Question:

I’m about to start my study of accounting at the local community colleges. At some schools I see introductory managerial accounting does not require a prereq of introductory financial accounting, and at other schools I see that. Would it be okay if I simulaneously enrolled in intro to financial accounting and intro to managerial? thanks

I suspect you would become very confused very quickly.  Both of these are two entirely different concepts in accounting. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

I’m about to start my study of accounting at the local community colleges. At some schools I see introductory managerial accounting does not require a prereq of introductory financial accounting, and at other schools I see that. Would it be okay if I simulaneously enrolled in intro to financial accounting and intro to managerial? thanks

Response:

I’m about to start my study of accounting at the local community colleges. At some schools I see introductory managerial accounting does not require a prereq of introductory financial accounting, and at other schools I see that. Would it be okay if I simulaneously enrolled in intro to financial accounting and intro to managerial?

Yes, financial accounting is primarily focused on providing information to external users. This information is not very useful to managers because it is generally not timely (it is what happened last month) and aggregated. Managers need information that is timely (what happened this morning) and specific to the firm’s processes. In financial accounting you learn about debits and credits and preparing financial statements according to GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles). In managerial accounting you learn about break-even points, assigning costs to products, etc. So they are really different subjects that do not rely too heavily on the other.

Response:

Question:

Is it really necessary to post his speech? Lush Is it really necessary for you to reply?

  Is it really necessary for you to reply to his reply? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -=Chive The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. – Socrates (B.C.469-399)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it really necessary to post his speech? Lush Is it really necessary for you to reply?   Is it really necessary for you to reply to his reply? -=Chive The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. – Socrates (B.C.469-399)

But Socrates was put to death for being a smart ass.

Response:

Don’t speak back to your betters. Lush

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it really necessary to post his speech? Lush Is it really necessary for you to reply? -=Chive The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. – Socrates (B.C.469-399)

Response:

Is it really necessary to post his speech? Lush

Response:

It may be fun to laugh at, I’m sure there are a lot of spelling corrections that need to be made. —    One of us is thinking about sex…..oh okay it’s me.                              Makara

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it really necessary to post his speech? Lush

Response:

LOL Good point, honey! Lush

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may be fun to laugh at, I’m sure there are a lot of spelling corrections that need to be made. —    One of us is thinking about sex…..oh okay it’s me.                              Makara Is it really necessary to post his speech? Lush

Response:

Is it really necessary to post his speech? Lush

Is it really necessary for you to reply? -=Chive The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. – Socrates (B.C.469-399)

Response:

chive you should be moist – he wants to kill arabs! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – September 13, 2002 Text of Bush’s speech to the U.N.    A text of President Bush’s speech to the United Nations on Thursday, as released by the White House:    Mr. Secretary-General, Mr. President, distinguished ladies and gentlemen: We meet one year and one day after a terrorist attack brought grief to my country, and to the citizens of many countries. Yesterday, we remembered the innocent lives taken that terrible morning. Today, we turn to the urgent duty of protecting other lives, without illusion and without fear.    We have accomplished much in the last year

Question:

Hi all, My company wants their people to enter their timecard data into Excel spreadsheets, which will then be imported into Quickbooks 6. I’ve looked at some of the specifications, and it looks very confusing. Anyone know where I can get an existing Excel template/form which is setup for Quickbooks? Thanks in advance, Steve

Response:

Importing / exporting in any accounting program has an upfront learning price. It is doubtful if any "template" would fit your needs. You will need to plan what data you want to import and where you want it to go. Make a copy of your QB6 current records for you to practice and work with so as to not harm the original data. Now the best way to find your "import" headings is to "export" what you want to import from your practice set. Use the export data headings in Excel as your template.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, My company wants their people to enter their timecard data into Excel spreadsheets, which will then be imported into Quickbooks 6. I’ve looked at some of the specifications, and it looks very confusing. Anyone know where I can get an existing Excel template/form which is setup for Quickbooks? Thanks in advance, Steve

Response:

Question:

The log was compiled by the General Accounting Office, listing specific details and amounts of vandalism found when the new tenants took over. Canoli

Actually, the GAO never got any list during their investigation. It has only been the past week that the White House has claimed that they had compiled a list of the devastation. Interesting thing about that, last week during a White House briefing,  Spokesman Ari Fleischer claimed that "the new administration had to buy 100 new computer keyboards, at a cost of $2,000", to replace damaged keyboards. Problem with that statement is that it was a lie, OfficeMax had donated 500 Computer Keyboard ‘W’ Keys and 100 Full Keyboards to the Whitehouse in a good faith effort to keep the "wheels of government moving"… Now, why would the Spokesman feel the need to lie about this even further than they did last January? I think they’re digging themselves into a hole they won’t be able to lie their way out of. (And I’m also sure it’ll be hard for you to respond to me without bringing up Clinton or name calling) Stay tuned, this story is still getting interesting. Deano Sources: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/politics/04VAND.html http://www.officemax.com/press/keyboard.html

Response:

—– substantive stuff snipped —- . . . Spokesman Ari Fleischer claimed that "the new administration had to buy 100 new computer keyboards, at a cost of $2,000", to replace damaged keyboards. Problem with that statement is that it was a lie, OfficeMax had donated 500 Computer Keyboard ‘W’ Keys and 100 Full Keyboards to the Whitehouse in a good faith effort to keep the "wheels of government moving"…

Am venturing a guess that donations of such sophisticated stuff as keyboards cannot be allowed into the White House for security reasons. After all, the keyboards might have bugs in them . . . — Carl A. http://pages.prodigy.net/chainnj/Journal.htm

Response:

Am venturing a guess that donations of such sophisticated stuff as keyboards cannot be allowed into the White House for security reasons. After all, the keyboards might have bugs in them . . .

Just as anything donated may have bugs planted in them including furniture and pictures..  They can find bugs with the equipment they have and I’m sure those keyboards, if they were needed, were thoroughly checked out before connecting them whether they bought them or they were donated to them. Ben

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know what’s really funny is that if there was anything, anything at all that would have smeared the Clintons further, Bush aides would have invited the Press into the White House in a New York minute to photograph the "devastation"… That should have been the first clue that there wasn’t any there, there… Maybe a few schoolyard pranks, but where’s the beef? Deano It isn’t nice to judge the whole world by the standards you have come to accept from you own chosen heros. Lon Must be easy to only base your opinions on rumors, innuendo and hearsay. Deano

Jesus!  You demand first hand spectators to the damage in order to lend credibility to these stories yet, dems state that since Jenna Bush got her mammary in the mangle over an ID card, there should be an Independent Counsel to investigate the OBVIOUS indiscretions that MUST have  surrounded GWB in his youth.   Hypocritical bastards are the radical-left dems. I hope that I shall sometime see, a DEM that doesn’t lie to me! Visit www.k7no.com   Under construction but getting there.

Response:

Hey craig,are you a TROLL..if not then why did you post this political crap in a RV newsgroup? DUH? This type of posting is pure TROLL bait (watch the so-called *regulars* get totally sucked in) I’d suggest you post this type of message to an appropriate newsgroup if you have a clue where they are. IMO,your trying to start a flame war and your not very bright about it. The Clinton

Oskar, I’m not sure who you are posting too but if I may, it appears to be a time honored tradition within this RV newsgroup to have the occassional OT (Off Topic) posts going on, much to the amusement of everyone else. Used to be that those topics were typically about bashing our previous administration but since we have a whole new administration and all new embarrashing things to rant about, that’s what we do. Sure, it’s not much, but it’s something. There are some don’t like that we are now "mocking" their favorite party and perhaps you are even one of them,  but if you don’t want to read an OT, don’t. Deano

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since Deano didn’t believe the first reports, sees the GAO report as proof that the first reports were lies……what makes you think he won’t believe THIS report is a lie?? You see, it’s all a "smear". cheers bob Now in addition to all of your other outstanding traits, I’ll have to add psychic. Deano

There is nothing in the world more predictable than an agenda driven unthinking dem troll! Visit www.k7no.com   Under construction but getting there.

Response:

Jesus!  You demand first hand spectators to the damage in order to lend credibility to these stories yet, dems state that since Jenna Bush got her mammary in the mangle over an ID card, there should be an Independent Counsel to investigate the OBVIOUS indiscretions that MUST have  surrounded GWB in his youth.

Make some sense man.. What are you spewing?  Sound like hate, but I could be wrong.. I envision you spitting while yelling.. Damn, I think I need a towel to dry off. Ben

Response:

The Dems are not the only "hypocritical bastards,"  most ALL politicians are.  Either you are blind or brainwashed to not see it.

Not my favorite politicians, they are as honest as the day is long and would never, ever think of taking an illegal contribution from any of the oil companies or lie to us about it later after they get caught!    ((:-) Couldn’t resist. Deano

Response:

Jesus!  You demand first hand spectators to the damage in order to lend credibility to these stories yet, dems state that since Jenna Bush got her mammary in the mangle over an ID card, there should be an Independent Counsel to investigate the OBVIOUS indiscretions that MUST have  surrounded GWB in his youth.   Hypocritical bastards are the radical-left dems. I hope that I shall sometime see, a DEM that doesn’t lie to me!

Holy Crap "unkadean"… don’t lose a nut over this just because you can’t respond without the usual right wing venomous name calling. Are you taking your medication? By the way, I don’t recall anybody calling for an Independent Counsel to investigate the boozing Bush babes, only squeals of "righteous indignation" from the family values party.  You wouldn’t happen to have any sources to back up your inane claim would you? Deano

Response:

The log was compiled by the General Accounting Office, listing specific details and amounts of vandalism found when the new tenants

Please post source, the report I saw was AP and indicated that the GSA released NO detailed info. Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) hometown.aol.com/jynndi/myhomepage’profile.html All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Clinton Vandalism It looks as if the White House vandalism story was true after all. The Bush White House has finally come forward with details of how outgoing Clinton administration staffers vandalized the executive offices. White House press secretary Ari Fleischer tells the Washington Post that the damage included "obscene graffiti in six offices, a 20-inch-wide presidential seal ripped off a wall, 10 sliced telephone lines and 100 inoperable computer keyboards." Also, pornographic or obscene greetings were left on 15 telephone lines in the offices of the vice president and White House counsel and in the scheduling and advance offices. Most of the damage was in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, next door to the White House. "The only incident Fleischer described in the White House itself was a photocopier in the West Wing that had pictures of naked people interspersed with blank photocopy paper so deep in the tray that they were still popping out weeks after the inauguration," the Post says. What about that report in the Kansas City Star that there was "no truth" in the scandal? The Post explains that the General Services Administration, which was the source of the Star’s report, found only that "the condition of the real property was consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy." In other words, the Clinton staff managed not to do any serious damage to the buildings.

Carl, Since Deano didn’t believe the first reports, sees the GAO report as proof that the first reports were lies……what makes you think he won’t believe THIS report is a lie?? You see, it’s all a "smear". cheers bob

Response:

Am venturing a guess that donations of such sophisticated stuff as keyboards cannot be allowed into the White House for security reasons. After all, the keyboards might have bugs in them . . .

OfficeMax claims that they delivered the Keyboards and replacement keys directly to the White House and that they were accepted willingly. OfficeMax is also aa office equipment supplier to the military and that includes the pentagon, so I think it can be safely assumed that they’ve previously cleared security investigations. Deano http://www.officemax.com/press/keyboard.html

Response:

Might I assume from that, that you are admitting that you now accept that there Was vandalism of keyboards?

Nope and in fact in their own press release, OfficeMax admitted that what they were doing was simply trying to gather some publicity by responding to these "alleged charges"… There was no proof of damage shown to any reporter, no photographic documentation, etc. What I am admitting is that by claiming that the "taxpayers paid $2,000 to replace damaged keyboards" the White House spokesman is being less than truthful. Deano Sources: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/politics/04VAND.html http://www.officemax.com/press/keyboard.html

Response:

Must be easy to only base your opinions on rumors, innuendo and hearsay. Deano Jesus!  You demand first hand spectators to the damage in order to lend credibility to these stories yet, dems state that since Jenna Bush got her mammary in the mangle over an ID card, there should be an Independent Counsel to investigate the OBVIOUS indiscretions that MUST have  surrounded GWB in his youth. Hypocritical bastards are the radical-left dems. I hope that I shall sometime see, a DEM that doesn’t lie to me!

The Dems are not the only "hypocritical bastards,"  most ALL politicians are.  Either you are blind or brainwashed to not see it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – White House has finally come forward with details of how outgoing Clinton administration staffers vandalized the executive offices. White House press secretary Ari Fleischer tells the Washington Post It appears that Ari didn’t backup his story with any documentation…STAY TUNED Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) hometown.aol.com/jynndi/myhomepage’profile.html All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal. Better take another look at the news reports:  there was mention of a log of specific occurrences, documenting types and amounts of vandalism. Canli

When asked by the GAO for this alleged documentation, they denied that any existed. Isn’t that a crime unto itself? (Withholding evidence?) Deano

Response:

You know what’s really funny is that if there was anything, anything at all that would have smeared the Clintons further, Bush aides would have invited the Press into the White House in a New York minute to photograph the "devastation"… That should have been the first clue that there wasn’t any there, there… Maybe a few schoolyard pranks, but where’s the beef? Deano It isn’t nice to judge the whole world by the standards you have come to accept from you own chosen heros. Lon

Must be easy to only base your opinions on rumors, innuendo and hearsay. Deano

Response:

Better take another look at the news reports:  there was mention of a log of specific occurrences, documenting types and amounts of vandalism.

From what I’ve read the GSA has NO detail on abnormal amounts of damage etc. they would surely have a record of shop orders if there was significant damage. Who kept those logs  which you reference? Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) hometown.aol.com/jynndi/myhomepage’profile.html All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

You know what’s really funny is that if there was anything, anything at all that would have smeared the Clintons further, Bush aides would have invited the Press into the White House in a New York minute to photograph the "devastation"… That should have been the first clue that there wasn’t any there, there… Maybe a few schoolyard pranks, but where’s the beef? Deano

It isn’t nice to judge the whole world by the standards you have come to accept from you own chosen heros. Lon

Response:

Since Deano didn’t believe the first reports, sees the GAO report as proof that the first reports were lies……what makes you think he won’t believe THIS report is a lie?? You see, it’s all a "smear". Now in addition to all of your other outstanding traits, I’ll have to add psychic.

GRIN.  Two and Two are usually Four. Cheers, bob

Response:

White House has finally come forward with details of how outgoing Clinton administration staffers vandalized the executive offices. White House press secretary Ari Fleischer tells the Washington Post

It appears that Ari didn’t backup his story with any documentation…STAY TUNED Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) hometown.aol.com/jynndi/myhomepage’profile.html All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

Response:

It appears that Ari didn’t backup his story with any documentation…STAY TUNED Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty) hometown.aol.com/jynndi/myhomepage’profile.html All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.

You know what’s really funny is that if there was anything, anything at all that would have smeared the Clintons further, Bush aides would have invited the Press into the White House in a New York minute to photograph the "devastation"… That should have been the first clue that there wasn’t any there, there… Maybe a few schoolyard pranks, but where’s the beef? Deano

Response:

Since Deano didn’t believe the first reports, sees the GAO report as proof that the first reports were lies……what makes you think he won’t believe THIS report is a lie?? You see, it’s all a "smear". cheers bob

Now in addition to all of your other outstanding traits, I’ll have to add psychic. Deano

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Clinton Vandalism It looks as if the White House vandalism story was true after all. The Bush White House has finally come forward with details of how outgoing Clinton administration staffers vandalized the executive offices. White House press secretary Ari Fleischer tells the Washington Post that the damage included "obscene graffiti in six offices, a 20-inch-wide presidential seal ripped off a wall, 10 sliced telephone lines and 100 inoperable computer keyboards." Also, pornographic or obscene greetings were left on 15 telephone lines in the offices of the vice president and White House counsel and in the scheduling and advance offices. Most of the damage was in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, next door to the White House. "The only incident Fleischer described in the White House itself was a photocopier in the West Wing that had pictures of naked people interspersed with blank photocopy paper so deep in the tray that they were still popping out weeks after the inauguration," the Post says. What about that report in the Kansas City Star that there was "no truth" in the scandal? The Post explains that the General Services Administration, which was the source of the Star’s report, found only that "the condition of the real property was consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy." In other words, the Clinton staff managed not to do any serious damage to the buildings.

The GAO had ask for any documentation of said destruction, at which time the GOP boys wouldn’t admit to any. Now, low and behold, somebody produces a list of some school boy pranks and repubs are dancing in the streets. If naked pictures in a copy machine are the only "noted" occurrence’s that involved the White House, what’s the problem? Again, I would like to see a little more proof than somebody coming up with a list of this alleged horrible devastation months after the claim was made. Till then, no cigar! Deano (I’m making my own list)

Response:

The Clinton Vandalism It looks as if the White House vandalism story was true after all. The Bush White House has finally come forward with details of how outgoing Clinton administration staffers vandalized the executive offices. White House press secretary Ari Fleischer tells the Washington Post that the damage included "obscene graffiti in six offices, a 20-inch-wide presidential seal ripped off a wall, 10 sliced telephone lines and 100 inoperable computer keyboards." Also, pornographic or obscene greetings were left on 15 telephone lines in the offices of the vice president and White House counsel and in the scheduling and advance offices. Most of the damage was in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, next door to the White House. "The only incident Fleischer described in the White House itself was a photocopier in the West Wing that had pictures of naked people interspersed with blank photocopy paper so deep in the tray that they were still popping out weeks after the inauguration," the Post says. What about that report in the Kansas City Star that there was "no truth" in the scandal? The Post explains that the General Services Administration, which was the source of the Star’s report, found only that "the condition of the real property was consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy." In other words, the Clinton staff managed not to do any serious damage to the buildings.

Response:

Question:

How difficult do you think it would be for a person who has worked for many years in finance and accounting at public companies to make the transition to a not-for-profit school district? Do you think it would be difficult to get acclimated to governmental accounting? Do you think there would be a long learning curve? Some people have suggested to me that there is a stigma about working at a non-profit. They say that it cheapens a person’s resume. Do you find that to be true? Seems to me that it would broaden a person’s resume instead of the other way around.  Thanks. Mike

Not only that, you might bring in some fresh ideas.  Go for it. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

How difficult do you think it would be for a person who has worked for many years in finance and accounting at public companies to make the transition to a not-for-profit school district?…

Not hard, as long as one can keep an open mind and is willing to read up on the subject. I’ve met people who have floated back and forth over the years between business and small districts. I have met some people who have problems with fund, mandated, governmental and regulatory accounting.  In every case its been because they were too pig headed to crack the books and ask questions. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *  Unemployed five years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *                                                             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

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Question:

I have not been able to obtain any Construction Co. references from Solomon or any of the resellers they gave me.  Are there any Solomon Construction user out there?

Response:

You probably already have the answer you are looking for. If neither Solomon nor their resellers can give you a Construction User reference, you are probably looking at the WRONG software for a construction business.  There are lots of good construction packages available – why not look at them?

Response:

Solomon along with RealWord address the vertical maket. Depending on the type of construction there are basic applications required such as Job Costing with manhours, material, subcontractsd, U/M. Lump Sum, equipment hours, quantity  and cost. Can your software project various units of cost, manhours, quantity etc? How is your general ledger structered?  Sub-accounts/phases? Does Solomon have Job % complete reporting? How do you apply your overhead?  What fixed costs/overhaed included in your estimate. You should have some type of billing program, example AIA. If you keep the Solomon software you can manage your costs with  additional software such as Primavera Project Planner and Primavera Expedition,  though I am not aware of an interface for these products with Solomn. You could even set an acceptable construction accounting system with QuickBooks Pro depending upon the size of the construction company and dollar volume. Dave Copenhaver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have not been able to obtain any Construction Co. references from Solomon or any of the resellers they gave me.  Are there any Solomon Construction user out there?

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Question:

So you pay 140*100 = $14,000 each year to own your plane?! Wow, I’m sure glad I went with fixed gear/fixed prop! (… but let’s never race.)

Did you have to go and multiply that out!!  That’s not fair.  I like my rule better.  Money spent on the airplane just doesn’t count.  There is no way to financially justify owning a classic aircraft, so don’t try. BTW how much does it cost to support a fixed gear/fixed prop? Margy

Response:

Did you have to go and multiply that out!!  That’s not fair.  I like my rule better.  Money spent on the airplane just doesn’t count.  

I agree.  There are definitely things better not known BTW how much does it cost to support a fixed gear/fixed prop?

My own costs: about zero dollars for cost of money (if I can’t spend it, it ain’t no good anyway) about $1000/year for insurance about $800/year for tie-down about $1000 – $2000 per year for the annual (and mid-year oil changes and other "normal" maintenance) about $20/hour for fuel about $10/hour for maintenance reserve and hopefully no nasty surprises like ADs or new cylinders… — Bob (I think people can figure out how to email me…) (replace ihatessppaamm with my name (rnoel) and hw1 with mediaone)

Response:

I just bought a 1979 Cessna 172.  My break even is 10 hours per month / 120 hours per year based upon the local rental rates here in Houston:  $89/hour for IFR certified C-172. In the last 4 days, I’ve logged 7 hours.  I plan to average 20 hours or more per month.  We’ll see how it goes. Payments are $489/month. Good luck. John Green

EVERYTHING I read says that renting is cheaper than buying, but I have yet to hear anyone deal with the matter in terms of the equity that is established by ownership. Most people would rather own their homes than rent because renting is like throwing money away while buying a home is a way to develop equity. This is in spite of the fact that home ownership is a headache, involves extra money for insurance, upkeep, etc. (sound familiar?) If pilot #1 rents a Cessna 150 100 hours a year (just half of what I heard is amounts to a cost of $5000 each year (probably more since rental fees will likely go up in that period). If you include rental insurance in that equation, that could amount to as much as another $400+. In ten years, that means that at least $54000 will be basically "thrown to the wind" and our hypothetical pilot has no more to show for the expense than a full log book. How does that compare to pilot #2, who purchased a 150 at the beginning of this same ten year period? Certainly, it would amount to a sizable outlay of funds, but at least at the end of the decade, he would have the equity of the airplane to show for it. Could it be that renting is cheaper in the short run, but in the long run, ownership becomes more feasible when the equity of the plane is figured in? I would really welcome anyone who is able to enlighten me on the wisdom or foolishness of this comparison?

Response:

If there are any accountants here, perhaps they can tell us if that would not make a leaseback arrangement more favorable as a way to finance an airplane? A leaseback might make the interest, maintenance, insurance and depreciation tax deductible, and perhaps the resulting tax shelter would offset the disadvantages of leaseback arrangements.

The problem with attempting to operate it as a business is that it is a business. Unless you take an active role in the leaseback, you can’t deduct the losses from the business against anything other than passive activities.  In order to make a profit, you really have to have decent management, control over the maintenance, and high availability and rental rates.  You can do this if you’re careful with a trainer, although it’s also quite easy to get screwed. Note that your maintenance will be HIGHER, your insurance will be HIGHER (by 3 times or more),  and you lose most of the benefits of having it as your own plane (continuous availability, ability to leave your own stuff in the plane, etc…).  Depreciation, while deductible is a double edged sword because aircraft really don’t depreciate (even as primary trainers) as fast as the depreciation schedule, so you’ll recapture all that when you dispose of it. I don’t want to discourage anybody who wants to start an aviation business (we need more people in the industry), but leaseback is not just a convenient way to park your plane for a few tax deductions.

Response:

I saw a funny quote by a guy in this month’s AOPA pilot.  I don’t remember the name, but he started flying in 1923 and recently retired due to medical reasons. He flew for United Air lines and has many thousands of hours.  He said: "I’ve lost money in every aviation business I’ve ever started." Of course, he had lots of fun too.

If there are any accountants here, perhaps they can tell us if that would not make a leaseback arrangement more favorable as a way to finance an airplane? A leaseback might make the interest, maintenance, insurance and depreciation tax deductible, and perhaps the resulting tax shelter would offset the disadvantages of leaseback arrangements.

The problem with attempting to operate it as a business is that it is a business. Unless you take an active role in the leaseback, you can’t deduct the losses from the business against anything other than passive activities.  In order to make a profit, you really have to have decent management, control over the maintenance, and high availability and rental rates.  You can do this if you’re careful with a trainer, although it’s also quite easy to get screwed. Note that your maintenance will be HIGHER, your insurance will be HIGHER (by 3 times or more),  and you lose most of the benefits of having it as your own plane (continuous availability, ability to leave your own stuff in the plane, etc…).  Depreciation, while deductible is a double edged sword because aircraft really don’t depreciate (even as primary trainers) as fast as the depreciation schedule, so you’ll recapture all that when you dispose of it. I don’t want to discourage anybody who wants to start an aviation business (we need more people in the industry), but leaseback is not just a convenient way to park your plane for a few tax deductions.

Response:

I just bought a 1979 Cessna 172.  My break even is 10 hours per month / 120 hours per year based upon the local rental rates here in Houston:  $89/hour for IFR certified C-172. In the last 4 days, I’ve logged 7 hours.  I plan to average 20 hours or more per month.  We’ll see how it goes.

On the Navion (260HP retract, with class), at 100 hours a year, it works out to $140/hour, at 150 hours a year it works out to $100/hour. Of course, you can’t rent Navions around here.  Arrows go for around $100/hr.

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EVERYTHING I read says that renting is cheaper than buying, but I have yet to hear anyone deal with the matter in terms of the equity that is established by ownership. Most people would rather own their homes than rent because renting is like throwing money away while buying a home is a way to develop equity.

People who say things like that generally don’t understand concepts like "opportunity cost." This is in spite of the fact that home ownership is a headache, involves extra money for insurance, upkeep, etc. (sound familiar?)

Way too familiar. If pilot #1 rents a Cessna 150 100 hours a year (just half of what I heard is amounts to a cost of $5000 each year (probably more since rental fees will likely go up in that period). If you include rental insurance in that equation, that could amount to as much as another $400+. In ten years, that means that at least $54000 will be basically "thrown to the wind" and our hypothetical pilot has no more to show for the expense than a full log book.

I don’t even start to understand the part about throwing money to the wind.  You really don’t feel that the renter got anything in return for his money (besides "a full log book")? How does that compare to pilot #2, who purchased a 150 at the beginning of this same ten year period? Certainly, it would amount to a sizable outlay of funds, but at least at the end of the decade, he would have the equity of the airplane to show for it.

He’d also have the interest (and risks and sale costs…) to show for it. I suspect that for *most* people, it’d be far better (economically) to invest in something more conventional and let someone else provide airplanes. Could it be that renting is cheaper in the short run, but in the long run, ownership becomes more feasible when the equity of the plane is figured in? I would really welcome anyone who is able to enlighten me on the wisdom or foolishness of this comparison?

I don’t think it’s anywhere near that simple – even from a strictly econmical perspective. (Airplane purchases are often made for non- economic reasons.  I’m an example.) –kyler

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An important difference to remember is that home ownership is heavily subsidized by the deductibility of the interest payments. There is no such deduction for the interest on an airplane loan unless it is a business expense.

That’s not necessarily true.  I purchased our Aztec with a home equity loan.  I think I’ve even seen home equity loans to 110%(?) of appraised value. That still doesn’t magically make it economically sensible (over renting).  In our case, there was no other way (of which I knew) to get a roomy soft- field-capable twin for taking my family on trips at a moment’s notice. –kyler

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That’s not necessarily true.  I purchased our Aztec with a home equity loan.  I think I’ve even seen home equity loans to 110%(?) of appraised value.

The interest on the amount over the value of the home is not deductible.   BDWood

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unless you join a club.  i went from renting a 172 at $73/hr wet *hobbs* with a daily minimum for overnights to a warrior ii at $45/hr wet *tach* with no daily minimum, also paying $45/mo dues.  and the club warrior has a garmin gns 430 in it–show me a rental with one of those!  i break even at a little over 2 hours a month, but i’m flying more like 6-10 hr/month, so i’m saving big time.  and once i get my ticket (still a student), i qualify to move up to the club’s archer ($55/hr) or dakota ($67.50/hr), similarly equipped.  with those kinds of numbers, you’d have to fly a lot more than 200 hr/yr to justify buying a plane. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I feel to compare cost, you must first compare "use". If your flying is a series of 1 hour local flights; renting would be the answer. But if you use your aircraft for weekend getaways, vacations, and visiting out-of-town family; owing quickly becomes the only option due to minimum daily use requirements and aircraft availability for renters. Regards, Bill EVERYTHING I read says that renting is cheaper than buying, but I have yet to hear anyone deal with the matter in terms of the equity that is established by ownership. Most people would rather own their homes than rent because renting is like throwing money away while buying a home is a way to develop equity. This is in spite of the fact that home ownership is a headache, involves extra money for insurance, upkeep, etc. (sound familiar?) If pilot #1 rents a Cessna 150 100 hours a year (just half of what I heard is amounts to a cost of $5000 each year (probably more since rental fees will likely go up in that period). If you include rental insurance in that equation, that could amount to as much as another $400+. In ten years, that means that at least $54000 will be basically "thrown to the wind" and our hypothetical pilot has no more to show for the expense than a full log book. How does that compare to pilot #2, who purchased a 150 at the beginning of this same ten year period? Certainly, it would amount to a sizable outlay of funds, but at least at the end of the decade, he would have the equity of the airplane to show for it. Could it be that renting is cheaper in the short run, but in the long run, ownership becomes more feasible when the equity of the plane is figured in? I would really welcome anyone who is able to enlighten me on the wisdom or foolishness of this comparison?

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One of the key reasons that I am planning on buying an airplane is safety. You get very good at knowing a plane when you have flown it for a while. You get to know the sounds, the feel, and all of it’s quirks and idiosyncrasies. You know the performance better than the POH. (Remember, those numbers are a new airplane, professional pilot, ideal conditions, etc.) Not to mention that renters won’t let you fly their airplanes for the type of you may want to do(mountain, bush, off airport, etc). I would rather have my own airplane than a house, so it’s easy for me to justify the dollar difference. Bob Sublett

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Most people would rather own their homes than rent because renting is like throwing money away while buying a home is a way to develop equity.

Most people in Europe prefer to rent rather than own because it’s less expensive. That’s because European governments don’t allow citizens to deduct home loan interest on their taxes. If you weren’t given that deduction in the US, your house would be worth about what you paid for it (including interest, not counting maintenance) at the end of thirty years. Given the unstable real estate markets I have seen, it could easily be worth twice that or half that (or nothing at all). In contrast, you can’t deduct the interest on the aircraft loan. New planes take a hit from depreciation for a few years, and then start to climb. At the end of thirty years, it’ll be worth about the same amount in dollars as you paid, which means you’re out the interest. Judging by the prices in TAP, it could easily be worth half again as much, but generally that’s because someone has spent twice as much on new avionics or other renovations. Since inflation applies equally to houses and planes, we can ignore it. For most people, however, aircraft ownership means buying a used plane with a short term loan and keeping it for less than 30 years. In many of these cases, they are able to sell the plane for about the amount of the principle and interest. Many people simply ignore equity and interest in calculating the cost of aircraft ownership. If you do that, it usually works out that renting is cheaper if you fly less than around 150 hours per year (quoted figures range from 100 hours to 250 hours, depending on who’s talking). When I owned my Cessna 150, the break-even point worked out to about 105 hours. With my Maule, I don’t want to know. George Patterson,  N3162Q.

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One of the key reasons that I am planning on buying an airplane is safety. You get very good at knowing a plane when you have flown it for a while. You get to know the sounds, the feel, and all of it’s quirks and idiosyncrasies. You know the performance better than the POH. (Remember, those numbers are a new airplane, professional pilot, ideal conditions, etc.) Not to mention that renters won’t let you fly their airplanes for the type of you may want to do(mountain, bush, off airport, etc). I would rather have my own airplane than a house, so it’s easy for me to justify the dollar difference. Bob Sublett

Safety is a good point—if you are the only person that flys the plane you know what to look at. There is no greater satisfaction than owning your own plane—-and ownership is rare outside of the USA. I think i’ve seen statistics that indicate that only 25% of pilots own aircraft—it is a fairly elite club—and I think ownership is worth the price in spades. Just about any dilbert with a job can buy a new Mercedes—for the same $ a pilot can buy a used Cessna that will appreciate every year while the MB’s value will slowly decline. Years ago when I started flying and had to get in line at the rental desk to rent a 172 I felt pretty lame—I didn’t even feel like a pilot. The whole thing about piloting an aircraft is that you are in control of something—and ownership gives you the ultimate control. I’ve owned 10 different SE planes in the last dozen years and made $ selling them every single time, so I think if I put a slide-rule to it I would say that my flying has been basically free. The planes I look at to buy double in value every 5-7 years. I say if you can afford to buy, do it.

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Annual Hanger –                          $2,400 Annual Fuel Bill –                          $3,500 Annual Inspection –                      $0 – It’s a homebuilt Annual lost opportunity on $50K- $5,000 Etc. The ability to pull the airplane out any day, any time and fly it to any spot within the U.S. without worrying about schedules, daily usage minimums, etc, etc.                      - PRICELESS For all other purchases there’s Gold Mastercard Scott Gesele N506RV – Flying and NOT counting the dollars.   Let’s see, should I just take the wife for a couple of $100 hamburger day trips this weekend, or should we spend the entire weekend in Niagara Falls.  That descision can wait until Saturday morning – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -#2 buys 150 for 15,000 — assume average return of 10% he could have made on that money, and it costs him 1500/yr forgetting about compounding. Then insurance – say 700/yr. Tie down – 100/mo  = 1200/yr Fuel and oil for 100 hrs = 1400 Annual – 400 (if he’s lucky) Maintenance – 500 Engine reserve – 600/yr. That equals $6300/yr. Then assume his "investment in the 150 appreciates 3%/yr = $450.00 (forgetting compounding again) and his overall cost is 5850. But remember ownership isn’t only about the bottom line cost — pride of ownership, availability, and knowing what kind of plane and what quality of maintenance is involved in the care of the plane has value, too.

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I own because "I LOVE TO FLY". Cost isn’t the major issue, but is a big issue. People who love to fish buy boats, cars, you name it. A man and his toys… No rental bird is as spiffy as my bird nor as well maintained (IMHO which is highly biased!) and my bird isn’t abused. Its new wheel pants added 5 knots and it cruises just fine. I take it out WHENEVER "I" want to!  That is a big deal too! Any time day OR night… Armand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, it costs.

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But remember ownership isn’t only about the bottom line cost — pride of ownership, availability, and knowing what kind of plane and what quality of maintenance is involved in the care of the plane has value, too.

which is why, against many people’s advice and knowing it would end up more expensive, I went for my own plane: I know that it is well equipped to full IF standards, I know who is flying it (a few people besides myself, all of whom I know well) and I know that when I need it, it is there. Yes, it costs.

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So you pay 140*100 = $14,000 each year to own your plane?! Wow, I’m sure glad I went with fixed gear/fixed prop! (… but let’s never race.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On the Navion (260HP retract, with class), at 100 hours a year, it works out to $140/hour, at 150 hours a year it works out to $100/hour. Of course, you can’t rent Navions around here.  Arrows go for around $100/hr.

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So you pay 140*100 = $14,000 each year to own your plane?! Wow, I’m sure glad I went with fixed gear/fixed prop! (… but let’s never race.)

That includes everything including payments on the loan. I figure the fixed costs at about 12,000/yr and 22.50/hour for fuel.

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I have owned, rented, borrowed, begged, bummed, and bartered for flight time… Owning is the head and shoulders best, and of course being the best it is also the most expensive… I am currently back to renting and the signficant other is on the warpath demanding that I get another airplane, pointing out local planes for sale, etc., due to the fact that rented airplanes have had mechanical problems 4 times out of the last 6 times we flew (or tried to)… She flat refuses to fly in a rented plane any more… So, I’m back to bumming, begging, etc… The instant availability of a squawk free airplane has a price tag that is difficult to quantify, but definitely is on the positive side of the cost per hour ledger, when you are totalling up… Denny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just bought a 1979 Cessna 172.  My break even is 10 hours per month / 120 hours per year based upon the local rental rates here in Houston:  $89/hour for IFR certified C-172. In the last 4 days, I’ve logged 7 hours.  I plan to average 20 hours or more per month.  We’ll see how it goes. On the Navion (260HP retract, with class), at 100 hours a year, it works out to $140/hour, at 150 hours a year it works out to $100/hour. Of course, you can’t rent Navions around here.  Arrows go for around $100/hr.

Response:

Nice shot…. Denny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Annual Hanger –                          $2,400 Annual Fuel Bill –                          $3,500 Annual Inspection –                      $0 – It’s a homebuilt Annual lost opportunity on $50K- $5,000 Etc. The ability to pull the airplane out any day, any time and fly it to any spot within the U.S. without worrying about schedules, daily usage minimums, etc, etc.                      - PRICELESS For all other purchases there’s Gold Mastercard Scott Gesele N506RV – Flying and NOT counting the dollars. Let’s see, should I just take the wife for a couple of $100 hamburger day trips this weekend, or should we spend the entire weekend in Niagara Falls.  That descision can wait until Saturday morning #2 buys 150 for 15,000 — assume average return of 10% he could have made on that money, and it costs him 1500/yr forgetting about compounding. Then insurance – say 700/yr. Tie down – 100/mo  = 1200/yr Fuel and oil for 100 hrs = 1400 Annual – 400 (if he’s lucky) Maintenance – 500 Engine reserve – 600/yr. That equals $6300/yr. Then assume his "investment in the 150 appreciates 3%/yr = $450.00 (forgetting compounding again) and his overall cost is 5850. But remember ownership isn’t only about the bottom line cost — pride of ownership, availability, and knowing what kind of plane and what quality of maintenance is involved in the care of the plane has value, too.

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So you pay 140*100 = $14,000 each year to own your plane?!

Let’s say the Navion costs around $70K. (That’s a WAG.)  If you borrow from the aircraft loan places I called, you’ll pay around 10% interest.  That’s $7K/year – half of the total cost. For yet more WAGs, let’s say the fuel burn is 13 gph at $2/gallon for $2.6K/ year.  Throw in a hangar at $150/month ($1800/year) and you’re left with only $2600/year for maintenance and insurance. Sounds like a bargain to me.  Heck, our maintenance costs about $14K/year… –kyler

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#2 buys 150 for 15,000 — assume average return of 10% he could have made on that money, and it costs him 1500/yr forgetting about compounding. Then insurance – say 700/yr. Tie down – 100/mo  = 1200/yr Fuel and oil for 100 hrs = 1400 Annual – 400 (if he’s lucky) Maintenance – 500 Engine reserve – 600/yr. That equals $6300/yr. Then assume his "investment in the 150 appreciates 3%/yr = $450.00 (forgetting compounding again)  and his overall cost is 5850. But remember ownership isn’t only about the bottom line cost — pride of ownership, availability, and knowing what kind of plane and what quality of maintenance is involved in the care of the plane has value, too.

Response:

    I feel to compare cost, you must first compare "use". If your flying is a series of 1 hour local flights; renting would be the answer. But if you use your aircraft for weekend getaways, vacations, and visiting out-of-town family; owing quickly becomes the only option due to minimum daily use requirements and aircraft availability for renters. Regards, Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – EVERYTHING I read says that renting is cheaper than buying, but I have yet to hear anyone deal with the matter in terms of the equity that is established by ownership. Most people would rather own their homes than rent because renting is like throwing money away while buying a home is a way to develop equity. This is in spite of the fact that home ownership is a headache, involves extra money for insurance, upkeep, etc. (sound familiar?) If pilot #1 rents a Cessna 150 100 hours a year (just half of what I heard is amounts to a cost of $5000 each year (probably more since rental fees will likely go up in that period). If you include rental insurance in that equation, that could amount to as much as another $400+. In ten years, that means that at least $54000 will be basically "thrown to the wind" and our hypothetical pilot has no more to show for the expense than a full log book. How does that compare to pilot #2, who purchased a 150 at the beginning of this same ten year period? Certainly, it would amount to a sizable outlay of funds, but at least at the end of the decade, he would have the equity of the airplane to show for it. Could it be that renting is cheaper in the short run, but in the long run, ownership becomes more feasible when the equity of the plane is figured in? I would really welcome anyone who is able to enlighten me on the wisdom or foolishness of this comparison?

Response:

(Essha) writes: Most people would rather own their homes than rent because renting is like throwing money away while buying a home is a way to develop equity.

An important difference to remember is that home ownership is heavily subsidized by the deductibility of the interest payments. There is no such deduction for the interest on an airplane loan unless it is a business expense. If there are any accountants here, perhaps they can tell us if that would not make a leaseback arrangement more favorable as a way to finance an airplane? A leaseback might make the interest, maintenance, insurance and depreciation tax deductible, and perhaps the resulting tax shelter would offset the disadvantages of leaseback arrangements. Don Don Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS PP-ASEL Chesapeake, VA – CPK

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EVERYTHING I read says that renting is cheaper than buying, but I have yet to hear anyone deal with the matter in terms of the equity that is established by ownership. Most people would rather own their homes than rent because renting is like throwing money away while buying a home is a way to develop equity. This is in spite of the fact that home ownership is a headache, involves extra money for insurance, upkeep, etc. (sound familiar?) If pilot #1 rents a Cessna 150 100 hours a year (just half of what I heard is amounts to a cost of $5000 each year (probably more since rental fees will likely go up in that period). If you include rental insurance in that equation, that could amount to as much as another $400+. In ten years, that means that at least $54000 will be basically "thrown to the wind" and our hypothetical pilot has no more to show for the expense than a full log book. How does that compare to pilot #2, who purchased a 150 at the beginning of this same ten year period? Certainly, it would amount to a sizable outlay of funds, but at least at the end of the decade, he would have the equity of the airplane to show for it. Could it be that renting is cheaper in the short run, but in the long run, ownership becomes more feasible when the equity of the plane is figured in? I would really welcome anyone who is able to enlighten me on the wisdom or foolishness of this comparison?

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Question:

We supply, install and maintain several accounting packages, one of which is Opera for DOS. For more info, go to : http://www.city-accounting.co.uk Jeff

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Hello John: If your application was written in FoxPro or Clipper (many were!), there is a good chance you can fix the Y2K bug in your current software with Y2KFOX (http://www.y2kfox.com). Y2KFOX sets a "century rollover year" so that 2-digit years are automatically translated to the correct century. It is done externally to the program, so source or code changes are not usually required. There are many people using Y2KFOX with xBase accounting packages — these include SBT, Accountmate, and others. If you are not certain what language your application was written in, Y2KFOX can help you find out. Also, there are demos if you would like to try Y2KFOX for yourself. Regards, Maureen Maureen Weicher Communication Horizons http://www.y2kfox.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John

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IBM PC DOS v7 is Y2K  compliant and is much better solution for your situation than Microsoft can provide. Check IBM web site for details. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John

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John;     We are a small manufacturer and for years have used a package on Lantastic called Inmass/MRP.  They have a comparatively inexpensive dos based package that I know for fact will work well on your network.  We ran Lantastic and Inmass together for years.  Call Pat Kittridge at (520) 795-6800 and tell him Michael English at DAC Intl. referred him to you.  It doesnt cost anything to talk.  I still use Inmass and can recommend their software and support.  I am a cost accountant/analyst/network administrator for my company and am very familiar with Inmass/MRP.  We recently converted to a Netware system and all the data and programs for Inmass transferred/converted with no error or problems. Michael English – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John

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It _is_ networkable (look for version 4.6). John, I seem to remember that the last DOS version of One Write Plus was advertised to be Y2K ok.  I don’t recall whether it was networkable.

– Please remove NOSPAM from address when replying.

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Something no one has mentioned is Repetitive Stress Injury. I’ve been a fairly heavy user of computers since around 1980.  I had not experienced any Repetitive Stress problems until my first tax season using windows.  By the end of March I was in agony.  My neck, RIGHT arm, and RIGHT shoulder were killing me.  After a lot of reading, I concluded that the likely culprit was my mouse. I tried a number of different pointers, and ultimately settled on a simple kensington scroll mouse with a homemade "cab" taped to the top (fits my hand) mounted on the left (I am ambidextrous).  I also tend to use control keys when I can.  I have been largely pain free for a couple of years now.  I did notice some minor hints of pain in my LEFT arm and shoulder this past tax season. Jim Hudspeth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The real problem with DOS software is that most publishers ar e migrating to windows and less and less publishers sell and maintain DOS software. You will be forced to change to windows in the need future. Well, if the DOS program is "well behaved" then it would probably continue to run in a DOS session under OS2, Windows NT, Windows 2000 etc for many years to come. The limitations are that the program only access memory in certain standard ways, especially extended memory above 640K, never make any illegal, direct memory accesses or access the hardware directly and so forth. None of the good performing DOS software qualifies.  The reason it was 10 times faster than a Windows program is it went directly to the hard disk controllers and memory, etc. of the 1980’s or early 1990s, and took direct control! Obviously DOS programs are obsolete, the underlying premise is no longer valid that they are significantly faster. The only stuff they do faster is small small small.   Those things can also be done in a blink of an eye by todays CPUs.  And then, DOS software can do nothing big. (Don’t tell me Clipper can manage 500Meg databases- I know: but that is not a big computing task.)  There is not a single business need that can be better performed by DOS software than Windows or Linux or OS2 software and there are dozens of very very important business needs which DOS softare is hopelessly unable to serve.  Primarily in the areas of interoperating with other software and other enterprises. The reasons I prefer DOS is not the processing speed you refer to, but the mechanism of the interface of most DOS programs. I find it much faster to navigate via keystrokes than Mouse manipulation. Also the main reason for my wishing to continue with our current DOS set-up is our use of 2 third party programs which run as TSRs. For instance we process all Invoices for UPS shipment with as few as 3 or 4 keystrokes (most info is "screen captured").We have a Credit Card processing program that works similarly. We process many low dollar value orders, which take under 1 minute each to Invoice including UPS manifesting. It is not cost efficient to spend more time processing orders than this. Possibly there are some Windows programs which may have all these functions written into them but they will most likely be lacking something we’re looking for on the accounting side, or are far more expensive than our current needs warrant. (Plus DOS computers are much easier to maintain) Vice it may be, I still think keyboards (especially those tactile feel ones) are sexier than any mouse I’ve ever met.(I knew Minny and Mickey) Ditch the junk.  Or if you like it, admit that it’s a vice and you’re just sentimental about it… If you like DOS I really recommend you install linux, you’ll love it. Todd If there were any LINUX programs available out there for our purposes, I’d try and get sentimental about it too. — John

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The real problem with DOS software is that most publishers ar e migrating to windows and less and less publishers sell and maintain DOS software. You will be forced to change to windows in the need future. Well, if the DOS program is "well behaved" then it would probably continue to run in a DOS session under OS2, Windows NT, Windows 2000 etc for many years to come. The limitations are that the program only access memory in certain standard ways, especially extended memory above 640K, never make any illegal, direct memory accesses or access the hardware directly and so forth. None of the good performing DOS software qualifies.  The reason it was 10 times faster than a Windows program is it went directly to the hard disk controllers and memory, etc. of the 1980’s or early 1990s, and took direct control! Obviously DOS programs are obsolete, the underlying premise is no longer valid that they are significantly faster. The only stuff they do faster is small small small.   Those things can also be done in a blink of an eye by todays CPUs.  And then, DOS software can do nothing big. (Don’t tell me Clipper can manage 500Meg databases- I know: but that is not a big computing task.)  There is not a single business need that can be better performed by DOS software than Windows or Linux or OS2 software and there are dozens of very very important business needs which DOS softare is hopelessly unable to serve.  Primarily in the areas of interoperating with other software and other enterprises. Ditch the junk.  Or if you like it, admit that it’s a vice and you’re just sentimental about it…

I have two DOS programs on the NT 4.0 box that I’m using to write this message that I intend to keep. One is multiplan.  For some small tasks it is simply unbeatable, at least for me.  A good part of that may have to do with the fact that I’ve used it for over 15 years. I can run it in my sleep.  I do use excel for larger tasks. The other is a flat file data base progarm called Q & A (4.0 Version).  It is one of the most reliable programs I have ever used.  It is also the core component of my wife’s anesthesia practice billing system. We get our input information in paper form from the Surgery Center and input it into a Q & A template that matches the format that we receive it in.  We then process it to a file which is picked up by our electronic billing program (also a DOS program), which transmits it to a clearinghouse.  X days later we have checks in hand.  It works. If you like DOS I really recommend you install linux, you’ll love it.

As soon as someone comes out with reliable tax software that will run under linux, I probably will. Jim Hudspeth

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The real problem with DOS software is that most publishers ar e migrating to windows and less and less publishers sell and maintain DOS software. You will be forced to change to windows in the need future.

Well, if the DOS program is "well behaved" then it would probably continue to run in a DOS session under OS2, Windows NT, Windows 2000 etc for many years to come. The limitations are that the program only access memory in certain standard ways, especially extended memory above 640K, never make any illegal, direct memory accesses or access the hardware directly and so forth.   None of the good performing DOS software qualifies.  The reason it was 10 times faster than a Windows program is it went directly to the hard disk controllers and memory, etc. of the 1980’s or early 1990s, and took direct control!   Obviously DOS programs are obsolete, the underlying premise is no longer valid that they are significantly faster. The only stuff they do faster is small small small.   Those things can also be done in a blink of an eye by todays CPUs.  And then, DOS software can do nothing big. (Don’t tell me Clipper can manage 500Meg databases- I know: but that is not a big computing task.)  There is not a single business need that can be better performed by DOS software than Windows or Linux or OS2 software and there are dozens of very very important business needs which DOS softare is hopelessly unable to serve.  Primarily in the areas of interoperating with other software and other enterprises. Ditch the junk.  Or if you like it, admit that it’s a vice and you’re just sentimental about it… If you like DOS I really recommend you install linux, you’ll love it. Todd

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The real problem with DOS software is that most publishers ar e migrating to windows and less and less publishers sell and maintain DOS software. You will be forced to change to windows in the need future.

No question that is true (just as there isn’t much CP/M software out there anymore either <grin).  But that’s a distinct issue from the Y2K issue.

Response:

The dos product has one version which is y2k compliant, 4.6. Just FYI. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, I seem to remember that the last DOS version of One Write Plus was advertised to be Y2K ok.  I don’t recall whether it was networkable. One Write Plus was bought by Peachtree, which was then bought by Sage. They may or may not still be selling the program.  Might be worth a few phone calls. I’m still using some DOS stuff, but I now run it in a window. Jim Hudspeth, CPA I was not aware that DOS was the limiter regarding Y2K, since our other DOS programs are certified Y2K. I thought the older BIOS chips is the only problem. When DOS 6.0 gives date and time it is in this  format: date is: Tue 08-24-1999 Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John How will this get you around Y2K if DOS is not Y2K?   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

John, I seem to remember that the last DOS version of One Write Plus was advertised to be Y2K ok.  I don’t recall whether it was networkable. One Write Plus was bought by Peachtree, which was then bought by Sage.  They may or may not still be selling the program.  Might be worth a few phone calls. I’m still using some DOS stuff, but I now run it in a window. Jim Hudspeth, CPA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was not aware that DOS was the limiter regarding Y2K, since our other DOS programs are certified Y2K. I thought the older BIOS chips is the only problem. When DOS 6.0 gives date and time it is in this  format: date is: Tue 08-24-1999 Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John How will this get you around Y2K if DOS is not Y2K?   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

Response:

Accpac Plus which is a DOS application if fully Y2K certified. Allan Martin Accpac Qualified Installer and Dealer NJ Area – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John How will this get you around Y2K if DOS is not Y2K?   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

Response:

How will this get you around Y2K if DOS is not Y2K?

MS-DOS is at least as Y2k compliant as MS Win 95 and MS Win 98 (indeed it may be more so as its easier to check !) — Roger Barnett

Response:

I was not aware that DOS was the limiter regarding Y2K, since our other DOS programs are certified Y2K. I thought the older BIOS chips is the only problem. When DOS 6.0 gives date and time it is in this  format: date is: Tue 08-24-1999

I think you need to be careful when we call something not Y2K compliant.  That is, is the problem that if you enter a date as 01/01/00 it will treat it as January 1, 1900 (so you have to remember to enter four digits) *OR* is that the system will simply fail to function as of that date?   It’s kind of like discussing bugs in a program.  It’s one thing if the program produces a cosmetic glitch on the screen when an obscure set of commands is entered.  It’s another if it dumps all values in the receivables file back to zero and, for good measure, trashes the hard drive it’s on.  Just as all bugs are not the same in terms of seriousness, not all Y2K glitches are the same.

Response:

The real problem with DOS software is that most publishers ar e migrating to windows and less and less publishers sell and maintain DOS software. You will be forced to change to windows in the need future. By the way, does anyone have payroll software for an IBM 1401? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was not aware that DOS was the limiter regarding Y2K, since our other DOS programs are certified Y2K. I thought the older BIOS chips is the only problem. When DOS 6.0 gives date and time it is in this  format: date is: Tue 08-24-1999 I think you need to be careful when we call something not Y2K compliant.  That is, is the problem that if you enter a date as 01/01/00 it will treat it as January 1, 1900 (so you have to remember to enter four digits) *OR* is that the system will simply fail to function as of that date? It’s kind of like discussing bugs in a program.  It’s one thing if the program produces a cosmetic glitch on the screen when an obscure set of commands is entered.  It’s another if it dumps all values in the receivables file back to zero and, for good measure, trashes the hard drive it’s on.  Just as all bugs are not the same in terms of seriousness, not all Y2K glitches are the same.

– Frederick E. Jorden http://fejcpapc.com/ Frederick E. Jorden, CPA PC (804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211

Response:

Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John

How will this get you around Y2K if DOS is not Y2K?   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.              World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

Response:

I was not aware that DOS was the limiter regarding Y2K, since our other DOS programs are certified Y2K. I thought the older BIOS chips is the only problem. When DOS 6.0 gives date and time it is in this  format: date is: Tue 08-24-1999 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am looking for an inexpensive DOS based Accounting package that is network-able (Lantastic) for a small business. We currently interface via TSR’s with a UPS shipping program and Credit Card processing program. It works efficiently enough that I do not want to get away from DOS. Our current program is NOT Y2K so that’s reason for the search. I am aware of ACCPAC, but would like to look at a few more. Any input would be much appreciated. TIA, John How will this get you around Y2K if DOS is not Y2K?   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

Response:

Question:

 That’s a whole diferent story.  I know that some of you guys out there must be good enough players too make women come from listening to your playing. Why don’t some of you speak up?.  It’s not that unusual.  It’s happened to me on over 5 occasions that I know of and I can’t estimate how many woman were. too embarrased to say anything.  Do I need to get testimonials or are all you guys just wannabe guitar players and your really only good with computers like someone suggested  to me the other day.  If that is the case here, then why don’t you try accounting or some other job suitable for you lack of talent and personality. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo? Are you sure she wasn’t trying to piss on you ?

Response:

That’s a whole diferent story.  I know that some of you guys out there must be good enough players too make women come from listening to your playing. Why don’t some of you speak up?.  It’s not that unusual.  It’s happened to me on over 5 occasions that I know of and I can’t estimate how many woman were. too embarrased to say anything.  Do I need to get testimonials or are all you guys just wannabe guitar players and your really only good with computers like someone suggested  to me the other day.  If that is the case here, then why don’t you try accounting or some other job suitable for you lack of talent and personality. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo? Are you sure she wasn’t trying to piss on you ?

Response:

Ever make a girl come from playing a solo?  Don’t even bother to respond if you haven’t.

yeah, but it was sure was messy on my guitar, and then there was all the chaffing…

Response:

Where have I lied?  Come up with some other than nah nah nah nahnah!  I’m rubber your glue…etc. Besides, I thought we were getting along. Troll-n.-someone who posts insulting and/or untruthful information in order to evoke a response, i.e. YOU.

Come on, like anyone’s going to believe you made a girl reach orgasm with a solo.

Response:

posting this?  I personally don’t give a rip if you’re better than me…..but that’s just me.  But I’ll bet I’m really in terms of how long I’ve been playing.  Later dude. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess if I didn’t have to live here,  I wouldn’t want to come down to minneapolis just for the very slight chance of getting a wah pedal.  P.S. I can only offer what I can afford to lose.  However, if I had said free tickets to Jamaca, every down and out  virtuoso would probably be beating a path to my door.  But I didn’t. Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads

Response:

What are you talking about? Think before you fart. There are plenty of people who play various aspects of music much better than me.  I’m just very,very good at improvising,  and writing  catchy, original  stuff. AlDemeola plays better conventional ( generic) jazz than I do.  But I’m not talking about old ideas. Yngvie plays yngvie better than me.  I’m not a cover player.  Although I can play all that I hear sooner or later.  The difficult I play right away, the impossible may take a day.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this is the best you could come up with?… some over distorted capriciata from Paganini? You gotta to do better than that to get my challenge. The woman that you made cum with your solo was Rue Paul.

Response:

Well, maybe you are but if your not interested in a free wah pedal why did you answer? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – posting this?  I personally don’t give a rip if you’re better than me…..but that’s just me.  But I’ll bet I’m really in terms of how long I’ve been playing.  Later dude.

Response:

I respect your answer, keep practicing.   You can do what you truly believe, if you truly believe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry, I’m no virtuoso, but it occurs to me that REAL players don’t need to brag or defend themselves. We have the confidence without needing to pump ourselves up to our peers. Just my $.02… TJS "…I’ll never find a better time to be alive than now…" Peter Hammill

Response:

You aren’t even worthy of a response foul mouth pete.   But I like you for some reason, you got "spunk". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wow, a cry baby? all to myself? WOW! how long did you save your allowance for it? btw, it’s "challenge" dumbass. Pete

Response:

Uh, Gee thanks, I know thats a real compliment.  Spinal Tap is a great lampoon.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Man, the next time that someone from Spinal Tap spontaneously combusts, I hope it’s Nigel Tufnel.  You would be the ultimate replacement for him. Are you a successful musician?  You don’t seem to be satisfied with yourself. If you were, you would realise that playing is not about competition- not egotism, winning, macho posturing, or childish challenges.

Response:

Where have I lied?  Come up with some other than nah nah nah nahnah!  I’m rubber your glue…etc. Besides, I thought we were getting along. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Troll-n.-someone who posts insulting and/or untruthful information in order to evoke a response, i.e. YOU.

Response:

 I can do that too, but I am very jaded in that department.  Too much excess leads to perversion.  Come down and join the orgy bring your family and some axel grease.   See you real soon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – nope, but I make a girl come with something else… and I bet you can’t

Response:

of a Jim Dunlap Cry Baby.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo?

Are you sure she wasn’t trying to piss on you ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads.  If you can kick my ass at guitar playing in accuracy, speed, and originality. With out playing a single lick from a known song.  I will give you a working wah wah pedal.  Afterall,  any beginner could learn the entire Rising Force album note for note in a couple of months.  As well as anything by Nuno Beetencourt.  So if your not a phoney, copycat, ,wanna be.  You may accept this challange with the sure knowledge that soon you will be the proud owner of a Jim Dunlap Cry Baby.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo? Don’t even bother to respond if you haven’t. nope, but I make a girl come with something else… and I bet you can’t

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess if I didn’t have to live here,  I wouldn’t want to come down to minneapolis just for the very slight chance of getting a wah pedal.  P.S. I can only offer what I can afford to lose.  However, if I had said free tickets to Jamaca, every down and out  virtuoso would probably be beating a path to my door.  But I didn’t. Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads

must be spring, I feel the hot air moveing in

Response:

So shouldn’t the satisfaction of making me eat my words be enough?  More than likely you’d go home with you tail between your legs.  Terry make up your mind or do you always hide behind the ambiguity of an androgenous moniker. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

So if your not a phoney, copycat, ,wanna be.  You may accept this challange with the sure knowledge that soon you will be the proud owner of a Jim Dunlap Cry Baby.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo?  Don’t even bother to respond if you haven’t.

I’m sorry, I’m no virtuoso, but it occurs to me that REAL players don’t need to brag or defend themselves. We have the confidence without needing to pump ourselves up to our peers. Just my $.02… TJS "…I’ll never find a better time to be alive than now…" Peter Hammill

Response:

I guess if I didn’t have to live here,  I wouldn’t want to come down to minneapolis just for the very slight chance of getting a wah pedal.  P.S.  I can only offer what I can afford to lose.  However, if I had said free tickets to Jamaca, every down and out  virtuoso would probably be beating a path to my door.  But I didn’t. Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads Swap licks ala cross roads????

this is the best you could come up with?… some over distorted capriciata from Paganini? You gotta to do better than that to get my challenge. The woman that you made cum with your solo was Rue Paul.

Response:

If you can kick my ass at guitar playing in accuracy, speed, and originality. With out playing a single lick from a known song.  I will give you a working wah wah pedal.

    No person I consider a musician would make such a statement, even if true, because accuracy and speed are about technic and originality is only one aspect of making music. DBluzz  

Response:

Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads.  If you can kick my ass at guitar playing in accuracy, speed, and originality. With out playing a single lick from a known song.  I will give you a working wah wah pedal.  Afterall,  any beginner could learn the entire Rising Force album note for note in a couple of months.  As well as anything by Nuno Beetencourt.  So if your not a phoney, copycat, ,wanna be.  You may accept this challange with the sure knowledge that soon you will be the proud owner of a Jim Dunlap Cry Baby.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo?  Don’t even bother to respond if you haven’t.

wow, a cry baby? all to myself? WOW! how long did you save your allowance for it? btw, it’s "challenge" dumbass. Pete

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads.  If you can kick my ass at guitar playing in accuracy, speed, and originality. With out playing a single lick from a known song.  I will give you a working wah wah pedal.  Afterall,  any beginner could learn the entire Rising Force album note for note in a couple of months.  As well as anything by Nuno Beetencourt.  So if your not a phoney, copycat, ,wanna be.  You may accept this challange with the sure knowledge that soon you will be the proud owner of a Jim Dunlap Cry Baby.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo?  Don’t even bother to respond if you haven’t.

Troll-n.-someone who posts insulting and/or untruthful information in order to evoke a response, i.e. YOU.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads.  If you can kick my ass at guitar playing in accuracy, speed, and originality. With out playing a single lick from a known song.  I will give you a working wah wah pedal.  Afterall,  any beginner could learn the entire Rising Force album note for note in a couple of months.  As well as anything by Nuno Beetencourt.  So if your not a phoney, copycat, ,wanna be.  You may accept this challange with the sure knowledge that soon you will be the proud owner of a Jim Dunlap Cry Baby.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo?  Don’t even bother to respond if you haven’t.

nope, but I make a girl come with something else… and I bet you can’t

Response:

Man, the next time that someone from Spinal Tap spontaneously combusts, I hope it’s Nigel Tufnel.  You would be the ultimate replacement for him.  Are you a successful musician?  You don’t seem to be satisfied with yourself. If you were, you would realise that playing is not about competition- not egotism, winning, macho posturing, or childish challenges.

Response:

Wow, I’m impressed. I usually made the girls cum after the show. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess if I didn’t have to live here,  I wouldn’t want to come down to minneapolis just for the very slight chance of getting a wah pedal.  P.S. I can only offer what I can afford to lose.  However, if I had said free tickets to Jamaca, every down and out  virtuoso would probably be beating a path to my door.  But I didn’t. Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads

Response:

I guess if I didn’t have to live here,  I wouldn’t want to come down to minneapolis just for the very slight chance of getting a wah pedal.  P.S.  I can only offer what I can afford to lose.  However, if I had said free tickets to Jamaca, every down and out  virtuoso would probably be beating a path to my door.  But I didn’t. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads

Response:

Some of you high spirited lads have been making rather disparaging suggestions as to whether I can actually play the guitar or not.  Rather then say, most people would say I’m the best guitar player they have ever met in their entire lives, which many a number of people have.  Why don’t you E-mail me next time your going to be in Minneapolis, and you can meet me at my studio and challenge me to swap licks ala cross roads.  If you can kick my ass at guitar playing in accuracy, speed, and originality. With out playing a single lick from a known song.  I will give you a working wah wah pedal.  Afterall,  any beginner could learn the entire Rising Force album note for note in a couple of months.  As well as anything by Nuno Beetencourt.  So if your not a phoney, copycat, ,wanna be.  You may accept this challange with the sure knowledge that soon you will be the proud owner of a Jim Dunlap Cry Baby.  Ever make a girl come from playing a solo?  Don’t even bother to respond if you haven’t.

Response:

Question:

This is an off topic post!  Spamming shows bad manners.

I e-mailed the originator a similar view the first time. IMHO it is counter-productive because many of his potential clients will now have him in their kill-fill. To whack out a similar message a week later to the same huge list of newsgroups shows remarkably poor marketing skills. Jock Mackirdy Business Advisory Services Independent Telecomms and Business Advice Luton UK

Response:

This is an off topic post!  Spamming shows bad manners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For local, personal accounting and taxation services at a competitive price visit: AIMS Partnership Plc. (http://www.aims.co.uk/)

Response: