Question:

If I was to obtain my CPA here in America, and work for a little while then move to either the UK or Australia would being a CPA carry any weight over there?  Would it be laterally transferrable, or would it just be recognition (if that)?  Is there a test similar in the UK or Australia to the CPA in America? Thank you, Geoffrey

Response:

Would advise you visit http://www.icaew.co.uk/ http://www.cpaaustralia.com.au/cps/rde/xchg http://www.icaa.org.au/ and review the relevant section.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I was to obtain my CPA here in America, and work for a little while then move to either the UK or Australia would being a CPA carry any weight over there?  Would it be laterally transferrable, or would it just be recognition (if that)?  Is there a test similar in the UK or Australia to the CPA in America? Thank you, Geoffrey

Response:

I guess it depends what work you do. Clearly, the tax & corporate laws are different. Also, the accounting standards are different (Australia is moving to European standards on 1 Jan 2005). But then, I see the occasional advert for accountants who know a bit about American standards. You’re lucky that so many multinationals are domiciled in the US! Here are three good job search engines from Australia www.seek.com.au www.mycareer.com.au www.cajobs.com.au

Response:

Recently met a CPA working for PwC. Shortage of accountants down under…maybe   it’s worth considering joining one of the big firms, get your CPA and ask for a secondment. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess it depends what work you do. Clearly, the tax & corporate laws are different. Also, the accounting standards are different (Australia is moving to European standards on 1 Jan 2005). But then, I see the occasional advert for accountants who know a bit about American standards. You’re lucky that so many multinationals are domiciled in the US! Here are three good job search engines from Australia www.seek.com.au www.mycareer.com.au www.cajobs.com.au

Response:

Question:

Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

Response:

You’re obviously very dumb.  Norway is quite affluent.  Ever hear of North Sea oil.  DUH! Jeff Trishia Rose wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

Response:

Impoverised ?? they are about twice as wealthy as USA per capita and one of most technicaly advanced. maybe we could learn a thing or two from them.  before speaking read following info on Norway: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/no.html here is what it says about economics:       Economy – overview:       The Norwegian economy is a prosperous bastion of welfare capitalism, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector (through large-scale state enterprises). The country is richly endowed with natural resources – petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals – and is highly dependent on its oil production and international oil prices, with oil and gas accounting for one-third of exports. Only Saudi Arabia and Russia export more oil than Norway. Norway opted to stay out of the EU during a referendum in November 1994. The government has moved ahead with privatization. With arguably the highest quality of life worldwide, Norwegians still worry about that time in the next two decades when the oil and gas begin to run out. Accordingly, Norway has been saving its oil-boosted budget surpluses in a Government Petroleum Fund, which is invested abroad and now is valued at more than $43 billion. GDP growth was a lackluster 1% in 2002 and 0.5% in 2003 against the background of a faltering European economy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

begin 666 dictionary.jpg M`0`"$0,1“`![$!QLO)F!2B6-F),%"!1_]H`" $!“$%`L8_+6#:X&W-6;D MQ*#NI+U/BO4&[<[YK[XBC1&E7ZJ(NYEK;P3F_;#KV;&S9M;,]61 M9A)XI"=Y=1(RBF2+RT8ZIU;4XS3("B=’/%=?Y]+;"O*`VF-GD*- M,;G3,.NRKL*,1#6Y&6,AR!’8`3 4-!W"<K[!G<9]8""7)56-WJ_B(S! ` end begin 666 listing.jpg [`1" `2`!D#`1$``A$!`Q$!_` MWF:MNC;LXQD14N7OPGZL^+ <6)%L4ZIO0DFM.IOG#*9O%(J-ZGC,C&_*]N:9 J*7ITP7&58N(((JM,D9(TRZR^ZT9[7 S2RH080OX:T2=I*!B%U__9 ` end

Response:

Impoverised ?? they are about twice as wealthy as USA per capita and one of most technicaly advanced.

Methinks I ruffled a feather with my initial post, and that said feather was skillfully crafted into a perfectly tied fly, floated gently downstream on the Current of Believability, and right into the waiting maw of the wily Nutzfish. Of course I've been known to be wrong. JP Still wondering..... - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -maybe we could learn a thing or two from them. before speaking read following info on Norway: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/no.html here is what it says about economics:      Economy - overview:      The Norwegian economy is a prosperous bastion of welfare capitalism, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector (through large-scale state enterprises). The country is richly endowed with natural resources - petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals - and is highly dependent on its oil production and international oil prices, with oil and gas accounting for one-third of exports. Only Saudi Arabia and Russia export more oil than Norway. Norway opted to stay out of the EU during a referendum in November 1994. The government has moved ahead with privatization. With arguably the highest quality of life worldwide, Norwegians still worry about that time in the next two decades when the oil and gas begin to run out. Accordingly, Norway has been saving its oil-boosted budget surpluses in a Government Petroleum Fund, which is invested abroad and now is valued at more than $43 billion. GDP growth was a lackluster 1% in 2002 and 0.5% in 2003 against the background of a faltering European economy. Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I'm not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status...

Response:

I'm not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find [...] the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

No no no! You have to be more subtle when you troll, otherwise it just seems… stupid. /Fredrik

Response:

Crap what a sickeningly disrespectful reply! Troll-ette! NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people! Alex

Response:

Crap what a sickeningly disrespectful reply! Troll-ette! NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people!

But no lions or tigers. Alex

Alan — Alan Williams, Room IT301, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K. Tel: +44 161 275 6270      Fax: +44 161 275 6280

Response:

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway,

I just returned from 10 days in the Norwegian fjiords….if that is poverty, how do I emigrate?  (minimum wage is approx $20. USD)

Response:

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, I just returned from 10 days in the Norwegian fjiords….if that is poverty, how do I emigrate?  (minimum wage is approx $20. USD)

A Norwegian here once told me one of her favorite sayings: "Ten thousand Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian." I attended her wedding (to a Swede) in the teeny tiny Norwegian Seamen’s Church in San Francsico.  She wore a real gold crown.

Response:

NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people!

You say that now, but just wait until the warrior-laden longships sail into YOUR harbor! — Visit my Iron Age Pages for technical and fun stuff (holiday specials, too)! http://pages.prodigy.net/feaudrey

Response:

You say that now, but just wait until the warrior-laden longships sail into YOUR harbor!

HA! They’re my ancient descendancy actually. Brothers. Alex

Response:

Crap what a sickeningly disrespectful reply! Troll-ette! NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people! Alex

They did the best damn opening and closing shows of any Winter Olympics that I’ve ever seen. It was within the last 10 years.. awesome show. I’m so wanting to see it in person. robbielynn

Response:

Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking?

Yes but they cannot afford sandpaper so they use dried lutefish instead. Beats eating the stuff. … Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?

Last I heard, they did in Tromso. — FF

Response:

… Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access? Last I heard, they did in Tromso.

 out of 4.5 million norwegians there are 2.5 million internet accounts.  so I would say just about every family is hooked up. Jaap

Response:

… Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access? Last I heard, they did in Tromso.  out of 4.5 million norwegians there are 2.5 million internet accounts.  so I would say just about every family is hooked up. Jaap

No, there are only 5 Norwegians with internet access.  The rub is that each one of them has 500,000 internet accounts.

Response:

Yes but they cannot afford sandpaper so they use dried lutefish instead.

Can you dry it?   I thought the slime was a permanent feature. Beats eating the stuff.

Drown it in enough melted butter so you don’t taste it.   Wrap it in a bit of lefse. The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. scott

Response:

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, I just returned from 10 days in the Norwegian fjiords….if that is poverty, how do I emigrate?  (minimum wage is approx $20. USD)

But how much does that $20 buy? — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

A Norwegian here once told me one of her favorite sayings: "Ten thousand Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian."

Wrong. That was :Ten thousand female virgin Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian with his Norwegian Wood." I once had a girl or should I say she once had me She showed me her room, isn’t it good Norwegian wood She asked me to stay and she told me to sit anywhere So I looked around and I noticed there wasn’t a chair I sat on a rug biding my time drinking her wine We talked until two and then she said: ‘It’s time for bed’ She told me she worked in the morning and started to laugh I told her I didn’t and crawled off to sleep in the bath And when I awoke I was alone, this bird had flown So I lit a fire, isn’t it good Norwegian wood   The Beatles

Response:

The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it.

What about the Norwegian hottie that serves it? JP

Response:

The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. What about the Norwegian hottie that serves it?

They’re all in Norway.   Hottie and Wisconsin don’t seem to go together. scott (alright, enough flames already).

Response:

The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it.

<rerun "The Power of Lutefisk" http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~atman/ic/lutefisk.html </rerun <g    – Mark

Response:

While lutefisk, and the prep thereof is disgusting, it isn’t, when served with the bacon and pea mush, not that bad. We experienced it on Crystal Harmony in 1994 at the Captain’s table, and when we were lucky enough the seated there again in 1995 on Crystal Symphony with the same Captain, we requested it again. — DG in Cherry Hill, NJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. <rerun "The Power of Lutefisk" http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~atman/ic/lutefisk.html </rerun <g    – Mark

Response:

Shut up, Chrissy, just shut the fuck up.

Response:

Trishia: Either you’re trying to be amusing and failing badly, or you know absolutely nothing about Norway. Norway, for example, is one of the richest countries in the entire world. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

Response:

Shut up Dick. just shut the fuck up – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While lutefisk, and the prep thereof is disgusting, it isn’t, when served with the bacon and pea mush, not that bad. We experienced it on Crystal Harmony in 1994 at the Captain’s table, and when we were lucky enough the seated there again in 1995 on Crystal Symphony with the same Captain, we requested it again. — DG in Cherry Hill, NJ The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. <rerun "The Power of Lutefisk" http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~atman/ic/lutefisk.html </rerun <g   — Mark

Response:

Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

Response:

You’re obviously very dumb.  Norway is quite affluent.  Ever hear of North Sea oil.  DUH! Jeff Trishia Rose wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

Response:

Impoverised ?? they are about twice as wealthy as USA per capita and one of most technicaly advanced. maybe we could learn a thing or two from them.  before speaking read following info on Norway: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/no.html here is what it says about economics:       Economy – overview:       The Norwegian economy is a prosperous bastion of welfare capitalism, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector (through large-scale state enterprises). The country is richly endowed with natural resources – petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals – and is highly dependent on its oil production and international oil prices, with oil and gas accounting for one-third of exports. Only Saudi Arabia and Russia export more oil than Norway. Norway opted to stay out of the EU during a referendum in November 1994. The government has moved ahead with privatization. With arguably the highest quality of life worldwide, Norwegians still worry about that time in the next two decades when the oil and gas begin to run out. Accordingly, Norway has been saving its oil-boosted budget surpluses in a Government Petroleum Fund, which is invested abroad and now is valued at more than $43 billion. GDP growth was a lackluster 1% in 2002 and 0.5% in 2003 against the background of a faltering European economy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

begin 666 dictionary.jpg M`0`"$0,1“`![$!QLO)F!2B6-F),%"!1_]H`" $!“$%`L8_+6#:X&W-6;D MQ*#NI+U/BO4&[<[YK[XBC1&E7ZJ(NYEK;P3F_;#KV;&S9M;,]61 M9A)XI"=Y=1(RBF2+RT8ZIU;4XS3("B=’/%=?Y]+;"O*`VF-GD*- M,;G3,.NRKL*,1#6Y&6,AR!’8`3 4-!W"<K[!G<9]8""7)56-WJ_B(S! ` end begin 666 listing.jpg [`1" `2`!D#`1$``A$!`Q$!_` MWF:MNC;LXQD14N7OPGZL^+ <6)%L4ZIO0DFM.IOG#*9O%(J-ZGC,C&_*]N:9 J*7ITP7&58N(((JM,D9(TRZR^ZT9[7 S2RH080OX:T2=I*!B%U__9 ` end

Response:

Impoverised ?? they are about twice as wealthy as USA per capita and one of most technicaly advanced.

Methinks I ruffled a feather with my initial post, and that said feather was skillfully crafted into a perfectly tied fly, floated gently downstream on the Current of Believability, and right into the waiting maw of the wily Nutzfish. Of course I've been known to be wrong. JP Still wondering..... - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -maybe we could learn a thing or two from them. before speaking read following info on Norway: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/no.html here is what it says about economics:      Economy - overview:      The Norwegian economy is a prosperous bastion of welfare capitalism, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector (through large-scale state enterprises). The country is richly endowed with natural resources - petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals - and is highly dependent on its oil production and international oil prices, with oil and gas accounting for one-third of exports. Only Saudi Arabia and Russia export more oil than Norway. Norway opted to stay out of the EU during a referendum in November 1994. The government has moved ahead with privatization. With arguably the highest quality of life worldwide, Norwegians still worry about that time in the next two decades when the oil and gas begin to run out. Accordingly, Norway has been saving its oil-boosted budget surpluses in a Government Petroleum Fund, which is invested abroad and now is valued at more than $43 billion. GDP growth was a lackluster 1% in 2002 and 0.5% in 2003 against the background of a faltering European economy. Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I'm not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status...

Response:

I'm not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find [...] the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

No no no! You have to be more subtle when you troll, otherwise it just seems… stupid. /Fredrik

Response:

Crap what a sickeningly disrespectful reply! Troll-ette! NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people! Alex

Response:

Crap what a sickeningly disrespectful reply! Troll-ette! NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people!

But no lions or tigers. Alex

Alan — Alan Williams, Room IT301, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K. Tel: +44 161 275 6270      Fax: +44 161 275 6280

Response:

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway,

I just returned from 10 days in the Norwegian fjiords….if that is poverty, how do I emigrate?  (minimum wage is approx $20. USD)

Response:

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, I just returned from 10 days in the Norwegian fjiords….if that is poverty, how do I emigrate?  (minimum wage is approx $20. USD)

A Norwegian here once told me one of her favorite sayings: "Ten thousand Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian." I attended her wedding (to a Swede) in the teeny tiny Norwegian Seamen’s Church in San Francsico.  She wore a real gold crown.

Response:

NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people!

You say that now, but just wait until the warrior-laden longships sail into YOUR harbor! — Visit my Iron Age Pages for technical and fun stuff (holiday specials, too)! http://pages.prodigy.net/feaudrey

Response:

You say that now, but just wait until the warrior-laden longships sail into YOUR harbor!

HA! They’re my ancient descendancy actually. Brothers. Alex

Response:

Crap what a sickeningly disrespectful reply! Troll-ette! NORWAY! AWESOME COUNTRY of a peaceful people! Alex

They did the best damn opening and closing shows of any Winter Olympics that I’ve ever seen. It was within the last 10 years.. awesome show. I’m so wanting to see it in person. robbielynn

Response:

Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking?

Yes but they cannot afford sandpaper so they use dried lutefish instead. Beats eating the stuff. … Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?

Last I heard, they did in Tromso. — FF

Response:

… Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access? Last I heard, they did in Tromso.

 out of 4.5 million norwegians there are 2.5 million internet accounts.  so I would say just about every family is hooked up. Jaap

Response:

… Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access? Last I heard, they did in Tromso.  out of 4.5 million norwegians there are 2.5 million internet accounts.  so I would say just about every family is hooked up. Jaap

No, there are only 5 Norwegians with internet access.  The rub is that each one of them has 500,000 internet accounts.

Response:

Yes but they cannot afford sandpaper so they use dried lutefish instead.

Can you dry it?   I thought the slime was a permanent feature. Beats eating the stuff.

Drown it in enough melted butter so you don’t taste it.   Wrap it in a bit of lefse. The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. scott

Response:

I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, I just returned from 10 days in the Norwegian fjiords….if that is poverty, how do I emigrate?  (minimum wage is approx $20. USD)

But how much does that $20 buy? — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

A Norwegian here once told me one of her favorite sayings: "Ten thousand Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian."

Wrong. That was :Ten thousand female virgin Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian with his Norwegian Wood." I once had a girl or should I say she once had me She showed me her room, isn’t it good Norwegian wood She asked me to stay and she told me to sit anywhere So I looked around and I noticed there wasn’t a chair I sat on a rug biding my time drinking her wine We talked until two and then she said: ‘It’s time for bed’ She told me she worked in the morning and started to laugh I told her I didn’t and crawled off to sleep in the bath And when I awoke I was alone, this bird had flown So I lit a fire, isn’t it good Norwegian wood   The Beatles

Response:

The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it.

What about the Norwegian hottie that serves it? JP

Response:

The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. What about the Norwegian hottie that serves it?

They’re all in Norway.   Hottie and Wisconsin don’t seem to go together. scott (alright, enough flames already).

Response:

The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it.

<rerun "The Power of Lutefisk" http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~atman/ic/lutefisk.html </rerun <g    – Mark

Response:

While lutefisk, and the prep thereof is disgusting, it isn’t, when served with the bacon and pea mush, not that bad. We experienced it on Crystal Harmony in 1994 at the Captain’s table, and when we were lucky enough the seated there again in 1995 on Crystal Symphony with the same Captain, we requested it again. — DG in Cherry Hill, NJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. <rerun "The Power of Lutefisk" http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~atman/ic/lutefisk.html </rerun <g    – Mark

Response:

Shut up, Chrissy, just shut the fuck up.

Response:

Trishia: Either you’re trying to be amusing and failing badly, or you know absolutely nothing about Norway. Norway, for example, is one of the richest countries in the entire world. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there from Norway? Just curious. JP I’m not from Norway, but reading your post made me think.  In a country as impoverished and unstable as Norway, do people still find time and resources to pursue such luxurious endeavors as woodworking? I understand it is quite natural and something of a psychological defense to divert oneself with some trivial game or other distraction during the final days before starvation, but woodworking seems rather an illogical conduit for this.  Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone in Norway even have internet access?  I would think with the state of things over there, there are a lot of other things they could spend their money on that would help them crawl closer towards third world status…

Response:

Shut up Dick. just shut the fuck up – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While lutefisk, and the prep thereof is disgusting, it isn’t, when served with the bacon and pea mush, not that bad. We experienced it on Crystal Harmony in 1994 at the Captain’s table, and when we were lucky enough the seated there again in 1995 on Crystal Symphony with the same Captain, we requested it again. — DG in Cherry Hill, NJ The only good thing about a lutefisk dinner is the swedish meatballs, mashed potatoes and lefse! served along with it. <rerun "The Power of Lutefisk" http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~atman/ic/lutefisk.html </rerun <g   — Mark

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Question:

 Yes, I was referring to "Self-Insurance" in only the area that I may state (And other sellers) that they "include insurance" with their shipping.

I think that’s a little bit different.  If the insurance isn’t being sold as a separate product, with the buyer having the option to buy it (and often consequences if they don’t), it didn’t sound like it would be a problem from the unauthorized business of insurance POV.  Basically you’re talking about a seller who builds replacement costs into his expenses. That’s not selling the hedging of risk.  "Insured" might be a tad misleading as a phrase in such a case, but as long as you’re not actually selling the stuff as a freestanding product it didn’t sound like it would cause a problem.  If I am to operate like some sellers here "Oh? A Problem? Here’s refund! Keep product! I’m sorry!" I’d feel better to know that I’m covered with the rest of my buyers who are paying for "Peace of mind"

I agree. Basically, there seem to be three approaches (or four, if you want to break the first one down into two). Sellers who assume the responsibility for safe delivery with all their items.  They may outsource that responsibility by choosing to purchase insurance, through USPS, PIC, or whoever, but there’s no specific purchase by the buyer. Sellers who will purchase legal insurance at the buyer’s behest and payment, often offering that as the only way someone will take responsibility for the item’s delivery. Sellers who will provide what’s unfortunately not legal insurance at the buyer’s behest and payment, often offering that as the only way someone will take responsibility for the item’s delivery. I like #1, and I’m with bp in being less than crazy about #2.  It’s number #3 that I’m talking about with the "self-insurance," however, and that I refuse to accept.  If a seller didn’t buy insurance with the money provided for that purpose, I’ll ask for it back.  Not that I would ever screw them out of anything, I firmly believe that if they pay, I should do all possible to make sure the product as sold, arrives in working order, but it’s a fact, that sometimes things happen.  But no, I wouldn’t say "Insurance included" but not have bought it. I’m not THAT crazy

I did actually think you were joking, but since I clearly had this whole imaginary thread in my head that wasn’t really this one, it’s probably best not to go by me . Deborah Stevenson

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Kimberly Murphy-Smith wrote Does the "self-insurance" can of worms need a drink entry in the drinking game?  This one seems to come up a LOT recently…

Hmm. Are there any topics of discussion here that are not possible drinking game entries?

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My spider-sense tingled when Deborah Stevenson,,, Let me rephrase it, depending on what you’re actually talking about.  I thought you were referring to a seller’s claiming that the charge was for USPS insurance but not actually buying it.  It sounds like you’re actually opening up the "self-insurance" can of worms instead.

Does the "self-insurance" can of worms need a drink entry in the drinking game?  This one seems to come up a LOT recently… http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/ Kimberly’s Barbie Collection: http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/barbies.html

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Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?

   I think you should charge for it. But if you trust your customers, then pocket the $1.30 and if they make a claim, send cash fast.   You’ll be way ahead of the game..Always

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Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?    I think you should charge for it. But if you trust your customers, then pocket the $1.30 and if they make a claim, send cash fast.

Sounds like fraud. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   You’ll be way ahead of the game..Always

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Midnight Dad wrote Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance? I think that the seller should see that you will receive what you paid for. Whether the seller needs to purchase insurance in order to achieve this is the seller’s decision. I’ve never seen a seller pay for insurance.  Do you have an example? Dunno what bp’s thinking of or what you’ve thinking of, but I’ve received lots of packages where the seller paid for insurance.  They may have raised their starting bid accordingly or factored it in elsewhere, but I didn’t pay them any separate insurance fee and the package arrived insured. There are also sellers who simply guarantee their sales, and if the item doesn’t arrive or arrives broken will refund or replace.  For such sellers, insurance is superfluous.

This seems contrary to the advice you gave about "self insurance". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deborah Stevenson

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<snip There are also sellers who simply guarantee their sales, and if the item doesn’t arrive or arrives broken will refund or replace.  For such sellers, insurance is superfluous. This seems contrary to the advice you gave about "self insurance".

Not at all.  In her prior posts she makes it clear that she has no problem with people who offer a guarantee on safe delivery if they don’t charge the customer for it directly.  The problem she has is with people who say they’re offering insurance or a guarantee of delivery if you pay $x, and then don’t purchase insurance through a licensed carrier. Richard Ward

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I’ve never seen a seller pay for insurance.  Do you have an example? Dunno what bp’s thinking of or what you’ve thinking of, but I’ve received lots of packages where the seller paid for insurance.  They may have raised their starting bid accordingly or factored it in elsewhere, but I didn’t pay them any separate insurance fee and the package arrived insured. There are also sellers who simply guarantee their sales, and if the item doesn’t arrive or arrives broken will refund or replace.  For such sellers, insurance is superfluous. This seems contrary to the advice you gave about "self insurance".

Then I think you misread.  Lots of merchants stand behind their items–that’s perfectly legal.  What’s not legal is to sell something as a separate product that’s a hedge against risk unless you’re doing so in accordance with the laws of your state. Basically, they’re complete opposites.  One situation is a merchant who considers the purchase price to be sufficient to entitle the buyer to the product whatever happens; the other is a merchant who not only won’t guarantee the product but wants to make money from doing so despite the law. Deborah Stevenson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never seen a seller pay for insurance.  Do you have an example? Dunno what bp’s thinking of or what you’ve thinking of, but I’ve received lots of packages where the seller paid for insurance.  They may have raised their starting bid accordingly or factored it in elsewhere, but I didn’t pay them any separate insurance fee and the package arrived insured. There are also sellers who simply guarantee their sales, and if the item doesn’t arrive or arrives broken will refund or replace.  For such sellers, insurance is superfluous. This seems contrary to the advice you gave about "self insurance". Then I think you misread.  Lots of merchants stand behind their items–that’s perfectly legal.  What’s not legal is to sell something as a separate product that’s a hedge against risk unless you’re doing so in accordance with the laws of your state.

I don’t see the distinction between a seller who guarantees the item and one who self-insures.  Obviously you’re paying money for the self-insurance, but you’re still only relying on the seller’s word.  The only way to ensure satisfaction is to buy underwritten and legal insurance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Basically, they’re complete opposites.  One situation is a merchant who considers the purchase price to be sufficient to entitle the buyer to the product whatever happens; the other is a merchant who not only won’t guarantee the product but wants to make money from doing so despite the law. Deborah Stevenson

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Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?

You should do what ever makes you feel most comfortable…but within reason. I have buyers that buy a $1.50 rubber stamp and add on the $1.30 for optional insurance. The postmaster here looks at me when I take those packages in and just shakes his head.  Really I wouldn’t suggest buying the insurance unless it is a very fragile item you are buying. If you are worried about whether or not the seller will ship it, ask the seller if you can pay for delivery confirmation instead. As a seller I purchase delivery confirmation on sales of over $10.00 if the buyer doesn’t opt for the insurance. I have had only one package that I sent to a buyer that got lost in the mail. Of course it was one that wasn’t insured. Not a big deal though, I just replaced the item. That buyer has become a frequent repeat buyer. Cynthia M

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Not unless you don’t pay.. It’s still fraud.  It’s just fraud you’re not likely to get caught at.  Not knock you Deb, but could you cite this? Sure, let’s go .  I’m not against the postal group making a buck, but when I could do the same and possibly at a better cost…. Let me rephrase it, depending on what you’re actually talking about.  I thought you were referring to a seller’s claiming that the charge was for USPS insurance but not actually buying it.  It sounds like you’re actually opening up the "self-insurance" can of worms instead.

  Yes, I was referring to "Self-Insurance" in only the area that I may state (And other sellers) that they "include insurance" with their shipping. That being said, I have never had to say "The item is insured with USPS" although, this is what I do and I’m sure, the buyer is assuming.   Yes, I can see (I’m in Washington (State) which like many other states, preclude you from "operating" an insurance company without the legal papers/bonds to cover your "insursees"   If I am to operate like some sellers here "Oh? A Problem? Here’s refund! Keep product! I’m sorry!" I’d feel better to know that I’m covered with the rest of my buyers who are paying for "Peace of mind"   Not that I would ever screw them out of anything, I firmly believe that if they pay, I should do all possible to make sure the product as sold, arrives in working order, but it’s a fact, that sometimes things happen.   But no, I wouldn’t say "Insurance included" but not have bought it. I’m not THAT crazy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?    I think you should charge for it. But if you trust your customers, then pocket the $1.30 and if they make a claim, send cash fast. Sounds like fraud.

   Not unless you don’t pay..I think that would be obvious..But sometimes….

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Midnight Dad wrote This seems contrary to the advice you gave about "self insurance".

It’s self-insurance if you charge a fee and replace the item for those who paid the fee and not for those who didn’t. When you pay a seller for something, they are obligated to deliver that thing to you as agreed. When selling on eBay, it is often a long walk from the seller’s home to the buyer’s home, so the seller hires someone else (e.g. the post office) to carry out this obligation for them (but it is still the seller’s obligation). If that someone (acting on behalf of the seller) loses or breaks the item, it is the same as if the seller broke or lost the item. It is irrelevant to the buyer whether the seller broke/lost it him/herself or someone they hired did — either way, the seller’s obligation has not been carried out. In this case, the seller owes the buyer another item or a full refund, period — whether or not the carrier is reimbursing the seller is again irrelevant. Some sellers think they can say "we are not responsible for non-delivery/breakage if you don’t pay extra for insurance." Richard says they can get away with this, so I’ll believe him but it’s still pretty weaselly. That’s like buying something in the store and they tell you "We’re pretty sure the item you’ve paid for is in this box but we won’t guarantee it unless you pay us another dollar. And if you don’t pay the extra dollar and the box turns out to be empty, it’s your loss." If a seller talks like the ability to actually deliver what you paid for is not included in their regular standard of service, that’s a very bad sign.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?    I think you should charge for it. But if you trust your customers, then pocket the $1.30 and if they make a claim, send cash fast. Sounds like fraud.   Not unless you don’t pay..

It’s still fraud.  It’s just fraud you’re not likely to get caught at. Deborah Stevenson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never seen a seller pay for insurance.  Do you have an example? Dunno what bp’s thinking of or what you’ve thinking of, but I’ve received lots of packages where the seller paid for insurance.  They may have raised their starting bid accordingly or factored it in elsewhere, but I didn’t pay them any separate insurance fee and the package arrived insured. There are also sellers who simply guarantee their sales, and if the item doesn’t arrive or arrives broken will refund or replace.  For such sellers, insurance is superfluous. This seems contrary to the advice you gave about "self insurance". Then I think you misread.  Lots of merchants stand behind their items–that’s perfectly legal.  What’s not legal is to sell something as a separate product that’s a hedge against risk unless you’re doing so in accordance with the laws of your state. I don’t see the distinction between a seller who guarantees the item and one who self-insures.  Obviously you’re paying money for the self-insurance, but you’re still only relying on the seller’s word.  The only way to ensure satisfaction is to buy underwritten and legal insurance.

The main distinction is that one is legal.  A seller who wishes to build in his costs for replacing the item, buying a Milky Way bar, or renting porn into his starting bid is legally free to do so.  A seller who separately sells the hedging of risk without being licensed is performing an illegal action. However, I don’t see how you’re figuring that the seller’s word is only a factor with a guarantee.  As Intrigue points out, it’s also only the seller’s word that he’s going to buy insurance with that insurance payment.  And as I previously pointed out, there are plenty of sellers who do buy insurance without separately charging the buyer for same, so you’d have run out of all your objections when it comes to those . Deborah Stevenson

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  Not unless you don’t pay.. It’s still fraud.  It’s just fraud you’re not likely to get caught at. Deborah Stevenson

  Not knock you Deb, but could you cite this?   I’m not against the postal group making a buck, but when I could do the same and possibly at a better cost….

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Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?

UPS insures automatically to $100.00. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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  Not unless you don’t pay.. It’s still fraud.  It’s just fraud you’re not likely to get caught at.  Not knock you Deb, but could you cite this?

Sure, let’s go .  I’m not against the postal group making a buck, but when I could do the same and possibly at a better cost….

Let me rephrase it, depending on what you’re actually talking about.  I thought you were referring to a seller’s claiming that the charge was for USPS insurance but not actually buying it.  It sounds like you’re actually opening up the "self-insurance" can of worms instead. At that point fraud’s not necessarily the issue, but it’s still, according to the various state laws and state departments of insurance who’ve been consulted on this (I talked personally to Texas and to Illinois; McPig talked to another state), not legal.  Basically, states have pretty strict control over people’s sale of hedges against risk–it’s an easy area in which to cheat people, after all, and there’s a lot of trust involved. Therefore, as far as the departments of insurance knew, there aren’t any states in the US where this kind of arrangement is legally self-insurance and where you can sell such a hedge against risk as a product, which is what such a seller is doing, without being licensed in that state and having the statutory funds (and the minimums tend to be millionesque, as I recall) set aside as the law requires.  They suggested such a sale would be unauthorized business of insurance, which is actually a felony in some places (Texas for one). Lots of people do it, of course, many without having any idea that it’s likely illegal; few if any ever get caught.  But there are enough buyers who are aware of the difference between actual insurance, which is what they’re legally entitled to be purchasing under that name, and this kind of plan that there’s a reasonable chance that a transaction’s going to go kaflooey one day for a seller trying this, and he’s not going to have much grounds for complaint. I can’t remember if you’re one of the Illinois contingent or not (there’s a pile of us at the moment ); if you’re from another state, you might want to try your own state department of insurance (the number should be on the web if you don’t have blue pages in your phone book any more) or check the phrase "unauthorized business of insurance" at www.findlaw.com in the section on your state laws for more particulars on your state’s approach. Deborah Stevenson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance? I don’t think there’s a simple answer to that–really, the question is do *you* think you should buy shipping insurance? For a start, it depends on how the item is shipped (you may already know this, but what the heck); UPS, for instance, already includes insurance up to $100 in its pricing. For me, it might also depend on how much chance I thought there was that the seller would fail to ship and swear he did and what other recourse was available in that case; how annoyed I’d be to be out my payment at that time; whether the seller stands behind his or her merchandise; how likely the item is to break; how much chance I’ve got to find another one; whether what’s being offered is legal insurance; and probably the direction of the wind. Deborah Stevenson

We should also remember that shipping insurance generally only really guarantees you the right to file a claim… it does not guarantee the carrier will choose to pay that claim. Carriers will often deny claims for damage if the item is poorly packed, so it can have some serious limitations in terms of your protection against damage/breakage. Insurance is a mixed bag… and I tend to agree with Deborah… trust your feelings. Only you can set the right risk level you are comfy with. Cynthia

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Midnight Dad wrote Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance? I think that the seller should see that you will receive what you paid for. Whether the seller needs to purchase insurance in order to achieve this is the seller’s decision. I’ve never seen a seller pay for insurance.  Do you have an example?

Dunno what bp’s thinking of or what you’ve thinking of, but I’ve received lots of packages where the seller paid for insurance.  They may have raised their starting bid accordingly or factored it in elsewhere, but I didn’t pay them any separate insurance fee and the package arrived insured. There are also sellers who simply guarantee their sales, and if the item doesn’t arrive or arrives broken will refund or replace.  For such sellers, insurance is superfluous. Deborah Stevenson

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Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?

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Midnight Dad wrote Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?

I think that the seller should see that you will receive what you paid for. Whether the seller needs to purchase insurance in order to achieve this is the seller’s decision. If a seller requires you to pay an additional fee or else they will disclaim responsibility for non-delivery or breakage, you should avoid that seller.

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Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?

Depends in part upon the seller’s stated policies and their feedback, as well as your faith in their shipping carrier. As a rule, I find the $1.30 (USPS insurance under $50 rate) to be cheap peace of mind. Of course, back in our newbie days my wife once bought a $125 item and didn’t insure it — it was "lost in the mail" and we were out the money. That sort of experience tends to make you careful about these things. — David "Once we decide that anything goes, anything can come home to haunt us." — Bill Moyers

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Midnight Dad wrote Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance? I think that the seller should see that you will receive what you paid for. Whether the seller needs to purchase insurance in order to achieve this is the seller’s decision.

I’ve never seen a seller pay for insurance.  Do you have an example? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a seller requires you to pay an additional fee or else they will disclaim responsibility for non-delivery or breakage, you should avoid that seller.

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Most of my purchases on eBay are inexpensive (<$50).  Do you think I should buy shipping insurance?

I don’t think there’s a simple answer to that–really, the question is do *you* think you should buy shipping insurance? For a start, it depends on how the item is shipped (you may already know this, but what the heck); UPS, for instance, already includes insurance up to $100 in its pricing. For me, it might also depend on how much chance I thought there was that the seller would fail to ship and swear he did and what other recourse was available in that case; how annoyed I’d be to be out my payment at that time; whether the seller stands behind his or her merchandise; how likely the item is to break; how much chance I’ve got to find another one; whether what’s being offered is legal insurance; and probably the direction of the wind. Deborah Stevenson

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Good Point….which is why I save all of my PO receipts….it is proof enough that the package was mailed. -Z-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One handy little form that the USPS offers and not many know about is the "certificate of mailing". It costs something like .35 cents, and is proof that the item was mailed. The buyer has no way of knowing you have this proof until you present it. I bought one of those once, just to see what it was. They ran a receipt for 35 cents, and then put a postal clerk stamp on it.  It said nothing about destination, weight, insurance, or anything else.   All that helpful info was already printed on my PO receipt. I don’t think it proves anything. Kris Of course, you’d better be able to prove you actually shipped it. I have no patience at all for "Well, I’m sure I shipped it, and you just have to take my word for it." I’ve shipped about 1,500 items in the past 2 years, almost all Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation but not insurance, and the number lost in the mail is ZERO. So I’m suspicious when a seller writes that he has packages lost in the mail all the time. And if you are choosing the carrier, presumably using one that lets you ship cheaply, then yes you do have some liability. Would "I gave it to the kid down the street to mail for me" also, in your eyes, absolve me of all liability? Hey, I put it in the hands of a carrier… Bill Turner Some sellers, particularly of less expensive items, may give a refund or replacement as a matter of goodwill. However, to answer your question, no, you have no right to expect a refund or replacement if you didn’t buy insurance.  Unless otherwise stated or agreed, purchases are FOB the seller’s location. Their duty is to deliver the item in the condition represented and properly packaged to the carrier and prepay the cost of shipment. Once it goes into the carrier’s hands the seller has no further obligation to you regarding delivery, loss or damage.  Insurance is to protect you, the buyer, from loss or damage caused by the carrier during shipment. Why should the seller be responsible for covering the carrier’s negligence? The seller has no more control over it than you. Insurance is cheap so if the item is of such a value that you’d be upset by a loss then pay the insurance fee. : Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t : that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they : have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? : : If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives : damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? : : — : Secret San Diego : San Diego’s hidden treasures : www.secretsandiego.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One handy little form that the USPS offers and not many know about is the "certificate of mailing". It costs something like .35 cents, and is proof that the item was mailed. The buyer has no way of knowing you have this proof until you present it. I bought one of those once, just to see what it was. They ran a receipt for 35 cents, and then put a postal clerk stamp on it.  It said nothing about destination, weight, insurance, or anything else.   All that helpful info was already printed on my PO receipt. I don’t think it proves anything. Kris Actually, it’s .75 now and they are not *supposed" to stamp it until you fill out the address, then they paste the CoM on it and stamp so that it overlaps the receipt and the address. Close observation would show that the stamp went on after the fact. They are also *supposed* to ensure that what you wrote on the form coincides with what’s actually written on the mailed item also. At least previously, a Certificate of Mailing was sufficient for proof to the IRS that you mailed in your tax return on time should it become lost and prevent any late fees when you had to refile. Mac (doogle) That’s completely different from what I got.    Mine was simply a receipt, which sounds exactly like what the USPS describes: "Certificate Of Mailing A certificate of mailing is a receipt showing evidence of mailing. It can be purchased only at the time of mailing. The certificate does not provide insurance coverage for loss or damage, nor does it provide proof of delivery. No record is kept at the mailing office, and a receipt is not obtained when mail is delivered to the addressee." Kris yup. That’s all it really is, but again, as far as IRS is concerned, it’s "proof" (at least my accountant says so). Just did one (actually TWO, sigh, the other day). http://www.doogle.com/misc/CertOfMail.jpg (about 1.5 real size) Didn’t want to spend any more than that on the bloodsuckers. The self- employment tax really hurts Mac (doogle

FYI, I was asking the postal clerk at my friendly, unstressed post office just yesterday about certificates of mailing — he said the IRS no longer finds it acceptable. David

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 You don’t have a postmark if someone never received the letter or the letter is otherwise unavailable, right?  If I mail a package I don’t get any sort of postmark or confirmation the package was mailed (other than a receipt) unless I get delivery confirmation.    Delivery confirmation does not prove an item was mailed;    it’s there to confirm delivery only.

  I only mentioned delivery confirmation because of your comment about getting a postmark.  All I said was I don’t "get a postmark" unless I get delivery confirmation. In your case, your company needs proof that they mailed something out. But…none of these instruments prove that the contents are what was expected.   They show that you either mailed (COM), that something was delivered (DC), or that something was signed for along the way.

  No, CoM or delivery confirmation don’t verify contents.  For that matter, certified mail doesn’t prove the contents were "what was expected", either.  No one from the post office in any of these instances verifies content of a package. All I know is that the COM I received had only a date on it, and was a receipt for 75 cents.   It proved nothing.

  The reason I posted the long explanation about our CoM experience is that, I think, your post office did something wrong.  It’s not beyond the realm of possibility – I’ve had p.o. clerks try to use certified mail when I asked for delivery confirmation, and various other problems which amounted to them not knowing much about their own services.   No matter what, CoM is proof a letter was mailed to the address specified.  I’m sorry your post office just gave you an extra receipt and nothing else.    Stacia  *  The Avocado Avenger   *  Life is a tale told by an idiot;   http://www.flinthills.com/~stacia *      Full of sound and fury,    There is no guacamole anywhere.  *        Signifying nothing.

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I hate filling out all the extra paperwork at the post office – insurance? need a separate form. Delivery confirmation (which is useless) – you need a separate form. I don’t understand why people ship with the post office. Check out Fed-Ex ground. You can sign up to get an account with them – they’ll send you pre-printed bar code labels to put on each package. With a minimal hassle factor and never a line to wait in (because your package shipping goes on account – you can just leave it with them and walk out the door) you get RELIABLE shipping tracking $100 of insurance for free If you don’t have a fed-ex customer counter near you, often mailboxes etc places will accept your package since they have fed-ex guys stopping by all the time

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI, I was asking the postal clerk at my friendly, unstressed post office just yesterday about certificates of mailing — he said the IRS no longer finds it acceptable. That’s news to me, and likely very untrue.  I work at the state headquarters of a large insurance company, my roomie works in the mail room, and we use certificates of mailing for many of our time-sensitive mails to insureds.  It’s considered proof by the Kansas Insurance Department and various government agencies, including the IRS. It’s acceptable as proof of mailing, but not acceptable as proof of delivery (per the USPS site that I quoted yesterday or so)..    But….what does it do that a postmark doesn’t?  You don’t have a postmark if someone never received the letter or the letter is otherwise unavailable, right?  If I mail a package I don’t get any sort of postmark or confirmation the package was mailed (other than a receipt) unless I get delivery confirmation.     Delivery confirmation does not prove an item was mailed;     it’s there to confirm delivery only. So if someone claims you never sent a package, with CoM or delivery confirmation or even certified mail, you have proof that you did.  As far as tracking, or if the package gets lost, I’m not sure if there is any difference in how the USPS treats CoM versus other mail. No, there’s not. In your case, your company needs proof that they mailed something out. But…none of these instruments prove that the contents are what was expected.   They show that you either mailed (COM), that something was delivered (DC), or that something was signed for along the way. All I know is that the COM I received had only a date on it, and was a receipt for 75 cents.   It proved nothing. Kris

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FYI, I was asking the postal clerk at my friendly, unstressed post office just yesterday about certificates of mailing — he said the IRS no longer finds it acceptable. That’s news to me, and likely very untrue.  I work at the state headquarters of a large insurance company, my roomie works in the mail room, and we use certificates of mailing for many of our time-sensitive mails to insureds.  It’s considered proof by the Kansas Insurance Department and various government agencies, including the IRS.

It’s acceptable as proof of mailing, but not acceptable as proof of delivery (per the USPS site that I quoted yesterday or so)..    But….what does it do that a postmark doesn’t? Kris

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<snip It’s acceptable as proof of mailing, but not acceptable as proof of delivery (per the USPS site that I quoted yesterday or so)..    But….what does it do that a postmark doesn’t? Kris

Proves that something was mailed if the recipient claims they never got it.  Not of much use for eBay, but useful on a document that is required by law to be filed by a certain date, and which is deemed to have been filed once it is mailed. Richard Ward

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI, I was asking the postal clerk at my friendly, unstressed post office just yesterday about certificates of mailing — he said the IRS no longer finds it acceptable. That’s news to me, and likely very untrue.  I work at the state headquarters of a large insurance company, my roomie works in the mail room, and we use certificates of mailing for many of our time-sensitive mails to insureds.  It’s considered proof by the Kansas Insurance Department and various government agencies, including the IRS. It’s acceptable as proof of mailing, but not acceptable as proof of delivery (per the USPS site that I quoted yesterday or so)..    But….what does it do that a postmark doesn’t?

  You don’t have a postmark if someone never received the letter or the letter is otherwise unavailable, right?  If I mail a package I don’t get any sort of postmark or confirmation the package was mailed (other than a receipt) unless I get delivery confirmation.  So if someone claims you never sent a package, with CoM or delivery confirmation or even certified mail, you have proof that you did.   As far as tracking, or if the package gets lost, I’m not sure if there is any difference in how the USPS treats CoM versus other mail.    Stacia  *  The Avocado Avenger   *  Life is a tale told by an idiot;   http://www.flinthills.com/~stacia *      Full of sound and fury,    There is no guacamole anywhere.  *        Signifying nothing.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI, I was asking the postal clerk at my friendly, unstressed post office just yesterday about certificates of mailing — he said the IRS no longer finds it acceptable. That’s news to me, and likely very untrue.  I work at the state headquarters of a large insurance company, my roomie works in the mail room, and we use certificates of mailing for many of our time-sensitive mails to insureds.  It’s considered proof by the Kansas Insurance Department and various government agencies, including the IRS. It’s acceptable as proof of mailing, but not acceptable as proof of delivery (per the USPS site that I quoted yesterday or so)..    But….what does it do that a postmark doesn’t?  You don’t have a postmark if someone never received the letter or the letter is otherwise unavailable, right?  If I mail a package I don’t get any sort of postmark or confirmation the package was mailed (other than a receipt) unless I get delivery confirmation.

    Delivery confirmation does not prove an item was mailed;     it’s there to confirm delivery only. So if someone claims you never sent a package, with CoM or delivery confirmation or even certified mail, you have proof that you did.  As far as tracking, or if the package gets lost, I’m not sure if there is any difference in how the USPS treats CoM versus other mail.

No, there’s not. In your case, your company needs proof that they mailed something out. But…none of these instruments prove that the contents are what was expected.   They show that you either mailed (COM), that something was delivered (DC), or that something was signed for along the way. All I know is that the COM I received had only a date on it, and was a receipt for 75 cents.   It proved nothing. Kris

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At least previously, a Certificate of Mailing was sufficient for proof to the IRS that you mailed in your tax return on time should it become lost and prevent any late fees when you had to refile. That’s completely different from what I got.    Mine was simply a receipt, which sounds exactly like what the USPS describes: [snip] yup. That’s all it really is, but again, as far as IRS is concerned, it’s "proof" (at least my accountant says so). Just did one (actually TWO, sigh, the other day). FYI, I was asking the postal clerk at my friendly, unstressed post office just yesterday about certificates of mailing — he said the IRS no longer finds it acceptable.

  That’s news to me, and likely very untrue.  I work at the state headquarters of a large insurance company, my roomie works in the mail room, and we use certificates of mailing for many of our time-sensitive mails to insureds.  It’s considered proof by the Kansas Insurance Department and various government agencies, including the IRS.  For most of our cancellations or notices of non-renewal, it’s sufficient.   For specific cancellations or revokations, the more serious kind (where you get your car insurance yanked because you ran over a few dozen little old ladies on purpose) you need a full-fledged certified mail receipt.  I was in word processing for a year and filled out thousands of those damned things.  I was grateful when many property policy cancellations went to certificate of mailing instead.   The mails which are CoM are run through the mailroom inserter and given postage – our bulk pre-sort rate is 26.5 cents.  After that the people in the mailroom verify each piece of mail from a list (this is what I used to do in word processing, type up the letters and send them to processing, where they would compile a list of all the letters to be mailed CoM.)   When verified, the list and the letters are taken via courier to the post office, where they count and verify the letters again, add extra postage to pay for CoM, and give us a list of that day’s verified mailings.  The list is kept and if there is a question as to whether the letter went out or not, the list is all the proof needed that a letter was indeed mailed. I know from typing up recorded statements for subrogation and arbitration that these CoM lists are considered proof in a court of law, as well.   As for proof the letter was *received* – that’s why they used certified mail. You get the proof it was mailed *and* received, or refused, or whatever.    Stacia  *  The Avocado Avenger   *  Life is a tale told by an idiot;   http://www.flinthills.com/~stacia *      Full of sound and fury,    There is no guacamole anywhere.  *        Signifying nothing.

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<some snippage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s completely different from what I got.    Mine was simply a receipt, which sounds exactly like what the USPS describes: "Certificate Of Mailing A certificate of mailing is a receipt showing evidence of mailing. It can be purchased only at the time of mailing. The certificate does not provide insurance coverage for loss or damage, nor does it provide proof of delivery. No record is kept at the mailing office, and a receipt is not obtained when mail is delivered to the addressee." Kris yup. That’s all it really is, but again, as far as IRS is concerned, it’s "proof" (at least my accountant says so). Just did one (actually TWO, sigh, the other day). http://www.doogle.com/misc/CertOfMail.jpg (about 1.5 real size) Didn’t want to spend any more than that on the bloodsuckers. The self- employment tax really hurts Mac (doogle FYI, I was asking the postal clerk at my friendly, unstressed post office just yesterday about certificates of mailing — he said the IRS no longer finds it acceptable. David

He might be right, but I’d take any statement from any one PO clerk with a large grain of salt. I’m certainly not worried about my two IRS mailings. When you owe THEM money, mail is *never* lost! —         Mac (doogle)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One handy little form that the USPS offers and not many know about is the "certificate of mailing". It costs something like .35 cents, and is proof that the item was mailed. The buyer has no way of knowing you have this proof until you present it. I bought one of those once, just to see what it was. They ran a receipt for 35 cents, and then put a postal clerk stamp on it.  It said nothing about destination, weight, insurance, or anything else.   All that helpful info was already printed on my PO receipt. I don’t think it proves anything. Kris Actually, it’s .75 now and they are not *supposed" to stamp it until you fill out the address, then they paste the CoM on it and stamp so that it overlaps the receipt and the address. Close observation would show that the stamp went on after the fact. They are also *supposed* to ensure that what you wrote on the form coincides with what’s actually written on the mailed item also. At least previously, a Certificate of Mailing was sufficient for proof to the IRS that you mailed in your tax return on time should it become lost and prevent any late fees when you had to refile. Mac (doogle) That’s completely different from what I got.    Mine was simply a receipt, which sounds exactly like what the USPS describes: "Certificate Of Mailing A certificate of mailing is a receipt showing evidence of mailing. It can be purchased only at the time of mailing. The certificate does not provide insurance coverage for loss or damage, nor does it provide proof of delivery. No record is kept at the mailing office, and a receipt is not obtained when mail is delivered to the addressee." Kris

yup. That’s all it really is, but again, as far as IRS is concerned, it’s "proof" (at least my accountant says so). Just did one (actually TWO, sigh, the other day). http://www.doogle.com/misc/CertOfMail.jpg (about 1.5 real size) Didn’t want to spend any more than that on the bloodsuckers. The self- employment tax really hurts Mac (doogle

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One handy little form that the USPS offers and not many know about is the "certificate of mailing". It costs something like .35 cents, and is proof that the item was mailed. The buyer has no way of knowing you have this proof until you present it. I bought one of those once, just to see what it was. They ran a receipt for 35 cents, and then put a postal clerk stamp on it.  It said nothing about destination, weight, insurance, or anything else.   All that helpful info was already printed on my PO receipt. I don’t think it proves anything. Kris Actually, it’s .75 now and they are not *supposed" to stamp it until you fill out the address, then they paste the CoM on it and stamp so that it overlaps the receipt and the address. Close observation would show that the stamp went on after the fact. They are also *supposed* to ensure that what you wrote on the form coincides with what’s actually written on the mailed item also. At least previously, a Certificate of Mailing was sufficient for proof to the IRS that you mailed in your tax return on time should it become lost and prevent any late fees when you had to refile. Mac (doogle)

That’s completely different from what I got.    Mine was simply a receipt, which sounds exactly like what the USPS describes: "Certificate Of Mailing A certificate of mailing is a receipt showing evidence of mailing. It can be purchased only at the time of mailing. The certificate does not provide insurance coverage for loss or damage, nor does it provide proof of delivery. No record is kept at the mailing office, and a receipt is not obtained when mail is delivered to the addressee." Kris

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One handy little form that the USPS offers and not many know about is the "certificate of mailing". It costs something like .35 cents, and is proof that the item was mailed. The buyer has no way of knowing you have this proof until you present it. I bought one of those once, just to see what it was. They ran a receipt for 35 cents, and then put a postal clerk stamp on it.  It said nothing about destination, weight, insurance, or anything else.   All that helpful info was already printed on my PO receipt. I don’t think it proves anything. Kris

Actually, it’s .75 now and they are not *supposed" to stamp it until you fill out the address, then they paste the CoM on it and stamp so that it overlaps the receipt and the address. Close observation would show that the stamp went on after the fact. They are also *supposed* to ensure that what you wrote on the form coincides with what’s actually written on the mailed item also. At least previously, a Certificate of Mailing was sufficient for proof to the IRS that you mailed in your tax return on time should it become lost and prevent any late fees when you had to refile. Mac (doogle)

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One handy little form that the USPS offers and not many know about is the "certificate of mailing". It costs something like .35 cents, and is proof that the item was mailed. The buyer has no way of knowing you have this proof until you present it.

I bought one of those once, just to see what it was. They ran a receipt for 35 cents, and then put a postal clerk stamp on it.  It said nothing about destination, weight, insurance, or anything else.   All that helpful info was already printed on my PO receipt. I don’t think it proves anything. Kris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, you’d better be able to prove you actually shipped it. I have no patience at all for "Well, I’m sure I shipped it, and you just have to take my word for it." I’ve shipped about 1,500 items in the past 2 years, almost all Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation but not insurance, and the number lost in the mail is ZERO. So I’m suspicious when a seller writes that he has packages lost in the mail all the time. And if you are choosing the carrier, presumably using one that lets you ship cheaply, then yes you do have some liability. Would "I gave it to the kid down the street to mail for me" also, in your eyes, absolve me of all liability? Hey, I put it in the hands of a carrier… Bill Turner Some sellers, particularly of less expensive items, may give a refund or replacement as a matter of goodwill. However, to answer your question, no, you have no right to expect a refund or replacement if you didn’t buy insurance.  Unless otherwise stated or agreed, purchases are FOB the seller’s location. Their duty is to deliver the item in the condition represented and properly packaged to the carrier and prepay the cost of shipment. Once it goes into the carrier’s hands the seller has no further obligation to you regarding delivery, loss or damage.  Insurance is to protect you, the buyer, from loss or damage caused by the carrier during shipment. Why should the seller be responsible for covering the carrier’s negligence? The seller has no more control over it than you. Insurance is cheap so if the item is of such a value that you’d be upset by a loss then pay the insurance fee. : Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t : that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they : have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? : : If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives : damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? : : — : Secret San Diego : San Diego’s hidden treasures : www.secretsandiego.com

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One handy little form that the USPS offers and not many know about is the "certificate of mailing". It costs something like .35 cents, and is proof that the item was mailed. The buyer has no way of knowing you have this proof until you present it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Of course, you’d better be able to prove you actually shipped it. I have no patience at all for "Well, I’m sure I shipped it, and you just have to take my word for it." I’ve shipped about 1,500 items in the past 2 years, almost all Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation but not insurance, and the number lost in the mail is ZERO. So I’m suspicious when a seller writes that he has packages lost in the mail all the time. And if you are choosing the carrier, presumably using one that lets you ship cheaply, then yes you do have some liability. Would "I gave it to the kid down the street to mail for me" also, in your eyes, absolve me of all liability? Hey, I put it in the hands of a carrier… Bill Turner Some sellers, particularly of less expensive items, may give a refund or replacement as a matter of goodwill. However, to answer your question, no, you have no right to expect a refund or replacement if you didn’t buy insurance.  Unless otherwise stated or agreed, purchases are FOB the seller’s location. Their duty is to deliver the item in the condition represented and properly packaged to the carrier and prepay the cost of shipment. Once it goes into the carrier’s hands the seller has no further obligation to you regarding delivery, loss or damage.  Insurance is to protect you, the buyer, from loss or damage caused by the carrier during shipment. Why should the seller be responsible for covering the carrier’s negligence? The seller has no more control over it than you. Insurance is cheap so if the item is of such a value that you’d be upset by a loss then pay the insurance fee. : Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t : that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they : have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? : : If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives : damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? : : — : Secret San Diego : San Diego’s hidden treasures : www.secretsandiego.com

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Keep the USPS receipts….they have the zip code and date right on it.  This would be proof enough.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, you’d better be able to prove you actually shipped it. I have no patience at all for "Well, I’m sure I shipped it, and you just have to take my word for it." I’ve shipped about 1,500 items in the past 2 years, almost all Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation but not insurance, and the number lost in the mail is ZERO. So I’m suspicious when a seller writes that he has packages lost in the mail all the time. And if you are choosing the carrier, presumably using one that lets you ship cheaply, then yes you do have some liability. Would "I gave it to the kid down the street to mail for me" also, in your eyes, absolve me of all liability? Hey, I put it in the hands of a carrier… Bill Turner Some sellers, particularly of less expensive items, may give a refund or replacement as a matter of goodwill. However, to answer your question, no, you have no right to expect a refund or replacement if you didn’t buy insurance.  Unless otherwise stated or agreed, purchases are FOB the seller’s location. Their duty is to deliver the item in the condition represented and properly packaged to the carrier and prepay the cost of shipment. Once it goes into the carrier’s hands the seller has no further obligation to you regarding delivery, loss or damage.  Insurance is to protect you, the buyer, from loss or damage caused by the carrier during shipment. Why should the seller be responsible for covering the carrier’s negligence? The seller has no more control over it than you. Insurance is cheap so if the item is of such a value that you’d be upset by a loss then pay the insurance fee. : Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t : that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they : have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? : : If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives : damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? : : — : Secret San Diego : San Diego’s hidden treasures : www.secretsandiego.com

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Bill, when I said "carrier" I meant it in the sense of a licensed delivery company such as the USPS, UPS, Fedex, Airborne, etc.  Certainly handing it to a kid to drop in the mail would not qualify. Since Delivery Confirmation is free with Priority Mail (if you use the online label) there’s really no excuse not to use it.

: Of course, you’d better be able to prove you actually shipped it. I have : no patience at all for "Well, I’m sure I shipped it, and you just have : to : take my word for it." : : I’ve shipped about 1,500 items in the past 2 years, almost all Priority : Mail : with Delivery Confirmation but not insurance, and the number lost in the : mail : is ZERO. So I’m suspicious when a seller writes that he has packages : lost in : the mail all the time. And if you are choosing the carrier, presumably : using : one that lets you ship cheaply, then yes you do have some liability. : Would : "I gave it to the kid down the street to mail for me" also, in your : eyes, : absolve me of all liability? Hey, I put it in the hands of a carrier… : : Bill Turner :

: : Some sellers, particularly of less expensive items, may give a refund or : replacement as a matter of goodwill. However, to answer your question, no, : you have no right to expect a refund or replacement if you didn’t buy : insurance.  Unless otherwise stated or agreed, purchases are FOB the : seller’s location. Their duty is to deliver the item in the condition : represented and properly packaged to the carrier and prepay the cost of : shipment. Once it goes into the carrier’s hands the seller has no further : obligation to you regarding delivery, loss or damage.  Insurance is to : protect you, the buyer, from loss or damage caused by the carrier during : shipment. Why should the seller be responsible for covering the carrier’s : negligence? The seller has no more control over it than you. Insurance is : cheap so if the item is of such a value that you’d be upset by a loss then : pay the insurance fee. : : : Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t : : that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t : they : : have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? : : : : If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it : arrives : : damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? : : : : — : : Secret San Diego : : San Diego’s hidden treasures : : www.secretsandiego.com

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I ship most everything UPS Ground so insurance is included in the shipping.

As is tracking. It is UNTHINKABLE to ship without tracking. Among other benefits, tracking gives the "is it here yet?" types something to do with their spare time. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund?

Insuring an item and collecting on a claim are two different things. Consider the value of the item. For a $5 item it might not be worth the trouble filing a claim. And the minimum USPS $1.10 represents a high percentage of item value.

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Of course, you’d better be able to prove you actually shipped it. I have no patience at all for "Well, I’m sure I shipped it, and you just have to take my word for it." I’ve shipped about 1,500 items in the past 2 years, almost all Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation but not insurance, and the number lost in the mail is ZERO. So I’m suspicious when a seller writes that he has packages lost in the mail all the time. And if you are choosing the carrier, presumably using one that lets you ship cheaply, then yes you do have some liability. Would "I gave it to the kid down the street to mail for me" also, in your eyes, absolve me of all liability? Hey, I put it in the hands of a carrier… Bill Turner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some sellers, particularly of less expensive items, may give a refund or replacement as a matter of goodwill. However, to answer your question, no, you have no right to expect a refund or replacement if you didn’t buy insurance.  Unless otherwise stated or agreed, purchases are FOB the seller’s location. Their duty is to deliver the item in the condition represented and properly packaged to the carrier and prepay the cost of shipment. Once it goes into the carrier’s hands the seller has no further obligation to you regarding delivery, loss or damage.  Insurance is to protect you, the buyer, from loss or damage caused by the carrier during shipment. Why should the seller be responsible for covering the carrier’s negligence? The seller has no more control over it than you. Insurance is cheap so if the item is of such a value that you’d be upset by a loss then pay the insurance fee. : Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t : that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they : have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? : : If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives : damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? : : — : Secret San Diego : San Diego’s hidden treasures : www.secretsandiego.com

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Some sellers, particularly of less expensive items, may give a refund or replacement as a matter of goodwill. However, to answer your question, no, you have no right to expect a refund or replacement if you didn’t buy insurance.  Unless otherwise stated or agreed, purchases are FOB the seller’s location. Their duty is to deliver the item in the condition represented and properly packaged to the carrier and prepay the cost of shipment. Once it goes into the carrier’s hands the seller has no further obligation to you regarding delivery, loss or damage.  Insurance is to protect you, the buyer, from loss or damage caused by the carrier during shipment. Why should the seller be responsible for covering the carrier’s negligence? The seller has no more control over it than you. Insurance is cheap so if the item is of such a value that you’d be upset by a loss then pay the insurance fee. : Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t : that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they : have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? : : If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives : damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? : : — : Secret San Diego : San Diego’s hidden treasures : www.secretsandiego.com : . : :

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Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? — Secret San Diego San Diego’s hidden treasures www.secretsandiego.com

You’re from my home town, cool! To some people, insurance is like betting (I don’t like to bet, so I LIKE insurance.) We don’t offer insurance already built into our s/h charges for 2 reasons: 1) it does raise the price $1.10 – someone pays $6.99 for a CD, $2.25 s/h, they’re likely not interested in an additional $1.10 insurance 2) On a $6.99 CD that we have a fair amount in stock of, it’s cheaper for us to replace it, than the time and effort it takes to insure something that low cost. On all orders over $20.00 we automatically pay for insurance – we’ve had too many items go missing via USPS. I can’t say for anyone else, but if something comes up missing or damaged in transit that isn’t insured (even though it doesn’t say anything in our fine print) we give the customer a full refund.                         Carol

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I ship most everything UPS Ground so insurance is included in the shipping. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? — Secret San Diego San Diego’s hidden treasures www.secretsandiego.com .

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Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? — Secret San Diego San Diego’s hidden treasures www.secretsandiego.com .

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Why is it that most sellers offer insurance as an extra charge? Why isn’t that already part of the quoted charge for shipping and handling? Don’t they have an obligation to deliver the item in good condition? If I don’t pay extra for insurance and the item doesn’t arrive or it arrives damaged in shipping, what happens then? Can I expect a refund? — Secret San Diego

Because insurance cost is variable depending on final price of item. I sell some stuff now and then that might go for under 50, over 50, even over 100 or 200 bucks. I offer insurance on most all my items. For items I expect to reach around 40-50 bucks or more, generally mandatory, and stated in auction terms. If it’s optional, and you don’t choose to pay it, then no, I wouldn’t necessarily refund. —         Mac (doogle)

Response:

    What do you do if the item is LOST? Jack Cankle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to this board and really find a lot of useful information and some good laughs. On this insurance subject. I put a blurb in mine about shipping is blah blah and insurance is .85. If you dont pay the insurance and it is lost I am not responsible. I have usually still give refunds to people that dont and it gets lost or send them another stamp.  (whichever is cheaper) Anyway… I was wondering on the insurance green slip it says you must show the green slip and the damaged package. Is that right or how would you go about claiming the insurance. Sorry if this is a dumb question but I was just wondering in case I ever had to actually do it. I am writing from work so this is not my ebay id. I am vandecar if you care. Thanks Nicole I put insurance on all the items I ship. Period. Since I ship primarily USPS Priority Mail and most of the items I ship are less than $50 that comes in around .80 for each item. It’s a toss up. I tried some auctions of movie trailers and left the insurance off and had alot of people put extra in to cover insurance. If you leave the insurance off, even by their request, and the item gets lost they still will think you stiffed them. So all my stuff goes out with insurance and delivery confirmation. I’ve only had two items that required an insurance claim, both statues, one broken and one lost. Each was close to $250 and I was glad I had insurance on them. Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

Hi,     I charge people $1.50 for shipping, handling AND insurance. That way I don’t have to worry.     I was selling ticket stubs for awhile. One of the postal workers said they can’t insure envelopes. I told her there was merchandise in there – she HAD to check with her supervisor, but you can do it.     If I sell a stub for $10, can I insure it for $20? I know the 85 cent fee goes up to a $50 value. Jack C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

The shipper files a claim with the post office, they check the post office the package was supposed to be delivered out of, and if they can’t find the package they pay on the claim.  You do have to wait 30 days before you can file for a lost package though, even if it was sent priority mail.  (That part sounds a little ridiculous to me, but on one package the buyer claimed not to have received (before she found the slip left by the post office when they attempted delivery) that’s what the post office told me. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     What do you do if the item is LOST? Jack Cankle I am new to this board and really find a lot of useful information and some good laughs. On this insurance subject. I put a blurb in mine about shipping is blah blah and insurance is .85. If you dont pay the insurance and it is lost I am not responsible. I have usually still give refunds to people that dont and it gets lost or send them another stamp.  (whichever is cheaper) Anyway… I was wondering on the insurance green slip it says you must show the green slip and the damaged package. Is that right or how would you go about claiming the insurance. Sorry if this is a dumb question but I was just wondering in case I ever had to actually do it. I am writing from work so this is not my ebay id. I am vandecar if you care. Thanks Nicole I put insurance on all the items I ship. Period. Since I ship primarily USPS Priority Mail and most of the items I ship are less than $50 that comes in around .80 for each item. It’s a toss up. I tried some auctions of movie trailers and left the insurance off and had alot of people put extra in to cover insurance. If you leave the insurance off, even by their request, and the item gets lost they still will think you stiffed them. So all my stuff goes out with insurance and delivery confirmation. I’ve only had two items that required an insurance claim, both statues, one broken and one lost. Each was close to $250 and I was glad I had insurance on them. Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

You can insure the $10 item for any value you wish, but the Post Office will only pay off on the value of the item lost or damaged, regardless of the insurance purchased.  I guess if it’s lost, this might be hard for them to prove, but they do ask for proof of value on damaged items. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     I charge people $1.50 for shipping, handling AND insurance. That way I don’t have to worry.     I was selling ticket stubs for awhile. One of the postal workers said they can’t insure envelopes. I told her there was merchandise in there – she HAD to check with her supervisor, but you can do it.     If I sell a stub for $10, can I insure it for $20? I know the 85 cent fee goes up to a $50 value. Jack C. Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

what do you (and anyone else who cares to comment) think of my text re; shipping in one auction (the only one) it’s mid text body -normal size, I have "As buyer is paying shipping, methods are up to buyer,  but I can make suggestions based on location. " and lower, in red, and bigger "-shipping calculations, my zipcode is 08226 weight- 10 lbs Ups charges, ground in lower 48 should be less than 12$ priority mail, (3 dayish delivery) 7$-15.25 buyer pays EXACT shipping charge- no fee from me " actually, if anyone wants to perform some constructive criticism http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=272546532

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I include insurance in the shipping charges on almost all my auctions. I just state up front "Winning bidder to pay $5.15 for shipping and insurance" or whatever the amount will be. It’s just easier to deal with, and you don’t have the possibility of a misunderstanding if something is lost or damaged. Richard Ward Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

I include insurance in the shipping charges on almost all my auctions. I just state up front "Winning bidder to pay $5.15 for shipping and insurance" or whatever the amount will be. It’s just easier to deal with, and you don’t have the possibility of a misunderstanding if something is lost or damaged. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

vandecar again… from home this time. I sometimes wonder if people didnt actually get the packages myself. There seems to be a lot of lost mail or the post office just really bites.  But UPS is just too expensive the stuff I am sending. Most of the postage is only around 77 cents. Nicole – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yep, you have to have your green insurance receipt. You then fill out a form with all the details of shipping, who you sent it to, what your address is, description of item, proof of value (I usually have a copy of my email receipt I send to the buyer, a copy of the final Ebay auction page with the description and photo and a copy of the check or money order). They then send it to the recipients post office for investigation. Sometimes reimbursement can take as long as 3 months. The first time this happened I requested the check be sent to the buyer but they took so long I reimbursed him out of pocket. Of course the check arrived the next week and he refunded the amount to me. The second time I also had the payment made to the buyer but for some reason they sent it to me. That time everything took a long time and the buyer was ticked off at me. Demanded payment NOW, etc. He had a comic book shop and the package went there so I couldn’t be sure that he, or someone that worked for him, didn’t just claim it hadn’t arrived and was trying to scam me. I told him ONLY after the P.O. had investigated it would he receive the refund. The only time I was ever seriously ripped off was from another comic book dealer. I learned my lesson. I am new to this board and really find a lot of useful information and some good laughs. On this insurance subject. I put a blurb in mine about shipping is blah blah and insurance is .85. If you dont pay the insurance and it is lost I am not responsible. I have usually still give refunds to people that dont and it gets lost or send them another stamp.  (whichever is cheaper) Anyway… I was wondering on the insurance green slip it says you must show the green slip and the damaged package. Is that right or how would you go about claiming the insurance. Sorry if this is a dumb question but I was just wondering in case I ever had to actually do it. I am writing from work so this is not my ebay id. I am vandecar if you care. Thanks Nicole I put insurance on all the items I ship. Period. Since I ship primarily USPS Priority Mail and most of the items I ship are less than $50 that comes in around .80 for each item. It’s a toss up. I tried some auctions of movie trailers and left the insurance off and had alot of people put extra in to cover insurance. If you leave the insurance off, even by their request, and the item gets lost they still will think you stiffed them. So all my stuff goes out with insurance and delivery confirmation. I’ve only had two items that required an insurance claim, both statues, one broken and one lost. Each was close to $250 and I was glad I had insurance on them. Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

yes yes yes i will not ship without it for the 85 cents on items under 50.00 and just a little more for items above that yes it is not wise to do otherwise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

Yep, you have to have your green insurance receipt. You then fill out a form with all the details of shipping, who you sent it to, what your address is, description of item, proof of value (I usually have a copy of my email receipt I send to the buyer, a copy of the final Ebay auction page with the description and photo and a copy of the check or money order). They then send it to the recipients post office for investigation. Sometimes reimbursement can take as long as 3 months. The first time this happened I requested the check be sent to the buyer but they took so long I reimbursed him out of pocket. Of course the check arrived the next week and he refunded the amount to me. The second time I also had the payment made to the buyer but for some reason they sent it to me. That time everything took a long time and the buyer was ticked off at me. Demanded payment NOW, etc. He had a comic book shop and the package went there so I couldn’t be sure that he, or someone that worked for him, didn’t just claim it hadn’t arrived and was trying to scam me. I told him ONLY after the P.O. had investigated it would he receive the refund. The only time I was ever seriously ripped off was from another comic book dealer. I learned my lesson. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to this board and really find a lot of useful information and some good laughs. On this insurance subject. I put a blurb in mine about shipping is blah blah and insurance is .85. If you dont pay the insurance and it is lost I am not responsible. I have usually still give refunds to people that dont and it gets lost or send them another stamp.  (whichever is cheaper) Anyway… I was wondering on the insurance green slip it says you must show the green slip and the damaged package. Is that right or how would you go about claiming the insurance. Sorry if this is a dumb question but I was just wondering in case I ever had to actually do it. I am writing from work so this is not my ebay id. I am vandecar if you care. Thanks Nicole I put insurance on all the items I ship. Period. Since I ship primarily USPS Priority Mail and most of the items I ship are less than $50 that comes in around .80 for each item. It’s a toss up. I tried some auctions of movie trailers and left the insurance off and had alot of people put extra in to cover insurance. If you leave the insurance off, even by their request, and the item gets lost they still will think you stiffed them. So all my stuff goes out with insurance and delivery confirmation. I’ve only had two items that required an insurance claim, both statues, one broken and one lost. Each was close to $250 and I was glad I had insurance on them. Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

I am new to this board and really find a lot of useful information and some good laughs. On this insurance subject. I put a blurb in mine about shipping is blah blah and insurance is .85. If you dont pay the insurance and it is lost I am not responsible. I have usually still give refunds to people that dont and it gets lost or send them another stamp.  (whichever is cheaper) Anyway… I was wondering on the insurance green slip it says you must show the green slip and the damaged package. Is that right or how would you go about claiming the insurance. Sorry if this is a dumb question but I was just wondering in case I ever had to actually do it. I am writing from work so this is not my ebay id. I am vandecar if you care. Thanks Nicole – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I put insurance on all the items I ship. Period. Since I ship primarily USPS Priority Mail and most of the items I ship are less than $50 that comes in around .80 for each item. It’s a toss up. I tried some auctions of movie trailers and left the insurance off and had alot of people put extra in to cover insurance. If you leave the insurance off, even by their request, and the item gets lost they still will think you stiffed them. So all my stuff goes out with insurance and delivery confirmation. I’ve only had two items that required an insurance claim, both statues, one broken and one lost. Each was close to $250 and I was glad I had insurance on them. Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was

I pay that 85 cents. It’s worth the piece of mind I get & I sleep much better. All for 85 cents Even for a $5 item I would do it, I just add it to what I say shipping is in the ad.

Response:

I put insurance on all the items I ship. Period. Since I ship primarily USPS Priority Mail and most of the items I ship are less than $50 that comes in around .80 for each item. It’s a toss up. I tried some auctions of movie trailers and left the insurance off and had alot of people put extra in to cover insurance. If you leave the insurance off, even by their request, and the item gets lost they still will think you stiffed them. So all my stuff goes out with insurance and delivery confirmation. I’ve only had two items that required an insurance claim, both statues, one broken and one lost. Each was close to $250 and I was glad I had insurance on them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

You should put a line in your blab to the buyer like this: (Note: You can register or insure this parcel, but this costs extra — please inquire for details. I accept no liability for lost parcels which are not registered or insured.)

Response:

Just had the USPS lose a $25. item I sold. I didn’t insure it, but I did pay for a delivery confirmation receipt. Problem is item was sent to a PO box,all it says when you look up the confirmation number is that it was delivered to Mobile,Al 36605(meaning the post office) on 2/17. The buyer never got a slip in his box to pick up package,postal workers looked all over,can’t find a trace of it. Question I have,should the seller INSIST the buyer pay for insurance? Should I have just figured it in with the shipping and not even mentioned it? If I would have bought insurance,would I be making the claim,or sending the slip to the buyer to make the claim? This is the first item lost in over 30 transactions,so it is not a big deal. In fact,the buyer has been so good about it,I am going to refund the cost of the item,not that I have to,I want to. I am just wondering what others do about insurance,thanks.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at some watches and the seller is charging $2.00 insurance Now what exactly does this mean? Is she adding a charge onto USPS insurance? What type of insurance is she charging for? I also find it so very odd that as as seller she wants you to be very prompt in the payment but then take a  look down at her shipping info and how she is not in a hurry. I wrote her and asked her about the watch and what Karat Gold it is. No reply yet. You should have also asked her your insurance questions, as she is the only one that can answer that question properly. jim menning

Yes I should have,but when I wrote her to ask about the karat, I had forgotten to ask about the shipping insurance. Thanks Hannah

Response:

I was looking at some watches and the seller is charging $2.00 insurance Now what exactly does this mean? Is she adding a charge onto USPS insurance?

You’d have to ask the seller what it means.  AFAIK, there’s no USPS insurance charge of exactly $2, but there are private insurers, whose rates I don’t know. I also find it so very odd that as as seller she wants you to be very prompt in the payment but then take a  look down at her shipping info and how she is not in a hurry. I wrote her and asked her about the watch and waht Karat Gold it is. No reply yet.

I haven’t even looked at the referenced auction, but this sounds like too many things rubbing you wrong here to make this item worth pursuing. Looking at the auction, I’m not that thrilled about her poor feedback rating, but it seems to be a situation that’s improved considerably from a very bad start.  I would simply not pay the optional insurance fee and I’d only bid based on how attractive I thought the watch was, not the value of the gold.  And in general if I have the kind of wary reaction you’re having, I don’t tend to bid, as it means I’m likely to get cranky quicker if normal turbulence occurs and I’m almost certainly going to find an item I like better anyway. — Deborah Stevenson [eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at some watches and the seller is charging $2.00 insurance Now what exactly does this mean? Is she adding a charge onto USPS insurance? You’d have to ask the seller what it means.  AFAIK, there’s no USPS insurance charge of exactly $2, but there are private insurers, whose rates I don’t know. I also find it so very odd that as as seller she wants you to be very prompt in the payment but then take a  look down at her shipping info and how she is not in a hurry. I wrote her and asked her about the watch and waht Karat Gold it is. No reply yet. I haven’t even looked at the referenced auction, but this sounds like too many things rubbing you wrong here to make this item worth pursuing. Looking at the auction, I’m not that thrilled about her poor feedback rating, but it seems to be a situation that’s improved considerably from a very bad start.  I would simply not pay the optional insurance fee and I’d only bid based on how attractive I thought the watch was, not the value of the gold.  And in general if I have the kind of wary reaction you’re having, I don’t tend to bid, as it means I’m likely to get cranky quicker if normal turbulence occurs and I’m almost certainly going to find an item I like better anyway.

Deborah, My feelings as well. I still never got a reply, and I have also stopped watching the auction, as I found a watch I like much more, the watch is 14 K ,the seller had everything about  the item right on his page, and he ships prioirty mail and the insurance is what I am used to at $1.30 $2.20 etc. Myself I like it when you do not have to email a seller for measurements, descriptions shipping etc. I also want my items to be shipped ASAP, as I pay that way as well. So this seller is not for me. Thanks for your input. Hannah .

Response:

I was looking at some watches and the seller is charging $2.00 insurance Now what exactly does this mean? Is she adding a charge onto USPS insurance? What type of insurance is she charging for? I also find it so very odd that as as seller she wants you to be very prompt in the payment but then take a  look down at her shipping info and how she is not in a hurry. I wrote her and asked her about the watch and waht Karat Gold it is. No reply yet. Thanks Hannah http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3940&item=…

Response:

I was looking at some watches and the seller is charging $2.00 insurance Now what exactly does this mean? Is she adding a charge onto USPS insurance? What type of insurance is she charging for?

i would assume it is for the standard insurance that USPS is offering. for specifics on this, check www.usps.com sid

Response:

I was looking at some watches and the seller is charging $2.00 insurance Now what exactly does this mean? Is she adding a charge onto USPS insurance? What type of insurance is she charging for? I also find it so very odd that as as seller she wants you to be very prompt in the payment but then take a  look down at her shipping info and how she is not in a hurry. I wrote her and asked her about the watch and waht Karat Gold it is. No reply yet.

You should have also asked her your insurance questions, as she is the only one that can answer that question properly. jim menning

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at some watches and the seller is charging $2.00 insurance Now what exactly does this mean? Is she adding a charge onto USPS insurance? What type of insurance is she charging for? i would assume it is for the standard insurance that USPS is offering. for specifics on this, check www.usps.com sid

One thing you’ll learn here is that you can’t assume anything.  There are lots of debates here as to what the word "insurance" means, but the only meaning that applies in this case is the definition by the seller.  The only way to know for sure is to ask the person offering it. jim menning

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just a quick note.  After ranting and raving for 2 days with UPS, they changed all the accounts that were calling in to on demand. I take it that means you now pay weekly pickup charges? I would not be surprised if in the near future you hear that UPS bought FedEx and the only shipping router we will have is UPS and USPS. I would: 1)  Federal Excess is already in bed with USPS, last I heard. 2) They’d have to change their name to Fed-UPS. — My school colors were clear. We used to say, "I’m not naked, I’m in the band."

Oh that’s funny.  I have done a little exploring in rates UPS VS USPS East Coast to West coast.  4 lb box.  Used to be UPS was the way to go.  We do most of our shipping via USPS because its mostly small things less than a pound. Box to Washington State from NC Priority mail with .75 that we charge for our time and labels10.35.  UPS  10.07 counter rate.  (since that is what they are charging us now). UPS will take 7 workdays to deliver this ground package.  Priority mail will get there in 3 to 5 days.  ( I have those figures written down on a desk pad with everything else and did not write down if I figured in Insurance or not for the USPS). Unless you ship out a lot of packages to offset the weekly charge that you will incur being a shipper then its not going to be worth the loss, even if you want to call it cost of business.   Now this is strictly talking ebaY specific. If you ship out minimum with UPS those charges could add up to $64.00 a month.  Now one must be able to work that into the cost of the items. Since we are casual shippers at this time with UPS its not cost effective for us to pay the weekly charge. My complaint was not the charges or even the price increase.  It was the way it was communicated. NOT.  Hence the sneaky part. Wouldn’t be so bad if you knew that the fuel surcharge would go away when the gas prices dropped at or below what it was when they enacted it.  But that won’t happen until there is a class action suit brought against them. Not explaining to those who we being allowed to call in for pickups that they were going to be charged a higher rate than what they have been charging is a problem. Communication is my complaint.  Other than that I have always had good service out of UPS.  It was an option that was viable for our customers and we could offer it.  The difference in the shipping rates now makes it a toss up. Now you have to decide is it worth spending the extra time to figure shipping out several different ways for the customer or just give them one choice. As far as customer service is concerned giving them a choice has always worked for us.  Little more effort on our part to make the sale but that’s what its all about. As far as going to the post office or not, well sometimes its the only outing we get away from the office, if you know what I mean : )  Fresh air is always good for the soul. Deb

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Jesus, where do you people live that there are so many of you complaining about "long lines" at the USPS ?  I go to my post office every day during the week and I have never seen more than 3-4 people in there at once.  Most of the time I’m the only one.  No, I don’t live in East Bumf***.

Agreed, I know there are Post Offices in my area that are busy, but it is a matter of timing.  I know of about three I can go to that are vacant between 9 and 11am, and again between 2 and 4 pm.  There are also Post Office satellites in our grocery stores.  I guess it would depend on *what* you were shipping, as to ease of access and wait times. I love Stamps.com, too, but I am a stock holder – so I would be just shilling for the stock price if I gushed… Robb

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It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the Since ebay, more people are using USPS.  And their cost of fuel has gone up considerably.

Fred, I was with you all the way up until your statement above. "Most people use USPS."??????? There are what, 30 million some odd people on eBay a day. I don’t have a clue how many actual closings there are a day, but it has to be in the millions. Could you please site a link to backup your claim. OTOH, lets say you are right. If that’s the case,  then why in the hell did USPS raise their rates! Because they can, and they, or no company for that matter, gives a damn about consumers. They haven’t for a long time. But, back to UPS. We are not just talking eBay here. How about Amazon, buy.com, ubid, walmart.com and on and on of literally thousands of major online retailers. Not to mention Dell and places like that who must spend 100’s of thousands a week in shipping costs. This is just internet business, that wasn’t around 6 or 7 years ago. No sir, UPS’s business has got to be through the friggin roof! To even argue this point is ludicrous. And to blame it on a ‘fuel’ surcharge is just a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The greedy multi-million dollar executives just wanted to line their pockets with more money. I hope this backfires on them big time. In the meantime, I am going to pass the costs onto my customers first. See how the auctions go. If nothing changes, I will stick with UPS <for now At the same time, I am going to be looking for an alternate carrier, and if that carrier is reasonable, the UPS is history. I have an account with Airborne, I used them a few times to ship to Latvia. It’s time to look at them a little harder.

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source: Flogodino – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the Since ebay, more people are using USPS.  And their cost of fuel has gone up considerably. Fred, I was with you all the way up until your statement above. "Most people use USPS."??????? There are what, 30 million some odd people on eBay a day. I don’t have a clue how many actual closings there are a day, but it has to be in the millions. Could you please site a link to backup your claim. OTOH, lets say you are right. If that’s the case,  then why in the hell did USPS raise their rates! Because they can, and they, or no company for that matter, gives a damn about consumers. They haven’t for a long time.

He said "More people use USPS."  Visit auctions randomly.  If you pick out a true random sample, I agree with Fredd… you’ll find that there are a lot of people who use the USPS. But, back to UPS. We are not just talking eBay here. How about Amazon, buy.com, ubid, walmart.com and on and on of literally thousands of major online retailers. Not to mention Dell and places like that who must spend 100’s of thousands a week in shipping costs. This is just internet business, that wasn’t around 6 or 7 years ago. No sir, UPS’s business has got to be through the friggin roof! To even argue this point is ludicrous.

Right, to argue it would be ludicrious, because I know that Amazon uses USPS. And to blame it on a ‘fuel’ surcharge is just a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The greedy multi-million dollar executives just wanted to line their pockets with more money. I hope this backfires on them big time. In the meantime, I am going to pass the costs onto my customers first. See how the auctions go. If nothing changes, I will stick with UPS <for now At the same time, I am going to be looking for an alternate carrier, and if that carrier is reasonable, the UPS is history. I have an account with Airborne, I used them a few times to ship to Latvia. It’s time to look at them a little harder.

Agreed.  I’ve heard nothing bad about Airborne Express here, and it’s at least worth a try. — Dan Sadro

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It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the Adios UPS. FedEx here I come. I’m going to miss you. My only hope is that you CHOKE on your own greed and your company goes out of business. You deserve it!

Response:

It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the advent of eBay. Now they raise their rates to the tune of Adios UPS. FedEx here I come. I’m going to miss you. My only hope is that you CHOKE on your own greed and your company goes out of business. You deserve it!

Wonder how long before FedEx increases, and whom you’ll run to then. — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the advent of eBay. Now they raise their rates to the tune of Adios UPS. FedEx here I come. I’m going to miss you. My only hope is that you CHOKE on your own greed and your company goes out of business. You deserve it! Wonder how long before FedEx increases, and whom you’ll run to then.

Probably in about 3-weeks from now, I would guess.  I’ll still use UPS as I sure as hell am not going to stand in line at the post office.  This is one reason why I have a shipping calculator in my auctions so that the customer will realize I’m not the one gouging. On a side note, I’ll throw in my bitch about UPS.  They now are charging 5% for late payments.  My accounting department saves up four UPS weekly invoices before cutting a check.  BASTARDS!!!!  I will be calling them to see what I have to do to get on monthly billing. Rita

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Probably in about 3-weeks from now, I would guess.  I’ll still use UPS as I sure as hell am not going to stand in line at the post office.  This is one reason why I have a shipping calculator in my auctions so that the customer will realize I’m not the one gouging.

"Back in the day" when I was a seller, I had UPS service for a brief time. God, I loved that. Talk about spoiled. — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the advent of eBay. Now they raise their rates to the tune of Adios UPS. FedEx here I come. I’m going to miss you. My only hope is that you CHOKE on your own greed and your company goes out of business. You deserve it! Wonder how long before FedEx increases, and whom you’ll run to then. —

Unfortunately, I’m going to have to put a disclaimer in my future auctions, that says something to the affect: "Due to a sharp increase in UPS fees, I am forced to raise my shipping rates to reflect that increase. I assure you, I make no profit on shipping. Thank you." The US Post office is NASTY. I would rather send my packages by camel than wait in their 2 hour lines. So if FedEx is about the same cost, then the increase, as always, will be passed on to the consumer. Only one problem with this though. The shipping increase will likely turn off some sellers, and we will lose potential business. That remains to be seen. In either case, the whole thing sucks. I can understand, well I really can’t, but ok, 10%. But a 50% increase is an outrage!

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The US Post office is NASTY. I would rather send my packages by camel than wait in their 2 hour lines. So if FedEx is about the same cost, then the increase, as always, will be passed on to the consumer.

Is it worth it to you to use Stamps.com? I used to use it and LOVED it. All the work is done at your home/office. No standing in line at the post office. But there’s a fee. I thought it was manageable; your volume may be too high .. I don’t know. Only one problem with this though. The shipping increase will likely turn off some sellers, and we will lose potential business.

Perhaps some, but I think your idea about a disclaimer is a good one. If you state flatly that you’re shipping at cost, it seems to me that would placate anxious potential buyers. — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

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<snip "Back in the day" when I was a seller, I had UPS service for a brief time. God, I loved that. Talk about spoiled. — jan

I’m trying sending some things through Airborne presently.  I got an account and a slight discount, all I have to do is print the labels online and drop the packages off at the local Office Max, just a couple of miles from my house.  No lines, no waiting, and on a five pound package from Dallas to California, the price is about half the price of parcel post. Richard Ward

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I suspect there are rate increases across the board.  Fuel surcharges are one I have seen, especially after the most recent gas price spike.  On the rates that UPS quote to me, I see an added fuel surcharge per package. Oh well, cheaper than delivering it myself. Robb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the Adios UPS. FedEx here I come. I’m going to miss you. My only hope is that you CHOKE on your own greed and your company goes out of business. You deserve it!

Response:

I suspect there are rate increases across the board.  Fuel surcharges are one I have seen, especially after the most recent gas price spike.

My brother asked someone he knows at Costco about the sharp increase in some of their prices. The guy  – a buyer — told him they were recouping for transportation costs. — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

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Is it worth it to you to use Stamps.com? I used to use it and LOVED it. All the work is done at your home/office. No standing in line at the post office. But there’s a fee. I thought it was manageable; your volume may be too high .. I don’t know.

after using it it is faster standing inline. when you have insurance and DE on every package standing inline is a breeze. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com  For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suspect there are rate increases across the board.  Fuel surcharges are one I have seen, especially after the most recent gas price spike. My brother asked someone he knows at Costco about the sharp increase in some of their prices. The guy  – a buyer — told him they were recouping for transportation costs. — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

Just a quick note.  After ranting and raving for 2 days with UPS, they changed all the accounts that were calling in to on demand. We caught it 4 packages in.  For those of us that were told in the past to not worry about paying the weekly pick up fee’s just call when we needed a pickup.  It wasn’t all that big a deal since we have a drop off almost daily so I usually catch the driver anyways. But UPS failed to tell the customers.  When I asked about it they asked if I read the book they sent.  As politely as I could at the moment I explained that we were on line customers and who has time to read let alone open those stupid books they send.  The only thing useful they ever sent was the chain to measure the packages with. OH  I AM still man  whew. Lack of communication will break up a happy home and a good business relationship.  UPS is fitting fetchingly in that catagory.  The greedy get greedier.  Their weekly pay structure looks very familiar now too.  Almost like FedEx. I would not be surprised if in the near future you hear that UPS bought FedEx and the only shipping router we will have is UPS and USPS. UPS is sneaky that way.  Look how they just slid into mailboxes etc.

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UPS is sneaky that way.  Look how they just slid into mailboxes etc.

That one TOTALLY caught me off-guard. How weird is that??? — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the advent of eBay. Now they raise their rates to the tune of Adios UPS. FedEx here I come. I’m going to miss you. My only hope is that you CHOKE on your own greed and your company goes out of business. You deserve it! Wonder how long before FedEx increases, and whom you’ll run to then. Probably in about 3-weeks from now, I would guess.  I’ll still use UPS as I sure as hell am not going to stand in line at the post office.  This is one reason why I have a shipping calculator in my auctions so that the customer will realize I’m not the one gouging. On a side note, I’ll throw in my bitch about UPS.  They now are charging 5% for late payments.  My accounting department saves up four UPS weekly invoices before cutting a check.  BASTARDS!!!!  I will be calling them to see what I have to do to get on monthly billing. Rita

I have a FedEx account and they did just increase their rates, but the increase was like 10% or something.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip "Back in the day" when I was a seller, I had UPS service for a brief time. God, I loved that. Talk about spoiled. — jan I’m trying sending some things through Airborne presently.  I got an account and a slight discount, all I have to do is print the labels online and drop the packages off at the local Office Max, just a couple of miles from my house.  No lines, no waiting, and on a five pound package from Dallas to California, the price is about half the price of parcel post. Richard Ward

So far I’m really enjoying my Airborne Express account too. They were a lot cheaper than UPS even before the rate increase, and they are faster too. I got my first bill a few days ago and they itemize everything nicely. The only downside was a few incorrect overweight charges which I got reversed. I definitely don’t miss the lines at the post office. M.

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Wonder how long before FedEx increases, and whom you’ll run to then.

There’s still Orangutan & Co and Airbourne Express. =)

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UPS is sneaky that way.  Look how they just slid into mailboxes etc. That one TOTALLY caught me off-guard. How weird is that???

they do that???!

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So far I’m really enjoying my Airborne Express account too. They were a lot cheaper than UPS even before the rate increase, and they are faster too. I got my first bill a few days ago and they itemize everything nicely. The only downside was a few incorrect overweight charges which I got reversed.

Airborne has, I think, outdone themselves in pitching to play among the others and shed its traditionally commercial-shipping image. Good for them. — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

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UPS is sneaky that way.  Look how they just slid into mailboxes etc. That one TOTALLY caught me off-guard. How weird is that??? they do that???!

They now own Mailboxes Etc. — jan "There’s only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the wives and the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having committed the troops, I’ve got an additional responsibility to hug and that’s me and I know what it’s like." – Pres. GW Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002

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Auctions that used to cost $2 to list now cost $3.30, a 65% increase. I don’t suppose you noticed that a USPS zone 8 two pound priority package went from $3.95 to $5.75, a 46% increase? It’s not enough that their business has increased probably 5000% since the

Since ebay, more people are using USPS.  And their cost of fuel has gone up considerably. Adios UPS. FedEx here I come. I’m going to miss you.

Until they raise their rates, and you’ll be back here bitching about them, right?  And don’t even get me started on why I can get stuff faster with two-day UPS than I can with next-morning Fed-Ex. — My school colors were clear. We used to say, "I’m not naked, I’m in the band."

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The US Post office is NASTY. I would rather send my packages by camel than wait in their 2 hour lines.

I know what you mean.  At the peak of shipping season, I had to wait once for almost 15 minutes.  Maybe the problem isn’t "the US Post Office", but your particular office. Unfortunately, we all tend to think of any entire organization based on the half dozen people in it who we ever deal with.  I actually watched a local clerk hand out complaint forms and tell people to complain that more lines should be opened.  This was when wait time was up to 10 minutes. Only one problem with this though. The shipping increase will likely turn off some sellers, and we will lose potential business.

So?  They’ll turn off your competition’s buyers, too.  And raise the retail price in the store.  That’s called inflation.  I can understand, well I really can’t, but ok, 10%. But a 50% increase is an outrage!

Funny, when I bitched about a 65% increase in listing fees, people responded to the out

Question:

I run and Internet web host provider. My vendor charges me a fee for leasing one of its servers. Where would that fall in the expenses category, I am using quickbooks pro 2001.

I would set up a General Ledger account called Server Leasing Fees. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Tom Wines VP Operations BizBod Internet Group Web: http://www.bizbod.com

Response:

Hi, Tom: My friend thinks that you should have an account set up for the vendor, General Ledger. In that account you would post the weekly/monthly invoice from them and you would also post the payments. He is not a user of Quick books! Category: Profit & Loss – Expense Account – Let me know if he is wrong! Regards Joyce Tor, Can — I run and Internet web host provider. My vendor charges me a fee for leasing one of its servers. Where would that fall in the expenses category, I am using quickbooks pro 2001. — Tom Wines VP Operations BizBod Internet Group Web: http://www.bizbod.com

 Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:                 http://MailAndNews.com  Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or  POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.

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I run and Internet web host provider. My vendor charges me a fee for leasing one of its servers. Where would that fall in the expenses category, I am using quickbooks pro 2001. — Tom Wines VP Operations BizBod Internet Group Web: http://www.bizbod.com

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I run and Internet web host provider. My vendor charges me a fee for leasing one of its servers. Where would that fall in the expenses category, I am using quickbooks pro 2001.

I would take it under Rent. You could say Equipment Rent or Computer Service, which TurboTax link to Other Deductions.      Mike Block – Tax Cut CPA  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester     FREE  NetLedger accounting   FREE 462p QB books/error codes 100+ QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

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Question:

It’s true that if you are on medication for OCD, you probably won’t get in to the military/piloting jobs. But as for having a previous record, that’s not something to worry about. At your age, the symptoms of mild OCD can be attributed to many other factors, and you may well grow out of it(if it isn’t OCD), or be able to avoid medication through behavioural therapy – in which case prior medical records which show you were tested for OCD as a child would not really be relevant if it was no longer a problem. When I was about your age, I had similar problems, and the Doctor whom I went to said it was very likely that I had OCD. 10 Years later and I’m completely fine, and going to med school soon! My point is, don’t go closing doors because of something you ‘might’ have. See a psychiatrist, and try and get proper evaluation and help as early as possible. Even if you do have it, there are still hundreds of careers still open to you, so don’t worry. Don’t be put off by the others telling you that you can’t do it, go for it, you can do anything if you put your mind to it! Mark "Richard" <richard…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:8k5n0v$epc$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all! > I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions > are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and > confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the > Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd, > i have already sent off the forms, but i am worried it might get put on > record that i have OCD and i wont be able to get the job i really want, and > airline/military are very high paid/demanding job’s that require A1 health, > i really want this job and will be happy to work real hard, but i dont want > to be let down. can anyone help? Will i be able to get a job with the > navy/military/airline?  or any advice as to how i can control ocd, > thanks alot! > Richard

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check out the link Steve gave for Helen’s story … posted a few days ago … you’ll find inspiration there … M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Louis Johnson wrote in message <8k5vqu$5e…@mohawk.hwcn.org>… >Richard (richard…@hotmail.com) wrote: >: Hi all! >: I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions >: are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and >: confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the >: Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd, >: i have already sent off the forms, but i am worried it might get put on >snip. >my opp. from personal experience: >mil. career is out of the question. >too much risk you find yourself in a panic situation, frozen >into inaction, the condition is blamed for the shortcoming and >you get sent home. dont take that chance, take up an occupation that >allows maximum freedom of movement so you can do a time-out any time >to relieve the stress. >find a profession like surveying, consulting, law, accounting, whatever, >to keep ahead of the game on your OWN terms.

Response:

Richard (richard…@hotmail.com) wrote:

: Hi all! : I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions : are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and : confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the : Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd, : i have already sent off the forms, but i am worried it might get put on snip. my opp. from personal experience: mil. career is out of the question. too much risk you find yourself in a panic situation, frozen into inaction, the condition is blamed for the shortcoming and you get sent home. dont take that chance, take up an occupation that allows maximum freedom of movement so you can do a time-out any time to relieve the stress. find a profession like surveying, consulting, law, accounting, whatever, to keep ahead of the game on your OWN terms.

Response:

Richard wrote: > Hi all! > I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions > are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and > confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the > Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd,

So far as I know, the use of any of the prescription medications for OCD represents a disqualification for piloting. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Email:  s…@mitre.org                 Disclaimer:  As far as I am aware, the opinions expressed herein             are not those of my employer.

Response:

Richard shoot for the stars boy. If you want to be a pilot I think you can be. You are young and maybe you can nip this OCD in the bud before your career. Best of luck to you. kathryn "Louis Johnson" <ad…@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> wrote in message

news:8k5vqu$5e4$5@mohawk.hwcn.org… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Richard (richard…@hotmail.com) wrote: > : Hi all! > : I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions > : are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and > : confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the > : Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd, > : i have already sent off the forms, but i am worried it might get put on > snip. > my opp. from personal experience: > mil. career is out of the question. > too much risk you find yourself in a panic situation, frozen > into inaction, the condition is blamed for the shortcoming and > you get sent home. dont take that chance, take up an occupation that > allows maximum freedom of movement so you can do a time-out any time > to relieve the stress. > find a profession like surveying, consulting, law, accounting, whatever, > to keep ahead of the game on your OWN terms.

Response:

To Richard: This would be a great time to start exposure therapy and perhaps you can overcome it before you go into the field. I do not know the policy about being on medications and being in the Military but perhaps someone could make a query anonymously to find out? You sound very ambitious and I wish you all the best! kathryn "Richard" <richard…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:8k5n0v$epc$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all! > I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions > are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and > confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the > Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd, > i have already sent off the forms, but i am worried it might get put on > record that i have OCD and i wont be able to get the job i really want, and > airline/military are very high paid/demanding job’s that require A1 health, > i really want this job and will be happy to work real hard, but i dont want > to be let down. can anyone help? Will i be able to get a job with the > navy/military/airline?  or any advice as to how i can control ocd, > thanks alot! > Richard

Response:

Unless they find a cure for OCD by the time you’re of working age, Richard, there’s no way you’re going to get such a job. Guess you’ll just have to become a high-powered aviation tycoon instead. — Thrasher Richard <richard…@hotmail.com> wrote in article <8k5n0v$ep…@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>… | Hi all! | I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions | are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and | confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the | Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd, | i have already sent off the forms, but i am worried it might get put on | record that i have OCD and i wont be able to get the job i really want, and | airline/military are very high paid/demanding job’s that require A1 health, | i really want this job and will be happy to work real hard, but i dont want | to be let down. can anyone help? Will i be able to get a job with the | navy/military/airline?  or any advice as to how i can control ocd, | | thanks alot! | | Richard | | |

Response:

Hi all! I’m 14 from the UK. and have OCD  i have had it for ages, my main obsessions are washing, worring that my hands/arms compter ect. are not clean, and confessing/checking, but i want to become an airline pilot, either for the Military/navy or for an airline, The problem is i want to get help with ocd, i have already sent off the forms, but i am worried it might get put on record that i have OCD and i wont be able to get the job i really want, and airline/military are very high paid/demanding job’s that require A1 health, i really want this job and will be happy to work real hard, but i dont want to be let down. can anyone help? Will i be able to get a job with the navy/military/airline?  or any advice as to how i can control ocd, thanks alot! Richard

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Question:

Hello, Does anyone know what the term ‘Weighted Average Cost of Capital’ means? – I have been looking all over the place, but can find no reference to it at all. Thanks, Alex

That’s strange. I did a search of Yahoo for ‘Weighted Average Cost of Capital’ and I got plenty of references! The ones at the top even seemed relevant, too! — Peter Saxton from London

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<snip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nicely put, Terry.  And then, in terms of application, a company would look to use it’s WACC as a benchmark for: – assessing the returns of competing capital pojects (ie. DCF or IRR – discounted cash flow or internal rate of return), – incentive programs where the trigger is meeting a specific ROI (common with EVA – economic value added – based incentive), – benchmarking performance against competitors, where the competitors’ WACC is know or can be estimated. – you get the idea. Ross. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1

<snip Hi, Thanks for that – much appreciated -Alex

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Nicely put, Terry.  And then, in terms of application, a company would look to use it’s WACC as a benchmark for: – assessing the returns of competing capital pojects (ie. DCF or IRR – discounted cash flow or internal rate of return), – incentive programs where the trigger is meeting a specific ROI (common with EVA – economic value added – based incentive), – benchmarking performance against competitors, where the competitors’ WACC is know or can be estimated. – you get the idea. Ross.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Does anyone know what the term ‘Weighted Average Cost of Capital’ means? – I have been looking all over the place, but can find no reference to it at all. cost of capital: The return, expressed in terms of an interest rate, that an organisation is required to pay for the capital used in financing its activities. (Oxford Dictionary of Accounting) An organisation may have a number of sources of capital (e.g. share capital, loan capital) and these are likely to have different rates of return. To compute a single cost of capital for the organisation, one can take an average of the costs of the various sources of capital, weighted according to the amount of capital raised from that source. Example: 75% of a company’s capital is share capital, and the shareholders’ required rate of return is 10%. The remainder is debt, with an interest rate of 8%. The weighted average cost of capital (WACC) is (75% * 10%) + (25% * 8%) = 9.5% Best wishes, Terry Boon —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBOHpKVgfhhuwOgxFAEQIEYgCg0zYJAUdlB+m/4UJ6TALk+X2ny9EAniuD GvjIl1020zaoiPkBmDhAjPUf =cqBY —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Does anyone know what the term ‘Weighted Average Cost of Capital’ means? – I have been looking all over the place, but can find no reference to it at all.

cost of capital: The return, expressed in terms of an interest rate, that an organisation is required to pay for the capital used in financing its activities. (Oxford Dictionary of Accounting) An organisation may have a number of sources of capital (e.g. share capital, loan capital) and these are likely to have different rates of return. To compute a single cost of capital for the organisation, one can take an average of the costs of the various sources of capital, weighted according to the amount of capital raised from that source. Example: 75% of a company’s capital is share capital, and the shareholders’ required rate of return is 10%. The remainder is debt, with an interest rate of 8%. The weighted average cost of capital (WACC) is (75% * 10%) + (25% * 8%) = 9.5% Best wishes, Terry Boon —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBOHpKVgfhhuwOgxFAEQIEYgCg0zYJAUdlB+m/4UJ6TALk+X2ny9EAniuD GvjIl1020zaoiPkBmDhAjPUf =cqBY —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Hello, Does anyone know what the term ‘Weighted Average Cost of Capital’ means? – I have been looking all over the place, but can find no reference to it at all. Thanks, Alex

Response:

Question:

We are FUND E-Z nad we sell a reasonably priced Fund accounting system check us out at http://www.fundez.com/.  Many of our clients swithed from Quickbooks. If you have any questions please contact me at 914-696-0900 Mike Benowitz FUND E-Z Development Corp. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group: I’ve been asked by a small local Non-Profit seniors community center Organization (NPO) (They run the normal activities: Thrift Shop, Bingo, Senior Tours and other activities) if it is OK to switch accounting software from Quatro Pro to Quick Books Pro (QBP) (1996 Version). They are trying to symplify the entire accounting and bookkeeping function and at the same time produce the normal necessary management reports on a timely basis while maintaining the normal oversite management controls. (Sorry to use the word "normal" twice!) Things to be considered in your reply are: 1. How well does QBP work with the various revenue and cost centers that an NPO usually has? 2. Are there significant deficiencies in the QBP software that could affect the NPO’s ability to carry out its mandated function? 3. Any other reasons you feel are appropriate to be discussed in this matter. 4. If you believe that the QBP software in inadequate (after specifying your reasons for same), can you suggest alternative software that is reasonably priced for the NPO. Your suggestions on this matter are appreciated in advance! Regards, Al Gershen, Inactive CPA Grants Pass, Oregon, USA and thru ICQ # 12342782 (Message posted thru Deja News on Friday, 12/11/98 at apx. 6:14 PM PST [GMT -8]) — Regards, Al Gershen, Grants Pass, OR, USA

Response:

Hi Group: I’ve been asked by a small local Non-Profit seniors community center Organization (NPO) (They run the normal activities: Thrift Shop, Bingo, Senior Tours and other activities) if it is OK to switch accounting software from Quatro Pro to Quick Books Pro (QBP) (1996 Version). They are trying to symplify the entire accounting and bookkeeping function and at the same time produce the normal necessary management reports on a timely basis while maintaining the normal oversite management controls. (Sorry to use the word "normal" twice!) Things to be considered in your reply are: 1. How well does QBP work with the various revenue and cost centers that an NPO usually has? 2. Are there significant deficiencies in the QBP software that could affect the NPO’s ability to carry out its mandated function? 3. Any other reasons you feel are appropriate to be discussed in this matter. 4. If you believe that the QBP software in inadequate (after specifying your reasons for same), can you suggest alternative software that is reasonably priced for the NPO. Your suggestions on this matter are appreciated in advance! Regards, Al Gershen, Inactive CPA Grants Pass, Oregon, USA and thru ICQ # 12342782 (Message posted thru Deja News on Friday, 12/11/98 at apx. 6:14 PM PST [GMT -8]) — Regards, Al Gershen, Grants Pass, OR, USA

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Question:

3) My most paranoid question: Ok, when sanatizing,   a) is it really absolutely neccessary to rinse after using a solution      of 1 tblspn/bleach to 1 galn/water?   b) The real reason I ask (a) is, won’t rinsing with municipal tap water      eliminate contribute bad stuff to what would otherwise have been      sanitary equiptment?

I don’t know about *your* tapwater, but mine (esp. from the hot side) smells strongly of chlorine, so I’m guessing not much is living in it. I rinse my chlorine-sanitized utensils, carboys, etc. with tapwater for years, and have never had a problem (except the time the chiller leaked into the pot…). Jo3sh Malt does more than Milton can To justify God’s ways to Man.                – A. E. Housman

Response:

The following has been my experience: Reuse of liquid yeast is fine if you maintain satisfactory sanitary conditions, but I strongly question the repitching of dry yeast. Dry yeast is never contamination free even on the first use, and because it is far less expensive then liquid why take the chance. I look at it this way; Do I want to risk $40 worth of choice ingredients just to save a buck on yeast? Boilovers happen but I have never had one effect the outcome of my beer, good or bad. It is not possible for a home brewer to maintain laboratory sanitary conditions, so just do the best you can. I use bleach to sanitize and always rinse prior to adding the wort. I have never had a problem with this and I don’t think you will either as long as your water supply is safe. If this is still a concern to you I would suggest using idophor rather then bleach. It is more expensive but you don’t have to rinse (unless you really want to). I hope this helps.

Response:

The thing is, I used a dry yeast for this. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s fine to re-use liquid yeast in this way, but I’ve also been lead to believe that it might not be the best idea to do it with freeze-dryed yeast. What do the experts say? -Also, should I bother to clean out the trub/yeast at the bottom? if so, how?

        It should be no problem to re-use dry yeast.  However, make sure that your batch was not infected in any way.  Dry yeast has more of a tendency to pick up infection during processing and manufacture than does liquid.  Secondly, you might want to only harvest the yeast from your viable layer.  This is generally considered to be the middle layer of creamy, white yeast, accounting for about 50% of the mass of the cake.  There was a procedure posted here about how to "wash" yeast.  You may consider it.  It involved adding water, dissolving everything, letting it settle, and pouring off.  Repeating this a couple of times, so the author said, would purify the yeast somewhat. 2) Everyone dreads boil-over, but it happens relatively often. Obviously, it can be prevented, but I’m wondering, does it really have a negative effect on the resulting beer??  I’ve been lead to believe it might be, although that’s not my intuition. What do ya think?

        They should NOT have a negative effect.  However, they are not necessary.  Why bother letting it take place?  The only effects they have are:  Create a huge mess, and decrease from your original specific gravity.  They are very easy to control:         Get a larger pot.  If you don’t already have a pot big enough to do a complete boil without boilover, you’ll eventually want one. Trust me.         Keep a spray bottle next to your brew pot, filled with ice water.  If it threatens to boil over, spray it with the water.  The boilover should go down.  After that, turn down the heat a little bit so that it doesn’t happen again.   a) is it really absolutely neccessary to rinse after using a solution      of 1 tblspn/bleach to 1 galn/water?   b) The real reason I ask (a) is, won’t rinsing with municipal tap water      eliminate contribute bad stuff to what would otherwise have been      sanitary equiptment?   c) What about just letting sanitary equiptment sit in the air?

        a) Chlorine + beer = bad.  Personally, I wouldn’t want to drink ANY chlorine in my beer (or my municipal water, which is why I filter it).  Do you?  Even worse, when chlorine combines with beer, bad compounds form.  Yuck.         b) The chlorine seems to be mainly useful for cleaning bacteria that might be living on the surface of the glassware. Municipal water, for the most part, should be fairly sanitary.  The small amount of bacteria you’ll probably be re-introducing should not be a huge problem, as you’ll also be pitching a sufficient amount of yeast to take over and destroy it.         c)  Not good with household bleach, as the sodium hypochlorate will not evaporate, but will dry into a powder instead.  Then, you might as well have just added it straight into your brew.         If you’re really serious about not wanting to rinse, get some C-Brite, or a similar no-rinse sanitizer.  Ask your local homebrew shop about it.  (I rinse C-Brite, too.  My nose tells me that not all of it ever evaporates) NOTICE TO BULK EMAILER(S): Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, 227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US.                                                                    

Response:

Hey folks, I’ve got a few questions that I’m hoping I can come to some consensus about. 1) I’m currently brewing a fairly light lager, (started last night). I’m planning on transferring it to a secondary monday. So, on monday, I want to use the yeast from the light lager in the bottom of the primary fermenter to jump start a batch of dopplebock. (and also to cut costs) The thing is, I used a dry yeast for this. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s fine to re-use liquid yeast in this way, but I’ve also been lead to believe that it might not be the best idea to do it with freeze-dryed yeast. What do the experts say? -Also, should I bother to clean out the trub/yeast at the bottom? if so, how? 2) Everyone dreads boil-over, but it happens relatively often. Obviously, it can be prevented, but I’m wondering, does it really have a negative effect on the resulting beer??  I’ve been lead to believe it might be, although that’s not my intuition. What do ya think? 3) My most paranoid question: Ok, when sanatizing,    a) is it really absolutely neccessary to rinse after using a solution       of 1 tblspn/bleach to 1 galn/water?    b) The real reason I ask (a) is, won’t rinsing with municipal tap water       eliminate contribute bad stuff to what would otherwise have been       sanitary equiptment?    c) What about just letting sanitary equiptment sit in the air? If these things do make it unsanitary, is it to such a small degree that it won’t affect the quality? And, is there anything I can do to fix these problems? Thanks for your help! -Justin —  "I am the person my parents warned me about." |"A lie is a  |     Message Copyright, 1995. The Microsoft    | "A little    | |technological| Network is prohibited from redistributing this| rebellion now| |inexactitude"| work in any form. License for distribution is | & then is a  | |- Winston    | available for US$5000000. Distribution without| good thing." | |    Churchill|permission constitutes agreement to these terms| T. Jefferson | -CIA–NSA–FBI–ATF–SS–KGB–MI5–CSIS–SUPO–PIP–DEA–NRO–xxx–xxx–xx x-/              Any cool agencies in your country?           ^^^ Mail me!!

Response:

Question:

I’m wondering if the symptoms of LD can mimic those of ALS (Lou Gerhigs disease)?? Also could the diagnostic tests turn out the same, specificly an EMG test ?? Can some of the symptoms of LD be: loss  of balance, muscle weakness, ataxia, poor gait,  poor balance, muscle stiffness, muscle spasms, cramping, eventual paralysis, muscle atrophy, nerve damage, exaggerateed emotions, swallowing problems, speach problems, excessive salivation??? Are there any known cases of LD being initially being misdiagnosed as ALS?? Sincerely, Dennis http://members.aol.com/midennis/index.htm

Response:

I’m wondering if the symptoms of LD can mimic those of ALS (Lou Gerhigs

disease)?? Also could the diagnostic tests turn out the same, specificly an EMG test ?? Can some of the symptoms of LD be: loss  of balance, muscle weakness,

ataxia, poor gait,  poor balance, muscle stiffness, muscle spasms, cramping, eventual paralysis, muscle atrophy, nerve damage, exaggerateed emotions, swallowing problems, speach problems, excessive salivation??? Are there any known cases of LD being initially being misdiagnosed as ALS?? Sincerely, Dennis http://members.aol.com/midennis/index.htm

Dennis – When I read your post my heart skipped a beat and I got a very sick feeling in my stomach. Just about 1 month before I was finally started on IV antibotics,  this is what  was happening to me of the above that you listed: loss  of balance, muscle weakness, ataxia, poor gait, muscle stiffness, muscle atrophy, nerve damage, exaggerateed emotions, (could still be true) speech problems, just to name of few! I was even walking with a cane to try to keep from falling over. Sometimes the cane helped me catch myself – if I was falling forward, and sometimes not – if I found myself falling backwards. I broke my foot and tore ligaments due to one of those episodes. I wanted to have a T-Shirt made up saying "I’m NOT drunk, I have Lyme Disease!" (I don’t even drink!)  It was very embarassing (for me & I’m sure others) to be out in public in that condition. It all started with short-term memory loss for me and exhaustion. Most people do not know those are warning signs of LD. Since I also fell in the catergory of those who did not get a bull-eyes rash – only 45-50% do actually, I went undiagnosed for a long time, like many of us do. I’m late stage now, or 3rd stage, there are no more stages! Now it has gotten into my brain, shows up on a MRI as spots and has attacked my long term memory. It has taken parts of my past away from me. Sometimes now my husband or son talks about an events in our lives and I have no idea what they are talking about. He just told me that we were in the section of France where Diana was killed. He said we went right through that tunnel. I have no memory of that at all, and that was only in 1990. I mean I know we were in France but no details. It has also taken away my abililty to work with numbers. Sometimes I can’t count money. My brain can no longer "hear" numbers. I can not "catch" a phone number on an answering machine or if someone tries to give me a phone number. I had to have caller ID put on all my phones. I can "see" them, I just can’t "hear" them. I know it sounds strange. I can no longer do any accounting. I can’t even figure out my checkbook. I "used" to be a wiz with numbers! Please, please,  post this to our Lyme Support group. I’m new online and certainly do not know all there is about LD, I’m over there learning too. They may know about this or maybe this is something that could be really important. Our group is listed below: Regards! Marleen (MO) South Jersey Lyme Warrior: Newgroup: sci.med.diseases.lyme "Never doubt that a small group of commited citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." — Margaret Meade

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