Question:
More later. They’ve got me kinda busy at work tonight. Yes the Sens are more of a finesse club than a goon club,
You speak as though there is nothing in between. You gonna refer to the Wings as a "goon team" now? This has become a semantic discussion, now, considering the SWEEP. But, since I love talking hockey with anybody, anywhere, I have no problem continuing this one. Don’t quit on me.
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More later. They’ve got me kinda busy at work tonight. Yes the Sens are more of a finesse club than a goon club, You speak as though there is nothing in between.
No, that’s why I said ‘more of a finesse club’. There are all shades of teams out there, this year the Leafs are the epitome of the goons You gonna refer to the Wings as a "goon team" now?
I’d say the Dead Things <G play a more blended version of the two then either the Sens or the Meat Loafs. This has become a semantic discussion, now, considering the SWEEP. But, since I love talking hockey with anybody, anywhere, I have no problem continuing this one. Don’t quit on me.
The only thing really left for me now is to cheer for who ever it playing Toronto. All three of my fav teams are gone (Sens, Bs Habs). Joseph — ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM What a long strange trip it’s been! I’m a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess,
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The third doctor said. "I like to operate on Toronto Maple Leaf fans. No guts, no brain, no spine and their heads and butts are interchangable."
Leafs beat Sens in game 2, 3 – 0 Wings lose to Kings in Game 3, 2 – 1 in LA. Detroit leads series 2 games to 1
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The third doctor said. "I like to operate on Toronto Maple Leaf fans. No guts, no brain, no spine and their heads and butts are interchangable." Leafs beat Sens in game 2, 3 – 0
CJ, you’d have to be from Ottawa to understand the absolute hatred felt by Sens fans towards Toronto. It’s not just being beatenm we’ve been beaten by other teams and while disheartening, it’s the arrogance with which they react to winning. We also aren’t forgetting that the Leafs brass tried to throw their weight around to prevent Ottawa from getting this team in the first place. It’s a pure gut hatred towards the Toronto team, and in some cases, its supporters. And the final point is the cheap, dirty hockey that Toronto plays. Watching them makes me thing of the old Bean Town Brawlers and Broadstreet Bullies as powder puff teams. Now, if the refs would put their glasses on, buy some ‘nads and do their jobs, this would be a much better series. Then the games would be decided by who could play the best hockey, not who could throw the most cross checks without being called. Joseph Wings lose to Kings in Game 3, 2 – 1 in LA. Detroit leads series 2 games to 1
– ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM What a long strange trip it’s been! I’m a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess,
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a pure gut hatred towards the Toronto team, and in some cases, its supporters. And the final point is the cheap, dirty hockey that Toronto plays. Watching them makes me thing of the old Bean Town Brawlers and Broadstreet Bullies as powder puff teams. Now, if the refs would put their glasses on, buy some ‘nads and do their jobs, this would be a much better series. Then the games would be decided by who could play the best hockey, not who could throw the most cross checks without being called. Eddie Shore,……old time hockey! Seriously, I’m not one for freewheeling old Habs, Oilers kinda hockey, I think hitting is an integral and *necessary* part of the game. Grinding and pounding in front of the crease heats my blood.(and I’m a netminder)
I’m a defenseman and I know about keeping the crease clear and keeping the shooting lane clear so my goalie can see the puck, but that’s not what I’m talking about. What I am talking about is, repeated crosschecks to the back of the neck, high sticks that, if some of the Sens weren’t wearing eye guards, could take out an eye, kneelifts to the goalies face. This is what is I’m talking about. That shit is happening in every series. Watching Game three, what struck me was the floating, yes, floating. When the Sens *did* hit, it was usually a flagrant interference call. (good penalties in my book BTW, they were goal savers)
Yes the Sens are more of a finesse club than a goon club, like the Leafs, and they probably should have hired a few goons of their own. Personally I’d rather watch a game based on hockey skill then on seeing if you can injure the other teams players. This whole thing strikes me as sour grapes.
Let’s leave Don Cherry out of this. As difficult as it has been for ANY of the Canadian teams to remain financially solvent, expansion
Well, it’s a lot easier for the Leafs, their rink was 80% paid for by taxpayer dollars, the Sens even had to pay for their own interchange. The Sens have to pay a tax of ‘Non-Canadian entertainment’ the the Leafs don’t. The Leafs were given a prime location, the Sens developed a dead farm including running their own sewer, water, hydro and telephone lines (and then getting hit with a land tax hike because all these improvements increased the value of the property) and all this by the same government that gave the Leafs half of their support. Am I bitter towards the Leafs? Hell ya! Joseph — ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM What a long strange trip it’s been! I’m a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess,
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Wings up one game to none. LEAFS BEAT SENS 1 -0 IN OVERTIME!!!!!! <g — CJ da Yooper icq #96138398 "…..you can always tell when you’re in God’s country,…all the trees point to Him"
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YAHOOOOOOOOO……EH? Go Leafs, GO…. From a Former Hockey Fanatic, Kats — *** The only thing that stays the same is change ***
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wings up one game to none. LEAFS BEAT SENS 1 -0 IN OVERTIME!!!!!! <g — CJ da Yooper icq #96138398 "…..you can always tell when you’re in God’s country,…all the trees point to Him"
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Wings up one game to none. LEAFS BEAT SENS 1 -0 IN OVERTIME!!!!!! <g
There were three surgeons talking about their favourite kind of patient. The first doctor said, "I like to operate on Accountants. All their parts are numbers and go into columns." The second doctor said, "I like to operate on electricians. All of their parts are colour coded." The third doctor said. "I like to operate on Toronto Maple Leaf fans. No guts, no brain, no spine and their heads and butts are interchangable." — ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM What a long strange trip it’s been! I’m a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess,
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Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nicholas Temple wrote: > In article <6vj5of$ne…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, raffa…@my-dejanews.com > says… > >In article <907820633.108…@news.bluegrass.net>, > > ntem…@bluegrass.net (Nicholas Temple) wrote: > >> In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, JH…@IX.Netcom.Com says… > >> >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they > >> >do to you if you succeed? > >> > John II > >> OK, John II, you ask a hard one. If I remember my history correctly, if > you > >> succeeded in some time and places, the Church would not allow you to be > >> buried in consecrated ground. If you tried, but failed, it was a capital > >> offense and the state would do to you what you failed to do to yourself. > >> Do you know the words to the Theme Song for M*A*S*H? If not, here they > are, > >> without guitar cords: > >> SUICIDE IS PAINLESS (MASH THEME SONG) > >> (Mike Altman and Johnny Mandel) > >> Through early morning fog I see > >> Visions of the things to be, > >> The pains that are withheld for me, > >> I realize and I can see… > >> That suicide is painless, > >> It brings on many changes > >> And I can take or leave it if I please. > >> The game of life is hard to play, > >> I’m going to loose it anyway, > >> The loosin’ card I’ll someday lay; > >> So this is all I have to say… > >> That suicide is painless, > >> It brings on many changes > >> And I can take or leave it if I please. > >> The only way to win is cheat > >> And lay it down before I’m beat > >> And to another give my seat > >> For that’s the only painless feat. > >> That suicide is painless, > >> It brings on many changes > >> And I can take or leave it if I please. > >> And you can do the same thing if you please. > >Nick, that’s a real surprise. > >Not about the Church, since it was considered a major sin. > >But I was JK about death penalty, and now you tell > >that this is was legal in certain states? Could you give details? > >Another point. I’ve never seen the movie M*A*S*H, but I suppose > >that it’s a comedy on militaries, why the main them happens to > >concern suicide? > >– > >All the best > > Raffaele > Hi, Raffaele! > The death penality for attempted suicide was in effect in the United States, > to the best of my knowledge, only in colonial times, in New England, where my > Pilgrim ancestors of the United Church of Christ set up a theocracy after > fleeing England to America for religious freedom. (They also hanged some > witches in Salem, as my might remember). > However, if my memory serves me right, it was part of the medieval laws of > Great Britian, France, and, I think, Germany. I’d have to do some research to > be sure. > Shalom, > Nick
Nick, It seems to me that making the penalty for suicide to be death is one of the stupidist things I can think of. I mean, really. You’re convicted of trying to commit suicide, then for that crime, you’re killed. Duh. You wanted to be dead, and now you are. Somewhere, I see government involvement in this… (laugh) If you succeed, then I guess they could put your body under "house arrest". You know, one of those collars around your ankles so they’ll know if you go anywhere. I guess the only problem I might have with that would be if I were the guy who was keeping track of the movement of the collars, and they started to disperse around the city. That is, without an earthquake or other "natural" event, including grave robbing. It would mean that the dead were up and walking, and I think that I wouldn’t be too concerned about whatever laws I might break as I left town! John II
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In article <361C0996.2718C…@hotmail.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - bshep…@vt.edu wrote: > John II, > John H Schneider II wrote: > > Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they > > do to you if you succeed? > I was having a little discussion about this very topic on another > newsgroup recently. From what I heard, your will can be declared null > and void. The police can launch a full-scale investigation into your > former life. IOW, it may not be fun for your relatives, although they > can’t do much to you personally, of course. > > John II > Brad
Hi Brad, John and all! Thank you Brad for your information. In fact, it happens that some "incidents" are actually suicides, so disguised to avoid such painful consequences. This may happens everywhere, for suicide is frowned upon in almost all cultures (perhaps that Japan is an exception). What is actually done depends from the country. I’ve no idea of the procedure you’ve described in Italy, I don’t think that this happens here. Social disapproval may anyway be a consequence, I assume that this depends on circumstances. If there is somebody who tries to discredit the relatives of the suicide, for instance. OTOH; other countries may have death penalty for attempted suicide, but I’m not sure. JK. Brad, why you say "another newsgroup" and don’t use our acronym, so to promote the list? Is that ASH? 
To all: should I leave in the FAQ the mention that messages *promoting* suicide are off-topic here? I mean that discuss suicide in a topical way (like in this thread) is acceptable. — All the best Raffaele <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/> ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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Nick, Nicholas Temple wrote: > Thanks, Brad. > After a few hours sleep I feel enough energy to follow these and see where > they lead.
Here’s a few more that I ran across tonight: http://www.headworks.com/ http://suicidal.com/ http://depression.com/ Note to Ric: you may want to add these to the list of links for the ASL Web Page. Note to Eliza: some of these pages (specifically the last link) contain information on SAD. > Shalom, > Nick
Brad
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Nick, Nicholas Temple wrote: > You know, Brad, that’s how I found the data I posted: I just stumbled onto > it. Actually I was looking for data on depression and loneliness when my > search engine took me there. > I’m still looking for info. on any relationship between depression and > lonelieness, in case anyone can directe me.
Well, I posted last night about ABC having an article and self-test on depression. Here’s some addresses that I have: http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb/live.htm http://www.lollie.com/suicide.html http://www.frt.com/joyin.htm http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/ptdep.htm http://www.ndmda.org/ http://www.nimh.nih.gov/dart/index.htm http://www.depression.org/ http://www.abcnews.com/sections/living/InYourHead/allinyourhead.html The URLs near the beginning of the list deal with suicide (they’re anti-suicide). The latter ones are for depression. Note to Ric: I did not send someof these URLs to you with my other list, since I was unaware of them at the time. Therefore, you may wish to add these to your list for the Links section of the ASL Web Page. I don’t think any of these focus exclusively on social relationships and lack thereof, but they ought to contain some information on loneliness-related stuff. > Shalom and hugs, > Nick
Brad
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Thanks, Brad. After a few hours sleep I feel enough energy to follow these and see where they lead. Shalom, Nick In article <36242812.33B53…@hotmail.com>, superth…@hotmail.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nick, >Nicholas Temple wrote: >> You know, Brad, that’s how I found the data I posted: I just stumbled onto >> it. Actually I was looking for data on depression and loneliness when my >> search engine took me there. >> I’m still looking for info. on any relationship between depression and >> lonelieness, in case anyone can directe me. >Well, I posted last night about ABC having an article and self-test on >depression. Here’s some addresses that I have: >http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ >http://members.tripod.com/~Veb/live.htm >http://www.lollie.com/suicide.html >http://www.frt.com/joyin.htm >http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/ptdep.htm >http://www.ndmda.org/ >http://www.nimh.nih.gov/dart/index.htm >http://www.depression.org/ >http://www.abcnews.com/sections/living/InYourHead/allinyourhead.html >The URLs near the beginning of the list deal with suicide (they’re >anti-suicide). The latter ones are for depression. Note to Ric: I did not send >someof these URLs to you with my other list, since I was unaware of them at the >time. Therefore, you may wish to add these to your list for the Links section of >the ASL Web Page. >I don’t think any of these focus exclusively on social relationships and lack >thereof, but they ought to contain some information on loneliness-related stuff. >> Shalom and hugs, >> Nick >Brad
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Nick, Nicholas Temple wrote: > As our discussion goes on I thought I’d do a little research on suicide. > Below is what I found regarding two countries, Canada and the United States.
Here’s what I found yesterday, by accident: For 1995, there were 32,000 suicides and 22,562 homicides. There is one suicide every fifteen minutes, and one attempt every minute. Suicide rates have more than doubled for those aged 10-24. There’s a new anti-suicide technique being implemented, called QPR. You Question the person about his suicidal thoughts and feelings, then you Persuade the person to get help and finally you Refer him to someone who can offer assistance. There’s many suicide-related newsgroups, including alt.suicide, alt.suicide.holiday, alt.suicide.finals, alt.suicide.methods, alt.suicide.recovery, alt.gothic.suicide and alc.suicide. I could babble on and on, describing what types of people use what methods, giving out web sites for both pro- and anti-suicide organizations (is this allowed, Raffaele 
?) and plenty of other stuff, but I’ll spare y’all. > Nick
Brad
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You know, Brad, that’s how I found the data I posted: I just stumbled onto it. Actually I was looking for data on depression and loneliness when my search engine took me there. I’m still looking for info. on any relationship between depression and lonelieness, in case anyone can directe me. Shalom and hugs, Nick In article <3623DDC5.1248A…@hotmail.com>, superth…@hotmail.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nick, >Nicholas Temple wrote: >> As our discussion goes on I thought I’d do a little research on suicide. >> Below is what I found regarding two countries, Canada and the United States. >Here’s what I found yesterday, by accident: >For 1995, there were 32,000 suicides and 22,562 homicides. There is one suicide >every fifteen minutes, and one attempt every minute. Suicide rates have more >than doubled for those aged 10-24. There’s a new anti-suicide technique being >implemented, called QPR. You Question the person about his suicidal thoughts and >feelings, then you Persuade the person to get help and finally you Refer him to >someone who can offer assistance. >There’s many suicide-related newsgroups, including alt.suicide, >alt.suicide.holiday, alt.suicide.finals, alt.suicide.methods, >alt.suicide.recovery, alt.gothic.suicide and alc.suicide. >I could babble on and on, describing what types of people use what methods, >giving out web sites for both pro- and anti-suicide organizations (is this >allowed, Raffaele ?) and plenty of other stuff, but I’ll spare y’all. >> Nick >Brad
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As our discussion goes on I thought I’d do a little research on suicide. Below is what I found regarding two countries, Canada and the United States. Nick Canada Source: Causes of Death 1992 (Minister of Industry, Science and Technology, Statistics Canada, Health Statistics Division, September 1994) More information: http://www.statcan.ca/ Suicide is the fifth leading cause of death in Canada, with 3709 deaths recorded in 1992. This approximates to around one death every two hours. Of these, men account for 2923 (one death every three hours – fifth leading cause) and women account for 786 (one death every ten hours – tenth leading cause). Men were more likely to use firearms to commit suicide: 991 of the men compared with only 59 of the women. __________ United States Source: Centres for Disease Control, National Centre for Injury Prevention and Control; nosuicide.com; National Institute for Mental Health More information: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/10lc92c.htm; http://www.nosuicide.com:80/stats.htm; http://www.nimh.nih.gov/ Suicide is the ninth leading cause of death in the US, with 31204 deaths recorded in 1995. This approximates to around one death every seventeen minutes. There are more suicides than homicides each year in the United States. In 1993, the suicide rate was 11.3/100,000, and suicide accounted for 1.4% of all deaths (56% of deaths were from heart disease and tumours). Two-thirds of all suicides under 25 were committed with firearms (accounting for most of the increase in suicides from 1980 to 1992). The second most common method was hanging, third was poisoning. 61% of all suicides involve firearms. From 1952 to 1992, the incidence of suicide among teens and young adults tripled. Today, it is the third leading cause of death for teenagers aged 15-19 (after motor vehicle accidents and unintentional injury). Suicide is increasing, particularly for those under 14 and for those over 65. In young people, the suicide rate is relatively low (13.5/100,000 in 1993), but it is still a leading cause of death. In older people, the suicide rate is very high, but it is not a leading cause of death (eg in white males over 85, the suicide rate in 1993 was 73.6/100,000). In all age groups, men commit suicide successfully more than women (around four times as much). In young people (15-24), the average ratio is 5.5:1. The ratio increases with age within this group. In article <6vvle8$jv…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, djr…@indigo.ie says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <6vl1rg$67…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > djr…@indigo.ie wrote: >> Hi there Damien! >> Well met in ASL (or we talked before?)! >I can’t remember. If we haven’t *HUGS* and if we have *BIGGER HUGS* for >forgetting. >> How sad, this reminds a post of Nick Temple yesterday on the same >> theme. >I know. At least the modern church is slightly more understanding. >> > There’s still a huge stigma attached and if a suicide is reported on the >news >> > they say that the person died of a broken heart. >> And yes, trying to disguise a suicide may be done by many, so stats >> are also alterated and the official number of suicides is underestimated. >> OTOH, this helps to avoid to provide examples, encouragining imitation. >> This is maybe only a theory. >*nods* I think this is more of a way to shield the public from the truth. >Actually there have been several reports that suicide is on the increase in >Ireland. And Aware (an organisation which helps people with depression) has >been trying to make people aware of how much pain a suicide must have been >going through. >> And since you’ve a site, why don’t submit your address to Ric to >> add it to the ASL WebSite? (or you did already?). You’ll r(i)each >> it from my ASL page >> <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/asl.html>. >i did *giggles* though tripod ate my pages and it’s taken me all day to fix:< >– >Peace, >Damien (http://members.tripod.com/~djryan/). >———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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Wow, Chloe! People under the guise of religion can do some terrible things. Just thinking of parents of a stillborn having to sneak into a cemetary so thei child may be buried in sanctified ground makes my heart ache. I’m glad I don;t have to deal with those issues. If I’m not sure a grave has been blessed, I do it anyway, no matter at whose funeral I’m officiating. And I have had more than my share of suicide funerals: 5 in the first 4 years of my ordained ministery, which is more than enough for any cleric. I even had to inform the mother of one of her son’s suicide. I hope we are open enough now to see the light of God’s love for every one, including suicides. Thanks for sharing. You input has opened my mind again to a terrible issue — and the way the Church has often be so, uh, unchristian. Oh — and, yes, I beleive one of commits suidice IS a victim. Hags from Kentucky, Nick In article <6vl7fn$…@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, cj…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi again, Damien! >Same here in Quebec, with catholicism anyway, where it was >not only so (might still be actually, not sure) in the case >of suicide "victims" (? can one be said to be the victim of >their own suicide..?) nut also for still born babies…. >Imagien the family, then in both cases, in that time of >pain, made to feel that way….Sometimes one can wonder >where the spirit was in what letter that had it be so…. >I know personally of two fervent catholic parents that >went like thieves at night to burry their still born child >in the "blessed" part of the cimetary…Such a little shy and >observant couple, really, that hearing their story >made me really imagine the pain that must have been >for them…They felt so ashamed for having disobeyed, >and yet just could not leave their baby "rejected" by >their own Church… It made me wonder if in the "love one >another" rules and in their >paragraphs and articles and subdivisons of it all, compassion, >"Love for one another" had not exactly been totally left >out in the end…. >Chloe > (djr…@indigo.ie) writes: >> Hi everyone, >> I hope you don’t mind me butting in but I’d like to add that until a few >> years ago anyone who committed suicide in Ireland wasn’t allowed to be buried >> in holy ground and couldn’t even get last rites. >> There’s still a huge stigma attached and if a suicide is reported on the news >> they say that the person died of a broken heart. >> — >> Peace, >> Damien (http://members.tripod.com/~djryan/). >> ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- >> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own >–
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Oh, you can tell the Mormons that it’s okay, I already bought my tickets. Chloe "Ollie The Sandcastle" (ol…@sandcastle.freeserve.co.uk) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In the good old days of religious superstition and the inquisition etc, > suicide was a good thing as it was a scandal for some rich and influential > family and priests liked to put such families under their thumb if they > found out about it. It’s all down to power, really. BTW the Mormons want my > birth records (+ everyone else’s) because they want me to go to heaven. I’d > sooner become an Adversary for the new millenium. > John H Schneider II wrote in message <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>… >>Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they >>do to you if you succeed? >> John II
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Raff, and Nick, Hi you two! I am catching up with many posts that I coudl not read nor see before all at once arriving on my screen. Just a quickie here (hey you two, behave!!:):). To say that: It is when we leave the box opened that the gifts unwrap itself. (Now Ric will have to find the ""rrreson" under those words!;-):):)) Chloe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nicholas Temple (ntem…@bluegrass.net) writes: > In article <6vj5of$ne…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, raffa…@my-dejanews.com > says… >>In article <907820633.108…@news.bluegrass.net>, >> ntem…@bluegrass.net (Nicholas Temple) wrote: >>> In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, JH…@IX.Netcom.Com says… >>> >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they >>> >do to you if you succeed? >>> > John II >>> OK, John II, you ask a hard one. If I remember my history correctly, if > you >>> succeeded in some time and places, the Church would not allow you to be >>> buried in consecrated ground. If you tried, but failed, it was a capital >>> offense and the state would do to you what you failed to do to yourself. >>> Do you know the words to the Theme Song for M*A*S*H? If not, here they > are, >>> without guitar cords: >>> SUICIDE IS PAINLESS (MASH THEME SONG) >>> (Mike Altman and Johnny Mandel) >>> Through early morning fog I see >>> Visions of the things to be, >>> The pains that are withheld for me, >>> I realize and I can see… >>> That suicide is painless, >>> It brings on many changes >>> And I can take or leave it if I please. >>> The game of life is hard to play, >>> I’m going to loose it anyway, >>> The loosin’ card I’ll someday lay; >>> So this is all I have to say… >>> That suicide is painless, >>> It brings on many changes >>> And I can take or leave it if I please. >>> The only way to win is cheat >>> And lay it down before I’m beat >>> And to another give my seat >>> For that’s the only painless feat. >>> That suicide is painless, >>> It brings on many changes >>> And I can take or leave it if I please. >>> And you can do the same thing if you please. >>Nick, that’s a real surprise. >>Not about the Church, since it was considered a major sin. >>But I was JK about death penalty, and now you tell >>that this is was legal in certain states? Could you give details? >>Another point. I’ve never seen the movie M*A*S*H, but I suppose >>that it’s a comedy on militaries, why the main them happens to >>concern suicide? >>– >>All the best >> Raffaele > Hi, Raffaele! > The death penality for attempted suicide was in effect in the United States, > to the best of my knowledge, only in colonial times, in New England, where my > Pilgrim ancestors of the United Church of Christ set up a theocracy after > fleeing England to America for religious freedom. (They also hanged some > witches in Salem, as my might remember). > However, if my memory serves me right, it was part of the medieval laws of > Great Britian, France, and, I think, Germany. I’d have to do some research to > be sure. > Shalom, > Nick
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In article <6vkmsb$n5…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, djr…@indigo.ie says… >Hi everyone, >I hope you don’t mind me butting in but I’d like to add that until a few >years ago anyone who committed suicide in Ireland wasn’t allowed to be buried >in holy ground and couldn’t even get last rites. >There’s still a huge stigma attached and if a suicide is reported on the news >they say that the person died of a broken heart. >– >Peace, >Damien (http://members.tripod.com/~djryan/).
Thanks, Damien, and you’re not butting in. Welcome aboard! And you are so right. It hasn’t bee that long — a couple of years at most and less than that is some places — when Church (Cannon law) as well as Church inspired civil law prevented buriel in consecrated ground. Thanks for the additional info. about how suicides are reported: "died of a broken heart." An interesting euphemism! Shalom from Kentucky, Nick
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In article <361D9A60….@IX.Netcom.Com>, JH…@IX.Netcom.Com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nicholas Temple wrote: >> In article <6vj5of$ne…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, raffa…@my-dejanews.com >> says… >> >In article <907820633.108…@news.bluegrass.net>, >> > ntem…@bluegrass.net (Nicholas Temple) wrote: >> >> In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, JH…@IX.Netcom.Com says… >> >> >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they >> >> >do to you if you succeed? >> >> > John II >> >> OK, John II, you ask a hard one. If I remember my history correctly, if >> you >> >> succeeded in some time and places, the Church would not allow you to be >> >> buried in consecrated ground. If you tried, but failed, it was a capital >> >> offense and the state would do to you what you failed to do to yourself. >> >> Do you know the words to the Theme Song for M*A*S*H? If not, here they >> are, >> >> without guitar cords: >> >> SUICIDE IS PAINLESS (MASH THEME SONG) >> >> (Mike Altman and Johnny Mandel) >> >> Through early morning fog I see >> >> Visions of the things to be, >> >> The pains that are withheld for me, >> >> I realize and I can see… >> >> That suicide is painless, >> >> It brings on many changes >> >> And I can take or leave it if I please. >> >> The game of life is hard to play, >> >> I’m going to loose it anyway, >> >> The loosin’ card I’ll someday lay; >> >> So this is all I have to say… >> >> That suicide is painless, >> >> It brings on many changes >> >> And I can take or leave it if I please. >> >> The only way to win is cheat >> >> And lay it down before I’m beat >> >> And to another give my seat >> >> For that’s the only painless feat. >> >> That suicide is painless, >> >> It brings on many changes >> >> And I can take or leave it if I please. >> >> And you can do the same thing if you please. >> >Nick, that’s a real surprise. >> >Not about the Church, since it was considered a major sin. >> >But I was JK about death penalty, and now you tell >> >that this is was legal in certain states? Could you give details? >> >Another point. I’ve never seen the movie M*A*S*H, but I suppose >> >that it’s a comedy on militaries, why the main them happens to >> >concern suicide? >> >– >> >All the best >> > Raffaele >> Hi, Raffaele! >> The death penality for attempted suicide was in effect in the United States, >> to the best of my knowledge, only in colonial times, in New England, where my >> Pilgrim ancestors of the United Church of Christ set up a theocracy after >> fleeing England to America for religious freedom. (They also hanged some >> witches in Salem, as my might remember). >> However, if my memory serves me right, it was part of the medieval laws of >> Great Britian, France, and, I think, Germany. I’d have to do some research to >> be sure. >> Shalom, >> Nick > Nick, > It seems to me that making the penalty for suicide to be death is one >of the stupidist things I can think of. I mean, really. You’re convicted >of trying to commit suicide, then for that crime, you’re killed. Duh. >You wanted to be dead, and now you are. Somewhere, I see government >involvement in this… (laugh) > If you succeed, then I guess they could put your body under "house >arrest". You know, one of those collars around your ankles so they’ll >know if you go anywhere. I guess the only problem I might have with that >would be if I were the guy who was keeping track of the movement of the >collars, and they started to disperse around the city. That is, without >an earthquake or other "natural" event, including grave robbing. It >would mean that the dead were up and walking, and I think that I >wouldn’t be too concerned about whatever laws I might break as I left >town! > John II
John II ~ You’re absolutely right about the stupidity of considering suicide a crime. Back then (whenever) it was a definite no win situation! I’m glad we’ve at least come far enough to see suicide as a social and psychological issue. Nick
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Hi there Damien! Well met in ASL (or we talked before?)! In article <6vkmsb$n5…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, djr…@indigo.ie wrote: > Hi everyone, > I hope you don’t mind me butting in but I’d like to add that until a few > years ago anyone who committed suicide in Ireland wasn’t allowed to be buried > in holy ground and couldn’t even get last rites.
How sad, this reminds a post of Nick Temple yesterday on the same theme. > There’s still a huge stigma attached and if a suicide is reported on the news > they say that the person died of a broken heart.
And yes, trying to disguise a suicide may be done by many, so stats are also alterated and the official number of suicides is underestimated. OTOH, this helps to avoid to provide examples, encouragining imitation. This is maybe only a theory. > — > Peace, > Damien (http://members.tripod.com/~djryan/).
And since you’ve a site, why don’t submit your address to Ric to add it to the ASL WebSite? (or you did already?). You’ll r(i)each it from my ASL page <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/asl.html>. Take care. Raffaele ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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Hi again, Damien! Same here in Quebec, with catholicism anyway, where it was not only so (might still be actually, not sure) in the case of suicide "victims" (? can one be said to be the victim of their own suicide..?) nut also for still born babies…. Imagien the family, then in both cases, in that time of pain, made to feel that way….Sometimes one can wonder where the spirit was in what letter that had it be so…. I know personally of two fervent catholic parents that went like thieves at night to burry their still born child in the "blessed" part of the cimetary…Such a little shy and observant couple, really, that hearing their story made me really imagine the pain that must have been for them…They felt so ashamed for having disobeyed, and yet just could not leave their baby "rejected" by their own Church… It made me wonder if in the "love one another" rules and in their paragraphs and articles and subdivisons of it all, compassion, "Love for one another" had not exactly been totally left out in the end…. Chloe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - (djr…@indigo.ie) writes: > Hi everyone, > I hope you don’t mind me butting in but I’d like to add that until a few > years ago anyone who committed suicide in Ireland wasn’t allowed to be buried > in holy ground and couldn’t even get last rites. > There’s still a huge stigma attached and if a suicide is reported on the news > they say that the person died of a broken heart. > — > Peace, > Damien (http://members.tripod.com/~djryan/). > ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
–
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In article <907820633.108…@news.bluegrass.net>, ntem…@bluegrass.net (Nicholas Temple) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, JH…@IX.Netcom.Com says… > >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they > >do to you if you succeed? > > John II > OK, John II, you ask a hard one. If I remember my history correctly, if you > succeeded in some time and places, the Church would not allow you to be > buried in consecrated ground. If you tried, but failed, it was a capital > offense and the state would do to you what you failed to do to yourself. > Do you know the words to the Theme Song for M*A*S*H? If not, here they are, > without guitar cords: > SUICIDE IS PAINLESS (MASH THEME SONG) > (Mike Altman and Johnny Mandel) > Through early morning fog I see > Visions of the things to be, > The pains that are withheld for me, > I realize and I can see… > That suicide is painless, > It brings on many changes > And I can take or leave it if I please. > The game of life is hard to play, > I’m going to loose it anyway, > The loosin’ card I’ll someday lay; > So this is all I have to say… > That suicide is painless, > It brings on many changes > And I can take or leave it if I please. > The only way to win is cheat > And lay it down before I’m beat > And to another give my seat > For that’s the only painless feat. > That suicide is painless, > It brings on many changes > And I can take or leave it if I please. > And you can do the same thing if you please.
Nick, that’s a real surprise. Not about the Church, since it was considered a major sin. But I was JK about death penalty, and now you tell that this is was legal in certain states? Could you give details? Another point. I’ve never seen the movie M*A*S*H, but I suppose that it’s a comedy on militaries, why the main them happens to concern suicide? — All the best Raffaele <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/> ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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In article <6vj5of$ne…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, raffa…@my-dejanews.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <907820633.108…@news.bluegrass.net>, > ntem…@bluegrass.net (Nicholas Temple) wrote: >> In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, JH…@IX.Netcom.Com says… >> >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they >> >do to you if you succeed? >> > John II >> OK, John II, you ask a hard one. If I remember my history correctly, if you >> succeeded in some time and places, the Church would not allow you to be >> buried in consecrated ground. If you tried, but failed, it was a capital >> offense and the state would do to you what you failed to do to yourself. >> Do you know the words to the Theme Song for M*A*S*H? If not, here they are, >> without guitar cords: >> SUICIDE IS PAINLESS (MASH THEME SONG) >> (Mike Altman and Johnny Mandel) >> Through early morning fog I see >> Visions of the things to be, >> The pains that are withheld for me, >> I realize and I can see… >> That suicide is painless, >> It brings on many changes >> And I can take or leave it if I please. >> The game of life is hard to play, >> I’m going to loose it anyway, >> The loosin’ card I’ll someday lay; >> So this is all I have to say… >> That suicide is painless, >> It brings on many changes >> And I can take or leave it if I please. >> The only way to win is cheat >> And lay it down before I’m beat >> And to another give my seat >> For that’s the only painless feat. >> That suicide is painless, >> It brings on many changes >> And I can take or leave it if I please. >> And you can do the same thing if you please. >Nick, that’s a real surprise. >Not about the Church, since it was considered a major sin. >But I was JK about death penalty, and now you tell >that this is was legal in certain states? Could you give details? >Another point. I’ve never seen the movie M*A*S*H, but I suppose >that it’s a comedy on militaries, why the main them happens to >concern suicide? >– >All the best > Raffaele
Hi, Raffaele! The death penality for attempted suicide was in effect in the United States, to the best of my knowledge, only in colonial times, in New England, where my Pilgrim ancestors of the United Church of Christ set up a theocracy after fleeing England to America for religious freedom. (They also hanged some witches in Salem, as my might remember). However, if my memory serves me right, it was part of the medieval laws of Great Britian, France, and, I think, Germany. I’d have to do some research to be sure. Shalom, Nick
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In the good old days of religious superstition and the inquisition etc, suicide was a good thing as it was a scandal for some rich and influential family and priests liked to put such families under their thumb if they found out about it. It’s all down to power, really. BTW the Mormons want my birth records (+ everyone else’s) because they want me to go to heaven. I’d sooner become an Adversary for the new millenium. John H Schneider II wrote in message <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they >do to you if you succeed? > John II
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Hi everyone, I hope you don’t mind me butting in but I’d like to add that until a few years ago anyone who committed suicide in Ireland wasn’t allowed to be buried in holy ground and couldn’t even get last rites. There’s still a huge stigma attached and if a suicide is reported on the news they say that the person died of a broken heart. — Peace, Damien (http://members.tripod.com/~djryan/). ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, JH…@IX.Netcom.Com says… >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they >do to you if you succeed? > John II
OK, John II, you ask a hard one. If I remember my history correctly, if you succeeded in some time and places, the Church would not allow you to be buried in consecrated ground. If you tried, but failed, it was a capital offense and the state would do to you what you failed to do to yourself. Do you know the words to the Theme Song for M*A*S*H? If not, here they are, without guitar cords: SUICIDE IS PAINLESS (MASH THEME SONG) (Mike Altman and Johnny Mandel) Through early morning fog I see Visions of the things to be, The pains that are withheld for me, I realize and I can see… That suicide is painless, It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please. The game of life is hard to play, I’m going to loose it anyway, The loosin’ card I’ll someday lay; So this is all I have to say… That suicide is painless, It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please. The only way to win is cheat And lay it down before I’m beat And to another give my seat For that’s the only painless feat. That suicide is painless, It brings on many changes And I can take or leave it if I please. And you can do the same thing if you please.
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In article <I7US1.144$525.511…@ptah.visi.com>, dsg…@visi.com (Dan Goodman) wrote: > In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, > John H Schneider II <JH…@IX.Netcom.Com> wrote: > >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they > >do to you if you succeed? > A magician will resurrect you — and you’ll be sentenced to life.
*LOL* What if he’s resurrected again? > — > Dan Goodman > dsg…@visi.com > http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html > Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
– All the best Raffaele <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/> ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they do to you if you succeed? John II
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John II, John H Schneider II wrote: > Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they > do to you if you succeed?
I was having a little discussion about this very topic on another newsgroup recently. From what I heard, your will can be declared null and void. The police can launch a full-scale investigation into your former life. IOW, it may not be fun for your relatives, although they can’t do much to you personally, of course. > John II
Brad
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In article <361C1C37.4…@IX.Netcom.Com>, John H Schneider II <JH…@IX.Netcom.Com> wrote: >Another thought occurred to me: If suicide is illegal, what can they >do to you if you succeed?
A magician will resurrect you — and you’ll be sentenced to life. — Dan Goodman dsg…@visi.com http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
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Question:
<huge snip Even better than sex! Great story, you just gave me an idea. Sabotage the engine at your first lesson and get one extra free! Cool! You’ve also answered my question: do powered PG’rs land with or without 100% throttle? Definitaly without… Anyway, well readible story, was fun reading it whilst working behind a boring ‘puter. I think I will stay stuned on this group for a while and forget my ultra-light-airplane dreams. Powered ParaGliding sounds more fun! Keep us updated John!
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I just flew a Praplane at Arlington ‘96 this last July. Bought one that day.They are an absolute blast. Probably better than real good sex! -Rick Buchanan : Well, I finally did it. : Driving around out in the country a couple of years ago, we stumbled : across a place that offered training on the spot to go up in an : ultralight powered glider. —
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I just flew a Praplane at Arlington ‘96 this last July. Bought one that day.They are an absolute blast. Probably better than real good sex!
"Probably"? I don’t know about better than real good sex, but paraplanes are DEFINITELY better than Plain Old Ordinary Sex. Can’t wait to fly mine again. Perhaps I’d better not fly out of my local park again, though, until things cool off for a while Sure beats dealing with FAA, ATC and all those other nasty acronyms!! Danimal
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Well, I finally did it. Driving around out in the country a couple of years ago, we stumbled across a place that offered training on the spot to go up in an ultralight powered glider. At that time, we couldn’t afford the $100 or so that it would cost, but from time to time I mentioned to Natasha, especially after I graduated and got this "good" job, that I’d still like to go and do it. Additionally, about two months ago, I decided that I’d like to get a full pilot’s licence, complete with an instrument rating (allows flying at night and in cloudy weather). Of course, that is way beyond our budget at the present time, especially since Natasha is planning to take next year off after the baby is born to get her Master’s degree in Accounting (a temporary 1/3 drop in family income). Anyway, my birthday was August 10, and for my b-day present, Natasha gave me a "paraplane" lesson! A paraplane is a powered gondola that sits below one of those arch-shaped honeycomb-type parachutes that the high-performance skydivers use. The are inherently more stable than an ultralight, because of the "pendulum effect": The gondola/cockpit, which is suspended below the "parachute," always returns to the center of gravity if there is a disruption, such as a wind gust. It is a self-correcting "feedback-control loop" system, as we say in the world of electrical engineering & control systems theory. So, we went yesterday, Saturday. First, we watched a video from an attorney who explained that the release from liability we were about to sign (there were seven of us taking the lesson) would release the company from all liability, and if we or our estate even TRIED to sue, our estate would be liable for all attorney’s fees of the sued company, plus $50,000, etc, etc. Then we watched a training video. Then we read a training manual. Then we had a pre-flight briefing. Then we took a test, on which we had to score 100%. Part of the training included what to do in case of an emergency, and went through the various types of emergencies. So, then we went out, and learned how to inspect the paraplane for pre-flight, and then we went up, in a two-seater, with an instructor. This two-seater looks similar to a motorcycle two-seater, with the passenger sitting behind and higher up than the "main" pilot. The passenger can control the engine speed, which determines up, down, or level flight (airspeed is constant at all times), and the passenger can also control the left-right turns. But for both controls (altitude/speed, and turns), the pilot can override the passenger easily, and in fact, the the pilot/instructor can control them more easily than the passenger. It was fun, but a bit unsatisfying. So then, afterwards, the seven of us were asked if anyone wanted to take a solo flight (extra $40). For the solo flight, there is an instructor on the ground who is in contant radio contact with the student via a speaker in the helmet (the student can also talk to the instructor). I was the only one of the seven who wanted to go up immediately — my excuse was that I wanted to do it while the training was still "fresh." (The rest decided to come back later). So, up I went. We were instructed to fly a "racetrack" shape over the airport — two straight stretches, with a half-circle turn at each end. The takeoff and the spectators (my family and the other students) were a few feet off the runway, halfway down one of the straight stretches, and that’s about where we took off, too. I took off, gained altitude, made a half turn, and entered the first straight stretch. At the designated time, I began the second half turn, and began to descend, in order to do a mock-landing, that is, come within 10 feet of the ground, then pull up. Right about at the point of touch-down is where the spectators are sitting (about 30-40 feet away from the runway, of course). The first "touch and go" went fine. I climbed, circled, came around, and came down for my second "touch and go" attempt. On the way back up, I complained that the instructor was only letting me get about 10 feet from the ground, whereas in the tandem seat arrangement (flying WITH the instructor, for remember, now I am flying solo), HE had actually momentarily TOUCHED the ground before applying full throttle and climbing. He (the ground instructor, talking to me through the speaker in the helmet) said that the reason why was that the instructor was a bit more experienced than I. I was nearing the end of my ascent from the second "touch and go," about to bank into the first turn of the "racetrack" formation on my third lap, when the engine coughed three times, and then completely died. Yup, completely died. In mid-air. At about 200 feet. Died. (Listen to the silent whoosh of wind passing by at 26 MPH). It took about 2 seconds for me to fully realize that the engine really was dead. I then calmly said to my instuctor, "I’ve lost all power." He said, "turn right NOW and then look for the nearest open field, and land." Of course, I had not yet even done one REAL landing, but that really didn’t matter at the moment now, did it??? After the turn, everything was open field. I thought about trying to line up with the runway, but since it was my first crash landing, I decided not to push my luck by making things too complicated. So, I just glided straight ahead, losing (according to the training) one foot of altitide for every three feet of forward motion. On the way down, the instructor reminded me to "flare my chute" at 10 feet above the ground (press on the two foot controls — pressing one side normally causes a turn, but upon landing, pressing both at once "pulls up" the nose of the cockpit). As the ground got pretty close, I kept waiting for the instructor to tell me to flare my chute NOW, but finally, it (the ground) was too close, and so I just did it on my own, apparently with perfect timing. I landed in some freshly plowed ground, which caused the landing to be a bit rough, but it was all over in about 2-1/2 seconds (complete stop). I sat still for about 10 seconds, then started to laugh. Then I unbuckled the harness, and stepped out. While the instructor approached in his three-wheel motorcycle, I waved at my family, to indicate that I was all right. When the instuctor got there, after his initial remark or two, I immediatly asked, "so, do I get to do it over again???" (At $40 for 20 minutes, a ride is not cheap!) He said yes, but not today, since that was their only radio-equipped trainer. I walked back, and later received my solo certificate, along with a certificate allowing me to go up next time for free. [I guess I'll be lurking around in this newsgroup from now on]. — "Only a brave person is able honestly to accept, and fearlessly to face, what a sincere and logical mind discovers." -Rodan of Alexandria
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