Question:
Hi jt, You were robbed. Whatever you decide to do I know you are up to the task. And we are all behind you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. i was robbed. he should pay. jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. i was robbed. he should pay. jt
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing.
there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed.
yes, you were robbed. he should pay.
how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
Domino you have opened a door and the is good. Consider the amount of energy and money that is needed to see your law suit through to the end? It will probably result in a small out of court settlement with a non-disclosure clause. Now think about using that energy to go to SUNY and follow your dream. Whatever you decide we will support you morally; but if you build something we will be cheering. Goblin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
2? Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt
Response:
<snip it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing.
but you don’t know that you would have. none of us knows what might have been had… sh*t…we might have been h*t by a bus and not been here to talk about might-have-beens. i was robbed. he should pay.
yeah. there’s that perspective. we personally believe that that is about revenge and doesn’t really even begin to touch justice. we’re not sure if there even exists justice for our perps. unless it’s seeing survivors climb out of the holes they’re in and live exciting and jubilant lives. and besides, our guess is that it’s not gonna do a damn thing for your anger (and all the other stuff that goes with it). maybe it would be more proactive to bring it back to the center and decide which of your coping skills is best suited to deal with it. just some thoughts. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
Response:
Well, as the daughter of an atty, though, my main question would be – how on earth would there be any way of establishing the act of which he would be accused? I think it’s right, what Domino says, about there still being that powerful element of control – which you already know, right? I recognize it for different reasons (which you know about, too). Just a couple of cheap thoughts. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
Actually, diane, come to think of it – and trust me, I have my own reasons to think of similar things, as you know – the result is almost assured to be a further and more intense, minute, frustrating, triggering focus on the anger and pain. Question: not exactly rhetorical: is that what you want? (You know you’ll always get it straight from me, jt – I’ll give you that much.) Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. but you don’t know that you would have. none of us knows what might have been had… sh*t…we might have been h*t by a bus and not been here to talk about might-have-beens. i was robbed. he should pay. yeah. there’s that perspective. we personally believe that that is about revenge and doesn’t really even begin to touch justice. we’re not sure if there even exists justice for our perps. unless it’s seeing survivors climb out of the holes they’re in and live exciting and jubilant lives. and besides, our guess is that it’s not gonna do a damn thing for your anger (and all the other stuff that goes with it). maybe it would be more proactive to bring it back to the center and decide which of your coping skills is best suited to deal with it. just some thoughts. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
Response:
i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society". she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. 
it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs* and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice. but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped? i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;) and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society? why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think. jt (socrates)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
interesting perspective. there is no justice, however. i continue to ponder… socrates, for jt
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Domino you have opened a door and the is good. Consider the amount of energy and money that is needed to see your law suit through to the end? It will probably result in a small out of court settlement with a non-disclosure clause. Now think about using that energy to go to SUNY and follow your dream. Whatever you decide we will support you morally; but if you build something we will be cheering. Goblin man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l message
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
how many family members would need to testify, telling their own tales, before it becomes reasonably clear that we can’t *ALL* be lying? again, no heat in my inquery. i’m purely in contemplation-mode at this time. jt
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, as the daughter of an atty, though, my main question would be – how on earth would there be any way of establishing the act of which he would be accused? I think it’s right, what Domino says, about there still being that powerful element of control – which you already know, right? I recognize it for different reasons (which you know about, too). Just a couple of cheap thoughts. Beauty. man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
again, an interesting perspective. i hear what you are saying.
<snip it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. but you don’t know that you would have. none of us knows
what might have been had…
i’m aware of this. however, i’ve tended to take the opposite perspective to the extreme: i minimize, rationalize, intellectualize, temporize, and lots of other words ending in -ize to the extent that i end up never being able to blame anyone for anything. but i don’t think that perspective is correct, either. there *is* a point at which an individual must make their own choices in life, and then stick by those choices. if i choose to let bygones be bygones, i am perpetrating a cycle of silence. i am tacitly stating that people *can* get away with absing children. [ed. note: rlgs reference below. also references to sxl abses, splatted. ] a a a a a a a a if my hand offends me, i should c*t it off, right? my uncle offended me. i should do nothing? i spent many many years laughing it off if i fell and scraped my knee, or did something foolish. i’m well-versed in the "it didn’t hurt!" behaviors. i’m very familiar with the idea that "the best revenge is living well", and the one about "shake it off", and "own your own life", etc, etc… but what about the one where a crime has been committed, and the perpetrator is never called to account because the crime is never reported? if i were r*ped tomorrow, i would call the police, report it, subject myself to physical exams, etc, and do everything required to "see justice done". i don’t think anyone would counsel me against that, am I right? why is this different? is it because it happened so long ago? Ask Sunshine how long ago it was. Or Gloriana. But don’t ask Suzie-queue. She doesn’t know about it yet. why isn’t it important that he be called to accounts? is it based on cynical reasoning that i am cautioned against it? do i seem manic right now? i may well be. telling myself it’s more important that i lead a healthy, productive life, and devoting my energies to that is a wonderful way for me to heal from the crime that was committed. but my healing from the crime in no way changes the fact that it *was* committed, and that the criminal suffers no consequences for his actions. if i wrong my friend, and my friend does not tell me i have wronged her…who is at fault if i wrong my friend the same way a second time? have i been given a chance to know that i have done wrong, and been caused to make restitution? my uncle has wronged a great many people. he *has* been told. he *knows* that he has done wrong. yet he has continued to abse young children in his family. this is an outrage. he has suffered no consequences for his actions. this is wrong. socrates, for jt ps: diane, and ravensong in general – i know that there have been several times when the "tone" of my posts has come across to you as otherwise than how I wrote it. knowing that, i’d like to reiterate that i’m feeling quite calm and contemplative as i write this. this is more theoretical rhetoric right now than impassioned declarations, or bitter anger, etc. i apologize if aught that i’ve said offended you. my response wasn’t specifically intended for *you*, but rather more to the overall tenor of the responses i’ve gotten to my original query. thank you for taking the time to consider my thoughts, and for responding as seems appropriate. you have much insight. sh*t…we might have been h*t by a bus and not been here to talk about might-have-beens. i was robbed. he should pay. yeah. there’s that perspective. we personally believe that that is about revenge and doesn’t really even begin to touch justice. we’re not sure if there even exists justice for our perps. unless it’s
seeing survivors climb out of the holes they’re in and live exciting and jubilant
lives. and besides, our guess is that it’s not gonna do a damn thing for your anger (and all the other stuff that goes with it). maybe it would be more
proactive to bring it – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – back to the center and decide which of your coping skills is best suited to deal with it. just some thoughts. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
Response:
Dunno answers. Don’t know how such things work. Also no heat in response. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – how many family members would need to testify, telling their own tales, before it becomes reasonably clear that we can’t *ALL* be lying? again, no heat in my inquery. i’m purely in contemplation-mode at this time. jt Well, as the daughter of an atty, though, my main question would be – how on earth would there be any way of establishing the act of which he would be accused? I think it’s right, what Domino says, about there still being that powerful element of control – which you already know, right? I recognize it for different reasons (which you know about, too). Just a couple of cheap thoughts. Beauty. man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
Moo, too. I have a song that I like to sing when passing by a field of beautiful moo-moos. The title is "Beautiful Moo-Moos" and is sung to the tune of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." The lyrics are approximately: Beautiful beautiful moo-moos Beautiful beautiful moooooo-mooooooos Beautiful beautiful moo-moos mmmumbmbmle mmemmbell mumbmles The mumbles are because nothing about beautiful moo-moos in and of themselves fits into the scansion of the final line of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." To tell the truth – I must have *something* that I sing at those moments – but on second thought, it could well be that my howling is squelched by fellow travelers before I get to the final and vastly problematic line. "I’ll never love anything but beautiful moo-moos ever again" doesn’t quite make it, and ruins the minimalism of the first three lines anyway, but on the other hand, maybe if you think of it as a blues tune, that’s okay . . . but it *isn’t* a blues tune (if anything it is a kind of dance hall tune, or something, I think), nor even a blue-grass tune, it having been spontaneously composed in the foothills of the Catskills, where grass does not even pretend to be blue . . . Blue moo. Any suggestions for a last line will be entertained, but probably not adopted, because – well – the moo-moos and I have become so used to my just kind of trailing off into murmurous adoration . . . Beauty(ful) moo-moo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society". oh boy. i hope you don’t think i was implying that you aren’t a productive member of society. she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways. i don’t get it. what’s your point? none of the above attributes make or break a productive member of society. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse. what made the difference? my guess is that you and your sister have different lessons to learn in this go-round on earth. yes, you are who you are. fwiw, i think you are one of the most beautiful people i have had the pleasure of knowing. you are kind, thoughtful, gentle, thought-provoking, funny as h*ll, and talented beyond belief. i see no ‘worse’ in any of that. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs* okay. i understand that. thpy is certainly expensive. and worthwhile for many people. personally, i don’t think i would be comfortable with my p*rps paying for me to be healthy emotionally. to me it would be like they had control over my healing. does he have money? if you won a lawsuit that forced him to pay for your thpy, could he in actuality do that? for you and any of the others who might join you? again, personally speaking, i’d just rather see him in jail. child m*lesters are despised in jail. and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice. i’m glad that you feel this way. 
but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped? sounds like there are lots of unanswered questions about who would or wouldn’t join you. i guess that is where you need to begin. i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it. too bad you didn’t have a tape recorder on you at the time….. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way. i understand that. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;) farm? you have a farm? moo of course it was a crime. and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society? if you feel you are up to trying, then by all means, go for it. in some ways i envy you because you know who your p*rp was. for me there were several strangers so i have no clue. his is accountable. always. sometimes the accounting doesn’t take place during this lifetime. but it does take place. always. why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well. it seems to me that if you pursue this, (okay if ~i~ were to pursue this) that so much energy and emotions would be bouncing around that it would at least feel like he still had power over me. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think. i’m glad you can think about it and that your thinking has calmed over the course of your journey. only you know what is right for you. you have support from me no matter what. domino jt (socrates) man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which
… read more »
Response:
Ain’t even going there. Too weary. But not offended. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – raunchy humor alert… a a a a a a a a a a a a 2? (would that be a bi-action suit?) *fond smiles* jt Beauty. a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt
Response:
Hey jt….. I’ve been reading your thoughts regarding suing. I wanted to tell you how, when reading, I was able to completely empathize with your feelings. BTDT……big time!! However, I do agree with domino. It was eloquently written. Funny (not ha-ha) that I understand both positions. I feel myself saying, "Yeah, Uh huh" with everything everyone is posting about this topic. I’m glad that you brought it up. Thanks… Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society". she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs* and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice. but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped? i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;) and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society? why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think. jt (socrates) man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
Response:
I’ll always love moo-moos the most! How’s that? It scans okay. Depends on your sentiment, I suppose. I have moocow accessories in my car. ONly a visor and a waste baggie thingy. Not overboard. But I do love moos too. jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Moo, too. I have a song that I like to sing when passing by a field of beautiful moo-moos. The title is "Beautiful Moo-Moos" and is sung to the tune of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." The lyrics are approximately: Beautiful beautiful moo-moos Beautiful beautiful moooooo-mooooooos Beautiful beautiful moo-moos mmmumbmbmle mmemmbell mumbmles The mumbles are because nothing about beautiful moo-moos in and of themselves fits into the scansion of the final line of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." To tell the truth – I must have *something* that I sing at those moments – but on second thought, it could well be that my howling is squelched by fellow travelers before I get to the final and vastly problematic line. "I’ll never love anything but beautiful moo-moos ever again" doesn’t quite make it, and ruins the minimalism of the first three lines anyway, but on the other hand, maybe if you think of it as a blues tune, that’s okay . . . but it *isn’t* a blues tune (if anything it is a kind of dance hall tune, or something, I think), nor even a blue-grass tune, it having been spontaneously composed in the foothills of the Catskills, where grass does not even pretend to be blue . . . Blue moo. Any suggestions for a last line will be entertained, but probably not adopted, because – well – the moo-moos and I have become so used to my just kind of trailing off into murmurous adoration . . . Beauty(ful) moo-moo. i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society". oh boy. i hope you don’t think i was implying that you aren’t a productive member of society. she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways. i don’t get it. what’s your point? none of the above attributes make or break a productive member of society. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse. what made the difference? my guess is that you and your sister have different lessons to learn in this go-round on earth. yes, you are who you are. fwiw, i think you are one of the most beautiful people i have had the pleasure of knowing. you are kind, thoughtful, gentle, thought-provoking, funny as h*ll, and talented beyond belief. i see no ‘worse’ in any of that. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs* okay. i understand that. thpy is certainly expensive. and worthwhile for many people. personally, i don’t think i would be comfortable with my p*rps paying for me to be healthy emotionally. to me it would be like they had control over my healing. does he have money? if you won a lawsuit that forced him to pay for your thpy, could he in actuality do that? for you and any of the others who might join you? again, personally speaking, i’d just rather see him in jail. child m*lesters are despised in jail. and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice. i’m glad that you feel this way. but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped? sounds like there are lots of unanswered questions about who would or wouldn’t join you. i guess that is where you need to begin. i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it. too bad you didn’t have a tape recorder on you at the time….. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way. i understand that. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;) farm? you have a farm? moo of course it was a crime. and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society? if you feel you are up to trying, then by all means, go for it. in some ways i envy you because you know who your p*rp was. for me there were several strangers so i have no clue. his is accountable. always. sometimes the accounting doesn’t take place during this lifetime. but it does take place. always. why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well. it seems to me that if you pursue this, (okay if ~i~ were to pursue this) that so much energy and emotions would be bouncing around that it would at least feel like he still had power over me. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think. i’m glad you can think about it and that your thinking has calmed over the course of your journey. only you know what is right for you. you have support from me no matter what. domino jt (socrates) man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing.
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Response:
[snip] there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged.
An injustice that you pay for all of your therapy, perhaps. I’m not sure what it is you’re after with acquiring a public acknowledgement. Is there a need to publically shame him for what he’s done? why should i still keep his secret?
Hmm … back when he coerced you into keeping what he was doing secret, I thought the ’secret’ was his doing. I struggle with this remaining the case when ppl become an adult. why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society?
Within the scope of current laws permitting, you could try, although I’m not sure what you deem being held accountable as looking like and feel like I’m getting mixed messages from you about what it is that you really want out of suing him. You say you want monies from him for therapy and yet it also sounds like you want more than monies for t’py. why do i have to pay to clean up his mess?
Hmm, perhaps bc irregardless of how others have treated us, we’re still responsible for our own life? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to.
Perhaps asking yourself what possible-probable negative consequences might result from suing him? I understand the need and journey of reclaiming one’s life and I get a hint that this may be inpart what you’re after – guess maybe wondering if there are yet other paths to choose in order to reach one’s intended destination. SofT
Response:
prolly say, "I’ll always love moo-moos the best," just because somehow you could love them the best and love someone/thing else the best, too, because best is just best and most seems bester than best – so we likes to give room for other bests (beasts?). Or even, closer to the original, "I’ll always love moo-moos again," being that we will always love them whenever new time we see them again." Or even – "I’ll always love moo-moos forever," which certainly strains the scansion, but fits the sentiment exactly. *Not* overboard? Well, at least they’re *on board* which is what counts for something. I used to be pitched into a state of swooning, ecstatic delight over the oldest G*teway commercial with the cow face that just said, deadpan, "Moo." And there was another favorite of mine from just before they ditched the cow ads, where the cow and Dave were driving an 18-wheeler singing "Whip it, whip it," talking about burning CDs. I think G*teway ought to be outlawed now that it’s retired the cow. What Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll always love moo-moos the most! How’s that? It scans okay. Depends on your sentiment, I suppose. I have moocow accessories in my car. ONly a visor and a waste baggie thingy. Not overboard. But I do love moos too. jane Moo, too. I have a song that I like to sing when passing by a field of beautiful moo-moos. The title is "Beautiful Moo-Moos" and is sung to the tune of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." The lyrics are approximately: Beautiful beautiful moo-moos Beautiful beautiful moooooo-mooooooos Beautiful beautiful moo-moos mmmumbmbmle mmemmbell mumbmles The mumbles are because nothing about beautiful moo-moos in and of themselves fits into the scansion of the final line of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." To tell the truth – I must have *something* that I sing at those moments – but on second thought, it could well be that my howling is squelched by fellow travelers before I get to the final and vastly problematic line. "I’ll never love anything but beautiful moo-moos ever again" doesn’t quite make it, and ruins the minimalism of the first three lines anyway, but on the other hand, maybe if you think of it as a blues tune, that’s okay . . . but it *isn’t* a blues tune (if anything it is a kind of dance hall tune, or something, I think), nor even a blue-grass tune, it having been spontaneously composed in the foothills of the Catskills, where grass does not even pretend to be blue . . . Blue moo. Any suggestions for a last line will be entertained, but probably not adopted, because – well – the moo-moos and I have become so used to my just kind of trailing off into murmurous adoration . . . Beauty(ful) moo-moo. i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society". oh boy. i hope you don’t think i was implying that you aren’t a productive member of society. she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways. i don’t get it. what’s your point? none of the above attributes make or break a productive member of society. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse. what made the difference? my guess is that you and your sister have different lessons to learn in this go-round on earth. yes, you are who you are. fwiw, i think you are one of the most beautiful people i have had the pleasure of knowing. you are kind, thoughtful, gentle, thought-provoking, funny as h*ll, and talented beyond belief. i see no ‘worse’ in any of that. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs* okay. i understand that. thpy is certainly expensive. and worthwhile for many people. personally, i don’t think i would be comfortable with my p*rps paying for me to be healthy emotionally. to me it would be like they had control over my healing. does he have money? if you won a lawsuit that forced him to pay for your thpy, could he in actuality do that? for you and any of the others who might join you? again, personally speaking, i’d just rather see him in jail. child m*lesters are despised in jail. and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice. i’m glad that you feel this way. but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped? sounds like there are lots of unanswered questions about who would or wouldn’t join you. i guess that is where you need to begin. i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it. too bad you didn’t have a tape recorder on you at the time….. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way. i understand that. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;) farm? you have a farm? moo of course it was a crime. and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society? if you feel you are up to trying, then by all means, go for it. in some ways i envy you because you know who your p*rp was. for me there were several strangers so i have no clue. his is accountable. always. sometimes the accounting doesn’t take place during this lifetime. but it does take place. always. why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well. it seems to me that if you pursue this, (okay if ~i~ were to pursue this) that so much energy and emotions would be bouncing around that it would at least feel like he still had power over me. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think. i’m glad you can think about it and that your thinking has calmed over the course of your journey. only you know what is right for you. you have support from me no matter what. domino jt (socrates) man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first.
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Response:
WAIT!! Can I still get cow boxes? I am not a cow person per say but I _LOVE_ those cow boxes. Rainbow Colors (Jill, throwing yet another post to the void, knowing it will be lost in the ether but hoping anyway…) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – prolly say, "I’ll always love moo-moos the best," just because somehow you could love them the best and love someone/thing else the best, too, because best is just best and most seems bester than best – so we likes to give room for other bests (beasts?). Or even, closer to the original, "I’ll always love moo-moos again," being that we will always love them whenever new time we see them again." Or even – "I’ll always love moo-moos forever," which certainly strains the scansion, but fits the sentiment exactly. *Not* overboard? Well, at least they’re *on board* which is what counts for something. I used to be pitched into a state of swooning, ecstatic delight over the oldest G*teway commercial with the cow face that just said, deadpan, "Moo." And there was another favorite of mine from just before they ditched the cow ads, where the cow and Dave were driving an 18-wheeler singing "Whip it, whip it," talking about burning CDs. I think G*teway ought to be outlawed now that it’s retired the cow. What Beauty. I’ll always love moo-moos the most! How’s that? It scans okay. Depends on your sentiment, I suppose. I have moocow accessories in my car. ONly a visor and a waste baggie thingy. Not overboard. But I do love moos too. jane Moo, too. I have a song that I like to sing when passing by a field of beautiful moo-moos. The title is "Beautiful Moo-Moos" and is sung to the tune of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." The lyrics are approximately: Beautiful beautiful moo-moos Beautiful beautiful moooooo-mooooooos Beautiful beautiful moo-moos mmmumbmbmle mmemmbell mumbmles The mumbles are because nothing about beautiful moo-moos in and of themselves fits into the scansion of the final line of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." To tell the truth – I must have *something* that I sing at those moments – but on second thought, it could well be that my howling is squelched by fellow travelers before I get to the final and vastly problematic line. "I’ll never love anything but beautiful moo-moos ever again" doesn’t quite make it, and ruins the minimalism of the first three lines anyway, but on the other hand, maybe if you think of it as a blues tune, that’s okay . . . but it *isn’t* a blues tune (if anything it is a kind of dance hall tune, or something, I think), nor even a blue-grass tune, it having been spontaneously composed in the foothills of the Catskills, where grass does not even pretend to be blue . . . Blue moo. Any suggestions for a last line will be entertained, but probably not adopted, because – well – the moo-moos and I have become so used to my just kind of trailing off into murmurous adoration . . . Beauty(ful) moo-moo. i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society". oh boy. i hope you don’t think i was implying that you aren’t a productive member of society. she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways. i don’t get it. what’s your point? none of the above attributes make or break a productive member of society. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse. what made the difference? my guess is that you and your sister have different lessons to learn in this go-round on earth. yes, you are who you are. fwiw, i think you are one of the most beautiful people i have had the pleasure of knowing. you are kind, thoughtful, gentle, thought-provoking, funny as h*ll, and talented beyond belief. i see no ‘worse’ in any of that. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs* okay. i understand that. thpy is certainly expensive. and worthwhile for many people. personally, i don’t think i would be comfortable with my p*rps paying for me to be healthy emotionally. to me it would be like they had control over my healing. does he have money? if you won a lawsuit that forced him to pay for your thpy, could he in actuality do that? for you and any of the others who might join you? again, personally speaking, i’d just rather see him in jail. child m*lesters are despised in jail. and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice. i’m glad that you feel this way. but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped? sounds like there are lots of unanswered questions about who would or wouldn’t join you. i guess that is where you need to begin. i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it. too bad you didn’t have a tape recorder on you at the time….. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way. i understand that. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;) farm? you have a farm? moo of course it was a crime. and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society? if you feel you are up to trying, then by all means, go for it. in some ways i envy you because you know who your p*rp was. for me there were several strangers so i have no clue. his is accountable. always. sometimes the accounting doesn’t take place during this lifetime. but it does take place. always. why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well. it seems to me that if you pursue this, (okay if ~i~ were to pursue this) that so much energy and emotions would be bouncing around that it would at least feel like he still had power over me. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think. i’m glad you can think about it and that your thinking has calmed over the course of your journey. only you know what is right for you. you have support from me no matter what. domino jt (socrates) man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so
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Response:
raunchy humor alert… a a a a a a a a a a a a
2?
(would that be a bi-action suit?) *fond smiles* jt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beauty. a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my thpy, meds, etc, to date, and has mentioned a book called shifting the truth, for survivors. it’s about suing the p*rps. anyone have any thoughts? h*ll, we could start a class action suit against my ncle….how many ppl do you need for that??? jt
Response:
i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society".
oh boy. i hope you don’t think i was implying that you aren’t a productive member of society. she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways.
i don’t get it. what’s your point? none of the above attributes make or break a productive member of society. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse.
what made the difference? my guess is that you and your sister have different lessons to learn in this go-round on earth. yes, you are who you are. fwiw, i think you are one of the most beautiful people i have had the pleasure of knowing. you are kind, thoughtful, gentle, thought-provoking, funny as h*ll, and talented beyond belief. i see no ‘worse’ in any of that. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs*
okay. i understand that. thpy is certainly expensive. and worthwhile for many people. personally, i don’t think i would be comfortable with my p*rps paying for me to be healthy emotionally. to me it would be like they had control over my healing. does he have money? if you won a lawsuit that forced him to pay for your thpy, could he in actuality do that? for you and any of the others who might join you? again, personally speaking, i’d just rather see him in jail. child m*lesters are despised in jail. and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice.
i’m glad that you feel this way. but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped?
sounds like there are lots of unanswered questions about who would or wouldn’t join you. i guess that is where you need to begin. i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it.
too bad you didn’t have a tape recorder on you at the time….. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way.
i understand that. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;)
farm? you have a farm? moo of course it was a crime. and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society?
if you feel you are up to trying, then by all means, go for it. in some ways i envy you because you know who your p*rp was. for me there were several strangers so i have no clue. his is accountable. always. sometimes the accounting doesn’t take place during this lifetime. but it does take place. always. why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well.
it seems to me that if you pursue this, (okay if ~i~ were to pursue this) that so much energy and emotions would be bouncing around that it would at least feel like he still had power over me. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think.
i’m glad you can think about it and that your thinking has calmed over the course of your journey. only you know what is right for you. you have support from me no matter what. domino – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jt (socrates) man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that way…. see below… i appreciate your concern. i don’t write anything that i’m not willing to stand behind and acknowledge. sometimes it’s tough. but…i have this set of rules that i have to live by, and one of them says "don’t say anything that can b*te you in the ash later". it’s why i work so hard at being honest. see…the thing is…we know who would swear the oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. there’s only one of us who would promise that. heck, when i got m*rried (the actual legal ceremony), i didn’t initially say "i do". i said "i suppose…" and everyone cracked up. (the officiant did require me to say "i do", but…) that’s because Thomas wasn’t on first. Thomas is strong enough to handle whatever a cross-examining attourney could throw at me. The question is: how much *should* Thomas have to take? for that matter, if the rest of us make sure Thomas doesn’t take too much on himself, whatever our response is, it’ll be genuine, honest, and real. and we *will* take care of us. we *will* make sure that everyone within me is able to remember our truth, and not have it be distorted by someone whose job it is to ask misleading questions. i wouldn’t be thinking seriously about this if i didn’t think i were ready. the message i got at my sunday morning job today reinforced my thinking. the thing is…for every survivor who steps forward, it makes it that much easier for the next one to step forward. it was when i realized that, had i not been ab*sed as a child, i could have earned a phd in music by 1996, that i started cr*ing. there are lots and lots of people who should have (and really, had every right to) fall through the cracks……children who grew up with parents who didn’t give a sh*t, parents who used drugs, parents who neglected and even abused their children, threw their children away, etc. yet many of these children have grown up to be productive members of society. they are living their dreams in spite of how they were treated as they grew up. i didn’t achieve my childhood dream of being a vet. why? because i believed my father when he told me over and over again that i wasn’t smart enough. so i let that dream die. as an adult (mid 30s) he told me that he really regretted telling me because it wasn’t true. i cried for my lost dream. but then put it behind me because i had a different direction in which to go. point is, if you want that phd in music, earn it now. if you have another direction, mourn your loss and move on towards your new goals. i was robbed. yes, you were robbed. he should pay. how? suing him means you have monetary designs. does he have money? and how much money is owed you? what amount of money could ever make things right? could ever make 1996 return so you could have your phd in music? imo, as long as you have thoughts like this, he still ~owns~ you. do you think he is letting his life and his desires pass him by because he is spending all his time focusing on ~you~? h*ll no. stop letting him own you, jt. show him that what you suffered at his hands has only served to make you stronger. punish him by being everything you can be. everything you want to be. everything you deserve to be. be good to yourselves. domino jt Hi jt, You might have to testify and then be cross examined. Everything you’ve posted here would be trotted out to try to hurt you. I don’t want to see you hurt any more than you have been already. The p*rp will pay the price; you can bet on that one. It just won’t be here. H*nn*b*l a friend got me working on figuring out the costs of my
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Nope, not lost. I see you. Just what I need: another box. Cow or not, I’m glad someone is saving me from myself. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WAIT!! Can I still get cow boxes? I am not a cow person per say but I _LOVE_ those cow boxes. Rainbow Colors (Jill, throwing yet another post to the void, knowing it will be lost in the ether but hoping anyway…) prolly say, "I’ll always love moo-moos the best," just because somehow you could love them the best and love someone/thing else the best, too, because best is just best and most seems bester than best – so we likes to give room for other bests (beasts?). Or even, closer to the original, "I’ll always love moo-moos again," being that we will always love them whenever new time we see them again." Or even – "I’ll always love moo-moos forever," which certainly strains the scansion, but fits the sentiment exactly. *Not* overboard? Well, at least they’re *on board* which is what counts for something. I used to be pitched into a state of swooning, ecstatic delight over the oldest G*teway commercial with the cow face that just said, deadpan, "Moo." And there was another favorite of mine from just before they ditched the cow ads, where the cow and Dave were driving an 18-wheeler singing "Whip it, whip it," talking about burning CDs. I think G*teway ought to be outlawed now that it’s retired the cow. What Beauty. I’ll always love moo-moos the most! How’s that? It scans okay. Depends on your sentiment, I suppose. I have moocow accessories in my car. ONly a visor and a waste baggie thingy. Not overboard. But I do love moos too. jane Moo, too. I have a song that I like to sing when passing by a field of beautiful moo-moos. The title is "Beautiful Moo-Moos" and is sung to the tune of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." The lyrics are approximately: Beautiful beautiful moo-moos Beautiful beautiful moooooo-mooooooos Beautiful beautiful moo-moos mmmumbmbmle mmemmbell mumbmles The mumbles are because nothing about beautiful moo-moos in and of themselves fits into the scansion of the final line of "Beautiful Brown Eyes." To tell the truth – I must have *something* that I sing at those moments – but on second thought, it could well be that my howling is squelched by fellow travelers before I get to the final and vastly problematic line. "I’ll never love anything but beautiful moo-moos ever again" doesn’t quite make it, and ruins the minimalism of the first three lines anyway, but on the other hand, maybe if you think of it as a blues tune, that’s okay . . . but it *isn’t* a blues tune (if anything it is a kind of dance hall tune, or something, I think), nor even a blue-grass tune, it having been spontaneously composed in the foothills of the Catskills, where grass does not even pretend to be blue . . . Blue moo. Any suggestions for a last line will be entertained, but probably not adopted, because – well – the moo-moos and I have become so used to my just kind of trailing off into murmurous adoration . . . Beauty(ful) moo-moo. i hear what you are saying. to be honest, my sis got the same treatment as me, and she’s a "productive member of society". oh boy. i hope you don’t think i was implying that you aren’t a productive member of society. she’s also thin, gorgeous, poised, intelligent and reasonably compassionate. and she’s talented, in many ways. i don’t get it. what’s your point? none of the above attributes make or break a productive member of society. i don’t know what made the difference. i blame birth order. it doesn’t matter. i am who i am, for better or worse. what made the difference? my guess is that you and your sister have different lessons to learn in this go-round on earth. yes, you are who you are. fwiw, i think you are one of the most beautiful people i have had the pleasure of knowing. you are kind, thoughtful, gentle, thought-provoking, funny as h*ll, and talented beyond belief. i see no ‘worse’ in any of that. as for the monetary concerns…mostly what i’d like is to have thpy paid for. *shrugs* okay. i understand that. thpy is certainly expensive. and worthwhile for many people. personally, i don’t think i would be comfortable with my p*rps paying for me to be healthy emotionally. to me it would be like they had control over my healing. does he have money? if you won a lawsuit that forced him to pay for your thpy, could he in actuality do that? for you and any of the others who might join you? again, personally speaking, i’d just rather see him in jail. child m*lesters are despised in jail. and regarding him still owning me…i’m not so sure. i’ve stopped having flshbacks to what he did. life’s reasonably good for me now. it’s really nice. i’m glad that you feel this way. but…he "got" at least 8 members of my extended family that i know about. not one of us has stepped forward and declared openly in the family that this is what he is. my mthr still doesn’t want to cause waves…2 of his vctms are d88d. my sis just wants to forget about it. he told us that no one would believe us. he told us that it was our fault, that his wife would get mad at us, that everyone would h8 us and blame us. if none of the 8 ever steps forward about this, will all of us still believe him? if one of us steps forward, will some of the others be helped? sounds like there are lots of unanswered questions about who would or wouldn’t join you. i guess that is where you need to begin. i don’t care about him, or his reaction. i’ve already confronted him myself. i’ve looked him in the eye and heard him admit it. too bad you didn’t have a tape recorder on you at the time….. but paying for thpy, both monetarily and emotionally, is draining. i feel guilty a lot for having such difficulty earning the money i need to pay for that thpy. i forget, a lot, that i’m the victim of a crime. it’s really hard to see it that way. i understand that. it *was* a crime. prosecuting/suing him might make it easier for me to see that. it might not. i won’t bet the farm on it. ;) farm? you have a farm? moo of course it was a crime. and, honestly, i don’t feel like i have a lot riding on this? i mean, i don’t feel particularly manic about this…i don’t much care what the outcome is…i’m not trying to save the world or anything…but… there’s an injustice here. i want that made known and publicly acknowledged. why should i still keep his secret? why shouldn’t i *try* to have him held accountable for his actions by this society? if you feel you are up to trying, then by all means, go for it. in some ways i envy you because you know who your p*rp was. for me there were several strangers so i have no clue. his is accountable. always. sometimes the accounting doesn’t take place during this lifetime. but it does take place. always. why do i have to pay to clean up his mess? fwiw, i’m writing this in a contemplative manner. i’m not distraught, angry, or feeling particularly self-righteous. i’m looking more at the logic. i don’t see a logical reason *not* to. he can only have power over me if i let him. i think it’s possible for me to pursue some sort of action against him and not let him have power over me. i could be wrong. i’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts on that, as well. it seems to me that if you pursue this, (okay if ~i~ were to pursue this) that so much energy and emotions would be bouncing around that it would at least feel like he still had power over me. I’m able to see that this particular interest at this time is probably a red herring, something to keep me from having to focus on "what’s really bothering me". i’ve sort of taken this interest out from time to time in my healing journey and looked it over to see where i stood. this is the first time i’ve thought about this without feeling the wild chaos inside. thanks for helping me to think. i’m glad you can think about it and that your thinking has calmed over the course of your journey. only you know what is right for you. you have support from me no matter what. domino jt (socrates) man i hope this doesn’t seem harsh, it really isn’t meant that
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My newsreader says I have 41 unread posts. I can’t seem, however, to access them. If I’m not answering something, I’m not ignoring you. I just can’t HEAR you. :-( Sheila
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In article <20020708180526.27192.00002…@mb-cr.aol.com>, WhansaMi <whans…@aol.com> wrote: >My newsreader says I have 41 unread posts. I can’t seem, however, to access >them. If I’m not answering something, I’m not ignoring you. I just can’t HEAR >you. :-( >Sheila
I usually use trn to read news, but lately I found some stuff in google that never made it to me with trn. Plus Kitten responded to something I wrote awhile ago, that she *just* saw. I don’t know enough about all this to make any suggestions, but it does seem like something is off lately… Deb R.
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whans…@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message <news:20020708180526.27192.00002535@mb-cr.aol.com>… > My newsreader says I have 41 unread posts. I can’t seem, however, to access > them. If I’m not answering something, I’m not ignoring you. I just can’t HEAR > you. :-( > Sheila
Okay..so did you hear the one about the Rabbi, a priest and a monkey? Nevermind. Did you hear the one where I called you want-soma-me, cause I can not for the life of me figure out how to pronounce your e name? KAT
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>Did you hear the one where I called you want-soma-me, cause I can not >for the life of me figure out how to pronounce your e name? >KAT
"wan-sa-mee", with the emphasis on the last syllable, and secondary emphasis on the first. I think. An online friend gave it to me, so I never actually heard him say it. Supposedly, it means "one who seeks the lotus flower" in some Asian dialect. Sheila
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One who seeks the Lotus Flower? Is there a reason that particular one spoke to you? Nothing against the Lotus Flower…but there’s so much else to seek…like world peace, end to hunger, winning the lottery, not another shrubbery in the white house…:-0 It’s pretty sounding though. KAT
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KHaydn wrote: > One who seeks the Lotus Flower? Is there a reason that particular one spoke to > you? Nothing against the Lotus Flower…but there’s so much else to seek…like > world peace, end to hunger, winning the lottery, not another shrubbery in the > white house…:-0
Hey hey hey!! Don’t go there, Kat! ;-D Jennifer
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On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 03:01:44 -0400, Jennifer <gaz…@theironpig.com> wrote: >KHaydn wrote: >>not another shrubbery in the white house…:-0 >Hey hey hey!! Don’t go there, Kat! ;-D
What??? No discussions about the latest, greatest, all-natural pesticides? No spraying down the white house with 20%-strength vinegar? Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Oh…the pesticides…dag why didn’t I think of that? Okay Jennifer really…strategeree man has just about hit my limit with his remarkable ability to milk any situation and yet still show his uh…intelligence. I was driving yesterday listening to NPR when I could have *sworn* the news report of little shrub had him saying ‘all these corporations will be held to the fire for their accounting misconducts and the ‘amuricun’ people deserve better than that…’ and in the next report about his own creative business dealings he says ‘ business accounting is not always black and white.’ hmmm…could he at least try to pretend to be clever? (Getting off the platform and running for my life) Kat
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On 10 Jul 2002 15:02:03 GMT, heraw…@aol.com (Herawood) wrote: >Oh…the pesticides…dag why didn’t I think of that? >Okay Jennifer really…strategeree man has just about hit my limit with his >remarkable ability to milk any situation and yet still show his >uh…intelligence. I was driving yesterday listening to NPR when I could have >*sworn* the news report of little shrub had him saying ‘all these corporations >will be held to the fire for their accounting misconducts and the ‘amuricun’ >people deserve better than that…’ and in the next report about his own >creative business dealings he says ‘ business accounting is not always black >and white.’ >hmmm…could he at least try to pretend to be clever? >(Getting off the platform and running for my life)
Hey, you can come hide in this small TX town where reside *MANY* non-fans of the shrub. Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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>Hey, you can come hide in this small TX town where reside *MANY* >non-fans of the shrub.
Where is alt.controversial.politics when you need it? Geri –Don’t order the vegetarian special at the local diner. Everyone will instantly know you are a tourist. A vegetarian dish here is a steak cut from a corn-fed cow. – Excerpt from Memo From Nebraska Board of Tourism
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On 10 Jul 2002 16:26:45 GMT, gplen…@aol.commotion (Geri and sometimes Brian) wrote: >>Hey, you can come hide in this small TX town where reside *MANY* >>non-fans of the shrub. >Where is alt.controversial.politics when you need it?
Hey, I was talking abt the WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam War vets down at the legion hall. Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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>One who seeks the Lotus Flower? Is there a reason that particular one spoke >to >you? Nothing against the Lotus Flower…but there’s so much else to >seek…like >world peace, end to hunger, winning the lottery, not another shrubbery in the >white house…:-0 >It’s pretty sounding though. >KAT
Kat, it was an interfaith chat room. Seeking "truth" and all that. :-) Sheila
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>Kat, it was an interfaith chat room. Seeking "truth" and all that. :-) >Sheila
Ah! Well its beautiful, now that you taught me how to say it! You know…I need a great "truth seeking" type of name for my new production company. I came up with one and somebody already had it. I’m wishy washy about another one I’m thinking about. I need something that has to do with "light". ideas? Kat
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>Hey, you can come hide in this small TX town where reside *MANY* >non-fans of the shrub. >Kitten
Heehee. My mom – who still lives in Houston – really loved Bush Sr…she runs an antique store and had Laura Shrub visit one day with her entourage many years ago and decided right then and there to hate Bush Jr et al… Frankly, hubby looked at me when this latest news report came out and said "Honey, there’s always Canada." ROFL!! Kat
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>Hey, I was talking abt the WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam War vets down >at the legion hall.
All I have to say is…WOW! Yikes. Kat
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"Herawood" <heraw…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020710175558.15060.00003970@mb-ci.aol.com… > Frankly, hubby looked at me when this latest news report came out and said > "Honey, there’s always Canada." ROFL!!
You say that like it’s not actually an option……. Adrienne
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On 10 Jul 2002 21:55:58 GMT, heraw…@aol.com (Herawood) wrote: >>Hey, you can come hide in this small TX town where reside *MANY* >>non-fans of the shrub. >>Kitten >Heehee. My mom – who still lives in Houston – really loved Bush Sr…she runs >an antique store and had Laura Shrub visit one day with her entourage many >years ago and decided right then and there to hate Bush Jr et al… >Frankly, hubby looked at me when this latest news report came out and said >"Honey, there’s always Canada." ROFL!!
Chewy’s said that a time or two. Even tried to get me to agree to buy a ranch up on the Frazier River. Told him it’s too damn cold up there. Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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On 10 Jul 2002 21:57:14 GMT, heraw…@aol.com (Herawood) wrote: >>Hey, I was talking abt the WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam War vets down >>at the legion hall. >All I have to say is…WOW! Yikes.
Hey, this guys were around these parts before before shrub was a seed. They know him and how he works. And they don’t like him one little bit. He definitely *wouldn’t* make a good cowboy. Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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>He definitely *wouldn’t* make a good cowboy.
You say that like its a bad thing. :-) Geri –Don’t order the vegetarian special at the local diner. Everyone will instantly know you are a tourist. A vegetarian dish here is a steak cut from a corn-fed cow. – Excerpt from Memo From Nebraska Board of Tourism
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>From: heraw…@aol.com >Heehee. My mom – who still lives in Houston – really loved Bush Sr
Call me brain dead and dense. I haven’t been able to figure out what all this controversy over shrubs has been about til now… I can honestly say I don’t even remember who I voted for for president. I focus on the local elections, (you know the ones no one but *me* votes in you can actually FEEL the power of your vote when it comes to councilperson, etc…. but at least now I can quit scanning the headlines for Shrub Wars… "This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" — Bob Seger Jennaii
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>Told him it’s too damn cold up there. >Kitten
What about Mexico? jane
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>I >focus on the local elections, (you know the ones no one but *me* votes in >you can actually FEEL the power of your vote when it comes to councilperson, >etc….
I vote in those, too. We are concentrated on getting the chimp we have in the governor’s office out. Geri –Don’t order the vegetarian special at the local diner. Everyone will instantly know you are a tourist. A vegetarian dish here is a steak cut from a corn-fed cow. – Excerpt from Memo From Nebraska Board of Tourism
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On 10 Jul 2002 22:49:21 GMT, gplen…@aol.commotion (Geri and sometimes Brian) wrote: >>He definitely *wouldn’t* make a good cowboy. >You say that like its a bad thing. :-)
It’s a horrible thing. Good cowboys have integrity and honor. Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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On 10 Jul 2002 22:52:22 GMT, jenn…@aol.comnojunk (Jennaii) wrote: >>From: heraw…@aol.com >>Heehee. My mom – who still lives in Houston – really loved Bush Sr >Call me brain dead and dense. I haven’t been able to figure out what all this >controversy over shrubs has been about til now…
Hey, I *TRIED* to tell ya’ll! Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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On 10 Jul 2002 23:22:33 GMT, gplen…@aol.commotion (Geri and sometimes Brian) wrote: >>I >>focus on the local elections, (you know the ones no one but *me* votes in >>you can actually FEEL the power of your vote when it comes to councilperson, >>etc…. >I vote in those, too. We are concentrated on getting the chimp we have in the >governor’s office out.
Have him nominated for president. Kitten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You can always tell a Texan, but you can’t tell him much. - Chris Wall =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it. — Ty Murray =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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between moments of lucidity. However, Randi’s refusal to sign Benneth’s application form before (and if) they go to bat could be construed as a dodge. I don’t know what a lawyer would say. Well, I do. The Challenge is a unilateral contract. It’s kind of an unusual insrument, if you can call it that. I call it b’llsh’t. Anyway, there’s no clear legal recourse until he signs it as far as I can see, and it really takes an expert on unilaterals to tell us what it is, and even then, what kind of an agreement is it really? And what’s it’s jurisdiction? All I have
Are you saying that you’ve sought legal counsel (or done your own research) and have been told or learned that there’s no legal guarantee that if you win the preliminary according to the mutually agreed upon protocol that Alain and Randi are working on — including the homeopathic pharmacist and trusty NIST biochemist, the cameras, the accounting firm, et al. — that Randi will be legally bound to negotiate a final trial with you? This is the exact opposite of what Mona, a lawyer, is insisting to be the case. from Randi are about five or six dozen e-mails from the man either to me or about me, and all derogatory or threats to humiliate me. In one he types to me an angry sounding letter in ALL CAPS and commands me to F*CK OFF. Now why does he have to act so hostile if he’s got a valid offer? And here’s more questions:
I’ve been tempted to type those words to you myself, and I’ve only been on the receiving end of a fraction of the venom you’ve directed at Randi. NAME ONE APPLICANT HE’S EVER TESTED.
Why should it really matter as far as *your* case is concerned? I do have the name and ph. number of the homeopath (or his secretary; I can’t remember) he tested, BTW — I got it from Randi — and when I offered to share it with you a few months ago, you basically said "who cares?" WHO AT GOLDMAN SACHS WILL VERIFY THE AWARD?
Have you actually phoned or faxed the GS numbers given on the application form you signed? WHY CAN’T WE SEE THE RECORDS OF PREVIOUS TRIALS IF THERE ARE ANY?
That would be highly desirable, but why should it prevent you from pursuing your shot at the Challenge? WHY WON’T RANDI SIGN HIS OWN CHALLENGE?
I’d also like to know; but it would seem his signature isn’t required on this "unilateral contract" for it to be enforceable. If all the answers to these questions is so easy, then why is he hiding them?
I don’t know why he’s hiding "most* of them (where’s the secrecy about Goldman Sachs, for instance?), but again, if you’re legally protected and can agree on a protocol that gives you a fair chance to prove your ability, what’s the problem? Why let these details deter you from moving in for the kill? SYd, I’ve been screaming about this for over half a year now. After a while it’s gets to be funny and I actually start feeling sorry for him. So what’s left to do but clown around until he wakes up from the smell of his reputation in flames? Really, if he wants me to act sensibly, then he could start the ball rolling by simply typing a few names so we could check this out. ANd why is he Maybe if he thinks I’m a crazy fool it will give him the needed confidence and schedule a test of my claims. But of course, that would mean he’d have to sign the paper, wouldn’t it? And he won’t do tthat, will he? He’s never done it before, and he’ll never do it ever. But maybe you can work on him to endorse my proposal to open testing up to the schools using my oat test and the Jones/Jenkins Yeast test. http://www.marius.net/yeast.html
He is so gonna like that idea, don’t ya know! At this point I’ve given up any hope of getting my million bucks from his cheap carney act inthe way he’s suggested it can’t be done, so what do I have to lose by revealing my methods? Let a bunch of little school kids validate my claims. What could be better? Besides, I got other ways of doing this he hasn’t even dreamed of yet. WHERE"S MY MILLION RANDI? I GOT YOUR PROOF BOTH LIVING AND MECHANICAL, RIGHT HERE. . . . COME AND GET IT!
I can hear his little footsteps galloping your way this very minute. Syd http://www.escape.ca/~sgb Dealing with Depression Naturally and other books by Syd Baumel. …and cool record reviews!
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What do you mean, erf? You have to sign away your right to sue when you apply, don’t you?
It’s hd, erf is jus’ a ‘lil noise. This have been debated to death. The clause in the challenge dealing with lawsuits wouldn’t prevent someone from suing to collect the prize if they won. Plus substantial damages. ruf
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Sue him. You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie. Try thinking before you type. Good advice Doggie, you should follow it!!! The point is that Randi makes you sign a contract so you CANNOT sue him. Understand now? The person has no recourse if Randi refuses to pay. He must not be too sure of his challenge if he has to resort to such tactics.
A lawyer, we already checked out her credentials, who works in this field, has opined that the clause in Randi’s contract wouldn’t prevent someone who won the challenge from suing for their money. It isn’t the purpose of the clause. And if you’d followed idiots like Riley G., you’d see why it’s necessary. arf
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Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome. It is common sense. And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up?
Sue him. You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie. Try thinking before you type. erf
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So describe the experiments. — John Walkup
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Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome. It is common sense. And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up? Sue him. You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie. Try thinking before you type. erf
What do you mean, erf? You have to sign away your right to sue when you apply, don’t you? kb
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Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome. It is common sense. And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up? Sue him. You really like to ask stupid questions Herbie. Try thinking before you type. erf
Good advice Doggie, you should follow it!!! The point is that Randi makes you sign a contract so you CANNOT sue him. Understand now? The person has no recourse if Randi refuses to pay. He must not be too sure of his challenge if he has to resort to such tactics.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very, very well put. I wish the skeptical community would openly ponder the possibility that the Emperor has been wearing too many clothes. Your recommendations for tightening the screws on the ‘Randi Challenge’ thing are valuable. The Challenge is an important signal tower for those skeptics who prefer not to investigate the paranormal for themselves. Most believe that until someone wins the million, the evidence supporting PSI amounts to precicely zero and there is no need to read and take seriously published articles or books, no matter how well recieved these are by the more critical scientific establishment. Randi therefore has a lot of power, and as long as he is able to dodge promising applicants evidence obtained by serious researchers will not readily reach it’s audience. I have no direct evidence that Randi has ever tried to dodge promising applicants, other than putting Benneth on hold for no good reason for three months.
Make that seven months, Syd . . . he’s been doing the Zwinge waltz since last January . . . Ironically, now it’s Randi who has been nose-to- the-grindstone since ~July 31 in trying to negotiate a trial for Benneth (not *with* Benneth, and I can’t say that I blame him), but Benneth has been playing (or being) the clown, fool, crazed Prince of Denmark … between moments of lucidity. However, Randi’s refusal to sign Benneth’s application form before (and if) they go to bat could be construed as a dodge. I don’t know what a lawyer would say.
Well, I do. The Challenge is a unilateral contract. It’s kind of an unusual insrument, if you can call it that. I call it b’llsh’t. Anyway, there’s no clear legal recourse until he signs it as far as I can see, and it really takes an expert on unilaterals to tell us what it is, and even then, what kind of an agreement is it really? And what’s it’s jurisdiction? All I have from Randi are about five or six dozen e-mails from the man either to me or about me, and all derogatory or threats to humiliate me. In one he types to me an angry sounding letter in ALL CAPS and commands me to F*CK OFF. Now why does he have to act so hostile if he’s got a valid offer? And here’s more questions: NAME ONE APPLICANT HE’S EVER TESTED. WHO AT GOLDMAN SACHS WILL VERIFY THE AWARD? WHY CAN’T WE SEE THE RECORDS OF PREVIOUS TRIALS IF THERE ARE ANY? WHY WON’T RANDI SIGN HIS OWN CHALLENGE? If all the answers to these questions is so easy, then why is he hiding them? SYd, I’ve been screaming about this for over half a year now. After a while it’s gets to be funny and I actually start feeling sorry for him. So what’s left to do but clown around until he wakes up from the smell of his reputation in flames? Really, if he wants me to act sensibly, then he could start the ball rolling by simply typing a few names so we could check this out. ANd why is he Maybe if he thinks I’m a crazy fool it will give him the needed confidence and schedule a test of my claims. But of course, that would mean he’d have to sign the paper, wouldn’t it? And he won’t do tthat, will he? He’s never done it before, and he’ll never do it ever. But maybe you can work on him to endorse my proposal to open testing up to the schools using my oat test and the Jones/Jenkins Yeast test. http://www.marius.net/yeast.html At this point I’ve given up any hope of getting my million bucks from his cheap carney act inthe way he’s suggested it can’t be done, so what do I have to lose by revealing my methods? Let a bunch of little school kids validate my claims. What could be better? Besides, I got other ways of doing this he hasn’t even dreamed of yet. WHERE"S MY MILLION RANDI? I GOT YOUR PROOF BOTH LIVING AND MECHANICAL, RIGHT HERE. . . . COME AND GET IT! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, even the most zealous skeptics agree that at least some small PSI effects have been demonstrated to exist. And still, the million dollars have not been won. This fact alone should be enough to convince skeptics that the Challenge is not as subtle a barometer of PSI activity as they might think. Either Randi revamps his program by exposing the mechanics and dynamics of his application policy and by publishing the details of tests and preliminaries, or he should throw in the towl and declare the program void. That would hopefully send skeptics back to doing what they should, namely informing themselves about the status of psi-research as it stand today, instead of wasting their time standing at attention in Randi’s ranks. Joris van Dorp Syd
Yeah, Joris has written the definitive statement and speaks my sentiments exactly. John Benneth at the World’s greatest website Click here and see why . . . http://www.marius.net/ (Nose to the grindstone, yeah right sure. Most of it is his complaining about all the e-mail he gets about this . . . and by the way, Art Bell told me he does this . . . and Art has invtied him to appear on the program, but you know magic is a vanishing art)
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. Look, Randi, why don’t you take two of the tests we’ve furnished for you, and your people, whoever they are, can do them immediately as your preliminary tests. In fact, why doesn’t everyone who reads this do the test or do something to have it done in their area?.
What type of test are you talking about? Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome. It is common sense. Peter Moran
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Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome. It is common sense.
And what are these people supposed to do when they prove what they are doing and Randi refuses to pay up?
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. Look, Randi, why don’t you take two of the tests we’ve furnished for you, and your people, whoever they are, can do them immediately as your preliminary tests. In fact, why doesn’t everyone who reads this do the test or do something to have it done in their area?. What type of test are you talking about?
We’ve come up with a protocol that narrows down the arugment to separating homeopathically potentized solutions form non. The problem now is to get Randi to agree to a test. To provide further evidence, and because Randi’s refusing to accept the information as confirmation of our cliam, we’re releasing two different but easy methods by which to do what we’re claiming can be done. One makes use of oat seeds and takes a few days to get results, but the other uses yeast and the results can be seen within 24 hours sing a microscope. All these people who have mouths bigger than their brains can now see for themselves using objective measures whether it works or not. So now the argument about homeopathy can go from "he said" to "I saw." Try it and see for yourself if you won’t agree that Randi owes me a million bucks. Also if I was dealing with all the crackpots wanting to take on Randi’s challenge I would as sure as day want to have some protection against being sued if they don’t like the outcome. It is common sense.
As one of the crackpots, I have to say that getting an outcome as you put it, seems to be impossible to do with Randi. I applied to take the test seven months ago, and now he’s saying he won’t communicate with me. When I’ve sent evidence to him he becomes furious, starts writing me long letters in all caps, and cussing me out. He won’t even sign and return his own challenge. If he’s afreaid of being sued, then why did he make the offer in the first place? If he’s so sure I can’t win, then why doesn’t schedule the trial and get it over with? And so far, we have not seen any reports of previous trials, nor have we been able to find anyone he’s ever tested or have we ever seen a signed copy of his CHallenge for anyone previously. To me, from first hand knowledge, the Psychic Challenge is not a valid offer, nor does it seem to have bever been one, and it makes me wonder how much valid phenomena he’s been suppressing. Most of his communication to us has been hostile.. Perhaps you can tell us where reports of former trials can be found. And how many of these "crackpots" do you know who have tried to sue him? Peter Moran
Thanks for responding to this, Peter. If I can furnish anymore information, let me know. John Benneth http://www.marius.net/proof.html
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DIRECTLY RELEVANT: Getting on with it Organization: Personal References: 1 My chemist (PhD in analytical chemistry) can do the preparation any weekend in November. The work will all be done at Mount Saint Mary’s College. Will Benneth be ready by then? Randi
Well how do you like that? Will Benneth be ready then? Benneth was ready the day hefiled the application to the Psychic CHallenge, on January 26th, 1999 http://www.marius.net/application.html After seven months of bickering Randal finally agrees to a test at Mt. St. Mary’s College on some weekend in November. But what college is he talking about? Here we have a puicture of some scientists sitting around a desk at the college you propose. Is this NIST? http://www.msmcollege.com/science_dep.htm Or is this it? http://www.msmary.edu/science/ Maybe this is it? http://www.msmc.edu/webdex/science/science/home.htm What are you trying to pull now, Mr. Zwinge? Seriously, I think we ALL can do better than this. Look, Randi, why don’t you take two of the tests we’ve furnished for you, and your people, whoever they are, can do them immediately as your preliminary tests. In fact, why doesn’t everyone who reads this do the test or do something to have it done in their area?. Maybe everyone could go to the science editor of their local newspaper or the head of the science department at your local college, start there, ask who could pull this off, who would be interested? Tell them why it’s important. Tell them its to validate or debunk what purposts to be the world’s greatest doctrine of energy medicine ever known. Money and lives are riding on it. The yeast test is the quickest one to do, but the oat test is the easiest. Do both yourself, or get one of your people to do it, Randi, and everyone else should be doing the same. What’s the big deal here? If a dummy, as you call me, can pull it off, why can’t you, a MacArthur Genius, do it? You’re the genius here who never finished high school? Is the problem not enough time? If it’s time, we would have had this done long ago. You would have had the confidence to shoot me down immediately. Or at least try. But you haven’t done it because you already lost this war long ago. You’ve seen plenty of evidence to prove that what you’re talking about is real, and so all you can do is to hurl ad hominem. Is it that it isn’t important? I don’t think so. I think it’s real important. Homeopathy is a growth industry. The consumer is demanding that his government use its superior resources to rectify its trade. And it WILL happen, within a few years, homeopathy will be regulated, as it is in France with the bug remedies like the clap (Medorrhinum), because they are not similia, they are idem, and Hahnemann enjoins us against the use of idem for present manifestations of disease. . . . There’s a lot of people out there who believe that there really is something to homeopathy, and if they’re wrong, they’re being defrauded and this is a grand hoax that should be exposed. But if the opposite is true, then this may be further validation for what appears to a lot of people as being the greatest known medical doctrine to appear in modern times. It already has become, within only 200 years, the second most used doctrine of healing in the world today, second only to Chinese medicine. That’s a lot of people for a high school dropout to characterize as stupid. So what I suggest we do is start promoting these two tests. I’ll start posting the recipes at my web site at http://www.marius.net And I’ll hit the newsgroups with this. This way anyone can have access to the tests and do them for themselves to see if this is a real phenomenon. Skeptics, believers, and agnostics alike can all have the same simple procedure. All the St. Mary’s Colleges all over the world can have the test by simply logging on to http://marius.net . And then if we need to, we’ll start collecting affidavits from people who have done testing and we’ll present these to Goldman Sachs as as the preliminary evidence. Randi, you can do these experiments for yourself and see the results. I’ll give you the method and tell you what ingredients you need to do it with, I’ll consult with your top scientists, although you might want to call on your quantum physicist to render an opinion for you as well about this And lets bring in some outside testimony for what this is, that is if you’re still not convinced. People like Richard Gerber, M.D., the author of VIBRATIONAL MEDICINE. And Andrew Weil, M.D. Let’s officially bring in a representative from NIST, let’s have invite the APS to run the tests. Let’s also being in a well known jurist, somebody on the level of a Bork to oversee any formal test. ANd let’s use everyday people to create the double blind, people neither you nor I have anything to do with selecting. And let’s go before the media with this. We can squeeze this for everything it’s worth. You can hype your book and I can hype mine. Then instead of everyone having an opinion about what someone else has claimed to have done, they can do for it themselves. Or do you just want to go on arguing and trading barbs like we’ve been doing? Either way, I’m going to enjoy it. I’ve got more than enough evidence to prove the hypothesis, plenty of published studies, and more than enough method, and I’ve got a whole library worth of ad hominem remarks I can make about Hamilton Zwinge, either way I’m bucked up solid and real confident I can’t lose. So what’s it going to be, Randal? Either way it’s fine, or you can get your little white hanky out and concede now, maybe we can work out a cash settlement. I don’t care, but how is it again I’m supposed to lose? In some dark little classroom at some little ignominious school in England? If after doing the little experiments I’ve given you and everyone else you all come up with nothing , well, then by a putative decision we’ll have our results. If they’re negative and people are complaining that this doesn’t work, then we can all consider that the hypothesis was wrong. But if the results are positive, if you’re getting deluged by school children from Mount St. Mary’s College in England who are seeing the same 150% growth over the controls that I recorded in the oat test, if people are replicating the work of Jones and Jenkins with yeast, then maybe that will be a cue that it’s time to schedule a formal trial of your hypothesis, that , how did Mr. Thuro, aka Happy Dog, put it? *The purpose of the challenge is to refute the argument that there is insufficient incentive for promoters of the paranormal, like homeopaths, to prove their assertions.* So as a promoter of what you would deem the paranormal, I have to say that after seven months you have yet to show me the bait. And this upsets me. I took your offer to be made in good faith and I think that when the American public sees what it is that you’ve been pulling, they’re going to feel disenchanted with you, not homeopathy. I think those of us who have applied to your little challenge feel there has been little incentive to take your test. You won’t even sign your own challenge. YOu won’t even give us the name of the person at Goldman Sachs whose supposed to confirm that you even have a prize. That’s not too much to ask for people who are risking reputation and expense to meet the demands of your challenge. I think when the American public sees what it is you’re doing, they’re going to be upset with people like you and Bob Park, because they take you to be a modern Diogenes, dedicated to the truth, not deception. Yet that is all your craft speaks for itself, are these perpetual deceptions that serve no one but yourself in the way they aggrandize you. And is it hurting people? Yes, your recalcitrance to look at the facts is indeed hurting people, it’s killing people, because it creating a situation where superior medical treatment is being withheld from them because its been denounced by the likes of you and your ever decreasing gang. Now we could sit back and let you simply become a footnote in history, but I’m not content with that. I want to see you rectified, but I also want my money . . . and Mr. Zwinge, I’m going to get it. . Well, do you think we can have grounds for a formal test, perhaps on that weekend in November? Sound fair enough? That should speed things up, don’t you think? If you like, we could schedule next February, or MArch. I don’t care I could move a few appointments around and make time for you and your friends. I’m not in any special rush. Time money and public interest are all on my side. What have you got? We’ve already seen the rabbit. So let’s start with your mystery scientist. Let me speak to him on the phone, and he and I can collaborate on how he can see these things for himself. This weekend. Is that getting on with it? John Benneth 503-661-4842
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