Question:

Ron didn’t you work in Washington DC at some point in your life? If not, maybe I have you confused with someone else. Can I ask you a question about govt jobs/cost of living in DC? A friend of mine is talking about trying to get a federal job in Washington DC. The problem is though, I think he’s a little naive about how expensive it is to live there. He initially thought that he could work and live in Washington DC while making $30,000 a year!!! Is he crazy? I got some advice about this on aanother newsgroup. The consensus is that it would be pretty darn hard to live and work in DC while making such a small salary. Now, he’s talking about only going to live and work there if he can land a job making $40,000. I’m not sure that even this amount is workable. How much money in your opinion does someone need to be making to have a fairly comfortable living in DC? Can someone do allright on $30,000 or $40,000?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ron didn’t you work in Washington DC at some point in your life? If not, maybe I have you confused with someone else. Can I ask you a question about govt jobs/cost of living in DC? A friend of mine is talking about trying to get a federal job in Washington DC. The problem is though, I think he’s a little naive about how expensive it is to live there. He initially thought that he could work and live in Washington DC while making $30,000 a year!!! Is he crazy? I got some advice about this on aanother newsgroup. The consensus is that it would be pretty darn hard to live and work in DC while making such a small salary. Now, he’s talking about only going to live and work there if he can land a job making $40,000. I’m not sure that even this amount is workable. How much money in your opinion does someone need to be making to have a fairly comfortable living in DC? Can someone do allright on $30,000 or $40,000?

depends on your definition of allright but consider this –  a small house in the wayout burbs costs $250,000, apartments rent for $1,500 a month.  It would be difficult to live on that salary unless you shared housing!

Response:

Ron didn’t you work in Washington DC at some point in your life? If not, maybe I have you confused with someone else.

Nope, I’ve always lived in "fly over country." Tip can help you with the D.C. options, last I heard he was working downtown.

Response:

Ron didn’t you work in Washington DC at some point in your life? If not, maybe I have you confused with someone else. Nope, I’ve always lived in "fly over country." Tip can help you with the D.C. options, last I heard he was working downtown.

All right Ron, well thanks anyway. I guess I had you confused with someone else.

Response:

Sorry a little late to weigh in by I’m using cable internet and haven’t got a handle on the newsgroups yet. I wouldn’t move anywhere for $30K beginning salary.  If your friend is going to move, he/she should have a good idea that the job will work out for "him."  Nothing can be more miserable than working 8 hours a day at something or somewhere you don’t like. DC is high cost, nearly comparable to living in San Francisco or NYC.  Housing is out of sight and rising. The Feds do get a cola based on where you live.  The salary charts can be found at www.opm.gov.  Degreed accountants/auditors can expect to be hired at the GS-7 or 9 level plus Cost of Living Allowance (COLA).  The DC government also hires accountants/auditors and the levels vary even more and the salary of the grade is a little more complex– but the feds pay more. As for working in the DC area, it has a lot to offer historically, culturally, etc.  The metropolitan area is diverse in about every way– large populations from all over the world.  If you are young, you may want to live in DC itself, but it will be expensive.  If you have school age children, you will want to be in Fairfax County or perhaps a Maryland suburb.  However, Fairfax County had the highest family income in the Nation last year and is perhaps 3rd this year.  Housing is also out of sight in the suburbs– there are breaks, especially in DC, for first time buyers of homes.  The farther out from DC you move, the lower the cost of housing and the longer the commute. DC can be exciting for 20-30 single yo crowd. — Tippy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ron didn’t you work in Washington DC at some point in your life? If not, maybe I have you confused with someone else. Can I ask you a question about govt jobs/cost of living in DC? A friend of mine is talking about trying to get a federal job in Washington DC. The problem is though, I think he’s a little naive about how expensive it is to live there. He initially thought that he could work and live in Washington DC while making $30,000 a year!!! Is he crazy? I got some advice about this on aanother newsgroup. The consensus is that it would be pretty darn hard to live and work in DC while making such a small salary. Now, he’s talking about only going to live and work there if he can land a job making $40,000. I’m not sure that even this amount is workable. How much money in your opinion does someone need to be making to have a fairly comfortable living in DC? Can someone do allright on $30,000 or $40,000? depends on your definition of allright but consider this –  a small house in the wayout burbs costs $250,000, apartments rent for $1,500 a month.  It would be difficult to live on that salary unless you shared housing!

Response:

Question:

Has anyone used the Wiley’s CPA study guides (computer program or 4 vol. set of books) to prepare for the exam? how effective was it? is it a reasonable substitue to a review course like Becker or Kaplan? -JK

Response:

If you have pretty good understanding of what you learn when taking the accounting courses, I would say the CPA study aids are good enough for preparing for the exam.  If you have trouble understanding the accounting concept, taking some review courses may help you improve your grasp of the concepts or at least help you memorize them.  However, I would go back to the basic (e.g. reading an intermediate /advanced accounting textbook) and make sure you really understand. Arthur

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone used the Wiley’s CPA study guides (computer program or 4 vol. set of books) to prepare for the exam? how effective was it? is it a reasonable substitue to a review course like Becker or Kaplan? -JK

Response:

Don’t go back to reading an intermediate textbook,this is a waste. The int accounting book, audit book, business law book, etc covers the material in a much greater detail than you need to know.  The thing about the CPA exam is that it covers a huge breadth of information in some level of detail.  Problem is you need to now this "some level of detail" very well for all topics.     Use the study notes from Becker/Conviser.  More importantly, answer the multiple choice questions over and over and learn why a particular choice is the correct one and the others are not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have pretty good understanding of what you learn when taking the accounting courses, I would say the CPA study aids are good enough for preparing for the exam.  If you have trouble understanding the accounting concept, taking some review courses may help you improve your grasp of the concepts or at least help you memorize them.  However, I would go back to the basic (e.g. reading an intermediate /advanced accounting textbook) and make sure you really understand. Arthur Has anyone used the Wiley’s CPA study guides (computer program or 4 vol.  set of books) to prepare for the exam? how effective was it? is it a reasonable substitue to a review course like Becker or Kaplan? -JK

Response:

Don’t go back to reading an intermediate textbook,this is a waste. The int accounting book, audit book, business law book, etc covers the material in a much greater detail than you need to know.  The thing about the CPA exam is that it covers a huge breadth of information in some level of detail.  Problem is you need to now this "some level of detail" very well for all topics.     Use the study notes from Becker/Conviser.  More importantly, answer the multiple choice questions over and over and learn why a particular choice is the correct one and the others are not.

I am using the Gliem questions on the computer. Should I focus on the CPA questions, or include the Gliem specific ones that apparently are there to teach something? with respect, Roger R.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have pretty good understanding of what you learn when taking the accounting courses, I would say the CPA study aids are good enough for preparing for the exam.  If you have trouble understanding the accounting concept, taking some review courses may help you improve your grasp of the concepts or at least help you memorize them.  However, I would go back to the basic (e.g. reading an intermediate /advanced accounting textbook) and make sure you really understand. Arthur Has anyone used the Wiley’s CPA study guides (computer program or 4 vol.  set of books) to prepare for the exam? how effective was it? is it a reasonable substitue to a review course like Becker or Kaplan? -JK

Response:

Question:

I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

Shop around before you buy any hearing aid, but the good ones aren’t cheap. Check out some different audiologists, and get estimates.  Does she need two, or only one?  Cost is also affected by the type of aid you buy (behind-the-ear, in-the-canal, etc.) But then, what kind of price tag have you put on your Mothers hearing?  It may be expensive, but in the end, it’s worth it. ST. "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

Hearing aids are like anything else Al, you get what you pay for. "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

I don’t think so.  I think you get much less. I am a mechanical engineer who happened to take Electronics I from the electrical engineering  department when I was in school.  I had no interest in hearing aids at the time, but about 10 years ago for some reason I actually read an ad for a hearing aid in the local newspaper.  I was shocked at the price. Some months later I happened to be at the old alma mater and bumped into the Electronics I prof.  I said to him "I can’t see how an analog hearing aid could possible cost more than $25."  He said, "No, you’re wrong (again).  They shouldn’t cost more that $5." One can buy an entire notebook computer for less that $1000 which has many times the computing power of even the most powerful digital hearing aid plus a LCD Screen, Hard Drive, Large Battery, CD ROM, Floppy Drive and about $100 to Gate$ — all of which hearing aids, of course, don’t need. I think older people are really being taken by the hearing aid industry. I would really like to see a justification of the prices they charge. Go ahead. Make my day. "maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:CNEa9.16062$g9.50518@newsfeeds.bigpond.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hearing aids are like anything else Al, you get what you pay for. > "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… > > I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

"Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net>… > I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Try www.hearingplanet.com.  Such services will yield discounts of around 30% on national brand HAs from a local dispenser. Mike McC

Response:

> One can buy an entire notebook computer for less that $1000 which has many > times the computing power > of even the most powerful digital hearing aid plus a LCD Screen, Hard Drive, > Large Battery, CD ROM, > Floppy Drive and about $100 to Gate$ — all of which hearing aids, of > course, don’t need. > I think older people are really being taken by the hearing aid industry. > I would really like to see a justification of the prices they charge.

They say that it’s because hearing aids aren’t mass market.  There are more people in the world using computers, and much less that need hearing aids. The more you sell, the cheaper the price can be.  The lower your client base, the more expensive the product.  I don’t know if that’s right or not, but that is how it’s been explained to me. Unfortunately, I’m an addict.  But my addiction isn’t smoking or drugs,….. it’s HEARING.  I’m addicted to it.  So if I have to pay more for a decent set of aids that won’t break down every week, I’ll gladly do it!  I paid $2000 CAN for my aids 5 years ago, and they have only been in for repairs once!  Right now, I’m hoping the price of digitals will drop so I can upgrade my analogues. I look at it as an investment.  I’ve paid more in the past for my car, computer, etc. Do I think that the price should be lower?…… of course I do!  But right now, hearing aids are expensive.  So, ……I’ll pay whatever they want for a decent hearing aid. Am I being taken?….. maybe so, but I don’t really care.  When I can actually hear my kids call me Daddy,….. that’s ALL I care about! ST.

Response:

Thanks, but the prices are outrageous.  Price Range $607 – $1295 Something really has to be done about this.  Somebody is getting a 1000% mark-up. "Mike McC" <sprts…@conpoint.com> wrote in message

news:40d2438a.0208270714.674a3d9e@posting.google.com… > "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

<news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids? > Try www.hearingplanet.com.  Such services will yield discounts of > around 30% on national brand HAs from a local dispenser. > Mike McC

Response:

"Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:akgbv1$ehr$1@plonk.apk.net… > Thanks, but the prices are outrageous.  Price Range $607 – $1295 > Something really has to be done about this.

What do you suggest? Mark Twain said everybody talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it. Why don’t you do something about hearing aid prices? Michael

Response:

Of course these are all concerns raised and debated many times but if you could make a good hearing aid yourself for $5 worth of materials, you would be doing it just as I would. In the case of your mother, I would suggest contacting a elder care home or nursing home nearby and ask who does the hearing aid services for their patients.  Sometimes dispensers have returned BTEs that they can sell for a lower price because they are "used" and the manufacturer can’t or won’t take it back for whatever reason.  Many of these aids have only been used for a few months and will be available for a lower price, but you are still going to get what you consider a huge "mark up" in terms of cost of the parts vs the cost of the aid. When you compare the aid to a computer, I remember reading a thread on the board where someone pointed out that you can’t wear a notebook computer to hear better.  There’s no point in cursing the darkness when your goal is to help your mother anyway. Terri On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:49:44 -0400, "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t think so.  I think you get much less. >I am a mechanical engineer who happened to take Electronics I from the >electrical engineering  department >when I was in school.  I had no interest in hearing aids at the time, but >about 10 years ago for some >reason I actually read an ad for a hearing aid in the local newspaper.  I >was shocked at the price. >Some months later I happened to be at the old alma mater and bumped into the >Electronics I prof.  I said to >him "I can’t see how an analog hearing aid could possible cost more than >$25."  He said, "No, you’re >wrong (again).  They shouldn’t cost more that $5." >One can buy an entire notebook computer for less that $1000 which has many >times the computing power >of even the most powerful digital hearing aid plus a LCD Screen, Hard Drive, >Large Battery, CD ROM, >Floppy Drive and about $100 to Gate$ — all of which hearing aids, of >course, don’t need. >I think older people are really being taken by the hearing aid industry. >I would really like to see a justification of the prices they charge. >Go ahead. Make my day. >"maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message >news:CNEa9.16062$g9.50518@newsfeeds.bigpond.com… >> Hearing aids are like anything else Al, you get what you pay for. >> "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… >> > I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. >> > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. >> > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

Unfortunately, I have a bunch of irons in the fire.  If I found a couple of guys to help, I would. "occam" <oc…@fish.net> wrote in message

news:nESa9.19321$Or1.1094639@news2.east.cox.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:akgbv1$ehr$1@plonk.apk.net… > > Thanks, but the prices are outrageous.  Price Range $607 – $1295 > > Something really has to be done about this. > What do you suggest? Mark Twain said everybody talks about the weather but > nobody does anything about it. > Why don’t you do something about hearing aid prices? > Michael

Response:

<terri231> wrote in message news:3d6bfecd.2387888@news.starnetinc.com… > Of course these are all concerns raised and debated many times but if > you could make a good hearing aid yourself for $5 worth of materials,

That was 10 – 15 years ago.  It would probably be $15 now. > you would be doing it just as I would.

I don’t have the time and I don’t have the contacts in the Far East. > In the case of your mother, I would suggest contacting a elder care > home or nursing home nearby and ask who does the hearing aid services > for their patients.  Sometimes dispensers have returned BTEs that they > can sell for a lower price because they are "used" and the > manufacturer can’t or won’t take it back for whatever reason.  Many of > these aids have only been used for a few months and will be available > for a lower price, but you are still going to get what you consider a > huge "mark up" in terms of cost of the parts vs the cost of the aid.

I think that is correct — a huge mark-up. I think it is dispicable. Here is another example of the mega-rip-off that hearing aids are. http://www.songbirdhearing.com/consumer/solution.asp At the above site they have a rip-off that is only a minor rip-off. They have a modern hearing aid with digital circuitry that is selling at $80 — only 2 to 3 times a reasonable price instead of the more tyipical 50 times. Great, right?  Well, there is a rip-off catch to this one, too.  The battery lasts for 70 days, the you THROW THE WHOLE THING AWAY. This establishes that an modern digital hearing aid can be manufactured and sold for less than the rip-off prices of many hundreds to thousands of dollars. People that prey on the elderly ought to go to jail as, finally, some of the nation’s CEOs will. > When you compare the aid to a computer, I remember reading a thread on > the board where someone pointed out that you can’t wear a notebook > computer to hear better.  There’s no point in cursing the darkness > when your goal is to help your mother anyway.

That was an analogy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Terri > On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:49:44 -0400, "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> > wrote: > >I don’t think so.  I think you get much less. > >I am a mechanical engineer who happened to take Electronics I from the > >electrical engineering  department > >when I was in school.  I had no interest in hearing aids at the time, but > >about 10 years ago for some > >reason I actually read an ad for a hearing aid in the local newspaper.  I > >was shocked at the price. > >Some months later I happened to be at the old alma mater and bumped into the > >Electronics I prof.  I said to > >him "I can’t see how an analog hearing aid could possible cost more than > >$25."  He said, "No, you’re > >wrong (again).  They shouldn’t cost more that $5." > >One can buy an entire notebook computer for less that $1000 which has many > >times the computing power > >of even the most powerful digital hearing aid plus a LCD Screen, Hard Drive, > >Large Battery, CD ROM, > >Floppy Drive and about $100 to Gate$ — all of which hearing aids, of > >course, don’t need. > >I think older people are really being taken by the hearing aid industry. > >I would really like to see a justification of the prices they charge. > >Go ahead. Make my day. > >"maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message > >news:CNEa9.16062$g9.50518@newsfeeds.bigpond.com… > >> Hearing aids are like anything else Al, you get what you pay for. > >> "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > >> news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… > >> > I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > >> > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > >> > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

As viewed from this (technically-oriented) consumer’s perspective, hearing aid prices are not unreasonable: There’s rapid technological evolution in the industry, and the cost of each stage of development must be amortized across the product life of that specific design. Engineering costs are among the highest cost factors in determining an aid-maker’s expenses. Actual production cost of a good digital aid is under $100. Add to that all burdens and overheads, including professional (legal, accounting) fees, marketing and market communication, packaging, etc. Also factor in the return percentage, which is probably 25%, and warranty repair costs. The unit is then sold to the audiologist for $1,100 – and to the consumer that keeps it for about $3,000. To dispense that aid, the audiologist must advertise, speak to about two potential clients for each audiological workup, perform the workups, and sell to about half of those who get that far. Earmolds are in there somewhere, too… All those costs must be absorbed by the successful transactions. My audiologist gave me some of the numbers and insights. Her practice is successful, with a lower-than-average return rate and a higher-than-average sales rate, and she operates at an overall GROSS MARGIN of about 50%. That is, her cost of a $3,000 sale is about $1,500, after which she must pay all office labor, advertising, rent, utilities, liability insurance, other overheads, depreciation of $250k in test equipment, etc. And, she must include after-sale service, such as tweaking visits, repairs, etc. As I saw it, her NET PROFIT BEFORE TAX averages about $500 on a $3,000 transaction, or a bit under 17%. Figuring 260 days and one new sale per day, that’s $130k annual profit – which flows directly to her because she’s a Sub-S corporation so it’s taxed only once. Does $130k sound like a lot to you? She has a master’s in audiology plus 20 years of experience. I understand that she worked for a salary for another audiologist her first five years, starved for the next five years, and only in the last decade has she enjoyed "success." Her competitor down the street is a non-audiologist dispenser, with a high school diploma and a sign that says DISCOUNT HEARING AIDS. He also wears a white coat, and undercuts her price by 10%. Back to the issue: What’s it worth to you and your mother for her to HEAR!?!?! END OF RANT <<<<jmarsince2.at.yahoo>>>>

Response:

Of course. That’s why they cost what they do. Nobody can actually make any money at it with a low price, so they don’t try. If hearing aid prices dropped by 50%, there would be no one to fit them. Then you’d be crying about the time you have to spend sitting in the lobby while the goverment dispenser goes out to have her nails done, after you waited for an appointment for months. Most people get what they pay for. Michael "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:akh7ut$sap$1@plonk.apk.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Unfortunately, I have a bunch of irons in the fire.  If I found a couple of > guys to help, I would. > "occam" <oc…@fish.net> wrote in message > news:nESa9.19321$Or1.1094639@news2.east.cox.net… > > "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:akgbv1$ehr$1@plonk.apk.net… > > > Thanks, but the prices are outrageous.  Price Range $607 – $1295 > > > Something really has to be done about this. > > What do you suggest? Mark Twain said everybody talks about the weather but > > nobody does anything about it. > > Why don’t you do something about hearing aid prices? > > Michael

Response:

In the U.S., there are factors that do not apply in some other areas. For example, Russia may be treated as an "incremental market." That is, the cost of corporate management, product development, engineering, product liability insurance, facility overheads, etc. etc. may not be allocated to products shipped to a distributor there. That distributor may not permit returns. And, once you factor in lower Russian labor costs, the end-user price drops precipitously. The trick is to figure out a way to take advantage of that pricing structure. Surely the Russian distributor’s contract prohibits shipping outside that country. And, once you have such aids in your hands, how do you program them? Get an earmold? Get service? I’ll (painfully) pay the price for the red/white/blue edition.

Response:

Steve B. wrote: > I said: > > I’m a MA user… > That should have read "HA user…

Thanks for clearing that up. I just got my first hearing aid a week ago(an auroa950) .I was wondering what a MA was. > Steve  = : ^ ) > — > Not my real email address of course but true all the same. Reply to > the newsgroup, please.

– Quote of the month It’s not paranoia. It’s fear and you should be afraid, because some very bad people are out to get us. One of Sarges’ rules for a better life.

Response:

I have had success with a Russian company www.melfon.com I got a pair of Oticon Ergo aids, programmed, for US$554 total. Considering I was quoted US$800+  *each* here in Australia, I got them at about 1/3 the price of locally. Cheers A "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

I said: > I’m a MA user…

That should have read "HA user… Steve  = : ^ ) — Not my real email address of course but true all the same. Reply to the newsgroup, please.

Response:

Al Smith said: > Some months later I happened to be at the old alma mater and bumped into the > Electronics I prof.  I said to > him "I can’t see how an analog hearing aid could possible cost more than > $25."  He said, "No, you’re > wrong (again).  They shouldn’t cost more that $5." > One can buy an entire notebook computer for less that $1000 which has many > times the computing power > of even the most powerful digital hearing aid plus a LCD Screen, Hard Drive, > Large Battery, CD ROM, > Floppy Drive and about $100 to Gate$ — all of which hearing aids, of > course, don’t need.

Would it cost more to make a PC if it had to fit in your ear? Would the components be more expensive? The construction more difficult? I’m a MA user and was amazed at what my Siemens Prisma CIC aids could do in such an incredibly small package. Steve  = : ^ ) — Not my real email address of course but true all the same. Reply to the newsgroup, please.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Zaf wrote: >Of even cheaper, the ~$50 or so contraption sold at radio shack, it >even comes with a 5 (?) band equalizer!!! >If you had a bad heart valve would you be shopping for the lowest >price on this too? >OOR…@USMC.net wrote in message <news:3D6C4560.B3571408@san.rr.com>… >>You think $607-1295 is "outrageous?" Those numbers are at the bottom of the >>scale, and describe analog solutions. >>Okay… here’s a low$$ solution: buy the Songbird. Then buy it again. And >>again. >>Or, enroll your mother in a speechreading course. >>. >><<<<jmarsince2.at.yahoo>>>>

Of course, there are disposable hearing aids on the market. Songbird makes them. They are cheap, one or at least a couple of sizes to fit all, but they work, just not as well. You can buy them in the pharmacy at Sam’s clubs in some Texas stores. They are the future. Are they good? You decide, but they are cheap, at first. But after they wear out after a month or two, you must buy another and so on. I do think heraring aids are priced way too high. I would rather pay an audiologist for their professional fitting time and then pay a realistic fee for the hearing aid. That way you can monitor the cost better. Less markup can be hidden. Will it happen any time soon. Maybe when the baby boomers accept that they need  hearing aids and start to pressure to bring the cost down where most folks can afford themt. I think the technology will get better too. The feedback issue is still out there big time. Anyway, some thoughts.

Response:

And this response explains everything. — Howard N. Gutnick, Ph.D. Atlantic Coast Ear Specialists, P.C. doct…@earaces.com www.earaces.com <tlsh…@concentric.net> wrote in message

news:cu2qmuk9doui3vq2j8hipdgvbcr4cqp239@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:13:57 GMT, OOR…@USMC.net took a very strange > color crayon and scribbled: > >Does $130k sound like a lot to you? She has a master’s in audiology plus 20 > >years of experience. I understand that she worked for a salary for another > >audiologist her first five years, starved for the next five years, and only in > >the last decade has she enjoyed "success." > Yeah, $130K sounds like a lot to me. It’s more than 6 times what I’ve > ever made, and I don’t care how much education she has, no one should > make that much, that’s why we have such a huge divide between a few > rich people and everybody else. But then, I’m a socialist at heart. > — > Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi > tlsh…@concentric.net / http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell

Response:

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 02:13:57 GMT, OOR…@USMC.net took a very strange color crayon and scribbled: >Does $130k sound like a lot to you? She has a master’s in audiology plus 20 >years of experience. I understand that she worked for a salary for another >audiologist her first five years, starved for the next five years, and only in >the last decade has she enjoyed "success."

Yeah, $130K sounds like a lot to me. It’s more than 6 times what I’ve ever made, and I don’t care how much education she has, no one should make that much, that’s why we have such a huge divide between a few rich people and everybody else. But then, I’m a socialist at heart. — Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter – Civis Mundi tlsh…@concentric.net     / http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell

Response:

Mr. Smith, Ok, you’ve been able to buy the components of the hearing aid for about $25. Now would you please be so kind as to outline the additional costs you would expect to incur to go from a circuit board design to a real product that your mother could and would wear. I’d appreciate it if you could be as detailed as possible in this mental exercise. Thanks — Howard N. Gutnick, Ph.D. Atlantic Coast Ear Specialists, P.C. doct…@earaces.com www.earaces.com "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:akg3iu$ab2$1@plonk.apk.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t think so.  I think you get much less. > I am a mechanical engineer who happened to take Electronics I from the > electrical engineering  department > when I was in school.  I had no interest in hearing aids at the time, but > about 10 years ago for some > reason I actually read an ad for a hearing aid in the local newspaper.  I > was shocked at the price. > Some months later I happened to be at the old alma mater and bumped into the > Electronics I prof.  I said to > him "I can’t see how an analog hearing aid could possible cost more than > $25."  He said, "No, you’re > wrong (again).  They shouldn’t cost more that $5." > One can buy an entire notebook computer for less that $1000 which has many > times the computing power > of even the most powerful digital hearing aid plus a LCD Screen, Hard Drive, > Large Battery, CD ROM, > Floppy Drive and about $100 to Gate$ — all of which hearing aids, of > course, don’t need. > I think older people are really being taken by the hearing aid industry. > I would really like to see a justification of the prices they charge. > Go ahead. Make my day. > "maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message > news:CNEa9.16062$g9.50518@newsfeeds.bigpond.com… > > Hearing aids are like anything else Al, you get what you pay for. > > "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… > > > I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. > > > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. > > > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

Of even cheaper, the ~$50 or so contraption sold at radio shack, it even comes with a 5 (?) band equalizer!!! If you had a bad heart valve would you be shopping for the lowest price on this too? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OOR…@USMC.net wrote in message <news:3D6C4560.B3571408@san.rr.com>… > You think $607-1295 is "outrageous?" Those numbers are at the bottom of the > scale, and describe analog solutions. > Okay… here’s a low$$ solution: buy the Songbird. Then buy it again. And > again. > Or, enroll your mother in a speechreading course. > . > <<<<jmarsince2.at.yahoo>>>>

Response:

You think $607-1295 is "outrageous?" Those numbers are at the bottom of the scale, and describe analog solutions. Okay… here’s a low$$ solution: buy the Songbird. Then buy it again. And again. Or, enroll your mother in a speechreading course. . <<<<jmarsince2.at.yahoo>>>>

Response:

I wish you luck in find a suitable solution for your mother. Terri On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:29:15 -0400, "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -><terri231> wrote in message news:3d6bfecd.2387888@news.starnetinc.com… >> Of course these are all concerns raised and debated many times but if >> you could make a good hearing aid yourself for $5 worth of materials, >That was 10 – 15 years ago.  It would probably be $15 now. >> you would be doing it just as I would. >I don’t have the time and I don’t have the contacts in the Far East. >> In the case of your mother, I would suggest contacting a elder care >> home or nursing home nearby and ask who does the hearing aid services >> for their patients.  Sometimes dispensers have returned BTEs that they >> can sell for a lower price because they are "used" and the >> manufacturer can’t or won’t take it back for whatever reason.  Many of >> these aids have only been used for a few months and will be available >> for a lower price, but you are still going to get what you consider a >> huge "mark up" in terms of cost of the parts vs the cost of the aid. >I think that is correct — a huge mark-up. >I think it is dispicable. >Here is another example of the mega-rip-off that hearing aids are. >http://www.songbirdhearing.com/consumer/solution.asp >At the above site they have a rip-off that is only a minor rip-off. >They have a modern hearing aid with digital circuitry that is >selling at $80 — only 2 to 3 times a reasonable price >instead of the more tyipical 50 times. >Great, right?  Well, there is a rip-off catch to this one, too.  The battery >lasts >for 70 days, the you THROW THE WHOLE THING AWAY. >This establishes that an modern digital hearing aid can be manufactured >and sold for less than the rip-off prices of many hundreds to thousands of >dollars. >People that prey on the elderly ought to go to jail as, finally, some of >the nation’s CEOs will. >> When you compare the aid to a computer, I remember reading a thread on >> the board where someone pointed out that you can’t wear a notebook >> computer to hear better.  There’s no point in cursing the darkness >> when your goal is to help your mother anyway. >That was an analogy. >> Terri >> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:49:44 -0400, "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >I don’t think so.  I think you get much less. >> >I am a mechanical engineer who happened to take Electronics I from the >> >electrical engineering  department >> >when I was in school.  I had no interest in hearing aids at the time, but >> >about 10 years ago for some >> >reason I actually read an ad for a hearing aid in the local newspaper.  I >> >was shocked at the price. >> >Some months later I happened to be at the old alma mater and bumped into >the >> >Electronics I prof.  I said to >> >him "I can’t see how an analog hearing aid could possible cost more than >> >$25."  He said, "No, you’re >> >wrong (again).  They shouldn’t cost more that $5." >> >One can buy an entire notebook computer for less that $1000 which has >many >> >times the computing power >> >of even the most powerful digital hearing aid plus a LCD Screen, Hard >Drive, >> >Large Battery, CD ROM, >> >Floppy Drive and about $100 to Gate$ — all of which hearing aids, of >> >course, don’t need. >> >I think older people are really being taken by the hearing aid industry. >> >I would really like to see a justification of the prices they charge. >> >Go ahead. Make my day. >> >"maree" <mare…@bigpond.com> wrote in message >> >news:CNEa9.16062$g9.50518@newsfeeds.bigpond.com… >> >> Hearing aids are like anything else Al, you get what you pay for. >> >> "Al Smith" <ecare…@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> >> news:akdmqf$h7$1@plonk.apk.net… >> >> > I am looking to find a hearing aid for my mother. >> >> > I am appalled at the cost of hearing aids. >> >> > Where can I find reasonably priced (aka cheap) hearing aids?

Response:

Question:

Have had first hand experience with this Wife 2.0 upgrade – caused far to many problems to the system ,was left with no option but to totally uninstall and revert back to girlfriend 5.0(1).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wife  1.0  Dear Help Desk,  Last year I upgraded from Girlfriend 5.0 to Wife 1.0 and noticed  that the new program began making unexpected changes to the accounting  modules, limiting access to the cooking and cleaning applications that had  operated flawlessly under Girlfriend 5.0.   In addition, Wife 1.0 uninstalled many other valuable programs,   such as Romance 9.9 but installed undesirable programs such as shopping 5.0 and   nagging 3.0.   Conversation 8.0 no longer runs and House Cleaning 2.6 simply crashes   the entire system.   I’ve tried running Compliments 5.3 to fix these problems, but to no avail.   Please help!   –Desperate   Dear Desperate,   Please keep in mind that Girlfriend 5.0 is an entertainment package,   while Wife 1.0 is an operating system.   Try to enter the command: C:/I-THOUGHT-YOU-LOVED-ME and then install   Flowers 6.2. and Wife 1.0 should then automatically run the applications:   Cooking 3.0 and Cleaning 2.6. But remember, overuse can cause Wife 1.0   to default to Cut-You-Off 2.5, Nagging 7.0 or the deadly virus, PMS 6.1.   PMS 6.1 is a virus that will create "Screeching" WAV sound files, followed by "Tears"   WAV sound files.   WARNING, DO NOT install Mother-In-Law 1.0 to the operating system, and under NO   circumstances should you reinstall another Girlfriend program as these are not supported   applications and will crash Wife 1.0 and cause Lawyer 9.0 to Self-install causing all kinds of   connectivity problems!   In summary, Wife 1.0 is a great program, but it does have limited   memory and cannot learn new applications quickly. Consider buying   additional software to improve performance.   I personally recommend Perfume 3.0 and Lingerie 5.3, unless the WOS (wife operating system) you are running happens to be BlondeWife Ver. 1.1, in that case, nothing mentioned here applies at all, and you should return your operating system immediately!   –Help Desk Yeah – but does Wife 1.0 leave the registry settings after uninstallation ? In which case Wife 2.0 ( or other ) may prove to be a problematic upgrade. G.

Response:

Wife  1.0  Dear Help Desk,  Last year I upgraded from Girlfriend 5.0 to Wife 1.0 and noticed  that the new program began making unexpected changes to the accounting  modules, limiting access to the cooking and cleaning applications that had  operated flawlessly under Girlfriend 5.0.   In addition, Wife 1.0 uninstalled many other valuable programs,   such as Romance 9.9 but installed undesirable programs such as shopping 5.0 and   nagging 3.0.   Conversation 8.0 no longer runs and House Cleaning 2.6 simply crashes   the entire system.   I’ve tried running Compliments 5.3 to fix these problems, but to no avail.   Please help!   –Desperate   Dear Desperate,   Please keep in mind that Girlfriend 5.0 is an entertainment package,   while Wife 1.0 is an operating system.   Try to enter the command: C:/I-THOUGHT-YOU-LOVED-ME and then install   Flowers 6.2. and Wife 1.0 should then automatically run the applications:   Cooking 3.0 and Cleaning 2.6. But remember, overuse can cause Wife 1.0   to default to Cut-You-Off 2.5, Nagging 7.0 or the deadly virus, PMS 6.1.   PMS 6.1 is a virus that will create "Screeching" WAV sound files, followed by "Tears"   WAV sound files.   WARNING, DO NOT install Mother-In-Law 1.0 to the operating system, and under NO   circumstances should you reinstall another Girlfriend program as these are not supported   applications and will crash Wife 1.0 and cause Lawyer 9.0 to Self-install causing all kinds of   connectivity problems!   In summary, Wife 1.0 is a great program, but it does have limited   memory and cannot learn new applications quickly. Consider buying   additional software to improve performance.   I personally recommend Perfume 3.0 and Lingerie 5.3, unless the WOS (wife operating system) you are running happens to be BlondeWife Ver. 1.1, in that case, nothing mentioned here applies at all, and you should return your operating system immediately!   –Help Desk

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wife  1.0  Dear Help Desk,  Last year I upgraded from Girlfriend 5.0 to Wife 1.0 and noticed  that the new program began making unexpected changes to the accounting  modules, limiting access to the cooking and cleaning applications that had  operated flawlessly under Girlfriend 5.0.   In addition, Wife 1.0 uninstalled many other valuable programs,   such as Romance 9.9 but installed undesirable programs such as shopping 5.0 and   nagging 3.0.   Conversation 8.0 no longer runs and House Cleaning 2.6 simply crashes   the entire system.   I’ve tried running Compliments 5.3 to fix these problems, but to no avail.   Please help!   –Desperate   Dear Desperate,   Please keep in mind that Girlfriend 5.0 is an entertainment package,   while Wife 1.0 is an operating system.   Try to enter the command: C:/I-THOUGHT-YOU-LOVED-ME and then install   Flowers 6.2. and Wife 1.0 should then automatically run the applications:   Cooking 3.0 and Cleaning 2.6. But remember, overuse can cause Wife 1.0   to default to Cut-You-Off 2.5, Nagging 7.0 or the deadly virus, PMS 6.1.   PMS 6.1 is a virus that will create "Screeching" WAV sound files, followed by "Tears"   WAV sound files.   WARNING, DO NOT install Mother-In-Law 1.0 to the operating system, and under NO   circumstances should you reinstall another Girlfriend program as these are not supported   applications and will crash Wife 1.0 and cause Lawyer 9.0 to Self-install causing all kinds of   connectivity problems!   In summary, Wife 1.0 is a great program, but it does have limited   memory and cannot learn new applications quickly. Consider buying   additional software to improve performance.   I personally recommend Perfume 3.0 and Lingerie 5.3, unless the WOS (wife operating system) you are running happens to be BlondeWife Ver. 1.1, in that case, nothing mentioned here applies at all, and you should return your operating system immediately!   –Help Desk

Yeah – but does Wife 1.0 leave the registry settings after uninstallation ? In which case Wife 2.0 ( or other ) may prove to be a problematic upgrade. G.

Response:

Question:

I knew QB for the Web was not as complete as NetLedger in many ways. It never occurred to me they would sell something that was NOT compatible with QuickBooks 6 – 2000 (or later?). However, see http://www.netledger.com/nlpr12-04-00.html Intuit also announced QuickBooks for the Web http://news.excite.com/news/bw/001204/ca-intuit-2 moderator (mike block) note: On the other hand, I am disappointed with QB for the Web. It lacks 16 major QB2001 features( including payroll and inventory) and has less than a third of the reports. That means I am still a NetLedger enthusiast.

  Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester FREE NetLedger consult refer #10260   FREE 462p QB book/error codes/ 80 QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

Response:

I’m encouraged that they are starting small on the web, no doubt intending to grow it.  I would rather they do this than jump out there with a whole suite pretty much untested. How about that 2001, hey??  Is it sweet or what!  and the movable columns, moderator (mike block) note: I delayed some QB2001 posts because the product is still in beta, when everything is supposed to be confidential. However, Intuit announced many details at http://www.intuit.com/corporate/press_releases/120400a.html This release also says it will not be available until the end of December, as usual. They even have a demo and extensive comparison http://www.shopintuit.com/QB2001/QBCom/qb.asp?Sourcecode=WHMN1C484CZZ… Then click on Learn More. I cannot talk about all that was added. However, in my opinion, the demo leaves out lots of significant improvements.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Saw this on Excite http://news.excite.com/news/bw/001204/ca-intuit Intuit also announced QuickBooks for the Web http://news.excite.com/news/bw/001204/ca-intuit-2 moderator (mike block) note: I guess this means I can now talk about the great QB2001 program. It is a massive improvement, with many features I never expected to see (10 price levels, groups of reports that run with one click, returning you to the same place in a report after you drill down, far better user configurable menus that show why I so disliked QB2000, etc.). On the other hand, I am disappointed with QB for the Web. It lacks 16 major QB2001 features( including payroll and inventory) and has less than a third of the reports. That means I am still a NetLedger enthusiast. http://blocktax.com/

Response:

Saw this on Excite http://news.excite.com/news/bw/001204/ca-intuit Intuit also announced QuickBooks for the Web http://news.excite.com/news/bw/001204/ca-intuit-2

moderator (mike block) note: I guess this means I can now talk about the great QB2001 program. It is a massive improvement, with many features I never expected to see (10 price levels, groups of reports that run with one click, returning you to the same place in a report after you drill down, far better user configurable menus that show why I so disliked QB2000, etc.). On the other hand, I am disappointed with QB for the Web. It lacks 16 major QB2001 features( including payroll and inventory) and has less than a third of the reports. That means I am still a NetLedger enthusiast. http://blocktax.com/

Response:

I’m encouraged that they are starting small on the web, no doubt intending to grow it.  I would rather they do this than jump out there with a whole suite pretty much untested. moderator note: <snip on comment on QB2001 – not yet released after all

Saw this on Excite http://news.excite.com/news/bw/001204/ca-intuit Intuit also announced QuickBooks for the Web http://news.excite.com/news/bw/001204/ca-intuit-2 moderator (mike block) note:

snip on QB2001 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the other hand, I am disappointed with QB for the Web. It lacks 16 major QB2001 features( including payroll and inventory) and has less than a third of the reports. That means I am still a NetLedger enthusiast. http://blocktax.com/

Response:

Question:

How much does one prospect cost for an accounting practice?

I don’t know how much it costs to get a prospect, but I can tell you how much a client is worth.  While two different things, they are related in how much marketing one is willing to do to gain a new client.  In most markets the purchase price of a practice is 1 to 1.5 times annual billings.  Or in a recently closed deal at my office, 1 times the annual revenues collected from clients that use my services was the purchase price (I was willing to go to 1.5 times, but don’t tell him now).  So a client that pays me $500 a year is worth $500. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia

Response:

What is the general, average cost of a prospective accounting client? Well, there is no figure that I am aware of that you could give as such due to the very unorganized and unmonitored way accounting services are marketed presently. For average industries the cost is around $50 to $250 per prospect, depending on the size of their target group, nature or the item of sale, and efficiency of their advertising and marketing tactics.

Let me tell you a subtle pitfall to avoid in your analysis.  All prospects are not alike.  In fact, they are incredibly diverse, almost different categories.  Apples and Oranges. You wouldn’t say, "how much is the average cost of a grocery item in a supermarket?" So what, if the cost of acquisition of various clients is different? They are all different.  Some are worth gold, some are worth less than nothing. The tool you want to use, in growing your consulting practice has nothing to do with these kinds of dollar averages.  Instead, you should focus on the raw facts:  "what characteristics are you looking for in you client?" … and client relationships?  This is partly a function of your own goals in life and who you want to be, as a person. The other sets of raw facts are "what will it take to get them to hire me?"   Take a few minutes, in a quiet room with these questions, and forget about the dollar stuff. TOdd

Response:

How much does one prospect cost for an accounting practice? Few people come to think about the fact that each prospect you receive has a price tag. As an Accounting Professional you naturally are aware of cost structures as such. Following the actual cost of prospects is worthwhile because it allows you to monitor and eventually control the cost efficiency of your marketing. What is the general, average cost of a prospective accounting client? Well, there is no figure that I am aware of that you could give as such due to the very unorganized and unmonitored way accounting services are marketed presently. For average industries the cost is around $50 to $250 per prospect, depending on the size of their target group, nature or the item of sale, and efficiency of their advertising and marketing tactics. You can spend thousands of dollars and not get a single prospect. And you can get prospects without ANY cost. Neither of these extremes will work for any longer period of time; it

Question:

Hello; i need help in accounting as i am not aure about anything on accounts. i am grateful if there is someone help me out in accounting.

Response:

Hi there Taggy, I’m not sure what kind of help you’re looking for but you’d probably get more responses if you ask a more specific question. -Asmodeus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello; i need help in accounting as i am not aure about anything on accounts. i am grateful if there is someone help me out in accounting.

Response:

Hi Taggy LESSON #1 DEBITS ON THE LEFT CREDITS ON THE RIGHT

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello; i need help in accounting as i am not aure about anything on accounts. i am grateful if there is someone help me out in accounting.

Response:

Check out http://www.netpartners-marketing.com/FSOffer/ifsin tr.html to register/win free share(s) of stock in Internet company.  This company plans to be a force in the small growth company investment area. Remember when Yahoo first got going you could have gotten free shares worth a lot today.  Who know? This is a free shot and you have nothing to lose. Jack Newhouse

Response:

Check out http://www.netpartners-marketing.com/FSOffer/ifsin tr.html to register/win free share(s) of stock in Internet company.  This company plans to be a force in the small growth company investment area. Remember when Yahoo first got going you could have gotten free shares worth a lot today.  Who know? This is a free shot and you have nothing to lose. Jack Newhouse

want to get in n free stock givaway

Response:

Hi Taggy, Lesson #2 Assets = Liabilities + Owner’s Equity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello; i need help in accounting as i am not aure about anything on accounts. i am grateful if there is someone help me out in accounting.

Response:

Question:

perhaps it is just not the teachings you seek strange and varied are the gifts of the goddess Who says reality is physical? To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube. Put the cube on a mirror, supposed reality can be changed if you just think about it. –And if a single point is used to place the cube on the mirror, rather than a plane, it is possible to attain a position whereby you can peruse all planes of the cube, either in plain sight or via reflection. If you are allowed to spin the cube you do not even need the mirror. Give me that mirror and cube. This is not the teachings you impostures!

Life is a celebration! Join in the dance  :-} wampus

Response:

Give me that mirror and cube. This is not the teachings you impostures! —   INTERDUM DRACO VINCIT

Response:

Awhile ago I posted something called reality which was about how we see our world.  One of the statements made was the we can never see any more the 1/2 of this reality because of it’s physical limitations.  To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube.  While we can change our point of view and by Adding the first seen aspect of the cube to what we see form a different point of view we can make the assumption of what the whole cube would like like if we could see the whole thing. The irony is that even within our own mind we can not create an image that is greater the the three sides of the cube we can see at any given time. Our reality as well as our thoughts are bound by the limitations of this 3D reality.  This becomes more complicated when one of the dimensions we see or don’t see is incorrectly interpreted. Since the reality we live in has more then just the 3D that we can see we have come to rely on what we believe to be true more then what we know to be true. A case in point can be easily understood if we look at the very pillars that support our reality. Science and society are the foundations of what we believe.  We are told from birth to death that what these two things, science and society are the keeps of knowledge and truth yet they have no  greater ability to see this reality then we do.  They often have a view point that is less objective then we have but we tend to subjugate what we see and believe to the will of what they want us to believe.  Science has made many errors as has society but they remain steadfast in their belief that they are the infallible source that we should accept.  One issue that is going to erupted soon that will demonstrate just how lacking these two are involves science. For a long time we have been taught that the speed of light is a constant that is the standard for measurement in much of science.  Now as we expand our understanding of the cosmos we find that this many not be as constant as we thought.  Consider the statement of science that light can not escape a black hole.  If this is the case then light does not travel at a constant speed.  If light can and is effected by gravity then it is effected by all of gravity not just the extremes of the gravity within a black hole.  The theory that time and space are flexible and that as the fabric of time and space are stretched and distorted by gravity and thus causing light to travel further and in so doing accounting for the small variations in time still can not justify the actions of light in are around a black hole.  It would seem obvious that the physical laws we have chosen to accept concerning light may not always be true.  If that is the case then the whole of what we know will once again have to be examined to determine how much of what we accept as true will need to be revamped to accommodate the actions of light around a black hole. With in society the same process is always being applied.  For example here in the United States we assumed that the success of easter style management techniques is what  cause the demise and fall of our control of major markets.  We went so far as to attempted to incorporate the management styles of the easter world like Japan into our industries. Now we see that while that style generated success that it also was no sustainable.  The control by the eastern style managed companies is now is disarray and  Japanese economy is at the brink of disaster. Society defined success and it defined the management style it felt could achieve success but as usual society saw only a small part of what the true reality was.  Both society and science continue to make judgment errors and we have to adjust.  We as individuals make the same kind of errors and chose to ignore them until they create a crisis we can no longer ignore.  We allow our lives to fall in to a deep pit before we are willing to stop and re-evaluated what we are and what we believe. How much of what you are and what you believe is valid based on the reality you see? Got no clue?  Then you are not in control of your life or the path you are walking. — Please take a moment to visit the web pages devoted to earth friendly beliefs and some of the things written by A. Nonperson. Visit http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6891/anon/anon.htm

Response:

To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube. Put the cube on a mirror, supposed reality can be changed if you just think about it. —

And if a single point is used to plce the cube on the mirror, rather than a plane, it is possible to attain a position whereby you can peruse all planes of the cube, either in plain sight or via reflection. If you are allowed to spin the cube you do not even need the mirror. Terry

Response:

To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube.

Put the cube on a mirror, supposed reality can be changed if you just think about it. — NOTICE:  This e-mail address is being spoofed on USENET.  Obvious trolls and needlessly incendiary remarks should be ignored.  All authentic messages from this address will bear this disclaimer, although spoofed messages may as well. The ‘Old Craft’ lady               http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/

Response:

Awhile ago I posted something called reality which was about how we see our world.  One of the statements made was the we can never see any more the 1/2 of this reality because of it’s physical limitations.

Who says reality is physical? To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube.  While we can change our point of view and by Adding the first seen aspect of the cube to what we see form a different point of view we can make the assumption of what the whole cube would like like if we could see the whole thing. The irony is that even within our own mind we can not create an image that is greater the the three sides of the cube we can see at any given time. Our reality as well as our thoughts are bound by the limitations of this 3D reality.  This becomes more complicated when one of the dimensions we see or don’t see is incorrectly interpreted. Since the reality we live in has more then just the 3D that we can see we have come to rely on what we believe to be true more then what we know to be true.

Firstly, even so-called scientific physical reality has four dimensions and possibly more if we include superstring theory. But these are just concepts and scientific models, not reality. A case in point can be easily understood if we look at the very pillars that support our reality. Science and society are the foundations of what we believe.  

They aren’t the foundations of what I and many others believe. We are told from birth to death that what these two things, science and society are the keeps of knowledge and truth yet they have no  greater ability to see this reality then we do.

No one ever told me that. They often have a view point that is less objective then we have but we tend to subjugate what we see and believe to the will of what they want us to believe.  Science has made many errors as has society but they remain steadfast in their belief that they are the infallible source that we should accept.

Science does never makes any claim to be infallible (some pretend scientists may) – science is based on theoretical models to explain experimental results.   One issue that is going to erupted soon that will demonstrate just how lacking these two are involves science. For a long time we have been taught that the speed of light is a constant that is the standard for measurement in much of science.

Again this is just the special relativity model. It isn’t truth or sacred. As soon as a result doesn’t fit a new model will be developed. That’s how science got where it is now. Some traditionalists may try to hold it back but that isn’t science. <snip   Both society and science continue to make judgment errors and we have to adjust.

Science doesn’t make judgements. Either the results are repeatable and fit the proposed model or they don’t. <snip Kundrol

Response:

Awhile ago I posted something called reality which was about how we see our world.  One of the statements made was the we can never see any more the 1/2 of this reality because of it’s physical limitations.  To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube.  While we can …put a mirror behind it… L8r, alX

Better yet, suspend it on a glass shelf surrounded by mirrors on five sides ie: "below, above behind, left and right." Use the above five points as an analogy for "centering, grounding, meditation, prayer and using the third eye." We allow our lives to fall in to a deep pit before we are willing to stop and re-evaluated what we are and what we believe. How much of what you are and what you believe is valid based on the reality you see? Got no clue?  Then you are not in control of your life or the path you are walking.

I’ve got a clue. How about you? Love, Peace and Bright Blessings SamWise http://steinwerk.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awhile ago I posted something called reality which was about how we see our world.  One of the statements made was the we can never see any more the 1/2 of this reality because of it’s physical limitations.  To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube.  While we can …put a mirror behind it… L8r, alX Better yet, suspend it on a glass shelf surrounded by mirrors on five sides ie: "below, above behind, left and right."

Well, even avoiding the mirrors, it’s possible to see up to five sides at the same time.  You simply need a sufficiently small cube such that it’s diagonal measurment is smaller than the distance between your eyes. Hold it  diagonally vertical, very close to your eyes, with one face directly toward you.  You’ll see the four sides which make the perimeter, as well as the front surface, leaving only the rear surface unobserved. But…I do believe we’re over thinking what was said.  If you don’t get nitpicky the gist of what was said makes very much sense.         – Bran Faol — ‘An harm it none, do what you Will,’ is an ideal. At times it is necessary to take the path of least harm because taking no path at would cause more harm.

Response:

Awhile ago I posted something called reality which was about how we see our world.  One of the statements made was the we can never see any more the 1/2 of this reality because of it’s physical limitations.  To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube.  While we can

…put a mirror behind it… L8r, alX

Response:

Sheesh, buddy!  Whatever you are selling, try to do it in fewer words- dont’ bore folks when trying to sell snake oil. I’ve never seen such a long winded rant…. Circe

Response:

Really excellent and educational post!  Thanks.  :) Many Blessings, Tegan  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awhile ago I posted something called reality which was about how we see our world.  One of the statements made was the we can never see any more the 1/2 of this reality because of it’s physical limitations.  To demonstrate this point I suggested you find a cube and place it in front of you.  No matter position you chose to use to see that cube at no point in time can you see more the half of that cube.  While we can change our point of view and by Adding the first seen aspect of the cube to what we see form a different point of view we can make the assumption of what the whole cube would like like if we could see the whole thing. The irony is that even within our own mind we can not create an image that is greater the the three sides of the cube we can see at any given time. Our reality as well as our thoughts are bound by the limitations of this 3D reality.  This becomes more complicated when one of the dimensions we see or don’t see is incorrectly interpreted. Since the reality we live in has more then just the 3D that we can see we have come to rely on what we believe to be true more then what we know to be true. A case in point can be easily understood if we look at the very pillars that support our reality. Science and society are the foundations of what we believe.  We are told from birth to death that what these two things, science and society are the keeps of knowledge and truth yet they have no  greater ability to see this reality then we do.  They often have a view point that is less objective then we have but we tend to subjugate what we see and believe to the will of what they want us to believe.  Science has made many errors as has society but they remain steadfast in their belief that they are the infallible source that we should accept.  One issue that is going to erupted soon that will demonstrate just how lacking these two are involves science. For a long time we have been taught that the speed of light is a constant that is the standard for measurement in much of science.  Now as we expand our understanding of the cosmos we find that this many not be as constant as we thought.  Consider the statement of science that light can not escape a black hole.  If this is the case then light does not travel at a constant speed.  If light can and is effected by gravity then it is effected by all of gravity not just the extremes of the gravity within a black hole.  The theory that time and space are flexible and that as the fabric of time and space are stretched and distorted by gravity and thus causing light to travel further and in so doing accounting for the small variations in time still can not justify the actions of light in are around a black hole.  It would seem obvious that the physical laws we have chosen to accept concerning light may not always be true.  If that is the case then the whole of what we know will once again have to be examined to determine how much of what we accept as true will need to be revamped to accommodate the actions of light around a black hole. With in society the same process is always being applied.  For example here in the United States we assumed that the success of easter style management techniques is what  cause the demise and fall of our control of major markets.  We went so far as to attempted to incorporate the management styles of the easter world like Japan into our industries. Now we see that while that style generated success that it also was no sustainable.  The control by the eastern style managed companies is now is disarray and  Japanese economy is at the brink of disaster. Society defined success and it defined the management style it felt could achieve success but as usual society saw only a small part of what the true reality was.  Both society and science continue to make judgment errors and we have to adjust.  We as individuals make the same kind of errors and chose to ignore them until they create a crisis we can no longer ignore.  We allow our lives to fall in to a deep pit before we are willing to stop and re-evaluated what we are and what we believe. How much of what you are and what you believe is valid based on the reality you see? Got no clue?  Then you are not in control of your life or the path you are walking. — Please take a moment to visit the web pages devoted to earth friendly beliefs and some of the things written by A. Nonperson. Visit http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6891/anon/anon.htm

Response:

Question:

I’m searching for information on the adequacy of start up capital.  The issue is the protection of creditors in bankruptcy.  Any reference to case law, texts or white papers on the subject is appreciated. — M

Response:

Your question is more of a legal nature than an accounting nature.  The old corporate veil issue is known to accountants but generally is not a matter that they are equipped to opine on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m searching for information on the adequacy of start up capital.  The issue is the protection of creditors in bankruptcy.  Any reference to case law, texts or white papers on the subject is appreciated. — M

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I N T E R N E T ‘ S  M A O I S T  BI-W E E K L Y = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =     XX XX  XXX  XX XX   X   X  XXX  XXX  XXX  XXX     X X X   X   X X X   XX  X  X X   X   X    X     X V X   X   X V X   X X X  X X   X   XX   XXX     X   X   X   X   X   X  XX  X X   X   X      X     X   X  XXX  X   X   X   V  XXX   X   XXX  XXX = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =         THE MAOIST INTERNATIONALIST MOVEMENT     MIM Notes 118                  JULY 15, 1996 AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SETBACK IN TEXAS In addition to a number of stupid comments from the court addressing a non-issue by arguing that race is not determinist in a student’s achievement or abilities, this case sets a clear precedent for an incorrect evaluation of affirmative action. Affirmative action is a minor reform in a country that has, for 500 years, discriminated against

Really? You mean that the "oppression" started in 1496? Prey tell – who was discriminated against?   certain groups and favored other groups.

There is no fairness to inner city kids being harassed by pigs for walking the streets, or having to work while going to school, or going to schools that are poorly funded because their property taxes are lower because they can’t afford to live in the wealthy neighborhood. There is also no fairness in the SAT which is a better measure of one’s whiteness and maleness than one’s "intelligence".

Thats RIGHT. 2+2=4 is one of the most bigoted MALE concepts I’ve ever seen!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I N T E R N E T ‘ S  M A O I S T  BI-W E E K L Y = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =     XX XX  XXX  XX XX   X   X  XXX  XXX  XXX  XXX     X X X   X   X X X   XX  X  X X   X   X    X     X V X   X   X V X   X X X  X X   X   XX   XXX     X   X   X   X   X   X  XX  X X   X   X      X     X   X  XXX  X   X   X   V  XXX   X   XXX  XXX = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =         THE MAOIST INTERNATIONALIST MOVEMENT     MIM Notes 118                  JULY 15, 1996 AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SETBACK IN TEXAS The verdict in a recent Texas case, **Hopwood et al. vs. The State of Texas,** continues the trend towards more reactionary cutbacks in affirmative action across the United Snakes. The circuit court pointed out the facts of affirmative action as if they were crimes: "With the best of intentions, in order to increase the enrollment of certain favored classes of minority students, the University of Texas School of Law discriminates in favor of those applicants by giving substantial racial preferences in its admissions program. The beneficiaries of this system are blacks and Mexican Americans, to the detriment of whites and non-preferred minorities."(1) MIM thinks that affirmative action that benefits Blacks and Latinos to the detriment of whites is a good thing. Whites have all the advantages in Amerika, so policies that force some small balancing of the scales are progressive.

Typical socialist thinking, take everything away from the people who worked hard to produce it and give it to those who did nothing.  Why are Asians not classified as "non-preferred minorities"? Does non-preferred simply mean non-productive? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The plaintiffs, white applicants to the UT Law School, claimed their rights were violated when they were not admitted. The court said there is no justification that allows UT "to continue to elevate some races over others, even for the wholesome purpose of correcting perceived racial imbalance in the student body."(1) Of course they neglected to comment on the issue of why it is OK for UT to elevate the white race over others by considering only biased tests like the SAT and LSAT for admissions or by looking at grade point averages without accounting for the circumstances of the Black and Latino kids who lived in the projects and worked part- time all through high school compared to the white kids who had private tutors.

Most white kids do not have, nor do they need private tutors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In addition to a number of stupid comments from the court addressing a non-issue by arguing that race is not determinist in a student’s achievement or abilities, this case sets a clear precedent for an incorrect evaluation of affirmative action. Affirmative action is a minor reform in a country that has, for 500 years, discriminated against certain groups and favored other groups. There is no fairness to inner city kids being harassed by pigs for walking the streets, or having to work while going to school, or going to schools that are poorly funded because their property taxes are lower because they can’t afford to live in the wealthy neighborhood. There is also no fairness in the SAT which is a better measure of one’s whiteness and maleness than one’s "intelligence". As one UT student put it "Given that slavery lasted more than 200 years, shouldn’t we give affirmative action an equal time span to prove itself effective?"(1)

Slavery, as evil as it was, at least *produced* something in this country.  There is nothing productive in affirmative action other than a socialistic method of punishing one group of people in favor of another group of people.  The is NO guarantee that A.A. will lead to productivity or betterment of our society.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A recent study by the University of Texas Press supports MIM’s understanding of discrimination in Amerika; it points out that Latino students who drop out of high school do so because of failures in the school system not because their family does not value education. For instance, the schools overestimated the educational and financial resources of the Latino parents in the study. Schools assumed that parents would make up for educational deficiencies in their children even though most of the parents of the Latino kids had less than a high school education themselves. One school consistently placed students who were having trouble into the low-level programs or other punishment environments where teacher help was hard to find.(2) This is just one small piece of a whole system that does not make growing up in Amerika a fair contest between different nationalities.

Basically what your saying is that the Latino segment of our society is either a bunch of crybabies, or they are all idiots. (A sentiment which I do not happen to agree with).  Any parent without a high school education that cares about their children at all would be stressing, to the exclusion of all else, the importance of a good education.   Again what about middle and upper class Blacks and Latinos?  What about Asians at just about any income level?  What about low income Whites? MIM thinks that all education should be available to all people who want it and that there should be no arbitrary admission "standards", especially none based on incorrect estimations of success like biased standardized tests.

Agreed, education should be available to all who want it, as long as we remove the disrujptive elements in our school system who simply do not wish to be there.   While affirmative action is a progressive reform under capitalism that helps a few more members of oppressed nations get an education they can use to fight against this repressive system, we fight for the day when education will be open to everyone. MIM works toward an educational system that encourages growth and learning in everyone regardless of their nation, class or gender.

Oppressed nations?  I though we were talking about Americans here. There are NO members of nations that are citizens of this country.  If they are, then they are expatriots and I have no sympathy for their ability to even survive here.  Until one considers themselves to be American ( no matter what hand they have been dealt) it will be almost impossible for them to succeed.  As for an open educational system, we have tried bussing, we have thrown billions of dollars at it, we have tried the "Robin Hood" method of distributing money, we have the State Lotteries (Most voted in under the premise of increasing revenue for the State school system).  When will you admit that it is just a fact of life or human nature that some will succeed, some will survive, and some will fail *regardless* of their socioeconomic, racial, or religious standing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -NOTES: 1. The University Review, The Independent Student Journal at The University of Texas at Austin, May 15, 1996. 2. Arriba, June 14-June 27, 1996, p.5. MIM Notes is not copyrighted. Please credit MIM when redistributing or referring to this material. Subscriptions are $20 for 24 issues, U.S. mail or e-mail. Send cash, stamps or check made out to "MIM Distributors." Write: MIM Distributors, PO Box 3576, Ann Arbor MI http://ursula.blythe.org/mim — ## ##  ###  ## ##    MAOIST INTERNATIONALIST MOVEMENT # # #   #   # # #    P.O. BOX 3576 ANN ARBOR MI 48106 — ## ##  ###  ## ##    MAOIST INTERNATIONALIST MOVEMENT # # #   #   # # #    P.O. BOX 3576 ANN ARBOR MI 48106

*  My God…….                    * *         It’s full of Stars!       * *                                   * *                –David Bowman–   *

Response:

I N T E R N E T ‘ S  M A O I S T  BI-W E E K L Y = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =      XX XX  XXX  XX XX   X   X  XXX  XXX  XXX  XXX      X X X   X   X X X   XX  X  X X   X   X    X      X V X   X   X V X   X X X  X X   X   XX   XXX      X   X   X   X   X   X  XX  X X   X   X      X      X   X  XXX  X   X   X   V  XXX   X   XXX  XXX = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =          THE MAOIST INTERNATIONALIST MOVEMENT      MIM Notes 118                  JULY 15, 1996 AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SETBACK IN TEXAS The verdict in a recent Texas case, **Hopwood et al. vs. The State of Texas,** continues the trend towards more reactionary cutbacks in affirmative action across the United Snakes. The circuit court pointed out the facts of affirmative action as if they were crimes: "With the best of intentions, in order to increase the enrollment of certain favored classes of minority students, the University of Texas School of Law discriminates in favor of those applicants by giving substantial racial preferences in its admissions program. The beneficiaries of this system are blacks and Mexican Americans, to the detriment of whites and non-preferred minorities."(1) MIM thinks that affirmative action that benefits Blacks and Latinos to the detriment of whites is a good thing. Whites have all the advantages in Amerika, so policies that force some small balancing of the scales are progressive. The plaintiffs, white applicants to the UT Law School, claimed their rights were violated when they were not admitted. The court said there is no justification that allows UT "to continue to elevate some races over others, even for the wholesome purpose of correcting perceived racial imbalance in the student body."(1) Of course they neglected to comment on the issue of why it is OK for UT to elevate the white race over others by considering only biased tests like the SAT and LSAT for admissions or by looking at grade point averages without accounting for the circumstances of the Black and Latino kids who lived in the projects and worked part- time all through high school compared to the white kids who had private tutors. In addition to a number of stupid comments from the court addressing a non-issue by arguing that race is not determinist in a student’s achievement or abilities, this case sets a clear precedent for an incorrect evaluation of affirmative action. Affirmative action is a minor reform in a country that has, for 500 years, discriminated against certain groups and favored other groups. There is no fairness to inner city kids being harassed by pigs for walking the streets, or having to work while going to school, or going to schools that are poorly funded because their property taxes are lower because they can’t afford to live in the wealthy neighborhood. There is also no fairness in the SAT which is a better measure of one’s whiteness and maleness than one’s "intelligence". As one UT student put it "Given that slavery lasted more than 200 years, shouldn’t we give affirmative action an equal time span to prove itself effective?"(1) A recent study by the University of Texas Press supports MIM’s understanding of discrimination in Amerika; it points out that Latino students who drop out of high school do so because of failures in the school system not because their family does not value education. For instance, the schools overestimated the educational and financial resources of the Latino parents in the study. Schools assumed that parents would make up for educational deficiencies in their children even though most of the parents of the Latino kids had less than a high school education themselves. One school consistently placed students who were having trouble into the low-level programs or other punishment environments where teacher help was hard to find.(2) This is just one small piece of a whole system that does not make growing up in Amerika a fair contest between different nationalities. MIM thinks that all education should be available to all people who want it and that there should be no arbitrary admission "standards", especially none based on incorrect estimations of success like biased standardized tests. While affirmative action is a progressive reform under capitalism that helps a few more members of oppressed nations get an education they can use to fight against this repressive system, we fight for the day when education will be open to everyone. MIM works toward an educational system that encourages growth and learning in everyone regardless of their nation, class or gender. NOTES: 1. The University Review, The Independent Student Journal at The University of Texas at Austin, May 15, 1996. 2. Arriba, June 14-June 27, 1996, p.5. MIM Notes is not copyrighted. Please credit MIM when redistributing or referring to this material. Subscriptions are $20 for 24 issues, U.S. mail or e-mail. Send cash, stamps or check made out to "MIM Distributors." Write: MIM Distributors, PO Box 3576, Ann Arbor MI http://ursula.blythe.org/mim — ## ##  ###  ## ##    MAOIST INTERNATIONALIST MOVEMENT # # #   #   # # #    P.O. BOX 3576 ANN ARBOR MI 48106 — ## ##  ###  ## ##    MAOIST INTERNATIONALIST MOVEMENT # # #   #   # # #    P.O. BOX 3576 ANN ARBOR MI 48106

Response: