Question:

> Its the sound of Freedom on the March. Its a wonderful sound. > Get money for college too doing that kind of thing as well. > Damo

Get your ass blown up by a suicide bomber too.  For what?  So my neighbor can have cheap gas for his Caddilac Escalade

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Now there will be nobody to protect Buffalo, NY when the rioting, burning and looting starts. They accounting gimmicked the National Guard into Iraq to avoid the political hot-potato of reinstating the draft. Well, Bush got what he wanted. He wants our country to destroy itself; and when nobody is protecting the fort, the criminals will play.

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I bet that if we didn’t dis-band their army we coulda had someone in charge who would be accoutable to us AND the oil would be on the market by now. They wouldn’t accomadate al Quaida I bet after we gave em the ole shock and awe game, heh? Its possible that, justlike Aphganstan, the populace is simply ucontrollable with out draconian measures. Maybe…who knows. MSNBC had some interesting articals about how the streets are basically filled with mayhem and many folks miss the discipline the Taliban provided. Anyway…no easy answer. We gotta keep up the same game until their coming election. The first election wasn’t really an election it more of an election for a constitution and an election. In the end the Shites, who flood across Iraqi borders fro Iran for every holy day and pilgrimage will just team up with the 60 percent shites in the south. Hezzbollah is Shites and funded by Iran and sheltered by Syria. So….. I think we’re in a bad neighborhood. I hope the plan we have in place works because we apparetly are stuck with it. At least until the next election. No easy answers in this. Its real scary Damodara http://community.webtv.net/damodara/MystoryasIseeit

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And practically the entire fed gov. is dominated by the Republican party through the process of elections, so all you can say is that whatever happens, they got what they voted for.  I guess that’s the way the system is suppose to work, when you think about it. <damod…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:24671-423C1BDE-17@storefull-3233.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now……. > The Marine corps missed their recuitment quota last month, I think it > was, for the first time in ten years. > Now on the News last night the National Guard was way way way below on > new enlistments. > If Bush wanted to go to war he woldn’t have joined up with the National > Guard. > Back in the years of Viet Nam joiing the guard was considered almost a > joke. There was something like a fifteen year waiting lst. Kids in grade > school were signed up for the guard. > Of course Bush’s Dad was the head of the CIA so……..no problem > getting Geoge safely put away for the duration. > The reserves and the National Guard are not being used in the manner for > which they were created. They said that n the news too. > It is so reassuring to know that the size of the military does not have > to increased and that there will be no Draft, as Bush assures us. > Guy on TV said that you join the National Guard, you go to Iraq. Simple > as that. > Yes I am thankful so many young boys and their mothers are willing to > fight it out over there and bring freedom to the oppressed like that. > Its the sound of Freedom on the March. Its a wonderful sound. > Get money for college too doing that kind of thing as well. > Damo > http://community.webtv.net/damodara/MystoryasIseeit

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MSNBC says between one half and one third of our forces in Iraq are reserves or National guard. We’ll sit it out until their next election and then switch our mission or policy I guess. Face facts, this stuff is going to last years and years. Maybe I can understand the reserve forces being called up but not the guard. Suppose we invade Iran or Syria what will happen then? When he said he wasn’t going to enlarge the army because we had enough it reminded me of his Dad professing "No new Taxes". If we have enough troops why are we using the Reserves and the National Guard? God bless our troops and I hope we get to bring em home, or change their Iraq mission, after the next election. I shouldn’t introduce such topics here, its really "off topic", heh?

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Now……. The Marine corps missed their recuitment quota last month, I think it was, for the first time in ten years. Now on the News last night the National Guard was way way way below on new enlistments. If Bush wanted to go to war he woldn’t have joined up with the National Guard. Back in the years of Viet Nam joiing the guard was considered almost a joke. There was something like a fifteen year waiting lst. Kids in grade school were signed up for the guard. Of course Bush’s Dad was the head of the CIA so……..no problem getting Geoge safely put away for the duration. The reserves and the National Guard are not being used in the manner for which they were created. They said that n the news too. It is so reassuring to know that the size of the military does not have to increased and that there will be no Draft, as Bush assures us. Guy on TV said that you join the National Guard, you go to Iraq. Simple as that. Yes I am thankful so many young boys and their mothers are willing to fight it out over there and bring freedom to the oppressed like that. Its the sound of Freedom on the March. Its a wonderful sound. Get money for college too doing that kind of thing as well. Damo http://community.webtv.net/damodara/MystoryasIseeit

Response:

Question:

So much the sweetness and softness of air. Breathe lightly upon me I cannot speak. Your soul is a summer wind Sprinkled with petals and feathers Blowing through forests and meadows Blowing through caverns and rapids Blowing through mountains and deserts Carrying sunlight Carrying pollen Carrying raindrops And carrying love into hearts. Breathe lightly my love I can only feel you Wafting across me Rubbing against me Flying around me Enfolding, carressing my heart. Bring me the world Sweet breeze Bring me world by the molecule Bring me the top of the atmosphere Bring me the bloom of the rainforest Bring me the salt of the ocean The girl and the boy making love under glancing moon. Play, play with my flames Sweet breeze Send sparks flying Let my fulminations become A tapestry shining and tearing And reaching for you Carry me through the mind of humanity Carry me to the soul of eternity Carry me all around the globe And together we’ll drape it in love. http://www.geocities.com/ilya_shambat http://www.geocities.com/drr0cket

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much the sweetness and softness of air. Breathe lightly upon me I cannot speak. Your soul is a summer wind Sprinkled with petals and feathers Blowing through forests and meadows Blowing through caverns and rapids Blowing through mountains and deserts Carrying sunlight Carrying pollen Carrying raindrops And carrying love into hearts. Breathe lightly my love I can only feel you Wafting across me Rubbing against me Flying around me Enfolding, carressing my heart. Bring me the world Sweet breeze Bring me world by the molecule Bring me the top of the atmosphere Bring me the bloom of the rainforest Bring me the salt of the ocean The girl and the boy making love under glancing moon. Play, play with my flames Sweet breeze Send sparks flying Let my fulminations become A tapestry shining and tearing And reaching for you Carry me through the mind of humanity Carry me to the soul of eternity Carry me all around the globe And together we’ll drape it in love. http://www.geocities.com/ilya_shambat http://www.geocities.com/drr0cket

I’m sick of mangos, i’d rather eeat flies, they’re more fun to catch, as they get in your fries. Long curly fingers, two broken wings, these are a few of my favourite things.

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good is a noise inside your head.

A noisy head may feel good to you but personally I prefer  - – - – - – - – - Ayn Marx

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good is a noise inside your head. A noisy head may feel good to you but personally I

prefer  - – - – - – - – - Ayn Marx

lol you know that’s not what i meant

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: So much the sweetness and softness of air. : Breathe lightly upon me I cannot speak. : Your soul is a summer wind : Sprinkled with petals and feathers : Blowing through forests and meadows : Blowing through caverns and rapids : Blowing through mountains and deserts : Carrying sunlight : Carrying pollen : Carrying raindrops : And carrying love into hearts. : Breathe lightly my love : I can only feel you : Wafting across me : Rubbing against me : Flying around me : Enfolding, carressing my heart. : Bring me the world : Sweet breeze : Bring me world by the molecule : Bring me the top of the atmosphere : Bring me the bloom of the rainforest : Bring me the salt of the ocean : The girl and the boy making love under glancing moon. : Play, play with my flames : Sweet breeze : Send sparks flying : Let my fulminations become : A tapestry shining and tearing : And reaching for you : Carry me through the mind of humanity : Carry me to the soul of eternity : Carry me all around the globe : And together we’ll drape it in love. Alex: Thanx for your beautiful poetry. Keep it coming. — Waiting for you to return.

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: So much the sweetness and softness of air. : Breathe lightly upon me I cannot speak. : Your soul is a summer wind : Sprinkled with petals and feathers : Blowing through forests and meadows : Blowing through caverns and rapids : Blowing through mountains and deserts : Carrying sunlight : Carrying pollen : Carrying raindrops : And carrying love into hearts. : Breathe lightly my love : I can only feel you : Wafting across me : Rubbing against me : Flying around me : Enfolding, carressing my heart. : Bring me the world : Sweet breeze : Bring me world by the molecule : Bring me the top of the atmosphere : Bring me the bloom of the rainforest : Bring me the salt of the ocean : The girl and the boy making love under glancing moon. : Play, play with my flames : Sweet breeze : Send sparks flying : Let my fulminations become : A tapestry shining and tearing : And reaching for you : Carry me through the mind of humanity : Carry me to the soul of eternity : Carry me all around the globe : And together we’ll drape it in love. : : http://www.geocities.com/ilya_shambat : http://www.geocities.com/drr0cket : I’m sick of mangos, : i’d rather eeat flies, : they’re more fun to catch, : as they get in your fries. : Long curly fingers, : two broken wings, : these are a few of : my favourite things. Alex: There’s no accounting for taste… — Waiting for you to return.

Response:

: " The good are not quarrelsome : The quarrelsome are not good " :     -Tao te Ching, Ch. 81 : Define good please. Alex: The opposite of the intentions behind this request, perhaps? — Waiting for you to return.

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: : " The good are not quarrelsome : The quarrelsome are not good " :     -Tao te Ching, Ch. 81 : : Define good please. : : Ayn Marx : good is a noise inside your head. Alex: I can’t hear anything there!! — Waiting for you to return.

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: good is a noise inside your head. : A noisy head may feel good to you but personally I prefer  - – - – - – - – - Alex: A little bit of picking and choosing and heaven and hell are born. — Waiting for you to return.

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: : : bullshit : : I’ll be back for you :  when I finish with the stupid fucker, William Tucker. : : lol Alex: The wise man can laugh in the face of other emotions. — Waiting for you to return.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : So much the sweetness and softness of air. : Breathe lightly upon me I cannot speak. : Your soul is a summer wind : Sprinkled with petals and feathers : Blowing through forests and meadows : Blowing through caverns and rapids : Blowing through mountains and deserts : Carrying sunlight : Carrying pollen : Carrying raindrops : And carrying love into hearts. : Breathe lightly my love : I can only feel you : Wafting across me : Rubbing against me : Flying around me : Enfolding, carressing my heart. : Bring me the world : Sweet breeze : Bring me world by the molecule : Bring me the top of the atmosphere : Bring me the bloom of the rainforest : Bring me the salt of the ocean : The girl and the boy making love under glancing moon. : Play, play with my flames : Sweet breeze : Send sparks flying : Let my fulminations become : A tapestry shining and tearing : And reaching for you : Carry me through the mind of humanity : Carry me to the soul of eternity : Carry me all around the globe : And together we’ll drape it in love. Alex: Thanx for your beautiful poetry. Keep it coming. — Waiting for you to return.

Please remove alt.philosophy.taoism from the newsgroups when replying to this thread. Thanks.

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: : : So much the sweetness and softness of air. : : Breathe lightly upon me I cannot speak. : : Your soul is a summer wind : : Sprinkled with petals and feathers : : Blowing through forests and meadows : : Blowing through caverns and rapids : : Blowing through mountains and deserts : : Carrying sunlight : : Carrying pollen : : Carrying raindrops : : And carrying love into hearts. : : Breathe lightly my love : : I can only feel you : : Wafting across me : : Rubbing against me : : Flying around me : : Enfolding, carressing my heart. : : Bring me the world : : Sweet breeze : : Bring me world by the molecule : : Bring me the top of the atmosphere : : Bring me the bloom of the rainforest : : Bring me the salt of the ocean : : The girl and the boy making love under glancing moon. : : Play, play with my flames : : Sweet breeze : : Send sparks flying : : Let my fulminations become : : A tapestry shining and tearing : : And reaching for you : : Carry me through the mind of humanity : : Carry me to the soul of eternity : : Carry me all around the globe : : And together we’ll drape it in love. : : Alex: : Thanx for your beautiful poetry. : : Keep it coming. : : — : Waiting for you to return. : Please remove alt.philosophy.taoism from the newsgroups : when replying to this thread. Thanks. Alex: I never add ngs, I never trim them, so I have to politely decline your request, I am afraid. — Waiting for you to return.

Response:

" The good are not quarrelsome The quarrelsome are not good "     -Tao te Ching, Ch. 81 Define good please. Ayn Marx

good is a noise inside your head.

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bullshit I’ll be back for you  when I finish with the stupid fucker, William Tucker.

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bullshit I’ll be back for you  when I finish with the stupid fucker, William Tucker.

Tch. " The good are not quarrelsome The quarrelsome are not good "     -Tao te Ching, Ch. 81

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bullshit I’ll be back for you  when I finish with the stupid fucker, William Tucker.

lol

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" The good are not quarrelsome The quarrelsome are not good "     -Tao te Ching, Ch. 81

Define good please. Ayn Marx

Response:

Question:

Here are some revised financial definitions based upon the language of our New Economy. DEBIT: earnings before irregularities and tampering. CEO: chief embezzlement officer. CFO: corporate fraud officer. NAV: normal Anderson valuation. P/E: parole entitlement. EPS: eventual prison sentence. BULL MARKET — A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius. BEAR MARKET — A 6 to 18-month period when the kids get no allowance, the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex. MOMENTUM INVESTING — The fine art of buying high and selling low. VALUE INVESTING — The art of buying low and selling lower. P/E RATIO — The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing. BROKER — What my broker has made me. "BUY, BUY" — A flight attendant making market recommendations as you step off the plane. STANDARD & POOR — Your life in a nutshell. STOCK ANALYST — Idiot who just downgraded your stock. STOCK SPLIT — When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves. FINANCIAL PLANNER — A guy who actually remembers his wallet when he runs to the 7-11 for toilet paper and cigarettes. MARKET CORRECTION — The day after you buy stocks. CASH FLOW — The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet. YAHOO — What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share. WINDOWS 2000 — What you jump out of when you’re the sucker that bought INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR — Past year investor who’s now locked up in a nuthouse. PROFIT — Religious guy who talks to God. Be well, Larry — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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ROTFLMAO!  i love it!  this was delicious!LOL!  wanna bet —  i bet he doesn’t say it.  won’t matter, cuz you get to watch him squirm, every time somebody brings it up.LOL! kate (liking jo more and more each day) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The one thing I’ve enjoyed about the accounting mess from the last year is that if an accounting firm had to be in trouble, it was Anderson. For many years I had the misfortune to work with a CPA who had spent two years with a "Big 8" accounting firm.  This gave him such a great sense of superiority that he habitually started sentences "When I was with Arthur Anderson".  I’m really looking forward to the next time I run into him. Jo

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LOL!  love the daffynition of S & P!  thanks for posting this, larry.  great fun! kate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are some revised financial definitions based upon the language of our New Economy. DEBIT: earnings before irregularities and tampering. CEO: chief embezzlement officer. CFO: corporate fraud officer. NAV: normal Anderson valuation. P/E: parole entitlement. EPS: eventual prison sentence. BULL MARKET — A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius. BEAR MARKET — A 6 to 18-month period when the kids get no allowance, the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex. MOMENTUM INVESTING — The fine art of buying high and selling low. VALUE INVESTING — The art of buying low and selling lower. P/E RATIO — The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing. BROKER — What my broker has made me. "BUY, BUY" — A flight attendant making market recommendations as you step off the plane. STANDARD & POOR — Your life in a nutshell. STOCK ANALYST — Idiot who just downgraded your stock. STOCK SPLIT — When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves. FINANCIAL PLANNER — A guy who actually remembers his wallet when he runs to the 7-11 for toilet paper and cigarettes. MARKET CORRECTION — The day after you buy stocks. CASH FLOW — The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet. YAHOO — What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share. WINDOWS 2000 — What you jump out of when you’re the sucker that bought INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR — Past year investor who’s now locked up in a nuthouse. PROFIT — Religious guy who talks to God. Be well, Larry — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Thanks Larry.  I sent this on to my tax group.  (there are very few financial or tax jokes out there.  Funny ones anyway.) The one thing I’ve enjoyed about the accounting mess from the last year is that if an accounting firm had to be in trouble, it was Anderson. For many years I had the misfortune to work with a CPA who had spent two years with a "Big 8" accounting firm.  This gave him such a great sense of superiority that he habitually started sentences "When I was with Arthur Anderson".  I’m really looking forward to the next time I run into him. Jo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are some revised financial definitions based upon the language of our New Economy. DEBIT: earnings before irregularities and tampering. CEO: chief embezzlement officer. CFO: corporate fraud officer. NAV: normal Anderson valuation. P/E: parole entitlement. EPS: eventual prison sentence. BULL MARKET — A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius. BEAR MARKET — A 6 to 18-month period when the kids get no allowance, the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex. MOMENTUM INVESTING — The fine art of buying high and selling low. VALUE INVESTING — The art of buying low and selling lower. P/E RATIO — The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing. BROKER — What my broker has made me. "BUY, BUY" — A flight attendant making market recommendations as you step off the plane. STANDARD & POOR — Your life in a nutshell. STOCK ANALYST — Idiot who just downgraded your stock. STOCK SPLIT — When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves. FINANCIAL PLANNER — A guy who actually remembers his wallet when he runs to the 7-11 for toilet paper and cigarettes. MARKET CORRECTION — The day after you buy stocks. CASH FLOW — The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet. YAHOO — What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share. WINDOWS 2000 — What you jump out of when you’re the sucker that bought INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR — Past year investor who’s now locked up in a nuthouse. PROFIT — Religious guy who talks to God. Be well, Larry — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

Very interesting if a little long winded. Also interesting to see the lower cabin altitude of the B727 as compared to the B707. The maximum differential pressure allowed in a B707 is 8.6psi  which is a structural issue not a cabin pressure control issue. I assumed the B727 would be the same having almost identical structure above the cabin floor (as does the 737). Perhaps it has something to do with their differing operating altitudes. Regards, BB.

Response:

Courtesy of Gerry In The states Edited : Gerry XXXX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– | | | I have followed the discussion on cabin pressure with some interest. Here | are a few points that may have escaped notice. | | The method that Capt. s describes for provided conditioned air hasn’t | changed much since I was riding around in Douglas Destroyers in the early | 1960’s. Hot, high pressure air is drawn from a compressor stage of the jet | engine, some of it is cooled by one of several means, the cooled air is | mixed with enough hot air to provide a comfortable cabin temperature and the | mixture is pumped into the cabin. The cabin is a pressure vessel with a | valve, or several in some aircraft, that leaks the air out slowly enough to | provide a change of air every so often. There is some discussion here in the | US about how many exchanges of air are needed to provide a healthy | environment but I believe that an exchange every 2 to 3 minutes is | considered ideal. The cabin pressure is controlled by the valve (a | controlled leak, really) and the temperature by changing the mix of hot and | cool air. Very simple and trouble free for the most part. In the older jets | it was not unusual to smell burned oil for a few minutes but this is less of | a problem in the fan type engines in use today. It was also not unusual to | get a shower when the engines spooled up because of the sudden increase in | air flow and cooling efficiency. Modern computers seem to have fixed that. | | Drawing air from the engines increases the fuel burn and higher cabin | pressures (lower cabin altitude) use more fuel. It is enough to catch the | attention of the accountants who would like to see as little pressurization | as possible and as little air exchange as possible. Thus the debate about | how many exchanges an hour are needed for health and to keep the passngers’ | fingernails pink is really about money, not health or comfort. | | Older aircraft such as early models of the B727 had semi-automatic | pressurization systems that were controlled by the flight engineer. Later | aircraft tend to be more automatic as there are no more flight engineers. It | was not unusual on B707 type aircraft to have cabin altitudes around 9 to | 10,000 feet. The B727 was the first modern aircraft with near sea level | pressurization capabilites at altitude and in the early days most operators | kept the cabin altitude quite low until the price of fuel became an issue. | | The FAA here in the US has different cabin altitude rules for different | operators. | | Part 91 operators (individuals and companies operating their own or leased | aircraft not for hire) must provide supplemental oxygen under the following | rules: | | Pilots must use oxygen above 14,000 feet and when flight time above 12,500 | feet exceeds 30 minutes duration for the entire flight. | | Above 15,000 feet all occupants must have oxygen available. | | Note that passengers do not officially turn blue until 15,000 feet and they | are not required to use the oxygen, just have it. | | Under Part 135 (Charter operations) the following rules apply: | | Sec. 135.89  Pilot requirements: Use of oxygen. | | In general, pilots must use oxygen at cabin altitudes above 12,000 and if | the cabin exceeds 10,000 feet for 30 minutes duration for the entire flight. | There are bunch of complex rules about masks, etc. which, if followed, may | have saved Payne Stewart.and his crew. | | Passenger requirements are more complicated: | | Sec. 135.157  Oxygen equipment requirements. | | …. (b) Pressurized aircraft. No person may operate a pressurized | aircraft– | (1) At altitudes above 25,000 feet MSL, unless at least a 10-minute supply | of supplemental oxygen is available for each occupant of the aircraft, other | than the pilots, for use when a descent is necessary due to loss of cabin | pressurization; and | (2) Unless it is equipped with enough oxygen dispensers and oxygen to | comply with paragraph (a) of this section whenever the cabin pressure | altitude exceeds 10,000 feet MSL and, if the cabin pressurization fails, to | comply with Sec. 135.89 (a) or to provide a 2-hour supply for each pilot, | whichever is greater, and to supply when flying– | (i) At altitudes above 10,000 feet through 15,000 feet MSL, oxygen to at | least 10 percent of the occupants of the aircraft, other than the pilots, | for | that part of the flight at those altitudes that is of more than 30 minutes | duration; and | (ii) Above 15,000 feet MSL, oxygen to each occupant of the aircraft, other | than the pilots, for one hour unless, at all times during flight above that | altitude, the aircraft can safely descend to 15,000 feet MSL within four | minutes, in which case only a 30-minute supply is required. | | Note that in the case of paying passengers, 10 percent turn blue at 10,000 | feet and everyone turns blue at 15,000 feet. Also note that there is no | altitude ceiling for passengers and no requirement that they actually use | the oxygen. | | | Part 121 (Air carriers): | | Pilots must use oxygen above cabin altitudes of 10,000 feet. | | Here are rules for passengers on turbojet aircraft | | Part 121.329: | | …. (c) Passengers. Each certificate holder shall provide a supply of | oxygen for passengers in accordance with the following: | (1) For flights at cabin pressure altitudes above 10,000 feet, up to and | including 14,000 feet, enough oxygen for that part of the flight at those | altitudes that is of more than 30 minutes duration, for 10 percent of the | passengers. | (2) For flights at cabin pressure altitudes above 14,000 feet, up to and | including 15,000 feet, enough oxygen for that part of the flight at those | altitudes for 30 percent of the passengers. | (3) For flights at cabin pressure altitudes above 15,000 feet, enough | oxygen for each passenger carried during the entire flight at those | altitudes. | | These passengers, having paid the least of any group for their passage, only | turn blue at the rate of 10% above 10,000 feet, 30% above 14,000 feet, and | 100% at 15,000 feet. Here again, there is no requirement that the passengers | actually use the oxygen – just have it available. | | From a regulatory standpoint in the US, there is no reason that cabin | altitudes cannot be run up to 10,000 feet and held there. Above 10,000 feet | only 10% of the masks need be deployed, and so on.  :-) However, that | explains where the 10,000 foot rule came from and why it is so widely used | on US airlines as a ceiling for oxygen use. | | On the subject of different pressure and oxygen levels in the cockpit, there | are several factors to consider. First, the cabin crew does a lot more | physical labor that the cockpit crew so it is reasonable that they would | have a greater oxygen deficit. Second, the cockpit crew has supplemental | oxygen available at all times and most pilots know to use it if they feel | any effects of hypoxia and to use oxygen for night approaches and landings. | So it’s reasonable that the cabin crew may feel oxygen deprived when the | pilots do not. | | There will be no appreciable difference in cabin pressure between the | cockpit and the cabin unless there is a pressure bulkhead between the | cockpit and the passenger cabin. However, the air recirculation that Capt. | s mentioned could certainly have an effect on the cabin crew and | passengers, especially considering the cabin crews’ greater physical | exertions. | | I have flown some trips where the passengers became boisterous. Raising the | cabin a couple of thousand feet nearly always quieted them. Most pressurized | smaller planes have very simple pressurization controls and it is no problem | to run it up slowly enough that no one but another pilot will notice. I | suspect that modern airliners are less easy to manage as I am sure that | management does not want to increase the fuel bill for something as | unimportant as passenger and crew health and comfort. | | In the case cited by Dr. XXXX, increasing the cabin altitude | should have decreased the fuel burn, thus making both the child’s mother and | the UK taxpayers happy. Thus Andy should have been complimented rather than | taken to task by our colleague. | | Enough for now. | | Gerry XXXX | Old wing warper and occasional instructor in avoiding abrupt landings | Redesiminated in  a commercially prudent form . By Phil with Permission

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Question:

and it will show that GORE would have won florida, and that the new

And what will they be counting??? Those "dimpled chads"??? Those are not legal votes. Darn near anything could have been responsible for those dimples considering how much they’ve been handled. The only legal votes are those where the chad was fully removed or where there is no more than 2 corners holding the chad in place.

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If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York Dale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And what will they be counting??? Those "dimpled chads"??? Those are not legal votes. Darn near anything could have been responsible for those dimples considering how much they’ve been handled.

Response:

from rec.ponds…… I am sorry I dont know who is upset by the cross posting, but the people replying are not known to me in rec.gardens, so I have to assume that some of them are in other newsgroups and the cross posting started there. Perhaps if we put where we are from, we can eliminate the rest.   Another suggestion for those that want to complain is get into dejanews, trace the thread back to the first person that did the cross posting and complain about them.   http://www.herald.com/  and http://orlandosentinel.com/ are participating in the recount.  In fact, as you point out, there are a LOT of papers joining in .. cause those "counters" hired by the election folks in each county are getting paid $300 bucks per hour, which is enough to stop all but the wealthiest candidates from asking for a recount, I guess.  I find it quite disingenuous that they cannot find people to do the count. Excuuuuuse me, but that is not what I call chump change!! The counting is being monitored by a very prestigious accounting firms hired by the newspapers.  In all cases the votes are being very well described, for example,  in the case of punch cards all possible categories, dimples, holes, 3 corner hanging, 2 corner hanging, etc. are separated.   What I find most interesting is some of those counties with advanced voting machines  where the OVERVOTE was examined.  People who filled in the circle for a candidate often went  lower down on the ballot and wrote  in the name of that candidate, causing an over vote.  Voter intent is obvious, altho enthusiastic.  Interesting that even "high tech" methodology has not eliminated all the reasons why votes are not counted.   What I am surprised at is that contrary to popular belief that if all counties were counted Bush would pick up votes in all the counties where he won, examination of the over count in one found another 130 net votes for Gore.  In that county, there were also plenty of votes for Bush where they made that mistake of filling in the name as well as filling in the circle. It is all going to be interesting.   Ingrid The ballots, during recounts going on now, are not handled by the parties who have requested access (Judicial Watch, Miami Herald, NY Times, W Post, etc.). They are handled only by the elections folks.

Some smaller counties have been fighting access because they don’t have the personnel to sit and count again.   List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/ Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who’s to blame

Response:

and it will show that GORE would have won florida, and that the new — read and post, rosie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the Supreme Court has ordered the counts to stop, don’t they have to stop?  I am not sure why the ballots would be made available for private interest groups to manhandle.  It just doesn’t seem constitutional or accurate.  Andisn’t it in everyone’s best interest to become bipartisan and focus on the "people’s work" as Clinton called it?  If anyone cares to discuss it I’d be happy to meet you at "This Week in World Affairs" on Thursdays at 6:00 pm pst at parenthoodweb.com.  I see some interesting opinions. Traci Come Join the Fun at… http://www.parenthoodweb.com Log Directly into Chat at… http://phw2.parenthoodweb.com:4080/chat/world/html/login.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Depends on state laws.  Dimples are legal in Texas and Governor Bush signed the bill. Wrong. In Texas a dimple is not a legal vote. As I understand it, Texas law specifically says a dimple is a legal vote.  But I believe the law was in place before Bush became governor. Bush signed a law that requires the chad to be fully punched or at the very least be attached at no more than two points.

        And think of all the jammed chad channels on all those machines in all those poor districts. No wonder W got elected.         Clear intent of the voter. Here, take this ballot, and this stylus. Now, dimple that chad without pushing it out.         The dirty little secret is out. —         BBB Zipped sig file. To unzip, click here:  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York Dale I did read that article, and it only mentioned one vote from a dead person. Cases of unregistered voters seemed to be primarily people who voted in the wrong district, usually because they had moved and went back to their former district to vote.  I found it disturbing that some election workers were either inexperienced or for other reasons didn’t follow the rules. To me that simply proves that the dems just can’t get anything right, they were in charge in those locations. And it’s no wonder the workers don’t follow the rules, their leaders have led them to believe rules are made to be broken. Gary, you know that Bush lost in Florida, admit it.  Bush knows it, that’s why he fought the recounts from DAY ONE!  The recounts now being conducted will prove it, just hang around for the results, okay?

Yeahbut, you don’t get it. Bush ran out the clock, so he won! ‘The art of the game.’ —         BBB Zipped sig file. To unzip, click here:  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Depends on state laws.  Dimples are legal in Texas and Governor Bush signed the bill. Wrong. In Texas a dimple is not a legal vote. As I understand it, Texas law specifically says a dimple is a legal vote.  But I believe the law was in place before Bush became governor. Bush signed a law that requires the chad to be fully punched or at the very least be attached at no more than two points.

Well, what I’ve read contradicts that.

Response:

rec.ponds….. uhhh… they were looking at some of the very upscale high end precincts of Miami.  In one case a worker turned down a black person cause "I didnt think he lived in our area".   Doesn’t surprise me one bit. They’re so intent on "proving" Gore won that they’ll count anything that that might help them achieve their goal.

List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/ Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who’s to blame

Response:

Bush signed a law that requires the chad to be fully punched or at the very least be attached at no more than two points.

well??????? which is it? — read and post, rosie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Depends on state laws.  Dimples are legal in Texas and Governor Bush signed the bill. Wrong. In Texas a dimple is not a legal vote. As I understand it, Texas law specifically says a dimple is a legal vote.  But I believe the law was in place before Bush became governor. Bush signed a law that requires the chad to be fully punched or at the very least be attached at no more than two points.

Response:

please remove alt.support.diet.low-carb from your headers! it was my mistake! — read and post, rosie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York Dale I did read that article, and it only mentioned one vote from a dead person. Cases of unregistered voters seemed to be primarily people who voted in the wrong district, usually because they had moved and went back to their former district to vote.  I found it disturbing that some election workers were either inexperienced or for other reasons didn’t follow the rules.

Response:

says… Depends on state laws.  Dimples are legal in Texas and Governor Bush signed the bill. Wrong. In Texas a dimple is not a legal vote. As I understand it, Texas law specifically says a dimple is a legal vote.  But I believe the law was in place before Bush became governor.

Bush signed a law that requires the chad to be fully punched or at the very least be attached at no more than two points.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York Dale I did read that article, and it only mentioned one vote from a dead person. Cases of unregistered voters seemed to be primarily people who voted in the wrong district, usually because they had moved and went back to their former district to vote.  I found it disturbing that some election workers were either inexperienced or for other reasons didn’t follow the rules.

To me that simply proves that the dems just can’t get anything right, they were in charge in those locations. And it’s no wonder the workers don’t follow the rules, their leaders have led them to believe rules are made to be broken.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York Dale I did read that article, and it only mentioned one vote from a dead person. Cases of unregistered voters seemed to be primarily people who voted in the wrong district, usually because they had moved and went back to their former district to vote.  I found it disturbing that some election workers were either inexperienced or for other reasons didn’t follow the rules. To me that simply proves that the dems just can’t get anything right, they were in charge in those locations. And it’s no wonder the workers don’t follow the rules, their leaders have led them to believe rules are made to be broken.

Gary, you know that Bush lost in Florida, admit it.  Bush knows it, that’s why he fought the recounts from DAY ONE!  The recounts now being conducted will prove it, just hang around for the results, okay?

Response:

If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York Dale

I did read that article, and it only mentioned one vote from a dead person. Cases of unregistered voters seemed to be primarily people who voted in the wrong district, usually because they had moved and went back to their former district to vote.  I found it disturbing that some election workers were either inexperienced or for other reasons didn’t follow the rules.

Response:

and it will show that GORE would have won florida, and that the new And what will they be counting??? Those "dimpled chads"??? Those are not legal votes. Darn near anything could have been responsible for those dimples considering how much they’ve been handled. The only legal votes are those where the chad was fully removed or where there is no more than 2 corners holding the chad in place.

In the case of the Miami Herald, they’ve said they’ll be reporting *what* they find and leaving it to the reader to interpret the findings.  So if they do find a number of dimpled chads, you’re free to disregard those results. OTOH, the Palm Beach Post has reported that, despite Republican claims of fallen chads "littering the floor" during previous recounts, they’ve only lost 4 chads out of a few hundred ballots.

Response:

I saw the reference to unregistered and people from NY.  I dont understand how people who werent registered COULD get a ballot, and I dont feel like this is a big deal since in WI a person can bring in a gas bill, register and vote at the same time.  As long as they didnt vote twice.  I can imagine there are a lot of well to do people just retiring to Florida coming from various states that DO allow same day registration and just went in to vote like normal and they were allowed to.   Ingrid If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York

List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/ Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who’s to blame

Response:

and it will show that GORE would have won florida, and that the new And what will they be counting??? Those "dimpled chads"??? Those are not legal votes. Darn near anything could have been responsible for those dimples considering how much they’ve been handled.

Warts on fingers?  Studded gloves? The only legal votes are those where the chad was fully removed or where there is no more than 2 corners holding the chad in place.

Depends on state laws.  Dimples are legal in Texas and Governor Bush signed the bill.

Response:

The only legal votes are those where the chad was fully removed or where there is no more than 2 corners holding the chad in place.

WHICH IS IT? — read and post, rosie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and it will show that GORE would have won florida, and that the new And what will they be counting??? Those "dimpled chads"??? Those are not legal votes. Darn near anything could have been responsible for those dimples considering how much they’ve been handled. The only legal votes are those where the chad was fully removed or where there is no more than 2 corners holding the chad in place.

Response:

says… Depends on state laws.  Dimples are legal in Texas and Governor Bush signed the bill. Wrong. In Texas a dimple is not a legal vote.

As I understand it, Texas law specifically says a dimple is a legal vote.  But I believe the law was in place before Bush became governor.

Response:

says… Depends on state laws.  Dimples are legal in Texas and Governor Bush signed the bill.

Wrong. In Texas a dimple is not a legal vote.

Response:

says… If you read today’s Miami Herald you will see that Miami-Dade County counted votes from dead people, unregistered voters, and residents from New York

Doesn’t surprise me one bit. They’re so intent on "proving" Gore won that they’ll count anything that that might help them achieve their goal.

Response:

As I said earlier last week, organizations will come into Florida to complete the re-counts and finally let us know who really won Florida. Broward County will be the first to be looked at with ultimately all 67 counties to be counted.  Dumbyah will lose.  You can read in the following article.  The Associated Press, Washington Post and Miami Herald are three of the 17 petitioning organizations that will be part of the re-counts, paying $300/hour to do so.  Dumbyah will lose. http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/18/broward.ballots/ind…

Response:

Recently, "George" bellied up to the computer keyboard and typed… As I said earlier last week, organizations will come into Florida to complete the re-counts and finally let us know who really won Florida. Broward County will be the first to be looked at with ultimately all 67 counties to be counted.  Dumbyah will lose.  You can read in the following article.  The Associated Press, Washington Post and Miami Herald are three of the 17 petitioning organizations that will be part of the re-counts, paying $300/hour to do so.  Dumbyah will lose.

And what if "Dumbyah" wins…again?  My guess is that it won’t matter to you.  No matter what the votes say, Al Gore had some divine right to the presidency that George W. Bush stole from him.  Whatever… I used to think I would be glad when election day came because of all the campaign ads would go away.  Now, for some reason (probably jokers like this one), I kind of miss them… Jon W. — It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues. –Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

Response:

If the Supreme Court has ordered the counts to stop, don’t they have to stop?  I am not sure why the ballots would be made available for private interest groups to manhandle.  It just doesn’t seem constitutional or accurate.  Andisn’t it in everyone’s best interest to become bipartisan and focus on the "people’s work" as Clinton called it?  If anyone cares to discuss it I’d be happy to meet you at "This Week in World Affairs" on Thursdays at 6:00 pm pst at parenthoodweb.com.  I see some interesting opinions. Traci Come Join the Fun at… http://www.parenthoodweb.com Log Directly into Chat at… http://phw2.parenthoodweb.com:4080/chat/world/html/login.html

Response:

If the Supreme Court has ordered the counts to stop, don’t they have to stop?  I am not sure why the ballots would be made available for private interest groups to manhandle.  It just doesn’t seem constitutional or

The ballots, during recounts going on now, are not handled by the parties who have requested access (Judicial Watch, Miami Herald, NY Times, W Post, etc.). They are handled only by the elections folks.  I found it interesting that Judicial Watch was involved – they even disagreed very vehemently with a higher up Florida Republican (Florida House or Senate) over access to ballots under Florida’s sunshine laws.  Some smaller counties have been fighting access because they don’t have the personnel to sit and count again.  I find the whole idea refreshing and highly interesting.  The post-election fights in Florida stunk, with groups from both sides coming down to interefere.  Wonder what would have happened if certain powerful officials had been of the opposite persuasion – Florida Supreme Court, US Supremes, Florida SOS, Florida Governor??  It will make for some interesting reading in years to come and doubtless in many changes to election laws.  I’m willing to bet folks will pay more attention for a while, which must be good.  It made me think of all of the times that US representatives have gone to other countries to oversee elections.  Happens frequently; too bad there wasn’t somebody more "neutral" to come keep us more "impartial" ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – accurate.  Andisn’t it in everyone’s best interest to become bipartisan and focus on the "people’s work" as Clinton called it?  If anyone cares to discuss it I’d be happy to meet you at "This Week in World Affairs" on Thursdays at 6:00 pm pst at parenthoodweb.com.  I see some interesting opinions. Traci Come Join the Fun at… http://www.parenthoodweb.com Log Directly into Chat at… http://phw2.parenthoodweb.com:4080/chat/world/html/login.html

Response:

Question:

"*Because **NYC** Could Be BETTER!!" <rosaphi…@webtv.net> wrote in message news:27245-3A12DE35-24@storefull-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net… JOB ANNOUNCEMENT: HARLEM INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER, INC. JOB TITLE: EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR JOB SUMMARY: The Executive Director provides overall management of all fiscal and program operations; provides direct supervision of Administrative staff; cut! I will do it! — Visit my personal website for movies, pics (of my nurse!) , miniature jet engines, DDA act, VR6 MPV Disabled converted van, Bikes, V8 powered Ford Sierra with Nitrous!, Tuned Powerchairs and more! http://www.dynopower.freeserve.co.uk/homepages/

Response:

 JOB ANNOUNCEMENT: HARLEM INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER, INC. JOB TITLE: EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR JOB SUMMARY: The Executive Director provides overall management of all fiscal and program operations; provides direct supervision of Administrative staff; works under the supervision of the Board of Directors and implements policies established by the Board; evaluates program and service data and provides reports to the Board of Directors; conducts community education and outreach activities; conducts marketing and development activities with the assistance of the Board of Directors; provides information and referral, advocacy and public education/information services. MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Master’s degree in a field related to independent living and four year’s or related work experience, including two years in management; or Bachelor’s degree and six year’s related work experience, including two years in management. Personal experience with disability preferred. JOB CONDITIONS/APPLICATION PROCESS: Salary negotiable based on qualifications. Excellent benefits and leave time provided. Interested persons should send resume and cover letter including salary requirements to the Harlem Independent Living Center, Inc.

Question:

OK, my ex has been gone for a little over a year to NC, and has not sent anything for the kids, so he can’t claim he is supporting them…last year we files jointly, and just split the return. My question: we are not divorced yet, he is fighting it until he gets out of college and I just didn’t have the money to keep paying a lawyer until he gets out and stops fighting it….since he has been gone all of this tax year, do I have to file married filing jointly or can I file single? If anyone knows, it would be appreciated…the last thing I need is the IRS on my ass. thanx in advance!

If one spouse files married/separate, the other must file married/separate. You CAN both file married/jointly, but what’s the advantage for the higher income earner??? However, if you haven’t lived together for over six months of the year, you can file almost any way you want.  Best would be head of household if you provided over 50% of the money for the kids during the year. Better than single and technically you are NOT legally single. — Joe

Response:

If you are legally married, you are supposed to file as married.  But you can file as "Married filing Separately" instead of Jointly.  In that case, I think you’ll need to figure out how to split the child deductions, because I think only one of you can claim each child.  So if you have two children, you could each claim one, for example. I would recommend posting this question on a tax related newsgroup.  I know there are some out there that have accountants and attorneys who participate. Before you buy.

Response:

You don’t have to file jointly if you don’t want to….at least that’s what my ex did and we were not divorced either, didn’t even bother to tell me he was filing until I went to get my taxes done. Daisy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, my ex has been gone for a little over a year to NC, and has not sent anything for the kids, so he can’t claim he is supporting them…last year we files jointly, and just split the return. My question: we are not divorced yet, he is fighting it until he gets out of college and I just didn’t have the money to keep paying a lawyer until he gets out and stops fighting it….since he has been gone all of this tax year, do I have to file married filing jointly or can I file single? If anyone knows, it would be appreciated…the last thing I need is the IRS on my ass. thanx in advance!                                                             Kimmy — She’s not the kind of girl you hear about She’ll never want another She’ll never be without She’ll give you all the signs She’ll tell you everything Then turn and walk away                -Dream Theater-

Response:

OK, my ex has been gone for a little over a year to NC, and has not sent anything for the kids, so he can’t claim he is supporting them…last year we files jointly, and just split the return. My question: we are not divorced yet, he is fighting it until he gets out of college and I just didn’t have the money to keep paying a lawyer until he gets out and stops fighting it….since he has been gone all of this tax year, do I have to file married filing jointly or can I file single? If anyone knows, it would be appreciated…the last thing I need is the IRS on my ass. thanx in advance!                                                              Kimmy — She’s not the kind of girl you hear about She’ll never want another She’ll never be without She’ll give you all the signs She’ll tell you everything Then turn and walk away                 -Dream Theater-

Response:

Question:

Definitely try Insulin Infusion Specialties. They have been very accommodating with my extremely difficult insurance company. We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. -WW

Response:

Thanks, I will check with insulininfusion.com.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been ordering my pump supplies from MiniMed every three months and they seem reluctant to accept the 90% that my insurance pays as payment in full, despite the fact that I can document financial hardship.  I feel that they are gouging us and would like to find another supplier that would accept what the insurance pays, since 90% is a good amount.  Does anyone have any experience or recommendations as to who I might work with?  I use the Silouhette infusion sets, standard reservoirs, the power pack and IV3000 dressing.  Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. You may want to check with a local medical supply house.  Although they would not have these items in stock, they may be willing to order them for you and would accept the insurance assignment.  They would charge your insurance company more than what MiniMed charges. Another option for supplies are mail order pharmacies like 50-50 and http://insulininfusion.com Good luck, Marilyn T1 for 33 years, pumping for the last 11

Response:

I understand your problem (I feel your pain???), but I thought it was frowned upon by insurance companies to waive the 10%.  I think it has to do with making sure there is no hanky-panky going on with the prices.  If they did cover the 10%, it would have to be from a third party, like their compassionate account. It’s a weird accounting exercise, but I think that’s where it stands. jeff I have been ordering my pump supplies from MiniMed every three months and they seem reluctant to accept the 90% that my insurance pays as payment in full, despite the fact that I can document financial hardship.  I feel that they are gouging us and would like to find another supplier that would accept what the insurance pays, since 90% is a good amount.  Does anyone have any experience or recommendations as to who I might work with?  I use the Silouhette infusion sets, standard reservoirs, the power pack and IV3000 dressing.  Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Antonio

   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

I was at an ADA convention recently where MinMed said compassionate use was still a few months away. Doug B. — Buck Type II, Insulin www.diabeticnet.com

I have been ordering my pump supplies from MiniMed every three months and they seem reluctant to accept the 90% that my insurance pays as payment in full, despite the fact that I can document financial hardship.  I feel that they are gouging us and would like to find another supplier that would accept what the insurance pays, since 90% is a good amount.  Does anyone have any experience or recommendations as to who I might work with?  I use the Silouhette infusion sets, standard reservoirs, the power pack and IV3000 dressing.  Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

You may want to check with a local medical supply house.  Although they would not have these items in stock, they may be willing to order them for you and would accept the insurance assignment.  They would charge your insurance company more than what MiniMed charges. Another option for supplies are mail order pharmacies like 50-50 and http://insulininfusion.com Good luck, Marilyn T1 for 33 years, pumping for the last 11

Response:

I have been ordering my pump supplies from MiniMed every three months and they seem reluctant to accept the 90% that my insurance pays as payment in full, despite the fact that I can document financial hardship.  I feel that they are gouging us and would like to find another supplier that would accept what the insurance pays, since 90% is a good amount.  Does anyone have any experience or recommendations as to who I might work with?  I use the Silouhette infusion sets, standard reservoirs, the power pack and IV3000 dressing.  Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Antonio

Response:

I have been ordering my pump supplies from MiniMed every three months and they seem reluctant to accept the 90% that my insurance pays as payment in full, despite the fact that I can document financial hardship.  I feel that they are gouging us and would like to find another supplier that would accept what the insurance pays, since 90% is a good amount.  Does anyone have any experience or recommendations as to who I might work with?  I use the Silouhette infusion sets, standard reservoirs, the power pack and IV3000 dressing.  Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

You may want to check with a local medical supply house.  Although they would not have these items in stock, they may be willing to order them for you and would accept the insurance assignment.  They would charge your insurance company more than what MiniMed charges. Another option for supplies are mail order pharmacies like 50-50 and http://insulininfusion.com Good luck, Marilyn T1 for 33 years, pumping for the last 11

Response:

Question:

Hello, I’m delurking again(gasp), and would like to add my POV to an old thread.  Remember the flaunting IQs?  Well, I would like to say this that is a little bit of justification for us.  All my life I’ve been bad at English(I always wonder if it’s a second language for me), and am in fact in my senior year of HS, and at the beginning of the year I found I needed 1.75 credits to graduate.  Sound familiar at all to anyone? ;}  Well, I’ve always been getting bad grades in that class, and finally am getting very grades to kind of balence it out. (Let’s see, first semester’s grades were A’s, B’s, and one single F) Well, before due to a bit of what I would call a mini-depression, mainly because all the time before I got my ACT scores back, I’ve always felt like a stupid idiot, from things such as interpersonal communication (all the kids thought, and still think I’m weird), to just outright blunders(not being good at things like basketball, or catching, or hitting baseballs).  You might say I had a low self-image.  Well, after all this sob-story of a life, I get my ACT scores back and find, WOW, I got a score of a 29 composite, 96th percentile!  And I also took the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery(ASVAB) and got a score of 97 of 99, I was what you could call happy?  Now, after all that long period of time of feeling stupid because I was so… ‘different’, could you imagine how I would be happy because of the score I got, and maybe showing it off a bit?  I think that’s some of why some people flaunt their IQs…  Because they feel they are so stupid for their entire life, and put a death grip on something that says otherwise. Sorry if I annoyed any of you too much.  Flames should be sent via E-mail where they will be appraised for humor value, then tossed out.

Response:

— good stuff snipped — Now, after all that long period of time of feeling stupid because I was so… ‘different’, could you imagine how I would be happy because of the score I got, and maybe showing it off a bit?  I think that’s some of why some people flaunt their IQs…  Because they feel they are so stupid for their entire life, and put a death grip on something that says otherwise.

Thanks for posting.  I have felt the same way. I recently read through my old high school yearbooks, and found where a fellow misfit had written:      "To my smart and dumb friend…" And right there, it really HIT me!  Throughout school, I had always been, *SIMULTANEOUSLY*, the smartest and dumbest kid in class. Sorry if I annoyed any of you too much.

People who make me think are never an annoyance. Flames should be sent via E-mail where they will be appraised for humor value, then tossed out.

Yeeoooow!  I like your style; can you stick around for awhile? — A Silicon Graphics Company — http://home.cray.com/~glover

Response:

Hello, I’m delurking again(gasp), and would like to add my POV to an old thread.  Remember the flaunting IQs?  Well, I would like to say this that is a little bit of justification for us.  All my life I’ve been bad at English(I always wonder if it’s a second language for me), and am in fact in my senior year of HS, and at the beginning of the year I found I needed 1.75 credits to graduate.  Sound familiar at all to anyone? ;}  Well, I’ve always been getting bad grades in that class, and finally am getting very grades to kind of balence it out. (Let’s see, first semester’s grades were A’s, B’s, and one single F)

I can totally relate.  I found my final high school grade report card. first semester grades for Contemporary novels, econ, psych, spanish, accounting and comp sci first marking period B, A-, A, B+, A, A- second marking period B, A-, A, B, A, B+ third marking period C-, B+, A, B+, A, B exam D+, N, A, B+, B, A semester grade C+, B+, A, B+, A, B second semester grades for mythology, government, sociology, spanish, accounting and comp sci. B1, B+, C+, A-, A, A  (1=Good attitude) C5, C-, B, B, A, A-  (5=Achieving below apparent ability) D-, B-, A-, B, B, C+ exam N, N, N, N, B, N (we were let go without exams for graduation) semester grade C-, B-, B, B, A, B The spanish class was a joke.  I was in drama club and as long as I showed up for class I would get a B.  Didn’t remember doing that well in econ.  Suprised at accounting (I didn’t figure out how to add until college) musta used a calculator. that 5 really got me laughing. I never studied and still don’t know how to.  Its really hard for me. I also found a poster with this on it  "Everything I didn’t do yesterday added to everything I haven’t done today plus everything I won’t do tomorrow completely exhausts me."  I knew I had it, I just didn’t know what I had  :-). Of course there’s no way I have ADD (according to my father) since I read the books on it.  HUH?

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Question:

I am pleased to announce that misc.activism.general has passed by a vote of 756 in favor to 323 against. There being more than 100 yes votes than no votes and at least twice as many yes votes than no votes (in fact, 756 – 646 = 110 more than twice), the group passes. The voting tally is enclosed below. I am also pleased to announce that we will live up to our promise to hold a re-naming "referendum" of some sort. ACTIV-L and the progressive community recognize the folly of "peace through superior fire-power" all too well, and despite the (self-admitted, in several votes) anti-misc.activism.general "activist" drive by those who declared they hated everything it stands for, I believe that nevertheless a significant fraction of those 323 NO voters were either potential friends who didn’t like the name or otherwise apathetic Net-folk who were bothered by that name. Whatever this fraction actually was, it is too many potential co-activists to alienate, and too many otherwise "live and let live" Netters to annoy, especially by an activist group wishing to promote positive social change in this country and this world.  - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Referendum: Included below is an idea for a referendum. Over the next 4-7 days I am asking people to post to news.groups and alt.activism (and other groups if they wish) both alternative "referendum" suggestions and, if they wish, alternatives to the list of possible alternate-names included below. (I will actually be out of state until the 14th) Everyone is free to suggest whatever they want, but clearly it would behoove those who were genuine in their opposition to the name only to counter the cries likely to come from at least a small group of people that we cannot hold a referendum and that we would need to start all over again. In a choice between the delay and huge amount of work involved in starting over on the one hand and keeping misc.activism.general on the other, we would choose the later; but there is no reason whatsoever why a minority of unreasonable voices should dictate to us (the supporters/Yes voters and the group of those preferring a different name) the unreasonable situation of having to choose between these two options. Ok, I’ve explained before why "talk" ; "peacenet" and "left" are not appropriate (*) — here are some alternate names I feel would be reasonable alternatives: [(*) I strongly suggest those who have not read the New Newsgroup Proposal fully to do so if they wish to participate in the discussion; send the 1-line command GET NEWSGRP PROPOSAL ACTIV-L to First,         misc.activism.progressive or         misc.activism.progressive.general         misc.activism.progressive.("misc" or other alt. to "general") as well as         misc.progressive.(general/misc/etc) or, something I just thought of recently which would reflect the PACH ("Progressive Alliance Clearing House")  mega-project well, as well as convey a ".general," how about:         misc.progressive.clearinghouse  - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Here’s the idea I have for a referendum, something which will likely be both quick and satisfying for those whose disagreement with m.a.g. was genuinely because of the name, and upset those with other agenda. Suppose we wish to consider names X, Y and Z as alternate names. Only those who have participated in the voting may participate in this referendum ("only" those 1,079..), as follows: (*)Those who have voted YES may say "I would have voted against the same group with this alternate name" and (*)those who have voted NO may say "I would have voted for the same group with this alternate name" (or would have abstained, or even just prefer that name) (*) It is clear enough that no sane argument could be made that an abstainer would have voted NO because of a re-naming in the "direction" we are offering, while the reverse is certainly not the case; there may well have been quite a number of "almost"/"would be" supporters who abstained, rather than voting YES, because of uneasiness with the name; however, I am willing, and I’m reasonably confident ACTIV-Lers in general are willing, to exclude this group as well from the referendum as another gesture of good will. In fact, excluding unfitting names I mentioned above (I listed only three though I’m sure some people could come up with more), it can be said that with a fair amount of confidence that there will be very few if any objections of the first (*) category, in particular, to the half a dozen suggested alternate names I listed above. In fact, we need make no apology to being a bit enamored of this particular group of possible alternates since *by far* the most popular alternate name mailed in with NO votes (or even YES votes) was the "progressive" these above.  - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – We will of course be contacting the net administrators one notifies when a group passes about these ideas; I see no reason why a referendum of the type outlined above would be troublesome or disagreeable for them in any way, but again, it would behoove that set of genuine "friendly opposition" people and "otherwise apathetic but reasonable" folks to drown out the "purist" (misnomer) cries which may arise against this proposal, which we are offering as (perhaps a selfish one — we don’t want to loose those who potentially would join the various activist projects we are working on) friendly gesture towards those who were genuine in their stated opposition to the group’s name. Enclosed is the vote tally. Note that I counted votes by the principle of reasonableness (what did the voter intend?), so that a "NO vote" by a prominent Net person which was actually against "talk.activism.general", techinically not a NO vote since the correct group name was not given, was actually counted. There were other such "no" votes. I even counted:     *Newsgroups:     *news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.activism,soc.rights.human,s     *oc.culture.latin-america,soc.motss,talk.environment     *Organization: Ericsson Telecom AB, Stockholm, Sweden     * As a no vote (hint: see the "cc:" line). There was one YES vote for "misc.activ.general" and one for "misc.activism.gen" which I also counted, although the NO voters tended to stray more, for "creativity." As suggested by the margin of over 100 votes, the outcome would have been the same without this laxness/generosity/whatever. –Harel                                NO votes NO 8243P%NAVPGS.bitnet (Ruth Ann White) NO DARGAB%IUBACS.bitnet NO FRARALH%YALEVM.bitnet NO FREUND_C%JHUVMS.bitnet NO HOLTHOR%YALEVM.bitnet NO IF05432%FARMNTON.bitnet NO REWOICC%ERENJ.bitnet NO SYVDK%TJUVM.BITNET (David J. Kernen) NO YBMCU%CUNYVM.bitnet (Ben Yalow) NO bu.edu!bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU!think!trystro!root (Richard Nickle) NO bu.edu!sequent.UUCP!techbook.com!laura (Laura Gillespie) NO bu.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ames!juts.ccc.amdahl.com!ked01 (Kim DeVaughn) NO ch%dce.ie (Charles Bryant) NO chance!john (John R MacMillan) NO … read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everyone is free to suggest whatever they want, but clearly it would behoove those who were genuine in their opposition to the name only to counter the cries likely to come from at least a small group of people that we cannot hold a referendum and that we would need to start all over again. In a choice between the delay and huge amount of work involved in starting over on the one hand and keeping misc.activism.general on the other, we would choose the later; but there is no reason whatsoever why a minority of unreasonable voices should dictate to us (the supporters/Yes voters and the group of those preferring a different name) the unreasonable situation of having to choose between these two options. If the referendum is done in accordance with the group creation rules, this site will honor that referendum.  If not, not.  Your actions within a newsgroup may be conducted with any method you prefer.  Your actions in attempting to modify the global namespace must comply with the global rules.

Could you please be more explicit as to "by the rules?" The rules I have seen do not address name-changes. To suggest a full CFV to kill the old and/or a CFV to start a new one seems "extremist" to me, but which I mean no more or less than it would take a *long* time and a *lot* of work. What I am proposing, Steve, is that (i) names be suggested (ii) those who had been among the voters be able to say if other proposed names are ok with them. I think most/all of the "progressive" variations, the most commontly suggested by those objecting/ill-at-ease with the name regardless of their vote, would be "ok" with the YES voters. The name (not including "misc.activism.general" — see "nothing sinister" post) which gets the greatest number of oks as "not objectionable" from that group would be changed to; in a manner such that had the same people voted with that other name, the group would again have passed. Again, the outcome could only have been more in favor of the group had one of the less objectionable names been chosen. My *only* problem(s) with starting over is that huge amount of work and hence time involved.  As you say, we won fair and square… For the record, my no vote was in opposition to the name — and this site *will* honor the creation of m.a.g.  We puts our money where our mouth is.

…and have decided to accommodate our critics *despite* this. Now, we’d like to do this without a long delay or having to ask for formal votes from over 1,000 people all over again. Is that too much to ask? Can’t we all be reasonable and see that, for example, misc.activism.progressive.gen is a name virtually 100% of the YES voters would be happy with and *many* of the NO voters would have voted for or abtained, and change to something like that, without having a gesture of good will, living up to the referendum proposal, turn out to be something to hurt those making that gesture? Harel  - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – For the record, my no vote was in opposition to the name — and this site *will* honor the creation of m.a.g.  We puts our money where our mouth is.

I never said *all* our opponents were disingenuous. Just that *there exitsted* such. I’m glad you are living up to your responsibilities and allowing m.a.g.; for now, though, we will live up to what we see as ours and not start "m.a.g." posts, though I appreciate your acceptance of the vote.

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I don’t much care for them either, but 1000 votes is a big vote; if they got that many off a mailing list, it was long overdue to become a newsgroup;

I agree. I argued for that during the discussion period. The only problem, as with many a group, is the name. As usual, the vote-taker got the only vote on that question. It’s still too early to tell how many sysadmins will honor it, but the voting’s done. This is the time honored "sore loser’s bitch fest" that traditionally comes after the vote.

I think it’s more than that, given the number of people (including the moderator of news.announce.newgroups!) who have declared that will not carry the group. I’ll add my name: it’ll be aliased to m.a.progressive before it shows up anywhere I have any say. —    `-_-’     ‘U`

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Did anybody notice that this vote list had 143 "yes" votes that came via cdp and zero "no" votes from there?

Does rather suggest that the vote publicity was focused on only those who’d vote the part line.  A group that has _no_ dissenters is so brainwashed it is too scary to contemplate. Yeah, and I also noted the flood of yes votes from BITNET sites.

Well, in terms of sites actually carrying USENet news, BITNET is kind of small potatoes, but they do have a pretty substantial presense in every vote I’ve seen If I’m not mistaken (and I could be) BITNET is not connected to Usenet.

It’s gatewayed (used to be several places; now that the net’s faster, might be just one) to USENet for mail and news, and news software exists for the EBCDIC crowd, but I’d surely guess the numbers of actual news readers/participants are relatively small, compared to the rest of the net. I could be horrendously wrong, though.  Anybody know? I suspect a plea for votes was sent out on the ACTIV-L mailing list and the group knee-jerked its way to life.

I don’t much care for them either, but 1000 votes is a big vote; if they got that many off a mailing list, it was long overdue to become a newsgroup; remember, that’s the origin of the "100 votes" part of the rule.  I think they’ve proved they have access of some sort to a lot of folks responsive to their call. It’s still too early to tell how many sysadmins will honor it, but the voting’s done. This is the time honored "sore loser’s bitch fest" that traditionally comes after the vote. I would be interested in a further HONEST accounting of the votes.

I’d be much more interested in a meta-question:           Just who is supposed to vote in these elections? The current rule in practice is: if you _can_ vote, then you _may_ vote. But 5/6ths of the users at sites receiving USENet news don’t read news _at_ _all_. Are these the folks we want deciding on the future of the newsgroups, and if not, what, if anything, can be done to prevent a flood of votes being solicited outside the visible channels, from people who have no interest in the results, but just vote in response to pressure tactics? Or, is it simply elitism to try to restrict the franchise in any way? We saw the same thing in the SCO interest group vote, there was some fairly clumpy voting in the Amiga reorganization, and probably lots of others. Is it _fair_ to go out on the quad and recruit a hundred Ultimate playing strangers to go in and get accounts just to vote for rec.sport.disk? Kent, the man from xanth. — Personally, of course, I think you should get a vote per article posted in the last year, but that’s ’cause I just topped one of the news.lists postings again.  ;-)

Response:

Did anybody notice that this vote list had 143 "yes" votes that came via cdp and zero "no" votes from there? — "If God can do anything, can he float a loan even he can’t repay?"         –Blair Houghton, cross-posting

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Did anybody notice that this vote list had 143 "yes" votes that came via cdp and zero "no" votes from there?

Yeah, and I also noted the flood of yes votes from BITNET sites. If I’m not mistaken (and I could be) BITNET is not connected to Usenet.  I suspect a plea for votes was sent out on the ACTIV-L mailing list and the group knee-jerked its way to life. I would be interested in a further HONEST accounting of the votes. Cheers, Chris Chris Mauritz                 |Show me the way to the

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