Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tracey wrote: > Amy Lou wrote: >> "MsLiz"  wrote: >>> I can’t relate to the material possession part of your post since I’ve >>> always done "without" most of my life…childhood and adulthood.  As >>> I’ve written in another posts, vacations are like a foreign language >>> and I still have two ancient, ugly and beginning to rip couches. >> Well, I have heard many stories of men who get jack of their wives shopping >> sprees. lol. Apparently there are women out there who go shopping whenever >> they feel like a lift, and I mean shopping for a new couch, not shopping for >> a chocolate bar. >> I’ve heard many women described as high maintenance because they are needy >> or cost a lot of money but I think it is fair to say that there must be >> equal numbers of men like that. > You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > your attention. > Tracey

That’s what I thought it meant too.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -*Calinda* wrote: > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:52:04 GMT, Tracey wrote: >> You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I >> don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use >> it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly >> in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your >> energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- >> tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of >> them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right >> there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of >> your attention. > Wow.. you’ve just described my ex.  I never used the term ‘high > maintenance’ on him.. but shoot.. he sure was, lol. He acted as if I was > there simply to serve his needs, regardless of what those needs were. > If he was off doing something and called out to me, god *forbid* if he had > to call a second time regardless of what it was I happened to be doing at > the time.  I needed to respond, immediately or there was hell to pay.  And > by response, I don’t mean by replying in kind (calling out).. I had to > rush to his side to see what he needed/wanted.

THAT is abuse.    But – just for the record – you didn’t HAVE to rush to his side, but you obviously know that now.    (you enabled that, indirectly) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Cal~ > Calinda dot Letter S at Gmail dot com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -*Calinda* wrote: > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:51:02 GMT, Bill in Co. wrote: >>> If he was off doing something and called out to me, god *forbid* if >>> he had to call a second time regardless of what it was I happened to >>> be doing at the time.  I needed to respond, immediately or there was >>> hell to pay.  And by response, I don’t mean by replying in kind >>> (calling out).. I had to rush to his side to see what he >>> needed/wanted. >> THAT is abuse.    But – just for the record – you didn’t HAVE to rush >> to his side, but you obviously know that now.    (you enabled that, >> indirectly) > Sure, I didn’t have to, but I would’ve heard about it for a long, long > time.. and would’ve had to listen to his P & M about it, etc..  sure I > didn’t HAVE to, as I see now.. but back then.. that was the way it was. > There weren’t options as far as I could see, he had all the options.  He > had me convinced of that…

That is sad.   In his case, it probably built up to the nth degree, and at the time, and given your history, you probably couldn’t "check" him on it. What still bothers me is the emotional abuse between him and his daughter – I feel bad for your daughter when I think about this.   I hope it’s not too late, and she sees some good guy models, but still, a dad is in a special place, and THAT hurts (when I think about the damage HE has done to her) > SO is so incredibly different than the ex.  I know they say you tend to > gravitate towards the same kind of person, but I dunno.  Ex was just like > my dad.. I see little to nothing similar between Ex/Dad and SO.  Thank > God.

You have probably "moved on", past this, and have learned something in the process – painfully learned it.   That’s probably why (I’d guess)    I don’t think we are necessarily doomed to repeat everything – all our past mistakes.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Seeker wrote: > In article <1104203703.434496.288…@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, > MsLiz <care…@msn.com> wrote: >> I find that both my husband and I each need different things from each >> other.  And to get really technical, I think that that those are the >> things that we didn’t get in childhood.  Neither of us are big on >> material possessions (except for the damn truck of his) but both of us >> have emotional needs that are sometimes unrealistic to expect to >> receive from one person.  While both of us were raised incredibly >> differently (he was raised spoiled, was very smart but was criticized >> if he got ruined his perfect A’s by getting a B, his mother spoiled him >> by doing everything for him and not teaching him to do anything and >> money was never an issue, he got all that he wanted-except for >> unconditonal love from his parents).  I was raised NOT spoiled, rarely >> got what I wanted, I was abused, put down all the time, told I was >> ugly, fresh and unappreciative, I had to work for what I wanted, was >> never told I was loved and only got attention when I sick and that >> would only last a day or two. > Interesting.  In many ways my background is a lot like your husband’s, > and yours like my wife’s.  And yet — I think you and I are more like > each other than either of us is like the other’s spouse. > Ted

Some people see receiving gifts as proof of love, others see it as wastefulness.  This was the "Five Languages of Love" mentioned a while back.  (The book of his that i have summarizes the whole concept in one page.  I don’t see how he could write a whole book about it.) Doug. — ICQ Number 178748389. Registered Linux User No. 277548. It’s not whether you win or lose.  It’s where you place the blame.

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"Tracey" <rbranch…@aol.com> wrote in > You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > your attention.

To me a high maintenance person is as you just described. I think often (or even just sometimes) they are an irrational spender as well. A high maintenance partner spends their partner’s money to ensure that their partner is giving them the attention that they believe they deserve. To you and me they don’t really need all the things that they buy but to them they do, just like they need the spouse that is upstairs to rush down to greet them. Amy

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> > IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > > in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > > energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > > tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > > them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > > there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > > your attention. > To me a high maintenance person is as you just described. I think often (or > even just sometimes) they are an irrational spender as well. A high > maintenance partner spends their partner’s money to ensure that their > partner is giving them the attention that they believe they deserve. To you > and me they don’t really need all the things that they buy but to them they > do, just like they need the spouse that is upstairs to rush down to greet > them.

While I think the 1st definition makes a great baseline definition, I think that an expanded defininition is also appropriate.  One that alludes to any high expenditure of "personal overhead".

Response:

Often, it seems, one partner requires more ‘maintenance’ than the other. This often causes an imbalance in the relationship that leads to resentment. The partner that needs the extra attention (often this includes material possessions) will be satisfied for a while before asking again and again and again. Eventually the other partner gets jack of it. Any comments? Amy

Response:

"Tracey" <rbranch…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:41D19D46.3070104@aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Amy Lou wrote: > > "MsLiz"  wrote: > >>I can’t relate to the material possession part of your post since I’ve > >>always done "without" most of my life…childhood and adulthood.  As > >>I’ve written in another posts, vacations are like a foreign language > >>and I still have two ancient, ugly and beginning to rip couches. > > Well, I have heard many stories of men who get jack of their wives shopping > > sprees. lol. Apparently there are women out there who go shopping whenever > > they feel like a lift, and I mean shopping for a new couch, not shopping for > > a chocolate bar. > > I’ve heard many women described as high maintenance because they are needy > > or cost a lot of money but I think it is fair to say that there must be > > equal numbers of men like that. > You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > your attention.

Those people need to get a dog!

Response:

"*Calinda*" <CalindaDotLett…@gmailRemove.com> wrote in message

news:Xns95D195024BEFC19599491@130.133.1.4… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:52:04 GMT, Tracey wrote: > > You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > > don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > > it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > > in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > > energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > > tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > > them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > > there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > > your attention. > Wow.. you’ve just described my ex.  I never used the term ‘high > maintenance’ on him.. but shoot.. he sure was, lol. He acted as if I was > there simply to serve his needs, regardless of what those needs were. > If he was off doing something and called out to me, god *forbid* if he had > to call a second time regardless of what it was I happened to be doing at > the time.  I needed to respond, immediately or there was hell to pay.  And > by response, I don’t mean by replying in kind (calling out).. I had to > rush to his side to see what he needed/wanted.

Ugh. My DH hollers from the other room. Makes me crazy. I just don’t respond. I am not hollering back. But we are talking about two different things here. My DH will walk over and say why didn’t you answer? I will say I did not hear what you were saying and was not about to shout back. And he says Oh, yeah. Sounds like your DH was not very "D." But I guess I have said that before. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Cal~ > Calinda dot Letter S at Gmail dot com

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Tine wrote: > If someone demands money spent on them as proof > that you love them, then that’s high maintainance > not just financially but also emotionally –

Actually, there’s a good point here. Maintenance, when you come right down to it, can be equated to HDP/LDP issues even though we’re not talking sex here–  but it’s along another axis of the "10 needs" as Marriage Builders has listed. Financial maintenance isn’t even one of the more common versions;  almost any kind of "demand for attention" can be equated since attention can be considered a generic term. Sexually, I’d likely be exceptionally high maintenance and, because of that annoying to my partner. We all desire some kind of attention that sets us "apart" and helps to feel "special"… or even minimally appreciated. — Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/  Leadership is about maximizing gains, Management about minimizing losses.  This explains why managers like to hire accountants and keep them busy. -me  "There _is_ a reason ideology rhymes with idiocy, you know." – me

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"Amy Lou" <amylou…@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:QMkAd.92185$K7.73791@news-server.bigpond.net.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Tracey" <rbranch…@aol.com> wrote in > > You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > > don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > > it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > > in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > > energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > > tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > > them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > > there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > > your attention. > To me a high maintenance person is as you just described. I think often (or > even just sometimes) they are an irrational spender as well. A high > maintenance partner spends their partner’s money to ensure that their > partner is giving them the attention that they believe they deserve. To you > and me they don’t really need all the things that they buy but to them they > do, just like they need the spouse that is upstairs to rush down to greet > them. > Amy

That’s exactly what I was thinking. My ex wanted every peny of our rather low income spent on him.  Literally. He would buy expensive role play systems and books, survival tools and camping equipment that never, ever got used, expensive gifts for his family because he wanted to give to them (but I couldn’t give to mine.) If I asked for a book that I needed for my college course, and that cost a tenner, he would complain and possibly allow it, possibly not.  If it was allowed I would end up feeling so much guilt because he was sacrificing something he wanted to help me to study. I know some stereotypes of, say, women wanting expensive gifts all the time, or guys who have hobbies that cost a ton – my husband and I both like computers a lot, and the way we work it he gets the upgrades and I get his old bits.  Since we upgrade every couple of months we both have good machines, but if I wanted to I could complain and call him high maintainance.  I don’t, though, because while we spend all our disposable income on one thing, there’s no pressure. I’m about to get a tattoo removed (it didn’t alter with my body very well when I lost a lot of weight through illness – shame, cause it was a gorgeous tattoo) and he isn’t complaining at having to forgoe an upgrade for a few months to allow me to pay in advance for the treatment.  My ex would have probably forbidden the removal as an unecessary expense. If someone demands money spent on them as proof that you love them, then that’s high maintainance not just financially but also emotionally – EVERYONE needs something at some point, and if you feel bad about spending anything (when I came off the pill I was made to feel bad about needing to spend money on tampons when my period restarted, because the weekly shopping bill went up, thats how basic this is), I know for me it was a huge drain with the feelings of anger and guilt at the same time. — Tine

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -MsLiz wrote: > Tracey wrote: >> Doug Anderson wrote: >>>> You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I >>>> don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use >>>> it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly >>>> in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your >>>> energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- >>>> tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of >>>> them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right >>>> there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of >>>> your attention. >>> I didn’t realize you’d met my sister, Tracey! >> Heh. I don’t ‘do’ high maintenance people well. And, even >> less well do I handle people who have been used to being around >> or being in a relationship with high maintenance people. For the >> first few years of our marriage, I would be sitting/laying on >> the couch reading a book or doing a puzzle magazine or watching >> a show that I KNEW my husband didn’t like. He would just sit there. >> I would be like ‘Gawd. Go *do* something. Play your guitar. Get >> your own book. Mess around on the computer.’ For a long time, his >> response would be ‘No, because if you want to do something later, >> I have to be ‘ready’.’ >> Sheesh. >> Tracey > You’d just looooooooove my husband Tracy.  When I’m watching some > mindless trashy stupid movie (being completely aware that it’s stupid > and all I’m doing is trying NOT to think), my husband will plop down on > the bed and watch it with me, interjecting comments that make fun of > it.  It amazes me to no end.

That would sure bug me, Caren.   IF it bugs you, you need to set a boundary there, and tell him it bothers you!    Don’t let that one slide by … TOO!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While I hate football, the last thing > that I want to do is plop down on the couch and watch it with him and > make comments about it.  The big difference between the two of us is he > sees it as entertainment (football) and not escape.  I see what both of > us choose as escape. > There is a fine line between the two words, isn’t there?  Reading > books, watching movies, watching reality tv, etc.  Is there really a > difference?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tracey wrote: > Doug Anderson wrote: > >>You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > >>don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > >>it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > >>in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > >>energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > >>tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > >>them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > >>there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > >>your attention. > > I didn’t realize you’d met my sister, Tracey! > Heh. I don’t ‘do’ high maintenance people well. And, even > less well do I handle people who have been used to being around > or being in a relationship with high maintenance people. For the > first few years of our marriage, I would be sitting/laying on > the couch reading a book or doing a puzzle magazine or watching > a show that I KNEW my husband didn’t like. He would just sit there. > I would be like ‘Gawd. Go *do* something. Play your guitar. Get > your own book. Mess around on the computer.’ For a long time, his > response would be ‘No, because if you want to do something later, > I have to be ‘ready’.’ > Sheesh. > Tracey

You’d just looooooooove my husband Tracy.  When I’m watching some mindless trashy stupid movie (being completely aware that it’s stupid and all I’m doing is trying NOT to think), my husband will plop down on the bed and watch it with me, interjecting comments that make fun of it.  It amazes me to no end.  While I hate football, the last thing that I want to do is plop down on the couch and watch it with him and make comments about it.  The big difference between the two of us is he sees it as entertainment (football) and not escape.  I see what both of us choose as escape. There is a fine line between the two words, isn’t there?  Reading books, watching movies, watching reality tv, etc.  Is there really a difference?

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Doug Anderson wrote: >>You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I >>don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use >>it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly >>in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your >>energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- >>tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of >>them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right >>there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of >>your attention. > I didn’t realize you’d met my sister, Tracey!

Heh. I don’t ‘do’ high maintenance people well. And, even less well do I handle people who have been used to being around or being in a relationship with high maintenance people. For the first few years of our marriage, I would be sitting/laying on the couch reading a book or doing a puzzle magazine or watching a show that I KNEW my husband didn’t like. He would just sit there. I would be like ‘Gawd. Go *do* something. Play your guitar. Get your own book. Mess around on the computer.’ For a long time, his response would be ‘No, because if you want to do something later, I have to be ‘ready’.’ Sheesh. Tracey

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"MsLiz" <care…@msn.com> writes: > Tracey wrote: > > Doug Anderson wrote: > > >>You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > > >>don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > > >>it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is > constantly > > >>in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of > your > > >>energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > > >>tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > > >>them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t > right > > >>there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > > >>your attention. > > > I didn’t realize you’d met my sister, Tracey! > > Heh. I don’t ‘do’ high maintenance people well. And, even > > less well do I handle people who have been used to being around > > or being in a relationship with high maintenance people. For the > > first few years of our marriage, I would be sitting/laying on > > the couch reading a book or doing a puzzle magazine or watching > > a show that I KNEW my husband didn’t like. He would just sit there. > > I would be like ‘Gawd. Go *do* something. Play your guitar. Get > > your own book. Mess around on the computer.’ For a long time, his > > response would be ‘No, because if you want to do something later, > > I have to be ‘ready’.’ > > Sheesh. > > Tracey > You’d just looooooooove my husband Tracy.  When I’m watching some > mindless trashy stupid movie (being completely aware that it’s stupid > and all I’m doing is trying NOT to think), my husband will plop down on > the bed and watch it with me, interjecting comments that make fun of > it.  It amazes me to no end.  While I hate football, the last thing > that I want to do is plop down on the couch and watch it with him and > make comments about it.  The big difference between the two of us is he > sees it as entertainment (football) and not escape.  I see what both of > us choose as escape. > There is a fine line between the two words, isn’t there?  Reading > books, watching movies, watching reality tv, etc.  Is there really a > difference?

Well,  I can’t tell the difference between watching football and any other trashy TV.   But I think there are differences between entertainments which engage your mind, and entertainments which don’t.  These differences don’t have to do (at least for me) with different media   (TV can engage your mind or not,  books can engage your mind or not) but with differences of quality.         Doug

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In article <1e2Ad.90773$K7….@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Amy Lou" <amylou…@bigpond.com> wrote: >Often, it seems, one partner requires more ‘maintenance’ than the other. >This often causes an imbalance in the relationship that leads to resentment. >The partner that needs the extra attention (often this includes material >possessions) will be satisfied for a while before asking again and again and >again. Eventually the other partner gets jack of it.

My husband and i each have our "high maintenance" areas.  It seems to balance out.  He tolerates my stuff, i tolerate his.  works for us.

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Amy Lou wrote: > Often, it seems, one partner requires more ‘maintenance’ than the other. > This often causes an imbalance in the relationship that leads to resentment. > The partner that needs the extra attention (often this includes material > possessions) will be satisfied for a while before asking again and again and > again. Eventually the other partner gets jack of it. > Any comments? > Amy

I find that both my husband and I each need different things from each other.  And to get really technical, I think that that those are the things that we didn’t get in childhood.  Neither of us are big on material possessions (except for the damn truck of his) but both of us have emotional needs that are sometimes unrealistic to expect to receive from one person.  While both of us were raised incredibly differently (he was raised spoiled, was very smart but was criticized if he got ruined his perfect A’s by getting a B, his mother spoiled him by doing everything for him and not teaching him to do anything and money was never an issue, he got all that he wanted-except for unconditonal love from his parents).  I was raised NOT spoiled, rarely got what I wanted, I was abused, put down all the time, told I was ugly, fresh and unappreciative, I had to work for what I wanted, was never told I was loved and only got attention when I sick and that would only last a day or two. As a result of those issues and several others, we each have different needs.  On occassion I do feel like he depends on me for his self esteem, but I don’t feel resentful.  At times I believe that he wishes that I loved living here and that it weren’t an issue for us.  I don’t know how you can’t expect to marry someone and think that no baggage will be arriving with him/her. I can’t relate to the material possession part of your post since I’ve always done "without" most of my life…childhood and adulthood.  As I’ve written in another posts, vacations are like a foreign language and I still have two ancient, ugly and beginning to rip couches.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tracey <rbranch…@aol.com> writes: > Amy Lou wrote: > > "MsLiz"  wrote: > >>I can’t relate to the material possession part of your post since I’ve > >>always done "without" most of my life…childhood and adulthood.  As > >>I’ve written in another posts, vacations are like a foreign language > >>and I still have two ancient, ugly and beginning to rip couches. > > Well, I have heard many stories of men who get jack of their wives > > shopping sprees. lol. Apparently there are women out there who go > > shopping whenever they feel like a lift, and I mean shopping for a > > new couch, not shopping for a chocolate bar. > > I’ve heard many women described as high maintenance because they are > > needy or cost a lot of money but I think it is fair to say that > > there must be equal numbers of men like that. > You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I > don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use > it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly > in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your > energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- > tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of > them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right > there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of > your attention.

I didn’t realize you’d met my sister, Tracey!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Amy Lou wrote: > "MsLiz"  wrote: >>I can’t relate to the material possession part of your post since I’ve >>always done "without" most of my life…childhood and adulthood.  As >>I’ve written in another posts, vacations are like a foreign language >>and I still have two ancient, ugly and beginning to rip couches. > Well, I have heard many stories of men who get jack of their wives shopping > sprees. lol. Apparently there are women out there who go shopping whenever > they feel like a lift, and I mean shopping for a new couch, not shopping for > a chocolate bar. > I’ve heard many women described as high maintenance because they are needy > or cost a lot of money but I think it is fair to say that there must be > equal numbers of men like that.

You know what, Amy? You’re using ‘high maintenance’ in a way that I don’t use it and in a way that I don’t ever recall anyone else use it either. IME, a ‘high maintenance’ person is one who is constantly in need of reassurance, of attention, of being right, of all of your energy. They are people who, if you’re upstairs involved in an ac- tivity that has your complete attention and you miss the sound of them coming in the door, will be offended/hurt that you aren’t right there to greet them and fawn over them and make them the center of your attention. Tracey

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"MsLiz"  wrote: > I can’t relate to the material possession part of your post since I’ve > always done "without" most of my life…childhood and adulthood.  As > I’ve written in another posts, vacations are like a foreign language > and I still have two ancient, ugly and beginning to rip couches.

Well, I have heard many stories of men who get jack of their wives shopping sprees. lol. Apparently there are women out there who go shopping whenever they feel like a lift, and I mean shopping for a new couch, not shopping for a chocolate bar. I’ve heard many women described as high maintenance because they are needy or cost a lot of money but I think it is fair to say that there must be equal numbers of men like that. Amy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Amy Lou wrote: > "MsLiz"  wrote: > > I can’t relate to the material possession part of your post since I’ve > > always done "without" most of my life…childhood and adulthood. As > > I’ve written in another posts, vacations are like a foreign language > > and I still have two ancient, ugly and beginning to rip couches. > Well, I have heard many stories of men who get jack of their wives shopping > sprees. lol. Apparently there are women out there who go shopping whenever > they feel like a lift, and I mean shopping for a new couch, not shopping for > a chocolate bar. > I’ve heard many women described as high maintenance because they are needy > or cost a lot of money but I think it is fair to say that there must be > equal numbers of men like that. > Amy

As I said in another post, my husband is the "spender".  I do think that that there is a bit of a stereotypical myth as far as women who spend all of their time shopping.  Of course there are compulsive shoppers and those are people who genuinely have a problem and cause family problems- men and women.

Response:

In article <1104203703.434496.288…@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -MsLiz <care…@msn.com> wrote: > I find that both my husband and I each need different things from each > other.  And to get really technical, I think that that those are the > things that we didn’t get in childhood.  Neither of us are big on > material possessions (except for the damn truck of his) but both of us > have emotional needs that are sometimes unrealistic to expect to > receive from one person.  While both of us were raised incredibly > differently (he was raised spoiled, was very smart but was criticized > if he got ruined his perfect A’s by getting a B, his mother spoiled him > by doing everything for him and not teaching him to do anything and > money was never an issue, he got all that he wanted-except for > unconditonal love from his parents).  I was raised NOT spoiled, rarely > got what I wanted, I was abused, put down all the time, told I was > ugly, fresh and unappreciative, I had to work for what I wanted, was > never told I was loved and only got attention when I sick and that > would only last a day or two.

Interesting.  In many ways my background is a lot like your husband’s, and yours like my wife’s.  And yet — I think you and I are more like each other than either of us is like the other’s spouse. Ted

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Bryan Did you put money into the corporation to get it started? No – I didn’t need to – it’s an Internet business, and the startup costs were out of pocket. I didn’t want to waste any time setting up until I knew it would work. It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income. Yes – that’s OK with me – I’m not trying to avoid taxes – yet Now if I need to draw money from the company, I just set up a dummy account and let the attorney figure out where and how it should be handled each quarter.  And it usually means I owe taxes, FICA and other things on it.  So if I need 5 grand, I’ll pull 6 instead and drop the 1 grand into a savings account to pay the income taxes when they come due each quarter. OK, thanks. A previous poster (John) suggested a "suspense" account. Bryan

Bryan, I’ll say this to you once. Based on their posts here, neither Deutschmann nor John know enough about tax law or your situation to give you useful advice. Based on your earlier posts, you aren’t interested in following this advice but here it is again anyway. Hire a local tax professional who specializes in business taxation, particularly closely held corporations. If you don’t you risk very bad surprises. For example, based on your cavalier manner of drawing funds and (apparently) having those draws characterized as salary, you could wake up one day and find that an IRS auditor has recharacterized your salary as dividends. Bingo – your corporation owes back taxes and you, personally, are entitled to no refund. Good luck.

Response:

Well then, we’ll just have to wait for the CPA’s to pipe in on this.

I am a CPA. You are saying that personal monies invested in a private company is stuck there forever and that when you want it back you have to pay income taxes on money that you have already paid taxes on.  What happens

I’m saying the "strategy" you and Deutschmann recommended will not work for the original poster based on the clear facts he provided. The profits or regular corporations are taxed twice in the U.S. There are ways to get money out that legally avoids that costly outcome but neither you nor Deutschmann described one that will work for the original poster. if you can only get 50% of your money back?  Or none at all?  The company goes bankrupt?  Are you allowed a Capital Loss?  Do you know what Capital Gains are?  Could the CPA’s comment on this?  I do own a company (5 of us) and I do have a Capital Share plus due to shareholders structure and I can’t wait to find out what the answer is… although I have already paid some of the "Dues to Shareholders" and none have been asked for taxes on that.

Five of you, if unrelated, being equal owners of a company is different from one person owning (directly or indirectly) 100% of a company. Rather than waiting for CPAs to "pipe in" here, I suggest you and your 4 fellow shareholders hire a tax specializing CPA of your own right now. Based on your demonstrated lack of knowledge you risk doing yourselves serious financial harm.

Response:

It’s hard to reply to a message like this because of the lack of information provided. It depends.

OK, let me make it simpler. Owner has company Company makes sale. Owner needs food Food costs money How does owner get money? Bryan

Response:

It’s not the "group"’s fault if you don’t like following good advice. Ever hear the expression "penny wise and pound foolish"?

Yep. That’s me. But I like this one better: "A fool and his money are soon partying." Bryan

Response:

Hi Bryan Did you put money into the corporation to get it started?

No – I didn’t need to – it’s an Internet business, and the startup costs were out of pocket. I didn’t want to waste any time setting up until I knew it would work. It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income.

Yes – that’s OK with me – I’m not trying to avoid taxes – yet Now if I need to draw money from the company, I just set up a dummy account and let the attorney figure out where and how it should be handled each quarter.  And it usually means I owe taxes, FICA and other things on it.  So if I need 5 grand, I’ll pull 6 instead and drop the 1 grand into a savings account to pay the income taxes when they come due each quarter.

OK, thanks. A previous poster (John) suggested a "suspense" account. Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area. Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes. Bryan

…….oh shit….here it comes….. Bryan

Response:

Credit the Bank Account and Debit the Suspense account.  Later on when you talk with your accountant he can tell you how to best classify the expense.  We don’t know the particulars of your company nor do we know of your personal finances so we can’t say if it’s best that you take it as salary, bonus or dividend.  Your accountant will be able to figure that out for you.  If you don’t have a Suspense account create one, it’s a balance sheet account, place it in the liability section toward the end of the Balance Sheet accounts, after the payables but before dividends, Capital/Share accounts and retained earnings.  You have to remember when you look at your financial performance that the amount in the suspense account is not accounted for, so your results will be lower than reported. John

Thanks John – I set up the company on accounting software merely for the purposes of income tax reporting. Personally, I have no concern for looking good to anyone else. But you’ve made this look like a fairly simple maneuver so I’ll go with it. Bryan

Response:

Well then, we’ll just have to wait for the CPA’s to pipe in on this. You are saying that personal monies invested in a private company is stuck there forever and that when you want it back you have to pay income taxes on money that you have already paid taxes on.  What happens if you can only get 50% of your money back?  Or none at all?  The company goes bankrupt?  Are you allowed a Capital Loss?  Do you know what Capital Gains are?  Could the CPA’s comment on this?  I do own a company (5 of us) and I do have a Capital Share plus due to shareholders structure and I can’t wait to find out what the answer is… although I have already paid some of the "Dues to Shareholders" and none have been asked for taxes on that. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not so.  Mr. Deutschmann explained it correctly, the capital provided by the owner can be repaid without any tax implication on either side i.e.; the company or the owner.  The company can recall shares at the issue price and there will be no gain or loss on either side.  Or the original investment may have been a loan in which case the money is simply a repayment.  How the money is treated is the only thing that will make the payment taxable or not and Mr. Deutschmann did say that if the owner was to take a dividend/bonus out of profits or retained earnings that the payment would be subject to taxes. You are so wrong you are dangerous to any owner of a closely held corporation. If the original poster does what you suggest and his 100% owned corporation has earnings and profit, he (the original poster) will have taxable dividend income. Quite simply put what Mr. Deutchmann explained is that you can buy 100 shares in xyz inc. at $10.00 and sell them back for $1,000 and you will not be taxed on the $1,000.  Or you can lend $1,000 to xyz and when xyz repays the loan you will not be taxed on the original loan amount, quite the same as how a bank loan is treated, it is not revenue and the payments are not an expense. If "you" don’t control XYZ, Inc. directly or indirectly, then maybe. The OP CONTROLS his company which makes you wrong.

Response:

Not so.  Mr. Deutschmann explained it correctly, the capital provided by the owner can be repaid without any tax implication on either side i.e.; the company or the owner.  The company can recall shares at the issue price and there will be no gain or loss on either side.  Or the original investment may have been a loan in which case the money is simply a repayment.  How the money is treated is the only thing that will make the payment taxable or not and Mr. Deutschmann did say that if the owner was to take a dividend/bonus out of profits or retained earnings that the payment would be subject to taxes.

You are so wrong you are dangerous to any owner of a closely held corporation. If the original poster does what you suggest and his 100% owned corporation has earnings and profit, he (the original poster) will have taxable dividend income. Quite simply put what Mr. Deutchmann explained is that you can buy 100 shares in xyz inc. at $10.00 and sell them back for $1,000 and you will not be taxed on the $1,000.  Or you can lend $1,000 to xyz and when xyz repays the loan you will not be taxed on the original loan amount, quite the same as how a bank loan is treated, it is not revenue and the payments are not an expense.

If "you" don’t control XYZ, Inc. directly or indirectly, then maybe. The OP CONTROLS his company which makes you wrong.

Response:

Not so.  Mr. Deutschmann explained it correctly, the capital provided by the owner can be repaid without any tax implication on either side i.e.; the company or the owner.  The company can recall shares at the issue price and there will be no gain or loss on either side.  Or the original investment may have been a loan in which case the money is simply a repayment.  How the money is treated is the only thing that will make the payment taxable or not and Mr. Deutschmann did say that if the owner was to take a dividend/bonus out of profits or retained earnings that the payment would be subject to taxes. Quite simply put what Mr. Deutchmann explained is that you can buy 100 shares in xyz inc. at $10.00 and sell them back for $1,000 and you will not be taxed on the $1,000.  Or you can lend $1,000 to xyz and when xyz repays the loan you will not be taxed on the original loan amount, quite the same as how a bank loan is treated, it is not revenue and the payments are not an expense. John The original capital was neither an expense or a revenue on either side and the same is true – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income. Mr. Deutschmann, you are quite mistaken. Distributions to owners, to the extent of earnings and profits in the corporation, are taxable dividends to the owners.

Response:

It’s hard to reply to a message like this because of the lack of information provided. It depends.

Response:

It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income.

Mr. Deutschmann, you are quite mistaken. Distributions to owners, to the extent of earnings and profits in the corporation, are taxable dividends to the owners.

Response:

Hi Bryan Did you put money into the corporation to get it started? It’s been a long time since I have had , inc. behind anything. But if I recall (although the laws may have changed by now), anything I put in became my equity and the profits of the company became my equity position over initial investment. I could make draws against my initial equity without consequence, but to draw against my equity position (profits) was a different matter, meaning it was taxable as income. Now if I need to draw money from the company, I just set up a dummy account and let the attorney figure out where and how it should be handled each quarter.  And it usually means I owe taxes, FICA and other things on it.  So if I need 5 grand, I’ll pull 6 instead and drop the 1 grand into a savings account to pay the income taxes when they come due each quarter. TTUL Gary

Response:

Wow you are so funny. I never heard anyone refer to an accountant as a bean counter. But I guess you are right because we can’t help you we are busy counting them beans. 1, 2 3, 4, etc. It’s such a hackneyed term I wouldn’t think that anyone would take it as a disparaging remark. It would be like going into a medical forum and saying I’m not a "sawbones" – or telling a guitarist I’m not a "picker". In other words, it’s merely a nickname.

Bryan, The term does little justice to the profession and is certainly inappropiate when asking for help. Not that it mattered. Hell you could have started your post with screw all accountants or worse and you probably would have had twice as many responses. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bryan

Response:

Credit the Bank Account and Debit the Suspense account.  Later on when you talk with your accountant he can tell you how to best classify the expense.  We don’t know the particulars of your company nor do we know of your personal finances so we can’t say if it’s best that you take it as salary, bonus or dividend.  Your accountant will be able to figure that out for you.  If you don’t have a Suspense account create one, it’s a balance sheet account, place it in the liability section toward the end of the Balance Sheet accounts, after the payables but before dividends, Capital/Share accounts and retained earnings.  You have to remember when you look at your financial performance that the amount in the suspense account is not accounted for, so your results will be lower than reported. John John. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living Thanks Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area. Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes.

It’s not the "group"’s fault if you don’t like following good advice. Ever hear the expression "penny wise and pound foolish"?

Response:

Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living Thanks Bryan

Response:

Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living

Wow you are so funny. I never heard anyone refer to an accountant as a  bean counter. But I guess you are right because we can’t help you we are busy counting them beans. 1, 2 3, 4, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Bryan

Response:

Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living

What legal form is "the company"?

Response:

Wow you are so funny. I never heard anyone refer to an accountant as a bean counter. But I guess you are right because we can’t help you we are busy counting them beans. 1, 2 3, 4, etc.

It’s such a hackneyed term I wouldn’t think that anyone would take it as a disparaging remark. It would be like going into a medical forum and saying I’m not a "sawbones" – or telling a guitarist I’m not a "picker". In other words, it’s merely a nickname. Bryan

Response:

What legal form is "the company"?

At this point a straight Corporation. I might opt to an "S" corp, but haven’t as yet. regards, Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I own the company and I want to take money out. No employees, no payroll. What account do I take it from, and what do I apply it to? As you can tell, I don’t count beans for a living Thanks Bryan

Response:

there are tax implications when an owner takes money out of a corp –  if it’s payroll there’s FICA, medicare,etc.  If withdrawing from the "cash account" then it could be called a dividend, if it’s from a shareholder’s loan account there are other considerations. —  you might want to visit a professional this year!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What legal form is "the company"? At this point a straight Corporation. I might opt to an "S" corp, but haven’t as yet. regards, Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area.

Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes. Bryan

Response:

Suggest you go talk to a professional bean counter in your area. Thanks, but if that’s all this group has to offer, I’ll figure it out in about ten minutes. Bryan

yes, withdrawing money takes just a few minutes ——    you’re be paying for it a lot longer !!

Response:

Question:

9-unit condo assn in Menlo Park CA needs bookkeeper or accountant to continue existing files and processing for our property. Please respond to Larry Mehl Please excuse the intrusion if this newsgroup does not allow postings of this nature.

Response:

9-unit condo assn in Menlo Park CA needs bookkeeper or accountant to continue existing files and processing for our property. Please respond to Larry Mehl Please excuse the intrusion if this newsgroup does not allow postings of this nature.

On the contrary, Larry, bona fides job postings IMHO enhance the value of this newsgroup for accountants. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Cocaine NORAD Peking munitions genetic fissionable sentiero Libya quiche

Response:

On the contrary, Larry, bona fides job postings IMHO enhance the value of this newsgroup for accountants. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA

I agree.  If you look, you will find "employment" or "jobs" groups for most of the other professions, but accounting seems to be lacking in that area. — Todd Stephens

Response:

On the contrary, Larry, bona fides job postings IMHO enhance the value of this newsgroup for accountants. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA I agree.  If you look, you will find "employment" or "jobs" groups for most of the other professions, but accounting seems to be lacking in that area.

My guess, insufficient demand to support the effort of setting up the news group. Web access folks can always check Monster.com, although I wish they had a way to filter out the "bait" ads from the employment agencies. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

Folks — Thanks for the receptivity.  Now, all I need in a qualified person in the Palo Alto area to contact me and ask for the work! Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 9-unit condo assn in Menlo Park CA needs bookkeeper or accountant to continue existing files and processing for our property. Please respond to Larry Mehl Please excuse the intrusion if this newsgroup does not allow postings of this nature.

Response:

Web access folks can always check Monster.com, although I wish they had a way to filter out the "bait" ads from the employment agencies.

On hotjobs.com you can choose to have your resume visible to either direct employers, staffing agencies, or both (or neither). — Todd Stephens

Response:

Question:

I am a sixth form student and hope to become chartered accountant.  I am currently in the middle of choosing which university/ies to apply to.  I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas on which universities are best for studying accountancy.  I was also considering doing a combined degree with accountancy as the major subject and something like statistics or I.T. as the minor subject.  I was wondering if you think it would be best to do a combined degree or just accountancy on its own. Thanks for any advice Tamara

Response:

Just thought of something, I better mention I’m in the UK as this group is probably visited by people on both sides of the Atlantic. Tamara

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a sixth form student and hope to become chartered accountant.  I am currently in the middle of choosing which university/ies to apply to.  I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas on which universities are best for studying accountancy.  I was also considering doing a combined degree with accountancy as the major subject and something like statistics or I.T. as the minor subject.  I was wondering if you think it would be best to do a combined degree or just accountancy on its own. Thanks for any advice Tamara

Response:

Pacific also. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just thought of something, I better mention I’m in the UK as this group is probably visited by people on both sides of the Atlantic. Tamara I am a sixth form student and hope to become chartered accountant.  I am currently in the middle of choosing which university/ies to apply to.  I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas on which universities are best for studying accountancy.  I was also considering doing a combined degree with accountancy as the major subject and something like statistics or I.T. as the minor subject.  I was wondering if you think it would be best to do a combined degree or just accountancy on its own. Thanks for any advice Tamara

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Accounting and IT is a great mix, Accounting and Law is another, guaranteed to get good employment as long as your people skills are up to it.

Exactly! Therefore I have been somewhat surprised and even a bit dismayed to note the reluctance of at least our students to go for the IT-mix. For some reasons the law-mix is much, much more popular over here with the students than the IT-mix. Is this just us, or are there similar observations elsewhere?    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

Accounting and IT is a great mix, Accounting and Law is another, guaranteed to get good employment as long as your people skills are up to it.  Exactly! Therefore I have been somewhat surprised and even a bit  dismayed to note the reluctance of at least our students to go for  the IT-mix. For some reasons the law-mix is much, much more popular  over here with the students than the IT-mix. Is this just us, or are  there similar observations elsewhere?

We have a complex, multi-tier education system in Switzerland. Generally, IT is still considered technical and accounting more "academic". Very few people have degrees in both accounting and IT, even less than law and accounting. My own observation is that fewer and fewer people are willing to do "grunt work", e. g. sampling, quality control, etc. Skimming the surface is less strenuous and more pleasant. The result: more and more analytic numbers based on less reliable basic data. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

Tamara I do agree with the suggestions of IT and law, but another area of benefit would be German, Chinese, Japanese or any one of many languages.   Mara <<

Response:

enjoying it. There are various other modules such as statistics, law, finance, economics etc. GS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a sixth form student and hope to become chartered accountant.  I am currently in the middle of choosing which university/ies to apply to.  I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas on which universities are best for studying accountancy.  I was also considering doing a combined degree with accountancy as the major subject and something like statistics or I.T. as the minor subject.  I was wondering if you think it would be best to do a combined degree or just accountancy on its own. Thanks for any advice Tamara

Response:

Hi Tamara Another Peter from Oz I did accounting and industrial engineering and specialised in management accounting. A very interesting profession. I would be more concerned about whether you became Chartered, Management, ACCA etc than the university. They will all qualify you for entry to the professional bodies which is what really matters and counts in the end. Good Luck Peter French MAcc MEd Australia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tamara from Australia Accounting and IT is a great mix, Accounting and Law is another, guaranteed to get good employment as long as your people skills are up to it. You can imagine the usefullness to an Audit firm to have someone who can getin there and suss it all out, need experience in systems to become really usefull though. Dont be surprised to graduate and find you are at the start of the learning curve, allow say 5 years to gain broard experience and from there you will earn good money, good luck Peter from Oz I am a sixth form student and hope to become chartered accountant.  I am currently in the middle of choosing which university/ies to apply to.  I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas on which universities are best for studying accountancy.  I was also considering doing a combined degree with accountancy as the major subject and something like statistics or I.T. as the minor subject.  I was wondering if you think it would be best to do a combined degree or just accountancy on its own. Thanks for any advice Tamara

Response:

Currently recovering from sitting ACA finals this week and in the last year of a training contract with PwC… If you end up going to a big five firm (EY / AA / PwC / DT / KPMG) then you will probably get no exemptions from the main exams even if you do a straight accounting degree. They really don’t care what degree you get, but the ‘better’ the university the better… If you want to end up auditing financial services companies then anything that involves maths – stats/economics will be useful. My fellow students who did accounting at uni went past what they learnt at college in the first 6 months… Languages would be good. I studied Literae Humaniores – which as a very non relevent degree has the highest pass rate of any single degree course for ACA exams.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a sixth form student and hope to become chartered accountant.  I am currently in the middle of choosing which university/ies to apply to.  I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas on which universities are best for studying accountancy.  I was also considering doing a combined degree with accountancy as the major subject and something like statistics or I.T. as the minor subject.  I was wondering if you think it would be best to do a combined degree or just accountancy on its own. Thanks for any advice Tamara

Response:

Question:

 Actually, not all of them charge for drinks.  CO’s Presidents Club  doesn’t. When I used to use CO they did charge at EWR, perhaps they have changed.

  The P Club at EWR (the one near gate 110) didn’t charge me for drinks   this past Sunday.  Maybe they used to, but not for the past couple of   years.  Anyhow, it’s true that overseas clubs are probably a much   better value.

Response:

One of the great minuses of the US carriers. Charge for membership and then charge for drinks in the lounges.   Actually, not all of them charge for drinks.  CO’s Presidents Club   doesn’t.

     Nor does Delta’s (well at least as of late July).

Response:

The last thing the airlines need is a reason for a good customer to no longer fly with them.   The airlines may need to cut cost.  But having a frequent flyer program may mean the difference between an airline with a future and bankruptcy! They need the programs now more than ever. The Gyppo Man

Response:

The last thing the airlines need is a reason for a good customer to no longer fly with them. The airlines may need to cut cost.  But having a frequent flyer program may mean the difference between an airline with a future and bankruptcy! They need the programs now more than ever.

Why if none of them have a FF program.

Response:

One of the great minuses of the US carriers. Charge for membership and then charge for drinks in the lounges.

  Actually, not all of them charge for drinks.  CO’s Presidents Club   doesn’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the great minuses of the US carriers. Charge for membership and then charge for drinks in the lounges.   Actually, not all of them charge for drinks.  CO’s Presidents Club   doesn’t. NW WorldClub doesn’t either. — you know, if Jesus comes back to Earth, I bet the last thing he’ll want to see again is another cross.

The biggest cost the clubs have is the rental of the space for the clubs at the various airports.   Wayne

Response:

Agree.  Most airline lounges are supported by business travelers flying F or C class, or by travelers buying a membership.  Companies are belt-tightening and travel policies of companies here in the US require cheapest available fares and prohibit memberships in lounges.  That leaves only independently wealthy individuals, who are probably too small a number to justify lounges.

One MAJOR correction here.  Lounge membership and access, especially (or limited to) for domestic flights, in the U.S. cost money.  They’re very rarely given as a perk of elite membership. Free access in general is only given for international flights.  They can be seen as a profit centre.

Response:

One of the great minuses of the US carriers. Charge for membership and then charge for drinks in the lounges.   Actually, not all of them charge for drinks.  CO’s Presidents Club   doesn’t.

NW’s WorldClubs didn’t either. —

Question:

x – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -PRE-LAUNCHING WORLDWIDE JULY – ACT NOW PHOENIX, ARIZONA U.S.A. BASED COMPANY HAS CREATED THE MOST POWERFUL AND PROFITABLE ONE CARD SOLUTION IN THE WORLD! THIS IS AN ENTREPRENEURS DREAM THAT IS CREATING THE MOST PHENOMENAL WORLDWIDE EXPLOSION NEVER SEEN BEFORE, WITH ANY PRODUCT, IN DIRECT SALES INDUSTRY You’re About To Discover The Most Exciting and Built-To-Last Opportunity That Will Enable You To Earn More Money QUICKLY, GLOBALLY and Keep It Coming For The Rest Of Your Life!! or visit http://www.globaldebitcard.net/unbeatable THIS UNIVERSAL CARD WAS CREATED BY: * THE COMPANY PRESIDENT, A FORMER OFFICER OF ONE OF THE  LARGEST INTERNATIONAL BANK IN THE WORLD * A FORMER SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF VISA INTERNATIONAL * A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR WORLDWIDE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION UNMATCHED CREDIBILITY AND RECOGNITION The card functions on a Certified Platform that cost over $15 million dollars, took 6 years to create and can perform hundreds features. Ernst and Young, a leading International accounting firm, valued the platform at $25 million dollars.   International Multi-Function Debit Card Available In All Countries Carries The Logos Of: * A Multi-Billion Worldwide Financial Institution That  Holds And Insures  The Deposits   * The Largest Merchant Aggregating Company In The World * The Three Largest ATMs Networks In The World * The Largest POS Networks In The World UNMATCHED FEATURES * Anyone In the World Can Obtain The Card With NO Credit Check,  NO Questions and NO Interest * You Can Deposit And Use An UNLIMITED Amount Of Money * You Can Use It To Charge At Over 17 MILLION Point Of Sale Locations  Worldwide * Your Money Is Instantly Available Though The Three Largest ATMs Networks  In The World * Low Cost Member-To-Member Cash Online Transfer Feature Let You Tap And  Undercut The Three Trillion-Dollar Cash Transfer Industry! * Unique Feature Let You Transfer Money From Your Card To Your ACH  (Automated Clearing House) Checking Account * All Transfers Have Automatic Conversion In the Local Country Currency * You Can Carry Any Amount Anywhere In The World * It Can Be Used By Any Size Company As A Real-Time Global Direct Payroll  Deposit * And So Much More! or visit http://www.globaldebitcard.net/unbeatable UNMATCHED DEMAND * 90% Of Adults In The World Cannot Obtain A Credit Card Or A Checking Account * 40% Of People In The US Still Don’t Have A Credit Card * 90% Of Adults In The World Cannot Obtain A Credit Card Or A Checking Account * 15% Don’t Have A Checking Account * 75% Of People in the US Who Have A Credit Card Are Maxed Out * No Doubt, The Debit Card Market Is Substantially Larger Than The Credit Card  Market * Our Multi-Function Card Is HANDS DOWN, The Best Choice Of Any Debit Card,  Secure Card, Check Card Or Cash Card With A LOW PRICE Anyone In The World Can  Afford! UNMATCHED PROFITS! You Can Build A Worldwide Associates’ Organization From Any Country And Earn WEEKLY COMMISSIONS From Commissionable Business Centers Through An Incredible Front-End 2 X Infinity  - Plus Matching Bonuses Compensation Plan Historically Proven To Create  Business Momentum and Large Incomes FAST! You Can Build A LIFE-LONG MONTHLY RESIDUAL INCOME  In Usage Overrides * From Card Purchases * Money Transfers * All The Services The Card Offers Used By Customers And Associates In Your Worldwide Organization, Through The Most Lucrative Back-End Unilevel Compensation Plan A COMPANY BUILT-TO-LAST MAKING HISTORY AROUND THE WORLD The company is a stable three year old corporation that was formed   to develop and distribute worldwide  various breakthrough technologies that represent giant advancements in global financial services, e-commerce, telecommunications, Internet technologies and other advanced solutions. The company has developed a powerful system of truly global connectivity and is extremely well poised to attract and service a large International community of customers and Associates.   ACt fast – For more information send an email to or visit http://www.globaldebitcard.net/unbeatable Warmest regards Michelle Aldous http://www.libertyprofit.com/?refer_id=333000574 – Tired of recruiting, tired of selling, no experience required, no inventory – ALL you need to do is ENROL and Liberty take care of the rest http://mlmeducationalandresources.cjb.net – Ultimate educational and promotional resource center for MLM professionals. The one website that all Network Marketers MUST gain access to. http://iamgoingplatinum.cjb.net – Full FREE ISP that pays YOU to use the internet.

Response:

PRE-LAUNCHING WORLDWIDE JULY – ACT NOW PHOENIX, ARIZONA U.S.A. BASED COMPANY HAS CREATED THE MOST POWERFUL AND PROFITABLE ONE CARD SOLUTION IN THE WORLD! THIS IS AN ENTREPRENEURS DREAM THAT IS CREATING THE MOST PHENOMENAL WORLDWIDE EXPLOSION NEVER SEEN BEFORE, WITH ANY PRODUCT, IN DIRECT SALES INDUSTRY You’re About To Discover The Most Exciting and Built-To-Last Opportunity That Will Enable You To Earn More Money QUICKLY, GLOBALLY and Keep It Coming For The Rest Of Your Life!! or visit http://www.globaldebitcard.net/unbeatable
THIS UNIVERSAL CARD WAS CREATED BY: * THE COMPANY PRESIDENT, A FORMER OFFICER OF ONE OF THE   LARGEST INTERNATIONAL BANK IN THE WORLD * A FORMER SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF VISA INTERNATIONAL * A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR WORLDWIDE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION
UNMATCHED CREDIBILITY AND RECOGNITION The card functions on a Certified Platform that cost over $15 million dollars, took 6 years to create and can perform hundreds features. Ernst and Young, a leading International accounting firm, valued the platform at $25 million dollars.  
International Multi-Function Debit Card Available In All Countries
Carries The Logos Of: * A Multi-Billion Worldwide Financial Institution That  Holds And Insures   The Deposits  
* The Largest Merchant Aggregating Company In The World * The Three Largest ATMs Networks In The World * The Largest POS Networks In The World
UNMATCHED FEATURES * Anyone In the World Can Obtain The Card With NO Credit Check,   NO Questions and NO Interest * You Can Deposit And Use An UNLIMITED Amount Of Money * You Can Use It To Charge At Over 17 MILLION Point Of Sale Locations   Worldwide * Your Money Is Instantly Available Though The Three Largest ATMs Networks   In The World * Low Cost Member-To-Member Cash Online Transfer Feature Let You Tap And
  Undercut The Three Trillion-Dollar Cash Transfer Industry! * Unique Feature Let You Transfer Money From Your Card To Your ACH   (Automated Clearing House) Checking Account * All Transfers Have Automatic Conversion In the Local Country Currency * You Can Carry Any Amount Anywhere In The World * It Can Be Used By Any Size Company As A Real-Time Global Direct Payroll   Deposit * And So Much More! or visit http://www.globaldebitcard.net/unbeatable
UNMATCHED DEMAND * 90% Of Adults In The World Cannot Obtain A Credit Card Or A Checking Account * 40% Of People In The US Still Don’t Have A Credit Card * 90% Of Adults In The World Cannot Obtain A Credit Card Or A Checking Account * 15% Don’t Have A Checking Account * 75% Of People in the US Who Have A Credit Card Are Maxed Out * No Doubt, The Debit Card Market Is Substantially Larger Than The Credit Card   Market * Our Multi-Function Card Is HANDS DOWN, The Best Choice Of Any Debit Card,
  Secure Card, Check Card Or Cash Card With A LOW PRICE Anyone In The World Can   Afford! UNMATCHED PROFITS! You Can Build A Worldwide Associates’ Organization From Any Country And Earn
WEEKLY COMMISSIONS From Commissionable Business Centers Through An
Incredible Front-End 2 X Infinity  - Plus Matching Bonuses Compensation Plan Historically Proven To Create  Business Momentum and Large Incomes FAST! You Can Build A LIFE-LONG MONTHLY RESIDUAL INCOME  In Usage Overrides * From Card Purchases
* Money Transfers * All The Services The Card Offers
Used By Customers And Associates In Your Worldwide Organization,
Through The Most Lucrative Back-End Unilevel Compensation Plan A COMPANY BUILT-TO-LAST MAKING HISTORY AROUND THE WORLD The company is a stable three year old corporation that was formed   to develop and distribute worldwide  various breakthrough technologies
that represent giant advancements in global financial services, e-commerce,
telecommunications, Internet technologies and other advanced solutions.
The company has developed a powerful system of truly global connectivity and
is extremely well poised to attract and service a large International community
of customers and Associates.  
ACt fast – For more information send an email to or visit http://www.globaldebitcard.net/unbeatable
Warmest regards
Michelle Aldous
http://www.libertyprofit.com/?refer_id=333000574 – Tired of recruiting, tired of selling, no experience required, no inventory – ALL you need to do is ENROL and Liberty take care of the rest
http://mlmeducationalandresources.cjb.net – Ultimate educational and promotional resource center for MLM professionals. The one website that all Network Marketers MUST gain access to.
http://iamgoingplatinum.cjb.net – Full FREE ISP that pays YOU to use the internet.

Response:

Question:

I think you are going to need to be a bit more specific regarding the question on SAP R/3 system.  It is an extremely powerful but complex system.  There are tons of books available, but many of them are function specific.  For example, do you want to configure FI/CO, use FI/CO or write  ABAP programs to create reports from this module?  

Response:

Hi. I’m coming back to the accounting field in a county environment after 25 years working in a different field. Can anyone recommend some good books/cbt’s for government accounting or SAP R/3? TIA.

Response:

Much clarification needed. By government what do you mean, for example; Sacramento County, City of Sacramento, California, the Federal Government or France.  They work quite a bit differently. SAP R/3.  Amazon has a boatload of titles.  Depends on how your going to work with it. Hi. I’m coming back to the accounting field in a county environment after 25 years working in a different field. Can anyone recommend some good books/cbt’s for government accounting or SAP R/3? TIA.

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *   Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia       * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Question:

You need to first spend more time looking at the features and functionality of each product and then look at the scalability of Business Works and compare that to your projected growth.  Migrations are always a pain (no matter the vendor or the product) and if you are going to outgrow Business Works in less than 2 or 3 years you should bite the bullet now and implement Mas 90, or better yet Great Plains Dynamics.  :) — Alan C. Whitehouse The Resource Group Great Plains Reseller 1400 Talbot Rd. S., Suite 301 Renton, WA 98055 (425) 277-4760 http://www.resgroup.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My company is considering making a switch from DacEasy Accounting and Job Costing to either BusinessWorks or making the leap to Mas90.  we would be fine on BusinessWorks, but wonder if we would eventually have to convert later to Mas90 as the company grew.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Patti

Response:

Sage promotes this linear path from DACEasy to BW to Mas90 to Acuity. The pitch must be resonating – I bump into it once a week. I’ve worked with Mas90 since roughly 1985 and still maintain and support several sites. But, in all candor, I can’t think of a situation where it is the best choice for a new installation.   The package which offers the best combination of price and flexibility, contemplating future expansion, is UA Corporate Accounting.   If you would like a demo disk or additional info, I can help. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick www.cpaccess.com 800-997-7944 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My company is considering making a switch from DacEasy Accounting and Job Costing to either BusinessWorks or making the leap to Mas90.  we would be fine on BusinessWorks, but wonder if we would eventually have to convert later to Mas90 as the company grew.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Patti

Response:

I worked with both software and have found both of them ideal for their specific market (Vastly superior to DAC Easy!!!), but as to which one fits your needs I would say you need a third party needs analysis……someone who will look at your problems objectively and recommend the best solution. If you are in a broad growth pattern, skip BusinessWorks and go direct to MAS 90 because any conversion and the resulting learning curve can be daunting…doing it twice is too much! Just my .02 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My company is considering making a switch from DacEasy Accounting and Job Costing to either BusinessWorks or making the leap to Mas90.  we would be fine on BusinessWorks, but wonder if we would eventually have to convert later to Mas90 as the company grew.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Patti

Response:

My company is considering making a switch from DacEasy Accounting and Job Costing to either BusinessWorks or making the leap to Mas90.  we would be fine on BusinessWorks, but wonder if we would eventually have to convert later to Mas90 as the company grew.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Patti

Response:

Sounds like you need a ‘Needs Analysis’ * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Dear PLT, I agree with FERGY that you should do a needs analysis before making any software switch. You might also consider calling the SAGE Software, Inc. toll free number, 1.800.854.3415, and talking to one of their sales consultants. (The products you mentioned are SAGE products.) They can help point you in the right direction once they better understand your needs. At the very minimum, they can put you into contact with a reseller near you for a free consultation. Regards, Barry Rice Sr. Product Specialist – Acuity Applications SAGE Software, Inc. Phone:  (281) 807-4019 Fax:    (281) 807-4020 Cell:   (281) 773-9424 http://www.sota.com * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Question:

Hi Group: I’m new at this, so bear with me (a friend just gave me her "old" computer because she got a "new" one for Christmas). I know this might be a bit "off topic", but I thought my "cyber-friends" might be the best to ask, seeing as is concerns a computer?? Does anyone know anything about this millennium virus I keep hearing about. If so, can you pass on what you know. Thanks, Matthew Wilson, RN, BSN, Tulane University Medical Center – Family Dynamics Day Clinic

Response:

Matthew: There’s a lot of "scarey talk" for this problem which can be easily fixed, esp with home/personal computers. I found a site which has an easy to understand two minute explanation of the Y2K bug (you don’t have to be Bill Gates to understand – I understood & lots of times I have trouble finding my files to open) They sell a "debugger" program/application (a nurse wrote the program!) – I got it and it worked fine – but even if you’re not looking for something, their "2-Minute Explanation Page" is really worth a look. I’m pretty sure their web address is this: http://members.xoom.com/y2k_rn/ If not, I heard of them through the Royal Windsor Society’s Nursing Research page (which I’m a member of) – They’re at: http://www.windsor.igs.net/~nhodgins so you could always try to get a link from there. Good Luck and Don’t Worry – It’s Not The End of the World as We Know It! Michael Wells, RCHN, San Fran General – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group: I’m new at this, so bear with me (a friend just gave me her "old" computer because she got a "new" one for Christmas). I know this might be a bit "off topic", but I thought my "cyber-friends" might be the best to ask, seeing as is concerns a computer?? Does anyone know anything about this millennium virus I keep hearing about. If so, can you pass on what you know. Thanks, Matthew Wilson, RN, BSN, Tulane University Medical Center – Family Dynamics Day Clinic

Response:

it’s this simple long ago computers were wimpy and if we could use 99 to mean 1999 that would save space for other information. now they forgot that when 2000 came the comps would see only 00 and think it was 1900 therefore many may shut down thinking their maintenance sched is way off or something like that. that simple, they just didn’t think the stuff they made would still be around now i guess so they didn’t worry about it. Garett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group: I’m new at this, so bear with me (a friend just gave me her "old" computer because she got a "new" one for Christmas). I know this might be a bit "off topic", but I thought my "cyber-friends" might be the best to ask, seeing as is concerns a computer?? Does anyone know anything about this millennium virus I keep hearing about. If so, can you pass on what you know. Thanks, Matthew Wilson, RN, BSN, Tulane University Medical Center – Family Dynamics Day Clinic

Response:

Hi Group: I’m new at this, so bear with me (a friend just gave me her "old" computer because she got a "new" one for Christmas). I know this might be a bit "off topic", but I thought my "cyber-friends" might be the best to ask, seeing as is concerns a computer?? Does anyone know anything about this millennium virus I keep hearing about. If so, can you pass on what you know. Thanks, Matthew Wilson, RN, BSN, Tulane University Medical Center – Family Dynamics Day Clinic

Last week’s Time magazine devoted its cover story.  It’s probably written in a way that you would understand easily. I’m a pro with computers.  I’m concerned but I don’t lose sleep over it and I ain’t building a bunker in my backyard.

Response:

(Steph) writes: Hi Group: I’m new at this, so bear with me (a friend just gave me her "old" computer because she got a "new" one for Christmas). I know this might be a bit "off topic", but I thought my

"cyber-friends" might be the best to ask, seeing as is concerns a computer?? Does anyone know anything about this millennium virus I keep hearing about. If so, can you pass on what you know. Thanks, Matthew Wilson, RN, BSN, Tulane University Medical Center – Family Dynamics Day Clinic Last week’s Time magazine devoted its cover story.  It’s probably written in a way that you would understand easily. I’m a pro with computers.  I’m concerned but I don’t lose sleep over it and I ain’t building a bunker in my backyard.

So far nobody seems to be talking about the fact that many other cultures, Chinese and Jews, for example, use completely different calendars.  Maybe the main thing that will happen on 1/1/2000 is more take-out? Joel

Response:

Ain’t concerned whether planes discontine flying; the bank lost my account balance; the mortgage lender thinks I owe 100 years interest, but what will I do if I can’t read this newsgroup? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group: I’m new at this, so bear with me (a friend just gave me her "old" computer because she got a "new" one for Christmas). I know this might be a bit "off topic", but I thought my "cyber-friends" might be the best to ask, seeing as is concerns a computer?? Does anyone know anything about this millennium virus I keep hearing about. If so, can you pass on what you know. Thanks, Matthew Wilson, RN, BSN, Tulane University Medical Center – Family Dynamics Day Clinic Last week’s Time magazine devoted its cover story.  It’s probably written in a way that you would understand easily. I’m a pro with computers.  I’m concerned but I don’t lose sleep over it and I ain’t building a bunker in my backyard.

Response:

Just read a book called Y2K by Jason Kelly.  I don’t know how much is truth and how much is fiction, but it scared the bejeebers out of me. He talks about imbedded chips having date functions, and that it is the imbedded chips that will be the downfall of everything. When the millenium hits, they’ll just plain quit working.   He claims things like new cars with computer controls and jetliners with computerized fuel systems, etc with cease to function.  He said power plants would grind to a halt, telephone routing systems, banking industry…  I got a call from my credit card company, suggesting I "invest" in a copy of my credit report before Y2K.  All while I was reading that darned book.  It is a fiction book, but SCARY….  Everything I read in Time and Newsweek corroborates what he says.  AND, the government isn’t anywhere as close to being ready as private businesses.  One editorial I read said getting extra food and water wouldn’t hurt, and if it was never needed, you could just use it up.  Wood, too…  Who the heck knows…. Gretchen — "I have very poor and unhappy brains for drinking."     Wm. Shakespeare     Othello–Act ii, Sc. 3

Response:

Millenium virus

It’s not a hoax, but it won’t be that bad. Aeroplanes wont fall out of the sky like poisoned roaches.  The engines and control systems don’t even care about what year it is.  I read somewhere that GPS navigation systems may have problems, but aeroplanes have several other navigation systems, including old-style radio beacons that were around long befor computers. The airline and hotel reservation systems may experience problems, but on the other hand the airlines should have everything fixed by then. The shops aren’t going to suddenly run out of food (unless everyone panic-buys because of the media hype).  Even if the shop’s computer system incorrectly says that a batch of food has expired, the shop-keeper is going to use a bit of common sense, and not reject the stuff. There aren’t going to be power blackouts.  Generating systems don’t care what year it is, and the power companies have tested their systems, anyway. Nuclear missiles aren’t suddenly going to launch themselves (even Russian ones), for the same reason. If you set your video on Dec 31 to record a program on Jan 01, it might not work.  After that your video will probably carry on working as before. Your watch may not think that February 29 2000 exists – big deal. If you (or your accountant) does your accounts on a computer it may experience some glitches (esp. with older software), but if the worst comes to the worst that can be sorted out after the event. Colin ps.  It’s not realy a ‘virus’.  Viruses are programs that have been specifically designed to automatically spread from computer to computer causing malicious damage.  A ‘bug’ is closer…

Response:

If so, can you pass on what you know.

Y2K or "Year 2000 Bug" refers to the way dates are being stored on many of the computers since programming pretty much began. All the computer specialists at the time assumed that technological advances would make all the programs put into place then (and currently still running) so completely obsolete that no one would be using them anymore. Therefore they decided to store computer dates as the last two digits – IE they stored "99" instead of "1999". When performing date calculations only the last two numbers of the date are compared thus telling you if the item in question is "in date". (IE you credit card has an expiration date of 10/99 and you make a purchase today 1/99, it subtracts 10/99 from 1/99 and gets an answer of "in date".) When 1/1/2000 comes around, the "short date" for 2000 is 00. Only computers think 00 is 1900. Therefore ALL transactions will be 100 years out of date and be rejected by the computers. This is where the problem comes in. *Someone* has to go through every single line of all the computer programs that have this "short date" code and replace the "short date" code with the "long date" code. So the computers would now be subtracting 1999 form 2000, instead of 99 from 00. This will solve the problem. Only there are so many billions upon billions of lines of code that there are not enough programmers and physical hours in the rest of this year that it is physically impossible to fix the problem. IMO this is one of the reason for so many buyouts recently. Big banks (or other businesses) are buying out and using the computer systems of smaller banks/businesses that were able to fix and have already completed fixing thier computer systems. Some banks are fixed already. NationsBank bought out that bank in CA and are now Y2K compliant. First Citizens Bank is Y2K compliant. BB&T is not. Medicare and Social Secuirty is fixed. The IRS isn’t (maybe that means they will lose all our tax bills.) Also many credit care companies are not fixed, nor many medical systems (again they could lose our bills). Also the problem with medical equipment is that those that run on dates and times such as some of the IV pumps, heart monitors, and drug despensing equipment won’t give out medicenes because the computer thinks it is 1900, again "out of date" transactions and refused. How does this effect you personally? Well, like I mentioned before the IRS, credit card companies, and medical billing might lose all your bills and never be able to collect them. I don’t think you would mind that part too much. But it also means that any computer drived system – like Wal-Mart – will shut down if the problem isn’t fixed by the end of the year. You bank will lose your account, and thus all your money. FedEx will stop working, so will UPS last I heard, although RPS will probably still be running. Most personal computer will be ok, but may have some odd problems if you have any date based systems like Quickbooks, Quicken, or other "accounting and financial" type packages. Even the way the information is stored on the computer may cause problems, but it won’t be a serious as most people use thier computer for "play" type functions, and most small businesses can run without a computer for a few weeks until a new one can be purchased. Larger businesses may have problems, not only internally, but in acquireing the products they sale as the delivery system may break down. For an at home PC you can change the system date to 1/1/2000 and see what happnes. If it boots up properly then you need to go into each software package and make sure they work, especially anything with a date driven database. Also the utility that was mentioned in one of the other answers, as well as several others that are out there can be purchased, many for under $50. One quick and easy solution is just to change you system date back several years and just ignore when the files were stored, etc. It will run the same as it is now, only the computer will assume all the files are old. It will give you some confusing messages when installing software, but shouldn’t cause any other problems. Just don’t set the computer date back to far. Find out what the approximate release date of your computer is (on the purchase order if you have it) and set it to that. Mine was 9/27/94 therefore I would set mine to today’s date in the most recent year I can after that date or 1/18/95. Actually it could be anytime in 1994 but just to make sure you don’t confuse it by giving it a date before it was "born" I would suggest setting it to no earlier than that date or an approximation of that date. I hope this "lecture" is of some help. It’s pretty much the same one I’ve been giving all my home office and small business clients. Along with upgrading their system. Oh, and if you do get a Y2K compliant computer (hardware) make sure all your software is Y2K too. Microsoft just released the beta of it’s Y2K version of MS Office (They named it MS Office 2000 to cut down on confusion) a few weeks ago. And my "new for ‘99" Quickbooks says it is Y2K compliant. My computer isn’t but my software is/will be. I’m trying to save up for a new computer by the end of the year and give this one to my daughter. Makara

Response:

The Y2K problem is not a hoax.  However, there is a lot of differing opinions about what is going to happen.  Nobody really knows for sure. Some people have their head in the sand and are ignoring it and others are stockpiling ammo in their bunkers. There is a lot of misinformation out there and the subject is really too deep to go into here.  If you want to find out more check out these web sites.  Bookmark them and go back often because they are constantly updating. http://www.zdnet.com/zdy2k/ http://cassandraproject.org/home.html http://www.y2ktoday.com/modules/home/default.asp There are also several newsgroups dealing with the problem but they tend to attract allot of the radical, end of the world, type of people and I don’t recommend them. If you are worried about your own computer there are several good programs that you can download that will test your computer hardware for you.  Besides checking Jan.1,2000 they also check to see if it can handle leap years in the next century. — Mike Wilson Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult ICQ# 7510400

Response:

He claims things like new cars with computer controls and jetliners with computerized fuel systems, etc with cease to function.

Hmm.  Even imbedded chips aren’t going to fail unless they care what year it is. If your car (or plane) has one of those computers in that says when it’s next due for a service, based on the time since the last service, the milage, and how hard you drive … then maybe …, though you’d just get a warning saying "You haven’t had your car serviced for a hundred years".  It wouldn’t just turn itself off on January 1st.  On the other hand, though, those sort of systems are only a couple of years old, and hopefully the manufacturers would have been aware of The Year 2000.                             Basically it can only go wrong in ‘2000′, if the year is stored in two digits, *and* if it does calculations based on that 2-digit year, *and* if the program is old, or if the programmer was negligent.  But most systems (esp. imbedded systems) don’t care about the year, they just ensure that enough fuel gets to the injectors (or whatever). BTW, lots of Microsoft software, and software written with Microsoft utilities will go wrong on January 18 2038 at 19:14:07.  I guess they’ve got plenty of time left to fix it… Colin

Response:

For a great short video online about the Y2K bug, go to http://www.apple.com/hotnews/features/hal.html You’ll need Apple’s Quicktime to run the movie, but its free and you can download it from the same page (works on Macs or Win95, Win98, Win NT). Janie If so, can you pass on what you know. Y2K or "Year 2000 Bug" refers to the way dates are being stored on many of the computers since programming pretty much began.

– Conscious of our own failures, there is little that we dare condemn in others.        –Patience Strong To reply via email replace "JLT_ALB" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224 [Smoke-free since 1/1/99]

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<an awesome and informative description of the Y2K bug snipped – way to go Makara! I hope this "lecture" is of some help. It’s pretty much the same one I’ve been giving all my home office and small business clients. Along with upgrading their system. Oh, and if you do get a Y2K compliant computer (hardware) make sure all your software is Y2K too. Microsoft just released the beta of it’s Y2K version of MS Office (They named it MS Office 2000 to cut down on confusion) a few weeks ago. And my "new for ‘99" Quickbooks says it is Y2K compliant. My computer isn’t but my software is/will be. I’m trying to save up for a new computer by the end of the year and give this one to my daughter. Makara

Of course, you could have bought a Mac and you wouldn’t have to worry about Y2K on your home system at all http://www.apple.com/hotnews/features/hal.html Janie — Conscious of our own failures, there is little that we dare condemn in others.        –Patience Strong To reply via email replace "JLT_ALB" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224 [Smoke-free since 1/1/99]

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Here’s another Mac afficianado… Donna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -Of course, you could have bought a Mac and you wouldn’t have to worry about -Y2K on your home system at all – -http://www.apple.com/hotnews/features/hal.html – -Janie There’s got to be one in every crowd Victoria Lee

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-Of course, you could have bought a Mac and you wouldn’t have to worry about -Y2K on your home system at all – -http://www.apple.com/hotnews/features/hal.html – -Janie There’s got to be one in every crowd Victoria Lee

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-Here’s another Mac afficianado… – -:) – -Donna If I knew then what I know now I would have started with a Mac, but unfortunately, I’m pretty well stuck.  I have too much invested in IBM programs to switch now.   Victoria Lee

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Trust the computer industry to shorten "Year 2000" to Y2K. It was this kind of thinking that caused the problem in the first place.

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– -Trust the computer industry to shorten "Year 2000" to Y2K. -It was this kind of thinking that caused the problem in the first -place. – -:-) Er, you actually think thinking was involved?  Seems to me like they didn’t think, but that’s just what I think Victoria Lee

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If I knew then what I know now I would have started with a Mac, but unfortunately, I’m pretty well stuck.  I have too much invested in IBM programs to switch now.   Victoria Lee

I know exactly what you mean about investments Victoria.  Apple’s customer service when things go wrong (like UPS losing your computer) sucks big time.  I had such an *awful* Apple buying experience last fall when I bought my new G3, I might have gone with a Gateway (for the same price) if I didn’t have all this Mac software – for the *sole reason* that Apple’s customer service sucks.  I’m still happier with the simplistic approach to system layout that comes with my Macintosh (I can even run Win95 on it if there is some special kind of software that’s not yet available in MacOS format), but it would have been nice to have the financial ability to thumb my nose at a company that doesn’t care much about its customers’ happiness. Janie <==who hopes some Apple big-whig reads this — Praise is more spontaneous when things go right; but it is more precious when things go wrong. To reply via email replace "JLT_ALB" with "janiet" ICQ#22924224 [Smoke-free since 1/1/99]

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If you live along the Gulf Coast, just keep your hurricane season supplies around till February. That’s what I tell my clients. My s2bx’s boyfriend is a survivalist gun-freak planning on moving her and my kids to a remote ranch way inland to "survive" the cataclysm. I don’t think I’m out of line to be a little concerned here. Sorry, had a bad day with the *^%$! s2bx. Glad I’m not a drinking man. Kids are here for their "weekend" with me, off to bed. We cleaned house. Had a nice dinner. Did homework. Quiet and peaceful. But the aura of their mom hangs over us like Damocles sword. I for one will be happy the day it goes away. Didn’t mean to vent. She knows my buttons and loves to poke at them. My kids forgave me for getting angry at her. They love me. They tell me so. She didn’t. Have a nice week everyone. Or at least try not to get too suicidal about it.

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Question:

        Not in Paris, like you said he was.         But H*r*l, where were you on that weekend? Brett                                                       Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING! Better, Cheaper, Faster                                        (Pick any two Disclaimer:                                                                NOT!

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   Not in Paris, like you said he was.    But H*r*l, where were you on that weekend?

He was probably in New York, dreaming up that bullshit story about the "August Surprise" since he knew damned well his "October" flavour wouldn’t hold up to the clear light of legal examination…. you have to hand it to those wacky, wishy-washy wierdos from the left, eh? (Have you heard the one about Bush being too ill to run for office? I think the LaWooshies dreamed that one up, but poor old George just refuses to fall over and play sick for them…) Sorry your war didn’t happen today, Harel – better luck next time… — An anonymous Canadian official was asked, in early 1945, how many Jews would be allowed into Canada after the war. "None," he said, "is too many." (From the preface of NONE IS TOO MANY, Toronto, 1982. ISBN 0-919630-31-6)

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   PICK A BUSH, ANY BUSH: Why did candidate Bush disappear from    public view for some 20 hours just two weeks prior to what was a    very close presidential election? And where did he go?  The Bush    administration appears to be working overtime to provide an alibi.    But these over-eager efforts have not been coor- dinated. [..] The  - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –    –  [Send the 1-line message GET WHEREWAS GEORGE ACTIV-L to  ]    –  [Send GET ACTIV-L ARCHIVE ACTIV-L to above address for a ]         [listing with brief descriptions of other files available]  - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –                     T H E   F I R S T   S T O N E                            By Joel Bleifuss                    In These Times, May 15-21, 1991                    [See bottom for free issue info] Attacks, heart and otherwise On May 3, President Bush finally addressed allegations that he helped the 1980 Reagan-Bush presidential campaign strike a secret deal with Iran to have the 52 American hostages held in Teheran until after the election. Emphasizing the point with well rehearsed gesticulations, he labeled the charges "sickening." He meant it. The next day Bush was laid up in Bethesda suffer- ing the trials and fibrillations of a disintegrating presidency. The ever-chipper vice president was one irregular heartbeat away from assuming office. And the the public was left wondering whether their president had approached the 1980 election with the same wisdom that in 1988 led him to choose Dan Quayle as a running mate. So where was George? "Was I ever in Paris in 1980? Definitively, definitely no. That’s all. Please print it. And let’s try to stop this rumormongering that’s going on. Stop repeating rumors over and over again," he said in his May 3 executive order. But, Mr. President, the press has tried to stop the rumors, with no one trying harder than the Washington Post. The Post finally assigned a staff reporter to cover the issue, though it has yet to give the allegations a serious examination. Thomas Lippman, in his front-page May 4 article, "Tale of Hostage Intrigue Refuses to Die," didn’t even try. Lippman’s piece in Washington’s newspaper of record set a dis- mal standard. His story, like others that appeared across the na- tion that Saturday, highlighted Bush’s denials without explaining exactly what the president was denying. Lippman did say that "the tale keeps surfacing ..reinforced by a chain of circumstantial evidence." But rather than describe that evidence, he wrote simply that in "some versions" of the story, "George Bush, then Reagan’s running mate, participated in a sec- ret meeting in Paris that sealed the reported deal." He then prints   the denial by an "angry President Bush." But having raised the question of Bush’s whereabouts, Lippman left it at that. He did say that during the May 1990 perjury trial of CIA operative Richard Brenneke, the Justice Department failed to prove that Brenneke lied about attending one of three October 1980 meetings in Paris where the alleged deal was finalized. Sev- eral accounts place Bush, soon-to-be CIA chief William Casey and then-Carter White House national-security aide Donald Gregg at these meetings. While Lippman admitted that the Justice Department’s case against Brenneke was unable to establish a believable alibi for Casey and Gregg, he did not address where Bush was on the weekend of Oct. 18 and 19,1980, when the Paris meetings are said to have taken place. This much is known: at 9 p.m. that Saturday, Bush concluded a speech at Widener University in Delaware County, Pa. He was next seen in public at 7 p.m. Sunday in Washington giving a speech to the Zionist Organization of America. PICK A BUSH, ANY BUSH: Why did candidate Bush disappear from public view for some 20 hours just two weeks prior to what was a very close presidential election? And where did he go? The Bush administration appears to be working overtime to provide an alibi. But these over-eager efforts have not been coor- dinated. The alibis follow, in order of appearance: *  In the fall of 1988, Republican presidential campaign workers explained that Bush spent those unaccounted hours at the Chevy Chase Country Club in suburban Maryland, on private business. This story was supported by a heavily redacted Secret Service re- port that said Bush was at the club with unknown parties. In May 1990, at the Brenneke trial, the Justice Department offered two Secret Service agents as witnesses to explain Bush’s whereabouts. In unconnncing, lackluster testimony, the two had trouble mak- ing their case. *  On April 22, Vice President Quayle was asked on Detroit’s ABC-TV affiliate WXYZ where Bush was on that weekend in Oc- tober. Quayle said he didn’t know but promised to get back to the station with an answer. The next day the vice president’s of- fice faxed its version of Bush’s itinerary to the station. According to Alan Upchurch, executive producer of WXYZ news, the fax in- dicated that on the Sunday in question Bush spent all day at home without a Secret Service escort. On May 9,I called the vice president’s office and asked for a copy of that itinerary. I was told to contact the president’s press office. *  Last week, on May 8, the _Wall Street Journal’s_ Gordon Crovitz provided Bush with another itinerary for his lost weekend: "Sunday, Washington, D.C., Lunch with Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart and Mrs. Stewart." This alibi originates with the Secret Service, which several months ago provided that informa- tion to the Government Accounting Office. Apparently, brunching with a Supreme Court Justice looks more presidential than an overnight visit to a Washington country club with parties un- known. Further, Bush’s brunch cannot be confirmed — the judge is dead and his wife suffers from chronic memory loss. *  Also on May 8, Jerry Seper of the Washington Times reported that Bush was at home with a Secret Service escort. He wrote, ‘he Secret Service says he awoke about 6:30 a.m. [Sunday], had lunch at his Washington home and spent the day there preparing the speech [to the Zionist Organization of America in Washington]." *  On May 9, I called the White House media-relations office and asked for a copy ol Bush’s itinerary for October 18 and 19,1980. A woman named Jeanie said she would fax it to me. When the itinerary did not arrive, I called back and she told me, "We’re still working on that."                   [ . . . c o n t i n u e d . . . ]

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