Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Holland’s Right-Wing Calls For Hijab Ban By Khaled Shawkat, IOL Correspondent THE HAGUE, February 6 (IslamOnline.net) – The Dutch anti-immigration party List Pim Fortuyn (LPS) has called on Parliament to enact a law banning hijab in public areas, including schools, courts and other administrative bodies owned or finaced by the government. The jurists and teachers should shun out whatever throwing doubt on their neutrality, LPS MP Eerdmans Joost said Wednesday, February 4. Joost, one of eight party members in the legislature, said that clothes that portary one’s religious affiliations should be rather abandoned at work and only worn at home. The statements are to revive controversy on the religious signs as that now raging on in France, where a ban in state-runs schools is take into effect as of next academic year in September. The LPS had earlier called on former Justice Minister Korthals to prevent employees from putting on religious insignia. But Korthals did not take the proposal seriously, leaving open the issue with no real discussion. Unlike his predecessor, current Justice Minister Donner promised to issue a ban on the religious dresses among justices and lawyers. The minister even urged other ministers follow suit, the MP Joost told Nederlands Dagbald newspaper. Hijab Rather Targeted The MP Joost said that the party did not want the Dutch citizens to clash with court employee in ostensible religious signs. These signs are disturbing, and the public sector should stay away from showing personal – including religious – beliefs, he said. Asked whether Christian insignia should be included in the proposed ban, the far-right extremist parliamentarian said they are cultural rather than religious symbols. Unlike hijab, Christian signs are not of religious implications, he said, but added that skullcaps of Judaism and turbans should be also abandoned. Joose said the LPS seeks to maintain secular principles in the country, noting that Islamic groups pose a genuine threat accordingly. Ruled Out Analsysts ruled out the country would ban religious insiginia thanks to numerous considertaions. Religious eductation in The Netherlands is different from that in France, as religious schools are financed by the government here. The ruling Christian Democrats (CDA) would also fight any move towards the ban, as it would be hostile towards its support base, mostly conservatives connected with Catholic and Protestant schools. Hijab-clad women are also taking up top posts in the country, including in the justice bodies, as the government attempts to integrate Muslims – estimated at one million of the overall 16 million population. Hijab is no obstacle to the integration of women in Holland, as hijab-clad Muslims have achieved a remarkable success in various fields of study and work, Rabiaa Bouhalhoul, a Dutch official, told IslamOnline.net on Tuesday, January 27. In September last year, setting a good example for Muslim females in the West, two hijab-clad students were honored  by a Dutch faculty for their excellence and dedication. As Muslims are growing in The Netherlands, accounting for 6% of the population, they have established over the past 30 years hundreds of religious, social and cultural organizations, many of which receive grants from the Dutch authorities. Anti-Islam Analaysts said that the LPS’s calls for hijab ban could be an attempt to attrcat attention of media outlet after the assassination of its founder. The party got only eight seats in 2003 elections, and analysts belive it would be dismantled after getting empty-handed in coming 2006 elections. The LPF was a vehicle for Pim Fortuyn, a right-wing populaist known for his anti-Islam rants including that "I am also in favour of a cold war with Islam" and "I see Islam as an extraordinary threat, as a hostile society". Since Fortuyn’s murder it has begun falling apart. "We feel like orphans," admitted the party’s new leader Mat Herben, a pocket-sized former Defense Ministry civil servant was quoted by the Guardian as saying. But challenges are still there. Former Prime Minister Jan-Peter Balkenende?s far-right coalition collapsed in 2002, with the move mainly blamed on the squabbles created by his party which is infamous for its xenophobia platform and anti-Muslim stances. Muslim women took to the streets of Helmond city, southeast of the Netherlands, to protest a decision by the city’s municipality to withhold an annual grant for a government-aided social organization, allocated for women-only swimming classes. In May 2002, the buildings of Ibn Khaldoun Islamic school, south of Rotterdam, had come under attacks. The attacks were largely blamed on extremist Dutch groups, particularly that several major Dutch towns, which host Muslim and foreign communities, have been theater for anti-Arab and Muslim propaganda since the 9/11 attacks. Five Dutch people, ageing between 16 and 23, were also arrested  in July on charges of setting an Islamic school on fire in Eindhoven, south east of the Netherlands. Police then said the five were driven by Xenophobia and hatred of Arabs and Muslims in particular, said the police statement. The two parties of the ruling Dutch coalition were locking horns  over banning Islamic education in the European country last year. On July 1, five Dutch people, ageing between 16 and 23, were arrested  on charges of setting an Islamic school on fire in Eindhoven, south east of the Netherlands. http://islamonline.net

Five Dutch people, ageing between 16 and 23, were also arrested  in July on charges of setting an Islamic school on fire in Eindhoven, south east of the Netherlands. They should be called, "Dutch Patriots". They’re trying to prevent a stone-age cult from destroying hundreds of years of democracy. Religious education in The Netherlands is different from that in France, as religious schools are financed by the government here.

Big mistake. It is suicide to finance the very groups (in the name of democracy) that will bring about your destruction. It is democracy itself which needs to be defended, not its enemies. The U.S. is in crisis because many ignorant people believe that criminal speech is protected under the First Amendment, and that criminalty for religious reasons is acceptable. We’ve been flooded with muslim immigrants, (legal and illegal), who preach the destuction of the U.S. openly in their mosques and schools). There is a large number of people who think that illegal immigration should be allowed. (Strange, their ancestors had to go through legal channels to become citizens). You can’t pander to you enemies, it only makes them stronger. People need to speak out more aggresively in defending their freedom against religious cults.

Response:

Holland’s Right-Wing Calls For Hijab Ban By Khaled Shawkat, IOL Correspondent THE HAGUE, February 6 (IslamOnline.net) – The Dutch anti-immigration party List Pim Fortuyn (LPS) has called on Parliament to enact a law banning hijab in public areas, including schools, courts and other administrative bodies owned or finaced by the government. The jurists and teachers should shun out whatever throwing doubt on their neutrality, LPS MP Eerdmans Joost said Wednesday, February 4. Joost, one of eight party members in the legislature, said that clothes that portary one’s religious affiliations should be rather abandoned at work and only worn at home. The statements are to revive controversy on the religious signs as that now raging on in France, where a ban in state-runs schools is take into effect as of next academic year in September. The LPS had earlier called on former Justice Minister Korthals to prevent employees from putting on religious insignia. But Korthals did not take the proposal seriously, leaving open the issue with no real discussion. Unlike his predecessor, current Justice Minister Donner promised to issue a ban on the religious dresses among justices and lawyers. The minister even urged other ministers follow suit, the MP Joost told Nederlands Dagbald newspaper. Hijab Rather Targeted The MP Joost said that the party did not want the Dutch citizens to clash with court employee in ostensible religious signs. These signs are disturbing, and the public sector should stay away from showing personal – including religious – beliefs, he said. Asked whether Christian insignia should be included in the proposed ban, the far-right extremist parliamentarian said they are cultural rather than religious symbols. Unlike hijab, Christian signs are not of religious implications, he said, but added that skullcaps of Judaism and turbans should be also abandoned. Joose said the LPS seeks to maintain secular principles in the country, noting that Islamic groups pose a genuine threat accordingly. Ruled Out Analsysts ruled out the country would ban religious insiginia thanks to numerous considertaions. Religious eductation in The Netherlands is different from that in France, as religious schools are financed by the government here. The ruling Christian Democrats (CDA) would also fight any move towards the ban, as it would be hostile towards its support base, mostly conservatives connected with Catholic and Protestant schools. Hijab-clad women are also taking up top posts in the country, including in the justice bodies, as the government attempts to integrate Muslims – estimated at one million of the overall 16 million population. Hijab is no obstacle to the integration of women in Holland, as hijab-clad Muslims have achieved a remarkable success in various fields of study and work, Rabiaa Bouhalhoul, a Dutch official, told IslamOnline.net on Tuesday, January 27. In September last year, setting a good example for Muslim females in the West, two hijab-clad students were honored  by a Dutch faculty for their excellence and dedication. As Muslims are growing in The Netherlands, accounting for 6% of the population, they have established over the past 30 years hundreds of religious, social and cultural organizations, many of which receive grants from the Dutch authorities. Anti-Islam Analaysts said that the LPS’s calls for hijab ban could be an attempt to attrcat attention of media outlet after the assassination of its founder. The party got only eight seats in 2003 elections, and analysts belive it would be dismantled after getting empty-handed in coming 2006 elections. The LPF was a vehicle for Pim Fortuyn, a right-wing populaist known for his anti-Islam rants including that "I am also in favour of a cold war with Islam" and "I see Islam as an extraordinary threat, as a hostile society". Since Fortuyn’s murder it has begun falling apart. "We feel like orphans," admitted the party’s new leader Mat Herben, a pocket-sized former Defense Ministry civil servant was quoted by the Guardian as saying. But challenges are still there. Former Prime Minister Jan-Peter Balkenende

Question:

LMAO!   Thank you, Steve…as always, another good laugh. Hugs, Gigglz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren’t people from Holland called Holes? (Sorry, Miss Anna ) If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen defrocked, doesn’t it follow that electricians can be delighted, musicians denoted, cowboys deranged, models deposed, tree surgeons debarked, and dry cleaners depressed? If Fed Ex and UPS were to merge, would they call it Fed UP? What hair color do they put on the driver’s licenses of bald men? Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn’t zigzag? Whatever happened to Preparations A through G? Y’all have a good day Steve. — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren’t people from Holland called Holes? (Sorry, Miss Anna )

        No, they’re Hollandaise!   If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen defrocked, doesn’t it follow that electricians can be delighted, musicians denoted, cowboys deranged, models deposed, tree surgeons debarked, and dry cleaners depressed?

        Engineers derailed, accountants discounted, surgeons excised, nurses weaned, teachers unlearned, chemists precipitated, dictators… If Fed Ex and UPS were to merge, would they call it Fed UP?

        UPSex? What hair color do they put on the driver’s licenses of bald men?

        Flesh. Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn’t zigzag?

        Look at an electric arc. Whatever happened to Preparations A through G?

        Constipated. <barf Dennis — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren’t people from Holland called Holes? (Sorry, Miss Anna ) If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen defrocked, doesn’t it follow that electricians can be delighted, musicians denoted, cowboys deranged, models deposed, tree surgeons debarked, and dry cleaners depressed? If Fed Ex and UPS were to merge, would they call it Fed UP? What hair color do they put on the driver’s licenses of bald men? Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn’t zigzag? Whatever happened to Preparations A through G? Y’all have a good day Steve. — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

I’m tired. There are some things I used to ignore or tolerate, but I’ve reached my breaking point, and I just can’t take this anymore. Don’t get me wrong, it’s nothing to do with personal issues or economy or family life or health or anything. I’m tired of what I see around me. Maybe it’s time for that little boy who yelled out the fact that the emperor is not wearing any clothes to come back and yell some more. First of all, don’t misunderstand me. I’m not racist or prejudiced or a hatemonger. I’m just tired of seeing what’s happening around me. I also know that times change and the planet evolves, but at some point, I have to yell out the old clich

Question:

snpd Look dummy, if you could just explain where actually you get off saying my stand with Justice infinite as the Son of Man, is BS, then maybe you’ll begin to look real foolish friend, anyway, check this Johnny power out..

snpd How To Lie About Iraq http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00033.htm Pentagon Plans to Gas US Citizens http://almartinraw.com/column73.html American soldiers call for rumsfeld’s demise http://rense.com/general30/ass.htm —-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SOUNDS LIKE THE MANTRA CHANTS OF A WHEENER OR ASSHOLE TO ME… snpd Facting rights! Mr. bush shall be arrested or executed by the living brave for freedom by Justice as humanity. As for his mindless nazi slaves whores, who advocate the destruction to the rights of all because of their personal contempt for themselves as cowards to not speak out for the murder of those they know to be … as would be … themselves but better … to where would hell with them see..?          Free to be living  justly for yourself            truly as caring to know this as everything           What a horrible day as history.  We witness the likes of The  happen  to  be  "wealthy"  as  extremely disturbing american,  Bill  Hemmer or Blitzer, or CBC’s corporately managed  professional news teams, who would as they have done,  propagandize  our  communities  with  intentional deceit  to not cover, the top priority established facts on our actual murders, and happily watch US fall further robbed, as Mr.  bush Jr.  victims, while feigning a just representation  on  behalf  of  our civilization.  Look, phone  them  yourself.   These corporate cultists do not offer any counter to the facts that stand before US all, but   for  to  practice  censorship  against  Humanities interest  in  nabbing the prime 9/11 suspects.  There is no  dispute  found  with  those  who  are  aware  of the evidence that directly implicates bush Jr.  And rumsfeld for  our  murders  on  9/11.   But  Bill doesn’t want to actually work for the People to protect the interests of Americans  as  police  officers,  such as those directly involved  in  the  criminal investigations, and instead, sides  to  leave yourself in the dark on bush Jr.’s true nature,   as   the  super  evil  anti-Christ,  actively, actually,  really,  no doubt about it, trying to further destroy  the  American  dream  as  no longer Our own as equals committed to freedom through representation. Destroy bush today and be loved by all as Saviour.

Snpd Jesus! What a ranter!                      Johnny is King So, i get the feeling that you’re not a Bush supporter ? Have you seen this pic ?? http://www.mg.co.za/ContentImages/11851/US-DETAINEES-PENTAGON-19.jpg                        enjoy

Wouldn’t you just kill to face tommy franks, bush, or rumsfeld as a real man? "What was the crime of the Taliban, and their children friend?", you would ask a bush supporting dumfuk american nazi whore soldier, and he would blankly go mute, and then run away as a coward to murder the defenceless, to leave their own families unprotected to fall further as victims to the anti-Christ, Our Mr. bush Jr. All Wrapped Up CBC as managed has deliberately with intent, worked to misinform and propagandize our community on what is as, documented provable fact, regarding Mr. bush’s complicity to the murder of US as the innocent in New York City. CBC has refused to live up to our responsibility to protect our democracy, and in silence, has pirated our names to murder those understood to be innocent of the accused offence. CBC has refused to allow ourselves as the public to understand, Mr. bush forbade the FBI from pursuing bin Laden investigations, just prior to 9/11 with secret Presidential directive W199I (199I WF213589), which had John O’Neil, the anti-terrorism head for the FBI publicly protest by resigning over. This W199I directive was put into place after the administration had been warned by the BND, and several other legitimate intelligence agencies, of an impending terrorist plot involving the high-jacking of American airplanes to be used as weapons and flown into land marks. In addition to these unreported top priority political issues that stand to be true as documented factually, the bush administration had also secretly put together a sinister war strategy, that was revealed to ourselves as the public, by Canada’s own Jim Miklaszewski at MSNBC, to have existed without any doubt as Presidential Directive documents, two days prior to 9/11 at the WhiteHouse. A planned strategy to invade specifically Afghanistan, by blaming bin Laden for a crime, but providing no evidence to back up the allegations. That’s right. The super evil criminal bush dictatorship had a plan in place to not follow the actual evidence to arrest the true culprits for a crime that hadn’t even yet taken place, but that they were prepared for to close investigations on, as an opportunity to invade specifically Afghanistan, propping up the Northern Alliance who still practice the barbarity of sharia law, with the bush bonuses of selling heroin to our world, and most importantly, building a liquefied natural gas pipe line for bush and his Enron friends, to rob even more further from us all. Legitimate FBI officers unrepresented by Mueller claim General Amad was the principle terrorist funder of Muhammad Atta, responsible for a wire transfer of $100,000, who, incidentally was in unusual meetings, the General was, with the bush administration a week prior to 9/11, who also not only participated in meetings with several top officials in the Senate Intelligence Committee, but also, was reported to participate in building the war strategy of invading Afghanistan, as the reported desperate excuse offered for the General being there just prior to 9/11, and also, was personally responsible for negotiating the non-surrender of bin Laden, of which the ISI claimed, the General advised the Taliban not to do so because, no evidence would be offered, nor public trial for an offence bin claimed he played no part of. We are all in agreement, in truth we rise, evil is just the deceived disguised. Boo! The case is wrapped up, and bush and rumsfeld need to be immediately arrested for 9/11, for murdering countless thousands for stolen gain, at the losses to our humanity, that show through every putrid utterance of scum bucket bush, as contempt for our living as humanity through Law. Where a person accused of a criminal offence without any evidence is clearly innocent. For why I ask you reader, would any unjustified leader of US people blame someone for a crime who wasn’t linked to the offense, while working to close investigations, and not follow through with the ample clues to capture the true evil doers? Just how cowardly stupid can soldier families be taken without conviction as themselves worth fighting for? Justice for all, and glory be to godly. Johnny Wizard whatreallyhappened.com globalresearch.ca Rumor Mill News Reading Room Forum RITTER PUTS HOLES IN CHENEY’S ALUMINUM TUBES STORY Posted By: Rosalinda [source: CNN, Sept. 9] RITTER PUTS HOLES IN CHENEY’S `ALUMINUM TUBES’ STORY AND OTHER LEAKY EXCUSES. In an interview iwth CNN today, former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter ridiculed the latest concoctions of the Mega crowd to justify an attack on Iraq. Excerpts follow: PAULA ZAHN (CNN): I want to have, hear your reaction to the whole range of Bush Administration officials yesterday who said .. that Saddam Hussein has been trying to obtain materials to build nuclear weapons, particularly trying to buy thousands of aluminum pipes that could be used in the manufacture of a centrifuge and ultimately used to manufacture weapons. What do you make of that? RITTER: What an absurd statement. Thousands of aluminum pipes, and we’re going to go to war over thousands of aluminum pipes? Even the IISS report that you cite says that if Iraq was to have trying to do uranium enrichment, it would take them many years before they could do it. This is patently ridiculous. These are aluminum pipes coming in for civilian use. They are not being transferred to a covert nuclear processing plant or any covert nuclear activity whatsoever. But the best way to figure this out is to send the weapons inspectors in. If they, if the United States has this evidence that Iraq has these pipes, why not, heck, give me the data. I’ll come to Iraq, hunt it down and we’ll bring it to a close. That would save us going to war, killing thousands of people and destroying our reputation in the international community. We cannot go to war because Vice President Cheney’s worried about some aluminum pipes. This is ridiculous…. ZAHN: Let’s talk more about what some say is the only independent voice in this whole argument, and that is the International Institute for Strategic Studies…. In this report, it suggests … that Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months if it had foreign help. Let me read to you what the conclusion was, that, "War sanctions and inspections have reversed and retarded but not … read more »

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Wanker.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr. bush the anti-Christ, is the most vile evil thing that ever will [stuff thaat makes me look like a Republican in my support for Bush] *mheh* M.

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Mr. bush the anti-Christ, is the most vile evil thing that ever will [stuff thaat makes me look like a Republican in my support for Bush] *mheh* M.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  snpd Look dummy, if you could just explain where actually you get off saying my stand with Justice infinite as the Son of Man, is BS, then maybe you’ll begin to look real foolish friend, anyway, check this Johnny power out.. snpd How To Lie About Iraq http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00033.htm Pentagon Plans to Gas US Citizens http://almartinraw.com/column73.html American soldiers call for rumsfeld’s demise http://rense.com/general30/ass.htm Snpd Jesus! What a ranter!                      Johnny is King So, i get the feeling that you’re not a Bush supporter ? Have you seen this pic ?? http://www.mg.co.za/ContentImages/11851/US-DETAINEES-PENTAGON-19.jpg                        enjoy

                     Kill bush Now! Ask  any  public  american  bush  supporter, why do they mindlessly   as  slaves  without  thought  to  question, advocate  as terrorists, the planned for murder of those known  by  all  to  be  innocent?  As yourself, publicly accused in our names without evidence, as done so by the bushmob is still, and will be for always, the high crime of   murder   in   the   first  degree.   A  crime  well established,  as  again, I am filing as voiced publicly, against  the  perpetrator  war  criminal  bush  Jr., and rotten  rumsfeld,  as  pirates of my freedom to live for such  willingly.   I  demand  their  immediate arrest or execution  as  confessed  guilty  for 9/11.  An american soldier to not do so, is no American Patriot, but a nazi coward,  and a traitor against all the nation as America for  the People enshrined by the Constitution, as equals under God, innocent until proven otherwise. Do  you think I’m going to go silent?, while the bushmob murders  innocent  people  in  humanity’s  name to steal freedom’s  won  value?, as garnered only through Justice ever  fought  for?   Do  you  think  US for a fool maybe corporate   devolving  human haters?   Mr.   bush  and rumsfeld,  who  with  General  Ahmad,  were  the central perpetrators   of   9/11,  as  the  actual  evidence  is concretely   established  by  the  FBI  and  MSNBC  with presidential  directive  documents,  with  no contention offered  from  anyone,  for  as  vile  evil is deceived, they’ve  already  confessed  to  the  deed as guilty of, against the American people as it’s Justice system is of ourselves truly living. But  yes,  american  soldiers are too weak minded to pay attention  as even alive apparently, according to almost all   American   corporate  news  broadcasts,  as  worth consideration whatsoever.  I’d have to agree, on general terms, americans soldiers represented, are cowardly nazi dumb fuck scums.  Read posts at us.military by signed so as  bush  whores.   Barely literate, who spout endlessly about  how  good  it  feels  to  drop bombs on US as the innocent  and practically defenseless, while cowering in fear  from  those  who  suggest  their job is to protect America  as  the  equal rights through law instills, not for   the  evil,  unelected  anti-Christ,  American  cop killer,  Our  Mr.   Bush  Jr.  to steal further from the American ideal. We  witness in silence to watch their OWN protectors run away  to  be  cowards  to  drop  bombs  on  ourselves in Afghanistan,  so  the  bushmob can sell heroin and leave the  Afghans  unprotected, and so further too, rifle all our  savings  as won for already battles.  A criminal is only  to be, as known so by evidence.  Those to hide the identity  of bush’s america war reason as good cause, is a deceived nation murdering innocent people to steal our purpose as themselves, unworthy.  Like evil tommy franks the terrorist does, murdering people indiscriminately as the  unrepresented  by  corporate  outrage, to be denied justice  for yourself too american dimwit.  Or rumsfeld, who  after  implementing  the  strategy  to  murder good police officers, offered a reward to kill Omar the Just, because Omar publicly suggested arresting the terrorists by  following  the  actual  ample  evidence  as the true American  belief  system  lost  to  the evil dictates of Un-American  rumsfeld’s  illegitimacy,  unchallenged  by corporate standards.  All of America’s intellectuals are forbidden  from public acknowledgement through corporate cult  standards,  though, like Chomsky, sell millions of books  almost  yearly  to  US masses.  Fuck, I’d destroy American traitor, American cop killer bush, rumsfeld, or death  squad  leader  tommy  franks in a heart beat, how about  you  American  Patriot  Soldier?   Evidence these three  sadistic  nazi  demon  child killers demand we no longer follow, to arrest the true criminals, for 9/11 as example,   which   would   be   naturally,  the  bushmob themselves,  headed  by  the  royal  dumb fuk, america’s false  deity,  the  anti-Christ,  Our Mr.  Bush Jr., the evilest  thing  that  has  ever  existed  in  the entire history   of  humanity.   The  american  corporate  news entertainers,  do  everything  they can, to rob from the great  American  people,  their  life savings and living standards,  by  actively  working  to  watch the bushmob destroy   the   American   Constitution   through  ample corporate  media  access,  er,  coverage  to  not  be so concerned  with  those  freedom living  matters  for our entertainment   value.    Ask   a  dumb  fuk  nazi  bush supporter,  what  a  regressive  tax  is, and they’ll go mindlessly  blank, while advocating the robbery of their Own  grand  parents  with VLTs, as their very own family being  cheated,  and  mislead, which is why, they are so stuck  ignorantly  evil,  and  dumb as themselves TRULY, honest to God, whoreshiping to bush as their all knowing false  god  unthinkingly.  Americans are truly dumb son. (2%  Social Security are what Americans are getting back in   themselves   as   investment,  but  the  nazi  bush supporters  don’t  want Americans to publicly figure the simple  math,  but  instead, to get access to CNN almost daily need only advocate further shysting, as americans, on   the  whole,  are  genuinely  stupid  to  be  conned generally  as a nation that, in total, holds the highest rates of illiteracy, innumeracy, incarceration, and just overall,  dumb fuckedness.) Mr.  rumsfeld tells american nazi   soldiers   he  wishes  to  torture  and  imprison completely  innocent  individuals  as would be their own brothers  and  sisters,  as  denying  us  all  legal due process,  while  purposefully,  publicly advocating more terrorism to benefit the coffers at the Pentagon, and do American  soldiers  not  just  shoot  him, and bush dead immediately  as  war  criminal  mad  men  on  the  loose re-offending?    No.   Not  present  anywhere  as  Brave Americans  ready  for sacrifice apparently.  Too fucking stoopid  to  tink  about  duh  American  flag  as  worth protecting  as their own brethren still living.  We hear corporate  america  go  on  about how important it is to murder  established as innocent people for no reason but to  put  more  money  in  bush  and  rumsfeld’s thieving pockets,     while     managing     CNN     for     less responsibility,(Less investment for the time spent, or.. more  money  for the buck right?) all over the arguments that  terrorist  threats  exist  secretly  that  no  one actually  knows  about, while I, Johnny Wizard, tell NRA members  publicly, and American soldiers to destroy bush and  rumsfeld  immediately  to  many thousands the world over,  relying  only  on  the  facts clearly documented. Yet,  corporate  america  makes  no  mention  about  the importance of practicing the tenants of law to apprehend the  two  demon  fascists, while instead, tells US those that  hate bush with a vengeance, just live in some cave hidden  away  unknown  somewhere  secretly,  and  do  so because…  We hate freedom under bush as dictator.  Mr. Bush,  you demon nazi freedom hater, you and me, a fight to  the  end,  bare  hands,  televised, world wide, then rumsfeld,  ashcroft,  and  finally  tommy franks and his wimp  ass  slave  boys.   The  evidence for 9/11 I stand with,  is  irrespective  of  my  opinion.   The  bushmob actually  killed  Americans in New York city, and no one can actually find disagreement with the documented to be true  facts,  not  the  FBI, the CIA, the RCMP, nor, the Secret  Service.   Nor any of the many police officers I have  spoken  honestly with.  But they, as the corporate cult  cogs  down  at corporate news command, continue to lie as the American public to be drawn cowardly conning, uninterested  in arresting or immediately executing bush and  rumsfeld as mass murderers, instead, to continue to murder  and  rob  from  those  they  believe are weak as underrepresented by corporate control without themselves as  US  being.  Ever.  Bill Hemmer knows bush killed all those many, like himself in New York City, and he speaks nothing  in  his  defense as a victim to his own shallow existence,  as  nor does he speak in defense of soldiers sacrificed  to  be  as  easily  propagandized  to become traitors  to  their  own family and neighbors.  Well, I, for  one,  am  willing  to  mark  down cowardly american soldiers  for what they truly are individually, and will continue to Fight as I have, as a true American Patriot, until,  those  left  standing for Freedom, are those who uphold  the  Amercan  principles  as law in the American Constitution,  and  the  Bill  of Rights, to garner true happiness  for  the  American Nation of Human beings the Universe  over.   Think  NRA  member.  I’ll

… read more »

Response:

snpd Well, I try to encourage people to use their own ability to defend themselves from being robbed and murdered by the bushmob, but the fascist traitors in America, just laugh at their own family left to be sacrificed, while blaming me, or US, for not doing more as Jesus, so.. You’ll notice, no true Patriot, willing to discuss our political realities, find disagreement with our findings. Only those that wish to harm us as the innocent to be robbed, or left for murdered by the bushmob, spout irrationally to have themselves… What? Let’s discuss it friend. — Kill bush Now! Ask any public american bush supporter, why do they mindlessly as slaves without thought to question, advocate as terrorists, the planned for murder of those known by all to be innocent? As yourself, publicly accused in our names without evidence, as done so by the bushmob is still, and will be for always, the high crime of murder in the first degree. A crime well established, as again, I am filing as voiced publicly, against the perpetrator war criminal bush Jr., and rotten rumsfeld, as pirates of my freedom to live for such willingly. I demand their immediate arrest or execution as confessed guilty for 9/11. An american soldier to not do so, is no American Patriot, but a nazi coward, and a traitor against all the nation as America for the People enshrined by the Constitution, as equals under God, innocent until proven otherwise. Do you think I’m going to go silent?, while the bushmob murders innocent people in humanity’s name to steal freedom’s won value?, as garnered only through Justice ever fought for? Do you think US for a fool maybe corporate devolving human haters? Mr. bush and rumsfeld, who with General Ahmad, were the central perpetrators of 9/11, as the actual evidence is concretely established by the FBI and MSNBC with presidential directive documents, with no contention offered from anyone, for as vile evil is deceived, they’ve already confessed to the deed as guilty of, against the American people as it’s Justice system is of ourselves truly living. But yes, american soldiers are too weak minded to pay attention as even alive apparently, according to almost all American corporate news broadcasts, as worth consideration whatsoever. I’d have to agree, on general terms, americans soldiers represented, are cowardly nazi dumb fuck scums. Read posts at us.military by signed so as bush whores. Barely literate, who spout endlessly about how good it feels to drop bombs on US as the innocent and practically defenseless, while cowering in fear from those who suggest their job is to protect America as the equal rights through law instills, not for the evil, unelected anti-Christ, American cop killer, Our Mr. Bush Jr. to steal further from the American ideal. We witness in silence to watch their OWN protectors run away to be cowards to drop bombs on ourselves in Afghanistan, so the bushmob can sell heroin and leave the Afghans unprotected, and so further too, rifle all our savings as won for already battles. A criminal is only to be, as known so by evidence. Those to hide the identity of bush’s america war reason as good cause, is a deceived nation murdering innocent people to steal our purpose as themselves, unworthy. Like evil tommy franks the terrorist does, murdering people indiscriminately as the unrepresented by corporate outrage, to be denied justice for yourself too american dimwit. Or rumsfeld, who after implementing the strategy to murder good police officers, offered a reward to kill Omar the Just, because Omar publicly suggested arresting the terrorists by following the actual ample evidence as the true American belief system lost to the evil dictates of Un-American rumsfeld’s illegitimacy, unchallenged by corporate standards. All of America’s intellectuals are forbidden from public acknowledgement through corporate cult standards, though, like Chomsky, sell millions of books almost yearly to US masses. Fuck, I’d destroy American traitor, American cop killer bush, rumsfeld, or death squad leader tommy franks in a heart beat, how about you American Patriot Soldier? Evidence these three sadistic nazi demon child killers demand we no longer follow, to arrest the true criminals, for 9/11 as example, which would be naturally, the bushmob themselves, headed by the royal dumb fuk, america’s false deity, the anti-Christ, Our Mr. Bush Jr., the evilest thing that has ever existed in the entire history of humanity. The american corporate news entertainers, do everything they can, to rob from the great American people, their life savings and living standards, by actively working to watch the bushmob destroy the American Constitution through ample corporate media access, er, coverage to not be so concerned with those freedom living matters for our entertainment value. Ask a dumb fuk nazi bush supporter, what a regressive tax is, and they’ll go mindlessly blank, while advocating the robbery of their Own grand parents with VLTs, as their very own family being cheated, and mislead, which is why, they are so stuck ignorantly evil, and dumb as themselves TRULY, honest to God, whoreshiping to bush as their all knowing false god unthinkingly. Americans are truly dumb son. (2% Social Security are what Americans are getting back in themselves as investment, but the nazi bush supporters don’t want Americans to publicly figure the simple math, but instead, to get access to CNN almost daily need only advocate further shysting, as americans, on the whole, are genuinely stupid to be conned generally as a nation that, in total, holds the highest rates of illiteracy, innumeracy, incarceration, and just overall, dumb fuckedness.) Mr. rumsfeld tells american nazi soldiers he wishes to torture and imprison completely innocent individuals as would be their own brothers and sisters, as denying us all legal due process, while purposefully, publicly advocating more terrorism to benefit the coffers at the Pentagon, and do American soldiers not just shoot him, and bush dead immediately as war criminal mad men on the loose re-offending? No. Not present anywhere as Brave Americans ready for sacrifice apparently. Too fucking stoopid to tink about duh American flag as worth protecting as their own brethren still living. We hear corporate america go on about how important it is to murder established as innocent people for no reason but to put more money in bush and rumsfeld’s thieving pockets, while managing CNN for less responsibility,(Less investment for the time spent, or.. more money for the buck right?) all over the arguments that terrorist threats exist secretly that no one actually knows about, while I, Johnny Wizard, tell NRA members publicly, and American soldiers to destroy bush and rumsfeld immediately to many thousands the world over, relying only on the facts clearly documented. Yet, corporate america makes no mention about the importance of practicing the tenants of law to apprehend the two demon fascists, while instead, tells US those that hate bush with a vengeance, just live in some cave hidden away unknown somewhere secretly, and do so because… We hate freedom under bush as dictator. Mr. Bush, you demon nazi freedom hater, you and me, a fight to the end, bare hands, televised, world wide, then rumsfeld, ashcroft, and finally tommy franks and his wimp ass slave boys. The evidence for 9/11 I stand with, is irrespective of my opinion. The bushmob actually killed Americans in New York city, and no one can actually find disagreement with the documented to be true facts, not the FBI, the CIA, the RCMP, nor, the Secret Service. Nor any of the many police officers I have spoken honestly with. But they, as the corporate cult cogs down at corporate news command, continue to lie as the American public to be drawn cowardly conning, uninterested in arresting or immediately executing bush and rumsfeld as mass murderers, instead, to continue to murder and rob from those they believe are weak as underrepresented by corporate control without themselves as US being. Ever. Bill Hemmer knows bush killed all those many, like himself in New York City, and he speaks nothing in his defense as a victim to his own shallow existence, as nor does he speak in defense of soldiers sacrificed to be as easily propagandized to become traitors to their own family and neighbors. Well, I, for one, am willing to mark down cowardly american soldiers for what they truly are individually, and will continue to Fight as I have, as a true American Patriot, until, those left standing for Freedom, are those who uphold the Amercan principles as law in the American Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, to garner true happiness for the American Nation of Human beings the Universe over. Think NRA member. I’ll post this to practically every American military usenet group, and not one American Soldier will articulate a disagreement with our findings as documented, however, CNN will continue to broadcast, that WE, the God Loving, the Just Living, the Atheists, are a poor minority worth sacrifice in the millions for demon bush as the unheard publicly from on the importance of your Justice to be so. That they, the corporate cultists, wish YOUR unquestioning faith and dying obedience for bush to suffer and die undeserving for, is as they witness our world to be what they see to be themselves. Practicing their machinations as corporate agenda. Unthinking… Spooky. Kill bush now! Johnny Wizard — Is Enron Behind The War In Afghanistan? http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html — Look, American soldier.. You now should know, bush and rumsfeld murdered Americans in New York City, and as consequence, have no interest in acknowledging as pursued the criminal … read more »

Response:

Plonk "Mr. bush Jr., the anti-American, war mongering American cop killer, must be

thing that ever will exist…  In case you weren’t aware of ourselves.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snpd Well, I try to encourage people to use their own ability to defend themselves from being robbed and murdered by the bushmob, but the fascist traitors in America, just laugh at their own family left to be sacrificed, while blaming me, or US, for not doing more as Jesus, so.. You’ll notice, no true Patriot, willing to discuss our political realities, find disagreement with our findings. Only those that wish to harm us as the innocent to be robbed, or left for murdered by the bushmob, spout irrationally to have themselves… What? Let’s discuss it friend. — Kill bush Now! Ask any public american bush supporter, why do they mindlessly as slaves without thought to question, advocate as terrorists, the planned for murder of those known by all to be innocent? As yourself, publicly accused in our names without evidence, as done so by the bushmob is still, and will be for always, the high crime of murder in the first degree. A crime well established, as again, I am filing as voiced publicly, against the perpetrator war criminal bush Jr., and rotten rumsfeld, as pirates of my freedom to live for such willingly. I demand their immediate arrest or execution as confessed guilty for 9/11. An american soldier to not do so, is no American Patriot, but a nazi coward, and a traitor against all the nation as America for the People enshrined by the Constitution, as equals under God, innocent until proven otherwise. Do you think I’m going to go silent?, while the bushmob murders innocent people in humanity’s name to steal freedom’s won value?, as garnered only through Justice ever fought for? Do you think US for a fool maybe corporate devolving human haters? Mr. bush and rumsfeld, who with General Ahmad, were the central perpetrators of 9/11, as the actual evidence is concretely established by the FBI and MSNBC with presidential directive documents, with no contention offered from anyone, for as vile evil is deceived, they’ve already confessed to the deed as guilty of, against the American people as it’s Justice system is of ourselves truly living. But yes, american soldiers are too weak minded to pay attention as even alive apparently, according to almost all American corporate news broadcasts, as worth consideration whatsoever. I’d have to agree, on general terms, americans soldiers represented, are cowardly nazi dumb fuck scums. Read posts at us.military by signed so as bush whores. Barely literate, who spout endlessly about how good it feels to drop bombs on US as the innocent and practically defenseless, while cowering in fear from those who suggest their job is to protect America as the equal rights through law instills, not for the evil, unelected anti-Christ, American cop killer, Our Mr. Bush Jr. to steal further from the American ideal. We witness in silence to watch their OWN protectors run away to be cowards to drop bombs on ourselves in Afghanistan, so the bushmob can sell heroin and leave the Afghans unprotected, and so further too, rifle all our savings as won for already battles. A criminal is only to be, as known so by evidence. Those to hide the identity of bush’s america war reason as good cause, is a deceived nation murdering innocent people to steal our purpose as themselves, unworthy. Like evil tommy franks the terrorist does, murdering people indiscriminately as the unrepresented by corporate outrage, to be denied justice for yourself too american dimwit. Or rumsfeld, who after implementing the strategy to murder good police officers, offered a reward to kill Omar the Just, because Omar publicly suggested arresting the terrorists by following the actual ample evidence as the true American belief system lost to the evil dictates of Un-American rumsfeld’s illegitimacy, unchallenged by corporate standards. All of America’s intellectuals are forbidden from public acknowledgement through corporate cult standards, though, like Chomsky, sell millions of books almost yearly to US masses. Fuck, I’d destroy American traitor, American cop killer bush, rumsfeld, or death squad leader tommy franks in a heart beat, how about you American Patriot Soldier? Evidence these three sadistic nazi demon child killers demand we no longer follow, to arrest the true criminals, for 9/11 as example, which would be naturally, the bushmob themselves, headed by the royal dumb fuk, america’s false deity, the anti-Christ, Our Mr. Bush Jr., the evilest thing that has ever existed in the entire history of humanity. The american corporate news entertainers, do everything they can, to rob from the great American people, their life savings and living standards, by actively working to watch the bushmob destroy the American Constitution through ample corporate media access, er, coverage to not be so concerned with those freedom living matters for our entertainment value. Ask a dumb fuk nazi bush supporter, what a regressive tax is, and they’ll go mindlessly blank, while advocating the robbery of their Own grand parents with VLTs, as their very own family being cheated, and mislead, which is why, they are so stuck ignorantly evil, and dumb as themselves TRULY, honest to God, whoreshiping to bush as their all knowing false god unthinkingly. Americans are truly dumb son. (2% Social Security are what Americans are getting back in themselves as investment, but the nazi bush supporters don’t want Americans to publicly figure the simple math, but instead, to get access to CNN almost daily need only advocate further shysting, as americans, on the whole, are genuinely stupid to be conned generally as a nation that, in total, holds the highest rates of illiteracy, innumeracy, incarceration, and just overall, dumb fuckedness.) Mr. rumsfeld tells american nazi soldiers he wishes to torture and imprison completely innocent individuals as would be their own brothers and sisters, as denying us all legal due process, while purposefully, publicly advocating more terrorism to benefit the coffers at the Pentagon, and do American soldiers not just shoot him, and bush dead immediately as war criminal mad men on the loose re-offending? No. Not present anywhere as Brave Americans ready for sacrifice apparently. Too fucking stoopid to tink about duh American flag as worth protecting as their own brethren still living. We hear corporate america go on about how important it is to murder established as innocent people for no reason but to put more money in bush and rumsfeld’s thieving pockets, while managing CNN for less responsibility,(Less investment for the time spent, or.. more money for the buck right?) all over the arguments that terrorist threats exist secretly that no one actually knows about, while I, Johnny Wizard, tell NRA members publicly, and American soldiers to destroy bush and rumsfeld immediately to many thousands the world over, relying only on the facts clearly documented. Yet, corporate america makes no mention about the importance of practicing the tenants of law to apprehend the two demon fascists, while instead, tells US those that hate bush with a vengeance, just live in some cave hidden away unknown somewhere secretly, and do so because… We hate freedom under bush as dictator. Mr. Bush, you demon nazi freedom hater, you and me, a fight to the end, bare hands, televised, world wide, then rumsfeld, ashcroft, and finally tommy franks and his wimp ass slave boys. The evidence for 9/11 I stand with, is irrespective of my opinion. The bushmob actually killed Americans in New York city, and no one can actually find disagreement with the documented to be true facts, not the FBI, the CIA, the RCMP, nor, the Secret Service. Nor any of the many police officers I have spoken honestly with. But they, as the corporate cult cogs down at corporate news command, continue to lie as the American public to be drawn cowardly conning, uninterested in arresting or immediately executing bush and rumsfeld as mass murderers, instead, to continue to murder and rob from those they believe are weak as underrepresented by corporate control without themselves as US being. Ever. Bill Hemmer knows bush killed all those many, like himself in New York City, and he speaks nothing in his defense as a victim to his own shallow existence, as nor does he speak in defense of soldiers sacrificed to be as easily propagandized to become traitors to their own family and neighbors. Well, I, for one, am willing to mark down cowardly american soldiers for what they truly are individually, and will continue to Fight as I have, as a true American Patriot, until, those left standing for Freedom, are those who uphold the Amercan principles as law in the American Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, to garner true happiness for the American Nation of Human beings the Universe over. Think NRA member. I’ll post this to practically every American military usenet group, and not one American Soldier will articulate a disagreement with our findings as documented, however, CNN will continue to broadcast, that WE, the God Loving, the Just Living, the Atheists, are a poor minority worth sacrifice in the millions for demon bush as the unheard publicly from on the importance of your Justice to

… read more »

Response:

 snpd Look dummy, if you could just explain where actually you get off saying my stand with Justice infinite as the Son of Man, is BS, then maybe you’ll begin to look real foolish friend, anyway, check this Johnny power out..

Defense of one’s own family, is as Natural as Nature. In the natural progression of things, rarely, if never, do other animals, with the exeption of bushmobsters, murder innocent others, for no other reason, but to make US suffer and die as robbed and murdered continually. Most suffering doesn’t have to be happening, but for our ignorance on our ability to instigate change through communicating. The main problem I feel we have as a species, is recognizing doubt is an ever present element of living, and measuring what we can understand to be true irrespective of opinion, as it relates to the function of indivisable Justice, in America, is not understood well as they blindly steal from themselves unrepresented politically under criminal dictatorship. And, strangely to most I would suppose, I never the less, truly exist to speak my mind as a god, the Son of Man if you will, an equal among all to know so. — From below: In It for US "Your either with US as equals under a rule of law as Universal Justice, or your a mindless slave whore Sacrificing your soul for bush, the anti-Christ, who will as he continues, stealing and murdering from our families without any good reason, or provocations as evil incarnate he is to US all." (Just another of those Youisms from Johnny, the Lord.) Then, a little later, some scribbles on the nazi terrorist Jew hater, that super evil mass murdering lifeless lump of waste byproduct, the leach whom we all know so well truly as a parasite of life’s will to steal ourselves from God as plundered, the stenching, blood soaked monster, henry kissing.. er.. ariel sharon: "How can killing, torturing, and [then] destroying the homes of [US] innocent civilians be considered anything but, terrorism?" Hey, what do you say in stopping them hurting US, by destroying them both American Patriot?, as we now let ourselves sort it out in the here after? Eh? Wake up friend… Then even further, don’t miss, the highly anticipated, "Corporate Street Gangs – Monsanto" that lists the ACTUAL individual people never mentioned by CNN, who perpetrate those hanious crimes against the American Public, and who have so far, escaped incarceration as multi-millionaire corporate successes. Again, none of any words world wide bare contention against the facts we’ve brought to our attention. The traitors to America, Our Mr. bush Jr. and rotten rumsfeld don’t mention the willingness of American Soldiers to apprehend general Ahmad as the principle terrorist funder of Atta, because this general is also responsible for developing the bushmob strategy of killing Americans in New York City from Washington. A strategy of blaming bin Laden without any evidence to bomb Afghanistan for Enron. (The Dahbol Working Group.) Then closing criminal investigations, as it’s not important to know who personally was responsible for the insider trades, or the contacting of only Odigo. Never mentioned by CNN as top priority to American soldier concerns, who are expected by Blitzer and Hemmer to throw away their lives in sacrifice unthinking to bush, america’s false deity, super evil anti-Christ.  While bush and cheney threaten to murder more dumb Americans who would dare to articulate the demand for Justice as our own, like Laden has, while demanding American Patriots cower in fear of the sadistic savage mass murdering death squad leader, tommy franks, or the anti-Christ going out to kill their family too as not represented by corporate policy, while American soldier families are continually disrespected as unworthy. (Generally, they are pretty damn stoopid, but certainly, if they’re not knowingly committing first degree murders for the anti-Christ as pure nazi filth, they should be allowed to learn, instead of having their own undefended families robbed then slaughtered for American traitor, nazi puke terrorist, tommy franks, or for Monsanto’s rotten rumsfeld.  Do you notice corporate America continues to show outdated footage of those two demons standing near smiling armed American soldiers, who as a mass of dumfuks, aren’t intelligent enough to destroy them instantly as established ememies of America as terrorists?  Well, that is going to change.  I have yet to find ANY American Soldier who is literate, who disagrees WE have some very important questions that need immediate answers before the bushmob murders more Americans in Our name.  See for yourself through Google if you don’t believe in Christ as the Redeemer. As for the doubting American Soldier, LOOK, CNN will continue as cult members in their dying madness of just even lamer excuses, to convince US, we are alone in our concerns for Freedom as Justice instills for US all. This moment of History requires you to stand strong for only yourself to be represented truly among the stars. Evil stupid people can’t make heads or tails of this, but, as evil bush does truly from his dark shallow existence, will continue by open piracy, to publicly advocate in Our names the further robbing and murder of your own family American Patriot, so too, will more american nazi dumfuks die to the tune of their own cowardice to protect themselves as garnered fairly. This is why rotten rumsfeld forbids the death tally of American soldiers to be made public to the ready for enlistment as the too dumb to know better.  Life is life, and sorry to say american dumfuks, Christ on the cross is you too as a true dying American Patriot, and your already politically sitting in the bush slave whore position of hatred and injustice against Humanity and myself honestly as..  THE SON OF MAN!  (The for real, no illusion, god of God’s life/death trade barter, with a score to settle on behalf of the infinite Universe and True brave Soldiers everywhere.  KILL AMERICAN COP KILLER BUSH NOW BEFORE HE MURDERS MORE LIKE OURSELVES IN OUR NAME AS THE INNOCENT COWARDS!) THINK, if I fly down there to Washington as a simple man, and destroy the cop killing demon monsters bush, rumsfeld, cheney, and franks with my bare hands in love as the timid Jesus of folklore, while salivating, how is that going to look to the perishioners, who, God love’em, just wouldn’t understand the finer art of akeido, huh? CNN is not interested in working for American interests by asking why, as there is little of any money in just doing good for your neighbor, like saving a living, as we would wish to be helped for ourselves, if we were bound just the same to be equals at being.  Mr.  Blitzer and Bill Hemmer, as americans, wouldn’t give a dollar of your time, to speak on human rights to be of their own concern, (they’re already rich by theft without talent as dying our death by murder as not spoken for really. Just like how they refuse to report on the blatant criminal lottery operations that steal from EVERYONE.) or to save the life of an innocent poor victim, if it meant they would therefor, be compelled to honestly report on their false deity bush, corporate america’s super evil criminal to ourselves as Humanity, the unelected dictator, American cop killing anti-Christ in person!, that they so leave to see Americans sacrificed as ignored to be robbed from, as their profit margin increases, from their, holyier than thou pulpits, leaving You all to get robbed and murdered by dumb nazi scum like reject tommy franks, the terrorizing death squad leader, woman and child killer.  We’re sure CNN, as others would say, as they do regarding sharon’s murder rampages against the innocent as God, nothing. Do less for America, The dying from stupidity People, and get payed more in collateral damages paid for by doubting Patriots, now mostly too slow to stand for the American flag in protection for their own living as lost to the wind without freedom to guide their own convictions.  Mr.  bush, tommy, rumsfeld, cheney and blair give no evidence to back an american soldier’s reason, but for to show themselves as the criminals who openly harbor terrorist activity against our communities, and WE, as Humanity, according to CNN, are expected to go out and kill our family and friends in cowardice, instead of standing up to destroy the evil demon bush instead, to save our own selves as worth consideration. God, or no God, I hate that murderer bush as much as any real man would to care for his own life as family. Johnny Wizard — HTTX 2.0b Title: Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq Published on Saturday, November 30, 2002 by CommonDreams.org Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq by Heather Wokusch D-Day of December 8th quietly approaches – the day Iraq must provide the UN Security Council with a complete accounting of its weapons programs, plus its civilian chemical/biological/nuclear production and research activities. Even though UN weapons inspectors have criticized the December 8th deadline as unrealizable, the consequences for missing it will be catastrophic: Iraq will be in "material breach" of UN resolution 1441, and therefore subject to swift and decisive military action. But at this point, UN 1441 seems little more than a whitewash pretext for a US-led attack on Iraq. With US warplanes patrolling Iraq’s no-fly zone, bombing raids against Iraq ongoing, multiple aircraft carriers on alert and … read more »

Response:

Question:

 Quiz results Have you ever taken the "World’s Smallest Political Quiz?" If so, how’d you do? Did you discover you were a libertarian? As the results show, the overwhelming majority of the 800,000+ people who have taken the test at that site are. Even accounting for the fact that this is a libertarian political site, so libertarians are more likely than others to take this quiz, the results are still remarkable. The percentage of "libertarians" as determined by…..  http://world.std.com/~mhuben/rupright.html — Jenn The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steven Biko Before you buy.

Response:

Quiz results Have you ever taken the "World’s Smallest Political Quiz?" If so, how’d you do? Did you discover you were a libertarian? As the results show, the overwhelming majority of the 800,000+ people who have taken the test at that site are. Even accounting for the fact that this is a libertarian political site, so libertarians are more likely than others to take this quiz, the results are still remarkable. The percentage of "libertarians" as determined by…..

Took the quiz. Ended up a "Green," but I pretty much knew that. A.

Response:

Question:

I’ve never heard of a "taxable fringe benefit" as you describe it below.  A business deduction is not taxed and is not reported on any thing like a W2 where I come from.  It is simply an itemized deduction on the corporate return. Since there is little or no business reason to own the airplane other than to provide it to the owner,  if the benefit is not reported on W2 penalties

I don’t know, Jim. I’m from Alabama, too, and when I had a company car, the value of my personal mileage certainly WAS reported on my W2. (I did not have to reimburse the employer — it was a taxable fringe benefit.) Deductible to the employer, and imputed income to me. As another example, my group life insurance in excess of $50,000 is a taxable fringe benefit, tax deductible to the company and imputed income (at specified rates) to me. — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

In your case the plane sound like it is a business expense and not a fringe benefit.  In Jay’s case (as stated), aircraft expenses are not business expenses and are not deductible by the business.

Since he’s an S corp. If a C corp, it would be [presumably] deductible to the corp as compensation expense and taxable to Jay as imputed income. — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

Eh?  Liability and protection of personal assets are the one of the main reasons corps are formed.  That plus taxes. Of course, these days, anyone can be sued for any reason by anybody for unlimited bucks but that’s beside the point. Why do you say that? Jim Fisher

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having the airplane owned by a corporation won’t protect your assets if you crash and are the pilot.  It might protect them if someone else crashed the plane. Mike MU-2

Response:

In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too. (I wasn’t so bold as to try THAT one!)

No problem, however, remember that they will have to determine the value of that Bonus and add it to his taxable income. As it turns out, we use the plane for business regularly — but personal use is far greater.  Any tax guys out there to answer this one?  My tax accountant hasn’t batted an eye on this one in yet — but maybe he’s wrong?

As long as you keep all the deductions etc…appropriately scaled (and have contemporaneous records for such) to the business part of the use everything is fine.  The IRS doesn’t really deal with it any different than cars.

Response:

The corp shields you from liability as the plane’s owner, but not as the pilot. Same as if you were flying a rented plane. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eh?  Liability and protection of personal assets are the one of the main reasons corps are formed.  That plus taxes. Of course, these days, anyone can be sued for any reason by anybody for unlimited bucks but that’s beside the point. Why do you say that? Jim Fisher Having the airplane owned by a corporation won’t protect your assets if you crash and are the pilot.  It might protect them if someone else crashed the plane. Mike MU-2

– Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

You will be liable because you are the PILOT.  You would be personably liable even if you or your company didn’t own the airplane.  Corporations don’t shield anyone from their own actions. Mike MU-2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eh?  Liability and protection of personal assets are the one of the main reasons corps are formed.  That plus taxes. Of course, these days, anyone can be sued for any reason by anybody for unlimited bucks but that’s beside the point. Why do you say that? Jim Fisher Having the airplane owned by a corporation won’t protect your assets if you crash and are the pilot.  It might protect them if someone else crashed the plane. Mike MU-2

Response:

You are mostly correct, it would be taxable to the recipient not the corporation.  If I decided that my corp will buy a house in Jackson Hole for my (employee of corp) use, then the value of the use of the house is taxable and is reported on form W2.  It is the same as if the corporation paid to rent the house for my use. In your case the plane sound like it is a business expense and not a fringe benefit.  In Jay’s case (as stated), aircraft expenses are not business expenses and are not deductible by the business. Mike MU-2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I neglected to mention that my scenario departed from the original scenario in one important way:  My scenario assumes that the plane is used primarily for business purposes and that all expenses are perfectly legitimate. There are no cans of worms to be found here.  I was only attempting to answer your original question of what advantage there would be to having a company own a plane. I’ve never heard of a "taxable fringe benefit" as you describe it below.  A business deduction is not taxed and is not reported on any thing like a W2 where I come from.  It is simply an itemized deduction on the corporate return. Jim Fisher North Alabama Jay would have $5000 in taxable fringe benefits which must be reported. This is a can of worms and could lead to problems if one gets audited. Since there is little or no business reason to own the airplane other than to provide it to the owner,  if the benefit is not reported on W2 penalties will likely be assessed. Mike MU-2 Successful Capitalist

Response:

I neglected to mention that my scenario departed from the original scenario in one important way:  My scenario assumes that the plane is used primarily for business purposes and that all expenses are perfectly legitimate.  There are no cans of worms to be found here.  I was only attempting to answer your original question of what advantage there would be to having a company own a plane. I’ve never heard of a "taxable fringe benefit" as you describe it below.  A business deduction is not taxed and is not reported on any thing like a W2 where I come from.  It is simply an itemized deduction on the corporate return. Jim Fisher North Alabama

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jay would have $5000 in taxable fringe benefits which must be reported. This is a can of worms and could lead to problems if one gets audited. Since there is little or no business reason to own the airplane other than to provide it to the owner,  if the benefit is not reported on W2 penalties will likely be assessed. Mike MU-2 Successful Capitalist

Response:

Having the airplane owned by a corporation won’t protect your assets if you crash and are the pilot.  It might protect them if someone else crashed the plane. Mike MU-2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My plane’s corporation was set up for the sole purpose of pleasure flying. That is what the "business" does and nothing else.  It was set up to, (a); protect my assets if I corkscrew into an apartment complex and (b); provide a simple, efficient and tax-friendly means of managing the assets of the company (the plane) and (c): provide for an easy means of selling shares in our company to others who wish to join us or if somebody wants to bail out. Most of this stuff is spelled out in the corporation’s Letters of Incorporation.  I bet your Letter don’t say much about a plane, does it? The purpose of YOUR corporation is to deliver circulars and doesn’t have a whole lot to do with flying.  If I were to let my company buy my plane for me, I would definately receive the liability protection afforded by the corporation but my accountant probably would attempt to disuade me from writing everything off. He also said that — so long as the Board of Directors okays the purchase — any corporation can legally own an airplane.  It’s no different than buying a truck, or computers — or any other major outlay. Your bank MAY have been considering the liability side of this ONLY.  In that case, it WOULD be foolish to form another corporation.  In my case, I’d have to make my plane partners my business partners.  I like these fellers but I don’t wanna be in business with ‘em! In my case, I really don’t expect think there much of a tax benefit in havin g a seperate corporationn own the plane.  I reckon I’ll find out when I eventually do my taxes (still have a few days, ya’ know). In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too. (I wasn’t so bold as to try THAT one!) And my accountant says that I COULD let the company buy me a Dodge Viper (and a plane for that matter, I reckon) but says that the Uncle Sam MAY frown upon me.  I do NOT wanna be frowned at by that guy! Jim Fisher Cherokee 180C North Alabama

Response:

Hypothetical question #1:  Why would it matter how much my company uses the plane on "business", so long as all personal usage is reimbursed?

First, let me say that I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about here. I’m a computer nerd, not an accountant.  Like you, I pay accountants to know all this stuff for me.  The following statements are theories I have developed from information my accountant has realyed to me over the years and may have no basis in fact.  I also know that YOU know as much or more about this stuff than I. But we both like a good debate.  ;-) That being said . . . .: It matters for the same reason that you could not get away with buying a $150,000 motor home for your business if you rarely used said motor home for business purposes.  Otherwise, why not have your company buy your house, lawn tractor and beach house?  You can’t do that ’cause they aren’t used for business or, if they are, not used enough to report it to Uncle Sam. People DO, in fact, allow their company to buy beach houses and other stuff. But some of these same people get taken to the cleaners when the IRS disagrees with their accountant.  Backpayments and interest are okay but IRS penalties for gross "miscalculations" really suck. This is not to say that you cannot re-imburse yourself for expenses involved with company functions related to owning these assets, of course.  If you throw a big coompany party in your motor home, you can let the company pay for the party and the flat tire you get from running over a beer bottle . . . but you already know all that, of course. All this being said, (and I backtrack on my "percentage theory" a little) if you or your accountant can prove to the IRS that having this plane is necessary to performing your duties as president and furthers the profitability of the company, you are perfectly within your rights to write it off.  Even if you only use it once a year.  Your only obligation is to prove your case to our Uncle. not to your accountant or banker.  That once per year trip better be a very important and/or profitable one if you want Uncle to pay for you plane the whole year! I don’t think my accountant would let me get away with having the company buy my plane.  But that may change as I use the plane more and more for business. Hypothetical question #2: Assuming the company NEVER uses the plane, how would this be any different than the corporation you have set up for the sole purpose of owning the plane?

My plane’s corporation was set up for the sole purpose of pleasure flying. That is what the "business" does and nothing else.  It was set up to, (a); protect my assets if I corkscrew into an apartment complex and (b); provide a simple, efficient and tax-friendly means of managing the assets of the company (the plane) and (c): provide for an easy means of selling shares in our company to others who wish to join us or if somebody wants to bail out. Most of this stuff is spelled out in the corporation’s Letters of Incorporation.  I bet your Letter don’t say much about a plane, does it? The purpose of YOUR corporation is to deliver circulars and doesn’t have a whole lot to do with flying.  If I were to let my company buy my plane for me, I would definately receive the liability protection afforded by the corporation but my accountant probably would attempt to disuade me from writing everything off. He also said that — so long as the Board of Directors okays the purchase — any corporation can legally own an airplane.  It’s no different than buying a truck, or computers — or any other major outlay.

Your bank MAY have been considering the liability side of this ONLY.  In that case, it WOULD be foolish to form another corporation.  In my case, I’d have to make my plane partners my business partners.  I like these fellers but I don’t wanna be in business with ‘em! In my case, I really don’t expect think there much of a tax benefit in havin g a seperate corporationn own the plane.  I reckon I’ll find out when I eventually do my taxes (still have a few days, ya’ know). In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too. (I wasn’t so bold as to try THAT one!)

And my accountant says that I COULD let the company buy me a Dodge Viper (and a plane for that matter, I reckon) but says that the Uncle Sam MAY frown upon me.  I do NOT wanna be frowned at by that guy! Jim Fisher Cherokee 180C North Alabama

Response:

James, this thread has gone on a tangent slightly away from the training question, but I wanted to share my initial reactions to your post. While they are a little on the smart-assed side, there is a kernel of truth that might help you evaluate this. I am currently training to get my private pilots license. I am also an owner of a small business. I have an airport nearby and could benefit from being able to fly to clients who need me to work onsite. Does anyone know if I can expense my training or even the purchase of a plane?

Yes. You can expense whatever you want; they are your books. Now if you are a public company and need to get an auditor’s opinion, you may get a qualified opinion if you claim a material expense with which they do not agree, but you still can expense it. Another question is "Can I deduct it in determining taxable income?" The answer is certainly "yes". Maybe even legally, if you have a sound rationale for doing so. Most of the responses so far have been to still a third question: "Will the IRS allow a deduction, and if not, will the tax court be likely to back up the IRS position?" This was probably the intent of your question. However, keeping these distinctions in mind may be helpful. Just a business person; NOT a tax advisor, so FWIW… — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

And this explains why, in my previous note, I said "IF you reimburse at completely reasonable rates." This note explains the potential gain if you reimburse the company for less than full cost (e.g., $1,000, when full bill was $5,000) and don’t get caught. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In this example, Jay’s company owns the plane.  His company makes all the payments.  Pays for all maintenance and all other incidental expanses.  Jay simply pays his company back a certain amount per hour/mile every time he flies. At the end of the year, Jay’s total TAXABLE profit for the year is, say, $10.000.00  (hypothetical, o’ course, Jay makes more than Bill Gates). Jay’s total bill for the plane for the year is $6,000.00 but Jay paid the company back $1,000.00 for personal use. Jay didn’t have to pay ANY of the bank payments or maintenance out of his after-taxes pocket.  The company did that for him at a pre-tax rate making business ownership of the plane, from a tax standpoint, considerably cheaper than owning it himself. So, Jay, being the greedy capitalist pig that he is, only pays taxes on the remaining $5,000 dollars profit instead of the full $10,000 thereby cutting his tax bill in half. Jim Fisher Capitalist Pig North Alabama

– Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

What is the point of the business owning the plane if most of the use is personal and reimbursed to the business? Mike MU-2

Tax write-off, Mike. If I may be so presumptuous, I’ll explain how it works: In this example, Jay’s company owns the plane.  His company makes all the payments.  Pays for all maintenance and all other incidental expanses.  Jay simply pays his company back a certain amount per hour/mile every time he flies. At the end of the year, Jay’s total TAXABLE profit for the year is, say, $10.000.00  (hypothetical, o’ course, Jay makes more than Bill Gates). Jay’s total bill for the plane for the year is $6,000.00 but Jay paid the company back $1,000.00 for personal use. Jay didn’t have to pay ANY of the bank payments or maintenance out of his after-taxes pocket.  The company did that for him at a pre-tax rate making business ownership of the plane, from a tax standpoint, considerably cheaper than owning it himself. So, Jay, being the greedy capitalist pig that he is, only pays taxes on the remaining $5,000 dollars profit instead of the full $10,000 thereby cutting his tax bill in half. Jim Fisher Capitalist Pig North Alabama

Response:

In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too.

I would think so. If the corporation you were a C corp, it would have to worry about reasonableness of compensation. But last I heard, bonuses were taxable, so what does that get you? And of course, as an S corp, you would just be moving money from one pocket to the other. — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

Even assuming NO business usage, there are still a couple of reasons for a corp to own (rather than personal ownership). Second, you’re spending pre-tax income on aircraft maintenance and upgrades, rather than post-tax.

Depends on how realistic your personal charge for use is. If perfectly realistic, this is not an advantage. E.g., if 100% personal, company spends $20,000 on operating expense and deducts it. However, you reimburse that $20,000, which is taxable income to the corp. And since you are an S corp, there is no chance of tax arbitrage here, as far as I see. NOT a tax guy, so take it FWIW. — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

Jay would have $5000 in taxable fringe benefits which must be reported. This is a can of worms and could lead to problems if one gets audited. Since there is little or no business reason to own the airplane other than to provide it to the owner,  if the benefit is not reported on W2 penalties will likely be assessed. Mike MU-2 Successful Capitalist – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the point of the business owning the plane if most of the use is personal and reimbursed to the business? Mike MU-2 Tax write-off, Mike. If I may be so presumptuous, I’ll explain how it works: In this example, Jay’s company owns the plane.  His company makes all the payments.  Pays for all maintenance and all other incidental expanses.  Jay simply pays his company back a certain amount per hour/mile every time he flies. At the end of the year, Jay’s total TAXABLE profit for the year is, say, $10.000.00  (hypothetical, o’ course, Jay makes more than Bill Gates). Jay’s total bill for the plane for the year is $6,000.00 but Jay paid the company back $1,000.00 for personal use. Jay didn’t have to pay ANY of the bank payments or maintenance out of his after-taxes pocket.  The company did that for him at a pre-tax rate making business ownership of the plane, from a tax standpoint, considerably cheaper than owning it himself. So, Jay, being the greedy capitalist pig that he is, only pays taxes on the remaining $5,000 dollars profit instead of the full $10,000 thereby cutting his tax bill in half. Jim Fisher Capitalist Pig North Alabama

Response:

But you need to reimburse for the use of the airplane with after tax dollars and if there is a difference between the reimbursement and the actual expense of providing the airplane, then that is taxable income paid to you (taxable fringe benefit). Mike MU-2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even assuming NO business usage, there are still a couple of reasons for a corp to own (rather than personal ownership). It’s advantageous from a liability point of view, although the amount is debatable.  Everybody sues everybody nowadays, regardless.  Maybe you get to keep your house, when the dust has settled after the lawsuit? Second, you’re spending pre-tax income on aircraft maintenance and upgrades, rather than post-tax. I can’t think of any other reasons — but those sound pretty good! — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431 What is the point of the business owning the plane if most of the use is personal and reimbursed to the business? Mike MU-2 Jim, Hypothetical question #1:  Why would it matter how much my company uses the plane on "business", so long as all personal usage is reimbursed? Hypothetical question #2: Assuming the company NEVER uses the plane, how would this be any different than the corporation you have set up for the sole purpose of owning the plane? An aside: In 1998 I was going to set up a separate corp to own the plane, not being sure if I had enough "business" use in my company to justify owning it. My lending institution told me it would be foolish to set up yet ANOTHER corporation, if we already had an "S Corp" up and running.  The bank president told me to simply reimburse my company for personal use…he owns a Bonanza himself… He also said that — so long as the Board of Directors okays the purchase — any corporation can legally own an airplane.  It’s no different than buying a truck, or computers — or any other major outlay. In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too. (I wasn’t so bold as to try THAT one!) As it turns out, we use the plane for business regularly — but personal use is far greater.  Any tax guys out there to answer this one?  My tax accountant hasn’t batted an eye on this one in yet — but maybe he’s wrong? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431 Jay, Actually, I don’t use my plane for business  . . . yet. My plane is owned by a Delaware corp. of which I am 1/3 partner (other two partners only fly a total of about 30 hours a year each – sweet deal for me).  Just like you, our "company" bills each of us for hours flown and I cut a check for the hours. However, I will soon my using the plane for business.  Will be flying it down to beach area looking at investment property.  When I do, I will reimburse myself 100% for every hour flown.  $35.00 per hour in my case. I’m not sure what the maximum hourly rate (or $ per mile) that the IRS allows (help anybody?) but I’ll pay myself back 100% until I hear differently.  If the IRS bitches, I’ll simply pay them back plus interest. It’s happened before.  Nothing to worry about as long as I’m attempting to be 100% legal about it (the IRS looks at "intent" when deciding whether or not to assess penalties PLUS interest or just interest). The only thing that may or may not be "kosher" in your case is this: Do you fly your company’s plane on company business enough to justify it being owned and paid for by the company?  I forget what the formula is, but you gotta be using it for business X% of total time.  If not, the IRS is likely to disallow all company expenditures on the plane. Anybody out there illuminate this further? Jim Fisher North Alabama How do you guys handle personal flying expense? Our company owns the plane.  We track personal hours carefully, and bill ourselves quarterly for the time used. I then write a personal check to the company for the amount due. Sound kosher? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

Even assuming NO business usage, there are still a couple of reasons for a corp to own (rather than personal ownership). It’s advantageous from a liability point of view, although the amount is debatable.  Everybody sues everybody nowadays, regardless.  Maybe you get to keep your house, when the dust has settled after the lawsuit? Second, you’re spending pre-tax income on aircraft maintenance and upgrades, rather than post-tax. I can’t think of any other reasons — but those sound pretty good! — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the point of the business owning the plane if most of the use is personal and reimbursed to the business? Mike MU-2 Jim, Hypothetical question #1:  Why would it matter how much my company uses the plane on "business", so long as all personal usage is reimbursed? Hypothetical question #2: Assuming the company NEVER uses the plane, how would this be any different than the corporation you have set up for the sole purpose of owning the plane? An aside: In 1998 I was going to set up a separate corp to own the plane, not being sure if I had enough "business" use in my company to justify owning it. My lending institution told me it would be foolish to set up yet ANOTHER corporation, if we already had an "S Corp" up and running.  The bank president told me to simply reimburse my company for personal use…he owns a Bonanza himself… He also said that — so long as the Board of Directors okays the purchase — any corporation can legally own an airplane.  It’s no different than buying a truck, or computers — or any other major outlay. In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too. (I wasn’t so bold as to try THAT one!) As it turns out, we use the plane for business regularly — but personal use is far greater.  Any tax guys out there to answer this one?  My tax accountant hasn’t batted an eye on this one in yet — but maybe he’s wrong? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431 Jay, Actually, I don’t use my plane for business  . . . yet. My plane is owned by a Delaware corp. of which I am 1/3 partner (other two partners only fly a total of about 30 hours a year each – sweet deal for me).  Just like you, our "company" bills each of us for hours flown and I cut a check for the hours. However, I will soon my using the plane for business.  Will be flying it down to beach area looking at investment property.  When I do, I will reimburse myself 100% for every hour flown.  $35.00 per hour in my case. I’m not sure what the maximum hourly rate (or $ per mile) that the IRS allows (help anybody?) but I’ll pay myself back 100% until I hear differently.  If the IRS bitches, I’ll simply pay them back plus interest. It’s happened before.  Nothing to worry about as long as I’m attempting to be 100% legal about it (the IRS looks at "intent" when deciding whether or not to assess penalties PLUS interest or just interest). The only thing that may or may not be "kosher" in your case is this: Do you fly your company’s plane on company business enough to justify it being owned and paid for by the company?  I forget what the formula is, but you gotta be using it for business X% of total time.  If not, the IRS is likely to disallow all company expenditures on the plane. Anybody out there illuminate this further? Jim Fisher North Alabama How do you guys handle personal flying expense? Our company owns the plane.  We track personal hours carefully, and bill ourselves quarterly for the time used. I then write a personal check to the company for the amount due. Sound kosher? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

What is the point of the business owning the plane if most of the use is personal and reimbursed to the business? Mike MU-2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, Hypothetical question #1:  Why would it matter how much my company uses the plane on "business", so long as all personal usage is reimbursed? Hypothetical question #2: Assuming the company NEVER uses the plane, how would this be any different than the corporation you have set up for the sole purpose of owning the plane? An aside: In 1998 I was going to set up a separate corp to own the plane, not being sure if I had enough "business" use in my company to justify owning it. My lending institution told me it would be foolish to set up yet ANOTHER corporation, if we already had an "S Corp" up and running.  The bank president told me to simply reimburse my company for personal use…he owns a Bonanza himself… He also said that — so long as the Board of Directors okays the purchase — any corporation can legally own an airplane.  It’s no different than buying a truck, or computers — or any other major outlay. In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too. (I wasn’t so bold as to try THAT one!) As it turns out, we use the plane for business regularly — but personal use is far greater.  Any tax guys out there to answer this one?  My tax accountant hasn’t batted an eye on this one in yet — but maybe he’s wrong? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431 Jay, Actually, I don’t use my plane for business  . . . yet. My plane is owned by a Delaware corp. of which I am 1/3 partner (other two partners only fly a total of about 30 hours a year each – sweet deal for me).  Just like you, our "company" bills each of us for hours flown and I cut a check for the hours. However, I will soon my using the plane for business.  Will be flying it down to beach area looking at investment property.  When I do, I will reimburse myself 100% for every hour flown.  $35.00 per hour in my case. I’m not sure what the maximum hourly rate (or $ per mile) that the IRS allows (help anybody?) but I’ll pay myself back 100% until I hear differently.  If the IRS bitches, I’ll simply pay them back plus interest. It’s happened before.  Nothing to worry about as long as I’m attempting to be 100% legal about it (the IRS looks at "intent" when deciding whether or not to assess penalties PLUS interest or just interest). The only thing that may or may not be "kosher" in your case is this:  Do you fly your company’s plane on company business enough to justify it being owned and paid for by the company?  I forget what the formula is, but you gotta be using it for business X% of total time.  If not, the IRS is likely to disallow all company expenditures on the plane. Anybody out there illuminate this further? Jim Fisher North Alabama How do you guys handle personal flying expense? Our company owns the plane.  We track personal hours carefully, and bill ourselves quarterly for the time used. I then write a personal check to the company for the amount due. Sound kosher? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

Jim, Hypothetical question #1:  Why would it matter how much my company uses the plane on "business", so long as all personal usage is reimbursed? Hypothetical question #2: Assuming the company NEVER uses the plane, how would this be any different than the corporation you have set up for the sole purpose of owning the plane? An aside: In 1998 I was going to set up a separate corp to own the plane, not being sure if I had enough "business" use in my company to justify owning it. My lending institution told me it would be foolish to set up yet ANOTHER corporation, if we already had an "S Corp" up and running.  The bank president told me to simply reimburse my company for personal use…he owns a Bonanza himself… He also said that — so long as the Board of Directors okays the purchase — any corporation can legally own an airplane.  It’s no different than buying a truck, or computers — or any other major outlay. In fact, he said that if the Board decides to GIVE the President a plane as a "bonus", that’s legal too. (I wasn’t so bold as to try THAT one!) As it turns out, we use the plane for business regularly — but personal use is far greater.  Any tax guys out there to answer this one?  My tax accountant hasn’t batted an eye on this one in yet — but maybe he’s wrong? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jay, Actually, I don’t use my plane for business  . . . yet. My plane is owned by a Delaware corp. of which I am 1/3 partner (other two partners only fly a total of about 30 hours a year each – sweet deal for me).  Just like you, our "company" bills each of us for hours flown and I cut a check for the hours. However, I will soon my using the plane for business.  Will be flying it down to beach area looking at investment property.  When I do, I will reimburse myself 100% for every hour flown.  $35.00 per hour in my case. I’m not sure what the maximum hourly rate (or $ per mile) that the IRS allows (help anybody?) but I’ll pay myself back 100% until I hear differently.  If the IRS bitches, I’ll simply pay them back plus interest. It’s happened before.  Nothing to worry about as long as I’m attempting to be 100% legal about it (the IRS looks at "intent" when deciding whether or not to assess penalties PLUS interest or just interest). The only thing that may or may not be "kosher" in your case is this:  Do you fly your company’s plane on company business enough to justify it being owned and paid for by the company?  I forget what the formula is, but you gotta be using it for business X% of total time.  If not, the IRS is likely to disallow all company expenditures on the plane. Anybody out there illuminate this further? Jim Fisher North Alabama How do you guys handle personal flying expense? Our company owns the plane.  We track personal hours carefully, and bill ourselves quarterly for the time used. I then write a personal check to the company for the amount due. Sound kosher? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

Jay, Actually, I don’t use my plane for business  . . . yet. My plane is owned by a Delaware corp. of which I am 1/3 partner (other two partners only fly a total of about 30 hours a year each – sweet deal for me).  Just like you, our "company" bills each of us for hours flown and I cut a check for the hours. However, I will soon my using the plane for business.  Will be flying it down to beach area looking at investment property.  When I do, I will reimburse myself 100% for every hour flown.  $35.00 per hour in my case. I’m not sure what the maximum hourly rate (or $ per mile) that the IRS allows (help anybody?) but I’ll pay myself back 100% until I hear differently.  If the IRS bitches, I’ll simply pay them back plus interest. It’s happened before.  Nothing to worry about as long as I’m attempting to be 100% legal about it (the IRS looks at "intent" when deciding whether or not to assess penalties PLUS interest or just interest). The only thing that may or may not be "kosher" in your case is this:  Do you fly your company’s plane on company business enough to justify it being owned and paid for by the company?  I forget what the formula is, but you gotta be using it for business X% of total time.  If not, the IRS is likely to disallow all company expenditures on the plane. Anybody out there illuminate this further? Jim Fisher North Alabama

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you guys handle personal flying expense? Our company owns the plane.  We track personal hours carefully, and bill ourselves quarterly for the time used. I then write a personal check to the company for the amount due. Sound kosher? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

You can never expense training for a new certificate. You can expense required recurrent training [for example, if your job requires you to fly, then a biennial flight review may be tax deductible], if getting it allows you to keep your present job. Not otherwise.

Untrue. There was an article in last month’s (I think it was last month) Private Pilot magazine where the IRS lost a suite against a Private Pilot who expensed all his instrument training cost to his business. The pilot was able to effectively prove to the judge that the instrument rating was a necessary business expense because, without it, his business would be negatively affected.  I’m sure there’s some place on the net where you can look this case up. As long as you have receipts and can prove that the expense it is necessary to your business, you can write just about anything off. In other words:  If you can prove that a gold plated rubber ducky in your bath tub is necessary for your business to prosper, you can write it off. One more thing:  If you use your plane for more than 80% business, the IRS allows you to write off 100% of the plane – even your personal flying time. Jim Fisher North Alabama – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lee

Response:

How do you guys handle personal flying expense? Our company owns the plane.  We track personal hours carefully, and bill ourselves quarterly for the time used. I then write a personal check to the company for the amount due. Sound kosher? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can never expense training for a new certificate. You can expense required recurrent training [for example, if your job requires you to fly, then a biennial flight review may be tax deductible], if getting it allows you to keep your present job. Not otherwise. Untrue. There was an article in last month’s (I think it was last month) Private Pilot magazine where the IRS lost a suite against a Private Pilot who expensed all his instrument training cost to his business. The pilot was able to effectively prove to the judge that the instrument rating was a necessary business expense because, without it, his business would be negatively affected.  I’m sure there’s some place on the net where you can look this case up. As long as you have receipts and can prove that the expense it is necessary to your business, you can write just about anything off. In other words:  If you can prove that a gold plated rubber ducky in your bath tub is necessary for your business to prosper, you can write it off. One more thing:  If you use your plane for more than 80% business, the IRS allows you to write off 100% of the plane – even your personal flying time. Jim Fisher North Alabama Lee

Response:

I am currently training to get my private pilots license. I am also an owner of a small business. I have an airport nearby and could benefit from being able to fly to clients who need me to work onsite. Does anyone know if I can expense my training or even the purchase of a plane? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks James Webb Synthetic Light Productions

Response:

You can expense your aircraft the same as you do your car. The rate is different, need to look it up. The real part is that it is often questioned, so you’ll need to demonstrate utility [i.e., that it really is a business property, or is used in business, and to what degree], and keep good records (when, where, for what, etc IAW IRS guidelines). Remember, airplanes (and computers) are "listed" property, and are scrutinized carefully. You cannot expense the entire airplane in one year, you’ll have to depreciate it over more (maybe 7) years. You can never expense training for a new certificate. You can expense required recurrent training [for example, if your job requires you to fly, then a biennial flight review may be tax deductible], if getting it allows you to keep your present job. Not otherwise. Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently training to get my private pilots license. I am also an owner of a small business. I have an airport nearby and could benefit from being able to fly to clients who need me to work onsite. Does anyone know if I can expense my training or even the purchase of a plane? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks James Webb Synthetic Light Productions

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the info and advice.   I know that I can’t be all things . . .I just need to know which are the important ones. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Just some observations from hanging around airstrips for the last thirty years. Ealier posts were right in that you need the activity to support the airfield.  One of my early mentor did this by encouraging flying clubs or partnerships consisting of four-six people who joinly owned the plane.  He acted as a broker for the memberships so whenever someone was looking to move up, he helped sell their current share and found an appropriate new one.  He had minimal facilities at the strip but cultivated contacts within an hour’s flying time to provide most any service imaginable. The other thing he had going for him was being located about a half hour from a suburb/metro area.  It provided a steady flow of students over time. Another operator specialized in restorations of WWII and earlier ga aircraft.  You’d be surprised at how many inquiries a Kenner Bird or Staggerwing visible from the road will prompt. My current airstrip provides instruction and some sales but always has the coffee pot on.  There is a regular flow of planes but only a few hanger there cause the strip is fairly new and the operator is a cautious sort who wants to see what "flies". In short, don’t try to be all things to all pilots.  Work with the parts that you enjoy ’cause there will be days of lawyers and accountants. I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). Before you buy.

Response:

WHERE????? AND why is there so little organized U/L activity in the west?? Huh? Huh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM How does a clear Pri-Fly Zone of about 600 square miles grab you?  With the aero-rec park a mile from a real airport with great runways, but no tower control zone (suitable for flight-test of homebuilts)? Other features will include non-directional AND directional runways for ULs, gyros, sailplaines etc. Not to mention your choice of several great, CHEAP hotels within 2 miles, self-contained trailer camping or tents and Wingabagos. I am also planning to contact aero-recreation dealers to see if they will come in on this. The primary consideration is simply WILL IT MAKE A PROFIT?  If it looks like I can provide enough services and facilities to bring in the herd while still making enough money to continue development, then it will be a go by spring.

Response:

Keith:  Caution my Compadre, Remember that the established, "real airport", you mention as being a mile away  most likely already has the airspace control reservations it needs. These restrictions on structure height and proximity to other aviation activities will encompass, at a minimum, a 5 mile zone around the existing airfield. You can bet that The airport board (public owned) or corporation (Private, open to public use) has them in place for the future time when it is economically sound to set up the tower/control zone and get federal funds to up grade facilities at the airfield.     This could happen 24 hours after you buy the land and open for business and your then immediately be OUT OF Business. It sadly enough has happened and will happen in the future. There are air parks out there today that did not get the required approvals from the FAA, State AND COUNTY, to protect their needs, that will become extinct in the future.     I am NOT trying to throw cold water on your project. I wish you the best and hope you succeed. An air park has been one of my dreams for quite a few years too.  Be sure to not only touch all the "bases", but be sure you know all the "bases" and Hoops that must be jumped through.  JIM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM How does a clear Pri-Fly Zone of about 600 square miles grab you?  With the aero-rec park a mile from a real airport with great runways, but no tower control zone (suitable for flight-test of homebuilts)? Other features will include non-directional AND directional runways for ULs, gyros, sailplaines etc. Not to mention your choice of several great, CHEAP hotels within 2 miles, self-contained trailer camping or tents and Wingabagos. I am also planning to contact aero-recreation dealers to see if they will come in on this. The primary consideration is simply WILL IT MAKE A PROFIT?  If it looks like I can provide enough services and facilities to bring in the herd while still making enough money to continue development, then it will be a go by spring.

Response:

ALL the luck in the world Keith ! keep us posted.  JIM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Caution my Compadre, Remember that the established, "real airport", you mention as being a mile away  most likely already has the airspace control reservations it needs. This has been dealt with.  There is no conflict. These restrictions on structure height and proximity to other aviation activities will encompass, at a minimum, a 5 mile zone around the existing airfield. You can bet that The airport board (public owned) or corporation (Private, open to public use) has them in place for the future time when it is economically sound to set up the tower/control zone and get federal funds to up grade facilities at the airfield.     This could happen 24 hours after you buy the land and open for business and your then immediately be OUT OF Business. It sadly enough has happened and will happen in the future. There are air parks out there today that did not get the required approvals from the FAA, State AND COUNTY, to protect their needs, that will become extinct in the future. The land belongs to the county and is under the control of the airport manager.  The airport manager likes the idea.     I am NOT trying to throw cold water on your project. I wish you the best and hope you succeed. An air park has been one of my dreams for quite a few years too.  Be sure to not only touch all the "bases", but be sure you know all the "bases" and Hoops that must be jumped through.  JIM The administrative stuff is being taken care of.  This leaves the basic questions — what to put there and whether it will support itself. Thanks for your concerns.

Response:

WHERE?????

Wait for it.  I’m still trying to see if it would support itself, and I don’t even know what all the costs will be for the facility, insurance, etc.   I WILL say that it isn’t in the California desert somewhere (or anywhere in CA, for that matter), but it IS out away from major population areas.   The whole question is whether I can put together something which will draw enough activity from a distance.  There are other (non-aviation) attractions to the area, which will help. AND why is there so little organized U/L activity in the west?? Huh? Huh?

Don’t ask me — I’m trying to organize some.

Response:

Keith:  Caution my Compadre, Remember that the established, "real airport", you mention as being a mile away  most likely already has the airspace control reservations it needs.

This has been dealt with.  There is no conflict. These restrictions on structure height and proximity to other aviation activities will encompass, at a minimum, a 5 mile zone around the existing airfield. You can bet that The airport board (public owned) or corporation (Private, open to public use) has them in place for the future time when it is economically sound to set up the tower/control zone and get federal funds to up grade facilities at the airfield.     This could happen 24 hours after you buy the land and open for business and your then immediately be OUT OF Business. It sadly enough has happened and will happen in the future. There are air parks out there today that did not get the required approvals from the FAA, State AND COUNTY, to protect their needs, that will become extinct in the future.

The land belongs to the county and is under the control of the airport manager.  The airport manager likes the idea.     I am NOT trying to throw cold water on your project. I wish you the best and hope you succeed. An air park has been one of my dreams for quite a few years too.  Be sure to not only touch all the "bases", but be sure you know all the "bases" and Hoops that must be jumped through.  JIM

The administrative stuff is being taken care of.  This leaves the basic questions — what to put there and whether it will support itself. Thanks for your concerns.

Response:

ALL the luck in the world Keith ! keep us posted.  JIM

Trust me, it won’t be a secret.

Response:

I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Good relationships with understanding neighbors, MUST HAVE!!! Good core of students and ultralight aviators that appreciate the value of what you are providing, recognize the delicate balance with your neighbors and local municipal principals, and agree not to do anything stupid to jeopardize that. MUST HAVE!!! Make sure that these points are not overlooked in your equation for the right combination of elements for your air park. Very obvious but easily overlooked issues to also consider… — Bart Gaffney EAA Ultralight Chapter #1  President <http://www.eaaul1.org Wisc. Ultralight/Light Aviation Advisory Counsel  President Vice Chair Ultralight Operations AirVenture ‘99-Oshkosh

Response:

[snip] I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. [snip] Thanks, Keith Wood

Good relationships with understanding neighbors, MUST HAVE!!! Good core of students and ultralight aviators that appreciate the value of what you are providing, recognize the delicate balance with your neighbors and local municipal principals, and agree not to do anything stupid to jeopardize that. MUST HAVE!!! Make sure that these points are not overlooked in your equation for the right combination of elements for your air park. Very obvious but easily overlooked issues to also consider… — Bart Gaffney EAA Ultralight Chapter #1  President <http://www.eaaul1.org Wisc. Ultralight/Light Aviation Advisory Counsel  President Vice Chair Ultralight Operations AirVenture ‘99-Oshkosh

Response:

Well,Keith, I think the matter of interest and participation depends as much on where as who…. I am activly looking for the kind o’ facility as you elude to, but have gone to the : Motorhome and trailerable A/C to get to flying areas. Good luck on ur endevour. Keep us posted. Geoff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WHERE????? Wait for it.  I’m still trying to see if it would support itself, and I don’t even know what all the costs will be for the facility, insurance, etc. I WILL say that it isn’t in the California desert somewhere (or anywhere in CA, for that matter), but it IS out away from major population areas. The whole question is whether I can put together something which will draw enough activity from a distance.  There are other (non-aviation) attractions to the area, which will help. AND why is there so little organized U/L activity in the west?? Huh? Huh? Don’t ask me — I’m trying to organize some.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Response:

Well,Keith, I think the matter of interest and participation depends as much on where as who…. I am activly looking for the kind o’ facility as you elude to, but have gone to the : Motorhome and trailerable A/C to get to flying areas. Good luck on ur endevour. Keep us posted. Geoff.

Well, you will still need the motorhome and trailer — the trick is to make WARP worth your trip. I am still waiting for a firm set of numbers for the leases (one for the flight-test center and one for the air park).  Once I have thme, then I can decide whether to do this. Keith

Response:

Keith:  Just some observations from hanging around airstrips for the last thirty years. Ealier posts were right in that you need the activity to support the airfield.  One of my early mentor did this by encouraging flying clubs or partnerships consisting of four-six people who joinly owned the plane.  He acted as a broker for the memberships so whenever someone was looking to move up, he helped sell their current share and found an appropriate new one.  He had minimal facilities at the strip but cultivated contacts within an hour’s flying time to provide most any service imaginable. The other thing he had going for him was being located about a half hour from a suburb/metro area.  It provided a steady flow of students over time. Another operator specialized in restorations of WWII and earlier ga aircraft.  You’d be surprised at how many inquiries a Kenner Bird or Staggerwing visible from the road will prompt. My current airstrip provides instruction and some sales but always has the coffee pot on.  There is a regular flow of planes but only a few hanger there cause the strip is fairly new and the operator is a cautious sort who wants to see what "flies". In short, don’t try to be all things to all pilots.  Work with the parts that you enjoy ’cause there will be days of lawyers and accountants. I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc).

Before you buy.

Response:

Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Response:

I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Response:

Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM

How does a clear Pri-Fly Zone of about 600 square miles grab you?  With the aero-rec park a mile from a real airport with great runways, but no tower control zone (suitable for flight-test of homebuilts)?   Other features will include non-directional AND directional runways for ULs, gyros, sailplaines etc. Not to mention your choice of several great, CHEAP hotels within 2 miles, self-contained trailer camping or tents and Wingabagos. I am also planning to contact aero-recreation dealers to see if they will come in on this. The primary consideration is simply WILL IT MAKE A PROFIT?  If it looks like I can provide enough services and facilities to bring in the herd while still making enough money to continue development, then it will be a go by spring.

Response:

Question:

We are in the process of evaluating the marketing potential of several new QuickBooks add-on software products. Please tell us whether you think these products would be successful or not and what you think the products should sell for. 1. Convert estimates into the purchase orders needed to fulfill the estimate. 2. Remote sales invoicing with transfer to the home office via e-mailed invoice import file. Also transfer of reference files (customer, items etc) to the remote locations via e-mail. 3. Transmittal (via e-mail) of a "bill" import file (along  with the related invoice) to customers also using QuickBooks. 4.  Issue ( via e-mail) purchase orders to vendors in the form of an "estimate" import file that vendors using QuickBooks could import into their system. Also please list any other QuickBooks add-on products that you would purchase, if they were available. — Karl Irvin, CPA  -  Arlington, Texas

Response:

Karl, If you developed an add-on product that printed out the New York state quarterly payroll tax returns from QuickBooks for a couple of hudred dollars. I know I’d buy it. Ditto for New York State Sales tax returns. Richard W. Vaccaro, CPA http://www.baranskyvaccaro.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are in the process of evaluating the marketing potential of several new QuickBooks add-on software products. Please tell us whether you think these products would be successful or not and what you think the products should sell for. 1. Convert estimates into the purchase orders needed to fulfill the estimate. 2. Remote sales invoicing with transfer to the home office via e-mailed invoice import file. Also transfer of reference files (customer, items etc) to the remote locations via e-mail. 3. Transmittal (via e-mail) of a "bill" import file (along  with the related invoice) to customers also using QuickBooks. 4.  Issue ( via e-mail) purchase orders to vendors in the form of an "estimate" import file that vendors using QuickBooks could import into their system. Also please list any other QuickBooks add-on products that you would purchase, if they were available. — Karl Irvin, CPA  -  Arlington, Texas

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are in the process of evaluating the marketing potential of several new QuickBooks add-on software products. Please tell us whether you think these products would be successful or not and what you think the products should sell for. 1. Convert estimates into the purchase orders needed to fulfill the estimate. 2. Remote sales invoicing with transfer to the home office via e-mailed invoice import file. Also transfer of reference files (customer, items etc) to the remote locations via e-mail. 3. Transmittal (via e-mail) of a "bill" import file (along  with the related invoice) to customers also using QuickBooks. 4.  Issue ( via e-mail) purchase orders to vendors in the form of an "estimate" import file that vendors using QuickBooks could import into their system. Also please list any other QuickBooks add-on products that you would purchase, if they were available. — Karl Irvin, CPA  -  Arlington, Texas

Karl, If you could produce an add-on that would siphon off the necessary information for the UK Inland Revenue’s Employers Year end P11d forms, I (and my clients!) would give it a whirl. Mike

Response:

2. Remote sales invoicing with transfer to the home office via e-mailed invoice import file. Also transfer of reference files (customer, items etc) to the remote locations via e-mail.

This would be very exciting.  I thought there was no function in Quickbooks for importing invoices.  I assume you have read the many,many questions about importing data http://www.helptalk.net/accounting/ 3. Transmittal (via e-mail) of a "bill" import file (along  with the related invoice) to customers also using QuickBooks. 4.  Issue ( via e-mail) purchase orders to vendors in the form of an "estimate" import file that vendors using QuickBooks could import into their system.

Do you mean, Transmit an invoice to any Quickbooks user, in a form that they can import it to their Quickbooks? Do you mean Receive an invoice from any Quickbooks user, in a form that can be imported to my Quickbooks?   How ambitious!   It would be a dream come true, if the data were in a form that processes AR, AP, and inventory items correctly. Also, you’ll have to put a great deal of thought into the program that manages the incoming data, in order to give the user a solid feeling of reviewing and approving.  To prevent junk from getting posted into the Quickbooks in obscure places hard to correct. I would not be interested in receiving IIF files as attachments to Email, and just importing them, sight unseen, to my Quickbooks ledger. * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * Accounting ASP, Web ledger, netledger, web GL, GL Dialtone, whatever.

Response:

Also please list any other QuickBooks add-on products that you would purchase, if they were available.

I would purchase an XML gateway in or out of Quickbooks. 1. Report output to XML: Preferably a program that works in tandem with the Windows Generic Printer Driver.  Your program would translate any Quickbooks report into an XML document.  Here is an example of a Quickbooks report after it is captured to an ASCII file by the Windows Generic Text Printer.                        Campany Kimpany Company, Inc. 06/13/99                  TELEPHONE EXPENSE 1996                              All Transactions           Type       Date    Num         Memo         Split   Amount     5830s

Question:

Thanks JC, I appreciate your jocular insight into my quandry.  Seems like it really would be stupid of me not to put out the effort to complete my degree. I’m starting to look into programs in Seattle and the opportunity I might have for scholarships/grants/loans.  I have also heard of a program called CLEP where you pay your tuition but can study at your own pace and take one final test for the credits.  Not sure if it is offered in the Seattle are but I’m going to look into it. Thanks again! Becky To reply by email send the monky on his way!

Response:

Unfortunately, the "paper" does matter. I started going to night school in 1992 and finished in late 97 in a non-accounting related field (I am looking for a system that’s why I am here.) and have doubled my income in that time. I am not smarter than I was, I could have learned everything on my own (I changed careers and knew nothing of what I do now) but, I would be going up against people who had degrees and were younger and probably would have worked for less. The sense of accomplishment was something I didn’t expect but, received and I am better able to hold up an intelligent conversation in a room of snobs. The degree is expected — the experience gives you the job. Apparently, if you don’t have a degree you are not motivated. I say do it and good luck! — Thanks, JC Haven

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ve been lurking here for months and finally decided to ask a burning question that I have. I’m 38 yrs old, have been in bookkeeping and accounting since I was 21.  I have held several positions that held the title "Controller", "Accounting Manager" and the like. I’ve supervised large accounting departments, set up from scratch and cleaned up small companies’ books as well as a stint as a VAR of a small accounting software company. I’ve prepared proformas, performed fixed asset planning, prepared corporate, partnership (all types) and single proprietor tax returns (for CPA review, of course), secured large-scale financing and a myriad of other accounting functions. The only problem I have is that I was not able to finish my degree.  I am starting to work on it again but it will still take me at least three years at night. My questions are this: In the field of accounting is your opinion that a degree is more important than experience or vice versa? I am planning an interstate move soon and need to decide if I would be better served to go back to school for that "piece of paper" (that was tongue-in-cheek, please forgive me) or stick to my guns and hope that my past experience and references will help me land a job that is challenging and rewarding (financially and otherwise). Thanks for your thoughts! Becky Someone just told me that this isn’t a dress rehearsal…. I’d better get busy!!!!!!

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<HTML You might be surprised to learn that your message is not possible to read, directly, inside the Agent newsreader, or many other newsreaders and is being ignored by many of the folks here. We can turn on HTML easily enough

Todd, I’m reading & posting via deja.com.  If you know of a way to turn on HTML in deja.com I would appreciate your passing it along. The only way I have of reading HTML stuff now it to copy & paste to Word, save it to a file & reopen as HTML.  I only do that if an article really gets my attention, which is not often. Thanks Jim Hudspeth Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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<HTML

You might be surprised to learn that your message is not possible to read, directly, inside the Agent newsreader, or many other newsreaders and is being ignored by many of the folks here. We can turn on HTML easily enough but this is mostly a plain text discussion forum.  We’ve had distasteful experiences with HTML messages on usenet because hackers and spammers often put functions in the HTML pages that cause problems for the reader, install cookies, upload information to websites, etc.  generally cause a nuisance. Who needs that?   This is a discussion forum.   Todd

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It’s not that bad.  Have you considered doing your degree via correspondance? Its in your own time so you don’t have to attend lectures after work.  You can finish it in 2 years by studying 3 semesters per year. ie over the summer.  I enrolled in this post grad course mid 98. I am half way through and are amazed at how fast the time is flying.  Its recognised by the major professional bodies ASCPA and ICAA and it is highly recognised internationally.  There are a lot of overseas students studying this particular course.  Its with University of Southern Queensland. VIsit their website  www.usq.edu.au. They recognise any relevant industry experience for enrolling. I’m sure you would easily qualify with your experience. best of luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ve been lurking here for months and finally decided to ask a burning question that I have. I’m 38 yrs old, have been in bookkeeping and accounting since I was 21.  I have held several positions that held the title "Controller", "Accounting Manager" and the like. I’ve supervised large accounting departments, set up from scratch and cleaned up small companies’ books as well as a stint as a VAR of a small accounting software company. I’ve prepared proformas, performed fixed asset planning, prepared corporate, partnership (all types) and single proprietor tax returns (for CPA review, of course), secured large-scale financing and a myriad of other accounting functions. The only problem I have is that I was not able to finish my degree.  I am starting to work on it again but it will still take me at least three years at night. My questions are this: In the field of accounting is your opinion that a degree is more important than experience or vice versa? I am planning an interstate move soon and need to decide if I would be better served to go back to school for that "piece of paper" (that was tongue-in-cheek, please forgive me) or stick to my guns and hope that my past experience and references will help me land a job that is challenging and rewarding (financially and otherwise). Thanks for your thoughts! Becky Someone just told me that this isn’t a dress rehearsal…. I’d better get busy!!!!!!

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At your age, you are competing against those who have both a degree and experience.  

That’s my main concern!  I once hired an outstanding candidate…only to be let down because of the individual’s personal problems that interfered with performance.  

That has happened to me more than once.  I’ve never been afraid to hire someone with more credentials than I – my goal has always been for my department to run smoothly, efficiently and produce timely, quality information.  This makes us all look good to our superiors.  I’ve had a couple folks working for me over the years that must have slept through their college years or have no retention for basic accounting facts.  I guess you can get stuck with folks like that (great resumes, good references and good interviewees) that really don’t have a grasp on the hands-on day to day work required. Thanks again for your thoughts! Becky Someone just told me that this isn’t a dress rehearsal…. I’d better get busy!!!!!!

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It sounds as though your experience has been quite phenomenal.&nbsp; Where are you moving to?

Back to the Seattle area. I had been there for about 15 years and have only been away a year and a half. I hate to sound snobby or crude, but I’m just trying to be honest.

Oh not at all! I asked for honest opinions and yours is definately appreciated! Can you pursue both a rewarding job and a degree simultaneously?

I think my spirit is willing but I don’t know if there are enough hours in the day – I also have an 8 year old son and am a single mother. it would be worth sacrificing 12 months to remove any and all doubt and secure your future for he next 20-30 years.

I surely can’t argue with that one.  Someone also said that I may be able to get a position with a company that has either tuition reimbursement or assistance – seems like that’s the best idea so far! Thank you everyone for your thoughts – I’m moving in another month and will let you know what opportunities unfold if you’d like to know. Becky Someone just told me that this isn’t a dress rehearsal…. I’d better get busy!!!!!!

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Out of own experience (I am 48 and have next week exams in intermediate stage from AAT) your papers count a lot by new jobs. But naturally, if you have an exam and you are not good you loose your job very quickly again. Its also fun going back to school and learning keeps you young.

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Curvywoman asked the group alt.accounting : (snip) In the field of accounting is your opinion that a degree is more important than experience or vice versa?

In most cases that do not involve entry-level positions, it’s pretty much a combination of the two, and it really depends on the organization as to which is given more weight.  There are some employers that will absolutely require certain credentials whether or not they are really needed for the position, while there are others who are willing to give more consideration to previous work experience. All else being equal, degrees and professional certifications are likely to open more doors, and the positions requiring them tend to pay more. Like many things in life, it’s really a trade-off in deciding whether the investment in time and energy is worth the potential payoff.  I would suggest networking with others in the profession to ask their opinion, and try to meet with persons with and without degrees to get different opinions.

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Yes it is becoming increasingly important to have the degree.  If you are planning a move I would consider it even more important.  Here’s why.  First increasingly companies are using credentials to screen prospective job candidates.  Resumes for those that don’t have a degree or other credentials are not getting past the HR department and into the hands of the manager who will actually hire.  Indeed larger companies are using HR software that scans in resumes and will then only select those that meet the minimum requirements for the position, usually expressed with degree requirements. Secondly, while I believe experience is more important in upper level positions, getting in the door is the hard part.  If you are being screened out your best bet to get into an interview is by recognition.  If you have spent a career in a locality where you have made a name for yourself your ability to move between jobs may not be a problem.  They know you and have confidence in your abilities.  However in a new state you will need to re-establish yourself.  And without starting over that ‘piece of paper’ will make that a whole lot easier than without. Finally your income and income potential will only increase with that degree. My advice go for it. Don   Hi all,   I’ve been lurking here for months and finally decided to ask a burning question   that I have.   I’m 38 yrs old, have been in bookkeeping and accounting since I was 21.  I have   held several positions that held the title "Controller", "Accounting Manager"   and the like.   I’ve supervised large accounting departments, set up from scratch and cleaned   up small companies’ books as well as a stint as a VAR of a small accounting   software company. I’ve prepared proformas, performed fixed asset planning,   prepared corporate, partnership (all types) and single proprietor tax returns   (for CPA review, of course), secured large-scale financing and a myriad of   other accounting functions.   The only problem I have is that I was not able to finish my degree.  I am   starting to work on it again but it will still take me at least three years at   night.   My questions are this:     In the field of accounting is your opinion that a degree is more important than   experience or vice versa?   I am planning an interstate move soon and need to decide if I would be better   served to go back to school for that "piece of paper" (that was   tongue-in-cheek, please forgive me) or stick to my guns and hope that my past   experience and references will help me land a job that is challenging and   rewarding (financially and otherwise).   Thanks for your thoughts!   Becky   Someone just told me that this isn’t a dress rehearsal….   I’d better get busy!!!!!!

Response:

Hi all, I’ve been lurking here for months and finally decided to ask a burning question that I have. I’m 38 yrs old, have been in bookkeeping and accounting since I was 21.  I have held several positions that held the title "Controller", "Accounting Manager" and the like. I’ve supervised large accounting departments, set up from scratch and cleaned up small companies’ books as well as a stint as a VAR of a small accounting software company. I’ve prepared proformas, performed fixed asset planning, prepared corporate, partnership (all types) and single proprietor tax returns (for CPA review, of course), secured large-scale financing and a myriad of other accounting functions. The only problem I have is that I was not able to finish my degree.  I am starting to work on it again but it will still take me at least three years at night. My questions are this:   In the field of accounting is your opinion that a degree is more important than experience or vice versa? I am planning an interstate move soon and need to decide if I would be better served to go back to school for that "piece of paper" (that was tongue-in-cheek, please forgive me) or stick to my guns and hope that my past experience and references will help me land a job that is challenging and rewarding (financially and otherwise). Thanks for your thoughts! Becky Someone just told me that this isn’t a dress rehearsal…. I’d better get busy!!!!!!

Response:

Yes, unfortunately, the "piece of paper" is important. I too have lots of experience but had problems getting interviews for jobs I was qualified to do and for a decent salary, mainly because I lacked the degree.  Generally I found that people like to see the experience and will hire a non-degreed person because they don’t want to pay for the degree but figure they are getting an equivalent person. That type of employer is seldom pro-employee, in my opinion and should be avoided.  It took me 8 1/2 yrs of night school, but I finally got my degree last year at the age of 42 (double major in accounting and business admin). I also got a master certificate in MS Office and have doubled my hourly rate from what it was 6 yrs ago, and I only work part time, now in public accounting.  I could earn even more if I went full time and sat for the CPA or CMA exams and had the desire for a "real career". In other words…GO FOR IT! If you want a lifelong career and be able to always find a job, you should have the degree. I would try to find a job now and get your employer to pay for your classes, many will. That way you keep your skills fresh and save money. Good Luck! ….The only problem I have is that I was not able to finish my degree.

I am starting to work on it again but it will still take me at least three years at night. My questions are this: In the field of accounting is your opinion that a degree is more important than experience or vice versa? I am planning an interstate move soon and need to decide if I would be better served to go back to school for that "piece of paper" (that was tongue-in-cheek, please forgive me) or stick to my guns and hope that my past experience and references will help me land a job that is challenging and rewarding (financially and otherwise). Becky

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Question:

If you have used this club please give me your opinions on it thanks justin

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I had the misfortune of buying one after hitting a dozen screamers on the driving range….took it on the course and hardly hit a decent drive in about 10 rounds. When the Invex first appeared here in UK they were retailing at