Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A warning:  do *not* buy this product.  If you’re using an earlier version of Quicken, *DO NOT* upgrade to it. I have a client who uses Quicken 2003.  In order to do his taxes, I had to load Quicken 2003 on my computer at work.  Not only is it cumbersome to use (why do software companies feel compelled to change things that aren’t wrong??????) because it now opens a new window to put reports into, and uses delete instead of close to close reports (you can’t close just one report by clicking on the x anymore, either, that closes all reports you haven open. I am still having trouble getting used to this "feature"), but it somehow interferes with the operating system.  I have been unable to shut down my computer since I loaded this monstrosity.  When I try to shut down in the normal way, it reboots.  If I do control/alt/delete and click shut down…it reboots.  If I wait until it goes dark, and shut off the power before it boots back up – boy does my computer not like that!  Most of the time, it won’t boot back up, it freezes when it tries to load Explorer.  What was really fun was today when I came back from lunch to find that it had somehow managed to crash my screen saver – something I have *never* seen before. This is a computer I have had almost no problems with, other than a difficulty in getting Microsoft Works to communicate with my printer.  It very rarely freezes up, even though I’m still using Win 98.  It almost never crashes (except when I try to multitask a few to many tasks .  But now all of a sudden I can’t get through the day without it freezing up or crashing, and the only way to shut it down at night is to either shut it off, or do a control/alt/delete after windows starts to come up when it reboots, and I better have the timing right if I do the latter – too soon, and it just reboots again. What’s more, there are two other people in my office using Quickbooks 2003 for their clients – and having similar problems, especially with shutting down the computer – and one of them has the newest version of Windows, so I don’t think it’s the age of my operating system that’s at fault here. I can’t wait to finish this guy’s taxes and get that thing uninstalled.  I just hope that solves the problem!

I’m using QB2003 Contractor’s edition on Windows Xp. I agree it is not worth the ‘upgrade’ price. But I do not experience the problems you have. My system works fine. I can close individual reports by clicking on the x. I have no software/hardware conflicts. I also do not recommend purchasing QB… or any Intuit product at this moment. Intuit has instituted a ’sunset’ policy wherein they cripple older versions of QB by removing the ability to do payroll. Currently, QB2001 will no longer be able to do payroll in April 2004. On the alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks newsgroup there is an additional post from ‘ken’ in the UK, who was given notice that his version of QB2002 will not work after March 10, 2004. For purchasers who bought the software late in the release year, that is a use life of 15 months. If you are not already using QB, seriously consider a different accounting package! Frequent forced upgrades add up quickly if you are using multi-license and/or Pro/Premier versions. A $3000 – $5000 accounting package, specific to your business, could wind up being cheaper — especially if the package includes support and is not made obsolete in less than 3 years.

Response:

A warning:  do *not* buy this product.  If you’re using an earlier version of Quicken, *DO NOT* upgrade to it. I have a client who uses Quicken 2003.  In order to do his taxes, I had to load Quicken 2003 on my computer at work.  Not only is it cumbersome to use (why do software companies feel compelled to change things that aren’t wrong??????) because it now opens a new window to put reports into, and uses delete instead of close to close reports (you can’t close just one report by clicking on the x anymore, either, that closes all reports you haven open. I am still having trouble getting used to this "feature"), but it somehow interferes with the operating system.  I have been unable to shut down my computer since I loaded this monstrosity.  When I try to shut down in the normal way, it reboots.  If I do control/alt/delete and click shut down…it reboots.  If I wait until it goes dark, and shut off the power before it boots back up – boy does my computer not like that!  Most of the time, it won’t boot back up, it freezes when it tries to load Explorer.  What was really fun was today when I came back from lunch to find that it had somehow managed to crash my screen saver – something I have *never* seen before. This is a computer I have had almost no problems with, other than a difficulty in getting Microsoft Works to communicate with my printer.  It very rarely freezes up, even though I’m still using Win 98.  It almost never crashes (except when I try to multitask a few to many tasks .  But now all of a sudden I can’t get through the day without it freezing up or crashing, and the only way to shut it down at night is to either shut it off, or do a control/alt/delete after windows starts to come up when it reboots, and I better have the timing right if I do the latter – too soon, and it just reboots again. What’s more, there are two other people in my office using Quickbooks 2003 for their clients – and having similar problems, especially with shutting down the computer – and one of them has the newest version of Windows, so I don’t think it’s the age of my operating system that’s at fault here. I can’t wait to finish this guy’s taxes and get that thing uninstalled.  I just hope that solves the problem! — "Lord, when we are wrong, make us willing to change.  And when we are right, make us easy to live with."  Peter Marshall

Response:

if you do your own payroll you should consider the consequences of the quickbooks "sunset" policy,   At one time peachtree allowed editing of the payroll tax tables so you didn’t have to upgrade every year but i don’t know if the current version still allows this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also do not recommend purchasing QB… or any Intuit product at this moment. Intuit has instituted a ’sunset’ policy wherein they cripple older versions of QB by removing the ability to do payroll. Currently, QB2001 will no longer be able to do payroll in April 2004. On the alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks newsgroup there is an additional post from ‘ken’ in the UK, who was given notice that his version of QB2002 will not work after March 10, 2004. For purchasers who bought the software late in the release year, that is a use life of 15 months. If you are not already using QB, seriously consider a different accounting package! Frequent forced upgrades add up quickly if you are using multi-license and/or Pro/Premier versions. A $3000 – $5000 accounting package, specific to your business, could wind up being cheaper — especially if the package includes support and is not made obsolete in less than 3 years.

Response:

Question:

The NV4500 has trouble behind the standard Cummins engine (5th gear comes off and the main shaft breaks if the engine is "turned up") and is not strong enough to stand up to the high-output (HO) Cummins or the Duramax.  I was told that GMC uses a Getrag transmission, the same as Ford.  It is a sturdy transmission, but rather clunky to shift.  The clutch on the Ford is very stiff, I don’t know about the GMC.  Dodge’s clutch is very light in comparison.

Dodge used the Getrags clear up untill ‘93 I believe, and this tranny was certainly strong enough in my ‘90 Cummins.  It stood up behind it even after putting in bigger injectors, bigger turbo housing, and turning up the pump slightly. — Tony Kimmell Normal, IL "I think that’s how Chicago got started.  A bunch of people in New York said, Gee, I’m enjoying the crime and the poverty, but it just isn’t cold enough. Let’s go west.’" -Richard Jeni

Response:

One mistake in the below: For 2003 the Dodge/Cummins has been upgraded to common-rail fuel injection and should get better fuel economy than my truck, while having more power, less noise, and less pollution.  The GMC/Isuzu (Duramax) already has common-rail, accounting for its ability to get decent fuel economy inspite of having an automatic transmission. The NV4500 has trouble behind the standard Cummins engine (5th gear comes off and the main shaft breaks if the engine is "turned up") and is not strong enough to stand up to the high-output (HO) Cummins or the Duramax.  I was told that GMC uses a Getrag transmission, the same as Ford.  It is a sturdy transmission, but rather clunky to shift.  The clutch on the Ford is very stiff, I don’t know about the GMC.  Dodge’s clutch is very light in comparison.  The Dodge comes with an option for a NV5600 6spd transmission, which is what I have.  IIRC, I’ve been told the following numbers NV4600: max torque 460 ft-lbs NV5600: max torque 560 ft-lbs Getrag (5spd?): max torque 540 ft-lbs For whatever reason the NV5600 has a cast iron case, making it exceptionally heavy.  I was told that it weighs in at 450lbs (about the same as a V10 engine), compared to the NV4500 at 250lbs. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just curious here about your comment to avoid the GMC/manual combo. I thought GM was using the same NV4500HD (the 5 speed manual) that has been quite reliable behind the Cummins, just with different gear ratios. Or did they change behind the new Duramax?  Bad clutches mabey? My 2000 Dodge-Cummins 2500 4×4 Quad Cab long bed 6spd with 3.54 gears gets 20mpg empty at 65mph and 14mpg with my Bigfoot 1500 camper on it, also at 65mph.  If I slow down to 55mph with the camper on, the mileage jumps to 15.5mpg.  If I speed up to 70mph, it drops to 12.5mpg.  All numbers at mild summer temps and near sea level. Get a diesel, performance and mileage relative to a gas engine get better with altitude.  Mileage will be a bit worse if you get a dually, and a bit worse again if you get the Ford-Navistar rather than GMC or Dodge. Automatics make things worse still; but the GMC-Isuzu/auto combination seems to get about the same fuel economy as the Dodge-Cummins/manual combination (the Ford-Navistar gets worse fuel economy than either).  You don’t want the GMC/manual or the Dodge/auto combinations; both have problems (hard to shift and unreliable, respectively). If you are picky about such things, be aware that you need a one-ton dually to carry most self contained slide in campers and stay under the GVWR. The extra 500lbs associated with a diesel engine makes this worse.  The 2003 Dodge dually has the highest GVWR, now at 12000lbs. —

Response:

Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed.   I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work.   Any experience you guys could/would share? Thanks in advance, Pat

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed. I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work. Any experience you guys could/would share? Thanks in advance, Pat

My experience is gas, around 12 MPG, Diesel around 18-20MPG. My newest one is an ‘84 though, so current mileage’s may be higher. As for the camper it will haul it better than a 1/2 ton would, the stronger springs and larger, higher ply tires make it more stable. I personally run 10 ply tires and air them up to 80 PSI when I haul my camper, tried it with 8 plies at 65 one year and it was not nearly as stable as normal. Also my interstate fuel mileage was cut in half when I had the camper on, the extra wind resistance at high speed is murder. My next slide in will be a pop-up for that reason. Good luck.

Response:

Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed.   I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work.   Any experience you guys could/would share? Thanks in advance, the weight rating of a truck has little to do with the gas mileage, you can get a durango or a  ram 1500, 2500 or a 3500 with a 360, say they all have the same gear ratio and tires and options, the mileage will vary little, they all will be bad, such is life with a full size truck, with just about any full size truck with a gas motor, if you get 15mpg on a good day then your doing good, my v-10 gets 10-12mpg on good days, which actually is sometimes better than my friend gets with his 360 durango,  the cummins is by far much better on mileage, almost double in some cases, but the trade off if the initial extra cost up front, if you plan on using a slide in camper, you will most certainly need a 2500 or 3500, those things can be quite heavy 79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg(well, it sure seems that way!) 00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4×4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg 98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just curious here about your comment to avoid the GMC/manual combo. I thought GM was using the same NV4500HD (the 5 speed manual) that has been quite reliable behind the Cummins, just with different gear ratios. Or did they change behind the new Duramax?  Bad clutches mabey? My 2000 Dodge-Cummins 2500 4×4 Quad Cab long bed 6spd with 3.54 gears gets 20mpg empty at 65mph and 14mpg with my Bigfoot 1500 camper on it, also at 65mph.  If I slow down to 55mph with the camper on, the mileage jumps to 15.5mpg.  If I speed up to 70mph, it drops to 12.5mpg.  All numbers at mild summer temps and near sea level. Get a diesel, performance and mileage relative to a gas engine get better with altitude.  Mileage will be a bit worse if you get a dually, and a bit worse again if you get the Ford-Navistar rather than GMC or Dodge. Automatics make things worse still; but the GMC-Isuzu/auto combination seems to get about the same fuel economy as the Dodge-Cummins/manual combination (the Ford-Navistar gets worse fuel economy than either).  You don’t want the GMC/manual or the Dodge/auto combinations; both have problems (hard to shift and unreliable, respectively). If you are picky about such things, be aware that you need a one-ton dually to carry most self contained slide in campers and stay under the GVWR. The extra 500lbs associated with a diesel engine makes this worse.  The 2003 Dodge dually has the highest GVWR, now at 12000lbs. —

As I understand it the Dodge Cummins with Manual Trans has a 6 speed manual.  The shared trans is a 5 speed and isn’t quite as tough as the Dodge 6 speed version.  Off the top of my head it’s the 6500 and not the 4500 but I could be wrong on the number.  The poster reccomending the auto has this newer transmission.

Response:

just curious here about your comment to avoid the GMC/manual combo. I thought GM was using the same NV4500HD (the 5 speed manual) that has been quite reliable behind the Cummins, just with different gear ratios. Or did they change behind the new Duramax?  Bad clutches mabey?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 2000 Dodge-Cummins 2500 4×4 Quad Cab long bed 6spd with 3.54 gears gets 20mpg empty at 65mph and 14mpg with my Bigfoot 1500 camper on it, also at 65mph.  If I slow down to 55mph with the camper on, the mileage jumps to 15.5mpg.  If I speed up to 70mph, it drops to 12.5mpg.  All numbers at mild summer temps and near sea level. Get a diesel, performance and mileage relative to a gas engine get better with altitude.  Mileage will be a bit worse if you get a dually, and a bit worse again if you get the Ford-Navistar rather than GMC or Dodge. Automatics make things worse still; but the GMC-Isuzu/auto combination seems to get about the same fuel economy as the Dodge-Cummins/manual combination (the Ford-Navistar gets worse fuel economy than either).  You don’t want the GMC/manual or the Dodge/auto combinations; both have problems (hard to shift and unreliable, respectively). If you are picky about such things, be aware that you need a one-ton dually to carry most self contained slide in campers and stay under the GVWR. The extra 500lbs associated with a diesel engine makes this worse.  The 2003 Dodge dually has the highest GVWR, now at 12000lbs. —

Response:

You must be driving that SD downhill.  I drive an F-350 SD, V-10 and the best it gets is 11 hwy and 6 in town. ANd that is not towing anything.

Do you have an auto or 6sp?   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed. I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work. I live down in Durango and have a 2002 Ford SuperDuty F250 Lariat 4×4 crewcab, shortbed with the V10, 6sp, and 4.30’s and have been getting about 14.5-15mpg empty and about 10-12 towing my 23′ boat (heavier cuddy cabin with a big block).  Much better than I thought I would get!  YMMV. Dale Anderson Durango, Colorado

Dale Anderson Durango, Colorado

Response:

My 2000 Dodge-Cummins 2500 4×4 Quad Cab long bed 6spd with 3.54 gears gets 20mpg empty at 65mph and 14mpg with my Bigfoot 1500 camper on it, also at 65mph.  If I slow down to 55mph with the camper on, the mileage jumps to 15.5mpg.  If I speed up to 70mph, it drops to 12.5mpg.  All numbers at mild summer temps and near sea level. Get a diesel, performance and mileage relative to a gas engine get better with altitude.  Mileage will be a bit worse if you get a dually, and a bit worse again if you get the Ford-Navistar rather than GMC or Dodge. Automatics make things worse still; but the GMC-Isuzu/auto combination seems to get about the same fuel economy as the Dodge-Cummins/manual combination (the Ford-Navistar gets worse fuel economy than either).  You don’t want the GMC/manual or the Dodge/auto combinations; both have problems (hard to shift and unreliable, respectively). If you are picky about such things, be aware that you need a one-ton dually to carry most self contained slide in campers and stay under the GVWR.  The extra 500lbs associated with a diesel engine makes this worse.  The 2003 Dodge dually has the highest GVWR, now at 12000lbs. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You must be driving that SD downhill.  I drive an F-350 SD, V-10 and the best it gets is 11 hwy and 6 in town. ANd that is not towing anything. Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed. I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work. I live down in Durango and have a 2002 Ford SuperDuty F250 Lariat 4×4 crewcab, shortbed with the V10, 6sp, and 4.30’s and have been getting about 14.5-15mpg empty and about 10-12 towing my 23′ boat (heavier cuddy cabin with a big block).  Much better than I thought I would get!  YMMV. Dale Anderson Durango, Colorado

Response:

You must be driving that SD downhill.  I drive an F-350 SD, V-10 and the best it gets is 11 hwy and 6 in town. ANd that is not towing anything.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed. I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work. I live down in Durango and have a 2002 Ford SuperDuty F250 Lariat 4×4 crewcab, shortbed with the V10, 6sp, and 4.30’s and have been getting about 14.5-15mpg empty and about 10-12 towing my 23′ boat (heavier cuddy cabin with a big block).  Much better than I thought I would get!  YMMV. Dale Anderson Durango, Colorado

Response:

I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  

My 3/4 ton Dodge truck gets between 18 and 21 mpg.  It is a Cummins Turbodiesel which is remarkably reliable, runs long and hard between maintenance stops, and sounds wonderful. Pickup truck mileage varies tremedously on several factors including driving style, mechanical specifications, terrain, 2 or 4 WD, and so forth.   Your mileage will vary, but 3/4 ton pickup trucks are great! -steve — Steven B. Cousineau,  http://www.scrye.com/~steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed.   I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work.   Any experience you guys could/would share? Thanks in advance, Pat

The biggest thing affecting your milage will be your gear ratios.  If you buy it with lower towing gears you will never get the high end of the milage’s people have given you.  Your motor has to be in it’s efficient zone for the best highway mpg.  To two your motor needs the lower gears to tow effictivly.  It’s a trade off.  If you only pull an occasional camper get highway gears.  If all you will ever do is pull a boat and lug your camper go with the towing gears.  It doesn’t hurt to have supercooling no matter what gears you get.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed.   I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work.   Any experience you guys could/would share? Thanks in advance, Pat

    You’ll definitely need the 3/4 ton chassis for that slide in camper.   The chassis rating has nothing to do with gas mileage – that depends on engine size/efficiency, gearing, tire size, etc.      On that note, for high mountain passes and heavy loads, you’ll need to plant a lot of power to the ground.  Displacement should be around 350 cubes.  Manual transmission would be better.  And at least a 3.90 rear gear.      My Dakota does great up the passes.  Denver to Frisco at 75+ mph without a problem (empty).  Moderate loads are definitely noticed, but not a strain.  I just have to downshift a little sooner.  Just wish I could have gotten the stick shift with the 5.9. — ‘97 FXDWG – Turbocharged! ‘01 Dakota Quad Cab 5.9/Auto/4×4 ‘66 Mustang Coup ‘66 Shelby Cobra Replica – Project ‘84 GMC Jimmy – Mountain Beater

Response:

Hi, I’m thinking about getting a truck and have some questions about mileage.  I live in Colorado and want to go over the various passes in the winter.  Also want to occasionally put a "slide-in" camper in the bed. I hear that a 3/4 ton would be better with the camper, but I’m not sure how much difference the mileage would be.  My feeling is that a 3/4 ton’s mileage would be bad enough to where I wouldn’t want to ride the truck to work.

I live down in Durango and have a 2002 Ford SuperDuty F250 Lariat 4×4 crewcab, shortbed with the V10, 6sp, and 4.30’s and have been getting about 14.5-15mpg empty and about 10-12 towing my 23′ boat (heavier cuddy cabin with a big block).  Much better than I thought I would get!  YMMV. Dale Anderson Durango, Colorado

Response:

Question:

Traditional accounting called for separation of the duties of writing checks and making deposits from that of reconciling the checking accounts. Current software, such as QuickBooks, provide reconciliation reports that would seem to make the separation unnecessary.  This seems especially true when another person signs the checks. Do you agree?  Would a review of the reconciliation report by another person suffice as an alternative? Would that even be necessary?

Response:

<< Traditional accounting called for separation of the duties of writing checks and making deposits from that of reconciling the checking accounts. Current software, such as QuickBooks, provide reconciliation reports that would seem to make the separation unnecessary.  This seems especially true when another person signs the checks. Do you agree?  Would a review of the reconciliation report by another person suffice as an alternative? Would that even be necessary? Would that it were so. It is still important that someone other than the person entering day-to-day information in a company’s QB file be the one to do the reconciliation. Not that you shouldn’t trust the bookkeeper, but you also want to maintain a work milieu that protects the bookkeeper from suspicion if embezzlement is discovered. The best way to do that is to have the owner or manager of the company receive bank statements at home, and reconcile the bank statements to the QB file. This function should be password-protected so that no other employee can access it. The reconciliation report can be precise, and still there could be theft of company cash through such devices as changing the payee or the amount on the check, or setting up dummy companies to which checks are made. Tom –Solving your tax and business problems with Professional Service…Personal Attention Web: http://www.tomhealycpa.com

Response:

Traditional accounting called for separation of the duties of writing checks and making deposits from that of reconciling the checking accounts. Current software, such as QuickBooks, provide reconciliation reports that would seem to make the separation unnecessary.  This seems especially true when another person signs the checks. Do you agree?

I absolutely do not agree. Would a review of the reconciliation report by another person suffice as an alternative? Would that even be necessary?

I did an article for publication in a Chamber of Commerce publication on this topic recently.  The URL is http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/share-the-work.html. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

I own a medium sized business.  I don’t do the daily bookkeeping entries.  I am the only one who reconciles the accounts.  I wouldn’t trust anyone else to do it, and certainly not the person making the daily entries. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Traditional accounting called for separation of the duties of writing checks and making deposits from that of reconciling the checking accounts. Current software, such as QuickBooks, provide reconciliation reports that would seem to make the separation unnecessary.  This seems especially true when another person signs the checks. Do you agree?  Would a review of the reconciliation report by another person suffice as an alternative? Would that even be necessary?

Response:

If I have check signing authority, one of the things I would insist on is that I examine the returned checks to be sure that I in fact signed all those checks and that my name was not forged by someone else in the organization.  As a matter of fact, I would want to be the one to open the bank statements.  That function should never be left with the one who prints the checks.  Simply reconciling the checking accounts does not provide enough internal security to prevent fraud.  Even a third party reviewing the reconciler’s working papers does not address the issue of whether there were any unauthorized checks signed (or forged). Lorin Browning – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Traditional accounting called for separation of the duties of writing checks and making deposits from that of reconciling the checking accounts. Current software, such as QuickBooks, provide reconciliation reports that would seem to make the separation unnecessary.  This seems especially true when another person signs the checks. Do you agree?  Would a review of the reconciliation report by another person suffice as an alternative? Would that even be necessary?

  lorinbrowning.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

 Traditional accounting called for separation of  the duties of writing checks and making deposits  from that of reconciling the checking accounts.  Current software, such as QuickBooks, provide  reconciliation reports that would seem to make  the separation unnecessary.  This seems especially  true when another person signs the checks.  Do you agree?  Would a review of the reconciliation  report by another person suffice as an alternative?  Would that even be necessary?

The general rule concerning separation of duties is something like: In respect of any material asset different persons should have: 1. physical custody 2. power of use and / or disposal 3. record keeping duties The pervasive cost/benefit restraint applys. In this case, the "asset" is accounting data. IMHO automation and informatisation of the accounting function have materially increased risks of fraud and irregularities, e. g. due to erosion of separation of duties. All coins have two sides. Jim Hudspeth’s article is to the point and short enough to be quoted:    REDUCING THE RISK OF THEFT IN SMALL ORGANIZATIONS    Two executive directors of small non-profits have approached    me recently asking for advice regarding internal controls.    Specifically, they were concerned about preventing the    theft of cash from their respective organizations.    Traditional internal accounting controls largely hinge    on separating duties in such a way that the work of one    person efficiently validates the work of another. Internal    accounting controls also limit the ability of any one person    to control a transaction in its entirety. As an example, an    accounting clerk prepares a list of payables from records    of purchases, receipts, and vendor billing, another clerk    prepares checks for signature, a custodian (treasurer) then    reviews and signs the checks, and yet another clerk mails    the checks to the recipients. In terms of fraud deterrence,    it is very important that the clerk mailing the checks not    be the same clerk that prepared them. In order for this    particular procedure to be effective, we need at least    four people involved in the disbursement process.    This is a great procedure for organizations large enough to    use it. It doesn’t work at all in small organizations for    a reason that should be obvious – not enough people. Very    few small organizations have four people available every    time they need to write checks.    It is well known among fraud professionals that fraud is a    major contributor to the failure of small organizations. It    is also commonly know by fraud professionals that small    organizations are highly unlikely to recognize this fact    and deal with it in a proactive manner. Fraud professionals    commonly believe that this is due primarily to denial;    that small business people are overly trusting, naively    believing that fraud happens "to someone else".    I do not entirely agree.    In my opinion, people in small organizations are just as    aware of the consequences of fraud as people in larger    organizations; they just don’t have effective tools with    which to combat it. Further, due to this lack of tools,    people in small organizations either ignore the problem    or become paranoid and sometimes paralyzed.    I believe there is a better way.    Instead of thinking in terms of hierarchical controls,    think in terms of sharing the work. Fraud creeps in when    one person hoards the work. Sharing not only decreases    fraud probabilities, it makes for a more efficient and    congenial workplace.    As an example, let us assume a small non-profit with an    executive director and a board of directors. In such    organizations the checks are commonly prepared by the    executive director, signed by an officer of the board, and    returned to the executive director for distribution. The    bank statement is mailed to the office where the executive    director reconciles it. The executive director is in    complete control. Other than personal integrity, there is    nothing to deter this executive director from stealing. In    some cases the executive director, possibly an accounting    illiterate, has a clerk assistant who does the work. In    this case the accounting assistant is in control.    With two small no cost changes we can eliminate most of    the problem. First, instead of returning the checks to the    executive director for distribution, the officer of the    board could distribute them. In most cases this amounts to    putting checks in pre-addressed envelopes and dropping them    in the nearest mailbox. Second, with the approval of the    board, the bank statement can be mailed by the bank directly    to the home of the check-signing officer of the board. At a    minimum the officer of the board should peruse the statement    and checks for obvious discrepancies before turning it    over to the executive director for reconciliation. If a    clerk assistant is doing the actual work, the executive    director should also review the work from time to time.    Assuming a minimum of goodwill and civility, these two    small changes should result in a more secure arrangement    with no additional cost or loss of efficiency. Fraud could    still happen, but is less probable. Also, if it does happen    it is more likely to be detected.    The above is an example only. The idea is to intelligently    share duties in such a way as to enhance security without    incurring excess cost or impairing the office function." A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

I agree with Jim. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Traditional accounting called for separation of the duties of writing checks and making deposits from that of reconciling the checking accounts. Current software, such as QuickBooks, provide reconciliation reports that would seem to make the separation unnecessary.  This seems especially true when another person signs the checks. Do you agree? I absolutely do not agree. Would a review of the reconciliation report by another person suffice as an alternative? Would that even be necessary? I did an article for publication in a Chamber of Commerce publication on this topic recently.  The URL is http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/share-the-work.html. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Do you agree?  Would a review of the reconciliation report by another person suffice as an alternative? Would that even be necessary?

There are numerous ways to "game" that system that would not be detected if the same person could control the entries into the system and then got control of the bank statement and performed the reconciliation on the back end. First and foremost, you are assuming that the bank is going to be diligent in assuring that only checks signed by an authorized signator are deposited into accounts, and that they only allow checks to be deposited that are made out to the specific vendor.  Banks are very likely to be somewhat less than fully reliable on either count. Second, you are assuming the check in question wasn’t altered after it was signed. Third, you also ignore the fact that there are transactions other than deposits and checks that will hit the bank statement.  Your method allows the person doing the inputs to be "creative" in the descriptions for such transactions. And there are multiple other issues that are made a lot easier if the embezzler can limit the number of people with access to the bank statement. Remember the bank statement is prepared by an outside entity and, for that reason, offers "higher quality" evidence than you would obtain by looking at wholly internally generated documents (where someone with fraudulent intent has a better chance of "fixing" the documentation). Now, of course, if the person doing the reconcilation has no idea *why* he/she has been given that job (the control functions it provides), then we may have another problem.  But that’s for another thread…

Response:

Thank you all for your replies.  I am convinced that it is necessary to get that separation. Thank you again. Al

Response:

Ed Zollars There are numerous ways to "game" that system that would not be detected if the same person could control the entries into the system and then got control of the bank statement and performed the reconciliation on the back end.

Things get MUCH simpler if encryption techniques and digital signatures can be used. First and foremost, you are assuming that the bank is going to be diligent in assuring that only checks signed by an authorized signator are deposited into accounts, and that they only allow checks to be deposited that are made out to the specific vendor.  Banks are very likely to be somewhat less than fully reliable on either count.

Consider that theoretically, if you have created a digital payment with a digital signature, banks become almost totally automated, and the error rate would be negligible. Someday we will have a personal signing device; these are not really very far away.   We would have had them years ago but for some cultural and economic issues.  The cultural issue is we all want privacy, we want specific and granular control over who we disclose any particular information to.  The economic issue is no companies seem to provide anything that gives that power to the individual…   Anyway I’ll refer you to one solution in this direction. http://www.mobiletransaction.org  –look at account based transactions, in which literally anybody can submit any contract to the cellphone or other device, and the owner can affix their digital signature.    This is like, someday, you will point to things, input your PIN, and press a button to sign the transaction or batch of transactions. Second, you are assuming the check in question wasn’t altered after it was signed. Third, you also ignore the fact that there are transactions other than deposits and checks that will hit the bank statement.  Your method allows the person doing the inputs to be "creative" in the descriptions for such transactions.

Oh how much simpler this will all be, when the culture in America gets more familiar with encryption, signatures etc.   When people know what they want, there will be a sufficient market for the devices that give individuals the powers they really want and need. And there are multiple other issues that are made a lot easier if the embezzler can limit the number of people with access to the bank statement. Remember the bank statement is prepared by an outside entity and, for that reason, offers "higher quality" evidence than you would obtain by looking at wholly internally generated documents (where someone with fraudulent intent has a better chance of "fixing" the documentation). Now, of course, if the person doing the reconcilation has no idea *why* he/she has been given that job (the control functions it provides), then we may have another problem.  But that’s for another thread…

Welllll in the long run, you want systems that achieve the objectives of separation of duties, without the manual labor.. I’m sure you agree with that, I’m just stating it for the record, Todd

Response:

(big snip)  Welllll in the long run, you want systems that achieve the objectives  of separation of duties, without the manual labor.. I’m sure you  agree with that, I’m just stating it for the record,

Todd, I may be mistaken but my impression is that IT euphoria may be over. Businesses may start to sober up from their IT hangovers, a painful experience indeed. Putting digital signatures etc. in place solves no control issues but simple pushes them from the scope of "normal" audits to "information systems" audits, which, incidentally, are generally much more expensive and time consuming. The major flaw of IT euphoria is precisely having ignored and / or materially underemphasized cost / benefit. Based on cost / benefit it would still make good business sense in many situations NOT to automate. One clear conclusion would appear to be: open source only for all data encryption and digital signature applications. How do you otherwise hope to verify that there are no back doors? A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

(big snip)  Welllll in the long run, you want systems that achieve the objectives  of separation of duties, without the manual labor.. I’m sure you  agree with that, I’m just stating it for the record, Todd, I may be mistaken but my impression is that IT euphoria may be over. Businesses may start to sober up from their IT hangovers, a painful experience indeed.

This seems to reveal a pessimistic attitude or preconception, regarding the usefulness of automation more than anything else. If you look at computer magazines from the past 10 years there are always about an equal number of pages, saying "IT expenditures will decline" as going up.  IT is so huge now it is part of the infrastructure, it is perennial, in large enterprises.  So, yes, you’re mistaken.   My observation is, in Enterprise there was never any euphoria, and there isn’t really much of an IT cycle.  There is just continual, rapid evolution.  There were mainframes, then minis, then PCs then client server then the internet… Nobody with experience in this business is euphoric.  They’re tired as hell, and they are pursued by the hounds of ever-improving hardware and software.  Nobody has any rest. If you stop, your competition wins. Putting digital signatures etc. in place solves no control issues but simple pushes them from the scope of "normal" audits to "information systems" audits, which, incidentally, are generally much more expensive and time consuming.

Where can I begin to untangle this comment?!  It has combined a number of issues into a dense amalgam. The bottom line is, contrary to your conclusion, digital signatures will reduce audit costs as well as the costs of routine transaction execution. This is somewhat tautological since no digital signature, or other authentication or encryption technology, will be adopted very much unless it gives substantial cost/benefit advantage. Please bear in mind, all computer security is based on encryption. TO say that authentication or encryption are not cost effective would be to say, all of todays mainframes, minis, LANs, and internet mail, websites etc. are all making a mistake and should go back to classic separation of duties or something. All I’m saying is, that computerized authentication is coming down lower and lower into the environment, and will be technically just as strong as mainframe security.  SSL logins to web pages are one example of an encryption technology that establishes a secure pipeline of encrypted data across the link. They do it easily, with no labor cost.  Now, we need the same thing for authenticating the PERSON and why wasn’t it built into the browser in 1996?  Answer: because Microsoft wanted to sell us the Passport service and get a chokehold on commerce. They have been trying to get a chokehold on commerce and particularly, the directory or registry of information, since the early 1990s. So please understand, Lucien, there is a lot at stake. The major flaw of IT euphoria is precisely having ignored and / or materially underemphasized cost / benefit. Based on cost / benefit it would still make good business sense in many situations NOT to automate.

I totally agree.  In fact, I work hard on it every day.   Today, we still have the right to buy and sell with paper currency, otherwise, EVERYTHING would be through computers! My view is, we should have exactly the same rights with a handheld device, to pay and receive directly to/from other people without going thru any bank, or incurring any fee whatsoever.  Here for example is a digital cash issuance I have been doing some work for. http://www.gldialtone.com/dbcTrustModel.htm The appeal of digital cash to me, is getting the benefits of automation when you need that (i.e. embedded in an order, invoice etc. to improve bookkeeping for AR/AP or inventory). You cannot get much automation of dealings with consumers without digital payments solutions. But most people won’t deal electronically until they are allowed to use digital cash without being molested by hustlers in the software industry like Microsoft invading their privacy, or ignoramuses in the government inspecting their finances.   The government in particular, seems focused on the impossible goal of regulating money at the level of the $20 bill. IN all these years they still haven’t stopped the laundering of $1 trillion of drug money, annually thru the banking system.  The only thing they have accomplished is making ordinary business much more inefficient. One clear conclusion would appear to be: open source only for all data encryption and digital signature applications. How do you otherwise hope to verify that there are no back doors? A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA

Your last paragraph is indeed, the correct conclusion and is universally agreed in the encryption community, as well as almost totally, in the security industry generally.  For a consultant to sell any closed-source security solutions is just the same thing as saying, "Trust all the developers who worked on this product, or at least, trust this vendor to have a failsafe system to ensure nobody could put in a back door."   Obviously, that’s never going to fly in the international standards for e-business such as digital signatures. Todd

Response:

Question:

Greetings      I am looking for accounting mailing lists.  ANyone know of any? Regards Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Tosh  wrote      I am looking for accounting mailing lists.        ANyone know of any?

For what?  Are you looking for accounting firms?  Or potential clients who may need accounting services? For accounting firms, visit the national associations and state associations (AICPA, NAA, NAEA, etc.) For potential clients, there are a multitude of mail lists for sale on new and existing businesses. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia

Response:

Question:

Hi, I started running about a month ago on new treadmill my parents bought, and I’m just wondering if there is any running software available?  Some kind of software that you might input amount of time run into or distance, and it will give you some stats and information on improvement.  I read one of the previous posts that there is some type of software that comes with the heart rate wrist monitors.  Can anyone tell me anything about this.  Thanks. Leth —

Response:

I just got the Runmaster training series from RoadRunnerSports.  It is a nice logbook and nutrition database, however I would recommend only getting one of the training modules 5 or 10 k 1/2 or marathon as they are rather inflexible and limit you to an 8 week program.  I was VERY disappointed about this. ed

Response:

I am a complete idiot.  I would like to apologize to the nice folks at Runmaster and Road Runner Sports.  If I would have read the material more closely I would have seen that the software actually does VERY COMPREHENSIVE scheduling taking into account a number of variables.  PLEASE DISREGARD the negative aspects of the preceding post.  Again I apologize for opening my mouth before I fully understood the program. ed

Response:

Leth Try this http://www.swift-cs.com/TrainingStudio/Default.htm)

Response:

Thanks Mark and Ed. Leth Try this http://www.swift-cs.com/TrainingStudio/Default.htm)

–

Response:

Try this site  < http://www.PegasusSoftware.com   Hi, I started running about a month ago on new treadmill my parents bought, and I’m just wondering if there is any running software available?  Some kind of software that you might input amount of time Leth

 Denny Anderson  To ERR is human… to ZIN, divine!

Response:

I am also using Run Master and like it very much. You may also want to try The Athlete’s Diary , http://www.stevenscreek.com/ I don’t think it has traing plans but it is great for logging info.  Randy

Response:

Leth, Have you tried RunNotes? It’s available at http://www.portoweb.com.br/pessoal/runnotes/english.htm Best regards. Joao Campos Hi, I started running about a month ago on new treadmill my parents bought, and I’m just wondering if there is any running software available?  Some kind of software that you might input amount of time run into or distance, and it will give you some stats and information on improvement.  I read one of the previous posts that there is some type of software that comes with the heart rate wrist monitors.  Can anyone tell me anything about this.  Thanks. Leth —

Response:

try www.runmaster.com Hi, I started running about a month ago on new treadmill my parents bought, and I’m just wondering if there is any running software available?  Some kind of software that you might input amount of time run into or distance, and it will give you some stats and information on improvement.  I read one of the previous posts that there is some type of software that comes with the heart rate wrist monitors.  Can anyone tell me anything about this.  Thanks. Leth —

Response:

You might just want to set something up yourself in Word or Works, Excel… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am also using Run Master and like it very much. You may also want to try The Athlete’s Diary , http://www.stevenscreek.com/ I don’t think it has traing plans but it is great for logging info. Randy

Response:

You might just want to set something up yourself in Word or Works, Excel… I am also using Run Master and like it very much. You may also want to try The Athlete’s Diary , http://www.stevenscreek.com/ I don’t think it has traing plans but it is great for logging info. Randy

Check out the running software links at the Runner’s Web. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site. Voting Booth:www.runnersweb.com/running/rw_vote.html

Response:

                     Wouter Gerritsma  —   O             Wageningen Agricultural University   —  <^_            Department of Agronomy  –  /             Tropical Crop Science Section  —                Haarweg 333 / P.O.box 341                      6700 AH Wageningen          —   O     The Netherlands           —  <^_        —-  /     Telephone: +31 (0)8370 83081      ——-        Telefax  : +31 (0)8370 84575                      E-mail   : Citizen Gerritsma, Sigh, a complicated set of aspersions …

Question:

Readers may need to take a lesson from this. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS MAINTAIN A SERIES OF BACKUPS — I recommend a total of 12 daily backup tapes/disks.  One is used daily, and on the fifth day of the week, you take one home (and bring one back from home).  Repeat the series on new tapes the next week.  Then have one or two more for end of month. This procedure eliminates or minimizes the risk that database corruption will propagate throughout your backups before it becomes noticable. As to your network, Lantastic is a fairly stable product; however, there is absolutely no reason to be using it now.  You’ll be much better off with Windows networking using TCP/IP.  DO NOT USE NETBEUI, as the error detection and correction is inferior to TCP/IP. Just my 2c, from having installed many, many, many networks. David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike….what a horror story!  We’ve almost had the same series of problems, but for us it was Platinum for Windows.  Needless to say, my company is now comtemplating switching to another accounting program. Our company used Peachtree for the last four or so years. While their software works fine on a single computer, if you use it on a network you’re in BIG trouble. When you call them and tell them that the data is corrupt, or that it brings your network down, they tell you that Peachtree is very sensitive to the actual network software and hardware. They wanted us to change our Lantastic network, W95, the NICs, the CAT5 cable etc., after their database became corrupt. Not only did it become corrupt, it actually let us work with it, sticking in data for two weeks before we found out. During those two weeks it let us overwrite our daily backups because we didn’t know there was a problem, so we had to go back a month in our backups. It took two or three weeks just to get the database straightened out after that. A lot of expensive time lost – and a heck of a lot of stress at our company. We ended up losing the bookkepper we’d had for the last four or five years, and a person we hired just to input data – to say nothing of not being able to keep track of our financial stuff during this time. Peachtree said they were going to refund all of the support money we spent over this, and offered to refund the purchase price of the software. Right. Thanks. The LAST thing I wanted to do was find a new accounting program, I just wanted it fixed. At first, I thought it was us – and our network – even though we were having NO problems with any of the other sophisticated automation we do on the network (everything is 100% computerized here, and we take and ship over 100 orders a day). Then I just happened to go to a vendor’s office, and heard EXACTLY the same story – but they were using Peachtree on NT and W98. A totally different configuration. They lost two months. Then I looked on deja.com, and saw other posts with EXACTLY the same situation – but different network configurations… Added new person(s) to input data over their network, and all hell broke loose. Look for yourself – I’m sure it’s still there. It’s the same ugly (and expensive) story every time. I’m sure most people believe Peachtree when they tell them that their network is screwed up – after all, they are professionals and "nobody else is having that problem" (but they still say that their software is very sensitive to the network software and hardware, AS SOON as you start talking about corrupt data in their database). It’s pretty sad when a company’s financial data isn’t safe, and the software manufacturer has absolutely no concern. They just tell you that your network is screwed up, even though every other software product works fine on your network. A consultant recommended Businessworks (another Sage product – Sage owns about half the companies doing accounting software at this point) after this fiasco, so we downloaded the demo. We installed it on the bookkeeper’s PC, so she could evaluate it. Trouble is, Peachtree wouldn’t run after installing it. We finally found the file that Businessworks overwrote, and restored it. When I tried to delete Businessworks, there was no un-install. What fun. Thanks Sage. Really professional. To get us going, I put Peachtree on the bookkeeper’s PC, and had both employees share it. More fun. It stopped crashing and worked fine, but you can imagine that two people using one PC is a little stressful. As an added benefit, our network stopped crashing. We had been running Peachtree with the data on our server for years. The only thing we were sure of is that it would bring our server down if we tried to close a year through the network, so we transferred all the files to the bookkeeper’s PC to do that once a year. It’s amazing what you get used to! Since taking the data off, our W95 server just doesn’t crash any more! We actually have to reboot the server every once in a while, since eventually W95 IS going to crash by itself. It’s better to happen when we want it to. With the Peachtree data on the server, it would crash at least once a day. After asking Peachtree every which way to fix their database problems, and being told there’s nothing wrong with their software and that we’re the only one having the problem, we are contemplating a law suit. We’ve got the proof that they we’re not the only ones, and facts win law suits. Sage seems to be rather experienced in this respect, but it’s not with software they wrote – it’s with software at companies they aquired (somebody must be a real genius there). The money and time we’ve lost is nothing compared to the stress. We downloaded or bought just about every demo out there for a company our size, and found it pretty grim. Some of these programs would be funny, if they weren’t so sad. Some of the companies would come up with a lame excuse when I asked them about obvious bugs or slowness, and some of them basically said "that’s the way it works." Of course, eliminating any Sage owned software certainly does limit the playing field – to the point that I’d think that there were some anti-trust issues there. I spent hundreds of hours researching a new accounting package, and MYOB was the best of the inexpensive ones we checked out – but not flexible enough for our company even if it could handle the transactions on the network. MYOB was recommended by one of our vendors, who’s an engineer and has been using it for years for his small company (on a Mac). I think MYOB uses Btrieve, like Peachtree. The difference seems to be that MYOB does a built-in integrity check every day. I could live with losing a days worth of data, as long as that was it. Some of the software out there gets real expensive when it’s sold by companies that do nothing but sell and support that kind of software for a living. We’ve decided to do our new installation ourselves (we have a full time MIS person). So far, it’s going fine. I decided on DBA Software for our company (it does a lot more than we need but it seemed like the best choice), which uses a Pervasive SQL database. Pervasive is the company that bought Btrieve from Novell. It seems OK, but I guess I won’t know for a while. DBA comes with source code, and uses Crystal Report Writer to do custom reports – an important item to us. We should have all the data in it and start using it soon. I called some of the references that DBA gave, and they all talked in glowing terms about it. We took a two day class on the software. I’m pretty scared, though! There’s only so much time in a year. Good luck… Mike Sandman What’s better: Peachtree or Business Works From what I’ve seen Peachtree has a lot more enhancements and user friendliness.  BUT, I don’t know much about Business Works.  Please give your thoughts and share your knowledge. Thanks Mike Sandman  630-980-7710 WWW:  http://www.sandman.com Our 112 page catalog of Unique Telecom Products & Tools is on the World Wide Web. We have a fantastic assortment of Cable Installation Tools and Training Videos to help you use them. NEW "Basic ISDN", "Intro to T1" and Fiber Optic/CAT 5 Training Videos are now available. Also check out our Telephony History Page, which contains ads and articles from telephony related magazines from the first part of the century.

Response:

Holy Crap! I would drop PT in a second. I have used and modified SBT Extensivly.  My current job has me working with CYMA <sp and both are rock solid stable.  End of discussion.  Take the refund from PT and invest it in other software. Another thing.  Never use a WIN95 box as your server.  Upgrade it to NT workstation, or NT server.  I only use NT, and I love WIN2000 for easier P&Pray issues. Your backups should be spread across 15+ tapes.  Even so, your time before you found out about your problem was too late.  (15 tapes is 3 weeks) __Stephen Russell

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our company used Peachtree for the last four or so years. While their software works fine on a single computer, if you use it on a network you’re in BIG trouble. When you call them and tell them that the data is corrupt, or that it brings your network down, they tell you that Peachtree is very sensitive to the actual network software and hardware. They wanted us to change our Lantastic network, W95, the NICs, the CAT5 cable etc., after their database became corrupt. Not only did it become corrupt, it actually let us work with it, sticking in data for two weeks before we found out. During those two weeks it let us overwrite our daily backups because we didn’t know there was a problem, so we had to go back a month in our backups. It took two or three weeks just to get the database straightened out after that. A lot of expensive time lost – and a heck of a lot of stress at our company. We ended up losing the bookkepper we’d had for the last four or five years, and a person we hired just to input data – to say nothing of not being able to keep track of our financial stuff during this time. Peachtree said they were going to refund all of the support money we spent over this, and offered to refund the purchase price of the software. Right. Thanks. The LAST thing I wanted to do was find a new accounting program, I just wanted it fixed. At first, I thought it was us – and our network – even though we were having NO problems with any of the other sophisticated automation we do on the network (everything is 100% computerized here, and we take and ship over 100 orders a day). Then I just happened to go to a vendor’s office, and heard EXACTLY the same story – but they were using Peachtree on NT and W98. A totally different configuration. They lost two months. Then I looked on deja.com, and saw other posts with EXACTLY the same situation – but different network configurations… Added new person(s) to input data over their network, and all hell broke loose. Look for yourself – I’m sure it’s still there. It’s the same ugly (and expensive) story every time. I’m sure most people believe Peachtree when they tell them that their network is screwed up – after all, they are professionals and "nobody else is having that problem" (but they still say that their software is very sensitive to the network software and hardware, AS SOON as you start talking about corrupt data in their database). It’s pretty sad when a company’s financial data isn’t safe, and the software manufacturer has absolutely no concern. They just tell you that your network is screwed up, even though every other software product works fine on your network. A consultant recommended Businessworks (another Sage product – Sage owns about half the companies doing accounting software at this point) after this fiasco, so we downloaded the demo. We installed it on the bookkeeper’s PC, so she could evaluate it. Trouble is, Peachtree wouldn’t run after installing it. We finally found the file that Businessworks overwrote, and restored it. When I tried to delete Businessworks, there was no un-install. What fun. Thanks Sage. Really professional. To get us going, I put Peachtree on the bookkeeper’s PC, and had both employees share it. More fun. It stopped crashing and worked fine, but you can imagine that two people using one PC is a little stressful. As an added benefit, our network stopped crashing. We had been running Peachtree with the data on our server for years. The only thing we were sure of is that it would bring our server down if we tried to close a year through the network, so we transferred all the files to the bookkeeper’s PC to do that once a year. It’s amazing what you get used to! Since taking the data off, our W95 server just doesn’t crash any more! We actually have to reboot the server every once in a while, since eventually W95 IS going to crash by itself. It’s better to happen when we want it to. With the Peachtree data on the server, it would crash at least once a day. After asking Peachtree every which way to fix their database problems, and being told there’s nothing wrong with their software and that we’re the only one having the problem, we are contemplating a law suit. We’ve got the proof that they we’re not the only ones, and facts win law suits. Sage seems to be rather experienced in this respect, but it’s not with software they wrote – it’s with software at companies they aquired (somebody must be a real genius there). The money and time we’ve lost is nothing compared to the stress. We downloaded or bought just about every demo out there for a company our size, and found it pretty grim. Some of these programs would be funny, if they weren’t so sad. Some of the companies would come up with a lame excuse when I asked them about obvious bugs or slowness, and some of them basically said "that’s the way it works." Of course, eliminating any Sage owned software certainly does limit the playing field – to the point that I’d think that there were some anti-trust issues there. I spent hundreds of hours researching a new accounting package, and MYOB was the best of the inexpensive ones we checked out – but not flexible enough for our company even if it could handle the transactions on the network. MYOB was recommended by one of our vendors, who’s an engineer and has been using it for years for his small company (on a Mac). I think MYOB uses Btrieve, like Peachtree. The difference seems to be that MYOB does a built-in integrity check every day. I could live with losing a days worth of data, as long as that was it. Some of the software out there gets real expensive when it’s sold by companies that do nothing but sell and support that kind of software for a living. We’ve decided to do our new installation ourselves (we have a full time MIS person). So far, it’s going fine. I decided on DBA Software for our company (it does a lot more than we need but it seemed like the best choice), which uses a Pervasive SQL database. Pervasive is the company that bought Btrieve from Novell. It seems OK, but I guess I won’t know for a while. DBA comes with source code, and uses Crystal Report Writer to do custom reports – an important item to us. We should have all the data in it and start using it soon. I called some of the references that DBA gave, and they all talked in glowing terms about it. We took a two day class on the software. I’m pretty scared, though! There’s only so much time in a year. Good luck… Mike Sandman What’s better: Peachtree or Business Works From what I’ve seen Peachtree has a lot more enhancements and user friendliness.  BUT, I don’t know much about Business Works.  Please give your thoughts and share your knowledge. Thanks Mike Sandman  630-980-7710 WWW:  http://www.sandman.com Our 112 page catalog of Unique Telecom Products & Tools is on the World Wide Web. We have a fantastic assortment of Cable Installation Tools and Training Videos to help you use them. NEW "Basic ISDN", "Intro to T1" and Fiber Optic/CAT 5 Training Videos are now available. Also check out our Telephony History Page, which contains ads and articles from telephony related magazines from the first part of the century.

Response:

I wanted your opinion of the software programs, not you telling me what I think.  Yes, my first impression of Business Works is less flattering than my experience with Peachtree, but that doesn’t mean I have made up my to select Peachtree. To be honest, I want whichever is the better product.  I realize each program has advantages and disadvantages over the other. I want to know if anyone has experience with the two programs, and if so what do you dislike (or like) about each of them in relation to the other (Peachtree or Business Works).

Response:

Mike….what a horror story!  We’ve almost had the same series of problems, but for us it was Platinum for Windows.  Needless to say, my company is now comtemplating switching to another accounting program.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our company used Peachtree for the last four or so years. While their software works fine on a single computer, if you use it on a network you’re in BIG trouble. When you call them and tell them that the data is corrupt, or that it brings your network down, they tell you that Peachtree is very sensitive to the actual network software and hardware. They wanted us to change our Lantastic network, W95, the NICs, the CAT5 cable etc., after their database became corrupt. Not only did it become corrupt, it actually let us work with it, sticking in data for two weeks before we found out. During those two weeks it let us overwrite our daily backups because we didn’t know there was a problem, so we had to go back a month in our backups. It took two or three weeks just to get the database straightened out after that. A lot of expensive time lost – and a heck of a lot of stress at our company. We ended up losing the bookkepper we’d had for the last four or five years, and a person we hired just to input data – to say nothing of not being able to keep track of our financial stuff during this time. Peachtree said they were going to refund all of the support money we spent over this, and offered to refund the purchase price of the software. Right. Thanks. The LAST thing I wanted to do was find a new accounting program, I just wanted it fixed. At first, I thought it was us – and our network – even though we were having NO problems with any of the other sophisticated automation we do on the network (everything is 100% computerized here, and we take and ship over 100 orders a day). Then I just happened to go to a vendor’s office, and heard EXACTLY the same story – but they were using Peachtree on NT and W98. A totally different configuration. They lost two months. Then I looked on deja.com, and saw other posts with EXACTLY the same situation – but different network configurations… Added new person(s) to input data over their network, and all hell broke loose. Look for yourself – I’m sure it’s still there. It’s the same ugly (and expensive) story every time. I’m sure most people believe Peachtree when they tell them that their network is screwed up – after all, they are professionals and "nobody else is having that problem" (but they still say that their software is very sensitive to the network software and hardware, AS SOON as you start talking about corrupt data in their database). It’s pretty sad when a company’s financial data isn’t safe, and the software manufacturer has absolutely no concern. They just tell you that your network is screwed up, even though every other software product works fine on your network. A consultant recommended Businessworks (another Sage product – Sage owns about half the companies doing accounting software at this point) after this fiasco, so we downloaded the demo. We installed it on the bookkeeper’s PC, so she could evaluate it. Trouble is, Peachtree wouldn’t run after installing it. We finally found the file that Businessworks overwrote, and restored it. When I tried to delete Businessworks, there was no un-install. What fun. Thanks Sage. Really professional. To get us going, I put Peachtree on the bookkeeper’s PC, and had both employees share it. More fun. It stopped crashing and worked fine, but you can imagine that two people using one PC is a little stressful. As an added benefit, our network stopped crashing. We had been running Peachtree with the data on our server for years. The only thing we were sure of is that it would bring our server down if we tried to close a year through the network, so we transferred all the files to the bookkeeper’s PC to do that once a year. It’s amazing what you get used to! Since taking the data off, our W95 server just doesn’t crash any more! We actually have to reboot the server every once in a while, since eventually W95 IS going to crash by itself. It’s better to happen when we want it to. With the Peachtree data on the server, it would crash at least once a day. After asking Peachtree every which way to fix their database problems, and being told there’s nothing wrong with their software and that we’re the only one having the problem, we are contemplating a law suit. We’ve got the proof that they we’re not the only ones, and facts win law suits. Sage seems to be rather experienced in this respect, but it’s not with software they wrote – it’s with software at companies they aquired (somebody must be a real genius there). The money and time we’ve lost is nothing compared to the stress. We downloaded or bought just about every demo out there for a company our size, and found it pretty grim. Some of these programs would be funny, if they weren’t so sad. Some of the companies would come up with a lame excuse when I asked them about obvious bugs or slowness, and some of them basically said "that’s the way it works." Of course, eliminating any Sage owned software certainly does limit the playing field – to the point that I’d think that there were some anti-trust issues there. I spent hundreds of hours researching a new accounting package, and MYOB was the best of the inexpensive ones we checked out – but not flexible enough for our company even if it could handle the transactions on the network. MYOB was recommended by one of our vendors, who’s an engineer and has been using it for years for his small company (on a Mac). I think MYOB uses Btrieve, like Peachtree. The difference seems to be that MYOB does a built-in integrity check every day. I could live with losing a days worth of data, as long as that was it. Some of the software out there gets real expensive when it’s sold by companies that do nothing but sell and support that kind of software for a living. We’ve decided to do our new installation ourselves (we have a full time MIS person). So far, it’s going fine. I decided on DBA Software for our company (it does a lot more than we need but it seemed like the best choice), which uses a Pervasive SQL database. Pervasive is the company that bought Btrieve from Novell. It seems OK, but I guess I won’t know for a while. DBA comes with source code, and uses Crystal Report Writer to do custom reports – an important item to us. We should have all the data in it and start using it soon. I called some of the references that DBA gave, and they all talked in glowing terms about it. We took a two day class on the software. I’m pretty scared, though! There’s only so much time in a year. Good luck… Mike Sandman What’s better: Peachtree or Business Works From what I’ve seen Peachtree has a lot more enhancements and user friendliness.  BUT, I don’t know much about Business Works.  Please give your thoughts and share your knowledge. Thanks Mike Sandman  630-980-7710 WWW:  http://www.sandman.com Our 112 page catalog of Unique Telecom Products & Tools is on the World Wide Web. We have a fantastic assortment of Cable Installation Tools and Training Videos to help you use them. NEW "Basic ISDN", "Intro to T1" and Fiber Optic/CAT 5 Training Videos are now available. Also check out our Telephony History Page, which contains ads and articles from telephony related magazines from the first part of the century.

Response:

Our company used Peachtree for the last four or so years. While their software works fine on a single computer, if you use it on a network you’re in BIG trouble. When you call them and tell them that the data is corrupt, or that it brings your network down, they tell you that Peachtree is very sensitive to the actual network software and hardware. They wanted us to change our Lantastic network, W95, the NICs, the CAT5 cable etc., after their database became corrupt. Not only did it become corrupt, it actually let us work with it, sticking in data for two weeks before we found out. During those two weeks it let us overwrite our daily backups because we didn’t know there was a problem, so we had to go back a month in our backups. It took two or three weeks just to get the database straightened out after that. A lot of expensive time lost – and a heck of a lot of stress at our company. We ended up losing the bookkepper we’d had for the last four or five years, and a person we hired just to input data – to say nothing of not being able to keep track of our financial stuff during this time. Peachtree said they were going to refund all of the support money we spent over this, and offered to refund the purchase price of the software. Right. Thanks. The LAST thing I wanted to do was find a new accounting program, I just wanted it fixed. At first, I thought it was us – and our network – even though we were having NO problems with any of the other sophisticated automation we do on the network (everything is 100% computerized here, and we take and ship over 100 orders a day). Then I just happened to go to a vendor’s office, and heard EXACTLY the same story – but they were using Peachtree on NT and W98. A totally different configuration. They lost two months. Then I looked on deja.com, and saw other posts with EXACTLY the same situation – but different network configurations… Added new person(s) to input data over their network, and all hell broke loose. Look for yourself – I’m sure it’s still there. It’s the same ugly (and expensive) story every time. I’m sure most people believe Peachtree when they tell them that their network is screwed up – after all, they are professionals and "nobody else is having that problem" (but they still say that their software is very sensitive to the network software and hardware, AS SOON as you start talking about corrupt data in their database). It’s pretty sad when a company’s financial data isn’t safe, and the software manufacturer has absolutely no concern. They just tell you that your network is screwed up, even though every other software product works fine on your network. A consultant recommended Businessworks (another Sage product – Sage owns about half the companies doing accounting software at this point) after this fiasco, so we downloaded the demo. We installed it on the bookkeeper’s PC, so she could evaluate it. Trouble is, Peachtree wouldn’t run after installing it. We finally found the file that Businessworks overwrote, and restored it. When I tried to delete Businessworks, there was no un-install. What fun. Thanks Sage. Really professional. To get us going, I put Peachtree on the bookkeeper’s PC, and had both employees share it. More fun. It stopped crashing and worked fine, but you can imagine that two people using one PC is a little stressful. As an added benefit, our network stopped crashing. We had been running Peachtree with the data on our server for years. The only thing we were sure of is that it would bring our server down if we tried to close a year through the network, so we transferred all the files to the bookkeeper’s PC to do that once a year. It’s amazing what you get used to! Since taking the data off, our W95 server just doesn’t crash any more! We actually have to reboot the server every once in a while, since eventually W95 IS going to crash by itself. It’s better to happen when we want it to. With the Peachtree data on the server, it would crash at least once a day. After asking Peachtree every which way to fix their database problems, and being told there’s nothing wrong with their software and that we’re the only one having the problem, we are contemplating a law suit. We’ve got the proof that they we’re not the only ones, and facts win law suits. Sage seems to be rather experienced in this respect, but it’s not with software they wrote – it’s with software at companies they aquired (somebody must be a real genius there). The money and time we’ve lost is nothing compared to the stress. We downloaded or bought just about every demo out there for a company our size, and found it pretty grim. Some of these programs would be funny, if they weren’t so sad. Some of the companies would come up with a lame excuse when I asked them about obvious bugs or slowness, and some of them basically said "that’s the way it works." Of course, eliminating any Sage owned software certainly does limit the playing field – to the point that I’d think that there were some anti-trust issues there. I spent hundreds of hours researching a new accounting package, and MYOB was the best of the inexpensive ones we checked out – but not flexible enough for our company even if it could handle the transactions on the network. MYOB was recommended by one of our vendors, who’s an engineer and has been using it for years for his small company (on a Mac). I think MYOB uses Btrieve, like Peachtree. The difference seems to be that MYOB does a built-in integrity check every day. I could live with losing a days worth of data, as long as that was it. Some of the software out there gets real expensive when it’s sold by companies that do nothing but sell and support that kind of software for a living. We’ve decided to do our new installation ourselves (we have a full time MIS person). So far, it’s going fine. I decided on DBA Software for our company (it does a lot more than we need but it seemed like the best choice), which uses a Pervasive SQL database. Pervasive is the company that bought Btrieve from Novell. It seems OK, but I guess I won’t know for a while. DBA comes with source code, and uses Crystal Report Writer to do custom reports – an important item to us. We should have all the data in it and start using it soon. I called some of the references that DBA gave, and they all talked in glowing terms about it. We took a two day class on the software. I’m pretty scared, though! There’s only so much time in a year. Good luck… Mike Sandman What’s better: Peachtree or Business Works From what I’ve seen Peachtree has a lot more enhancements and user friendliness.  BUT, I don’t know much about Business Works.  Please give your thoughts and share your knowledge. Thanks

Mike Sandman  630-980-7710 WWW:  http://www.sandman.com Our 112 page catalog of Unique Telecom Products & Tools is on the World Wide Web. We have a fantastic assortment of Cable Installation Tools and Training Videos to help you use them. NEW "Basic ISDN",   "Intro to T1" and Fiber Optic/CAT 5 Training Videos are now available. Also check out our Telephony History Page, which contains ads and articles from telephony related magazines from the first part of the century.

Response:

Great response!!!

Opinionated but there it is! Also, what do you dislike about either of these programs… One thing that I noticed about Business Works is that its reports leave a lot of space on the page creating a need to use a lot more paper.  Of course, you can download an ASCII file and import it to Excel, but it seems like Peachtree reports are a lot easier to format, as well as export to Excel.

You know more about these two programs than you let on initially. Another thing as I have been told is that once a transaction is posted in Business Works it cannot be changed…unless you make a correcting journal entry.  Once a period is closed it cannot be reopened…unless you do a prior period adjustment.  That is good for internal control but Peachtree’s audit trail feature keeps track of changes while allowing the user to correct mistakes easier and cleaner. And Peachtree also allows you to restrict access to these types of transactions to authorized users only so at least you have choices.  Anyway that can be a plus or a minus depending on your point of view, but I’d like to given the option so I can decide which feature suits my needs best.

You chave already talked yourself into Peachtree. Another thing that I seemed to find better in Peachtree is it’s ability to drill down into transactions while viewing most of the reports.  It didn’t seem like it was as easy to do from the Business Works demo I saw.

OK, so you just became an AccountCare Partner and you are trying out a few sales tecniques on the rest of us. What are your thoughts?

My thought is that if Sage keeps buying up companies it it wont matter what accounting system we buy we’ll still be part of the "Sage Family". P.S. Big shocker: Sage just mailed an advertising piece for MAS90 to all the customer base of Peachtree.  Where is the logic in that?

Response:

I am planning to use it for a small business –  approximately 25-50 transactions per day.  I am a CPA and I have done a lot of Quickbooks, Peachtree and a few Dynamics installations and setups.  I saw a demo of Business Works conducted by a reseller. My first impression of it was that it had fewer features than Peachtree did, but I could be wrong. I want to know if anybody here has used both programs recently, and what they liked or disliked about each one. Is Business Works considered a better product?  If so,why? If I like Peachtree, what do you think I would dislike about Business Works? (and vice versa) Hope this helps.

Response:

Great response!!! Also, what do you dislike about either of these programs… One thing that I noticed about Business Works is that its reports leave a lot of space on the page creating a need to use a lot more paper.  Of course, you can download an ASCII file and import it to Excel, but it seems like Peachtree reports are a lot easier to format, as well as export to Excel. Another thing as I have been told is that once a transaction is posted in Business Works it cannot be changed…unless you make a correcting journal entry.  Once a period is closed it cannot be reopened…unless you do a prior period adjustment.  That is good for internal control but Peachtree’s audit trail feature keeps track of changes while allowing the user to correct mistakes easier and cleaner. And Peachtree also allows you to restrict access to these types of transactions to authorized users only so at least you have choices.  Anyway that can be a plus or a minus depending on your point of view, but I’d like to given the option so I can decide which feature suits my needs best. Another thing that I seemed to find better in Peachtree is it’s ability to drill down into transactions while viewing most of the reports.  It didn’t seem like it was as easy to do from the Business Works demo I saw. What are your thoughts?

Response:

What’s better: Peachtree or Business Works From what I’ve seen Peachtree has a lot more enhancements and user friendliness.  BUT, I don’t know much about Business Works.  Please give your thoughts and share your knowledge. Thanks

Response:

The question to be asked first is:  What are you planning on doing with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s better: Peachtree or Business Works From what I’ve seen Peachtree has a lot more enhancements and user friendliness.  BUT, I don’t know much about Business Works.  Please give your thoughts and share your knowledge. Thanks

Response:

I have both Peachtree 7.0.0.3 and Business Works installed at my workstation.  Business Works allows an unlimited number of "Ship To’s", Peachtree allows 10 per client ID. The accrual setup for vacation and sick time is easier to do in Business Works. These are the only major difference that comes to mind but eliminates Peachtree if you ship to many stores (for example) and bill to only one corporate entity.  Otherwise Peachtree is much more intuitive, cleaner interface generally easier to reach the full potential of the program. I’ve noticed that accountants who "consult" on computerized accounting solutions favor Business Works, but that makes me think that is because it generates more consulting fees. "For our particular application" the bottom line (excuse the pun) is Peachtree.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s better: Peachtree or Business Works From what I’ve seen Peachtree has a lot more enhancements and user friendliness.  BUT, I don’t know much about Business Works.  Please give your thoughts and share your knowledge. Thanks

Response:

Question:

I have no idea! Anyone know the answer to that one? Kim ?Does it give you the option of having two different files?  Most low-end accounting software, such as quicken or quickbooks will let you, maybe your i

Fabrics2U – Buy 10 patterns, get one free! Want to be on my monthly sales list? <http://members.aol.com/fabrics2u/index.html

Response:

Has anyone used Access to do an inventory. I have been reading about the report limitations of these program. Couldn’t you just use Access so that you could design your own reports? Shawn "I’ve been Star Trekking through the Twilight Zone…" X / USA / H2 / Y6 / 2C / XHB / 0 / -X / PS / G-G / -W+ / All / M / B / R? / S / K/KC / ++E++

Response:

Has anyone used Access to do an inventory. I have been reading about the report limitations of these program. Couldn’t you just use Access so that you could design your own reports? Shawn

That’s what I used.  I like it . Anne/NC E-mail response not expected but E-mail back delete the ".uk" at the end

Response:

I’m thinking of installing a second one for my personal stash – can I do that? I’ve never tried to install the same program twice. I’d hate to save my personal stash to the second version and find out that the first version had lost all my shop inventory. Oh, there is also a new "sorter" in the books/magazines/chart section. It allows you to sort items any way you like. (I put hardanger in as a section so when I want a hardanger pattern, I just use the find under hardanger) Kim Fabrics2U – Buy 10 patterns, get one free! Want to be on my monthly sales list? <http://members.aol.com/fabrics2u/index.html

Does it give you the option of having two different files?  Most low-end accounting software, such as quicken or quickbooks will let you, maybe your inventory program will as well.  That would save a lot of space on your hard drive if it did! Charly

Response:

I think that you cn install it twice using different names, eg.  my stash- store stash.  Not quite positive.  But i did have two pattern viewers, by mistake one and two. Lisa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -snip I LOVE it! I use it to track my shop inventory and don’t know what I’d do without it. I’m thinking of installing a second one for my personal stash – can I do that? I’ve never tried to install the same program twice. I’d hate to save my personal stash to the second version and find out that the first version had lost all my shop inventory. Kim

Response:

I think that you cn install it twice using different names, eg.  my stash- store stash.  

Thanks, I had another lady say the same thing. I think I’ll give it a try. Just what I need, more hours at the computer entering stash! Kim Fabrics2U – Buy 10 patterns, get one free! Want to be on my monthly sales list? <http://members.aol.com/fabrics2u/index.html

Response:

Has anyone used the Organized Expressions software for needleworks? Version 2.0 sounds like it would have everything you need to keep organized. I would have quite a backlog to enter but I think it would be worth it to be able to easily find that "apple" pattern when I want one.   Joyce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snipped) So, in light of DH’s astute observations, is your stash-tracking software really worth the overhead of entering your charts and supplies? -<snip

Response:

Has anyone used the Organized Expressions software for needleworks? Version 2.0 sounds like it would have everything you need to keep or

I LOVE it! I use it to track my shop inventory and don’t know what I’d do without it. I’m thinking of installing a second one for my personal stash – can I do that? I’ve never tried to install the same program twice. I’d hate to save my personal stash to the second version and find out that the first version had lost all my shop inventory. Oh, there is also a new "sorter" in the books/magazines/chart section. It allows you to sort items any way you like. (I put hardanger in as a section so when I want a hardanger pattern, I just use the find under hardanger) Kim Fabrics2U – Buy 10 patterns, get one free! Want to be on my monthly sales list? <http://members.aol.com/fabrics2u/index.html

Response:

I used FoxPro (a dbase program) to organize it all when I found myself buying the same leaflets again, and sometimes again!

You can also use your word processor, too.  I have about four years’ worth of magazine articles listed in Word for Windows. Each line lists the article title/content, issue, page #, and coding, all sorted according to coding.  Most everyone already has a word processor, so this saves the expenditure of purchasing more software, and saves on disk space. Sherry C

Response:

Glad you brought this up – whenever anyone has raised the subject before I`ve thought "PLEASE – get a LIFE – just go look in the drawer!!!" LOL (whine) but Paaaat—-I have to look in the drawer, and the cupboard, and the bookcase, and that magazine holder, and the accordion file, and the bag with some of the threads in it and the thread organizer and the book my husband threw stuff in last summer and (you get the picture) Dawne, whose software, if she had it, would be much more organized than her home

LOL! The leaflet/magazine stash is *definetly* more organized than my home!  I used FoxPro (a dbase program) to organize it all when I found myself buying the same leaflets again, and sometimes again!  The mere activity of listing each chart in each magazine and leaflet by subject, designer, location (ie. which looseleaf binder it was in) helped to set them all more firmly in my mind. Adding each new one only takes a few minutes (if I don’t stop to admire my favorites, that is!).  And I do use it!  Comes in handy when I need to find a subject for a gift, or when someone on RCTN wants to know a good chart of something, or can’t remember the name of a leaflet.   Keeping track of fabric and fibers is still not worth the time…it’s easier to just look in the box of fabrics, or check the bobbins.  I have a *lot* more leaflets, magazines and books…it’s sort of a hobby in itself! Kathy H

Response:

Glad you brought this up – whenever anyone has raised the subject before

I`ve thought "PLEASE – get a LIFE – just go look in the drawer!!!" LOL (whine) but Paaaat—-I have to look in the drawer, and the cupboard, and the bookcase, and that magazine holder, and the accordion file, and the bag with some of the threads in it and the thread organizer and the book my husband threw stuff in last summer and (you get the picture) Dawne, whose software, if she had it, would be much more organized than her home

Response:

Ah, yes.  I wasn’t quite clear in my original post.  I still want the capability of searching by subject, description, whatever (like your "W", "B", etc.).  It’s the entering of all the supplies for each chart and tracking what supplies you currently have so you can run those nifty reports that I am doubting.  I agree that it would take tons of time to page through everything looking for a suitable chart (would be fun, though! -Heather Lott

I don’t bother to make a list of my supplies because they change as I use them.  I do keep my fabrics folded and placed in muslin bags which are labeled as to thread count.  If I want to stitch a certain chart on 28 ct fabric, I just have to look through the 28 ct. bag. It works fairly well for me. Anne/NC E-mail response not expected but E-mail back delete the ".uk" at the end

Response:

Glad you brought this up – whenever anyone has raised the subject before I`ve thought "PLEASE – get a LIFE – just go look in the drawer!!!" LOL Pat Porter

I also agree here.  If I didn’t look through my closet of supplies every once in a while, I would bury things there forever!  The only organizing I use is the pocket inventory so I don’t buy threads or books/patterns I already have. But going through the stash and making "new" discoveries is half the fun! Greta

Response:

(snipped) So, in light of DH’s astute observations, is your stash-tracking software really worth the overhead of entering your charts and supplies? -Heather Lott Basically, yes.  I have over twelve years of magazines and I never

<snip I have listed all my magazines (name & issue) and have every pattern in each one listed with the designer.  I gave a code to each pattern, so when I need a wedding chart I just bring up all the patterns I have under "W", for baby charts, I bring up "B", etc. Then I know just which issue of which magazine to go to and I choose my chart from those I already have.  When I get the latest issue of my subscriptions, it only takes me a couple of minutes to enter everything in it.  For me it is definitely worth it in time saved.

This is really the *only* reason I find organizing software useful. I’ve got Cross Magic, but frankly I’m going to go back to using my Stitcher’s Pocket Inventory for tracking my fibers and fabric.  I’ve found the same thing you have, Heather — I only use the reports to dream about doing stitching! — Laura (remove the moonlight to email me) WIP: "The Fairy Moon" – Mirabilia, "Harvest Moon" – Shepherd’s Bush, "Little Lambs/My ABC’s/Hush Little Baby" – JBW Designs (as a birth sampler)

Response:

I picked up a shareware cross stitch database from the Web – but decided it looked like too much work to set up. The url is

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/modelsystems/crossmagic4win.htm Actually, CrossMagic is the "old" database program I have.  It is very slick!  But like I said, more than I really need.  I still have the version for Windows 3.1; aparently my sending in my $30 registration fee did not ensure that I got updates.  I have a new email address and mailing address now, but I was at that email/snail mail for at least two years after registering.  I think I would just set up my DB in something simpler now. -Heather Lott Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I’m of both worlds. I have Cross Magic and love it. I am only about 1/3 of the way through in entering my charts, and patterns that I have pulled out from magazines (no room to keep the whole issues), but that’s okay with me. I am entering each one completely (with supplies, etc.) and I figure by the end of the year I will be done with that plus inventory. My stash is usually in a closet, and difficult to get at with my small apt, so having it all at a database is easier for me to "leaf" through. I also like to deal with databases and logical things, so this is a great program for me. On the other hand, I have numerous books with patterns that I will browse through for ideas, designs, drools, etc. In fact, I was searching for a filet crochet pattern of grapes on a grapevine that I could make curtains from recently. I checked my cross stitch patterns thinking I could adapt one,…nothing. I searched the web for a line drawing, a pattern, anything. Still nothing. Then, I hit my bookshelf…picked up a book, leafed through and lo and behold there was my pattern! Of course, it was for a bedspread insert, but it’s easily adaptable for kitchen curtains! Anyway, I like both ways of finding things….cause I never know what will catch my interest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would miss the "hands on" you mentioned. I love to sit and go thro my mags. Often when I  am going thro looking for a project I have in mind, I suddenly come upon one I had forgotten all about and would like to do also. And it is the best feeling to decide to start a new project and go thro my stash to see what I already have ( good fondle time) and then see what I still need to get. Usually when I begin a list of those missing items I also begin adding to my stash for the next project in line, etc. So see what I would miss if I actually got organized! Sandra — http://www.oldhousestitchery.com Huge sale on summer charts, fabric, totes, q-snaps and more! Use my entry form to enter my free drawing, sign up for my newsletter! It’s the entering of all the supplies for each chart and tracking what supplies you currently have so you can run those nifty reports that I am doubting.  I agree that it would take tons of time to page through everything looking for a suitable chart (would be fun, though! -Heather Lott Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

– Katherine, Sunnyside, Queens, NY The moment two bubbles are united, they both vanish. A lotus blooms.                               Kijo Murakami (1865-1938)

Response:

Glad you brought this up – whenever anyone has raised the subject before I`ve thought "PLEASE – get a LIFE – just go look in the drawer!!!" LOL Pat Porter

Response:

I think I would miss the "hands on" you mentioned. I love to sit and go thro my mags. Often when I  am going thro looking for a project I have in mind, I suddenly come upon one I had forgotten all about and would like to do also. And it is the best feeling to decide to start a new project and go thro my stash to see what I already have ( good fondle time) and then see what I still need to get. Usually when I begin a list of those missing items I also begin adding to my stash for the next project in line, etc. So see what I would miss if I actually got organized! Sandra — http://www.oldhousestitchery.com Huge sale on summer charts, fabric, totes, q-snaps and more! Use my entry form to enter my free drawing, sign up for my newsletter! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s the entering of all the supplies for each chart and tracking what supplies you currently have so you can run those nifty reports that I am doubting.  I agree that it would take tons of time to page through everything looking for a suitable chart (would be fun, though! -Heather Lott Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

[snipped] This is not particularly user friendly as I wrote the software for myself and it doesn’t need to be but there may be others who would like to have this capability for their own uses.  I haven’t seen anything like this available for purchase so you might not want to give up. Hope this helps Carolyn Harris

I picked up a shareware cross stitch database from the Web – but decided it looked like too much work to set up. The url is http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/modelsystems/crossmagic4win.htm Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

(snipped) So, in light of DH’s astute observations, is your stash-tracking software really worth the overhead of entering your charts and supplies? -Heather Lott

Basically, yes.  I have over twelve years of magazines and I never took fewer than four or five subscriptions at a time.  That’s a lot of magazines and I never throw any away.  I frequently have baby, wedding, birthday, etc. gifts to give which sneak up on me.  With all the mags I have on hand, I rarely need to go out and buy a chart for that kind of gift.  OTOH, it takes me a day to just flip through them all hunting for the type of chart I need.  My DH set up a file for me in Access under the headings I gave him.  It took me quite a while but I have listed all my magazines (name & issue) and have every pattern in each one listed with the designer.  I gave a code to each pattern, so when I need a wedding chart I just bring up all the patterns I have under "W", for baby charts, I bring up "B", etc. Then I know just which issue of which magazine to go to and I choose my chart from those I already have.  When I get the latest issue of my subscriptions, it only takes me a couple of minutes to enter everything in it.  For me it is definitely worth it in time saved.   Anne/NC E-mail response not expected but E-mail back delete the ".uk" at the end

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snipped) So, in light of DH’s astute observations, is your stash-tracking software really worth the overhead of entering your charts and supplies? -Heather Lott Basically, yes. <snip It took me quite a while but I have listed all my magazines (name & issue) and have every pattern in each one listed with the designer.  I gave a code to each pattern, so when I need a wedding chart I just bring up all the patterns I have under "W", for baby charts, I bring up "B", etc.

Ah, yes.  I wasn’t quite clear in my original post.  I still want the capability of searching by subject, description, whatever (like your "W", "B", etc.).  It’s the entering of all the supplies for each chart and tracking what supplies you currently have so you can run those nifty reports that I am doubting.  I agree that it would take tons of time to page through everything looking for a suitable chart (would be fun, though! -Heather Lott Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I have a database that I designed for my own personal use.  It allows me to enter chart info, supplies needed, and design info.  I use the supply info to pull all the supplies for the project I am working on (it really peeves me to put all of the colors I need in numerical order in by stitching box only to find that I haven’t pulled one of the colors).  So many of the charts do not have the colors listed in order or they have J&P Coats colors listed but not Anchor and the report that I print out lists conversion number for both. This is not particularly user friendly as I wrote the software for myself and it doesn’t need to be but there may be others who would like to have this capability for their own uses.  I haven’t seen anything like this available for purchase so you might not want to give up. Hope this helps Carolyn Harris

Response:

is your stash-tracking software really worth the overhead of entering your charts and supplies? -Heather Lott

Nicely put, Heather and hubby.  I couldn’t agree more. know where to find them.  Fibers and beads are in numerical order…  I know where to find them. Now, back to stitching. Nova A merry heart doeth good like a medicine duffer is my dog; take out the dog to reply

Response:

So, in light of DH’s astute observations, is your stash-tracking software really worth the overhead of entering your charts and supplies?

I took a database class at the Community College and our semester long assignment was to develop a database and work with it all semester as we learned new things. I choose to use my cross stitch hobby for my database and developed a really nice one (the teacher wanted a copy since she stitches also)–got an A too. Now once in a blue moon I get back to entering things in it but I do use it when a new pattern calls for something other than DMC. I can see right away if I need the new floss. When I start to look through my stash I get sidetracked rediscovering everything, so yes, my database is worth some of the time put into it. Kathy in Maryland

Response:

First of all, I promise this is on-topic.  You just have to wade through a bit to get there. Well, I am trying to Work From Home now that my company has moved 30 miles away from my house.  I am having a Very Difficult Time indeed, since one of my sacrifices when I married was to give up my old, beat up, but still working fabulously, treasured PC.  My husband brought his Mac to the union.  It’s great for games, but I am a Real Software Programmer–I work with Very Big Databases and Object-Oriented Programming Languages. Anyway, the Mac does not want to play with my PC at work, so I was thinking of getting a laptop.  Plus, I told DH, I can finally write that fabulous piece of cross stitch stash inventory software I’ve been wanting to write!  I’ll write it in Java, so it will run on ANY computer!  It will have a Wonderful User Interface (I also design those for a living)!  It will be Easy to Use!  It…what’s that, DH?  What do I really need it to do?  Well, my current software keeps track of all my charts, all the materials to do those charts, and all the materials I have.  Then I can print out reports!  I can see what charts I could stitch with the materials I have on hand!  DH says, "How often do you need to do that?"  Well…Um, you see, if it were midnight, and no stores were open, and I HAD to have something to work on Right Now… "You could work on one of your UFO’s, right?"  Well, yeah.  "Or pull threads for your next project?"  Well, yeah…but the software will print out a shopping list for me!  Ah…but I would still eventually have to pull the threads, and I would find out then what I needed anyway…But, my software will have a subject search!  DH says, "So all you really want is a database of your charts, who designed them, where they are, and some description so you can search them."  Well, when you put it that way….  I realized that the only reason I wanted the other features was so I could "dream" about stitching when I didn’t have time to actually stitch. So, in light of DH’s astute observations, is your stash-tracking software really worth the overhead of entering your charts and supplies? -Heather Lott PS–Sorry this was so long!! X/USA/H+++(msl)/-/-/-/1F2B/Dimension Gold "Mother" teacup, Cross My Heart "First Nativity" stocking, TW "Magical Night"/XHDR/36L/D/ex-P~/0HSQ/M/B/b/R+-/S/K/E/L/NG/W+/-/J/msl/George MacDonald/chocolate Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Hi, Jennifer, Very good question… of course, I have no answers, but I do understand what you are saying… but, is being with someone you know isn’t right, only going to cause more pain, in the future? I don’t know… like I said… very good question… And, I do know about thinking too much… I spend much of my time, deep in thought… perhaps too much time, and perhaps much too deep… Damn, now I need to go think about this for awhile… (smile) Aw, the hell with it… Who wants pie?… (laugh)                               warm hugs,                               Michael In article <19990302011126.15320.00002…@ng-fv1.aol.com>, jenev…@aol.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Jeneve23) wrote: >Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone >you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) >1:11am and I’m thinking too much again. >Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) >members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html >I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s >dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

Response:

Jeneve23 writes>… Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) I can’t speak for both people. We are married over 32 yr. now. With ups and down’s we get along. There’s no communication, no tenderness, no hugging’s. But a lot of understanding both ways. What’s worse for me, there has never been a "Love you". Never a "thank you". Maybe, later, much later, I’m able to speak about this. Often I believe I’m a hero. I promised to have and to hold for the rest of my life, and I did. None else. Than I feel a coward, staying and swallowing is more comfortable than breaking up. There are reasons for staying. There’s none for leaving. So, if you can find an answer, tell me please…

Response:

Ok folks… make sure you’re sitting comfortably, this is probably gonna be a long one <smile>. On 2 Mar 1999 06:11:26 GMT, jenev…@aol.com (Jeneve23) wrote: >Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone >you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people)

Well I can’t offer too much help directly on this one. My own moral compass gets in a spin in situations like this. Actually… I’m kinda in a situation like this at the moment and none too proud of it. I can give you a little insight into how my mind works though (provided you don’t fall asleep first <grin>). I’ve managed to identify at least 3 separate entities within me. They are quite simply: Past Me, Present Me and Future Me. The problem I have is that they don’t really get along terribly well. Present Me is the largest problem. He doesn’t give a rat’s arse about Future Me, in fact I think Present Me hates Future Me with a passion. Present Me is always leaving things for Future Me to try and do… all those errands and chores and things that Present Me doesn’t want to know about get left for Future Me to try and deal with. The problem with Present Me trying to throw all the responsibilities and Future Me is that its like throwing paper against the wind, they come flying straight back into Present Me’s Face. Present Me spends so much time just trying to palm things off to Future Me that he has no time to take care of the growing pile of responsibilities at his feet. All that Present Me seems interested in doing is slacking off and trying to avoid consequences. An example would be if totally the wrong type of woman offered some pleasurable physical activity then Present Me would quite happily say "I’m there" and leave the guilt or hurt for Future Me to have to cope with. This too comes flying back into the face of Present Me eventually. Then of course there is Past Me. Well… Past Me really enjoys taking notes and recording things. Shame all he seems interested in recording in minute detail are all my screw-ups. Past Me likes to come to life late at night when I can’t sleep and taunt me by showing me all the mistakes I’ve ever made. The other time Past Me likes to rise from the deep is when I’m feeling good. He likes to pop up and remind me that I’ve got no right to all these happy feelings, considering all the mistakes I’ve made. So I’ve got to try and work hard to get all these versions of myself working together… to stop Present Me trying to pass of responsibility to Future Me and get Past Me to take notes on the goods things that I’ve done and not just the bad. Oh dear… now how was this going to help you again?? Oh yes… I got lost in my ramblings. It all depends on how your own Present Me gets along with your Future Me. If they get along just fine then your Present Me should realise that being with the wrong person may seem to dull the pain for a little while but in the end it will probably leave a whole lot for Future Me to try and deal with. *Phew* everyone still awake?? Hmmm… ok, well those of you that haven’t nodded off yet I’ve got one more metaphorical example to give. Ok, so is it better to stay lonely until you find the right person to cure your lonely condition or try a few dabbles into relationships that you know are just wrong? Place the open palm of your hand on the opposite arm, gently fold your hand around the arm and leave it there. Notice it may feel strange and/or uncomfortable at first… but then slowly you adapt to it… you stop noticing that it is there (if left for long enough). Then when you eventually take your hand away then it suddenly feels strange and awkward again… but stick with it and you soon adapt. This is how I picture "waiting for the right person". It may seem lonely and harsh to begin with but you will adapt to it. When you do finally meet him/her it will feel like a hard struggle to re-adapt to the new sensation… give it time and it will work out. So how do I picture a string of quick relationships with the wrong type of people? Take your finger and start tapping it on your arm…. soons gets annoying doesn’t it? (at least it does for me anyway) I’m sure you can all draw your own conclusions on this one <grin>. Okay… anyone still awake? Oh…. I see <tippytoes out hoping not to disturb anyone from their slumber>. >1:11am and I’m thinking too much again.

Its only 7:30pm for me… imagine how bad my midnight thinking sessions can get <grin>. And I bet that someone is going to sum up everything I’ve rambled on about here in a few short, sweet sentences… *sigh* I’ll go mutter "Brevity is the soul of wit" a thousand times in penance for my long post <wink>. – credo >Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) >members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html >I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s >dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

—–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– Version: 3.1 GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ G e h r– I* y++ ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——

Response:

Glad to help. Hugs and smiles back. Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gina R12 wrote in message <19990302214722.29519.00001…@ngol03.aol.com>… >In article <7bh9qg$df…@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Matt" ><M…@myhome36.freeserve.co.uk> writes: >>If you are with someone who is not right you are deceiving two people. >>Matt >Yes !!!  That’s essentially what I was trying to say.  Thanks, Matt. >Hugs and Smiles, >Gina >"Mirror in the sky…What is love? >Can the child in my heart rise above ? >Can I said through the changing ocean tides? >Can I handle the seasons of my life?" >                 — Fleetwood Mac

Response:

I tried to figure out what that code is so that your posts arent archived but I cant for the life of me find it. x: no post archive I’m hoping that is it above. oh well. I posed the question of whether it is a better to stay with someone when you know they are not the right one. I guess perhaps I should be more specific as to why I posed this question.  I have been involved with someone for several months. I like him alot. He is an alcoholic. We both have our share of problems….but he refuses to get help for himself and it hurts me to watch him slowly kill himself. I’ve found myself, over the past few months getting deeper into my depression and dealing with my anxiety moreso because of my worries about him. Now, there is also the fact that I have known for a while that there is no future in a "romantic" relationship with him. He knows this too. He needs me as a friend and as someone he can be close with intimately (not sex just close with) but doesnt necessarily want a "serious" relationship. I need a friend and I need someone to be close intimately….but frankly, I dont have it in me to be close physically with someone and not have a commited relationship.. He provides both those things but without the commitment of a solid relationship. is this making any sense? I feel as though I’m talking in circles. I like having someone I can see on the weekends and spend time with….half the time he winds up cancelling though because he has been drunk and is too embarrased for me to see him. I think I recall Matt saying something about deceiving one another by being in a relationship like the one I put forth in the post but to be honest he knows what I want, I know what he wants…we may not want the same things..but a need is being satisfied for us both..so why all the self-doubts? i dont know.I want what I have always wanted…someone who wants me and with whom I can have a good relationship with. I dont want to miss that. I thought I knew what loneliness was before I met someone to care about. Now I am lonelier than ever for someone to want me the way I want them. I’ve blabbed on alot here..sorry.. Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

Response:

Jeneve23 wrote: > x: no post archive > I’m hoping that is it above. oh well.

I don’t remember it either, but apparently, that’s not it, because your post showed up in Deja News. Anyway, I wasn’t sure if you were directing this reply to me or if you were addressing the whole group and just happened to pick my post to reply to.  In any case, now that you’ve explained your situation and why you asked your original question, I’m afraid to say that I don’t have an answer for you.  I could probably tell you what *I* would do if I were in your situation, but it wouldn’t really help because what you want is totally different than what I would want. I did find something in your post to comment on, though… > He needs me as a friend and as > someone he can be close with intimately (not sex just close with) but doesnt > necessarily want a "serious" relationship. I need a friend and I need someone > to be close intimately….but frankly, I dont have it in me to be close > physically with someone and not have a commited relationship.. He provides both > those things but without the commitment of a solid relationship. is this making > any sense?

Well, truthfully, it doesn’t make sense to *ME*, but I do know what you’re talking about because I’ve heard other women say the exact same thing–that they refuse to get physically and/or emotionally intimate with a guy without being in a committed relationship.  Personally, I’ve never completely understood why women feel this way, and I’ve even had one of my female friends try to explain it to me, but after that, I decided that I probably won’t ever understand it any more than I do now.  I just accept it that it’s enough for me to know that women feel this way.  And I just realized I have no idea where I’m going with this, so I’ll just end it here. –Capt. Celebok http://home.earthlink.net/~celebok

Response:

In article <7bg2eg$ip…@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, maddo…@earthlink.net (Maddogg) writes:

<friendly snip> >Damn, now I need to go think about this for awhile… (smile) >Aw, the hell with it… Who wants pie?… (laugh) >                              warm hugs, >                              Michael

Dear Michael…. Pie ?!!!!!   Oh good !!!  Would it happen to be lemon meringue by any chance? That’s my favorite !!!   Okay….you can go think….just leave the pie. <laugh> Hugs and Smiles, Gina "Mirror in the sky…What is love? Can the child in my heart rise above ? Can I said through the changing ocean tides? Can I handle the seasons of my life?"                  — Fleetwood Mac

Response:

In article <19990302011126.15320.00002…@ng-fv1.aol.com>, jenev…@aol.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Jeneve23) writes: >Subject:    Think too much >From:       jenev…@aol.com (Jeneve23) >Date:       2 Mar 1999 06:11:26 GMT >Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with >someone >you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both >people) >1:11am and I’m thinking too much again. >Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) >members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html >I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each >other’s >dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

Hi Jennifer… As I’ve said before….there is misery…and there is misery.  No…I don’t think you were thinking too much.  This is something that should be thought about…long and hard.   Being with someone…just anyone….is not the answer to the misery of loneliness.  If you know it isn’t the right one, then sooner or later that misery and loneliness creeps right back in and someone usually ends up being hurt….and you find yourself looking back at the wasted time and effort.  Being with someone you know isn’t the right one might temporarily ease the pain of loneliness…but it is bound to bring another kind of pain which is just as bad.  My thoughts and opinion.  <smile> Oh….by the way….welcome to ASL.  I see you’ve already met some of the kind, thoughtful and caring people here.  I’m glad you’re with us as you work through your loneliness.  You’ve found some very good friends here. Hugs and Smiles, Gina "Mirror in the sky…What is love? Can the child in my heart rise above ? Can I said through the changing ocean tides? Can I handle the seasons of my life?"                  — Fleetwood Mac

Response:

Jeneve23 wrote: > Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone > you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people)

Are those the only two possible choices?  That sounds like a really tough question, which I’m glad I don’t have to deal with because I’m currently in neither situation.  I’m not "with" anyone, but I’m not lonely either…in general. –Capt. Celebok http://home.earthlink.net/~celebok

Response:

On 03 Mar 1999 02:47:25 GMT, gina…@aol.com (Gina R12) wrote: >Hi Jennifer…

<snipped with respect> > If you know it isn’t the right one, then sooner >or later that misery and loneliness creeps right back in and someone usually >ends up being hurt….and you find yourself looking back at the wasted time and >effort.  

Don’t know what is was in Gina’s words that triggered this thought… but here it is: So you dive into the wrong relationship to temporarily ease the pain of being lonely. You promise yourself that you’ll get out of it one day when it starts going wrong. The only problem is that a few weeks later, just as this "wrong" relationship is getting started… the right person wanders past. Now what do you do? You’re "taken" already… which either means watching the right person slip from your grasp… trying to hurriedly (and probably messily) extricate yourself from the bad relationship or try and manage both at the same time (without either knowing). I’m sure you can see the pitfalls and potential dangers that all of those 3 choices offer. The likelihood of it all going badly wrong far outways the chances of a good and happy outcome. Just something to think about! – credo —–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– Version: 3.1 GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ G e h r– I* y++ ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——

Response:

Well, I don’t agree whole hardly. I needed a job badly, after I left the Navy. I searched and couldn’t find anything properly. A small advert in the local newspaper asked for a low-level handy man to help them out. Within four years I was manager of their production department. I teach my son not to ‘hunt for a female’. They come along as long as he is able to take care of him self, and in no need for one. I also tough him to say yes for the day, but if a lady comes along, she or anyone else comes along another day as well, so don’t make appointments. You might call this a one-night-stand, but how else can he gets some experience? He’s 31 now and enjoys every day of his life, has many friends and loves him self. Only I am not a grand-dad (Opa in Dutch) yet You don’t have to agree with me, of course. Frans credo writes… >Hi Jennifer…

<snipped with respect> > If you know it isn’t the right one, then sooner >or later that misery and loneliness creeps right back in and someone usually >ends up being hurt….and you find yourself looking back at the wasted time and >effort.

Don’t know what is was in Gina’s words that triggered this thought… but here it is: So you dive into the wrong relationship to temporarily ease the pain of being lonely. You promise yourself that you’ll get out of it one day when it starts going wrong. The only problem is that a few weeks later, just as this "wrong" relationship is getting started… the right person wanders past. Now what do you do? You’re "taken" already… which either means watching the right person slip from your grasp… trying to hurriedly (and probably messily) extricate yourself from the bad relationship or try and manage both at the same time (without either knowing). I’m sure you can see the pitfalls and potential dangers that all of those 3 choices offer. The likelihood of it all going badly wrong far outways the chances of a good and happy outcome. Just something to think about! – credo —–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– Version: 3.1 GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ G e h r– I* y++ ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——

Response:

In article <7bh9qg$df…@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Matt" <M…@myhome36.freeserve.co.uk> writes: >If you are with someone who is not right you are deceiving two people. >Matt

Yes !!!  That’s essentially what I was trying to say.  Thanks, Matt. Hugs and Smiles, Gina "Mirror in the sky…What is love? Can the child in my heart rise above ? Can I said through the changing ocean tides? Can I handle the seasons of my life?"                  — Fleetwood Mac

Response:

Dear Credo…My goodness !!!  You’re certainly a deep thinker !!!  I had never really thought about it in that light….but you’re right !!!  I guess we all have that past, present and future persons in us….and they do battle with each other from time to time.  The secret is being able to balance those three…and yes, that’s the hard part, too.  Well….now you’ve given me something to think about.  Thank you. Hugs and Smiles, Gina "Mirror in the sky…What is love? Can the child in my heart rise above ? Can I said through the changing ocean tides? Can I handle the seasons of my life?"                  — Fleetwood Mac

Response:

In article <7bgch6$8k…@news.worldonline.nl>, "Frans" <bowl…@club.tip.nl> writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject:    Re: Think too much >From:       "Frans" <bowl…@club.tip.nl> >Date:       Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:53:12 +0100 >Jeneve23 writes>… >Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be >with someone >you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for >both people) >Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) >I can’t speak for both people. We are married over 32 yr. now. With >ups and down’s we get along. There’s no communication, no >tenderness, no hugging’s. But a lot of understanding both ways. >What’s worse for me, there has never been a "Love you". Never a >"thank you". >Maybe, later, much later, I’m able to speak about this. >Often I believe I’m a hero. I promised to have and to hold for the >rest of my life, and I did. None else. Than I feel a coward, staying >and swallowing is more comfortable than breaking up. >There are reasons for staying. There’s none for leaving. >So, if you can find an answer, tell me please…

Dear Frans… {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I’m not necessarily an advocate for divorce….and I don’t know your whole story…but my philosophy is that if you married the wrong person, you shouldn’t have to suffer and be miserable with it for the rest of your life. Now…I do admire someone that takes those vows so seriously….but those vows must be taken seriously and honored by both parties.  I’m not helping much here, am I ?  I just don’t believe a person should stay in an unhappy or unloving relationship.  Life is just too short, dear Frans.  Grab happiness and love and hold onto them whenever you can. And the marriage….well, you can’t unscramble eggs, but you don’t have to eat them either.  <smile>  Sending you good thoughts and many wishes for love and happiness… Hugs and Smiles, Gina "Mirror in the sky…What is love? Can the child in my heart rise above ? Can I said through the changing ocean tides? Can I handle the seasons of my life?"                  — Fleetwood Mac

Response:

Hi, Credo, No, brother… you said what I could not find the words to say… my brevity was for lack of a way to express myself… certainly not because I had it all figured out, and neatly summarized… (smile) I have been enjoying reading your posts, and you often do express what I am feeling… but as is so often the case… my words just won’t come… Thank you…                              warm hugs,                              Michael In article <36dbce7d.103136…@news.m.iinet.net.au>, turi…@astro.com.au – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(credo) wrote: >Arrgh…. I knew it was going to happen… in reference to my other >post in this thread: >:And I bet that someone is going to sum up everything I’ve rambled on >:about here in a few short, sweet sentences… *sigh* I’ll go mutter >:"Brevity is the soul of wit" a thousand times in penance for my long >:post <wink>. >I think next time I’ll just hang back on a post and add a little >"Right on!" when someone else expresses something I agree with <grin>. >It would save so much time and bandwidth… really it would! >- credo >On Tue, 02 Mar 1999 07:02:43 GMT, maddo…@earthlink.net (Maddogg) >wrote: >>Hi, Jennifer, >>Very good question… of course, I have no answers, but I >>do understand what you are saying… but, is being with >>someone you know isn’t right, only going to cause more >>pain, in the future? I don’t know… like I said… very good >>question… >>And, I do know about thinking too much… I spend much >>of my time, deep in thought… perhaps too much time, and >>perhaps much too deep… >>Damn, now I need to go think about this for awhile… (smile) >>Aw, the hell with it… Who wants pie?… (laugh) >>                              warm hugs, >>                              Michael >—–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– >Version: 3.1 >GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w >O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ >G e h r– I* y++ >——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——

Response:

Arrgh…. I knew it was going to happen… in reference to my other post in this thread: :And I bet that someone is going to sum up everything I’ve rambled on :about here in a few short, sweet sentences… *sigh* I’ll go mutter :"Brevity is the soul of wit" a thousand times in penance for my long :post <wink>. I think next time I’ll just hang back on a post and add a little "Right on!" when someone else expresses something I agree with <grin>. It would save so much time and bandwidth… really it would! – credo On Tue, 02 Mar 1999 07:02:43 GMT, maddo…@earthlink.net (Maddogg) wrote: >Hi, Jennifer, >Very good question… of course, I have no answers, but I >do understand what you are saying… but, is being with >someone you know isn’t right, only going to cause more >pain, in the future? I don’t know… like I said… very good >question… >And, I do know about thinking too much… I spend much >of my time, deep in thought… perhaps too much time, and >perhaps much too deep… >Damn, now I need to go think about this for awhile… (smile) >Aw, the hell with it… Who wants pie?… (laugh) >                              warm hugs, >                              Michael

—–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– Version: 3.1 GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ G e h r– I* y++ ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——

Response:

Don’t you dare do that!  <laugh>  Both posts by you and by Michael say it in a different way.  Some might relate to one that wouldn’t to another. There’s no accounting for taste, you know.  <grin>  Hugs to you both,  Jae – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -credo wrote: > Arrgh…. I knew it was going to happen… in reference to my other > post in this thread: > :And I bet that someone is going to sum up everything I’ve rambled on > :about here in a few short, sweet sentences… *sigh* I’ll go mutter > :"Brevity is the soul of wit" a thousand times in penance for my long > :post <wink>. > I think next time I’ll just hang back on a post and add a little > "Right on!" when someone else expresses something I agree with <grin>. > It would save so much time and bandwidth… really it would! > – credo > On Tue, 02 Mar 1999 07:02:43 GMT, maddo…@earthlink.net (Maddogg) > wrote: > >Hi, Jennifer, > >Very good question… of course, I have no answers, but I > >do understand what you are saying… but, is being with > >someone you know isn’t right, only going to cause more > >pain, in the future? I don’t know… like I said… very good > >question… > >And, I do know about thinking too much… I spend much > >of my time, deep in thought… perhaps too much time, and > >perhaps much too deep… > >Damn, now I need to go think about this for awhile… (smile) > >Aw, the hell with it… Who wants pie?… (laugh) > >                              warm hugs, > >                              Michael > —–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– > Version: 3.1 > GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w > O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ > G e h r– I* y++ > ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——

–             "Rivers belong where they can ramble….                     Eagles belong where they can fly….                             I’ve got to be…..                                  Where my spirit can run free."

Response:

Dear Credo, Thank you for your refreshing message, now I know why I cannot seem to get along with myself: there’s just too many of us! Said with a smile, but seriously, I thank you for sharing this with me. Hugs, Caroline PS: I never make jokes at tall people, and prefer tall men myself. If only, because I can forget my childhood worries that (at age 9 or 10) I was much taller than all the "men" that I knew. I’m 1.77 now – not sure what that is in your metric system

Response:

Darlin’….I’m going to carry your whole message ’cause I checked and so far no one else has and I do think it says a whole lot to those who have "ears to listen". <smile>  I did see some of myself in this and a different way of looking at it all, too.  I need to be figuring out how to get all these "Me s" to cooperate a bit better and leave *Me* alone!  <laugh>  Thank you.  Hugs, Jae – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -credo wrote: > Ok folks… make sure you’re sitting comfortably, this is probably > gonna be a long one <smile>. > On 2 Mar 1999 06:11:26 GMT, jenev…@aol.com (Jeneve23) wrote: > >Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone > >you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) > Well I can’t offer too much help directly on this one. My own moral > compass gets in a spin in situations like this. Actually… I’m kinda > in a situation like this at the moment and none too proud of it. > I can give you a little insight into how my mind works though > (provided you don’t fall asleep first <grin>). > I’ve managed to identify at least 3 separate entities within me. They > are quite simply: Past Me, Present Me and Future Me. The problem I > have is that they don’t really get along terribly well. > Present Me is the largest problem. He doesn’t give a rat’s arse about > Future Me, in fact I think Present Me hates Future Me with a passion. > Present Me is always leaving things for Future Me to try and do… all > those errands and chores and things that Present Me doesn’t want to > know about get left for Future Me to try and deal with. > The problem with Present Me trying to throw all the responsibilities > and Future Me is that its like throwing paper against the wind, they > come flying straight back into Present Me’s Face. Present Me spends so > much time just trying to palm things off to Future Me that he has no > time to take care of the growing pile of responsibilities at his feet. > All that Present Me seems interested in doing is slacking off and > trying to avoid consequences. An example would be if totally the wrong > type of woman offered some pleasurable physical activity then Present > Me would quite happily say "I’m there" and leave the guilt or hurt for > Future Me to have to cope with. This too comes flying back into the > face of Present Me eventually. > Then of course there is Past Me. Well… Past Me really enjoys taking > notes and recording things. Shame all he seems interested in recording > in minute detail are all my screw-ups. Past Me likes to come to life > late at night when I can’t sleep and taunt me by showing me all the > mistakes I’ve ever made. > The other time Past Me likes to rise from the deep is when I’m feeling > good. He likes to pop up and remind me that I’ve got no right to all > these happy feelings, considering all the mistakes I’ve made. > So I’ve got to try and work hard to get all these versions of myself > working together… to stop Present Me trying to pass of > responsibility to Future Me and get Past Me to take notes on the goods > things that I’ve done and not just the bad. > Oh dear… now how was this going to help you again?? Oh yes… I got > lost in my ramblings. It all depends on how your own Present Me gets > along with your Future Me. > If they get along just fine then your Present Me should realise that > being with the wrong person may seem to dull the pain for a little > while but in the end it will probably leave a whole lot for Future Me > to try and deal with. > *Phew* everyone still awake?? Hmmm… ok, well those of you that > haven’t nodded off yet I’ve got one more metaphorical example to give. > Ok, so is it better to stay lonely until you find the right person to > cure your lonely condition or try a few dabbles into relationships > that you know are just wrong? > Place the open palm of your hand on the opposite arm, gently fold your > hand around the arm and leave it there. Notice it may feel strange > and/or uncomfortable at first… but then slowly you adapt to it… > you stop noticing that it is there (if left for long enough). Then > when you eventually take your hand away then it suddenly feels strange > and awkward again… but stick with it and you soon adapt. > This is how I picture "waiting for the right person". It may seem > lonely and harsh to begin with but you will adapt to it. When you do > finally meet him/her it will feel like a hard struggle to re-adapt to > the new sensation… give it time and it will work out. > So how do I picture a string of quick relationships with the wrong > type of people? Take your finger and start tapping it on your arm…. > soons gets annoying doesn’t it? (at least it does for me anyway) I’m > sure you can all draw your own conclusions on this one <grin>. > Okay… anyone still awake? Oh…. I see <tippytoes out hoping not to > disturb anyone from their slumber>. > >1:11am and I’m thinking too much again. > Its only 7:30pm for me… imagine how bad my midnight thinking > sessions can get <grin>. > And I bet that someone is going to sum up everything I’ve rambled on > about here in a few short, sweet sentences… *sigh* I’ll go mutter > "Brevity is the soul of wit" a thousand times in penance for my long > post <wink>. > – credo > >Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) > >members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html > >I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s > >dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes" > —–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– > Version: 3.1 > GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w > O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ > G e h r– I* y++ > ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——

–             "Rivers belong where they can ramble….                     Eagles belong where they can fly….                             I’ve got to be…..                                  Where my spirit can run free."

Response:

This situation would suit some, others it wouldnt. I was in this situation with my first (and only) boyfriend, we were both lonely neither had really experienced a relationship and were basically just with each other because we felt that no one else could love us. Things went ok for about 7 months but then everything just fell apart, he started showing the way he REALLY was and I couldnt handle it. So we split. For me I think it probably would have been a lot better if I had of waited, or even just taken things a lot slower than we had. Thinking isnt such a bad thing, it helps you to deal with and learn from situations. Have you ever noticed however that the solutions to problems seem to come a lot easier if you see someone else going through things that you yourself have been through? On 2 Mar 1999 06:11:26 GMT, jenev…@aol.com (Jeneve23) wrote: >Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone >you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) >1:11am and I’m thinking too much again. >Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) >members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html >I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s >dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

The missing and not to be taken seriously under ANY circumstances garden gnome http://www.starwon.com.au/~willow ~~Faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~

Response:

Paul said: >Well I can’t offer too much help directly on >this one.

Ha!  Present me, past me, and future me all really identified with your story. Am I you? Are you me? Posted & emailed (Paul, can u let me know if you got this via email so I can see if my email is workingcorrectly from my newsgroup program) ) Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

Response:

If you are with someone who is not right you are deceiving two people. Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jeneve23 wrote in message <19990302011126.15320.00002…@ng-fv1.aol.com>… >Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone >you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) >1:11am and I’m thinking too much again. >Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) >members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html >I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s >dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

Response:

Jeneve23 heeft geschreven in bericht <19990302011126.15320.00002…@ng-fv1.aol.com>… :Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone :you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) : :1:11am and I’m thinking too much again. To paraphrase a dutch saying: anything that has "too" in front of it is wrong, except "together".  Omigosh, now I have created the wrong impression about what I want to say. Take 2.  Nothing wrong with thinking, just as long as it’s thinking and not worrying. My opinion on your question: it is better to be alone.  Compromise feels like giving in and is always painful. What it should not be, if you’re with the right person, compromise is giving your love to him. Also, being alone you are free to meet mr. Right.  (Yes, that’s him, the guy on the white stallion !) Hope this helps, hugs, Caroline

Response:

Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) 1:11am and I’m thinking too much again. Jennifer (Jenev…@aol.com) members.aol.com/zuzubailie/deplink.html I think we dream so we don’t have to be apart so long. If we’re in each other’s dreams, we can play together all night. –Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes"

Response:

Jeneve23 wrote: > Is it better to be alone and feel the pain of loneliness ….or be with someone > you know isn’t the right one but it sure does ease the pain? (for both people) > 1:11am and I’m thinking too much again.

    I wish I had an answer for you, darlin’, but I don’t.  I just didn’t wish you to think you were "thinking" all by yourself.  <smile>  Hugs, Jae —             "Rivers belong where they can ramble….                     Eagles belong where they can fly….                             I’ve got to be…..                                  Where my spirit can run free."

Response:

Question:

Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things about people and their careers: What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? What made you choose this career? What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my helping others, etc) How do you feel your career impacts others?   What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your career? Tamara

Response:

In article <MPG.10fb0ebbc679146f989…@news.mindspring.com>, bo…@mindsprng.com (TYounger) wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point,

Good for you. It shows ambition. > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

My career was in elementary education. I was a master teacher in two grades, a middle school vice principal, and for 21+ years an elementary school principal. I was responsible for the whole operation; everything that happened at my school, including academics, the cafeteria, even the student behavior on the bus and at the bus stops. I supervised all teachers, special service personnel ( speach teachers, E.H. teachers, school psychologists, custodians, food service workers, etc)  I was responsible for school-community relations and for working with parents. > What made you choose this career?

I couldn’t find a job in what used to be called Industrial Psychology, which was my major. I was already a grad, so I used my GI Bill to pick up the credits I needed for elementary teaching. I friend was doing student teaching and told me how neat it was, so I thought I’d try it. I intended, however, to be a high school English teacher, but went into elementary ed because I could start working sooner. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

I got a tremendous sense of satisfaction out of affecting many lives in a positive way – students, parents and teachers. I feel I left an impact on the society of my schools. > How do you feel your career impacts others?  

I’m told that it impacted many people in very positive ways. After I took an early retirement I worked in university for 10 years and have been told the same thing there. I still have students who contact me and keep in touch. It is a very gratifying feeling. > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

The very  highest would be the lives of students I turned around, and the teachers who said I opened their minds too. The lowest would be the pressure of a job with impossible demands upon it. The paperwork and the meetings were terrible. Having all the responsibility placed on me by the district ofice without an appropriate amount of authority to "make it happen" set up cycle after cycle of frustration. Parents and children are getting harder and harder to work with. Many administrators in my district were on blood pressure meds and one had a bleeding ulcer.  It’s a damn shame education has deteriated to that.

Response:

TYounger wrote in message … >Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to >happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, >so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things >about people and their careers: >What is your career?

ISIS:  restaurant manager.  What responsibilities do you have? ISIS: Running a clean, customer service oriented restaurant according to company procedure and standard every hour (except from 12a.m. to 4a.m. when it is closed) of every day (even when I am off).  Aside from that, I am responsible for every action and repurcussion of 50 other individuals. >What made you choose this career?

ISIS: It’s what I started with to get extra money in college.  Then I met my (now ex) husband.  He was the restaurant manager…and it was only natural for me to learn the business to help him.  I didn’t use my college experience to find a career because in working with him we could make between 60K and 70K a year, which was good for a young couple back then.  I am still in it now because it is "in my blood" (been in it for 12 years)…and I make a nice living from it.                                 ISIS >What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my >helping others, etc)

ISIS: 1) Money 2) Freedom of movement (boss never bothers me.  I’m pretty much on my own. The owner offers his managers "ownership" of the restaurant, which means that we can do what we want to within a certain limit to generate customers, which generates BONUS$$$ > 3)Dealing with this level of people, I can effect a lot of advancement and personal growth with them…I have shown people what it means to succeed, teamwork, pride in doing the job right the first time, compassion for others, etc., etc., etc..  I am teaching them the restaurant business…and a whole lot more.  It’s very rewarding most of the time.  Some of my employees from my previous store ( I recently moved to a brand new store to train managers) email me and tell me how they are using what I "gave" them to get along both in the old store and in their lives.  It’s nothing to "shake a stick at".  BUT….you gotta’ love it….or you gotta’ leave it. There’s no middle out here. >How do you feel your career impacts others?

ISIS:  OOPS.  I got ahead of myself and answered that one ^ up there. >What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your >career?

ISIS:  Opening this new store…after having such a well-trained management team and crew…and a routine…to going into a situation where I’m the only one that has a clue.  MAN….I thought it was going to break my mind!  LOL THE HIGHEST POINT was when I took over my old restaurant and worked for 18 months to bring it to never before seen levels of profit and gained a "Superior" rating from the corporation, after everyone said it could never be done in a tourist driven store.                     ISIS I hope at the very least you have found this post to be amusing and informative.  Like I said, service work is only for those that have a LOT of patience.  Not everyone can do it.                         Best of luck with you school and career choice.  Let us know what you decide.  :)                                 ISIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tamara

Response:

>I think that trained, skilled counselors make a huge difference, for >both the victim, and the prosecution.

"Huge" doesn’t begin to describe it.  A victim of a sexual assault (who reports it and seeks medical attention) is immediately "rewarded" with a system that tends to be highly impersonal, and can compound the trauma of the assault itself without supports such as you provide. >Yup.  The sexual assault cases aren’t as tough on me as the *children’s* >SA cases.

Only because you have the perspective of an adult.  You know what that child will be dealing with for the rest of their lives. >Safer that way.  I once had a guy come to our shelter (its address is >well known), carrying a gun & gun clip, asking for me by name.  Talk >about Heebie-Jeebies!

We actually had a murder outside a local nonprofit "open" agency called "Common Ground" that offered its facilities for transferring the child from one parent to another ("neutral territory") or for supervised visits.  A father, after dropping off his daughter, lay in wait for the mother when she came to pick up the daughter.  The father approached her as she pulled out of the parking garage and killed both the mother and child. He was later located in San Francisco after taking his own life. -BB

Response:

>>I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really >>needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over >>not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house. >Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds.

Do you know how accurate it is?  "Mainstream" counselors who hang out a shingle refer to their clients (in inside circles) as "the worried well". It gets difficult to sympathize with people who express common, general, ordinary life pecadillos as if they were major life crises.  The reality is that there are people out there with REAL problems.  Brain damage.  Missing limbs.  Our friend IICCEE69 with the husband tossing her around the room As Oceanmomma observes, however, dealing with REAL problems isn’t where the money is–it’s sitting calmly listening to the whinings of the "worried well". >Because some have achieved >financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain.

I think perhaps you mistook the point of her post, Urf. >Perhaps you >should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your >prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from >your work.

Out of Bounds.  Ill-informed.  Mean spirited. -BB

Response:

  oceanmo…@aol.com (Oceanmomma) wrote: > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > >make > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > needy people,

I’m studying for that MA and the title now myself, and I went into it knowing that it would quite possibly pay me less than the last job I had, as a high- priced clerk.  Because it is what turned out to be my deepest wish, after I spent many years figuring out what I wanted to be when I grew up. What I saw in Kimberlee’s post was a desire to keep being of service, and the question of whether she could keep doing that if she left her present job. The paper credentials DO open some of those doors. evitsky ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

>From: Kimberlee >I’m actually thinking of law school, with a focus on family & immigrant >law.  YEARS later…I may be able to do what I want…but of course, >gotta’ pay those school loans!

Cool!  (not the school loan part).   I have been paying back twenty thousand dollars in loans  for the last 5 years.  That is not including the books that I charged on my Visa card…approximately 500 dollars a semester…4 semesters. I did this all as a single parent which is why everything was charged or loaned.  It was terribly hard at the time…but I am so incredibly happy that I attained a goal that was long in my mind.  I swore that by age 40, I would have a MA.   One month after I received my degree…I celebrated my 40th birthday. Attaining this goal was far more important to me than anything that money could buy.

Response:

>I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I >work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information >about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and >divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the >hospital when someone is sexually assaulted.

A terrific service you provide.  I’ve used sexual assault counselors/advocates when I’ve had clients who’d been assaulted. Tough stuff to deal with. I’ve also been involved with the somewhat "cloak and dagger" process of sheltering.  Helped one client get to a local shelter (DAWN-Domestic Abuse Women’s Network, a terrific organization).  They answer the phone "Dawn’s house."  They give no address, list no location and you meet them at a neutral location, which changes.  It’s a good setup, run entirely by women, for women and their children. -BB

Response:

Kimberlee, Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would make the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? evitsky In article <36962CF5.CC3ED…@mosquitonet.com>,   Kimberlee <skip-…@mosquitonet.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? > I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I > work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information > about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and > divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the > hospital when someone is sexually assaulted. > > What made you choose this career? > I am a Christian.  I want to give back to God some of what He has given > me. > > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > > helping others, etc) > Definitely not money.  But at the end of every day, I’ve felt that I’ve > done something to help someone else.  And, especially during the > holidays, I am reminded by this when I receive Christmas cards from > women who are doing well now, but who were formerly in very lethal > situations. > > How do you feel your career impacts others? > Pretty significantly.  I am good at what I do, and I love helping other > people. > > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > > career? > Right now, I am at my lowest point.  I am thinking of leaving my job > (internal politics got me down).  The job itself is extremely stressful; > I’ve been threatened by abusive men, I’ve been followed around town and > in stores; and it’s exhausting always feeling "on your guard."  The main > responsibility I have is being "right" in the work I do; I can’t afford > to mis-state anything; I can’t cross the line and give legal advice; I > can’t show frustration or allow my own feelings into my work.  And now, > I have to watch my back.  I don’t have the right letters after my name > to get another job in social work which pays as well as this one does, > so I’m considering going back to work as a paralegal for a law firm. > Depending on the type of law, the job could be fulfilling, but not > nearly as fulfilling as social work.  <Sigh> > > Tamara > — > What would a chair look like if your knees bent the other way?

———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

>From: frogett…@hotmail.com >Kimberlee, >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would >make >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? >evitsky

The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate better.

Response:

>I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really >needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over >not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.

Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote: > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > >Kimberlee, > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > >make > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > >evitsky > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, > everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate > better.

Response:

>From: urf <urf…@erols.com> >Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved >financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you >should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your >prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from >your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain.

I can see why you have think that the post is cold and unfeeling.  In graduate school, we were forced to look examine our prejudices.  We had courses, papers and exams to take regarding our personal prejudice.  One in particular that stood out for me had something to do with the wealthy (financially wealthy that is).  I have not completely come to terms with it…and admit it.  Rather than pretend to not be biased and work with clients who I have some prejudice with, I have chosen to work with those who I feel that I can help without the bias. It is extremely important to look inward and address issues that one has before working with people.  And Urf…we all have prejudices and biases.  It’s just that not everyone is willing to admit them.  As far as my qualifications…so far…so good )  ….and always improving. I don’t have financial reward in my life yet mostly because I have chosen to stay home and be the person toraise my children.  I never said that rich people don’t have pain…I did say that I go for the underdog.   It is important not to take things out of context.   And yes…pain is pain. And honesty is honesty.

Response:

>I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really >>needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry >over >>not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.

URF responded:>Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved >financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you >should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your >prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from >your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain.

Not being able to get domestic  help is pain?  I agree that everything is relative, but this is ridiculous.  My best friend’s sister has got more money than she knows what to do with.  She whines and complains about material things.  She is married to and made two kids with a guy who beat their cat nearly to death because it urinated on the oriental carpet.  He did this in front of the two kids.  She stays with this man because he comes from money. Her whole life is money.  Does she experience pain because of what he did in front of the kids?  Absolutely not.  She’s built a cage in the basement for the cat instead of getting rid of the husband.  When the husband had a heart attack, she didn’t have pain because her husband could die.  All she whined about then was that he was out of work and where would the money come from? I’m not saying that people of means don’t experience pain, but, it has to be realistic for me to feel sorry for them. Toni "Maintaining a complicated life is a great way to avoid changing it"

Response:

Yup; working on it.  Problem is $$$$.  In order to afford to go back to school (and do enough hours to make it short and sweet), I have to work in a field where I’m most experience.  Sigh.  That means law.  I can audit out 15 credit hours…but that still leaves some time in school. I’ve just gotta’ look at it a bit more positively, rather than as a chore! :0( – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -frogett…@hotmail.com wrote: > Kimberlee, > Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would make > the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > evitsky > In article <36962CF5.CC3ED…@mosquitonet.com>, >   Kimberlee <skip-…@mosquitonet.com> wrote: > > > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? > > I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I > > work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information > > about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and > > divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the > > hospital when someone is sexually assaulted. > > > What made you choose this career? > > I am a Christian.  I want to give back to God some of what He has given > > me. > > > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > > > helping others, etc) > > Definitely not money.  But at the end of every day, I’ve felt that I’ve > > done something to help someone else.  And, especially during the > > holidays, I am reminded by this when I receive Christmas cards from > > women who are doing well now, but who were formerly in very lethal > > situations. > > > How do you feel your career impacts others? > > Pretty significantly.  I am good at what I do, and I love helping other > > people. > > > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > > > career? > > Right now, I am at my lowest point.  I am thinking of leaving my job > > (internal politics got me down).  The job itself is extremely stressful; > > I’ve been threatened by abusive men, I’ve been followed around town and > > in stores; and it’s exhausting always feeling "on your guard."  The main > > responsibility I have is being "right" in the work I do; I can’t afford > > to mis-state anything; I can’t cross the line and give legal advice; I > > can’t show frustration or allow my own feelings into my work.  And now, > > I have to watch my back.  I don’t have the right letters after my name > > to get another job in social work which pays as well as this one does, > > so I’m considering going back to work as a paralegal for a law firm. > > Depending on the type of law, the job could be fulfilling, but not > > nearly as fulfilling as social work.  <Sigh> > > > Tamara > > — > > What would a chair look like if your knees bent the other way? > ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- > http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

– Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

I know a lot of kind, generous, wealthy people.  But I know more wealthy people who are complete, non-feeling nincompoops, too self-absorbed to notice the other side.  I, myself, am not wealthy by any means.  But I’m comfortable and I don’t go without.  I still remind myself that there are others who are praying for food and warmth–not for a new Stealth. I think there’s where the differences are.  I have friends who are attorneys; I regularly network with wealthy store owners.  I’m not embarrassed to pick up the phone and ask someone for help for a client (plane ticket, shoes, help with dental work, etc.)  Most of the people I call help out and do so with a generous, loving heart.  I think greed affects both the affluent and the poor, as does Grace. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -urf wrote: > >I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > >needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > >not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house. > Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved > financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you > should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your > prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from > your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain. > Oceanmomma wrote: > > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > > >Kimberlee, > > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > > >make > > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > > >evitsky > > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > > needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > > not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, > > everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate > > better.

– Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

I’m actually thinking of law school, with a focus on family & immigrant law.  YEARS later…I may be able to do what I want…but of course, gotta’ pay those school loans! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote: > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > >Kimberlee, > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > >make > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > >evitsky > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, > everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate > better.

– Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

Binky Barnes wrote: > A terrific service you provide.  

Thank you! > I’ve used sexual assault counselors/advocates when I’ve had clients who’d been > assaulted.

I think that trained, skilled counselors make a huge difference, for both the victim, and the prosecution. > Tough stuff to deal with.

Yup.  The sexual assault cases aren’t as tough on me as the *children’s* SA cases. > I’ve also been involved with the somewhat "cloak and dagger" process of > sheltering.  Helped one client get to a local shelter (DAWN-Domestic Abuse > Women’s Network, a terrific organization).  They answer the phone "Dawn’s > house."  They give no address, list no location and you meet them at a > neutral location, which changes.  It’s a good setup, run entirely by women, > for women and their children.

Safer that way.  I once had a guy come to our shelter (its address is well known), carrying a gun & gun clip, asking for me by name.  Talk about Heebie-Jeebies! — Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

TYounger wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, > so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things > about people and their careers: > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the hospital when someone is sexually assaulted. > What made you choose this career?

I am a Christian.  I want to give back to God some of what He has given me. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Definitely not money.  But at the end of every day, I’ve felt that I’ve done something to help someone else.  And, especially during the holidays, I am reminded by this when I receive Christmas cards from women who are doing well now, but who were formerly in very lethal situations. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

Pretty significantly.  I am good at what I do, and I love helping other people. > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

Right now, I am at my lowest point.  I am thinking of leaving my job (internal politics got me down).  The job itself is extremely stressful; I’ve been threatened by abusive men, I’ve been followed around town and in stores; and it’s exhausting always feeling "on your guard."  The main responsibility I have is being "right" in the work I do; I can’t afford to mis-state anything; I can’t cross the line and give legal advice; I can’t show frustration or allow my own feelings into my work.  And now, I have to watch my back.  I don’t have the right letters after my name to get another job in social work which pays as well as this one does, so I’m considering going back to work as a paralegal for a law firm. Depending on the type of law, the job could be fulfilling, but not nearly as fulfilling as social work.  <Sigh> > Tamara

– What would a chair look like if your knees bent the other way?

Response:

> So, the moral of this story is don’t get into programming, train horses > instead.

LOL, I was headed in a programming direction, then took a job in technical support for an internet service provider instead.   What made me laugh though.. I used to rodeo when I was a teenager, I had a horse that was supposed to be broken, but she was more green, and I thought her how to run barrels and poles.  Even won a couple of amatuer horseraces with her.  I absolutely love horses, and have been talking to SO about getting enough land so I might have another someday. Tamara

Response:

In article <36923F41.F8DF4…@nowhere.com>,   dana <d…@nowhere.com> wrote: Hi Dana, > > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? > Product Development Engineer (programmer).  Write programs/scripts for > whatever needs to be written. > > What made you choose this career? > I didn’t really choose it.  I just kept doing things related to my BS (MA/CS) > that increased my paycheck.  If I had my druthers I would be training horses.

Training horses would be fun too but I wouldn’t do that for a living. > > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > > helping others, etc) > Money and to a very limited degree self-esteem.  I used to derive a great > deal of self-esteem and fulfillment from my career but now I realize that > there are so many more interesting and fulfilling things that I would rather > be doing. > > How do you feel your career impacts others? > In a very limited way.  Perhaps a script that I write will make another > person’s job easier but that is about it.

I think being able to make other people’s job easier is not limited at all. > > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > > career? > The lowest point was about a few months ago when I realized (after 2 and 1/2 > years) that my boss was completely sexist and that my lack of a promotion was > solely based on discrimination.  It was a clasic case of sexual > discrimination with a little sexual harrassment thrown in for good measure. > I wasn’t so upset that he did this to me as I was upset that this even goes > on.  It took me a very long time to realize and accept what was happening > because I thought that discrimination was something that only happened years > ago and that people who claim discrimination now are those who don’t work > hard enough. Boy was I wrong.

That really sucks. But there are lots of companies where discrimination doesn’t exist. And fortunately mine is one of them. There are quite a few female executives who used to be programmers. And never once did I see any sign of discrimination in any group that I worked in and know of. > So, needless to say, the highest part of my career was when I handed in my > resignation (4 days notice and my boss said to me, "What am I going to do > about project X?" and I said, "Well maybe you should have thought about that > before."  That was a GREAT feeling.  However, this story has an even happier > ending because I landed a job very close to home with stock options and for > much more money.

Good for you > So, the moral of this story is don’t get into programming, train horses > instead.

Hah I think how well you do in your field is more important than which field you are in. I chose to be a programmer solely because I love programming. I love the feelings when I get a program to work and watch it do things I wanted it to. And I am happy to be one. I am only happy doing things that I like as a career. If I liked training horses more I would make it my career. I used to have very high self esteem but recently I just changed group and I now have a bit less People in this group are much more compotent. But this is just temporary. I am sure I’ll catch up. I’ve only been working for a year, after all. Happy coding, Ang > Good luck, > Dana

———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

> What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

Product Development Engineer (programmer).  Write programs/scripts for whatever needs to be written. > What made you choose this career?

I didn’t really choose it.  I just kept doing things related to my BS (MA/CS) that increased my paycheck.  If I had my druthers I would be training horses. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Money and to a very limited degree self-esteem.  I used to derive a great deal of self-esteem and fulfillment from my career but now I realize that there are so many more interesting and fulfilling things that I would rather be doing. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

In a very limited way.  Perhaps a script that I write will make another person’s job easier but that is about it. > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

The lowest point was about a few months ago when I realized (after 2 and 1/2 years) that my boss was completely sexist and that my lack of a promotion was solely based on discrimination.  It was a clasic case of sexual discrimination with a little sexual harrassment thrown in for good measure. I wasn’t so upset that he did this to me as I was upset that this even goes on.  It took me a very long time to realize and accept what was happening because I thought that discrimination was something that only happened years ago and that people who claim discrimination now are those who don’t work hard enough. Boy was I wrong. So, needless to say, the highest part of my career was when I handed in my resignation (4 days notice and my boss said to me, "What am I going to do about project X?" and I said, "Well maybe you should have thought about that before."  That was a GREAT feeling.  However, this story has an even happier ending because I landed a job very close to home with stock options and for much more money. So, the moral of this story is don’t get into programming, train horses instead. Good luck, Dana

Response:

comments below TYounger wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, > so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.

Congrats Tamara!!  :-) > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

Small Business Owner–computers (mainly hardware and networking).Responsibilities:  Pretty much running the whole business.  It’s mine and my husband’s, but my husband works f/t in addition, so I pretty much am the only one here all day (besides our p/t h.s. kid).  So, that said, accounting, upgrading, repairing, building and networking customer’s systems, purchasing, human resources (for my employee of one, hehe), customer service, marketing, etc etc etc. > What made you choose this career?

My husband was into computers with his career and as a hobby.  When we married, I also got into it as a hobby….  When there were no computer stores we liked locally to support our hobby with, we decided to open our own… and tada!!  I was a paralegal for a Japanese Patent Law Firm out in DC and Allan was working in Web Engineering for UUNet/WorldCom/MCI conglomerate.  He made more money and had better benefits than me, so we decided it would be best if I left my job and ran the business.  Best decision of my life.  :-) > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Definately not the money part.  hahahahaha.  ;-)  I’m not taking a pay at the moment, since we’re only a year old.  So I would have to go with fulfillment, helping others, and fun.  I absolutely *love* going onsite and networking, personally.  It’s so amazing.  You have a small business who has 5 computers that don’t communicate with eachother… you hook them up and get them communicating with eachother and with the rest of the world (we also do internet consulting when we do networking.  It’s amazing!  I love it. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

Help small businesses use their computers more efficiently.  And help some even get computers to begin with.  :-) > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

Lowest:  International customer used a stolen credit card to purchase items from us.  $3,000.00 worth of items.  Our credit card processing bank took the money back from us when they realized it was a stolen card and the customer got to keep the mercandise.  (they are in russia).  I felt so helpless. Noone would help me.  Our credit card company was a total bust.  And the Russian Embasy would not help us contact police in russia. Highest:  When I finally realized I knew how to build a whole system myself….  ;-)  (remember, I started this business coming from a legal background only a year ago). –roseanne — Roseanne Liska @ Spectrum Computers http://www.spectrum-computers.com http://www.webcreations-va.com mailto:rosea…@spectrum-computers.com Affordable Hardware, Networking, Web Hosting and Design From the Desk of Toto:  Hated Oz, Took the Shoes, Went Home!!

Response:

You know….you have a lot of stress like I do.  It’s those moments where you get notes that tell how much you’ve taught them…and how they hear you speaking to them when they in a trying situation…and it did a great deal of good to "hear that little voice"….it’s those things that make the stress worth it.  I think I would like to TRY teaching….(visit)…..but I wouldn’t want to live there.  I don’t have a whole lot of patience for kids…that’s why I only have one.  But I think it would be cool for a while.                                     ISIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -misscee wrote in message … >(TYounger) wrote: >> What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? >Middle grade teacher of math, science, house (team) leader, science >department co-chair, tech support person. If you are thinking of >education, email me, cuz I could go on and on and on about what I do. >> What made you choose this career? >I was a sales rep and volunteering in my daughter’s classroom. I found I >just loved being in the classroom, surrounded by kids and I went back to >school to get certified to teach. >> What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my >> helping others, etc) >I can create my own little world…I love being in my room, fixing it up, >finding fun lessons to do, interacting with the kids, learning new things. >The money is decent and I get plenty of time off, (but I don’t take it.) >> How do you feel your career impacts others? >I’m a role model for girls, who think that women aren’t good at math, >computers, and science. >> What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your >> career? >The stress is awful. I am responsible for being in school and "on" every >day. If I’m sick I still have to prepare plans for the substitute. As a >science teacher I have to get to school early to set up for labs. It’s >physically taxing, and the students’ disrespect wears you down. The >paperwork is tremendous. Too many meetings (I meet, therefore, I am.) But >then I get these notes from my students about what I  mean to them which >makes it all worthwhile. >I keep saying I’m going to go back into sales (educational technology) >Miss Cee

Response:

I do now, because it is a brand new store / crew / management team.  I had the other store set that I worked only 9 hour days (the usual in this business is 10-14).  Plus, as long as there was staff, I could schedule myself long weekends and stuff.  It will take a little while to get this one up to speed.  It would be bad if I had to work nights.  That is hard on a family; but I don’t have to.  My days off are always together.  For a restaurant manager, I’ve got it pretty easy.  It is a very good position to be in when you have family wanting a little part time money.  Everyone has a job.  LOL  I can’t wait to bring my son into it.  He is only 10…but he can’t wait either.  He has even helped me figure out solutions to some problems I’ve had there.  I guess he’s been paying attention to all the talking I’ve been doing about "doing the job right…this employee is great…they did this, and this, and this"….he wants to help me.  I think that’s great.  I really think it is an age sensitive career, because of the pace.  I imagine I will grow out of it eventually and then go into strictly classroom training for them.                                     ISIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -misscee wrote in message … >"ISIS"  wrote: >> ISIS:  restaurant manager. >My husband was a restaurant manager for many years. Do you work a lot of >hours? That was really the biggest problem we had with the job. Other than >that it was great. I used to work part time for him doing odds and ends >which worked out well when the kids were babies. >Miss Cee

Response:

TYounger wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, > so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things > about people and their careers: > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

Copywriter, I write everything businesses need, from feature articles to sales brochures to print ads to direct-mail pieces like catalogs. > What made you choose this career?

I’ve almost always known I wanted to be a writer, this is a good way to do that for a living. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Then money is enough for me, but mainly I love it for the flexibility and creativity. The flexibility allows me my other "career", to travel all over the US to race. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

It really doesn’t, except sometimes I feel like an ad slut ("buy this, your life won’t be complete without it"). Now that racing is winding down for me, I’m looking at other places to put my energy for just this reason — just mailed off an application for an evening law school program (so I can keep working). > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

Highest is almost every day, I love what I do. Lowest, I guess, was doing jobs I didn’t like so I could pay the bills while I built up a big enough freelance portfolio to get a "real" job.

Response:

Question:

I am vacationing in Gaspe, Que. during the next few weeks, and I would like to do some fly fishing. Can anyone suggest possible locations or offer other       advice?

Response:

MWI am vacationing in Gaspe, Que. during the next few weeks, and I MWwould like to do some fly fishing. Can anyone suggest possible MWlocations or offer other advice? I ventured blindly into that region two years ago and had a nightmarish experience due to lack of preperation and research. The rivers are fantastic, the salmon extrordinary, and the local residents very friendly. However. . . The regulations concerning fishing in Gaspe, Quebec are very complicated and seriously enforced to protect the salmon fishery. Violation of the regulations means seizure of all fishing tackle, large fines, and seizure of ANY vehicle used to transport the violator to the scene of the crime (car, trailer, boat, plane) so be very carefull. In an area with 50 percent unemployment, wardens do everything possible to keep their jobs! There are many great rivers in zone 1 (Gaspe) but access to them is done by lottery each spring. Forget getting a salmon license for 1993, and concentrate on trout and char fishing in Parks Canada areas or private access lakes controlled by local ZECs (long story). Also note that local fish and game officials have french as their first, and sometimes only language, so you should call first or stick to federally run parks where all employees are bilingual and fishing regulations are different from the rest of the region. Here are some numbers you should contact before arriving, so that you will not have overly high expectations: Government of Canada For federal information on tourism in Quebec call 1-800-363-7777 or 1-514-873-2015. They can direct you only to federally controlled lands in the Gaspe. Gouvernment du Quebec For provincially supplied info on fishing, contact the MLCP (Ministry of leisure, hunting and fishing) at the following numbers. Note that at some regional locations you may have to specifically ask the person to speak english, as they are not allowed to do so until the moment you ask the question (long story). Montreal (english info gaurenteed) 1-514-374-2417 Gaspe (probably english) 1-418-368-3444 New Richmond (probably english) 1-418-392-4436 Matane (maybe) 1-418-566-2618 Despite all my gloom and doom, visiting the Gaspe is a joy, and fishing in the Gaspe region is such a superb experience that every year I enter the lottery hoping for a chance to fish the best holes on the best rivers. Regards, Bob Beaupre                                     Documents Plus Beaconsfield, Quebec * DeLuxe2 1.26b #7029 * Was Roy Rodgers a Trigger Happy Cowboy? —- XON/XOFF Information Service              |  Sales and service of hardware a division of XON/XOFF Computer Solutions |  & software for all OS’s. Montreal, Canada                          |  RealWorld Accounting Software

Response: