Question:

This is what happens when you put a woman in charge of anything. She single-handedly ruined HP. Women need to stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. The corporate world is no place for these evil whores. http://forum.dearingfilm.com//index.php?showtopic=7047 Hewlett-Packard Ousts CEO Carly Fiorina SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – Hewlett-Packard Co. (NYSE:HPQ) on Wednesday ousted its chairman and chief executive, Carly Fiorina, the architect of a controversial merger with Compaq Computer that never produced the results she promised. Chief Financial Officer Robert Wayman, who was named interim chief executive, said HP did not plan to reverse the merger but left the door open to such a move, saying the board would not be close-minded on strategy changes as it searched for a new CEO. HP has turned in erratic financial results under Fiorina, and the board said its chief concern was to improve "execution" of strategy. But many on Wall Street hope the company will spin off its printing division, which delivers most of HP’s profit. HP shares, which have lost 63 percent of their value since Fiorina became CEO in July 1999, rose as much as 10 percent and were up 6 percent in afternoon trading. Fiorina, 50, resigned after a showdown on Tuesday afternoon, ending a tumultuous five-and-a-half-year reign characterized by an employee and shareholder revolt over the company’s direction. Recognized as one of the most powerful women in business, she had been the only female CEO of a component of the Dow Jones industrial average.

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I remember when she made that remark, when questioned about H-P’s outsourcing of jobs to India, about how American workers aren’t automatically entitled to any jobs at all. True enough, I suppose-but now she has an inkling of how the discarded workers feel. Too bad she (and not they) got a decent severance package.

Response:

Carly was a poster girl for affirmative action. All marketing and no substance. Her corporate success stemmed from good timing – and the big-shot husband she met at AT&T. Carly Fiorina’s Seven Deadly Sins By RICH KARLGAARD February 11, 2005 1. ACTING LIKE A ROCK STAR. In the U.S., only entrepreneurs get to act as rock stars. Hired guns do not. Carly Fiorina failed to grasp this distinction. Here, we celebrate Gates, Buffett, Dell, Ellison, Jobs, Schultz, Fred Smith. . . even Leonardo di Caprio as Howard Hughes — borderline crazies overcoming great odds. We love our entrepreneur rock stars so much we let their sins slide. Carly was excoriated for a boneheaded move — giving Compaq shareholders 37% of HP’s profitable printer division in a swap for Compaq’s flagging PC business. Founder-CEOs are allowed to get away with far worse. Ellison nearly took Oracle down in 1990 by overlooking shoddy accounting. (Oracle is an exemplar of accounting today.) Jobs’s first bold act after reassuming Apple’s reins in 1996 was to buy NeXT Software at an inflated $400 million and kill the company. Because he owned NeXT, Apple’s purchase made him rich. Yet Apple shareholders forgave Jobs because, well, he’s a rock star. And he has made good on that faith. 2. FAILING TO SEE THE CHEAP REVOLUTION. Carly allowed HP to drift onto the wrong side of the defining divide in the global economy. The cheap revolution has two elements: plummeting hardware costs combined with the Web-mediated ability to run world-class operations from anywhere. Dell is on the right side of the cheap revolution divide. It sells powerful servers for under $5,000 and keeps overhead low in Round Rock, Texas, where the average three-bedroom house sells for $200,000. HP sells servers for tens of thousands and keeps high overhead in Palo Alto, Calif., where the average three-bedroom sells for $1,500,000. 3. FAILING TO SEE THE CONSUMER REVOLUTION. A huge shift has occurred in the last five years. The coolest tech products now go straight into the consumer market. Until a few years ago, most got a footing in the business market first: Copiers, PCs and cellphones were expensive products that only became cheap riding the Moore’s Law curve over time. Today, the most transformative products and services go straight for the consumer: Blackberry, Apple iPod, eBay, Orbitz, Google, WiFi and so on. Carly has ineffectively maneuvered HP into this consumer field. 4. OBSESSION WITH SIZE OVER FLEXIBILITY. Carly is blamed for ignoring a tech truism that large mergers never work. Maybe we need to go deeper and challenge the very premise of these mergers: that large scale is a requirement of success in the global economy. By merging with Compaq, Carly clearly believed this. But maybe the opposite is true — that speed and flexibility now trump scale. The cheap revolution has armed startups and small companies with powerful, cheap technology and access to global labor pools. You don’t need a large organizational unit to manage your outsourcing initiative. Just go to www.elance.com. 5. LETTING TALENT GO. The recent passing of Walter Wriston reminds me of a memorable refrain in his book, "The Twilight of Sovereignty." In an era of freely flowing information, "capital will always go where it is welcome and stay where it is well-treated." By capital, he meant money and human capital. Carly mustn’t have read his book. Aside from chasing away shareholder capital, she chased away talent, from Michael Capellas on down. For high-IQ tech companies, talent loss may be the greater sin. The most dynamic — Microsoft and Oracle during the ’80s and ’90s, and Google now — have always been obsessed with recruiting and keeping talent. This week Google said it would rather slow its growth than lower the talent bar. To be fair, Carly didn’t start the talent drain at HP — it began under John Young and continued under Lewis Platt; but she didn’t stop it, either. 6. NOT TOLERATING STRENGTH IN OTHERS. A few months ago, I visited Peter Drucker on his 95th birthday. We talked about his great life’s work — the study of what makes an effective executive. He said the good ones tolerate strength in others; the bad ones don’t. Gates has Steve Ballmer. Michael Dell has Kevin Rollins. Larry Ellison has Jeff Henley. Carly had no one like that. 7. LACK OF FOCUS. We conclude with Drucker’s other great insight: Effective CEOs pick two tasks and devote their energies there. When those tasks are done, they don’t go to #3. They make a new list. One overlooked trick to maintaining focus, Drucker told me, is to cut travel. "Make your reports come to see you. Use technology, it’s cheaper than traveling. I don’t know anybody who can work while traveling. Do you?" Carly, globe-hopping in her Gulfstream, worked 100-hour weeks. But she was focused on too many tasks. Which is no focus at all. —- Mr. Karlgaard is publisher of Forbes magazine and author of "Life 2.0" (Crown Business, 2004).

Response:

Hardpan <hard…@yahoo.com> in news:sk0p011ebgrn1osskbdct37s913p1v9641@4ax.com: >>Hewlett-Packard Ousts CEO Carly Fiorina

only in ‘america’ do a few special ppl receive $21.4 million for being fired…

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Question:

May I suggest that you restrict your responses to just one newsgroup, and if you want to reply to the other groups too you can add them in the copies line ("Cc:") in the address.  Even better, write your response to just one group and send to the other group in seperate posts — you can just cut and paste for the other posts. Tina "%" <surfs@uniserve> wrote in message

news:103v4gq1hk7ld14@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> LET’S DO THE CROSS POST AGAIN

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OK. Responding to a lot of comments here. First:  HAVE ANY OF YOU READ THE BOOK, even??? IQ tests test math and verbal aptitude as well as general, left brain stuff. It does not test right brained intelligence. I call left brained thinking logical.  You know — this, that, thus, therefore.  And right brained thinking (sometimes called intuitive), I call reasoning, because you conclude something for good reasons, but they are not necessarily linear. By the way, I mention my IQ results, but I don’t think intelligence is the best measure of success potential. Emotional Intelligence does require skills, but I think mostly it requires willingness and work.  Most of that work involves paying attention to yourself honestly — being self aware, controlling impulses, including rage and including the impulse to reject new information that changes your view of yourself and the world.  It involves not berating people who believe differently from you.  It involves social deftness, motivation, and empathy. It also involves having sympathy and still doing what’s needed. There is no such thing as "EQ".  We are talking about intelligence.  I’d define it as knowing how to process inform, though the military would define Intelligence as just information.  It is not a quotient that you measure and be done with, and can’t change that much, though you can choose how to use it best.  It’s not like determining how much sun your skin can absorb without dire risk of skin cancer.  I’m of Scandinavian stock and my quotient is used up.  Darker skinned people could safely absorb more in a lifetime. IQ can be measured too and doesn’t change much, though Emotional Intellegence, or skill or maturity, will greatly change how effectively you can use your IQ to live well both internally and externally. Most people can develope Emotional Intelligence, though some have to work harder to do it than others do, because they just have less aptitude for it. Haven’t we all met that type?  The ones who not only have very little health y emotional developement, but don’t even seem able to see it.  That, from what I’ve seen, has more to do with how your persanality is hard wired, or from psychological trauma.. Regarding some of Mxs’s comments………….Attributing Emotional Intelligence to general intelligence and experience doesn’t work.  You can have a lot of very useless or even erroneous experience.  Think of all the Blacks in the South who all the Whites knew, from experience, were all stupid and sub-human. ……….Reading someone’s expression is not it, either.  People often "put on a face" very successfully.  It’s taking the next step, adding what you can learn or figure out about the situation, and being very sharp about inconsistancies between the the hidden signs and the normally visible things.  And it takes a lot of self knowledge, and some humility to do that too……….  And I find it amusing that you are telling me that people without general intelligence or who don’t believe it can be measure and that it matters are the ones who believe in Emotional Intelligence.  LOL! Tina "Mxsmanic" <mxsma…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:2aer309auejktq6grrojgrrhbcq88pb1jf@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Christina Peterson writes: > > Even disabled with severe Depression the tests put me > > over 135, and tell me my math is outstanding … > IQ tests do not test math skills. > > Emotional intelligence is a skill involving making sense of > > emotional experiences, and does not rely on IQ. > It relies mostly on hype, actually. > — > Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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OB writes: > I think you’ll find that some > people who are highly intelligent when it comes to e.g. solving > mathematical problems will be found to be retards when it comes to > interpreting the facial expressions, gestures and verbal intonation of > others.

Perceiving these things is correlated with intelligence–but interpreting them is simply a matter of acquired knowledge through experience.  So an inexperienced but intelligent person will see them all but may misinterpret them.  A stupid but experienced person may not see them as easily but will consistently give them the correct interpretation. So the interpretation is not "emotional intelligence," but simply experience.  And since intelligent people are often marginalized by their high intelligence (if they are far enough above average), they tend to be socially inexperienced.  But it’s not a form of intelligence at all. The error is in thinking that "emotional intelligence" is built in in the way that general intelligence is.  In fact, it’s just a form of experience and acquired knowledge, and it is neither built in nor does it have anything to do with intelligence. > As I already pointed out, even current IQ testing > is based on some quite arbitrary premises (e.g. that the mean scores > of both sexes should be equal, regardless of how this parity is > achieved).

As it happens, the mean scores are essentially equal for the two sexes. The same is not true for different ethnic groups, though. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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Michaela writes: > I would have thought you would understand the value > of emotional intelligence.

Things that do not exist are not generally of any great value. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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Mxsmanic <mxsma…@hotmail.com> spewed forth most vilely news:hl3v30h4mmojchho7dm0hsb5prkfeq7bi7@4ax.com: > Michaela writes: >> I would have thought you would understand the value >> of emotional intelligence. > Things that do not exist are not generally of any great value.

Touche.

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Mxsmanic <mxsma…@hotmail.com> spewed forth most vilely news:hl3v30h4mmojchho7dm0hsb5prkfeq7bi7@4ax.com: > Michaela writes: >> I would have thought you would understand the value >> of emotional intelligence. > Things that do not exist are not generally of any great value.

It seems as though many can’t understand that fads are a part of medicine & psychology.

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LET’S DO THE CROSS POST AGAIN

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"%" <surfs@uniserve> spewed forth most vilely news:103v4gq1hk7ld14@corp.supernews.com: > LET’S DO THE CROSS POST AGAIN

Do we shake our hips? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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"Christina Peterson" <tinapet…@yahoo.com> spewed forth most vilely news:1077873723.165001@prawn: > Dunno, but I bet you wish you were smart enough to get one.

I think my "lame retort" warning sign is flashing.

Response:

Mxsmanic <mxsma…@hotmail.com> escribi

Question:

What is the theory of adjusting an entry to an Equity account (ex: Retained Earnings) to adjust an account with a debit or credit entry (one sided).  I reviewed these statements and journal entries and found that interim account subtotals are inaccurate.  I would think you would use a "working accounting G/L account". These were submitted by a CPA firm.  Is this a quick and dirty way to generate the financial statements?  Any reference web sites to this matter? Thanks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the theory of adjusting an entry to an Equity account (ex: Retained Earnings) to adjust an account with a debit or credit entry (one sided). I reviewed these statements and journal entries and found that interim account subtotals are inaccurate.  I would think you would use a "working accounting G/L account". These were submitted by a CPA firm.  Is this a quick and dirty way to generate the financial statements?  Any reference web sites to this matter? Thanks

I don’t think are any "theories" to a one sided entry (maybe a prior year adjustment) …. better ask the CPA firm !

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What is the theory of adjusting an entry to an Equity account (ex: Retained Earnings) to adjust an account with a debit or credit entry (one sided).  I reviewed these statements and journal entries and found that interim account subtotals are inaccurate.  I would think you would use a "working accounting G/L account". These were submitted by a CPA firm.  Is this a quick and dirty way to generate the financial statements?  Any reference web sites to this matter?

        Can’t comment on a one-sided entry.  However, the "theory" of a journal entry to the equity section of the balance sheet is to make the income statement look better. FWK

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I’m not sure that’s fair, Frank, the poor guy might believe you!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the theory of adjusting an entry to an Equity account (ex: Retained Earnings) to adjust an account with a debit or credit entry (one sided).  I reviewed these statements and journal entries and found that interim account subtotals are inaccurate.  I would think you would use a "working accounting G/L account". These were submitted by a CPA firm.  Is this a quick and dirty way to generate the financial statements?  Any reference web sites to this matter? Can’t comment on a one-sided entry.  However, the "theory" of a journal entry to the equity section of the balance sheet is to make the income statement look better. FWK

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I’m not sure that’s fair, Frank, the poor guy might believe you!

        Yeah, I realized after I posted the message that I neglected to put a smiley face after the sentence.  Oh, well… FWK

Response:

What is the theory of adjusting an entry to an Equity account (ex: Retained Earnings) to adjust an account with a debit or credit entry (one sided).

It seems to me that you must have stuffed up the opening balance in the first place.

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Question:

A bit of humor to lighten things up — Pat W FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk. PURE SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else’s cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need. BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else’s cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as the regulations say you should need. FASCISM: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk. PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk. RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk. DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you. SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. The government flogs you for keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment. MILITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you. PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk. REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk. AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate". BRITISH DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. You feed them sheep’s’ brains and they go mad. The government doesn’t do anything. BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows. ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors try to kill you and take the cows. CAPITALISM: You have no cows. But you are blasted by commercials that assure you that you have a thousand cows, a thousand bulls, and a ranch bigger than Texas. But you have no cows, no chickens, and no farm or ranch. ANARCHY-CAPITALISM :You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull HONG KONG CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly-listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax deduction for keeping five cows. The milk rights of six cows are transferred via a Panamanian intermediary to a Cayman Islands company secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sell the rights to all seven cows’ milk back to the listed company. The annual report says that the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. Meanwhile, you kill the two cows because the feng shui is bad. ENVIROMENTALISM: You have two cows. The government bans you from milking or killing them. TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned. POLITICAL CORRECTNESS: You are associated with (the concept of "ownership" is a symbol of the phallo-centric, war-mongering, intolerant past) two differently-aged (but no less valuable to society) bovines of non-specified gender. COUNTER CULTURE: Wow, dude, there’s like. . .these two cows, man. You got to have some of this milk. BOTULISM: You have two cows. They get into spoiled grain….. LIBERTARIANISM: Whatever… SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons. The sun rises in the north on alternate Tuesdays. YOU ARE IN A COMMUNITY. You have two cows. You graze them in a community village green. Or at least you can traipse into town and hang out in the village square. You and neighbors you know and trust each other and exchange trivia about the weather and who is into what. You find yourself talking to a neighbor who has two bulls. You trade one of your cows for one of your neighbor’s bulls. No one writes this up in a case file. No one collects a ‘middle-person’ percentage or tax or rake-off. You do not call this any kind of ‘ism.’ You are in a community. –Anonymous

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[Chuckle chuckle chuckle]…. [chuckle some more]… That was funny. laura

Response:

Thanks for this, Pat! Of course, I posted it to the mailing list from my old hippie commune… which really was a community. — Benita "Pat Wilson" <pwil…@neb.rr.com> wrote in message

news:5tyF7.405344$ME2.46170383@typhoon.kc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A bit of humor to lighten things up — Pat W > FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk. > PURE SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them > in a barn with everyone else’s cows. You have to take care of all the cows. > The government gives you as much milk as you need. > BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and > puts them in a barn with everyone else’s cows. They are cared for by > ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government > took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as > many eggs as the regulations say you should need. > FASCISM: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take > care of them, and sells you the milk. > PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of > them, and you all share the milk. > RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the > government takes all the milk. > DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you. > SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. The government flogs you for > keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment. > MILITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you. > PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk. > REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to > tell you who gets the milk. > AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows if you vote > for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in > cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate". > BRITISH DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. You feed them sheep’s’ brains and they > go mad. The government doesn’t do anything. > BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you > can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. > After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk > down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the > missing cows. > ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your > neighbors try to kill you and take the cows. > CAPITALISM: You have no cows. But you are blasted by commercials that assure > you that you have a thousand cows, a thousand bulls, and a ranch bigger than > Texas. But you have no cows, no chickens, and no farm or ranch. > ANARCHY-CAPITALISM :You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull > HONG KONG CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell three of them to your > publicly-listed company, using letters of credit opened by your > brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with associated > general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax deduction for > keeping five cows. The milk rights of six cows are transferred via a > Panamanian intermediary to a Cayman Islands company secretly owned by the > majority shareholder, who sell the rights to all seven cows’ milk back to > the listed company. The annual report says that the company owns eight cows, > with an option on one more. Meanwhile, you kill the two cows because the > feng shui is bad. > ENVIROMENTALISM: You have two cows. The government bans you from milking or > killing them. > TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and denies > they ever existed. Milk is banned. > POLITICAL CORRECTNESS: You are associated with (the concept of "ownership" > is a symbol of the phallo-centric, war-mongering, intolerant past) two > differently-aged (but no less valuable to society) bovines of non-specified > gender. > COUNTER CULTURE: Wow, dude, there’s like. . .these two cows, man. You got to > have some of this milk. > BOTULISM: You have two cows. They get into spoiled grain….. > LIBERTARIANISM: Whatever… > SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take > harmonica lessons. The sun rises in the north on alternate Tuesdays. > YOU ARE IN A COMMUNITY. You have two cows. You graze them in a community > village green. Or at least you can traipse into town and hang out in the > village square. You and neighbors you know and trust each other and exchange > trivia about the weather and who is into what. You find yourself talking to > a neighbor who has two bulls. You trade one of your cows for one of your > neighbor’s bulls. No one writes this up in a case file. No one collects a > ‘middle-person’ percentage or tax or rake-off. You do not call this any kind > of ‘ism.’ You are in a community. > –Anonymous

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Question:

<<<<<You can often get a real bargin if you are willing to take delivery in the Virgin Islands The boat may be a bargin but the paperwork might not be.  Check out this months Cruising World. Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport

Response:

The miracle is in the number of those who escaped. How many? I have hears that 20 thouand were there. The revelation may lie in the number who die in the whirlwind. We must all die someday.  What matters is how and why. Some believe there is no better way, nor any other or better hope, than to kill in hateful suicide, for some reason. Who does not believe that in flight, security must be paramount? Americans and us need put up with a little more delay in air travel. Who does not believe in the need for safety of those above the reach of fire ladders?  Where were the sprinkler systems in the dwellings of those who worked amongst the clouds? Where the rooftop water counterweight and fire reservoirs to damp the earthquakes and soak the fires? Where the scupper drains to empty the floors of fuel and water? Fuel fires destroyed the towers, not bombs, not collisions. If this fuel had rained down on the streets, what difference would there be in the damage? What air would have been left in the towers? What analysis can we do on this? "We cannot put locks on the pilots’ cabins doors – there are no doors." – Who says this, and why? Is profit, business, even the price of one passenger’s weight in a door, more important than the safety of the entire city?  Have we seen another overturning of the tables in the temple? This is man’s doing. Good will spread more quickly than evil, still quagmired with no good foundation. Logic is the stuff of intelligence. The real enemy is stupidity. What could a hundred men with knives accomplish if behind an iron net? Why are these men so angry, so fearful? Does the ‘intelligence service’ think that world peace and security is better served by offensive weapons or by just aid to the poor, here and abroad? What is justice? Is this attack the expression of a few desperate determined angry foolish poor religious fearful with hungry children? What power has our rich technology lent them in it’s blind stupid hubris? Will it lend them the power to feed their kin? "An attack on one is an attack on all." -Nato charter.  Attack the fools who cannot even see past the back of a pilot’s head. These educated buffoons are the instruments, not the architects. How do we survey a solution? Do we map the hungry? Why have we seen devouted Muslim women and children cheer another’s misfortunessess on TV?  Fear?  Of what?  Their own religious leaders? Are they slaves? What do their men believe? Do they understand the fairness in equality and unity of all people? Do men, women, children have rights as men, to choose, or must every breath and gesture, not to mention every flutter of the heart, be prescribed and proscribed by the mad fears of some immam who has forgotton about man’s greatest gift – free will, given by God? What greater glory for God than good behavoir, freely given out of knowlege, not under pain of punishment, nor bribery with pleasures not allowed here in God’s childrens’ garden? The best defence against ingenious revenge is first to give no offence. Second, accept a little offence gracefully as part of the burden shared with your brother – we must all improve a little, then die in the flesh. Third, justly punish offenders. Punishment must not exceed the crime. I complain that we built a flawed system.  We need pilot security. We need lack of motivation to insane hate. Huge business has no other motivation than profit. It is subhuman. It’s rights are less than human, especially regardless of size, even so that the larger must carry the greater responsibility to be governed by human values or be taxed to death. We the citizens demand our government do as we bid, or we must sue -even- individuals. Clinton disbarred? Justice? Artificial intelligence has arrived, it is a meme-process distributed between corporate treasure chests, accounting books larger than any mere human size, survival motivation, and an invulnerable market with insatiable needs and desires. It is fed by communications.  Artificial sentience is a different thing. Things are worth only what you can trade them for. Oil for bread? Oil for water pipelines? Teach your brother and sister to fish! Financial privacy is dead, especially for significant sums. Has been for a while. We will find the money trail, even if it means we will open up some local governmental accounts, especially if it means audits for slush funds in our own government.  Personal anonymity is dead. No one has a right to say anything unless he shows his face. How then to protect privacy? Tell me, what is the present regulation intended to do?  Protect sculduggery, or protect citizens from unwarranted intrusions? Punitive snooping policy, especially for those who reproduce my copyrighted email address without fair use, sould fine offenders appropriately, couldn’t it? Spam is not fair use. Terry K -SofDevCo- Yes, we have ideas. SofDevCo stands for Software and Development Co-operators.

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Would like to purchase older Prout sailing cat (34-38′). If you know of one, please email me at:

Response:

You might check with some of the bigger Charter companies like the Moorings or Sunsail if you are looking for a cheap older cat. You can often get a real bargin if you are willing to take delivery in the Virgin Islands.

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Question:

Ha  … good one.  As we used to say in the OR…all bleeding eventually stops.

Response:

I got to wondering: What exactly is the reward for risking a high speed descent, especially in a race where the complete bike leg is measured in hours rather than just minutes?

Well, on some of the long switched back decents in Lanzarote I can take 3-4 minutes out of less competent decenders. Its 3-4 minutes that would be very hard earned if it was done going uphill. Granted this is a lot to do with cornering but you do need to pile on the speed when the opportunity presents itself. Brian P "they call him Fatboy" Casey

Response:

I got to wondering: What exactly is the reward for risking a high speed descent, especially in a race where the complete bike leg is measured in hours rather than just minutes?

Ummm, because it’s so friggin’ fun? <G Seriously, if you have enough hills, those 9 seconds add up to minutes. And it’s "free" speed.  If you have to make those 9 seconds back up on the run, it takes more energy. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just to clarify, based on the last several responses: My point was not that you shouldn’t go fast on the descents – clearly, you have to go fast because everybody else will be and you can quickly get left far behind. What my quickie analysis showed was that the difference between going fast and going dangerously fast might be marginal in many cirucmstances, which might not be intuitively obvious. If you’re already doing 40 mph on a mile-long drop, cranking it up to 50 only buys you 9 seconds. If your perception of the risk/reward trade-off concludes that those 9 seconds are worth it, then so be it. The problem is, most people believe that the reward is much greater than that, and it isn’t.

You still seem to be missing the central point of most of the responses, that a faster time is not the only reward under consideration. Hemingway said the only real sports were auto racing, mountain climbing, and bullfighting, and that anything else was just a game, because to be a sport, an activity has to carry a palpable risk of horrible death. It’s not the 9 seconds you save, it’s the minute you spend at 50 mph, which is probably the only minute out of the whole week that you feel truly alive.  A ship is safe in the harbor, but then that is not what a ship is made for.  The idea is that when people hit that big hill, they want to see just how fast they *can* go. Hint to spectators observing winding descents: stand on the inside of sharp curves!

Keep quiet! Do we have to take you out back and work you over? They’re not supposed to know that.  If they want to watch us face danger, they should have to share in it.  What are you, some kind of whale-saving, fiber-munching safety nazi, out to use the nanny-state to create some cradle to grave zero-risk womb society?   Brian "hey, it’s Friday" Wagner

Response:

I have always been a little tentative on long fast downhill sections.   So I thought Id ask the group for advice. 1. Over 35-40 MPH, I get a wobble in my rear wheel.  Is this normal? Should I just get used to it or is there something I can do to stop the wobble. 2. Does anyone have advice for descending in windy conditions, especially cross winds. Thanks in advance, Joey

Response:

I have always been a little tentative on long fast downhill sections.   So I thought Id ask the group for advice. 1. Over 35-40 MPH, I get a wobble in my rear wheel.  Is this normal? Should I just get used to it or is there something I can do to stop the wobble.

Speed wobble! Lovely!  Try shifting your weight slightly (and not suddenly!).  I’m told that the classic downhill position is:- a.      Pedals horizontal b.      Most of your weight on the pedals c.      Knees in. If you still get a wobble, shift your bum slightly forward or backwards on the saddle.  Another trick is to touch your crossbar with your knee. I’ve never had to do this, but I read somewhere that the wobble can be caused by a sort of harmonic vibration and touching the crossbar ruins the harmonics.   Apparently griping your aerobars until you knuckles go white doesn’t have the same effect.  ;-) 2. Does anyone have advice for descending in windy conditions, especially cross winds.

Not really, just look out for gaps in the trees/buildings etc along the road and be prepared for the gusts.  Use the middle of the carriageway so that a gust doesn’t but you in the ditch or into oncoming traffic. Thanks in advance, Joey

Cheers Jeff P.S.  I’m assuming that you’re not pedalling!  I can induce a wobble/bounce if my cadence goes over 160 on a downhill.  (A very rare event – my personal cadence record is only 165!) — Jeff Cook At work: Phone: +64-9-424 5388 At home: Phone: +64-9-424 0336

Response:

I have always been a little tentative on long fast downhill sections.   So I thought Id ask the group for advice. 1. Over 35-40 MPH, I get a wobble in my rear wheel.  Is this normal? Should I just get used to it or is there something I can do to stop the wobble.

Depends on the cause.  It sure sounds like classic "high speed shimmy", which occurs when the natural oscillations of the frame, fork, wheels and rider hit a resonant mode and start "adding". If so, you should be able to stop it by unweighting the saddle (not always the first thing you’d think to do under the circumstances…) or by clamping the top tube with your knees.  If this stops it, it’s HSS. If not, there are a host of other things to consider – start by making sure your wheels are not grossly out of true or round (include the tires), and that there is no lateral play in either wheel. 2. Does anyone have advice for descending in windy conditions, especially cross winds.

Wear a helmet?  ;-)  Riding along the beach in Florida made me a bit of an expert in windy conditions.  It wasn’t unusual to see flags flying straight out, 180 degrees apart in direction, within no more than 50 yards (meters) due to the wind tunnel effect of the condos along the beach.  You have to learn to anticipate where the wind will be, and adjust BEFORE you get to it (i.e. crossing over a bridge, start turning "into the wind" before it hits you – or be ready to adjust for cars going by, taking away your "wind bias"). Your position on the bike should be very stable to begin with – if you’re way out over the front axle on a too-long stem to make up for a too-small top tube, the wind can be "more exciting".  In some cases, about the only thing that makes sense is to leave the deep dish aero wheel at home and break out that old training wheel (which could actually make you a lot faster in windiy conditions, since you will have gobs more confidence). Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

Don’t descend on your aerobars.  If you want to descend in a tuck get on your cowhorns, you will have more control especially at high speed.  Usually sitting back slightly will also give you a little more control.  This comes more from my mountainbiking experience, but it seems to give you a little more stability at speed, especially with the altered geometry of a tri-bike. Jeff’s description of a downhill is right on IMHO.  Had a nice little short descent (1/3-1/2 mile)on a 50 miler yesterday and I just missed hitting 50mph on my LS Saber with nary a twitch from the rear end.  Get a pretty good adrenaline surge going that fast. Lance

Response:

I got to wondering: What exactly is the reward for risking a high speed descent, especially in a race where the complete bike leg is measured in hours rather than just minutes? Let’s suppose we have a very steep half-mile descent. Let’s further suppose that you can take it at 40 mph and be comfortable and in control, whereas 50 would give you the heebie-jeebie wobbles. What’s the benefit in risking the extra 10 mph? The numbers tell it all: barreling down at 50 mph for a half-mile saves you a whopping 9 seconds. It sounds hard to believe that the difference could be that small, but as it turns out, the length of the downhill isn’t the relevant factor when determining the speed advantage; the time you spend on it is. At 40 mph you’ll cover the half-mile in 45 seconds. Going an additional 10 mph only whittles that down by 9 seconds because you’re not there long enough for it to make more of a difference. It’s also worth noting that, for the same absolute increase in speed, relative differences decrease with increasing speed. Cranking up from 10 mph to 20 mph is a 100% increase. That’s significant, and will cut in half your time over a given distance. But going from 40 mph to 50, which is also a 10 mph increase, is only 25% faster. This makes going uphill a completely different story. Not only are incremental speed differences much more significant, but you’ll also be spending a lot more time on the ascent. Climbing that half-mile hill at 10 mph will take 3 minutes; doing it at 20 mph will take 1-1/2 minutes. That’s a difference worth worrying about. A triathlon, unlike a pure bike race, is an individual event that carries no obligation to keep up with teammates. So before you commit to a screaming, teeth-gritting suicide plunge down the steepest part of the course, put your intuition aside and run the numbers to see if the benefit is worth the risk of a nasty, high-speed wipeout. I have always been a little tentative on long fast downhill sections.   So I thought Id ask the group for advice. 1. Over 35-40 MPH, I get a wobble in my rear wheel.  Is this normal? Should I just get used to it or is there something I can do to stop the wobble. 2. Does anyone have advice for descending in windy conditions, especially cross winds. Thanks in advance, Joey

– – "nospam" is a defense against spam – http://LeeGruenfeld.com

Response:

It’s not a common sense thing.  In fact its probably just little ignorant, but WHAT A RUSH!!!! "I feel the need..the need for speed"- Mother Goose – Top Gun "Wear your  helmet"- My mother LF

Is the need for speed anything like the phrase "I feel the need..the need to bleed"? RS

Response:

It’s not a common sense thing.  In fact its probably just little ignorant, but WHAT A RUSH!!!! "I feel the need..the need for speed"- Mother Goose – Top Gun "Wear your  helmet"- My mother LF

Response:

Let’s suppose we have a very steep half-mile descent. Let’s further suppose that you can take it at 40 mph and be comfortable and in control, whereas 50 would give you the heebie-jeebie wobbles. What’s the benefit in risking the extra 10 mph?

Because you can!  Because to live is to dare!  Because, if you open your mouth, you can scoop in more protein-rich bugs to keep you from bonking! The numbers tell it all: barreling down at 50 mph for a half-mile saves you a whopping 9 seconds.

Life is about more than numbers.  We’re triathletes, not accountants. This makes going uphill a completely different story. Not only are incremental speed differences much more significant, but you’ll also be spending a lot more time on the ascent. Climbing that half-mile hill at 10 mph will take 3 minutes; doing it at 20 mph will take 1-1/2 minutes. That’s a difference worth worrying about.

***BUT*** given the typical topography of the planet, most downhills are followed by uphills.  Today’s word is momentum. A triathlon, unlike a pure bike race, is an individual event that carries no obligation to keep up with teammates. So before you commit to a screaming, teeth-gritting suicide plunge down the steepest part of the course, put your intuition aside and run the numbers to see if the benefit is worth the risk of a nasty, high-speed wipeout.

Or, if you want to suck the marrow out of life, slap the gearing to the top, crouch down in a tight aero tuck, and shout, "Heglumeh’ qac javjam!"

Response:

A triathlon, unlike a pure bike race, is an individual event that carries no obligation to keep up with teammates. So before you commit to a screaming, teeth-gritting suicide plunge down the steepest part of the course, put your intuition aside and run the numbers to see if the benefit is worth the risk of a nasty, high-speed wipeout.

    My over weight instinct says to scream my big keister as fast as I can go.  However, on several occasions I have had to weigh the issue of "to scream downhill" or let up a little in the name of common sense.  I’ve done it both ways and I’m finding more reasons to be more cautious.  I agree with Lee that high speed descents can be done within comfortable limits without losing substantial time.  Furthermore, using the drops at high speed rather than remaining on the aero bars, especially if you are going to pass someone, is also a good idea.  What do you lose?  Hardly anything. Meanwhile, I’ll  try to learn how to scream uphill.  So far the only thing screaming are my unshaven slow moving legs. Sincerely, Rick  Swanger

Response:

    My over weight instinct says to scream my big keister as fast as I can go.  However, on several occasions I have had to weigh the issue of "to scream downhill" or let up a little in the name of common sense.  

common sense? COMMON SENSE?!?!?! What use does someone who finds swimming, cycling, and running long distances in rapid succession to be fun have for common sense?

Response:

Did I say "common sense"?  Sorry about that, I meant to say "common cents". Rick Swanger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My over weight instinct says to scream my big keister as fast as I can go.  However, on several occasions I have had to weigh the issue of "to scream downhill" or let up a little in the name of common sense. common sense? COMMON SENSE?!?!?! What use does someone who finds swimming, cycling, and running long distances in rapid succession to be fun have for common sense?

Response:

Question:

hi, i am new to this sort of stuff, and just wanted to know the answer to my question, with public sector accouting, in what ways or similar is it to private sector company accounting, is it something to do with shares, and the owner of the companies? please explain John

Response:

It is not similar. Government accounting is focused on allocation of resources and furnishing services, and most importantly, accountability of spending. Private sector’s accounting is focused on generating income. Thus, the reporting standards for both is different based on the information needs of the financial statement reader. In the private sector, readers are interested in income generation and growth. The public sector’s accounting, financial statement readers are interested in making sure that the allocation of resources are following budgets and are expended properly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi, i am new to this sort of stuff, and just wanted to know the answer to my question, with public sector accouting, in what ways or similar is it to private sector company accounting, is it something to do with shares, and the owner of the companies? please explain John

Response:

Question:

And valium can cost "x" in one pharmacy and "y" in another. Like, Lisa, I’m unclear on the point your making. To me, it’s a shopping thing — as a consumer, shop around for the best price. Getting down to the nitty gritty, my insurance pays $786 to the pharmacy, I pay another $8 to the pharmacy so if my math is correct, that’s $794 to the pharmacy. Best regards, Meg

Response:

i think you could safely say abc’s range from about 850 to 1200 a month. (i have tried all three at this point. betaseron seems to be the keeper for me) i’m not sure what point you are trying to make. in all cases the literature i received from the drug companies gave me THEIR price for the drug. gramted it was in small print usually and not prominently highlighted. the literature also said some insurance companies have agreements with alternate providers and the drug company could not guarantee pricing in those cases — which is why i believe there is variation between some mail order pricing and various pharmacies like cvs and walgreens. my insurance WILL NOT allow me to order directly from Berlex (by the way, Berlex makes Betaseron, not Avonex as someone indicated. Biogen makes Avonex.) i have no idea what they are paying for the drug or where they are buying it from. I never see a bill. i pick it up at my docs office each month. my hmo doesnt cover injectibles, except for insulin. but through some loophole or fear of getting sued or some thing i am thankful for, they will cover the ms drugs anyway. for reasons i dont understand, the only way they will cover it is if it is delivered to the doctor’s office instead of directly to me or to a pharmacy where i’d pick it up. inconvienent,  but i can live with it considering i dont even have a copay for the stuff. plus, originally i was having to drive to my neuro’s office, which is 35 miles away. but they agreed to ship it to my primary care doc, even tho she didnt prescribe it. it’s only ten miles to her office. like i said, i have no idea what it is costing the insurance company. but i know it is somewhere in that 850-1200 range. another factor is that berlex, and i cant recall with biogen or teva marion, gives 2 months of the year for free if you order for ten consecutive months. anyway, i am curious about what you are driving at. >First let me say that a message regarding price ranges of the ABC drugs >should be permanently displayed and updated for viewers (new and old) of >this newsgroup.

Be Well, Lisa to send email, remove 123 from my address. "Please explain to me the scientific nature of ‘The Whammy’" – Scully "The Daily News asks her for the dope. She says, ‘Man, the dope’s that there’s still hope.’"- Springsteen

Response:

To complicate the ABC drug pricing policy. I get Betaseron free from the Veterans Administration. The box of Betaseron comes to me with a yellow Post It Note. The note has $558.19. I would guess this is the price the V.A. pays for Betaseron. Chuck   l

Response:

You might find it interesting to know that in Nova Scotia, if you get the drug through the MS Clinic, the govt pays the total amount.  I don’t know about other provinces. Gaylan Meg <mliverg…@mindspring.com123> wrote in message

news:7pnps9$257$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And valium can cost "x" in one pharmacy and "y" in another. Like, Lisa, I’m > unclear on the point your making. To me, it’s a shopping thing — as a > consumer, shop around for the best price. Getting down to the nitty gritty, > my insurance pays $786 to the pharmacy, I pay another $8 to the pharmacy so > if my math is correct, that’s $794 to the pharmacy. Best regards, Meg

Response:

alexandgaylan wrote: > You might find it interesting to know that in Nova Scotia, if you get the > drug through the MS Clinic, the govt pays the total amount.  I don’t know > about other provinces. > Gaylan

This is not the case in Newfoundland. The Government will only pay an amount based on an income analysis. With the price of these drugs who can afford $1,500 a month.

Response:

My Avonex was $535 a month.  It all bullsh*t.  They charge whatever the insurance companies are willing to pay. Rachelle

Response:

Correction:  Berlex makes Betaseron. teva.mar…@hmrag.com    makes Copaxone. Biogen makes Avonex. I posted that message because it seems that at least once a week someone posts a message asking about the ABC’s and how much it will cost.  Their doctors should be able to give them at least a price range, but most probably won’t.  These people need INFORMATION to start with. When you check the web pages of the ABC makers, they avoid giving the average cost or even a price range.  There needs to be a way to be an informed consumer, especially for those who might have to bear all or part of the cost themselves, those who are concerned about a lifetime maximum on their insurance policies, and those who are trying to keep costs down period! If we could comparison shop, providers would have more incentive to offer lower prices.  If we all were conscientious about keeping the costs down, MSer’s might have better insurance, etc. options in the future. When I started on Avonex, cost information was avoided on the web pages, so I signed on with a provider who didn’t initially give me the correct price. When I saw the 1st EOB from the insurance company, I was alerted me that they were charging more than I was told.  I simply complained and got them to lower the price!  It’s apparently NO BIG DEAL to the provider.  They’ll charge as much as they can get away with! Again, the message was posted to help folks have INFORMATION to begin with. The cost shouldn’t be as ambiguous as the disease. news <5…@stoutinternet.com> wrote in message

<37bf4…@news.greennet.net>… >First let me say that a message regarding price ranges of the ABC drugs >should be permanently displayed and updated for viewers (new and old) of >this newsgroup. >One of the most irritating aspects is the difficulty obtaining upfront & >honest information about cost, etc. on any of them.

  Ask for the average price because – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->otherwise, the standard line is that "the price varies depending on the >provider and your insurance."  Once you know the average price, that might >give you some leverage with potential providers. >P.S.  Since a message regarding prices probably won’t be permanently >displayed here, maybe everyone should start out every message by stating the >price for the drug they’re taking.

Response:

First let me say that a message regarding price ranges of the ABC drugs should be permanently displayed and updated for viewers (new and old) of this newsgroup. It is a shame that the producers of the ABC drugs do not willingly share this information on their web pages and in the literature they distribute. One of the most irritating aspects is the difficulty obtaining upfront & honest information about cost, etc. on any of them. Look at the web sites of Avonex, Beterseron, & Copaxone.  Contact them and ask "what the average price is."  Ask for the average price because otherwise, the standard line is that "the price varies depending on the provider and your insurance."  Once you know the average price, that might give you some leverage with potential providers. Anyway, I’ve asked the group and I’ve been watching for prices.  This is what I’ve seen so far. Avonex: 1.  "Avonex Support" tells me that the "average cost" of Avonex is $852.  2.  Wal-Mart provides it for $868. 3.  Walgreen’s price $859. 4.  Eckerd’s price is approx. $875 5.  CVS charges $762.20. 6.  Walgreen’s in Colorado Springs Avonex (1 mo.) costs $859. 7.  Avonex was $989.40/mo through Berlex. 8.  Recently, I contacted my Rx provider to inform them that I would be changing pharmacies because while their price for Avonex was 1022.40, the "average" as reported by the Avonex support line is $852.  To make a long story short, they called me back to say that they will reduce the cost to $852! Copaxone: 1.  Walgreen’s in Colorado Springs Copaxone (1 mo.) costs an even $1,000. 2.  one month supply of Copax + supplies is about $1100.00 3.   copaxone  around $1,200 a month 4.  When insurance was paying for Copaxone it was $1,144 per month.  I understand there is a three tiered pricing of this drug,depending on who you get it from and what requirements your insurance has 5.  I am on Copaxone and, it can cost anywhere from $785 to $1,000 per month. 6.  one month supply of Copax + supplies is about $1100.00 7.  teva.mar…@hmrag.com    This is the company that makes Copaxone. Contact them and ask "what the average price is." 8.  Try SOMA.COM  They quoted me about $786 for a one month supply! for copaxone Betaseron 1.  cost about $1,100 a month  2.  Edmonton Canada.The best price I’ve found for a month supply of betaseron is $1500.  3.  My HMO looks at Betaseron as a treatment and pays for it 100%.  It depends on your policy. P.S.  Since a message regarding prices probably won’t be permanently displayed here, maybe everyone should start out every message by stating the price for the drug they’re taking.

Response:

In a message dated 08/25/1999 10:51:05 AM Central Daylight Time, DeeSad…@HOME.COM writes:

<< Speaking of pricing — my doc has suggested Avonex to me but have no  insurance that covers any meds. Any suggestions? There is no way I can  afford.   >> Dee,  Call  avonex @1-800-456-2255 and ask about their "access program",. I got on it last Oct.. It’s a sliding scale based on your previous year tax return. I am on medicare which does not pay for prescriptions.,  I have to pay for 4 months avonex and get 9 months free. My payments are $284 a month fo a year. It is a lot, but at least I am able to get the drug. Edee

Response:

In article <37C410F6.3BDF0…@home.com>, DeeSad…@HOME.COM (Dee Sadler) writes: >Speaking of pricing — my doc has suggested Avonex to me but have no >insurance that covers any meds. Any suggestions? There is no way I can >afford.

Call the avonex people. They do have a program to help make it available. My problem was that I still couldn’t afford it…but maybe things will work out so that you can. Margaret "You are braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think." Christopher Robin to Pooh in "Pooh’s Grand Adventure" to reply directly to me remove nojunk from my email address

Response:

If you’re a veteran, you can get many of these expensive medications for only a $2.00 co=pay if you meet certian income requirements…check it out, and GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Response:

Speaking of pricing — my doc has suggested Avonex to me but have no insurance that covers any meds. Any suggestions? There is no way I can afford. Dee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cleodemko wrote: > My Avonex was $535 a month.  It all bullsh*t.  They charge whatever the > insurance companies are willing to pay. > Rachelle

Response:

>Speaking of pricing — my doc has suggested Avonex to me but have no >insurance that covers any meds. Any suggestions? There is no way I can >afford.

Hi Dee, Try these: http://www.ims-1.com/~freemed/info.html http://home.texoma.net/~moreland/patient/free-2.html http://www.avonex.com Rachelle

Response:

In article <37c15…@news.greennet.net>,   "news" <5…@stoutinternet.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Correction:  Berlex makes Betaseron. > teva.mar…@hmrag.com    makes Copaxone. > Biogen makes Avonex. > I posted that message because it seems that at least once a week someone > posts a message asking about the ABC’s and how much it will cost. Their > doctors should be able to give them at least a price range, but most > probably won’t.  These people need INFORMATION to start with. > When you check the web pages of the ABC makers, they avoid giving the > average cost or even a price range.  There needs to be a way to be an > informed consumer, especially for those who might have to bear all or part > of the cost themselves, those who are concerned about a lifetime maximum on > their insurance policies, and those who are trying to keep costs down > period! > If we could comparison shop, providers would have more incentive to offer > lower prices.  If we all were conscientious about keeping the costs down, > MSer’s might have better insurance, etc. options in the future. > When I started on Avonex, cost information was avoided on the web pages, so > I signed on with a provider who didn’t initially give me the correct price. > When I saw the 1st EOB from the insurance company, I was alerted me that > they were charging more than I was told.  I simply complained and got them > to lower the price!  It’s apparently NO BIG DEAL to the provider. They’ll > charge as much as they can get away with! > Again, the message was posted to help folks have INFORMATION to begin with. > The cost shouldn’t be as ambiguous as the disease.

Your info was quite interesting. Many people have the cost paid by their insurance company so they really don’t care what the stuff costs.  That’s the way it goes with a lot of the U.S. health care system, which is why costs are so high. gordon Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

In article <7prmm8$4b…@nnrp1.deja.com>, darb…@my-deja.com writes: >Your $535    seems to be th elowball figure

Real low. Mine was $853. Kathi

Response:

Kathi Matthews wrote: > But the shipping costs don’t account for the difference between $535 and $853. > Neither, I think, does the local economy.  Not *that* much difference.   And > they should charge the same to all insurance companies. > Kathi

Then the difference is probably the individual pharmacy’s mark-up. Which, I agree, sucks. Lin ~~ You can tune a piano, but you can’t tuna fish ~~ My header never changes…..look carefully & don’t be fooled by forgeries!

Response:

In article <37C1E061.5…@fnet.FriendlyNet.com>, Lin&Jim <Danc…@fnet.FriendlyNet.com> writes: >W/ some slight variations, I’m sure that’s more-or-less how it’s handled >everywhere…..so I’m sure the price will vary somewhat depending on >where you live (shipping costs, general economy), what pharmacy you deal >w/, your insurance coverage, all that stuff.

But the shipping costs don’t account for the difference between $535 and $853. Neither, I think, does the local economy.  Not *that* much difference.   And they should charge the same to all insurance companies. Kathi

Response:

>Your $535    seems to be th elowball figure.  Why not tell the world >where you are buying it.

I bought it at Medic Drug in Cleveland Ohio. Rachelle

Response:

The VA doesn’t bother to tell me how much they pay for drugs. Beta seron is $1600/month in BC Fluvoxamine is about $72.00/month Oxybutnin?? Amantadine ?? Considering I have heard that total costs for a wheelchair bound person can add up to $1,000,000 per year  I think that supplying us with the drugs is a bargain to the providers. Thomas (Remove YOURHAT when replying) Taqueant colloquia

Response:

news wrote: > I posted that message because it seems that at least once a week someone > posts a message asking about the ABC’s and how much it will cost.  Their > doctors should be able to give them at least a price range, but most > probably won’t.  These people need INFORMATION to start with.

….& that info does NOT come from the dr’s office. It comes from the pharmacy who sells/handles the drug in question. Dr’s don’t spend their time running price checks between all the area pharmacies on all the drugs they could possibly write for! I call Jim at work & tell him I need a refill (if I forgot to write it down the night before)…..he calls Berlex & places my order…..they ship it to him at the pharmacy, where he then bills our insurance for their share of it. W/ some slight variations, I’m sure that’s more-or-less how it’s handled everywhere…..so I’m sure the price will vary somewhat depending on where you live (shipping costs, general economy), what pharmacy you deal w/, your insurance coverage, all that stuff. Lin ~~ You can tune a piano, but you can’t tuna fish ~~ My header never changes…..look carefully & don’t be fooled by forgeries!

Response:

>The cost shouldn’t be as ambiguous as the disease.

now i get your point Be Well, Lisa to send email, remove 123 from my address. "Please explain to me the scientific nature of ‘The Whammy’" – Scully "The Daily News asks her for the dope. She says, ‘Man, the dope’s that there’s still hope.’"- Springsteen

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> Gordon wrote: The point of the original post was to try to show the wide

price disparaties.  It was informative. The same price range exists for many drugs.  The drug companies will not explain it.  It seems though that U.S. customers pay for the research and development and the overseas customers get the price benefit. Mosssst people whose insurance co pays really don’t care about the price.  This helps on keeping the price up.  One time I challeneged a hospital bill.  They asked me why did I care since my insurance co was paying.  That is what drives up healyh care costs. < If I’m a retailer who wants to sell a product, and the wholesaler is making that product available to other retailers (no exclusivity), as a general rule the wholesaler sets a price. That wholesale price frequently comes with Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price, just to give retailers a ballpark area. But according to what the market will bear, it’s the retailer who sets the fair market value price on the product. If you want a lower price, shop around. If your insurance company won’t go to that lower-priced pharmacy, you might ask them why. If you’re unhappy that Americans pay more for a drug that was researched and developed in this country, then sold for less in other countries, I’ll simply say that I’m thankful to live in a country wealthy enough to research and develop drugs that could be to the benefit of all. Flame away, folks. That’s just my opinion. As to hospital charges — I, too, have challenged hospital bills, and have received the same comment from accounting. Then I called the insurance company and let them know. From that point, it’s their problem to challenge the bill or pay it. Done. Thanks. My best regards, Meg

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In article <19990822123818.09742.00002…@ng-fg1.aol.com>,   cleode…@aol.com (Cleodemko) wrote: > My Avonex was $535 a month.  It all bullsh*t.  They charge whatever the > insurance companies are willing to pay. > Rachelle

The point of the original post was to try to show the wide price disparaties.  It was informative. The same price range exists for many drugs.  The drug companies will not explain it.  It seems though that U.S. customers pay for the research and development and the overseas customers get the price benefit Mosssst people whose insurance co pays really don’t care about the price.  This helps on keeping the price up.  One time I challeneged a hospital bill.  They asked me why did I care since my insurance co was paying.  That is what drives up healyh care costs. Your $535    seems to be th elowball figure.  Why not tell the world where you are buying it. gordon Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

Is there any way to defeat the limitation QB puts on AR & AP accounts when making journal entries.  I’m mainly using the program just as a G/L package and the limitation of one AP or AR account referenced in a journal entry is pain.  Thanks for the help! Dave

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Is there any way to defeat the limitation QB puts on AR & AP accounts when making journal entries.  I’m mainly using the program just as a G/L package and the limitation of one AP or AR account referenced in a journal entry is pain.  Thanks for the help! Dave

If you are just looking to book a receivable, you can create your own "Other Asset" account and book it.  If you need it to be placed in a seperate ledger that will give you the ability to age the account, then I would enter it through the standard AR package. There is one other way.  You can set up an AR Clearing account.  You can post your Debit to this account, as many times as you need to, and then go into the AR module and create your billing for the day.  When you do your daily billing, reference the same AR Clearing account.  The objective in this scenario is to have a bubble at the close of an accounting period. Dave

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Is there any way to defeat the limitation QB puts on AR & AP accounts when making journal entries.  I’m mainly using the program just as a G/L package and the limitation of one AP or AR account referenced in a journal entry is pain.  Thanks for the help!

Create Other Current Asset/Liability Accounts called Receivable & Payable (no s). Post like any account. Mike Block, C.P.A. Tax Fighter, QuickBooks Professional Advisor 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33334;  954-566-7540       biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news!            Demanding voter approval of tax increases!

Response:

Is there any way to defeat the limitation QB puts on AR & AP accounts when making journal entries.  I’m mainly using the program just as a G/L package and the limitation of one AP or AR account referenced in a journal entry is pain.  Thanks for the help!

Create Other Current Asset/Liability Accounts called Receivable & Payable (no s). Post like any account. Use subaccounts if needed for individual customers/creditors. Mike Block, C.P.A. Tax Fighter, QuickBooks Professional Advisor 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33334;  954-566-7540       biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news!            Demanding voter approval of tax increases!

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Question:

I have a name and address file in an in-house accounting system that I am attempting to import into the EMP, CUST, VEND and OTHERNAME databases in that order.  I am finding some of the records corrupted with the data partially replaced by IIF fieldnames.  Quickbooks doesn’t report any errors and only one or two of two hundred records are affected.  The worst is the last CUST record which contains part of the header record of the VEND section which immediately follows.  Some data in the CUST record is replaced by field names in the following VEND header and other fields are OK.  Has anyone seen this type of corruption and dealt with it? Dennis Rakestraw

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Found it myself.  My file was corrupted by a quotation mark.  I wrote a routine to eliminate all TAB, CRLF, double quotes and in keyfields, colons from fields before they go into the IIF file. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a name and address file in an in-house accounting system that I am attempting to import into the EMP, CUST, VEND and OTHERNAME databases in that order.  I am finding some of the records corrupted with the data partially replaced by IIF fieldnames.  Quickbooks doesn’t report any errors and only one or two of two hundred records are affected.  The worst is the last CUST record which contains part of the header record of the VEND section which immediately follows.  Some data in the CUST record is replaced by field names in the following VEND header and other fields are OK.  Has anyone seen this type of corruption and dealt with it? Dennis Rakestraw

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