Question:

Have you ever thought about going fishing? Catch fish and eat them? Pack a lunch….go sit by some water…come home with supper for yourself? Learn how to clean fish and all… Learn about the tides, the weather, the phases of the moon, things that effect the willingness of fish to bite your bait? Spend time outside. By yourself. Go fishing for a few months. You’re down south you can go fishing right through the winter. I think you need to go fishing for a while. It sounds like you gettig ready to make a bad decision to me. Go fishing for a while, I bet it would help. Damo

Response:

damod…@webtv.net wrote in message <news:16298-3E0B5193-72@storefull-2194.public.lawson.webtv.net>… > Have you ever thought about going fishing? > Catch fish and eat them? > Pack a lunch….go sit by some water…come home with supper for > yourself? > Learn how to clean fish and all…

That might not be a bad idea for a weekend hobby. It will save me a few trips to the grocery store.

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I don’t think I would make a very good security officer. I’m too cowardly and too pigheaded. I am also shy, probably best defined as a "weenie". Look it up in your dictionary…if you don’t know what it means.

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"Bird Brain" <irond…@netzero.net> wrote in message

news:641333f6.0212241230.2e1baea8@posting.google.com… > I don’t think I would make a very good security officer. I’m too > cowardly and too pigheaded. I am also shy, probably best defined as a > "weenie". > Look it up in your dictionary…if you don’t know what it means.

Noun:  Weenie A smooth textured sausage of minced beef or pork usually smoked; often served on a bread roll. Michelle

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irond…@netzero.net (Bird Brain) wrote in message <news:641333f6.0212241230.2e1baea8@posting.google.com>… > I don’t think I would make a very good security officer. I’m too > cowardly and too pigheaded. I am also shy, probably best defined as a > "weenie". > Look it up in your dictionary…if you don’t know what it means.

Actually, I might not make such a bad security officer, I guess. I wouldn’t mind working in something more "manual" in nature, like construction or something along those lines, but I am not very good with tools and have no experience operating heavy equipment. Most of those types of jobs require at least *some* experienec, and when they are entry level, they are usually low-paying. With such low wages, I might as well work washing dishes…something I do have experience in. On the other hand, a good thing about entry level positions is that they will sometimes eventually train you in the other more skilled positions. I guess I could also try to get a job in printing. But I have very little experience in it beyond my education itself. And even my education was often lacking, because I never participated very much in the organizations and other extracurricular activities, where I could have learned more than just what I heard in the lectures or did in the labs. I might as well face it…I’m an idiot in many ways. I should have had enough sense to have either changed my major or dropped out of school altogether, rather than study something my heart wasn’t really in. When I think about it, I feel a little queasy.

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Hilary Duff will be on Conan O’Brien tonite.

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"Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stuart.shilling…@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:Xns961585AFC36BAstuartshillinglawnew@24.66.94.159… | Reality check, most of the popular media is about rating implants. What am | I doing sitting in front of a computer. I’m looking at some Hilary Duff porn. She ain’t 18 yet, so I’d better get it deleted right away!

Response:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J46E225AA — Stuart J. Shillinglaw in Winnipeg http://shillinglaw.atspace.com/ http://schizophrenia.atspace.org/webrings.html

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That’s what she said to me on The George Lopez Show the other night on her "Poetry Slam Night."

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Attorneys Spar Over Jackson’s Financial Records Trial Expected To Resume Monday Mar 11, 2005         5:10 pm US/Central SANTA MARIA, Calif. (AP) Michael Jackson stayed home to recuperate from a back injury Friday while his attorneys were in court battling prosecution efforts to expose financial records they say will show that the multimillionaire superstar is "on the precipice of bankruptcy." The judge in Jackson’s child molestation trial said he would allow only minimal evidence on Jackson’s financial condition, saying "I don’t want to inundate the jury with a lot of figures that don’t tell a story. I don’t think you can turn the jury into accountants." In spite of defense denials, Assistant District Attorney Gordon Auchincloss repeated his assertions that Jackson is in "financial peril" and all of his troubles "will all come crashing down on him in December of 2005." Defense attorney Robert Sanger angrily objected to Auchincloss’ technique of providing "sound bites for the media" in his arguments rather than addressing issues pertinent to the case. He said the prosecutor’s focus on Jackson’s current finances has no relevance to his finances in 2003, the year at issue in the trial. "We have more than enough reason to believe that Mr. Jackson is on the precipice of bankruptcy," said Auchincloss. "He is in debt to the tune of $300 million and has liabilities close to $400 million." He did not explain if he was talking about two different sums or including the debts in the sum of liabilities. Auchincloss continued to rattle off allegations about Jackson’s habits as what he called "a spend-a-holic" who has "an insatiable appetite for money." He said that in the years 1999 to 2001 Jackson was spending $35 million a year while earning only $11 million to $12 million. The judge responded: "I do not wish to extend this trial with a lot of emphasis on his finances," and Auchincloss finally agreed that "all we are looking for is a concise snapshot of the defendant’s financial condition." Melville suggested that is all he will allow. He said he understood the prosecution theory that Jackson had reason to "take drastic actions to protect his image" after the airing of a damaging documentary called "Living With Michael Jackson." But he urged lawyers to confer and reach an agreement by next Thursday on the issue of financial records. Jackson’s spokeswoman Raymone Bain told The Associated Press that Jackson continued to be in pain Friday from a back injury that caused him to be late for court on Thursday, an incident which incurred the judge’s wrath. There was no discussion of the matter in court Friday. Meanwhile, Melville issued a number of other rulings, among them: –He said that comedian Jay Leno, an expected witness in the molestation trial, can continue to crack jokes at Jackson’s expense as long as he doesn’t discuss the facts of his testimony. "I am not attempting to prevent anybody from making a living in the normal way that they make their living," the judge said, adding his own punch line: "I’d like him to tell good jokes … but I guess I can’t control that." –He refused to let the jurors take a field trip to Jackson’s Neverland estate. Jackson lawyer Thomas Mesereau Jr. said it was essential for jurors to see the locations that have been central to testimony. The judge said the jury was seeing enough through videotapes. "I’ve never seen so many videotapes," he said, "and I’m sure I haven’t seen the end of them." –Melville rejected a request by media attorney Theodore Boutrous Jr. to release video exhibits in the case for broadcast by TV outlets. "The public funds the courts and the public has the right to see this evidence," said Boutrous. The judge said those who want to see the videos can come to court. Boutrous filed an appeal later Friday with the 2nd District Court of Appeal. –Melville reiterated that he won’t let the defense "relitigate" a lawsuit brought by the accuser’s mother against J.C. Penny stores which resulted in her receiving a $150,000 settlement after claiming sexual abuse and battery. The defense seeks to show the family has a history of making false claims to get money. –The judge said rulings he has made in the past about testimony involving comedian George Lopez will stand, but added, "There is more involvement with Mr. Lopez and his family than was originally thought and you might want to call him (as a witness) for other purposes." He did not elaborate.

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Question:

What is the preferred method of tracking daily transactions for a small chiropractic office.  I want to track the number of cheques received, the number of people who paid by debit and by credit card and by cash. What program should be used? Thanks

Response:

Excel would suffice for something that simple. — Ken Russell .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the preferred method of tracking daily transactions for a small chiropractic office.  I want to track the number of cheques received, the number of people who paid by debit and by credit card and by cash. What program should be used? Thanks

Response:

What is the preferred method of tracking daily transactions for a small chiropractic office.  I want to track the number of cheques received, the number of people who paid by debit and by credit card and by cash. What program should be used?

The sign of professional IT person is having the ability to recognize when a computer program is needed and when it is not. I consider myself a professional, pencil and paper is all that is needed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks

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I’d sugggest you use Quicken, Quickbooks or  MS Money. They are easy enough to learn and use, and your accountant will thank you for it. Depending on how well you use it you may find that there are other benefits as well. HS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the preferred method of tracking daily transactions for a small chiropractic office.  I want to track the number of cheques received, the number of people who paid by debit and by credit card and by cash. What program should be used? Thanks

Response:

What is the preferred method of tracking daily transactions for a small chiropractic office.  I want to track the number of cheques received, the number of people who paid by debit and by credit card and by cash. What program should be used?

Here’s 2 cents from a lowly accounting Know-Nothin’. Make sure that what you’ll be doing in the coming year is as simple as you may think right now. I used MS Money ’cause I thought my situation was ultra simple starting off in 2004 with even my accountant agreeing. Just so that I would end up switching to QuickBooks towards the end of the year and spend the equivalent of an entire month re-entering everything and learning how to "crawl & walk" all over again. hth

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Question:

Thanks to everyone who responded. I’ll skip the large firm idea.  The idea of a sole practitioner or small firm always seemed better to me, but I thought I’d ask just in case.  I hadn’t thought about the fact that in a large firm, a different person might be doing my taxes every year.  And I have no plan or desire to go to a H&R-Block-type tax preparation company.

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Do big accounting firms typically do individual tax returns? I am an individual who up until now did his own tax returns.  I am a single filer, own my own home, work a full-time and a part-time job, and in late 2003 I bought a second home that I am fixing up and plan to rent out soon. I also plan to buy more homes to rent out as an investment and to create a future retirement income stream. I filed for an automatic extension and I am now looking for an accountant to do my 2003 taxes and future year tax returns each year. My guess is that I will probably look for a sole practitioner or small tax accounting firm.  But there is also a huge accounting firm right near where I work and I am wondering about going there.  Is that overkill for such a small task? My only reason for thinking about using a big firm would be that if the person doing my taxes has any tax-related questions he/she would have others in the same firm to check with.  As an example, because I bought my rental property in 2003, but it will not be available for rent until next month, I think there are issues about how to treat the 2003 expenses.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why pay big bucks for a big firm to do individual tax returns.  Go to a small firm they still have CPAs doing the returns or at least reviewing them.  If your deductions are somewhat wierd and complicated stay away from H&R Block.  I worked at an accounting firm and lots of people switched to us cause H&R screwed there stuff up.  If you don’t feel comfortable doing your tax return go to someone with CPA after there last name but a smaller firm. Sorry to any1 working in a big firm:)  I’ve been there I don’t see the point in the price difference for a bigger name in a not so complicated tax return..  I felt like I was ripping clients off big time for something that took me a half hour and billed the client out for 300 bucks.. Oh yeah i got paid 10 bucks for a half hour work..  Guess I was manipulated myself. Hehe don’t want to offend any1 just stating my opinion. Do big accounting firms typically do individual tax returns? I am an individual who up until now did his own tax returns.  I am a single filer, own my own home, work a full-time and a part-time job, and in late 2003 I bought a second home that I am fixing up and plan to rent out soon. I also plan to buy more homes to rent out as an investment and to create a future retirement income stream. I filed for an automatic extension and I am now looking for an accountant to do my 2003 taxes and future year tax returns each year. My guess is that I will probably look for a sole practitioner or small tax accounting firm.  But there is also a huge accounting firm right near where I work and I am wondering about going there.  Is that overkill for such a small task? My only reason for thinking about using a big firm would be that if the person doing my taxes has any tax-related questions he/she would have others in the same firm to check with.  As an example, because I bought my rental property in 2003, but it will not be available for rent until next month, I think there are issues about how to treat the 2003 expenses.

Bryan, I agree 100%.  That’s why I left CPA firms and started my own practice.  I didn’t like seeing someone with a Form 1040EZ being charged $200 and it took maybe 2 minutes to input the information into the tax program. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

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In your present circumstances, what are legitimate "issues" to you are well within the experience and knowledge of any competent professional.  Most large firms have strict procedures for quality control and supervision that will add significantly to your fees and are not necessary for YOUR work, so I would recommend a small firm or sole practitioner. Also – if you are satisfied with the work done, there is a reasonable possibility in a small firm that your return next year might be completed by the same person who will then have some familiarity with your situation; that’s highly unlikely in a large firm.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do big accounting firms typically do individual tax returns? I am an individual who up until now did his own tax returns.  I am a single filer, own my own home, work a full-time and a part-time job, and in late 2003 I bought a second home that I am fixing up and plan to rent out soon. I also plan to buy more homes to rent out as an investment and to create a future retirement income stream. I filed for an automatic extension and I am now looking for an accountant to do my 2003 taxes and future year tax returns each year. My guess is that I will probably look for a sole practitioner or small tax accounting firm.  But there is also a huge accounting firm right near where I work and I am wondering about going there.  Is that overkill for such a small task? My only reason for thinking about using a big firm would be that if the person doing my taxes has any tax-related questions he/she would have others in the same firm to check with.  As an example, because I bought my rental property in 2003, but it will not be available for rent until next month, I think there are issues about how to treat the 2003 expenses.

Response:

Why pay big bucks for a big firm to do individual tax returns.  Go to a small firm they still have CPAs doing the returns or at least reviewing them.  If your deductions are somewhat wierd and complicated stay away from H&R Block.  I worked at an accounting firm and lots of people switched to us cause H&R screwed there stuff up.  If you don’t feel comfortable doing your tax return go to someone with CPA after there last name but a smaller firm. Sorry to any1 working in a big firm:)  I’ve been there I don’t see the point in the price difference for a bigger name in a not so complicated tax return..  I felt like I was ripping clients off big time for something that took me a half hour and billed the client out for 300 bucks.. Oh yeah i got paid 10 bucks for a half hour work..  Guess I was manipulated myself.  Hehe don’t want to offend any1 just stating my opinion.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do big accounting firms typically do individual tax returns? I am an individual who up until now did his own tax returns.  I am a single filer, own my own home, work a full-time and a part-time job, and in late 2003 I bought a second home that I am fixing up and plan to rent out soon. I also plan to buy more homes to rent out as an investment and to create a future retirement income stream. I filed for an automatic extension and I am now looking for an accountant to do my 2003 taxes and future year tax returns each year. My guess is that I will probably look for a sole practitioner or small tax accounting firm.  But there is also a huge accounting firm right near where I work and I am wondering about going there.  Is that overkill for such a small task? My only reason for thinking about using a big firm would be that if the person doing my taxes has any tax-related questions he/she would have others in the same firm to check with.  As an example, because I bought my rental property in 2003, but it will not be available for rent until next month, I think there are issues about how to treat the 2003 expenses.

Response:

Question:

In answer to my own question:-  Yes, Virginia, converting datafiles from Mac to PC is simple and easy.  The Macintosh operating system includes software (called PC Exchange) that can DOS-format a disk, and then will facilitate the download of the QB datafile onto the disk so that it can be opened by a PC version of Quickbooks. It’s not necessary to buy special software on the PC side to read a QB datafile from a Mac-formatted disk, though I quote the two posts (below) that suggest this route.  If it works, who can complain, right?  And if the PC-based accountant who wants to see the data is more computer-proficient than the client who uses QB on a Mac, it may be the better route. The glitch I experienced seems to be that the "Memorized Reports" function of the Mac version doesn’t translate properly to the PC version.  Mike Bartlett suggested this possibility (Thanks, Mike!), and it fit with the problem that we had.  The whole conversion process was working fine, but then as the file was actually being opened, the system crashed. The problem definitely has something to do with the reports function, in combination with reports that may be open when the file is backed up. I’m not sure if it was the memorized reports themselves.  Maybe it was as simple as the fact that a window with one of the reports was open (!) when I backed up the datafile.  What I did to solve the problem was a full set of steps to clear the memorized reports entirely from the datafile.  Maybe some steps were unnecessary, but I wanted to be sure. These are the steps, all on the Mac, to create a clean datafile to be opened with a PC version of QuickBooks: 1) On the Mac, with the company file open, close all windows. 2) Go to the list of Memorized Reports, and using Edit, delete each of them.  (Actually, you can do this with a duplicate copy of the company file, so you keep the memorized reports in the original.) 3) Use the Back Up utility to produce a back-up datafile, on the hard drive. 4) Close the program.  Put a DOS-formatted disk in the floppy drive (or reformat a Mac-formatted disk to DOS, using the option under Erase Disk). 5) Reopen QuickBooks, without opening a company file, and use the Restore function to open the back-up datafile.  Keep the datafile open, but make sure all windows (especially for any reports) are closed. 6) Now use the Back Up utility again, this time putting the datafile on the DOS-formatted disk. … Done. 7) On the PC side, one of the Intuit help pages recommends copying the datafile from the floppy to the hard drive and opening it from there.  I used an email attachment, so I don’t know if that would make a difference. That may seem like a lot of steps.  Steps 1 to 5 are meant to clear up the problem that memorized reports seem to generate when the datafile is opened on the PC side.  Steps 3 and 5 may be totally unnecessary; I did them in order to clear away any traces of the memorized reports, just to be sure.  Bottom line is, it worked. I could add more about the different versions of QuickBooks, the complications that come with Apple’s move away from floppy disks, and the joys of sending email attachments of datafiles, but I’ve probably made it seem too complicated already.  Still, for me, it’s less complicated and much more preferable to buying a PC so I can do the books for my group. Thanks, everyone, for your help.  I’m hoping this post may help others who may face the same problem we had. Intuit is still selling the Mac version of Quickbooks, in a Y2K-compliant variant of Version 4, which works fine for me, and it’s nice to know that at least the core datafile really can be ported over to the PC side. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – According to the help pages at the Quickbooks and Intuit sites, converting datafiles from Mac to PC should be easy.  Simply put, "Back up" from the Mac version to a PC-formatted disk, open Quickbooks on the PC and "Restore" from the backed up datafile. (Conversions from PC to Mac generally involve running it through older versions of Quickbooks on the PC side. That’s a different story.) References: http://www.quickbooks.com/support/faqs/mac/2192.html http://www.intuit.com/quickbooks/technical_support/faqs/74005.htm I’m treasurer of a small non-profit, and we’re getting help from a volunteer accountant.  At his suggestion, I put a whole load of transactions into Quickbooks (version 4.0 M12A, the latest for Mac), got most of the loose ends tied up, backed up the datafile onto a PC-formatted disk, and went to see him this morning. You’re right, it is easy. I checked with a simple QB Mac4.12A file, and it works flawlessly. I suggest you perform a File-utilities-verify data on the Mac file to see if there is a problem before you back it up. Then try the conversion again. I have done it successfully, although reluctantly, with several clients. When the possibility first arose, I searched ZDNet for translation utilities. Then I went to the website of a company selling a translator program that had gotten good reviews (TransMac) and purchased and downloaded the software:

One of our clients uses QuickBooks 4.0 for the Mac, and I use MacReader to allow my PC to read Macintosh disks.  This allowed me to "open" the data files and convert them in the same manner as I would an earlier version of QuickBooks into QuickBooks Pro 2000. This way, I don’t have to do the conversion until I get the disk to my PC. Works great.

– Kirk Wattles

Response:

According to the help pages at the Quickbooks and Intuit sites, converting datafiles from Mac to PC should be

easy.  Simply put, "Back up" from the Mac version to a PC-formatted

disk, open Quickbooks on the PC and "Restore" from the backed up datafile. (Conversions from PC to Mac generally involve

running it through older versions of Quickbooks on the PC side. That’s a different story.)

I have done it successfully, although reluctantly, with several clients. When the possibility first arose, I searched ZDNet for translation utilities. Then I went to the website of a company selling a translator program that had gotten good reviews (TransMac) and purchased and downloaded the software: Acute Systems Phone/FAX: 847-658-4127 WWW: http://www.asy.com CompuServe email: 70461,2542 Then I had the clients make the same backups that they normally made using MAC formatted diskettes. Then I brought the MAC diskettes to my office and used TransMac to copy them onto my PC hard drive. Now that I had the individual backup files all I had to do was to copy them to PC formatted floppies and restore them using QuickBooks 4.0 just like they were a normal backup. The only difference being that the PC version recognized a MAC data file and performed some sort of conversion on it. The reason I restored using PC QBW4.0 was that initially we wanted to send the data file back to the MAC computer. However, as the PC versions advanced and the MAC version held static we gave up on that notion. I did find empirically that the later versions of QBW – such as 99 and 2000 – don’t seem to have the conversion routine that is needed for MAC files. I had to restore using an older copy first – 4.0, 5.0 or 6.0 – and then upgrade to the current version I liked the best. Any more, though, I discourage clients with MAC systems from using QuickBooks. Especially since Intuit quit supporting the payroll module a year or two ago. Before you buy.

Response:

I cant be sure, but I seem to remember that sometimes this can happen based on something to do with the way the reports are set up on the MAC. Normally, the conversion is a pretty straightforward progress. Go back to QuickBooks web site and check for conversion and MAC and reports and see if you get anything.  Sorry I can’t be more help.

That’s a start, anyway.  I was wondering something along the same lines, in trying to decipher the "details" of the so-called "illegal operation." When we tried to open it, the computer put it through a conversion process (which he said was normal when restoring from a back-up) but almost at the end the computer conked out, saying there was an "illegal operation," and it had to be shut down and rebooted. "Illegal operation — QBWS2 caused an invalid pg (page?) fault in module (?) QBWRPT32.DLL at 015F:010DC2DE."

                     ^^^ And it gave specifics on Registers, Bytes at CS:E1P, and Stack dump.

QBW seems to refer to the program itself, perhaps QuickBooks for Windows.   RPT in "QBWRPT32.DLL" could mean a report function. What I’ll try, when I can get access again to a PC that has Quickbooks, is to erase out the two memorized reports I had created in the Mac version, and make sure that none of the windows (especially for reports) are open when I back up the datafile.  I think I had one of those windows open when I backed up the last time.  One of the last things the program does when opening a datafile is it opens the windows that were open when it was last closed down, and that may be the function that made the problem.  Or else just trying to figure where to stow the memorized reports ported over from the Mac version. I can’t find anything in the help pages about this, and I’m unhappy that I would have to pay for personal support on this question. Thanks for your help here, and I’ve received some email saying that yes, it *can* be done. —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -According to the help pages at the Quickbooks and Intuit sites, converting datafiles from Mac to PC should be easy.  Simply put, "Back up" from the Mac version to a PC-formatted disk, open Quickbooks on the PC and "Restore" from the backed up datafile. (Conversions from PC to Mac generally involve running it through older versions of Quickbooks on the PC side. That’s a different story.) References:  http://www.quickbooks.com/support/faqs/mac/2192.html  http://www.intuit.com/quickbooks/technical_support/faqs/74005.htm I’m treasurer of a small non-profit, and we’re getting help from a volunteer accountant.  At his suggestion, I put a whole load of transactions into Quickbooks (version 4.0 M12A, the latest for Mac), got most of the loose ends tied up, backed up the datafile onto a PC-formatted disk, and went to see him this morning.

You’re right, it is easy. I checked with a simple QB Mac4.12A file, and it works flawlessly. I suggest you perform a File-utilities-verify data on the Mac file  to see if there is a problem before you back it up. Then try the conversion again. Tom –Solving your tax and business problems with Professional Service…Personal Attention Web: http://members.aol.com/thealycpa/Tom_Healy_CPA.html

Response:

I cant be sure, but I seem to remember that sometimes this can happen based on something to do with the way the reports are set up on the MAC. Normally, the conversion is a pretty straightforward progress.  Go back to QuickBooks web site and check for conversion and MAC and reports and see if you get anything.  Sorry I can’t be more help.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi.  I’m having a problem maybe someone here can help me with. According to the help pages at the Quickbooks and Intuit sites, converting datafiles from Mac to PC should be easy.  Simply put, "Back up" from the Mac version to a PC-formatted disk, open Quickbooks on the PC and "Restore" from the backed up datafile. (Conversions from PC to Mac generally involve running it through older versions of Quickbooks on the PC side. That’s a different story.) References:   http://www.quickbooks.com/support/faqs/mac/2192.html   http://www.intuit.com/quickbooks/technical_support/faqs/74005.htm I’m treasurer of a small non-profit, and we’re getting help from a volunteer accountant.  At his suggestion, I put a whole load of transactions into Quickbooks (version 4.0 M12A, the latest for Mac), got most of the loose ends tied up, backed up the datafile onto a PC-formatted disk, and went to see him this morning. When we tried to open it, the computer put it through a conversion process (which he said was normal when restoring from a back-up) but almost at the end the computer conked out, saying there was an "illegal operation," and it had to be shut down and rebooted. We did this three times, not doing much different each time, and hit the same wall each time.  He now thinks that there isn’t any way to convert from Mac to PC versions of Quickbooks, or if there is, that it’ll be too complicated for him to do. I wonder if anyone can help? First, has anyone run into that particular obstacle?  (I’ll describe it in detail below.) Second, does anyone in this group run these conversions routinely?  Or is it just totally bogus what Intuit/Quickbooks say about being able to do it? Third, for anyone who knows something about this sort of problem, can you tell me which of the following factors is most likely the culprit? Possible factors a.) I didn’t see the help page at intuit.com (2nd one listed above) until later.  That page says to *copy* the backed up datafile from the PC-formatted disk to the hard drive, and then restore from the copy on the hard drive.  (We didn’t try that, and when I called the accountant just now to suggest it, he was dubious that it would make a difference. Doesn’t want even to try.) b.) He was trying to restore from within Quickbooks Pro 2000 (PC version).  He had some older versions of Quickbooks (v.5, v.’99), but didn’t think it was worth trying them if the latest version wasn’t doing it. c.) Is this a problem with the Windows OS, that it detects an "illegal operation" when there isn’t any?  Or maybe with how his computer is set up — memory allocation or whatever? Details of what happened: I’m on a PowerPC Mac, with system 8.1, using Quickbooks v.4 M12A.  The PC Exchange control panel is v. 2.2 — which fits with the "2.0.3 or later" which the help page says is needed. The accountant is on a Dell PC, with Windows 95, using Quickbooks Pro 2000. We were in the Quickbooks program, used restore and went to the floppy, picked the datafile with the same name as the original, with the .qbw extension.  We had to view "all files" in order to see it.  When we clicked on the button to "Open," we got the progress bar, showing the % restored, which filled up while the message read "Restoring data." Then the message was, "Your Mac file needs to be converted."  The accountant told it to go ahead, and we went through a few screens too quickly for me to get down what they were, but he thought they were routine.  The next think I know, we get a message that says "Illegal operation," adding that the computer has to be shut down and rebooted, which the accountant did.  (I’m thinking he was so quick to do it, that maybe he has to do it pretty often anyway…  Factor ‘c’ above.) The third time through, when I was trying to get down what was going on, I insisted before shutting down the computer again, that he click on the button for "Details" of the so-called illegal operation.  I was scribbling madly (he was just about ready to end our session) so I’m not sure I got it quite right, but this is what I have: "Illegal operation — QBWS2 caused an invalid pg (page?) fault in module (?) QBWRPT32.DLL at 015F:010DC2DE." And it gave specifics on Registers, Bytes at CS:E1P, and Stack dump. Reading between the lines above, maybe you can tell that he was ready to throw up his hands, but having invested all the work of entering the data, and having seen that the Quickbooks program works perfectly well on my computer and is quite adequate for our organization’s needs, I’m not ready to give up. All ideas are welcome.  I hope no-one thinks they have to understand all of the above in order to respond, but I’m hoping that maybe this specific problem is one that others have run into before, and if not, that I can at least get some ideas to help me think about it. P.S. Please don’t tell me it can’t be done.  I’m going to find out how to do it, and eventually I’ll come back here and report what I learned, but rather than try and reinvent the wheel by myself, I’m asking for help.  (This means you, Mike Block.  I’ve read what you’ve posted on this topic already, using DejaNews.  If you can’t help, then thank you very much but no thanks.) P.P.S.  I hope accountants in this group don’t think I carry a grudge about this.  Hopefully you’ll understand, as I do, that it’s kind of funny how this is going.  The guy wants to help, but here I am, I want to do the organization’s books on a Mac.  I don’t want to cause him any grief over this, I just want to be able to come back with a datafile he can open so he can go ahead and do his good deed for the day.  Meanwhile I’m working for days-weeks on this project, totally unpaid, for a very worthwhile group in which I’m probably the only one who even dares to dream of bringing our bookkeeping into the computer age…  Funny, huh?  :-) —

Response:

Hi.  I’m having a problem maybe someone here can help me with. According to the help pages at the Quickbooks and Intuit sites, converting datafiles from Mac to PC should be easy.  Simply put, "Back up" from the Mac version to a PC-formatted disk, open Quickbooks on the PC and "Restore" from the backed up datafile. (Conversions from PC to Mac generally involve running it through older versions of Quickbooks on the PC side. That’s a different story.) References:   http://www.quickbooks.com/support/faqs/mac/2192.html   http://www.intuit.com/quickbooks/technical_support/faqs/74005.htm I’m treasurer of a small non-profit, and we’re getting help from a volunteer accountant.  At his suggestion, I put a whole load of transactions into Quickbooks (version 4.0 M12A, the latest for Mac), got most of the loose ends tied up, backed up the datafile onto a PC-formatted disk, and went to see him this morning. When we tried to open it, the computer put it through a conversion process (which he said was normal when restoring from a back-up) but almost at the end the computer conked out, saying there was an "illegal operation," and it had to be shut down and rebooted. We did this three times, not doing much different each time, and hit the same wall each time.  He now thinks that there isn’t any way to convert from Mac to PC versions of Quickbooks, or if there is, that it’ll be too complicated for him to do. I wonder if anyone can help? First, has anyone run into that particular obstacle?  (I’ll describe it in detail below.) Second, does anyone in this group run these conversions routinely?  Or is it just totally bogus what Intuit/Quickbooks say about being able to do it? Third, for anyone who knows something about this sort of problem, can you tell me which of the following factors is most likely the culprit? Possible factors a.) I didn’t see the help page at intuit.com (2nd one listed above) until later.  That page says to *copy* the backed up datafile from the PC-formatted disk to the hard drive, and then restore from the copy on the hard drive.  (We didn’t try that, and when I called the accountant just now to suggest it, he was dubious that it would make a difference. Doesn’t want even to try.) b.) He was trying to restore from within Quickbooks Pro 2000 (PC version).  He had some older versions of Quickbooks (v.5, v.’99), but didn’t think it was worth trying them if the latest version wasn’t doing it. c.) Is this a problem with the Windows OS, that it detects an "illegal operation" when there isn’t any?  Or maybe with how his computer is set up — memory allocation or whatever? Details of what happened: I’m on a PowerPC Mac, with system 8.1, using Quickbooks v.4 M12A.  The PC Exchange control panel is v. 2.2 — which fits with the "2.0.3 or later" which the help page says is needed. The accountant is on a Dell PC, with Windows 95, using Quickbooks Pro 2000. We were in the Quickbooks program, used restore and went to the floppy, picked the datafile with the same name as the original, with the .qbw extension.  We had to view "all files" in order to see it.  When we clicked on the button to "Open," we got the progress bar, showing the % restored, which filled up while the message read "Restoring data." Then the message was, "Your Mac file needs to be converted."  The accountant told it to go ahead, and we went through a few screens too quickly for me to get down what they were, but he thought they were routine.  The next think I know, we get a message that says "Illegal operation," adding that the computer has to be shut down and rebooted, which the accountant did.  (I’m thinking he was so quick to do it, that maybe he has to do it pretty often anyway…  Factor ‘c’ above.) The third time through, when I was trying to get down what was going on, I insisted before shutting down the computer again, that he click on the button for "Details" of the so-called illegal operation.  I was scribbling madly (he was just about ready to end our session) so I’m not sure I got it quite right, but this is what I have: "Illegal operation — QBWS2 caused an invalid pg (page?) fault in module (?) QBWRPT32.DLL at 015F:010DC2DE." And it gave specifics on Registers, Bytes at CS:E1P, and Stack dump. Reading between the lines above, maybe you can tell that he was ready to throw up his hands, but having invested all the work of entering the data, and having seen that the Quickbooks program works perfectly well on my computer and is quite adequate for our organization’s needs, I’m not ready to give up. All ideas are welcome.  I hope no-one thinks they have to understand all of the above in order to respond, but I’m hoping that maybe this specific problem is one that others have run into before, and if not, that I can at least get some ideas to help me think about it. P.S. Please don’t tell me it can’t be done.  I’m going to find out how to do it, and eventually I’ll come back here and report what I learned, but rather than try and reinvent the wheel by myself, I’m asking for help.  (This means you, Mike Block.  I’ve read what you’ve posted on this topic already, using DejaNews.  If you can’t help, then thank you very much but no thanks.) P.P.S.  I hope accountants in this group don’t think I carry a grudge about this.  Hopefully you’ll understand, as I do, that it’s kind of funny how this is going.  The guy wants to help, but here I am, I want to do the organization’s books on a Mac.  I don’t want to cause him any grief over this, I just want to be able to come back with a datafile he can open so he can go ahead and do his good deed for the day.  Meanwhile I’m working for days-weeks on this project, totally unpaid, for a very worthwhile group in which I’m probably the only one who even dares to dream of bringing our bookkeeping into the computer age…  Funny, huh?  :-) —

Response:

Question:

Thanks taxlady! Unfortunately, alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks doesn’t seem to be carried on my newserver.  There is a alt.comp.software.financial.quicken though.  Are you sure alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks exists?  If you’re sure, I’ll try to locate it on another news server. Dent

Dent, Yup, I’m sure. I post on it regularly. I’m pretty sure you can find it on Deja. I can’t help with your tax report question, because I use the Canadian version of QB. Tax reporting seems to be one of the biggest differences from the U.S. version. Ciao, Linda B Get all the Canadian & Quebec tax deductions you deserve QuickBooks

Question:

thanks  I was wondering since Accounting was my major at college

Cool!  <G Wanna do our sales tax returns?????  …Seems like an accountant could really make a fortune offering an easy way for auction-folk to do all this stuff. The idea of having to do so many really makes me shudder. Given the political clout of big businesses… How did this system ever come to exist in the first place???? – Dan. | South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

Response:

Wanna do our sales tax returns?????  …Seems like an accountant could really make a fortune offering an easy way for auction-folk to do all this stuff.

Nah  I had enough with frustration with the rules and regulations… The idea of having to do so many really makes me shudder.

agreed Given the political clout of big businesses… How did this system ever come to exist in the first place???? – Dan.

At the first dawn of man……

Response:

NO- WRONG You do not have to collect sales taxes for every out of state transaction-only those states in which you have a "physical presence"-and for most Ebayer sellers, thats the one in which they reside. If you own shops in other states, yes, MAYBE you do have to pay sales tax. (but that depends on your corporate setup-a crafty lawyer can set up a separate corporation for internet sales with one location). Individuals will almost ALWAYS have one location.   Taxes in those instances should be paid by the buyer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are a business to do business over ebay, how would it affect the tax form? Depends on how you form your company, but income is still income.  Sole Props just use Schedule C.  If you Inc then you’ll have to file a seperate return. And, technically, you’d have to collect sales tax for every tax zone in your home state you deal with.  And file said taxes monthly or quarterly, depending on the jurisdiction’s requirements. …I was just reading a thing recently that said that the average Fortune 500 company files 1,000 sales tax returns *per month*. <shudder – Dan. | South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

Response:

thanks  I was wondering since Accounting was my major at college – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are a business to do business over ebay, how would it affect the tax form? Depends on how you form your company, but income is still income.  Sole Props just use Schedule C.  If you Inc then you’ll have to file a seperate return. And, technically, you’d have to collect sales tax for every tax zone in your home state you deal with.  And file said taxes monthly or quarterly, depending on the jurisdiction’s requirements. …I was just reading a thing recently that said that the average Fortune 500 company files 1,000 sales tax returns *per month*. <shudder – Dan. | South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

Response:

NO- WRONG You do not have to collect sales taxes for every out of state transaction-only those states in which you have a "physical presence"-and for most Ebayer sellers, thats the one in which they reside.

zone in your home state"   See, Home state, context: eBay Sellers (this is alt.marketing.online.ebay after all).  I never said you’d have to collect taxes for Every state. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you own shops in other states, yes, MAYBE you do have to pay sales tax. (but that depends on your corporate setup-a crafty lawyer can set up a separate corporation for internet sales with one location). Individuals will almost ALWAYS have one location.   Taxes in those instances should be paid by the buyer. If you are a business to do business over ebay, how would it affect the tax form? Depends on how you form your company, but income is still income.  Sole Props just use Schedule C.  If you Inc then you’ll have to file a seperate return. And, technically, you’d have to collect sales tax for every tax zone in your home state you deal with.  And file said taxes monthly or quarterly, depending on the jurisdiction’s requirements. …I was just reading a thing recently that said that the average Fortune 500 company files 1,000 sales tax returns *per month*. <shudder – Dan. | South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

| South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

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If you are a business to do business over ebay, how would it affect the tax form?

Response:

If you are a business to do business over ebay, how would it affect the tax form?

Depends on how you form your company, but income is still income.  Sole Props just use Schedule C.  If you Inc then you’ll have to file a seperate return. And, technically, you’d have to collect sales tax for every tax zone in your home state you deal with.  And file said taxes monthly or quarterly, depending on the jurisdiction’s requirements. …I was just reading a thing recently that said that the average Fortune 500 company files 1,000 sales tax returns *per month*. <shudder – Dan. | South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

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Question:

I just received my CMA certification and I found the program truly worthwhile. The four subject areas covered are: 1.  Economics, Finance, and Management 2.  Financial Accounting and Reporting 3.  Management Reporting, Analysis, and Behavioral Issues 4.  Decision Analysis and Information Systems The minimum passing grade for each part is 70%. The experience requirement is 2 years in the field. The exam is now on-demand, computer-based, and you get your results immediately. The exam is given at Sylvan centers. Good Luck – hope this info was helpful

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I am in the process of studying for the CMA.  I am curious if anyone knows how the results are calculated?  What is the percent correct that you need to pass with?

Response:

Hi Rich! I’ve been thinking about getting my CMA certification. Since you are studying for the CMA test I thought you might give me some insite on the subjects covered and the requirements for CMA certification. Thanks, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of studying for the CMA.  I am curious if anyone knows how the results are calculated?  What is the percent correct that you need to pass with?

Response:

I am studying for the exams right now.  I am using the Gleim material to prepare.  I have found it very helpful and easy to use and the cost is certainly better than MicroMash.  Your local IMA chapter may also have a review course that you can enroll in.  Check with them to see if they have anything in your area. Good Luck   Regards,   Donald A Haney, MBA   Emergency Care Specialists, PC   "Learning occurs in the mind, independent of time and place." – Plato

  I’m thinking about taking the CMA exam.  Does anybody know the best way to   study for the exam.  I might buy the micromash program, but it is pretty   expensive.  Any suggestions?       I studied for the CMA while I also studied for the CPA exam.  The only   suppliment I used form the CMA was all of my college text books (Cost,   of course, but also finance, management, and MIS).  I did buy and use   the Gleim CMA set of prep books.  I bought each new set while I was   testing (3 times to pass all parts).  That system worked for me, but   now I understand the testing is all PC based.  Good luck in your   endevors.   I understand the the Micromash program is guaranteed to get you   through the exam.  If so, the expense may be worth the months of   lonely study and stress.   Russell Tuncap, CMA, CPA

Response:

I’m thinking about taking the CMA exam.  Does anybody know the best way to study for the exam.  I might buy the micromash program, but it is pretty expensive.  Any suggestions?

I studied for the CMA while I also studied for the CPA exam.  The only suppliment I used form the CMA was all of my college text books (Cost, of course, but also finance, management, and MIS).  I did buy and use the Gleim CMA set of prep books.  I bought each new set while I was testing (3 times to pass all parts).  That system worked for me, but now I understand the testing is all PC based.  Good luck in your endevors. I understand the the Micromash program is guaranteed to get you through the exam.  If so, the expense may be worth the months of lonely study and stress. Russell Tuncap, CMA, CPA

Response:

I’m thinking about taking the CMA exam.  Does anybody know the best way to study for the exam.  I might buy the micromash program, but it is pretty expensive.  Any suggestions?

Response:

Question:

Alan, Point taken, but as the guardians of the profession it seems foolish to generate ill will by being unnecessarily disparaging of just the sort of people whom many of you (us?) represent and work for. That was my point. Matt Swainson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, but once you go computerized those packages are about as easy as it gets. Also why would "CPA" have anything do do with how "harsh" a post is.  Last time I checked CPA stood for certified public accountant not that you had passed the Ms. Manners course on etiquette. —— I find your post a little harsh.  Especially, from someone with "CPA" in their address?  Surely you would have to agree that to someone with NO EXPERIENCE OR TRAINING, even Quickbooks would be difficult? Gina Dent SmartBooks St. Louis, MO |Simpler than Quickbooks?  You might try stuffing your money in a |mattress. | |(If you have any money, if you have a mattress.) | | |Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business |accounting?? | |I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY |package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply |Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my |use. | |Regards, | |Ray | | | | |

Response:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Thomas Edison had a double entry bookkeeping system: two nails on the wall – one labeled "I owe" and the other labeled "owes me". Before he took accounting in high school, my son used coffee cans. In my opinion, none of the current accounting software is truly easy.  As the consuming public demands more features and the vendors comply, the programs get more complex. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simpler than Quickbooks?  You might try stuffing your money in a mattress. Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business accounting?? I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my use. Regards, Ray

Response:

I’ll try to clarify it for you.  In my opinion, a CPA should have seen enough fubar’d books to know that when a person with no background or training in accounting tries to do their own books, even with a program WE consider to be as simple as using the old adding machine, the results are generally not good.  In light of the original post, the reply should have been a simple "You’re not really going to find anything easier than Quickbooks."  Instead, this person degraded the original poster as unintelligent and indigent.  I have to agree with Matt that, considering many people feel that the CPA is right up there with the lawyers, we should try to present a presence other than this "someone-peed-in-my-Wheaties-this-morning" attitude. — Gina M. Dent BookSmart St. Louis, MO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, but once you go computerized those packages are about as easy as it gets. Also why would "CPA" have anything do do with how "harsh" a post is.  Last time I checked CPA stood for certified public accountant not that you had passed the Ms. Manners course on etiquette. —— I find your post a little harsh.  Especially, from someone with "CPA" in their address?  Surely you would have to agree that to someone with NO EXPERIENCE OR TRAINING, even Quickbooks would be difficult? Gina Dent SmartBooks St. Louis, MO |Simpler than Quickbooks?  You might try stuffing your money in a |mattress. | |(If you have any money, if you have a mattress.) | | |Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business |accounting?? | |I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY |package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply |Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my |use. | |Regards, | |Ray | | | | |

Response:

Check out this website at http://www.timedepot.com Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business accounting?? I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my use. Regards, Ray

Response:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Thomas Edison had a double entry bookkeeping system: two nails on the wall – one labeled "I owe" and the other labeled "owes me".

I heard Edison used 2 letter spikes. And remember, nobody had to upgrade their abacus due to the impending Year 1200 problem. (And it was digital.)  - Carl

Response:

I second Gina’s objection, I don’t think it helps the profession’s public image to make comments like this even allowing for the fact that it was probably made in jest. (we are, after all, not supposed to have senses of humour!) While Quickbooks may indeed be simple, packages like SAGEs Instant Accounting are equally easy, but only if you know where to start. An elementary accounting course may well pay dividends in this case. I am sufficiently close to the bottom of the profession as yet to remember what knowing nothing feels like which may be difficult from the giddy heights of CPAdom, but one ought to try don’t you think? regards Matt Swainson

I find your post a little harsh.  Especially, from someone with "CPA" in their address?  Surely you would have to agree that to someone with NO EXPERIENCE OR TRAINING, even Quickbooks would be difficult? Gina Dent SmartBooks St. Louis, MO

|Simpler than Quickbooks?  You might try stuffing your money in a |mattress. | |(If you have any money, if you have a mattress.) |

Response:

I couldn’t agree more!  Of course, I’m a bookkeeper who does exactly that! :O) What area are you in, Ray? — Gina M. Dent BookSmart St. Louis, Missouri | Perhaps you should consider having a bookkeeper or accountant come in once a | month and totally releive you of the task of keeping your own bookkeeping | records while you get on with what you know how to do. | Try it, you’ll like it! | | | Peter | | |

Response:

Simpler than Quickbooks?  You might try stuffing your money in a mattress.   (If you have any money, if you have a mattress.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business accounting?? I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my use. Regards, Ray

Response:

I find your post a little harsh.  Especially, from someone with "CPA" in their address?  Surely you would have to agree that to someone with NO EXPERIENCE OR TRAINING, even Quickbooks would be difficult? Gina Dent SmartBooks St. Louis, MO

|Simpler than Quickbooks?  You might try stuffing your money in a |mattress.   | |(If you have any money, if you have a mattress.) | | |Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business |accounting?? | |I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY |package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply |Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my |use. | |Regards, | |Ray | | | | |

Response:

Yes, but once you go computerized those packages are about as easy as it gets. Also why would "CPA" have anything do do with how "harsh" a post is.  Last time I checked CPA stood for certified public accountant not that you had passed the Ms. Manners course on etiquette. ——

I find your post a little harsh.  Especially, from someone with "CPA" in their address?  Surely you would have to agree that to someone with NO EXPERIENCE OR TRAINING, even Quickbooks would be difficult? Gina Dent SmartBooks St. Louis, MO

|Simpler than Quickbooks?  You might try stuffing your money in a |mattress. | |(If you have any money, if you have a mattress.) | | |Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business |accounting?? | |I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY |package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply |Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my |use. | |Regards, | |Ray | | | | |

Response:

Perhaps you should consider having a bookkeeper or accountant come in once a month and totally releive you of the task of keeping your own bookkeeping records while you get on with what you know how to do. Try it, you’ll like it! Peter

Response:

Our software can be taylored to your business if you like.  Custom changes are available. See our website for details. http://www.pbyc.com 32 bit software. Single user or Network Ready! No user license fee. Y2K compliant! General Ledger, Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, Order Entry, Inventory/Purchasing Multiple entities and cost centers. Setup as many companies as you like (datasets). Demo installs with two datasets, one with demo info to play with and another for your company (real data). Batch Processing. Thanks!

Response:

Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business accounting?? I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my use. Regards, Ray

Response:

Hi Ray, EASY in the accounting world is a relative term.  Easier than making toast – No, Easier than getting to the moon – Definitely. My suggestion would be to look up an accounting advisor to assist you with either the Simply Accounting or QuickBooks software to get over the learning curve.  You can locate an advisor at either of the program’s websites QuickBooks Canada: http://www.intuit.com/canada/quickbooks/advisors/index.html Simply Accounting: http://www.accpac.com/products/finance/simply/finding_consultant.asp There may be easier programs available but, they have many limitations which would hinder your business operations (eg. they don’t track Accounts Receivable or they don’t print a General Ledger Report).  Invest a couple of hundred dollars in some one-to-one training and you will reduce your frustration level immensely. If I can be of further help send me an email at spenceco-at-cnnet.com. Regards, David Spence SPENCE & COMPANY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anybody recommend a good and EASY software package for small business accounting?? I operate a small computer retail business and I can’t seem to find an EASY package.  I know the basics of accounting and that’s it.  I’ve tried Simply Accounting V5 and Quick Books V4, but even those seem complicated for my use. Regards, Ray

Response:

Question:

Dear Jobless Folks, I say we start posting stuff here on how we can better ourselves say through ideas on how to start our own home business or something. Not the stuff where you pay a guy to tell you well first you have to advertise. But real stuff like who to contact for tax purposes and how to get a liscence and what type accounting records you need etc. I’m looking forward to learning this my self. We could start with a hypothetical company such as company "Rainbow" say a cleaning service or a tutor service for students. Most of us are graduates. How would one start? Make business cards? Get a liscence? Learn as much as you can on say the cleaning profession? Jeff

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First, PICK A FIELD WHERE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, YOU ENJOY DOING IT, AND HAVE SOME ACTUAL EXPERIENCE!! Second. though a business "LICENSE" is a requirement in some instances, though not in all, it comes far down the line in your enterprise. Third, start out by making an outline of just what you want to attempt (your "BUSINESS PLAN"); just tell yourself what it is you want to do, then take the time to put down how you believe you "can" do it at this time–with the assets you have to work with. Fourth, go out and get reference material about the field (no matter how well you think you know it), read two or three books of up-to-date material, then REDO YOUR BUSINESS PLAN to take into consideration what you’ve just read. Fifth, get a copy of Guerilla Marketing and read it from cover to cover; then follow the author’s advice and draw up a "Marketing Plan" for your enterprise.   THEN JUST DO IT!! There are many good books in the library, on the mechanics of starting a new business, but you’ve got to have both the BUSINESS PLAN AND MARKETING PLAN in mind before you start getting serious about it!!!!!!!! I came off a 4-year bout with cancer and related illnesses (which kept me in a wheelchair until recently) only to find that the web and graphic design had passed me by, while I spent all my time getting ready to die. When the docs fixed me up I had to do something–yet wasn’t up to getting back into the active workplace quite yet.  So I went to the library (also Barnes & Noble Booksellers) and got a whole mountain of reference material & manuals; 3-months later I published my first personal web site.  Now I’ve got 3 full-time marketing clients, am designing web pages for several others—AND THE DEEP PIT OF LONELINESS DOESN’T REALLY HOLD ANY FEAR FOR ME–HELL, I DON’T HAVE TIME TO BE LONELY, AND I HAVEN’T SINCE I DOVE INTO RE-LEARNING THE WEB AND GRAPHIC DESIGN!!  But I do remember!!!  Hope maybe I helped some—Ken Hale — K. M.  Hale 4th Corner Web Innovations (Marketing) kmh…@mail.premier1.net jeff parsons <jeff…@hom.net> wrote in article <331E023A.4…@hom.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dear Jobless Folks, > I say we start posting stuff here on how we can better ourselves > say through ideas on how to start our own home business or something. > Not the stuff where you pay a guy to tell you well first you > have to advertise. But real stuff like who to contact for > tax purposes and how to get a liscence and what type > accounting records you need etc. I’m looking forward to learning > this my self. We could start with a hypothetical company such > as company "Rainbow" say a cleaning service or a tutor service > for students. Most of us are graduates. How would one start? > Make business cards? Get a liscence? Learn as much as you > can on say the cleaning profession? > Jeff

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Question:

Somewhere I read a comment from L. Francis Herreschoff. He was asked what was the hull speed of one of his designs. He replied, "A thousand knots, if you apply enough power." As a long time sailor, I can report that it is not all that unusual to exceed the supposed theoretical hull speed. Only once in 35 years of sailing, though, have I exceeded hull speed for more than a few minutes at a time.

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       What actually happens in going supersonic….. Good post! In very shallow water, water waves around a boat can come much closer to resembling sound waves around a trans-sonic airplane. That’s because there’s much less change in wave speed as a function of wavelenth (speed of sound waves is independent of wavelength) so the wave energy can accumulate in one wave-front. It’s even possible, under the right combination of speed and depth, to get that "shock wave"  extending out at right angles to the flow. In real-world situations, the way we usually see this is by observing a "spreading" of the trailing wave system in shallow water. — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

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This should start a war, but anyway: A boat even a planning hull does not climb up on its bow wave. Interesting theory but please explain to me what you call the wave I’ve observed under the quarter of a planing vessel when the entire bow area is in the air ?

A very good question. The bow wave occurs at and infront of the point where boat meets water. If a hull is designed to "fly" then the new bow is actually way aft of the normal low speed position. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It’s bow wave is like the shock wave infront of an airplane. When an aeroplane goes supersonic has it not then broken through the shockwave in front of it? No, It can’t. —            /       Michael W. Madden         _/ |      215 898-0939         /  |       -/   |      I’d rather be sailing!

–            /       Michael W. Madden         _/ |      215 898-0939         /  |       -/   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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= When an aeroplane goes supersonic has it not then broken through the shockwave in front of it? = Well, this is actually a bit of an oversimplification. Not a very relevant one in the discussion of planning boats but anyway. A bit less= simplified view could be described as below: =

[snip] Very good explaination, really. The point was that you can no more climb a bow wave than you can fly ahead of a planes shock wave. — =            /       Michael W. Madden         _/ |      215 898-0939         /  |       -/   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Something about the maxim that keel boats cannot plane has always bothered me. This summer, we met a lady that races a Laser 28..and we were aboard when she planed beating into the wind! This is a fin keeled boat too. She went from 5.5 to about 8.5kts. indicated, and we *felt* the acceleration, so it wasn’t something wierd with the speedo. How does this happen? Does the sail area alone push the boat up on the back edge of the bow wave? Even though she was beating are you sure that the predominant wafe was not abeam and was she really surfing ? — Regards,   Al Saunders, R.I.N. Author: Small Craft Piloting and Coastal Navigation Author: Small Craft Celestial Navigation Instructor: Canadian Yachting Association http://www.globalserve.net/~cbeeson/alzarc.htm

Al,   Positively, she was planning. When I reacted to the acceleration, she said that she does that regularly! She claims to have hit 11 kts. in this boat while beating! I can believe it, as the boat is *very* light and skittish. She races this boat exclusively, and has won some races. The Laser is under 5k lbs. I believe, which is light for a 28 ft. But a keel boat planning (and the boat actually rises a bit up out of the water) is what makes me wonder about how this is possible. Larry Demers

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul,   Something about the maxim that keel boats cannot plane has always bothered me. This summer, we met a lady that races a Laser 28..and we were aboard when she planed beating into the wind! This is a fin keeled boat too. She went from 5.5 to about 8.5kts. indicated, and we *felt* the acceleration, so it wasn’t something wierd with the speedo. How does this happen? Does the sail area alone push the boat up on the back edge of the bow wave? This should start a war, but anyway: A boat even a planning hull does not climb up on its bow wave.

Interesting theory but please explain to me what you call the wave I’ve observed under the quarter of a planing vessel when the entire bow area is in the air ?  It’s bow wave is like the shock wave infront of an airplane.

When an aeroplane goes supersonic has it not then broken through the shockwave in front of it?  Planning actually happens when a boat breaks the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – suction under the stern. This suction occurs because gravity cannot fill the hole where the boat used to be fast enough. This can happen in several ways, but the most common is by lifting the entire boat out of the water. The upward force caused by the boats foward motion and the hull shape increases as the boat speed increases. As the boat rises it’s displacement decreases and the shape presented to the water changes. Eventually the boat reaches a balance between hull lift and drag and from there on the boat is said to be planning. Of course it’s easier to drill holes in the bottom and let air fill the vaccumn at the stern. —            /       Michael W. Madden         _/ |      215 898-0939         /  |       -/   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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When an aeroplane goes supersonic has it not then broken through the shockwave in front of it?

Well, this is actually a bit of an oversimplification. Not a very relevant one in the discussion of planning boats but anyway. A bit less simplified view could be described as below: The shockwave of a supersonic aeroplane actually consists of several small waves. This is because the velocity of flow is different in different places along the surface of the wing, for example. As a result, different parts of the craft "Break the sound barrier" at different times, depending on the local flow velocities. What actually happens in going supersonic, is that the shockwave pattern generated by the aeroplane just changes shape. Think about the wing surface for a moment. When the flow velocity approaches sonic, it does so first at the point in the profile where the velocity is at its maximum. This is typically the thickest point of the profile. When the aircraft speed- and along with it the flow velocity over the wing surface- increases, the point of sonic velocity creeps forward until it reaches the leading edge of the wing. At this point the shockwave pattern changes shape from essentially normal to the surface to a sharp pointed "angle". The amount of change is governed by a lot of variables including the "bluntness" of the leading edge. The significance of the wave shape has to do with the pressure distribution before and after the wave. In front of the wave, the flow velocity is supersonic and pressure is low. After the wave, the velocity is typically subsonic and the pressure is high (Bernoulli). In the case of a shockwave which is normal to the flow, the drop in velocity and the associated rise in pressure is big. In a wave of, say 45 degrees, the effect is much smaller. This means that the flow over the surface of a supersonic aircraft may well be subsonic all the way. The shockwaves in front of all the leading edges take care of this. Now, the "bang" you hear when a supersonic aeroplane passes is *not* the sound of a "sound barrier breaking" but the audible indication of the very prapid pressure increase behind the shockwave. The fact that a lot of power is required to go supersonic is probably due to the fact that at the point when there exists a shockwave normal to the flow somewhere along the wing surface, the velocity drop is bound to be very detrimental to lift generated by the wing. In addition to this, the leading edge of the wing experienced a supersonic flow, while the trailing edge experienced a subsonic flow. This again leads to weird cordwise distribution of lift, which again has some effect to the controllability problems experienced by the pioneers of supeersonic flight. What has this to do with the bow wave of a planning boat hull? Not much! Even though the two phenomena look similar from the outside, they are not. The onset of planning has to do with dynamic lift of the hull, resulting in a change of the caracteristics of the wave pattern of the boat. This has been described by a lot of posters in this thread. The "breaking of the sound barrier" has to do with local velocity/pressure distributions along the surface. And again: I am not an expert on either of these subjects, so I am getting ready to don my flameproof clothing. Until then, timo

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Windsurfers are light enough to plane. A 505 doesn’t experience a hull-speed limit either.

: : It seems to me that a surfboarder can reach very repspectable : speeds with no apparent means of locomotion at all. … : :This is on an inland lake where there are no significant waves :except for the occassional wake from a waverunner or small motor :boat.  Surfers on this lake are dead in the water unless they :have a sail on their board!  My favored theory remains that there :is some funny interaction between boat heel, water flow, and the :speedo, i.e., that it is a false reading. : :Russell : :– : Newton plain doesn’t work, even as an approximation, : except within certain limits.        – Moggin Rodney Myrvaagnes   J36 Gjo/a   20 years without a car, TV, or home page

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          Well I NEVER said keelboats can’t plane…. My apologies – that was directed at a previous post in the same thread.           As for planing vs. aeration they are two paths to the same end.           If we agree on a definition of planing: lifting the boat out           of the water by means of lift generated by the forward motion           of the boat in order to present a smaller displacement to to           water, then the effect of planing is to reduce the energy           required to fill the hole where the boat just was. i.e.           smaller hole less energy. Aerating the stern also reduces the           energy required to fill this hole by using air instead of water,           about 80 times less work for the same volume. Transom aeration can be observed on large vessels operating *way* below hull speed. Again, it has nothing to do with planing. You can also plane without aerating the transom (Santa Cruz 27, for example). If we go with your novel "energy required to fill the hole in the water" theory, it seems to me that when the hole in the water fills, the energy is being returned. The boat has to work to push the water *out* of the hole, right? If the transom is aerated, isn’t the hole bigger? And if hydrodynamic instead of hydrostatic forces support the hull, doesn’t Newton’s third law (action = reaction) suggest that the water still gets pushed downward by the same amount, making the same size hole? I’m not trying to dismiss this way of looking at wave resistance – it probably ends up being equivalent to the standard techniques, if we’re careful with our energy accounting. But the popular misconception of transom aeration = planing is just that. — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

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A few minuts might be possible on a large wave – but hours? (sailors exagerate). — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html

Paul, Once I was walking along and saw a fly fisherman with only one arm.  I couldn’t believe it.  There he was fly fishing with only one arm.  I had to stop and ask him, "Did you catch anything?"  He held up one hand and said I caught one, that big!" Sea Ya! Bart Senior, ASA Sailing Instructor           ARS:  KC5VUO copyright 1996

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  Something about the maxim that keel boats cannot plane has always bothered me. This summer, we met a lady that races a Laser 28..and we were aboard when she planed beating into the wind! This is a fin keeled boat too. She went from 5.5 to about 8.5kts. indicated, and we *felt* the acceleration, so it wasn’t something wierd with the speedo. How does this happen? Does the sail area alone push the boat up on the back edge of the bow wave?

Even though she was beating are you sure that the predominant wafe was not abeam and was she really surfing ? — Regards,   Al Saunders, R.I.N. Author: Small Craft Piloting and Coastal Navigation Author: Small Craft Celestial Navigation Instructor: Canadian Yachting Association http://www.globalserve.net/~cbeeson/alzarc.htm

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Even though she was beating are you sure that the predominant wafe was not abeam and was she really surfing ?

I’ve seen this behavior on my Hunter 23 in protected waters where the biggest waves are those generated by power boats. On a reach or run, we never break 4+ knots, but close hauled in a good breeze the knotmeter will hit 7 or even 8 for short distances.  I have no idea why, and I have no way of measuring the speed more objectively.  I have speculated that the heeling causes odd water flow over the speedo, but (a) this happens on both tacks, and (b) it happens mostly when we keep her on her feet. Beats me.  I have a hard time believing we are actually going that fast in a 23′ keelboat, so I suspect it is something funky in how the speedo works … Russell —  Newton plain doesn’t work, even as an approximation,  except within certain limits.        – Moggin

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Paul,   Something about the maxim that keel boats cannot plane has always bothered me. This summer, we met a lady that races a Laser 28..and we were aboard when she planed beating into the wind! This is a fin keeled boat too. She went from 5.5 to about 8.5kts. indicated, and we *felt* the acceleration, so it wasn’t something wierd with the speedo. How does this happen? Does the sail area alone push the boat up on the back edge of the bow wave?

This should start a war, but anyway: A boat even a planning hull does not climb up on its bow wave. It’s bow wave is like the shock wave infront of an airplane. Planning actually happens when a boat breaks the suction under the stern. This suction occurs because gravity cannot fill the hole where the boat used to be fast enough. This can happen in several ways, but the most common is by lifting the entire boat out of the water. The upward force caused by the boats foward motion and the hull shape increases as the boat speed increases. As the boat rises it’s displacement decreases and the shape presented to the water changes. Eventually the boat reaches a balance between hull lift and drag and from there on the boat is said to be planning. Of course it’s easier to drill holes in the bottom and let air fill the vaccumn at the stern. —            /       Michael W. Madden         _/ |      215 898-0939         /  |       -/   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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It seems to me that a surfboarder can reach very repspectable speeds with no apparent means of locomotion at all. …

This is on an inland lake where there are no significant waves except for the occassional wake from a waverunner or small motor boat.  Surfers on this lake are dead in the water unless they have a sail on their board!  My favored theory remains that there is some funny interaction between boat heel, water flow, and the speedo, i.e., that it is a false reading. Russell —  Newton plain doesn’t work, even as an approximation,  except within certain limits.        – Moggin

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I think you are confusing "transom aeration" with planing. On many boats the two phenomena happen to occur at about the same speed, but they’re unrelated. Your stern suction explanation seems to depend on local pressure on the hull being somewhat less than atmospheric before planing, but increasing again at the onset of planing. Can you explain why this would happen? And who ever said keelboats can’t plane? We see it every day.

Well I NEVER said keelboats can’t plan. My J27 can blow you away on little 6 inch waves and we love power boaters crossing behind us. As for planing vs. aeration they are two paths to the same end. If we agree on a definition of planing: lifting the boat out of the water by means of lift generated by the forward motion of the boat in order to present a smaller displacement to to water, then the effect of planing is to reduce the energy required to fill the hole where the boat just was. i.e. smaller hole less energy. Aerating the stern also reduces the energy required to fill this hole by using air instead of water, about 80 times less work for the same volume. —            /       Michael W. Madden         _/ |      215 898-0939         /  |       -/   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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Even though she was beating are you sure that the predominant wafe was not abeam and was she really surfing ? I’ve seen this behavior on my Hunter 23 in protected waters where the biggest waves are those generated by power boats. On a reach or run, we never break 4+ knots, but close hauled in a good breeze the knotmeter will hit 7 or even 8 for short distances.  I have no idea why, and I have no way of Russell —

It seems to me that a surfboarder can reach very repspectable speeds with no apparent means of locomotion at all.  The surfer merely position the board as to be moving approximately parallel with a wave but poing slight ‘downill on the leading surface of the wave’.  The surfer, due to gravity, will move ‘downhill’.  The surfer does not move directly down the wave surface or it would be a short ride.  He approximately parallels the frontal surface so that he is going slightly downhill in the direction of the wave but also along the frontal surface nearly parallel to the wave.  In this manner the surfer can reach speeds of many times the speed at which the wave is being propogated forward.  The same is true of a sailboat.  In fact once you get the sailboat in a surfing situation you would actually increase your speed if you could instantaneously furl your sails to reduce forward movement wind resistance. Generally, to get a sailboat in a surfing situation requires large fast waves and because you lose much of your steering capability there is a high likelihood of broaching or pitchpoling.  It is a great thrill but phenomenally dangerous. — Regards,   Al Saunders, R.I.N. Author: Small Craft Piloting and Coastal Navigation Author: Small Craft Celestial Navigation Instructor: Canadian Yachting Association http://www.globalserve.net/~cbeeson/alzarc.htm

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       This should start a war, but anyway:….. Blam! Pow! Rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat  Ka-Boom!        ….Planning actually happens when a boat breaks the        suction under the stern….. I think you are confusing "transom aeration" with planing. On many boats the two phenomena happen to occur at about the same speed, but they’re unrelated. Your stern suction explanation seems to depend on local pressure on the hull being somewhat less than atmospheric before planing, but increasing again at the onset of planing. Can you explain why this would happen? And who ever said keelboats can’t plane? We see it every day. — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

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First, is LWL the striaght line distance from bow to stern, or the two dimensional arc around the beam? Second, and possibly answered by the first, My gut feeling says a beamier boat will have a lower hull speed.  Am I confused?  There was an earlier post that suggested that a narrow beamed boat can "cut" through the bow wake much easier.

Hull speed is based on the standing wavelength of the wave train. Basically, at hull speed the boat sits in a trough between two crests–one wave length.  Therefore the waterline length–beam is not a factor, effects hull speed.  When the forces increase the boat cannot go faster, but something has to happen–conservation of energy. If a boat cannot plane, increasing power will force it underwater–it will sink deeper in the trough.  My buddy Saul sank a dignghy once and the fellow who tried to tow him didn’t know this hot-rodded the tow boat and is sank it he trought it made.  Saul like to brag he sank two boats in one day.  Anyway, lots of overhang, means not only reserve buoancy, but a slight increase in hull speed as the waterline length increases as the boat sinks slightly.  Reserve Buoancy is an important factor in chosing a boat–it keeps it from sinking. For boats that plane, the bow can come out of the water and the limitations of waterline lenght are overcome–you might call it warp speed. Hence a short boat on plane is just as fast or faster than a longer boat.  For example the Pacific Cup was won a few years back by a Moore 24 with a busted radio, suprised everyone by winning over much bigger and usually faster SC70’s–much to the chagrin of the SC70 owners.  Moore 24’s are about perfect for surfing for hours the waves of the Pacific–literally surfing the same wave for hours! So what does beam get you?  More room inside, less pointing ability, less initial heel, greater righting moment (until the critical angle is reached), and increased planing ability (especialy for flat bottomed boats). Sea Ya! Bart Senior, ASA Sailing Instructor           ARS:  KC5VUO copyright 1996

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         ……            Moore 24’s are about perfect for surfing for hours the waves          of the Pacific–literally surfing the same wave for hours!          …… Agree about Morre 24s, but I need to bring up pesky wave theory again and spoil the fun: In deep water, the "envelope velocity" or speed of energy propagation is only half that of the "phase velocity" or celerity, which is the speed of the wave profile. As a consequence of this, any one individual wave will always be losing energy to the wave behind it, and the life of any one wave is necessarily short. In real ocean conditions you will find nodes between even the most regular wave trains, where other wavelengths and wave periods take over. Every individual wave gradually moves to the front of its wave train (becuase it outruns its energy source) and dissipates. A few minuts might be possible on a large wave – but hours? (sailors exagerate). — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

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It is easy to confuse hull speed with the amount of power needed to achieve such.  I would argue that a boat with greater beam would probably need more power to reach hull speed but that its hull  speed would not necessarily be less.   Also, when calculating hull speed it’s important to take into account the fact that a boat’s LWL may be much greater while underway vs at rest. Many older designs such as mine, where not drawn to sail upright. Eric Machinist Grampian 31 Classic

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Hull speed is based on the standing wavelength of the wave train. Basically, at hull speed the boat sits in a trough between two crests–one wave length.  Therefore the waterline length–beam is not a factor, effects hull speed.  When the forces increase the boat cannot go faster, but something has to happen–conservation of energy. Bart Senior, ASA Sailing Instructor           ARS:  KC5VUO copyright 1996

Bart,      My understanding is that hulls with a LWL:Beam ratio of 10:1 or more aren’t limited by this formula because they cut through the bow wave.      If this weren’t the case, then my Hobie 18 would be limited to 6.36 knots, not the 15 to 18 that is possible.  I think, to this extent, beam DOES make a difference, although you’re probably correct in reference to monohull sailboats.      My guess is that this is also the thing that allows destroyers to reach 32 knots without being 450 feet long. Brian McGee

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –               First, is LWL the straight line distance from bow to               stern, or the two dimensional arc around the beam? It’s the straight-line distance. Even if the boat was very wide compared to it’s length (imagine a floating plank being towed sideways) the stern wave crest would still come up at a position which satisfied the speed-wavelength relationship V=SQRT(g*L/(2*pi)).               Second, and possibly answered by the first, My gut feeling               says a beamier boat will have a lower hull speed.  Am I               confused?  There was an earlier post that suggested that a               narrow beamed boat can "cut" through the bow wake much               easier. Your intuition is correct. For two hulls of similar length and displacement, the one that’s narrower and deeper will generate less wave resistance. In fact the basic linearized mathematical models for computing wave resistance show that wave resistance is proportional to beam squared. Here’s a not-very-rigorous intuitive approach: Think of a boat being driven beyond hull speed as trying to climb the back of the bow wave or the "uphill" side of the concave water surface it creates, without having the "downhill" stern wave face to balance the forces. The narrower boat, having less waterplane, will feel smaller forces due to the adverse slope of the water surface. An absurdly narrow boat – again think of a plank, but this time turn it on edge and tow it the easy way – will feel vanishingly small resistance due to the "uphill" water surface. (I said this wasn’t very rigoruos, and there’s a serious flaw in this reasoning – but that will be "left as an exercise for the reader") All bets are off if the hull can plane, however, and in practice the wide boat often has the advantage (more sail-carrying power, more dynamic lift for planing). — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

Fishmeal should know, but I always thought that "hull speed" was the terminal speed that a boat could not exceed without planing. All other factors which control speed, e.g. beam, sail area, merely dictate how soon a boat reaches hull speed and how long it stays there. —

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First, is LWL the striaght line distance from bow to stern, or the two dimensional arc around the beam? Second, and possibly answered by the first, My gut feeling says a beamier boat will have a lower hull speed.  Am I confused?  There was an earlier post that suggested that a narrow beamed boat can "cut" through the bow wake much easier. Thanks in advance. D. George Jensen San Diego, CA, USA

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              First, is LWL the straight line distance from bow to               stern, or the two dimensional arc around the beam? It’s the straight-line distance. Even if the boat was very wide compared to it’s length (imagine a floating plank being towed sideways) the stern wave crest would still come up at a position which satisfied the speed-wavelength relationship V=SQRT(g*L/(2*pi)).               Second, and possibly answered by the first, My gut feeling               says a beamier boat will have a lower hull speed.  Am I               confused?  There was an earlier post that suggested that a               narrow beamed boat can "cut" through the bow wake much               easier. Your intuition is correct. For two hulls of similar length and displacement, the one that’s narrower and deeper will generate less wave resistance. In fact the basic linearized mathematical models for computing wave resistance show that wave resistance is proportional to beam squared. Here’s a not-very-rigorous intuitive approach: Think of a boat being driven beyond hull speed as trying to climb the back of the bow wave or the "uphill" side of the concave water surface it creates, without having the "downhill" stern wave face to balance the forces. The narrower boat, having less waterplane, will feel smaller forces due to the adverse slope of the water surface. An absurdly narrow boat – again think of a plank, but this time turn it on edge and tow it the easy way – will feel vanishingly small resistance due to the "uphill" water surface. (I said this wasn’t very rigoruos, and there’s a serious flaw in this reasoning – but that will be "left as an exercise for the reader") All bets are off if the hull can plane, however, and in practice the wide boat often has the advantage (more sail-carrying power, more dynamic lift for planing). — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –              First, is LWL the straight line distance from bow to              stern, or the two dimensional arc around the beam? It’s the straight-line distance. Even if the boat was very wide compared to it’s length (imagine a floating plank being towed sideways) the stern wave crest would still come up at a position which satisfied the speed-wavelength relationship V=SQRT(g*L/(2*pi)).              Second, and possibly answered by the first, My gut feeling              says a beamier boat will have a lower hull speed.  Am I              confused?  There was an earlier post that suggested that a              narrow beamed boat can "cut" through the bow wake much              easier. Your intuition is correct. For two hulls of similar length and displacement, the one that’s narrower and deeper will generate less wave resistance. In fact the basic linearized mathematical models for computing wave resistance show that wave resistance is proportional to beam squared. Here’s a not-very-rigorous intuitive approach: Think of a boat being driven beyond hull speed as trying to climb the back of the bow wave or the "uphill" side of the concave water surface it creates, without having the "downhill" stern wave face to balance the forces. The narrower boat, having less waterplane, will feel smaller forces due to the adverse slope of the water surface. An absurdly narrow boat – again think of a plank, but this time turn it on edge and tow it the easy way – will feel vanishingly small resistance due to the "uphill" water surface. (I said this wasn’t very rigoruos, and there’s a serious flaw in this reasoning – but that will be "left as an exercise for the reader") All bets are off if the hull can plane, however, and in practice the wide boat often has the advantage (more sail-carrying power, more dynamic lift for planing). — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                              -"Call me Fishmeal"-

Paul,   Something about the maxim that keel boats cannot plane has always bothered me. This summer, we met a lady that races a Laser 28..and we were aboard when she planed beating into the wind! This is a fin keeled boat too. She went from 5.5 to about 8.5kts. indicated, and we *felt* the acceleration, so it wasn’t something wierd with the speedo. How does this happen? Does the sail area alone push the boat up on the back edge of the bow wave?

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