Paul King, are you proud of yourself yet? I am not even going to reply to your slander! I have nothing to hide (I make a 1,000 bux a year if I’m lucky, not even an average)! HIV/AIDS Gifts/Shopping: http://www.hivaidssearch.com/hiv-testing/ http://www.hivsearch.com/products/aids-ribbon-charm.htm http://www.cafeshops.com/hivaids_network/ http://donate.13km.com
Thanks for helping spread my donate pages arounds Kelly, never knew you were trying to help, but you did, a few said they made a contribution from this report of yours. Hoping in future, you could give this link too http://www.poz.ca/donate-paypal.htm as it would help me some more, thanks 
HEAL UK is a reg. charity NOT a pan handler like Mr. DaveyBoy. Alt Heal has full accounting and a corporate (Ltd) structure.
Wow, must be nice to make that kinda money of your AIDS lies to afford to get all that registered properly. Wish I could afford all that! http://hiv-aids-poz.com/Daveyboy/
In DaveyBoy’s own words, from his public message boards… http://www.poz.ca/help/cash-gifts.htm
Oh paul, all this shows is the level of organisation that any support group would welcome. The site you refer to in you rants, and I remember your frequent invations in which you would not accept what we were all saying that hiv is a chronic manageable illnesss and the site was a major contributer to assisting many individuals from all over the world gain access to relevent peer stories about everything from opportunistic infections and hiv meds, you would not listen to us and kept returning to how conned you feel, are you even hiv. Personally I thank you for promoting our site paul and hope that one day you can find peace in yourself.
In DaveyBoy’s own words, from his public message boards… http://www.poz.ca/help/cash-gifts.htm
End of that silly debate.DaveyBoy is a con man NO MATTER WHAT YOUR OPINION ON ‘AIDS’ IS. Plain and simple.
And the leaders of Heal Chapters in New York have been charged and convicted of fraud a number of times.
In all fairness, I must ask you if you can provide evidence for that. — David Canzi "Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity." — Eric Hoffer
End of that silly debate.DaveyBoy is a con man NO MATTER WHAT YOUR OPINION ON ‘AIDS’ IS. Plain and simple.
Your assertion, unproven. There is nothing wrong with asking for money. People will choose to give or not.
I remember reading about it in the Press in the early 90’s that is all I have at this time. Gary Stein – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And the leaders of Heal Chapters in New York have been charged and convicted of fraud a number of times. In all fairness, I must ask you if you can provide evidence for that. — David Canzi "Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity." — Eric Hoffer
That is a complete lie. I challenge you to show any evidence to support your vile immoral lie. You are a disgusting lier and low life.
I note that no one can defend DaveyBoy but simply try to deflect the truth about this pathetic con man by posting unfounded attacks on dissidents. We have all agreed that DaveyBoy is a small time con man and pan handler. A blight on even the AIDS establishment.
Actually it is on just about EVERY MSN ‘AIDS’ group. Take a look. Be my guest.
I did a google search for the alleged quote and didn’t find it. I checked recent postings from a few MSN AIDS boards at random and didn’t find it. MSN groups does not appear to provide a search capability. It’s not practical to eyeball search over 100 groups, with postings going back months or years, for a quote allegedly posted to unnamed groups on unspecified dates. An honest man who wants to convince people of a belief tries to make it easy for people to find the evidence that supports it. A dishonest man lies about non-existent evidence, then waves a hand vaguely and says the evidence is somewhere over there. You have claimed that daveyboy is fraudulently selling spray painted items as "enameled". You have claimed that daveyboy has been banned from every mainstream AIDS group in Canada. Either provide credible evidence for these (probably libelous) claims, or withdraw them. — David Canzi "Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity." — Eric Hoffer
And the leaders of Heal Chapters in New York have been charged and convicted of fraud a number of times.
This seems to have provoked quite an emotional reaction from Paul. It’s hard to imagine such a reaction from somebody not connected to HEAL… maybe Paul’s a member. — David Canzi "Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity." — Eric Hoffer
I note that no one can defend DaveyBoy but simply try to deflect the truth about this pathetic con man by posting unfounded attacks on dissidents. We have all agreed that DaveyBoy is a small time con man and pan handler.
No we haven’t. Speak for yourself. I don’t know enough about DaveyBoy to decide either way. When I ask you for evidence to support your opinions about DaveyBoy, you can’t provide any. Wise men don’t form opinions in the absence of evidence. I try my best to imitate them. — David Canzi "Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity." — Eric Hoffer
As I have NEVER sold anything that could be said to be true.
That is what I meant by your snakeoil.
Actually it is on just about EVERY MSN ‘AIDS’ group. Take a look. Be my guest.
HEAL UK is a reg. charity NOT a pan handler like Mr. DaveyBoy. Alt Heal has full accounting and a corporate (Ltd) structure.
And the leaders of Heal Chapters in New York have been charged and convicted of fraud a number of times. Gary Stein
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HEAL UK is a reg. charity NOT a pan handler like Mr. DaveyBoy. Alt Heal has full accounting and a corporate (Ltd) structure.
Paul, you posted a reply to somebody as a followup to your own article, and included no contextual information from the article you were responding to that might allow readers to identify it. I will assume that you’re responding to the following, posted by me:
| FROM A POST ON AN MSN BOARD | | ""LOOK AT ME NOW! I started with nothing and now I am almost able to fully | support myself with sponsor ads alone (with several more months of work | and promotion I will be comfortable)." | | So why not post the URL so we can see for ourselves? And you responded thus: Yeh right. Do you thhink I don’t know why you want it? Like I am going to invite you into another board. You know the quote is true as DaveyBoy’s site is end to end ’shopping ads for junk’ and pop up ads asking for donations. Seems you will stand up for anyone so long as they are anti dissident even if it is just a scam to get attention for their self serving site.
Your instant assumption that I was trying to get into one of your closed boards is purely paranoid. Underground rumours from secret web boards are not evidence. Evidence must be accessible and trustworthy — for example, at a publically readable URL that is not under the control of people who might be tempted to falsify evidence. If somebody quoted daveyboy on a secret dissident web board, they should have given the URL where they saw that quote. You could then have posted that information here and we could have checked it. Similarly, if you say daveyboy has been banned from all mainstream AIDS organizations in Canada, or you say daveyboy is selling spray-painted ornaments as enameled, you need to tell us how we can verify those claims for ourselves. Otherwise all we have is your word, and that’s worth less than the snot in my used kleenex. — David Canzi "Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity." — Eric Hoffer
FROM A POST ON AN MSN BOARD ""LOOK AT ME NOW! I started with nothing and now I am almost able to fully support myself with sponsor ads alone (with several more months of work and promotion I will be comfortable)." WHAT A GREAT SCAM!
FROM A POST ON AN MSN BOARD ""LOOK AT ME NOW! I started with nothing and now I am almost able to fully support myself with sponsor ads alone (with several more months of work and promotion I will be comfortable)." WHAT A GREAT SCAM!
What’s the problem Paul? Your snake oil vitimin sales not working out?
"What’s the problem Paul? Your snake oil vitimin sales not working out?" As I have NEVER sold anything that could be said to be true. Perhaps I should join the con men selling car spray as enamel and HAART as medications. To Hell with humanity and morals, I could get rich too.
FROM A POST ON AN MSN BOARD ""LOOK AT ME NOW! I started with nothing and now I am almost able to fully support myself with sponsor ads alone (with several more months of work and promotion I will be comfortable)."
So why not post the URL so we can see for ourselves? — David Canzi "Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity." — Eric Hoffer
Yeh right. Do you thhink I don’t know why you want it? Like I am going to invite you into another board. You know the quote is true as DaveyBoy’s site is end to end ’shopping ads for junk’ and pop up ads asking for donations. Seems you will stand up for anyone so long as they are anti dissident even if it is just a scam to get attention for their self serving site.
Subject : ALTHEAL APPEAL PLEASE POST ON WEBSITES | | Hi Mark As promised here is the appeal, I have set up an email address that people can send money to using PayPal. The appeal below contains the Altheal web site address for general distribution purposes but it does not of course need to be present when you post it on the Altheal site. It would be a great help if members can email this appeal to some of those whose email addresses appear on the Virusmyth Mbeki petition. This is what I did to raise funds last time. Maybe people can coordinate amongst themselves to choose petition signatories over particular date ranges. Best wishes to all John Hello there My name is John Kirkham, treasurer of the UK based AIDS dissident group Altheal (www.altheal.org). This appeal comes to you because of the pervasive ignorance, especially among patients, of vitally important information questioning HIV/AIDS that would enable people to make truly informed decisions regarding their own HIV positivity. The AIDS establishment is denying people the opportunity to weigh up the merits of this challenging information for themselves and our organisation currently represents the only conduit in the UK for bringing this information forward. Our organisation, and the Altheal site (a site which has already made a prominent and valuable international impact upon HIV/AIDS discourse) depend for their existence entirely upon donations independent of pharmaceutical interests. If you genuinely care about the abuse of patient rights, lack of access to information on effective non-toxic AIDS therapy, lack of choice and provision of effective non-toxic AIDS therapy, lack of informed consent etc. then we ask that you contribute a small amount (say
My girlfriend owns a small convenient store. She went into this business, about 3 years ago not knowing anything about it, and has since learned quite a lot, although not all. She has some inventory which went bad, out of date, or otherwise unsaleable, which is just sitting in her back storeroom. My question is: How can she write it off without taking a total loss on this inventory? And, How should she dispose of this inventory afterwards? Some of this inventory has been sitting around for quite some time collecting dust and just taking up space.
Why not take the total loss? It’s deductible. She just needs to make a journal entry expensing something like "inventory shrinkage" or "Unsaleable inventory" and reducing her inventory account. Then just pitch it. — Lisa Peterson Streamline Consulting, Inc. Minneapolis, MN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend owns a small convenient store. She went into this business, about 3 years ago not knowing anything about it, and has since learned quite a lot, although not all. She has some inventory which went bad, out of date, or otherwise unsaleable, which is just sitting in her back storeroom. My question is: How can she write it off without taking a total loss on this inventory? And, How should she dispose of this inventory afterwards? Some of this inventory has been sitting around for quite some time collecting dust and just taking up space.
She should consult her accountant. What she can do, will depend on how she accounts for inventory. Her accountant should know this, we do not. If she uses the traditional "Retail Inventory Accounting" method, for example, all she has to do to "write it off" is assign appropriate values when she "takes inventory". As to "writing it off without taking a loss", I’m not sure what you mean. Likewise, "how should she dispose of it?" If it’s unsaleable, that means it can’t be sold. Why does she keep it? What type of product is it, and what are the local regulations for disposal of those products? Has she asked her supplier(s) about taking it back? Many suppliers will deal with unsaleable product in order to ensure it is disposed of "safely" and out of public view. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend owns a small convenient store. She went into this business, about 3 years ago not knowing anything about it, and has since learned quite a lot, although not all. She has some inventory which went bad, out of date, or otherwise unsaleable, which is just sitting in her back storeroom. My question is: How can she write it off without taking a total loss on this inventory? And, How should she dispose of this inventory afterwards? Some of this inventory has been sitting around for quite some time collecting dust and just taking up space.
Why would a Phoenix company be making such systems soley for over-seas carriers?
Overseas doesn’t make any difference. The company is in the US making parts for installation in FAA type certificated aircraft. That’s all that is required for the FAA to get into the game.
Why would the FAA be involved? The system was not sold to a single US carrier, nor installed in a single USA registered aircraft. If there was an oversight failure, it was with European/Swiss authorities. Ultimately they are responsible for regulations and control of any equipment installed in a Swiss registered aircraft. Actually, the FAA does have authority (responsibility can be argued). The US manufacturer produces part for an aircraft with a FAA-issued type certificate, and such the full force of Part 21 applies to him, whether the part is sold to a foreign entity or not.
No. But thanks for playing. John P. Tarver, MS/PE
@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net: Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking out the window of an airplane… — Can’t do that these days coz the people who ask for window seats are the ones who want to watch 20 year old game shows on the satellite TV so they keep the shades down. Once had a blind passenger ask for a window seat, odd.
The window seat is good for sleeping because it has that large headrest next to the seat. Also this seat is not disturbed by seatmates wanting to get to and from the aisle. It’s the ideal seat for being left alone. What’s odd is that this requires explanation.
In-flight entertainment systems linked to scores of jet ‘difficulties’ By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY Unless I’m flying with NWA, I’m too busy shagging a couple of the stewardesses to bother about in-flight entertainment. Cheers Phil
give them one from me!
O That system, built by a Phoenix company now out of the airline business, was put on to replace an existing system and pioneered interactive entertainment at each seat. But, as a USA TODAY investigation found in February, it was improperly designed, installed and certified by contractors without adequate FAA oversight. The General Accounting Office and the Transportation Department’s inspector general recently began investigating the matter.
Why would the FAA be involved? The system was not sold to a single US carrier, nor installed in a single USA registered aircraft. If there was an oversight failure, it was with European/Swiss authorities. Ultimately they are responsible for regulations and control of any equipment installed in a Swiss registered aircraft. However there is a real problem, in that there are NO specific FAA certification requirements for IFE. NO TSO’s, no type certificates, no nothing….
Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking out the window of an airplane… For 23 hours? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Happily! -c.
In-flight entertainment systems linked to scores of jet ‘difficulties’ By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY Unless I’m flying with NWA, I’m too busy shagging a couple of the stewardesses to bother about in-flight entertainment.
Don’t tell me you boff UA hosties.. Have you no shame, man??
That system, built by a Phoenix company now out of the airline business, was put on to replace an existing system and pioneered interactive entertainment at each seat. Why would the FAA be involved? The system was not sold to a single US carrier, nor installed in a single USA registered aircraft. If there was an oversight failure, it was with European/Swiss authorities.
Why would a Phoenix company be making such systems soley for over-seas carriers?
But Candace Kolander of the Association of Flight Attendants union says the airline industry has become too obsessed with pleasing passengers. Discuss.
Just like ta know what friggin’ airline she’s talkin’ ’bout so I can start flying it.
Whilst undoubtedly under the effects of alcohol, "JustaCowboy" The window seat is good for sleeping because it has that large headrest next to the seat. Also this seat is not disturbed by seatmates wanting to get to and from the aisle. It’s the ideal seat for being left alone.
The counter is that some of us don’t want to disturb those seated next to us. I managed to fly from LHR to SIN in a window seat, without getting out of my seat until about 11 hours into the flight. I could see that the guys next to me were fast asleep, and I did not want to disturb them (I had to go, but I wasn’t about to wet my pants either). Aisle seats have their advantages, I would much rather be climbed over than have to climb over two others whilst they are (trying to be) asleep. Dave Don’t Drink Drive…. It’s A Laundry Detergent
Whilst undoubtedly under the effects of alcohol, matt weber – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O That system, built by a Phoenix company now out of the airline business, was put on to replace an existing system and pioneered interactive entertainment at each seat. But, as a USA TODAY investigation found in February, it was improperly designed, installed and certified by contractors without adequate FAA oversight. The General Accounting Office and the Transportation Department’s inspector general recently began investigating the matter. Why would the FAA be involved? The system was not sold to a single US carrier, nor installed in a single USA registered aircraft. If there was an oversight failure, it was with European/Swiss authorities. Ultimately they are responsible for regulations and control of any equipment installed in a Swiss registered aircraft. However there is a real problem, in that there are NO specific FAA certification requirements for IFE. NO TSO’s, no type certificates, no nothing….
The problem is that these aircraft fly to the US, and the FAA likes to think that it can dictate standards on aircraft registered and operated in other countries which fly to the US. As such, one would think there would be an FAA standard. Sadly, there isn’t. Dave Don’t Drink Drive…. It’s A Laundry Detergent
In-flight entertainment systems linked to scores of jet ‘difficulties’ By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY Unless I’m flying with NWA, I’m too busy shagging a couple of the stewardesses to bother about in-flight entertainment.
Something wrong with the NWA flight attendents?
Why would the FAA be involved? The system was not sold to a single US carrier, nor installed in a single USA registered aircraft. If there was an oversight failure, it was with European/Swiss authorities. Ultimately they are responsible for regulations and control of any equipment installed in a Swiss registered aircraft.
Actually, the FAA does have authority (responsibility can be argued). The US manufacturer produces part for an aircraft with a FAA-issued type certificate, and such the full force of Part 21 applies to him, whether the part is sold to a foreign entity or not. However there is a real problem, in that there are NO specific FAA certification requirements for IFE. NO TSO’s, no type certificates, no nothing….
There’s no such thing as a type certificate for appliances. Many things on an aircraft don’t have a TSO either.
But Candace Kolander of the Association of Flight Attendants union says the airline industry has become too obsessed with pleasing passengers. Discuss.
When the US carriers first went into the old Soviet block/eastern Europe, the hardest time they had training new employees was in being pleasant to customers. Being indoctrinated since birth, in the Marxist ideology, that jobs were a right and customers were a given, it was hard to sift out the old attitudes. Sound familiars. Tom — "There are many who find a good alibi far more attractive than an achievement. For an achievement does not settle anything permanently. We still have to prove our worth anew each day: we have to prove that we are as good today as we were yesterday. But when we have a valid alibi for not achieving anything we are fixed, so to speak, for life." – Eric Hoffer
In-flight entertainment systems linked to scores of jet ‘difficulties’ By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY
Unless I’m flying with NWA, I’m too busy shagging a couple of the stewardesses to bother about in-flight entertainment. Cheers Phil
Once had a blind passenger ask for a window seat, odd. Not really. A window is very useful for leaning your pillow against if you want to try to sleep, much more effective than trying to lean against an aisle. –==++AJC++==–
Yep that’s true, we figured he probably just wanted a seat where people wouldn’t have to get up to let people in and out during the trip. — Trevor Fenn There are too many zz’s in my email address above. Take two zz’s and email me in the morning. "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just" The Star Spangled Banner Francis Scott Key
Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking out the window of an airplane…
And exactly how many people in a typical wide body jet can actually see out of a window? — Roland Perry
: Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking : out the window of an airplane… Especially the front one — George Black ICQ#: 6963409 More ways to contact me: http://wwp.icq.com/6963409 Home page: http://www.koekejunction.hnpl.net/
Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking out the window of an airplane…
For 23 hours? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
But Candace Kolander of the Association of Flight Attendants union says the airline industry has become too obsessed with pleasing passengers. Discuss.
Candace Kolander? Is that Xaviera Hollander’s sister?
But Candace Kolander of the Association of Flight Attendants union says the airline industry has become too obsessed with pleasing passengers. Discuss. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
It is American and so, unfortunately, it doesn’t include anyone employed by Ryanair. JohnT
But Candace Kolander of the Association of Flight Attendants union says the airline industry has become too obsessed with pleasing passengers.
Discuss. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net: Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking out the window of an airplane… —
Can’t do that these days coz the people who ask for window seats are the ones who want to watch 20 year old game shows on the satellite TV so they keep the shades down. Once had a blind passenger ask for a window seat, odd. — Trevor Fenn There are too many zz’s in my email address above. Take two zz’s and email me in the morning. "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just" The Star Spangled Banner Francis Scott Key
no offense, but from 39000 looking down on a cloud covered ocean?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking out the window of an airplane… — Gene Seibel Hangar 131 – http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html Because I fly, I envy no one. In-flight entertainment systems linked to scores of jet ‘difficulties’ By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY As a Boeing 757 airliner climbed to 14,000 feet in March, a routine takeoff suddenly became an emergency. Sparks and smoke came out of the passenger cabin’s in-flight entertainment system, cockpit instrument lights lit up, and the rudder and control wheel moved. The pilots, who reported the incident to a government safety database, said they returned for an "uneventful" landing. The database doesn’t identify the airline involved or the U.S. airport the flight diverted to, but the timing of the event was significant. It was the same month the Canadian government concluded that entertainment system wiring may have caused or contributed to a fire that sent a Swissair jet into the ocean near Nova Scotia in 1998, killing all 229 aboard. The Canadian Transportation Safety Board said an entertainment system wire or another wire short-circuited, creating a fiery electric arc that ignited acoustic insulation blankets. Despite intense scrutiny after the Swissair accident, in-flight entertainment systems continue to malfunction, and U.S. airlines are still being ordered to modify some systems. A USA TODAY analysis found that since the Swissair accident, U.S. airlines have sent the Federal Aviation Administration 60 "service difficulty reports" about in-flight entertainment systems, many involving fire, smoke or sparks. Airlines are required by the FAA to report within 72 hours each "failure, malfunction or defect" that endangers an aircraft’s safe operation. Pilots and flight attendants have voluntarily reported to another government database 20 incidents of entertainment system problems. It’s unknown how many of those incidents are also included in the service difficulty reports. The FAA has also sent 22 orders to ban, modify or repair certain entertainment systems. Most of those orders resulted from an investigation done by the agency after the Swissair crash. "The time is long past that we can consider these systems as risk-free," says Jim Shaw, a pilot and a safety expert for the Air Line Pilots Association union. "I know many instances where problems with in-flight entertainment systems created smoke and fire events," he says, speaking for himself. The union wouldn’t comment. Many jets have traditional in-flight entertainment systems with overhead movie screens shared by rows of passengers. Others, particularly new, wide-body planes flying international routes, contain more sophisticated equipment with individual screens that allow passengers to choose a movie, play games, shop or gamble. Upstart airline JetBlue offers live satellite TV on monitors at every seat. Some major airlines offer video or audio entertainment on most of their planes, while some, such as Southwest, have no jets with such equipment. Consultant Wale Adepoju estimates that 5,100 of 11,650 planes worldwide with 100 or more seats have some form of entertainment system, and about 2,000 of those aircraft have at least some seats equipped with individual video screens. Of about 3,700 wide-body aircraft in the global airline fleet, nearly 80% have some form of entertainment system, Adepoju says. Manufacturers insist that the most sophisticated entertainment systems, as well as older ones, are safe and meet FAA standards. They blame the type installed on Swissair, which was banned a year after the crash, for giving everyone in the industry a bad name. That system, built by a Phoenix company now out of the airline business, was put on to replace an existing system and pioneered interactive entertainment at each seat. But, as a USA TODAY investigation found in February, it was improperly designed, installed and certified by contractors without adequate FAA oversight. The General Accounting Office and the Transportation Department’s inspector general recently began investigating the matter. Other systems, though, have had problems since the Swissair accident. Safety experts say the number of service difficulty reports about entertainment system problems endangering passenger safety during the past two years could far exceed the 60 received by the FAA. "The 60 reports are probably just the tip of the iceberg," says Alex Richman, whose company, AlgoPlus Consulting, analyzes FAA data for some aircraft operators. "More incidents probably go unreported than are reported." The FAA’s 22 orders to ban, modify or repair entertainment systems involve those that airlines installed to replace previous ones. The orders apply to the equipment on eight types of Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Airbus jets. More pounds, more wires An entertainment system adds thousands of pounds to a jet. It consists of more than 2,000 parts and, on a fully equipped wide-body jet, uses about 41/2 miles of wire, says Greg Steiner, a vice president at entertainment system manufacturer Rockwell Collins. Ed Block, a former Defense Department employee involved in wiring purchases, inspected wiring on various jets for an FAA task force and for Swissair victims’ families. It’s his opinion that all in-flight entertainment systems should be banned because they have electrical wiring and components that can malfunction and start a fire during flight. The aviation industry has been grappling for years with problems of cracked and deteriorated wiring causing fires and emergency landings, he says. Adding four miles of entertainment system wire to a jet that may have more than 100 miles of other wires is "like throwing gas on a fire." Ken Adams, who was the Air Line Pilots Association’s lead investigator in the Swissair crash, doesn’t think the systems must be scrapped. But he says they need to be better designed and suggests studying the use of fiber-optics instead of electrical wiring. "Any time you’re adding more and more electrical systems, you’re compounding the problem," he says. In a statement to USA TODAY, the FAA says entertainment systems are safe and that it "takes a very rigorous approach to approving non-essential systems." The agency says it has done in-depth reviews of the entertainment systems on airplanes, has taken action to make sure no system in use has the same design features as the one on the Swissair jet, and has issued directives designed to prevent any unsafe conditions from developing. Manufacturers say their systems must meet FAA and aircraft manufacturers’ standards and tests. "Safety is the absolute first priority," says Rob Brookler of the World Airline Entertainment Association, which represents manufacturers, suppliers and airlines. "We’d support any procedures that would further enhance the safety of the systems." The Air Transport Association, a trade group representing U.S. airlines, refused to comment about in-flight entertainment systems. Northwest Airlines, which flies many long-distance flights with such systems aboard, says it buys "the appropriate, proven system recommended by the aircraft manufacturer." JetBlue says the airline’s in-seat live television systems were certified by the FAA. The airline says it has had "no issues" with them. United Airlines says its in-flight entertainment systems are safe because they are continuously monitored by its maintenance department "for any irregularities or reliability issues that require attention." United says its systems have not been cited in any FAA orders and are not similar to those that were on the Swissair plane that crashed. Reports of problems Most of the 60 reports filed by airlines with the FAA, which were provided to USA TODAY by AlgoPlus Consulting, mention fire, smoke, sparks, an electrical short-circuit or burning odor in the passenger cabin. NASA collects such incident data for the FAA. Among the confidential reports given to NASA by airline flight crews, which NASA says are not verified for accuracy: .A flight attendant on a Boeing 767 flight last August reported that she became nauseated, her eyes and throat burned and a passenger vomited after breathing fumes from a malfunctioning video system. .On an Airbus A-300 plane in December 2000, a flight attendant reported passengers standing in the aisle during landing as "smoke, sparks and a flame" came from an entertainment system box under a passenger seat. .A pilot reported smoke "pouring out" of an entertainment unit on a 767 international flight in April 2000. .In February 1999, a flight attendant on a McDonnell Douglas MD-11 flying over Alaska said it was hard to breathe because of a burning wire odor coming from a video system. The FAA says such reports from crew members are voluntary and can’t be used to decide how prevalent a problem is. The 22 orders from the
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Don’t know what "entertainment" could possibly be better than looking out the window of an airplane… — Gene Seibel Hangar 131 – http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html Because I fly, I envy no one.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In-flight entertainment systems linked to scores of jet ‘difficulties’ By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY As a Boeing 757 airliner climbed to 14,000 feet in March, a routine takeoff suddenly became an emergency. Sparks and smoke came out of the passenger cabin’s in-flight entertainment system, cockpit instrument lights lit up, and the rudder and control wheel moved. The pilots, who reported the incident to a government safety database, said they returned for an "uneventful" landing. The database doesn’t identify the airline involved or the U.S. airport the flight diverted to, but the timing of the event was significant. It was the same month the Canadian government concluded that entertainment system wiring may have caused or contributed to a fire that sent a Swissair jet into the ocean near Nova Scotia in 1998, killing all 229 aboard. The Canadian Transportation Safety Board said an entertainment system wire or another wire short-circuited, creating a fiery electric arc that ignited acoustic insulation blankets. Despite intense scrutiny after the Swissair accident, in-flight entertainment systems continue to malfunction, and U.S. airlines are still being ordered to modify some systems. A USA TODAY analysis found that since the Swissair accident, U.S. airlines have sent the Federal Aviation Administration 60 "service difficulty reports" about in-flight entertainment systems, many involving fire, smoke or sparks. Airlines are required by the FAA to report within 72 hours each "failure, malfunction or defect" that endangers an aircraft’s safe operation. Pilots and flight attendants have voluntarily reported to another government database 20 incidents of entertainment system problems. It’s unknown how many of those incidents are also included in the service difficulty reports. The FAA has also sent 22 orders to ban, modify or repair certain entertainment systems. Most of those orders resulted from an investigation done by the agency after the Swissair crash. "The time is long past that we can consider these systems as risk-free," says Jim Shaw, a pilot and a safety expert for the Air Line Pilots Association union. "I know many instances where problems with in-flight entertainment systems created smoke and fire events," he says, speaking for himself. The union wouldn’t comment. Many jets have traditional in-flight entertainment systems with overhead movie screens shared by rows of passengers. Others, particularly new, wide-body planes flying international routes, contain more sophisticated equipment with individual screens that allow passengers to choose a movie, play games, shop or gamble. Upstart airline JetBlue offers live satellite TV on monitors at every seat. Some major airlines offer video or audio entertainment on most of their planes, while some, such as Southwest, have no jets with such equipment. Consultant Wale Adepoju estimates that 5,100 of 11,650 planes worldwide with 100 or more seats have some form of entertainment system, and about 2,000 of those aircraft have at least some seats equipped with individual video screens. Of about 3,700 wide-body aircraft in the global airline fleet, nearly 80% have some form of entertainment system, Adepoju says. Manufacturers insist that the most sophisticated entertainment systems, as well as older ones, are safe and meet FAA standards. They blame the type installed on Swissair, which was banned a year after the crash, for giving everyone in the industry a bad name. That system, built by a Phoenix company now out of the airline business, was put on to replace an existing system and pioneered interactive
entertainment at each seat. But, as a USA TODAY investigation found in February, it was improperly designed, installed and certified by contractors without adequate FAA oversight. The General Accounting Office and the Transportation Department’s inspector general recently began investigating the matter. Other systems, though, have had problems since the Swissair accident. Safety experts say the number of service difficulty reports about
entertainment system – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – problems endangering passenger safety during the past two years could far exceed the 60 received by the FAA. "The 60 reports are probably just the tip of the iceberg," says Alex Richman, whose company, AlgoPlus Consulting, analyzes FAA data for some aircraft operators. "More incidents probably go unreported than are reported." The FAA’s 22 orders to ban, modify or repair entertainment systems involve those that airlines installed to replace previous ones. The orders apply to the equipment on eight types of Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Airbus jets. More pounds, more wires An entertainment system adds thousands of pounds to a jet. It consists of more than 2,000 parts and, on a fully equipped wide-body jet, uses about 41/2 miles of wire, says Greg Steiner, a vice president at entertainment system manufacturer Rockwell Collins. Ed Block, a former Defense Department employee involved in wiring purchases, inspected wiring on various jets for an FAA task force and for Swissair victims’ families. It’s his opinion that all in-flight entertainment systems should be banned because they have electrical wiring and components that can malfunction and start a fire during flight. The aviation industry has been grappling for years with problems of cracked and deteriorated wiring causing fires and emergency landings, he says. Adding four miles of entertainment system wire to a jet that may have more than 100 miles of other wires is "like throwing gas on a fire." Ken Adams, who was the Air Line Pilots Association’s lead investigator in the Swissair crash, doesn’t think the systems must be scrapped. But he says they need to be better designed and suggests studying the use of
fiber-optics instead – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of electrical wiring. "Any time you’re adding more and more electrical systems, you’re compounding the problem," he says. In a statement to USA TODAY, the FAA says entertainment systems are safe and that it "takes a very rigorous approach to approving non-essential systems." The agency says it has done in-depth reviews of the entertainment systems on airplanes, has taken action to make sure no system in use has the same design features as the one on the Swissair jet, and has issued directives designed to prevent any unsafe conditions from developing. Manufacturers say their systems must meet FAA and aircraft manufacturers’ standards and tests. "Safety is the absolute first priority," says Rob Brookler of the World Airline Entertainment Association, which represents manufacturers, suppliers and airlines. "We’d support any procedures that would further enhance the safety of the systems." The Air Transport Association, a trade group representing U.S. airlines, refused to comment about in-flight entertainment systems. Northwest Airlines, which flies many long-distance flights with such systems aboard, says it buys "the appropriate, proven system recommended by the aircraft
manufacturer." JetBlue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says the airline’s in-seat live television systems were certified by the FAA. The airline says it has had "no issues" with them. United Airlines says its in-flight entertainment systems are safe because they are continuously monitored by its maintenance department "for any irregularities or reliability issues that require attention." United says its systems have not been cited in any FAA orders and are not similar to those that were on the Swissair plane that crashed. Reports of problems Most of the 60 reports filed by airlines with the FAA, which were provided to USA TODAY by AlgoPlus Consulting, mention fire, smoke, sparks, an electrical short-circuit or burning odor in the passenger cabin. NASA collects such incident data for the FAA. Among the confidential reports given to NASA by airline flight crews, which NASA says are not verified for accuracy: .A flight attendant on a Boeing 767 flight last August reported that she became nauseated, her eyes and throat burned and a passenger vomited after breathing fumes from a malfunctioning video system. .On an Airbus A-300 plane in December 2000, a flight attendant reported passengers standing in the aisle during landing as "smoke, sparks and a flame" came from an entertainment system box under a passenger seat. .A pilot reported smoke "pouring out" of an entertainment unit on a 767 international flight in April 2000. .In February 1999, a flight attendant on a McDonnell Douglas MD-11 flying over Alaska said it was hard to breathe because of a burning wire odor coming from a video system. The FAA says such reports from crew members are voluntary and can’t be used to decide how prevalent a problem is. The 22 orders from the FAA after the Swissair crash came when the agency reviewed systems that, like the one on the Swissair McDonnell Douglas MD-11 jet, were put in as replacements between 1992 and 2000. The orders involved systems on at least 182 planes, including removal of the entire system on six Douglas DC-9s. It also ordered removal of an unspecified number of systems on DC-10s and 767s. And corrections were ordered for some systems on other 767s, 757s, 747s, 737s, MD-11s, DC-10s and Airbus A-340s. Ten of the 22 orders, including one issued in December for an unspecified number of 767-300s, instructed airlines to install switches that allow the systems to shed an electrical load or to be turned off
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Hi! We as a bookkeeping service are considering a Marketing Plan to offer a referral fee of $10-15 per hour to the accountants who refer new clients for bookkeeping to us. Say, for example, if we get 50 hrs of bookeeping work in a month, we pay $500-750 to the referring CPA for that month and this commission will continue on a recurring basis throughout the lifetime of the account. We intend to charge our clients per hour rate for the bookkeeping service at $30 per hour. However, a question has cropped up whether it is legal to offer such a commission? Also, if legal, what should be the appropriate level of commission? Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans. any help would be appreciated. Thanks
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! We as a bookkeeping service are considering a Marketing Plan to offer a referral fee of $10-15 per hour to the accountants who refer new clients for bookkeeping to us. Say, for example, if we get 50 hrs of bookeeping work in a month, we pay $500-750 to the referring CPA for that month and this commission will continue on a recurring basis throughout the lifetime of the account. We intend to charge our clients per hour rate for the bookkeeping service at $30 per hour. However, a question has cropped up whether it is legal to offer such a commission? Also, if legal, what should be the appropriate level of commission? Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans. any help would be appreciated. Thanks
This plan may be legal, but it may cause some CPA’s an ethical problem. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! We as a bookkeeping service are considering a Marketing Plan to offer a referral fee of $10-15 per hour to the accountants who refer new clients for bookkeeping to us. Say, for example, if we get 50 hrs of bookeeping work in a month, we pay $500-750 to the referring CPA for that month and this commission will continue on a recurring basis throughout the lifetime of the account. We intend to charge our clients per hour rate for the bookkeeping service at $30 per hour. However, a question has cropped up whether it is legal to offer such a commission? Also, if legal, what should be the appropriate level of commission? Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans. any help would be appreciated. Thanks
I might be wrong but I believe such an arrangement is legal BBUUTT I believe if the CPA is a member of the AICPA or most state societies/associations the relationship MUST be disclosed and the amount of compensation revealed. I would not enter into such an arrangement. Rgs, Mark
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We as a bookkeeping service are considering a Marketing Plan to offer a referral fee of $10-15 per hour to the accountants who refer new clients for bookkeeping to us. Say, for example, if we get 50 hrs of bookeeping work in a month, we pay $500-750 to the referring CPA for that month and this commission will continue on a recurring basis throughout the lifetime of the account. We intend to charge our clients per hour rate for the bookkeeping service at $30 per hour. However, a question has cropped up whether it is legal to offer such a commission? Also, if legal, what should be the appropriate level of commission? Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans. any help would be appreciated. Thanks I might be wrong but I believe such an arrangement is legal BBUUTT I believe if the CPA is a member of the AICPA or most state societies/associations the relationship MUST be disclosed and the amount of compensation revealed. I would not enter into such an arrangement. Rgs, Mark
this is my understanding, similar to CPAs selling insurance, i don’t think i would want to make that disclosure – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I might be wrong but I believe such an arrangement is legal BBUUTT I believe if the CPA is a member of the AICPA or most state societies/associations the relationship MUST be disclosed and the amount of compensation revealed. I would not enter into such an arrangement. Rgs, Mark this is my understanding, similar to CPAs selling insurance, i don’t think i would want to make that disclosure
I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? If the CPA assessed that the quality of service referred to is good, what is the harm in earning that extra dollar, which could run into a few thousand dollars a month on a continuing basis, even if the number of referrals is as low as 4 to 5? I believe, if the CPA feels it would not be entirely ethical,he could disclose to the client that he does have an interest in the referred to service, without indicating the extent of interest. The fact that clients trust the CPA is because of his abilities and an assurance that he guides them properly, whichis enough to justify their belief that he would not misguide them even when referring to a bookkeeping service. And the CPA should do it only if he is personally conviced that he is referring his clients to a service which is actually good. In that situation, referral is perhaps not unethical. Regards Sangeeta
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans. The referral fee itself is legal. The CPA must disclose to the "referee" that he is getting such a fee, and the amount of it. Assuming the CPA is familiar with your operation and feels you are trustworthy, I (unlike the others) don’t see why it would cause an ethical dillema. I’m not sure about the continuing part though. It no longer sounds like a referral fee to me at that point. — Todd Stephens
That too is referral fee in my opinion. Instead of giving a referral fee of say, 20,000 dollars in one go, it is spread over a period of time and covers the risks involved for the referred. Thanks Sangeeta
I might be wrong but I believe such an arrangement is legal BBUUTT I believe if the CPA is a member of the AICPA or most state
societies/associations – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the relationship MUST be disclosed and the amount of compensation revealed. I would not enter into such an arrangement. Rgs, Mark this is my understanding, similar to CPAs selling insurance, i don’t think i would want to make that disclosure I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? If the CPA assessed that the quality of service referred to is good, what is the harm in earning that extra dollar, which could run into a few thousand dollars a month on a continuing basis, even if the number of referrals is as low as 4 to 5? I believe, if the CPA feels it would not be entirely ethical,he could disclose to the client that he does have an interest in the referred to service, without indicating the extent of interest. The fact that clients trust the CPA is because of his abilities and an assurance that he guides them properly, whichis enough to justify their belief that he would not misguide them even when referring to a bookkeeping service. And the CPA should do it only if he is personally conviced that he is referring his clients to a service which is actually good. In that situation, referral is perhaps not unethical. Regards Sangeeta
It is not really any different from anything else – EXCEPT a CPA is involved. Because of the nature of being a CPA (licensed by the respective state to express a professional opinion on a set of financial statements) there is a perception that CPAs are independent from "outside" influence" (and I would hope rightfully so – excluding such gross situations as Eron, Worldcom, …) This independence is a valued trait. I use it every day. I criticize the portfolios of my clients. The brokers, insurance salespeople, and others I work with know that if I see something that does not make sense they will hear from me. How many CPAs have not seen the widow with Social Security, a small pension and a small retirement plan being sold a Universal Life policy by an AMEX "professional"? I’m sorry to say that there are many CPAs who do feel as you do. Ethically My state society (Michigan) and the American Institute of CPAs have both ruled that the relationship described REQUIRES disclosure to the client and the disclosure MUST include the basis of compensation. — Regards, Mark X Rigotti
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. Jim Hudspeth, CPA I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
Ron, Unlike you and I there are a lot of CPAs out there "WHOREing" insurance and mutuals. <BG I agree with the trust factor. That is our biggest asset. — Regards, Mark X Rigotti
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans. The referral fee itself is legal. The CPA must disclose to the "referee" that he is getting such a fee, and the amount of it. Assuming the CPA is familiar with your operation and feels you are trustworthy, I (unlike the others) don’t see why it would cause an ethical dillema. I’m not sure about the continuing part though. It no longer sounds like a referral fee to me at that point. — Todd Stephens Just a question (I’m a student). How would this differ from a husband and wife opening a CPA/accounting firm under one roof? The wife is a CPA and the husband an accountant, both draw business from a somewhat similar customer pool. Referrals could be either express or implied (just because of the convenience). No referral fee is exchanged but because of the common business, any business brought in subsidizes the fixed costs of running the business (rent, machines, etc.). Actually, the wife/husband example might confuse issues, how about a partnership under one roof? Is this legal? Should there be a disclosure? What level of disclosure? Embedded in a contract for regular customers, a more explicit disclosure for joint customers? Is it ethical? Bill
Bill, In Michigan non CPAs may only own up to 30% of a CPA firm. — Regards, Mark X Rigotti
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t want to start a pissing contest. But Attorneys do it all the time. Doctors used to do it. Insurance agents do it. Stock Brokers do it. Just about everybody does it. Only reason this is coming up for CPA’s is that in the last few years this has been allowed by the canon of ethics of the CPA’s. Mike I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. Jim Hudspeth, CPA I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
Mike, The fact that other professions do it does not make it right. Like I tell my 15 year old son just because everyone cheats on a test does not make it right. This is an ethical issue and the state societies and our national society have ruled that this situation REQUIRES disclosure. I support this 100% — Regards, Mark X Rigotti
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. Jim Hudspeth, CPA I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. Ron, Unlike you and I there are a lot of CPAs out there "WHOREing" insurance and mutuals. <BG I agree with the trust factor. That is our biggest asset.
I wonder how many of them completely inform the marks about the true cost of whole life insurance, what the components are, and what the true cost is. The same goes for the total return of load mutual funds versus no load mutual funds. My guess is none. Soon, less than two decades, I expect the profession to be destroyed. I further expect the destruction to be from within has it always has been. One big implosion. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Hudspeth, CPA wrote I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. Your opinion gets tainted (see clear examples with AA/Enron, etc) when there is money to be made or lost on your recommendation. A professional should get paid for their unbiased professional opinion, and not because they made a great sales pitch for a product or service that they directly benefit from. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia
AMEN — Regards, Mark X Rigotti
snip a bunch of stuf Not being argumentative, but curious: How would this differ from a CPA that is retiring, or otherwise leaving the business, who sells his practice? Your not selling a product to the general public. Your exchanging your customer list and files to another practitioner for their worth, your liquidating your equity and leaving the market. Conception ally it has no relationship to selling products or services to your client base on commission.
I don’t know – it seems to me in both cases, you are saying I recommend you (use this bookkeeping service) (have this new guy do your tax return). In exchange, you are being paid. I agree that, in a lot of cases, the new guy has been around for a few years, but not in all cases. I would think the financial incentive would be a lot more influential when you sell your practice vs. the recommendation of bookkeeping services.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Hudspeth, CPA wrote I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. Your opinion gets tainted (see clear examples with AA/Enron, etc) when there is money to be made or lost on your recommendation. A professional should get paid for their unbiased professional opinion, and not because they made a great sales pitch for a product or service that they directly benefit from.
Not being argumentative, but curious: How would this differ from a CPA that is retiring, or otherwise leaving the business, who sells his practice?
Not being argumentative, but curious: How would this differ from a CPA that is retiring, or otherwise leaving the business, who sells his practice?
Most practices are sold under one of two scenarios. One being the payment of X% of the billings/collections over a number of years. The other being a fixed amount (paid up front or over time). Generally the clients know the practitioner is retiring and the "new guy" is taking over. I don’t think in this case the clients have to be told of the financial arrangements. In the end, the retiring practitioner is out of the picture and not continuing to provide services to the client. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia
Jim Hudspeth, CPA wrote I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered.
I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work.
Your opinion gets tainted (see clear examples with AA/Enron, etc) when there is money to be made or lost on your recommendation. A professional should get paid for their unbiased professional opinion, and not because they made a great sales pitch for a product or service that they directly benefit from. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia
Don’t want to start a pissing contest. But Attorneys do it all the time. Doctors used to do it. Insurance agents do it. Stock Brokers do it. Just about everybody does it. Only reason this is coming up for CPA’s is that in the last few years this has been allowed by the canon of ethics of the CPA’s. Mike
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. Jim Hudspeth, CPA I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
How would this differ from a husband and wife opening a CPA/accounting firm under one roof? The wife is a CPA and the husband an accountant, both draw business from a somewhat similar customer pool. Referrals could be either express or implied (just because of the convenience). No referral fee is exchanged but because of the common business, any business brought in subsidizes the fixed costs of running the business (rent, machines, etc.). Actually, the wife/husband example might confuse issues, how about a partnership under one roof?
Everything depends on how it gets presented. If in that situation the CPA says "We can handle it for you", then the client sees it as one firm, regardless of how it actually gets billed out. And, as long as no funds are paid directly or indirectly to the other entiry based on the volume of work, or profits, etc, then I don’t see a problem. Two separate entities under the same roof need to make their clients aware that there are, two different businesses under the same roof. Such is the case in my office, where I share a reception area with a financial planner. He pays me rent, but no other money changes hands if I were to refer him some business or he refers me some business. Both of our clients know that his business is separate from mine, and vice-versa. Clients that get refered are made aware that there are two separate businesses. Now, I might buy him a nice lunch when he sends me a nice client, a crappy lunch if he sends me a crappy client, so-on and so-forth. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Hudspeth, CPA wrote I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. Your opinion gets tainted (see clear examples with AA/Enron, etc) when there is money to be made or lost on your recommendation. A professional should get paid for their unbiased professional opinion, and not because they made a great sales pitch for a product or service that they directly benefit from. Not being argumentative, but curious: How would this differ from a CPA that is retiring, or otherwise leaving the business, who sells his practice?
Your not selling a product to the general public. Your exchanging your customer list and files to another practitioner for their worth, your liquidating your equity and leaving the market. Conception ally it has no relationship to selling products or services to your client base on commission. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Hudspeth, CPA wrote I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. Your opinion gets tainted (see clear examples with AA/Enron, etc) when there is money to be made or lost on your recommendation. A professional should get paid for their unbiased professional opinion, and not because they made a great sales pitch for a product or service that they directly benefit from.
You damned right. Fee for professional service PERIOD. Anything else your going to end up dragging your reputation (and the rest of us ticket holders) in the sewer with the rest of the commission men and ten percenters. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
Big quotes " Just because everyone else does it, doesn’t mean it is right. " U.S. Attorneys long ago burned their reputations at the alter of satan. (Something like the early 1800s when they went with contingency fees.) Doctors never had a reputation, although they have pushed the public relations service to the wall. Insurance Agents and Stock Brokers have always been considered whores. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t want to start a pissing contest. But Attorneys do it all the time. Doctors used to do it. Insurance agents do it. Stock Brokers do it. Just about everybody does it. Only reason this is coming up for CPA’s is that in the last few years this has been allowed by the canon of ethics of the CPA’s. Mike I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. Jim Hudspeth, CPA I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
– * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
Hi! Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans.
The referral fee itself is legal. The CPA must disclose to the "referee" that he is getting such a fee, and the amount of it. Assuming the CPA is familiar with your operation and feels you are trustworthy, I (unlike the others) don’t see why it would cause an ethical dillema. I’m not sure about the continuing part though. It no longer sounds like a referral fee to me at that point. — Todd Stephens
I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs?
I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. Jim Hudspeth, CPA
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tend to agree with Bob. I am curious to know from Mark how this referral program is different from so many other referral programs in so many other fields. Are all these referral programs to be considered unethical or his comments would apply only to situations pertaining to CPAs? I don’t accept referral fees – period. Any referral I provide is based entirely on my perception of the need involved and the adaquacy of the service offered. Jim Hudspeth, CPA
I have never been able to accept the arguments for a CPA taking a commission or a referral fee (a euphemism for a commission) for non attest business. IMHO, it is the same thing as standing up and saying " I am a whore. " If a person will take a fee for a referral how can they possibly be trusted for any other work. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Also I would appreciate comments on the effectiveness of such a campaign. Is this the best way to market our services or there could be some other effective marketing plans. The referral fee itself is legal. The CPA must disclose to the "referee" that he is getting such a fee, and the amount of it. Assuming the CPA is familiar with your operation and feels you are trustworthy, I (unlike the others) don’t see why it would cause an ethical dillema. I’m not sure about the continuing part though. It no longer sounds like a referral fee to me at that point. — Todd Stephens
Just a question (I’m a student). How would this differ from a husband and wife opening a CPA/accounting firm under one roof? The wife is a CPA and the husband an accountant, both draw business from a somewhat similar customer pool. Referrals could be either express or implied (just because of the convenience). No referral fee is exchanged but because of the common business, any business brought in subsidizes the fixed costs of running the business (rent, machines, etc.). Actually, the wife/husband example might confuse issues, how about a partnership under one roof? Is this legal? Should there be a disclosure? What level of disclosure? Embedded in a contract for regular customers, a more explicit disclosure for joint customers? Is it ethical? Bill
i got my old job back! azure
Wonderful news !! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
: ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
Great, congratulations azure. Ruth
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
i got my old job back! azure
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Azure! this is fabulous news! I know you loved that job. Congratulations! Great going twin! marbet
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
yay for you congrats! Leigh
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
That is soooo awesome Congrats
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
i got my old job back! azure
Great!!!!! Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown
i got my old job back!
Yay! That’s great, azure. jean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – azure
YIPPEEEEE!!! YEAH!!!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!!! polly wog
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
i got my old job back! azure
Congratulations azure! I am very happy for you. Ann (SeaBee)
That’s Grrrrrrrreeeeeeaaaaaattttttt! Congrats. Shar
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got my old job back! azure
That’s wonderful!! Congratulations! Peace and strength, TideRider
| i got my old job back! | | azure | |
neat – oooooo one down and 24 million to go. new Anderson accounting in Bushspeak shows the recession is twice as worse as before, inflation is happening, and the 5.8% growth he was shouting about last month – well its really 1.1%. Twice as worse as it was before the previous quarter. so happy for you and glad you got it during these hard times of Kenny Boys and Ben Laudins loose and fancy free to perpatrate on the little people with there insider secret dealing fast track money games. sumbuddie who cares :*) i got my old job back! azure
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From a logical standpoint, payroll tax varies directly with wages paid, so I should think it would be part of direct labour costs. — Ken Russell Sydney Hello everyone, I’m trying to find the answer to this question, but it’s not in any textbook I own, and two CPA’s have given me the run around. When using Job Order Costing, do you capitalize the company’s share of payroll taxes as Direct Labor or as Manufacturing Overhead? If neither, is this simply a period expense? I’m trying to develop a job-order costing system for a small auto shop, and the difference in each method is highly material. Thanks for your help. Robert
If this were job cost accounting I KNOW it would be part of direct labor. In this case I strongly suspect that Ken is correct (I have no manufacturing clients). — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!dns.phoenix-ag.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed 00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.cwix.com !newsfeed.bcn.ttd.net!news.bcn.ttd.net!u_n_a__c_ancel Newsgroups: comp.lang.c,alt.accounting Organization: Telefonica Transmision de Datos Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.77.196.2 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40458661 autocancel
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From a logical standpoint, payroll tax varies directly with wages paid, so I should think it would be part of direct labour costs. — Ken Russell Sydney Hello everyone, I’m trying to find the answer to this question, but it’s not in any textbook I own, and two CPA’s have given me the run around. When using Job Order Costing, do you capitalize the company’s share of payroll taxes as Direct Labor or as Manufacturing Overhead? If neither, is this simply a period expense? I’m trying to develop a job-order costing system for a small auto shop, and the difference in each method is highly material. Thanks for your help. Robert
If this were job cost accounting I KNOW it would be part of direct labor. In this case I strongly suspect that Ken is correct (I have no manufacturing clients). — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Hello everyone, I’m trying to find the answer to this question, but it’s not in any textbook I own, and two CPA’s have given me the run around.
The answer is either provided explicitly or is deducible from the information contained in every cost or managerial accounting text I’ve ever owned. When using Job Order Costing, do you capitalize the company’s share of payroll taxes as Direct Labor or as Manufacturing Overhead?
Yes. easy2000
Hello everyone, I’m trying to find the answer to this question, but it’s not in any textbook I own, and two CPA’s have given me the run around.
The answer is either provided explicitly or is deducible from the information contained in every cost or managerial accounting text I’ve ever owned. When using Job Order Costing, do you capitalize the company’s share of payroll taxes as Direct Labor or as Manufacturing Overhead?
Yes. easy2000 Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!dns.phoenix-ag.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed 00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!fr.clara.ne t!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1. bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.bcn.ttd.net!news.bcn .ttd.net!u_n_a__c_ancel Newsgroups: comp.lang.c,alt.accounting Organization: Telefonica Transmision de Datos Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.77.196.2 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40457761 autocancel
From a logical standpoint, payroll tax varies directly with wages paid, so I should think it would be part of direct labour costs. — Ken Russell Sydney
Hello everyone, I’m trying to find the answer to this question, but it’s not in any textbook I own, and two CPA’s have given me the run around. When using Job Order Costing, do you capitalize the company’s share of payroll taxes as Direct Labor or as Manufacturing Overhead? If neither, is this simply a period expense? I’m trying to develop a job-order costing system for a small auto shop, and the difference in each method is highly material. Thanks for your help. Robert Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!dns.phoenix-ag.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online .de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!20 4.71.34.15!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.bcn.ttd.net!news.bc n.ttd.net!u_n_a__c_ancel Newsgroups: comp.lang.c,alt.accounting Organization: Telefonica Transmision de Datos Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.77.196.2 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40458892 autocancel
Hello everyone, I’m trying to find the answer to this question, but it’s not in any textbook I own, and two CPA’s have given me the run around. When using Job Order Costing, do you capitalize the company’s share of payroll taxes as Direct Labor or as Manufacturing Overhead? If neither, is this simply a period expense? I’m trying to develop a job-order costing system for a small auto shop, and the difference in each method is highly material. Thanks for your help. Robert
From a logical standpoint, payroll tax varies directly with wages paid, so I should think it would be part of direct labour costs. — Ken Russell Sydney
Hello everyone, I’m trying to find the answer to this question, but it’s not in any textbook I own, and two CPA’s have given me the run around. When using Job Order Costing, do you capitalize the company’s share of payroll taxes as Direct Labor or as Manufacturing Overhead? If neither, is this simply a period expense? I’m trying to develop a job-order costing system for a small auto shop, and the difference in each method is highly material. Thanks for your help. Robert
Thanks taxlady! Unfortunately, alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks doesn’t seem to be carried on my newserver. There is a alt.comp.software.financial.quicken though. Are you sure alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks exists? If you’re sure, I’ll try to locate it on another news server. Dent
Dent, Yup, I’m sure. I post on it regularly. I’m pretty sure you can find it on Deja. I can’t help with your tax report question, because I use the Canadian version of QB. Tax reporting seems to be one of the biggest differences from the U.S. version. Ciao, Linda B Get all the Canadian & Quebec tax deductions you deserve QuickBooks
I also extend a Happy Holiday season to all and wish to add a pretty funny list of engineering funnies. Comprehending Engineers – Take One <Great list snipped Oh my Lord! I think I’ve created a *monster*! Thanks for the additions, LeDane. Copied ‘em and have already sent a couple to friends. heh-heh. Ram RV Safety URL: http://www.rvsafety.com
Hilarious, LeDane! Thanks, and happy holidays.
I also extend a Happy Holiday season to all and wish to add a pretty funny list of engineering funnies. Comprehending Engineers – Take One Two engineering students were walking across campus when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?" The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike. She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, "Take what you want." "The second engineer nodded approvingly, "Good choice; the clothes probably wouldn’t have fit." Comprehending Engineers – Take Two To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. Comprehending Engineers-Take Three A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What’s with these guys? We must have been waiting for 15 minutes!" The doctor chimed in, "I don’t know, but I’ve never seen such ineptitude! "The pastor said, "Hey, here comes the greenskeeper. Let’s have a word with him." [dramatic pause] "Hi George. Say, what’s with that group ahead of us? They’re rather slow, aren’t they?" The greenskeeper replied, "Oh, yes, that’s a group of blind firefighters. They lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime." The group was silent for a moment. The pastor said, "That’s so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight." The doctor said, "Good idea. And I’m going to contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there’s anything he can do for them." The engineer said, "Why can’t these guys play at night?" Comprehending Engineers-Take Four There was an engineer who had an exceptional gift for fixing all things mechanical. After serving his company loyally for over 30 years, he happily retired. Several years later the company contacted him regarding a seemingly impossible problem they were having with one of their multimillion dollar machines. They had tried everything and everyone else to get the machine to work but to no avail. In desperation, they called on the retired engineer who had solved so many of their problems in the past. The engineer reluctantly took the challenge. He spent a day studying the huge machine. At the end of the day, he marked a small "x" in chalk on a particular component of the machine and stated, "This is where your problem is." The part was replaced and the machine worked perfectly again. The company received a bill for $50,000 from the engineer for his service. They demanded an itemized accounting of his charges. The engineer responded briefly: One chalk mark $1 Knowing where to put it $49,999 It was paid in full and the engineer retired again in peace. Comprehending Engineers-Take Five What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers? Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets. Comprehending Engineers-Take Six The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?" The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?" The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?" The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?" Comprehending Engineers-Take Seven Three engineering students were gathered together discussing the possible designers of the human body. One said, "It was a mechanical engineer. Just look at all the joints." Another said, "No, it was an electrical engineer. The nervous system has many thousands of electrical connections." The last said, "Actually it was a civil engineer. Who else would run a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area?" Comprehending Engineers-Take Eight "Normal people … believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet." Scott Adams, The Dilbert Principle Comprehending Engineers-Take Nine An architect, an artist and an engineer were discussing whether it was better to spend time with the wife or a mistress. The architect said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid foundation for an enduring relationship. The artist said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because of the passion and mystery he found there. The engineer said, "I like both." "Both?" Engineer: "Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each assume you are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to the lab and get some work done." Comprehending Engineers – Take Ten An engineer was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I’ll turn into a beautiful princess." He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket. The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week." The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket. The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I’ll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want." Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket. Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I’ve told you I’m a beautiful princess, that I’ll stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why won’t you kiss me?" The engineer said, "Look I’m an engineer. I don’t have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that’s cool."
I also extend a Happy Holiday season to all and wish to add a pretty funny list of engineering funnies.
Hi Natalie. Want a cookie? I am willing to share from my Oreo survival pack.
Hi Natalie. Want a cookie? I am willing to share from my Oreo survival pack.
Thanks I could use one.Got any chocolate chip ones? Natalie
Jim, It is good to see you back and sharing your cookies and your interesting conversation that we have missed. Susan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Natalie. Want a cookie? I am willing to share from my Oreo survival pack. Thanks I could use one.Got any chocolate chip ones? Natalie
I understand exactly how you feel. Almost three years ago I asked my husband for a separation. He said wait. We began discussing how to go about a divorce using a paralegal that I had met. Her cost would be $500 + $236 for filing fees. We came up with a plan that he would have extremely liberal visitation. Two weeks later he served me and took my children. I had no choice but to retain a lawyer ($3500). $10,760 later and 2 3/4 years later his visitation is liberal but not what we had originally agreed upon. He chose to be messy. He tried every trick in the book. I asked for legal fees. Received only $850 of the 10k+. I hear that there are "simple", "easy" divorces out there, but I’ve not known of one personally. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The bill just came in yesterday’s mail for the latest batch of legal fees. Over $5000. WAH!!!!!! We’re paying our lawyer off at $300 a month and every penny of this is money well spent because of the settlement we got compared to what she wanted. Our lawyer is charging us a ridiculously low rate and not charging us interest as we pay him off so I have nothing but good to say about him. But boy does this hurt. We have another two years and three months before we’ll be in the clear with him. WAHH!!!!!!! All the things we could have done with that money.!! neccessary. Every last penny of this cost came about because of her absoluitel refusal to do what she should have done without court action, like provide financial disclosure. A copy of the transcript of the settlement came back that she’s been arguing about. It was exactly as WE said it was right from the start. The bill for that bit ot arguing $232.00. What a bitch! Natalie
I think you should shoot her. Go ahead, I won’t tell. Maybe we need to rethink this whole process. Gallagher had a good idea with dumb darts, but they never followed up on it. Why isn’t it okay to just pop someone who is a real pain in the ass? I wouldn’t shoot my ex wife/ Other than not liking me too much, she is a really nice lady. My ex inlaws were okay too. I’m not real fond of a couple of accountants and the guy who worked on my car. . . . and I should get medal for shooting my son’s high school "guidance" counselor.. . . . . . I don’t want everbody to get upset. I did not lose it while I was gone, but I am hypoglycemic (I am but I can’t spell it right. . .) and right now I need a cookie. . . . . . .
As long as we keep you and Crazylady apart tonight – otherwise I’m afraid there’s gonna be real carnage, Jim Janie
Jim made me laugh. I needed a laugh. Thanks Jim. Oh and I’m a hpyoglycemic too. Natalie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you should shoot her. Go ahead, I won’t tell. Maybe we need to rethink this whole process. Gallagher had a good idea with dumb darts, but they never followed up on it. Why isn’t it okay to just pop someone who is a real pain in the ass? I wouldn’t shoot my ex wife/ Other than not liking me too much, she is a really nice lady. My ex inlaws were okay too. I’m not real fond of a couple of accountants and the guy who worked on my car. . . . and I should get medal for shooting my son’s high school "guidance" counselor.. . . . . . I don’t want everbody to get upset. I did not lose it while I was gone, but I am hypoglycemic (I am but I can’t spell it right. . .) and right now I need a cookie. . . . . . . — There are two ways of spreading light — to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. –Edith Wharton To reply via email replace "JLT" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224
The bill just came in yesterday’s mail for the latest batch of legal fees. Over $5000. WAH!!!!!! We’re paying our lawyer off at $300 a month and every penny of this is money well spent because of the settlement we got compared to what she wanted. Our lawyer is charging us a ridiculously low rate and not charging us interest as we pay him off so I have nothing but good to say about him. But boy does this hurt. We have another two years and three months before we’ll be in the clear with him. WAHH!!!!!!! All the things we could have done with that money.!! neccessary. Every last penny of this cost came about because of her absoluitel refusal to do what she should have done without court action, like provide financial disclosure. A copy of the transcript of the settlement came back that she’s been arguing about. It was exactly as WE said it was right from the start. The bill for that bit ot arguing $232.00. What a bitch! Natalie
What are the advantages and disadvantages of changing the par value of the shares in a pooled fund? I am currently working for a non- profit institution and have been instructed to change it. I would like to know of literature,guidelines and or precedent for this type of revaluation.
Increasing the par value can cause the shareholder to legally owe the amount of the increase – I know this can happen in the event of liquidation but I am not sure if it applies to other circumstances. (an accounting student)