Hullo | Accounting Bookkeeping

Question:

Benny wrote: > I really don’t know how to approach this > tough situation. Any advice would be great.

I am 60 years old. I have been married four times, twice to the same woman (#1 & #4; the mother of my children). My grown children are 30 and 31. Each produced a grandchild last year. Our daughter lives literally next door. I’m having dinner at her place in an hour or so. Our son lives in the nearest large town, about 45 minutes away. I can’t tell you what you should do, but I can tell you what I would do. I would be rent a U Haul and head for Cleveland. I have experienced nothing in this life as miserable as living with an unhappy woman. I have experienced nothing as wonderful as living with a happy woman, with the possible exception of playing with my grandchildren. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com

Response:

It’s bad enough trying to spend a long weekend with > her..I can’t imagine living in the same area code. My brother in law > can atest to that, since he’s been putting up with her for years…we > constantly talk about how annoying she is. So really feel that I would > be just as miserable, if not more so in Cleveland.

Just remember there is a huge difference between spending the weekend with someone and living in the same home town. It’s usually much easier living in your own house and in your own space, than living with your in-laws. You mightn’t find it nearly so bad if you were actually living there in your own place. Why not try staying in your own accommodation when you go and visit them and see whether this is more tolerable.

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It appears that the OP has disappeared.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: Jim Hudspeth >I am 60 years old. I have been married four times, twice to the same woman >(#1 & #4; the mother of my children). My grown children are 30 and 31. >Each produced a grandchild last year. Our daughter lives literally next >door. I’m having dinner at her place in an hour or so. Our son lives in >the nearest large town, about 45 minutes away. >I can’t tell you what you should do, but I can tell you what I would do. >I would be rent a U Haul and head for Cleveland. >I have experienced nothing in this life as miserable as living with an >unhappy woman. >I have experienced nothing as wonderful as living with a happy woman, with >the possible exception of playing with my grandchildren. >– >Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA >http://survivalworks.com

You my dear, sound like a wise man who has finally gotten it )

Response:

Jadelee111512 wrote: > You my dear, sound like a wise man who has finally gotten it )

At my age I sure hope so. My wife is spending this weekend at a rented house with a bunch of female nurses from the clinic where she works. I have the weekend to play (alt.accounting, alt.support.marriage, alt.whatever, New Yorker, Atlantic Monthly, Wall St. Journal, etc., etc.). I just finished dinner with my daughter & granddaughter at my daughter’s place. Her husband had to work late. He just got home. We had a few very pleasant words & I left. They need some time. — Jim Hudspeth,

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>From: Jim Hudspeth >> You my dear, sound like a wise man who has finally gotten it ) >At my age I sure hope so.

Some people never do

Response:

My response: I think this is a serious situation. My aunt married a man and had a child in a town where she was not happy. It never got better and he would not move because he wanted to stay where his mother lived and he liked his job. She stayed until her daugher graduated from high school and then she left. That’s a long time to endur a place you hate. I visited her and I didn’t like it there either. Some places are just not meant for some people. It doesn’t sound like you two really care as much for being with each other as you care about being with your families. I think you should consider a separation and definitely no children until this is sorted out. Or you could move half way in between the families. That way you would each be an hour away from each family. Or move to somewhere completely away from both families. That way you depend on each other for company. So that is my two cents. Benny wrote:

Hi. Let me give you a little background…I’ve been married for 1.5 years. We are both 29. We met in college, and she moved to my hometown after college. I never asked her to move here, but we were serious at the time, and she had some great friends living here, so she moved. 4 yrs later, we were engaged. Now we are married, and living in my hometown, Columbus, Ohio, for 6 yrs. total. We are both very close with are immediate families. My wife grew up in Cleveland (2.5 hrs north of Columbus)and her family still lives there, mother,father and sister. Here’s where the problem arises. Over the last few years, my wife has been complaning periodically how she doesn’t like Columbus, her friends have moved, and she really really misses her family…some part of her is "missing". That brings us to the present…last night she basically comes out and says that she wants to move to Cleveland in a year or two, and has been hinting that over the last few years. Her mother, father and only sister liver in Cleveland. Her sister recently had her first baby a few months ago, her mother is always reminding my wife how much she misses her, and I believe making her feel guilty for living in Columbus. Also, her mother is constently upset…her sister apparently treats her mother horribly,so my wife feels she should be there for her mother. My wife says "if you love me and can see that i’m not myself in Columbus (which she’s not)then you’ll do this one thing for me and move." Now, I’ve lived my entire life here, all my close friends still live here, I have a good job in a small company working with friends, my brother who is my best friend lives 2 minutes from me, my sister just got married and lives not too far from me, and I’m also a mamas boy. Furthermore, my wife’s family is Italian, and extremely loud,nosey,and overbearing(mainly my mother-in-law). It’s bad enough trying to spend a long weekend with her..I can’t imagine living in the same area code. My brother in law can atest to that, since he’s been putting up with her for years…we constantly talk about how annoying she is. So really feel that I would be just as miserable, if not more so in Cleveland. So we are at an impass. She thinks I should do this for her, because she’s done it for me for 6 years. According to her, I shouldn’t have assumed that we were living in Columbus for the rest of our lives. Also, she has a feeling that when she’s pregnant in a year or two, her feeling of home sickness will triple and will probably want to move to be with her mother and sister…not to mention she wants our kids to grow up with her nieces and nephews. After 4.5 hrs of arguing last night, nothing is resolved. I really don’t know how to approach this tough situation. Any advice would be great. Thnx, B

Response:

>From: cheron…@webtv.net >I think this is a serious situation. My aunt married a man and had a >child in a town where she was not happy. It never got better and he >would not move because he wanted to stay where his mother lived and he >liked his job. She stayed until her daugher graduated from high school >and then she left. That’s a long time to endur a place you hate. I >visited her and I didn’t like it there either. Some places are just not >meant for some people. It doesn’t sound like you two really care as much >for being with each other as you care about being with your families. I >think you should consider a separation and definitely no children until >this is sorted out. Or you could move half way in between the families. >That way you would each be an hour away from each family. Or move to >somewhere completely away from both families. That way you depend on >each other for company. So that is my two cents.

What happens if that distance happens to be a thousand miles away? My husband wants to stay here and I want to live where we both came from.

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Jadelee111512 wrote | It appears that the OP has disappeared. | | Hate it when that happens – Michaela

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I think that first you two need to elevate your discourse a little bit. It sounds like she is using some really classic manipulation attacks, e.g. If you really loved me, you would… and I did that for you, now you should do this for me… Also you say she has changed (she’s not herself in Columbus). Don’t expect her to change change back to what she was 5 years ago It won’t happen. People change, and don’t expect the reasoning of "If only this were fixed everything would be ok again." It doesn’t happen. If she’s unhappy in Columbus, she’ll be unhappy in Cleveland. Just for a different reason. If you shouldn’t have made the assumption that you would be in Columbus the rest of your lives, she shouldn’t have assumed that you wouldn’t be. Have you considered seeing a marriage counselor? If you argue for 4.5 hours and got nowhere, there’s a problem. I think that you need to learn how to productively and jointly solve a problem. The other thing is in either case you would only be a few hours away from the other city. Surely you can find some sort of compromise. Before you can make a good decision about where to live you probably both need to learn how to communicate and fight fair. Tony In article <fd6ac55d.0201180855.1ba90…@posting.google.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - bennyandthej…@yahoo.com (Benny) wrote: > Hi. Let me give you a little background…I’ve been married for 1.5 > years. We are both 29. We met in college, and she moved to my hometown > after college. I never asked her to move here, but we were serious at > the time, and she had some great friends living here, so she moved. 4 > yrs later, we were engaged. Now we are married, and living in my > hometown, Columbus, Ohio, for 6 yrs. total. We are both very close > with are immediate families. My wife grew up in Cleveland (2.5 hrs > north of Columbus)and her family still lives there, mother,father and > sister. Here’s where the problem arises. Over the last few years, my > wife has been complaning periodically how she doesn’t like Columbus, > her friends have moved, and she really really misses her family…some > part of her is "missing". That brings us to the present…last night > she basically comes out and says that she wants to move to Cleveland > in a year or two, and has been hinting that over the last few years. > Her mother, father and only sister liver in Cleveland. Her sister > recently had her first baby a few months ago, her mother is always > reminding my wife how much she misses her, and I believe making her > feel guilty for living in Columbus. Also, her mother is constently > upset…her sister apparently treats her mother horribly,so my wife > feels she should be there for her mother. My wife says "if you love me > and can see that i’m not myself in Columbus (which she’s not)then > you’ll do this one thing for me and move." Now, I’ve lived my entire > life here, all my close friends still live here, I have a good job in > a small company working with friends, my brother who is my best friend > lives 2 minutes from me, my sister just got married and lives not too > far from me, and I’m also a mamas boy. Furthermore, my wife’s family > is Italian, and extremely loud,nosey,and overbearing(mainly my > mother-in-law). It’s bad enough trying to spend a long weekend with > her..I can’t imagine living in the same area code. My brother in law > can atest to that, since he’s been putting up with her for years…we > constantly talk about how annoying she is. So really feel that I would > be just as miserable, if not more so in Cleveland. > So we are at an impass. She thinks I should do this for her, because > she’s done it for me for 6 years. According to her, I shouldn’t have > assumed that we were living in Columbus for the rest of our lives. > Also, she has a feeling that when she’s pregnant in a year or two, her > feeling of home sickness will triple and will probably want to move to > be with her mother and sister…not to mention she wants our kids to > grow up with her nieces and nephews. After 4.5 hrs of arguing last > night, nothing is resolved. I really don’t know how to approach this > tough situation. Any advice would be great. > Thnx, B

Response:

Benny <bennyandthej…@yahoo.com> wrote:

: So we are at an impass. She thinks I should do this for her, because : she’s done it for me for 6 years. According to her, I shouldn’t have : assumed that we were living in Columbus for the rest of our lives. Why she thinks you shouldn’t? Has she told you she is unhappy in Columbus? From your post it is very clear she doesn’t feel good, but it is not clear if living where you live is an issue. How about asking her exactly what is not OK with Columbus? If she will insist on leaving, offer her moving to some other place – far away from Columbus AND far away from her family. You are married to her not to her family, if you can’t stand them, don’t move next to them – it will only make matters worse. Tell your wife you don’t want to live next to them, and listen what she will answer. : Also, she has a feeling that when she’s pregnant in a year or two, her : feeling of home sickness will triple and will probably want to move to : be with her mother and sister…not to mention she wants our kids to : grow up with her nieces and nephews. After 4.5 hrs of arguing last : night, nothing is resolved. I really don’t know how to approach this : tough situation. Any advice would be great. This ir bad sign, IMHO. She doesn’t feel secure. Maybe her relationships with your relatives in Columbus has some problems? You should discuss your "general life plan" with your wife: how do you plan your careers, how many kids do you plan to have, does she plan to be SOHM, how she feels about changes in her life, what she expects from you and what you expect from her. There are many questions you can ask yourself and then discuss with your wife – and answers for you both absolutely *must* be at least not mutualy exclusive. Place where you live may have nothing to do with your problems at all. Timo — Chamber-pot is spamtrap. Contact me tiwoll at gmx dot net.

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>From: TommyJ >Assuming you would be at least equally unhappy if you moved, I’m siding >a little bit with you, -for now.

That makes little sense to me. >Your wife made the decision to move to >be with you. You didn’t ask her to do that. Although maybe that didn’t >constitute a "life-time" agreement in her mind, moving would be a >drastic change for you that you hadn’t anticipated when you agreed to >get married. She knew what she was getting in to.

Life is about taking risks. If you don’t take risks then you don’t grow. It is possible…and of course I am speaking from my own experience that one takes a risk and realizes it was a mistake. That is the case for me. I have been here for 8+ years and realize that without the sun and ocean I am often depressed. Living in sweat clothes 10 months out of the year sucks in my opinion. Does that mean that I should be forced to stay here until I’m in my 60’s? The point I am making is this: couples should work together for the good of the relationship. Whether the issue is moving, finances, in laws or children…the couple should be figuring out how everyone’s needs can be met. If someone is not happy, it should be discussed how they can work together as a team to help that person become happier. It seems a bit callous to me to hear something like…well, she made her bed, now she has to lie in it. >However, if and/when you have kids, you may want to consider moving if >your wife would be the primary care person for them.

Things don’t magically change for the better once children arrive. If this woman is not happy now, then they had better figure out what their plans are before getting pregnant! Perhaps no children are in order if they can’t reach an agreement and she really and truly needs to move. I didn’t realize >how important the support of the extended family can be until we had a >child. Trust me on this one. Assuming her family is physically and >emotionally able to help with the care of your child, being a convenient >distance away can make you and your wife’s life with kids much easier.

I have raised both of my children away from family and have done a wonderful job. Family is not as crucial in my opinion as being where you want to be. I raised one child in Calif, where I loved it and one child here, where I hate it and believe me…it makes a world of difference. And I had no family there or here. >There are lots of other issues at work here though. One concern I’d have >is that you don’t like your mother in law very much and that might be >exacerbated by moving closer and by having kids.

Hehe. I won’t even touch that issue. Mother in laws can be rancid even when you live 3000 miles away. Another thing for your >wife to think about is that a little distance can be a good thing when >there’s conflict in the family. She maybe trading one set of bad >feelings for another if you two move closer to her family and she’s >constantly dealing with the fighting between her mother and sister.

How old is this woman? I assume she is a grown up and understands the logistics and dynamics involved. She did, afterall, grow up with them >Perhaps you could agree to a two year trial, your wife may remember some >of the reasons she left had nothing to do with you and be eager to leave >again. On the other hand, you may find that living there isn’t so bad, >and 2.5 hours isn’t really all that far away from your own family.

Now that’s a good idea! But it will have to be well thought out ahead of time…purchasing houses and finding jobs are not issues to be dealt with lightly. >Lastly, your individual happiness is tied to your spouse’s to a certain >extent. So even if you look at it selfishly, being married to a happy >person is a whole lot nicer than being married to one that’s miserable.

I agree In our case, my husband claims that he’d be miserable if we moved back to CA. So I guess we get to have me miserable here so that he isn’t miserable there. As you see, we have not resolved this issue. I probably should not even be responding to this thread for that matter! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Just as an aside, given the choice, my wife would prefer to move my hometown and I would prefer to move to hers. I like the scenic beauty and quaintness of her town, but she dislikes the cold weather, -not that my hometown is exactly tropical. She’d prefer to live closer to my family. Unfortunately, her family was small. She’s an only child, her mother’s dead, and her father has been in an institution for several years. But, if we didn’t have kids, she probably wouldn’t have that much desire to live any closer to my family than we do today.

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Benny wrote:

<snip > So we are at an impass. She thinks I should do this for her, because > she’s done it for me for 6 years. According to her, I shouldn’t have > assumed that we were living in Columbus for the rest of our lives. > Also, she has a feeling that when she’s pregnant in a year or two, her > feeling of home sickness will triple and will probably want to move to > be with her mother and sister…not to mention she wants our kids to > grow up with her nieces and nephews. After 4.5 hrs of arguing last > night, nothing is resolved. I really don’t know how to approach this > tough situation. Any advice would be great. > Thnx, B

I’m sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation. Jadelee’s advice about listening to your wife (and how to listen) is very good. Assuming you would be at least equally unhappy if you moved, I’m siding a little bit with you, -for now. Your wife made the decision to move to be with you. You didn’t ask her to do that. Although maybe that didn’t constitute a "life-time" agreement in her mind, moving would be a drastic change for you that you hadn’t anticipated when you agreed to get married. She knew what she was getting in to. However, if and/when you have kids, you may want to consider moving if your wife would be the primary care person for them. I didn’t realize how important the support of the extended family can be until we had a child. Trust me on this one. Assuming her family is physically and emotionally able to help with the care of your child, being a convenient distance away can make you and your wife’s life with kids much easier. There are lots of other issues at work here though. One concern I’d have is that you don’t like your mother in law very much and that might be exacerbated by moving closer and by having kids. Another thing for your wife to think about is that a little distance can be a good thing when there’s conflict in the family. She maybe trading one set of bad feelings for another if you two move closer to her family and she’s constantly dealing with the fighting between her mother and sister. Perhaps you could agree to a two year trial, your wife may remember some of the reasons she left had nothing to do with you and be eager to leave again. On the other hand, you may find that living there isn’t so bad, and 2.5 hours isn’t really all that far away from your own family. Lastly, your individual happiness is tied to your spouse’s to a certain extent. So even if you look at it selfishly, being married to a happy person is a whole lot nicer than being married to one that’s miserable.

Response:

Hi B, I very much relate to your situation, although I moved much farther to be with my husband. I have not been happy here so in your post, I mostly relate to your wife. My suggestion to you is to try and be as understanding as possible. Try and listen to your wife without saying, "yeah but…". Be empathic and try and put yourself in her shoes. One of the most frustrating things in a relationship is when a spouse tries to explain how they feel and they’re met with resistance. That adds insult to injury. I also highly recommend seeking some counseling over this particular issue. A person who is not involved in your lives can look at the situation without any biases (unlike friends and family). The bottom line is that it’s a very real issue that causes pain to both of you and it has to be addressed. A trained professional can help you with this. You don’t have to go for years a psychotherapy… this is just to address this problem. I feel for both of you. My husband is in your shoes and we have wrestled with this issue for close to 9 years. The whole time, me living where he wants to live. It’s not easy but you have to both come to terms with it. Again, until you can seek some outside help, I suggest that you try to be as understanding and kind as possible toward your wife’s feelings. Don’t resist how she feels.

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Hi. Let me give you a little background…I’ve been married for 1.5 years. We are both 29. We met in college, and she moved to my hometown after college. I never asked her to move here, but we were serious at the time, and she had some great friends living here, so she moved. 4 yrs later, we were engaged. Now we are married, and living in my hometown, Columbus, Ohio, for 6 yrs. total. We are both very close with are immediate families. My wife grew up in Cleveland (2.5 hrs north of Columbus)and her family still lives there, mother,father and sister. Here’s where the problem arises. Over the last few years, my wife has been complaning periodically how she doesn’t like Columbus, her friends have moved, and she really really misses her family…some part of her is "missing". That brings us to the present…last night she basically comes out and says that she wants to move to Cleveland in a year or two, and has been hinting that over the last few years. Her mother, father and only sister liver in Cleveland. Her sister recently had her first baby a few months ago, her mother is always reminding my wife how much she misses her, and I believe making her feel guilty for living in Columbus. Also, her mother is constently upset…her sister apparently treats her mother horribly,so my wife feels she should be there for her mother. My wife says "if you love me and can see that i’m not myself in Columbus (which she’s not)then you’ll do this one thing for me and move." Now, I’ve lived my entire life here, all my close friends still live here, I have a good job in a small company working with friends, my brother who is my best friend lives 2 minutes from me, my sister just got married and lives not too far from me, and I’m also a mamas boy. Furthermore, my wife’s family is Italian, and extremely loud,nosey,and overbearing(mainly my mother-in-law). It’s bad enough trying to spend a long weekend with her..I can’t imagine living in the same area code. My brother in law can atest to that, since he’s been putting up with her for years…we constantly talk about how annoying she is. So really feel that I would be just as miserable, if not more so in Cleveland. So we are at an impass. She thinks I should do this for her, because she’s done it for me for 6 years. According to her, I shouldn’t have assumed that we were living in Columbus for the rest of our lives. Also, she has a feeling that when she’s pregnant in a year or two, her feeling of home sickness will triple and will probably want to move to be with her mother and sister…not to mention she wants our kids to grow up with her nieces and nephews. After 4.5 hrs of arguing last night, nothing is resolved. I really don’t know how to approach this tough situation. Any advice would be great. Thnx, B

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Question:

We flew to Crete from the UK in June, with our 5-month-old girl. No trouble at all! A friend flew from the UK to South America with her two daughters (then 4 and 1), and no-one else to help! However, she gave them a homoeopathic medicine to help settle them for the flight. Most airlines will cater for little’uns. However, it might be worth seeing if you can get a more comfortable (eg. spacious) seat in advance, by pre-booking. Have a lovely trip! Jo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

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I did EWR-LUX numerous times on Lufthansa, and saw that their handling of small children and infants in the bulkhead bassinets was outstanding. Its almost as if they had a designated flight attendant who kept an eye on them and the parents at all times. If I had to take my 2yr old, I’d do LH in a flash. I also had great time in BWIA 1st class with a one year old. I’d avoid AF, continental and united with a kid. In my experience they treated kids or parents with kids as a nusiance. -Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We flew to Crete from the UK in June, with our 5-month-old girl. No trouble at all! A friend flew from the UK to South America with her two daughters (then 4 and 1), and no-one else to help! However, she gave them a homoeopathic medicine to help settle them for the flight. Most airlines will cater for little’uns. However, it might be worth seeing if you can get a more comfortable (eg. spacious) seat in advance, by pre-booking. Have a lovely trip! Jo My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

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My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us. We took our twins to the States from Australia when they were four

months old. They slept most of the 12 hour flight. They would wake up to be fed and go back to sleep. When we got on the plane people were looking at us like oh no two babies. As people were getting off we got heaps of compliments about how good and quite they were. We went with Air New Zealand, there wont be much chance you’ll go with them though. Don’t do it if you ever do though. We were promised two beds on both flights and never got them. One bed they shared on the way there. On the way back they couldn’t both fit in the one bed. They gave our other bed to a woman whose child didn’t even meet the weight requirement. They never offered to help with the babies. The whole flight was the pits. It was the worst service I’ve ever experienced on an international flight, and I’ve been on several. Our babies cost 10% on the international flight and I think they were free on domestic. Before you buy.

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My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

I don’t know if Lufthansa flies that route, but I’ll share a story from an earlier oversease flight I took with them. The man in line ahead of me had his leg completely immobilized in a plaster cast. He had asked his TA for a bulkhead, but on boarding the plane, the FA’s insisted that he had to change seats because "this is the BABY row". "But I can’t bend my knee and I have doctor’s orders and my TA confirmed it, etc…" "NO SIR, This is the BABY row." Sure enough, a couple of infants came on board (with parents, natch,) and they hung a bassinet on the wall of the bulkhead, and also strung another one up like a hammock, sort of. Those babies got more attention than all of us combined. I said then and there that in my next life, I want to come back as a baby flying on Lufthansa.. Katherine Becker "As god is my witness I thought turkeys could fly" NEVER SEND A FERRET TO DO A WEASEL’s JOB –WKRP

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I flew with my kiddo at 5 months and 17 months and three years, and it was all very smooth. She was an angel, slept a lot and charmed the people around her when she wasn’t asleep. Funny thing though…those biased people always changed seats as quickly as possible the minute they saw me with a baby, so we always had an extra seat even though we didn’t pay for it. It was comic, even, how on the day before Thanksgiving I flew on a "full" airplane yet two seats magically appeared on either side!

Not necessarily biased — could have just been thoughtful. I often move just to give the family more space…. Katherine Becker "As god is my witness I thought turkeys could fly" NEVER SEND A FERRET TO DO A WEASEL’s JOB –WKRP

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writes My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

I can’t advise on the airlines, but just a reminder not to forget to have the baby properly documented! I don’t know what nationality you (and the baby) are, but if the baby was British it would need its own passport — when the rules were changed recently so that children can’t be added to their parent’s passport, we had news items on three-day old babies being photographed for their passport. As far as I can tell, one new-born baby looks much like another, but there’s no accounting for bureaucracy… — Arwel Parry http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

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In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us. I don’t know if Lufthansa flies that route, but I’ll share a story from an earlier oversease flight I took with them. The man in line ahead of me had his leg completely immobilized in a plaster cast. He had asked his TA for a bulkhead, but on boarding the plane, the FA’s insisted that he had to change seats because "this is the BABY row". "But I can’t bend my knee and I have doctor’s orders and my TA confirmed it, etc…" "NO SIR, This is the BABY row." Sure enough, a couple of infants came on board (with parents, natch,) and they hung a bassinet on the wall of the bulkhead, and also strung another one up like a hammock, sort of. Those babies got more attention than all of us combined. I said then and there that in my next life, I want to come back as a baby flying on Lufthansa..

Everyone should get to be a baby once in his/her life. I encourage you to demand a turn. — <www.worldtable.com Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000

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Why? Is the infant going to enjoy the trip?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What nonsense – take the child!!

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I don’t know if Lufthansa flies that route, but I’ll share a story from an earlier oversease flight I took with them. The man in line ahead of me had his leg completely immobilized in a plaster cast. He had asked his TA for a bulkhead, but on boarding the plane, the FA’s insisted that he had to change seats because "this is the BABY row". "But I can’t bend my knee and I have doctor’s orders and my TA confirmed it, etc…" "NO SIR, This is the BABY row." Sure enough, a couple of infants came on board (with parents, natch,) and they hung a bassinet on the wall of the bulkhead, and also strung another one up like a hammock, sort of. Those babies got more attention than all of us combined. I said then and there that in my next life, I want to come back as a baby flying on Lufthansa..

I must remember never to fly Lufthansa in future. Tom

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we had news items on three-day old babies being photographed for their passport. As far as I can tell, one new-born baby looks much like another, but there’s no accounting for bureaucracy… — Arwel Parry http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

Yep, that’s right. We had to get our son his own passport. He was 5 weeks old and you can definately see its him. He’s gonna love it when he’s 5 years old. Mary Ann

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I’m totally the herbal mama, but I use dimetapp for my kiddo when we fly. Yes, it does "drug" her a little, but the *real* purpose of it is to keep her sinuses and ears clear so she doesn’t feel so much pain on takeoff and landing. Specifically get a decongestant/antihistimine, not just an antihistimine! (the antihistimine is the sleepy-making stuff.) The other thing is to be sure to nurse/feed a bottle on takeoff and landing as well. We always nursed takeoffs and landings and never had a problem. Helps the ears "pop" and not hurt. I flew with my kiddo at 5 months and 17 months and three years, and it was all very smooth. She was an angel, slept a lot and charmed the people around her when she wasn’t asleep. Funny thing though…those biased people always changed seats as quickly as possible the minute they saw me with a baby, so we always had an extra seat even though we didn’t pay for it. It was comic, even, how on the day before Thanksgiving I flew on a "full" airplane yet two seats magically appeared on either side!

Cold medication. Don’t think my wife would like the idea. But I’ll keep a bottle handle just in case. Anyone in particular is recommended? TIA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? Yes, as a matter of fact, nine months is a little old. When my son was seven months, he was great on a plane. In May he was 20 months, we traveled to FRA. More difficult. But still worth the effort 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? They are all about the same. Remember to request bulkhead seating, ask for a bassinette, and remember to ask for an infant meal 3) Costs? At least in the US it is 10% of the adult fare plus tax. My cost for an infant ticket to FRA was about $100 4) Are there things we should be careful? Nothing wrong with a little cold medication prior to boarding.

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: My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. : We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby : with us. I just wonder: : 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? The earlier the better. What I mean is that for such a long flight, younger babies are more easily entertained. Worst is about 18 – 24 months. : 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? Not United! : 3) Costs? About 10% of an adult ticket. Depends on the airline. : 4) Are there things we should be careful? For nursinb babies it is pretty easy. Larry

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: Really if you can, leave the baby behind with relatives or friends and go : and enjoy your trip. This guy must be single! Traveling with infants is quite easy. If you are already accustomed to toting him around, you will have a wonderful time. : The bassinette was wonderful, our : friends drugged the little tyke with some cold meds and he slept for most of : the flight. Oh, please! If you are nursing, the only "drug" you will need is momma’s milk.! Have fun. Larry

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My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby?

9 months is not a small baby. 2 weeks is a small baby. 9 months is a reasonable age baby. 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs?

Don’t know – costs depend on whether you get a separate seat for him or her. 4) Are there things we should be careful?

Since you have posted to the bf groups, you probably don’t have to worry about heating up food. Try to nurse the child on take-off and landing to help his/her ears to equalize. If you can afford it, a separate seat would be nice because otherwise it is hard to hold the child that long. grandma Rosalie

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My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby?

Not from my point of view. I recommend Federal Express overnight delivery. 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby?

The one I am not on. 3) Costs?

I sincerely hope it is cost prohibitive. 4) Are there things we should be careful?

Babies do not like air travel. It hurts their eardrums, and they are not used to the sudden falling sensations that severe air turbulence can cause. They respond by screaming. As parents, you are immune to their screams, and in fact, you seem to like them. As a person who has so far chosen not to inflict my desire to reproduce on the rest of the world, I (and people like me) am extraordinarily sensitive to their screams of pain and fear, and we don’t like it very much. We also don’t like the fact that our right to be where the screaming is not has been taken from us by your selfish desire to show your little monster off to its adoring grandparents. Send photos instead. So you should be careful that we don’t punch you in the mouth for making us live with your reproductive choices. TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

You are very welcome. As Mark Twain said, "Children should be kept in a barrel and fed through the hole until their 17th birthday, at which time the hole should be sealed up," or words to that effect. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

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Travelling with a 9-month-old is pretty good – they’re old enough to be cute & smiley & charm everyone, but young enough not to be charging up & down the plane annoying everyone else & worrying you. We travelled recently with Continental, cross-Atlantic & US-Canada, & I would *not* recommend them. I don’t think they could have been less helpful if they’d tried. Costs vary with the airline, when you’re travelling, whether you buy a seat for the baby or not. A good travel agent should be able to advise. You may find that it works out cheaper to buy slightly more expensive adult tickets if the infant’s ticket is cheaper; add it all up before booking. Since you’re posting to bf ngs, I assume your wife is still bfing, & the biggest tip I could give would be to keep that up. It will greatly ease the travelling, & the settling in, & infant formula is different in Europe & US, whereas the breastmilk will be the same wherever…. Deborah

: My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. : We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby : with us. I just wonder: : : 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? : 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? : 3) Costs? : 4) Are there things we should be careful? : : TIA to those who would share their experience with us. : : :

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This is so inaccurate that I had to respond: 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? They are all about the same. Remember to request bulkhead seating, ask for a bassinette, and remember to ask for an infant meal

There are HUGE differences. We did a little research before booking our flight from the US to Israel. There were several options, including American and European airlines. We chose Lufthansa and were VERY pleased. The major criterion was the ability to guarantee a bassinet. Air Canada, for example, told us they don’t have them. Continental would put a request for one, but not guarantee it. Lufthansa guaranteed it, including the pre-assigned bulkhead seats. It’s a MAJOR difference on a long flight: our infant, then 5 months, was able to sleep through most of the flight, thus letting his parents get some rest (and making it easier for the rest of the world, e.g. Bill Mattocks). Also, Lufthansa blocked a seat for our baby. We only bought two seats for ourselves, but as the infant was listed on our itinerary, they blocked a seat for him. This seat was ours whenever it was available (meaning that it’s only taken when the aircraft if completely full). United has done the same. USAir did not. Check with your airline. We were also very pleased with the LH staff, both on the ground and in-flight. They have toys for children which they distribute before take-off, they seem to feed children first, they will even take (older) children for cockpit visits. Not all airlines are the same. 3) Costs? At least in the US it is 10% of the adult fare plus tax. My cost for an infant ticket to FRA was about $100

Not accurate. On domestic flights in the US infants up to two years old usually fly free when no seat is bought for them. On Int’l flights it’s usually 10%. However, it is also possible to buy a seat for the infant, for a reduced fare: it can be 50%, 67% or 75% of the adult fare. It all depends on the fare rules for the tickets you’re buying. It is highly recommended to purchase a seat for the infant if you can afford it: the safest place for him/her during take-off, landing and turbulence is in a car seat, not in the bassinet. 4) Are there things we should be careful? Nothing wrong with a little cold medication prior to boarding.

As was mentioned before, several things can be wrong with administering unnecessary drugs to infants. It’s a very personal thing, and I wouldn’t have done it (nor have I ever found it necessary. And Tomer never screamed on the 8 flights he took in his one year of life). In addition to the tips given elsewhere: make sure you know your baby: what s/he likes, how to entertain him/her, comfort him/her etc. Have a bottle of water or a pacifier ready. Sometimes, infants find it harder than adults to get used to the air pressure changes. Having something to suck on reduces the inconvenience. We love traveling with our baby, and he seems to enjoy it too. Be considerate to other passengers, and enjoy your trip. — Shuly Wintner Institute for Research in Cognitive Science, University of Pennsylvania 3401 Walnut Street, Suite 400A, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228 Tel: +1 (215) 898-0326 Fax: +1 (215) 573-9247

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Just do your normal routine (where possible). Children handle jet lag better than adults, lots of toys to play with – the bassinette may be on the snug side for a 9 month old. Get plenty of blankets and pillows from the crew to snuggle them in. Also ask them what arrangements they have for meals – if there is a choice make sure you request it. Most airlines will serve one parent early on and allow the second to eat when the first has finished – if you don’t ask for the meal the choice may be gone. We took a 6 monther a 4 year old and a 6 year old MAN – KUL – AKL -KUL – SIN LKW – KUL – MAN and didn’t have any major problems (other than the 6 year old becoming addicted to Super Mario – thanks Malaysian Airlines!) You pram – try to keep till the gate and ask them to keep it in the cabin so you get it on arrival. Cold medication? Some parents attempt to dope their children by giving antihistamines or sedatives. There is no need – keep their routine. There is more chance of them fighting the medication and becoming very unsettled! Ian (Lecturer in Child Health Nursing, Leeds) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cold medication. Don’t think my wife would like the idea. But I’ll keep a bottle handle just in case. Anyone in particular is recommended? TIA 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? Yes, as a matter of fact, nine months is a little old. When my son was seven months, he was great on a plane. In May he was 20 months, we traveled to FRA. More difficult. But still worth the effort 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? They are all about the same. Remember to request bulkhead seating, ask for a bassinette, and remember to ask for an infant meal 3) Costs? At least in the US it is 10% of the adult fare plus tax. My cost for an infant ticket to FRA was about $100 4) Are there things we should be careful? Nothing wrong with a little cold medication prior to boarding.

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What nonsense – take the child!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really if you can, leave the baby behind with relatives or friends and go and enjoy your trip. But if baby must go, a nonstop flight would be best. Only nonstop flights I know of from Milan to Boston are on Alitalia, so check with them first. Also, we travelled to Italy a few years ago and our friends brought their 10 month old, we flew Air France on an A340 and there were bulkhead seats with infant bassinettes that bolted into the bottom of the overhead luggage compartments. The bassinette was wonderful, our friends drugged the little tyke with some cold meds and he slept for most of the flight. I would call Alitalia and ask what equipment they fly and if that is an option, I beleive they fly Boeing 767s, and see if you can reserve those type of seats. Though since you haven’t gotten any airline reservations yet, you will find most of the flights booked up since that is high season travel. Good luck finding flights, you may have to take what you can get at this late date. Oh, and by the way our friends baby had a great time in Italy and probably adjusted to the time change better than us adults. For Boston, I was just there last week on a business trip, I go quite frequently. Costs are no more than any other major US city and crime would be on the average too. Just use the same precautions as you would in Milan or Rome and you’ll be just fine. The only thing I can think of to really warn you about is the traffic in Boston is horrible, the roads are under constant construction. I’m from Washington, DC and we complain about our traffic but its a walk in the park compared to Boston. Bon Viaggio, Mike My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

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My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

I don’t see anything that unadvisable in terms of travelling with such a small baby. I travelled when I was several months old from my place of birth (U.S.A.) to my actual home (Ghana). I was about 6 months old or so. C

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Cold medication. Don’t think my wife would like the idea. But I’ll keep a bottle handle just in case. Anyone in particular is recommended? TIA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? Yes, as a matter of fact, nine months is a little old. When my son was seven months, he was great on a plane. In May he was 20 months, we traveled to FRA. More difficult. But still worth the effort 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? They are all about the same. Remember to request bulkhead seating, ask for a bassinette, and remember to ask for an infant meal 3) Costs? At least in the US it is 10% of the adult fare plus tax. My cost for an infant ticket to FRA was about $100 4) Are there things we should be careful? Nothing wrong with a little cold medication prior to boarding.

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1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby?

Yes, as a matter of fact, nine months is a little old. When my son was seven months, he was great on a plane. In May he was 20 months, we traveled to FRA. More difficult. But still worth the effort 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby?

They are all about the same. Remember to request bulkhead seating, ask for a bassinette, and remember to ask for an infant meal 3) Costs?

At least in the US it is 10% of the adult fare plus tax. My cost for an infant ticket to FRA was about $100 4) Are there things we should be careful?

Nothing wrong with a little cold medication prior to boarding.

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Hi, We travel long distance a lot with small kids and use Singapore Airlines. Very good with kids. Make sure to book a bassinet in advance!!. I know they go to NY from Amsterdam , but can connect with Star Alliance airlines. Ciao Kieran www.okfred.com "TravelWithoutMaps" CHECK US OUT! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

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Really if you can, leave the baby behind with relatives or friends and go and enjoy your trip. But if baby must go, a nonstop flight would be best. Only nonstop flights I know of from Milan to Boston are on Alitalia, so check with them first. Also, we travelled to Italy a few years ago and our friends brought their 10 month old, we flew Air France on an A340 and there were bulkhead seats with infant bassinettes that bolted into the bottom of the overhead luggage compartments. The bassinette was wonderful, our friends drugged the little tyke with some cold meds and he slept for most of the flight. I would call Alitalia and ask what equipment they fly and if that is an option, I beleive they fly Boeing 767s, and see if you can reserve those type of seats. Though since you haven’t gotten any airline reservations yet, you will find most of the flights booked up since that is high season travel. Good luck finding flights, you may have to take what you can get at this late date. Oh, and by the way our friends baby had a great time in Italy and probably adjusted to the time change better than us adults. For Boston, I was just there last week on a business trip, I go quite frequently. Costs are no more than any other major US city and crime would be on the average too. Just use the same precautions as you would in Milan or Rome and you’ll be just fine. The only thing I can think of to really warn you about is the traffic in Boston is horrible, the roads are under constant construction. I’m from Washington, DC and we complain about our traffic but its a walk in the park compared to Boston. Bon Viaggio, Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

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My wife and I will be travelling to Boston from Milan Italy this August. We’ll stay in the US for a week. We are going to bring our 9-month old baby with us. I just wonder: 1) Is it advisable to travel with such a small baby? 2) What airline offers the best service for a small baby? 3) Costs? 4) Are there things we should be careful? TIA to those who would share their experience with us.

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Question:

Hey guys, Before rehab will approve college for me, I need to get in three informational interviews. I need to interview people who are in the type of jobs that the degree would be useful for. What I’m looking at, is a 2 year degree in Business Information Systems. It’s heavy on accounting, computer programming languages, and technical writing. I need to find out find out what the minimum qualifications are, what skills and abilities are necessary, what are the typical duties, how people get hired into the company, that kind of thing. I have two interviews lined up for tomorrow, and the counselor said I could do some of the interviews online, so if anyone wants to let me "interview" them, drop me an email. I’ll need a name and job title, so if anyone is reluctant to pass that on via email, keep that in mind. Thanks,

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Before rehab will approve college for me, I need to get in three informational interviews. I need to interview people who are in the type of jobs that the degree would be useful for.

I can’t help you in this field but just wanted to say it sounds like a very good idea to talk to people in the fields you are interested in. Good luck with your interviews. Keep us posted. Sarah L "The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much? On an Si? 195R60 Wouldn’t it be better to go with a 195/55-14? It would give the advantage of the 195 width, while having a shorter sidewall for better handling. The speedo with the 195/55 is 1.29% fast while it is 2.07% slow with the 195/60. Not much difference either way, so why not go with the 195/55 and shave 4/10" of an inch off of the sidewall height? There are three tires available right now in 195/55-14: Bridgestone Potenza RE71 Dunlop SP Sport 8000 Dunlop SP Sport D40 M2

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What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much? On an Si? 195R60

Wouldn’t it be better to go with a 195/55-14? It would give the advantage of the 195 width, while having a shorter sidewall for better handling. The speedo with the 195/55 is 1.29% fast while it is 2.07% slow with the 195/60. Not much difference either way, so why not go with the 195/55 and shave 4/10" of an inch off of the sidewall height? There are three tires available right now in 195/55-14: Bridgestone Potenza RE71 Dunlop SP Sport 8000 Dunlop SP Sport D40 M2 John John Frost yoshimx5 (at) maplecity.com Current: ‘98 Prelude SportShift Previous: ‘93 Accord LX ‘90 Integra LS ‘84 CRX 1.5

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Wouldn’t it be better to go with a 195/55-14? It would give the advantage of the 195 width, while having a shorter sidewall for better handling.

That is all true, but remember that the stock wheels are only 5" wide. You need at least 6" wide to do those tires justice. There are three tires available right now in 195/55-14: Bridgestone Potenza RE71 Dunlop SP Sport 8000 Dunlop SP Sport D40 M2

– Mike Kohlbrenner <kohlbren (-a t-) an dot hp dot com sorry!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … You CAN get away with a 195-60, but it isn’t something _I_ would want to do — 5" is already narrow for the 185-60 size that came stock. Works fine for me, and that is the way it has been for many years…. I will admit that getting the 195R60’s on the rims is difficult, however. But once there, they work fine, and very reliabile. I’m sure they work fine, but I am mostly concerned with getting my money’s worth out of my tires in CORNERING. A 185/60/14 on a five inch wheel already has that classic Honda angled sidewall look: / /

Hmm, well, mine doesn’t look quite that bad A 195 on the same 5" wheels will be even worse and I can’t imagine the benefit in cornering to be that great over the 185 to justify the added expense and what I would consider to be an adverse effect on rolling diameter. Obviously, with your supercharger, you have a different set of issues to deal with than I. The 195s, even on a 5" wide wheel, probably help your straight ahead traction more than they improve your cornering, so they are justifiable on that basis.

Exactly- I was just about to say that. It doesn’t help with cornering, but I need all the rubber I can get- I can spin the wheels pretty easily. I know, I know, I really need wider rims and yet MORE tire, but I like the stock rims and I really don’t want to spend mega-bucks on larger ones (not yet, at least) That has to be my number one complaint about Honda’s equipment specification — their wheels are always about an inch narrower than they should be.

Agreed, I think on the Si models, they should have used wider rims. 5" is definitely too narrow for a 205 of any aspect ratio. Agreed I did see a guy mount 205s on 4-1/2" wide wheels once. I just wouldn’t recommend it…

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What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much? I think the more appropriate question would be: What is the widest tire you want to strangle on the stupid 5" wide wheels that Honda used on this car? You CAN get away with a 195-60, but it isn’t something _I_ would want to do — 5" is already narrow for the 185-60 size that came stock.

Works fine for me, and that is the way it has been for many years…. I will admit that getting the 195R60’s on the rims is difficult, however. But once there, they work fine, and very reliabile. 5" is definitely too narrow for a 205 of any aspect ratio.

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… You CAN get away with a 195-60, but it isn’t something _I_ would want to do — 5" is already narrow for the 185-60 size that came stock. Works fine for me, and that is the way it has been for many years…. I will admit that getting the 195R60’s on the rims is difficult, however. But once there, they work fine, and very reliabile.

I’m sure they work fine, but I am mostly concerned with getting my money’s worth out of my tires in CORNERING. A 185/60/14 on a five inch wheel already has that classic Honda angled sidewall look: / / A 195 on the same 5" wheels will be even worse and I can’t imagine the benefit in cornering to be that great over the 185 to justify the added expense and what I would consider to be an adverse effect on rolling diameter. Obviously, with your supercharger, you have a different set of issues to deal with than I. The 195s, even on a 5" wide wheel, probably help your straight ahead traction more than they improve your cornering, so they are justifiable on that basis. That has to be my number one complaint about Honda’s equipment specification — their wheels are always about an inch narrower than they should be. 5" is definitely too narrow for a 205 of any aspect ratio. Agreed

I did see a guy mount 205s on 4-1/2" wide wheels once. I just wouldn’t recommend it… — Mike Kohlbrenner <kohlbren (-a t-) an dot hp dot com sorry!

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(JasonCRX) writes: What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much? Jason

I’ve got 215/40-16’s on my ‘89 CRX. The outside diameter might be a slight bit larger than the stock 185/60-14’s, but it doesn’t seem to affect my speedometer much, since I still don’t have any problems with the cops. 205/40-16s actually came the closest to the stock tire diameter when I did the math. Somebody gave me the formula a long time ago, but I don’t know it anymore. Maybe somebody could refresh my memory as well as teach you something by telling us the formula again. I know that it had something to do with the wheel diameter and the size of the sidewall though. Scott Zane 1989 Honda CRX Si Concept Neeper, Pioneer, Kicker To reply by email, remove the "nospam" from my address

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What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much?

Response:

What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much?

I think the more appropriate question would be: What is the widest tire you want to strangle on the stupid 5" wide wheels that Honda used on this car? You CAN get away with a 195-60, but it isn’t something _I_ would want to do — 5" is already narrow for the 185-60 size that came stock. 5" is definitely too narrow for a 205 of any aspect ratio. What are you after? Better handling? Looks? If you want better handling and want to keep the stock alloys, just go get a good 185/60/14 tire. I find the Yoko A509 in that size to work very well for the money on the Si (I have a ‘90 Civic Si). I would love to get the Dunlop SP8000 in the 195/55/14 size, but I can’t bring myself to mount such a tire on a 5" wide wheel — it would be a waste of good rubber. If you are after looks — I can’t help you there — my Civic Si looks like crap with its no-plastic-wheel-covers black steel wheels… — Mike Kohlbrenner <kohlbren (-a t-) an dot hp dot com sorry!

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What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much? Jason

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What’s the rim diameter? That years regular wheels were 13 and the Si’s were 14. If you have 14’s you can go to the integra sized tires (185/60R14 to 195/60R14) with approx. -3% change to your speedo so watch out for those speed traps (that’s 82 to 85 for you metric people out there). Calculators are on just about every tire retailer on the net. However, if you’re serious get bigger rims and keep your standard diameter. You’ll be happier with the handling. Cheers, Gus — Gus Cheng Software Metrics – A Microsoft Solution Provider Partner Creators of Printer Accounting Server(TM) http://www.metrics.com/Products/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much? Jason

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: What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the : speedometer much? : Jason I have tank treads on my del Sol Cummins Turbodiesel and the speedo is accurate up until about 80 MPH. At 180 MPH, I’m about 15-17% off. obscured image

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Why are you so concerned about the speedometer? Do you drive at the exact legal limit? Forget about the speedometer. Just put on the tires that you like. In case you want to check the speed difference between your old tires and the ones you want to get, check out this page: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/6579/SpeedCalculator.html Note: it only display in integers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the largest width you can put on the stock alloys without affecting the speedometer much? Jason

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Question:

A relative and I are considering a startup practice. Is there anyone out there who has recently begun a busines that could help me with the following: 1) Proper forms to file to ensure that we can legally operate (don’t want any surprises). 2) Suggestions for untapped market niches. Although we are planning to begin small, part-time, performing tax and bookeeping services for individuals and perhaps some small businesses we are already familiar with, I’m sure there are some areas the big dogs haven’t already eaten up. 3) Electronic-filing software suggestions, personal and client software suggestions. Matt Doran

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Big untapped market in preparing fuel tax returns for truckers, although it’s pretty boring. I used to be a fuel tax auditor. With the implementation of a national fuel tax reporting system, some of the truckers are just really confused. But it’s definitely not like other accounting services, but if you can do it right, there’s lots of opportunity there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A relative and I are considering a startup practice. Is there anyone out there who has recently begun a busines that could help me with the following: 1) Proper forms to file to ensure that we can legally operate (don’t want any surprises). 2) Suggestions for untapped market niches. Although we are planning to begin small, part-time, performing tax and bookeeping services for individuals and perhaps some small businesses we are already familiar with, I’m sure there are some areas the big dogs haven’t already eaten up. 3) Electronic-filing software suggestions, personal and client software suggestions. Matt Doran

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would greatly appreciate if someone can give me some suggestion about the best way to obtain my CPA certification. I have been working for a medium size corporation as the Controller for last 9 years. I have passed CPA exam recently. As per Texas State Board of Public Accountancy I must have one year experience under the direct supervision of a CPA prior to applying for the official CPA certification. I even can’t use the title CPA until a certificate number is issued to me. I worked under a CPA 9 years ago and I can’t locate him now. I am very happy with my present employment. A CPA certification will definately improve my position within this company and will help me earn a competetive edge while negotiating with outside parties for my employer.. My 12 years of hands on experience in all areas of accounting and taxes including non-routine type tasks, decision making functions has prepared me to handle very complex accounting, tax and business matters in very effectiive and efficient manners. Unfortinately this is not going to count towards my experience requirement because I did not have a CPA boss within the corporation. I wonder how I can fullfil this one year experience requirement under a direct supervision of a CPA without leaving my present job. Should I ask my employer to hire a CPA above me? Or is it worth it to leave my well paid job and find another job where I can work under a CPA? Thank you for your time.

ZREZA In Nevada, where I first studied accounting, several of my co-students were working full time and received at least some credit for working with the firms CPA doing prep work for the annual audit. GARY

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I would greatly appreciate if someone can give me some suggestion about the best way to obtain my CPA certification. I have been working for a medium size corporation as the Controller for last 9 years. I have passed CPA exam recently. As per Texas State Board of Public Accountancy I must have one year experience under the direct supervision of a CPA prior to applying for the official CPA certification.

Some states allow part time work to count towards your experience requirement (it would take more than a year). If there is any way you can work around your current job, you might be able to manage it. It might be challenging, but it’s a possibility. Otherwise, the only other option I can think of is to leave your current job. I would imagine that someone of your experience who also was a CPA could get a great job, but I know that it would be difficult to leave your current job. I wish you luck. "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." – Albert Einstein

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Question:

Well, being in the computer industry, I have seen some situations like this… The programmers and testers all work 8 hours a day …ANYTIME during that day.. wear jeans and t-shirts, play network games at night, *live* on junk food ….etc..etc.. Yet some one the departments are 8-5 M-F suits. They seem to hate the creative over-achieving misfits that make their jobs possible =) heh ’nuff said. -Mike

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be brilliant or the most loose ends company ever. I think I want non-ADD folks in accounting… just to make sure I’m paid on time…

no doubt, i actually had a job in accounting for genera a numberof years ago. at that time they were woefully understaffed. can you imagine working 7 days a week, 10-13 hours a day putting little numbers in little boxes?! BEFORE you know you have add? i was really trying to concentrate, and meditating during breaks to help with focusing, and having to take a bus for 45 min to work, and the 8 month pregnant manager trying to set me up with one of the co-workers (she was cute though-although i’m white and she was black and i come from a small city thats virtually all white, and at that time i only knew like 2 black people, and that was years earlier…anyway back to the story) and sitting there with these books that have those transperent pages and mild blue lettering and a pencil/pen (can’t remember) putting these LITTLE NUMBERS FROM ONE BOOK INTO LITTLE BOXES IN ANOTHER BOOK??? i lasted about a week before i got fired. you should have seen the mistakes i was making! it was ok though, cause i made enough in that one week to live for 2 months without working.

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This has been a light hearted semi-humourous thread, but wait a minute. This concept seems to be a valuable idea. In some larger city, a group of add people could form an economic activity maybe in the form of a co-operative. It could be a small venture, even part time for each, maybe something sales oriented like a second hand computer supplies store, a real estate firm, an environmental project like a micro-hydro project, or writing a computer program etc. As we know lots of american companies have been treating employees poorly enough as it is, then they go downsizing and hiring temps, and whole ranges of other cheap and devious behaviours. With "globalization", these attitudes are being adopted in other first world countries. This leaves the vision statements from these companies reeking with hypocrisy, but well it was 10-12 years ago that phony vision statements were a fad. People with any sort of non- standard characteristics are even treated worse than than this. …and I would be sure that some add people can found to see to the acounts and write cheques on time..

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Question:

) writes:

(professing his faith in "HIV", which, like God, there is only indirect evidence for) We’re far beyond that point. We now even have the three-dimensional structures defined:

Defining the 3D structure of a protein doesn’t tell you anything about where the protein came from or if it is indeed part of a viral particle (you know, that one that they cannot purify completely, the one that has about 30 or so human proteins associated with it after purification). The source of their "p24" (aka, capsid) is not given, but rest assured it was not from any culture of "HIV" (the gold standard source of material). They undoubtedly have used a cloned sequence that someone told them was from "HIV", mainly for practical reasons, since you could never get enough pure "HIV" from any culture to do structure studies of individual proteins. I wonder what 3D structures they would find if they used proteins produced from all the variant sequences of p24? Now that would be an interesting study. I would bet some of them don’t fold into any kind of recognizable structure, which would make you wonder how all these "p24’s" do whatever they’re supposed to do, in spite of the claims made about them. Also, a note on the uniqueness of p24–many "HIV-" pregnant women have a p24 antigen in their placenta around the time of birth. So much for p24 being synonymous with "infection" or belonging solely to the "HIV". Todd Miller, PhD

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Also, a note on the uniqueness of p24–many "HIV-" pregnant women have a p24 antigen in their placenta around the time of birth. So much for p24 being synonymous with "infection" or belonging solely to the "HIV". Todd Miller, PhD

You are careful to call it *a* p24 antigen, not *the* p24 antigen. In as much as the designation p24 refers only to the size of a protein, perhaps you could provide some information on the degree or relatedness and cross reactivity of placental p24 from HIV uninfected (seronegative) mothers and assays for the p24 antigen of HIV.

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"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? [...] Some retroviruses grow well in culture, some don’t. However, molecular biology allows much to be done with small amounts of virus. As I have said above, complete sequences of the RNA has been accomplished and sequences of individual genes have been used to demonstrate transmission. I don’t know what "proper isolation" refers to, but there is ample evidence that HIV exists, is associated with AIDS, and elimination of HIV improves the health of AIDS patients (which is why viral lode is a good prognostic indicator).

All of which is a long-winded way of admitting you don’t understand why proper isolation matters. And if you won’t read, and aren’t prepared to educate yourself, what more can be done to help you? John — "In going back to the origins of HIV virology and telling the HIV story, a view will be presented which will make clear that HIV itself, the very object of this Manhattan Project of modern medicine, does not exist." Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist.

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Duesberg doesn’t really have to say much, read jay Levy instead if these drugs do not assist CMI and boost CTLs then they are not much good since 1) most HIV RNA in plasma is non-infectious 2) HIV DNA cell to cell transmission is far more efficient (though only 1% cells replicating at any time) perhaps PIs have an antibiotic effect or make people feel "better" since they may reduce the CMI response, thereby reducing inflammation and unwell feelings that come from the immune system fighting multiple antigens perhaps the non-specific action on ALL aspartic protease is reducing other conditions which rely on this enzyme such as candida albicans and other fungal infections (antibiotic effect) however, if PIs affect the chemical messengers in such a way as to down regulate the CMI arm, or cause a reduction in CTLs much like AZT can potentially do (as can all nucleoside analogues), then this chemotherapy could be lowering immunity along with HIVs action on the IL2 and ultimately setting the user up for a big crash not to mention the potential liver toxicity in a population where 50% of HIV+ve people have alcohol or substance abuse problems stephen himself : [ ....mid-80's mantra: ] : : Attacking HIV makes people live longer. : Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is : still the best. : John : — : "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That : protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would : be my reaction." : Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War — STEPHEN |As it cracks apart in your faith|

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"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences. All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences. Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced. Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins). Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins. All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"?

Idiot. The following reference has been posted here many times: Unique Identifier 40100890 Data Source INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON AIDS Authors Krust B. Laurent AG. Hellio R. Montagnier L. Hovanessian AG. Institution Institut Pasteur, 25, rue du Dr. Roux 75724 Paris Cedex 15, France Title Different forms of p25 are associated with infectious and non infectious viral particles produced by HIV-1 infected cells. Source Int Conf AIDS. 6(2):316 (abstract no. 1008), 1990 Jun 20-23. Abstract OBJECTIVES: Four subspecies of p25, a, b, c and d, with related PI values, are produced by HIV-1 infected cells. The two forms a and b are in part incorporated into the HIV-1 virion, whereas species c and d along with a proportion of species a and b are expressed at the cell surface and also excreted. The characterization of these different forms is described here. METHODS: Cell culture supernatants of HIV-1 infected cells were fractionated by isopycnic centrifugation along a sucrose gradient, and the different fractions containing viral proteins were analyzed. RESULTS: Three major peaks containing the different subspecies of p25 were recovered: peak A at a sucrose density of 1.150 containing p25a, p25b, gp120, p68 and p55, peak B at a sucrose density of 1.080 containing the same proteins as peak A; peak C at a sucrose density of 1.050 containing p25 a, b, c, d and p40. Only peak A was infectious. Negative staining electron microscopy of the different fractions indicated the presence of particles of different sizes: 120 nm in peak A containing infectious virus; 20-50 nm in peaks B and C. CONCLUSION: Infectious and non infectious particles are produced by HIV-1 infected cells. The four species of p25 can be used as convenient markers to identify these particles. We’re far beyond that point. We now even have the three-dimensional structures defined: Structure of the Amino-Terminal Core Domain of the HIV-1 Capsid Protein Science, July 12th, 1996 Rossitza K. Gitti, * Brian M. Lee, * Jill Walker, Michael F. Summers, Sanghee Yoo, Wesley I. Sundquist The three-dimensional structure of the amino-terminal core domain (residues 1 through 151) of the human immunodeficiency virus-type 1 (HIV-1) capsid protein has been solved by multidimensional heteronuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The structure is unlike those of previously characterized viral coat proteins and is composed of seven helices, two hairpins, and an exposed partially ordered loop. The domain is shaped like an arrowhead, with the hairpins and loop exposed at the trailing edge and the carboxyl-terminal helix projecting from the tip. The proline residue Pro1 forms a salt bridge with a conserved, buried aspartate residue (Asp51), which suggests that the amino terminus of the protein rearranges upon proteolytic maturation. The binding site for cyclophilin A, a cellular rotamase that is packaged into the HIV-1 virion, is located on the exposed loop and encompasses the essential proline residue Pro90. In the free monomeric domain, Pro90 adopts kinetically trapped cis and trans conformations, raising the possibility that cyclophilin A catalyzes interconversion of the cis- and trans-Pro90 loop structures.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences. Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced. Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins). Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins. All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? It is surprising how many people don’t. (Antibodies made to an unverified "virus"? How would you know? You need to read Dr Taylor’s radio broadcast transcript. This is very basic stuff.) I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have done well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws. I tell you frankly that unless you are prepared to read and learn you will make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have so far. You cannot acquire knowledge by osmosis. Dissident web-sites are free, so your complaints on that score are as hollow as your beliefs.

I tell you frankly, john, that so long as you put your confidence in people who are so far behind the scientific times as to be living in the past you will continue to delude your self. Which is of course the goal of the exercise. HIV has been isolated, identified, purified, and characterized as well as it is possible to do for any microorganism. Its identity is accepted by international organizations on systematics (the branch of biology related to naming and classifying) whose job it is to review claims of "isolation" and which are not creatures of "HIV science". The standards of such groups have been met and they are the contemporary standards of the field, not some criteria proffered 20 years ago. The logic that because one man or group claims that if some additional proof — specifically a photo taken under certain conditions and appearing in a published journal — is not put forward then all other proofs will collapse is badly flawed. Indeed, even the criteria you assert as the sine qua non did not require publication in a peer reviewed journal. In as much as such photos have been taken, reported on and exhibited at an international meeting there the criteria you keep asserting are the only ones, those from the Institute Pasteur, have been met! It is time to give up the delusion that so long as the "Continuum prize" is unclaimed, HIV can be maintained not to exist.

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[..peep..peep..peep...] In any event, whether you are HIV-infected or not, you are a sad, tiresome person. I don’t like you but I feel at least I should offer you this perspective (which, I predict, you will reject). Please take it in the spirit of the last shred of good will I feel toward you as another human being rather than my typical animosity (which you may rest assured has not evaporated).

Dear Little Miss Chicken, If you ever stopped posting reams of abusive claptrap I would have to start worrying. At least while you are busy occupying your time producing elaborate (yet so feeble) insults you cannot also be misdirecting vulnerable people towards poisonous medical intervention. Good for them. (But probably bad for you.) John — Prof Duesberg, when explaining how AZT kills elements of the immune system most needed by immunocompromised people, was asked about its side effects: "Side effects? Side effects! It has no *side* effects. It has only one effect: it’s killing cells every single day you take it. That’s its effect." Interview on KEST AM radio, July 27 1995

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences. Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced. Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins). Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins. All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? It is surprising how many people don’t. (Antibodies made to an unverified "virus"? How would you know? You need to read Dr Taylor’s radio broadcast transcript. This is very basic stuff.)

Some retroviruses grow well in culture, some don’t. However, molecular biology allows much to be done with small amounts of virus. As I have said above, complete sequences of the RNA has been accomplished and sequences of individual genes have been used to demonstrate transmission. I don’t know what "proper isolation" refers to, but there is ample evidence that HIV exists, is associated with AIDS, and elimination of HIV improves the health of AIDS patients (which is why viral lode is a good prognostic indicator). Henry N Fox Chapel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have done well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws. I tell you frankly that unless you are prepared to read and learn you will make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have so far. You cannot acquire knowledge by osmosis. Dissident web-sites are free, so your complaints on that score are as hollow as your beliefs. John — "In going back to the origins of HIV virology and telling the HIV story, a view will be presented which will make clear that HIV itself, the very object of this Manhattan Project of modern medicine, does not exist." Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist.

Response:

"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences. Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced. Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins). Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins.

All of which is a long-winded way of admitting that you can’t find a reference to isolation of "HIV" either. So now the customary question we ask people stuffed with pompous delusions about what they "know" (or think they know) about "HIV", is whether you appreciate why it is important to achieve a proper isolation of the "virus"? It is surprising how many people don’t. (Antibodies made to an unverified "virus"? How would you know? You need to read Dr Taylor’s radio broadcast transcript. This is very basic stuff.) I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have done well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws.

I tell you frankly that unless you are prepared to read and learn you will make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have so far. You cannot acquire knowledge by osmosis. Dissident web-sites are free, so your complaints on that score are as hollow as your beliefs. John — "In going back to the origins of HIV virology and telling the HIV story, a view will be presented which will make clear that HIV itself, the very object of this Manhattan Project of modern medicine, does not exist." Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist.

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Following is the text version of a letter that was sent to the Director of NIH concerning his agency’s role in offering dissident AIDS scientists bribes to Cover-up the AIDS debate. For those who would like to learn more about the AIDS Cover-up, please visit the CENSORSHIP BYPASS web site at: http://www.kaiwan.com/~bypass July 11 , 1996 VIA FEDERAL EXPRESS Joel A. Schwartz 3463 State Street, #135 Santa Barbara, CA 93105 Dr. Harold E. Varmus Director, National Institutes of Health 1 Center Drive Bldg. #1, Room 126 Bethesda, MD 20892 (ph) 301-496-2433 Dear Dr. Varmus, As you know, for several years there has been a scientific debate over the cause of AIDS. A growing body of researchers are disputing the claim that HIV causes the AIDS epidemic, suggesting that something else may be the real cause. This debate has, of course, many far-reaching consequences. It throws into question the entire course of federal spending and policy in the War on AIDS, including the current treatments for AIDS. However, a new and larger issue is beginning to emerge from this controversy. A growing body of evidence indicates that governmental agencies, acting directly or through the Public Health lobby, have been attempting to hide the AIDS controversy from public knowledge. According to this evidence, various Public Health officials have used influence, bribery, and intimidation to silence dissent among scientists, in the communications media, and in other public forums. As the scandal of a government cover-up becomes public knowledge, taxpayers and voters are demanding a full accounting of the secret measures being used to silence dissent. I am writing on behalf of this growing movement. It has come to our attention that the National Institutes of Health (NIH) has been one of the participants in this cover-up. Specifically, testimony of Dr. Peter H. Duesberg, a virologist at the University of California at Berkeley and one of the dissenting scientists in this AIDS debate, has revealed that officials of the NIH have offered him compensation in return for recanting his position on AIDS. But Dr. Duesberg has so far refused to identify these officials or the exact terms of the offers. As director of the NIH, you bear full responsibility for extra-legal actions taken by your agency, and therefore, you owe the American public a full disclosure of the facts. For the record, I now call on you to provide the answers to the following questions: 1) On November 9, 1995, Dr. Duesberg gave sworn testimony [Deposition, case 95 Civ. 0157 (JES), Regnery and Duesberg v. Ellison, Federal District Court, Southern District of New York] that an official of the NIH visited him in late 1994 and made him an offer in exchange for his agreement to recant his views on AIDS. Dr. Duesberg confirmed the existence of this meeting in the book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" released this year (Regnery Publishing, Washington, D.C.), which lists him as the sole author. What was the exact date and place of that meeting? 2) What is the name of the NIH official with whom Dr. Duesberg met? 3) Who else was present at that meeting? 4) In Dr. Duesberg’s testimony, he stated that this NIH official handed him a letter declaring that HIV causes AIDS. On this letter were three names: Dr. Duesberg’s, and two others – one of whom he refers to as an "old friend." What were the names of these other signers? 5) Who authorized these NIH officials to make Dr. Duesberg this offer? Who else, in the government or elsewhere, was aware of this offer? 6) Dr. Duesberg has stated that, had he accepted the offer in full, the letter was to be published in "Nature" magazine. Dr. Duesberg has also mentioned "Nature" editor John Maddox as having been involved. Did John Maddox know about the offer, and the meeting, before they took place? Did Maddox agree to use his magazine as a forum to publish the letter? Which NIH officials were in contact with Maddox regarding this offer? Have you communicated with Maddox regarding this letter? If so, what did you and Maddox say? 7) Who actually wrote the letter? Please provide a copy of the complete letter. What, precisely, was Dr. Duesberg offered in return for signing the letter? 9) Precisely how long did Dr. Duesberg take to think over the offer? 10) What was Dr. Duesberg’s final answer to the offer? Did he accept any part of the offer? Did he make any counter-offers? 11) According to testimony we have received, Dr. Duesberg has privately admitted the existence of previous offers made to him by NIH officials in return for changing his position on AIDS. Written documents also suggest the existence of such offers. a) What were the exact dates and places of those meetings? b) What were the names of the persons who met with Dr. Duesberg at those times, or who helped arrange those meetings? c) Was Dr. Duesberg given letters to sign at any of those meetings? If so, please provide copies of each of those documents. d) Who authorized each of those offers? Who else was aware of those offers? e) What were the terms of each of those offers (what was Dr. Duesberg asked to do, and what was he promised in return)? f) How long did Dr. Duesberg take to make a decision on each of those offers? g) What was Dr. Duesberg’s answer to each of those offers? 12) Has the NIH offered Dr. Duesberg any such deals since 1994? 13) Has the NIH ever collaborated with Alfred Regnery (of Regnery Publishing), or any of his authors, agents or associates, on the AIDS issue? If so, what were the circumstances surrounding any such collaboration and what were the names (from both sides) of those involved? Certainly you must agree that the federal government cannot be allowed to censor this AIDS debate, or any other controversy, from public view. As a federal official overseeing much of the spending on AIDS research, you have a special responsibility to disclose all government attempts to suppress opposition. The public has a right to know. I therefore assume you will provide the above answers in a timely manner. Thank you. Sincerely, Joel A. Schwartz

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. Very well received by whom? The growing "Aids" dissident movement. Check out the list of scientists and others who support the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV Hypothesis of Aids. A partial list is on the newest Rethinking AIDS WebSite: http://www.xs4all.nl/~raido and is also currently posted to this group. Did you miss it?

The list contains the names of people who are dead and the names of people who no longer support the GSR. THE GROUP FOR THE SCIENTIFIC REAPPRAISAL OF THE HIV-AIDS HYPOTHESIS PEOPLE ON THE LIST WHO DIED FROM AIDS: Michael Callen (Author ‘Surviving AIDS’, Hollywood, CA) Caspar Schmidt, M.D. (Psychiatrist, New York) Jody Wells (Continuum, London, UK) PEOPLE ON THE LIST WHO NO LONGER SUPPORT THE GSR: James M. Scutero (New York, NY) There are probably more names that should not be on the list for the above cited reasons. I’ve asked to have my name taken off of the list several times to no avail. In May of 1995, I came back to the realization that HIV causes AIDS. A trip to the hospital with OI’s will do that. I find that facing reality is much better than living in denial. In 1989, when I was first diagnosed with HIV, I had a fighting spirit. When I allowed myself to be sucked into the "rethink" cottage industry of denial I felt miserable. I was ripped-off, threatened with violence and belittled by the members of the GSR. Free-thought is not encouraged by the nattering nabobs of nuttiness at the GSR. Their forums are censored and they espose hero worship. I feel great now that I have left them and will continue to live and think for myself. BTW, johnnydog, I didn’t see him on the list, but is Cass Mann still alive? Just curious. james m. scutero, original proponent of misc.health.aids the newsgroup of acquired immune deficiency syndromes o_) * ” _/ /( misc.health.aids homepage`- http://www.panix.com/~jscutero surfin’ with aids. * (hot ascii surfer)

Response:

Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is still the best. "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction." Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

The fact that you persist in making a fool of Duesberg by quoting this piece of immunologically-bankrupt tripe is a testament to your profound ignorance. People often develop antibodies to viruses yet still become ill. Either due to the pathological consequences of an unchecked infection and/or the sequelae of an aberrent, overactive immune response to the pathogen. John, if you are HIV+, you need some serious help. It is certainly your choice whether to do any therapies or not. But to try to justify the choice not to in the lame, half-assed way of making "pronouncements" the way you do smacks more of fear and denial than an understanding of the literature. As Dr. Holzman noted, you are more than entitled to your opinion. But it is weak and so full of holes if it were Swiss cheese you’d be hard-pressed to find the cheese. I think you need to slow down, take a break and look at your life. This is not meant to say "find the truth about drugs and start taking them." But rather realize that if there is HIV inside you, it may be doing you a great deal of harm–and there are many gentler, safer alternatives you might want to consider doing (even if they aren’t nearly as effective as the combinations of drugs). In any event, whether you are HIV-infected or not, you are a sad, tiresome person. I don’t like you but I feel at least I should offer you this perspective (which, I predict, you will reject). Please take it in the spirit of the last shred of good will I feel toward you as another human being rather than my typical animosity (which you may rest assured has not evaporated). George M. Carter

Response:

[ ....mid-80's mantra: ] Attacking HIV makes people live longer. Not so far.

Then you haven’t learned a damn thing here, have you ! Why are you so bitter towards the medical profession ? Do you just hate life? Were you rejected for medical school? There’s something you’re not telling us, JohnDogma !

Response:

"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago). Again I suggest you need to familiarise yourself with the literature. All you are doing is demonstrating an obvious ignorance of the issues.

stupid…stupid…stupid… You’ve basically alienated yourself from everyone on this newsgroup ! Drugs which attach HIV make people live longer. Ignorance is not an adequate description of your actions any more.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: [...] He and I have isolated many retroviruses in the lab (the quantity was so high that you could actually see the banded virus in surcrose gels without the aid of a microscope). It was easy to visualize the proteins and enzymatic activities. The RNA has been isolated, copied into cDNA, and sequenced on many strains. Electron micrographs of the virus has been puclished countless time Where, when, by whom? Where is an EM of "HIV" prepared to the standard required by virologists such as Stefan Lanka, and the scientific team in Perth? And Dr Todd Miller. The kind that would demonstrate isolation. There’s a cash reward for that information. I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago). James Scutero had a quote from "the virus" in his .sig for a while last year. Did it talk to you too? You would have been better off listening to Professor Duesberg. His AIDS theory is intellectually dishonest. Its a joke. On the subject of dishonesty, just provide the reference to the full isolation of "HIV", the virus you claim to have seen. Anyone who doubts the existance of the virus is incredibly ignorant or stupid. Retroviruses have been studied at various levels since the beginning if this century! Wake up. Dr Turner is neither ignorant nor stupid, to judge by his work. And it is a particular virus we are interested in, not viruses in general. Again I suggest you need to familiarise yourself with the literature. All you are doing is demonstrating an obvious ignorance of the issues. John

John, The literature is full of complete HIV sequences. Genes from countless strains have been isolated and sequenced. Antibodies have been made to HIV without even isolating it (by making antibodies to the synthetic peptides of the predicted sequence of the proteins). Protease inhibitors as well as integrase inhibitors have been made against other proteins. The scientific literature is very clear. I haven’t read the garbage that you cite, but I’m sure the authors have down well financially, peddling the trash to unfortunate people who are grasping at straws. Henry N Fox Chapel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — "They have not proven that they have actually detected a unique exogenous retrovirus. The critical data to support that idea have not been presented." Prof. J Papadimitriou, Univ of W.Australia

Response:

"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: [...] He and I have isolated many retroviruses in the lab (the quantity was so high that you could actually see the banded virus in surcrose gels without the aid of a microscope). It was easy to visualize the proteins and enzymatic activities. The RNA has been isolated, copied into cDNA, and sequenced on many strains. Electron micrographs of the virus has been puclished countless time

Where, when, by whom? Where is an EM of "HIV" prepared to the standard required by virologists such as Stefan Lanka, and the scientific team in Perth? And Dr Todd Miller. The kind that would demonstrate isolation. There’s a cash reward for that information. I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago).

James Scutero had a quote from "the virus" in his .sig for a while last year. Did it talk to you too? You would have been better off listening to Professor Duesberg. His AIDS theory is intellectually dishonest. Its a joke.

On the subject of dishonesty, just provide the reference to the full isolation of "HIV", the virus you claim to have seen. Anyone who doubts the existance of the virus is incredibly ignorant or stupid. Retroviruses have been studied at various levels since the beginning if this century! Wake up.

Dr Turner is neither ignorant nor stupid, to judge by his work. And it is a particular virus we are interested in, not viruses in general. Again I suggest you need to familiarise yourself with the literature. All you are doing is demonstrating an obvious ignorance of the issues. John — "They have not proven that they have actually detected a unique exogenous retrovirus. The critical data to support that idea have not been presented." Prof. J Papadimitriou, Univ of W.Australia

Response:

[ ....mid-80's mantra: ] Attacking HIV makes people live longer. Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is still the best. John —

John, I think you missed the protease data. Henry N Fox Chapel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction." Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

Response:

[ ....mid-80's mantra: ] Attacking HIV makes people live longer.

Not so far. Haven’t you noticed? Duesgerg’s advice (below) is still the best. John — "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction." Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. Very well received by whom? The growing "Aids" dissident movement. Check out the list of scientists and others who support the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV Hypothesis of Aids. A partial list is on the newest Rethinking AIDS WebSite: http://www.xs4all.nl/~raido and is also currently posted to this group. Did you miss it?

I saw the list a was not impressed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The protease data should put an end to the circular arguments. Without circular arguments, orthodox "Aids" is finished, so this is certainly an over-optimistic suggestion. Also as there is no way to measure levels of "HIV", or even to establish its existence, claims based around this assertion are patently misleading. What has Peter Duesberg done other than add some academic credentials to intellectually dishonest arguements? He has saved a lot of lives. He has exposed the dishonesty of the conventional model of "Aids", and drawn attention to the appalling level of fraud and deception involved in this murderous pogrom. His was the first and most important scientific work to show the "virus" theory to be mistaken. The accuracy of his conclusions are hardly in doubt, given the subsequent history of the phenomenon.

No one has shown the virus theory mistaken. You are clearly very ignorant of the history and science of the "Aids" phenomenon. You should spend some time reading Duesberg and also the later work done in Perth, Australia by the scientific team there. Start with the websites, if, like our doctors here, you are averse to reading books. Then you might at least sound less like a drug company shareholder and more like a PhD. John —

I am well aware of the history of HIV. As a graduate student, post doc, and staff scientist I went to the same RNA Tumor Virus in Cold Spring Harbor every May (I actually spent my honeymoon there in 1977 – I was in NY and my wife was in NJ) that Peter Duesberg attended. He was better off sticking to the structural proteins of retroviruses or integration into DNA. He and I have isolated many retroviruses in the lab (the quantity was so high that you could actually see the banded virus in surcrose gels without the aid of a microscope). It was easy to visualize the proteins and enzymatic activities. The RNA has been isolated, copied into cDNA, and sequenced on many strains. Electron micrographs of the virus has been puclished countless time I’ve worked in the lab, seen the virus, and talked to Peter Duesberg (many years ago). His AIDS theory is intellectually dishonest. Its a joke. "HIV is a metaphor for a lot of quasi-related phenomena. No one has ever proved its existence as a virus. We don’t believe it exists." Dr. V. F. Turner, Royal Perth Hospital, Western Australia

Anyone who doubts the existance of the virus is incredibly ignorant or stupid. Retroviruses have been studied at various levels since the beginning if this century! Wake up. Henry N Fox Chapel

Response:

"Henry L. Niman, Ph.D." writes: Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. Very well received by whom?

The growing "Aids" dissident movement. Check out the list of scientists and others who support the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV Hypothesis of Aids. A partial list is on the newest Rethinking AIDS WebSite: http://www.xs4all.nl/~raido and is also currently posted to this group. Did you miss it? The protease data should put an end to the circular arguments.

Without circular arguments, orthodox "Aids" is finished, so this is certainly an over-optimistic suggestion. Also as there is no way to measure levels of "HIV", or even to establish its existence, claims based around this assertion are patently misleading. What has Peter Duesberg done other than add some academic credentials to intellectually dishonest arguements?

He has saved a lot of lives. He has exposed the dishonesty of the conventional model of "Aids", and drawn attention to the appalling level of fraud and deception involved in this murderous pogrom. His was the first and most important scientific work to show the "virus" theory to be mistaken. The accuracy of his conclusions are hardly in doubt, given the subsequent history of the phenomenon. You are clearly very ignorant of the history and science of the "Aids" phenomenon. You should spend some time reading Duesberg and also the later work done in Perth, Australia by the scientific team there. Start with the websites, if, like our doctors here, you are averse to reading books. Then you might at least sound less like a drug company shareholder and more like a PhD. John — "HIV is a metaphor for a lot of quasi-related phenomena. No one has ever proved its existence as a virus. We don’t believe it exists." Dr. V. F. Turner, Royal Perth Hospital, Western Australia

Response:

There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver. Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ? In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? Yes. Notable silence.

Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. John — "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction." Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver. Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ? In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? Yes. Notable silence. Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading.

John, dearest dog… Do-wrong Duesberg’s book is a regurgitation of his mid-80’s mantra with squeals of conspiracy thrown-in. Who are you trying to kid? You think the identification of major co-factors and the proven benefits of attacking HIV add to this moron’s credibility? We want to hear this guy either recant his erroneous position or defend it in a timely fashion – a professional response is required from Duesberg. People are fed-up seeing him ignore the info which defeats his case. Attacking HIV makes people live longer.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver. Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ? In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? Yes. Notable silence. Professor Duesberg’s new book "Inventing the AIDS Virus" has been very well received and is right up to date. It gains considerably in stature and credibility from the obvious vindication of his early research and conclusions. Definitely worth reading. John — "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would be my reaction." Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

Very well received by whom? The protease data should put an end to the circular arguments. If HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, it seems to be a great target to attack to improve the health of AIDS victims. What has Peter Duesberg done other than add some academic credentials to intellectually dishonest arguements? Henry N Fox Chapel

Response:

There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver. Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ? In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? I would surely like to know the latest from both sides.

Response:

There seem to be a flurry of developments of news concerning the AIDS front, including the conference in Vancouver. Do we have an update and comments from Peter Duesberg ? In one hand, some news seem to vindicate him and others seem to strengthen the HIV cause-proponents ? I would surely like to know the latest from both sides.

Yes. Notable silence. Are there two sides any more? Duesberg must be feeling pretty stupid right now.

Response:

Question:

JFM, The GST may cost the government more to administer than the taxes it replaced, but it si also providing a lot more revenus. In other words, it is bringing a lot more money than it cost to administer.

Thats not what the reports say, but that’s another story. My question is: would taxing frequent flyer points earned through your employer bring in more revenus than it would cost to administer such a plan ? Remember that if you offload the administration to employers, they will somehow have to pass the costs on to someone else and in the end, the govt gets less tax revenus because of those additional expenses.

Let’s keep in mind, the employees of Hiram-Walker we not taxed hundreds, they were taxed thousands. I don’t know about you, but I think if each Frequent Flyer, and there are a lot of you/them, were taxed thousands every year, once a system was in place, it would be very much worth while. And if citizens start to get taxed on FF points earned while they are forced

As far as I understand the law, you would not get taxed for the points you earn, you would be taxed if you use your earned points for personal travel. to be away from thyeir family, I would hope that the government would compensate them for the extra child care costs, and "damages" to family health because one or both parents are away often on business.

The job you are in was your choice, not the governments. There are many people that do not make the kind of money you are making and accumulating points at the same time, are YOU going to compensate them for damages of not being able to travel on vacation with with their families using points that you accumulated while being paid to do your job? If your FF miles are the reason for working and not the compensation YOUR employer gives you to do the above, then maybe you should re think your priorities. Sam

Response:

: Not being a tax accountant, I cannot explain the "HOW", but : I can tell you it has been done. EXAMPLE: If you are : submitting an expense claim that includes flights, then I : guess those points will be taxable and the rest would not : be.

4 Points: 1- If you make it too hard for airlines to administer their FF programmes, they might decide to no longer provide points for actually using the airline or cancel their programm altogether. That would be a very bad political decision if govt forced airlines to cancel their FF programmes. 2- What do you do with programmes such as Air Miles, or even the Club Z (Zellers). Will you force secretaries to be taxed on the club Z points they accumulate while buying office stuff ? 3- Airline programmes used to be "dedicated to airlines" but have since spread their coverage to telephone calls (Bell-CP, Unitel-AC, and in the USA a whole lot of them), every purchase done on credit cards, some airport parking lots, and in tehcase of CP, even a moving company. So, if you want to tax the benefits that go along with a business trip, you might also as well tax all the side expenses that also give points. 4- In the past, you could argue that FF programmes cost the airlines a lot of money and that this was translated into higher airfares. Hence, your employer would end up subsidizing your eventual free trip by paying higher airfares, hence it could be considered that your employer was giving you some fringe benefits for which you shoudl be taxed. But with more and more partners actually giving the airline money to participate in those FF programmes, some airlines *apparently* are making money with them, hence, it helps them keep airfares lower and as such, one could argue that it lowers the cost to the employers which means that by being part of an FF programme, you benefit your employer instead of the employer giving you benefits.

Response:

Anything can be done, and not being cost effective is no reason why our government won’t do it, look at the GST fiasco.

The GST may cost the government more to administer than the taxes it replaced, but it si also providing a lot more revenus. In other words, it is bringing a lot more money than it cost to administer. My question is: would taxing frequent flyer points earned through your employer bring in more revenus than it would cost to administer such a plan ? Remember that if you offload the administration to employers, they will somehow have to pass the costs on to someone else and in the end, the govt gets less tax revenus because of those additional expenses. And if citizens start to get taxed on FF points earned while they are forced to be away from thyeir family, I would hope that the government would compensate them for the extra child care costs, and "damages" to family health because one or both parents are away often on business.

Response:

JFM, Maybe you should ask this question to the 2 employees or the accountants of Hiram-Walker who fought the federal government on this. Again, not being a Tax Accountant or Tax Lawyer, I cannot answer this. I have, however spoken to a Tax accountant and Lawyer, non Tax, and they both said it could and will be done. This will probably only happen if you are audited, but, the government may impliment it full force if they want. Think of it this way, this may be very, very inaccurate, but, if taken an average fare, and taken an average points accumulated, this can pretty much determine "THE TAX RATE." Anything can be done, and not being cost effective is no reason why our government won’t do it, look at the GST fiasco. Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And maybe, the company, not the airlines, will add the points accumulated as a taxable benefit on the T4 slip. This, I’m sure will be ordered by the Federal Government when the time is right. Will the government then simplay have a "fake" rule that you are taxed x% on your airplane ticket prices instead of the actual points earned ? How does your company/employer know how many points you accumulate on a flight for which they only see the credit card bill and ticket stub in your expense report ? While you say that such a plan would be stopped once politicians realise how THEY will be affected, they may also be stopped by govt been counters when they realise how much it will cost to implement such a programme that won,t bring in more money than it cost to administer.

Response:

JFM, 4 Points: 1- If you make it too hard for airlines to administer their FF programmes, they might decide to no longer provide points for actually using the airline or cancel their programm altogether. That would be a very bad political decision if govt forced airlines to cancel their FF programmes.

firstly, the administration of ff points would not change. An extra statement or two might be sent to the government, employer or employee to indicate points accumulated and points redeemed. Then it would be up to the government/employer/employee to determine what is taxed. secondly, the thought of cancelling ff programs is not a bad one for the airlines. Let’s not forget that the points are a liablility to the airlines not an asset. Lastly, I don’t think the government would be made out to be "the heavy" if this were to happen. 2- What do you do with programmes such as Air Miles, or even the Club Z (Zellers). Will you force secretaries to be taxed on the club Z points they accumulate while buying office stuff ?

Presidence(sp) can be set by Airline FF points, once a system is in place, the sky is the limit as they say. 3- Airline programmes used to be "dedicated to airlines" but have since spread their coverage to telephone calls (Bell-CP, Unitel-AC, and in the USA a whole lot of them), every purchase done on credit cards, some airport parking lots, and in tehcase of CP, even a moving company. So, if you want to tax the benefits that go along with a business trip, you might also as well tax all the side expenses that also give points.

Again, not being a Tax Lawyer, I don’t think accumulating points for personal reasons would be covered under this law. I believe the law covers points accumulated on business trips. Look at it this way, If you submit an expense report to your employer and it includes; Flights, Parking, Credit cards slips for dinners, etc and will be re-imbursed by your employer, then this would all be taxable. If you do not submit, then it would not be taxed. You would not get re-imbursed though. 4- In the past, you could argue that FF programmes cost the airlines a lot of money and that this was translated into higher airfares. Hence, your employer would end up subsidizing your eventual free trip by paying higher airfares, hence it could be considered that your employer was giving you some fringe benefits for which you shoudl be taxed. But with more and more partners actually giving the airline money to participate in those FF programmes, some airlines *apparently* are making money with them, hence, it helps them keep airfares lower and as such, one could argue that it lowers the cost to the employers which means that by being part of an FF programme, you benefit your employer instead of the employer giving you benefits.

If I were you, I would seriously consider hiring a good lawyer if you’re going to use that argument with Revenue Canada. Sam

Response:

: It’s not the airlines that will deem the points to be : business or pleasure, its the government. : Not being a tax accountant, I cannot explain the "HOW", but : I can tell you it has been done. EXAMPLE: If you are : submitting an expense claim that includes flights, then I : guess those points will be taxable and the rest would not : be. : So you have a choice, either include the cost of your : flights as an expense to be compensated/reimbursed AND : possibly be taxed on the points accumulated, -OR- do not get : compensated for your flights costs and not be taxed for your : points. OK. Then what does the employer do when you use your credit card to make the purchase of business expense and then you get the benefit of Aeroplan points by way of the purchase on the credit card. e.g. Diners/EnRoute or CIBC Visa Gold? Unless the company pays your anual fee, you technically paid for those miles! This also comes down to the argument, what truly is the benefit? There have been many cases for the argument of taxing airline employees on their travel passes. However because they are standby passes that would only have value when the plane has empty seats, they have minimal marginal value/cost to the employee/airline. What is it really worth? To me their not worth much and to send money to the government for points earned through business causes much greater headaches than revenue to the government. I can’t see it going through as it has been in the the law for many years but it is so impracticle to enforce. — Darren Downs Faculty of Commerce and Business Administration University of British Columbia Vancouver, B.C. Canada

Response:

And maybe, the company, not the airlines, will add the points accumulated as a taxable benefit on the T4 slip. This, I’m sure will be ordered by the Federal Government when the time is right.

Will the government then simplay have a "fake" rule that you are taxed x% on your airplane ticket prices instead of the actual points earned ? How does your company/employer know how many points you accumulate on a flight for which they only see the credit card bill and ticket stub in your expense report ? While you say that such a plan would be stopped once politicians realise how THEY will be affected, they may also be stopped by govt been counters when they realise how much it will cost to implement such a programme that won,t bring in more money than it cost to administer.

Response:

Taken from The Toronto Star Monday, December 11, 1995 "AIR POINTS TO BE TAXED AT LOW RATE, COURT RULES from Canadian Press Thanks to a recent court ruling, Canadian business travellers face taxes on one of their most cherished perks – free flights. The Tax Court of Canada confirmed Revenu Canada’s long-standing view that frequent-flyer mileage accumulated on the job and used for free personal trips is a taxable employee benefit. But it’s not all bad news for frequent flyers. The court pegged the value of the benefit at far less that hte cost of a full-fare ticket – Revenue Canada’s original assessment. The judge in the test case came up with a formula that generally sets the value of redeemed tickets at 15 to 20 per cent of a full-fare ticket in whatever class the passenger travels. Revenue Canada has long held that travellers are subject to taxes on free flights earned through business travel. However, its position did not have the weight of the law because until now, no taxpayer had taken the matter to court. Revenue Canada got legal affirmation that mileage is an employment benefit, while the lawyer for the appellants is satisfied by the significant reduction in the benefit value." I wonder how/if this will affect any decisions in the USA if one already hasen’t been made. Anyone in the US aware of any type of ruling/law similar to the above? Sam Please excuse any spelling mistakes made on my part. Sam

Response:

I doubt it will happen in the U.S. The politicians are some of the biggest recipients of the points. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Taken from The Toronto Star Monday, December 11, 1995 "AIR POINTS TO BE TAXED AT LOW RATE, COURT RULES from Canadian Press Thanks to a recent court ruling, Canadian business travellers face taxes on one of their most cherished perks – free flights. The Tax Court of Canada confirmed Revenu Canada’s long-standing view that frequent-flyer mileage accumulated on the job and used for free personal trips is a taxable employee benefit. But it’s not all bad news for frequent flyers. The court pegged the value of the benefit at far less that hte cost of a full-fare ticket – Revenue Canada’s original assessment. The judge in the test case came up with a formula that generally sets the value of redeemed tickets at 15 to 20 per cent of a full-fare ticket in whatever class the passenger travels. Revenue Canada has long held that travellers are subject to taxes on free flights earned through business travel. However, its position did not have the weight of the law because until now, no taxpayer had taken the matter to court. Revenue Canada got legal affirmation that mileage is an employment benefit, while the lawyer for the appellants is satisfied by the significant reduction in the benefit value." I wonder how/if this will affect any decisions in the USA if one already hasen’t been made. Anyone in the US aware of any type of ruling/law similar to the above? Sam Please excuse any spelling mistakes made on my part. Sam

Response:

The Tax Court of Canada confirmed Revenu Canada’s long-standing view that frequent-flyer mileage accumulated on the job and used for free personal trips is a taxable employee benefit.

And how, may I ask, will the airlines distinguish between air miles accumulated "on the job" and air miles accumulated "off the job" (eg: vacations, familiy travel etc). ????? Say my job earns me 2000 points, but my regular holiday travels earns me 68000 points and I use 70000 point for a flight to some far away place. Why should I get taxed ? Or does this mean that an airline will be bound to produce T4 slips (revenus/benefit declarations) for everty free flight that is awarded, even if the user accumulated points outside of the job environment ????? Nice theory, but hardly something that can be implemented.

Response:

JFM, It’s not the airlines that will deem the points to be business or pleasure, its the government. Not being a tax accountant, I cannot explain the "HOW", but I can tell you it has been done. EXAMPLE: If you are submitting an expense claim that includes flights, then I guess those points will be taxable and the rest would not be. So you have a choice, either include the cost of your flights as an expense to be compensated/reimbursed AND possibly be taxed on the points accumulated, -OR- do not get compensated for your flights costs and not be taxed for your points. I guess "you can’t have your cake and eat it too". ("YOU" being in the general sense, not JFM specifically) I wouldn’t be so bold as to say it cannot be implemented. The only thing that may curve this is if when all the politians start to get taxed. See politians cannot or could not accumulate ff miles when travelling on business (political), but they do/did. So most of these folk are either "Elite" with AC and/or "Presidents Gold" with CP. When they start to be taxed, then maybe, just maybe, something will be done or not done as the case may be. And maybe, the company, not the airlines, will add the points accumulated as a taxable benefit on the T4 slip. This, I’m sure will be ordered by the Federal Government when the time is right. One other thing, being in the industry, I notice a lot of FF members almost clean out their accounts prior to a federal budget. WHY?? Possibly because the budget may include specific wording regarding the taxing of FF points. By the way, it is not a theory, it is being done. Just hope you don’t get audited. GOOD LUCK SAM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And how, may I ask, will the airlines distinguish between air miles accumulated "on the job" and air miles accumulated "off the job" (eg: vacations, familiy travel etc). ????? Say my job earns me 2000 points, but my regular holiday travels earns me 68000 points and I use 70000 point for a flight to some far away place. Why should I get taxed ? Or does this mean that an airline will be bound to produce T4 slips (revenus/benefit declarations) for everty free flight that is awarded, even if the user accumulated points outside of the job environment ????? Nice theory, but hardly something that can be implemented.

Response:

Question:

According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%.

Inflation compounds, like interest. 10% for two years is 21%, not 20%. It gets more significant with long periods. If inflation runs at 4.7% for 35 years, a base price of $1.00 grows to $4.99. I am inclined to believe that the inflation figures have become a state secret. Indeed, the fact that they are a state secret must also be a state secret. However, this is possibly just a reflection of my mistrust of government and evidence of my poor memory. If anyone has or can point to the location of the government inflation figures for the last 35 years, please email them or post them.

There are scores of government and private cost indices available. For starters, see the "Prices" section of the latest _Statistical Abstract of the United States_, where you will find numerous indices at varying levels of detail. For example, if your base period is 1982-84, the consumer price index for bedroom furniture hit 120.1 by 1991, compared to just 118.3 for sofas. More generally, if we take 1982-84 = 100, the Consumer Price Index was 29.6 in 1960 and 136.2 in 1991, meaning $1.00 in 1960 would be worth $4.60 in 1991. That’s for ‘60 to ‘91, leaving two years before and two more after to make up the rest of the $4.99. — 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399 fax x108 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor. NextMail OK

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Yes, anyone who answered exponential growth or compound interest is correct. I went linear and then parabolic. Should have gone exponential. I forgot that over a long enough period even a small increment will result in large increases. Now that we’re speaking of the exponentially challenged, how about that pope’s speech in Colorado. I couldn’t believe that he still tells his cult followers to fight contraception and abortion. The world population is growing exponentially. If we don’t do something it will get even uglier than it is now. You would think that with some 45,000 children dying daily from starvation and the effects of malnutrition he would worry less about the unborn and more about the living.

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# According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By #my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly #inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. # My memory is by no means perfect and I do not recall our government #announcing an 11.4% rate year after year for the last 35 years. The local Two words: compound interest.

The same thing happened in the 1980s. While average growth was less than average growth in the 50s and 60s, we had seven straight years of growth. Which gets you a lot more than a year of 5% growth, a year of decline, etc. Brett

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According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. My memory is by no means perfect and I do not recall our government announcing an 11.4% rate year after year for the last 35 years. The local

[conspiracy theory deleted] Well, the main problem with your analysis is that you don’t know what you’re doing. The annual rate IS NOT 399/35 = 11.4 pct, which you apparently have calculated above, but something closer to the lines of 4.99 = (1 + i)^35 where 35 is years, and `i’ is the annual inflation rate. Here, we note that the annual inflation rate i = 4.7 pct, not 11.4 pct as you claim. Oh, by the way, I go along with your notion that the reported inflation rate (as measured by the ubiquitous `basket of goods’) is fraudulent. It’s just that the 399% number has nothing to do with it. Matt

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I would like to correct my previous response and add some details. (1.0404**35 = 3.99)

That probably should have been: (1.047**35)-1.00 = 3.99 as pointed out by someone else. More detailed info: Percentages of Consumer Price Increase (sic) Year 1967 82-84 1958 Yr-to-Yr Base Base Base Rate 1958 87 29.1 100.0 2.73 1959 87 29.3 100.8 0.81 1960 89 29.8 102.4 1.60 1961 90 30.1 103.5 1.01 1962 91 30.4 104.6 1.12 1963 92 30.8 105.9 1.21 1964 93 31.2 107.3 1.31 1965 95 31.7 109.1 1.72 1966 97 32.6 112.2 2.86 1967 100 33.6 115.5 2.88 1968 104 34.9 120.1 4.00 1969 109 36.6 125.9 4.81 1970 116 38.9 133.9 6.42 1971 121 40.6 139.7 4.31 1972 125 41.9 144.3 3.31 1973 133 44.6 153.6 6.40 1974 147 49.3 169.7 10.53 1975 161 54.0 185.9 9.52 1976 170 57.0 196.3 5.59 1977 181 60.7 209.0 6.47 1978 195 65.4 225.2 7.73 1979 217 72.8 250.6 11.28 1980 246 82.6 284.1 13.36 1981 272 91.3 314.1 10.57 1982 289 97.0 333.7 6.25 1983 298 100.0 344.1 3.11 1984 311 104.4 359.1 4.36 1985 322 108.1 371.8 3.54 1986 328 110.1 378.8 1.86 1987 340 114.1 392.6 3.66 1988 354 118.8 408.8 4.12 1989 371 124.5 428.4 4.80 1990 394 132.2 455.0 5.16 1991 404 135.5 466.1 2.45 1992 415 139.4 479.6 2.89 These data are from the Bureau of Labor Sadistics (sic, for sure). Year-end data usually becomes available about February next. It is now common to use figures based on the 1982-84 average. The base used to be 1967. The ratio of the two series is 3:1. ==Bob

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# According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By #my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly #inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. # My memory is by no means perfect and I do not recall our government #announcing an 11.4% rate year after year for the last 35 years. The local Two words: compound interest. Don McGregor

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] According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By ]my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly ]inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. Actually, it really makes a difference when you put it into the exponential algrithm — you get a yearly rate of 4% $1 in 1958 with a constant inflation rate of 4% annually. 1958 .04 1.04 1959 .04 1.0816 1960 .04 1.12486 1961 .04 1.16986 1962 .04 1.21665 1963 .04 1.26532 1964 .04 1.31593 1965 .04 1.36857 1966 .04 1.42331 1967 .04 1.48024 1968 .04 1.53945 1969 .04 1.60103 1970 .04 1.66507 1971 .04 1.73168 1972 .04 1.80094 1973 .04 1.87298 1974 .04 1.9479 1975 .04 2.02582 1976 .04 2.10685 1977 .04 2.19112 1978 .04 2.27877 1979 .04 2.36992 1980 .04 2.46472 1981 .04 2.5633 1982 .04 2.66584 1983 .04 2.77247 1984 .04 2.88337 1985 .04 2.9987 1986 .04 3.11865 1987 .04 3.2434 1988 .04 3.37313 1989 .04 3.50806 1990 .04 3.64838 1991 .04 3.79432 1992 .04 3.94609 1993 .04 4.10393 =310% inflation (or don’t you subtract 100%, I forget) 5% inflation yearly yeilds well above 400% ] I am inclined to believe that the inflation figures have become a ]state secret. Indeed, the fact that they are a state secret must also be a ]state secret. However, this is possibly just a reflection of my mistrust of ]government and evidence of my poor memory. If anyone has or can point to the ]location of the government inflation figures for the last 35 years, please ]email them or post them. I think the government would have a verrrry hard time hiding inflation figures. Money is something that gets paid a lot of attention. Brian — Cannabis Reform Coalition ( | ) , S.A.O. Box #2 |/ { 415 Student Union Building `-^-’ ? ) _,-__/ * To find out about our on-line library, mail a message with the * pattern "{{{readme}}}" contained IN THE SUBJECT LINE. * You will be mailed instructions; your message will be otherwise ignored

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According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. My memory is by no means perfect and I do not recall our government announcing an 11.4% rate year after year for the last 35 years. The local paper, for example, published an inflation rate of 0.1% for July, ‘93, which would mean (if all of ‘93 were the same) a yearly rate of 1.2% or nearly an order of magnitude less than the average monthly rate over the last 35 years. I am inclined to believe that the inflation figures have become a state secret. Indeed, the fact that they are a state secret must also be a state secret. However, this is possibly just a reflection of my mistrust of government and evidence of my poor memory. If anyone has or can point to the location of the government inflation figures for the last 35 years, please email them or post them. Can we accept the inflation and unemployment statistics from official sources, or should we calculate them ourselves? Can we accept anything the government says without checking it ourselves? Probably not! — —- Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of the tyrant and the creed of the slave. – William Pitt, 1763 India Incas, Mr. Peabody? – Sherman

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: # According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By : #my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly : #inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. : # My memory is by no means perfect and I do not recall our government : #announcing an 11.4% rate year after year for the last 35 years. The local : Two words: compound interest. Two numbers: 4.70% / year, and 0.383% / month.

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According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. My memory is by no means perfect and I do not recall our government announcing an 11.4% rate year after year for the last 35 years. The local paper, for example, published an inflation rate of 0.1% for July, ‘93, which would mean (if all of ‘93 were the same) a yearly rate of 1.2% or nearly an order of magnitude less than the average monthly rate over the last 35 years.

First the recent rates of inflation are quite low compared to what was previously the norm. We won’t even have 1.2% for this year, it will probably be more like 3.0% for the entire year. July was in fact quite low. Second, when you calculate inflation from 1958 to 1993, it is just like calculating an interest yield rate for a 35 year period. I.E. prices may go up 3.0% this year and another 3% next year so something that cost $1.00 before this year, costs $1.03 at the end of this year and then we can 3% of the $1.03 to find out it will cost a little over $1.06 at $1.061. So the inflation rate over the two years would be 6.1% not 6.0%. That is why you cannot simply divide 399%/35 years. You can find the correct calculation in any accounting book in the chapter that deals with interest rates. I am inclined to believe that the inflation figures have become a state secret. Indeed, the fact that they are a state secret must also be a state secret. However, this is possibly just a reflection of my mistrust of government and evidence of my poor memory. If anyone has or can point to the location of the government inflation figures for the last 35 years, please email them or post them. Can we accept the inflation and unemployment statistics from official sources, or should we calculate them ourselves? Can we accept anything the government says without checking it ourselves? Probably not!

You have no choice. There is no way to calculate them ourselves. Rob

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: # According to CNN, the inflation rate since 1958 has been 399%. By : #my primitive (long division) calculations, this means an average yearly : #inflation rate of 11.4% and an average monthly rate of 0.95%. : # My memory is by no means perfect and I do not recall our government : #announcing an 11.4% rate year after year for the last 35 years. The local : Two words: compound interest. : Don McGregor I’m not particularly impressed by constantly revised inflation numbers either, but you really should give the bureaucrats the benefit of the doubt. The original poster made the fatal error of taking a simple (admittedly primitive) annual average. The above followup pointed out the flaw, namely _compound_interest_. With that in mind, a real calculator shows 35 years of compounding gets you 399% with a mere 4.04% annual contribution. (1.0404**35 = 3.99) ^^^^^ Sorry to burst the collective anti-government bubble, but let’s be fair. Topic for further discussion (rhetorical only): just where does that compound interest disappear to… –Bob

Accounting Talk

Any advice would be great!

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