Question:

is there anybody can tell me the real accounting career path, or give me some information (book, website, trade journal, etc.)help me make decision what i do in the future because i am major accountency.

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is there anybody can tell me the real accounting career path, or give me some information (book, website, trade journal, etc.)help me make decision what i do in the future because i am major accountency.

if you are majoring in "Accountancy" at a college you could discuss career paths and future requirements of acccounting degrees with a teacher or advisor at the school, these kinds of decisions are difficult to properly assess in a newsgroup

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is there anybody can tell me the real accounting career path,

Damn.  I knew I took a wrong turn somewhere along this path. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia

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Oh if only this type of forum were availlable to me way-back-when. When I was in college I remember sitting half-sober in the counselor’s office and her telling me that I had too many hours and I had to declare a major.  She threw the handbook at me.  I opened it up and the first thing I came to was accounting.  Today I am a friggin’ CPA. If only I had opened that handbook from the back….I could be a zoologist. DGG "There are no accounting jokes….all those antecdotes are true" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -is there anybody can tell me the real accounting career path, or give me some information (book, website, trade journal, etc.)help me make decision what i do in the future because i am major accountency.

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Question:

Hi, I am just start learning accounting by myself…and I am confussed the term "brought forward" and "carried forward", also the "carried down" and "brought down" … Thanks Ivan Lee http://www.geocities.com/ginola79/

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The carried part is the starting point of the story, the brought the second part and conclusion. Roger — ‘Ladies Day at Royal Ascot’ on http://www.findit.co.uk/pictures.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am just start learning accounting by myself…and I am confussed the term "brought forward" and "carried forward", also the "carried down" and "brought down" … Thanks Ivan Lee http://www.geocities.com/ginola79/

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The carried part is the starting point of the story, the brought the second part and conclusion. Roger

thanks you Ivan Lee http://www.geocities.com/ginola79/

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As it relates to accounting, when a schedule spans more than one page the amounts on the first page are totaled and labeled  something like "Administrative Expenses Carried Forward", on the next page the amount is repeated and labeled something like " Administrative Expenses Brought Forward"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The carried part is the starting point of the story, the brought the second part and conclusion. Roger thanks you Ivan Lee http://www.geocities.com/ginola79/

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Question:

Cris talk to Bob here. JP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah, twice I  got a call from the Federal Protective Service for work. Nooooooooo, I take a job in Hell with USPS. Bob, get a large Garbage can and a good Molson to wash that taste out. Good Luck, take Nexium so you get no  Ulcers. Sure glad I ain’t in your Boots. If Ben Franklen ever knew now…..Fact is most now are very Religious! That’s good advice.  I got lots of Nexium but can’t afford the Molson so it will have to wait. Now this is very odd. In 3 years 3 good people died of Cancer in my Main. A 4th. now has Lupus. All where real healthy. Looks like a  cluster to me, but why ? None were Vets. Are they reading mail with Radiation, strong x ray ? If  you seen this in yours, ask that useless Union to test it. Microwaves ? In fact maybe a 4th. one also ? None lived near another. Make a check on that one. Funny you should mention this because I noticed the same thing.  Four non-vets with cancer and my ex boss (non-vet) has Lupus.  I’m sure glad I don’t work there any more.  I will never set foot in a USPS facility again … other than to mail something. How in Hell can you have a one armed Part time career flexible Federal Mailhandler when you need 5 arms, 3 legs and a broom up your ass while counting rubber bands ? Ya can’t … but that never stopped them. Need a  back up letter I can find you  two. It will be nice, but firm on employee treatment. We owe some payback. In  my book they  need to  look for Martians  not Martins. I don’t think any letters are going to help.  Lawyer is giving me the same old song and dance … I told him that as long as I’m not getting paid, he’s not getting paid so … if he wants to get paid he needs to get on the ball.  Got ahold of the Accounting Center in Eagan, Minn.and the lady told me that they sent the paperwork to Workers’ Comp in January and all they had to do was pay their share and I would get what’s coming to me.  Workers’ Comp has handed me off to yet another Claim Rep who, of course, is never there. It just never ends …

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Chris in 1990 I found out allot of disabilities were hidden from me. I tried all the NSOs no good. I got the laws I needed called title ___cfr. On all turn downs I used say like Judo. Take their strengths and turn them around. I won all, but one including back pay, some I’ve still not got yet. I now have  photos and eye witness to win the one I  lost. Ok, Air Brush is bad ? Why. We all know Painting relaxes you. Tell them it makes your arm feel better. They can argue against that ? ( unless you screw up the job and have a Heart Attack.) Now you know why you never talk  to a Cop or anyone EVER! Don’t tell them you sell your work !! No hobbies, your depressed, all you do is watch TV, NOTHING more … Hell, tell them your looking for a Gun to shoot yourself. I see the Billions this Gov  gives away I get hot. I spend my money here local or a USA mail order. I say that’s being very Patriotic ! Take them on line by line.  Keep the Art up as its a buck and you enjoy it. Never let them get away with a thing. They are not Smart people, if so they would own a Law Firm. These are the guys who can’t pass a Law Exam. Enjoy  your work and consider fighting them a part time job, never get angry, make it a battle of wits. After I won I felt deflated. I enjoyed the fight, not the win. Like they say, ‘ Its the Hunt that counts, not the kill.’ Find the title ___cfr also the ___USC and read   the Laws, do not read into them. Have a trusted friend tell you,  hey  pal, your off by a mile here and listen to that person. You know, your own Lawyer your a fool. Sometimes you must do it that way. The number of the USC and cfr are in your paperwork. You will find ‘ factoids’ those are parts of Law that fit the turndown,  often the COMPLETE law is a Win. Someone should be in Jail for those dirty tricks. Go to google and print all the laws out. You have a ton of reading. See what cfr they use and the USC is case Law of the same number. I double spaced, What Laws apply, How it occurred and How it affects me. All were a bit over half a page. I wrote all out on Legal paper say 10 times, then typed it out. No Problem. So, google title 15 cfr for instance. Have allot of ink. Its a Parent directory setup so it will take time to download. A few tricks I used was Howard Hughes and the Spruce Goose. He hired 3 Lawfirms. One to plead Guilty, one to make a deal  and one to fight like hell. He messed them up so bad  they gave up. You can’t do that. You CAN give 10 separate reasons why you have a disability. It made a few wins for me. So that’s 10 papers they must Judge. They gave up on about 5 claims and gave the win. Others  won on remand. Wash. DC did give them hell for that. The other is the Hearing. They expect ten minutes and its over. No. I talked like Kissenger in a steady droning voice and read each Law line by line for over one hour. I had this clown up a wall, Mr.Martin, ‘ Do you need a break?’ ‘ Yes, let me just state this first.’ I took NO breaks. He was squirming in the chair and soon as I walked in and seen no Law book, I just knew I  owned his ass. See, you get turned down, but its that first hearing that counts. If you had one demand a new one. They continue to refer to that hearing over and over. I can’t look at mine as I laff  like a Jackass all day. He kept asking, ‘ Ah…where is the Vastus Lateral ? This Tibia Tubercle is on   the upper leg ? I used only Latin medical terms. ‘ I think this is long.’ So what ? Its my life not yours. What a Transcript  ! [G] !! So, state the disability #, part, section, subsection and read the ENTIRE Law to him, also staple it to the claim and on the claim state pages as they like to lose them. Date it, Sign it and state you believe  this is true to  the best of your knowledge and beliefs. Have fun and kick ass ! No Joke, I enjoyed it. You will also later as you see your work function. JP

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Question:

I was expecting that.  It seems you’re uninformed about quite a number of things.  Acceptable use under copyright law allows individuals to copy cd’s such as those borrowed from libraries (as I do) for their own use.

Just for the fun of it… Could you please quote the exact provision which supports your assertion? Thanks. jb

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Alright smart ass (not you, Richard), here’s chapter & verse:  Section 1008 of United States Public Law 102-563, also known as the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, states "No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, ****or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings****."  (emphasis added) Want to look it up?  Go to http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/bad_laws/ahra.html#sect1008. Acceptable or fair use clauses exist not out of the goodness of businessmen’s hearts (and by the way Oren, I would say that with your apparently rosy view of commerce, YOU’RE the one with the loose connection to reality, not me) but because they know it is simply not possible to prevent individuals from doing things like photocopying copyrighted print material, recording cd’s, copying software (look at a software package, why do you think they all "allow" one copy "for backup purposes and personal use") etc. Oren, I only replied to this after seeing Richard’s post and because I think it is germane to the subject of this newsgroup & others will be interested.   I will not be reading let alone responding to anything more you have to say on the topic, as I’m sure the rest of the group would like to GET BACK TO THE MUSIC as I suggested earlier. David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to intrude on this little argument here. But where _exactly_ does it state in "copyright law" that this practice is "acceptable?" Chapter and verse please. In the past 15 years I have recorded hundreds across all genres and no "stealing" involved. Is this your opinion? Or is is it wishful thinking? Don’t bother, Richard — it’s obvious David would rather discuss how things *should* be in Utopia, rather than face facts here on Earth. It’s easier to dodge responsibility and find scapegoats that way.  :) — Win $100 USD for a review of tune(s) @ www.mp3.com/orenzero/

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When did I say I DO???  Perhaps you saw all my other posts on recording cd-r’s? No, but that’s okay. So, are you saying you steal music instead of paying what the seller is asking?

I was expecting that.  It seems you’re uninformed about quite a number of things.  Acceptable use under copyright law allows individuals to copy cd’s such as those borrowed from libraries (as I do) for their own use.  In the past 15 years I have recorded hundreds across all genres and no "stealing" involved. That’s a socialist cop-out, David.

Ahhh, there’s that word again.  What an effective way of dismissing anything that might upset the apple cart,  just label it with a word most that has been propagandized to the negative.  One thing I learned at an early age is when to stop battering one’s head against a brick wall of ignorance.  Back to the music. David

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I was expecting that.  It seems you’re uninformed about quite a number of things.  Acceptable use under copyright law allows individuals to copy cd’s such as those borrowed from libraries (as I do) for their own use.

Where is that outlined in the statute, David?  I missed that part. Ahhh, there’s that word again.  What an effective way of dismissing anything that might upset the apple cart,  just label it with a word most that has been propagandized to the negative.  One thing I learned at an early age is when to stop battering one’s head against a brick wall of ignorance.  Back to the music.

That’s a convenient way to avoid talking about artists’ personal responsibility, I’ll give you that. — Win $100 USD for a review of tune(s) @ www.mp3.com/orenzero/

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I was expecting that.  It seems you’re uninformed about quite a number of things.  Acceptable use under copyright law allows individuals to copy cd’s such as those borrowed from libraries (as I do) for their own use.

Sorry to intrude on this little argument here. But where _exactly_ does it state in "copyright law" that this practice is "acceptable?" Chapter and verse please. In the past 15 years I have recorded hundreds across all genres and no

"stealing" involved. Is this your opinion? Or is is it wishful thinking? Richard White — Hear Linda Ronstadt sing Richard White on

Question:

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Professionals often have such an overwhelming advantage in terms of knowledge that the client (or patient) has little effective power of choice.  That is why we are licensed and regulated. I agree.  That’s especially true when the client isn’t informed of the benefits the CPA will receive if the client pursues Action A, especially if the client believes that he is the only one compensating the CPA.

Ed, Thanks for some very insightful comments. Many years ago, while still flying for money, I took a college course taught by an attorney / pilot dealing with aviation law.  One of the ideas that stuck was the concept of absolute liability.  The idea, with regards to aviation, was that some things are so outrageously dangerous that indulging in them could create "absolute liability".  The Latin term used by this attorney / professor was RES IPSA LO QUTUR, which translates to English as "the thing (act) speaks for itself". I believe this concept is also applicable to professional conduct when the professional is dealing with a client who has limited capacity, as could be the case where a tax preparer is working with elderly people in their declining years. In order to illustrate the law, I copy pasted the following from http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.negl.html. UNDERSTANDING THE DOCTRINE OF RES IPSA LO QUTUR Negligence can be proven with circumstantial evidence and one type is res ipsa loquitur. This is a Latin term which means, "the thing (act) speaks for itself. There must be four elements present to prove or show negligence with this doctrine. They are: a) The accident could not have ordinarily occurred without someone being negligent. b) The accident is caused by an instrumentality within the exclusive control of the defendant. c) The injured party (plaintiff) did not contribute to the negligence. d) The evidence as to the explanation of the accident is more available to the defendant than to the plaintiff. If we substitute "loss" for "accident", not a stretch at all, we have language that fits a malpractice situation.  Further, let us assume a situation where a CPA sells front-loaded mutual funds to a tax client known to have diminished capacity.  After the sale the market crashes, leaving the CPA with a nice commission and the client with a nasty loss. In my opinion, given our long-standing public commitment to integrity and independence, this client has a reasonable claim that the CPA should be liable for the loss. As a general rule, I don’t go looking for opportunities to help sue fellow accountants, however there are exceptions and the above is one of them. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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But, to carry on the devil’s advocate role, the argument is that there exist incentives to "cheat" the client (and/or sell unneeded products and services) in all compensation models and that the ethical (both formal/regulatory and simple moral stature) makeup of the individual is what has to control those impulses.  Which is correct as far as it goes. Well, it takes two to tango. Any proposal can be refused by the client – CPAs do not possess any specific abilities to overpower the volitional control of clients or their power of choice.

I am prone to agree with Harry.  CPAs aren’t that powerful and even when clients somehow think the CPA is bigger than life, they probably get better treatmnet than from other industries. Banks have known in tremendous detail, your buying and selling for decades, and used it in many ways.  The world didn’t end… In fact the marketing industry has great detailed info. on everybody already and there’s no big outcry. Keep in mind, many people and businesses WANT to receive offers as long as those are things of interest to them.  When marketers really know your needs, you start getting better ads.  I get some free mags. that are really first rate. ‘odd

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But, to carry on the devil’s advocate role, the argument is that there exist incentives to "cheat" the client (and/or sell unneeded products and services) in all compensation models and that the ethical (both formal/regulatory and simple moral stature) makeup of the individual is what has to control those impulses.  Which is correct as far as it goes. Well, it takes two to tango. Any proposal can be refused by the client – CPAs do not possess any specific abilities to overpower the volitional control of clients or their power of choice. I am prone to agree with Harry.  CPAs aren’t that powerful and even when clients somehow think the CPA is bigger than life, they probably get better treatmnet than from other industries. Banks have known in tremendous detail, your buying and selling for decades, and used it in many ways.  The world didn’t end… In fact the marketing industry has great detailed info. on everybody already and there’s no big outcry. Keep in mind, many people and businesses WANT to receive offers as long as those are things of interest to them.  When marketers really know your needs, you start getting better ads.  I get some free mags. that are really first rate. ‘odd

Speaking about banks, have all of you given your CPA clients the privacy disclosure forms required by the FTC by June 30? These relate to tax preparers having been classified as financial institutions, possibly due to the prevalence of this type of marketing. I wonder how quickly the H&R Blocks (no relation) will comply with this rule?      Mike Block – Tax Cut CPA  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester     FREE  NetLedger accounting   FREE 462p QB books/error codes 100+ QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

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Speaking about banks, have all of you given your CPA clients the privacy disclosure forms required by the FTC by June 30?

It is is on the short to do list.  I wonder how quickly the H&R Blocks (no relation) will comply with this rule?

Most likely by 6/30/2001. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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Mike Block said, Speaking about banks, have all of you given your CPA clients the privacy disclosure forms required by the FTC by June 30? These relate to tax preparers having been classified as financial institutions, possibly due to the prevalence of this type of marketing. I wonder how quickly the H&R Blocks (no relation) will comply with this rule?

Heh heh!  Since taking my metadata pledge I am no longer subject to these things.  With great satisfaction this year I sent back my QAR form to the Wash. BOard of Accountancy as well, marked no attestation this year!     And my fees are up by 100% since moving into XML and webledger consulting.  That’s what happens when you do what the market is telling you to do, instead of following the habitual patterns of the past decades before computers, TOdd http://www.gldialtone.com/MetadataPledge.htm

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Heh heh!  Since taking my metadata pledge I am no longer subject to these things.  With great satisfaction this year I sent back my QAR form to the Wash. BOard of Accountancy as well, marked no attestation this year!    

Well, maybe not so quick on that last point.  You noted the following in your pledge: "If the statement is wrong or has insufficient drilldown for him to understand, well, that’s MY job, to fix." If you fix the statement because it’s wrong, I suspect that clearly under the pre-SSARS 8 accounting and review standards *AND* possibly even under the post-SSARS 8 standards (if you believe the Compilation/Review Alert’s asterisk) you may have been required to perform an attest service on the statements. Don’t bother with little details like *HOW* you go about attaching a report to an XML based report <grin, the issue is that it appears you needed to do it. Second, because the tax preparer provision also includes tax planning, it’s a lot easier to trip the FTC rule than you might expect.

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Ed Zollars said, "If the statement is wrong or has insufficient drilldown for him to understand, well, that’s MY job, to fix." If you fix the statement because it’s wrong, I suspect that clearly under the pre-SSARS 8 accounting and review standards *AND* possibly even under the post-SSARS 8 standards (if you

Ed! Thanks for the correction–and the warning.  I will rephrase my metadata pledge. Accounting systems are designed and configured for the purpose of generating financial statements.  Owners have a right to collect informaiton about transactions they have executed and to print reports and summaries to their hearts’ content. If an accounting system creates financial statements that are incorrect from the data entered by users, or do not provide sufficient functionality for the reader to drilldown into the information to answer their questions, that is my job to fix. If the government wants to come after me for working on accounting software, I will be very surprised.  Who knows. I have been surprised before.   Ed –Is there some presumption I am allowing my name to be associatd with these financial statements?  That would be quite a stretch, for a webledger vendor who provides accounting software systems, no accounting services, and doesn’t even know the client and has never even seen his data! Todd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heh heh!  Since taking my metadata pledge I am no longer subject to these things.  With great satisfaction this year I sent back my QAR form to the Wash. BOard of Accountancy as well, marked no attestation this year!     Well, maybe not so quick on that last point.  You noted the following in your pledge: "If the statement is wrong or has insufficient drilldown for him to understand, well, that’s MY job, to fix." If you fix the statement because it’s wrong, I suspect that clearly under the pre-SSARS 8 accounting and review standards *AND* possibly even under the post-SSARS 8 standards (if you believe the Compilation/Review Alert’s asterisk) you may have been required to perform an attest service on the statements. Don’t bother with little details like *HOW* you go about attaching a report to an XML based report <grin, the issue is that it appears you needed to do it. Second, because the tax preparer provision also includes tax planning, it’s a lot easier to trip the FTC rule than you might expect.

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Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Professionals often have such an overwhelming advantage in terms of knowledge that the client (or patient) has little effective power of choice.  That is why we are licensed and regulated.

I agree.  That’s especially true when the client isn’t informed of the benefits the CPA will receive if the client pursues Action A, especially if the client believes that he is the only one compensating the CPA.  I have a lot less trouble with *fully disclosed* commissions–and by that I don’t mean disclosed in a manner that meets the legal requirements but is structured to attempt to "slide" it by the client (the "fine print" method, including a paragraph buried in an engagement letter), but I mean openly discussed just as any other fee would be. I doubt any CPA would openly defend an "it’s OK if helps more than hurts" standard.  Some certainly practice that way, but I know of very few who talk that way, even in private.

The problem with "it’s OK if it helps more than it hurts" is that it’s very easy to rationalize any situation so that you believe that.  I’ve found that most financial service providers (I mean mutual fund companies, insurance companies, brokerages, etc.) spend a lot of time "stroking" the sales force to help them believe that whatever they do helps more than it hurts those they are selling to. This isn’t about the efficacy of commissions.  

I would put it this way–whether they are effective or not, I have trouble accepting a payment that is *expected* to have an influence on my behavior so that I look out for the interest of the paying party as opposed to the client. Using the logic of efficacy, a politician accepting favors would be "OK" so long as the politician could convince himself that they had no impact on his actions.  As a practical matter, I expect that even those that have accepted the largest bribes have managed to convince themselves that this is the case.

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Well, it takes two to tango. Any proposal can be refused by the client – CPAs do not possess any specific abilities to overpower the volitional control of clients or their power of choice.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Professionals often have such an overwhelming advantage in terms of knowledge that the client (or patient) has little effective power of choice.  That is why we are licensed and regulated. But I think it’s also very important to watch ourselves to see when we are rationalizing away potentially harmful behavior. Definitely – but nobody is perfect. I think the essential evaluation factor here is simply "are you helping the client more than harming him?" And I’m confident you are – and CPAs are.

While some of our members have difficulty "walking the walk", for the most part we all still "talk the talk".  We persistently claim follow a Code of Professional Conduct which stresses independence, integrity, objectivity, technical competence and adherence to professional standards. I doubt any CPA would openly defend an "it’s OK if helps more than hurts" standard.  Some certainly practice that way, but I know of very few who talk that way, even in private. BTW – the fact that sales commissions are paid isn’t a proof that they work or would cause "excessive selling" <grin. In fact, what I’ve found is that it’s more a question of wishful thinking on the management’s side (SME especially).

This isn’t about the efficacy of commissions.  It is about knowing who and what we serve.  When we claim to be working on behalf of a client we should not willing permit ourselves to be distracted.  There are enough conflicts without inviting them. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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Of course you could.  So could I.  I doubt you would.  I know I wouldn’t.

But, to carry on the devil’s advocate role, the argument is that there exist incentives to "cheat" the client (and/or sell unneeded products and services) in all compensation models and that the ethical (both formal/regulatory and simple moral stature) makeup of the individual is what has to control those impulses.  Which is correct as far as it goes. But I think it’s also very important to watch ourselves to see when we are rationalizing away potentially harmful behavior.  And that includes asking whether we don’t have a real bias (conscious or unconscious) towards proposing solutions that will give us a benefit vs. solutions that might be more appropriate but for which we won’t receive compensation.  And that’s true whether the solution relates to tax planning services *OR* life insurance policies.

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 I think it’s also very important to watch ourselves to see when we are rationalizing away potentially harmful behavior.  And that includes asking whether we don’t have a real bias (conscious or unconscious) towards proposing solutions that will give us a benefit vs. solutions that might be more appropriate but for which we won’t receive compensation.  And that’s true whether the solution relates to tax planning services *OR* life insurance policies.

Agreed. and lead us not into temptation, but save us from evil. Matthew 6 – 13 — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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Of course you could.  So could I.  I doubt you would.  I know I wouldn’t. But, to carry on the devil’s advocate role, the argument is that there exist incentives to "cheat" the client (and/or sell unneeded products and services) in all compensation models and that the ethical (both formal/regulatory and simple moral stature) makeup of the individual is what has to control those impulses.  Which is correct as far as it goes.

Well, it takes two to tango. Any proposal can be refused by the client – CPAs do not possess any specific abilities to overpower the volitional control of clients or their power of choice. But I think it’s also very important to watch ourselves to see when we are rationalizing away potentially harmful behavior.

Definitely – but nobody is perfect. I think the essential evaluation factor here is simply "are you helping the client more than harming him?" And I’m confident you are – and CPAs are.  And that includes asking whether we don’t have a real bias (conscious or unconscious) towards proposing solutions that will give us a benefit vs. solutions that might be more appropriate but for which we won’t receive compensation.  And that’s true whether the solution relates to tax planning services *OR* life insurance policies.

BTW – the fact that sales commissions are paid isn’t a proof that they work or would cause "excessive selling" <grin. In fact, what I’ve found is that it’s more a question of wishful thinking on the management’s side (SME especially). I think the basic fundamental problem of this "sell or not sell" issue has an additiona vector  or dimension. You cannot accurately evaluate this without taking number of clients and rate of expansion (growth of client base) into the equation. Simply, if the number of clients remains the same, but sales ($) goes up, then definitely you are approaching the point where you are selling too much to each client. To keep this at a healthy level, NEW clients would be needed — in other words, sales has to act on two fronts: 1) Finding / sigining on NEW clients 2) Analyzing the needs of existing clients and offering them needed services based on those findings. I understand the ethical concern but simplified, it just means the CPA would have to SELF be certain that the service will benefit the client more than "harm" (expense) him. I don’t really believe there are all that many "cheaters" and "cheated." I firmly believes most of the business activity works on the intention to offer valuable services that benefit the client. Best wishes Harry http://www.cpamarketingtips.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, I think the "much more" is just bad advertising copy – a meaningless addition many of use tend to add on to such presentations of benefits just in case we missed something. I don’t know these guys and I received the same e-mail. But it doesn’t seem like it necessarily has bad intentions. As Ed elsewhere explains in a much more learned way, they probably just mean that by having access to the clients data, you can analyze it with the purpose of finding whether he has some problem he doesn’t KNOW about. With an existing client, the trust factor is much higher than with potential clients — and often all you need to do is to POINT OUT he may have a problem that has now been noticed… and he will want it handled. Self-serving as it may seem — for I am a seller <grin — the activity of sales isn’t usually one of bad intention. The basic purpose of any service provider is to HELP his clients to succeed better — and the basic goal of clients is (or should be) to attain a higher degree of success. But the problem that hasn’t been found, cannot be solved. Found problems can and the obvious choice for solving it (in lieau of a fee) would be the CPA that found it. Most clients appreciate you finding such a problem, provided it is communicated to him in a correct way. I would assume that’s what this message is basically talking about — but they’ve tried to present it as a sales opportunity and as such, their approach appears to suggest a breach. But again – I don’t know these guys… just commenting on their copy based on my own understanding of it. Best wishes Harry Kafka

Harry, Thanks for the comments. While I recognize that sales is a necessary element of modern life, I am greatly troubled by the level of commercial intrusions into professional services we are presently enduring. Yes, I agree with Ed that professionals do (and should) analyze data available to them for the benefit of their clients.  What I am objecting to is the notion that a primary reason for seeking access to such data is to acquire sales opportunities. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

Our first doctor is a professional first and a merchant of necessity. Our second doctor is using his professional status to facilitate his merchandising. Correct as far as it goes, though I suspect that most professionals would *see* themselves as being part of the first group rather than the second.  Since "someone" would get the commission anyway (which presupposes the client would buy it absent the CPA pushing), the rationalization would go that it doesn’t harm the client at all for the CPA to collect that fee.

I plan to stay in the first group. Under the right circumstances some people can rationalize just about anything. In his own mind Tim McViegh was justified in blowing up the Federal building. I doubt either of us would agree with him.  The jury certainly didn’t. And, to give the devil his due, some would argue that the same example could use "standard" services rather than merchandise (or financial products).  For instance, I’m perfectly aware that people react irrationally to taxes, and that I can use the "save taxes" mantra to sell a lot of services that don’t make economic sense (they end up leaving the client net poorer than simply paying the tax).

Of course you could.  So could I.  I doubt you would.  I know I wouldn’t. A real problem I have, though, is that I know why *my* clients pay commissions to their sales forces–and that’s because they expect the commissions to have a certain behavioral impact on the salesperson to get him/her to sell more product than they otherwise would.  If it truly had no behavioral impact, my clients would likely not pay commissions at all.  I have trouble believing that the financial services industry doesn’t believe the same thing–that paying commissions to the CPA affects his/her recommendation in favor of their products.

Charles Keating was asked if he thought his political contributions bought him political favors. His response – "I sure hope so". Of course they believe commissions are effective – otherwise they wouldn’t pay them. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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Our first doctor is a professional first and a merchant of necessity. Our second doctor is using his professional status to facilitate his merchandising.

Correct as far as it goes, though I suspect that most professionals would *see* themselves as being part of the first group rather than the second.  Since "someone" would get the commission anyway (which presupposes the client would buy it absent the CPA pushing), the rationalization would go that it doesn’t harm the client at all for the CPA to collect that fee. And, to give the devil his due, some would argue that the same example could use "standard" services rather than merchandise (or financial products).  For instance, I’m perfectly aware that people react irrationally to taxes, and that I can use the "save taxes" mantra to sell a lot of services that don’t make economic sense (they end up leaving the client net poorer than simply paying the tax). A real problem I have, though, is that I know why *my* clients pay commissions to their sales forces–and that’s because they expect the commissions to have a certain behavioral impact on the salesperson to get him/her to sell more product than they otherwise would.  If it truly had no behavioral impact, my clients would likely not pay commissions at all.  I have trouble believing that the financial services industry doesn’t believe the same thing–that paying commissions to the CPA affects his/her recommendation in favor of their products.

Response:

Yes, I agree with Ed that professionals do (and should) analyze data available to them for the benefit of their clients.  What I am objecting to is the notion that a primary reason for seeking access to such data is to acquire sales opportunities.

Though I understand (and share) many of your concerns, I will play devil’s advocate here.  That is, what is the fundamental difference between me informing a client that he could benefit from establishing a family limited partnership (even though the client didn’t consult you about estate planning specifically) and informing the client that he might benefit from another financial product or service?  That is, aren’t both of these cases of *selling* additional products or services to clients? My real problem involves a) selling products and services that I truly do not the same type of experience that I do with other parts of my practice and b) working with compensation arrangements that have different biases depending on the type of work involved.  Note that all compensation mechanisms have biases built in–but it’s tougher on the client when those biases shift on the fly. The first issue is my real problem–in too many cases, what is really being asked of the CPA, attorney, whomever is to essentially transfer the data to an outside party and/or to make "canned" sales.  The problem is that this is a fundamental shift in how we normally work.  Normally I select from the entire universe of tax planning options to customize something for a client’s problem.  But in many of these financial services engagements, I’m specifically dealing only with a limited subset of potential options the client might select–and I *cannot* select from certain options (or at least cannot if I plan to be paid for my services).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I agree with Ed that professionals do (and should) analyze data available to them for the benefit of their clients.  What I am objecting to is the notion that a primary reason for seeking access to such data is to acquire sales opportunities. Though I understand (and share) many of your concerns, I will play devil’s advocate here.  That is, what is the fundamental difference between me informing a client that he could benefit from establishing a family limited partnership (even though the client didn’t consult you about estate planning specifically) and informing the client that he might benefit from another financial product or service?  That is, aren’t both of these cases of *selling* additional products or services to clients?

Ed, The difference is not the product or service, but the motivation behind the professional involved. It is often easier to understand these things with a non personal example.  For that purpose, let us assume a couple of 19th century country doctors. Our first country doctor makes house calls, delivers babies, sets bone breaks, etc., etc.  He goes to a medical convention and hears about some new and wonderful drugs. There is no place in his community where these drugs can be purchased, so he sets up a small pharmacy.  He sets his prices so that he can cover his cost and overhead and make a modest profit.  His purpose it to provide the best medical care possible to his community. Our second country doctor does all the same things, except that when he goes to the medical conference he sees the new drugs and realizes that he has a captive market that will pay big bucks for these new drugs.  He returns home, sets up a pharmacy, prescribes the maximum drugs possible at the highest prices possible.  He is concerned that the community remain healthy enough to continue to support his pharmacy. Our first doctor is a professional first and a merchant of necessity. Our second doctor is using his professional status to facilitate his merchandising. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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… The first issue is my real problem–in too many cases, what is really being asked of the CPA, …

Is to sell a commission product to his "natural market."  It goes downhill form there…… I would find it very hard to sell most of these products to one of my clients, IF I was in public practice, simply because I have always been able to put together a better package on my own.  There is a reason why these "products" have to be SOLD. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *   Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia       * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following is an excerpt from a solicitation that just arrived in my ebox. For accountants only:  This is an invitation to listen in on a FREE Teleconference on Application Service Provider (ASP) technology and outsourced on line accounting. <snip Learn how to increase revenue by… <snip

Question:

What I need: I am looking for a book / article / study that shows whether or not leading software companies capitalized some of their software development costs or expensed all of their software development costs in 1998. What I’ve Found So Far: + I have looked at about 10 annual reports of software companies and I am finding that companies used to capitalize software, but have stopped doing so in recent years: 97 & 98. + It appears that only small players use software capitalization to protect reported earnings.  Capitalization appears futile as financial analysts remove capitalized software costs from the balance sheet in judging economic performance and issuing buy/sell recommendations.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I need: I am looking for a book / article / study that shows whether or not leading software companies capitalized some of their software development costs or expensed all of their software development costs in 1998. —– What I’ve Found So Far: + I have looked at about 10 annual reports of software companies and I am finding that companies used to capitalize software, but have stopped doing so in recent years: 97 & 98. + It appears that only small players use software capitalization to protect reported earnings.  Capitalization appears futile as financial analysts remove capitalized software costs from the balance sheet in judging economic performance and issuing buy/sell recommendations.

The AICPA publishes Accounting Trends and Techniques. It deals statistically and with examples that show how the Fortune 500 or so treat many such issues. Good libraries and larger CPA firms should have it. There also are RMA publications that MIGHT help with this.   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.              World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

Response:

The point here is that software R&D works are no longer justified for capitalisation under International Accounting standards and other similar standards in western world. One can only justify to do so if the R&D work has commercial value which in the software world is less predictable nowadays. These days softwares’ product cycle are short – too short for any company to envisage a fruitful harvest…..of course except perhaps MS. Even MS is facing a lot of challenges from, say, Linus for its NT; office suites from WEB-based software leasing concept etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I need: I am looking for a book / article / study that shows whether or not leading software companies capitalized some of their software development costs or expensed all of their software development costs in 1998. What I’ve Found So Far: + I have looked at about 10 annual reports of software companies and I am finding that companies used to capitalize software, but have stopped doing so in recent years: 97 & 98. + It appears that only small players use software capitalization to protect reported earnings.  Capitalization appears futile as financial analysts remove capitalized software costs from the balance sheet in judging economic performance and issuing buy/sell recommendations.

Response:

Question:

Need an accounting and IT consultant in Dallas,TX. $18 million company there needs someone LOCAL to handle both the accounting software and hardware (computers and network) for a new IT setup. This company needs help in identifying its info needs, selecting the right accounting software, developing the appropriate reports, etc. The client is looking for a long-term relationship, not an in-and-out deal.

You may want to investigate http://www.excelco.com where there is info and a POWERFUL tool for establishing needs and matching needs with appropriate solutions. Hardware/network setup will be fairly straightforward. Some old desktop computers that will have to be replaced, and a new network installed. Also have to arrange for reports and data to go to/from several regional offices, field salespeople, etc. Contact: Alex Auerbach Tel: 818-501-4221 (California time, don’t call before        10 a.m. Texas time.) Fax: 818-501-7825

– John Mosier,  excelco    voice: (800) 553-6911      fax: (602) 992-2026 2990 E. Northern, A-101  voice: (602) 992-8076 Phoenix, AZ 85028        http://excelco.com/ Accounting System Selector                          http://www.swinfo.com

Response:

Need an accounting and IT consultant in Dallas,TX. $18 million company there needs someone LOCAL to handle both the accounting software and hardware (computers and network) for a new IT setup. OK for an accountant and IT consultant to team up. This company needs help in identifying its info needs, selecting the right accounting software, developing the appropriate reports, etc. The client is looking for a long-term relationship, not an in-and-out deal. Hardware/network setup will be fairly straightforward. Some old desktop computers that will have to be replaced, and a new network installed. Also have to arrange for reports and data to go to/from several regional offices, field salespeople, etc. Contact: Alex Auerbach Tel: 818-501-4221 (California time, don’t call before        10 a.m. Texas time.) Fax: 818-501-7825

Response:

Question:

Here’s a problem I haven’t seen addressed recently, but one I find myself faced with:   what do you do with charts you bought many years ago, that do not hold any appeal whatsoever to you now?   Throw them out?   Give them away?   Insights?

My EGA group fixed that problem we have a silnt accution. And my cross stitch group that I see on Thur. nights we bring in all the ones we don’t want any more and trade with the others in the group and we have a couple who only do kits so we corupt them get them into charts. Tealin

Response:

Nan – I don’t want a 12-step program, just a club!!  No sir, I would not give up my stash for anything, I’d just like to be able to actually use it all! Brandy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Is there a stash-o-holic club I can join?  I think I need it! No, Brandy, there is no 12-step program for stashoholics. Whenever anyone mentions it, we gently talk her/him out even thinking of such an unworkable idea, because who’d join? Certainly none of us!  LOL! Nan Evelyn

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I agree with Greta: I NEVER COUNT THEM!  That’s a big no-no!   1)  never clean craft closet/room  with others present 2)  never take a count (therefore no guilt!) My DH would have a heart attack if he knew the extent of my stash!  Right now, he only thinks he knows   But how do you resist those wonderful designs?? I don’t.  Consider it cheap(?) therapy. Lisa Contratto delete notrash for email

My DH too would have a fit if he knew what was in the drawers under his bed. He thinks it is bedlinen, that is just the top layer to hide my stash under. VBG. — Shirley Shone

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Here’s a problem I haven’t seen addressed recently, but one I find myself faced with:   what do you do with charts you bought many years ago, that do not hold any appeal whatsoever to you now?   Throw them out?   Give them away?   Insights? Thank you, Norma

     What I have done successfully is to post on rctn, and ask if anyone is interested.  If you only have one, you have to decided who gets it, if you get more than one reply.  If no-one on rctn wants one of them, its probably safe to throw it away. — Jim Cripwell.  And oh my darling! Oh my pet!    From The Gondoliers                Whatever else you may forget,            by                In yonder land, beyond the sea, Gilbert and                Do not forget you married me.             Sullivan.

Response:

Your local guild will probably take them – don’t throw them away!  Unless of course they are in bad shape.  Or try trading, posting or selling to a used book store.  Some needlework shops buy popular OOP patterns. Charly Saskatoon, Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Here’s a problem I haven’t seen addressed recently, but one I find myself faced with:   what do you do with charts you bought many years ago, that do not hold any appeal whatsoever to you now?   Throw them out?   Give them away?   Insights? Thank you, Norma

Response:

Nan – I don’t want a 12-step program, just a club!!  No sir, I would not give up my stash for anything, I’d just like to be able to actually use it all!

There you go, Brandy, that’s the idea. A club, in order to bop silly people who try to suggest not adding to the stash, or even trimming it!  :-) Nan Evelyn

Response:

The meeting is at my home at 7 p.m. next … well, let’s set a date!!! Gentle as you go, Marny   in sunny southern California … the San Diego area … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Is there a stash-o-holic club I can join?  I think I need it!

Response:

One of my Favorite quotes:  "You don’t have to finish but you can never quit." Enjoying all my SOS immensely … and ADDing to it all the time! <gg Gentle as you go, Marny   ADDorable … and whose oldest remembered UFO is a stamped tablecloth and 12 napkins from 1959-1960’s…

Response:

So, tonight I sat down and made a list of all my projects.  I have no less than SEVENTY! Yes! 7-0!!  And I want to do ALL of them!  I organized them from most important to least important (of course, started projects are at the top of the list!).  And of course most of them are large!  A couple TWs, a couple not so hard but really big ones, a couple Marty Bells.  A couple Forget-Me-Nots in stitches with oodles of pages of instructions… You get the picture!  How do you all deal with this?  I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)!  I can’t even imagine how long it will take just to do the ones I have! And then I hear about the new Mirabilia, and the new TW’s, not to mention the ones that haven’t made it to leaflet form yet!  Is there a stash-o-holic club I can join?  I think I need it!

Response:

So, tonight I sat down and made a list of all my projects.  I have no less than SEVENTY! Yes! 7-0!!  And I want to do ALL of them!  I organized them from most important to least important (of course, started projects are at the top of the list!).

Hahahahahaha, I laughed out loud at this one … ONLY 70!!  My name is Anne, and I am a stash-a-holic – I’m not even going to admit on the BB just how many I own, but it’s definitely in the hundreds. I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)!

I have to admit, some charts I know I’ll never stitch, but I just adore looking at them … and I know from previous posters that I’m not alone in this obsession )  I think part of the reason I have so many charts (apart from the fact that I truly AM obsessed with them) is that a lot of them I bought ‘early on’ in my XSing ‘career’ – and in fact I was just talking of getting rid of a lot of the older ones that I find are now too ‘cutesy’ for me.  As I’ve expanded my stitching desires, my chart tastes have also evolved, and I know now that I’ll probably never stitch (nor want to stitch) some of these charts, and I might as well give them up to someone who does. My TW’s, Mirabilia’s and JustNan-type charts are not leaving this building though )  Guess with so many charts … and I fully intend increasing it even further at HOCS this year … maybe I’m now the "Grandma-of-Stash" – it’s my own personal library that I just love poring over.  Like you, though, I’ve started having a ringbinder folder holding the ‘next in line’ projects that I want to stitch – it’ll take me 10 years just to stitch them, never mind the other hundreds! Cheers, Anne in NZ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -. ONLY 70!!  My name is Anne, and I am a stash-a-holic – I’m not even going to admit on the BB just how many I own, but it’s definitely in the hundreds. I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)! I have to admit, some charts I know I’ll never stitch, but I just adore looking at them … and I know from previous posters that I’m not alone in this obsession )  I think part of the reason I have so many charts (apart from the fact that I truly AM obsessed with them) is that a lot of them I bought ‘early on’ in my XSing ‘career’ – and in fact I was just talking of getting rid of a lot of the older ones that I find are now too ‘cutesy’ for me.  As I’ve expanded my stitching desires, my chart tastes have also evolved, and I know now that I’ll probably never stitch (nor want to stitch) some of these charts, and I might as well give them up to someone who does.

I can’t believe it. It could have been me writing that letter. No way would I dare to count up the kits /charts that I have ready to start. Someone to whom I showed my stash said I should open a shop as I already had enough  stock:-) Carol-Ann London, England

Response:

How do you all deal with this?  I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)!

I NEVER COUNT THEM!  That’s a big no-no!   1)  never clean craft closet/room  with others present 2)  never take a count (therefore no guilt!) Greta

Response:

I agree with Greta: I NEVER COUNT THEM!  That’s a big no-no!   1)  never clean craft closet/room  with others present 2)  never take a count (therefore no guilt!)

My DH would have a heart attack if he knew the extent of my stash!  Right now, he only thinks he knows   But how do you resist those wonderful designs?? I don’t.  Consider it cheap(?) therapy. Lisa Contratto delete notrash for email

Response:

So, tonight I sat down and made a list of all my projects.  I have no less than SEVENTY! Yes! 7-0!!  And I want to do ALL of them!  I

I want to do all of mine too.  I don’t buy charts unless I want to stitch them… but I have so many more than I could ever possibly stitch… but I really do intend to stitch them all… and there are so many more I absolutely have to have… and I really do intend to stitch them too… Well, that settles it.  I’ll just have to live another 165 years.  :-) You can join George’s Chart Collectors and Chocoholics Society. — Susan K. in MA X/USA/H/-/-/1C/1R/Cross My Heart ornament JCS XMAS 98/KXNC/28E/D/:-p~/0/M/B/b-/R-/S+/K/E/-/-/W-/C?/J+/Kenneth Brannagh/Jane Austen/Bittersweet Chocolate

Response:

with this?  I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)!  I

I *want* to do all of my charts, too.  That’s my rule for buying them– I have to want to do them and imagine doing them.  That’s why I only have 5 file boxes full.  :-) Kathy —  Counted Cross Stitch, Needlework and Stitchery Page                             <http://www.ncal.verio.com/~kdyer/xstitch.html  Livermore Valley Opera     <http://www.ncal.verio.com/~kdyer/lvo/      "Time has little to do with infinity and jelly doughnuts."

Response:

Hahahahahaha, I laughed out loud at this one … ONLY 70!!  My name is Anne, and I am a stash-a-holic – I’m not even going to admit on the BB just how many I own, but it’s definitely in the hundreds.

The problem is I’m only 20!  How could I have accumulated so much already!?! I guess if I stitch till I die!!  And as for the cutesy stuff, I don’t even own anything like those "one-nighters" or anything like that!  I think the answer may be to have as many started as possible. Yeah that’s it. WAIT! Just gave me a great idea!  Could teach my boyfriend to stitch "his" projects.  Yep.  Could this be the solution?? Brandy

Response:

I didn’t get Greta’s post!  I’ll have to go look it up on Dejanews! Well, I’m a student, and I live in my apartment by myself.  My cat is the only witness to the true extent of my stash.  I only counted because I made a list in a database, and it told me how many automatically!  I guess I will know which ones I didn’t really want to stitch in ten years! Brandy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with Greta: I NEVER COUNT THEM!  That’s a big no-no! 1)  never clean craft closet/room  with others present 2)  never take a count (therefore no guilt!) My DH would have a heart attack if he knew the extent of my stash!  Right now, he only thinks he knows   But how do you resist those wonderful designs?? I don’t.  Consider it cheap(?) therapy. Lisa Contratto delete notrash for email

Response:

    <snip Is there a stash-o-holic club I can join?  I think I need it!

No, Brandy, there is no 12-step program for stashoholics. Whenever anyone mentions it, we gently talk her/him out even thinking of such an unworkable idea, because who’d join? Certainly none of us!  LOL! Nan Evelyn

Response:

How do you all deal with this?  I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)! I NEVER COUNT THEM!  That’s a big no-no!   1)  never clean craft closet/room  with others present

Because of lack of space I only have under-the-dining-table for stash. It’s amazing how much stuff you can get under one of those things if you really try.  I don’t sort it out while vdbf is around because he asks stupid questions to which there is no answer like – why do you have so many bits of the same material? and if you have 2 and a half boxes of "string" already why do you keep having to go out for more.  Luckily he never asks the killer questions i.e. how much did all that cost and do you think you will ever use it all. 2)  never take a count (therefore no guilt!)

I won’t feel guilty until the table actually leaves the ground! Hopefully either we will have moved to somewhere bigger or some of the children will have left home before that happens. stef -Hounslow, England

Response:

Is there a stash-o-holic club I can join?  I think I need it!

Why would you ever need such an animal?  I didn’t think you could ever have too much. <G

Response:

    <snip I don’t sort it out while vdbf is around because he asks stupid questions to which there is no answer like – why do you have so many bits of the same material? and if you have 2 and a half boxes of "string" already why do you keep having to go out for more.  Luckily he never asks the killer questions i.e. how much did all that cost and do you think you will ever use it all.

Some possible answers to consider for those pesky VDBF/DH/DSO/DSLO-type questions: "Why in the world would you want to know that, Sweetheart?" "This is a hobby, Honey, not a business–the accounting is different!" "You know, Darling, I could be wrong, but you seem to have the odd idea that my hobby activities need your approval. Can we talk about this?" M.F.K. Fisher’s advice about getting what you want from a man is to talk to him about it right after he’s been well-fed, preferably on beef.  Seems to me a well-fed woman is also likely to be more tractable than a hungry one. I am, anyway. <Vbg Nan Evelyn

Response:

HAHAHAHA.  I get you there!  I have also an incredible number of large, detailed (TW’s Miribelia’s, Cross*My*Hearts) to do, 99% of which are for other people.  I’m not yet 30 and my "collection" has only recently begun to grow.  In the last year alone I have purchased almost 70 patterns.  I sure wish I could get hubby to stitch – I keep trying .  I’m thinking about chopping the patterns up for Round Robin projects.  Problem with that is that I’d have to supply all the floss so that I’d be sure of die lots. Just a thought. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The problem is I’m only 20!  How could I have accumulated so much already!?! I guess if I stitch till I die!!  And as for the cutesy stuff, I don’t even own anything like those "one-nighters" or anything like that!  I think the answer may be to have as many started as possible. Yeah that’s it. WAIT! Just gave me a great idea!  Could teach my boyfriend to stitch "his" projects.  Yep.  Could this be the solution?? Brandy

Response:

Your big mistake wasn’t in buying them it was in counting them. I will not count mine – I just know there’s quite a few.  I too spred them out and try to decide which will be the next few I’ll do (which I may reorder again a week later).  I never go past three or four so I don’t have to face the implications of the total number. I figure if I don’t get them now they might not be available later.   I don’t drink or smoke or do drugs so I figure I’m entitled to this vice. Alda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight I sat down and made a list of all my projects.  I have no less than SEVENTY! Yes! 7-0!!  And I want to do ALL of them!  I organized them from most important to least important (of course, started projects are at the top of the list!).  And of course most of them are large!  A couple TWs, a couple not so hard but really big ones, a couple Marty Bells.  A couple Forget-Me-Nots in stitches with oodles of pages of instructions… You get the picture!  How do you all deal with this?  I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)!  I can’t even imagine how long it will take just to do the ones I have! And then I hear about the new Mirabilia, and the new TW’s, not to mention the ones that haven’t made it to leaflet form yet!  Is there a stash-o-holic club I can join?  I think I need it!

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: How do you all deal :with this?  I don’t collect my charts to just look at them!  I want to :do them ALL (and I have fabric & supplies for a lot of them, too!)! : :I NEVER COUNT THEM!  That’s a big no-no! :1)  never clean craft closet/room  with others present : :Because of lack of space I only have under-the-dining-table for stash. :It’s amazing how much stuff you can get under one of those things if you :really try.  I don’t sort it out while vdbf is around because he asks :stupid questions to which there is no answer like – why do you have so :many bits of the same material? and if you have 2 and a half boxes of :"string" already why do you keep having to go out for more.  Luckily he :never asks the killer questions i.e. how much did all that cost and do :you think you will ever use it all. : :2)  never take a count (therefore no guilt!) : :I won’t feel guilty until the table actually leaves the ground! :Hopefully either we will have moved to somewhere bigger or some of the :children will have left home before that happens. :stef -Hounslow, England : Here’s a problem I haven’t seen addressed recently, but one I find myself faced with:   what do you do with charts you bought many years ago, that do not hold any appeal whatsoever to you now?   Throw them out?   Give them away?   Insights? Thank you, Norma

Response:

Ha! You think you’ve got a lot! LOL Every time I get a shipment in, I think, "Oh, I must have one of those, and I really like that, and I want to put one of those in my rotation!"  LOL My stash has grown by leaps and bounds since I opened the shop. DH suggested I start it several years ago when it wasn’t obvious how easily it is to become addicted! Now it’s too late – I love it and I don’t ever want to find a cure! ;-D Kim Fabrics2U – Now Carrying Mill Hill items! Want to be on my monthly sales list? <http://members.aol.com/fabrics2u/index.html

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John wrote: > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:29:25 -0500, Eschtaton > <Ka…@NOSPAM.student.umass.edu> wrote: > > People who know me think of me as very even tempered though, > >because I don’t express my feelings, and when I do feel negative its > >never anger, its always internalized, and I just hide in my room until I > >feel better. >     Thats funny because thats my public face and part of my facade – a > super even tempered image, people think Im really easy going but > dynamic because of my OCD traits which can make me seem the exact > opposite of what I am – super detail oriented, a fountain of facts and > knowledge (due to all my book and information collecting) and because > of my manic up side in which I get that "lets conquer the world" type > upbeat streak to my personality. > > As far as I can understand it too, ADD doesn’t "do things" > >to your self esteem, its society that does. >     Yeah its tragic – so many people falling through the tracks. Even > though Ive always been attracted to the limelight and gathered a lot > of people around me – always had groups of friends. I always felt > basically alienated. You know – i just had a thought and its adding to > my guilt. I tend to BS and gather people around me ( hot guitarist who > starts a group – had all sorts of people hanging around, Mr.computer > who talked about starting an ISP or internet business, Mr. > finance/accounting who pushed a neo-conservative POV and talked about > Wall Street – junk bonds, mergers and entrepreneurship ,  the tinkerer > – who talked people into getting into cars inwhich we took them apart > and talked about restyling , designing our own or spent hours looking > at  audiophile  equipment and making our own speakers, the ambitious > student who hooked up with several  top acheivers and talked about > getting into prestigious firms and conquering the world – like our own > secret club , ) etc. etc. Im good at getting people hyped up about a > subject and then hinting that we are headed towards something, some > goal………and then abandoning them beforethey find out nothing is > going to happen.

except for this line: "and then abandoning them before they find out nothing is going to happen." you are describing EXACTLY all that "leaders" do. Leaders are sales/ promo/ cheerleaders. they don’t "do" anything. (except that sales, promo, etc is actually doing something). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->         It was ALL BS – and I let them all down. I assumed a role of > leadership when I knew nothing was going to happen and then difted > away. It was all my fault. >         Well I got sidetracked again – I meant to say was for some > reason I feel a comraderie with other ADDers. A lot othem still dont > knowabout it and dont get any help. However, man its 1000% better than > the old days when they didnt even know it existed. I see parents now > who are doing all sorts of things to help their kids.

Response:

Why not call her and ask? It may seem like an unusual response, but most of the time, women who have given me their numbers have thought I was good company, and wanted to talk to me outside of the standard setting. Whether or not she has any romantic interest….only time will tell. You need to get to know her a little better. Maybe she’ll tell you; or maybe, once you feel ready, you can ask her out.    My response is from personal experience, so it may not be tailored for you, but I hope it works anyway. Andrew I_S_…@hotmail.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John wrote: > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:29:25 -0500, Eschtaton > <Ka…@NOSPAM.student.umass.edu> wrote: > > People who know me think of me as very even tempered though, > >because I don’t express my feelings, and when I do feel negative its > >never anger, its always internalized, and I just hide in my room until I > >feel better. >     Thats funny because thats my public face and part of my facade – a > super even tempered image, people think Im really easy going but > dynamic because of my OCD traits which can make me seem the exact > opposite of what I am – super detail oriented, a fountain of facts and > knowledge (due to all my book and information collecting) and because > of my manic up side in which I get that "lets conquer the world" type > upbeat streak to my personality.

        I am definately NOT OCD  I have a few traits like that, (and I certainly am a master of random facts), but very few things I can think of piss me off in the OCD sense.  The only ones I can think of are leaving a glass with some drink and ice in it to melt (I have to pour it out or else I keep thinking about it), or when I throw a magizine across the room I need to fix it if it lands open.  Beside that, I am a very easygoing in non social elements, I score close to zero on type-A tests, only with acedemics and other such things do I truly act agressive ever. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > As far as I can understand it too, ADD doesn’t "do things" > >to your self esteem, its society that does. >     Yeah its tragic – so many people falling through the tracks. Even > though Ive always been attracted to the limelight and gathered a lot > of people around me – always had groups of friends. I always felt > basically alienated. You know – i just had a thought and its adding to > my guilt. I tend to BS and gather people around me ( hot guitarist who > starts a group – had all sorts of people hanging around, Mr.computer > who talked about starting an ISP or internet business, Mr. > finance/accounting who pushed a neo-conservative POV and talked about > Wall Street – junk bonds, mergers and entrepreneurship ,  the tinkerer > – who talked people into getting into cars inwhich we took them apart > and talked about restyling , designing our own or spent hours looking > at  audiophile  equipment and making our own speakers, the ambitious > student who hooked up with several  top acheivers and talked about > getting into prestigious firms and conquering the world – like our own > secret club , ) etc. etc. Im good at getting people hyped up about a > subject and then hinting that we are headed towards something, some > goal………and then abandoning them beforethey find out nothing is > going to happen.

Never been a leader in any sense.  Im a worse follower though.  I did let people down alot when I was younger, because I tended to want everyone to like me, so I would bullshit and tell 2 different people different things, basically be a shameless gossip, and it would always get back to me.  Finally, one of my female friends told me she was a lesbian…I learned real fast to keep a secret then. (oops…wait, you guys have no idea who I am talking about, so its OK >         It was ALL BS – and I let them all down. I assumed a role of > leadership when I knew nothing was going to happen and then difted > away. It was all my fault. >         Well I got sidetracked again – I meant to say was for some > reason I feel a comraderie with other ADDers. A lot othem still dont > knowabout it and dont get any help. However, man its 1000% better than > the old days when they didnt even know it existed. I see parents now > who are doing all sorts of things to help their kids.

        Tell me about it, my father was ADD, they thought he was "slow" (cuz he was dyslexic too), they told his mom he should be a garbageman or gardener, he ended up a history major.

Response:

JerryO wrote: > The way you say it makes it sound like there was never anything ’sexual’ > between you two. I wouldnt know since shy people tend to be very asexual , > and this could be ar eflection of it as yo utype this up > …but..assuming my aseertion is correct,then i’d say that’s friendship > forming and not much else.

Thats what I am afraid of

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John wrote: > On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:51:04 -0500, Eschtaton > <Ka…@NOSPAM.student.umass.edu> wrote: > >       Also, she gave me the number thinking that would be goodbye until > >Febuary right?  Or should I call her this coming week (during finals) to > >show her I am interested?   Or, if I were to call her this soon, would > >it just make her think I was trying to ‘mack it?  Also she lives off > >campus, and its like a 35 minute bus ride (and busses often don’t come > >for hours…so its not like I can just say "hey you wanna do something, > >Ill be right over" and make it seem casual and undate-like.  Owell, > >responces would be much appreciated. >     Since I dont know her it makes it rather difficult to give you any > worthwhile advice but it sounds OK to me. It sounds like she likes you > to me. Im assuming you are good at reading people. The caveat here is > ADDers are sometimes terrible at reading people. I think Im actually > better than average and Ive heard it from some other ADDers that they > feel they can "see through" people – which Ive always felt I could. > But you mention something about how your intuition is terrible – so I > bring this up. It certainly seems like she likes you and the age thing > isnt that big of a deal anymore. If she is lonely and looking for > somone – I dont think she cares whether you are older or younger than > she is.In general giving you her number and talking about missing your > companionship next semester sounds like really good signs to me.

        My intuition is rather good in some senses, but I don’t trust it.  I mean that I generally find when I do trust my instincts I end up judging people correctly, but part of being ADD and surviving, as you might know, is to always second guess what your instinctive action is. Generally, if I am feeling isolated or shy, I will ignore positive signals, and think about the worst being true, where it I want to seem ‘on the bright side’ of things I often ignore bad cues/lack of cues.

Response:

> i agree. i can only add that it might be useful to very briefly ask when > her last final is done. Because then  you can call her when she is just > done and feeling relieved. >  (YOU KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE WHEN YOU’VE FINISHED YOUR LAST FINAL) >                :)

Its better than sex! (or so I have heard) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> your sharing of personal writings was verrrrry devious. >              :) > go go go!!!

Response:

> JerryO wrote: > > …but..assuming my aseertion is correct,then i’d say that’s friendship > > forming and not much else. > Thats what I am afraid of

Hey-that doesn’t have to be a bad thing, friends are good too.  I like the idea of calling her after exams to see how they went-maybe from that conversation you’ll get a better idea. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John wrote: > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 01:02:36 -0500, Eschtaton > <Ka…@NOSPAM.student.umass.edu> wrote: > >       My intuition is rather good in some senses, but I don’t trust it.  I > >mean that I generally find when I do trust my instincts I end up judging > >people correctly, but part of being ADD and surviving, as you might > >know, is to always second guess what your instinctive action is. > >Generally, if I am feeling isolated or shy, I will ignore positive > >signals, and think about the worst being true, where it I want to seem > >’on the bright side’ of things I often ignore bad cues/lack of cues. >      Yeah its super up or super down – a book says wide mood swings > are fairly common in ADDers. One female ADDer who wrote me thought she > was a bipolar. I thought I was a bipolar – but I just dont fit the > definition – its a little too extreme in some respects. So it was a > relief when I saw it included with other ADD traits. But ADD does do > things to your self-esteem which makes you second guess yourself and > doubt yourself all the time. But it’s funny – I sense a strange streak > of confidence in you too. Im like that too and so are several other > ADDers Ive corresponded with. They seem plagued with self-doubt in > some ways and yet had this extrovert-like highly confident, even > arrogant streak in them somewhere too – though they often describe > themselves as introverts.

        I have never thought of myself as bi-polar per-se, but I can get moody as all hell.  Some days when a person even looks at me wrong, it ruins my whole days.  Others, like today, someone in class outright attacked me intelectualy, and with very little hidden meaning he basically said in front of the whole class I was "wrong", and that I "should read the book a third time"…not only did it not phase me, I laughed in his face…it was so comical how he was just trying to get a rise out of me.  People who know me think of me as very even tempered though, because I don’t express my feelings, and when I do feel negative its never anger, its always internalized, and I just hide in my room until I feel better.  As far as I can understand it too, ADD doesn’t "do things" to your self esteem, its society that does.  ADD people I think have naturally high self esteem, but in childhood and adolecence, they often experience isolation and shunning by their peers…just for doing what comes natural to them.           As for confidence, I generally have confidence in some areas, but not others…in classes, I feel comfortable, and can say whatever I wish. Same thing, of course with people I know well.  In situations where I need to go somewhere unfarmilliar, like some office in the administration building, and tell someone a problem I am having, I have no problem.  You could say in fact that I am shy only with girls I am attracted to actually.  With guys, as well as girls I have no interest in, I really see no reason wasting the time getting to know them, when chances are around 2 out of 3 they will be idiots, so I dont get past aquaintence level with many people.  But with the girls that I am attracted to, in that case I want to approach a stranger, but have no skills to fo so

Response:

First the background.  As I have said before in posts, I am shy, but not so much in class, there I can be more outgoing, and tend to participate alot.  Anyway, there was this one girl I talked to alot in my writing class, when we had peer rewiew we usually did eachother’s papers, and such (sometimes she would read very private stuff I wrote, and vice-versa), though I wouldn’t talk to her every time we had class, I would talk to her alot of the time.  Anyway, the class ended on thursday, and I was walking out with her to the bus station.  We started talking, about how we were gonna miss not seeing eachother next semester with no classes together…then her bus pulled up, and spur of the moment I gave her a hug.  She then gave me her phone number.           My question is…what???  I mean I am not sure if this is another ‘just friends’ episode in the making or if its something more.  She has never flirted with me that I have noticed (but Im sure you coulda guessed that), and she is 23, while I am 19, so those facts lead me to think maybe she just really is gonna miss me as a friend, and just wanted to keep in touch and hang out next semester.  Also, the last two times I got a girls number turned out to be one good friendship, and one weird friendship (but lack of success shouldn’t be suprising here).  But then again, I have had a semi-thing for her this whole semester, and I dunno, I am getting that intuition…its always wrong, but I still can’t help it.         Also, she gave me the number thinking that would be goodbye until Febuary right?  Or should I call her this coming week (during finals) to show her I am interested?   Or, if I were to call her this soon, would it just make her think I was trying to ‘mack it?  Also she lives off campus, and its like a 35 minute bus ride (and busses often don’t come for hours…so its not like I can just say "hey you wanna do something, Ill be right over" and make it seem casual and undate-like.  Owell, responces would be much appreciated.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John wrote: > On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:51:04 -0500, Eschtaton > <Ka…@NOSPAM.student.umass.edu> wrote: > >       Also, she gave me the number thinking that would be goodbye until > >Febuary right?  Or should I call her this coming week (during finals) to > >show her I am interested?   Or, if I were to call her this soon, would > >it just make her think I was trying to ‘mack it?  Also she lives off > >campus, and its like a 35 minute bus ride (and busses often don’t come > >for hours…so its not like I can just say "hey you wanna do something, > >Ill be right over" and make it seem casual and undate-like.  Owell, > >responces would be much appreciated. >     Since I dont know her it makes it rather difficult to give you any > worthwhile advice but it sounds OK to me. It sounds like she likes you > to me. Im assuming you are good at reading people. The caveat here is > ADDers are sometimes terrible at reading people. I think Im actually > better than average and Ive heard it from some other ADDers that they > feel they can "see through" people – which Ive always felt I could. > But you mention something about how your intuition is terrible – so I > bring this up. It certainly seems like she likes you and the age thing > isnt that big of a deal anymore. If she is lonely and looking for > somone – I dont think she cares whether you are older or younger than > she is.In general giving you her number and talking about missing your > companionship next semester sounds like really good signs to me. >      Calling her up right away? Who knows? Some people may hate being > called during finals since they feel its a distraction. However, > others may like a break once in a while from the intense studying. It > really depends on the person. If she really likes you – I tend to > think a quick call is better actually – because shell assume that you > forgot or arent that serious if you wait a long time. >     Anyways – just think of it as a great learning experience even if > it doesnt workout. It takes guts to do what you did.

i agree. i can only add that it might be useful to very briefly ask when her last final is done. Because then  you can call her when she is just done and feeling relieved.  (YOU KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE WHEN YOU’VE FINISHED YOUR LAST FINAL)                :) your sharing of personal writings was verrrrry devious.              :) go go go!!!

Response:

The way you say it makes it sound like there was never anything ’sexual’ between you two. I wouldnt know since shy people tend to be very asexual , and this could be ar eflection of it as yo utype this up …but..assuming my aseertion is correct,then i’d say that’s friendship forming and not much else. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Eschtaton wrote: > First the background.  As I have said before in posts, I am shy, but > not so much in class, there I can be more outgoing, and tend to > participate alot.  Anyway, there was this one girl I talked to alot in > my writing class, when we had peer rewiew we usually did eachother’s > papers, and such (sometimes she would read very private stuff I wrote, > and vice-versa), though I wouldn’t talk to her every time we had class, > I would talk to her alot of the time.  Anyway, the class ended on > thursday, and I was walking out with her to the bus station.  We started > talking, about how we were gonna miss not seeing eachother next semester > with no classes together…then her bus pulled up, and spur of the > moment I gave her a hug.  She then gave me her phone number.   >    My question is…what???  I mean I am not sure if this is another ‘just > friends’ episode in the making or if its something more.  She has never > flirted with me that I have noticed (but Im sure you coulda guessed > that), and she is 23, while I am 19, so those facts lead me to think > maybe she just really is gonna miss me as a friend, and just wanted to > keep in touch and hang out next semester.  Also, the last two times I > got a girls number turned out to be one good friendship, and one weird > friendship (but lack of success shouldn’t be suprising here).  But then > again, I have had a semi-thing for her this whole semester, and I dunno, > I am getting that intuition…its always wrong, but I still can’t help > it. >    Also, she gave me the number thinking that would be goodbye until > Febuary right?  Or should I call her this coming week (during finals) to > show her I am interested?   Or, if I were to call her this soon, would > it just make her think I was trying to ‘mack it?  Also she lives off > campus, and its like a 35 minute bus ride (and busses often don’t come > for hours…so its not like I can just say "hey you wanna do something, > Ill be right over" and make it seem casual and undate-like.  Owell, > responces would be much appreciated.

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Response:

Question:

According to a certain, well-known British music paper,the oh-so hot Counting Crows (currently riding high with Mr. Jones) are called Accounting Crows in their native S.F., Cal., because of their lucrative deal with Geffen Records. How about that! Alex Nieminen                   "Mr. Jones and me, we’re going to be Journalist                       big stars" Paasikiventie 8 F 45 FIN-33230 TAMPERE                Copyright: Adam Duritz, EMI Blackwood Music. FINLAND

Response:

: I recently saw someone refer to ‘Ace of Base’ as ‘Waste of Tape’.  My : Here’s one: Taste of Mace,Pink ‘Rhoid, : Depeche Mode: Fresh Load : Urethra Franklin : Depeche Commode English translation – "Fast toilet" or "Hurry toilet". –Chris Chris Bradley         | "Chris is missing that circuit that the rest of us have

Response:

I recently saw someone refer to ‘Ace of Base’ as ‘Waste of Tape’.  My Here’s one: Taste of Mace,Pink ‘Rhoid, Depeche Mode: Fresh Load U2: Yoo-Hoo (Bono slurps down some Yoo-Hoo!) this is getting too stupid…sorry Urethra Franklin Depeche Commode Has anyone mentioned the ever popular Stone Pimple Toilets?

I like Douche Commode and Stone Temple Pearl Jam. (Hey, I actually like Depeche Mode, too.)

Response:

I recently saw someone refer to ‘Ace of Base’ as ‘Waste of Tape’.  My Here’s one: Taste of Mace,Pink ‘Rhoid, Depeche Mode: Fresh Load U2: Yoo-Hoo (Bono slurps down some Yoo-Hoo!) this is getting too stupid…sorry Urethra Franklin Depeche Commode

Has anyone mentioned the ever popular Stone Pimple Toilets? Thankfully, I did NOT make that one up… [grievous] — avalanche.master.song||shallow.hole||dead.sun.rising||loud.sounds.dopa glisten||stay.here||sado.feedback.loop||screaming.slave||armageddon x7 goden||les.privilege.des.mort||lick.forever.dog||blackhole.dub||pretty ||knuckles.the.dog||painted.life||who.gave.her.the.roses?||heresy.pt.5

Response:

I recently saw someone refer to ‘Ace of Base’ as ‘Waste of Tape’.  My Here’s one: Taste of Mace,Pink ‘Rhoid, Depeche Mode: Fresh Load U2: Yoo-Hoo (Bono slurps down some Yoo-Hoo!) this is getting too stupid…sorry

Urethra Franklin Depeche Commode — "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"                                                         -HEBREWS

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