Question:

Hi, Something cool happened today and I thought I’d share it with everyone. I won an item about 10 days ago and hadn’t paid for it yet, imagine my surprise when it was delivered this morning! And the sellers left me positive feedback!! It’s all good. Barry

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=barry…

Response:

Hi, Something cool happened today and I thought I’d share it with everyone. I won an item about 10 days ago and hadn’t paid for it yet, imagine my surprise when it was delivered this morning! And the sellers left me positive feedback!! It’s all good. Barry

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=barry… Also going under the name as Bazza

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a baked potato. You have about three seconds to live. Personally, I think it’s worth getting a

Question:

I am currently seeking to partner with accountants who provide financial audits for public corporations. I am with Director’s Desk Corporate Governance Services, a leading technology solutions provider that helps corporate boards: 1. Meet Sarbanes-Oxley compliance requirements. 2. Achieve better enterprise risk management (including lower personal liability for directors). 3. Reduce expenses by streamlining manual board processes. As an auditor, our product can be of tremendous value to you and your clients by helping you to communicate with the company, at the board of directors level, in a way that is convenient and compliant with Sarbanes-Oxley and other legislation. Please read our published white papers on Sarbanes-Oxley compliance to discover why companies are turning to Director’s Desk before the 11/15/2004 compliance deadline. Currently, many boards are not compliant with Sections 802/1102 of Sarbanes-Oxley, but have not yet been made aware of the risk. Our SOX 802/1102 white paper describes this issue in great detail. After reading through our solutions, if you are interested in adding our product to your solutions kit, please contact us to discuss the opportunity. We look forward to working with you! To learn more, visit http://www.directorsdesk.com Thank you, Bret Beresford-Wood, CEO Director’s Desk Corporate Governance Services Toll-Free: 866-895-DESK Office: 509-747-6601 Online at http://www.directorsdesk.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently seeking to partner with accountants who provide financial audits for public corporations. I am with Director’s Desk Corporate Governance Services, a leading technology solutions provider that helps corporate boards: 1. Meet Sarbanes-Oxley compliance requirements. 2. Achieve better enterprise risk management (including lower personal liability for directors). 3. Reduce expenses by streamlining manual board processes. As an auditor, our product can be of tremendous value to you and your clients by helping you to communicate with the company, at the board of directors level, in a way that is convenient and compliant with Sarbanes-Oxley and other legislation. Please read our published white papers on Sarbanes-Oxley compliance to discover why companies are turning to Director’s Desk before the 11/15/2004 compliance deadline. Currently, many boards are not compliant with Sections 802/1102 of Sarbanes-Oxley, but have not yet been made aware of the risk. Our SOX 802/1102 white paper describes this issue in great detail. After reading through our solutions, if you are interested in adding our product to your solutions kit, please contact us to discuss the opportunity. We look forward to working with you! To learn more, visit http://www.directorsdesk.com Thank you, Bret Beresford-Wood, CEO Director’s Desk Corporate Governance Services Toll-Free: 866-895-DESK Office: 509-747-6601 Online at http://www.directorsdesk.com

are you an accountant?     if you go google "Bret Beresford-Wood" you get a Gonzaga MBA promoting  "How to Repair your credit in 59 minutes" is this the same person?

Response:

Question:

Any thoughts as to why Approach Plates do not list the time for an approach speed of 75 KIAS?

Because it’s hard to land when you’ve got a Dash 8 embedded in your backside? — … industry giant Microsoft Corporation… a company that has become successful without resorting to software testing…               — Unknown, rec.humor.funny

Response:

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed.

A slow ILS approach speed won’t cut it when landing at Boston’s Logan.   Granted I have only landed there four times in a C172S, but three of the times we were IMC to just above DH.  In every case ATC wanted us very fast due to the long line of airliners behind us. I do not think I am a skilled pilot yet, but I am able to slow the C172 down quickly enough to simulate braking pretty hard in an automobile; power to idle, raise nose slightly, one notch of flaps, at 85 dump remaining flaps.  Knowing that the runway is over 10,000 feet certainly adds comfort when flying the fast approach. — Peter —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

I do not think I am a skilled pilot yet, but I am able to slow the C172 down quickly enough to simulate braking pretty hard in an automobile; power to idle, raise nose slightly, one notch of flaps, at 85 dump remaining flaps.  Knowing that the runway is over 10,000 feet certainly adds comfort when flying the fast approach.

Same problem with Dulles.   Not only is there 11,000+ fee of runway, but even if you plant 500 feet passed fixed distance marker, you’ve still got 3000 feet before the first taxiway you can turn off on.

Response:

Since you have no choice about altitude during an ILS approach, adding kinetic energy is the only way to increase your glide range.

That’s not really true.  You can’t go below the GS, but nothing says you can’t fly the entire approach above the GS.  There’s nothing illegal or inherently unsafe about flying the ILS 1 or 2 dots high.  You wouldn’t want to do it in a jet, but in a spam can it’s perfectly reasonable.

Response:

A slow ILS approach speed won’t cut it when landing at Boston’s Logan.   Granted I have only landed there four times in a C172S, but three of the times we were IMC to just above DH.  In every case ATC wanted us very fast due to the long line of airliners behind us. The Bonanza will make that easy.  Did you make the decision about going in on it, yet?

Still talking with the owner on how best to structure the partnership.   There are quite a few tax implications that we are working on with our accountants.  In fact, he is with his accountant today to come up with his strategy. Assuming this owner does not throw out some unreasonable number to buy in, I am probably going to make the move.   It really is a nice aircraft and I look forward to the challenge of advancing to a high-performance, complex aircraft. — Peter —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

CJ I’ve got to respectfully disagree with you. I teach my instrument students to fly approaches at 100 KIAS for most single-engine bug-smashers because it’s a lot easier to stay on course when going faster, the cross wind has less effect, you don’t hold up traffic as much and, for any ILS equipped runway, you’ve got far more runway available than you need, even if you up the speed to 120 KIAS. On the other hand, having looked at too many accidents where the pilots broke out at 200-300 feet up and started making changes to the airplane configuration right then, including reducing power, and wound up sticking the airplane into the approach lights (often in rain at night where the refraction through the rain on the windshield caused them to think they were high, despite having glideslope info on the panel) I also empahsize that the pilot should not change ANYTHING until crossing the runway threshold.  The power setting, configuration and speed were working just fine to stay on glide slope all the way down, why change anything just because you are transitioning to visual.  In fact, that’s the worst possible time to pull the power or add flaps or what have you, as, if the wx is really crappy, you may very well fly into a bit of scud that is below 200 feet and have to make a go around…it’s best to still have that energey so you can zoom climb away from the ground.  Plus, at 200 feet AGL, you aren’t to the runway, yet.  So, leave everything as it is and take some time to look around…you’ve got lots of time, you are only descending at roughly 500-600 fpm at 100 KIAS, you aren’t to the runway yet, so let yourself figure out what’s going on while keeping power and speed the same for a while.  If you leave well enough alone, you cross the threshold at slightly over 50 feet AGL.  Then, smoothly close the throttle, roll in some nose up trip to hold your altitude right there, above ground effect, when the airplane decelerates into the white arc, select full flaps, trim as needed, then when it decelerates to normal speed for final, descend, flare and land.  Yes, you’ll use about 3,000 feet of runway.  Big deal.  That’s not the risky part of the ILS.  The risky part is crashing short of the runway, if the accident reports are to be believed. All the best, Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We get foggy here at Tacoma Narrows this time of year (which is the reason I post more on these groups in the winter than in the summer). One thing we see a lot of is guys who fly the ILS too fast. I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the soup. You just want to hold your breath when you hear somebody coming down the ILS. You don’t see him, but you hear the engine start to roar as he begins his missed approach. Then he suddenly breaks through and tries to land anyway. Sometimes they make it, probably touching down on the last half of the runway, and sometimes they don’t, having to make a go around back up into the soup, only now the missed approach is all messed up, too. Two lessons here: 1) If the field is really at minimums, you have 200 feet to slow down to landing speed. That is not much time. Better you should be ready to land before you break out. 2) If you decide to go missed, then go missed. Don’t change your mind just because you got a glimpse of the runway as you were flying overhead.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like CJ mentioned, a fast approach speed makes it somewhat difficult to transition to the landing phase. However, I believe that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. – ATC likes it if you fly the approach faster – Reduces the exposure time in icing conditions. At this time of year, we can often climb above the clouds and remain there until the approach phase. A fast approach will minimize ice accretion during approach. – A faster approach speed makes it possible to adjust for altitude excursions by using elevator alone and without compromising too much airspeed. At slower airspeeds you will have to make power adjustments. For example, at 90 knots you will lose about 9 knots in order to climb 100 ft. At 60 knots you will lose 18 knots to climb 100 ft.

Another advantage of a faster approach speed is that it lets you glide further in the event of engine failure.  (You’d still want to slow down to best glide speed, but you’d gain more altitude in the process.)  Since you have no choice about altitude during an ILS approach, adding kinetic energy is the only way to increase your glide range. –Gary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | you’ve got 8000 feet, you’ve got plenty of room for it.  And ATC | appreciates a fast approach when they’ve got a 767 on your tail. | | Not many 767s at TIW! Seriously, I have no problem with accommodating ATC when it can be done safely, but neither am I going to do their job for them when they screw up. It is always fun to watch somebody who landed too fast and too long then try to turn off at the first exit just because the tower asked him to, especially when it was probably the tower that asked him to keep his speed up when he was on final. They come whipping around there, side loading the gear and nearly careening off into the infield, tires smoking and screeching. But what the heck, it’s only a rental.

Like CJ mentioned, a fast approach speed makes it somewhat difficult to transition to the landing phase. However, I believe that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. – ATC likes it if you fly the approach faster – Reduces the exposure time in icing conditions. At this time of year, we can often climb above the clouds and remain there until the approach phase. A fast approach will minimize ice accretion during approach. – A faster approach speed makes it possible to adjust for altitude excursions by using elevator alone and without compromising too much airspeed. At slower airspeeds you will have to make power adjustments. For example, at 90 knots you will lose about 9 knots in order to climb 100 ft. At 60 knots you will lose 18 knots to climb 100 ft. Finally, 90 kts to 60 kts in a draggy airplane like a skyhawk is not a big problem. You can do that by pulling power to idle and not even use any flaps. However, in a slippery airplane like a Mooney that may be a problem. But such airplanes tend to have high approach speeds anyway, so slowing down much below 90 may not be an option.

Response:

Ron’s thoughts are very realistic and deal with real world scenearios. All of my instrument students get the experience of flying 140 KT ILS speeds in my skyhawk at the later points of their training.  Of course, I don’t advocate that kind of speed for everyday use, but it is absolutely no problem getting it stopped on a 5000′ runway.  There are only a few ILS’s on shorter runways. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the soup. I would respectfully disagree, although I haven’t flown a Skyhawk in years. However, my Mooney is also an a/c known for being "slippery" with a Vso of 49 kts, a bit faster than the Skyhawk.  However, for an approach to minimums, especially at an airport with "heavy iron", I would view my limiting speed to be the gear down speed of 105 Kts.  (And if I had a newer Mooney, it would be even faster). I think an instrument rated pilot should have had the necessary training so that he can fly the approach at the higher speeds desireable to blend in with faster traffic — and not have to worry about "balloning back up into the soup".  Also, most ILS’s are into runways of at least 4,000′ lengths, so you don’t need to be at 1.2 Vso coming over the threshold (although it is nice to touch down in the touchdown zone). Don’t forget, at a DA of 200′ you will still be about 1/2 mile from the runway.  Given that it’s a 4,000′ or longer runway, you should be able to touchdown in the first 1/2 and not run off the far end. In my Mooney, I have no particular problem with, after reaching a DA of 200′ and making the decision to land, lowering the additional two notches of flaps and slowing speed by the runway threshold (60-65 KIAS — the slower speed if there is an operational advantage). I will say, however, that with a DA of 100′, I do not drop the last two notches of flaps, and I will use about 4,000′ of runway if I am using a 105 kt approach speed.  But at airports where that may occur, that distance is usually less than 60% of the total runway length — again, plenty of room. So I think that instrument rated pilots who, after all, are legal to fly into any airport, should have the training and experience to deal with the faster approach speeds.  It really is not that difficult once one starts to practice. My most difficult approach, in terms of speed control, came with a request from PWM approach to "maintain present speed until the (outer) marker".  At the time, my speed was 125 Kts; I was under the hood; and there was an FAA examiner in the right seat.  My gear down speed is 105 kts, flaps 109 kts, and this approach was being done to a 100′ DA with a landing planned.  So it was a matter of coming down, slowing down, and reconfiguring on the way down.  (And yes, I discussed with the examiner the fact that I had not done something like this before; that I wanted to see how it would work out; and that if it were the first time doing this procedure in real IMC, my response would have been "unable"). So I think these instrument pilots should be trained and practiced in faster approaches. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Response:

I think an instrument rated pilot should have had the necessary training so that he can fly the approach at the higher speeds desireable to blend in with faster traffic — and not have to worry about "balloning back up into the soup".  Also, most ILS’s are into runways of at least 4,000′ lengths, so you don’t need to be at 1.2 Vso coming over the threshold (although it is nice to touch down in the touchdown zone).

I agree.  My American instruction was usually to fly the glide slope with one notch of flaps at about 90kts (PA28), and then do whatever was necessary to land the plane.  In the UK, one instructor made me fly the ILS 10 kts faster and with no flaps (easier to perform a missed if you don’t have to clean up), and land more often than not flapless – which we have all been trained to do, and is rarely a problem on the usual 4000′+ runway. — John H. Kay

Response:

you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the

soup. What speed do you use to fly the ILS if asked to "keep your speed up"? ILS runways are usually 5,000 feet or longer.  You could dissipate speed over the runway. I suspect if you cross the runway threshold right on the glideslope at 90 knots in a Skyhawk with a 5,000 foot runway, there is no way you could overrun the runway if you tried. — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

| you’ve got 8000 feet, you’ve got plenty of room for it.  And ATC | appreciates a fast approach when they’ve got a 767 on your tail. | | Not many 767s at TIW! Seriously, I have no problem with accommodating ATC when it can be done safely, but neither am I going to do their job for them when they screw up.

Not always the case.  Here at SJC when ATC asks: "Say best forward speed?" they’re saying "Look Hilton, we’ve got a bunch of 737s, 757s, 777s, a few DC-10s etc coming down the approach.  You gimme 120, I can get you in within 5 minutes.  You gimme 90, maintain VFR, hold where you are, expect your clearance sometime in the future." Hilton

Response:

Any thoughts as to why Approach Plates do not list the time for an approach speed of 75 KIAS?

Response:

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the soup.

I would respectfully disagree, although I haven’t flown a Skyhawk in years. However, my Mooney is also an a/c known for being "slippery" with a Vso of 49 kts, a bit faster than the Skyhawk.  However, for an approach to minimums, especially at an airport with "heavy iron", I would view my limiting speed to be the gear down speed of 105 Kts.  (And if I had a newer Mooney, it would be even faster). I think an instrument rated pilot should have had the necessary training so that he can fly the approach at the higher speeds desireable to blend in with faster traffic — and not have to worry about "balloning back up into the soup".  Also, most ILS’s are into runways of at least 4,000′ lengths, so you don’t need to be at 1.2 Vso coming over the threshold (although it is nice to touch down in the touchdown zone). Don’t forget, at a DA of 200′ you will still be about 1/2 mile from the runway.  Given that it’s a 4,000′ or longer runway, you should be able to touchdown in the first 1/2 and not run off the far end. In my Mooney, I have no particular problem with, after reaching a DA of 200′ and making the decision to land, lowering the additional two notches of flaps and slowing speed by the runway threshold (60-65 KIAS — the slower speed if there is an operational advantage). I will say, however, that with a DA of 100′, I do not drop the last two notches of flaps, and I will use about 4,000′ of runway if I am using a 105 kt approach speed.  But at airports where that may occur, that distance is usually less than 60% of the total runway length — again, plenty of room. So I think that instrument rated pilots who, after all, are legal to fly into any airport, should have the training and experience to deal with the faster approach speeds.  It really is not that difficult once one starts to practice. My most difficult approach, in terms of speed control, came with a request from PWM approach to "maintain present speed until the (outer) marker".  At the time, my speed was 125 Kts; I was under the hood; and there was an FAA examiner in the right seat.  My gear down speed is 105 kts, flaps 109 kts, and this approach was being done to a 100′ DA with a landing planned.  So it was a matter of coming down, slowing down, and reconfiguring on the way down.  (And yes, I discussed with the examiner the fact that I had not done something like this before; that I wanted to see how it would work out; and that if it were the first time doing this procedure in real IMC, my response would have been "unable"). So I think these instrument pilots should be trained and practiced in faster approaches. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Response:

| I am not sure I understand. Slowing from 90 kts to landing from 200 feet | should not be a problem for a moderately skilled pilot on an average sized | ILS runway (4000 ft or more). | | That is what one would expect from an instrument rated pilot, no? You would expect that, but observation teaches otherwise. Reaction time

Point taken.

Response:

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough

You really want people flying differently in tough weather conditions? You’re better off flying what you practiced.  If you can’t fly a 100kt ILS and land after breaking out at 200′ you should either practice that or fly all of your approaches at 90kt. If you pull power and put in 10 degrees of flaps (haven’t the last 30 years or so worth of 172 allowed the first 10 degrees at like 110kts?) you’ll be down to full flap speed in a matter of seconds and after that you can drop like a brick if you want. — Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/

Response:

| | 1) If the field is really at minimums, you have 200 feet to slow down to | landing speed. That is not much time. Better you should be ready to land | before you break out. | | Nope — not unless you are flying a Cat III certified airplane. | | You should be ready to transition to land AFTER you break out!  A C172 at 90 | knots is only descending at 400-500 FPM.  At 200′ AGL, you have 20-30 seconds | until touchdown, even if you don’t flare at all!  You can do a lot of | decelerating, reconfiguring, and flaring in 20 seconds.  Since the only | reconfiguring you should have to do, if any, is final flaps, you have plenty of | time! Well, one would think so, and I don’t have any problem with it, but I sure see a lot of pilots that just can’t seem to handle it. But I am a CFII who flies and demonstrates these approaches constantly. I think my point is that pilots who do not fly as frequently should consider a different ‘approach,’ so to speak. AARP encourages older drivers to take things a little slower — to drive within their skill level. Perhaps rusty pilots should do the same.

Response:

| you’ve got 8000 feet, you’ve got plenty of room for it.  And ATC | appreciates a fast approach when they’ve got a 767 on your tail. | | Not many 767s at TIW! Seriously, I have no problem with accommodating ATC when it can be done safely, but neither am I going to do their job for them when they screw up. It is always fun to watch somebody who landed too fast and too long then try to turn off at the first exit just because the tower asked him to, especially when it was probably the tower that asked him to keep his speed up when he was on final. They come whipping around there, side loading the gear and nearly careening off into the infield, tires smoking and screeching. But what the heck, it’s only a rental.

Response:

You can do a lot of decelerating, reconfiguring, and flaring in 20 seconds.  Since the only reconfiguring you should have to do, if any, is final flaps, you have plenty of time!

Pulling the power back to idle might be nice too

Response:

| | | I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is | well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet | overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can | land | at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but | you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 | feet | of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the | soup. | | I am not sure I understand. Slowing from 90 kts to landing from 200 feet | should not be a problem for a moderately skilled pilot on an average sized | ILS runway (4000 ft or more). | | That is what one would expect from an instrument rated pilot, no? You would expect that, but observation teaches otherwise. Reaction time after breaking out of the clouds may be a factor. There is always a little disorientation. The newer 172s are surprisingly slippery, especially if you are not using any flaps. Add to that a pilot that may not be all that current and I think you have trouble.

Response:

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the soup.

I think you may need to practice your ILS approaches, especially the transition to visual and landing.  The transition to visual is very difficult — probably moreso than flying the needles. Try flying ILS approaches in full VMC conditions — not even a hood — but with a safety pilot or instructor aboard.  Let the outside stuff distract you from your instrument scan, and force yourself to look back inside.  Practice the transition to visual at 200′, including the power reduction, decel, flaps (if you use more to land than you use in the approach), and flare.  It is NOT the same as your normal VFR landing, and it DOES require specific practice. When you get proficient, only then should you attempt to fly when the weather is anywhere near minimums. Two lessons here: 1) If the field is really at minimums, you have 200 feet to slow down to landing speed. That is not much time. Better you should be ready to land before you break out.

Nope — not unless you are flying a Cat III certified airplane. You should be ready to transition to land AFTER you break out!  A C172 at 90 knots is only descending at 400-500 FPM.  At 200′ AGL, you have 20-30 seconds until touchdown, even if you don’t flare at all!  You can do a lot of decelerating, reconfiguring, and flaring in 20 seconds.  Since the only reconfiguring you should have to do, if any, is final flaps, you have plenty of time! 2) If you decide to go missed, then go missed. Don’t change your mind just because you got a glimpse of the runway as you were flying overhead.

That is good advice.

Response:

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the

soup. I am not sure I understand. Slowing from 90 kts to landing from 200 feet should not be a problem for a moderately skilled pilot on an average sized ILS runway (4000 ft or more). That is what one would expect from an instrument rated pilot, no?

Response:

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the soup.

I regularly shoot approaches at 110 knots in the Archer or 120 knots in the Dakota, and don’t touch the throttle until the flare.  Granted, I haven’t done it to minimums in actual, but I’ve done it under the hood, and I don’t gain any altitude.  Sure you float down the runway, but if you’ve got 8000 feet, you’ve got plenty of room for it.  And ATC appreciates a fast approach when they’ve got a 767 on your tail. — I didn’t need to sabotage anything.  Not being around to say "No that won’t work" or "you can’t do it that way" is more than enough damage. (Ego problem?  It’s not a problem.) — Graham Reed, on job endings

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We get foggy here at Tacoma Narrows this time of year (which is the reason I post more on these groups in the winter than in the summer). One thing we see a lot of is guys who fly the ILS too fast. I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the soup.

otoh – I can slow my cherokee 140 down from 90 knots at the middle marker to a good landing speed at the GIP.  I know I can do it because that’s the way I’ve done every single ILS approach and that was the way I was taught from day one. ymmv — Bob Noel

Response:

We get foggy here at Tacoma Narrows this time of year (which is the reason I post more on these groups in the winter than in the summer). One thing we see a lot of is guys who fly the ILS too fast. I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land at that speed. You don’t need to configure for a short field landing, but you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet of altitude, especially if you can’t risk ballooning back up into the soup. You just want to hold your breath when you hear somebody coming down the ILS. You don’t see him, but you hear the engine start to roar as he begins his missed approach. Then he suddenly breaks through and tries to land anyway. Sometimes they make it, probably touching down on the last half of the runway, and sometimes they don’t, having to make a go around back up into the soup, only now the missed approach is all messed up, too. Two lessons here: 1) If the field is really at minimums, you have 200 feet to slow down to landing speed. That is not much time. Better you should be ready to land before you break out. 2) If you decide to go missed, then go missed. Don’t change your mind just because you got a glimpse of the runway as you were flying overhead. — Christopher J. Campbell World Famous Flight Instructor Port Orchard, WA If you go around beating the Bush, don’t complain if you rile the animals.

Response:

Question:

What’s going on? Who is "ignoring" Ilena while he takes her posts and reposts them without her url? Who is Andy Langer, the head of this Posse. www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm Now that this is clear, you can feel free at any time to take your own advice. – Andrew Langer

LOL Andy … seems that the intimidator here is you … you seem to be under some misguided belief that you’re the "Sheriff" of asbi … and you’ve got your Posse in tow to intimidate away those who aren’t welcome in your Terrortory.  You’ve got former Inamed President  You’ve got second generation Dow Corning  Now you’ve got Barrett Publicist, (Quackwatch, Healthfrauds) Probert … Ritalin Pusher & Med Device flack, failed attorney Probert …  You’ve got Quackwatch’s Posse you’re signed onto … www.ratbags.com/posse/whoarewe.htm and you … long,long time CEI, junkscience.com,heritage.org,aei.org, cato and many other related organizations flack … It’s your Corporitazation of Usenet takeover attempt …    and failure. (of course you won’t know any of my opinions of your opinions because you are "ignoring" me … so much for: "One has no right to intimidate someone else." – Andrew Langer Newsgroups: alt.politics.liberalism, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sci.environment, alt.politics.libertarian, alt.philosophy.objectivism http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:langrrr%40aol.com+intimidate… Post

Response:

Rod, I would donatre my services as an investigator full time to help you find a clue, but, alas, I cannot teach you how to use it, thus, I would be wasting my time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark, It would be nice for the whole world to see you enact a New Years resolution of staying out of the Girl’s room for 2004. Perhaps you could donate your time to another worthwhile cause like helping out the Salvation Army or something similar. Cheers for 2004, Rod. in

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry I have Mark Probert killfilled. For some strange reason you chose to post this thread on MHA. Wrong. I chose to post it to MHA To cause trouble. Nope. Not at all. To P R E V E N T trouble. but you, as I expected, jumped right in and caused some. . I do not regularly read asbi, and wanted to sign on to the New Years Resolution. I felt that I should post it to all relevant newsgroups. The ONLY relevant newsgroup was THIS ONE!! Nope. The resolution concerned a person who posts in multiple groups. Get over your resentments and your insane drive to argue, belittle and personally trash. You do not even know AloysiousX, I know you and I know you use your son’s aol account. I also know all the fake names you have used. Such as? That’s why you are killfiled on MHA. Wrong. I am not killfiled anywhere. As far as i know, AOL cannot slectively killfile by newsgroup. Since you are responding to me directly in asbi, you are a liar. As a matter of fact, I see you lied there just today. You would not know the truth if you had it in a rectal cleanser, and if you accidentally did know it, you could not handle it. Like, I said, get over it. Get a clue.

Response:

I am honoring my New Years Resolution and past statements,

that’s ridiculous … you are using Sock Puppets and fooling no one but the other fools and shills … www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#BarrettsParrot www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

Response:

<< I am honoring my New Years Resolution and past statements, so, make your cheap shots. They only go to show your lack of character, adn, I am positive you have none.   The cow died, we don’t need your bull any more. "If you’re gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

Response:

Hi Mark (Marla) Well we all know that you cannot teach what you do not know. So thanks for your personal update on your knowledge bank. Facts are Mark, you do spend your time in the "Girls Room" but your testical was showing and you got booted. Nice one Marla. Go teach the world on how good you are about investigations and let them know how good you are about being a failed lawyer.

I am honoring my New Years Resolution and past statements, so, make your cheap shots. They only go to show your lack of character, adn, I am positive you have none.

Response:

Hi Mark (Marla) Well we all know that you cannot teach what you do not know. So thanks for your personal update on your knowledge bank. Facts are Mark, you do spend your time in the "Girls Room" but your testical was showing and you got booted. Nice one Marla. Go teach the world on how good you are about investigations and let them know how good you are about being a failed lawyer. Cheers, Rod. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rod, I would donatre my services as an investigator full time to help you find a clue, but, alas, I cannot teach you how to use it, thus, I would be wasting my time. Mark, It would be nice for the whole world to see you enact a New Years resolution of staying out of the Girl’s room for 2004. Perhaps you could donate your time to another worthwhile cause like helping out the Salvation Army or something similar. Cheers for 2004, Rod. in Sorry I have Mark Probert killfilled. For some strange reason you chose to post this thread on MHA. Wrong. I chose to post it to MHA To cause trouble. Nope. Not at all. To P R E V E N T trouble. but you, as I expected, jumped right in and caused some. . I do not regularly read asbi, and wanted to sign on to the New Years Resolution. I felt that I should post it to all relevant newsgroups. The ONLY relevant newsgroup was THIS ONE!! Nope. The resolution concerned a person who posts in multiple groups. Get over your resentments and your insane drive to argue, belittle and personally trash. You do not even know AloysiousX, I know you and I know you use your son’s aol account. I also know all the fake names you have used. Such as? That’s why you are killfiled on MHA. Wrong. I am not killfiled anywhere. As far as i know, AOL cannot slectively killfile by newsgroup. Since you are responding to me directly in asbi, you are a liar. As a matter of fact, I see you lied there just today. You would not know the truth if you had it in a rectal cleanser, and if you accidentally did know it, you could not handle it. Like, I said, get over it. Get a clue.

Response:

<< Hi Debbee. Bye Debbee. Sorry that Santa did not leave you a clue. Yeah he did, the clue he left was all about YOU…..you obviously still have too much time on your hands, and obviously think more of yourself than the rest of us here… Probert….the cow died, we don’t need your bull anymore…:) "If you’re gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

Response:

Mark, It would be nice for the whole world to see you enact a New Years resolution of staying out of the Girl’s room for 2004. Perhaps you could donate your time to another worthwhile cause like helping out the Salvation Army or something similar. Cheers for 2004, Rod.

Wouldn’t that be great. The post was made at a-s-b-i, there was no reason to post it here, rather than stir up more trouble. Mark seems to be a very negative and frustrated person, who is on the computer all day calling names and telling lies. The debunker *gang* doesn’t give a damn, they all cover for each other. Jan Being truthful means speaking the truth and also saying things that reflect reality. Being truthful is one of the necessities of a human society, one of the virtues of human behaviour, and brings great benefits, whilst lying is one of the major elements of corruption in human society, and the cause of the destruction of social structure and ties, one of the most evil features of bad conduct, and causes widespread harm.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << Jan is an abuser/enabler who never misses an opportunity to take a pot shot at an enemy. And then there is Probert.  Who just rambles on and on, and on…..(what about, no one really knows for sure, except Probert himself). I came back to "visit", and check out the latest on the latest, and I see the same-o, same-o, being posted…. The problem with you *Probert*, methinks, is that you just so jealous  of Jan that you cannot stand it, …and you think you are *cool* because you *think* you are *winning* your own personal battle here…and the problem is…..you are just the same old *loser* you’ve always been…. If you don’t like alternative medicine…then, why do you hang out here so much?  Is it because the *big boys* won’t let you play on their

playground? Hi Debbee. Bye Debbee. Sorry that Santa did not leave you a clue.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Jan) writes: There is no problem there. No one single person over there is interested in any Resolution I fear Jan that you don’t want to acknowledge the problems some posters cause. Susan

LOL … Jan knows well the problems that posters like Probert and you cause … You’re the Queen … and he’s the King (and sometimes Queen Marla and Queen Sandy) … … of phoney aliases and cowardly attacks. www.humanticsfoundation.com/SS.html www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#ProbertTheCoward

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry I have Mark Probert killfilled. For some strange reason you chose to post this thread on MHA. Wrong. I chose to post it to MHA To cause trouble.

Nope. Not at all. To P R E V E N T trouble. but you, as I expected, jumped right in and caused some. . I do not regularly read asbi, and wanted to sign on to the New Years Resolution. I felt that I should post it to all relevant newsgroups. The ONLY relevant newsgroup was THIS ONE!!

Nope. The resolution concerned a person who posts in multiple groups. Get over your resentments and your insane drive to argue, belittle and personally trash. You do not even know AloysiousX, I know you and I know you use your son’s aol account. I also know all the fake names you have used.

Such as? That’s why you are killfiled on MHA.

Wrong. I am not killfiled anywhere. As far as i know, AOL cannot slectively killfile by newsgroup. Since you are responding to me directly in asbi, you are a liar. As a matter of fact, I see you lied there just today.

You would not know the truth if you had it in a rectal cleanser, and if you accidentally did know it, you could not handle it. Like, I said, get over it.

Get a clue.

Response:

Now that this is clear, you can feel free at any time to take your own advice. – Andrew Langer

LOL Andy … seems that the intimidator here is you … you seem to be under some misguided belief that you’re the "Sheriff" of asbi … and you’ve got your Posse in tow to intimidate away those who aren’t welcome in your Terrortory.  You’ve got former Inamed President  You’ve got second generation Dow Corning  Now you’ve got Barrett Publicist, (Quackwatch, Healthfrauds) Probert … Ritalin Pusher & Med Device flack, failed attorney Probert …  You’ve got Quackwatch’s Posse you’re signed onto … www.ratbags.com/posse/whoarewe.htm and you … long,long time CEI, junkscience.com,heritage.org,aei.org, cato and many other related organizations flack … It’s your Corporitazation of Usenet takeover attempt …    and failure. (of course you won’t know any of my opinions of your opinions because you are "ignoring" me … so much for: "One has no right to intimidate someone else." – Andrew Langer Newsgroups: alt.politics.liberalism, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sci.environment, alt.politics.libertarian, alt.philosophy.objectivism http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:langrrr%40aol.com+intimidate…

Response:

<< Jan is an abuser/enabler who never misses an opportunity to take a pot shot at an enemy. And then there is Probert.  Who just rambles on and on, and on…..(what about, no one really knows for sure, except Probert himself).   I came back to "visit", and check out the latest on the latest, and I see the same-o, same-o, being posted…. The problem with you *Probert*, methinks, is that you just so jealous  of Jan that you cannot stand it, …and you think you are *cool* because you *think* you are *winning* your own personal battle here…and the problem is…..you are just the same old *loser* you’ve always been…. If you don’t like alternative medicine…then, why do you hang out here so much?  Is it because the *big boys* won’t let you play on their playground?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just hopped over there to take a peep, seems my saying *Please kindly leave* turned into something it wasn’t. Some people certainly led a sad life. I’m curious, Jan:  what prompted you to "hop over" to a.s.b-i?  You haven’t posted there before, I don’t think. Moreover, what prompted you to jump into a thread which had nothing to do with you, nothing to do with issues you deal with, and in no way otherwise involved you, and say something?

Jan is an abuser/enabler who never misses an opportunity to take a pot shot at an enemy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#ProbertTheCoward You know something, Sistah Ilena, I’m not Mark Probert, Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure, I believe that. And I am the *king* of England.

You sure are not the Queen.

Response:

Mark, It would be nice for the whole world to see you enact a New Years resolution of staying out of the Girl’s room for 2004. Perhaps you could donate your time to another worthwhile cause like helping out the Salvation Army or something similar. Cheers for 2004, Rod. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry I have Mark Probert killfilled. For some strange reason you chose to post this thread on MHA. Wrong. I chose to post it to MHA To cause trouble. Nope. Not at all. To P R E V E N T trouble. but you, as I expected, jumped right in and caused some. . I do not regularly read asbi, and wanted to sign on to the New Years Resolution. I felt that I should post it to all relevant newsgroups. The ONLY relevant newsgroup was THIS ONE!! Nope. The resolution concerned a person who posts in multiple groups. Get over your resentments and your insane drive to argue, belittle and personally trash. You do not even know AloysiousX, I know you and I know you use your son’s aol account. I also know all the fake names you have used. Such as? That’s why you are killfiled on MHA. Wrong. I am not killfiled anywhere. As far as i know, AOL cannot slectively killfile by newsgroup. Since you are responding to me directly in asbi, you are a liar. As a matter of fact, I see you lied there just today. You would not know the truth if you had it in a rectal cleanser, and if you accidentally did know it, you could not handle it. Like, I said, get over it. Get a clue.

Response:

We have an admitted stalker here.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just hopped over there to take a peep, seems my saying *Please kindly leave* turned into something it wasn’t. Some people certainly led a sad life. I’m curious, Jan:  what prompted you to "hop over" to a.s.b-i?  You haven’t posted there before, I don’t think. Moreover, what prompted you to jump into a thread which had nothing to do with you, nothing to do with issues you deal with, and in no way otherwise involved you, and say something? – Andrew Langer Any posts by Andrew Langer are his own, written by him, for his own enjoyment (and the education of others).  Unless expressly stated, they represent his own views, and not those of any other individuals or entities.  He is not, nor has he ever been, paid to post here.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jan "The Provacateuse" … this one cracked me up! Andy’s arrogance has reached new depths … as well as his misusing this french word for "provoker." "Provacateuse" …  Junk Science$peak for daring to respond to a thread where Junk Science Flack Andy (Andrew M. Langer) was calling his troups together! Andy and Aloysisius/Marla/Probert have longed worked threads in tandem … especially when they are about me … (who Andy is "ignoring" of course and won’t even read this note if he is being honest)… After Andy and failed silicone manufacturer O’leary and Dow Corning Dave (his Daddy and he both have been on the silicone gravy train) and the "educated" so called "silicone support leaders" (Dow’s Networks as discussed in their memo from 1992, see below) www.humanticsfoundation.com/myrl.html#networks pledged their allegiance to ignore me … and Marla Probert distributed this further to other of his groups he fills with Quack$peak for Barrett etc. … and Jan dared to respond … Andy posted his verse below … apparently ignorant that he was the provoker … not Jan. Things in Quack / Junk Science Land … and those who are part of their Webring of Deception still believe they can control Usenet, it appears to me. Both Andy and Probert "reach out" to posters who don’t go with their "program" in their attempts to "educate" them … I just found a couple of messages from women telling me how after they posted here … Andy wrote them trying to "educate" them of how bad I am (LOL) … nice job he has! To read a great expose on PR Wars against Activists … such as they wage on me … please go to: www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#articles (Probert and Nana Nidiffer began their attacks after Quack Barrett and his Malicious Prosecutor Grell SLAPP sued me … the more they have lost … the more virulent their attacks. www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm For more on Probert and Langer’s years of warring against me for the Quack and Junk Science Team … www.humanticsfoundation.com/LangervsIlena.html In this one, Andy threatens to SLAPP sue me after one polite email to his wife after months of his personal harassment. www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm Probert is a publicist and widely distributes quack propaganda for Barrett, Polevoy and the others in Quack inc… www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#BarrettsParrot When Andy "provoked" this thread … I was curious to see their Plan of attack … I see it is to bully and aggress on any who dare to respond to their BS. Thanks Jan … brave soul you are!

I just hopped over there to take a peep, seems my saying *Please kindly leave* turned into something it wasn’t. Some people certainly led a sad life. I think I’l make a new thread that says BOO. That should bring out a few of the *gang* with sooooooooooooooo many things to say. LOL *;* Jan

Response:

I just hopped over there to take a peep, seems my saying *Please kindly leave* turned into something it wasn’t. Some people certainly led a sad life.

I’m curious, Jan:  what prompted you to "hop over" to a.s.b-i?  You haven’t posted there before, I don’t think. Moreover, what prompted you to jump into a thread which had nothing to do with you, nothing to do with issues you deal with, and in no way otherwise involved you, and say something? – Andrew Langer Any posts by Andrew Langer are his own, written by him, for his own enjoyment (and the education of others).  Unless expressly stated, they represent his own views, and not those of any other individuals or entities.  He is not, nor has he ever been, paid to post here.

Response:

Jan "The Provacateuse" … this one cracked me up! Andy’s arrogance has reached new depths … as well as his misusing this french word for "provoker." "Provacateuse" …  Junk Science$peak for daring to respond to a thread where Junk Science Flack Andy (Andrew M. Langer) was calling his troups together! Andy and Aloysisius/Marla/Probert have longed worked threads in tandem … especially when they are about me … (who Andy is "ignoring" of course and won’t even read this note if he is being honest)… After Andy and failed silicone manufacturer O’leary and Dow Corning Dave (his Daddy and he both have been on the silicone gravy train) and the "educated" so called "silicone support leaders" (Dow’s Networks as discussed in their memo from 1992, see below) www.humanticsfoundation.com/myrl.html#networks pledged their allegiance to ignore me … and Marla Probert distributed this further to other of his groups he fills with Quack$peak for Barrett etc. … and Jan dared to respond … Andy posted his verse below … apparently ignorant that he was the provoker … not Jan. Things in Quack / Junk Science Land … and those who are part of their Webring of Deception still believe they can control Usenet, it appears to me. Both Andy and Probert "reach out" to posters who don’t go with their "program" in their attempts to "educate" them … I just found a couple of messages from women telling me how after they posted here … Andy wrote them trying to "educate" them of how bad I am (LOL) … nice job he has! To read a great expose on PR Wars against Activists … such as they wage on me … please go to: www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#articles (Probert and Nana Nidiffer began their attacks after Quack Barrett and his Malicious Prosecutor Grell SLAPP sued me … the more they have lost … the more virulent their attacks. www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm For more on Probert and Langer’s years of warring against me for the Quack and Junk Science Team … www.humanticsfoundation.com/LangervsIlena.html In this one, Andy threatens to SLAPP sue me after one polite email to his wife after months of his personal harassment. www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm Probert is a publicist and widely distributes quack propaganda for Barrett, Polevoy and the others in Quack inc… www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#BarrettsParrot When Andy "provoked" this thread … I was curious to see their Plan of attack … I see it is to bully and aggress on any who dare to respond to their BS. Thanks Jan … brave soul you are! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then kindly leave. Why thank you for that wonderful bit of advice, Jan!  I don’t know why I never thought of that before. No, I have no reason to leave Usenet, nor alt.support.breast-implant.  Reality has brought us to this point, and I, for one, am happy to make a stand in this way. Now, you can either respect that and simply leave it alone, or you can continue to play provacateuse. Which will it be? – Andrew Langer Any posts by Andrew Langer are his own, written by him, for his own enjoyment (and the education of others).  Unless expressly stated, they represent his own views, and not those of any other individuals or entities.  He is not, nor has he ever been, paid to post here.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And this is how you like to burn bandwidth to help, and enlighten others? in View: Complete Thread (2 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant R E S O L V E D To the readers of Alt.support.breast-implant: Umm, this is misc health alternative. Mark just can’t help himself, always stirring up trouble.

Moi? You are one stupid jerk if you think I am the one who stirs up trouble. I avoid the bitch as much as I can, and you post her hysterical moronic websites, and then accuse me of stirring up trouble. Are you really this stupid or is it an act?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And this is how you like to burn bandwidth to help, and enlighten others? View: Complete Thread (2 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant R E S O L V E D To the readers of Alt.support.breast-implant:

Umm, this is misc health alternative. Mark just can’t help himself, always stirring up trouble. Jan

Response:

And this is how you like to burn bandwidth to help, and enlighten others?

It sure does beat spam for overpriced chemdically contaminated ginseng, doesn’t it?

Response:

View: Complete Thread (2 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant R E S O L V E D To the readers of Alt.support.breast-implant: Many of you have seen or read the numerous messages which go back and forth between Ilena Rosenthal, Director of the Humantics Foundation for Women, and persons she refers to as her "enemies".  We, the undersigned, are certain that like us, you have grown immensely tired of this back and forth. Therefore, as the turn of a New Year symbolizes new beginnings, we are offering the following New Year’s Resolution.  Commencing from the period immediately following the posting of this message, and through January 31, the undersigned posters pledge to completely ignore Ilena Rosenthal.  And we mean ignore in the same spirit offered by the great non-violent peace activists:  we will not not respond, no matter how provoked.  We will not provoke.  We will not acknowledge the presence or even existence of Ilena Rosenthal whatsoever on Usenet. Ms. Rosenthal herself has said, "Here’s another idea … ask those attacking me to leave me alone …have them stop telling me what to do, how to do it, and stop claiming I’m a cocaine addicted pandering whore …and I’ll have no need to defend myself. I’d happily continue posting articles, studies, links etc. as I’ve done for 8 years." (Message: Here is a perfect opportunity for her to finally make that promise real. On February 1, the success of this will be assessed, and a thorough and honest accounting will be offered in the form of a brief summary report.  At that time, it is up to the signatories to this resolution to decide for themselves whether or not their participation ought to be continued. One note – this pledge does not mean that the signatories refrain from posting to Usenet, or even from a.s.b-i.  It means, simply, that for the period of this point through January 31, it will be as though Ilena Rosenthal does not exist to them.  They are free to post anything else, so long as it does not respond to, refer to, or in any way acknowledge Ilena Rosenthal, the Humantics Foundation, or any directly associated entities. Thank you for your understanding of this matter.  We would ask that any non-signatories not inflame the rhetoric themselves, and if you must write on this subject that it be in a moderating and reminding capacity. Our best wishes for a happy, prosperous, productive, and peaceful New Year. Any of those not listed who are interested in participating are free to add their names at the bottom, so long as they recognize the responsibility such signing carries with it.  We do not want anyone joining with us who cannot exercise the self-control necessary to engage in this civil action. Sincerely, Andrew M. Langer Coleah Penley-Ayers Martha Murdock Myrl Jeffcoat Robert Moore Dr. Patrick O’Leary Karen S. Lawrence Suan Schaezler I made this resolution severalyears ago. Unfortunately, I am still the victim of her attacks as she sees me everywhere anyone posts from AOL. I have absolutely no desire to deal with this woman, but, alas, she will not leave me alone.

Response:

Question:

Anyway, just a little rant there (may they rot in h*ll).

Al Capone said that, shortly after the St Valentines Massacre.  (To a couple of his closest associates, who up and decided THEY wanted to "take over his business").   They paid *dearly* for that.

Response:

bongbong said for all posterity… After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

As far as I’m concerned you’re doing okay.  I’m more than a bit older and I’m on a path that will produce a nice negative net worth at the rate things are going.  My career has almost completely died, I owe alimony because my ex decided to chase men, my only major relationship since my divorce didn’t quite work out, I’m rapidly depleting any retirement money I killed myself making years ago, and I have a son to take care of and put through college. Honestly, things could be a lot worse. It’s just how you view things that matters. Casey Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

Response:

After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

For me it was basically a "leap of faith".  I left the home, most of the assets, etc. with the ex with the agreement that he would take care of the kids.  I was 40.  I had family that stepped in and helped me out financially when i kinda stumbled, although i didn’t ask for it.   You just do the best you can, and pray a lot.

Response:

Since you asked, yes, there are alot of people, in the U.S., who are far worse off then you. In fact, it sounds like you are doing pretty well.   sorry for the cold-ish response but, alot of people have nothing after their divorce. just to let you know, i’m from a broken home, in fact, that is why I am here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

Response:

After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

The best way to do OK financially is to not remarry and live a modest life, below what you could afford. Just like diet, there are no magic easy answers. Spend less, save more, take time to think about the best place to put your money, read. i

Response:

After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

I just realized that I used Enron accounting to figure my net worth. I did not take into consideration my home mortgage.  I really meant to say my assets are about $50k..  meaning, if I sold my house right now, the proceeds from the sale plus what I have in my 401k etc would come out to about $50k. So, I’m interested in hearing opinions with the above corrected info. thanks to all who have replied thus far..

Response:

Reply #2… No matter how long its been since a divorce (3.5 yrs), or how far one moves on into a new life (after remarriage), your former marriage will pop up from time to time, like an internet ad, triggered by a memory fragment, question from a friend, food-item, visit to a place, or a movie… just about anything can do it. In my case, its more than that.  I’m handling a probate matter for a former sister-in-law and I still do tax returns for my former father and mother in law.  I may be divorced from my ex, but apparently not her family.  [R]

Wow, they trust you with pretty private stuff!!! i – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t mean to be nosy, but I’m curious why a newlywed would be reading this NG..   Feel free to ignore if its too personal, I’ve been known to step on toes in the past.

Response:

Mr. Bong:  I was divorced, after an 18-yr. marriage, in 1999.  I’ve been posting to this group since January 2000.  My story is that, my ex became bored with her life, started hanging with a guy at the flight school, partying with 20-something friends, and clubbing. We did about 6 months of counseling, but I still got the I-want-out, its-over speech. I went through the normal grief and trauma many "dumpees" suffer. While I no longer suffer from the pain, angst and grief that many here still do, I hang out here to support fellow travelers on this dark road. If you want to know more about any poster, check out the website: www.altsupportdivorce.org        [Roger] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t mean to be nosy, but I’m curious why a newlywed would be reading this NG..   Feel free to ignore if its too personal, I’ve been known to step on toes in the past.

Response:

Reply #2… No matter how long its been since a divorce (3.5 yrs), or how far one moves on into a new life (after remarriage), your former marriage will pop up from time to time, like an internet ad, triggered by a memory fragment, question from a friend, food-item, visit to a place, or a movie… just about anything can do it. In my case, its more than that.  I’m handling a probate matter for a former sister-in-law and I still do tax returns for my former father and mother in law.  I may be divorced from my ex, but apparently not her family.  [R] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t mean to be nosy, but I’m curious why a newlywed would be reading this NG..   Feel free to ignore if its too personal, I’ve been known to step on toes in the past.

Response:

I, myself, have a fairly decent income and have made some sizeable investments, but then last year, I remarried and my wife new has some significant debts.  This caused us to refinance the house and for me to allocate a lot of my disposable income to her debts… So no, I’m not altogether pleased with where I’m at financially either, but what the hell, its only money.  Just try to adapt to your current situation.

I don’t mean to be nosy, but I’m curious why a newlywed would be reading this NG..   Feel free to ignore if its too personal, I’ve been known to step on toes in the past.

Response:

<snip  In a way yes you’re write, [right?] I was relatively sloppy when I threw together that number (its just an estimate, could be off by plus or minus $10k, but that wouldnt really have made much difference in my original question or the responses to it.  So yes, I posted kind of spontaneously and hastily.

I, myself, have a fairly decent income and have made some sizeable investments, but then last year, I remarried and my wife new has some significant debts.  This caused us to refinance the house and for me to allocate a lot of my disposable income to her debts… So no, I’m not altogether pleased with where I’m at financially either, but what the hell, its only money.  Just try to adapt to your current situation. IMHO, if you can live within your means, have a roof over your head, food in the kitchen, and clothes on your back, then you’re doing okay and heck of a lot better than many… What I said to begin with. [Roger]

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All fine points, but I dont quite understand what you mean by the following: The point is bongbong, that you should be much more diligent in counting your own money properly. I mistakenly used the term net worth, but I corrected that by pointing out that I do understand the difference.  I’m not an accounting person, therefore subject to using the wrong terms now and then.  But to me thats different than not understanding the difference. I did not mean to try to offend you or anything. I did get an impression that you were relatively sloppy in counting how much you are worth. Anyway, my message is not that you are a bad person in any way, but that you have to be diligent, save money etc.

Dont get me wrong, I wasnt offended at all.  Just curious what you meant.  In a way yes you’re write, I was relatively sloppy when I threw together that number (its just an estimate, could be off by plus or minus $10k, but that wouldnt really have made much difference in my original question or the responses to it.  So yes, I posted kind of spontaneously and hastily..

Response:

All fine points, but I dont quite understand what you mean by the following: The point is bongbong, that you should be much more diligent in counting your own money properly. I mistakenly used the term net worth, but I corrected that by pointing out that I do understand the difference.  I’m not an accounting person, therefore subject to using the wrong terms now and then.  But to me thats different than not understanding the difference.

I did not mean to try to offend you or anything. I did get an impression that you were relatively sloppy in counting how much you are worth. Anyway, my message is not that you are a bad person in any way, but that you have to be diligent, save money etc. i

Response:

All fine points, but I dont quite understand what you mean by the following: The point is bongbong, that you should be much more diligent in counting your own money properly.

I mistakenly used the term net worth, but I corrected that by pointing out that I do understand the difference.  I’m not an accounting person, therefore subject to using the wrong terms now and then.  But to me thats different than not understanding the difference.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bongbong said for all posterity… Subtract from it 8% selling costs… Seems high..  going rate for commissions in my area are 6-7%, discount brokers willl do it for 4-4.5 range, … and the seller usually pays significant closing costs that have to be added in. Hmm.  All that’s negotiable.  Don’t forget the FSBO option, and home improvements are deductible. But it’s kind of unfortunate that the thread ended up in a real estate discussion.  

The point is bongbong, that you should be much more diligent in counting your own money properly. You are behind, that is correctable, start working on it. Doing honest and careful accounting of your assets and liabilities is the first step. You obviously do not have to share the results with us. The second step that I would do is making sure that high interest loans are paid off and that you have some emergency cash. The third step that I would do is making contributions to your retirement accounts. They have some nice tax free growth features. Spend less, do not remarry, and you will be virtually assured that you will accumulate a lot more wealth, even if you do not make much. If you do remarry, there is no such assurance — maybe you will get back on track and maybe not. There is no magical wand as far as getting rich by saving, any more than there is no magical diet for weight loss — you just have to do good things and not do bad things. i

Response:

Subtract from it 8% selling costs…

Seems high..  going rate for commissions in my area are 6-7%, discount brokers willl do it for 4-4.5 range, Well, yes you are behind, now start spending less than what you are earning and investing it wisely, and do not give it away…

Sound advice..

Response:

bongbong said for all posterity… Subtract from it 8% selling costs… Seems high..  going rate for commissions in my area are 6-7%, discount brokers willl do it for 4-4.5 range,

… and the seller usually pays significant closing costs that have to be added in. Casey Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

Response:

bongbong said for all posterity… Subtract from it 8% selling costs… Seems high..  going rate for commissions in my area are 6-7%, discount brokers willl do it for 4-4.5 range, … and the seller usually pays significant closing costs that have to be added in.

Hmm.  All that’s negotiable.  Don’t forget the FSBO option, and home improvements are deductible. But it’s kind of unfortunate that the thread ended up in a real estate discussion.  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age? I just realized that I used Enron accounting to figure my net worth. I did not take into consideration my home mortgage.  I really meant to say my assets are about $50k..  meaning, if I sold my house right now, the proceeds from the sale plus what I have in my 401k etc would come out to about $50k. So, I’m interested in hearing opinions with the above corrected info. thanks to all who have replied thus far.. Sounds like you are SERIOUSLY confused about your accounting. Can you make a table of your assets and liabilities, and subtract one from another. Well all I meant to say is that I used the wrong term, "net worth", which indeed is assets minus liabilities. But in my opinion that figure doesnt mean much.  Because if you live in a house that could sell for $300k and owe $200k on it, then in my mind (regardless of proper accounting terminology), that is $100k that is yours (unless of course something happens like the real estate market bottoms out or something to reduce the equity in the house). Amount owed on the house is $200k, but that debt goes away once it sells.

Subtract from it 8% selling costs… In other words, that $50k figure was "if I sold everything I have, how much cash in pocket would I walk away with"..   So, I am looking for some feedback based on my age and that sum.   Am I woefully behind?

Well, yes you are behind, now start spending less than what you are earning and investing it wisely, and do not give it away… i

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age? I just realized that I used Enron accounting to figure my net worth. I did not take into consideration my home mortgage.  I really meant to say my assets are about $50k..  meaning, if I sold my house right now, the proceeds from the sale plus what I have in my 401k etc would come out to about $50k. So, I’m interested in hearing opinions with the above corrected info. thanks to all who have replied thus far.. Sounds like you are SERIOUSLY confused about your accounting. Can you make a table of your assets and liabilities, and subtract one from another.

Well all I meant to say is that I used the wrong term, "net worth", which indeed is assets minus liabilities. But in my opinion that figure doesnt mean much.  Because if you live in a house that could sell for $300k and owe $200k on it, then in my mind (regardless of proper accounting terminology), that is $100k that is yours (unless of course something happens like the real estate market bottoms out or something to reduce the equity in the house). Amount owed on the house is $200k, but that debt goes away once it sells. In other words, that $50k figure was "if I sold everything I have, how much cash in pocket would I walk away with"..   So, I am looking for some feedback based on my age and that sum.   Am I woefully behind?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age? I just realized that I used Enron accounting to figure my net worth. I did not take into consideration my home mortgage.  I really meant to say my assets are about $50k..  meaning, if I sold my house right now, the proceeds from the sale plus what I have in my 401k etc would come out to about $50k. So, I’m interested in hearing opinions with the above corrected info. thanks to all who have replied thus far..

Sounds like you are SERIOUSLY confused about your accounting. Can you make a table of your assets and liabilities, and subtract one from another. i

Response:

Try to be grateful that you actually have something to live on. You are really are better off than many of the posters here who have learned to scrape by on inadequate child support on one hand, or have to live like a monk as a result of cruel divisions of property and alimony on the other.  Everyone in a divorce takes a hit (for Bill — except the lawyers).  One person living alone still has many of the same costs as two people living together.  IMHO, all you can do is live a more frugal lifestyle, which should now, theoretically, be easier to do.  [R] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

Response:

After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

Hey, I just had a bankruptcy order made against me by my own solicitors (lawyers) yesterday.  These were the (**warning, warning** incoming generalization) scum loving dirtbags (boy I’ve been waiting to say that) that were supposedly helping me with not having by wife abscond with my kids.  Anyway, just a little rant there (may they rot in h*ll).  And I am older than you, and had a spectacular crash, so I wouldn’t sweat that one too much. Anyway, back on topic (because I think your post is very much on topic to things divorce).  Divorce is, IMHO, a crashing mix of emotional and financial precipices.  In my own view, the whole event (which isn’t over yet for me) was like being body slammed by one of those WWF people.  I only have myself to blame for where financially I am currently, but that is not to say that I do not spend a lot of time saying things like, "Well, remember that your solicitor said that a vast number of divorces end in bankruptcy or financial ruin," and "well, how in the hell did they expect me to pull my act together financially when I was reeling from the emotional trauma." People, do, I guess, do fine and go through it without missing a beat (I tried to show everybody else that that was true, and to a certain extent probably still am). I think the solution is two pronged. 1) you have to realize that you are in your life, not in somebody elses or some partnership.  I think that the vast majority of people loose that (okay, another generalization, but not gender specific) in a marriage, and focus on the *us* as opposed to the *you* and *me*.  You need, IMHO, all three of those, and can’t sacrifice one for the other.  In that vein, while you still have thoughts of your ex, you need (IMHO) to begin developing some strategies for getting rid of the thoughts *for* your ex.  It is your life, and she is no longer a part of it. 2) Goal set.  I muddled for 18 months as I was doing my custody battle, and a software company that I had started and people that I had hired rolled and died because I didn’t goal set (that and I was spending tons of time in court and with lawyers . . . did I mention scum sucking in a while?).  I spent these past six months still vacilating about my direction, taking a couple of steps forward here and then a couple there.  Tried to set a framework, but that didn’t really go anywhere.  About a month or so ago, that changed.  I figured it was my life, and while I have always done what I have liked to do, I have in the past done it for somebody other than me. So, if you don’t like where you are, goal set.  Figure out where you want to be in 15 years, then break that down into ever smaller steps to achieve it. I am working on a whole variety of things like that for myself, not just in my career, but in my healthy, happiness, family, financial wellbeing and my relationship. Look at it this way (simplistically).  In four minutes, I need to be out the door ten feet away, so in two minutes I need to be five feet away, and in one minute I need to be 2.5 feet away (average pace).  Now, getting out the door may have seemed impossible (okay, too much to drink, I know) but now all I have to do is focus on taking one pace each minute, and I am there. That, and realize that there are always set-backs, but those set-backs are challenges that we are actually biologically designed to overcome (endorphins and such . . . great program on tv last night). Just my thoughts. Rambler

Response:

After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

Response:

After having been divorced for a couple of years now (and still hopelessly missing my ex-wife), I seem to have suddenly found myself in my mid 30s, and not where I wanted to be at this point in time financially.  My divorce was of course financially devastating. I figure my total networth is maybe $50k. I know this is a little off topic, but it is divorce related and I just wondered what strategies you guys use to get back on track financially after a divorce?  Anyone out there worse off than me?  Am I doing ok for my age?

Well, when I was in my mid 30s I was still married and had a net worth of about 50 cents, so your $50k doesn’t sound too bad to me.

Response:

Question:

i just bought Atkins’ book. here are some questions i have. i haven’t read the whole thing (bought it at 9:30 last night). 1) do i HAVE to eat chicken with the skin on? esp. for induction? i have a whole freezer load of boneless, skinless chicken breasts. can i have those? 2) i prefer turkey bacon over "real" bacon. can i eat turkey bacon liberally and not have to worry about it being nitrate-free? 3) i like a splash of milk in my scrambled eggs? can i have a splash (probably way less than 1/8 cup) during induction? 4) anyone do induction by drinking caffeine? i am a diet coke addict and i’m not sure how i will fare w/o my daily dose. 5) what was the hardest part of induction and the program in general? i’m already dreading people making me believe i am missing out and being deprived because i can’t have a piece of bread (or whatever). any quick comebacks i can nick from someone? i’m already thinking i’ll say something like, "i want to get healthier more than i want to eat a piece of bread." thanx in advance, pam

Response:

1) No you dont have to eat it that way, but you can. 2) Yes you can eat the turkey bacon, but it is lower in fat and we are not trying to keep our fat down. If you make it, cook it in olive oil. 3) NO MILK. Try cream instead. 4) Atkins is anti caffeine because of the results of a diet soda study. Feel free to caffienate. Some people even use a ephedra, caffeine, asparin stack (ECA stack) to loose more weight. 5) The hardest part of induction is the first week of feeling your body go through very odd changes. Once you get past them it is clear sailing. You are not missing out on anyting except a shorter life. Feel free to tell people that. If people ask what diet you are on say a LOW CARB diet or a low glycemic diet. The idiots out there think Atkins is a fad and not healthy. Confusing them with the technical terms of the diet is helpful. If they press you, you can say you are using the information in the Atkins book as a guideline. Do get your blood checked so you have evidence once you have gotten through this and can state with confidence that you will live longer this way. You do still have the choice to moderate on foods, on occasion, which are high carb if you feel like it. You still have the option to not miss out on some of the "forbiden" foods once and a while. And restaurants are VERY cool about low carbers now. Ordering meals without starches is not unusual at all and many will even offer low low carb substitutes in the starches absense. It is really getting pretty cool in the restaurant world for us LC’ers. My best advice. STICK WITH IT. There will be moments while in induction that will be very odd indeed, but realize that those moments are reinforcement that you are doing something right for YOU. Be selfish about this and do what YOU want to do with YOUR life. The only thing that people will be able to say in 6 months is "WOW, you have come a long way. How did you do that? You look great."

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i just bought Atkins’ book. here are some questions i have. i haven’t read the whole thing (bought it at 9:30 last night). 1) do i HAVE to eat chicken with the skin on? esp. for induction? i have a whole freezer load of boneless, skinless chicken breasts. can i have those? 2) i prefer turkey bacon over "real" bacon. can i eat turkey bacon liberally and not have to worry about it being nitrate-free? 3) i like a splash of milk in my scrambled eggs? can i have a splash (probably way less than 1/8 cup) during induction? 4) anyone do induction by drinking caffeine? i am a diet coke addict and i’m not sure how i will fare w/o my daily dose. 5) what was the hardest part of induction and the program in general? i’m already dreading people making me believe i am missing out and being deprived because i can’t have a piece of bread (or whatever). any quick comebacks i can nick from someone? i’m already thinking i’ll say something like, "i want to get healthier more than i want to eat a piece of bread." thanx in advance, pam

Response:

i just bought Atkins’ book. here are some questions i have. i haven’t read the whole thing (bought it at 9:30 last night). 1) do i HAVE to eat chicken with the skin on? esp. for induction? i have a whole freezer load of boneless, skinless chicken breasts. can i have those?

Sure. You don’t have to cut the skin off (like some people do), unless you prefer chicken with no skin. Just marinate or saute it in something oil based, so you get enough fat. 2) i prefer turkey bacon over "real" bacon. can i eat turkey bacon liberally and not have to worry about it being nitrate-free?

No accounting for taste! I’ve eaten turkey bacon and sausage, by mistake. I won’t make that mistake again. Think about your protein vs fat balance. 3) i like a splash of milk in my scrambled eggs? can i have a splash (probably way less than 1/8 cup) during induction?

Well, let’s do the arithmetic. You’re going to have 20 g/carb per day during induction, of which 1 or 2 will be from the milk? You *could* do that. Or you could just use a smidge of heavy cream instead, for half the carb content. 4) anyone do induction by drinking caffeine? i am a diet coke addict and i’m not sure how i will fare w/o my daily dose.

Some people get stalled by the caffeine and/or other ingredients in the soda. On the other hand, some people get serious caffeine withdrawal symptoms on top of the carb withdrawal. Your body, your science experiment. AF — "it’s good to know that this country hasn’t lost touch with its founding values and principles:  freedom for all, a government of the people, for the people and by the people and a personal relationship with Loki." — sam h shares his vision of the American Dream

Response:

1) do i HAVE to eat chicken with the skin on? esp. for induction? i have a whole freezer load of boneless, skinless chicken breasts. can i have those?

Of course you can.  What leads you to think you can’t?  Most people like the skin, so I think Atkins is pointing out that you can have it.  But if you read his recipes, you’ll notice that many of them call for boneless skinless thighs or breasts. 2) i prefer turkey bacon over "real" bacon. can i eat turkey bacon liberally and not have to worry about it being nitrate-free?

Not sure what you’re asking.  You *want* nitrate-free products.  If your turkey bacon is nitrate-free, great.  I eat nitrate-containing pork bacon, but very infrequently. 3) i like a splash of milk in my scrambled eggs? can i have a splash (probably way less than 1/8 cup) during induction?

Try cream, or water, or both (what I do).  But if you must use milk, count the carbs.  2 tablespoons is 1 gram. 4) anyone do induction by drinking caffeine? i am a diet coke addict and i’m not sure how i will fare w/o my daily dose.

I had caffeine headaches, so I brought one daily full-strength espresso back into my diet.  For most people, aspartame is the issue of Diet Coke, not the caffeine.  Try Diet Rite–no aspartame, no caffeine, and yummy, especially the flavors. 5) what was the hardest part of induction and the program in general?

I’ve only been doing it a few weeks, but "hard" is not a word I’d use so far.  I felt dreadful the third and fourth days from carb withdrawal, but other than that, the experience has been great.  The only "hard" thing is keeping track of everything you eat. i’m already dreading people making me believe i am missing out and being deprived because i can’t have a piece of bread (or whatever). any quick comebacks i can nick from someone? i’m already thinking i’ll say something like, "i want to get healthier more than i want to eat a piece of bread."

How about, "No, thank you?"  I prefer not to discuss my reasons. — Trey 225/208/145 Started Atkins Induction 07/22/02 Started OWL 08/08/02 — currently at 25 g carbs

Response:

1) no skin req. 2)turkey o.k. count carbs. 3)you probably shouldn’t if you wont miss it to much but if you do count carbs. 4)I’ve had a diet pepsi or two a week, caffiene just makes you crave. 5)hardest part for me is the first 3 to 5 days. you can have bread after a while there’s only 10 carbs. in one slice. I have eggs on a slice in the morning sometimes w/o going over 35 carbs in that day. check out you health food stores for sweets and breads you’re allowed to have.

Response:

Trey 225/207/145

what are these numbers? (i am only on page 30-something w/ atkins) i thought it was weight but you couldn’t have lost eighty pounds in 3 weeks, uh, right? pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Started Atkins Induction 07/22/02 Started OWL 08/08/02 — currently at 25 g carbs

Response:

5) The hardest part of induction is the first week of feeling your body go through very odd changes. Once you get past them it is clear sailing. You are not missing out on anyting except a shorter life. Feel free to tell people that. If people ask what diet you are on say a LOW CARB diet or a low glycemic diet.

I usually say i am on a carbohydrate controlled intake plan. if you say diet people go crazy trying to disprove it. its just easier than saying diet. though it is a mouthful. heh, no pun intended. Sponky

Response:

Trey 225/207/145 what are these numbers? (i am only on page 30-something w/ atkins) i thought it was weight but you couldn’t have lost eighty pounds in 3 weeks, uh, right?

Start weight/current weight/goal weight — Trey 225/207/145 Started Atkins Induction 07/22/02 Started OWL 08/08/02 — currently at 25 g carbs

Response:

Just the whole process of switching from carb burning to fat burning makes your body do strange things. Feeling lethargic, tired, sick, headaches, these are all things (and there are more) that people tend to mention as problems for the first week or two. Once you are deep into lipolisis though you will be done with these feelings and all will be better than before, but do not be surprised when you feel "unusual" for the begining of this adventure.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 5) The hardest part of induction is the first week of feeling your body go through very odd changes. uh…like what?

Response:

5) The hardest part of induction is the first week of feeling your body go through very odd changes.

uh…like what?

Response:

5) The hardest part of induction is the first week of feeling your body go through very odd changes. uh…like what?

Everybody’s different–some people have reported no odd feelings at all, some feel wretched and want to die (or quit Atkins), and some feel great. As for me, I had an awful headache.  Not a migraine, just a terrible tightness at the back of my skull that wouldn’t go away for 48 hours (days three and four, continuing in the background if I thought about it on into days five and six), even with pain relievers.  I believe it was caffeine withdrawal–a nice heavy-cream cappucino with full-strength espresso reduced the pain quite a bit.  Apparently quitting caffeine is not essential to the process of Induction, though it is desirable if you can manage it.  I couldn’t, though my daily caffeine consumption now is about 15% of what it was before Induction. I also had stomach distress–not cramps, not nausea, just tightness and churning.  I felt very hot, and sweated quite a bit.  I felt weak and my large muscles in the arms and legs spasmed a bit.  These were probably symptoms of carbohydrate withdrawal. I had odd and elaborate dreams having to do with food and counting carbs.  One I remember vividly was learning that you could eat a banana cream pie without counting the carbs if the entire pie was eaten in one sitting exactly N minutes after breakfast, where N was a number derived from the effective carb count, fat content, and number of bananas in the pie by some complex equation.  I think I had read articles about CAD, stacking, and CKD that day and my brain was trying to process all that information–that’s what dreams are for.  I was a bit annoyed when I awoke from that one and realized it wasn’t true. Finally, I generally felt out of sorts and "wrong".  Several people on the NG said that sounded like candida (systemic yeast colonization) die-off.  Sure enough, my dentist noticed an enormous improvement in my oral candida a couple days later–and he had seen me just a week before. These symptoms were all only during days three, four, and the beginning of five on Induction.  Many people report extreme hunger on days one and two, going into three and four, but just before starting Induction I was ill, and just called two days I didn’t eat hardly at all days one and two by fiat and started eating on day three.  So I can’t speak to hunger on those days. By the end of day five, I felt great, and the appetite supression of ketosis was in full swing.  I’ve felt good since, and many of my ongoing pre-Atkins complaints, including brain-fog, occassional headaches, GERD, and IBS, have vanished or reduced substantially. — Trey 225/207/145 Started Atkins Induction 07/22/02 Started OWL 08/08/02 — currently at 25 g carbs

Response:

wayne- you are too funny! thanx for the laugh. pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As for other people…they’ll look at you like your nuts or rush to catch your kidneys which they think are going to fall out. Waitresses will leave the bread bowl through dessert because they are convinced you just forgot to eat it. Well, the way I fought this was simply not to tell anyone what I was doing. Only if they asked and were very interested did I describe the WOE. Now that there is an obvious difference in my body, I proudly say I’m doing Atkins. Screw ‘em….it’s my life and it will be longer now that I am 40% of a person lighter. Wayne Crannell 250/160.5/155 Atkins 10/27/01

Response:

dean- thanx. this is so touching i am going to print it and keep it for inspiration! pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My best advice. STICK WITH IT. There will be moments while in induction that will be very odd indeed, but realize that those moments are reinforcement that you are doing something right for YOU. Be selfish about this and do what YOU want to do with YOUR life. The only thing that people will be able to say in 6 months is "WOW, you have come a long way. How did you do that? You look great."

Response:

3) i like a splash of milk in my scrambled eggs? can i have a splash (probably way less than 1/8 cup) during induction? Try cream, or water, or both (what I do).  But if you must use milk, count the carbs.  2 tablespoons is 1 gram.

Oops!  2 tablespoons is 1.5 gram whole milk.  More for 2% or skim. I’ve memorized lots of carb counts, but not of things I don’t have, like milk! — Trey 225/207/145 Started Atkins Induction 07/22/02 Started OWL 08/08/02 — currently at 25 g carbs

Response:

1) do i HAVE to eat chicken with the skin on? esp. for induction? i have a whole freezer load of boneless, skinless chicken breasts. can i have those? Sure. You don’t have to cut the skin off (like some people do), unless you prefer chicken with no skin. Just marinate or saute it in something oil based, so you get enough fat.

You can also saute in butter.  I’ve been using butter more often than olive oil during induction.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i just bought Atkins’ book. here are some questions i have. i haven’t read the whole thing (bought it at 9:30 last night). 1) do i HAVE to eat chicken with the skin on? esp. for induction? i have a whole freezer load of boneless, skinless chicken breasts. can i have those? 2) i prefer turkey bacon over "real" bacon. can i eat turkey bacon liberally and not have to worry about it being nitrate-free? 3) i like a splash of milk in my scrambled eggs? can i have a splash (probably way less than 1/8 cup) during induction? 4) anyone do induction by drinking caffeine? i am a diet coke addict and i’m not sure how i will fare w/o my daily dose. 5) what was the hardest part of induction and the program in general? i’m already dreading people making me believe i am missing out and being deprived because i can’t have a piece of bread (or whatever). any quick comebacks i can nick from someone? i’m already thinking i’ll say something like, "i want to get healthier more than i want to eat a piece of bread." thanx in advance, pam

Here’s my 2 cents, and remember you get what you pay for. 1. I eat almost nothing BUT boneless, skinless. I get fat from other sources. I’m not adverse to a well-prepared plate of wings though! 2. Turkey bacon will have more carbs. Check the label for nitrates. I’m guessing the normal turkey bacon will have some. 3. How about a splash of cream in your eggs, or better yet, water. Water is the best for fluffiness. 4. Lot’s of people do caffeine. I changed to decaf simply as a mental thing…..sort of the "complete, new lifestyle" approach. These days I use about 2/3 decaf and 1/3 caf. I’ll have a triple espresso once in a while though. 5. The hardest part was the first few days. Just changing the mindset was tough. But once I decided, I simply refused to give in. No cheats. Ever. I’m just a really stubborn bastard, and still am. Now it is second nature to push the bread away and never even taste someting with carbs in it. (For example, today, I for the first time ate sugar free jelly beans – 9 of them…yes, I counted – you’d think I ran over a puppy what with all the guilt I experienced. However, being that they were sweetened with malitol, I did in fact pay the pennance later As for other people…they’ll look at you like your nuts or rush to catch your kidneys which they think are going to fall out. Waitresses will leave the bread bowl through dessert because they are convinced you just forgot to eat it. Well, the way I fought this was simply not to tell anyone what I was doing. Only if they asked and were very interested did I describe the WOE. Now that there is an obvious difference in my body, I proudly say I’m doing Atkins. Screw ‘em….it’s my life and it will be longer now that I am 40% of a person lighter. Wayne Crannell 250/160.5/155 Atkins 10/27/01

Response:

Question:

We want to factor one of our accounts payables ( a vendor’s invoice to us). What are the accounting entries that we should make when we do this — Mike Carey Carb-BOOM, Inc 4475 Mission Blvd  Suite 213 San Diego  CA   92109 (520) 318-4284 voice (520) 223-0100 fax www.carbboom.com

Response:

You have the wrong term. Factoring is selling receivable. Unless you are saying the vendor owes you with this statement "( a vendor’s invoice to us)"? Are you discounting payment because you paid early? I will try to tell you if you can tell me who owes what and what you are trying to do. Sue E – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We want to factor one of our accounts payables ( a vendor’s invoice to us). What are the accounting entries that we should make when we do this — Mike Carey Carb-BOOM, Inc 4475 Mission Blvd  Suite 213 San Diego  CA   92109 (520) 318-4284 voice (520) 223-0100 fax www.carbboom.com

Response:

Our vendor is actually doing the factoring on their receivable to us. Vendor A invoices Vendor B, and also factors the invoice thru Factoring Company Z, an online factoring company.  Vendor A mails the invoice to Vendor B, and also sets up the factoring on COmpany Z’s online service. Facoring Company Z charges 2.5% of the amount as a fee(which A & B agreed to split), so the  the amount to be paid is increased by 1.25%.  Vendor B goes to Factoring Company Z’s website, approves the invoice.  Factoring Company Z sendsVendor A the invoice amount, less the 2.5% fee 3 days later.  Vendor B pays Factoring Company Z the invoice amount + 1.25% 60 days later. What do the accounting entries look like on Company B’s books ??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have the wrong term. Factoring is selling receivable. Unless you are saying the vendor owes you with this statement "( a vendor’s invoice to us)"? Are you discounting payment because you paid early? I will try to tell you if you can tell me who owes what and what you are trying to do. Sue E We want to factor one of our accounts payables ( a vendor’s invoice to us). What are the accounting entries that we should make when we do this — Mike Carey Carb-BOOM, Inc 4475 Mission Blvd  Suite 213 San Diego  CA   92109 (520) 318-4284 voice (520) 223-0100 fax www.carbboom.com

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf POS program that interfaces with QB6 Pro? Need to set up a cash drawer to sell inventory and non-inventory parts and also record rental payments. If not, have any of you had any reliable success importing transactions and exporting the parts list to a database program such as MS Access? TIA< Ed Schaperjahn HELP! Small Business Solutions

Response:

Quit QB…..try Pastel (already has EPOS built into accounitng system) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf POS program that interfaces with QB6 Pro? Need to set up a cash drawer to sell inventory and non-inventory parts and also record rental payments. If not, have any of you had any reliable success importing transactions and exporting the parts list to a database program such as MS Access? TIA< Ed Schaperjahn HELP! Small Business Solutions

Response:

I am also of the opinion that, if the goal is to work in Access, then run the entire process in Access. There are a number of ways to import and export data in QB, but it’s clumsy compared with implementing an Access system with open source code. Also, POS has any number of variations, starting with a PC and a cash drawer to bar code, credit card authorization, and so on.   If you like, I will be happy to point you to some of the non-QB all-Access alternatives. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick 949-261-2694 Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf POS program that interfaces with QB6 Pro? Need to set up a cash drawer to sell inventory and non-inventory parts and also record rental payments. If not, have any of you had any reliable success importing transactions and exporting the parts list to a database program such as MS Access? TIA< Ed Schaperjahn HELP! Small Business Solutions

- Carl Dick 949-261-2694 800-997-7944 www.cpaccess.com

Response:

I am also of the opinion that, if the goal is to work in Access, then run the entire process in Access. There are a number of ways to import and export data in QB, but it’s clumsy compared with implementing an Access system with open source code. Also, POS has any number of variations, starting with a PC and a cash drawer to bar code, credit card authorization, and so on.   If you like, I will be happy to point you to some of the non-QB all-Access alternatives. Respectfully, – Carl Dick

Carl, I would be happy if you gave me some pointers to Access-based and other POS software. However, these would only be for future reference. This client is penny-wise and pound-foolish and does not want to convert their accounting system from something else besides QB. Hell, I can’t even get them to install a peer-to-peer network. Instead they pass floppies back and forth to print. Go figure?! I thought a quick and dirty something would get them to spring for more. Thanks for your input, though. Ed Schaperjahn HELP! Small Business Solutions

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am also of the opinion that, if the goal is to work in Access, then run the entire process in Access. There are a number of ways to import and export data in QB, but it’s clumsy compared with implementing an Access system with open source code. Also, POS has any number of variations, starting with a PC and a cash drawer to bar code, credit card authorization, and so on. If you like, I will be happy to point you to some of the non-QB all-Access alternatives. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick 949-261-2694 Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf POS program that interfaces with QB6 Pro? Need to set up a cash drawer to sell inventory and non-inventory parts and also record rental payments. If not, have any of you had any reliable success importing transactions and exporting the parts list to a database program such as MS Access? TIA< Ed Schaperjahn HELP! Small Business Solutions – Carl Dick 949-261-2694 800-997-7944 www.cpaccess.com

Go to http://www.winsellpos.com/ Winsell Express is a nice little POS program that I am setting up for a friend right now. You can export a *.iif file that can be imported directly into QB. The only problem I have is getting it to open a Fujitsu cash drawer from the Epson TM-300PD receipt printer. Any suggestions? Best regards, Craig Moore Moore Computer Services

Response:

Quicksell 2000 is access based and imports to Quickbooks. http://www.smspos.com Phyllis Phyllis Davis-Minik Owner   Advanced EDI & Barcoding Corp Pensacola, Florida                        |  (850) 492-9333 Ext. 12 $$$Find out how to improve your inventory accuracy$$$ FREE email newsletter: http://www.edi-barcoding.com/news.htm

Response:

Question:

Hi, does anyone know how to solve Cost accounting T-account type questions?  I solutions asap if you can help me out. i’ve posted a couple of questions below…  i hope my pathletic attempt to draw the t-accounts work… thanks.

The time you have spent typing this E-mail and sending it three times could have been used reading the material and doing the work yourself.  Sorry i’m cynical – I am taking classes myself, and find I cannot learn unless I DO it! — Cary Hedrick, Accountant "You may soar with eagles, but weasles don’t get caught in jet engines." (

Response:

Hi, does anyone know how to solve Cost accounting T-account type questions?  I solutions asap if you can help me out. i’ve posted a couple of questions below…  i hope my pathletic attempt to draw the t-accounts work… thanks. Q. 1 Use the following information and the T-accounts to solve for the required amounts – all of the information relates to the month of Sept, 1991 – Supplies used: $18,000 – Overhead application rate: 50%  of direct labour costs – All sales were on account – Miscellaneous overhead costs: $22,000 – Direct Labour Cost $200,000 – Markup cost: 25% – The accounts payable account is used only for purchase of stores. – Collection of accounts receivable: $520,000 – Over-applied overhead: $5,000 Use the T accounts to calculate the following: a. overhead applied b. sales c. cost of goods sold d. cost of goods manufactured e. direct materials used f. payment of accounts payable g. indirect labour T accounts: Materials 27,000  |         |         |         | 39,000 Work in Process 8,000  |        |        | 15,000 Finished Goods 11,000  |         |         | 24,000 Cost of Goods Sold          |          |          |          | Overhead Applied          |          |          |          | Overhead Control          |          |          |          |          | Accounts Receivable 55,000  |         |         |         | 35,000 Pre-paid Factory Insurance 6,000   |         |         |         | 4,000 Accrued Factory Payroll          |25,000          |          |          |                 37,000 Accounts Payable          |16,000          |          |          |            21,000 Accumulated Depreciation Manufacturing Equipment                      | 92,000                      |                      |                      |                        105,000

Response:

Question:

I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Response:

Leave your wife, and get the kids a different Mom, one that appreciates the value of a family get away on the boat skiing or fishing. Do it right now!  Before she calls a good lawyer and get your boat and your kids! Sorry I couldn’t help myself! I had the same problem, My brothers and I bought a 1960 Wizard with a cabin for similar price, all my wife saw was an old boat, and a new toy for me to play with.  I showed some patience, and finally got her to go out on the boat.  She had a blast and now can’t stop asking for us to go out again. Keep any of the negatives that may develop regarding the boat secret from her. Happy boating, your kids will love it, and will forever cherish the times you spend together boating. Big Daddy X – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Response:

Leave your wife, and get the kids a different Mom, one that appreciates the value of a family get away on the boat skiing or fishing. Do it right now!  Before she calls a good lawyer and get your boat and your kids! Sorry I couldn’t help myself! I hid the same problem, My brothers and I bought a 1960 Wizard with a cabin for similar price, all my wife saw was an old boat, and a new toy for me to play with.  I showed some patience, and finally got her to go out on the boat.  She had a blast and now can’t stop asking for us to go out again. Keep any of the negatives that may develop regarding the boat secret from her. Happy boating, your kids will love it, and will forever cherish the times you spend together boating. Big Daddy X – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Response:

I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

My advise would be to keep her out of the launch/ retrieval process if possible. Some of the biggest fights I have witnessed are at the launch ramp. Once you have a few good days hopefully she will warm up to the idea. Good Luck — Ray Fritz Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise! www.sdboats.com

Response:

Hello, I have a 1971 Thunderbird Cheyenne with cuddy, I couldn’t enjoy it more!  Wife enjoys going out with me as so do the kids.  Boats cannot be measured like cars, if you keep them up they will last a lifetime …or longer! Robert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water.. Hi, I picked up a old 1971 Glasspar 17′ with a 90hp Johnson outboard, and trailer for $1800 last year. Take your wife out and make a picnic lunch, bring her favorite book and do some fishing. That’s how I won mine over. My wife was upset about the age of the boat – 26 years old when I bought it. Get a few boating publications and show her what a new one goes for, how much a new motor costs, and the cost of most used ones. If you have a child to bring along, like I do – you can win her over even faster – My 7 year old boy can’t wait to take the boat out on weekends. How old is your Glasspar? What size/motor? Steve —

Response:

I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Hi, I picked up a old 1971 Glasspar 17′ with a 90hp Johnson outboard, and trailer for $1800 last year. Take your wife out and make a picnic lunch, bring her favorite book and do some fishing. That’s how I won mine over. My wife was upset about the age of the boat – 26 years old when I bought it. Get a few boating publications and show her what a new one goes for, how much a new motor costs, and the cost of most used ones. If you have a child to bring along, like I do – you can win her over even faster – My 7 year old boy can’t wait to take the boat out on weekends. How old is your Glasspar? What size/motor? Steve —

Response:

Get one of Bennetts automatic tab adjusters, I have not seen them at work …..but they sound like they should work OK. http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/ — Scott Beers N1KMX USCGA 01N-1202 http://people.ne.mediaone.net/sbeers/index.html SNIP <snip "mat the throttle, and trim up to the stops". <sniptotally yet. I think

she’s waiting for me to finally give up the sport – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -boat scene and get that cruiser. I thinks she’ll want to drive that one…… Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SNIP mysteriously appeared on the bill.  We both love the boat.  She it just learning to get it on the trailer.  Usually she backs the trailer down the ramp, she also pulls me around the lake.  It is nice having the extra help, and a friend to always have to go boating with, when the guys are not available :^) Brad Over the last two weekends I got my wife back into the boat, it’s been a while since she’s been out.  This time I let her drive, since my boat is set up with side by side bolsters and left hand throttles, I took care of trimming and throttling.  We had 5 other boats running with us taking a casual cruise running about 55 mph.  Out of no where a 25′ Baja pulled up looking for a race.  One of the other boats started to play with the Baja, they were running in the mid 70 mph range.  With my wife behind the wheel we smoked the two boats when I cracked the throttles and ran the boat well into the mid 80 mph range.  After showing our stuff we slowed back down to our 50 mph cruise.  The Baja pulled up next to use, when the gold chained Baja dude saw he got smoked by a woman he just turned and ran the other way.  I haven’t seen my wife that excited in a long time.  The driving / throttling arrangment works out well since we are both involved all the time. Looks like she will be out all the time from now on.

My wife used to love driving the boat, and enjoyed smoking an occasional punk or two (usually accompanied by that classic dumbfounded look after being beaten by a "girl"). With my latest boat though, she never seems to want to drive, except for loading and unloading off of the trailer. She finally admited to me that this boat is too "complicated". She had no problem with the throttle and trim, but this boat now has tabs to adjust, and she just doesn’t like having to worry about all the little adjustments. I can understand what she means. Our last boat was just "mat the throttle, and trim up to the stops". This boat will porpose if trimmed too far (Hence the tabs), and you have to know what degree of tab for what speed, and where people are sitting, combined with the motor trim. It’s second nature for me, but she doesn’t quite "get it" totally yet. I think she’s waiting for me to finally give up the sport boat scene and get that cruiser. I thinks she’ll want to drive that one…… Dave

Response:

SNIP mysteriously appeared on the bill.  We both love the boat.  She it just learning to get it on the trailer.  Usually she backs the trailer down the ramp, she also pulls me around the lake.  It is nice having the extra help, and a friend to always have to go boating with, when the guys are not available :^) Brad

Over the last two weekends I got my wife back into the boat, it’s been a while since she’s been out.  This time I let her drive, since my boat is set up with side by side bolsters and left hand throttles, I took care of trimming and throttling.  We had 5 other boats running with us taking a casual cruise running about 55 mph.  Out of no where a 25′ Baja pulled up looking for a race.  One of the other boats started to play with the Baja, they were running in the mid 70 mph range.  With my wife behind the wheel we smoked the two boats when I cracked the throttles and ran the boat well into the mid 80 mph range.  After showing our stuff we slowed back down to our 50 mph cruise.  The Baja pulled up next to use, when the gold chained Baja dude saw he got smoked by a woman he just turned and ran the other way.  I haven’t seen my wife that excited in a long time.  The driving / throttling arrangment works out well since we are both involved all the time. Looks like she will be out all the time from now on. Garry Heon http://home.att.net/~firststepp

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wanting a new boat for a long time.  Wifey and I went to a couple of boats shows.  While I was really excited about all those boats, I tried to restrain myself.  After a while I noticed what I like to call the ‘wife factor’.  I noticed she began to notice the details and creature comforts of varioous boats.  She began to say one boat appeared to  be nicer than another.  Then we came upon the Chaparral.  She began her woman speak, you know, like how nice the color was, how nice the seats were, how cool the cupholders were. Of course, I knew this was a good boat, so I scoped out the technical and performance aspects, the stuff that bores the typical wife.  So, without even trying, and without intent, we decided to purchase the same boat, from different perspectives.  Upon delivery my wife nit-picked every little detail.  Believe me, this worked to my benefit.  She even noticed an additional $1200.00 charge that mysteriously appeared on the bill.  We both love the boat.  She it just learning to get it on the trailer.  Usually she backs the trailer down the ramp, she also pulls me around the lake.  It is nice having the extra help, and a friend to always have to go boating with, when the guys are not available :^) Brad

I have to chuckle when I think about how my wife "man handles" boat salesmen. From being around my boats since we’ve been married (14 yrs), she’s picked up alot of technical details. Details that the stereotypical woman should not be expert in. I remember once, at a boat show, We were looking at a boat (I don’t remember what make), and since I’m a performance nut, speed is an important consideration. She asked the sales guy what the top speed was. The sales guy in his "anything to make a sale" voice, said "sure it’ll do 60 MPH". She looked at the prop, and determined that it was a 19" pitch, and said to the guy "The engine in this boat is rated at 4600 RPM’s max, and with a 19" pitch, that comes nowhere near 60 MPH, the low 50’s perhaps". The look the guy gave her was priceless. He looked like he just saw a ghost. She then went on to bet him that if the boat did 60, she would buy it at full price, but if it didn’t we get it for free, how confident are you? Needless to say, he didn’t make the bet. I couldn’t have been more proud. She does the same thing at car dealers, when we look at new tow vehicles. She insists on the trans cooler, the class 3 hitch and the other goodies. She also knows how to change a tire She is also the financial guru. (She works in accounting, and knows all the tricks). Sometimes this is a curse. I can usually walk away from something that I feel is a bit too much to afford. But she will call around and around and work out the best interest rate, and terms, and I end up getting the boat anyway (Twist my arm, right?). In the end, it’s a LOT better when she’s a part of the decision. That way she can’t blame me totally, if the boat isn’t living up to HER expectations (Hey, you picked it too!). Although, I don’t think she knows what she wants half the time…. Dave

Response:

<snip 1) How involved was your wife with the _purchase_ of the boat? I really started getting keen on the boat idea when we actually started looking at used boats. It really made me feel like a partner in the process & decision-making. Now, it sounds like your boat just kind of "jumped out" at ya – a "steal" that popped up. Your wife may feel like this boat doesn’t have anything to do with her. Nobody’s fault (although if you didn’t consult with her before buying it I have a feeling there’s more going on than her not being excited about the boat!!!) However you might rectify it by making sure that she is a major part of all further alterations or accessories for the boat. (I never dreamed boat catalogs could be so much fun). From lifejackets to paddles to drink holders to choosing a name, you can make the boating _experience_ hers even if the boat _decision_ wasn’t – this time.

I was wanting a new boat for a long time.  Wifey and I went to a couple of boats shows.  While I was really excited about all those boats, I tried to restrain myself.  After a while I noticed what I like to call the ‘wife factor’.  I noticed she began to notice the details and creature comforts of varioous boats.  She began to say one boat appeared to  be nicer than another.  Then we came upon the Chaparral.  She began her woman speak, you know, like how nice the color was, how nice the seats were, how cool the cupholders were. Of course, I knew this was a good boat, so I scoped out the technical and performance aspects, the stuff that bores the typical wife.  So, without even trying, and without intent, we decided to purchase the same boat, from different perspectives.  Upon delivery my wife nit-picked every little detail.  Believe me, this worked to my benefit.  She even noticed an additional $1200.00 charge that mysteriously appeared on the bill.  We both love the boat.  She it just learning to get it on the trailer.  Usually she backs the trailer down the ramp, she also pulls me around the lake.  It is nice having the extra help, and a friend to always have to go boating with, when the guys are not available :^) Brad

Response:

Hi "Mr. Soon", My wife also didn’t want a boat but we bought a very used 1970 120HP OMC runabout.  Brown tri hull, brown seats that would burn your butt in the sun!!  Couldn’t get it to run, reliably.  Each problem was a different one and each was fixed as it came up but we lost a LOT of good days on the lake.  Did I mention that it was an UGLY boat.  After 4 years and one ruined houseboat trip (our runabout wouldn’t run so we ran out of ice, no ice-cream runs, no tubing….if you’re going to be stuck, a houseboat is a very good place but we wanted to get off once in a while) we got a "new" boat.     Finally she said "get a boat that will run, or I’m not going back".  That’s what I wanted to hear!!      Bought a 1988 Winner 17′ in 1990 and have absolutly loved it.     Now to your question: My wife will drive the boat on/off the trailer but she doesn’t like to drive it at all.  She says it won’t stop… no brake pedal… and when you do stop it won’t "stay there".  BUT she does love to ride.  As long as I’ll drive, she’s ready to make waves and burn gas.     Someone else said his wife loves to drive…. people are just different.  My only suggestion is to keep cool, no tirades on the boat ramp or anywhere else.  Keep if fun and don’t force her.  She’ll either decide she likes it or not. Offer to pack the picnic lunch yourself.  Get the kids ready yourself.  Make it absolutly NO work for her and with any luck she’ll decide she likes it and you’ll all have fun.      Good Luck!  double d.  Louisville KY I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leave your wife, and get the kids a different Mom, one that appreciates the value of a family get away on the boat skiing or fishing. Do it right now!  Before she calls a good lawyer and get your boat and your kids! Sorry I couldn’t help myself! I had the same problem, My brothers and I bought a 1960 Wizard with a cabin for similar price, all my wife saw was an old boat, and a new toy for me to play with.  I showed some patience, and finally got her to go out on the boat.  She had a blast and now can’t stop asking for us to go out again. Keep any of the negatives that may develop regarding the boat secret from her. Happy boating, your kids will love it, and will forever cherish the times you spend together boating. Big Daddy X I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Response:

I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

I had the same problem. My wife wasn’t thrilled with my boat. After a few trips she began to like boating. Then she began to really like boating. Then she began running my arse into the ground taking her boating every damn weekend. Then…then…she referred to my boat as "our" boat. I called my daddy and cried "daddy, you know my boat?…..Well my wife is now calling it ‘our’ boat. What do I do?" My dad replied, "Don’t worry until she starts calling it her boat"….

Response:

I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water.. My advise would be to keep her out of the launch/ retrieval process if possible. Some of the biggest fights I have witnessed are at the launch

ramp. Oops Sorry,  Massive social blunder;-) Let me rephrase- any member of your family has trouble parallel parking a car, I would suggest not relying on that person in the launch retrival process. We had an instance here a few years ago that ths couple got into a huge fight at the launch ramp and the husband had a massive heart attack and died at the ramp. — Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise! www.sdboats.com

Response:

At a ramp – a man had his wife in the boat when he launched it.  He forgot to secure a line, as the boat drifted away from the ramp he yelled to his wife " through out the anchor".   She did,  It was not secured o the — A collision at sea can ruin your entire day! Charter Captain Courses –  Captain Bill Tyndall USCG Approved – 100 Ton Master – Near Coastal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water.. My advise would be to keep her out of the launch/ retrieval process if possible. Some of the biggest fights I have witnessed are at the launch ramp. Once you have a few good days hopefully she will warm up to the idea. Good Luck — Ray Fritz Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise! www.sdboats.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water.. My advise would be to keep her out of the launch/ retrieval process if possible. Some of the biggest fights I have witnessed are at the launch ramp. Once you have a few good days hopefully she will warm up to the idea. Good Luck — Ray Fritz Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise! www.sdboats.com

My wife is so much better at boat launching and retrieval than I am, that I would not consider doing either if she is along. She launches and retrieves the boat by herself frequently and does both perfectly 99% of the time. — Harry Krause EMAIL from newsgroup? Remove -nospam from return address – - – - – - – - – - "Honor" is more than just a word in the Scout oath.

Response:

I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Have you let your wife handle the boat at all or is she just a passenger? I recently purchased a 21ft Chris Craft I/O. I also own a small sailboat. Once my wife got her hands on the power boat’s controls she wouldn’t give them up. It’s no big deal to me, I like being a passenger on the power boat (I prefer sailing anyway).  Now she takes the power boat out by herself. Talk about  an excited wife, she’s having a blast this summer. If you haven’t let your wife "drive" the boat, let her. She may surprise you! Bob Clark

Response:

Hi, I’ve got about the same story (1968 Arrow Glass).  I found that by asking for help and getting her involved, she started looking forward to using the boat as much as I do. Having two more hands helped a lot in rewiring my trailer (I got her to read the directions and tell me what to do while I was on the ground).  Helping to fix stuff on board made her feels like she knows how things work and what needs to get done.  She’s secure in her ability to help, and she makes things go much more smoothly for me because I don’t have to direct. You know how there’s always some hot-head yelling at his wife because he’s frustrated that she can’t read his mind and do things exactly how he wants?  I work really hard not to be that guy. Hunter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the boating world, my Dad built us everything that would float – except for the time n money we should’ve bought a "real" boat.  I bought (bare with me) a 1969 Glaspar from a friend and now I can’t get my wife excited about it?  I bought it from a friend and for the price $1000.00 I figured it was a steal?  We have little ones and I would like to teach them to ski.  Any help would be appreciated.. Mr. Soon to be on the water..

Response: