Question:

Thanks!  Yeah.  We were still married December 31 of 2003. Yeah.  What a dink.  My x-husband wanted us to stay married until March just so we could file as married.  I’m all ‘No thanks.  I have no desire to cheat the IRS.’ I question if we can do it, how am I even supposed to sign the paperwork? I’m in Canada and him in the US.  I don’t suppose that occured to him. Yeah.  As if.  That would require him to use his brain.

US and Canada share tax info (in cases like this) and have a treaty about same. If you are even slightly squeamish about tackling this on your own I would suggest you seek tax advice and/or service from a pro… It may be $30.00-$50.00 well spent! Ask around and make sure they understand US and Canadian tax laws. I was lucky in that when I was married to an American she did not have landed status so she was classed as a visitor and was employed in the US… so we filled individually in our separate countries. John

Response:

I just emailed my x-husband about income tax crap.  He promised me some money you see when he gets his return. Anyways, he says we should file together because we were married in 2003.  Is that right?

If you file jointly since you were married, the refund check should be made out to BOTH of you.  So if you don;t sign it, he’d have to forge it to cash it.  Seems like you’d have a little leverage there.   "Sure, former dear, hand me 1/2 the check in cash and I’ll sign it over to you."

Response:

I would suggest you seek tax advice and/or service from a pro… It may be $30.00-$50.00 well spent!

$30 or $50? Dream on, dude. Best – Fido, CPA

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I think he was thinking about those fake tax accountants at H&R Block. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would suggest you seek tax advice and/or service from a pro… It may be $30.00-$50.00 well spent! $30 or $50? Dream on, dude. Best – Fido, CPA

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If you file jointly since you were married, the refund check should be made out to BOTH of you.  So if you don’t sign it, he’d have to forge it to cash it.  <snip

… which is not unheard of.  She could charge him, but the money is already gone. But these days, he need not forge anything.  All he needs to do is use his bank’s routing and account # for a direct deposit.  The IRS won’t know its not a joint account & nothing’s forged.  I suggest that she get a promissory note from him for the part of the refund that she is due.  [Rog']

Response:

I would suggest you seek tax advice and/or service from a pro… It may be $30.00-$50.00 well spent! $30 or $50? Dream on, dude.

I can have mine done for $35.00, my parents have both theirs done for $50.00 (they have use the same accountant for years). Maybe it costs more elsewhere, I can only go by what I know… John

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Good call.  I will do that.  I don’t even know if he will agree to giving me half of the tax return but if he wants me to go to this trouble then he had better.  Besides he owes me money anyways so I’m due damnit.  Grrrrrr. Playin’  :-) I don’t have any reason to believe that he wouldn’t screw me over because he has been good about the money stuff so far.  On the other hand, this is the same man who swore to be with me forever and lasted eleven months.  Oh yeah, and said ‘I swear that I will never hurt you Karen.’  Ummm…yeah.  Damn right I will get a promissory note. Thanks all! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But these days, he need not forge anything.  All he needs to do is use his bank’s routing and account # for a direct deposit.  The IRS won’t know its not a joint account & nothing’s forged.  I suggest that she get a promissory note from him for the part of the refund that she is due.  [Rog']

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I was planning to file separately but married. Why not do that? Joe MB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks!  Yeah.  We were still married December 31 of 2003. Yeah.  What a dink.  My x-husband wanted us to stay married until March just so we could file as married.  I’m all ‘No thanks.  I have no desire to cheat the IRS.’ I question if we can do it, how am I even supposed to sign the paperwork? I’m in Canada and him in the US.  I don’t suppose that occured to him. Yeah.  As if.  That would require him to use his brain. Peace Do not sign a tax return with him if you know it is false. You can file separately even if you are married. I am not sure if you are even allowed to file jointly if yo are divorced, but in any case, stay clear of the IRS wrath and file only honest tax returns, preferably without anyone who may be cheating on a joint return. i

Response:

I was planning to file separately but married. Why not do that?

1.  Becuz you have it backwards… its "married filing separately"     (according to the IRS). 2.  The tax burden on those filing jointly is usually lower.  [Rog']

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It might be worth it–when she says "I need you to do my taxes again this year as always" I can say "Oh, I already filed." Hell no I ain’t above it! –Joe Micro – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was planning to file separately but married. Why not do that? 1.  Becuz you have it backwards… its "married filing separately"     (according to the IRS). 2.  The tax burden on those filing jointly is usually lower.  [Rog']

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I was planning to file separately but married. Why not do that? 1.  Becuz you have it backwards… its "married filing separately"     (according to the IRS). 2.  The tax burden on those filing jointly is usually lower.  [Rog']

The first year after we were separated my ex (the tax writer) handed my stuff back on April 14th with the news that I would have to file separately. Filing jointly, we would get a $2,000 refund. Filing separate, she got $3,000 back and I owed $5,000.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was planning to file separately but married. Why not do that? 1.  Becuz you have it backwards… its "married filing separately"     (according to the IRS). 2.  The tax burden on those filing jointly is usually lower.  [Rog'] The first year after we were separated my ex (the tax writer) handed my stuff back on April 14th with the news that I would have to file separately. Filing jointly, we would get a $2,000 refund. Filing separate, she got $3,000 back and I owed $5,000.

I suppose, then, that there was nothing in the separation agreement specifying the filing status, or the disposition of the refund (or liability).  My condolances. Folks who are writing up separation agreements may want to consider such a clause (along with who gets to claim the children as exemptions). My ex and I waited for January for the actual divorce in order to file jointly that one last time, and we agreed to split the bottom line (refund or liability) 50/50.  I count myself fortunate for having had a reasonably amicable separation. — Jack in NJ

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The first year after we were separated my ex (the tax writer) handed my stuff back on April 14th with the news that I would have to file separately. Filing jointly, we would get a $2,000 refund. Filing separate, she got $3,000 back and I owed $5,000.

My ex and I always cooperated on money matters. The tax clause in our separation agreement: For any year in which we could do so, we would file a joint return and our respective payments or refunds would be determined by dividing the total tax amount by the ratio of our respective incomes, then deducting the tax withheld (prepaid) by each from those sums to determine the amount over or underpaid by each.  Individually, one party may owe more and the other may be due a refund.  In such a case, the party who owed more would first pay IRS any tax due and the balance to the party who overpaid.  [Rog']

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The first year after we were separated my ex (the tax writer) handed my stuff back on April 14th with the news that I would have to file separately. Filing jointly, we would get a $2,000 refund. Filing separate, she got $3,000 back and I owed $5,000. I suppose, then, that there was nothing in the separation agreement specifying the filing status, or the disposition of the refund (or liability).  My condolances.

I probably will file separately because: 1) She’s self-employed (and has a supplemental low paying part time job) and will owe money at the end of the year. 2) I have a regular job with a bit extra self-employed income on top, and will get a refund. 3) I’m through being extra nice 4) there is no separation agreement because she has dragged her feet and delayed and screwed around 5) And when I get the refund I’m going to split it with her anyway, because that seems like the right thing to do. Joe "just nice, not extra nice" Micro Brew

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"Rambler" wrote… From what you said above, Roger, it seems that if in a given year you were making all of the money, you’d be paying all the tax. <snip … it would seem to say that, since I earned it, I should be responsible for the tax.  However, she also benefited from my earnings in that it supplied her with a lifestyle that she otherwise wouldn’t have been able to. Now, since it was "our" money, shouldn’t she be responsible, equally, for the  tax on it.  If it’s paid, it’s paid, and it was paid out of the joint funds, but if it is not paid, well then … what sayest ye on that?  I mean, legally, morally and ethically, she be able to walk?

Legally, I don’t think that she could be held liable for tax that you owe on your income (unless she signs your return).  But morally and ethically, she ought to pay a portion of the tax burden to the extent that she spent your income on herself. My ex also spent a lot of my income for her lifestyle, but the reason we used the ratio of our incomes was not legal, morals or ethics, just that, since we both had tax withheld from our pay, proportionately, a "from each according to their abilities" approach seemed to work best.

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Hey All, I just emailed my x-husband about income tax crap.  He promised me some money you see when he gets his return.  Anyways, he says we should file together because we were married in 2003.  Is that right?  Its him who will be cheating the IRS I suppose and not me but is that cheating them or is that technically right since we were married in 2003?  I just want to be sure is all.  Works for me because we’ll get more money back and therefore I’ll actually get some well deserved $$$ from him but I just don’t know if thats technically okay. Any help would be great. Thanks

Karen, I’m certainly not a tax expert of any sort, so your mileage may vary…. But I suspect that the question really boils down to "Did you, personally, work and earn money during that tax year?"  If you did, then you would be required to file a return with the US IRS.  That return could be either a joint return with your ex or a separate return filed only by yourself, but a return must be filed with your name on it.  Now, otoh, if you did *not* earn money during that tax year, you are *not* required to file.  Your ex-husband (assuming he worked and earned money) would have to file, though.  And he *could* file jointly (with your name on the return) if the two of you were married during the tax period.  His reasons for doing this would be that the total tax bill would probably be lower than if he filed separately. Cheers! rj

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Hey All, I just emailed my x-husband about income tax crap.  He promised me some money you see when he gets his return.  Anyways, he says we should file together because we were married in 2003.  Is that right?  Its him who will be cheating the IRS I suppose and not me but is that cheating them or is that technically right since we were married in 2003?  I just want to be sure is all.  Works for me because we’ll get more money back and therefore I’ll actually get some well deserved $$$ from him but I just don’t know if thats technically okay. Any help would be great. Thanks

Response:

Hey All, I just emailed my x-husband about income tax crap.  He promised me some money you see when he gets his return.  Anyways, he says we should file together because we were married in 2003.  Is that right?

Were you still married to him on Dec. 31, 2003?  If so, you file as "married", and you may choose to file either "jointly" or "separately". If you were divorced by Dec. 31, 2003, you cannot file as "married" (unless you married someone else by Dec. 31, 2003). http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html#d0e974 :   Divorced persons.   If you are divorced under a final decree by the last day of the year,   you are considered unmarried for the whole year. Best wishes. — Jack in NJ

Response:

Thanks!  Yeah.  We were still married December 31 of 2003. Yeah.  What a dink.  My x-husband wanted us to stay married until March just so we could file as married.  I’m all ‘No thanks.  I have no desire to cheat the IRS.’ I question if we can do it, how am I even supposed to sign the paperwork? I’m in Canada and him in the US.  I don’t suppose that occured to him. Yeah.  As if.  That would require him to use his brain. Peace

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do not sign a tax return with him if you know it is false. You can file separately even if you are married. I am not sure if you are even allowed to file jointly if yo are divorced, but in any case, stay clear of the IRS wrath and file only honest tax returns, preferably without anyone who may be cheating on a joint return. i

Response:

I just emailed my x-husband about income tax crap.  He promised me some money you see when he gets his return. Anyways, he says we should file together because we were married in 2003.  Is that right?

In 1999, I was pleased that our final hearing was on 12/23. Pleased not about the divorce, but the timing.  Since we were not married to each other on 12/31, we would be considered unmarried and _could not_ file jointly. My taxes were higher, but at least I would not have to deal with sharing a payment or a refund. However, there were dividends, interest and capital gains on joint accts which had my SSN, so I had to report them on my return.  My ex agreed to pay a prorated share of the tax on those items… it wasn’t much.  [Rog']

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Karen said… Thanks!  Yeah.  We were still married December 31 of 2003. Yeah.  What a dink.  My x-husband wanted us to stay married until March just so we could file as married.  I’m all ‘No thanks.  I have no desire to cheat the IRS.’

If you were legally married on Dec 31 you’re not cheating.   You’d be cheating if you lied about your marital status. I question if we can do it, how am I even supposed to sign the paperwork? I’m in Canada and him in the US.  I don’t suppose that occured to him. Yeah.  As if.  That would require him to use his brain.

Mail, UPS, FedEx… any of those will work.  Mail to you, you sign, mail back to him or to the IRS.  He’ll probably think of this idea. Casey We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

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Thanks!  Yeah.  We were still married December 31 of 2003. Yeah.  What a dink.  My x-husband wanted us to stay married until March just so we could file as married.  I’m all ‘No thanks.  I have no desire to cheat the IRS.’ I question if we can do it, how am I even supposed to sign the paperwork?  I’m in Canada and him in the US.  I don’t suppose that occured to him…. That would require him to use his brain.

I detect a touch of sarcasm.  If he agreed to provde a notarized affidavit stating that: 1. he has reported all taxable income and that all deductions are fully supported and will provide proof of same upon request, 2. he will pay any exepenses (including attorneys or accountant fees) and any penalties or interests that may be incurred or assessed as a result of any error or omission, or an IRS audit, and 3. he acknowledges your claim to a portion of any refund and will not deposit, cash or assign it without your prior approval… Then, I’d consider signing a joint return.  And Fed-X the papers. [Rog']

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It’s not cheating the IRS if all you’re doing is taking advantage of the married status.  Of course you have to be married as of 12/31/2003, though.  Why would you want to be taxed more than your fair share anyway? As for signing the return, he can sign first, then mail it to you…perfectly legit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks!  Yeah.  We were still married December 31 of 2003. Yeah.  What a dink.  My x-husband wanted us to stay married until March just so we could file as married.  I’m all ‘No thanks.  I have no desire to cheat the IRS.’ I question if we can do it, how am I even supposed to sign the paperwork? I’m in Canada and him in the US.  I don’t suppose that occured to him. Yeah.  As if.  That would require him to use his brain. Peace Do not sign a tax return with him if you know it is false. You can file separately even if you are married. I am not sure if you are even allowed to file jointly if yo are divorced, but in any case, stay clear of the IRS wrath and file only honest tax returns, preferably without anyone who may be cheating on a joint return. i

Response:

Question:

I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

I’m an engineer and with all engineering consulting firms I’ve been associated with the overhead expenses are estimated and a fixed proportion of the labor rate is charged for overhead.  Another percentage is added for fringe benefits (if any) and another for G&A (also, if any).   If the principal is adamant about doing this, I think you’ll probably have better luck asking in a quickbooks ng–I use QB for my own consulting, but I don’t allocate actual overhead costs in this manner, I just accumulate them as expenses throughout the year and, as above, bill on an adjusted rate including OH. And just now, I don’t recall the name of the QB ng–it’s under alt.?.quickbooks.??

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

I don’t have any easy answers so try asking in

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

After calculating overhead as you have a few times, what was the result per hour? Was it pretty close each time? Many businesses develop a "standard" overhead rate per hour and adjust it annually. That would simplify things a great deal.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this?

At the each end of the month after calculating the amount of overhead that is to be allocated (or use an estimated amount) you can make a journal entry similar to the following: Job A – allocated overhead                                       (Job A) 100 Job B – allocated overhead                                       (Job B) 100 Dummy Job – allocated overhear                                (dummy job) 200 You need to set up a dummy job or the 200 credit would end up being posted to Job B. This will give you the same results without the time consumming chore of going back to each unallocated expense. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

Brad, There is an affordable alternative to Quickbooks, that was actually intended to do job costing.  The software is the result of a quarter of a century of development for the construction industry.  You can get the SBA version for $25.  It will handle what your client needs.  The CD comes with over 50 sessions of multimedia training and a getting started wizard to help you set up your client.  The wizard also allows you to import certain files from Quickbooks to expedite your setup process. You can order the SBA copy from A-Systems at (800) 365-6790.  By the way, the SBA version is the only software endorsed by the United States Small Business Administration. Arnold – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

going to an SBA office is a little inconvenient, I’ll just email their answer desk http://www.sba.gov/answerdesk.html  and see what accounting software programs they recommend.   Bob,   Go to your nearest SBA office and ask if they have a construction accounting program on their computers of if they recommend one.  The SBA purchased a copy for every office in the nation.   Arnold

where is this accounting software endorsed or recommended by the SBA?  I don’t see it on the official http://www.sba.gov/  site –

You can order the SBA copy from A-Systems at (800) 365-6790.  By the way, the SBA version is the only software endorsed by the United States Small Business Administration. Arnold

I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

Thanks to all repliers.  I posted this in alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks and got no replies in the last two days.  Now I know which newsgroup to go to if I need good info. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

You say you "assign a job code to every unallocated expense". Does this mean that you credit each unallocated expense account causing each to have a zero balance? Also, do you have a line in each job for each one of the unallocated expenses? If you’re doing either of these things your making a bunch of work. See Allan Martin’s answer – post only totals and post only to allocation accounts. Flint —– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

I had the same luck there. FWIW, I allocate our OH in exactly the manner you described. I use a percent of direct labor costs, because the admin workload can shift dramatically from month to month, based on which department is busiest. Yes, it is time consuming but it is the only way I have figured out to make it work for our company. Actually, it isn’t the calculation that is time-consuming, it is the distribution entries. A

Thanks to all repliers.  I posted this in alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks and got no replies in the last two days.  Now I know which newsgroup to go to if I need good info.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

Thanks to all repliers.  I posted this in alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks and got no replies in the last two days.  Now I know which newsgroup to go to if I need good info.

It is kinda’ an advocacy/rant group, granted…I’ve not read it regularly for some time now as I’ve about given up on QB as I’ve slowed the amount of consulting down… Anyway, assuming you’re using a current QB version, a possible suggestion would be perhaps it would be a candidate for user-written addin to do the distributions… <RANT/ I bought QB on the premise that the advertised integration w/MS Office was indeed that–turned out, Intuit’s definition of "ingegration" was/is "an incomplete and precanned export function".  Subsequent to that, the completion of the integration option was dropped in favor of the switch to XML-format files and the API–which required upgrading QB to a version which had fee-based tables, etc. that I didn’t want to get into.  Then’s when I decided to punt relying on QB so my present knowledge is somewhat out of date wrt the functionality of the API. <RANT But, it <might be possible to automate the distributions significantly and if it is going to be a longterm relationship and a fair amount of effort, worth considering, perhaps…

Response:

Bob, Go to your nearest SBA office and ask if they have a construction accounting program on their computers of if they recommend one.  The SBA purchased a copy for every office in the nation. Arnold – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – where is this accounting software endorsed or recommended by the SBA?  I don’t see it on the official http://www.sba.gov/  site – You can order the SBA copy from A-Systems at (800) 365-6790.  By the way, the SBA version is the only software endorsed by the United States Small Business Administration. Arnold I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

where is this accounting software endorsed or recommended by the SBA?  I don’t see it on the official http://www.sba.gov/  site – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can order the SBA copy from A-Systems at (800) 365-6790.  By the way, the SBA version is the only software endorsed by the United States Small Business Administration. Arnold I am a CPA just starting to use Quickbooks.  One of my clients is an engineering firm that has just started up.  They’ve asked me to produce monthly job reports for each ongoing job.  Allocating direct costs to the job are not a problem – when entering the expense into QB, I use the appropriate job code.  However, overhead costs are supposed to be allocated to each job based on direct labor hours.  At the end of the month, I examine direct labor hours and come up with something like this (as an example): Job A: 38% of direct labor hours Job B: 21% of "" Job C: 41% of "" I then examine overhead expenses such as office expenses, equipment rentals, utilities, etc. and I am supposed to allocate the costs to individual jobs based on the percentages above.  The only way I can think of doing the allocation is extremely time consuming – I export the unallocated expenses to an Excel spreadsheet, do my allocations, then go back into QB and assign a job code to every unallocated expense. Is there a simpler way to do this? I’m sure there are a lot of posters with much more experience/knowledge than me.  I’d greatly appreciate any help they may give.

Response:

Question:

How do I make an entry when I have rent check coming in from a rental property via a property management company and repair/expense deductions taken out of that incoming rent amount before I get the check?

Response:

How do I make an entry when I have rent check coming in from a rental property via a property management company and repair/expense deductions taken out of that incoming rent amount before I get the check?

I imagine you have some sort of agreement with the property management company that any repairs done on the rental property will be taken out of the rent received by them before you receive the final amount. Along with your final payment they should be sending you the amount of the repairs, what was fixed, and the supplies used. The latter part of that last statement is more for your knowledge that you are not being taken to the cleaners. If you do not have this agreement with the company, then you need to call them up and tell them to send you the entire amount of rent due and then bill you for the repairs. Otherwise, the entry to your first question will look like this: Cash                                                        $xxx      Rent Revenues                                                $xxx Maintenance Expense–Rental Property      $xxx      Cash                                                              $xxx This should do the trick. Remember one thing, always make sure there is a clear understanding of how the transactions will take place, before entering into an agreement with your rental property. Janice

Response:

How do I make an entry when I have rent check coming in from a rental property via a property management company and repair/expense deductions taken out of that incoming rent amount before I get the check?

if it’s just an investment for you,  debit cash and credit rent income.  If you do some repair/maintenance work yourself and you want to track repairs on the property you could record the income at gross and then net the expenses.

Response:

How do I make an entry when I have rent check coming in from a rental property via a property management company and repair/expense deductions taken out of that incoming rent amount before I get the check?

Credit the Gross amount of the rent, debit the repair expense, debit the bank. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA

Response:

Otherwise, the entry to your first question will look like this: Cash                                                        $xxx      Rent Revenues                                                $xxx Maintenance Expense–Rental Property      $xxx      Cash $xxx This should do the trick.

Not given the OP’s facts.  This would be an accounting nightmare to reconcile the cash account. Cash in, and cash out should ALWAYS be able to be tied down to an actual cash deposit or a check. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA

Response:

Thanks everyone!  That helped.

Response:

Question:

Can anyone recommend a good lease and loan software?  I have found systems that do one or the other but not both.

Response:

I’ve been thinking of writing something in this area.  It seems that no one is very satified with what is out there.  What do people think? Bill Couture

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good lease and loan software?  I have found systems that do one or the other but not both.

Are you looking for software to do the lease accounting?  If you are, please check out www.cornerstonesoftware.com.  We offer EaglePro lease accounting software. Remove NOSPAM for replies Cornerstone Software, Inc./ EaglePro Lease Accounting Software WWW: http://www.cornerstonesoftware.com/

Response:

Question:

Hi, i am about to start college, and am leaning to getting my MAcc and eventually my CPA.  I would like to know what sort of jobs are available to CPA and what sort of money you make..Thanks a lot

Response:

So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years.

… eventually my CPA.  I would like to know what sort of jobs are available to CPA and what sort of money you make..Thanks a lot

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *  Retired, but always willing to consider a good job offer.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years. —– Original Message —– So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years.

I know the feeling well.  3.0 grade average from a well accredited school. Finally started my own practice.  Things are slow (my accounting is a heck of a lot better than my marketing), but I’m getting a chance to prove my abilities.  Haven’t gone up for the CPA yet.  Florida is a five-year state, and bucks ran out when I got my degree.  However, I am working on EA, CMA, and will go for CPA when I can complete the education requirements. Meanwhile, I’m working really hard on building a niche doing accounting for small legal practices. — Chris Anton, A&A Management Accounting, Inc.

Response:

I think what you are doing is about the only solution left for most graduates.  Problem is, you have to do a tax prep based business to for it to work, and I really hate doing taxes.  (For me the strain of doing something I dislike as much as I do tax practice would put me in a stress situation.) If your really committed to your path, a tax based practice, I have the address of a marketing fellow.  You might like his program or you might not.  If you like, e-mail me and I will send you his address, phone number, and my take on what his marketing plan is. Regards – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years. —– Original Message —– So would I as I have not been able to find one for the last five years. Actually, I haven’t been able to get as far as an interview for a good job in the last five years. I know the feeling well.  3.0 grade average from a well accredited school. Finally started my own practice.  Things are slow (my accounting is a heck of a lot better than my marketing), but I’m getting a chance to prove my abilities.  Haven’t gone up for the CPA yet.  Florida is a five-year state, and bucks ran out when I got my degree.  However, I am working on EA, CMA, and will go for CPA when I can complete the education requirements. Meanwhile, I’m working really hard on building a niche doing accounting for small legal practices. — Chris Anton, A&A Management Accounting, Inc.

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *  Retired, but always willing to consider a good job offer.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

You might consider the Federal or State Government.  I worked for both before switching to the Oil Industry–which is not what it used to be. There is always room for tax auditors.  After you get some kind of job, you can keep applying for a better one. Also, if you start at a low salary, you can often move up to higher jobs. Probably less competition for the higher jobs with companies that pay less to new employees. A big help would be high grades in college and passing the CPA test as soon as you are elegible to take it. ==

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, i am about to start college, and am leaning to getting my MAcc and eventually my CPA.  I would like to know what sort of jobs are available to CPA and what sort of money you make..Thanks a lot

Response:

You guys are pretty depressing.   I am a CPA and have had a great career so far, have been a CPA for two years and have been in practice for 4.  I graduated from a so so university with okay grades – I worked hard at getting recruited and got several offers from the Big Five – I have been with E&Y for four years now and have transferred to London where I currently work on transations – (acquisitons, disposals, flotations, etc.)  Since I have started working upon graduation, my salary has literally doubled from $30k to around $70k in four years.  Of course that is slightly distorted as I am earning a British salary and cost of living is higher here, but for what I do, I would expect to be paid around $65k for back in the states. If practice is not for you, there are plenty of Opps in industry.

Response:

Anecdote:   When I graduated from college in 1977, at the time I was 31 years of age, various CPA firm recruiters came to our school.  I signed up for the interview with Arthur Young, one of the old Big 8 firms.  When I walked into the interview the partner (or principal) doing the interview went ballistic.  He spent twenty minutes berating me for wasting his time and repeatedly telling me I had no place in accounting.  Then he jumped on the College placement office people for letting these "old people" waste his time by signing up for the interviews.  To their credit the school told him he could shove it, everyone who signed got an interview regardless of race, gender, religion, age, or any other non relative prejudice that they could come up with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are pretty depressing. I am a CPA and have had a great career so far, have been a CPA for two years and have been in practice for 4.  I graduated from a so so university with okay grades – I worked hard at getting recruited and got several offers from the Big Five – I have been with E&Y for four years now and have transferred to London where I currently work on transations – (acquisitons, disposals, flotations, etc.)  Since I have started working upon graduation, my salary has literally doubled from $30k to around $70k in four years.  Of course that is slightly distorted as I am earning a British salary and cost of living is higher here, but for what I do, I would expect to be paid around $65k for back in the states. If practice is not for you, there are plenty of Opps in industry.

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * * Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Question:

User Sovereignty. Not a familiar topic to most users of computer and internet.  Below, you will find a life preserver, thrown to us by people who have put more thought into it than the average CPA or accountant. I preface these readings with one simple observation: people are born free, and are inherently free.  There cannot be any tyranny or exploitation but by the ignorant surrender of one’s natural freedom.   We are all free to act according to our own interests.  Nothing is forcing us to subordinate our wishes to the wishes of companies who would like to exploit us. Today’s computer hardware and software are profoundly shaped by the imperative of making money for their vendors.  Computers are not a pure utility like foodstuffs, minerals, or energy but rather, contain a whole spectrum of tricks and techniques that create additional income for vendors.  We have gradually allowed another "broadcast industry" model in which we gave away 1/3 of our precious time to advertising, and allowed the commercial selling imperative and message to permeate even the editorial content of newspapers, radio and TV. In the accounting software industry, these have gotten so far out of hand that they threaten small business’ ability to exist in the marketplace, alongside larger companies.  Before the internet, it was not a fatal problem that your vendor locked in your data and refused to provide interfaces. But today, if you cannot buy, sell, and pay and receive money over the internet freely, you may be blocked from access to markets themselves.  You cannot access goods and services at the best prices, and you cannot sell for the best prices. When you go out to evaluate accounting and business software, keep it in mind: the software should work 100% for the interests of the owner.   Not one single bit or byte should be allowed to pursue the interests of the software vendor, or tax collectors, or accountants, or employees, agents, contractors or any other third party, against the interests of the owner. Owners do have social responsibilities, and responsibilities under contracts, and under laws.  But until those software vendors or laws require owners of businesses to install automatic enforcement machines in our own homes and businesses, taking away our freedom, it is sheer lunacy to buy them voluntarily. * Todd F. Boyle CPA http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * XML accounting, webledgers, BSPs, ASPs, whatever it takes http://www.openresources.com/documents/ http://opencode.org/h2o/

Question:

… According to Friday’s THE WALL STREET JOURNAL…

Until something happens, that’s all "sky is falling" hype to sell newspapers.  Speculation runs rampant.  I’ve been watching Apples collapse ever since Wintel made them redundant (what, fifteen years ago?).  As far as a stock investment, as an outsider, I’ve always thought they were lousy, unless you were a frequent trader. So far, no talent exodus.

Response:

… Real compensation for the "best and the brightest" in the technology sector is dropping rapidly as tech stocks ….

No it’s not.  First, despite the hype, most tech employees don’t get options.  Second, the area is still hot and salaries and benefits are still very high.  Check dice.com, and look at cobol coders, hardly the hot end of the high tech market.  Third, I’ve noticed job adds for tech folks still state the salary offered, always an indication of a tight market and increasing salaries.  (when you see that thing you see in advertisements for accountants "salary depending on experience," you know the supply now exceeds the demand)

Response:

In the past they have used stock options to attract bright people.  I highly doubt they will be able to continue doing that.

I don’t know–the technology professional doesn’t have a lot of options here, since most of the other entities they would consider are facing the same situation.  And, unlike a number of other technology entities, MS has a profitable underlying operation that would give them an advantage if we get into a pure money bidding war. Real compensation for the "best and the brightest" in the technology sector is dropping rapidly as tech stocks continue to collapse because so much of the compensation came in the form of compensatory options. If this continues (the major tech stocks don’t recover and start growing again), that could have major impacts in areas of the country that have lots of these people.  There are those that planned believing their options would continue to give them wealth growth far in excess of their salaries for years to come, and they may find the situation very uncomfortable very soon…

Response:

Unix has been around a long time.  

I’d put it this way–UNIX has been "just about to become the big thing" for as long as I can remember.  And while it has always maintained visibility in certain areas, it’s never been able to turn the corner to become a commercially dominant system.   MS is part of corporate America.  The big secret is that MS is not a software company.  Its a marketing company.  I am sure the marketeers at Microsoft have a much better handle on what American business wants than any of its critics or the "pundits."  I am sure they will eventually pull and Edsel or New Coke, but they have been very careful in the past to protect themselves from product failures.  They’ve done them but they’ve been careful enough in managing their product roll outs that they haven’t gotten burned badly.

Actually, what I think is unique about Microsoft is that they aren’t *BOTHERED* by market failures, unlike most of corporate America. Sometimes they push forward and eventually end up with a success (Windows is probably the best example of this), sometimes they just live with being less than dominant and hope for improvement (MS Money vs. Quicken), and other times they simply drop the failure. But the interesting thing I see is that there aren’t public displays to humiliate those involved in the failure.  Part of that may be that Gates is still strongly in control of MS and all the glory and the blame goes to him–and he doesn’t care about the failures <grin.

Response:

… efficient command set of any operating system ever developed), Linux offers a variety of powerful GUI interfaces.

… I’ve been hearing the graphical interface is the answer since Mac/PARC. Motif & Open whatever it was didn’t change the world.  I have yet to see KDE or Gnome having a chance to do it.  Graphical interfaces have never been "intuitive" enough for the masses lacking the ability to use the systems, and they just get in the way of the competent. You may be right, but I don’t see anything to support your basic position at this point in time.

Response:

Why I don’t agree.

…. I agree with this. There is a lot happening with M$ that is will make it exceeding difficult for them to continue "business as usual". …

MS is not in the software business.  They are in the marketing business.  In many ways they are more like GM than any firm in the software or hardware business.  They only hire the brightest people available (they can afford to get them with stock options).  When I say bright, I mean their corporate policy (BG’s policy) has always been the top one percent, or better. For such a large company, they are extremely nimble.  If the business climant changes, they will have a better chance to change with it than most other firms. All things considered, you cannot beat good people.

Response:

Why I don’t agree. …. I agree with this. There is a lot happening with M$ that is will make it exceeding difficult for them to continue "business as usual". … MS is not in the software business.  They are in the marketing business.

We agree – but this is not news.  They only hire the brightest people available (they can afford to get them with stock options).

In the past they have used stock options to attract bright people.  I highly doubt they will be able to continue doing that. According to Friday’s THE WALL STREET JOURNAL at least 166 Million of M$’s 832 Million outstanding stock options are "under water".  Bright people are not going to continue to accept worthless stock options in lieu of real payment. Then there is the matter of outstanding "put warrants".  According to THE WALL STREET JOURNAL M$ has made more than $2 Billion selling put warrants since 1995. Those chickens are now coming home to roost.  According to THE WALL STREET JOURNAL M$ had 157 Million put warrants outstanding at prices ranging from $70 to $78 as of June 30.  According to The Journal, the company acknowledges that this could cost it $11.6 Billion over the next 10 quarters. Then there are all those stock options that are not under water – somewhere between 500 Million and 666 Million.  The declining price will no doubt put pressure on option holders to exercise and sell.  With a rising stock price, option holders would naturally have wanted to wait as long as possible to exercise.  Not so in a declining market.  The option holder will want to cash out before it is too late, and this could run as high as $36 Billion at today’s stock price (roughly $55), or closer to $42 Billion if all put warrants are exercised (stock bought at put warrant prices would most likely be used to pay option holders). This is not a pretty picture.  In my opinion, it is downright ugly. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

Unix has been around a long time.  It still hasn’t "happened." Microsoft used to sell Unix trademarked as Xenix.  The market sector that now uses MS products didn’t accept it then and it sure doesn’t seem to be stampeding to it now.  As far as "apps in development," there have always been and always will be smoke.  The only thing that is of real interest are the apps that have come out of beta testing.  I’ve heard this all before, and its all come to naught.

Actually, Xenix had a significant following.  However, the Xenix of the early 80s was in no way comparable to the Linux of today (Xenix was, however, far and away the best operating system of its time).  While the command line is still available (and continues to be the richest and most efficient command set of any operating system ever developed), Linux offers a variety of powerful GUI interfaces. Actually, there are significant apps already available.  When I referred to apps "in development" I’m talking about broad classes of applications that give Windows its appeal to corporate buyers.  Make no mistake — they’re coming.  The problem has been that there have been no development tools, and over the coming six months there are great tools which will be hitting the market. Linux and BSD have made a significant market penetration into the server market.  This is not the same as the desktop.  Unix is hard to use, it takes commitment, it takes some ability.  Win is easy to use, its a program loader, even your average dipsy dumb dumb employee can use it, it doesn’t do much of anything, its not really an operating system, and on and on it goes.  The people who use the desktop haven’t been looking for an operating system, they want a program loader and that’s what Win does for them.

Today, Linux continues to slightly more difficult to install than Windows. But I’m not sure it is any more difficult to "use" (post-installation) than Windows.  What about the current Linux is any more difficult to use than Windows? Windows is not a "program loader", it is an operating system.  It includes a HUGE API (that had to be replicated to provide cross-platform capability), a set of filesystems, task scheduling, multi-threading, and various other features of an operating system.  It would have been true to refer to Windows 3.x as a "program loader", but subsequent versions contain much, much more.  Importantly, Unix/Linux has all these things but in a much more efficient package. We should also keep in mind that the current Windows filesystems’ predominant feature, the hierarchical structure, was evolved from Unix. The beauty of Unix is that it provides an environment for the software engineer that simply allows him to do anything he wants to do.  Make it easy, hard, whatever, you can do it. Borland is soon to release cross-platform compilers, so that every application written in Delphi, c++ Builder, or JBuilder can be easily ported to Linux. Yes I’ve heard that song.  It sounds to me like one of those famous "historical" excuses that are so prevalent in the apps industry.  I’ve never seen the relevance as Linux and BSD came with the GNU tools from the start.  The SQL systems came on very early and big name publisher COBOL has been ported and released.  When there is a market for business programs, the programmers will write to it.  Programmers don’t write business programs for pleasure. Despite all the hype, that market hasn’t appeared yet.

GNU tools aren’t in the same ballpark with tools like Delphi & C++ Builder — In fact, there is at least 15-20 years technology difference between them.  I could go back to this kind of development, but it would be truly difficult after having a powerful IDE, integrated debugger, and rich component set like VCL (which is really just a wrapper around a powerful but cryptic Windows API).   There is plenty of SQL to be had for Linux, including IB6, which could develop into a market leader.  COBOL is really a non-issue.  No one is (or should be) using it for desktop devleopment. And frankly, I think corporate America is sick of getting stung by MSFT on useless upgrades for broken software. MS is part of corporate America.  The big secret is that MS is not a software company.  Its a marketing company.  I am sure the marketeers at Microsoft have a much better handle on what American business wants than any of its critics or the "pundits."  I am sure they will eventually pull and Edsel or New Coke, but they have been very careful in the past to protect themselves from product failures.  They’ve done them but they’ve been careful enough in managing their product roll outs that they haven’t gotten burned badly.

They have pulled numerous Edsels, but there is so much profit margin in software that a screwup here and there isn’t fatal.  In his book, "Writing Solid Code", Steve Macquire (a Microsoft QC Engineer) referred to blunders where code got so bad in Microsoft products they were NEVER released. It takes a long, long time for corporate America to make these transitions. Look how long it took for them to move from mainframe TSO to LAN operations. Unix offers substantial advantages in terms of TCO and communications capability.   With the difficulties faced by true client/server (which is still a rarity), Windows has given us only Winframe & TS as a means of handling distant workstations (perhaps the worst workable solution one could imagine). Yes, I think Linux will make it to the desktop, even the home.  Today’s Linux offers the best of both worlds — a seasoned, managable kernel, along with the ability to grow it into anything you want it to be.

Response:

Many have pooh-poohed the idea of UNIX/Linux on the desktop, but I believe it will ultimately happen.  There are many apps in development now for Linux that start to make it have most of the functionality of Windows. Borland is soon to release cross-platform compilers, so that every application written in Delphi, c++ Builder, or JBuilder can be easily ported to Linux.  And frankly, I think corporate America is sick of getting stung by MSFT on useless upgrades for broken software.

I agree with this. There is a lot happening with M$ that is will make it exceeding difficult for them to continue "business as usual".  I don’t have time today to say much more, but I’ll try to find some time in the next few days. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

And frankly, I think corporate America is sick of getting stung by MSFT on useless upgrades for broken software. MS is part of corporate America.  The big secret is that MS is not a software company.  Its a marketing company.

No secret here.  The only people who don’t know this are those who either don’t want to know or truly do not care. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

Many have pooh-poohed the idea of UNIX/Linux on the desktop, but I believe it will ultimately happen.  There are many apps in development now for Linux that start to make it have most of the functionality of Windows.

Unix has been around a long time.  It still hasn’t "happened." Microsoft used to sell Unix trademarked as Xenix.  The market sector that now uses MS products didn’t accept it then and it sure doesn’t seem to be stampeding to it now.  As far as "apps in development," there have always been and always will be smoke.  The only thing that is of real interest are the apps that have come out of beta testing.  I’ve heard this all before, and its all come to naught. Linux and BSD have made a significant market penetration into the server market.  This is not the same as the desktop.  Unix is hard to use, it takes commitment, it takes some ability.  Win is easy to use, its a program loader, even your average dipsy dumb dumb employee can use it, it doesn’t do much of anything, its not really an operating system, and on and on it goes.  The people who use the desktop haven’t been looking for an operating system, they want a program loader and that’s what Win does for them. Borland is soon to release cross-platform compilers, so that every application written in Delphi, c++ Builder, or JBuilder can be easily ported to Linux.  

Yes I’ve heard that song.  It sounds to me like one of those famous "historical" excuses that are so prevalent in the apps industry.  I’ve never seen the relevance as Linux and BSD came with the GNU tools from the start.  The SQL systems came on very early and big name publisher COBOL has been ported and released.  When there is a market for business programs, the programmers will write to it.  Programmers don’t write business programs for pleasure. Despite all the hype, that market hasn’t appeared yet.   And frankly, I think corporate America is sick of getting stung by MSFT on useless upgrades for broken software.

MS is part of corporate America.  The big secret is that MS is not a software company.  Its a marketing company.  I am sure the marketeers at Microsoft have a much better handle on what American business wants than any of its critics or the "pundits."  I am sure they will eventually pull and Edsel or New Coke, but they have been very careful in the past to protect themselves from product failures.  They’ve done them but they’ve been careful enough in managing their product roll outs that they haven’t gotten burned badly.

Response:

Jim said Todd said PCs stopped being very exciting when Microsoft killed the entire rest of the application software industry, and stood over it like Mike Tyson, clubbing companies to death when they lifted their heads. That seems to be changing. While M$ may still desire to dominate the market, it no longer has the ability to be the bully it once was.

Nooooo, you’re mistaking one thing.  Microsoft still totally owns the Windows sandbox, even more firmly than ever.  Nobody is going to write any cool stuff for Win2000 except Microsoft.   The minute anybody started making serious money at any application, Microsoft comes along and does it themselves. I agree, though, there is more competition since the ASP model again, allows creative and entrepreneurial programmers to have a level playing field. And since security is becoming paramount, I am seriously looking at moving off the windows platform into BSD or Linux.  I need a computer I can hookup to my DSL modem and surf the net, and do email without being wide open to hackers, viruses, worms, trojans, etc. In the 1960s we all just accepted the crappy automobiles from Detroit until the Japanese proved that cars could be MUCH more reliable, and cheaper, and get better gas mileage…. Todd Todd

Response:

Many have pooh-poohed the idea of UNIX/Linux on the desktop, but I believe it will ultimately happen.  There are many apps in development now for Linux that start to make it have most of the functionality of Windows. Borland is soon to release cross-platform compilers, so that every application written in Delphi, c++ Builder, or JBuilder can be easily ported to Linux.  And frankly, I think corporate America is sick of getting stung by MSFT on useless upgrades for broken software.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim said Todd said PCs stopped being very exciting when Microsoft killed the entire rest of the application software industry, and stood over it like Mike Tyson, clubbing companies to death when they lifted their heads. That seems to be changing. While M$ may still desire to dominate the market, it no longer has the ability to be the bully it once was. Nooooo, you’re mistaking one thing.  Microsoft still totally owns the Windows sandbox, even more firmly than ever.  Nobody is going to write any cool stuff for Win2000 except Microsoft.   The minute anybody started making serious money at any application, Microsoft comes along and does it themselves. I agree, though, there is more competition since the ASP model again, allows creative and entrepreneurial programmers to have a level playing field. And since security is becoming paramount, I am seriously looking at moving off the windows platform into BSD or Linux.  I need a computer I can hookup to my DSL modem and surf the net, and do email without being wide open to hackers, viruses, worms, trojans, etc. In the 1960s we all just accepted the crappy automobiles from Detroit until the Japanese proved that cars could be MUCH more reliable, and cheaper, and get better gas mileage…. Todd Todd

Response:

… My comment was more intended toward the economy in general than any specific component of the economy.

… Sorry Jim, I thought you were commenting on my favorite lemming area, the small end of the IT market sector, Intel, MS, Dell, HP now, CISCO, etc…..  I just love the hype, I find it so entertaining.  I think it would be fun to establish a "dead pool" game for the big players in this area.

Response:

… My comment was more intended toward the economy in general than any specific component of the economy. … Sorry Jim, I thought you were commenting on my favorite lemming area, the small end of the IT market sector, Intel, MS, Dell, HP now, CISCO, etc…..  I just love the hype, I find it so entertaining.  I think it would be fun to establish a "dead pool" game for the big players in this area.

Might be – but I don’t think I would want to play – just not interested enough to get adequately informed.  It is hard enough to keep up on the things I really need to know. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

While Dell has some really interesting new products (the Webservers, etc.), their core continues to be PCs and PCs have no profit margin.

Actually, Dell’s margins improved, at least per the New York Times article.  Their downward revision was based on lowered revenues, not pressure on margins. Now, it’s possible they didn’t react to lowered prices and we’ll see a low margin organization report great results.  But so far we still seem to be waiting. One thing that is clear, though, is that Europe is a major component of the problems.  Gateway, which has a very small European presence, is still saying it will meet analysts expecations.

Response:

David Ray said, Dell and Micron are easy to understand, also:  There isn’t any money in selling hardware anymore… PCs have no profit margin.

I am cautiously going to agree, although it is a huge generalization. I believe these PC sellers thought they would realize another windfall from the release of Windows 2K, the bloated code of which promised to require more and more horsepower.  As it has happened, W2K just hasn’t been selling…

PCs stopped being very exciting when Microsoft killed the entire rest of the application software industry, and stood over it like Mike Tyson, clubbing companies to death when they lifted their heads. Without diverse applications you don’t add value.  The whole Windows architecture sits in your office sucking up money and wasting clerical time, as well.  This was fun when computers were new and exciting.. But today, people are sick of computers and want real automation.  We don’t find Excel and Word amusing anymore. Competing software developers need business models with lots of money, before they will try to bring in new applications.  The pricing on packaged software is brutal.  ASPs and BSPs may be more profitable. But devices, there is a business model because there is lock in.  There will accordingly, be a profusion of tablets and PDAs and Email machines and wireless gadgets.   When a company puts up the money to roll out these applications devices by gosh, they have real estate.  SO there will be a lot of exciting devices.  You will walk around town with these things pointing and clicking stuff.   Women will jump on you, and tear your clothes off. One minor problem in the "wireless devices" market is the bandwidth sucks, badly and isn’t getting better quick enough.  So we are stuck at the WAP phone stage with the little postage stamp screens, and text messages.   * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * XML accounting, webledgers, BSPs, ASPs, whatever it takes

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David Ray said, Dell and Micron are easy to understand, also:  There isn’t any money in selling hardware anymore… PCs have no profit margin. I am cautiously going to agree, although it is a huge generalization. I believe these PC sellers thought they would realize another windfall from the release of Windows 2K, the bloated code of which promised to require more and more horsepower.  As it has happened, W2K just hasn’t been selling… PCs stopped being very exciting when Microsoft killed the entire rest of the application software industry, and stood over it like Mike Tyson, clubbing companies to death when they lifted their heads.

That seems to be changing. I expected to see a rise in M$ stock after the Supreme Court declined to accept to antitrust case directly from the trial court, but that has not happened.  M$ has continued to slide.  It closed yesterday at 55 1/8, down from approximately 120 in January. Also, Expedia, Inc., a much hyped M$ related "tracking stock" closed yesterday at 9 5/16, down from approximately 66 in December. While M$ may still desire to dominate the market, it no longer has the ability to be the bully it once was. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

I haven’t analyzed the numbers yet.  But, I think its more the decreasing increase stage before it goes flat.  I don’t believe the cycle has peaked yet.  They are selling to the general business, government, home, game players, industrial, communications, and many other markets.  When enough of the markets start asking "where is my ‘return’" you should get the sales flattening.

We’re still in the decreasing increase phase as opposed to actual drop in demand, at least from these players.  The issue is whether we are seeing that as a prelude to an actually levelling and/or decrease in demand *OR* if growth will continue later after the market "catches its breath" so to speak.

Response:

… My sense is that the cycle peaked in the first quarter of 2000.

… Not questioning your "third eye" impression.  IMHO, we won’t know for sure until three to five years after the peak actually happens.  My prior opinion that we’re in the pre peak flattening stage, is based on I still (what I perceive) see buyer activity in the hardware market. OTOH, I think the U.S. economy in general has flattened and this will confuse the current analysis of the PC/Internet market. Time for accountants to get prepped up for the bankruptcy business.

Response:

I think all these issues are easily explained.  I don’t think there is any doubt that technology users see the benefits.  Apple shouldn’t surprise anyone, as only Apple users buy Apples and they’ve all bought the latest, so there isn’t any market.  Intel, for the first time since the rise of the x86, has competition.  Dell and Micron are easy to understand, also:  There isn’t any money in selling hardware anymore.  While Dell has some really interesting new products (the Webservers, etc.), their core continues to be PCs and PCs have no profit margin. I believe these PC sellers thought they would realize another windfall from the release of Windows 2K, the bloated code of which promised to require more and more horsepower.  As it has happened, W2K just hasn’t been flying off the shelves (so, now comes Windows Me, which probably isn’t either).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More news on the technology front–Dell Computer has announced that they are going to fall short of expectations on third quarter sales, and Micron announced that they also grew below expectations (though in Micron’s case their memory business made up for the systems shortfall).  Coming on top of the Intel and Apple announcements, I still think we may be hitting the "show me the money" stage for those enterprises that have been buying technology equipment–they are sitting back now and wanting to see their prior technology investments pay off. In essence, enough entities are coming in now with "revised downward" demand numbers that it’s getting tougher and tougher to explain this as related only to a limited number of entities.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … My sense is that the cycle peaked in the first quarter of 2000. … Not questioning your "third eye" impression.  IMHO, we won’t know for sure until three to five years after the peak actually happens.  My prior opinion that we’re in the pre peak flattening stage, is based on I still (what I perceive) see buyer activity in the hardware market. OTOH, I think the U.S. economy in general has flattened and this will confuse the current analysis of the PC/Internet market. Time for accountants to get prepped up for the bankruptcy business.

I totally agree with this post. We won’t know for sure for several years – I can agree with three to five. My comment was more intended toward the economy in general than any specific component of the economy. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

More news on the technology front–Dell Computer has announced that they are going to fall short of expectations on third quarter sales, and Micron announced that they also grew below expectations (though in Micron’s case their memory business made up for the systems shortfall).  Coming on top of the Intel and Apple announcements, I still think we may be hitting the "show me the money" stage for those enterprises that have been buying technology equipment–they are sitting back now and wanting to see their prior technology investments pay off. In essence, enough entities are coming in now with "revised downward" demand numbers that it’s getting tougher and tougher to explain this as related only to a limited number of entities.

Response:

I haven’t analyzed the numbers yet.  But, I think its more the decreasing increase stage before it goes flat.  I don’t believe the cycle has peaked yet.  They are selling to the general business, government, home, game players, industrial, communications, and many other markets.  When enough of the markets start asking "where is my ‘return’" you should get the sales flattening. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More news on the technology front–Dell Computer has announced that they are going to fall short of expectations on third quarter sales, and Micron announced that they also grew below expectations (though in Micron’s case their memory business made up for the systems shortfall).  Coming on top of the Intel and Apple announcements, I still think we may be hitting the "show me the money" stage for those enterprises that have been buying technology equipment–they are sitting back now and wanting to see their prior technology investments pay off. In essence, enough entities are coming in now with "revised downward" demand numbers that it’s getting tougher and tougher to explain this as related only to a limited number of entities.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t analyzed the numbers yet.  But, I think its more the decreasing increase stage before it goes flat.  I don’t believe the cycle has peaked yet.  They are selling to the general business, government, home, game players, industrial, communications, and many other markets.  When enough of the markets start asking "where is my ‘return’" you should get the sales flattening. More news on the technology front–Dell Computer has announced that they are going to fall short of expectations on third quarter sales, and Micron announced that they also grew below expectations (though in Micron’s case their memory business made up for the systems shortfall).  Coming on top of the Intel and Apple announcements, I still think we may be hitting the "show me the money" stage for those enterprises that have been buying technology equipment–they are sitting back now and wanting to see their prior technology investments pay off. In essence, enough entities are coming in now with "revised downward" demand numbers that it’s getting tougher and tougher to explain this as related only to a limited number of entities.

My sense is that the cycle peaked in the first quarter of 2000. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

Question:

Hello, this is a genuine question. I work for a company having been recently hired, which writes accountancy software, it uses use something called a nominal ledger. I do not think such a thing exists in general accounting, however the MD of the company assures me that such a ledger does indeed exist.  It seems to emulate the general ledger. Other members of the company have privately informed me that it is a specialism of our software and does not really exist.  They are trained accountants. However, I would like to settle the argument once and for all.  Is there such a thing?  What is it used for? My boss tells me that the books I have read are based on US accountancy practice.  I live in the UK. If you live in the UK please respond to this. I am a computer programmer, not an accountant, however I have read books by Wood etc and am aware of the issues. Thanks Cliff.

Response:

Nominal Accounts refers to the temporary or P&L accounts that are closed at the end of the year [Accounting 101].  I guess one could argue that a ledger of these accounts be set up separately and dinstinct from the permanent [Balance Sheet] accounts.  That is the only explanation I can come up with. [And thank you Dr Foranocci for impressing this fact on me] Armand Albano KeySpan Energy Services

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, this is a genuine question. I work for a company having been recently hired, which writes accountancy software, it uses use something called a nominal ledger. I do not think such a thing exists in general accounting, however the MD of the company assures me that such a ledger does indeed exist.  It seems to emulate the general ledger. Other members of the company have privately informed me that it is a specialism of our software and does not really exist.  They are trained accountants. However, I would like to settle the argument once and for all.  Is there such a thing?  What is it used for? My boss tells me that the books I have read are based on US accountancy practice.  I live in the UK. If you live in the UK please respond to this. I am a computer programmer, not an accountant, however I have read books by Wood etc and am aware of the issues. Thanks Cliff.

Response:

Cliff, The Nominal Ledger collates the entries in other ledgers to produce a balance sheet and profit and loss account. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, this is a genuine question. I work for a company having been recently hired, which writes accountancy software, it uses use something called a nominal ledger. I do not think such a thing exists in general accounting, however the MD of the company assures me that such a ledger does indeed exist.  It seems to emulate the general ledger. Other members of the company have privately informed me that it is a specialism of our software and does not really exist.  They are trained accountants. However, I would like to settle the argument once and for all.  Is there such a thing?  What is it used for? My boss tells me that the books I have read are based on US accountancy practice.  I live in the UK. If you live in the UK please respond to this. I am a computer programmer, not an accountant, however I have read books by Wood etc and am aware of the issues. Thanks Cliff.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, this is a genuine question. I work for a company having been recently hired, which writes accountancy software, it uses use something called a nominal ledger. I do not think such a thing exists in general accounting, however the MD of the company assures me that such a ledger does indeed exist.   It seems to emulate the general ledger. Other members of the company have privately informed me that it is a specialism of our software and does not really exist.  They are trained accountants. However, I would like to settle the argument once and for all.  Is there such a thing?  What is it used for? My boss tells me that the books I have read are based on US accountancy practice.  I live in the UK. If you live in the UK please respond to this. I am a computer programmer, not an accountant, however I have read books by Wood etc and am aware of the issues. Thanks Cliff.

With all respect to another reply about temp aspects, ‘nominal ledger’ is the UK term for the ‘general ledger’ (US term).  They are the same thing. — David York (UK accountant)

Response:

Does this stem from the days when an entity may have had a private ledger (for ownership related accounts rather than trading accounts – never to be seen by the staff!), general ledger, sales ledger, debtors ledger etc?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cliff, The Nominal Ledger collates the entries in other ledgers to produce a balance sheet and profit and loss account. Ken

Response:

Check this out,you’ll like it. Babes will be added in  the near future !! http://users.skynet.be/eurogym

Response:

Question:

Please help me locate a list on the web of mid-ranged accounting software companies. Have someone who wants to call around and talk to sales people. please sent me url or names and number of packages that help with medium sized business. Before you buy.

Response:

http://www.peachtree.com/ http://www.accpac.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please help me locate a list on the web of mid-ranged accounting software companies. Have someone who wants to call around and talk to sales people. please sent me url or names and number of packages that help with medium sized business. Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I got my BA the year I turned 30 and my MSIS (information systems) two years ago at the age of 41. — *Julie Holm, Northern Virginia, USA             DoD #1604 *Virago Rider, avid cross-stitcher, church musician, geek and mom *Official Armourer and Webmistress of the Nasty Girlie Gang www.ziplink.net/~holm   You can get to the NGG there if you try!!! – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - "I’m gonna live upon this earth, I’m gonna find joy in all this madness,  I’m gonna be the one that you see living here, now, and feelin’ free"                                         -The Burns Sisters

Response:

My husband finally got his BS in ‘96 at age 53.  He is a year older than one

of his professors.  The way things are going, we’ll be paying off college loans with Social Security checks, when our only child turns 18.

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Marny here.  I am the 60 year old who is taking lessons again… the first time was 20 years ago … and stuff got in the way.  Now stuff is *still* in the way… but what the Heck!!!  I’m not going to get out of this Life alive so I might as well enjoy it to the fullest that I can achieve!!! Ahhh, where are you in relationship to Melbourne, Adeline, and Brisbane??  Where I have friends, who I met in Singapore. Gentle as you go, Marny   in sunny southern California…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My wife has just bought a piano. She had lesson when she was a child. So now I should take it up too. Not that there is anything else in my life, (Needlepoint, Masters by research, getting ready for the bushfire season, Doing what She who should be obeyed tells me — Roger Doulis (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

My wife has just bought a piano. She had lesson when she was a child. So now I should take it up too. Not that there is anything else in my life, (Needlepoint, Masters by research, getting ready for the bushfire — Roger Doulis (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform). Dept Civil Engineering (Clayton Campus)              Ph 9905-4964 Monash University                                    Fax 9905-1483 Wellington Rd. Clayton Victoria 3168 Australia

Response:

g’day cindy, I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it!

absolutely! well done cindy! we have another ‘mature’ RCTN’er who is finishing up her degree in computer science here in Sydney. she’s just won a prize for one of her group projects. i know how hard this subject is, because i did the same degree a few years ago. so congrats rosemary!!! let us know when you need help spending your prize money on stash. cheers, pauline

Response:

When my parents divorced, my mother went back to school.  She had originally left school at 15, and at the age of 45 returned to finish year 11 and 12. She then applied for and got a placing at the local teachers college, on the strength of her year 12 results only (not under a Special Entry Scheme) and qualified as a teacher at the age of 49.  Unfortunately, she wasn’t able to find work in schools in her area (already oversupplied) and worked instead as a cottage parent for teenagers/young adults with intellectual (and often also physical) disabilities.  After a few years, she went back to school *again*, part-time, and 15 months ago qualified as a nurse at the age of 55. She is now working as a nurse full-time, mostly taking night shifts (her shift of choice) at a local nursing home. Can you guess I’m very proud of her? Aramanth — X/AUS/H++/X3X2/2C,pond of F/X,Bw,H,N/H,S/:-X+:-D~/L/G-/W+/D/M/B/b++/ R-/S-/K/E/Nightcrawler/too many to list/RPG/apples and cheese      

Response:

we have another ‘mature’ RCTN’er who is finishing up her degree in computer science here in Sydney. she’s just won a prize for one of her group projects. i know how hard this subject is, because i did the same degree a few years ago. so congrats rosemary!!! let us know when you need help spending your prize money on stash. cheers, pauline

Thanks Pauline, I suspect my Sydney rctn friends will have influenced me into spending the money several times over waaay before I get it. By the way, I saw those quote around the word mature. (VBG) Rosemary in Sydney

Response:

My DH is currently going to college.  He is 35 years old, and spent the first 13 years of his post-high school life in the Navy.  He is going for an accounting degree, and working part-time, too (about 25 hours a week).  Most of the students in his classes are much younger, and many of them aren’t very serious about studying.  In Georgia, where we live, state residents can get a degree at a state university for free, as long as they maintain a B average.  DH is not eligible since we moved back here after the Navy, and he began college before becoming a resident.  But the younger kids don’t seem to appreciate what they’re being given (I sure do, because I just paid off my student loans!), and many are on the verge of failing.  They’re asking the teacher for a curve, but DH and a few others have averages of about 98, so no curve!  Maturity has a lot going for it! Karen

Response:

I am a graduate student in philosophy and 40-something.  My best friend is a graduate student in education; he is 50-something.  Together we consitute the Immature Students Association of the University of Regina, because although we seem to be getting older (and better), we are damn well not aging! (Our respective spouses have called us the Stilll-juvenile Delinquents. among other things). FWIW, my profs and advisors seem to enjoy having me around, and the undergrads with whom I attend classes treat me as one of the group.  THe only nasty person I met was a guy older than me who was taking a class here, a class there, trying to impress all the younger women with stories about his legendary life, and couldn’t cope with the fact that I with my admittedly sorta flakey attitude came in from outside "his" discipline, got better marks although nearly blonde, and was admitted to specialized seminars that he was turned down for. Dawne,

Response:

I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it! It’s not easy to work and go to school and raise the kids and get good grades.  Stand up and be proud of even making the effort!!!

Well, I’m 33 and have yet to finish my degree. I’ve been taking classes off and on for 15 years…sometimes going full-time, while working 12 hour shifts, and sometimes taking  just one class here and one class there.  It is hard to raise kids and go to school, keeping a 3.8 GPA.   I’m hoping that when both of my girls are in school, I can go back and finally finish up my teaching degree. It’s all I’ve ever wanted to do for as long as I can remember, and although the monetary compensation isn’t that great, the rewards are endless!   Casey =)

Response:

you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!

Moni, it is never too late to learn anything. I dropped out of college when I had two semesters left. I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. I know I’m silly though and like everyone tells me, I’m passing it on to you: "Go for it!" I used to play piano and enter recitals. I love it as you will, I’m sure Diane

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Yes, I stopped bowling about 20 years ago and gave both my then-16-yr old daughter and myself piano lessons… our teacher was the same one that taught Billy Joel, who is from Hicksville, NY — where I lived before moving to the San Diego area almost 2 years ago.  (a run-on sentence if ever I wrote one!!!) The teacher kept switching my lessons and, after only 1 year of lessons, I had to quit.  Working 2 jobs and trying to support my children alone, meant I needed to stay sort of focused on them.  I truly missed my lessons… and am happy to have Just resumed them. And now… it is 2:53 p.m. and I will be quite late for my resumed lessons … which I began again last January. Gentle hugs, Marny   who decided my life was worth playing music for… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

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Hi, Just wanted to assure you that you’re never too old to learn.  I had a 70-year-old lady (she was an Avon customer of mine at the time) whose heart’s desire was to be able to play her hymns on a piano.  I told her I would give her free lessons.  She went out and bought an old upright.  Within 6 months she was playing her beloved hymns. By the way, I want to introduce myself.  I’ve posted a few times in answer to other questions.  My name is Marilyn, and I live on Merritt Island, FL (the home of the Kennedy Space Center).  I’ve been reading RCTN for many months now, and am very comforted and impressed as to how everyone pulls together in loves, hugs, and tragedies. I’m a cross-stitch addict also. Marilyn

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<snip Moni, it is never too late to learn anything. I dropped out of college when I had two semesters left. I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. I know I’m silly though and like everyone tells me, I’m passing it on to you: "Go for it!" I used to play piano and enter recitals. I love it as you will, I’m sure Diane

Diane, if you only knew how happy your professors are to work with mature students! You add something valuable to the group. (Now I’m really dating myself.) When I was in college in the late 40s, many of my classmates were returning GIs. Those grown men really stimulated us to work hard to keep up. It was a challenging experience, and I’m sure I was a better student because of them. Emily M.

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My mom will be 66 in February and recently not only started to take piano lessons but bought a piano to practice on  :D I’m so proud of her  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG).

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Well, if your autoharp is the ‘usual’ one you can learn to play it in about 5-10 minutes!  Find music that has guitar chords printed over the top – press the button that corresponds and strum the strings.  You’re playing!!!!!  :)   By the way – with a little experimentation you may find you can play some of your other instruments without being able to read music. My DH plays an incrediable amount of different instruments – all basically by ear.  He learned to play recorder (soprano) by just playing all the notes he could find and then just starts playing a song. . . me – I have to learn the fingering for each note and have music to read. He thinks it’s fantastic I can sightread and as you can tell – I’m awed by how he plays by ear.   Being about to read music – can be important (ie. you can’t play something by ear if you’ve never heard it) *BUT* don’t let that stop you from enjoying your music!!!  Go for it!!!! FYI – many piano teachers enjoy having older/adult students.  For one they are usually more dedicated to practicing.  Although they are over eager to get to the level where they can play ‘everything’; they are willing to do all the exercises dictated by the teacher – no matter how dumb they seem. Sonya (in Texas) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

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If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

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<snipped, but I’m not sure about who the original author was! I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!

I just started piano lessons this fall, and I’m 38 years old.  Okay, 38 1/2.  I played the flute all through school, but it’s been a lifelong dream of mine to play the piano with *two* hands.  Since we inherited an old upright from my FIL, and my DD has been playing for 4 years now, I decided I deserved a turn, too!  I manage to squeeze in a lesson while my youngest is at preschool and practice when I can.  It’s one of the most fulfilling things I’ve ever done! -JoyceG in WA

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Moni, it is never too late to learn anything. I dropped out of college when I had two semesters left. I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. I know I’m silly though and like everyone tells me, I’m passing it on to you: "Go for it!"

*Definitely* go for it!  I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33.  I’ve never done anything I’ve been so proud of.  It taught me that I can do anything I set my mind to. I found that, with a little age and experience, I was a much better student.  I believe that living in the real world gives older students an advantage over those fresh out of high school.   Chin up – you’ll do great!!! Jacqueline Morgantown, WV

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I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school.

and Jacqueline Morgantown, WV writes:  I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33.

Well, I’ve got you both beat.  I went back to school at age 50.  I am now 53 and in March I will be done with a BA in Liberal Studies with a minor in Human Development.  Like you Jacqueline, I am extremely proud of myself. You are correct that there are advantages to having lived in the real world longer.  I enjoyed being in the classroom with younger students, some were the ages of my own children. If any of you are contemplating it, do it, it gives you a nice, fresh perspective on life and it was fun!  The instructors seemed to enjoy having a more uhmm mature student in the class also. BTW, I was rarely (except for a few morning classes) the oldest person in the class. Julie (*^_^*)

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I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33

I started back at 51 and kept going until I got a master’s degree in management at 65.  Go for it no matter what your age.  Frances

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. and Jacqueline Morgantown, WV writes:  I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33. Well, I’ve got you both beat.  I went back to school at age 50.  I am now 53 and in March I will be done with a BA in Liberal Studies with a minor in Human Development.  Like you Jacqueline, I am extremely proud of myself. You are correct that there are advantages to having lived in the real world longer.  I enjoyed being in the classroom with younger students, some were the ages of my own children. If any of you are contemplating it, do it, it gives you a nice, fresh perspective on life and it was fun!  The instructors seemed to enjoy having a more uhmm mature student in the class also. BTW, I was rarely (except for a few morning classes) the oldest person in the class. Julie (*^_^*)

I had the experience of being the oldest in the class – about ten years ago when I was 20-mumble-something!  It was a night class, too, which often have more mature students.  It was a sociology class, and I was the only student who had any memory of the early 70’s. A few years later, I was in an afternoon English class.  I think the only other student there who was older than me was a woman who was in the class with her college-age daughter! I have also found myself in classes where I was older than the prof! Deb — Space is big.  Really big.  You just won’t believe how vastly, mindbogglingly big it is…. The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination. —- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

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I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it! It’s not easy to work and go to school and raise the kids and get good grades.  Stand up and be proud of even making the effort!!! — Cindy Brown Cross-stitcher, quilter, designer http://mypage.ihost.com/ClassicsInTheMaking "My candle burns at both ends. It will not last the night. But ah, my foes and oh, my friends, It gives a lovely light!"                         – Edna St. Vincent Millay

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My grandad turned 70 in August and is going to college to learn about computers!  I think it’s great! Ynara http://members.tripod.com/~Ynara/

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I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it! It’s not easy to work and go to school and raise the kids and get good grades.  Stand up and be proud of even making the effort!!!

I did my law degree starting at age 28 and the rest of the class was 18 – I think we start earlier in the UK.  At the time I was a single parent with 2 kids.   What made me feel old was that some of the young women who were away from home for the first time came to me for advice about contraception. Over the three year course I directed about a dozen women to the Morning After Pill – and guess who got pregnant in the final year!  Still that year I got a degree *and* the Princess Baby Perry.  This is the first degree in our family *ever* so they were all really proud. stef – Hounslow, England

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