Question:

I think the VAST majority of people in auditing are interested in auditing companies within GAAS and GAAP guidelines.  I personally think you overestimate the influence of the "cross seller" based on what I have seen in the industry. The vast majority of companies report their earnings fairly and the vast majority of audit firms across the US catch most, but not all, of the mistakes in the financial reporting process.  

I believe you believe that.  I’m sure you realize that I don’t. I am not alone.  Please see my next post, "New Fight Brewing Over Limits on Investor Suits " I fail to see it bringing a higher quality of people into the profession.

I will – eventually. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since when do lawyers issue audit opinions?  Lawyers are not supposed to be independent. I agree with your rebuttal, but this point about limiting auditors from going to work for a company that they audit for two years is a real sore spot for me.  First of all, I think it is unconstitutional to limit the opportunities for auditors.  Most people get jobs by networking.  It is just going to make it so we have a bunch of idiots doing auditing because the profession is going to become so unattractive that all of the quality people are going to get out of it.  I sure am. Unfortunately these events (Enron/AA) will increase audit fees.  It may also increase enough to attract solid auditors that wish to make auditing a career instead of a stepping stone to other things. Something that has caused idiots to stay in auditing because the smart ones have figured out how to get out of it.

Paul, you couldn’t have said it better. The same applies verbatim to internal audit, often abused as a stepping stone or planned to be a stepping stone by top management. Those stepping from one stone to the next generally take great care not to step on the feet of their future cronies. Your’s truly’s involvement in external audit has been severely impaired by his intent, actually carried out in mandates, to just do the job. One simple example: accounting standards and their application within the chosen and/or legally obligatory framework are not subject to negotiation between auditor and auditee. Auditees (at least here) are not seldom who ask things like, "How many standards can we simply disregard, e. g. segment reporting, and still get a qualified opinion instead of a disclaimer?" You will frequently find references in qualified IAS audit reports to a list of unfulfilled accounting standards in the notes. Chris, IMHO audit includes by definition a material component of police work. Whoever cannot or does not unreservedly and unequivocally say "yes" to this component should indeed change professions, if he can. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": assassination Panama Cocaine cracking SDI cryptographic NSA Serbian Iran

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are hoping that Sarbanes will do something to help the profession, you are out of luck.  He has another agenda and accountants do not get a seat at the table.  They might however attend as the main course. I know almost nothing about Sarbanes. The purity of his motive (or lack of) is not my point.  I’m interested in which way the wind is blowing.

With the Senate, motive and agendas are, and always have been, the whole show. Originally, the founders, set the Senate up to represent the states. The House of Representatives is the "people’s house."  When the Senate was switched from state appointment to popular election, they became the bought and paid for representatives of those who can afford to buy them.  If Sarbanes actually puts up something, a Senate Bill, you have to read it very carefully to see if it is a full employment act for lawyers.  Like Hollings, I believe they along with the large unions are his constituency.  If you do a google, I am pretty sure you will find all sorts of depressing things. If anything good is going to come out of Congress on this matter, it is going to have to start in the House of Representatives. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There will certainly be disruption and turmoil, but we already have disruption and turmoil. Big firm auditing has been largely captive to the "cross sellers" for a number of years. I would think that freedom to audit based on accounting and auditing principles would be very attractive to real auditors. I think the VAST majority of people in auditing are interested in auditing companies within GAAS and GAAP guidelines. I personally think you overestimate the influence of the "cross seller" based on what I have seen in the industry. The vast majority of companies report their earnings fairly and the vast majority of audit firms across the US catch most, but not all, of the mistakes in the financial reporting process. Are there exceptions and crooks in the industry? Sure. But name me any industry that doesn’t have crooks. I see this episode driving more good people out of accounting and I fail to see it bringing a higher quality of people into the profession.

Chris, you may have been fortunate to have worked in an environment which substantiated your above opinions. On the other hand, there is much publicly available evidence to suggest, in the case of Andersen, that a

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name. Great Ghu, but you truly are one singularly stupid fuck. Do you *not* know that there is not a single middle eastern language that uses our alphabet? Yes, that is the reason some Arab words are spelled without the u after q. But thanks for being my idiot once again. as usual the only defense conservatives have for the inadaqucies, corruption and treasonous actions of the bush administartion is a spelling flame

Not knowing the name of the subject of their own article is the best way for the author humiliate themselves. John

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name. Great Ghu, but you truly are one singularly stupid fuck. Do you *not* know that there is not a single middle eastern language that uses our alphabet? Yes, that is the reason some Arab words are spelled without the u after q. But thanks for being my idiot once again. as usual the only defense conservatives have for the inadaqucies, corruption and treasonous actions of the bush administartion is a spelling flame Not knowing the name of the subject of their own article is the best way for the author humiliate themselves.

Considering the number of spelling and grammatical errors you’ve made in just a couple of posts, I hardly think you’re one to talk. — "To exchange one orthodoxy for another is not necessarily an advance. The enemy is the gramophone mind, whether or not one agrees with the record that is being played at the moment."    – George Orwell

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Besides, I’d hate to disappoint my audience and it’s just not as much fun when the targets don’t understand you’re insulting them. Not so sure.  A private laugh has sustained me through many a thread. Did you see the study on competency that came out of Cornell last year? Most illuminating. The conclusion was those who were least competent were most likely to overestimate their abilities… This comes as no surprise. Which are your favored haunts?  I want to read more. I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. Incontinence works that way.

GOD, that is clever. Well, other than the fact that it is vapid, non germane, makes no sense in context and isn’t remotely funny, that is. Do you know what incontinence is, moron? It is *not* a rash. Or are you sharing some personal experience with us? Show us your competence again, half wit. Spell this in Arabic: You’re a fucking idiot. Cheers, Dusty

Response:

Also at the fact that Dusty Rhodes action figures can command up to $300 on eBay.

Damn, action figures of me are only going for 150 dollars. I knew I should post more often. blue "Revolution is not showing life to people, but making them live"  Guy Debord

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. I turn up all over when least expected. Of course, you can always find me at Google. Okay, I looked up your ass, so to speak, and am suitably impressed, especially at your other career in the WWF.  Also at the fact that Dusty Rhodes action figures can command up to $300 on eBay. Heh. Yeah, well, because of that, and my geographic location, I get some pretty interesting letters and/or calls intended for that other Dusty. So basicy, dusty lives in his mom’s basement.

Hey spelling boy, what’s "basicy"? RT

Response:

I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. I turn up all over when least expected. Of course, you can always find me at Google. Okay, I looked up your ass, so to speak, and am suitably impressed, especially at your other career in the WWF.  Also at the fact that Dusty Rhodes action figures can command up to $300 on eBay. Heh. Yeah, well, because of that, and my geographic location, I get some pretty interesting letters and/or calls intended for that other Dusty.

So basicy, dusty lives in his mom’s basement. John

Response:

A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name.

What’s "expertice"? RT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name. Great Ghu, but you truly are one singularly stupid fuck. Do you *not* know that there is not a single middle eastern language that uses our alphabet? Yes, that is the reason some Arab words are spelled without the u after q. But thanks for being my idiot once again.

Can’t help but notice you snipped this: That means, you fucking idiot, that it is impossible, and by that I mean not possible, to directly translate ANY spelling from, say, Sanskrit or Pashto to English.

With this in mind, how do you know "some Arab words are spelled without the u after q"? Oh, and please answer Dusty’s other question: Speaking of spelling, you stupid fuck, what, exactly, is, "…expertice…?"

RT

Response:

I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. I turn up all over when least expected. Of course, you can always find me at Google. Okay, I looked up your ass, so to speak, and am suitably impressed, especially at your other career in the WWF.  Also at the fact that Dusty Rhodes action figures can command up to $300 on eBay.

Heh. Yeah, well, because of that, and my geographic location, I get some pretty interesting letters and/or calls intended for that other Dusty. Cheers, Dusty

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Besides, I’d hate to disappoint my audience and it’s just not as much fun when the targets don’t understand you’re insulting them. Not so sure.  A private laugh has sustained me through many a thread. Did you see the study on competency that came out of Cornell last year? Most illuminating. The conclusion was those who were least competent were most likely to overestimate their abilities… This comes as no surprise. Which are your favored haunts?  I want to read more. I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. Incontinence works that way. GOD, that is clever.

Not only that, but it enforces your self immage. John

Response:

I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. I turn up all over when least expected. Of course, you can always find me at Google.

Okay, I looked up your ass, so to speak, and am suitably impressed, especially at your other career in the WWF.  Also at the fact that Dusty Rhodes action figures can command up to $300 on eBay. Mike Stupidity, alas, is seldom accompanied by humility. History shows but one alternative to tribalism: nationalism. Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. –Mark Twain "There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do" –White House spokesman Ari Fleischer

Response:

Thank you Mr Rhodes.  A bit overheated, but nonetheless needed.

Intentionally crafted, actually. More clogging through vitriol than tap dancing through verbal mine fields, granted, but all part of a deliberate style.  Besides, gradient scales being what they are, it’s probably as intellectually and emotionally elevated as my targets can grasp, though even this often seems to elude them. Besides, I’d hate to disappoint my audience and it’s just not as much fun when the targets don’t understand you’re insulting them. Did you see the study on competency that came out of Cornell last year? Most illuminating. The conclusion was those who were least competent were most likely to overestimate their abilities. "In a series of studies, Mr. Kruger and Dr. Dunning found that subjects who scored in the lowest quartile on tests of logic, English grammar and humor were also the most likely to "grossly overestimate" how well they had performed." Cheers, Dusty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Stupidity, alas, is seldom accompanied by humility. History shows but one alternative to tribalism: nationalism. Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. –Mark Twain "There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do" –White House spokesman Ari Fleischer

Response:

Besides, I’d hate to disappoint my audience and it’s just not as much fun when the targets don’t understand you’re insulting them.

Not so sure.  A private laugh has sustained me through many a thread. Did you see the study on competency that came out of Cornell last year? Most illuminating. The conclusion was those who were least competent were most likely to overestimate their abilities…

This comes as no surprise. Which are your favored haunts?  I want to read more. Mike Stupidity, alas, is seldom accompanied by humility. History shows but one alternative to tribalism: nationalism. Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. –Mark Twain "There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do" –White House spokesman Ari Fleischer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Besides, I’d hate to disappoint my audience and it’s just not as much fun when the targets don’t understand you’re insulting them. Not so sure.  A private laugh has sustained me through many a thread. Did you see the study on competency that came out of Cornell last year? Most illuminating. The conclusion was those who were least competent were most likely to overestimate their abilities… This comes as no surprise. Which are your favored haunts?  I want to read more.

I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. I turn up all over when least expected. Of course, you can always find me at Google. Cheers, Dusty

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Besides, I’d hate to disappoint my audience and it’s just not as much fun when the targets don’t understand you’re insulting them. Not so sure.  A private laugh has sustained me through many a thread. Did you see the study on competency that came out of Cornell last year? Most illuminating. The conclusion was those who were least competent were most likely to overestimate their abilities… This comes as no surprise. Which are your favored haunts?  I want to read more. I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet. I turn up all over when least expected. Of course, you can always find me at Google.

For those with interest in the study mentioned above: http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html — "A ‘Cape Cod Salsa’ just isn’t right."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Besides, I’d hate to disappoint my audience and it’s just not as much fun when the targets don’t understand you’re insulting them. Not so sure.  A private laugh has sustained me through many a thread. Did you see the study on competency that came out of Cornell last year? Most illuminating. The conclusion was those who were least competent were most likely to overestimate their abilities… This comes as no surprise. Which are your favored haunts?  I want to read more. I am like a rash on the butt of Usenet.

Incontinence works that way. John

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wrote in A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name. Great Ghu, but you truly are one singularly stupid fuck. Do you *not* know that there is not a single middle eastern language that uses our alphabet? Yes, that is the reason some Arab words are spelled without the u after q. But thanks for being my idiot once again. as usual the only defense conservatives have for the inadaqucies, corruption and treasonous actions of the bush administartion is a spelling flame Not knowing the name of the subject of their own article is the best way for the author humiliate themselves.

When it comes to humiliating yourself, rest assured, no one can hold a candle to you. You are the idiot’s idiot on idiots get in free day at the Idiot Olympics. Cheers, Dusty

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name. Great Ghu, but you truly are one singularly stupid fuck. Do you *not* know that there is not a single middle eastern language that uses our alphabet? Yes, that is the reason some Arab words are spelled without the u after q.

Maybe IN ENGLISH, you fucking bonehead! You see a ot of Us and Qs here?: http://www.al-jazirah.com/ U After Q? You stupid twit, Arabic not only uses a different alphabet, it reads from right to left. You may also notice THEIR spelling of their own news service in English is different than OUR spelling. Go figure. But thanks for being my idiot once again.

Didn’t you get the memo? Irony is dead. Besides, you don’t have anywhere near the processing power required to appreciate the astoundingly stupid irony of your response. Cheers, Dusty

Response:

A Coup Against the American Constitution

<snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda,

It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name. John

Response:

A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name.

Great Ghu, but you truly are one singularly stupid fuck. Do you *not* know that there is not a single middle eastern language that uses our alphabet? That means, you fucking idiot, that it is impossible, and by that I mean not possible, to directly translate ANY spelling from, say, Sanskrit or Pashto to English. Man, you’d think this moron at some point would tire of such public displays of utter stupidity. Apparently he’s just not smart enough to know he’s just not smart enough. Speaking of spelling, you stupid fuck, what, exactly, is, "…expertice…?" Perhaps we can find someone who speaks your native language to translate your pathetic bleatings into English. Anyone here speak fluent imbecile? Cheers, Dusty

Response:

Thank you Mr Rhodes.  A bit overheated, but nonetheless needed. Mike Stupidity, alas, is seldom accompanied by humility. History shows but one alternative to tribalism: nationalism. Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. –Mark Twain "There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do" –White House spokesman Ari Fleischer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Coup Against the American Constitution <snip [We are, effectively,] saying to Al Queda, It is interesting that expertice with respect to Al Qaeda is offered by some leftist elitist running dog that can not even spell their name. Great Ghu, but you truly are one singularly stupid fuck. Do you *not* know that there is not a single middle eastern language that uses our alphabet?

Yes, that is the reason some Arab words are spelled without the u after q. But thanks for being my idiot once again. John

Response:

It’s cool to see even as deeply-establishment an instiution as the Washington Post deciding that there should finally be limits to the government’s power to persecute those it dislikes.  End-Running the Bill of Rights   Friday, November 16, 2001; Page A46 AFTER THE attacks of Sept. 11, many predicted that the demands of domestic security would eventually clash with traditional American reverence for civil liberties. Few predicted that the clash would come so soon and so starkly, or that the government would come down so decisively on the anti-liberty side as would be permitted under President Bush’s new executive order on military justice. The order allows the president to order a trial in a military court for any non-citizen he designates, without a right of appeal to the courts or the protection of the Bill of Rights. We understand the temptation to jettison civilian justice and the shields against excessive government power that this country has nurtured for more than two centuries… We can also imagine cases in which fighters captured overseas might best be tried in military courts. But the potential damage is so great, to U.S. credibility abroad as well as U.S. liberty at home, that such courts should be viewed as an absolutely last resort, particularly in domestic cases. Instead, Mr. Bush has authorized military justice as an option for the government in a far wider array of cases than could ever be necessary. Any non-citizen whom the president deems to be a member of al Qaeda, or to be engaged in international terrorism of virtually any kind, or even to be harboring such people, can be detained indefinitely under his order and tried. The trials could take place using largely secret evidence. Depending solely on how the Defense Department further refines the rules, the military officers conducting the trials might insist on proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, or might use some far lesser standard. The accused can be convicted without a unanimous verdict but with a two-thirds majority. Those found guilty would have no appeal to any court; and if found guilty, they could be executed. Such a process is only a hair’s breadth from a policy of summary justice. The potential to imprison or execute many innocent people is large, the chances that such mistakes would become known much smaller. Mr. Bush is claiming for himself the authority to unilaterally exempt a class of people accused of particular crimes from the protections of the Constitution. In this as in other recent balancing acts between law enforcement and liberty — the roundup without accounting of more than 1,000 people, the authorization of government eavesdropping on conversations between imprisoned clients and their lawyers — it seems to us the president is not being well advised. When Americans accused of terrorism are tried in secret courts by hooded judges in Peru or other nations, the U.S. government rightly objects. To authorize comparable trials in this country will erase any legitimacy of such objections. Worse, it will erode throughout the world the image of America as a place where certain freedoms cannot be compromised — freedoms that ultimately provide the most basic justification for this country to stake its claim to lead the world and wage the war on terrorism. And worse in turn than the blow to the U.S. image abroad will be the potentially irreversible injury at home if Mr. Bush proceeds, as his order would allow, to undermine the rule of law.

Question:

hello all, I heve a question on the content of some earlier newsletters What is a CPA, a CPE and a Peer review? In which countries are those qualifications used? Thanks for helping me out understanding this newsgroup Claudius

Response:

hello all, I heve a question on the content of some earlier newsletters What is a CPA, a CPE and a Peer review? In which countries are those qualifications used? Thanks for helping me out understanding this newsgroup Claudius

Dear Claudius, I am an ACCA, member of the Chartered Association of Certified Accountants, in the UK. I hope my answers help with your question. My American colleagues use the designation of CPA, Certified Public Accountant, to show that they have been accepted at a standard of acceptable professional competence and experience in the American accounting field. CPE is a term used in many professions for Continuing Professional Education, which is often set as a target number of hours training each year to maintain the qualification, membership or professional status. Peer review in the UK is used as a description of the process whereby your work is checked independently by a professional at the same level as yourself. This can be in any field, but is usually used in audit work to use the contribution of the experience of others to reduce risk of missing things. Good Luck, Mike Tyler

Response:

Question:

For it to effectively be Global, it would need to be taken up by the many other bodies who use the CPA designation. America isn’t the world, and with respect its accountants aren’t regarded necessarily as the world leaders in Accounting are they? Peter French MAcc CMA Australia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of the clearest information yet available regarding the so called XYZ / Cognitor designation the AICPA has been pushing.  For once it appears possible to get some IMHO, that particular designation will only service to confuse the issue and devalue CPA certificates. It’s a bad idea.

Response:

At this point I don’t have an opinion I would be willing to defend.  The only thing I’m certain of is that there are an unusually large number of strong opinions on both sides of the issue.

I think that’s one of the things that has truly confused the matter. I also note that each side seems more than willing to impute bad motives to the other side. My own position is, frankly, based primarily on my belief that the AICPA won’t be able to pull off the marketing necessary for the credential, even if I were to decide it was a good idea.  On the basic idea of such a credential, I’m probably closer to your view–I am not strongly committed either way.

Response:

For it to effectively be Global, it would need to be taken up by the many other bodies who use the CPA designation. America isn’t the world, and with respect its accountants aren’t regarded necessarily as the world leaders in Accounting are they? Peter French MAcc CMA Australia

Peter, Based on my experience in dealing with these so called "world  leaders" in the course of legislative matters, I think I have a pretty good idea as to what they would like to think about themselves.  As to how the rest of the world views them – I don’t have a clue.  You are in a far better position than I to comment on that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At this point I don’t have an opinion I would be willing to defend.  The only thing I’m certain of is that there are an unusually large number of strong opinions on both sides of the issue. I think that’s one of the things that has truly confused the matter. I also note that each side seems more than willing to impute bad motives to the other side. My own position is, frankly, based primarily on my belief that the AICPA won’t be able to pull off the marketing necessary for the credential, even if I were to decide it was a good idea.  On the basic idea of such a credential, I’m probably closer to your view–I am not strongly committed either way.

Ed, This topic seems to have generated more heat among accountants than anything I’ve seen in years, and I genuinely do not get it.  For me it is sort of like looking at one of those "far out" cartoons and not having a clue as to what the cartoonist is trying to convey. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

Based on my experience in dealing with these so called "world  leaders" in the course of legislative matters, I think I have a pretty good idea as to what they would like to think about themselves.  As to how the rest of the world views them – I don’t have a clue.  You are in a far better position than I to comment on that.

Actually, this is an international effort, though my understanding is that the makeup of who is "in" and "out" has changed through the process.  I don’t recall if Australia was part of the process, but I do believe that New Zealand either was involved (and dropped out) or is involved now. I know the UK was involved and then rejected the project. That said, it likely cannot succeed without the US being involved, though US approval by itself will not create a global credential. Perhaps even more important is this–what will the Big 5 do about it? Their support, or lack thereof, is likely going to be the most important aspect. That also brings up another issue–this project has suffered from a split personality from early on.  One push for it is a globalization issue–to get a unified accounting credential.  I believe that justification was the reason why the UK and Ireland were part of the process initially and was actually the issue that got the discussions running.  The second issue, which seems to have now overtaken the first justification, is to expand the "CPA/CA/whatever you call it <grin" brand outside of accounting.  As this became more important, much of the initial international support seems to have dried up. Most of the US discussion now hinges on this second issue.

Response:

Actually, in the sense Britain was a century or so ago, America is. AFAIK, when you talk about people putting up their own money, America is the center of accounting thought.  When they have a chance, the people who actually pay the bills, prefer American GAAP.  Now if you can show otherwise, with out referring to the preferences of national political bodies, I am certainly willing to listen. For it to effectively be Global, it would need to be taken up by the many other bodies who use the CPA designation. America isn’t the world, and with respect its accountants aren’t regarded necessarily as the world leaders in Accounting are they?

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *  Retired, but always willing to consider a good job offer.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

That also brings up another issue–this project has suffered from a split personality from early on.  One push for it is a globalization issue–to get a unified accounting credential.  I believe that justification was the reason why the UK and Ireland were part of the process initially and was actually the issue that got the discussions running.  The second issue, which seems to have now overtaken the first justification, is to expand the "CPA/CA/whatever you call it <grin" brand outside of accounting.  As this became more important, much of the initial international support seems to have dried up. Most of the US discussion now hinges on this second issue.

This comment is very helpful. I observed the same pattern in our local legislative effort.  The WSCPA opened with a lot of hype about "uniformity" and then moved into a massive expansion of both accounting and who could do it.  Our most contentious issue was non-CPA ownership of CPA firms. There is obviously a huge difference between an effort to formulate a uniform definition of "Certified / Chartered Accountant" and an effort to create a "Global Business Credential".  I can see some merit it each, and do believe that a sane discussion on each separately would be beneficial.  This is not to say that I agree with either, only that I believe a rational discussion would be beneficial. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

<HEAVY SNIP  The second issue, which seems to have now overtaken the first justification, is to expand the "CPA/CA/whatever you call it <grin" brand outside of accounting.  As this became more important, much of the initial international support seems to have dried up. Most of the US discussion now hinges on this second issue.

This is true. I headed up a national taskforce here in the mid 1980’s looking at allowing non CPA/CAs into partnership due the direction that the professional was heading. Only now id that issue being realistically addressed. In the meantime the smaller forms stuck like glue to their "CPA/CA" designations whereas the big 8/7/6/5/4/? dropped the particular designations to such titles at "Accountants & Advisors". To me the whole thing is a bit like the various attempts to issue a degree higher than the PhD – someone has suggested ‘Chancellor’ which seems about as ridiculous as this XYZ. In the end the client couldn’t really give a damn – you are either good for him and safe, or a timebomb and a waste of money. Peter French

Response:

troll.  I am entirely serious.

I know you are

Response:

Some of the clearest information yet available regarding the so called XYZ / Cognitor designation the AICPA has been pushing.  For once it appears possible to get some

IMHO, that particular designation will only service to confuse the issue and devalue CPA certificates. It’s a bad idea.

Response:

Some of the clearest information yet available regarding the so called XYZ / Cognitor designation the AICPA has been pushing.  For once it appears possible to get some IMHO, that particular designation will only service to confuse the issue and devalue CPA certificates. It’s a bad idea.

At this point I don’t have an opinion I would be willing to defend.  The only thing I’m certain of is that there are an unusually large number of strong opinions on both sides of the issue. I would be interested to know why you believe what you do.  This is not a troll.  I am entirely serious. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

Some of the clearest information yet available regarding the so called XYZ / Cognitor designation the AICPA has been pushing.  For once it appears possible to get some reasonably solid information without first having to peel off 10 layers of hysterical hype and spin. http://www.accountingweb.com/members/aicpa/content/info/index.htm — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

Question:

All I have is the plot of that data.  I do have some human data in raw form, but one of the conditions of it being released to me was that I attested that I was not working on control algorithms.  MiniMed has a proprietary interest in control

Hey, look at it this way: *you’re* not working on control algorithms.  ;)  Just kidding, I understand you position, and would not accept information that was not in the public domain or donated by willing participants.  That wouldn’t be very nice, now would it? I don’t know if Bill is still following the group, my presence has been pretty sporadic the last 6 months.  If you do a dejanews search on his and Dave Stampe’s names, you will find a long discussion of the problems involved in control algorithms.

I’ll do that.  Thanks for the tip. The MiniMed 3 day continuous monitor is becoming much more common in endocrinologists offices.  Another route to go is to hook up with an endocrinologist and have his patients sign a release on their monitor data.  If your wife’s doc has one, that would be a great place to start.

Again, thanks for the tip, I think I’ll ask and see. — |   Jeff Goslin – MCSD   | "Oh Bentson, you are so mercifully free from the  | |   how come everyone elses religion is a cult but your cult is a religion   | |      XGenetic, the ActiveX Artificial Intelligence Genetic Algorithm       | |           http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/demo/xgen-sw.zip/           |

Response:

Yes, I understand this, which is why I am looking for the most detailed information that I can find.  Perhaps even the two hour tests could be helpful. If you could point me in the direction of that data(the actual numbers), it would be helpful.

All I have is the plot of that data.  I do have some human data in raw form, but one of the conditions of it being released to me was that I attested that I was not working on control algorithms.  MiniMed has a proprietary interest in control and dosage algorithms and, reasonably enough, don’t want to give away data they paid for that could hurt their competitive position.  I’m not comfortable with redistributing the raw data without authorization from Bill Van Antwerp at MiniMed. I don’t know if Bill is still following the group, my presence has been pretty sporadic the last 6 months.  If you do a dejanews search on his and Dave Stampe’s names, you will find a long discussion of the problems involved in control algorithms. The MiniMed 3 day continuous monitor is becoming much more common in endocrinologists offices.  Another route to go is to hook up with an endocrinologist and have his patients sign a release on their monitor data.  If your wife’s doc has one, that would be a great place to start. — Charly Coughran

Response:

Dave is correct.  I have some continuous MiniMed data posted on http://www.ccs.ucsd.edu/~csc/MimiMed.html.  Thanks to Bill Van Antwerp for making the data available.  It is actually dog data, but human data is similar.  Note the red dots on the graph are paw (finger) sticks every two hours and they woefully under represents the variability. With two hour samples, you can’t tell whether bg is going up or down.

I bet the dog was probably pretty ornery after the 5th day of being awakened every 2 hours for a blood check.  ;)  (i know my dog would be!) Yes, I understand this, which is why I am looking for the most detailed information that I can find.  Perhaps even the two hour tests could be helpful. If you could point me in the direction of that data(the actual numbers), it would be helpful. Thanks! — |   Jeff Goslin – MCSD   | "Oh Bentson, you are so mercifully free from the  | |   how come everyone elses religion is a cult but your cult is a religion   | |      XGenetic, the ActiveX Artificial Intelligence Genetic Algorithm       | |           http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/demo/xgen-sw.zip/           |

Response:

Hi Jeff:

Howdy! I believe this has been done before, but may not be available publicly.

Done before or not, I haven’t heard about success, and I haven’t seen the results in any kind of viable form.  Of course, that’s another reason why I’m asking, if it’s been done, why reinvent the wheel, I’ll just buy that device. However, that being said, if it has been done, why don’t we have it yet?  If it HASN’T been perfected yet, I’m willing to take my admittedly limited-knowledge stab at it. Minimed or one of the other implantable pump companies have done work on algorithms for insulin delivery and I believe they deemed it difficult at best (you may want to check Deja/Google for past posts).  The lag in delivery time coupled with food absorbtion variability makes such an undertaking problematic for semi-real time delivery.

The insulin my wife uses has a potency time of 15 minutes(I believe this is referred to as "ultra-fast acting" insulin).  If one were to be able to record blood sugars every minute(for example), one could easily see if the blood sugar were rising or falling at any given time, and adjust delivered insulin, taking into consideration the lag time of potency.  That’s where the AI would come in. It would LEARN that it takes 15 minutes to see an effect from the insulin. I will look into those Minimed posts you are talking about(if I can find them, this is a pretty active newsgroup!  A search on Deja would probably return thousands of articles). cases.  Mathematical precision in physiology / dietary studies doesn’t exist unless you eat chow pellets and are isogenic with your littermates.

*grin* tell me about it.  If only we were all tall dark and handsome, right? The AI that I am planning to implement would take into consideration the metabolism, lifestyle and so on of the person it is being trained to predict insulin dosages for.  It would automatically adjust itself to fix for individual differences. There is an open source project to make a combination pump /meter download / analysis program at Sourceforge.  A recognition algorithm for various cases would be very useful for recognizing "sick days" etc., and it would make sense to integrate it into one’s meter data program.

Actually, that’s something I’m not terribly familiar with: the impact of life situations on blood sugar readings.  The effect of menstruation, failing health, stress, emotionality, fatigue and so on, on the blood sugars.  Any pointers on an intro to that type of information would be helpful in my search. I also believe the data from 10 reads a day is insufficient.  Check out the data from the continuous minimed meters to see how much variability exists between test times.

Yes, definitely, this I know.  One would need a blood sugar every minute or more in order to discern whether it was rising or falling in order to evaluate the effect of delivery of insulin on the blood sugars.  But, I figure with 10 readings a day I can extrapolate the data to the necessary degree of precision(ie fudge it a little at first).  Of course, if this were ever to get to the point where it might actually be used on a person I would require the use of minute by minute REAL readings from a person.  For right now, I can get a *fairly* good picture by drawing a best fit line through 10 points of data and seeing where the data takes me.  At least that’s my idea. Of course, if anyone has a minute by minute accounting of their blood sugar for a month, I’d happily accept the data!  ;) — |   Jeff Goslin – MCSD   | "Oh Bentson, you are so mercifully free from the  | |   how come everyone elses religion is a cult but your cult is a religion   | |      XGenetic, the ActiveX Artificial Intelligence Genetic Algorithm       | |           http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/demo/xgen-sw.zip/           |

Response:

I also believe the data from 10 reads a day is insufficient.  Check out the data from the continuous minimed meters to see how much variability exists between test times.

Dave is correct.  I have some continuous MiniMed data posted on http://www.ccs.ucsd.edu/~csc/MimiMed.html.  Thanks to Bill Van Antwerp for making the data available.  It is actually dog data, but human data is similar.  Note the red dots on the graph are paw (finger) sticks every two hours and they woefully under represents the variability. With two hour samples, you can’t tell whether bg is going up or down. — Charly Coughran

Response:

<snip That was why I stipulated that I needed lots of blood sugars from an individual person, not just lots of random blood sugars and insulins. Basically, I would take the blood sugar readings from a single person, feed them in, and try to get the program to learn how to give that person insulin.  Then I take another person’s blood sugars in a new run of the program, feed them in, and see if it works for that person as well.  All runs would be independant of each other. My wife is currently checking her blood sugars 10 times a day at least, while they get her regulated on the use of the pump, so I will be using those blood sugars as test data.  However, in order to ensure that it works for more people than just my wife, I’d like a variety of other person’s blood sugars, so I can see if their blood sugars can be regulated by the neural network/genetic algorithm combination of artificial intelligence as well.

Hi Jeff: I believe this has been done before, but may not be available publicly. Minimed or one of the other implantable pump companies have done work on algorithms for insulin delivery and I believe they deemed it difficult at best (you may want to check Deja/Google for past posts).  The lag in delivery time coupled with food absorbtion variability makes such an undertaking problematic for semi-real time delivery. I am sure you can get good recognition of various insulin "profiles" or "types" but the predictive power of your setup may be poor in specific cases.  Mathematical precision in physiology / dietary studies doesn’t exist unless you eat chow pellets and are isogenic with your littermates. There is an open source project to make a combination pump /meter download / analysis program at Sourceforge.  A recognition algorithm for various cases would be very useful for recognizing "sick days" etc., and it would make sense to integrate it into one’s meter data program. I also believe the data from 10 reads a day is insufficient.  Check out the data from the continuous minimed meters to see how much variability exists between test times. Best of luck, Dave S.

Response:

My son was recently diagnosed last November and I have been electronicallly tracking his blood sugar levels for the past two months, and carb intakes and insulin doses for the last month For your profile he is 23 months old and weighs 32 lbs. The file is an ascii format with the following data elements: YYMMDD – date of test HHMM  – time of test GGG – Blood glucos II.I – units of Insulin 1, which is Humalog JJ.J – units of Insulin 2, which is NPH A – Code for when test was taken, 0 – unknown, 1 – before meal, 2 after meal B – Amount of 15 gram carb units CD S — unused Please send me a little more info on how you will be using this data and if this is the type of info you are wanting?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunately, the data from one diabetic would not truly hold true for another. Body weight, how much the disease has progressed, metabolism, etc… all impact on the insulin needed. You would need to gather data from your wife over a period of time and use that. Thank you for your prompt reply. Yes, I realize that every person’s blood sugars go up and down depending on their own individual circumstances, but the idea of the program would be to develop a program that could, when trained for a given random individual, learn how much insulin that particular person needs during the day and so on. That was why I stipulated that I needed lots of blood sugars from an individual person, not just lots of random blood sugars and insulins.  Basically, I would take the blood sugar readings from a single person, feed them in, and try to get the program to learn how to give that person insulin.  Then I take another person’s blood sugars in a new run of the program, feed them in, and see if it works for that person as well.  All runs would be independant of each other. My wife is currently checking her blood sugars 10 times a day at least, while they get her regulated on the use of the pump, so I will be using those blood sugars as test data.  However, in order to ensure that it works for more people than just my wife, I’d like a variety of other person’s blood sugars, so I can see if their blood sugars can be regulated by the neural network/genetic algorithm combination of artificial intelligence as well. — — |   Jeff Goslin – MCSD   | "Oh Bentson, you are so mercifully free from the  | Bandits  | — |   how come everyone elses religion is a cult but your cult is a religion | — |      XGenetic, the ActiveX Artificial Intelligence Genetic Algorithm | |           http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/demo/xgen-sw.zip/ |

—

Response:

There are units with the sensor and the internal pump already in use. Check out MiniMed R & D in Germany. I was told they are available in Europe but are still in trial. Lurline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings all, first post to the newsgroup.  Looks like a lively one(2000 messages when I subscribed!)(lots of spam I noticed!). First of all, a summary(you decide if you want to read the rest): I need real data on blood sugar readings, along with the amount of insulin taken at the time of that blood sugar reading, over periods of time(the longer period of time the better).  Something like "1PM  blood sugar 135  insulin 14 units, 2PM blood sugar 114, insulin 3 units".  That’s all the info I need, but all the blood sugars should come from the same person.  As much data as I can find. [note: I don't have diabetes, I'm just married to a person who does, so I may use the wrong words, forgive me!] At any rate, here’s my story: My wife just recently got the insulin pump, a 29 year old diabetic of almost 20 years, due to uncontrolled diabetic blood sugar swings.  Her vision is shot(2 vitrectomies, multiple laser treatments, legally blind) and she’s spilling proteins from her kidneys.  She’s not in the best of shape, suffice it to say. When we were in the doctors office, I was requested to be there for her training session, so that someone else could know how to use the thing should I ever be needed to do so.  Anyways, they bring it out, and they’re describing how it works and stuff, how it delivers a steady stream of "basal" insulin, and you give "bolus" insulin when you eat.  All that good stuff.  Anyways, long story short, I got to thinking that if the pump were combined with a blood meter, it could be almost like a pancreas machine.  I mentioned it to the doctor, and she said that that is the direction it is most likely going to take in the future, but at this point it’s not there.  They still have yet to combine the two, as the technology is lagging. So, my background is in computers.  Specifically genetic algorithms, neural networks and artificial intelligence.  So, I figure that once they have the technology all in one box(ie a blood sugar reading lead coming from the insulin pump), the next logical step is to take the person out of the equation, so they never have to bolus it or anything.  So, I’m going to try to create an artificial intelligence software that can do that(figure out how much insulin to give). If I were to get data with times, blood sugars and insulin taken, I could use that as input to an artificial intelligence piece of software to tell the user or the pump itself how much insulin to give.  The training of a neural network requires a lot of sample data, the more data, the better training the neural net would recieve. If ANYONE has any data of that sort, or knows where I can find some for free, or would be willing to donate their blood sugars to my cause, especially if you’re checking it like 10 times a day, I’d really appreciate it!  The result of any such donation would be, if you want it, the end result, the final program that will tell you how much insulin to take.  If that would interest you. Thanks in advance. Sorry for the length of the post. — |   Jeff Goslin – MCSD   | "Oh Bentson, you are so mercifully free from the  | |   how come everyone elses religion is a cult but your cult is a religion   | |      XGenetic, the ActiveX Artificial Intelligence Genetic Algorithm       | |           http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/demo/xgen-sw.zip/           |

Response:

If I were to get data with times, blood sugars and insulin taken, I could use that as input to an artificial intelligence piece of software to tell the user or the pump itself how much insulin to give.  The training of a neural network requires a lot of sample data, the more data, the better training the neural net would recieve.

Jeff… Unfortunately, the data from one diabetic would not truly hold true for another. Body weight, how much the disease has progressed, metabolism, etc…  all impact on the insulin needed. You would need to gather data from your wife over a period of time and use that. Jennifer

Response:

Unfortunately, the data from one diabetic would not truly hold true for another. Body weight, how much the disease has progressed, metabolism, etc…  all impact on the insulin needed. You would need to gather data from your wife over a period of time and use that.

Thank you for your prompt reply. Yes, I realize that every person’s blood sugars go up and down depending on their own individual circumstances, but the idea of the program would be to develop a program that could, when trained for a given random individual, learn how much insulin that particular person needs during the day and so on. That was why I stipulated that I needed lots of blood sugars from an individual person, not just lots of random blood sugars and insulins.  Basically, I would take the blood sugar readings from a single person, feed them in, and try to get the program to learn how to give that person insulin.  Then I take another person’s blood sugars in a new run of the program, feed them in, and see if it works for that person as well.  All runs would be independant of each other. My wife is currently checking her blood sugars 10 times a day at least, while they get her regulated on the use of the pump, so I will be using those blood sugars as test data.  However, in order to ensure that it works for more people than just my wife, I’d like a variety of other person’s blood sugars, so I can see if their blood sugars can be regulated by the neural network/genetic algorithm combination of artificial intelligence as well. — |   Jeff Goslin – MCSD   | "Oh Bentson, you are so mercifully free from the  | |   how come everyone elses religion is a cult but your cult is a religion   | |      XGenetic, the ActiveX Artificial Intelligence Genetic Algorithm       | |           http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/demo/xgen-sw.zip/           |

Response:

Greetings all, first post to the newsgroup.  Looks like a lively one(2000 messages when I subscribed!)(lots of spam I noticed!). First of all, a summary(you decide if you want to read the rest): I need real data on blood sugar readings, along with the amount of insulin taken at the time of that blood sugar reading, over periods of time(the longer period of time the better).  Something like "1PM  blood sugar 135  insulin 14 units, 2PM blood sugar 114, insulin 3 units".  That’s all the info I need, but all the blood sugars should come from the same person.  As much data as I can find. [note: I don't have diabetes, I'm just married to a person who does, so I may use the wrong words, forgive me!] At any rate, here’s my story: My wife just recently got the insulin pump, a 29 year old diabetic of almost 20 years, due to uncontrolled diabetic blood sugar swings.  Her vision is shot(2 vitrectomies, multiple laser treatments, legally blind) and she’s spilling proteins from her kidneys.  She’s not in the best of shape, suffice it to say. When we were in the doctors office, I was requested to be there for her training session, so that someone else could know how to use the thing should I ever be needed to do so.  Anyways, they bring it out, and they’re describing how it works and stuff, how it delivers a steady stream of "basal" insulin, and you give "bolus" insulin when you eat.  All that good stuff.  Anyways, long story short, I got to thinking that if the pump were combined with a blood meter, it could be almost like a pancreas machine.  I mentioned it to the doctor, and she said that that is the direction it is most likely going to take in the future, but at this point it’s not there.  They still have yet to combine the two, as the technology is lagging. So, my background is in computers.  Specifically genetic algorithms, neural networks and artificial intelligence.  So, I figure that once they have the technology all in one box(ie a blood sugar reading lead coming from the insulin pump), the next logical step is to take the person out of the equation, so they never have to bolus it or anything.  So, I’m going to try to create an artificial intelligence software that can do that(figure out how much insulin to give). If I were to get data with times, blood sugars and insulin taken, I could use that as input to an artificial intelligence piece of software to tell the user or the pump itself how much insulin to give.  The training of a neural network requires a lot of sample data, the more data, the better training the neural net would recieve. If ANYONE has any data of that sort, or knows where I can find some for free, or would be willing to donate their blood sugars to my cause, especially if you’re checking it like 10 times a day, I’d really appreciate it!  The result of any such donation would be, if you want it, the end result, the final program that will tell you how much insulin to take.  If that would interest you. Thanks in advance. Sorry for the length of the post. — |   Jeff Goslin – MCSD   | "Oh Bentson, you are so mercifully free from the  | |   how come everyone elses religion is a cult but your cult is a religion   | |      XGenetic, the ActiveX Artificial Intelligence Genetic Algorithm       | |           http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/demo/xgen-sw.zip/           |

Response:

If I were to get data with times, blood sugars and insulin taken, I could use that as input to an artificial intelligence piece of software to tell the user or the pump itself how much insulin to give.  The training of a neural network requires a lot of sample data, the more data, the better training the neural net would recieve.

Jeff There is information about a diabetes simulation program for Windows, Aida v. 4, at <http://www.2aida.org/ together with a lot of theory (involving physiological ‘compartments’ and differential equations), together with data for about fifty ‘case’ studies.  You can plug in different insulins and dietary changes, and see a graph showing the results before and after.  There is a strong warning that individuals vary too much for it to be used for planning treatment changes. It is being used as an educational aid.  I would like to see a version to cover type 2 too.  One of the research uses of the program is to generate reasonable looking blood glucose measurements for input to other computer programs.    Philip

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the response. I had actually found your site before (Google) and looked thru it. It seems to be a better solution than MAS90, for sure from an ecommerce point of view, and maybe even from an accountant’s point of view. I even suggested your product in an earlier stage, but they seem to be stuck with the mas 90 solution. So now we are looking for an ecommerce solution that has been created with pre-built MAS90 integration in mind, hence the consideration of Broadband (perfect product but it doesn’t do MAS90 and it is a little above our budget, $300k) Of course if we can’t find one we will hand code our ecommerce in ASP and use Visual Integrator to write to the MAS90 database. BTW, i looked at webyourbusiness.com and found that our current ecommerce system (which is also written in perl) is more complex than their product can provide, judging by their demo stores. But thanks for the tip. Regards, Igor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the insight… Short of suggesting our product to replace MAS90, you might want to try Actinic. It’s CGI, OLE, ODBC, etc., and the folks at Web Your Business, http://www.webyourbusiness.com will be able to help with more information. Phone 1-877-416-8655, ask for Greg Hewitt-Long – Company President, tell him I sent you. If that does not workout, then visit our website and request the free demo CD to evaluate, or contact me and I’ll be more than happy to send it to you. Joe Morris e-Business Accounting Sales Consultant Icode, Inc. http://www.icode.com I believe even sage acknowledges that this is their first step towards this sector. Basically it does not allow for cross-selling, up-selling, dynamically generated content and more without paying big bucks for some MAS90 reseller to implement these modules in a legacy, proprietary fashion. And it does not separate business logic from data from the app. Using MAS90 for ecommerce only suits the simplest needs, at exorbitant costs. Igor. What are some of the problems or concerns you find with the Sage e- commerce solution for MAS90? Joe Morris Does anyone know of a (powerful) ecommerce solution that runs on Win2000 server and integrates with MAS90 in the backend? I am considering for example Broadband’s product. (but their system integrates with Siebel and SAP only). Could someone recommend a similar solution that is MAS90 enabled? Obviously I need much more flexibility and functionality than the primitive Internet.applet that Sage suggests for ecommerce. (I can’t believe some people in our company decided to NOW make the move to a legacy app such as MAS90) Thanks in advance — Igor Mack. Before you buy. — Igor Mack. Before you buy.

– Igor Mack. Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks for the insight… Short of suggesting our product to replace MAS90, you might want to try Actinic. It’s CGI, OLE, ODBC, etc., and the folks at Web Your Business, http://www.webyourbusiness.com will be able to help with more information. Phone 1-877-416-8655, ask for Greg Hewitt-Long – Company President, tell him I sent you. If that does not workout, then visit our website and request the free demo CD to evaluate, or contact me and I’ll be more than happy to send it to you. Joe Morris e-Business Accounting Sales Consultant Icode, Inc. http://www.icode.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe even sage acknowledges that this is their first step towards this sector. Basically it does not allow for cross-selling, up-selling, dynamically generated content and more without paying big bucks for some MAS90 reseller to implement these modules in a legacy, proprietary fashion. And it does not separate business logic from data from the app. Using MAS90 for ecommerce only suits the simplest needs, at exorbitant costs. Igor. What are some of the problems or concerns you find with the Sage e- commerce solution for MAS90? Joe Morris Does anyone know of a (powerful) ecommerce solution that runs on Win2000 server and integrates with MAS90 in the backend? I am considering for example Broadband’s product. (but their system integrates with Siebel and SAP only). Could someone recommend a similar solution that is MAS90 enabled? Obviously I need much more flexibility and functionality than the primitive Internet.applet that Sage suggests for ecommerce. (I can’t believe some people in our company decided to NOW make the move to a legacy app such as MAS90) Thanks in advance — Igor Mack. Before you buy. — Igor Mack. Before you buy.

Response:

I believe even sage acknowledges that this is their first step towards this sector. Basically it does not allow for cross-selling, up-selling, dynamically generated content and more without paying big bucks for some MAS90 reseller to implement these modules in a legacy, proprietary fashion. And it does not separate business logic from data from the app. Using MAS90 for ecommerce only suits the simplest needs, at exorbitant costs. Igor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are some of the problems or concerns you find with the Sage e- commerce solution for MAS90? Joe Morris Does anyone know of a (powerful) ecommerce solution that runs on Win2000 server and integrates with MAS90 in the backend? I am considering for example Broadband’s product. (but their system integrates with Siebel and SAP only). Could someone recommend a similar solution that is MAS90 enabled? Obviously I need much more flexibility and functionality than the primitive Internet.applet that Sage suggests for ecommerce. (I can’t believe some people in our company decided to NOW make the move to a legacy app such as MAS90) Thanks in advance — Igor Mack. Before you buy.

– Igor Mack. Before you buy.

Response:

What are some of the problems or concerns you find with the Sage e-commerce solution for MAS90? Joe Morris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of a (powerful) ecommerce solution that runs on Win2000 server and integrates with MAS90 in the backend? I am considering for example Broadband’s product. (but their system integrates with Siebel and SAP only). Could someone recommend a similar solution that is MAS90 enabled? Obviously I need much more flexibility and functionality than the primitive Internet.applet that Sage suggests for ecommerce. (I can’t believe some people in our company decided to NOW make the move to a legacy app such as MAS90) Thanks in advance — Igor Mack. Before you buy.

Response:

Does anyone know of a (powerful) ecommerce solution that runs on Win2000 server and integrates with MAS90 in the backend? I am considering for example Broadband’s product. (but their system integrates with Siebel and SAP only). Could someone recommend a similar solution that is MAS90 enabled? Obviously I need much more flexibility and functionality than the primitive Internet.applet that Sage suggests for ecommerce. (I can’t believe some people in our company decided to NOW make the move to a legacy app such as MAS90) Thanks in advance — Igor Mack. Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Well Done Peter. With all the garbage mulli takers and fluff makers out there, I truely respect and share in your appreciation of golf as a game of honour and self discovery.

Response:

Sometimes, I wish I had the lack of morality to count that first as a mulligan… But I’m not one to fluff my lie, take mulligans, etc. Taking an off the record shot at that "eagle" is about the most I like to bend the rules. Later, I was talking to a friend who plays to about a 5 hcp. We were watching the History of the US Open show on NBC/ABC/whatever. I admitted my regret to him that I don’t have the respect for the history of the game I wish I did, as I know so little of it.  Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson… Forgive, but they are only recognizable names to me. My friend said that playing the ugly-but-found first shot instead of the beautiful provisional is all the respect anyone needs… I think I agree with that. (Though I still will study my history, of course

I don’t get the "mulligan" mindset.  If you find the fix for that first errant drive, your score doesn’t change.  What has that accomplished for you?  Where’s the incentive to improve? Last year, I played a round with a guy who was playing a game of "personal scramble".  After EVERY shot he’d throw down a second ball, hit again, and play the best of the two shots.  He even had the audacity to brag about his score at the end of the round — a score that probably wasn’t within 25 strokes of what he would have legally shot. Maybe some people just like making contact and going for a walk in the park… and the score really doesn’t mean anything to them.  That’s fine, so long as they don’t bring any pretense that they’re a *real* golfer or that their scores represent *real* ability. As I’m sure is the case with most RSGer’s, my portfolio of playing partners play by the rules.  We don’t do mulligans, or even gimmes any more (one guy felt he wasn’t being given putts he would have had others pick up, so to resolve the problem we all putt out now). In one team tournament I played in, I hit a good chip shot out of some deep stuff leaving a tap-in for par on a hole that my teammates were butchering.  The trouble is, I double-hit the chip though nobody noticed.  When I tapped in, I announced and explained my *real* score accounting for the double-hit, and one of my teammates got on my case about it.  He argued that nobody noticed… but he was wrong.  I noticed. Peter is right… if you’re not honest in your play, you don’t have respect for the game.  That and once you hit your FIRST drive to the fringe on a par 4, or manage to chip close to the hole without double hitting… then you get to enjoy the fruit of your labors.  An honestly lower score. BW (Jeff Buege)

Response:

playing the ugly-but-found first shot instead of the beautiful provisional is all the respect anyone needs… There is no other choice…

To be clear, there was no choice to be made, the way I see it. Once I saw the first ball, there was no going back. That doesn’t mean I have to like it. I just wanted to point out the incident in the light of recent threads regarding fluffing of lies, repeated mulligans, free drops after lost balls, etc. Taking a gimme here and there for speed of play is one thing; playing from perpetually good lies, perpetually good shots is another. I’m really going to appreciate it when I actually DO drive that green now! — Peter

Response:

It sounds like you would be a joy to play golf with. Bravo for playing down the ball. Next time, you ‘ll be a little better adjusted so you could salvage a bogie instead of your other score. Oh. One other thing. That hole in 3 (with the first one in the drink) was (if I am correct) Fred Couples at TPC Sawgrass a couple of years back. (saw it live on TV) — Teresa Williamson roll call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/williamsont.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Playing a decent round for me, I arrived at the 17th hole at Shaker Hills in Harvard MA to find that the whites (from which I humbly play) are on the forward tee box. The 16th had a back up (first time I’ve ever seen one there- go figure), so there were people waiting at the 16th tee, which is within sight of the 17th green. 16 and 17 are parallel. The 17th is a short, blind par 4… about 280 from the whites, but the drive is a blind shot up and over a ridge, slight bend toward the right down to a green about level with the tee box. I’ve seen people drive the green here, but 280 is outta my league. Well, from the forward tee box, the hole plays about 260. I figure why not, and put the reliable, smart-play 3 wood back in the bag and pull out Captain Chaos. Shot is bleeding right, but from the tee, it’s hard to tell whether the blind landing will be in trouble or not. Some woods are in that area, and lost balls are possible, as they always are when the landing zone is blind. So I hit a provisional. Crushed it- best drive of month. Well, the first shot wasn’t hard to find… It landed five feet from one of the club’s instructors. (I had yelled FORE, so he forgave me the close encounter). It lay nestled at the base of a shrub, a good 12" from the edge of the shrub. I couldn’t hit it with a weed wacker. The provisional? Center cut, front edge fringe, a puttable 20 feet from the pin, of course. The twosome saw the provisional as we rounded the ridge, said "where did that come from… You? That’s sick." First time I’ve ever impressed strangers enough to evoke a response. Ah well… Time to own up to honesty… Take the unplayable lie… I was so put off, I chunked the chip from the pine needles, skulled the chip from the rough, three putted… For whatever it’s worth, with the permission of my partners, I made an off-the-scorecard attempt with the provisional as well. Missed the "eagle" putt (Yeah, I know it was really for par… but I’ve not yet found my first eagle) Reminds me of that poster a few months back who hit a hole in one on his provisional on a par three… Not really a hole in one, but I’d have trouble counting it against him. Sometimes, I wish I had the lack of morality to count that first as a mulligan… But I’m not one to fluff my lie, take mulligans, etc. Taking an off the record shot at that "eagle" is about the most I like to bend the rules. Later, I was talking to a friend who plays to about a 5 hcp. We were watching the History of the US Open show on NBC/ABC/whatever. I admitted my regret to him that I don’t have the respect for the history of the game I wish I did, as I know so little of it.  Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson… Forgive, but they are only recognizable names to me. My friend said that playing the ugly-but-found first shot instead of the beautiful provisional is all the respect anyone needs… I think I agree with that. (Though I still will study my history, of course — Peter Anton

Response:

Oh. One other thing. That hole in 3 (with the first one in the drink) was (if I am correct) Fred Couples at TPC Sawgrass a couple of years back. (saw it live on TV)

Yes, he did it. But I was referring to a poster here in RSG who did the same (or a similar) feat. I think in the case of the rsg poster, the first shot went into woods near the green as opposed to in the water. So, the Hole-in-3 ball was truly a provisional. I think the poster went on to say that he didn’t look too hard for the first ball. — Peter John Anton Technical Manager, MicroPRINT Waltham, Mass., USA 781-890-7500

Response:

Playing a decent round for me, I arrived at the 17th hole at Shaker Hills in Harvard MA to find that the whites (from which I humbly play) are on the forward tee box.

Nice course.  Crappy policy about paying for the cart whether you use it or not. Later, I was talking to a friend who plays to about a 5 hcp. We were watching the History of the US Open show on NBC/ABC/whatever. I admitted my regret to him that I don’t have the respect for the history of the game I wish I did, as I know so little of it.  Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson… Forgive, but they are only recognizable names to me. My friend said that playing the ugly-but-found first shot instead of the beautiful provisional is all the respect anyone needs… I think I agree with that. (Though I still will study my history, of course — Peter Anton

Clearly you have plenty of respect for the game.  What is missing is knowledge about the great players of the past. Two separate things, I’d prefer to play with someone with respect for the game than with a walking-encyclopedia who doesn’t know how to play by the rules or replace his divots. —     –dph.         (preferred email: dhayes AT iname DOT com) Before you buy.

Response:

Hogan, Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson… Forgive, but they are only recognizable names to me. My friend said that playing the ugly-but-found first shot instead of the beautiful provisional is all the respect anyone needs…

There is no other choice…   Oscar

Response:

Playing a decent round for me, I arrived at the 17th hole at Shaker Hills in Harvard MA to find that the whites (from which I humbly play) are on the forward tee box. The 16th had a back up (first time I’ve ever seen one there- go figure), so there were people waiting at the 16th tee, which is within sight of the 17th green. 16 and 17 are parallel. The 17th is a short, blind par 4… about 280 from the whites, but the drive is a blind shot up and over a ridge, slight bend toward the right down to a green about level with the tee box. I’ve seen people drive the green here, but 280 is outta my league. Well, from the forward tee box, the hole plays about 260. I figure why not, and put the reliable, smart-play 3 wood back in the bag and pull out Captain Chaos. Shot is bleeding right, but from the tee, it’s hard to tell whether the blind landing will be in trouble or not. Some woods are in that area, and lost balls are possible, as they always are when the landing zone is blind. So I hit a provisional. Crushed it- best drive of month. Well, the first shot wasn’t hard to find… It landed five feet from one of the club’s instructors. (I had yelled FORE, so he forgave me the close encounter). It lay nestled at the base of a shrub, a good 12" from the edge of the shrub. I couldn’t hit it with a weed wacker. The provisional? Center cut, front edge fringe, a puttable 20 feet from the pin, of course. The twosome saw the provisional as we rounded the ridge, said "where did that come from… You? That’s sick." First time I’ve ever impressed strangers enough to evoke a response. Ah well… Time to own up to honesty… Take the unplayable lie… I was so put off, I chunked the chip from the pine needles, skulled the chip from the rough, three putted… For whatever it’s worth, with the permission of my partners, I made an off-the-scorecard attempt with the provisional as well. Missed the "eagle" putt (Yeah, I know it was really for par… but I’ve not yet found my first eagle) Reminds me of that poster a few months back who hit a hole in one on his provisional on a par three… Not really a hole in one, but I’d have trouble counting it against him. Sometimes, I wish I had the lack of morality to count that first as a mulligan… But I’m not one to fluff my lie, take mulligans, etc. Taking an off the record shot at that "eagle" is about the most I like to bend the rules. Later, I was talking to a friend who plays to about a 5 hcp. We were watching the History of the US Open show on NBC/ABC/whatever. I admitted my regret to him that I don’t have the respect for the history of the game I wish I did, as I know so little of it.  Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson… Forgive, but they are only recognizable names to me. My friend said that playing the ugly-but-found first shot instead of the beautiful provisional is all the respect anyone needs… I think I agree with that. (Though I still will study my history, of course — Peter Anton

Response:

Question:

What side of the bed did you get out of this morning tick?   Maybe we all can’t be as whity as you every time we respond.   I am not going to apologize for any lack of luster in any of my posts to anyone.  Nothing like making someone that has a hard time expressing themselves such as I feel really self-conscious. Maybe it is our shitty Texas weather that has got to you today — ummmm! My best to you anyway–Carol

Response:

Damn, was it something I said?  I admitted I was in the equation.   I feel great.  And the weather is lovely, just the way I like it.  Read back over the years and you’ll see I get up on the same side of the bed every day. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. Tick *****Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened***** http://community.webtv.net/OLTICK/GTakaTICKsWEBPAGE

Response:

Group: alt.support.mult-sclerosis Date: Fri, Mar 17, 2000, 5:30pm  From: OLT…@webtv.net (GT

Question:

What do you think about hedge accounting for anticipated transaction? for example, if in year 1 you buy foerign currency to hedge the curruncy risk of a expected buy of staock for the nest year, and at the end of year 1 you have a loss in the currency? that expense must be accounted in year 1 or must be included in the cost of the stock in year 2.

Response:

What do you think about hedge accounting for anticipated transaction? for example, if in year 1 you buy foerign currency to hedge the curruncy risk of a expected buy of staock for the nest year, and at the end of year 1 you have a loss in the currency? that expense must be accounted in year 1 or must be included in the cost of the stock in year 2.

This is an incomplete thought! I would have considered this a financing question. Hence would have taken to the P&L the change in the value of the hedge. Regards John

Response:

Question:

This story is soooooooo old, almost as old as the net itself. Mike

Response:

NEIMAN-MARCUS COOKIES You have got to be kidding, resurrecting this old chain letter. This is a LIE, this person never purchased any cookies from NEIMAM-MARCUS.

But it’s an interesting urban legend. I read it in a newspaper nearly a year ago. Nice story isn’t it?

Response:

Cute…I’m new to the net By perseverance the snail reached the ark!!!

Response:

NEIMAN-MARCUS COOKIES My daughter and I had just finished a salad at Neiman-Marcus Caf