Question:

The unmaking of the president Why the incumbent who should have won in a cakewalk is headed for defeat next week. – - – - – - – - – - – - By Sidney Blumenthal Oct. 27, 2004  |  The unmaking of the president 2004 began on Sept. 11, 2001. By Sept. 10, George W. Bush’s poll numbers had reached 50 percent, the lowest of any president at that early point in his tenure. Having lost the popular majority in the 2000 election and been delivered the presidency by a 5-4 Supreme Court decision, Bush operated as though he had triumphed with a full-throated mandate. "From the very day we walked in the building," Vice President Cheney remarked, "a notion of sort of a restrained presidency because it was such a close election, that lasted maybe 30 seconds. It was not contemplated for any length of time. We had an agenda, we ran on that agenda, we won the election — full speed ahead." From the start Bush ran a government based on secrecy, handed over departments and agencies to more than 100 industry executives and lobbyists appointed to key positions, and exhibited belligerence toward anyone who raised a question about his right-wing imperatives. His bullying prompted Republican Sen. James Jeffords of Vermont to cross the aisle, throwing control of the Senate to the Democrats. In just months, Bush’s incompetence and arrogance had induced paralysis. His presidency had already run his course. "Never did I dream I’d hit the trifecta," said Bush after Sept. 11. As his poll numbers soared he wrapped his radical agenda in the cloak of commander in chief. Now he would attempt to implement Karl Rove’s ambition of a one-party state and the neoconservatives’ plan for an American imperium. Bush believed he had permanent political capital to forge a factional partisan political realignment. The war in Afghanistan, almost unanimously supported in the country, solidified his popularity and certainty. The conservative wish list came off the shelf. Civil liberties were curtailed with the passage of the PATRIOT Act, extremists nominated as federal judges (one candidate even opposed the inclusion of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution), environmental protections ravaged and resources shifted from the Afghan war theater to prepare for Bush’s ultimate objective — Iraq. After the summer, the pressure for invasion mounted. "From a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August," said White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card at the time. The midterm elections of 2002 ratified Bush’s hyper-radicalism. In the face of the "war president," members of the congressional Democratic leadership demonstrated political ineptitude, division and confusion, and the Republicans tarred them as unpatriotic. Bush’s belief in his inevitability became more intoxicating. After the Iraq "cakewalk," Bush landed on an aircraft carrier wearing a "Top Gun" uniform, proclaiming "Mission accomplished." At home, he encountered no checks and balances from Congress. The fourth estate conducted press conferences as though suffering from aphasia; it was intimidated, self-censoring and discredited through complicity in the orchestration of disinformation. Only the lonely voices of the Sept. 11 widows demanded an accounting. Bush opposed the creation of a commission to investigate the governmental failures that had helped make possible the terrorist attacks. But the widows, the "Jersey girls," carried the prestige of tragedy that made their insistence irresistible. The testimony of Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism chief, that the Bush administration had been indifferent to terrorism shattered the atmosphere of silent obedience. His truth-telling surfaced the simmering revolt of professionals throughout the national security bureaucracies — the CIA and other intelligence services, the senior officer corps of the military and the State Department. Then the rationales for the war crumbled when no WMD were found, and the cakewalk turned into a bloody quagmire. Suddenly, the Democratic presidential party came to life, providing a forum and focus for outrage against Bush’s policies. At first, the movement gathered around Howard Dean as an emblem of resistance, not only for verbalizing criticism of Bush but for standing apart from the enfeebled Democratic leadership. But the Democrats saw that with his stumbles Dean was not the man for the mission. Bush had counted on the Democrats once again picking an earnest but easily defeated candidate like George McGovern or Michael Dukakis, but they turned instead to John Kerry. Beginning in March 2004 through the early summer, Bush’s campaign spent more than $100 million on negative commercials trying to disqualify Kerry. Yet, Kerry remained even and with the Democratic Convention pulled slightly ahead. In a typical Bush operation, he outsourced the smears to a group that filled the airwaves with lies about Kerry’s record of genuine war heroism in Vietnam. The media, mostly cable TV, acted as conduit for Bush’s falsehoods, and Kerry was tarnished. At the Republican Convention, speaker after speaker stressed the Democrats’ effeminacy — "girlie men" — and hailed Bush as all-wise commander in chief. Once again, Bush believed he was impregnable. All he had to do was finesse the debates. But he was humiliated in all three. Kerry, however, demonstrated clarity, intelligence and maturity. Bush’s response was a new ad, featuring wolves about to leap through the TV screen. But the projection of fear only exposed his vulnerability. extravagant pretensions from success in war is to forget how hollow is the confidence by which you are elated. For if many ill-conceived plans have succeeded through the still greater fatuity of an opponent, many more, apparently well laid, have on the contrary ended in disgrace." Meanwhile, the people’s own mobilization has produced new voter registrations in the millions, and hundreds of thousands of activists have spread in the past week across the battleground states. The Republicans desperately cast out ploys to suppress these voters, many of them African-American. In the end, the American people refuse to be frightened into becoming an unrecognizable nation that disdains, as the Declaration of Independence said, "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind." _____ About the writer Sidney Blumenthal, a former assistant and senior advisor to President Clinton and the author of "The Clinton Wars," is writing a column for Salon and the Guardian of London.        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access               at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

Relax Bruce.  It just doesn’t matter anymore. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The unmaking of the president Why the incumbent who should have won in a cakewalk is headed for defeat next week. – - – - – - – - – - – - By Sidney Blumenthal Oct. 27, 2004  |  The unmaking of the president 2004 began on Sept. 11, 2001. By Sept. 10, George W. Bush’s poll numbers had reached 50 percent, the lowest of any president at that early point in his tenure. Having lost the popular majority in the 2000 election and been delivered the presidency by a 5-4 Supreme Court decision, Bush operated as though he had triumphed with a full-throated mandate. "From the very day we walked in the building," Vice President Cheney remarked, "a notion of sort of a restrained presidency because it was such a close election, that lasted maybe 30 seconds. It was not contemplated for any length of time. We had an agenda, we ran on that agenda, we won the election — full speed ahead." From the start Bush ran a government based on secrecy, handed over departments and agencies to more than 100 industry executives and lobbyists appointed to key positions, and exhibited belligerence toward anyone who raised a question about his right-wing imperatives. His bullying prompted Republican Sen. James Jeffords of Vermont to cross the aisle, throwing control of the Senate to the Democrats. In just months, Bush’s incompetence and arrogance had induced paralysis. His presidency had already run his course. "Never did I dream I’d hit the trifecta," said Bush after Sept. 11. As his poll numbers soared he wrapped his radical agenda in the cloak of commander in chief. Now he would attempt to implement Karl Rove’s ambition of a one-party state and the neoconservatives’ plan for an American imperium. Bush believed he had permanent political capital to forge a factional partisan political realignment. The war in Afghanistan, almost unanimously supported in the country, solidified his popularity and certainty. The conservative wish list came off the shelf. Civil liberties were curtailed with the passage of the PATRIOT Act, extremists nominated as federal judges (one candidate even opposed the inclusion of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution), environmental protections ravaged and resources shifted from the Afghan war theater to prepare for Bush’s ultimate objective — Iraq. After the summer, the pressure for invasion mounted. "From a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August," said White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card at the time. The midterm elections of 2002 ratified Bush’s hyper-radicalism. In the face of the "war president," members of the congressional Democratic leadership demonstrated political ineptitude, division and confusion, and the Republicans tarred them as unpatriotic. Bush’s belief in his inevitability became more intoxicating. After the Iraq "cakewalk," Bush landed on an aircraft carrier wearing a "Top Gun" uniform, proclaiming "Mission accomplished." At home, he encountered no checks and balances from Congress. The fourth estate conducted press conferences as though suffering from aphasia; it was intimidated, self-censoring and discredited through complicity in the orchestration of disinformation. Only the lonely voices of the Sept. 11 widows demanded an accounting. Bush opposed the creation of a commission to investigate the governmental failures that had helped make possible the terrorist attacks. But the widows, the "Jersey girls," carried the prestige of tragedy that made their insistence irresistible. The testimony of Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism chief, that the Bush administration had been indifferent to terrorism shattered the atmosphere of silent obedience. His truth-telling surfaced the simmering revolt of professionals throughout the national security bureaucracies — the CIA and other intelligence services, the senior officer corps of the military and the State Department. Then the rationales for the war crumbled when no WMD were found, and the cakewalk turned into a bloody quagmire. Suddenly, the Democratic presidential party came to life, providing a forum and focus for outrage against Bush’s policies. At first, the movement gathered around Howard Dean as an emblem of resistance, not only for verbalizing criticism of Bush but for standing apart from the enfeebled Democratic leadership. But the Democrats saw that with his stumbles Dean was not the man for the mission. Bush had counted on the Democrats once again picking an earnest but easily defeated candidate like George McGovern or Michael Dukakis, but they turned instead to John Kerry. Beginning in March 2004 through the early summer, Bush’s campaign spent more than $100 million on negative commercials trying to disqualify Kerry. Yet, Kerry remained even and with the Democratic Convention pulled slightly ahead. In a typical Bush operation, he outsourced the smears to a group that filled the airwaves with lies about Kerry’s record of genuine war heroism in Vietnam. The media, mostly cable TV, acted as conduit for Bush’s falsehoods, and Kerry was tarnished. At the Republican Convention, speaker after speaker stressed the Democrats’ effeminacy — "girlie men" — and hailed Bush as all-wise commander in chief. Once again, Bush believed he was impregnable. All he had to do was finesse the debates. But he was humiliated in all three. Kerry, however, demonstrated clarity, intelligence and maturity. Bush’s response was a new ad, featuring wolves about to leap through the TV screen. But the projection of fear only exposed his vulnerability. extravagant pretensions from success in war is to forget how hollow is the confidence by which you are elated. For if many ill-conceived plans have succeeded through the still greater fatuity of an opponent, many more, apparently well laid, have on the contrary ended in disgrace." Meanwhile, the people’s own mobilization has produced new voter registrations in the millions, and hundreds of thousands of activists have spread in the past week across the battleground states. The Republicans desperately cast out ploys to suppress these voters, many of them African-American. In the end, the American people refuse to be frightened into becoming an unrecognizable nation that disdains, as the Declaration of Independence said, "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind." _____ About the writer Sidney Blumenthal, a former assistant and senior advisor to President Clinton and the author of "The Clinton Wars," is writing a column for Salon and the Guardian of London.        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access               at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

Question:

i HATE bush Evil bushite soldiers are the enemies of America, Humanity, and God.

snpd http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

SNPD                        You Choose Evil  rumsfeld  lies to America to murder true Patriots. Rotten  rumsfeld  tells US, on "Face the Nation", Saddam refused to allow UNRESTRICTED UN weapon inspectors to do our  job,  and  that  is  why he and the antiChrist bush started  a  war against God to rob and kill our families without  known  cause  he  claims.   Who cares right?  A proud  bushite  unjust slave whore soldier, who supports death   squads   against  true  Christian  children  and teachers,  stealing our family’s pensions, torturing the innocent,  and the murdering of thousands of New Yorkers while   destroying   American  principles  like  pushing heroin,  (including the secretly eating, of radio-active heavy  metaled  toxic waste as weakly cowards too stupid to  ever bravely proclaim their lives as something truly important),  is  a  blessing  to  US  all  as  Humanity, correct? No. Truly,  they’re  not wising up, or dying fast enough for my  liking.  Likely, it was pro-bush factions that would consider  attacking the war crime documenters Red Cross, the  neutered soft spoken UN sacrificed already by Anan, or just US general citizenry.  (((read Chalabi on the UN attack  forewarned, the needless bombing of Iraq, or the stealing  of  almost half the monthly IRAQI four billion dollar America tax payer bill going  wherever  but where claimed  for,  humanitarian  aid  stolen  to  pay double billers commi Halliburton, corporate american bigotry on Christian Palestinians, or the thwarted ORHA plan to not rob  the  Central Bank of our principle, or the American pension  theives Worldcom protected by evil bushite nazi slave  soldiers,  to  rob their own grand parents.))) If you  will  recall  the  likes  of  the UNARRESTED buford blount,  (that  ANY  armed  real  PATRIOT  would destroy instantly  as traitor), enjoys murdering anybody like an American  could  be, for nothing, no reason buford tells you  openly  threatening.   (Demanding  your  siding  to victimize  God/Jesus  for  buford  blount’s personal war criminal purpose, granted from Your inaction and silence on  issues  of denying Universal Justice to "others", to later ask DIVINE promise keeper God, why you’ve forsaken Yourself  as  unworthy  to care for?) Apparently, buford blount  just wanted to let America know he, rumsfeld and bush  were  pirating  the  American  flag, thinking they thinks  theys  stronger  than  US  all for murdering the defenseless  as  enemies  to  everything.   Expecting an excepting  american  inbred  slave  culture of corporate hatred   for  God  and  education,  to  ignore  publicly practicing  a  continuing  disrespect  for  Freedom  and Justice  as our own being of Humanity, included to being further robbed, and left for dead broke as more innocent victims readied for demon bush plunder.  Look, the demon bushites dumped thousands of tons of depleted uranium on themslves   that   oxidizes  to  microscopic  particles, including plutonium, to heinously attack everyone as God for Generations, while passing executive order, 13303, a universal  declaration, that states the secret nazi bush jr.   government, can not be held accountable to any Law of  Peoples  everywhere.   Universal, but with no God to know of, or so demon bush says so. Fuk,  I  HATE  that  unarrested American cop killer, the evil  false-deity  antiChrist,  Our  Mr.  bush Jr., more than  anything  else  ever. (Get bush for the dead guy.) Then  rotten  rumsfeld  told  US,  Saddam  released  all prisoners,   with   the   single  exception  of  violent offenders…    Oops,  no,  that’s  not  what  he  said, instead,  he lied AGAIN to rob and kill our families for pension  theives Worldcom, Dutch-Shell, and Halliburton, while   allowing  the  stolen  Enron  cash  to  continue escaping  unapprehended, sitting unhidden, at the Cayman Islands,  leaving  a dead Patriot soldier’s mom and pop, to  pay  the  blank  check,  now  and forever bush still claims as demon antiChrist.  What kind of honor is it to die  protecting  the 911 perpetrators I ask the American Army, Navy, and Marines!?!!? Look,  we  arrest  those  whom commit murder, so to save some  lives, but American Soldiers are kept insisting by corporate command, are too cowardly, weak, and stupid as the not informed to know any better, lead to be suicidal as enemies of God, for I’d as gentle jolly Jesus kill an attacking  proud  bushite  soldier  myself  proudly, but shhhh. Listen  my  friend,  if  you help destroy the antiChrist bush  for  US as yourself, I’ll owe you booming billions in thanks and gratitude for  saving  me  some  time  and heartaches. I love you man. — Global Eye — An Inspector Calls By Chris Floyd http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/10/31/120.html / /   But  we  were  wrong.  Far from being a whitewash, Kay’s  report  has  turned  out  to  be  one of the most devastating  and  unflinching  expos es of war crimes in world  history.  In damning detail, Kay has revealed the torturous  machinations and evil practices of a ruthless tyrant  seeking  to  thwart  the  clear  will  of the UN Security  Council and the international community, using false  declarations  and  crude  propaganda  to mask his secret  plans to abet terrorism, wage aggressive war and threaten   the   entire   world  with  weapons  of  mass destruction.   Those  apologists  for  tyranny,  who for months  doubted  the veracity of these charges, have now been  shown  to  be  nothing  more  than  knaves, fools, lickspittles and dupes. …Not   since  the  Nuremberg  Trials  has  a  criminal conspiracy  to  commit  state  terrorism been so nakedly revealed.  …   — Administration sees what it wants to see By MAUREEN DOWD http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/146223_dowd31.html / /   Speaking  to  reporters  this  week, Bush made the bizarre  argument that the worse things get in Iraq, the better  news  it is.  "The more successful we are on the ground, the more these killers will react," he said. In  other  words, bush has no plan but to lead US all to hell,  for  if  you die under his criminal rule, he will celebrate,  and  ask  to bring more on to criminally war ourselves  as  the undefended.  I say, how about we just get  the  God  betrayer  demon  bush himself instead for everyone in America as worthy of protecting? Johnny Wizard — Where are the missing billions? http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1074267,00.html / /   So,  should we be asking why Iraq, a middle-income country,  is  worth  so  much  more  to  the  world than Afghanistan,  which  is  one of the poorest countries on earth and has few natural resources?   — Some Johnny splats: / / Don’t forget,  Our Mr. bush  Jr.   also participated directly   with   the   9/11   strategy’s,   top  secret Presidential  Directive, of offering no evidence against Bin  regarding  some  crime  that wasn’t galvanizing the world  like  the lucky, World Trade Center incidents did in  time sensibly.  Without 9/11, what would Powell look like from when in August he gave the Taliban 43 million, to  then in September, going after those that funded the Justice  supporters?   How?   And,  where  is the Saddam money  gone  for the food shipments?!  Our Mr.  bush Jr. has  it  secretly he writes.  He also writes he will not be  accountable  to  any  rules  of Law in this Universe regarding  the  ownership  of  said monies he has stolen through the UN not chirping.  I told you, no leadership. (Good  thing  we  showed up to raise the dead eh?  Nudge nudge.) / / So, well.. that  demon  bush doesn’t seem to want to stop murdering US for his own personal criminal exploits with rumsfeld, eh?  One bomb-shell after another depicts the  demon  bush as a traitor to everything the American flag  once  represented,  but  do  we see the CNN celebs reporting   impartially   on  behalf  of  the  neglected suffering  American soldiers falling DEAD as expendable? being  NEEDLESSLY  contaminated  by  radioactive nuclear waste  to  further  profit  from  de-valuating THEIR own ACTUAL  stolen lives dying?  Corporate american soldiers being  left  measured  as  valueless,  along  with a few thousand   generations   of  our  victimized  families?, weighed  unworthy  to  the  huge  corporate  savings  of recklessly dumping hazardous waste on US all as Humanity for  the  bushmob  to  sinisterly  smirk as Our enemies? Enemies  of  my Father who Art in Heaven?  Or, is ALL of America  just  as  CNN illustrates by censorship and the propaganda   of   silence  in  contempt,  infested  with pervasive  cultist  bushwhore nazi irrationalisms, truly dying  cowards  sacrificing  their  OWN brethren for the evil bush demon to further plunder God as all People? — (an oldie but a goodie) All for our ability to communicate freely There is one thing that is strangely absent from our news coverage as unbiased bushwhores who are actually devaluing under the tyranny of the evil antiChrist, Our Mr. Bush Jr., and that is.. Blix nor Elbaradei, nor Kofi, suggested, implied, or stated, that Iraq had failed to comply with the newest U.N. resolution: 1441. I think Patriot Americans would be thankful for Canadian friends and family who are supporting American troops by pointing out with no contention but for censorship, that American soldiers are being sacrificed for no known good reason under the demon antiChrist, Our Mr. Bush Jr., again. The bushites tell US they wish to bring freedom on the premise that Saddam wasn’t … read more »

Response:

9/11 families seek curb on probe officer http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20031006-122407-9185r.htm Remember: Condoleeza personally, with General Ahmad, devised the "invasion of Afghanistan without any evidence plan", a plan to not follow the criminal leads involving the murder of thousands of Americans. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                       Bill Kush So,   Syria,   on   the   behest   of   the  demon  bush administration,  arrested  without  charges the Canadian Arar, blamed him as a terrorist in cahoots with whomever without any evidence or access to a lawyer, and finally, after international pressure to think rationally instead of  lawlessly  plundering  our  rights  away  to  die as godless cowards for criminal bush, released Arar back to Canada  without  unjust  corporate  america  asking  any further  questions.  Then, Israel bombs civilian targets excused  by  a video filmed underground, for nothing but to  say,  Syria wasn’t doing enough to speak out against the    geography,    or   injustices  committed  against humanity  by  sharon.   Like  the  nazi Israeli military blowing up the neighboring homes to the one of where the actual suicide bomber suffered, while reassuring US that nobody  lived there anyway.  (Now, what if that was Your community  as  a  true  God  living  Christian,  Jew, or Atheist?)   The Likud party has discrimination laws that only  apply  to  "jews",  and persecutes innocent people like  Christ  is,  with  criminal INTENT routinely.  You know  Christ?, King of the Jews?  What connection do the victims in Syria have to the allegations Israel has made about  senseless  killing?  What can’t they figure those nazi  sympathizing dumfuks?  Imagine this:  You own your own  home,  built  by  your granddad, you work an honest twelve  hour  day  for your spouse and children that you deeply  love,  THEN,  the  nazi bushites break down your door,   steal   all  your  possessions,  (including  the Christmas toys under the tree), and send you out to live in a concentration camp to be terrorized repeatedly, all tax  funded by americans to pay monsters like negroponte to   escape   legal   questions,  or  incarceration  for condoning  crimes against our humanity for decades.  Mr. sharon  is  not  Jewish, nor is the general population a fair,  well  balanced Human representation.  (Yeah, come from anywhere in the world as a labeled "jew", and STEAL someone’s  earned  wages,  and the ungodly bushites will tax  fund  it  to  share  the  kick backs from the blood drenched  antiJew  sharon  crowd,  or don’t, because you love  God as your neighbor.) Being Jewish is a religion, (like  in  Ethiopia)  while  being  a  Palestinian, is a nationality encompassing all distinctions there present. (Like  in  America’s  forgotten  Constitution.) Atheist, Christian,  Jew,  and otherwise as potentializing equals through  true  freedom  practiced  politically.  The Jew haters   of   Israel  have  jew  only  roads  in  stolen territory,   paid   for   by  sacrificing  Americans  as principle.   DYING!  What can’t you figure anti-Semitic, God hating nazi Jew killers? Again,  I  as  Creator,  am still seriously pleading and begging  for YOU, a rare real Patriot to work for ending the  criminal  life  of the war mongering God betrayers, bush  and  rumsfeld,  for  escaping  criminal arrest for perpetrating,  aiding  and  abetting  in  the  murder of thousands  of  Americans  in  New  York  City,  and then feeding Patriot American soldiers, a toxic, radioactive, microscopic   heavy   metal   dust   comprised  of  also plutonium,  just  to  pocket  a few thousand dollars for bush’s  reelection  coffers..,  or  continue sacrificing your TRUE meaning and purpose as an enemy of Justice., a traitor to your family, country, and Humanity. If you believe, Johnny Wizard —                       The Most Insidious of Traitors http://www.rense.com/general42/trait.htm           / /     In  short,  in  order  to  protect Bush from the ramifications  of  using  fake evidence to   support his war,  this White House destroyed an intelligence network that  was  protecting      us  from  the threat posed by chemical,  biological,  and  nuclear  weapons.     — Contra Aide http://www.globalpolicy.org/unitedstates/unpolicy/gen2001/0308negr.htm / /      And,  the  year  before,  Americas  Watch,  the precursor  to  Human  Rights   Watch/Americas, subtitled its   report   on  abuses  in  Honduras  "Signs  of  the `Argentine     Method.’" In a damaging four-part series, Ginger  Thompson  and  Gary  Cohn of the   Baltimore Sun discovered  that  in  1982  alone  the Honduran press at least  318  stories  of     extrajudicial actions by the military.  The  series  further alleged that the embassy (and  a   select group of higher-ups in Washington) knew of  the abuses and that the American   public as well as Congress were consistently "deceived." In 1994, when the National      Commissioner  for  the Protection of Human Rights  in  Honduras published a preliminary   report on disappearances,   the   first   public   recognition  of responsibility  by  the Honduran   government, it listed 179  people as still missing and unaccounted for. And in 1995  Rick      Chidester,  a  former embassy aide under Negroponte,  revealed  to the Sun that his   supervisors had  ordered  him  to  remove allegations of torture and executions  from  his  draft    of the 1982 human rights report.     — http://www.projectcensored.org/   / /     Some of the information published as part of the project  is  pretty  shocking,  like the fact   that the U.S.  removed  8,000  incriminating  pages  from  Iraq’s weapons  report  to  the U.N.;   or that Donald Rumsfeld may have a plan to deliberately provoke terrorists so we can      react. Other issues – like the attacks on civil liberties – have been covered in the   mainstream press, but  not in the comprehensive way Project Censored would like to see. So,  without  further  ado,  here  are  the  "Top  Ten Censored Stories" of 2003:   —  / / Instead of murdering our   own families as war criminals for bush to pilfer the  undefended    wallets of our grandparents, why don’t  we  all  smarten  up,  and  just    bill the unarrested   demon   bush  instead  as  something  truly Patriotic?      What’d ya say? I say, let’s just destroy  evil  bush  instead  for        escaping    arrest  at  911,  stay  loaded  if necessary for cheney,  then demand a    change in altitude down at CNN  headquarters for our benefits to be    included in future broadcast material. Examples to start on: —   A Johnny splat from   "All   for   our   ability   to   communicate  freely"   ….   HANS   BLIX:   "And  at  this  juncture,  we  are able to   perform professional no-notice inspections all over Iraq         and  to  increase  aerial  surveillance…"   Does    a    bushwhore   devolving  society  where  we murder     ourselves  on  irrational suspicions to steal our  worths      to  give  to  the  bushmob  as victims, sound  like  a  bad    preposition  to  you too friend? What  is  bush’s  panacea    of packaged eternal freedom absent Justice mean truly as   measured  to  you  judged unfairly as the general Public   unawares?   How EXACTLY is  the bushmob going to liberate   the  oppressed  and disenfranchised    without expressing   public knowledge on the subject on indivisibility?  See?   If    bush    actually   had evidence to truly believe Saddam    does  in  our  present  day have control as in political      possession,  weapons of mass destruction, sold  to  Saddam     illegally  by  America  to  gas the enemy with the then,   full  blessings  from  the  great satan,  bush would have   provided  as such to the UN to be  legitimately  concerned      for  "The  People"  in Uzbekistan   included, right?  He   would  need  to know where  abouts he comes to understand   so,   no?   Mr.   Bush  Jr.   couldn’t  be  sure  enough   otherwise   to  toss      cowardly  American  soldiers  as   worthless without    meanings,  to be sacrificed as he is   doing for    financial    private   profit  paid  for by the   victimized  public,  could he?     — Two years on and what the f… ? http://www.unknownnews.net/030915a-sb.html / /    We haven’t yet understood that it is impossible   to   wage   war   against  an  abstract  noun.       —   New York, You’ve Been Used   By William Rivers Pitt   http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0309/S00144.htm / /      So what, you may say. September 11 happened. We have to respond.I would answer   with the following: First   of   all,   understand  that  these  ideas  were formulated  well  before   September 11. These officials within  the  Bush  administration did not cobble these   concepts  together  in the aftermath of that attack, but had them waiting before the attack   ever came, and used the  attack  to  bulldog these ruinous policies out into the  world.  That  is      disturbing  on its face. In a moment,  I  will share with you the most disturbing part of all.  But first, this. — Short and Sweet

… read more »

Response:

                      Bill Kush So,   Syria,   on   the   behest   of   the  demon  bush administration,  arrested  without  charges the Canadian Arar, blamed him as a terrorist in cahoots with whomever without any evidence or access to a lawyer, and finally, after international pressure to think rationally instead of  lawlessly  plundering  our  rights  away  to  die as godless cowards for criminal bush, released Arar back to Canada  without  unjust  corporate  america  asking  any further  questions.  Then, Israel bombs civilian targets excused  by  a video filmed underground, for nothing but to  say,  Syria wasn’t doing enough to speak out against the    geography,    or   injustices  committed  against humanity  by  sharon.   Like  the  nazi Israeli military blowing up the neighboring homes to the one of where the actual suicide bomber suffered, while reassuring US that nobody  lived there anyway.  (Now, what if that was Your community  as  a  true  God  living  Christian,  Jew, or Atheist?)   The Likud party has discrimination laws that only  apply  to  "jews",  and persecutes innocent people like  Christ  is,  with  criminal INTENT routinely.  You know  Christ?, King of the Jews?  What connection do the victims in Syria have to the allegations Israel has made about  senseless  killing?  What can’t they figure those nazi  sympathizing dumfuks?  Imagine this:  You own your own  home,  built  by  your granddad, you work an honest twelve  hour  day  for your spouse and children that you deeply  love,  THEN,  the  nazi bushites break down your door,   steal   all  your  possessions,  (including  the Christmas toys under the tree), and send you out to live in a concentration camp to be terrorized repeatedly, all tax  funded by americans to pay monsters like negroponte to   escape   legal   questions,  or  incarceration  for condoning  crimes against our humanity for decades.  Mr. sharon  is  not  Jewish, nor is the general population a fair,  well  balanced Human representation.  (Yeah, come from anywhere in the world as a labeled "jew", and STEAL someone’s  earned  wages,  and the ungodly bushites will tax  fund  it  to  share  the  kick backs from the blood drenched  antiJew  sharon  crowd,  or don’t, because you love  God as your neighbor.) Being Jewish is a religion, (like  in  Ethiopia)  while  being  a  Palestinian, is a nationality encompassing all distinctions there present. (Like  in  America’s  forgotten  Constitution.) Atheist, Christian,  Jew,  and otherwise as potentializing equals through  true  freedom  practiced  politically.  The Jew haters   of   Israel  have  jew  only  roads  in  stolen territory,   paid   for   by  sacrificing  Americans  as principle.   DYING!  What can’t you figure anti-Semitic, God hating nazi Jew killers? Again,  I  as  Creator,  am still seriously pleading and begging  for YOU, a rare real Patriot to work for ending the  criminal  life  of the war mongering God betrayers, bush  and  rumsfeld,  for  escaping  criminal arrest for perpetrating,  aiding  and  abetting  in  the  murder of thousands  of  Americans  in  New  York  City,  and then feeding Patriot American soldiers, a toxic, radioactive, microscopic   heavy   metal   dust   comprised  of  also plutonium,  just  to  pocket  a few thousand dollars for bush’s  reelection  coffers..,  or  continue sacrificing your TRUE meaning and purpose as an enemy of Justice., a traitor to your family, country, and Humanity. If you believe, Johnny Wizard —                       The Most Insidious of Traitors http://www.rense.com/general42/trait.htm           / /     In  short,  in  order  to  protect Bush from the ramifications  of  using  fake evidence to   support his war,  this White House destroyed an intelligence network that  was  protecting      us  from  the threat posed by chemical,  biological,  and  nuclear  weapons.     — Contra Aide http://www.globalpolicy.org/unitedstates/unpolicy/gen2001/0308negr.htm / /      And,  the  year  before,  Americas  Watch,  the precursor  to  Human  Rights   Watch/Americas, subtitled its   report   on  abuses  in  Honduras  "Signs  of  the `Argentine     Method.’" In a damaging four-part series, Ginger  Thompson  and  Gary  Cohn of the   Baltimore Sun discovered  that  in  1982  alone  the Honduran press at least  318  stories  of     extrajudicial actions by the military.  The  series  further alleged that the embassy (and  a   select group of higher-ups in Washington) knew of  the abuses and that the American   public as well as Congress were consistently "deceived." In 1994, when the National      Commissioner  for  the Protection of Human Rights  in  Honduras published a preliminary   report on disappearances,   the   first   public   recognition  of responsibility  by  the Honduran   government, it listed 179  people as still missing and unaccounted for. And in 1995  Rick      Chidester,  a  former embassy aide under Negroponte,  revealed  to the Sun that his   supervisors had  ordered  him  to  remove allegations of torture and executions  from  his  draft    of the 1982 human rights report.     — http://www.projectcensored.org/   / /     Some of the information published as part of the project  is  pretty  shocking,  like the fact   that the U.S.  removed  8,000  incriminating  pages  from  Iraq’s weapons  report  to  the U.N.;   or that Donald Rumsfeld may have a plan to deliberately provoke terrorists so we can      react. Other issues – like the attacks on civil liberties – have been covered in the   mainstream press, but  not in the comprehensive way Project Censored would like to see. So,  without  further  ado,  here  are  the  "Top  Ten Censored Stories" of 2003:   —  / / Instead of murdering our   own families as war criminals for bush to pilfer the  undefended    wallets of our grandparents, why don’t  we  all  smarten  up,  and  just    bill the unarrested   demon   bush  instead  as  something  truly Patriotic?      What’d ya say? I say, let’s just destroy  evil  bush  instead  for        escaping    arrest  at  911,  stay  loaded  if necessary for cheney,  then demand a    change in altitude down at CNN  headquarters for our benefits to be    included in future broadcast material. Examples to start on: —   A Johnny splat from   "All   for   our   ability   to   communicate  freely"   ….   HANS   BLIX:   "And  at  this  juncture,  we  are able to   perform professional no-notice inspections all over Iraq         and  to  increase  aerial  surveillance…"   Does    a    bushwhore   devolving  society  where  we murder     ourselves  on  irrational suspicions to steal our  worths      to  give  to  the  bushmob  as victims, sound  like  a  bad    preposition  to  you too friend? What  is  bush’s  panacea    of packaged eternal freedom absent Justice mean truly as   measured  to  you  judged unfairly as the general Public   unawares?   How EXACTLY is  the bushmob going to liberate   the  oppressed  and disenfranchised    without expressing   public knowledge on the subject on indivisibility?  See?   If    bush    actually   had evidence to truly believe Saddam    does  in  our  present  day have control as in political      possession,  weapons of mass destruction, sold  to  Saddam     illegally  by  America  to  gas the enemy with the then,   full  blessings  from  the  great satan,  bush would have   provided  as such to the UN to be  legitimately  concerned      for  "The  People"  in Uzbekistan   included, right?  He   would  need  to know where  abouts he comes to understand   so,   no?   Mr.   Bush  Jr.   couldn’t  be  sure  enough   otherwise   to  toss      cowardly  American  soldiers  as   worthless without    meanings,  to be sacrificed as he is   doing for    financial    private   profit  paid  for by the   victimized  public,  could he?     — Two years on and what the f… ? http://www.unknownnews.net/030915a-sb.html / /    We haven’t yet understood that it is impossible   to   wage   war   against  an  abstract  noun.       —   New York, You’ve Been Used   By William Rivers Pitt   http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0309/S00144.htm / /      So what, you may say. September 11 happened. We have to respond.I would answer   with the following: First   of   all,   understand  that  these  ideas  were formulated  well  before   September 11. These officials within  the  Bush  administration did not cobble these   concepts  together  in the aftermath of that attack, but had them waiting before the attack   ever came, and used the  attack  to  bulldog these ruinous policies out into the  world.  That  is      disturbing  on its face. In a moment,  I  will share with you the most disturbing part of all.  But first, this. — Short and Sweet "The inquiry heard last week that the words "may be able to",  referring  to the 45 minute claim, were dropped on the  orders  of  Mr Campbell and replaced with "are able to"." Oh,  and  the  45 minute claim was actually referring to small  caliber weaponry, not sexy WMD…  

snpd From Johnny Wizard’s "Believe"  / /  In other words,  the bush administration has confessed completely to  US,  the  People,  to  have  absolutely no political interest  in  following the primary crime scene evidence surrounding   the   murder   of  thousands  of  American citizens.   Golly G, I wonder why that might be. — U.S. lawmakers say Iraq WMD intelligence deficient http://asia.news.yahoo.com/030928/3/152ln.html / / "The absence of proof that chemical and biological weapons and their related development programs had … read more »

Response:

"The inquiry heard last week that the words "may be able to", referring to the 45 minute claim, were dropped on the orders of Mr Campbell and replaced with "are able to"."

Not true. Campbell was in no position to give orders. If that claim hadn’t been made, what would you have to talk about? Oh, and the 45 minute claim was actually referring to small caliber weaponry, not sexy WMD…

We don’t know that. Never mind for the moment about those other forgotten lines from the false plagiarized dossier, where "monitoring" foreign embassies, becomes "spying" on them

And what do you think the diference is? Given that Saddam was an enemy ‘n all… and "aiding opposition groups.." becomes "supporting terrorist organizations…".

How do you know they weren’t terrorist organisations? Anyway, unmistakable repeating conduct that Blair told US he should resign over. Or be immediately arrested as war criminal. Simple.

Yeah. Let’s allow a real war criminal like Saddam to go free, and arrest the people trying to put an end to his tyranny. Simple … if you’re a fascist appeaser or a moron. Why has Blair worked diligently to make this more complicated than it is?

What’s complicated about it? Here we have a fascist tyrant, never happier than when putting his people through industrial meat grinders for not smiling hard enough when his motorcade sweeps by …who was concealing whether or not he still had the weapons of mass destruction we foolishly sold him when we thought he could help us defeat communism (and Khomenni-ism) …who had gassed 5,000 innocent Kurds at least, had crushed the Marsh Arabs, who had invaded Iran (with our aid but not our instigation), who had invaded Kuwait, who was funding terrorism in Israel and Kurdistan and may sooner or later have aided Osama bin Laden …who was sitting on massive oil reserves which in the wrong hands could fund terrorism for decades to come …who was costing us $millions in maintaining no-fly zones, causing corruption of friendly governments with his oil deals, who was causing thousands of refugees to flee westwards thus providing an excuse for the rise of nbeo fascism in Europe, who caused us to impose a sanctions policy he could circumvent at the expense of his own people …who was defying the UN …who we got rid of …whose country we are now obliged to rebuild. Assuming we get that bit right (as long as the Saddamites in the Stop the War coalition don’t get their way) …it seems pretty simple to me. Makes our lives too easy that’s why. When you think about it, who is going to recall, or fire the antiChrist demon bush?,

Not Saddam, Mullah Omar or Osama? Three tyrants Bush has defeated in two years. I’m no Bush fan but that’s pretty good work. as the American cop [snip insanity]

There sure are a lot of seriously mnad and morally crippled people out there… Wheeew.

Response:

Good point!

snpd "BOMBSHELL!" – General Garner is said to be ‘livid’ – "BOMBSHELL!" US army was told to protect museum http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,940082,00.html General Jay Garner, the head of ORHA, is said to be ‘livid’. ‘We asked for just a few soldiers at each building or, if they feared snipers, then just one or two tanks,’ said one ORHA official. ‘The tanks were doing nothing once they got inside the city, yet the generals refused to deploy them, and look what happened.’ The story. Jay, with the ORHA, prior to the irrational, unneeded criminal invasion of Iraq to murder untold thousands of God’s children for generations with toxic, radio-active depleted uranium, submitted the "official" American war strategy to ALL involved war generals. A strategy that has been publicly confessed as ignored under rumsfeld. For, it wouldn’t allow the (criminal) fleecing of America, by sacrificing dumfuk, leaderless teen soldiers for WorldCom and double billers, commi Hallliburton. See, Jay’s group figured, wisely, destroying vital Iraqi infrastructure, that served the Iraqi populace, would be stupid because, one, it would clearly, be an hanious evil crime against God and Humanity, but more importantly to godless corporate america, would cost billions of American tax dollars to correct. (Like paying cheney’s crew, 50,000 dollars a day as UNCONTESTED commi infiltrators! (See? Commi Nazi Network doesn’t find American principles as newsworthy by refusing to take open line calls.)) Again, no women or children were needed to be murdered by the, war profiteering bushite nazi forces because, we had one hundred percent access, without any restrictions. / / What can be changed now in Iraq, that couldn’t have been under the stable Saddam regime communicating? Outside of the criminal thefts of Iraqi assets? Could bush have demanded that innocent prisoners not be tortured, or at the least, be granted their day in a public court to face some sort of accusation? Does the forced bush mandate articulate somewhere in secret that evidence will no longer be a prerequisite to determine what is evil to all humanity?, now that he tyrants as demon antichrist? Bush eating words on war’s end BY LYNN SWEET http://www.suntimes.com/output/sweet/cst-edt-sweet11.html / / "What was the planning?” asked Kennedy. "And how do you possibly explain the inadequacy of that planning, and who’s going to pay the price for the inadequacy of that planning? Now we have the demon bush gang, spewing that, no need to worry about being robbed and left for dead America, cause, LOOK, corporate america will steal the Iraqi resources to pay even further to the bush demon who committed 9/11. Fuk, I hate that God betrayer demon antiChrist, Our Mr. bush Jr. with everything I am, or ever will be as human… — MAD AS HELL CHERI DELBROCCO WHERE’S THE COMPASSION? http://www.memphisflyer.com/onthefly/onthefly_new.asp?ID=2550 "Widow Lorie van Auken, when reflecting on that tragic day, said, “I couldn’t stop watching the president sitting there, listening to second-graders, while my husband was burning in a building.”" — Mr. cheney, on MEET THE PRESS, talking on his complete ignorance of Our intelligence community regarding the TRUE Saddam threat to World Peace, stated something like only bush could say- "Yeah but, who’s the CIA, I don’t know." He also told US, HE KNEW Saddam already had TONS of yellow cake prior to the false Niger claim, but still insisted, the unproven ludicrous demon bush lies were true as unsubstantiated by American Intel, or the facts on our ground. Too dumbly informed cheney CLAIMS to be unaware of his own speaking in public now. (Or American front page stories on his documented and frequent personal meetings.) Hmm. The war criminal bushmob conduct, profits off instability to further a Nation’s weakness for easier victimhood as the "portrayed" undefended. The lawless demon antiChrist claims US humans have no rights equal to his own as mass murderer. If a Nation should arrest bin Laden and openly try him innocent, or follow the ample public leads up to bush and rumsfeld, found guilty, will then America become the America we’ve all learned so much about as the People’s? — Dems Scrap Plans To Look Into Claims White House Manipulated Intel On Iraqi Threat by Jason Leopold http://globalresearch.ca/articles/LEO309A.html "Obey, who this week called for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, wrote a letter to the General Accounting Office last month to try and get the agency to investigate a secret Pentagon committee known as the Office of Special Plans." — Bush Administration Wants Subpoena Power That Doesn’t Require Approval From Judge or Grand Jury The Associated Press / / "It’s just a grab for more and more power," said Gerald Lefcourt, a New York attorney and past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. "They want to do things that they know a judge won’t approve of." — Have thugs will travel Bush Administration puts former Hussein torturers, executioners, and rapists on America’s payroll http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15603 / / According to Floyd, America’s tax dollars are now being used by the Bush Administration "to hire the murderers of the infamous Mukhabarat and other agents of the Baathist Gestapo — perhaps hundreds of them. The logic, if that’s the word," writes Floyd, "seems to be that these bloodstained ‘insiders’ will lead their new imperial masters to other bloodstained ‘insiders’ responsible for bombing the UN headquarters in Baghdad — and killing another dozen American soldiers…" … As Chris Floyd points out, this isn’t the first time the U.S. has embraced world class thugs and killers and put them in service of the homeland: It appears to be "business as usual for the American security apparatus, which happily incorporated scores of its Nazi brethren into the fold after World War II, and over the years has climbed into bed with many a casually raping and murdering thug — such as, er, Saddam Hussein, who spent a bit of quality time on the CIA payroll." — Some more Johnny splats: Who cares about yourself if you won’t listen as reason to? What can you lose when you have granted to be blindly stolen from? … What is publicly awarding WorldCom tax payers money, but a further continuation of the secret bushite’s criminal plan, a criminal plan of having US made also without questions asked, to blindly overpay tricky Halliburton, Dutch-Shell, along with Suharto and the Pinochet business partners billions of American dollars in overhead for nothing, while with what is left as a pittance is promised for sometime in our future to rebuild what bush and rumsfeld criminally destroyed, after murdering so many in New York City with 911, like Firefighters, and a wise, God loving, Holy Reverend. Where is the HELP for IRAQ as promised after victimizations from an imposed criminal dictatorship that is stealing the resources of US People as Iraqi? After bombing most public institutions with radio-active nuclear waste, then encouraging looting while allowing the ransacking of museums, soldiers still refused to protect nuclear facilities as the threat we were told they were going to die for as parasites. To witness bush bringing further hardships with his inaction in Afghanistan, and now in God’s love, Iraq, brings me to great anger. To have Iraq worse now falling plundered, than when Iraq was under the relatively stable, food, water, and security provisions of Saddam’s, who was communicating, is a further blatant insult to all those American Soldiers now dead from fighting for something they could never articulate publicly as bushite slaves to willful ignorance they bay as the asinine in secret. While bush tells US as the public, the UN sanctions plan for spending for the governed on continuing health and welfare, is something he, and Jay’s replacement bremer, wish to politically appose without question or law? Still? … Expect more casualties, warns Rumsfeld http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/6-27-03/discussion.cgi.66.html See how evil rotten rumsfeld is. He plays like dictator bremer is working for the Iraqi People by stealing our public assets for Dutch-Shell and Halliburton, while criminally persecuting the unjustly persecuted. Taking as alleged, from Iraqis as the completely innocent bremer boasts him and 911’s rumsfeld will continue protected, hiding behind the growing more disturbingly ignorant as cowardly, uninformed traitorous American Patriot Soldiers? How long my friends? How long must Our God wait for One true Patriot to whom we are all relying on maybe existing, to stand for Justice as Freedom?, you know, the good old red, white, and blue as Salutable? Evil bremer tells US he wants to criminally harm those who tried to make Iraq something better as secularists in a one party only government, those of whom we were told, were restrained as victimized under Saddam’s edge as tyrannical. Now bremer, as war crime director, wants to further persecute ourselves without public charges? Like in bush’s personal america under ashcroft issues? While demon bush now goals to invite the corrupt Wahabbi’s Vinnell, the repressive Allah haters, the dark evil side to Jihad, to suffer ourselves even more hardships against freedom everywhere? How long must the People of our World die for Americans to stand up against the bush demon God betrayer? Where are the CNN and CBC producer voices, (who refuse as supporters of tyranny, to respond to any community interaction on our top priority issues) as our OWN regarding the concentration camps where evil nazi forces murder our friends and family as the completely … read more »

Response:

Good point! — "I have seen the worst that man can do.and  I can still laugh loudly" R.J. Goldman http://www.usidfvets.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kill innocent people and celebrate the way those "manly"  Arab killers do. Do the Palestinian La-La Dance: Bomb a bus, a pizza parlor, attack the World Trade Center in NY And dance around laughing and hollering: "La-la-la-la-la"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                    One Giant Leap A  bushite  soldier, to be proud of committing senseless murder  for  the  American  cop  killer,  the Iraqi bank robber,   the  demon  bush  Jr.,  along  with  WorldCom, Dutch-Shell,  and  Halliburton,  is  not only a cowardly traitor  to  victimized  American  families,  but to all People  our  World  over.   Weak  as stupid and pathetic cowards,  who  instead  of bravely protecting America by killing the unarrested bush demon and rumsfeld for 9/11, side   instead  to  eat  DU  while  threatening  Justice everywhere  as  enemies  of  Humanity, freedom, and God. Where  are  true Patriot soldiers regarding tommy franks for  death  squadding children, or monster mass murderer buford  blount  killing thousands of innocent people for nothing  he  confesses freely as mad man?  Wimp ass nazi fuks,  fascist  commi vermin, uninformed as functionally dead anyway, are all proud bushite soldiers. Short and Sweet "The inquiry heard last week that the words "may be able to", referring to the 45 minute claim, were dropped on the orders of Mr Campbell and replaced with "are able to"." Oh, and the 45 minute claim was actually referring to small caliber weaponry, not sexy WMD… Never mind for the moment about those other forgotten lines from the false plagiarized dossier, where "monitoring" foreign embassies, becomes "spying" on them and "aiding opposition groups.." becomes "supporting terrorist organizations…". Anyway, unmistakable repeating conduct that Blair told US he should resign over. Or be immediately arrested as war criminal. Simple. Why has Blair worked diligently to make this more complicated than it is? Makes our lives too easy that’s why. When you think about it, who is going to recall, or fire the antiChrist demon bush?, as the American cop killing, innocent people torturing, heroin pushing death squad advocate he is by not listening, (so he says) as the top 9/11 instigator with rumsfeld, propped as puppeteer false leader in America being traitor to God and Johnny? Who but you can read this? Americans are too stupid, weak, and cowardly as dying to be enslaved individuals, to stand up as a brave People for the FBI investigators. At least that is what CNN tells US in silence and contempt for themselves, and their own flag, while they watch their very own brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors be needlessly sacrificed for the demon bush to steal even more as left for further plunder, wasting away. Just like corporate America expresses no human sympathy for the THOUSANDS of innocent families bombed NEEDLESSLY to please and glorify bush and rumsfeld. Or American Patriots billed billions in criminal over payments for Halliburton, and a soldier’s grand dad’s pension lifters, WorldCom. (Too complicated, and besides, who cares right?) What do the bushites care about The People in Iraq, when they sacrifice the lives and wages of America so easily, for nothing but stolen gains by increasing our hardships as suffering? True terrorists. Just watch CNN… Refusing to allow America to know the evil demon bush and rumsfeld dumped thousands of tons of radio-active toxic waste to kill People for generations, as enemies of life, they are enemies of God as all of our Humanity. America’s Arron Brown would watch soldiers die for nothing but to steal more from American savings, and say nothing of it while driving to the club to shmooze as something special. CNN has directly refused to discuss the CIA investigations into the 9/11 insider stock trades, like America shouldn’t be interested in Justice, or the facts there either? See, all CNN and bush can do to spin the bodies falling in coffins, is to claim, they died for nobel causes, namely, to victimize and persecute innocent people as enemies of American values. Every time I hear of another soldier casualty, I pray as death it was a bushite. A treasonous coward, who instead of killing the unarrested bush and rumsfeld for 9/11, or voicing concern for murdering a good people needlessly, side as attackers of the pratically helpless, starving, and innocent without question or misgivings. Like buford blount. Demon bush and rumsfeld’s murder rampages against women and children, to steal American money to fake rebuilding what was needlessly destroyed criminally, should have him immediately arrested or shot, before ourselves for. An antiChrist, Demon bush quote: "Every nation that stands on the side of freedom and the value of human rights must condemn terrorism and act against the few who would destroy the hopes of the many." Does demon bush figure if he just says that, we’ll truly forget about all the people he has terrorized, and murdered in New York City? (Remember: evil is dumb.) Hmmm. I guess bush forgot to mention without following our facts, or protecting ourselves from tyranny by Justice for Yourself included in the equation eh? Don’t forget, Jim at MSNBC reported about the top secret Presidential Directive documents, they anonymously received from Condoleeza’s office, outlining the demon bush strategy in detail. To invade Afghanistan for floundering Enron, bush would blame Afghanistan for a crime no evidence would TRULY connect Laden to, and as a result, the God betrayers could then refuse to follow the criminal leads and not apprehend the actually evil doers. Christ, I hate that demon bush with a holy vengence I do. What do you think? Be a real Patriot, destroy bush today, and be loved by all as God would. The Lord, Johnny Wizard — Blair Denies Exaggerating Iraqi Arms Threat By Glenn Frankel Washington Post, August 28, 2003 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/08/270883.shtml ""It was an extraordinary allegation to make and an extremely serious one," said Blair, adding, "Had the allegation been true, it would have merited my resignation."" — The Pentagon PR Machine At Work http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8725 ""There have been some people who have kind of concocted a goulash of snippets about this team that was working on the terrorist interconnections and the Special Plans Office, and they mixed them up when there’s no basis for the mix," Feith said, according to a transcript of the press conference. "!!! — [Some wonder Wizard words found on the net.] Who will ultimately suffer for American cowardice to protect themselves as equals? Israel the terror nation funded by the American tax payer, murders and steals from innocent civilians, US people, as criminals. What can’t you figure nazi slave dying corporate sell outs to yourselves losing? [Here's an oldie but a goodie mind splat.] … It’s like we’re being forced against our dying wills, to be promoted as sold, bush’s fantastical shenanigans, outright guffaws, or blushing embarrassments of dying US as MASS MURDER victims. A liar who criminalizes America as really destructing by self contempt through his own private delusions of grander in God’s presence as the deceived evil antichrist. Apparently, here in america, we’re either with criminal bush as slaves working for Dutch-Shell and WorldCom, or he’ll bomb US whom believe in fighting to preserve freedom for all people. Freedom like standing firm politically on the evidence requirement for arriving to guilty verdicts as our public representation. We do want to follow the criminal leads for 9/11 actually, while bush and rumsfeld do wish that we not find them as the treasonous prime perpetrators. Lies of injustice and slavery bush would make US believe we are without speaking of real power. Tyranting our caution, our beliefs, our creeds, into coercing the sacrifice of leaderless teen soldiers, our brothers, our sisters, to rob The People of our Constitutional values. Our freedoms as Justice in America, in Iraq, and at Guantanamo. Done in america’s name all for the doubly paid, pinko commi Halliburton, WorldCom, bremer, rumsfeld and Our Mr. bush Jr. Mr. bush, the demon who does all our talking without questioning for answers, who knows better than everybody else put together, the CIA and FBI included, doesn’t deserve your blind praise as a war criminal I would say in defense of anyone. Can we afford to leave more to fall "embarrassingly" dead by his criminal un-American exploits, as a demon God betrayer, human hater? What are you going to do about this Freedom of Yours shared with all here then friend? As of God or the Universe I mean? To not stand with Humanity against the injustices committed against ourselves at Guantanamo, is a failure to love anyone as being alive even. Those are US innocent People being criminally treated by evil sadistic nazi war criminaling bushite goons, savages who are protecting the 911 perpetrators from incarceration as

… read more »

Response:

Kill innocent people and celebrate the way those "manly"  Arab killers do. Do the Palestinian La-La Dance: Bomb a bus, a pizza parlor, attack the World Trade Center in NY And dance around laughing and hollering: "La-la-la-la-la" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                    One Giant Leap A  bushite  soldier, to be proud of committing senseless murder  for  the  American  cop  killer,  the Iraqi bank robber,   the  demon  bush  Jr.,  along  with  WorldCom, Dutch-Shell,  and  Halliburton,  is  not only a cowardly traitor  to  victimized  American  families,  but to all People  our  World  over.   Weak  as stupid and pathetic cowards,  who  instead  of bravely protecting America by killing the unarrested bush demon and rumsfeld for 9/11, side   instead  to  eat  DU  while  threatening  Justice everywhere  as  enemies  of  Humanity, freedom, and God. Where  are  true Patriot soldiers regarding tommy franks for  death  squadding children, or monster mass murderer buford  blount  killing thousands of innocent people for nothing  he  confesses freely as mad man?  Wimp ass nazi fuks,  fascist  commi vermin, uninformed as functionally dead anyway, are all proud bushite soldiers. Short and Sweet "The inquiry heard last week that the words "may be able to", referring to the 45 minute claim, were dropped on the orders of Mr Campbell and replaced with "are able to"." Oh, and the 45 minute claim was actually referring to small caliber weaponry, not sexy WMD… Never mind for the moment about those other forgotten lines from the false plagiarized dossier, where "monitoring" foreign embassies, becomes "spying" on them and "aiding opposition groups.." becomes "supporting terrorist organizations…". Anyway, unmistakable repeating conduct that Blair told US he should resign over. Or be immediately arrested as war criminal. Simple. Why has Blair worked diligently to make this more complicated than it is? Makes our lives too easy that’s why. When you think about it, who is going to recall, or fire the antiChrist demon bush?, as the American cop killing, innocent people torturing, heroin pushing death squad advocate he is by not listening, (so he says) as the top 9/11 instigator with rumsfeld, propped as puppeteer false leader in America being traitor to God and Johnny? Who but you can read this? Americans are too stupid, weak, and cowardly as dying to be enslaved individuals, to stand up as a brave People for the FBI investigators. At least that is what CNN tells US in silence and contempt for themselves, and their own flag, while they watch their very own brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors be needlessly sacrificed for the demon bush to steal even more as left for further plunder, wasting away. Just like corporate America expresses no human sympathy for the THOUSANDS of innocent families bombed NEEDLESSLY to please and glorify bush and rumsfeld. Or American Patriots billed billions in criminal over payments for Halliburton, and a soldier’s grand dad’s pension lifters, WorldCom. (Too complicated, and besides, who cares right?) What do the bushites care about The People in Iraq, when they sacrifice the lives and wages of America so easily, for nothing but stolen gains by increasing our hardships as suffering? True terrorists. Just watch CNN… Refusing to allow America to know the evil demon bush and rumsfeld dumped thousands of tons of radio-active toxic waste to kill People for generations, as enemies of life, they are enemies of God as all of our Humanity. America’s Arron Brown would watch soldiers die for nothing but to steal more from American savings, and say nothing of it while driving to the club to shmooze as something special. CNN has directly refused to discuss the CIA investigations into the 9/11 insider stock trades, like America shouldn’t be interested in Justice, or the facts there either? See, all CNN and bush can do to spin the bodies falling in coffins, is to claim, they died for nobel causes, namely, to victimize and persecute innocent people as enemies of American values. Every time I hear of another soldier casualty, I pray as death it was a bushite. A treasonous coward, who instead of killing the unarrested bush and rumsfeld for 9/11, or voicing concern for murdering a good people needlessly, side as attackers of the pratically helpless, starving, and innocent without question or misgivings. Like buford blount. Demon bush and rumsfeld’s murder rampages against women and children, to steal American money to fake rebuilding what was needlessly destroyed criminally, should have him immediately arrested or shot, before ourselves for. An antiChrist, Demon bush quote: "Every nation that stands on the side of freedom and the value of human rights must condemn terrorism and act against the few who would destroy the hopes of the many." Does demon bush figure if he just says that, we’ll truly forget about all the people he has terrorized, and murdered in New York City? (Remember: evil is dumb.) Hmmm. I guess bush forgot to mention without following our facts, or protecting ourselves from tyranny by Justice for Yourself included in the equation eh? Don’t forget, Jim at MSNBC reported about the top secret Presidential Directive documents, they anonymously received from Condoleeza’s office, outlining the demon bush strategy in detail. To invade Afghanistan for floundering Enron, bush would blame Afghanistan for a crime no evidence would TRULY connect Laden to, and as a result, the God betrayers could then refuse to follow the criminal leads and not apprehend the actually evil doers. Christ, I hate that demon bush with a holy vengence I do. What do you think? Be a real Patriot, destroy bush today, and be loved by all as God would. The Lord, Johnny Wizard — Blair Denies Exaggerating Iraqi Arms Threat By Glenn Frankel Washington Post, August 28, 2003 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/08/270883.shtml ""It was an extraordinary allegation to make and an extremely serious one," said Blair, adding, "Had the allegation been true, it would have merited my resignation."" — The Pentagon PR Machine At Work http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8725 ""There have been some people who have kind of concocted a goulash of snippets about this team that was working on the terrorist interconnections and the Special Plans Office, and they mixed them up when there’s no basis for the mix," Feith said, according to a transcript of the press conference. "!!! — [Some wonder Wizard words found on the net.] Who will ultimately suffer for American cowardice to protect themselves as equals? Israel the terror nation funded by the American tax payer, murders and steals from innocent civilians, US people, as criminals. What can’t you figure nazi slave dying corporate sell outs to yourselves losing? [Here's an oldie but a goodie mind splat.] … It’s like we’re being forced against our dying wills, to be promoted as sold, bush’s fantastical shenanigans, outright guffaws, or blushing embarrassments of dying US as MASS MURDER victims. A liar who criminalizes America as really destructing by self contempt through his own private delusions of grander in God’s presence as the deceived evil antichrist. Apparently, here in america, we’re either with criminal bush as slaves working for Dutch-Shell and WorldCom, or he’ll bomb US whom believe in fighting to preserve freedom for all people. Freedom like standing firm politically on the evidence requirement for arriving to guilty verdicts as our public representation. We do want to follow the criminal leads for 9/11 actually, while bush and rumsfeld do wish that we not find them as the treasonous prime perpetrators. Lies of injustice and slavery bush would make US believe we are without speaking of real power. Tyranting our caution, our beliefs, our creeds, into coercing the sacrifice of leaderless teen soldiers, our brothers, our sisters, to rob The People of our Constitutional values. Our freedoms as Justice in America, in Iraq, and at Guantanamo. Done in america’s name all for the doubly paid, pinko commi Halliburton, WorldCom, bremer, rumsfeld and Our Mr. bush Jr. Mr. bush, the demon who does all our talking without questioning for answers, who knows better than everybody else put together, the CIA and FBI included, doesn’t deserve your blind praise as a war criminal I would say in defense of anyone. Can we afford to leave more to fall "embarrassingly" dead by his criminal un-American exploits, as a demon God betrayer, human hater? What are you going to do about this Freedom of Yours shared with all here then friend? As of God or the Universe I mean? To not stand with Humanity against the injustices committed against ourselves at Guantanamo, is a failure to love anyone as being alive even. Those are US innocent People being criminally treated by evil sadistic nazi war criminaling bushite goons, savages who are protecting the 911 perpetrators from incarceration as traitors. Positioned to die as sacrificial, trading spots for the bush demon despot, because he frightens most men into willful submission and blind servitude unthinkingly. Not me however as whomever. Instead of murdering our own families as war criminals for bush to pilfer the undefended wallets of our grandparents, why don’t we all smarten up, and just kill the unarrested demon bush instead as something truly Patriotic? What’d ya say? I say, let’s just destroy evil bush instead for escaping arrest at 911, stay loaded if necessary for cheney, then demand a change

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                    One Giant Leap A  bushite  soldier, to be proud of committing senseless murder  for  the  American  cop  killer,  the Iraqi bank robber,   the  demon  bush  Jr.,  along  with  WorldCom, Dutch-Shell,  and  Halliburton,  is  not only a cowardly traitor  to  victimized  American  families,  but to all People  our  World  over.   Weak  as stupid and pathetic cowards,  who  instead  of bravely protecting America by killing the unarrested bush demon and rumsfeld for 9/11, side   instead  to  eat  DU  while  threatening  Justice everywhere  as  enemies  of  Humanity, freedom, and God. Where  are  true Patriot soldiers regarding tommy franks for  death  squadding children, or monster mass murderer buford  blount  killing thousands of innocent people for nothing  he  confesses freely as mad man?  Wimp ass nazi fuks,  fascist  commi vermin, uninformed as functionally dead anyway, are all proud bushite soldiers.

Short and Sweet "The inquiry heard last week that the words "may be able to", referring to the 45 minute claim, were dropped on the orders of Mr Campbell and replaced with "are able to"." Oh, and the 45 minute claim was actually referring to small caliber weaponry, not sexy WMD… Never mind for the moment about those other forgotten lines from the false plagiarized dossier, where "monitoring" foreign embassies, becomes "spying" on them and "aiding opposition groups.." becomes "supporting terrorist organizations…". Anyway, unmistakable repeating conduct that Blair told US he should resign over. Or be immediately arrested as war criminal. Simple. Why has Blair worked diligently to make this more complicated than it is? Makes our lives too easy that’s why. When you think about it, who is going to recall, or fire the antiChrist demon bush?, as the American cop killing, innocent people torturing, heroin pushing death squad advocate he is by not listening, (so he says) as the top 9/11 instigator with rumsfeld, propped as puppeteer false leader in America being traitor to God and Johnny? Who but you can read this? Americans are too stupid, weak, and cowardly as dying to be enslaved individuals, to stand up as a brave People for the FBI investigators. At least that is what CNN tells US in silence and contempt for themselves, and their own flag, while they watch their very own brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors be needlessly sacrificed for the demon bush to steal even more as left for further plunder, wasting away. Just like corporate America expresses no human sympathy for the THOUSANDS of innocent families bombed NEEDLESSLY to please and glorify bush and rumsfeld. Or American Patriots billed billions in criminal over payments for Halliburton, and a soldier’s grand dad’s pension lifters, WorldCom. (Too complicated, and besides, who cares right?) What do the bushites care about The People in Iraq, when they sacrifice the lives and wages of America so easily, for nothing but stolen gains by increasing our hardships as suffering? True terrorists. Just watch CNN… Refusing to allow America to know the evil demon bush and rumsfeld dumped thousands of tons of radio-active toxic waste to kill People for generations, as enemies of life, they are enemies of God as all of our Humanity. America’s Arron Brown would watch soldiers die for nothing but to steal more from American savings, and say nothing of it while driving to the club to shmooze as something special. CNN has directly refused to discuss the CIA investigations into the 9/11 insider stock trades, like America shouldn’t be interested in Justice, or the facts there either? See, all CNN and bush can do to spin the bodies falling in coffins, is to claim, they died for nobel causes, namely, to victimize and persecute innocent people as enemies of American values. Every time I hear of another soldier casualty, I pray as death it was a bushite. A treasonous coward, who instead of killing the unarrested bush and rumsfeld for 9/11, or voicing concern for murdering a good people needlessly, side as attackers of the pratically helpless, starving, and innocent without question or misgivings. Like buford blount. Demon bush and rumsfeld’s murder rampages against women and children, to steal American money to fake rebuilding what was needlessly destroyed criminally, should have him immediately arrested or shot, before ourselves for. An antiChrist, Demon bush quote: "Every nation that stands on the side of freedom and the value of human rights must condemn terrorism and act against the few who would destroy the hopes of the many." Does demon bush figure if he just says that, we’ll truly forget about all the people he has terrorized, and murdered in New York City? (Remember: evil is dumb.) Hmmm. I guess bush forgot to mention without following our facts, or protecting ourselves from tyranny by Justice for Yourself included in the equation eh? Don’t forget, Jim at MSNBC reported about the top secret Presidential Directive documents, they anonymously received from Condoleeza’s office, outlining the demon bush strategy in detail. To invade Afghanistan for floundering Enron, bush would blame Afghanistan for a crime no evidence would TRULY connect Laden to, and as a result, the God betrayers could then refuse to follow the criminal leads and not apprehend the actually evil doers. Christ, I hate that demon bush with a holy vengence I do. What do you think? Be a real Patriot, destroy bush today, and be loved by all as God would. The Lord, Johnny Wizard — Blair Denies Exaggerating Iraqi Arms Threat By Glenn Frankel Washington Post, August 28, 2003 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/08/270883.shtml ""It was an extraordinary allegation to make and an extremely serious one," said Blair, adding, "Had the allegation been true, it would have merited my resignation."" — The Pentagon PR Machine At Work http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8725 ""There have been some people who have kind of concocted a goulash of snippets about this team that was working on the terrorist interconnections and the Special Plans Office, and they mixed them up when there’s no basis for the mix," Feith said, according to a transcript of the press conference. "!!! — [Some wonder Wizard words found on the net.] Who will ultimately suffer for American cowardice to protect themselves as equals? Israel the terror nation funded by the American tax payer, murders and steals from innocent civilians, US people, as criminals. What can’t you figure nazi slave dying corporate sell outs to yourselves losing? [Here's an oldie but a goodie mind splat.] … It’s like we’re being forced against our dying wills, to be promoted as sold, bush’s fantastical shenanigans, outright guffaws, or blushing embarrassments of dying US as MASS MURDER victims. A liar who criminalizes America as really destructing by self contempt through his own private delusions of grander in God’s presence as the deceived evil antichrist. Apparently, here in america, we’re either with criminal bush as slaves working for Dutch-Shell and WorldCom, or he’ll bomb US whom believe in fighting to preserve freedom for all people. Freedom like standing firm politically on the evidence requirement for arriving to guilty verdicts as our public representation. We do want to follow the criminal leads for 9/11 actually, while bush and rumsfeld do wish that we not find them as the treasonous prime perpetrators. Lies of injustice and slavery bush would make US believe we are without speaking of real power. Tyranting our caution, our beliefs, our creeds, into coercing the sacrifice of leaderless teen soldiers, our brothers, our sisters, to rob The People of our Constitutional values. Our freedoms as Justice in America, in Iraq, and at Guantanamo. Done in america’s name all for the doubly paid, pinko commi Halliburton, WorldCom, bremer, rumsfeld and Our Mr. bush Jr. Mr. bush, the demon who does all our talking without questioning for answers, who knows better than everybody else put together, the CIA and FBI included, doesn’t deserve your blind praise as a war criminal I would say in defense of anyone. Can we afford to leave more to fall "embarrassingly" dead by his criminal un-American exploits, as a demon God betrayer, human hater? What are you going to do about this Freedom of Yours shared with all here then friend? As of God or the Universe I mean? To not stand with Humanity against the injustices committed against ourselves at Guantanamo, is a failure to love anyone as being alive even. Those are US innocent People being criminally treated by evil sadistic nazi war criminaling bushite goons, savages who are protecting the 911 perpetrators from incarceration as traitors. Positioned to die as sacrificial, trading spots for the bush demon despot, because he frightens most men into willful submission and blind servitude unthinkingly. Not me however as whomever. Instead of murdering our own families as war criminals for bush to pilfer the undefended wallets of our grandparents, why don’t we all smarten up, and just kill the unarrested demon bush instead as something truly Patriotic? What’d ya say? I say, let’s just destroy evil bush instead for escaping arrest at 911, stay loaded if necessary for cheney, then demand a change in altitude down at CNN headquarters for our benefits to be included in future broadcast material. Examples to start on: DU is radio-active (millirems) and toxic like in poisonous. Americans would want their stolen pension money back from Enron and WorldCom, thank you very much, and, we’d think you didn’t know this yet at CNN command but, Mr. bremer,… shockingly,…. is the Director of the notoriously un-American "Kissinger Associates". Mr. bremer, officially, professionally, takes money from Humanity … read more »

Response:

Question:

"Stef Duncan" <robandstef2…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:GeEe8.17220$ZC3.1401835@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > "Lurker" > > Not to Rob. ANYONE he dislikes is "a jew". > > Doesn’t matter whether it’s "true" or not. > > It’s a "conspiracy" after all. > Rob wrote: > <snip> > I guess that means I also need to stop liking Bruce Springstein, Bob Dylan, > The Band, the Beastie Boys, et al.?

 Rob,    Bruce Springsteen isn’t Jewish – he’s Catholic. If a person was going to correct all of your mistakes it would take too long. It’s people like you that prove humans are doomed to repeat the past. You are an evil little man Rob.   K.K.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hant…@netins.net wrote: > "Stef Duncan" <robandstef2…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:GeEe8.17220$ZC3.1401835@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > "Lurker" > > > Not to Rob. ANYONE he dislikes is "a jew". > > > Doesn’t matter whether it’s "true" or not. > > > It’s a "conspiracy" after all. > > Rob wrote: > > <snip> > > I guess that means I also need to stop liking Bruce Springstein, Bob > Dylan, > > The Band, the Beastie Boys, et al.? >  Rob, >    Bruce Springsteen isn’t Jewish – he’s Catholic. If a person was going to > correct all of your mistakes it would take too long. It’s people like you > that prove humans are doomed to repeat the past. You are an evil little man > Rob. >   K.K.

Rob’s never been one to let facts get in his way… Practically NONE of the people he claims are "jewish" really *are*. (At least THEY don’t seem to think so!) This is just his "But I *can’t* be a bigot, I have "jewish friends!" line of "reasoning"… Though, to use the word "reasoning" to describe what goes on between Rob’s ears really IS a misuse of the word.

Response:

"Lurker" > Don’t confuse Rob with *facts*… that’s not COVERED on the websites > where he gets his "news"…

LOL, the internet is probably the least reliable source of factual and honest information in the world.  I learned that very quickly when I was asked to provide a link to something I know to be an absolute truth.  Wackos from all sides abound in this regard.  There is no source on the internet that is fully reliable as far as I can tell.  I view them all as highly suspect.  Sylvia confirmed my suspisions when I just said "type it into a search engine",  hell, I did it myself and was bombarded with the most absurd lies, inventions, hallucinations, than I ever imagined could exist. The internet is a poor source of info unless you get the info from those you are investigating.  Than its rather hard to deny what they themselves have written… sometimes hundreds of years ago, presented by honest scholars who have been irritated by their lack of honest publicity for their works… that sometimes took decades. > That "Evil Jewish Controlled Press(tm)" is just *confusing* you with > a false sense of security!

Wow, you managed to leave out your conspiracy theory.  Are you feeling ok? ;^) (also, at some point you will begin to understand, the press isn’t controlled by "jews", the people who own our media are "claiming" to be jews for convenience sake only.  Big difference, and one that eliminates any possibility of a conspiracy)  They are abusing, manipulating, and destroying any chance for ethical growth within the jewish religion.  Most religions are stifled to some extent, but judaism has been smothered for nearly 4,000 years.  Unchanged, dormant, and near death.  Civil war within israel is a certainty everybit as much as I feared something like the WTC tragedy, and the torture of human beings occurring… has occurred.  Israel will die a death of its own making unless it smartens up… and damn soon.  Some are actually growing ethics when exposed to the truth.  Ethics are a hard thing to have while living in somebody else’s country illegally and immorally. And watching Christian mothers and children being killed… so a new apartment complex can go up. Rob

Response:

in article VcEe8.17210$ZC3.1404…@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net, Stef Duncan at robandstef2…@earthlink.net wrote on 2/25/02 11:31 PM: > They > assumed that simply because he was jewish and worked for a jewish owned > newspaper that he was a Massad agent.

again, utter bullshit. pearl has been in that region for three years and was well known. there was no mistake that he was an agent of anything but the press. the ringleader, now in custody and the us is trying to extradite him, is a brit turned muslim. he identifies his group as pakistani nationalist — not taliban or al queda. he has made no pretense of accusing danny pearl of being a cia agent. danny pearl’s kidnapping and death, the sheik has said, were planned out to embarrass the PAKISTANI president. no one said anything about embarrassing the US. then again, ive come to realize you never let a fact get in the way of a good rant. your bigotry is unbecoming rob. my long weekend is over and i return to work tomorrow. carry on.

Response:

in article kcEe8.17204$ZC3.1385…@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net, Stef Duncan at robandstef2…@earthlink.net wrote on 2/25/02 11:31 PM: > You know full well that you can not perform any service Lisa.  Not one. > Unless it suits your editors and your advertisors interests.  Thats no > service Lisa, thats a job that you "want" to do.

all i know is that i have never once been stopped from writing anything ive dug up. that is the tradition at the paper i work. one of our reporters won a pulitzer for exposing iran-contra, not a popular story line in that day. a big bunch of our reporters won a pulitzer for exposing a fraudulent miami election, angering the powerful cuban community in miami. a stolen election. an expose that resulted in people going to jail. after hurricane andrew, one of our columnists wrote a piece saying all the houses blew down because one of our biggest advertisors built shitty housing. they threatened to pull 20,000 week in ads if the editor didnt kill the column. pull them, the publisher said. the column ran. they pulled the ads, but eventually they came back. they always do. did you know rob, that during times of intense national interest in newspapers and tv news networks and publishing companies actually LOSE money. selling more papers means more newsprint, a costly commodity. big stories mean oodles of staff overtime or comptime and travel expenses. did you notice that after 9-11 the networks ran nonstop around the clock news WITHOUT advertising. lots of revenue lost. show me some proof a brazillian-based israeli sex for hire ring and i’ll do the story rob. has anyone mentioned to you, by the way, that your grip on reality seems increasingly tenuous. either that or you’ve been a member of a white supremist group all along and we never noticed before.

Response:

"Stef Duncan" <robandstef2…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:kcEe8.17204$ZC3.1385671@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "lisalisaa > > there are those who still believe a free press is > > essential to preserving democracy and freedom. > I am its greatest believer Lisa.  Thats why I mourn the death of a man so > trusting in the goodness of fellow man, as well as in his own honour.  I > doubt it ever seriously occured to him that "he" would have been viewed as > suspect.  At least to the degree where he would have been killed.  A mans > honour only stretches as far as he broadcasts it.  I can think of no man who > trusted in the goodness of others as much as he.  A "free" press is > essential to preserving democracy and freedom.  But we dont have a "free > press".  We have a "media" that is owned and controlled by a select few who > have removed "free press" from all but themselves.  Only the incredibly > wealthy can afford to purchase this so-called "free press".  You dont have > the right to it, I dont have the right to it, nobody here has the right to > "freedom of the press".  Your wealth must stretch into the hundreds of > millions in order to be able to "purchase" "Freedom of the Press".  As its > so aptly mis-named these days. > > a man with a mind like this reporter had could be making a million a year > in > > corporate america. if he was making 150,000 he was one of the extremely > > lucky ones. and he was at one of the biggest papers in the country. > > reporters do perform a service in the same way that teachers and even > > firefighters and wildlife officers do. > Heavens no Lisa.  The previous occupations protect and serve us. Journalism > simply sells magazines and books.  A "service" would have been a documentary > on FSTV on why we should stay or leave Afganistan.  A "service" would have > been to expose the corporate transnational corporations that control our > view of reality.  (as Collin Powell put it)  A "service" would have been to > expose the daily influx of sex-slaves into Israel.  Those would have been > services.  He was doing what he "wanted".  But regardless, its no less a > tragedy.  Its an abomination to put your trust in someone so fully, and then > to be knifed in the back like that.  Unthinkable, and all the more reason we > need to blow these pukes into oblivian.  A man with a mind like his could > have easily written dozens of best selling expos’es worth millions if he had > chosen to perform such a service.  But he did what he "wanted" not what > would have made him rich.  As you said. > You know full well that you can not perform any service Lisa.  Not one. > Unless it suits your editors and your advertisors interests.  Thats no > service Lisa, thats a job that you "want" to do.  But certainly not a > service.  The day you are allowed to publish an article on the true inner > workings of the sex-trade in Israel will be probably the first time you will > have ever performed a service… and the last day you and your editor have > jobs.  As was the case of the journalists who exposed the > child-sex-snuff-porn-ring in Italy.  Some service eh?  More outrage over > exposing the truth, than in the live rape and murders of little boys and > girls as young as two years old.  Ya, Lisa, lets see how long you keep your > job the minute you perform a service actualy worth reading, rather than a > service that benefits your newspaper and its advertisers financial > interests.  They dont even want ratings Lisa.  If they did your stories > would be on the front page… the reality is that your stories will never > ever once in a thousand years make it one millimeter past your editors > desk… and you know it.  Its fact and you know it. > Just write up an article about Israels child-sex-slave-ring, ran out of > Brazil, from the "ISRAELI" embassy… see how far that makes it past your > editors desk.  You service the money-gods Lisa, not your fellow man.  Dont > kid yourself.  If you want to perform a service investigate and write an > article exposing just who it was that made the money off of Enron… and > exactly, name by name, every politician who benefited finacialy from them in > thier campaigns and the amounts.  That wont see the light of day in a single > newspaper in the US either.  Rather odd that such a simple thing will never > make it to the newspapers isnt it?  But it wont, and you know why.  If it > has, I would love to find out who garnered up the courage to publish such a > thing because I havent run acrossed it anywhere.  Not even on the net. (but > that doesnt mean much) > >  they all work cheap to protect > > something they believe in. with reporters it is the truth, the first > > amendment and YOUR right to know. > LOL, ok "I" want to know what happened too the Israeli Embasedors that were > running the child-sex-slave business out of their embassy in Brazil. > Come-on Lisa, protect us and our "rights to know".  The one and only things > you will ever be allowed to publish is what suits the financial interests of > our owners.  You wont be allowed within a hairs breadth of publishing the > truth, even when it means big ratings.  Because they could care less… >  without a free  press there is no freedom. > > especially now, we all need to know… > I couldn’t agree more. > Rob

————————————————————————— – —- Posted: February 25, 2002 1:00 a.m. Eastern

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bush’s Enron Ties Edward B. Winslow, AlterNet January 2, 2002 Almost 30 years have elapsed since the "third rate burglary" of the Democratic National Committee headquarters on June 17, 1972 that opened the dam of the Watergate scandal. The press and members of Congress largely ignored the crime, as then President Richard M. Nixon kept the nation’s focus on the war in Vietnam. Similarly, with the press and Congress distracted by President George W. Bush’s war in Afghanistan, they are ignoring another scandal. No third rate burglary, the Enron Corp. scandal involves millions of dollars in campaign contributions to Bush, U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm and other members of Congress. The cozy relationship between the Bush White House and Enron enabled Kenneth L. Lay, then Enron’s CEO, to meet in secret with Vice President Richard Cheney to help mold the nation’s energy policy. Bush’s presidential campaign received $1.14 million from Enron. Shortly after taking office, President Bush waged a battle against the imposition of federal price controls in California that allowed Enron to price-gouge consumers by extending the energy crisis in California, costing the state billions of dollars. Enron reported increased revenues of almost $70 billion from the previous year. Bush also resisted attempts to crack down on Enron’s utilization of its 2,830 offshore subsidiaries in countries with lax banking-regulation laws. The consumer-rights watchdog organization Public Citizen alleges that some of these offshore havens helped Enron defraud its stockholders. Moreover, while Sen. Gramm was working the Congress to pass legislation favorable to Enron (and collecting nearly $260,000 in campaign contributions from the company), his wife Wendy Gramm first was chairperson of a regulatory committee overseeing Enron’s business activities and later a paid member of that company’s board of directors. Enron paid her between $915,000 and $1.85 million, according Public Citizen. Sen. Gramm has announced his decision not to seek reelection for another term in the senate. Enron, whose stock price plummeted from almost $85 per share to $0.25 per share within one year, forced its employees to invest their retirement plans in the company stock while corporate executives were free to make out like bandits by selling their stock when it was near its peak before anyone caught wind of the company’s impending collapse. Jeffrey K. Skilling, who resigned his position as Enron’s chief executive in August, sold more than $30 million worth of his stock in the company this year. Lay, who was Skilling’s predecessor, was able to unload about $23 million worth of his Enron stock. Meanwhile, employees, who invested in Enron stock through their company’s 401(k) plan, were prohibited in diversifying into other securities. They lost their shirts while 500 of the company’s top executives divided up $55 million worth of bonuses. The remaining 20,000 employees were given severance packages of not more than $4,500 each. Eventually, during the Watergate scandal, members of Congress began to take a closer look at what first appeared to be an event that was unrelated to the White House. Armed with much more evidence of a White House conflict of interest than Watergate, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.) has opened a Congressional investigation on the Enron matter. In a letter dated Dec. 4, 2001 to Vice President Cheney, Waxman expresses concern about the administration’s secret meetings with Lay and the company’s subsequent failure. Waxman also mentions "the fact that senior Enron executives were enriching themselves at the same time that Enron was lavishing large campaign contributions on President Bush and the Republican Party and apparently influencing the administration’s energy policies." Public Citizen urged Congress to bring Sen. Gramm and Wendy Gramm along with Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neill to give sworn testimony about what they know about possible accounting fraud and the use of offshore tax and bank regulation havens. The consumer-rights organization also called for President Bush, Vice President Cheney and political adviser Karl Rove to answer questions about whether discussions involving energy price controls, energy regulations or tax havens took place with Enron executives. Specifically, what investigators need to determine is who knew what and when did they know it? As Waxman wrote in his letter to the vice president, "It is appropriate to ask whether Enron communicated to (Cheney) or others affiliated with (his) task force information about its precarious financial position. This is especially important since this information was apparently hidden from investors and the public…."

This might be more fun that Whitewater–an investigation where millions were spent to find out in the end that Monica Lewinski performed oral sex sloppily. Why has a special prosecutor not been appointed? Congress would have drooled at such interlocks in a scandal involving the Clintons Brightest Blessings; Caillean `aSiobhan, Lady Carrigaholt

Response:

Off topic crap. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bush’s Enron Ties Edward B. Winslow, AlterNet January 2, 2002 Almost 30 years have elapsed since the "third rate burglary" of the Democratic National Committee headquarters on June 17, 1972 that opened the dam of the Watergate scandal. The press and members of Congress largely ignored the crime, as then President Richard M. Nixon kept the nation’s focus on the war in Vietnam. Similarly, with the press and Congress distracted by President George W. Bush’s war in Afghanistan, they are ignoring another scandal. No third rate burglary, the Enron Corp. scandal involves millions of dollars in campaign contributions to Bush, U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm and other members of Congress. The cozy relationship between the Bush White House and Enron enabled Kenneth L. Lay, then Enron’s CEO, to meet in secret with Vice President Richard Cheney to help mold the nation’s energy policy. Bush’s presidential campaign received $1.14 million from Enron. Shortly after taking office, President Bush waged a battle against the imposition of federal price controls in California that allowed Enron to price-gouge consumers by extending the energy crisis in California, costing the state billions of dollars. Enron reported increased revenues of almost $70 billion from the previous year. Bush also resisted attempts to crack down on Enron’s utilization of its 2,830 offshore subsidiaries in countries with lax banking-regulation laws. The consumer-rights watchdog organization Public Citizen alleges that some of these offshore havens helped Enron defraud its stockholders. Moreover, while Sen. Gramm was working the Congress to pass legislation favorable to Enron (and collecting nearly $260,000 in campaign contributions from the company), his wife Wendy Gramm first was chairperson of a regulatory committee overseeing Enron’s business activities and later a paid member of that company’s board of directors. Enron paid her between $915,000 and $1.85 million, according Public Citizen. Sen. Gramm has announced his decision not to seek reelection for another term in the senate. Enron, whose stock price plummeted from almost $85 per share to $0.25 per share within one year, forced its employees to invest their retirement plans in the company stock while corporate executives were free to make out like bandits by selling their stock when it was near its peak before anyone caught wind of the company’s impending collapse. Jeffrey K. Skilling, who resigned his position as Enron’s chief executive in August, sold more than $30 million worth of his stock in the company this year. Lay, who was Skilling’s predecessor, was able to unload about $23 million worth of his Enron stock. Meanwhile, employees, who invested in Enron stock through their company’s 401(k) plan, were prohibited in diversifying into other securities. They lost their shirts while 500 of the company’s top executives divided up $55 million worth of bonuses. The remaining 20,000 employees were given severance packages of not more than $4,500 each. Eventually, during the Watergate scandal, members of Congress began to take a closer look at what first appeared to be an event that was unrelated to the White House. Armed with much more evidence of a White House conflict of interest than Watergate, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.) has opened a Congressional investigation on the Enron matter. In a letter dated Dec. 4, 2001 to Vice President Cheney, Waxman expresses concern about the administration’s secret meetings with Lay and the company’s subsequent failure.   Waxman also mentions "the fact that senior Enron executives were enriching themselves at the same time that Enron was lavishing large campaign contributions on President Bush and the Republican Party and apparently influencing the administration’s energy policies." Public Citizen urged Congress to bring Sen. Gramm and Wendy Gramm along with Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neill to give sworn testimony about what they know about possible accounting fraud and the use of offshore tax and bank regulation havens. The consumer-rights organization also called for President Bush, Vice President Cheney and political adviser Karl Rove to answer questions about whether discussions involving energy price controls, energy regulations or tax havens took place with Enron executives. Specifically, what investigators need to determine is who knew what and when did they know it? As Waxman wrote in his letter to the vice president, "It is appropriate to ask whether Enron communicated to (Cheney) or others affiliated with (his) task force information about its precarious financial position. This is especially important since this information was apparently hidden from investors and the public…."

Response:

Bush’s Enron Ties Edward B. Winslow, AlterNet January 2, 2002 Almost 30 years have elapsed since the "third rate burglary" of the Democratic National Committee headquarters on June 17, 1972 that opened the dam of the Watergate scandal. The press and members of Congress largely ignored the crime, as then President Richard M. Nixon kept the nation’s focus on the war in Vietnam. Similarly, with the press and Congress distracted by President George W. Bush’s war in Afghanistan, they are ignoring another scandal. No third rate burglary, the Enron Corp. scandal involves millions of dollars in campaign contributions to Bush, U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm and other members of Congress. The cozy relationship between the Bush White House and Enron enabled Kenneth L. Lay, then Enron’s CEO, to meet in secret with Vice President Richard Cheney to help mold the nation’s energy policy. Bush’s presidential campaign received $1.14 million from Enron. Shortly after taking office, President Bush waged a battle against the imposition of federal price controls in California that allowed Enron to price-gouge consumers by extending the energy crisis in California, costing the state billions of dollars. Enron reported increased revenues of almost $70 billion from the previous year. Bush also resisted attempts to crack down on Enron’s utilization of its 2,830 offshore subsidiaries in countries with lax banking-regulation laws. The consumer-rights watchdog organization Public Citizen alleges that some of these offshore havens helped Enron defraud its stockholders. Moreover, while Sen. Gramm was working the Congress to pass legislation favorable to Enron (and collecting nearly $260,000 in campaign contributions from the company), his wife Wendy Gramm first was chairperson of a regulatory committee overseeing Enron’s business activities and later a paid member of that company’s board of directors. Enron paid her between $915,000 and $1.85 million, according Public Citizen. Sen. Gramm has announced his decision not to seek reelection for another term in the senate. Enron, whose stock price plummeted from almost $85 per share to $0.25 per share within one year, forced its employees to invest their retirement plans in the company stock while corporate executives were free to make out like bandits by selling their stock when it was near its peak before anyone caught wind of the company’s impending collapse. Jeffrey K. Skilling, who resigned his position as Enron’s chief executive in August, sold more than $30 million worth of his stock in the company this year. Lay, who was Skilling’s predecessor, was able to unload about $23 million worth of his Enron stock. Meanwhile, employees, who invested in Enron stock through their company’s 401(k) plan, were prohibited in diversifying into other securities. They lost their shirts while 500 of the company’s top executives divided up $55 million worth of bonuses. The remaining 20,000 employees were given severance packages of not more than $4,500 each. Eventually, during the Watergate scandal, members of Congress began to take a closer look at what first appeared to be an event that was unrelated to the White House. Armed with much more evidence of a White House conflict of interest than Watergate, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.) has opened a Congressional investigation on the Enron matter. In a letter dated Dec. 4, 2001 to Vice President Cheney, Waxman expresses concern about the administration’s secret meetings with Lay and the company’s subsequent failure.   Waxman also mentions "the fact that senior Enron executives were enriching themselves at the same time that Enron was lavishing large campaign contributions on President Bush and the Republican Party and apparently influencing the administration’s energy policies." Public Citizen urged Congress to bring Sen. Gramm and Wendy Gramm along with Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neill to give sworn testimony about what they know about possible accounting fraud and the use of offshore tax and bank regulation havens. The consumer-rights organization also called for President Bush, Vice President Cheney and political adviser Karl Rove to answer questions about whether discussions involving energy price controls, energy regulations or tax havens took place with Enron executives. Specifically, what investigators need to determine is who knew what and when did they know it? As Waxman wrote in his letter to the vice president, "It is appropriate to ask whether Enron communicated to (Cheney) or others affiliated with (his) task force information about its precarious financial position. This is especially important since this information was apparently hidden from investors and the public…."

Response:

Question:

[as a fly repellant suggestion] Try "skin-so-soft," an Avon product. I travelled in Sub-Saharan Africa and in the Far East with people who used this stuff and swore by it. This ’skin-so-soft’ was discredited in Consumer Report and Popular Science several years ago so take the African and Eastern swearing with grains of salt.

Jen: Dunno about the magazines, but the people I travelled with, as I said, swore by it. Deet (in many brand forms) is effective against mosquitoes.  

Although it will degrade the integrity of any plastic or rubber it comes in contact with. — Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com

Response:

        This is sort of changing the subject a bit but I don’t want to start a whole new thread over this:  Has anyone else had the pleasure of inhaling a fly of some kind?  I have had this happen several times during the last couple of months. Once was on my bike and I almost choked. (‘Twas a big buzzing thing with flapping wings, etc.) For the life of me, I cannot get  them out of my windpipe without eventually swallowing the critter. Any ideas as to how to remove it before it becomes food?         Ken K. Chairman, Department of Redundancy Department

Response:

[specific of fly inhalation snipped] For the life of me, I cannot get  them out of my windpipe without eventually swallowing the critter. Any ideas as to how to remove it before it becomes food?

Swallow a spider. I knew an old woman who swallowed a fly, I don’t know why she swallowed a fly, perhaps she’ll die. Jennifer — ask me I’ll tell you about the spider

Response:

unmitigated audacity to write: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [specific of fly inhalation snipped] For the life of me, I cannot get  them out of my windpipe without eventually swallowing the critter. Any ideas as to how to remove it before it becomes food? Swallow a spider. I knew an old woman who swallowed a fly, I don’t know why she swallowed a fly, perhaps she’ll die. Jennifer — ask me I’ll tell you about the spider

        You made me snort my coffee out my nostrils and all over my desk with that one.         Ken K. Chairman, Department of Redundancy Department

Response:

Richter)had the unmitigated audacity to write:        Well it works for me. So what should I do, not use it?  It seems that I am not the only one it works on judging from the posts here. <snipped So what is going on here?  There are several possibilities.  One that you mention is that there could be a weird interaction with your skin. Possible, but it seems unlikely– if were the case, Avon would be all over that, by bundling your type of skin oil with SSS to make an undeniably working bug repellant for everyone.  Another is that, as someone mentioned, SSS is now shipped with a citrinella repellant.  So, you could have gotten the effects of that.

        No, it happened in either 1983 or 1984 the first time. The SSS I borrowed was not repellant designed, it was made for keeping skin soft.  It was one of those scouting tips that are passed around from Scoutmaster to Scoutmaster. I saw it working on a boy scout, borrowed it and it kept me from being bitten by the black flies. There is another possibility.  Your personal experience might not have been scientific.  The fact that the temperature, humidity, light, etc. were very likely varying from the pre-SSS and post-SSS experience means that you can’t compare your bug interactions on an on-par basis.  Also, did you actually count bug bites with and without using SSS?  Is there any quantitative evidence at all?  Probably not.  (You could have tested SSS by using it on one arm only, and counting the bug bite differential at the end of the evening, but who would want to that?)  So, we are left with your personal feeling that it worked for you.  There is nothing wrong with that– the placebo effect can go a long way towards making one comfortable.  But it is no substitute for a proper scientific accounting of whether SSS really repels bugs.

        All I said was that it worked for me and some of the others here on this n.g. No, I didn’t count bug bites on each arm nor conduct laboratory experiments out there in the woods, I just was being eaten alive and saw that the kid was not bothered by the black flies. I used it and didn’t get bitten anymore. Period. I can’t explain it nor do I want to. I am not a scientist, I am a cop. I just barely have a firm grip on police officer.         Ken K. Chairman, Department of Redundancy Department

Response:

I have a tube of bug repellent that my Dr. suggested I try, it’s called Ultrathon and it does contain deet, but according to him the deet is attached to large polymer molecules that slow down the absorbtion of deet into your skin.  Who knows.  In any case, I got it from the pharmacist (it’s not perscription, but it’s behind the counter), and it works really well.  And so far, I don’t glow in the dark.   –Rachel — R. R. Bishop Department of Materials Science and Engineering Northwestern University Proud fan of the Chicago Fire, 1998 US and MLS Cup Champions!

Response:

   Well it works for me. So what should I do, not use it?  It seems that I am not the only one it works on judging from the posts here.

What do you mean when you say "it works for me?"  Perhaps you mean that the bugs were bothering you, then you put on SSS, and then the bugs stopped bothering you as much.  Or perhaps you were bothered by bugs one night and the next night you used SSS and didn’t have a bug problem. Either of these would lead a reasonable person to a conclusion that "it works for me." The contradicting evidence, though, is substantial.  In quantitative scientific tests by Consumer Reports, SSS does not repel bugs at all. So what is going on here?  There are several possibilities.  One that you mention is that there could be a weird interaction with your skin. Possible, but it seems unlikely– if were the case, Avon would be all over that, by bundling your type of skin oil with SSS to make an undeniably working bug repellant for everyone.  Another is that, as someone mentioned, SSS is now shipped with a citrinella repellant.  So, you could have gotten the effects of that. There is another possibility.  Your personal experience might not have been scientific.  The fact that the temperature, humidity, light, etc. were very likely varying from the pre-SSS and post-SSS experience means that you can’t compare your bug interactions on an on-par basis.  Also, did you actually count bug bites with and without using SSS?  Is there any quantitative evidence at all?  Probably not.  (You could have tested SSS by using it on one arm only, and counting the bug bite differential at the end of the evening, but who would want to that?)  So, we are left with your personal feeling that it worked for you.  There is nothing wrong with that– the placebo effect can go a long way towards making one comfortable.  But it is no substitute for a proper scientific accounting of whether SSS really repels bugs. -Steffi

Response:

Down here in southern Maryland (state bird- deer fly, state flower- satellite dish) I have to use DEET when I’m running on my favorite trails through the woods.   I read the label and buy the least concentrated form of DEET that I can find.  For me, a 3-6% solution of DEET works as well as the higher concentrations. My hope is that I’ll be less likely to develop a chemical sensitivity to the weaker solution. Incidentally, last night on television (Dateline) I caught the tale end of a story inre mosquito repellent.  Seems mosquitoes are attracted to lactate producing bodies.  Gotta be a moral there somewhere. -regards, Terry Waggoner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone make any recs for an insect repellant that really works on biting flies *and* doesn’t contain DEET?  I have tried several citronella-based products but the flies don’t even hesitate. Thanks, Katrina

Response:

unmitigated audacity to write: Well here is another supporter of Skin-So-Soft.  I was an Assistant Scoutmaster with a troop we took up to the Adirondacs in NY State one summer and we were getting eaten alive by the famous black flies. I borrowed a kid’s Skin-So-Soft his mom had given him and found it to work perfectly. If works perfectly means your Skin was So Soft afterwards, then it worked.

        Yes, it did feel nice.  But at least the little bastards left me alone afterward.  No, not the kids, the flies.  But I’ve snipped and pasted a Post from alt.folklore.urban which was originally and appropriately entitled Head-So-Soft: [begin quote]

-long quote snipped- [end quote] Jennifer

        Well it works for me. So what should I do, not use it?  It seems that I am not the only one it works on judging from the posts here. Could it be the chemical makeup of my skin working with the SSS?         Ken K. Chairman, Department of Redundancy Department

Response:

A company here in Ottawa, Lee Valley Tools, sells Deer Fly Patches which I am told are effective. It is a sticky patch you apply on the back of your hat/cap. The deer fly circles, finds a nice place to land, and… can’t get away. No more flying around your head. Disposal is up to you. Personally I use DEET if the bugs are really bad on the theory that the few hours exposure I get for the year can’t be any worse than the exposure to exhaust, sun, pesticides and cable t.v. I am already receiving. Doesn’t seem to stop the Mule Flies though. Richard (down 21 pounds and counting) Stoparczyk.

Response:

We have a singular pest out here, a big fly/wasp that just likes to circle your head repeatedly while you try to outrun it. DEET or no DEET, it can drive you nuts just circling inches away from your nose and ears and making touch-and-go landings in your hair.

Same here. Every time I pass a certain spot on my normal loop, out comes the resident deer fly. I come back from a run with bruises on my head from hitting myself.    -Phil

Response:

SSS works !!!

Response:

unmitigated audacity to write: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [as a fly repellant suggestion] Try "skin-so-soft," an Avon product. I travelled in Sub-Saharan Africa and in the Far East with people who used this stuff and swore by it. This ’skin-so-soft’ was discredited in Consumer Report and Popular Science several years ago so take the African and Eastern swearing with grains of salt. Deet (in many brand forms) is effective against mosquitoes.  Deer flies and Horse flies?  I’ve never seen anything short of physical deterence (i.e. a loose fitting cotton shirt,  cap, and a good swat). Jennifer

        Well here is another supporter of Skin-So-Soft.  I was an Assistant Scoutmaster with a troop we took up to the Adirondacs in NY State one summer and we were getting eaten alive by the famous black flies. I borrowed a kid’s Skin-So-Soft his mom had given him and found it to work perfectly.  And it smelled a lot better than the 100% Deet I had been trying to use.         Ken K. Chairman, Department of Redundancy Department

Response:

Well here is another supporter of Skin-So-Soft.  I was an Assistant Scoutmaster with a troop we took up to the Adirondacs in NY State one summer and we were getting eaten alive by the famous black flies. I borrowed a kid’s Skin-So-Soft his mom had given him and found it to work perfectly.

If works perfectly means your Skin was So Soft afterwards, then it worked.  But I’ve snipped and pasted a Post from alt.folklore.urban which was originally and appropriately entitled Head-So-Soft: [begin quote] Some questions have arisen concerning the efficacy of the Avon cosmetic "Skin So Soft" in repelling insects. I pointed out that a Consumer Reports test in July 1993 concluded it was essentially useless for this. People are asking "how then can it be advertised for this?" A good question! Indeed, a question so good, that I decided to pose it myself to the Avon consumer products hotline, at 1-800 367-2866. I spoke to agent "Buffy", and she gave me this information: Skin So Soft is not one product, but a family of moisturizers Avon gets a lot of enquiries from the clueless, about using SSS lotions as bug repellents Avon finally got a clue, and formulated a new SSS product within the last two months. This contains sunscreen, and… Insect repellent! Yay! It has been tested and approved by the FDA as a bug repellent and so can be advertised as such. However, the new SSS lotion uses oil of citronella as the active ingredient, rather than, as Buffy quaintly put it "chemicals". So I assume that, like the earlier formulation, it will be essentially uneffective against insects. It is only the repellents containing DEET (a known carcinogen) that appears efficacious. If Consumer Reports were to repeat their experiment with the new formula, I predict that they would get similar results. Note, to tie in with the other thread about how science is done, if they repeated the experiment and it showed that SSS *was* effective, then I would change my view. But it is emphatically *not* science, for me to say "let’s settle the matter by going looking for things that show SSS is not effective." I think this clears a few things up, like the breakfast dishes and that strange rash on your hindquarters, and good luck to Avon for listening to what their customers asked for! [end quote] Jennifer

Response:

We have a singular pest out here, a big fly/wasp that just likes to circle your head repeatedly while you try to outrun it. DEET or no DEET, it can drive you nuts just circling inches away from your nose and ears and making touch-and-go landings in your hair. It must be trying to tie your neck in knots so you’ll strangle yourself and then it can lay its eggs in what’s left of you on a hot afternoon. There seems to be some kind of air traffic control at work. As soon as you get rid of one, another one (but only one at a time) appears. I’m sure I’ll look funny waving that squash racket around my face next time out….

Response:

It is a sticky patch you apply on the back of your hat/cap. The deer fly circles, finds a nice place to land, and… can’t get away. No more flying around your head. Phil,   Maybe this will help or possibly make things worse.?  Depending on the air traffic and holidays of course.  Could be a busy  landing pad.  Let us know how it works.    "Indyjogger"       Laurie

Response:

I tried deet with the deer flies on my trail and found it of very limited value. Maybe I sweat it off, but the flies kept landing on my head after repeated applications. Admittedly this is with the weaker stuff, not the melt-plastic-90% stuff, but I’m unwilling to use that. I have found that for the type of flies we have here that just having something on my head makes the experience bearable. As an aside, I sometimes wonder about myself- I have a paved bike path that is basically fly-free and then a state park trail which seems to be the New York City of deer flies and for some reason I’ve been loving the woodsy, prairie trail runs despite the flies. Please let us know if you come up with a good solution Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I must have very stubborn flies here in Virginia, because Skin-so-Soft is one of the aforementioned citronella products that had absolutely no effect on them.  Does anyone know if you can still absorb DEET if you only spray in on clothing?  That may be my only option. Katrina I do 90% of my running on a wooded trail. Carry a small plastic bottle of SSS with me. When the Deer Fly squadrons begin to rendezvous, I apply hastily and liberally! It has never failed me.   Denny Anderson

– For e-mail replies, change "talkingxyzzy" to "talking"

Response:

I travelled around Colorado’s backcountry with people who used this stuff and saw them driven out of their minds by the deer flies!  If you try Skin So Soft take along some DEET as a reserve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone make any recs for an insect repellant that really works on biting flies *and* doesn’t contain DEET?  I have tried several citronella-based products but the flies don’t even hesitate. Try "skin-so-soft," an Avon product. I travelled in Sub-Saharan Africa and in the Far East with people who used this stuff and swore by it. — Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com

Response:

Well, I must have very stubborn flies here in Virginia, because Skin-so-Soft is one of the aforementioned citronella products that had absolutely no effect on them.  Does anyone know if you can still absorb DEET if you only spray in on clothing?  That may be my only option. Katrina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do 90% of my running on a wooded trail. Carry a small plastic bottle of SSS with me. When the Deer Fly squadrons begin to rendezvous, I apply hastily and liberally! It has never failed me.   Denny Anderson

Response:

Can anyone make any recs for an insect repellant that really works on biting flies *and* doesn’t contain DEET?  I have tried several citronella-based products but the flies don’t even hesitate. Thanks, Katrina

Response:

Can anyone make any recs for an insect repellant that really works on biting flies *and* doesn’t contain DEET?  I have tried several citronella-based products but the flies don’t even hesitate.

Try "skin-so-soft," an Avon product. I travelled in Sub-Saharan Africa and in the Far East with people who used this stuff and swore by it. — Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com

Response:

[as a fly repellant suggestion] Try "skin-so-soft," an Avon product. I travelled in Sub-Saharan Africa and in the Far East with people who used

this stuff and swore by it. This ’skin-so-soft’ was discredited in Consumer Report and Popular Science several years ago so take the African and Eastern swearing with grains of salt. Deet (in many brand forms) is effective against mosquitoes.  Deer flies and Horse flies?  I’ve never seen anything short of physical deterence (i.e. a loose fitting cotton shirt,  cap, and a good swat). Jennifer

Response:

Can anyone make any recs for an insect repellant that really works on biting flies *and* doesn’t contain DEET?  I have tried several citronella-based products but the flies don’t even hesitate. Try "skin-so-soft," an Avon product. I travelled in Sub-Saharan Africa and in the Far East with people who used this stuff and swore by it.

I will second that. I do 90% of my running on a wooded trail. Carry a small plastic bottle of SSS with me. When the Deer Fly squadrons begin to rendezvous, I apply hastily and liberally! It has never failed me.   Denny Anderson To ERR is human… to ZIN, divine!   Kill the "fandel" to reply

Response:

Question:

I guess I really ought to keep my 11 year old son from reading this NG. I know that we all like to express ourselves with free speech Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -PS: Happy Mothers Day Suncom! I’ll give all your whore mothers an extra quarter when they’re finished sucking my dogs dick.

Response:

  Have your 11 year old read a book instead. We are not here to babysit your brat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I really ought to keep my 11 year old son from reading this NG. I know that we all like to express ourselves with free speech Mark

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric, Please read my original post, "Open appeal…". I think my tone was very civil there. I realize that one "gets more flys with honey than with shit," and I also realize that many of the support/customer service people with whom I correspond are not themselves responsible for my troubles, and deserve to be addressed politely. But after a point, after being totally ignored by this company for three months, I have to hold them all responsible. Suncom sucks. They can ALL kiss my ass. Suncom sucks. Never another penny of my money. W Spilman PS: Happy Mothers Day Suncom! I’ll give all your whore mothers an extra quarter when they’re finished sucking my dogs dick. "Dont know what you may have had as a problem but if you talked to them the way yr quoted above…then perhaps you got a different level of service than I did… Eric"

Im sure you were reasonable.  I know you are frustrated. I would be too.  It does surprise me though.  Did you call them?   I would Good luck. EJJ

Response:

Righteous indignation loses its justification when it turns into blatant abuse! (I cant believe I just type’d that line…..must be the hours of playing sims killing the braincells!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric, Please read my original post, "Open appeal…". I think my tone was very civil there. I realize that one "gets more flys with honey than with shit," and I also realize that many of the support/customer service people with whom I correspond are not themselves responsible for my troubles, and deserve to be addressed politely. But after a point, after being totally ignored by this company for three months, I have to hold them all responsible. Suncom sucks. They can ALL kiss my ass. Suncom sucks. Never another penny of my money. W Spilman PS: Happy Mothers Day Suncom! I’ll give all your whore mothers an extra quarter when they’re finished sucking my dogs dick. "Dont know what you may have had as a problem but if you talked to them the way yr quoted above…then perhaps you got a different level of service than I did… Eric"

Response:

*PLONK* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Have your 11 year old read a book instead. We are not here to babysit your brat. I guess I really ought to keep my 11 year old son from reading this NG. I know that we all like to express ourselves with free speech Mark

Response:

I am not against seeing or hearing the odd expletive when used in the proper context I.E. Expressing anger or frustration.. Hell I use them myself from time to time and have even used the odd choice word myself in this NG. What does get my back up is seeing a graphical pornagraphic word picture of the nature displayed in this thread. My son and I derive a lot of pleasure from racing sims, flight sims and all manner of other activities on the net. As a father, I try to involve him with as many pursuits as possible to give him experience of life and broaden his horizons. He IS NOT A BRAT because he has had to learn certain values (those that seem to be sadly lacking in some people on this NG). I conduct myself on the net the same way that I do in real life. I use appropriate language in appropriate company. If certain people cannot do this it is just an indication of their inability to articulate themselves in other ways. Why the hell should other people suffer for these tossers? eah…..on the odd occasion a kid might hear me swear when I hit my thumb with a hammer but they would never hear me indulge in a pre meditated dialogue involving graphical obscene content. Once again it would appear that I have had the misfortune to encounter a genuine fully grown ADULT BRAT who thinks fit to make personal attacks without standing back for a second and thinking about what he is saying. I am not asking anyone to babysit for me, simply appealing for a bit of common decency in a NG that after all is all about playing games (call them sims if you will). What reading matter would you suggest for the boy if he can’t read a NG about playing games with racing cars? The standard textbook of Cosmology or perhaps business accounting? Either way, he will not be reading any more shit from you or your kind at least for the next couple of years. Hope you are proud of yourself Mr xanthar or whatever your name is. Mark Seery…….Not afraid to use my real name. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Have your 11 year old read a book instead. We are not here to babysit your brat. I guess I really ought to keep my 11 year old son from reading this NG. I know that we all like to express ourselves with free speech Mark

Response:

*PLONK* Eat shit and die, Mark. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *PLONK*  Have your 11 year old read a book instead. We are not here to babysit your brat. I guess I really ought to keep my 11 year old son from reading this NG. I know that we all like to express ourselves with free speech Mark

Response:

*PLONK* Eat shit and die, Mark.

Interesting to see a genuine IQ bypass working!  Christopher Jarman

Response:

Stinking chicken-shit sacks of crap. That’s what I think of the folks at Suncom. No answer, no help, no support for their products. May they all go to hell. W Spilman

Ummmmm, Im sensing some hostility here:) Regards Mailman

Response:

I have an SFS throttle (ser.# 4645) that I purchased at my local Electronics Boutique, and registered online. I have seen snippets of information indicating that there was some defect in early production models of the Throttle. I have made numerous posts and sent e-mails to your company requesting some official response, but I have heard nothing. My hat switch is malfunctioning. Programmed keys will operate properly when tested in Notepad, but functon sporadically (if at all) when in a game. Will someone please tell me what the nature of the mysterious is, and what can I do to get my throttle repaired. Thank you. Webb Spilman

Response:

Stinking chicken-shit sacks of crap. That’s what I think of the folks at Suncom. No answer, no help, no support for their products. May they all go to hell. W Spilman

Response:

I take it you’ve been on hold for more than a couple of minutes? -Arlo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stinking chicken-shit sacks of crap. That’s what I think of the folks at Suncom. No answer, no help, no support for their products. May they all go to hell. W Spilman

Response:

Stinking chicken-shit sacks of crap. That’s what I think of the folks at Suncom. No answer, no help, no support for their products. May they all go to hell. W Spilman But how do you REALLY feel?

Yes please, don’t sugarcoat it….:-) -John "Life is the pursuit, not the capture" – Major Scott D. Anderson, MN Air National Guard.  1966-1999

Response:

If they are getting your goat that badly, then you are letting them win.  Turn the tide on them – find someone who cares.  Or, continue advocating not patronizing them. Bruce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stinking chicken-shit sacks of crap. That’s what I think of the folks at Suncom. No answer, no help, no support for their products. May they all go to hell. W Spilman But how do you REALLY feel? The Speedbyrd

Question:

My cats hate the bathroom. However they can’t get enough of me when I am on the computer. As soon as I log on my two younger cats want to jump in my lap, butt their heads against my arms and walk all over the keyboard. My dogs love it when I shower, however. When I get out of the shower my 2 shelties love to rush in and lick my wet legs! — Debbie Cusick I plan to be a procrastinator some day if I ever get around to it. Check out the asdlc FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc

I have never gone to the bathroom alone for as long as I have had my cat….Toilet trips only, not showers…for some reason she has no inclination to see me naked. She is quite afraid of the flushy noise…but she is very well self- trained…as soon as she hears the toilet paper roll…she scampers

out!

Response:

You pet-o-phile! ;P Debby 310/209/150 My dogs love it when I shower, however. When I get out of the shower my 2 shelties love to rush in and lick my wet legs! — Debbie Cusick

– * * * * *  WEB PAGE NOW BACK ON-LINE * * * * * WEBSITE: http://debby.simplenet.com  ____          __    __                                               |      _____ |  |  |  | __    __                                     |  )  )/  __ |   |   \  / /    ”’                             |     )  ___/|  ) ||  ) | / /    (o o)                                                        /_/

Response:

However they can’t get enough of me when I am on the computer. As soon as I log on my two younger cats want to jump in

my lap, butt their heads against my arms and walk all over the keyboard.

LOLOL.. my youngest cat likes to sleep up under my chin when i’m on the computer. Good thing I got the boob-shelf to hold her up…… Tamera 237/182/140 "Do you have a point other than the one on top of your head?"

Response:

However they can’t get enough of me when I am on the computer. As soon as I log on my two younger cats want to jump in my lap, butt their heads against my arms and walk all over the keyboard. LOLOL.. my youngest cat likes to sleep up under my chin when i’m on the computer. Good thing I got the boob-shelf to hold her up……

<ASSUME THERAPIST MODE And how do you think your dear cat will feel when she realizes her cherished napspot will be gradually but distinctly decreased over the next months? HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF HER? Humans.  They only think of themselves. ;^) — St Theresa of the Net/only one you at uwm/Goal: HS wardrobe/&Don in ‘99/all bases covered

Response:

My three felines HAVE to have that bathroom door open.  If I’m in there, they want to be with me, if DH is in there they just pound the door open and walk away.  When I’m on the computer they usually arrange themselves around me and nap.  Once in awhile Dorrie will bite my legs to get attention. Hazel Az

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My cats are weird, they want more attention when I’m in the bathroom than anywhere else in the house. ROFLMAO…OMG I thought my cats were the only weird ones!!! LOLOLOLOL  I have 4 cats.. I always have an audience when I’m showering or using the bathroom!!! My oldest cat thinks cuz I’m sitting on the Toilet it’s perfectly acceptable for her to nap in my lap…LOLOLOLOL Tamera 237/182/140 "Do you have a point other than the one on top of your head?"

Response:

My Princess Yasmine (she’s a little tiny 4 lb Himalayan) jumps on my computer chair as soon as I get up in the am, because she knows that I log on first thing.  Then she sits in my lap while I read, and if I don’t pet her, she gets mad and BITES my hands really hard!  She’s a nasty little thing! Jae – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However they can’t get enough of me when I am on the computer. As soon as I log on my two younger cats want to jump in my lap, butt their heads against my arms and walk all over the keyboard.

Response:

Normally yes, but hers is changed everyday… Of course, this is a cat, who comes out to my computer and jumps on my lap… Then runs into the bedroom, and then comes back out and jumps in my lap… Then runs again for the bedroom… She’s telling me it’s "bedtime"…. And when I go in there, she’s taken over half my pillow… — Marie 220/192/140 For those who say it can’t be done… Are being passed by those doing it. NEWBIES… Check out low carb info at http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everyone’s post is just all too funny.  My cat is the same way.  Once you go in there, here she comes, having to go too…. I guess she wants everyone to be proud of what she has accomplished…  And if by chance you’re not in there when she has to go, she’ll scratch and scratch until you tell her you hear her, then she’ll come on out… In my experience, when they keep scratching until they get your attention ("What are you doin’ in there, digging to China?"), it really means, "Momma, please scoop, we don’t wanna step in the poop." or  "our litter is non-clumping, this ammonia needs dumping." —  "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

My kitty, BabyKat, (some petite Siamese mix) will only drink from the bathroom faucet. Whenever she sees me going into the restroom she chirrups and jumps into the sink and stares at me..if I don’t comply immediately by turning the faucet on to a thin stream, (can’t be a drip or too fast, must remember this always! lol) she will pull the drain stopper out of the sink and go hide it.   If I go into the shower first thing in the morning, without giving her the usual good morning petting and sweettalk, she will stand outside the curtain and talk to me.  As soon as the water is off she jumps in the shower to drink whatever water is left going down the drain.   She is a hoot! ^..^ <     meaouw

Pammers

Response:

LOL. — Debbie Cusick I plan to be a procrastinator some day if I ever get around to it. Check out the asdlc FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You pet-o-phile! ;P My dogs love it when I shower, however. When I get out of the shower my 2 shelties love to rush in and lick my wet legs! — Debbie Cusick

Response:

<ASSUME THERAPIST MODE And how do you think your dear cat will feel when she realizes her cherished napspot will be gradually but distinctly decreased over the next months? HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF HER? Humans.  They only think of themselves.

ROFLMAO… actually, they will still be "bountiful". I was a 38D at 125 lbs (my teenage nick-name was"Dolly") Tamera 237/182/140 "Do you have a point other than the one on top of your head?"

Response:

My Princess Yasmine (she’s a little tiny 4 lb Himalayan) jumps on my computer

chair as soon as I get up in the am, because she knows that I log on first thing.  Then she sits in my lap while I read, and if I don’t pet her, she gets mad and BITES my hands really hard!  She’s a nasty little thing! Jae

My kitten, misyt, has an appointmnt to be "fixed"  this thursday. Guess what.. she went into her first heat this weekend.  LOLOLOL… she wants a boyfriend really bad.!!!! She’s either grooming her lovliness in anticipation of snagging a boyfirend.. or doing a feline" bar-top" shimmy dance and yowling her unhappiness.  The puppy loves it because she’s so desperate she lets daisey jump on her and chew her…LOLOL…she’s on my boobshelf as we speak…. Tamera 237/182/140 "Do you have a point other than the one on top of your head?"

Response:

I was a 38D at 125 lbs (my teenage nick-name was"Dolly") Tamera

Funny, mine was too..but that was because my last name was Parton…kids all thought it ironic that I wore a trainerbra til I was 19 with a name like that LOL Pammers = ) — "You keep on getting what you’ve been getting when you keep on doing what you’ve been doing." http://www.azstarnet.com/~midian/pam/pam.html  Pam Patterson

Response:

my cat, Jane, (sorry, I just had tojump in here)  Loves ORIGINS GINGER SOUFFLE body creme…..she likes to lick the jar, and my legs or arms when I used it…I couldn’t get rid of her!!! I don’t use it anymore because the  S/O (b) said it smells like BBQ sauce…(Go figure)  …but Janey-girl jumps up on my vanity and still licks the side of the jar…     yeccch…no accounting for taste….. Deb "Every day is a good day."  Yun-Men

Response:

My dog likes to eat lipstick.  I have to keep my lipstick tubes above waist level otherwise she eats them! Debby 310/209/150 my cat, Jane, (sorry, I just had tojump in here)  Loves ORIGINS GINGER SOUFFLE body creme…..she likes to lick the jar, and my legs or arms when I used it…I couldn’t get rid of her!!! I don’t use it anymore because the  S/O (b) said it smells like BBQ sauce…(Go figure)  …but Janey-girl jumps up on my vanity and still licks the side of the jar… yeccch…no accounting for taste….. Deb "Every day is a good day."  Yun-Men

– * * * * *  WEB PAGE NOW BACK ON-LINE * * * * * WEBSITE: http://debby.simplenet.com  ____          __    __                                               |      _____ |  |  |  | __    __                                     |  )  )/  __ |   |   \  / /    ”’                             |     )  ___/|  ) ||  ) | / /    (o o)                                                        /_/

Response:

my cat , cookie , loves to drink out of th tub, too.especially now that the baby puts her dry food in her water dish about 50 times a day! karyn

Response:

Everyone’s post is just all too funny.  My cat is the same way.  Once you go in there, here she comes, having to go too…. I guess she wants everyone to be proud of what she has accomplished…  And if by chance you’re not in there when she has to go, she’ll scratch and scratch until you tell her you hear her, then she’ll come on out…

In my experience, when they keep scratching until they get your attention ("What are you doin’ in there, digging to China?"), it really means, "Momma, please scoop, we don’t wanna step in the poop." or  "our litter is non-clumping, this ammonia needs dumping." —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

Congratulations on your decision Gayle.  You and I are about the same with the same goal. And remember to drink your water…then you’ll find out that the cat will be your best bathroom buddy!  Well, make that in all probability your only bathroom buddy.  My cats are weird, they want more attention when I’m in the bathroom than anywhere else in the house.  So that’s why they like it better when I go more often.  And they are the only ones to see me weigh and measure and they haven’t blabbed my weight to anyone….yet. Good luck, Paula …only my cat was around and she didn’t get it…just looked at me  curiously

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -cats don’t give much feedback and the family is not any support…

Response:

My cats are weird, they want more attention when I’m in the bathroom than anywhere else in the house.

ROFLMAO…OMG I thought my cats were the only weird ones!!! LOLOLOLOL  I have 4 cats.. I always have an audience when I’m showering or using the bathroom!!! My oldest cat thinks cuz I’m sitting on the Toilet it’s perfectly acceptable for her to nap in my lap…LOLOLOLOL Tamera 237/182/140 "Do you have a point other than the one on top of your head?"

Response:

I have never gone to the bathroom alone for as long as I have had my cat….Toilet trips only, not showers…for some reason she has no inclination to see me naked. She is quite afraid of the flushy noise…but she is very well self- trained…as soon as she hears the toilet paper roll…she scampers out! 5′6" 312(52)-242(44)-160(38?)-work pants size ( Longing to be the woman I was, not the woman I could be! ) *1999* My Millenium Makeover In Progress Losing the weight is only step one. Just Me,  Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the Silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org

Response:

Everyone’s post is just all too funny.  My cat is the same way.  Once you go in there, here she comes, having to go too…. I guess she wants everyone to be proud of what she has accomplished…  And if by chance you’re not in there when she has to go, she’ll scratch and scratch until you tell her you hear her, then she’ll come on out… — Marie 220/192/140 For those who say it can’t be done… Are being passed by those doing it. NEWBIES… Check out low carb info at http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never gone to the bathroom alone for as long as I have had my cat….Toilet trips only, not showers…for some reason she has no inclination to see me naked. She is quite afraid of the flushy noise…but she is very well self- trained…as soon as she hears the toilet paper roll…she scampers out! 5′6" 312(52)-242(44)-160(38?)-work pants size ( Longing to be the woman I was, not the woman I could be! ) *1999* My Millenium Makeover In Progress Losing the weight is only step one. Just Me,  Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the Silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org

Response:

Gayle, I think success can be measured in steps.  You’ve already taken the first big one, you already are a success.  Since you don’t have a lot of outside support, stick with this group, they have helped me immensely! Good luck on day 4… Jayde

Response:

Welcome to our life.  I suspect that you will lose the Prednisone weight quite rapidly.  And I will tell you something else…  Your cat will LOVE your new WOE.  My cat never used to be beneath the dinner table like she has since we have been doing meat and veggies.  You will feel better after a while, after your body adjusts, and it will.  My liver loves my new WOL.  My arthritis is completely gone and I haven’t used my inhaler in two or three months (knock wood). — Val in Boise 168/135/Forever

Response:

Gayle,     Congratulations!  It sounds like you made a great start.  You will love this diet.  I think it is fairly easy to stay on.  I have been on it since Jan. and have lost 20 as of this morning,  I went shopping last Sat.  and the pants I was trying on were 2 sizes smaller!  I was very surprised and thrilled.  So of course I had to buy them.       I know it is very hard to stay on a diet when no one in your family is on it.  I’ve been there.  But with this diet, I think the food allowed is soooo good that most of the time my family eats it with me.  Explain to them too that you are doing this, not just to lose weight but for the health factor.  That helped with my husband.  He is now on this diet with me, which is WONDERFUL.        Good luck and let us know how it goes.  Oh by the way, there is also a Dr. Atkins message board.  I don’t have the address off hand, but I think I found it when looked up the diet on the internet on net find.              Jane

Response:

Go for it Gayle!  You poor thing, with that massive weight gain on the Prednisone.  Well your induction loss should be equally huge since it must be mainly water retention …. no one can put on 20 pounds of actual FAT in one week! Keep your carbs low, don’t worry about calories in fact if you even THINK you are hungry, eat some meat You will succeed at this!! Hi everyone, I am new to this group. I just started reading a couple days ago. I started the Atkins Diet on Tuesday…..

– Brenda Gray – Low Carb since 24 Jan 98 ~^

Question:

I’m using quickbooks and I’ve been recording my eBay fees from items I sell, in their own expense account. Where should this expense go at tax time, or should it be factored into COGS? Thanks, Mare

Response:

It belongs in cost of sales category. Why not call it eBay Fees on your tax return. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m using quickbooks and I’ve been recording my eBay fees from items I sell, in their own expense account. Where should this expense go at tax time, or should it be factored into COGS? Thanks, Mare

Response:

Lulu-I have a little experience in the mfg field of cost acctg-If this cost is a major part of what it took to get your product to the marketplace it is a COGS – If it is minor, like you spent $50 bucks to make it; $10 to store it and you already sunk the costs on the value of your inventory, these things get much more complex and you have to know if you are costing on Last in First Out basis, or First in First Out, and you need a licensed professional to "really" give you that kind of advise, so for simplicity the ebay fees are part of Shipping & Distribution Costs and some would call this expense Sales Commissions, the question you must ask, is it incurred if you never sell it? Then it was not a "cost" of Manufacturing it. You already know it was a cost of selling it, are you paying the fees in the period in which you reap the tax benefit of acquiring the goods for sale? Ck the IRS’s rules on HOBBY/LOSS.  Be sure you have good accounting of your inventory if you want to write off expenses. – Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m using quickbooks and I’ve been recording my eBay fees from items I sell, in their own expense account. Where should this expense go at tax time, or should it be factored into COGS? Mare

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Question:

Hi,         I have a client who uses Peachtree Accounting and needs a sophisticated inventory system that will integrate with it.  The problem is they would like to use barcoding to cut down on typo errors.  What happens is they receive the parts in Shipping & Receiving and have to write down the model and serial numbers for each one that comes in.  Then they are sent to the Testing Dept where each item is logged in and quality tested, the bad items are sent back to Shipping & Receiving for RMA and the good ones are sent to the Warehouse where again each item is logged in and then stored in a specific location for that particular model number. This happens in a matter of minutes in some cases.  The problem is as you can see that when each item goes from dept to dept that the chances of someone writing the wrong model or serial number is pretty high.  They would like to find a software package that would do this that is compatible with bar code scanners and can integrate with Peachtree.  Someone had said something about Zebra Corporation and they do have a product called The Suite that seems like it could do the job, but they are difficult to reach.  If anyone could tell me where to get such a package, it would be greatly appreciated.  Thank You. Regards, John Eacrett President Custom Computers 6 White Street Lowell, MA 01854-2831 Phone: (508)937-3961

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Thanks Everyone,         Hopefully I’ll be able to figure out this mess.  I know that they should change software packages,  getting them to do it is another matter (employee training, etc…).  If anyone has any other ideas other than macola ( which I’m looking into), please let me know. BTW the client has an Ethernet Lan running Windows NT.                                         Regards,                                         John

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Check out DBA. We used to have a customized package (RPGII) on a IBM 36. Went to DBA and it has all the features of a full blown system (DBAsoftware out of California) They have a web site and demo software.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,         I have a client who uses Peachtree Accounting and needs a sophisticated inventory system that will integrate with it.  The problem is they would like to use barcoding to cut down on typo errors. SNIP…  Thank You. Regards, John Eacrett President Custom Computers 6 White Street Lowell, MA 01854-2831 Phone: (508)937-3961

John, As stated in Mr. Mosiers’ post perhaps your client needs more than an interface with his current system. Please take the time to browse our site, we offer a fully integrated package that will handle all, Service,Manufacturing,P.O., Inventory, B.O.M. Multi Warehousing (may be used for manufacturing or test) etc… 18 Modules in all! Good Luck in your search, if we can be of any assistance please call. — Norm Swaebe, President SynCom Computer Services Inc. "http://www.syncom.on.ca"

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Your client needs a far more robust package – Probably Macola which is very strong in handling complicated purchasing/receiving/testing – Basically distribution while purchasing and selling.  I note that you also need serial numbers. From the looks of it, you are way out of your league.  Forget trying to make Peachtree work here.  Buy a strong package. Regrds Habib Salim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I have a client who uses Peachtree Accounting and needs a sophisticated inventory system that will integrate with it.  The problem is they would like to use barcoding to cut down on typo errors.  What happens is they receive the parts in Shipping & Receiving and have to write down the model and serial numbers for each one that comes in.  Then they are sent to the Testing Dept where each item is logged in and quality tested, the bad items are sent back to Shipping & Receiving for RMA and the good ones are sent to the Warehouse where again each item is logged in and then stored in a specific location for that particular model number. This happens in a matter of minutes in some cases.  The problem is as you can see that when each item goes from dept to dept that the chances of someone writing the wrong model or serial number is pretty high.  They would like to find a software package that would do this that is compatible with bar code scanners and can integrate with Peachtree.  Someone had said something about Zebra Corporation and they do have a product called The Suite that seems like it could do the job, but they are difficult to reach.  If anyone could tell me where to get such a package, it would be greatly appreciated.  Thank You. Regards, John Eacrett President Custom Computers 6 White Street Lowell, MA 01854-2831 Phone: (508)937-3961

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Looking at what you mentioned, P-tree is not up to that kind of effort. I also would suggest Macola. I have a client (mfg) who was on P-tree and found it couldn’t do enough.  They are happy on Macola and it is giving them more control over their operation and more control over their inventory in particular. They are finding that my statement that they have too much is true! Real accounting systems do cost money, but the information they provide and the ease of use they bring with them is worth it. You don’t mention what type of network your client uses (they DO have a network, don’t they?) but most systems are quite happy on Novell or Win NT. You can use a Win for Workgroups but it can get a bit busy unless you dedicate one machine as a "server" for the net. Good luck,         Dana

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Hi,    I have a client who uses Peachtree Accounting and needs a sophisticated inventory system that will integrate with it.  The

Knowing the implications … I would suggest that you dump Peachtree and start over.      Scott Lincoln      Lincoln Computers

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking at what you mentioned, P-tree is not up to that kind of effort. I also would suggest Macola. I have a client (mfg) who was on P-tree and found it couldn’t do enough.  They are happy on Macola and it is giving them more control over their operation and more control over their inventory in particular. They are finding that my statement that they have too much is true! Real accounting systems do cost money, but the information they provide and the ease of use they bring with them is worth it. You don’t mention what type of network your client uses (they DO have a network, don’t they?) but most systems are quite happy on Novell or Win NT. You can use a Win for Workgroups but it can get a bit busy unless you dedicate one machine as a "server" for the net. Good luck,    Dana

Amen to that.  Low end accounting is lowest common denominator and works well for very few clients (I remember Peachtree when they were on 8" CP/M floppys, one of several rip-offs of a public domain port from a mini (Rocky Mountain was amost identical (eventually absorbed by James River, now selling Unix/NT Firewalls)) – talk about slooooow)***. Macola is good and may work, or not – the devil is always in the details.  Accounting is accounting until you have to do business the client’s way.  Once upon a time you could tell the client he had to conform to the computer’s way, but clients are a lot smarter now.   The devil is ALWAYS in the details, and the right devil may cost a few thousand $$$, but overhead can eat that in a month if you choose the wrong<< devil (sometimes recognizable as the "lowest cost" devil, but

it can be the "highest cost devil" almost as often).   Of course, if you your inventory needs "alloy/shape/size/condition" in the salesperson’s face in .5 seconds, and stepscan to all possible alternatives, or "stock card" format, I have the only game in town. there are some things relational just can’t do.  If I had 10% of what my "expensive custom" saved that client I’d retire (his words).   *** Lisp fans, did I get those ((())) right – you counted, didn’t you? Andrew Grygus  -  California Republic Resist Microsoft!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,         I have a client who uses Peachtree Accounting and needs a sophisticated inventory system that will integrate with it.  The problem is they would like to use barcoding to cut down on typo errors.  What happens is they receive the parts in Shipping & Receiving and have to write down the model and serial numbers for each one that comes in.  Then they are sent to the Testing Dept where each item is logged in and quality tested, the bad items are sent back to Shipping & Receiving for RMA and the good ones are sent to the Warehouse where again each item is logged in and then stored in a specific location for that particular model number. This happens in a matter of minutes in some cases.  The problem is as you can see that when each item goes from dept to dept that the chances of someone writing the wrong model or serial number is pretty high.  They would like to find a software package that would do this that is compatible with bar code scanners and can integrate with Peachtree.  Someone had said something about Zebra Corporation and they do have a product called The Suite that seems like it could do the job, but they are difficult to reach.  If anyone could tell me where to get such a package, it would be greatly appreciated.  Thank You. Regards, John Eacrett

John: You do not mention the size of your client.  It seems that if your client has needs this sophisticated in inventory, they may be seeing limitations in other areas, as well.  Our web site has information that may be useful to you. If you can get me a little more information on the size and other needs, we can help. — John Mosier, excelco   voice: (800) 553-6911      fax: (602) 952-0449 4917 E Thomas, #150    http://excelco.com/swinfo.htm   SouthWare Info Phoenix, AZ 85018      http://excelco.com/  Accounting System Selector – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  CHRIST is Head of ALL!  http://www.thechristian.org  <<<<<<<<<

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Question:

I am taking Microsoft courses at night, and I have a real hard time keeping on track…I don’t want to take meds that late at night, and the distractions in class are bad, but I’ll get through it, because I enjoy it so much.  Michael, you have hit the nail on the head in many ways.  I am also planning on taking some programming courses, I’ll have a hell of a time in class, I’m sure.  Thanks for your post, we all need encouragement from others like ourselves!

Thank you! y’know, while I don’t know beans about this med. or that med. or chemistry or food additives or soybean oil or cyclamates, or gods purest natural wonderful add alternative treatment or emulsified boogers, *this* is a subject where I can share my experience and MNSHE. I’m glad you’re enjoying your classes. I know you will keep on track, because you ain’t got no alternative. <g -m P.S.  Remember to breathe. — Michael Frankel (SayItRealFast) http://wwa.com/~mjf/  

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seventies prevented me from getting summa-cum-laude. Well, then,  acuna matada!  < reference Lion King

Very aptly explains how I spent most of the eighties. -m — Michael Frankel (SayItRealFast) http://wwa.com/~mjf/ Please take a look at this site:   http://www.sirius.com/~cydonia/usenet/anti_fff/

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seventies prevented me from getting summa-cum-laude.

Well, then,  acuna matada!  < reference Lion King Bill F

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: Michael, : You seem so confident and full of life! Glad to hear of  yet anouther : ADDer’s success story. Very uplifting. It’s a keeper. It only made me feel worse. I sure wish he could send me the sources for his sales talent. That’s why I left this newsgroup and the ADDult mailing list in the first place. It only made me feel worse. — Microsoft is living proof that a sales talent is vastly more useful in a capitalist society than intelligence. A person with an IQ of 1,000 could die destitute, but a cretin with a sales talent can become a billionaire http://www.ripco.com/~pentius/

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|

|: Michael, | |: You seem so confident and full of life! Glad to hear of  yet anouther |: ADDer’s success story. Very uplifting. It’s a keeper. | |It only made me feel worse. I sure wish he could send me the sources for |his sales talent. That’s why I left this newsgroup and the ADDult mailing |list in the first place. It only made me feel worse. | |– |Microsoft is living proof that a sales talent is vastly more useful in a |capitalist society than intelligence. A person with an IQ of 1,000 could |die destitute, but a cretin with a sales talent can become a billionaire | |http://www.ripco.com/~pentius/ We’e missed you. Don Stauffer | Email is welcome except solicitation, which | | will be forwarded to domain Administrators. |

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Michael: Your post was very positive and I think we all need to hear a story with happy ending now and thn. I just started to visit this newsgroup after a little break, so please forgive me if I ask something you have already answered. Do you have ADD, or did you have it when you were a student?  I know that ADDers can achieve a great success in schools, but I don’t think its common.  Although I did finish college (without knowing I had ADD), it was just with average results.  I did very good with subjects I liked, but destroyed my average with subjects I found boring.  I was never able to turn it all into fun.  Even if you really liked your chosen major, there must have been something you did not care for.  How did you make that fun? Joe —

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Michael: Your post was very positive and I think we all need to hear a story with happy ending now and thn. I just started to visit this newsgroup after a little break, so please forgive me if I ask something you have already answered.

Thank you. Sometimes I get so caught up in destroying faker that I must kick myself in the butt and post something constructive. Do you have ADD, or did you have it when you were a student?  

Yes, my history indicates the symptom set as far back as I can remember. Although I was formally diagnosed about three years ago when I was in my mid-thirties. I know that ADDers can achieve a great success in schools, but I don’t think its common.  Although I did finish college (without knowing I had ADD), it was just with average results.  I did very good with subjects I liked, but destroyed my average with subjects I found boring.  I was never able to turn it all into fun.  Even if you really liked your chosen major, there must have been something you did not care for.  How did you make that fun?

Damn! That’s a great question! I don’t have an easy answer to that. I guess you’re right about not *everything* being fun. Here’s the most extreme example… When I took technical writing I was doing okay until the final assignment: a feasability report. Prof wanted three-part harmony and perfection. I procrastinated, and even when I got myself to sit down and work I was totally blocked. Panic, fear, desperation. I convinced my prof to give me an incomplete. I never turned that paper in. After three months, the incomplete automatically became an F. Until that point I had a no-hitter: straight A’s accross the board. Three years of A’s in *everything*. When I screw up, I do it very effectively. I eventually re-took the class with a different prof and got an A. The F from the previous class is still on my transcript, but is not included in my GPA. I eventually completed my no-hitter (the last quarter was terrifying!), but a couple of B’s from my film school days in the late seventies prevented me from getting summa-cum-laude. When I went job hunting just before graduation, the interviewer would see all these A’s and one F. "What’s with the "F" Mike?" one asked. "Oh, *that* was my quarter from hell!", I replied. I got that job, but the fact that I should have *never* accepted their offer is the topic for another post. I guess no one can have "fun" with everything. One of my secrets was treating school like  a job. Another was attending *every* class: I never knew when the prof would say something that would *click*. Let’s see, I dropped art history-HATED IT! Good lesson there, recognize and deal with a negative situation… I took the required music class pass/fail (my only P/F class). I just spent almost a decade selling stereos. The *last* thing I wanted to do ws to be required to listen to music! (I wanted to play with computers, don’t you know.) But usually I found *some* way to "own" the material. I may elaborate in another post, but this one’s long enough. (y’all still with me?) -m — Michael Frankel (SayItRealFast) http://wwa.com/~mjf/ Please take a look at this site:   http://www.sirius.com/~cydonia/usenet/anti_fff/

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Michael, You seem so confident and full of life! Glad to hear of  yet anouther ADDer’s success story. Very uplifting. It’s a keeper. Thanks!

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Adding some thoughts to this thread… very thought provoking! <g In my family, we are basically all ADDers, some medically diagnosed, most not… a chaotic life, everyone is milling around, but when we put our heads together, good things happen. Personally, I excell at anything that is new and refreshing, challenging and fun. When it gets too mundane, too routine, too predicatable, I feel stifled, panicked, I tend to get so claustrophobic that even on an overcast day I can panic. Same as a stifling relationship or restricted lifestyle, I have to be able to change, do something different and find something I’ve never done before, and say, "This is kewl!" <g Everything is wonderful, then. Trouble is, I drop everything else, to do the new stuff. If I have the same client for too long, doing the same stuff and for too long a project (I freelance) it gets done slower and slower, and slower… can’t seem to restart, if it’s too boring! I end up getting literally ill, if I make myself do something I hate for too long. Agh. Wendy

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snip of all sorts of wonderful stuff But I digress…

Digress all you want, Michael, this post is great. If you think you have potiental then you have it. Its your call. You are not failing. Get used to writing code that breaks, you learn when you go through the process of fixing your bugs: Make lots of mistakes, that’s how you will learn. snip Now, I’ll let you in on a secret, the purpose of obtaining an education. Is it to make lots of money?  NO. Is it to make a difference? NO, not directly. Is it ______? No. The purpose of an education is to learn how to learn. Thats it! The process is personal, and your frustration and anger and fear are signs that you care about figuring this out. And it ain’t easy. But for folks like you and I there just isn’t an alternative.

I am taking Microsoft courses at night, and I have a real hard time keeping on track…I don’t want to take meds that late at night, and the distractions in class are bad, but I’ll get through it, because I enjoy it so much.  Michael, you have hit the nail on the head in many ways.  I am also planning on taking some programming courses, I’ll have a hell of a time in class, I’m sure.  Thanks for your post, we all need encouragement from others like ourselves! — Ann To avoid junk e-mail, my address is incorrect in the from box.  Remove the 9 to correct it.  Thank you!

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  Hello all my dear new friends:)      I was just sitting here reading and thinking, what if my questions in my head are not appropriate to post here?  Then, I read more and felt right at home.   I will just be as clear as I can, and I hope I get my message accross. That seems to be a real problem for me. (Im already off track of what I intended to say) Please bear with me:)   I am a college student, and (severe?) ADD.  At least it feels severe to me!  Anyway, I am taking a computer programming class and have found difficulties there that I hadnt even considered.  In class, my instructor constantly gives out steps to follow on the computer, and I am constantly LOST!!   He keeps having to come over to me and help me get to where the rest of the class is. I must seem like a total airhead!!   I am very intelligent, and I KNOW I can be a fantastic programmer, but class is such a problem for me.  I worked on the assignments at home, and I learned more than at school, because I didnt have to follow anyones instructions.  I left the class feeling so humiliated and discouraged.  I dont understand what happens to me!  How can I have all this "brain power" and not be able to use it.  I am terrified that I will never make it through college and just be a nobody all my life.  I have so much I want to accomplish and it just seems to take way more effort than it should.  Someone help me please!  I dont know how long I can keep trying and failing, and trying and failing….. so frustrated….. Brenda

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 Hello all my dear new friends:)      I was just sitting here reading and thinking, what if my questions in my head are not appropriate to post here?  Then, I read more and felt right at home.

Hi Brenda! Take the comfy chair. Good. Drink? Food? You’re okay? Wonderful! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I will just be as clear as I can, and I hope I get my message accross. That seems to be a real problem for me. (Im already off track of what I intended to say) Please bear with me:)  I am a college student, and (severe?) ADD.  At least it feels severe to me!  Anyway, I am taking a computer programming class and have found difficulties there that I hadnt even considered.  In class, my instructor constantly gives out steps to follow on the computer, and I am constantly LOST!!   He keeps having to come over to me and help me get to where the rest of the class is. I must seem like a total airhead!!   I am very intelligent, and I KNOW I can be a fantastic programmer, but class is such a problem for me.  I worked on the assignments at home, and I learned more than at school, because I didnt have to follow anyones instructions.  I left the class feeling so humiliated and discouraged.  I dont understand what happens to me!  How can I have all this "brain power" and not be able to use it.  I am terrified that I will never make it through college and just be a nobody all my life.  I have so much I want to accomplish and it just seems to take way more effort than it should.  Someone help me please!  I dont know how long I can keep trying and failing, and trying and failing….. so frustrated….. Brenda

I am a software designer, and I get paid very well to boot. <g Your experiences could well be mine. Here’s some thoughts: But you aren’t failing! You work at home with excellent results. Programming (or construction) is solitary. Programming is something you will not learn in class. <g You learn to program by writing code. (And researching best practices, whatever the hell *that* means!) Class has too many distractions. *Accept this* Take good notes. Try to put your brain/recorder in automatic mode, then at home go over them carefully. My company sends me to training worth  tens of thousands of dollars: I *still* have trouble **in class**. But on my own I kick ass. I must play. I was trying to figure out if I should major in accounting or computer science (what ever *that* was <g). (I should mention that I was 29 years old and had sold stereos most of my life. I also thought I was stupid-still do. <g) Anyway, I was studying for the accounting final. Needed to be able to compute a five year depreciation table for four (?) different methods of depreciation. Was I studying? No. I found myself programming my calculator to perfrom the calculations for me and automatically spit out the table figures cell by cell–for each method. This was done on a cheap casio calculator, but it used sub-routines and I even gave it a menu. But I wasn’t studying!!! I was having fun. Uh oh… Bottom line, when I finished that program, I had the algorithm for the computations down cold: I OWNED them (a favorate expression of mine, directly related to the huge tuition I was paying). I aced the final. I took a metaphysical step back and realized that I wanted to play and have fun. So I got a degree in computer science (magna cum laude). Now I attend meetings with dipshits. But that’s another story <g But I digress… I doubt that your grade depends upon how you do in-class stuff. Your grade should reflect your programming assignments (done outside of class) and your test scores. Your goal is to play. By playing you will own the material. By playing you will have fun! By playing you will get decent grades. You must play! You must figure out what turns you on! The hell with what happens in class. You probably need to play on your own to "get" the material. GOOD! EXCELLENT!!! PERFECT!!! If you think you have potiental then you have it. Its your call. You are not failing. Get used to writing code that breaks, you learn when you go through the process of fixing your bugs: Make lots of mistakes, that’s how you will learn. I *did* mention that you will not learn to program in any class, didn’t I? Ride out your frustration. Your frustration level is a sign that you care, a sign that you want to excell, as sign that you are  not mediocre. I know what this feels like! Even when you succeed, there’s a potential for a letdown afterword (a common ADD trait). Heads-up! Now, I’ll let you in on a secret, the purpose of obtaining an education. Is it to make lots of money?  NO. Is it to make a difference? NO, not directly. Is it ______? No. The purpose of an education is to learn how to learn. Thats it! The process is personal, and your frustration and anger and fear are signs that you care about figuring this out. And it ain’t easy. But for folks like you and I there just isn’t an alternative. You will get through this. Please send me email, if you want to discuss specifics. -m — Michael Frankel (SayItRealFast) http://wwa.com/~mjf/  

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I think it would help each other out alot if we just started trading everyday stories.  We could see that we’re not "aliens" and that there is someone out there that is like us.  These can be funny, silly or sad.  Any kind of story.  Maybe each of us could post one every once in a while and keep the thread going. My story: last week I cleaned the bathroom before I got dressed (I’ve got this on a schedule and feel really guilty if I don’t do it, isn’t helping with the laundry this week).  Anyway, it was a good thing I wasn’t completely dressed because I ended up splashing water on my legs.  But that has nothing to do with the ADD. I thought to myself when I was done and dressed except for socks.  "I’ll take this cleaning stuff to the closet and then go in the bedroom and get socks, my feet are cold."  So I walked out the door and to my bedroom down the hall.  When I got there I couldn’t remember why I was there.  I turned around and saw the linen closet.  "Oh yeah, I must have meant to put the cleaning stuff away."  Went back to the bathroom, put the stuff away and went down stairs.  After about 10 minutes I thought "My feet are cold, oh, that’s what I was in the bedroom for.  DUH!" Oh, and I didn’t go immediately to get the socks, I called a friend instead.  :-). OK, your turn. Nyoka

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Ann, We don’t want you to go away.  It’s just that we all feel better when we get the dx.  God, and I thought I had problems getting to see a psych. Keep coming here.  Email me, I’m not dx’d either.  Find the tests on the net, go back to the library and see if you can get them to find books for you (I have a list if you need it).  We have interlibrary loans here and it helps a lot. Nyoka

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When I got there I couldn’t remember why I was there.  I turned around

and saw the linen closet.  "Oh yeah, I must have meant to put the cleaning stuff away."  Went back to the bathroom, put the stuff away and went down stairs.  After about 10 minutes I thought "My feet are cold, oh, that’s what I was in the bedroom for.  DUH!" Oh, and I didn’t go immediately to get the socks, I called a friend

instead.  :-). OK, your turn.

That’s every morning for me. Getting the kids to school. I go into the room to get something, stand there, get something else, go back out, well, you get the message. I think I do a six-mile walk back and forth in the house to get just myself ready, and forget Sunday morning, all three of us getting dressed at the same time? When I finally get to services, I’m asked "How are you?", and I sigh gustily and say, "I’m here!" A huge accomplishment! Wendy (I am beat! Time to sign off! <g)

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Well, I just moved into my new office/cube. Its smaller than the old one because the building is overcrowded. I don’t mind the size, really–at least I have my own turf. The walls are tall enough, but the problem is the opening is wider, or maybe it seems that way now. I don’t feel as enclosed as I did with the old office. Also there’s two windows built into the isle wall. I feel like I’m in a fishbowl. I put lots of comics up on those windows. Sigh… -m — Michael Frankel (SayItRealFast) http://wwa.com/~mjf/  

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