Question:

Sherry  wrote Happens to *all* of us. Sometimes the fingers are flying faster than the brain I keep doing this weird thing, using "their" instead of "they’re" or "there." I was a proofreader for years and can’t believe I do this. It used to be one of my biggest pet peeves. I do a lot of proofreading in my work, and I’m pretty anal about my spelling, but even I, perfect as I am ;o) , sometimes miss a spelling mistake.

And theirs know accounting for some spelling errers ether.  If the words in the spell checker, it’ll pas.  My favorite example is the your/you’re swap.  As in: 1)  Your post is dumb. 2)  You’re dumb as a post. Reguards and Purse, O J

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I could never understand why people seem to love correcting others.  Perhaps it lends them some sense of superiority that’s sorely lacking in their interactions w/others around them.

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I could never understand why people seem to love correcting others. Perhaps it lends them some sense of superiority that’s sorely lacking in their interactions w/others around them.

With me, it’s because although I really do try not to correct spelling and grammar on Usenet, it actually HURTS me to see mistakes. I would never publicly comment, but I’m often tempted to drop someone a private email to point out a recurring error. Of course, I don’t. It’s a ‘thing’. My view of people is coloured by the way they use language. If they are sloppy and undisciplined in their use of language, I have less respect for their opinions. That may be my problem rather than the other person’s, but it’s the way I am. Jeanette

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Happens to *all* of us. Sometimes the fingers are flying faster than the brain I keep doing this weird thing, using "their" instead of "they’re" or "there." I was a proofreader for years and can’t believe I do this. It used to be one of my biggest pet peeves. I do a lot of proofreading in my work, and I’m pretty anal about my spelling, but even I, perfect as I am ;o) , sometimes miss a spelling mistake.

Also, there is a law of nature that says it is easier to spot someone else’s mistake than your own mistake, because, when you do your own proofreading, you tend to see what you intended to say, not necessarily what you actually said. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBQR5qOjMYPge5L34aEQL40wCguEYynW1dYcS2BRInHX/t+vHRjnsAn0+b H+WgGqc9G2AjtXPV5RQkzQS2 =kVT4 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." — Hypatia of Alexandria

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I could never understand why people seem to love correcting others. Perhaps it lends them some sense of superiority that’s sorely lacking in their interactions w/others around them. With me, it’s because although I really do try not to correct spelling and grammar on Usenet, it actually HURTS me to see mistakes. I would never publicly comment, but I’m often tempted to drop someone a private email to point out a recurring error. Of course, I don’t. It’s a ‘thing’. My view of people is coloured by the way they use language. If they are sloppy and undisciplined in their use of language, I have less respect for their opinions. That may be my problem rather than the other person’s, but it’s the way I am. Jeanette

See http://www.w00t-comic.net/20021217.html, and note the cartoonist’s comments at the bottom of the web page. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBQR5qzjMYPge5L34aEQKxTgCdFAT8UCSN34EB+Kz2/zZAsw6DIMUAnjec 9RUpYzbP54uKDiqos95M9Tv6 =gVO4 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." — Hypatia of Alexandria

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See http://www.w00t-comic.net/20021217.html, and note the cartoonist’s comments at the bottom of the web page.

tHATS SOfunny. Hey, I’m the one who got annoyed at ‘Eats Shoots and Leaves’ because I heard the original (ruder) version of the joke on this very newsgroup. Jeanette

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It’s a ‘thing’. My view of people is coloured by the way they use language. If they are sloppy and undisciplined in their use of language, I have less respect for their opinions.

  That reminds me – it’s time again to catch up on the latest "Bushisms" site.    jbh

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Also, there is a law of nature that says it is easier to spot someone else’s mistake than your own mistake, because, when you do your own proofreading, you tend to see what you intended to say, not necessarily what you actually said.

Boy that’s the truth. It’s a weird phenomenon. I can’t spot my own errors even if they’re in 72 point headlines. I don’t correct anybody’s mistakes on posts, unless I’m responding to a spell-flamer Sherry

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Also, there is a law of nature that says it is easier to spot someone else’s mistake than your own mistake, because, when you do your own proofreading, you tend to see what you intended to say, not necessarily what you actually said.

That’s certainly true for me!  No matter how carefully I proofread, my dyslexic fingers often throw in a few misspellings.  (Word processing programs were MADE for people like me – at least one can correct errors without typing the whole THING over again!) However, it might have been nice if Allegra had paid a little attention to the intended helpful advice, rather than getting hung up on our pointing out her "misspelled" word!

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See http://www.w00t-comic.net/20021217.html, and note the cartoonist’s comments at the bottom of the web page.

ROFL! — Marina, Frank and Nikki Email marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frankiennikki

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Also, there is a law of nature that says it is easier to spot someone else’s mistake than your own mistake, because, when you do your own proofreading, you tend to see what you intended to say, not necessarily what you actually said. Boy that’s the truth. It’s a weird phenomenon. I can’t spot my own errors even if they’re in 72 point headlines. I don’t correct anybody’s mistakes on posts, unless I’m responding to a spell-flamer Sherry

I can’t proofread.  My own stuff or anyone else’s for that matter.  My mind insists on seeing it as correct even if it isn’t.  I’m bad enough with spell checker and hopeless without it.  (I also cannot spell) One trick a former employer tried to teach me was to read backwards.  It helped some with proofreading, but given my inability to spell didn’t help much. Jo

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Please don’t feed the trolls. PixieDust413 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I could never understand why people seem to love correcting others. Perhaps it lends them some sense of superiority that’s sorely lacking in their interactions w/others around them.

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I could never understand why people seem to love correcting others.  Perhaps it lends them some sense of superiority that’s sorely lacking in their interactions w/others around them.

I’m coming to this late.  As far as I know, I haven’t encountered anyone in this newsgroup who "loves" correcting others, and the peple who corected you didn’t do it in a particularly nasty way.  Correcting others isn’t necessarily an act of hostility either.  It can be viewed as trying to be helpful.   There are times when mispellings can cause serious misunderstandings.   Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

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Correcting others isn’t necessarily an act of hostility either.  It can be viewed as trying to be helpful.   There are times when mispellings can cause serious misunderstandings.

Lol … as far as I’m concerned, anyone who’d name their pet "stinky" needs considerably more help than myself.

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Correcting others isn’t necessarily an act of hostility either.  It can be viewed as trying to be helpful.   There are times when mispellings can cause serious misunderstandings. Lol … as far as I’m concerned, anyone who’d name their pet "stinky" needs considerably more help than myself.

Please play nice in here.  We love each other and everyone’s cats.  It hurts me when someone makes fun of another person for any reason. Pam S.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Correcting others isn’t necessarily an act of hostility either.  It can be viewed as trying to be helpful.   There are times when mispellings can cause serious misunderstandings. Lol … as far as I’m concerned, anyone who’d name their pet "stinky" needs considerably more help than myself. Please play nice in here.  We love each other and everyone’s cats.  It hurts me when someone makes fun of another person for any reason. Pam S.

What Pam said. Sherry

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Correcting others isn’t necessarily an act of hostility either.  It can be viewed as trying to be helpful.   There are times when mispellings can cause serious misunderstandings. Lol … as far as I’m concerned, anyone who’d name their pet "stinky" needs considerably more help than myself.

Stinky was one of my Mike’s many nicknames – it was basically shorthand for Little Stinker, which is what he was most of the time. I think Stinky is a cute name. —— Krista

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My Vera is spade.  That’s right, spade.  Yet, just two days ago, while talking on the phone indoors, I heard the most blood-curling caterwauling imaginable going on outside.  Rush outdoors to find Vera and the local tomcat that’s been hanging around for months now in a most compromising position.  Just hours after running the stud-muffin off (later that evening) she began acting so strange: cozying up to me like never before, sleeping in dark places she’s never slept before, acting intensely listless when she was awake, etc.  This behavior hasn’t changed in two days.  First off, I was completely unaware that once a female cat has been spade they still engage in lusty encounters with males.  Secondly, as a result of this ignorance, I never figured she needed her feline aids shot.  Now I’m worried sick.  The vet says it could take three months before I know for sure she’s fine.  Also, since I don’t know who the owner of this cat is, I don’t know what to do to prevent this from ever happening again, to her or to her sister Lola.  Anyone with any advice … please?  

