Question:

Can anyone recommend an accountant (relatively inexpensive) who deals primarily with business? Feel free to email me their info. Thanks! PS: Canadian Accountant Required.

Response:

Can anyone recommend an accountant (relatively inexpensive) who deals primarily with business? Feel free to email me their info. Thanks! PS: Canadian Accountant Required.

Judged by the failing identification, the organisation and the headers, this is probably a spammer collecting addresses. Be warned. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Semtex Delta Force Panama NSA munitions Clinton strategic FSF smuggle

Response:

Can anyone recommend an accountant (relatively inexpensive) who deals primarily with business? Feel free to email me their info. Thanks! PS: Canadian Accountant Required.

Can you "spit back" the accountants who primarily _don’t_ deal with business?  This seems like a really odd request… [By the way, do you prefer CAs, CGAs, or CMAs?  How about CPAs?] — http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html "I’d crawl over an acre of ‘Visual This++’ and ‘Integrated Development That’ to  get to gcc, Emacs,  and gdb.  Thank you." — Vance Petree, Virginia Power

Response:

oh lord – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend an accountant (relatively inexpensive) who deals primarily with business? Feel free to email me their info. Thanks! PS: Canadian Accountant Required. Judged by the failing identification, the organisation and the headers, this is probably a spammer collecting addresses. Be warned. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Semtex Delta Force Panama NSA munitions Clinton strategic FSF smuggle

Response:

Question:

Are FASBs available on the web?  If yes, would appreciate an URL. TIA

Response:

Are FASBs available on the web?  If yes, would appreciate an URL.

Not unless you pay for them. Unlike every other federal agency, regulations affecting SEC registrants are not available in hard copy for nothing more than printing costs nor are they available for free download on the web. Unlike every other federal agency, regulations affecting SEC registrants are protected by copyright law. That means if someone did obtain and post electronic copies, that individual would be vulnerable to civil and criminal prosecution. Regards, Bill

Response:

Not quite. AIR, Federal Courts also site West’s.  The decisions are public but West’s citation system it applies to those decisions is proprietary. You have to pay to use it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are FASBs available on the web?  If yes, would appreciate an URL. Not unless you pay for them. Unlike every other federal agency, regulations affecting SEC registrants are not available in hard copy for nothing more than printing costs nor are they available for free download on the web. Unlike every other federal agency, regulations affecting SEC registrants are protected by copyright law. That means if someone did obtain and post electronic copies, that individual would be vulnerable to civil and criminal prosecution. Regards, Bill

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Not quite. AIR, Federal Courts also site West’s.  The decisions are public but West’s citation system it applies to those decisions is proprietary. You have to pay to use it.

If someone puts a federal court decision on his web page, West won’t be sustained in a copyright infringement suit. If someone puts FASB #115 on his web page, the Financial Accounting Standards Board would be. easy2000

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your going off the point.  The accountants have to buy the FASB pronouncements to comply with GAAP and do the SEC filing, the layers have to buy the West’s service to be able to use the correct citation forms to file in court. Not quite. AIR, Federal Courts also site West’s.  The decisions are public but West’s citation system it applies to those decisions is proprietary. You have to pay to use it.

Do the various courts pay to use West’s citation system? (Assuming your assertion has any accuracy to it at all.) easy2000

Response:

Your going off the point.  The accountants have to buy the FASB pronouncements to comply with GAAP and do the SEC filing, the layers have to buy the West’s service to be able to use the correct citation forms to file in court. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not quite. AIR, Federal Courts also site West’s.  The decisions are public but West’s citation system it applies to those decisions is proprietary. You have to pay to use it. If someone puts a federal court decision on his web page, West won’t be sustained in a copyright infringement suit. If someone puts FASB #115 on his web page, the Financial Accounting Standards Board would be. easy2000

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

If someone puts a federal court decision on his web page, West won’t be sustained in a copyright infringement suit. If someone puts FASB #115 on his web page, the Financial Accounting Standards Board would be.

Can anyone buy just FASB #115?  If yes, any idea of the cost?  And where? TIA

Response:

$13.75 for a single copy of any Standard.  See the FASB website at: http://accounting.rutgers.edu/raw/fasb/public/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If someone puts a federal court decision on his web page, West won’t be sustained in a copyright infringement suit. If someone puts FASB #115 on his web page, the Financial Accounting Standards Board would be. Can anyone buy just FASB #115?  If yes, any idea of the cost?  And where? TIA

Response:

http://stores.yahoo.com/fasbpubs/publications-statements-of-standards… 25-.html Price is $13.75     for #115 Get there via www.fasb.org

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If someone puts a federal court decision on his web page, West won’t be sustained in a copyright infringement suit. If someone puts FASB #115 on his web page, the Financial Accounting Standards Board would be. Can anyone buy just FASB #115?  If yes, any idea of the cost?  And where? TIA

Response:

$13.75 for a single copy of any Standard.  See the FASB website at:

Thus we have an example of monopoly pricing at its finest. Regards, Bill

Response:

http://stores.yahoo.com/fasbpubs/publications-statements-of-standards… 25-.html Price is $13.75     for #115

You and John B didn’t note that academics (like me) get a 20% discount. That means I only have to pay $11.00. Well silly me. What ever was I so wrought up about? I mean, after all, it’s only $11 freaking dollars. Regards, Bill (Gee, I hope readers can recognize sarcasm when it appears on their computer screens.)

Response:

Actually, considering the economics of printing and distribution, that is pretty cheap. $13.75 for a single copy of any Standard.  See the FASB website at: Thus we have an example of monopoly pricing at its finest. Regards, Bill

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Question:

Are there any small business accounting software products that will accommodate a payroll system where the employees are paid by the amount of work done, not just an hourly or salary system? We operate a delivery service where our employees are paid by the run.  We use an Access database both for employee scheduling and to record what work they’ve done.  I’m currently using an Excel spreadsheet as a general ledger.  It’s been working pretty well, but I’m just wondering if there is something better… I’ve tried Peachtree Accounting, Quickbooks, and MYOB, but none of these appear to permit paying on a piece work basis. -jg * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I think MOST payroll software can accommodate piecework rates – if you don’t mind calling a "piece" or "run" an "hour". Using QuickBooks as an example – you would filter certain payroll reports by Payroll Item to distinguish "piece-hours" from "time-hours". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any small business accounting software products that will accommodate a payroll system where the employees are paid by the amount of work done, not just an hourly or salary system? We operate a delivery service where our employees are paid by the run.  We use an Access database both for employee scheduling and to record what work they’ve done.  I’m currently using an Excel spreadsheet as a general ledger.  It’s been working pretty well, but I’m just wondering if there is something better… I’ve tried Peachtree Accounting, Quickbooks, and MYOB, but none of these appear to permit paying on a piece work basis. -jg * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s

Discussion Network * – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Suggest looking at Interac from Intersoft Systems,Inc.  Their payroll has 99 user definable other pays, beyond hourly, salary, etc..   An other pay can be defined as a piece.  Their payroll rate file would also give you opportunities to give different rates to different items. Their web page is www.intersoftsystems.com .

Response:

Here are 2 possible solutions. 1) Get a piece-rate front end, such as used in agriculture.  I don’t have their web URL, but I remember their phone #: 1-800-DATA-2-GO.   2) The simplest solution based on UA Corporate Accounting (which integrates well with Access and Excel) is create a commissionable inventory item called Delivery.  The commission would be, say $10. The salesman (driver) who sells 5 items (makes 5 deliveries) gets $50 commission (piece-rate earnings). It may sound clumsy, but it has to be better than using Excel for GL. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick www.cpaccess.com 800-997-7944 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any small business accounting software products that will accommodate a payroll system where the employees are paid by the amount of work done, not just an hourly or salary system? We operate a delivery service where our employees are paid by the run.  We use an Access database both for employee scheduling and to record what work they’ve done.  I’m currently using an Excel spreadsheet as a general ledger.  It’s been working pretty well, but I’m just wondering if there is something better… I’ve tried Peachtree Accounting, Quickbooks, and MYOB, but none of these appear to permit paying on a piece work basis. -jg * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Respectfully,   – Carl Dick www.cpaccess.com 800-997-7944 949-261-2694  California, USA

Response:

Question:

between moments of lucidity.  However, Randi’s refusal to sign Benneth’s application form before (and if) they go to bat could be construed as a dodge. I don’t know what a lawyer would say. Well, I do. The Challenge is a unilateral contract. It’s kind of an unusual insrument, if you can call it that. I call it b’llsh’t. Anyway, there’s no clear legal recourse until he signs it as far as I can see, and it really takes an expert on unilaterals to tell us what it is, and even then, what kind of an agreement is it really? And what’s it’s jurisdiction? All I have

Are you saying that you’ve sought legal counsel (or done your own research) and have been told or learned that there’s no legal guarantee that if you win the preliminary according to the mutually agreed upon protocol that Alain and Randi are working on — including the homeopathic pharmacist and trusty NIST biochemist, the cameras, the accounting firm, et al. — that Randi will be legally bound to negotiate a final trial with you?  This is the exact opposite of what Mona, a lawyer, is insisting to be the case. from Randi are about five or six dozen e-mails from the man either to me or about me, and all derogatory or threats to humiliate me. In one he types to me an angry sounding letter in ALL CAPS and  commands me to F*CK OFF. Now why does he have to act so hostile if he’s got a valid offer?      And here’s more questions:

I’ve been tempted to type those words to you myself, and I’ve only been on the receiving end of a fraction of the venom you’ve directed at Randi.       NAME ONE APPLICANT HE’S EVER TESTED.

Why should it really matter as far as *your* case is concerned?  I do have the name and ph. number of the homeopath (or his secretary; I can’t remember) he tested, BTW — I got it from Randi — and when I offered to share it with you a few months ago, you basically said "who cares?"       WHO AT GOLDMAN SACHS WILL VERIFY THE AWARD?

Have you actually phoned or faxed the GS numbers given on the application form you signed?       WHY CAN’T WE SEE THE RECORDS OF PREVIOUS TRIALS IF THERE ARE ANY?

That would be highly desirable, but why should it prevent you from pursuing your shot at the Challenge?       WHY WON’T RANDI SIGN HIS OWN CHALLENGE?

I’d also like to know; but it would seem his signature isn’t required on this "unilateral contract" for it to be enforceable.      If all the answers to these questions is so easy, then why is he hiding them?

I don’t know why he’s hiding "most* of them (where’s the secrecy about Goldman Sachs, for instance?), but again, if you’re legally protected and can agree on a protocol that gives you a fair chance to prove your ability, what’s the problem? Why let these details deter you from moving in for the kill?       SYd, I’ve been screaming about this for over half a year now. After a while it’s gets to be funny and I actually start feeling sorry for him.  So what’s left to do but clown around until he wakes up from the smell of his reputation in flames? Really, if he wants me to act sensibly, then he could start the ball rolling by simply typing a few names so we could check this out. ANd why is he Maybe if he thinks I’m a crazy fool it will give him the needed confidence and schedule a test of my claims. But of course, that would mean he’d have to sign the paper, wouldn’t it? And he won’t do tthat, will he? He’s never done it before, and he’ll never do it ever.       But maybe you can work on him to endorse my proposal to open testing       up to the schools using my oat test and the Jones/Jenkins Yeast test. http://www.marius.net/yeast.html

He is so gonna like that idea, don’t ya know! At this point I’ve given up any hope of getting my million bucks from his cheap carney act inthe way he’s suggested it can’t be done, so what do I have to lose by revealing my methods? Let a bunch of little school kids validate my claims. What could be better? Besides, I got other ways of doing this he hasn’t even dreamed of yet.      WHERE"S MY MILLION RANDI? I GOT YOUR PROOF BOTH LIVING AND MECHANICAL, RIGHT HERE.  . . . COME AND GET IT!

I can hear his little footsteps galloping your way this very minute. Syd            http://www.escape.ca/~sgb                      Dealing with Depression Naturally                               and other books by Syd Baumel.                                      …and cool record reviews!

Response:

What do you mean, erf? You have to sign away your right to sue when you apply, don’t you?

It’s hd, erf is jus’ a ‘lil noise.  This have been debated to death.  The clause in the challenge dealing with lawsuits wouldn’t prevent someone from suing to collect the prize if they won.  Plus substantial damages. ruf

Response:

Sue him.  You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie.  Try thinking before you type. Good advice Doggie, you should follow it!!! The point is that Randi makes you sign a contract so you CANNOT sue him. Understand now? The person has no recourse if Randi refuses to pay. He must not be too sure of his challenge if he has to resort to such tactics.

A lawyer, we already checked out her credentials, who works in this field, has opined that the clause in Randi’s contract wouldn’t prevent someone who won the challenge from suing for their money.  It isn’t the purpose of the clause.  And if you’d followed idiots like Riley G., you’d see why it’s necessary. arf

Response:

Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome.  It is common sense. And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up?

Sue him.  You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie.  Try thinking before you type. erf

Response:

So describe the experiments.   — John Walkup

Response:

Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome.  It is common sense. And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up? Sue him.  You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie.  Try thinking before you type. erf

What do you mean, erf? You have to sign away your right to sue when you apply, don’t you? kb

Response:

Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome.  It is common sense. And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up? Sue him.  You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie.  Try thinking before you type. erf

Good advice Doggie, you should follow it!!! The point is that Randi makes you sign a contract so you CANNOT sue him. Understand now? The person has no recourse if Randi refuses to pay. He must not be too sure of his challenge if he has to resort to such tactics.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very, very well put.  I wish the skeptical community would openly ponder the possibility that the Emperor has been wearing too many clothes. Your recommendations for tightening the screws on the ‘Randi Challenge’ thing are valuable. The Challenge is an important signal tower for those skeptics who prefer not to investigate the paranormal for themselves. Most believe that until someone wins the million, the evidence supporting PSI amounts to precicely zero and there is no need to read and take seriously published articles or books, no matter how well recieved these are by the more critical scientific establishment. Randi therefore has a lot of power, and as long as he is able to dodge promising applicants evidence obtained by serious researchers will not readily reach it’s audience. I have no direct evidence that Randi has ever tried to dodge promising applicants, other than putting Benneth on hold for no good reason for three months.

Make that seven months, Syd . . . he’s been doing the Zwinge waltz since last January . . . Ironically, now it’s Randi who has been nose-to- the-grindstone since ~July 31 in trying to negotiate a trial for Benneth (not *with* Benneth, and I can’t say that I blame him), but Benneth has been playing (or being) the clown, fool, crazed Prince of Denmark … between moments of lucidity.  However, Randi’s refusal to sign Benneth’s application form before (and if) they go to bat could be construed as a dodge. I don’t know what a lawyer would say.

Well, I do. The Challenge is a unilateral contract. It’s kind of an unusual insrument, if you can call it that. I call it b’llsh’t. Anyway, there’s no clear legal recourse until he signs it as far as I can see, and it really takes an expert on unilaterals to tell us what it is, and even then, what kind of an agreement is it really? And what’s it’s jurisdiction? All I have from Randi are about five or six dozen e-mails from the man either to me or about me, and all derogatory or threats to humiliate me. In one he types to me an angry sounding letter in ALL CAPS and  commands me to F*CK OFF. Now why does he have to act so hostile if he’s got a valid offer?      And here’s more questions:       NAME ONE APPLICANT HE’S EVER TESTED.       WHO AT GOLDMAN SACHS WILL VERIFY THE AWARD?       WHY CAN’T WE SEE THE RECORDS OF PREVIOUS TRIALS IF THERE ARE ANY?       WHY WON’T RANDI SIGN HIS OWN CHALLENGE?       If all the answers to these questions is so easy, then why is he hiding them?       SYd, I’ve been screaming about this for over half a year now. After a while it’s gets to be funny and I actually start feeling sorry for him.  So what’s left to do but clown around until he wakes up from the smell of his reputation in flames? Really, if he wants me to act sensibly, then he could start the ball rolling by simply typing a few names so we could check this out. ANd why is he Maybe if he thinks I’m a crazy fool it will give him the needed confidence and schedule a test of my claims. But of course, that would mean he’d have to sign the paper, wouldn’t it? And he won’t do tthat, will he? He’s never done it before, and he’ll never do it ever.        But maybe you can work on him to endorse my proposal to open testing up to the schools using my oat test and the Jones/Jenkins Yeast test. http://www.marius.net/yeast.html At this point I’ve given up any hope of getting my million bucks from his cheap carney act inthe way he’s suggested it can’t be done, so what do I have to lose by revealing my methods? Let a bunch of little school kids validate my claims. What could be better? Besides, I got other ways of doing this he hasn’t even dreamed of yet.       WHERE"S MY MILLION RANDI? I GOT YOUR PROOF BOTH LIVING AND MECHANICAL, RIGHT HERE.  . . . COME AND GET IT! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, even the most zealous skeptics agree that at least some small PSI effects have been demonstrated to exist. And still, the million dollars have not been won. This fact alone should be enough to convince skeptics that the Challenge is not as subtle a barometer of PSI activity as they might think. Either Randi revamps his program by exposing the mechanics and dynamics of his application policy and by publishing the details of tests and preliminaries, or he should throw in the towl and declare the program void. That would hopefully send skeptics back to doing what they should, namely informing themselves about the status of psi-research as it stand today, instead of wasting their time standing at attention in Randi’s ranks. Joris van Dorp Syd

Yeah, Joris has written the definitive statement and speaks my sentiments exactly. John Benneth at the World’s greatest website Click here and see why . . . http://www.marius.net/ (Nose to the grindstone, yeah right sure. Most of it is his complaining about all the e-mail he gets about this . . . and by the way, Art Bell told me he does this . . . and Art has invtied him to appear on the program, but you know magic is a vanishing art)

Response:

. Look, Randi, why don’t you take two of the tests we’ve furnished for you, and your people, whoever they are, can do them immediately as your preliminary tests. In fact, why doesn’t everyone who reads this do the test or do something to have it done in their area?.

 What type of test are you talking about? Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome.  It is common sense. Peter Moran

Response:

Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome.  It is common sense.

And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up?

Response:

. Look, Randi, why don’t you take two of the tests we’ve furnished for you, and your people, whoever they are, can do them immediately as your preliminary tests. In fact, why doesn’t everyone who reads this do the test or do something to have it done in their area?.  What type of test are you talking about?

We’ve come up with a protocol that narrows down the arugment to separating homeopathically potentized solutions form non.     The problem now is to get Randi to agree to a test. To provide further evidence, and because Randi’s refusing to accept the information as confirmation of our cliam, we’re releasing two different but easy methods by which to do what we’re claiming can be done.      One makes use of oat seeds and takes a few days to get results, but the other uses yeast and the results can be seen within 24 hours sing a microscope.       All these people who have mouths bigger than their brains can now see for themselves using objective measures whether it works or not. So now the argument about homeopathy can go from "he said" to "I saw."      Try it and see for yourself if you won’t agree that Randi owes me a million bucks. Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome.  It is common sense.

As one of the crackpots, I have to say that getting an outcome as you put it, seems to be impossible to do with Randi. I applied to take the test seven months ago, and now he’s saying he won’t communicate with me. When I’ve sent evidence to him he becomes furious, starts writing me long letters in all caps, and cussing me out. He won’t even sign and return his own challenge. If he’s afreaid of being sued, then why did he make the offer in the first place? If he’s so sure I can’t win, then why doesn’t schedule the trial and get it over with? And so far, we have not seen any reports of previous trials, nor have we been able to find anyone he’s ever tested or have we ever seen a signed copy of his CHallenge for anyone previously. To me, from first hand knowledge, the Psychic Challenge is not a valid offer, nor does it seem to have bever been one, and it makes me wonder how much valid phenomena he’s been suppressing. Most of his communication to us has been hostile.. Perhaps you can tell us where reports of former trials can be found. And how many of these "crackpots" do you know who have tried to sue him? Peter Moran

Thanks for responding to this, Peter. If I can furnish anymore information, let me know. John Benneth http://www.marius.net/proof.html

Response:

             DIRECTLY RELEVANT: Getting on with it  Organization:             Personal   References:             1 My chemist (PhD in analytical chemistry) can do the preparation any weekend in November.  The work will all be done at Mount Saint Mary’s College. Will Benneth be ready by then?                                 Randi

     Well how do you like that?       Will Benneth be ready then? Benneth was ready the day hefiled the application to the Psychic CHallenge, on January 26th, 1999 http://www.marius.net/application.html      After seven months of bickering Randal finally agrees to a test at Mt. St. Mary’s College on some weekend in November. But what college is he talking about? Here we have a puicture of some scientists sitting around a desk at the college you propose. Is this NIST? http://www.msmcollege.com/science_dep.htm Or is this it? http://www.msmary.edu/science/ Maybe  this is it? http://www.msmc.edu/webdex/science/science/home.htm       What are you trying to pull now, Mr. Zwinge?      Seriously, I think we ALL can do better than this. Look, Randi, why don’t you take two of the tests we’ve furnished for you, and your people, whoever they are, can do them immediately as your preliminary tests. In fact, why doesn’t everyone who reads this do the test or do something to have it done in their area?. Maybe everyone could go to the science editor of their local newspaper or the head of the science department at your local college, start there, ask who could pull this off, who would be interested?       Tell them why it’s important. Tell them its to validate or debunk what purposts to be the world’s greatest doctrine of energy medicine ever known. Money and lives are riding on it.      The yeast test is the quickest one to do, but the oat test is the easiest.      Do both yourself, or get one of your people to do it, Randi, and everyone else should be doing the same.     What’s the big deal here? If a dummy, as you call me,  can pull it off, why can’t you, a MacArthur Genius, do it?  You’re the genius here who never finished high school? Is the problem not enough time?      If it’s time, we would have had this done long ago. You would have had the confidence to shoot me down immediately.      Or at least try. But you haven’t done it because you already lost this war long ago. You’ve seen plenty of evidence to prove that what you’re talking about is real, and so all you can do is to hurl ad hominem.      Is it that it isn’t important? I don’t think so. I think it’s real important. Homeopathy is a growth industry. The consumer is demanding that his government use its superior resources to rectify its trade. And it WILL happen, within a few years, homeopathy will be regulated, as it is in France with the bug remedies like the clap (Medorrhinum), because they are not similia, they are idem, and Hahnemann enjoins us against the use of idem for present manifestations of disease. . . .      There’s a lot of people out there who believe that there really is something to homeopathy, and if they’re wrong, they’re being defrauded and this is a grand hoax that should be exposed. But if the opposite is true, then this may be further validation for what appears to a lot of people as being the greatest known medical doctrine to appear in modern times. It already has become, within only 200 years, the second most used doctrine of healing in the world today, second only to Chinese medicine. That’s a lot of people for a high school dropout to characterize as stupid.      So what I suggest we do is start promoting these two tests. I’ll start posting the recipes at my web site at http://www.marius.net      And I’ll hit the newsgroups with this.      This way anyone can have access to the tests and do them for themselves to see if this is a real phenomenon. Skeptics, believers, and agnostics alike can all have the same simple procedure. All the St. Mary’s Colleges all over the world can have the test by simply logging on to http://marius.net . And then if we need to, we’ll start collecting affidavits from people who have done testing and we’ll present these to Goldman Sachs as as the preliminary evidence.      Randi, you can do these experiments for yourself and see the results. I’ll give you  the method and tell you what ingredients you need  to do it with, I’ll consult with your top scientists, although you might want to call on your quantum physicist to render an opinion for you as well about this      And lets bring in some outside testimony for what this is, that is if you’re still not convinced. People like Richard Gerber, M.D., the author of VIBRATIONAL MEDICINE. And Andrew Weil, M.D. Let’s officially bring in a representative from NIST, let’s have invite the APS to run the tests.      Let’s also being in a well known jurist, somebody on the level of a Bork to oversee any formal test. ANd let’s use everyday people to create the double blind, people neither you nor I have anything to do with selecting.      And let’s go before the media with this. We can squeeze this for everything it’s worth. You can hype your book and I can hype mine.      Then instead of everyone having an opinion about what someone else has claimed to have done, they can do for it themselves. Or do you just want to go on arguing and trading barbs like we’ve been doing?  Either way, I’m going to enjoy it. I’ve got more than enough evidence to prove the hypothesis, plenty of published studies, and more than enough method, and I’ve got a whole library worth of ad hominem remarks I can make about Hamilton Zwinge, either way I’m bucked up solid and real confident I can’t lose. So what’s it going to be, Randal? Either way it’s fine, or you can get your little white hanky out and concede now, maybe we can work out a cash settlement. I don’t care, but how is it again I’m supposed to lose? In some dark little classroom at some little ignominious school in England?     If after doing the little experiments I’ve given you and everyone else you all come up with nothing , well,  then by a putative decision we’ll have our results. If they’re negative and people are complaining that this doesn’t work, then we can all consider that the hypothesis was wrong. But if the results are positive, if you’re getting deluged by school children from Mount St. Mary’s College in England who are seeing the same 150% growth over the controls that I recorded in the oat test, if people are replicating the work of Jones and Jenkins with yeast, then maybe that will be a cue that it’s time to schedule a formal trial of your hypothesis, that , how did Mr. Thuro, aka Happy Dog, put it? *The purpose of the challenge is to refute the argument that there is insufficient incentive for promoters of the paranormal, like homeopaths, to prove their assertions.* So as a promoter of what you would deem the paranormal, I have to say that after seven months you have yet to show me the bait. And this upsets me. I took your offer to be made in good faith and I think that when the American public sees what it is that you’ve been pulling, they’re going to feel disenchanted with you, not homeopathy. I think those of us who have applied to your little challenge feel there has been little incentive to take your test. You won’t even sign your own challenge. YOu won’t even give us the name of the person at Goldman Sachs whose supposed to confirm that you even have a prize. That’s not too much to ask for people who are risking reputation and expense to meet the demands of your challenge.      I think when the American public sees what it is you’re doing, they’re going to be upset with people like you and Bob Park, because they take you to be a modern Diogenes, dedicated to the truth, not deception.  Yet that is all your craft speaks for itself, are these perpetual deceptions that serve no one but yourself in the way they aggrandize you. And is it hurting people? Yes, your recalcitrance to look at the facts is indeed hurting people, it’s killing people, because it creating a situation where superior medical treatment is being withheld from them because its been denounced by the likes of you and your ever decreasing gang.       Now we could sit back and let you simply become a footnote in history, but I’m not content with that. I want to see you rectified, but I also want my money . . . and Mr. Zwinge, I’m going to get it. .     Well, do you think we can have grounds for a formal test, perhaps on that weekend in November? Sound fair enough? That should speed things up, don’t you think? If you like, we could schedule next February, or MArch. I don’t care I could move a few appointments around and make time for you and your friends.      I’m not in any special rush. Time money and public interest are all on my side. What have you got? We’ve already seen the rabbit.      So let’s start with your mystery scientist. Let me speak to him on the phone, and he and I can collaborate on how he can see these things for himself.      This weekend.      Is that getting on with it? John Benneth 503-661-4842

Response:

Question:

ATC: Roger "unable", proceed direct and report holding west of XYZ, expect further at 1800. You (thinking to yourself): Sh*t,… its only 1700.   I’ve never had anything like this.  If you have a valid reason for being unable to comply, ATC will try to work something out.

I think this thread has worked full circle. Snowbird said she has good luck and good negotiating skill, but still doesn’t always get the IFR routing she feels is both safe and desirable. Someone else posted that the PIC always has the option of saying "unable’. ATC then has to deal with that and many times their solution is to park you. The above happened to me: Expecting a handoff, Providence breaks to say that NY App is not taking any handoffs at this time, proceed yadda yadda yadda. I, along with four other planes, were given holds with projected durations of over 60 minutes. I was holding at some int west of Montauk, over land. One of the others got an intersection hold in the middle of Block Island Sound, not a comforting place in IMC. My point? In IFR, ATC will usually treat SE the same as a KingAir, and therefore being "in the system" might just increase your perceived safety risk. And asking for a decent to VFR to get out of the system is seldom granted from my experience.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ATC: Roger "unable", proceed direct and report holding west of XYZ, expect further at 1800. You (thinking to yourself): Sh*t,… its only 1700.   Sounds like a good time for "Roger, N12345 would like to cancel IFR at this time; squawking 1200, g’day".  <g That works, unless you have boxed yourself by undertaking a flight where specific routing and altitude are important (such as a SEL flight overwater) in less than VFR conditions. Which returns me full circle to my post which started this thread, in which I expressed the opinion that maybe IFR flight in such circumstances was not the brightest bulb in the lamp, and might *limit* options and safety in some circs. Snowbird Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Well, what you really said was that a pilot needs negotiating skills in order not to compromise safety. This is simply not the case. Once a pilot has accepted a clearance he (or she) feels is safe, the pilot need not accept any amendment to that clearance which he (or she) feels might jeopardize the safety of the flight, and in fact, I believe, without consulting the regs, is REQUIRED to refuse a clearance that he (or she) considers unsafe. I have more than once refused an altitude where icing could have been a problem, and routes over water outside of gliding distance to shore. Not once has ATC ever required me to "negotiate".  I might have been inconvenienced with a brief hold or a longer routing, but safety was never an issue. And stop saying "been there, done that".  It’s trite and arrogant.

Response:

ATC: Roger "unable", proceed direct and report holding west of XYZ, expect further at 1800. You (thinking to yourself): Sh*t,… its only 1700.   Sounds like a good time for "Roger, N12345 would like to cancel IFR at this time; squawking 1200, g’day".  <g

That works, unless you have boxed yourself by undertaking a flight where specific routing and altitude are important (such as a SEL flight overwater) in less than VFR conditions. Which returns me full circle to my post which started this thread, in which I expressed the opinion that maybe IFR flight in such circumstances was not the brightest bulb in the lamp, and might *limit* options and safety in some circs. Snowbird Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

You don’t need negotiating skills if you feel that an amended clearance would jeopardize the safety of your flight. All you need to be able to say is "unable". ATC: Roger "unable", proceed direct and report holding west of XYZ, expect further at 1800. You (thinking to yourself): Sh*t,… its only 1700.   I’ve never had anything like this.  If you have a valid reason for being unable to comply, ATC will try to work something out.

*sigh* I don’t seem able to convince some people, who perhaps have never experienced this themselves, but *this just doesn’t always work*.  Fact. Yes, ATC will try to work something out, if you ask nicely. I ask very nicely, I explain why, and I usually get what I ask for. That’s usually. If the airspace in question is very busy, and conditions are IMC, *all the good wishes in the world* won’t create the routing or altitude you want, no matter how much the controller might wish that it did.  No matter how many times you might say "unable". If you refuse a descent or a vector with a longer route over water, and they don’t have anyplace to put you on your current heading and altitude, what alternative do they have?  They can give you a hold. That’s it. Even if you tell the controller you’re in a SE plane and wish to stay within glide distance of land.  "Roger, can you accept VFR on top?"  "Negative, we’re IMC" "Sorry, I can’t accommodate 10,000 direct Palm Beach, descend and maintain 4,000 on present heading or turn right 40 degrees, expect on course in 20 minutes, your choice".  Been there, heard that, learned something. Same thing applies to routing around NYC.  The controller might want to give you an immediate descent out of the top 1000 ft of clouds or an immediate vector around weather, but if the airspace is crowded, *they just can’t*.  They have separation standards which they can’t violate unless there’s a true emergency. Believe me or don’t, I don’t care. Snow"not wanting to descend is not an emergency"bird Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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: Think someone covered JFK Jr’s instrument panel? Hey – I can appreciate your not wanted to get spam, but could makes editing responses a real pain.  :-) Cheers, Rick —

Response:

I don’t really know why Canadian pilots have this better-than-you attitude towards Americans. Get a life. Live with it. We are #1.

Maybe because of arrogant attitudes like yours?

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I don’t really know why Canadian pilots have this better-than-you attitude towards Americans. Get a life. Live with it. We are #1.

              the crown prince is dead:                    http://bounce.to/thetruth Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I don’t really know why Canadian pilots have this better-than-you attitude towards Americans. Get a life. Live with it. We are #1. Given everything that we now know about cold blooded assassins,

their tactics, their resources and their obsessions, on the balance of probability, the assassination of the crown prince was stage managed.                               the crown prince is dead:                    http://bounce.to/thetruth Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

You don’t need negotiating skills if you feel that an amended clearance would jeopardize the safety of your flight. All you need to be able to say is "unable". ATC: Roger "unable", proceed direct and report holding west of XYZ, expect further at 1800. You (thinking to yourself): Sh*t,… its only 1700.  

Sounds like a good time for "Roger, N12345 would like to cancel IFR at this time; squawking 1200, g’day".  <g – bill

Response:

You don’t need negotiating skills if you feel that an amended clearance would jeopardize the safety of your flight. All you need to be able to say is "unable". ATC: Roger "unable", proceed direct and report holding west of XYZ, expect further at 1800. You (thinking to yourself): Sh*t,… its only 1700.  

I’ve never had anything like this.  If you have a valid reason for being unable to comply, ATC will try to work something out.  In fact, you don’t necessarily have to be unable.  Just ask for something different, in a friendly voice, & (briefly) explain why.  Controllers get paid to provide service to you.  That’s their job.  There are controllers who don’t want to do their job, just like there are pilots who don’t want to do theirs, but both are in the minority.  A friendly attitude will get you a lot, & holding is a last resort with everyone. Controllers don’t want you going around in circles in their airspace, while they keep the airspace clear around you.   — Regards, Stan

Response:

I’ve never had anything like this.  If you have a valid reason for being unable to comply, ATC will try to work something out.

But it may not be within their ability to give you what you really want. Example: flying out of the Milwaukee area heading southeast you have three options:  go out over the middle of Lake Michigan (via the aptly named "BRAVE" intersection), take the long route around to the west of O’Hare (taking you as far west as Rockford), going over O’Hare at 12000+ feet.  Chicago center is simply not able to provide a clearance through ORD airspace.  None of these choices are particuarly palatable.  Blanket the whole area with MVFR ceilings and put weather over Rockford moving east and your choices are suddenly *very* limited.  Holding or landing may be the only reasonable choices. In fact, you don’t necessarily have to be unable.  Just ask for something different, in a friendly voice, & (briefly) explain why.

I’ve done that.  Sometimes it works.  And sometimes I get a response back in an equally friendly voice explaining why I simply cannot have what I am asking for. —                                 William LeFebvre                                 Group sys Consulting                                 +1 770 813 3224

Response:

You probably right as long as you are willing to restrict yourself to flying during the day or on clear nights when the moon is out.  Personally I have had several indicidents of flying at night into an area of reduced visibility.  I was glad to have an instrument rating and be able to get a clearance and continue. The big problem with most instrument rated pilots is that they do not practice enough.

Response:

Ditto here!   Mary and I have started doing an hour of "hood time" on every flight now… When I was getting my Private back in ‘94 my wise old instructor took me out over Lake Michigan at night, waited until the lights of the shoreline were well behind us, and then covered my instrument panel with his clipboard. Within 20 seconds, we were in an unusual attitude.   15 seconds more, and we’d have been dead. It was the best lesson I ever learned, and sure sounds like what happened to JFK. Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I’ve been putting off completing my IFR training due to time demands involving my job.  After hearing about John Kennedy, I have shifted my priorities.

Response:

In Canada single-engine ops beyond gliding distance from shore are not permitted.  Also, all flights, including VFR require a flight plan.  Also, we just got VFR-on-top OK’d, but I think it’s dumb.  In the U.S. and Canada, there’s been lots of times when I’ve flown into really dark skies at night VFR, and was glad I had lots of IFR training, even without the rating.  Also here in the Arctic it’s not uncommon to have no horizon but still be legal VFR. — VY0DU  April 1, 1999

Response:

In Canada single-engine ops beyond gliding distance from shore are not permitted.

wrong.  I legally fly C-registered single-engine aircraft out of gliding distance of shore all the time.  Great Lakes, Gulf of Mexico. Please give me a CAR # for this – I’ll give you a hint – there isn’t one, with the exception of the FTU 405/425 which I am almost certain you are incorrectly quoting as it is not applicable. —

Response:

I guess we all feel bad for the Kennedy and the Bessette

families…… I used to live in New England (in mass.) and, even though I was a pre- teen at the time, I don’t remember a whole hell of a lot of VFR weather in the 4 or 5 years we lived there. I wouldn’t have attempted the flight he made VFR, but I dunno. I guess we could try to armchair pilot that situation forever, but instead I’m thinking of it as something to learn from. It is an incentive for me to revisit the idea of pursuing an IR. I discussed it a little with my CFI today and got an idea of what would be involved. The only real difficult part of the decision would be financing it. Trust me, no other armtwisting is really needed – my occasion to talk to my CFI came today when I flew safety pilot for him for his IFR currency. Along the way, I got some complex time his turbo Arrow and got to shoot 3 landings in it. Wow – being able to fly a plane like that is a pretty strong incentive to get a complex cert. and eventually an IR! for me it’s very ironic because yesterday I had my first IFR lesson……. initially my husband had somewhat of a problem with me continuing my flight training with an instrument rating (he’s not a pilot and I’ve had to convince him that it would make me a better and safer pilot) but now he’s all for it….

As my CFI has told me from time to time, we are taking a calculated risk when we fly and there’s no guarantee that something won’t happen. Course, you don’t want to knowingly increase that risk (one reason I took my own plane out of service for a rebuild, or why I cancel flights if weather/wind is outside my limits, etc..), but there is always some element of danger we accept with doing this job and we just have to weigh that in. Important thing is, what I’ve gotten out of it has always made the risk worth it. I think that, when that stops being the case, I’ll hang up my wings. Yes, I hope we hear something soon… Lucien S. PP-ASEL. Captain America IV Now In Progress. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyhow, I hope we find out soon what happened with JFK and his two passengers….. Martina I’ve been thinking along these lines also, since resuming GA flying recently. IMC is a daily possibility in TX during the summer…. After the rebuild is done on the UL (and I’ve recovered financially a little bit 8)), I believe I’ll get started on the instrument myself. I’ll probably be flying safety for my CFI today (getting his IFR currency out of the way) and will bring up the subject before we fly. I’m greatly saddened by the JFK event, as I am anytime one of us is lost in an accident. Lucien S. PP-ASEL.     I’ve been putting off completing my IFR training due to time demands involving my job.  After hearing about John Kennedy, I have shifted my priorities.  Seems to be a classic spatial disorientation accident. I completed two IFR lessons today, and will be doing more tomorrow and next     By the way, I checked the moon data for last night.  The moon was only 16% full, and rose at 9:30 and set at 23:00.  Not much help there. Add heavy haze, a featureless ocean, and a low-time VFR pilot flying a Saratoga (and possibly some distraction in the cockpit) and you have the proper ingredients for disorientation, followed by pilot error (i.e., inability to keep the wings level, and a stall-spin). Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I’ve been putting off completing my IFR training due to time demands involving my job.  After hearing about John Kennedy, I have shifted my priorities. This is probably a minority viewpoint, but while I’m all for IFR training (and we frequently file and fly IFR), I do not care to fly overwater flights IFR, especially in busy areas. My reason is: when flying VFR, I pick my route and my altitude. I get to minimize the blue spaces and maximize the green spaces on the chart, and minimize the time I’ll spend outside glide distance from landable terra firma. When flying IFR in a busy corridor, ATC gets to set my route and my altitude, and if traffic is heavy all the negotiating skills I possess won’t suffice to keep me higher when ATC decides that it suits them to have me descend, nor will it get me a more direct overwater routing if the standard approach routing to my destination crosses the water less directly. Been there, had that happen despite what I consider pretty good ATC negotiating skills, never again if I can help it.

You don’t need negotiating skills if you feel that an amended clearance would jeopardize the safety of your flight. All you need to be able to say is "unable". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So if I wouldn’t be comfortable making an overwater flight VFR, with flight following (and in 3-5 mile visibility, at night with no moon, I personally wouldn’t be for more than one reason), I would stay on the ground. Just another viewpoint, and not intending to argue that it isn’t an excellent idea to pursue an instrument rating.  Good luck! Snowbird Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I don’t really know why Canadian pilots have this better-than-you attitude towards Americans. Get a life. Live with it. We are #1.

Response:

When I was getting my Private back in ‘94 my wise old instructor took me out over Lake Michigan at night, waited until the lights of the shoreline were well behind us, and then covered my instrument panel with his clipboard. Within 20 seconds, we were in an unusual attitude.

The same thing can happen out in the western US.  In far SW Texas, there are places with little or no lights for miles.  I have had many times where I couldn’t tell where the sky ended and the ground began.  It may be severe clear with stars all around, but with so few lights on the ground you can’t tell the sky from the ground.  If it’s hazy or overcast, you are in big-time trouble. Same goes for the mountains of Colorado, deserts of Arizona,  plains of Montana.  I think if you are a VFR-only pilot, you should only fly at night on severe clear days with good lighting around.  An IFR ticked is the best insurance of all. James Pratt

Response:

In Canada single-engine ops beyond gliding distance from shore are not permitted.

I find that statement hard to believe! How is this handled with single engine in the IFR environment? Also, all flights, including VFR require a flight plan.

This sounds like something the accountants cooked up to add revenue to the new ATC system. Mike.

Response:

You don’t need negotiating skills if you feel that an amended clearance would jeopardize the safety of your flight. All you need to be able to say is "unable".

ATC: Roger "unable", proceed direct and report holding west of XYZ, expect further at 1800. You (thinking to yourself): Sh*t,… its only 1700.  

Response:

    I’ve been putting off completing my IFR training due to time demands involving my job.  After hearing about John Kennedy, I have shifted my priorities.

This is probably a minority viewpoint, but while I’m all for IFR training (and we frequently file and fly IFR), I do not care to fly overwater flights IFR, especially in busy areas. My reason is: when flying VFR, I pick my route and my altitude. I get to minimize the blue spaces and maximize the green spaces on the chart, and minimize the time I’ll spend outside glide distance from landable terra firma. When flying IFR in a busy corridor, ATC gets to set my route and my altitude, and if traffic is heavy all the negotiating skills I possess won’t suffice to keep me higher when ATC decides that it suits them to have me descend, nor will it get me a more direct overwater routing if the standard approach routing to my destination crosses the water less directly. Been there, had that happen despite what I consider pretty good ATC negotiating skills, never again if I can help it. So if I wouldn’t be comfortable making an overwater flight VFR, with flight following (and in 3-5 mile visibility, at night with no moon, I personally wouldn’t be for more than one reason), I would stay on the ground. Just another viewpoint, and not intending to argue that it isn’t an excellent idea to pursue an instrument rating.  Good luck! Snowbird Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

    I’ve been putting off completing my IFR training due to time demands involving my job.  After hearing about John Kennedy, I have shifted my priorities.  Seems to be a classic spatial disorientation accident.   I completed two IFR lessons today, and will be doing more tomorrow and next     By the way, I checked the moon data for last night.  The moon was only 16% full, and rose at 9:30 and set at 23:00.  Not much help there.  Add heavy haze, a featureless ocean, and a low-time VFR pilot flying a Saratoga (and possibly some distraction in the cockpit) and you have the proper ingredients for disorientation, followed by pilot error (i.e., inability to keep the wings level, and a stall-spin).

Response:

I’ve been thinking along these lines also, since resuming GA flying recently. IMC is a daily possibility in TX during the summer…. After the rebuild is done on the UL (and I’ve recovered financially a little bit 8)), I believe I’ll get started on the instrument myself. I’ll probably be flying safety for my CFI today (getting his IFR currency out of the way) and will bring up the subject before we fly. I’m greatly saddened by the JFK event, as I am anytime one of us is lost in an accident. Lucien S. PP-ASEL. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I’ve been putting off completing my IFR training due to time demands involving my job.  After hearing about John Kennedy, I have shifted my priorities.  Seems to be a classic spatial disorientation accident. I completed two IFR lessons today, and will be doing more tomorrow and next     By the way, I checked the moon data for last night.  The moon was only 16% full, and rose at 9:30 and set at 23:00.  Not much help there. Add heavy haze, a featureless ocean, and a low-time VFR pilot flying a Saratoga (and possibly some distraction in the cockpit) and you have the proper ingredients for disorientation, followed by pilot error (i.e., inability to keep the wings level, and a stall-spin).

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I guess we all feel bad for the Kennedy and the Bessette families…… for me it’s very ironic because yesterday I had my first IFR lesson……. initially my husband had somewhat of a problem with me continuing my flight training with an instrument rating (he’s not a pilot and I’ve had to convince him that it would make me a better and safer pilot) but now he’s all for it…. Anyhow, I hope we find out soon what happened with JFK and his two passengers….. Martina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been thinking along these lines also, since resuming GA flying recently. IMC is a daily possibility in TX during the summer…. After the rebuild is done on the UL (and I’ve recovered financially a little bit 8)), I believe I’ll get started on the instrument myself. I’ll probably be flying safety for my CFI today (getting his IFR currency out of the way) and will bring up the subject before we fly. I’m greatly saddened by the JFK event, as I am anytime one of us is lost in an accident. Lucien S. PP-ASEL.     I’ve been putting off completing my IFR training due to time demands involving my job.  After hearing about John Kennedy, I have shifted my priorities.  Seems to be a classic spatial disorientation accident. I completed two IFR lessons today, and will be doing more tomorrow and next     By the way, I checked the moon data for last night.  The moon was only 16% full, and rose at 9:30 and set at 23:00.  Not much help there. Add heavy haze, a featureless ocean, and a low-time VFR pilot flying a Saratoga (and possibly some distraction in the cockpit) and you have the proper ingredients for disorientation, followed by pilot error (i.e., inability to keep the wings level, and a stall-spin). Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

Palo Alto  lets you leave your car there indefinitely with no charge.  They have an unsecured parking lot at the terminal.  I left an airport car there for over a year for when I flew in. The main benefit I experience when flying instead of driving to a destination is the physical ease.  After a 4 hour drive up the 101, I’m pretty wired.   When flying, the smoothness, direct flight path, shorter actual enroute traveling time, and lack of road hazards leaves me with more mental and physical energy at the end of the commute.   True, by the time you add up two short airport drives, load/unload, and actual flight, the true time savings comes down to only 1 hour in this case–sometimes more, sometimes less.   After a while though, you get a system down, and the logistics of loading/unloading, preflight, and shutdown become familiar and regular. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who replied.  One last question that some PAO locals could answer is how difficult is it to maintain a vehicle near PAO that I could drive to work in.  Is there a nearby garage? Would airport parking be prohibitive?  Is it possible to rent a space (auto space, that is) with the FBO? With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. If I come to my senses, maybe I might just live nearer work, eat the high cost, and build that KIS Cruiser I’ve had my eye on in the garage, instead of buying a factory airplane. stan

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So I was thinking of perhaps living in Gilroy, and basing off Reid Hillview, or Half Moon Bay, and flying in to Palo Alto. When I was there, the traffic from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale seemed bearable even at rush hour.  This way I get to live somewhere uncrowded and not have to deal with long rush hour commutes either. Does anyone have any ideas?  Do real estate prices become more reasonable near the coastside at Half Moon Bay, or near Gilroy? Are there any other airports worth considering?  Are the airports expensive to park at?

Why not base at South County airport in San MArtin? Closer to Gilroy, generally better weather and cheaper to boot. If your work is close to Moffett, PAO is just up the road…pete

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+ Capt Zombo made several good points and then he said: + Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a + week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane + every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping + $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the + aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, + insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the + additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t + make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional + commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years. + + Which got me going for a minute, but then I remembered that operating + costs are only gas and oil, which for a 172 is more like $17/hour. With + 300 hours this is $5,100 per year. Compare this to driving a car 100 + miles/day for 300 days, i.e., 30,000 miles. At 15 mpg that’s $2,000 plus + 10 oil changes, so the operating costs are only about twice as expensive + to drive an airplane. Absolutely not true. There’s things like the contribution to the overhaul of the engine. For a typical C172 that’s an O-320. Complete overhaul of such an engine is something like $12k. Even if one was able to get 2,000 hours on a motor – that’s $6/hour right there.  Buying a plane with only 500 TBO escalates that per hour cost considerably. There’s also the typical annual expenses that can reach a couple of thousand dollars. While some of the items are fixed costs that are unrelated to how many hours you put on the plane, many are items such as tires, brakes, etc. that are directly related to the number of hours you fly. I own my own plane and was a board officer in a flying club for years. Believe me – you can’t operate a C172 for $17/hour. + + On the other hand, you will "save" the time difference between driving + and flying, e.g., SJC-061 by car is 3 hrs and by airplane is 1-1/2 hours + so you can credit yourself this amount at your hourly rate, or what you + value family time, etc. …more somewhat faulty arithmetic.  SJC-061 may be three hours by car and 1.5 by plane, but you’re ignoring the preflight, departure and arrival holds, the drive to/from each airport and destination, and the transfer time moving things from vehicle to vehicle. I’ll bet you’d routinely lose that 1.5 hours. There’s another point worth mentioning. If the Silicon Valley business is not closely located near the local airport – there’s STILL a commute to deal with in the Silicon Valley. Landing at PAO and then driving to a business in San Jose is not a breeze of a drive.

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+ by putting my PPL to good use.  Yes, the airplane would be expensive, + but flying’s expense is high any way you look at it!  I hope the + 3 times a week flying to work doesn’t pale on me after a while, + but I think it would be a real blast for us people who love flying. …but you also might find that you’d love flying a lot less if it was something you did routinely as part of your commute.

Getting out there in the cold nasty weather and getting routed and vecttored all over gods creation on a nice Ifr Day or night if you plan to fly home to. But hey I’ve done it and I never regreted it once but I am glad I had a ME airplane to go IFR in.  It cost me $62 hr to operate my Travel Air including my maint/overhaul setaside and in the 8 years I’ve had it, it has doubled in it’s resale value.  Not to shabby.  You never save money flying single person in a plane and its hard to do it on a tight regular schedule, therefore it really doesn’t  save you clock time because of the buffer time you have to leave yourself for what ever comes up.  But the traffic you miss and the time building you do is great if your trying for an aviation career as you will fly in all weather (carfull in Known Ice even with a Kice plane).  So it all depends on your justification.  If you say its so you can buiild time for an airline job, GoFor It If your justifying it by cost or time efficiency, your kidding yourself.:(  If your justification is "Well hell I love this $#it, my family is eating,and I can afford this, I don’t care if I do have to get up an hour earlier in the morning and get home later at night, damnit I Wanna Fly! well then who an argue with that:) Get a good plane with modern instruments and good IRF stack in it (one of those electric backup vacuum supplys is a good idea), have a mechanic you trust go over it with a fine tooth comb and have it fixed as an aircraft is always at one stage of broken or another, and start having fun!

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+ by putting my PPL to good use.  Yes, the airplane would be expensive, + but flying’s expense is high any way you look at it!  I hope the + 3 times a week flying to work doesn’t pale on me after a while, + but I think it would be a real blast for us people who love flying. …but you also might find that you’d love flying a lot less if it was something you did routinely as part of your commute.

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Of the half dozen people that I personally know who have left decent paying jobs in Livermore/Pleasanton valley for higher paying jobs in the Silicon Valley, only one is truly happy with the move (BTW – he’s the one that doesn’t commute).

Living in Pleasanton and driving to Fremont is not too bad (0.5-0.75hr commute), but going all the way to San Jose/Mtn View etc. would be unacceptable for me. Fremont does have quite a few companies. There is a quality of life component you need to include when making a decision to work in Silicon Valley which includes how much time you are going to be spending on the road each day and how much that’s costing you. Nope. Silicon Valley is not for me. The commute is horrific. Housing costs are outrageous. The companies, in general, have a lot of staff turnover and there is really very little committment to the individual employees. More often than not, the small upstart companies fail within a couple of years.

This bothers me sometimes. A lot of people switch jobs to get quick raises and the lure of quick money with stock options. Little loyalty to the companies. The companies in turn also have little commitment – unfortunately a vicious circle. The press is full of success stories such as Netscape, but rarely mentions the failures  of companies like Kubota Pacific. I had an offer to work for Kubota. At the time, it was a huge increase in salary for me. Kubota was also bankrupt six months after that offer was made. I’m glad I didn’t take it.

The hardware/semiconductor business can be trying these days! I applaud you for trying to find an alternate commuting path, but I don’t think it’s realistic given the high costs of operating an aircraft, the consistently overcast and foggy Bay Area, and the distance you would need to go to really see a significant drop in the housing costs.

Some airline pilots live in places like Pine Mtn Lake and other Sierra foothill communities. For them it makes perfect sense, fly to San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose, no parking problems, hop into your commuter airline/jet whatever, "aircraft-pool" as necessary since everybodys destination is pretty much the same. You are IFR rated (and beyond), flying to work is like any other flight, increases your skills for your job. Probably works out cheaper if 3 or 4 pilots do this regularly. Moreover since you work only 3 to 4 times a week, you don’t rack up too much time ony your plane as opposed to a daily commute. Sriram PP-ASEL out of LVK

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Capt Zombo made several good points and then he said: Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years.

Which got me going for a minute, but then I remembered that operating costs are only gas and oil, which for a 172 is more like $17/hour. With 300 hours this is $5,100 per year. Compare this to driving a car 100 miles/day for 300 days, i.e., 30,000 miles. At 15 mpg that’s $2,000 plus 10 oil changes, so the operating costs are only about twice as expensive to drive an airplane. On the other hand, you will "save" the time difference between driving and flying, e.g., SJC-061 by car is 3 hrs and by airplane is 1-1/2 hours so you can credit yourself this amount at your hourly rate, or what you value family time, etc. As to the "fixed" costs: insurance costs are comparable, finance costs are more for an airplane loan, i.e., about 10% (that’s why you buy it for cash out of the money you would have put into a more expensive house). Parking and tiedown are comparable if you pay to park in a city. Maintenance is probably three to five times that for a car, comparing 172 annuals to 30,000/60,000 mile checkups for my Chevy. It may not be the cheapest way to go, but it is worth it to some folks. –Dan Arias — San Jose, California, USA

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Thanks to all who replied.  One last question that some PAO locals could answer is how difficult is it to maintain a vehicle near PAO that I could drive to work in.  Is there a nearby garage? Would airport parking be prohibitive?  Is it possible to rent a space (auto space, that is) with the FBO? With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. If I come to my senses, maybe I might just live nearer work, eat the high cost, and build that KIS Cruiser I’ve had my eye on in the garage, instead of buying a factory airplane. stan

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+ With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking + it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving + distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. + Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work + out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you + Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. …or you could simply choose not to work in Silicon Valley. Really. You do have a choice and working in the Valley is not all it’s cracked up to be. If you really detest traffic congestion, you’re not going to enjoy Silicon Valley commuting. It’s bad and all but guaranteed to get worse. Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years. When several of my colleagues left to work for Silicon Valley, there was no end to the bragging over the salary increases they were receiving to make the move. In less than two years, two of the three companies they jumped to have folded and the third has made significant staffing reductions. The bulk of their salary increases were eaten up by higher housing costs, or completely offset by the lost time spent in oppressive commutes. Of the half dozen people that I personally know who have left decent paying jobs in Livermore/Pleasanton valley for higher paying jobs in the Silicon Valley, only one is truly happy with the move (BTW – he’s the one that doesn’t commute). There is a quality of life component you need to include when making a decision to work in Silicon Valley which includes how much time you are going to be spending on the road each day and how much that’s costing you.   Another thing to consider is that while you can generally get higher job offers from Silicon Valley companies, there is a price. The people I know who left for 50% salary increases are also regularly working 70-hour work weeks. That’s a net decrease in per hour compensation. Nope. Silicon Valley is not for me. The commute is horrific. Housing costs are outrageous. The companies, in general, have a lot of staff turnover and there is really very little committment to the individual employees. More often than not, the small upstart companies fail within a couple of years. The press is full of success stories such as Netscape, but rarely mentions the failures  of companies like Kubota Pacific. I had an offer to work for Kubota. At the time, it was a huge increase in salary for me. Kubota was also bankrupt six months after that offer was made. I’m glad I didn’t take it. I applaud you for trying to find an alternate commuting path, but I don’t think it’s realistic given the high costs of operating an aircraft, the consistently overcast and foggy Bay Area, and the distance you would need to go to really see a significant drop in the housing costs. Good luck!

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+ it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving + distance away BTW – living 1-1.5 hours driving from Silicon Valley is not that far away…. a typical cummute from Pleasanton to Mountain View can routinely be over an hour.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – + With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking + it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving + distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. + Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work + out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you + Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. …or you could simply choose not to work in Silicon Valley. Really. You do have a choice and working in the Valley is not all it’s cracked up to be. If you really detest traffic congestion, you’re not going to enjoy Silicon Valley commuting. It’s bad and all but guaranteed to get worse.

This is an option also, I guess.  However, the reason for moving to Silicon Valley is that my company is being acquired by a Silicon Valley company.  There’s shares to be gained in accepting an employment agreement after the acquisition, as well as the salary increase, of course.   Whether the increase offsets the problems gained is itself a problem, as you correctly point out.  I am trying to find out if I can at least fix some of the problems – mainly lessening the commute problem by putting my PPL to good use.  Yes, the airplane would be expensive, but flying’s expense is high any way you look at it!  I hope the 3 times a week flying to work doesn’t pale on me after a while, but I think it would be a real blast for us people who love flying. Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years.

This is true, and was not well thought out on my end.  I’ll have to do some solid accounting for salary increase, subtract the housing and airplane and per hour costs, and try to figure if I’m better or worse off. Nope. Silicon Valley is not for me. The commute is horrific. Housing costs are outrageous. The companies, in general, have a lot of staff turnover and there is really very little committment to the individual employees. More often than not, the small upstart companies fail within a couple of years.

Luckily enough for me, the acquiring entity is a large, established company.  Although that doesn’t mean it’ll keep it’s doors open a long time, there’s a good chance it won’t go belly up any time soon. The press is full of success stories such as Netscape, but rarely mentions the failures  of companies like Kubota Pacific. I had an offer to work for Kubota. At the time, it was a huge increase in salary for me. Kubota was also bankrupt six months after that offer was made. I’m glad I didn’t take it. I applaud you for trying to find an alternate commuting path, but I don’t think it’s realistic given the high costs of operating an aircraft, the consistently overcast and foggy Bay Area, and the distance you would need to go to really see a significant drop in the housing costs.

Your estimation and the well reasoned replies I got from everyone on the group indicates that this is probably the case.  Sigh. I was really hoping that it would be possible to combine flying and work, and use the flying to make the commute less odious, and live somewhere nice and affordable also.  It isn’t looking that way. Good luck!

Thanks, Capt! stan

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I was just out there, and flew in to SJC, and was quite excited to see GA airplanes in SJC, alongside all the big jets.  I read later that the city wants to expand the airport and thus want to remove the GA population.  This is quite disheartening.

Same thing is occuring at a bunch of expanding airports (MHT for an example). Same thing has occured at a bunch of expanded airports, who now wish they could have GA back, since the scheduled airline traffic never materialized to a profitable extent (ORH for example). What I can’t really see is that GA ends up being a terrible inconvenience to airline users at the "moderately" busy airports. (And thus, unable to see the huge inconvenience that we apparently cause, can’t see the *airport*’s rush to kick us off. I can of course see that the FBO’s might prefer to sell fuel 500 gallons at a time, rather than the 50 I buy…) —Jim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip Other people have suggested eastward places, such as Cameron Airpark near Sacramento.  I wonder what people think of southward places like Monterey Bay?  That’s about 55 miles away, no complicated airspace to worry about, and a straight shot to PAO. Snip You’ll be faced with the same conditions at Monterey as the Bay area in regards to low level stratus —- only worse.  Monterey in the summer is much worse than the Bay area.  A couple of years ago we had 29 days in July that did not clear.  Montery ceiling is typically 200-600 OVK in mist.  Temp/dewpoint spread can be within a couple of degrees for a fair portion of the year.

With a IFR rating, getting into and out of MRY is pretty comfortable.  It really is gorgeous breaking out from the bright sun on top, out of the fog and seeing the MRY coastline and the approach lights. As I don’t particularly like ATC to vector me way out over the water for the ILS, I usually request to fly it "pilot-nav" which keeps me mostly over land, but takes about 5 minutes longer. Even Watsonville (WVI) has much better weather than Monterey on a consistent basis.  WVI only has an NDB approach and ceilings can be too low for that.

WVI also has a LOC approach and a VOR approach.  I believe the mins of the VOR approach off SNS is 1300, but I don’t recall the other mins.  I heard that someone crashed into LOC a while back, but I assume it has been fixed by now. BTW: MRY is Class C, SNS is Class D, and WVI isn’t. Hilton Stellar Semiconductor, Inc. 2355 Oakland Road, suite 1, San Jose, CA 95131 Tel: 408-955-9663 x154, Fax: 408-955-9671 http://www.stellarsemi.com

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Even Watsonville (WVI) has much better weather than Monterey on a consistent basis.  WVI only has an NDB approach and ceilings can be too low for that. WVI also has a LOC approach and a VOR approach.  I believe the mins of the VOR approach off SNS is 1300, but I don’t recall the other mins.  I heard that someone crashed into LOC a while back, but I assume it has been fixed by now.

The MDA of the LOC approach is 680 (about 500 AGL by the time you reach the airport). My CFII was in the right seat in the aircraft that plowed through the LOC antenna.  He had no official capacity on the flight, particularly since the right seat was broken and had to stay all the way back in the tracks.  He said it was quite a ride. The FAA was apparently going to replace it anyhow, but they moved the schedule up a bit.  It’s been functioning since late last fall… SNS is usually the last to go under of the three, but you get the added joy of the 20 mile downwind on the ILS…

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Snip Other people have suggested eastward places, such as Cameron Airpark near Sacramento.  I wonder what people think of southward places like Monterey Bay?  That’s about 55 miles away, no complicated airspace to worry about, and a straight shot to PAO.

Snip You’ll be faced with the same conditions at Monterey as the Bay area in regards to low level stratus —- only worse.  Monterey in the summer is much worse than the Bay area.  A couple of years ago we had 29 days in July that did not clear.  Montery ceiling is typically 200-600 OVK in mist.  Temp/dewpoint spread can be within a couple of degrees for a fair portion of the year.  Even Watsonville (WVI) has much better weather than Monterey on a consistent basis.  WVI only has an NDB approach and ceilings can be too low for that. Basically, if you want to live in paradise you have to pay for it somehow.  Either (A) Long commute (B) High housing cost (C) No jobs in the area (not a Bay area problem right now) (D) Earthquakes (E) Volcanos (F) Hurricanes (G) Unstable governments (H) all of the above Dan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc. I didn’t know that! Actually, it’s not that bad.  In fact, with SJC moving about 60% of the GA planes based there out to RHV, Q99, PAO, HWD, and LVK, it’s going to be much harder for the county to close down RHV.  

I was just out there, and flew in to SJC, and was quite excited to see GA airplanes in SJC, alongside all the big jets.  I read later that the city wants to expand the airport and thus want to remove the GA population.  This is quite disheartening. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried earlier to send my thoughts about commuting by air from outlying areas, but my mailer was not being too cooperative.  Here’s the summary, however: If you are going to live in Gilroy (or Morgan Hill, or San Martin), Q99 (South County Airport, San Martin) is a better place to commute from than RHV.  And I would much prefer San Martin or Morgan Hill to Gilroy as a place to live.  A friend of mine who lives in Gilroy complains about frequent shots fired in his neighborhood. Hollister is also a nice choice; further South, but a pretty good airport (only a GPS approach to it, though.) Better is going East, as so many auto commuters are doing.  Tracy, Byron, Stockton all have airports, and instrument approaches (Byron’s is GPS only, though).  There are very nice new housing developments there, and many who cannot afford a house here in the Bay Area can readily get into one there. Napa or even Petaluma are also possible, but they seem much further to PAO, and you would be going through SFO Class B airspace to get there.  If you go on an instrument flight plan every time, that’s probably not too much of a problem, except that you will be vectored all over the place, in all probability.  And going around it VFR would not be a lot better.  The best way to do that is below 3000′, out the gate, and stay 10 nm from SFO, but that puts you over water at 3000′ which may not seem like a good idea to you (it doesn’t to me).

This was a concern of mine, with the class B in the path between any northerly approaches to PAO.   Other people have suggested eastward places, such as Cameron Airpark near Sacramento.  I wonder what people think of southward places like Monterey Bay?  That’s about 55 miles away, no complicated airspace to worry about, and a straight shot to PAO. Intriguing ideas, though, and maybe moving out there is the way *I* can afford a plane and do the same thing! Kim Helliwell

stan

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+ I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the + possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the + San Francisco Bay Area.   Expect a lot of IFR-only mornings. A marine layer and fog routinely envelopes the Bay Area which would make morning VFR operations impractical. If you are going to fly in, you’ll need to fly futher than Gilroy to make the price differential worthwhile.  Larger, less expensive home are available in the Central Valley (which itself is enveloped in Tule fog for many weeks during the winter). You might consider going north rather than south (Petaluma, Napa Valley, Santa Rosa, etc.). or east (Stockton, Modesto, Tracy, even perhaps Livermore). Half Moon Bay is nice – but the coastal fog can limit your operations into and out of HAF year round and throughout the day. There is no localizer at HAF, so IFR is difficult (is it even possible?). Palo Alto is accessable. But tiedowns are few and if you’re flying in daily and using the transient tiedowns, they may start charging you a daily tiedown fee. Moffett is out – it’s not a public use airport. I don’t know what it would take to get a PPR to use the facility on a daily basis. If you’re really going to work for a Silicon Valley company, there are a number of companies that are a lot more enlightened about telecommuting. If you were only required to show up a couple of days a week – flying in can be more cost effective. Heck – I’d even consider flying in from Truckee or any of a number of Sierra foothill communities. Another choice would be to buy at someplace like Cameron Air Park or Sacramento Metro where properties are available where you can taxi to your home/hangar. Good luck..

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Does anyone have any ideas?  Do real estate prices become more reasonable near the coastside at Half Moon Bay, or near Gilroy? Are there any other airports worth considering?  Are the airports expensive to park at?

I think commuting by air only makes sense in the Bay area if you fly more than 50 miles, since at shorter distances you can usually get there more quickly by car.  The minimum reasonable door-to-door commute time which involves an airplane is at least an hour (recall that you have to get to and from the airport, pre-flight and depart, fly the en route part, and arrive and tiedown). We have tiedowns at San Jose and Cameron Park (about 35 miles east of Sacramento) and we fly to CP on the weekends. The CP area housing prices were actually depressed 3-4 years ago, but now housing prices are going up as the area is become a suburb of Sacramento (although they are still lower than in the Bay Area). I suspect it’s not hard to buy a house, an airplane, an extra car, and park them at CP, Placerville, Auburn, or Grass Valley for less than it would cost to buy many houses in the Bay area. Tiedown fees are probably on a par with parking in San Francisco. The problem is that you still have a 1-1/2 hour commute door-to-door, so unless you really like flying every day, it would make more sense to have a place to stay in the Bay Area and do the commute once or twice a week. There will be times when you can’t fly because of the weather and lack of instrument approaches, particularly in the winter, so having a job that allows flex-time or telecommuting is advisable. The ideal job is probably being an off-site consultant, or outside salesperson. There are logistical issues: now you have two or more vehicles, and perhaps some number of people, to coordinate and maintain. San Jose and Palo Alto on the penninsula, and Hayward and Oakland on the east bay, are the only airports in the area with instrument approaches for GA. There are other issues like the fact that San Jose seems to be pushing out GA, Palo Alto is overcrowded, Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc. The upshot is that it’s doable, but requires exceptional fortitude or an exceptional working/living situation. Good luck, –Dan Arias — San Jose, California, USA

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I think commuting by air only makes sense in the Bay area if you fly more than 50 miles, since at shorter distances you can usually get there more quickly by car.  The minimum reasonable door-to-door commute time which involves an airplane is at least an hour (recall that you have to get to and from the airport, pre-flight and depart, fly the en route part, and arrive and tiedown).

I hadn’t considered living that far afield, actually.  I was only considering airports within some small distance from Palo Alto. I was hoping that the total flying time would be 1/2 hour, allowing a short 15-20 minute drive from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale. Perhaps living in Monterey or Napa becomes something I should consider. There will be times when you can’t fly because of the weather and lack of instrument approaches, particularly in the winter, so having a job that allows flex-time or telecommuting is advisable. The ideal job is probably being an off-site consultant, or outside salesperson.

This is actually possible.  The company has flex time and lots of people telecommute one day or so a week.  It may make the driving more bearable.   Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc.

I didn’t know that! The upshot is that it’s doable, but requires exceptional fortitude or an exceptional working/living situation. Good luck, –Dan Arias — San Jose, California, USA

The advice from everyone here has been very helpful.  Thanks to all. stan

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Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc. I didn’t know that!

Actually, it’s not that bad.  In fact, with SJC moving about 60% of the GA planes based there out to RHV, Q99, PAO, HWD, and LVK, it’s going to be much harder for the county to close down RHV.  About a year or two ago, there was a celebrated vote about whether to close or not, and the swing vote switched sides  and the decision was to keep it open.  And now, there are plans afoot to make several improvements, including adding hangar and tie down space, lengthening runways, etc.  There is no firm plan, and no money has been allocated, but these things are in the talking stages, according to one of the airport managers I talked to. RHV is of special interest to AOPA, along with several other Bay Area airports, and any move now to close it down would raise a huge protest and backlash. I think (for the moment at least) that the people most interested in closing it have taken their best shot, lost, and are quieted down.  Not to be complacent about it, but I don’t think RHV is in any immediate danger. I tried earlier to send my thoughts about commuting by air from outlying areas, but my mailer was not being too cooperative.  Here’s the summary, however: If you are going to live in Gilroy (or Morgan Hill, or San Martin), Q99 (South County Airport, San Martin) is a better place to commute from than RHV.  And I would much prefer San Martin or Morgan Hill to Gilroy as a place to live.  A friend of mine who lives in Gilroy complains about frequent shots fired in his neighborhood. Hollister is also a nice choice; further South, but a pretty good airport (only a GPS approach to it, though.) Better is going East, as so many auto commuters are doing.  Tracy, Byron, Stockton all have airports, and instrument approaches (Byron’s is GPS only, though). There are very nice new housing developments there, and many who cannot afford a house here in the Bay Area can readily get into one there. Napa or even Petaluma are also possible, but they seem much further to PAO, and you would be going through SFO Class B airspace to get there.  If you go on an instrument flight plan every time, that’s probably not too much of a problem, except that you will be vectored all over the place, in all probability.  And going around it VFR would not be a lot better.  The best way to do that is below 3000′, out the gate, and stay 10 nm from SFO, but that puts you over water at 3000′ which may not seem like a good idea to you (it doesn’t to me). Intriguing ideas, though, and maybe moving out there is the way *I* can afford a plane and do the same thing! Kim Helliwell

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Byron is a good choice.  There’s a fellow sometimes in this ng who commutes from there in a mooney.  He mentioned before that it is good since it’s a driveable commute when the weather is terrible, about several times per year.   He flys into San Jose. I was paying 85/mo at pao for a tie down.  There were 4 people at my work who used to commute from Sacramento daily. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two thoughts about commuting in the Bay Area: 1) This will entail alot of IFR departures and approaches, at least through stratus all summer.  Although there are appraoches at PAO & HAF I don’t know if they are practical daily at commute times (flying out of  SQL is generally an OAK approach and scud running across the bay).  PAO could easily work the sameway from SJC/Moffett.  Hopefully some of the HAF/PAO "locals" will respond. Tie down $’s will be $100/month at each end.  Hangars not generally available and $300+. 2) Learn alot more about Bay Area real estate!  Price is certainly an issue but Gilroy vs Half Moon Bay is about different worlds – one is dry and hot ala Southern CA, the other coastal cold wet and foggy.  If you are going to fly you could expand your horizon to Napa, central valley (Rio Vista to Modesto), Salinas since the additional time en route would be trivial compared to preflight, tieing down… Do you have to show up physcially everyday?  People do drive from Stockton for instance. I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the San Francisco Bay Area.  

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Two thoughts about commuting in the Bay Area: 1) This will entail alot of IFR departures and approaches, at least through stratus all summer.  Although there are appraoches at PAO & HAF I don’t know if they are practical daily at commute times (flying out of  SQL is generally an OAK approach and scud running across the bay).  PAO could easily work the sameway from SJC/Moffett.  Hopefully some of the HAF/PAO "locals" will respond.  Tie down $’s will be $100/month at each end.  Hangars not generally available and $300+. 2) Learn alot more about Bay Area real estate!  Price is certainly an issue but Gilroy vs Half Moon Bay is about different worlds – one is dry and hot ala Southern CA, the other coastal cold wet and foggy.  If you are going to fly you could expand your horizon to Napa, central valley (Rio Vista to Modesto), Salinas since the additional time en route would be trivial compared to preflight, tieing down… Do you have to show up physcially everyday?  People do drive from Stockton for instance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the San Francisco Bay Area.  

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I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the San Francisco Bay Area.   It’s likely that I will be relocating to the Bay Area for a job in Sunnyvale.  Now with the astronomical real estate prices and road congestion, I was considering living somewhere further away, and commuting by flying in.  I’d really appreciate some advice from any of you who either do this, have thought about it, or just know the area well enough to have an opinion. There seem to be several airports within close flying distance but are located far enough away from the sprawl of Silicon Valley. The office is near Moffett Field, but that’s not GA-friendly. So I was thinking of perhaps living in Gilroy, and basing off Reid Hillview, or Half Moon Bay, and flying in to Palo Alto. When I was there, the traffic from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale seemed bearable even at rush hour.  This way I get to live somewhere uncrowded and not have to deal with long rush hour commutes either. Does anyone have any ideas?  Do real estate prices become more reasonable near the coastside at Half Moon Bay, or near Gilroy? Are there any other airports worth considering?  Are the airports expensive to park at? stan

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Question:

Does anyone know where I can obtain a copy of the GAAP for Not For Profit orgs? Thanks, Whit Bowman

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The Pratitioners Publishing Company has several Non-Profit Accounting books. The one you’re looking for is "Guide to Nonprofit GAAP".  It’s $63.00 in print or on CD rom, and you can call 1-800-323-8724 to order it.  Get their catalog for more publications to fit your needs. Does anyone know where I can obtain a copy of the GAAP for Not For Profit orgs? Thanks, Whit Bowman

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Question:

I am looking for individuals interested in Marketing-Controlling. Focussing on communications, I would like to discuss success-measurement, benchmarking and budget-planning issues. Moreover, I am looking for companies with practical experience in Marketing-Controlling.

And my guess is …. "Marketing-Controlling" means ensuring selective distribution channels or territorial integrity against the threats posed by ‘parallel trading’. or maybe not Regards Morris Tarragano

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Would you please elaborate on customer based accounting.  Does this mean that you track marketing costs individually for all of your clients?  I have heard this term used before, but am not sure that I understand its meaning. Thanks in advance. — Jason Hagerman Carroll Publishing Federal Charts and Directories 1058 Thomas Jefferson St, Washington DC, 20037 voice (202)333-8620 Fax: (202)337-7020 Jay Curry wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We use a concept "Customr Based Accounting" to measure ROI on marketing and sales spend. Beancounters love it. Jay Curry MSP Associats Amsterdam

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I am looking for individuals interested in Marketing-Controlling. Focussing on communications, I would like to discuss success-measurement, benchmarking and budget-planning issues. Moreover, I am looking for companies with practical experience in Marketing-Controlling. Regards, Jan-Eric Meyer-Hubbert

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I am looking for individuals interested in Marketing-Controlling.

What do you mean by this term? Doug Doug Hoy              Evaluation           National Museum of (613)998-6863v         Research       P.O.Box 9724, Station T (613)990-3654f                          Ottawa K1G 5A3 CANADA **Opinions expressed are not necessarily shared by the NMSTC**

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I am looking for individuals interested in Marketing-Controlling. Focussing on communications, I would like to discuss success-measurement, benchmarking and budget-planning issues. Moreover, I am looking for companies with practical experience in Marketing-Controlling.

Dear Jan-Eric, By the term "Marketing-Controlling" are you referring to intergrated planning tools for market modeling (sales forecasting) and business modeling (pro-forma cost relationships) such as BCG and MIT Enterprise spreadsheet appliations? Maybe we could be more helpful if you could provide more detail on you information requirements. Sherman Whipple, Sargent & Associates Strategic Services 10 Industrial Park Road, Hingham, MA 02043 http://www.whipplesargent.com

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I am looking for individuals interested in Marketing-Controlling.

I’ve noticed the newish job title Marketing Controller, I think, like President, Marketing it’s a Marketing Director. Do sex firms have Vice Presidents Marketing or make do with S&M Managers? John John Block                         Creative, marketing aware work which Freelance Copywriter               talks rather than blandly bores,                                    actively promotes your product, International                      and aims to be the best Welcomes Dollar and Sterling,      in your market sector.

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We use a concept "Customr Based Accounting" to measure ROI on marketing and sales spend. Beancounters love it.   Is this the kind of thing you are looking for? Jay Curry MSP Associats Amsterdam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for individuals interested in Marketing-Controlling. What do you mean by this term? Doug

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Question:

Hi, I am trying to complete an assignment and need some help.  Here is the info. Lessor wants to lease machine with 14 year life as a capital lease.  No info given about BPO or length of lease. Lessee believes machine will only last for 10 years and wants to lease it for a term of 7 years NOT as a capital lease.

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Hi, I am trying to complete an assignment and need some help.  Here is the info. Lessor wants to lease machine with 14 year life as a capital lease.  No info given about BPO or length of lease. Lessee believes machine will only last for 10 years and wants to lease it for a term of 7 years NOT as a capital lease.

Sure…ANY QUESTIONS???? Suncoast Accounting Services, Inc.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is a press release from Post-Newsweek Cable. Chairman, CEO, President Named at Post-Newsweek Cable To: Business Desk Contact: Guyon Knight of The Washington Post Co., 202-334-6642   WASHINGTON, Dec. 21  – The Washington Post Company announced today that Howard E. Wall will become chairman and chief executive officer of Post-Newsweek Cable Inc., a subsidiary, and Thomas O. Might will become president of Post-Newsweek Cable, effective Jan. 1, 1993. [...]   Wall, 62, joined The Washington Post Company in 1982 as vice president and chief accounting officer.  From 1978 to 1982 he was executive vice president and chief financial officer of Field Enterprises Inc.  He was vice president and treasurer of The Dun & Bradstreet Corp.  from 1971 to 1978.  From 1956 to 1971 Wall held various financial management positions with General Dynamics Corp. Wall is a graduate of the University of Utah.  He and his wife, Deloris, have two grown children.   Might, 41, joined The Washington Post Company in 1978 as assistant to the publisher of The Washington Post newspaper.  He was manager of The Post’s Springfield, Va., plant from 1980 to 1981.  In 1982 he became vice president-production of The Post and in 1987 vice president-production and marketing.  Might was named vice president-director of advertising in 1991 and vice president-advertising and marketing in 1992.  Might served in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from 1972 to 1976, attaining the rank of captain.  He received a B.S.  degree in industrial engineering from Georgia Tech and an M.B.A.  from Harvard Business School.  Might and his wife, Diane, have three sons.

        Aha!  Obviously, two more socialist members of the LIberalMediaConspiracy.  Worse yet, one of them previously infiltrated General Dynamics!  No wonder their business went to hell.  :-) Chuck —    The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of      North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information         Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.            internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

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Here is a press release from Post-Newsweek Cable.  Chairman, CEO, President Named at Post-Newsweek Cable  To: Business Desk  Contact: Guyon Knight of The Washington Post Co., 202-334-6642    WASHINGTON, Dec. 21  – The Washington Post Company announced today that Howard E. Wall will become chairman and chief executive officer of Post-Newsweek Cable Inc., a subsidiary, and Thomas O. Might will become president of Post-Newsweek Cable, effective Jan. 1, 1993.    Wall, who has been president of Post-Newsweek Cable since January 1986, will continue to oversee the company’s U.S. cable business, but will relocate to the United Kingdom to manage the company’s growing cable operations there.    Might, who is currently vice president-advertising/marketing of The Washington Post newspaper, will assume responsibility for Post-Newsweek’s domestic cable systems.    In making the announcement, Alan G. Spoon, chief operating officer of The Washington Post Company, said:  "These promotions put two of our most talented executives at the helm of a business that will be increasingly important to the company’s future.  Under Howard’s leadership, we plan accelerated growth of cable operations in the United Kingdom.  Tom Might has the skills to ensure that our domestic cable operations will continue to grow in a lively environment, with new technologies on one side and reregulation on the other."    Post-Newsweek Cable’s U.S. systems, with headquarters in Phoenix, serve over 460,000 subscribers in 15 midwestern, western and southern states.  In the United Kingdom, Post-Newsweek currently has licenses to pass 300,000 homes in Scotland and is in the process of building out the systems.  The company now has 25,000 U.K. subscribers.    Wall, 62, joined The Washington Post Company in 1982 as vice president and chief accounting officer.  From 1978 to 1982 he was executive vice president and chief financial officer of Field Enterprises Inc.  He was vice president and treasurer of The Dun & Bradstreet Corp.  from 1971 to 1978.  From 1956 to 1971 Wall held various financial management positions with General Dynamics Corp. Wall is a graduate of the University of Utah.  He and his wife, Deloris, have two grown children.    Might, 41, joined The Washington Post Company in 1978 as assistant to the publisher of The Washington Post newspaper.  He was manager of The Post’s Springfield, Va., plant from 1980 to 1981.  In 1982 he became vice president-production of The Post and in 1987 vice president-production and marketing.  Might was named vice president-director of advertising in 1991 and vice president-advertising and marketing in 1992.  Might served in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from 1972 to 1976, attaining the rank of captain.  He received a B.S.  degree in industrial engineering from Georgia Tech and an M.B.A.  from Harvard Business School.  Might and his wife, Diane, have three sons.  -30- —

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