Question:

CASA do hold info on people with interest in the aircraft. You need to have documentation  to prove your share well and truly tied up. Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Aero Club of Southern Tasmania  www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                          www.prologic.com.au Out Mail has been checked by Norton Anti Virus but no absolute guarantee is made that mail or attachment(s) are virus free.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the achillies heel I have found is the registration holder. if one of the other owners goes stupid you can work around them but if the registration holder goes troppo then you are screwed since all ownership transactions require the signature of the registration holder. Surely you’d set up some sort of company, with everyone a director (who needs indians when you have plenty of chiefs huh!!!), and register the aircraft with the company as the owner. Obviously the register as available for public access from the web site isn’t the be-all-and-end-all on this subject, but from that view at least, there certainly seems to be hundreds of aircraft owned by corporates (as opposed to individuals) there. Thoughts? G a company costs about $1000 per year in maintaining the corporate paperwork and accounting requirements. an unnecessary cost imho. the cert of registration is still held by a person. comments unchanged on the difficulties of someone going troppo. it is a free world though. do yours as you please. btw the registrations register does not show details of owners other than the nominated cert of registration holder. Stealth Pilot …who once thought that only wealthy people ever owned two aircraft. good grief, how wrong I was.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the achillies heel I have found is the registration holder. if one of the other owners goes stupid you can work around them but if the registration holder goes troppo then you are screwed since all ownership transactions require the signature of the registration holder. Surely you’d set up some sort of company, with everyone a director (who needs indians when you have plenty of chiefs huh!!!), and register the aircraft with the company as the owner. Obviously the register as available for public access from the web site isn’t the be-all-and-end-all on this subject, but from that view at least, there certainly seems to be hundreds of aircraft owned by corporates (as opposed to individuals) there. Thoughts? G

a company costs about $1000 per year in maintaining the corporate paperwork and accounting requirements. an unnecessary cost imho. the cert of registration is still held by a person. comments unchanged on the difficulties of someone going troppo. it is a free world though. do yours as you please. btw the registrations register does not show details of owners other than the nominated cert of registration holder. Stealth Pilot …who once thought that only wealthy people ever owned two aircraft. good grief, how wrong I was.

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I think if your 20 in a share its almost an Aero Club level share. Thats a different kettle of fish. If you have regular pilots like myself and friend sharing then the plane is pretty busy especially on weekends and thats with only two sharing. It works for us pretty well and I would not own a plane by myself for the financial overheads. I suppose I could afford it but I have other things to do with my money rather than throw lots of $ notes into a big hole in the air. This way I just throw half as many and still cringe sometimes. — Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Aero Club of Southern Tasmania  www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                          www.prologic.com.au Out Mail has been checked by Norton Anti Virus but no absolute guarantee is made that mail or attachment(s) are virus free.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in a two person share arrangement that has worked well in the past. Recently, unscheduled costs have been BIG and as the partner with lower usage and a fixed share of these costs (and all other fixed costs) it is hurting. I think I will be arguing for a spread of all fixed costs based on usage of the aircraft. It is still a good way to own an otherwise unreachable asset as long as you have the right people and not too many. I think 3 max who know one another well is the way to go but others may have different experiences. — Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Aero Club of Southern Tasmania  www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                          www.prologic.com.au Out Mail has been checked by Norton Anti Virus but no absolute guarantee is made that mail or attachment(s) are virus free. Hi all – what do you think would be the viability of an aircraft share scheme for either a TBM700 or Pilatus PC12 in Australia? I would envisage that the aircraft would be out on charter to executive airline organisations mostly. On a related issue, what experiences (good and bad) has anyone had in aircraft sharing/fractional ownership situations? Thanks in advance…Pete I’ve been in three syndicates- one of two, one of ten, and one of twenty. Surprisingly, the one of 20 was the easiest to manage, and the aircraft was available most of the time that we needed it (people usually fly a lot less than they think they will). Certainly kept the costs down, and we were able to sail through a wing replacement (corrosion in mainspar) without too many hassles. Spreading the load really helps if you are on a limited budget. Coop

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Hi all – what do you think would be the viability of an aircraft share scheme for either a TBM700 or Pilatus PC12 in Australia? I would envisage that the aircraft would be out on charter to executive airline organisations mostly. On a related issue, what experiences (good and bad) has anyone had in aircraft sharing/fractional ownership situations? Thanks in advance…Pete

have just been involved in a share arrangement that went down the gurgler. when you enter into a partnership you really have to be in a situation to be able to write off totally the investment and walk away or buy out all the other partners if it goes to poo. the achillies heel I have found is the registration holder. if one of the other owners goes stupid you can work around them but if the registration holder goes troppo then you are screwed since all ownership transactions require the signature of the registration holder. replacement of paperwork withheld by one of the owners requires the C of R holder signature before it can be reissued. a buy out is expensive and is a phyrric victory of sorts but at least it sees you back flying. I’ve seen share arrangements that worked well. I’d only enter into arrangements with other pilots. non pilot enthusiasts can be idiots. Stealth Pilot

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I am in a two person share arrangement that has worked well in the past. Recently, unscheduled costs have been BIG and as the partner with lower usage and a fixed share of these costs (and all other fixed costs) it is hurting. I think I will be arguing for a spread of all fixed costs based on usage of the aircraft. It is still a good way to own an otherwise unreachable asset as long as you have the right people and not too many. I think 3 max who know one another well is the way to go but others may have different experiences. — Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Aero Club of Southern Tasmania  www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                          www.prologic.com.au Out Mail has been checked by Norton Anti Virus but no absolute guarantee is made that mail or attachment(s) are virus free.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all – what do you think would be the viability of an aircraft share scheme for either a TBM700 or Pilatus PC12 in Australia? I would envisage that the aircraft would be out on charter to executive airline organisations mostly. On a related issue, what experiences (good and bad) has anyone had in aircraft sharing/fractional ownership situations? Thanks in advance…Pete

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in a two person share arrangement that has worked well in the past. Recently, unscheduled costs have been BIG and as the partner with lower usage and a fixed share of these costs (and all other fixed costs) it is hurting. I think I will be arguing for a spread of all fixed costs based on usage of the aircraft. It is still a good way to own an otherwise unreachable asset as long as you have the right people and not too many. I think 3 max who know one another well is the way to go but others may have different experiences. — Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Aero Club of Southern Tasmania  www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                          www.prologic.com.au Out Mail has been checked by Norton Anti Virus but no absolute guarantee is made that mail or attachment(s) are virus free. Hi all – what do you think would be the viability of an aircraft share scheme for either a TBM700 or Pilatus PC12 in Australia? I would envisage that the aircraft would be out on charter to executive airline organisations mostly. On a related issue, what experiences (good and bad) has anyone had in aircraft sharing/fractional ownership situations? Thanks in advance…Pete

I’ve been in three syndicates- one of two, one of ten, and one of twenty. Surprisingly, the one of 20 was the easiest to manage, and the aircraft was available most of the time that we needed it (people usually fly a lot less than they think they will). Certainly kept the costs down, and we were able to sail through a wing replacement (corrosion in mainspar) without too many hassles. Spreading the load really helps if you are on a limited budget. Coop

Response:

Hi all – what do you think would be the viability of an aircraft share scheme for either a TBM700 or Pilatus PC12 in Australia? I would envisage that the aircraft would be out on charter to executive airline organisations mostly. On a related issue, what experiences (good and bad) has anyone had in aircraft sharing/fractional ownership situations? Thanks in advance…Pete

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On a related issue, what experiences (good and bad) has anyone had in aircraft sharing/fractional ownership situations?

Here at Flight Club we have two Grummans in fractional ownership but it’s not at the commercial level you aim for.  We have had a positive experience but our income rarely exceeds our bills!  The Brisbane Flying Group also operates three Grummans in a similar fashion. It certainly helps smooth out demand and fixed costs. Add a significant "unscheduled maintenance" factor to all of your budgets as you’ll definitely need it and the last thing you want is disappointed partners. – Best regards, Richard. Private Pilot, Perth Western Australia Grumman Tigers VH-IGI VH-IFL www.flightclub.com.au

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Hi all – what do you think would be the viability of an aircraft share scheme for either a TBM700 or Pilatus PC12 in Australia? I would envisage that the aircraft would be out on charter to executive airline organisations mostly. On a related issue, what experiences (good and bad) has anyone had in aircraft sharing/fractional ownership situations? Thanks in advance…Pete

Cindy suggest ask credit Departments of the likes of GE or Debis . Comes down to a proper viability analysis .+ appropriate credit and serviceability capacity of the members of your syndicate. Its all in doing the correct numbers and having adequate liquidity and accruals to handle any surprises be they not achieving expectations /projections and having appropriate buy back or bail out options.this often translates to equity within the asset and ability to shift it if so required. I have one client at the moment who is tearing out hair on matter of "loaner" engines  PT 6 dash 41’s I would talk to the Australian distributors of the types you mentioned. There may be a Credit squeeze heading our way soon so factor that in also. cheers – Hope this helps Phil

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Question:

This issue is strictly on a "case-by-case" basis. I have seen (and played on) many 70’s Gibsons that were to die for. I have had two Byrdlands, a 1976 box, and a 1993 box. The quality is about the same in each. The ‘76 has that smooth "aged" sound, lacking in the 1993 box (which I have since sold). Yes, there is "gold" to be found. -JAS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t know much about this, have just heard it mentionned a few times. Does it cover the entire 70’s period and all Gibson guitars?  Was it bad designs, marketing and production quality or just quality?  What was the cause of this? Thanks JML

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Yes , I remember the rusty Fords. So what caused the guitar industry to get back on it’s feet? New owners or new managers? Are we talking about all Gibson and Fender Guitars from 70-79 or was it just some years but the whole decade is tarnished by those few years? JML

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Yes , I remember the rusty Fords. So what caused the guitar industry to get back on it’s feet? New owners or new managers? Are we talking about all Gibson and Fender Guitars from 70-79 or was it just some years but the whole decade is tarnished by those few years? JML

I think it was the same sorts of things that caused other industries to wake up and stop producing crap: people caught on, not least the employees and customers, to the fact that better products were available elsewhere for less money.   Competition, in other words, raised the acceptable lower limit.     I think that this was the real lesson of the ‘lawsuit’ guitars: the Japanese could and did make an identical, but *better*, product, cheaper.    Names start to mean less if the quality isn’t there. I think that the corporations that had grown through mindless acquisition realized that they weren’t meeting their revenue projections (because of competition for quality), and had to resell these acquisitions to make their books and margins look better.   Their other choice was to actually significantly re-invest in quality, which is exactly what they didn’t want to do – that doesn’t show up as a good thing within one or two quarters, so the shareholders object.    Thus, it was both new (sometimes the old) owners, and new managers who had quality and customer needs as a priority (no kidding). CBS recruited management from Yamaha in 1981 to turn quality around at Fender, and sold it in 1984.   Gibson was bought from Norlin in 1986. (Norlin was formed in 1969 in a merger of Chicago Musical Instruments and an ECI, an Ecuadorian brewery). As to the time period:  you still have to look at each instrument, with the starting years being better (as older stock was used up and before things wore out) and getting progressively worse, until the bad stock and fixtures were used up or rejected under new management. That’s my view, anyway. Some of Bill Lawrence’s views are here: http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/BL_Gibsonarticle.htm -pk

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Don’t know much about this, have just heard it mentionned a few times.  Does it cover the entire 70’s period and all Gibson guitars?  Was it bad designs, marketing and production quality or just quality?  What was the cause of this? Thanks JML

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Don’t know much about this, have just heard it mentionned a few times. Does it cover the entire 70’s period and all Gibson guitars?  Was it bad designs, marketing and production quality or just quality?  What was the cause of this? Thanks JML

IIRC, other companies had the same sorts of problems in that era, Fender and Harley-Davidson being two other examples.   For Gibson, it was largely when owned by Norlin.   For Fender, by CBS, and H-D, by AMF.   This seems to me to have been the result of a corporate expansion trend in the US at the time – expansion for expansion’s sake,  without considering whether the acquisition target was part of the core business or even remotely related to it. It was partly a morale issue – ownership and management control by people who could just as well be making and selling shoes or toilet paper, for all they knew or cared about the product  - doesn’t really make for a highly quality-motivated workforce. It was partly a failure to re-invest in the company, which in Fender’s case you can see in the sloppiness of the neck-pocket routes – it looks like the jigs and fixtures had worn oversize and were just used anyway, milked for all they were worth. In other cases it was blatant effects at cost-cutting – you’ll see a series of Gibsons that show signs of having accountants on the design and production teams.   Hey, it’s cheaper to route a hole in the top and mount the controls on a plastic plate, than route through the back. So I’ll have to say it was mostly a decline in design quality, decline in production and workforce quality.   But again, I think it was part of a general business trend at that time.   Come to think of it, wasn’t that also the "another rusty Ford" era? -pk

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Question:

If company A leases one machinery to company B for $100 payable in 5 years, then in Profit & loss statement of company A (the lessor), should the $100 be recognised in sales revenue? thanks a lot!!!

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If company A leases one machinery to company B for $100 payable in 5 years, then in Profit & loss statement of company A (the lessor), should the $100 be recognised in sales revenue? thanks a lot!!!

Nope, only 1/5 (20%) is earned the first year, though recording the full 100.00 as A/R in Y1 depends on contract terms.   And nope, it isn’t sales revenue.  It is lease revenue. If contract is cancelable, then – Y1 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue (okay, it ought to be 1.66666666666666666666666666666667 a month, but for simplicity, lets just post this on an annual basis) Y2 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue Y3 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue Y4 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue Y5 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue And when actually paid in Y5 db 100.00 cash cr 100.00 ar BTW – Company B made a sweet deal, not having to pay anything until the end of 5 years.  But don’t bet on something like this in real life. —      **  Working to make "taxes less taxing"  ** Ohio Tax Man – Robert Thompson Westerville (Columbus) Ohio The real beauty of a computerized system is that you can generate thousands of errors in a split second.

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I forwarded this to our lease accounting guy and at the bottom is his response. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shouldn’t it be titled "accrued fee earned" because the amount can be withdrawn later? I’d say you should credit "accrued fee earned" and debit "cash". -Nix PS: I’m an I.T. major and have nothing to do with business; I just picked that up from my dad while he was working as an accountant. If company A leases one machinery to company B for $100 payable in 5 years, then in Profit & loss statement of company A (the lessor), should the $100 be recognised in sales revenue? thanks a lot!!! Nope, only 1/5 (20%) is earned the first year, though recording the full 100.00 as A/R in Y1 depends on contract terms. And nope, it isn’t sales revenue.  It is lease revenue. If contract is cancelable, then – Y1 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue (okay, it ought to be 1.66666666666666666666666666666667 a month, but for simplicity, lets just post this on an annual basis) Y2 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue Y3 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue Y4 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue Y5 db 020.00 a/r cr 020.00 lease revenue And when actually paid in Y5 db 100.00 cash cr 100.00 ar BTW – Company B made a sweet deal, not having to pay anything until the end of 5 years.  But don’t bet on something like this in real life. —      **  Working to make "taxes less taxing"  ** Ohio Tax Man – Robert Thompson Westerville (Columbus) Ohio The real beauty of a computerized system is that you can generate thousands of errors in a split second. Any hypothetical example will depend on whether the transaction is being posted using cash basis accounting or accrual, whether the entity is subject to GAAP or not (or if not, chooses to strictly follow GAAP or not), whether in USA or not, and actual contract terms.  YMMV.  There are many specifics needed that were not provided by the OP.  There may be a need to identify the revenue more clearly, but it is revenue earned upon the expiration of the interim period of the lease, that is, record the 20.00 each year, at the end of the year (or 1.66666666666666666666666666666667 each month, at the end of the month) as revenue.  And, no, it is not fee revenue, it is lease revenue. This assumes a contract signing of January 1, which may not have matched the situation contemplated by the OP.  

The discussion above has left out a few terms that would be needed to truly define the accounting. The first is the book vs. tax issue.  The second is cash vs. accrual. The third would be the elements needed for the FASB tests. In General though, Presuming book and accrual:         If this was defined as an operating lease to the Lessor, AR would not be debited until year 5. AR is typically considered short term or Current assets. Any money to be received five years from now would not be short term. OL = Operating Lease Year 1                                                                 D C                 OL Deferred (Balance Sheet)             20                 OL Income   (Income Statement)          20 Year 2                                                                 D C                 OL Deferred (Balance Sheet)             20                 OL Income   (Income Statement)          20 Year 3                                                                 D C                 OL Deferred (Balance Sheet)             20                 OL Income   (Income Statement)          20 Year 4                                                                 D C                 OL Deferred (Balance Sheet)             20                 OL Income   (Income Statement)          20 Year 5                                                                 D C                 OL Deferred (Balance Sheet)             20                 OL Income   (Income Statement)          20                 A/R                                             100                 OL Deferred 100                 Cash                                            100                 A/R 100         This method allows you to take income each year and keep track of the total taken without putting it in AR. By year 5,      it washes. For an operating lease, depreciation would have also been posted on the asset being leased. If the Lessee   wanted to payoff early, this account would show the amount accrued for a partial buyout. Not that AR couldn’t do that      but AR usually contains more stuff (taxes, other charges, etc)         If this lease was a Direct Finance Lease, the Implicit rate would be determined using the economics of the Lease.(COST, RESIDUAL, TERM, PMT, Frequency). Then the entries would be based around interest income and not rental income,  amortizing the PV’s to the Residual. Hope this helps. Remove NOSPAM for replies Cornerstone Software, Inc./ EaglePro Lease Accounting Software WWW: http://www.cornerstonesoftware.com/

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thing is, he hasn’t denied my suggestion (and it was originally a question) that most FF points are awarded to business flyers which are paid for by their employers. Thats unlikely, many got them by making purchases with credit cards etc. And many of those credit card (or charge card in the case of Diners Club) purchases may have been paid by an empoloyer. Bet that was bugger all of the points got with cards for purchases. I picked up over 100,000 QF points from Amex, and the only money I personally forked out to Amex was the annual Membership Rewards fee. Thanks boss … So I would expect there a plenty of Ansett FF’s who picked up a swag of their points from employer paid Diners CLub accounts.  Our company recently changed from Amex to Diners corp cards.  The only Ansett points I lost were those gained in a few months use of a corp Diners card.  No great loss and didn’t cost me personally, so I don’t miss them. Now my business expenses paid on Diners (by my employer) will earn me QF points to add to those I got from Amex. Out of all the points I have "earned" from credit/chrage card purchases, more than 3/4 have been from employer-paid expenses.

All completely and utterly irrelevant to how the bulk of the Ansett points were obtained. Bet the bulk of them came from purchases on cards by the individual who made the purchase.

Response:

Thanks Trevor for editing out and ever so neatly proving my point about obstructionism in this matter. Thanks Trevor for helping to ensure the AN pilots get just as comprehensively fucked over in 2002 as they did in 1989 – and by some of the same folks as well.. Some knob of festering green snot calling itself Fenn by name and If it’s none of our business take it out of this public forum. ASSHOLE!!

Well you’d know all about arseholes  Trevvy pond slime (if only you knew how spell it) in your anxiety to take it up the arse from some of the same folks who comprehensively screwed you over last time. Sounds like you must really enjoy it that way, asking for a repeat performance. Here – this is what the LA Times had to say this week about the beloved shiny arsed lawyers and accountants you are so bloody intent on protecting from public scrutiny and discussion- "This rotten barrel of apples is all encompassing. Down at the bottom, in the really contaminated slime, Enron/Andersen/et al. is about what we have allowed our nation to become." Yeah – well say it all doesn’t it – slime bag fen dwellers all wallowing around in it together.

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And another one in the kill file! Bye Dave, you have nothing to say that I want to hear on this ng John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Trevor for editing out and ever so neatly proving my point about obstructionism in this matter. Thanks Trevor for helping to ensure the AN pilots get just as comprehensively fucked over in 2002 as they did in 1989 – and by some of the same folks as well.. Some knob of festering green snot calling itself Fenn by name and If it’s none of our business take it out of this public forum. ASSHOLE!! Well you’d know all about arseholes  Trevvy pond slime (if only you knew how spell it) in your anxiety to take it up the arse from some of the same folks who comprehensively screwed you over last time. Sounds like you must really enjoy it that way, asking for a repeat performance. Here – this is what the LA Times had to say this week about the beloved shiny arsed lawyers and accountants you are so bloody intent on protecting from public scrutiny and discussion- "This rotten barrel of apples is all encompassing. Down at the bottom, in the really contaminated slime, Enron/Andersen/et al. is about what we have allowed our nation to become." Yeah – well say it all doesn’t it – slime bag fen dwellers all wallowing around in it together.

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And another one in the kill file!

Cheers – and don’t forget to include the author of my warm welcome to your group.

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Oh dear, poor baby has lost his widdle frequent flyer miles and I’ve touched a nerve! I’d best watch out for flying dummies.(pacifiers) Thanks Trevor for editing out and ever so neatly proving my point about obstructionism in this matter.

Hey dipshit, this is a public forum. If you post a message here, expect to get other people expressing their opinions. If you’re an Ansett creditor and you’re mad about it, so what. You won’t get much sympathy in this newsgroup if you come in here talking about litigation. Talk to New Zealand. Thanks Trevor for helping to ensure the AN pilots get just as comprehensively fucked over in 2002 as they did in 1989 – and by some of the same folks as well.. Some knob of festering green snot calling itself Fenn by name and

Oh how clever, you’ve picked up a dictionary and found that a fen is a marsh or a bog, well I’m used to that. They didn’t call me swampy at school for nothing. Cohen, hmmm Thesaurus says "bird", obviously a turkey would be appropriate to you. If it’s none of our business take it out of this public forum. ASSHOLE!! Well you’d know all about arseholes  Trevvy pond slime (if only you knew how spell it) in your anxiety to take it up the arse from some of the same folks who comprehensively screwed you over last time. Sounds like you must really enjoy it that way, asking for a repeat performance.

I don’t know where your little turkey brain got that from, I have never worked for Ansett or Compass or Australian Airlines or TAA or Qantas so I don’t see how you could dream that I was screwed over during the pilots dispute, I in fact was one of the many GA pilots who refrained from being a scab at that time. When I left Australia I left a chief pilot position so I’m not bitter about where my career has taken me. As for the spelling of your nickname well I’ve had to make certain changes to vocabulary in order to better succeed in my present location. Here – this is what the LA Times had to say this week about the beloved shiny arsed lawyers and accountants you are so bloody intent on protecting from public scrutiny and discussion- "This rotten barrel of apples is all encompassing. Down at the bottom, in the really contaminated slime, Enron/Andersen/et al. is about what we have allowed our nation to become."

I don’t want to protect anyone, if you can go after the New Zealand management go for it. Yeah – well say it all doesn’t it – slime bag fen dwellers all wallowing around in it together.

You’re going to have to explain your closing statement to me, it doesn’t make much sense, and would you please spell my name correctly. It has two n’s unlike the word describing a swamp. That’s quite a different word. I’m sorry, maybe you are a little challenged in the spelling department and I shouldn’t pick on you. I apologize. — Trevor Fenn To Email me add an extra green to the address above. "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just"                           The Star Spangled Banner                             Francis Scott Key                    

Response:

Thing is, he hasn’t denied my suggestion (and it was originally a question) that most FF points are awarded to business flyers which are paid for by their employers. Thats unlikely, many got them by making purchases with credit cards etc.

And many of those credit card (or charge card in the case of Diners Club) purchases may have been paid by an empoloyer.

Response:

Thing is, he hasn’t denied my suggestion (and it was originally a question) that most FF points are awarded to business flyers which are paid for by their employers. Thats unlikely, many got them by making purchases with credit cards etc. And many of those credit card (or charge card in the case of Diners Club) purchases may have been paid by an empoloyer. Bet that was bugger all of the points got with cards for purchases.

I picked up over 100,000 QF points from Amex, and the only money I personally forked out to Amex was the annual Membership Rewards fee. Thanks boss … So I would expect there a plenty of Ansett FF’s who picked up a swag of their points from employer paid Diners CLub accounts.  Our company recently changed from Amex to Diners corp cards.  The only Ansett points I lost were those gained in a few months use of a corp Diners card.  No great loss and didn’t cost me personally, so I don’t miss them. Now my business expenses paid on Diners (by my employer) will earn me QF points to add to those I got from Amex. Out of all the points I have "earned" from credit/chrage card purchases, more than 3/4 have been from employer-paid expenses.

Response:

Trevor Fenn said..  TF You’re going to have to explain your closing statement to me, it  TF doesn’t  make much sense, and would you please spell my name correctly.  TF It has two  n’s unlike the word describing a swamp. That’s quite a  TF different word. I’m  sorry, maybe you are a little challenged in the  TF spelling department and I  shouldn’t pick on you. I apologize. Hey Trev. Don’t worry about him. He has waded in mouth (or fingers) flapping against anyone who opposes a class action to recover lost FF points. He’s pretty well at his wits’ end given the personal abuse that he’s flinging everywhere. Thing is, he hasn’t denied my suggestion (and it was originally a question) that most FF points are awarded to business flyers which are paid for by their employers. And if he’s one of those it’s understandable why he’s so indignant when we question his "right" to them. After all, he has no problems whatsoever in shit canning lowlife union bludgers like myself who don’t deserve (and who don’t get) perks like his own (presumably, of course, that he does get such perks). Take out an "l" for email reply

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Thing is, he hasn’t denied my suggestion (and it was originally a question) that most FF points are awarded to business flyers which are paid for by their employers.

Thats unlikely, many got them by making purchases with credit cards etc.

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Question:

hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with these ratios. I am new to accounting and anyones help would be great thankyou

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Umm…. What ratios? — Ken Russell Sydney

hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with these ratios. I am new to accounting and anyones help would be great thankyou

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Question:

People are fedup with entering passwords, I know I am. They aren’t even secure.  They are a joke.  A placebo. You will *never* be able to conduct business over the internet with just a password—unless you want to pay high insurance premiums to pay for all the fraud and repudiation, included in the 5% fees paid by merchants to the credit card companies. It is important for the planet that small businesses somehow get a single-sign-on solution that enables them to securely use more than one business service (selling, purchasing, payroll, collaboration, payments, etc.)   The only logical alternative to the internet commons I just described, is a concentration into a small number of giant integrated providers (AOL, MS, Intuit, etc.)  This is the monolithic model of internet, versus the component-model. Is the internet the operating system? or a top-down broadcast model to sell us junk, and collect rents?  Wake up PEOPLE! Yodlee.com has been doing single-signon at least a year. ebalance.com is better. It provides almost an integrated webledger service, with single sign-on to multiple bank backends http://www.ebalance.com/  and actually parses the account information into category reports like Quicken.  It is basically a p&l statement on your bank income and expenses. Awesome. Here’s more reading. http://www.yodlee.com/ http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/ob/20000502.asp http://news.cnet.com/news//0-1005-200-1536382.html http://aolpf.marketwatch.com/source/blq/aolpf/archive/20000614/news/c… As you know Pro2Net is now, also, an aggregator: http://accounting.pro2net.com/x17334.xml    A SIMPLE, SAFE WAY TO TRACK YOUR ONLINE ACCOUNTS    Pro2Net and VerticalOne have teamed up to offer    AccountMinder — the simple, secure way to stay on top of    everything you do online. AccountMinder enables you to    consolidate all your accounts in one place. Access all your    online accounts — email, banking, investments, credit    cards,  frequent flier miles, and more — with one password! Hummpph.  "Consolidate" is misleading.  This is a portal page, where you can give all your passwords to VerticalOne, to *access* all of your accounts.  (VerticalOne provides the back end, to provide single-sign-on capability to a bunch of other communities too) I hate all this JUNK, and reject it until these login aggregators VerticalOne, Yodlee and eBalance get off their duffs, and start adding value by providing real authentication so that ordinary people can conduct business with each other.   To get your "Yodlee Gold" account, you must come to a Yodlee franchise location, with ID and credit references and if you are accepted, you receive a photo ID /smart card and a PCI NIC or USB device or a wireless Palm, that has a triple-DES and Biometrics, and fifty witches’ hexes built in to tunnel to Yodlee Gold servers. THen, Yodlee Gold servers provide a military grade onwards authentication to participating ASPs, BSPs, DotComs or whatever you want to call them, so that these agents and proxies can intermediate all the various business between parties on a totally nonrepudiable basis. That’s all it is.  An authentication service, and some member directory with a query interface. We need nonrepudiation really bad.  Internet business needs settlement much cheaper than the 5% fees of credit cards. Internet is headed towards monopoly by monolithic providers. Banks, telcos, and software companies. Todd * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/STR.htm * XML accounting, web ledgers, BSPs, ASPs, whatever it takes * Triple-entry accounting rocks.  Get into it!

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Here read this http://news.excite.com/news/zd/000830/17/banks-believe-in "Leading institutions drop their lawsuits against online aggregators and sign on to one-stop banking. Wells Fargo’s the latest. "Just a few months ago, financial institutions were filing lawsuits against companies selling one-stop online banking products. Now they’re dropping the lawsuits and rushing to buy their services. "On Wednesday, VerticalOne announced that San Francisco-based Wells Fargo Bank will offer its customers the hottest new tool in banking: account aggregation" etc etc.

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Question:

Try Navision Financials at: www.navision-us.com Ron Litt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

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Consider calling SBT’s PreSales line at 800.944.1000 (when the thing starts talking, press 0 and ask the operator for PreSales) You might be surprised with what’s available now… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try Navision Financials at: www.navision-us.com Ron Litt I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

check this out – http://www.cfonet.com/html/98MAcfo.html  it compares SBT with other mid-range packages

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I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

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Question:

I am using Dac Easy Accounting Version 8.  I have been on Dac Easy for over 11 years and have a big customer list (2000+), as well as histories. I last year opened a second location and have to enter all data seperately for each location. I would like to be able to consolidate my entries because same customers and vendors at both locations.  If could consoldate would be able to send one statement to customers, and one check to vendors. I would like to do this while keeping expenses etc seperate bookwise. Is this possible, if not is their another system that can read the Dac Easy info that I can convert to? Thanks

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John: Consider modifying your chart of accounts, to keep track of sales, costs and expenses by location.  In this manner you can have consolidated customer, vendor and item files. Paulette — SBS Associates, Inc. specializing in accounting and information systems www.sbsassociates.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am using Dac Easy Accounting Version 8.  I have been on Dac Easy for over 11 years and have a big customer list (2000+), as well as histories. I last year opened a second location and have to enter all data seperately for each location. I would like to be able to consolidate my entries because same customers and vendors at both locations.  If could consoldate would be able to send one statement to customers, and one check to vendors. I would like to do this while keeping expenses etc seperate bookwise. Is this possible, if not is their another system that can read the Dac Easy info that I can convert to? Thanks

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Question:

I am interested in a simple drink made with store bought apple, orange or grape juice and I want to do it as simple as possible.  I have a few 2litre bottles lying around.  I would like to know: What kind of yeast to buy? purpose of a airlock? amount of sugar to add? the time it will be drinkable? any info would be appraciated!!

try another hobby — The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"   The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"   The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"   The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"

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Don’t!  Buy a bottle of vodka or rum to go with that fruit juice and enjoy! Of course there is always ripple. You’re going through an awfull lot of work just to get some cheap hooch. It probably works, but I prefer to watch some poor suck like on the movie Great Escape drink it.

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If you want some sweetness don’t use champagne or wine yeast they’ll ferment too many of the sugars and you’ll get a very dry drink.  If you use ale yeast it will not ferment out all the sugars and you’ll have some of the natural sweetness of the juice left. I agree that no boiling is necessary if the juice is commercially produced. Make sure it’s corn sugar, not cane sugar.

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I am interested in a simple drink made with store bought apple, orange or grape juice and I want to do it as simple as possible.  I have a few 2litre bottles lying around.  I would like to know: What kind of yeast to buy? purpose of a airlock? amount of sugar to add? the time it will be drinkable? any info would be appraciated!!

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I am interested in a simple drink made with store bought apple, orange or grape juice and I want to do it as simple as possible.  I have a few 2litre bottles lying around.  I would like to know: What kind of yeast to buy? purpose of a airlock? amount of sugar to add? the time it will be drinkable? any info would be appraciated!!

Well Dave, It seems that you can use store-bought juices (orange juice…?), but make sure they have no preservatives in them.  Also, do not boil, they should be pure enough already.  You will have to add some yeast nutrients (available from brew supply shops) or yeast extract, as well as some extra sugar (preferably corn sugar), probably a pound per gallon.  Ale yeast should work, but you can also use champagne yeast. Let it ferment until all signs of activity (bubbling) are gone, and the drink starts to clear, this may take several weeks at room temperature. The air-lock only costs about a buck and is used to release CO2 from the bottle as it ferments, and to keep contaminating air out of the bottle. Once done, transfer the liquid off and drink.  You can bottle the stuff, and even carbonate it in the bottles if you add some sugar before bottling (3/4 cup per 5 gallons is used for beer).  It should be carbonated within a week or two. Good Luck!   — http://members.tripod.com/~scottshome/index.html

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Question:

We are relatively new users of Applied. Had previously been on an AMS system. As you we have six users, pentium file server, fax from each work station, and download from our companies.  Applied 5.0C has some bugs, but the update which is due soon(we’ve been hearing that for some time) is due out soon.  Bugs include: inability to do a BOP app. under prospects, lack of some ACORD forms, errors in some applications. However the faxing from each terminal is great and it does have accounting, billing, all policy detail, marketing and a lot of reports. No payroll program however, even though they tell you they do.  Watch the Applied hardware. After purchasing some of it and using some of our own previously purchased I’m convinced theirs is all reconditioned and we’ve had a lot of problems with it.  Overall for the money, Applied is great when everything is working right.

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You said: I am new to this newsgroup, and I am in the process of selecting an Agency Management system.  I have narrowed my selection down to Agena for Windows, AMS PathFinder, And Applied System’s TAM (their Windows product). I would appreciate any insights on these systems from current/past users. Rick DiGiacomo What do you want it to do?  Define that first and then it is easy to measure what is on the market to what you need. Frank E. Novak

As a frustrated AMS Pathfinder plus user,  and a non impressed Agena for Windows user,  all I can say is GOOD LUCK!  Dont let AMS feed you the 15 months till our full blown windows wysiwyg mamma jamma bannanna version will be released.  We’ve been hearing that bandini for 4 years! Steve

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I am new to this newsgroup, and I am in the process of selecting an Agency Management system.  I have narrowed my selection down to Agena for Windows, AMS PathFinder, And Applied System’s TAM (their Windows product).  I would appreciate any insights on these systems from current/past users. Rick DiGiacomo

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I just started an agency…presently it is me and me alone–hiring 2-3 producers in coming months…looking into a bottom end system…we are an Allstate independent so we put most of our personal lines through their computers, but commercial is another deal completely…so any info would be of help… william I have been evaluating a variety of agency management systems over the past couple of months.  I found what appeared to be a fuctional low-end system in Agency1.  Its by AMS, its DOS Based, and I’m pretty sure it can handle commercial lines.  They will send you a Test Drive Diskette if you ask for it, you get to test drive the system in your office for 30 days. They will require that you let them do a 1 hour tlelphone walk through. The price of the system runs abut $125/month.  Call them at 208-772-8900. If you are in the New England area, your rep will be Tim Davis.  I suggest asking for him anyway, he was very knowledgeable and helpful. We are looking for a top end Windows based product, but for the money, Agency1 looked like the best of the low end systems. Best of luck. Rick DiGiacomo

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I just started an agency…presently it is me and me alone–hiring 2-3 producers in coming months…looking into a bottom end system…we are an Allstate independent so we put most of our personal lines through their computers, but commercial is another deal completely…so any info would be of help… william love is a dog from hell….WOOF ! william redfern or possibly michail ruane

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You said: What do you want it to do?  Define that first and then it is easy to measure what is on the market to what you need. Frank E. Novak Thank you for your response. We are looking for a comprehensive, Windows based agency management system which will work on a 6 workstation network.  The system will be used to manage a customer database including policy information, inquiries, customer history, Acord forms, integrated rating as well as general ledger functions (billing, management reporting ect.).  The system will need to be compatible i.e. be able to import/export information into software packages such as MicroSoft Office 4.3 and have desktop fax capabilities. We will be using Pentium workstations and a Pentium server.  In addition, we plan to download and upload information to our insurance companies.  A plus would be integrated marketing capabilities. Rick DiGiacomo My original message: I am new to this newsgroup, and I am in the process of selecting an Agency Management system.  I have narrowed my selection down to Agena for Windows, AMS PathFinder, And Applied System’s TAM (their Windows product).  I would appreciate any insights on these systems from current/past users. Rick DiGiacomo

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