Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s complex for you: What about sales to a non-profit business, taxable or not? How are installment sales/purchases handled? Is the tax going to be paid in advance or as payments are received? If the tax is paid when received, at what rate? The rate in effect when the transaction occured, or the rate in effect when the payment is received? How about services industries? Are their services taxable or not? How about business purchases, taxable or not? Does it depend on whether the items are for business use or for resale? How about individuals and businesses that purchase from overseas sources (avoiding the NRST)? What about purchases, made by a foreign entity, from a US entity? Taxable or not? What about sales to governments? Taxable or not? What about sales of medications to senior citizens? Taxable or not? What about the kid selling lemonade on the corner, taxable or not?
All these are issues we deal with in the current Internal Revenue Code — and these issues are covered in depth in a tiny fraction of the existing code. The items you mentioned are not complex, at least in the context of a proposed NST Code. Most of the issues you mentioned are already dealt with in State sales tax codes. When I practiced in Texas, the entire Sales tax code fit comfortably in a small 3-ring binder. Suppose the federal code multiples that by 50. Still much less complex than the existing Internal Revenue Code. When you consider it applies to only 1% the number of taxpayers, you have a much lower complexity times 1% of the taxpayers. I don’t know of any other way to say it — that HAS to translate to a net reduction in complexity. Whether or not you care to see it, any NRST will be full of loopholes, exemptions, exceptions, phase-ins, phase-outs, floors, ceilings, and other various "what-ifs" by the time it becomes law.
Maybe. But none will anywhere near as complex as Regulations Section 704(b) or the rules under IRC 469. And the sheer volume will be only a fraction of what we have now. A NST is NOT about simplifying the rate structure. It is about eliminating the consideration of those items in the tax code & regulations that cause all the problems. It is about cutting the number of taxpayers to one percent of the current number of taxpayers. Somehow you have bought an idea without test driving it. 1% ? Please.
Uh, I’ve been following this subject closely since the concept first arose in the late 80s. Perhaps YOU ought to follow it if you’re interested… It is about eliminating some 1 BILLION tax forms submitted and processed annually. And there would be, at a minimum, 12 tax returns filed each year (one a month) if not more.
Not necessarily. Some proposals involve using the existing state agencies to administer the tax and returns. And most returns would likely be filed online, as you don’t need to be a CPA to do the return. At any rate, the number of returns is dramatically reduced, and the complexity of each return is nowhere near the complexity of the returns currently required (for example, even with the state agency collecting the tax, the return would certainly be much less complex than a schedule A, C, form 4562, AMT, or any of hundreds of other income tax forms that are, simply put, absurdly complex — to the point where the average CPA can’t prepare them without a computer. And I agree that it doesn’t automagically lower fraud or enforcement costs. But there are reasonable arguments for the notion that it offers some "fairness" that taxation of income doesn’t. If you eliminate 99% of the taxpayers, Says who? Are you saying that only 1% of the tax returns filed each year are from businesses? Please provide a reliable cite to your source.
The 1% figure has been around a while, and I’m not sure where it came from. However, "according to the Tax Foundation, with an NST, compliance costs for businesses and workers would fall by more than 90 percent. [17] That is the equivalent of adding $1,000 to $2,500 to the income of every household in the United States.". This is from the best study on the subject (there are tons of them), which can be found at the following link: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-272.html. I recommend you read it; you clearly don’t have the facts. As I said in my original post, no cogent argument can be made against the NST in lieu of a federal income tax.
Response:
I’m sorry, if the price of an item (the total cost when you pay for it, including taxes) goes up, isn’t that inflation? The cost of the house is $200,000, times a 20% NRST, $240,000 – oh, by the way, you don’t get any tax breaks from the mortgage interest, and in fact, would have to pay an NRST on the interest itself.
Whatever it is, it isn’t anything like "inflation" as we know it. Inflation is defined as "A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services". Note the "caused by". The adoption of a NST would be the next step toward elimination of the CPA. One I would support. My business would increase from an NRST. In additoin to doubling the workload on tax filings, there would be lots of (probably audited) personal financial statements that I’d need to prepare for the banks and lenders to loan money.
If so, you have an unusual CPA practice, indeed. There certainly would not be a doubling of tax filings (unless the number of 1040/1065/1120/1120S/1041s you do is less than half the number of sales tax returns you do; as I said, that would be an unusual accounting practice). I’m not sure why the adoption of a NST would lead to an increased number of PFSs you would do. And audits of them? Give me a break.
Response:
The first thing that’ll happen is, every retailer and service provider (YES, services will be taxed also) will just tack on the new sales tax to their existing prices. Result = instant inflation to the tune of 20 – 30%. Eventually market forces will smooth things out, but you’ll likely never notice that. Nonsense. It isn’t inflation if there is a corresponding decrease (as there would be) in income-based taxes.
I’m sorry, if the price of an item (the total cost when you pay for it, including taxes) goes up, isn’t that inflation? The cost of the house is $200,000, times a 20% NRST, $240,000 – oh, by the way, you don’t get any tax breaks from the mortgage interest, and in fact, would have to pay an NRST on the interest itself. The adoption of a NST would be the next step toward elimination of the CPA. One I would support.
My business would increase from an NRST. In additoin to doubling the workload on tax filings, there would be lots of (probably audited) personal financial statements that I’d need to prepare for the banks and lenders to loan money. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia
Response:
Having the combination has some "compliance" merits insofar as sales tax and income tax are likely to correlate; a company that declares one but not the other is quite likely to be up to something shady. But it has the downside that it clearly involves /two/ complex sets of regulations.
A substantial point in replacing the income tax with a NST is that we replace a ridiculously complex tax code with a NST code that is maybe 5% the scope of the Internal Revenue Code. I don’t think there is a significant chance people will support BOTH types of tax. There’s an advantage that isn’t, namely that using sales taxes diminishes the number of organizations collecting taxes. The theory typically presented is that income taxes involve all citizens, whilst sales taxes are collected through companies, which means a smaller number of places where the government has to collect taxes.
This is a HUGE benefit that will produce an economic surge from the increased productivity of Americans. But reality is that income taxes are mostly collected through tax deductions "at source," through much the same sorts of companies that are and would be collecting sales taxes…
Oh, but you get rid of some 1 BILLION annual tax and information returns filed by people OTHER than the entities collecting taxes.
Response:
You have nailed the biggest problem with implementing a NST — politically, Congress wants to have some way to control the public. The tax code is one of their best. I can’t see them letting go of it unless Bush gets a 2nd term with a Republican congress.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t believe that government will go to a sales tax and eliminate the income tax unless they can figure a way to continue their social and economic engineering without an income tax. Income tax is not about collecting revenue. Annamarie
Response:
A substantial point in replacing the income tax with a NST is that we replace a ridiculously complex tax code with a NST code that is maybe 5% the scope of the Internal Revenue Code. I don’t think there is a significant chance people will support BOTH types of tax.
Of course we will – though we may not exactly come out and say so. The voters in the state of Washington have repeatedly rejected any and all forms of an "income" tax, preferring to finance the state via "sales" taxes. Nevertheless, services (accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc, etc.) are exempt from the sales tax but subject to what we call a b&o (business and occupations) tax. So what is our b&o tax. Presently it is a 1.5% gross receipts tax. How did this come about. Professionals in this state have very effectively resisted being subject to the sales tax, and have accepted the b&o tax as a political compromise. It is in fact an income tax – with very few deductions. The idea of a simple tax system does have a certain charm. The "flat" income tax and the national sales tax are two perennial favorites. Reality is that neither can or will happen in an economy as large and diverse as ours. Jim Hudspeth, CPA
Response:
I certainly agree that it would not "simplify" anything about the tax system. The bulk of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with determining what transactions taxes should be applied to, and how. This statement is nothing short of ridiculous. The "bulk" of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with such things as PARTNERSHIPS, CORPORATIONS, TRUSTS, DEDUCTIONS, WITHHOLDING, PENALTIES, INSTALLMENT SALES, etc. ALL that goes away. You’re left with a miniscule tax code required for implementing a flat tax ON SALES REVENUE.
Here’s complex for you: What about sales to a non-profit business, taxable or not? How are installment sales/purchases handled? Is the tax going to be paid in advance or as payments are received? If the tax is paid when received, at what rate? The rate in effect when the transaction occured, or the rate in effect when the payment is received? How about services industries? Are their services taxable or not? How about business purchases, taxable or not? Does it depend on whether the items are for business use or for resale? How about individuals and businesses that purchase from overseas sources (avoiding the NRST)? What about purchases, made by a foreign entity, from a US entity? Taxable or not? What about sales to governments? Taxable or not? What about sales of medications to senior citizens? Taxable or not? What about the kid selling lemonade on the corner, taxable or not? Whether or not you care to see it, any NRST will be full of loopholes, exemptions, exceptions, phase-ins, phase-outs, floors, ceilings, and other various "what-ifs" by the time it becomes law. People get the /impression/ that the tax system is complex because of the "variable tax rates" associated with different income levels. Reality is that this only represents a couple pages of complexity, as far as the regulations go. Simplifying the rate structure would have minimal impact on /actual/ complexity. A NST is NOT about simplifying the rate structure. It is about eliminating the consideration of those items in the tax code & regulations that cause all the problems. It is about cutting the number of taxpayers to one percent of the current number of taxpayers.
Somehow you have bought an idea without test driving it. 1% ? Please. It is about eliminating some 1 BILLION tax forms submitted and processed annually.
And there would be, at a minimum, 12 tax returns filed each year (one a month) if not more. And I agree that it doesn’t automagically lower fraud or enforcement costs. But there are reasonable arguments for the notion that it offers some "fairness" that taxation of income doesn’t. If you eliminate 99% of the taxpayers,
Says who? Are you saying that only 1% of the tax returns filed each year are from businesses? Please provide a reliable cite to your source. you are "automatically" going to lower fraud AND enforcement costs. This doesn’t even consider the slashing of the code and regs to a fraction of the current size. I get the idea you really haven’t thought about your statements here.
Ditto. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia
Response:
I certainly agree that it would not "simplify" anything about the tax system. The bulk of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with determining what transactions taxes should be applied to, and how.
This statement is nothing short of ridiculous. The "bulk" of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with such things as PARTNERSHIPS, CORPORATIONS, TRUSTS, DEDUCTIONS, WITHHOLDING, PENALTIES, INSTALLMENT SALES, etc. ALL that goes away. You’re left with a miniscule tax code required for implementing a flat tax ON SALES REVENUE. People get the /impression/ that the tax system is complex because of the "variable tax rates" associated with different income levels. Reality is that this only represents a couple pages of complexity, as far as the regulations go. Simplifying the rate structure would have minimal impact on /actual/ complexity.
A NST is NOT about simplifying the rate structure. It is about eliminating the consideration of those items in the tax code & regulations that cause all the problems. It is about cutting the number of taxpayers to one percent of the current number of taxpayers. It is about eliminating some 1 BILLION tax forms submitted and processed annually. And I agree that it doesn’t automagically lower fraud or enforcement costs. But there are reasonable arguments for the notion that it offers some "fairness" that taxation of income doesn’t.
If you eliminate 99% of the taxpayers, you are "automatically" going to lower fraud AND enforcement costs. This doesn’t even consider the slashing of the code and regs to a fraction of the current size. I get the idea you really haven’t thought about your statements here. A really pointed problem with income taxation is that it strongly discourages savings by repeatedly taxing whatever is earned; sales taxes rather more encourage savings.
Correct. But this is one minor aspect of the change to a NST. But there’s certainly room for disagreement as to the relative merits; I don’t think it’s an all-bad idea, by any means. — http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/multiplexor.html "C++ is more of a rube-goldberg type thing full of high-voltages, large chain-driven gears, sharp edges, exploding widgets, and spots to get your fingers crushed. And because of it’s complexity many (if not most) of it’s users don’t know how it works, and can’t tell ahead of time what’s going to cause them to loose an arm." — Grant Edwards
I recognize the above statement isn’t part of your NST commentary, however, it fails to mention that C++ is also the most elegant, powerful, flexible programming language ever developed.
Response:
Uh, I think I have a pretty good idea what CPAs do. I was in public practice for 15 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The adoption of a NST would be the next step toward elimination of the CPA. One I would support. I add to the list of things you don’t understand, what CPAs do.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I certainly agree that it would not "simplify" anything about the tax system. The bulk of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with determining what transactions taxes should be applied to, and how. People get the /impression/ that the tax system is complex because of the "variable tax rates" associated with different income levels. Reality is that this only represents a couple pages of complexity, as far as the regulations go. Simplifying the rate structure would have minimal impact on /actual/ complexity. And I agree that it doesn’t automagically lower fraud or enforcement costs. But there are reasonable arguments for the notion that it offers some "fairness" that taxation of income doesn’t. A really pointed problem with income taxation is that it strongly discourages savings by repeatedly taxing whatever is earned; sales taxes rather more encourage savings. But there’s certainly room for disagreement as to the relative merits; I don’t think it’s an all-bad idea, by any means. With a little luck we can follow the example of North Carolina (& some others) and have both an income tax and a sales tax. The State of Washington has no income tax, Oregon has no sales tax. I don’t think we (Washington) are really any better off tax wise than our Oregon neighbors. Jim Hudspeth
And California has both a sales tax (7.75%) and an income tax (I think top rate is 11%) and it still isn’t enough. Steve Forbes ran on the flat income tax, one rate. But it went know where. Maybe after the economic collapse. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
Response:
I don’t believe that government will go to a sales tax and eliminate the income tax unless they can figure a way to continue their social and economic engineering without an income tax. Income tax is not about collecting revenue. Annamarie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I certainly agree that it would not "simplify" anything about the tax system. The bulk of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with determining what transactions taxes should be applied to, and how. People get the /impression/ that the tax system is complex because of the "variable tax rates" associated with different income levels. Reality is that this only represents a couple pages of complexity, as far as the regulations go. Simplifying the rate structure would have minimal impact on /actual/ complexity. And I agree that it doesn’t automagically lower fraud or enforcement costs. But there are reasonable arguments for the notion that it offers some "fairness" that taxation of income doesn’t. A really pointed problem with income taxation is that it strongly discourages savings by repeatedly taxing whatever is earned; sales taxes rather more encourage savings. But there’s certainly room for disagreement as to the relative merits; I don’t think it’s an all-bad idea, by any means. With a little luck we can follow the example of North Carolina (& some others) and have both an income tax and a sales tax. The State of Washington has no income tax, Oregon has no sales tax. I don’t think we (Washington) are really any better off tax wise than our Oregon neighbors.
Having the combination has some "compliance" merits insofar as sales tax and income tax are likely to correlate; a company that declares one but not the other is quite likely to be up to something shady. But it has the downside that it clearly involves /two/ complex sets of regulations. There’s an advantage that isn’t, namely that using sales taxes diminishes the number of organizations collecting taxes. The theory typically presented is that income taxes involve all citizens, whilst sales taxes are collected through companies, which means a smaller number of places where the government has to collect taxes. But reality is that income taxes are mostly collected through tax deductions "at source," through much the same sorts of companies that are and would be collecting sales taxes… — http://cbbrowne.com/info/multiplexor.html When they ship styrofoam, what do they pack it in?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I certainly agree that it would not "simplify" anything about the tax system. The bulk of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with determining what transactions taxes should be applied to, and how. People get the /impression/ that the tax system is complex because of the "variable tax rates" associated with different income levels. Reality is that this only represents a couple pages of complexity, as far as the regulations go. Simplifying the rate structure would have minimal impact on /actual/ complexity. And I agree that it doesn’t automagically lower fraud or enforcement costs. But there are reasonable arguments for the notion that it offers some "fairness" that taxation of income doesn’t. A really pointed problem with income taxation is that it strongly discourages savings by repeatedly taxing whatever is earned; sales taxes rather more encourage savings. But there’s certainly room for disagreement as to the relative merits; I don’t think it’s an all-bad idea, by any means.
With a little luck we can follow the example of North Carolina (& some others) and have both an income tax and a sales tax. The State of Washington has no income tax, Oregon has no sales tax. I don’t think we (Washington) are really any better off tax wise than our Oregon neighbors. Jim Hudspeth
Response:
The adoption of a NST would be the next step toward elimination of the CPA. One I would support.
I add to the list of things you don’t understand, what CPAs do.
Response:
My understanding is the Supreme and Congress set 99% of the stage for a national sales tax back in the heyday of the internet when they were desperately trying to find a way to tax internet sales. The main driving force for the effort was the internet, the government wanted to be set for the day when the internet "really" took off. Of course that was before the Dot Com bombs. My understanding is that the ground work was all set….
.. And anyone stupid enough to think that "taxing the Internet" would somehow magically solve all their taxation problems is, well, stupid. Internet commerce does not differ particularly meaningfully from traditional mail order commerce. How is it different to: a) Send a message asking to "buy stuff" using email? a) Send a message asking to "buy stuff" using a web app? a) Send a message asking to "buy stuff" by calling one of the "Operators standing by!!"? The great excitement of "Internet taxation" of two years ago involved wilful ignorance of the fact that "internet commerce" /isn’t/, for the most part, any different from mail order. The only thing that does differ is "information services" subscriptions, and they could probably be well-understood (economically) by looking at the way 1-900 services are handled. The "Internet bubble" happened for much the same reason, that people imagined it was so totally new as to make existing economic thinking totally obsolete. That may happen on Star Trek, but that’s not the real world… — http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/rdbms.html "My experience as a member of the APB (Accounting Principles Board) taught me many lessons. A major one was that most of us have a natural tendency and an incredible talent for processing new facts in such a way that our prior conclusions remain intact." — Charles Horngren
Response:
Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher.
That’s ridiculous, it would be more like 20% and it would surely be more like a VAT or consumption tax. A VAT or consumption tax would make a lot of sense. Unfortunately it does not provide any progressivity and here in the US, "Tax the Rich" is a very potent force. The likelihood of a national sales tax without deductions: zero. No possibility at all. The likelihood of any national VAT or consumption tax without a repeal of the income tax: I think, nearly zero. People would fear it as an additional tax. The likelihood of any VAT or consumption tax: zero, unless there is a *very* big breakdown in the economics of trade, or the income tax system. So, you can now go back to sleep! What you see is what you get, for the next 10-20 years at least. Todd
Response:
My understanding is the Supreme and Congress set 99% of the stage for a national sales tax back in the heyday of the internet when they were desperately trying to find a way to tax internet sales. The main driving force for the effort was the internet, the government wanted to be set for the day when the internet "really" took off. Of course that was before the Dot Com bombs. My understanding is that the ground work was all set….
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher. My opinion is that it will NOT achieve the claimed objectives of simplification and reduced tax fraud. It will not lower enforcement costs. It will shift tax burden from the very wealthy to the rest of us. It is a bad idea.
I certainly agree that it would not "simplify" anything about the tax system. The bulk of the complexities of the tax regulations have to do with determining what transactions taxes should be applied to, and how. People get the /impression/ that the tax system is complex because of the "variable tax rates" associated with different income levels. Reality is that this only represents a couple pages of complexity, as far as the regulations go. Simplifying the rate structure would have minimal impact on /actual/ complexity. And I agree that it doesn’t automagically lower fraud or enforcement costs. But there are reasonable arguments for the notion that it offers some "fairness" that taxation of income doesn’t. A really pointed problem with income taxation is that it strongly discourages savings by repeatedly taxing whatever is earned; sales taxes rather more encourage savings. But there’s certainly room for disagreement as to the relative merits; I don’t think it’s an all-bad idea, by any means. — http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/multiplexor.html "C++ is more of a rube-goldberg type thing full of high-voltages, large chain-driven gears, sharp edges, exploding widgets, and spots to get your fingers crushed. And because of it’s complexity many (if not most) of it’s users don’t know how it works, and can’t tell ahead of time what’s going to cause them to loose an arm." — Grant Edwards
Response:
A national sales tax most assuredly WILL achieve the objectives of simplification and reduced tax fraud. While a straight flat-rate tax would shift tax burden, it need not, and at least one proposal would provide for a rebate to effectively exempt low-income taxpayers. It is an excellent idea and I’ve yet to see ANYONE make a cogent, effective argument against it. David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher. My opinion is that it will NOT achieve the claimed objectives of simplification and reduced tax fraud. It will not lower enforcement costs. It will shift tax burden from the very wealthy to the rest of us. It is a bad idea.
Response:
I had given up after Bill Archer retired. I am heartened by the Bush administration’s interest in at least moving to a consumption-based tax. Like you, I highly doubt it is politically doable. But if it WERE done, it would be the greatest thing that could conceivably happen to our economy.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher. That’s ridiculous, it would be more like 20% and it would surely be more like a VAT or consumption tax. A VAT or consumption tax would make a lot of sense. Unfortunately it does not provide any progressivity and here in the US, "Tax the Rich" is a very potent force. The likelihood of a national sales tax without deductions: zero. No possibility at all. The likelihood of any national VAT or consumption tax without a repeal of the income tax: I think, nearly zero. People would fear it as an additional tax. The likelihood of any VAT or consumption tax: zero, unless there is a *very* big breakdown in the economics of trade, or the income tax system. So, you can now go back to sleep! What you see is what you get, for the next 10-20 years at least. Todd
Response:
It gets drug out every now and then when politicians have little else to campaign on. These last few years though, don’t lend themselves to making big changes like that.
You’re right about this. The obstruction in the Democrat-controlled Senate has reached new highs during the last two years. Unless we got a Republican majority, I can’t see radical reform like this happening — not only in the area of taxation, but in damned near any other area of government. which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)?
I’ve seen no plan that would incorporate state plans with the federal. Given the political difficulty of just getting a federal consumption tax to replace the income tax, I would rate it as an "impossibility". Nothing I’ve seen indicates that the feds can tell the states what to do in this area. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. Each state decides if they want to tax income, each state sets their own tax rates. The first thing that’ll happen is, every retailer and service provider (YES, services will be taxed also) will just tack on the new sales tax to their existing prices. Result = instant inflation to the tune of 20 – 30%. Eventually market forces will smooth things out, but you’ll likely never notice that.
Nonsense. It isn’t inflation if there is a corresponding decrease (as there would be) in income-based taxes. Second, financial record keeping and reporting of some kind will still be a necessity. Go out and borrow $200,000 for a home. Do they ask you how much you spent in the last three years? – NO – They ask to see copies of tax returns, and they want to verify income. The big verifier is the IRS and to a lesser extent, the state tax agencies. Go ahead, retire. The SSA is based on EARNINGS, not spending. So, there will still be that type of system in place.
The adoption of a NST would be the next step toward elimination of the CPA. One I would support.
Response:
Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher.
My opinion is that it will NOT achieve the claimed objectives of simplification and reduced tax fraud. It will not lower enforcement costs. It will shift tax burden from the very wealthy to the rest of us. It is a bad idea.
Response:
Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax,
It gets drug out every now and then when politicians have little else to campaign on. These last few years though, don’t lend themselves to making big changes like that. which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)?
Nothing I’ve seen indicates that the feds can tell the states what to do in this area. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. Each state decides if they want to tax income, each state sets their own tax rates. I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic,
Didn’t hear about it. the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this?
The first thing that’ll happen is, every retailer and service provider (YES, services will be taxed also) will just tack on the new sales tax to their existing prices. Result = instant inflation to the tune of 20 – 30%. Eventually market forces will smooth things out, but you’ll likely never notice that. Second, financial record keeping and reporting of some kind will still be a necessity. Go out and borrow $200,000 for a home. Do they ask you how much you spent in the last three years? – NO – They ask to see copies of tax returns, and they want to verify income. The big verifier is the IRS and to a lesser extent, the state tax agencies. Go ahead, retire. The SSA is based on EARNINGS, not spending. So, there will still be that type of system in place. And the list goes on and on. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia
Response:
The Bush administration is thinking of proposing a consumption-based tax: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43402-2002Oct30.html I don’t think it is as you describe, however.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher.
Response:
Has anyone heard anything about the establishment of a national sales tax, which will virtually eliminate income taxes at the individual level (both federal and state)? I am asking that because there was a national tax conference held with members from nearly all 50 states and this was the topic, the establishment of a national sales tax. What is anyone’s opinion on this? To put this in perspective, if there is going to be a national sales tax established that will eliminate the income tax, just think about how high this tax is going to be. It is going to probably be around 50% or higher.
Response:
Question:
Tired of NOT making money on the internet? Did you REALLY believe that ALL you had to do was: Put up a web page somewhere in Cyberspace with beautiful graphics, the latest Java and some frames; Advertise in a few free classifieds; Act like an expert in newsgroups; since you’re not supposed to advertise in them; And, customers were going to beat a path to your door. If you believed that- BOY, have I got some swampland in Florida for you! If you want to make money on the internet, YOU’D better be PROACTIVE! YOU’D better go after business like you MEAN IT! YOU’D better send some E-MAIL – Lots of it! And YOU’D better tell your story as much as you can, as often as you can, to whomever you can! WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. Bulk e-mail works! If you know how to write an ad, identify a need, and fullfill it with your product, you can make money on the Internet EVEN on a very limited budget. This form of advertising has been proven MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE than other forms of advertising because people read their e-mail. And, the message will wait in the recipient’s e-mail box until it is read. Your message is SEEN not buried! Your business deserves a piece of the fastest growing industry in the U.S.- THE HOME-BASED BUSINESS INDUSTRY ( $427 billion in annual sales). Internet sales are projected to be over $10 billion by the year 2000, up from $300 million in 1994. We’ve got the addresses YOU need. A Web site alone, posting through newsgroups and registering with a few search engines while placing a few classifieds just won’t work. How do you find the people interested in your product? or better put……. HOW DO PEOPLE INTERESTED IN YOUR PRODUCT FIND YOU? YOU HAVE TO Let ‘em know you’re there. YOU MUST Tell them about your product the BEST WAY… by E-MAIL! How do you know WHO THEY ARE, and WHERE THEY ARE? Put your sales message in front of responsive buyers. Our lists are compiled from active and willing on-line purchasers and entrepreneurs. THESE ARE SERIOUS CUSTOMERS LOOKING FOR SERIOUS OFFERS! These BUYERS want to read and hear more about your products/services. Our list is updated daily with fresh and new email addresses. Even if you receive 1/10 of 1% response for mailing 1,000,000 email addresses you would receive 1000 replies !!!! How much money would you make? Save TIME and MONEY! Make money on the seat of your Pants! Focus entirely on your sales. Let us do your mailing for you at these INCREDIBLY LOW RATES: GENERAL EMAIL ADDRESS PRICING _____YES- mail my message to 100,000 responsive buyers for $129.95 _____YES- mail my message to 250,000 responsive buyers for $239.95 _____YES- mail my message to 500,000 responsive buyers for $399.95 _____YES- mail my message to 1,000,000 responsive buyers for $549.95 _____YES- mail my message to 2,000,000 responsive buyers for $899.95 *** NEW!! TARGET BY CITY, STATE OR AREA CODE!!!! *** TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESS PRICING _____YES- mail my message to 20,000 targeted buyers for $229.95 _____YES- mail my message to 50,000 targeted buyers for $349.95 _____YES- mail my message to 100,000 targeted buyers for $499.95 ART, ANIMAL TENDING, ASTROLOGY, ASTRONOMY, ADVERTISING, AUTOMOTIVE, AWARDS, ACCOUNTING, AUCTIONS, AUDIO, AUTO, AIRCRAFT, ANTIQUES, AVIATION, ARTS, BUILDING RELATED, AGRICULTURE, BOATING, BUSINESS EQUIPMENT, BOATS, BEAUTY PRODUCTS, BERRIES, BOOKS, BUSINESS, BUSINESS SERVICES, BEER & WINE, BEAUTY PRODUCTS, CHILD CARE, COMPUTERS, CARDS, CAMERAS, CAMPING, CATALOGS, CONSUMERS ELECTRONICS, CLOTHING COMICS CHARITABLE ORGS,CRAFTS, CONSTRUCTION, COLLECTIBLES, CHRISTMAS, COMMUNICATIONS,DENTAL, COMEDY, CONTESTS, DRINK, DOCTORS, EMPLOYMENT, ENTERTAINMENT, ENVIRONMENT, EATERIES, ETHNIC, EDUCATION, FASHION/CLOTHING/ACCESSORIES, FAMILY, FINANCE, FISHING, FLOWERS, FIRE SAFETY, FOOD, FOOTWEAR, GARDENING & PLANTS, GIFTS, GREETING CARDS, GAMBLING, GAMES, GUNS GAMES, HEALTH & MEDICINE HOBBIES HOLIDAYS HUMOR, HUNTING, HOME DECORATING,HORSES INTERNET RELATED, INVESTMENTS, MEDIA, LISTS, MAGAZINES, MEDICAL, MEDICINE, MISCELLANEOUS, MODELS, MOVIES, MONEY, MLM, MUSIC, NEWS, NEWSLINKS, OFFFICE, PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT, PERFORMING, PONIES, PHOTOGRAPHY, POLITICAL, PROFESSIONALS, PLANTS, PSYCHOLOGY, PUBLISHING, REAL ESTATE, RELIGION, SCIENCE , SECURITY, SHOPPING, SOFTWARE, STATIONERY, STOCKS, STOCK TRADERS, SCIENCE, SPIRITUALITY, SELF HELP, SPORTS, SPORTS EQUIPMENT, SURPLUS, SURVEYS, SEASONAL ITEMS, TELEMARKETING, TECHNOLOGY, TELEPHONE, TELEPONES, TRADE, TRANSPORTATION, TRAVEL, TROPHIES, TV, VIDEO, WEDDINGS, WILDERNESS CAMPING, WRITERS, WEATHER, WEB DESIGN, and many, many more!!!!!! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< We Mail , Mail , Mail……. REMEMBER: Get 1/10 of 1% and from a mailing af 1,000,000 email addresses and you get 1000 replies!!! Would you make any money? We take CHECKS BY FAX get our most up to date list mailed for YOU by ordering NOW ! ! Call 407-956-1151 to order by phone or Fax your order to 407-952-7984. Office hours are Mon-Fri 10 am – 6 pm Eastern Standard Time. Make checks or money order payable to: PICC Or mail check or money order to: Progressive Internet Communications, Co. P.O. Box 100512 Palm Bay, Florida 32910-0512 ORDER YOUR MAILING PROGRAM TODAY ! ! ORDER FORM Check Ordering info: Name and Address ( exactly as it appears on check) **Fraction Code(numbers that appear below check number on top right) Numbers at Bottom of check(read left to right please indicate blank spaces == TAPE CHECK HERE == ***Mailings are usually done within 3 to 5 business days from the date we receive payment. ** PLEASE BE SURE TO INCLUDE A SUBJECT LINE WITH YOUR AD** **IF ORDERING FROM OUTSIDE THE US PLEASE SEND US POSTAL MONEY ORDER**
Response:
Question:
I have had it with BoehringeMannhe they will only sell the cable to doctors so I am going to buy a one touch profile if they lose enough business may be they will start to sell the cable there is no reason for them to withhold the cable
Response:
I have had it with BoehringeMannhe they will only sell the cable to doctors so I am going to buy a one touch profile if they lose enough business may be they will start to sell the cable there is no reason for them to withhold the cable
Hi This morning I sent a message to the president of BM. If more of the users switch to One Touch and tell BM, then they will listen. Here is the msg I sent this morning: Mr. Hubert Rehkaemper, President, BM Dear Mr. Rehkaemper: I am presently using your Advantage Meter with great satisfaction. Some time ago, I switched from the One Touch II meter made by your competitor Life Scan. When I bought the Life Scan Meter, I wanted to get a cable to transfer the meter readings from the meter to my Personal Compute. When I called Life Scan and asked for the cable, the company shipped me a cable for free. At this time there is *free* software available on the internet which can receive the data from the One Touch II and process it. I believe the policy of Life Scan giving the cable for free seems to be based on the fact that money is made in selling strips,) not the meter, not the cable, not the software) which every diabetic is going to use for his or her life time, which can be a very long time. I understand that at this time, it is the policy of your company not to either give away or sell or provide interface specification for the cable. With the increased use of households having computers, the users do want to use them for all their uses. Especially the diabetics keeping a record does help them as well as the physicians who treat them. I hope you will look into the above issue and hope your company will decide to provide cable if not software. I am also posting this message on the internet usenet group for the general information of everyone. I would be looking forward to hearing from you on this matter. M K Ramadoss PS: If you have not visited internet, I urge you to see all the discussion that goes on the diabetics forum on usenet which is distributed and accessed all over the world. Peace to all living beings. M K Ramadoss
Response:
Does anyone know any information about a cable that connects an AccuChek Advantage glucose meter to a PC’s RS232 port? According to Boehringer Mannheim, they will sell a cable with their software sometime later in the future, but I would like to start downloading data to my PC now. Does anyone have any information about the cable and the software communications protocol the AccuChek Advantage uses? Thanks, John
Hi Here is a followup on the cable. It looks like we may have to purchase it from overseas. This was a message I sent to the top marketing man in BM. MKR Message to UK: Hi Here is the reply that I got from BM(USA). My message was forwarded to their top marketing man who responded. You may also see my response to him. BTW, could you tell me at what price the Accucheck Easy cable is sold in UK? Also can one order it from the US? Thanks. MK Ramadoss Reply to BM in the USA Hi Thanks for your information. I would be looking forward to any new software product which is cost effective from the end user point of view. I do understand that the needs of health care professionals is different from those of end users. However, having been around computer hardware/software industry for over three decades, one of the facts of life is the dramatic drop in the PC software cost. A classic example is the way Quicken became one of the leaders in personal financial software is their low cost. For example I have purchased their program for less than $20 even though a California company with $20 million annual sales is using this program for several years to run their accounting operation. In addition to this, PC industry has seen what is known as freeware and shareware. Freeware is free. Shareware is programs you can get for free to use for a limited amount of time and then register it for a very small fee ranging from $5 to $50. Many of these programs are put on Internet so that they can be retrieved by users with no human intervention. This makes the program accessible all over the world instantaneously 24 hours of the day seven days of the week. This cuts down all the overhead costs that drives up the cost of the software. Most PC end users may not be either willing or would refuse to purchase high priced PC software. I hope these factors are taken into account when your marketing strategy is developed. As for the cable, I am sure if the specifications are available, some genius can come up with a simple solution which cost very little. One of the easiest ways is to put it on the internet so that you will have free exposure to some of the brightest and sharpest minds in the computer hardware industry all over the world who will find a quick cost effective solution at no cost to BM. As for your competitor’s One Touch meter, there is a free software is available for down load from Internet. I do not know if you have seen it. If not it may be a very interesting exercise to see what is out there. I would appreciate your feedback after you had a chance to look at the software. thanks for the prompt response MK Ramadoss BM USA) response to my inquiry: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear MK Ramadoss: Your message regarding interface cables was forwarded to my attention. I am currently in the Diabetes Care product marketing group at Boehringer Mannheim and deal directly with our software products for diabetes. Perhaps I can provide additional insight. Boehringer Mannheim is currently working with many third party software firms on the integration of the Accu-Chek interface into their consumer software. Some of this software, such as Mellitus Manager by MetaMedix Interface protocol and cable included. From a proprietary standpoint, Boehringer Mannheim has focused primarily on the development of software for use by the health care professional. We are evolving this strategy for the future to include the broader availability of both cables and software. Concerning your second message regarding the availability of cables overseas as well as the cost of cables. Again, perhaps I can provide additional insight. Each manufacturer develops their own policies concerning the distribution and availability of software. Within the Boehringer Mannheim Group each company develops their own strategic sales and marketing plans based on the current situation within their respective country. The decisions regarding software, software support and cables are driven by the products (monitors and software) each Boehringer Mannheim country carries, local business opportunities and a host of other market drivers. As I mentioned above, and based on key market drivers and interest which has been expressed by individuals such as yourself, in the United States we working towards a broader connectivity strategy for both health care professionals and consumers. As to the cost of cables, I agree that many cables are available for under $5 which can be used for connecting a variety of computer peripherals; however, the cables currently used in many blood glucose monitors, including those manufactured by Boehringer Mannheim, are a great deal more expensive. The cost of these cables are driven up by issues such as the communication protocol, level shifters, electronics housing, power sourcing, etc. You may be surprised to know that the cost (material and labor) to produce a specialized interface cable may exceed the actual cost of producing a blood glucose monitor. Boehringer Mannheim will continue to strive to deliver the best products (blood glucose monitors, test strips, software, cables, etc.) at the best possible price. As part of our evolving connectivity strategy we are working towards broader availability of cables and software, however, at this time Boehringer Mannheim is not offering interface cables except through the purchase of third party software such as Mellitus Manager. We appreciate comments from valued customers like yourself and hope you continue to support our products. I hope you find this information helpful.
Response:
Does anyone know any information about a cable that connects an AccuChek Advantage glucose meter to a PC’s RS232 port? According to Boehringer Mannheim, they will sell a cable with their software sometime later in the future, but I would like to start downloading data to my PC now. Does anyone have any information about the cable and the software communications protocol the AccuChek Advantage uses? Thanks, John
Did you ask them if they could give you specs? If they are still not willing, then you have to try and get the cable which works with One touch meters and see if it works. Peace to all living beings. M K Ramadoss
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know any information about a cable that connects an AccuChek Advantage glucose meter to a PC’s RS232 port? According to Boehringer Mannheim, they will sell a cable with their software sometime later in the future, but I would like to start downloading data to my PC now. Does anyone have any information about the cable and the software communications protocol the AccuChek Advantage uses? Thanks, John Unfortunately, your data are correct. B-M will not sell or give their cable to individuals with diabetes. B-M seems to have forgotten who buys the strips for their meters. They will provide it to health care providers, so you might determine if the MD/RN who follows your diabetes has an appropriate computer in his/her office and if they would request a cable from the B-M representative. The software they provide is mediocre and a better program is available for free at http://gcrc.meds.cwru.edu/glucpage.htm Your only other current choice is to change to a meter from a more enlightened company like Lifescan.
Once a cable is obtained thru your suggested course of action, any electronics store which makes custom cables can dismantle and see how the wires are connected. Once this is available, anyone can make a cable from parts from Radio Shack. Peace to all living beings. M K Ramadoss
Response:
Does anyone know any information about a cable that connects an AccuChek Advantage glucose meter to a PC’s RS232 port? According to Boehringer Mannheim, they will sell a cable with their software sometime later in the future, but I would like to start downloading data to my PC now. Does anyone have any information about the cable and the software communications protocol the AccuChek Advantage uses? Thanks, John
Unfortunately, your data are correct. B-M will not sell or give their cable to individuals with diabetes. B-M seems to have forgotten who buys the strips for their meters. They will provide it to health care providers, so you might determine if the MD/RN who follows your diabetes has an appropriate computer in his/her office and if they would request a cable from the B-M representative. The software they provide is mediocre and a better program is available for free at http://gcrc.meds.cwru.edu/glucpage.htm Your only other current choice is to change to a meter from a more enlightened company like Lifescan.
Response:
Does anyone know any information about a cable that connects an AccuChek Advantage glucose meter to a PC’s RS232 port? According to Boehringer Mannheim, they will sell a cable with their software sometime later in the future, but I would like to start downloading data to my PC now. Does anyone have any information about the cable and the software communications protocol the AccuChek Advantage uses? Thanks, John
Response:
Does anyone know any information about a cable that connects an AccuChek Advantage glucose meter to a PC’s RS232 port? According to Boehringer Mannheim, they will sell a cable with their software sometime later in the future, but I would like to start downloading data to my PC now. Does anyone have any information about the cable and the software communications protocol the AccuChek Advantage uses?
I’ve called Boehringer Mannheim and asked for the needed hardware and software and got the reply that it was in development. I told them if it wasn’t available soon, I was going to get a LifeScan meter. If -enough- AccuChek users do this, they may get off their duffs and make the stuff we want available to us. Their 800 number is listed on the back of your meter, so if you’re using an AccuChek Advantage, call ‘em! Rebekah — "Come to your life like a warrior nothing will bore yer you can be happy! Let in the light, it will heal you and you can feel you and sing out a Song of the Soul!" Cris Williamson
Response:
