Question:

Is Bank Reconciliation included in Account Reconciliation?Or, Bank Reconciliation just refers to bank account;Account reconciliation refers to other accounts? Anyonce can help me?Thanks!

Response:

Is Bank Reconciliation included in Account Reconciliation?Or, Bank Reconciliation just refers to bank account;Account reconciliation refers to other accounts? Anyonce can help me?Thanks!

Account Reconciliation may also refer to reconciling Accounts Receivable and Accounts Payable.  Bank Reconciliation is only related to the bank account. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

May refer to A/R, A/P, and other accounts such as Credit Card, clearing, suspense, share capital, fixed assets, inventory, payroll liabilities, etc.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is Bank Reconciliation included in Account Reconciliation?Or, Bank Reconciliation just refers to bank account;Account reconciliation refers to other accounts? Anyonce can help me?Thanks! Account Reconciliation may also refer to reconciling Accounts Receivable and Accounts Payable.  Bank Reconciliation is only related to the bank account. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

Is Bank Reconciliation included in Account Reconciliation?Or, Bank Reconciliation just refers to bank account;Account reconciliation refers to other accounts? Anyonce can help me?Thanks!

Any reconciliation is an attempt to identify the differences between two records of the same thing and make necessary corrections, if any are required. Joe Bruno Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war) Ancient Roman Motto Visit my web page for pictures, music, and accounting services http://www.msnusers.com/Joepictures2008/shoebox.msnw

Response:

snip.. Joe Bruno Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war) Ancient Roman Motto

Accountant’s Motto: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur (Anything you say sounds grand, as long as you say it in Latin)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip.. Joe Bruno Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war) Ancient Roman Motto Accountant’s Motto: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur (Anything you say sounds grand, as long as you say it in Latin)

From MacBeth, Act V: ‘Tis a tale told by an idiot Full of sound and fury Signifying nothing Joe Bruno Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war) Ancient Roman Motto Visit my web page for pictures, music, and accounting services http://www.msnusers.com/Joepictures2008/shoebox.msnw

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Question:

Here are question related to Corporate expenses etc. 1) Is it smart to purchase a very large amount of inventory of product a corporation would sell anyway within 1 year ?  to make this purchase 1 month in advance of corp. year end? Can you write off the entire amount as an expense in this case and thus reap the benefits for the current fiscal? 2) What about consumables (things that are used up quickly such as coffee, paper, products used in manufacturing your finished products, etc… ) to elevate the expenses in the current fiscal year?

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message Here are question related to Corporate expenses etc. 1) Is it smart to purchase a very large amount of inventory of product a corporation would sell anyway within 1 year ?  to make this purchase 1 month in advance of corp. year end? Can you write off the entire amount as an expense in this case and thus reap the benefits for the current fiscal? 2) What about consumables (things that are used up quickly such as coffee, paper, products used in manufacturing your finished products, etc… ) to elevate the expenses in the current fiscal year?

it depends on things such as accrual vs cash accounting, the nature of the item in question,  type of business,  etc.   If you have a real business you should consult with a real accountant to save you real money !

Response:

Here are question related to Corporate expenses etc. 1) Is it smart to purchase a very large amount of inventory of product a corporation would sell anyway within 1 year ?  to make this purchase 1 month in advance of corp. year end?

Not really, unless you are the one selling the inventory to the business, and you’re on commission. Can you write off the entire amount as an expense in this case and thus reap the benefits for the current fiscal?

nope, and here’s the bite:  The invemtory on hand is an asset, and one that’s not all that liquid.  So, all you’ve done is, reduce Cash (or increase the Accounts Payable) and increase Inventory (a shifting from one asset to another). Inventory purchased is expensed ONLY what it gets sold, which wouldn’t happen for another few months or so. 2) What about consumables (things that are used up quickly such as coffee, paper, products used in manufacturing your finished products, etc… ) to elevate the expenses in the current fiscal year?

Office supplies are generally expensed when purchased in a smaller business (don’t rightly know what the mega-corporations do), so you can play a bit with your bottom line by buying paper and supplies right before year-end. But in the end, all you’ve done is shift the expense from the later year to the earlier year. "Products used in manufacturing your finished products" is an inventory item in most cases, and per tax law you may be required to carry this as such. Again, no real benefit. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia

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Question:

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:59:01 GMT, "Robin" <rpatrickjm[remove]@attbi.com> wrote: >I am concerned that we are showing rogue states that the UN is a joke and >not to be taken seriously, after all why should they, nothing happens when a >rouge state flips the bird at them other than a new resolution.

EXACTLY! Martin Aquinas Borders…Language…Culture…QUICK! Islam is not a religion of peace Islam has not been spread like the preaching of the Bible Islam is involved in 20 of 22 wars today Islam [much of it] is currently preaching hatred and terrorism against Christians Islam must undergo a reformation, as it is not compatable with the western nation state, or be asked to leave Support the troops!

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> Hi Robin, > I’m curious as to why you’re so keen to point out that the US didn’t write > the resolution. They certainly had the biggest influence, and I would > consider it a US product, endorsed by Tony blair, but toned down slightly > by others in the UN.  The following reminds us what was going on at the > time. > Cheers > Tony >    UNITED NATIONS, Nov. 6 (UPI) — The U.N. Security Council Wednesday > began considering the revised U.S. draft resolution that, if approved in a > vote anticipated by week’s end, would declare Iraq in continuing "material > breach" of previous measures and warn Baghdad of "serious consequences" — > the diplomatic term for use of force — if it fails to cooperate with > weapons inspectors

If the US had done what it wanted to(as reported in our local news) we would have already commenced actions. Going to the UN was a compromise to make it more palatable for the liberal left and to give them a chance to capitalize politically on any moves the president might make. Again (not worth looking up references for this point) the UN resolution was haggled over, rewritten, and negotiated, and rewritten, and haggled over to appease Russia, France and Germany to get it to pass. Since the document is only 8 pages long I feel that by the time it has had that much scrutiny it no longer matters who punched the keys to generate it. It is a product of all of the filtering and processing that preceded it. I have never seen a poorer piece of writing in my life. Considering the supposed intellect of the persons involved in the drafting/haggling of it, it should be stellar. I agree with many of your points Tony, just not to the degree that you do. I also disagree with you on the main thrust as we have discussed before. I am concerned that we are showing rogue states that the UN is a joke and not to be taken seriously, after all why should they, nothing happens when a rouge state flips the bird at them other than a new resolution. Perhaps in this new resolution we should put "Hey we really mean it this time" After having read several other resolutions from their web site I fear it is even more so likely to be a joke and paper waster for its drafting’s. Just my thoughts. Robin

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"Robin" <rpatrickjm[remove]@attbi.com> wrote in news:pMJ6a.254907$HN5.1097984@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net: > I agree with many of your points Tony, just not to the > degree that you do. I also disagree with you on the main thrust as we > have discussed before.

Yes. I think we agree only on the little things. On the big things, we’re poles apart. May God guide those with the power to do what’s right. Tony (Not that I think he will intervene in the slightest!)

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"Robin" <rpatrickjm[remove]@attbi.com> wrote in news:fHz6a.250831$vm2.192596@rwcrnsc54: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> You (or the US Govt) need to spell those exact limits out in advance >> to the accused so that he knows how to comply. Otherwise it looks to >> the accused and the rest of the world like you’re setting him up to >> lose. >> It is not acceptable to leave it open ended.  He needs to know what >> is considered enough. > Again remember this was written by the UN not the US. > Why do they have to do it? > If you want me to set the limits I would be happy to but no one will > listen to me so why bother >> > They say Iraq IS in breech. Reading back the cease fire was based >> > on NOT being in breach. How is one to reconcile the two?? >> Imo it is a shoddy piece of legislation. I suspect that that is the >> way international stuff of this type is,  and maybe its got like that >> because it is never written with enforcement in mind. > I agree with that but it is all we have to work with right now. >> > This did not happen until when Tony?? >> What was your deadline? What did you say in advance that you’d do if >> he didn’t meet that deadline.  If you write shoddy legislation, it >> can’t be enforced. > It was supposed to happen in a time frame that was defined in the > resolution but I do not remember when it was. Did not happen though. >> You can’t have a law "drink too much and you’ll be in trouble" >>  you have to specify the exact blood alcohol level, and the exact >> sentence, and you need to have clear unambiguous guidance on >> sentencing and how different circs effect the sentence.  You can’t >> ‘play it by ear’.  You have to provide a clear unambiguous message to >> the accused. > I agree again. But you can have a law that says if you are drunkthen > you are in trouble if doing…… >> > How do we reconcile the points that matter? >> You can’t because the legislation is poorly drafted. > On purpose I suppose too. But the US did not write it and I beleive > that has something to do with it since we wanted to go in rather than > draft it. Right or wrong I think it was a stalling attempt to allow > more time to disuade the USA from delivering an ass wuppin >> But where exactly is the line? > Good question!…… but I doubt it is prior to missing Anthrax, > Missing Botulism (sp), and missing missles. >> What about  steel tubes that could be used either as drain pipes, or >> fitted with a lid at both ends and filled with powder? >> It just wont do. > Salt and eggs until we account for the above items I mentioned >> A war cannot be used as punishment for an inadequate accounting >> system. >> Morally, if you think he is hiding wmd, you have to provide the proof >> of guilt, not the other way around. > No… He agreed to show us and account for all items not play hide the > weapons and see if you can find them.. Now we will hear people poo poo > away his missles he did not account for and was not supposed to have. > But hey it was only a couple dozen and they did not go very far beyond > the limit he agreed to. >> There just isn’t a moral argument for war. >> There is an economic argument – which I disagree with, but at least >> there’s a case to answer. > Well Tony it seems we a way way apart on this issue. I strongly > disagree with you. I do not feel we will ever agree on this, but > respect your (wrong )opinion and am glad to know you here. > be well > Robin

Hi Robin, I’m curious as to why you’re so keen to point out that the US didn’t write the resolution. They certainly had the biggest influence, and I would consider it a US product, endorsed by Tony blair, but toned down slightly by others in the UN.  The following reminds us what was going on at the time. Cheers Tony    UNITED NATIONS, Nov. 6 (UPI) — The U.N. Security Council Wednesday began considering the revised U.S. draft resolution that, if approved in a vote anticipated by week’s end, would declare Iraq in continuing "material breach" of previous measures and warn Baghdad of "serious consequences" — the diplomatic term for use of force — if it fails to cooperate with weapons inspectors

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Robin" <rpatrickjm[remove]@attbi.com> wrote in message <news:jiM5a.195870$2H6.3156@sccrnsc04>… > "Tonyjeffs" <iraq[remove]@tonyjeffs.com> wrote in message > news:Xns93295AEC7BE44iraqremovetonyjeffsc@62.253.162.104… > >It is impossible to comply in an undisputable manner with article 3: > >What is meant by ‘related material’ for example? > >Uranium ore? Certainly.  But activated carbon? Apparently so! > >What about  Sodium Fluorids?   ok.  Water then?  Essential as a cooling > >agent in some cases.  Have they included details of all water held in Iraq? > I agree to a point BUT. I think we could at least forget about accounting > for the salt, that was on the eggs, that was eaten, by the person during > breakfast, that went to work that day, and turned on the switch, that > allowed power to flow, to the plant, that makes WMD 150 miles down the road. > Perhaps accounting for the Anthrax, Botulism (sp) and things of that nature > would be a good start.

You (or the US Govt) need to spell those exact limits out in advance to the accused so that he knows how to comply. Otherwise it looks to the accused and the rest of the world like you’re setting him up to lose. It is not acceptable to leave it open ended.  He needs to know what is considered enough. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >2) What does ‘Serious Consequences’ mean?  In a legal document, a key term > >like this should be defined. > I agree again. the US wanted it to say ass wuppin. But Germany and France > and Russia wanted it to be ambiguous so they had another chance to save Iraq > from an ass wuppin. > From 1441 > Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, > 1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its > obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in > particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations > inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under > paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991); > They say Iraq IS in breech. Reading back the cease fire was based on NOT > being in breach. How is one to reconcile the two??

Imo it is a shoddy piece of legislation. I suspect that that is the way international stuff of this type is,  and maybe its got like that because it is never written with enforcement in mind. > Paragraph 7 (excerpt) says > UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of > fixed and rotary winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned > reconnaissance vehicles: > This did not happen until when Tony??

What was your deadline? What did you say in advance that you’d do if he didn’t meet that deadline.  If you write shoddy legislation, it can’t be enforced. You can’t have a law "drink too much and you’ll be in trouble"  you have to specify the exact blood alcohol level, and the exact sentence, and you need to have clear unambiguous guidance on sentencing and how different circs effect the sentence.  You can’t ‘play it by ear’.  You have to provide a clear unambiguous message to the accused. > So even though I understand your point. I think mine is valid as well. > How do we reconcile the points that matter?

You can’t because the legislation is poorly drafted. I think we can give up > accounting for the salt on the egg

But where exactly is the line? but I would still like to know about the > WMD

What about  steel tubes that could be used either as drain pipes, or fitted with a lid at both ends and filled with powder? It just wont do. A war cannot be used as punishment for an inadequate accounting system. Morally, if you think he is hiding wmd, you have to provide the proof of guilt, not the other way around. There just isn’t a moral argument for war. There is an economic argument – which I disagree with, but at least there’s a case to answer. Have a good weekend yourself too. Cheers Tony

Response:

> You (or the US Govt) need to spell those exact limits out in advance > to the accused so that he knows how to comply. Otherwise it looks to > the accused and the rest of the world like you’re setting him up to > lose. > It is not acceptable to leave it open ended.  He needs to know what is > considered enough.

Again remember this was written by the UN not the US. Why do they have to do it? If you want me to set the limits I would be happy to but no one will listen to me so why bother > > They say Iraq IS in breech. Reading back the cease fire was based on NOT > > being in breach. How is one to reconcile the two?? > Imo it is a shoddy piece of legislation. I suspect that that is the > way international stuff of this type is,  and maybe its got like that > because it is never written with enforcement in mind.

I agree with that but it is all we have to work with right now. > > This did not happen until when Tony?? > What was your deadline? What did you say in advance that you’d do if > he didn’t meet that deadline.  If you write shoddy legislation, it > can’t be enforced.

It was supposed to happen in a time frame that was defined in the resolution but I do not remember when it was. Did not happen though. > You can’t have a law "drink too much and you’ll be in trouble" >  you have to specify the exact blood alcohol level, and the exact > sentence, and you need to have clear unambiguous guidance on > sentencing and how different circs effect the sentence.  You can’t > ‘play it by ear’.  You have to provide a clear unambiguous message to > the accused.

I agree again. But you can have a law that says if you are drunkthen you are in trouble if doing…… > > How do we reconcile the points that matter? > You can’t because the legislation is poorly drafted.

On purpose I suppose too. But the US did not write it and I beleive that has something to do with it since we wanted to go in rather than draft it. Right or wrong I think it was a stalling attempt to allow more time to disuade the USA from delivering an ass wuppin > But where exactly is the line?

Good question!…… but I doubt it is prior to missing Anthrax, Missing Botulism (sp), and missing missles. > What about  steel tubes that could be used either as drain pipes, or > fitted with a lid at both ends and filled with powder? > It just wont do.

Salt and eggs until we account for the above items I mentioned > A war cannot be used as punishment for an inadequate accounting > system. > Morally, if you think he is hiding wmd, you have to provide the proof > of guilt, not the other way around.

No… He agreed to show us and account for all items not play hide the weapons and see if you can find them.. Now we will hear people poo poo away his missles he did not account for and was not supposed to have. But hey it was only a couple dozen and they did not go very far beyond the limit he agreed to. > There just isn’t a moral argument for war. > There is an economic argument – which I disagree with, but at least > there’s a case to answer.

Well Tony it seems we a way way apart on this issue. I strongly disagree with you. I do not feel we will ever agree on this, but respect your (wrong )opinion and am glad to know you here. be well Robin

Response:

"Tonyjeffs" <iraq[remove]@tonyjeffs.com> wrote in message

news:Xns93295AEC7BE44iraqremovetonyjeffsc@62.253.162.104… > "Robin" <rpatrickjm[remove]@attbi.com> wrote in > news:v_15a.186542$HN5.815092@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net: > > A drunk is driving down the road and a police officer pulls him over. > > Since he has not hurt anyone what is the moral obligation to arrest > > him. Perhaps the police should only act after there has been damage. > Drunk driving is illegal. > If he fails a breath test, and isn’t a fellow police officer, they should > charge him and convict him

Got the joke Tony;-) I am replying to another post I do not feel like searching for ………O.K. nervermind I found it from your post >It is impossible to comply in an undisputable manner with article 3: >What is meant by ‘related material’ for example? >Uranium ore? Certainly.  But activated carbon? Apparently so! >What about  Sodium Fluorids?   ok.  Water then?  Essential as a cooling >agent in some cases.  Have they included details of all water held in Iraq?

I agree to a point BUT. I think we could at least forget about accounting for the salt, that was on the eggs, that was eaten, by the person during breakfast, that went to work that day, and turned on the switch, that allowed power to flow, to the plant, that makes WMD 150 miles down the road. Perhaps accounting for the Anthrax, Botulism (sp) and things of that nature would be a good start. >2) What does ‘Serious Consequences’ mean?  In a legal document, a key term >like this should be defined.

I agree again. the US wanted it to say ass wuppin. But Germany and France and Russia wanted it to be ambiguous so they had another chance to save Iraq from an ass wuppin. From 1441 Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, 1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991); They say Iraq IS in breech. Reading back the cease fire was based on NOT being in breach. How is one to reconcile the two?? Paragraph 7 (excerpt) says UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed and rotary winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles: This did not happen until when Tony?? So even though I understand your point. I think mine is valid as well. How do we reconcile the points that matter? I think we can give up accounting for the salt on the egg but I would still like to know about the WMD Robin Have a nice weekend

Response:

"Robin" <rpatrickjm[remove]@attbi.com> wrote in news:v_15a.186542$HN5.815092@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net: > A drunk is driving down the road and a police officer pulls him over. > Since he has not hurt anyone what is the moral obligation to arrest > him. Perhaps the police should only act after there has been damage.

Drunk driving is illegal. If he fails a breath test, and isn’t a fellow police officer, they should charge him and convict him Tony (li’l joke in there!)

Response:

So back to my question. What is ambiguous in this resolution that the US did NOT write? Hmmmmm I am asking about the UN resolution here fcuk off. Can you answer the question?   "fcuk.off" <fcuk….@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:5I75a.1031$J77.85033@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net…     "Robin" wrote:     >A drunk is driving down the road and a police officer pulls him over. Since     >he has not hurt anyone what is the moral obligation to arrest him. Perhaps     >the police should only act after there has been damage     Ahhh…. I see it now.  The USA and UK are going to Iraq to arrest all the drunks..     >Do you get a flu shot? If so why, you do not have the flu.     A good idea to inject all Iraqis too.     >PREVENT/PREPARE/INSULATE. I am sure you have heard, "An ounce of prevention     >is worth a pound of cure"     What exactly are you preventing, and how come you can invade another country with no proof that anything needs preventing?       >So back to my question. What is ambiguous in this resolution that the US did     >NOT write? Hmmmmm     Bush has never been ambigous, just a plain old cowboy warmonger!     Blair has said if Saddam disarmed today or tomorrow, he could stay in power – some confusion around methinks! .

Response:

Tone wrote in the past:: > I’m sure we’ve all read it. > The USA made it ambiguous.

That’s the point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tony the US *Did not write it*. This resolution is only 8 pages long, including the preamble. I would submit that most people have NOT read it. I did not until right before my posting this topic as I expected that is was rather lengthy and wordy too. I was simply going by the news media and talk shows as to the content. I read it and it is crystal clear to me what Iraq is expected to do. What part of it do you find ambiguous? > Bottom line is there is no evidence that Iraq is a real threat to the > US or the UK.

What does that have to do with anything, assuming for a second it is true. What part of the resolution do you find ambiguous? A drunk is driving down the road and a police officer pulls him over. Since he has not hurt anyone what is the moral obligation to arrest him. Perhaps the police should only act after there has been damage. Do you get a flu shot? If so why, you do not have the flu. Do you buy auto insurance. Homeowners insurance. Why PREVENT/PREPARE/INSULATE. I am sure you have heard, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" So back to my question. What is ambiguous in this resolution that the US did NOT write? Hmmmmm Robin

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  "Robin" wrote:

  >A drunk is driving down the road and a police officer pulls him over. Since   >he has not hurt anyone what is the moral obligation to arrest him. Perhaps   >the police should only act after there has been damage   Ahhh…. I see it now.  The USA and UK are going to Iraq to arrest all the drunks..   >Do you get a flu shot? If so why, you do not have the flu.   A good idea to inject all Iraqis too.   >PREVENT/PREPARE/INSULATE. I am sure you have heard, "An ounce of prevention   >is worth a pound of cure"   What exactly are you preventing, and how come you can invade another country with no proof that anything needs preventing?     >So back to my question. What is ambiguous in this resolution that the US did   >NOT write? Hmmmmm   Bush has never been ambigous, just a plain old cowboy warmonger!   Blair has said if Saddam disarmed today or tomorrow, he could stay in power – some confusion around methinks! .

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Question:

Hi everyone.  I’m a junior high wood shop teacher, at least I used to be one. About 5 years ago the district that I work for "phased out" the wood shop in favor of a technology laboratory. (Does everyone know what a technology laboratory is?)   At first I thought it was okay, but the more I use it, the more I detest it (loathe might be a better word) and feel that we are really short changing our students by getting rid of shop, and home economics too.  I could go on for many pages (which I’d be glad to do if anyone is interested) but I’d like to start off by asking does any other reader have any experience or opinions on this process that our schools are going through?  Looking forward to hearing from any and all.  Bob.

Response:

does any other reader have any experience or opinions on this process that our schools are going through?  Looking forward to hearing from any and all.  Bob.

Hi Bob, My wife works at a high school that has done the same thing as yours: they "paid" for their computer labs by basically eliminating all their shop classes. What a joke! I really appreciate my computer for communication purposes, but all they are teaching the kids on the computers is how to be hi-tech clerks. Oh, there are a few destined to be techies and programmers, but the bulk of them will be clerks. I had wood, metal and handicraft shops while in junior high school in Southern California. Thank heavens! That, and the love affair with large moving mechanical objects called cars, was the basis for my current ability to solve problems, and build things from scratch, as needed. . .It is a real shame that this current cultural policy of assuming that all the U.S. needs is people who can manipulate keyboards is being foisted off on this generation and those to follow. Kim

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        Greetings and Salutations.         Well between THIS news group, and, rec.crafts.metalworking, there are probably megabytes of stored discussion about this.  I tend to agree with you, and, see only one, short-term benefit to this.  It means that it will mean permanent employment for all of us that can (and the few of us that are learning how to) do this sort of skilled work in metal and wood.  It will also cut down on the number of times we hit up against some twit saying "Geeze…why are you charging THAT much for <blivet.  I could do it for myself for about 1/3 that cost!"         In the long run, it will mean that America see a continuing erosion of its ability to be self-sufficient.  It will mean that more and more manufacturing will move to other countries, and, employers that remain IN the US will be unable to find competent workers.  Can America survive turning into a country of White-Collar workers who are not able to make basic tools?  I think not.  While it is not a terrible thing if a given person does not know EXACTLY what is going on inside their computer/car/etc, it makes problem resolution a bit easier if they have moved beyond the level of turning the key on and pointing it in a given direction.         Part of the problem is the snotty attitudes that many Americans have about people that work with their hands.  We have had a couple of generations now of folks that put College folks on a pedestal,and, view these folks that work mainly with their minds as being "better" than those that work with their hands.         Part of the problem is the liability issues.  America is continually overrun with more and more lawyers, and, more and more folks believing in the motto of "I got hurt…SOMEBODY ELSE is going to pay".  hence, even if some idiot ignores all safety instructions and warnings, and, runs their fingers through a table saw, or nails a foot to the floor while horsing around, the school system gets sued. With the general mind-set of the populace these days, a LOT of awards get made that should either not be as BIG as they are, or, should not be made at all.         When folks used to make Polish jokes, I would look at them and say "well, let me ask you…can you speak Polish?".  As the answer was almost always "well…no".  I would retort with "How does it feel to be stupider than a Pole, then?"  It is important for all of us to respect skills in ALL areas.  There is nothing that makes a heart surgeon any better a person than a car mechanic.  EIther can be vital to your life, depending on what is failing.         Regards         Dave Mundt Hi everyone.  I’m a junior high wood shop teacher, at least I used to be one. About 5 years ago the district that I work for "phased out" the wood shop in favor of a technology laboratory. (Does everyone know what a technology laboratory is?)   At first I thought it was okay, but the more I use it, the more I detest it (loathe might be a better word) and feel that we are really short changing our students by getting rid of shop, and home economics too.  I could go on for many pages (which I’d be glad to do if anyone is interested) but I’d like to start off by asking does any other reader have any experience or opinions on this process that our schools are going through?  Looking forward to hearing from any and all.  Bob.

Remove the mapson. from the email address to get to me… I hate Cullers who gather from newsgroups Visit my home page at http://www.esper.com/xvart/index.html

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If what you are describing is the same as I have seen in WV and PA schools then I think that there is a misrepresentation. In these Districts they still have a Vo-Tech school where those interested in technical education such as carpentry, metal working, auto repair/body, etc. can obtain a good basis in these fields. The tech labs are designed to provide younger kids in the Jr. Highs and Middle schools a reasonably good sampling of various technical fields that may be of interest to them as future careers or might interest them in the sciences behind these fields. The labs that I have been in include hydrolics, robotics, electronics, electrical (two different things), and other fields. The kids go from one station to another spending 3 to 6 weeks on each. Woodshop as a general subject for those not interested in it for a career is simply teaching a hobby. Granted, so is pottery and numerous other "subjects" that seem to be able to maintain funding and time in the curriculum after shop is dropped. Maybe woodshop should be redefined as an art so that it can compete in the liberal mindset with pottery, music, etc. However, if our schools are going to return to a focus on preparing kids for careers after school or for higher eductation, the curriculum needs to be focused on such. As long as those with an interest can still obtain a quality techical education in the Vo-Tech programs, I am not sure that woodshop as a curricular subject matter in the academic program makes good use of limited time in school. Dave Hall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – does any other reader have any experience or opinions on this process that our schools are going through?  Looking forward to hearing from any and all.  Bob. Hi Bob, My wife works at a high school that has done the same thing as yours: they "paid" for their computer labs by basically eliminating all their shop classes. What a joke! I really appreciate my computer for communication purposes, but all they are teaching the kids on the computers is how to be hi-tech clerks. Oh, there are a few destined to be techies and programmers, but the bulk of them will be clerks. I had wood, metal and handicraft shops while in junior high school in Southern California. Thank heavens! That, and the love affair with large moving mechanical objects called cars, was the basis for my current ability to solve problems, and build things from scratch, as needed. . .It is a real shame that this current cultural policy of assuming that all the U.S. needs is people who can manipulate keyboards is being foisted off on this generation and those to follow. Kim

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A large school district in our city has reduced the woodworking and metal shops to three with two instructors dividing their time between them.  An instructor I was talking to was told it was a combination of liability and the redirecting of the curricula toward high technology (spelled computers). He couldn’t understand because there was always a shortage of spaces available compared to the students wanting to take the classes. I have always felt that common sense can be gained through practical experience and woodshop is a great place for it.  It also teaches self sufficiency and practical knowledge for the future homeowner and family man. And, it is a good springboard for the future professional woodworker.  I guess these things are no longer important. Dismayed and Disillusioned, Preston — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone.  I’m a junior high wood shop teacher, at least I used to be one. About 5 years ago the district that I work for "phased out" the wood shop in favor of a technology laboratory. (Does everyone know what a technology laboratory is?)   At first I thought it was okay, but the more I use it, the more I detest it (loathe might be a better word) and feel that we are really short changing our students by getting rid of shop, and home economics too. I could go on for many pages (which I’d be glad to do if anyone is interested) but I’d like to start off by asking does any other reader have any experience or opinions on this process that our schools are going through?  Looking forward to hearing from any and all.  Bob.

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Woodshop as a general subject for those not interested in it for a career is simply teaching a hobby.

It teaches much more than "simply" a hobby, although hobbies are certainly in decline these days. It teaches of the union between hand and eye, it teaches practical lessons in physics, in other words, it teaches much more than how to nail two boards together. . .Linguists have long been aware of the direct link between the sensitivity of digital manipulation and the ability for refined speech and critical thinking. As long as those with an interest can still obtain a quality techical education in the Vo-Tech programs, I am not sure that woodshop as a curricular subject matter in the academic program makes good use of limited time in school.

I am not speaking exclusively of producing carpenters, but rather human beings with the ability to think critically, to take a hands on approach to life, rather than thinking all things come from the "store." Training people to be fodder for corporate globalism is not my idea of what it’s all about. . .IMHO. Kim Kim

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I agree completely. — CW KC7NOD

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Woodshop as a general subject for those not interested in it for a career is simply teaching a hobby. It teaches much more than "simply" a hobby, although hobbies are certainly in decline these days. It teaches of the union between hand and eye, it teaches practical lessons in physics, in other words, it teaches much more than how to nail two boards together. . .Linguists have long been aware of the direct link between the sensitivity of digital manipulation and the ability for refined speech and critical thinking. As long as those with an interest can still obtain a quality techical education in the Vo-Tech programs, I am not sure that woodshop as a curricular subject matter in the academic program makes good use of limited time in school. I am not speaking exclusively of producing carpenters, but rather human beings with the ability to think critically, to take a hands on approach to life, rather than thinking all things come from the "store." Training people to be fodder for corporate globalism is not my idea of what it’s all about. . .IMHO. Kim Kim

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I could go on for many pages (which I’d be glad to do if anyone is interested)

Please don’t.  If this is not just another troll, you are likely a US teacher, or perhaps an Ontario teacher.  They follow closely behind all of the mistakes made in the US, since they can’t believe that anyone could be that dumb and feel they must try them for themselves. Actually, the last part is not quite true.  They do it because the diplomats in both government, ministry, and board of ed and yuppy teachers (who really want to get the Hell out of the classroom into the principal’s office and board office at double their salary) need some sort of novel idea to show that they are useful and doing something.  It doesn’t matter what.  They just need "something", so they change for the sake of change. It was made pretty clear that the real education of Joe Average was down the chute when they took him away from (sold all of them) the wood and metal lathe and stuck him in front of the computer typing in WordImperfect.  Just what we need:  a whole bunch of bearded secretaries who can’t knock a nail into a piece of wood if they had all day, or add 2+2 without a calculator. Dan.

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Dave Hall writes: Woodshop as a general subject for those not interested in it for a career is simply teaching a hobby. Granted, so is pottery and numerous other "subjects" that seem to be snip Maybe woodshop should be redefined as an art so that it can compete in the liberal mindset with pottery, music, etc.

Say what?  As a certified liberal woodworker I find your statement absolutely asinine. Too, I’ve been lucky enough to never live in an area where pottery is taught and woodworking is not. Charlie Self Word Worker

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All you have to do now is go to your local convenience store or fast food joint and give the kid behind the counter exact change,or the change above the large bill you just gave them and watch the confusion reign on their faces as they try to figure this strange event out, especially when the ‘puter goes down. Heck, kids in elementary school carry calculators arond with them now. What’s the world coming to. When in High School, I had college-level accounting and only had the old type of calculator; the one with the big handle on the side. I could add up a whole page of debits and credits faster without the calculator than most of my classmates with a calculator. In house building and commercial construction, one is always adding up a series of measurements, often with different fractions,ie; 9′-8 9/16" + 16′-4 1/4" + 7′-0 3/8" = 33′-1 3/16" Of course everyone knows that you have to transmute everything in adding fractions to the common denominator. Well…off to work I go. Got to add up those hurs and tell y boss to keep writing that check til his hand gets tired, then I’ll take over…ha ha.           Mike G.  

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What is happening, in effect, is the complete devaluing (even more than it has been already) of manual labor.  By "manual labor" I mean physical manipulation of things, not just hauling boxes. People would rather have their kids work for minimum wage in a call center on a computer than be a diesel mechanic, because working with your hands is so "gauche" nowadays. Personally, I really hope that my three kids seriously look at vocational school rather than university.  Companies are desperate to find skilled tool-and-die makers, and they make good coin.  I am trying to keep the image of "mechanic as skilled worker" instead of "dirty handed grunt labor" strong in my kids. And now we teach them in school that working with your hands is secondary and unimportant, compared to "keyboarding skills". Sigh. Before you buy.

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The only counter I will make to this is I was raised in a small farming community in Oregon and in the early 70’s I wanted to do electronics and the only choices I had was metal and woodworking. Mind I love woodworking and the classes didn’t really improve my skills because I have a great dad who showed me how to do stuff. I ended up working for a TV repair place and learning electronics kind of on the job (part time). What I find lacking when I talk to my child that she has no interest in learning anything about how stuff works. To me that is the shame on the parents about not getting the kids excited about discovering how things work. — Just my thoughts……Roydan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone.  I’m a junior high wood shop teacher, at least I used to be one. About 5 years ago the district that I work for "phased out" the wood shop in favor of a technology laboratory. (Does everyone know what a technology laboratory is?)   At first I thought it was okay, but the more I use it, the more I detest it (loathe might be a better word) and feel that we are really short changing our students by getting rid of shop, and home economics too.  I could go on for many pages (which I’d be glad to do if anyone is interested) but I’d like to start off by asking does any other reader have any experience or opinions on this process that our schools are going through?  Looking forward to hearing from any and all.  Bob.

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What is happening, in effect, is the complete devaluing (even more than it has been already) of manual labor.  By "manual labor" I mean physical manipulation of things, not just hauling boxes.

Quite the opposite, actually. Our high standard of living is due to automation and its affect on productivity. A car assembler today is many times as productive as a car assembler of the 1920s…but a custom furniture maker is no more productive than his cousin from 80 years ago. Yet he expects to make a decent living, too, despite the fact his productivity makes his product a luxury rather than a necessity. People would rather have their kids work for minimum wage in a call center on a computer than be a diesel mechanic, because working with your hands is so "gauche" nowadays.

Given that being a skilled tradesman pays a lot more than minimum wage, I wonder where you got this idea.

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My daughter goes to me just recently "Dad, why should I work as a plumber when I can go to college, get my commercial flight license, aerospace degree and not get that dirty and have to work crazy hours." She does like to work with her hands (ie. car engines, woodworking, building rockets etc…) but would rather do it as a hobby. In her eyes school shop was a waste, she had already learned it at home. I wish I had the solution and I do not believe that there is a single answer. I do feel that all school districts should have a votec though. Even if one or two districts have to get together to fund it. Just my 2 cents worth ChrisW NE N. Carolina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is happening, in effect, is the complete devaluing (even more than it has been already) of manual labor.  By "manual labor" I mean physical manipulation of things, not just hauling boxes. People would rather have their kids work for minimum wage in a call center on a computer than be a diesel mechanic, because working with your hands is so "gauche" nowadays. Personally, I really hope that my three kids seriously look at vocational school rather than university.  Companies are desperate to find skilled tool-and-die makers, and they make good coin.  I am trying to keep the image of "mechanic as skilled worker" instead of "dirty handed grunt labor" strong in my kids. And now we teach them in school that working with your hands is secondary and unimportant, compared to "keyboarding skills". Sigh. Before you buy.

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My daughter goes to me just recently "Dad, why should I work as a plumber when I can go to college, get my commercial flight license, aerospace degree and not get that dirty and have to work crazy hours." She does like

I hope you enlightened her about crazy flight hours, double shifts, and overnighters in the airline/aerospace businesses, Chris. to work with her hands (ie. car engines, woodworking, building rockets etc…) but would rather do it as a hobby. In her eyes school shop was a waste, she had already learned it at home.

Probably a valid point, but she could have learned more 1) from a teacher other than Dad, and 2) by helping others learn. I love my dad and learned lots from him, but others had other info which was just as important. I wish I had the solution and I do not believe that there is a single answer. I do feel that all school districts should have a votec though. Even if one or two districts have to get together to fund it.

Agreed. These are skills which should never die. I took wood shop, metal shop, mechanical drawing, and basic aviation in school and feel that I’m a better man from each of the four classes. Unfortunately, the term "Homo Sapiens" is a goal, not a description.                                 —-                                       http://www.diversify.com    Web Design for YOUR Business!        

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How many examples of stupidity are we willing to accept from the public school systems. MHO: All school administrators, board members, many teachers and the majority of the parents are morons! To prove my point compare the language of the Gettysburg Address to any public announcement from the schools. Want better schools? Kick the Federal Government out and return to local control. Tell the liberals to go to Hell and start educating.

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Well, MY daughter decided to forgo college (after 2 1/2 yrs) to go to work in my industry ( trade show exhibit installations). Jon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter goes to me just recently "Dad, why should I work as a plumber when I can go to college, get my commercial flight license, aerospace degree and not get that dirty and have to work crazy hours." She does like to work with her hands (ie. car engines, woodworking, building rockets etc…) but would rather do it as a hobby. In her eyes school shop was a waste, she had already learned it at home. I wish I had the solution and I do not believe that there is a single answer. I do feel that all school districts should have a votec though. Even if one or two districts have to get together to fund it. Just my 2 cents worth ChrisW NE N. Carolina What is happening, in effect, is the complete devaluing (even more than it has been already) of manual labor.  By "manual labor" I mean physical manipulation of things, not just hauling boxes. People would rather have their kids work for minimum wage in a call center on a computer than be a diesel mechanic, because working with your hands is so "gauche" nowadays. Personally, I really hope that my three kids seriously look at vocational school rather than university.  Companies are desperate to find skilled tool-and-die makers, and they make good coin.  I am trying to keep the image of "mechanic as skilled worker" instead of "dirty handed grunt labor" strong in my kids. And now we teach them in school that working with your hands is secondary and unimportant, compared to "keyboarding skills". Sigh. Before you buy.

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<<Heavy Snips What is happening, in effect, is the complete devaluing (even more than it has been already) of manual labor. Quite the opposite, actually. Our high standard of living is due to automation and its affect on productivity. A car assembler today is many times as productive as a car assembler of the 1920s…but a custom furniture maker is no more productive than his cousin from 80 years ago. Yet he expects to make a decent living, too, despite the fact his productivity makes his product a luxury rather than a necessity.

Hmm… Clarity problem.  I wasn’t talking about product when I mentioned "value".  I was thinking purely along the lines that being a "dirty hands" kind of trade is not held in as high a regard as it used to be, be it plumber, electrician, HVAC, whatever.  I was not attempting to imply that merely because someone works with their hands that their work *should* be valuable. People would rather have their kids work for minimum wage in a call center on a computer than be a diesel mechanic, because working with your hands is so "gauche" nowadays. Given that being a skilled tradesman pays a lot more than minimum wage, I wonder where you got this idea.

Uh, okay.  Given that when a child stands up and says "Dad, I want to be an (X)", parents initial reaction is usually not to whip out the "average wages per profession" tables and gauge potential incomes.  My kids could make a Jillion as a (insert dangerous high risk job here) but it doesn’t mean that I’d be instantly happy if they decided to do so. There are attitudes and perceptions attached to any occupation, and theses have changed in recent years to weigh more positively on "brain" jobs as opposed to "hands" jobs, independent of wages. –Kirby Before you buy.

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kerf writes: Want better schools? Kick the Federal Government out and return to local control. Tell the liberals to go to Hell and start educating.

We got a local problem following those strictures, kerf.  Us liberals are so much in the minority here that the school system has had to get screwed up by itself.  Or was that by the conservatives? Charlie Self Word Worker

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and pecked: kerf writes: Want better schools? Kick the Federal Government out and return to local control. Tell the liberals to go to Hell and start educating. We got a local problem following those strictures, kerf.  Us liberals are so much in the minority here that the school system has had to get screwed up by itself.  Or was that by the conservatives?

That’s "We liberals" (you guys, not me) and the system was surely done-in it by said minority. The conservatives only screw ‘em up then they follow the SCRIPtures, and we all know they’re kept out of schools. <bseg obww: Are new trees killed to produce revisionist history books? Unfortunately, the term "Homo Sapiens" is a goal, not a description.                                 —-                                       http://www.diversify.com    Web Design for YOUR Business!        

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Most school boards and administrations are controlled by flaming liberals. Their solution is to throw more and more money into the system. Not so the education will improve but because that will ensure their continued employment and justify their useless existance. How was it that until the early 60’s the US managed to produce functionally literate individuals? My solution is radical. Return to the classical education of math, language (including Latin), science, history and the arts. End the open campus  and make achievement mandatory for advancement. School should be tough, otherwise just give everyone a diploma and let industry worry about it. Another trend that just frosts my monkeys is the way media and ploiticians pander to the children. Seeking answers from them to solve the world’s problems. These are children who are in or barely out of puberty. Their world is videos and baggy pants. No wonder the world is screwed up. The president looks for solutions from kids on MTV. And, what’s the most memorable question the kids asked Clinton? Boxers or briefs?   Can’t you guys see how screwed up the whole mess is?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many examples of stupidity are we willing to accept from the public school systems. MHO: All school administrators, board members, many teachers and the majority of the parents are morons! To prove my point compare the language of the Gettysburg Address to any public announcement from the schools. Want better schools? Kick the Federal Government out and return to local control. Tell the liberals to go to Hell and start educating.

A wise and well reasoned analysis of the issues and possible corrective actions. A product of the public school system, I am sure. Dave Hall

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Most school boards and administrations are controlled by flaming liberals. Their solution is to throw more and more money into the system. Not so the education will improve but because that will ensure their continued employment and justify their useless existance. How was it that until the early 60’s the US managed to produce functionally literate individuals?

If you had the strength of your own convictions, you’d kill your television.

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Unfortunately, the major power is neither the feds nor the local boards, but the NEA and its teacher college system.  As a previously degreed individual enrolled in a teacher certification curriculum, I was sickened by the number of times the future educators asked the profs either of two questions: "Do we have to know this for the exam?"                           "What does this have to do with being a teacher?" The gray hair could only keep saying life is cumulative, and nothing you learn is ever wasted.  Not that they listened.  It wasn’t going to be on the exam.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Want better schools? Kick the Federal Government out and return to local control. Tell the liberals to go to Hell and start educating. We got a local problem following those strictures, kerf.  Us liberals are so much in the minority here that the school system has had to get screwed up by itself.  Or was that by the conservatives?

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Another trend that just frosts my monkeys is the way media and ploiticians pander to the children. Seeking answers from them to solve the world’s problems. These are children who are in or barely out of puberty. Their world is videos and baggy pants.

Oh that takes me back… I haven’t had a good frosted monkey in years. Probably not the same any more, though. Multinational conglomerate that doesn’t know the difference between a good frosted monkey and a simple chilled ape. Ah, well, best to breed your own, I suppose. No wonder the world is screwed up. The president looks for solutions from kids on MTV. And, what’s the most memorable question the kids asked Clinton? Boxers or briefs? Can’t you guys see how screwed up the whole mess is?

I can see someone who selectively remembers one stupid, offhand question asked by the MTV kids and conveniently ignores their other serious, penetrating, non-journalist questions. You’re biased if you say the glass is half full or half empty. It’s just half a glass of water, nothing more or less. — Guy Finney

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some feedback on my career path in Accounting. Can anyone help me out, in terms of my chances of me getting a job (ie is the job market for accountants good, or does it suck?) preferably in the Big 5 and the kind of salary I should accept as fair with my background and experience? Right now, I’m getting a Master’s degree in Accounting/ Finance. Secondly, I am planning to take the CPA exam in May 2000 and I want to take a review course in January.  I am currently looking at the Becker CPA review.  I know that there is the live instruction ($1600) and there is the CD-rom instruction ($1300).  Does anyone know if the Becker course is any good?  If it is, is the live instruction or CD-rom instruction better to take? Thanks, Eric

  Eric, since you’ll be right out of school (as far as the relevant companies are concerned), I would definitely post resumes at the job sites which specialize in new grads. Employers who are happy to take on someone with less experience will be looking here. Www.JobDirect.com is I believe the flagship site of this kind, but there are others too if you look around. That doesn’t mean you should ignore other routes, but this is a total no brainer.             Luck – Bruce

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It was true 20 years ago and is true today. If one wants to pursue a career in public accounting they should first pass the exam.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, so you can pass the CPA exam. This might have been good 10 or 20 years ago. Today, to really get ahead, you have to develop business acumen or be able to sell and sell, and sell. Also, you may need additional certifications (if you can’t get the experience which is usually the case) in IT applications. I would have recommended SAP two years ago(believe it or not it’s the best thing thay happened to chemical companies in recent years), but today it’s a done deal. So, the next great thing seems more of a gamble: internet, business intelligence, IT systems integration. Don’t despair, chemical formulas are very similar to object programming formulas, they have to be compatible or "like" each other to react to communicate. As an entry level auditor, don’t expect riches too soon. CPA MBA SAP and Microsoft certified Oh my god, I see my own life flashing across the screen. 27 years ago I graduated with a BS degree in chemistry and after sending out several hundred resumes and obtaining one interview after a year of searching, I realized that I would never get a job in chemistry. I remember the interview,  the asshole interviewing me asked me to write the structure of vitamin A on a blackboard. Needless to say I didn’t get the job. I should have known it would be impossible to get a job since the job market was flooded with PhDs (The war was still going on and the government was giving out deferments for those attending graduate school.) I went back to school and became a CPA. Always hated it,  after all, in my heart, I was a scientist not an accountant. As far as taking a review course take the live option. The live course will give you the opportunity to be with others who are also aspiring to pass the exam and is a great motivator. Becker CPA has been around for a long time as has a fine reputation. I myself took the Person Wolinsky course and found it excellent. Just my own two cents but the three must important things you can do to further your career in public accounting are: 1. Pass the exam 2. Pass the exam 3. And last but not least pass the exam. Allan Martin, CPA/Defrocked Scientist. I need some feedback on my career path in Accounting. Can anyone help me out, in terms of my chances of me getting a job (ie is the job market for accountants good, or does it suck?) preferably in the Big 5 and the kind of salary I should accept as fair with my background and experience? Right now, I’m getting a Master’s degree in Accounting/ Finance. Secondly, I am planning to take the CPA exam in May 2000 and I want to take a review course in January.  I am currently looking at the Becker CPA review.  I know that there is the live instruction ($1600) and there is the CD-rom instruction ($1300).  Does anyone know if the Becker course is any good?  If it is, is the live instruction or CD-rom instruction better to take? Thanks, Eric My background (FYI)-  please feel free to give me direct feedback  As a background, I started out in engineering for two years, found out that it was too hard, so I switched to Chemistry (which I found out is really not any easier, but by then I knew HOW to study more effeciently. Anyway, I graduated from University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, in Dec. 1996 with a BS in chem and average grades (B, C) UM Career and placement office didnt do shit for me ( and I knew that I was not the only one experiencing this). Interviewed at a few small places (crappy environment, low pay, temp work, etc.). There was even a place where I interviewed where the people w/ chem engin degrees (labelled as quality control engineers) were making $10/ hr. in a dingy environment (a curse upon the individual). Anyway, in June of 1997, I found out I was eligible to renew my state tuition waiver (from undergrad) grant in order to go to grad school. Now , I knew that no chem. grad school would take me because of my grades. I also knew I could get a PHD. and work my ass off and still be unemployed. So, I decided to use the grant to go to one of the local universities to get a graduate degree (Masters) in Accounting / Finance. The office of grad studies figured that if I could handle chemistry, I could definetely handle business. So here I am now in grad school with several internships under my belt (General Motors, BDO Seidman CPA firm LLP, which pays pretty well) . Internships were not even availablle to me as a chem undergrad. I look in the newspapers and I see lots of opportunities for accounting/ finance majors ( a hell of a lot more than chemists). Currently going to school full time with the grant that pays all of my tuition and will graduate in May, 2000. Will take the CPA exam the term before I graduate. Was a waste of time getting a chem degree, but live and learn. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Okay, so you can pass the CPA exam. This might have been good 10 or 20 years ago. Today, to really get ahead, you have to develop business acumen or be able to sell and sell, and sell. Also, you may need additional certifications (if you can’t get the experience which is usually the case) in IT applications. I would have recommended SAP two years ago(believe it or not it’s the best thing thay happened to chemical companies in recent years), but today it’s a done deal. So, the next great thing seems more of a gamble: internet, business intelligence, IT systems integration. Don’t despair, chemical formulas are very similar to object programming formulas, they have to be compatible or "like" each other to react to communicate. As an entry level auditor, don’t expect riches too soon. CPA MBA SAP and Microsoft certified – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh my god, I see my own life flashing across the screen. 27 years ago I graduated with a BS degree in chemistry and after sending out several hundred resumes and obtaining one interview after a year of searching, I realized that I would never get a job in chemistry. I remember the interview,  the asshole interviewing me asked me to write the structure of vitamin A on a blackboard. Needless to say I didn’t get the job. I should have known it would be impossible to get a job since the job market was flooded with PhDs (The war was still going on and the government was giving out deferments for those attending graduate school.) I went back to school and became a CPA. Always hated it,  after all, in my heart, I was a scientist not an accountant. As far as taking a review course take the live option. The live course will give you the opportunity to be with others who are also aspiring to pass the exam and is a great motivator. Becker CPA has been around for a long time as has a fine reputation. I myself took the Person Wolinsky course and found it excellent. Just my own two cents but the three must important things you can do to further your career in public accounting are: 1. Pass the exam 2. Pass the exam 3. And last but not least pass the exam. Allan Martin, CPA/Defrocked Scientist. I need some feedback on my career path in Accounting. Can anyone help me out, in terms of my chances of me getting a job (ie is the job market for accountants good, or does it suck?) preferably in the Big 5 and the kind of salary I should accept as fair with my background and experience? Right now, I’m getting a Master’s degree in Accounting/ Finance. Secondly, I am planning to take the CPA exam in May 2000 and I want to take a review course in January.  I am currently looking at the Becker CPA review.  I know that there is the live instruction ($1600) and there is the CD-rom instruction ($1300).  Does anyone know if the Becker course is any good?  If it is, is the live instruction or CD-rom instruction better to take? Thanks, Eric My background (FYI)-  please feel free to give me direct feedback  As a background, I started out in engineering for two years, found out that it was too hard, so I switched to Chemistry (which I found out is really not any easier, but by then I knew HOW to study more effeciently. Anyway, I graduated from University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, in Dec. 1996 with a BS in chem and average grades (B, C) UM Career and placement office didnt do shit for me ( and I knew that I was not the only one experiencing this). Interviewed at a few small places (crappy environment, low pay, temp work, etc.). There was even a place where I interviewed where the people w/ chem engin degrees (labelled as quality control engineers) were making $10/ hr. in a dingy environment (a curse upon the individual). Anyway, in June of 1997, I found out I was eligible to renew my state tuition waiver (from undergrad) grant in order to go to grad school. Now , I knew that no chem. grad school would take me because of my grades. I also knew I could get a PHD. and work my ass off and still be unemployed. So, I decided to use the grant to go to one of the local universities to get a graduate degree (Masters) in Accounting / Finance. The office of grad studies figured that if I could handle chemistry, I could definetely handle business. So here I am now in grad school with several internships under my belt (General Motors, BDO Seidman CPA firm LLP, which pays pretty well) . Internships were not even availablle to me as a chem undergrad. I look in the newspapers and I see lots of opportunities for accounting/ finance majors ( a hell of a lot more than chemists). Currently going to school full time with the grant that pays all of my tuition and will graduate in May, 2000. Will take the CPA exam the term before I graduate. Was a waste of time getting a chem degree, but live and learn.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Oh my god, I see my own life flashing across the screen. 27 years ago I graduated with a BS degree in chemistry and after sending out several hundred resumes and obtaining one interview after a year of searching, I realized that I would never get a job in chemistry. I remember the interview,  the asshole interviewing me asked me to write the structure of vitamin A on a blackboard. Needless to say I didn’t get the job. I should have known it would be impossible to get a job since the job market was flooded with PhDs (The war was still going on and the government was giving out deferments for those attending graduate school.) I went back to school and became a CPA. Always hated it,  after all,  in my heart, I was a scientist not an accountant. As far as taking a review course take the live option. The live course will give you the opportunity to be with others who are also aspiring to pass the exam and is a great motivator. Becker CPA has been around for a long time as has a fine reputation. I myself took the Person Wolinsky course and found it excellent. Just my own two cents but the three must important things you can do to further your career in public accounting are: 1. Pass the exam 2. Pass the exam 3. And last but not least pass the exam. Allan Martin, CPA/Defrocked Scientist.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some feedback on my career path in Accounting. Can anyone help me out, in terms of my chances of me getting a job (ie is the job market for accountants good, or does it suck?) preferably in the Big 5 and the kind of salary I should accept as fair with my background and experience? Right now, I’m getting a Master’s degree in Accounting/ Finance. Secondly, I am planning to take the CPA exam in May 2000 and I want to take a review course in January.  I am currently looking at the Becker CPA review.  I know that there is the live instruction ($1600) and there is the CD-rom instruction ($1300).  Does anyone know if the Becker course is any good?  If it is, is the live instruction or CD-rom instruction better to take? Thanks, Eric My background (FYI)-  please feel free to give me direct feedback  As a background, I started out in engineering for two years, found out that it was too hard, so I switched to Chemistry (which I found out is really not any easier, but by then I knew HOW to study more effeciently. Anyway, I graduated from University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, in Dec. 1996 with a BS in chem and average grades (B, C) UM Career and placement office didnt do shit for me ( and I knew that I was not the only one experiencing this). Interviewed at a few small places (crappy environment, low pay, temp work, etc.). There was even a place where I interviewed where the people w/ chem engin degrees (labelled as quality control engineers) were making $10/ hr. in a dingy environment (a curse upon the individual). Anyway, in June of 1997, I found out I was eligible to renew my state tuition waiver (from undergrad) grant in order to go to grad school. Now , I knew that no chem. grad school would take me because of my grades. I also knew I could get a PHD. and work my ass off and still be unemployed. So, I decided to use the grant to go to one of the local universities to get a graduate degree (Masters) in Accounting / Finance. The office of grad studies figured that if I could handle chemistry, I could definetely handle business. So here I am now in grad school with several internships under my belt (General Motors, BDO Seidman CPA firm LLP, which pays pretty well) . Internships were not even availablle to me as a chem undergrad. I look in the newspapers and I see lots of opportunities for accounting/ finance majors ( a hell of a lot more than chemists). Currently going to school full time with the grant that pays all of my tuition and will graduate in May, 2000. Will take the CPA exam the term before I graduate. Was a waste of time getting a chem degree, but live and learn.

Response:

I need some feedback on my career path in Accounting. Can anyone help me out, in terms of my chances of me getting a job (ie is the job market for accountants good, or does it suck?) preferably in the Big 5 and the kind of salary I should accept as fair with my background and experience? Right now, I’m getting a Master’s degree in Accounting/ Finance. Secondly, I am planning to take the CPA exam in May 2000 and I want to take a review course in January.  I am currently looking at the Becker CPA review.  I know that there is the live instruction ($1600) and there is the CD-rom instruction ($1300).  Does anyone know if the Becker course is any good?  If it is, is the live instruction or CD-rom instruction better to take? Thanks, Eric My background (FYI)-  please feel free to give me direct feedback  As a background, I started out in engineering for two years, found out that it was too hard, so I switched to Chemistry (which I found out is really not any easier, but by then I knew HOW to study more effeciently. Anyway, I graduated from University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, in Dec. 1996 with a BS in chem and average grades (B, C) UM Career and placement office didnt do shit for me ( and I knew that I was not the only one experiencing this). Interviewed at a few small places (crappy environment, low pay, temp work, etc.). There was even a place where I interviewed where the people w/ chem engin degrees (labelled as quality control engineers) were making $10/ hr. in a dingy environment (a curse upon the individual). Anyway, in June of 1997, I found out I was eligible to renew my state tuition waiver (from undergrad) grant in order to go to grad school. Now , I knew that no chem. grad school would take me because of my grades. I also knew I could get a PHD. and work my ass off and still be unemployed. So, I decided to use the grant to go to one of the local universities to get a graduate degree (Masters) in Accounting / Finance. The office of grad studies figured that if I could handle chemistry, I could definetely handle business. So here I am now in grad school with several internships under my belt (General Motors, BDO Seidman CPA firm LLP, which pays pretty well) . Internships were not even availablle to me as a chem undergrad. I look in the newspapers and I see lots of opportunities for accounting/ finance majors ( a hell of a lot more than chemists). Currently going to school full time with the grant that pays all of my tuition and will graduate in May, 2000. Will take the CPA exam the term before I graduate. Was a waste of time getting a chem degree, but live and learn.

Response:

Question:

Any MYOB users here?  Anyone knows of any MYOB discussion groups?

Response:

Any MYOB users here?  Anyone knows of any MYOB discussion groups?

Smartgroups. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= East/West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Smartgroups.com has Simply Accounting and MYOB groups…. — Stephanie Serba, AICIA Partner, Durham Business Outsource Accounting & Technology smserba <at dbo <dot ca www.dbo.ca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any MYOB users here?  Anyone knows of any MYOB discussion groups?

Response:

can u help looking 4 p/t work with MYOB Aust.

Response:

can u help looking 4 p/t work with MYOB Aust.

You might want to start with an English class.   "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address.     —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

where are u, bruce? what experience do you have? do you know premier version 7.0?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can u help looking 4 p/t work with MYOB Aust.

Response:

Can anyone tell me where to download a evaluation copy of myob Mick

Response:

<<Can anyone tell me where to download a evaluation copy of myob For US: http://www.bestware.com For the rest of the world: http://myob.com Tom –Solving your tax and business problems with Professional Service…Personal Attention Web: http://members.aol.com/thealycpa/Tom_Healy_CPA.html

Response:

Me too.  I’m just starting and a newsgroup for MYOB would be wonderful. It’s hard to pick something out of a large newsgroup like alt.accounting. Especially when you don’t know enough to know what you’re looking for.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a newcomer to MYOB and a newcomer to business accounting, my wish-list is simple – a MYOB newsgroup!

Response:

I second that, Sal Trinchillo

Response:

I’m just starting and a newsgroup for MYOB would be wonderful. It’s hard to pick something out of a large newsgroup like alt.accounting.

The best place to get MYOB information is to subscribe to the MYOB mailing list at: http://www.egroups.com/myob Many of the members are in Australia (which just went through a horrendous tax change to a goods and services tax)  or Canada, but a few of us are in the US. Join up and ask your questions! Tom –Solving your tax and business problems with Professional Service…Personal Attention Web: http://members.aol.com/thealycpa/Tom_Healy_CPA.html

Response:

You can’t post payments in advance to the sales ledger or purchase ledger. I do this all the time for advance customer deposits: create an invoice with the only thing on it being the payment. Make it a pending invoice. When you next want to create an invoice for the customer (i.e., when you are doing the work), MYOB reminds you there is an invoice already available. Pull it up, change the date to today’s date. The deposit is credited against the invoice using "settle credits." Tom

As I said: "Unfortunately, the package seems to be built around a few types of transactions and anything else has to be fudged in a very complicated way." I know several accounting packages that allow you to post payments in advance without any of the above messing about. Why can’t MYOB do it? — Peter Saxton from London

Response:

Thank you very much for your input my partner and I also came across some of those problems but overlooked them for the draft of our report. Thank you Kris * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

As a newcomer to MYOB and a newcomer to business accounting, my wish-list is simple – a MYOB newsgroup! — Mark Macca inTouch web services http://www.intouchweb.com.au/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just used MYOB for an accounting assignment and found it quite useful.  My assignment also needs to include a written report on using MYOB it should include stuff like problems using the system, and trick you found that helped you etc. Does anyone have anything to contribute to the MYOB package? -what annoyed you about? -what did you find helpful? -any improvements needed? what were your experiences with MYOB? * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

You can’t post payments in advance to the sales ledger or purchase ledger.

I do this all the time for advance customer deposits: create an invoice with the only thing on it being the payment. Make it a pending invoice. When you next want to create an invoice for the customer (i.e., when you are doing the work), MYOB reminds you there is an invoice already available. Pull it up, change the date to today’s date. The deposit is credited against the invoice using "settle credits." Tom –Solving your tax and business problems with Professional Service…Personal Attention Web: http://members.aol.com/thealycpa/Tom_Healy_CPA.html

Response:

Having used MYOB on a Mac for the past 7 years here’s my wish list: 1 – Improved networking speed. (The program was conceived as a single user and it still shows) 2 – Lot numbers for inventory items. To better keep track of inventory quantities and aging. That’s it for now. Sal Trinchillo

Response:

I have just used MYOB for an accounting assignment and found it quite useful.  My assignment also needs to include a written report on using MYOB it should include stuff like problems using the system, and trick you found that helped you etc. Does anyone have anything to contribute to the MYOB package? -what annoyed you about? -what did you find helpful? -any improvements needed? what were your experiences with MYOB? * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

I have just used MYOB for an accounting assignment and found it quite useful.  My assignment also needs to include a written report on using MYOB it should include stuff like problems using the system, and trick you found that helped you etc. Does anyone have anything to contribute to the MYOB package? -what annoyed you about? -what did you find helpful? -any improvements needed? what were your experiences with MYOB?

The best thing about MYOB is the recurring transactions. You save a tramsaction and can use it again for future transactions, usually the same payment, supplier, customer or journal Unfortunately, the package seems to be built around a few types of transactions and anything else has to be fudged in a very complicated way. You can’t post payments in advance to the sales ledger or purchase ledger. If you run the normal debtor or creditor report it will ask you for the date for the report and promplty ignore it and show you the latest position. You need to run the debtor/creditor reconciliation report which will also show your differences between that ledger and the nominal ledger. It’ll only show the total difference and it’s not easy working out where the problem is. Because MYOB has such a weird way of working, if there is a problem it’s difficult to know what reports to rely on when investigating. I’m in the UK and MYOB (along with QuickBooks) is one of the worst accounts packages for technical support. — Peter Saxton from London

Response:

Does any know of a news group covering MYOB Accounting by Datatech?

  vcard.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Does any know of a news group covering MYOB Accounting by Datatech?

If you mean MYOB (by Bestware), they do have technical support on CompuServe — the ACCVEN forum (Accounting Vendor).

Response:

Have you tried Quick Books Pro 6.0? Thanks, Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the MYOB suite of programs (Australian Version) suitable for setting up a public bookkeeping practice with? Any one with any experience of this or similar with multi client files??????? Thanx

Response:

If you are in Australia, MYOB is much preferable, as it is Australian Owned, and conforms fully to our local tax laws. it also outsells QB here, and many Australian Accountants have the software. You can also export your transactions to Solution 6, CeeData and Teletax, the most common public accountants software in this country. Raoul Dunk Salisbury, SA "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." — Aristotle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Have you tried Quick Books Pro 6.0? Thanks, Steve Is the MYOB suite of programs (Australian Version) suitable for setting up a public bookkeeping practice with? Any one with any experience of this or similar with multi client files??????? Thanx

Response:

Is the MYOB suite of programs (Australian Version) suitable for setting up a public bookkeeping practice with?

Yes, but for *ease* and ***speed*** of use, I’d recommend Pastel V3. Now superceded by V4 and 5 (which would be a total overkill), it is still supported and is Y2000 compliant. A great little package for a similar price. Works in both DOS and Windows 3.1+. Regards, Mike      <<<<<<  MIKE FISHER & ASSOCIATES                                      …oOo…                "The Help Line for Small Business"  Computer, Accounting and Bookkeeping Support in NQ                 Ph (07) 4779 6761 or 018 180 684                    www.ozemail.com.au/~mfisher

Response:

Is the MYOB suite of programs (Australian Version) suitable for setting up a public bookkeeping practice with? Any one with any experience of this or similar with multi client files??????? Thanx

Response:

Question:

As a state tax auditor, I can wholeheartedly agree with this.  Can’t believe the lousy "bookkeeping and accounting" services that some small businesses pay for and think they are getting things done right.  Until I have to tell them, they owe the state money. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are a lot of people less qualified than you [probably] are doing it….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is absolutely no ethical problem with performing this service provided you hold yourself out as a bookkeeper or enrolled agent and not as a CPA or PA.  I did the very same thing in college, the money and experience were both extremely helpful. Could you provide any good advice on how to go about conducting my business as a bookkeeper, like where to find clients and how to solicate them? Any info would be greatly appreciated! Best Regards Tony

Tony I have worked as a tax preparer for 20 years.  I just this year received my associate degree in accounting.  My work has been on the side and now I am adding accounting and invice billing.  It seems to be

Response:

There are a lot of people less qualified than you [probably] are doing it…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently in my junior year at college, majoring in accounting. I wanted to begin a part-time bookkeeping/tax service practice as a way to help finance my eduction. My question, is it wrong for an undegreed person to do bookkeeping as a professional? I did my fathers books at his restuarant for seven years and have been with VITA for three years and have been an enrolled agent for just as long. Thank you in advance for your replys. Regards, Tony

Response:

There is absolutely no ethical problem with performing this service provided you hold yourself out as a bookkeeper or enrolled agent and not as a CPA or PA.  I did the very same thing in college, the money and experience were both extremely helpful.

Could you provide any good advice on how to go about conducting my business as a bookkeeper, like where to find clients and how to solicate them? Any info would be greatly appreciated! Best Regards Tony

Response:

In my case, I happened to know a friend of my older brother who was starting out as a chiropracter.  He had a few friends also starting out in the same profession who needed bookkeeping assistance.  Another avenue you might explore besides personal acquaintances is small CPA firms who may have clients that need help, but the CPA firm is too expensive for them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could you provide any good advice on how to go about conducting my business as a bookkeeper, like where to find clients and how to solicate them? Any info would be greatly appreciated! Best Regards Tony

Response:

I am currently in my junior year at college, majoring in accounting. I wanted to begin a part-time bookkeeping/tax service practice as a way to help finance my eduction. My question, is it wrong for an undegreed person to do bookkeeping as a professional? I did my fathers books at his restuarant for seven years and have been with VITA for three years and have been an enrolled agent for just as long. Thank you in advance for your replys. Regards, Tony

Response:

There is absolutely no ethical problem with performing this service provided you hold yourself out as a bookkeeper or enrolled agent and not as a CPA or PA.  I did the very same thing in college, the money and experience were both extremely helpful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently in my junior year at college, majoring in accounting. I wanted to begin a part-time bookkeeping/tax service practice as a way to help finance my eduction. My question, is it wrong for an undegreed person to do bookkeeping as a professional? I did my fathers books at his restuarant for seven years and have been with VITA for three years and have been an enrolled agent for just as long. Thank you in advance for your replys. Regards, Tony

Response:

Question:

I’ve just had the same problem over here in Europe. For me it was between The longest day(UK) and Lanzarote. Neither are easy, but Lanzarote has tropical temperatures and lots of hills and lots of wind. I’m therefore going to do the longest day for which the conditions should be easier.

Response:

And which is considered the easiest course, accounting for heat, hills, etc.?

IMO: There are too many uncontrollable factors that make each race experience unique – - even over the same course.  If you listen to the folks who have done multiple races, they often distinguish each of them by referring to an unexpected event that changed the whole approach to the race. For example, "…that cool year in Hawaii.", or "…the year the truck dropped a load of roofing nails in the road."  or "…the year of the thunderstorms.". rsquared

Response:

There is no such thing as an easy ironman. Each one is an incredible challenge. Because you have no way of knowing in advance what the weather will be like, you cannot pick and choose an "easy" race. Cathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And which is considered the easiest course, accounting for heat, hills, etc.?

Response:

BRMJM1) writes: I’m not sure if there is an easy Ironman……

That one I watched on TV didn’t take much out of me…. Christopher Coghlan -B.S.M.E. Notre Dame ‘95 -M.S.M.E. Lehigh, ‘98 -Lehigh  Assistant Varsity Cross Country Coach -Team Tiger Balm Endurance 1997, 1998

Response:

I’m not sure if there is an easy Ironman……

Response:

There is no such thing as an easy ironman. Each one is an incredible challenge. Because you have no way of knowing in advance what the weather will be like, you cannot pick and choose an "easy" race. Cathy And which is considered the easiest course, accounting for heat, hills, etc.?

I am in complete agreement with Cathy – there really is no such thing as an easy Ironman. It does not matter where you swam 2.5 miles , cycled 112 miles and then ran a marathon, you will be trashed. However, if one looks purely at the various courses, available in North America as the original poster was asking, I would have to say that the Esprit Triathlon in Montreal is the easiest of the Ironman or Ironman distance events. Straight out and back swim in sheltered calm water(an old rowing basin). Almost completely flat 112 mile cycle on the Formula One race circut on the Ile de Notre Dame and flat marathon run on the same circut. Now the caveat here is that this is a multiple lap course for the bike and run. I believe that the circut is only 2 – 3 miles. Hence you are doing a lot a laps and that can get boring after a while I would think. That could be a negative. However, I hear that it is a great well run race. Steve Fleck

Response:

There is no such thing as an easy ironman. Each one is an incredible challenge. Because you have no way of knowing in advance what the weather will be like, you cannot pick and choose an "easy" race. Cathy

This is incredibly facetious of me not having done an Ironman, but in the realm of Ironman length races, my many friends who have done various IM’s, the Esprit in Canada is by far the most controlled environment, and therefore by their opinions, the "easiest".  The bike is 15 loops of a oval bike track, and the run is also some multiple loops of this track.   One of the reasons Esprit is not a "WTC sanctioned" race is precisely because of this environment…it’s pretty tough to bike a short track without drafting, and outside assistance is definitely allowed for athletes. In fact, my amigos say that Esprit has the highest number of funny bikes used at any Ironman…I don’t doubt it. They also indicated it’s quite a fun race with a huge turnout of cheering spectators.  That being said, it’s still an Ironman length race. And as Cathy says, there’s no such thing as an "easy" IM race.   Chaz

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The only ironman races I am aware of that take place in North America are:     Ironman Canada     Vineman Triathlon     Great Floridian Are there others in North America? And which is considered the easiest course, accounting for heat, hills, etc.?

Response:

The only ironman races I am aware of that take place in North America are:    Ironman Canada    Vineman Triathlon    Great Floridian Are there others in North America?

How about the Esprit (?) Ironman in Canada….Montreal, I believe. Greg Pressler

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Question:

I would like to learn first hand how to calculate all of the financial parameters, such as Internal Rate of Return, Return on Equity, Return on Investment, etc.  Is there any good book to recommend that goes through the derivation and explanation of these formulas?

Check out "Anthony, Reece & Hertenstein – Accounting: Text and Cases". It is written for users of accounting info, and it has down-to-earth explainations of almost everything. I am an engineer.

Response:

I would like to learn first hand how to calculate all of the financial parameters, such as Internal Rate of Return, Return on Equity, Return on Investment, etc.  Is there any good book to recommend that goes through the derivation and explanation of these formulas?

You might try going to a used bookstore or a resale shop (thrift store) and see if they have any accounting books. I got a real nice college accounting book at a local thrift store for about $1.00. jamess

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I would like to learn first hand how to calculate all of the financial parameters, such as Internal Rate of Return, Return on Equity, Return on Investment, etc.  Is there any good book to recommend that goes through the derivation and explanation of these formulas?

Warren, Goram & Lamot (and the spelling of the publishers names is probably way off) used to publish a massive tome that gave look up tables for most of the functions, and contained an explaniation of the math underneath them. Just the formulas, and some explaniation probably can be found in any post secondary finance text. gud luk es cul de WB3FUP

Response:

I would like to learn first hand how to calculate all of the financial parameters, such as Internal Rate of Return, Return on Equity, Return on Investment, etc.  Is there any good book to recommend that goes through the derivation and explanation of these formulas? FWIW, I’m a math major and *want* the nitty gritty details of the math. However, I could also use explanation of how to use these numbers in real world situations. Thanks in advance.

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Question:

Got so tired of feeling angry at him, so I wrote and sent this letter today, with cc’s to the manager of the office where he works and my T.                                                     April 3, 1998 C Health Center I remain in a state of disbelief with regard to your treatment of me for my breathing difficulties. On January 12, 1998 you questioned me with regard to depression when I was there to see you about a breathing problem. I found that to be patronizing, discounting, and insulting to my intelligence.  In addition it was in direct conflict with my t’pist’s request.  In a telephone conversation she told you that both she and I would like you to not attempt to get involved with my emotional issues. That day you did not  sit down to talk to me, you did not listen to my breathing, you simply asked me about depression, gave me some Combivent which did nothing to help, and excused yourself. Having emotional problems does not mean that a person cannot also have physical problems.  Having emotional problems does not mean that a person is not intelligent. I am a CPA, I have a masters degree in Accounting, am presently working on a masters degree at U in Computer Science and Engineering.  I belong to Mensa – the high IQ club with an IQ  higher than what is necessary to be eligible for membership. The next day, January 13, I came in for a breathing treatment.  I had gotten an ok from the nurse I spoke with on the phone.  While I was waiting for the nurse to set up the nebulizer, you walked in and without a greeting listened to me breathe and told me "You’re not very bad," referring to my breathing. Well, as I told you then, every single time I had felt as I did that morning my breathing had done nothing but get worse and worse and worse.  I told you that I hated to wait until it got as bad as it had been the previous day when I was unable to even speak. You didn’t say much. The next day I called your office because I wanted another breathing treatment.  I told the nurse my peak flow was 400 and that every time I’d felt that badly my breathing got worse and worse. The message relayed from you by your nurse was that 400 is a fine peak flow. It might interest you to know that the pulmonologist I am seeing has given me instructions that should my peak flow drop to 400, I should start using the nebulizer which I have at home now every 4 hours. But you did not take my word that I knew what I was talking about with regard to my own health. Not only did you not take my word then, but by the time I was given an ok to come in my peak flow had dropped to 270.  Per my pulmonologist I should go to the ER if it drops to 300. When I did come in you had already left, and the nurse practitioner did take me seriously and gave me a breathing treatment, put me on prednisone, vanceril, serevent, phenylphen.LA, and arranged to have a nebulizer delivered to my home that night, and I was told not to take part in any activitie s at all until I saw the pulmonologist on January 19. I am outraged that in your failure to take me seriously you might have put my life in jeopardy.  I am outraged when I remember how grueling that week was, because you failed to take me seriously. As a result of this experience, I will no longer be seeing anybody at I am unwilling to subject myself to such treatment again.  While I could see someone else  for appointments, there is no way to guarantee that you would not be on call after hours some day when I needed help. My health, my  life, and my dignity are far too precious to me to allow them to be disregarded in this manner again. Todoe      my T, (the name of her office)     — "May fortune favor the foolish."                                    Captain James T. Kirk        About to attempt time travel to retrieve      2 humpback whales from the past to save the world.              ( "Voyage Home"  Star Trek movie.)                       O.W.L. Productions — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Yah!!! What a wonderful, honest, detailed, letter of dignity and self respect. This doctor clearly needs some lessons in listening to hir patients and taking them seriously. I have given feedback to docs before who seemed totally *beyond* help, surgeons of the sort who were clearly mechanics with their perception of me as a mere machine. My complaints of this nature were taken seriously, and not only did *I* notice a difference, but other patients and *doctors* commented on their change as well. So congratulations.. with my heartfelt hope that thing well crafted letter will have a similarly successful effect! (me)

Got so tired of feeling angry at him, so I wrote and sent this letter today, with cc’s to the manager of the office where he works and my T.                                                     April 3, 1998 C Health Center I remain in a state of disbelief with regard to your treatment of me for my breathing difficulties. On January 12, 1998 you questioned me with regard to depression when I was there to see you about a breathing problem. I found that to be patronizing, discounting, and insulting to my intelligence.  In addition it was in direct conflict with my t’pist’s request.  In a telephone conversation she told you that both she and I would like you to not attempt to get involved with my emotional issues. That day you did not  sit down to talk to me, you did not listen to my breathing, you simply asked me about depression, gave me some Combivent which did nothing to help, and excused yourself. Having emotional problems does not mean that a person cannot also have physical problems.  Having emotional problems does not mean that a person is not intelligent. I am a CPA, I have a masters degree in Accounting, am presently working on a masters degree at U in Computer Science and Engineering.  I belong to Mensa – the high IQ club with an IQ  higher than what is necessary to be eligible for membership. The next day, January 13, I came in for a breathing treatment.  I had gotten an ok from the nurse I spoke with on the phone.  While I was waiting for the nurse to set up the nebulizer, you walked in and without a greeting listened to me breathe and told me "You’re not very bad," referring to my breathing. Well, as I told you then, every single time I had felt as I did that morning my breathing had done nothing but get worse and worse and worse.  I told you that I hated to wait until it got as bad as it had been the previous day when I was unable to even speak. You didn’t say much. The next day I called your office because I wanted another breathing treatment.  I told the nurse my peak flow was 400 and that every time I’d felt that badly my breathing got worse and worse. The message relayed from you by your nurse was that 400 is a fine peak flow. It might interest you to know that the pulmonologist I am seeing has given me instructions that should my peak flow drop to 400, I should start using the nebulizer which I have at home now every 4 hours. But you did not take my word that I knew what I was talking about with regard to my own health. Not only did you not take my word then, but by the time I was given an ok to come in my peak flow had dropped to 270.  Per my pulmonologist I should go to the ER if it drops to 300. When I did come in you had already left, and the nurse practitioner did take me seriously and gave me a breathing treatment, put me on prednisone, vanceril, serevent, phenylphen.LA, and arranged to have a nebulizer delivered to my home that night, and I was told not to take part in any activitie s at all until I saw the pulmonologist on January 19. I am outraged that in your failure to take me seriously you might have put my life in jeopardy.  I am outraged when I remember how grueling that week was, because you failed to take me seriously. As a result of this experience, I will no longer be seeing anybody at I am unwilling to subject myself to such treatment again.  While I could see someone else  for appointments, there is no way to guarantee that you would not be on call after hours some day when I needed help. My health, my  life, and my dignity are far too precious to me to allow them to be disregarded in this manner again. Todoe      my T, (the name of her office)     — Someonelse       " I am a poster girl with no poster    I am 32 flavors and then some…"                             Ani Difranco

Response:

good for you todoe! we sory they bein such asses to you,, and ya kno what, your letters getin me fired up to send one the insurance company ahtat is no longer gona cover my thpy visits, yeah its april 5th an my benefits are already exhausted anyways i hop things get better with the breathing problems an i be intersted to hear what if anything thy respond to that letter ok byby mary an inspace ppls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got so tired of feeling angry at him, so I wrote and sent this letter today, with cc’s to the manager of the office where he works and my T.                                                     April 3, 1998 C Health Center I remain in a state of disbelief with regard to your treatment of me for my breathing difficulties. Todoe      my T, (the name of her office) —

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