Question:

Note: Adaptation / mutation leads to the long bridge evolution from whats pre-existing as evolution is the result post after not pre before…..correctly put from a linear view looking back but? Now the pre-existing raw materials are composed of enuff,… "FIRST OFF"… too support the end result. As enuff was there too state B was planned before A started in the sequence A first B second (existing potential A-B). So one must rule out life started here a first time and only here a first time. If theres a way to beat this scheme i would appreciate learning it. Cause this makes the end result the basis of the existence before the existence occurs as sequensual picking up where it left off of course…..jd

Response:

‘The Second Law [of Thermodynamics] is one piece of technical bad news from science that has established itself ffirmly on the nonscientific culture [how sweet! Science is a cult] Everything tends toward disorder. Any process that converts energy from one form to another must lose some heat. Perfect efficiency is impossible. The universe is a one-way street. Entropy must always increase in the universe and in any hypothetical isolated system within it. However expressed, the Second Law is a rule from which there seems no appeal.’ The second law of thermodynamics does not make life impossible. Life always leads to a net increase of entropy.

Thats exactly what the problem is. Life decreases entropy. The only reason you can say that entropy only increases is because in creating life, more entropy byproducts were created in doing so than can be accounted for in the organism. Life is negative entropy. The increase in entropy is on the total system/universe. ‘Somehow, after all, as the universe ebbs toward its final equilibrium in the featureless heat bath of maximum entropy, it manges to create interesting structures. Yes. This already should tell you that life is not impossible (life works because of its structure after all).

No, it tells me that what we see is the result of nature finding itself having to acquire a more stable state in ways that result in what you call order. Water is heavier than air. It has a ‘need’ to release this potential energy stored against gravity, it falls out of the sky. That water freezes into geometric forms (no 2 of which being alike as another measure of disorder) is of no consequence. The sun is round too. The order of roundness is the result of nuclear explosions balancing gravitational force. The purpose of nature is to set us free. Nature has no purpose so this is its purpose as far as incarnations are concerned. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘But thermodynamic entropy fails miserably as a measure of the changing degree of form and formlessness in the creation of the amino acids, of microorganisms, of self-reproducing plants and animals, of complex information systems like the brain. Certainly these evolving islands of order must obey the Second Law. They obey it of course. The bottom line is that entropy can not explain life, yet all matter is subject to entropy. We are neither matter or energy. The bottom line is that replicators do not violate thermodynamical laws. Come out from the closet and reveal your views about replicators made out of matter? Are they impossible? Can they ‘animate’? Why? Why not? Have you got problems with the well-established fact of evolution?

These are all your dreams. The leap from an amino acid to a cell the equivalent of throwing a Pentium chip in a pile of electronics and finding a microprocessor. Further, I saw somewhere the odds of the minimum piece of DNA for ANY form of life – which has over 400 letters, has a probability of 1 in 10 exp 600. That is 1 to a 1 with 600 zeros behind it. A 1 with 12 zeros after it is a trillion. So that would be a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion to 1 odds against such a thing happening. But once if it did, it would be equally useless as cells are not simply DNA and are in fact vastly more complicated. You can take 570 measly million years of ocean and volcanos and lightning – whatever – the number of combinations over that period of time will not come anywhere near close to that number. It is likely there are not that many particles in the universe. Atoms do not strive for anything. No constructing of any mechanical contraption whether macroscopic or microscopic can ever amount to life. Until life animates it it is no more than a pile of junk (or atoms). There is nothing anymore special about replicators than any other chemical reaction. I don’t get excited about rust either. Or burning trash or digesting food. (enzymes/catalysts). If anything is being replicated it will require life to do it. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marcus

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matter can not animate matter. Are you saying self-replicating mechanisms are impossible? How and why? Atoms have no motivation. a) don’t project human qualities to matter and b) if you wish, atoms are ‘motivated’ to form molecules etc. They do not strive to achieve one condition or another unless acted upon by force. See above. Your argument is bogus. The 4 forces in nature/the universe acknowledged by science do not have motivation/strive for anything either. You are mixing up things.

Got to be a brain-dead biologist I am talking to. You would be real popular over on bionet.neuroscience. They also are under severe delusions. They are simply part of a deterministic chain of events. Atoms and forces do not strive to stay alive. They have no ‘reason’ to do so. Is it possible to build self-replicating structures or not? Those kind of structures clearly exist, don’t they?

Cells replicate. Cells are alive. That molecules replicate is no more significant than rust replicating. It is very significant. The oldest replicators on this planet are way older than any non-replicating thing. Replication can store order for very long times.

Replicating life does. I do not know what you are asking exactly. I mean I can not tell you what is necessary to entice life to animate something. ‘Build it and they will come’ seems doubtful to me. I see no reason why self-replicating mechanisms would be impossible. It also seems that life is based on self-replicating structures.

You see no reason. But you have no reason. Action requires energy. Before anything does anything it takes energy. Now how exactly is it that gravity, the strong/weak and electromagnetic force will act in such a way so as to replicate? What incentive do molecules have for doing this? It is not to achieve greater stability because life is negative entropic/is a higher order/ requires energy and more order. Not less. You are telling me that you can construct a ladder that is fancy enough so that when you jump of it you will fall upward. Not going to happen. Life is un-natural from the point of view of the FOUR total forces science acknowledges. Life is a force science has not yet been able to reckon with. Denying it does not make it go away. Molecules do not strive for anything. Nor do atoms. Nor do the 4 forces. They are at all times the results nature attempting to achieve equibrium. Once that state is achieved it remains that way forever after unless and until that balance is disturbed by a force acting on it. Life on the other hand is contradictory to equilbrium. To see this in physics, take a look at the Carnot Cycle. Then apply that same principle considering that ALL matter is part of a machine/mechanical contraption – physical human bodies and brains and minds as well. All subject to the same fate. Part of the universe. Ordered cells with ordered molecules. Life force animates matter for the same reason shoes fall to the earth. Life force is the cause/ordered matter from energy manipulated by that life force into bodies. Physical bodies are the result/effect of the cause of life-force. Life force like gravity also is a force. It behaves in a very determined way. It is science problem that they do not know the equation for karma/cause and effect relationship of lifeforce. But – hey, Newton needed an apple to fall on his head to identify gravity not that long ago. (just kidding) Another way of looking at it is rocks on a mountain have stored karma also. They await their chance to release the potential energy stored in them. So also life awaits to play out karma/causes in bodies. Thats not exactly a yoga way of describing this. Atman is Perfect at all times and never does anything/never has a need to do anything. But a bound soul/jiva is one that has karma stored and must have a body to release it. The cause is the stored desire. The body is the effect to accomplish it. This is equally true of one-celled creatures. All living things have desires/strive. Plants strive for sunlight to grow/stay alive. Self-preservation. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marcus

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is incorrect. Waves produce order by shuffling pebbles on the beach, snowflakes are very ordered compared with water etc. Non-living processes procude order all the time, your claim that only life can increase order is demonstrably incorrect. Waves errode shells. I was talking about how waves or wind create ordered patterns in sand. Life strives for order along with self-preservation and reproduction. Snowflakes and shells strive for nothing. Self-replication. Are self-replicating mechanisms impossible? Can they be constructed with sufficiently advanced technology? What do you think? Evolution of replicators is a pretty neat thing, isn’t it? So is rust. I would not compare rust with the method which created the biosphere. Or are you anti-evolutionist fro some peculiar reason? If you are replicating something it implies you are adding order to the universe. Only things that are already alive have this characteristic. Take piracetam for cross-hemisphere brain communication improvement. Be left-handed or gay for better cross-hemisphere communication, ok? Matter can not animate matter. Are you saying self-replicating mechanisms are impossible? How and

why? Atoms have no motivation. They do not strive to achieve one condition or another unless acted upon by force. The 4 forces in nature/the universe acknowledged by science do not have motivation/strive for anything either. They are simply part of a deterministic chain of events. Atoms and forces do not strive to stay alive. They have no ‘reason’ to do so. You can not say exactly what you will do tomarrow. Your actions are not a function of the 4 forces of nature (alone). Shoes don’t make choices about whether or not to fall to the ground or not. But you have many choices that are not strictly dependent on these forces. One does not teach a molecule to survive. That molecules replicate is no more significant than rust replicating. I do not know what you are asking exactly. I mean I can not tell you what is necessary to entice life to animate something. ‘Build it and they will come’ seems doubtful to me. Bodies in yoga are called into existence from a 1-cell creature to man. This calling is a result of past stored energy in karmic seed energy. How physical things are called into play by these energies no one knows. Matter is the vehicle/result. Not the cause. Life is not an accident. Matter was called into play to release this energy in the same way energy from shoes falling to earth release their energy. This stored energy is karmic causes. Things that die store energy that results in similar type of that life. Time and space have no meaning for such stored causes. The tiny 4-5 billion years of life on earth is the blink of an eye on a yogic timescale. It  at best constituets a Day of Brahma (but not a night of equal length of time). Nobody can expect someone else to believe such things on say so. Science has not told me yoga is wrong and if so how so. The life of Brahma is 311 Trillion years. The life of a 1000 Brahmas is I think a mere 20 minutes of the life of Vishnu who also lives 100 years. (311x 3 x 24 x 365 x 1000 trillion years) It goes much further with Ishvara. Yoga says seers produced these numbers. They are higly suspect but equally unimportant. There is also talk about the big bang itself happens so fast it appears like a frequency of explosions and implosions. Birth is the result of death. The energy cause stored at death calls a physical body into being. The genetic construction is what is called for/a soul for instance is born into a family with suitable genes for the causes it must work out. One cell creatures strive to survive/have desire – they also are subject to karmic forces/causes. That the universe comes and goes they are uneffected by it. Life is not part of the gross physical universe. Again, I certainly don’t expect anyone to believe all of this but it is a good bet that life is a force science has not accounted for yet. Mistakenly identifying the shells of life for life. The machine is not life. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marcus

Response:

