Question:

The teflon V.P. —

snipped At the very least, couldn’t we have a Dr. Phil show with George W. and Dick the Prick – with Georgie Porgie telling Dr. Phil that he just doesn’t trust him like he used to, and Dr. Phil could put the trust back in their relationship. And we could send Colin Powell for celebrity makeover – where he would get Lasik eye surgery so that he could tell the difference between flat bed trucks and mobile truck mounted rocket launchers in grainy satellite photographs. Any other ideas? Doug Thomas

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The teflon V.P. — snipped At the very least, couldn’t we have a Dr. Phil show with George W. and Dick the Prick – with Georgie Porgie telling Dr. Phil that he just doesn’t trust him like he used to, and Dr. Phil could put the trust back in their relationship. And we could send Colin Powell for celebrity makeover – where he would get Lasik eye surgery so that he could tell the difference between flat bed trucks and mobile truck mounted rocket launchers in grainy satellite photographs. Any other ideas? Doug Thomas

From the look on Cheney’s face as well as Condi Rice’s and the other Bush Gangbangers during the SOTU speech, they all know they’re gong to jail. Marley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

The teflon V.P.

As opposed to a teflon facilitator? steve

Response:

The teflon V.P. Updated: 04:25 AM EST Halliburton Tells Pentagon Workers Took Kickbacks By NEIL KING JR., Wall Street Journal WASHINGTON (Jan. 23) — Halliburton Co. has told the Pentagon that two employees took kickbacks valued at up to $6 million in return for awarding a Kuwaiti-based company with lucrative work supplying U.S. troops in Iraq.   The disclosure is the first firm indication of corruption involving U.S.-funded projects in Iraq and raises new questions about Halliburton’s dealings there. The company’s work already is being scrutinized because of accusations that the U.S. government was overcharged for gasoline under another controversial contract. Halliburton has strenuously defended its Iraq work as fairly priced and free of taint. A discovery of kickbacks could expose the company to hefty fines and other punishments such as potential fraud charges. At the least, contracting experts say, Halliburton will be required to reimburse the money. Any blow could be softened by the fact that Halliburton itself disclosed the misconduct to the Pentagon inspector general’s office this week. That disclosure came just days after the top Defense Department auditor asked the office to investigate whether Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root overcharged for fuel deliveries by more than $61 million.   The latest revelation, though, is sure to increase the already intense scrutiny Halliburton has received from congressional Democrats, some of whom charge that the Houston-based company benefited from political favoritism in securing lucrative work in Iraq. The news also is likely to further raise suspicions abroad that Iraq reconstruction work is largely benefiting U.S. companies and their employees. Vice President Dick Cheney, who was chairman of Halliburton until he left in 2000, defended the company Wednesday in a Fox Radio Network interview. "They get unfairly maligned simply because of their past association with me," he said. Halliburton stressed that it promptly told the Pentagon of the problem. "The key issue here is self-disclosure and self-reporting," a Halliburton spokeswoman said. "Halliburton internal auditors found the irregularity, which is a violation of our company’s philosophy, policy and our code of ethics. We found it quickly, and we immediately reported it to the inspector general. We do not tolerate this kind of behavior by anyone at any level in any Halliburton company." A company statement said the payments were "detected through the company’s internal control procedures." The company has fired the two employees, who were based in Kuwait and whose names were not disclosed. Halliburton said it could not discuss specifics of the matter because of a Pentagon review. KBR is now repairing Iraqi oil fields and supplying everything from food and laundry services to housing for U.S. troops and coalition officials in Iraq under two huge contracts valued at up to $16 billion. That work has so far cost nearly $6 billion, well over twice what has gone to all of the other 40 U.S. contractors in Iraq, according to government records. In all, the U.S. has so far funded a total of about $9 billion in Iraqi reconstruction costs, and expects to award contracts valued at another $18.6 billion. Both the congressional general accounting office and the Pentagon are now completing large-scale investigations of all U.S.-funded reconstruction work in Iraq. The alleged kickbacks involve the same KBR contracting office in Kuwait that handled the controversial gasoline contract. The Pentagon inspector general’s office received the disclosure while conducting its own review to decide whether to open a criminal investigation into the gasoline contract. Pentagon officials decline to comment on the status of that investigation. The current accusations do not involve the gasoline contract. Instead, the Kuwaiti company is said to have paid kickbacks to the KBR officials after winning lucrative subcontracts to help supply U.S. troops in Iraq under what’s known as KBR’s LogCap contract. U.S. officials declined to provide specifics on the subcontracts involved or the name of the company implicated in the payoffs. Halliburton said in a statement that its disclosure of what it called a "potential overcharge" was a sign of its "diligence" in managing its Iraq contracts. "KBR will ensure that questionable charges will be credited to the government and will seek recovery from the offending subcontractor." Halliburton negotiated its current LogCap contract with a very thin profit margin of 1% over costs. It has a maximum bonus of an added 2% available if it delivers the needed services in an expeditious way. But under these so-called cost-plus arrangements, companies have little incentive to rein in costs or to assure that they pick the most competitive subcontractors, since the higher the costs, the higher the profit. The disclosure comes as Pentagon documents continue to raise broader questions about KBR’s financial controls in Iraq. A previously undisclosed Jan. 13 memorandum from a branch office of the Defense Contract Audit Agency labels as "inadequate" KBR’s system for accurately estimating the cost of ongoing work in order to justify payments. The memo was sent to various Army contracting officials. The Pentagon has had to reject two huge proposed bills from KBR, including one for $2.7 billion, because of myriad "deficiencies," the memo says. "We consider [the company's] estimates in the area of subcontracts to be inadequate," the memo says. The agency is now auditing proposed KBR bills totaling $2.1 billion, the memo says. Pentagon auditors last month said that KBR’s Kuwaiti supplier, Altanmia Commercial Marketing Co., was charging the U.S. almost double the market price for gasoline. Auditors said the overcharging amounted to $61 million through September, and as much as $20 million a month since then. The Army Corps defended the company’s hiring of Altanmia in a lengthy Jan. 6 report. The report said KBR had "urgent and compelling needs" to use the Kuwaiti supplier, even at significantly higher prices than other potential suppliers. Still, Pentagon officials are likely to home in on the circumstances under which KBR hired Altanmia. The Army Corps report says KBR picked Altanmia on May 5 after making phone calls to just two other bidders. Officials say there is no indication of kickbacks involving Altanmia. A number of anonymous whistleblowers have come forward in recent weeks with often-detailed allegations of KBR wrongdoing in Kuwait, including accusations of paybacks from companies that received lucrative subcontracting work from KBR, according to U.S. officials and congressional sources. These reports in turn have been taken up by the Pentagon’s IG office. The Pentagon’s fuel unit, the Defense Energy Support Center, solicited bids Thursday for three fuel-delivery contracts meant to replace the work that KBR is now performing. KBR officials have said for months that they wanted out of the work, which they described as dangerous and not very profitable. Copyright

Question:

profiling is based on statistical analysis, imo. we all do it without even realising it everday.

True, and properly used it is a very useful tool.  This is why the enforcement organizations have put up such a howl about having it taken away.

While profiling can be effective, I disagree that it is necessarily based on SA.  Its use should be monitored and it’s misuse precluded. It would be indefensible of the Germans and our police agencies to ignore red flags— that said, there is a difference between keeping an eye open and acting without specific cause. Tippy

Response:

I thought I’d branch off a bit on this one and propose what I see as what the "hoped for" change in behavior would be from the indictment of Andersen.  My own bias is that, to the extent the indictment (and other related issues coming from Enron) achieve this goal, they achieve a good. And to the extent they do not, they are arguably counterproductive. To oversimplify a bit, I see three classes of CPAs we have to deal with: 1.  Those who are totally honest, above board, and who will also not tolerate actions by any person in the organization they are working for that violates professional standards.  To tie it to Enron–had they seen the shredding taking place or had they become aware of accounting issues that Duncan was "papering over" against the recommendations of the PSG, they would have kept pushing complaints up the line until either someone at the organization took action *OR* they decided they couldn’t work for the organization any longer. I fully believe there *are* these types at Andersen and that they will be unjustly punished by whatever negative results occur to Andersen due to the Enron fiasco. 2.  Those who are more than willing to violate any standard or do virtually anything, based solely on a cold calculation of the potential benefit as opposed to the odds of getting caught and the expected punishment if they are.  These individuals exist in firms of all sizes, and they would be best removed from the profession.   3.  Those who are as honest and above board as the first group with regard to any work they personally do, but who will turn a blind eye towards actions of others in the firm even though they are actions that the individual him/herself would never do so long as it doesn’t appear such actions will have an impact on him/her personally. I don’t know for sure, but I expect that a large portion of the Houston office is made up of such people.  And, frankly, that many of those in upper management in Chicago that were watching Enron from afar were also of this persuasion. This third group is the one whose behavior you would have to hope the whole Enron situation will change.  That is, if they sit by and let the David Duncans of the world (who *will* exist in firms of all sizes) act without restrictions, there will be a personal negative impact on them.  

Response:

I thought I’d branch off a bit on this one and propose what I see as what the "hoped for" change in behavior would be from the indictment of Andersen.  My own bias is that, to the extent the indictment (and other related issues coming from Enron) achieve this goal, they achieve a good. And to the extent they do not, they are arguably counterproductive. To oversimplify a bit, I see three classes of CPAs we have to deal with: 1.  Those who are totally honest, …

<<SNIP I fully believe there *are* these types at Andersen and that they will be unjustly punished by whatever negative results occur to Andersen due to the Enron fiasco. 2.  Those who are more than willing to violate any standard …

<<SNIP 3.  Those who … will turn a blind eye towards actions …

<<SNIP I don’t know for sure, but I expect that a large portion of the Houston office is made up of such people.  And, frankly, that many of those in upper management in Chicago that were watching Enron from afar were also of this persuasion.

I agree that most CPAs can be categorized in one of the above classes. (I started to say there could be a 4th group, CPAs who stray only rarely, but that would be group #2 members who attach either a high probability or a high negative payoff, or both, to being caught.)  You and I might disagree as to how many of Andersen’s Chicago and Houston partners belong in group #3 vs group #2. I have the firmly held opinion that those in group #3 who held positions of direct authority/responsibility also would be best removed from the profession. There comes a point when willingness to ignore the transgressions of others is, in fact, being an accessory to those transgressions. This third group is the one whose behavior you would have to hope the whole Enron situation will change.  That is, if they sit by and let the David Duncans of the world (who *will* exist in firms of all sizes) act without restrictions, there will be a personal negative impact on them.

I absolutely agree that changing the behavior of the 3rd group is the goal. (Bouncing group #2 out of the profession is another important goal.)  I also believe that another round of federal action that did not include an indictment of the firm would have failed to achieve this goal. In particular, anything short of an indictment of Andersen as a firm would likely have had almost no impact on the behavior of members of group #3 at other firms. Clearly, members of group #3 at Andersen didn’t change their behavior after Sunbeam, Waste Management or the Baptist Foundation; it’s doubtful that any of them would have changed this time if the Enron fiasco had not led to the firm being indicted. Thanks for starting this thread. Regards, Bill

Response:

True, and properly used it is a very useful tool.  This is why the enforcement organizations have put up such a howl about having it taken away.

… profiling is based on statistical analysis, imo. we all do it without even realising it everday.

….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – profiling seems easy. You apparently don’t understand what "profiling" is. We haven’t gotten to that part yet. greetings to you bill. i understand that there are many types of profiling (car drivers, computer users, and of objects and processes). ending up in a class category would of course require the development of profiling criteria and secondly the application or the act of profiling, and finally classifiying the end results. the original poster i replied to created classifications and my two cents added a fouth. Then you do understand that profiling means assigning individuals to a class based on normally irrelevant characteristics. Putting a liar in the liar classification would not be profiling. Putting blue-eyed redheads in the liar class because a couple of them lied to you one time would be profiling. as far as profiling goes, imho, the characteristics are generally revelevant in the profilers mind. if they are based on false preconceptions they result in data that is false and misleading and irrevelant. but we all do it and it serves a basic purpose. getting off topic but this can probably be associated with audit sampling.

Correct, Joseph. And what proportion of audit time do we spend doing sampling, without which our conclusions lack a scientific base? In order to perpetrate even more creative accounting, soft fraudsters have pushed audit fees so low that many auditors (in particular Big 4 at publicly quoted entities) have reduced statistical sampling to nil. AFAIK "profiling" has recently become a buzz word due to uses and abuses by governments. E. g. last autumn German federal and state police corps profiled ("Rasterfahndung") "terrorists" as: a) practising Muslims b) no criminal history c) unobtrusive life style d) well educated and started, in true Gestapo style except for having a search warrant, raiding appartments and homes of people (potentially about 2 million) fulfilling the above profile before dawn. The German courts quickly put a stop to this declaring it unconstitutional. And rightly so. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Legion of Doom KGB sentiero luminoso Palestine Ft. Bragg Treasury Iran

Response:

<<SNIP The governmental imposition of an audit requirement is wrong. The governmental protection of the industry excluding competition is wrong. Governmental support and maintenance of the veil of secrecy protecting corporations themselves from oversight by their own stakeholders is wrong.  GAAP is the definition of the

You do realize that if your first two wrongs are, in your definition righted, the third wrong you list will become exceedingly more wrong? If you don’t realize that then you understand nothing about human behavior. easy2000

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – profiling seems easy. You apparently don’t understand what "profiling" is. We haven’t gotten to that part yet. greetings to you bill. i understand that there are many types of profiling (car drivers, computer users, and of objects and processes). ending up in a class category would of course require the development of profiling criteria and secondly the application or the act of profiling, and finally classifiying the end results. the original poster i replied to created classifications and my two cents added a fouth.

Then you do understand that profiling means assigning individuals to a class based on normally irrelevant characteristics. Putting a liar in the liar classification would not be profiling. Putting blue-eyed redheads in the liar class because a couple of them lied to you one time would be profiling. Regards, Bill

Response:

"Active ignorance" is not exclusive to the Big Few.  I suspect we all use it from time to time.  I know I do.

I also think we all do it–it is a way to perceive yourself as being above board and always willing to do the right thing without having to actually risk having to make the hard decision.  I think anytime you run into one of these problems, there is an immediate thought of "I wish I didn’t know this" that crops into most people’s heads.  So it shouldn’t be surprising that we be motivated to attempt to avoid discovering such information–but likely not consciously realize that we were doing just that. That is, did we dismiss performing procedure A because it truly was "unnecessary" and "not cost beneficial" or was it because it might have uncovered a fact that would have made us uncomfortable?  Did we find the information given to us by a disgruntled former employee of the client unreliable because it was likely simply sour grapes, or because it would create real problems and issues if it did turn out to be true?  My guess is that parties involved will always sincerely *believe* the first premise, but when things fall apart the view of a dispassionate outsider is always going to lean toward the second motivation being the real one.

Response:

profiling seems easy.

You apparently don’t understand what "profiling" is. We haven’t gotten to that part yet. Regards, Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Active ignorance" is not exclusive to the Big Few.  I suspect we all use it from time to time.  I know I do. I also think we all do it–it is a way to perceive yourself as being above board and always willing to do the right thing without having to actually risk having to make the hard decision.  I think anytime you run into one of these problems, there is an immediate thought of "I wish I didn’t know this" that crops into most people’s heads.  So it shouldn’t be surprising that we be motivated to attempt to avoid discovering such information–but likely not consciously realize that we were doing just that. That is, did we dismiss performing procedure A because it truly was "unnecessary" and "not cost beneficial" or was it because it might have uncovered a fact that would have made us uncomfortable?  Did we find the information given to us by a disgruntled former employee of the client unreliable because it was likely simply sour grapes, or because it would create real problems and issues if it did turn out to be true?  My guess is that parties involved will always sincerely *believe* the first premise, but when things fall apart the view of a dispassionate outsider is always going to lean toward the second motivation being the real one.

In my own case it has more to to with exhaustion and burnout than anything else.  In order to keep getting up in the morning I have to pass on a few.  At this point in my life I consciously ask the question,  "Is dealing with this situation worth what it is going to cost me", and quite often the answer is simply "No".  "Active ignorance" then becomes a defense mechanism. Someone asked earlier if "active ignorance" and "plausible deniability" are the same.  I would assert that they are not.  "Active ignorance" is a knowing effort to avoid dealing with something.  "Plausible deniability" is an effort to not only deal with something but to deal with it in such a way as to make it impossible for any outsider to trace responsibility back to the person who actually controlled the event. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

Response:

profiling seems easy. You apparently don’t understand what "profiling" is. We haven’t gotten to that part yet.

greetings to you bill. i understand that there are many types of profiling (car drivers, computer users, and of objects and processes). ending up in a class category would of course require the development of profiling criteria and secondly the application or the act of profiling, and finally classifiying the end results. the original poster i replied to created classifications and my two cents added a fouth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regards, Bill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 3.  Those who are as honest and above board as the first group with regard to any work they personally do, but who will turn a blind eye towards actions of others in the firm even though they are actions that the individual him/herself would never do so long as it doesn’t appear such actions will have an impact on him/her personally. profiling seems easy. why not add a catch-all category for the chamelons, enigmas, and the untested newbies. imho, most practitioners would fall in the third and fourth categories. This  is true enough in the world at large.  Why should it be any different with  accountants?

it should not be any different. i have all along disagreed with the promotional efforts of some orgs and repeated likewise by individuals that (something like) ‘cpas are the most trusted professionals when compared to doctors and lawyers – as preceived by the public’. one could say the key word is *preceived*. why in the world would any profession embark on an advertising campaign with such rubbish, not to mention truth in advertising claims. cpas would. and the reason why is to capitalize on those *preceptions* for economic gain. the public therefore expects delivery of the goods for wish they paid. While judgment is essential to survival, we do need to use care and maintain some humility.  At the end of the day we are all sinners.

the latter is true without exception and all else stated is certainly good advice in most if not all situations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought I’d branch off a bit on this one and propose what I see as what the "hoped for" change in behavior would be from the indictment of Andersen.  My own bias is that, to the extent the indictment (and other related issues coming from Enron) achieve this goal, they achieve a good. And to the extent they do not, they are arguably counterproductive. To oversimplify a bit, I see three classes of CPAs we have to deal with: 1.  Those who are totally honest, above board, and who will also not tolerate actions by any person in the organization they are working for that violates professional standards.  To tie it to Enron–had they seen the shredding taking place or had they become aware of accounting issues that Duncan was "papering over" against the recommendations of the PSG, they would have kept pushing complaints up the line until either someone at the organization took action *OR* they decided they couldn’t work for the organization any longer. I fully believe there *are* these types at Andersen and that they will be unjustly punished by whatever negative results occur to Andersen due to the Enron fiasco. 2.  Those who are more than willing to violate any standard or do virtually anything, based solely on a cold calculation of the potential benefit as opposed to the odds of getting caught and the expected punishment if they are.  These individuals exist in firms of all sizes, and they would be best removed from the profession. 3.  Those who are as honest and above board as the first group with regard to any work they personally do, but who will turn a blind eye towards actions of others in the firm even though they are actions that the individual him/herself would never do so long as it doesn’t appear such actions will have an impact on him/her personally.

profiling seems easy. why not add a catch-all category for the chamelons, enigmas, and the untested newbies. imho, most practitioners would fall in the third and fourth categories. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know for sure, but I expect that a large portion of the Houston office is made up of such people.  And, frankly, that many of those in upper management in Chicago that were watching Enron from afar were also of this persuasion. This third group is the one whose behavior you would have to hope the whole Enron situation will change.  That is, if they sit by and let the David Duncans of the world (who *will* exist in firms of all sizes) act without restrictions, there will be a personal negative impact on them.

Response:

3.  Those who are as honest and above board as the first group with regard to any work they personally do, but who will turn a blind eye towards actions of others in the firm even though they are actions that the individual him/herself would never do so long as it doesn’t appear such actions will have an impact on him/her personally. profiling seems easy. why not add a catch-all category for the chamelons, enigmas, and the untested newbies. imho, most practitioners would fall in the third and fourth categories.

This  is true enough in the world at large.  Why should it be any different with  accountants? While judgment is essential to survival, we do need to use care and maintain some humility.  At the end of the day we are all sinners. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

Response:

There comes a point when willingness to ignore the transgressions of others is, in fact, being an accessory to those transgressions.

Actually, since most people recognize that, what often becomes the coping behavior is what I would call "active ignorance"–that is, attempting to insure you won’t become aware of any problem.  You hear it quite a bit in discussing this case–that partners and staff who didn’t know about the case should be exempt from harm. I can accept an argument of sorts for those who reasonably *couldn’t* have known (and I’m willing to accept that a mid-market senior in Greensboro, NC couldn’t have known about the activities in any of the cited cases).  But, for the reason noted above, I think we have to resist any attempt to make ignorance, in and of itself, a complete defense.  Because what that teaches people is to practice "don’t ask–don’t tell" with regard to the actions of anyone in the firm. I think that, if analyzed, we’ll find that many in Chicago practiced "active ignorance"–that is they didn’t really want to know what was going on with regard to Enron because they were afraid of what they might have to do if they did know about it.  So that type of denial allowed them to send Duncan back to Houston still running the Enron engagement, despite warning flags that Duncan was willing to cut *lots* of corners (after all, wasn’t that really what the meeting was all about?).

Response:

There comes a point when willingness to ignore the transgressions of others is, in fact, being an accessory to those transgressions. Actually, since most people recognize that, what often becomes the coping behavior is what I would call "active ignorance"–that is, attempting to insure you won’t become aware of any problem.  You hear it quite a bit in discussing this case–that partners and staff who didn’t know about the case should be exempt from harm.

"Active ignorance" is not exclusive to the Big Few.  I suspect we all use it from time to time.  I know I do. In fact, in roughly thirty years of accounting I have had one client that I thought was absolutely incorruptible.  Then he got audited by an obscure agency over some trivial item, and I discovered where he had been cutting corners. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

Response:

There comes a point when willingness to ignore the transgressions of others is, in fact, being an accessory to those transgressions. Actually, since most people recognize that, what often becomes the coping behavior is what I would call "active ignorance"–that is, attempting to insure you won’t become aware of any problem.  You hear it quite a bit in discussing this case–that partners and staff who didn’t know about the case should be exempt from harm.

_Consciously_ attempting to avoid learning details that might make the "actively ignorant" no longer ignorant, right? Is this anything like "plausible deniability"? I can accept an argument of sorts for those who reasonably *couldn’t* have known (and I’m willing to accept that a mid-market senior in Greensboro, NC couldn’t have known about the activities in any of the cited cases).  But,

But, after several audit failures in a row, even someone in that locale should, in my opinion, have serious doubts/questions about what was going on at higher levels in the firm. (Not that I’m saying such a person should have been raising a lot of dust. Rather, becoming more alert and more skeptical.) for the reason noted above, I think we have to resist any attempt to make ignorance, in and of itself, a complete defense.  Because what that teaches people is to practice "don’t ask–don’t tell" with regard to the actions of anyone in the firm.

I agree that ignorance is NOT an absolute defense, particularly for those who had a responsibility to be not ignorant. I think the phrase, "knew or should have known" is quite applicable here. I think that, if analyzed, we’ll find that many in Chicago practiced "active ignorance"–that is they didn’t really want to know what was going

I fear too many partners throughout Andersen (and other firms as well) have been practicing "active ignorance." Worse, they’ve been teaching the people below themselves to practice it, too. on with regard to Enron because they were afraid of what they might have to do if they did know about it.  So that type of denial allowed them to send Duncan back to Houston still running the Enron engagement, despite warning flags that Duncan was willing to cut *lots* of corners (after all, wasn’t that really what the meeting was all about?).

It takes a tough attitude as well as a belief of being correct to overcome what seems to be a natural human trait – the desire to avoid confrontation. Overcoming that avoidance behavior is something I myself have been working on in recent years. Regards, Bill

Response:

To oversimplify a bit, I see three classes of CPAs we have to deal with: 1.  Those who are totally honest, above board, and who will not tolerate [...] 2.  Those who are more than willing to violate any standard or do virtually anything, based solely on a cold calculation of the potential benefit [...] 3.  Those who are as honest and above board as the first group with regard to any work they personally do, but who will turn a blind eye towards actions of others [...] so long as it doesn’t appear such actions will have an impact on him/her personally.

There you go again, trying to "fix the culture". No matter what you or anybody else says, there will always be a powerful and continuous moral hazard in auditing.  Anytime you have one class of people having the power to eat from the granary of other people’s production, eating will happen. The American people don’t *want* to have to trust CPAs, and they don’t *need* to trust CPAs.  Rather, CPAs and regulators impose this layer of bureaucracy without giving investors any choice in the matter. The governmental imposition of an audit requirement is wrong. The governmental protection of the industry excluding competition is wrong. Governmental support and maintenance of the veil of secrecy protecting corporations themselves from oversight by their own stakeholders is wrong.  GAAP is the definition of the minimum required disclosure.  That is, the maximum toleraable lying and omission.  IN an age when every transaction of the company is indexed and available for inspection all these structures and the lying they permit, are obsolete. Lets get back to basics, why there are financial statements and auditors in the first place: because 70years ago there was not even the barest agreement of */any* enforceable meaning of the textual descriptions of transactions.   The posture of today’s CPA is nothing but that of an exploiter, exploiting laws created of necessity 70 years ago only to enrich themselves, while contributing NOTHING to the fundamental goal of transparency and governance of corporations, Those who may agree, might sign this petition.  I don’t expect many of you on this list, have the insight to see the corruption in your own hearts.  Comfortable within your belief system of decades, indoctrinated by university courses and countless annual hours of CPE, reassured by your fellow accountants you believe the world really needs your fatherly and patronizing role.  You really believe markets are made more efficient and the savings of the old are safeguarded by your activities recharacterizing and re-labeling of the facts of exchanges conducted between the peasant class.  Whether they like it or not, and to prison with those who disobey. http://www.petitiononline.com/FinDereg/petition.html Todd Todd Boyle CPA  9745-128th Ave NE  Kirkland WA International Accounting Services, LLC  www.gldialtone.com 425-827-3107  AR/AP everywhere  www.arapxml.net

Response:

It takes a tough attitude as well as a belief of being correct to overcome what seems to be a natural human trait – the desire to avoid confrontation. Overcoming that avoidance behavior is something I myself have been working on in recent years. Regards, Bill

I never had that problem during my tenure EY.  As a result you can imagine I was not too successful!  Haww!   They kept me in my cubicle, worked me 18 hours a day and threw meat over the wall to feeed me.  Some of the other guys worked even more hours.  ONe guy sat so many hours at his chair, over the years, his pecker shriveled up and fell off, I think its a common malady, I hated the neckties more, they cut off your circulation. I only wore mine in the office.  As soon as I got out the door I loosened it and slipped it over my head so i wouldnt have to tie it again in the morning. After many years of this, and only having four or five neckties they got really appallingly greasy around the knot, and they actually, somehow got infested with fleas on the subway. http://www.gldialtone.com/tokyomemes.htm D*mned things all got infected since they were all in my desk drawer.  I put them all in a bag and cooked em in the office microwave, man thos things were sizzlin, they was talkin’ to me, man.   I never had anymore problem with the fleas, When I quit I don’t know who was more relieved, me or EY, I wish I woulda been in David Duncan’s office.  I would have enjoyed tearing his games apart, just for the sadistic pleasure.  Probably I would have ended up dead, like that guy they shot in Houston, http://www.google.com/search?q=enron+suicide+murder Todd

Response:

-snip- Those who may agree, might sign this petition.  I don’t expect many of you on this list, have the insight to see the corruption in your own hearts.  Comfortable within your belief system of decades, indoctrinated by university courses and countless annual hours of CPE, reassured by your fellow accountants you believe the world really needs your fatherly and patronizing role.

If one truly believes that what he is doing is right, there is no corruption.  The right or wrong of the belief itself is irrelevant.  Only when one no longer truly believes his convictions does the seed of corruption get sown. You really believe markets are made more efficient and the savings of the old are safeguarded by your activities recharacterizing and re-labeling of the facts of exchanges conducted between the peasant class.  Whether they like it or not, and to prison with those who disobey.

So, let me get this straight.  The purpose of the petition is to make financial reporting completely transparent, to "level the playing field" so to speak, for all users of financial data.  I think that is the message I am getting from it, yet Section A Paragraph 4 of the petitions says that the amount of transparency should be proportionate to the level of ownership of the company.  How is that equalizing anything? — Todd Stephens

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And since he is sitting in The Chair, he ought to take the usual heat for it, and if it turns out he’s really dirty, well, even better. Harry Krause – - I see you are now setting the stage knowing nothing will come from the Enron investigation, at least nothing that Bush or Cheney did wrong.

Not at all. My position hasn’t changed. I know Bush and Cheney are dirty…it only remains to be seen how dirty. I’m hoping for "really dirty." Again, most of you righties have a real problem with language. Whatever you do for your living, stick to it. Words are not your forte. — Harry Krause – - There is nothing fairer than workmen having unions for their mutual benefit. – Will Rogers

Response:

Words are not your forte.

Neither are they yours, since you have such problems making yourself understood. Brickwriting is your forte as I remember it. How well do you need to write in order to explain bricklaying? Delete ImtheNRA in order to spam me. The Second Amendment isn’t about deer hunting.

Response:

I know Bush and Cheney are

dirty…it only remains to be seen how dirty. I’m hoping for "really dirty."<< — Harry Why?  So the U.S. can be besmirched while trying to fight a war against terrorists? When are you finally going to leave the country you seem to hate?

Response:

I know Bush and Cheney are dirty…it only remains to be seen how dirty. I’m hoping for "really dirty."<< — Harry Why?  So the U.S. can be besmirched while trying to fight a war against terrorists? When are you finally going to leave the country you seem to hate?

1. Bush and Cheney are not the US…they are simply politicians, and slimy, lying ones at that. 2. The US talks the talk about fighting a war against terrorists, but it isn’t walking the walk. Freeing Afghanistan from the Taliban was a good thing, to be sure, but the Taliban were merely an agent of the core of terrorism, whose funding and power emanates from Saudi Arabia and other oil-drenched Arab states. 3. I find it remarkably consistent you Repugs have in common the idea that if one is critical of Repug leaders, one hates one’s country and therefore should leave it. In the words of Edward R. Murrow: "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Well, I’m not leaving. Choke on that. — Harry Krause – - MAD Magazine named Konservative Rev. Jerry Falwell the "dumbest person of 2001" for blaming the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on gays and lesbians, feminists and other groups. "We thought Falwell had reached his personal pinnacle of dumbness a few years ago when he accused the Teletubbies of promoting homosexuality," said MAD editor John Ficarra. "Give the guy credit, we underestimated him."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The investigation has just begun and look what’s out of the closet already: From the NYT: Associates of Bush Aide Say He Helped Win Contract By RICHARD L. BERKE WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 — Karl Rove, President Bush’s top political adviser, recommended the Republican strategist Ralph Reed to the Enron Corporation for a lucrative consulting contract as Mr. Bush was weighing whether to run for president, close associates of Mr. Rove say. One question. How is this illegal? Please provide specifics. Dave Funny…..all these lame attempts to link the Republicans with the fall of Enron.  But now we have Dick Morris, a former Clinton consultant and confidant, saying we should actually be looking at the Dems and the Clinton regime dealings with Enron: Okay, you’ve proven yourself to be a real idiot when it comes to politics. Did you kiss the T.V. when Bush was on? What’s idiotic about it? Are you so blind and naive as to believe that this supposed "corruption" started the minute Bush took office? It doesn’t take a huge leap of faith to believe that this kind of "stuff" has been going on for far longer than that. If Bush is guilty of "something" (Which has yet to even be identified), then it’s an easy bet that his predecessors are just as guilty. It’s called American politics. Dave

And since he is sitting in The Chair, he ought to take the usual heat for it, and if it turns out he’s really dirty, well, even better. — Harry Krause – - No issue can be negotiated unless you first have the clout to compel negotiation. – Saul Alinsky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why don’t you educate us as to where any of your writing has actually been published? It is amazing that someone who professes a "professional writer" yet does not appear to have any articles published under his name. Ah, but I do. You’re simply too stupid to find them. Most of what I have written–in fact, most of what is written, is not on the web. Were you the only dimwit in your family?

Any decent public library. — Harry Krause – - Black people, brown people, they’re all part of the union. If you don’t like it, then get out, but we’re not going to change it. – Cesar Chavez

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The investigation has just begun and look what’s out of the closet  already:  From the NYT: Associates of Bush Aide Say He Helped Win Contract By RICHARD L. BERKE WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 — Karl Rove, President Bush’s top political  adviser, recommended the Republican strategist Ralph Reed to the Enron Corporation for a lucrative consulting contract as Mr. Bush was weighing whether to run for president, close associates of Mr. Rove say. One question. How is this illegal? Please provide specifics. Dave Funny…..all these lame attempts to link the Republicans with the fall of Enron.  But now we have Dick Morris, a former Clinton consultant and confidant, saying we should actually be looking at the Dems and the Clinton regime dealings with Enron: Okay, you’ve proven yourself to be a real idiot when it comes to politics. Did you kiss the T.V. when Bush was on?

What’s idiotic about it? Are you so blind and naive as to believe that this supposed "corruption" started the minute Bush took office? It doesn’t take a huge leap of faith to believe that this kind of "stuff" has been going on for far longer than that. If Bush is guilty of "something" (Which has yet to even be identified), then it’s an easy bet that his predecessors are just as guilty. It’s called American politics. Dave

Response:

And since he is sitting in The Chair, he ought to take the usual heat for it, and if it turns out he’s really dirty, well, even better. Harry Krause – -

I see you are now setting the stage knowing nothing will come from the Enron investigation, at least nothing that Bush or Cheney did wrong. Before it was claims of criminal activity, then it was serious wrong doings, now it is being "dirty", "real dirty".  Pretty soon it will be fault by association (remember this) as you alluded to also. You grasp at straws, fight windmills and see the sky falling at every turn. You are unbelievable Harry.

Response:

How come this statement was not given when all the investigations into Clinton / Gore and all the Chicom fund raising? Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The investigation has just begun and look what’s out of the closet already: From the NYT: Associates of Bush Aide Say He Helped Win Contract By RICHARD L. BERKE WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 — Karl Rove, President Bush’s top political adviser, recommended the Republican strategist Ralph Reed to the Enron Corporation for a lucrative consulting contract as Mr. Bush was weighing whether to run for president, close associates of Mr. Rove say. One question. How is this illegal? Please provide specifics. Dave Funny…..all these lame attempts to link the Republicans with the fall of Enron.  But now we have Dick Morris, a former Clinton consultant and confidant, saying we should actually be looking at the Dems and the Clinton regime dealings with Enron: Okay, you’ve proven yourself to be a real idiot when it comes to politics. Did you kiss the T.V. when Bush was on? What’s idiotic about it? Are you so blind and naive as to believe that this supposed "corruption" started the minute Bush took office? It doesn’t take a huge leap of faith to believe that this kind of "stuff" has been going on for far longer than that. If Bush is guilty of "something" (Which has yet to even be identified), then it’s an easy bet that his predecessors are just as guilty. It’s called American politics. Dave And since he is sitting in The Chair, he ought to take the usual heat for it, and if it turns out he’s really dirty, well, even better. — Harry Krause – - No issue can be negotiated unless you first have the clout to compel negotiation. – Saul Alinsky

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The investigation has just begun and look what’s out of the closet already:  From the NYT: Associates of Bush Aide Say He Helped Win Contract By RICHARD L. BERKE WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 — Karl Rove, President Bush’s top political adviser, recommended the Republican strategist Ralph Reed to the Enron Corporation for a lucrative consulting contract as Mr. Bush was weighing whether to run for president, close associates of Mr. Rove say. One question. How is this illegal? Please provide specifics. Dave

Funny…..all these lame attempts to link the Republicans with the fall of Enron.  But now we have Dick Morris, a former Clinton consultant and confidant, saying we should actually be looking at the Dems and the Clinton regime dealings with Enron: New York Post By Dick Morris TOP DEM OPENED THE DOOR January 29, 2002 — DEMOCRATS seeking to blame President Bush and the GOP for the Enron scandal need to look more closely at their own house – especially at the work done by the former Democratic National chairman, Sen. Christopher J. Dodd. While many candidates of both parties have received campaign contributions from Enron and its "independent auditor" Arthur Andersen, very few have passionately fought their cause in Washington as diligently as Chris Dodd. It was on account of Dodd’s tireless efforts that Arthur Andersen was able to act as both "independent auditor" and management consultant to Enron for $100 million a year. That role – so fraught with conflict of interest that it makes a joke of the concept of outside auditors protecting shareholders – has been identified as one of the major causes of the debacle. In 1995, it was Dodd who rammed through legislation, overriding President Clinton’s veto, to protect firms like Andersen from lawsuits in cases just like Enron. The Dodd bill limited liability for lawyers and accountants for "aiding and abetting" corporate fraud by their clients, making them liable only for their "proportionate" share of the blame, rather than for the entire fraud. So, if an accounting firm kept secret the true picture of a corporation’s finances, it would only be liable for part of the total fraud on the investors. For shareholders, this law is awful – the fraudulent company has usually lost nearly all its value before the shareholder learns about it, so there’s nothing left. For the accounting firm, though, it’s great – the shareholders can’t pin the total losses on you. And from Andersen’s point of view, it was really wonderful, because they were already facing thousands of lawsuits for their role in securities fraud. A grateful accounting industry showed its appreciation to Sen. Dodd by contributing $345,903 to his campaign between 1993 and 1997. Every major accounting firm pitched in – Deloitte & Touche, Ernst & Young, Coopers & Lybrand, Peat Marwick, Price Waterhouse. (Dodd has received more money from Arthur Andersen than any other Democrat – $54,843.) From ‘93 to ‘97, Dodd also received $523,551 from the securities industry, which was thrilled with other provisions of the ‘95 law that limited liability from securities lawsuits, notably for firms that failed to live up to their predictions about future earnings. Consumer groups had opposed the legislation – the U.S. Public Interest Research Group labeled it "The Crooks and Swindlers Protection Act." But Dodd’s services to Andersen didn’t stop there. Every analysis so far of the Enron scandal lays much of the blame on the conflict of interest that Andersen faced in auditing and consulting for Enron at the same time. Auditors must be independent to assure that companies do not report misleading financial data to stockholders. Once Andersen was getting up to $100 million a year in consulting fees from Enron, does anyone really believe that they would have blown the whistle on the firm’s shady books? But when the SEC tried to bar this practice, so ridden with conflict of interest, it was Chris Dodd, along with Rep. Billy Tauzin (now R-La., though a Democrat until August 1995), who according to the Associated Press "brokered a deal" to stop the SEC action. As a result of Dodd’s intervention, the SEC agreed not to issue a ban on the practice of auditing and consulting for the same client. Such practices have led to what Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) called "the kind of hide-the-debt shell game that took place at Enron." In an ultimate act of hypocrisy, Dodd has now actually introduced legislation to ban accounting firms from doing consulting for companies it audits – precisely the same policy he killed when the SEC was considering it. Now that this issue is in the public eye, Dodd is pretending to be an advocate for the shareholders. But the Enron workers who lost their pensions and the Enron shareholders who lost their portfolios know it is too late for them. And Arthur Andersen knows it makes no difference to them now.

Response:

Why don’t you educate us as to where any of your writing has actually been published?

Harry puts up sticky notes on the bulletin boards at the local Teamsters office and claims that he’s *published*.

Response:

Why don’t you educate us as to where any of your writing has actually been published?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is amazing that someone who professes a "professional writer" yet does not appear to have any articles published under his name. Ah, but I do. You’re simply too stupid to find them. Most of what I have written–in fact, most of what is written, is not on the web. Were you the only dimwit in your family? — Harry Krause – - They don’t suffer; they can’t even speak English. – Republican lawyer George Baer on starving miners

Response:

It is amazing that someone who professes a "professional writer" yet does not appear to have any articles published under his name.  

Ah, but I do. You’re simply too stupid to find them. Most of what I have written–in fact, most of what is written, is not on the web. Were you the only dimwit in your family? — Harry Krause – - They don’t suffer; they can’t even speak English. – Republican lawyer George Baer on starving miners

Response:

No, but I did get a few laughs. The Doof mispronounced at least 17 different words, including nuclear and Hamas.

And he’s still the President of the U.S. of A. and you are an old broken down union hack and it really pisses you off. Bert

Response:

It is amazing that someone who professes a "professional writer" yet does not appear to have any articles published under his name.   This same individual professes to be very intelligent, yet spends his life arguing politics in a boating forum.  He has never changed anyone’s opinion over to his opinion, but he has managed to convert make many who agreed with his philosophy to the dark side.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, but I did get a few laughs. The Doof mispronounced at least 17 different words, including nuclear and Hamas. And he’s still the President of the U.S. of A. and you are an old broken down union hack and it really pisses you off. Bert

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The investigation has just begun and look what’s out of the closet already: From the NYT: Associates of Bush Aide Say He Helped Win Contract By RICHARD L. BERKE WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 — Karl Rove, President Bush’s top political adviser, recommended the Republican strategist Ralph Reed to the Enron Corporation for a lucrative consulting contract as Mr. Bush was weighing whether to run for president, close associates of Mr. Rove say. One question. How is this illegal? Please provide specifics. Dave Funny…..all these lame attempts to link the Republicans with the fall of Enron.  But now we have Dick Morris, a former Clinton consultant and confidant, saying we should actually be looking at the Dems and the Clinton regime dealings with Enron: Okay, you’ve proven yourself to be a real idiot when it comes to politics. Did you kiss the T.V. when Bush was on?

No, but I did get a few laughs. The Doof mispronounced at least 17 different words, including nuclear and Hamas. — Harry Krause – - Keep your sermons; give us your proxies. – slogan in Kodak unionization drive

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The investigation has just begun and look what’s out of the closet  already:  From the NYT: Associates of Bush Aide Say He Helped Win Contract By RICHARD L. BERKE WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 — Karl Rove, President Bush’s top political  adviser, recommended the Republican strategist Ralph Reed to the Enron Corporation for a lucrative consulting contract as Mr. Bush was weighing whether to run for president, close associates of Mr. Rove say. One question. How is this illegal? Please provide specifics. Dave Funny…..all these lame attempts to link the Republicans with the fall of Enron.  But now we have Dick Morris, a former Clinton consultant and confidant, saying we should actually be looking at the Dems and the Clinton regime dealings with Enron:

Okay, you’ve proven yourself to be a real idiot when it comes to politics. Did you kiss the T.V. when Bush was on?

Response:

Question:

Yes, you can convert Quickbooks to Peachtree.  Since Quickbooks seems to only allow list processing it probably isn’t up to the quality standards of other accounting packages in this regard.  Why not stay with Peachtree.  It is a much better program. Bill Couture

Response:

Yes, you can convert Quickbooks to Peachtree.  Since Quickbooks seems to only allow list processing it probably isn’t up to the quality standards of other accounting packages in this regard.  Why not stay with Peachtree.  It is a much better program. Bill Couture

QB has long allowed transaction imports. Even PT sister companies, ACT and Timeslips, are using the new QBXML exchange.      Mike Block – Tax Cut CPA      #1 QuickBooks Top Tester Lowest QB Price, Free 462p QB book, error codes, shortcuts, 120 Add-ons  http://blocktax.com/ 954-566-7540

Response:

I’m used to open programs like Cougar Mountain, ACCPAC Pro and others. Peachtree with DDE comes close and now  with Crystal Reports is open on the output side.  Frankly, I figure any accounting package with closed tables is junk. Bill Couture

Response:

Does anyone know a way to convert a Peachtree file to QuickBooks? I have a client that is using Peachtree in a system which is way too complicated for their simple business. I have another client who was way too complicated for a simple QuickBooks program. Someone must have created a way to convert one file type to another.  I think I can convert QuickBooks to Peachtree, but I want to convert Peachtree to QuickBooks.  Does anyone know how to do this conversion?  Please?

Response:

Hi again! Perhaps this time I can help you!  I’m not an expert but I found this from the QuickbooksPro online help: If you’ve been using another financial software product, and you’d like to import information from that product into QuickBooks, you can do so if the product allows you to export to a spreadsheet or text file. You can import lists that correspond to QuickBooks lists, budgets, and individual transactions. Tip: The easiest way to see and understand the format QuickBooks needs to import data is to export some of your QuickBooks lists and view the resulting file in a spreadsheet. If you don’t already have a QuickBooks company, you can export lists from the sample data (SAMPLE.QBW). 1 Open the spreadsheet that contains the data. 2 Move the contents of all the cells in your spreadsheet one column to the right so that the first column is blank. 3 Move the contents of all the cells down by one row so that the first row is blank. 4 Check the structure of the spreadsheet. If it contains more than one type of listor a mixture of lists, budgets, and transactionsmake sure that each type of information has its own block in the spreadsheet. The blocks should follow each other vertically. Insert a blank row of cells to separate the blocks. For example, it you have a list of customers and a list of vendors, all the customer data should be in one block and all the vendor information should be in another block. 5 In the first cell in the blank row above each block of information, enter one of the keywords shown in this table. Be sure to include the exclamation point (!). Type this text. . . If the block contains !ACCNT Details about your chart of accounts. !CUST A customer address or phone list. !VEND A vendor address or phone list. !EMP A list of employees. !OTHERNAME A list of names you’d like to add to QuickBooks Other Name list. !BUD Budget details. !CLASS A list of general classifications you’d like to add to QuickBooks Class list. !CTYPE A list of customer classifications you’d like to add to QuickBooks Customer Type list. !INVITEM Details about the line items you use on sales and purchase forms. !INVMEMO Messages you’d like to add to QuickBooks Customer Message list. !PAYMETH A list of payment methods you’d like to add to QuickBooks Payment Method list. !SHIPMETH A list of shipping methods you’d like to add to QuickBooks Ship Via list. !TERMS A list of payment terms you’d like to add to QuickBooks Terms list. !TIMEACT Details about activities you timed with the QuickBooks Pro Timer. Works with !TIMERHDR. !TIMERHDR QuickBooks Pro Timer data. !TODO A list of upcoming "to do" tasks you want QuickBooks to remind you about. !TRNS Transactions. !VTYPE A list of vendor classifications you’d like to add to QuickBooks Vendor Type list. For example, if the spreadsheet contains a list of customers and then a list of vendors, the structure of the spreadsheet would be as follows: !CUST [List of customers] !VEND [List of vendors] 6 Fill in the remaining cells of the first column with the keyword you entered in the first row for each informational block. This time, omit the exclamation point. In our example, the first column would look like this: !CUST CUST CUST [etc.] !VEND VEND VEND [etc.] 7 Complete the first row for each list by adding the headings that QuickBooks expects to find for that type of information. To see a list of the headings you can use, click the type of information you are importing: Chart of accounts  Payroll Item list Budgets  Ship Via list Class list  Terms list Customer Type list  To Do list Customer:Job list  Vendor list Employee list  Vendor Type list Item list  Transactions Customer Message list  Distribution lines in transactions Other Names list  Activities timed with the QuickBooks Pro Timer Payment Method list For example, the first row for a list of vendor names, addresses, and phone numbers would look like this: !VEND NAME ADDR1 ADDR2 ADDR3 ADDR4 ADDR5 PHONE1 PHONE2 8 Make sure that the content of the columns in each block matches the headings you just added: If you have a vendor’s entire address in one column, you need to break it up so that the first line of the address appears under the ADDR1 column, the second line under the ADDR2 column, and so forth.  You may have some columns that are filled with information, but you could find no heading that matched the information. In this case, consider moving the material in those columns to the NOTES column. 9 Save the spreadsheet as a text file. (The columns must be separated by tabs or commas.) Add an .IIF extension to the filename. 10 Start QuickBooks. From the File menu, choose Utilities. Then choose Import and enter the name and path of the file you just created. Click OK. What happens QuickBooks adds the data to your company file, updating any lists as needed. For example, if you have imported a list of vendors, QuickBooks adds the new vendor names to your Vendor list.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know a way to convert a Peachtree file to QuickBooks? I have a client that is using Peachtree in a system which is way too complicated for their simple business. I have another client who was way too complicated for a simple QuickBooks program. Someone must have created a way to convert one file type to another.  I think I can convert QuickBooks to Peachtree, but I want to convert Peachtree to QuickBooks.  Does anyone know how to do this conversion?  Please?

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently acquired a copy of the WSCPA proposed uniform certified public accountants practice act of 2001.  It is the expectation of the WSCPA that this proposal is  TO BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON. I have read it through once, and find certain provisions to be a bit chilling. I read it.  It sounded pretty decent to me, I can only hope CA doesn’t decide to get creative when we adopt UAA and go beyond what WA is proposing. Based on past experience, I think the mandatory peer review for attest is a good idea.

My problem is not with peer review per se, but with this proposals lack of definition, oversight, and appeals.  Not even the board of accountancy can see the details of the process. 11 (8) (c) Require the peer reviews to be conducted in a confidential manner and any documents generated or disclosed during the peer review to be maintained in a manner designed to preserve confidentiality, and that neither the board nor any third party, other than the oversight body, shall have access to documents furnished or generated in the course of the peer review. Peer review documents shall not be subject to public disclosure under chapter 42.17 RCW. I leaving for my father’s funeral in North Carolina in about an hour.  I’ll be back Saturday late.  I won’t be able to respond further until Sunday. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

The powers of the state are used to support reporting conventions which are really nothing but a commercial franchise, by AICPA and its members.

That appears to be the intent, but it isn’t law yet. Thanks for the post. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

I recently acquired a copy of the WSCPA proposed uniform certified public accountants practice act of 2001.  It is the expectation of the WSCPA that this proposal is  TO BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON. I have read it through once, and find certain provisions to be a bit chilling.  

I read it.  It sounded pretty decent to me, I can only hope CA doesn’t decide to get creative when we adopt UAA and go beyond what WA is proposing. Based on past experience, I think the mandatory peer review for attest is a good idea.

Response:

I recently acquired a copy of the WSCPA proposed uniform certified public accountants practice act of 2001.  It is the expectation of the WSCPA that this proposal is  TO BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON. I have read it through once, and find certain provisions to be a bit chilling.  I am particularly concerned regarding the power and secrecy granted to "peer review", and to certain sweeping powers granted to the board.  As I read this document, becoming a CPA in the State of Washington would pretty much require the surrender of certain civil rights. I am deliberately no including any specific references in this post in the hope that some of you will actually read and comment on the document at large.  I will have specific comments in a later post. I have posted the entire document on my web site.  The url is: http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/uaa.htm — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

Thanks Jim,    NEW SECTION. Sec. 2. It is the policy of this state, and the purpose of    this chapter, to promote the reliability of information that is used for    guidance in financial transactions or for accounting for or assessing    the financial status or performance of commercial, noncommercial, and    governmental enterprises. The public interest requires that persons    professing special competence in accountancy or offering assurance as to    the reliability or fairness of the presentation of information shall    have demonstrated their qualifications to do so… Barf.   Probably written by a bunch of CPAs. Isn’t that ridiculous, that a few underpaid bureaucrats in Olympia,WA should take up such a huge intellectual and social challenge? Obviously they have no means to achieve such lofty goals other than to delegate the whole process to professional bodies like AICPA, or unelected bodies like NASBA, NCCUSL, etc.   Is this democracy?  No.  It is state legislatures getting sold a bill of goods, legislating into law the rules crafted by elites in the accounting profession for their own enrichment, and rules churned by entrenched interests within those unelected rulemaking bodies for no other reason but to perpetuate their own salaries and hegemony over rulemaking. If the State of Washington has any authentic, indigenous concerns about the state of accounting services in their state, they should debate those reporting problems directly instead of bundling up the entire problem and delegating it to the private and unelected bodies. Look at one of the results in the laws;    (6)(a) Persons or firms who do not hold certificates or permits shall    not use language in any statement relating to the financial affairs of a    person or entity which is conventionally used by certificate or permit    holders in reports on financial statements.    (b) A person or firm not holding a valid certificate or permit issued    under section 10 or 11 of this act shall not assume or use any title or    designation that includes the words "accountant," "auditor," or    "accounting" in connection with any other language, including the    language of a report, that implies that the person or firm holds a    certificate or permit or has special competence as an accountant or    auditor    10) Nothing in this chapter prohibits any person…from offering or    rendering to the public bookkeeping, accounting, or tax services,    the devising and installing of financial information systems    …as long as …. do not issue any    written statement which expresses assurance on financial statements    which have been reviewed. Isn’t that ridiculous?  Only the AICPA and NASBA can make up the CPA exams, and only the FASB and AICPA can define all of the terms of GAAP, and they can write them anyway they want, however inappropriately for small business, and yet, *nobody else* can even use the words "accountant" or "presents fairly", or even say "These statements are cool"!! The powers of the state are used to support reporting conventions which are really nothing but a commercial franchise, by AICPA and its members. Take the metadata pledge, posted today here on alt.accounting.   Let’s get completely out of this infantile business of extracting super-high fees from small business for "accounting services."   * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/altcpa.htm * XML accounting, web ledgers, BSPs, ASPs, whatever it takes

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Question:

What accounting program do the members of this NG recommend for a $15MM manufacturing facility with two divisions and around 100 employees.  I would like to keep it as simple and straight forward as possible while maintaining some reporting flexibility.  Thanks for the help. Steven Lamm

Response:

You make like to look at Account! from Parallel – the spreadsheet accounting system. Account! is an unique software product that links your spreadsheet directly to a built-in general ledger.  With account you can post journals and retrieve data directly from your spreadsheet.   Account! comes with spreadsheet templates for small business accounting and more templates are planned to download free. Account! could give you the reporting flexibility you need , perhaps supplemented by a standard accounting package that could process your volumes. Regards Nick Saville www.parallelsoft.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What accounting program do the members of this NG recommend for a $15MM manufacturing facility with two divisions and around 100 employees.  I would like to keep it as simple and straight forward as possible while maintaining some reporting flexibility.  Thanks for the help. Steven Lamm

Response:

What percentage of stock to custom work does this plant output? That will differ the opinion for your question. I like the Datamax products.  They have 3 levels so you can outgrow one and step into it’s bigger brother.  PC LAN, Client Server, Mainframe versions. They factor a great deal of training into the price of the product something that many integrators short change on, IMHO. I personally use SBT & TIW.  It’s ok and cheap.  SBT has a arrangement with Lahey for MFG. today so if you go to SBT.com you’ll see lots of Lahey press. There are good manufacturing apps that most on this NG are unaware of.  It’s for 2 reasons, they don’t sell it, and they don’t do MFG. accounting.  This is not a slam on them, they just don’t have that client base. There is a great rag for Mfg. Software that does a top 100 every year.  You should be able to find a reference to it via a search engine. Good Luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What accounting program do the members of this NG recommend for a $15MM manufacturing facility with two divisions and around 100 employees.  I would like to keep it as simple and straight forward as possible while maintaining some reporting flexibility.  Thanks for the help. Steven Lamm

Response:

Depends on the type of manufacturing the company does.  Build to order or build to stock. For certain I would be looking at Client/Server solutions of which there are many.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What accounting program do the members of this NG recommend for a $15MM manufacturing facility with two divisions and around 100 employees.  I would like to keep it as simple and straight forward as possible while maintaining some reporting flexibility.  Thanks for the help. Steven Lamm

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Sorry to butt in, but I have the same question.  My employer is smaller – 3 million / 25 employees that is expecting moderate growth over the next five years.  We currently use Peachtree, but there have been numerous crashes during assembly building (which corrupt the files and force a restore)and fairly unhelpful support.  We manufacture to order, although most items are repeats.  Any difference between the basic 500 or so items is usually related to price, description, or slight change in the bill of materials. There are four users on W95 peer to peer network.  I don’t think that I could get anything like MAS90 or Solomon through the door, but have been looking at BW and Red Wing.  Can someone offer some advice or opinions on these and other packages?  I appreciate your help. Chad

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Mr. Lamm; I would be happy to make some recommendations.   Please provide a few more details. Are you looking for MRP functions such as Inventory Control, Bill of Materials, Job Cost, … ? Roughly how many workstations would be on the system?  Can you offer a ballpark price range? If you have an existing system, what are the major shortcomings? Respectfully,  - Carl Dick www.cpaccess.com 949-261-2694 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What accounting program do the members of this NG recommend for a $15MM manufacturing facility with two divisions and around 100 employees.  I would like to keep it as simple and straight forward as possible while maintaining some reporting flexibility.  Thanks for the help. Steven Lamm

Response:

Chad,     We are resellers of Red Wing and have found it quite workable in a situation like you have. We have also used the Project (Job) Cost module for tracking on custom build (rebuild) machinery for a client. See web page     Also, see the pricing for Red Wing off the Accounting solutions page. Luck,  Dana To reply, please remove NOSPAM from the address Visit our web site at http://www.tailored-computing.com

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If your two options are Businessworks or Red Wing, go with Red Wing. Red Wing will be the most flexible due to is architecture and if it has the features you need and it’s cost structure fits, it can be a good solution for a small organization. Keep in mind the down side to all systems that use a file based database. (Business Works uses something non-standard, Red Wing I belive uses Access) File base systems can easily become corrupted due to inconsitances at any workstation accessing the software.  If you have 25 uers using it and one of those users has their computer reboot on them, it’s possible that either data has been damaged or indexes are no longer correct.  This typically requires a minimum reindex and optimization, and as you have found can mean restore from backup.  Xbase (FoxPro, Visual FoxPro, Dbase) and Access databases are fairly robust, and except for issues with damaged media or faulty file servers, rarely is existing data lost.  Typically they just either loose the data you were just entering, or an index is damaged require a reindex of the tables.  Programs like Peachtree that use proprietary databases often are using C type structures that are stored on disks.  These rely on pointers and when corrupted they really are a mess to clean up.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to butt in, but I have the same question.  My employer is smaller – 3 million / 25 employees that is expecting moderate growth over the next five years.  We currently use Peachtree, but there have been numerous crashes during assembly building (which corrupt the files and force a restore)and fairly unhelpful support.  We manufacture to order, although most items are repeats.  Any difference between the basic 500 or so items is usually related to price, description, or slight change in the bill of materials. There are four users on W95 peer to peer network.  I don’t think that I could get anything like MAS90 or Solomon through the door, but have been looking at BW and Red Wing.  Can someone offer some advice or opinions on these and other packages?  I appreciate your help. Chad

Response:

You make like to look at Account! from Parallel – the spreadsheet accounting system. Account! is an unique software product that links your spreadsheet directly to a built-in general ledger.  With account you can post journals and retrieve data directly from your spreadsheet  [....]

Nick — Interesting product!  What database is running under it?  Jet?  MSDE? –Todd

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Another reason not to use them as Btreive is being phased out by the developer due to many things, one of which is ongoing issues with data consistancy that has been difficult to resolve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peachtree and BW both use Betrieve database format. If your two options are Businessworks or Red Wing, go with Red Wing. Red Wing will be the most flexible due to is architecture and if it has … a reindex of the tables.  Programs like Peachtree that use proprietary databases often are using C type structures that are stored on disks. These rely on pointers and when corrupted they really are a mess to clean up.

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Question:

I will be in the same situation come January, for more then one client.  We are not required to use mag media.  Quickbooks can print your W-2s but they will only print two copies per page, so you have to tear all the forms apart and put them together with staples, unlike Peachtree, which prints "four-up" forms with all of the employee’s copies on the same piece of paper. What I would give for a solution for this problem…… Debbie

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in alt.accounting: I will be in the same situation come January, for more then one client.  We are not required to use mag media.  Quickbooks can print your W-2s but they will only print two copies per page, so you have to tear all the forms apart and put them together with staples, unlike Peachtree, which prints "four-up" forms with all of the employee’s copies on the same piece of paper. What I would give for a solution for this problem…… Debbie

See my web site for the largest list of QuickBooks add-ons on the web, with web site and email addresses and many prices. Among the 12 payroll add-ons is Magtax. "With MAGTAX you can file magnetic media from QuickBooks, giving it the ability to handle a 250 plus employee payroll." If I gave you their web site address you might not go to my site and see all the other add-ons that await you. However, I will say it is $75 and you may qualify as a beta tester. Note: We have not used this product, which claims to be 10 years old. Note #2: Why not avoid this & many other problems, while saving money, with the QB on-line payroll service?   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.              World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/    Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

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Ah come on Mike.  You can give ‘em my address..<g But do check out Mike’s site as well…..! http://www.business-plaza.com/magtax/ — Paul MacFarlane American Riviera Software Corporation http://www.business-plaza.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in alt.accounting: I will be in the same situation come January, for more then one client. We are not required to use mag media.  Quickbooks can print your W-2s but they will only print two copies per page, so you have to tear all the forms apart and put them together with staples, unlike Peachtree, which prints "four-up" forms with all of the employee’s copies on the same piece of paper. What I would give for a solution for this problem…… Debbie See my web site for the largest list of QuickBooks add-ons on the web, with web site and email addresses and many prices. Among the 12 payroll add-ons is Magtax. "With MAGTAX you can file magnetic media from QuickBooks, giving it the ability to handle a 250 plus employee payroll." If I gave you their web site address you might not go to my site and see all the other add-ons that await you. However, I will say it is $75 and you may qualify as a beta tester. Note: We have not used this product, which claims to be 10 years old. Note #2: Why not avoid this & many other problems, while saving money, with the QB on-line payroll service?   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/    Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

Response:

Question:

I have two things to say to Phil, about Confused’s response: Watch Clint Eastwood’s "The Unforgiven". In the movie’s final scene, Clint has a gun to the Sheriff (Gene Hackman) who has killed CLint’s friend (morgan Freedman).  Hackman says "I’m the good guy… I don’t deserve this" Clint’s response just before pulling the trigger: "Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it". My last girlfriend, in breaking up with me, told me I "deserved better".  I told her deserve’s got nothing to do with it.  Clint’s right: in life, people do NOT get what they deserve; you can be a great person, and "deserve" this and that (friends, a lover, etc) and NEVER get them.  And you can be a total bastard and get it all, even though you don’t "deserve" it.   It’s not about what you deserve, it’s about what you are able to get. And the 2nd thing: Don’t think that having money, a great job or degree, etc., means much at all. Having the car, the house, the "Dr." before your name, don’t do much for getting friends or a lover. Those things only enhance (slightly) what you could obtain without them.  If you have no social skills, are ugly, fat, crippled, etc., those things won’t do much to help you.  

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Thu, 13 May 1999 00:14:54    alt.support.loneliness         Thread   13 of  129 Lines 27                   Re: Why???????????????           Respno   1 of   1 jslu…@aol.com                               Jslueth at AOL http://www.aol.com <<… Clint’s right: in life, people do NOT get what they deserve; you can be a great person, and "deserve" this and that (friends, a lover, etc) and NEVER get them.>> That’s me. I always (in adult life anyway) treated people in a fair manner, trying to help people, trying to better the world, trying to communicate with people so I can better figure out what they want so I can better target my help, but nobody ever wants to help me in return. I’m a good person who ought to get a good life, but I get only shit and crap and rejection and loneliness and libel. (I expect at least five followups to this article will contain libel against me!!) <<It’s not about what you deserve, it’s about what you are able to get.>> I agree. I’ve never been able to get my basic emotional needs satisfied. Now (TTJ) I’ve learned how to approach strangers and satify my need for sociallzation/conversation, but I still don’t know how to satisfy my need for affection, and for friendship (except by e-mail). <<If you have … are ugly, …, crippled, … those things won’t do much to help you.>> That’s me, an ugly cripple. The movie to watch is "The Moulon Rouge". Zsa Zsa Gabor told me:  "No woman will ever love you. You are a hopeless cripple." She was almost totally correct, until A.L. fell in love with me.

Response:

Thanks for reposting the original post Jae. I agtree that not having goodbyes causes a feeling of incompleteness.  I have had a few goodbyes,  some said by the guy and some by me.  I have had the thankful luck of always feeling like i was ‘done’ knowing that person except for the first big (ultimately stupid) ‘love’.  It was not in fact real love, it was deranged infatuation.  The other 3 sort of serious boyfriends and 3 brief interludes were much less traumatic.. Still difficult but not as devastating.         It is especially difficult if the other person does not communicate.  So many questions and so few answers.       You sound like a really terrific person and I cannot imagine anyone not wanting to know you.  So give yourself a little time.       Encouraging Hugs     Ellisande

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Ellisa…@webtv.net wrote: > Thanks for reposting the original post Jae. > I agtree that not having goodbyes causes a feeling of incompleteness.  I > have had a few goodbyes,  some said by the guy and some by me.  I have > had the thankful luck of always feeling like i was ‘done’ knowing that > person except for the first big (ultimately stupid) ‘love’.  It was not > in fact real love, it was deranged infatuation.  The other 3 sort of > serious boyfriends and 3 brief interludes were much less traumatic.. > Still difficult but not as devastating. >       It is especially difficult if the other person does not > communicate.  So many questions and so few answers. >       You sound like a really terrific person and I cannot imagine > anyone not wanting to know you.  So give yourself a little time. >     Encouraging Hugs >     Ellisande

–             "People are lonely because……                    They build walls instead of bridges."                            Joseph Fort Newton

Response:

Philip Tucker wrote: > Thank you for your advice.  I understand completely what you mean, and yes I do > think that this does happen.  I don’t try to smother people.  I don’t mean to lay it > on too thick.  I’m not possessive and I don’t feel the need to intrude on someones > life, its just….

    Thank you, Philip, for helping me understand the other side of the coin a bit.  I never quite looked at it from that angle before.     I do think broken relationships are more difficult to handle when you don’t have the "goodbye’s", the closure you spoke of.  I’m sorry.  I do wish I had words that would make things easier for you.  Jae —             "People are lonely because……                    They build walls instead of bridges."                            Joseph Fort Newton

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I had to cancel a message.  I’m sorry if you’re getting two, but I thought I hit spelling and I actually hit send instead.  Anyway, what I was saying before I accedentally sent it was that I don’t think hypocrasy should be a reason for discrimination between us and them.  I understand what you are saying completely (and I agree with it), but its like…when you start drawing lines between two groups of people you’re really just making more distance between them.  It makes it harder to fill in the gaps later.  Athough its really true, it probably best to just pretend it isn’t and treat everyone like you’ve never been hurt before.  I do thank you for your advice though, and I think you have a lot of wisdom for having only a handful of experiences.  I hope that we both make it out okay.  Take care and have a great day.  Thanks and try to keep smiling. -Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -le…@mindspring.spamfuscation.com wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 1999 06:02:34 -0400, Philip Tucker <gator…@ufl.edu> wrote: > >Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer > >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the > >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something > >more special to offer than loyalty.  People want something more…a > >reason to pick you over someone else.  Hey, Martha (pertains only to my > Oh yes.  And it’s so annoying, too, when people moan about how disloyal > people are, and here mr. loyalty is, who those people couldn’t care less > about. > The ordinary person is like this:  they come up with something they think > they want, and proclaim that to the world, but they lie every time.  The > lonely person is like this: they come up with something they think they > want, and proclaim that to the world, but because they’re right everyone > ignores them. > And BTW I hate it every time I catch myself using they for a singular > gender neutral pronoun.  I feel so dirty. > >Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer > >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the > >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something > >more special to offer than loyalty. > Hurt only goes away with time.  It only goes away with time away from > additional pain.  That is, it only goes away with alone-ness and locked > doors.  It also doesn’t care if you want it to or not, it just fades on its > own. > Every time you open that door, you’re asking for pain–this is the human > desire for pain (that is, companionship)–and you should be prepared for > it.  It’s not that the specific people you meet make you feel that way, > it’s not some bad karma that is coming down upon only you,  it’s just that > ALL people are like that.  A thick skin is not enough.  You need plate > armor. > I don’t know if it actually helps, being prepared, since I don’t have more > than a handful of experiences.  But it is the boy scout motto after all. > — > Listen to Grendel (ambient/signal music) at http://listen.to/grendel >   Note, my return address may be munged.  You make the call.  Though >   if you send mail from a spam friendly ISP, such as Earthlink or cw.net, >   your mail may be blacklisted.

Response:

Thank you very much for making me feel better.  I appreciate that you took the time to give some advice.  You’re a good person for doing that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lin wrote: > Philip Tucker wrote: > > Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?   (snipped with respect) > > I wish that I had something > > more special to offer than loyalty. > Philip You are a special person, you sound like you have a lot to offer. You > took the courage to write this letter. that is very special…by doing this > you showed your heart to us, strangers. You shared your feelings, in this > world that is special too.You ask yourself  questions, one can never grow > without doing that. > You see so many things you can offer!!!….the hurt will stay for a while, > just hang in. When you need someone to talk to, there will always be someone > here… > Hugs > Lin

Response:

Thank you for your help.  Your advice does make me feel much better.  You’re absolutely right.  I’m glad that you told me about your friend.  It makes me feel better that there are people out there that show compassion regardless of status and position.  Thank you very much!  :) You take care of yourself too…and have a great day. -Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Confused wrote: > Hi Philip, > Welcome.  Thanks for sharing this with us.  I really think you have to let > her go.  I know it is a lot easier to say than do; it may take several > months or even years but from what I’ve been able to gather is that you are > a sincere and caring individual who has a lot to offer.  This girl may have > a high IQ and be a genius but you know what . . . you deserve better. > If she was truly worthy of your attention, she would have taken that supreme > intellect and helped you improve your grades rather than minimize your > accomplishments — she would have accepted you for who are. > My greatest friend in the whole world, who passed away in her early 40s, > held a double PhD in mathematics and English.  She started out as my tutor > but I was too young to realize how special she was.  It was only after her > death have I realized all the gifts she imparted on me.  She was my greatest > friend, my mentor and I never even knew it.  Her IQ was well above mine, but > that didn’t stop her from taking me into her world and showing me how I > could make myself a better person.  (Thanks for reminding me of her, > Philip.) > The point is that supreme intelligence of this kind is only valuable if it > is in service of mankind — either at an individual or universal level. > Your "friend" has shown the capacity for neither. > Take care of yourself. > Confused

Response:

Thank you for your advice.  I understand completely what you mean, and yes I do think that this does happen.  I don’t try to smother people.  I don’t mean to lay it on too thick.  I’m not possessive and I don’t feel the need to intrude on someones life, its just…. When you’ve been so lonely for so long and you have the type of personality I do, and someone comes around telling you that you’re a good person and talks to you and acknowledges your existence…you want to do everything to show your appreciation. If you love helping people and you only have one person to help (the jinx of a one-friendship life), you tend to give your complete self to this person. The irony of this is ofcourse, it does scare people away.  Its ironic because if you had more than one friend you could distribute your kindness among a group of people instead of one and you’re more likey to keep them all.  But for the person who desperately needs a friend, the situation lends itself to keeping you lonely. Because giving your "all" to ONLY one person is sufficating and they will leave. Which brings you back to loneliness.  You don’t have much of a chance unless you really go all out and make a bunch of friends at once.  Which, as we all know in here, is really really really hard.  I hope that is understandable.  Its 4:00 in the morning and I’m really tired.  I can’t go to sleep.  All I can think about is how I’m never going to see this person again and I’m heart broken.  I didn’t even get a goodbye from her.  I don’t even have the cruel closure of a goodbye. Thanks for your help, again. -Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jae wrote: > Philip Tucker wrote: > > Most people have hang ups like that.  They want a certain type of person. > > All I have to offer are the things people say they want, but don’t want the > > responsibilty for keeping.  I don’t have the cars, the money, the fame, the > > brains, the athletic abilty.  That’s what I meant.  I don’t have a > > competitive advantage in friendship.  All I have is a desire to make people > > feel special.  I guess that comes across as being a brown-noser.  I dunno. > > I’m tired of playing the whole thing in my head.  Thanks again for your > > advice. >     Hi Philip.  While I was thinking about how to answer your original "Why" > post, Frans answered you and you posted this one, also.  Reading both your posts > and Frans answer to you, made me sort of pull away from the words I had running > round my head in answer to your first "Why".  <smile>    I sort of got thinking > that I wonder, if in your effort to be "supportive" and "loyal", etc., you might > not be coming across as being "suffocating".  Do you think that because you feel > you are lacking in some areas, that you "push too hard" in the areas you think > are positive ones for you?  Hard enough that someone could feel you cut off > their freedom to be themselves, maybe? >     Loyalty and the desire to make people feel special are good qualities, > Philip, but if you wrap someone too tightly with even good qualities, they will > tend to shy away from you.  A lot of people need "breathing space."  Jae > — >             "That’s what happens when you are angry with people….. >                        You make them a part of your lives." >                               Garrison Keillor

Response:

Hi Philip, Welcome.  Thanks for sharing this with us.  I really think you have to let her go.  I know it is a lot easier to say than do; it may take several months or even years but from what I’ve been able to gather is that you are a sincere and caring individual who has a lot to offer.  This girl may have a high IQ and be a genius but you know what . . . you deserve better. If she was truly worthy of your attention, she would have taken that supreme intellect and helped you improve your grades rather than minimize your accomplishments — she would have accepted you for who are. My greatest friend in the whole world, who passed away in her early 40s, held a double PhD in mathematics and English.  She started out as my tutor but I was too young to realize how special she was.  It was only after her death have I realized all the gifts she imparted on me.  She was my greatest friend, my mentor and I never even knew it.  Her IQ was well above mine, but that didn’t stop her from taking me into her world and showing me how I could make myself a better person.  (Thanks for reminding me of her, Philip.) The point is that supreme intelligence of this kind is only valuable if it is in service of mankind — either at an individual or universal level. Your "friend" has shown the capacity for neither. Take care of yourself. Confused

Response:

Confused wrote: > The point is that supreme intelligence of this kind is only valuable if it > is in service of mankind — either at an individual or universal level.

    A very powerful statement, darlin’!  Thank you for sharing your memories of your friend.   Hugs, Jae —             "People are lonely because……                    They build walls instead of bridges."                            Joseph Fort Newton

Response:

On Tue, 11 May 1999 23:18:22 GMT, maddo…@earthlink.net (Maddogg) wrote: >Hey Brad, >Sie – Gender-neutral pronoun equivalent to "She or He" >Hir –  Gender-neutral pronoun equivalent to "Him or Her" >        or possessive pronoun equivalent to "His or Her" >        (Alternate spelling:  "Zie" and "Zir")

[snip] >In article <7ha2ge$ms…@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, "Supertheta" <bshep…@vt.edu> wrote: >>"S/he" and "xe" are used for third person singular, sex neutral.  "Hxx" is >>used for him/her.

These are a hundred times worse.  If we’re not going to be correct (the ‘male’ terms as gender neutral), then at least ‘they’ fits the way people really talk.  Start saying sie and hxx and you only sound like a total idiot. — Listen to Grendel (ambient/signal music) at http://listen.to/grendel   Note, my return address may be munged.  You make the call.  Though   if you send mail from a spam friendly ISP, such as Earthlink or cw.net,   your mail may be blacklisted.

Response:

Hey, I never saw the original one to this. Muttering over server inconsistencies Ellisande

Response:

Hey Brad, I have also seen these used as gender-neutral pronouns… At least I have seen them used in NGs before… of course, as always… I could very well be wrong… (laugh)                                 warm hugs,                                 Michael Sie – Gender-neutral pronoun equivalent to "She or He" Hir –  Gender-neutral pronoun equivalent to "Him or Her"         or possessive pronoun equivalent to "His or Her"         (Alternate spelling:  "Zie" and "Zir") Maddogg Bytes http://home.earthlink.net/~maddogg1/ In article <7ha2ge$ms…@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, "Supertheta" <bshep…@vt.edu> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes ><le…@mindspring.spamfuscation.com> wrote in message >news:37398193.1770283@news.mindspring.com… >> And BTW I hate it every time I catch myself using they for a singular >> gender neutral pronoun.  I feel so dirty. >"S/he" and "xe" are used for third person singular, sex neutral.  "Hxx" is >used for him/her. >Brad

Response:

This is Philip’s original "Why" post, darlin’. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Philip Tucker wrote: > Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer > through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the > people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something > more special to offer than loyalty.  People want something more…a > reason to pick you over someone else.  Hey, Martha (pertains only to my > rant, an ex-friend who valued image over friendship)..I’m not a radio > jock, or a physicist, or a lawyer, or an accounting genius…I don’t get > 4.0’s or internships in New York.  I’m just a person.  Simple.  Why > couldn’t you have just seen that and accept me for the person I am.  Why > could you care less about my feelings and more about my lack of a > resume? Why did you have to be soooo shallow.  So indifferent to the > fact that I was giving you everything I could?  Why did I have to give > more than I had to keep you?  Its over now, and I can’t stop thinking > about the hurt. > Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer > through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the > people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something > more special to offer than loyalty.

–             "That’s what happens when you are angry with people…..                        You make them a part of your lives."                               Garrison Keillor

Response:

Philip Tucker wrote: > Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?   (snipped with respect) > I wish that I had something > more special to offer than loyalty.

Philip You are a special person, you sound like you have a lot to offer. You took the courage to write this letter. that is very special…by doing this you showed your heart to us, strangers. You shared your feelings, in this world that is special too.You ask yourself  questions, one can never grow without doing that. You see so many things you can offer!!!….the hurt will stay for a while, just hang in. When you need someone to talk to, there will always be someone here… Hugs Lin

Response:

Philip Tucker wrote: > Most people have hang ups like that.  They want a certain type of person. > All I have to offer are the things people say they want, but don’t want the > responsibilty for keeping.  I don’t have the cars, the money, the fame, the > brains, the athletic abilty.  That’s what I meant.  I don’t have a > competitive advantage in friendship.  All I have is a desire to make people > feel special.  I guess that comes across as being a brown-noser.  I dunno. > I’m tired of playing the whole thing in my head.  Thanks again for your > advice.

    Hi Philip.  While I was thinking about how to answer your original "Why" post, Frans answered you and you posted this one, also.  Reading both your posts and Frans answer to you, made me sort of pull away from the words I had running round my head in answer to your first "Why".  <smile>    I sort of got thinking that I wonder, if in your effort to be "supportive" and "loyal", etc., you might not be coming across as being "suffocating".  Do you think that because you feel you are lacking in some areas, that you "push too hard" in the areas you think are positive ones for you?  Hard enough that someone could feel you cut off their freedom to be themselves, maybe?     Loyalty and the desire to make people feel special are good qualities, Philip, but if you wrap someone too tightly with even good qualities, they will tend to shy away from you.  A lot of people need "breathing space."  Jae —             "That’s what happens when you are angry with people…..                        You make them a part of your lives."                               Garrison Keillor

Response:

Philip, I am not able to look into your mind, but from your writing I see a lot of reason. Apparently that lady wasn’t meant to be for you… Other are sweeter and less demanding, but… we have to bring offers to make them happy. I learned a little about depression, but can’t know what you feel. Still the advice is like I gave, make sure you like yourself, for who you are. Start believing in yourself (again). Hope you can cope… Frans Philip Tucker wrote>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Thanks for the advice.  I really just don’t want to think about this >situation with her anymore and thinking about what I have to offer would >eventually lead to that.  but I will……I smiled all the time like a >smitten school boy to her.  I tried my hardest to be supportive. There’s a >thin line between supportive and co-dependent especially with a woman. I >tried my best whatever it was interpreted as.  If you start affirming >through support then you eventually only get to see the part that needs >healing (the dark side).  It takes a lot out of you, and a depressed person >really needs to conserve all the energy he has.  She had a backwards type of >way about her.  I never knew how to approach her.  I tried my best, but was >only given the cold shoulder. >I write questions like "why….."  becuase I’m in pain and I need to expell >it. "Love yourself"  That’s something she said once to me.  I missed those >days.  I missed it when she would treat me like a real person.  Then it >stopped and I don’t know why.  She did it in such a way that it made me >believe that it was how she felt all the time, but was afraid to show. The >cold part of her.  The sleeping monster. >I found out that she really did have a life, and that I was really being >given the synthetic part.  She wanted to hang around people who were 200+ >IQ’s.  I guess its like the woman who hung around rock stars because they >felt that they were a part of something.  It didn’t bother me becuase >atleast I could talk with her.  Then she just got worse and worse. Telling >me things like I was a distraction and that she didn’t want to sit next to >me.  Then it went from telling me bad things to telling me no things at >all.  It all happened around the time I told her that I wanted to be >included in her world.  I would send her email and she would just ignore >it.  I don’t know if it went directly to the garbage every time it got >downloaded.  I sent her a letter and I caught up to her only to find out >that she had trashed it without even reading it.  Then I remembered what she >had said about her "other" friends.  They were people that looked a lot like >me (people say I look really intellegent), and acted smart.  What I’ve >figured is that she liked me at first because she thought I was really smart >then gave up on me when I was honest about my grades this semester. >Most people have hang ups like that.  They want a certain type of person. >All I have to offer are the things people say they want, but don’t want the >responsibilty for keeping.  I don’t have the cars, the money, the fame, the >brains, the athletic abilty.  That’s what I meant.  I don’t have a >competitive advantage in friendship.  All I have is a desire to make people >feel special.  I guess that comes across as being a brown-noser.  I dunno. >I’m tired of playing the whole thing in my head.  Thanks again for your >advice.

Response:

On Tue, 11 May 1999 06:02:34 -0400, Philip Tucker <gator…@ufl.edu> wrote: >Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something >more special to offer than loyalty.  People want something more…a >reason to pick you over someone else.  Hey, Martha (pertains only to my

Oh yes.  And it’s so annoying, too, when people moan about how disloyal people are, and here mr. loyalty is, who those people couldn’t care less about. The ordinary person is like this:  they come up with something they think they want, and proclaim that to the world, but they lie every time.  The lonely person is like this: they come up with something they think they want, and proclaim that to the world, but because they’re right everyone ignores them. And BTW I hate it every time I catch myself using they for a singular gender neutral pronoun.  I feel so dirty. >Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something >more special to offer than loyalty.

Hurt only goes away with time.  It only goes away with time away from additional pain.  That is, it only goes away with alone-ness and locked doors.  It also doesn’t care if you want it to or not, it just fades on its own. Every time you open that door, you’re asking for pain–this is the human desire for pain (that is, companionship)–and you should be prepared for it.  It’s not that the specific people you meet make you feel that way, it’s not some bad karma that is coming down upon only you,  it’s just that ALL people are like that.  A thick skin is not enough.  You need plate armor. I don’t know if it actually helps, being prepared, since I don’t have more than a handful of experiences.  But it is the boy scout motto after all. — Listen to Grendel (ambient/signal music) at http://listen.to/grendel   Note, my return address may be munged.  You make the call.  Though   if you send mail from a spam friendly ISP, such as Earthlink or cw.net,   your mail may be blacklisted.

Response:

Thanks for the advice.  I really just don’t want to think about this situation with her anymore and thinking about what I have to offer would eventually lead to that.  but I will……I smiled all the time like a smitten school boy to her.  I tried my hardest to be supportive.  There’s a thin line between supportive and co-dependent especially with a woman.  I tried my best whatever it was interpreted as.  If you start affirming through support then you eventually only get to see the part that needs healing (the dark side).  It takes a lot out of you, and a depressed person really needs to conserve all the energy he has.  She had a backwards type of way about her.  I never knew how to approach her.  I tried my best, but was only given the cold shoulder. I write questions like "why….."  becuase I’m in pain and I need to expell it. "Love yourself"  That’s something she said once to me.  I missed those days.  I missed it when she would treat me like a real person.  Then it stopped and I don’t know why.  She did it in such a way that it made me believe that it was how she felt all the time, but was afraid to show.  The cold part of her.  The sleeping monster. I found out that she really did have a life, and that I was really being given the synthetic part.  She wanted to hang around people who were 200+ IQ’s.  I guess its like the woman who hung around rock stars because they felt that they were a part of something.  It didn’t bother me becuase atleast I could talk with her.  Then she just got worse and worse.  Telling me things like I was a distraction and that she didn’t want to sit next to me.  Then it went from telling me bad things to telling me no things at all.  It all happened around the time I told her that I wanted to be included in her world.  I would send her email and she would just ignore it.  I don’t know if it went directly to the garbage every time it got downloaded.  I sent her a letter and I caught up to her only to find out that she had trashed it without even reading it.  Then I remembered what she had said about her "other" friends.  They were people that looked a lot like me (people say I look really intellegent), and acted smart.  What I’ve figured is that she liked me at first because she thought I was really smart then gave up on me when I was honest about my grades this semester. Most people have hang ups like that.  They want a certain type of person. All I have to offer are the things people say they want, but don’t want the responsibilty for keeping.  I don’t have the cars, the money, the fame, the brains, the athletic abilty.  That’s what I meant.  I don’t have a competitive advantage in friendship.  All I have is a desire to make people feel special.  I guess that comes across as being a brown-noser.  I dunno. I’m tired of playing the whole thing in my head.  Thanks again for your advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frans wrote: > Philip Tucker writes>… > >Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer > >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the > >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something > >more special to offer than loyalty.  People want something more…a > >reason to pick you over someone else.  Hey, Martha (pertains only to my > >rant, an ex-friend who valued image over friendship)..I’m not a radio > >jock, or a physicist, or a lawyer, or an accounting genius…I don’t > get > >4.0’s or internships in New York.  I’m just a person.  Simple.  Why > >couldn’t you have just seen that and accept me for the person I am. > Why > >could you care less about my feelings and more about my lack of a > >resume? Why did you have to be soooo shallow.  So indifferent to the > >fact that I was giving you everything I could?  Why did I have to give > >more than I had to keep you?  Its over now, and I can’t stop thinking > >about the hurt. > >Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer > >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the > >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something > >more special to offer than loyalty. > Hi Philip, > The gift of loyalty, being loyal through storms and thunder, is a great > gift, you should cherish and honour. > Nothing more to offer? What about yourself? > You write it wasn’t enough. This is relative. It could have been enough, > but not for the receiver. I’m not able to judge here. We don’t know you, > nor the person who left you. > Please sit down and think this over. What can you offer? Who is Philip? > What do you need to like yourself. Write down all things you are good or > well enough with. Are you able to smile? You could offer a smile every > day. Are you able to support? You could offer your shoulder every day. > Are you able to sing? To cook? To write? Offer a song, a meal, a poem > every day. > We all are special! Only we have to learn how to show it to ourselves. > You have so many "why’s". Don’t ask this to another person, but try to > find the answers yourself. There are persons enough who are never > satisfied with what you give. They accept until you gave all, than > disappear. > Love yourself. Like yourself for who you are. Nothing to give? Work on > that! > Hope I gave you help today. Have to do it each day! > Frans

Response:

Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something more special to offer than loyalty.  People want something more…a reason to pick you over someone else.  Hey, Martha (pertains only to my rant, an ex-friend who valued image over friendship)..I’m not a radio jock, or a physicist, or a lawyer, or an accounting genius…I don’t get 4.0’s or internships in New York.  I’m just a person.  Simple.  Why couldn’t you have just seen that and accept me for the person I am.  Why could you care less about my feelings and more about my lack of a resume? Why did you have to be soooo shallow.  So indifferent to the fact that I was giving you everything I could?  Why did I have to give more than I had to keep you?  Its over now, and I can’t stop thinking about the hurt. Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something more special to offer than loyalty.

Response:

Philip Tucker writes>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something >more special to offer than loyalty.  People want something more…a >reason to pick you over someone else.  Hey, Martha (pertains only to my >rant, an ex-friend who valued image over friendship)..I’m not a radio >jock, or a physicist, or a lawyer, or an accounting genius…I don’t get >4.0’s or internships in New York.  I’m just a person.  Simple.  Why >couldn’t you have just seen that and accept me for the person I am. Why >could you care less about my feelings and more about my lack of a >resume? Why did you have to be soooo shallow.  So indifferent to the >fact that I was giving you everything I could?  Why did I have to give >more than I had to keep you?  Its over now, and I can’t stop thinking >about the hurt. >Why can’t the hurt go away when I want it too?  Why must I suffer >through this endless self introspection?  Why do I seem to find the >people that will make me feel this way?  I wish that I had something >more special to offer than loyalty.

Hi Philip, The gift of loyalty, being loyal through storms and thunder, is a great gift, you should cherish and honour. Nothing more to offer? What about yourself? You write it wasn’t enough. This is relative. It could have been enough, but not for the receiver. I’m not able to judge here. We don’t know you, nor the person who left you. Please sit down and think this over. What can you offer? Who is Philip? What do you need to like yourself. Write down all things you are good or well enough with. Are you able to smile? You could offer a smile every day. Are you able to support? You could offer your shoulder every day. Are you able to sing? To cook? To write? Offer a song, a meal, a poem every day. We all are special! Only we have to learn how to show it to ourselves. You have so many "why’s". Don’t ask this to another person, but try to find the answers yourself. There are persons enough who are never satisfied with what you give. They accept until you gave all, than disappear. Love yourself. Like yourself for who you are. Nothing to give? Work on that! Hope I gave you help today. Have to do it each day! Frans

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Question:

My company uses the DOS version of Platinum and will need to replace it to deal with Y2K and usability issues. We are leaning towards Platinum SQL. Is anyone using this package? What is your opinion? If you passed it over in favor of a competitor, why? Thanks. Mike

Response:

They are using some really weird SQL; something like Perceptive SQL? The competition, primarily Great Plains and Solomon, are clobbering them. The SQL product I generally recommend in that category is UA Corporate Accounting, which has MS Access97 front end and MS SQL Server back end.  It’s reasonably priced and you get the source code. Base price is under $25K.  Great Plains and Solomon are more than $40K. If you like, call me during business hours; 714-261-2694. Sincerely,  - Carl Dick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My company uses the DOS version of Platinum and will need to replace it to deal with Y2K and usability issues. We are leaning towards Platinum SQL. Is anyone using this package? What is your opinion? If you passed it over in favor of a competitor, why? Thanks. Mike

Response:

Carl, It is Pervasive – Previously known as Btrieve and the database is called Scalable SQL. It is certainly a strong and very wel known database manager and is quite sufficient for the middle market. REgards Habib

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -They are using some really weird SQL; something like Perceptive SQL? The competition, primarily Great Plains and Solomon, are clobbering them. The SQL product I generally recommend in that category is UA Corporate Accounting, which has MS Access97 front end and MS SQL Server back end.  It’s reasonably priced and you get the source code. Base price is under $25K.  Great Plains and Solomon are more than $40K. If you like, call me during business hours; 714-261-2694. Sincerely, – Carl Dick My company uses the DOS version of Platinum and will need to replace it to deal with Y2K and usability issues. We are leaning towards Platinum SQL. Is anyone using this package? What is your opinion? If you passed it over in favor of a competitor, why? Thanks. Mike

Response:

Mike I need more informatio. Like what type of firm you are working with. How many transactions a month you have. What equipment are you using.  There are better choices and better packages for a lot less. nude pictures

Response:

Question:

Re Reactors Ontario Hydro has 10 or 12 operating Nukes. They are extremly expensive, the last set of 4 reactors of about 1GW each ended up costing in excess of $14 Billion. That is a large sum. The result is that Ontario Hydro is now in an unfavourable debt position. During a study regarding the plants, they found them considerablly more expensive than conventional plants in operation as well. A very substantial part of the additional cost is the burocracy required to make sure a nuke is safe and secure. Not an area where cutting corners is the thing to do. Making sure that for example a particular piece of tubing is precisely the right alloy and wall thickness with zero tolerance of error for every repair is very costly. Paul Neelands says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A couple of things about IFRs:  the plutonium accounting is hard to do, and you have to worry about more than just people making bombs out of the stuff.  It is somewhat toxic, and you would be moving tonnes of the stuff around the country in an IFR economy.  The second thing is that most IFRs use liquid sodium coollant.  This is nasty stuff, and the long-term reliability of the systems is a valid concern.  The safety issue is not a big deal here, but the economic issue is:  reactors are expensive, and if they are not sufficiently reliable they will be uneconomic. Thanks.   You took a little of the wind out of my enthusiasm and this is a good thing… I wanted to get all sides of this issue. <snip Sincerely, Josh

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Re Reactors Ontario Hydro has 10 or 12 operating Nukes. They are extremly expensive, the last set of 4 reactors of about 1GW each ended up costing in excess of $14 Billion. That is a large sum. The result is that Ontario Hydro is now in an unfavourable debt position. During a study regarding the plants, they found them considerablly more expensive than conventional plants in operation as well. A very substantial part of the additional cost is the burocracy required to make sure a nuke is safe and secure. Not an area where cutting corners is the thing to do. Making sure that for example a particular piece of tubing is precisely the right alloy and wall thickness with zero tolerance of error for every repair is very costly. Paul Neelands

Here in Illinois, Commonwealth Edison is in pretty much the same position.  They have formed a holding company (Unicom) and it is my impression that the whole nuclear debacle has proven to be such an awful decision, financially, logistically and otherwise,  that there is some serious chance that bankruptcy may someday loom. However, that is why I am interested in IFR’s. First, I think the current nuclear-cost predicament was inevitable. "Not-yet-ready-for-prime-time" doesn’t even begin to describe nuclear of the 50’s-80’s and the technology is still today probably half-baked in some ways. Some of the costs and difficulties are related to the amount and danger of the waste generated, and the national security concerns relating to maintaining it. The IFR concept is useful to consider if only as a technology that someday may aid in waste disposal.  If a material is dangerous enough to be considered dangerous waste, then it has enough energy left to consider continuing to burn it. Second, much of the IFR research was carried out by Argonne here in Illinois. As a national reasearch lab, the only further funding allocated for this project has been funding for its resolution and shut-down. It would made have sense to consider, I think, the building of one IFR plant here in Illinois if such a plant would have aided in shutting down some of the other more costly plants and if it would have provided a permanent solution to Illinois’ nuke waste problem.  Don’t know that it would have, given the realities of nuke industry cost-overruns on new plants, but I’ve wondered. Josh (reply posted to Usenet, w/out author’s info since I’m not sure why the original reply doesn’t show up on my usenet screen at this time, but I wanted to use the paragraph as a way to publicly address a couple of points.).

Response: