Question:

AC is doing quite well apparently. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well".

Get with the program, that article is over a year old.   Air Canada has since left creditor protection and is projecting an operating profit of almost a quarter billion dollars for the third quarter. http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2004/10/15/aircanada_041015… And technically, Air Canada never did declare bankruptcy.  Under Canadian accounting rules, bankruptcy is when a company is beyond hope, and is to be liquidated, akin to US chapter 7.  What they did is file a voluntary petition for reorganization under the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act, which gives them temporary protection from creditors. Unlike in the US, this is not part of an overall bankruptcy law.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – AC is doing quite well apparently. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well". Get with the program, that article is over a year old. Air Canada has since left creditor protection and is projecting an operating profit of almost a quarter billion dollars for the third quarter. http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2004/10/15/aircanada_041015…

James, from the second sentence of that article: "ACE Aviation Holdings Inc. said the operating profit figures do not include reorganization and restructuring charges, which the company said will be "very significant."" From their last quarterly report (August 2004), it seems that they’ve had continued losses: http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1208069275&view=13213-0&Sta… To my way of thinking, an airline "that is doing quite well" is one that is able to pay its creditors. There are airlines who meet that criteria. Air Canada isn’t one of them.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ? For the same reasons your beloved Air Canada is in the shitter, JF. AC is doing quite well apparently. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well". Silly boy. Only in the airline industry in the US is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well".

That’s interesting. I’m not aware of any country where bankruptcy is a sign of doing "quite well".

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – AC is doing quite well apparently. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well". AC emerged from bankrupcy a few weeks ago. Whether it has made sufficient changes to its operations to raise its efficiency sufficiently is one question. But as of now, it is faily healthy, flush with new cash, new union contracts, order for some 100 baby jets, will outfit its long haul planes with in seat video units and can even afford to put colour on the tail of its planes. (but rest stays letterhead white). While in the USA, most analysts automatically equate legacy carriers with "in or close to bankrupcy", outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well. AC’s bankrupcy was definitely self inflicted. You say that "outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well." Then you say "AC’s bankrupcy was definitely self inflicted." Those are conflicting statements. You’re also wrong when you claim that "outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well." Here are some legacy carriers that are either extinct or soon will be. Alitalia. SAS. Swissair. Sabena. KLM, consumed by Air France.

Oh dear, what a terribly confused post. First you counter a claim that "outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well.", by mentioning some defunct airlines. Fine, if that’s the game you want to play, then Braniff, Pan Am, Eastern. So, that seems completely pointless, but if it makes you feel good, then it has some validity. Airlines come and go, all over the world. It is a healthy sign that brain-dead airlines such as SN and SR were put out of their misery, what a contrast to the slow agonizing demise of some US carriers. I don’t know which is the more pitiful to watch, UA and US or Yasser Arafat. Anyway, you continue your strange post by mentioning KLM and Air France, again as a counter to the claim that "outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well". KLM and Air France are both successful airlines, in world terms, very successful compared to the traditional US carriers. Part of the reason that they are successful is that they are forward-looking, they see how the industry is developing, and have reacted accordingly. This pragmatic approach, on the part of both carriers, has secured their future. KLM has known for some time that there is no long term future for secondary airlines with a global network, it was quite rightly decided that the best outlook was as part of a major carrier group. Air France, of course was only interested in taking on KLM because KL is in a healthy state. It is a perfect example of what airlines should be doing in order to survive, it is an example that the dinosaurs in the US should be imitating. Unfortunately they are stuck in the past, and can’t, or won’t, wake up to changes in the industry. –==++AJC++==–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – AC is doing quite well apparently. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well". AC emerged from bankrupcy a few weeks ago. Whether it has made sufficient changes to its operations to raise its efficiency sufficiently is one question. But as of now, it is faily healthy, flush with new cash, new union contracts, order for some 100 baby jets, will outfit its long haul planes with in seat video units and can even afford to put colour on the tail of its planes. (but rest stays letterhead white). While in the USA, most analysts automatically equate legacy carriers with "in or close to bankrupcy", outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well. AC’s bankrupcy was definitely self inflicted.

You say that "outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well." Then you say "AC’s bankrupcy was definitely self inflicted." Those are conflicting statements. You’re also wrong when you claim that "outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well." Here are some legacy carriers that are either extinct or soon will be. Alitalia. SAS. Swissair. Sabena. KLM, consumed by Air France. BA was able to cut 3 billion in costs without requiring bankrupcy. In fact, they cut so much that they were caugh with issuficient staff at LHR to handle growing traffic.

That’s great, JF. I’m glad that BA is able to continue as a business.

Response:

Air Canada has since left creditor protection and is projecting an operating profit of almost a quarter billion dollars for the third quarter. http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2004/10/15/aircanada_041015… James, from the second sentence of that article: "ACE Aviation Holdings Inc. said the operating profit figures do not include reorganization and restructuring charges, which the company said will be "very significant.""

Yes, typical of reorganization, but a one-time only charge. From their last quarterly report (August 2004), it seems that they’ve had continued losses: http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1208069275&view=13213-0&Sta…

Their projection is for strong operating profits for the third quarter, with month-to-month traffic up almost 8 percent, and costs under control.  When all is taken into consideration, they are doing well, unlike US Airways, which is still in trouble even after reorganization, and United, which is still struggling to redefine itself.  Even the stock market is happy, with shares in the new holding company steadily rising over the last month. To my way of thinking, an airline "that is doing quite well" is one that is able to pay its creditors. There are airlines who meet that criteria. Air Canada isn’t one of them.

AC is able to pay its creditors after reorg., and traffic is strong. That is why they appear to be doing well. The reorg is history now. Do you still criticize Continental after several reorganizations behind them, now that they appear to be stable?

Response:

If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ? Aeroflot Profit Up Despite Fuel Costs  November 6, 2004  Russian flag carrier Aeroflot raised net profit by 17.9 percent to USD$119.3 million in the first nine months of 2004, it said on Friday, but noted a substantial  rise in costs due to high fuel prices.  The company had previously warned ticket sales might fall after bomb attacks brought down two planes belonging to other Russian airlines in August, killing 90  people, but the figures did not reflect any substantial negative effect.  The Aeroflot statement did not make it clear what accounting standards the numbers were calculated to, but Interfax news agency said they were to Russian  Accounting Standards.  State-backed Aeroflot said costs in the period were about USD$1.3 billion — a 22.4 percent rise from the same year-ago period. "An increase in operational work and a 26 percent rise in fuel prices were mainly behind higher costs," it said. Aeroflot said it carried about 5.3 million passengers in January-September, a17.7 percent rise year-on-year. Sales rose about 23 percent to USD$1.4 billion in the period. The statement confirmed earlier media reports that Viktor Ivanov, a close aide toPresident Vladimir Putin, had been elected chairman of Aeroflot’s board ofdirectors.

Response:

If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ?

No unions, no expensive foreign oil, no competition, no government regulation, no lawsuits… Matt

Response:

If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ? No unions, no expensive foreign oil, no competition, no government regulation, no lawsuits…

Oil is a commodity. Doesn’t the price of domestic oil increase when the worldwide price of oil increases? The Russian oil companies aren’t restricted to selling oil to Russian companies.

Response:

If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ?

For the same reasons your beloved Air Canada is in the shitter, JF.

Response:

If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ? For the same reasons your beloved Air Canada is in the shitter, JF.

AC is doing quite well apparently.

Response:

If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ? For the same reasons your beloved Air Canada is in the shitter, JF. AC is doing quite well apparently.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well".

Response:

AC is doing quite well apparently. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well".

AC emerged from bankrupcy a few weeks ago. Whether it has made sufficient changes to its operations to raise its efficiency sufficiently is one question. But as of now, it is faily healthy, flush with new cash, new union contracts, order for some 100 baby jets, will outfit its long haul planes with in seat video units and can even afford to put colour on the tail of its planes. (but rest stays letterhead white). While in the USA, most analysts automatically equate legacy carriers with "in or close to bankrupcy", outside the USA, legacy carriers are doing quite well. AC’s bankrupcy was definitely self inflicted. BA was able to cut 3 billion in costs without requiring bankrupcy. In fact, they cut so much that they were caugh with issuficient staff at LHR to handle growing traffic.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If Aeroflot can be profitable, how come US carriers are losing money left and right ? For the same reasons your beloved Air Canada is in the shitter, JF. AC is doing quite well apparently. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/04/01/aircan030401 Only in the airline industry is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well".

Silly boy. Only in the airline industry in the US is bankruptcy a sign of doing "quite well".   –==++AJC++==–

Response:

Question:

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:41:57 +0000 (UTC), "GB" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<ThisIsNotMyEmailAddr…@anywhere.intheuniverse> wrote: >"Andy Hall" <an…@hall.nospam> wrote in message >news:mlhc405pb3tsl4q0sifh981m8ae2crj4q5@4ax.com… >> >What are the reasons for limiting the pressure in this guy’s case? >> The only one that I have found in doing quite a lot of looking over >> the last few months is the potential effect of too high a pressure >> triggering the Hering Breuer reflex – i.e. the pressure receptors in >> the lungs signalling the brain that breathing is complete. >My guess is that this *is* the reason, and the doctor knows what he is doing >and just has not communicated terribly well. >Incidentally, I had regarded the effects of this reflex as being central >apneas – is that wrong? I appreciate that there may be other causes of >central apneas. >Regards >Geoff

This is *a* mechanism for causing central apnoeas because in effect the brain has been fooled into thinking that breathing is going on when it isn’t. As you say, though, there are a number of other causes which is why varying forms of treatment are indicated. In a recent article that I read: Continuous positive airway pressure therapy in sleep apnoea Anne A. L. HSU AND Constance LO Different forms were listed in three categories – hypercapnic (e.g. brainstem disease and obesity hypoventilation), non-hypercapnic (Cheyne-Stokes respiration), and  mixed (with obstructive). It describes Positive Pressure Ventilation as applicable to the first group and CPAP to the others listed.   There are other causes not listed where these are not suitable. As I have looked through loads of papers, it is a very common theme that CPAP treatment of all kinds should be undertaken carefully if the patient has any cardiac or respiratory problems (in addition to OSA). .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

"Andy Hall" <an…@hall.nospam> wrote in message

news:mlhc405pb3tsl4q0sifh981m8ae2crj4q5@4ax.com… > >What are the reasons for limiting the pressure in this guy’s case? > The only one that I have found in doing quite a lot of looking over > the last few months is the potential effect of too high a pressure > triggering the Hering Breuer reflex – i.e. the pressure receptors in > the lungs signalling the brain that breathing is complete.

My guess is that this *is* the reason, and the doctor knows what he is doing and just has not communicated terribly well. Incidentally, I had regarded the effects of this reflex as being central apneas – is that wrong? I appreciate that there may be other causes of central apneas. Regards Geoff

Response:

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:18:10 +0000 (UTC), "GB" <ThisIsNotMyEmailAddr…@anywhere.intheuniverse> wrote: >"Andy Hall" <an…@hall.nospam> wrote in message >news:8qeb401sukqq1e8a9tvc1h7koq7pp5ko4o@4ax.com… ><snip> >> Having the max pressure set to less than the default 20cm is a >> clinical decision >Agreed, but don’t you just hate this professional mystique?

Absolutely, and I won’t tolerate it from any of the so called "professions" – meaning doctors, accountants, lawyers, teachers, bank managers,..  anyone who can sign a passport photo. I didn’t spend a lot of time going into OSA etc. prior to diagnosis and treatment, but subsequently I have spent a great deal of time researching SDB conditions, their implications, treatment and the equipment used for treatment.   I’ve asked the doctor a lot of questions and gone into a lot of clinical detail with him.   I am fortunate that he is not of the old school of doctor knows best and information will confuse the patient.   Equally he doesn’t baffle with science or use TLAs if I haven’t already mentioned them.    I’ve been able to ask his opinion on clinical studies and get as much information as I want – I’m the limiting factor on that.. Having a scientific and an engineering background, I certainly want to know the reason for things, so I tend to look at references and studies and cross check them, rather than paying too much attention to isolated anecdotal stories.   On equipment vendor web sites I look at the clinician information and specification of products and not the patient glossy brochure that talks of how Fred from Adelaide has a wonderful experience with his Electrolux SuperPAP.     I’m very pleased for Fred, I really am, but it has no significance in the clinical or scientific sense so has zero effect on whether I buy the Electrolux or the Hoover. >What are the reasons for limiting the pressure in this guy’s case?

The only one that I have found in doing quite a lot of looking over the last few months is the potential effect of too high a pressure triggering the Hering Breuer reflex – i.e. the pressure receptors in the lungs signalling the brain that breathing is complete. If you do a Google search using keywords, Hering Breuer and CPAP it kicks up a lot of references. There are also issues which I haven’t looked at in great depth relating to SDBs when there are also heart problems.   There is information around on CPAP use where central apnoea is also present – eg http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1440-1843.2003.0… So there *could* be some specific reasons for pressure control outside the autotitrating algorithm, and in the absence of knowing what the doctor’s reason if any was, there’s no way to tell. >The OP is >clearly distressed about not being told what is going on.

Absolutely.    That is why getting accurate information about what has been happening is so important. ><snip> >> – that there is a genuine and informed medical reason as to why the >> pressure maximum in normal operation needs to be limited that is not >> clear based on what has been said. >The other reasons you listed were along the lines that the medic is an >idiot. There bloody well ought to be a genuine reason why the pressure is >being limited, and the doc ought to have taken the time to explain it to the >patient.

I completely agree. >> The correct course of action is to contact the existing doctor and if >> that is not a fruitful experience to find another. >Either the doctor is an idiot, or he knows what he is doing but has not >explained it properly and left the patient distressed as a result. Either >way, if the OP has a choice of doctors, he should exercise that choice.

Exactly. >Geoff

.andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

"Andy Hall" <an…@hall.nospam> wrote in message

news:8qeb401sukqq1e8a9tvc1h7koq7pp5ko4o@4ax.com… <snip> > Having the max pressure set to less than the default 20cm is a > clinical decision

Agreed, but don’t you just hate this professional mystique? What are the reasons for limiting the pressure in this guy’s case? The OP is clearly distressed about not being told what is going on. <snip> > – that there is a genuine and informed medical reason as to why the > pressure maximum in normal operation needs to be limited that is not > clear based on what has been said.

The other reasons you listed were along the lines that the medic is an idiot. There bloody well ought to be a genuine reason why the pressure is being limited, and the doc ought to have taken the time to explain it to the patient. > The correct course of action is to contact the existing doctor and if > that is not a fruitful experience to find another.

Either the doctor is an idiot, or he knows what he is doing but has not explained it properly and left the patient distressed as a result. Either way, if the OP has a choice of doctors, he should exercise that choice. Geoff

Response:

"rob" <bnj…@infionline.net> wrote in message

news:hyi1c.28679$W74.7611@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net… > Talk to your doctor about getting a prescription to buy the software.  The > software costs about $300.00 ?  You can then buy it on the internet.  Go to > www.cpap.com   The software will allow you to set the pressure range and to > print additional sleep data (nightly if you like.)  The machines pressure > range should not be set wide open.  You need a reasonable Max pressure > setting because their could be a malfunction and the pressure could go sky > high.  Use your sleep study pressure settings a a guide.  There should be a > difference of  4 to 5 pressures from high to low. > Ref : www.sleepnet.com/apnea39/message/651.html

Anyone else have problems accessing this message on sleepnet?

Response:

Easiest way to adjust is via the software. You need the software anyway since it tells you how well the machine is working and how much/when you have leaks. regards, eric pearson nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:11 GMT, "James Briggs" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<jbri…@optonline.net> wrote: >I have a ResMed auto spirit.  The first place I went gave me an autopap >after several months. When I I was first tested with the autopap it was run >at the widest possible settings and I felt great.  Then they narowed down >the setting from 8 to 10 and I was back to where I started.  I asked then to >run the machine wide open by they set it from 8 to 13 which was a little >better but was still not right. It seems they won’t let me have the setting >I need.  Please show me how to set the machine myself.

Response:

Talk to your doctor about getting a prescription to buy the software.  The software costs about $300.00 ?  You can then buy it on the internet.  Go to www.cpap.com   The software will allow you to set the pressure range and to print additional sleep data (nightly if you like.)  The machines pressure range should not be set wide open.  You need a reasonable Max pressure setting because their could be a malfunction and the pressure could go sky high.  Use your sleep study pressure settings a a guide.  There should be a difference of  4 to 5 pressures from high to low. Ref : www.sleepnet.com/apnea39/message/651.html "James Briggs" <jbri…@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:jG_0c.28440$5M6.6913933@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a ResMed auto spirit.  The first place I went gave me an autopap > after several months. When I I was first tested with the autopap it was run > at the widest possible settings and I felt great.  Then they narowed down > the setting from 8 to 10 and I was back to where I started.  I asked then to > run the machine wide open by they set it from 8 to 13 which was a little > better but was still not right. It seems they won’t let me have the setting > I need.  Please show me how to set the machine myself.

Response:

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:35:57 GMT, "rob" <bnj…@infionline.net> wrote: >Talk to your doctor about getting a prescription to buy the software.  The >software costs about $300.00 ?  You can then buy it on the internet.  Go to >www.cpap.com   The software will allow you to set the pressure range and to >print additional sleep data (nightly if you like.)  The machines pressure >range should not be set wide open.  

That’s not really the issue. >You need a reasonable Max pressure >setting because their could be a malfunction and the pressure could go sky >high.  

Having the max pressure set to less than the default 20cm is a clinical decision – it isn’t related to whether the machine might malfunction. There is a specific warning to the doctor in the manual, that in the unlikely event of a fault that the pressure could rise to a static pressure of 30cm and that if they believe that this could be a risk to a particular patient then the device should not be used. However, this is a generic disclaimer for any PAP machine in the sense that even if it is a fixed pressure, it could develop a fault that causes the motor to run at full speed. Since the pressure setting in any machine is an input to the software, then it is remotely possible that a hardware failure of some kind could cause the motor to run up to full and uncontrolled speed. Setting a pressure maximum would not stop that. In the past, I have designed similar motor control systems to those used in PAP devices and it is extremely unlikely that the motor would run up to full speed out of control.  A failure is much more likely to be that the thing stops. There is another effect that can happen with autotitrating machines, and to some extent with fixed pressure as well, which is that excessive mask leak causes the motor to run up in order to try and maintain the pressure.  In doing so, this increases the leak, more fan and so on.   However, this situation is easily detected by the flow generator and it will stop.  Then the patient is likely to wake up. >Use your sleep study pressure settings a a guide.  There should be a >difference of  4 to 5 pressures from high to low.

This is not the case at all.    The doctor should consider the sleep study results and recommend the settings, not the patient. It is far from true to say that a correct pressure range is 4-5cm from bottom to top – this depends on the patient. In my own case, for example, the minimum pressure used is around 7.5cm and short term peaks can be as high as 15cm – somewhat more than you suggest.    Setting a top limit of 12cm would not, for me, provide adequate treatment, so one really can’t generalise about this. In the OP’s case it is possible :- – that the clinic/doctor has simply not understood the results or the pressure settings required (which is concerning in itself) – that they are working under the idea that setting a maximum protects against machine failure (it doesn’t) – that they are playing a "safe" game because they think that setting a pressure as one might for a fixed pressure machine will be a "safe" option and they don’t really know how the equipment works. – that there is a genuine and informed medical reason as to why the pressure maximum in normal operation needs to be limited that is not clear based on what has been said. None of those scenarios suggest to me that it’s a good idea to just start arbitrarily messing around with the pressure settings without informed medical consultation first. The correct course of action is to contact the existing doctor and if that is not a fruitful experience to find another. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ref : www.sleepnet.com/apnea39/message/651.html >"James Briggs" <jbri…@optonline.net> wrote in message >news:jG_0c.28440$5M6.6913933@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net… >> I have a ResMed auto spirit.  The first place I went gave me an autopap >> after several months. When I I was first tested with the autopap it was >run >> at the widest possible settings and I felt great.  Then they narowed down >> the setting from 8 to 10 and I was back to where I started.  I asked then >to >> run the machine wide open by they set it from 8 to 13 which was a little >> better but was still not right. It seems they won’t let me have the >setting >> I need.  Please show me how to set the machine myself.

.andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:11 GMT, "James Briggs" <jbri…@optonline.net> wrote: >I have a ResMed auto spirit.  The first place I went gave me an autopap >after several months. When I I was first tested with the autopap it was run >at the widest possible settings and I felt great.  Then they narowed down >the setting from 8 to 10 and I was back to where I started.  I asked then to >run the machine wide open by they set it from 8 to 13 which was a little >better but was still not right. It seems they won’t let me have the setting >I need.  Please show me how to set the machine myself.

James, it would be very unwise to do this without clinical supervision…. .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

"James Briggs" <jbri…@optonline.net> > I need.  Please show me how to set the machine myself.

James, there may well be a reason for this – such as pressure-induced central apneas. I would strongly recommend sorting this out with your medic. FWIW, the clinical menu is accessed by holding down the right arrow button and the up/down arrow button at the same time for a few seconds. As I said, not recommended.

Response:

I have a ResMed auto spirit.  The first place I went gave me an autopap after several months. When I I was first tested with the autopap it was run at the widest possible settings and I felt great.  Then they narowed down the setting from 8 to 10 and I was back to where I started.  I asked then to run the machine wide open by they set it from 8 to 13 which was a little better but was still not right. It seems they won’t let me have the setting I need.  Please show me how to set the machine myself.

Response:

Question:

Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry.  The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k.  balances, life’s good.  but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account? Please help. cheers, Scot B

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry.  The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k.  balances, life’s good.  but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account? Please help. cheers,

did you actually build something for a customer?   If that’s the case the first entry would be debiting the checking account and crediting a revenue account.   Is the contstruction loan a "draw down" line of credit? Do you have an accountant for your company?   — because it sounds like you desperately need a real (not cyber) accountant.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry.  The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k.  balances, life’s good.  but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account?

Your narration does not make much sense… you say "a construction company" and "our construction loan" so we should assume you are NOT the construction company? If that is the case then why would you be crediting income and putting money into a checking account? If you are the construction company, why is it your construction loan? Unless you are a construction company working on your own project? Is that the case, you did some work yourself and got paid by the title company? And exactly what does "your title company account" mean? Are the proceeds of your construction loan in the possession of a title company and shown as an asset on your books? Then you would not debit and credit it to "zero it out".. you would only credit it to decrease it by the amount of the disbursement. Which MAY answer your question… you should credit the balance of the loan proceeds that the title company controls (decreasing the available balance) and debit the checking account for the check you received.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry.  The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k.  balances, life’s good.  but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account? Please help. cheers, Scot B

I could be wrong, but anytime I hear "loan from…" I think of A/P or N/P depending on the conditions of the loan. If this indeed a true loan in which the construction company pays interest on this loan then the correct application would be Cash (company chkg acct)       $10k        Notes Payable                            $10k Like I said, I could be wrong. Your information is a little confusing.

Response:

Question:

something here bothers you, please learn filtering using killfiles: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/abusive.html#killfile Also consider: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/anonpost.html Blessfully, in the face of the recent excessive crossposting spree, you posted just here in one newsgroup. Well done there. http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/crospost.html    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjcgi.html

Response:

Absolutely not.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ?

Response:

You have a second on that "absolutley not".

Response:

I vote him off the island Absolutely not.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ?

Response:

Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ?

Nope.  Ever hear of this new concept called freedom of speach?     To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address.     —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ?

The only thing that has been "exposed" is that there are too many people on here who have no tolerance for points of view other than their own and who are all too willing to engage in personal attacks and to impugn others’ motives. Please feel free to attack the software, if that is how you feel (and Intuit lately has certainly provided enough reasons to do so). But lay off the witchhunts and stop being so bloodyminded.

Response:

Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ? The only thing that has been "exposed" is that there are too many people on here who have no tolerance for points of view other than their own and who are all too willing to engage in personal attacks and to impugn others’ motives. Please feel free to attack the software, if that is how you feel (and Intuit lately has certainly provided enough reasons to do so). But lay off the witchhunts and stop being so bloodyminded.

My apologies to this group (but not to the fellow I was responding to). His message actually made me believe I had read it on the Quicken newsgroup, not the Accounting group, so when I hit "Reply Group"… There are certainly a small percentage of such people on here, as on almost any group, but on the Quicken group, there has been a feeding frenzy with many participants that has been going on for quite some time now. When I saw "Mike’s" message, I just wanted to respond.

Response:

Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ?3

Sir: If you do not like the gentleman’s posting try the following in internet explorer:     Message     Block Sender. This will insure that you never have to read any of his posting ever again. Personally, everyone has a right to post what they think, … I also have a right to insure that I do not have to read such trivia. — Regards, Mark X Rigotti

Response:

Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ?

Response:

No one cares guys.  Just drop the issue. You either like Intuit products. Or you don’t. You’re either Democrat. Or you’re not. For better or worse, people (lots of people) use Intuit products.  Those people need our help not only setting up and running those products, but in other areas of managing their business and accounting functions.  From time to time, Mike has (as we all do) good information to help people with their program related problems. Besides, this isn’t a club where we can revoke someone’s membership and change the locks on the gates.  It’s a public forum, open to all.  If you don’t like someone, set your filter to ignore them and you’ll never see their posts. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia

Response:

Just block (pardon the pun!) his posts. — Ken Russell Sydney,  Australia

| Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is | asked to leave this newsgroup ? — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ?

you can ask but given mike block’s persistance I doubt he will leave voluntarily, maybe by force if necessary,  (sound familiar?)

Response:

Since Mike Block has been exposed as a shill, is it time that he is asked to leave this newsgroup ? you can ask but given mike block’s persistance I doubt he will leave voluntarily, maybe by force if necessary,  (sound familiar?)

Has anyone searched his home for weapons of Mass Destruction lately? — If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne rate me http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html I’m sorry Dave, I can’t let you do that. Why don’t you lie down and take a stress pill?

Response:

Question:

:THIS *DOES* WORK.  PERIOD.  END OF DISCUSSION. :Turn $7 into $7000 … or more!!! according to the probable source, as given by http://spamcop.net/ to    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Timo’s  FAQ  materials  at   http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html

Response:

THIS *DOES* WORK.  PERIOD.  END OF DISCUSSION. Turn $7 into $7000 … or more!!! This is NOT a CUT and COPIED Article like all the others!!  This Is a LEGITIMATE FIRST HAND ACCOUNT! I ran across this article about two years ago, and like the majority of the people who read it, I got excited for a few minutes, but then quickly convinced myself that it wouldn’t/couldn’t work.  I was browsing through a few of my favorite newsgroups, just like you are now, and came accross an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars in weeks with just an initial investment of $7.00 – That’s SEVEN BUCKS!  I quickly read on and made my plans to do what it said, but after a couple of days of putting it off I completely forgot about it. Then a couple of months ago, I ran across a print I had made of the instructions.  I was tight on money at the time and $7.00 didn’t seem like too big of a wager…"even if it WAS a scam".  So two years after I first saw the article I finally tried it out.  I set my hopes low, not really expecting much, and after a week and a half I was convinced I’d been had.  My total inflow of cash was only $38.00.  I thought to myself "Well, at least you got your $7.00 back plus some. ", and I went about having a good extended weekend.  You can imagine my surprise when I checked the mail the following Thursday to find my mailbox crammed full, and a note from the mail-man telling me I had more at the post office!!!  I was FLOORED!!!  I counted everything in the mailbox and came up with $168.00, and was happy!…but THEN I WENT TO THE POST OFFICE.  They had to put all the mail in TWO BOXES!!  The total came to $1,684.00!!!  All in a matter of two weeks from the time I posted! WAIT!!!!, you think that’s good?  Wait till you hear the rest!  After those two boxes, I returned to the post office 6 more times to pick up a total of 13 more boxes!! finally things started settling down, but before it was all over I’d collected over $10,400.00!!!  Then the guilt started in: Was this Moral?  Was it legal?  I was worried, so I did a little research. (yes, yes, I know I probably should have checked FIRST, but…) First I called the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it was indeed COMPLETELY LEGAL!!  The money is for a service (explained in the instructions) so there was absolutely nothing shady about the deal!  Then I called the family lawyer.  He too assured me that there was nothing illegal about it as long as there was a service provided for the money sent!  He said the important part was to actually do EXACTLY as the article said.  He said if I failed to invest the initial $7.00 then I could have problems legally, but as long as I did everything listed that I should have no problem!!  So without further ado, here are the instructions which MUST BE FOLLOWED EXACTLY!!!  These are cut and pasted so that I don’t get them wrong.  Also, you may want to print out a copy of this so you’ll have it to refer to! : IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is NOT : illegal; and it is 99% no risk – it really works! : If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive : extraordinary dividends. : : PLEASE NOTE: : Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be : yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of : the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its : success by carefully adhering to the instructions. : : : : IMPORTANT !*! IMPORTANT !*! IMPORTANT !*! IMPORTANT : How it Works: : YOU WILL NOW BECOME PART OF THE MAIL ORDER BUSINESS. In this business : your product is not solid or tangible; instead, it’s a service. You are : in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large corporations : are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However, the money made : from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is made from : people like you and I asking to be included in that list. : Here are the 4 easy steps to success: : :

Question:

Hello.  In my sales position we figure magins by dividing the cost of goods by the inverse of the margin you want.  For example, if the cost of an item is 1, to figure a 30% margin you would divide the cost by 70, the inverse of .30.  This is how I was taught to do it, but is this a true 30% margin?  Or is it actually padded a little bit?  How would you figure the margin when you have the selling price, the cost, and the margin?  For example: help me backwards engineer the equation. According to our accounting software, items (200pcs) that sold for a total of $14, with a combined cost of $1.36, brought in a profit of $12.64 and a profit margin of 90%.  How can I figure the profit margin percentage when given the cost and selling price?  Thanks!

Response:

Troy – enter the cost and divide by the sales amount.  This produces the calculation for the cost percentage.  The inverse of this number will be the profit %.  In your example:  1.36 / 14.00 = .10.  The profit % is then 90%. DeeDee Heyne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  In my sales position we figure magins by dividing the cost of goods by the inverse of the margin you want.  For example, if the cost of an item is 1, to figure a 30% margin you would divide the cost by 70, the inverse of .30.  This is how I was taught to do it, but is this a true 30% margin?  Or is it actually padded a little bit?  How would you figure the margin when you have the selling price, the cost, and the margin?  For example: help me backwards engineer the equation. According to our accounting software, items (200pcs) that sold for a total of $14, with a combined cost of $1.36, brought in a profit of $12.64 and a profit margin of 90%.  How can I figure the profit margin percentage when given the cost and selling price?  Thanks!

  dbhent.vcf

1K Download

Response:

I hope this is what you are looking for.  This is what I was taught. SP= Selling Price of widget COGS=Cost of Goods Sold (i.e cost of widget) GP=Gross Profit Margin GP%=Gross Profit  Percentage(or Gross Margin percentage) SP – COGS = GP   GP is what you have left to cover your Fixed Costs. GP / SP = GP% In your example you said your sales were $14 and Cost of Goods Sold = $1.36 and your Gross Profit  was $12.64, so your Gross Profit Percentage was 12.64 / 14.00 = 90.29%.   This is not your Profit Margin. It looks as though the percentage that you were given was the Gross Profit Percentage and not the Profit Margin Percentage. Now, if you wish to figure out your Profit Margin you take your Net Income and divide by Sales. NI/ Sales = Profit Margin. Of course, to get to your NI you need to take sales – COGS – Other Expenses. I hope this helped clarify the question you had. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  In my sales position we figure magins by dividing the cost of goods by the inverse of the margin you want.  For example, if the cost of an item is 1, to figure a 30% margin you would divide the cost by 70, the inverse of .30.  This is how I was taught to do it, but is this a true 30% margin?  Or is it actually padded a little bit?  How would you figure the margin when you have the selling price, the cost, and the margin?  For example: help me backwards engineer the equation. According to our accounting software, items (200pcs) that sold for a total of $14, with a combined cost of $1.36, brought in a profit of $12.64 and a profit margin of 90%.  How can I figure the profit margin percentage when given the cost and selling price?  Thanks!

Response:

Everyone’s right.  It depends on the definition in force.  Same is true for other ratios, such as "inventory turns."  We’ve found five definitions for inventory turns, with three in realtively common usage.  There’s no authoritative standard, therefore, it is tough to compare company to company unless you can start with the raw numbers.  Same is true for "profit margin."  You can go on for years thinking "profit margin" (simply "margin" in many companies as you’re using it) is one thing and your boss may have a different mental calculation.  Its relatively simple to resolve in you case, far more complicated when you’re trying to decide what to inclue in "cost of goods." Within a given company, I urge you to develop what we call "E" or explanation sheets, AKA "standards".  An "E" sheet for "profit margin" will explain how it is to be calculated within your company.  Notes may explain how it might be calculated in another company, so people understand the semantic problems.  "E" sheets are the only way to bring consistency over time, but people will still argue "this is the way I was taught." Wins Burke

Response:

Just subtract the cost from the selling price and divide the result by the selling price.  That will give you the GM (Gross Margin) on the sale.  A lot of people confuse Markup with Gross Margin (Profit). They are two distinctly different things.

Response:

Question:

     This is an experiment.  I want to see how much money I could raise if everyone who read this post sent me a dollar.  If you are interested in this little experiment then send one U.S dollar to Raymond Frost box 447 reeders PA 18352 Thank you for your time.

Response:

    This is an experiment.  I want to see how much money I could raise if everyone who read this post sent me a dollar.  If you are interested in this little experiment then send one U.S dollar to Raymond Frost box 447 reeders PA 18352 Thank you for your time.

        Here is a cheaper experiment. Everyone who reads this should post a follow-up message saying what an idiot Raymond is. "Men are equal; it is not birth but virtue  that makes the difference."                            Voltaire      

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     This is an experiment.  I want to see how much money I could raise if everyone who read this post sent me a dollar.  If you are interested in this little experiment then send one U.S dollar to Raymond Frost box 447 reeders PA 18352    Here is a cheaper experiment. Everyone who reads this should post a follow-up message saying what an idiot Raymond is.

Raymond you are an idiot whose dejanews account will be canceled. Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A. 954-566-7540, fax 7541 QuickBooks Prof. Advisor & Official #1 QB 6 Top Tester   biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news    275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33334

Response:

Question:

Aust Accounting Std said profit from construction should be booked on a percentage completion. The percentage completed can be calculated on a actual to est total cost basis (that is what I am using) The estimated cost to complete can be obtain from BOQ or actual cost incurred plus engineer’s estimated cost to complete. How can I be sure the engineer’s estimated cost is reasonable. Is there any other methods that can be used to determine the percentage of completion other that physical verfication and invoicing method. Is there any good books about project management I can get my hands on

Response:

You do not say whether the engineer is a thrid party. If so, I would rely on what he says. Otherwise, you should at any progress payments being made in line with the estimates. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aust Accounting Std said profit from construction should be booked on a percentage completion. The percentage completed can be calculated on a actual to est total cost basis (that is what I am using) The estimated cost to complete can be obtain from BOQ or actual cost incurred plus engineer’s estimated cost to complete. How can I be sure the engineer’s estimated cost is reasonable. Is there any other methods that can be used to determine the percentage of completion other that physical verfication and invoicing method. Is there any good books about project management I can get my hands on

Response:

I was reading your post, and I was wondering, what do you mean by third party? Who would be the second party? Thanks, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You do not say whether the engineer is a thrid party. If so, I would rely on what he says. Otherwise, you should at any progress payments being made in line with the estimates. Aust Accounting Std said profit from construction should be booked on a percentage completion. The percentage completed can be calculated on a actual to est total cost basis (that is what I am using) The estimated cost to complete can be obtain from BOQ or actual cost incurred plus engineer’s estimated cost to complete. How can I be sure the engineer’s estimated cost is reasonable. Is there any other methods that can be used to determine the percentage of completion other that physical verfication and invoicing method. Is there any good books about project management I can get my hands on

Response:

Question:

Been there. Done that. Circumstances slightly different. Just as dumb. :{)Jim It’s an awesume responsibility being stupid!

Response:

By popular demand, we again drop in on the now famous, low time pilot. The last time we saw him, he had just evaded yet another crash into the darkness due to a lack of fuel system awareness. Some time has passed and he has been flying his AA-1 most vigorously, racking up over 100 hrs in it in just six months. Having about 200 hrs total time now, with over half of it in this airplane, he has entered the "invicible stage" in his piloting career. That’s the one where he is competant enough to fly himself into many a situation that he doesn’t have the wisdom or experience yet to fly himself back out of. The following is a brief accounting of one of those situations. On a Sunday flight out to the ocean beaches, "Low Time" and his trusty co-pilot "Half Pint", find themselves enjoying an unseasonably warm and sunny day in the middle of what would normally be a wet and dreary Pacific Northwest winter. They had departed with less than full fuel, and the plan was to fill up on the way back from the coast, in Astoria. Though they had never actually refueled in Astoria before, they had landed there a few times, and found it to be a large multi-strip airport, which seemd to have plenty of facilities. During the pre-flight planning process, the "little black book" showed it to indeed have all sorts of fuel available, so it was included in the flight plan. The other small strips along the coast in that area didn’t have any fuel, hence the careful planning regarding a return refueling stop. All of the usual ground antics involving these two flyers took place that day, including the flying of kites at Seaside, a trip to the salt water taffy store, a visit to the future site of a home for a famous whale, some carousel rides, and much to much candy and ice-cream. As with all good things, the day was coming to an end and Low Time wanted to get back before he had to navigate the hills between the coast and the inland metropolitan area, in the dark. They piled into their trusty Yankee steed, and after letting out their seatbelts out a bit to get them buckled, they were ready to roll. After departing, it was just a 5 minute hop to the Astoria fuel pump. One of those deals where you takeoff, make a jog or two, and then get lined up for a straight in to the next runway. The sun was on it’s way down, and he was glad they had left when they did as it looked like a few clouds were starting to appear behind them. They made the landing, and headed over to what appeared to be the only gas pumps on the field. The place was a ghost town. Not a soul in site on the whole field. Nothing nowhere. As they neared the pumps, it became obvious that the place was closed and their hopes of refueling had been dashed. Shutting off the engine and coasting up to the locked pumps, Low Time pulled out the airport guide and the chart and started looking for another place to get some gas, while Half Pint started asking questions. "Are they closed", she asked? "Looks like it", he replied. "But where are we going to get gas?" "Not sure yet." "Do we have enough to get back home?" "Nope, we’re already pretty low and almost into our 30 minute reserve." "Do we have to stay here tonight?" "I have school in  the morning you know" she said, already sounding like somebody’s mother, even at the age of 6. Pondering the thought of staying in Astoria for the night, Low Time looked around a little and things were starting to look pretty grim. With weather closing in behind them, darkness on the way, and obligation of school in the morning, the first twinges of "get home itis" were starting to set in. The closest "real" airport on the chart was Hoquium. It was directly to the north and although they would be landing without the required 30 minutes of reserve fuel on board, they would be able to make it OK, and skies were clear in that direction. If they did go that way though, and there was no fuel there either, they would have shot their only chance, and would have to stay there for the night for sure, because there is just nothing else around there. Thoughts of trying to find a place to stay for the night in Hoquium were pretty dismal, and just about as grim as staying right where they were, in Astoria. Besides that, they wanted to go to the east to get back home. What did lie to the east? Some hills to get over, and a bunch of little airstrips that also have no fuel, or at least no fuel on a Sunday evening. There was Elma. "We could make that", he thought. But then visions of that little run down airport with a stinky but good little cafe, and a fuel pump that usually had a sign that said "out of service" hanging on it came to mind, and crushed his hopes of getting anything there, except a cold while sleeping in the plane. He started to look around in the plane to see what the blanket situation was like, and it was grim as well. It was going to get plenty cold that night, and since they had planned to be back before dark, they hadn’t really come prepared for camping out in the airplane. [they should have just parked it at this point, and called for a cab, gone to whatever hotel there was - even with cockroaches - and spent the night there on Mr. Visa] What else was to the east? Well, way out there, and pretty close to the flight path we would take to get home anyway, there is always Olympia. A pretty good size "real" airport that even has a tower, and two different FBO’s with fuel, with at least one of those being open late enough to have refueled in the dark there before. "Can we make it", he thought? Getting out the straight edge, the POH, and the calculator, he went to work trying to calculate their probable demise. "Let’s see." "To take the straight line we gotta climb pretty good initially to get over the first set of hills." "Then we can hold that altitude all the way to here, at which point we can make a 500 fpm decent to here, and from there get lined up for a glide to a landing if we had to". Does it sound like it would be too close? Why chance it? What was it that was so bad about staying there for the night? So what about the little one missing a day of school. And why would anyone want to risk not only their own life, but their whole family’s life as well? Is "get home itis" that powerful? He had read about "get home itis" before in the various flying magazines and been warned by his primary instructor about it, but he always thought "how absurd, that would never happen to me". The other factor working here was the fact that he really thought they could make it to the destination airport. He had calculated it very carefully, and confirmed the calculations with a "does this seem right" angle, based on quite a bit of recent flying experience in this same airplane. He knew the airplane pretty well, and had used it mostly for cross country flights of full tank leg distances, and he knew pretty much exactly what it would take to make the hop to Olympia. The biggest unknowm was; "exactly how much fuel do I have onboard?" [There is a reason for the 30 and 45 minute reserve rules. They are there so that you never have to know to the drop how much fuel you have. They give you a margin of error. A much needed one in this case.] He knew that when he left he was slightly under full, but how much under? He pulled out his log book and had a look at it. It showed about 30 minutes of flight from the point where he filled up, to the point where he landed and where they had left from initially that day. Then he calculated where they had gone that day and the flight times, and then checked all that against what the fuel sight tubes actually said. It all seemd to jive about down to the penny… which is too close when it comes to fuel and flying over rough terrain. He had made up his mind, and they were going to give it a shot. He took out a pen and circled all of the little private fields along the flight path, just in case. He extended VOR lines to them so he could use that to better identify them as he flew. He double checked his power settings chart to figure out what rpm was going to give him the best gas milage. He fired it up, and off they went. [What... are we going into battle here or something? Do you have to save the world tonight? Are we taking the President to the nuclear fall out shelter before the bombs hit? What's the big godamn emergency? Stop, turn back, get out the Visa card and spend the night on the ocean coast!] They departed with the flat angle climbout one would use in a race. Aiming the angle with just enough climb to clear the first set of hills. They were already out over water, the mouth of the Columbia River, and visions of other "emergency situations" in the past were entering the pilots mind. He was already using a somewhat reduced power setting to conserve a little even while climbing, and the little bird, being lightly loaded, was performing well. Half Pint, in all of her worldly wisdom, was monitioring the fuel sight tubes and barking out the fuel status report about every 10 seconds it seemed, while Low Time held a dead straight course, monitored their position on the chart and identified the small "farm airfields" as they went. They had cleared the first set of hills, and had leveled off while going to their reduced power "maximum range" cruise setting. At that point he switched tanks to make sure they were both working like they were when they departed, and then switched to the lowest tank, with the plan being to run it all the way dry. Half Pint was watching intently as her’s was the lower tank. Low Time looked over and said, "we’ll have to run your tank dry, then switch over to mine". She got a scared look on her face giving the impression that maybe if "her tank" went dry, her half of the airplane would fall down or something. Low Time reassured her that "everything would be fime", but nobody in the plane that night really believed a word of it. As the engine sputtered and tried to quit, he hit the boost pump and … read more »

Response:

Question:

It is a well know fact that the people at TC who wrote this are now employed by the arch fiend Tony Knight and at the NYSDEC, which as we all know are simply liars… LIARS I SAY, as are those writers, labs, etc., because they haven’t gone ot to the range with me n’ old Ern, and shot our smokepoles because Ern and I can bust up them there water jugs so hard you just know the ball is so powerful and the sabot isn’t traditional so you just know it isn’t good and why do they have to lie so much and why OH WHY did they want my strawberries (obscure movie reference) I just know they were all after my strawberries…….where am I, who are all these people STARING at me? Why do you have that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -END OF T/C INFORMATION Now my take on this. All these tests were pre fast twist and saboted bullets. T/C used the same bullets (roundballs) and charge (70 grains FFG). That is apples and apples. T/C has a chart showing barrel length (bullet travel in inches) and velocities/pressures. As best that I can tell scaling the chart the 28 inch barrel would gain you 50 F.P.S. over the Knight s 24 inch barrel (1775 F.P.S.). Not very significant is it? Fred s magical 32 inch gets 1875 F.P.S. The muzzle velocity chart line gets VERY flat after the 28 inch length. More barrel length isn t all that much better. More powder does burn. Again, consider that all these tests were conducted pre fast twist and saboted bullets. Food for thought – - – Woody Williams If you re too busy to hunt, you re too busy.

Response:

and shot our smokepoles because Ern and I can bust up them there water jugs so hard you just know the ball is so powerful and the sabot isn’t traditional so you just know it isn’t good and why do they have to lie so much and why OH WHY did they want my strawberries (obscure movie reference) I just know they were all after my strawberries…….where

Not so obscure when you deal with these types day in and day out. In fact required reading where I work. Capt’n Queeg of the Caine Mutiny. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -am I, who are all these people STARING at me? Why do you have that

Response:

All, In looking through some old papers I ran across my manual for my Thompson Center Hawken.. They have some very interesting information on loads and  velocities and BARREL LENGTHS. One that really stuck out was the section on barrel length. Keep in mind this  was printed way before the 24 inch in-lines by Knight were introduced. The fellow  that did their testing was Mr. Ed Yard of Experimental Ballistics Associates. WORD FOR WORD PER THOMPSON CENTER – - – Mr. Yard s tests were conducted using components from the same lot. ROUND BALLS and charges were carefully weighed to insure exactness and all components were  acclimated to room temperature. Loading was done with care to provide as much consistency  as possible, and the gun and barrel were cleaned after each shot. A ten shot string was fired  with each charge and individual results were added and averaged to determine an average  pressure and velocity for each (10 shot) test. High and low variations were recorded. Tests  were conducted using DuPont powders in increments ranging from 65 to 125 grains in both the .45  and .50 caliber Hawken barrels. During the tests the following observations were made. 1) It has often been claimed that it is impossible to overload a firearm using  black powder. The theory being that only a certain portion of a heavy black powder charge will  burn and the remaining powder is blown out of the bore in unburned condition. Thus it was  assumed that the pressures created by a black powder charge would reach a certain (undetermined)  range and climb no higher.         Tests conducted by Mr. Yard indicate that this theory is unfounded.  Throughout our testing, increases in the powder charges did increase the pressure reading.  As heavier and heavier charges were loaded the pressures climbed accordingly. At no time  was there any indication of  a leveling off of pressure. Unreasonably heavy charges of  black powder can be dangerous. 2) As stated before, a propellant powder (depending upon it s design and  composition) will function most efficiently at a specific pressure range. Testing indicated that  the black powder used (in T/C production barrels) operated most efficiently in or near 7000 psi  range. In other words, charges of approximately 70 grains of powder recorded the highest  velocity in relation to lowest pressure. Heavier loads showed marked increase in pressure for only  minor gains in velocity. Equally, the loads tested in this optimum range were far more  consistent (less shot to shot variation) than the heavier charges. Those interested in accuracy should  pay heed! 3) Optimum barrel length is a question that concerns all firearm manufacturers.  To determine the most efficient length for the Hawken barrel, a series of tests were  conducted. Beginning with a 38 inch barrel, a series of barrel lengths were tested. The test barrel was  trimmed back ( a few inched at a time) to detect and record losses in velocity which occurred as the  barrel was shortened. The 26 inches of bullet travel attained in a 28 inch barrel (length of charge  accounting for the additional 2 inches) proved to be the most appropriate. The particular load used  in this test (70 Grains FFG DuPont) chronograph at 1825 F.P.S. in the 28 inch barrel and 1905  F.P.S. in the 36 inch barrel. Such minimal increases in velocity (only 80 F.P.S.) could  hardly justify an extra 8 inches of barrel. This is particularly true when you consider that  improved velocity and energy may be obtained in the 28 inch barrel by a simple load adjustment. END OF T/C INFORMATION Now my take on this. All these tests were pre fast twist and saboted bullets.  T/C used the same bullets (roundballs) and charge (70 grains FFG). That is apples and apples. T/C  has a chart showing barrel length (bullet travel in inches) and velocities/pressures. As  best that I can tell scaling the chart the 28 inch barrel would gain you 50 F.P.S. over the Knight s  24 inch barrel (1775 F.P.S.). Not very significant is it? Fred s magical 32 inch gets 1875  F.P.S. The muzzle velocity chart line gets VERY flat after the 28 inch length. More barrel length isn t all that much better. More powder does burn. Again, consider that all these tests were conducted pre fast twist and saboted  bullets. Food for thought – - – Woody Williams If you re too busy to hunt, you re too busy.

Response: