Question:

There’s no accounting for tastes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this … KASSEL, Germany : A self-confessed cannibal went on trial in Germany, accused of murdering a man who was apparently a willing accomplice in his videotaped death, dissection and consumption. In chilling, matter-of-fact detail, Armin Meiwes told the hushed court how his obsession with cannibalism developed as a child and eventually led him to kill and eat a fellow human being. The suspect and victim met in early 2001, after Armin M is said to have posted a personal ad on several websites and in chatrooms asking for "young, well-built men aged 18 to 30 to slaughter", the German daily newspaper Bild reported at the time of his arrest. The advertisement read in part "Are you max 30 years old, with a normal body, then you are just right for me. I want to slaughter you and consume your delicious flesh." Sex on the Internet is well known. But cannibalism? It’s out there too. One particular web forum has an explicit board containing messages such as from Diana, looking for "an experienced butcher" for "conventional slaughter" at her home. A man offers to get rid of women aged up to 40 who have become "useless and a burden." Other visitors offer to sacrifice a foot, a hand or an ear. German criminologist Rudolf Egg (!) said it reflected on society as a whole. "People should ask themselves what they like about it, why they do it and what that actually reveals of their personality and their sexual frustrations in society." The victim in this particular case was a 43-year-old Berlin computer technician who had sold his car, written a will and taken the day off work to sort out what he called a "personal" matter. He then went to Armin M’s home, where the pair reportedly agreed to cut off his penis. Police declined comment on reports that they first flambeed the organ in spirits, then, after tasting it, decided to fry it. The macabre case is unprecedented in German legal history and has gripped the country in horrified fascination. Meiwes, a 42-year-old computer technician who says he regrets what he did, admits the killing but insists it was not murder as he was only doing what he had been asked. Testifying Wednesday on the opening day of his trial for murder, he said his fantasy first developed between the ages of eight and 12. He would imagine killing, carving up and eating schoolfriends whom he liked. Meiwes, dressed smartly in a dark jacket and tie, said he felt lonely as a child and longed for a younger brother, his father having abandoned the family. His longing for a brother led him to imagining binding a friend to him for ever by consuming him. It also aroused him sexually, he admitted. "Slim and blond, that would have been the type," he told the court. Meiwes said horror films and watching animals being slaughtered heightened his imagination. "I had the fantasy, and in the end I fulfilled it." Television pictures earlier showed him laughing and chatting easily to his lawyer moments before the trial opened in Kassel, central Germany. The case is legally complex as cannibalism is not a crime in Germany. Legal experts have doubted whether prosecutors will be able to sustain the charge of murder for the purposes of sexual satisfaction. Nevertheless, prosecutors argue that even though the victim, Bernd Juergen Brandes, had an apparent death wish, Meiwes is still guilty of murder because he was always intent on killing him. If convicted, he would be liable for life in prison. He is also accused of "disturbing the peace of the dead" for carving up the body. Defence lawyers argue that, at worst, he is guilty of "killing on demand," which would be punishable by up to five years in prison. It was unclear whether the videos taken during the incident in March 2001 would be shown in public or behind closed doors. Investigators who have scanned them have spoken of scenes like "in a horror film." Meiwes, who has admitted his actions to investigators and in interviews in newspapers, has said he made contact with Brandes, a 43-year-old Berlin engineer, on the Internet after advertising for someone willing to be killed and eaten. Brandes travelled to his house in Rotenburg, near Kassel, where Meiwes cut off his penis, which they partially ate together. Then Meiwes stabbed him, carved up the body, ate some of the flesh, stored some more in a deep-freeze for later consumption and buried bones and the skull in his garden. The whole scenario was recorded on video, again with the apparent agreement of Brandes. In an interview released Tuesday, Meiwes said it was not a case of murder because Brandes "used me as a tool" to help him die. "My friend enjoyed dying, death. I only waited horrified for the end after doing the deed. It took so terribly long," he said. The case did not emerge until an Austrian student spotted another advertisement placed by Meiwes on the Internet and alerted police. Officers who studied the 16 computers, 221 hard drives, 95 CD-Roms, nearly 1,800 diskettes and 307 videos found at his home tapped into a hitherto hidden cannibal scene. Apparently the victim lied about his age so he could participate! Obviously the cannibal swallowed his story. berko

– If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other. Carl Schurz (1829-1906)

Response:

There’s no accounting for tastes. He then went to Armin M’s home, where the pair reportedly agreed to cut off his penis. Police declined comment on reports that they first flambeed the organ in spirits, then, after tasting it, decided to fry it.

Apparently one man’s meat is another’s penis. berko

Response:

I just found this … KASSEL, Germany : A self-confessed cannibal went on trial in Germany, accused of murdering a man who was apparently a willing accomplice in his videotaped death, dissection and consumption. In chilling, matter-of-fact detail, Armin Meiwes told the hushed court how his obsession with cannibalism developed as a child and eventually led him to kill and eat a fellow human being. The suspect and victim met in early 2001, after Armin M is said to have posted a personal ad on several websites and in chatrooms asking for "young, well-built men aged 18 to 30 to slaughter", the German daily newspaper Bild reported at the time of his arrest. The advertisement read in part "Are you max 30 years old, with a normal body, then you are just right for me. I want to slaughter you and consume your delicious flesh." Sex on the Internet is well known. But cannibalism? It’s out there too. One particular web forum has an explicit board containing messages such as from Diana, looking for "an experienced butcher" for "conventional slaughter" at her home. A man offers to get rid of women aged up to 40 who have become "useless and a burden." Other visitors offer to sacrifice a foot, a hand or an ear. German criminologist Rudolf Egg (!) said it reflected on society as a whole. "People should ask themselves what they like about it, why they do it and what that actually reveals of their personality and their sexual frustrations in society." The victim in this particular case was a 43-year-old Berlin computer technician who had sold his car, written a will and taken the day off work to sort out what he called a "personal" matter. He then went to Armin M’s home, where the pair reportedly agreed to cut off his penis. Police declined comment on reports that they first flambeed the organ in spirits, then, after tasting it, decided to fry it. The macabre case is unprecedented in German legal history and has gripped the country in horrified fascination. Meiwes, a 42-year-old computer technician who says he regrets what he did, admits the killing but insists it was not murder as he was only doing what he had been asked. Testifying Wednesday on the opening day of his trial for murder, he said his fantasy first developed between the ages of eight and 12. He would imagine killing, carving up and eating schoolfriends whom he liked. Meiwes, dressed smartly in a dark jacket and tie, said he felt lonely as a child and longed for a younger brother, his father having abandoned the family. His longing for a brother led him to imagining binding a friend to him for ever by consuming him. It also aroused him sexually, he admitted. "Slim and blond, that would have been the type," he told the court. Meiwes said horror films and watching animals being slaughtered heightened his imagination. "I had the fantasy, and in the end I fulfilled it." Television pictures earlier showed him laughing and chatting easily to his lawyer moments before the trial opened in Kassel, central Germany. The case is legally complex as cannibalism is not a crime in Germany. Legal experts have doubted whether prosecutors will be able to sustain the charge of murder for the purposes of sexual satisfaction. Nevertheless, prosecutors argue that even though the victim, Bernd Juergen Brandes, had an apparent death wish, Meiwes is still guilty of murder because he was always intent on killing him. If convicted, he would be liable for life in prison. He is also accused of "disturbing the peace of the dead" for carving up the body. Defence lawyers argue that, at worst, he is guilty of "killing on demand," which would be punishable by up to five years in prison. It was unclear whether the videos taken during the incident in March 2001 would be shown in public or behind closed doors. Investigators who have scanned them have spoken of scenes like "in a horror film." Meiwes, who has admitted his actions to investigators and in interviews in newspapers, has said he made contact with Brandes, a 43-year-old Berlin engineer, on the Internet after advertising for someone willing to be killed and eaten. Brandes travelled to his house in Rotenburg, near Kassel, where Meiwes cut off his penis, which they partially ate together. Then Meiwes stabbed him, carved up the body, ate some of the flesh, stored some more in a deep-freeze for later consumption and buried bones and the skull in his garden. The whole scenario was recorded on video, again with the apparent agreement of Brandes. In an interview released Tuesday, Meiwes said it was not a case of murder because Brandes "used me as a tool" to help him die. "My friend enjoyed dying, death. I only waited horrified for the end after doing the deed. It took so terribly long," he said. The case did not emerge until an Austrian student spotted another advertisement placed by Meiwes on the Internet and alerted police. Officers who studied the 16 computers, 221 hard drives, 95 CD-Roms, nearly 1,800 diskettes and 307 videos found at his home tapped into a hitherto hidden cannibal scene. Apparently the victim lied about his age so he could participate! Obviously the cannibal swallowed his story. berko

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Question:

More than enough information for a change of government (removal of organized-crime ruling elites)  follows. Iraq weapons and terrorism ties all part of a big lie launched by neo-consand Rockefeller asset Powell within hours of 911  – Writing in the Daily Mirror, John Pilger reveals that both US Secretary of  State Colin Powell and Bush’s closest adviser Condaleeza Rice said, in 2001,  that Saddam Hussein was effectively disarmed and no threat – putting the lie to their own propaganda.  – Pilger:   EXACTLY one year ago, Tony Blair told Parliament: "Saddam Hussein’s weapons  of mass destruction programme is active, detailed and growing.  "The policy of containment is not working. The weapons of mass destruction  programme is not shut down. It is up and running now." http://pilger.carlton.com/print  also www.mirror.co.uk Over 1,500 violent civilian deaths in occupied Baghdad — Compare what Jews Franks, Meyer, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz are doing in occupied Iraq with Hitler’s pathetic little Krystalhacht (in which no one was killed)  –  From April 14th to 31st August, 2,846 violent deaths were recorded by the Baghdad city morgue. When corrected for pre-war death rates in the city a total of at least 1,519 excess violent deaths in Baghdad emerges from reports based on the morgue’s records (adjusted for the comparable "background level" of deaths in Baghdad in recent pre-war harsh-sanctions times.) http://www.iraqbodycount.net/press.htm When Israel’s finance minister Binyamin Netanyahu was interviewed for the radio on the morning after the horrific terror attack on Caf

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This article is from CBS Marketwatch.  Reading it, I couldn’t help but think how flabbergasted one of my audit teams would have been if the justifications going around Worldcom had been made to us. You have an expense that isn’t generating any revenue, so you should be allowed to capitalize the expense until you are actually generating revenue. And equating that to holding books for inventory until you sell them is just the height of ridiculousness.  The book represents an asset that you can sell in the future for profit.  The line access you "rent" is gone the moment you rent it.  If you didn’t sell it, too bad. I can’t believe that any experenced accountant could possibly sit there and try to justify that position to a board of directors.  I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at that meeting. Chris

Seems to me a more realistic comparison would be airline seat miles.   Once the flight has left the gate, unused seat miles simply evaporate. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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This article is from CBS Marketwatch.  Reading it, I couldn’t help but think how flabbergasted one of my audit teams would have been if the justifications going around Worldcom had been made to us. You have an expense that isn’t generating any revenue, so you should be allowed to capitalize the expense until you are actually generating revenue.   And equating that to holding books for inventory until you sell them is just the height of ridiculousness.  The book represents an asset that you can sell in the future for profit.  The line access you "rent" is gone the moment you rent it.  If you didn’t sell it, too bad.   I can’t believe that any experenced accountant could possibly sit there and try to justify that position to a board of directors.  I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at that meeting.   Chris WorldCom ruse dates to early 2000   By Jeffry Bartash, CBS.MarketWatch.com WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) – WorldCom may have started manipulating financial results in early 2000, a year earlier than previously reported, a key U.S. lawmaker asserted Monday. Rep. Billy Tauzin said internal documents show WorldCom started treating ordinary network costs as capital expenses in the first quarter of 2000. The Louisiana Republican heads the House Commerce Committee, which is investigating the nation’s No. 2 long-distance carrier. Yet the amount in question, $33 million so far, is far smaller than in 2001 and the first quarter of 2002. During that period, WorldCom treated $3.8 billion in so-called line costs as capital expenses that could be written off over a period of years. The ruse inflated profits and hid a sharp deterioration in WorldCom’s financial health. The newly released documents fail to offer clear evidence that former Chief Executive Bernie Ebbers was actively involved in the scheme. Ebbers, who denied any wrongdoing at a congressional hearing last week, resigned in April after 17 years at the helm of the company he co-founded. Chief Financial Officer Scott Sullivan was fired June 25 after admitting to WorldCom’s board that he treated billions of dollars in ordinary business costs as long-term capital investments. While Sullivan initially told board members that Ebbers was not involved, congressional investigators alleged last week that the former CFO has fingered his ex-boss. Mining the files Earlier this month, WorldCom (WCOME: news, chart) turned over five boxes of internal documents to the House panel. Among other things, they show that Sullivan tried to delay an internal audit and conceal the accounting scheme in a onetime write-off. In addition, Ebbers pressed for a 50 percent reduction in internal auditing costs at the March 2000 board meeting, shortly before he resigned under pressure. The board voted to cut the auditing budget by only 10 percent. Since the scandal erupted, top WorldCom executives have claimed ignorance about what Sullivan was doing. What’s clear now is that some lower-level employees weren’t in the dark. Indeed, several expressed discomfort. And one, Troy Normand, "contemplated resigning in 2000" because of a "aggressive accounting" strategy that he believed was "wrong," according to a company email. Normand took his objection to Sullivan at the end of the 2000 third quarter, but Sullivan "assured him that everything was all right," the documents say. "Troy indicated that he did not know enough to refute Scott’s explanation." Normand said at least two other co-workers expressed concerns about capitalizing line costs to WorldCom controller David Myers in 2001. Myers resigned last month. In April 2000, Myers expressed disapproval with a senior executive in WorldCom’s European operations after the official told Andersen accountants that U.S. financial managers had reduced overseas line costs by $33.6 million. The executive, Steven Brabbs, objected to the decision but was ordered by Sullivan to legitimize the accounting tactic on the company’s books. He made repeated inquiries for clarification, but U.S. financial managers "were reluctant to discuss it," he said. During 2000 and 2001, several executives repeatedly discussed the possibility and appropriateness of treating line costs as a capital expense. Such costs are often paid up front to lease access to lines to potential customers. Since some lines weren’t being used amid an excess of network capacity, several managers argued that line costs should be treated as a future investment. Once the line went into use, they argued, the company could then start to treat the costs associated with it as an ordinary business expense. Yet one official, Buford Yates, said in an email exchange on July 25, 2000: "David (Myers) and I have reviewed and discussed your logic of capitalizing excess capacity and can find no support within the current accounting guidelines that would allow for this accounting treatment." Despite such admonition, Sullivan and several underlings persisted until they got their way. One executive likened line expenses to bookseller costs. Booksellers don’t have to incur a cost for the books they stock until each one is actually sold. "There is no reason why I should have to recognize any expense until I sell the product," wrote Tony Minert in an email to Myers on July 19, 2000. "Of course this would make it an inventory or a prepaid, which would not have the benefits of capitalizing the costs." By capitalizing the line costs, WorldCom was able to report profits over the past five quarters. WorldCom is now revising its financial results to show a loss during that time instead. The company is also looking at results going back to 1999, but current CEO John Sidgmore said he doesn’t expect any "major revelations." Following a review of the documents, the House Commerce Committee plans to call witnesses for interviews. On the money trail Shares of WorldCom (WCOME: news, chart) slipped 2 cents on Monday to close at 12 cents. Most analysts expect WorldCom to end up in bankruptcy court, which could render those shares worthless. The latest speculation centers on banks providing WorldCom with "debtor-in-possession" financing while executives try to work out a prepackaged bankruptcy filing with the bondholders of $28 billion in company debt. Banks would jump to first in line among WorldCom creditors, giving bondholders incentive to strike a quick deal to reduce the chance of an outright WorldCom failure. Right now banks and bondholders would have equal weight in a bankruptcy proceeding. Bondholders could be given equity in a newly capitalized WorldCom in exchange for canceling their debt. Unburdened of its debt, WorldCom might be able to start fresh or present a more compelling takeover target for a healthier phone company, such as one of the Baby Bells. <End Article

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Question:

Thanks for the link to the site, Megan. I agree with you. It is thoroughly depressing and it really sickens me about how people say *oh how terrible* and then do nothing about helping because *it’s not their problem*. A case in point was at my vet surgery this morning. I had gone to get Tiger checked over, and a lady came in with a cat that had been hit by a car. The vet, as they do, rushed to give aid and asked the lady for her contact details so they could treat it. She turned around and said *I’m not giving them, it’s not my cat, and it’s not my problem*. Malcolm informed me that he *knows* the cat belongs to the lady who brought it in, but he can’t prove it – after all, tabbies with white bib and four white paws all *look the same*.

<snip When we had our home re-financed via a financial advisor, we had to go through our budget with hi, step by painful step, accounting for every sodding cent we spend or likely to spend during hte year. It was a long and painful porcess, but since he’s done this so often he had a list of likely expenses, like mortgage repayments, gas, water, electricity, council rates, pay-tv, internet, food, alcohol, cigereattes, petrol, car mainatenance, car rego etc etc etc. Quie eye-opening really, and at best, we were only making estimates. I was amazed at how much money I managed to spend on absolutely nothing each week. *That* money was the moneyt hat was going to get our motgage down from 30 years to 12 and it seems to be working so far as well. The rick is to live off plastic and neverhave much cash lying around. Cash gets spent on crap because its *there* whereas plastic seems to only buy what you need, well, it does for me anyway. However, what the financial advisor failed to budget in was the cost of having pets. And I"m nopt taling about cat & dog foos as they get bought int he weekly grocery shop. I’m talking about the cost of flea treatements, replacement collars (and leashes), repair costs for the damage they do (like carpet cleaning) and of course both regular and emergency vetinary care for each of them. He wanted to put down $200 a year, but I isnsisted on $1000 *each* a year. He thought I was nuts, but since pet health insurance is ridiculously expensive, and emergency will have to come straight out of my pocket. And I can’t possibly imagine saying to the vet "Oh, just put Shmogg down, I can’t afford the $200 to fix his leg". Shmogg & Fluff are my children. They will be taken care of, to the best of my ability. NAd if the y don’thave $1000 worth of vet bills a year, then my mortgage gets paid of quicker. But budgeting that much for the each of them does give me some peace of mind when I read about cats like Waffles who have suffered quite horrible injuries and have fully recovered. That sort of thing used to worry me at night, and now it doesn’t. When you are doing up your budgets, can I humbly advise you folk to "self insure" your own cat’s (or pet’s) health. I’d hate to have to find all that money out of one month’s salary otherwise, and after an emergency-free year, you have an extra $1000 or so to spend on whatever you like. Yowie

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I read with interest the thread about declaw sites, and found it very sad that someone was more worried about offending people with a picture of a freshly declawed cat than thinking about how offensive the procedure itself is. The picture illustrates exactly what happens when a cat is declawed, and if people are offended by that, so be it. Education isn’t always fun and games, and the truth can be pretty ugly. The attitude the poster had reminded me of an article I read recently that I think illustrates quite well just how many people would rather wear blinders than to deal with reality. If anyone is interested in reading it here is the link: http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/browse/view_article.gsp?c_id=2…

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I read with interest the thread about declaw sites, and found it very sad that someone was more worried about offending people with a picture of a freshly declawed cat than thinking about how offensive the procedure itself is. The picture illustrates exactly what happens when a cat is declawed, and if people are offended by that, so be it. Education isn’t always fun and games, and the truth can be pretty ugly. The attitude the poster had reminded me of an article I read recently that I think illustrates quite well just how many people would rather wear blinders than to deal with reality. If anyone is interested in reading it here is the link:

http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/browse/view_article.gsp?c_id=2… rc_cat_id=6321&id_list=295240,308754,307571,284006,306605,302628,290681,284 0 47,286864,288367 I just read it, and I have tears in my eyes.  Every word is true.

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Thanks for the link to the site, Megan. I agree with you. It is thoroughly depressing and it really sickens me about how people say *oh how terrible* and then do nothing about helping because *it’s not their problem*. A case in point was at my vet surgery this morning. I had gone to get Tiger checked over, and a lady came in with a cat that had been hit by a car. The vet, as they do, rushed to give aid and asked the lady for her contact details so they could treat it. She turned around and said *I’m not giving them, it’s not my cat, and it’s not my problem*. Malcolm informed me that he *knows* the cat belongs to the lady who brought it in, but he can’t prove it – after all, tabbies with white bib and four white paws all *look the same*. I asked Malcolm (vet) what would happen to the stray… his reply, *Oh I’ll patch it up and find a new home somewhere via one of the rescue groups..* Fortunately, that lady had enough sense to at least take the cat to the vet, and she has gone home feeling like she has done a good deed for the day because *it’s not her problem*. Sorry about the vent, but that woman *really* ticked me off, and that article was just *so* true. Helen M

I read with interest the thread about declaw sites, and found it very sad that someone was more worried about offending people with a picture of a freshly declawed cat than thinking about how offensive the procedure itself is. The picture illustrates exactly what happens when a cat is declawed, and if people are offended by that, so be it. Education isn’t always fun and games, and the truth can be pretty ugly. The attitude the poster had reminded me of an article I read recently that I think illustrates quite well just how many people would rather wear blinders than to deal with reality. If anyone is interested in reading it here is the link:

http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/browse/view_article.gsp?c_id=2… rc_cat_id=6321&id_list=295240,308754,307571,284006,306605,302628,290681,284 0 47,286864,288367 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Good wishes and ahoming beacon to the little black cat. And a big hug and a thankyou to you for all the work you do, too. Yowie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A case in point was at my vet surgery this morning. I had gone to get Tiger checked over, and a lady came in with a cat that had been hit by a car. The vet, as they do, rushed to give aid and asked the lady for her contact details so they could treat it. She turned around and said *I’m not giving them, it’s not my cat, and it’s not my problem*. Malcolm informed me that he *knows* the cat belongs to the lady who brought it in, but he can’t prove it – after all, tabbies with white bib and four white paws all *look the same*. I asked Malcolm (vet) what would happen to the stray… his reply, *Oh I’ll patch it up and find a new home somewhere via one of the rescue groups..* Fortunately, that lady had enough sense to at least take the cat to the vet, and she has gone home feeling like she has done a good deed for the day because *it’s not her problem*. Sorry about the vent, but that woman *really* ticked me off, and that article was just *so* true. Helen M Helen, have a good vent, that’s what we’re here for. At least the cat is safe now, and if you know who the useless ex-owner is, you can make sure that she doesn’t get any healthy cats from a rescue group. It’s a shame the cat wasn’t chipped, then the vet could prove it belonged to the woman. We had a terrible day yesterday, and I couldn’t sleep a wink last night. First we heard that a cat that we’d homed a fortnight ago had had convulsions on Saturday morning and died at the vets on Saturday afternoon (the vet thinks liver failure). The next disaster was revealed when we were following up on the neutering of two kittens that went to a supposedly indoor home last summer. One had been killed on the drive when the owner accidentally backed over it, and the moron had rehomed the other one to another charity when he injured its leg. We are furious, especially as we know the woman who runs the other charity, and she didn’t check to see if the kitten was chipped. We still don’t know if the kitten has been neutered. Everything seemed fine on the homecheck, but clearly this guy was a professional liar. The third disaster was finding that another kitten homed last year to what we thought was a very good home had been abandoned for six weeks when his owner went abroad. She thought that leaving the shed open and arranging for a friend to drop by daily to feed the cat was acceptable. Finally, to cap it all, we homed a cat yesterday afternoon to a lovely woman, and she rang us last night to say that it had escaped already! I’ve just spent three hours touring her estate asking people to look out for the cat, and putting ads out. The middle two of the above are due to us making wrong calls on the suitability of the owners, although they did lie like politicians to us to get a kitten in the first place. The first and last are just bad luck. It’s just awful that they should all happen, or come to light, within a forty eight hour period. Rehoming is supposed to be the good bit of the job! Please, all of you, send out good thoughts  that our little black cat, homed yesterday, will be found. Jeanette remove nospam to email

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A case in point was at my vet surgery this morning. I had gone to get Tiger checked over, and a lady came in with a cat that had been hit by a car. The vet, as they do, rushed to give aid and asked the lady for her contact details so they could treat it. She turned around and said *I’m not giving them, it’s not my cat, and it’s not my problem*. Malcolm informed me that he *knows* the cat belongs to the lady who brought it in, but he can’t prove it – after all, tabbies with white bib and four white paws all *look the same*. I asked Malcolm (vet) what would happen to the stray… his reply, *Oh I’ll patch it up and find a new home somewhere via one of the rescue groups..* Fortunately, that lady had enough sense to at least take the cat to the vet, and she has gone home feeling like she has done a good deed for the day because *it’s not her problem*. Sorry about the vent, but that woman *really* ticked me off, and that article was just *so* true. Helen M

Helen, have a good vent, that’s what we’re here for. At least the cat is safe now, and if you know who the useless ex-owner is, you can make sure that she doesn’t get any healthy cats from a rescue group. It’s a shame the cat wasn’t chipped, then the vet could prove it belonged to the woman. We had a terrible day yesterday, and I couldn’t sleep a wink last night. First we heard that a cat that we’d homed a fortnight ago had had convulsions on Saturday morning and died at the vets on Saturday afternoon (the vet thinks liver failure). The next disaster was revealed when we were following up on the neutering of two kittens that went to a supposedly indoor home last summer. One had been killed on the drive when the owner accidentally backed over it, and the moron had rehomed the other one to another charity when he injured its leg. We are furious, especially as we know the woman who runs the other charity, and she didn’t check to see if the kitten was chipped. We still don’t know if the kitten has been neutered. Everything seemed fine on the homecheck, but clearly this guy was a professional liar. The third disaster was finding that another kitten homed last year to what we thought was a very good home had been abandoned for six weeks when his owner went abroad. She thought that leaving the shed open and arranging for a friend to drop by daily to feed the cat was acceptable. Finally, to cap it all, we homed a cat yesterday afternoon to a lovely woman, and she rang us last night to say that it had escaped already! I’ve just spent three hours touring her estate asking people to look out for the cat, and putting ads out. The middle two of the above are due to us making wrong calls on the suitability of the owners, although they did lie like politicians to us to get a kitten in the first place. The first and last are just bad luck. It’s just awful that they should all happen, or come to light, within a forty eight hour period. Rehoming is supposed to be the good bit of the job! Please, all of you, send out good thoughts  that our little black cat, homed yesterday, will be found. Jeanette remove nospam to email

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Question:

Certainly, just so your customers don’t get offended by getting cookie cutter feedback from you, make sure  you make every one different, and personalized. <G Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

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Wow, that’s amazing! How do you get all the descriptions written Scott? Charley

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

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Godspeed   vrrrrrrroooooooommmmmmmmmm!!!! — Laurie "Only the mediocre are always at their best."

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

Response:

I have a barcode driven database that i wrote that contains a listing of all the videos that I listed in the past (I knew those end of auction instructions would come in handy one day.. been savin them for like a year now), they are all matched up with UPC’s which when selected, gets merged with the html and dumped into outlook then xfered over to ebay. tbc video scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, that’s amazing! How do you get all the descriptions written Scott? Charley Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

Response:

OK, sounds like quite a system you have going.  Much continued success to you Scott. Charley

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a barcode driven database that i wrote that contains a listing of all the videos that I listed in the past (I knew those end of auction instructions would come in handy one day.. been savin them for like a year now), they are all matched up with UPC’s which when selected, gets merged with the html and dumped into outlook then xfered over to ebay. tbc video scott Wow, that’s amazing! How do you get all the descriptions written Scott? Charley Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

Response:

Its hard to tell the number of employees because we also do wholesale which is not related to ebay… Packaging/Shipping: 2 employees, about 60 hours a week (1 full, one part) Shelf Organization/Picking of orders 1 employee, about 40 hours a week Email: 1 Employee 20-30 hours (dedicates rest to listing) Listing: 1 Employee (45 hours week) (plus leftover hours from Email and Tech) Purchasing / Automation 1 Employee 30-35 hours a week (dedicates rest to listing) Accounting 1 Employee 30 hours a week We are currently dedicating 7 employees to ebay, with the manpower we have now, and the automation programs, I estimate we can suppot approx 4,500-5,500 items a week,, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott Scott,        I just have to ask, how many employees do you have?    How much space are you using to run your operation?    I’m at a point where I would like to start hiring some part time workers, but the thought is so scarry (actually I’ve been at this point since March and haven’t done anything about it yet).     I would think for you it is a matter of amount of workers and space (so they’re not falling over each other). Those have become my biggest problems/concerns in the last year. Paul Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

Scott,        I just have to ask, how many employees do you have?    How much space are you using to run your operation?    I’m at a point where I would like to start hiring some part time workers, but the thought is so scarry (actually I’ve been at this point since March and haven’t done anything about it yet).     I would think for you it is a matter of amount of workers and space (so they’re not falling over each other). Those have become my biggest problems/concerns in the last year. Paul Before you buy.

Response:

Dang! I can’t even get my clock settings right! Angie — ‘Tis better to have loved a sloth than to have never loved at all." (Win Ben Stein’s Money, 2000)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a barcode driven database that i wrote that contains a listing of all the videos that I listed in the past (I knew those end of auction instructions would come in handy one day.. been savin them for like a year now), they are all matched up with UPC’s which when selected, gets merged with the html and dumped into outlook then xfered over to ebay. tbc video scott Wow, that’s amazing! How do you get all the descriptions written Scott? Charley Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

Response:

Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

Response:

SWEEET! — David Saad Muzo Mine Emerald Co. Click here to search our auctions: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/davesaad/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well as you all know, im a big fan of automated programs… well today we kicked off my latest and greatest…Our own home-grown bulk lister… Every week we will increase our load by an additional 1,000 auctions, and stop at 5,000 per week. I think we are ready to support this load…. But I am taking bets Any last minute advice anyone can on management of this quantity i will greatly appreciate… papier11 tbc video scott

Response:

Question:

I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried.  It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

A composite glider in the UK took a lightning strike in April 1999 that blew the craft apart in midair. Both pilots survived, wearing chutes. The report is very interesting. The glider construction is very similar to many composite planes – foam core with glass over it, and control system primarily tubes. In the strike, the intense magnetic field of the current caused the aileron link rods to be sucked flat into ribbons. See the whole report at http://www.open.gov.uk/aaib/dec99htm/bga3705.htm In general, composites don’t like lightning. Don’t go near it. David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried.  It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

Don’t go near lightning or the conditions that cause it in a fiberglass airplane. The two don’t mix. Stoddard Hamilton did extensive research under a NASA grant on this subject an I’m sure if you contact NASA they will give you the results. The lightning protected Glasair III was one of the results of the project. It had a copper mesh embedded in laminates and was offered as a kit option. Stoddard didn’t sell even one!!! It added 10k to the price. I understand the Lancair Columbia and the Cirrus both have metal mesh in the laminates. Bruce Glasair III – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried.  It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FLYING magazine had a great write up about lightning strikes in their March ‘99 issue. Lightning Technologies, a large lightning generating testing facility, has intentially struck aircraft such as the Glasair III, Beechcraft Starship and Lancair Columbia 300. They blasted these full size aircraft with 100,000 volts/200,000 amperes strikes. About 10 times that of *normal* lightning. I’m certain that Lightning Technologies’ testing comes close to emulating natural lightning, but according to Britannica, natural lightning is up to the order of 100,000,000V and 20,000A (these are cloud-to-ground strikes; perhaps cloud-to-flying-aircraft is different).  100,000V/200,000A is ten times the current but at a thousand times less voltage.  There are probably 6 qualified engineers in the world who could give a good accounting of the "potential" differences.  :-) Russell Kent

The voltages required for lightning to arc across the air is proportional to the distance.  For example, if Lightning Technologies has a test room about 10 feet high and is generating a voltage from cieling to floor, it would take 100 times less voltage than would be required for a cloud to ground strike from a cloud at 1000 feet AGL.  This explains a significant portion of the voltage difference. Greg Gritton

Response:

[...snip...] The explosive strike to a glider in the UK (Flying, Sept (?), 2000) was studied in great depth, and that accident report suggests that even much higher amps are needed to lab-simulate (emphasis on this word) the destructive effects of natural strikes.  IOW, "10 times normal lightning" sounds like press release oversimplification of the actual science, and should not imply a 10x safety margin for average 20kA strikes, over even 2x on 100kA monsters. Fred F.

For anybody interested, the actual accident report for the glider lightning strike is available at   http://www.open.gov.uk/aaib/dec99htm/bga3705.htm The report also has links to images that show the damage caused to the various bits and pieces of the glider. — ss

Response:

I wasa passenger on a 777 going into Chicago about 2 years ago and we were struck by lightning.  There was a ping sound off the nose, a loud boom, and then a bright flash in the windows.  Pretty exciting stuff and the lights inside didn’t even flicker.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See http://lightning.pwr.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp/lrg/temp/plane.html for shots of a lightning strike on a 747 during takeoff from Osaka airport. Pretty impressive. The page is a slow loader, as all frames must be transferred. From http://news.airwise.com/stories/99/10/939285371.html A Japan Airlines (JAL) jet bound for Brisbane, Australia, was forced to return after an engine on the left wing was struck by lightning October 6. None of the 437 passengers and crew on board the Boeing 747 were injured, said JAL spokesman Takeshi Suzuki. The plane returned safely to Kansai International Airport at 11:35 p.m. Wednesday, about 90 minutes after takeoff, Suzuki said. The Kansai airport serves the major western Japanese city of Osaka and is located 250 miles west of Tokyo. David FLYING magazine had a great write up about lightning strikes in their March ‘99 issue. Lightning Technologies, a large lightning generating testing facility, has intentially struck aircraft such as the Glasair III, Beechcraft Starship and Lancair Columbia 300. They blasted these full size aircraft with 100,000 volts/200,000 amperes strikes. About 10 times that of *normal* lightning. I’m certain that Lightning Technologies’ testing comes close to emulating natural lightning, but according to Britannica, natural lightning is up to the order of 100,000,000V and 20,000A (these are cloud-to-ground strikes; perhaps cloud-to-flying-aircraft is different).  100,000V/200,000A is ten times the current but at a thousand times less voltage.  There are probably 6 qualified engineers in the world who could give a good accounting of the "potential" differences.  :-) Russell Kent

Response:

Years ago I saw a Hawker which received a lightning strike on the tail.  It looked like some gigantic sewing machine had run down the entire length of the vertical stabalizer, then out the left horazontal and elevator melting the static wicks into balls of black goo. The pilot said he expected a lot more trouble than he had, he said it just jumbled some information in his flight director – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -See http://lightning.pwr.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp/lrg/temp/plane.html for shots of a lightning strike on a 747 during takeoff from Osaka airport. Pretty impressive. The page is a slow loader, as all frames must be transferred. From http://news.airwise.com/stories/99/10/939285371.html A Japan Airlines (JAL) jet bound for Brisbane, Australia, was forced to return after an engine on the left wing was struck by lightning October 6. None of the 437 passengers and crew on board the Boeing 747 were injured, said JAL spokesman Takeshi Suzuki. The plane returned safely to Kansai International Airport at 11:35 p.m. Wednesday, about 90 minutes after takeoff, Suzuki said. The Kansai airport serves the major western Japanese city of Osaka and is located 250 miles west of Tokyo. David FLYING magazine had a great write up about lightning strikes in their March ‘99 issue. Lightning Technologies, a large lightning generating testing facility, has intentially struck aircraft such as the Glasair III, Beechcraft Starship and Lancair Columbia 300. They blasted these full size aircraft with 100,000 volts/200,000 amperes strikes. About 10 times that of *normal* lightning. I’m certain that Lightning Technologies’ testing comes close to emulating natural lightning, but according to Britannica, natural lightning is up to the order of 100,000,000V and 20,000A (these are cloud-to-ground strikes; perhaps cloud-to-flying-aircraft is different).  100,000V/200,000A is ten times the current but at a thousand times less voltage.  There are probably 6 qualified engineers in the world who could give a good accounting of the "potential" differences.  :-) Russell Kent

marca(AT) techline (DOT) com (AT) = @   (DOT) = .

Response:

I’m not one of those 6 engrs; I’m just with the tour group <g.  But the destructive effect of lightning is in Joule heating (among others), and they measure strikes in part by using an "action integral."  The formula includes amps, time, and resistance (but not volts). Action integral is what FAA uses too in certification test requirements (AC 20-53A), which assumes 200kA in the action integral. The explosive strike to a glider in the UK (Flying, Sept (?), 2000) was studied in great depth, and that accident report suggests that even much higher amps are needed to lab-simulate (emphasis on this word) the destructive effects of natural strikes.  IOW, "10 times normal lightning" sounds like press release oversimplification of the actual science, and should not imply a 10x safety margin for average 20kA strikes, over even 2x on 100kA monsters. Fred F. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … They blasted these full size aircraft with 100,000 volts/200,000 amperes strikes. About 10 times that of *normal* lightning. I’m certain that Lightning Technologies’ testing comes close to emulating natural lightning, but according to Britannica, natural lightning is up to the order of 100,000,000V and 20,000A (these are cloud-to-ground strikes; perhaps cloud-to-flying-aircraft is different).  100,000V/200,000A is ten times the current but at a thousand times less voltage.  There are probably 6 qualified engineers in the world who could give a good accounting of the "potential" differences.  :-) Russell Kent

Response:

See http://lightning.pwr.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp/lrg/temp/plane.html for shots of a lightning strike on a 747 during takeoff from Osaka airport. Pretty impressive. The page is a slow loader, as all frames must be transferred. From http://news.airwise.com/stories/99/10/939285371.html A Japan Airlines (JAL) jet bound for Brisbane, Australia, was forced to return after an engine on the left wing was struck by lightning October 6. None of the 437 passengers and crew on board the Boeing 747 were injured, said JAL spokesman Takeshi Suzuki. The plane returned safely to Kansai International Airport at 11:35 p.m. Wednesday, about 90 minutes after takeoff, Suzuki said. The Kansai airport serves the major western Japanese city of Osaka and is located 250 miles west of Tokyo. David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FLYING magazine had a great write up about lightning strikes in their March ‘99 issue. Lightning Technologies, a large lightning generating testing facility, has intentially struck aircraft such as the Glasair III, Beechcraft Starship and Lancair Columbia 300. They blasted these full size aircraft with 100,000 volts/200,000 amperes strikes. About 10 times that of *normal* lightning. I’m certain that Lightning Technologies’ testing comes close to emulating natural lightning, but according to Britannica, natural lightning is up to the order of 100,000,000V and 20,000A (these are cloud-to-ground strikes; perhaps cloud-to-flying-aircraft is different).  100,000V/200,000A is ten times the current but at a thousand times less voltage.  There are probably 6 qualified engineers in the world who could give a good accounting of the "potential" differences.  :-) Russell Kent

Response:

FLYING magazine had a great write up about lightning strikes in their March ‘99 issue. Lightning Technologies, a large lightning generating testing facility, has intentially struck aircraft such as the Glasair III, Beechcraft Starship and Lancair Columbia 300. They blasted these full size aircraft with 100,000 volts/200,000 amperes strikes. About 10 times that of *normal* lightning.

I’m certain that Lightning Technologies’ testing comes close to emulating natural lightning, but according to Britannica, natural lightning is up to the order of 100,000,000V and 20,000A (these are cloud-to-ground strikes; perhaps cloud-to-flying-aircraft is different).  100,000V/200,000A is ten times the current but at a thousand times less voltage.  There are probably 6 qualified engineers in the world who could give a good accounting of the "potential" differences.  :-) Russell Kent

Response:

Just an observation, I wouldn’t mind reading the report if you happen to know where I could get a copy…

Plumer, J. A., Setzer, T. E., and Siddiqi, S., "Lightning protection technology for small general aviation composite material aircraft," SAE Paper 931241, 1 Jan 1993. Try www.SAE.org …did the thought of Gavinsky doing something deceitful strike a nerve.

Do you also imply that Lighting Technologies and Analytical Services (sponsoring co-authors) were deceitful? Dave ‘SBIR’ Hyde

Response:

FLYING magazine had a great write up about lightning strikes in their March ‘99 issue. Lightning Technologies, a large lightning generating testing facility, has intentially struck aircraft such as the Glasair III, Beechcraft Starship and Lancair Columbia 300. They blasted these full size aircraft with 100,000 volts/200,000 amperes strikes. About 10 times that of *normal* lightning. Its some good reading if you have access to the back issue. I also just found their website. http://www.lightningtech.com/intro.html It has a picture of the Glasair strike on it. Interesting stuff indeed! Cheers! Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried. It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

I believe that there was an article in Sport Aviation about the study several years ago. I don’t know if I still have that issue.  I’ll look and see.  I assume that Gavinsky is the person in charge of Glasair.  I know nothing of the company and its officers. I do admit to being impressed with its aircraft.  Meanness and spite with no evidence to back it always catches my attention. I was just wondering if I had it right. Gary Thomas

<snip   Have – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you read the report or did the thought of Gavinsky doing something deceitful strike a nerve. Fletcher Do you have proof of this or is it just an opinion?   If so is there any evidence the the study was cooked? If your answer to the above is "no" then maybe you should rethink the way you worded you post. Gary Thomas As it turns out with Stoddard Hamilton, I suppose a couple of people may have received a kit had they not wasted money on some govt. type research program.  The govt. has unlimited funds, Stoddard Hamilton didn’t.  Nasa may have paid for all of it or may have only paid for part.  In retrospect it may have been a ploy for a govt loan to keep Stoddard afloat for a few more months and Nasa didn’t even know it. Don’t go near lightning or the conditions that cause it in a fiberglass airplane. The two don’t mix. Stoddard Hamilton did extensive research under a NASA grant on this subject an I’m sure if you contact NASA they will give you the results. The lightning protected Glasair III was one of the results of the project. It had a copper mesh embedded in laminates and was offered as a kit option. Stoddard didn’t sell even one!!! It added 10k to the price. I understand the Lancair Columbia and the Cirrus both have metal mesh in the laminates. Bruce Glasair III I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried. It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

As it turns out with Stoddard Hamilton, I suppose a couple of people may have received a kit had they not wasted money on some govt. type research program.  The govt. has unlimited funds, Stoddard Hamilton didn’t.  Nasa may have paid for all of it or may have only paid for part.  In retrospect it may have been a ploy for a govt loan to keep Stoddard afloat for a few more months and Nasa didn’t even know it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t go near lightning or the conditions that cause it in a fiberglass airplane. The two don’t mix. Stoddard Hamilton did extensive research under a NASA grant on this subject an I’m sure if you contact NASA they will give you the results. The lightning protected Glasair III was one of the results of the project. It had a copper mesh embedded in laminates and was offered as a kit option. Stoddard didn’t sell even one!!! It added 10k to the price. I understand the Lancair Columbia and the Cirrus both have metal mesh in the laminates. Bruce Glasair III I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried. It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

Do you have proof of this or is it just an opinion?  Have you read the report associated with the study?  If so is there any evidence the the study was cooked? If your answer to the above is "no" then maybe you should rethink the way you worded you post. Gary Thomas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As it turns out with Stoddard Hamilton, I suppose a couple of people may have received a kit had they not wasted money on some govt. type research program.  The govt. has unlimited funds, Stoddard Hamilton didn’t.  Nasa may have paid for all of it or may have only paid for part.  In retrospect it may have been a ploy for a govt loan to keep Stoddard afloat for a few more months and Nasa didn’t even know it. Don’t go near lightning or the conditions that cause it in a fiberglass airplane. The two don’t mix. Stoddard Hamilton did extensive research under a NASA grant on this subject an I’m sure if you contact NASA they will give you the results. The lightning protected Glasair III was one of the results of the project. It had a copper mesh embedded in laminates and was offered as a kit option. Stoddard didn’t sell even one!!! It added 10k to the price. I understand the Lancair Columbia and the Cirrus both have metal mesh in the laminates. Bruce Glasair III I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried. It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

Do you have proof of this or is it just an opinion?

Just an opinion, don’t know if I believe it to be true just mere possibility. Have you read the report associated with the study?

No, nor have I read War and Peace but I know its about Russia. If so is there any evidence the the study was cooked?

I’m not a detective or a 60 minutes investigative reporter, so I don’t know. then maybe you should rethink the way you worded you post.

Why? Just an observation, I wouldn’t mind reading the report if you happen to know where I could get a copy or an address feel free to enlighten us.  Have you read the report or did the thought of Gavinsky doing something deceitful strike a nerve. Fletcher

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have proof of this or is it just an opinion?   If so is there any evidence the the study was cooked? If your answer to the above is "no" then maybe you should rethink the way you worded you post. Gary Thomas As it turns out with Stoddard Hamilton, I suppose a couple of people may have received a kit had they not wasted money on some govt. type research program.  The govt. has unlimited funds, Stoddard Hamilton didn’t.  Nasa may have paid for all of it or may have only paid for part.  In retrospect it may have been a ploy for a govt loan to keep Stoddard afloat for a few more months and Nasa didn’t even know it. Don’t go near lightning or the conditions that cause it in a fiberglass airplane. The two don’t mix. Stoddard Hamilton did extensive research under a NASA grant on this subject an I’m sure if you contact NASA they will give you the results. The lightning protected Glasair III was one of the results of the project. It had a copper mesh embedded in laminates and was offered as a kit option. Stoddard didn’t sell even one!!! It added 10k to the price. I understand the Lancair Columbia and the Cirrus both have metal mesh in the laminates. Bruce Glasair III I’m thinking about building a kit fiberglass aircraft but recently looked at one which took a direct lightning hit.  With no metal skin to protect the interior electronics, this airplanes entire electrical system was fried. It was hit while parked.  I would hate to take such a hit in the air. Have any of you taken lightning strikes in your fiberglass aircraft and what was the outcome? LP

Response:

Question:

We have a service designed specifically to assist charities based in the UK and I want to market to them, anyone have any suggestions on how this could best be achieved? I am not particularly interested in following "traditional" routes and anything innovative would be much appreciated. Many thanks to all who can help. To reply in private, please remove xx after paul

Response:

You might try a novel delivery approach to get their attention.  Ever seen Santa delivered in a shopping mall?  I used a puppet show and magician to deliver him. The kids loved it. Money is getting tighter and tighter for charities…I would think something humorous that they would enjoy might be effective.  E-mail animination is a thought…make whatever you do elicit a laugh or smile.  Most traditional business mailings are so serious… Denise C. Wildman, C.M.D. Research Scout www.researchscout.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have a service designed specifically to assist charities based in the UK and I want to market to them, anyone have any suggestions on how this could best be achieved? I am not particularly interested in following "traditional" routes and anything innovative would be much appreciated. Many thanks to all who can help. To reply in private, please remove xx after paul

Response:

We have a service designed specifically to assist charities based in the UK and I want to market to them, anyone have any suggestions on how this could best be achieved?

Hi Paul First, what type of service is it? Is it training, accounting, software, or what have you? Because every innovative marketing plan has to tested and tailored to fit the exact service you are offering. Regards Mark Metcalf —– Your Own Marketing Dept Looked After By Experts —– Mark Metcalf author "Your Own Virtual Marketing department" & "New Pressure Free Subliminal Selling Breakthrough" FEES: Nothing Up Front – Just A Small% of the Increased Sales. FREE Reports, FREE Newsletters. FREE Info & Offers.

Response:

Hello Paul, what is wrong with the traditional methods ? 1.    get the adresses 2.    send a letter and some informations about your services. 3.    phone some days later, ask them, if they are interested in your services or what service they would need. 4.    Visit them. Thats a lot of hard  work. But  I don=B4t think,  that there is a easy way, to build a good relationship with a potential customer.  They must see you face to face and trust you. If you try to use other methods, like the internet, you must find out at first, if your potential customers use it. But you can do that parallel of course. Then I would produce a homepage and form a discussion group, so that you come into contact with interested people. Kind regards Claus Paul Jorgensen schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have a service designed specifically to assist charities based in the UK and I want to market to them, anyone have any suggestions on how this could best be achieved? I am not particularly interested in following "traditional" routes and anything innovative would be much appreciated. Many thanks to all who can help. To reply in private, please remove xx after paul

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Question:

Study: Diet Pill Redux OK for Heart .c The Associated Press  By DANIEL Q. HANEY AP Medical Editor ATLANTA (AP) – A large study released Tuesday found no sign that brief use of the diet pill Redux caused dangerously leaky heart valves, as many feared when the medicine was withdrawn from the market last September. The study, conducted at Georgetown University, appears to largely exonerate Redux, a prescription appetite suppressant. It found the medicine is no more likely than sugar pills to seriously harm the heart during the two or three months that most people took it. However, it did not rule out the possibility that taking Redux for many months – as the drug was intended to be used – could have harmed people. It also did not examine whether the chemically similar phen-fen, which was pulled from drugstores at the same time as Redux, is bad for the heart valves. “These results should be reassuring for the majority of patients who have been on Redux,” said Dr. Neil J. Weissman, who directed the study. His study is the first large, carefully controlled experiment to see whether Redux truly caused the damage that many suspected. Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, which makes Redux and fenfluramine – the fen of phen-fen – pulled both drugs off the market at the request of the Food and Drug Administration. The government acted after a Mayo Clinic team reported 24 cases of heart valve problems among people taking phen-fen. Government agencies eventually gathered several hundred cases of damaged heart valves among people taking phen-fen and Redux. Such reports cannot prove that the diet pills actually caused the valve damage. However, the FDA estimated that one-third of people taking the diet pills could have suffered significant heart valve damage as a result. Dr. Janet Woodcock of the FDA said that while the study “is reassuring for people who took it for a short period of time,” the study does not settle the question of what happened to those who used it longer. She said the FDA believes this is where most of the harm occurred. Dr. Curt Furberg of Wake Forest University, a member of an expert panel assembled by Wyeth-Ayerst to help design studies of the drugs’ effects, said the Georgetown study “meets the highest scientific standards we have.” The results were presented at a meeting of the American College of Cardiology. The study involved 1,072 overweight men and women who had been involved in testing of a new, sustained-release form of Redux. They were randomly assigned to take regular Redux, the new form of Redux or dummy pills. Neither the doctors nor the patients knew which they were getting. The study was stopped when Redux was taken off the market. The patients were then give echocardiograms to look at their heart valves. The doctors who read their scans did not know which treatment they had received. The results showed no significant difference in the three groups in the kind of serious valve damage that the FDA had warned of in Redux patients. The study found mild or worse leaking of the aortic valve in 5 percent of patients on Redux, 5.8 percent on sustained-released Redux and 3.6 percent on placebos. It found moderate or greater mitral valve leaking in 1.7 percent on Redux, 1.8 percent on sustained-release Redux and 1.2 percent on placebos. The small differences were not considered statistically meaningful. The study showed – as heart experts already know – that trivial valve leaking can be found with sophisticated diagnostic machines in almost everyone, even though this was somewhat more common among those getting Redux. It found 50 percent of Redux users and 48 percent on placebo had slight valve leakage. The patients took the drug for an average of 77 days, which is about the same as three-quarters of Redux patients used the medicine. The findings are unlikely to quell all of the furor over Redux. “This leaves the false impression that these drugs are safe,” said Guerry Thornton, an Atlanta attorney who has filed lawsuits for women who used them. Dr. Richard Bowen of Naples, Fla., who sent 122 cases of apparent valve damage to the FDA, said that while new data are reassuring to those who used the drug briefly, he worries that valve problems may be more common among those who took the drug longer. Dr. Philip J. de Vane of Wyeth-Ayerst said the company has decided not to reintroduce Redux. “Given the legal environment, it doesn’t make any sense,” he said. Hundreds of lawsuits have been filed against the company by people who took Redux or phen-fen. Since 1995, 14 million prescriptions have been written for fenfluramine or Redux, most of them for women. The government estimates between 1 million and 5 million Americans have taken the drugs. AP-NY-03-31-98 1923EST

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"Dr. Philip J. de Vane of Wyeth-Ayerst said the company has decided not to reintroduce Redux. “Given the legal environment, it doesn’t make any sense,” Associated Press, By DANIEL Q. HANEY, AP Medical Editor ATLANTA (AP) This statement is of concern.  Does this mean that W-A will never reintroduce Redux, or just not for now?  It really burns my butt that I am denied a potentially life-saving drug because the pharmaceutical company is afraid of lawsuits.  I suppose that their thinking is that the cost of lawsuits still exceeds the money to be made from selling the med.  GGRRRRR! I also wonder how they are going to proceed with their studies.  This current information is based on a study begun before fen was pulled, and was discontinued (the test subjects were given no more meds) after the re-call. Naturally, it would be unethical to continue to feed test subjects a medication with possibly life threatening side effects.  But what will they do now?  Animal testing;  and will successful results with animals be enough to convince the W-A attorneys that reintroducing the drug will be cost effective? There seems to be no information as to where they’ll go from here… Just some thoughts. Cindy B.

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It also did not examine whether the chemically similar phen-fen, which was pulled from drugstores at the same time as Redux, is bad for the heart valves. Nothing called "phen-fen" was pulled from the market.  Fenfluramine was pulled from the market, as was dexfenfluramine (Redux). Phentermine is still on the market.

The fact that the pop-press has the fact’s wrong is nothing new!  Let’s be sure that the information we are reading is from a "primary source", and *not* the AP, or "Time" Magazine, etc.(secondary source(s)) before we accept it as fact;  or in this case, before we conclude that an entire study is suspect (because some uninformed editor screwed up). Cindy B.

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Because of the way that my post was quoted, I want to clarify that I did not say that "phen-fen" was pulled from the market". This was written by Daniel Q. Haney –  The Associated Press Medical Editor. Malinda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, it did not rule out the possibility that taking Redux for many months – as the drug was intended to be used – could have harmed people. It also did not examine whether the chemically similar phen-fen, which was pulled from drugstores at the same time as Redux, is bad for the heart valves. Nothing called "phen-fen" was pulled from the market.  Fenfluramine was pulled from the market, as was dexfenfluramine (Redux). Phentermine is still on the market.

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However, it did not rule out the possibility that taking Redux for many months – as the drug was intended to be used – could have harmed people. It also did not examine whether the chemically similar phen-fen, which was pulled from drugstores at the same time as Redux, is bad for the heart valves.

Nothing called "phen-fen" was pulled from the market.  Fenfluramine was pulled from the market, as was dexfenfluramine (Redux). Phentermine is still on the market. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

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Yes, I know, Jet– it should be available to everyone because we all have the right to do what we wish with our own bodies. But I still feel some need to protect stupid & crazy people from themselves Well, as you know, I think anyone should be able to take anything they like, as long as they are told the truth about it. Who’s to say that a person who wants to lose 10 lbs and uses the drug is stupid? What if it means the difference between being a model or a drone in a typing pool? What if they just want to do it?

Sorry, but I’m just preserving my own rights. *I* believe that is was rampant overuse by borderline clinics that drove the FDA to pull it– not a serious health risk. Rampant borderline clinics are scary– they were scary when they were doing liquid diets & they were scary when they started dolling out prescription drugs. They are in the business of MAKING MONEY, and whatever it takes to make people lose weight is fair game. This is how it goes in my town (I work in advertising with a newspaper– I deal with these people a lot) an entrepreneur opens a "fitness" center, something goes wrong– lawsuit, finances, products pulled, the business closes or declares bankruptcy & the entrepreneur is often forbidden to run this same sort of business for a set amount of time. BUT 3 months later the same business re-opens, under a different name, with the entrepreneur’s spouse or parents or cousin listed as owner, and a NEW miracle program. Some around here were actually promoting Herbal Phen/Fen. The business owner is held responsible & is inconvienced a bit. The medical staff goes on to another clinic. Regular physicians have a lot more to lose… they damage the health of a patient using a questionable diet medication, and they potentially lose their arthritis patients, their heart patients, their gynecological patients, or whatever– and maybe their right to practice medicine at all. So when a regular physician prescribes a supposedly risky drug, *I* believe that the doctor believes the benefits outweight the risks. I don’t believe that the storefront-clinics consider the risks at all. And I think the drugs were pulled to stop them. So I lose my right to a potentially life-saving drug because too many typing drones thought they could be models– whatever the cost & risk. And basically they fucked it up for everyone– not only do they not get the drug to magically transform their sorry little lives, I also lose the drug that was maybe saving mine. It’s not even a matter of my rights versus their rights anymore. And NO ONE can tell me that if it had been reserved for only the morbidly obese that this would have happened. Everyone EXPECTS us to have damaged hearts. And this sort of damage is generally SO benign, weighed against the weight loss & the damage we’ve already done to our bodies– it would have been a warning at the bottom of the list in teeny tiny print. MSNBC did a story about Redux this morning– featuring the story about a moderately obese who woman died from an enlarged heart after 38 days on Redux. My brother died unexpectedly of an enlarged heart years before anyone ever heard of these drugs. They told us it could be anything from years of undetected high blood pressure or high cholesterol to a virus he had had as a child. But this woman had Redux written on her death certificate. They went on the give some numbers (2million on Redux, 6million on Redux or Phen/Fen, 500 total lawsuits) and mentioned the new study– didn’t give any numbers or facts about it, but made a BIG deal about the fact it had been done by the company who made Redux. BTW- 30% of just the Redux prescriptions would be 600,000 lawsuits– 500 is under .03%– if they are all legit. And that’s not accounting for the fen users. Even watching legitimate, respected news stories & taking their numbers as hard facts, the risks are just not that great. That’s why I think the FDA was after the diet clinics… the drugs were making them too successful and this made everyone very nervous. And the clinics served the Wannabe Models– cause real doctors wouldn’t prescribe for them– from the beginning the drug companies warned there were risks that made the drug unwarranted for the slighly overweight. But people ought to have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. And now NO ONE has the right to take Redux or Fenfluramine. Good job. – Marya – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -J — Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. Computers are from Hell. -Byte Magazine

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Sorry, but I’m just preserving my own rights.

Rather selfish if you ask me. You don’t give a damn about others as long as you can have what you want. Well, as long as you are willing to admit you are being selfish. *I* believe that is was rampant overuse by borderline clinics that drove the FDA to pull it– not a serious health risk.

The FDA didn’t pull it…and it is the leagal climte that prevents it’s return. It was likely the same thing that caused it to be pulled. It’s not even a matter of my rights versus their rights anymore. And NO ONE can tell me that if it had been reserved for only the morbidly obese that this would have happened.

Yeah, but I would not be living the life I am living now if it had been. They went on the give some numbers (2million on Redux, 6million on Redux or Phen/Fen, 500 total lawsuits)

No wonder the lawyers are trolling for people in newsgroups. I bet 300 of those people have never even taken either drug. And the clinics served the Wannabe Models– cause real doctors wouldn’t prescribe for them– from the beginning the drug companies warned there were risks that made the drug unwarranted for the slighly overweight. But people ought to have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. And now NO ONE has the right to take Redux or Fenfluramine. Good job.

But we were NOT given the right to put what we wanted to into our bodies. We had to get permission from another person. I am glad I was allowed to take it, even though I am sure I would not have met your definition of morbidly obese. I wish it were OTC, in fact I think all drugs should be. But I think you are angry at the wrong people. It is the greedy lawyers, their greedy clients, and weight morlaists who are the bad guys in this case. J — Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. Computers are from Hell. -Byte Magazine

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Sorry, but I’m just preserving my own rights. *I* believe that is was rampant overuse by borderline clinics that drove the FDA to pull it– not a serious health risk.

And do you seriously believe that Wyeth-Ayerst would just sit back and let that happen, especially along with all the lawsuits that are rolling in? No way. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

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Hi Cindy, "Dr. Philip J. de Vane of Wyeth-Ayerst said the company has decided not to reintroduce Redux. “Given the legal environment, it doesn’t make any sense,” Associated Press, By DANIEL Q. HANEY, AP Medical Editor ATLANTA (AP) This statement is of concern.  Does this mean that W-A will never reintroduce Redux, or just not for now?  It really burns my butt that I am denied a potentially life-saving drug because the pharmaceutical company is afraid of lawsuits.  I suppose that their thinking is that the cost of lawsuits still exceeds the money to be made from selling the med.  GGRRRRR!

My guess that this is a "forever" decision. I put up a page about the Redux study on the OMR site (You’ll see a banner that says Redux: no heart valve damage with short term use). There’s a press release with my thoughts on the subject. I also wonder how they are going to proceed with their studies.  This current information is based on a study begun before fen was pulled, and was discontinued (the test subjects were given no more meds) after the re-call.

They are all retrospective studies. In other words, after the fact. I don’t know for sure how W-A selected the patients, but my guess is that they’d go to large university programs and clinical trials where the conditions were more controlled. That way they would know with more certainty what dosages the patients were taking, and compliance is usually better in those types of programs. Those patients should be age, sex and weight matched with controls who had never taken anorectic medications and echoed. Like in the Khan study, physicians reading the echos should not know which patients took medication and which ones didn’t. Then the echos are evaluated, and matched to the proper patient. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

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Hi Cindy B. ~

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Been there. Done that. Circumstances slightly different. Just as dumb. :{)Jim It’s an awesume responsibility being stupid!

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By popular demand, we again drop in on the now famous, low time pilot. The last time we saw him, he had just evaded yet another crash into the darkness due to a lack of fuel system awareness. Some time has passed and he has been flying his AA-1 most vigorously, racking up over 100 hrs in it in just six months. Having about 200 hrs total time now, with over half of it in this airplane, he has entered the "invicible stage" in his piloting career. That’s the one where he is competant enough to fly himself into many a situation that he doesn’t have the wisdom or experience yet to fly himself back out of. The following is a brief accounting of one of those situations. On a Sunday flight out to the ocean beaches, "Low Time" and his trusty co-pilot "Half Pint", find themselves enjoying an unseasonably warm and sunny day in the middle of what would normally be a wet and dreary Pacific Northwest winter. They had departed with less than full fuel, and the plan was to fill up on the way back from the coast, in Astoria. Though they had never actually refueled in Astoria before, they had landed there a few times, and found it to be a large multi-strip airport, which seemd to have plenty of facilities. During the pre-flight planning process, the "little black book" showed it to indeed have all sorts of fuel available, so it was included in the flight plan. The other small strips along the coast in that area didn’t have any fuel, hence the careful planning regarding a return refueling stop. All of the usual ground antics involving these two flyers took place that day, including the flying of kites at Seaside, a trip to the salt water taffy store, a visit to the future site of a home for a famous whale, some carousel rides, and much to much candy and ice-cream. As with all good things, the day was coming to an end and Low Time wanted to get back before he had to navigate the hills between the coast and the inland metropolitan area, in the dark. They piled into their trusty Yankee steed, and after letting out their seatbelts out a bit to get them buckled, they were ready to roll. After departing, it was just a 5 minute hop to the Astoria fuel pump. One of those deals where you takeoff, make a jog or two, and then get lined up for a straight in to the next runway. The sun was on it’s way down, and he was glad they had left when they did as it looked like a few clouds were starting to appear behind them. They made the landing, and headed over to what appeared to be the only gas pumps on the field. The place was a ghost town. Not a soul in site on the whole field. Nothing nowhere. As they neared the pumps, it became obvious that the place was closed and their hopes of refueling had been dashed. Shutting off the engine and coasting up to the locked pumps, Low Time pulled out the airport guide and the chart and started looking for another place to get some gas, while Half Pint started asking questions. "Are they closed", she asked? "Looks like it", he replied. "But where are we going to get gas?" "Not sure yet." "Do we have enough to get back home?" "Nope, we’re already pretty low and almost into our 30 minute reserve." "Do we have to stay here tonight?" "I have school in  the morning you know" she said, already sounding like somebody’s mother, even at the age of 6. Pondering the thought of staying in Astoria for the night, Low Time looked around a little and things were starting to look pretty grim. With weather closing in behind them, darkness on the way, and obligation of school in the morning, the first twinges of "get home itis" were starting to set in. The closest "real" airport on the chart was Hoquium. It was directly to the north and although they would be landing without the required 30 minutes of reserve fuel on board, they would be able to make it OK, and skies were clear in that direction. If they did go that way though, and there was no fuel there either, they would have shot their only chance, and would have to stay there for the night for sure, because there is just nothing else around there. Thoughts of trying to find a place to stay for the night in Hoquium were pretty dismal, and just about as grim as staying right where they were, in Astoria. Besides that, they wanted to go to the east to get back home. What did lie to the east? Some hills to get over, and a bunch of little airstrips that also have no fuel, or at least no fuel on a Sunday evening. There was Elma. "We could make that", he thought. But then visions of that little run down airport with a stinky but good little cafe, and a fuel pump that usually had a sign that said "out of service" hanging on it came to mind, and crushed his hopes of getting anything there, except a cold while sleeping in the plane. He started to look around in the plane to see what the blanket situation was like, and it was grim as well. It was going to get plenty cold that night, and since they had planned to be back before dark, they hadn’t really come prepared for camping out in the airplane. [they should have just parked it at this point, and called for a cab, gone to whatever hotel there was - even with cockroaches - and spent the night there on Mr. Visa] What else was to the east? Well, way out there, and pretty close to the flight path we would take to get home anyway, there is always Olympia. A pretty good size "real" airport that even has a tower, and two different FBO’s with fuel, with at least one of those being open late enough to have refueled in the dark there before. "Can we make it", he thought? Getting out the straight edge, the POH, and the calculator, he went to work trying to calculate their probable demise. "Let’s see." "To take the straight line we gotta climb pretty good initially to get over the first set of hills." "Then we can hold that altitude all the way to here, at which point we can make a 500 fpm decent to here, and from there get lined up for a glide to a landing if we had to". Does it sound like it would be too close? Why chance it? What was it that was so bad about staying there for the night? So what about the little one missing a day of school. And why would anyone want to risk not only their own life, but their whole family’s life as well? Is "get home itis" that powerful? He had read about "get home itis" before in the various flying magazines and been warned by his primary instructor about it, but he always thought "how absurd, that would never happen to me". The other factor working here was the fact that he really thought they could make it to the destination airport. He had calculated it very carefully, and confirmed the calculations with a "does this seem right" angle, based on quite a bit of recent flying experience in this same airplane. He knew the airplane pretty well, and had used it mostly for cross country flights of full tank leg distances, and he knew pretty much exactly what it would take to make the hop to Olympia. The biggest unknowm was; "exactly how much fuel do I have onboard?" [There is a reason for the 30 and 45 minute reserve rules. They are there so that you never have to know to the drop how much fuel you have. They give you a margin of error. A much needed one in this case.] He knew that when he left he was slightly under full, but how much under? He pulled out his log book and had a look at it. It showed about 30 minutes of flight from the point where he filled up, to the point where he landed and where they had left from initially that day. Then he calculated where they had gone that day and the flight times, and then checked all that against what the fuel sight tubes actually said. It all seemd to jive about down to the penny… which is too close when it comes to fuel and flying over rough terrain. He had made up his mind, and they were going to give it a shot. He took out a pen and circled all of the little private fields along the flight path, just in case. He extended VOR lines to them so he could use that to better identify them as he flew. He double checked his power settings chart to figure out what rpm was going to give him the best gas milage. He fired it up, and off they went. [What... are we going into battle here or something? Do you have to save the world tonight? Are we taking the President to the nuclear fall out shelter before the bombs hit? What's the big godamn emergency? Stop, turn back, get out the Visa card and spend the night on the ocean coast!] They departed with the flat angle climbout one would use in a race. Aiming the angle with just enough climb to clear the first set of hills. They were already out over water, the mouth of the Columbia River, and visions of other "emergency situations" in the past were entering the pilots mind. He was already using a somewhat reduced power setting to conserve a little even while climbing, and the little bird, being lightly loaded, was performing well. Half Pint, in all of her worldly wisdom, was monitioring the fuel sight tubes and barking out the fuel status report about every 10 seconds it seemed, while Low Time held a dead straight course, monitored their position on the chart and identified the small "farm airfields" as they went. They had cleared the first set of hills, and had leveled off while going to their reduced power "maximum range" cruise setting. At that point he switched tanks to make sure they were both working like they were when they departed, and then switched to the lowest tank, with the plan being to run it all the way dry. Half Pint was watching intently as her’s was the lower tank. Low Time looked over and said, "we’ll have to run your tank dry, then switch over to mine". She got a scared look on her face giving the impression that maybe if "her tank" went dry, her half of the airplane would fall down or something. Low Time reassured her that "everything would be fime", but nobody in the plane that night really believed a word of it. As the engine sputtered and tried to quit, he hit the boost pump and … read more »

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I want to explore this thread from another angle. Will this "error" ever show up in their accounting system somewhere?. Are businesses like HD setup such that they can  trace it back to the cashier and even the customer who bought it? Bijan

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My spouse works retail. When there’s a loss, try and quess who they go to? Guess who gets their asses chewed out? Guess who gets fired? When you’re stealing, you’re probably taking the money from someone who makes minimum wage. For those of you who gloat over "mistakes", I hope that one day it comes around to you.  Don’t fear, they’ll rationalize just like you. But, to tell you the truth, I sure wish to God this thread would die. I feel guilty contributing. (wood)Chip

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