Grin, Theres "nothing honest" about the position of rebuttal you took as honesty would contrast to or lend too dishonesty. Then you go on to create paint your whatever just proving my estimate you can think have ideas but certainly black was never the absense of color just another color in itself found often as black. You think really its the absense of light but you dont say that you infer light is/as color yet you dont go to the next step correctly/fully/notice/have ever…. if you thought deeper also black is light….. blacklight not being slang for ultraviolet but simply black is a form of color a blacklight…….Too different to hard to see black as color and light for you i suspose cause you think……yet i notice your nuts bolts of thinking not your thoughts especially as your you. First its perfectly ok to estimate in any way anything as a basic done constantly ya know ? But if never having considered most recite from memory add aspect from applications other they might know or feel your no different in trying to qualify reinforce your memory……but i will give up something but with properties as all the other colors not an opposite to white . Then but removed or seperate from the object not the absense of light but another light is it not ? Sure it is the basic first removed seperate having seperated…….but yoga deals with light hence i am highly meditated in the tattwas dont expect someone with a highschool/college understanding of light to project any more than GUT REATIONS a safe commen mans intellect. I leave masterpieces ……hotta go……the artist… jd <snip of google thread no biggie **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** J.D. Campbell, It’s not correct to underestimate other people’s intelligence. Have you ever considered the possibility that people might not take interest replying to your post just because it might be unfounded or simply uninteresting? For example: about the example you posted. If you strike two objects they make a sound according to a number of factors. You have the unique atomic composition of the objects, the strengh of the strike, the point of impact, the density of the environment, etc. etc. So it proves nothing, neither materially nor spiritually. You just could have used a better example (or explanation). Regarding your previous post (which i quote at the end): Sounds like you made 4 dimensions out of 3. But even so, this is only space. You have also time. And the other universal laws and forces. You talk about colors. Actually, black is not the sum of color, but the absence of color. The sum of colors from the spectrum is white. And remember you also have infrared, ultraviolet, and others. The other things you write about have similar errors. I recommend you study before posting about any of these things, then people might take you seriously. Forgive me for being this honest, but it was you who asked for feedback. Best regards, Kriya Yogi

Response:

Sorry Marcus, I see I did not separate Entropy from enthalpy. Entropy seeks disorder/more degrees of freedom. Enthalpy is the property of nature to seek a more stable state. Other than that nothing has changed. Energy losses occur whenever energy is transformed from one state to another [entropy increases] this means heat death and more disorder are the fate of the univere assuming the universe does not implode before it happens. Also your snowflakes are on p307-317 (if you count the text that puts it in context) of Chaos Making a New Science by James Gleick. ‘The Second Law [of Thermodynamics] is one piece of technical bad news from science that has established itself ffirmly on the nonscientific culture [how sweet! Science is a cult] Everything tends toward disorder. Any process that converts energy from one form to another must lose some heat. Perfect efficiency is impossible. The universe is a one-way street. Entropy must always increase in the universe and in any hypothetical isolated system within it. However expressed, the Second Law is a rule from which there seems no appeal.’ p308 ‘Somehow, after all, as the universe ebbs toward its final equilibrium in the featureless heat bath of maximum entropy, it manges to create interesting structures. Thoughtful physicists concerned with the workings of thermodynamics realize how disturbing is the question of, as one put it, "how a purposeless flow of energy can wash life and consciousness into the world." Compounding the trouble is the slippery notion of entropy, reasonably defined for thermodynamic purposes in terms of heat and temperature, but devilishly hard to pin down as a measure of disorder. Physicists have trouble enough measuring the degree of order in water, forming crystalline structures in the transition to ice, energy bleeding away all the while.’ 308 ‘But thermodynamic entropy fails miserably as a measure of the changing degree of form and formlessness in the creation of the amino acids, of microorganisms, of self-reproducing plants and animals, of complex information systems like the brain. Certainly these evolving islands of order must obey the Second Law. The important laws, the creative laws, lie elsewhere.’ [of course he suggests Chaos] ‘It is a fair question now to ask a physicist, "Why are all snowflakes different?" Ice crystals form in the turbulent air with a famous blending of symmetry and chance, the special beauty of six-fold indeterminacy. As water freezes, crystals send out tips; the tips grow, their boundaries become unstable, and new tips shoot out from the sides. Snowflakes obey mathematical laws of surprising subtlety, and it was impossible to predict precisely how fast a tip would grow, how narrow it would be or how often it would branch. Generations of scientists sketched and cataloged the variegated patterns: plates and columns, crystals and polycrystals, needles and dendrites. The treatises treated crystal formation as a classification matter, for lack of a better approach.’ 309 ‘One difficulty ws in deciding which of the many physical forces involved are important and which can safely be ignored. Most important, as scientists have long known, is the diffusion of the heat released when water freezes. [gives up heat/energy] But the physics of heat diffusion cannot completely explain the patterns researchers observe when they look at snowflakes under microscopes or grow them in the laboratory.’ He then relates to Chaos as an explanation. The bottom line is that entropy can not explain life, yet all matter is subject to entropy. We are neither matter or energy. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What kind of double talk is that? There are atoms and molecules and forces and energy. Are you telling me there is something other than this? I told you already, the evolution of molecular replicators is life. We probably already know all the physical forces involved in the ‘life-process’. Shall I name my Xerox machine now. Boy or girl? You have a self-replicating Xerox machine? Cool. The replicators are mechanisms, they do not have to have motivation since thet do not make choices. Only life can decrease entropy and increase order/acquire a less stable state. This is incorrect. Waves produce order by shuffling pebbles on the beach, snowflakes are very ordered compared with water etc. Non-living processes procude order all the time, your claim that only life can increase order is demonstrably incorrect. Why should matter replicate itself unless it is seeking a more stable state? What do you mean ‘why’? They are mechanisms. Educate yourself on what entropy is. I suggest you do the same. Inanimate processes can and do produce order in nature. That’s a rather important fact, so I hope you don’t ofrget it. Life is the cause of  the exact opposite. Life strives for order. Evolution of replicators is a pretty neat thing, isn’t it? If you are replicating something it implies you are adding order to the universe. Only things that are already alive have this characteristic. Incorrect, see above. You may want to modify your conclusions about life and the universe now that this misunderstanding has been cleared out. To believe otherwise is like disbelief in the conservation of energy. When you start with incorrect assumptions, you end up with crap. Matter does not animate matter. Well, it does. There is no force in the univere that can account for life. Not the electromagnetic force, not the strong nuclear force, not the weak nuclear force and  not gravity. Life is not a ‘force’ goddammit, it is replication. Evolution of replicators explains the development of the biosphere beautifully. Which force would you say in your estimation it is that causes this replication? Gravity? electromagnetic waves? Strong nuclear force? Weak nuclear force? Guess what. Fresh out of forces. You only get 4 till you use life. See above. Life does not violate laws of thermodynamics. Those are your words – not mine. Thats exactly what this lesson is all about —– Do I need to repeat them in the hope that it might sink in? Your conclusions are based on incorrect assumptions, sorry. Let’s see if you are capable of changing your conclusions now that the holes in your assumptions have been pointed out. Marcus

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What kind of double talk is that? There are atoms and molecules and forces and energy. Are you telling me there is something other than this? I told you already, the evolution of molecular replicators is life. We probably already know all the physical forces involved in the ‘life-process’. Shall I name my Xerox machine now. Boy or girl? You have a self-replicating Xerox machine? Cool. The replicators are mechanisms, they do not have to have motivation since thet do not make choices. Only life can decrease entropy and increase order/acquire a less stable state. This is incorrect. Waves produce order by shuffling pebbles on the beach, snowflakes are very ordered compared with water etc. Non-living processes procude order all the time, your claim that only life can increase order is demonstrably incorrect.

Waves errode shells. No 2 snowflakes are the same. Order in nature is the result of entropy. Unlike Life. Nature strives higher stability. That crystals form in snowflakes is to remove potential energy of water in the clouds and this is again entropy. That snowflakes appear as patterns is no more significant than a seashell that spirals. Life strives for order along with self-preservation and reproduction. Snowflakes and shells strive for nothing. Why should matter replicate itself unless it is seeking a more stable state? What do you mean ‘why’? They are mechanisms. Educate yourself on what entropy is. I suggest you do the same. Inanimate processes can and do produce order in nature. That’s a rather important fact, so I hope you don’t ofrget it.

Brain dead people have to learn the hard way. Life is the cause of  the exact opposite. Life strives for order. Evolution of replicators is a pretty neat thing, isn’t it?

So is rust. If you are replicating something it implies you are adding order to the universe. Only things that are already alive have this characteristic.

Take piracetam for cross-hemisphere brain communication improvement. Matter can not animate matter. Maybe you will actually contribute something to a NG post someday too. Mike Dubbeld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Incorrect, see above. You may want to modify your conclusions about life and the universe now that this misunderstanding has been cleared out. To believe otherwise is like disbelief in the conservation of energy. When you start with incorrect assumptions, you end up with crap. Matter does not animate matter. Well, it does. There is no force in the univere that can account for life. Not the electromagnetic force, not the strong nuclear force, not the weak nuclear force and  not gravity. Life is not a ‘force’ goddammit, it is replication. Evolution of replicators explains the development of the biosphere beautifully. Which force would you say in your estimation it is that causes this replication? Gravity? electromagnetic waves? Strong nuclear force? Weak nuclear force? Guess what. Fresh out of forces. You only get 4 till you use life. See above. Life does not violate laws of thermodynamics. Those are your words – not mine. Thats exactly what this lesson is all about —– Do I need to repeat them in the hope that it might sink in? Your conclusions are based on incorrect assumptions, sorry. Let’s see if you are capable of changing your conclusions now that the holes in your assumptions have been pointed out. Marcus

Response:

Grin, that junction where it cross’s over itself the present slightly seperate objects moving in 4D or measured as time/motion hence rated. temporary einstien jd is jd and got this from the vedas. Illusion as the present is created from two things the past & future both not as knowen but illusions find them only momentary fragments these only existing in the present created from two illusions once it’s past and future crossing over themselfs…. 1 hort one vert crossing intelligence required simple……1234 Now ive put it mystical the floor with no ceiling the ceiling with no floor again something that has to make use of this principle as thats lasted over 4500 years must be it…….j Samo samo……. <snip Height/Length/Width are the same dimensions yet only one creates the second then verrt/hort come into play so 1&2 switch position in the switch as crossing over themselfs at center is depth or the 4th 1&2+1&2 cross over themselfs at center is depth or the new 4th……actually the first point or 1D .

Response:

Greetings, Ive wrote this before and i kinda doubt the human mind is able to register or think this deeply in the vast majority of people. I dont know why but i never see feedback exclaiming oh i get it so once again. Actually i am the only one that ever writes anything i write nobody else usually has ever written it modern. If i take two objects both unique strike them the perfect only unique sound they can create is already held in potential before they strike……then from pre-existing in potential it errupts the only way it can. PREDICTABLE orderly etc hence music whatever just a tiny aspect of whats here so i am trying again to see if anyone is able to go umpteen levels deeper with this as as usual no one can go very far or deep into ordinary things as this which they have expeienced zazillions of times trillions of zazillions yet overlook it. The final bell in

Response:

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** J.D. Campbell, It’s not correct to underestimate other people’s intelligence. Have you ever considered the possibility that people might not take interest replying to your post just because it might be unfounded or simply uninteresting? For example: about the example you posted. If you strike two objects they make a sound according to a number of factors. You have the unique atomic composition of the objects, the strengh of the strike, the point of impact, the density of the environment, etc. etc. So it proves nothing, neither materially nor spiritually. You just could have used a better example (or explanation). Regarding your previous post (which i quote at the end): Sounds like you made 4 dimensions out of 3. But even so, this is only space. You have also time. And the other universal laws and forces. You talk about colors. Actually, black is not the sum of color, but the absence of color. The sum of colors from the spectrum is white. And remember you also have infrared, ultraviolet, and others. The other things you write about have similar errors. I recommend you study before posting about any of these things, then people might take you seriously. Forgive me for being this honest, but it was you who asked for feedback. Best regards, Kriya Yogi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, Ive wrote this before and i kinda doubt the human mind is able to register or think this deeply in the vast majority of people. I dont know why but i never see feedback exclaiming oh i get it so once again. Actually i am the only one that ever writes anything i write nobody else usually has ever written it modern. If i take two objects both unique strike them the perfect only unique sound they can create is already held in potential before they strike……then from pre-existing in potential it errupts the only way it can. PREDICTABLE orderly etc hence music whatever just a tiny aspect of whats here so i am trying again to see if anyone is able to go umpteen levels deeper with this as as usual no one can go very far or deep into ordinary things as this which they have expeienced zazillions of times trillions of zazillions yet overlook it. The final bell in

<beginning of quote i believe kriya yogi is able to think still not so believing hence for his benefit i give up this thought. the first thing in physical manisfestion of actually anything are dimensional attributes and only 4 are required (h/w/l/depth). Without correctly accounting for these the next set of physical items atoms are unaccountable. now heres were you need to forget your masters your keepers and realize something. If atoms are light made solid they come from the particles colors are composed of red blue etc. So by laying these out the colors the particles in rows the next thoughts are how they snap into Black White Red Orange Blue Yellow Green Violet etc Black would be all colors combined to obtain a color black must be removed from. White would be certain colors that black was removed from and these would lay out to build atoms. Now brown is a product not found till later a potential as not in white nor black yet found exclusively in the physical world. There are only so many natural primary shapes from these rows of light made solid as atoms…….it is only possible that these exist as one of the primary shapes and combinations of……. Sound creates motion/heat which gives the by product form/light which then manifestated creates atoms as to the laws of dimensions and forms…..Height/Length/Width are the same dimensions yet only one creates the second then verrt/hort come into play so 1&2 switch position in the switch as crossing over themselfs at center is depth or the 4th 1&2+1&2 cross over themselfs at center is depth or the new 4th……actually the first point or 1D . So the subatomic particles inside atoms are accounted for as the finite particles of light and the different colors the different JD returns them too before 1900 ce…..potentials or how everything comes from something before itself…..jd <end of quote  *** Usenet.com – The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***                       http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download – 19 Seperate Servers – 90,000 groups – Uncensored

Response:

Greetings, i believe kriya yogi is able to think still not so believing hence for his benefit i give up this thought. the first thing in physical manisfestion of actually anything are dimensional attributes and only 4 are required (h/w/l/depth). Without correctly accounting for these the next set of physical items atoms are unaccountable. now heres were you need to forget your masters your keepers and realize something. If atoms are light made solid they come from the particles colors are composed of red blue etc. So by laying these out the colors the particles in rows the next thoughts are how they snap into Black White Red Orange Blue Yellow Green Violet etc Black would be all colors combined to obtain a color black must be removed from. White would be certain colors that black was removed from and these would lay out to build atoms. Now brown is a product not found till later a potential as not in white nor black yet found exclusively in the physical world. There are only so many natural primary shapes from these rows of light made solid as atoms…….it is only possible that these exist as one of the primary shapes and combinations of……. Sound creates motion/heat which gives the by product form/light which then manifestated creates atoms as to the laws of dimensions and forms…..Height/Length/Width are the same dimensions yet only one creates the second then verrt/hort come into play so 1&2 switch position in the switch as crossing over themselfs at center is depth or the 4th 1&2+1&2 cross over themselfs at center is depth or the new 4th……actually the first point or 1D . So the subatomic particles inside atoms are accounted for as the finite particles of light and the different colors the different JD returns them too before 1900 ce…..potentials or how everything comes from something before itself…..jd

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do it then. Which force is it that defines life electromagnetic? strong? weak? gravitational? None of them. Life is based on the evolution of replicators What kind of double talk is that? There are atoms and molecules and forces and energy. Are you telling me there is something other than this? I told you already, the evolution of molecular replicators is life. We probably already know all the physical forces involved in the ‘life-process’.

Shall I name my Xerox machine now. Boy or girl? Rust is not a replicator. Why can’t we make replicators by sticking atoms together? Why can’t we copy a cell and make it work? Atoms and molecules and the 4 forces do not do this/do not have motivation/strive for nothing. The replicators are mechanisms, they do not have to have motivation since thet do not make choices.

Such is the case when iron combines with oxygen to release energy and acquire a more stable state/release energy. Much like a rock rolling down a hill releasing its stored energy. If your replicator is replicating something without releasing energy, it had to have had life to start with. Only life can decrease entropy and increase order/acquire a less stable state. My only requirement for life is having life to start with so you are simply rattling. Why should matter replicate itself unless it is seeking a more stable state? What do you mean ‘why’? They are mechanisms.

Educate yourself on what entropy is. An age old question when Aristotle invented science he required 4 questions to be answered to understand something. 1.) What is the things formal cause – how did it assume this form. 2.) What happened to make this happen – its efficient cause. The only remaining cause science today sees fit to answer. 3.) What is its material cause? What is it made of. 4.) What is its final cause? What purpose does it serve? This last question is called a teleological cause and was retained as a valid question until the Enlightenment in the West. It was applied to ‘What is the purpose of the universe?’ – a question that was a question for the Church before the Enlightenment. Naturally the Church came up with God answers for the purpose of the universe. Today modern science does not retain the question at all/does not see fit to answer this final cause of the universe question/this teleological question. However, the nearest answer science can provide to answer this question is entropy. Entropy means disorder or randomness. The fate of the universe per science is maximum entropy or disorder. The ‘heat death’ of the universe where all things in the universe are at equal potential energy with all the stars having exhausted their fuel and all black holes evaporated from Hawking "hair". All things in the universe seek to acquire a more stable state. When a piece of paper is set on fire, the chemical energy in the paper is released and carbon is formed – a more stable product/moloecular structure than paper. Stones falling down mountains, errosion of rain on mountains, nuclear fusion of suns – everything in the universe tends toward this single objective. It is the only universally accepted position in science on the fate of the universe. Life is the cause of  the exact opposite. Life strives for order. Life adds energy to things. That is the single most distinct difference in science between what is alive an not alive. If you are replicating something it implies you are adding order to the universe. Only things that are already alive have this characteristic. To believe otherwise is like disbelief in the conservation of energy. Matter does not animate matter. There is no force in the univere that can account for life. Not the electromagnetic force, not the strong nuclear force, not the weak nuclear force and  not gravity. Therefore, if you are able to animate matter by any other means, it means you are enlisting what science calls today for lack of any better defininition LIFE. You can piss in your pants and call it hockey also but thats your problem. Which force would you say in your estimation it is that causes this replication? Gravity? electromagnetic waves? Strong nuclear force? Weak nuclear force? Guess what. Fresh out of forces. You only get 4 till you use life. But when any life process is involved the reverse is true. Life represents order and less entropy. The universe strives for more entropy/greater stability. Why would nature reverse course and attempt less entropic states. Answer it wouldn’t and can not. You have fundamentally misunderstood entropy and thermodynamics. The life-process increases entropy,

No, entropy means greater disorder. A more stable state. even though it can decrease entropy locally. Life does not violate laws of thermodynamics.

Those are your words – not mine. Thats exactly what this lesson is all about —–  en.tro.py    (en,trf pZ)  n.1. Thermodynama.  (on a macroscopic scale) a function of thermodynamic variables, as temperature, pressure, or composition, that is a measure of the energy that is not available for work during a thermodynamic process. A closed system evolves toward a state of maximum entropy. b.  (in statistical mechanics) a measure of the randomness of the microscopic constituents of a thermodynamic system Symbol:.  S.  2.  (in data transmission and information theory) a measure of the loss of information in a transmitted signal or message. 3.  (in cosmology) a hypothetical tendency for the universe to attain a state of maximum homogeneity in which all matter is at a uniform temperature  (heat death). 4. a doctrine of inevitable social decline and degeneration. [< G Entropie (1865) ; see EN-2, -TROPY]- en.tro.pic  (en tr

Question:

IN a democracy, the voters eventually vote themselves all the money. In this Case, Feminist have voted all the money to them. That is why the founders didn’t implement a democracy in the U.S.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is a Riddle: K…in three sentences, tie this in with divorce.

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It is a Riddle: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – K…in three sentences, tie this in with divorce.

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Riddle: ——- 102 people, sitting on an island. They make a democratic government and want to use a money system. 2 people open up banks, and are given the authority to extend loans to all individuals, do the accounting, and lend the government extra funds beyond tax income. – If they set any interest rate on the loans, how can all loans be repaid ? – If they use any collateral for the loans, what will they come to own for   which they have not worked ? – If they can print money AND draw interest, is the accounting work they do   in relation to the wealth they will create in proffits ? – If the government bails them out of very large bad loans with taxes, to   keep the money-system from collapsing, what check do they have on their   behaviour ? Wouldn’t this island ultimately come under some kind of the control of the two bankers, especially if the bankers go out and buy the large and popular media outlets, or if they control them by means of loans ? This island is, however, our Earth. Nations have vast sums of money to be paying off into the private banks who perchase large amounts of "government bonds" ("i owe you + interest" certificates), thus lending the government money through this means. Tax-revenues must ultimately be directed towards banks’ to pay off the loans and the interest-proffits. Is the proffit gained on a 1 billion dollar loan at 10% interest, in relation to the book keeping needed to write down the loan and the payments on it every month ? Can you solve the riddle ? One solution would be, and has always been claimed to be: .tnemnrevog citarcomed eht fo sdnah eht ni rewop noitaerc yenom eht tuP

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Question:

That’s deep man! I sprinkle salt on you…Slug.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – signoff sometimes. I wish I were more like those of you, out there… ..who just don’t know it’s coming. you know. the long-maligned and just-as-criticized blind-man-walking-off-a-plank routine… complete w/ custom-fitted concrete shoes and deep-sea drowning goggles you bought expressly for this type of unanticipated happy ending. (exactly.) w/ the splintered remnants of a family in hand, foreclosures and burnt-up bridges that litter your landscape like blue-skinned Bolsheviks deep-frozen on the Russian front. debts higher than a altar-boy smoking Humboldt. a shitty lawyer on the phone where once spoke a certified accountant. the self-dissatisfied wife whose once-potent affairs don’t even make ya jealous much less notice so why should she even fucking bother? and those kids — apparently yours — dumber than dirt who — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s deep man! I sprinkle salt on you…Slug. signoff sometimes. I wish I were more like those of you, out there… ..who just don’t know it’s coming. you know. the long-maligned and just-as-criticized blind-man-walking-off-a-plank routine… complete w/ custom-fitted concrete shoes and deep-sea drowning goggles you bought expressly for this type of unanticipated happy ending. (exactly.) w/ the splintered remnants of a family in hand, foreclosures and burnt-up bridges that litter your landscape like blue-skinned Bolsheviks deep-frozen on the Russian front. debts higher than a altar-boy smoking Humboldt. a shitty lawyer on the phone where once spoke a certified accountant. the self-dissatisfied wife whose once-potent affairs don’t even make ya jealous much less notice so why should she even fucking bother? and those kids — apparently yours — dumber than dirt who — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com —

Gee, it’s too bad this rambling stopped so suddenly – he/she/it was on a roll! All we need is somebody on a bongo drum, and a bunchof other beatniks smoking weed in the background…

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The turd will be resurrected soon, I bet.  He’s able to mask his identity(for now), but not who/what he is.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s deep man! I sprinkle salt on you…Slug. signoff sometimes. I wish I were more like those of you, out there… ..who just don’t know it’s coming. you know. the long-maligned and just-as-criticized blind-man-walking-off-a-plank routine… complete w/ custom-fitted concrete shoes and deep-sea drowning goggles you bought expressly for this type of unanticipated happy ending. (exactly.) w/ the splintered remnants of a family in hand, foreclosures and burnt-up bridges that litter your landscape like blue-skinned Bolsheviks deep-frozen on the Russian front. debts higher than a altar-boy smoking Humboldt. a shitty lawyer on the phone where once spoke a certified accountant. the self-dissatisfied wife whose once-potent affairs don’t even make ya jealous much less notice so why should she even fucking bother? and those kids — apparently yours — dumber than dirt who — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com — Gee, it’s too bad this rambling stopped so suddenly – he/she/it was on a roll! All we need is somebody on a bongo drum, and a bunchof other beatniks smoking weed in the background…

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    Why don’t you just go and get the help you need from a psychiatrist? You could have had some friends here.  Maybe now you’ll learn that you "Reap what you Sow" -=RiPpEr=-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – signoff sometimes. I wish I were more like those of you, out there… ..who just don’t know it’s coming. snip snip — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com —

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wow….interesting topic. I am moved. so moved I went to get some battery acid from my garage to pour onto you, Xg. Maybe it will extinguish you permanently

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s deep man! I sprinkle salt on you…Slug. signoff sometimes. I wish I were more like those of you, out there… ..who just don’t know it’s coming. you know. the long-maligned and just-as-criticized blind-man-walking-off-a-plank routine… complete w/ custom-fitted concrete shoes and deep-sea drowning goggles you bought expressly for this type of unanticipated happy ending. (exactly.) w/ the splintered remnants of a family in hand, foreclosures and burnt-up bridges that litter your landscape like blue-skinned Bolsheviks deep-frozen on the Russian front. debts higher than a altar-boy smoking Humboldt. a shitty lawyer on the phone where once spoke a certified accountant. the self-dissatisfied wife whose once-potent affairs don’t even make ya jealous much less notice so why should she even fucking bother? and those kids — apparently yours — dumber than dirt who — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com —

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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well, Shim Juba has been hiding……maybe Xg us Shim Juba

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Why don’t you just go and get the help you need from a psychiatrist? You could have had some friends here.  Maybe now you’ll learn that you "Reap what you Sow" -=RiPpEr=- signoff sometimes. I wish I were more like those of you, out there… ..who just don’t know it’s coming. snip snip — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com —

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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signoff sometimes. I wish I were more like those of you, out there… ..who just don’t know it’s coming. you know. the long-maligned and just-as-criticized blind-man-walking-off-a-plank routine… complete w/ custom-fitted concrete shoes and deep-sea drowning goggles you bought expressly for this type of unanticipated happy ending. (exactly.) w/ the splintered remnants of a family in hand, foreclosures and burnt-up bridges that litter your landscape like blue-skinned Bolsheviks deep-frozen on the Russian front. debts higher than a altar-boy smoking Humboldt. a shitty lawyer on the phone where once spoke a certified accountant. the self-dissatisfied wife whose once-potent affairs don’t even make ya jealous much less notice so why should she even fucking bother? and those kids — apparently yours — dumber than dirt who — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com —

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Question:

Does anyone have experience with integrating an existing AccountMate package with an eCommerce web site? I’m looking for information related to the VAM Internet Order Application from a real-live customer, not a sales person. What other storefront solutions will integrate with AccountMate back-end accounting and inventory packages? Thanks for the help.

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Not real familiar with AccountMate, but I know it is the number 2 FoxPro accounting program in size.  Since it uses DBF’s it is very easy to merge with anything. Does the VAM client happen to be Walgreens?  Have been looking at the e-business with them for a client of mine and seems to be a bit more complex then normal. Bill Couture

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Thanks for the response. What is DBF? The client is not Walgreens, just a small manufacturing company.

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A DBF is an xbase data table.  AccountMate use Visual FoxPro as it’s database. A Visual FoxPro database will have a DBF and possibly an FPT, and CDX portions.  The max size is 2 gigs.  With proper indexing they are probably faster then Oracle in a small system. Bill Couture

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Question:

I need a program that can compute loans on a pay anyday type scenerio. We will have about 200 accounts receivable clients paying different rates and on different days. Would be nice to print out a list of delinquents by 30/60/90 past due. Thanks

Response:

Would be willing to work with you on this.  I’ve been doing financial software for about 18 years. Bill Couture

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Try the following: http://www.compu-share.com/LoanWatch/ I know these guys personally and they have fantastic products, including the best general purpose mid-large business accounting software. Their loanwatch product tries to encompass all note and mortgage needs and they are very receptive to suggestions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need a program that can compute loans on a pay anyday type scenerio. We will have about 200 accounts receivable clients paying different rates and on different days. Would be nice to print out a list of delinquents by 30/60/90 past due. Thanks

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Question:

The Debit is to the departing Partners capital.  The interesting part is the difference between the check amount and the capital account balance which is usually present, also the tax compliance including the final 1065 and business sale forms.  This is really an item to seek a local professional. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, Could use some advice re the following…. If one partner buys out another for $10,000, what’s the journal entry for recording that cheque, written from the Company bank account proprietorship. Thanks Judy

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If the purchase is made WITH a company check; then the company paid off the exiting partner. There is just the credit to cash and the debit to partners equity to remove the partner. That leaves the Other partner as sole proprietor and sole equity holder. Normally the exiting partner wants his share of the assets of the company and the check is for more than his equity. Then you have a "Sale" this is just redeeming his investment(not taxable). SueE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Debit is to the departing Partners capital.  The interesting part is the difference between the check amount and the capital account balance which is usually present, also the tax compliance including the final 1065 and business sale forms.  This is really an item to seek a local professional. Hi Everyone, Could use some advice re the following…. If one partner buys out another for $10,000, what’s the journal entry for recording that cheque, written from the Company bank account proprietorship. Thanks Judy

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Hi Everyone, Could use some advice re the following…. If one partner buys out another for $10,000, what’s the journal entry for recording that cheque, written from the Company bank account proprietorship. Thanks Judy

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Apples and accounting. You have *3* entities. Partner 1, Partner 2 and the partnership. What took place is the Partnership advanced the purchaser, Partner 1, $10,000 for the seller’s, Partner 2’s percentage of  owners equity. Owner’s equity should consist of at least 2 accounts, a capital account for the owners equity and an account to record drawings for the year. The debit should go to that drawing account. The distribution statement for the period would show the reduction of capital and the amalgamation from partnership to sole proprietorship.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, Could use some advice re the following…. If one partner buys out another for $10,000, what’s the journal entry for recording that cheque, written from the Company bank account a sole proprietorship. Thanks Judy

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If one partner buys out another for $10,000, what’s the journal entry for recording that cheque, written from the Company bank account proprietorship.

First, Partner 1 took a draw of $10,000: Partner 1 draw $10,000 debit; cash $10,000 credit. Second, Partner 1 pays Partner 2 $10,000 for Partner 2’s ownership interest (outside the company). The entry to record this within the company is: Debit Partner 2 capital for its balance, credit Partner 1 capital for the same amount. At this point Partner 2’s capital account is zero, and the company is a sole proprietorship. I won’t discuss tax implications, since it appears from the way you write "cheque" you are not operating in the US. Tom –Solving your tax and business problems with Professional Service…Personal Attention Web: http://members.aol.com/thealycpa/Index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one partner buys out another for $10,000, what’s the journal entry for recording that cheque, written from the Company bank account proprietorship. First, Partner 1 took a draw of $10,000: Partner 1 draw $10,000 debit; cash $10,000 credit. Second, Partner 1 pays Partner 2 $10,000 for Partner 2’s ownership interest (outside the company). The entry to record this within the company is: Debit Partner 2 capital for its balance, credit Partner 1 capital for the same amount. At this point Partner 2’s capital account is zero, and the company is a sole proprietorship. I won’t discuss tax implications, since it appears from the way you write "cheque" you are not operating in the US. Tom

Seems to me the partnership books should be closed in entirety and a new set of sole proprietor books should be opened. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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Hi Judy Just went through that myself. Although the company COULD buy out the partner, my attorney told me not to do it that way.  My type of partnership cannot be a sole-proprietorship, ergo I must have another partner, even at 0%. In any case, what is happening is Parner A is buying out Partner B, or the partnership buys out Partner B and Partner A buys his share(s) from the Partnership.  In the end, as far as the partnership itself is concerned, the transactions balance is 0.00. Mine was quite hairy because the resigning partner wanted physical assets as well as projected income over a 3 year period.  In essence, I personally as Partner A had to buy the assets and income from the company in order to purchase Partner B’s share(s) of the company.  In practice, the company transferred the assets to the resigning partner and my equity position was first increased by his equity position, then my equity position was decreased by the sold assets of the company. I then had to name a new partner who has 0% interest in the company or close the company, because I must have a partner to maintain my partnership status. I may not have worded it very well, but the end result is, Partner A buys out Partner B’s position in the company.  It need not appear on the books of the company other than transferring of equity position from Partner B to Partner A. TTUL Gary

Response:

Hi John, Thanks for the quick reply.  The thing that threw me was that the equity account is almost nil (over the years, they’ve drawn out most of it).   The $10,000 is a figure the partners came up with themselves. So, in effect, since the equity account is almost nil, the remaining partner now owes the company that $10,000.   Correct?   Is there any tax liability on that money for the remaining partner? Thanks again for your help in making the picture clear for me. Judy

Response:

Proprietorships and partnerships do not have tax liability.  The tax consequences flow through to the owners. Yes there may be a tax liability. The funds could be deemed to be a draw (income for A) If not and the proprietorship has a loan that sourced the "loan" to A then he has received a taxable benefit. He must get advise on the tax consequences. "now owes the company that $10,000.   Correct?" Yes! No! Maybe. If equity is void, what liability offsets the $10,000 cash. A nil equity capital would indeed indicate that earnings have been paid out to owners. But what accounts for cash and other assets. Shareholder loans (yes I know call it Insider loans) Bank loans.  ??? The "company" is he but for accounting purposes they are individual entities. I normally have working accounts to record the sources and use of funds for a proprietorship, partnership or company that relate to insiders. ie Assets Funds paid to Partner A (this can be a liability contra account) Funds paid to Partner B (this can be a liability contra account) These accounts would not be used for wages or expense payments. Wages and expenses would have there own accounts. Liabilities Expenses partner A Expenses partner B Funds from Partner A Funds from Partner B At period end these accounts are adjusted in the distribution statement for the period.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi John, Thanks for the quick reply.  The thing that threw me was that the equity account is almost nil (over the years, they’ve drawn out most of it).   The $10,000 is a figure the partners came up with themselves. So, in effect, since the equity account is almost nil, the remaining partner now owes the company that $10,000.   Correct?   Is there any tax liability on that money for the remaining partner? Thanks again for your help in making the picture clear for me. Judy

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Question:

        Panther ( yes she does have a sick sense of humor……and wouldn’t change it in the world!!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ways to Annoy Your Public Bathroom Stall-Mate   1.      Stick your open palm under the stall wall and ask your neighbor,   "may I borrow a highlighter?"   2.      Say, "uh oh, I knew I shouldn’t have put my lips on that."   3.      Cheer and clap loudly every time somebody breaks the silence   with a bodily function noise.   4.      Say, "Damn, this water’s cold."   5.      Drop a marble and say, "Oh no! My glass eye!"   6.      Say, "Hmmm, I’ve never seen that color before."   7.      Grunt and strain real loud for 30 seconds and then drop a   cantelope into the toilet bowl from a height of six feet. Sigh relaxingly.   8.      Say, "Now how did that get in there."   9.      Say, "Humus.  Reminds me of humus."   10.     Fill up a large flask with Mountain Dew. Squirt it erratically   under the stall walls of your neighbor’s while yelling, "Whoa!  Easy boy!"   12.     Using a small squeeze tube, spread peanut butter on a wad of   toilet paper and drop the wad under the stall of your neighbor.  Then   say, "Whoops, could you kick that back over here please?"   13.     Say, "C’mon Mr. Happy! Don’t fall asleep on me now."   14.     Fill a balloon with cream corn. Rush into the stall with your   hand over your mouth and let out a lengthy vomit impression while you   squeeze the balloon and splatter cream corn all about. Apologize   profusely and blame it on the fettucine alfredo you had for breakfast.   15.     Say, "Boy, that sure looks like a maggott."   16.     Say, "Damn, I knew that drain hole was a little too small.  Now   what am I gonna do?"   17.     Play a well known drum cadence over and over again on your butt   cheeks.   18.     Before you un-roll toilet paper, conspicuously lay down your   "Cross-Dressers Anonymous" newsletter on the floor visible to the   adjacent stall.   19.     Lower a small mirror underneath the stall wall, adjust it so you   can see your neighbor and say, "Peek-a-boo!"   20.     Drop a D-cup bra on the floor under the stall wall and sing   "Born Free."

– C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

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        Panther – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ove, Lust, or Marriage?   How do you know if you’re in love, in lust, or really married? For those   of you who have any questions, or misplaced envy, this should clear it up:   LOVE – When your eyes meet across a crowded room.   LUST – When your tongues meet across a crowded room.   MARRIAGE – When you lose your child in crowded room.   LOVE – When intercourse is called "making love."   LUST – When intercourse is called "screwing."   MARRIAGE – What the hell are you talking about?   LOVE – When you share everything you own.   LUST – When you steal everything they own.   MARRIAGE – When the bank owns everything.   LOVE – When it doesn’t matter if you don’t climax.   LUST – When the relationship is over if you don’t climax.   MARRIAGE – What’s a climax?   LOVE – When you write poems about your partner.   LUST – When all you write is your phone number.   MARRIAGE – When all you write is cheques.   LOVE – When you show concern for your partner’s feelings.   LUST – When you couldn’t give a &*%$   MARRIAGE -When your only concern is what’s on TV.   LOVE – When your farewell is "I love you, darling…"   LUST – When your farewell is "So, same time next week…"   MARRIAGE – When your farewell is a relief.   LOVE – When you are proud to be seen in public with your partner.   LUST – When you only see each other naked.   MARRIAGE – When you never see each other awake.   LOVE – When your heart flutters every time you see them.   LUST – When your groin twitches every time you see them.   MARRIAGE – When your wallet empties every time you see them.   LOVE – When nobody else matters.   LUST – When nobody else knows.   MARRIAGE – When everybody else matters and you don’t care who knows.   LOVE – When all the songs on the radio describe exactly how you feel.   LUST – When the song on the radio determines how you do it.   MARRIAGE – When you listen to talk radio.   LOVE – When breaking up is something you try not to think about.   LUST – When staying together is something you try not to think about.   MARRIAGE – When just getting through today is your only thought.   LOVE – When you’re only interested in doing things with your partner.   LUST – When you’re only interested in doing things TO your partner.   MARRIAGE – When you’re only interested in your golf score.

– C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

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Oh oh oh!!  I SEE A NEW TAGLINE COMING!!! -Julie Some mornings, it’s just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

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Women Vs. Men  Why are men given larger brains than dogs?  So they don’t hump women’s legs at cocktail parties.

When did they stop? Brenda —             z         z   |  z   _,,,–,,   /,`.-’`’   ._  -;;,_  |,4-  ) )_   .;.(  `’-’ ‘—”(_/._)-’(__)  "Love makes you real"   — The Velvetine Rabbit — http://www.GeoCities.com/SoHo/Nook/7680

Response:

Women Vs. Men  Why are men given larger brains than dogs?  So they don’t hump women’s legs at cocktail parties. When did they stop? Brenda

        Panther —             z         z   |  z   _,,,–,,   /,`.-’`’   ._  -;;,_  |,4-  ) )_   .;.(  `’-’ ‘—”(_/._)-’(__)  "Love makes you real"   — The Velvetine Rabbit — http://www.GeoCities.com/SoHo/Nook/7680

– Life is the childhood of our immortality.                      –Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Response:

When did they stop?

LOL! Liz http://www.geocities.com/wellesley/7368 "I will go where my own nature leads me;  It vexes me to be guided by another’s"

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OOps….that first one is fun things to do at a funeral…and the second was Seuss books…

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okay why do ob docs spank newborn babies? to knock the penises off the smart ones <ducking and running like hell! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Women Vs. Men   Why are men given larger brains than dogs?   So they don’t hump women’s legs at cocktail parties. (no offense to our guys here  *g*)

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Panther – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – okay why do ob docs spank newborn babies? to knock the penises off the smart ones <ducking and running like hell! Women Vs. Men   Why are men given larger brains than dogs?   So they don’t hump women’s legs at cocktail parties. (no offense to our guys here  *g*)

– C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

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WHY?!

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Why do OB docs spank newborns? To knock the penises off the smart ones, of course ; – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WHY?!

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Why do OB docs spank newborns? To knock the penises off the smart ones, of course ; WHY?!

–         LOL C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

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v<

Oh god…lol…I bet that went over big with some of our members….*ggg*

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Why do OB docs spank newborns? To knock the penises off the smart ones, of course ;

Response:

*giggle* i’m sure i’ve seen that one before, but thanks for the laugh anyhow.

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why do men name their penis? coz they don’t want 90% of their decisions to be made by a complete stranger. (i’d apologize to all the men here, but i’m too busy giggling)

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why do men name their penis? coz they don’t want 90% of their decisions to be made by a complete stranger. (i’d apologize to all the men here, but i’m too busy giggling)

–         Better watch it or averti may never talk to you again!         Panther Life is the childhood of our immortality.                      –Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Ways to Annoy Your Public Bathroom Stall-Mate   1.      Stick your open palm under the stall wall and ask your neighbor,   "may I borrow a highlighter?"   2.      Say, "uh oh, I knew I shouldn’t have put my lips on that."   3.      Cheer and clap loudly every time somebody breaks the silence   with a bodily function noise.   4.      Say, "Damn, this water’s cold."   5.      Drop a marble and say, "Oh no! My glass eye!"   6.      Say, "Hmmm, I’ve never seen that color before."   7.      Grunt and strain real loud for 30 seconds and then drop a   cantelope into the toilet bowl from a height of six feet. Sigh relaxingly.   8.      Say, "Now how did that get in there."   9.      Say, "Humus.  Reminds me of humus."   10.     Fill up a large flask with Mountain Dew. Squirt it erratically   under the stall walls of your neighbor’s while yelling, "Whoa!  Easy boy!"   12.     Using a small squeeze tube, spread peanut butter on a wad of   toilet paper and drop the wad under the stall of your neighbor.  Then   say, "Whoops, could you kick that back over here please?"   13.     Say, "C’mon Mr. Happy! Don’t fall asleep on me now."   14.     Fill a balloon with cream corn. Rush into the stall with your   hand over your mouth and let out a lengthy vomit impression while you   squeeze the balloon and splatter cream corn all about. Apologize   profusely and blame it on the fettucine alfredo you had for breakfast.   15.     Say, "Boy, that sure looks like a maggott."   16.     Say, "Damn, I knew that drain hole was a little too small.  Now   what am I gonna do?"   17.     Play a well known drum cadence over and over again on your butt   cheeks.   18.     Before you un-roll toilet paper, conspicuously lay down your   "Cross-Dressers Anonymous" newsletter on the floor visible to the   adjacent stall.   19.     Lower a small mirror underneath the stall wall, adjust it so you   can see your neighbor and say, "Peek-a-boo!"   20.     Drop a D-cup bra on the floor under the stall wall and sing   "Born Free."

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Women Vs. Men   Why are men given larger brains than dogs?   So they don’t hump women’s legs at cocktail parties. (no offense to our guys here  *g*)

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ove, Lust, or Marriage?   How do you know if you’re in love, in lust, or really married? For those   of you who have any questions, or misplaced envy, this should clear it up:   LOVE – When your eyes meet across a crowded room.   LUST – When your tongues meet across a crowded room.   MARRIAGE – When you lose your child in crowded room.   LOVE – When intercourse is called "making love."   LUST – When intercourse is called "screwing."   MARRIAGE – What the hell are you talking about?   LOVE – When you share everything you own.   LUST – When you steal everything they own.   MARRIAGE – When the bank owns everything.   LOVE – When it doesn’t matter if you don’t climax.   LUST – When the relationship is over if you don’t climax.   MARRIAGE – What’s a climax?   LOVE – When you write poems about your partner.   LUST – When all you write is your phone number.   MARRIAGE – When all you write is cheques.   LOVE – When you show concern for your partner’s feelings.   LUST – When you couldn’t give a &*%$   MARRIAGE -When your only concern is what’s on TV.   LOVE – When your farewell is "I love you, darling…"   LUST – When your farewell is "So, same time next week…"   MARRIAGE – When your farewell is a relief.   LOVE – When you are proud to be seen in public with your partner.   LUST – When you only see each other naked.   MARRIAGE – When you never see each other awake.   LOVE – When your heart flutters every time you see them.   LUST – When your groin twitches every time you see them.   MARRIAGE – When your wallet empties every time you see them.   LOVE – When nobody else matters.   LUST – When nobody else knows.   MARRIAGE – When everybody else matters and you don’t care who knows.   LOVE – When all the songs on the radio describe exactly how you feel.   LUST – When the song on the radio determines how you do it.   MARRIAGE – When you listen to talk radio.   LOVE – When breaking up is something you try not to think about.   LUST – When staying together is something you try not to think about.   MARRIAGE – When just getting through today is your only thought.   LOVE – When you’re only interested in doing things with your partner.   LUST – When you’re only interested in doing things TO your partner.   MARRIAGE – When you’re only interested in your golf score.

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1.I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers.

Question:

A friend of mine have just open a small computer store and planned to use QuickBooks Pro 5.0 software for accounting.  He had received $15,000 worth of computers components from a wholesaler as a 30 day goods on consignment…some of which has been sold.   How would he enter this transaction in QuickBooks?

Response:

A friend of mine have just open a small computer store and planned to use QuickBooks Pro 5.0 software for accounting.  He had received $15,000 worth of computers components from a wholesaler as a 30 day goods on consignment…some of which has been sold. How would he enter this transaction in QuickBooks?

I don’t know anything about Quickbooks, but what you have to remember in any books is that consignment goods don’t go into your friend’s books until he has bought them, whih will normally be when he has sold some. As far as your friend’s books go, the bought items will go into his inventory and be credited to his supplier, athough the goods sold to the store’s customers will be promptly transferred to cost of sales. Memorandum reords of unsold goods which belong to the wholesaler should be kept, although it might be better to open a separate, abbreviated set of books which reflect the wholesaler’s interest in the consigned goods. That would enable the store to use Q’s inventory function to keep track of goods on consignment.

Response:

A friend of mine have just open a small computer store and planned to use QuickBooks Pro 5.0 software for accounting.  He had received $15,000 worth of computers components from a wholesaler as a 30 day goods on consignment…some of which has been sold. How would he enter this transaction in QuickBooks?

You do not enter anyting into Quick Books until something is sold.  When you have a sale you issue an invoice to the customer, and post a bill for the vendor.  Hopefully the amount that your customer paid, or is supposed to pay if you collect, will be larger than the amount you now owe the vendor for HIS merchandise which you have just sold. gud luck Mike

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Question:

Political spam? Altho there are many things "wrong" with the way timber sales are managed by the Forest Service, a bill to end all logging stands as much chance of passing as I do of winning IMC ‘98. Back to triathlon… Mike "TriBop" Tennent

Mike and others, Well, there is at least a slim thred of connection between logging and IMC. As I am sure you are aware, the forest industry in B.C., where IMC has it’s home in Penticton, is very big. So big that the provicial economy tends to go up and down as the forest industry does, particularly in smaller communities such as Penticton. Also, while it may not seem apparent when doing IMC, there are clear-cut logging operations higher up in the hills beyond site of the roads in the Oknagan and Similkameen valleys. Steve Fleck

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John A. Keslick, Jr. Paoli-West Chester, PA Allegheny Defense Project – Sierra Club – Heartwood September 25, 1997   The good news is there is now a "Bill" that was made public on September 8th, 1997 by Representative Ms. McKinney, of Georgia.  This Bill known as the "National Forest Protection & Restoration Act (NFPRA)" will do more to protect, preserve and restore our Federal Public Lands than any other single Bill at this time.   With respect and regards to "OUR" Federal Public Lands,  we consider a "forest"  a highly ordered arrangement of living organisms living in, on and around (dead, dying & living) trees in such an highly ordered fashion it assures high quality survival for all.   The bad news, the gloom and doom, is that our once fertile forest has become the victim of cooperate greed and the general apathy and misadventure on the part of the US FOREST SERVICE under the auspices of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.   What was once a living vibrant cohesive system has become a land of devastation.  Due to the use of poisonous herbicides and pesticides, in the interest of  timber extracts,  the forest has only one future and that is death,  with no regeneration.  This annihilation  cost the American tax payers hundreds of millions of dollars annually.  The new bill will  save tax-payers hundreds of millions of dollarsannually by ending the fiscally irresponsible federal timber sales program. (The Government Accounting Office has reported that the timber sales program on National Forests loses hundreds of millions of dollars each year.) Preserve America’s national forest heritage, protecting and restoring the ecological values of our federal public forests by ending the federal government’s timber sale program on National Forests*, National Wildlife Refuges, and Bureau of Land Management lands.  Immediately protects all roadless areas from logging by canceling existing timber sales in those areas.  Immediately prohibits all new timber sales, cancels Salvage Rider sales, and phases out all existing timber sales within 2 years. Redirects logging subsidies to provide funds for worker retraining; and gives preference to displaced timber workers for jobs in the woods doing ecological restoration. Redirects logging subsidies, providing funding to replace 25% revenue sharing payments to states for counties and local governments. Redirects logging subsidies to provide funding for environmentally sensitive non-wood alternative paper and construction materials.  Begins a scientifically-based ecological restoration program for federal public forests. We need this BIG CHANGE and we need it NOW!   A copy of the Bill is on our web site at: http://www.pond.com/~treeman/nfpra/ I beg of your support in ending this madness of destruction, dysfunction, depletion and deforestation "NOW".  Please call you representative in DC and state I want congressperson _______ to be an "ORIGINAL" Co Sponsor of the National Forest Protection and Restoration Act (NFPRA).  The toll free number to the Washington, DC Switchboard is 1-888-723-5246.  Any questions * According to Forest Service figures, timber cut from Federal public lands comprises less than five percent of the annual timber consumption of the United States. Yours Truly John A. Keslick, Jr. John A. Keslick Jr. Sierra Club-The Allegheny Defense Project-Heartwood — John A. Keslick Jr.—Tree Anatomist & Tree Biologist.-             End Commercial Logging on Federal Lands Organic Tree Treatment Web Site: http://www.pond.com/~treeman

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Question:

Ask Amnesty International about this.

You mean "the travesty international". Get a life or a cup of Turkish coffee. I also see in *YOUR* subject line, that you try to make Curds to Turks. Is that your way of providing rights to ethnic minorities?

I venture to guess that, for years, you have nurtured an obsession as to who is a Turk. One may have been born from a non-Turkish, non-Muslim parent outside the Turkish land, yet still can be a Turk, provided this person calls himself or herself a Turk. Because the designation of a Turk is not a genetic feature, not a racial or religious feature. It is a matter of identifying with the Turkish values. In Turkiye, there is a unity of ideals, goals and interests. This is what makes a society a nation. Are you for real? Septioglu and Zana are at the helm of the Parliament today proves that this system is functioning properly. For whom?

Ask Septioglu and Zana. white-hating black extremists [or Klu Klux Klan or Nazi Armenians, Why don't you loose a word on the turkish Genozid on the Armenians in the twenties of this century? You see, I've heard about 'The Turkish

Well, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with. You should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel that you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but a fact. I will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, lie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan to 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is nothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in x-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, that employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel free to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists, the Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian criminal organizations. Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men, women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up. Between 1914 and 1920, 2.5 million Turks perished of butchery at the hands of the Armenians. The genocide involved not only the killing of innocents but their forcible deportation from the Russian Armenia. They were persecuted, banished, and slaughtered while much of Ottoman Army was engaged in World War I. The Genocide Treaty defines genocide as acting with a 'specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.' History shows that the Armenian dictatorship intended to eradicate the Muslim population. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were exterminated by the Armenians. International diplomats in Ottoman Empire at the time - including Admiral Bristol - denounced the Armenian dictatorship's policy as a massacre of the Kurds, Turks, and Tartars. The blood-thirsty leaders of the Armenian dictatorship at the time personally involved in the extermination of the Muslims. The Turkish genocide museums in Turkiye honor those who died during the Turkish massacres perpetrated by the Armenians. The eyewitness accounts and the historical documents established, beyond any doubt, that the massacres against the Muslim people during the war were planned and premeditated. The aim of the policy was clearly the extermination of all Turks in Armenian dictatorship territories. The Muslims of Van, Bitlis, Mus, Erzurum and Erzincan districts and their wives and children have been taken to the mountains and killed. The massacres in Trabzon, Tercan, Yozgat and Adana were organized and perpetrated by the blood-thirsty leaders of the Dashnaks and Hunchaks. The principal organizers of the slaughter of innocent Muslims were Dro, Antranik, Armen Garo, Hamarosp, Daro Pastirmadjian, Keri, Karakin, Haig Pajise-liantz and Silikian. Source: Bristol Papers, General Correspondence: Container #32 - Bristol to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920. "I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in  the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Turkish) villages that are utterly  defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder  the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village." Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). (Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5  million Muslim people) p. 133 (first paragraph) "In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who  had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians  abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of  these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the  brutality displayed, but could not make any effective protest. Some,  mercifully, were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method  employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after  crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw." "Foreword:" "For example, we were camped one night in a half-ruined Tartar mosque, the most  habitable building of a destroyed village, near the border of Persia and  Russian Armenia. During the course of evening I asked Ohanus if he could tell  me anything of the history of the village and the cause of its destruction.  In his matter of fact way he replied, Yes, I assisted in its sack and  destruction, and witnessed the slaying of those whose bones you saw to-day  scattered among its ruins." p. 20 (second paragraph). "Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the Tartar  section of the village. There were no lights in the houses and the doors  were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to happen and were in great  fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but got no response; whereupon they  smashed in the doors and began a carnage that continued until the last  Tartar was slain. Throughout the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror,  unable to shut my ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and  the loud shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished." p. 203 (second paragraph). "One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among the  ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about  it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.  The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed  sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils and  other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies of the  dead." p. 204 (first paragraph). "I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of  a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make  my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy  that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of  a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a  Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her  throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a  year old." p. 19 (first paragraph) "The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of  ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same fate  befell the Tartar section of Khankandi." p. 99 (third paragraph) "The Dashnacks took advantage of this situation and extended their  revolutionary activities into the Russian province. They instituted  a campaign of terrorism and employed threats and force in securing  contributions to the party funds from rich Armenians. A wealthy  man would be assessed a stipulated sum. Refusal to pay brought upon  him a sentence of death.  Every member of the party was pledged to carry out orders without  question. If a man were to be assassinated, lots might be drawn to  select an executioner or the job might be assigned to one of the  'mauserists' of the party." Source: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13. "The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the  area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population  of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were  Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.  Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third  of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the  Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan  uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians  as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,  however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the  guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000  inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character  notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian  Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the  southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia."  (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of  Transcaucasia). In 1920, '0' percent Turk. "We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as  ways of escape for the Tartars and then

... read more »

Response:

[stuff deleted] indiscriminately. The main victims of the PKK’s attacks are fellow Kurds in southeastern Turkiye, who have been assimilated into the Turkish population, have the democratic rights of all Turkish citizens and are represented in Turkiye’s parliament and government (the current foreign minister, Hikmet Cetin, is an ethnic Kurd.) To what do you refer? I do not know, what `democratic rights` one exactly has in Turkiye, but it is better not to use such a tiny little thing as argument. The Kurds, for instance do celebrate new year in February/March (I don’t know better). This year was the first << after several, where it has been forbidden, where they (the Kurds) got the official

[et cetera] The Christian rushes in the Jew’s shop and takes off his sword : "I will kill you Jew!" The jew asks "but why ?". The Christian with a red face shouts "cause you Jews killed our Jesus !"   "But this happened two thousand years ago…" "Doesn’t matter" the Christian replies, "I learned this an hour ago!" Kutluk

Response:

indiscriminately. The main victims of the PKK’s attacks are fellow Kurds in southeastern Turkiye, who have been assimilated into the Turkish population, have the democratic rights of all Turkish citizens and are represented in Turkiye’s parliament and government (the current foreign minister, Hikmet Cetin, is an ethnic Kurd.) To what do you refer? I do not know, what `democratic rights` one exactly has in Turkiye, but it is better not to use such a tiny little thing as argument.

No wonder you have trouble putting forward any worthwhile arguments. The main legal principles of the Turkish State are summarized in Article 2 of the Constitution:         "The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social State         governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public         peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights;         loyal to the nationalism of Ataturk, and based on the fundamental         tenets set forth in the Preamble of the Constitution." Freedom of culture and religion prevailed during the Ottoman Empire, allowing the many nations and races within its boundaries to remain autonomous. The fact that the Ottoman Empire was the longest lived in recent history may be attributed to these freedoms, despite the lack of any written Constitution. The first attempts to create a written Constitution occurred in 1839 and 1856. Although the documents adopted during these two attempts remained in force only temporarily, they provided the basic elements of a Constitution. The 1876 Constitution was the first legal document to force a Parliament and the right of election to share the sovereignty of the Emperor. The Constitution of 1906 placed some additional limitations on the Emperor, while increasing the power of the Parliament and the government. The First World War (1914-1918) brought the Ottoman Empire to an end. By the occupation of Istanbul, the Parliament was dissolved and the Constitution was abolished. The members of Parliament were sent to exile to an island by the occupying forces. During the Independence War, the "Turkish Grand National Assembly" held their first meeting on April 23, 1920 to serve as the legislative body of the new Turkish state. This assembly prepared the new legal structure of the Turkish Republic. The new Republic was proclaimed on October 29, 1923 and the new Constitution was adopted in 1924. That Constitution served as the legal backbone of today’s modern Turkish Republic. In 1945, Turkey adopted a multi-party political system. The Constitution of 1924 was replaced by others in 1961 and 1982. All three Constitutions of the Republic have been based on the principles of parliamentary democracy, human rights, national sovereignty, division of powers, private ownership and secularization. "Major Principles of the Constitution" The constitution (with 177 Articles) establishes the structure of the Republic within the following principles: – The Turkish Republic is a democratic, secular and social state governed by   law; – It should be governed to maintain public peace, national solidarity, justice,   human rights and the objectives of Ataturk; – The language of the State is Turkish; – Sovereignty is vested in the nation without any conditions or restrictions.   Sovereignty is exercised by organizations authorized by the nation; – Legislative power is carried by the Parliament elected by the nation. This   power cannot be delegated (transferred) to any one else; – Executive power is exercised by the President, and Council of Ministers; – Judicial power is exercised by the independent courts on behalf of the   Turkish nation; – All individuals are equal, irrespective of language, race, religion, color,   sex, or political beliefs; – Laws cannot be contradict those principles stated in the Constitution. "Structure of the State" In accordance with the Constitution, the structure of the state is based on the principle of "division of power" to create a balanced and self-controlled system. The power is divided into "legislative power," "executive power," and "judicial power," balanced to secure freedoms and powers to control each other (self-control).  A. Legislative Power:  The "Turkish Grand National Assembly" is a parliament with one House, elected  by the nation for a term of five years to exercise legislative power on  behalf of the nation. The basic functions of this Assembly are:  - to adopt, to amend, or to repeal laws;  - to approve or to dismiss the Council of Ministers;  - to supervise and to question Ministers or the Council of Ministers;  - to debate, to amend and to approve annual budgets;  - to ratify international agreements;  - to grant amnesty or pardons.  Members of Parliament do not have any liability for their words (either oral  or written) during the course of their legislative duties. The country is  divided into constituencies. The number of representatives of each is  calculated according to its population. Every Turkish citizen over the age  of twenty-one can vote.  Elections are supervised by the "Supreme Council of Elections," which solves  all disputes or appeals. In each province, the local "Board of Election"  runs and controls the election under the supervision and guidelines of the  Supreme Council. Members of the Council and Boards are elected among  independent judges.  B. Executive Power:  The President of the Republic is the Head of State (not the head of government  as in the Unites States). The main functions of the President are:  - to represent the State and the Country;  - to insure the implementation of the Constitution;  - to coordinate legislative, judicial and executive functions;  - act as the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces;  - to ratify laws and government decrees.  The President is elected by the Grand National Assembly for a period of seven  years. The President may ratify or return the laws for a second debate, may  call for a referendum.  Executive power is exercised by the "Council of Ministers," headed by the  Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is appointed by the President from the  members of Parliament. The Prime Minister names the Ministers for approval  by the President. The new Government (Council of Ministers) reads their  program at the Parliament and the vote of confidence follows. There are 21 (?)  Ministers in the Council.  Ministers and other members of the administration can be sued in independent  "administrative" courts for their misuse of power, administrative errors or  functions against any law.  C. Judicial Power:  Judicial power is exercised by independent courts. No authority or power can  instruct the judges or public prosecutors of the courts. These cannot be  discharged, replaced or retired by executive authorities except for the  reasons clearly stated by the appropriate laws. There are three categories  of courts in the Turkish judiciary system:  - Courts of justice deal with legal, commercial and criminal cases. The    decisions of these courts may be reviewed by the supreme court of justice    upon the appeal of the parties involved.  - The decisions or functions of the executive power (including the Prime    Minister and Ministers or any governmental department) can be appealed in    administrative courts if these functions or decisions are against the law.    The decisions of these administrative courts may also be reviewed by the    high administrative court.  The laws and decisions of the Grand National Assembly can be examined by the  "Constitutional Court" if they contradict the Constitution. If found  contradictory, this court may cancel the decisions or laws of the Parliament. The Kurds, for instance do celebrate new year in February/March (I don’t know better). This year was the first << after several, where it has been forbidden, where they (the Kurds) got the official allowence to celebrated it. Nevertheless the turk army ‘controlled` this event, in some towns they just shot into the Kurds without any reasons. There were some foreign TV teams there, which proved that. So

That is the result of residing in moderated newsgroups. "Belgium Rejects First and Only Kurdish Refugee" Washington DC, May 2 – …Belgium refused the political asylum request of an Iraqi Kurd who arrived by plane in Brussels in mid April. Hikmet Aydin wanted to take refugee in Belgium at the airport as a Kurd escaping from Iraq. But Aydin was put on an airplane and sent back to Turkiye… The observers said that the event perfectly reflected the hypocritical humanism of the European nations who are hot on human-rights rhetoric but very stingy when it comes to opening their own borders to the Kurdish refugees. ……. Have you noticed that prominent European nations and some international organizations who advocate the so-called Kurdish rights at every opportunity do not lift a finger when it comes to sending money for these desperate people and opening their own borders so that Kurds can migrate and settle down in the West? The record shows that when Turkiye accepted 100,000 Iraqi Kurds in 1988 the Western countries accepted only 418 of them. Did you know that about 60,000 evacuees of various nationals from Kuwait and Iraq took refugee in Turkiye on their way home during the Gulf crisis? The recently published U.S. General Accounting Office Report shows that Turkish Red Crescent alone spent over $615,000 out of its own funds to take care of these unannounced guests. Number of displaced Iraqi citizens on Turkish soil reached 300,000. These are mainly Kurds, Turcomans and Christians. This number is expected to reach a million in the weeks ahead. Turkish relief agencies, including the Turkish Red Crescent, are working around the clock to provide food, shelter and medical care. Turkiye did the same again in 1988 when 100,000 Iraqi citizens of … read more »

Response:

[stuff deleted] indiscriminately. The main victims of the PKK’s attacks are fellow Kurds in southeastern Turkiye, who have been assimilated into the Turkish population, have the democratic rights of all Turkish citizens and are represented in Turkiye’s parliament and government (the current foreign minister, Hikmet Cetin, is an ethnic Kurd.)

To what do you refer? I do not know, what `democratic rights` one exactly has in Turkiye, but it is better not to use such a tiny little thing as argument. The Kurds, for instance do celebrate new year in February/March (I don’t know better). This year was the first << after several, where it has been forbidden, where they (the Kurds) got the official allowence to celebrated it. Nevertheless the turk army ‘controlled` this event, in some towns they just shot into the Kurds without any reasons. There were some foreign TV teams there, which proved that. So much to the democratic rights, or shall I proceed with bombing of Kurdish towns by the turk air force, by letting Saddam bomb turkish Kurds, etc. Can’t you see a bit difference between a democratic state and a totalitarian state?

I really can see it! The people of Turkiye want every citizen of the Turkish Republic to enjoy the benefits provided to them by the Constitution.

Ask Amnesty International about this. I also see in *YOUR* subject line, that you try to make Curds to Turks. Is that your way of providing rights to ethnic minorities? Septioglu and Zana are at the helm of the Parliament today proves that this system is functioning properly.

For whom? Turkiye’s territorial integrity is not negotiable. There are separatists in Corsica and in the Pyrenees, but the territorial integrity of France or Spain is not negotiable.

If you refer to territoral integrity, just look over the fence, … .  Anyone who does not want to live in the Republic of Turkiye is free to emigrate, but …

Yeah, and if you are not with us, you are against us. Leave or be broken! Havn’t I heard this before, … ? white-hating black extremists [or Klu Klux Klan or Nazi Armenians,

Why don't you loose a word on the turkish Genozid on the Armenians in the twenties of this century? You see, I've heard about 'The Turkish Independence War'. Yet Germany, which mobilized all its resources for the PKK, does not yet even acknowledge the existence of Turks in Iraq.

But they (the Germans) messed up the receiver address. Instead of the PKK, the Turk army got all ex-GDR weapons! Very strange, indeed ...

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There is not one guerrilla in the city of Sirnak. This is merely an excuse to kill Kurdish civilians. An inhabitant of Sirnak

Is this the joke of the week? KGB/PKK engaged in disgusting cowardly massacres of Turkish and Kurdish women and children. The PKK, the Marxist Kurdish Workers Party, was created by the KGB. PKK is a pawn in the hands of the neighboring countries and Germany who have sinister designs on Turkiye. The PKK is quite active in Turkiye; they raid the villages and the military camps, massacre the civilians and the soldiers indiscriminately. The main victims of the PKK's attacks are fellow Kurds in southeastern Turkiye, who have been assimilated into the Turkish population, have the democratic rights of all Turkish citizens and are represented in Turkiye's parliament and government (the current foreign minister, Hikmet Cetin, is an ethnic Kurd.) In the 1960's it became apparent to the KGB that it would not be possible to conquer the Western World by war in the nuclear age without destroying the USSR as well. So, it invented what we now call 'state terrorism' as a tool of Soviet foreign policy. That involved the services of client states such as Syria and Iraq and occasionally other states, to let the dirty work be done by others. In the 1960 and 1970's the KGB is said to have spent $1 billion specifically to destabilize Turkiye. Can't you see a bit difference between a democratic state and a totalitarian state? The people of Turkiye want every citizen of the Turkish Republic to enjoy the benefits provided to them by the Constitution. That means everyone is a first class Turkish citizen, irrespective of their ethnic background. The fact that Septioglu and Zana are at the helm of the Parliament today proves that this system is functioning properly. Turkiye's citizens of Kurdish origin, along with other citizens who are living in Turkiye's southeastern regions, have been harassed by separatists for the past seven years. The people who were already being terrorized by the KGB's puppets were also subjected to repression of all kinds and thus were trapped between the state forces and the terrorists. Turkiye's territorial integrity is not negotiable. There are separatists in Corsica and in the Pyrenees, but the territorial integrity of France or Spain is not negotiable. Anyone who does not want to live in the Republic of Turkiye is free to emigrate, but Turkiye cannot be broken up to accommodate the KGB that wants to build, of all things, a Marxist state for the Kurds. Not a chance. Right from the outset certain things must be made clear to everyone. Turkiye's territorial integrity is not negotiable. If some day the white-hating black extremists [or Klu Klux Klan or Nazi Armenians, for that matter] in this country would go far enough to want an independent purely black [or white or Nazi Armenian] state, I do not believe that the United States Government would just donate part of its territory for this ‘noble cause.’ I do not want to even imagine what the white majority [or blacks] will do to them. The pundits who love to construct some of the scenarios that give large chunks of other peoples’ lands to Kurds, would not be that generous with their own lands. Have you ever heard of ‘The Turkish Independence War?’ To put it simply and bluntly, the problem cannot be solved just by neutralizing the PKK (although that would be extremely easy for the Turkish military), but by making the population of Eastern Anatolia ‘love’ the government they elect. That is the way any democracy should work. By the way, did you know that Turks are either a majority or the second largest ethnic group in many Northern Iraq provinces? For example, there are 450,000 Turks in Musul (40% of population); 215,000 in Erbil (35%); 400,000 in Kerkuk (75%); 300,000 in Selahattin (60%); and 220,000 in Diyala Province (33%). There are a total of 2.5 million Turks in Iraq, compared to 3 million Kurds. Yet Germany, which mobilized all its resources for the PKK, does not yet even acknowledge the existence of Turks in Iraq. Let me further improve this one for you, then. Had the Sevres Treaty been implemented, the fate of the Kurds would have been far worse than under the Turkish Republic. Having concluded that the Kurds could not govern themselves within the interest of the West, the British advised long ago that a Kurdish mandate would be necessary and that ‘the Kurds would be ruled by force.’ (Foreign Office 424/106). Given that the Kurdish insurgency in Turkiye has taken tens of thousands of innocent Turkish lives over the century, one can legitimately question whether under Western colonial methods the Kurds might have been subjected to some form of apartheid. In contrast, under Turkish rule, the Kurds enjoyed economic equality and equal status as Turkish citizens united under one nation for the well-being of the Turkish Republic. Serdar Argic                      ’This war quickly developed into one of extermination.                       We closed the roads and mountain passes that might                       serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and                       then proceeded in the work of extermination.’                                                        (Ohanus Appressian)

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posted by: AF/ATS — 21 August 1992 URGENT MASSACRE BY TURKISH STATE IN CITY OF SIRNAK CONTINUES Since 18 August 1992 the Turkish military forces have been massacring Kurdish civilians non stop. As in the terrible events of Newroz, the Turkish government has claimed that the PKK had occupied the city and they were forced to intervene. This was used to legitimise the massacre they are committing. They claim the guerrillas are still in the city and therefore "the conflict between the army and guerrillas continues." There is not one guerrilla in the city of Sirnak. This is merely an excuse to kill Kurdish civilians. An inhabitant of Sirnak managed to make a telephone call to the Human Rights Association in Diyarbakir saying that the Turkish government was using helicopters and German made Panzers to bombard the city and destroy it. He also said "In the attack, which has now lasted more than 48 hours, more than half of the city has been destroyed. The house of the mayor, and the shop underneath are burning. There are large numbers of dead. The massacre is continuing. The international media has to be informed." Another inhabitant said:"Now the areas of Guzelyurt, Gazi, Imetpasa, Cumhuriyet, are all burnt and destroyed. The soldiers are pouring petrol on the shops and houses, then firing from 5 to 6 metres away and setting them on fire. Special counter insurgency teams are now taking the electrical goods from the shops and loading them on the military vehicles. A fridge which was too heavy for them was destroyed by fire from M16 machine guns. For two days there has been no water, no electricity, and no food." We call on all progressive and democratic governments and peoples to stop the massacre which is being perpetrated by the Turkish government against the Kurdish people. Kurdistan Committees in Europe 21 August 1992 LATEST NEWS FROM SIRNAK Hundreds of civilians have been killed by the Turkish troops in Sirnak. We cannot get exact numbers because of the information embargo which has been put on the city. People are forbidden to move in or out of the city centre, or leave their houses. Telephone lines have been cut. No journalists have been permitted to enter the city except for the Hurriyet (Turkish newspaper) correspondent. Villagers living near Sirnak have informed the Human Rights Association of Diyarbakir that the nearby villages of Hestan, Dehla Biye and Zorova have been bombed. The Turkish troops have refused to allow the injured to be moved to hospitals outside Sirnak, and many of them are dying for lack of treatment. The Human Rights Association is gravely concerned about the lack of water, food and electricity in the city. Their latest bulletin lists terrible scenes: 30 dead bodies of civilians dumped in the garden of the hospital 9 bodies buried by police this morning 100 houses set on fire by police officers All shops and cars destroyed by police List of identified dead and wounded to date Hezni Erkol Zehra Koval Halime Kurtel Suleyman Kurtel Mahmut Attaman – house destroyed, whole family mortally wounded Salih Balik – house destroyed, whole family wounded Salih Ozgur pinar – house destroyed The Human Rights Association is calling on all journalists and all who respect the right to life to take steps against this massacre immediately and send delegations of foreign observers to the region. The presence of foreign observers is absolutely vital as it is the only way of deterring the Turkish army from continuing their attack. PRESS STATEMENT NO GUERRILLA RAIDS ON SIRNAK – TURKISH STATE COMMITS MASSACRE On 18 August 1992 Turkish forces claimed that the PKK had raided the city of Sirnak. Sirnak was put under siege. All roads in and out of Sirnak were blocked. The true events of the next three days including their atrocities were covered up by the Turkish state. The crime which was committed in Sirnak was not only committed against Kurdish people but against all the people of the world, because Kurdish people are fighting for human dignity, human values, and to establish a republic in which these values are respected. It is our duty to tell people the truth about what happened in Sirnak. Although no guerrilla unit raided the city of Sirnak on 18 August the Turkish state used its media to tell the world that government and military buildings in Sirnak had been raided by 1000-1500 PKK guerrillas. The Turkish military used this as an excuse to attack the city with Helicopters, tanks, Panzers, APCs, and counter insurgency and commando forces. The areas where a majority of Kurdish patriots live was totally destroyed. The commandos and police shot at random at women, children, youths, elders, killing and wounding them by the hundred. Houses of Kurdish patriots were marked and inhabitants were dragged out and shot without attempt at arrest or trial. The regional governor and Minister of the Interior made a statement that the army was fired at from inside the houses in order to legitimise their massacre. We must stress that if there had been up to 1000 guerrillas in Sirnak the regional governor and Minister of the Interior would have had to think twice about flying in to Sirnak by helicopter. An eyewitness reported:"The areas of Guzelyurt, Gazi, Imetpasa, Cumhuriyet, have been destroyed. The soldiers are pouring petrol on the houses, then firing form 5 to 6 metres away and setting them on fire. Special counter insurgency teams are now taking the electrical goods from the shops and loading them on the military vehicles. For two days there has been no water, no electricity, and no food." WHY MASSACRE THE PEOPLE? WHY IN SIRNAK? The Kurdish people have reached the stage where they are able to govern themselves. With their leadership and guerrilla army they will be able to live freely and independently, and to establish their unity as a people. They are in the process to establish a National Assembly and national army, and this means an end to the Turkish state in Kurdistan. The massacres were committed by the Turkish state to prevent this historical step. They have tried the same trick twice in Sirnak, now and during Newroz. It will never work. It can’t stop the struggle of the Kurdish people for freedom and independence. There was a bloodbath in Sirnak. The press and independent observers are still being prevented from seeing the inhabitants and the damage done to the city. Houses are still full of the corpses of innocent civilians and the streets are full of dead animals. Seventy per cent of the city has been destroyed. The damage to the city runs into millions of pounds. People have been left homeless and in dire poverty. We repeat the call made by the people of Sirnak to the international governments and media to send independent observers to the area to investigate. ERNK EUROPEAN REPRESENTATIVE —                           "Solidarity is a Weapon!" —

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