Question:

they will be going on holidays starting august 22 and won’t be back to work sun sun  and more sun here i come……. angie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Angie: Congrats on losing 5 lbs. Good for you!!! My sympathies for your b/f grandmother and your great aunt. I hope the next little while is less busy. Connie — Cheers, Connie Walsh 241.5/228/220(SWWC)/155 hey everyone.  havent been around for awhile, but have some good news to report i have lost 5lbs. i lost them within the last three weeks. i went from 140 to 135 lbs which brings me to an all time low of 135 lbs. yah me.        i have been working really hard the last three weeks. and it is paying off. my size 13 pants are all too big or are getting to big for me. time to move to the next size soon i think. even my size medium p.j pants are huge on me. i have to tie the strings as tight as i can just so they will stay on.    the reason i haven’t been around the last little while is because up until the first of this month i have not had a fixed address of my own. i told the person that i was renting from that i was giving her my 30 days notice and she completley freeked on me and told me that if i didn’t have a letter waiting for her saying that i would pay her for the last months rent that my things would have to be out by the next day by noon.    well i told her that wasn’t going to happen because i had to work and had no one to move me and that i wasn’t going to miss any work because of her stupidity. and she told me that if i didn’t have them out she would put my things out herself and that she wouldn’t be responsible for any damage to them. well fortunatly for me she didn’t do any of that. but i did have to call the police on her because she then proceeded to lock me out of the house even though i had paid to be there til the end of july, that was 2 weeks ago.     i called the police and they talked her into letting me get some clothes at least so i could go to by b/fs house, which is an hours and a half away by bus from where i work. also to get my shoes because she had locked me out of the house with no shoes. in the end everything worked out for me because we live in the same residence and share a kitchen i don’t have to pay her any money or for that matter give her any  notice.    to top all that off i lost my bus pass for a day and a half so i was stranded at my b/f’s not able to go anywhere because anywhere her requires u to go by bus. found it with in a day and a half, thank god. was able to go back to work on the saturday, and was there for only a couple of hrs when i got a phone call from my b/f stating that his grand mother had passed away and that we had to go to the funeral which is 45 mins away by bus from where we live. we travelled from there to here off and on for three days. most of which was by bus.    in the mix of all that i had to move my stuff that same weekend into my new apartment where i  couldn’t be until august 1/03. then this week that just past i  found also that my great aunt mary passed away who was 102 yrs old. she was the oldest family member on my mothers side of the family.     juring all this excitment. i managed to lose 5lbs. thats how i come to be at 135lbs. just thought i would fill u in on why i haven’t been around have been cathing up on posts the last couple of days. congrads to all those who have lost and to those who haven’t keeping working at it because anything is possible if u set ur mind to it.    i am now 10 lbs away from my final goal and i am hoping to be there by august 29 which is my b day if not then , then i have set it for sept 20/03. so i am going to work as hard as i can from now until then. have a great rest of the week everyone take care and talk to you soon angie message Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Congrats on your 2 mini-goals!  GREAT going!!!  I’ve learned to never question a whoosh.  ;) — ~Kristin O 272/239/172

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Great loss, Laura, congrats. Linda 252/179/140 SWWC–182.2/179/165

Response:

Hi Angie: Congrats on losing 5 lbs. Good for you!!! My sympathies for your b/f grandmother and your great aunt. I hope the next little while is less busy. Connie — Cheers, Connie Walsh 241.5/228/220(SWWC)/155 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey everyone.  havent been around for awhile, but have some good news to report i have lost 5lbs. i lost them within the last three weeks. i went from 140 to 135 lbs which brings me to an all time low of 135 lbs. yah me.        i have been working really hard the last three weeks. and it is paying off. my size 13 pants are all too big or are getting to big for me. time to move to the next size soon i think. even my size medium p.j pants are huge on me. i have to tie the strings as tight as i can just so they will stay on.    the reason i haven’t been around the last little while is because up until the first of this month i have not had a fixed address of my own. i told the person that i was renting from that i was giving her my 30 days notice and she completley freeked on me and told me that if i didn’t have a letter waiting for her saying that i would pay her for the last months rent that my things would have to be out by the next day by noon.    well i told her that wasn’t going to happen because i had to work and had no one to move me and that i wasn’t going to miss any work because of her stupidity. and she told me that if i didn’t have them out she would put my things out herself and that she wouldn’t be responsible for any damage to them. well fortunatly for me she didn’t do any of that. but i did have to call the police on her because she then proceeded to lock me out of the house even though i had paid to be there til the end of july, that was 2 weeks ago.     i called the police and they talked her into letting me get some clothes at least so i could go to by b/fs house, which is an hours and a half away by bus from where i work. also to get my shoes because she had locked me out of the house with no shoes. in the end everything worked out for me because we live in the same residence and share a kitchen i don’t have to pay her any money or for that matter give her any  notice.    to top all that off i lost my bus pass for a day and a half so i was stranded at my b/f’s not able to go anywhere because anywhere her requires u to go by bus. found it with in a day and a half, thank god. was able to go back to work on the saturday, and was there for only a couple of hrs when i got a phone call from my b/f stating that his grand mother had passed away and that we had to go to the funeral which is 45 mins away by bus from where we live. we travelled from there to here off and on for three days. most of which was by bus.    in the mix of all that i had to move my stuff that same weekend into my new apartment where i  couldn’t be until august 1/03. then this week that just past i  found also that my great aunt mary passed away who was 102 yrs old. she was the oldest family member on my mothers side of the family.     juring all this excitment. i managed to lose 5lbs. thats how i come to be at 135lbs. just thought i would fill u in on why i haven’t been around have been cathing up on posts the last couple of days. congrads to all those who have lost and to those who haven’t keeping working at it because anything is possible if u set ur mind to it.    i am now 10 lbs away from my final goal and i am hoping to be there by august 29 which is my b day if not then , then i have set it for sept 20/03. so i am going to work as hard as i can from now until then. have a great rest of the week everyone take care and talk to you soon angie Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Good job! Melissa in NJ — and the "Boos Hounds" (Bear, Bits, and Lexus) and Maxi (aka Witch Kitty with a "B"), Kenobi (aka "Kitty Wan Kenobi"), and Salem (aka "Salem the Yak") Quilt Something for Yourself!    Adopt a Racing Greyhound! — —

Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Congratulations on meeting your two mini goals.  Good luck meeting the next as well. — Brenda 209/179/150 SWWC goal 165

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Holy smokes, your life is a a busy one.  Sorry about your b/f’s grandma and your great aunt.  Glad you got out of your old place and into a new one, now perhaps you can concentrate on staying OP and getting your life back to normal.  A loss of 5 pounds during a stressful time is amazing.  While DH was in the hospital for 6 1/2 weeks I basically lost nothing, but didn’t really gain either.  Good luck losing more and welcome back to the group. — Brenda 209/179/150 SWWC goal 165

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey everyone.  havent been around for awhile, but have some good news to report i have lost 5lbs. i lost them within the last three weeks. i went from 140 to 135 lbs which brings me to an all time low of 135 lbs. yah me.        i have been working really hard the last three weeks. and it is paying off. my size 13 pants are all too big or are getting to big for me. time to move to the next size soon i think. even my size medium p.j pants are huge on me. i have to tie the strings as tight as i can just so they will stay on.    the reason i haven’t been around the last little while is because up until the first of this month i have not had a fixed address of my own. i told the person that i was renting from that i was giving her my 30 days notice and she completley freeked on me and told me that if i didn’t have a letter waiting for her saying that i would pay her for the last months rent that my things would have to be out by the next day by noon.    well i told her that wasn’t going to happen because i had to work and had no one to move me and that i wasn’t going to miss any work because of her stupidity. and she told me that if i didn’t have them out she would put my things out herself and that she wouldn’t be responsible for any damage to them. well fortunatly for me she didn’t do any of that. but i did have to call the police on her because she then proceeded to lock me out of the house even though i had paid to be there til the end of july, that was 2 weeks ago.     i called the police and they talked her into letting me get some clothes at least so i could go to by b/fs house, which is an hours and a half away by bus from where i work. also to get my shoes because she had locked me out of the house with no shoes. in the end everything worked out for me because we live in the same residence and share a kitchen i don’t have to pay her any money or for that matter give her any  notice.    to top all that off i lost my bus pass for a day and a half so i was stranded at my b/f’s not able to go anywhere because anywhere her requires u to go by bus. found it with in a day and a half, thank god. was able to go back to work on the saturday, and was there for only a couple of hrs when i got a phone call from my b/f stating that his grand mother had passed away and that we had to go to the funeral which is 45 mins away by bus from where we live. we travelled from there to here off and on for three days. most of which was by bus.    in the mix of all that i had to move my stuff that same weekend into my new apartment where i  couldn’t be until august 1/03. then this week that just past i  found also that my great aunt mary passed away who was 102 yrs old. she was the oldest family member on my mothers side of the family.     juring all this excitment. i managed to lose 5lbs. thats how i come to be at 135lbs. just thought i would fill u in on why i haven’t been around have been cathing up on posts the last couple of days. congrads to all those who have lost and to those who haven’t keeping working at it because anything is possible if u set ur mind to it.    i am now 10 lbs away from my final goal and i am hoping to be there by august 29 which is my b day if not then , then i have set it for sept 20/03. so i am going to work as hard as i can from now until then. have a great rest of the week everyone take care and talk to you soon angie Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Congrats on loosing the 2 1/2 lbs, Laura. I’ve learned there’s no accounting for how our metabolisms work–just go with the flow and be grateful for losses Linda 252/179.6/136 SWWC–182.2/179.6/165

Response:

Congrats on the loss in spite of the residential hassles. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey everyone. havent been around for awhile, but have some good news to report i have lost 5lbs. i lost them within the last three weeks. i went from 140 to 135 lbs which brings me to an all time low of 135 lbs. yah me.       i have been working really hard the last three weeks. and it is paying off. my size 13 pants are all too big or are getting to big for me. time to move to the next size soon i think. even my size medium p.j pants are huge on me. i have to tie the strings as tight as i can just so they will stay on.   the reason i haven’t been around the last little while is because up until the first of this month i have not had a fixed address of my own. i told the person that i was renting from that i was giving her my 30 days notice and she completley freeked on me and told me that if i didn’t have a letter waiting for her saying that i would pay her for the last months rent that my things would have to be out by the next day by noon.   well i told her that wasn’t going to happen because i had to work and had no one to move me and that i wasn’t going to miss any work because of her stupidity. and she told me that if i didn’t have them out she would put my things out herself and that she wouldn’t be responsible for any damage to them. well fortunatly for me she didn’t do any of that. but i did have to call the police on her because she then proceeded to lock me out of the house even though i had paid to be there til the end of july, that was 2 weeks ago.    i called the police and they talked her into letting me get some clothes at least so i could go to by b/fs house, which is an hours and a half away by bus from where i work. also to get my shoes because she had locked me out of the house with no shoes. in the end everything worked out for me because we live in the same residence and share a kitchen i don’t have to pay her any money or for that matter give her any  notice.   to top all that off i lost my bus pass for a day and a half so i was stranded at my b/f’s not able to go anywhere because anywhere her requires u to go by bus. found it with in a day and a half, thank god. was able to go back to work on the saturday, and was there for only a couple of hrs when i got a phone call from my b/f stating that his grand mother had passed away and that we had to go to the funeral which is 45 mins away by bus from where we live. we travelled from there to here off and on for three days. most of which was by bus.   in the mix of all that i had to move my stuff that same weekend into my new apartment where i  couldn’t be until august 1/03. then this week that just past i  found also that my great aunt mary passed away who was 102 yrs old. she was the oldest family member on my mothers side of the family.    juring all this excitment. i managed to lose 5lbs. thats how i come to be at 135lbs. just thought i would fill u in on why i haven’t been around have been cathing up on posts the last couple of days. congrads to all those who have lost and to those who haven’t keeping working at it because anything is possible if u set ur mind to it.   i am now 10 lbs away from my final goal and i am hoping to be there by august 29 which is my b day if not then , then i have set it for sept 20/03. so i am going to work as hard as i can from now until then. have a great rest of the week everyone take care and talk to you soon angie Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Great work on making those goals overlap.  Best on meeting the next goal and goals – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Congratulations on thata loss, Laura. I’ve said a few time to people who have plateaud that they might need to shake up their menu – and you sure did that ;-D It really worked for you! Elaine K 331.4/184.6/179 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Wow Laura, a whoosh indeed! I ‘m following a similar pattern : maintain for 3/4 weeks, and then, the week when I overeat or eat junk, whammo, a whoosh! I guess we keep our bodies guessing,huh. Good job on the minigoals as well! — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/106.3/minigoal 104.1 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/234.4/minigoal 229.5/Goal 150 pounds SWWC 238/234.4/226

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

hey everyone.  havent been around for awhile, but have some good news to report i have lost 5lbs. i lost them within the last three weeks. i went from 140 to 135 lbs which brings me to an all time low of 135 lbs. yah me.        i have been working really hard the last three weeks. and it is paying off. my size 13 pants are all too big or are getting to big for me. time to move to the next size soon i think. even my size medium p.j pants are huge on me. i have to tie the strings as tight as i can just so they will stay on.    the reason i haven’t been around the last little while is because up until the first of this month i have not had a fixed address of my own. i told the person that i was renting from that i was giving her my 30 days notice and she completley freeked on me and told me that if i didn’t have a letter waiting for her saying that i would pay her for the last months rent that my things would have to be out by the next day by noon.    well i told her that wasn’t going to happen because i had to work and had no one to move me and that i wasn’t going to miss any work because of her stupidity. and she told me that if i didn’t have them out she would put my things out herself and that she wouldn’t be responsible for any damage to them. well fortunatly for me she didn’t do any of that. but i did have to call the police on her because she then proceeded to lock me out of the house even though i had paid to be there til the end of july, that was 2 weeks ago.     i called the police and they talked her into letting me get some clothes at least so i could go to by b/fs house, which is an hours and a half away by bus from where i work. also to get my shoes because she had locked me out of the house with no shoes. in the end everything worked out for me because we live in the same residence and share a kitchen i don’t have to pay her any money or for that matter give her any  notice.    to top all that off i lost my bus pass for a day and a half so i was stranded at my b/f’s not able to go anywhere because anywhere her requires u to go by bus. found it with in a day and a half, thank god. was able to go back to work on the saturday, and was there for only a couple of hrs when i got a phone call from my b/f stating that his grand mother had passed away and that we had to go to the funeral which is 45 mins away by bus from where we live. we travelled from there to here off and on for three days. most of which was by bus.    in the mix of all that i had to move my stuff that same weekend into my new apartment where i  couldn’t be until august 1/03. then this week that just past i  found also that my great aunt mary passed away who was 102 yrs old. she was the oldest family member on my mothers side of the family.     juring all this excitment. i managed to lose 5lbs. thats how i come to be at 135lbs. just thought i would fill u in on why i haven’t been around have been cathing up on posts the last couple of days. congrads to all those who have lost and to those who haven’t keeping working at it because anything is possible if u set ur mind to it.    i am now 10 lbs away from my final goal and i am hoping to be there by august 29 which is my b day if not then , then i have set it for sept 20/03. so i am going to work as hard as i can from now until then. have a great rest of the week everyone take care and talk to you soon angie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after about 3 or 4 weeks of practically maintaining, last week (as of Friday I think) I lost half a pound and this morning (Wednesday) I’d lost another 2! Isn’t it weird when you get a loss after a ‘bad’ week – one day of out-and-out binging, and another with just eating rubbish food ‘on the go’ because I was busy.  Still, I’ll take it if that’s ok please ;o) It means I’ve gone past two mini goals – to have lost 20 pounds and to have lost a stone and a half (21).  Next goal is to get under 150, so only half a pound away, then to have a stone (14 lbs) to go, which is a pound away. Might take a few more weeks, but I’m ok with waiting now ;o) Hope you’re all doing well and working towards your own goals! Laura 171/150/135 SWWC goal of 144 23, 5′6"

Response:

Question:

Would you please specify the parts that you think are meaningless and ridiculous. We are not in a restaurant but we are discussing an intellect.Things which are judged by mind have to be fully explained to the end so the mind can judge them fairly.As to food the first mouthful is enough to judge whether he food is good or bad. There’s a difference between the sense of tasting food and the intellectual logic in judging things. We hope you judge issues by the logic of mind not by the logic of tasting food. If you find any thing incomprehensible please do not hesitate to inform us. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So far you haven’t posted anything that makes sense!  The further you go the more ridiculous your ideas become.  I don’t have to finish eating a meal to know that it is bad, the first mouthful is enough. — Ken Russell Sydney | How do you make a judgment on something that has not been explained | completely? | We are still explaining our thought in modern accounting (Theory of | Units accounting). | Our comments are not(abuse).Do you consider posing an intellect that | handles the flaws of the double entry system as abuse? | We WON’T stop until we finish posing all of our ideas so they are | judged  fairly by all of the accountants. | Please wait and you will be convinced soon by the benefits of Theory | of Units as each new idea has its enemies who turn to be its friends | once its benefits are clear. | | We have a saying in Australia | | "Piss off, wanker" | | In you language it probably translates to … | | "…We have read all of your comments – they are worthless as you do not | know the first thing that you are talking about. We are now not any  longer | going to write anything that you write. | | If you keep writing we will report you for ‘abuse’ as that is what your | contributions have become…" | | Now, please stop posting here. | | What we are talking about has a tremendous international economical  benefit. | We hope that your comments be objective as before. | | What in the world are you guys talking about? | | Why don’t you just give up and go away?

Response:

We have a saying in Australia "Piss off, wanker" In you language it probably translates to … "…We have read all of your comments – they are worthless as you do not know the first thing that you are talking about. We are now not any longer going to write anything that you write. If you keep writing we will report you for ‘abuse’ as that is what your contributions have become…" Now, please stop posting here.

What we are talking about has a tremendous international economical benefit. We hope that your comments be objective as before.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What in the world are you guys talking about? Why don’t you just give up and go away?

Response:

How do you make a judgment on something that has not been explained completely? We are still explaining our thought in modern accounting (Theory of Units accounting). Our comments are not(abuse).Do you consider posing an intellect that handles the flaws of the double entry system as abuse? We WON’T stop until we finish posing all of our ideas so they are judged  fairly by all of the accountants. Please wait and you will be convinced soon by the benefits of Theory of Units as each new idea has its enemies who turn to be its friends once its benefits are clear. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have a saying in Australia "Piss off, wanker" In you language it probably translates to … "…We have read all of your comments – they are worthless as you do not know the first thing that you are talking about. We are now not any longer going to write anything that you write. If you keep writing we will report you for ‘abuse’ as that is what your contributions have become…" Now, please stop posting here. What we are talking about has a tremendous international economical  benefit. We hope that your comments be objective as before. What in the world are you guys talking about? Why don’t you just give up and go away?

Response:

So far you haven’t posted anything that makes sense!  The further you go the more ridiculous your ideas become.  I don’t have to finish eating a meal to know that it is bad, the first mouthful is enough. — Ken Russell Sydney

| How do you make a judgment on something that has not been explained | completely? | We are still explaining our thought in modern accounting (Theory of | Units accounting). | Our comments are not(abuse).Do you consider posing an intellect that | handles the flaws of the double entry system as abuse? | We WON’T stop until we finish posing all of our ideas so they are | judged  fairly by all of the accountants. | Please wait and you will be convinced soon by the benefits of Theory | of Units as each new idea has its enemies who turn to be its friends | once its benefits are clear. | | We have a saying in Australia | | "Piss off, wanker" | | In you language it probably translates to … | | "…We have read all of your comments – they are worthless as you do not | know the first thing that you are talking about. We are now not any longer | going to write anything that you write. | | If you keep writing we will report you for ‘abuse’ as that is what your | contributions have become…" | | Now, please stop posting here. | | What we are talking about has a tremendous international economical |  benefit. | We hope that your comments be objective as before. | | What in the world are you guys talking about? | | Why don’t you just give up and go away?

Response:

Trade-in transaction is the replacement of an assets instead of another assets. This system was used for a long time until money was used as at first people did not need to know the profit but the main concern was to satisfy their needs,but after currency was used they needed to know the profit of daily transactions then each commodity was given a price.In theory of units trade-in transactions should associate units with values where revenue will be recognized.Therefore,the theory of units will not consider any trade-in transaction(an asset is exchanged for another asset) unless it is associated with money value. In theory of units purchasing transaction is totally independent from selling transaction and the same could be said about disbursement and revenue transactions.All transactions are measured by cash which result value.The classified measured unit which is incoming to the organization in a tangible form represents the same unit which influenced the other units in the organization and left it with its measures but in another form and from another asset .This asset from which the unit went out could be owned by the organization such as,the cash or the bank.Or it could be the result of a selling transaction on a credit basis with an undertaking to repay cash.Both kinds of assets are associated with prices which result value.In conclusion, theory of units recognizes the purchasing transaction as the incoming of one ass on one hand and the outgoing of another asset on the other hand,which is represented by cash payment,or selling on a credit basis.Therefore,theory of units does not recognize the trade-in or exchange-in transactions in its context.

Response:

What in the world are you guys talking about? Why don’t you just give up and go away? — Ken Russell Sydney

Response:

Can you imagine apparently they have been working on this for 15 YEARS!!!  Talk about having nothing to do!  I wouldn’t want to be on my deathbed reflecting on my life and achievements and having only the theory of units to show. I’d rather go fishing and drink beer.  At least I hope they’re having fun, but I really think that there could be a more productive use of time in one’s life.  These guys have nothing over Mother Theresa!  But then I guess we’re not all that productive posting replies, we won’t solve all the pain and suffering in the world either!  But we’re having fun! (And it won’t use 15 years of our lives). John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What in the world are you guys talking about? Why don’t you just give up and go away? — Ken Russell Sydney

Response:

What we are talking about has a tremendous international economical benefit. We hope that your comments be objective as before. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What in the world are you guys talking about? Why don’t you just give up and go away?

Response:

Question:

AirNZ just made a bad investment. Yes. But did get up to some pretty unacceptible behaviour as it was going down the tubes, no doubt in an attempt to save at least the parent company. Guess what Rod, they usually do in these circumstances.

Not as flagrantly as that. and decided to go it alone into Ansett. Yes, but that was a terminally stupid decision. It certainly made considerable sense to buy the first half of Ansett, but it would have made a lot more sense to let SIA buy the second half Of course.  Their problem was that there was little synergy between the two (SIA would have had much more use for Ansett)

It had bugger all to do with that. and AirNZ didn’t have enough capital.

Thats what I said and you deleted from the quoting. It had nothing to do with any ‘economic downturn’, that didnt even happen. What did happen was that the fuel costs went thru the roof and the $A drop was also a major problem for an operation that wasnt doing that well before both of those happened, with real competition for the first time as well. With a couple of operations that did know what they were doing on costs. And why did the A$ drop rod.

Basically because the $US hiked and the interest rate relativitys. Just in cse you hadn’t noticed, there has been an economic downturn.

Pigs arse there was as far as the airlines were concerned. Maybe not domestically

And thats what matters with Ansett when so little of their revenue is international. but certainly globally.

Bullshit as far as the time that Ansett was hemorraging money is concerned. That had nothing to do with any purported global ‘economic downturn’ Fuel was clearly a major contributing factor.

As I said, and you deleted from the quoting again. It could have worked. I doubt it. They were saddled with costs that the new real competition didnt have. Lets not forget that Virgin was making a small profit, even If the cost position didn’t deteriorate it could have worked.

Yes, if the fuel costs hadnt hiked, and the $A dropped, its possible that their higher wages costs could have been tolerated. Harder to say on that tho with Virgin then being able to still make a profit at lower fairs that they could have forced Ansett to wear etc. I agree SIA probably would have done a better job

Corse they could, most obviously with the vital fleet upgrade. They had the cash, AirNZ didnt and wasnt gunna get that. but obviously AirNZ also could have.

I doubt it, even on just the substantially higher wages bill, and the lack of capital for the crucial fleet upgrade alone. Lets not forget that AirNZ essentially attempted to digest a much bigger operation when they bought Ansett and it was never clear that they would be able to make that work, in spades when they never had the balls to put the boot into the Ansett unions, let alone do the basic stuff like maintenance adequately, in a uniquely aggressively competitive domestic market. Those clowns couldnt even manage to get new senior management in a timely manner as people like Eddington pissed off etc. If a few things had gone their way, time may have allowed them to turn it around.

Cant see that with a uniquely aggressive domestic market for the first time and them saddled with their much higher wages costs and about the worst fleet in any first world airline. It might well have worked if they hadnt been stupid enough to prevent SIA buying the second half of Ansett from News. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bet it wont be. AirNZ will likely go straight down the tubes and its all over bar the shit slinging about how that happened. you may well be right.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That just isn’t true matt.  Unfunded pension liabilities are still a major problem in the US.  This is totally different from that situation.  I am not saying it is better just different. Accounts in Australia are no different in that regard.  i am not saying that they reported it just that if there was a genuine failuer to provide legally required entitlementsm they should have reported them. Has nothing to do with ASIC. I don’t think there are ANY unfunded pension obligations in the USA anymore. ERISA took care of that. There are quite a few that are UNDER FUNDED I will concede, especially after the last year in the stock market. The distinction is that the unfunded pension liabilities ARE shown on the books of US companies. It may be an unfunded obligation, but anyone who looks at the books, will know it is there. I have yet to see an Australian Company that shows the entitlements on the books, or funds it as  the liability is incurred.

You really wanna get out more on that last sentence. As for the comment that it wouldn’t have made any difference, I doubt it.

$400M is a fart in the bath in their total liabilitys. Who wants to buy a company with that kind of risk?

$400M is a fart in the bath in their total liabilitys. It is a sizeable portion of the total of AN liabilities.

Pigs arse it is. Without that risk, parts of AN might be sold as functioning business units.

Parts of it will be, you watch. With it, all you are going to see from AN is an Assett sale.

Wanna bet ? No one wants to pick up that liability.

No one has to pick it all up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Regards, Jason. Actually I don’t there is anyway the AN purchase could have had a good outcome.  As best I can tell, the entitlements are not shown on the books as a liability, especially as an UNFUNDED liability. There are good reasons to do this, they make the company look better, and by not funding the liabilities, in increases short term profit and executive bonuses. Let the next guy worry about it. This is very similar to an issue that was addressed in the USA in the 1970’s where the Accounting rules were changed to require that pension and other future contingent  liabilities be shown on the books, as well as the extent to which they were funded. You will find that information in just about every US Corporation’s annual report, and Securities and Exchange Filings. US companies now report and fund those liabilities pretty much as they are incurred. If you don’t, you can expect a ‘qualified’ auditors opinions. It is a level of transparency in the accounts that ASIC does not require. The problem is AN had off the books liabilities on the order of 500,000,000AUD, and I suspect News Knew it, but NZ seems to have been either too stupid, or to dumb to know about it, or notice it.

Response:

It looks like AirNZ ran a good company like Ansett into the ground to keep a bad company like AirNZ running. We will see for of the facts in the next few days. Where do you get this "Ansett good" crap from?

Plucked it out of its arse, most likely. They have been losing money for years.

Wrong again. Their IR record makes the MUA look like pansies.

Wrong again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Obviously not possible.

Response:

22:50:53 +0800 in aus.aviation, Jason Carley AirNZ just made a bad investment. Yes. But did get up to some pretty unacceptible behaviour as it was going down the tubes, no doubt in an attempt to save at least the parent company. Guess what Rod, they usually do in these circumstances.

If it was the Australian or NZ or any government, they would too. That is why your government has refused to bail out Ansett. snip Bet it wont be. AirNZ will likely go straight down the tubes and its all over bar the shit slinging about how that happened. you may well be right.

Air NZ could be in statutory management next week — Patrick Dunford, Christchurch, NZ – http://pdunford.godzone.net.nz/ CHRISTCHURCH-US TERRORISM MEMORIAL http://www.geocities.com/pjrdunford/    Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God — this is your spiritual act of worship.  Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will.     — Romans 12:1-2        http://www.StudyLight.org/desk/?query=Romans+12:1-2

Response:

It is a level of transparency in the accounts that ASIC does not require. Wrong. And ASIC aint relevant to a NZ operation anyway.

Wrong. Of course it is relevant to an Australian registered company regardless of its ultimate ownership. As I point out in an earlier message, ASIC actually has nothing to with it the point that matt is making but they are the supervisory agency.

Response:

That just isn’t true matt.  Unfunded pension liabilities are still a major problem in the US.  This is totally different from that situation.  I am not saying it is better just different. Accounts in Australia are no different in that regard.  i am not saying that they reported it just that if there was a genuine failuer to provide legally required entitlementsm they should have reported them. Has nothing to do with ASIC.

I don’t think there are ANY unfunded pension obligations in the USA anymore. ERISA took care of that. There are quite a few that are UNDER FUNDED I will concede, especially after the last year in the stock market. The distinction is that the unfunded pension liabilities ARE shown on the books of US companies. It may be an unfunded obligation, but anyone who looks at the books, will know it is there. I have yet to see an Australian Company that shows the entitlements on the books, or funds it as  the liability is incurred. As for the comment that it wouldn’t have made any difference, I doubt it.  Who wants to buy a company with that kind of risk? It is a sizeable portion of the total of AN liabilities. Without that risk, parts of AN might be sold as functioning business units. With it, all you are going to see from AN is an Assett sale. No one wants to pick up that liability. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Regards, Jason. Actually I don’t there is anyway the AN purchase could have had a good outcome.  As best I can tell, the entitlements are not shown on the books as a liability, especially as an UNFUNDED liability. There are good reasons to do this, they make the company look better, and by not funding the liabilities, in increases short term profit and executive bonuses. Let the next guy worry about it. This is very similar to an issue that was addressed in the USA in the 1970’s where the Accounting rules were changed to require that pension and other future contingent  liabilities be shown on the books, as well as the extent to which they were funded. You will find that information in just about every US Corporation’s annual report, and Securities and Exchange Filings. US companies now report and fund those liabilities pretty much as they are incurred. If you don’t, you can expect a ‘qualified’ auditors opinions. It is a level of transparency in the accounts that ASIC does not require. The problem is AN had off the books liabilities on the order of 500,000,000AUD, and I suspect News Knew it, but NZ seems to have been either too stupid, or to dumb to know about it, or notice it.

Response:

AirNZ just made a bad investment. Yes. But did get up to some pretty unacceptible behaviour as it was going down the tubes, no doubt in an attempt to save at least the parent

company. Guess what Rod, they usually do in these circumstances. and decided to go it alone into Ansett. Yes, but that was a terminally stupid decision. It certainly made considerable sense to buy the first half of Ansett, but it would have made a lot more sense to let SIA buy the

Of course.  Their problem was that there was little synergy between the two (SIA would have had much more use for Ansett) and AirNZ didn’t have enough capital. It had nothing to do with any ‘economic downturn’, that didnt even happen. What did happen was that the fuel costs went thru the roof and the $A drop was also a major problem for an operation that wasnt doing that well before both of those happened, with real competition for the first time as well. With a couple of operations that did know what they were doing on costs.

And why did the A$ drop rod.  Just in cse you hadn’t noticed, there has been an economic downturn. Maybe not domestically but certainly globally. Fuel was clearly a major contributing factor. It could have worked. I doubt it. They were saddled with costs that the new real competition didnt have. Lets not forget that Virgin was making a small profit, even

If the cost position didn’t deteriorate it could have worked. I agree SIA probably would have done a better job but obviously AirNZ also could have. If a few things had gone their way, time may have allowed them to turn it around. Bet it wont be. AirNZ will likely go straight down the tubes and its all over bar the shit slinging about how that happened.

you may well be right.

Response:

That just isn’t true matt.  Unfunded pension liabilities are still a major problem in the US.  This is totally different from that situation.  I am not saying it is better just different. Accounts in Australia are no different in that regard.  i am not saying that they reported it just that if there was a genuine failuer to provide legally required entitlementsm they should have reported them. Has nothing to do with ASIC.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Regards, Jason. Actually I don’t there is anyway the AN purchase could have had a good outcome.  As best I can tell, the entitlements are not shown on the books as a liability, especially as an UNFUNDED liability. There are good reasons to do this, they make the company look better, and by not funding the liabilities, in increases short term profit and executive bonuses. Let the next guy worry about it. This is very similar to an issue that was addressed in the USA in the 1970’s where the Accounting rules were changed to require that pension and other future contingent  liabilities be shown on the books, as well as the extent to which they were funded. You will find that information in just about every US Corporation’s annual report, and Securities and Exchange Filings. US companies now report and fund those liabilities pretty much as they are incurred. If you don’t, you can expect a ‘qualified’ auditors opinions. It is a level of transparency in the accounts that ASIC does not require. The problem is AN had off the books liabilities on the order of 500,000,000AUD, and I suspect News Knew it, but NZ seems to have been either too stupid, or to dumb to know about it, or notice it.

Response:

As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Actually I don’t there is anyway the AN purchase could have had a good outcome.  As best I can tell, the entitlements are not shown on the books as a liability, especially as an UNFUNDED liability.

Its a fart in the bath as far as the total liablitys are concerned. There are good reasons to do this, they make the company look better, and by not funding the liabilities, in increases short term profit and executive bonuses. Let the next guy worry about it. This is very similar to an issue that was addressed in the USA in the 1970’s where the Accounting rules were changed to require that pension and other future contingent  liabilities be shown on the books, as well as the extent to which they were funded.

Pity it would have made fuck all difference. You will find that information in just about every US Corporation’s annual report, and Securities and Exchange Filings.

Pity it would have made fuck all difference. US companies now report and fund those liabilities pretty much as they are incurred. If you don’t, you can expect a ‘qualified’ auditors opinions.

Pity it would have made fuck all difference. It is a level of transparency in the accounts that ASIC does not require.

Wrong. And ASIC aint relevant to a NZ operation anyway. The problem is AN had off the books liabilities on the order of 500,000,000AUD, and I suspect News Knew it, but NZ seems to have been either too stupid, or to dumb to know about it, or notice it.

Pity it would have made fuck all difference.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, Hardly ‘tragic’ AirNZ just made a bad investment. Yes. But did get up to some pretty unacceptible behaviour as it was going down the tubes, no doubt in an attempt to save at least the parent company. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry Yes. and decided to go it alone into Ansett. Yes, but that was a terminally stupid decision. It certainly made considerable sense to buy the first half of Ansett, but it would have made a lot more sense to let SIA buy the second half and that could well have produced a viable result, particularly if SIA had put a bomb under the stupid unions fools and had put up the cash for the crucial fleet upgrade. When you say "Air NZ" read "Air NZ shareholders except for the SIA shareholding".

Fraid not. Air New Zealand is part owned by SIA,

Yes. obviously the push to keep SIA out of Ansett came from other shareholders than SIA – presume Brierlys and other smaller shareholders.

It dont work like that on that ‘other smaller shareholders’ no one bothers to even ask them.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, Hardly ‘tragic’ AirNZ just made a bad investment. Yes. But did get up to some pretty unacceptible behaviour as it was going down the tubes, no doubt in an attempt to save at least the parent company. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry Yes. and decided to go it alone into Ansett. Yes, but that was a terminally stupid decision. It certainly made considerable sense to buy the first half of Ansett, but it would have made a lot more sense to let SIA buy the second half and that could well have produced a viable result, particularly if SIA had put a bomb under the stupid unions fools and had put up the cash for the crucial fleet upgrade.

snip When you say "Air NZ" read "Air NZ shareholders except for the SIA shareholding". Air New Zealand is part owned by SIA, obviously the push to keep SIA out of Ansett came from other shareholders than SIA – presume Brierlys and other smaller shareholders. — Patrick Dunford, Christchurch, NZ – http://pdunford.godzone.net.nz/ CHRISTCHURCH-US TERRORISM MEMORIAL http://www.geocities.com/pjrdunford/    For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.     — Matthew 18:20        http://www.StudyLight.org/desk/?query=Matthew+18:20

Response:

It looks like AirNZ ran a good company like Ansett into the ground to keep a bad company like AirNZ running.  We will see for of the facts in the next few days.

Where do you get this "Ansett good" crap from? They have been losing money for years. Their IR record makes the MUA look like pansies. As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing?

Obviously not possible. — Patrick Dunford, Christchurch, NZ – http://pdunford.godzone.net.nz/ CHRISTCHURCH-US TERRORISM MEMORIAL http://www.geocities.com/pjrdunford/    For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.     — Matthew 18:20        http://www.StudyLight.org/desk/?query=Matthew+18:20

Response:

As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Regards, Jason.

Actually I don’t there is anyway the AN purchase could have had a good outcome.  As best I can tell, the entitlements are not shown on the books as a liability, especially as an UNFUNDED liability. There are good reasons to do this, they make the company look better, and by not funding the liabilities, in increases short term profit and executive bonuses. Let the next guy worry about it. This is very similar to an issue that was addressed in the USA in the 1970’s where the Accounting rules were changed to require that pension and other future contingent  liabilities be shown on the books, as well as the extent to which they were funded. You will find that information in just about every US Corporation’s annual report, and Securities and Exchange Filings. US companies now report and fund those liabilities pretty much as they are incurred. If you don’t, you can expect a ‘qualified’ auditors opinions. It is a level of transparency in the accounts that ASIC does not require. The problem is AN had off the books liabilities on the order of 500,000,000AUD, and I suspect News Knew it, but NZ seems to have been either too stupid, or to dumb to know about it, or notice it.

Response:

It looks like AirNZ ran a good company like Ansett

It wasnt ‘a good company’ at all. It was in fact the operation with the worst problem wages wise, and the worst fleet by far of the 4 competing very aggressively in the national market. into the ground to keep a bad company like AirNZ running.

Mindlessly silly, AirNZ was reasonably profitable without the money hemorraging onto the floor in Ansett. We will see for of the facts in the next few days.

Even if AirNZ does sink beneath the waves this week, wont prove anything about that line of yours above. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Regards, Jason.

Response:

As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians,

Hardly ‘tragic’ AirNZ just made a bad investment.

Yes. But did get up to some pretty unacceptible behaviour as it was going down the tubes, no doubt in an attempt to save at least the parent company. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry

Yes. and decided to go it alone into Ansett.

Yes, but that was a terminally stupid decision. It certainly made considerable sense to buy the first half of Ansett, but it would have made a lot more sense to let SIA buy the second half and that could well have produced a viable result, particularly if SIA had put a bomb under the stupid unions fools and had put up the cash for the crucial fleet upgrade. AirNZ thought it could go it alone, and they were wrong. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it.

It had nothing to do with any ‘economic downturn’, that didnt even happen. What did happen was that the fuel costs went thru the roof and the $A drop was also a major problem for an operation that wasnt doing that well before both of those happened, with real competition for the first time as well. With a couple of operations that did know what they were doing on costs. It could have worked.

I doubt it. They were saddled with costs that the new real competition didnt have. Lets not forget that Virgin was making a small profit, even with the fuel cost and $A problem, while Ansett was hemorraging money. If SIA had had the second half of Ansett, its possible they could have done something about those other costs, particularly wages, and the other problem that Ansett was saddled with the worst fleet of the lot, of the 4 competing in the national market. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid.

Bet it wont be. AirNZ will likely go straight down the tubes and its all over bar the shit slinging about how that happened. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing?

No thanks, its the most important thing thats happened in the last decade aviation wise. More important than the failure of the two Compasses too.

Response:

It looks like AirNZ ran a good company like Ansett into the ground to keep a bad company like AirNZ running.  We will see for of the facts in the next few days.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Regards, Jason.

Response:

As tragic as it may seem to all of us Australians, AirNZ just made a bad investment. They were trying to avoid being marginalised is a consolidating industry and decided to go it alone into Ansett. At the time it looked too big for them and that, coupled with the economic downturn, killed it. It could have worked. Undoubtedly all of these transactions between the two will be investigated and where proven, the money will have to be repaid. Can’t we get back to flying discussion rather than rehashing all this trans-Tasman bashing? Regards, Jason.

Response:

Question:

SCOTTISH WINDOWS It has come to our attention that a few copies of the Glasgow Ned edition of Windows 98 may have accidentally been shipped outside Glasgow. If you have one of the Glasgow Ned editions you may need some help understanding the commands. The Glasgow Ned edition may be recognized by looking at the opening screen. It reads WINDAES 98 with a background picture of a Buckfast bottle superimposed on a Celtic flag. It is shipped with a Buckfast screen saver. Also note: The Recycle Bin is labeled Bog Dialup Networking is called Ma Mates Control Panel is known as How Tae Fuck Aboot Wi The Settins Hard Drive is referred to as Big Disk Floppies are Them Wee Plastic Fuckers. And instead of an error message, you get a windae covered with an empty Buckfast bottle. Other features: OK = its aww-right cancel = fuck off reset = whit yoo aw aboot yes = aye no = nay fuckin’ chance find = get it yer fuckin’ sel’ go to = orr therr help = ah cannae dae it stop = gie’s fuckin peace start = fuckin’ move settings = settins programs = stuff at does stuff My Documents = ma shit Also note that Windaes 98 does not recognize capital letters or punctuation marks. Some programs that are exclusive to WINDAES 98: tiperiter = a word processor cullerin book = a graphics program addin mershene = calculator scratch paper = notepad (usually unused) sounds = CD player porn = Microsoft Internet Explorer pikchers = a graphics viewer dole money = M/S accounting software Sellik = a spreadsheet of Celtic F.C.’s recent scores Bevvy = local off-licenses by area code and price of Tennent’s Super cuzzins = family history (usually 14-year-old mother’s name and a shortlist of possible fathers) tax records = usually an empty file Kappa tracksuit inventory (usually 3 meg file) doactir = veterinarians by post code We regret any inconvenience it may have cause if you received a copy of the Glasgow Ned edition. You may return it to Microsoft for a replacement version. Regards, Brian Huy Marketing Director E-mail this funny                           http://looop.net/funnies/ —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

muahahah i think this is hilarious. i lived there for six months and i’m going back! fur fucks sake! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SCOTTISH WINDOWS It has come to our attention that a few copies of the Glasgow Ned edition of Windows 98 may have accidentally been shipped outside Glasgow. If you have one of the Glasgow Ned editions you may need some help understanding the commands. The Glasgow Ned edition may be recognized by looking at the opening screen. It reads WINDAES 98 with a background picture of a Buckfast bottle superimposed on a Celtic flag. It is shipped with a Buckfast screen saver. Also note: The Recycle Bin is labeled Bog Dialup Networking is called Ma Mates Control Panel is known as How Tae Fuck Aboot Wi The Settins Hard Drive is referred to as Big Disk Floppies are Them Wee Plastic Fuckers. And instead of an error message, you get a windae covered with an empty Buckfast bottle. Other features: OK = its aww-right cancel = fuck off reset = whit yoo aw aboot yes = aye no = nay fuckin’ chance find = get it yer fuckin’ sel’ go to = orr therr help = ah cannae dae it stop = gie’s fuckin peace start = fuckin’ move settings = settins programs = stuff at does stuff My Documents = ma shit Also note that Windaes 98 does not recognize capital letters or punctuation marks. Some programs that are exclusive to WINDAES 98: tiperiter = a word processor cullerin book = a graphics program addin mershene = calculator scratch paper = notepad (usually unused) sounds = CD player porn = Microsoft Internet Explorer pikchers = a graphics viewer dole money = M/S accounting software Sellik = a spreadsheet of Celtic F.C.’s recent scores Bevvy = local off-licenses by area code and price of Tennent’s Super cuzzins = family history (usually 14-year-old mother’s name and a shortlist of possible fathers) tax records = usually an empty file Kappa tracksuit inventory (usually 3 meg file) doactir = veterinarians by post code We regret any inconvenience it may have cause if you received a copy of the Glasgow Ned edition. You may return it to Microsoft for a replacement version. Regards, Brian Huy Marketing Director E-mail this funny                           http://looop.net/funnies/ —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Question:

I have what I admit must be an elementary accounting question, one that I’ve bounced around in my head for a number of years — how does one handles investments in the double-entry bookkeeping regime (a few years ago I taught myself elementary double-entry bookkeeping just because and actually spent a few months doing it by hand on my personal finances for practice .  I have long since stopped doing this and just use Money for my finances (I’m a software engineer W-2 person, so there’s no business stuff — i.e. real accounting needs — to deal with.  (Though the fact that Money treats payments of principal on loans as *expenses* drives me nuts…I have in fact created a whole bunch of asset and liability accounts to simulate double-entry bookkeeping within Money…oh well . Anyways, regular income and expenses I have no problem with.  For example, when a cash sale of $100 occurs, the Cash account under Assets is debited $100 (DRs increase the balance of Asset accounts if I remember correctly) and the offsetting credit of $100 (CRs increase the balance of Revenue accounts if I remember correctly) is made to the Gross Sales income account.  DRs=CRs and all is right with the world.  Then at the end of the month (or whatever accounting period) an adjusting transaction is made where Gross Income is debited by its full amount to reduce its balance to zero and Equity is credited that amount — as part of closing all the income and expense accounts into the Equity account. But what happens with investments that change in value?  I suppose the balance sheet can always be made to balance by just noting that investments went up $1000 and therefore one must increase Equity by $1000 to make it balance and not enter a transaction.  Or does one put in a transaction debit the Investment asset account $1000 and credit Equity $1000 (same result as above, but with a formal transaction in place on the books)?  Both of these approaches bug the anal-retentive side of me because there is no tie-in to the income statement.  Yes, Assets = Liabilities + Equity as always, but the Equity[this period] = Net Income + Equity[last period] relation no longer holds because the change in investment value is "off the books", as it were. So out in the real world (say at a mutual fund, or a corporation that has a lot of its assets invested in stock, or even something as mundane as an investment club), how is this handled?  Are there income accounts for Investment Gains for which transactions are entered debiting and crediting between it and investment Asset accounts?  Is Investment Gains (if such accounts exist) broken into Realized Gains, Unrealized Gains, and various current income (i.e.  dividends, interest, etc) accounts, all of which are closed into Equity at the end of the various accounting periods?  Or even here are the investment gains and losses left off the income statement but show up on the balance sheet? —

Response:

In accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP) unrealized holding gains/losses should not impact current earning. At the end of any reporting period, changes in market value are reported directly to the equity section of the balance sheet. The method I use to account for these changes are as follows: Set up a contra account offsetting investments called "Allowance for mark to market" and an equity account called unrealized gains/losses. If the market value is higher than the recorded cost then a journal entry is made recording this change as follows: Allowance for mark to market            xxxxxx Unrealized Gain/Loss                                       xxxxxx If the value went down, then the entry would be reversed. In any event if you are not reporting on a GAAP basis but on an Income Tax Basis, revaluing marketable securities is not necessary. Allan Martin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have what I admit must be an elementary accounting question, one that I’ve bounced around in my head for a number of years — how does one handles investments in the double-entry bookkeeping regime (a few years ago I taught myself elementary double-entry bookkeeping just because and actually spent a few months doing it by hand on my personal finances for practice .  I have long since stopped doing this and just use Money for my finances (I’m a software engineer W-2 person, so there’s no business stuff — i.e. real accounting needs — to deal with.  (Though the fact that Money treats payments of principal on loans as *expenses* drives me nuts…I have in fact created a whole bunch of asset and liability accounts to simulate double-entry bookkeeping within Money…oh well . Anyways, regular income and expenses I have no problem with.  For example, when a cash sale of $100 occurs, the Cash account under Assets is debited $100 (DRs increase the balance of Asset accounts if I remember correctly) and the offsetting credit of $100 (CRs increase the balance of Revenue accounts if I remember correctly) is made to the Gross Sales income account.  DRs=CRs and all is right with the world.  Then at the end of the month (or whatever accounting period) an adjusting transaction is made where Gross Income is debited by its full amount to reduce its balance to zero and Equity is credited that amount — as part of closing all the income and expense accounts into the Equity account. But what happens with investments that change in value?  I suppose the balance sheet can always be made to balance by just noting that investments went up $1000 and therefore one must increase Equity by $1000 to make it balance and not enter a transaction.  Or does one put in a transaction debit the Investment asset account $1000 and credit Equity $1000 (same result as above, but with a formal transaction in place on the books)?  Both of these approaches bug the anal-retentive side of me because there is no tie-in to the income statement.  Yes, Assets = Liabilities + Equity as always, but the Equity[this period] = Net Income + Equity[last period] relation no longer holds because the change in investment value is "off the books", as it were. So out in the real world (say at a mutual fund, or a corporation that has a lot of its assets invested in stock, or even something as mundane as an investment club), how is this handled?  Are there income accounts for Investment Gains for which transactions are entered debiting and crediting between it and investment Asset accounts?  Is Investment Gains (if such accounts exist) broken into Realized Gains, Unrealized Gains, and various current income (i.e.  dividends, interest, etc) accounts, all of which are closed into Equity at the end of the various accounting periods?  Or even here are the investment gains and losses left off the income statement but show up on the balance sheet? —

Response:

In accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP) unrealized holding gains/losses should not impact current earning. At the end of any reporting period, changes in market value are reported directly to the equity section of the balance sheet.

Well, since we all that was a big "no no" (you never took things directly to equity but always ran it through income <grin), FASB created the "Statement of Comprehensive Income" that holds many (but not all) such adjustments.  As I recall, "trading" securities do go directly to the P&L statement, while available for sale securities go the route you mentioned (passing through the statement of comprehensive income along the way).

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the info and advice.   I know that I can’t be all things . . .I just need to know which are the important ones. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Just some observations from hanging around airstrips for the last thirty years. Ealier posts were right in that you need the activity to support the airfield.  One of my early mentor did this by encouraging flying clubs or partnerships consisting of four-six people who joinly owned the plane.  He acted as a broker for the memberships so whenever someone was looking to move up, he helped sell their current share and found an appropriate new one.  He had minimal facilities at the strip but cultivated contacts within an hour’s flying time to provide most any service imaginable. The other thing he had going for him was being located about a half hour from a suburb/metro area.  It provided a steady flow of students over time. Another operator specialized in restorations of WWII and earlier ga aircraft.  You’d be surprised at how many inquiries a Kenner Bird or Staggerwing visible from the road will prompt. My current airstrip provides instruction and some sales but always has the coffee pot on.  There is a regular flow of planes but only a few hanger there cause the strip is fairly new and the operator is a cautious sort who wants to see what "flies". In short, don’t try to be all things to all pilots.  Work with the parts that you enjoy ’cause there will be days of lawyers and accountants. I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). Before you buy.

Response:

WHERE????? AND why is there so little organized U/L activity in the west?? Huh? Huh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM How does a clear Pri-Fly Zone of about 600 square miles grab you?  With the aero-rec park a mile from a real airport with great runways, but no tower control zone (suitable for flight-test of homebuilts)? Other features will include non-directional AND directional runways for ULs, gyros, sailplaines etc. Not to mention your choice of several great, CHEAP hotels within 2 miles, self-contained trailer camping or tents and Wingabagos. I am also planning to contact aero-recreation dealers to see if they will come in on this. The primary consideration is simply WILL IT MAKE A PROFIT?  If it looks like I can provide enough services and facilities to bring in the herd while still making enough money to continue development, then it will be a go by spring.

Response:

Keith:  Caution my Compadre, Remember that the established, "real airport", you mention as being a mile away  most likely already has the airspace control reservations it needs. These restrictions on structure height and proximity to other aviation activities will encompass, at a minimum, a 5 mile zone around the existing airfield. You can bet that The airport board (public owned) or corporation (Private, open to public use) has them in place for the future time when it is economically sound to set up the tower/control zone and get federal funds to up grade facilities at the airfield.     This could happen 24 hours after you buy the land and open for business and your then immediately be OUT OF Business. It sadly enough has happened and will happen in the future. There are air parks out there today that did not get the required approvals from the FAA, State AND COUNTY, to protect their needs, that will become extinct in the future.     I am NOT trying to throw cold water on your project. I wish you the best and hope you succeed. An air park has been one of my dreams for quite a few years too.  Be sure to not only touch all the "bases", but be sure you know all the "bases" and Hoops that must be jumped through.  JIM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM How does a clear Pri-Fly Zone of about 600 square miles grab you?  With the aero-rec park a mile from a real airport with great runways, but no tower control zone (suitable for flight-test of homebuilts)? Other features will include non-directional AND directional runways for ULs, gyros, sailplaines etc. Not to mention your choice of several great, CHEAP hotels within 2 miles, self-contained trailer camping or tents and Wingabagos. I am also planning to contact aero-recreation dealers to see if they will come in on this. The primary consideration is simply WILL IT MAKE A PROFIT?  If it looks like I can provide enough services and facilities to bring in the herd while still making enough money to continue development, then it will be a go by spring.

Response:

ALL the luck in the world Keith ! keep us posted.  JIM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith:  Caution my Compadre, Remember that the established, "real airport", you mention as being a mile away  most likely already has the airspace control reservations it needs. This has been dealt with.  There is no conflict. These restrictions on structure height and proximity to other aviation activities will encompass, at a minimum, a 5 mile zone around the existing airfield. You can bet that The airport board (public owned) or corporation (Private, open to public use) has them in place for the future time when it is economically sound to set up the tower/control zone and get federal funds to up grade facilities at the airfield.     This could happen 24 hours after you buy the land and open for business and your then immediately be OUT OF Business. It sadly enough has happened and will happen in the future. There are air parks out there today that did not get the required approvals from the FAA, State AND COUNTY, to protect their needs, that will become extinct in the future. The land belongs to the county and is under the control of the airport manager.  The airport manager likes the idea.     I am NOT trying to throw cold water on your project. I wish you the best and hope you succeed. An air park has been one of my dreams for quite a few years too.  Be sure to not only touch all the "bases", but be sure you know all the "bases" and Hoops that must be jumped through.  JIM The administrative stuff is being taken care of.  This leaves the basic questions — what to put there and whether it will support itself. Thanks for your concerns.

Response:

WHERE?????

Wait for it.  I’m still trying to see if it would support itself, and I don’t even know what all the costs will be for the facility, insurance, etc.   I WILL say that it isn’t in the California desert somewhere (or anywhere in CA, for that matter), but it IS out away from major population areas.   The whole question is whether I can put together something which will draw enough activity from a distance.  There are other (non-aviation) attractions to the area, which will help. AND why is there so little organized U/L activity in the west?? Huh? Huh?

Don’t ask me — I’m trying to organize some.

Response:

Keith:  Caution my Compadre, Remember that the established, "real airport", you mention as being a mile away  most likely already has the airspace control reservations it needs.

This has been dealt with.  There is no conflict. These restrictions on structure height and proximity to other aviation activities will encompass, at a minimum, a 5 mile zone around the existing airfield. You can bet that The airport board (public owned) or corporation (Private, open to public use) has them in place for the future time when it is economically sound to set up the tower/control zone and get federal funds to up grade facilities at the airfield.     This could happen 24 hours after you buy the land and open for business and your then immediately be OUT OF Business. It sadly enough has happened and will happen in the future. There are air parks out there today that did not get the required approvals from the FAA, State AND COUNTY, to protect their needs, that will become extinct in the future.

The land belongs to the county and is under the control of the airport manager.  The airport manager likes the idea.     I am NOT trying to throw cold water on your project. I wish you the best and hope you succeed. An air park has been one of my dreams for quite a few years too.  Be sure to not only touch all the "bases", but be sure you know all the "bases" and Hoops that must be jumped through.  JIM

The administrative stuff is being taken care of.  This leaves the basic questions — what to put there and whether it will support itself. Thanks for your concerns.

Response:

ALL the luck in the world Keith ! keep us posted.  JIM

Trust me, it won’t be a secret.

Response:

I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Good relationships with understanding neighbors, MUST HAVE!!! Good core of students and ultralight aviators that appreciate the value of what you are providing, recognize the delicate balance with your neighbors and local municipal principals, and agree not to do anything stupid to jeopardize that. MUST HAVE!!! Make sure that these points are not overlooked in your equation for the right combination of elements for your air park. Very obvious but easily overlooked issues to also consider… — Bart Gaffney EAA Ultralight Chapter #1  President <http://www.eaaul1.org Wisc. Ultralight/Light Aviation Advisory Counsel  President Vice Chair Ultralight Operations AirVenture ‘99-Oshkosh

Response:

[snip] I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. [snip] Thanks, Keith Wood

Good relationships with understanding neighbors, MUST HAVE!!! Good core of students and ultralight aviators that appreciate the value of what you are providing, recognize the delicate balance with your neighbors and local municipal principals, and agree not to do anything stupid to jeopardize that. MUST HAVE!!! Make sure that these points are not overlooked in your equation for the right combination of elements for your air park. Very obvious but easily overlooked issues to also consider… — Bart Gaffney EAA Ultralight Chapter #1  President <http://www.eaaul1.org Wisc. Ultralight/Light Aviation Advisory Counsel  President Vice Chair Ultralight Operations AirVenture ‘99-Oshkosh

Response:

Well,Keith, I think the matter of interest and participation depends as much on where as who…. I am activly looking for the kind o’ facility as you elude to, but have gone to the : Motorhome and trailerable A/C to get to flying areas. Good luck on ur endevour. Keep us posted. Geoff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WHERE????? Wait for it.  I’m still trying to see if it would support itself, and I don’t even know what all the costs will be for the facility, insurance, etc. I WILL say that it isn’t in the California desert somewhere (or anywhere in CA, for that matter), but it IS out away from major population areas. The whole question is whether I can put together something which will draw enough activity from a distance.  There are other (non-aviation) attractions to the area, which will help. AND why is there so little organized U/L activity in the west?? Huh? Huh? Don’t ask me — I’m trying to organize some.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Response:

Well,Keith, I think the matter of interest and participation depends as much on where as who…. I am activly looking for the kind o’ facility as you elude to, but have gone to the : Motorhome and trailerable A/C to get to flying areas. Good luck on ur endevour. Keep us posted. Geoff.

Well, you will still need the motorhome and trailer — the trick is to make WARP worth your trip. I am still waiting for a firm set of numbers for the leases (one for the flight-test center and one for the air park).  Once I have thme, then I can decide whether to do this. Keith

Response:

Keith:  Just some observations from hanging around airstrips for the last thirty years. Ealier posts were right in that you need the activity to support the airfield.  One of my early mentor did this by encouraging flying clubs or partnerships consisting of four-six people who joinly owned the plane.  He acted as a broker for the memberships so whenever someone was looking to move up, he helped sell their current share and found an appropriate new one.  He had minimal facilities at the strip but cultivated contacts within an hour’s flying time to provide most any service imaginable. The other thing he had going for him was being located about a half hour from a suburb/metro area.  It provided a steady flow of students over time. Another operator specialized in restorations of WWII and earlier ga aircraft.  You’d be surprised at how many inquiries a Kenner Bird or Staggerwing visible from the road will prompt. My current airstrip provides instruction and some sales but always has the coffee pot on.  There is a regular flow of planes but only a few hanger there cause the strip is fairly new and the operator is a cautious sort who wants to see what "flies". In short, don’t try to be all things to all pilots.  Work with the parts that you enjoy ’cause there will be days of lawyers and accountants. I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc).

Before you buy.

Response:

Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Response:

I am looking at the possibility of setting up a center for flight testing of homebuilt planes and for recreational aviation (gyros, ultralights, powered chutes, etc). I am seeking input from a wide range of people as to what services and features a good flight test facility and aero park should have. comments by Must Have, Should Have, Would Like, and Just An Idea. Thanks, Keith Wood

Response:

Keith:  Take a look at Smart Field in St Louis county.  Near St. Charles Mo. It was a ww2 Navy training base. Do not know what is happening there now but it is still in use.  When I flew out of there the landing strip(s) were laid out like an octagon, 16 ways to land.  Perfect for training, test flights, ETC. The killer 180 turn was not a must do most of the time.  The UL airpark will not require as much acreage or as lengthy runways, (Vultee BT-13’s used most of the runway).  I personally believe that a circle just may be the optimum configuration.  Mark the perimeter for a 360 degree threshold and a spot for the center. Of course this presupposes that you can find suitable acreage with the low barriers all the way around.  JIM

How does a clear Pri-Fly Zone of about 600 square miles grab you?  With the aero-rec park a mile from a real airport with great runways, but no tower control zone (suitable for flight-test of homebuilts)?   Other features will include non-directional AND directional runways for ULs, gyros, sailplaines etc. Not to mention your choice of several great, CHEAP hotels within 2 miles, self-contained trailer camping or tents and Wingabagos. I am also planning to contact aero-recreation dealers to see if they will come in on this. The primary consideration is simply WILL IT MAKE A PROFIT?  If it looks like I can provide enough services and facilities to bring in the herd while still making enough money to continue development, then it will be a go by spring.

Response:

Question:

I think what’s needed is just one, single, mega-transaction site which would be no different than Hotmail or anything else on the internet, except that the "users" would be any financial entity such as a person or a company. The MegaTransactionSite would maintain the following table:  Date/Time         The precise date and time the deal was agreed.  TransactionNo     The transaction id number.  UserID-Payor      Any registered user.  UserID-Receiver   Any registered user.

After I posted this I immediately got correctd, that the table needs to have   DataCargo         Any small string upto 50K. such as an XML invoice or PO Somebody else told me,  " http://www.iescrow.com/ –this site is headed in that direction " But that’s not the point.  There are lots of auction settlement escrows and middlemen: http://www.auctionuniverse.com/ bidsafe, and http://www.safebuyer.com/ http://www.tradesafe.com/ http://www.auctionuniverse.com/ http://www.trade-direct.com/ That’s not my point.  They are all pretty involved in the transactions.  What I’m suggesting is becoming a high-speed, secure intercompany journal for the entire world.  Any company could login, post any type of purchase,sale or journal entry to any other company.   My idea would be impractical if you had to have tunneling, secure connectivity with every user or even presume to be secure yourself. What makes it practical is that it’s based on a slow, meticulous after-processing with encrypted timestamps.  This converts the ultra-high-tech internet security problem to become instead, a plodding matter which can be performed by clerks of low intelligence who always win. Kind of like IRS audits of the Withholding tax reported at source. My idea also becomes realistic by the fact that the table itself is a narrow flatfile, which can be immediatly deployed with MySQL or lowend database.  It can be very easily be scaled upwards to infinity, as an ISAM table on any RAID, cluster or mainframe. Note that the huge narrow table is never edited, after written! You would have small tables of open items, not yet closed, but the closed table would be final and read-only except at the bottom of the file where records are added. The security is awesome.  It can only be written by the original process after blessing by the two agreeing parties by PGP email.   And even then, after being posted and becoming READ ONLY, the confirmations are sent. There simply isn’t any weak point on security.  When PGP email is compromised you’ll hear about it in the newspapers.  It hasn’t happend. * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML Accounting Web ledger ASP netledger, web GL Dialtone, whatever.

Response:

This isn’t as secure as you think.  Think about for awhile and I think you will see the flaw.  Granted, it’s pretty strong and would be about as secure as you would need, but there is one small weakness that jumps out… Think about it from different perspectives and I think you will find the flaw very easily.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think what’s needed is just one, single, mega-transaction site which would be no different than Hotmail or anything else on the internet, except that the "users" would be any financial entity such as a person or a company. The MegaTransactionSite would maintain the following table:  Date/Time         The precise date and time the deal was agreed.  TransactionNo     The transaction id number.  UserID-Payor      Any registered user.  UserID-Receiver   Any registered user. After I posted this I immediately got correctd, that the table needs to have   DataCargo         Any small string upto 50K. such as an XML invoice or PO Somebody else told me,  " http://www.iescrow.com/ –this site is headed in that direction " But that’s not the point.  There are lots of auction settlement escrows and middlemen: http://www.auctionuniverse.com/ bidsafe, and http://www.safebuyer.com/ http://www.tradesafe.com/ http://www.auctionuniverse.com/ http://www.trade-direct.com/ That’s not my point.  They are all pretty involved in the transactions.  What I’m suggesting is becoming a high-speed, secure intercompany journal for the entire world.  Any company could login, post any type of purchase,sale or journal entry to any other company. My idea would be impractical if you had to have tunneling, secure connectivity with every user or even presume to be secure yourself. What makes it practical is that it’s based on a slow, meticulous after-processing with encrypted timestamps.  This converts the ultra-high-tech internet security problem to become instead, a plodding matter which can be performed by clerks of low intelligence who always win. Kind of like IRS audits of the Withholding tax reported at source. My idea also becomes realistic by the fact that the table itself is a narrow flatfile, which can be immediatly deployed with MySQL or lowend database.  It can be very easily be scaled upwards to infinity, as an ISAM table on any RAID, cluster or mainframe. Note that the huge narrow table is never edited, after written! You would have small tables of open items, not yet closed, but the closed table would be final and read-only except at the bottom of the file where records are added. The security is awesome.  It can only be written by the original process after blessing by the two agreeing parties by PGP email. And even then, after being posted and becoming READ ONLY, the confirmations are sent. There simply isn’t any weak point on security.  When PGP email is compromised you’ll hear about it in the newspapers.  It hasn’t happend. * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML Accounting Web ledger ASP netledger, web GL Dialtone, whatever.

Response:

This isn’t as secure as you think.  Think about for awhile and I think you will see the flaw.  Granted, it’s pretty strong and would be about as secure as you would need, but there is one small weakness that jumps out… Think about it from different perspectives and I think you will find the flaw very easily.

Well, I’m not going to burn a lot of cycles on an open-ended comment like that, esp. from an anonymous post. Obviously the server would have to have fairly great security if only to protect against denial of service and fifty other kinds of harrassment.   It would also need to keep all its keys and users keys secure.  Probably the hardest problem is the users’ lack of control over their own keys… Nevertheless for closed transactions, stored on readonly devices, it’s hard to imagine very much going wrong. There are certainly much lower risks than realtime financial transactions banging into live, online cash accounts. Todd

Response:

Fortune magazine, December 1998 was bearish on a lot of Silicon Valley trends, especially Accounting ASPs.  They might not be so bearish today… but read on… http://cgi.pathfinder.com/fortune/technology/gurley/1998/12/07/index…. "Looking forward, a market that appears particularly susceptible to the good-idea problem is "outsourced application services." The concept is that enterprise software applications such as those of SAP, PeopleSoft, and Oracle can be run remotely via the Web, and that customers don’t need their own servers or specialized staff to enjoy the benefits of these applications. This is certainly a good idea, but the number of startups attacking this space is remarkable. Most think they can succeed without modifying the prepackaged applications in question. But that may be a problem–these programs were not designed to host multiple companies or scale themselves to millions of users. Service architectures run over the Internet will have to look technically more like the simpler versions run by Yahoo or Amazon rather than the complex configurations that traditionally govern a client-server application. " What do you think?  That’s what matters. I think what’s needed is just one, single, mega-transaction site which would be no different than Hotmail or anything else on the internet, except that the "users" would be any financial entity such as a person or a company. The MegaTransactionSite would maintain the following table:   Date/Time         The precise date and time the deal was agreed.   TransactionNo     The transaction id number.   UserID-Payor      Any registered user.   UserID-Receiver   Any registered user. When you login, you have to login to an SSL connection.  The site requires long complex passwords.  They might have some additional feature like reverse DNS, etc. etc. or perhaps not. Anybody could post a request to pay somebody or a request to be paid by somebody.  Then you logoff. Pretty soon comes a PGP message from the MegaTransactionSite by email, sent to you and the other guy.  If you both agree and send a 128-bit encrypted reply back to the MegaTransactionSite it wuld be posted, and send another PGP message back to you, containing the precise instant it was posted, and the TransactionNo. That is all it would do.  <g Then, just stand back and watch the fireworks.   You could use this as a "good enough" data backbone for all kinds of stuff….. * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML Accounting Web ledger ASP netledger, web GL Dialtone, whatever. -Todd * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML Accounting Web ledger ASP netledger, web GL Dialtone, whatever.

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Question:

Apart from problem solving, surely there’s a lot of interest in what different softwares can do? From this side of the pond I’d only be interested in US software which

can record the date the right way round (DDMMYY and handle multi-currencies. Forgive the cynisism, but: Most of the traffic in this newsgroup is problem solving.  

snip

Response:

I like that.  I think that is the first response that is acurate precise and without and bias on this entire newsgroup. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forgive the cynisism, but: Most of the traffic in this newsgroup is problem solving.  When you buy your accounting software at the local department store then find out its support is lacking, you look to the newsgroups.  When you spend _CONSIDERABLY_ more money and find that support is lacking, you a) beat on your reseller, b) beat on the vendor, d) have your lawyer call, or c) all of the above. This ng carries a lot of comment on Peachtree and Quickbooks. Doesn’t anybody work with Baan, SAP, Oracle, etc? Roger Standing Endless Fine Art –  horseracing prints http://www.findit.co.uk/uk/pictures.htm —         -jp      * Remove  the NOSPAM if you are *      * trying to send Email          *

– The Dragon (503)663-2000

Response:

This ng carries a lot of comment on Peachtree and Quickbooks. Doesn’t anybody work with Baan, SAP, Oracle, etc? Roger Standing Endless Fine Art –  horseracing prints http://www.findit.co.uk/uk/pictures.htm

Response:

There are several SAP/Baan/Peopesoft/Oracle, etc newsgroups out there. This news group in primarily used by small business. — Paul MacFarlane American Riviera Software http://www.business-plaza.com http://www.sb.net/amerisft/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This ng carries a lot of comment on Peachtree and Quickbooks. Doesn’t anybody work with Baan, SAP, Oracle, etc? Roger Standing Endless Fine Art –  horseracing prints http://www.findit.co.uk/uk/pictures.htm

Response:

The only reason there is so much rhetoric is due to the thread I have going which contains a lot of useless information from Mike Block have going.         But, I am also a user of Oracle at my employment of OmniSource Corporation.  I am also well verse in the suites from Corel, Microsoft, and Lotus including their databases.         The others you have listed I am unfamier with. This ng carries a lot of comment on Peachtree and Quickbooks. Doesn’t anybody work with Baan, SAP, Oracle, etc? Roger Standing Endless Fine Art –  horseracing prints http://www.findit.co.uk/uk/pictures.htm

– Covey Accounting Service, L.L.C. http://user.centralnet.net/dcovey Your off site CFO for your accounting  & software  needs in the Fort Wayne, IN area.

Response:

There are several SAP/Baan/Peopesoft/Oracle, etc newsgroups out there. This news group in primarily used by small business.

Then maybe it should be renamed Quickbooks and Peachtree. I would have expected that if this ng were to be used by qualified accountants, then surely they would be from all business sizes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Paul MacFarlane American Riviera Software http://www.business-plaza.com http://www.sb.net/amerisft/ This ng carries a lot of comment on Peachtree and Quickbooks. Doesn’t anybody work with Baan, SAP, Oracle, etc? Roger Standing

Response:

Forgive the cynisism, but: Most of the traffic in this newsgroup is problem solving.  When you buy your accounting software at the local department store then find out its support is lacking, you look to the newsgroups.  When you spend _CONSIDERABLY_ more money and find that support is lacking, you a) beat on your reseller, b) beat on the vendor, d) have your lawyer call, or c) all of the above. This ng carries a lot of comment on Peachtree and Quickbooks. Doesn’t anybody work with Baan, SAP, Oracle, etc? Roger Standing Endless Fine Art –  horseracing prints http://www.findit.co.uk/uk/pictures.htm

–         -jp      * Remove  the NOSPAM if you are *        * trying to send Email          *

Response:

Question:

I’m trying to negotiate the price my company will pay for the Platinum SQL software.  Anyone purchase any of the client server aps in the last year?  Know of any deals done for the software?

Response:

While the company I work for does not sell Platinum, we do have experience in this realm.  I know for a fact that Platinum has discounted their software in the past to get the sale and I am sure they will do it in the future.  If it is the application you want, you really have nothing to lose by trying to negotiate a deal. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to negotiate the price my company will pay for the Platinum SQL software.  Anyone purchase any of the client server aps in the last year?  Know of any deals done for the software?

Response:

I’m trying to negotiate the price my company will pay for the Platinum SQL software.  Anyone purchase any of the client server aps in the last year?  Know of any deals done for the software?

I sell and support a system that competes with Platinum, so I have no direct interest in your situation.  However, if you are concerned about a "DEAL" your emphasis is on the wrong issue.  Your relationship with the VAR that installs and supports Platinum is far more important than any $$$ that you may save by shopping around.  Anyone who sells at a discounted price to get your order will not have your company’s interest at heart.   Your company will spend many times more than the software and hardware cost in paying for the time of your own people in its operation and implementation.  If the implementation is not smooth and your people trained well, any savings from your "DEAL" will be quickly wiped out. The financial well-being of your company could even suffer substantially if the conversion does not go well. — John Mosier,  excelco    voice: (800) 553-6911      fax: (602) 992-2026 2990 E. Northern, B-101  voice: (602) 992-8076 Phoenix, AZ 85028        http://excelco.com/ Accounting System Selector

Response:

Question:

Fuck the fighting back, it’s about time California put those multiculturalists in their place.  I hope the other 49 states learn a lesson and implement it also.  America is one society, where all acheievement should be based on personal merit, not race or gender.  That is defined as racism.  It should not be allowed, ever.

Response:

**Fightback begins vs California Prop. 209** (Reprinted from the November 16, 1996 issue of the People’s Weekly World. May be reprinted or reposted with PWW credit. For subscription information see below) By Marilyn Bechtel OAKLAND, CA – Following passage of anti-affirmative action Prop. 209 in last week’s election, civil rights, labor and community organizations are challenging the measure in court. At the same time, cities where 209 was defeated are vowing to keep their affirmative action programs. The day after the election, a statewide coalition of civil rights, labor, education and business organizations and individuals mounted a powerful legal challenge in U.S. District Court to block implementation of the measure. ACLU chapters in Southern and Northern California, the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights and the Employment Law Center were joined by the California Labor Federation, California NAACP, the NOW Legal Defense & Education Fund, the Asian Pacific-American Legal Center and other organizations and individuals. The suit charges that 209 violates the Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause because minorities and women are barred from seeking protective race- or gender-conscious legislation while other groups are free to seek preferential treatment, Eva Paterson, executive director of the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights, told the World. She said the suit also states that 209 violates federal civil rights laws. Paterson said formation of "a wonderful broad coalition" – multiracial, multinational, men and women, young and old, to fight the measure before and after Election Day shows that "the racial wedge did not work." In Los Angeles County, 209 was defeated by a 55 to 45 percent margin. The Los Angeles City Council strongly opposed the initiative from the beginning. In the after math of the election, council members said they would not change any of the city’s affirmative action programs and that the city would have to be sued to mandate enforcement. "Clearly the vote in Los Angeles County, and in the city itself which was 60 percent against 209, shows the tremendous amount of organizing here has paid off," said Joselito Laudencia, Southern California Director, Californians for Justice. Laudencia said the Metropolitan Alliance, which spearheaded area grassroots anti-209 work, united different communities that had not previously worked together in a struggle that "sparked a new civil rights movement in California." San Francisco County voters rejected Prop. 209 by a whopping 71 to 29 percent. Alameda, San Mateo, Santa Cruz and Marin Counties also rejected the measure by substantial margins, while in Santa Clara County the vote was still too close to call. In San Jose, where voters turned down Prop. 209 by a 51 to 49 percent margin, City Attorney Joan Gallo told the City Council last week that the city’s affirmative action plan "does not provide preferences but has been designed to encourage outreach and to demonstrate that there has been no discrimination." Based on the Third District Court of Appeals’ statement last summer that Prop. 209 does not bar outreach programs, Gallo proposed modifying the present program. The new proposal would involve setting a percentage of women and minority subcontractors likely to be part of a bid package in the absence of discrimination or preference, based on the number of such firms in the area. Contractors failing to hire the specified percentage would have to show they had neither discriminated nor given impermissable preferences. Gallo told the World she believes minority and women contractors will be hired because they give good service and are competitive. Banning preferences "cuts into the tendency to contract with people you know," she said. "We believe we should be opening doors." The council, which strongly opposes 209, was expected to consider Gallo’s proposal later this month. Meanwhile, hundreds of University of California students marched and demonstrated to protest 209’s passage and the UC president’s statement that campus chancellors should implement the measure immediately. The University of California Student Association said demonstrations would continue, leading to statewide walkouts the week of Dec. 6. In Washington, following calls for action by the Rev. Jesse Jackson and women’s movement leader Eleanor Smeal, the Clinton administration said at the end of last week it was considering either filing its own lawsuit or joining the suit already filed. Jackson called 209 "a classic state’s rights act challenging federal authority." He praised President Clinton for opposing the measure during his campaign, but emphasized that more than talk is needed now. Prop. 209’s backers paid millions of dollars for its passage. Another example of huge spending by the ultra-right was the campaign which overwhelmingly defeated labor- and community-backed Prop. 211 to protect retirement savings from fraud. Corporations headed by accounting, insurance and Silicon Valley firms and the New York Stock Exchange gave nearly $40 million to sink it. ##30##        ****  235 W. 23rd St. NYC 10011      ***      *   **    ****   *  $20/yr – $1-2 mos trial sub    *  ****    * Tired of the same old system: Join the Communist Party, USA            http://www.hartford-hwp.com/cp-usa

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