Question:

To quote Howdy Doody ……. "Why? Because we like you!" Joely Its really from the Mickey Mouse Club quote …… There are so many of you snooping into my life … you should have realized by now that I have often lived outside of the USA for extended periods of time.

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

Happy Birthday! I hear Costa Rica is quite a beautiful place, by the way ….. There are so many of you snooping into my life … you should have realized by now that I have often lived outside of the USA for extended periods of time.

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

Re: Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays I’ll remember that next time I need to do procedure. If you do not want to get cancer we will just work blindly on your tooth, if we guess wrong oh well, can’t blame me for something I can’t see. I can see the guys doing an angioplasty without x-rays, lets shove that probe through the heart blindly oh well if we miss better than a chance at getting cancer from the x-rays

Response:

Grell? I had no idea ……. Sorry to hear of these complications ,,,,,,,,, of course I am just teasing you (in internet fashion)! Joely – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I heard you left the country to remain judgement-proof. Is that in error? Joely Absolutely in error … In fact, after 35 years of perfect credit …I now have a judgement against me by former Inamed President, Patrick O’leary. The Appeals Court was mandated to award him attorneys fees when they overturned my SLAPP victory against him, claiming that a coward hiding behind aliases to lie about me was not a believable source. By law, he got the judgement that was approximately $12K I believe. You are obviously quoting the correspondence between my attorney and Malicious Prosecutor "I didn’t intend to sue her" Chris Grell regarding Polevoy’s and my negotiations … (see the new ruling and what the Judges say about this … it’s actually comical) www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm What that referred to was the fact that, in order to continue to do my work, I have sold all my properties, spent all of my savings and inheritance … with almost no income for 9 years) concurrently having a filthy Smear Campaign waged against me by Barrett’s Parrots and the silicone manufacturers. Since you are quoting from them … please let us all know why Grell reports: "Dr. Barrett informs me that all sources of his income are protected." Protected? Please find out what he thinks that means. Someone should also explain to Grell also what the latest ruling means since the information coming from his camp is inaccurate. There are so many of you snooping into my life … you should have realized by now that I have often lived outside of the USA for extended periods of time. Usually Barrett’s Team claims that I "fled" the US … seems to turn them on to think I’m a fugitive. I’ve been a Wandering Jewess since I graduated university 34 years ago … now enjoying life in Central America. Be nice now Joelly … it’s my birthday … AND it’s your buddy Probert’s one year birthday as "Aloysius X" … (please let him know how silly and transparent that stupid disguise is … it hurts the 3 plaintiffs images having them quote him on Polevoy’s website … not yet updated, strange that is) … www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

I heard you left the country to remain judgement-proof. Is that in error? Joely

Absolutely in error … In fact, after 35 years of perfect credit …I now have a judgement against me by former Inamed President, Patrick O’leary. The Appeals Court was mandated to award him attorneys fees when they overturned my SLAPP victory against him, claiming that a coward hiding behind aliases to lie about me was not a believable source. By law, he got the judgement that was approximately $12K I believe. You are obviously quoting the correspondence between my attorney and Malicious Prosecutor "I didn’t intend to sue her" Chris Grell regarding Polevoy’s and my negotiations … (see the new ruling and what the Judges say about this … it’s actually comical) www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm What that referred to was the fact that, in order to continue to do my work, I have sold all my properties, spent all of my savings and inheritance … with almost no income for 9 years) concurrently having a filthy Smear Campaign waged against me by Barrett’s Parrots and the silicone manufacturers. Since you are quoting from them … please let us all know why Grell reports: "Dr. Barrett informs me that all sources of his income are protected." Protected? Please find out what he thinks that means. Someone should also explain to Grell also what the latest ruling means since the information coming from his camp is inaccurate. There are so many of you snooping into my life … you should have realized by now that I have often lived outside of the USA for extended periods of time. Usually Barrett’s Team claims that I "fled" the US … seems to turn them on to think I’m a fugitive. I’ve been a Wandering Jewess since I graduated university 34 years ago … now enjoying life in Central America. Be nice now Joelly … it’s my birthday … AND it’s your buddy Probert’s one year birthday as "Aloysius X" … (please let him know how silly and transparent that stupid disguise is … it hurts the 3 plaintiffs images having them quote him on Polevoy’s website … not yet updated, strange that is) … www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

Response:

Hello Joel, Goodbye Joel. Jan

Response:

Ilena Rose got slammed before for her tax-exempt organization that is heavy on collecting funds and very light on dispensing funds. I was wondering if she has another …… Joely More importantly, are there any tax-exempt organizations in San Diego where we can send contributions ……? I don’t know about that 4/15 is approaching – will they accept coupons? carabelli

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

Hi Orac, Then I guess Costa Rica has not arranged extradition yet! Joely Hi Ilena! Back from Costa Rica? Actually, from her NNTP Posting Host (which resolves to cce02.racsa.co.cr), it looks like she’s still there.

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

I heard you left the country to remain judgement-proof. Is that in error? Joely – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ilena! Back from Costa Rica? JOELY!!!!! Nope honey … I did totally beat your buddy Barrett and his Malicious Prosecutor Grell … both in Superior and the California Court of Appeals tho … wwww.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm Be a good boy now Joelly … Love, Ilena www.BreastImplantAwareness.org What did you think about the article I posted, Joelly?

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. So what you are saying is that 86% of my radiation exposure is "all natural"?  Is that good or bad?  I never know. It sounds like I should hide at the dentist’s office to avoid the cancer risk of my kitchen countertop. Clean out your ears. The sounds you are getting are mighty strange. If you want more and more x-rays, it’s your body, OMMV. You might try reading it again.

Hmmm, I did, but I still see it saying that 86% of my radiation exposure comes from natural sources.  Am I wrong? —

Response:

Hello Joel, Goodbye Joel.

Que?  Sorry, my name’s not "Joel".  It’s not even Jojo or Joe.  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. So what you are saying is that 86% of my radiation exposure is "all natural"?  Is that good or bad?  I never know. It sounds like I should hide at the dentist’s office to avoid the cancer risk of my kitchen countertop. Clean out your ears. The sounds you are getting are mighty strange. If you want more and more x-rays, it’s your body, OMMV. You might try reading it again. Hmmm, I did, but I still see it saying that 86% of my radiation exposure comes from natural sources.  Am I wrong?

Nope. See: http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/factsheets/pdf/ymp0337rev1.pdf http://www.nrc.gov/what-we-do/radiation/sources.html These cite approximately 81-85% of exposure as coming from natural sources and only 15% of radiation exposure as coming from medical sources. Of course, no doubt Jan will not believe these sources, as they are from the government, specifically the U.S. Department of Energy and the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. For her: http://greennature.com/article272.html — Orac        |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."             |             |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you             | inconvenience me with questions?"

Response:

Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor 30 January 2004

I didn’t realize it was that bad, HOWEVER this twice a year stuff is just a money maker. EVERYONE has the right to tell their dentists they only want x-rays. say once every two years. Jan Ignore David Wright, who will call names, as usual. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=486000 Radiation from X-rays in dentist surgeries and hospitals causes 700 people in Britain to develop cancer each year, researchers say today. Although medical X-rays help diagnose disease, they have long been known to cause a small increase in the risk of cancer because of the radiation they emit. X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. Researchers from Oxford University and Cancer Research UK estimated the size of the risk based on the number of X-rays carried out in Britain and in 14 other countries. According to their findings, published in the medical journal The Lancet, the results showed that X-rays accounted for six out of every 1,000 cases of cancer up to the age of 75, equivalent to 700 out of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year. The calculations were based on the cancer rates among Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the Second World War. The UK had a lower risk from medical X-rays than most of the other areas studied including Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Germany, Australia and Japan. In Japan 30 of every 1,000 cases of cancer are thought to caused by X-rays. In the UK, the National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) has monitored the doses of radiation used in X-ray examinations for more than a decade. Advancing technology has halved the dose used in X-ray examinations since the early 1990s but the board found a 20-fold difference between the doses delivered in different hospitals in its latest review. Concern has focused on the growing use of Computed Tomography (CT) scans which take a series of X-ray pictures through the body and have revolutionised the diagnosis of cancer and other diseases. But according to the NRPB a single CT scan involves a dose of radiation up to 1,000 times that of a chest X-ray. Barry Wall, head of medical dosimetry at the NRPB, said: "CT scanning is expanding so rapidly. The images are so fantastic that not a lot of attention is being paid to the doses used." In a commentary on the findings, two German specialists in radiology said that the authors did not consider the benefits of X-rays in their study and offset those against the risks. "Benefits include the earlier detection of cancers by radiological examinations and the possibility of early treatment," they wrote. But they said up to 30 per cent of chest X-rays might not be necessary. They also said that unnecessary CT examinations could cause radiation exposure. "Those ordering radiological procedures should think carefully about the benefit for and the risk to their patients for each examination."   30 January 2004 14:20

Response:

Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks.

So what you are saying is that 86% of my radiation exposure is "all natural"?  Is that good or bad?  I never know. It sounds like I should hide at the dentist’s office to avoid the cancer risk of my kitchen countertop.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. So what you are saying is that 86% of my radiation exposure is "all natural"?  Is that good or bad?  I never know. It sounds like I should hide at the dentist’s office to avoid the cancer risk of my kitchen countertop.

Clean out your ears. The sounds you are getting are mighty strange. If you want more and more x-rays, it’s your body, OMMV. You might try reading it again. Jan Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor 30 January 2004 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=486000 Radiation from X-rays in dentist surgeries and hospitals causes 700 people in Britain to develop cancer each year, researchers say today. Although medical X-rays help diagnose disease, they have long been known to cause a small increase in the risk of cancer because of the radiation they emit. X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. Researchers from Oxford University and Cancer Research UK estimated the size of the risk based on the number of X-rays carried out in Britain and in 14 other countries. According to their findings, published in the medical journal The Lancet, the results showed that X-rays accounted for six out of every 1,000 cases of cancer up to the age of 75, equivalent to 700 out of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year. The calculations were based on the cancer rates among Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the Second World War. The UK had a lower risk from medical X-rays than most of the other areas studied including Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Germany, Australia and Japan. In Japan 30 of every 1,000 cases of cancer are thought to caused by X-rays. In the UK, the National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) has monitored the doses of radiation used in X-ray examinations for more than a decade. Advancing technology has halved the dose used in X-ray examinations since the early 1990s but the board found a 20-fold difference between the doses delivered in different hospitals in its latest review. Concern has focused on the growing use of Computed Tomography (CT) scans which take a series of X-ray pictures through the body and have revolutionised the diagnosis of cancer and other diseases. But according to the NRPB a single CT scan involves a dose of radiation up to 1,000 times that of a chest X-ray. Barry Wall, head of medical dosimetry at the NRPB, said: "CT scanning is expanding so rapidly. The images are so fantastic that not a lot of attention is being paid to the doses used." In a commentary on the findings, two German specialists in radiology said that the authors did not consider the benefits of X-rays in their study and offset those against the risks. "Benefits include the earlier detection of cancers by radiological examinations and the possibility of early treatment," they wrote. But they said up to 30 per cent of chest X-rays might not be necessary. They also said that unnecessary CT examinations could cause radiation exposure. "Those ordering radiological procedures should think carefully about the benefit for and the risk to their patients for each examination."    30 January 2004 14:20

Response:

Hi Ilena! Back from Costa Rica?

Actually, from her NNTP Posting Host (which resolves to cce02.racsa.co.cr), it looks like she’s still there. — Orac        |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."             |             |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you             | inconvenience me with questions?"

Response:

Hi Ilena! Back from Costa Rica? JOELY!!!!!

Nope honey … I did totally beat your buddy Barrett and his Malicious Prosecutor Grell … both in Superior and the California Court of Appeals tho … wwww.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm Be a good boy now Joelly … Love, Ilena www.BreastImplantAwareness.org What did you think about the article I posted, Joelly?

Response:

Hi Ilena! Back from Costa Rica? JOELY!!!!! Nope honey … I did totally beat your buddy Barrett and his Malicious Prosecutor Grell … both in Superior and the California Court of Appeals tho …

California Courts are a little bit looney.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor 30 January 2004 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=486000 Radiation from X-rays in dentist surgeries and hospitals causes 700 people in Britain to develop cancer each year, researchers say today. Although medical X-rays help diagnose disease, they have long been known to cause a small increase in the risk of cancer because of the radiation they emit. X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. Researchers from Oxford University and Cancer Research UK estimated the size of the risk based on the number of X-rays carried out in Britain and in 14 other countries. According to their finding published in the medical journal The Lancet, the results showed that X-rays accounted for six out of every 1,000 cases of cancer up to the age of 75, equivalent to 700 out of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year. The calculations were based on the cancer rates among Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the Second World War.

EOM continuing its never-ending process of self-evaluation.  Good for them!!  I don’t like the number of  assumptions being made here and I am sure the original article would have contained numerous caveats.   For example we don’t know that there is a linear association between radiation dosage and cancer, different tissues display different sensitivity, and isotopes absorbed following atomic explosions will be absorbed and have specific carcinogenic actions on organs such as the thyroid and bone. Still, it is wise for doctors to only order xrays when the information will significantly change treatment. The only connection that I can see to alternative medicine is that it is possible in both the USA and Russia to go and sit in radioactive mines ‘for your health’, and people are convinced it does wonders for them: numerous testimonials ( surprise!  surprise!) Peter Moran – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The UK had a lower risk from medical X-rays than most of the other areas studied including Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Germany, Australia and Japan. In Japan 30 of every 1,000 cases of cancer are thought to caused by X-rays. In the UK, the National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) has monitored the doses of radiation used in X-ray examinations for more than a decade. Advancing technology has halved the dose used in X-ray examinations since the early 1990s but the board found a 20-fold difference between the doses delivered in different hospitals in its latest review. Concern has focused on the growing use of Computed Tomography (CT) scans which take a series of X-ray pictures through the body and have revolutionised the diagnosis of cancer and other diseases. But according to the NRPB a single CT scan involves a dose of radiation up to 1,000 times that of a chest X-ray. Barry Wall, head of medical dosimetry at the NRPB, said: "CT scanning is expanding so rapidly. The images are so fantastic that not a lot of attention is being paid to the doses used." In a commentary on the findings, two German specialists in radiology said that the authors did not consider the benefits of X-rays in their study and offset those against the risks. "Benefits include the earlier detection of cancers by radiological examinations and the possibility of early treatment," they wrote. But they said up to 30 per cent of chest X-rays might not be necessary. They also said that unnecessary CT examinations could cause radiation exposure. "Those ordering radiological procedures should think carefully about the benefit for and the risk to their patients for each examination."    30 January 2004 14:20

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor 30 January 2004 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=486000 Radiation from X-rays in dentist surgeries and hospitals causes 700 people in Britain to develop cancer each year, researchers say today. Although medical X-rays help diagnose disease, they have long been known to cause a small increase in the risk of cancer because of the radiation they emit. X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. Researchers from Oxford University and Cancer Research UK estimated the size of the risk based on the number of X-rays carried out in Britain and in 14 other countries. According to their finding published in the medical journal The Lancet, the results showed that X-rays accounted for six out of every 1,000 cases of cancer up to the age of 75, equivalent to 700 out of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year. The calculations were based on the cancer rates among Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the Second World War. EOM continuing its never-ending process of self-evaluation.  Good for them!!

YEAH!!! THIS NEVER ENDING SELF-EVALUATION,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,has finally been FORCED to take a second look. Where were all the wonderful EOM dentists who did this x-raying twice a year, and KNEW it was not necessary??? Let’s all give them a hand!!!!!! <snip The only connection that I can see to alternative medicine

ZZzz. X-rays causing cancer and the over use of them is appropriate for ANY HEALTH NEWSGROUP. That buzz expression and excuse falls flat. Where was this *never-ending* process of self elevation when Jesse Gelsinger DIED, and the doctor remains on staff??? Do show us this never ending process, and how it has improved things. Can’t? That’s what I though, so all can chalk up this statement from Peter Moran as a LIE!!! Now we can all throw a party that EOM has been forced and backed into a corner, but don’t tell, we’ll celebrate it as they have made a great discovery. One that should have been made some 50 years ago. Poor poor pathetic, Peter Moran. Jan

Response:

More importantly, are there any tax-exempt organizations in San Diego where we can send contributions ……?

I don’t know about that 4/15 is approaching – will they accept coupons? carabelli

Response:

Take the time to subscribe and read the original article. You will also then be able to read a commentary by Peter Herzog and Christina T Rieger. Or if you wish you can continue to subscribe to your little e-mail service and rely on their reviews. carabelli

Response:

Hi Ilena! Back from Costa Rica? JOELY!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor 30 January 2004 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=486000 Radiation from X-rays in dentist surgeries and hospitals causes 700 people in Britain to develop cancer each year, researchers say today. Although medical X-rays help diagnose disease, they have long been known to cause a small increase in the risk of cancer because of the radiation they emit. X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. Researchers from Oxford University and Cancer Research UK estimated the size of the risk based on the number of X-rays carried out in Britain and in 14 other countries. According to their findings, published in the medical journal The Lancet, the results showed that X-rays accounted for six out of every 1,000 cases of cancer up to the age of 75, equivalent to 700 out of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year. The calculations were based on the cancer rates among Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the Second World War. The UK had a lower risk from medical X-rays than most of the other areas studied including Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Germany, Australia and Japan. In Japan 30 of every 1,000 cases of cancer are thought to caused by X-rays. In the UK, the National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) has monitored the doses of radiation used in X-ray examinations for more than a decade. Advancing technology has halved the dose used in X-ray examinations since the early 1990s but the board found a 20-fold difference between the doses delivered in different hospitals in its latest review. Concern has focused on the growing use of Computed Tomography (CT) scans which take a series of X-ray pictures through the body and have revolutionised the diagnosis of cancer and other diseases. But according to the NRPB a single CT scan involves a dose of radiation up to 1,000 times that of a chest X-ray. Barry Wall, head of medical dosimetry at the NRPB, said: "CT scanning is expanding so rapidly. The images are so fantastic that not a lot of attention is being paid to the doses used." In a commentary on the findings, two German specialists in radiology said that the authors did not consider the benefits of X-rays in their study and offset those against the risks. "Benefits include the earlier detection of cancers by radiological examinations and the possibility of early treatment," they wrote. But they said up to 30 per cent of chest X-rays might not be necessary. They also said that unnecessary CT examinations could cause radiation exposure. "Those ordering radiological procedures should think carefully about the benefit for and the risk to their patients for each examination."   30 January 2004 14:20

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

More importantly, are there any tax-exempt organizations in San Diego where we can send contributions ……? JOELY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take the time to subscribe and read the original article. You will also then be able to read a commentary by Peter Herzog and Christina T Rieger. Or if you wish you can continue to subscribe to your little e-mail service and rely on their reviews. carabelli

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient’s dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER

Response:

Hundreds of cancer cases blamed on dentist x-rays By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor 30 January 2004 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=486000 Radiation from X-rays in dentist surgeries and hospitals causes 700 people in Britain to develop cancer each year, researchers say today. Although medical X-rays help diagnose disease, they have long been known to cause a small increase in the risk of cancer because of the radiation they emit. X-rays are the largest man-made source of radiation to which the public is exposed, accounting for 14 per cent. Atomic testing and discharges from nuclear power stations account for a fraction of that figure, and most of the rest is natural radiation such as radon from granite rocks. Researchers from Oxford University and Cancer Research UK estimated the size of the risk based on the number of X-rays carried out in Britain and in 14 other countries. According to their findings, published in the medical journal The Lancet, the results showed that X-rays accounted for six out of every 1,000 cases of cancer up to the age of 75, equivalent to 700 out of the 124,000 cases of cancer diagnosed each year. The calculations were based on the cancer rates among Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the Second World War. The UK had a lower risk from medical X-rays than most of the other areas studied including Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Germany, Australia and Japan. In Japan 30 of every 1,000 cases of cancer are thought to caused by X-rays. In the UK, the National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) has monitored the doses of radiation used in X-ray examinations for more than a decade. Advancing technology has halved the dose used in X-ray examinations since the early 1990s but the board found a 20-fold difference between the doses delivered in different hospitals in its latest review. Concern has focused on the growing use of Computed Tomography (CT) scans which take a series of X-ray pictures through the body and have revolutionised the diagnosis of cancer and other diseases. But according to the NRPB a single CT scan involves a dose of radiation up to 1,000 times that of a chest X-ray. Barry Wall, head of medical dosimetry at the NRPB, said: "CT scanning is expanding so rapidly. The images are so fantastic that not a lot of attention is being paid to the doses used." In a commentary on the findings, two German specialists in radiology said that the authors did not consider the benefits of X-rays in their study and offset those against the risks. "Benefits include the earlier detection of cancers by radiological examinations and the possibility of early treatment," they wrote. But they said up to 30 per cent of chest X-rays might not be necessary. They also said that unnecessary CT examinations could cause radiation exposure. "Those ordering radiological procedures should think carefully about the benefit for and the risk to their patients for each examination."    30 January 2004 14:20

Response:

Question:

"And people being people, they cashed the second check," Favazzo said.

Sue the people for fraud.  They KNEW they shouldn’t have gotten second checks but cashed them anyways.  Or publish the names of the people who cashed their double checks and refuse to give it back.

Response:

But after a change in federal and state law, that responsibility was gradually shifted to the state beginning in 1999. By last July, the state was handling all child support payments.

Well, here is the underlying problem. The government has declared that all divorced dads are criminals. If the child support people limited their activities to those cases where there has been a complaint, then: 1. They would be more competent. 2. They would have some respect for the constitution.

Response:

Well, here is the underlying problem. The government has declared that all divorced dads are criminals.

That’s as dumb-assed as the general idea that all non-custodial moms are unfit mothers.

Response:

Well, here is the underlying problem. The government has declared that all divorced dads are criminals. That’s as dumb-assed as the general idea that all non-custodial moms are unfit mothers.

Personally, I favor a system that presumes that all custodial parents are bums. So, the government should handle all visitation. Like … you deliver the kids to the state and they will be forwarded to the NCP. Sure, many, many kids will be held up in processing for 2-4 weeks, but, in some situations, the NCP will get twice the expected number of kids.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, here is the underlying problem. The government has declared that all divorced dads are criminals. That’s as dumb-assed as the general idea that all non-custodial moms are unfit mothers. Personally, I favor a system that presumes that all custodial parents are bums. So, the government should handle all visitation. Like … you deliver the kids to the state and they will be forwarded to the NCP. Sure, many, many kids will be held up in processing for 2-4 weeks, but, in some situations, the NCP will get twice the expected number of kids.

Oh, man. that was funny. I can’t stop giggling. Best – Fido – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

(Provided for educaytional purposes only) Saturday, March 2, 2002 State double-issues child support checks Second time in recent months By DAVID A. LIEB The Associated Press For the second time in recent months, the state has double-issued a batch of child support checks and is trying to reclaim the money from custodial parents. The latest mistake occurred as the state was trying to route checks to people through the St. Louis circuit court clerk’s office. A total of 133 checks, accounting for about $63,000, were errantly sent twice to recipients, state and local officials confirmed Friday. During the Thanksgiving holiday, the state double-issued $1.2 million in child support checks, about two-thirds of which has since been recovered. The St. Louis mistake happened after Christmas but was noted by the state only this past week, said Deb Hendricks, spokeswoman for the state Department of Social Services, which oversees the child support division. But St. Louis Circuit Clerk Mariano Favazzo said the checks were issued sporadically in late December and January and that officials became aware of the problem more than a month ago. "Somebody made a mistake … and bang, some extra checks went out," Favazzo said. "We discovered it, we stopped those we could, and now the Division of Child Support Enforcement is going to get our money back." Child support used to be collected from non-custodial parents by circuit clerks’ offices, which then paid the money to custodial parents. But after a change in federal and state law, that responsibility was gradually shifted to the state beginning in 1999. By last July, the state was handling all child support payments. Some circuit clerks, however, still had balances from money they had collected but had been unable to pay to recipients, typically because they couldn’t determine a correct address. Favazzo said his office had about $400,000 in such money and asked the state to help route it to recipients. After Christmas, the St. Louis circuit clerk’s office also began posting on a Web site the names of people who were owed money. Through the combined state and local efforts, about $300,000 of the balance has been paid to custodial parents, Favazzo said. To accomplish that, the state had to void some uncashed checks and reissue them after learning correct mailing addresses. "In that process, there was a timing issue between getting the list and the time we could void and reissue the checks," Hendricks said. "Some of the (old) checks from the circuit clerk’s office were cashed" while their replacement checks were being processed. "And people being people, they cashed the second check," Favazzo said. The state has a limited ability to recover duplicate checks. It can ask for voluntary repayment and can withhold future checks for overdue child support. But the state cannot withhold a family’s regular child support check.

Response:

Question:

I think a good accountant could answer that question, and I think the answer would be along the lines of what you have written. Selling Price  ( Average market value ) less liens less cost of clearing (liens/contracts/etc.) less cost of selling ( and perhaps delivery ) The next two are money in your pocket, but have nothing to do with the value of the  airplane. PLUS any insurance refund PLUS any contracted maintenance  refund Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone please explain to me what they believe is the most correct way of calculating capital or equity value in an airplane when you’re in a partnership ?  Most people I speak to say "fair market value minus liens etc equals equity."  So how do we calculate "Capital value" or is it just the same ? Thanx.

Response:

Partnership capital is based on cost, not fair market value.  Presuming that the partners purchase the plane outright (trade-ups and situations where one partner owns 100% of the plane before creating the partnership gets more complicated), you record the cost that you incurred in acquiring the plane. You can capitalize all costs related to the acquisition such as transportation costs to get the plane to your airport, costs incurred in finding the plane to purchase, and cost of pre-purchase inspections.  If you made any "capital improvement" that added to the life or value of the plane such as an engine overhaul, or a prop overhaul, you add the cost of those items to the plane.  Sometimes it gets tricky in determining whether you made a "capital improvement" or just a repair.  Consult with your accountant when you are not sure.  Then subtract accumulated depreciation and outstanding lien balance.   That would give you the collective equity for the partnership.  If you have two partners who contributed equally to the partnership, each partners owns half of the total partnership equity. Partner’s capital usually doesn’t correspond well to the fair market value since you are tracking historical cost rather than value of the plane; you are primarily tracking partner’s capital for tax reasons.  Recommend that you sit down with your accountant during the first year and go over this in detail. Kent Shaw, CPA N9396C

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone please explain to me what they believe is the most correct way of calculating capital or equity value in an airplane when you’re in a partnership ?  Most people I speak to say "fair market value minus liens etc equals equity."  So how do we calculate "Capital value" or is it just the same ? Thanx.

Response:

Can someone please explain to me what they believe is the most correct way of calculating capital or equity value in an airplane when you’re in a partnership ?  Most people I speak to say "fair market value minus liens etc equals equity."  So how do we calculate "Capital value" or is it just the same ? Thanx.

Response:

Question:

Haven’t worked with Peachtree 2000, but what Peachtree probably ment was that you could use the import function to link with your other programs.   What you have to do is find an export routine in the VB programs and then determin the database structure of the tables you wish to export.  Then do the same with Peachtree except on the import side.  I do this all the time with SBT software and it is actually the basis of the way data is moved between most GL’s and  A/R’s.  You need to make sure field sizes are the same, field types are the same, etc.  Generally you start with the data dictionary. If this sounds complex, it is.  Check out my web page at WWW.SBTBILL.COM. Bill Couture

Response:

Addendum 2 Dynamic link may mean DDE.  You can use VB to do DDE with Peachtree.  I have a write up on this on my  web page.  It deals with the VFP version of it. Bill Couture

Response:

I was told it would link (no problem) if I bought the 25 user peachtree accounting 2000 5.0 which I wanted to dynamically link(?) to microsoft access and/or visual basic manufacturing software.  i am now told by peachtree it will not… is there a way to do this or software to buy to link .. with out problems?

Response:

Question:

You don’t say whether you want to use the software as a ‘Front End’ system to record sales and produce  receipts for customers or simply as a ‘Back End’ system to do ‘after the fact’ bookkeeping.  Unless you want to spend more money for a specialised salon system, I would recommend you look at any or all of the ‘Big Three’ entry level systems – Quick Books, MYOB and Simply. They are inexpensive, proven, reliable systems and most accounting people are familiar with one or more of them.  Depending on how much spare time you have, you might want to consider talking to an Accounting Software Consultant who is familiar with the software and can show you how it can be adapted to handle your requirements and then pay them to install and setup the software up for you.  Saves a lot of time and frustration in the long run. FWIW,   Peter

Response:

IMHO  Using QuickBooks is not accounting.  It is collecting data.  If you have Bookkeeping skills you will "probably" collect the data correctly and be able to produce simple, reasonably useable P&L statements. If you don’t have enough skill you "may", and I emphases "may", kill your business. Bookkeeping skills are not enough to perform accounting.  The journey from bookkeeping to accounting is like a pleasant stroll down a garden path that abruptly ends at a cliff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you figured out what an LLC is, knew how or why to choose that form of company, and were able to figure out how to create and file the correct forms, — then you will probably be able to figure out QuickBooks and learn how to set up the right chart of accounts, etc. You are obviously smart enough to find the right books on the subject, read the right newsgroups, etc., so you can probably do it on your own. In that case, I think QuickBooks is what you want.  On the other hand, there might still be someone in your area who can show you how to use QuickBooks and get you started, for a price that you are willing to pay. The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes.

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *   Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia       * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

I’d like to say thanks to everyone for responding. This is a genuine question, I do not own, operate or in anyway benefit from an Accounting or Accounting Software business. I do believe professional advice has a value, and you get what you pay for, generally.  $1000 just seems too much for what I want/need.  That fee did not include ongoing support — just the initial setup to get a business started.  I’d estimate if I ever had to do it again, it would take less than an hour and  cost $300 in fees. Most comments I’ve received have directed me to Quickbooks — but I’ve also noticed that the QB newsgroup has many more software-related problem than Peachtree’s.  Peachtree’s newsgroup seems to be filled with more accounting-oriented questions than software "gotcha’s".  The one MYOB recommendation I received has had an impact (thanks to jdo in alt.biz.accounting ) and I will investigate it.  So, I’m still undecided, but feel a little more educated.  I expect that whatever choice I come to initially, I’ll grow to be satisfied with the second ( or third or fourth ) package I acquire. And it won’t be because of the software, but rather because of the knowledge I’ll gain along the way. Now for my soapbox: I have been able to successfully complete all the forms necessary — forming the LLC, FEID, state registration,  Sales Tax, and several other state/local requirements like fire, professional licensing, etc.  I know I’m not a genius.  I am persistent.  The biggest difficulty I’ve come up against is the language/jargon used in the forms.  It’s often daunting and can make one feel like giving in and paying to just get it over — afterall, no one wants to run afoul of the government.  For example, try finding a definition of "fiscal month" (I know now).  Similarly, when asked whether 1065 or 1120, it would be good if forms included the explanations, rather than assuming one knows or making one search elsewhere.  Once the information is available, the determination is simple.  I’m not the first person to walk the path, and I won’t be the last.  It can be made much simpler and more understandable. Look at what it took to use a computer 15 years ago and compare it to today. While exacting language is necessary, the language is foreign to most outside the professions.  With deference to the ethical lawyers and accountants, and I truly believe the majority are ethical, the unscrupulous individuals gather much of the limelight and generate a great deal of fear, uncertainty and doubt in the general public.  That "FUD" is how they make their income — i.e. charging $1000 for what might be $500 of value. Soapbox done. So thanks again to everyone.  I truly appreciate the time time folks have taken. Les Wichtel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use Thanks. Les Wichtel

Response:

It sounds like you have done just fine and will do fine in the future. I have used QuickBooks, MYOB,  Peachtree (DOS) version and Simply Accounting, which is my choice. They are similar in many ways but I find the AccPac SA the easiest to use. MYOB and QuickBooks operate "in the box" (recent versions but not the last) When you start the program it creates a "program window" and all the windows open for that program must be in that program box. SA operates "out of the box" the "program window" and each window open stands alone and can be placed anywhere on the Widows desktop. When you are working in Purchases and want to see the chart of accounts the floating windows are a great help. The Purchase Module in SA is the most flexible you can use it for inventory and non-inventory items at the same time. QuickBooks works much the same but while MYOB has some great inventory features you must use a different purchase form for inventory and non-inventory items. This can be a hassle. The big point for QuickBooks is the so-called ease of use by non-accountants. You can force it to place account numbers in the chart of accounts but it still uses the Quicken system to sort and display the accounts. Master Account:subaccount:subaccount. All programs have good reporting and can export reports to text or spreadsheet format. I like the general journal and ledger display system used in SA also. I still think the best thing to do is see which programs have courses taught in you local tech schools. Take the course and use that program. Re-inventing the wheel is time consuming and costly.

I’d like to say thanks to everyone for responding. Most comments I’ve received have directed me to Quickbooks — but I’ve also noticed that the QB newsgroup has many more software-related problem than Peachtree’s.  Peachtree’s newsgroup seems to be filled with more accounting-oriented questions than software "gotcha’s".  The one MYOB recommendation I received has had an impact (thanks to jdo in alt.biz.accounting ) and I will investigate it.  So, I’m still

undecided, SNIP

Response:

Value for Services Rendered can be stretched to the unbearable point, and usually is by most attorneys and CPA’s as well. I am primarily in real estate investing and own several rental properties besides.  Plus I have income from a small chemical company. My real estate tax attorney charges what I consider a very fair price. My CPA who handles all the corporate taxes, charges a very fair price, considering the complexity of my returns. But he makes up for it in side charges, for eg.  I asked him to run my personal taxes this year, all the numbers were provided in the order they appear in his software.  Charge, just under what my corporate was.  I also asked him to run my daughters 1040EZ, again the numbers were supplied in the order his software wants them.  Cost, about 5 times what any other CPA in the whole state would have charged. Who knows, he may have been giving me a good break on my corporate returns, but by charging so much for my personal and so exhorbitant for my daughters EZ.  He will never get those two orders again. TTUL Gary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Value for Services Rendered can be stretched to the unbearable point, and usually is by most attorneys and CPA’s as well. I am primarily in real estate investing and own several rental properties besides.  Plus I have income from a small chemical company. My real estate tax attorney charges what I consider a very fair price. My CPA who handles all the corporate taxes, charges a very fair price, considering the complexity of my returns. But he makes up for it in side charges, for eg.  I asked him to run my personal taxes this year, all the numbers were provided in the order they appear in his software.  Charge, just under what my corporate was.  I also asked him to run my daughters 1040EZ, again the numbers were supplied in the order his software wants them.  Cost, about 5 times what any other CPA in the whole state would have charged. Who knows, he may have been giving me a good break on my corporate returns, but by charging so much for my personal and so exhorbitant for my daughters EZ.  He will never get those two orders again. TTUL Gary

Have you asked your CPA to explain the charges?

Response:

Have you asked your CPA to explain the charges?

I asked his secretary since he wasn’t in. But your right, I should ask him! Thanks Gary

Response:

All most anyone can post to any book keeping program.  "Accounting program" is a misnomer IMHO, sitting on a tall oak stool with a green visor hand posting bills to ledgers is not accounting it is book keeping and that is what you do when you enter data into a book keeping program. Accounting is the knowledge used to create a chart of accounts that is suitable to the entity. Accounting is the knowledge used to ascertain an asset from an expense and the knowledge to garner some information from the data for decision making. How on earth can you justify the cost of book keep / accounting if you only use the data to pay taxes?

If you’re only using the data to pay taxes then you’re not using a lot of information that is available to you.  It’s kind of like using a scimitar to shave with.  Sure it’ll do the job, but it’s capable of so much more… — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

All most anyone can post to any book keeping program.  "Accounting program" is a misnomer IMHO, sitting on a tall oak stool with a green visor hand posting bills to ledgers is not accounting it is book keeping and that is what you do when you enter data into a book keeping program. Accounting is the knowledge used to create a chart of accounts that is suitable to the entity. Accounting is the knowledge used to ascertain an asset from an expense and the knowledge to garner some information from the data for decision making. How on earth can you justify the cost of book keep / accounting if you only use the data to pay taxes?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you figured out what an LLC is, knew how or why to choose that form of company, and were able to figure out how to create and file the correct forms, — then you will probably be able to figure out QuickBooks and learn how to set up the right chart of accounts, etc. You are obviously smart enough to find the right books on the subject, read the right newsgroups, etc., so you can probably do it on your own. In that case, I think QuickBooks is what you want.  On the other hand, there might still be someone in your area who can show you how to use QuickBooks and get you started, for a price that you are willing to pay. The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes.

Response:

As a business person some of my best producing assets are the persons who help to service my legal and accounting needs. My problem was in learning how to choose those who had the skills.  As my skills improved I made better choices. If you have a business you have a businnes plan, in writing or some where in your dreams. Interview professionals and make them explain what they can do for you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I, for one, totally agree with this guy [the original poster].  It doesn’t matter how much education an attorney or CPA has, if the services are not of sufficient value, the client won’t pay for them. Snip The problem is that the original poster assumed that all his future accounting, tax and legal needs will be a simple as filling out a form and sending in a check for 250.00. Okay.  Here is my two cents. It takes seven years of formal education to become a lawyer, it takes four or five years to become an accountant.  In addition to the direct cost of going to school there is the opportunity cost of the lost years of earning power while attending school.  If you can do it yourself, fine.  For those who can’t, those seeking our services, we expect to be compensated at the market rate. Snip The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes. …

Snip

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I, for one, totally agree with this guy [the original poster].  It doesn’t matter how much education an attorney or CPA has, if the services are not of sufficient value, the client won’t pay for them.  As a [non-practicing] CPA I continue to believe that 95% of the work I was trained to do can now be done just effectively by the taxpayer on his own (the other 5% being selected accounting and tax related matters).   Similarly, I simply do not believe that the $1,000 you pay an attorney for word processing services is a sensible expenditure.  I’ve done my own incorporations for years, had my clients do the same, and NOT ONCE in my career have I seen any adverse consequence of it (I must add, I have also seen situations where it made sense to hire an attorney for the incorporation, and in those instances I’ve recommended the client do so — but these are rare). The best solution is for those destined to be CPAs or attorneys to look to the future and recognize that there is going to be VERY limited demand for these kinds of services 10 years from now, and even moreso in 20 years.

The problem is that the original poster assumed that all his future accounting, tax and legal needs will be a simple as filling out a form and sending in a check for 250.00. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay.  Here is my two cents. It takes seven years of formal education to become a lawyer, it takes four or five years to become an accountant.  In addition to the direct cost of going to school there is the opportunity cost of the lost years of earning power while attending school.  If you can do it yourself, fine.  For those who can’t, those seeking our services, we expect to be compensated at the market rate. No one deserves or is entitled to a free lunch.  If I wish to donate my services, that is my decision.  No one has a right to them. The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes. … — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *   Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia       * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

If you figured out what an LLC is, knew how or why to choose that form of company, and were able to figure out how to create and file the correct forms, — then you will probably be able to figure out QuickBooks and learn how to set up the right chart of accounts, etc. You are obviously smart enough to find the right books on the subject, read the right newsgroups, etc., so you can probably do it on your own. In that case, I think QuickBooks is what you want.  On the other hand, there might still be someone in your area who can show you how to use QuickBooks and get you started, for a price that you are willing to pay.     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes.

Response:

I, for one, totally agree with this guy [the original poster].  It doesn’t matter how much education an attorney or CPA has, if the services are not of sufficient value, the client won’t pay for them.  As a [non-practicing] CPA I continue to believe that 95% of the work I was trained to do can now be done just effectively by the taxpayer on his own (the other 5% being selected accounting and tax related matters).   Similarly, I simply do not believe that the $1,000 you pay an attorney for word processing services is a sensible expenditure.  I’ve done my own incorporations for years, had my clients do the same, and NOT ONCE in my career have I seen any adverse consequence of it (I must add, I have also seen situations where it made sense to hire an attorney for the incorporation, and in those instances I’ve recommended the client do so — but these are rare). The best solution is for those destined to be CPAs or attorneys to look to the future and recognize that there is going to be VERY limited demand for these kinds of services 10 years from now, and even moreso in 20 years.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay.  Here is my two cents. It takes seven years of formal education to become a lawyer, it takes four or five years to become an accountant.  In addition to the direct cost of going to school there is the opportunity cost of the lost years of earning power while attending school.  If you can do it yourself, fine.  For those who can’t, those seeking our services, we expect to be compensated at the market rate. No one deserves or is entitled to a free lunch.  If I wish to donate my services, that is my decision.  No one has a right to them. The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes. … — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *   Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia       * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Okay.  Here is my two cents. It takes seven years of formal education to become a lawyer, it takes four or five years to become an accountant.  In addition to the direct cost of going to school there is the opportunity cost of the lost years of earning power while attending school.  If you can do it yourself, fine.  For those who can’t, those seeking our services, we expect to be compensated at the market rate. No one deserves or is entitled to a free lunch.  If I wish to donate my services, that is my decision.  No one has a right to them. The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes.

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *   Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia       * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

The "local, friendly accountant" and his "local, friendly lawyer" buddy suggested their services to set up an LLC & do the initial paperwork for $1000-1200.  (All the startup filings cost me under $250).  I didn’t even go further to inquire about on-going fees.  Nice guys, but they must have chanpagne tastes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use What did your accountant suggest? — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a service that is essential to meaningful books and accurate tax returns.  You can have a friend who thinks they know accounting show you for free or you can pay a professional. My violin is a delight because I paid a professional to teach me the basics.  I’d still be squeaking along if I hadn’t paid for that essential service.  I’m not ready for an audience, but I’m not driving my family nuts either. — Sincerely, Joanne

The above is an excellent comparative example. I’ve been involved in public accounting for just under 30 years.  I have a number of different software packages on my hard drive, including QB2000. I recently had reason to "encourage" a long term tax client to "clean up" his accounting records (His wife and bookkeeper – same person – had died and had not been replaced).  I brought in a highly qualified professional bookkeeper and asked her for help. Accounting software?  Whatever she is comfortable with. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

I agree A freind of mine just started a renovation business this year. I suggested find an accountant you can relate to. and I helped him post his income and expense to Quicken. Quicken is not a accounting program but as it works like a check book "an accounting moron" can use it. After a year or so you will know more about accounting and the sorting of income and expense in Quicken will create the background for the chart of accounts for an accounting program. AccPac Simply Accounting, MYOB or Quickbooks will all do what you want. Check your local tech schools for instruction in book keeping / software accounting. Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees

Check with your accountant re having these people sub-contract.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a service that is essential to meaningful books and accurate tax returns.  You can have a friend who thinks they know accounting show you for free or you can pay a professional. My violin is a delight because I paid a professional to teach me the basics.  I’d still be squeaking along if I hadn’t paid for that essential service.  I’m not ready for an audience, but I’m not driving my family nuts either. — Sincerely, Joanne The above is an excellent comparative example. I’ve been involved in public accounting for just under 30 years.  I have a number of different software packages on my hard drive, including QB2000. I recently had reason to "encourage" a long term tax client to "clean up" his accounting records (His wife and bookkeeper – same person – had died and had not been replaced).  I brought in a highly qualified professional bookkeeper and asked her for help. Accounting software?  Whatever she is comfortable with. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

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My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use

What did your accountant suggest? — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

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Sounds like a certain software application provider posts a question then answers it themselves. But really you may not need any computer accounting software if you run a hair salon. Cash in – checks out. Deposits equal income. Buy a payroll chart and spend one hour figuring the pay  - write checks based on it the next 26 or 52 times.  As far as tips go – well leave that to the hairdresses (no accounting program can help you there). Back into sales tax by dividing by 1.0XX. File all your returns manually. Or waste your time and your accountants and get a cheap make you feel good accounting program. Lots of Luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use Thanks. Les Wichtel

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QuickBooks is inexpensive, but you will have to learn how to use it, how to set up the right chart of accounts, etc.  When we started, we were completely clueless about accounting, didn’t know what a chart of accounts was, and didn’t know about asset accounts, liability accounts, "bank" accounts, depreciation, etc.  So, we put a lot of stuff in the wrong places and made a pretty big mess of it all. If you do get quickbooks, it would be a good idea to get someone to help set it up and show you how to use it.

This is a service that is essential to meaningful books and accurate tax returns.  You can have a friend who thinks they know accounting show you for free or you can pay a professional. My violin is a delight because I paid a professional to teach me the basics.  I’d still be squeaking along if I hadn’t paid for that essential service.  I’m not ready for an audience, but I’m not driving my family nuts either. — Sincerely, Joanne If it’s right for you, then it’s right, . . . . . for you!!! Play – http://www.jobird.com Pay for Play – http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm Looking for Love? – http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm

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I would suggest you engage the services of a competent and well recommended public accountant.  If for nothing else than to just start the books and explain what you need to do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use Thanks. Les Wichtel

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *                                                             * *   Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it.   * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia       * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

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QuickBooks is inexpensive, but you will have to learn how to use it, how to set up the right chart of accounts, etc.  When we started, we were completely clueless about accounting, didn’t know what a chart of accounts was, and didn’t know about asset accounts, liability accounts, "bank" accounts, depreciation, etc.  So, we put a lot of stuff in the wrong places and made a pretty big mess of it all. If you do get quickbooks, it would be a good idea to get someone to help set it up and show you how to use it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quickbooks is the obvious choice… My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use Thanks. Les Wichtel

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Quickbooks is the obvious choice…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use Thanks. Les Wichtel

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My appologies for cross-posting, but I’m not sure where to post this. I’m an accounting moron, but must set something up for my wife’s very small hair salon. I’d appreciate any recommendations for accounting software than can run under Win98SE. My goals are: Easy to use Not too exspensive Able to handle payroll / taxes for 5 employees Able to handle a small number of suppliers Easy to use Good help available  (in the software or " xxxx For Dummies"-type book) Easy to use Thanks. Les Wichtel

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Did you know that you could be making between $100 and $300 cash a day?

Question:

I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied. Thanks for your time, Matt Harris

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Two things to consider here.  When I started I was quite full of myself and didn’t feel that I should spend my time filing and being a gopher.  But almost all of us start out at the bottom and have to learn and work our way up to the top.  If you feel that they are just giving you busy work don’t be so sure.  Most new hires start with filing and shredding and move up after learning the ropes.  The real world is not the same as school. If however you are finding that you have an alot of free time on your hands, (I’m not sure which situation is the one you are describing), than they may want to know how much of a self starter you are.  Find things to do.  Study for the CPA or CMA exams.  Read the office procedure manuals.  Learn computer programs like excel, word, lotus, access.  Offer to help anyone and do anything.  If you offer to help someone and they give you filing to do say thanks and do it cheerfully.  Becoming one of the team is the most important task you may have right now to show your commitment. HTH,  Just my thoughts here I’m not sure if they apply in your case or not. Don   Regards,   Donald A Haney, MBA   Emergency Care Specialists, PC   "Learning occurs in the mind, independent of time and place." – Plato   I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional   accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first   actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first   experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full   time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was   wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and   keeping them occupied.   Thanks for your time,   Matt Harris —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –WebTV-Mail-28116-7089 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied. Thanks for your time, Matt Harris

Matt, Don Haney provided excellent advice in a prior post. I would like to add that my first experience was very difficult, partly because of the nature of public accounting, partly because of my own temperment, and partly because of the temperament of the people in the firm I chosen to work for. Based on my own experience and conversations I have had with my peers, I would say that accountants are not necessarily on the cutting edge when it comes to employee training and motivation. Jim Hudspeth, CPA Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied.

It will vary from firm to firm, and will be based on what they normally do.  However, in general, I would expect to see a lot of busy work up front and (depending on the size of the firm) a potential problem in coordinating the work you are doing with the training you would receive (there simply may not be a project currently available that "ties in" with what you are learning). But, as another reply notes, I would show an interest in helping on projects where you can.  Especially in smaller firms, the partners may be very busy with their own projects and might not immediately perceive that you are out of things to do (because nobody is in a position to be "full time" paying attention to staff development).  Also, you have access to lots of opportunites to improve yourself by learning what you can–take advantage of that fact.

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Most small firms do not have the ability for classroom type training, it is usually "hands on", "learn from your mistakes".  However, keep your self busy as mentioned in other posts, learn computer programs, study for the exam, read accounting journals and show an interest in everything. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied. Thanks for your time, Matt Harris [Image]

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Question:

Will someone please tell me what a burn rate is?  My boss wants the burn rate for our department by next Monday. I know it’s accounting related but I don’t want to look like a complete idiot and ask him what in the world he is talking about.  Thanks.  Mike

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I’ve never seen it used in an accounting sense. Have seen is used in aviation in terms of gallons or pounds of fuel used per hour.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Will someone please tell me what a burn rate is?  My boss wants the burn rate for our department by next Monday. I know it’s accounting related but I don’t want to look like a complete idiot and ask him what in the world he is talking about.  Thanks.  Mike

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I have heard it used as slang for the average amount spent (per task, or per a period of time) Like the burn rate of part x, is y amount of dollars per month. Also can be in managerial accounting for the number of parts per period, the burn rate is 450 widgets per month. Don’t know the ‘proper’ definition of it. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never seen it used in an accounting sense. Have seen is used in aviation in terms of gallons or pounds of fuel used per hour. Will someone please tell me what a burn rate is?  My boss wants the burn rate for our department by next Monday. I know it’s accounting related but I don’t want to look like a complete idiot and ask him what in the world he is talking about.  Thanks.  Mike

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Your boss is asking what the net negative cash flow is for your department. He wants to know what the sum of the expenses, not counting depreciation are?  He may or may not be interested in things like energy costs.  If you’re in an office the "burn rate" would be pretty close to payroll, if you’re a manufacturing plant, then you would include utilities, insurance and other "out of pocket" annual expenses.  When someone wants the burn rate, they usually are interested in a monthly average, but if its a hotel or nursing home for example, daily could be what they’re after. Wins

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Will someone please tell me what a burn rate is?  My boss wants the burn rate for our department by next Monday. I know it’s accounting related but I don’t want to look like a complete idiot and ask him what in the world he is talking about.  Thanks.  Mike

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Tell your boss you’ll have that for him as soon as he can give you the "estimated relative kindling report". Steph Will someone please tell me what a burn rate is?

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Question:

Can you close fiscal periods in QB Pro? How do you deal with an invoice that is dated for last month that comes in late but you do not want to change last month’s financials?? Is Peachtree or MYOB better at this??

QB allows posting to prior periods, but you can password-protect prior periods to prevent unintentional posting. I presume you mean a vendor’s invoice ("bill" in QB terminology).  If you want it recorded in the current period, you must enter it with a current date.  Same applies to any accounting software that I know.  You can override the default due-date, set it to any date you wish. Which software is "better" at this?  Depends on your preferences.  I’m satisfied with QB.

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Can you close fiscal periods in QB Pro?

No, except in the sense that you condense transactions for a year after the end of the second year. Yes in the sense that a password can stop someone from changing posts to a period. How do you deal with an invoice that is dated for last month that comes in late but you do not want to change last month’s financials??

Enter it this month, with a memo for the actual date. Is Peachtree or MYOB better at this??

I will let their users answer this. Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A. 954-566-7540, fax 7541 QuickBooks Prof. Advisor & Official #1 QB 6 Top Tester   biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news    275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33334

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Can you close fiscal periods in QB Pro? How do you deal with an invoice that is dated for last month that comes in late but you do not want to change last month’s financials?? Is Peachtree or MYOB better at this??

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Question:

Don’t you think that the American consumer derives the biggest benefit from public land use?  How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands? How much more would gasoline and heating oil and natural gas cost if we shut down wells on public land? While I agree that the resources are not properly managed and charged for, shutting out commercial use would cost all of us a lot of money. Ken GR GRThe solution to lowering debt isn’t to sell public lands, but to   GRrestructure policies so that timber and Oil, Gas & Mining (OGM) indus GRaren’t being subsidized for their exploitation of our public lands… GR GRIn 1992-94, the General Accounting Office reported that the U.S. Fore GRService spent nearly a billion dollars more on timber projects than i GRreceived in receipts from timber companies… GR GRMaybe its about time we focused the attn of our public lands on provi GRrecreation, rather than tree farms for the timber industry. GR GReric GR GR          ===== Armed with Visions…Defend the Earth===== GRChickadee’s Roosting Page http://envirolink.org/homepp/eric GRAllegheny Defense Project http://envirolink.org/orgs/allegheny GR GR"The most violent element in society is ignorance."    - Emma Goldman GR GR++++ Stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ GR++++ If you agree, copy these 3 sentences in your own sig ++++ GR++++ More info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/mumia002.htm ++++ GR GR GR GR  Makes too much sence. GR GRCrawdad GR — WinQwk 2.0 a#0

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says… Don’t you think that the American consumer derives the biggest benefit from public land use?

If some changes were made, they could.  How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands?

Since the public lands provide only about 15 per cent of the lumber, and wood is a declining input into buildings, I don’t think a house would cost much more.  There are plenty of substitutes for wood; many of them improvemets.  I am just having a metal roof put on to replace the wooden shingles.  It will save me money in the long run, and it will last longer. The major cost of a house is the interest rate. How much more would gasoline and heating oil and natural gas cost if we shut down wells on public land?

It seems to me that the price of oil is mostly determined by the world market price.  This depends mostly on events in the Middle East. While I agree that the resources are not properly managed and charged for, shutting out commercial use would cost all of us a lot of money. Ken

I agree that we should have commericial uses of the public lands, but we need some balance. Ralph Maughan Pocatello,Idaho

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How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands?

Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands? Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth.

…and open those strip mines But seriously, given the choice between cutting trees (which DO grow back, in case you didn’t know) and creating huge scars (open pit mines) which will NEVER be the same (at least not on any time scale relavant to humans), even with significant reclamation attempts, I’d pick cutting trees; it seems to me it has a lower impact on the ecosystem. Granted, I am for intelligent management of timber resources. OTOH, if the steel used for contruction is, say, from recycled cars, then go for it! But even that is not completely environmentally benign — remember, the energy to recycle the steel has to come from somewhere, most likely coal, causing more mines. Every choice has trade-offs. Jeff Gauvin, Design Engineer, Symbios Logic Inc.           *** Opinions are my own ***

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How much more do you think a house would cost (or your newspaper or magazine) if trees were not harvested from public lands? Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth.

        So maybe we should sell the portions of public lands which are little more than subsidized tree farms to the timber people, and get the government out of the lumber business;  let the market handle it.  Just do it slowly, so there isn’t a land rush.  Oh, and make sure we get good prices on that land. …and open those strip mines But seriously, given the choice between cutting trees (which DO grow back, in case you didn’t know) and creating huge scars (open pit mines) which will NEVER be the same (at least not on any time scale relavant to humans), even with significant reclamation attempts, I’d pick cutting trees; it seems to me it has a lower impact on the ecosystem. Granted, I am for intelligent management of timber resources.

        Pit mine scars can be restored in human lifetimes;  it’s been done in Ohio, for example.  It does take a lot of work, but that should be part of the price of using such mining methods. OTOH, if the steel used for contruction is, say, from recycled cars, then go for it! But even that is not completely environmentally benign — remember, the energy to recycle the steel has to come from somewhere, most likely coal, causing more mines.

        We’re starting to see recycled-wood products on the market, too, including for construction.  One of my favorites, published IIRC in Popular Science, was a synthetic lumber made from shredded recycled wood (from construction, old furniture, etc) bonded in some sort of polymer solution and surfaced with extremely thin real wood for appearance — the surface being bonded in with the polymer as well, so it wouldn’t wear off.  The stuff can be cut, nailed, drilled, stapled, and the like by present tools, is not subject to rot, has an insulation factor similar to plain wood, and includes fire-reatardent chemicals so that it is much harder to burn than plain wood. Every choice has trade-offs.

        Even so;  there is pollution from the process.  But it is a start.                         one of God’s peculiar< people      "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God’s peculiar people."                           — the Apostle Peter (KJV)

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      – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paper companies grow the vast majority of their wood on their own land in a nice, free market, non-corp welfare type operation.  BTW replacing structual wood with steel is at or past the break even point, but the construction tech. are different which is causing resistance among home builders. Robert Posey Close the old growth. …and open those strip mines But seriously, given the choice between cutting trees (which DO grow back, in case you didn’t know) and creating huge scars (open pit mines) which will NEVER be the same (at least not on any time scale relavant to humans), even with significant reclamation attempts, I’d pick cutting trees; it seems to me it has a lower impact on the ecosystem. Granted, I am for intelligent management of timber resources.

Wood may seem preferable because it is a renewable resource, but I guess I should say it is a "potentially" renewable resource. Much of the forestry in the interior Western United States would be better described as "timber mining", putting lumber in the same category as coal, steel, and copper.  In other words, they cut trees faster than they grow back and they manage for logging, lands that have a higher value for water- shed, esthetics, wildlife, livestock grazing, etc.. OTOH, if the steel used for contruction is, say, from recycled cars, then go for it! But even that is not completely environmentally benign — remember, the energy to recycle the steel has to come from somewhere, most likely coal, causing more mines. Every choice has trade-offs.

This is true as long as one realizes that the terms of the trade-off are often obviously in favor of one side of the trade. As I posted earlier, from now "metal roofs for me" and a bias in favor of construction materials other than wood. Most people the world do not live in wooden structures, and in North American fewer people live in them as time goes by. Ralph Maughan Pocatello, Idaho

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   So maybe we should sell the portions of public lands which are little more than subsidized tree farms to the timber people, and get the government out of the lumber business;  let the market handle it.  Just do it slowly, so there isn’t a land rush.  Oh, and make sure we get good prices on that land. …and open those strip mines

Living in SW Montana I have on several occasions "benefitted" from private land ownership.  The new thing in this part of the country seems to be attempts to close off public accesses by newly arrived Hollywood ranchers.  They can do this with relative impunity, as the maximum allowable fine for doing this illegally, under state law, is $10 per day – chump change for the people who can afford to buy these places to start with.  Given this behavior, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what would happen to public access if the forest lands themselves come under private ownership.  And don’t forget about BLM lands as well. If the current attempts to sell off our lands succeed, the entire west will become a true rich man’s playground.  It will still be nice to look at, only you’ll be trespassing if you get 50 feet from your car.  Anyone who uses the outdoors – from 4 wheelers to backpackers – should be aware that if this comes to pass, there will be nothing left to fight about as we’ll ALL be locked out.

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