Question:

I probably will end up separating out the accounting and investment advice. The person is a CPA and it is really tax and accounting advice that I am looking for.  I am also interested in getting some general financial planning advice, but only on an hourly-fee basis.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some general comments about using accountants/CPA’s who are also licensed to sell securities, etc. Here’s why I am asking this question.  I recently received life insurance proceeds and inherited a small part-time business and other assets after the passing of my husband.  I also began receiving survivor benefits from both my husband’s pension plan and from Social Security.  I asked a friend of mine who owns his own business if he knew of an accountant who could help me sort out all of this out, give me tax advice, etc., and he suggested the accountant that he uses.  I began using the accountant, and he has been very helpful so far. But I just now realized that the accountant is also a "Financial Planner" in the sense that he is licensed to sell securities.  This came up when the accountant began talking about "placing me" in certain funds that would be right for me, etc.  I explained that I had not realized until that point that he also was licensed to sell securities.  He said that, of course, I was under no obligation to go with any of the funds that might recommend. In other words, I think he meant that he could function as either my accountant, my financial planner, or both, depending on my needs or desires. This got me to thinking of the whole question of the use of accountants who are also licensed securities brokers.  What I was really looking for was an "accountant" — which to me meant someone who could give me completely independent financial and tax advice, prepare tax returns, etc. — all on an hourly fee basis.  Through what I am sure was an honest miscommunication, I ended up with an accountant who is also a "financial planner" — someone who is a licensed  securities broker and can earn various fees and commissions depending on where I decide to invest money. Is it becoming more common for accountants to also function as licensed securities brokers? it is becoming more common for accountants to be also investment advisors or financial planners with a securities license but first make sure it is a CPA you are dealing with since you need tax and accounting advice. (Insurance agents and financial planners can also do taxes!)     CPA’s are licensed by the state and you can usually verify this on the state’s licensing website. A properly licensed financial planner is obligated to disclose fee arrangements but make sure you understand everything a financial planner or accountant wants to sell to you before you commit –    In many cases it may be better to separate the accounting and taxe advice from the investment advice especially if you have a business.

Response:

I will take it slowly as you suggested.  Mostly, I just want accounting advice and suggestions of the types of investments that might be good for me.  But I don’t want the person who is suggesting the types of investments to also be someone who is selling me those investments.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All of us have not resorted to that.  Some of us remain independent in thought and in deed.  I would recommend that you work slowly with this person.  Don’t let him take advantage of you.  Ask him about his commission arrangements before he sells you on some "way to invest your money".  If you feel like those are fair to you, then go for it.  If not, find some accountant who is not involved in this manner. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

All of us have not resorted to that.  Some of us remain independent in thought and in deed.  I would recommend that you work slowly with this person.  Don’t let him take advantage of you.  Ask him about his commission arrangements before he sells you on some "way to invest your money".  If you feel like those are fair to you, then go for it.  If not, find some accountant who is not involved in this manner. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

http://www.webcpa.com/article.cfm?articleid=9685

Response:

Thanks.  The article is interesting.  A company that I used to work for was using a CPA for accounting and, at one point, asked the CPA if he knew of anyone who could help the company set up a retirement plan.  The CPA gave the name of a financial planner who shared office space with the CPA, but who had his own separate financial planning business.  The financial planner then met with the company reps and they worked out a retirement plan.  That type of arrangement seems like one that would make sense because the accounting business and the financial planning business were two separate businesses that happened to share office space.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.webcpa.com/article.cfm?articleid=9685

Response:

Thanks again to everyone for your responses. Just as an update, I did work everything out with the accountant.  I met with him and talked over the miscommunications, and we agreed that I would continue using him for tax, accounting, and general financial advice (including financial planning suggestions — such recommended asset allocations, etc), but that I would do any selection and/or purchasing of specific funds or investments on my own or through independent sources and not through him.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some general comments about using accountants/CPA’s who are also licensed to sell securities, etc. Here’s why I am asking this question.  I recently received life insurance proceeds and inherited a small part-time business and other assets after the passing of my husband.  I also began receiving survivor benefits from both my husband’s pension plan and from Social Security.  I asked a friend of mine who owns his own business if he knew of an accountant who could help me sort out all of this out, give me tax advice, etc., and he suggested the accountant that he uses.  I began using the accountant, and he has been very helpful so far. But I just now realized that the accountant is also a "Financial Planner" in the sense that he is licensed to sell securities.  This came up when the accountant began talking about "placing me" in certain funds that would be right for me, etc.  I explained that I had not realized until that point that he also was licensed to sell securities.  He said that, of course, I was under no obligation to go with any of the funds that might recommend. In other words, I think he meant that he could function as either my accountant, my financial planner, or both, depending on my needs or desires. This got me to thinking of the whole question of the use of accountants who are also licensed securities brokers.  What I was really looking for was an "accountant" — which to me meant someone who could give me completely independent financial and tax advice, prepare tax returns, etc. — all on an hourly fee basis.  Through what I am sure was an honest miscommunication, I ended up with an accountant who is also a "financial planner" — someone who is a licensed  securities broker and can earn various fees and commissions depending on where I decide to invest money. Is it becoming more common for accountants to also function as licensed securities brokers?

Response:

Thanks for the "both sides" viewpoint.  I can see how it could be frustrating to see what would be best for the client and want to be able to offer both the tax return help and the financial planning services as needed.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Janet — I could give this to you from both sides.  Years ago I did accounting and taxes, and stopped.  Then I went into financial planning, and stopped. Now I’m back doing accounting and taxes and may end up doing planning again as well. There are reasons to do both, that you get into from both sides. As a tax person, you find lots of people who need IRA’s or SIMPLE IRA’s or something like that, and all you can do is recommend — and see them come back year after year, never having done anything because they didn’t get around to it or never found someone they trusted to work with, et cetera.  In the meantime, they are losing possible tax benefits and not saving for their own future.  Frustrating to watch. Then, as a planner, you see people who want to save for their future. One standard item you look at as a planner is tax returns.  And you find messes that cost people money that you _know_ you could have prevented. Frustrating again. If the person you’ve found is someone you just need tax help from, tell them that’s your prime focus right now.  And pay the hourly fee for the work.  If they have other ideas they think could help, set up a separate time to talk about those.  Get the fee structure explained for planning work.  Some people charge a separate fee, some work commission only, some have a combination.  As long as you aren’t paying for a service you don’t need/want, and you and the provider are both clear on what you’re doing when, it can work just fine. Catherine I am looking for some general comments about using accountants/CPA’s who are also licensed to sell securities, etc. Here’s why I am asking this question.  I recently received life insurance proceeds and inherited a small part-time business and other assets after the passing of my husband.  I also began receiving survivor benefits from both my husband’s pension plan and from Social Security.  I asked a friend of mine who owns his own business if he knew of an accountant who could help me sort out all of this out, give me tax advice, etc., and he suggested the accountant that he uses.  I began using the accountant, and he has been very helpful so far. But I just now realized that the accountant is also a "Financial Planner" in the sense that he is licensed to sell securities.  This came up when the accountant began talking about "placing me" in certain funds that would be right for me, etc.  I explained that I had not realized until that point that he also was licensed to sell securities.  He said that, of course, I was under no obligation to go with any of the funds that might recommend. In other words, I think he meant that he could function as either my accountant, my financial planner, or both, depending on my needs or desires. This got me to thinking of the whole question of the use of accountants who are also licensed securities brokers.  What I was really looking for was an "accountant" — which to me meant someone who could give me completely independent financial and tax advice, prepare tax returns, etc. — all on an hourly fee basis.  Through what I am sure was an honest miscommunication, I ended up with an accountant who is also a "financial planner" — someone who is a licensed  securities broker and can earn various fees and commissions depending on where I decide to invest money. Is it becoming more common for accountants to also function as licensed securities brokers?

Response:

I am looking for some general comments about using accountants/CPA’s who are also licensed to sell securities, etc. Here’s why I am asking this question.  I recently received life insurance proceeds and inherited a small part-time business and other assets after the passing of my husband.  I also began receiving survivor benefits from both my husband’s pension plan and from Social Security.  I asked a friend of mine who owns his own business if he knew of an accountant who could help me sort out all of this out, give me tax advice, etc., and he suggested the accountant that he uses.  I began using the accountant, and he has been very helpful so far. But I just now realized that the accountant is also a "Financial Planner" in the sense that he is licensed to sell securities.  This came up when the accountant began talking about "placing me" in certain funds that would be right for me, etc.  I explained that I had not realized until that point that he also was licensed to sell securities.  He said that, of course, I was under no obligation to go with any of the funds that might recommend. In other words, I think he meant that he could function as either my accountant, my financial planner, or both, depending on my needs or desires. This got me to thinking of the whole question of the use of accountants who are also licensed securities brokers.  What I was really looking for was an "accountant" — which to me meant someone who could give me completely independent financial and tax advice, prepare tax returns, etc. — all on an hourly fee basis.  Through what I am sure was an honest miscommunication, I ended up with an accountant who is also a "financial planner" — someone who is a licensed  securities broker and can earn various fees and commissions depending on where I decide to invest money. Is it becoming more common for accountants to also function as licensed securities brokers?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some general comments about using accountants/CPA’s who are also licensed to sell securities, etc. Here’s why I am asking this question.  I recently received life insurance proceeds and inherited a small part-time business and other assets after the passing of my husband.  I also began receiving survivor benefits from both my husband’s pension plan and from Social Security.  I asked a friend of mine who owns his own business if he knew of an accountant who could help me sort out all of this out, give me tax advice, etc., and he suggested the accountant that he uses.  I began using the accountant, and he has been very helpful so far. But I just now realized that the accountant is also a "Financial Planner" in the sense that he is licensed to sell securities.  This came up when the accountant began talking about "placing me" in certain funds that would be right for me, etc.  I explained that I had not realized until that point that he also was licensed to sell securities.  He said that, of course, I was under no obligation to go with any of the funds that might recommend. In other words, I think he meant that he could function as either my accountant, my financial planner, or both, depending on my needs or desires. This got me to thinking of the whole question of the use of accountants who are also licensed securities brokers.  What I was really looking for was an "accountant" — which to me meant someone who could give me completely independent financial and tax advice, prepare tax returns, etc. — all on an hourly fee basis.  Through what I am sure was an honest miscommunication, I ended up with an accountant who is also a "financial planner" — someone who is a licensed  securities broker and can earn various fees and commissions depending on where I decide to invest money. Is it becoming more common for accountants to also function as licensed securities brokers?

it is becoming more common for accountants to be also investment advisors or financial planners with a securities license but first make sure it is a CPA you are dealing with since you need tax and accounting advice. (Insurance agents and financial planners can also do taxes!)     CPA’s are licensed by the state and you can usually verify this on the state’s licensing website. A properly licensed financial planner is obligated to disclose fee arrangements but make sure you understand everything a financial planner or accountant wants to sell to you before you commit –    In many cases it may be better to separate the accounting and taxe advice from the investment advice especially if you have a business.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am looking for some general comments about using accountants/CPA’s who are also licensed to sell securities, etc. Here’s why I am asking this question.  I recently received life insurance proceeds and inherited a small part-time business and other assets after the passing of my husband.  I also began receiving survivor benefits from both my husband’s pension plan and from Social Security.  I asked a friend of mine who owns his own business if he knew of an accountant who could help me sort out all of this out, give me tax advice, etc., and he suggested the accountant that he uses.  I began using the accountant, and he has been very helpful so far. But I just now realized that the accountant is also a "Financial Planner" in the sense that he is licensed to sell securities.  This came up when the accountant began talking about "placing me" in certain funds that would be right for me, etc.  I explained that I had not realized until that point that he also was licensed to sell securities.  He said that, of course, I was under no obligation to go with any of the funds that might recommend. In other words, I think he meant that he could function as either my accountant, my financial planner, or both, depending on my needs or desires. This got me to thinking of the whole question of the use of accountants who are also licensed securities brokers.  What I was really looking for was an "accountant" — which to me meant someone who could give me completely independent financial and tax advice, prepare tax returns, etc. — all on an hourly fee basis.  Through what I am sure was an honest miscommunication, I ended up with an accountant who is also a "financial planner" — someone who is a licensed  securities broker and can earn various fees and commissions depending on where I decide to invest money. Is it becoming more common for accountants to also function as licensed securities brokers?

All of us have not resorted to that.  Some of us remain independent in thought and in deed.  I would recommend that you work slowly with this person.  Don’t let him take advantage of you.  Ask him about his commission arrangements before he sells you on some "way to invest your money".  If you feel like those are fair to you, then go for it.  If not, find some accountant who is not involved in this manner. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

Hi Janet — I could give this to you from both sides.  Years ago I did accounting and taxes, and stopped.  Then I went into financial planning, and stopped.   Now I’m back doing accounting and taxes and may end up doing planning again as well.   There are reasons to do both, that you get into from both sides.   As a tax person, you find lots of people who need IRA’s or SIMPLE IRA’s or something like that, and all you can do is recommend — and see them come back year after year, never having done anything because they didn’t get around to it or never found someone they trusted to work with, et cetera.  In the meantime, they are losing possible tax benefits and not saving for their own future.  Frustrating to watch. Then, as a planner, you see people who want to save for their future.   One standard item you look at as a planner is tax returns.  And you find messes that cost people money that you _know_ you could have prevented.   Frustrating again.   If the person you’ve found is someone you just need tax help from, tell them that’s your prime focus right now.  And pay the hourly fee for the work.  If they have other ideas they think could help, set up a separate time to talk about those.  Get the fee structure explained for planning work.  Some people charge a separate fee, some work commission only, some have a combination.  As long as you aren’t paying for a service you don’t need/want, and you and the provider are both clear on what you’re doing when, it can work just fine.   Catherine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some general comments about using accountants/CPA’s who are also licensed to sell securities, etc. Here’s why I am asking this question.  I recently received life insurance proceeds and inherited a small part-time business and other assets after the passing of my husband.  I also began receiving survivor benefits from both my husband’s pension plan and from Social Security.  I asked a friend of mine who owns his own business if he knew of an accountant who could help me sort out all of this out, give me tax advice, etc., and he suggested the accountant that he uses.  I began using the accountant, and he has been very helpful so far. But I just now realized that the accountant is also a "Financial Planner" in the sense that he is licensed to sell securities.  This came up when the accountant began talking about "placing me" in certain funds that would be right for me, etc.  I explained that I had not realized until that point that he also was licensed to sell securities.  He said that, of course, I was under no obligation to go with any of the funds that might recommend. In other words, I think he meant that he could function as either my accountant, my financial planner, or both, depending on my needs or desires. This got me to thinking of the whole question of the use of accountants who are also licensed securities brokers.  What I was really looking for was an "accountant" — which to me meant someone who could give me completely independent financial and tax advice, prepare tax returns, etc. — all on an hourly fee basis.  Through what I am sure was an honest miscommunication, I ended up with an accountant who is also a "financial planner" — someone who is a licensed  securities broker and can earn various fees and commissions depending on where I decide to invest money. Is it becoming more common for accountants to also function as licensed securities brokers?

Response:

Question:

Thank you all for you advice so far, but as depressing as it may be, I think I really have to just stick with it for the time being.  I have come to understand just *how* mentally unbalanced my hb is and with that realization, I am just going to have to untangle myself and my affairs (financial and emotional, not romantic tho I wish:-) quietly behind his back.  One day, he’ll come home and I won’t and he won’t have anything to hold over me ever again.   I really appreciate it so much that you guys re:posted to me.  Sometimes I am just dying to get away, but then reality hits and I remember how good it will be if I can hang in there.  When I am gone, I will pick my nails really loud!  I am going to blast my Grease CD (he doesn’t know I bought it again after he broke the last one, he hates Grease, how stupid!)  I am going to be ME, OWNER OF MYSELF!  G-d help the poor fool that I marry if I ever do again, he will never have a homemade meal!  Sorry, felt good to vent.  I allow myself to get excited when he’s not around, back in disguise when he’s home. I am working on finishing my associates in accounting, I may not have quite a year left, but I’d rather not plan myself too short.  I do have access to some school resources which I am already taking advantage of, but it’s a small college, no dorms, and I am tapped out on student loans.  Btw, we already live on beans, he calls it his paycheck, hahahahah (ok, that was really mean, but it felt so damn good!).  The financial aid I can receive from DFACS is 250/mo and I am already getting a pell grant which is about 900 every 31/2 mos.  Oh lord, I gotta cut this short and send it, he’s home, no problem, just being extra secretive…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Evil Villain here. Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. Evil Villain, Thank you for your advice, I didn’t know that I could do that. If it weren’t for the fact that he is the income provider (while not much, its more than I can contribute right now which is 0) and would stop paying at least the mortgage, if not everything, then I would definitely do that. … -Laura B (Damsel in Distress) Evil Wimmenz (aka Demoness Diva) here… How about a roommate rent-paying? Janie — The reason why rivers and seas receive the homage of a hundred mountain streams is that they keep below them.  – Lao Tse

Response:

Lots of stuff snipped I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.

Its great that you are going to school.  Do you mind if I ask what your major is? feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash

Does your school have student housing? Is it possible for you and your daughter to live in student housing while you finish school?  Is it possible to get help from family, either a place to stay or help with babysitting? Then you could go ahead, sell your house, pay your mother back, and STILL stay in school.  It might mean taking out a student loan, it might mean living on beans for a year, but lots of people do this.   It makes for a rough year, but generally pays off in the long run.  Note: I’m not necessarily saying you have to leave your husband – only you can make that decision – I’m just saying that you may have access to other resources. As a student, you should have access to a lot of resources through your school – you can probably get free counseling, may be eligible for subsidized child care, health care through the school, or you may be eligible for an on-campus part time job to help support you and your daughter.  Any change in your income, like losing your husbands income, can possibly be offset by increased financial aid.  Talk to the financial aid and student affairs offices at your school.  They may be able to help you. S.B.

Response:

    Then I say file it, along with a restraining order, as well, since you seem to be afraid of him. The court will deal with the rest.      I might add, get a damned good attorney to file the appropriate paperwork for you. While he is unaware that this is about to happen, now is the proper time, otherwise, you WILL get a fight. I guarantee it.     Your attorney will know the particulars, just tell him what it is you want to do and leave it in his/her hands. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Evil Villain, Thank you for your advice, I didn’t know that I could do that.  If it weren’t for the fact that he is the income provider (while not much, its more than I can contribute right now which is 0) and would stop paying at least the mortgage, if not everything, then I would definitely do that.  I’m grateful for your advice as I am positive I will have a problem with him leaving when it gets closer to D-day (about 1 yr away if I can’t find another solution).  I know, I am kind of stuck.  I really don’t have much choice other than to deal with him for a year and play make-believe.  I know make believe will make it harder emotionally for him when D-day comes and there is a greater chance of complication at that time, but he says that as long as the papers say I am his wife, then I am and he will not act like anything but a husband.  My way of dealing with things I can’t change is to make jokes about them, though I am taking it seriously, so please don’t think I am being glib.  I just do whatever it takes to get through the day. Thank you again. -Laura B (Damsel in Distress)     Evil Villain here.     Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade. Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med. Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’ He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD, disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three. He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our

… read more »

Response:

  Evil Villain, Thank you for your advice, I didn’t know that I could do that.  If it weren’t for the fact that he is the income provider (while not much, its more than I can contribute right now which is 0) and would stop paying at least the mortgage, if not everything, then I would definitely do that.  I’m grateful for your advice as I am positive I will have a problem with him leaving when it gets closer to D-day (about 1 yr away if I can’t find another solution).  I know, I am kind of stuck.  I really don’t have much choice other than to deal with him for a year and play make-believe.  I know make believe will make it harder emotionally for him when D-day comes and there is a greater chance of complication at that time, but he says that as long as the papers say I am his wife, then I am and he will not act like anything but a husband.  My way of dealing with things I can’t change is to make jokes about them, though I am taking it seriously, so please don’t think I am being glib.  I just do whatever it takes to get through the day. Thank you again. -Laura B (Damsel in Distress)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Evil Villain here.     Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade. Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med. Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’ He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall). I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real

… read more »

Response:

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You’re in a hell of a situation, and my heart goes out to you. But you two do need a separation, this can’t be good for your little girl. You will get some sound advice here from the regulars, just take it with a grain of salt. Keep us updated. Take care, Cheesy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade.  Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient. Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med.  Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’  He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall).  I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real people reasoning holds nothing for him) that if he was no longer emotionally attached to me, then he wouldn’t get so mad and punch the wall, unless he gets mad and punches walls regardless of me.  I don’t know what else to tell him, I think he is agreeing to the rest and using this one thing as the ‘deal breaker’ excuse.  If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash.  My hope was that we could create a peaceful home (hah, fantasyland I guess) where we can take our own corners and ride the next year to a better financial position for both of us.  I also want to try and be honest about this and not make it a nasty fight about everything, but I am not against lying my ass off and pretending for the next year.  I will hate every second of it, but I will be able to have some kind of hope in mine and my daughter’s future.  I don’t want to have to screw him, but I will is what I am saying.  I feel like he’s forcing my hand and he’s not going to like it when it comes to fruition. At what point do I shut my mouth, smile and nod and begin plans for myself and my daughter?  I don’t want to have to do this, I am not too good at

… read more »

Response:

I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade.  Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med.  Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’  He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall).  I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real people reasoning holds nothing for him) that if he was no longer emotionally attached to me, then he wouldn’t get so mad and punch the wall, unless he gets mad and punches walls regardless of me.  I don’t know what else to tell him, I think he is agreeing to the rest and using this one thing as the ‘deal breaker’ excuse.  If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash.  My hope was that we could create a peaceful home (hah, fantasyland I guess) where we can take our own corners and ride the next year to a better financial position for both of us.  I also want to try and be honest about this and not make it a nasty fight about everything, but I am not against lying my ass off and pretending for the next year.  I will hate every second of it, but I will be able to have some kind of hope in mine and my daughter’s future.  I don’t want to have to screw him, but I will is what I am saying.  I feel like he’s forcing my hand and he’s not going to like it when it comes to fruition. At what point do I shut my mouth, smile and nod and begin plans for myself and my daughter?  I don’t want to have to do this, I am not too good at living a lie or being submissive, so it means being yelled at alot, but I will do my damnedest to hold on for as long as I can.  My options seem to be to me: ‘Stay and pay daily consequences with some almost definite hope for furture’ or ‘leave and pay fewer consequences that are of greater magnatude’.  I have talked to others (2) and they say options are 1: ‘be smart and leave’ or ‘be stupid and stay’, but I have always been one to ‘think before I leap’ and am therefore resistant to their advice as leaving seems too much like instant gratification without any preparation or precaution.  I already made that mistake when continuing this relationship after I … read more »

Response:

    Evil Villain here.     Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade. Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med. Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’ He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall). I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real people reasoning holds nothing for him) that if he was no longer emotionally attached to me, then he wouldn’t get so mad and punch the wall, unless he gets mad and punches walls regardless of me.  I don’t know what else to tell him, I think he is agreeing to the rest and using this one thing as the ‘deal breaker’ excuse.  If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash.  My hope was that we could create a peaceful home (hah, fantasyland I guess) where we can take our own corners and ride the next year to a better financial position for both of us.  I also want to try and be honest about this and not make it a nasty fight about everything, but I am not against lying my ass off and pretending for the next year.  I will hate every second of it, but I will be able to have some kind of hope in mine and my daughter’s future.  I don’t want to have to screw him, but I will is what I am saying.  I feel like he’s forcing my hand and he’s not going to like it when it comes to fruition. At what point do I shut my mouth, smile and nod and begin plans for myself and my daughter?  I don’t want to have to do this, I am not too good at living a lie or being

… read more »

Response:

Question:

Hi Warren I’m not a CPA or an accountant, other than for my own businesses, nor am I that familiar with those tricky little wordings.  But I would like to take a stab at your question. I would select b.) Proportional performance; as my answer because, 1.) The revenues have been collected, & 2.) The product and/or service is still pending completion and/or delivery. Although a.) Point of sale; could be a feasible alternative, I did not select it because, 1.) Cost of goods sold is not yet realized, & 2.) Delivery is not yet completed. Answer c.) Completed Contract; was not selected because, even though the payment has been made completing the customer portion of the contract, delivery has not yet been made, therefore the vendors portion of the contract is not yet completed. Answer d.) Cost recovery; was not selected because, Cost of good sold is not recoverable until it actually occurs.  Pre-payments do not fall into the recovery category. TTUL Gary

Response:

Your analysis skills are working just fine. Match revenue and costs to period. Just one thing in this case the money is prepaid. That leaves only (a.) & (b.) C. No funds til done. No income til done. (Often not allowed)

Warren, I agree with John here in that: 1)  Your approach is solid. 2)  The objective is to match revenue and cost by period. 3)  The process of elimination clearly rules out answers C & D for reasons that have already been discussed. In my opinion, the process of elimination also rules out answer A.  My reasoning is that "point of sale", as I understand it, would result in recognizing all the revenue up front while much of the cost would occur in later periods. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

 Good afternoon,  Thank you all very much for your replies, you have been most helpful.  Sincerely,  Warren

Response:

Good afternoon, Thank you for reading. I am a student in an Intermediate Accounting course. I’ve found a multiple choice question in the end of the chapter concerning revenue recognition that I am having trouble with (no solutions manual available I am afraid). The question is below. Fictional Magazine sells 12 – month, 24 – month and 30 – month subscription contracts.  The company’s method of revenue recognition would most likely be: a. Point of sale. b. Proportional performance. C. Completed contract. d. Cost recovery. Point of sale (which I assume to be equivalent to point of delivery) seems plausible, but in the event of a 24 or 30 month contract, would it be appropriate to recognize the revenue in this manner? The delivery of goods is occurring over a long period of time, which would indicate the earnings process is not virtually complete until the contract is completed. When analyzing the completed contract choice as an answer (which involves recognizing all revenues and related expenses at the time of completion and typically for construction projects), this would not seem to be correct. Some measure of periodic accomplishment must be recognized in the periods prior to the completion of the contract, correct? Regarding proportional performance, the fundamentals of this concept seem appropriate for this scenario. According to our text, proportional performance involves recognizing revenue based on progress to date. However, our text indicates this method is used for service sales. Regarding cost recovery, this would not seem correct given there was no indication of an usual amount of uncertainty for cash collections. In addition, no information was given about the inability to estimate bad debts. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Warren

Response:

Your analysis skills are working just fine. Match revenue and costs to period. Just one thing in this case the money is prepaid. That leaves only (a.) & (b.) C. No funds til done. No income til done. (Often not allowed)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good afternoon, Thank you for reading. I am a student in an Intermediate Accounting course. I’ve found a multiple choice question in the end of the chapter concerning revenue recognition that I am having trouble with (no solutions manual available I am afraid). The question is below. Fictional Magazine sells 12 – month, 24 – month and 30 – month subscription contracts.  The company’s method of revenue recognition would most likely be: a. Point of sale. b. Proportional performance. C. Completed contract. d. Cost recovery. Point of sale (which I assume to be equivalent to point of delivery) seems plausible, but in the event of a 24 or 30 month contract, would it be appropriate to recognize the revenue in this manner? The delivery of goods is occurring over a long period of time, which would indicate the earnings process is not virtually complete until the contract is completed. When analyzing the completed contract choice as an answer (which involves recognizing all revenues and related expenses at the time of completion and typically for construction projects), this would not seem to be correct. Some measure of periodic accomplishment must be recognized in the periods prior to the completion of the contract, correct? Regarding proportional performance, the fundamentals of this concept seem appropriate for this scenario. According to our text, proportional performance involves recognizing revenue based on progress to date. However, our text indicates this method is used for service sales. Regarding cost recovery, this would not seem correct given there was no indication of an usual amount of uncertainty for cash collections. In addition, no information was given about the inability to estimate bad debts. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Warren

Response:

Question:

bienvenue — RB Cohors Praetoria

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Judith: muchas gracias! Sat, May 19, 2001 Cancer (June 21 – July 22) Excellent day for standing barefoot on the lawn and wiggling your toes. Under no circumstance should you stand barefoot on the lawn and wiggle your nose. It simply isn’t done. I wiggled my nose anyway, and sure enough I was picked up by the police. judith, just kidding

Response:

For Judith: Sat, May 19, 2001 today’s quote: I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough. — Mark Twain Aries (March 21 – April 19) You need to do something about that nervous laugh. Practice an "evil laugh" and use that instead. Then at least, you’ll be able to hear everyone else’s nervous laughter. Taurus (April 20 – May 20) Good day to doodle. Gemini (May 21 – June 20) It’s ok to whistle while you work. Your co-workers will draw the line at yodelling while you work, however. They’re probably just jealous. Cancer (June 21 – July 22) Excellent day for standing barefoot on the lawn and wiggling your toes. Under no circumstance should you stand barefoot on the lawn and wiggle your nose. It simply isn’t done. Leo (July 23 – August 22) Soon you will get into accounting, "just for the thrill of it". Virgo (August 23 – September 22) Unbeknownst to thee, thou art over-fond of archaic terms. Prithee, wouldst thou kindly desist? Libra (September 22 – October 22) Good day to start saving up for that electron microscope you’ve always wanted. I hear Sears will be having a big sale on them this fall. Scorpio (October 23 – November 21) You will begin an evil project, in secret. You will be successful. Although why you want to produce a cross between a St. Bernard and a chihuahua is anybody’s guess. Sagittarius (November 22 – December 21) A very short and hairy person will bother you today. Unfortunately, you will be unable to ignore them, try though you might. Capricorn (December 22 – January 20) Excellent time to hum popular songs, just slightly off key. If you do that long enough, the people around you will change in appearance. You’ll be able to see the veins in their neck, for one thing. Aquarius (January 21 – February 18) Today you will see a free floating full torso vaporous apparition! It’ll turn out that your glasses are smudged. Pisces (February 19 – March 20) You will be conducting naval maneuvers in the bathtub today, when you will have an unfortunate accident involving your toy submarine. The visit to the emergency room will be most embarrasing. — RB what is fear but voices airy whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary – till the fatal bolt is shot

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – how about another horoscope? judith

Response:

Question:

Joe, Why not right here on alt.accounting?? Jim Hudspeth, CPA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a commercial banker for twenty five years and would like to have a discussion as to what bankers want to see in financial statements.  Email me at Joe

Response:

I am a commercial banker for twenty five years and would like to have a discussion as to what bankers want to see in financial statements.  Email me at Joe

Response:

Question:

I’m looking at getting into a joint ownership situation (just a small weekend flyer type – C-140 or so, no business trips, IFR, etc.) and was wondering from the group what is typically done in the real world.  I know the benefits of incorporating or forming an LLC (limited liability company – i.e., a corporate form that is treated as a partnership for federal & state tax purposes.)  I like the limited liability idea, but all the recordkeeping (federal & state tax filings, property tax returns, etc.) associated with these forms are a pain in the ass.  Besides, when it comes time to sell the airplane, then you’ve got taxes associated with capital gains, dissolution of the corporation, etc. & I’d just as soon tell the feds to keep their nose out of it.  Would it be a bad idea just to form a loose partnership (but ALL written out in an agreement before hand to address all the sticky issues) and just make sure the plane is well insured to cover everyone involved? What does everyone out there do? Thanks in advance. Doug B.

Response:

We chose to go the S-corp route.  I think if I had it to do again, I’d probably do an LLC.  I don’t know if the corporate shell will protect us in event of a high liability accident, but we hope so, or we would not be doing this. You need to keep good financial records in a parntership, whether a company or not, so that overhead is not new.  The only real overhead that is new is the taxes.  After doing it a few times, and using a good accounting program for daily financials (such as Quickbooks), I find the taxes are only a few hours work once a year.  I don’t mind it if it will give me some protection. Just my $0.02. Joel Larner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking at getting into a joint ownership situation (just a small weekend flyer type – C-140 or so, no business trips, IFR, etc.) and was wondering from the group what is typically done in the real world.  I know the benefits of incorporating or forming an LLC (limited liability company – i.e., a corporate form that is treated as a partnership for federal & state tax purposes.)  I like the limited liability idea, but all the recordkeeping (federal & state tax filings, property tax returns, etc.) associated with these forms are a pain in the ass.  Besides, when it comes time to sell the airplane, then you’ve got taxes associated with capital gains, dissolution of the corporation, etc. & I’d just as soon tell the feds to keep their nose out of it.  Would it be a bad idea just to form a loose partnership (but ALL written out in an agreement before hand to address all the sticky issues) and just make sure the plane is well insured to cover everyone involved? What does everyone out there do? Thanks in advance. Doug B.

Response:

Question:

Ho – You need a software package that will accept a deposit on the customers account and then bill ( automatically or recurring) and apply the deposit to the invoice until the deposit is gone.  BusinessWorks from SAGE is just that product.  Go to sota.com and download a TEST DRIVE. DeeDee Heyne D.B.H. ENTERPRISES – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for your suggestion, It was exactly what I did before. But as I’ve described, our service is subscription, we had many customers. Spend time in the detail of each customers transaction monthly may take lot of time. I prefer to find one dynamic solution that the software itself can monthly do as auto-post transaction. Then all I need is only create the rule/percentage one time per year/period. What do you think? Thank a lot. VietHa. What should I do? What you have is a prepaid subscription revenue problem. Assuming your customers do pay that one year amount up front (great for cash flow, so I agree with your boss you *don’t* want monthly invoices) you need a liability account for "unearned revenue" that you will initially create by debiting revenue and crediting the liability.  That account would consist, at any point in time, of the portion of the client’s fee for the unexpired part of the year.  Thus, at the end of one month if a client had paid $120 for a full year, you have $110 left in unearned revenue and $10 would be charged to revenue.  The next month you charge off another $10 and so on until we exhaust that year’s fee. — Ed Zollars, CPA (AZ) http://www.getnet.com/~hmtzcpas

  dbhent.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Thank you for your suggestion, It was exactly what I did before. But as I’ve described, our service is subscription, we had many customers. Spend time in the detail of each customers transaction monthly may take lot of time. I prefer to find one dynamic solution that the software itself can monthly do as auto-post transaction. Then all I need is only create the rule/percentage one time per year/period. What do you think?

I think you can’t get there from here without software written specifically to handle subscriptions–which Quickbooks, being very generic and not terribly expandable by design, is not equipped to handle. Now, if you are willing to live with a bit of "rough and ready" solution, there are options short of analyzing the customer base each month *if* all subscriptions are annual. That would be to treat each month’s "bills" as a block and track only that block–so your analysis would only deal with 12 blocks of transactions at any point in time, rather than analyzing each subscriber. Second, it seems to me that you *must* have some method in place of knowing how far along each subscriber is on their subscription (if you don’t, we all might want to sign up now <grin).  How difficult would it be for that system (whether manual or computer) to calculate the "unearned revenue" that exists at each balance sheet date?  After all, the key issue is how much of the revenue billed so far remains unearned. Yes, it may require some manual (or at least spreadsheet assisted) intervention–but I really don’t see that this should be a major problem if you are currently able to figure out when the next bills should go out to the various clients. — Ed Zollars, CPA (AZ) http://www.getnet.com/~hmtzcpas

Response:

Subscription revenue is a special problem that few accounting programs can handle automatically.  There are some programs designed specifically for this kind of income, but I’m sure they’ll cost more than QuickBooks. What you can do with QuickBooks is – At the time of invoicing a customer, enter a journal entry for the first month’s amortization of that customer’s income, as described by Edward Zollars, making certain that it is dated correctly.  Memorize this entry, selecting the "Automatically Enter" box and the appropriate frequency (monthly) and number of entries and date of next entry. There are 2 variations on this. 1. Memorized transactions with the same date, frequency, and number of recurrences, can be grouped for efficiency.  After creating the transactions, create a new Group and then select the transactions to be included. 2. Rather than an entry for each customer, you could create a single entry representing the total of all sales for that month. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for your suggestion, It was exactly what I did before. But as I’ve described, our service is subscription, we had many customers. Spend time in the detail of each customers transaction monthly may take lot of time. I prefer to find one dynamic solution that the software itself can monthly do as auto-post transaction. Then all I need is only create the rule/percentage one time per year/period. What do you think? Thank a lot. VietHa. What should I do? What you have is a prepaid subscription revenue problem. Assuming your customers do pay that one year amount up front (great for cash flow, so I agree with your boss you *don’t* want monthly invoices) you need a liability account for "unearned revenue" that you will initially create by debiting revenue and crediting the liability.  That account would consist, at any point in time, of the portion of the client’s fee for the unexpired part of the year.  Thus, at the end of one month if a client had paid $120 for a full year, you have $110 left in unearned revenue and $10 would be charged to revenue.  The next month you charge off another $10 and so on until we exhaust that year’s fee. — Ed Zollars, CPA (AZ) http://www.getnet.com/~hmtzcpas

Response:

Thank you for your suggestion, It was exactly what I did before. But as I’ve described, our service is subscription, we had many customers. Spend time in the detail of each customers transaction monthly may take lot of time. I prefer to find one dynamic solution that the software itself can monthly do as auto-post transaction. Then all I need is only create the rule/percentage one time per year/period. What do you think? Thank a lot. VietHa.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What should I do? What you have is a prepaid subscription revenue problem. Assuming your customers do pay that one year amount up front (great for cash flow, so I agree with your boss you *don’t* want monthly invoices) you need a liability account for "unearned revenue" that you will initially create by debiting revenue and crediting the liability.  That account would consist, at any point in time, of the portion of the client’s fee for the unexpired part of the year.  Thus, at the end of one month if a client had paid $120 for a full year, you have $110 left in unearned revenue and $10 would be charged to revenue.  The next month you charge off another $10 and so on until we exhaust that year’s fee. — Ed Zollars, CPA (AZ) http://www.getnet.com/~hmtzcpas

Response:

described, our service is subscription, we had many customers. Spend time in the detail of each customers transaction monthly may take lot of time. I prefer to find one dynamic solution that the software itself can monthly

Are all of your subscriptions at about the same rate? If so, could you just count up the number of active subscriptions, and multiply the result by your monthly rate? If you post that figure to your revenue and liability accounts at the end of the period, you won’t need to touch the A/R sub ledger at all. Do as Ed said to set it up first, though. — Brad Crockett Duncan BC Canada

Response:

What should I do?

What you have is a prepaid subscription revenue problem. Assuming your customers do pay that one year amount up front (great for cash flow, so I agree with your boss you *don’t* want monthly invoices) you need a liability account for "unearned revenue" that you will initially create by debiting revenue and crediting the liability.  That account would consist, at any point in time, of the portion of the client’s fee for the unexpired part of the year.  Thus, at the end of one month if a client had paid $120 for a full year, you have $110 left in unearned revenue and $10 would be charged to revenue.  The next month you charge off another $10 and so on until we exhaust that year’s fee. — Ed Zollars, CPA (AZ) http://www.getnet.com/~hmtzcpas

Response:

Hi, Anybody could give me a hand by solving this problem with Quickbook. My company runs the hosting service. The situation is that when I create one invoice (exp. Hosting service in 1 year) from beginning of the year and collected money full amount one time base on invoice description. Automatically, Quick Book will record as Db: Receivable from customers Cr: Turnover And when I received the payment, I record as: Db. Cash Cr. Receivable from customers It’s mean that at the beginning of the year, we have recorded income of full year that we didn’t provided. My boss requirement is classify it as turnover month by month. But not allow issuing monthly invoice to customers (He wants issue only 1 invoice for hole the period, it may bring the convenient to customers) What should I do? Any solution would be highly appreciated. VietHa

Response:

Question:

"Such an image has no obvious relevance to the  idea of eternal punishment." It does when the punishment is spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God.   That separation burns like a fire for the eternity in which it lasts. "…but it could also mean that it has been prepared forever for this moment…" Eternal means eternal.   It could imply that it also existed forever in the past.  But it definitely indicates that it’ll exist forever into the future. "…not punished, or tormented, or burned;  just left out." Ever been socially ostracized ?  There’s pain there. Separation from God for eternity is WORSE ! "It merely reflects the fate of debtors in Jesus’s time." Jesus was giving advice not to acquire debts you couldn’t pay ?   C’mon !   It’s an analogy.   And in the context it clearly speaks to the afterlife.   Let him who has eyes, read ! "I make that at most six short passages in the whole  of the four gospels.  Depends on what you mean by  ’significant’." Men have been justly convicted in court on far less ! If you don’t get it on six times, two-hundred won’t do the trick. The DataRat

Response:

"Such an image has no obvious relevance to the idea of eternal punishment." It does when the punishment is spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from God.   That separation burns like a fire for the eternity in which it lasts.

But, again, I am not convinced there is compelling scriptural warrant for the idea of eternal separation of the kind you describe – or of ‘Spiritual death’ as distinct from utter destruction (for which I am sure there is warrant) "…but it could also mean that it has been prepared forever for this moment…" Eternal means eternal.   It could imply that it also existed forever in the past.  But it definitely indicates that it’ll exist forever into the future.

But does not necessarily mean that those exposed to it will. Also, in the context of ‘eternity’ I’m not sure how useful the concept of ‘future’ is. "…not punished, or tormented, or burned; just left out." Ever been socially ostracized ?  There’s pain there. Separation from God for eternity is WORSE !

Agreed!, but see comment above "It merely reflects the fate of debtors in Jesus’s time." Jesus was giving advice not to acquire debts you couldn’t pay ?   C’mon !   It’s an analogy.   And in the context it clearly speaks to the afterlife.   Let him who has eyes, read !

Certainly, it’s an analogy; and the trouble with analogies is that you cannot press them to mean more than they are intended to convey. The context here refers to the need for Christians to display forgiveness toward others (nothing to do, necessarily, with monetary debt) because they have themselves been forgiven much more. To adduce a picture of the afterlife from this is, I believe, mistaken. (Yes, I know I said ‘I believe’ there. Like all matters of interpretaion there is an element of judgement here). "I make that at most six short passages in the whole of the four gospels.  Depends on what you mean by ’significant’." Men have been justly convicted in court on far less ! If you don’t get it on six times, two-hundred won’t do the trick.

Again, you are right. The problem is, you can reduce that to "If you don’t get it on one time, two-hundred won’t do the trick." The dangers of building a theology on one (or even six) references are substantial. To be honest I was reponding to a bit in an earlier post where you suggested that Christ spoke a great deal about punishment." God Bless Andrew

Response:

 If you are reading and studying an English version of the Bible that is not the original 1611 King James version, you may be reading and studying God’s Word as edited by Satan!

My NIV Bible clearly footnotes the verse in question (1 John 5:7) and references the additional King James verbage .  The additional verbage included in verse 7 of KJV  doesn’t appear in any of the original Greek translations dated prior to the SIXTEENTH CENTURY!    So which translation is more accurate? Also, If Satan edited my Bible and wanted this verse out, why did he leave the footnote in? Doug

Response:

Got him there !  Touch

Question:

In response to "Leo" who posted a message indicating that he was considering pursuing either a U.S. CPA or a Canadian CGA designation, Jeffrey Weigensberg, a Canadian CA wrote "If you desire self respect, the respect of other accounting professionals and clients, and a superior salary, you will avoid the CGA designation like the plague." He then went on to say that CGAs are not, unlike CAs and CMAs, "taught to think".  He ended by encouraging "Leo" to pursue the CPA designation and then the CA designation. As Mr. Weigensberg has broadcast his prejudiced and ill-founded personal views on the CGA designation to professional accountants worldwide through this news group,  I will respond factually to his posting and let those facts speak for themselves.  I will not become engaged in an otherwise purposeless discussion battle (post/re-post) with Mr. Weigensberg over his views, but am merely seeking to set the record straight for the benefit of other subscribers who might otherwise be poisoned by his venomous jingoism. The CGA Association of Canada has nearly 60,000 certificated members and students.  Our education program syllabus and membership entrance standards are second to none.  In addition to our Canadian base, CGA Associations exist in the nations of the Caribbean (including Bermuda and Bahamas), Hong Kong and China.  We are a member body of every major accounting organization in the world including IFAC, IAA, and CAPA, and our members serve on every major committee thereof.  By agreement with Canada’s other two accounting organizations (CAs and CMAs) some of these positions are on a rotational basis.  CGA firms are auditors for companies whose shares are listed and publicly traded on the Vancouver, Alberta and Toronto Stock Exchanges as well as NASDAQ in the United States.  CGAs hold various senior positions in government, industry and academia including for example, the past president of the Bank of Montreal, the assistant auditor general of Canada, a federal cabinet minister and the COO of the Financial Executive’s Institute.  Lastly, I would note that when the Assembly of First Nations (Canada’s aboriginal people’s association) sought assistance with their financial reporting/standards for themselves and their member organizations, they, with the support of the Department of Indian Affairs, engaged us as their advisors. None of this would be possible if CGAs did not have the respect of their clients, employers, government, educators, the general public, and other professionals, as well as a high level of self-respect. Lastly, I must admit to being intrigued by Mr. Weigensberg’s advice to "Leo" to pursue his CPA and then his CA.  Although Leo lives in Alberta he should know that if he were to become resident in the province of Ontario, the Institute of Chartered Accountants here would serve him with a notice to cease and desist from using his CPA designation.  For an Ontario CA to recommend a designation that is not permitted to be used in Ontario seems like poor advice. Leo

Question:

All the reports I’ve seen, including direct quotes from Condit and Stonecipher, indicate that the merger was hammered out in 4 days ending Sunday.  

New reports that I have read indicate that these negotiations have been going on for about 4 years.

Response:

All the reports I’ve seen, including direct quotes from Condit and Stonecipher, indicate that the merger was hammered out in 4 days ending Sunday.  This was 2 weeks after the AA announcement.

Do you really think that Boeing’s president met McD’s president "by accident" at a bar, discussed a possible merger over a couple of drinks and ended up deciding it would work ? I suspect that Boeing had its eyes on McD for a LONG time prior to this 4 day negotiations round and that Boeing accounting creatures had been busy evaluating the feasability of such a venture prior to those 4 days. Hence, Boeing’s president would have known about the possible merger plan well before AA signed on the dotted line. As a matter of fact, Boeing may have made sure AA was on-board with Boeing to further demoralize McD and make it easier for Boeing to gobble McD. — Internet Message Header Follows — Path: news.telcel.net.ve!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer… Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Organization: SPC Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp027.135.mmtl.videotron.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC)

Response:

Considering the timing of the AA announcement vs the Boing buyout of McD, I would tend to think that the president of AA was aware that Boeing had its eyes on McD at the time the AA decision was made. All the reports I’ve seen, including direct quotes from Condit and Stonecipher, indicate that the merger was hammered out in 4 days ending Sunday.

I doubt a merger of this size could be hammered out in 4 days…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All the reports I’ve seen, including direct quotes from Condit and Stonecipher, indicate that the merger was hammered out in 4 days ending Sunday.  This was 2 weeks after the AA announcement. Do you really think that Boeing’s president met McD’s president "by accident" at a bar, discussed a possible merger over a couple of drinks and ended up deciding it would work ? I suspect that Boeing had its eyes on McD for a LONG time prior to this 4 day negotiations round and that Boeing accounting creatures had been busy evaluating the feasability of such a venture prior to those 4 days. Hence, Boeing’s president would have known about the possible merger plan well before AA signed on the dotted line. As a matter of fact, Boeing may have made sure AA was on-board with Boeing to further demoralize McD and make it easier for Boeing to gobble McD.

Not that any of our opinions here matter, but Condit and Stonecipher are old friends, since Condit was involved in the development of the 757 and Stonecipher was with GE trying to peddle engines for it.  They have disccussed this possibility before.  Don’t forget that McD has just agreed to subcontract work on Boeing jets to utilize its excess capacity.  I tend to think that this is the natural outgrowth of various discussions, which may have culminated over a couple of drinks. Jeff

Response:

All the reports I’ve seen, including direct quotes from Condit and Stonecipher, indicate that the merger was hammered out in 4 days ending Sunday.  This was 2 weeks after the AA announcement.

Do you really think that Boeing’s president met McD’s president "by accident" at a bar, discussed a possible merger over a couple of drinks and ended up deciding it would work ? I suspect that Boeing had its eyes on McD for a LONG time prior to this 4 day negotiations round and that Boeing accounting creatures had been busy evaluating the feasability of such a venture prior to those 4 days. Hence, Boeing’s president would have known about the possible merger plan well before AA signed on the dotted line. As a matter of fact, Boeing may have made sure AA was on-board with Boeing to further demoralize McD and make it easier for Boeing to gobble McD.

Response:

Considering the timing of the AA announcement vs the Boing buyout of McD, I would tend to think that the president of AA was aware that Boeing had its eyes on McD at the time the AA decision was made. All the reports I’ve seen, including direct quotes from Condit and Stonecipher, indicate that the merger was hammered out in 4 days ending Sunday.  This was 2 weeks after the AA announcement.  So there’s no way Crandall could have known about it. The causality is probably in the other direction.  For McDonnell Douglas, it might have been the final nail in the coffin that convinced them they really couldn’t go it alone any more.

I doubt AA/Crandall knew about the merger when making the Boeing order. I tend to agree with Stefano that the AA order might have been the final nail in the coffin.  Rumors of AA’s Boeing order first came out when MDC cancelled the MD-XX plan which AA was one of the prime launch customers (along with Swissair). BTW, it is rumored that Swissair will order the A330-200 to replace the A310.

Response:

Considering the timing of the AA announcement vs the Boing buyout of McD, I would tend to think that the president of AA was aware that Boeing had its eyes on McD at the time the AA decision was made.

All the reports I’ve seen, including direct quotes from Condit and Stonecipher, indicate that the merger was hammered out in 4 days ending Sunday.  This was 2 weeks after the AA announcement.  So there’s no way Crandall could have known about it. The causality is probably in the other direction.  For McDonnell Douglas, it might have been the final nail in the coffin that convinced them they really couldn’t go it alone any more. — Stefano Pagiola 850 N Randolph Str No.817, Arlington VA 22203, USA All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer

Response:

 Kind of makes that AA announcement to go sole-ly Boeing a moot point, huh? Considering the timing of the AA announcement vs the Boing buyout of McD, I would tend to think that the president of AA was aware that Boeing had its eyes on McD at the time the AA decision was made. He may not have been able to tell his grunts about the possibility of Boeing buying McD, so he may have just told them "Trust me, we have to go Boeing". Boeing must have had hoards of accountants working on this merger well before negotiations with McD even began and definitely well before any public announcement was made. — Internet Message Header Follows — Path: news.telcel.net.ve!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!node2.frontier… Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Organization: SPC Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp236.223.mmtl.videotron.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) — Internet Message Header Follows — Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Distribution: world Organization: TogetherNet Lines: 32 Path: news.telcel.net.ve!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!n… — Internet Message Header Follows — Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Distribution: world Organization: TogetherNet Lines: 45 Path: news.telcel.net.ve!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprint…

Response:

 Kind of makes that AA announcement to go sole-ly Boeing a moot point, huh? Considering the timing of the AA announcement vs the Boing buyout of McD, I would tend to think that the president of AA was aware that Boeing had its eyes on McD at the time the AA decision was made. He may not have been able to tell his grunts about the possibility of Boeing buying McD, so he may have just told them "Trust me, we have to go Boeing". Boeing must have had hoards of accountants working on this merger well before negotiations with McD even began and definitely well before any public announcement was made. — Internet Message Header Follows — Path: news.telcel.net.ve!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!node2.frontier… Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Organization: SPC Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp236.223.mmtl.videotron.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) — Internet Message Header Follows — Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Distribution: world Organization: TogetherNet Lines: 32 Path: news.telcel.net.ve!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!n…

Response:

I just read a brief report that Boeing and McDonnel Douglas might be merging within the next 6 months (pending Federal Trade Commission ruling), which would leave Boeing and Airbus as the only two major manafacturers of large commercial aircraft. Does anyone have any detailed information on this, and how it might affect the aircraft market?  The information I have is somewhat vague, but appears to be true.

Yes, it is true.  According to the Seattle Times, the name of the new company will be "Boeing."  The McDonnell/Douglas name apparently will be retained in some of the new company’s divisions.  It is expected that the finalization of the acquisition will take up to six months. C. Marin Faure    author, Flying a Floatplane

Response:

 Kind of makes that AA announcement to go sole-ly Boeing a moot point, huh? Considering the timing of the AA announcement vs the Boing buyout of McD, I would tend to think that the president of AA was aware that Boeing had its eyes on McD at the time the AA decision was made. He may not have been able to tell his grunts about the possibility of Boeing buying McD, so he may have just told them "Trust me, we have to go Boeing". Boeing must have had hoards of accountants working on this merger well before negotiations with McD even began and definitely well before any public announcement was made.

Response:

 Kind of makes that AA announcement to go sole-ly Boeing a moot point, huh? Considering the timing of the AA announcement vs the Boing buyout of McD, I would tend to think that the president of AA was aware that Boeing had its eyes on McD at the time the AA decision was made. He may not have been able to tell his grunts about the possibility of Boeing buying McD, so he may have just told them "Trust me, we have to go Boeing". Boeing must have had hoards of accountants working on this merger well before negotiations with McD even began and definitely well before any public announcement was made. — Internet Message Header Follows — Path: news.telcel.net.ve!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!node2.frontier… Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Organization: SPC Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp236.223.mmtl.videotron.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC)

Response:

The LA Times speculates that they will keep the Douglass commercial products…Of course, if ValuJet dies (and its huge order), then the MD-95 would lose the incentive to be built. Kind of makes that AA announcement to go sole-ly Boeing a moot point, huh?

Response:

I just read a brief report that Boeing and McDonnel Douglas might be merging within the next 6 months (pending Federal Trade Commission ruling), which would leave Boeing and Airbus as the only two major manafacturers of large commercial aircraft. Does anyone have any detailed information on this, and how it might affect the aircraft market?  The information I have is somewhat vague, but appears to be true. Regards, Steve

Response: