becoming an accountant | Accounting Services

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Cost of Goods Sold = COGS When my customers buy something from me there is a sale. For Accrual Based Accounting as per GAAP please help answer the following: Is the Purchase Order received issue date the sale/revenue date? No. Under accrual basis, there is no sale until title to the goods passes to the customer according to the FOB terms. Is the Invoice Date (Day of shipment or services rendered) the sale/revenue date? No. See above. Is the date that the cash is paid to vendor the sale/revenue date? No, not under accrual basis. versus when I buy something from a vendor as below: Is the date I issue a PO and fax it to my client the date of COGS date ? Is the date I receive an invoice / proforma invoice the date of COGS date ? Is the date I pay the bill by cash or cheque the date of COGS date ? Help me. Joe Bruno Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war) Ancient Roman Motto Visit my web page for pictures, music, and accounting services http://www.msnusers.com/Joepictures2008/shoebox.msnw

This is very useful! Thanks!

Response:

Hi, Cost of Goods Sold = COGS When my customers buy something from me there is a sale. For Accrual Based Accounting as per GAAP please help answer the following: Is the Purchase Order received issue date the sale/revenue date?

No. Under accrual basis, there is no sale until title to the goods passes to the customer according to the FOB terms. Is the Invoice Date (Day of shipment or services rendered) the sale/revenue date?

No. See above. Is the date that the cash is paid to vendor the sale/revenue date?

No, not under accrual basis. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -versus when I buy something from a vendor as below: Is the date I issue a PO and fax it to my client the date of COGS date ? Is the date I receive an invoice / proforma invoice the date of COGS date ? Is the date I pay the bill by cash or cheque the date of COGS date ? Help me.

Joe Bruno Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war) Ancient Roman Motto Visit my web page for pictures, music, and accounting services http://www.msnusers.com/Joepictures2008/shoebox.msnw

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Cost of Goods Sold = COGS When my customers buy something from me there is a sale. For Accrual Based Accounting as per GAAP please help answer the following: Is the Purchase Order received issue date the sale/revenue date? Is the Invoice Date (Day of shipment or services rendered) the sale/revenue date? Is the date that the cash is paid to vendor the sale/revenue date? versus when I buy something from a vendor as below: Is the date I issue a PO and fax it to my client the date of COGS date ? Is the date I receive an invoice / proforma invoice the date of COGS date ? Is the date I pay the bill by cash or cheque the date of COGS date ? Help me.

All of this you are talking about may depend on when title to the goods passes to the purchaser. For that, you need to determine were the goods shipped FOB shipping point or FOB destination? If FOB shipping point, title passes when the goods are loaded on a carrier to be delivered to the purchaser. If FOB destination, title passes when the goods arrives at the site of the purchaser. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

First, it is "accrual". Second, if using accrual based accounting, you record your sale the date the goods or services are rendered or delivered, NOT the date of the Purchase Order, or the date you receive the Purchase Order and, it is NOT the date you receive payment. Third, you record your expense on the date YOU receive the goods or the services are rendered. You do NOT record the expense on the date of your Purchase Order, or the date you pay for the goods or services. Stephanie

In accounting, we match revenues with expenses. When I advise my clients and/or develop an information management "accountability" system, I take this approach: Merchandise purchases go into Inventory and stay there until the merchandise is sold. Upon the sale of merchandise, the sale is recorded as revenue and the applicable cost is removed from inventory and recorded as cost of goods sold (in a good system this happens simultaneously and probable using the Invoice Number as a common reference number). Wayne raised a valid point about the FOB concept; however, in a practically nobody defers the sale until the expected arrival date (in a case where the merchandise sold is shipped FOB destination). Rather, the question of "passing title" usually comes into play only when there is a freight damage/loss. Similarly when the Sale is based on "services rendered", especially when the services span more than the current month, the time spent is captured at cost as "Work In Progress Inventory" and moved to Cost of Sales equivalent when the services are invoiced.Of course, there are variations possible in particular situations e.g. some revenues are subject to progress billing. However, the bottom line is this: Expenses are items that have been consumed in the process of making sales or attempting to make sales. Inventory, whether merchandise (including overhead allocation, etc. in a manufacturing environment) or human resources that have the potential for sale or are are part of a sale-in-progress, is a current asset until sold or written off for whatever reason e.g. spoilage, shrinkage, etc. Wolfgang Rochow, CGA www.gestalt.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Cost of Goods Sold = COGS When my customers buy something from me there is a sale. For Accrual Based Accounting as per GAAP please help answer the following: Is the Purchase Order received issue date the sale/revenue date? Is the Invoice Date (Day of shipment or services rendered) the sale/revenue date? Is the date that the cash is paid to vendor the sale/revenue date? versus when I buy something from a vendor as below: Is the date I issue a PO and fax it to my client the date of COGS date ? Is the date I receive an invoice / proforma invoice the date of COGS date ? Is the date I pay the bill by cash or cheque the date of COGS date ? Help me.

Response:

First, it is "accrual". Second, if using accrual based accounting, you record your sale the date the goods or services are rendered or delivered, NOT the date of the Purchase Order, or the date you receive the Purchase Order and, it is NOT the date you receive payment. Third, you record your expense on the date YOU receive the goods or the services are rendered. You do NOT record the expense on the date of your Purchase Order, or the date you pay for the goods or services. Stephanie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Cost of Goods Sold = COGS When my customers buy something from me there is a sale. For Accrual Based Accounting as per GAAP please help answer the following: Is the Purchase Order received issue date the sale/revenue date? Is the Invoice Date (Day of shipment or services rendered) the sale/revenue date? Is the date that the cash is paid to vendor the sale/revenue date? versus when I buy something from a vendor as below: Is the date I issue a PO and fax it to my client the date of COGS date ? Is the date I receive an invoice / proforma invoice the date of COGS date ? Is the date I pay the bill by cash or cheque the date of COGS date ? Help me.

Response:

Hi, Cost of Goods Sold = COGS When my customers buy something from me there is a sale. For Accrual Based Accounting as per GAAP please help answer the following: Is the Purchase Order received issue date the sale/revenue date? Is the Invoice Date (Day of shipment or services rendered) the sale/revenue date? Is the date that the cash is paid to vendor the sale/revenue date? versus when I buy something from a vendor as below: Is the date I issue a PO and fax it to my client the date of COGS date ? Is the date I receive an invoice / proforma invoice the date of COGS date ? Is the date I pay the bill by cash or cheque the date of COGS date ? Help me.

Response:

Question:

Has anyone on this group had experience with both, and if so, could they describe some of the differences between auditing for a non-profit organization and auditing for a for-profit organization? I know that the ultimate goals of a non-profit (i.e. to provide service) obviously differ from those of a for-profit (astonishingly enough, to produce a profit), but how does this play out in conducting an audit?

John, As the saying goes, an audit is an audit is an audit, meaning many of the audit procedures will be essentially the same whether its a for-profit or nonprofit audit. With a nonprofit audit however, the organization will have many restrictions on how it can spend its resources. Much of the entity’s revenue may come from federal and state grants or private donations for a specific purpose. These revenues must be kept up with and stored in three separate classifications of "net assets" (permanently restricted, temporarily restricted, and unrestricted). Tracking these three types of net assets and ensuring that they are used properly is probably the biggest difference from a for-profit audit. In addition, if the organization receives over $500,000 in federal grants (up this year from $300,000) then a "Single Audit" must be performed as well on the federal programs. Hope this helps. If you have trouble sleeping at night, you may want to order a copy of the AICPA Audit and Accounting Guide for Not-for-Profit Organizations, or read FASB 116 and 117 to learn more about nonprofits. Preston Singleton, CPA Austin, Texas

Response:

While auditing is auditing, with a nonprofit organization GAAP differs as some FAS’s that apply to for profit entities do not apply to nonprofits. The 2 main FAS’s for nonprofits are FAS 116 and 117. Obviously you can’t perform a proper audit unless you understand the rules that apply to that organization. I have been in public accounting for over 16 years and have audited both organizations. From experience the area that causes problems is not knowing where GAAP differs. As an example investments are generally carried at fair value for nonprofit organizations. Get the AICPA guide to audits of nonprofits for help or PPC’s Audits of Nonprofits, as the differences are too numerous to point out in e-mails. Hope this helps some, Stephen Lewis, CPA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone on this group had experience with both, and if so, could they describe some of the differences between auditing for a non-profit organization and auditing for a for-profit organization? I know that the ultimate goals of a non-profit (i.e. to provide service) obviously differ from those of a for-profit (astonishingly enough, to produce a profit), but how does this play out in conducting an audit?

Response:

Has anyone on this group had experience with both, and if so, could they describe some of the differences between auditing for a non-profit organization and auditing for a for-profit organization? I know that the ultimate goals of a non-profit (i.e. to provide service) obviously differ from those of a for-profit (astonishingly enough, to produce a profit), but how does this play out in conducting an audit?

Response:

Has anyone on this group had experience with both, and if so, could they describe some of the differences between auditing for a non-profit organization and auditing for a for-profit organization? I know that the ultimate goals of a non-profit (i.e. to provide service) obviously differ from those of a for-profit (astonishingly enough, to produce a profit), but how does this play out in conducting an audit?

I believe the overall goal for both situations would be the same since the purpose of a financial audit is to make sure the company being audited has been in compliance with generally accepted accounting principles. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

Question:

Well, I hope the bookkeeping is clearer than the post. Roger — Lennox Lewis on http://www.findit.co.uk/uk/pictures.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <meta http-equiv name=’Keywords’ content=’accountants in new haven, accountants in hartford, accountants in hamden, accountants in new england, bookkeeping services in new haven, accounting services in new haven, accounts training in new haven, accounts training in new england, quick books training in new england, quick books training in new haven, hamden accountants, new haven accountants, new haven bookkeeping companies, bookkeeping services, peachtree accounting, accounting help in new haven, accounting help in new england, accounting books, bookkeeping books, taxation books, new england accountants’ <meta http-equiv name=’Description’ content=’Bookkeepingpro.com is the most efficient bookkeeping & tax preparation firm in new england region.’

<!– End of Row — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – </table </td</tr </table </TD</TR</TABLE </table </td </tr </table <table align="center" bgcolor="#ffcc66" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" <tr bgcolor="#ffcc66"<td bgcolor="#ffcc66" <hr noshade </td </tr <tr bgcolor="#ffcc66" <td align="center" bgcolor="#ffcc66" <font face="Verdana" size="-2" ©2000 – BookKeepingPro.com, All Rights Reserved. </font </td

and so on.

Response:

Response:

Does anyone know if there is a freeware program of a simple double entry bookkeeping system?

Response:

Try this link: http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/swlib/hotfiles/search.html Some of these programs are shareware, some are free.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know if there is a freeware program of a simple double entry bookkeeping system?

Response:

but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have = heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to = know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients.

Here’s a vote for Quick Books! I think that it is the best accounting software there is! Rose’s Web Page Designs http://members.aol.com/Roseb44170/designs.htm

Response:

Go Quick Book Pro if you can. more stuff for the future

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have = heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to = know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients. Here’s a vote for Quick Books! I think that it is the best accounting software there is! Rose’s Web Page Designs http://members.aol.com/Roseb44170/designs.htm

Response:

I went out and bought Quickbooks and although it is not meant for personal finances, I started running my personal finances through it, just like a business would.

This is what i want to do!! Just for same purpose you did… i.e. learn a bit abt it. However…. Im curious…..anyway to run Quickbooks under Linux?

Response:

I went out and bought Quickbooks and although it is not meant for personal finances, I started running my personal finances through it, just like a business would. This is what i want to do!! Just for same purpose you did… i.e. learn a bit abt it. However…. Im curious…..anyway to run Quickbooks under Linux?

I do not know the answer to your question about Quickbooks. I use MoneyDance which is available from moneydance.com in both Windows and Linux versions.

Response:

I use MoneyDance which is available from moneydance.com in both Windows and Linux versions.

That might be an even better solution…i,e, get an app available for BOTh operating systems! Thanks!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day Jan Yes, I’m Aussie listen to Preston he gave you good advice BUT there are other software book-keeping /accounting packages you can download for free (trials only).I am in the same situation maybe being a single parent re-entering the workforce after quite a few years I knew I had to learn something more & chose Technology & Finance. Unfotunately this newsgroup are soooo US orientated they have blinkers on compared to what other countries are producing ITwise .There is MYOB an Australian complete accounting system they have various systems with consideration for other countries accounting needs THEY have also just announced a merger with Solution 6 a world wide accounting system. SAP are a complete & total large business system created in Ireland apparently can cover all business needs, also I’ve heard of SUN no idea what the fuck that is & micropay. Sorry to burst your bubble but after 6 weeks of monitoring this site the arrogance of American Accoutants towards book-keepers & other countries capabilities astounds me they truly are the class clown

sorry mate !! no arrogance intended !! I doubt if many on this newsgroup have used "Sun System" SAP, etc. most of the low end packages here are also used for the US income tax pecularities and they would not apply to other countries – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In a few months I will be entering the working world again. I am pursuing my accounting degree and have 17 classes left. With that being said, I have no knowledge, classroom or otherwise, in any of the bookkeeping software used. I want to try and get a job as a bookkeeper, I do have an AA in accounting as it is. I am sure you can see my dilemma; though I have a good deal of classroom knowledge of accounting and inventories, I lack real world experience many prospective employers prefer. I would like to buy one of the bookkeeping software packages to become familiar with, but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients. TIA Janice You’ll probably be hired by someone with None of the Above. If you want to familiarize yourself with one of those, Peachtree is most like the software used by larger businesses, Quicken is least like it. Maybe you could volunteer to do some bookkeeping at a Not for Profit or religious organization. That would give you real experience.

Response:

G’day Jan Yes, I’m Aussie listen to Preston he gave you good advice BUT there are other software book-keeping /accounting packages you can download for free (trials only).I am in the same situation maybe being a single parent re-entering the workforce after quite a few years I knew I had to learn something more & chose Technology & Finance. Unfotunately this newsgroup are soooo US orientated they have blinkers on compared to what other countries are producing ITwise .There is MYOB an Australian complete accounting system they have various systems with consideration for other countries accounting needs THEY have also just announced a merger with Solution 6 a world wide accounting system. SAP are a complete & total large business system created in Ireland apparently can cover all business needs, also I’ve heard of SUN no idea what the fuck that is & micropay. Sorry to burst your bubble but after 6 weeks of monitoring this site the arrogance of American Accoutants towards book-keepers & other countries capabilities astounds me they truly are the class clown

In a few months I will be entering the working world again. I am pursuing

my accounting degree and have 17 classes left. With that being said, I have no knowledge, classroom or otherwise, in any of the bookkeeping software used. I want to try and get a job as a bookkeeper, I do have an AA in accounting as it is. I am sure you can see my dilemma; though I have a good deal of classroom knowledge of accounting and inventories, I lack real world experience many prospective employers prefer. I would like to buy one of the bookkeeping software packages to become familiar with, but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TIA Janice You’ll probably be hired by someone with None of the Above. If you want to familiarize yourself with one of those, Peachtree is most like the software used by larger businesses, Quicken is least like it. Maybe you could volunteer to do some bookkeeping at a Not for Profit or religious organization. That would give you real experience.

Response:

I agree. I would also gain some experience with Excel. Many companies supplement their accounting packages with spreadsheets in one way or another. Even if your eventual employer doesn’t use quickbooks or excel you will have shown an ability to learn and this will help you learn new systems as needed. Good luck! Marcus

Thanks, Mark. Luckily enough, I do have excel on my home computer, and am a little familiar with it. Janice

Response:

I would definitely recommend that you become familiar with Quickbooks. This is the most popular accounting software package for small business. If you go to work for a small company or become a bookeeper for a public accounting firm, a working knowledge of Quickbooks will help you hit the ground running.

I agree. I would also gain some experience with Excel. Many companies supplement their accounting packages with spreadsheets in one way or another. Even if your eventual employer doesn’t use quickbooks or excel you will have shown an ability to learn and this will help you learn new systems as needed. Good luck! Marcus

Response:

I would definitely recommend that you become familiar with Quickbooks. This is the most popular accounting software package for small business. If you go to work for a small company or become a bookeeper for a public accounting firm, a working knowledge of Quickbooks will help you hit the ground running. About six years ago I was feeling much like you are now. I went out and bought Quickbooks and although it is not meant for personal finances, I started running my personal finances through it, just like a business would. I entered what little assets I had, checking and savings accounts and a vehicle. As liabilities I entered loans and outstanding credit card balances. I key-punched in all of the monthly checks that I wrote and all of the activity off of my credit cards. Each month I reconciled my bank statements in Quickbooks and ran reports of my expenditures. Doing all this really gave me some great experience in Quickbooks. Quickbooks also comes with some fake companies that you can practice running different types of transactions through for an even broader range of experience. I don’t want to sound like a Quickbooks commercial because I am in no way affiliated with them, but I have now been in public accounting for about 5 years, and Quickbooks is what I see small business clients using the most. One reason it is so popular is because it is designed for use by people who are not accountants. This can actually be pretty dangerous, non-accountants writing checks, posting journal entries, and trying to do bank reconciliations. What I find myself often doing is fixing a mess that someone else created in Quickbooks. If you go to work in public accounting and have the ability to go to a client’s office and help them out of an accounting quagmire, then you will be very valuable to your employer. You did say that you wanted to be a bookeeper and that’s why I am assuming you will be working in a small business environment. If you said you were hoping to become a staff accountant, which would suggest a more corporate environment, then you would most likely be using a more upscale package which is not as easy to come by for an individual. To get experience with other higher end software maybe you could get a part-time position or an internship somewhere. Good luck! Preston Singleton, CPA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .. In a few months I will be entering the working world again. I am pursuing my accounting degree and have 17 classes left. With that being said, I have no knowledge, classroom or otherwise, in any of the bookkeeping software used. I want to try and get a job as a bookkeeper, I do have an AA in accounting as it is. I am sure you can see my dilemma; though I have a good deal of classroom knowledge of accounting and inventories, I lack real world experience many prospective employers prefer. I would like to buy one of the bookkeeping software packages to become familiar with, but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients. TIA Janice You’ll probably be hired by someone with None of the Above. If you want to familiarize yourself with one of those, Peachtree is most like the software used by larger businesses, Quicken is least like it. Maybe you could volunteer to do some bookkeeping at a Not for Profit or religious organization. That would give you real experience. I’ll agree you are better off with real experience than just playing around with accounting software but go ahead and download the free trial offers of quickbooks and peachtree. You can enter checks, pay bills, etc. and create a balance sheet / income statement for learning purposes and it doesn’t hurt to have this knowledge of low end accounting programs

Response:

.. In a few months I will be entering the working world again. I am pursuing

my accounting degree and have 17 classes left. With that being said, I have no knowledge, classroom or otherwise, in any of the bookkeeping software used. I want to try and get a job as a bookkeeper, I do have an AA in accounting as it is. I am sure you can see my dilemma; though I have a good deal of classroom knowledge of accounting and inventories, I lack real world experience many prospective employers prefer. I would like to buy one of the bookkeeping software packages to become familiar with, but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients. TIA Janice You’ll probably be hired by someone with None of the Above. If you want to familiarize yourself with one of those, Peachtree is most like the software used by larger businesses, Quicken is least like it. Maybe you could volunteer to do some bookkeeping at a Not for Profit or religious organization. That would give you real experience.

I’ll agree you are better off with real experience than just playing around with accounting software but go ahead and download the free trial offers of quickbooks and peachtree. You can enter checks, pay bills, etc. and create a balance sheet / income statement for learning purposes and it doesn’t hurt to have this knowledge of low end accounting programs

Response:

In a few months I will be entering the working world again. I am pursuing my accounting degree and have 17 classes left. With that being said, I have no knowledge, classroom or otherwise, in any of the bookkeeping software used. I want to try and get a job as a bookkeeper, I do have an AA in accounting as it is. I am sure you can see my dilemma; though I have a good deal of classroom knowledge of accounting and inventories, I lack real world experience many prospective employers prefer. I would like to buy one of the bookkeeping software packages to become familiar with, but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients. TIA Janice

Response:

In a few months I will be entering the working world again. I am pursuing my accounting degree and have 17 classes left. With that being said, I have no knowledge, classroom or otherwise, in any of the bookkeeping software used. I want to try and get a job as a bookkeeper, I do have an AA in accounting as it is. I am sure you can see my dilemma; though I have a good deal of classroom knowledge of accounting and inventories, I lack real world experience many prospective employers prefer. I would like to buy one of the bookkeeping software packages to become familiar with, but I am not sure which one I should pick. I have heard a lot about Quicken, Peachtree, and Quick Books, but I want to know from y’all which one is more widely used by your clients. TIA Janice

You’ll probably be hired by someone with None of the Above. If you want to familiarize yourself with one of those, Peachtree is most like the software used by larger businesses, Quicken is least like it. Maybe you could volunteer to do some bookkeeping at a Not for Profit or religious organization. That would give you real experience.

Response:

Question:

More simply … if you itemize anyway, and own only one residence, you can deduct the interest on the RV as though it were a second/vacation home. I converted a van to include porta potty, stove, and bed, and wrote off the interest quite legitimately. Doing the same thing now with my Winnie. Mike

Response:

If you can deduct it…see Meep and Mike F posts above…then you need to get the finance companies name, address and tax id to put on your return because the finance company will not issue a tax form 1098 to you or the IRS. This mortgage interest line on your return is compared to forms 1098 and they have to agree to avoid a nasty letter from the IRS computers. If all this is Greek to you then you can go to the IRS web site others have suggested and spend some time learning about it. Or you can pay someone like me who does taxes for a living. — Bill Brunell www.williambrunell.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does this work?

Response:

Quoted directly from IRS FAQ page: http://www.irs.gov/faqs/page/0,,id=15960,00.html "I bought a 5th wheel trailer for vacationing. Can I deduct the interest on the loan for this 5th wheel? Where would it be listed? You can deduct the interest paid on the loan you took out to purchase the trailer as acquisition indebtedness interest only if the loan is secured by the trailer and the trailer meets the requirements of a qualified home. A qualified home includes a house, condominium, cooperative, mobile home, boat or similar property that has sleeping, cooking and toilet facilities. You can only have one principal residence and one qualified second home. Regardless of whether the trailer qualifies as a home, interest on home equity indebtedness secured by another qualified home and used to acquire the trailer may also be deductible. The interest is deducted as mortgage interest on line 11 of Form 1040, Schedule A (PDF), Itemized Deductions." And provides this publication as a reference: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p936.pdf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does this work?

Response:

How does this work?

Response:

How does this work?

I would think it depends on where in the world you live – every country has different tax laws…..

Response:

You really should ask an accountant.. But, if you are talking about the interest paid on a loan for a "self contained RV", then it’s very possible. I write off the interest of my RV loan each year. It won’t work very well if you don’t already have enough write-offs to cover the normal and standard person tax exemption as it must be over that amount before it makes any difference.. Ben

How does this work?

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

Whats your favourite? MYOB and Quickbooks seem popular

Since I get the Blue screen of death in Quickbooks I perfer MYOB. To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Mine is the offset color printer I keep in the basement.

Gives a whole new meaning to the term, "putting on some pounds"….. …..at least for the British folks.

Response:

Since I get the Blue screen of death in Quickbooks I perfer MYOB.

ah there we go. a serious answer. thanks mark

Response:

Hello. Whats your favourite? MYOB and Quickbooks seem popular Are they UK compatible? I need VAT handling, money in, money out, product inventory, contact management (pref. emailing lists) Thanks for any recommendations mark

Response:

Mine is the offset color printer I keep in the basement. DGG "I ignored that last message as I am boycotting myself" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello. Whats your favourite? MYOB and Quickbooks seem popular Are they UK compatible? I need VAT handling, money in, money out, product inventory, contact management (pref. emailing lists) Thanks for any recommendations mark

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Bryan Did you put money into the corporation to get it started? No – I didn’t need to – it’s an Internet business, and the startup costs were out of pocket. I didn’t want to waste any time setting up until I knew it would work. It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income. Yes – that’s OK with me – I’m not trying to avoid taxes – yet Now if I need to draw money from the company, I just set up a dummy account and let the attorney figure out where and how it should be handled each quarter. And it usually means I owe taxes, FICA and other things on it. So if I need 5 grand, I’ll pull 6 instead and drop the 1 grand into a savings account to pay the income taxes when they come due each quarter. OK, thanks. A previous poster (John) suggested a "suspense" account. Bryan

Bryan, I’ll say this to you once. Based on their posts here, neither Deutschmann nor John know enough about tax law or your situation to give you useful advice. Based on your earlier posts, you aren’t interested in following this advice but here it is again anyway. Hire a local tax professional who specializes in business taxation, particularly closely held corporations. If you don’t you risk very bad surprises. For example, based on your cavalier manner of drawing funds and (apparently) having those draws characterized as salary, you could wake up one day and find that an IRS auditor has recharacterized your salary as dividends. Bingo – your corporation owes back taxes and you, personally, are entitled to no refund. Good luck.

Response:

Well then, we’ll just have to wait for the CPA’s to pipe in on this.

I am a CPA. You are saying that personal monies invested in a private company is stuck there forever and that when you want it back you have to pay income taxes on money that you have already paid taxes on. What happens

I’m saying the "strategy" you and Deutschmann recommended will not work for the original poster based on the clear facts he provided. The profits or regular corporations are taxed twice in the U.S. There are ways to get money out that legally avoids that costly outcome but neither you nor Deutschmann described one that will work for the original poster. if you can only get 50% of your money back? Or none at all? The company goes bankrupt? Are you allowed a Capital Loss? Do you know what Capital Gains are? Could the CPA’s comment on this? I do own a company (5 of us) and I do have a Capital Share plus due to shareholders structure and I can’t wait to find out what the answer is… although I have already paid some of the "Dues to Shareholders" and none have been asked for taxes on that.

Five of you, if unrelated, being equal owners of a company is different from one person owning (directly or indirectly) 100% of a company. Rather than waiting for CPAs to "pipe in" here, I suggest you and your 4 fellow shareholders hire a tax specializing CPA of your own right now. Based on your demonstrated lack of knowledge you risk doing yourselves serious financial harm.

Response:

It’s hard to reply to a message like this because of the lack of information provided. It depends.

OK, let me make it simpler. Owner has company Company makes sale. Owner needs food Food costs money How does owner get money? Bryan

Response:

It’s not the "group"’s fault if you don’t like following good advice. Ever hear the expression "penny wise and pound foolish"?

Yep. That’s me. But I like this one better: "A fool and his money are soon partying." Bryan

Response:

Hi Bryan Did you put money into the corporation to get it started?

No – I didn’t need to – it’s an Internet business, and the startup costs were out of pocket. I didn’t want to waste any time setting up until I knew it would work. It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income.

Yes – that’s OK with me – I’m not trying to avoid taxes – yet Now if I need to draw money from the company, I just set up a dummy account and let the attorney figure out where and how it should be handled each quarter. And it usually means I owe taxes, FICA and other things on it. So if I need 5 grand, I’ll pull 6 instead and drop the 1 grand into a savings account to pay the income taxes when they come due each quarter.

OK, thanks. A previous poster (John) suggested a "suspense" account. Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area. Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes. Bryan

…….oh shit….here it comes….. Bryan

Response:

Credit the Bank Account and Debit the Suspense account. Later on when you talk with your accountant he can tell you how to best classify the expense. We don’t know the particulars of your company nor do we know of your personal finances so we can’t say if it’s best that you take it as salary, bonus or dividend. Your accountant will be able to figure that out for you. If you don’t have a Suspense account create one, it’s a balance sheet account, place it in the liability section toward the end of the Balance Sheet accounts, after the payables but before dividends, Capital/Share accounts and retained earnings. You have to remember when you look at your financial performance that the amount in the suspense account is not accounted for, so your results will be lower than reported. John

Thanks John – I set up the company on accounting software merely for the purposes of income tax reporting. Personally, I have no concern for looking good to anyone else. But you’ve made this look like a fairly simple maneuver so I’ll go with it. Bryan

Response:

Well then, we’ll just have to wait for the CPA’s to pipe in on this. You are saying that personal monies invested in a private company is stuck there forever and that when you want it back you have to pay income taxes on money that you have already paid taxes on. What happens if you can only get 50% of your money back? Or none at all? The company goes bankrupt? Are you allowed a Capital Loss? Do you know what Capital Gains are? Could the CPA’s comment on this? I do own a company (5 of us) and I do have a Capital Share plus due to shareholders structure and I can’t wait to find out what the answer is… although I have already paid some of the "Dues to Shareholders" and none have been asked for taxes on that. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not so. Mr. Deutschmann explained it correctly, the capital provided by the owner can be repaid without any tax implication on either side i.e.; the company or the owner. The company can recall shares at the issue price and there will be no gain or loss on either side. Or the original investment may have been a loan in which case the money is simply a repayment. How the money is treated is the only thing that will make the payment taxable or not and Mr. Deutschmann did say that if the owner was to take a dividend/bonus out of profits or retained earnings that the payment would be subject to taxes. You are so wrong you are dangerous to any owner of a closely held corporation. If the original poster does what you suggest and his 100% owned corporation has earnings and profit, he (the original poster) will have taxable dividend income. Quite simply put what Mr. Deutchmann explained is that you can buy 100 shares in xyz inc. at $10.00 and sell them back for $1,000 and you will not be taxed on the $1,000. Or you can lend $1,000 to xyz and when xyz repays the loan you will not be taxed on the original loan amount, quite the same as how a bank loan is treated, it is not revenue and the payments are not an expense. If "you" don’t control XYZ, Inc. directly or indirectly, then maybe. The OP CONTROLS his company which makes you wrong.

Response:

Not so. Mr. Deutschmann explained it correctly, the capital provided by the owner can be repaid without any tax implication on either side i.e.; the company or the owner. The company can recall shares at the issue price and there will be no gain or loss on either side. Or the original investment may have been a loan in which case the money is simply a repayment. How the money is treated is the only thing that will make the payment taxable or not and Mr. Deutschmann did say that if the owner was to take a dividend/bonus out of profits or retained earnings that the payment would be subject to taxes.

You are so wrong you are dangerous to any owner of a closely held corporation. If the original poster does what you suggest and his 100% owned corporation has earnings and profit, he (the original poster) will have taxable dividend income. Quite simply put what Mr. Deutchmann explained is that you can buy 100 shares in xyz inc. at $10.00 and sell them back for $1,000 and you will not be taxed on the $1,000. Or you can lend $1,000 to xyz and when xyz repays the loan you will not be taxed on the original loan amount, quite the same as how a bank loan is treated, it is not revenue and the payments are not an expense.

If "you" don’t control XYZ, Inc. directly or indirectly, then maybe. The OP CONTROLS his company which makes you wrong.

Response:

Not so. Mr. Deutschmann explained it correctly, the capital provided by the owner can be repaid without any tax implication on either side i.e.; the company or the owner. The company can recall shares at the issue price and there will be no gain or loss on either side. Or the original investment may have been a loan in which case the money is simply a repayment. How the money is treated is the only thing that will make the payment taxable or not and Mr. Deutschmann did say that if the owner was to take a dividend/bonus out of profits or retained earnings that the payment would be subject to taxes. Quite simply put what Mr. Deutchmann explained is that you can buy 100 shares in xyz inc. at $10.00 and sell them back for $1,000 and you will not be taxed on the $1,000. Or you can lend $1,000 to xyz and when xyz repays the loan you will not be taxed on the original loan amount, quite the same as how a bank loan is treated, it is not revenue and the payments are not an expense. John The original capital was neither an expense or a revenue on either side and the same is true – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income. Mr. Deutschmann, you are quite mistaken. Distributions to owners, to the extent of earnings and profits in the corporation, are taxable dividends to the owners.

Response:

It’s hard to reply to a message like this because of the lack of information provided. It depends.

Response:

It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income.

Mr. Deutschmann, you are quite mistaken. Distributions to owners, to the extent of earnings and profits in the corporation, are taxable dividends to the owners.

Response:

Hi Bryan Did you put money into the corporation to get it started? It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income. Now if I need to draw money from the company, I just set up a dummy account and let the attorney figure out where and how it should be handled each quarter. And it usually means I owe taxes, FICA and other things on it. So if I need 5 grand, I’ll pull 6 instead and drop the 1 grand into a savings account to pay the income taxes when they come due each quarter. TTUL Gary

Response:

Wow you are so funny. I never heard anyone refer to an accountant as a bean counter. But I guess you are right because we can’t help you we are busy counting them beans. 1, 2 3, 4, etc. It’s such a hackneyed term I wouldn’t think that anyone would take it as a disparaging remark. It would be like going into a medical forum and saying I’m not a "sawbones" – or telling a guitarist I’m not a "picker". In other words, it’s merely a nickname.

Bryan, The term does little justice to the profession and is certainly inappropiate when asking for help. Not that it mattered. Hell you could have started your post with screw all accountants or worse and you probably would have had twice as many responses. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bryan

Response:

Credit the Bank Account and Debit the Suspense account. Later on when you talk with your accountant he can tell you how to best classify the expense. We don’t know the particulars of your company nor do we know of your personal finances so we can’t say if it’s best that you take it as salary, bonus or dividend. Your accountant will be able to figure that out for you. If you don’t have a Suspense account create one, it’s a balance sheet account, place it in the liability section toward the end of the Balance Sheet accounts, after the payables but before dividends, Capital/Share accounts and retained earnings. You have to remember when you look at your financial performance that the amount in the suspense account is not accounted for, so your results will be lower than reported. John John. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living Thanks Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area. Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes.

It’s not the "group"’s fault if you don’t like following good advice. Ever hear the expression "penny wise and pound foolish"?

Response:

Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living Thanks Bryan

Response:

Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living

Wow you are so funny. I never heard anyone refer to an accountant as a bean counter. But I guess you are right because we can’t help you we are busy counting them beans. 1, 2 3, 4, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Bryan

Response:

Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living

What legal form is "the company"?

Response:

Wow you are so funny. I never heard anyone refer to an accountant as a bean counter. But I guess you are right because we can’t help you we are busy counting them beans. 1, 2 3, 4, etc.

It’s such a hackneyed term I wouldn’t think that anyone would take it as a disparaging remark. It would be like going into a medical forum and saying I’m not a "sawbones" – or telling a guitarist I’m not a "picker". In other words, it’s merely a nickname. Bryan

Response:

What legal form is "the company"?

At this point a straight Corporation. I might opt to an "S" corp, but haven’t as yet. regards, Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living Thanks Bryan

Response:

there are tax implications when an owner takes money out of a corp – if it’s payroll there’s FICA, medicare,etc. If withdrawing from the "cash account" then it could be called a dividend, if it’s from a shareholder’s loan account there are other considerations. — you might want to visit a professional this year!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What legal form is "the company"? At this point a straight Corporation. I might opt to an "S" corp, but haven’t as yet. regards, Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area.

Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes. Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area. Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes. Bryan

yes, withdrawing money takes just a few minutes —— you’re be paying for it a lot longer !!

Response:

Question:

don’t worry…..this person is obviously a jerk. it’s amazing that he could spell well enuf to get his thought across… Ha ! You must be really stupid to say that. You are one of this american who think that France is the capital of Paris, you know nothing only what TV learns you. You should travel a little to see that there are a lot of countries which are as developed as the USA. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

– Lenny Laks L2Net Mendocino, CA http://www.mcn.org/2/laks/l2net.htm

Response:

<snipped trolling abuse I suspect that Richard and ‘newsguy’ are the same person It would have been better for him to reply to his own message. I bet he is a real star where self-abuse is concerned. — David York

Response:

Hi, I have to writte an assigment about income model. We have to choose one like historical cost or net realizable value. The problem is that I am french and I do not completely understand how you choose Thank you

Sorry to come in so late, but why don’t you try asking the same question on uk.business.accountancy It may be a useful source of information, especially as you’re studying in England. Mike.

Response:

Do you even know how to write. Go away before I kick your puny ass. thank richard you have learnt me something : I am a dog!!!! In case you did not know that we are not the only one who uses euro. You must be really deseperate to be such a stupid guy. Americans are not a race, you comes from europe countries at the bigining, be carefull, you are perhaps from french people at the bigining of your family. What a shame!!!!! * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Juliette, are you French or do you French? Thank you very much David but that sort of person does not affect me. I am more sorry for him than angry. And I will try to use your advice for my assigment. juliette. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Pauvre con.

Response:

Hi, I have to writte an assigment about income model. We have to choose one like historical cost or net realizable value. The problem is that I am french and I do not completely understand how you choose Thank you

A business does not choose, it follows what is in law or accounting standards. For your assignment choose either a model you know more about or one that will help you earn more marks. Historical cost is not very interesting. Choose something else. — David York

Response:

Thank you for your answer and do nt worry I really don’t care of stupid rqcist persons. I do not study in the USA but in england. They have several methods to make their accounts for exemple : historical cost accounting or current cost accounting or net realizable value and I must chose and explain why it is better for companies to use one of them Thank you again for your first answer juliette * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

You must be really stupid to say that. You are one of this american who think that France is the capital of Paris, you know nothing only what TV learns you. You should travel a little to see that there are a lot of countries which are as developed as the USA. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Thank you for your answer and do nt worry I really don’t care of stupid rqcist persons. I do not study in the USA but in england. They have several methods to make their accounts for exemple : historical cost accounting or current cost accounting or net realizable value and I must chose and explain why it is better for companies to use one of them Thank you again for your first answer juliette

Hopping back in I said in another post that historical cost was not very interesting. Current cost accounting is dead for commercial financial reporting but sometimes used for public sector and management accounting. For example if a telephone company wants to convince a regulator that it is not making too much profit . Net realisable value is also known as ‘mark to market’ for short-term securities. This has some recent pronouncements in its favour. It is probably easier to base an answer on why a particular method has evolved and what advantages or disadvantages it has over historical cost accounting. Of course, other methods all claim to offer ‘better’ information even if they do not offer historical certainty and ease of use. But it is difficult to comment without reading the question and my French is not up to it! — David York

Response:

Ignore the French. They don’t bath, They stink, and they are a second-rate country with a third-rate government. And by the way, their women are dogs, too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for your answer and do nt worry I really don’t care of stupid rqcist persons. I do not study in the USA but in england. They have several methods to make their accounts for exemple : historical cost accounting or current cost accounting or net realizable value and I must chose and explain why it is better for companies to use one of them Thank you again for your first answer juliette Hopping back in I said in another post that historical cost was not very interesting. Current cost accounting is dead for commercial financial reporting but sometimes used for public sector and management accounting. For example if a telephone company wants to convince a regulator that it is not making too much profit . Net realisable value is also known as ‘mark to market’ for short-term securities. This has some recent pronouncements in its favour. It is probably easier to base an answer on why a particular method has evolved and what advantages or disadvantages it has over historical cost accounting. Of course, other methods all claim to offer ‘better’ information even if they do not offer historical certainty and ease of use. But it is difficult to comment without reading the question and my French is not up to it! — David York

Response:

Hi, I have to writte an assigment about income model. We have to choose one like historical cost or net realizable value. The problem is that I am french and I do not completely understand how you choose Thank you * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Don’t worry. Since you are French, no one will be expecting much from you. And, you probably stink so bad from your lack of bathing that no one will get near you. You French assholes have it made. Hi, I have to writte an assigment about income model. We have to choose one like historical cost or net realizable value. The problem is that I am french and I do not completely understand how you choose Thank you * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Juliette- J’aimerais dire que tous les am

Question:

People who passed for white were usually white. And they passed because white was where the great wealth and opportunity was and still is. Yeah, back when being black was a bad thing, and not a protected classisfication with government mandates to be chosen for State employment, contracts or admission to College. I don’t think being black was ever a bad thing, but even today there’s an advantage to having white skin.

"A was never bad, but B was always better." ? If being black wasn’t so bad, why did people try and pass as white? If being black isn’t a bad thing, then why mandate racial preferences based on skin color? Being black _was_ a bad thing. It narrowed your prospects for employment, advancement and social contacts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Especially when one recalls the case of the Boston Firefighters who self identified themselves to be "black" (As in "Black Irish") so as to take advantage of the racial preferences for "blacks". I know a young man who classifies himself as "Native American" – after all, he was born here. If I thought there was money to be made, what color do I need to be? You are not talking about money so much as an education, which would require at least four years of posing as a member of a class of society that has become stigmatized as inferior. I can see people passing for a day or a week for financial gain. A young student in Washington D.C. did a black like me in the South only five years ago and didn’t even last a week. So? You seem to be mistaking "culture" for "ethnicitiy." What’s the difference in your mind?

Culture isn’t tied into the shape or color of your skin. Ivana Schmidt is "Anglo-Cherokee Bund" (Names have been changed for privacy, but she has a Slavic first name, a German Surname, and a "Native American" Grandfather.) But trying to sort out her "culture" is fun – somedays "the thin veneer of urbane sophistication is insufficient to bely her bucollic origins." And a lot of people mistake her for Chicana. Kind of funny in it’s own right. She’d go into a restraunt when working in So Cal and half the staff would split out the back "La Migra!" I do think of African-Americans as a culture, yes, and not an ethnicity.

Are you trying to say then, that all African-Americans are the same? Don’t you have any hope of them ever leaving the ghetto? What do I have to do to get the cash? All I have to do, really, is put down on a form that I’m a "polliticaly correct minority" and then what? Try it. Chances are, though, you still won’t have trouble getting a cab. The police won’t stop your car in a white neighborhood for an official "black stop." And you could still probably browse a department store without store security checking out your every move.

You seem willing to not get it. I’m not worried about getting the cab, I’m worried about getting into college. I’m worried about my nephew getting into college, denied a place because he’s white, while Colin Powell or Jesse Jackson’s kids get a pass because their from a deprived ethnic background. And if we, as a nation, are going to be passing out governmetn largesse, such as jobs, contracts, and college admissions, based on the skin color of the applicant, then either we have some strong legal "guidelines" to determine who is a true minority, or we admit it’s a sham and are not suprised when people scam the system. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves… And when there is more than one possibility? As Archie points out below – Tiger Woods is "multiple ethniced". Does he have to pick one, or can he pick them all, or should he be able to weigh his answers so that he’s 25% African-American, 50% Thai, and 25% Caucasian? He can call himself "mixed race." Sorry, but there is no classification recognized as "mixed race." he is going to have to be assigned to the proper pigeon hole for processing. This is just pure nonsense. On a college application you can put a check in a box, not identify yourself at all or fill in a blank. It’s all based on the voluntary participation of the applicant. The admissions directors don’t call the applicants in and rate them.

Which is a loop hole that must be closed if we are going to be establishing racial preferences. How can we establish patterns of discrimination if the discriminated against aren’t identified? The real problem is that there are offices at all levels of Government tasked with finding racial discrimination. And find it they do. Regardless of the reality of the situation, the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Program will find a company discriminatory in it’s hiring and promotion practices if the numbers don’t line up. And one of the reasons that Hillsdale College disassociated itself from the "Free Federal Money for Students" was the inane demand from the feds that the College start keeping track of the racial makeup of it’s students. All in the name of "diversity." You’re making a straw man argument.

Only if you want to have race-neutral policies in regards to state employment, contracting or admission to state schools. Up until the election, it was the policy of the State of Washington to give preferencial preference by race or gender. Now that such discrimination has been banned, the race hustlers are looking for ways to ignore this law, and continue their racial discrimination. So my calls for racial classification laws are moot, at least as far as the State of Washington goes. — pyotr filipivich, AKA Nickolai Petrovich. "Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small, insignificant, and biodegradable." And remember kids – homicide is the severest form of censure. :-)

Response:

What advantage is that? I am not aware that being white has provided any advantages to me or my relatives or friends. Would you explain this? Not that many white folks get stopped for driving while black. True, but whites are raped, beaten, and burned to death by blacks just for being in the wrong neighborhoods,

The percentage of blacks who suffer such fates is probably higher. So your comment actually cuts my way, that it is advantageous to be white, than yours. WHy do you post comments supporting my view rather than your own? I guess it’s an IQ thing. Maybe your focus on that is fair, after all. and blacks are ten times more likely to commit crimes, so maybe the police are just doing their jobs and being proactive!

And, again, the victims are probably disproportionately black. I guess it’s hard for you to keep the topic in mind while you type at the same time? Probably about 99% of the Big Corp CEOs are white men. You think white men have 99% of the talent? And Jews dominate the media, academics, law, medicine, social science, Wall Street, and have all the wealth while only accounting for about 3% of the population.

So again you post evidence supporting MY position, that it is advantageous to be white, and not black. Maybe I should just sit back and let you destroy your own position – you are doing just fine without me. Odd you stressed IQ as an important factor in justifying unequal distributions, given your apparent inability to follow simple logic. I’d call that proof that it is because they are smart. So why do you deny that maybe CEOs are both white and intelligent?

Certainly they are white and intelligent. And certainly they do not possess 99% of the talent in society. The disproportionate benefits suggest an advantage in being white – since obviously IQ scores do not explain why they have 99% of the top jobs. I guess I must spell out every simple logical step for you. Seems a bit unlikely. Only to you.

Funny. You actually stand by the view that white males have not only 99% of the talent, but now, apparently, 99% of high IQ. Post proof please. You explain the results as due to IQ scores, but, of course, this generation of blacks score higher on IQ tests than the whites did when Bob Dole was a child. They are about a standard deviation smarter, as a matter of fact. On average. So I wonder about whether the tests measure something inside – or something the society does to us. But they are still stupid in comparison to whites, and whites are still stupid in comparison to Jews. So what is your point?

That the disparity is likely the result of something the world does to us. Such that again the argument that there is disadvantage doled out to those born black, compared to those born white, is supported. By the way, I am a bit out of date, but 25 years ago or so Jews were only half a standard deviation ahead. You tell us that now they are a full standard deviation up. I guess your logic is that there is an immutable trait, IQ, which causes the discrepancies in life outcomes, as opposed to differential "treatment" of some sort. But with IQ scores wildly changing over time, as they do, how valid can your presumed "immutable" theory be? ANd why is it that a group with IQs a full standard deviation lower than that of blacks, white people who are old, old enough to have taken the Standford-Binet in 1921 say, are so rich? I thought you said such results accrued to those with HIGH IQs, not LOW IQs. YEt the blacks, with far higher IQs, do worse. The actual facts dispute your theory. You just can’t quite get ANYTHING right. I guess you would conclude you have an IQ, and that this immutable trait explains your error after error after error in this post. Personally, I think it has more to do with something mutable – blind bias. WHich do you think it is – immutable stupidity or blind bias? If you can explain the Flynn effect you will be the first to do so.

No doubt another error. And again, a rather obvious one. Compare equals, that is people taking exams in the same decade. What do you think? You think the Whites taking the IQ tests in 1921 really were a standard deviation dumber than blacks today – or what? Again, if you have an answer for the Flynn effect you will go down in history. So far, it has been an interesting phenomenon but does not provide any answers why blacks are and remain far behind everyone else.

But it does prove that IQ scores are not primarily the result of some inherent, immutable genetic quality. Because we all agree that evolution does not produce dramatic changes in a generation or two. So your logic – that results are due primarily to scores on IQ tests which are due primarily to immutable genetic traits – is false.’ Yet despite knowing the FACTS, apparently, you persisted in obvious logical error. I guess some of us do better on those tests than others, whatever the root cause. Boy that eugenics stuff you talked about sure acts fast, you know? George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.

Mark – I guess, by your measure, you should avoid children – for our common good. George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.

Response:

What advantage is that? I am not aware that being white has provided any advantages to me or my relatives or friends. Would you explain this? Not that many white folks get stopped for driving while black.

True, but whites are raped, beaten, and burned to death by blacks just for being in the wrong neighborhoods, and blacks are ten times more likely to commit crimes, so maybe the police are just doing their jobs and being proactive! Probably about 99% of the Big Corp CEOs are white men. You think white men have 99% of the talent?

And Jews dominate the media, academics, law, medicine, social science, Wall Street, and have all the wealth while only accounting for about 3% of the population. I’d call that proof that it is because they are smart. So why do you deny that maybe CEOs are both white and intelligent? Seems a bit unlikely. Only to you. You explain the results as due to IQ scores, but, of course, this generation of blacks score higher on IQ tests than the whites did when Bob Dole was a child. They are about a standard deviation smarter, as a matter of fact. On average. So I wonder about whether the tests measure something inside – or something the society does to us.

But they are still stupid in comparison to whites, and whites are still stupid in comparison to Jews. So what is your point? If you can explain the Flynn effect you will be the first to do so. Compare equals, that is people taking exams in the same decade. What do you think? You think the Whites taking the IQ tests in 1921 really were a standard deviation dumber than blacks today – or what?

Again, if you have an answer for the Flynn effect you will go down in history. So far, it has been an interesting phenomenon but does not provide any answers why blacks are and remain far behind everyone else. Boy that eugenics stuff you talked about sure acts fast, you know? George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.

– The Eugenics Home Page: How to Breed a Better Human Being http://pw2.netcom.com/~nuenke/evolve.htm

Response:

I don’t think being black was ever a bad thing, but even today there’s an advantage to having white skin. What advantage is that? I am not aware that being white has provided any advantages to me or my relatives or friends. Would you explain this?

Not that many white folks get stopped for driving while black. Probably about 99% of the Big Corp CEOs are white men. You think white men have 99% of the talent? Seems a bit unlikely. You explain the results as due to IQ scores, but, of course, this generation of blacks score higher on IQ tests than the whites did when Bob Dole was a child. They are about a standard deviation smarter, as a matter of fact. On average. So I wonder about whether the tests measure something inside – or something the society does to us. What do you think? You think the Whites taking the IQ tests in 1921 really were a standard deviation dumber than blacks today – or what? Boy that eugenics stuff you talked about sure acts fast, you know? George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.

Response:

I don’t think being black was ever a bad thing, but even today there’s an advantage to having white skin.

What advantage is that? I am not aware that being white has provided any advantages to me or my relatives or friends. Would you explain this? And if being white bestows on me certain financial rewards, then why are the Jews so much better off than the whites? Jews are about nine times wealthier on average than whites, because they have an average IQ that is a standard deviation above whites, thanks to several thousand years of eugenics. And whites are financially better off than blacks because they are a standard deviation above blacks in intelligence, on average. This society values intelligence, and it rewards it. If you left me with my intellect, but made me able to pass as black, and also threw in a much larger ‘Johnson’, I would jump at the chance. My value would be enormous and jobs would come a begging, merely because I would now be in demand for BOTH my intelligence and for my minority status. — The Eugenics Home Page: How to Breed a Better Human Being http://pw2.netcom.com/~nuenke/evolve.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – People who passed for white were usually white. And they passed because white was where the great wealth and opportunity was and still is. Yeah, back when being black was a bad thing, and not a protected classisfication with government mandates to be chosen for State employment, contracts or admission to College. I don’t think being black was ever a bad thing, but even today there’s an advantage to having white skin. "A was never bad, but B was always better." ? If being black wasn’t so bad, why did people try and pass as white? If being black isn’t a bad thing, then why mandate racial preferences based on skin color? Being black _was_ a bad thing. It narrowed your prospects for employment, advancement and social contacts.

I don’t associate black with bad. I realize that others have and still do, but I think these people are logically wrong. But this is just semantics. I do think of African-Americans as a culture, yes, and not an ethnicity. Are you trying to say then, that all African-Americans are the same?

No, not all Germans are the same. Don’t you have any hope of them ever leaving the ghetto? Most African-Americans have already left the ghetto. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do I have to do to get the cash? All I have to do, really, is put down on a form that I’m a "polliticaly correct minority" and then what? Try it. Chances are, though, you still won’t have trouble getting a cab. The police won’t stop your car in a white neighborhood for an official "black stop." And you could still probably browse a department store without store security checking out your every move. You seem willing to not get it. I’m not worried about getting the cab, I’m worried about getting into college. I’m worried about my nephew getting into college, denied a place because he’s white, while Colin Powell or Jesse Jackson’s kids get a pass because their from a deprived ethnic background.

Colin Powell’s kids or Jesse Jackson’s kids won’t get accepted into college because they come from a deprived ethnic background. They get into college because they come from the middle-class, and nearly all middle-class kids can get into college. And if you have a problem with the fact that the wealthy and powerful get more opportuniy in America, than you must be a liberal like myself. I say everyone who wants to should be able to go to college. And if we, as a nation, are going to be passing out governmetn largesse, such as jobs, contracts, and college admissions, based on the skin color of the applicant, then either we have some strong legal "guidelines" to determine who is a true minority, or we admit it’s a sham and are not suprised when people scam the system.

And if we hadn’t done anything to provide economic opporunity to our largest minority, we’d have even more problems. But I see you are taking my advice about arguing against AA on principle rather than on the far-fetched grounds that we will have to have racial testing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves… And when there is more than one possibility? As Archie points out below – Tiger Woods is "multiple ethniced". Does he have to pick one, or can he pick them all, or should he be able to weigh his answers so that he’s 25% African-American, 50% Thai, and 25% Caucasian? He can call himself "mixed race." Sorry, but there is no classification recognized as "mixed race." he is going to have to be assigned to the proper pigeon hole for processing. This is just pure nonsense. On a college application you can put a check in a box, not identify yourself at all or fill in a blank. It’s all based on the voluntary participation of the applicant. The admissions directors don’t call the applicants in and rate them. Which is a loop hole that must be closed if we are going to be establishing racial preferences. How can we establish patterns of discrimination if the discriminated against aren’t identified?

There’s no need. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The real problem is that there are offices at all levels of Government tasked with finding racial discrimination. And find it they do. Regardless of the reality of the situation, the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Program will find a company discriminatory in it’s hiring and promotion practices if the numbers don’t line up. And one of the reasons that Hillsdale College disassociated itself from the "Free Federal Money for Students" was the inane demand from the feds that the College start keeping track of the racial makeup of it’s students. All in the name of "diversity." You’re making a straw man argument. Only if you want to have race-neutral policies in regards to state employment, contracting or admission to state schools. Up until the election, it was the policy of the State of Washington to give preferencial preference by race or gender. Now that such discrimination has been banned, the race hustlers are looking for ways to ignore this law, and continue their racial discrimination.

Good for them. Any university needs diversity. Colleges go out of their way to look for geographic diversity, why not racial diversity. Colleges probably look for Presidents of the Christian Coalition to shake things up as well. So my calls for racial classification laws are moot, at least as far as the State of Washington goes.

Yes, they are moot. And rather silly, too. By the way, check out today’s Washington Post for a photo of an interracial couple. Gail pyotr filipivich, AKA Nickolai Petrovich. "Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small, insignificant, and biodegradable." And remember kids – homicide is the severest form of censure. :-)

– http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3053/index.html

Response:

People who passed for white were usually white. And they passed because white was where the great wealth and opportunity was and still is. Yeah, back when being black was a bad thing, and not a protected classisfication with government mandates to be chosen for State employment, contracts or admission to College.

I don’t think being black was ever a bad thing, but even today there’s an advantage to having white skin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Especially when one recalls the case of the Boston Firefighters who self identified themselves to be "black" (As in "Black Irish") so as to take advantage of the racial preferences for "blacks". I know a young man who classifies himself as "Native American" – after all, he was born here. If I thought there was money to be made, what color do I need to be? You are not talking about money so much as an education, which would require at least four years of posing as a member of a class of society that has become stigmatized as inferior. I can see people passing for a day or a week for financial gain. A young student in Washington D.C. did a black like me in the South only five years ago and didn’t even last a week. So? You seem to be mistaking "culture" for "ethnicitiy."

What’s the difference in your mind? I do think of African-Americans as a culture, yes, and not an ethnicity. What do I have to do to get the cash? All I have to do, really, is put down on a form that I’m a "polliticaly correct minority" and then what?

Try it. Chances are, though, you still won’t have trouble getting a cab. The police won’t stop your car in a white neighborhood for an official "black stop." And you could still probably browse a department store without store security checking out your every move. Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves… And when there is more than one possibility? As Archie points out below – Tiger Woods is "multiple ethniced". Does he have to pick one, or can he pick them all, or should he be able to weigh his answers so that he’s 25% African-American, 50% Thai, and 25% Caucasian? He can call himself "mixed race." Sorry, but there is no classification recognized as "mixed race." he is going to have to be assigned to the proper pigeon hole for processing.

This is just pure nonsense. On a college application you can put a check in a box, not identify yourself at all or fill in a blank. It’s all based on the voluntary participation of the applicant. The admissions directors don’t call the applicants in and rate them. You’re making a straw man argument. Gail — http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3053/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to have to pig a back on Archie’s response, as Gail’s words of ‘wisdom’ didn’t make the first cut…. Author: Gail Weasel To which I respond that apparently, Ward doesn’t object to racial quotas and preferences, as long as the Correct Race is benefiting from the preferential treatment. With this in mind, it might be useful to establish some legal definition of racial classification, purely for purposes of racially based admission policies at state funded institutions mind you, that would make it possible to know when a person is protected racial minority, and when they are attempting to scam the system. How many white people would pretend to be black, or how many men would dress up as women for four years to get a college degree? More than you might think. So, I think two and there’s maybe 4 or 5? For this we throw out a program that is supported by most corporations, public institutions and women and minorities? I think you should stick to either arguing against AA out of principle or because it stigmatizes people. Considering the number of people who attempted to pass for white back when being black was a detriment to social and career advancement, quite a few. People who passed for white were usually white. And they passed because white was where the great wealth and opportunity was and still is.

Yeah, back when being black was a bad thing, and not a protected classisfication with government mandates to be chosen for State employment, contracts or admission to College. Especially when one recalls the case of the Boston Firefighters who self identified themselves to be "black" (As in "Black Irish") so as to take advantage of the racial preferences for "blacks". I know a young man who classifies himself as "Native American" – after all, he was born here. If I thought there was money to be made, what color do I need to be? You are not talking about money so much as an education, which would require at least four years of posing as a member of a class of society that has become stigmatized as inferior. I can see people passing for a day or a week for financial gain. A young student in Washington D.C. did a black like me in the South only five years ago and didn’t even last a week.

So? You seem to be mistaking "culture" for "ethnicitiy." What do I have to do to get the cash? All I have to do, really, is put down on a form that I’m a "polliticaly correct minority" and then what? Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves… And when there is more than one possibility? As Archie points out below – Tiger Woods is "multiple ethniced". Does he have to pick one, or can he pick them all, or should he be able to weigh his answers so that he’s 25% African-American, 50% Thai, and 25% Caucasian? He can call himself "mixed race."

Sorry, but there is no classification recognized as "mixed race." he is going to have to be assigned to the proper pigeon hole for processing. Here’s my point–and I do have one. A famous professor at Harvard asks his overwhelmingly majority white students whether there is racial equality in America. They overwhelmingly say yes. He then asks them if God came to them one night and told them he would make everything in their life the same, the same schools, the same books, the same class, the same home, except they would have black skin, what would the fair annual compensation be for the switch? The lowest compensation is a million a year. I would imagine if they were to become women, it would be a lot more!

So? This demonstrates what I’ve beleived for near on twenty plus years – the numnuls who go to Harvard place more weight on race than ordnianry folk. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If racial classification is going to be so crucial for government largese, standard definitons will be needed, as well as a classification of which racial mixtures are more oppressed than others. We’ve been doing AA for thirty years now without resortying to such nonsense. I’m beginning to think children born today won’t even need AA, and if we ever get to the point where massive numbers of white claim to be black, why, I think that would be just great and AA can be gone forever. OK, what about the "Tiger Woods" question? Mr Woods is only 25% black, the rest is composed of various other ethnicities. He’s a one-man melting pot. I think he considers himself mixed race. I have a number of friends who consider themselves mixed. They are very happy to be from both American worlds, except they don’t like being asked all the time: "What are you?"

But that is the _essence_ of how AA is _Practiced_. Not "what are your qualifications" but "what race are you?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forgetting for a moment that he’s a millionairre, supposing he wanted to apply for admission to a top-level university, under a program which had set-aside a certain number of new admissions for "disadvantaged" minorities. Could he apply for one of those seats by "identifying himself" as black? Should he? It’s up to him. IF I change my name to Gomez, am I "Hispanic"? Spanish surnamed. Why not try it for a few weeks and see what kind of reaction you get? Does a person by the name of Juan Carlos count as Hispanic? If his last name is "Bourbon" and he’s the King of Spain? Would Andres count as Hispanic or White? (He was an acquantance when I was in High School in Spain.) There are some Hispanics who are white, and there are some who self-identify as black. I think for AA purposes for college, if your friend wanted to be counted as a minority, he could call himself Hispanic or Spanish-surnamed. Race has nothing to do with it.

Sorry, Andres was Spanish. Born and raise in Franco’s Spain. Which makes him "white" for AA purposes – he’s one of those Europeans you know. Of course, the LA School district was onto something (or on something) when they declared a Jewish family Hispanic because they’d come from Mexico, after denying them the option to call themselves Sephardim (Jews from Southern Europe, as opposed to the Askanazim, which are what most people in this country think of as Jews.) And so it goes. The reason for this falderol is that if we are going to be having racial quotas and set asides, we are going to need legal defintions and standards to determine who is qualified. Why worry about marginal issues?

If not now, when? — pyotr filipivich, AKA Nickolai Petrovich. "Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small, insignificant, and biodegradable."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Author: Gail Weasel To which I respond that apparently, Ward doesn’t object to racial quotas and preferences, as long as the Correct Race is benefiting from the preferential treatment. With this in mind, it might be useful to establish some legal definition of racial classification, purely for purposes of racially based admission policies at state funded institutions mind you, that would make it possible to know when a person is protected racial minority, and when they are attempting to scam the system. How many white people would pretend to be black, or how many men would dress up as women for four years to get a college degree?

More than you might think. Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves…

OK, what about the "Tiger Woods" question? Mr Woods is only 25% black, the rest is composed of various other ethnicities. He’s a one-man melting pot. Forgetting for a moment that he’s a millionairre, supposing he wanted to apply for admission to a top-level university, under a program which had set-aside a certain number of new admissions for "disadvantaged" minorities. Could he apply for one of those seats by "identifying himself" as black? Should he? I am sure that there will be some resistance to the ideal of racial classification laws, but that can only be from people who lack the sort of progressive thinking that is required to bring about a race-free society. But it will be obvious that there will be need to be some legal means of determining when a person descended from a protected minority ancestors is no long a member of the protected minority. One difficulty that I see will be the need to determine whether a person descended from a protected minority on their mother’s side is more or less oppressed than one who traces their lineage from their father’s side. Needless to say, there will be some determination of possible synergistic effects, such as the person who’s mother’s people were Native American and whose father is of African-American origins. And last but not least, there will be the need to determine if a person of color, but a recent immigrant, is more or less oppressed than a native born person of color, and thus deserving of inclusion as an oppressed minority.

An interesting question which was recently addressed by actor Yaphet Kotto, a *first-generation* American, who happens to be black. His views on this matter may surprise some folks. Thank you , and good night.

And to you, too. pyotr . — pyotr filipivich, AKA Nickolai Petrovich. "Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small, insignificant, and biodegradable."

"The road to tyranny, we must never forget, begins with the destruction of the truth." — Bill Clinton, Oct. 15, 1995 at the University of Connecticut "Any effort, policy or program that has as a prerequisite the acceptance of the notion that blacks are inferior is a non-starter with me. I do not believe that kneeling is a position of strength. Nor do I believe that begging is an effective tactic. I am confident that the individual approach, not the group approach, is the better, more acceptable, more supportable and less dangerous one" –Justice Clarence Thomas, 7/29/98 "Despite all the opposition and the apparent dirty tricks, however, the people of California approved Proposition 209 by a margin of 54 percent. I don’t live in California. But I was glad. I have supported the intent of initiatives like 209 for some time because I happen to believe that shedding special preferences on account of my blackness is the next logical step in the evolution of improved American race relations. I believe it’s a step that must be taken in order to make black people – and brown people and women – fully vested citizens destined to stand or fall solely on their own merit. " –Ken Hamblin, November 1996

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Author: Gail Weasel Author: Gail Weasel To which I respond that apparently, Ward doesn’t object to racial quotas and preferences, as long as the Correct Race is benefiting from the preferential treatment. With this in mind, it might be useful to establish some legal definition of racial classification, purely for purposes of racially based admission policies at state funded institutions mind you, that would make it possible to know when a person is protected racial minority, and when they are attempting to scam the system. How many white people would pretend to be black, or how many men would dress up as women for four years to get a college degree? More than you might think. I say two. Do you think three or four?

Oh, I’d say more like five or six–thousand. Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves… OK, what about the "Tiger Woods" question? Mr Woods is only 25% black, the rest is composed of various other ethnicities. He’s a one-man melting pot. Forgetting for a moment that he’s a millionairre, supposing he wanted to apply for admission to a top-level university, under a program which had set-aside a certain number of new admissions for "disadvantaged" minorities. Could he apply for one of those seats by "identifying himself" as black? Should he? Who cares?

Anyone who wishes to have a *serious* discussion about AA, in which you accept that today, this is no longer just in black and white (no pun intended), but several shades of grey exist in-between. So, did you wish to have a serious discussion, or merely trot out some tired, dated, facile talking points? "Any effort, policy or program that has as a prerequisite the acceptance of the notion that blacks are inferior is a non-starter with me. I do not believe that kneeling is a position of strength. Nor do I believe that begging is an effective tactic. I am confident that the individual approach, not the group approach, is the better, more acceptable, more supportable and less dangerous one" –Justice Clarence Thomas, 7/29/98 "What’s popular isn’t always right. You say polls are against this. Polls measure changing feelings, not steadfast principle. Polls would have rejected the Ten Commandments. Polls would have embraced slavery and ridiculed women’s rights…. The point is not whether the President can prevail, but whether truth can prevail." –Rep. J.C. Watts [R-OK], House Impeachment Debate, 12/19/98

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Author: Gail Weasel To which I respond that apparently, Ward doesn’t object to racial quotas and preferences, as long as the Correct Race is benefiting from the preferential treatment. With this in mind, it might be useful to establish some legal definition of racial classification, purely for purposes of racially based admission policies at state funded institutions mind you, that would make it possible to know when a person is protected racial minority, and when they are attempting to scam the system. How many white people would pretend to be black, or how many men would dress up as women for four years to get a college degree? More than you might think.

I say two. Do you think three or four? Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves… OK, what about the "Tiger Woods" question? Mr Woods is only 25% black, the rest is composed of various other ethnicities. He’s a one-man melting pot. Forgetting for a moment that he’s a millionairre, supposing he wanted to apply for admission to a top-level university, under a program which had set-aside a certain number of new admissions for "disadvantaged" minorities. Could he apply for one of those seats by "identifying himself" as black? Should he?

Who cares? — http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3053/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to have to pig a back on Archie’s response, as Gail’s words of ‘wisdom’ didn’t make the first cut…. Author: Gail Weasel To which I respond that apparently, Ward doesn’t object to racial quotas and preferences, as long as the Correct Race is benefiting from the preferential treatment. With this in mind, it might be useful to establish some legal definition of racial classification, purely for purposes of racially based admission policies at state funded institutions mind you, that would make it possible to know when a person is protected racial minority, and when they are attempting to scam the system. How many white people would pretend to be black, or how many men would dress up as women for four years to get a college degree? More than you might think.

So, I think two and there’s maybe 4 or 5? For this we throw out a program that is supported by most corporations, public institutions and women and minorities? I think you should stick to either arguing against AA out of principle or because it stigmatizes people. Considering the number of people who attempted to pass for white back when being black was a detriment to social and career advancement, quite a few.

People who passed for white were usually white. And they passed because white was where the great wealth and opportunity was and still is. Especially when one recalls the case of the Boston Firefighters who self identified themselves to be "black" (As in "Black Irish") so as to take advantage of the racial preferences for "blacks". I know a young man who classifies himself as "Native American" – after all, he was born here. If I thought there was money to be made, what color do I need to be?

You are not talking about money so much as an education, which would require at least four years of posing as a member of a class of society that has become stigmatized as inferior. I can see people passing for a day or a week for financial gain. A young student in Washington D.C. did a black like me in the South only five years ago and didn’t even last a week. Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves… And when there is more than one possibility? As Archie points out below – Tiger Woods is "multiple ethniced". Does he have to pick one, or can he pick them all, or should he be able to weigh his answers so that he’s 25% African-American, 50% Thai, and 25% Caucasian?

He can call himself "mixed race." Here’s my point–and I do have one. A famous professor at Harvard asks his overwhelmingly majority white students whether there is racial equality in America. They overwhelmingly say yes. He then asks them if God came to them one night and told them he would make everything in their life the same, the same schools, the same books, the same class, the same home, except they would have black skin, what would the fair annual compensation be for the switch? The lowest compensation is a million a year. I would imagine if they were to become women, it would be a lot more! If racial classification is going to be so crucial for governmetn largese, standard definitons will be needed, as well as a classification of which racial mixtures are more oppressed than others.

We’ve been doing AA for thirty years now without resortying to such nonsense. I’m beginning to think children born today won’t even need AA, and if we ever get to the point where massive numbers of white claim to be black, why, I think that would be just great and AA can be gone forever. OK, what about the "Tiger Woods" question? Mr Woods is only 25% black, the rest is composed of various other ethnicities. He’s a one-man melting pot.

I think he considers himself mixed race. I have a number of friends who consider themselves mixed. They are very happy to be from both American worlds, except they don’t like being asked all the time: "What are you?" Forgetting for a moment that he’s a millionairre, supposing he wanted to apply for admission to a top-level university, under a program which had set-aside a certain number of new admissions for "disadvantaged" minorities. Could he apply for one of those seats by "identifying himself" as black? Should he?

It’s up to him. IF I change my name to Gomez, am I "Hispanic"?

Spanish surnamed. Why not try it for a few weeks and see what kind of reaction you get? Does a person by the name of Juan Carlos count as Hispanic? If his last name is "Bourbon" and he’s the King of Spain? Would Andres count as Hispanic or White? (He was an acquantance when I was in High School in Spain.)

There are some Hispanics who are white, and there are some who self-identify as black. I think for AA purposes for college, if your friend wanted to be counted as a minority, he could call himself Hispanic or Spanish-surnamed. Race has nothing to do with it. Of course, the LA School district was onto something (or on something) when they declared a Jewish family Hispanic because they’d come from Mexico, after denying them the option to call themselves Sephardim (Jews from Southern Europe, as opposed to the Askanazim, which are what most people in this country think of as Jews.) And so it goes. The reason for this falderol is that if we are going to be having racial quotas and set asides, we are going to need legal defintions and standards to determine who is qualified.

Why worry about marginal issues? — pyotr filipivich, AKA Nickolai Petrovich. "Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small, insignificant, and biodegradable."

– http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3053/index.html

Response:

I’m going to have to pig a back on Archie’s response, as Gail’s words of ‘wisdom’ didn’t make the first cut…. Author: Gail Weasel To which I respond that apparently, Ward doesn’t object to racial quotas and preferences, as long as the Correct Race is benefiting from the preferential treatment. With this in mind, it might be useful to establish some legal definition of racial classification, purely for purposes of racially based admission policies at state funded institutions mind you, that would make it possible to know when a person is protected racial minority, and when they are attempting to scam the system. How many white people would pretend to be black, or how many men would dress up as women for four years to get a college degree? More than you might think.

Considering the number of people who attempted to pass for white back when being black was a detriment to social and career advancement, quite a few. Especially when one recalls the case of the Boston Firefighters who self identified themselves to be "black" (As in "Black Irish") so as to take advantage of the racial preferences for "blacks". I know a young man who classifies himself as "Native American" – after all, he was born here. If I thought there was money to be made, what color do I need to be? Why make it so complicated? Just ask people how they identify themselves…

And when there is more than one possibility? As Archie points out below – Tiger Woods is "multiple ethniced". Does he have to pick one, or can he pick them all, or should he be able to weigh his answers so that he’s 25% African-American, 50% Thai, and 25% Caucasian? If racial classification is going to be so crucial for governmetn largese, standard definitons will be needed, as well as a classification of which racial mixtures are more oppressed than others. OK, what about the "Tiger Woods" question? Mr Woods is only 25% black, the rest is composed of various other ethnicities. He’s a one-man melting pot. Forgetting for a moment that he’s a millionairre, supposing he wanted to apply for admission to a top-level university, under a program which had set-aside a certain number of new admissions for "disadvantaged" minorities. Could he apply for one of those seats by "identifying himself" as black? Should he?

IF I change my name to Gomez, am I "Hispanic"? Does a person by the name of Juan Carlos count as Hispanic? If his last name is "Bourbon" and he’s the King of Spain? Would Andres count as Hispanic or White? (He was an acquantance when I was in High School in Spain.) Of course, the LA School district was onto something (or on something) when they declared a Jewish family Hispanic because they’d come from Mexico, after denying them the option to call themselves Sephardim (Jews from Southern Europe, as opposed to the Askanazim, which are what most people in this country think of as Jews.) And so it goes. The reason for this falderol is that if we are going to be having racial quotas and set asides, we are going to need legal defintions and standards to determine who is qualified. — pyotr filipivich, AKA Nickolai Petrovich. "Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small, insignificant, and biodegradable."

Response:

Question:

I am a former company controller starting my own accounting service (not a CPA). Can anyone offer advice on fees, or know where I can find information on this. I began thinking I would charge by the hour, but some small business people I’ve spoken with are uncomfortable with that. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

I currently work for a CPA firm as a bookkeeper. My billing rate is $35.00 hr. The more experienced accountants rates are $60.00 and the CPA’s rates are $100.00. Hope you find this helpful.

Response:

Question:

Would anyone have any information about how to get started doing Medical Billing from your home. This seems to be getting more and more popular and it’s something I’m very interested in doing. I wouldn’t waste my time and/or money. Medical offices, as a rule, do NOT use billing services. A few do, mostly "retirement minded" docs that don’t want to make an investment in systems, etc. From the physician’s standpoint, it just makes no sense at all — paying an outside party to maintain THEIR records on the third party’s computer?

I agree. In addition, the key to such work is knowing what codes to use in billing for maximum legal reimbursement. You need lots of training in big medical offices to learn to do it right. Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A., 954-566-7540, fax 7541 QuickBooks Prof. Advisor & Official QB 6 Top Tester biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33334

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would anyone have any information about how to get started doing Medical Billing from your home. This seems to be getting more and more popular and it’s something I’m very interested in doing. I actually do accounting from my home but haven’t been able to find any other accounts to take on. Medical Billing seems widespread and theres a demand for it, according to the ads in the paper, but they are for experienced people. I would be able to get the software from the College I attend for a fraction of the price that it cost over the phone. Two of the numbers I’ve called from ads in the paper wanted $299 for the software and technical support. This is the main reason I didn’t go with them and would like to do it on my own. I can get the software for $94.50 and also a tutorial book with disks for $54.50. Still less that $299. Any information would be appreciated such as who to contact, how to get started other than buying and learning the software, and how much to charge. Thanks, Sandi

Sandi, the "big boys" offer to do billing at 39 cents a pop. Hardly worth competing billing. Maybe someone over on sci.med.transcription would be able to direct you. Good luck, — Anna — ICQ 13940096 <<— http://home.att.net/~A.Sargent/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would anyone have any information about how to get started doing Medical Billing from your home. This seems to be getting more and more popular and it’s something I’m very interested in doing. I actually do accounting from my home but haven’t been able to find any other accounts to take on. Medical Billing seems widespread and theres a demand for it, according to the ads in the paper, but they are for experienced people. I would be able to get the software from the College I attend for a fraction of the price that it cost over the phone. Two of the numbers I’ve called from ads in the paper wanted $299 for the software and technical support. This is the main reason I didn’t go with them and would like to do it on my own. I can get the software for $94.50 and also a tutorial book with disks for $54.50. Still less that $299. Any information would be appreciated such as who to contact, how to get started other than buying and learning the software, and how much to charge. Thanks, Sandi

I wouldn’t waste my time and/or money. Medical offices, as a rule, do NOT use billing services. A few do, mostly "retirement minded" docs that don’t want to make an investment in systems, etc. From the physician’s standpoint, it just makes no sense at all — paying an outside party to maintain THEIR records on the third party’s computer? There really isn’t any cogent argument that can be made in favor of outside billing services, other than the one mentioned above. David Ray, CPA Frontier Medical Office Systems (you get the idea)….

Response:

Would anyone have any information about how to get started doing Medical Billing from your home. This seems to be getting more and more popular and it’s something I’m very interested in doing. I actually do accounting from my home but haven’t been able to find any other accounts to take on. Medical Billing seems widespread and theres a demand for it, according to the ads in the paper, but they are for experienced people. I would be able to get the software from the College I attend for a fraction of the price that it cost over the phone. Two of the numbers I’ve called from ads in the paper wanted $299 for the software and technical support. This is the main reason I didn’t go with them and would like to do it on my own. I can get the software for $94.50 and also a tutorial book with disks for $54.50. Still less that $299. Any information would be appreciated such as who to contact, how to get started other than buying and learning the software, and how much to charge. Thanks, Sandi

Accounting Talk

questions about accruel

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Non-profit auditing; diff 'tween for profit orgs

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Bookkeeping software

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Writing off RV interest

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Your Favourite Small Business Accounting software

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Owner wants to withdraw money

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response: