Question:

On 19 Jul 2004 15:09:18 GMT, fern5…@aol.com (Fern5827) wrote: >FIRST Amendment, Cain.

The First does not give you the right to break the law. So tell us, if someone gives legal advice who is proscribed from doing so, are they protected by the First Amendment? You live in a state where it is illegal to give legal advice. You advised someone, wiht nothing more than one simple unadorned sentence, to deny entry to a police officer in an investigation. That constitutes legal advice. I advise you…and it’s not legal advice…to make a thorough retraction really PDQ, Buttercup, or your ass is in rather deep Fertilizer should anyone decide your behavior is actionable in your state. >But of course freedom of speech is anathema to the likes of you.

On the contrary..the "likes" of me believes that without The First Amendment I might not be able to point out your lies, stupidity, and very-dangerous-to-parents advice you give so freely here, without regard to the risk to others you might be creating. You abuse the right, thus risking it. All who abuse it risk it for the rest of us, just as those that misuse firearms attract those that would try and do away with the 2nd amendment and its meaning, thus risking that right for those of us who exercise it. Same with all our rights under the law. The lawless risk our safety and even attack the law itself by breaking it. You are Pond Scum, another form of Vegetation. And you gave patently obvious legal advice…dangerous advice at that. I suggest you reconnect with the poster and clarify those circumstances when it might be POSSIBLE to refuse entry, and the safest was to do so in their state…..go GET THE FRIGGIN’ LAW AND MAKE SURE, AND BETTER YET PAY AN ATTORNEY TO INTERPRET IT FOR YOU. You going to clean up your shitty mess, or continue to try and hide it under the rug by attacking me? >http://www.txcfr.org   TX group for even unfairly accused fosters.

Anybody that is "accused" seems to be "unfairly" done so, to you and yours, Potatohead. Are you really this Nuts? Kane

Response:

On 17 Jul 2004 12:35:27 -0700, Gree…@hotmail.com (Greg Hanson) wrote: >Kane wrote >> You could also be open for civil suit should >> a homeowner refuse entry and be hurt in the >> process. >A legal opinion from Kane saying >that somebody elses legal opinion >is illegal to disseminate?  Ha!

Excuse me, idiot boy, but can "bring suit" for absolutly any cockamamee reason they want in this country. THAT, was not legal "advice." I did not tell The Plant to DO anything, but to STOP doing something. >By that same logic, a parent who >totally rolls over when caseworkers >come to their door could sue you!   Naa!

Of course they could, but it NOT the "same logic" at all. To tell someone to refuse entry to an LEO IS legal advice. And you’ll notice, R R R R R, idiot boy, that at NO point did I suggest the homeowner "role over" to a caseworker….as in "go see your lawyer." Is THAT what you think rolling over is? What must the homeowner do for it to NOT be a rollover…..assault the LEO? >> You aren’t hard to trace down should >> someone wish to. I understand a certain >> public figure in the entertainment >> industry’s people know who and were >> you are. Probably just rumor. >Or intestinal gas.

It’s estimated that on average everyone emits intestinal gas about 11 to 12 times a day. Even the beautiful people. The difference between us and YOU, is that we get up and move away by going to work and actually doing something with our lives, rather than stalk single mothers wish children. >Have you found a way to bottle it and >save it on your shelf along with your >yellow jars and little brown balls you rolled?

I have no such obsessions. Is THAT what you are doing with all that spare time you have? May I suggest gardening? You have more than enough fertilizer for a great start. And if you run out I recommend you contact Douggie and The Plant. They’ve enough for a hundred gardens. Then of course there is – R R R R R – bobb the Bigot and his raft of shit. Greegor, as a Flamer, yer a Lamer. Kane

Response:

FIRST Amendment, Cain. But of course freedom of speech is anathema to the likes of you. http://www.txcfr.org   TX group for even unfairly accused fosters.

Response:

"Kane" <pohakuyakok…@subdimension.com> wrote in message

news:7ed8d1be.0407171343.ba7a4b3@posting.google.com… > It’s estimated that on average everyone emits intestinal gas about 11 > to 12 times a day. Even the beautiful people.

Class, now pay attention, obviously this Kane Asshole knows what it is talking about. Mrs. Grif.

Response:

Kane, I have read at least one high court opinion very noteable for ALLOWING advocates to dispense legal advice without acting as an attorney. The LOUSY state of affairs with public defenders doing the JUDAS act is widely known and some of this has become caselaw. It was either about Suzanne Shell or part of the caselaw that Suzanne Shell used to defend herself. Basically, anybody can do legal research, it would be just plain unAmerican to tell people that they could not research it or tell what they had found.  This is NOT the same as pretending to be an attorney. Somebody once posted that early Americans actually prohibited Barristers (Lawyers) from flooding into the new world. Barristers/Lawyers were much hated even then. Do you think Abraham Lincoln ever had to go to law school or pass a BAR EXAM before he practiced law? I highly doubt that the US Constitution was meant to stifle grass roots efforts to understand our laws, now convoluted beyond even the abilities of barristers. Despite that old expression that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." now’days it is sort of a nonsense comment.  It takes a giant COMPUTER to track "the law" and all of the corrolaries, caselaw, precedent, etc. The Judge in the decision I refer to above could not get around the value of such research and advocacy. Put even simpler, it seemed like the CPS and their attorneys were being GIANT CRYBABIES in trying to pretend that providing legal research was in fact providing legal advice. It was a desperate tactic used by desperate prosecutors. In another case CPS actually PROTESTED in court that an advocate group had helped a mother find a home and a job! (As if it was somehow UNFAIR!) The Judge was not happy with CPS that day. Prosecutors do often try some pathetic tactics.

Response:

On 18 Jul 2004 16:31:54 -0700, Gree…@hotmail.com (Greg Hanson) wrote: >Kane, >I have read at least one high court opinion >very noteable for ALLOWING advocates to dispense >legal advice without acting as an attorney.

Then cite and post please. For some reason I have trouble taking your word for things. >The LOUSY state of affairs with public defenders >doing the JUDAS act is widely known and some >of this has become caselaw.

Boy, this Plant just told someone to refuse entry to police officer. Not that may NOT result in any untoward outcomes, but would YOU want to follow that advice, without first taking to an attorney in your state, or at the very least looking up the statutes in your state and county, as well as city, to see just what a police officers choices are in such matters? The Plant seems perfectly willing, as usual, and as YOU do, to dispense advice or misleading information that could result in very serious consequences for those taking that advice or using that information. >It was either about Suzanne Shell or part of >the caselaw that Suzanne Shell used to defend herself.

R R R R …. Exactly my point. >Basically, anybody can do legal research,

Yes, and that IS what I recommended. The Plant said to refuse entry to a police officer. And said this what NO caveats whatsoever, leaving the reader, or who ever It was responding to, to assume it is possible to do this regardless of the circumstances at the time of the events. >it >would be just plain unAmerican to tell people >that they could not research it or tell what >they had found.  This is NOT the same as >pretending to be an attorney.

Please point out were I told someone not to research. In fact I did exactly the opposite, you fuckin’ mindless parasite. I told them NOT to take advice from a pack of self serving sick little fucks like you on the Web, and go get REAL legal advice, and REAL information. You want to defend telling them to refuse entry to a police officer, be my guest, but know that you place OTHERS in jeapordy by such advice. >Somebody once posted that early Americans >actually prohibited Barristers (Lawyers) from >flooding into the new world. >Barristers/Lawyers were much hated even then.

Now there’s a usual piece of information for 2004 decision making. >Do you think Abraham Lincoln ever had >to go to law school or pass a BAR EXAM >before he practiced law?

There are, I believe, about 6 states, that still allow for NOT attending an accredited college of law and take the bar exam. Preparation, as A. Lincoln did, is called "Reading the Law." It is usually done, I’m told, by actually working in a law office, likely as a clerk or para, and then taking the bar. My understand was there was no such thing as a bar exam in Lincolns time but he met the criteria common to all in those days. Just as todays ambitious want to be legal beagles must. But that isn’t the issue. The Plant has NO "Reading the Law" experience It has shared with us, and the perfect example of It’s ignorance is posted from time to time here, and THIS example was a perfect one. An advice to refuse entry to a police officer. >I highly doubt that the US Constitution >was meant to stifle grass roots efforts to >understand our laws,

Nope. You are free to study the Constituion however you wish. Go read it. You have 24 hours to prepare for a quiz. >now convoluted beyond >even the abilities of barristers.

No, Constitution is anything but convoluted. I has hardly changed except for some additions that were a natural outgrowth of an evolving society of humans. >Despite that old expression that "Ignorance >of the law is no excuse." now’days it >is sort of a nonsense comment.  

No, it isn’t. That still stands as fact. Ignorance will NOT excuse you from charges. It might help you in court. You see, assbrain, you and The Plant and some others who have haunted this ng from time to time have spouted tons of garbage on legal issues, failing to even discriminate between the branches of government…constantly mixing up their duties and responsibilities to spread your whining complaining stupid shit around. The law of the land in THIS country is a wonderfully fine and simple document….The United States Constitution. I’ll bet you’ve never even read it through, including the BOR and the rest of the amendments, now  have you? >It takes a >giant COMPUTER to track "the law" and all >of the corrolaries, caselaw, precedent, etc.

Yer babbling, as usual. Go to a law library. People on foot will go to the stacks for you and pull out exactly what you are looking for without resorting to a computer. There sometimes is a small fee for copying. The attempts to make the law complicated are typical of jailhouse lawyers, those guilty of crimes, caught or not, that want to avoid the simple facts in the law. Start standing around little naked girls taking showers again and watch what happens to you, dummy. >The Judge in the decision I refer to above >could not get around the value of such >research and advocacy.

There is no case mentioned "above." What ARE you babbling about again? Stop snipping attributions and maybe you’d make some sense. >Put even simpler, it seemed like the CPS >and their attorneys were being GIANT CRYBABIES >in trying to pretend that providing legal >research was in fact providing legal advice.

Totally incoherent garbage. I know of nothing in this thread that would explain you mumbling whine. >It was a desperate tactic used by >desperate prosecutors.

What case are you referring to? You’ve completely obscured any case by NOT citing the previous posts that have that content. I will not discuss a case with you unless you actually have the prior referances to it so I know WHICH fuckin’ case you are talking about. Other people have lives, couch croucher, and haven’t time to keep with five or six of you babblers and your subject matter. >In another case CPS actually PROTESTED >in court that an advocate group had >helped a mother find a home and a job!

Citation please, and source access. >(As if it was somehow UNFAIR!) >The Judge was not happy with CPS that day.

How do YOU know they though it unfair, other than from the opinion of some asshole anti CPS freak? >Prosecutors do often try some pathetic tactics.

Prosecutors try lots of things, inluding the truth about shitheels such as you. You are one of the luckiest fuckers in Iowa to have gotten away with what you did. Now you are doing the con number, trying to deflect people from YOUR viscous treatement of a child and her mother. Go fuck yourself, asshole. Because of your innate dishonesty, and weaselly tactics I’ve had to do your work for you, and so I’ve pasted the post you are responding to below. You are a very serious passive agressive, aren’t you, asshole, in addition to being a narcissistic twit. Kane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -pohakuyakok…@subdimension.com (Kane) wrote in message <news:7ed8d1be.0407171143.7779cfd8@posting.google.com>… > On 17 Jul 2004 12:18:33 -0700, Gree…@hotmail.com (Greg Hanson) > wrote: > >Fern wrote > >> >> Do not admit to home.  Grounds for lawsuits later. > >Kane wrote > >> > You just gave legal advice. That’s illegal in your state. > >Is that your legal opinion, Kane? > Nope, just an opinion. My own lawyer told me so. > >  Legal in your state? > To tell someone not to give legal advice….sure. Is it legal to give > legal advice in your state if you are not a lawyer? If not, don’t do > it. It’s not in The Plant’s. > >Next you’ll be saying that reading of the Constitution > >is only for properly trained individuals to interpret, right? > Why would I say that? Can’t imagine me doing anything so stupid, but > you, on the other hand, might just be stupid enough to encourage The > Plant to NOT actually site the constitution and just babble. > It did not say "here is the law" or "go find out what the law is in > your state." Instead it risked THE OTHER PERSON’S SAFETY AND CHILD AND > FAMILY. See why I am such a millstone around the collective neck of > you evil vicious thugs? > Now take a look at that sentence of It’s. > It says: > "Do not admit to home.  Grounds for lawsuits later." > The first sentence provides NO caveat…such as "unless…etc….." > And there one hell of a lot of "unless" and "etc." when a sworn law > enforcement officer presents him or herself at your door and requests > entry. > The correct, and NON-legal advice should be, "ask politely if the > officer has a warrant to serve to to see it." I think even the nutso > anti government anit cps crusader organizations know to do that. > Now look at the next sentence. "Grounds for lawsuit later." > The Brazil Nut doesn’t have the slighest idea of what constitutes > grounds for a lawsuit. …. especially in that the homehomer cannot > know, while reading that piece of LEGAL ADVICE, if such a situation > will even present itself. > Do YOU know the kind of advice Ruth and Brian Christine got…..and > that their chidren are being raise by their parents now, and both are > in jail for many years because of BAD FUCKIN’ LEGAL ADVICE? And Brian > damn near murdered someone, because of BAD FUCKIN’ LEGAL ADVICE? > That is EXACTLY what nailed them. > >All hail the priesthood of the law. > Sonny, you couldn’t drive three blocks and not get killed without "the > priesthood of the law."  The traffic laws require enforcment to work, > legislation to determine them, and a judicial to apply sanctions > against having broken them. > What system would YOU suggest to replace LAW? > Law are nothing more than the rules we make between us to stay alive, > less injured, and have much more fun…like being able to work for a > living and be responsible for oursel…..oppps! Sorry. I forgot about > you and your "situation." > >The modern Pharisees who paid Judas to maintain their power. > Please point out how my suggesting that The Plant NOT

… read more »

Response:

Fern wrote > >> Do not admit to home.  Grounds for lawsuits later.

Kane wrote > > You just gave legal advice. That’s illegal in your state.

Is that your legal opinion, Kane?  Legal in your state? Next you’ll be saying that reading of the Constitution is only for properly trained individuals to interpret, right? All hail the priesthood of the law. The modern Pharisees who paid Judas to maintain their power.

Response:

Kane wrote > You could also be open for civil suit should > a homeowner refuse entry and be hurt in the > process.

A legal opinion from Kane saying that somebody elses legal opinion is illegal to disseminate?  Ha! By that same logic, a parent who totally rolls over when caseworkers come to their door could sue you!   Naa! > You aren’t hard to trace down should > someone wish to. I understand a certain > public figure in the entertainment > industry’s people know who and were > you are. Probably just rumor.

Or intestinal gas. Have you found a way to bottle it and save it on your shelf along with your yellow jars and little brown balls you rolled?

Response:

On 17 Jul 2004 12:18:33 -0700, Gree…@hotmail.com (Greg Hanson) wrote: >Fern wrote >> >> Do not admit to home.  Grounds for lawsuits later. >Kane wrote >> > You just gave legal advice. That’s illegal in your state. >Is that your legal opinion, Kane?

Nope, just an opinion. My own lawyer told me so. >  Legal in your state?

To tell someone not to give legal advice….sure. Is it legal to give legal advice in your state if you are not a lawyer? If not, don’t do it. It’s not in The Plant’s. >Next you’ll be saying that reading of the Constitution >is only for properly trained individuals to interpret, right?

Why would I say that? Can’t imagine me doing anything so stupid, but you, on the other hand, might just be stupid enough to encourage The Plant to NOT actually site the constitution and just babble. It did not say "here is the law" or "go find out what the law is in your state." Instead it risked THE OTHER PERSON’S SAFETY AND CHILD AND FAMILY. See why I am such a millstone around the collective neck of you evil vicious thugs? Now take a look at that sentence of It’s. It says: "Do not admit to home.  Grounds for lawsuits later." The first sentence provides NO caveat…such as "unless…etc….." And there one hell of a lot of "unless" and "etc." when a sworn law enforcement officer presents him or herself at your door and requests entry. The correct, and NON-legal advice should be, "ask politely if the officer has a warrant to serve to to see it." I think even the nutso anti government anit cps crusader organizations know to do that. Now look at the next sentence. "Grounds for lawsuit later." The Brazil Nut doesn’t have the slighest idea of what constitutes grounds for a lawsuit. …. especially in that the homehomer cannot know, while reading that piece of LEGAL ADVICE, if such a situation will even present itself. Do YOU know the kind of advice Ruth and Brian Christine got…..and that their chidren are being raise by their parents now, and both are in jail for many years because of BAD FUCKIN’ LEGAL ADVICE? And Brian damn near murdered someone, because of BAD FUCKIN’ LEGAL ADVICE? That is EXACTLY what nailed them. >All hail the priesthood of the law.

Sonny, you couldn’t drive three blocks and not get killed without "the priesthood of the law."  The traffic laws require enforcment to work, legislation to determine them, and a judicial to apply sanctions against having broken them. What system would YOU suggest to replace LAW? Law are nothing more than the rules we make between us to stay alive, less injured, and have much more fun…like being able to work for a living and be responsible for oursel…..oppps! Sorry. I forgot about you and your "situation." >The modern Pharisees who paid Judas to maintain their power.

Please point out how my suggesting that The Plant NOT give legal advice, and my personal advice to the inquirer that he or she DO seek competent legal advice equates to that nonsense … Or could it just be we are all being treated <sigh> once again, to a segue into YOUR particularly sordid mess that destroyed a loving family by YOUR actions and that mother’s stupid choice to take YOU over her own daughter? Kane

Response:

On 15 Jul 2004 13:27:30 -0700, Kane <pohakuyakok…@subdimension.com>   wrote: > On 15 Jul 2004 18:47:27 GMT, fern5…@aol.com (Fern5827) wrote: >> http://www.profane-justice.org/html/faq.html#letcwin >> Do not admit to home.  Grounds for lawsuits later.  . > You just gave legal advice. That’s illegal in your state. > In court you could plead insanity though. Write it down so you don’t > forget.

Eyy, eyy ninnyboy. — Just Say NO to Miss Information

Response:

On 15 Jul 2004 18:47:27 GMT, fern5…@aol.com (Fern5827) wrote: >http://www.profane-justice.org/html/faq.html#letcwin >Do not admit to home.  Grounds for lawsuits later.  .

You just gave legal advice. That’s illegal in your state.   In court you could plead insanity though. Write it down so you don’t forget. You could also be open for civil suit should a homeowner refuse entry and be hurt in the process. You aren’t hard to trace down should someone wish to. I understand a certain public figure in the entertainment industry’s people know who and were you are. Probably just rumor. >Be polite

Sure, yah ol’ dingbat. Doug uses that ploy all the time. Me, I’m anything but polite because I’m not a smarmy liar that needs to con people to put out my public claims and rebuttals. I want to make SURE no one buys what I say because I’m "nice." I want them to THINK….of course I gave up on Yew long long ago. Stick it, Pinenut. Polite enough for yah? >http://www.profane-justice.org     Colorado Website of Suzanne Shell.  Early >advocate for families against DHS, DSS.

Never ever seek advice from such sources as above until you have thoroughly investigated them and their principals and, principles. Legal advice should come from a legal source. The statutes, the prior case law findings, and lawyers to interpret. NOT THESE yahoos. Not even lawyers on staff or retainer with them if they are not in your state….and I’d suggest you check out their record of wins, and failures in any case, just because you can and you should. It’s YOUR family. YOU care about it far more than any of them could. That said, on to the subject, Salvia vulgaris: The homeowner better not stop the cop from entering and bringing the social worker if the cop has even the slightest suspicion…like a neighbor says they heard child screams… of a crime in progress. It’s called "probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion" and it’s put some folks behind bars that tried that nonsense of denying entry you suggest, Sugatsuga enflorescence. EVEN WHEN THERE WAS NO CRIME IN PROGESS and the cop was mistaken. The cop is not required to be RIGHT, (that would be kind of stupid in the crime stopping business) but only required to have reasonable cause for suspicion…and they know exactly how to do that…and make it stick. He or she can even hurt you to gain entry, or shoot you dead dead dead on reasonable grounds of believing him or herself or another at risk of serious bodily harm of fatal injury. So if "not letting them in" should escalate to the use of physical force by the homeowner..well, you figure it out. These terms I use vary from state to state…you need to look up yours if you have a serious concern you might find a police officer at your door requesting entry. Addressing the correspondent of The Plant: Walk softly if a cop shows up with the worker. Know your LEGAL rights, not the garbage peddled by these nitwits. Most cops are kindly disposed to parents, being parents themselves most often…but they are NOT kindly disposed to abusers.  Make sure you don’t look like or act like one. And MY legal advice is……NOTHING AT ALL….just call your attorney and ask someone authorized to give legal advice. If you have a question like this one The Plant tries to mislead you about, get you to your lawyers office NOW and ask what your options are. This ng (and the one I’ll crosspost to that is the one this should have been in) can be the best and the worst of places to seek information and help. We have pimps and shills for anti CPS crusader groups that will sell your ass and your children for a drop of blood to lubricate the wheels of their strange machines. We have self admitted (but they deny it) child abusers and gigolos who will encourage you to do the WORST possible things you could do in protecting yourself and your kids from unwarranted CPS interventions or retrieving your children from state custody should that be needed. We have had people here, and there’s no accounting for their return or not, that have urged others to, and claimed they would, shoot, poison, and or, inject illegal materials on computers, and even bomb CPS buildings with clients – parents and children in the way of harm. We call all these, nutcases, and you won’t run short of them in these ngs. On the other hand, we also have a small contingent of people that have learned the CPS system, know very well how to deal with issues with CPS successfully. Actually I think the number is probably less than three at this time, though some foster parents that come here can also give pretty good info. The former, the nutsos, have had NO successes in getting findings reversed or children returned from state custody that they posted here, while the latter have had, Dan Sullivan more than any, a phenomenal success record in doing both, and in some instances we’ve gotten to watch the progress of these cases right here in the ng. And The Plant called Fern? R R R R R…. Be warned. This is someone that so hates children that It excuses even murder of children by parents, with beatings and torture supported and even promoted as reasonable under the US Constitution and something It calls, a Parent’s Liberty Interest in Raising Their Children. goggle It in the archives and see. It lies in it’s posting’s subject lines. It makes claims that are easily proven false, but will NOT back down from dangerous advice that goes with such nonsense. In fact, I consider it an enemy of families as well…as it frequently in past years up to the present, has tried to send folks down exactly the wrong path into the swamp. It shills endlessly for blood dancers that, if you fail and lose your children, they have something to crusade about, and somemore lubrication for their wheels. Study the Christine case to learn how they work. It’s a model in what NOT to do. Now It will, of course, stupidly attempt to deflect attention, probably by claiming slander…when I have NO idea what IT’s real name is. If you aren’t in trouble and don’t really need help, you might find this place entertaining by way of studying the human condition and the machinations of some of our more, shall we say, "troubled" citizens. You asked a legal question. Get legal advice. Best of luck to you. Kane

Response:

Question:

Hi Miki, I feel like a failure too. Or maybe loser is a better word. Except that I didn’t really lose so much as refuse to play the game. But is that really such a bad thing, considering the game? The rat race, all that…. Loser power! I say, loser pride! I say. Remember this quote? "The salvation of the world lies with the maladjusted." Martin Luther King. May I ask why you stopped writing? Katie "Miki Kocic" <viathnasanss…@sympatico.ca> a

Question:

–I have narrowed my career choices to three fields I think I would –enjoy, and accounting is one. So, now I am seeking some opinions and –answers  :) — –Do you enjoy your job? Better than most, not as good as winning the lotto and managing your investments –Work alot of hours? Depends, usually yes during tax season –Make decent money(I am in tampa) ? Decent?? yes, especially if you get with a decent company that has good benefits –Is the CPA good for all 50 states, Most yes — All, not sure –Job Prospects? Always something available, better than some professions in terms of consistent demand (engineering comes to mind) –Would you do it again? Probably,,, maybe law if had to do again, but thats only a maybe,

Response:

–Do you enjoy your job?

There are many fields n Accounting namely, corporate finance, corporate mangement, audting, tax..etc etc..you might want to look into it… To tell you the truth, I think most CPAs agree. Alot of CPAs when they audit other people’s businesses, they see how well other business are doing.. how well of a finance director earns.. they live in their fantasy… When they drive home afterwork, and realize how little he makes each year…. well, you get the picture.. –Work alot of hours?

Hell, yes. 6 days a week, and O/T is the norm for tax season. Again it depends on which field. –Make decent money(I am in tampa) ?

Hell! no! The number of hours/pay is much lower than.. hmm.. let’s say a hairdresser…. anyway, it is s good career when you are young and have no personal attachments (family and girlfriend) and mind you that there is the CPA exam materials or you to study at home..after work bed. Big 4 finishes at 12pm -1am. –Is the CPA good for all 50 states

in fact, most countires, if american economy reamins good. There are alot of positions in China at the moment. –Job Prospects?

Depends. If you are engaged in the wrong field of accounting at the very start of your career, it is damn hard to switch to the other areas… –Would you do it again?

I would do law. Becasue accounting degree wasnt even relatively easy and I earn much less.

Response:

good advice, paul. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have narrowed my career choices to three fields I think I would enjoy, and accounting is one.  So, now I am seeking some opinions and answers  :) Do you enjoy your job? Yes, but it’s not a job, it’s my career and my business. Work alot of hours? Depends.  On the time of the year mostly, but in general, working for myself, I can come and go as __ I __ please, given the constraints of meeting the clients needs. Make decent money(I am in tampa) ? All my bils are paid (I am in Athens, GA) Is the CPA good for all 50 states, or like Law, have to ber certified in each state? Do you plan to work in all 50 states? Most states offer a reciprocal license, so if I were to get an Alabama license all I would probably have to do is send them a check.  Now, this does not preclude me from preparing an Alabama return for a client, and most likely wouldn’t keep me from compiling or even reviewing financial statements for a client from Alabama. I’m pretty sure that the rules change if you plan to actually perform work in another state. Job Prospects? In this economy?  Accounting jobs fluxuate with the job market like all other jobs, but you can always find a different job with an accounting degree (like a management or finance position) where you can’t get many accouting jobs with a marketing degree. Would you do it again? Knowing what I know now, I’d just buy last weeks winning lottery ticket. But, yes.  It’s been one fun ride, all things being equal. But, you are asking all the wrong questions to people who can’t choose your destiny.  You need to ask yourself if you really, truly like the kind of work that an accounting degree may lead to.  If you like it, and have a passion for it, you’ll do well in this profession.  If you don’t, you won’t be able to keep a job. So, find what you love to do, and do it well. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia

Response:

I have narrowed my career choices to three fields I think I would enjoy, and accounting is one. So, now I am seeking some opinions and answers  :) Do you enjoy your job?

I really enjoy accounting and auditing work when it was available. I never cared for tax work. Work alot of hours?

Not now, as the hours have not been available as the economy has de-industrialized. The only area I’ve heard that has been going well is tax, right in there between H&R Block on the low end, and the tax lawyers on the high end. Make decent money(I am in tampa) ?

Not really. The really big average income in accounting was before the general availability of penicillin. Is the CPA good for all 50 states, or like Law, have to ber certified in each state?

No.  You have to rely on the state giving you a license under reciprocity. Even with the 150 hour standard, many states are loath to issue a license to an out of state CPA with out them doing qualifying work under a state CPA. Job Prospects?

If you analyze what an accountant does and what other industrial segments they rely on for work, it is pretty hard to see a bright future. Would you do it again?

If I knew then what I know now, probably not. I probably would have opted for Electrical Engineer specializing in digital / medical, with an evening MBA a couple years after graduation. Incidentally, I don’t think this is a hot prospect now has there is a glut of EEs who can move in to it if it starts to get hot. It is important to do what you like.  Just remember the need for people to shoe horses is limited. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * * Unemployed for seven years, mistake of being an accountant. * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

like other careers you can get burnt out, most accountants start out in public accounting but end up working in various capacities in private companies – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have narrowed my career choices to three fields I think I would enjoy, and accounting is one. So, now I am seeking some opinions and answers  :) Do you enjoy your job? Work alot of hours? Make decent money(I am in tampa) ? Is the CPA good for all 50 states, or like Law, have to ber certified in each state? Job Prospects? Would you do it again?

Response:

I have narrowed my career choices to three fields I think I would enjoy, and accounting is one.  So, now I am seeking some opinions and answers  :) Do you enjoy your job?

Yes, but it’s not a job, it’s my career and my business. Work alot of hours?

Depends.  On the time of the year mostly, but in general, working for myself, I can come and go as __ I __ please, given the constraints of meeting the clients needs. Make decent money(I am in tampa) ?

All my bils are paid (I am in Athens, GA) Is the CPA good for all 50 states, or like Law, have to ber certified in each state?

Do you plan to work in all 50 states? Most states offer a reciprocal license, so if I were to get an Alabama license all I would probably have to do is send them a check.  Now, this does not preclude me from preparing an Alabama return for a client, and most likely wouldn’t keep me from compiling or even reviewing financial statements for a client from Alabama. I’m pretty sure that the rules change if you plan to actually perform work in another state. Job Prospects?

In this economy?  Accounting jobs fluxuate with the job market like all other jobs, but you can always find a different job with an accounting degree (like a management or finance position) where you can’t get many accouting jobs with a marketing degree. Would you do it again?

Knowing what I know now, I’d just buy last weeks winning lottery ticket. But, yes.  It’s been one fun ride, all things being equal. But, you are asking all the wrong questions to people who can’t choose your destiny.  You need to ask yourself if you really, truly like the kind of work that an accounting degree may lead to.  If you like it, and have a passion for it, you’ll do well in this profession.  If you don’t, you won’t be able to keep a job. So, find what you love to do, and do it well. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia

Response:

I have narrowed my career choices to three fields I think I would enjoy, and accounting is one. So, now I am seeking some opinions and answers  :) Do you enjoy your job? Work alot of hours? Make decent money(I am in tampa) ? Is the CPA good for all 50 states, or like Law, have to ber certified in each state? Job Prospects? Would you do it again?

Response:

Question:

Somewhere in a previous thread in this group, someone (was it you?) mentioned that the CMA credential is quickly gaining in popularity outside the US.  As someone intimately familiar with US accounting yet residing outside of the US, I figured you were the person to ask this.  Is the CMA becoming the ‘international credential’ that was being pushed here in the US not too long ago?  In your opinion, would the CMA credential be a boon to someone seeking employment with large multi-national business or in globalized industries (petroleum for example)?  In that scenario, would you rate is as carrying more preference than a US CPA or equal?  Or is it still given less weight even in those circumstances? — Todd Stephens

Response:

For people who don’t want to go through public accounting, CMA is very attractive in the corporate multinational environment. I also saw a reference to it in at least one emerging country auditor site which suggest some weight attached to it outside of the US.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The CMA is a very good program directed to industrial/commercial accounting rather than public accounting. Its genesis is the RIA ‘registered industrial accountant’ which focused on cost accounting. The modern program is much broader. Somewhere in a previous thread in this group, someone (was it you?) mentioned that the CMA credential is quickly gaining in popularity outside the US.  As someone intimately familiar with US accounting yet residing outside of the US, I figured you were the person to ask this.  Is the CMA becoming the ‘international credential’ that was being pushed here in the US not too long ago?  In your opinion, would the CMA credential be a boon to someone seeking employment with large multi-national business or in globalized industries (petroleum for example)?  In that scenario, would you rate is as carrying more preference than a US CPA or equal?  Or is it still given less weight even in those circumstances? — Todd Stephens

Response:

I’ll speak for my region (Egypt and some countries in the Middleeast), foreigners especially those from the US, Canada, UK when working for a multinational petroleum company, big 5, Banking firm, they occupy senior postions like managing director even sometimes the CEO, so a designation by itself isn’t enough. They look more on the quality of his experience rather than the designation he holds. An MBA will suite you better in such a case. The CPA is still more preferable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somewhere in a previous thread in this group, someone (was it you?) mentioned that the CMA credential is quickly gaining in popularity outside the US.  As someone intimately familiar with US accounting yet residing outside of the US, I figured you were the person to ask this.  Is the CMA becoming the ‘international credential’ that was being pushed here in the US not too long ago?  In your opinion, would the CMA credential be a boon to someone seeking employment with large multi-national business or in globalized industries (petroleum for example)?  In that scenario, would you rate is as carrying more preference than a US CPA or equal?  Or is it still given less weight even in those circumstances?

Response:

I’ll speak for my region (Egypt and some countries in the Middleeast), foreigners especially those from the US, Canada, UK when working for a multinational petroleum company, big 5, Banking firm, they occupy senior postions like managing director even sometimes the CEO, so a designation by itself isn’t enough. They look more on the quality of his experience rather than the designation he holds. An MBA will suite you better in such a case. The CPA is still more preferable.

You seem very big on MBAs, but in today’s world an MBA does not really mean experienced or knowledgeable.  Many people are going straight from their undergraduate studies to an MBA program.  They graduate from that with a shiny new degree, but absolutely no real-world experience and not a clue as to how to apply that which they have learned.  Another fault I see with MBAs (the degree, not the person) is that quite a few of the courses are exactly the same as undergraduate courses.  In fact, at the school I attend, there have even been classes that were combined undergraduate/graduate.  Same professor, same text, same work, same room, same time.  The only difference is that graduate students had to pay about $1000 more for the class.  There was even a teaching assistant in one of my classes who had a BA in philosophy.  He was 30 years old and he’d never held a job outside of academia in his entire life, and he was going for an MBA.  It seems to me that an MBA is most valuable to someone whose undergraduate degree is in something other than business. I do know that the IMA has a pretty strong foothold in the UAE and in Bahrain, so I would expect the CMA certification to carry some weight in those countries.  I’m not really looking to live and work in that region as my wife and daughter would not be happy there; too far away from home.  I personally wouldn’t mind going back to Manama, as I spent some time there about 8 years ago.  Still, I’m looking more at staying in the US working for a multinational with occasional trips overseas, or possibly working in the US offices of a foreign corporation. — Todd Stephens

Response:

Somewhere in a previous thread in this group, someone (was it you?) mentioned that the CMA credential is quickly gaining in popularity outside the US.  As someone intimately familiar with US accounting yet residing outside of the US, I figured you were the person to ask this. Is the CMA becoming the ‘international credential’ that was being pushed here in the US not too long ago?  In your opinion, would the CMA credential be a boon to someone seeking employment with large multi-national business or in globalized industries (petroleum for example)?  In that scenario, would you rate is as carrying more preference than a US CPA or equal?  Or is it still given less weight even in those circumstances?

Don’t think it was your’s truly. IMHO one should tailor the exam preparation to the kind of job one wants to do, e. g.: 1. financial controllership, industrial accounting  - CMA 2. financial management – CFM 3. external audit – CPA (if certifying auditors in general would fulfill    the function foreseen by society and legislation, an optimal    addition would be CFE) 4. internal audit – CIA 5. financial analysis – CFA etc. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Waco, Texas arrangements assassination obfuscation jihad Palestine BATF

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll speak for my region (Egypt and some countries in the Middleeast), foreigners especially those from the US, Canada, UK when working for a multinational petroleum company, big 5, Banking firm, they occupy senior postions like managing director even sometimes the CEO, so a designation by itself isn’t enough. They look more on the quality of his experience rather than the designation he holds. An MBA will suite you better in such a case. The CPA is still more preferable. You seem very big on MBAs, but in today’s world an MBA does not really mean experienced or knowledgeable.  Many people are going straight from their undergraduate studies to an MBA program.  They graduate from that with a shiny new degree, but absolutely no real-world experience and not a clue as to how to apply that which they have learned.  Another fault I see with MBAs (the degree, not the person) is that quite a few of the courses are exactly the same as undergraduate courses.  In fact, at the school I attend, there have even been classes that were combined undergraduate/graduate.  Same professor, same text, same work, same room, same time.  The only difference is that graduate students had to pay about $1000 more for the class.  There was even a teaching assistant in one of my classes who had a BA in philosophy.  He was 30 years old and he’d never held a job outside of academia in his entire life, and he was going for an MBA.  It seems to me that an MBA is most valuable to someone whose undergraduate degree is in something other than business. I do know that the IMA has a pretty strong foothold in the UAE and in Bahrain, so I would expect the CMA certification to carry some weight in those countries.  I’m not really looking to live and work in that region as my wife and daughter would not be happy there; too far away from home.  I personally wouldn’t mind going back to Manama, as I spent some time there about 8 years ago.  Still, I’m looking more at staying in the US working for a multinational with occasional trips overseas, or possibly working in the US offices of a foreign corporation.

I agree with almost everything you mentioned. However, I didn’t mean any MBA but from a top 50 school. To apply for an MBA at those schools, you’ll need to have atleast two years working experience and showing "leadership" roles. Bottom line, an accounting designation is better than an MBA from an unknown school. One thing, are CMA holders considered chartered accountants, since I saw an ad for BP Amco in Dubai wanting chartered accountants.

Response:

I agree with almost everything you mentioned. However, I didn’t mean any MBA but from a top 50 school. To apply for an MBA at those schools, you’ll need to have atleast two years working experience and showing "leadership" roles. Bottom line, an accounting designation is better than an MBA from an unknown school. One thing, are CMA holders considered chartered accountants, since I saw an ad for BP Amco in Dubai wanting chartered accountants.

No. Chartered accountants are the British equivalent of the US certifiied accountant (CPA). — Todd Stephens

Response:

I recall some 30 years ago sharing the same Poly Sci courses as those pursuing MBAs or other higher degrees.  However, the requirements for those students were significantly different from us undergrads. Perhaps Ed can comment as I believe he attended Ariz State some 10 years later as to whether he had similar experiences. Tippy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll speak for my region (Egypt and some countries in the Middleeast), foreigners especially those from the US, Canada, UK when working for a multinational petroleum company, big 5, Banking firm, they occupy senior postions like managing director even sometimes the CEO, so a designation by itself isn’t enough. They look more on the quality of his experience rather than the designation he holds. An MBA will suite you better in such a case. The CPA is still more preferable. You seem very big on MBAs, but in today’s world an MBA does not really mean experienced or knowledgeable.  Many people are going straight from their undergraduate studies to an MBA program.  They graduate from that with a shiny new degree, but absolutely no real-world experience and not a clue as to how to apply that which they have learned.  Another fault I see with MBAs (the degree, not the person) is that quite a few of the courses are exactly the same as undergraduate courses.  In fact, at the school I attend, there have even been classes that were combined undergraduate/graduate. Same professor, same text, same work, same room, same time.  The only difference is that graduate students had to pay about $1000 more for the class. There was even a teaching assistant in one of my classes who had a BA in philosophy.  He was 30 years old and he’d never held a job outside of academia in his entire life, and he was going for an MBA.  It seems to me that an MBA is most valuable to someone whose undergraduate degree is in something other than business. I do know that the IMA has a pretty strong foothold in the UAE and in Bahrain, so I would expect the CMA certification to carry some weight in those countries.  I’m not really looking to live and work in that region as my wife and daughter would not be happy there; too far away from home.  I personally wouldn’t mind going back to Manama, as I spent some time there about 8 years ago.  Still, I’m looking more at staying in the US working for a multinational with occasional trips overseas, or possibly working in the US offices of a foreign corporation. — Todd Stephens

I recall some 30 years ago sharing the same Poly Sci courses as those pursuing MBAs or other higher degrees.  However, the requirements for those students were significantly different from us undergrads. Perhaps Ed can comment as I believe he attended Ariz State some 10 years later as to whether he had similar experiences. I agree with Todd that having an MBA (and I’ll add a a few), CIA, CPA, CGFM, CISA, CMA, etc., does not necessarily mean the individual is any better at the job than a person without the certs.  But they are indicators that the person will perform well…it just doesn’t always work out that way.  I’ve had CPAs who could not do the job and recently //deleted// an MBA to find more appropriate employment (whatever that might be).  OTOH, I’ve had extremely effective auditors without such credentials. Tippy

Response:

Question:

I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied. Thanks for your time, Matt Harris

Response:

Two things to consider here.  When I started I was quite full of myself and didn’t feel that I should spend my time filing and being a gopher.  But almost all of us start out at the bottom and have to learn and work our way up to the top.  If you feel that they are just giving you busy work don’t be so sure.  Most new hires start with filing and shredding and move up after learning the ropes.  The real world is not the same as school. If however you are finding that you have an alot of free time on your hands, (I’m not sure which situation is the one you are describing), than they may want to know how much of a self starter you are.  Find things to do.  Study for the CPA or CMA exams.  Read the office procedure manuals.  Learn computer programs like excel, word, lotus, access.  Offer to help anyone and do anything.  If you offer to help someone and they give you filing to do say thanks and do it cheerfully.  Becoming one of the team is the most important task you may have right now to show your commitment. HTH,  Just my thoughts here I’m not sure if they apply in your case or not. Don   Regards,   Donald A Haney, MBA   Emergency Care Specialists, PC   "Learning occurs in the mind, independent of time and place." – Plato   I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional   accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first   actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first   experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full   time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was   wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and   keeping them occupied.   Thanks for your time,   Matt Harris —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –WebTV-Mail-28116-7089 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied. Thanks for your time, Matt Harris

Matt, Don Haney provided excellent advice in a prior post. I would like to add that my first experience was very difficult, partly because of the nature of public accounting, partly because of my own temperment, and partly because of the temperament of the people in the firm I chosen to work for. Based on my own experience and conversations I have had with my peers, I would say that accountants are not necessarily on the cutting edge when it comes to employee training and motivation. Jim Hudspeth, CPA Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied.

It will vary from firm to firm, and will be based on what they normally do.  However, in general, I would expect to see a lot of busy work up front and (depending on the size of the firm) a potential problem in coordinating the work you are doing with the training you would receive (there simply may not be a project currently available that "ties in" with what you are learning). But, as another reply notes, I would show an interest in helping on projects where you can.  Especially in smaller firms, the partners may be very busy with their own projects and might not immediately perceive that you are out of things to do (because nobody is in a position to be "full time" paying attention to staff development).  Also, you have access to lots of opportunites to improve yourself by learning what you can–take advantage of that fact.

Response:

Most small firms do not have the ability for classroom type training, it is usually "hands on", "learn from your mistakes".  However, keep your self busy as mentioned in other posts, learn computer programs, study for the exam, read accounting journals and show an interest in everything. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just started working as a staff accountant in a small regional accounting firm.  I didn’t have an internship, so this is my first actual accounting experience.  Could you please tell me about your first experiences in an accounting firm, whether as an intern or as a full time accountant.  I realize that this is the slow season, but I was wondering how well other firms are at training new employees, and keeping them occupied. Thanks for your time, Matt Harris [Image]

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of a good Accounting system for furniture industry related companies? We have about 100 users in 3 countries that we want to connect a single accounting system. We also want to track our imports using the system. Any ideas would be most helpful. — Thanks, JC Haven

Response:

"Furniture" is very broad.   We have clients who manufacture, distribute (wholesale), sell (retail), and rent.  Some are office furniture, others are home related. Office furniture is generally less custom: a chair might be described by a model number and a color.  Many of the domestic furnishings are highly customized.  One client uses cabinet modelling software which displays a computer generated picture of custom shelving, then sends the data to a computer controlled milling machine which makes the pieces. If you can provide more info on your general business model, I can offer more accurate suggestions. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick 800-997-7944   949-261-2694 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of a good Accounting system for furniture industry related companies? We have about 100 users in 3 countries that we want to connect a single accounting system. We also want to track our imports using the system. Any ideas would be most helpful. — Thanks, JC Haven

Response:

Thank you for replying to my inquiry. This company designs, manufactures, sells and distributes domestic furniture and furniture compenents. Most of our sales involve domestic furniture made overseas and finished here. Our needs range from simple order entry to the cataloging of detailed artwork for furniture design. The area we need most help in is the order entry area. We need a system that will allow all departments to view, add, or modify parts of an order through each step of fulfillment including the status of imports. If you know of such a system (I know we can’t have everything) I would be most aprreciative. Thanks, Charles Haven —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Furniture" is very broad.   We have clients who manufacture, distribute (wholesale), sell (retail), and rent.  Some are office furniture, others are home related. Office furniture is generally less custom: a chair might be described by a model number and a color.  Many of the domestic furnishings are highly customized.  One client uses cabinet modelling software which displays a computer generated picture of custom shelving, then sends the data to a computer controlled milling machine which makes the pieces. If you can provide more info on your general business model, I can offer more accurate suggestions. Respectfully,  - Carl Dick 800-997-7944   949-261-2694 Does anyone know of a good Accounting system for furniture industry related companies? We have about 100 users in 3 countries that we want to connect a single accounting system. We also want to track our imports using the system. Any ideas would be most helpful. — Thanks, JC Haven

Response:

Question:

i need a accounts payable system do not want to use any other accounting funtion any recomendations ?? can quick books or one write plus or peechtree be used as a stand alone A/P (will need reports to post to existing G/L) thanks charlie

Response:

Why dont you use the simple method of PeachTree or Quicken

Response:

Question:

James Bond wrote … I have an outstanding invoice from a customer that will not pay it.  I want to right it off and get it out of my receivables.

Look in HELP under BAD DEBTS.

Response:

Hi 007! want to right it off and get it out of my receivables. Can someone suggest how to accomplish this in MYOB.

You do this by posting a "negative" sale — use a sales invoice, select your deadbeat customer, select your "bad debt" expense account, post the $$ (or "pound") value of the write-off with a minus sign (ie -100) and post the sale. Then, select "settle credits" from the sales screen and offset the original invoice with this negative sale you created. ps:    if you charged VAT on the original invoice, be sure to claim this back on you next remittance.

Response:

I have an outstanding invoice from a customer that will not pay it.  I want to right it off and get it out of my receivables. Can someone suggest how to accomplish this in MYOB.

HELP/CUE CARDS/SEARCH/FIND….bad (for Bad Debt) Hope this helps! Mike      <<<<<<  MIKE FISHER & ASSOCIATES                                      …oOo…                "The Help Line for Small Business"  Computer, Accounting and Bookkeeping Support in NQ                 Ph (07) 4779 6761 or 018 180 684                    www.ozemail.com.au/~mfisher

Response:

Use payment from Customer option in the Sales module as though it is a payment. Then, use GL journal to reverse the entry from bank ( Dr Bank, Cr Bad Debts).

Sorry but Patrick’s w’ong Credit Bad Debt??????      <<<<<<  MIKE FISHER & ASSOCIATES                                      …oOo…                "The Help Line for Small Business"  Computer, Accounting and Bookkeeping Support in NQ                 Ph (07) 4779 6761 or 018 180 684                    www.ozemail.com.au/~mfisher

Response:

Not sure of the specifics of MYOB.  But you could raise a credit note perhaps? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone- I have an outstanding invoice from a customer that will not pay it.  I want to right it off and get it out of my receivables. Can someone suggest how to accomplish this in MYOB. Thanks in advance, please post to group.

Response:

Accounting entries should be Dr Bad Debt, Cr Bank. Apologies for mistake made and confusion. Regards, Patrick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone- I have an outstanding invoice from a customer that will not pay it.  I want to right it off and get it out of my receivables. Can someone suggest how to accomplish this in MYOB. Thanks in advance, please post to group.

Response:

Anyone- I have an outstanding invoice from a customer that will not pay it.  I want to right it off and get it out of my receivables. Can someone suggest how to accomplish this in MYOB. Thanks in advance, please post to group.

Response:

Use payment from Customer option in the Sales module as though it is a payment. Then, use GL journal to reverse the entry from bank ( Dr Bank, Cr Bad Debts). Regards, Patrick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone- I have an outstanding invoice from a customer that will not pay it.  I want to right it off and get it out of my receivables. Can someone suggest how to accomplish this in MYOB. Thanks in advance, please post to group.

Response:

Hello, Is there an easy way to get MYOB to include previous unpaid balances when it creates invoices?  I am using MYOB version 7.0. Thanks, Bruce Demske

Response:

Is there an easy way to get MYOB to include previous unpaid balances when it creates invoices?  I am using MYOB version 7.0.

I don’t use MYOB, but your question appears to indicate confusion between an INVOICE and a STATEMENT.   In any accounting system that I know, an invoice represents a single transaction (therefore no "previous unpaid balance" data) and a STATEMENT summarizes previous transactions.  I’d be surprised if MYOB were any different.

Response:

Yes, I’m agree w/ Mr. Paige. Tell us more about it. rgds, Rama – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there an easy way to get MYOB to include previous unpaid balances when it creates invoices?  I am using MYOB version 7.0. I don’t use MYOB, but your question appears to indicate confusion between an INVOICE and a STATEMENT.   In any accounting system that I know, an invoice represents a single transaction (therefore no "previous unpaid balance" data) and a STATEMENT summarizes previous transactions.  I’d be surprised if MYOB were any different.

Response:

Question:

 Just saw this post, don’t you mean Facist Mortgagee….you are the mortgagor

Response:

3. I’ve attempted to get a "non-sell" clause in the mortgage contract to prohibit the mortgage company from selling the contract to another party. Sometimes I’ve been successful with this but mostly not.

Why would you possibly care if they sell the loan?  Whoever buys it will be obligated to honor the terms of the loan contract, so what possible difference could it who you make the checks out to?

Response:

3. I’ve attempted to get a "non-sell" clause in the mortgage contract to prohibit the mortgage company from selling the contract to another party. Sometimes I’ve been successful with this but mostly not. Why would you possibly care if they sell the loan?  Whoever buys it will be obligated to honor the terms of the loan contract, so what possible difference could it who you make the checks out to?

Because "obligated to honor" and "honor" are two very different things. Or to put it another way: you can’t eat, deposit in your bank account, etc., an obligation. Also there are big differences in competence, customer service, etc. between different mortgage servicers.         — Scott

Response:

First, please forgive me for responding directly, I’m not sure my posts are making it past my "server". 3. I’ve attempted to get a "non-sell" clause in the mortgage contract to prohibit the mortgage company from selling the contract to another party. Sometimes I’ve been successful with this but mostly not. Why would you possibly care if they sell the loan?  Whoever buys it will be obligated to honor the terms of the loan contract, so what possible difference could it who you make the checks out to?

I don’t make out checks, my bank does an ETF.  In our last house, the mortgage was sold before we closed!  In 2 years, it was sold 2 more times; each time we got nasty notes about non-payment.  The bank (actually a CU) was so good to us about other things that when we moved, we made a special effort to go thru the CU to finance. Robert Thornton

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        Now EMC Corporation is bombarding me with conflicting threats. First they demand immediate payment of the outstanding very large "escrow". What "escrow"?  No, it’s not taxes.  They thre figures at me, but nothing to justify them.   Then they decide to double the amount of my monthly payment (my contract is a fixed-rate 30 years mortgage).  Then they changed their minds.  Don’t know what’s going on in their minds or in their accounting system.

I just thought I’d jump in here also in case anyone searching pulls up this message. Back in the early 80’s I had a house and mortgage (also in Texas). I was a first time homebuyer, so what did I know? What happened was that although the mortgage conditions and terms were regulated out the kazaoo, the ESCROW was completely (at that time) UNregulated. If they all of a sudden decided they wanted $5000/month escrow, there was absolutely nothing I could do about it but pay up or default on my Mortgage. In effect this is exactly what they did. I received a notice saying that they had changed their bookkeeping and now wanted all of the escrow in the account at the beginning of the year, instead of me paying is monthly along with the P&I, and to please send them $2000/month for the new two months. This damn near put me into foreclosure (it was REAL close – I called the mortgage insurance guys and told ‘em I was going to let them have the house – they didn’t like that at *all*). This company is now out of business (and I hope the guys are in jail as a result of the S&L stuff), so the name is moot. However, since them in 3 other real estate transactions, I’ve avoided problems by doing the following. 1. There ain’t no escrow! I pay the taxes and insurance myself. It’s sometimes difficult to find a mortgage company that will do this since escrow is such a cash cow for them (in Texas at the time, they didn’t have to pay interest on the escrow – nor did they have to give you an option to refund any overage at the end of the year). 2. There ain’t no mortgage insurance! I found out dealing with the MI guys that there’s no point in having it from the owner’s point of view (which seems obvious in retrospect). I’ve been fortunate in that I’ve been able to save enough to put down the 20% or so to avoid that. (Note – this is not the same as title insurance which will pretty much always be required – although it only covers the mortgage company’s ass – you might want to look into owner’s Title Insurance as well). 3. I’ve attempted to get a "non-sell" clause in the mortgage contract to prohibit the mortgage company from selling the contract to another party. Sometimes I’ve been successful with this but mostly not. Subsequently I believe that *some* controls on escrow have been been put into effect (by the feds?) but I got burned so badly on my first house with it, I’ve never had it again so can’t say much along those lines. Watch out about escrow! Best to have an RE attorney look at the contract to see if there are potential pitfalls. –Bob Wier

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Question:

: provided that they are sound, what is wrong with this? : : These (experimental) aircraft can be designed by anybody, irrespective : of their qualifications. that is precisely the freedom that is lacking in this country. being "qualified" does not mean that that your work is sound. (morton thiokol)

The engineers involved with the shuttle booster rocket engines were well aware of the probable result of launching in temperatures which would affect the capability of certain seals. They didn’t order the launch. being "unqualified" also does not mean incompetent. there are quite a lot of talented people in industry who are in the positions they are because of personal motivation and intelligence. : They can then be sold to the public in largely : pre manufactured kits. caveat emptor. require all new designs to fly before marketing can commence. how many of the large commercial designs are pre sold before the first construction has commenced.

Not one of these commercial aircraft can be used by to purchaser until it is certificated.  There is an enormous gulf between just flying a new aircraft (of any size) and showing that it has appropriate handling qualites, structural integrity, freedom from flutter, any fatigue problems know, the performance has been measured and documented, the systems all work properly, etc. :  The purchaser has no way of knowing if theO : aircraft is properly designed, manufactured, tested or if it really is : fit for flight. The manufacturer has been able to escape his : responsibilities and obligations to the consumer by not doing the final : assembly of the aircraft your logic is particularly slanted here. the buyer will be purchasing the prebuilt parts to get past the difficult machining and assembly bits.

Parts prebuilt without any requirement for quality assurance in terms of materials, or manufacturing processes. For example, many plastic fantastics are sold as kits which require no structural composite work by the owner/bulder.  How can you or I be sure the manufacturers layup is as per design (if there was a design) with no hidden defects or voids? the BD5 has probably killed more homebuilders on first flights than any other design but it *is* successfully flown and enjoyed by a number of pilots who are fully aware of its history and limitations. why deny them the personal freedom to tackle such a project?

Great advert for those who "unfortunately" died.  What caused the accidents, poor handling qualities? : The way aircraft are proven to be sound is by a disinterested third : party running a certification process. no, this is the method that *you* are familiar with and feel happiest with. it is only one method. I agree that it can be objective.

Tell us about the other methods, which consumers and those who look after consumer interests would find acceptable. Henri Mignet flew over 30 hours in the Flea before more adventurous pilots pushed it into one corner of it’s envelope and found the fatal flaw. (btw this flaw was corrected) it is possible that a designer or builder would be too gentle with the aircraft and not uncover its limitations. again caveat emptor.

So you go for a quick assessment flight around the envelope and kill yourself – says a lot for the cause of an experimental category. At least your mates would know that the aircraft may be a bit sus. : : : If anybody thinks they can design an aircraft without stifling : : paperwork, endless hours of calculations, structural tests, systems : : tests, flight tests, unforseen modifications, etc, etc, please don’t ask : : me to fly it. : : take out the words "stifling paperwork, " and I agree fully. : : If there is no stifling paperwork, how can the designer justify his : aircraft to the consumer, where are the test reports? : why does a process of design verification need to be stifling ?

I thought you said the problem was stifling paperwork, please give us some examples. : You may not be advocating shonky work, but unfortunately many of the : "experimental" aircraft I have flow were shonky in the extreme. There that bodes the question, why did you fly an aeroplane that you believed was suspect ???????

Howard, in the aircraft development business you don’t do any work on any aspect for which you know all the answers.  You flight test to find answers, sometimes you don’t like what you find.  To me, all aircraft under development are suspect in some areas, but test pilots and flight test engineers still fly them. in my preflight inspection *I* am making the decision as to whether the aircraft is sound to fly. if *I* decide that it is safe I’ll fly it. I dont care whether the aircraft is personally signed off by all of CASA it is *my* decision that I fly on. if it has something I’m not happy with I do something about it. a friend of mine pointed out an oil drip from the cowling of a certified commercial safe aircraft. I drew it to the owner’s attention and persisted when he said "oh she’s all right". he was a bit irritated but opened the cowl. the yellow oil cap was hanging on the chain. are you being lulled into a false sense of security by the "certification"? in the certified aircraft that you last flew, where was the corrosion? what was your remaining margin of safety ?? did you look???

Like most people I have to have a certain confidence in a number of systems which contribute to safe aviation. These would include operations, pilot licensing, airtraffic control, airworthiness control, met forecasting, airports etc. The airworthiness process which contributes significantly to safe flying works this way: (1) aircraft are designed, tested and certificated against                 internationally recognized standards. (2) the aircraft are constructed under an approved manufacturing system     to ensure they are built out of the specified materials, using          specified processes and procedures, to the approved drawings. (3) a maintenance and defect reporting system is developed to form a        closed loop back to the design office. This allows all interested       parties to know about in-service defects and the rectification          action taken (this may well include re-design and recertification of     items). If you take the case of the early DH Comet aircraft. Was it airworthy? Yes, it had all the paperwork necessary to say so. Was it fit to fly? Obviously, with 20/20 hindsight, it was not. : are no means of protecting a less than knowledgable consumer from shonky : "experimental" aircraft designs. give them some credit for intelligence.

OK, I admit to my low intelligence – there is no way I can do serious assessment of the structural integrity of any aircaft design.  Also before my tp training I wasn’t too sharp on stability and control assessments.  In my experience, the more "intelligent" pilots’ of home builts’ usually blame themselves if they have trouble controlling their aircraft – it never crosses their minds that the aircraft may have handling characteristics which could never be approved under even the lowest airworthiness code. : : From a qualified test pilot’s : : point of view many were excellent, others were dogs which had : : significant handling (and other) deficiencies. : how about telling us which one’s were excellent and which one’s were dogs. : what made the bad ones dogs? : this *is* the type of information that should be public knowledge.

Will you bank roll the legal costs? This thread has strayed a long way from "Homegrown aircraft designs" Readers should remember that the majority of experimental aircraft in the USA are used for personal transportation.  In many cases there will have been no serious attempt to show that the design is suitable for this use. In those cases the pilot is an experimental test pilot every time he/she flies. Unfortunately the pilot will be totally unaware of todays test. The first thing I do when I am required to fly an experimental aircraft (except for those of the aircraft manufacturers) is get the NTSB accident reports to study. Despite all of this, I have a couple of ex experimental category (Australian amateur built category) aircraft on my list of all time favorites. regards, cjf

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To digress just a tad, I am looking for some (Preferably free) aero design software to run on a 486 compatible. I have Michelle Bolands Aerofoil design software and the Ronz spreadsheets for checking out the figures but no actual design software. Any hints? For what its worth on the above debate, I’ll go along with Howard.  Many designers find it a struggle just to put pen to paper.  They should be permitted to get an aircraft to flying stages to at least test the damn things out. Even Dick Smith won’t invest in Aircraft design in this country. An experimental category doean’t mean that shoddy aircraft will start falling from our skies.  It means designers will have an excuse to actually build something that their theory says is a sound machine. The government doesn’t have to give a vh cert to a shoody aircraft, or allow sale of aircraft not certed, but I think the new category will stop the apathy in aircraft design in this country. 0.02 (for Hoges: My home brew goes about 5.7) — Cheers, Herdy.

        Read the latest AOPA (are you a member?) Bill Hamilton  mentions about the Regulatory Review Taskforce. They have a bunch of new CARs to propose including an Experimental Category, virtually identical to the FAA’s.         So maybe I will one day build that replica Mustang I saw in KITPLANES with the metal body and 454 Chevy motor…                                         Regards                                                 BRIAN (I read once the Space Shuttle is registered in the Experimental Category…) Brian Grinter Sydney, Australia ph 61 2 6228970

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To digress just a tad, I am looking for some (Preferably free) aero design software to run on a 486 compatible. I have Michelle Bolands Aerofoil design software and the Ronz spreadsheets for checking out the figures but no actual design software. Any hints? For what its worth on the above debate, I’ll go along with Howard.  Many designers find it a struggle just to put pen to paper.  They should be permitted to get an aircraft to flying stages to at least test the damn things out. Even Dick Smith won’t invest in Aircraft design in this country. An experimental category doean’t mean that shoddy aircraft will start falling from our skies.  It means designers will have an excuse to actually build something that their theory says is a sound machine. The government doesn’t have to give a vh cert to a shoody aircraft, or allow sale of aircraft not certed, but I think the new category will stop the apathy in aircraft design in this country. 0.02 (for Hoges: My home brew goes about 5.7) — Cheers, Herdy. Herd, Jon Herd                     "Twas a Woman who drove me to drink Newcastle   NSW   Australia         and I never had the decency to write "Though Aviators have their ups and downs, the only hard about flying  is the ground" "The only time that you can have too much fuel on an aircraft is when  the bastard’s on fire!"             Sir Charles Edward Kingsford Smith, 1928

I thought the whole debate was about building and using aircraft, which have not been shown to meet any design standard, as an alternative to certificated small light aircraft as per the USA. The so called developmental aspects are just a spin off. I really have to wonder how I have done so much flying in so many Australian developmental aircraft without an experimental category. I am sure they all flew legally. regards, cjf

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 Just wait until we get the monkey off the backs of the designers  and have the Experimental category introduced. Come on Howard, to my knowledge the following aircraft have flown in Australia without an "experimental category" (in recent years): Eagle, Jabiru, Skyfox, Maverick, GA-200, GA-8, Seeker, Bushmaster, Mamba, Lightwing, and older types like Starlet, Nomad.

I’m with you on this one Howard. The experimental category will bring many new designs and inovative aircraft development forward in this country. I realise that will be difficult for CASA and ASA to accept but it works fine in the US. What most people forget is the huge cost to get an aircraft flying in this country for proving purposes. Almost all of that cost is CASA. That is why Boeing etc use the experimental category in the US. It gets the design from the drawing board to actual flight numbers with minumum cost and time. It does not as many will say reduce the engineering input or safety. If Chris would like to talk with the designers of the aircraft he listed as to the pain associated with getting a design to the flying stage it would be most informative. Hope you can stand the language when you do discuss this matter. Brian Garrett

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…That is why Boeing etc use the experimental category in the US. It gets the design from the drawing board to actual flight numbers with minumum cost and time. It does not as many will say reduce the engineering input or safety.

No, it doesn’t have to but it certainly can and does if the aircraft is never intended to to be certified for average pilots.  Boeing _design_ for air transport certification.  They use Experimental while the FAA ensures that the design meets the Air Transport criteria.  That is very diferent from, for example, the Lancair. If Chris would like to talk with the designers of the aircraft he listed as to the pain associated with getting a design to the flying stage it would be most informative. Hope you can stand the language when you do discuss this matter.

I’m sure Chris has had much more serious discussions with designers than anyone else in this correspondence.  After all, it was his arse that was at stake as the test pilot.  As a fellow pilot who relies on the flying of people like Chris, I have as much respect for his views as I do for those of salesmen, designers and builders.  I have talked to a test pilot who flew the Lancair and his view of that lovely aeroplane is probably a little different from that promoted by the builders. Where there’s smoke, there’s often fire and the on-again-off-again story that Howard referred to could be an example of the persistence of commercial pressures in the teeth of aerodynamic facts.  It might be possible to describe the story as a demonstration of the strength of character of the public servants (and most test pilots _are_ public servants) in CASA in doing their job despite strong commercial pressure to blink. Brian Garrett

I guess aviation is a balancing act.  We need the brilliant and enthusiastic designers and salesmen but we also need the staid and careful test pilots and engineers reminding us that there are very few free lunches.  Having said that, I do agree with Howard that, when the Starlet was being designed, DCA were a long way out of balance on home-built aircraft. Graeme Cant

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: I guess aviation is a balancing act.  We need the brilliant and enthusiastic : designers and salesmen but we also need the staid and careful test pilots and : engineers reminding us that there are very few free lunches.  Having said that, agreed, but each with only the dues that they deserve. : I do agree with Howard that, when the Starlet was being designed, DCA were : a long way out of balance on home-built aircraft. actually I was referring to the aluminium starlet which was the CJ-2 if the anecdotal talk at the time was correct. he could never get it approved. with that background, absolutely the right guy for his current job. the $64 question regarding the experimental category is something like would burt rutan have ever gained approval for his first design in Aus. all those years ago? I doubt it. 66 Towton Way, Langford 6147, Western Australia               /       Corby Starlet Plans #279….SAAA 4330, Editor "Western Flyer"       V

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : If your designers can’t supply CASA with enough design data to be : granted a permit to fly under current regulations I have significant : doubts that the aircraft should be permitted to fly. I’m sure that John Corby would have a different personal experience. :  These manufacturers use the experimental : category (in the USA) to get on with the job, not to cut design corners. I tell you what chris, for a dumb ol’ test pilot, you’re sharp! : An experimental category does not, in any way, override the real world : of physics, structural engineering, aerodynamics, or aircraft stability : and control. you’re sharp boyoh! Notice that your description of the "real world" doesnt mention stifling paperwork, approvals from nervous nellies and the incursions of the accounting types striving for really net trends. : Let’s hear from the Australian designers who are held up by the lack of : an "experimental category". ok how about the australian Lancair experience and the on again off again airworthiness approvals…..but as you said let’s hear from the designers. The SAAA would not have pushed this for all the years that they have without the glaringly obvious differences between the USA and what they are able to achieve under the experimental category in the way of personal freedom and the obstructionist crap we are fed from CASA.(nee CAA) The air and the physics are the same the world over (except in rotorua)

In the USA the normal means of flight development is using an experimental category. In Australia it is by either a Permit to Fly or a Developmental CofA. John Corby (CASA) is now one of the bureacrats. The majority of "experimental" aircraft in the USA are used not for experimental purposes, but as a cheap alternative to certificated aircraft. Many have major deficiencies in handling qualities, structural design, and systems design : they should therefore be cheap. I remember when ultra light design (with no CAA interference) was all the rage.  To my knowledge at least 3 of these innovative designers died in their own creations whilst trying to reinvent the aeroplane. Not many of their designs fly today. With reference to the Lancair, if Howard believes an aircraft with so many deficiencies (then, I don’t know about now) should have all the privileges of a normal aircraft, we will for ever disagree. If anybody thinks they can design an aircraft without stifling paperwork, endless hours of calculations, structural tests, systems tests, flight tests, unforseen modifications, etc, etc, please don’t ask me to fly it. In the end the Government, some years ago, took the view that it didn’t like people killing themselves in poorly designed home made aircraft, until this view changes I don’t think we will see a sky full of these yet to be designed "innovative" aircraft. For those who think I have an aversion to Amateur Built aircraft – I have flow many hours in at least 40 types. From a qualified test pilot’s point of view many were excellent, others were dogs which had significant handling (and other) deficiencies. regards, cjf

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: The majority of "experimental" aircraft in the USA are used not for : experimental purposes, but as a cheap alternative to certificated : provided that they are sound, what is wrong with this? : If anybody thinks they can design an aircraft without stifling : paperwork, endless hours of calculations, structural tests, systems : tests, flight tests, unforseen modifications, etc, etc, please don’t ask : me to fly it. take out the words "stifling paperwork, " and I agree fully. : In the end the Government, some years ago, took the view that it didn’t : like people killing themselves in poorly designed home made aircraft, : until this view changes I don’t think we will see a sky full of these : yet to be designed "innovative" aircraft. just who are "the Government"? are they the same people who cant publish  anything in this country on "recommended practise"? are the americans the only culture in the world who know how to build an aircraft ? many years ago that same "government" declared that australian lame’s werent up to the task of maintaining the Chipmonk. there are quite a few restorations which seem to disprove the attitude. at the recent Safety Forum I posed a question on owner maintenance. the best answer that they could come up with was "become a LAME". Aviation technology is not so special as to prevent competent amateur work. :   : For those who think I have an aversion to Amateur Built aircraft – I : have flow many hours in at least 40 types. you seem to believe that I’m advocating shonky work. I can assure you that I’m not. I’ve actually caused the guys thousands of dollars in repair on the restoration that I’m assisting with by insisting that things that were not up to snuff were replaced. we originally started doing work ourselves because the quality just wasnt in some of the commercial work that was done. this has caused our supervising LAME’s some heart failure but they’ve always been impressed with the quality of the finished work. I had some problems with welding rods on my starlet tailwheel bracket. I’ve built 5 so far and scrapped each one of them. I dont care if I build 10 before I’m happy, when I am happy it’ll be showcase and sound. : From a qualified test pilot’s : point of view many were excellent, others were dogs which had : significant handling (and other) deficiencies. : and this is the real reason for the follow up. how about telling us which one’s were excellent and which one’s were dogs. what made the bad ones dogs? this *is* the type of information that should be public knowledge. — 66 Towton Way, Langford 6147, Western Australia               /       Corby Starlet Plans #279….SAAA 4330, Editor "Western Flyer"       V

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: The majority of "experimental" aircraft in the USA are used not for : experimental purposes, but as a cheap alternative to certificated : provided that they are sound, what is wrong with this?

These (experimental) aircraft can be designed by anybody, irrespective of their qualifications. They can then be sold to the public in largely pre manufactured kits.  The purchaser has no way of knowing if the aircraft is properly designed, manufactured, tested or if it really is fit for flight. The manufacturer has been able to escape his responsibilities and obligations to the consumer by not doing the final assembly of the aircraft The way aircraft are proven to be sound is by a disinterested third party running a certification process. : If anybody thinks they can design an aircraft without stifling : paperwork, endless hours of calculations, structural tests, systems : tests, flight tests, unforseen modifications, etc, etc, please don’t ask : me to fly it. take out the words "stifling paperwork, " and I agree fully.

If there is no stifling paperwork, how can the designer justify his aircraft to the consumer, where are the test reports? : For those who think I have an aversion to Amateur Built aircraft – I : have flow many hours in at least 40 types. you seem to believe that I’m advocating shonky work.

You may not be advocating shonky work, but unfortunately many of the "experimental" aircraft I have flow were shonky in the extreme. There are no means of protecting a less than knowledgable consumer from shonky "experimental" aircraft designs. : From a qualified test pilot’s : point of view many were excellent, others were dogs which had : significant handling (and other) deficiencies. : and this is the real reason for the follow up. how about telling us which one’s were excellent and which one’s were dogs. what made the bad ones dogs? this *is* the type of information that should be public knowledge.

Without a checking process by a disinterested, qualified, third party this information will never become public knowledge. If people want an assessment of the viability of an "experimental" aircraft type they may well have to employ specialist consultants to check the aircraft and its designer/manufacturer out. Funny thing though, those aircraft I have flown which were designed by qualified people were mostly very good. Those designed by the snake oil salesmen were mostly very bad. Regards, cjf

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: provided that they are sound, what is wrong with this? : : These (experimental) aircraft can be designed by anybody, irrespective : of their qualifications. that is precisely the freedom that is lacking in this country. being "qualified" does not mean that that your work is sound. (morton thiokol) being "unqualified" also does not mean incompetent. there are quite a lot of talented people in industry who are in the positions they are because of personal motivation and intelligence. : They can then be sold to the public in largely : pre manufactured kits. caveat emptor. require all new designs to fly before marketing can commence. how many of the large commercial designs are pre sold before the first construction has commenced. :  The purchaser has no way of knowing if theO : aircraft is properly designed, manufactured, tested or if it really is : fit for flight. The manufacturer has been able to escape his : responsibilities and obligations to the consumer by not doing the final : assembly of the aircraft your logic is particularly slanted here. the buyer will be purchasing the prebuilt parts to get past the difficult machining and assembly bits. the BD5 has probably killed more homebuilders on first flights than any other design but it *is* successfully flown and enjoyed by a number of pilots who are fully aware of its history and limitations. why deny them the personal freedom to tackle such a project? : The way aircraft are proven to be sound is by a disinterested third : party running a certification process. no, this is the method that *you* are familiar with and feel happiest with. it is only one method. I agree that it can be objective. Henri Mignet flew over 30 hours in the Flea before more adventurous pilots pushed it into one corner of it’s envelope and found the fatal flaw. (btw this flaw was corrected) it is possible that a designer or builder would be too gentle with the aircraft and not uncover its limitations. again caveat emptor. : : : If anybody thinks they can design an aircraft without stifling : : paperwork, endless hours of calculations, structural tests, systems : : tests, flight tests, unforseen modifications, etc, etc, please don’t ask : : me to fly it. : : take out the words "stifling paperwork, " and I agree fully. : : If there is no stifling paperwork, how can the designer justify his : aircraft to the consumer, where are the test reports? : why does a process of design verification need to be stifling ? : You may not be advocating shonky work, but unfortunately many of the : "experimental" aircraft I have flow were shonky in the extreme. There that bodes the question, why did you fly an aeroplane that you believed was suspect ??????? in my preflight inspection *I* am making the decision as to whether the aircraft is sound to fly. if *I* decide that it is safe I’ll fly it. I dont care whether the aircraft is personally signed off by all of CASA it is *my* decision that I fly on. if it has something I’m not happy with I do something about it. a friend of mine pointed out an oil drip from the cowling of a certified commercial safe aircraft. I drew it to the owner’s attention and persisted when he said "oh she’s all right". he was a bit irritated but opened the cowl. the yellow oil cap was hanging on the chain. are you being lulled into a false sense of security by the "certification"? in the certified aircraft that you last flew, where was the corrosion? what was your remaining margin of safety ?? did you look??? : are no means of protecting a less than knowledgable consumer from shonky : "experimental" aircraft designs. give them some credit for intelligence. : : From a qualified test pilot’s : : point of view many were excellent, others were dogs which had : : significant handling (and other) deficiencies. : how about telling us which one’s were excellent and which one’s were dogs. : what made the bad ones dogs? : this *is* the type of information that should be public knowledge. : : Without a checking process by a disinterested, qualified, third party : this information will never become public knowledge. : : If people want an assessment of the viability of an "experimental" : aircraft type they may well have to employ specialist consultants to : check the aircraft and its designer/manufacturer out. : : Funny thing though, those aircraft I have flown which were designed by : qualified people were mostly very good. Those designed by the snake oil : salesmen were mostly very bad. you betray an attitude so typical of CASA. we have a body of knowledge that leads us to prohibiting your actions. ….when you delve behind the facade it is a pretty hollow position that they sometimes regulate from. You commented on poor designs, tell us of them. As a qualified test pilot you are in a position to comment with some authority. To duck off without substantiating the claims somewhat diminishes your credibility. regards 66 Towton Way, Langford 6147, Western Australia               /       Corby Starlet Plans #279….SAAA 4330, Editor "Western Flyer"       V

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 Just wait until we get the monkey off the backs of the designers  and have the Experimental category introduced. Come on Howard, to my knowledge the following aircraft have flown in Australia without an "experimental category" (in recent years): Eagle, Jabiru, Skyfox, Maverick, GA-200, GA-8, Seeker, Bushmaster, Mamba, Lightwing, and older types like Starlet, Nomad. If your designers can’t supply CASA with enough design data to be granted a permit to fly under current regulations I have significant doubts that the aircraft should be permitted to fly. I might add that I have flow experimental category aircraft in the USA like Boeing 737 and 747-400. These manufacturers use the experimental category (in the USA) to get on with the job, not to cut design corners. The same provisions are available in Australia, under the permit to fly or developmental CofA provisions of the airworthiness regs. An experimental category does not, in any way, override the real world of physics, structural engineering, aerodynamics, or aircraft stability and control. Let’s hear from the Australian designers who are held up by the lack of an "experimental category". I still like your style *grin* regards, cjf

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: If your designers can’t supply CASA with enough design data to be : granted a permit to fly under current regulations I have significant : doubts that the aircraft should be permitted to fly. I’m sure that John Corby would have a different personal experience. :  These manufacturers use the experimental : category (in the USA) to get on with the job, not to cut design corners. I tell you what chris, for a dumb ol’ test pilot, you’re sharp! : An experimental category does not, in any way, override the real world : of physics, structural engineering, aerodynamics, or aircraft stability : and control. you’re sharp boyoh! Notice that your description of the "real world" doesnt mention stifling paperwork, approvals from nervous nellies and the incursions of the accounting types striving for really net trends. : Let’s hear from the Australian designers who are held up by the lack of : an "experimental category". ok how about the australian Lancair experience and the on again off again airworthiness approvals…..but as you said let’s hear from the designers. The SAAA would not have pushed this for all the years that they have without the glaringly obvious differences between the USA and what they are able to achieve under the experimental category in the way of personal freedom and the obstructionist crap we are fed from CASA.(nee CAA) The air and the physics are the same the world over (except in rotorua) : I still like your style *grin* do you wear a parachute when you test fly ? (it’s unrelated btw  ) send me a postal address. 66 Towton Way, Langford 6147, Western Australia               /       Corby Starlet Plans #279….SAAA 4330, Editor "Western Flyer"       V

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To digress just a tad, I am looking for some (Preferably free) aero design software to run on a 486 compatible. I have Michelle Bolands Aerofoil design software and the Ronz spreadsheets for checking out the figures but no actual design software. Any hints? For what its worth on the above debate, I’ll go along with Howard.  Many designers find it a struggle just to put pen to paper.  They should be permitted to get an aircraft to flying stages to at least test the damn things out. Even Dick Smith won’t invest in Aircraft design in this country. An experimental category doean’t mean that shoddy aircraft will start falling from our skies.  It means designers will have an excuse to actually build something that their theory says is a sound machine. The government doesn’t have to give a vh cert to a shoody aircraft, or allow sale of aircraft not certed, but I think the new category will stop the apathy in aircraft design in this country. 0.02 (for Hoges: My home brew goes about 5.7) — Cheers, Herdy. Herd, Jon Herd                     "Twas a Woman who drove me to drink Newcastle   NSW   Australia         and I never had the decency to write "Though Aviators have their ups and downs, the only hard about flying  is the ground" "The only time that you can have too much fuel on an aircraft is when  the bastard’s on fire!"             Sir Charles Edward Kingsford Smith, 1928

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A few matres and I were chatting the other day about the lack of indiginous designs about, and I thought – well, how do we know there is a lack. There could be a number of aircraft being designed out there, cause they don’t tend to get a lot of publicity. So I figured I’d try and put together a list of what’s happening. The projects I know of that are on the boil: GA-8    A light utility aircraft, with Col Nicholson working on it out in the Latrobe Valley Seeker and Sentinel (?)         A pair of light surveillance aircraft up in Hervy Bay in Qld – don’t know the company or the players Air Cruiser     I think a group is recertificating the cruiser (civil name for the CT4) for civil use – don’t know the names. I also know that there are several homebuilts and ultralights around – Jabiru, Skyfox, Eagle X – anyone know what the current status is? Does anyone else out there know of any other interesting projects happening? JT

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few matres and I were chatting the other day about the lack of indiginous designs about, and I thought – well, how do we know there is a lack. There could be a number of aircraft being designed out there, cause they don’t tend to get a lot of publicity. So I figured I’d try and put together a list of what’s happening. The projects I know of that are on the boil: GA-8    A light utility aircraft, with Col Nicholson working on it out in the Latrobe Valley Seeker and Sentinel (?)         A pair of light surveillance aircraft up in Hervy Bay in Qld – don’t know the company or the players Air Cruiser     I think a group is recertificating the cruiser (civil name for the CT4) for civil use – don’t know the names. I also know that there are several homebuilts and ultralights around – Jabiru, Skyfox, Eagle X – anyone know what the current status is? Does anyone else out there know of any other interesting projects happening? JT

Just to correct one aircraft for you. The Aircruiser (note: all one word) is not the civil name for the CT4(A&B), their name as opposed to type numbers is the Airtrainer. The only Aircruiser (and there is only one of its type is alive and well in  Bega, NSW and the rego is VH-MVR) Stuart Hilsberg Vice-President Airtourer Association

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: The projects I know of that are on the boil: : GA-8  A light utility aircraft : Seeker and Sentinel : Air Cruiser : I also know that there are several homebuilts and ultralights around – : Jabiru, Skyfox, Eagle X – anyone know what the current status is? : : Does anyone else out there know of any other interesting projects : happening? Graeme Swannell in Perth designed the fully aerobatic "Maverick" John Corby’s sweet little Starlet. Frank Rodger’s redesign of the Jodel. Just wait until we get the monkey off the backs of the designers and have the Experimental category introduced. 66 Towton Way, Langford 6147, Western Australia               /       Corby Starlet Plans #279….SAAA 4330, Editor "Western Flyer"       V

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