Question:

I sent the nuns a blistering mail about their lack of compassion.  I told them that their decision about the cats is now known all over the world via the internet and that they needed to reverse it otherwise I might think it proper to alert the BBC to it. We do not like this sort of thing here in England.  The BBC might well be interested in this, and if they are not, well, the nuns will be afraid that they will now. What hypocrisy they show. Tweed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Email has been sent – with the comment : Why????  Are you that cold-hearted????  You (and the child-molesters) will not go to heaven! Hope this gets their attention.  Also that it’s just more bad press for the catholic church (just what it needs, eh?) I can certainly do my bit about this if I can get the mail addresses. It is not out of the question that I phone them. Tweed CONTACT INFORMATION DOMINICAN NUNS Corpus Christi Monastery 1230 Lafayette Avenue Bronx, NY  10474-5399 Phone: 718-328-6996 (Fax) -1974 Maybe some litterbox offerings would be in order?? Helen M — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t normally put this sort of stuff up at RPCA, but to to say I was appalled is an understatement. I thought that the Catholic Church showed compassion to all living creatures. Please help. Helen M I am shocked. Maybe it has something to do with the Dominicans– after all, they were known as the "Dogs of the Lord." (Domini-Canes) Seriously, I will certainly give these sisters a piece of my mind. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

How utterly disgusting.   Confirms some of my convictions!!! Bev — Dogs may shed, but cats shred.

Response:

Perhaps they ought to be reminded of one of Catholicism’s most famous saints: "Not to hurt our humble brethren (the animals) is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission–to be of service to them whenever they require it… If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."  - St. Francis of Assisi Or perhaps Gandhi might be able to help: "you can judge a society by the way it treats its animals." Yowie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t normally put this sort of stuff up at RPCA, but to to say I was appalled is an understatement. I thought that the Catholic Church showed compassion to all living creatures. Please help. Helen M For immediate release Contact: Neighborhood Cats, Inc. 212-662-5761 What Happened to the "Cat" in Catholic? (June 7, 2005) Newly elected Pope Benedict XVI’s well-known love of stray cats apparently is not shared by the Dominican Nuns of the Corpus Christi Monastery in the Bronx, New York. The Mother Superior has ordered the removal of seven feral cats who are almost all neutered, rabies vaccinated and have lived on the monastery’s five acres for the past 8 years. In a decision backed by the Archdiocese of NY, the plan is to first try to force the cats to leave by withholding all food and starving them. Then if they don’t go on their own, the resident Sisters will trap them and hand them over to the city. Shelter workers would be forced to euthanize the cats because they are feral and unadoptable and have nowhere else to be placed. The Vicar of the Religious Office for the Archdiocese, Sister Helen C., stated, "my compassion does not extend to these animals" and "they will be removed eventually, one way or another." "The plan is not only cruel for depriving these cats of their long-time home and causing their suffering and likely deaths, it is ineffective feral cat population control," said Bryan Kortis, Executive Director of Neighborhood Cats, a leading feral cat organization and a member of the Mayor’s Alliance for NYC’s Animals. "Maintaining neutered feral colonies, using a method known as Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR), is the only proven way to reduce feral numbers in the long term. Otherwise, new unneutered cats will simply replace the ones removed and the cycle of suffering and killing will go on indefinitely." Over the past eight years, at their own expense, volunteers have removed nine cats from the grounds of the monastery and placed them in homes. The cats too wild to be adopted were neutered and returned, stopping their reproduction, and were then fed by the nuns. Now, however, the nuns and the Archdiocese refuse to even meet with animal advocates to discuss the situation. To protest this heartless and ill-guided assault on the cats, please contact the Corpus Christi Monastery and the Archdiocese of NY by phone, email or fax (see below.) Let them know we expect more from our religious leaders than pointless cruelty towards innocent animals: Corpus Christi Monastery phone: 718-328-6996 fax: 718-328-1974 Archdiocese of NY phone: 212-371-1000 (ask for Public Relations or the Vicar of the Religious Office) fax: 212-826-6020 Act now! The cats have not been fed for five days and counting!! From www.nunsopbronx.homestead.com: "The DOMINICAN NUNS of Corpus Christi Monastery, Bronx, New York, are a monastic community dedicated to a life of prayer and penance for the preaching mission of the Dominican Order and for the salvation of souls." For more on Trap-Neuter-Return: www.neighborhoodcats.org — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps they ought to be reminded of one of Catholicism’s most famous saints: "Not to hurt our humble brethren (the animals) is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission–to be of service to them whenever they require it… If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."  - St. Francis of Assisi Or perhaps Gandhi might be able to help: "you can judge a society by the way it treats its animals." Yowie

While I’m not an authority, I’m pretty sure the Dominicans have little use for the Franciscans Jo

Response:

Note that I put 3 St. Francis prayers for animals at the end of the post. Maybe these sisters never heard of St. Francis?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps they ought to be reminded of one of Catholicism’s most famous saints: "Not to hurt our humble brethren (the animals) is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission–to be of service to them whenever they require it… If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."  - St. Francis of Assisi Or perhaps Gandhi might be able to help: "you can judge a society by the way it treats its animals." Yowie I don’t normally put this sort of stuff up at RPCA, but to to say I was appalled is an understatement. I thought that the Catholic Church showed compassion to all living creatures. Please help. Helen M For immediate release Contact: Neighborhood Cats, Inc. 212-662-5761 What Happened to the "Cat" in Catholic? (June 7, 2005) Newly elected Pope Benedict XVI’s well-known love of stray cats apparently is not shared by the Dominican Nuns of the Corpus Christi Monastery in the Bronx, New York. The Mother Superior has ordered the removal of seven feral cats who are almost all neutered, rabies vaccinated and have lived on the monastery’s five acres for the past 8 years. In a decision backed by the Archdiocese of NY, the plan is to first try to force the cats to leave by withholding all food and starving them. Then if they don’t go on their own, the resident Sisters will trap them and hand them over to the city. Shelter workers would be forced to euthanize the cats because they are feral and unadoptable and have nowhere else to be placed. The Vicar of the Religious Office for the Archdiocese, Sister Helen C., stated, "my compassion does not extend to these animals" and "they will be removed eventually, one way or another." "The plan is not only cruel for depriving these cats of their long-time home and causing their suffering and likely deaths, it is ineffective feral cat population control," said Bryan Kortis, Executive Director of Neighborhood Cats, a leading feral cat organization and a member of the Mayor’s Alliance for NYC’s Animals. "Maintaining neutered feral colonies, using a method known as Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR), is the only proven way to reduce feral numbers in the long term. Otherwise, new unneutered cats will simply replace the ones removed and the cycle of suffering and killing will go on indefinitely." Over the past eight years, at their own expense, volunteers have removed nine cats from the grounds of the monastery and placed them in homes. The cats too wild to be adopted were neutered and returned, stopping their reproduction, and were then fed by the nuns. Now, however, the nuns and the Archdiocese refuse to even meet with animal advocates to discuss the situation. To protest this heartless and ill-guided assault on the cats, please contact the Corpus Christi Monastery and the Archdiocese of NY by phone, email or fax (see below.) Let them know we expect more from our religious leaders than pointless cruelty towards innocent animals: Corpus Christi Monastery phone: 718-328-6996 fax: 718-328-1974 Archdiocese of NY phone: 212-371-1000 (ask for Public Relations or the Vicar of the Religious Office) fax: 212-826-6020 Act now! The cats have not been fed for five days and counting!! From www.nunsopbronx.homestead.com: "The DOMINICAN NUNS of Corpus Christi Monastery, Bronx, New York, are a monastic community dedicated to a life of prayer and penance for the preaching mission of the Dominican Order and for the salvation of souls." For more on Trap-Neuter-Return: www.neighborhoodcats.org — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

yodeled: Note that I put 3 St. Francis prayers for animals at the end of the post. Maybe these sisters never heard of St. Francis?

No, they’re Dominicans. (not really kidding ) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

… The Vicar of the Religious Office for the Archdiocese, Sister Helen C., stated, "my compassion does not extend to these animals" and "they will be removed eventually, one way or another."

… Thanks for the heads-up, Helen. What heart-breaking news. If that’s what it takes, I hope the cats can be safely removed from under the thumb of such cruel and small-minded person and taken to a safe place. It would be much better, though, if Sister Helen C. would re-examine the teaching of her faith or is forced to move instead of the cats.  I pity anyone who she attempts to teach, and I pity her when she has to make that final accounting of her life here on Earth. If Sister Helen C. is successful in ridding the place of cats, I hope the rats and cockroaches move in.  Then snakes, seeking food, will follow.  I wonder if she would prefer that. Annie

Response:

I don’t normally put this sort of stuff up at RPCA, but to to say I was appalled is an understatement. I thought that the Catholic Church showed compassion to all living creatures. Please help. Helen M For immediate release Contact: Neighborhood Cats, Inc. 212-662-5761 What Happened to the "Cat" in Catholic? (June 7, 2005) Newly elected Pope Benedict XVI’s well-known love of stray cats apparently is not shared by the Dominican Nuns of the Corpus Christi Monastery in the Bronx, New York. The Mother Superior has ordered the removal of seven feral cats who are almost all neutered, rabies vaccinated and have lived on the monastery’s five acres for the past 8 years. In a decision backed by the Archdiocese of NY, the plan is to first try to force the cats to leave by withholding all food and starving them. Then if they don’t go on their own, the resident Sisters will trap them and hand them over to the city. Shelter workers would be forced to euthanize the cats because they are feral and unadoptable and have nowhere else to be placed. The Vicar of the Religious Office for the Archdiocese, Sister Helen C., stated, "my compassion does not extend to these animals" and "they will be removed eventually, one way or another." "The plan is not only cruel for depriving these cats of their long-time home and causing their suffering and likely deaths, it is ineffective feral cat population control," said Bryan Kortis, Executive Director of Neighborhood Cats, a leading feral cat organization and a member of the Mayor’s Alliance for NYC’s Animals. "Maintaining neutered feral colonies, using a method known as Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR), is the only proven way to reduce feral numbers in the long term. Otherwise, new unneutered cats will simply replace the ones removed and the cycle of suffering and killing will go on indefinitely." Over the past eight years, at their own expense, volunteers have removed nine cats from the grounds of the monastery and placed them in homes. The cats too wild to be adopted were neutered and returned, stopping their reproduction, and were then fed by the nuns. Now, however, the nuns and the Archdiocese refuse to even meet with animal advocates to discuss the situation. To protest this heartless and ill-guided assault on the cats, please contact the Corpus Christi Monastery and the Archdiocese of NY by phone, email or fax (see below.) Let them know we expect more from our religious leaders than pointless cruelty towards innocent animals: Corpus Christi Monastery phone: 718-328-6996 fax: 718-328-1974 Archdiocese of NY phone: 212-371-1000 (ask for Public Relations or the Vicar of the Religious Office) fax: 212-826-6020 Act now! The cats have not been fed for five days and counting!! From www.nunsopbronx.homestead.com: "The DOMINICAN NUNS of Corpus Christi Monastery, Bronx, New York, are a monastic community dedicated to a life of prayer and penance for the preaching mission of the Dominican Order and for the salvation of souls." For more on Trap-Neuter-Return: www.neighborhoodcats.org — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

Why would they care about animals when they care so little about human suffering?

Response:

all the addresses have … for the domain name.  I will certainly email them if you can get the correct addy.  Hey, I even telephoned that Wisconsin guy wanting to allow shooting of cats, left a message on his answering machine saying that his proposals were now known all over the world, and I thought it would be a good idea to alert the BBC about it here in England. I can certainly do my bit about this if I can get the mail addresses. It is not out of the question that I phone them. Tweed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t normally put this sort of stuff up at RPCA, but to to say I was appalled is an understatement. I thought that the Catholic Church showed compassion to all living creatures. Please help. Helen M For immediate release Contact: Neighborhood Cats, Inc. 212-662-5761 What Happened to the "Cat" in Catholic? (June 7, 2005) Newly elected Pope Benedict XVI’s well-known love of stray cats apparently is not shared by the Dominican Nuns of the Corpus Christi Monastery in the Bronx, New York. The Mother Superior has ordered the removal of seven feral cats who are almost all neutered, rabies vaccinated and have lived on the monastery’s five acres for the past 8 years. In a decision backed by the Archdiocese of NY, the plan is to first try to force the cats to leave by withholding all food and starving them. Then if they don’t go on their own, the resident Sisters will trap them and hand them over to the city. Shelter workers would be forced to euthanize the cats because they are feral and unadoptable and have nowhere else to be placed. The Vicar of the Religious Office for the Archdiocese, Sister Helen C., stated, "my compassion does not extend to these animals" and "they will be removed eventually, one way or another." "The plan is not only cruel for depriving these cats of their long-time home and causing their suffering and likely deaths, it is ineffective feral cat population control," said Bryan Kortis, Executive Director of Neighborhood Cats, a leading feral cat organization and a member of the Mayor’s Alliance for NYC’s Animals. "Maintaining neutered feral colonies, using a method known as Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR), is the only proven way to reduce feral numbers in the long term. Otherwise, new unneutered cats will simply replace the ones removed and the cycle of suffering and killing will go on indefinitely." Over the past eight years, at their own expense, volunteers have removed nine cats from the grounds of the monastery and placed them in homes. The cats too wild to be adopted were neutered and returned, stopping their reproduction, and were then fed by the nuns. Now, however, the nuns and the Archdiocese refuse to even meet with animal advocates to discuss the situation. To protest this heartless and ill-guided assault on the cats, please contact the Corpus Christi Monastery and the Archdiocese of NY by phone, email or fax (see below.) Let them know we expect more from our religious leaders than pointless cruelty towards innocent animals: Corpus Christi Monastery phone: 718-328-6996 fax: 718-328-1974 Archdiocese of NY phone: 212-371-1000 (ask for Public Relations or the Vicar of the Religious Office) fax: 212-826-6020 Act now! The cats have not been fed for five days and counting!! From www.nunsopbronx.homestead.com: "The DOMINICAN NUNS of Corpus Christi Monastery, Bronx, New York, are a monastic community dedicated to a life of prayer and penance for the preaching mission of the Dominican Order and for the salvation of souls." For more on Trap-Neuter-Return: www.neighborhoodcats.org — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

I can certainly do my bit about this if I can get the mail addresses. It is not out of the question that I phone them. Tweed

CONTACT INFORMATION DOMINICAN NUNS Corpus Christi Monastery 1230 Lafayette Avenue Bronx, NY  10474-5399 Phone: 718-328-6996 (Fax) -1974 Maybe some litterbox offerings would be in order?? Helen M — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

Email has been sent – with the comment : Why????  Are you that cold-hearted????  You (and the child-molesters) will not go to heaven! Hope this gets their attention.  Also that it’s just more bad press for the catholic church (just what it needs, eh?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can certainly do my bit about this if I can get the mail addresses. It is not out of the question that I phone them. Tweed CONTACT INFORMATION DOMINICAN NUNS Corpus Christi Monastery 1230 Lafayette Avenue Bronx, NY  10474-5399 Phone: 718-328-6996 (Fax) -1974 Maybe some litterbox offerings would be in order?? Helen M — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

I don’t normally put this sort of stuff up at RPCA, but to to say I was appalled is an understatement. I thought that the Catholic Church showed compassion to all living creatures. Please help. Helen M

I am shocked. Maybe it has something to do with the Dominicans– after all, they were known as the "Dogs of the Lord." (Domini-Canes) Seriously, I will certainly give these sisters a piece of my mind. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Question:

I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.

I DID NOT say that!!!! You can’t prove it, anyway! (Jefferson said that revolution every 100 years was not only healthy, but necessary for a free democracy. We’re 40 years late, people.)

Response:

(Jefferson said that revolution every 100 years was not only healthy, but necessary for a free democracy. We’re 40 years late, people.)

We just had a revolution – 40 years ago! Where were you? (Or can’t you remember? Janie — "If tombstones told the truth, hell would have gone out of business long ago."  – Piebald Plato

Response:

(Jefferson said that revolution every 100 years was not only healthy, but necessary for a free democracy. We’re 40 years late, people.) We just had a revolution – 40 years ago! Where were you? (Or can’t you remember?

I was there, (which is why I don’t remember :^)   ) it fizzled out.

Response:

    Oh, it doesn’t get any better than this. Now, can you come and kick some Iowa ass for me? ….and all of this sounds oh, so familiar. These people are such ignorant zealots that they even piss off the people they are trying to help. Their entire organization, nationwide, needs dismantling, in it’s entirety. A half dozen monkeys, four crayons, and a banana could come up with better organization.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you will say that this is just an accounting issue, and it is, but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.  He’s paying CS in a paternity case.  For the last 6 mos. we’ve been trying to clear up a misallocation of payments between two accounts. The CSE Office created a 2nd account for a kid because CPS took and placed the kid with the maternal G/M. Since then, they have been harassing and threatening the guy in an effort to collect money for the 2nd account that was paid and credited to the 1st account due to errors in the court order.  At a hearing in August, I was assured that the problem would be corrected, but nothing happened.  In November, the same stuff began again, as if the August hearing had not happened. I set another hearing.  The CSE Office then obtained (ex parte) an order which validated their collection efforts but did not correct the misallocation of payments.  I obtained an order telling CSE that they could not suspend his DL or report him delinquent to credit agencies until this matter was resolved. But they did it anyway.   On 12/31, I took him to the CSE office, had them read the court order, and spent the next 3 hours getting his DL reinstated. Oh, the child was returned to the mother in November.  We have another hearing set for today.  <End Vent [Roger]

Response:

    Psst, Fido! Follow me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our father, Who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name… …Keep us this day from US collection efforts and retain us our driver’s licenses As they retained those that sinned against them And lead us not into arrearages for theirs is a system I wish to remain out of Amen. Good prayer. I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection. I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore. Best – Fido

Response:

    Well, Rog, you know the old saying. "Trust in God, but get it in writing."

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.  I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore. A Clerk told me CSE consistently fails to obey court orders which attempt to protect payors from enforcement actions, because CSE’s computers are only programmed to churn out deliquency notices and humans never look in the file to see if there’s any reason not to act on it. CSE’s attorney’s was apologetic and agreed to everything I asked: — A declaration that there is no arrearage owed in either account. — No action to be taken… no DL suspension, no liens & no reports. — A reallocation of payments from the 1st to the 2d accounts. — Termination of the 2nd account as of 11/12. They said that they "hoped" that this would resolve the matter. I told the judge that what they proposed sounded good, but that I would wait and see whether the Clerk & CSE complied with it. [Roger]

Response:

    I’d love nothing more than to *fix* their program. what they do to us guys should be criminal, but as you already know, "We’re all dead beats".

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey John, Maybe you can approach the CSE office and offer to ‘fix’ their program for a hmmm, ‘SMALL FEE’… Shit, let me have a hack at it…I can assure you it won’t be crankin’ out excess notices. Suffice it to say, where I am working at the moment, we have six figure salaries asking entry level and contract temps how to do their how to do the six figure programming. What’s wrong with this picture. Be afraid. Be very afraid. I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.  I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore. A Clerk told me CSE consistently fails to obey court orders which attempt to protect payors from enforcement actions, because CSE’s computers are only programmed to churn out deliquency notices and humans never look in the file to see if there’s any reason not to act on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah … blame it on the IT guys.  It’s always the IT guys. "Wazzamatta, you can’t write a program that produces surplus notices or soemthing?" (actually, once you’ve designed a program, it gets pretty complicated to redesign it … proper functional specs required!) Rambler

Response:

I don’t understand why more people don’t go for creative settlement agreements that get rid of the monthly payment.  My ex and I did that – set it up so that I paid off his interest in the house at exactly the same rate of speed that he would have been paying child support. It explicitly states in our divorce decree that no money changes hands in either direction.  It seemed like a good idea – the kids stayed in their own house, he never has to worry about having enough money to pay childsupport, we’ll never have to go through the screwed-up collection system mentioned here.  It also seems like more people could do this kind of thing – it wouldn’t work for everybody, but it seems like it would work for some significant fraction of divorces.

Mature adults allowed to act in a responsible and reasonable manner. Who’da thunk it?

Response:

Hey John, Maybe you can approach the CSE office and offer to ‘fix’ their program for a hmmm, ‘SMALL FEE’… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shit, let me have a hack at it…I can assure you it won’t be crankin’ out excess notices. Suffice it to say, where I am working at the moment, we have six figure salaries asking entry level and contract temps how to do their how to do the six figure programming. What’s wrong with this picture. Be afraid. Be very afraid. I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.  I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore. A Clerk told me CSE consistently fails to obey court orders which attempt to protect payors from enforcement actions, because CSE’s computers are only programmed to churn out deliquency notices and humans never look in the file to see if there’s any reason not to act on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah … blame it on the IT guys.  It’s always the IT guys. "Wazzamatta, you can’t write a program that produces surplus notices or soemthing?" (actually, once you’ve designed a program, it gets pretty complicated to redesign it … proper functional specs required!) Rambler

Response:

"Joy" wrote… I don’t understand why more people don’t go for creative settlement agreements that get rid of the monthly payment.  My ex and I did that – set it up so that I paid off his interest in the house at exactly the same rate of speed that he would have been paying child support. This is too sensible.  The judge agreed to this?  Mon Dieu!  There are some who would say that this benefits your interest in the house, not your kids, and that you can’t buy them food and clothing with equity in the house.

But I *can* buy them food and clothing with the cash that I would have otherwise had to pay to my ex…. An arrangement like this probably wouldn’t work if the parties involved are so close to the poverty level that they need the child support to buy groceries, or if custody was bouncing back and forth between them.  For a lot of others, though, it would be good.  I just can’t help but think that there could be much more creative agreements out there, if people could just get past thinking that things can only be done in the "classic" way… But what’s more objectionable, is that CSE won’t get a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – fee for handling your case.  They get paid per case #.

Response:

    Bill, you do realize we can construct an expert system to deal with all of this crap. It’s the one thing I know would be fair an impartial, and no amount of special interest lobbying could sway a computer. If a medical expert system can crank out an over 80% diagnosis and treatment rate ( well above their human counterpart ), imagine what could be done on the legal side…leaving only the appeals to be heard by human judges. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you will say that this is just an accounting issue, and it is, but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.  He’s paying CS in a paternity case.  For the last 6 mos. we’ve been trying to clear up a misallocation of payments between two accounts. The CSE Office created a 2nd account for a kid because CPS took and placed the kid with the maternal G/M. Since then, they have been harassing and threatening the guy in an effort to collect money for the 2nd account that was paid and credited to the 1st account due to errors in the court order.  At a hearing in August, I was assured that the problem would be corrected, but nothing happened.  In November, the same stuff began again, as if the August hearing had not happened. I set another hearing.  The CSE Office then obtained (ex parte) an order which validated their collection efforts but did not correct the misallocation of payments.  I obtained an order telling CSE that they could not suspend his DL or report him delinquent to credit agencies until this matter was resolved. But they did it anyway.   On 12/31, I took him to the CSE office, had them read the court order, and spent the next 3 hours getting his DL reinstated. Oh, the child was returned to the mother in November.  We have another hearing set for today.  <End Vent [Roger] And some say we have the "best" legal system in the world?     (God help us). The Serenity Prayer comes to mind, but it is a fleeting visit.    Catch it if u can.

Response:

….and Welcome to my world ( and the number is correct BTW ). See you on the other side.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, that sounds good.  The thing is, so I heard from the emmasculated brethren (I think that is the masculinist or whatever) that in many instances even when people have agreements, the State steps in.  How true that is I don’t know, but I will tell you … it scares the shiite out of me (which is why I am a sunny). I guess this discussion has kind of been had before in another vein, that being the fairness of the court system (down, Bill, down).  On the one hand you’ve got people in the business like Denise who say it seems pretty even handed (I think that is what was said, but if not attribute it to somebody else), but on the other you have these horror stories that scare the sunni out of me too.  I don’t want to have to pack up and move to fight an unfair $23,000 levy.  I mean, I shake with anger when my ex calls me a "Deadbeat Dad," but then to have to fight a system against that as well … I can tell you, from my standpoint, it is tough enough pushing through on these things, and the impetus to give in and give up is great … with that type of hassle on top, I can see why men disappear from their kids lives.  Sorry, I know there is a fear factor there. Rambler

Response:

    Just stay out of Iowa. To err is human, to really foul things up requires an Iowa pig farmer in the CSRU. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t understand why more people don’t go for creative settlement agreements that get rid of the monthly payment.  My ex and I did that – set it up so that I paid off his interest in the house at exactly the same rate of speed that he would have been paying child support.  It explicitly states in our divorce decree that no money changes hands in either direction.  It seemed like a good idea – the kids stayed in their own house, he never has to worry about having enough money to pay childsupport, we’ll never have to go through the screwed-up collection system mentioned here.  It also seems like more people could do this kind of thing – it wouldn’t work for everybody, but it seems like it would work for some significant fraction of divorces.

Response:

Shit, let me have a hack at it…I can assure you it won’t be crankin’ out excess notices. Suffice it to say, where I am working at the moment, we have six figure salaries asking entry level and contract temps how to do their how to do the six figure programming. What’s wrong with this picture. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.  I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore. A Clerk told me CSE consistently fails to obey court orders which attempt to protect payors from enforcement actions, because CSE’s computers are only programmed to churn out deliquency notices and humans never look in the file to see if there’s any reason not to act on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah … blame it on the IT guys.  It’s always the IT guys. "Wazzamatta, you can’t write a program that produces surplus notices or soemthing?" (actually, once you’ve designed a program, it gets pretty complicated to redesign it … proper functional specs required!) Rambler

Response:

"Joy" wrote… I don’t understand why more people don’t go for creative settlement agreements that get rid of the monthly payment.  My ex and I did that – set it up so that I paid off his interest in the house at exactly the same rate of speed that he would have been paying child support.

This is too sensible.  The judge agreed to this?  Mon Dieu!  There are some who would say that this benefits your interest in the house, not your kids, and that you can’t buy them food and clothing with equity in the house.  But what’s more objectionable, is that CSE won’t get a fee for handling your case.  They get paid per case #.

Response:

I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.  I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore. A Clerk told me CSE consistently fails to obey court orders which attempt to protect payors from enforcement actions, because CSE’s computers are only programmed to churn out deliquency notices and humans never look in the file to see if there’s any reason not to act on it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah … blame it on the IT guys.  It’s always the IT guys. "Wazzamatta, you can’t write a program that produces surplus notices or soemthing?" (actually, once you’ve designed a program, it gets pretty complicated to redesign it … proper functional specs required!) Rambler

Response:

I don’t understand why more people don’t go for creative settlement agreements that get rid of the monthly payment.  My ex and I did that – set it up so that I paid off his interest in the house at exactly the same rate of speed that he would have been paying child support. It explicitly states in our divorce decree that no money changes hands in either direction.  It seemed like a good idea – the kids stayed in their own house, he never has to worry about having enough money to pay childsupport, we’ll never have to go through the screwed-up collection system mentioned here.  It also seems like more people could do this kind of thing – it wouldn’t work for everybody, but it seems like it would work for some significant fraction of divorces.

Yes, that sounds good.  The thing is, so I heard from the emmasculated brethren (I think that is the masculinist or whatever) that in many instances even when people have agreements, the State steps in.  How true that is I don’t know, but I will tell you … it scares the shiite out of me (which is why I am a sunny). I guess this discussion has kind of been had before in another vein, that being the fairness of the court system (down, Bill, down).  On the one hand you’ve got people in the business like Denise who say it seems pretty even handed (I think that is what was said, but if not attribute it to somebody else), but on the other you have these horror stories that scare the sunni out of me too.  I don’t want to have to pack up and move to fight an unfair $23,000 levy.  I mean, I shake with anger when my ex calls me a "Deadbeat Dad," but then to have to fight a system against that as well … I can tell you, from my standpoint, it is tough enough pushing through on these things, and the impetus to give in and give up is great … with that type of hassle on top, I can see why men disappear from their kids lives.  Sorry, I know there is a fear factor there. Rambler

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you will say that this is just an accounting issue, and it is, but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.  He’s paying CS in a paternity case.  For the last 6 mos. we’ve been trying to clear up a misallocation of payments between two accounts. The CSE Office created a 2nd account for a kid because CPS took and placed the kid with the maternal G/M. Since then, they have been harassing and threatening the guy in an effort to collect money for the 2nd account that was paid and credited to the 1st account due to errors in the court order.  At a hearing in August, I was assured that the problem would be corrected, but nothing happened.  In November, the same stuff began again, as if the August hearing had not happened. I set another hearing.  The CSE Office then obtained (ex parte) an order which validated their collection efforts but did not correct the misallocation of payments.  I obtained an order telling CSE that they could not suspend his DL or report him delinquent to credit agencies until this matter was resolved. But they did it anyway.   On 12/31, I took him to the CSE office, had them read the court order, and spent the next 3 hours getting his DL reinstated. Oh, the child was returned to the mother in November.  We have another hearing set for today.  <End Vent [Roger]

And some say we have the "best" legal system in the world?     (God help us). The Serenity Prayer comes to mind, but it is a fleeting visit.    Catch it if u can.

Response:

Some of you will say that this is just an accounting issue, and it is, but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.

Well, I’m an accountant – and I will tell you it is NOT an accounting issue. but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.

That it is. But Rog’ – it could be worse. It could be YOU. Best – Fido

Response:

Our father, Who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name… …Keep us this day from US collection efforts and retain us our driver’s licenses As they retained those that sinned against them And lead us not into arrearages for theirs is a system I wish to remain out of Amen.

Good prayer. I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection. I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore. Best – Fido

Response:

I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.  I am finding it harder and harder to argue against that anymore.

A Clerk told me CSE consistently fails to obey court orders which attempt to protect payors from enforcement actions, because CSE’s computers are only programmed to churn out deliquency notices and humans never look in the file to see if there’s any reason not to act on it. CSE’s attorney’s was apologetic and agreed to everything I asked: — A declaration that there is no arrearage owed in either account. — No action to be taken… no DL suspension, no liens & no reports. — A reallocation of payments from the 1st to the 2d accounts. — Termination of the 2nd account as of 11/12. They said that they "hoped" that this would resolve the matter. I told the judge that what they proposed sounded good, but that I would wait and see whether the Clerk & CSE complied with it. [Roger]

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our father, Who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name… …Keep us this day from US collection efforts and retain us our driver’s licenses As they retained those that sinned against them And lead us not into arrearages for theirs is a system I wish to remain out of Amen. Good prayer. I know folks that are saying the only recourse at this point is armed insurrection.

I don’t understand why more people don’t go for creative settlement agreements that get rid of the monthly payment.  My ex and I did that – set it up so that I paid off his interest in the house at exactly the same rate of speed that he would have been paying child support.  It explicitly states in our divorce decree that no money changes hands in either direction.  It seemed like a good idea – the kids stayed in their own house, he never has to worry about having enough money to pay childsupport, we’ll never have to go through the screwed-up collection system mentioned here.  It also seems like more people could do this kind of thing – it wouldn’t work for everybody, but it seems like it would work for some significant fraction of divorces.

Response:

Amen ……. " T "

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you will say that this is just an accounting issue, and it is, but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.  He’s paying CS in a paternity case.  For the last 6 mos. we’ve been trying to clear up a misallocation of payments between two accounts. The CSE Office created a 2nd account for a kid because CPS took and placed the kid with the maternal G/M. Since then, they have been harassing and threatening the guy in an effort to collect money for the 2nd account that was paid and credited to the 1st account due to errors in the court order.  At a hearing in August, I was assured that the problem would be corrected, but nothing happened.  In November, the same stuff began again, as if the August hearing had not happened. I set another hearing.  The CSE Office then obtained (ex parte) an order which validated their collection efforts but did not correct the misallocation of payments.  I obtained an order telling CSE that they could not suspend his DL or report him delinquent to credit agencies until this matter was resolved. But they did it anyway.   On 12/31, I took him to the CSE office, had them read the court order, and spent the next 3 hours getting his DL reinstated. Oh, the child was returned to the mother in November.  We have another hearing set for today.  <End Vent [Roger] Our father, Who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name… …Keep us this day from US collection efforts and retain us our driver’s licenses As they retained those that sinned against them And lead us not into arrearages for theirs is a system I wish to remain out of Amen.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you will say that this is just an accounting issue, and it is, but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.  He’s paying CS in a paternity case.  For the last 6 mos. we’ve been trying to clear up a misallocation of payments between two accounts. The CSE Office created a 2nd account for a kid because CPS took and placed the kid with the maternal G/M. Since then, they have been harassing and threatening the guy in an effort to collect money for the 2nd account that was paid and credited to the 1st account due to errors in the court order.  At a hearing in August, I was assured that the problem would be corrected, but nothing happened.  In November, the same stuff began again, as if the August hearing had not happened. I set another hearing.  The CSE Office then obtained (ex parte) an order which validated their collection efforts but did not correct the misallocation of payments.  I obtained an order telling CSE that they could not suspend his DL or report him delinquent to credit agencies until this matter was resolved. But they did it anyway.   On 12/31, I took him to the CSE office, had them read the court order, and spent the next 3 hours getting his DL reinstated. Oh, the child was returned to the mother in November.  We have another hearing set for today.  <End Vent [Roger]

Our father, Who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name… …Keep us this day from US collection efforts and retain us our driver’s licenses As they retained those that sinned against them And lead us not into arrearages for theirs is a system I wish to remain out of Amen.

Response:

Some of you will say that this is just an accounting issue, and it is, but to my stepson, its been a nightmare.  He’s paying CS in a paternity case.  For the last 6 mos. we’ve been trying to clear up a misallocation of payments between two accounts. The CSE Office created a 2nd account for a kid because CPS took and placed the kid with the maternal G/M. Since then, they have been harassing and threatening the guy in an effort to collect money for the 2nd account that was paid and credited to the 1st account due to errors in the court order.  At a hearing in August, I was assured that the problem would be corrected, but nothing happened.  In November, the same stuff began again, as if the August hearing had not happened. I set another hearing.  The CSE Office then obtained (ex parte) an order which validated their collection efforts but did not correct the misallocation of payments.  I obtained an order telling CSE that they could not suspend his DL or report him delinquent to credit agencies until this matter was resolved. But they did it anyway.   On 12/31, I took him to the CSE office, had them read the court order, and spent the next 3 hours getting his DL reinstated. Oh, the child was returned to the mother in November.  We have another hearing set for today.  <End Vent [Roger]

Response:

Question:

Your board is an expense not a fixed asset please believe me?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why so many references to an aircraft?  I don’t think that is a good example given my post. Brett Is there an amount limit in the US that one can say something is an expense or fixed asset?  Say below $250 is an expense.  What conditions should I use to qualify an expense or fixed asset? Maybe a computer cpu, motherboard, office white board, office table are all expenses because they are under $250, yet last longer than a year as a fixed asset does. Thanks, Brett

Response:

It was just a question that I had, which had some relation to your post.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why so many references to an aircraft?  I don’t think that is a good example given my post. Brett Is there an amount limit in the US that one can say something is an expense or fixed asset?  Say below $250 is an expense.  What conditions should I use to qualify an expense or fixed asset? Maybe a computer cpu, motherboard, office white board, office table are all expenses because they are under $250, yet last longer than a year as a fixed asset does. Thanks, Brett

Response:

Hi John As you know appreciating assets remain on the books in the USA at cost.. The concept here is "don’t count your chickens before they hatch" <g Accountants call that the "cost principle"  The cost principle has roots in conservatism, losses related to assets are recorded as they happen but "possible" gains are not. For practical purposes as Cindy stated it is not a gain or loss until you sell or trade. We live in a world with a variable dollar.  It matters not to the tax man if you paid $34,000 in 1978 for an item and now the $$ value is $75,000. Well $75,000 today is not $34,000 in 1978 $$ so you will (maybe) be paying tax because a 2k+ $$ is worth $0.30. I would write it off.  The money is still shrinking in relation to the value of goods.  The non-cash tax benefit helps your cash flow.  I would investigate with a tax specialist to find, if you trade the plane, if there are tax "roll over" possibilities that could avoid a tax on the gain. If you sell the plane outright in the future you will pay the tax with less valuable $$ than today and you will have the cash from the sale to pay any tax. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excellent response, John.  Perhaps you can volunteer an opinion on a somewhat similar topic that I posted on this board a few weeks ago. It too, deals with fixed assets, but along a slightly different tangent. As an example, I purchased an airplane in 1978 (brand new) for $34,000.  Now in 2001, some 23 years later, that same aircraft has a fair market value of around $75,000. Granted, there have been some capital improvements along the way, but if you factor those out of the equation, the appraised value of the aircraft is around $60-65,000.  Still significantly higher than the cost basis. The increase in value is mostly due to a general, low level of supply of light aircraft in the 1980’s and early 1990’s because manufacturer’s left the market to avoid excessivily high liability exposures.  One major builder went bankrupt as a result.  Recently, legislation restricted product liability to aircraft manufacturers to 15 years (I think), so many companies have re-entered the market. The question is, "How would you treat this asset with regards to depreciation?"  Consider the fact that the salvage value exceeds the cost. Additionally, how can I predict what will happen in the future now that the problem that caused this situation has been resolved?  Only time will tell, I suppose.

<snip

Response:

John, again, thanks for the input.  Your points are valid, except I should add a couple of other wrinkles. First of all, I am not particularly interested in how we treat this for tax purposes.  I am writing them off on a 6-year ADS. The tax issues, as well as any potential capital gains are actually moot, since the aircraft is owned by a non-profit organization. I am more interested in the GAAP thinking concerning how to state these assets in our financial statements.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi John As you know appreciating assets remain on the books in the USA at cost.. The concept here is "don’t count your chickens before they hatch" <g Accountants call that the "cost principle"  The cost principle has roots in conservatism, losses related to assets are recorded as they happen but "possible" gains are not. For practical purposes as Cindy stated it is not a gain or loss until you sell or trade. We live in a world with a variable dollar.  It matters not to the tax man if you paid $34,000 in 1978 for an item and now the $$ value is $75,000. Well $75,000 today is not $34,000 in 1978 $$ so you will (maybe) be paying tax because a 2k+ $$ is worth $0.30. I would write it off.  The money is still shrinking in relation to the value of goods.  The non-cash tax benefit helps your cash flow.  I would investigate with a tax specialist to find, if you trade the plane, if there are tax "roll over" possibilities that could avoid a tax on the gain. If you sell the plane outright in the future you will pay the tax with less valuable $$ than today and you will have the cash from the sale to pay any tax. Excellent response, John.  Perhaps you can volunteer an opinion on a somewhat similar topic that I posted on this board a few weeks ago. It too, deals with fixed assets, but along a slightly different tangent. As an example, I purchased an airplane in 1978 (brand new) for $34,000.  Now in 2001, some 23 years later, that same aircraft has a fair market value of around $75,000. Granted, there have been some capital improvements along the way, but if you factor those out of the equation, the appraised value of the aircraft is around $60-65,000.  Still significantly higher than the cost basis. The increase in value is mostly due to a general, low level of supply of light aircraft in the 1980’s and early 1990’s because manufacturer’s left the market to avoid excessivily high liability exposures.  One major builder went bankrupt as a result.  Recently, legislation restricted product liability to aircraft manufacturers to 15 years (I think), so many companies have re-entered the market. The question is, "How would you treat this asset with regards to depreciation?"  Consider the fact that the salvage value exceeds the cost. Additionally, how can I predict what will happen in the future now that the problem that caused this situation has been resolved?  Only time will tell, I suppose. <snip

Response:

If you sell this asset then you will open a disposal account this willinclude the money received for the aircraft and the total depreciation that you have charged to expenses. The difference between the cost of the fixed asset when you bought it and what it is valued at now will as you say be a profit. This profit is then put back into your accounts as an income. If it was a loss then that woukld also be entered in your profit and loss account but as an expense. I guess you have no need to worry until you sell it! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excellent response, John.  Perhaps you can volunteer an opinion on a somewhat similar topic that I posted on this board a few weeks ago.  It too, deals with fixed assets, but along a slightly different tangent. As an example, I purchased an airplane in 1978 (brand new) for $34,000. Now in 2001, some 23 years later, that same aircraft has a fair market value of around $75,000. Granted, there have been some capital improvements along the way, but if you factor those out of the equation, the appraised value of the aircraft is around $60-65,000.  Still significantly higher than the cost basis. The increase in value is mostly due to a general, low level of supply of light aircraft in the 1980’s and early 1990’s because manufacturer’s left the market to avoid excessivily high liability exposures.  One major builder went bankrupt as a result.  Recently, legislation restricted product liability to aircraft manufacturers to 15 years (I think), so many companies have re-entered the market. The question is, "How would you treat this asset with regards to depreciation?"  Consider the fact that the salvage value exceeds the cost. Additionally, how can I predict what will happen in the future now that the problem that caused this situation has been resolved?  Only time will tell, I suppose. Assets represent resources owned (controlled) by the entity. There are some fundamental rules in accounting, "great principles" and the one in this case is the "matching principle".  Costs associated with revenue earned must be matched in the accounting period. Therefore almost all expenses are in fact assets but because they are used completely in the accounting period they are expensed at the time of purchase. Most of questions as to asset v expense are with "capital assets"  For accounting purposes (not income tax) a capital asset has a limited life that extends beyond the accounting period and is expensed, matched in a systematic and rational manner to the future revenues that it contrubutes toward. This rule is tempered for accounting purposes (not income tax) by the "materiality concept" and the "cost-benefit" constraint.  If the value of the item(s) is not large enought to affect decisions (material) or if the cost of recording the item out-weighs the value of the benifits it is expensed (subject to tax rules). The systematic and rational manner is important. Make some rules and stick to them. (systematic).  The cost of an individual items if it is to be part of a whole is not the cost of the item. If you buy computer parts and each item is under $200.00 but they are used to create a $10,000 computer system you must record the $10,000 computer system but if you buy 5 white boards for $1,000.00 and they are in fact sepeate items at $200 each they then may be expensed. (rational)(subject to tax rules) For taxation purposes some capital assets under certain dollar value may be expensed.  This is normally allowed by a class or catagory that is depreciated at 100%. Hi Brett I don’t know the correct answer to your question, but the way you word it, most of the items are expenses.  A new motherboard is considered a repair to an existing asset that is already being depreciated. <snip I purchased 5, 6 foot long chalkboards, heavy suckers.  These I had to claim as an asset and depreciate the cost.  Had I only purchased one of them, it would have been a standard office expense. TTUL Gary

Response:

Thanks for the input, Cindy.  I realize the capital gain implications, but I am more interested in whether or not I should depreciate this asset at all, or if so, at what rate?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you sell this asset then you will open a disposal account this willinclude the money received for the aircraft and the total depreciation that you have charged to expenses. The difference between the cost of the fixed asset when you bought it and what it is valued at now will as you say be a profit. This profit is then put back into your accounts as an income. If it was a loss then that woukld also be entered in your profit and loss account but as an expense. I guess you have no need to worry until you sell it! Excellent response, John.  Perhaps you can volunteer an opinion on a somewhat similar topic that I posted on this board a few weeks ago.  It too, deals with fixed assets, but along a slightly different tangent. As an example, I purchased an airplane in 1978 (brand new) for $34,000. Now in 2001, some 23 years later, that same aircraft has a fair market value of around $75,000. Granted, there have been some capital improvements along the way, but if you factor those out of the equation, the appraised value of the aircraft is around $60-65,000.  Still significantly higher than the cost basis. The increase in value is mostly due to a general, low level of supply of light aircraft in the 1980’s and early 1990’s because manufacturer’s left the market to avoid excessivily high liability exposures.  One major builder went bankrupt as a result.  Recently, legislation restricted product liability to aircraft manufacturers to 15 years (I think), so many companies have re-entered the market. The question is, "How would you treat this asset with regards to depreciation?"  Consider the fact that the salvage value exceeds the cost. Additionally, how can I predict what will happen in the future now that the problem that caused this situation has been resolved?  Only time will tell, I suppose. Assets represent resources owned (controlled) by the entity. There are some fundamental rules in accounting, "great principles" and the one in this case is the "matching principle".  Costs associated with revenue earned must be matched in the accounting period. Therefore almost all expenses are in fact assets but because they are used completely in the accounting period they are expensed at the time of purchase. Most of questions as to asset v expense are with "capital assets"  For accounting purposes (not income tax) a capital asset has a limited life that extends beyond the accounting period and is expensed, matched in a systematic and rational manner to the future revenues that it contrubutes toward. This rule is tempered for accounting purposes (not income tax) by the "materiality concept" and the "cost-benefit" constraint.  If the value of the item(s) is not large enought to affect decisions (material) or if the cost of recording the item out-weighs the value of the benifits it is expensed (subject to tax rules). The systematic and rational manner is important. Make some rules and stick to them. (systematic).  The cost of an individual items if it is to be part of a whole is not the cost of the item. If you buy computer parts and each item is under $200.00 but they are used to create a $10,000 computer system you must record the $10,000 computer system but if you buy 5 white boards for $1,000.00 and they are in fact sepeate items at $200 each they then may be expensed. (rational)(subject to tax rules) For taxation purposes some capital assets under certain dollar value may be expensed.  This is normally allowed by a class or catagory that is depreciated at 100%. Hi Brett I don’t know the correct answer to your question, but the way you word it, most of the items are expenses.  A new motherboard is considered a repair to an existing asset that is already being depreciated. <snip I purchased 5, 6 foot long chalkboards, heavy suckers.  These I had to claim as an asset and depreciate the cost.  Had I only purchased one of them, it would have been a standard office expense. TTUL Gary

Response:

Why so many references to an aircraft?  I don’t think that is a good example given my post. Brett

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there an amount limit in the US that one can say something is an expense or fixed asset?  Say below $250 is an expense.  What conditions should I use to qualify an expense or fixed asset? Maybe a computer cpu, motherboard, office white board, office table are all expenses because they are under $250, yet last longer than a year as a fixed asset does. Thanks, Brett

Response:

Assets represent resources owned (controlled) by the entity. There are some fundamental rules in accounting, "great principles" and the one in this case is the "matching principle".  Costs associated with revenue earned must be matched in the accounting period. Therefore almost all expenses are in fact assets but because they are used completely in the accounting period they are expensed at the time of purchase. Most of questions as to asset v expense are with "capital assets"  For accounting purposes (not income tax) a capital asset has a limited life that extends beyond the accounting period and is expensed, matched in a systematic and rational manner to the future revenues that it contrubutes toward. This rule is tempered for accounting purposes (not income tax) by the "materiality concept" and the "cost-benefit" constraint.  If the value of the item(s) is not large enought to affect decisions (material) or if the cost of recording the item out-weighs the value of the benifits it is expensed (subject to tax rules). The systematic and rational manner is important. Make some rules and stick to them. (systematic).  The cost of an individual items if it is to be part of a whole is not the cost of the item. If you buy computer parts and each item is under $200.00 but they are used to create a $10,000 computer system you must record the $10,000 computer system but if you buy 5 white boards for $1,000.00 and they are in fact sepeate items at $200 each they then may be expensed. (rational)(subject to tax rules) For taxation purposes some capital assets under certain dollar value may be expensed.  This is normally allowed by a class or catagory that is depreciated at 100%. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Brett I don’t know the correct answer to your question, but the way you word it, most of the items are expenses.  A new motherboard is considered a repair to an existing asset that is already being depreciated. <snip I purchased 5, 6 foot long chalkboards, heavy suckers.  These I had to claim as an asset and depreciate the cost.  Had I only purchased one of them, it would have been a standard office expense. TTUL Gary

Response:

Excellent response, John.  Perhaps you can volunteer an opinion on a somewhat similar topic that I posted on this board a few weeks ago.  It too, deals with fixed assets, but along a slightly different tangent. As an example, I purchased an airplane in 1978 (brand new) for $34,000.  Now in 2001, some 23 years later, that same aircraft has a fair market value of around $75,000. Granted, there have been some capital improvements along the way, but if you factor those out of the equation, the appraised value of the aircraft is around $60-65,000.  Still significantly higher than the cost basis. The increase in value is mostly due to a general, low level of supply of light aircraft in the 1980’s and early 1990’s because manufacturer’s left the market to avoid excessivily high liability exposures.  One major builder went bankrupt as a result.  Recently, legislation restricted product liability to aircraft manufacturers to 15 years (I think), so many companies have re-entered the market. The question is, "How would you treat this asset with regards to depreciation?"  Consider the fact that the salvage value exceeds the cost. Additionally, how can I predict what will happen in the future now that the problem that caused this situation has been resolved?  Only time will tell, I suppose.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Assets represent resources owned (controlled) by the entity. There are some fundamental rules in accounting, "great principles" and the one in this case is the "matching principle".  Costs associated with revenue earned must be matched in the accounting period. Therefore almost all expenses are in fact assets but because they are used completely in the accounting period they are expensed at the time of purchase. Most of questions as to asset v expense are with "capital assets"  For accounting purposes (not income tax) a capital asset has a limited life that extends beyond the accounting period and is expensed, matched in a systematic and rational manner to the future revenues that it contrubutes toward. This rule is tempered for accounting purposes (not income tax) by the "materiality concept" and the "cost-benefit" constraint.  If the value of the item(s) is not large enought to affect decisions (material) or if the cost of recording the item out-weighs the value of the benifits it is expensed (subject to tax rules). The systematic and rational manner is important. Make some rules and stick to them. (systematic).  The cost of an individual items if it is to be part of a whole is not the cost of the item. If you buy computer parts and each item is under $200.00 but they are used to create a $10,000 computer system you must record the $10,000 computer system but if you buy 5 white boards for $1,000.00 and they are in fact sepeate items at $200 each they then may be expensed. (rational)(subject to tax rules) For taxation purposes some capital assets under certain dollar value may be expensed.  This is normally allowed by a class or catagory that is depreciated at 100%. Hi Brett I don’t know the correct answer to your question, but the way you word it, most of the items are expenses.  A new motherboard is considered a repair to an existing asset that is already being depreciated. <snip I purchased 5, 6 foot long chalkboards, heavy suckers.  These I had to claim as an asset and depreciate the cost.  Had I only purchased one of them, it would have been a standard office expense. TTUL Gary

Response:

Is there an amount limit in the US that one can say something is an expense or fixed asset?  Say below $250 is an expense.  What conditions should I use to qualify an expense or fixed asset? Maybe a computer cpu, motherboard, office white board, office table are all expenses because they are under $250, yet last longer than a year as a fixed asset does. Thanks, Brett

Response:

I thought the answers were given in response to your earlier post! — Ken Russell Sydney

Is there an amount limit in the US that one can say something is an expense or fixed asset?  Say below $250 is an expense.  What conditions should I use to qualify an expense or fixed asset? Maybe a computer cpu, motherboard, office white board, office table are all expenses because they are under $250, yet last longer than a year as a fixed asset does. Thanks, Brett

Response:

Hi Brett I don’t know the correct answer to your question, but the way you word it, most of the items are expenses.  A new motherboard is considered a repair to an existing asset that is already being depreciated. The computer system (assembled and working) when you started your business was a capital expenditure, an asset with a definitive lifespan.  If you replace a component within that asset it is simply an equipment repair. This may sound rediculous, but if you replace a tire on a company owned vehicle, it is considered a repair, even if that vehicle happens to be a multi-million dollar machine and the tires cost in excess of 5 grand each, it’s still a repair to an existing depreciable asset. Now the accountants can pounce on me for that one, hi hi….. Naturally, all consumables used in the office are expensed, unless you buy them in vast quantities that cannot be consumed in a reasonable time.  As an example, the manufacturer of a particular product we used and loved was closing down his business.  Before closing we contracted with them to run as many of this product as he could with the raw materials he had available.  The finished product filled an entire 3 story warehouse.  Even though it was a consumable, it became a capital expenditure and an inventoried item as well until the stock was depleted. I purchased 5, 6 foot long chalkboards, heavy suckers.  These I had to claim as an asset and depreciate the cost.  Had I only purchased one of them, it would have been a standard office expense. TTUL Gary

Response:

Question:

Hi all, Anyone out there have much experience with Traverse? Seems flexible, and the data is easily accessible. Any thoughts? Steve S

Response:

Last I knew it was an Access based program? First thing I question when I hear Access based is how will the speed be in a year or two. Just my .02. Wayne http://www.s-consult.com MAS90 , MAS200 and Accounting Software Consulting MAS90 Newsletter http://www.s-consult.com/starinfo/q401/email.htm

Response:

Haven’t used Traverse.  Have talked to the company a number of times.  Believe it is Access based.  Depends on what you want to do with it.  Access isn’t up to the data handling of Foxpro, but it is probably the best of the end user databases.   Right now my feeling is that low end midlevels, and I suspect Traverse falls in this area are getting pushed by programs like Peachtree.  Mid levels like ACCPAC Pro have much more power and are holding their price level.  For instance ACCPAC’s Vision Point Product which is what I think Traverse is similar to goes for $800 a module.  Pro goes for $1200.   For the difference you get a huge amount of additional functionality.  On the other hand if you don’t need a lot then Peachtree multiuser runs about $550 for a very complete program.  Main limitations are can’t handle a lot of volumn and you have to be able to fit your business into its modle, because the first time something significant comes up that it will not do you are dead in the water.  Still I’d say most business with under 2 million in sales are well served by it. Bill Couture

Response:

Bill- Nicely said. -wayne http://www.s-consult.com MAS90 , MAS200 and Accounting Software Consulting MAS90 Newsletter http://www.s-consult.com/starinfo/q401/email.htm

Response:

Steve, I am a programmer at a company that sells Traverse.  Speaking as a programmer it is the best written program I have ever seen and the complete source code is provided for free.  It is an Access based product in frontend only, it uses SQL Server as a backend.  The forms(Frontend) is in Access. Access is not used as the main database for Traverse.  Contact me if you want more information

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Anyone out there have much experience with Traverse? Seems flexible, and the data is easily accessible. Any thoughts? Steve S

Response:

My contact info is www.baltech.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Anyone out there have much experience with Traverse? Seems flexible, and the data is easily accessible. Any thoughts? Steve S

Response:

Question:

Hi Marianne Welcome to the group! You may also want to subscribe to alt.crafts.professional as well, they regularly talk about the business end of the various crafts businesses. TTUL Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i just happened across this newsgroup… i have a bachelor’s in accounting and worked in corporate for 20 years….. now i am doing pottery… i am looking into opening a place … and thinking of non-profit vs profit…. any feedback would be appreciated….you can email direct if you wish thanks in advance — marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/

Response:

Hi Again Marianne Now that I understand more of your idea, why don’t you check into the structure that built the group named ‘Junior Achievement’? It is an NPO that revolves around helping kids learn the business and manufacturing world, and oftentimes various crafts become their output. The children develop a business plan, sell stocks for working capital and then they are in business for a season, at the end of the season, they distribute the profits to the shareholders which ends the micro-business program for that season. It was just a thought! TTUL Gary

Response:

thanks gary…… funny i was a junior achiever myself… and i advised with them as a college student very few enterprisers made money…… but it was fun all the way around i will check out the ja closest to me…… marianne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Again Marianne Now that I understand more of your idea, why don’t you check into the structure that built the group named ‘Junior Achievement’? It is an NPO that revolves around helping kids learn the business and manufacturing world, and oftentimes various crafts become their output. The children develop a business plan, sell stocks for working capital and then they are in business for a season, at the end of the season, they distribute the profits to the shareholders which ends the micro-business program for that season. It was just a thought! TTUL Gary

Response:

AFAIK, cooperatives are not really NPOs.  Some of them produce substantial returns for the Patrons.  I think they could be viewed as a partnership to take care of some overhead function of a commonly interested group of people that is not adequately taken care of by the free market.  You have patronage investment , retentions (partner’s equity) , and taxable patronage dividends (income distributions). However, for what was described, it does sound like it might be a viable way to get a kiln and gallery for a group of artists who could not, individually, afford their own and for which there is no viable commercial alternative.  I think there is a boatload of non agricultural cooperatives in Minnesota, San Francisco, and maybe New York City.  I would be very suprised if there were not already many artists cooperatives that could serve as a model. I would think that Agricultural cooperatives would be fairly common in Washington State, maybe on the back half?

… Based on your post here and the information in you page, I would agree with Ron to the extent that you should look at the world of non-profits. While going to the library is certainly a viable way to do this, I suspect you can get more information faster by posting to soc.org.nonprofit.  Also, you can get

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thank you jim…… I am not particularly interested in a coop….. i have been a part of a coop and i am not interested in that….. i am looking into being creative…… so i guess i was looking for some brain storming …. i disliked the condo that i owned years ago…..a coop would be the same except business…. I thank you  for an least taking the time to review my page…. but my catalogue of experience in business was business…. some from the following : DuPont -Fuji Film, De La Rue( same people who make the presses that make the US currency), Cargill, Charter Oil ( if any are old enough to remember) I am mostly interested in a few having membership….. some of those would be financiers,  the member would be paying far more than $50. thank for for the irs page and the other newsgroup… i will check it out… feel free to email me direct if you have experience and want to share info…..or if you happen to come across something…… i am looking at this comig to fruition in early summer next year. marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/

We do brainstorming. The best way to "get the ball rolling" is to make an assertion and invite comments. One word of caution – this is an unmoderated group and it is possible to get more than you want. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

An example of what I was talking about: http://www.creativeeyecoop.com/pages/overview.html I found this with a quick www.google.com search There seem to be a lot of artists cooperatives out there, this was the first one I found that described the business structure.

Response:

thank you jim…… I am not particularly interested in a coop….. i have been a part of a coop and i am not interested in that….. i am looking into being creative…… so i guess i was looking for some brain storming …. i disliked the condo that i owned years ago…..a coop would be the same except business…. I thank you  for an least taking the time to review my page…. but my catalogue of experience in business was business…. some from the following : DuPont -Fuji Film, De La Rue( same people who make the presses that make the US currency), Cargill, Charter Oil ( if any are old enough to remember) I am mostly interested in a few having membership….. some of those would be financiers,  the member would be paying far more than $50. thank for for the irs page and the other newsgroup… i will check it out… feel free to email me direct if you have experience and want to share info…..or if you happen to come across something…… i am looking at this comig to fruition in early summer next year. marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Co-ops are a rather specialized area.  First thing I would do is go to the library and research Agricultural co-ops, their business structure, accounting, tax, and legal requirements. i am thinking of setting up a cooperative….. where by there would be spaces for pottery artists….. to work on there work… also make a commitment to the community to invest in their children and learning disabled…. just  one gas kiln alone is over $10,000…. and that is if i build it myself…. it can run over $50,000 to purchase completely built. the equipment is very cost prohibitive…. pots alone do not always make a business…. a recessionary market can close the business….. thinking of with the teaching and grants that could be received… also by being a non-profit you can obtain surplus equipment from the state …. — i hope this has helped with your question… marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/ Ron, Click on Marianne’s link and look at her profile page. I’m probably reading between the lines a bit, but I think I see a project worth putting a little effort into. Marianne, Based on your post here and the information in you page, I would agree with Ron to the extent that you should look at the world of non-profits. While going to the library is certainly a viable way to do this, I suspect you can get more information faster by posting to soc.org.nonprofit.  Also, you can get more information than you can possibly read by going to google (http://www.google.com/) and searching on non-profit. Also, you might want to click on

http://www.irs.gov/forms_pubs/pubs/p557toc.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and browse through what the IRS has to say regarding Tax-Exempt Status for Your Organization. Then you will no doubt want to come back here and ask more questions. Best regards, — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

i just happened across this newsgroup… i have a bachelor’s in accounting and worked in corporate for 20 years….. now i am doing pottery… i am looking into opening a place … and thinking of non-profit vs profit…. any feedback would be appreciated….you can email direct if you wish thanks in advance — marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/

Response:

i just happened across this newsgroup… i have a bachelor’s in accounting and worked in corporate for 20 years….. now i am doing pottery… i am looking into opening a place … and thinking of non-profit vs profit…. any feedback would be appreciated….you can email direct if you wish thanks in advance

I don’t understand how you can "do pottery" as a non-profit, or even why you would want to.  More information would be helpful. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

i am thinking of setting up a cooperative….. where by there would be spaces for pottery artists….. to work on there work… also make a commitment to the community to invest in their children and learning disabled…. just  one gas kiln alone is over $10,000…. and that is if i build it myself…. it can run over $50,000 to purchase completely built.     the equipment is very cost prohibitive…. pots alone do not always make a business…. a recessionary market can close the business….. thinking of with the teaching and grants that could be received… also by being a non-profit you can obtain surplus equipment from the state …. — i hope this has helped with your question… marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i just happened across this newsgroup… i have a bachelor’s in accounting and worked in corporate for 20 years….. now i am doing pottery… i am looking into opening a place … and thinking of non-profit vs profit…. any feedback would be appreciated….you can email direct if you wish thanks in advance I don’t understand how you can "do pottery" as a non-profit, or even why you would want to.  More information would be helpful. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

Co-ops are a rather specialized area.  First thing I would do is go to the library and research Agricultural co-ops, their business structure, accounting, tax, and legal requirements. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am thinking of setting up a cooperative….. where by there would be spaces for pottery artists….. to work on there work… also make a commitment to the community to invest in their children and learning disabled…. just  one gas kiln alone is over $10,000…. and that is if i build it myself…. it can run over $50,000 to purchase completely built.     the equipment is very cost prohibitive…. pots alone do not always make a business…. a recessionary market can close the business….. thinking of with the teaching and grants that could be received… also by being a non-profit you can obtain surplus equipment from the state …. — i hope this has helped with your question… marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/ i just happened across this newsgroup… i have a bachelor’s in accounting and worked in corporate for 20 years….. now i am doing pottery… i am looking into opening a place … and thinking of non-profit vs profit…. any feedback would be appreciated….you can email direct if you wish thanks in advance I don’t understand how you can "do pottery" as a non-profit, or even why you would want to.  More information would be helpful. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Co-ops are a rather specialized area.  First thing I would do is go to the library and research Agricultural co-ops, their business structure, accounting, tax, and legal requirements. i am thinking of setting up a cooperative….. where by there would be spaces for pottery artists….. to work on there work… also make a commitment to the community to invest in their children and learning disabled…. just  one gas kiln alone is over $10,000…. and that is if i build it myself…. it can run over $50,000 to purchase completely built.     the equipment is very cost prohibitive…. pots alone do not always make a business…. a recessionary market can close the business….. thinking of with the teaching and grants that could be received… also by being a non-profit you can obtain surplus equipment from the state …. — i hope this has helped with your question… marianne stebenne Pottery Artist http://web.meganet.net/mstebenn/

Ron, Click on Marianne’s link and look at her profile page. I’m probably reading between the lines a bit, but I think I see a project worth putting a little effort into. Marianne, Based on your post here and the information in you page, I would agree with Ron to the extent that you should look at the world of non-profits. While going to the library is certainly a viable way to do this, I suspect you can get more information faster by posting to soc.org.nonprofit.  Also, you can get more information than you can possibly read by going to google (http://www.google.com/) and searching on non-profit. Also, you might want to click on http://www.irs.gov/forms_pubs/pubs/p557toc.htm and browse through what the IRS has to say regarding Tax-Exempt Status for Your Organization. Then you will no doubt want to come back here and ask more questions. Best regards, — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

Question:

I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math?

Response:

I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math?

customary in mainland Europe Roger —  http://mypage.bluewin.ch/aroc

Response:

Also applied to Pub licenses in Australia. A 15 year license wasn’t 15 years, it was 14.8! Peter French Australia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math? customary in mainland Europe Roger —  http://mypage.bluewin.ch/aroc

Response:

There are at least a few methods used to calculate a loan amortization. In addition the time period in which interest is compounded needs to be determined. Read the small print on any loan documents.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math?

Response:

I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math?

Old, pre-calculator, pre-computer math. Some banks still use it because it allows them to rip people off for a few extra dollars per year. easy2000

Response:

I think you’ll find an Excel interest function which uses the 360 day year. Roger —  http://mypage.bluewin.ch/aroc

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math? Old, pre-calculator, pre-computer math. Some banks still use it because it allows them to rip people off for a few extra dollars per year. easy2000

Response:

I think you’ll find an Excel interest function which uses the 360 day year.

The hubris of Micro$oft never ceases to amaze me. easy2000

Response:

I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math?

If I recall correctly, it was the standard when I studied introductory accounting. (That was a long time ago, though.) Al

Response:

I took a loan out from a bank, and after checking with my trusty financial calculator, the loan payment calculated out to be less than what the bank calculated (go figure).  They said this was due to their calculations being based on a 360 day year rather than a 365 day year.  What is this, new math?

        Nothing new.  Before computers, calculators, etc. it was easier to do the math using 360 rather than 365.  There’s no excuse for it now except to steal a few more dollars from customers.  Sort of like credit cards’ 25 day billing cycle.   Works out to a 13 month year. FWK

Response:

Question:

Your Score of 9out of 10 makes you a Master Mechanic +ACE- Mwuhhaaahaaahaaaaaa+ACE-  : ) I’m not sure which one I missed. I think it must be the airfoil question. I said it +ACI-increased drag+ACI-, but maybe the correct answer was

+ACI-it depends+ACI-. Nah you had the right answer… it was one of the others… Marcus<– missed one on that same set…  – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jared Rude 1996 My+ACQ-take Cobra – Mostly apart 1990 LX 5.0 hatch – It’s broken too Stangerize wrote +AD4-I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough +AD4-to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I +AD4-got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew +AD4-chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers +AD4-are pretty funny. +AD4- +AD4-http://www.summitracing.com  and click on Tech to the right then click on Tech +AD4-Test. +AD4-or +AD4-Go here: +AD4-http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm +AD4-and click on tech test.

– 68 Mustang has moved 10 feet in ten months, great on gas mileage 91 tow-rus I don’t worry about gas prices, I worry about cheddar prices http://www.geocities.com/fordracing68 *updated* 6-22-00 Before you buy.

Response:

Wohooo!  7 out of 10.  Guess that makes me a gearhead!  :-0 Scott 96 GT MAC cat-back BBK offroad h-pipe MAC cold air induction Steeda Tri-Ax shifter Synthetics

Response:

Your Score of 9out of 10 makes you a Master Mechanic +ACE- Mwuhhaaahaaahaaaaaa+ACE-  : ) I’m not sure which one I missed. I think it must be the airfoil question. I said it +ACI-increased drag+ACI-, but maybe the correct answer was +ACI-it depends+ACI-. — Jared Rude 1996 My+ACQ-take Cobra – Mostly apart 1990 LX 5.0 hatch – It’s broken too Stangerize wrote +AD4-I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough +AD4-to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I +AD4-got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew +AD4-chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers +AD4-are pretty funny. +AD4- +AD4-http://www.summitracing.com  and click on Tech to the right then click on Tech +AD4-Test. +AD4-or +AD4-Go here: +AD4-http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm +AD4-and click on tech test.

Response:

First time got a 10 for 10, tried it again and got 9 for 10, tried it again and got 8 for 10…I’d better quit while I’m ahead. Proper fuel pressure for an Edelbrock carb? WTF is a carbuerator Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers are pretty funny. http://www.summitracing.com  and click on Tech to the right then click on Tech Test. or Go here: http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm and click on tech test. Jim 1994 Mustang GT 5 Speed Rio Red http://members.aol.com/stangerize/index/index.html (T-5 is in my bedroom) 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Freshly rebuilt 401 http://members.aol.com/stangerize/Jeep/index.html

Response:

I scored 7 out of 10 my first try and I have never taken an automotive class in my life. Matt ‘89 GT http://mr5oh.stangnet.com http://www.strictly50.org "what I see here is 2 flaming piles of monkey crap being slapped around by a walking $2 slut" The Rock

Response:

First try: Your Score of 6out of 10 makes you a serious Gearhead ! Did you keep going? If you hit new test at the bottom when you get your results they have all new questions. I ran it about 5 or 6 times and got mostly new questions every time. Some were repeats. Jim

Nah, 6 of 10 was quitting while I was ahead. Those cam and displacement formula questions were killing me. I know I don’t know a lot, but that test managed to highlight stuff i’ve never even heard of. FilterX

Response:

I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers are pretty funny.

It’s strange, I got a 10 out of 10, then a 6 out of 10, then a 9 out of 10 it sohuld have been 10 out of 10, I missed what reciprocatign load means DO`H!… some sets seem to be way eaiser than others… Marcus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.summitracing.com  and click on Tech to the right then click on Tech Test. or Go here: http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm and click on tech test. Jim 1994 Mustang GT 5 Speed Rio Red http://members.aol.com/stangerize/index/index.html (T-5 is in my bedroom) 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Freshly rebuilt 401 http://members.aol.com/stangerize/Jeep/index.html

– 68 Mustang has moved 10 feet in ten months, great on gas mileage 91 tow-rus I don’t worry about gas prices, I worry about cheddar prices http://www.geocities.com/fordracing68 *updated* 6-22-00 Before you buy.

Response:

I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers are pretty funny.

10 of 10, first try. Crew Chief! Mark

Response:

Gearhead first time (7 of 10) and CrewCheif second time (10 of 10) — Mike Greene Mike’s Auto Emporium http://home.hiwaay.net/~mgreene http://rocketcitymustang.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers are pretty funny.

Response:

Well, I got 8 out of 10 on the first try and I don’t know jack! Course, I was an automotive engineer in another life. Phil http://www.blueriver.net/~finite/Pony.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers are pretty funny. http://www.summitracing.com  and click on Tech to the right then click on Tech Test. or Go here: http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm and click on tech test. Jim 1994 Mustang GT 5 Speed Rio Red http://members.aol.com/stangerize/index/index.html (T-5 is in my bedroom) 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Freshly rebuilt 401 http://members.aol.com/stangerize/Jeep/index.html

Response:

First try: Your Score of 6out of 10 makes you a serious Gearhead ! And I made a B in Accounting this semester with those same multiple choice skills, go figure.

Did you keep going? If you hit new test at the bottom when you get your results they have all new questions. I ran it about 5 or 6 times and got mostly new questions every time. Some were repeats. Jim 1994 Mustang GT 5 Speed Rio Red http://members.aol.com/stangerize/index/index.html (T-5 is in the shop) 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Freshly rebuilt 401 http://members.aol.com/stangerize/Jeep/index.html

Response:

master mechanic matt here 9 of 10. reread them all and cant figure out whick one i missed?

Response:

9 out of 10,hhhmmmmm got to figure out which one I got wrong…… Yours in Fords, Bill S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers are pretty funny. http://www.summitracing.com  and click on Tech to the right then click on Tech Test. or Go here: http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm and click on tech test. Jim 1994 Mustang GT 5 Speed Rio Red http://members.aol.com/stangerize/index/index.html (T-5 is in my bedroom) 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Freshly rebuilt 401 http://members.aol.com/stangerize/Jeep/index.html

Response:

I took the Tech test on Summit’s website. The first test I scored high enough to clean the windows on a racecar (Squeegee Technician) 5 out of 10 correct. I got a few 7 out of 10s and after a few more tests I scored enough to be crew chief, 10 out of 10 correct. It’s multiple choice and some of the wrong answers are pretty funny. http://www.summitracing.com  and click on Tech to the right then click on Tech Test. or Go here: http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm and click on tech test. Jim 1994 Mustang GT 5 Speed Rio Red http://members.aol.com/stangerize/index/index.html (T-5 is in my bedroom) 1976 Jeep Wagoneer Freshly rebuilt 401 http://members.aol.com/stangerize/Jeep/index.html

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Go here: http://www.summitracing.com/tech/index.htm and click on tech test.

First try: Your Score of 6out of 10 makes you a serious Gearhead ! And I made a B in Accounting this semester with those same multiple choice skills, go figure. FilterX

Response:

Question:

Ok, I’m new to woodworking, and have been fearful of kickbacks… Well I got my first lat night…. I was practicing on my TS, cutting pieces for a picture frame, small one, it happened while making a rabit (sp?) ptoing! right into my index finger, yeouch! Lucky just a sore fingah!  Anyhow the frame looks ok, real basic.  The 45’s are a little off.  I cant affors a good miter gage.

Response:

Can you afford to replace a finger next time ? Get yourself a miter gauge, push block, push sticks, and fence straddler, and use them whenever possible. Steve Decker square-jawed chief engineer of the patternmaking division Ok, I’m new to woodworking, and have been fearful of

kickbacks… Well I got my first lat night…. I was practicing on my TS, cutting pieces for a picture frame, small one, it happened while making a rabit (sp?) ptoing! right into my index finger, yeouch! Lucky just a sore fingah! Anyhow the frame looks ok, real basic.  The 45’s are a little off.  I cant affors a good miter gage.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

This is just a guess, but was the waste of the rabbet being cut between the blade and the fence?  You always want the cutoff to be on the outside of the blade.  (unless you buy some contraption at a woodworking show that promotes it) I am reminded of a Norm episode where he was cutting the waste of a tenon on the inside of a tenoning attachment and came close to losing his ability to have children. Donnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, I’m new to woodworking, and have been fearful of kickbacks… Well I got my first lat night…. I was practicing on my TS, cutting pieces for a picture frame, small one, it happened while making a rabit (sp?) ptoing! right into my index finger, yeouch! Lucky just a sore fingah!  Anyhow the frame looks ok, real basic.  The 45’s are a little off.  I cant affors a good miter gage.

Response:

Lauranmark, Don’t forget Al Taylor’s advice. 1) Know the mechanics of the cut so you understand where the    potential sources of kick back and other hazards are. 2) Compensate for #1 with fixturing and mental preparation before you make your cut Also: 3) It’s generally a bad idea to have the "uncontrolled"    waste from a cut to be between the blade and ANY fixed/stationary    fixture (like the TS fence) 4) That waste piece could’ve been kicked back even if it were not    between the blade and fence, though its far less likely. You should    be aware of this and stay out of the way. 5) Use a 0 clearance insert when rabbetings small pieces on the TS John F. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, I’m new to woodworking, and have been fearful of kickbacks… Well I got my first lat night…. I was practicing on my TS, cutting pieces for a picture frame, small one, it happened while making a rabit (sp?) ptoing! right into my index finger, yeouch! Lucky just a sore fingah!  Anyhow the frame looks ok, real basic.  The 45’s are a little off.  I cant affors a good miter gage.

Response:

This is just a guess, but was the waste of the rabbet being cut between the blade and the fence?  You always want the cutoff to be on the outside of the blade.  (unless you buy some contraption at a woodworking show that promotes it)

One of the first few times I used my TS, I made this mistake and had an 8′ length of 2×2 fly past me with surprising force.  I certainly won’t make that mistake ever again. TIP: Count fingers and toes when entering and leaving the shop. Roy.

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Ok, I’m new to woodworking, and have been fearful of kickbacks… Well I got my first lat night…. I was practicing on my TS, cutting pieces for a picture frame, small one, it happened while making a rabit (sp?) ptoing! right into my index finger, yeouch! Lucky just a sore fingah!  Anyhow the frame looks ok, real basic.  The 45’s are a little off.  I cant affors a good miter gage.

Congratulations???? I had to go get a cold glass of water and sit down. Whew! Where’s a towel, I need to wipe this sweat off my forehead. Sheeeesh! John took the words right out of my mouth.  :  )   But I’m not sure if you can demonstrate correct technique over the internet. Any miter gauge is only as good as it’s setup. I’m outta here….. Al

Response:

As far as the 45 degrees, the only good way is to make a jig which are shown in many TS books.  Even if it is a little off, it is self compensating. A good way to set a miter gauge is with plastic drafting triangles, available at art supply stores.

Response:

I cant affors a good miter gage.

You can afford a relatively cheap plastic 45/45/90 triangle.  It works. Dan.

Response:

Actually, when cutting thin rabbets I prefer to have the cutoff between the blade and fence.  I never stand directly behind the blade.  I prefer that the piece shoot out, rather than lie down next to the blade where it can get picked up and flung in all directions.  My way the piece flies straight back.  Just make sure that you don’t have a window directly behind the saw. I also prefer to have the cutoff on the inside of my Delta tenoning jig for the same reasons.  I’m in production mode and haven’t the time to stop and clear each and every cutoff piece before the next cut.  Mind you, I’m talking about small (1-2" x 3/8") tenon cutoffs, nothing massive. Just my two cents worth. (Still have all 10, but not making anymore children  ) — Sy Kaplan President Black Sheep Woodworks http://www.blacksheepwoodworks.com "Choosing Not To Vote Is No Choice At All"

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i have one of those also, but how accurite can they be…. fine for rough stuff…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cant affors a good miter gage. You can afford a relatively cheap plastic 45/45/90 triangle.  It works. Dan.

Response:

Actually, a good drafting triangle is very accurate. — CW KC7NOD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have one of those also, but how accurite can they be…. fine for rough stuff… I cant affors a good miter gage. You can afford a relatively cheap plastic 45/45/90 triangle.  It works. Dan.

Response:

I was ripping some stock to width for my father-n-law. The pieces we 12-18 inches in length. One was kicked by by the blade and I caught it between the eyes. Luckily I was wearing goggles because they absorbed the impact. I was thinking of getting a full face shield. What do you think? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, I’m new to woodworking, and have been fearful of kickbacks… Well I got my first lat night…. I was practicing on my TS, cutting pieces for a picture frame, small one, it happened while making a rabit (sp?) ptoing! right into my index finger, yeouch! Lucky just a sore fingah!  Anyhow the frame looks ok, real basic.  The 45’s are a little off.  I cant affors a good miter gage.

Response:

Robert, Before you get that face shield make sure your tools and brain are up to snuff: 1) Make sure the tools are properly setup and tuned. 2) Check your technique to eliminate dangerous methods 3) Get a decent guard for the saw I was ripping some stock to width for my father-n-law. The pieces we 12-18 inches in length. One was kicked by by the blade and I caught it between the eyes. Luckily I was wearing goggles because they absorbed the impact. I was thinking of getting a full face shield. What do you think?

John F.

Response:

I was ripping some stock to width for my father-n-law. The pieces we 12-18 inches in length. One was kicked by by the blade and I caught it between the eyes. Luckily I was wearing goggles because they absorbed the impact. I was thinking of getting a full face shield. What do you think?

        I think you should figure out why it got kicked at you and prevent it from happening next time, rather than planning on how to make it hurt less when it does happen.  Kickbacks don’t have to happen, you know. -Jeremy

Response:

I was ripping some stock to width for my father-n-law. The pieces we 12-18 inches in length. One was kicked by by the blade and I caught it between the eyes. Luckily I was wearing goggles because they absorbed the impact. I was thinking of getting a full face shield. What do you think?         I think you should figure out why it got kicked at you and prevent it from happening next time, rather than planning on how to

  … in addition to planning … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – make it hurt less when it does happen.  Kickbacks don’t have to happen, you know. -Jeremy

Response:

I was ripping some stock to width for my father-n-law. The pieces we 12-18 inches in length. One was kicked by by the blade and I caught it between the eyes.

Was Robert ripping freehand without a riving knife (splitter, Murricans) ? If so,  is just asking for a kickback since any significant sideways movement will bring one side or other of the kerf against the uprunning part of the  blade. It is worth bearing in mind that even if a riving knife is fitted, the sawyer is vunerable until the leading edge of the workpiece reaches beyond the back edge of the saw. Riving knives do more than prevent the kerf binding. I find it difficult to understand how people get hit in the face if a guard is fitted. On its upwards journey, the far end of the workpiece should catch the underside of the guard and hopefully be deflected sideways. However there’s no accounting for the ballistics of flat surfaces. Jeff — Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK www.millard.demon.co.uk/Index.htm

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try using the splitter and anti-kick back fingers.if you keep ripping without them i guarantee,eventually, it will happen again.just because ol’norm does not use them does nto mean you should’nt.enjoy woodworking,work safely.  

Response:

Don’t rely on splitters and anti-kick back fingers to keep you safe. You will develop a false sense of security. Use your brain. Think about what you are doing. I am not saying don’t use them if you want to, but kick back normally occurs because of stupidity. Tom Plamann www.plamann.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – try using the splitter and anti-kick back fingers.if you keep ripping without them i guarantee,eventually, it will happen again.just because ol’norm does not use them does nto mean you should’nt.enjoy woodworking,work safely.

Response:

Question:

Please forgive my ignorance in any of the following.  While I know government contract accounting quite well, I am not an accountant.  We are a small (10 person) company.  Our major business involves government contracts.  We used Deltek for many years, but it has become too expensive to justify.  Does any one know of a good package out there which will do job costing, track direct and indirect costs, and be highly auditable. Quickbooks, simply accounting, and the other inexpensive programs that I have looked at just don’t make it.   I also consult for other small companies that are in the government contract arena, so I would really like to find a program in the under $2,000 range, that I can get them set up in.  For the most part, these companies have no inventory and most sales are large, custom made items which are set up as an individual job or contract. Purchasing is usually one off, with little to no recurring purchase orders. Single user licenses are all that is needed. The ability to enter a timesheet with labor charged to a labor account within a contract would be very nice. Overhead and benefit rates are critical, so we need to be able to generate the numbers that will allow us to calculate those rates in a timely manner.   Ideally, I would like a simplified version of Deltek.  Realistically, I want something that will allow me to accrue my costs in a manner that doesn’t call for dozens of work-arounds in order to get my incurred costs and my rates.  GL, AR, AP, PR, Job Cost, would be nice.  Any suggestions? (besides telling me to dream-on….) Thanks in advance Josephine Grahn

Response:

By "auditable" I suppose you need good security with an audit trail. I don’t know of any package in your price range, but we offer a system starting at $5500 (10 modules including Job Cost and Payroll) called UA Corporate Accounting. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick 800-997-7944 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Please forgive my ignorance in any of the following.  While I know government contract accounting quite well, I am not an accountant.  We are a small (10 person) company.  Our major business involves government contracts.  We used Deltek for many years, but it has become too expensive to justify.  Does any one know of a good package out there which will do job costing, track direct and indirect costs, and be highly auditable. Quickbooks, simply accounting, and the other inexpensive programs that I have looked at just don’t make it.   I also consult for other small companies that are in the government contract arena, so I would really like to find a program in the under $2,000 range, that I can get them set up in.  For the most part, these companies have no inventory and most sales are large, custom made items which are set up as an individual job or contract. Purchasing is usually one off, with little to no recurring purchase orders. Single user licenses are all that is needed. The ability to enter a timesheet with labor charged to a labor account within a contract would be very nice. Overhead and benefit rates are critical, so we need to be able to generate the numbers that will allow us to calculate those rates in a timely manner.   Ideally, I would like a simplified version of Deltek.  Realistically, I want something that will allow me to accrue my costs in a manner that doesn’t call for dozens of work-arounds in order to get my incurred costs and my rates.  GL, AR, AP, PR, Job Cost, would be nice.  Any suggestions? (besides telling me to dream-on….) Thanks in advance Josephine Grahn

Response:

Question:

Hi, all… I have a question about who I should invite to the wedding.  I haven’t been working where I’m working for very long.  Maybe about 4 months or so.  There is one lady that I work with that I talk to on a personal level quite often, so I consider her a friend (although we never see each other outside of work) and I will invite her to my wedding.  But there are others that I’m not so sure about.  I wonder if I should invite my boss (who I don’t talk to on a personal level very often) and a guy in another department that, although I don’t talk to him everyday and don’t see him outside of work, when I do have to work with him, we talk on a personal level (about SOs and friends, etc) and joke around and stuff.  I guess the main thing you need to know here is that after the end of August, I won’t be working there anymore.  So do I invite co-workers that, come the wedding day, I no longer work with?  I don’t want to seem like I’m looking for gifts. Thanks, Stef (and Jason, 10/2/99)

Response:

Hi, all… I have a question about who I should invite to the wedding.  I haven’t been working where I’m working for very long.  Maybe about 4 months or so.  There is one lady that I work with that I talk to on a personal level quite often, so I consider her a friend (although we never see each other outside of work) and I will invite her to my wedding.  But there are others that I’m not so sure about.  I wonder if I should invite my boss (who I don’t talk to on a personal level very often) and a guy in another department that, although I don’t talk to him everyday and don’t see him outside of work, when I do have to work with him, we talk on a personal level (about SOs and friends, etc) and joke around and stuff.  I guess the main thing you need to know here is that after the end of August, I won’t be working there anymore.  So do I invite co-workers that, come the wedding day, I no longer work with?  I don’t want to seem like I’m looking for gifts.

If you don’t associate w/a co-worker outside of work, there’s no real reason to invite them to your wedding. After all, a wedding is a pretty personal, emotional event. If a co-worker hasn’t even been over for dinner (or out for drinks/movies or to one of your parties or otherwise joined you in a social, non-work-related occassion), then are they really a close enough of a friend to witness your wedding?  IMO, they’re not.  I’d say the same thing for bosses as for co-workers. The fact that you wonder if you should invite them when you no longer work with them is a big clue that these people are not particularly close friends. They’re work buddies, and it seems that the *only* connection you have to them is thru work. That’s fine — everyone has relationships like that.  But that chummy-ness doesn’t mean they’re good friends who you can share one of the most personally meaningful moments of your life with. Save those places at the table for family and treasured friends! For example, this week, I am leaving a company I’ve been with for over 3yrs.  My wedding is next March.  I will definitely invite about a dozen of these former co-workers to my wedding because we are all friends *outside* of work. We go to each others parties, we house-sit for each other during vacations, we have dinner together frequently, we go camping together, etc. I will certainly see them between now and the wedding, even tho’ we won’t be working together. There are many other people at this company who I’ve been chatty with a great deal, but I’ve never done anything outside of work events with them. So those people aren’t invited (and even if I was not leaving the company, they still wouldn’t be invited). –T. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a.g.f.faq.chick                           gothic martha stewart ebay sales at http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/toreadorbat/

Response:

I have the same problem.  I work for a Insurance Co.  I talk and to everyone and I am friends with everyone.  My problem is my department is all of 3 people.  I ivited my boss and the other women I work with. Theyboth came to my shower.  The other girl I only talk to at work.  The others are I am sending invites to. When I ask for an opion they said I should really invite her.  I don’t want to though.  I only speak to her at work.   The other thing is the other department we are close to.  I eat lunch with them all and at work like them all.  I get along with everyone.  I only want to invite one of them.  Everyone said I can’t invite one without inviing all of them. Our company is very small.  So eeryone will know who went to the wedding or it would come out one day.   I don’t want anyone feeling to be hurt. Should I just invite everone from that department and the other girl in mine. I really don’t think some will come.  I just don’t know what to do thought???   Any advice would be great!!!!  

Response:

Any advice would be great!

Invite who YOU want to invite. Forget what everyone else says. If you weren’t busy opening your mouth to everyone about who to invite and who not to invite, people would be less likely to get their feelings hurt. Ron Ng Knows!

Response:

If you don’t associate w/a co-worker outside of work, there’s no real reason to invite them to your wedding. After all, a wedding is a pretty personal, emotional event. If a co-worker hasn’t even been over for dinner (or out for drinks/movies or to one of your parties or otherwise joined you in a social, non-work-related occassion), then are they really a close enough of a friend to witness your wedding?  IMO, they’re not.  I’d say the same thing for bosses as for co-workers.

        I think this idea of "if you don’t see them outside of work" really needs to be rephrased… If you feel that your relationship with someone who is a co-worker is a social one (rather than one based on your work) then it’s perfectly fine to invite them, even though you don’t necessarily do anything with them outside the office. (For example, when I was a young child, my mother didn’t socialize much with anyone outside office hours, as she didn’t like leaving me with a babysitter. So while she had friends she worked with, she rarely saw them outside of work- with the exception of events like weddings.)         The key is really how close you are to an individual, not what you do or don’t do with them. If you would enjoy having someone at your wedding, invite them. If you won’t, or are only inviting them because you are obliged to, then don’t. (Barring family politics.)         The only thing to keep in mind when inviting people like co-workers, or other members of a larger group, is that you need to be sure to invite them in such a way that other people don’t feel left out. (I.e. don’t spend a lot of time talking about the wedding with this person, bu tnot anyone else; send the invitation to the home, not the office, that sort of thing.) -Kris

Response:

After reading both views on this, I think I have to agree with Kris.  There are 2 people at work that I *want* to invite.  I don’t see either of these people or their SOs outside of work, but not because we don’t want to.  We don’t see them outside of work because they both have small children and don’t have alot of free time.  These are the kind of work friends that when I do have to work with them, we usually end up talking too much about our personal lives and not enough about work.  I guess I just feel guilty about inviting someone that I’m not going to be working with in the future and I’m not sure I will get to see very often because of their schedules. My decision:  I am going to invite them.  They are my friends and I’m sure we will all try to keep in touch after I have left my job.  I am not going to invite my boss.  She has asked me questions about the wedding, but we don’t get very personal, and I definitly won’t keep in touch with her after I leave my job.  As for the other people in my department, they are the same as my boss, so I won’t invite them either.  It is a large enough company that nobody will even notice. Thanks for your views on this!  It really helped me sort it out! Stefani and Jason, 10/2/99

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you don’t associate w/a co-worker outside of work, there’s no real reason to invite them to your wedding. After all, a wedding is a pretty personal, emotional event. If a co-worker hasn’t even been over for dinner (or out for drinks/movies or to one of your parties or otherwise joined you in a social, non-work-related occassion), then are they really a close enough of a friend to witness your wedding?  IMO, they’re not.  I’d say the same thing for bosses as for co-workers. I think this idea of "if you don’t see them outside of work" really needs to be rephrased… If you feel that your relationship with someone who is a co-worker is a social one (rather than one based on your work) then it’s perfectly fine to invite them, even though you don’t necessarily do anything with them outside the office. (For example, when I was a young child, my mother didn’t socialize much with anyone outside office hours, as she didn’t like leaving me with a babysitter. So while she had friends she worked with, she rarely saw them outside of work- with the exception of events like weddings.) The key is really how close you are to an individual, not what you do or don’t do with them. If you would enjoy having someone at your wedding, invite them. If you won’t, or are only inviting them because you are obliged to, then don’t. (Barring family politics.) The only thing to keep in mind when inviting people like co-workers, or other members of a larger group, is that you need to be sure to invite them in such a way that other people don’t feel left out. (I.e. don’t spend a lot of time talking about the wedding with this person, bu tnot anyone else; send the invitation to the home, not the office, that sort of thing.) -Kris

Response:

After reading both views on this, I think I have to agree with Kris.  There are 2 people at work that I *want* to invite.

May I make a suggestion?  If at all possible, mail the invitations to the co-workers’ homes.  Some people could be very hurt and feel left out if you don’t invited them, but they see you hand deliver invitations to only one or two other coworkers in the office.  It would especially be hurtful to the not-invited if they expected you to invite everyone. This happened in an office I worked in years ago.  The bride (very young, her first job, etc).  She talked about the wedding for months and asked our advice, and a few times she even said things like "you guys’ll love what we’re doing". So it’s not odd that everyone expected to be invited.  Lo and behold, a few weeks before the wedding, the bride handed invitations to just a few of us, and then nothing for everyone else standing around almost stunned.  It wasn’t so much that they weren’t invited, but more because of the insensitivity for the bride to deliver the invitations in front of coworkers who were not being invited to the wedding.

Response:

That is a good suggestion.  One of the two people I plan to invite, I will mail it to her home.  She works very closely with others the others in accounting, unlike myself, and although I’m sure they don’t expect an invitation, I would still feel very rude.  The other person I plan to invite, however, works in a whole other department and doesn’t work with anyone I even know (other than saying a happy hello to now and again), so I might just hand deliver that one.  But who knows…  :-) Thanks again for the suggestion. Stefani and Jason, 10/2/99

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After reading both views on this, I think I have to agree with Kris. There are 2 people at work that I *want* to invite. May I make a suggestion?  If at all possible, mail the invitations to the co-workers’ homes.  Some people could be very hurt and feel left out if you don’t invited them, but they see you hand deliver invitations to only one or two other coworkers in the office.  It would especially be hurtful to the not-invited if they expected you to invite everyone. This happened in an office I worked in years ago.  The bride (very young, her first job, etc).  She talked about the wedding for months and asked our advice, and a few times she even said things like "you guys’ll love what we’re doing". So it’s not odd that everyone expected to be invited.  Lo and behold, a few weeks before the wedding, the bride handed invitations to just a few of us, and then nothing for everyone else standing around almost stunned.  It wasn’t so much that they weren’t invited, but more because of the insensitivity for the bride to deliver the invitations in front of coworkers who were not being invited to the wedding.

Response:

I missed the original post, so forgive me if this was already covered! I work in a small office, with four other people.  Mom & Dad are trying to keep our wedding on the small & affordable side.  However, since we have such a close working atmosphere, I should invite all four (plus spouses) to the wedding.  My problem is this – one of my coworkers and I have been on rocky grounds for some time – there is much tension between us that fluctuates – some days everything is normal, while other days she won’t give me the time of day.  I personally would like to not invite her because I don’t want to put up with her pettiness on my special day.  However, I think in order to keep peace in the office and keep me sane in the future, I’m thinking I should just invite her and stick her at a table in the corner and forget she’s there.  Mom thinks I’m nuts to even consider this, however a trusted coworker who knows and agrees with my situation thinks it’s for the best to invite her (even offered to pay their way, which I could never accept). Any feelings on this?  Thanks! Mabster (to Ed 10/23/99) PS – this group is fun!  Glad I stumbled upon you guys before it was too late!

Response:

I would say invite her.  I know how you feel… I wouldn’t want to invite her either, but if everyone else will be invited, that doesn’t leave you much choice unless you just want things to get worse at the office. Stefani and Jason, 10/2/99

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I missed the original post, so forgive me if this was already covered! I work in a small office, with four other people.  Mom & Dad are trying to keep our wedding on the small & affordable side.  However, since we have such a close working atmosphere, I should invite all four (plus spouses) to the wedding.  My problem is this – one of my coworkers and I have been on rocky grounds for some time – there is much tension between us that fluctuates – some days everything is normal, while other days she won’t give me the time of day.  I personally would like to not invite her because I don’t want to put up with her pettiness on my special day.  However, I think in order to keep peace in the office and keep me sane in the future, I’m thinking I should just invite her and stick her at a table in the corner and forget she’s there.  Mom thinks I’m nuts to even consider this, however a trusted coworker who knows and agrees with my situation thinks it’s for the best to invite her (even offered to pay their way, which I could never accept). Any feelings on this?  Thanks! Mabster (to Ed 10/23/99) PS – this group is fun!  Glad I stumbled upon you guys before it was too late!

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I work in a small office, with four other people.  Mom & Dad are trying to keep our wedding on the small & affordable side.  However, since we have such a close working atmosphere, I should invite all four (plus spouses) to the wedding.  My problem is this – one of my coworkers and I have been on rocky grounds for some time – there is much tension between us that fluctuates – some days everything is normal, while other days she won’t give me the time of day.  I personally would like to not invite her because I don’t want to put up with her pettiness on my special day.   (SNIP)

I think you should invite all four or none.  In a larger office, leaving people out wouldn’t be so obvious ("She invited the people she was closest to.") but with four people, it would be a pretty open slight and change "rocky grounds" to open warfare.  I don’t think her pettiness will be evident at the wedding–there will be enough people making a fuss over you so you won’t even know she’s there.  It may even bring about better relations. ("I didn’t think she liked me, but she invited me to her wedding.  She must have some positive feelings toward me") Best wishes, gloria p

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