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My Vera is spade.  That’s right, spade.  Yet, just two days ago, while talking on the phone indoors, I heard the most blood-curling caterwauling imaginable going on outside.  Rush outdoors to find Vera and the local tomcat that’s been hanging around for months now in a most compromising position.  Just hours after running the stud-muffin off (later that evening) she began acting so strange: cozying up to me like never before, sleeping in dark places she’s never slept before, acting intensely listless when she was awake, etc.  This behavior hasn’t changed in two days.  First off, I was completely unaware that once a female cat has been spade they still engage in lusty encounters with males.  Secondly, as a result of this ignorance, I never figured she needed her feline aids shot. Now I’m worried sick.  The vet says it could take three months before I know for sure she’s fine.  Also, since I don’t know who the owner of this cat is, I don’t know what to do to prevent this from ever happening again, to her or to her sister Lola.  Anyone with any advice … please?  

You might want to have a vet make sure that she was successfully spayed (note the spelling; a spade is a type of shovel).  I have never seen signs of a female cat going back into heat after being spayed.  Tomcats, on the other hand, sometimes retain an interest in sex even after having been neutered. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBQRs8UzMYPge5L34aEQKYuQCgt3s+My++i5HEeCAGxV9xdRGbmqQAoOob MzcGFw+VQG4vZwHloxxN1SBA =ifjo —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." — Hypatia of Alexandria

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 Tomcats, on the other hand, sometimes retain an interest in sex even after having been neutered.

   When I’ve had our males neutered, the vets told me there are two kinds of neutering.  One type destroys the urge completely, the other leaves their interest intact but not the ability to reproduce.  I haven’t delved into the hows, whys, or wherefors but, needless to say, I chose the total job.  Actually, though, I’ve only had two males; all others have been little girls.    Jeanne

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behavior hasn’t changed in two days.  First off, I was completely unaware that once a female cat has been spade

Errrr… I think you mean "spayed", don’t you? they still engage in lusty encounters with males.

They DON’T!  Did you actually arrange for her operation yourself, or did the person from whom you got her simply TELL you she’d been altered? Reason I ask is because my first female cat was supposedly altered, too.   However, there’s no mistaking the antics of a female cat in heat, even if you’ve never seen it before.  (And if she gets "satisfaction", it’s a fair bet she ends up with incipient kittens.)  Secondly, as a result of this ignorance, I never figured she needed her feline aids shot.

Is AIDS a sexually transmitted disease in cats?  I thought it was far easier to catch.    Now I’m worried sick.  The vet says it could take three months before I know for sure she’s fine.  Also, since I don’t know who the owner of this cat is, I don’t know what to do to prevent this from ever happening again, to her or to her sister Lola.  Anyone with any advice … please?

After Vera has her kittens, I suggest you take BOTH of them to a vet, and make SURE they’ve been spayed, next time.  If you got them from a shelter, whoever turned them in may have lied about them being "fixed" – I don’t imagine a shelter’s veterinary staff has time to examine every incoming female cat to make sure.

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You might want to have a vet make sure that she was successfully spayed (note the spelling; a spade is a type of shovel).  I have never seen signs of a female cat going back into heat after being spayed.  Tomcats, on the other hand, sometimes retain an interest in sex even after having been neutered.

And it takes several weeks before their urine loses that pungent "tomcat" odor!

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Thanks so much to those who corrected me on the word "spade."  Must say, it was actually a ditzy mistake, written by someone who’s in a complete tizzy over her kitty’s health.  Believe it or not, I do know that "spade" is a shovel and "spayed" is a procedure performed by a vet.  Still, thanks to everyone who was quick to point out my error, as irrelevant as it was to the main gist of my posting.   All the best, Tracy

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Thanks so much to those who corrected me on the word "spade."  Must say, it was actually a ditzy mistake, written by someone who’s in a complete tizzy over her kitty’s health.  Believe it or not, I do know that "spade" is a shovel and "spayed" is a procedure performed by a vet.  Still, thanks to everyone who was quick to point out my error, as irrelevant as it was to the main gist of my posting.   All the best, Tracy

Happens to *all* of us. Sometimes the fingers are flying faster than the brain I keep doing this weird thing, using "their" instead of "they’re" or "there." I was a proofreader for years and can’t believe I do this. It used to be one of my biggest pet peeves.

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Happens to *all* of us. Sometimes the fingers are flying faster than the brain I keep doing this weird thing, using "their" instead of "they’re" or "there." I was a proofreader for years and can’t believe I do this. It used to be one of my biggest pet peeves.

I do a lot of proofreading in my work, and I’m pretty anal about my spelling, but even I, perfect as I am ;o) , sometimes miss a spelling mistake. — Marina, Frank and Nikki Email marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frankiennikki

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like Wal-Mart. No union. http://www.unicefusa.org/childlabor/end.html "Perhaps you splurged on a handcrafted carpet, without knowing it was made by a seven-year-old from India, where children are chained to looms for 12 hours a day. Maybe you just bought a soccer ball for your son or daughter, without realizing your gift was produced by five-year-old hands inside a dark and silent factory in Pakistan. Even your more mundane purchases — a leather bag, a shirt, a pair of jeans, or produce from the local grocery store could be the product of child labor. Around the world today, some 250 million boys and girls between the ages of five and 14 are exploited in hazardous work conditions, according to the International Labour Organization. Most of these children live in the developing world, but even in industrialized countries such as the United States, hundreds of thousands of underage boys and girls are at work in sweatshops, farm fields, brothels and on the street." Yeah, unions are really evil.

Are there any stores like Walmart that do not carry items made in this manner? Marsha/Ohio

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Jobs of all kinds have been going off-shore since the late 50’s. First to go was the toy industry, Except for Hamilton, all the other American watch-makers have left. In the end, if the Govt allows them, and in many cases, encourages companies to move 0ff shore they will go, I don’t think it is Wal-Mart’s fault. When I was a child and shopped for toys at WOOLCO or ZAYRES or GRANTS or KMART the stuff in those days was branded made in HONG KONG, JAPAN, TAIWAN, OR SOUTH KOREA. Now it is China, I imagine 15 years from now everything Wal-Mart carries will be made in India. They are just trying to survive in business and doing what they must do. In the end most of these so called manufacturing jobs would have vanished by automation had the factories remained here. In so far as the tech jobs going overseas, I used to work in the field back in 1999-2000 and I, along with many friends have seen our careers implode when the tech economy crashed along with the rest of the economy in late 2000. I don’t know where we go from here but PEROT style economic policies have proven a failure in every place they have been implemented. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I made out like a bandit at the Wal Mart Supercenter’s grocery. Grabbed loads of the Atkins pancake, corn bread, and brownies for like $2.20 each. They had lots of Carbolite suff for half off. Check your Wal-Mart is one place you don’t want to shop at. They are one of the reasons jobs are going over seas – Wal mart forces companies to close US manufacturing facilities and open them up over seas just to keep up.

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YOU get the facts please.  There are nearly 100 unskilled,simple country folks working at the super WalMart next door to where I work in Emporia, VA. They make above minimum wage and have health insurance and other benefits. These people would not have jobs if it were not for WalMart.  Many were able to get out of the welfare/Medicaid cycle when the Walmart opened and provided all these jobs and benefits.

I’m not saying you are wrong, but I would be interested in seeing answers to some of these questions: Of these nearly 100 simple country folk, how many: work full time vs. part time at Walmart? actually have health insurance? were out of work before this Walmart opened? were on welfare/Medicaid before this Walmart opened? Do you have answers to these questions, or is this just mere conjecture on your part? Even if, by some incredible stretch of the imagination, your statements were true, this is only one store and does not tell the whole Walmart story. http://edworkforce.house.gov/democrats/releases/rel21604.html New Report Details Wal-Mart’s Labor Abuses and Hidden Costs Unaffordable and unavailable healthcare. While 66 percent of employees at large firms like Wal-Mart receive health benefits from their employer, only 41 to 46 percent of Wal-Mart employees do. In 2002, Wal-Mart adopted new policies that force employees to wait longer before having enough tenure to qualify for benefits. Wal-Mart has also shifted more of the cost for health care premiums onto its workers. Wal-Mart even encourages its employees to seek charitable and public assistance for meeting their health care needs. A UC-Berkeley study found that California taxpayers subsidized $20.5 million worth of medical care in that state alone. http://www.flagstaffactivist.org/campaigns/walmyths.html Studies show that for every two jobs created by a Wal-Mart store, the community loses three. Jobs that are retained by a community are merely shifted from local businesses to the giant retailer. In a 1994 report, the Congressional Research Service warned Congress that communities need to evaluate the significance of any job gains at big-box stores against any loss of jobs due to reduced business at competing retailers. The report also pointed out that these so-called new jobs "provide significantly lower wages then jobs in many industries, and are often only part-time positions, seasonal opportunities, or subject to extensive turnover."

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So what?  We live in a global economy.  If you choose a carreer in manufacturing, it’s your own fault if you lose your job to an overseas workers.  

If you think manufacturing jobs are the only ones being outsourced your head is in the sand. And its shortsighted to blame those who work in manufactoring for their own job insecurity. What about all the other industries? Are those workers at fault too? Pretty soon it will be tougher than ever to find any job/career that doesn’t require hands on contact without it being at risk for outsourcing. With the advent of the computer and the decrease in long distance costs it becomes easier every day to have the work done where labor is cheaper. Many corporations including banks, financial institutions and insurance companies are already storing their databases overseas and hiring the people to update them in those other countries. My DIL works for ATT wireless or she did before it was bought out recently – now I guess its Cingulair. She says most of the calls you make to their help desk are answered in India. The list is huge. Have you ever watched Lou Dobbs on the subject?

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Um, Pat, you’ve already made your ultra-right wing views clear in other posts.   I would say it is you who don’t let facts affect you.  You obviously don’t understand that it is the U.S. government’s lopsided NAFTA trade agreement that is making it easy for many American companies to outsource manufacturing jobs overseas, and that’s is giving us a very poor international balance of trade.  If your president would make it more feasible to keep jobs here instead, maybe these companies wouldn’t have to outsource to make their profit.  You can help change it  –  instead of boycotting WalMart (I assume you’re boycotting the other thousands of companies outsourcing?  BTW, are you using any Microsoft software?…  if so, you’re a damned hypocrite) — why not simply vote for a different president this November?

Supporting the war on terror and the war in Iraq makes me ultra-right wing?  Only in your ultra-liberal but claiming to be libertarian mind. NAFTA has nothing to do with Walmart’s exploitation of workers in China and other foreign countries. Walmart does not "have" to ship jobs overseas; they do it because they can make even greater profits by exploiting workers in countries that do not provide adequate protections for their citizens. Having said that, I do believe NAFTA was a mistake and should be rescinded. How’s that for ultra-right wing? IAC, applauding Walmart while bashing the President for "exporting our jobs to foreign countries" is a classic example of your own hypocrisy. BTW, I don’t blame you for deciding you don’t want your posts archived.  I wouldn’t want my posts archived either if they were the kind of irrational ramblings you post.

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I for one *love* WalMart! Get the facts before saying you love wal-mart. See how many jobs went overseas vs. how many wal-mart created.

He does not little little things like facts affect him.  What is really ironic is that he has the nerve to criticize the President for "exporting our jobs to foreign countries" while claiming he *loves* Walmart.  Totally irrational.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-archive: yes | | I know I shouldn’t go there, but I will because this is perhaps one of | my biggest dislikes:  Our "friend" WalMart. <snip There’s a certain segment of the population that hates to see free enterprise and capitalism work as it’s intended to.  The same people that hate WalMart are usually so jealous of Microsoft’s success that they can’t stand it. I feel that a company that built what is now a global retail enterprise by backing their slogan "Always Low Prices" does a tremendous service to the vast majority of people who can’t afford to shop on 5th Avenue.  Walmart has a wonderful variety of products at a reasonable price.    They also provide a huge job base for many people —  especially older and disabled workers — who would otherwise be unemployable. Sam Walton was an entrepreneurial genius and groundbreaker.  His philosophy towards his employees all being "associates" of the company, making them feel part of something big and getting them excited about their job has been adopted by many of the most successful companies as their own personnel model.  The company I work for, Marriott, is one of them. I’ve read the "Walmart Sucks" bulletin board in the past; it’s a bunch of disgruntled former employees who couldn’t hack following the rules, failed at their jobs and want  to blame the company.  It’s these former employees with their crappy attitudes and lazy-ass work ethics who "suck," not WalMart. I for one *love* WalMart! Of course, I can’t make a post like this without adding that this is IMHO. Many others may have a different viewpoint, and I hope we can agree to disagree with mutual respect. | — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo Get the facts before saying you love wal-mart. See how many jobs went overseas vs. how many wal-mart created.

So what?  We live in a global economy.  If you choose a carreer in manufacturing, it’s your own fault if you lose your job to an overseas workers.  Look what happened to textile jobs during the industrial revolutuion in the northern states: companies found it cheaper to ship those jobs to the south, so people in the north had to get industrial jobs, which ended up paying more, which made the north the industrial leader, and improved the northern economy tremendously.  Someone choosing a carreer in manufacturing these days makes about as much sense as choosing to run a horse and buggy store.  Imagine if I opened a small business, and the only way my business could survive was by outsourcing some of the work to an overseas company. If I were not allowed to do that I would not have my business, and anyone I was going to employ locally (such as retail sales people, truckers to ship my products, accountants to handle my taxes) would not have a job with me.  If I am allowed to outsource, then I can afford to run my business, and I can afford to hire local people for the local jobs. — Michelle Levin http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick I have only 3 flaws.  My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

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I made out like a bandit at the Wal Mart Supercenter’s grocery. Grabbed loads of the Atkins pancake, corn bread, and brownies for like $2.20 each. They had lots of Carbolite suff for half off. Check your

Wal-Mart is one place you don’t want to shop at. They are one of the reasons jobs are going over seas – Wal mart forces companies to close US manufacturing facilities and open them up over seas just to keep up.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-archive: yes | | I know I shouldn’t go there, but I will because this is perhaps one of | my biggest dislikes:  Our "friend" WalMart. <snip There’s a certain segment of the population that hates to see free enterprise and capitalism work as it’s intended to.  The same people that hate WalMart are usually so jealous of Microsoft’s success that they can’t stand it. I feel that a company that built what is now a global retail enterprise by backing their slogan "Always Low Prices" does a tremendous service to the vast majority of people who can’t afford to shop on 5th Avenue.  Walmart has a wonderful variety of products at a reasonable price.    They also provide a huge job base for many people —  especially older and disabled workers — who would otherwise be unemployable. Sam Walton was an entrepreneurial genius and groundbreaker.  His philosophy towards his employees all being "associates" of the company, making them feel part of something big and getting them excited about their job has been adopted by many of the most successful companies as their own personnel model.  The company I work for, Marriott, is one of them. I’ve read the "Walmart Sucks" bulletin board in the past; it’s a bunch of disgruntled former employees who couldn’t hack following the rules, failed at their jobs and want  to blame the company.  It’s these former employees with their crappy attitudes and lazy-ass work ethics who "suck," not WalMart. I for one *love* WalMart! Of course, I can’t make a post like this without adding that this is IMHO. Many others may have a different viewpoint, and I hope we can agree to disagree with mutual respect. | — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Get the facts before saying you love wal-mart. See how many jobs went overseas vs. how many wal-mart created.

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What a surprise that a fat hypochondriac doesn’t like to work. You are a great example for your children. The state should take them away.

What a surprise your comments did not bother me. I know what is the truth and what is not. You did not cause me to feel ashamed or guilty whatsoever. Better luck next time.

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Not to fan the flames or anything, but before Walmart rolled out the Low Prices, Always slogan wasnt their slogan Made In America or something along thoose line. This was several years ago of course. Could very well just be confused with another retalier

It was Wal*Mart that had the made in america slogan, it was about 10 years ago.  At the time I was working for Daisy Kingdom, and the owner worked very hard to get her ready-made dresses as well as yard goods into those stores.  The requirement at that time for a product to be sold at Walmart was that 10% of the product had to be produced in a foctory here.  Because the dresses were made in the Phillipines, she made a mini sweatshop on the top floor of the building and staffed it with non-english speaking machine operators who turned out a few hundred dresses a week. None of the above applies to yard goods.  The DK fabrics were from Canada, and most textiles come from abroad so it would have been very difficult to have any kind of comprehensive fabric department stocked only with domestic goods. Back to the dresses, I worked on the retail floor and I remeber how we used to explain the tags on the dresses to confused customers.  The tags read "Daisy Kingdon USA" and when questioned about it we were to tell them that they were *designed* in the USA – upstairs, in fact. brigid

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I made out like a bandit at the Wal Mart Supercenter’s grocery. Grabbed loads of the Atkins pancake, corn bread, and brownies for like $2.20 each. They had lots of Carbolite suff for half off. Check your

Good deal. I don’t buy those things, but I’ll be sure to check out what they have and maybe try a few things. I like Wal-Mart. No union.

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Thanks for letting us know you changed your position. Y’all still don’t recognize sarcasm? perhaps you don’t either.

Ya think?

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I like Wal-Mart. No union.

http://www.unicefusa.org/childlabor/end.html "Perhaps you splurged on a handcrafted carpet, without knowing it was made by a seven-year-old from India, where children are chained to looms for 12 hours a day. Maybe you just bought a soccer ball for your son or daughter, without realizing your gift was produced by five-year-old hands inside a dark and silent factory in Pakistan. Even your more mundane purchases — a leather bag, a shirt, a pair of jeans, or produce from the local grocery store could be the product of child labor. Around the world today, some 250 million boys and girls between the ages of five and 14 are exploited in hazardous work conditions, according to the International Labour Organization. Most of these children live in the developing world, but even in industrialized countries such as the United States, hundreds of thousands of underage boys and girls are at work in sweatshops, farm fields, brothels and on the street." Yeah, unions are really evil.

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Not to fan the flames or anything, but before Walmart rolled out the Low Prices, Always slogan wasnt their slogan Made In America or something along thoose line. This was several years ago of course. Could very well just be confused with another retalier

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-archive: yes | | I know I shouldn’t go there, but I will because this is perhaps one of | my biggest dislikes:  Our "friend" WalMart. <snip There’s a certain segment of the population that hates to see free enterprise and capitalism work as it’s intended to.  The same people that hate WalMart are usually so jealous of Microsoft’s success that they can’t stand it. I feel that a company that built what is now a global retail enterprise by backing their slogan "Always Low Prices" does a tremendous service to the vast majority of people who can’t afford to shop on 5th Avenue.  Walmart has a wonderful variety of products at a reasonable price.    They also provide a huge job base for many people —  especially older and disabled workers — who would otherwise be unemployable. Sam Walton was an entrepreneurial genius and groundbreaker.  His philosophy towards his employees all being "associates" of the company, making them feel part of something big and getting them excited about their job has been adopted by many of the most successful companies as their own personnel model.  The company I work for, Marriott, is one of them. I’ve read the "Walmart Sucks" bulletin board in the past; it’s a bunch of disgruntled former employees who couldn’t hack following the rules, failed at their jobs and want  to blame the company.  It’s these former employees with their crappy attitudes and lazy-ass work ethics who "suck," not WalMart. I for one *love* WalMart! Of course, I can’t make a post like this without adding that this is IMHO. Many others may have a different viewpoint, and I hope we can agree to disagree with mutual respect. | — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There’s a certain segment of the population that hates to see free enterprise and capitalism work as it’s intended to.  The same people that hate WalMart are usually so jealous of Microsoft’s success that they can’t stand it. I feel that a company that built what is now a global retail enterprise by backing their slogan "Always Low Prices" does a tremendous service to the vast majority of people who can’t afford to shop on 5th Avenue.  Walmart has a wonderful variety of products at a reasonable price.    They also provide a huge job base for many people —  especially older and disabled workers — who would otherwise be unemployable. Sam Walton was an entrepreneurial genius and groundbreaker.  His philosophy towards his employees all being "associates" of the company, making them feel part of something big and getting them excited about their job has been adopted by many of the most successful companies as their own personnel model.  The company I work for, Marriott, is one of them. I’ve read the "Walmart Sucks" bulletin board in the past; it’s a bunch of disgruntled former employees who couldn’t hack following the rules, failed at their jobs and want  to blame the company.  It’s these former employees with their crappy attitudes and lazy-ass work ethics who "suck," not WalMart. I for one *love* WalMart! Of course, I can’t make a post like this without adding that this is IMHO. Many others may have a different viewpoint, and I hope we can agree to disagree with mutual respect. | — Peter website:  http://users.thelink.net/marengo

http://edworkforce.house.gov/democrats/releases/rel21604.html New Report Details Wal-Mart’s Labor Abuses and Hidden Costs Monday, February 16, 2004 "There

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve done my google searches both web and group, read reviews on CNET….  for the best small business accounting software.  Obviously it would be for my Ebay sales. The main contenders are Quickbooks, Peachtree, MYOB… If the Editor chose it, the individual Reviews panned it.  I couldn’t find a clear recommendation so I’m turning to the newsgroup to ask…… Should I just go with Quickbooks, or am I missing something? First, great response from Tony Cooper.  I learned a few things. Here’s how I track my modest eBay business. I track the money flow in Quicken 2001.

If you use Quicken for your regular household accounts, I think it’s better to install a second Quicken version just for eBay.  You can run almost as many separate Quicken installations as you choose to.  Just give them a new name and maybe put them in a separate directory. Doesn’t cost you a dime more. Your reports are cleaner and you can view your status easier. Don’t overlook that you can create special reports with Quicken.  You can use it to break down certain situations (ie:  canceled sales due to non-payment). — Provider of Jots, Tittles, and Oy!s

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Tony, Thank you Very Much!   I printed your reply, and am now scratching my head and figuring out how to apply your excellent suggestions. It seems very straightforward, I’m going to run through some practice transactions to get the hang of it. Thanks again, and have a great weekend. Douglas

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony, Thank you for taking the time to answer my question so thoroughly. You raised the questions that have been making my choice so difficult! I don’t want an endless database!  I was going to treat each sale as an "Ebay" sale…giving me one customer, and use the Listing Number as a PO # so I could have some reference…. I sell Jewelry with some repeat items, but mainly one of a kinds. So I don’t really need to "track" inventory levels at all, I could easily have a few categories and adjust the levels accordingly. My needs are just as you assumed.  I need to keep track of my: Ebay Sales, NJ Ebay Sales for Tax liabilities… Ebay Seller Fees PayPal Fees CreditCard Charges… Expenses/Supplies/Freight…. Profits/Owner Draw And to provide me with whatever Reports I will need for my Taxes at Year End. I use Quiken for my own personal needs, but I’m not sure how I would get that to work for tracking Income/Expenses….. Any more insight is Much Appreciated! Tony, Thanks again for your thorough reply!  I’m sure there are a few more like me out there trying to work this out! Regards, Douglas

If you own Quicken, just re-install it on your computer under a new name in a new directory.  (Don’t uninstall the present one ) Use your existing Quicken as you have been.  Use the new Quicken for the eBay business. In Quicken, you set up your own chart of accounts.  Just set up expense  accounts like "Postage and Shipping", "Shipping Supplies", "Fees and Commissions" (the eBay charge for a sold item), "Inventory cost" for cost of your jewelry, and any other routine costs you wish to track.   Treat money received and paid out as a checking account or petty cash account unless you have a separate checking account for eBay. Periodically "write" a check from this Quicken account to Doug and treat it as Salary.  You don’t actually print a check, but this keeps the "checking account" to nominal figures.  Same with the credit card account(s), Using Quicken will tell you year-to-date how much you have sold, how much you have spent by category, the status of your PayPal account, and what your net profit is.  You can print out nice summarizing reports. OK, I saved you a few hundred dollars in showing you how to use what you have instead of buying a new program.  Feel free to share the savings.  I accept Personal Checks, money orders, and PayPal. Set up "Sales" as your income account.     — Provider of Jots, Tittles, and Oy!s

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I’ve done my google searches both web and group, read reviews on CNET….  for the best small business accounting software.  Obviously it would be for my Ebay sales. The main contenders are Quickbooks, Peachtree, MYOB… If the Editor chose it, the individual Reviews panned it.  I couldn’t find a clear recommendation so I’m turning to the newsgroup to ask…… Should I just go with Quickbooks, or am I missing something?

First, great response from Tony Cooper.  I learned a few things. Here’s how I track my modest eBay business. I track the money flow in Quicken 2001.  I have a category called Ebay which my income from sales and expenses such as shipping and Ebay/PayPal fees flow through.  I do my merchandise purchases for sale kind of funny though.  When I buy some stuff to sell, I initially put it in the Misc category and then move it to the Ebay category as it sells.  It’s kind of a pain, but then when I view my Ebay category it’s including only the cost of goods sold.  I can look at my Misc category to get an idea of the value of my unsold merchandise. Then, I created a database in Microsoft Access to track my inventory and details on every sale.  I’ve had several return customers as of late so that has been especially useful to have their order history right there for me to look at.  Also allows me to make notes on each customer for if they buy from me again.  And of course I’ve set up some nifty reports.  One I like to look at a lot is my gross monthly sales to see if I’ll ever have a chance of becoming a Bronze power seller.  :-)  For April, I’m at $269 so far.  So, I dont’ think it’s going to happen any time soon! I use the average costing method for my inventory in the database so my numbers will never exactly match what is in Quicken unless I sell *everything*.  In Quicken, I use FIFO for inventory cost, moving the oldest merchandise from Misc to Ebay as it sells. Hope that helps. Kris

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Tony, Thank you for taking the time to answer my question so thoroughly. You raised the questions that have been making my choice so difficult! I don’t want an endless database!  I was going to treat each sale as an "Ebay" sale…giving me one customer, and use the Listing Number as a PO # so I could have some reference…. I sell Jewelry with some repeat items, but mainly one of a kinds. So I don’t really need to "track" inventory levels at all, I could easily have a few categories and adjust the levels accordingly. My needs are just as you assumed.  I need to keep track of my:  Ebay Sales,  NJ Ebay Sales for Tax liabilities… Ebay Seller Fees PayPal Fees CreditCard Charges… Expenses/Supplies/Freight…. Profits/Owner Draw And to provide me with whatever Reports I will need for my Taxes at Year End. I use Quiken for my own personal needs, but I’m not sure how I would get that to work for tracking Income/Expenses….. Any more insight is Much Appreciated! Tony, Thanks again for your thorough reply!  I’m sure there are a few more like me out there trying to work this out! Regards, Douglas

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I’ve done my google searches both web and group, read reviews on CNET….  for the best small business accounting software.  Obviously it would be for my Ebay sales. The main contenders are Quickbooks, Peachtree, MYOB… If the Editor chose it, the individual Reviews panned it.  I couldn’t find a clear recommendation so I’m turning to the newsgroup to ask…… Should I just go with Quickbooks, or am I missing something?

I use QuickBooks for my business (not an eBay business) and have done so for 10 years.  I’ve never used Peachtree or MYOB. For the life of me, though, I can’t imagine why you would want to use a program like any of these three for an eBay business.  Two of the basic reasons to use QuickBooks, in my experience, is for inventory control and accounts receivable and payable management.  Neither of these really apply to an eBay business. Unless you have some special type of product line, your inventory is not a matter of having X number of product #1234 in stock, and reordering that same product when inventory is low.  I carry over 500 line items, but I reorder each of those line items as inventory diminishes.  If your line item number of inventory items is less than 25, you don’t need QB.  That’s line items, not items in inventory. If each item you sell, or the majority of items you sell, is different than the last one, you will go crazy (and build a huge file) creating a new inventory listing for each item. QB is also designed for a fairly fixed customer base.  You can have as many as you like, but each will stay with you forever.   Each one has to be entered like each item of inventory has to be entered.  I would think than an eBay business is concerned with a transaction and not a customer record.   Admittedly, I don’t know what type of products you sell on eBay, and what your requirements are.  I would guess, though, that your primary interest is keeping track of sales figures, managing your checking account, managing your PayPal account, and managing credit card accounts. You can do all of that – far cheaper and easier – with Quicken.  The only disadvantage to Quicken is the lack of inventory management.  You could use a MS Works spreadsheet program for this for next to nothing in cost. I use both QuickBooks (business) and Quicken (personal and eBay).  I print my own checks in Quicken and QuickBooks on blank check stock with the Versa-Check program.   You really can’t expect good answers to your question unless you explain what your objectives are in using a program.  First, you make a short list of what you want to do and accomplish.  Then, you ask what program will do this the easiest for the least amount of investment. If you want information on the use of either Quicken or QuickBooks, I’d be glad to answer an e-mail. — Provider of Jots, Tittles, and Oy!s

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I’ve done my google searches both web and group, read reviews on CNET….  for the best small business accounting software.  Obviously it would be for my Ebay sales. The main contenders are Quickbooks, Peachtree, MYOB… If the Editor chose it, the individual Reviews panned it.  I couldn’t find a clear recommendation so I’m turning to the newsgroup to ask…… Should I just go with Quickbooks, or am I missing something? TIA, Douglas

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i got my old job back! azure

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Wonderful news !! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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: ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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Great, congratulations azure. Ruth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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i got my old job back! azure

– For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

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Azure!  this is fabulous news!  I know you loved that job. Congratulations! Great going twin! marbet

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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yay for you congrats! Leigh

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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That is soooo awesome Congrats

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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i got my old job back! azure

Great!!!!! Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

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i got my old job back!

Yay!  That’s great, azure. jean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – azure

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YIPPEEEEE!!! YEAH!!!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!!! polly wog

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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i got my old job back! azure

Congratulations azure!  I am very happy for you. Ann (SeaBee)

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That’s Grrrrrrrreeeeeeaaaaaattttttt!  Congrats. Shar

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure

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That’s wonderful!!  Congratulations! Peace and strength, TideRider

| i got my old job back! | | azure | |

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neat – oooooo one down and 24 million to go. new Anderson accounting in Bushspeak shows the recession is twice as worse as before, inflation is happening, and the 5.8% growth he was shouting about last month – well its really 1.1%. Twice as worse as it was before the previous quarter. so happy for you and glad you got it during these hard times of Kenny Boys and Ben Laudins loose and fancy free to perpatrate on the little people with there insider secret dealing fast track money games. sumbuddie who cares :*) i got my old job back! azure

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Question:

I think a good accountant could answer that question, and I think the answer would be along the lines of what you have written. Selling Price  ( Average market value ) less liens less cost of clearing (liens/contracts/etc.) less cost of selling ( and perhaps delivery ) The next two are money in your pocket, but have nothing to do with the value of the  airplane. PLUS any insurance refund PLUS any contracted maintenance  refund Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone please explain to me what they believe is the most correct way of calculating capital or equity value in an airplane when you’re in a partnership ?  Most people I speak to say "fair market value minus liens etc equals equity."  So how do we calculate "Capital value" or is it just the same ? Thanx.

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Partnership capital is based on cost, not fair market value.  Presuming that the partners purchase the plane outright (trade-ups and situations where one partner owns 100% of the plane before creating the partnership gets more complicated), you record the cost that you incurred in acquiring the plane. You can capitalize all costs related to the acquisition such as transportation costs to get the plane to your airport, costs incurred in finding the plane to purchase, and cost of pre-purchase inspections.  If you made any "capital improvement" that added to the life or value of the plane such as an engine overhaul, or a prop overhaul, you add the cost of those items to the plane.  Sometimes it gets tricky in determining whether you made a "capital improvement" or just a repair.  Consult with your accountant when you are not sure.  Then subtract accumulated depreciation and outstanding lien balance.   That would give you the collective equity for the partnership.  If you have two partners who contributed equally to the partnership, each partners owns half of the total partnership equity. Partner’s capital usually doesn’t correspond well to the fair market value since you are tracking historical cost rather than value of the plane; you are primarily tracking partner’s capital for tax reasons.  Recommend that you sit down with your accountant during the first year and go over this in detail. Kent Shaw, CPA N9396C

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone please explain to me what they believe is the most correct way of calculating capital or equity value in an airplane when you’re in a partnership ?  Most people I speak to say "fair market value minus liens etc equals equity."  So how do we calculate "Capital value" or is it just the same ? Thanx.

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Can someone please explain to me what they believe is the most correct way of calculating capital or equity value in an airplane when you’re in a partnership ?  Most people I speak to say "fair market value minus liens etc equals equity."  So how do we calculate "Capital value" or is it just the same ? Thanx.

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Question:

I have a few questions regarding this. Aren’t you only required to tax items sold in the same state? I live in Michigan. As a business (which I am not) wouldn’t I only be required to collect tax on sales made to others from Michigan? Also, in the simplest form, what is the easiest and quickest way to go about registering a business. I am looking to resell a few different types of sunglasses. Probably bringing in only a couple hundred dollars a month. Would it be in my best interests to register myself as a business? And if so, what’s the easiest way to go about this. Thanks for any advice. Mark

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I have a few questions regarding this. Aren’t you only required to tax items sold in the same state? I live in Michigan. As a business (which I am not) wouldn’t I only be required to collect tax on sales made to others from Michigan?

This question is about sales tax, and generally speaking, the answer is yes.  You only have to collect sales tax on sales to the state where you’re located.  Your out-of-state customers may be required to pay "use tax" to their state, but that’s their problem, not yours. But you have to pay income tax on all your profit, of course. Also, in the simplest form, what is the easiest and quickest way to go about registering a business.

From the IRS’ point of view, you don’t have to "register" a business unless you have employees.  Just report the income & associated expenses on the appropriate form.  IIRC, it’s Schedule C. Your state & local governments almost certainly have their own requirements, which I couldn’t even begin to guess at.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they had a brochure that would tell you exactly what you need to know.  You might give them a call and see if they can send you one.  Or check and see if they have a web site with the information on it. I am looking to resell a few different types of sunglasses. Probably bringing in only a couple hundred dollars a month. Would it be in my best interests to register myself as a business?

I’d say it would be in your best interests. -Mark-

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Well look at it this way, if she bought the old magazines with the intention of reselling them for a profit, and after everything was said and done, lost money, if she was a business she could deduct the business loss.  It cuts both ways. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know… after testing the water and liking it, I dove in (and paid the necessary taxes).  I just think that the IRS’s definition of a "business" is too far reaching if Donna is considered a business owner or proprietor simply because she bought some old magazines and sold them. The thing is, the IRS doesn’t care if you were "testing the water", when you buy inventory and sell it for a profit, you are a business, and you pay taxes on the profit.  If you do it more than a few times a year, in most states you are required to collect sales tax.  Whether or not you paid sales tax when you purchased the item is often irrelevant. We aren’t talking about a huge tax bite if you make very little money, but just like a teenager that baby sits in the evenings, the government is going to take it’s cut. Richard Ward Something is very wrong with this world if someone "testing the water" or playfull making a buck here or there is considered running a business. I know boundries for income generating activity need to be defined, but even acquiring some items with the intent to sell (sounds like a crime, doesn’t it?), in this case, hardly qualifies this person as a business (in my estimation). I remember when I started.  I too was eliminating clutter that had accumulated over several of my relocations.  Okay, online garage sale kind of thing, you know?  But I enjoyed doing this and I "tested the water" by purchasing some PC hardware that I found at a obscenely low price.  I bought this as a test case to see if it was reasonable to consider doing this as a possible alternate source of pocket money.  If it worked, great; if it didn’t, that was great too.  At this point I feel I was in the same position as the original poster.  Did I think I was a business?  Of course not. Short answer, yes.  The IRS would consider you to be a business.  (You bought inventory for resale, and sold it at a profit.  No gray area here.  This is taxable income.)  State rules will vary from state to state, but under Texas law, you would be a business, and required to collect sales tax.  (Under Texas law, you are required to collect sales tax unless your sales are classed as an occasional sale, which generally means no more than four times a year, though each sale can last for several days, don’t recall exactly how many.  The criteria used here will vary wildly from state to state, but you’d be considered a business and required to collect sales tax in the majority of US jurisdictions.) Richard Ward Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used. Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

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Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used.  Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

As long as you were only selling things from around the house, you were definately NOT a business, according to the IRS.  They’re not interested in your cost recovery activities. But one of the things the IRS looks for is if you purchase things specifically to resell at a profit… – Dan. — – South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://www.crosswinds.net/~darmok – Billions of people walking around – like Happy Meals with legs.

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However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well.

When you did that you became a business, at least in the eyes of the good old IRS.   Don’t worry, they got better things to do than little Ebayers. Who knows, maybe you will be the next Barnes and Noble. John

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Ask your local taxing authority (what they call it varies from state to state).  You can’t be required to collect taxes on sales to a state where you do not have a place of business, but this is based on several US Supreme Court decisions.  How far your state goes up to the limit of these decisions will vary from state to state, most will go as far as the law will allow, but not all. What form of business you should operate as will vary from state to state and with your personal situation.  Ask an accountant.  You can get answers on this type of question VERY cheaply, most accountants look at this type of advice as a promotional kind of thing to get more lucrative business later, and charge very little, often $50 or so for a consultation. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a few questions regarding this. Aren’t you only required to tax items sold in the same state? I live in Michigan. As a business (which I am not) wouldn’t I only be required to collect tax on sales made to others from Michigan? Also, in the simplest form, what is the easiest and quickest way to go about registering a business. I am looking to resell a few different types of sunglasses. Probably bringing in only a couple hundred dollars a month. Would it be in my best interests to register myself as a business? And if so, what’s the easiest way to go about this. Thanks for any advice. Mark

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If you decide you are a business, think about the issue of a business licence, too. As long as your business has no local impact (no customers coming to your house, no stream of noxious waste flowing out of the yard) you may not want to bother. Your local authorities will be displeased, though, in the unlikely event that they find out. I’m not aware of any cases where federal or state taxing authorities shared information about who reports business income with local authorities. But it could happen. In my own city, the government once issued RFPs intended to solicit bids from local businesses that might not be licensed, and checked the bids against their records. Some cities are fairly friendly to small-scale home businesses. Some are not. Depending on where you live, you may be faced with a stiff minimum tax, or even a law that flatly forbids you to run a business out of your home. Such laws are rarely enforced, but always enforceable. – - Jonathan Sachs Send email to jonathan at dnai dot com.

Response:

As my wife runs a home business (nothing to do with Ebay) she asked our CPA while he was doing our taxes if the money we "made" from a garage sale had to be turned in as income;  He asked if we sold anything in the garage sale for more money than what we bought it for, of course the answer was no. He told us that it didn’t count as income unless any of the items sold were from my wife’s business, which they weren’t, and if so we could take a "loss" from the sale and lower our adjusted income. I do agree though, if you buy something  and sell it at a profit you "according to IRS" must report it as income. In the other area of if you are a business all depends on your state and local laws which in regards to Ebay will be about as clear as mud.  Most local governments if asked concerning Ebay would tell you that you need a business license to sell items but I do not know (To my knowledge, you don’t need a license to participate in a flea auction, but most areas require a permit to conduct a garage sale) I would think the definition and classification as a business should really depend on your intent as a casual seller or like some of the big guns on Ebay; as a way of living.  (I bet there are a lot of fulltime sellers who don’t have business licenses or report income to uncle Sam).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used.  Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used.  Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

Depends on what state you live in and how much you’re grossing a year.  The practical definition is that if you are actively purchasing goods in order to re-sell, or if you are regularly spending a significant amount of time plying your skills for money, then you are definitely a business. I would say that you weren’t a business up to the point where you went to the bookstore and started buying goods with the intention of re-selling. Welcome to the wonderful business of online auction selling.  Hope you’ve got plenty of space on the ‘ol credit cards.  :)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used.  Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

I will claim this as a business the day I can say "hey! I can quit my day job!" That day won’t come soon enough….the way I feel some days but it sure isn’t now! — -SEC "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read!" – Groucho Marx

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something is very wrong with this world if someone "testing the water" or playfull making a buck here or there is considered running a business.  I know boundries for income generating activity need to be defined, but even acquiring some items with the intent to sell (sounds like a crime, doesn’t it?), in this case, hardly qualifies this person as a business (in my estimation). I remember when I started.  I too was eliminating clutter that had accumulated over several of my relocations.  Okay, online garage sale kind of thing, you know?  But I enjoyed doing this and I "tested the water" by purchasing some PC hardware that I found at a obscenely low price.  I bought this as a test case to see if it was reasonable to consider doing this as a possible alternate source of pocket money.  If it worked, great; if it didn’t, that was great too.  At this point I feel I was in the same position as the original poster.  Did I think I was a business?  Of course not. Short answer, yes.  The IRS would consider you to be a business.  (You bought inventory for resale, and sold it at a profit.  No gray area here.  This is taxable income.)  State rules will vary from state to state, but under Texas law, you would be a business, and required to collect sales tax.  (Under Texas law, you are required to collect sales tax unless your sales are classed as an occasional sale, which generally means no more than four times a year, though each sale can last for several days, don’t recall exactly how many.  The criteria used here will vary wildly from state to state, but you’d be considered a business and required to collect sales tax in the majority of US jurisdictions.) Richard Ward Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used. Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

The thing is, the IRS doesn’t care if you were "testing the water", when you buy inventory and sell it for a profit, you are a business, and you pay taxes on the profit.  If you do it more than a few times a year, in most states you are required to collect sales tax.  Whether or not you paid sales tax when you purchased the item is often irrelevant. We aren’t talking about a huge tax bite if you make very little money, but just like a teenager that baby sits in the evenings, the government is going to take it’s cut. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something is very wrong with this world if someone "testing the water" or playfull making a buck here or there is considered running a business.  I know boundries for income generating activity need to be defined, but even acquiring some items with the intent to sell (sounds like a crime, doesn’t it?), in this case, hardly qualifies this person as a business (in my estimation). I remember when I started.  I too was eliminating clutter that had accumulated over several of my relocations.  Okay, online garage sale kind of thing, you know?  But I enjoyed doing this and I "tested the water" by purchasing some PC hardware that I found at a obscenely low price.  I bought this as a test case to see if it was reasonable to consider doing this as a possible alternate source of pocket money.  If it worked, great; if it didn’t, that was great too.  At this point I feel I was in the same position as the original poster.  Did I think I was a business?  Of course not. Short answer, yes.  The IRS would consider you to be a business.  (You bought inventory for resale, and sold it at a profit.  No gray area here.  This is taxable income.)  State rules will vary from state to state, but under Texas law, you would be a business, and required to collect sales tax.  (Under Texas law, you are required to collect sales tax unless your sales are classed as an occasional sale, which generally means no more than four times a year, though each sale can last for several days, don’t recall exactly how many.  The criteria used here will vary wildly from state to state, but you’d be considered a business and required to collect sales tax in the majority of US jurisdictions.) Richard Ward Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used. Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

I know… after testing the water and liking it, I dove in (and paid the necessary taxes).  I just think that the IRS’s definition of a "business" is too far reaching if Donna is considered a business owner or proprietor simply because she bought some old magazines and sold them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The thing is, the IRS doesn’t care if you were "testing the water", when you buy inventory and sell it for a profit, you are a business, and you pay taxes on the profit.  If you do it more than a few times a year, in most states you are required to collect sales tax.  Whether or not you paid sales tax when you purchased the item is often irrelevant. We aren’t talking about a huge tax bite if you make very little money, but just like a teenager that baby sits in the evenings, the government is going to take it’s cut. Richard Ward Something is very wrong with this world if someone "testing the water" or playfull making a buck here or there is considered running a business. I know boundries for income generating activity need to be defined, but even acquiring some items with the intent to sell (sounds like a crime, doesn’t it?), in this case, hardly qualifies this person as a business (in my estimation). I remember when I started.  I too was eliminating clutter that had accumulated over several of my relocations.  Okay, online garage sale kind of thing, you know?  But I enjoyed doing this and I "tested the water" by purchasing some PC hardware that I found at a obscenely low price.  I bought this as a test case to see if it was reasonable to consider doing this as a possible alternate source of pocket money.  If it worked, great; if it didn’t, that was great too.  At this point I feel I was in the same position as the original poster.  Did I think I was a business?  Of course not. Short answer, yes.  The IRS would consider you to be a business.  (You bought inventory for resale, and sold it at a profit.  No gray area here.  This is taxable income.)  State rules will vary from state to state, but under Texas law, you would be a business, and required to collect sales tax.  (Under Texas law, you are required to collect sales tax unless your sales are classed as an occasional sale, which generally means no more than four times a year, though each sale can last for several days, don’t recall exactly how many.  The criteria used here will vary wildly from state to state, but you’d be considered a business and required to collect sales tax in the majority of US jurisdictions.) Richard Ward Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used. Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

Unfortunately, the issue really isn’t when you decide to call yourself a business, it’s when the IRS and whatever state agency in your state that collects sales tax decides to call you a business, and their definitions are generally far more liberal than the one you are using. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will claim this as a business the day I can say "hey! I can quit my day job!" That day won’t come soon enough….the way I feel some days but it sure isn’t now! — -SEC "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read!" – Groucho Marx Something is very wrong with this world if someone "testing the water" or playfull making a buck here or there is considered running a business.  I know boundries for income generating activity need to be defined, but even acquiring some items with the intent to sell (sounds like a crime, doesn’t it?), in this case, hardly qualifies this person as a business (in my estimation). I remember when I started.  I too was eliminating clutter that had accumulated over several of my relocations.  Okay, online garage sale kind of thing, you know?  But I enjoyed doing this and I "tested the water" by purchasing some PC hardware that I found at a obscenely low price.  I bought this as a test case to see if it was reasonable to consider doing this as a possible alternate source of pocket money.  If it worked, great; if it didn’t, that was great too.  At this point I feel I was in the same position as the original poster.  Did I think I was a business?  Of course not. Short answer, yes.  The IRS would consider you to be a business.  (You bought inventory for resale, and sold it at a profit.  No gray area here.  This is taxable income.)  State rules will vary from state to state, but under Texas law, you would be a business, and required to collect sales tax.  (Under Texas law, you are required to collect sales tax unless your sales are classed as an occasional sale, which generally means no more than four times a year, though each sale can last for several days, don’t recall exactly how many.  The criteria used here will vary wildly from state to state, but you’d be considered a business and required to collect sales tax in the majority of US jurisdictions.) Richard Ward Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used. Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

Short answer, yes.  The IRS would consider you to be a business.  (You bought inventory for resale, and sold it at a profit.  No gray area here.  This is taxable income.)  State rules will vary from state to state, but under Texas law, you would be a business, and required to collect sales tax.  (Under Texas law, you are required to collect sales tax unless your sales are classed as an occasional sale, which generally means no more than four times a year, though each sale can last for several days, don’t recall exactly how many.  The criteria used here will vary wildly from state to state, but you’d be considered a business and required to collect sales tax in the majority of US jurisdictions.) Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used.  Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

Something is very wrong with this world if someone "testing the water" or playfull making a buck here or there is considered running a business.  I know boundries for income generating activity need to be defined, but even acquiring some items with the intent to sell (sounds like a crime, doesn’t it?), in this case, hardly qualifies this person as a business (in my estimation). I remember when I started.  I too was eliminating clutter that had accumulated over several of my relocations.  Okay, online garage sale kind of thing, you know?  But I enjoyed doing this and I "tested the water" by purchasing some PC hardware that I found at a obscenely low price.  I bought this as a test case to see if it was reasonable to consider doing this as a possible alternate source of pocket money.  If it worked, great; if it didn’t, that was great too.  At this point I feel I was in the same position as the original poster.  Did I think I was a business?  Of course not.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Short answer, yes.  The IRS would consider you to be a business.  (You bought inventory for resale, and sold it at a profit.  No gray area here.  This is taxable income.)  State rules will vary from state to state, but under Texas law, you would be a business, and required to collect sales tax.  (Under Texas law, you are required to collect sales tax unless your sales are classed as an occasional sale, which generally means no more than four times a year, though each sale can last for several days, don’t recall exactly how many.  The criteria used here will vary wildly from state to state, but you’d be considered a business and required to collect sales tax in the majority of US jurisdictions.) Richard Ward Wonderful group here – I have a question.  I started eBaying well over a year ago. First item I sold was some computer hardware I no longer used. Then I decided to clean the garage and started selling magazines  that my husband had accumulated since the 60s.  Then I got the brilliant idea to sell ads from the magazines. Then I searched every nook and cranny in the house and started selling stuff I no longer used. I’m slowly selling off all my books too. But I guess I never thought of myself as a business.   Am I?  I am not exactly getting rich as the listing fees add up – I only sell maybe 1 item in 5 – and the average price is $2.99.  However, recently I went to a book store and bought a bunch of books on clearance and some of them have sold quite well. Some my husband did "read" first.  So – am I a business?!!  DonnaB

Response:

Question:

What tax prep software do you use / recommend

Response:

What tax prep software do you use / recommend

I am not a tax person anymore; after years as a tax manager for EY, and independent I have taken a metadata pledge.  I only work with systems that allow me to control and direct **types** of information. I will not touch a number or text descriptions of numbers… In 97-98 years I did returns with Anderson A+Tax and it was good, for the price for a few Corps, SubS and Parterships I had. Naturally they got bought out and killed by somebody, I don’t know who.  But any software product is systematically going to be worth more to the highpriced incumbent software company than to its original owners, in this post- antitrust era.   America has figured out that it should gain more by enduring the social costs of monopoly domestically, for the sake of achieving monopolistic domination of world software markets. er. what were we talking about.. oh yeah.. sorry… I used TaxACT99 this year and it was great, for my own measly 1040 <grin * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * XML accounting, web ledgers, BSPs, ASPs, whatever it takes

Response:

Question:

I find this very hard to believe.  Out here on the west coast, any reasonble advertisement for a job gets close to one hundred qualified applicants.  It sounds like a BW puff piece, or their is something very unusual about the situation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course we have a historically low unemployment rate and top accounting Big Six bound students have always seemed to do fairly well when the economy was decent but hows the market overall? I saw a Bus Week article on the tight labor mkts for younger workers and they had this bit on 21 yr old interns at Deloitte and Touche in Chicago who had free "luxury apartments" with maid service, free laptops, a lake view and were paid $3900 a month plus overtime.         Is this just the Chicago area? Just Big Six bound top students? There have always been puff pieces like this about the employers being so desperate yet you always hear conflicting stories. Old age discrimination, preference for really young cheaper college grads, very picky employers, preference for foreign workers, etc. etc. Norman Matiloff for insistance, a Comp Sci professor has collected a large amount of evidence that high tech companies which scream about shortages all the time, routinely discriminate against 35+ age workers and are very picky only hiring a miniscule amount of the people who apply preferring young college grads or foreign workers.

Response:

I think it is a combination of hype and employers who want dirt cheap technical labor.  There was something recently about a glut of unemployed computer engineering types who had passed the golden portal of 35 !without entering management! and were hence considered unemployable by the high tech industry. Accounting has always been like that, except the age of unemployability was lower.  Age discrimination is the norm rather than the exception.  If your not in management, or can bring your own clients along, your usually dead at thirty.  There are a few execptions for tax specialists and some obscurities.  Its alwasy been that way, and I doubt if it will ever change. ((Yes, I know there about the Federal Age Discrimination Act of 1978 (?), but I’ve never met a Public Accountant who took it seriously.)) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find this very hard to believe.  Out here on the west coast, any reasonble advertisement for a job gets close to one hundred qualified applicants.  It sounds like a BW puff piece, or their is something very unusual about the situation.     Geez, after I read about the situation in high tech I thought it was actually a conspiracy the night and day scenario painted by Matiloff and others and this constant stream of hype about how employers were virtually so desperate they grabbing people off the street – a phrase a commentator on economics made a few months ago. I saw another dire warning about the critical shortage of people who want to work in high tech in the US.     Of course I know the Federal Reserve Bank  is thinking about raising sort term int rates because the "labor market is too tight" , but there seems to be a weird disconnection in the two portrayals. I thought maybe in the accounting field it was actually true though.

Response:

Question:

We currently have 3 openings for staff-level accountants in our division.  A "general" staff accountant, fixed assets and a franchise accountant.  All three rotate duties for cross-training. If you, or someone you know is interested, drop me a line. John Fuszard johnfuszard "at" baymontinns.com Assistant Controller Baymont Inns & Suites www.baymontinns.com

Response:

hey i am Nguyen Huy a newly CPA. I am looking for a job now please email me at:

Response:

Question:

Don’t you think that the American consumer derives the biggest benefit from public land use?  How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands? How much more would gasoline and heating oil and natural gas cost if we shut down wells on public land? While I agree that the resources are not properly managed and charged for, shutting out commercial use would cost all of us a lot of money. Ken GR GRThe solution to lowering debt isn’t to sell public lands, but to   GRrestructure policies so that timber and Oil, Gas & Mining (OGM) indus GRaren’t being subsidized for their exploitation of our public lands… GR GRIn 1992-94, the General Accounting Office reported that the U.S. Fore GRService spent nearly a billion dollars more on timber projects than i GRreceived in receipts from timber companies… GR GRMaybe its about time we focused the attn of our public lands on provi GRrecreation, rather than tree farms for the timber industry. GR GReric GR GR          ===== Armed with Visions…Defend the Earth===== GRChickadee’s Roosting Page http://envirolink.org/homepp/eric GRAllegheny Defense Project http://envirolink.org/orgs/allegheny GR GR"The most violent element in society is ignorance."    - Emma Goldman GR GR++++ Stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ GR++++ If you agree, copy these 3 sentences in your own sig ++++ GR++++ More info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/mumia002.htm ++++ GR GR GR GR  Makes too much sence. GR GRCrawdad GR — WinQwk 2.0 a#0

Response:

says… Don’t you think that the American consumer derives the biggest benefit from public land use?

If some changes were made, they could.  How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands?

Since the public lands provide only about 15 per cent of the lumber, and wood is a declining input into buildings, I don’t think a house would cost much more.  There are plenty of substitutes for wood; many of them improvemets.  I am just having a metal roof put on to replace the wooden shingles.  It will save me money in the long run, and it will last longer. The major cost of a house is the interest rate. How much more would gasoline and heating oil and natural gas cost if we shut down wells on public land?

It seems to me that the price of oil is mostly determined by the world market price.  This depends mostly on events in the Middle East. While I agree that the resources are not properly managed and charged for, shutting out commercial use would cost all of us a lot of money. Ken

I agree that we should have commericial uses of the public lands, but we need some balance. Ralph Maughan Pocatello,Idaho

Response:

How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands?

Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands? Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth.

…and open those strip mines But seriously, given the choice between cutting trees (which DO grow back, in case you didn’t know) and creating huge scars (open pit mines) which will NEVER be the same (at least not on any time scale relavant to humans), even with significant reclamation attempts, I’d pick cutting trees; it seems to me it has a lower impact on the ecosystem. Granted, I am for intelligent management of timber resources. OTOH, if the steel used for contruction is, say, from recycled cars, then go for it! But even that is not completely environmentally benign — remember, the energy to recycle the steel has to come from somewhere, most likely coal, causing more mines. Every choice has trade-offs. Jeff Gauvin, Design Engineer, Symbios Logic Inc.           *** Opinions are my own ***

Response:

How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands? Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth.

        So maybe we should sell the portions of public lands which are little more than subsidized tree farms to the timber people, and get the government out of the lumber business;  let the market handle it.  Just do it slowly, so there isn’t a land rush.  Oh, and make sure we get good prices on that land. …and open those strip mines But seriously, given the choice between cutting trees (which DO grow back, in case you didn’t know) and creating huge scars (open pit mines) which will NEVER be the same (at least not on any time scale relavant to humans), even with significant reclamation attempts, I’d pick cutting trees; it seems to me it has a lower impact on the ecosystem. Granted, I am for intelligent management of timber resources.

        Pit mine scars can be restored in human lifetimes;  it’s been done in Ohio, for example.  It does take a lot of work, but that should be part of the price of using such mining methods. OTOH, if the steel used for contruction is, say, from recycled cars, then go for it! But even that is not completely environmentally benign — remember, the energy to recycle the steel has to come from somewhere, most likely coal, causing more mines.

        We’re starting to see recycled-wood products on the market, too, including for construction.  One of my favorites, published IIRC in Popular Science, was a synthetic lumber made from shredded recycled wood (from construction, old furniture, etc) bonded in some sort of polymer solution and surfaced with extremely thin real wood for appearance — the surface being bonded in with the polymer as well, so it wouldn’t wear off.  The stuff can be cut, nailed, drilled, stapled, and the like by present tools, is not subject to rot, has an insulation factor similar to plain wood, and includes fire-reatardent chemicals so that it is much harder to burn than plain wood. Every choice has trade-offs.

        Even so;  there is pollution from the process.  But it is a start.                         one of God’s peculiar< people      "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God’s peculiar people."                           — the Apostle Peter (KJV)

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      – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth. …and open those strip mines But seriously, given the choice between cutting trees (which DO grow back, in case you didn’t know) and creating huge scars (open pit mines) which will NEVER be the same (at least not on any time scale relavant to humans), even with significant reclamation attempts, I’d pick cutting trees; it seems to me it has a lower impact on the ecosystem. Granted, I am for intelligent management of timber resources.

Wood may seem preferable because it is a renewable resource, but I guess I should say it is a "potentially" renewable resource. Much of the forestry in the interior Western United States would be better described as "timber mining", putting lumber in the same category as coal, steel, and copper.  In other words, they cut trees faster than they grow back and they manage for logging, lands that have a higher value for water- shed, esthetics, wildlife, livestock grazing, etc.. OTOH, if the steel used for contruction is, say, from recycled cars, then go for it! But even that is not completely environmentally benign — remember, the energy to recycle the steel has to come from somewhere, most likely coal, causing more mines. Every choice has trade-offs.

This is true as long as one realizes that the terms of the trade-off are often obviously in favor of one side of the trade. As I posted earlier, from now "metal roofs for me" and a bias in favor of construction materials other than wood. Most people the world do not live in wooden structures, and in North American fewer people live in them as time goes by. Ralph Maughan Pocatello, Idaho

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   So maybe we should sell the portions of public lands which are little more than subsidized tree farms to the timber people, and get the government out of the lumber business;  let the market handle it.  Just do it slowly, so there isn’t a land rush.  Oh, and make sure we get good prices on that land. …and open those strip mines

Living in SW Montana I have on several occasions "benefitted" from private land ownership.  The new thing in this part of the country seems to be attempts to close off public accesses by newly arrived Hollywood ranchers.  They can do this with relative impunity, as the maximum allowable fine for doing this illegally, under state law, is $10 per day – chump change for the people who can afford to buy these places to start with.  Given this behavior, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what would happen to public access if the forest lands themselves come under private ownership.  And don’t forget about BLM lands as well. If the current attempts to sell off our lands succeed, the entire west will become a true rich man’s playground.  It will still be nice to look at, only you’ll be trespassing if you get 50 feet from your car.  Anyone who uses the outdoors – from 4 wheelers to backpackers – should be aware that if this comes to pass, there will be nothing left to fight about as we’ll ALL be locked out.

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