Question:

To make a long story mercifully short, RST is looking for a person to do the accounting function….and at the end of the fiscal year get the tax forms (Fed and California) filled out ready for signature.

From a fully credentialed bean counter with a tax practice: You didn’t say whether out-of-state help is OK, but doing that for tax prep can be a bit problematic in general even for federal.  From my understanding of Kaliforneeah and their increasingly whimsical ways of regulating return preparers, I wouldn’t do it due no experience beyond a few nauseating CA returns and inability to spread my costs of compliance around to other CA clients, unless you want to pay for it. there are darned few that understand that all small airplanes aren’t yellow with a small bear painted on the side…somebody that speaks airplane and that understands the manufacturing environment.

There are some biz’ requiring specialized knowledge for the accountant, but not yours.  I do work for a genuine Part 145 instrument shop, but my knowledge in related matters has been worth no more than social chit-chat, for which you’ll never know whether you’re being billed.  And manufacturing is 2nd semester of Accounting 101 with later immersion in brain-frying perpetual cost and LIFO, for Pete’s sake! Important also for small business is someone with experience in IRS practice, because if nuthin’ much has happened yet, strange gov’t behaviour is only a matter of time ("Hear me now; believe me later!"). Just a few tips to help you find the right guy or gal. Fred F.

Response:

Jim, if you’re already using Quickbooks, the ONLY thing you need an accountant for is the year-end stuff.

With 39 years exp in accounting/tax, and believe me or not, I’ve seen nothing in QB or any such thing which can assure me the results are accurate beyond the math.  If a client has a good, basic understanding of accounting principles and variances in tax treatment, it may be safe to provide me with only financial statements for tax prep.  This may be your case, but it’s rare in small businesses, and too often they get just they pay for.  I normally counsel at least my one-time, thorough review of the work, with probable corrective advice to the person doing it so future years can meet my comfort level.  So much the better if you did that already. Fred F.

Response:

We don’t need a CPA necessarily, nor any investment advice.  What we need to do is to be able to send our bank statement every month along with the Quickbooks data and at the end of the fiscal year get the tax forms (Fed and

California) Jim, if you’re already using Quickbooks, the ONLY thing you need an accountant for is the year-end stuff. Monthly taxes (all flavors) are a breeze using QB. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Jay… Both Gail and I are working 12 to 14 hour days between the design bench, the production bench, the day to day paperwork, purchasing… Something had to be offloaded and the easiest thing to offload was the accounting part.  No, I don’t need any monthly taxes, but it would be nice to catch any errors in procedure prior to the year end stuff. It’s just like your hotel.  At SOME point you are going to be successful enough that both of you can’t do the front office stuff, the promo stuff, the supplies ordering, making beds, fixing plumbing, painting, and all the other day in and day out tasks without severe lack of sleep or sanity.  You have to offload SOMETHING, and it will probably be the maid service, or the plumbing, or something that is in fairly high supply and isn’t vital to your core mission of RUNNING the hotel, not fixing dripping faucets. Capiche? Jim shared these priceless pearls of wisdom: – We don’t need a CPA necessarily, nor any investment advice.  What we need -to do – is to be able to send our bank statement every month along with the -Quickbooks – data and at the end of the fiscal year get the tax forms (Fed and -California) – -Jim, if you’re already using Quickbooks, the ONLY thing you need an -accountant for is the year-end stuff. – -Monthly taxes (all flavors) are a breeze using QB. Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

I normally counsel at least my one-time, thorough review of the work, with probable corrective advice to the person doing it so future years can meet my comfort level.  So much the better if you did that already.

Yeah, each year my accountant (an aviation nut, by the way) either comes out and fixes all my previous year’s screw-ups, or gives me a list of things to change — or both.  The list grows shorter every year, but mistakes are made. It’s always arcane, stupid stuff, like how to figure depreciation on office equipment…nothing that can’t be fixed after the fact. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Sorry.  The answer to your question is that out of state help is just fine with me.  I have absolutely no idea of how Californicate regulates return preparers; I didn’t even know they were regulated. You are right; manufacturing accounting is the second semester of Accounting 101.  Similarly, transistor circuit design is the second semester of Engineering 101.  If that isn’t  your bent, more better you come to somebody like me who speaks Hfe (and hfe as well) and Miller capacitance as a second language.  It is far better to do what you do well and let somebody else do what they do well.  I have found that to be the optimal combination for preserving income — and that’s what I’m trying to do. Jim shared these priceless pearls of wisdom: – -From a fully credentialed bean counter with a tax practice: You didn’t -say whether out-of-state help is OK, but doing that for tax prep can -be a bit problematic in general even for federal.  From my -understanding of Kaliforneeah and their increasingly whimsical ways of -regulating return preparers, I wouldn’t do it due no experience beyond -a few nauseating CA returns and inability to spread my costs of -compliance around to other CA clients, unless you want to pay for it. Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

It’s just like your hotel.  At SOME point you are going to be successful enough that both of you can’t do the front office stuff, the promo stuff, the supplies ordering, making beds, fixing plumbing, painting, and all the other day in and day out tasks without severe lack of sleep or sanity.  You have to offload SOMETHING, and it will probably be the maid service, or the plumbing, or something that is in fairly high supply and isn’t vital to your core mission of RUNNING the hotel, not fixing dripping faucets.

Well, we’ve got three housekeepers, so we dumped THAT right away.   And I’ve got a handyman who knows how to fix ANYTHING, so I guess I’m set there, too.  I can do the simple stuff, but when it comes to drywall and plumbing, he’s Da Man. Accounting, however, is not something I want to farm out — and Quickbooks makes it almost easy.  I want my finger on the pulse of the place every, single day.  I want to know how we’re doing minute-to-minute, compared to last month, and last year.  It’s the only way I can make business decisions (I.E.: "Can we afford to re-landscape the front entrance?"  Answer: "Yes") with any sense of direction. It’s ironic, cuz my worst grade in college was "Accounting."  In fact, that one course convinced me to change my major from Business to Anything Else… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

To make a long story mercifully short, RST is looking for a person to do the accounting function.  While there are hundreds of thousands of beancounters in the area, there are darned few that understand that all small airplanes aren’t yellow with a small bear painted on the side {;-) We don’t need a CPA necessarily, nor any investment advice.  What we need to do is to be able to send our bank statement every month along with the Quickbooks data and at the end of the fiscal year get the tax forms (Fed and California) filled out ready for signature.  The whole thing can be done snailmail or electronically by scanning the statement into a file. It isn’t that big of a deal, but we’d like to form a permanent relationship with somebody that speaks airplane and that understands the manufacturing environment.  The best of all worlds would be a  homebuilder; that just enhances the odds of us finding a like kin that we can relate to. forward to hearing from you. Jim Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

Question:

Just a follow-up.  If a treaury stock account is used, it is presented separtely on the balance sheet.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are three ways of accounting for treasury stock: 1.  Cost Method:  The gross cost of the shares reacquired is charged to a contra-equity (treasury) stock. 2.  Par value method:  The treasury stock account is charged only for the par value of the shares reacquired.  Other paid in capital are debited in proportion to the amounts recognized upon the original issuance of the shares. 3.  Constructive retirement method:  Similiar to the par value method, except that the aggregate par value of the reacquired shares is charged to the stock account rather than to the treasury stock account. I’m fairly certain that most companies use the cost method, but I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong on this. Regards, Matt P., CPA In both Question: How do you treat Treasury Stock in the balance sheet? Do you list it separately and subtract it from Common Stock, or is it automatically deducted from Common Stock? Well, I am about to have my first MAJOR test in intermediate. I have read the chapters; done the instructor chapter work; and reworked some of the problems. I feel somewhat ready only because I know this test when I see it will probably KILL me. After all it is a test on APPLICATION not memorization. Which is something I have strived to do. Apply my knowledge not memorize everything. Two areas I think I will be hit hardest on is the Multi-step Income statement (you know, the order in which EI are to be listed.) and probably the balance sheet ie separating current liabilities from non-current liabilities, and current assets, long-term investments, ppe, intangibles, and other assets. Oh, and then there are the applicable "notes" to the balance sheet. Any suggestions or tips on making it easier to list these things correctly? TIA Janice —

Response:

There are three ways of accounting for treasury stock: 1.  Cost Method:  The gross cost of the shares reacquired is charged to a contra-equity (treasury) stock. 2.  Par value method:  The treasury stock account is charged only for the par value of the shares reacquired.  Other paid in capital are debited in proportion to the amounts recognized upon the original issuance of the shares. 3.  Constructive retirement method:  Similiar to the par value method, except that the aggregate par value of the reacquired shares is charged to the stock account rather than to the treasury stock account. I’m fairly certain that most companies use the cost method, but I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong on this. Regards, Matt P., CPA In both

Question: How do you treat Treasury Stock in the balance sheet? Do you list it separately and subtract it from Common Stock, or is it automatically deducted from Common Stock?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I am about to have my first MAJOR test in intermediate. I have read the chapters; done the instructor chapter work; and reworked some of the problems. I feel somewhat ready only because I know this test when I see it will probably KILL me. After all it is a test on APPLICATION not memorization. Which is something I have strived to do. Apply my knowledge not memorize everything. Two areas I think I will be hit hardest on is the Multi-step Income statement (you know, the order in which EI are to be listed.) and probably the balance sheet ie separating current liabilities from non-current liabilities, and current assets, long-term investments, ppe, intangibles, and other assets. Oh, and then there are the applicable "notes" to the balance sheet. Any suggestions or tips on making it easier to list these things correctly? TIA Janice —

Response:

Well, I am about to have my first MAJOR test in intermediate. I have read the chapters; done the instructor chapter work; and reworked some of the problems. I feel somewhat ready only because I know this test when I see it will probably KILL me. After all it is a test on APPLICATION not memorization. Which is something I have strived to do. Apply my knowledge not memorize everything. Two areas I think I will be hit hardest on is the Multi-step Income statement (you know, the order in which EI are to be listed.) and probably the balance sheet ie separating current liabilities from non-current liabilities, and current assets, long-term investments, ppe, intangibles, and other assets. Oh, and then there are the applicable "notes" to the balance sheet. Any suggestions or tips on making it easier to list these things correctly? TIA Janice

Response:

  Well, I am about to have my first MAJOR test in intermediate. I have read the chapters; done the instructor chapter work; and reworked some of the problems. I feel somewhat ready only because I know this test when I see it will probably KILL me. After all it is a test on APPLICATION not memorization. Which is something I have strived to do. Apply my knowledge not memorize everything. Two areas I think I will be hit hardest on is the Multi-step Income statement (you know, the order in which EI are to be listed.) and probably the balance sheet ie separating current liabilities from non-current liabilities, and current assets, long-term investments, ppe, intangibles, and other assets. Oh, and then there are the applicable "notes" to the balance sheet. Any suggestions or tips on making it easier to list these things correctly?   TIA   Janice   one suggestion – get a year-end annual report from a real company (preferably one you are familiar with or have worked for) and review those financial statements.

Response:

The following is enough to get you through the CPA exam.                 My Company      Multiple Step Income Statement   For the Year Ended December 31, 2003 Net Sales                               xx COGS                                   (xx)            Gross Margin                xxxx General and Administrative Expenses    (xx) Selling Expenses                       (xx) Depreciation Expense                   (xx) Other Expenses and Losses Interest Expense                       (xx) Loss on Sale of Fixed Assets           (xx) Revenues and Gains Interest Income                         xx Gain on Sale of Fixed Assets            xx         Income Before Unusual or         Infrequent items and Tax       xxxx Unusual and Infrequent Items GAIN (LOSS) on Marketable Securities    xx         Income Before Tax              xxxx             Tax Rate                    xx          Net Income After Tax          xxxx                                  My Company                                 Balance Sheet                            As of December 31, 2003 Assets:                              Liabilities and Stockholders’ Equity Current Assets:                      Current Liabilities: Cash                      xx         Accounts Payable                       xx Accounts Receivable       xx         Notes Payable                          xx Notes Receivable          xx         Salaries Payable                       xx Inventory                 xx         Interest Payable                       xx Trading Securities        xx         Tax Payable                            xx Prepaid Expense           xx         Unearned Revenue                       xx                                      Long Term Debt                         xx Investments:                                      Long Term Liabilities: Available for Sale Securities                xx         Bonds Payable                          xx Held to Maturity          xx         Deferred Income Tax Liablity           xx Property, Plant and                  Stckholders’ Equity: Equipment (Fixed Assets)                                      Capital Stock Land                      xx           Preferred Stock                      xx Building                  xx           Common Stock                         xx Eguipment                 xx         Additional Paid in Capital             xx Accumulated Depreciation (xx)        Retained Earnings                      xx                                      Other Comprehensive Income             xx Intangible Asstes:                   Treasury Stock                        (xx) Goodwill                  xx Patents                   xx Copyrights                xx Other Assets: Bond Issue Costs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I am about to have my first MAJOR test in intermediate. I have read the chapters; done the instructor chapter work; and reworked some of the problems. I feel somewhat ready only because I know this test when I see it will probably KILL me. After all it is a test on APPLICATION not memorization. Which is something I have strived to do. Apply my knowledge not memorize everything. Two areas I think I will be hit hardest on is the Multi-step Income statement (you know, the order in which EI are to be listed.) and probably the balance sheet ie separating current liabilities from non-current liabilities, and current assets, long-term investments, ppe, intangibles, and other assets. Oh, and then there are the applicable "notes" to the balance sheet. Any suggestions or tips on making it easier to list these things correctly? TIA Janice —

Response:

Question:

herbert_hagge…@yahoo.com (Michael Haggerty) wrote in message <news:b3lfgf219l7@enews4.newsguy.com>… > <snip> > >I don’t know *what* is up with my dad. I don’t think that I am > >even talking to him via email. I think someone has taken over his > >email account. Now I’ve gotta ask: is he okay with this, with someone > >*fucking with me* like this? If he *isn’t* okay with it, than why > >isn’t he *saying something about it*? *Is* he saying something > >about it? > Why don’t you call him and ask him?

I don’t have his telephone number and he has not given it to me. Yes, neither my sisters nor I have my father’s telephone number. I have given him mine, so he does have mine. He has not called me. > >My mother is continually – still – used as an attacker towards me. > >Sometimes she says shit that doesn’t even seem to be coming from her > >own consciousness, makes references to things that can’t have come > >from her own mind, really, using words that I can tell came from > >elsewhere. > >She now has started becoming friendly with my close male friend > >and roommate, who now will call her up when he thinks that I am > >acting weird. Oh, joy. I have told him that he needs to move out > >of my house. > Your mother sounds concerned about your mental health

She should be concerned about her own as well, but she doesn’t see that. > <snip> > >My older son is very stable and stands by me. My younger son adores > >me and I adore him. He is the baby everyone loves, although I know > >that the CIA/bitch and whatever their/her ‘management techniques’ > >are, would *dearly* love to get in the way of that with their/her > >antichrist tactics. > Now I am concerned about your mental health

Yeah, that’s the usual line, isn’t it? > <snip> > >Oh, the machine box around my head. It is so profitable and it works > >so well that no one really gives a fuck that what it actually does > >is kill the souls of those embedded within it. And we are never > >supposed to know what is happening, right? > hmmmm….

Wow. You’re a knowing one, aren’t you, big guy? If you don’t get it than you can stay away and not reply to any of my posts. Lisa Agnes Gardner

Response:

<snip> >I don’t know *what* is up with my dad. I don’t think that I am >even talking to him via email. I think someone has taken over his >email account. Now I’ve gotta ask: is he okay with this, with someone >*fucking with me* like this? If he *isn’t* okay with it, than why >isn’t he *saying something about it*? *Is* he saying something >about it?

Why don’t you call him and ask him? >My mother is continually – still – used as an attacker towards me. >Sometimes she says shit that doesn’t even seem to be coming from her >own consciousness, makes references to things that can’t have come >from her own mind, really, using words that I can tell came from >elsewhere. >She now has started becoming friendly with my close male friend >and roommate, who now will call her up when he thinks that I am >acting weird. Oh, joy. I have told him that he needs to move out >of my house.

Your mother sounds concerned about your mental health <snip> >My older son is very stable and stands by me. My younger son adores >me and I adore him. He is the baby everyone loves, although I know >that the CIA/bitch and whatever their/her ‘management techniques’ >are, would *dearly* love to get in the way of that with their/her >antichrist tactics.

Now I am concerned about your mental health <snip> >Oh, the machine box around my head. It is so profitable and it works >so well that no one really gives a fuck that what it actually does >is kill the souls of those embedded within it. And we are never >supposed to know what is happening, right?

hmmmm….

Response:

I normally don’t respond to cross-posted messages because I consider them spam.  In this case, I’ll make an exception – and you can easily look up my posting history on alt.support.sz if you have any questions. We all look from inside our head and cannot cut off that head.  When people do things that affect us, we have a natural tendency to see them as having been done with ourselves in mind.  In truth, those other people are doing them with *them*selves in mind, and probably don’t give their effect on us any thought.  But a person can take this natural human tendency to extremes and become convinced that absolutely everything that happens in the world has to do with them and only them. When their life is unhappy, they can conclude that all these various events happen in order to make them unhappy.  It’s a monstrous piece of presumption and a horrendous mistake.  Who says any of us is that important?!  The truth is, none of us *is* that important, that other people would waste all that energy trying to fuck us up.  I would be willing to bet that almost nobody you’ve named in your messages is truly doing things with the effect they have on you in their mind. The sad thing is that, as I know from experience, paranoia can generate synchronicities and eventually turn people against you.  Your roommate is starting to ally himself with your mother probably because you have driven him to it, and he either wants to help or wants to make his own situation tolerable. The ones I am really concerned about are your kids, because God only knows how your delusions are affecting their impressionable minds. I’ve never talked this way to anyone here.  You’re the first.  For the sake of your children, turn away from the feeling of power you get from believing that everything in the whole wide damned world is all about you.  Be harsh with yourself and think hard about which of the things you believe have which explanations.  If necessary, get help from either professionals or people who care about you – or at least accept help from those who offer it.  I know first-hand that that is the only way out. Qexugir – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lisa Gardner wrote: > "Ugly Bob" <ugly_bo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:E9e5a.176664$SD6.9230@sccrnsc03>… > > "Lisa Agnes Gardner" <lgardner112…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > news:D1e5a.13804$YU4.1184994@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > > "Ugly Bob" <ugly_bo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > news:9%d5a.179238$iG3.21250@sccrnsc02… > > > > "Lisa Agnes Gardner" <lgardner112…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > > > news:98d5a.13727$YU4.1176569@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > > > > "James Forrestal" <jvforres…@princeton.edu> wrote in message > > > > > news:3E547C44.CB82018D@arabnews.com… > > > > > > In a Quasi-Parallel Multiverse, in the dimmest > > > > > > recesses of ancient fore-history, there did > > > > > > manifest a powerful, quantum computing device, > > > > > > located at approximately 2/3rd radius along > > > > > > one arm of a spiral galaxy. A cosmological > > > > > > variation on the double slit experiment arose: > > > > > > How about running a near infinite number of > > > > > > simulataneous interdimensional ‘big bang’ > > > > > > simulations with infintesimal variations in > > > > > > each simulation to determine the most novel > > > > > > and long-lived, open-ended scenario of survival; > > > > > > thereby selecting the specific ‘history’ of this > > > > > > advantageous pathway over all other shorter- > > > > > > lived, ‘extinction’ pathways…? Could sporadic, > > > > > > sentient unhappiness and suffering throughout > > > > > > the successful pathway be entirely ruled out? > > > > > [...] > > > > > How about treating human beings like what they are: > > > > > human beings – *not* machines on which you can run > > > > > simulations endlessly and soul-killingly. > > > > > What would **really** help is hands on the shoulders, > > > > > hearts in sympathy, a few nice anc comforting words, and > > > > > things done *most assuredly* and *hand-to-hand* – that is, > > > > > in an honest way that does not involve making psychic slaves > > > > > of other human beings and desecrating their souls nightly > > > > > because ‘it works to get us what we want to do that’. > > > > > Governments who do such things are covertly fascist and > > > > > are on the brink of becoming overtly fascist. They are governments > > > > > in which the woman’s ‘mother’s sons were incensed with her’ and > > > > > in which the watchman bruise her and rend her garments. > > > > > Why? *Because doing so works to power the engines of industry*, > > > > > science, government, etc. and gives those in power a way to control > > > > > large amounts of people and to broadcast shit straight into their > > > > > minds even if they are in rapid retreat from popular culture, as am > > > > > I. > > > > > **Don’t you get it**? > > > > > **I am a human being – not an experiemental animal (not that I approve > >  of > > > > > experimentation on animals), I know what  you  and those like me are > >  doing > > > > > to me, I know how you are using me, and I believe that because you do > > > > > these things to me and to people like me, this culture in which we > >  live > >  is > > > > > *in grave danger* of going the way of sodom and gomorrah – that is, > > > > > exploding from a fission reaction of divisive hatred if those elements > >  that > > > > > are > > > > > holding back such a reaction and keeping it from reaching critical > >  mass, > > > > > desert it. This is what happened IMHO when Lot and his family left > > > > > sodom and gomorrah. > > > > > You and those like you will probably not believe anything like this > > > > > until it is way too late, will you? > > > > > Lisa Agnes Gardner > > > >  Mr. Forrestal has been dead almost fifty four years, Lisa. > > > > http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAforrestal.htm > > > > I think that it’s great that he posts here > > > Not if he uses me to do it, guy. > >  I believe he’s using Earthlink. > and what does this mean in terms of double speak? > who is my mother, and who is my father, in terms of the same? > who are my children? to you people: slots in my mindspace that ytou > can use to ‘manage’ me and to use me in several different ways? that > is desecration of my soul and of my being as a mother: my two > beloved children are flesh and blood humans that I bore into this > world with my own flesh and blood womb and have raised and have > nursed with my own flesh and blood breasts, *not* ‘children’ in > some spirituall fucked up, psychic ops ’secret agent’ sense of the > word. > this technique that is used is so spiritually abortive it makes > me want to throw up. And I am right in the middle of it unwittingly. > So is the rest of my family, but they don’t realize it and can > be easily moved around like billiard balls in my perception by > whoever it is that wants to move them around. > I seem to be the only one in my family who notices anything ‘weird’ > going on at all, even though communications in my family have been > pretty fucking *weird* lately. > I don’t know *what* is up with my dad. I don’t think that I am > even talking to him via email. I think someone has taken over his > email account. Now I’ve gotta ask: is he okay with this, with someone > *fucking with me* like this? If he *isn’t* okay with it, than why > isn’t he *saying something about it*? *Is* he saying something > about it? > My mother is continually – still – used as an attacker towards me. > Sometimes she says shit that doesn’t even seem to be coming from her > own consciousness, makes references to things that can’t have come > from her own mind, really, using words that I can tell came from > elsewhere. > She now has started becoming friendly with my close male friend > and roommate, who now will call her up when he thinks that I am > acting weird. Oh, joy. I have told him that he needs to move out > of my house. > My sisters don’t want to deal. They don’t see anything weird going > on. My brother in law I am not sure won’t sell me out (oh, just a little > bit now, just a little bit – Lisa will never notice, will she?) just > to get a connect with the ‘big time’. > My older son is very stable and stands by me. My younger son adores > me and I adore him. He is the baby everyone loves, although I know > that the CIA/bitch and whatever their/her ‘management techniques’ > are, would *dearly* love to get in the way of that with their/her > antichrist tactics. > I have a half brother – a baby my mom had and gave up for > adoption before she married my dad and I was born – but I don’t > know where he is, never have met him, and don’t know what he > may be going through right now. He is about six years older than me. > I would like to meet him, though. > So my family seems to be mostly oblivious to all of this shit that > is going on. I seem to be the only one who notices anything weird going > on. I seem to be marked out for extinction or severe beating (in a > way that no one except me can notice, of course) because of this. > Oh, the machine box around my head. It is so profitable and it works > so well that no one really gives a fuck that what it actually does > is kill the souls of those embedded within it. And we are never > supposed to know what is happening, right? > Tell me, bob, what do you guys usually do with women like me? Do > you aim for forced institutionalization, or jail time, or what? After > we have served our utility, what do you usually try to do with us? or > is it just a matter of trying for the long distance kill, or something > like this? > I don’t intend to be killed, long distance or otherwise. > I love my younger child (and the older one, but he is an adult now > and is capable of taking care of

… read more »

Response:

"RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> wrote in message

news:v5gj9rajfr2s6c@corp.supernews.com… > "greEn pLastiC girL" <gr…@plastic.com> wrote in message > news:3E57D7F6.5080404@plastic.com… > > hmm its not the penrose i know > > but he lives in japan and codes weird music applications > This is Roger Penrose (Cambridge, is it?) the mathematician who theorizes > that the human mind performs processes that are non-computable, in the > mathematical sense, and it is thus impossible, in principle, for anything > like a modern digital computer to ever achieve consciousness regardless of > size or complexity. > He argues that possibly the non-computable feats of the human mind are > performed by means of a quantum process utilized by the brain.

Sounds clever !

Response:

Cleaver of the MEAT variety? "Quantum Sleep" <post-your-repl…@thanks.net> wrote in message

news:b3avra$v8k$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk… "RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> wrote in message

news:v5gj9rajfr2s6c@corp.supernews.com… > "greEn pLastiC girL" <gr…@plastic.com> wrote in message > news:3E57D7F6.5080404@plastic.com… > > hmm its not the penrose i know > > but he lives in japan and codes weird music applications > This is Roger Penrose (Cambridge, is it?) the mathematician who theorizes > that the human mind performs processes that are non-computable, in the > mathematical sense, and it is thus impossible, in principle, for anything > like a modern digital computer to ever achieve consciousness regardless of > size or complexity. > He argues that possibly the non-computable feats of the human mind are > performed by means of a quantum process utilized by the brain.

Sounds clever !

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Quantum Sleep wrote: > "RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> wrote in message > news:v5gj9rajfr2s6c@corp.supernews.com… >>"greEn pLastiC girL" <gr…@plastic.com> wrote in message >>news:3E57D7F6.5080404@plastic.com… >>>hmm its not the penrose i know >>>but he lives in japan and codes weird music applications >>This is Roger Penrose (Cambridge, is it?) the mathematician who theorizes >>that the human mind performs processes that are non-computable, in the >>mathematical sense, and it is thus impossible, in principle, for anything >>like a modern digital computer to ever achieve consciousness regardless of >>size or complexity. >>He argues that possibly the non-computable feats of the human mind are >>performed by means of a quantum process utilized by the brain. > Sounds clever !

sounds pretty much spot on to me too thanx for the info m~ — cat /dev/sda1 > /dev/dsp

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Ugly Bob" <ugly_bo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:E9e5a.176664$SD6.9230@sccrnsc03>… > "Lisa Agnes Gardner" <lgardner112…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:D1e5a.13804$YU4.1184994@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > "Ugly Bob" <ugly_bo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:9%d5a.179238$iG3.21250@sccrnsc02… > > > "Lisa Agnes Gardner" <lgardner112…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > > news:98d5a.13727$YU4.1176569@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > > > "James Forrestal" <jvforres…@princeton.edu> wrote in message > > > > news:3E547C44.CB82018D@arabnews.com… > > > > > In a Quasi-Parallel Multiverse, in the dimmest > > > > > recesses of ancient fore-history, there did > > > > > manifest a powerful, quantum computing device, > > > > > located at approximately 2/3rd radius along > > > > > one arm of a spiral galaxy. A cosmological > > > > > variation on the double slit experiment arose: > > > > > How about running a near infinite number of > > > > > simulataneous interdimensional ‘big bang’ > > > > > simulations with infintesimal variations in > > > > > each simulation to determine the most novel > > > > > and long-lived, open-ended scenario of survival; > > > > > thereby selecting the specific ‘history’ of this > > > > > advantageous pathway over all other shorter- > > > > > lived, ‘extinction’ pathways…? Could sporadic, > > > > > sentient unhappiness and suffering throughout > > > > > the successful pathway be entirely ruled out? > > > > [...] > > > > How about treating human beings like what they are: > > > > human beings – *not* machines on which you can run > > > > simulations endlessly and soul-killingly. > > > > What would **really** help is hands on the shoulders, > > > > hearts in sympathy, a few nice anc comforting words, and > > > > things done *most assuredly* and *hand-to-hand* – that is, > > > > in an honest way that does not involve making psychic slaves > > > > of other human beings and desecrating their souls nightly > > > > because ‘it works to get us what we want to do that’. > > > > Governments who do such things are covertly fascist and > > > > are on the brink of becoming overtly fascist. They are governments > > > > in which the woman’s ‘mother’s sons were incensed with her’ and > > > > in which the watchman bruise her and rend her garments. > > > > Why? *Because doing so works to power the engines of industry*, > > > > science, government, etc. and gives those in power a way to control > > > > large amounts of people and to broadcast shit straight into their > > > > minds even if they are in rapid retreat from popular culture, as am > > > > I. > > > > **Don’t you get it**? > > > > **I am a human being – not an experiemental animal (not that I approve >  of > > > > experimentation on animals), I know what  you  and those like me are >  doing > > > > to me, I know how you are using me, and I believe that because you do > > > > these things to me and to people like me, this culture in which we >  live >  is > > > > *in grave danger* of going the way of sodom and gomorrah – that is, > > > > exploding from a fission reaction of divisive hatred if those elements >  that > > > > are > > > > holding back such a reaction and keeping it from reaching critical >  mass, > > > > desert it. This is what happened IMHO when Lot and his family left > > > > sodom and gomorrah. > > > > You and those like you will probably not believe anything like this > > > > until it is way too late, will you? > > > > Lisa Agnes Gardner > > >  Mr. Forrestal has been dead almost fifty four years, Lisa. > > > http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAforrestal.htm > > > I think that it’s great that he posts here > > Not if he uses me to do it, guy. >  I believe he’s using Earthlink.

and what does this mean in terms of double speak? who is my mother, and who is my father, in terms of the same? who are my children? to you people: slots in my mindspace that ytou can use to ‘manage’ me and to use me in several different ways? that is desecration of my soul and of my being as a mother: my two beloved children are flesh and blood humans that I bore into this world with my own flesh and blood womb and have raised and have nursed with my own flesh and blood breasts, *not* ‘children’ in some spirituall fucked up, psychic ops ’secret agent’ sense of the word. this technique that is used is so spiritually abortive it makes me want to throw up. And I am right in the middle of it unwittingly. So is the rest of my family, but they don’t realize it and can be easily moved around like billiard balls in my perception by whoever it is that wants to move them around. I seem to be the only one in my family who notices anything ‘weird’ going on at all, even though communications in my family have been pretty fucking *weird* lately. I don’t know *what* is up with my dad. I don’t think that I am even talking to him via email. I think someone has taken over his email account. Now I’ve gotta ask: is he okay with this, with someone *fucking with me* like this? If he *isn’t* okay with it, than why isn’t he *saying something about it*? *Is* he saying something about it? My mother is continually – still – used as an attacker towards me. Sometimes she says shit that doesn’t even seem to be coming from her own consciousness, makes references to things that can’t have come from her own mind, really, using words that I can tell came from elsewhere. She now has started becoming friendly with my close male friend and roommate, who now will call her up when he thinks that I am acting weird. Oh, joy. I have told him that he needs to move out of my house. My sisters don’t want to deal. They don’t see anything weird going on. My brother in law I am not sure won’t sell me out (oh, just a little bit now, just a little bit – Lisa will never notice, will she?) just to get a connect with the ‘big time’. My older son is very stable and stands by me. My younger son adores me and I adore him. He is the baby everyone loves, although I know that the CIA/bitch and whatever their/her ‘management techniques’ are, would *dearly* love to get in the way of that with their/her antichrist tactics. I have a half brother – a baby my mom had and gave up for adoption before she married my dad and I was born – but I don’t know where he is, never have met him, and don’t know what he may be going through right now. He is about six years older than me. I would like to meet him, though. So my family seems to be mostly oblivious to all of this shit that is going on. I seem to be the only one who notices anything weird going on. I seem to be marked out for extinction or severe beating (in a way that no one except me can notice, of course) because of this. Oh, the machine box around my head. It is so profitable and it works so well that no one really gives a fuck that what it actually does is kill the souls of those embedded within it. And we are never supposed to know what is happening, right? Tell me, bob, what do you guys usually do with women like me? Do you aim for forced institutionalization, or jail time, or what? After we have served our utility, what do you usually try to do with us? or is it just a matter of trying for the long distance kill, or something like this? I don’t intend to be killed, long distance or otherwise. I love my younger child (and the older one, but he is an adult now and is capable of taking care of himself) and will try my hardest not to committ suicide out of complete despair and fatigue. I don’t intend to allow you to use this machine you have built over my consciousness without *fighting you people all of the way*. I don’t intend to shut up. I don’t intend to let you easily ‘manage’ or ‘ride’ me. I intend to become able to dissemble the machine around me so that you cannot use it anymore. It is either this or allow the machine to tear me apart, because that is what this machine of yours is designed to do: tear me apart. That is how it works – by fission power upon my life and my soul. It is an ugly thing – I guess it is used because it works so well. Still, I cannot figure out why anyone would think it was okay to use another person like this. Huh. Perhaps they don’t really give a shit *who* the thing fucks up, just as long as it works? This is why I believe what I do about what is going on in this country and what is going on in the CIA, etc.: it is a direct result of the way I have been treated and what I have experienced, and the lack of honesty and straighforwardness that I have felt has been used in ‘dealing’ with me. I am a human being, not some ’simulated american’ or some experimental animal. Not that I think animal experimenation is okay, I detest it and would see it all stop right now if I could, despite the effect that would have on the economy. You tell me that the cats I love need to get mutilatef so that maybelline can make a better lipstick and I will not like you very much. deal with me honestly and with caring and I might start to have more faith that you are honest and that you care. that’s not for you personally, bob, but just for certain organizations I think you are associated with… or anyone from any of the ‘guilty parties’ who happens to read this. Lisa Agnes Gardner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >and I hope he’ll be > > > feeling better soon. You too, Lisa. > > Well, that is interesting. I myself am quite alive… unbelievably > > enough, after what has happened to me in the last eight years. > > Lisa Agnes Gardner

Response:

The science of consciousness (and it’s disorders) may indeed turn out to be phyics if we are quantum comupters as some have postulated (penrose, I believe, I am to lazy to look it up) In article <v5dkc3p6i4e…@corp.supernews.com>, ronscottspaml…@uia.net says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Henrietta K. Thomas" <hk…@earthlink.net> wrote in message >news:k5cb5vob2sfc08pc1680mfgsgnf8oij35e@4ax.com… >> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:31:31 -0800, "RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> >> wrote: >> >"Indrid Cold" <indridc…@op.net> wrote in message >> >news:3E5475A6.E42EB480@parliament.uk… >> >> Schizoaffective Disorder >> >>   American Description >> >>   Diagnostic Criteria >> >> A. An uninterrupted period of illness >> >>  during which, at some time, there is >> >>   either (1) a Major Depressive Episode, >> >>    (2) a Manic Episode, or (3) a Mixed >> >>     Episode concurrent with symptoms that >> >>      meet (4) Criterion A for Schizophrenia. >> >> http://www.nami.org/helpline/schizoaffective.htm >> >As Rutherford said, "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." >> And which of these applies to this particular case? >The reference is meant to indicate that real science is ultimately physics; >all the lesser disciplines (psychiatry in this case) merely catalog, >describe and classify phenomena. >Thus Ingrid has compared Lisa to some particular "stamp". >It was an expression of my elitist attitudes. >RonQ

Response:

hmm its not the penrose i know but he lives in japan and codes weird music applications – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michael Haggerty wrote: > The science of consciousness (and it’s disorders) may indeed turn out to be > phyics if we are quantum comupters as some have postulated (penrose, I believe, > I am to lazy to look it up) > In article <v5dkc3p6i4e…@corp.supernews.com>, ronscottspaml…@uia.net > says… >>"Henrietta K. Thomas" <hk…@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>news:k5cb5vob2sfc08pc1680mfgsgnf8oij35e@4ax.com… >>>On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:31:31 -0800, "RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> >>>wrote: >>>>"Indrid Cold" <indridc…@op.net> wrote in message >>>>news:3E5475A6.E42EB480@parliament.uk… >>>>>Schizoaffective Disorder >>>>>  American Description >>>>>  Diagnostic Criteria >>>>>A. An uninterrupted period of illness >>>>> during which, at some time, there is >>>>>  either (1) a Major Depressive Episode, >>>>>   (2) a Manic Episode, or (3) a Mixed >>>>>    Episode concurrent with symptoms that >>>>>     meet (4) Criterion A for Schizophrenia. >>>>>http://www.nami.org/helpline/schizoaffective.htm >>>>As Rutherford said, "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." >>>And which of these applies to this particular case? >>The reference is meant to indicate that real science is ultimately physics; >>all the lesser disciplines (psychiatry in this case) merely catalog, >>describe and classify phenomena. >>Thus Ingrid has compared Lisa to some particular "stamp". >>It was an expression of my elitist attitudes. >>RonQ

– cat /dev/sda1 > /dev/dsp

Response:

"greEn pLastiC girL" <gr…@plastic.com> wrote in message news:3E57D7F6.5080404@plastic.com… > hmm its not the penrose i know > but he lives in japan and codes weird music applications

This is Roger Penrose (Cambridge, is it?) the mathematician who theorizes that the human mind performs processes that are non-computable, in the mathematical sense, and it is thus impossible, in principle, for anything like a modern digital computer to ever achieve consciousness regardless of size or complexity. He argues that possibly the non-computable feats of the human mind are performed by means of a quantum process utilized by the brain. RonQ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Michael Haggerty wrote: > > The science of consciousness (and it’s disorders) may indeed turn out to be > > phyics if we are quantum comupters as some have postulated (penrose, I believe, > > I am to lazy to look it up) > > In article <v5dkc3p6i4e…@corp.supernews.com>, ronscottspaml…@uia.net > > says… > >>"Henrietta K. Thomas" <hk…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > >>news:k5cb5vob2sfc08pc1680mfgsgnf8oij35e@4ax.com… > >>>On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:31:31 -0800, "RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> > >>>wrote: > >>>>"Indrid Cold" <indridc…@op.net> wrote in message > >>>>news:3E5475A6.E42EB480@parliament.uk… > >>>>>Schizoaffective Disorder > >>>>>  American Description > >>>>>  Diagnostic Criteria > >>>>>A. An uninterrupted period of illness > >>>>> during which, at some time, there is > >>>>>  either (1) a Major Depressive Episode, > >>>>>   (2) a Manic Episode, or (3) a Mixed > >>>>>    Episode concurrent with symptoms that > >>>>>     meet (4) Criterion A for Schizophrenia. > >>>>>http://www.nami.org/helpline/schizoaffective.htm > >>>>As Rutherford said, "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." > >>>And which of these applies to this particular case? > >>The reference is meant to indicate that real science is ultimately physics; > >>all the lesser disciplines (psychiatry in this case) merely catalog, > >>describe and classify phenomena. > >>Thus Ingrid has compared Lisa to some particular "stamp". > >>It was an expression of my elitist attitudes. > >>RonQ > — > cat /dev/sda1 > /dev/dsp

Response:

"James Forrestal" <jvforres…@princeton.edu> wrote in message

news:3E5589DD.52D07E73@DoD.Gov…  <snip> > The F22 Raptor > http://www.af.mil/lib/airpower/airpower_specs.shtml

 <snip> The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. http://www.vectorsite.net/avf35.html

Response:

Died 54 years ago. Perhaps it was the say you killed your very first cat and so were accepted into the ranks of the nazi socialists (who were by then calling themselves something else)? Or maybe you just approved of programs that involved killing cats, who were by then women of a certain type, but no one was supposed to know that, eh? What the fuck do you think the old nazi initiation ritual was about, anyway? ‘killing a cat’ – hey, if you can do that you can be led to do worse, eh? ‘killing the soul’. Split apart the elements of solomon’s seal so that you can better control the deep, right? That is what it is all about… that is the big nazi scheme. Kill those cats. Lisa Agnes Gardner

Response:

"Henrietta K. Thomas" <hk…@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:k5cb5vob2sfc08pc1680mfgsgnf8oij35e@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:31:31 -0800, "RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> > wrote: > >"Indrid Cold" <indridc…@op.net> wrote in message > >news:3E5475A6.E42EB480@parliament.uk… > >> Schizoaffective Disorder > >>   American Description > >>   Diagnostic Criteria > >> A. An uninterrupted period of illness > >>  during which, at some time, there is > >>   either (1) a Major Depressive Episode, > >>    (2) a Manic Episode, or (3) a Mixed > >>     Episode concurrent with symptoms that > >>      meet (4) Criterion A for Schizophrenia. > >> http://www.nami.org/helpline/schizoaffective.htm > >As Rutherford said, "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." > And which of these applies to this particular case?

The reference is meant to indicate that real science is ultimately physics; all the lesser disciplines (psychiatry in this case) merely catalog, describe and classify phenomena. Thus Ingrid has compared Lisa to some particular "stamp". It was an expression of my elitist attitudes. RonQ

Response:

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:31:31 -0800, "RonQ" <ronscottspaml…@uia.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Indrid Cold" <indridc…@op.net> wrote in message >news:3E5475A6.E42EB480@parliament.uk… >> Schizoaffective Disorder >>   American Description >>   Diagnostic Criteria >> A. An uninterrupted period of illness >>  during which, at some time, there is >>   either (1) a Major Depressive Episode, >>    (2) a Manic Episode, or (3) a Mixed >>     Episode concurrent with symptoms that >>      meet (4) Criterion A for Schizophrenia. >> http://www.nami.org/helpline/schizoaffective.htm >As Rutherford said, "All science is either physics or stamp collecting."

And which of these applies to this particular case?

Response:

"Indrid Cold" <indridc…@op.net> wrote in message

news:3E5475A6.E42EB480@parliament.uk… > Schizoaffective Disorder >   American Description >   Diagnostic Criteria > A. An uninterrupted period of illness >  during which, at some time, there is >   either (1) a Major Depressive Episode, >    (2) a Manic Episode, or (3) a Mixed >     Episode concurrent with symptoms that >      meet (4) Criterion A for Schizophrenia. > http://www.nami.org/helpline/schizoaffective.htm

As Rutherford said, "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." RonQ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ugly Bob wrote: > "Lisa Agnes Gardner" <lgardner112…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:D1e5a.13804$YU4.1184994@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > "Ugly Bob" <ugly_bo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:9%d5a.179238$iG3.21250@sccrnsc02… > > > "Lisa Agnes Gardner" <lgardner112…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > > news:98d5a.13727$YU4.1176569@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > > > "James Forrestal" <jvforres…@princeton.edu> wrote in message > > > > news:3E547C44.CB82018D@arabnews.com… > > > > > In a Quasi-Parallel Multiverse, in the dimmest > > > > > recesses of ancient fore-history, there did > > > > > manifest a powerful, quantum computing device, > > > > > located at approximately 2/3rd radius along > > > > > one arm of a spiral galaxy. A cosmological > > > > > variation on the double slit experiment arose: > > > > > How about running a near infinite number of > > > > > simulataneous interdimensional ‘big bang’ > > > > > simulations with infintesimal variations in > > > > > each simulation to determine the most novel > > > > > and long-lived, open-ended scenario of survival; > > > > > thereby selecting the specific ‘history’ of this > > > > > advantageous pathway over all other shorter- > > > > > lived, ‘extinction’ pathways…? Could sporadic, > > > > > sentient unhappiness and suffering throughout > > > > > the successful pathway be entirely ruled out? > > > > [...] > > > > How about treating human beings like what they are: > > > > human beings – *not* machines on which you can run > > > > simulations endlessly and soul-killingly. > > > > What would **really** help is hands on the shoulders, > > > > hearts in sympathy, a few nice anc comforting words, and > > > > things done *most assuredly* and *hand-to-hand* – that is, > > > > in an honest way that does not involve making psychic slaves > > > > of other human beings and desecrating their souls nightly > > > > because ‘it works to get us what we want to do that’. > > > > Governments who do such things are covertly fascist and > > > > are on the brink of becoming overtly fascist. They are governments > > > > in which the woman’s ‘mother’s sons were incensed with her’ and > > > > in which the watchman bruise her and rend her garments. > > > > Why? *Because doing so works to power the engines of industry*, > > > > science, government, etc. and gives those in power a way to control > > > > large amounts of people and to broadcast shit straight into their > > > > minds even if they are in rapid retreat from popular culture, as am > > > > I. > > >  Mr. Forrestal has been dead almost fifty four years, Lisa. > > > http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAforrestal.htm

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Allan, Do you have any idea what type of software ATB is? If you did then your plug would sound as senseless to you as it does to me. Yes, it is the Advanced Time & Billing software. As BS/1 has a Time Billing module (see http://www.dbsonline.com/time.htm ), then it may be of help to the original poster. Even if that part is not helpful, there are many software developers (see http://www.dbsonline.com/customization.htm ) who have made customisation to BS/1 accounting software, and therefore may be able to offer Kenneth some options.

Sorry, but you do not win the prize. ATB stands for "Accountants Trial Balance". ATB is very special vertical market software used primarily by Accountants in public practice. It has nothing to do with Time and Billing. The original poster did state that the vendor was Creative Solutions therefore ATB can only be the software I mentioned above. By the way I used ATB for over 15 years before switching/upgrading to Creative Solution’s "Trial Balance Solution". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter

Response:

Allan, Do you have any idea what type of software ATB is? If you did then your plug would sound as senseless to you as it does to me.

Yes, it is the Advanced Time & Billing software. As BS/1 has a Time Billing module (see http://www.dbsonline.com/time.htm ), then it may be of help to the original poster. Even if that part is not helpful, there are many software developers (see http://www.dbsonline.com/customization.htm ) who have made customisation to BS/1 accounting software, and therefore may be able to offer Kenneth some options. Peter

Response:

Hi Kenneth, I have been using ATB software for years. Now that Creative Solutions (the current owner) is no longer supporting the product, its time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have a recommendation ?

Take a look at BS/1 (http://www.dbsonline.com/ ) . There are versions to suit individual needs, Small Business, Professional and Enterprise. Also, ther is a free version at present, see http://www.dbsonline.com/download/index.html BS/1 Enterprise with Manufacturing 2.44 – Accounting, Distribution and Manufacturing Software Download – Free! (not eligible for free updates) or free update for Win 95/98/Me/NT/2000/XP I need to import from Quickbooks and do consolidations.

I don’t _think_ the .IIF data, that is exported from QB, always represents ALL of the data in the QB database. Often, there are detailed transactions missing (I think, only my understanding though). I can possibly advise you about exporting all of the QB data. Peter

Response:

Hi Kenneth, I have been using ATB software for years. Now that Creative Solutions (the current owner) is no longer supporting the product, its time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have a recommendation ? Take a look at BS/1 (http://www.dbsonline.com/ ) . There are versions to suit individual needs, Small Business, Professional and Enterprise. Also, ther is a free version at present, see http://www.dbsonline.com/download/index.html

Peter, Do you have any idea what type of software ATB is? If you did then your plug would sound as senseless to you as it does to me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BS/1 Enterprise with Manufacturing 2.44 – Accounting, Distribution and Manufacturing Software Download – Free! (not eligible for free updates) or free update for Win 95/98/Me/NT/2000/XP I need to import from Quickbooks and do consolidations. I don’t _think_ the .IIF data, that is exported from QB, always represents ALL of the data in the QB database. Often, there are detailed transactions missing (I think, only my understanding though). I can possibly advise you about exporting all of the QB data. Peter

Response:

I have been using ATB software for years. Now that Creative Solutions (the current owner) is no longer supporting the product, its time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have a recommendation ? I need to import from Quickbooks and do consolidations. Thanks

Response:

Try Access Your Biz(tm) accounting. See web-site below. Call me for more information (or e-mail). 631.724.9400, x11 It does consolidations and it is typically used for upgrading Quick Books customers — Scott N. Weber, MCP http://www.AccessYourBiz.Com Customizable Accounting Software Written with Microsoft Access

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been using ATB software for years. Now that Creative Solutions (the current owner) is no longer supporting the product, its time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have a recommendation ? I need to import from Quickbooks and do consolidations. Thanks

Response:

I am also phasing out to ATB. I created an Excel workbook with a sheets for trial balance, BS, PL, Cash and some footnote stuff. I use the SUMIF function to group like accounts (e.g. 5 cash accounts to one F/S line). Lots of flexibility and low cost.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been using ATB software for years. Now that Creative Solutions (the current owner) is no longer supporting the product, its time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have a recommendation ? I need to import from Quickbooks and do consolidations. Thanks

Response:

I have been using ATB software for years. Now that Creative Solutions (the current owner) is no longer supporting the product, its time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have a recommendation ?

Why not stay with Creative Solutions? I’m sure they will offer you a substantial discount as a former ATB user (I  got one when I switched to their Trial Balance Solution) and their current windows software is excellent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to import from Quickbooks and do consolidations. Thanks

Response:

Question:

I can personally attest to a situation where $5000 worth of repairs were made to a customer’s piece of equipment. They paid with Amex. With no documentaion beyond a letter stating that they disputed the charges and a copy of the invoice, they had the charges reversed and we never saw that money again. I call that keeping the merchandise! And apparently this happens quite often – thank heavens more customers don’t know about it! Experience taught us that Amex was more customer oriented than Visa/MC, but we found from other service companies that they were almost as bad. Well, maybe I do have a lot more to learn about chargebacks.

    Yes.   In your case, the chargeback went to the CC company,     who took it from PayPal, and you want PayPal to "eat" it —     when the CC company didn’t?     I can’t remember – have you ever had your own merchant     account?     The main reason chargebacks are easily done by online     customers is because the credit card is not physically     present, there’s no signature (or chance to match), and     they’re traditionally riskier.     If you check any standard CC mechant agreement, you’ll     see verbage that explains that transactions where the     credit card is not present (telephone, online, etc) are     riskier to the merchant.   The merchant is usually also     charged a higher percentage on such transactions, than     if they ran a credit card through a card reader and got     approval (and a signature match). It would seem very odd to me that AMEX would pull back $5000 without giving the service provider/merchant a chance to present their case.

    That’s exactly what happens.   The customer complains,     the merchant gets a chargeback immediately as part of     the CC’s consumer protection policies — as well as a lengthy     letter informing them of their rights, what action they have     already taken/will take, etc.   My merchant account     specified that I could fight the chargeback, but had to     present (lots of) documentation within 30 days.   I only     had 2 chargebacks in 7 years, but the merchant *does*     have to fight it because you’ll lose your merchant     account if you have a record of "standing" chargebacks. Kris

Response:

I’ll bet you that they will come after you for that $200.  I was luck since my buyer just PayPal the money back and brought my balance back to zero, minus the transaction fee that PayPal refuses to reimburse.  I told them

Well so far they haven’t "automatically" taken the $200 out of my credit card or checking account on file.  As of now the "buyer" has disappeared and of course has never returned the digital camera. Paypal now claims to have "held" their money (although still shows as a $500 debit to me in the crooks favor). At least Ebay has suspended this buyer (and his wife, a sort of crooked tag team) so they have actually done more than paypal regarding this incident (these people ripped off a few others it looks like).

Response:

My balance is -$200 now (I had +$300 and the chargeback was $500) so I’m hoping they don’t automatically take it out of my checking account, credit card etc.  I don’t want to give them a cent more until I at least get this camera back and can see what damage the buyer did to it (if any).  Although I am doubting that this person will even send the camera back!

I’ll bet you that they will come after you for that $200.  I was luck since my buyer just PayPal the money back and brought my balance back to zero, minus the transaction fee that PayPal refuses to reimburse.  I told them that they were lucky that the buyer is honest or you will be taking me to court to get the money.  I will cheerfully go to court to fight these parasites.  The best thing I did was never to get verified or that money would have been pulled from my account in a split second.  I really hope that PayPal does this to more of their high dollar sellers so they loose them like they lost me.  Good luck. Rita

Response:

As an ex-office manager for a small service business, I found out the hard way – the credit card companies listen more to the buyer than the seller. All a customer had to do to reverse a charge was contact Visa, Mastercard, or Amex and dispute a charge and !hey presto! the money was withdrawn from

Well I think my main gripe with Paypal’s policy (other than it being transient and changing direction like the wind) is that they penalize you for stuff that you have no control over; e.g. I never actually RECEIVE a customer’s credit card # for verification of #, exp date, address etc.  However they pass on the chargebacks & penalties to you with little to no recourse other than a spurious "Seller Protection Policy" which is useless when you get right down to it.

Response:

There are a number of outstanding law suits against PP, you may want to jump on one of those too.

Well my main priority is to fight this fraudulent buyer and then add in Paypal as an accessory to the crime (which it basically was).  I guess with publically-traded companies such as Paypal & Enron it’s time to keep my money under the mattress!

Response:

You had the same false sense of security as I did.  Like I told them, ‘I did everything right and I’m being punished.’  Why is that?  Well, they lost me as a customer.  I’m really glad that they showed me the type of low life crooks they are.  Now I am PayPal free and loving it.

There’s just no logic involved with them either; e.g. refunding the whole auction price when they know I had sent $50 as a partial refund for the memory card she claimed was broken.  So much for being a nice guy.  Oh well, at least I don’t have to rely on this to make a living.  I guess it’s too bad that many "dealers" are too happy to just eat the Paypal/customer chargebacks because of the "great convenience" it provides. My balance is -$200 now (I had +$300 and the chargeback was $500) so I’m hoping they don’t automatically take it out of my checking account, credit card etc.  I don’t want to give them a cent more until I at least get this camera back and can see what damage the buyer did to it (if any).  Although I am doubting that this person will even send the camera back!

Response:

    Talk to an attorney, give them all the information     including copies of all emails (including complete     headers).   Have them write a letter to the company

Hi, thanks for all the details you provided on fighting this fraudulent buyer & paypal.  I am definitely going to keep at it.  It’s not that I am destitute with the $1000+ loss via Paypal (I’m just a hobbyist and not a "dealer) but it’s more a matter of principle.   Plus I am just furious that Paypal has this spurious, ever-changing "seller protection policy" which is basically useless. From reading this group last month (when the chargeback started, only 3 mths from the buyer receiving the camera) I sort of figured that even with all my documentation etc it would go against me based on Paypal’s wimpiness.  But for a firm like that to be publicly traded etc is just ridiculous.  The Enron of Internet payments I guess!

Response:

PS — The odd thing is that all along I was supposedly covered by the "Seller Protection Policy" since my case followed everything; e.g. shipped to the confirmed address, easily verifiable tracking # etc. Then all of a sudden they must have retroactively changed the "policy" (such as it is) to "no protection for the seller if the buyer claims it was damaged."  I’m not sure what to do now, mail fraud?  The buyer did it through their company/employee email system so can I get them involved? PPS — I love the value of the "feedback" system — I have 500 on Ebay, 100 on paypal, and this user has about 3 on both but of course the "customer is always right" even if a crook!

There are a number of outstanding law suits against PP, you may want to jump on one of those too. MartyM www.upstatecomputer.com

Response:

Ack!  I just had the exact same thing sent to me at the same time!  In my case a buyer received a digital camera from my ebay auction FOUR MONTHS AGO!  She complained about the 8MB memory card not working (value ~$20) and because I have never had troubles in 500 auctions I took her word for it and in fact refunded $50 via Paypal for her time and trouble.  Well lo-and-behold months later she does a chargeback; Paypal dilly-dallies a month and I get the same email you got about "other than fraudulent funds or false claims of non-receipt."

Don’t you just love it?  There is no reason for this bullshit.  Like I told PayPal, do the math and see what type of seller you are screwing over.  I have made them a large sum of money for doing nothing and this is the thanks I get?  I wasn’t asking them to take my side, I wanted them to be fair. So I’m out the camera, the $500 cash, plus the $50 refund since Paypal was stupid enough to refund the entire auction price even though they can plainly see (from my response to their chargeback "request for info") that I paid back via their own damn service!  So I’m out a grand and the buyer is continuing to lie (claiming she sent the camera back before but I "refused shipment" which is absurd; and I asked for the tracking # for this and she shut up).  Paypal blows; in fact I’m so disgusted with the whole thing after this I may just go back to money orders from now on.

I’m sorry to hear that.  In my case, the buyer was honest and wanted to refund the money, but PayPal wouldn’t let him without taking their cut.  So both of us screwed around with PayPal playing by their rules only to be screwed.  As for money orders, I like taking them as well as company and personal checks.  I feel that you are a hell of a lot safer with paper going through the USPS. PS — The odd thing is that all along I was supposedly covered by the "Seller Protection Policy" since my case followed everything; e.g. shipped to the confirmed address, easily verifiable tracking # etc. Then all of a sudden they must have retroactively changed the "policy" (such as it is) to "no protection for the seller if the buyer claims it was damaged."  I’m not sure what to do now, mail fraud?  The buyer did it through their company/employee email system so can I get them involved?

You had the same false sense of security as I did.  Like I told them, ‘I did everything right and I’m being punished.’  Why is that?  Well, they lost me as a customer.  I’m really glad that they showed me the type of low life crooks they are.  Now I am PayPal free and loving it. Rita – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PPS — I love the value of the "feedback" system — I have 500 on Ebay, 100 on paypal, and this user has about 3 on both but of course the "customer is always right" even if a crook!

Response:

Carl Christensen wrote (snip) I’m not sure what to do now, mail fraud?  The buyer did it through their company/employee email system so can I get them involved?

    Talk to an attorney, give them all the information     including copies of all emails (including complete     headers).   Have them write a letter to the company     that basically says "my client has been defrauded     by your employee, using your company’s email     system".     Make sure you give the attorney a "bullet" (or     "point") paper, laying out the facts in simple     one-line sentences:     1.  On (date), (email address) paid me $xxx for auction xxxx         via PayPal     2.  On (date), I shipped the item.     3.  On (date), four months later, I was notified that the          memory card did not work.     4.  On (date), I sent (email address) $50 to replace     the $20 item.     5.  On (date), (email address) initiated a CC chargeback     for $xxx.     6.  I am now out the camera, the $50, and another     $xxx due to the chargeback.     7.   Total losses:  $xxx You have to do it this way, in order that the attorney can summarize the events accurately.  You can’t do a long- winded narrative.  Make it easy for the attorney, and it won’t cost you much. Kris     4.  On (date), I ref – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -PPS — I love the value of the "feedback" system — I have 500 on Ebay, 100 on paypal, and this user has about 3 on both but of course the "customer is always right" even if a crook!

Response:

"The transaction was reversed because our seller protection policy does not cover sellers from receiving chargebacks against anything other than fraudulent funds or false claims of non-receipt of

Ack!  I just had the exact same thing sent to me at the same time!  In my case a buyer received a digital camera from my ebay auction FOUR MONTHS AGO!  She complained about the 8MB memory card not working (value ~$20) and because I have never had troubles in 500 auctions I took her word for it and in fact refunded $50 via Paypal for her time and trouble.  Well lo-and-behold months later she does a chargeback; Paypal dilly-dallies a month and I get the same email you got about "other than fraudulent funds or false claims of non-receipt." So I’m out the camera, the $500 cash, plus the $50 refund since Paypal was stupid enough to refund the entire auction price even though they can plainly see (from my response to their chargeback "request for info") that I paid back via their own damn service!  So I’m out a grand and the buyer is continuing to lie (claiming she sent the camera back before but I "refused shipment" which is absurd; and I asked for the tracking # for this and she shut up).  Paypal blows; in fact I’m so disgusted with the whole thing after this I may just go back to money orders from now on. PS — The odd thing is that all along I was supposedly covered by the "Seller Protection Policy" since my case followed everything; e.g. shipped to the confirmed address, easily verifiable tracking # etc. Then all of a sudden they must have retroactively changed the "policy" (such as it is) to "no protection for the seller if the buyer claims it was damaged."  I’m not sure what to do now, mail fraud?  The buyer did it through their company/employee email system so can I get them involved? PPS — I love the value of the "feedback" system — I have 500 on Ebay, 100 on paypal, and this user has about 3 on both but of course the "customer is always right" even if a crook!

Response:

I can personally attest to a situation where $5000 worth of repairs were made to a customer’s piece of equipment. They paid with Amex. With no documentaion beyond a letter stating that they disputed the charges and a copy of the invoice, they had the charges reversed and we never saw that money again. I call that keeping the merchandise!

I don’t know what happened on the merchant end, but several years ago when I purchased an item from a catalogue that failed to arrive, my Visa company du jour (I think it was Citibank) did a chargeback on my say-so, no waiting, no forms that I can recall, just a request that I should notify them and the merchant if it ever did turn up.  Obviously there’s no way I or they could differentiate that from my receiving the item and pretending I hadn’t. If somebody here has actually worked in a credit-card company they might have more light to shed.  But my guess is that it’s not worth it to them to investigate on a lot of chargebacks–that they’ll probably be able to keep both the merchant and the customer, and that chargebacks are often cheaper than the investigation (I *think*, on a recent chargeback, they didn’t actually "chargeback" but just plunked the small amount into my account from their own coffers). The other complicating factor is that ease of chargeback is one reason why customers like buying things with credit cards, and if companies changed that credit cards would quite possibly become less popular as a mail-order/net-business tool.  Which would shrink customer bases (and, on eBay, prices) as a consequence, leaving the merchants damaged that way instead. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

    Yes.   In your case, the chargeback went to the CC company,     who took it from PayPal, and you want PayPal to "eat" it —     when the CC company didn’t?

On the contrary, I don’t want PayPal to eat the chargeback, nor do I expect them to.  What I wanted from PayPal is to be treated fair, impartial, professionally, honestly, and with a little bit of dignity thrown in for good measure.  I hope I’m not expecting too much from them?  They were expected to do their part and present my case to the credit card company, they didn’t.  Nor did they listen to a cooperating buyer.     I can’t remember – have you ever had your own merchant     account?

Just got it.     The main reason chargebacks are easily done by online     customers is because the credit card is not physically     present, there’s no signature (or chance to match), and     they’re traditionally riskier.

Agreed.     If you check any standard CC mechant agreement, you’ll     see verbage that explains that transactions where the     credit card is not present (telephone, online, etc) are     riskier to the merchant.   The merchant is usually also     charged a higher percentage on such transactions, than     if they ran a credit card through a card reader and got     approval (and a signature match).

That is correct. It would seem very odd to me that AMEX would pull back $5000 without giving the service provider/merchant a chance to present their case.     That’s exactly what happens.   The customer complains,     the merchant gets a chargeback immediately as part of     the CC’s consumer protection policies — as well as a lengthy     letter informing them of their rights, what action they have     already taken/will take, etc.   My merchant account     specified that I could fight the chargeback, but had to     present (lots of) documentation within 30 days.   I only     had 2 chargebacks in 7 years, but the merchant *does*     have to fight it because you’ll lose your merchant     account if you have a record of "standing" chargebacks.

Exactly, this is my point.  PayPal, as my representative, should be fighting the credit card company on my behalf with the evidence that I provided to them.  It took me three weeks to get a fax number from them so that I can provide the hard documentation that I had concerning this matter.  In the 30+ days I was not allowed to talk to anyone in the chargeback department, nor were any of my request to have an investigator call back honored. PayPal claims that they do all the work for you when a chargeback occurs, but I haven’t seen them demonstrate this yet.  You know why?  Because passing the chargeback on the seller is easier and less time consuming.  My problem isn’t with the chargeback or the fact that it happened, it’s with the lack of service PayPal provided when dealing with my case.  I have no problem if someone files a chargeback because they were defrauded in some way.  I think that the buyer should be made to feel comfortable with online transactions. My case was cut and dry.  The buyer was refunded his money two weeks prior to the charegback showing up on my account.  He canceled the chargeback immediately after receiving his refund.  He sent e-mail to PayPal stating that the chargeback had been long canceled.  I had a buyer who wanted to return my money without me incurring anymore fees, but PayPal refused and said that it is a separate transaction and will be charge the appropriate fees.  Here is a buyer cooperating and PayPal refusing to assist him. In all of this, PayPal made their cut three times on my money.  Bottome line, PayPal will make money no matter what. Rita

Response:

   If you check any standard CC mechant agreement, you’ll    see verbage that explains that transactions where the    credit card is not present (telephone, online, etc) are    riskier to the merchant.   The merchant is usually also    charged a higher percentage on such transactions, than    if they ran a credit card through a card reader and got    approval (and a signature match).

I had a credit card for awhile that would require an additional verification step if such a transaction was made in a different country from the user.  Unfortunately, it wasn’t very clear about that step, so it left me with several baffled and annoyed British booksellers .  And sent me off to a new credit card. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PayPal is not a credit card company. Hi Rita Welcome to the world of being a merchant! Thanks.  I’m not totally new to this, but I have a lot to learn. As an ex-office manager for a small service business, I found out the hard way – the credit card companies listen more to the buyer than the seller. All a customer had to do to reverse a charge was contact Visa, Mastercard, or Amex and dispute a charge and !hey presto! the money was withdrawn from out company account. This would immediately come off the credit card users billing (no doubt they hadn’t paid it yet). We then had to fight long and hard to get it back. Agreed, and I have no problem with this.  At least you had the luxury to fight and present your case.  You had a glimmer of hope that you may be paid or get your merchandise back.  I didn’t have this luxury with PayPal.  I went trough the motions of presenting my case long after the verdict was in. My fait was sealed with PayPal long before I even made this transaction with the customer.  I don’t know what credit card company, other than PayPal, would refund the buyer’s money and let them keep the merchandise.

I can personally attest to a situation where $5000 worth of repairs were made to a customer’s piece of equipment. They paid with Amex. With no documentaion beyond a letter stating that they disputed the charges and a copy of the invoice, they had the charges reversed and we never saw that money again. I call that keeping the merchandise! And apparently this happens quite often – thank heavens more customers don’t know about it! Experience taught us that Amex was more customer oriented than Visa/MC, but we found from other service companies that they were almost as bad. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So it would seem to me that instead of PayPal acting as a "bad guy", they are following the industry standard. I tend to disagree with you when you say that they are following the industry standard.  If they are, then the whole industry needs reforming. This incident has opened my eyes and I have done a lot of research that proves that they have set their own standard.  I’m not siding with the credit card companies, as I know they all can be ruthless and resort to underhanded tactics.  I think PayPal is so far disassociated from a credit card company that they feel they are above the law.  Most credit card companies, the legitimate ones, are backed by a large financial institution (bank) and have to hold a slightly higher standard, which makes them slightly more accountable for their actions. You, as an ex-office manager should know that PayPal is not following the industry standard.  I guess the big question for me to ask you.  Have you ever gone through the chargeback process with PayPal?  If so, was it for a reasonable sum, $500+? Was the customer service representatives knowledgeable and cooperative?  Was it completed to your satisfaction? How would you compare it with the chargeback you went through with your merchants account? Believe me, I felt the same way that you do.  It can’t happen to me. Well it did.  Now I believe some of the horror stories out here now.

Did I say it couldn’t happen to me? I think not. And I think my company’s loss of $5000 is a wee bit more than $500+. I stand behind my feeling that they are all the same Good luck to one and all! Thanks, Rita

And yes, copper, I’m well aware PayPal is not a credit card company OB

Response:

I can personally attest to a situation where $5000 worth of repairs were made to a customer’s piece of equipment. They paid with Amex. With no documentaion beyond a letter stating that they disputed the charges and a copy of the invoice, they had the charges reversed and we never saw that money again. I call that keeping the merchandise! And apparently this happens quite often – thank heavens more customers don’t know about it! Experience taught us that Amex was more customer oriented than Visa/MC, but we found from other service companies that they were almost as bad.

Well, maybe I do have a lot more to learn about chargebacks.  It would seem very odd to me that AMEX would pull back $5000 without giving the service provider/merchant a chance to present their case.  Not that I doubt you, I feel there is more behind this story than meets the eye.  Maybe the service provider has a reputation of providing poor service and a long history of chargebacks?  Still, they would still be given ample time and chance to dispute. I have a friend who purchased two high-end computer monitors that were not a described, different model than advertised and used instead of new.  This was pre-ebay days.  He purchased them on his American Express card.  I can attest that he went through hell to get his money back.  Filling out forms, fighting about whom is responsible for shipping.  Long story short, he finally did get his money refund ONLY after he provided proof of shipping the merchandise back.  This whole ordeal seemed to last about six months or more.  So, Amex may be the easiest card to do a chargeback on, but there are still lots of hoops the holder has to jump through. Did I say it couldn’t happen to me? I think not. And I think my companies loss of $5000 is a wee bit more than $500+. I stand behind my feeling that they are all the same

Understand.  I was using the $500+ for a base figure were most business would eat the chargeback and not fight it.  As I said above, I think there is more behind the story.  Maybe service provided and merchandise fall into two separate categories and are treated differently when a chargeback occurs? No, I still feel that PayPal and legitimate card companies are not the same. I still have to ask if you have experienced a chargeback first hand using PayPal?  This is what I’m trying to find out and compare the two. If all CC companies ARE truly the same, I mean compared with PayPal’s evasive phone support, underhanded tactics, not providing information that would benefit your case if outside legal action is required, and not being accountable for their actions we are all in trouble. And yes, copper, I’m well aware PayPal is not a credit card company

I think that he may be directing that at me?  And I do realize that they are not a credit card company, always did.  Thank God. Rita

Response:

PayPal is not a credit card company.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Rita Welcome to the world of being a merchant! Thanks.  I’m not totally new to this, but I have a lot to learn. As an ex-office manager for a small service business, I found out the hard way – the credit card companies listen more to the buyer than the seller. All a customer had to do to reverse a charge was contact Visa, Mastercard, or Amex and dispute a charge and !hey presto! the money was withdrawn from out company account. This would immediately come off the credit card users billing (no doubt they hadn’t paid it yet). We then had to fight long and hard to get it back. Agreed, and I have no problem with this.  At least you had the luxury to fight and present your case.  You had a glimmer of hope that you may be paid or get your merchandise back.  I didn’t have this luxury with PayPal.  I went trough the motions of presenting my case long after the verdict was in. My fait was sealed with PayPal long before I even made this transaction with the customer.  I don’t know what credit card company, other than PayPal, would refund the buyer’s money and let them keep the merchandise. So it would seem to me that instead of PayPal acting as a "bad guy", they are following the industry standard. I tend to disagree with you when you say that they are following the industry standard.  If they are, then the whole industry needs reforming. This incident has opened my eyes and I have done a lot of research that proves that they have set their own standard.  I’m not siding with the credit card companies, as I know they all can be ruthless and resort to underhanded tactics.  I think PayPal is so far disassociated from a credit card company that they feel they are above the law.  Most credit card companies, the legitimate ones, are backed by a large financial institution (bank) and have to hold a slightly higher standard, which makes them slightly more accountable for their actions. You, as an ex-office manager should know that PayPal is not following the industry standard.  I guess the big question for me to ask you.  Have you ever gone through the chargeback process with PayPal?  If so, was it for a reasonable sum, $500+? Was the customer service representatives knowledgeable and cooperative?  Was it completed to your satisfaction? How would you compare it with the chargeback you went through with your merchants account? Believe me, I felt the same way that you do.  It can’t happen to me.  Well it did.  Now I believe some of the horror stories out here now. Good luck to one and all! Thanks, Rita

Response:

snip What this means is that a buyer can claim anything he likes to initiate a chargeback and get a refund from PayPal and keep the merchandise.  Another words, PayPal is saying that the seller is on his own when it comes to recovering his funds and/or merchandise.

Hi Rita Welcome to the world of being a merchant! As an ex-office manager for a small service business, I found out the hard way – the credit card companies listen more to the buyer than the seller. All a customer had to do to reverse a charge was contact Visa, Mastercard, or Amex and dispute a charge and !hey presto! the money was withdrawn from out company account. This would immediately come off the credit card users billing (no doubt they hadn’t paid it yet). We then had to fight long and hard to get it back. So it would seem to me that instead of PayPal acting as a "bad guy", they are following the industry standard. Good luck to one and all! MB

Response:

Hi Rita Welcome to the world of being a merchant!

Thanks.  I’m not totally new to this, but I have a lot to learn. As an ex-office manager for a small service business, I found out the hard way – the credit card companies listen more to the buyer than the seller. All a customer had to do to reverse a charge was contact Visa, Mastercard, or Amex and dispute a charge and !hey presto! the money was withdrawn from out company account. This would immediately come off the credit card users billing (no doubt they hadn’t paid it yet). We then had to fight long and hard to get it back.

Agreed, and I have no problem with this.  At least you had the luxury to fight and present your case.  You had a glimmer of hope that you may be paid or get your merchandise back.  I didn’t have this luxury with PayPal.  I went trough the motions of presenting my case long after the verdict was in. My fait was sealed with PayPal long before I even made this transaction with the customer.  I don’t know what credit card company, other than PayPal, would refund the buyer’s money and let them keep the merchandise. So it would seem to me that instead of PayPal acting as a "bad guy", they are following the industry standard.

I tend to disagree with you when you say that they are following the industry standard.  If they are, then the whole industry needs reforming. This incident has opened my eyes and I have done a lot of research that proves that they have set their own standard.  I’m not siding with the credit card companies, as I know they all can be ruthless and resort to underhanded tactics.  I think PayPal is so far disassociated from a credit card company that they feel they are above the law.  Most credit card companies, the legitimate ones, are backed by a large financial institution (bank) and have to hold a slightly higher standard, which makes them slightly more accountable for their actions. You, as an ex-office manager should know that PayPal is not following the industry standard.  I guess the big question for me to ask you.  Have you ever gone through the chargeback process with PayPal?  If so, was it for a reasonable sum, $500+? Was the customer service representatives knowledgeable and cooperative?  Was it completed to your satisfaction?  How would you compare it with the chargeback you went through with your merchants account? Believe me, I felt the same way that you do.  It can’t happen to me.  Well it did.  Now I believe some of the horror stories out here now. Good luck to one and all!

Thanks, Rita

Response:

Well, my chargeback is finally complete and I just received the verdict. After many hours of trying to get help from PayPal

Question:

I wish I were able to handle my situation as healthily as you are.  I have a lot of overlap in my situation as well and I have this urge to make her admit that I was a good husband and that she was restless and uncommitted.  (I never actually act this out, but it’s how I feel.) She never communicated that she had issues with our relationship either and I had to keep asking her what the heck was going on because everything came to a screeching halt the last month of our marriage (sex, communicating, holding hands, going out, everything just stopped). She blamed me for everything when all along (well, at the end) she was just sleeping around with someone else.  She actually said the reason she was leaving me was because I made fun of her liking Disco.  Stupid and gullible as I am, I began blaming myself for being verbally abusive because a couple times I almost vomited when she played K.C. & the Sunshine Band in the house.  Is that sad or what?  It took me months to realize that I actually was a good guy and a committed, caring husband.  I’ll never let someone get me to hate myself again, so I’ve learned that at least. I am inspired by people like you, Janie, Rog, and Rodric who have such a healthy attitude towards these issues and hope to make myself better. Hang in there Kay! Rob — "In an interstellar burst, I’m back to save the universe!" Radiohead/Airbag

Response:

"The most effective way to silence our guilty conscience is to convince ourselves and others that those we have sinned against are indeed depraved creatures, deserving every punishment, even extermination.  We cannot pity those we have wronged, nor can we be indifferent toward them. We must hate and persecute them or else leave the door open to self-contempt."  – Eric Hoffer

Barbara, that is a wonderful quote.  It made my day! — "In an interstellar burst, I’m back to save the universe!" Radiohead/Airbag

Response:

I hate divorce!  I really don’t understand why people give up so easily.  I was a fool and believed "for better or for worse".

Welcome to Club Naive!  I was the same way.  There are people out there willing to work on a relationship as they should, but we were unlucky enough to find those who weren’t. Take care, Rob — "In an interstellar burst, I’m back to save the universe!" Radiohead/Airbag

Response:

five cars????? Oh, sorry…segue…. yeah, isn’t it something how they can find someone else so fast????  That’s the part I still find unsettling six months later.  women seem to need (in general) to process things longer… so sorry he blames you, but I don’t know that you can do anything about that.  Work on ignoring what he thinks.  Truly.   think of him as like the tides, or the sunrise…out of your control, and benign. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Steve Love the "fluffy" image! Yep, the reality of the situation for me is not comparable to his "unreality" world and I guess it never will be. I cannot do anything about his feelings for me and perhaps its time I stopped caring. Often wondered: If two people are talking and one says something to the other, but the other does not hear, did that person REALLY say anything???? He has told me recently that he stopped communicating with me because he couldn’t talk to me (if that’s not pure Irish-speak). This, of course, was my fault. I see communication as being each person’s own responsibility – if you cannot communicate with your partner you must resolve this, not simply hold your hands up, give up, and try talking to others instead. I recall countless occassions where we’d have conversations and then later he’d deny ever hearing me say what I did. Got me wondering whether I really did say it sometimes but then I snapped out of being manipulated that way and came to the conclusion that he had the problem of not listening, and not me of not telling. This is, I believe, the start of my marriage problems. When I began to see him as a fallable human being and not the God-like creature of loveliness that could do no wrong….. Even so, I still kept on trying. And trying. And trying. Bet it winds him up a treat to hear me say "I forgive you and wish you well" – there is no better extinguisher of hate than a bit of good ol’ fashioned love and peace. Thanks for the support Steve! Kay However, WHY WHY WHY does he still continue to blame ME for the relationship ending?? He claims he was never happy. That I was horrible to him for years. That I bitched on and on at him. This has helped to get it out of my system, and maybe I do really know why he blames me (its the self-guilt I hear you all shouting) but I just wanted to share my story with you and elicit some gratuitous sympathy and/or helpful advice. See, at the very least I am honest and upfront! Much Oblidged to ya Kay Ok, some gratuitous sympathy …. well maybe not since your situation is all too common and it hurts. But as to your question, what are his choices ? He can say "she was great, wonderful every thing I wanted, good mom, etc etc till I met fluffy. I think fluffy is better so I dumped my wife and broke up our home" OR he can say "She was a bitch, I was never happy, always complaining. It got so bad I just had to leave. I met fluffy, never knew someone could be so right". If you were him, which would you choose to say, if you could put reality aside ? Steve

Response:

Hi Barb Great quote! I do find myself fantasising sometimes that he phones me to apologise for being so mean to me, and that he acknowledges there were many times/years in the marriage when we were idyllically happy together, but that he changed what he wanted in life and I no longer fitted in. That I am OK and he is OK – we are/were just not OK together. Ain’t that the real truth? And then I wake up….and it seems less important to me than what I have to do that day/week/month. I find I am wanting this as a priority less and less as events progress. Probably, as you, this turning point will come (for him) when it means so little to me. However, given the extent to which he would need to grow as a person in order to get from where he is to where he would need to be, I think I would probably warmly welcome his apology, congratulate him for progressing as a mature individual, and, for the sake of our daughter, see if we can establish a closer friendship which is based on mutual respect. After all, one cannot respect themselves or others if one carries around so much guilt and hatred . Many Thanks Kay

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kay, I actually think I got the quote below from someone on this news group.  I’m certain the historical context is something more devastating than divorce.  Still, something about this resonated with my own divorce experience: "The most effective way to silence our guilty conscience is to convince ourselves and others that those we have sinned against are indeed depraved creatures, deserving every punishment, even extermination.  We cannot pity those we have wronged, nor can we be indifferent toward them. We must hate and persecute them or else leave the door open to self-contempt."  – Eric Hoffer By the way, the last few years of my marriage my ex blamed me for all our problems, in hateful and ugly language.  Once I was no longer subjected to this on a regular basis, it became clear that he was doing a lot of projecting.  Like you, I eventually forgave everyone (including myself) and moved on. In most cases, that might be The End.  But there came a time when my ex, who was going through a very rough period with the "other woman," apologized for his treatment of me.  I no longer needed to hear it — still, it felt good to know that he could acknowlege the wrongness of what he’d done and feel pain over it. Barb Hi – my first post (my first divorce too). My story is probably very common, and although I’ve struggled to come to terms with the events as they occur, hindsight has given me (and continues to give) a wiser and more philosophical perspective. Relationship started: Oct 1991 Married: Sept 1993 Separated: Feb 2001 Children: 1, 8yrs Assets: Loads – 1 house, 1 flat, timeshare, private company, loans, 5 cars, plus the usual marital chitlins Husband (it is he): unhappy for at least 12 months, grumpy, sulky, secretative and argumentative. Wife (I am she): committed, desperate to communicate (with hubby), accommodating (pushover?!) We agreed to split because he was making it sooooo obvious he didn’t want to spent time with me. He was working away from home, coming back weekdays and bitching on at me at weekends for not doing this, that, etc. I of course was also working full time and looking after our 8 yr old daughter, the house, the cat, etc. Both professionals, long hours, stress jobs. A WEEK after we agreed to split/separate (there is a difference, at least I believe we understood that word to mean different things), he starts a relationship with another girl. Within the next month or so, they are looking around for somewhere else to live, eventually moving in to rented flat in June 2001. They are still together. She is 13 years his junior, and only 15 yrs older than my daughter. Me – left to sort out practical matters. Left to tell child about split on my own. Joint bank account – he got. I setup new account. He pays mortgage, joint loan repayments and school fees, I pay all domestic bills – sucks all my salary to do this, am left with

Question:

Hi, i am about to start college, and am leaning to getting my MAcc and eventually my CPA.  I would like to know what sort of jobs are available to CPA and what sort of money you make..Thanks a lot

Response:

So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years.

… eventually my CPA.  I would like to know what sort of jobs are available to CPA and what sort of money you make..Thanks a lot

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *  Retired, but always willing to consider a good job offer.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years. —– Original Message —– So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years.

I know the feeling well.  3.0 grade average from a well accredited school. Finally started my own practice.  Things are slow (my accounting is a heck of a lot better than my marketing), but I’m getting a chance to prove my abilities.  Haven’t gone up for the CPA yet.  Florida is a five-year state, and bucks ran out when I got my degree.  However, I am working on EA, CMA, and will go for CPA when I can complete the education requirements. Meanwhile, I’m working really hard on building a niche doing accounting for small legal practices. — Chris Anton, A&A Management Accounting, Inc.

Response:

I think what you are doing is about the only solution left for most graduates.  Problem is, you have to do a tax prep based business to for it to work, and I really hate doing taxes.  (For me the strain of doing something I dislike as much as I do tax practice would put me in a stress situation.) If your really committed to your path, a tax based practice, I have the address of a marketing fellow.  You might like his program or you might not.  If you like, e-mail me and I will send you his address, phone number, and my take on what his marketing plan is. Regards – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years. —– Original Message —– So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years. I know the feeling well.  3.0 grade average from a well accredited school. Finally started my own practice.  Things are slow (my accounting is a heck of a lot better than my marketing), but I’m getting a chance to prove my abilities.  Haven’t gone up for the CPA yet.  Florida is a five-year state, and bucks ran out when I got my degree.  However, I am working on EA, CMA, and will go for CPA when I can complete the education requirements. Meanwhile, I’m working really hard on building a niche doing accounting for small legal practices. — Chris Anton, A&A Management Accounting, Inc.

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *  Retired, but always willing to consider a good job offer.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

You might consider the Federal or State Government.  I worked for both before switching to the Oil Industry–which is not what it used to be. There is always room for tax auditors.  After you get some kind of job, you can keep applying for a better one. Also, if you start at a low salary, you can often move up to higher jobs. Probably less competition for the higher jobs with companies that pay less to new employees. A big help would be high grades in college and passing the CPA test as soon as you are elegible to take it. ==

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, i am about to start college, and am leaning to getting my MAcc and eventually my CPA.  I would like to know what sort of jobs are available to CPA and what sort of money you make..Thanks a lot

Response:

You guys are pretty depressing.   I am a CPA and have had a great career so far, have been a CPA for two years and have been in practice for 4.  I graduated from a so so university with okay grades – I worked hard at getting recruited and got several offers from the Big Five – I have been with E&Y for four years now and have transferred to London where I currently work on transations – (acquisitons, disposals, flotations, etc.)  Since I have started working upon graduation, my salary has literally doubled from $30k to around $70k in four years.  Of course that is slightly distorted as I am earning a British salary and cost of living is higher here, but for what I do, I would expect to be paid around $65k for back in the states. If practice is not for you, there are plenty of Opps in industry.

Response:

Anecdote:   When I graduated from college in 1977, at the time I was 31 years of age, various CPA firm recruiters came to our school.  I signed up for the interview with Arthur Young, one of the old Big 8 firms.  When I walked into the interview the partner (or principal) doing the interview went ballistic.  He spent twenty minutes berating me for wasting his time and repeatedly telling me I had no place in accounting.  Then he jumped on the College placement office people for letting these "old people" waste his time by signing up for the interviews.  To their credit the school told him he could shove it, everyone who signed got an interview regardless of race, gender, religion, age, or any other non relative prejudice that they could come up with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are pretty depressing. I am a CPA and have had a great career so far, have been a CPA for two years and have been in practice for 4.  I graduated from a so so university with okay grades – I worked hard at getting recruited and got several offers from the Big Five – I have been with E&Y for four years now and have transferred to London where I currently work on transations – (acquisitons, disposals, flotations, etc.)  Since I have started working upon graduation, my salary has literally doubled from $30k to around $70k in four years.  Of course that is slightly distorted as I am earning a British salary and cost of living is higher here, but for what I do, I would expect to be paid around $65k for back in the states. If practice is not for you, there are plenty of Opps in industry.

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * * Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Question:

Dawn, It sounds like you need to bring Jane to the next hubby tuneup workshop! JK Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Another strange phenomenon is that if Husband 1.0 is infected by a virus the whole system crashes, whereas if program wife 1.0 gets infected it still functions, although associated files such as dinner.exe might run slower! Mimo Smober 3 months 1 week 2 day  8 hours 25 mins 14 secs  saved

Question:

THIS IS A SORT OF AD, But no for some big company, just a programmer with a great product. The product, bethBen Solutions Datamanager, runs on Win 95/98/NT systems.

Okay!  This is sort of an ad in response to your "ad" but not really …. I am interested in a "report generator" for a system I have developed. Please see "InterActive Cash Accounting for the Internet" at … Test Site: http://www.foxall.com/betatest – Web Utilities – Bookkeeping or at either of the following two URLs … Main WebSite:  http://www.foxall.com   Dedictated:  http://www.foxall.com/interbooks … for an overview of the system. The system produces an encoded – anonymous – data file that needs to be manipulated B4 client accountant can use (contact by Email for details) …. More importantly – the system would benefit from a ReptGen that could retrieve data from local disk & produce reports for printing/downloading over the Web.  Can your’s do that??  If so do you have a Unix/Linux version that will operate within a fully secure environment?? Thx Ric Foxall

Response:

THIS IS A SORT OF AD, But no for some big company, just a programmer with a great product. I write accounting software in a Unix environment. I got sick of the "report generator" system provided by the language developer. Since most of my clients use Windows on work stations and the system on Unix, I developed a very powerful, very fast, very easy to use Report Generator and Data Query system. The product, bethBen Solutions Datamanager, runs on Win 95/98/NT systems. It conncects to just about every accounting program and/or database in existance (with the exception of those that use basic binary files). Many natively, but the others through ODBC. It provides full visual design on query, multi-table access to data, drag and drop filtering, WYSIWYG Page Layout- allowing incorporation of graphs, pictures and data. It creates mailing labels and inventory labels from over 150 pre-defined formats. It is blinding fast and requires about 30 minutes to learn how to operate. It exports data to various formats and even creates encrypted Electronic Reports for distribution over e-mail or the internet. And best of all, I’m selling it for $75. If you are interested, contact me at or see the not so great but soon to be upgraded webpage at: http://home1.gte.net/bethben/bethben.htm (I write great software, but stink at web pages) Thanks, Regina and Dave

Response:

Question:

Hello all: I am a senior at Boston College majoring in Accounting.  I am currently enrolled in a class called Technology and Culture. The class doesn’t just deal with technology in the computer sense but any and all techgnologies that affect society. I am in the process of researching Tai Chi as an alternative medicine.  I was wondering if anyone could giver me some information or tell me the best way to find it. I need to know a little history and some of the postives and negatives that it might have on Western Society. Any info would be appreciated.

Response:

: Hello all: : I am a senior at Boston College majoring in Accounting.  I am currently : enrolled in a class called Technology and Culture. The class doesn’t : just deal with technology in the computer sense but any and all : techgnologies that affect society. I am in the process of researching : Tai Chi as an alternative medicine.  I was wondering if anyone could : giver me some information or tell me the best way to find it. I need to : know a little history and some of the postives and negatives that it : might have on Western Society. : Any info would be appreciated. Try the following website for some good info: http://home.earthlink.net/~twk/ — [ Any similarities between my opinions and my employers' is purely coincidental (IMHO)...]

Response:

Jeff, Try calling 1-419-832-0268 ask for Sue.  She is a Tai Chi instructor, she instructed me.  She will know good books about Tai Chi and can probably answer some questions you might have about it.   —

Response: