Question:
Honolulu, Hawaii–Prohibiting civil marriage for same-sex couples is discriminatory and unfairly denies such couples, their children and other members of their families the legal, financial and social advantages of civil marriage says the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Council of Representatives in a resolution adopted here. The APA also opposed discrimination against lesbian or gay parents adoption, child custody and visitation, foster care and reproductive health services. Both policy positions were adopted at the recommendation of an APA Working Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships. The Working Group, appointed by the APA Council of Representatives in February 2004, was charged with developing policy recommendations for APA that would guide psychologists in the current public debate over civil marriage for same-sex couples. The Working Group was directed further to base its policy recommendations on the research on same-sex relationships and families. Armand Cerbone, Ph.D. is a member of the APA Working Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships This seven-member team of psychologists with a combination of both scientific expertise in family and couple relations and professional expertise with lesbian, gay, and bisexual populations summarized the research that discrimination and prejudice based on sexual orientation detrimentally affects the psychological, physical, social and economic well-being of lesbian, gay and bisexual individuals, that same-sex couples are remarkably similar to heterosexual couples, and that parenting effectiveness and the adjustment, development and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation. "The APA recognizes the importance of the institution of civil marriage which confers a social status with important legal benefits, rights and privileges," said psychologist Armand R. Cerbone, who is a private practitioner in Chicago and chair of the working group. "Discrimination of all kinds takes a toll on people’s health and psychological well being. In the context of the huge social and political debate that is currently going on, APA and psychologists had to grapple with the issue of what psychology believes is in the public interest in this controversy." Given what research tells us about the impact of discrimination and given that the research further provides no justification for discriminating against same-sex couples in marriage or in parenting, the Working Group strongly recommended that APA support states in providing civil marriage to same-sex couples and fully recognizing the parental rights of lesbians and gay men. As a benefit for human welfare, it is important to point out that permitting same-sex couples to marriage may especially benefit people who also experience discrimination based on age, race, ethnicity, disability, gender and gender identity, religion and socioeconomic status, said Cerbone. According to the United States Accounting Office (2004), over 1,000 federal statutory provisions exist in which marital status is a factor in determining a person’s eligibility to receive various benefits, rights and privileges. APA Working Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships: Armand Cerbone, Ph.D., Chicago, Illinois; Beverly Greene, Ph.D., St. John_s University; Kristin Hancock, Ph.D., Graduate School of Professional Psychology at John F. Kennedy University; Lawrence A. Kurdek, Ph.D., Wright State University; Candace A. McCullough, Ph.D., Bethesda, Maryland; Letitia Anne Peplau, Ph.D., University
Response:
On 02 Aug 2004 22:01:47 GMT, Rootsman <roots…@aol.com> wrote: > Honolulu, Hawaii–Prohibiting civil marriage for same-sex couples is > discriminatory and unfairly denies such couples, their children and other > members of their families the legal, financial and social advantages of civil > marriage says the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Council of > Representatives in a resolution adopted here.
It’s not discriminatory. Any gay person can take advantage of civil marriage in any of our 50 states. -Tony — "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it’s time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.
Response:
Tony Miller <t…@cigardiary.com> writes: > On 02 Aug 2004 22:01:47 GMT, Rootsman > <roots…@aol.com> wrote: > > Honolulu, Hawaii–Prohibiting civil marriage for same-sex couples is > > discriminatory and unfairly denies such couples, their children and other > > members of their families the legal, financial and social advantages of civil > > marriage says the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Council of > > Representatives in a resolution adopted here. > It’s not discriminatory. Any gay person can take advantage of civil > marriage in any of our 50 states.
It’s highly discriminatory. Any man can marry the woman of his choice so long as she agrees. Not true for any woman (she can’t marry the woman of her choice if that woman agrees). And so on. Pretending that gays have the same choices as the rest of us is cruel and sarcastic.
Response:
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 01:09:07 GMT, Doug Anderson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<ethelthelogremovet…@yahoo.com> wrote: > Tony Miller <t…@cigardiary.com> writes: >> On 02 Aug 2004 22:01:47 GMT, Rootsman >> <roots…@aol.com> wrote: >> > Honolulu, Hawaii–Prohibiting civil marriage for same-sex couples is >> > discriminatory and unfairly denies such couples, their children and other >> > members of their families the legal, financial and social advantages of civil >> > marriage says the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Council of >> > Representatives in a resolution adopted here. >> It’s not discriminatory. Any gay person can take advantage of civil >> marriage in any of our 50 states. > It’s highly discriminatory. Any man can marry the woman of his choice > so long as she agrees. Not true for any woman (she can’t marry the > woman of her choice if that woman agrees). And so on. > Pretending that gays have the same choices as the rest of us is cruel > and sarcastic.
Then men’s and ladies rest rooms are discriminatory. We eliminated separate rest rooms for black people, maybe it’s time to eliminate this particular form of gender discrimination!!! SEPARATE BUT EQUAL IS NOT EQUAL!!!! -Tony — "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it’s time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony Miller <t…@cigardiary.com> writes: > On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 01:09:07 GMT, Doug Anderson > <ethelthelogremovet…@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Tony Miller <t…@cigardiary.com> writes: > >> On 02 Aug 2004 22:01:47 GMT, Rootsman > >> <roots…@aol.com> wrote: > >> > Honolulu, Hawaii–Prohibiting civil marriage for same-sex couples is > >> > discriminatory and unfairly denies such couples, their children and other > >> > members of their families the legal, financial and social advantages of civil > >> > marriage says the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Council of > >> > Representatives in a resolution adopted here. > >> It’s not discriminatory. Any gay person can take advantage of civil > >> marriage in any of our 50 states. > > It’s highly discriminatory. Any man can marry the woman of his choice > > so long as she agrees. Not true for any woman (she can’t marry the > > woman of her choice if that woman agrees). And so on. > > Pretending that gays have the same choices as the rest of us is cruel > > and sarcastic. > Then men’s and ladies rest rooms are discriminatory.
Do you actually believe this to be a serious point?
Response:
Yeah – and the same all applies to polygamous marriages, right? "Rootsman" <roots…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040802180147.15071.00000861@mb-m02.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Honolulu, Hawaii–Prohibiting civil marriage for same-sex couples is > discriminatory and unfairly denies such couples, their children and other > members of their families the legal, financial and social advantages of civil > marriage says the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Council of > Representatives in a resolution adopted here. > The APA also opposed discrimination against lesbian or gay parents adoption, > child custody and visitation, foster care and reproductive health services. > Both policy positions were adopted at the recommendation of an APA Working > Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships. The Working Group, appointed by > the APA Council of Representatives in February 2004, was charged with > developing policy recommendations for APA that would guide psychologists in the > current public debate over civil marriage for same-sex couples. The Working > Group was directed further to base its policy recommendations on the research > on same-sex relationships and families. Armand Cerbone, Ph.D. is a member of > the APA Working Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships > This seven-member team of psychologists with a combination of both scientific > expertise in family and couple relations and professional expertise with > lesbian, gay, and bisexual populations summarized the research that > discrimination and prejudice based on sexual orientation detrimentally affects > the psychological, physical, social and economic well-being of lesbian, gay and > bisexual individuals, that same-sex couples are remarkably similar to > heterosexual couples, and that parenting effectiveness and the adjustment, > development and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental > sexual orientation. > "The APA recognizes the importance of the institution of civil marriage which > confers a social status with important legal benefits, rights and privileges," > said psychologist Armand R. Cerbone, who is a private practitioner in Chicago > and chair of the working group. > "Discrimination of all kinds takes a toll on people’s health and psychological > well being. In the context of the huge social and political debate that is > currently going on, APA and psychologists had to grapple with the issue of what > psychology believes is in the public interest in this controversy." > Given what research tells us about the impact of discrimination and given that > the research further provides no justification for discriminating against > same-sex couples in marriage or in parenting, the Working Group strongly > recommended that APA support states in providing civil marriage to same-sex > couples and fully recognizing the parental rights of lesbians and gay men. > As a benefit for human welfare, it is important to point out that permitting > same-sex couples to marriage may especially benefit people who also experience > discrimination based on age, race, ethnicity, disability, gender and gender > identity, religion and socioeconomic status, said Cerbone. > According to the United States Accounting Office (2004), over 1,000 federal > statutory provisions exist in which marital status is a factor in determining a > person’s eligibility to receive various benefits, rights and privileges. > APA Working Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships: Armand Cerbone, > Ph.D., Chicago, Illinois; Beverly Greene, Ph.D., St. John_s University; Kristin > Hancock, Ph.D., Graduate School of Professional Psychology at John F. Kennedy > University; Lawrence A. Kurdek, Ph.D., Wright State University; Candace A. > McCullough, Ph.D., Bethesda, Maryland; Letitia Anne Peplau, Ph.D., University
Response:
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 04:31:43 GMT, Doug Anderson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<ethelthelogremovet…@yahoo.com> wrote: > Tony Miller <t…@cigardiary.com> writes: >> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 01:09:07 GMT, Doug Anderson >> <ethelthelogremovet…@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > Tony Miller <t…@cigardiary.com> writes: >> >> On 02 Aug 2004 22:01:47 GMT, Rootsman >> >> <roots…@aol.com> wrote: >> >> > Honolulu, Hawaii–Prohibiting civil marriage for same-sex couples is >> >> > discriminatory and unfairly denies such couples, their children and other >> >> > members of their families the legal, financial and social advantages of civil >> >> > marriage says the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Council of >> >> > Representatives in a resolution adopted here. >> >> It’s not discriminatory. Any gay person can take advantage of civil >> >> marriage in any of our 50 states. >> > It’s highly discriminatory. Any man can marry the woman of his choice >> > so long as she agrees. Not true for any woman (she can’t marry the >> > woman of her choice if that woman agrees). And so on. >> > Pretending that gays have the same choices as the rest of us is cruel >> > and sarcastic. >> Then men’s and ladies rest rooms are discriminatory. > Do you actually believe this to be a serious point?
Yeah, Dougie, it is. Answer it. -Tony — "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it’s time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.
Response:
Question:
Hi John Don’t know about his buz, but their is a cash car rental place 3 doors down from my shop. They do a booming business, especially for those people without credit cards who cannot rent from the places that require credit cards. Most usually have used cars rather than new cars also, but less than 5 years old cars. I’ve rented from them when my car was in the shop, it’s a simple no hassle place to rent a car! In lieu of the cash deposit, when I need a car from them, I run my bike up there and they park it in the service garage. It’s a cash business because they only take cash, checks and money orders. I guess if they took credit cards, they would be just like the car rental places that work on the credit card standard, no credit card, no car. TTUL Gary
Response:
Hello Nathan: 1. Get a good tax accountant 2. Any reasonable lender of money usually wants to see your tax assessments! (What you reorted to the tax man). I recently purchased an existing cash rental car biz, and am certainly no accountant, but am pretty well rolling, except for two issues which now rear their heads: – Two sets of books
2. Does anyone do this? The dilemma I face is that I need to show as much profit as possible to appease the lenders, since I need to get lines of credit in the very near future to purchase more cars, and possibly additional locations… and at the same time I want to obviously show as
1. little tax liability (especially being a cash biz and all) as possible. How does everyone do this? Or does anyone do this? I would kind of like to avoid the painful double-entry of every single thing I do, but if that’s the only way… Suggestions, comments, shortcuts to double-entry?
3. Short-cuts lead to disasters. – Amortization and depreciation
1. It will depend on in which country your in. Get a good tax accountant. Can anyone point me to a good web link on this (or book, but books take – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – time to order and I’d like get this done by the end of the month, but if there’s a good book that’s not at all deep in accountant-speak, send it)? For example, what qualifies, how does it work, how much to depreciate per month, how many months/years to amortize/depreciate things over? A basic accounting question I have is: Do I get to show the expense and the amortization for my non-refundable payments? For example, I lease my cars from another company, paying them P&I every month, and then to own the cars, pay 25% of current value at the end of 2 years… I get to write this expense against the bottom line, but do I also get to amortize or depreciate anything? How would that work? What else qualifies? Franchise fees? If I paid 10K in franchise fees for a 10 year agreement, do I get to have the 10K expense this year + the 83.xx per month amortization for the life of the 10 years? Links and comments appreciated… Thanks in advance! Nathan
Response:
I have to agree with all of the comments made by each person who responded to Nathan’s original two questions. Every response was right on target, and each was also informative. Nathan, I would sinply like to add one thing to what has already been said. If you insist on using two sets of books, how long will it be before you cannot tell which set of books is the "correct" set of books? You are playing with fire if you use two sets of books, and you will eventualy get burned by doing so. KISS definitely applies here. Use one set of books. Hire an accountant who will help you with tax planning as well as business planning. Your accountant will know how to pull the proper reports for obtaining financing, and at the same time keep your tax liability as low as possible. — Kenneth Reid, CPP MasterType Computer Services Professional Accounting and Payroll Services 6312 N. Milwaukee Avenue Chicago, IL 60646-3786 (773) 792-1910 (877) 754-1913 (Outside Chicago) (773) 792-1950 – FAX www.mcschicago.com www.mastertypecomputerservices.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start. Likewise under US law. CPAs know many ways to legally make financial statements look better and tax returns look worse. No way Mike. What we do is use the appropriate method of reporting for the purpose intended – off of one set of books. As an example, my clients commonly report a) to their bonding company using the percentage of completion accounting method as required by the bonding company, b) to the Washington State taxing authorities on the full accrual method as required by The State, c) and to the IRS on the completed contract method of accounting as permitted by the internal revenue code. Both the financial statements and federal tax returns prepared by me contain full disclosures and reconciliations regarding both financial and tax reporting. There is only one set of books. However, I trust you will agree that you chose an appropriate tax return method (completed contract) not because Internal Revenue made you choose it but because it resulted in the lowest tax. I will agree. Clients tend to be pushy that way. Internal Revenue might be equally satisfied by percentage of completion or accrual tax returns. Strange that you would mention that. As a matter of fact they seem to like % of completion better. Amazing. Completed contract is conceptionally so much cleaner (for tax purposes). The job is done – no guesswork – why wouldn’t they love it? Oh well, some people are just hard to understand. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
If anyone thinks that the direct communication used by this forum is ‘impolite,’ they really are living in an ivory tower. This forum, including Jim, is positively charming compared to some other news groups.
Thanks Ron. To the best of my knowledge this is the first time in many, many years I have been referred to as even remotely "charming". This could ruin my image. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
Sometime you might want to look in the google groups 35mm equipment news group history and look up the threads that are the character assassination of a fellow named Ed Romney. And, that is a relatively civilized group, close to the norm. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone thinks that the direct communication used by this forum is ‘impolite,’ they really are living in an ivory tower. This forum, including Jim, is positively charming compared to some other news groups. Thanks Ron. To the best of my knowledge this is the first time in many, many years I have been referred to as even remotely "charming". This could ruin my image. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
– * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant. * * From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia, * * the Seventh worst state for business, * * Ayn Rand was right *
Response:
If anyone thinks that the direct communication used by this forum is ‘impolite,’ they really are living in an ivory tower. This forum, including Jim, is positively charming compared to some other news groups.
… — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant. * * From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia, * * the Seventh worst state for business, * * Ayn Rand was right *
Response:
Reading some of your other discussions and posts, you could learn a little something about politeness from that newsgroup.
If you are referring to me personally, I can assure you that I have been told in far more explicit terms that I should go to "charm school". You would have to walk a while in my shoes to understand, however I can assure you that "polite" becomes real trite after you have had a few ex-clients go to jail for doing things you told them not to do. Or read about some ex-client in the newspaper who went to a more "polite" accountant and thereafter found himself facing a fraud charge brought by the IRS. I’ll pass on the "charm", thank you anyway. So anyway, thanks from those with informative posts…
You are more than welcome. Hope to hear from you again. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
Ya, I exist. Ya, I post while at work (Cisco has nothing to do with my individual outside of work endeavors, but is in fact quite supportive of employees’ outside ventures). And ya, I got much nicer treatment on the QB site… Reading some of your other discussions and posts, you could learn a little something about politeness from that newsgroup. Those who criticize "dumb" quesions obviously know everything, and knew everything from their first day of accounting, so I apologize for wasting your time. To the rest of you, I thank you. Just trying to learn something so that I may be more informed. As for the cash rental biz, Gary is right. It’s not just for consumers without credit cards, but for those who don’t quite make the ridiculously high 25 year old age restriction placed by some companies, like college students, etc. We also take credit cards, but cash customers make up about 50% of our rentals. So anyway, thanks from those with informative posts… Nathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, the guy appears to exist. According to google, he posted the same message to alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks at 2002-02-24 He got much nicer treatment on the QB site. He could be legit. If so, maybe he will come back and tell us he isn’t trying to scam anyone and we will talk about bifurcated accounting practices. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
Ya, I exist. Ya, I post while at work (Cisco has nothing to do with this, nor my outside-of-work endeavors, but is in fact quite supportive of employees’ outside ventures, but pity those have to play games because their company stifles them from learning). And ya, I got much nicer treatment on the QB site… Reading some of your other discussions and posts, you could learn a little something about politeness from that newsgroup. Those who criticize "dumb" quesions obviously know everything, and knew everything from their first day of accounting, so I apologize for wasting your time. Just trying to learn something so that I may be more informed. Only dumb question is one not asked… And you know what? I learned, and it surely wasn’t dumb for me because I just saved myself time, trouble, and possible legal problems from following poor advice… As for the cash rental biz, Gary is right. It’s not just for consumers without credit cards, but for those who don’t quite make the ridiculously high 25 year old age restriction placed by some companies, like college students, etc. We also take credit cards, but cash customers make up about 50% of our rentals. So anyway, thanks to those with informative responses… Nathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi John Don’t know about his buz, but their is a cash car rental place 3 doors down from my shop. They do a booming business, especially for those people without credit cards who cannot rent from the places that require credit cards. Most usually have used cars rather than new cars also, but less than 5 years old cars. I’ve rented from them when my car was in the shop, it’s a simple no hassle place to rent a car! In lieu of the cash deposit, when I need a car from them, I run my bike up there and they park it in the service garage. It’s a cash business because they only take cash, checks and money orders. I guess if they took credit cards, they would be just like the car rental places that work on the credit card standard, no credit card, no car. TTUL Gary
Response:
Thanks all for the informative responses. I myself am a newie to accounting in general (I’m an engineer by trade) and as I’m learning what I need to do my functions, it’s not difficult, but it surely is different… It was mentioned to me about the 2 books method, but now I see the problems with that. Just wasn’t knowledgeable enough to understand those drawbacks before. And I’ve hired what I’m told is an excellent CPA, so I hope that helps… Thanks to all.. Nathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to agree with all of the comments made by each person who responded to Nathan’s original two questions. Every response was right on target, and each was also informative. Nathan, I would sinply like to add one thing to what has already been said. If you insist on using two sets of books, how long will it be before you cannot tell which set of books is the "correct" set of books? You are playing with fire if you use two sets of books, and you will eventualy get burned by doing so. KISS definitely applies here. Use one set of books. Hire an accountant who will help you with tax planning as well as business planning. Your accountant will know how to pull the proper reports for obtaining financing, and at the same time keep your tax liability as low as possible. — Kenneth Reid, CPP MasterType Computer Services Professional Accounting and Payroll Services 6312 N. Milwaukee Avenue Chicago, IL 60646-3786 (773) 792-1910 (877) 754-1913 (Outside Chicago) (773) 792-1950 – FAX www.mcschicago.com www.mastertypecomputerservices.com Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start. Likewise under US law. CPAs know many ways to legally make financial statements look better and tax returns look worse. No way Mike. What we do is use the appropriate method of reporting for the purpose intended – off of one set of books. As an example, my clients commonly report a) to their bonding company using the percentage of completion accounting method as required by the bonding company, b) to the Washington State taxing authorities on the full accrual method as required by The State, c) and to the IRS on the completed contract method of accounting as permitted by the internal revenue code. Both the financial statements and federal tax returns prepared by me contain full disclosures and reconciliations regarding both financial and tax reporting. There is only one set of books. However, I trust you will agree that you chose an appropriate tax return method (completed contract) not because Internal Revenue made you choose it but because it resulted in the lowest tax. I will agree. Clients tend to be pushy that way. Internal Revenue might be equally satisfied by percentage of completion or accrual tax returns. Strange that you would mention that. As a matter of fact they seem to like % of completion better. Amazing. Completed contract is conceptionally so much cleaner (for tax purposes). The job is done – no guesswork – why wouldn’t they love it? Oh well, some people are just hard to understand. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
Thanks Gary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi John Don’t know about his buz, but their is a cash car rental place 3 doors down from my shop. They do a booming business, especially for those people without credit cards who cannot rent from the places that require credit cards. Most usually have used cars rather than new cars also, but less than 5 years old cars. I’ve rented from them when my car was in the shop, it’s a simple no hassle place to rent a car! In lieu of the cash deposit, when I need a car from them, I run my bike up there and they park it in the service garage. It’s a cash business because they only take cash, checks and money orders. I guess if they took credit cards, they would be just like the car rental places that work on the credit card standard, no credit card, no car. TTUL Gary
Response:
I recently purchased an existing cash rental car biz, and am certainly no accountant, but am pretty well rolling, except for two issues which now rear their heads: – Two sets of books Does anyone do this? The dilemma I face is that I need to show as much profit as possible to appease the lenders, since I need to get lines of credit in the very near future to purchase more cars, and possibly additional locations… and at the same time I want to obviously show as little tax liability (especially being a cash biz and all) as possible. How does everyone do this? Or does anyone do this? I would kind of like to avoid the painful double-entry of every single thing I do, but if that’s the only way… Suggestions, comments, shortcuts to double-entry? – Amortization and depreciation Can anyone point me to a good web link on this (or book, but books take time to order and I’d like get this done by the end of the month, but if there’s a good book that’s not at all deep in accountant-speak, send it)? For example, what qualifies, how does it work, how much to depreciate per month, how many months/years to amortize/depreciate things over? A basic accounting question I have is: Do I get to show the expense and the amortization for my non-refundable payments? For example, I lease my cars from another company, paying them P&I every month, and then to own the cars, pay 25% of current value at the end of 2 years… I get to write this expense against the bottom line, but do I also get to amortize or depreciate anything? How would that work? What else qualifies? Franchise fees? If I paid 10K in franchise fees for a 10 year agreement, do I get to have the 10K expense this year + the 83.xx per month amortization for the life of the 10 years? Links and comments appreciated… Thanks in advance! Nathan
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is an interesting post. At first blush it appears that it was posted by a Cisco employee while at work. There are "all types" in the world but for one person to ask so many basic but dumb questions makes me wonder. Is there such a thing as a "cash rental car biz"? I have never found a "cash" car rental. In fact I most just refuse to rent for cash. The post just seems to "bad" to be true. Yeah, we probably got trolled.
Actually, the guy appears to exist. According to google, he posted the same message to alt.comp.software.financial.quickbooks at 2002-02-24 He got much nicer treatment on the QB site. He could be legit. If so, maybe he will come back and tell us he isn’t trying to scam anyone and we will talk about bifurcated accounting practices. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start. Likewise under US law. CPAs know many ways to legally make financial statements look better and tax returns look worse. No way Mike. What we do is use the appropriate method of reporting for the purpose intended – off of one set of books. As an example, my clients commonly report a) to their bonding company using the percentage of completion accounting method as required by the bonding company, b) to the Washington State taxing authorities on the full accrual method as required by The State, c) and to the IRS on the completed contract method of accounting as permitted by the internal revenue code. Both the financial statements and federal tax returns prepared by me contain full disclosures and reconciliations regarding both financial and tax reporting. There is only one set of books. However, I trust you will agree that you chose an appropriate tax return method (completed contract) not because Internal Revenue made you choose it but because it resulted in the lowest tax.
I will agree. Clients tend to be pushy that way. Internal Revenue might be equally satisfied by percentage of completion or accrual tax returns.
Strange that you would mention that. As a matter of fact they seem to like % of completion better. Amazing. Completed contract is conceptionally so much cleaner (for tax purposes). The job is done – no guesswork – why wouldn’t they love it? Oh well, some people are just hard to understand. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
This is an interesting post. At first blush it appears that it was posted by a Cisco employee while at work. There are "all types" in the world but for one person to ask so many basic but dumb questions makes me wonder. Is there such a thing as a "cash rental car biz"? I have never found a "cash" car rental. In fact I most just refuse to rent for cash. The post just seems to "bad" to be true.
Yeah, we probably got trolled. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start. Likewise under US law. CPAs know many ways to legally make financial statements look better and tax returns look worse. No way Mike. What we do is use the appropriate method of reporting for the purpose intended – off of one set of books. As an example, my clients commonly report a) to their bonding company using the percentage of completion accounting method as required by the bonding company, b) to the Washington State taxing authorities on the full accrual method as required by The State, c) and to the IRS on the completed contract method of accounting as permitted by the internal revenue code. Both the financial statements and federal tax returns prepared by me contain full disclosures and reconciliations regarding both financial and tax reporting. There is only one set of books.
I certainly agree about the need for appropriate financial statement disclose and a single set of books. However, I trust you will agree that you chose an appropriate tax return method (completed contract) not because Internal Revenue made you choose it but because it resulted in the lowest tax. Internal Revenue might be equally satisfied by percentage of completion or accrual tax returns. Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 #1 QB Top Tester http://blocktax.com/DEC281998.htm Lowest QB Prices http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm New 2002 Features http://blocktax.com/QuickBooks_2002.htm Free 462p QB Book http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 180 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm QB/Intuit Feedback http://blocktax.com/
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I think you would find many knowledgeable people in this area housed in your local State Prison. Why not give them a try? Peter
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This is an interesting post. At first blush it appears that it was posted by a Cisco employee while at work. There are "all types" in the world but for one person to ask so many basic but dumb questions makes me wonder. Is there such a thing as a "cash rental car biz"? I have never found a "cash" car rental. In fact I most just refuse to rent for cash. The post just seems to "bad" to be true.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased an existing cash rental car biz, and am certainly no accountant, but am pretty well rolling, except for two issues which now rear their heads: – Two sets of books Does anyone do this? The dilemma I face is that I need to show as much profit as possible to appease the lenders, since I need to get lines of credit in the very near future to purchase more cars, and possibly additional locations… and at the same time I want to obviously show as little tax liability (especially being a cash biz and all) as possible. How does everyone do this? Or does anyone do this? I would kind of like to avoid the painful double-entry of every single thing I do, but if that’s the only way… Suggestions, comments, shortcuts to double-entry? – Amortization and depreciation Can anyone point me to a good web link on this (or book, but books take time to order and I’d like get this done by the end of the month, but if there’s a good book that’s not at all deep in accountant-speak, send it)? For example, what qualifies, how does it work, how much to depreciate per month, how many months/years to amortize/depreciate things over? A basic accounting question I have is: Do I get to show the expense and the amortization for my non-refundable payments? For example, I lease my cars from another company, paying them P&I every month, and then to own the cars, pay 25% of current value at the end of 2 years… I get to write this expense against the bottom line, but do I also get to amortize or depreciate anything? How would that work? What else qualifies? Franchise fees? If I paid 10K in franchise fees for a 10 year agreement, do I get to have the 10K expense this year + the 83.xx per month amortization for the life of the 10 years? Links and comments appreciated… Thanks in advance! Nathan
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Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start. Likewise under US law. CPAs know many ways to legally make financial statements look better and tax returns look worse.
No way Mike. What we do is use the appropriate method of reporting for the purpose intended – off of one set of books. As an example, my clients commonly report a) to their bonding company using the percentage of completion accounting method as required by the bonding company, b) to the Washington State taxing authorities on the full accrual method as required by The State, c) and to the IRS on the completed contract method of accounting as permitted by the internal revenue code. Both the financial statements and federal tax returns prepared by me contain full disclosures and reconciliations regarding both financial and tax reporting. There is only one set of books. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
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Nathan The way you have worded this, like the accountants have pointed out, it sounds quite illegal, anywhere. I’m not an accountant, but I have double accounting records for each company, not to defraud, but to make life a little simpler for me and for my accountant. I prefer using the cash method of accounting, but the best tax breaks seem to come through the accrual method. Because I have a few smaller businesses, they are all owned by a parent company that I own. The accountant keeps all the records and books of the parent company and I send him the records for each individual company. Because lenders always want the assets in your name and your personal John Doe on the loans and mortgages, they have to be moved out of the company name into your personal name, which basically defeats all of the accounting records having any meaning and negates whatever liability insurance the company carries. Needless to say, the money from the loan must go to the company for which it was obtained and the assets removed as collateral and then restored. My tax attorney and CPA both work together, which is a great benefit, that way both hands know what the other is doing. In any case, the parent company ends up with the physcial asset as collateral and the original company ends up with the money. In the end, at tax time, all the companies owned by the parent company are figured with the parent company. I don’t know how this is done by the accountants and I don’t really care, they keep everything legit and on the up and up. But it does leave the cash accounting records quite clear and showing much more profit than each individual company itself really makes, but the books are not falsified in any way shape or fashion. It’s just that much of the overhead and expenses fall back onto the parent company, if I understand what the accountant is doing correctly. Which I may not. TTUL Gary
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - Two sets of books Does anyone do this? The dilemma I face is that I need to show as much profit as possible to appease the lenders, since I need to get lines of credit in the very near future to purchase more cars, and possibly additional locations… and at the same time I want to obviously show as little tax liability (especially being a cash biz and all) as possible. How does everyone do this? Or does anyone do this? I would kind of like to avoid the painful double-entry of every single thing I do, but if that’s the only way… Suggestions, comments, shortcuts to double-entry? Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start. Likewise under US law.
CPAs know many ways to legally make financial statements look better and tax returns look worse. For example, programs like QB instantly convert from cash to accrual & back, which can make a big difference. You also can use different inventory and depreciation methods and report on different fiscal years. Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 #1 QB Top Tester http://blocktax.com/DEC281998.htm Lowest QB Prices http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm New 2002 Features http://blocktax.com/QuickBooks_2002.htm Free 462p QB Book http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 180 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm QB/Intuit Feedback http://blocktax.com/
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I recently purchased an existing cash rental car biz, and am certainly no accountant, but am pretty well rolling, except for two issues which now rear their heads: – Two sets of books Does anyone do this?
Yes indeed, there are many dishonest people in the world who do not care about anyone but themselves and live their lives screwing others. I hope this will give you great comfort in knowing that you are not alone, but you should take care not to associate with any of these people because they will screw you given the chance. The dilemma I face is that I need to show as much – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – profit as possible to appease the lenders, since I need to get lines of credit in the very near future to purchase more cars, and possibly additional locations… and at the same time I want to obviously show as little tax liability (especially being a cash biz and all) as possible. How does everyone do this? Or does anyone do this? I would kind of like to avoid the painful double-entry of every single thing I do, but if that’s the only way… Suggestions, comments, shortcuts to double-entry? – Amortization and depreciation Can anyone point me to a good web link on this (or book, but books take time to order and I’d like get this done by the end of the month, but if there’s a good book that’s not at all deep in accountant-speak, send it)? For example, what qualifies, how does it work, how much to depreciate per month, how many months/years to amortize/depreciate things over? A basic accounting question I have is: Do I get to show the expense and the amortization for my non-refundable payments? For example, I lease my cars from another company, paying them P&I every month, and then to own the cars, pay 25% of current value at the end of 2 years… I get to write this expense against the bottom line, but do I also get to amortize or depreciate anything? How would that work? What else qualifies? Franchise fees? If I paid 10K in franchise fees for a 10 year agreement, do I get to have the 10K expense this year + the 83.xx per month amortization for the life of the 10 years? Links and comments appreciated… Thanks in advance! Nathan
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I recently purchased an existing cash rental car biz, and am certainly no accountant, but am pretty well rolling, except for two issues which now rear their heads: You have not stated in which tax and legal jurisdiction your business is domiciled, which would be essential information. Due to the nature of your questions, you should definitely seek the advice and counsel of a qualified, professional accountant in your area and hire a qualified book-keeper.
Ditto the above. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - Two sets of books Does anyone do this? The dilemma I face is that I need to show as much profit as possible to appease the lenders, since I need to get lines of credit in the very near future to purchase more cars, and possibly additional locations… and at the same time I want to obviously show as little tax liability (especially being a cash biz and all) as possible. How does everyone do this? Or does anyone do this? I would kind of like to avoid the painful double-entry of every single thing I do, but if that’s the only way… Suggestions, comments, shortcuts to double-entry? Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start.
Likewise under US law. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - Amortization and depreciation Can anyone point me to a good web link on this (or book, but books take time to order and I’d like get this done by the end of the month, but if there’s a good book that’s not at all deep in accountant-speak, send it)? For example, what qualifies, how does it work, how much to depreciate per month, how many months/years to amortize/depreciate things over? A basic accounting question I have is: Do I get to show the expense and the amortization for my non-refundable payments? For example, I lease my cars from another company, paying them P&I every month, and then to own the cars, pay 25% of current value at the end of 2 years… I get to write this expense against the bottom line, but do I also get to amortize or depreciate anything? How would that work? What else qualifies? Franchise fees? If I paid 10K in franchise fees for a 10 year agreement, do I get to have the 10K expense this year + the 83.xx per month amortization for the life of the 10 years? Links and comments appreciated… If you want to get this done before the end of February, you must consult a professional accountant (not necessarily auditor) tomorrow morning. If he is serious, he will not help you maintain two sets of books to defraud both your lenders and the tax administration. There may be some differences between tax and statutory valuations but such differences often lead to journal entries ("deferred taxes") in the statutory accounts.
Ditto the above. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA (Certified Fraud Examiner, Certified Public Accountant) http://survivalworks.com
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I recently purchased an existing cash rental car biz, and am certainly no accountant, but am pretty well rolling, except for two issues which now rear their heads:
You have not stated in which tax and legal jurisdiction your business is domiciled, which would be essential information. Due to the nature of your questions, you should definitely seek the advice and counsel of a qualified, professional accountant in your area and hire a qualified book-keeper. – Two sets of books Does anyone do this? The dilemma I face is that I need to show as much profit as possible to appease the lenders, since I need to get lines of credit in the very near future to purchase more cars, and possibly additional locations… and at the same time I want to obviously show as little tax liability (especially being a cash biz and all) as possible. How does everyone do this? Or does anyone do this? I would kind of like to avoid the painful double-entry of every single thing I do, but if that’s the only way… Suggestions, comments, shortcuts to double-entry?
Under Swiss laws, your outlined procedure would constitute both tax fraud and falsification of documents, a federal felony. In addition, it might well constitute occupation fraud and another count of falsification of documents concerning your relationships to your lenders. "Short cuts" are boomerangs in accounting. Do it right from the start. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - Amortization and depreciation Can anyone point me to a good web link on this (or book, but books take time to order and I’d like get this done by the end of the month, but if there’s a good book that’s not at all deep in accountant-speak, send it)? For example, what qualifies, how does it work, how much to depreciate per month, how many months/years to amortize/depreciate things over? A basic accounting question I have is: Do I get to show the expense and the amortization for my non-refundable payments? For example, I lease my cars from another company, paying them P&I every month, and then to own the cars, pay 25% of current value at the end of 2 years… I get to write this expense against the bottom line, but do I also get to amortize or depreciate anything? How would that work? What else qualifies? Franchise fees? If I paid 10K in franchise fees for a 10 year agreement, do I get to have the 10K expense this year + the 83.xx per month amortization for the life of the 10 years? Links and comments appreciated…
If you want to get this done before the end of February, you must consult a professional accountant (not necessarily auditor) tomorrow morning. If he is serious, he will not help you maintain two sets of books to defraud both your lenders and the tax administration. There may be some differences between tax and statutory valuations but such differences often lead to journal entries ("deferred taxes") in the statutory accounts. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": DES Ft. Bragg Mossad supercomputer CIA Arafat Ft. Meade Shin Beth KGB
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