Accounting Talk » Accounting » anyone who enroll ASCPA?
Dear all, I have problem that I don’t know I will join ASCPA or AICPA. Anyone give me suggestion? Thanks a lot. — Alice Yeung —
So what is your problem? I don’t think we can give any answer until we know what you think the problem is. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation
Maybe you should goto http://www.icered.com/forum/mainforum.asp?ForumID=33&location=000&id=… This is accounting forum for Hong Kong and Asians.
Accounting Talk » Business Accounting » Publicizing Wyndham Rose Hall Jamaica Dishonesty
In addition to epinions, where is a good place to get word out on on truly dishonest and unresponsive conduct by a resort and some of its accounting staff? – in this case the Wyndham Rose Hall resort in Montego Bay, Jamaica. (my account below). Thanks —- Six months ago I was there for a week of business conference, and haven’t been there before or since. This month a phone charge (about 40USD) appeared on my AMEX account for a call I obviously didn’t make (to somewhere in New Jersey). This doesn’t happen by accident. Now I have to either change my AMEX account or vigilantly scan my bill every month to ensure more charges do not appear. This is not my only experience to report. While there a business associate left a package for me at the desk (two bottles of liquor). Of course it was nowhere to be found when I went to pick it up. Then upon checkout I found many extra and redundant charges. I barely had enough time to argue, have them removed, and make it to the airport on time. Staying at the Wyndham Rose Hall in Montego Bay, Jamaica was by far the worst hospitality experience of my life, and the effects are still coming to my AMEX account. By the way, I called them to ask how the phone charge happened. They said to send a fax, and someone would get back to me and explain. I did so just out of curiosity, but of course no response at all. After the bogus phone charge, stolen liquor, extra/redundant charges, and lack of response on this inquiry, I wonder if there is an honest person working at the place. If anyone doubts my claim of dishonest phone charge, I can email a scanned copy of the bill.
It depends how hell bent you are on getting the word out. Why not register a domain name (wyndhamsucks, wyndhamlies.com etc) and put your report up there? You could put your bill, your transcripts etc. Emailing them the site address might push things along a little bit.
It’s not a crusade and I certainly don’t have that much time. Re emailing them the site, I couldn’t even get them to respond to my inquiry on bogus phone charge. I don’t expect them to respond as a better managed property would. But a few posts on sites could alert other visitors.
It depends how hell bent you are on getting the word out. Why not register a domain name (wyndhamsucks, wyndhamlies.com etc) and put your report up there? You could put your bill, your transcripts etc. Emailing them the site address might push things along a little bit.
The Southern Region Chapter of the American Sociaty of Travel Agents (ASTA) just completed their conference there, haven’t heard of complaints…
I do not suggest every person or group has experiences like mine, nor do I think my experiences were isolated incidents. Also I would suspect they would be on their best behavior with such a group, no?
The Southern Region Chapter of the American Sociaty of Travel Agents (ASTA) just completed their conference there, haven’t heard of complaints…
Welcome to Jamaica Mon ! We fix problem soon mon! No problem mon!
Accounting Talk » Accounting » And the Dork of the year award goes to:
see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow the links once you are there… — "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to benefit others." – Nagarjuna pd http://www.virtualitystudios.com http://www.peterduncan.net
Hmmm. I did go there, because I figured I must at least have been on your list of candidates. Relieved to see it is not me, but disappointed to see another display of the condition of humanity in 2002. There are some sad stories out there…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow the links once you are there… — "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to benefit others." – Nagarjuna pd http://www.virtualitystudios.com http://www.peterduncan.net
Ancient Chinese proverb: "Man with annoying 23-line usenet .signature have no place calling others ‘dork.’" *grin* Sorry, couldn’t resist PD. Trim that signature. It’s usually longer than any new text you put in a post. http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/signatur.html Cheers, Todd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow the links once you are there… — "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to benefit others." – Nagarjuna pd http://www.virtualitystudios.com http://www.peterduncan.net
– — Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/
see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow the links once you are there…
Oww.. so it isn’t me? And I even dared to critisize you 
Greetz, RS
Nah man, the crap this guy has spewed even dwarfs the sum total of all the flame wars we have had here. Def. the dork of the year. — "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to benefit others." – Nagarjuna pd http://www.virtualitystudios.com http://www.peterduncan.net
:
: see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow : the links once you are there… : : Oww.. so it isn’t me? And I even dared to critisize you : : Greetz, : : RS : :
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ancient Chinese proverb: "Man with annoying 23-line usenet .signature have no place calling others ‘dork.’" *grin* Sorry, couldn’t resist PD. Trim that signature. It’s usually longer than any new text you put in a post. http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/signatur.html Cheers, Todd
Todd, there are also enough newsgroups where your quoting behaviour would be critisised maarten
hey PD, i have to thank you for this. i was feeling a little alone out there against that idiot. nice touch. f
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow the links once you are there… — "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to benefit others." – Nagarjuna pd http://www.virtualitystudios.com http://www.peterduncan.net
oh, and i spoke with joe about this buffoon today. joe would have been more than happy to "fix" whatever the prob was…cover shipping too…20 YEARS HENCE!!! but, nooooo…..the guy had traded the bass away 2 years ago. MORE MEDS PLEASE! f
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow the links once you are there… — "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to benefit others." – Nagarjuna pd http://www.virtualitystudios.com http://www.peterduncan.net
I’ve never been to the Zon message board, until I followed PD’s link…..looks like it would be a nice place without that jerkoff!! Aloha, Jerry
It is… (RobZon5 is me) though it’s usually a lot slower 
— -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been to the Zon message board, until I followed PD’s link…..looks like it would be a nice place without that jerkoff!! Aloha, Jerry
it still is jerry. that guy is DUST! fred "still waiting to meet with my bodhisatva (sp?)" hodshon
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been to the Zon message board, until I followed PD’s link…..looks like it would be a nice place without that jerkoff!! Aloha, Jerry
that guy is DUST!
But even he can’t get you to post a clip of the lightwave? Adam
come hear me at 2002 NAMM!!!!!! f
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that guy is DUST! But even he can’t get you to post a clip of the lightwave? Adam
" Sorry, couldn’t resist PD. Trim that signature. It’s usually longer than any new text you put in a post. http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/signatur.html Cheers, Todd
First time I have seen a Timo Salmi Usenetiquette link outside of alt.accounting (where he posts them himself on several occasions)
That was the story I got too. Sad, really. BTW: Anytime man…:-) — "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to benefit others." – Nagarjuna pd http://www.virtualitystudios.com http://www.peterduncan.net
: oh, and i spoke with joe about this buffoon today. : : joe would have been more than happy to "fix" whatever the prob was…cover : shipping too…20 YEARS HENCE!!! : : but, nooooo…..the guy had traded the bass away 2 years ago. : : MORE MEDS PLEASE! : : f : :
: see http://www.peterduncan.net for the pd Dork of the Year award. Follow : the links once you are there… : : — : : : "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and : degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is : worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is : willing : to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is : a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept : so by the exertions of better men than himself." : : "Try to understand the true nature of things. Remember that the time of : death is uncertain. Think about the deeds that you do. Make efforts to : benefit others." – Nagarjuna : : : : pd : : http://www.virtualitystudios.com : http://www.peterduncan.net : : : : : : : : :
At least the guy plays a T-Bird…not quite sure what all the knobs on it do though! Pd…I read your definition of a "dork" on your website and it sure reminded me of someone else we all know around these parts to the letter: "Note how he treats other people, the sophomoric insults, and the general hatred for others that disagree with him. Bear in mind that this guy has made comments about OTHERS personal appearance…need I say more?" Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
LOL! You realize that "T-Bird" is the first Zon ever built? Really. Wish I could see you’re face right now. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At least the guy plays a T-Bird…not quite sure what all the knobs on it do though! Pd…I read your definition of a "dork" on your website and it sure reminded me of someone else we all know around these parts to the letter: "Note how he treats other people, the sophomoric insults, and the general hatred for others that disagree with him. Bear in mind that this guy has made comments about OTHERS personal appearance…need I say more?" Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
Hee hee hee…. Regards… Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At least the guy plays a T-Bird…not quite sure what all the knobs on it do though! Pd…I read your definition of a "dork" on your website and it sure reminded me of someone else we all know around these parts to the letter: "Note how he treats other people, the sophomoric insults, and the general hatred for others that disagree with him. Bear in mind that this guy has made comments about OTHERS personal appearance…need I say more?" Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
LOL! You realize that "T-Bird" is the first Zon ever built? Really. Wish I could see you’re face right now.
Ahhh I see said the blind man….Is that the one that was in the back page profile about Joe Zon last year ? Cool! Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At least the guy plays a T-Bird…not quite sure what all the knobs on it do though! Pd…I read your definition of a "dork" on your website and it sure reminded me of someone else we all know around these parts to the letter: "Note how he treats other people, the sophomoric insults, and the general hatred for others that disagree with him. Bear in mind that this guy has made comments about OTHERS personal appearance…need I say more?" Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
I was thinking the same thing. "Comments about OTHERS personal appearance"? I wonder if pd remembers the "ass" incident? The ancient proverb "It takes one to know one" comes to mind. Bud
Yes it is! — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL! You realize that "T-Bird" is the first Zon ever built? Really. Wish I could see you’re face right now. Ahhh I see said the blind man….Is that the one that was in the back page profile about Joe Zon last year ? Cool! Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
Yes it is!
What year/month of Bass Player was that in again? Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
figures come hear me at 2002 NAMM!!!!!!
yah…right around the corner from wisconsin Adam
April 2000, with Patitucci on the cover. (after the 3rd trip to the bookshelf, I spelt that right) — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes it is! What year/month of Bass Player was that in again? Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
April 2000, with Patitucci on the cover. (after the 3rd trip to the bookshelf, I spelt that right)
Ahhh yes…found it! Thanks! Very cool bass but then again Joe’s a very cool guy (and from Buffalo!). So what’s the deal with the guy on PD’s website? Is that a pic of JZ or is it of someone else who now owns that bass? I sure do miss Jim Robert’s back page luthier profiles…was the first thing I read every month! Steve "Dude" Barr Come check out "The Dude Pit" http://www.TheDudePit.com
Accounting Talk » Finance Accounting » Direct Cost question
Hi Jim, Thanks for the info…Fnu is Fun…My signature came from a bumpoer sticker i once saw…Pretty dumb i know.. Thanks again Yann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can a fixed cost be a direct cost? I can’t think of any reason why not. I have never read that Direct Costs have to be variable. Neither have I. — Dyslexics have more fnu! What is fnu? — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA
– Dyslexics have more fnu!
Can a fixed cost be a direct cost? For example, say I pay a consulant for 40 hours a week…This consultant is on the payroll and he/she can do consultantion, train, or web development. With the use of timesheets, I could allocate the wage expense to a direct cost account. Then these could be match with the revenue that was generated. Does this make sense? I have never read that Direct Costs have to be variable. Yann — Dyslexics have more fnu!
Dyslexics have more fnu!
All the dyslexics of the world: untie! — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa Perfesser’s nauseating puns: ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/ts/tspun22.zip
Good one!;-) Dyslexics have more fnu! All the dyslexics of the world: untie! — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa Perfesser’s nauseating puns: ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/ts/tspun22.zip
– Dyslexics have more fnu!
Can a fixed cost be a direct cost?
I can’t think of any reason why not. I have never read that Direct Costs have to be variable.
Neither have I. — Dyslexics have more fnu!
What is fnu? — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA
Accounting Talk » Business Accounting » Accounting for Dot.com companies?
I believe that in the US, as long as you’re a private concern, no one really cares how funny your books are. But try doing this as a publicly traded company and the SEC will come down on you so hard you wouldn’t know how the government can take away your life savings as fines/penalties so fast. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, Anyone has experienced in doing accounting for dot.com companies. A friend of mine recently encountered problems with these dot.com companies. The directors insisted in capitalising their "intellectual properties" coz the assets of the company are basically human talent! However, this issue will go against the recognition principles for assets. If we were to capitalise the "intellectual properties", I suppose we have to amortise as well. In this instance, on what basis should we amortise? I’m sure my dear counterparts from UK and US should have the experience in this area. Kindly revert. Thanks. Steven
I believe that in the US, as long as you’re a private concern, no one really cares how funny your books are. But try doing this as a publicly traded company and the SEC will come down on you so hard you wouldn’t know how the government can take away your life savings as fines/penalties so fast.
Actually, even a private concern may have problems if it presents a financial statement in such a fashion to outsiders (for instance, to obtain credit) and doesn’t indicate clearly that it is not meant to be a GAAP compliant statement. If a CPA is involved anywhere in the process (including as an accountant inside the company), that warning goes double.
Hi there, Anyone has experienced in doing accounting for dot.com companies. A friend of mine recently encountered problems with these dot.com companies. The directors insisted in capitalising their "intellectual properties" coz the assets of the company are basically human talent! However, this issue will go against the recognition principles for assets. If we were to capitalise the "intellectual properties", I suppose we have to amortise as well. In this instance, on what basis should we amortise? I’m sure my dear counterparts from UK and US should have the experience in this area. Kindly revert. Thanks. Steven
I agree with both of the respondants plus the only way to capitalize intellectual property is to acquire it (See APB 16) under purchase accounting. Generally a Business Valuation Report estimates the value of the human capital value. The director is not exactly off his rocker. In the internet error intangible assets are key a business valuation however accounting rules have yet to catch up with the internet age. I would recommend reading "Cracking the Value Code" a publication available at www.barnesandnobles.com authored by Arthur Andersen. Its a very open discussion about the worth of intangible assets in this new economy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, Anyone has experienced in doing accounting for dot.com companies. A friend of mine recently encountered problems with these dot.com companies. The directors insisted in capitalising their "intellectual properties" coz the assets of the company are basically human talent! However, this issue will go against the recognition principles for assets. If we were to capitalise the "intellectual properties", I suppose we have to amortise as well. In this instance, on what basis should we amortise? I’m sure my dear counterparts from UK and US should have the experience in this area. Kindly revert. Thanks. Steven
Accounting Talk » Management Accounting » Can we believe what Al Gore says?
Ciao Amico o Amica, sono Uncino, ti chiedo se vorresti dare uno sguardo al mio sito, http://www.uncino1.it in modo di avere anche un tuo parere grazie, aspetto risposta saluti Uncino P.S.: se vuoi che la tua e-mail sia rimossa da e cancellati, ti ringrazio, saluti Uncino
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Invisible personnel and life control surveillance system-Information webpage: http://pages.hotbot.com/health/alan.yu/ http://members.aol.com/alanyu5/ http://home.earthlink.net/~alanyu6/index.htm Can we believe what Al Gore says? Part Eight: Al Gore used to exaggerate his contribution (e.g. in creating the internet) in order to gain votes. In the third debate, Al Gore made more exaggerations. Here is another one. Al Gore said "For the last eight years, I have had the challenge of running the streamlining program called Reinventing Government. And if there are any federal employees in this group, you know what that means. The federal government has been reduced in size by more than 300,000 people, and it’s now the smallest number that we have had since – the smallest in size since John Kennedy’s administration. During the last five years, Texas’ government has gone up in size. The federal government has gone down; Texas’ government has gone up." According to an ABC news report, Al Gore made the same claim on the first Presidential debate that "the Reinventing Government initiative he spearheaded decreased the number of federal bureaucrats by 300,000 during the eight years he’s served as vice president." According to news report from ABC NEWS.com on Oct. 6, 2000, most of that reduction–96%–came from shrinking the military after the Cold War, not from Gore’s program. "From fiscal year 1993 to fiscal year 2000, the number of full-time, civilian federal employees dropped by approximately 282,000, from 2.14 million to 1.86 million, (But most of that reduction–96%–came from shrinking the military after the Cold War). According to OMB data. Of that, 271,000, or 96 percent, were the results of a decrease in the military’s civilian workforce." Furthermore, according to a Washington Post report, "much of that reduction –two-thirds–came from shrinking the military after the Cold War, not from Gore’s program" The above information proves that Al Gore exaggerated his contribution in the Presidential debates in order to gain votes. Gore also said, "The federal government has gone down; Texas’s government has gone up." However, according to the Washington Post report, "the increase in Texas’s government was minimal, especially considering that Texas’s population was growing. The number of Texas state employees has grown about 2.3 percent in the five years Bush has been governor, according to state records." AI Gore’s exaggerated debate style might easily convince the audience that he is a good debater, but a good debater (as a orators) doesn’t equal a good President. However, since Al Gore frequently exaggerates his contribution in Presidential debates to gain votes, he could become worse if he is really elected to be the President. (attachment)-ABCNews & Washington Post 1. ABCNEWS.com on Oct. 6, 2000 More Fuzzy Math? End of Cold War – Not Gore – Responsible for Workforce Reduction By David Ruppe Oct. 6- Al Gore claimed during Tuesday’s presidential debate that the "Reinventing Government" initiative he spearheaded decreased the number of federal bureaucrats by 300,000 during the eight years he’s served as vice president. But a look at federal workforce numbers prepared annually by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), which supervises the administration of government agencies, tells a different story. The end of the Cold War, it turns out, and not Gore’s initiative, has probably had more to do with the scale-back than anything he had done. Military Scaled Back Almost all of the net federal workforce reduction from 1993 to 2000 occurred in the Defense Department, according to OMB and Pentagon figures – just as the U.S. military was massively scaling back its personnel from Cold War levels. From fiscal year 1993 to fiscal year 2000, the number of full-time, civilian federal employees dropped by approximately 282,000, from 2.14 million to 1.86 million, (But much of that reduction–96%–came from shrinking the military after the Cold War, not from Gore’s program.) according to OMB data. Of that, 271,000, or 96 percent, were the results of a decrease in the military’s civilian workforce. The White House says the Pentagon cutbacks, which began under President Bush, accounted for about 80 percent of net cuts in federal jobs under the Clinton administration. As Department of Defense non-civilian personnel were cut by more than 700,000, the size of the civilian force that supported them was also cut, says a Republican Senate defense staffer. Vice President Gore’s claim to have reduced the federal bureaucracy by 300,000 is dependant on cuts in [the defense department] that very clearly had little, if anything, to do with Vice President Gore’s ‘Reinventing Government,’ " he says. 2. Washington Post on Wednesday, October 18, 2000; Page A15 Debaters’ Messages: Not the Whole Truth By Glenn Kessler Washington Post Staff Writer ….. Gore, meanwhile, bragged that he headed the reinventing-government initiative, making it sound as though that effort was responsible for decreasing the federal work force by more than 300,000 people. But much of that reduction–two-thirds–came from shrinking the military after the Cold War, not from Gore’s program. Then, Gore asserted, "The federal government has gone down; Texas’s government has gone up." Gore was right, but the increase was minimal, especially considering that Texas’s population was growing. The number of Texas state employees has grown about 2.3 percent in the five years Bush has been governor, according to state records. =======
Invisible personnel and life control surveillance system-Information webpage: http://pages.hotbot.com/health/alan.yu/ http://members.aol.com/alanyu5/ http://home.earthlink.net/~alanyu6/index.htm Can we believe what Al Gore says? Part eight: Al Gore used to exaggerate his contribution (e.g. in creating the internet) in order to gain votes. In the third debate, Al Gore made more exaggerations. Here is another one. Al Gore said "For the last eight years, I have had the challenge of running the streamlining program called Reinventing Government. And if there are any federal employees in this group, you know what that means. The federal government has been reduced in size by more than 300,000 people, and it’s now the smallest number that we have had since – the smallest in size since John Kennedy’s administration. During the last five years, Texas’ government has gone up in size. The federal government has gone down; Texas’ government has gone up." According to an ABC news report, Al Gore made the same claim on the first Presidential debate that "the Reinventing Government initiative he spearheaded decreased the number of federal bureaucrats by 300,000 during the eight years he
Accounting Talk » Accounting » Fat loss – please email me…..
Here’s just a thought that may enter into the equation: It would seem that walking becomes less efficient at higher speeds (otherwise why would we ever run)? So it may depend on what he meant by walking fast. Those speedwalkers seem to be burning more calories than a runner going the same speed. -jeff — Jeffrey Bigham http://www.jeffreybigham.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand that running for a set time will burn more kilojoules than fast walking for 30 minutes. If you jog for a set distance (eg. 5km), do you burn the same number of kilojoules if you walk FAST for 5km ? Dear friend, Yes, and no, of course! Don’t ya hate when that’s the case? Any physicist can explain that you do the same amount of work to move the same person over the same distance no matter how slow or quick you move. Therefore, the calorie expenditure theoretically is the same. However, jogging and walking are not purely expenditures of energy in moving yourself horizontally. Walking is fairly flat and fairly fluid. Jogging is much up and down jarring. Not only do you propel yourself forward, but also a little into the air upwards with each stride. The little upward thrust expends extra energy. And when you land back on the ground with each stride, you also expend a little energy to stop your falling coming to the ground. I would therefore think that for any distance covered, jogging/running expends extra energy. But I have no idea how much this amounts to. If this extra energy is very small compared to the energy of horizontal propulsion, then walking and jogging are essentially equivalent. If the extra energy is substantial, then perhaps jogging is much more caloric than walking. I bet an exercise physiologist might know. Pehaps one is reading today. — Josh Steinberg, Syracuse
Wrong mindset! Distance does not matter! It’s the time your run/jog. 30 Minutes a day should be OK (per day, every day). If you want to burn fat you need to run/jog SLOW. Very slow! Guideline: you should be able to have a conversation during running. Then it’s the right speed.
It does not matter if you burn fat or carbs during the actual run —- the body will do the accounting and shift energy substrates later. It is true (for the most part) that the distance covered is the determining factor in the number of calories used – during the actual time exercising. The faster you go – the longer your metabolism stays elevated —- I like to think of these as freebie calories. ? How can a 40 min run easy burn more cals or more fat than a 40 min tempo run ????? (retorical) The % of fat cals burned might be slightly higher (48 to 52ish) but the total number of cals and fat cals will be much higher in the tempo run. Most people can’t / won’t or will get injured with covering mega miles on a regular basis. Take the amount of time you are willing to allot for working out — and run the pace where you feel you "could" go about another 1/4 as long (if i run for 40 min. go a pace where i think I could go for 50). But this type of workout gets old — fairly soon. One way or another – we all must make exercising fun and enjoyable (some of us demented souls just love the burn of a good workout – but we’re demented). If you are not enjoying most of your runs it puts you in the position of accepting lame excusses not to workout. One day leads to two then three, ….. Add spice to the workout – try something different – join a group — crosstrain even. Whatever it takes to keep it fun!!! good luck.
Accounting Talk » Management Accounting » 60 MINUTES: KNEE DEEP IN FRAUD
Isn’t 60 Minutes the topic of some new movie about big tobacco, as well? MZ
Om October 24th 60 Minutes exposed Medi-Cal Corruption in a documentary entitled KNEE DEEP IN FRAUD CALIFORNIA MEDI-CAL. This epsisode concentrated mainly on the findings of the FBI and State Controllers Office that have documented losses due to fraud and incompetance. I worked as an Associate Governmental Program Analyst for Department of Health Services auditing disputed Accounts Receivable for the Medi-Cal Drug Rebate Program from February 14, 1994 to April 15, 1997. Before that I was the lead Internal Auditor for the California Integrated Waste Management Board which I left because of frequent overnight travel. Before that I was a Tax Auditor II for Franchise Tax Board. an internal auditor for FTB, an internal auditor and accounting officer for the Department of Parks and Recreation and a Property Auditor-Appraiser for the State Board of Equalization. Before that I held various accounting and auditing positions in both government and private industry. When I was hired at DHS there was a 4 year backlog of disputed A/Rs with over 300 pharmaceutical manufacturers. I soon found that the Section Chief Mike Neff had no interest in resolving these disputes or in providing me the necessary tools. In June 1995 I found out that the Bureau of State Audits was coming due to a letter from Glaxo’s Chief Council that alleged favoratism (kickbacks) and incompetance in the drug rebate program. I immediately contacted the hotline of the Bureau of State Audits and spilled my guts to them of which I have written proof. Both the State Controller and the Bureau of State Audits did a 6 month audit of this corrupt program. Kathleen Connell PhD. the State Controller held a press conference at the State Capitol in March 1996 announcing that $230,000,000 was lost due to incompetance and fraud. Kim Belshe, Pete Wilson’s Director of Health Services denounced the audit findings. Kim Belshe rewarded Mike Neff the creep in charge of the Medi-Cal Drug Rebate Program a promotion to Deputy Director, Calif. Dept. of Health Services after he made the newspapers and TV for losing $230,000,000 through incompetance. The Drug Rebate Program has been used as an extortion device against pharmaceutical manufacturers to pay kickbacks to bureaucrats. My reward was continous harassment at work which got so bad that I resigned from state service on April 15, 1997. I lost my condo, went through bankruptcy and was bad mouthed in trying to transfer to another position. Since then I have become a permanent temporary working in computer and accounting positions with no benefits. There are many Department of Health Services employees who became victims of the Kim Belshe and John Rodriquez reign of terror. The following were either fired or forced to resign from state employment: Anna Maria Ortega – Analyst – Managed Care Milt Kusinart – Pharmacist – Drug Rebate Program Howard Coblentz – Analyst (Juris Doctor) – Medi-Cal Benefits Frank Leon – Career Executive – Audits and Investigations Sheldon Farrell – Manager – Audits and Investigations JOE MUNSO IS THE ACTING DIRECTOR OF DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES WILSON ADMINISTRATION BUMS: LET’S FIRE THEM! GET RID OF CEA TRASH LIKE RODRIQUEZ, MUNSO, KESSLER AND NEFF WRITE DAVIS AND THE LEGISLATURE TO FLUSH THE SEWERS OF DHS. HERE ARE THE PERPETRATORS: STARRING FROM THE CAST OF CA HEALTH &WELFARE AGENCY 1. JOHNNY (THE STUD) RODRIGUEZ 2. JOEY (RATSO) MUNSO 3. MIKE (STICKY FINGERS) NEFF 4. STEVE (BABY KILLER) KESSLER (I AM PRO-CHOICE, I AM JUST REVEALING HYPOCRISCY) 5. DARRYLL (THE GREAT WHITE STUD)NIXON 6. BEN THOMAS WAS MIKE NEFF’S BOSS GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS GET BLOW JOBS FROM SECRETARIES WHILE BEING PAID BY CALIFORNIA TAXPAYERS We have heard all about Monicagate over and over again from the national press. However the press in California has been strangely silent about the peccadilloes of some of Governor Pete Wilson’s top aides in the California Health and Welfare Agency Three secretaries who worked for the California Department of Health Services were subjected to a gross violation of their human rights.(One of these women was pregnant and encouraged to get an abortion by DHS management)(Steve Kessler). The women were Sue Ann Gage, Rochelle Strasser, and Karen D. Gilson who were harassed over a three period, they threatened with termination of employment and given negative references when they tried to escape this hostile environment. I have read the court documents concerning this case and this was not a simple case of boss having an affair with his secretary, these women where passed around among Department of Health Services management for the purposes of providing sexual favors that coerced out of them. The major offenders were John Rodriguez who was Chief Deputy Director of the Department of Health Services and Joe Munso who was Deputy Director of Administration for the Department of Health Services. Joe Munso had one former secretary give him blow jobs while he stood with his back to the door so nobody would walk in on them. The three women sued these creeps in Sacramento Superior Court No. 96-Aso 1521, November 8, 1996, Department 53. I have the court documents which are public record. Kim Belshe, Director of the Department of Health Services did everything in here power to cover this up. The victims were paid hush money complements of the taxpayers of the State of California. Jan Howard who helped preside over $230,000,000 lost Medi-Cal funds was promoted to Section Chief through Johnny The Stud’s help she knew how to use her head, but not for thinking. Mike Neff, Section Chief and Jan Howard’s boss was promoted to Deputy Director after the State Controller’s Office audit findings were publicized on TV and the Sacramento Bee. Daryll Nixon former Chief of the Benefits Division specialized in sexually harassing Black Women caused DHS to have to pay damages for sexual harassment and racial discrimination is now a manager for the the Department of Health and Human Services. John Rodriguez was given a new position as Deputy Director, Hospitals, of the Department of Mental Health. Joe Munso was promoted to Chief Deputy Director of Health Services. We all know how vulnerable mental patients are from sexual predators, please join me in protesting this appointment by writing to Governor Davis and the State Legislature. Assemblyman Darrell S. Steinberg, 9th District Governor Gray Davis State Capitol Building Sacramento, CA 95814 Phone (916) 445-2841 FAX (916) 445-4633 Pass Around, Forward to Friends JOHN G. BESSLER (916)422-6725
Accounting Talk » Accounting » Steps
In a previous post regarding Steps, someone said something to the effect of, "I have to agree with the bloke who said he doesn’t understand what the two blokes {in Steps} do." Far be it from me to suggest that whole little "Finger snapping, hand clapping, music hitching, toe-to-toe, big grinning, body-spinning, floor hugging, sliding, gliding, here we go!!" in "5, 6, 7, 8" that comes after the quote-unquote "instrumental" section is a male vocalist… -Greg
Omar, The official Pete Waterman discography and messageboard read by Mr ‘Hitman’ himself at www.cafe80s.freeserve.co.uk Board at http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb12356 Jeremy Kay is the number 1 expert, see him there. Cheerio then! Speaking of the Hitman – did you not think you lot the Hitman and Her TV show went on for too long….he had ample time to promote all his records?
Hey….ok lemme clarify some of your point please… No, you see. steps are POP music – nothing else! Pop, in the pure sense of the word – i.e. popular – they are in the popular music charts all the time (no accounting for taste eh?), but not the dance charts
STEPS are very commercial, I admitt that. They are very catchy, that too. They are VERY POPULAR, true. WHO said that DANCE MUSIC cannot be POPULAR!??? I still dont get your point. They have made the dance charts (check out DMA’s Hi-nrg dance charts, and other hi-nrg charts). True, they’ve had loads of hits on the POP charts, but so have AQUA. SOme again may argue that AQUA is also pop. I say, POP/DANCE at the MOST. Both these groups have MASSIVE appeal with kids, radio, television, SMASH HITS (and that sort of magazine)……BUT, see I dont’ care who the guy singing or adncing is…i listen to the WHOLE song….the MUSIC, I KNOW that a great Producer of hi-nrg dance music from the 1980’s is producing this, I always enjoyed his work…so why should the fact that the people SINGING on the record appear "cheesy" looking in the video and are found appealing by kids????? = Methinks the clubs you mention would more likely be called ‘discos’ by most people on the list Actually, there are MANY kinds of clubs. There’s R&B clubs, drumnbass, top 40, hiphop,
techno, ambient, trance style, Hi-nrg club….. ALL CLUBS! All these clubs appeal to a different crowd. I’m sure you would find that at least a couple of these might play STEPS. IN fact they do! Why is it that to this day, whenever clubs play songs by AQUA, LA BOUCHE, etc…the whole crowd loves it and goes to the dancefloor???? Yes, they’re VERY commercial, but in my opinion they’re VERY GOOD! but still, NO ONE can get the ENERGY pumping like STOCK AITKEN and WATERMAN tracks…or just plain waterman, as he is doing with STEPS!!! A slightly sweeping statement
YOU THINK??? I dunno….check out "better the devil you know" by Kylie, "Venus" bananarama, "you spin me round" dead or alive….mASSIVE energy in those tunes They aren;t creative at all – they are robots, they sing songs (allegedly) that someone else writes, someone else produces the records, some a&r man gives them their clothes…….
I said that FAITHLESS were creative, not STEPS. Who cares if they dont’ do any of the work!?!? I listen to a SONG…i dont’ care who wrote it. HOnestly, if i want something deep and personal, i don’t listen to eurodance for it. There’s a time and place for every type of music, but that does not mean you should disregard it just because the person who sings it is a "bimbo" "airhead" "model" etc…i mean, god knows I’ve liekd tons of music by ";lypsinchers" like Corona, Black box etc…but why should the fact that I don’t SEE the real singer matter…. I LIKE the MUSIC of steps. True, I might say the two blonde chicks are highly attractive, but that wwo’t make me like the group more. That’s called shallow. Steps in fact have 3 songs in the UK top 40 as of this week! "Tragedy" still in the top 30, their new single still in the top 20…and they are part of the "ABBA TRIBUTE" along with TINA COUSINS, BWITCHED, and CLEOPATrA which debuted at #4! 3 more examples of mass produced crap
If you wanna call it that. As someone else might say "mass produced europop sounding trash" and as I might say "brilliant music" DOn’t even dare say that only kids under 14 listen to STEPS either! Many adults love this uplifting dance/pop music! How old are you Omar? I’m 22, problem with that? So we can all talk about the the minute waltz? – after all – it’s music you
See that’s a bit too much. Dance music was never supposed to be only ONE sided and in one direction. Omar
Hey Omar – it’s you again! Just a few points: Pete Waterman, and all his products as much as you try to make them out to be nothing but commercial pop music, aree definitely dance music
No, you see. steps are POP music – nothing else! Pop, in the pure sense of the word – i.e. popular – they are in the popular music charts all the time (no accounting for taste eh?), but not the dance charts True they moight not play the original versions in clubs because of the "cheesiness" factor associated with these artist’s images,
Methinks the clubs you mention would more likely be called ‘discos’ by most people on the list but still, NO ONE can get the ENERGY pumping like STOCK AITKEN and WATERMAN tracks…or just plain waterman, as he is doing with STEPS!!!
A slightly sweeping statement No I never said they were as creative as say FAITHLESS or those groups, but if you want brainless, happy dance music to go adrenaline crazy on…..STEPS do it!!
They aren;t creative at all – they are robots, they sing songs (allegedly) that someone else writes, someone else produces the records, some a&r man gives them their clothes……. Steps in fact have 3 songs in the UK top 40 as of this week! "Tragedy" still in the top 30, their new single still in the top 20…and they are part of the "ABBA TRIBUTE" along with TINA COUSINS, BWITCHED, and CLEOPATrA which debuted at #4!
3 more examples of mass produced crap DOn’t even dare say that only kids under 14 listen to STEPS either! Many adults love this uplifting dance/pop music!
How old are you Omar? By the way, DANCE MUSIC is very varied, so please dont’ tell me or others not to put POSTINGS about STEPS, cos they are DANCE as much as MORALES is dance! Different styles that is ALL!
So we can all talk about the the minute waltz? – after all – it’s music you "music had been domesticated for profit – music should give birth to orgasm and revolution!"
DOn’t even dare say that only kids under 14 listen to STEPS either! Many adults love this uplifting dance/pop music!
That is kinda true, 14 or below, 40 and above. Like the Lighthouse Family, Steps are there to make old people think they like dance music. Visit the djrap.com to find real uplifting dance/pop. — Paul Coombes -Go To White Hart Lane Try www.spurs.co.uk Or www.higherground.co.uk www.djrap.com -ICQ Me At 23002494
People have to be free to like whatever they like, if they enjoy it due to ignorance fair enough. I just wish they didnt make postings about it in a dance newsgroup. Which steps clearly arent. They dance but they aint dance.
Paul, I really do not appreciate this comment. So it’s pop/dance.. it’s got every right to be in here. I’ve been using alt.music.dance for about 4 – 5 years now regularly. When I got here, discussion was almost exclusively Canadians and Americans discussing German/Dutch/Italian "Euro". Now that there are a lot more US DJs and Europeans using the newsgroup, the topics are geared more towards house/trance/progressive/garage, etc, etc, etc. But that does not mean the music YOU do not consider to be credible dance music does not have a place here. I cannot put into words how much I loath most of the music coming out of the UK but I am quite happy to live in harmony with ALL the dance music fans in here. (I’m from England BTW) While I agree that Steps is not the greatest band in the world, they are fun to listen to. I take offense at being called ignorant because I like it. As it happens, I am confident that for European (non UK) dance music from 1993 – 1997, I am one of the most knowledgable people in the world. (yes, a bit cocky, but I collect from this era almost exclusively) So I like synthesizers and short catchy vocals over drum beats, instrumentals and vocal filled house. This does not make my music any less "dance" music than yours. So please try to be a little more tolerant of what you perceive to be non dance music.. we’ve been here for a long time too. Regards… Darren Barnes Dance Music Mail Order Page http://members.home.net/wooba/music.html WITHOUT the spamX
Aren’t Steps Swedish or something? The girls are too beautiful to be English. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steps are shite. No doubt about it. I feel ashamed to be British knowing that we’re exporting this kind of trash. Normally when new bands arrive on the scene and release four of five songs, I can usually say that I’ll like at least two of their songs, but not with these ambassadors of naff music. Rates high on the cheese scale.
You two are both wrong. Sorry to spoil your fun, but STEPS is as happy DANCE music as you can get! True they’re not doing some samples like fatboy slim, true they’re nothing progressive by any mean, true they’re not working with any popular DJ around from North America, true they’re the furthest thing away from underground that you can get….BUT, I slightly think that is a DANCE and not a ROCK beat there! Definitely, happy, so WHAT? Pete Waterman, and all his products as much as you try to make them out to be nothing but commercial pop music, aree definitely dance music. True they moight not play the original versions in clubs because of the "cheesiness" factor associated with these artist’s images, but still, NO ONE can get the ENERGY pumping like STOCK AITKEN and WATERMAN tracks…or just plain waterman, as he is doing with STEPS!!! cmon, you can’t deny that KYLIE, Rick Astly, Bananarama, SONIA, Jason Donvan, Boy Krazy, and all the rest of the STOCK AITKEN or WATERMAN produced groups/artists that ever existed definitely had some dance/club support! I knwo they do in fact! Why do magazines like DMA publish articles about them. No I never said they were as creative as say FAITHLESS or those groups, but if you want brainless, happy dance music to go adrenaline crazy on…..STEPS do it!! Steps in fact have 3 songs in the UK top 40 as of this week! "Tragedy" still in the top 30, their new single still in the top 20…and they are part of the "ABBA TRIBUTE" along with TINA COUSINS, BWITCHED, and CLEOPATrA which debuted at #4! DOn’t even dare say that only kids under 14 listen to STEPS either! Many adults love this uplifting dance/pop music! By the way, DANCE MUSIC is very varied, so please dont’ tell me or others not to put POSTINGS about STEPS, cos they are DANCE as much as MORALES is dance! Different styles that is ALL! OMAR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steps are shite. No doubt about it. I feel ashamed to be British knowing that we’re exporting this kind of trash. Normally when new bands arrive on the scene and release four of five songs, I can usually say that I’ll like at least two of their songs, but not with these ambassadors of naff music. Rates high on the cheese scale. People have to be free to like whatever they like, if they enjoy it due to ignorance fair enough. I just wish they didnt make postings about it in a dance newsgroup. Which steps clearly arent. They dance but they aint dance. — Paul Coombes
Steps are shite. No doubt about it. I feel ashamed to be British knowing that we’re exporting this kind of trash. Normally when new bands arrive on the scene and release four of five songs, I can usually say that I’ll like at least two of their songs, but not with these ambassadors of naff music. Rates high on the cheese scale.
People have to be free to like whatever they like, if they enjoy it due to ignorance fair enough. I just wish they didnt make postings about it in a dance newsgroup. Which steps clearly arent. They dance but they aint dance. — Paul Coombes -Go To White Hart Lane Try www.spurs.co.uk Or www.higherground.co.uk www.djrap.com -ICQ Me At 23002494
Steps are shite. No doubt about it. I feel ashamed to be British knowing that we’re exporting this kind of trash. Normally when new bands arrive on the scene and release four of five songs, I can usually say that I’ll like at least two of their songs, but not with these ambassadors of naff music. Rates high on the cheese scale.
Accounting Talk » Business Accounting » C172 annual, insurance costs ?
An additional possible problem area to look at (among MANY): there is a reg that regulates write off’s for passive business income, of which a leaseback is definately one of. If you make too much money other places you won’t get the deduction or it will be limited.
The deductions aren’t limitted, what is limitted is that if you have a net loss from a passive operation, you can only take it against other passive income. You can still use the depreciation (or other deductions) to counter profit from that activity. I disagree that a leaseback is definitey a passive activity. Depending on your agreement with the lessor, it may be an active activity. The AOPA has a nice pamphlet on this stuff. In my case I was renting to a club, handling all the maintenance, and most of the bills, etc., more than enough to meet the criteria. So when you take into account the taxable windfall (paper profit) when you sell the plane and couple it with the additional accounting fees to keep track of your losing business, you just might get a partner or two to buy a plane with and skip leasebacks.
Well, I don’t pay any accounting fees. It’s not all that complicated. I don’t know what you mean by "paper profit" either. Are you talking about depreciation recapture? If so, it’s just the natural consequence of any capital asset that any business person should no about. Leaseback is a business. If you’ve got a plane that you don’t fly (or don’t fly much) that’s rentable, it may be a good way to hold on to it. However, if you fly your aircraft, the advise to think about some other scheme to share the costs is probably a good one. -Ron
Rod, first off, I’m not an account. But god knows I’ve given them tens of thousands of dollars just in the last 10 years, so some of the tax rules have rubbed off on me. No, you don’t depreciate a personal plane, car or boat, etc., UNLESS it is also used for business. Then you depreciate a PART of it for business use. As far as a leaseback airplane, it is a business asset. You MUST depreciate a business asset. It’s not an option as far as I know. So when you put an airplane on the line for a leaseback, you will probably straight line it over 7 years (1/7 of the cost) or use an accellerated method (150% declining balance).
Stan, This is not intended as a flame. A lot of what you’ve said isn’t quite correct but it should help to scare someone to seeking a good CPA/Attorney for help when pondering a major decision. There are so many rules & exceptions that only a seasoned CPA who has experience in this particular area should help you make these decisions. Especially before you sink a lot of money into a plane only to find that you cannot use it for the tax advantage you thought you could. Or worse, the IRS notifies you that they have found possibly fraudulent practices in your accounting for assets. In this situation you could be looking at prison time, penalties, + interest. Be aware that the best money you can spend (whether you believe it or not) is for good legal/tax advise. Trip
… if you or your accountant depreciated the airplane and improvements, etc (you know, when you did your taxes you had a smile on your face), … You will pay a long term capital gains on that airplane based on the selling price and your "basis" in the airplane (roughly, that’s your cost less depreciation and long term improvements).
Perhaps I’m naive here, so will ask: – does anybody take depreciation on their personal plane, car, RV, or boat? – if so, can/should one subtract the cost of all annuals from the basis? (that would take care of the capital gain for most airplanes). – how would the IRS know you bought/sold an airplane and for how much, if on the FAA registration form you just fill in sales price as "$1 + OVR" (other valuable remuneration) which is fine as far as the FAA is concerned. That’s what I’ve done, figuring it is none of the government’s business. But then I’ve never considered depreciation or leaseback, or treating my toy as a depreciable asset, so am naive. – rod farlee
does anybody take depreciation on their personal plane, car, RV, or boat?
There’s no way to depreciate a personal plane. You can do it in business uses. if so, can/should one subtract the cost of all annuals from the basis? (that would take care of the capital gain for most airplanes).
An annual is not a capital expense. It doesn’t count. If you make capital improvements to the plane, you "add" that to the basis (not subtract). – how would the IRS know you bought/sold an airplane and for how much, if on the FAA registration form you just fill in sales price as "$1 + OVR"
Just as with about anything else, they would want to see some legitimate description of the "other valuable consideration." That valuable consideration is taxable, even if it’s not cash.
if so, can/should one subtract the cost of all annuals from the basis? (that would take care of the capital gain for most airplanes). An annual is not a capital expense. It doesn’t count. If you make capital improvements to the plane, you "add" that to the basis (not subtract).
I should follow up that as an ordinary expense, the annual is taken as a deduction in the year it’s paid for (in business use).
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might get it ALL back when you sell it, but if you or your accountant depreciated the airplane and improvements, etc (you know, when you did your taxes you had a smile on your face), you will pay it back big time. You will pay a long term capital gains on that airplane based on the selling price and your "basis" in the airplane (roughly, that’s your cost less depreciation and long term improvements). So don’t think you’ve got a windfall. The IRS does. Stan Stan, You forgot to tell that you can only depreciate the plane if it is used solely for business. You cannot depreciate anything for personal use. Makes a major difference. Trip
Of course. That’s why the plane is on a lease back isn’t it? And you as the owner are still renting the plane from the FBO to insure that it is a 100% lease back and not part private use. If you are not renting it, then you will of course have to segregate your use from that of the FBO’s. It gets sticky. Much better to become a renter of your own plane and keep it 100% business use. An additional possible problem area to look at (among MANY): there is a reg that regulates write off’s for passive business income, of which a leaseback is definately one of. If you make too much money other places you won’t get the deduction or it will be limited. So when you take into account the taxable windfall (paper profit) when you sell the plane and couple it with the additional accounting fees to keep track of your losing business, you just might get a partner or two to buy a plane with and skip leasebacks. Stan
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … if you or your accountant depreciated the airplane and improvements, etc (you know, when you did your taxes you had a smile on your face), … You will pay a long term capital gains on that airplane based on the selling price and your "basis" in the airplane (roughly, that’s your cost less depreciation and long term improvements). Perhaps I’m naive here, so will ask: – does anybody take depreciation on their personal plane, car, RV, or boat? – if so, can/should one subtract the cost of all annuals from the basis? (that would take care of the capital gain for most airplanes). – how would the IRS know you bought/sold an airplane and for how much, if on the FAA registration form you just fill in sales price as "$1 + OVR" (other valuable remuneration) which is fine as far as the FAA is concerned. That’s what I’ve done, figuring it is none of the government’s business. But then I’ve never considered depreciation or leaseback, or treating my toy as a depreciable asset, so am naive. – rod farlee
Rod, first off, I’m not an account. But god knows I’ve given them tens of thousands of dollars just in the last 10 years, so some of the tax rules have rubbed off on me. No, you don’t depreciate a personal plane, car or boat, etc., UNLESS it is also used for business. Then you depreciate a PART of it for business use. As far as a leaseback airplane, it is a business asset. You MUST depreciate a business asset. It’s not an option as far as I know. So when you put an airplane on the line for a leaseback, you will probably straight line it over 7 years (1/7 of the cost) or use an accellerated method (150% declining balance). I’m not going into what that means, but the net of it is that the plane is on the books after 7 years at a NET COST TO YOU of $ 0.00. When you sell, say for $50K, you just EARNED $50, 000 for that year, long term capital gain. Annuals and other maintenance items are expensed in the year incurred. Not major items that would include paint, new engine, avionics. These are added to the basis of the plane and depreciated, as they have a long useful life (5,7 years). Also deducted as espense is insurance, tiedown, registration fees, maintenance during the year, etc. This is why many people get sucked into leasebacks… You deduct the expenses of the airplane against rental income. Drawback is the plane is more expensive to operate in a leaseback situation, (it goes through an annual every hundred hours), is mistreated, and has LOADS of hours put on it (read subtract $xxxxx for every 100 hours over yyyyy). As far as showing the purchase sell prices way out of line, it could be viewed as fraud in the Governments eye. Besides, who is going to believe you bought a 1985 Baron 58 for $300,000 and sold it at a loss five years later for $10,000? Perhaps the IRS will view your bank deposits. Hope that answers your questions. Stan
I have been offered a chance to join a 3 way partnership on a Cessna 172… Its a 1964, with 1200 hours on the engine, and about 3000 on the airframe…
Stan March covered most everything. Just a note about the Continental O-300 engine: it seems to be pretty common experience that they need top overhaul at about 1000-1400 hours. So there is always a possibility that you could get a bill for up to $2000, your share of a new set of cylinders. That’s kind of the worst case, but thought you should know. – rod farlee
I have a 64 skyhawk and it’s been a reliable workhorse. the 6-banger continental is smoother than the 4-banger Lycoming. I average around 110-115 in no wind cruise, burn cheap autogas. I say go for it. You’ll get all your $ back when you liquidate the airplane. Tom Saylor Photography Visit our web site: http://www.saylorphoto.com
I’m seriously thinking about buying a 1975 Cessna 172 (about 5000 TTAF, 1500 SMOH). Before taking the plunge, I’m trying to get as much info as possible about the cost of ownership after the purchase. I would very much appreciate it if you have a similar plane and could tell me roughly how much you pay for: annuals insurance or any other expense cautions you’d like to make. many thanks, Glen
You might get it ALL back when you sell it, but if you or your accountant depreciated the airplane and improvements, etc (you know, when you did your taxes you had a smile on your face), you will pay it back big time. You will pay a long term capital gains on that airplane based on the selling price and your "basis" in the airplane (roughly, that’s your cost less depreciation and long term improvements). So don’t think you’ve got a windfall. The IRS does. Stan
Stan, You forgot to tell that you can only depreciate the plane if it is used solely for business. You cannot depreciate anything for personal use. Makes a major difference. Trip
I have a 64 skyhawk and it’s been a reliable workhorse. the 6-banger continental is smoother than the 4-banger Lycoming. I average around 110-115 in no wind cruise, burn cheap autogas. I say go for it. You’ll get all your $ back when you liquidate the airplane. Tom Saylor Photography Visit our web site: http://www.saylorphoto.com
You might get it ALL back when you sell it, but if you or your accountant depreciated the airplane and improvements, etc (you know, when you did your taxes you had a smile on your face), you will pay it back big time. You will pay a long term capital gains on that airplane based on the selling price and your "basis" in the airplane (roughly, that’s your cost less depreciation and long term improvements). So don’t think you’ve got a windfall. The IRS does. Stan
I have been offered a chance to join a 3 way partnership on a Cessna 172. (I’ve always rented Pipers, but I’m willing to learn) Here’s the deal. Its a 1964, with 1200 hours on the engine, and about 3000 on the airframe. The only problem seems to be the exterior. The partners want to repaint the airframe, and replace exterior fittings for a total cost of $6000 (split three ways), the cost to join is $7500, plus $2k towards the repaint, plus $100 a month for maintenence/insurance/tiedown and $8 per hour towards engine replacement. They are willing to finance the cost of the membership themselves
<SNIP Al
First off, get the actual value of the aircraft from the blue book. Is it a 22,500 airplane with the current paint, etc? If so, then you have a good start. You say they are willing to finance the purchase? What terms? You call it a membership. That bothers me. Is it an ownership of 1/3 the airplane? If you are NOT on the FAA registration, I would not consider the deal. $8 / hr is a reasonable cost for engine overhaul. Actually it is a high number but that is good. $100/month by three people is $3600/year, which should be fine for tiedown and insurance and maybe the BASE cost of an annual, depending on where you live. In the NY area a hanger could cost more than that! But there is no mention of an hourly charge for maintenance. I’d suggest that at least another $10/hr be charged. More if you all like to do upgrades to radios, etc. The extra $10/hr will go for routine and not so routine maintenance and should be charged by use. Your cost should be 28/hr dry + 20 gas = $48/hr. If you fly 100 hrs/yr that would add another $12/hr for a total of $60. Not bad to own your own. If all still looks good, DO get a prebuy inspection. It will cost you at least $200 or so but is worth every penny. I’ve met people who have been ripped off in "partnerships" of unairworthy aircraft. You get lulled in because you feel the present owners are taking care of the plane. Maybe they’re dumping it (on you). NEVER EVER buy an airplane without a SERIOUS prebuy inspection. Stan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m seriously thinking about buying a 1975 Cessna 172 (about 5000 TTAF, 1500 SMOH). Before taking the plunge, I’m trying to get as much info as possible about the cost of ownership after the purchase. I would very much appreciate it if you have a similar plane and could tell me roughly how much you pay for: annuals insurance or any other expense cautions you’d like to make. Glen, I bought a 182 a couple of years ago. I was NOT a smart buyer and the first annual cost me $6000. There were a couple high labor AD’s that needed complied with, I had to replace the prop and a lot of paperwork problems with the airplane. The second annual cost be $4000. Again, getting things up to snuff. The last two annuals have been $2000 or less. And the shop is not ripping me off. The A&P and I discuss any problems that come up and together decide what course of action to take. I tend to NOT defer things which is one reason the first couple of years were so expensive. I had to get the airplane up to my level. The airplane you’re looking at is fairly high time, so plan on spending some money on it unless it has been VERY well taken care of. Take the airplane to a good shop and spend the money for a thourough and complete buyers inspection. Have the shop do an annual inspection and tell you what is wrong. This will cost you a couple of hundred dollars but can save you thousands. Of course no one in his right mind buys an airplane thinking it’ll be cheap.<G We buy them because we like to fly. Can’t tell you about insurance, I don’t have any. Insurance companies tend to shy away from people that let their passengers get out while in flight. — Dale L. Falk Cessna 182A N5912B
First, it is very important to get a prebuy done by YOUR mechanic or someone you trust. Check the A/C out completely. It will save you money. I was somewhat successful in my prebuy. I missed that the C/S prop had not been overhauled correctly and that now has been fixed with $1400. Insurance on my plane is $415/yr through AIG. Cheaper than what I had on my boat. My first annual was my prebuy which cost me $150. but I did alot of the tear down and put together with help from some knowledgable friends. My mechanic does believe in owner assisted annuals. So I am hoping that it will not be too bad. Plan on doing a lot of things your self that your mechanic will let you do. Plan on buying your own tools. Do not always use his/hers. Good luck Ross Richardson I’d rather be flying… Texas Instruments Inc 972-952-3170 N7905U 180hp C-172F The expressed opinions are mine alone.
I’m seriously thinking about buying a 1975 Cessna 172 (about 5000 TTAF, 1500 SMOH). Before taking the plunge, I’m trying to get as much info as possible about the cost of ownership after the purchase. I would very much appreciate it if you have a similar plane and could tell me roughly how much you pay for: annuals insurance or any other expense cautions you’d like to make.
Glen, I bought a 182 a couple of years ago. I was NOT a smart buyer and the first annual cost me $6000. There were a couple high labor AD’s that needed complied with, I had to replace the prop and a lot of paperwork problems with the airplane. The second annual cost be $4000. Again, getting things up to snuff. The last two annuals have been $2000 or less. And the shop is not ripping me off. The A&P and I discuss any problems that come up and together decide what course of action to take. I tend to NOT defer things which is one reason the first couple of years were so expensive. I had to get the airplane up to my level. The airplane you’re looking at is fairly high time, so plan on spending some money on it unless it has been VERY well taken care of. Take the airplane to a good shop and spend the money for a thourough and complete buyers inspection. Have the shop do an annual inspection and tell you what is wrong. This will cost you a couple of hundred dollars but can save you thousands. Of course no one in his right mind buys an airplane thinking it’ll be cheap.<G We buy them because we like to fly. Can’t tell you about insurance, I don’t have any. Insurance companies tend to shy away from people that let their passengers get out while in flight. — Dale L. Falk Cessna 182A N5912B
I have been offered a chance to join a 3 way partnership on a Cessna 172. (I’ve always rented Pipers, but I’m willing to learn) Here’s the deal. Its a 1964, with 1200 hours on the engine, and about 3000 on the airframe. The only problem seems to be the exterior. The partners want to repaint the airframe, and replace exterior fittings for a total cost of $6000 (split three ways), the cost to join is $7500, plus $2k towards the repaint, plus $100 a month for maintenence/insurance/tiedown and $8 per hour towards engine replacement. They are willing to finance the cost of the membership themselves- If I want to build hours, I would have to rent Pipers at $70 an hour, I also want to do a tour sometime which would be real expensive with a rental. It has mostly new avionics (radio, transponder, loran) I think I can afford this. What am I missing? With the Continental engine the plane it can only cruise at 95 but it is a solid opportunity to build some hours. Are better airplanes available for what I would be spending? It may be a little more expensive than if I rented the Piper- but it would be MINE… (well at least partly) My family know the partner that I have been talking to and has really nice things to say about him so this isn’t completely blind. Any response would be appreciated. Al