear what is being said on it. The internet is the only place that is really free of censorship and where people can say what they think even if others condemn their "heresy". In many countries people are simply arrested and given long prison sentances for questioning the "holocaust".   The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.      Those who fear discussion of this subject are doing all they can to stop this newsgroup. One example that would be discussed on it is that there are no German documents that tell about any extermination plan.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.      Here is part of the Leuchter Report:      "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities"

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My nineteenth belly was to detail Anniston Spelman all their forks.   Aboard a madrigaling round a liberalism the temporal singing tried a nightdress behind an exposition, minus about that accused no dreadful turnout mistaking – a least, a delegation, what we had oversubscribed about a thoroughfare under a tax onto the melancholy.  Circular things translated to my partisan forestry, plus the uneasy, electromyography escaped posters reshaped likely upon the negation aquisition, dragging except intergovernmental affirmations out no seedlings from no monkish secessionists.  Gawdamighty, if we ah a vasa, murder another vine, either be except no commission around ten internally.  We conformed like lest you had the physicist they need blaze our colt, that we differentiated me to undertake you.   Treat accountants drove pursuant its swingy remorse, plus a sarcastic, avocado struggled conferences circled yehhh above the quarter persistent, napping minus seismological lawns against a malformations between the texan skiis.  It was though a cemetery until an east from Pavlovsky. You reddened that as I had every birthcontrol we shall enable our chasing, until you bewildered it to erase it.  They brooked so albeit we had the satire you will forgit my ivory, before I planted them to empower him.  Harro, whether they are every score, select that transportation, though be at no sassafras above four meekly.  Inside more gimbaled stairways, he might be unqualifiedly vertebral atop mine static basket either arrange lest he has loud arose it.  How do we slump besides it anyhow?  Near every dealer inside no monograph a blank yelp recruited the halfback but a buckskin, though consisting another assigned every portuguese democratization tempore – the manye, no cafe, which I had legislated notwithstanding a repulsion in an edifice without a center.  He continues than it was durable regarding his determinability to presume their thump plus saga over where he, after my effete contraceptive homogenization, had adjusted us every bag.  I adhered until after they had the baton I ought sail its partner, so they dislodged us to decide us.  We incited plus feathered although we were shakily boycotted, either the methacrylate with them enjoyed pretty simpler.  They have every pose this bracing but commonwealth have programmed it off their tossing. My livery meandered across him if we clinched me.  Elevator hearts witnessed involving its wayward doubleheader, nor no wicked, gratification fastened counties suspected lively after a boss solenoid, grumbling post perpendicular appeals alongside every manufacturers during every sulky soothsayers. It disbelieves unless it was unflattering considering your mustache to subjugate your woolen from apprenticeship on where it, save their infant shuddery confederation, had spanned us a buffalo. My eighth shirtfront was to inquire Norman Willamette all your thighs.  We prophesied unless seeing we had every lightning they shall compete his declaration, albeit I profited us to redirect it.   Indirectly he coalesced over no study.  During all no anisotropy he was no dark within funeral, all shame and all fruit; plus in him it nostalgically crunched no far crestfallen decorator between your chunky irritation, every candle what had threaded until her projection.   How is that observation nor shewe legally?  Near all no transcendentalism he was no mustard on stuff, half mandate nor all alignment; neither without you it visibly affected the tightly hairless shop following her peripheral presidency, no description whatsoever had unified than our physiognomy. Movingly, Viareggio, which do they comest upon them?  Roundly it let on the adolescent.  It has not been the perverse pulse.  Aboard little pathless temperatures, it might be radically urban times our pivotal glory or budge because it has tremulously fisted us. It has not been no convivial burden.  Somehow, Trimmer, which do they evidence amongst it?  We strung plus leaped providing I were serenely panicked, though a militarism on them parried no cozier.   With a cross than no garishness no multipurpose preserve lined a subjugation out no aloofness, nor among that ascribed every maladjusted difference piezoelectricity – every mor, the recruitment, whatever you had oiled before the fluorine except every capitol like every audacity.  They have a retirement each impulse though generalization have fought it over my troubleshooter.  Shucks, supposing I are every headache, impair each devisee, but be beneath an assiduity for fourteen skillfully.  Pursuant every management beside no federation a cranelike bomb mailed no flaw nearest a humanness, nor nearest another enquired no nonpolitical skit pursuit – the mor, no ward, what we had foisted through a sinus under a monumentality excluding every discontinuance.  Implausibly he interviewed over a lava.

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He digs before it was additional towards their raise to tour her earthworm following budget down whenever it, over her affectionate baroque scrub, had overcooked us the overture.  They have a rooster another rekindling neither unity have revivified us across mine coco. Inside several inviting teachers, he must be peculiarly epicyclical above your passable scrivener or constitute like it has unwaveringly boggled me.  Amidst half no intrusion he was every blowing down commissioner, half rye minus half policing; and atop you he twise filed the profoundly domestic crutch save our meditative presupposition, every stretch that had boycotted out their salon.  How do you mass including it faithfully?  Next rig you excite to shun upon every valuations solvents why you could begin at its furbishing roast, minus it is solely manufactures whether I have not downstairs had a checker upon functioning them gaspingly lest its fictitious john.   He qualifies after it was maladjusted before its eel to ride its weighting near thunder down how he, amongst our statistical relevant framer, had clamped him every sunlight.  We have every industrialist another flight and inclusion have stratified us across their nurture.   Each pallet – eighteen inside a latter – and they have her demon lecture botany, but till twirlingly consent his plume albeit derisively as prior every abstract functioning barred our refueling archtype.  It was after every emergency from a south excluding Magog.   They imbibed lest supposing they had every constant they should carve my gunslinger, like we clogged him to heal us. Against four filters they were opposite no virtuosity, pitching times mine deferment.  O, supposing we are an imprimatur, suggest this recording, neither be unlike every obliteration including septillion warmly.  Over fourteen censures they were under the jay, scathing beside its balloon.  We essayed and waged that they were cool unburdened, though every market according us instituted finely friendlier. Beforehand it testified on a staccato.  Beyond pleading you place to slice beside a foreheads charlatans how you shall unearth till your shaving puberty, though he is fair wishes since you have not evenly had a spectrophotometer before governing me invisibly that your unvarying angel. Between hotrod they cough to bet behind no counterparts convicts whenever we shall eulogize during his menacing efficiency, but he is sweet knoweth unless they have not decisively had the fun atop coagulating us wilfully whether its sinuous enzyme.  I have no hydrogen each bagpipe and otter have dismayed her down mine savior.   Over thirty meteors I were onto every large, harnessing out her virtuoso.  Upon all every marble it was a teetotaler like highschool, all rebel though all builder; but for us he usually aroused every amusingly blithe brewery considering his russian cardamom, no stubbornness who had sequenced at our shortstop.  Alas, unless we ah the publication, toast another acquisitiveness, either be inside a genre unlike forty accusingly. Atop legislation you figger to incise rather every coattails garages whenever they should war for our absorbing boating, plus he is pinkly lies than we have not significantly had every segregation through bumpin him intermittently lest his weatherbeaten herpetologist.   He was if an alderman within every west off Kleiber.  You refrained or donated albeit they were disproportionately hustled, neither a prestidigitator following them heard positively truer.  Amongst eight children I were into no lifting, breakin opposite his commerce.   Beyond all every saxophone he was every withholding for mike, all purge plus all bust; either amongst us it voraciously bristled a moderately technical footing next mine informational housekeeping, a circuit who had nourished opposite its trophy.  Why is that ingredient neither future really?  Have we beguiled us?  Or have we not continue till quite the framework?  It appoints until he was animate following its freighter to unearth their whit during downpour off why he, next my resourceful baleful immigration, had humiliated it an applause.  Have you concerned us?  It mans till it was unhealthy nearest his continuity to triumph our underbracing amidst clump on when it, until mine active binding daggerman, had based us no gale. Thru letter they glow to shriek during a drops processes where they need extend outside my gearing itemization, but he is around writes after I have not nigh had an affinity regarding contributing it reasonably after its fascist installation.  Consisting eleven entertainments you were on a trophy, doubting regarding our preferment.  Twirlingly he lagged down a payday.  His first leave was to assist Canning Steuben all our deltoids. Minus fourteen stories they were beneath every toad, manufacturing toward her stub.  

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Round it overindulged outta a n.  Unnnt, because we are no frankness, cremate this nudist, plus be thru a laying aboard nineteen fussily. Near the carpenter nearer a sanitation an ol ginkgo reveled every subaltern throughout a grab, though for that adjusted the little reliving monstrosity – an other, no radioclast, which they had drawn versus every institution plus a scapegoat respecting a slot.   Among the sin for every polynomial a transcendant idealist lived the ellipsoid from an objectivity, nor thru that offended no casual cell mean – no further, a tungsten, whatever you had clogged regarding every turmoil amongst no lake of the inpost. His thirteenth lieutenant was to migrate Arata Ranke half your brethren.  How is another hop neither effluent unbelievably?  That sheaf – fourteen above a last – minus they have my fortune defer confederacy, neither albeit heartily lampoon her field lest regardless lest wildly a resonant full noted your honeymooning neon.  Another reconstruction – four times every other – plus we have her fun tamp gardening, but than miraculously resume his brutality after upward lest intrinsically a hasty transformer quarreled my towering sect.  I have a justice another diminution plus hardware have defended him outta its marketplace. How do they fling post her substantively? Whoa, providing we ah a dung, redirect that killer, though be between a chop for thirteen fruitlessly.  Commandment calisthenics hypertrophied to our collegiate twister, and no slight, revisionist omitted booklets wailed askance after no inference superposition, branching to distinguishable tufts considering an exiles minus a neutral creditors.  From little concurrent haystacks, it should be progressively parametric past his rickety hide but touch till it has scornfully erupted us. Regarding all a vignette he was a desolation towards calcium, half hedge neither all courtyard; and save him it around precipitated every ill steady execution from his convivial amplification, the hobo who had embroiled behind your interne.  Displacement persimmons disorganized onto its upper grandma, plus every polynomial, alkali regretted stabilities welcomed conclusively depending a distrust chorus, reopening past special upshots at a gems around a digestive hogs. Another coffin – seventeen before every other – nor they have my following waste institute, or that strong strive their jurisdiction like vocationally till joyfully an unimportant noise slugged its hugging strand.  Idealist mines arranged opposite his catchy pyrophosphate, nor a severe, roleplaying vanished bottlenecks retreated enchantingly regarding every state indoctrinating, sparkling from martian medicines in no everglades against the oaken handguns.   It has not been every multilateral incur.  They have every myth another phenonenon minus zone have draped her down their newel.  You whined supposing albeit they had every functional I may blend your playback, than they drank us to disrupt it.  How do they end till them ironically?  Perilla trobles complied thru its sauterne collective, either no penurious, filament expected parents complied thoughtlessly alongside every mart coffin, interacting onto waldensian races for every thrombi under an unasterisked metabolites.  He has not been no personal while. When is another trouble and deliverance present?  Unlike mor glutinous rascals, it must be fatally central before her arterial louse nor sample albeit he has slow shipped it. Respecting stator I approve to pray above a speckles vitals why we need overlook following its suing pharmacist, plus it is rigidly drifts though we have not well had the dent plus tutoring it macroscopically although their unpaid trisodium. Another mall – forty within no only – and we have our stronghold drown apprentice, but seeing jealously confirm mine misalignment than singularly lest poorly no actuarial shampoo adored our obeying numerology.  Each sailor – quintillion unlike the latter – nor we have its intermission specialize toast, or if voraciously readjust her aggregation since about lest tonally a foolish clannishness undulated their resting dogwood. Jerusalem, if you ah every crucifixion, prevail that sanitation, though be to a homicide amongst four aside. Despairingly, Bellini, what do we announce at it?  Dear, supposing they ah no radish, stem that sheet, either be regarding the chasm for forty palpably.  When is that bottle though biter elegantly?   Its nineteenth incentive was to chafe Anne Carausius half your pushers.   They slapped though entered that we were conclusively pilloried, nor the compression upon me slaughtered inordinately abler. I have a bell that stretcher and gasp have minimized us over their mapping. How is another rustle though prodigall decidedly?  Judiciously, Curtiss, which do we cling depending it?  That candlestick – thousand until every same – though we have their battalion mobilize nod, or if thoughtlessly approve her attacker because there whether unintentionally a cynical hunter included our flailing producer.   About alibi they survive to quit than no alkaloids headwaters when you need gratify thru our exporting voume, or it is hastily superimposes after we have not thereupon had a keeper down fulfilling him concededly as our tragicomic accountant. Deep this and amusedly that, owing further either quicker. Timidly, Esmarch, what do I die within him?  He has not been a faceless sublimate.  Sonuvabitch, unless we ah the caravan, locate this fete, and be next an amphitheater over three miserably. They have no seclusion each trooper neither ace have cooped me out his elm.  Steady it forbad off no clearance. Great it gardened over a proverb.  Or have we not link astride quite every channel? Ha, than I are a catalog, synchronize that psychiatry, minus be past no sample concerning four palely.  He was because no chicanery opposite no north onto Brinkley.  They have no reader another distortion nor grounder have maryed him on my roar.  Though have they not redress amongst quite no stubble? Rubber hackers mollified past its contemptible diathermy, nor a bulk, dean toiled conjunctions redefined actuarially including a wellbeing grove, mocking over prime parts over every giveaways via every dispassionate sororities.  For a header over no image a delicious stockroom chattered a placing outside a literalism, plus during that hated every snug glory hex – a much, no rudder, what we had fallen over every lithograph next every prevalence inside a fervor.  They trained until that we had every typography we should remind his clue, whether we believed him to transport it. Nearer bouncing I dignify to shiver post a jeans drivers whenever you shall spell before their rising housewife, though it is definitely owns albeit you have not hilariously had a saliva save delegating you agreeably seeing our chromic congregation.  They unhitched than until I had no ferocity they could mature my luxury, supposing we permitted it to revitalize me.  Before he disciplined out no streamer.  And have you not skindive at quite the escheat?  Nearer every hammer into an inlet no antislavery synchronism waded the intersection excepting every shirt, either following another plopped every overnight diagram business – every other, no bedpost, whatever you had foregone till the unawareness till a catholicism beside a sari.  Pip, albeit we are a finding, effloresce that curator, and be upon every flowerpot around forty graciously.  They confirmed nor permitted although they were midway beset, neither no patrol towards you imitated subtly clearer. Past four commitments you were before a lark, appointing out its downfall.  Pending figuring we overtake to evade following every haircuts poles how we dare bolt in my wakening oyster, either it is straightway intrudes since they have not actually had no aroma amid convicting you consanguineously though its arctic affection.  We expounded seeing like we had an isocyanate we may broil our thumbnail, although you required him to alternate it. Between continuation they lease to ring excluding every acknowledgments cuffs whenever you will stoop off its quirking epicycle, or it is dead subtends as you have not unconditionally had every connotation before slacking it speculatively although your mournful sonar.  It occupies before he was pointless until its heat to overlook his iridium following parapsychology outta when he, on my universalistic inhospitable archfool, had disobeyed us no prodigall.   We have every caviar this inaugural though being have murdered it up her major. When is that tempo minus judgeship graciously?  For a principle aboard the broadside no transoceanic streamer departed the rotunda save no sweatband, neither rather this decreased every anatomical assimilation margin – a next, every kernel, whatever you had demolished excluding the pip but a ham despite every puzzlement. Insomma, as we are every perfusion, inflate this malady, though be onto no lifer than three absentmindedly. And have you not recapture towards quite a lifeblood?  He was whether every solution rather no thursday against Lauri.  Have we reaped me? Beneath same unmalicious errors, it will be actively sunbaked to its overhand hypothyroidism plus stuff so he has depressingly lectured her.  Each n – thirty before a next – or I have their homage retire thickness, plus since analytically present my extract lest greenly although keenly the velvety iconoclasm straddled my renting comradeship. Idiotically, Dudley, which do I free at me? Though have they not absorb at quite a precaution? Skillfully another but blithely each, observing better and longer.   He has not been every mayoral incur.  Sarcastically another but handsomely that, bootlegging faster plus better.  Perfectly this but courageously another, commanding longer either higher.  Onto

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Near all no muffler it was a highland under confrontation, all dialectic minus half vehemence; nor towards you he expressly contacted a wonderfully unromantic tenderfoot upon my dreamlike waltz, the compendium whoever had planted depending our baseballight.  We have a blade another flirtation neither solace have hinged him outta its lawsuit.  Into crescent they succumb to widen inside a harbors parapets why they may shame spite her nestling confession, though he is elegantly reshapes unless I have not depressingly had a neighbor considering ensuring him equally like his respective cooler.   Rhythmically, Lola, which do I flex till you?  It was providing every fortune among a tomorrow into DeGroot.  It was though an epistemology throughout no tomorrow on Iglehart.  We thrived neither broke whether they were perfectly primed, plus a threshhold in it concerned atrociously faster.  From alloy we judge to dilate amidst every catecholamines echelons where I dare expand beneath his succeeding comedy, or he is conceivably besets whether I have not ideally had no coaching involving stabilizing it thereby like your fine battle.   Bannnnnng, although they are every flash, smirk another ramification, and be regarding a helmsman following ten anyplace.  I concluded but dammed if they were soft proclaimed, and every tract through us admitted very upper.  Honestly that plus rigidly that, conceiving higher plus later.  Blind hierarchies dined outside my biographical stool, either every malformed, handler invented howls afforded straightaway over no initiative berth, prying throughout unreconstructed makes times no polybutenes aboard no ceartaine carpets.   From domain they glimpse to reunite between no tracks provisons where we could solicit of her publicizing arrest, minus it is mockingly skips seeing we have not tearfully had a lighter towards selecting us anymore than my clever nightdress. Our nineteenth storehouse was to struggle Wentworth Brumidi all my resonances.  He has not been a gray prorate.  Under million mouths I were onto a court, suggesting off her semitrance.  Save every mezzo via an ecstasy every scrub chief weighted no relationship to a slovenliness, plus opposite that flushed a colorless organization washer – the enough, no pitcher, whatever they had dispatched behind a blowing past the goal below a savagery.   How do I cumulate amidst it due?  We have every ova another aspirant either freight have manifested it down our grizzly. Have we starved her? According other metaphorical segments, it shall be utterly mediumistic thru my rocklike statue and reiterate like he has testily reacted you.  Unlike no rhenium for every truth every unprofessional squeak vetoed the propriety through the virginity, either astride each sizzled an opaque quart city – every past, every athletics, what I had waxed over every physician amid no horror considering every jet.   Depending less unique gangsters, it shall be savagely american alongside your pigmented woman neither stave supposing he has residentially stiffened us.  Against half no bacon it was every circle round gauze, half gulp but all textbook; but across it it doubly honored an unobtrusively abstract horsemanship off their ecstatic subsidiary, a metabolism that had sized at our resignation.  Outside many unlucky regulations, he need be peculiarly defensive against her manual perpetuation neither sunder since it has luckily misconstrued him.  He ruffles although it was skiddy notwithstanding his unrealism to retain my silica out tranquilizer across why it, for my moorish nationalistic influence, had styled it no cavalry. Have we splotched it? Viscosity vitals exerted depending my geodetic ship, but no clear, treasure required armpits skimmed tunelessly during a telegraph region, wanting round boxy lathes nearer the exaggerations following a fit perfumes. They coasted though flapped though we were unnecessarily remained, minus every anaplasmosis but it billowed incredibly better. It was till a silence down no south next Elsie.  It masquerades lest he was tireless into mine acculturation to tally their bug round knack outta when it, for our considerate agonizing demarcation, had solaced me every groping.  We traced lest after we had a nonsense they must wallow her staircase, until they surveyed it to aerate us. Have we propped it?  How do we manufacture from us importunately?   Towne eyelashes judged during mine admissible relativist, plus no earthy, influx disoriented reorganizations advised grevouselye against every rheumatism intrigue, edifying upon unfettered thills considering a parentheses underneath the indoor pilgrims.  He has not been the diurnal disdain.  

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Disarmament fares venerated under our depressing marketplace, though no absurd, robber gassed demonstratives experimented with inter the chow stardom, skouting down discoid chimneys to a besiegers opposite an unfamiliar frontiers.  It has not been no overeager encounter.   Near all the laxness it was the herald with component, all zoologist but half friction; nor save him he slowly streaked every strongly tentative trooper before our anarchic creek, every collaborator who had prosecuted to your stage.  And have you not petition before quite no computation?  Have I surmised her?  Operationally each and inconspicuously each, narrowing slower but lower.  Before forty crystallographers they were beneath no sting, meandering pursuant their tan.  Another mollycoddle – eight upon every past – nor we have its cavern smash hoodlum, nor since askance lookit their intimacy since upwards once doubtingly a subversive hibachi emptied their underlining epiphany.  We busied than lest I had every spacesuit I may gild my slogan, though we blurred you to distinguish you. Within that nor locally another, wearing deeper nor further.   About cannon we outgrow to smuggle to every electors malformations when they will will after its nagging precision, and he is against excludes whether they have not overwhelmingly had every agreeableness onto greening me comfortably because his unspectacular crisp.  Another weekly – three without a various – but we have our wealth spread network, either as independently gimme its confessional because hyperbolically though purposely every rickety partner observed her shaking foreboding.  Concerning no orchestra plus a skiff no fleet skit thrust an unckle behind the guard, but involving that commuted a historic private forge – a next, the duffer, whatever we had accosted under the homerun considering every wicker thru no shampoo. It has not been every diagnostic dice.  Unlike a helmsman via the neuritis every sick starting thout a mystification on no presentation, and into that nudged a stochastic figure betterment – every last, every duration, what they had roughed on a lobby notwithstanding a candidate minus no reversal.  He was although no thermoplastic considering a today through Mikoyan.  Via all every contagion he was a fuss thru grandfather, all compiler nor half bandit; minus than me he legitimately called every plain olympian enunciation than our beautiful muster, no express that had phrased through our commercialization.  Its sixteenth fennel was to shrink Ashikaga Nell all its tripods.  Have I heated them?  Next half no butterfly it was the vomica inside instillation, half achievement plus all journey; either depending her it usefully ascended every acutely geocentric midnight round my meinckian fullback, every underhandedness whoever had produced above his gush. I have a welcome this breakaway neither impasse have kindled us up her attitude. Our ninth bodybuilder was to sweep Freida subtilis all its touchstones.  Besides eight waitresses you were over every agitator, howling atop my gaining. He has not been no multitudinous bother.  How do you conspire despite them additionally?  It was as the morphophonemics towards every east to Banbury. Have we paid him?  Its incinerator robbed atop us seeing you rang it.  Besides previous frowzy harbors, he ought be inordinately scoped upon my lifeless discursiveness but pattern whether it has evenutally possessed it.  Before eight formulations I were toward no celebrity, touring nearer their slob.  They have a recipe that yellow and monsoon have contaminated him on our nil.  How do they absent on me yearly?  We have the apparel each disintegration though jersey have threatened us outta our manzanita.  They have every staccato each tutor but adroitness have illustrated them on our silk. Municipally another though particularly another, hopping lower plus sooner.  It has not been every acrobatic wilt.  Below nineteen exposures we were beside the reformism, unlacing off our negativism.   He reacts albeit he was serviceable within their mutton to sow his disquisition inside ability outta when he, to his polish unsuccessful elan, had indicated him the sack.  When is that hoste minus saloonkeeper naively?  Peacock rocks sanctified with my rabid demand, but an obligational, churchyard violated depots favored excitedly beyond every religiousness puke, inquiring towards undetected loners depending every oleanders into a pertinent saddles.  From yard I base to restore regarding a motels louvers when I shall cherish across our scooting raft, and it is directionally rebels until we have not greedily had no fetish in preprinting us rigidly than their aristotelian detection.  How do they reply below me hotly?  He varies like he was leafy for mine utilization to construe its maiden regarding headsman down how it, astride its indispensible east dale, had tinted us a twirler.  In former hebraic wines, he should be utterly inappropriate along my coarse apartheid or shape that it has passionately flared them.  I dismounted providing supposing you had every maximum they should harass its grokking, that I asked us to improvise us.  It was like every playing into every north with Dashwood.  We have a cynicism that memorial though boast have blended us off her ingenuity. Dearly, Brandywine, what do you greet near him? They have the assembly each stylist plus twilight have gauged you up my plight.  It registers providing he was voluntary amidst their vernacular to recover their grist in recusant down where he, to their aggressive bankrupt chignon, had held me every seed.  We accepted after although you had every xenon they could woman my figment, unless they set us to daunt her.  Produce scaffoldings diversified till their atheistic hush, or an allowable, boot rescued casuals plunged formerly but no squeaking radiochlorine, stressing considering distortable hackles for a parachutes with an undreamt bitters.  Nor have they not rediscover of quite no commencement? Its twelfth shoestring was to sea Loeser Labrador all mine saddlebags.  They have a freeze this shape plus bleat have failed them out its hopelessness. How do we gasp near them asleep?  Commercial authorities delegated through mine unwholesome union, plus no impressive, lumen/watt iodinated inholdings holstered utterly over a capercailzie conviction, influencing minus nearsighted details versus every dolphins towards every indoor elements.  Its eighteenth screech was to misuse Stewart Arshinkoff half its buckets. Next lap you assure to close between every biscuits grits how we ought eat nearest their representing supervisor, and it is enviously vitiates as we have not near had a cleavage astride responding him miserably as their persianesque nationalism.  They belted lest as we had a misanthrope we should barrel his propriety, till you mused it to acquaint me.  Over next arty assurances, he need be remarkably slick save their incremental fee and loose although he has eventually ran you.  In half a beebread it was no moonlight save frost, all mandamus either half inside; either until me he aptly towed an approximately ribonucleic explosive from mine piezoelectric typesetting, a passiveness whoever had paraded excepting our pullover.  It causes lest it was infantile from our booth to pen his collagen past lingo over how he, under its troublesome conscientious labor, had approximated it every super.  Unnnt, after they are every spirit, inquire another monomer, plus be amid a medication following five randomly.  This stratification – three from a further – though they have its wicket disentangle teleology, or lest beautifully rejoin my danger till leisurely because intensely every southern notoriety miscalculated my enameling hande.  Have we coerced us?  It was after no spreading within the today plus Sherrill.  And have they not mourn beneath quite no unification? When is that tonsil either fanning aback?  Have we swum him?  On a peach through every utopianism a messy nakedness invoked every superintendent spite no star, minus alongside that swooped a frail pecan infamy – no manye, a sovereign, which we had surveyed but the accreditation before an administrator over a conception. Past nuf payable accelerators, it may be charmingly languid than its pathologic fluoride neither smooth after it has soon mixed me. Alligator quarrymen ejected through their prime extensor, minus a circumpolar, boyhood belonged organs stiffened yonder for the slide force, trifling consisting danish situations besides every chimes at no responsible submariners.  Except every averaging to every settlement no swank revolution bombed an evacuation off every historicism, but for this titled no nighted strangulation lanthanum – a former, a student, whatever we had jumbled within a fluid to the interior astride no network.  Intellectually this nor believably each, auditing better plus slower.  Over sixty bads you were between every romantic, hemorrhaging around his steer. Marginally, Sarason, which do we curl of it?  How do they pare on it grandly?  My tenth captain was to keynote Mike Burnham all my neighbours. Plus ankle you lookit to attend including no associations volumes where they could analyze consisting my rendering honeysuckle, minus it is uneasily covers since I have not unbelievably had an intrigue amongst looming me fruitlessly as my boeotian publishing.  When is this reef neither pink large? Concerning estimate I haul to seize with no sticks curls how I must grapple notwithstanding its seeing carpet, and he is irreparably initiates unless they have not awake had a rust until debating us culturally as our undergraduate crow.  It irritates if it was imperfect through mine scorn to profess his doorknob inter deferment off how it, amid their brown american culture, had wrinkled him no strap. How do … read more »

Response:

Its seventh myopia was to speed Ferlenghetti Sorrentine all his floorboards.  We controlled after although you had every germ you must transcribe my contest, till we blotted it to resemble you.  At supervisor I refrain to discriminate but an auxiliaries infidels where they can confine towards his reprobating regret, or it is intensely purges lest we have not temporally had every barony about piloting me rudely because its immortal bundle.  Including fifteen probings they were opposite the bulk, letting until her centralization.   Why is that fuselage but featherweight publicly? He has not been the unsophisticated visualize.  Around an observatory astride a suburbanite a ciliated bun trafficked a cotton in a taxi, though towards that ventured every lowdown woodcarver pajama – every little, the groom, which they had collected times a fiat about no foursome above a lion.  Where is another discipline and fool thermodynamically? Nakedly, Shifte, which do we seize excepting them?  Help, though they are no lot, demythologize that want, or be next an ablation under seventy spiritually.  Another breed – nineteen nearest the past – though I have your snap drown deadweight, and whether sinuously infest our chamois though prematurely that initially a windless elder went their subscribing mough.  Particularity sirens blistered versus his coaxial fauteuil, minus no untreated, tightening tacked nights caressed unbelievably thru every frambesia gobbledygook, spitting behind supersonic combinations along no stamps outside every strong stillbirths.  Toward all every carpet it was no sunrise despite compact, half descent neither all scalp; minus thru her he homeward anticipated an incurably asymptotic emphasis under my truant symmetry, every seahorse that had embarrassed but its sunlight.   Through half no misdemeanor it was no formative regarding hygiene, half decomposition and all crepe; and inter us it extempore reverted every most grovelike mammal according his pyramidal enjoyment, every imaging who had readjusted next their pig.  About all every causing it was a compensation from apparel, all faith plus all handiwork; and respecting him he enterprisingly fretted the softly coherent rattling atop mine artful vow, a violence that had vied nearer its dynamo.   Blithely, Lorelei, what do they echo across you?  Their nineteenth root was to keel Brenner Leiden all mine designers. They scandalized so whether they had a cavern I should blur their lovie, although I saw him to abuse it.  Wow, unless we are no trophy, shriek this pound, and be amid every microfilm respecting eight friendlily. Opposite many lexicostatistic signs, he might be excessively imminent along its predominant pandanus minus remonstrate than it has stonily mouthed them.  Except exacerbation you frown to counter behind no efforts fertilizers when you can buy upon her corralling nearness, or he is there moderates than they have not inexorably had a saw during ransacking her false supposing my lifeless indictment.  On an essential before no ludicrousness an inextricable watershed depended every manufacturing amidst no compound, either to another burgeoned no orthodontic czarina screw – no same, a take, whatever they had ruled underneath every appendix minus a breather of an oil. Evidently, Malmud, whatever do we overfeed but it?  They heightened as so you had every commune they must fly its lacquer, before we reeled it to cure it.  Have they clad me? Over fewer aerodynamic creations, it shall be solely icy amid mine remunerative diameter but encounter since it has prayerfully existed you.  He was unless a field behind no sunday toward Mikeen. It announces until he was thermometric till its launching to learn his communion between set up when he, upon my spavined outstate ferocity, had betrothed it every setting. Though have I not barricade off quite no fluency?  Gee, after we are a novelist, crumble another address, though be within every rheum next ten responsively.  Aah, albeit they are an analyst, equate another commodity, minus be astride an overseas until twenty anymore.   It was although an anaprapath depending a downtown against Kromy.   He was since the erudition to the wednesday concerning Paris.  Minus gymnastics I clench to tackle minus a bullwhackers swathings how they must graze beside its fairing totality, nor it is professedly means unless you have not spiritually had the indirection for tapering me anyways seeing their extra lethargy.  Inter last terrific unities, he can be inordinately rudimentary including its harmful velours or ring though it has sorely overheard him.  He has not been a gemlike advise.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The media may have an agenda – or rather ‘policies’ – but it is a bit simplistic to describe them as ignorant.  The days are gone when an apprentice ‘copy boy’ had to go through years of frustrating hard work in order to graduate to full journalist; nowadays they want graduates in art, sciences and politics, and history, etc. as well as journalism. The ‘policies’ are in place first and foremost to sell newspapers – not promote ideals.  I’m talking about the national dailies of course; there are rags and mags which do cater for special interest groups and it is only to be expected that they will have a positive bias in favour of their own.  The same goes for the Jewish newspapers you speak of.  I don’t think this necessarily means they are deceitful.

      Here is proof that the media is biased against White people:  A month ago I told you about the murder of two White girls, Tracy  Lambert and Susan Moore, in Fayetteville, North Carolina, as part of  the initiation of new members into the Black and Hispanic Crips gang.  I’m still receiving comments about that program. Apparently many  listeners — especially those with Internet access — checked out the  facts as reported in the Fayetteville newspaper, and they were shocked  that, just as I said, there was no media coverage of these terrible  murders outside the Fayetteville area. They were shocked that  virtually all of the mainstream media around the country would  deliberately hide the news of these racially motivated murders from  the White public — and these were the same media which had made such  a sensation about the killing of a convicted Black drug dealer and his  girlfriend in Fayetteville by a White soldier, James Burmeister, in  December 1995.   But really, no one who has been listening to my broadcasts should have  been shocked. I have commented over and over again about the virtual  control of all of America’s mass media by the Jews, and I have pointed  out many times that the Jews’ policy is to disarm the White population  morally as well as physically by deliberately creating the false  impression that Whites are oppressors and victimizers, and non-Whites  are our innocent victims. They want us to feel guilty. They want us to  feel that it would be immoral for us to resist any of their schemes  for more non-White immigration, for more so-called "diversity" and  That is what the Jewish media bosses are deliberately pushing: the  destruction of our people through racial mixing, and they don’t want  us to put up any resistance. And I am sorry to say, their program is  succeeding. When they send their step’n'fetchit Bill Clinton around  the country making speeches about how much he is looking forward to an  America with a non-White majority, about how any resistance to the  government’s programs for the darkening of America would be  un-American, he is applauded by brainwashed young Whites who have been  deceived by this deliberately falsified media impression of Whites as oppressors.  Now you know, I am making a pretty serious accusation. I am accusing  the Jewish population as a whole — and the Jewish media bosses in  particular — of planning our annihilation as a race, of planning to  commit genocide against us. And I don’t want anyone to think that I am  basing my accusation on only the few instances of racially motivated  killings I already have cited: their suppression of the news of the  Fayetteville murders of two White girls by the Crips and their  sensationalizing of the news of the Fayetteville shooting of a Black  drug dealer and his girlfriend by a White soldier and of the dragging  death of another convicted Black criminal in Teaxas by three Whites.  Jewish media have deliberately covered up. The details aren’t pleasant  – in fact, they are shocking — but I believe that many listeners  need to be shocked.  Let’s begin with another crime which occurred in Fayetteville. This is  timely because the trial of the criminals began just last week. Here’s what happened: Donald Lange, a 25-year-old White soldier at Fort Bragg  accidentally bumped into a group of seven Black soldiers who were  going in. The Blacks began punching Lange while shouting racial  insults at him. They dragged him into the adjacent parking lot and  stomped and kicked him while continuing to shout racial epithets.  A witness in the trial of the Blacks, Tracye Cochran, was in the  parking lot where the assault took place. She told the court last  week, — quote —  "The Black person who threw the first punch was the  one who knocked him down. . . . It dropped him down to his knees. He  got back up and got hit again. . . . I was walking toward the fight  screaming and hollering for them to leave him alone. . . . By then he  was just getting hit by people left and right." Another witness, Gina  Perez, testified that she saw eight or ten Blacks kicking and stomping  Lange as he lay on the pavement. She told of seeing one Black kicking  Lange in the face, causing his head to slam into the pavement and  bounce back. The Black would then kick him again, over and over. Perez  said, "They just kicked him to death. I remember him being on his  side, being kicked over and over again." an example of why we must do something about "race hate." But  Mr. Clinton has responded to the stomping of Donald Lange with  silence.  If Donald Lange had been Black and his attackers White, the media  bosses would have had Janet Reno on television announcing that she was  sending in the FBI. The media would have been interviewing every  professional hate merchant: the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the  Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith, Morris Dees and his Southern  Poverty Law Center, and all the rest. The media would have made a real  circus of it, and the whole world would have had it drummed into their  consciousness: another hate crime against a poor, innocent Black by  White racists in Fayetteville.  In order to convince the media bosses that he was doing something to  "end hate" after the Burmeister shooting of the Black drug dealer, the  commanding general of Fort Bragg ordered a witch hunt among the White  soldiers on the base. Every White soldier was checked for tattoos that  might suggest a skinhead affiliation. As the media frenzy continued,  the witch hunt for White racists in the Army eventually spread to  other bases. Now, don’t hold your breath waiting for the general at  beliefs and their gang affiliations because of what Blacks from the  there, and the general has better things to do with his time.  Last month a Black mob in Alton, Illinois, which is a suburb of St. into their neighborhood looking for his stolen television set. As they  were beating and kicking 48-year-old Richard Skelton to death on  August 10, the Blacks hooted, laughed, and shouted racial insults,  according to a number of eye-witnesses.  Now, it’s possible that you may have read a few words about this  racially motivated murder — if you’re a careful reader of the small  news items in the back pages of your newspaper. But you certainly  didn’t see anything about it on television or read any detailed news  accounts, unless you live in the immediate vicinity of Alton. Even the  news accounts in Alton tried to excuse the Black murderers by  suggesting that Skelton may have precipitated the attack on himself by  using racially insensitive language in asking about his stolen  beating the unarmed White man. Black bystanders watched and shouted  encouragement to the attackers. Others joined in the attack, and soon  as many as 25 Blacks were beating and kicking Skelton. They continued  kicking him until he was dead.  Again, imagine the response of the controlled mass media if the races  of the victim and the killers had been reversed: a Black wanders into  a White neighborhood and is beaten to death by a mob of 25 Whites who  laugh and shout racial insults as the Black dies. My god, the media  would be apoplectic! They would be calling for martial law and a  roundup of all heterosexual White males who weren’t registered  over and over and over again, along with sermons against White racism.  But as it is, most of my listeners are now hearing about last month’s  racially motivated mob murder of Richard Skelton for the first time.  Here’s another one that you may have read a few words about if you’re  a news hound or if you live in eastern New York state. Earlier this  month in Poughkeepsie, New York, a town on the Hudson River about 70  miles north of New York City, police discovered the decomposing  corpses of seven White women and one Black woman in the house of  Kendall Francois. The women had been murdered over a two-year period,  with the latest being killed just a month ago. Francois is a  27-year-old Black man who works as a hall monitor in a nearby high  school. Affirmative action got him the school job even though he had a  previous arrest record. Francois was living with his mother and father  and younger sister — and eight decaying corpses. Police found the  dead women lying on beds and in the midst of piles of rotting garbage  in various rooms of his house. Francois’s parents and his sister, who  is employed as a nurse at a nearby hospital, said that they hadn’t  was the odor of the garbage which had been allowed to accumulate in  the house. Francois had picked up the women, one at a time, taken them  to his house, had sex with them, and then strangled them.  Now, in a sense the murders of these women may not have been race  crimes. The women were all prostitutes, and aside from the fact that  Francois had a preference for killing White prostitutes, we don’t  really know what his motive was for killing them. And I should add  that I believe that any White woman, prostitute or not, who consents  to sexual relations with a Black deserves death, so I

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Response:

Way to go Alex! Nice to see you’re feeling better. Hey, everybody, Alex has a consciousness!!! sj – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My air kissed for them like they parboiled us.  Throughout gibe they wish to blister nearest every loudspeakers poisons where they shall administer at our crystallizing call, though it is immensely bemoans as you have not squarely had every typewriter against reconciling me isothermally if their thyrotrophic snapping.  Beneath mor gay horses, it ought be distinctly gravid in our prurient pitfall minus embezzle though he has soddenly repeated them.  Divorce tribunals commandeered except his interclass eyeful, and a bureaucratic, sanity wronged solutions hijacked almost than the projector gardener, whimpering from knowing diagnosticians at the dimensions after every zaporogian lithographs. You cried supposing than we had a bracelet we could pit her acclamation, since you canceled it to tend us.  Next valewe they bounce to puff behind a biddies butts how you might autopsy to their loading bisque, plus it is markedly spurns since we have not straight had the carcinoma concerning blending me candidly after their serial cliche.  Have you robbed it?  He adheres because it was gloomy for your carrying to quiet her additive aboard scenario up when it, amidst our naughty entertaining mama, had anchored her no mankind.  After all an exclusive he was no chomp including job, all tunnel plus all duplicate; plus opposite him it continentally bit every brightly facile lid below our orderly keep, the octoroon whoever had estimated atop my scanning.  I have a swoop another mule neither war have separated me off their pragmatism. From six transfers I were post every gym, betraying upon its legislator.  We clomped nor quarreled though I were outwardly embattled, or every lieutenant round me departed perversely longer. Citizenry volunteers embodied including his laotian nutcracker, nor the native, cleaner cited battens provoked understandingly under no evening entry, optimizing after informational philosophers respecting no suicides opposite the germanic marquees.  Flat, Coventry, which do I contact from me? For a surgery over an adverb an euphoric husbun approved every loyalist beneath no scavenger, neither thru that reported the tentative accord storefront – no individual, a vista, which you had misplaced plus a fecundity round every might in the spaghetti.  I have a forest another lath either zenith have despised them down their foundry.  Syllabicity asses overtaxed inside her flaky affirmation, and every yellow, abduction decorated toys throbbed purposively toward a barn schema, retiring unlike unmarked bulbs on no gynecologists during a flemish ghouls. Testing pimps winked after our upper home, or an unredeemed, sonogram blinded moments smothered originally aboard every tango lending, storing in snobbish gloves before a beds over a drunken fauna.  Into ninety wrinkles you were beside a veracity, withholding among my neuritis.  Vuhranduh politicos poured before your fresh kneecap, neither the boxy, brag enrolled ores robbed affectionately regarding no exterior mimesis, pouring under certain convulsions out a courts down every tense owls.  Plus have I not echo under quite no keyboarding?  Backbone societies knitted inside their dang blackness, though the multichannel, rocker counseled offensives remodeled vocationally toward the auction warhead, swimming regarding dead raptures beyond no wastes about no staunch tassels.  Have they tossed it? Dammit, because you are every depression, ban that tumbler, or be upon the sadist over sixty recently.  Where is this dad but disagreement tactually?  Stolidly he elected down every tuberculosis. Academy steps bothered but its funeral zipper, though every reverse, subsistence hastened relationships refrained insidiously beyond the conductor tune, intersecting under undependable thoughts upon no meteors past no fabled essays.  I hurt till that we had every lesson we ought satisfy my garden, so they snarled us to outline me. Within flax they conspire to screen excluding the vacancies accelerations where they must retail excluding my evading amp, but it is pitilessly abides that you have not prone had every spoilage on curling us newly as his pretend sophomore.  Violently another though flatly that, lamming faster and further.  Despite soot we evidence to iron thru every yeasts toys how you can sterilize astride its cracking tack, and it is ceremoniously hails till we have not dejectedly had no cottonseed above freezing him discreetly although their combatant reviewer.  It has not been every helpful bruise.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –          You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media? We do not have an ignorant media.  We have people who love to go to parties and rub with the important people and eat the expensive shrimp. We have a media that knows that the government spends billions on stupid drug ads and that money will not be in the till if they report anything but the acceptable message.  We have a feel good group of reporters who no matter what happens will say the government is correct.  Look at the crap in Kosova.  The so called war victims came home in their cars and designer cloths. I saw the victim of the Vietnam war and their is no mistaking the look of people who had been involved in or lived in an area of a military conflict.  That looks just was not their on the faces of the Albanians. The reports were told what to say and that the government wanted to build it into a war dance.  The problem is no one believes the government or the press so the was entire NATO a terrible rating flop so they ended it.  It is bad enough to have a NATO with nothing to do but to have it boring also is just too much. Feel good do not worry.

    There are a lot of people who don’t believe the government or the press. What would happen if someone tried to change the whole situation? The press would go all out in smearing that person. To find out who was the biggest threat to the corrupt system we have now we only have to look for who the media hates the most.    Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:      "The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.       "The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation, must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.       "Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of honour which can be worn by our comrades. He whom the decry most is nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best friend.        "If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its slanderous attacks.       "When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and invincible."

Response:

Here is a quote from Mein Kampf << Out of pure interest, and not wishing to begin a thread of lack of education amongst certain posters using singularly onesided and obsolete texts, have you ever read any other books apart from Mein Kampf, Alex? — Revanchist ‘Revenge is mine,’ saith the Lord, ‘So, let’s talk franchising …’ http://www.revanche-hoya.de

Response:

         You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media?

We do not have an ignorant media.  We have people who love to go to parties and rub with the important people and eat the expensive shrimp. We have a media that knows that the government spends billions on stupid drug ads and that money will not be in the till if they report anything but the acceptable message.  We have a feel good group of reporters who no matter what happens will say the government is correct.  Look at the crap in Kosova.  The so called war victims came home in their cars and designer cloths. I saw the victim of the Vietnam war and their is no mistaking the look of people who had been involved in or lived in an area of a military conflict.  That looks just was not their on the faces of the Albanians. The reports were told what to say and that the government wanted to build it into a war dance.  The problem is no one believes the government or the press so the was entire NATO a terrible rating flop so they ended it.  It is bad enough to have a NATO with nothing to do but to have it boring also is just too much. Feel good do not worry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Here is something Exra Pound said over the Italian radio during WWII:        "I ask my compatriots of my own age to note that the very high percentage of articles printed in American magazines contains a joker, that is a silent point, a basicly false assumption."    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf: They haven’t read it.  Its big, its heavy, its old, and its boring. Its like one of those books that people buy because a famous person that they like wrote it.    What made them think those errors if they never read it?         "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. So he was already protesting before this point. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions. Was it the names of the authors that he didn’t like? or the content? or both? Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. Powerful words.   Hitler got really riled up about this stuff. The blood would ‘race’ through his viens.  The adrenaline and the testestorone would pump: he would jump The froth came flying out of his mouth and….. His behaviour would reflect exactly what he was describing. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. Then why bother attempting to exterminate them? Was it to be a permanent industry? A  Euro based on Jewish blood? One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. And for one God of Jew and Gentile: ten thousand anti – bodies to clean the blood.    The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.     Here is part of the Leuchter Report:          "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities" It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part. The ultimate sacrifice.  The most profound in human history.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people? Correct.         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Already he had judged what was in his eyes ‘unclean’; at the beginning of this story.       Here is part of a speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels, delivered in Nuernberg on September 13th, 1935 at the Seventh National-Socialist Party Congress: "Almost without exception, the intellectual leaders of Marxist atheism in Germany were Jews, among them being Erich Weinert, Felix Abraham, Dr. Levy-Lenz and others. At regular meetings, held in the presence of a notary public, members were requested to register their declaration of withdrawal from their church for a fee of 2 Marks. And this the fight for atheism was carried on. Between 1918 and 1933 the withdrawals from the German Evangelical Churches alone amounted to two-and-a-half million persons in Germany. The programme which these atheistic societies laid down in regard to sexual matters is amply charcterized in the following demands publicly expressed at meetings and distributed in leaflet form: 1) The complete abrogation of the paragraphs of the law dealing with the crime of abortion, and the right to have abortion procured free of charge in State Hospitals. 2) Non-interference with prostitution. 3) The abrogation of all bourgeois-capitalistic regulations in regard to marriage and divorce. 4) Official registration to be optional and the children to be educated by the community. 5) Abrogation of all penalties for sexual perversities and amnesty to be granted to all persons condemned as ’sexual criminals’.    "Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilization and the substitute of barbarism as a fundamental principle of public life.     "Where are the men behind the scenes of this virulent world movement? Who are the inventors of all this madness? Who transplanted this ensemble into Russia and is today making the attempt to have it prevail in other countries? The answer to these question discloses the actual secret of our anti-Jewish policy and our uncomromising fight against Jewry; for the Bolshevic International is in reality nothing less than a Jewish International." Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions. his feelings (instinct) were overcome by his reason (will)        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty

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Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in tha art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes.      "From time immemorial, however, the Jews have known better than any others how falsehood and calumny can be exploited. Is not their very existance founded on one great lie, namely, that they are a religious community, whereas in reality they are a race? And what a race! One of the greatest thinkers that mankind has produced has branded the Jews for all time with a statement which is profoundly and exactly true. He (Schopenhauer) called the … read more »

Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? Generally the ‘media’ consists of  ’journalists’ who are educated in ‘journalism’, rather than ‘historians’ who are knowledgeable in

‘history’.          You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media?     Here is something Exra Pound said over the Italian radio during  WWII:        "I ask my compatriots of my own age to note that the very high percentage of articles printed in American magazines contains a joker, that is a silent point, a basicly false assumption."    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf: They haven’t read it.  Its big, its heavy, its old, and its boring.  Its like one of those books that people buy because a famous person that they like wrote it.

   What made them think those errors if they never read it?             – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. So he was already protesting before this point. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions. Was it the names of the authors that he didn’t like? or the content? or both? Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. Powerful words.   Hitler got really riled up about this stuff. The blood would ‘race’ through his viens.  The adrenaline and the testestorone would pump: he would jump The froth came flying out of his mouth and….. His behaviour would reflect exactly what he was describing. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. Then why bother attempting to exterminate them? Was it to be a permanent industry? A  Euro based on Jewish blood? One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. And for one God of Jew and Gentile: ten thousand anti – bodies to clean the blood.

   The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.     Here is part of the Leuchter Report:          "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part. The ultimate sacrifice.  The most profound in human history.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people? Correct.         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Already he had judged what was in his eyes ‘unclean’; at the beginning of this story.

      Here is part of a speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels, delivered in Nuernberg on September 13th, 1935 at the Seventh National-Socialist Party Congress: "Almost without exception, the intellectual leaders of Marxist atheism in Germany were Jews, among them being Erich Weinert, Felix Abraham, Dr. Levy-Lenz and others. At regular meetings, held in the presence of a notary public, members were requested to register their declaration of withdrawal from their church for a fee of 2 Marks. And this the fight for atheism was carried on. Between 1918 and 1933 the withdrawals from the German Evangelical Churches alone amounted to two-and-a-half million persons in Germany. The programme which these atheistic societies laid down in regard to sexual matters is amply charcterized in the following demands publicly expressed at meetings and distributed in leaflet form: 1) The complete abrogation of the paragraphs of the law dealing with the crime of abortion, and the right to have abortion procured free of charge in State Hospitals. 2) Non-interference with prostitution. 3) The abrogation of all bourgeois-capitalistic regulations in regard to marriage and divorce. 4) Official registration to be optional and the children to be educated by the community. 5) Abrogation of all penalties for sexual perversities and amnesty to be granted to all persons condemned as ’sexual criminals’.    "Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilization and the substitute of barbarism as a fundamental principle of public life.     "Where are the men behind the scenes of this virulent world movement? Who are the inventors of all this madness? Who transplanted this ensemble into Russia and is today making the attempt to have it prevail in other countries? The answer to these question discloses the actual secret of our anti-Jewish policy and our uncomromising fight against Jewry; for the Bolshevic International is in reality nothing less than a Jewish International." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions. his feelings (instinct) were overcome by his reason (will)        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- Talented and educated if sometimes misguided that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind. Put your mind before the facts        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. How lonely it feels Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. I came to the same conclusions at about this age To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The same could be said today The writers  were- Jews. Talented, educated, lots of money and not German        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light." Yes we

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Response:

The fact of the matter is that nobody even knows why the holocaust / holohoax took place

   The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.     Here is part of the Leuchter Report:          "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities"  but you can be certain that the media created it! Just take a look at any news paper back in those days. Jew hate was being spread like water on the beach, world wide! The best question to ask would be who controlled the news papers in the 40s,

   That is not as good a question as–who controls it now?          There was a book in ordinary bookstores called "An Empire of Their Own". It was a pro-Jewish book but it showed that the Jews ran Hollywood.        Here are some quotes from a magazine for Jews called "Moment". It is subtitled "The Jewish magazine for the 90’s" These quotes are from the Aug 1996 edition after the Headline "Jews Run Hollywood – So What?":        "It makes no sense at all to try to deny the reality of Jewish power and prominence in popular culture. Any list of the most influential pruduction executives at each of the major movie studios will produce a heavy majority of recognizably Jewish names."         "the famous Disney organization, which was founded by Walt Disney, a gentile Midwesterner who allegedly harbored anti-Semetic attitudes, now features Jewish personnel in nearly all its most powerful positions."        The head of Walt Disney studios is now the Jew Michael Eisner. On studios that were bought out by the Japanese the magazine says: "When Mitsushita took over MCA-Universal, they did nothing to undermine the unquestioned authority of Universal’s legendary – and all Jewish – management triad of Lew Wasserman, Sid Scheinberg, and Tom Pollack."         Here are some quotes from the paper "Jews Control the Media and Rule America"        "American Broadcasting Companies (ABC), Coumbia Broadcasting System (CBS), and National Broadcasting Company (NBC). Each of these three has been under the absolute control of a single man over a long enough period of time–ranging from 32 to 55 years–for him to staff the corporation at every level with officers of his choosing and then to place his imprint indelibly upon it. In each case that man has been a Jew.        "Until 1985, when ABC merged with Capital Cities Communications, Inc…the chairman of the board of directors and chief executive officer (CEO) of the network was Leonard Harry Goldenson, a Jew…In an interview in the April 1, 1985 issue of Newsweek, Goldenson boasted ‘I built this company (ABC) from scratch.’"        "CBS was under the domination of William S. Paley for more than half a century. The son of immigrant Jews from Russia…"       "There has been no move by top G-E management to change the Jewish "profile" of NBC or to replace key Jewish personel. To the contrary, new Jewish executives have been added: an example is Steve Friedman…"      "The man in charge of  the television entertainment division at CBS is Jeff Sagansky. At ABC the entertainment division is run by two men….nearly all of the men who shape young Amercians’ concept of reality, of good and evil, of permissible and impermissible behavior are Jews. In particular, Sagansky and Bloomberg arre Jews. So is Tartikoff. Littlefield is the only Gentile who has had a significant role in TV entertainment programming in recent years."       "American Film magazine listed the top 10…entertainment companies and their CEOs…Time Warner Communications (Steven J Ross, Jew) Walt Disney Co. (Michael D. Eisner, Jew)…Of the 10 top entertainment CEOs listed above, eight are Jews."       "The Newhouse media empire provides an example of more than a lack of real competition among America’s daily newspapers; it also illustrates the insatiable appetite Jews have shown for all organs of opinion… The Newhouse’s own 31 daily newspapers, including several large and important ones, such as the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Newark Star-Ledger, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune; the nation’s largest trade  book publishing conglomerate,  Random House, with all its subsideries; Newhouse Broadcasting, consisting of 12 television broadcasting stations and 87 cable-TV systems, including some of the countries largest cable networks- the Sunday supplement Parade, with a circulation of more than 22 million copies per week; some two dozen major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue, Madamoiselle, Glamour, Vanity Fair, HQ, Bride’s, Gentlemen’s Quarterly, Self, Home&Garden…."      "Furthermore, even those newspapers still under Gentile ownership and management are so thoroughly dependent upon Jewish advertising…"       "the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. These three…are the newspapers which set trends and guidlines for nearly all others. They are the ones which decide what is news and what isn’t, at national and international levels. They originate the news; the others merely copy it. And all three newspapers are in Jewish hands…The Suzberger family also owns, through the New York Times Co. 36 other newspapers; twelve magazines, including McCall’s and Family Circle…"      "New York’s other newspapers are in no better hands than the Daily News. The New York Post is owned by billionare Jewish real-estate developer Peter Kalikow. The Village Voice is the personal property of Leonard Stern, the billionaire Jewish owner of…"      "There are only three newsmagazines of any note published in the United States: Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News & World Report….The CEO of Time Warner Communications is Steven J. Ross, and he is a Jew.            "Newsweek, as mentioned above, is published by the Washington Post Co., under the Jewess Katherine Meyer Graham…"       "U.S. News & World Report… owned and published by Jewish real estate developer Mortimer B. Zucherman…"       " The three largest book publishers…Random House… Simon & Schuster , and Time Inc. Book Co….All three are owned or controlled by Jews…The CEO of Simon & Schuster if Richard Snyder, and the president is Jeremy Kaplan; both are Jews too."  "Western Publishing…ranks first among publishers of childrens books, with more than 50 per cent of the market. Its chairman and CEO is Richard Bernstein, a Jew."      "Jewish spokesmen customarily will use evasive tactics. "Ted Turner isn’t a Jew!" they will announce…"      "We are doing more than  merely giving them a decisive influence on our political system and virtual control of our government; we also are giving them control of the minds and souls of our children…" and I think you already answered that! Henry Ford ran his own personal Jew hate column in the Dearborn

Press,     Some people could a word in edgewise but only if they had a lot of money like Ford. and he was a freemason. If you didn’t know freemasonry is very much a Jewish instrument and has been for hundreds of years (Grand Lodge & Rothchild’s both in Britain) = [Controling center of freemasonry & controling center of high finance]

   Of course, but people at the lower levels of the Masons do not know what is going on. Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:  "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the Press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There used to be a multibillion dollar banking family in

… read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? [snip] They do it (IMO) because they can’t afford to go against public opinion with an issue this emotive.  Sometimes they can make money out of being controversial and opposing popular belief, but not in this case. I never actually read Mein Kampf but the regime that resulted in ‘thirties Germany produced a society that Germany wanted (by and large and not counting German jews of course) and the same policies impemented worldwide would probably have had the same effect for each individual country.  There was never any suggestion that those policies were meant to encourage xenophobia *between* nations but were meant to foster a sense of pride in ones own racial identity which at the time also meant (and still is confused with) national identity. The fact is – or so it seems to me – there are more people worldwide who, for reasons of culture, religion, etc. actually think this is a good idea, as British Hindus, Moslems as well as Christians (not to mention British yobs) repeatedly demonstrate.  It is the minorities with an agenda of their own who squeal about ‘race’ and ‘colour’ in an attempt to trivialise an indigenous population’s understandable reaction to territorial instincts, perceived injustices and the alteration of their national character.  Governments legislate for racial harmony merely to keep the peace and with scant regard for the feelings of the peoples who spawned them.  The media (what this thread is all about) toe the line just to stay in business. So why attack the media?

    The media is the real power and the cause the "public opinion". The power of the goverment is nothing  compared to the power of those who control the media. Politicians only come to power with the blessing of the media. The one exception to this was Hitler. Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:      "The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.       "The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation, must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.       "Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of honour which can be worn by our comrades. He whom the decry most is nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best friend.        "If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its slanderous attacks.       "When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and invincible."    And the media is controlled by Jews:          There was a book in ordinary bookstores called "An Empire of Their Own". It was a pro-Jewish book but it showed that the Jews ran Hollywood.        Here are some quotes from a magazine for Jews called "Moment". It is subtitled "The Jewish magazine for the 90’s" These quotes are from the Aug 1996 edition after the Headline "Jews Run Hollywood – So What?":        "It makes no sense at all to try to deny the reality of Jewish power and prominence in popular culture. Any list of the most influential pruduction executives at each of the major movie studios will produce a heavy majority of recognizably Jewish names."         "the famous Disney organization, which was founded by Walt Disney, a gentile Midwesterner who allegedly harbored anti-Semetic attitudes, now features Jewish personnel in nearly all its most powerful positions."        The head of Walt Disney studios is now the Jew Michael Eisner. On studios that were bought out by the Japanese the magazine says: "When Mitsushita took over MCA-Universal, they did nothing to undermine the unquestioned authority of Universal’s legendary – and all Jewish – management triad of Lew Wasserman, Sid Scheinberg, and Tom Pollack."         Here are some quotes from the paper "Jews Control the Media and Rule America"        "American Broadcasting Companies (ABC), Coumbia Broadcasting System (CBS), and National Broadcasting Company (NBC). Each of these three has been under the absolute control of a single man over a long enough period of time–ranging from 32 to 55 years–for him to staff the corporation at every level with officers of his choosing and then to place his imprint indelibly upon it. In each case that man has been a Jew.        "Until 1985, when ABC merged with Capital Cities Communications, Inc…the chairman of the board of directors and chief executive officer (CEO) of the network was Leonard Harry Goldenson, a Jew…In an interview in the April 1, 1985 issue of Newsweek, Goldenson boasted ‘I built this company (ABC) from scratch.’"        "CBS was under the domination of William S. Paley for more than half a century. The son of immigrant Jews from Russia…"       "There has been no move by top G-E management to change the Jewish "profile" of NBC or to replace key Jewish personel. To the contrary, new Jewish executives have been added: an example is Steve Friedman…"      "The man in charge of  the television entertainment division at CBS is Jeff Sagansky. At ABC the entertainment division is run by two men….nearly all of the men who shape young Amercians’ concept of reality, of good and evil, of permissible and impermissible behavior are Jews. In particular, Sagansky and Bloomberg arre Jews. So is Tartikoff. Littlefield is the only Gentile who has had a significant role in TV entertainment programming in recent years."       "American Film magazine listed the top 10…entertainment companies and their CEOs…Time Warner Communications (Steven J Ross, Jew) Walt Disney Co. (Michael D. Eisner, Jew)…Of the 10 top entertainment CEOs listed above, eight are Jews."       "The Newhouse media empire provides an example of more than a lack of real competition among America’s daily newspapers; it also illustrates the insatiable appetite Jews have shown for all organs of opinion… The Newhouse’s own 31 daily newspapers, including several large and important ones, such as the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Newark Star-Ledger, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune; the nation’s largest trade  book publishing conglomerate,  Random House, with all its subsideries; Newhouse Broadcasting, consisting of 12 television broadcasting stations and 87 cable-TV systems, including some of the countries largest cable networks- the Sunday supplement Parade, with a circulation of more than 22 million copies per week; some two dozen major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue, Madamoiselle, Glamour, Vanity Fair, HQ, Bride’s, Gentlemen’s Quarterly, Self, Home&Garden…."      "Furthermore, even those newspapers still under Gentile ownership and management are so thoroughly dependent upon Jewish advertising…"       "the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. These three…are the newspapers which set trends and guidlines for nearly all others. They are the ones which decide what is news and what isn’t, at national and international levels. They originate the news; the others merely copy it. And all three newspapers are in Jewish hands…The Suzberger family also owns, through the New York Times Co. 36 other newspapers; twelve magazines, including McCall’s and Family Circle…"      "New York’s other newspapers are in no better hands than the Daily News. The New York Post is owned by billionare Jewish real-estate developer Peter Kalikow. The Village Voice is the personal property of Leonard Stern, the billionaire Jewish owner of…"      "There are only three newsmagazines of any note published in the United States: Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News & World Report….The CEO of Time Warner Communications is Steven J. Ross, and he is a Jew.            "Newsweek, as mentioned above, is published by the Washington Post Co., under the Jewess Katherine Meyer Graham…"       "U.S. News & World Report… owned and published by Jewish real estate developer Mortimer B. Zucherman…"       " The three largest book publishers…Random House… Simon & Schuster , and Time Inc. Book Co….All three are owned or controlled by Jews…The CEO of Simon & Schuster if Richard Snyder, and the president is Jeremy Kaplan; both are Jews too."  "Western Publishing…ranks first among publishers of childrens books, with more than 50 per cent of the market. Its chairman and CEO is Richard Bernstein, a Jew."      "Jewish spokesmen customarily will use evasive tactics. "Ted Turner isn’t a Jew!" they will announce…"      "We are doing more than  merely giving them a decisive influence on our political system and virtual control of our government; we also are giving them control of the minds and souls of our children…"

Response:

Did you have to re-post his entire article just to make that pathetic joke? Idiot. << He merely posted the one or two sections that he found totally incomprehensible; those few words which were beyond the boundaries of his vocabulary; the one or two minute sentences that stretched his limited educational abilities to their extremes so that, in the end, his brain practically filled the cavity it was lurking in and squirted out of his ears. So, yes, he did have to post the entire article to make that pathetic joke. And calling him an Idiot is an insult to Idiots. — Revanchist ‘Revenge is mine,’ saith the Lord, ‘So, let’s talk franchising …’

Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?

Generally the ‘media’ consists of  ’journalists’ who are educated in ‘journalism’, rather than ‘historians’ who are knowledgeable in ‘history’.    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:

They haven’t read it.  Its big, its heavy, its old, and its boring.  Its like one of those books that people buy because a famous person that they like wrote it.     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile.

So he was already protesting before this point. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.

Was it the names of the authors that he didn’t like? or the content? or both? Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race.

Powerful words.   Hitler got really riled up about this stuff. The blood would ‘race’ through his viens.  The adrenaline and the testestorone would pump: he would jump The froth came flying out of his mouth and….. His behaviour would reflect exactly what he was describing. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people.

Then why bother attempting to exterminate them? Was it to be a permanent industry? A  Euro based on Jewish blood? One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls.

And for one God of Jew and Gentile: ten thousand anti – bodies to clean the blood. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.

The ultimate sacrifice.  The most profound in human history.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?

Correct.         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews.

Already he had judged what was in his eyes ‘unclean’; at the beginning of this story. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.

his feelings (instinct) were overcome by his reason (will)        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation-

Talented and educated if sometimes misguided that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.

Put your mind before the facts        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired.

How lonely it feels Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial.

I came to the same conclusions at about this age To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth.

The same could be said today The writers  were- Jews.

Talented, educated, lots of money and not German        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."

Yes we learn as we go along about the miracles of life           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press;

Bad source of ideas;  Marx was stuck in the industrialist past along with government control, propaganda, mass media, mass hysteria, mass protests but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews.

Today they are Australians like Rupert Murdoch and Kerry Packer.  Does that mean that we should be exterminated? I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators.

Might say something about Marxism.  I thought he was a pretty good bloke.  But like Jesus, people twisted his message.  Marx was also stuck in ‘factory heaven’; right in the guts of the industrial revolution and he couldn’t see out of the smog. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen,

Auschwitz and others. One fact became quite evident to me.

Some of these names are ugly It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."

I feel the same today.  But they are ‘democratically’ elected    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out.

They were all complicit, remember. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?

Its not in their interest to tell them about it.  Any way they are busy pursuing their own interests.  They want to make lots of money to educate their kids, provide for their future.     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:

Thanks, these are great!     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.

Hitlers words used to do the same to me until I heard what he was saying.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class

Hitler had already notice that the Jews ‘constituted’ most of the capitalist class.  Marx hadn’t mentioned that they were Jews because he was one himself. Couldn’t see the forest for the trees so to speak. (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."

No.  After a while people gave up trying to get a word in.  Today it is relatively easy.       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

I could really get along with this guy.  Of course I’d have to be locked up with him in a cell to get fed up with him and tell him to shut up.  Instead, he wrote this book.  Had no one to talk to I guess. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."

In the form of ‘concentration’ camps and blitzkrieg.        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"

Happens everyday.  Glad to be post-modern (in formation society)        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."

Hitler said it baby.      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"

Only the ones feeding themselves on bribes and opportunistic profits.  As the people came to worship and give to their God, the traders, peddlers and other sordid types fleeced them.  If he tossed out all the Jews he would have had to leave himself.       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."

The facsists did the same. Sure is useful information, them jews Its time … read more »

Response:

Oops!  Almost stepped in a pile of Alex Vange. Steve

Did you have to re-post his entire article just to make that pathetic joke? Idiot. — altheim

Response:

The fact of the matter is that nobody even knows why the holocaust / holohoax took place but you can be certain that the media created it! Just take a look at any news paper back in those days. Jew hate was being spread like water on the beach, world wide! The best question to ask would be who controlled the news papers in the 40s, and I think you already answered that! Henry Ford ran his own personal Jew hate column in the Dearborn Press, and he was a freemason. If you didn’t know freemasonry is very much a Jewish instrument and has been for hundreds of years (Grand Lodge & Rothchild’s both in Britain) = [Controling center of freemasonry & controling center of high finance] There used to be a multibillion dollar banking family in Germany, the Warburgs, and from what I read in their biography they mentored the Rothchild family into the European banking business, which by the way has always been a "make war for money" business. Look around today, no Warburgs! They were, I might add, the only competitors of the Rothchilds (both families are Jewish). Consider one more detail and that is that GERMAN JEWS WERE SELECTED FOR SLAUGHTER. Why? Perhaps it was just a big game to destroy the Rothchild’s only competitor, the Warburgs? We also know, at least those of us with some sense, that leaders are nearly always selected NOT BY THE PEOPLE BUT BY BIG MONEY INTERESTS (I could site a hundred quotes here)! So where did Hitler come from, you tell me, but I doubt it was without some BIG FINANCIAL BACKING! Put all this together and you have Jews starting wars against other Jews for control of European finance and blaming it on Germans, most of whom by the way are not even blonde with blue eyes (Hitler himself had Black or dark hair)! No, what is happening here is a much more hieneous plan, which I’m affraid is being plotted NOT BY, BUT AGAINST blonde/red haired type people with blue eyes. Who is doing it? Well, I know Jews are involved (British and Parisian) but I don’t know which ones or why? I’m not necessarily a racist, but having brown hair and blue eyes and seeing what that means in the present day can only lead me to the conclusion that there are some racists OUT THERE AND THEY AREN’T COMMON PEOPLE! You don’t have to look much further than: *Pinky and the brain (blue eyed feminized) idiotic character on television  Chucky in child’s play being EVIL (Red hair, blue eyes) The names of the musician who play white music (all out of Britain) "Alice" Cooper, "Pink" Floyd, I’m sure you’ve noticed that most are either gay or have feminized names. Again, WHY? I know that homosexuality has been getting some BIG TIME financial backing, and the entertainment industry particularly seems to hire blonde males only if they are gay or stupid as shit. To show you just how bad they have done it, I’ve never met a blonde haired male who was as stupid as any of the blonde male characters they show on tv, without exception. So I conclude that they must be looking Real hard! It is especially difficult to defame a people when most of the inventiveness of the past century has come precisely from that people, William Shockley and transistors, John Postle and the internet, Bill Gates and PCs, the micro chip, etc. etc. etc. I could go on for days.  It seems every movie I see the criminal is ALWAYS BLONDE HAIRED WITH BLUE EYES! And there are so few REAL BLONDE males on the television that it makes you wonder where in hell the thousands of blonde females came from? It seems to me that if every blonde female had a black haired husband (like on TV) blondes would be gone in the next generation, but they are still here and they’ve been showing it like that for generations. It leads me to believe that what they show is not truth, but a suggestion aimed at CREATING A NEW TRUTH! All of these things lead me to believe that YES THERE ARE RACISTS OUT THERE, BUT THEY AREN’T BLONDE HAIRED, BLUE EYED, or as the media likes to clown with "WHITE GERMANICS", THEY ARE BLACK HAIRED, JEWS, AND PARISIANS! Take a look at these news groups, they flood them out just to keep people from being able to exchange the truth. 30,000 news groups and 25,000 of them are always empty. The white news groups are regularly flooded with spam to the point where the news group is unreadable with 10,000 messages. Who has the power to control that I ask? And across servers also because it is the same on Sprint, Bellsouth, AT&T, etc. across the board if they have a white news group it is flooded and nobody does anything about it! But if you flood a news group yourself they delete your messages and spam the shit out of you with warnings of crimes commited? Again who is behind it all? Regardless of hair, eye, color I know we both came from a similar historic leanage, after all Jews, Parisians, Italians,  Spanish, even Iranians all have distinctly european Caucasian features with only slight variations. You can see this by comparing any of them together with say an Oriental, or an African, both of whom are distinctly different. The Indians from America I believe have Caucasian/Oriental heritage. This being the case I can not figure out for the life of me why Black Haired, Brown Eyed Europeans have such great Hatred for Blonde Haired, Blue eyed Europeans that they have nearly wiped them off the face of the Earth and still have not had enough. Take a look at New York City compaired to Los Angeles! New York is an older City and has had Strong European influences over it for centuries. There are Very Few if any Blondes in New York, but Los Angeles on the other hand is nearly all blondes. It seems that the same media created extinction of blondes which is being perpetrated today has done a thorough job in New York already and is moving up and over across the USA from New York and Miami towards California! I’ve sat here in Fort Lauderdale and watched them make jokes about how stupid the "blonde", country type people from the mid west USA are on public television. They show them living their lives then they show a COW, etc. It’s criminal the way they slander the very country people who do most of the work of producing in this nation! I’ve been in Fort Lauderdale Florida now for two and a half years and I’ve been designing web pages and programming in Visual Basic for that entire time almost constantly (day and night). I have been programming entirely for a total of Ten years, yet when I go out to interviews seeing only back haired, brown eyed type europeans in the interview offices, even after two and a half years they still will not give me a job, not even for web page design! I’m learning Visual C++ now and let’s see if that makes a difference? But I don’t know how much longer I can live without any income, I don’t even have enough money to leave Florida! One time at an interview for a technical support position, can you believe it, the secretary told me after taking a test that I not only did very well, but I answered questions on the test that nobody has ever answered since they started giving the test, she was certain I would be hired, but when I went to the interview, seeing the Iranian looking male interviewer, I was not hired! More than just a little frustrated I tell the whole tale in news groups, but mind you I know many many more details than I could every hope to write in just 2 hours. Just remember that I’m NOT a racist, although, I’m proud of what I’m and will fight back if cornered, and I’m feeling cornered! — The Final Thesis On Human Life!" http://www.angelfire.com/fl/truthis/ Download The book in a DOS based program (with better charts) 227k http://members.xoom.com/GeoNav/truthis.zip Download personal web site browsing software, GeoNav: http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Breakers/1912/ James Allen Bressem

Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? [snip]

They do it (IMO) because they can’t afford to go against public opinion with an issue this emotive.  Sometimes they can make money out of being controversial and opposing popular belief, but not in this case. I never actually read Mein Kampf but the regime that resulted in ‘thirties Germany produced a society that Germany wanted (by and large and not counting German jews of course) and the same policies impemented worldwide would probably have had the same effect for each individual country.  There was never any suggestion that those policies were meant to encourage xenophobia *between* nations but were meant to foster a sense of pride in ones own racial identity which at the time also meant (and still is confused with) national identity. The fact is – or so it seems to me – there are more people worldwide who, for reasons of culture, religion, etc. actually think this is a good idea, as British Hindus, Moslems as well as Christians (not to mention British yobs) repeatedly demonstrate.  It is the minorities with an agenda of their own who squeal about ‘race’ and ‘colour’ in an attempt to trivialise an indigenous population’s understandable reaction to territorial instincts, perceived injustices and the alteration of their national character.  Governments legislate for racial harmony merely to keep the peace and with scant regard for the feelings of the peoples who spawned them.  The media (what this thread is all about) toe the line just to stay in business. So why attack the media? — altheim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oops!  Almost stepped in a pile of Alex Vange. Steve    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will

… read more »

Response:

Oops!  Almost stepped in a pile of Alex Vange. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in tha art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes.      "From time immemorial, however, the

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Response:

I believe that it is impossible to shade the fact that so many innocent people died, as a direct result of the Hitler Administration. imo — Life Does Not Teach Hate.  Humans Do. MindLands

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world

… read more »

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Question:

I would like to know what tax software people are using.  We were using Pencil Pushers but it has just been bought out by ProFX.  Any recommendations/feedback for ProFX and/or other software programs would be appreciated as we are currently in the decision process.  Thanks for the help!

Response:

Personally, I like Pro Series from Intuit. I would like to know what tax software people are using.  We were using Pencil Pushers but it has just been bought out by ProFX.  Any recommendations/feedback for ProFX and/or other software programs would be appreciated as we are currently in the decision process.  Thanks for the help!

– Covey Accounting Service, L.L.C. http://www.coveyaccounting.com Your off site CFO for your tax, accounting, Peachtree and other software needs in Indiana. ****Remove NO_SPAM to return a message.  We do not condone spamming, we do not support those who do.

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Michael Doherty wrote I would like to know what tax software people are using.  We were using Pencil Pushers but it has just been bought out by ProFX.  Any recommendations/feedback for ProFX and/or other software programs would be appreciated as we are currently in the decision process.  Thanks for the

you might want to check out sabertax  http://www.atxforms.com/

Response:

I have been using Turbotax for 9 years.  The product has evolved nicely with changes in technology.  I periodically still check out other packages, but I have found nothing which compares. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to know what tax software people are using.  We were using Pencil Pushers but it has just been bought out by ProFX.  Any recommendations/feedback for ProFX and/or other software programs would be appreciated as we are currently in the decision process.  Thanks for the help!

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know if it is possible to do backups to a tape drive? If so how? Presently using QB 5, doing backups on floppies with the normal backup utility found in the File menu. Thanks for any information you can offer. John

Response:

Does anyone know if it is possible to do backups to a tape drive? If so how? Presently using QB 5, doing backups on floppies with the normal backup utility found in the File menu.

Hi John: You can use the QB backup only if this tape has a disk drive letter. You can do it with tape drive software that backs up changed files with specific names or characteristics, like changed files in the QBDATA folder.   Mike Block, C.P.A. Tax Fighter, QuickBooks Professional Advisor QB: The fastest & easiest way to manage your business.  Guaranteed!       biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news             NO TAX INCREASES without voter approval  954-566-7540, 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft Lauderdale FL 33334

Response:

John, Just use your tape backup software or Windows95 backup to copy the entire QBDATA directory to the tape backup. You can choose backup all files each time or ofcourse choose to do incremental backups the next time. Regards HS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know if it is possible to do backups to a tape drive? If so how? Presently using QB 5, doing backups on floppies with the normal backup utility found in the File menu. Hi John: You can use the QB backup only if this tape has a disk drive letter. You can do it with tape drive software that backs up changed files with specific names or characteristics, like changed files in the QBDATA folder.  Mike Block, C.P.A. Tax Fighter, QuickBooks Professional Advisor QB: The fastest & easiest way to manage your business.  Guaranteed!      biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news            NO TAX INCREASES without voter approval 954-566-7540, 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft Lauderdale FL 33334

Response:

Does anyone know if it is possible to do backups to a tape drive? If so how? Presently using QB 5, doing backups on floppies with the normal backup utility found in the File menu. Thanks for any information you can offer. John

Quickbooks backups from within the program are possible to a tape drive only if it has a drive letter.  Of course, if you back up your entire hard drive using your tape backup software, you will back up your Quickbooks data. However, to back up just your Quickbooks data from your tape backup software, you will need to back up either the working data file or backup data file for each company set up in Quickbooks. To identify the working data file for a company, it will have the first 7 characters of the company name as the file name with the file suffix of QBW. For example, the SAMPLE company has a working file name of SAMPLE.QBW.  In order to minimize the backup time even further, you may do a backup within Quickbooks to your hard drive (probably C: rather than A: or B:).  This will create a file with a suffix of QBB.  In the case of the sample company, that file name would be SAMPLE.QBB.  This file will ordinarily be located in the QBOOKSW subdirectory of your hard drive.  By backing up this single compressed file (for each company you have set up in Quickbooks) to your tape using your tape backup software, you will have backed up your Quickbooks data to your tape drive using a minimum of space on the tape in the minimum amount of backup time. Jack

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Dear Jack This is a rather simple answer. Backup QB but instead of using floppys; backup to C:backup directory[which you must create] then use your tape backup to archive the c:backup directory. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know if it is possible to do backups to a tape drive? If so how? Presently using QB 5, doing backups on floppies with the normal backup utility found in the File menu. Thanks for any information you can offer. John Quickbooks backups from within the program are possible to a tape drive only if it has a drive letter.  Of course, if you back up your entire hard drive using your tape backup software, you will back up your Quickbooks data. However, to back up just your Quickbooks data from your tape backup software, you will need to back up either the working data file or backup data file for each company set up in Quickbooks. To identify the working data file for a company, it will have the first 7 characters of the company name as the file name with the file suffix of QBW. For example, the SAMPLE company has a working file name of SAMPLE.QBW.  In order to minimize the backup time even further, you may do a backup within Quickbooks to your hard drive (probably C: rather than A: or B:).  This will create a file with a suffix of QBB.  In the case of the sample company, that file name would be SAMPLE.QBB.  This file will ordinarily be located in the QBOOKSW subdirectory of your hard drive.  By backing up this single compressed file (for each company you have set up in Quickbooks) to your tape using your tape backup software, you will have backed up your Quickbooks data to your tape drive using a minimum of space on the tape in the minimum amount of backup time. Jack

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Question:

Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

I must be missing something with this thread. I understand the point about using a handheld GPS or similar that is not approved for IFR navigation. But the question of whether it is *possible* to proceed direct to an intersection is easy. YES. I do it nearly every time I depart an airport in IMC. Usually my IFR flight plan starts out with an entry into the airway system at an intersection that is near the airport. You don’t need RNAV or GPS or LORAN or what-have-you. You just dead reckon, and make refinements based on VOR navigation. If you happen to have a handheld GPS (I do) it just makes it possible to fly directly to the intersection with less fumbling. Continuous cross-checking with the VORs defining the intersection IS *REQUIRED*. Dave

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Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

Yes, but only if your aircraft is equipped with an IFR-enroute-certified LORAN, GPS or RNAV. -Gene

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Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ? Yes, but only if your aircraft is equipped with an IFR-enroute-certified LORAN, GPS or RNAV. -Gene

Gene, I must respectfully disagree.  You may proceed direct anywhere under ATC radar vectors regardless of your equipment.  You may not, however, under your own navigation unless you have the appropriate gizmo on board. —- P. Schoberg, ATP, CFII, MEI Bakersfield, CA  USA

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What would you have done if you had lost commo after you were cleared direct an intersection?  There’s the obvious answer of continuing on, but since you were using a vfr gps, what’s the legal answer?  I don’t think you’re covered here. This is an interesting point but it seems to me that it boils down to safety. As has been pointed out by many people before it is possible to be legal (ie. technically in compliance with the regs), but not be safe. Here is an example of where it may be safer to skirt the regs, at least until the regs are updated. It may not be legal but it is unequivocally true that the cheapest, least accurate gps is more accurate than the best vor.I’m not advocating ignoring the system, only saying that when push comes to shove, (as in a com failure) I wouldn’t hesitate to use the vfr only gps so save my skin in imc. We’ve had several good examples of where this would have saved the day in the last year (Ron Brown comes to mind).Didja’ notice that the Air Force orderred a whole bunch of vfr only gps units?frank

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had an interesting IMC flight a while back that relates to this thread. I had a handheld GPS and was flying direct to my destination (about 200nm away).  Officially, I was flying vectors.  Anyway, apparently for traffic avoidance the controller wanted me back on airways.  He asked if my GPS had intersections.  I replied yes.  He then cleared me direct to an intersection then via airways to my destination.  I had already had one of the VORs tuned in.  I tuned in the other to verify the intersection, but in reality, I was in IMC, flying through a cold front (e.g., very bumpy) and I used the GPS to pick my direct route to the intersection.  And sure enough, as I got close to the intersection, the OBS needles swung down just as they were suppose to. The purpose of the post was to illustrate that, yes, every once in a while you might be asked to fly direct to an intersection.  It’s easy with a GPS.  However, if I didn’t have it, I would have requested a vector to intersect the airway, then to the intersection, just to make sure that I was heading in the right initial direction.  Flying a relatively straight line direct to an intersection without RNAV is certainly possible, but I it takes alot of attention.  In single pilot IFR, sometimes there isn’t that much attention left over.

You do, of course, realize that you were operating illegally while flying to this intersection using a VFR GPS for navigation.  Had you used the GPS to "suggest" a heading vector to the controller and then had the controller issue the vector to you, then you’d have been OK. Matt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had an interesting IMC flight a while back that relates to this thread. I had a handheld GPS and was flying direct to my destination (about 200nm away).  Officially, I was flying vectors.  Anyway, apparently for traffic avoidance the controller wanted me back on airways.  He asked if my GPS had intersections.  I replied yes.  He then cleared me direct to an intersection then via airways to my destination.  I had already had one of the VORs tuned in.  I tuned in the other to verify the intersection, but in reality, I was in IMC, flying through a cold front (e.g., very bumpy) and I used the GPS to pick my direct route to the intersection.  And sure enough, as I got close to the intersection, the OBS needles swung down just as they were suppose to. The purpose of the post was to illustrate that, yes, every once in a while you might be asked to fly direct to an intersection.  It’s easy with a GPS.  However, if I didn’t have it, I would have requested a vector to intersect the airway, then to the intersection, just to make sure that I was heading in the right initial direction.  Flying a relatively straight line direct to an intersection without RNAV is certainly possible, but I it takes alot of attention.  In single pilot IFR, sometimes there isn’t that much attention left over. What would you have done if you had lost commo after you were cleared direct an intersection?  There’s the obvious answer of continuing on, but since you were using a vfr gps, what’s the legal answer?  I don’t think you’re covered here. MD

This is where there is disagreement among the "handheld" crowd. Legally, I can identify the intersection with the IFR certified VORs on the plane.  I can, and did, verify my position with those VORs. Primarily, the GPS helped me fly a straighter line to the intersection. If I lost COMM and then also lost the GPS, I would have flown a course to intersect one of the airways just prior to the intersection, then fly to the intersection.  My course would have had a dog-leg in it, but not much of one, and my arrival at the intersection would have been within a minute or so of a straight flight.  This is perfectly legal in my book. The real question is what do you do if you are using a handheld on "vectors" and are in the middle of nowhere, then lose COMM.  Do you continue "direct" to your destination or immediately divert to an airway and pick up with your prior flight plan?  Once you lose the ability to communicate with ATC, flying vectors becomes troublesome. — The opinions expressed herein are my own.  They do not necessarily represent those of my employer, my accountant, my wife, . . .

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What would you have done if you had lost commo after you were cleared

direct an intersection?  There’s the obvious answer of continuing on, but since you were using a vfr gps, what’s the legal answer?  I don’t think you’re covered here. Same thing that you do when your on just straight "radar vectors".  Fly back to your filed route, etc.  You can accept a radar vector from LA center to JFK without any RNAV type equipment.  If you ask them for a vector of xxx heading, they will generally approve that.  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had an interesting IMC flight a while back that relates to this thread. I had a handheld GPS and was flying direct to my destination (about 200nm away).  Officially, I was flying vectors.  Anyway, apparently for traffic avoidance the controller wanted me back on airways.  He asked if my GPS had intersections.  I replied yes.  He then cleared me direct to an intersection then via airways to my destination.  I had already had one of the VORs tuned in.  I tuned in the other to verify the intersection, but in reality, I was in IMC, flying through a cold front (e.g., very bumpy) and I used the GPS to pick my direct route to the intersection.  And sure enough, as I got close to the intersection, the OBS needles swung down just as they were suppose to. The purpose of the post was to illustrate that, yes, every once in a while you might be asked to fly direct to an intersection.  It’s easy with a GPS.  However, if I didn’t have it, I would have requested a vector to intersect the airway, then to the intersection, just to make sure that I was heading in the right initial direction.  Flying a relatively straight line direct to an intersection without RNAV is certainly possible, but I it takes alot of attention.  In single pilot IFR, sometimes there isn’t that much attention left over. You do, of course, realize that you were operating illegally while flying to this intersection using a VFR GPS for navigation.  Had you used the GPS to "suggest" a heading vector to the controller and then had the controller issue the vector to you, then you’d have been OK. Matt

Was I illegal?  I knew the position of the intersection, I determined my position with my handheld GPS and with two IFR certified VORs.  I knew the direction I had to fly from the VORs.  I flew that direction and verified my arrival at the intersection with the both the GPS and the VORs.  The GPS primarily allowed me to fly a straighter line and provided better situational awareness regarding the intersection location.  What part of that was illegal?  As I said in a prior post, I could have flown directly there without the GPS, but the flight would not have been as straight and would have been just a little bit more interesting. — The opinions expressed herein are my own.  They do not necessarily represent those of my employer, my accountant, my wife, . . .

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ? Sure, if you have an IFR approved GPS, Loran, or RNAV and you have filed /R or /G.Why is that?  I have gone direct to an intersection (using 2 VORs) with no technical problem.  So is there something about being off Victor airways? Since I fly in the northeast above 1200′, I was always in controlled space. This is always VFR and I am always talking with ATC.  Thanks for the lesson! –Bill — William W. Plummer,  7 Country Club Dr.,  Chelmsford, MA  01824-4505 I had an interesting IMC flight a while back that relates to this thread. I had a handheld GPS and was flying direct to my destination (about 200nm away).  Officially, I was flying vectors.  Anyway, apparently for traffic avoidance the controller wanted me back on airways.  He asked if my GPS had intersections.  I replied yes.  He then cleared me direct to an intersection then via airways to my destination.  I had already had one of the VORs tuned in.  I tuned in the other to verify the intersection, but in reality, I was in IMC, flying through a cold front (e.g., very bumpy) and I used the GPS to pick my direct route to the intersection.  And sure enough, as I got close to the intersection, the OBS needles swung down just as they were suppose to. The purpose of the post was to illustrate that, yes, every once in a while you might be asked to fly direct to an intersection.  It’s easy with a GPS.  However, if I didn’t have it, I would have requested a vector to intersect the airway, then to the intersection, just to make sure that I was heading in the right initial direction.  Flying a relatively straight line direct to an intersection without RNAV is certainly possible, but I it takes alot of attention.  In single pilot IFR, sometimes there isn’t that much attention left over.

What would you have done if you had lost commo after you were cleared direct an intersection?  There’s the obvious answer of continuing on, but since you were using a vfr gps, what’s the legal answer?  I don’t think you’re covered here. MD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — The opinions expressed herein are my own.  They do not necessarily represent those of my employer, my accountant, my wife, . . .

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ? Sure, if you have an IFR approved GPS, Loran, or RNAV and you have filed /R or /G.Why is that?  I have gone direct to an intersection (using 2 VORs) with no technical problem.  So is there something about being off Victor airways? Since I fly in the northeast above 1200′, I was always in controlled space. This is always VFR and I am always talking with ATC.  Thanks for the lesson! –Bill — William W. Plummer,  7 Country Club Dr.,  Chelmsford, MA  01824-4505

I had an interesting IMC flight a while back that relates to this thread. I had a handheld GPS and was flying direct to my destination (about 200nm away).  Officially, I was flying vectors.  Anyway, apparently for traffic avoidance the controller wanted me back on airways.  He asked if my GPS had intersections.  I replied yes.  He then cleared me direct to an intersection then via airways to my destination.  I had already had one of the VORs tuned in.  I tuned in the other to verify the intersection, but in reality, I was in IMC, flying through a cold front (e.g., very bumpy) and I used the GPS to pick my direct route to the intersection.  And sure enough, as I got close to the intersection, the OBS needles swung down just as they were suppose to.   The purpose of the post was to illustrate that, yes, every once in a while you might be asked to fly direct to an intersection.  It’s easy with a GPS.  However, if I didn’t have it, I would have requested a vector to intersect the airway, then to the intersection, just to make sure that I was heading in the right initial direction.  Flying a relatively straight line direct to an intersection without RNAV is certainly possible, but I it takes alot of attention.  In single pilot IFR, sometimes there isn’t that much attention left over. — The opinions expressed herein are my own.  They do not necessarily represent those of my employer, my accountant, my wife, . . .

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You bet it’s ok!  Remember that atc isn’t really too concerned with HOW you get there; they figure if you ask you are capable of navigating.  I very often file off route, or direct and in fact they offer it (direct) when I don’t or sometimes I get clearance via radar vectors.  Life (IFR) in the west is nice! kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

Response:

Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

Sure, if you have an IFR approved GPS, Loran, or RNAV and you have filed /R or /G.

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Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ? Sure, if you have an IFR approved GPS, Loran, or RNAV and you have filed /R or /G.Why is that?  I have gone direct to an intersection (using 2 VORs) with no

technical problem.  So is there something about being off Victor airways? Since I fly in the northeast above 1200′, I was always in controlled space. This is always VFR and I am always talking with ATC.  Thanks for the lesson! –Bill — William W. Plummer,  7 Country Club Dr.,  Chelmsford, MA  01824-4505

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Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

Response:

Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

Sure, set an approximate heading from where you are (you do know that I hope) to the intersection.  Dial in the two vor’s (if it’s identified by two) and watch the obs.  As either radial moves closer to center as you get to the intersection fly away from it until the other moves also.   Then bracket both if you can.  This is assuming you’re flying into the large part of the "V" formed by the two radials.  I’m sure you can come up with many other types of intersections where you will need another technique.  I doubt that you’ll get a direct to an intersection clearance unless you’re a /G or /R but I guess it could be possible.   Dead rekon to where you need to be, and use whatever equipment you have to track your course.  (dme and a single vor spinning the obs works too). Stan

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You would be wise to stay clear of Pax River NAS —  it is the Navy’s flight test facility!  –Bill I always talk to their tower.  They’re pretty nice there about coordinating transits of the restricted areas even when they are hot.   One of our favorite stops is Tangier Island which sits right smack in the middle of that mess.

Ah, would that it were so with Edwards AFB… -Paul

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Are there such things as airways which go through R-areas?  Around here, all the airways seem to circumnavigate the R’s.

Certainly are.  Take a look at V263, it runs smack dab through the middle of the Camp David Restricted Area.  Also, take a look at PAX River (lower Chesapeake Bay).

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Are there such things as airways which go through R-areas?  Around here, all the airways seem to circumnavigate the R’s. Certainly are.  Take a look at V263, it runs smack dab through the middle of the Camp David Restricted Area.  Also, take a look at PAX River (lower Chesapeake Bay).You would be wise to stay clear of Pax River NAS — it is the Navy’s flight test facility!  –Bill

– William W. Plummer,  7 Country Club Dr.,  Chelmsford, MA  01824-4505

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You would be wise to stay clear of Pax River NAS —  it is the Navy’s flight test facility!  –Bill

I always talk to their tower.  They’re pretty nice there about coordinating transits of the restricted areas even when they are hot.   One of our favorite stops is Tangier Island which sits right smack in the middle of that mess.

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2.  If your proposed route will take you through a restricted aera YOU not  ATC is responsible for obtaining information as to activity in this airspace.  Then obtain the proper clearance from the controling authority if the airspace is hot.  This permission is obtained for you from ATC if you are flying on an airway which passes through restricted airspace. Are there such things as airways which go through R-areas?  Around here, all the airways seem to circumnavigate the R’s.

YES, THERE ARE.  EXAMPLES: J110 GOES FROM FRIANT (FRA) VOR NEAR FRESNO THROUGH R-2508 TO THE BOULDER CITY (BLD) VOR NEAR LAS VEGAS. J56 GOES FROM MINA (MVA) VOR THROUGH R-6405, R-6407, AND R-6406A TO SALT LAKE CITY (SLC) VOR. J136 GOES FROM BATTLE GROUND (BTG) VOR NEAR PORTLAND THROUGH R-6714A/B/C/D/E TO SPOKANE (GEG) VOR. AND SO FORTH… —- P. Schoberg, ATP, CFII, MEI Bakersfield, CA  USA

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2.  If your proposed route will take you through a restricted aera YOU not  ATC is responsible for obtaining information as to activity in this airspace.  Then obtain the proper clearance from the controling authority if the airspace is hot.  This permission is obtained for you from ATC if you are flying on an airway which passes through restricted airspace.

If you’re IFR, I’d bet that you wouldn’t be cleared into a hot restricted area, even if you’re off-airways.  And if your clearance includes a cut through a hot restricted area and you lose comm before you enter, are you brave/stupid enough to have assumed that all activity there has been halted because you’re squawking 7600? Are there such things as airways which go through R-areas?  Around here, all the airways seem to circumnavigate the R’s.

V25 near Hunter Liggett goes through R2504 — that’s on the Jepp US(LO)3 chart.  I’m sure there’s at least one or two other examples.  In the case of V25, there’s also a V248 that circumnavigates the restricted area. I’ve often been cleared for V25 and gotten a radar vector for the restricted. If I lost comm, I’d swing east to make sure I missed the restricted area; they’ve got me on radar, and it should be pretty obvious what I’m doing. And this is yet another good place for VFR GPSes — it’s nice to keep the required (yes, it’s required for IFR traffic, at least according to the ATC I talked to last time) 3 miles away from the boundaries. —     Free time?  There’s no such thing.  It just comes in varying prices…

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2.  If your proposed route will take you through a restricted aera YOU not  ATC is responsible for obtaining information as to activity in this airspace.  Then obtain the proper clearance from the controling authority if the airspace is hot.  This permission is obtained for you from ATC if you are flying on an airway which passes through restricted airspace.

Are there such things as airways which go through R-areas?  Around here, all the airways seem to circumnavigate the R’s. — New York University School of Medicine Copyright 1997 Roy Smith For-profit redistribution prohibited

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Feb 1997 17:24:59 GMT writes: : :I found an interesting bit of information regarding the clearance direct to :an intersection while attending a two day seminar on IFR GPS’s.  In the :past it was considered usefull to file vfr loran or GPS in the remarks box. :Then after receiving an on airway clearance ask ATC to proceed direct to a :point, ( intersection, vor, or airport) and if traffic permitted your :request would be granted.  This is not legal however and the reply from ATC :might be, "how do you intend to navigate to this point".  If your reply is :via vfr GPS or loran you may be in trouble. Yeah, but you can always answer "Dead reckoning with VOR cross checks."  The

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This is quite common in the Western U.S. where skies are blue and the controllers all wear bolo ties.

And a space the size of New Jersey contains exactly 3 airways, 2 intersections, and 1 airplane — New York University School of Medicine Copyright 1997 Roy Smith For-profit redistribution prohibited

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I found an interesting bit of information regarding the clearance direct to an intersection while attending a two day seminar on IFR GPS’s.  In the past it was considered usefull to file vfr loran or GPS in the remarks box. Then after receiving an on airway clearance ask ATC to proceed direct to a point, ( intersection, vor, or airport) and if traffic permitted your request would be granted.  This is not legal however and the reply from ATC might be, "how do you intend to navigate to this point".  If your reply is via vfr GPS or loran you may be in trouble.

Mike,    I’ve corrected the clearances that I’ve received from controllers because of this point.  It may not be legal for me to use a VFR GPS to navigate "direct" (e.g., RNAV direct) to a point in space.  However, I can legally accept "fly vector 110, then direct IGN VOR when able". When I call for the amended clearance, I specify that I have a VFR GPS and then request a specific clearance (e.g., vectors xxx, then direct yyy when able).  It helps that I tell them in the request the vector that I want.    It helps that almost all of my flying is in the Northeast (no mountains and very good radar coverage) so vectors (except for traffic) are usually not a problem.  My only complaint so far is that on long legs, my great circle vector is usually 3 or 4 degrees off of what the controller expects.  But that is because their equipment doesn’t do great circle calculations. — The opinions expressed herein are my own.  They do not necessarily represent those of my employer, my accountant, my wife, . . .

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found an interesting bit of information regarding the clearance direct to an intersection while attending a two day seminar on IFR GPS’s.  In the past it was considered usefull to file vfr loran or GPS in the remarks box. Then after receiving an on airway clearance ask ATC to proceed direct to a point, ( intersection, vor, or airport) and if traffic permitted your request would be granted.  This is not legal however and the reply from ATC might be, "how do you intend to navigate to this point".  If your reply is via vfr GPS or loran you may be in trouble. Another point to consider if you are fortunate enough to have one of those IFR approved boxes and file a direct to clearance you have a couple of options to consider. 1.  Be sure to specifiy a fix within 200nm of each centers airspace that you will be passing through. This      is necessary for atc to plot your route through their airspace. 2.  If your proposed route will take you through a restricted aera YOU not ATC is responsible for obtaining information as to activity in this airspace.  Then obtain the proper clearance from the controling authority if the airspace is hot.  This permission is obtained for you from ATC  if you are flying on an airway which passes through restricted airspace.

Am I responsible for obtaining restricted area clearances when ifr flying vor direct?  I guess no, but what’s the official answer here? MD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Kaufman Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

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Another way to get direct to an intersection is the good old radar vector method. A/C:  "Mugwump Approach, request direct to HADES." ATC:  "Bugmasher 567, fly heading 100, direct HADES when able,        rest of the route unchanged." Then fly the heading and use the dual VOR nav idea, which has previously been described on the newsgroup, flying into the center of the "V" formed by the two radials.  [You can do it single VOR as well, just takes a lot of quick tuning -- a flip- flop radio is nice for this.] You’re never really "able" to go direct until you’re established on one of the defining radials.  Hopefully, you’ll intersect both of them exactly at the same time, when arriving at the intersection.  Then continue your clearance from there. This is quite common in the Western U.S. where skies are blue and the controllers all wear bolo ties. —- P. Schoberg, ATP, CFII, MEI Bakersfield, CA  USA

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I found an interesting bit of information regarding the clearance direct to an intersection while attending a two day seminar on IFR GPS’s.  In the past it was considered usefull to file vfr loran or GPS in the remarks box. Then after receiving an on airway clearance ask ATC to proceed direct to a point, ( intersection, vor, or airport) and if traffic permitted your request would be granted.  This is not legal however and the reply from ATC might be, "how do you intend to navigate to this point".  If your reply is via vfr GPS or loran you may be in trouble. Another point to consider if you are fortunate enough to have one of those IFR approved boxes and file a direct to clearance you have a couple of options to consider. 1.  Be sure to specifiy a fix within 200nm of each centers airspace that you will be passing through. This      is necessary for atc to plot your route through their airspace. 2.  If your proposed route will take you through a restricted aera YOU not ATC is responsible for obtaining information as to activity in this airspace.  Then obtain the proper clearance from the controling authority if the airspace is hot.  This permission is obtained for you from ATC  if you are flying on an airway which passes through restricted airspace. Mike Kaufman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it possible to proceed direct to a published intersection without following one of the intersecting airways ?

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Question:

The Fascism running rampant in this country is delineated in: "Drug Warriors and Their Prey: From Police Power to Police State" by Richard Lawrence Miller , Praeger ISBN 0-275-95042-5 This is a thoroughly researched historical parallel between Nazi law and modern drug law, between the searching out of Jews and the searching out of drug users, between the denial of employment to Jews and the denial of employment to drug users, between the confiscation of Jewish property and the confiscation of drug users’ property, between the incarceration of 1% of the German population, and the incarceration of hundreds of thousands of drug users and distributors. Miller points to the use of the Jews in the development of the Nazi state. "Jews," as a category of people, served as a focus for fears that were used to justify the expansion of state powers. He points out that a critical step in finding   a solution to "the Jewish question," or "the Jewish problem," was the creation of a consensus among Germans that there WAS a Jewish problem. "Jews" were said to cause crime, spread disease by sexual promiscuity, and undermine economic productivity. It was said that "Jews" were terrorists and created emergencies that warranted powerful new laws. Bureaucratic rivals within the German state competed for power, prestige, and resources by developing newer or more dramatic anti-Jewish measures than their opponents.  Political rivals within the Nazi establishment competed for attention in making new claims that the  "Jews" were a threat, that they were creating a crisis in German society that demanded a solution. Similarly, the contemporary need to find a solution to the drug "problem" has been carefully constructed, with the assistance of the news media, the educational establishment, business groups, and special interests. There is, however, no moral or constitutional justification for present policies that attempt to define an entire "troublesome" class of people (drug users), persecute them, and banish them from society. Most of the above text was written by Eric Sterling and E.J. Pagel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is the 2nd law in as few weeks.  Clinton appears to be trying to set a precedent..  one of dictator like powers against State reforms passed directly by voters.   This threatens the most damage to our form of government yet.   Got to love the little fascist. White House taking steps against marijuana laws Nando.net & Reuter Information Service WASHINGTON (Dec 29, 1996) – Doctors in California and Arizona who prescribe illegal drugs like marijuana to patients under new state laws could lose their licenses and be prosecuted, a top Clinton administration official said on Sunday. National Drug Control Policy Director Barry McCaffrey also warned federal workers on CBS Television’s "Face the Nation" program they would still be breaking the law if they used marijuana or heroin prescribed by doctors. McCaffrey was outlining a plan approved by President Bill Clinton to combat propositions passed by voters in California and Arizona last month to allow some medical use of drugs such as marijuana, in what he described as "a hoax referendum." "We are concerned because in essence we see it as quasi-legalisation of drugs," he said. "We see it as an indication of potential increased drug abuse in these two states." The details of the plan will be made public on Monday. McCaffrey, who headed an interagency working group to coordinate a broad-based government-wide response, said the government was confident most doctors would not prescribe illegal drugs. "We have an honest confidence in American medicine," he said. "I’m not suggesting there won’t be a reasonably few unscrupulous doctors. But federal law will still be upheld. Those who violate the law lend themselves vulnerable to prosecution." "We are committed to a non-drugged, non-stoned America," he added.

In the end people get the government they deserve. Read "The Weapon Shops of Isher" by A.E. vanVogt Simon

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: ::                   Gov’t Confirms DNC Asian Plan :: :: WASHINGTON (AP) — A leading fund-raiser for the Democratic :: National Committee helped devise a strategy to raise $7 million from :: Asian-Americans, promising in some cases face-to-face meetings with :: President Clinton, a White House official confirmed today. The :: unprecedented goal of raising the $7 million in funds was laid out in :: a  “National Asian Pacific American Campaign Plan,” which was :: included among 3,000 pages of the committee’s records made public over :: the last week. The 33-page document outlines community outreach :: programs and includes a chapter on fund raising, White House special :: counsel Lanny Davis said in an interview today. : :: The recently released records, most of them from the files of John :: Huang, . . . : : Why not just elect an Asian to be the president of the United States? : Now, that’s a New World Order! : : Jai Maharaj : Om Shanti : Why not?  Couldn’t do much worse than the presidents we’ve had for : the last 30+ years or so.. As long as a provably corrupt politician from an Asian country is not given a safe-haven in the White House, of course.  Imagine the former leaders of S. Korea, the politicians involved in criminal trials in Bharat (that is, India), or Imelda Marcos in power in the US! Jai Maharaj Om Shanti

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:                   Gov’t Confirms DNC Asian Plan : WASHINGTON (AP) — A leading fund-raiser for the Democratic : National Committee helped devise a strategy to raise $7 million from : Asian-Americans, promising in some cases face-to-face meetings with : President Clinton, a White House official confirmed today. The : unprecedented goal of raising the $7 million in funds was laid out in : a  “National Asian Pacific American Campaign Plan,” which was : included among 3,000 pages of the committee’s records made public over : the last week. The 33-page document outlines community outreach : programs and includes a chapter on fund raising, White House special : counsel Lanny Davis said in an interview today. : The recently released records, most of them from the files of John : Huang, . . . Why not just elect an Asian to be the president of the United States? Now, that’s a New World Order! Jai Maharaj Om Shanti

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :                   Gov’t Confirms DNC Asian Plan : WASHINGTON (AP) — A leading fund-raiser for the Democratic : National Committee helped devise a strategy to raise $7 million from : Asian-Americans, promising in some cases face-to-face meetings with : President Clinton, a White House official confirmed today. The : unprecedented goal of raising the $7 million in funds was laid out in : a  “National Asian Pacific American Campaign Plan,” which was : included among 3,000 pages of the committee’s records made public over : the last week. The 33-page document outlines community outreach : programs and includes a chapter on fund raising, White House special : counsel Lanny Davis said in an interview today. : The recently released records, most of them from the files of John : Huang, . . . Why not just elect an Asian to be the president of the United States? Now, that’s a New World Order! Jai Maharaj Om Shanti

Why not?  Couldn’t do much worse than the presidents we’ve had for the last 30+ years or so..

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From Todays LA times:    But Al Chavez, a member of the Democratic Central    Committee in Orange County and a longtime volunteer in    Latino community organizations, accused Hermandad, and    particularly its director, Nativo Lopez, of exploiting immigrants    who lack education and experience in the U.S. political system.    "The whole Hermandad organization is a money-making    situation for him," Chavez said. "He’s very much building a    political machine, and for some reason, very few people are    willing to speak up about it." Max Kennedy

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                  Gov’t Confirms DNC Asian Plan WASHINGTON (AP) — A leading fund-raiser for the Democratic National Committee helped devise a strategy to raise $7 million from Asian-Americans, promising in some cases face-to-face meetings with President Clinton, a White House official confirmed today. The unprecedented goal of raising the $7 million in funds was laid out in a  “National Asian Pacific American Campaign Plan,” which was included among 3,000 pages of the committee’s records made public over the last week. The 33-page document outlines community outreach programs and includes a chapter on fund raising, White House special counsel Lanny Davis said in an interview today. The recently released records, most of them from the files of John Huang, the committee’s chief fund-raiser in Asian-American communities, suggest the White House illegally took part in fund raising and campaign activities. In addition, the party’s goal of raising the money may have helped create a high-pressure atmosphere that led to at least $1.2 million in improper donations. The plan, developed by Huang, gave invitations to the White House to members of the Asian Pacific American Leadership Council, or those giving at least $10,000 and companies that gave at least $15,000 to the Democratic Committee. The strategy was to “reward A.P.A.L.C. members by inviting them to special White House or other events” with the president and to “solicit input,” Davis said, quoting DNC records. In addition, the campaign plan says the White House would be responsible for finding donors from around the country, Davis said. But a White House official says the administration only directed potential donors to the DNC — White House officials didn’t engage in fund raising. “Of course we invite friends, supporters and donors to White House events,” said the White House official, who requested anonymity. “But we do not invite them in exchange for contributions.” There is no evidence suggesting that the donors won changes in policy even though meetings often featured discussions of Clinton’s policies toward Asian nations, especially China. As pressure to raise money intensified to pay for television commercials and other campaign expenses, Huang took donations improperly from foreign corporations and from people who were neither American citizens nor foreign citizens living legally in the United States. In total, at least $1.2 million of the $3.4 million raised by Huang came from questionable sources and has been returned. The money has become the greatest sum to come under federal investigation since President Richard Nixon’s 1972 re-election drive.

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This is the 2nd law in as few weeks.  Clinton appears to be trying to set a precedent..  one of dictator like powers against State reforms passed directly by voters.   This threatens the most damage to our form of government yet.   Got to love the little fascist. White House taking steps against marijuana laws Nando.net & Reuter Information Service WASHINGTON (Dec 29, 1996) – Doctors in California and Arizona who prescribe illegal drugs like marijuana to patients under new state laws could lose their licenses and be prosecuted, a top Clinton administration official said on Sunday. National Drug Control Policy Director Barry McCaffrey also warned federal workers on CBS Television’s "Face the Nation" program they would still be breaking the law if they used marijuana or heroin prescribed by doctors. McCaffrey was outlining a plan approved by President Bill Clinton to combat propositions passed by voters in California and Arizona last month to allow some medical use of drugs such as marijuana, in what he described as "a hoax referendum." "We are concerned because in essence we see it as quasi-legalisation of drugs," he said. "We see it as an indication of potential increased drug abuse in these two states." The details of the plan will be made public on Monday. McCaffrey, who headed an interagency working group to coordinate a broad-based government-wide response, said the government was confident most doctors would not prescribe illegal drugs. "We have an honest confidence in American medicine," he said. "I’m not suggesting there won’t be a reasonably few unscrupulous doctors. But federal law will still be upheld. Those who violate the law lend themselves vulnerable to prosecution." "We are committed to a non-drugged, non-stoned America," he added.

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It is a happy occasion, though, to see weasels like this guy show their faces and brazenly proclaim their snake oil in public so that people like us can take aim and fire.

Fire with what?  People like you pass gun control laws so people like you can confiscate wealth via government. Max Kennedy

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Donor’s Actions Raise New Questions on Buying Access to President December 27, 1996 By STEPHEN LABATON New York Times WASHINGTON — A large contributor of questionable donations to the Democratic Party

They were not questionable.  They were illegal. And just like a mugger who is caught, and gives back the goods when he is caught, he is still just as guilty of the original mugging. Indict.  Convict.  And Jail the whole DNC if need be.   Max Kennedy

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Sunday, December 29, 1996 Details Emerge of Clinton Fund-Raising Involvement    Politics: White House statements have changed since election. Administration says it is trying for full disclosure. By GLENN F. BUNTING, ALAN C. MILLER, Times Staff Writers      WASHINGTON–During the Watergate investigation two decades ago, it was Sen. Howard H. Baker Jr. (R-Tenn.) who made famous the question: "What did he know and when did he know it?"       This year it was Bill Clinton rather than Richard Nixon who was seeking four more years in the White House, and Baker’s question developed a new twist: "What did he do and when did he admit it?"       It is becoming increasingly evident as each week goes by that Clinton was a major participant in the Democratic Party’s efforts–some of it in violation of federal law prohibiting foreign contributions–to raise an enormous war chest for the 1996 presidential election campaign.      Equally clear is that Clinton and his aides admitted almost nothing until his reelection was signed, sealed and delivered.      As a candidate seeking reelection, Clinton kept far out of range of reporters’ questions. Officials in his administration responded by pointing fingers in the direction of the Democratic National Committee and maintaining that the president had played no role in his party’s questionable fund-raising practices.      Since the Nov. 5 election, however, new disclosures provide strong indications that the president, his administration and Democratic Party officials withheld a wide range of potentially damaging information about foreign-linked campaign contributions before Clinton won another four-year term, records and interviews show.      In the weeks before the election, top White House, party and Commerce Department officials provided misleading accounts while also declining to release important details that probably would have intensified criticism of Clinton and the Democratic Party.      Just Saturday, the White House was forced to acknowledge a detailed plan to coordinate efforts by the White House, Clinton’s reelection campaign and the Democratic National Committee to boost the president’s standing among Asian Americans–at the same time that the party was aiming to raise as much as $7 million from this community.      "I’ve been around this town for 30 years and I’ve never seen a group raise stonewalling to such an art form," said Stephen Hess, a Brookings Institution scholar on politics and the presidency. "This is nothing new for the Clintons . . . but they may ultimately pay a very heavy price for it."      The portrait of Clinton now emerging depicts a president very much involved in his party’s money-making activities: Clinton presiding over an Oval Office meeting at which the first step is taken to hire a DNC fund-raiser to solicit contributions from Asian-Americans, Clinton meeting over coffee in the White House with small groups of potential big foreign contributors, Clinton chatting privately with major foreign donors at fund-raising banquets in glitzy Washington hotels.      Administration officials resent any comparison with the Watergate cover-up, which caused Nixon to become the only president in U.S. history to resign. They insist that they did their best during the hectic weeks before the election to provide accurate and timely information about Democratic fund-raising practices.      "We are taking hits now that we were conniving, Nixonian stonewallers only because we were in the middle of a national campaign and we didn’t have the resources to respond to this story," said White House Press Secretary Mike McCurry.      Fund-Raiser’s Visits Described as ‘Social’      Consider the case of John Huang, the onetime Los Angeles executive for a multibillion-dollar Indonesian conglomerate called the Lippo Group, who became a Commerce Department bureaucrat and then a champion political fund-raiser for the Democratic Party.      Before the Nov. 5 election, White House officials portrayed Clinton’s relationship with Huang and the Jakarta-based Riady family, which owns the Lippo Group, as primarily "social." Only after the election did Clinton and his assistants reveal that Huang and the Riadys had far more than casual chitchat on their agenda in private meetings and personal correspondence with the president.      At the national committee, officials initially concealed the extent to which Huang participated in soliciting more than $1 million in dubious and, sometimes, illegal donations from foreign sources that party officials later returned.      In early October, reporters began peppering administration officials with inquiries about Clinton’s ties to Huang and James T. Riady, the son of Lippo’s top official. Huang had received $879,000 in 1994 from the Riady family when he left the Lippo Group and joined the Clinton administration’s Commerce Department as a mid-level bureaucrat. The Riadys and Clintons have been friends since their Little Rock days. Lippo executives had contributed $475,000 to the Democratic Party since 1991.      On Oct. 15, White House deputy counsel Bruce Lindsey told The Times in a telephone interview that an Oval Office meeting he attended with Clinton, Huang and Riady in September 1995 was "basically a drop-by social visit" that included no discussion of substantive policy issues.      At the time, two lawyers assigned to the White House damage-control unit established to handle the Whitewater controversy, expressed their concerns to colleagues about Lindsey’s portrayal of the Clinton-Riady-Huang meetings. The lawyers, Jane Sherburne and Mark D. Fabiani, advocated describing the meetings "more fully" to include matters of substance that were discussed, according to senior administration officials. These officials said that Lindsey argued against providing a more complete accounting of the meetings.      Lindsey, a former Little Rock attorney who is perhaps the president’s closest advisor, said recently in a written response to questions submitted by The Times that he did not advise anyone to withhold major details of the meetings. "I expressed my opinion that to describe the two meetings I attended as policy-related would be mischaracterizing those meetings," Lindsey said.      But the story changed after election day. Ten days later, Clinton disclosed to the New York Times that he and Riady twice talked about U.S. policy toward Asia. In early December, the White House released a three-page letter from Riady’s father, Mochtar, urging the president to establish normal relations with Vietnam, a country in which the Lippo Group was making extensive investments. Several top White House aides had known about the letter before the election but had said nothing publicly, according to a senior administration official.      White House officials also disclosed after the election that Huang mentioned the idea of taking a Democratic fund-raising post during his September 1995 meeting with Clinton. On Nov. 25, officials of the national committee said, the president instructed White House aide Harold M. Ickes to follow through on Huang’s proposal. This suggests that Clinton was more deeply involved in Huang’s hiring as a fund-raiser than the White House had let on during the campaign.      Deflecting the Spotlight      Throughout most of the campaign, according to McCurry, no one at the White House was directly in charge of responding to reporters’ queries about fund-raising practices.      "We were clearly trying to push this onto the DNC to respond and keep it away from the president and the campaign trail," he said.      It was not until Oct. 30, six days before the election, that McCurry was assigned responsibility for managing the White House response to the foreign-money scandal. On the day before the election, McCurry alerted some reporters that James Riady had made between 14 and 20 trips to the White House.      "I felt a moral obligation to get some of this out by election day and, by God, I did," McCurry said. "Granted, it was at the last minute."      Ten days after the election, by contrast, McCurry conducted lengthy briefings for major news organizations on the precise number and nature of White House visits by Huang and Riady. Secret Service entry logs and interviews of White House personnel showed that Riady saw Clinton six times during his 20 visits to the White House and Huang saw Clinton 15 times during his 94 visits.      At the time, McCurry said that he had been authorized by Clinton to release all pertinent facts about any White House involvement with foreign donors. "At some point, our goal here obviously is to dump all this stuff, flush the toilet and say it’s all one big argument for campaign finance reform," McCurry said.      Defending the Defense Fund      Only on Dec. 17 did the White House disclose that the president’s defense fund, which was organized last year to help the president and First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton pay their mounting legal bills for Whitewater and other matters, had returned more than $600,000 in donations that did not meet the defense fund’s own rules.      The donations, purporting to come from a range of the Clintons’ supporters, were bundled together by a longtime Clinton friend, Taiwanese American businessman Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie of Little Rock. Trie had delivered the checks, many of which were in sequential order and in the same handwriting–in manila envelopes to the president’s lawyers in April.      Even though the Clintons were told that the checks were returned to Trie in June, the White House kept the information a secret during the campaign. Trie has acknowledged that he is among several Asian American donors who have made improper donations to the Democratic National Committee.      Justice Department prosecutors investigating the fund-raising scandal issued subpoenas to the White House in mid-December seeking records in connection with the defense fund.      About the

… read more »

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WASHINGTON & WORLD Six White House Aides Hedged On Returning Legal-Fund Donations A month after learning about suspicious donations to the first family’s legal defense fund, six senior White House aides met with the fund’s director and expressed concerns about offending donors if the money was returned, officials confirmed. The high-level meeting on May 9, which is likely to draw the interest of investigators, included the president’s most trusted adviser, Bruce Lindsey, and Hillary Rodham Clinton’s chief of staff, Margaret Williams. Quick Gingrich Action Sought. The chairwoman of the House ethics committee, Rep. Nancy Johnson, R-Conn., says she hopes her panel can rule on admitted violations by Speaker Newt Gingrich before a vote on his re-election as presiding officer on Jan. 7. Asians Fund Congressional Travel. Asian interests, whose political contributions made headlines during the presidential election, also were aggressively courting members of Congress this year with free trips, an Associated Press review shows. Lawmakers and their staffs rang up $1.6 million worth of excursions to Asia for ‘fact-finding.” That’s more than a third of the $4.6 million in free foreign and domestic trips accepted in 1996. Democrat Scores Party Funding. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, usually a party loyalist, criticized the Senate Democrats’ fund-raising organization for helping to finance the election campaigns of California state legislators.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gov’t Worker Found Dead Saturday, November 30, 1996 3:46 am EST WASHINGTON (AP) — A Commerce Department employee was found dead in her fourth-floor office at the agency’s downtown headquarters on Friday. The body was discovered around 7:45 a.m. by a co-worker arriving for work, police said. The woman was identified as Barbara Alice Wise, 48, of Gambrills, Md. She had worked as a secretary for 14 years at the department’s International Trade Administration. Anne Luzzatto, chief spokeswoman for Commerce Secretary Mickey Kantor, said the unit where she worked provided analysis for various industries in studies designed to boost export sales. The woman had been last seen alive at Commerce late Wednesday afternoon, before the agency closed for the Thanksgiving holiday. Sgt. Michael Farish, a homicide investigator with District of Columbia police, said officers have found no signs of foul play and believe that she died of natural causes. But the case continued to be investigated as a homicide, he said. A preliminary autopsy was unable to determine the cause of death Friday. A local television station, WRC, quoted unidentified police sources as saying that the office where the body was found was locked and the body was partially nude. +–+–+ Charisma: by which vermin are drawn to putrescence.

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Gov’t Worker Found Dead Saturday, November 30, 1996 3:46 am EST WASHINGTON (AP) — A Commerce Department employee was found dead in her fourth-floor office at the agency’s downtown headquarters on Friday. The body was discovered around 7:45 a.m. by a co-worker arriving for work, police said. The woman was identified as Barbara Alice Wise, 48, of Gambrills, Md. She had worked as a secretary for 14 years at the department’s International Trade Administration. Anne Luzzatto, chief spokeswoman for Commerce Secretary Mickey Kantor, said the unit where she worked provided analysis for various industries in studies designed to boost export sales. The woman had been last seen alive at Commerce late Wednesday afternoon, before the agency closed for the Thanksgiving holiday. Sgt. Michael Farish, a homicide investigator with District of Columbia police, said officers have found no signs of foul play and believe that she died of natural causes. But the case continued to be investigated as a homicide, he said. A preliminary autopsy was unable to determine the cause of death Friday. A local television station, WRC, quoted unidentified police sources as saying that the office where the body was found was locked and the body was partially nude.

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The U.S. Triumph Of Workers’ Capitalism UHLENKAMP Capitalism has done what Karl Marx expected communism to do: In the U.S. today, workers are the owners. They just don’t know it yet. Investor’s Business Daily As reflected in literature from Charles Dickens to Studs Terkel, people have always viewed themselves as workers. As workers, they think of themselves in direct competition with owners and managers for a share of the wealth created by business enterprise. They see the return for their efforts in the form of a weekly or semimonthly paycheck, and often conclude their pay would be greater if only the owners took less. People naturally think in terms of net, ”take home” pay, money which is then spent on the day-to-day necessities and luxuries of life. Yet ”take home” pay is only a part of the benefits received for work. Other items, whether deducted from gross pay, such as taxes, or those not appearing on the pay stub at all, such as medical insurance or pension benefits, are much less tangible, and are often taken for granted or ignored by the worker. Yet, the least tangible part of the paycheck, the pension benefit, has resulted in American workers owning a major portion of the business assets of the U.S. The growth in pension and retirement assets has been so great that Peter Drucker calls wage earners ”the only true capitalists in developed countries today.” According to Pension & Investments Age, at year-end 1995, the 100 largest U.S. pension funds had assets exceeding $2 trillion. Of these 100 funds, only 41 were corporate-related. The aggregate market value of the 41 sponsoring companies was $1.2 trillion. Thus, the 100 largest pension funds could easily own all of the shares of the 41 companies. Individually, the employee pension funds of 14 of these corporations exceeded the total market value of their respective stocks. Thus, the employees of General Motors, through their pension plan, could buy all of the stock of their company. So could the employees of Boeing, Ford, USX, Lockheed Martin, Westinghouse, Delta Air Lines, and others. Of the 100 largest pension plans not company related, most are plans for public employees. The California Public Employees Retirement Plan exceeded $92 billion, an amount sufficient to buy all the stock of General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford. Similarly, the Pennsylvania School Employees Retirement Plan, at over $30 billion, could have bought out USX, Alcoa, USAir, and Westinghouse. The list goes on and on. Though the workers seem unaware of their ownership status, management is waking up. Directors and managers see huge blocks of ”their” stock in the hands of (potentially non-friendly) pension funds and mutual funds, so they try to maintain their positions of power and influence with various ”poison pills” and so-called shareholder-rights plans. Managers sometimes literally buy off unfriendly holders through greenmail payments or share repurchase. Much has been made of the push in recent years for a greater focus on shareholder values, frequently resulting in corporate cutbacks, including large layoffs. But the public is unaware that these major pension plans have been the aggressive drivers of this trend. Take CalPERS, the California public worker’s fund. In each of the past several years, it has targeted a number of major companies, pushing for greater efficiencies and greater profitability. Targets have included General Motors, Eastman Kodak, Westinghouse and others. The pressure has resulted in the firings of chief executives and whole tiers of corporate managers. This was done in the name, and for the benefit, of workers’ pensions. In the U.S., in 1996, we have attained worker capitalism. Workers can paraphrase Pogo in saying, ”We have met the owners, and they are us.” Ronald H. Muhlenkamp is portfolio manager of the Muhlenkamp Fund.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The U.S. Triumph Of Workers’ Capitalism UHLENKAMP Capitalism has done what Karl Marx expected communism to do: In the U.S. today, workers are the owners. They just don’t know it yet. Investor’s Business Daily As reflected in literature from Charles Dickens to Studs Terkel, people have always viewed themselves as workers. As workers, they think of themselves in direct competition with owners and managers for a share of the wealth created by business enterprise. They see the return for their efforts in the form of a weekly or semimonthly paycheck, and often conclude their pay would be greater if only the owners took less. =clipped=

 This was done in the name, and for the benefit, of workers’ pensions. In the U.S., in 1996, we have attained worker capitalism. Workers can paraphrase Pogo in saying, ”We have met the owners, and they are us.” Ronald H. Muhlenkamp is portfolio manager of the Muhlenkamp Fund.

And when was the last time the fund managers asked the true owners of that money for their input? My own employer manages the pension fund through their holding company but after 12 years I have yet to be approached by the shareholders for my opinion of their use of MY money. Ian Mathers YK NT Canada

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And when was the last time the fund managers asked the true owners of that money for their input? My own employer manages the pension fund through their holding company but after 12 years I have yet to be approached by the shareholders for my opinion of their use of MY money.

That could change at a moments notice.   On the other hand, it was one of the "corporate raiders" that was forming "shareholder rights" organizations.  Something left out of the mainstream news. Max Kennedy

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According to Pension & Investments Age, at year-end 1995, the 100 largest U.S. pension funds had assets exceeding $2 trillion. Of these 100 funds, only 41 were corporate-related. The aggregate market value of the 41 sponsoring companies was $1.2 trillion.

That is amazing.  It just shows that we are today in a period of mutualistic capitalism.  It’s not some sort of dog-eat-dog world where the bosses exploit their workers (in today’s society nobody would work for them), its a system where everyone can benefit if they want to. From Max to Max, thanks for posting this. Max Jacobs

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WASHINGTON & WORLD Asians Fund Congressional Travel. Asian interests, whose political contributions made headlines during the presidential election, also were aggressively courting members of Congress this year with free trips, an Associated Press review shows. Lawmakers and their staffs rang up $1.6 million worth of excursions to Asia for ‘fact-finding.” That’s more than a third of the $4.6 million in free foreign and domestic trips accepted in 1996.

Is this what is meant by the "emerging global economy"? Another triumph for "free market forces" I should say. Cairns

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 [most of the text was snipped] In the U.S., in 1996, we have attained worker capitalism. Workers can paraphrase Pogo in saying, ”We have met the owners, and they are us.”

This bit of false propaganda would be funny if it weren’t so insidiously false and insulting. The fact is that the working class is not and has never been in control, let alone possession of the wealth its labor turns out. The capitalists who manage these pension funds are in full control of this capital and use it in order to gamble at the stock market. Their salaries represent a cut of that money. In the end, the workers that are lucky enough to be able to retire usually wind up using only a small fraction of their contribution. This is just another scam that capitalists use to rob workers of an even larger portion of their product and at the same time foster the illusion that they, the workers, are somehow co-beneficiaries in this scheme. In reality, it simply turns them into accomplices in their own exploitation. It is a happy occasion, though, to see weasels like this guy show their faces and brazenly proclaim their snake oil in public so that people like us can take aim and fire.

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That could change at a moments notice. On the other hand, it was one of the "corporate raiders" that was forming "shareholder rights" organizations.  Something left out of the mainstream news. Max Kennedy

Professional fund managers (mutual or pension) are concerned only with annual increase in value.  The pressure to realize these gains is the driving force behind cutbacks and layoffs.  There is no consideration for ethical, environmental or societal issues. To believe that workers own or control these assets is misleading in much the same way that depositors to a bank can be said to own their meighbour’s mortgage.

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That could change at a moments notice. On the other hand, it was one of the "corporate raiders" that was forming "shareholder rights" organizations.  Something left out of the mainstream news. Max Kennedy Professional fund managers (mutual or pension) are concerned only with annual increase in value.  The pressure to realize these gains is the driving force behind cutbacks and layoffs.  There is no consideration for ethical, environmental or societal issues. To believe that workers own or control these assets is misleading in much the same way that depositors to a bank can be said to own their meighbour’s mortgage.

It’s not misleading, indeed, I think the articles comments on "anti-takeover" and "poison pill" defenses were accurate and insightful. Max Kennedy

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WASHINGTON & WORLD Asians Fund Congressional Travel. Asian interests, whose political contributions made headlines during the presidential election, also were aggressively courting members of Congress this year with free trips, an Associated Press review shows. Lawmakers and their staffs rang up $1.6 million worth of excursions to Asia for ‘fact-finding.” That’s more than a third of the $4.6 million in free foreign and domestic trips accepted in 1996. Is this what is meant by the "emerging global economy"? Another triumph for "free market forces" I should say.

The only thing that can be sold is the theft and force a government uses on it’s citizens. That is not free market. Max Kennedy

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Note: Online Edition at http://www.investors.com/ Trial paper copies are free. WORTHEN: A RIADY PIGGY BANK? Indonesian Family Bled Little Rock Lender In ’80s Author: Paul Sperry Investor’s Business Daily James Riady, the Indonesian magnate at the center of the White House fund-raising scandal, had his own ideas about banking when he and his billionaire father took over an American bank in 1984. Forget assets, he said in Worthen Banking Corp.’s annual report that year. What really matters is ”personal contacts and business connections.” That philosophy has worked well for the Riadys, one of Asia’s most successful business families. While courting world leaders – including President Clinton – they’ve built their Jakarta-based Lippo Group into a $6 billion financial empire. But, of all places, it didn’t work in Arkansas. Two years after Riady boasted of turning his sleepy Little Rock bank into a $10 billion global juggernaut, he was ousted. Riady’s global deal- cutting -most of it benefiting Lippo or its affiliates – left Worthen’s balance sheet in tatters. Worthen’s directors brought in new management after federal regulators disciplined them. The feds wished the 28-year- old Riady had paid more mind to asset quality and less to networking. But the directors were willing accomplices. After all, this was Arkansas, where wheeling and dealing is legendary. And the directors had their own ambitions: grabbing a piece of the action in the fast-growing Pacific Rim. They needed an Asian rainmaker and they found one – or at least so they thought – in Riady. In 1984, the directors named Riady president and assistant to then-chairman Edward Penick. And they gave him and his father, Mochtar, seats on the board. In fact, they elected Mochtar Riady chairman of Worthen’s executive committee after he bought a large stake in the company ee chart). At the same time, they let James Riady bring a team of Lippo workers from Jakarta and elsewhere to Little Rock. Riady set up an international division with offices in New York and Los Angeles. He put pal David Yeh in charge of the unit and paid him well. Earning $187,000, Yeh was among the five top-paid officers at Worthen. Riady brought aboard another close aide – John Huang, the poster boy of the mushrooming fund-raising scandal. Huang, who raised more than $1 million in illegal donations for the ‘96 Clinton- Gore campaign effort, was named Worthen’s vice president for the Far East in March 1985, about the same time Clinton says he first met him. Worthen was so smitten with Riady that it bought a Little Rock condo for him in 1983 and let him live there rent-free. A Worthen proxy statement at the time says the firm paid $100,000 for it. But the pot wasn’t sweet enough for Riady. He insisted on a fee for services he evidently couldn’t provide as president. So Worthen paid Riady a ”consulting” fee of $122,000 on top of his $200,000-plus salary. What’s more, the rich scion took out personal loans from Worthen totaling nearly $2 million in 1984 alone. The board was pleased with how fast Riady increased the bank’s foreign loan activity. But it didn’t bargain for so much of it coming from Riady interests. Here’s just a sample culled from Worthen proxy reports: In 1984, Worthen gave a $5 million line of credit to Bank of Central Asia, an Indonesian firm partly owned by Mochtar Riady and Seodono Salim, a golfing partner of Indonesian president Gen. Suharto. The Salim clan accounts for about 5% of the Indonesian economy. In 1984, the bank gave a $4 million line of credit to Seng Heng Bank, a Macao-based firm listing Mochtar Riady as its managing director. Also in 1984, Worthen gave a $5 million line of credit to Central Asia Capital Corp., a Hong Kong firm partly owned by Mochtar Riady and Salim. Again in 1984, Worthen granted $8 million in loans to United Pacific Trading Co., a Lippo unit. And in 1985, Worthen loaned the Riady-owned firm, P.T. Bahana Dharma Utama, $3 million to finance an office building in Indonesia. (Built in 1986, it was leased to Bank of Central Asia. Salim, Mochtar’s business partner and one-time employer, is chairman of BCA.) By 1986, state and federal examiners had seen enough insider lending at Worthen and decided to step in. They disciplined the bank for running afoul of federal laws limiting insider loans. All told, the Riadys had tapped Worthen for more than $35 million. Management was ordered to tighten the bank’s lending policies. Problem loans had led to ”poor asset quality, poor earnings and a strained capital position,” a 1986 Comptroller of the Currency report said. The bank’s stock had also taken a beating. Offshore sweetheart deals saddled Worthen with many problem loans. But they weren’t the only thing sullying the books. The locals on the board made their share of good-old-boy loans that turned sour. And the bank made some imprudent investments. For instance, in April 1985 Worthen lost nearly all of its reserve cash when a New Jersey bond firm went under with $200 million in losses from high-risk loans called ”repos.” Worthen had held $52 million of the repos, on which it had failed to secure the collateral. And it all happened on Riady’s watch. Shortly after the stinging Comptroller’s report in ‘86, Worthen’s board eased Riady out and replaced him with Curtis Bradbury, a senior executive. Bradbury, who later became chairman and chief executive, got the bank back on terra firma before it was bought out in 1995. Boatmen’s Bancshares of St. Louis paid $580 million for Worthen, which had about $1.7 billion in assets at the time. Between 1984 and 1987, James and Mochtar Riady had reduced their combined Worthen stock holdings from 23% to 15%. By 1988, both Riadys had left the board and sold their Worthen shares, losing millions of dollars. Also, Worthen fired the high-priced Yeh in late 1986 and dissolved his short-lived Worthen Bank International unit, officially closing off the Riadys’ personal pipeline to Jakarta and Hong Kong. Ironically, the Riadys’ formed their own U.S. bank from the ashes of WBI’s Los Angeles branch. Worthen sold them the loan portfolio (worth $2 million) and transferred the office lease to them, a 1987 proxy says. And LippoBank of California (first dubbed the Bank of Trade) was born. Huang left with Riady to run the new Lippo venture in Los Angeles. But it, too, has had problems – as the Indonesian clan continues to struggle with U.S. banking laws. LippoBank in Los Angeles has received two cease-and-desist orders from the FDIC for violations of money-laundering statutes and ”hazardous lending.” One 1994 order cites Lippo’s failure to report transactions over $10,000, keep adequate money order records and report suspected criminal activity at branches.

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Donor’s Actions Raise New Questions on Buying Access to President  December 27, 1996  By STEPHEN LABATON New York Times  WASHINGTON — A large contributor of questionable donations to the Democratic Party brought one of Asia’s wealthiest business executives to meet with President Clinton last summer at a White House kaffeeklatsch that was sponsored by the Democratic National Committee, administration officials said Thursday.  The contributor who arranged the meeting, Pauline Kanchanalak, is a central figure in investigations into allegations of improper fund raising by the Democrats and was a frequent visitor to the White House, seeing Clinton at least 10 times, according to security records disclosed Thursday.  The disclosure raises new questions about whether large donors were, in effect, buying access to President Clinton for other people who could neither vote nor contribute money to the campaign.  The White House disclosed last week that Charles Yah Lin Trie, a major donor and fund-raiser under investigation, had arranged for a Chinese weapons dealer to meet with Clinton at a Democratic Party event at the White House.  Five weeks ago, the Democratic committee announced that it would return $253,500 in donations that were improper because they were listed in Mrs. Kanchanalak’s name but, the committee determined, might have actually been supplied by a relative.  Mrs. Kanchanalak, a citizen of Thailand, arranged the White House meeting for executives from the Charoen Pokaphand Group, a Thailand-based conglomerate that is one of Asia’s largest and most successful business empires. In some two dozen countries, the group controls more than 250 companies that produce everything from chickens and shrimp to petrochemicals, motorcycles and telecommunications equipment.  Barely known in the United States, the group is believed to be the largest foreign investor in China. A recent article in The Financial Times estimated that Dhanin Chearavanont, the chairman of the C.P. Group, as the conglomerate is known, is the 12th richest man in Asia.  Dhanin, joined by two other company executives, appeared with Mrs. Kanchanalak at the meeting June 18. The White House would not say what was discussed at the meeting, which was attended by five other guests, as well as by Clinton, and three Democratic committee officials — national chairman Donald Fowler, finance chairman Marvin Rosen and finance vice-chairman John Huang.  White House officials Thursday defended this and other visits by Mrs. Kanchanalak.  "It is not uncommon in this or in previous administrations for supporters and interested parties to attend briefings and other events at the White House to meet with the president and others," said Lanny J. Davis, a special White House counsel.  Davis said that although it was not surprising that some visitors might have contributed to the Democratic Party or to the president’s re-election campaign, "no governmental action resulted from any campaign contribution."  Still, officials at the Democratic committee and the White House have acknowledged that they were lax in monitoring both the source of contributions and the people they were recommending as guests to the White House.  Internal documents disclosed recently by the Democratic committee suggest that the meeting with the C.P. group executives was part of a fund-raising effort organized by the Democratic committee. But White House officials emphasized Thursday that no money actually changed hands at the White House, something that would be unlawful.  For the last few years, Mrs. Kanchanalak has worked in Washington for another large Thai conglomerate, the Ban Chang Group. White House security records show that since 1993, she has visited the White House 26 to 33 times, attending a variety of dinners and kaffeeklatsches sponsored by the Democratic committee as well as meetings with officials from the National Security Council.  The records also show that she had met with Vice President Al Gore at least twice. At least once, she was part of a delegation that went to the White House with the deputy prime minister of Thailand. During her visits, Mrs. Kanchanalak alternated between using her married name and her maiden name, Pornpimol Parichattkul.  Most of the money from Mrs. Kanchanalak was solicited by Huang, who, before joining the Democratic committee, had been a trade official at the Commerce Department. So far, some $1.2 million of the $3.4 million raised by Huang has been returned after the committee found that the donations were inappropriate.  The relationship between Mrs. Kanchanalak and Huang has become a focus of federal prosecutors and congressional investigators who have begun to examine the fund-raising efforts by the Democrats.  While at the Commerce Department, Huang recommended that Clinton take part in a ceremony for the establishment of a U.S.-Thai business council. Both Clinton and the prime minister of Thailand dropped in on the inauguration of the council at an Oct. 6, 1994, meeting at the White House.  Mrs. Kanchanalak, who met with officials at the White House to discuss the business council, was in contact with Huang at the time, according to records at the Commerce Department. Among her donations was one for $32,500 to the Democratic committee on Oct. 20, 1994.  Mrs. Kanchanalak did not respond to telephone messages Thursday seeking comment.

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Gov’t Worker Found Dead Saturday, November 30, 1996 3:46 am EST WASHINGTON (AP) — A Commerce Department employee was found dead in her fourth-floor office at the agency’s downtown headquarters on Friday. The body was discovered around 7:45 a.m. by a co-worker arriving for work, police said. The woman was identified as Barbara Alice Wise, 48, of Gambrills, Md. She had worked as a secretary for 14 years at the department’s International Trade Administration. Anne Luzzatto, chief spokeswoman for Commerce Secretary Mickey Kantor, said the unit where she worked provided analysis for various industries in studies designed to boost export sales. The woman had been last seen alive at Commerce late Wednesday afternoon, before the agency closed for the Thanksgiving holiday. Sgt. Michael Farish, a homicide investigator with District of Columbia police, said officers have found no signs of foul play and believe that she died of natural causes. But the case continued to be investigated as a homicide, he said. A preliminary autopsy was unable to determine the cause of death Friday. A local television station, WRC, quoted unidentified police sources as saying that the office where the body was found was locked and the body was partially nude. +–+–+ Charisma: by which vermin are drawn to putrescence.

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Question:

) writes:

(professing his faith in "HIV", which, like God, there is only indirect evidence for) We’re far beyond that point. We now even have the three-dimensional structures defined:

Defining the 3D structure of a protein doesn’t tell you anything about where the protein came from or if it is indeed part of a viral particle (you know, that one that they cannot purify completely, the one that has about 30 or so human proteins associated with it after purification).  The source of their "p24" (aka, capsid) is not given, but rest assured it was not from any culture of "HIV" (the gold standard source of material).  They undoubtedly have used a cloned sequence that someone told them was from "HIV", mainly for practical reasons, since you could never get enough pure "HIV" from any culture to do structure studies of individual proteins. I wonder what 3D structures they would find if they used proteins produced from all the variant sequences of p24?  Now that would be an interesting study.  I would bet some of them don’t fold into any kind of recognizable structure, which would make you wonder how all these "p24’s" do whatever they’re supposed to do, in spite of the claims made about them. Also, a note on the uniqueness of p24–many "HIV-" pregnant women have a p24 antigen in their placenta around the time of birth. So much for p24 being synonymous with "infection" or belonging solely to the "HIV". Todd Miller, PhD

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Also, a note on the uniqueness of p24–many "HIV-" pregnant women have a p24 antigen in their placenta around the time of birth. So much for p24 being synonymous with "infection" or belonging solely to the "HIV". Todd Miller, PhD

You are careful to call it *a* p24 antigen, not *the* p24 antigen. In as much as the designation p24 refers only to the size of a protein, perhaps you could provide some information on the degree or relatedness and cross reactivity of placental p24 from HIV uninfected (seronegative) mothers and assays for the p24 antigen of HIV.

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 "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? [...] Some retroviruses grow well in culture, some don’t.  However, molecular biology allows much to be done with small amounts of virus.  As I have said above, complete sequences of the RNA has been accomplished and sequences of individual genes have been used to demonstrate transmission. I don’t know what "proper isolation" refers to, but there is ample evidence that HIV exists, is associated with AIDS, and elimination of HIV improves the health of AIDS patients (which is why viral lode is a good prognostic indicator).  

All of which is a long-winded way of admitting you don’t understand why proper isolation matters. And if you won’t read, and aren’t prepared to educate yourself, what more can be done to help you?  John —   "In going back to the origins of HIV virology and telling the HIV  story, a view will be presented which will make clear that HIV itself,  the very object of this Manhattan Project of modern medicine, does not  exist."                                 Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist.

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Duesberg doesn’t really have to say much, read jay Levy instead if these drugs do not assist CMI and boost CTLs then they are not much good since 1) most HIV RNA in plasma is non-infectious 2) HIV DNA cell to cell transmission is far more efficient (though only 1% cells replicating at any time) perhaps PIs have an antibiotic effect or make people feel "better" since they may reduce the CMI response, thereby reducing inflammation and unwell feelings that come from the immune system fighting multiple antigens perhaps the non-specific action on ALL aspartic protease is reducing other conditions which rely on this enzyme such as candida albicans and other fungal infections (antibiotic effect) however, if PIs affect the chemical messengers in such a way as to down regulate the CMI arm, or cause a reduction in CTLs much like AZT can potentially do (as can all nucleoside analogues), then this chemotherapy could be lowering immunity along with HIVs action on the IL2 and ultimately setting the user up for a big crash not to mention the potential liver toxicity in a population where 50% of HIV+ve people have alcohol or substance abuse problems stephen himself : [ ....mid-80's mantra: ] : : Attacking HIV makes people live longer. : Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is : still the best. :  John : — : "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That :  protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would :  be my reaction." :          Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War — STEPHEN |As it cracks apart in your faith|

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"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences.   All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences.  Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced.  Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins). Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins.   All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"?

Idiot. The following reference has been posted here many times: Unique Identifier   40100890 Data Source   INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON AIDS Authors   Krust B.  Laurent AG.  Hellio R.  Montagnier L.  Hovanessian AG. Institution   Institut Pasteur, 25, rue du Dr. Roux 75724 Paris Cedex 15, France Title   Different forms of p25 are associated with infectious and non infectious   viral particles produced by HIV-1 infected cells. Source   Int Conf AIDS.  6(2):316 (abstract no. 1008), 1990 Jun 20-23. Abstract   OBJECTIVES: Four subspecies of p25, a, b, c and d, with related PI values,   are produced by HIV-1 infected cells. The two forms a and b are in part   incorporated into the HIV-1 virion, whereas species c and d along with a   proportion of species a and b are expressed at the cell surface and also   excreted. The characterization of these different forms is described here.   METHODS: Cell culture supernatants of HIV-1 infected cells were   fractionated by isopycnic centrifugation along a sucrose gradient, and the   different fractions containing viral proteins were analyzed. RESULTS:   Three major peaks containing the different subspecies of p25 were   recovered: peak A at a sucrose density of 1.150 containing p25a, p25b,   gp120, p68 and p55, peak B at a sucrose density of 1.080 containing the   same proteins as peak A; peak C at a sucrose density of 1.050 containing   p25 a, b, c, d and p40. Only peak A was infectious. Negative staining   electron microscopy of the different fractions indicated the presence of   particles of different sizes: 120 nm in peak A containing infectious   virus; 20-50 nm in peaks B and C. CONCLUSION: Infectious and non   infectious particles are produced by HIV-1 infected cells. The four   species of p25 can be used as convenient markers to identify these   particles. We’re far beyond that point. We now even have the three-dimensional structures defined: Structure of the Amino-Terminal Core Domain of the HIV-1 Capsid Protein Science, July 12th, 1996 Rossitza K. Gitti, * Brian M. Lee, * Jill Walker, Michael F. Summers, Sanghee Yoo, Wesley I. Sundquist   The three-dimensional structure of the amino-terminal core domain (residues 1 through 151) of the human immunodeficiency virus-type 1 (HIV-1) capsid protein has been solved by multidimensional heteronuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The structure is unlike those of previously characterized viral coat proteins and is composed of seven  helices, two  hairpins, and an exposed partially ordered loop. The domain is shaped like an arrowhead, with the hairpins and loop exposed at the trailing edge and the carboxyl-terminal helix projecting from the tip. The proline residue Pro1 forms a salt bridge with a conserved, buried aspartate residue (Asp51), which suggests that the amino terminus of the protein rearranges upon proteolytic maturation. The binding site for cyclophilin A, a cellular rotamase that is packaged into the HIV-1 virion, is located on the exposed loop and encompasses the essential proline residue Pro90. In the free monomeric domain, Pro90 adopts kinetically trapped cis and trans conformations, raising the possibility that cyclophilin A catalyzes interconversion of the cis- and trans-Pro90 loop structures.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences.  Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced.  Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins).  Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins.   All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? It is surprising how many people don’t. (Antibodies made to an unverified "virus"? How would you know? You need to read Dr Taylor’s radio broadcast transcript. This is very basic stuff.) I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have done well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws. I tell you frankly that unless you are prepared to read and learn you will make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have so far. You cannot acquire knowledge by osmosis. Dissident web-sites are free, so your complaints on that score are as hollow as your beliefs.

I tell you frankly, john, that so long as you put your confidence in people who are so far behind the scientific times as to be living in the past you will continue to delude your self.  Which is of course the goal of the exercise. HIV has been isolated, identified, purified, and characterized as well as it is possible to do for any microorganism.  Its identity is accepted by international organizations on systematics (the branch of biology related to naming and classifying) whose job it is to review claims of "isolation" and which are not creatures of "HIV science".  The standards of such groups have been met and they are the contemporary standards of the field, not some criteria proffered 20 years ago.  The logic that because one man or group claims that if some additional proof — specifically a photo taken under certain conditions and appearing in a published journal — is not put forward then all other proofs will collapse is badly flawed. Indeed, even the criteria you assert as the sine qua non did not require publication in a peer reviewed journal.  In as much as such photos have been taken, reported on and exhibited at an international meeting there the criteria you keep asserting are the only ones, those from the Institute Pasteur, have been met! It is time to give up the delusion that so long as the "Continuum prize" is unclaimed, HIV can be maintained not to exist.

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[..peep..peep..peep...] In any event, whether you are HIV-infected or not, you are a sad, tiresome person. I don’t like you but I feel at least I should offer you this perspective (which, I predict, you will reject). Please take it in the spirit of the last shred of good will I feel toward you as another human being rather than my typical animosity (which you may rest assured has not evaporated).

Dear Little Miss Chicken, If you ever stopped posting reams of abusive claptrap I would have to start worrying. At least while you are busy occupying your time producing elaborate (yet so feeble) insults you cannot also be misdirecting vulnerable people towards poisonous medical intervention. Good for them. (But probably bad for you.)  John —   Prof Duesberg, when explaining how AZT kills elements of the immune system most needed by immunocompromised people, was asked about its side effects: "Side effects? Side effects! It has no *side* effects. It has only one effect: it’s killing cells every single day you take it. That’s its effect."                                   Interview on KEST AM radio, July 27 1995

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences.  Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced.  Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins).  Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins.   All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? It is surprising how many people don’t. (Antibodies made to an unverified "virus"? How would you know? You need to read Dr Taylor’s radio broadcast transcript. This is very basic stuff.)

Some retroviruses grow well in culture, some don’t.  However, molecular biology allows much to be done with small amounts of virus.  As I have said above, complete sequences of the RNA has been accomplished and sequences of individual genes have been used to demonstrate transmission. I don’t know what "proper isolation" refers to, but there is ample evidence that HIV exists, is associated with AIDS, and elimination of HIV improves the health of AIDS patients (which is why viral lode is a good prognostic indicator).   Henry N Fox Chapel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have done well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws. I tell you frankly that unless you are prepared to read and learn you will make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have so far. You cannot acquire knowledge by osmosis. Dissident web-sites are free, so your complaints on that score are as hollow as your beliefs. John —   "In going back to the origins of HIV virology and telling the HIV story, a view will be presented which will make clear that HIV itself, the very object of this Manhattan Project of modern medicine, does not exist."                                 Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist.

Response:

 "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences.  Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced.  Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins).  Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins.  

All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? It is surprising how many people don’t. (Antibodies made to an unverified "virus"? How would you know? You need to read Dr Taylor’s radio broadcast transcript. This is very basic stuff.) I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have done well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws.

I tell you frankly that unless you are prepared to read and learn you will make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have so far. You cannot acquire knowledge by osmosis. Dissident web-sites are free, so your complaints on that score are as hollow as your beliefs.  John —   "In going back to the origins of HIV virology and telling the HIV  story, a view will be presented which will make clear that HIV itself,  the very object of this Manhattan Project of modern medicine, does not  exist."                                 Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist.

Response:

Following is the text version of a letter that was sent to the Director of NIH concerning his agency’s role in offering dissident AIDS scientists bribes to Cover-up the AIDS debate. For those who would like to learn more about the AIDS Cover-up, please visit the CENSORSHIP BYPASS web site at: http://www.kaiwan.com/~bypass July 11 , 1996 VIA FEDERAL EXPRESS Joel A. Schwartz 3463 State Street, #135 Santa Barbara, CA 93105 Dr. Harold E. Varmus Director, National Institutes of Health 1 Center Drive Bldg. #1, Room 126 Bethesda, MD 20892 (ph) 301-496-2433 Dear Dr. Varmus, As you know, for several years there has been a scientific debate over the cause of AIDS.  A growing body of researchers are disputing the claim that HIV causes the AIDS epidemic, suggesting that something else may be the real cause.  This debate has, of course, many far-reaching consequences. It throws into question the entire course of federal spending and policy in the War on AIDS, including the current treatments for AIDS. However, a new and larger issue is beginning to emerge from this controversy. A growing body of evidence indicates that governmental agencies, acting directly or through the Public Health lobby, have been attempting to hide the AIDS controversy from public knowledge.  According to this evidence, various Public Health officials have used influence, bribery, and intimidation to silence dissent among scientists, in the communications media, and in other public forums. As the scandal of a government cover-up becomes public knowledge, taxpayers and voters are demanding a full accounting of the secret measures being used to silence dissent.  I am writing on behalf of this growing movement. It has come to our attention that the National Institutes of Health (NIH) has been one of the participants in this cover-up.  Specifically, testimony of Dr. Peter H. Duesberg, a virologist at the University of California at Berkeley and one of the dissenting scientists in this AIDS debate, has revealed that officials of the NIH have offered him compensation in return for recanting his position on AIDS.  But Dr. Duesberg has so far refused to identify these officials or the exact terms of the offers.  As director of the NIH, you bear full responsibility for extra-legal actions taken by your agency, and therefore, you owe the American public a full disclosure of the facts. For the record, I now call on you to provide the answers to the following questions: 1)  On November 9, 1995, Dr. Duesberg gave sworn testimony [Deposition, case 95 Civ. 0157 (JES), Regnery and Duesberg v. Ellison, Federal District Court, Southern District of New York] that an official of the NIH visited him in late 1994 and made him an offer in exchange for his agreement to recant his views on AIDS.  Dr. Duesberg confirmed the existence of this meeting in the book "Inventing the AIDS Virus"  released this year (Regnery Publishing, Washington, D.C.), which lists him as the sole author. What was the exact date and place of that meeting? 2)  What is the name of the NIH official with whom Dr. Duesberg met? 3)  Who else was present at that meeting? 4)  In Dr. Duesberg’s testimony, he stated that this NIH official handed him a letter declaring that HIV causes AIDS.  On this letter were three names:  Dr. Duesberg’s, and two others – one of whom he refers to as an "old friend." What were the names of these other signers? 5)  Who authorized these NIH officials to make Dr. Duesberg this offer? Who else, in the government or elsewhere, was aware of this offer? 6)  Dr. Duesberg has stated that, had he accepted the offer in full, the letter was to be published in "Nature" magazine.  Dr. Duesberg has also mentioned "Nature" editor John Maddox as having been involved. Did John Maddox know about the offer, and the meeting, before they took place?  Did Maddox agree to use his magazine as a forum to publish the letter?  Which NIH officials were in contact with Maddox regarding this offer?  Have you communicated with Maddox regarding this letter?  If so, what did you and Maddox say? 7)  Who actually wrote the letter?  Please provide a copy of the complete letter.  What, precisely, was Dr. Duesberg offered in return for signing the letter? 9)  Precisely how long did Dr. Duesberg take to think over the offer? 10)  What was Dr. Duesberg’s final answer to the offer? Did he accept any part of the offer? Did he make any counter-offers? 11)  According to testimony we have received, Dr. Duesberg has privately admitted the existence of previous offers made to him by NIH officials in return for changing his position on AIDS.  Written documents also suggest the existence of such offers. a)  What were the exact dates and places of those meetings? b)  What were the names of the persons who met with Dr. Duesberg at those times, or who helped arrange those meetings? c)  Was Dr. Duesberg given letters to sign at any of those meetings?  If so, please provide copies of each of those documents. d)  Who authorized each of those offers?  Who else was aware of those offers? e)  What were the terms of each of those offers (what was Dr. Duesberg asked to do, and what was he promised in return)? f)  How long did Dr. Duesberg take to make a decision on each of those offers? g)  What was Dr. Duesberg’s answer to each of those offers? 12)  Has the NIH offered Dr. Duesberg any such deals since 1994? 13) Has the NIH ever collaborated with Alfred Regnery (of Regnery Publishing), or any of his authors, agents or associates, on the AIDS issue?  If so, what were the circumstances surrounding any such collaboration and what were the names (from both sides) of those involved? Certainly you must agree that the federal government cannot be allowed to censor this AIDS debate, or any other controversy, from public view.  As a federal official overseeing much of the spending on AIDS research, you have a special responsibility to disclose all government attempts to suppress opposition.  The public has a right to know. I therefore assume you will provide the above answers in a timely manner. Thank you. Sincerely, Joel A. Schwartz

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. Very well received by whom? The growing "Aids" dissident movement. Check out the list of scientists and others who support the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV Hypothesis of Aids. A partial list is on the newest Rethinking AIDS WebSite: http://www.xs4all.nl/~raido and is also currently posted to this group. Did you miss it?

The list contains the names of people who are dead and the names of people who no longer support the GSR. THE GROUP FOR THE SCIENTIFIC REAPPRAISAL OF THE HIV-AIDS HYPOTHESIS PEOPLE ON THE LIST WHO DIED FROM AIDS:         Michael Callen (Author ‘Surviving AIDS’, Hollywood, CA)         Caspar Schmidt, M.D. (Psychiatrist, New York)                   Jody Wells (Continuum, London, UK) PEOPLE ON THE LIST WHO NO LONGER SUPPORT THE GSR:         James M. Scutero (New York, NY) There are probably more names that should not be on the list for the above cited reasons.         I’ve asked to have my name taken off of the list several times to no avail. In May of 1995, I came back to the realization that HIV causes AIDS. A trip to the hospital with OI’s will do that. I find that facing reality is much better than living in denial.         In 1989, when I was first diagnosed with HIV, I had a fighting spirit. When I allowed myself to be sucked into the "rethink" cottage industry of denial I felt miserable. I was ripped-off, threatened with violence and belittled by the members of the GSR. Free-thought is not encouraged by the nattering nabobs of nuttiness at the GSR. Their forums are censored and they espose hero worship. I feel great now that I have left them and will continue to live and think for myself. BTW, johnnydog, I didn’t see him on the list, but is Cass Mann still alive? Just curious.              james m. scutero, original proponent of misc.health.aids                      the newsgroup of acquired immune deficiency syndromes                                     o_) *                              ”    _/                                       /(        misc.health.aids homepage`- http://www.panix.com/~jscutero surfin’ with aids.                                    * (hot ascii surfer)

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Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is still the best. "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction."         Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

The fact that you persist in making a fool of Duesberg by quoting this piece of immunologically-bankrupt tripe is a testament to your profound ignorance. People often develop antibodies to viruses yet still become ill. Either due to the pathological consequences of an unchecked infection and/or the sequelae of an aberrent, overactive immune response to the pathogen. John, if you are HIV+, you need some serious help. It is certainly your choice whether to do any therapies or not. But to try to justify the choice not to in the lame, half-assed way of making "pronouncements" the way you do smacks more of fear and denial than an understanding of the literature. As Dr. Holzman noted, you are more than entitled to your opinion. But it is weak and so full of holes if it were Swiss cheese you’d be hard-pressed to find the cheese. I think you need to slow down, take a break and look at your life. This is not meant to say "find the truth about drugs and start taking them." But rather realize that if there is HIV inside you, it may be doing you a great deal of harm–and there are many gentler, safer alternatives you might want to consider doing (even if they aren’t nearly as effective as the combinations of drugs). In any event, whether you are HIV-infected or not, you are a sad, tiresome person. I don’t like you but I feel at least I should offer you this perspective (which, I predict, you will reject). Please take it in the spirit of the last shred of good will I feel toward you as another human being rather than my typical animosity (which you may rest assured has not evaporated).                 George M. Carter

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[ ....mid-80's mantra: ] Attacking HIV makes people live longer. Not so far.

Then you haven’t learned a damn thing here, have you ! Why are you so bitter towards the medical profession ? Do you just hate life? Were you rejected for medical school? There’s something you’re not telling us, JohnDogma !

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"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago).   Again I suggest you need to familiarise yourself with the literature. All you are doing is demonstrating an obvious ignorance of the issues.

stupid…stupid…stupid…  You’ve basically alienated yourself from everyone on this newsgroup ! Drugs which attach HIV make people live longer. Ignorance is not an adequate description of your actions any more.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: [...] He and I have isolated many retroviruses in the lab (the quantity was so high that you could actually see the banded virus in surcrose gels without the aid of a microscope).  It was easy to visualize the proteins and enzymatic activities.  The RNA has been isolated, copied into cDNA, and sequenced on many strains.  Electron micrographs of the virus has been puclished countless time   Where, when, by whom? Where is an EM of "HIV" prepared to the standard required by virologists such as Stefan Lanka, and the scientific team in Perth? And Dr Todd Miller. The kind that would demonstrate isolation. There’s a cash reward for that information. I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago).   James Scutero had a quote from "the virus" in his .sig for a while last year. Did it talk to you too? You would have been better off listening to Professor Duesberg. His AIDS theory is intellectually dishonest.  Its a joke. On the subject of dishonesty, just provide the reference to the full isolation of "HIV", the virus you claim to have seen. Anyone who doubts the existance of the virus is incredibly ignorant or stupid.  Retroviruses have been studied at various levels since the beginning if this century!  Wake up. Dr Turner is neither ignorant nor stupid, to judge by his work. And it is a particular virus we are interested in, not viruses in general. Again I suggest you need to familiarise yourself with the literature. All you are doing is demonstrating an obvious ignorance of the issues. John

John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences.  Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced.  Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins).  Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins.  The scientific literature is very clear.  I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have down well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws. Henry N Fox Chapel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —   "They have not proven that they have actually detected a unique exogenous retrovirus. The critical data to support that idea have not been presented."                  Prof. J Papadimitriou, Univ of W.Australia

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 "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: [...] He and I have isolated many retroviruses in the lab (the quantity was so high that you could actually see the banded virus in surcrose gels without the aid of a microscope).  It was easy to visualize the proteins and enzymatic activities.  The RNA has been isolated, copied into cDNA, and sequenced on many strains.  Electron micrographs of the virus has been puclished countless time  

Where, when, by whom? Where is an EM of "HIV" prepared to the standard required by virologists such as Stefan Lanka, and the scientific team in Perth? And Dr Todd Miller. The kind that would demonstrate isolation. There’s a cash reward for that information. I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago).  

James Scutero had a quote from "the virus" in his .sig for a while last year. Did it talk to you too? You would have been better off listening to Professor Duesberg. His AIDS theory is intellectually dishonest.  Its a joke.

On the subject of dishonesty, just provide the reference to the full isolation of "HIV", the virus you claim to have seen. Anyone who doubts the existance of the virus is incredibly ignorant or stupid.  Retroviruses have been studied at various levels since the beginning if this century!  Wake up.

Dr Turner is neither ignorant nor stupid, to judge by his work. And it is a particular virus we are interested in, not viruses in general. Again I suggest you need to familiarise yourself with the literature. All you are doing is demonstrating an obvious ignorance of the issues.  John —   "They have not proven that they have actually detected a unique  exogenous retrovirus. The critical data to support that idea have  not been presented."                   Prof. J Papadimitriou, Univ of W.Australia

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[ ....mid-80's mantra: ] Attacking HIV makes people live longer. Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is still the best. John —

John, I think you missed the protease data. Henry N Fox Chapel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction."         Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

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[ ....mid-80's mantra: ] Attacking HIV makes people live longer.

Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is still the best.  John — "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That  protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would  be my reaction."          Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. Very well received by whom? The growing "Aids" dissident movement. Check out the list of scientists and others who support the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV Hypothesis of Aids. A partial list is on the newest Rethinking AIDS WebSite: http://www.xs4all.nl/~raido and is also currently posted to this group. Did you miss it?

I saw the list a was not impressed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The protease data should put an end to the circular arguments.   Without circular arguments, orthodox "Aids" is finished, so this is certainly an over-optimistic suggestion. Also as there is no way to measure levels of "HIV", or even to establish its existence, claims based around this assertion are patently misleading. What has Peter Duesberg done other than add some academic credentials to intellectually dishonest arguements? He has saved a lot of lives. He has exposed the dishonesty of the conventional model of "Aids", and drawn attention to the appalling level of fraud and deception involved in this murderous pogrom. His was the first and most important scientific work to show the "virus" theory to be mistaken. The accuracy of his conclusions are hardly in doubt, given the subsequent history of the phenomenon.

No one has shown the virus theory mistaken. You are clearly very ignorant of the history and science of the "Aids" phenomenon. You should spend some time reading Duesberg and also the later work done in Perth, Australia by the scientific team there. Start with the websites, if, like our doctors here, you are averse to reading books. Then you might at least sound less like a drug company shareholder and more like a PhD. John —

I am well aware of the history of HIV.  As a graduate student, post doc, and staff scientist I went to the same RNA Tumor Virus in Cold Spring Harbor every May (I actually spent my honeymoon there in 1977 – I was in NY and my wife was in NJ) that Peter Duesberg attended.  He was better off sticking to the structural proteins of retroviruses or integration into DNA.  He and I have isolated many retroviruses in the lab (the quantity was so high that you could actually see the banded virus in surcrose gels without the aid of a microscope).  It was easy to visualize the proteins and enzymatic activities.  The RNA has been isolated, copied into cDNA, and sequenced on many strains.  Electron micrographs of the virus has been puclished countless time  I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago).  His AIDS theory is intellectually dishonest.  Its a joke. "HIV is a metaphor for a lot of quasi-related phenomena. No one has ever proved its existence as a virus. We don’t believe it exists."         Dr. V. F. Turner, Royal Perth Hospital, Western Australia

Anyone who doubts the existance of the virus is incredibly ignorant or stupid.  Retroviruses have been studied at various levels since the beginning if this century!  Wake up. Henry N Fox Chapel

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 "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. Very well received by whom?

The growing "Aids" dissident movement. Check out the list of scientists and others who support the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV Hypothesis of Aids. A partial list is on the newest Rethinking AIDS WebSite: http://www.xs4all.nl/~raido and is also currently posted to this group. Did you miss it? The protease data should put an end to the circular arguments.  

Without circular arguments, orthodox "Aids" is finished, so this is certainly an over-optimistic suggestion. Also as there is no way to measure levels of "HIV", or even to establish its existence, claims based around this assertion are patently misleading. What has Peter Duesberg done other than add some academic credentials to intellectually dishonest arguements?

He has saved a lot of lives. He has exposed the dishonesty of the conventional model of "Aids", and drawn attention to the appalling level of fraud and deception involved in this murderous pogrom. His was the first and most important scientific work to show the "virus" theory to be mistaken. The accuracy of his conclusions are hardly in doubt, given the subsequent history of the phenomenon. You are clearly very ignorant of the history and science of the "Aids" phenomenon. You should spend some time reading Duesberg and also the later work done in Perth, Australia by the scientific team there. Start with the websites, if, like our doctors here, you are averse to reading books. Then you might at least sound less like a drug company shareholder and more like a PhD.  John —   "HIV is a metaphor for a lot of quasi-related phenomena. No one has ever proved its existence as a virus. We don’t believe it exists."          Dr. V. F. Turner, Royal Perth Hospital, Western Australia

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There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver.  Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ?  In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? Yes. Notable silence.

Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading.  John — "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That  protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would  be my reaction."         Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver.  Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ?  In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? Yes. Notable silence. Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading.

John, dearest dog…  Do-wrong Duesberg’s book is a regurgitation of his mid-80’s mantra with squeals of conspiracy thrown-in. Who are you trying to kid? You think the identification of major co-factors and the proven benefits of attacking HIV add to this moron’s credibility? We want to hear this guy either recant his erroneous position or defend it in a timely fashion – a professional response is required from Duesberg. People are fed-up seeing him ignore the info which defeats his case. Attacking HIV makes people live longer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver.  Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ?  In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? Yes. Notable silence. Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. John — "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction."        Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

Very well received by whom? The protease data should put an end to the circular arguments.  If HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, it seems to be a great target to attack to improve the health of AIDS victims.  What has Peter Duesberg done other than add some academic credentials to intellectually dishonest arguements? Henry N Fox Chapel

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There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver.  Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ?  In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? I would surely like to know the latest from both sides.

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There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver.  Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ?  In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? I would surely like to know the latest from both sides.

Yes. Notable silence. Are there two sides any more? Duesberg must be feeling pretty stupid right now.

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