Question:
As you might imagine, I put a lot of effort, faith, and trust in client selection.
I think we all do. But, we all get burned every now and then for various amounts of fees. Usually by the time you realize that it’s going to be uncollectable, it’s way to late to stop the work (it’s usually already done and delivered). — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia http://www.pat-cpa.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take the money (2/3) and run. Amen to that one <grin. Seriously, anything else is going be a waste of time since even if you *do* get something beyond the 2/3rds, you likely are going to spend far more time on getting that extra than you could make doing other, productive work for good clients. And you also run the risk (slight, but not totally off the charts) of the client either suing you for malpractice (a preemptive move they may make if they think you are going to sue them) or filing a complaint with any/all entities or organizations they can think of that might have an interest.
There are now questions on at least some professional liability applications asking about policy regarding unpaid fees. Liability carriers strongly discourage lawsuits over fees. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
There are now questions on at least some professional liability applications asking about policy regarding unpaid fees. Liability carriers strongly discourage lawsuits over fees.
And that’s a funny one too, because they want us to be able to pay the premium, yet not have any collection activity beyond the mere presentation of a bill. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia http://www.pat-cpa.com
Response:
Your Mileage May Vary.
You know, I had been wondering the very same thing that she had about this. I figured out the AFAIK and the others, but this one always had me stumped. The nearest I had ever come was Your Mother Married Valentino, but I couldn’t see the relevance of it. — Todd Stephens
Response:
Basically it’s a CYA. A similar one is HTH = Hope This Helps. Lucien — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Ft. Bragg plutonium arrangements Nazi Semtex obfuscation AK-47 GWB KGB
Response:
With the exception of certain stipulated SurvivalWorks fees, all of our fees are negotiable all of the time. We commonly base our tax preparation fees on the forms prepared, our traditional accounting services on the approximate time expended, and other services on some rational basis, all adjusted for economic reality. We do not use forced collection – ever. In the event of a dispute we negotiate. Ultimately we accept whatever our client wishes to pay us, even if it is $-0-. In the event our client thinks we have done an outstanding job and wants to pay us more the we have billed (it has happened), we graciously accept.
In the mobile Southeast Florida market I took a reverse approach. I only work without engagement letters WITH TEETH. Provisions suggested by the AICPA and the Florida CPA board limit my liability, require retainers, let me check client credit & provide for attorney fees and costs. However, arbitration is mandatory and costs include the time we spend trying to collect, at standard rates. I also can keep our work until clients pay for it. This is contrary to a recent state rule, but that should not apply with an express contrary agreement (I am sending Florida a copy, though I may not actually enforce the provision). I always had a personal guarantee of fees for existing corporations, but will now make clients liable for any person or entity for which they request service. Finally. I try to minimize disputes with a Credit If (the invoice is) Paid in 7 Days when time charges seem high. Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 Lowest QB Prices http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm Free 462p QB Book http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 200 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm
Response:
My thanks to all who responded. I will take your advice and chalk the balance up to "cost of learning whom to avoid". One further short question — Lucien had "YMMV" at the tail end of his reply — what does this stand for?
Your Milage May Vary. — http://cbbrowne.com/info/finances.html "The Amiga is proof that if you build a better mousetrap, the rats
Response:
The lesson is, of course, never let the client get ahead of you like that. You have no recourse, so it must be pay-as-you go…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks — Maybe someone out here has advice for me on how to handle this situation. I took on a client (details changed to protect the guilty), a small association that wanted to fire it’s management company and start to manage itself. My part was to get everything ready for the switch and get them set up in QuickBooks for receivables (they were already using it for payables). They insisted on a fixed-price contract, which I was underwhelmed about, but OK, they were nervous about time billing. So, now that the work is almost complete, they don’t want to pay me in full and have offered 2/3 of the agreed upon price and told me to not come back; they’d finish the work themselves. They are stating "tardiness in response" (if you send a business e-mail at 11:30 PM on Friday why would you expect a responce before Monday?), "lack of priority for our association" (where did they get _that_ from?) and "not completing the contract work" (trying to add in things that were never contracted for). One of the people involved in the group was an accounting manager at a (now defunct) local high-tech company, so it’s not like the stuff they left out of the contract but still expected done could be chalked up to lack of knowledge on his part. I don’t want to be bothered trying to take these dimwits to court, as it just devolves into a he said-she said fight, but neither do I want to settle for less than my full fee. I worked hard for these bozos and did everything and more that they contracted for, did it on time, and correctly. Any suggestions? ? Catherine
Response:
The lesson is, of course, never let the client get ahead of you like that. You have no recourse, so it must be pay-as-you go…
My own fee policy – as copied from my web site. Fees With the exception of certain stipulated SurvivalWorks fees, all of our fees are negotiable all of the time. We commonly base our tax preparation fees on the forms prepared, our traditional accounting services on the approximate time expended, and other services on some rational basis, all adjusted for economic reality. We do not use forced collection – ever. In the event of a dispute we negotiate. Ultimately we accept whatever our client wishes to pay us, even if it is $-0-. In the event our client thinks we have done an outstanding job and wants to pay us more the we have billed (it has happened), we graciously accept. http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/SERVICES.htm As you might imagine, I put a lot of effort, faith, and trust in client selection. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Response:
Take the money (2/3) and run.
Amen to that one <grin. Seriously, anything else is going be a waste of time since even if you *do* get something beyond the 2/3rds, you likely are going to spend far more time on getting that extra than you could make doing other, productive work for good clients. And you also run the risk (slight, but not totally off the charts) of the client either suing you for malpractice (a preemptive move they may make if they think you are going to sue them) or filing a complaint with any/all entities or organizations they can think of that might have an interest.
Response:
Sometimes we lick our wounds and move on. I’d get the cash they offered if it’s 2/3rds of your fee and return their materials, and move on. Else you’ll end up in court or just loosing. — Fast and accurate solutions to accounting software problems. MAS90 Sales & Service * Quickbooks Technical Support Accounting, Taxes & Bookkeeping Services Jack Hatfield
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for your reply. What you said is pretty much what I was thinking. There are a couple external forces that could possibly turn things around to some extent, but it will never again be the way it was 20 years ago. As the economy goes through down cycles and lenders realize they may not be able to rely on financial statements prepared by non-accountants in QuickBooks, the demand for attest services may increase. Also, the IRS audit rate will likely increase as the economy cycles down and Congress decides they "need" that extra revenue. This would result in more audit representation work and possibly more compliance work due to taxpayer fear of the IRS. In today’s environment, there is little incentive for small business to seek professional accounting services. They just enter their transactions into QuickBooks and TurboTax, then give the banker and the IRS whatever it spits out. The business owner and the banker don’t know or care whether its right and the IRS doesn’t have the resources to check.
Also, if they have questions they can post them on a forum and have the professionals answer them free of charge. No wonder our profession is dying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But enough about that, what I am really concerned with are where the opportunities are. In addition to providing QuickBooks support, what about training for QuickBooks and other popular software? Sort of a "if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em" type approach. Would having training available to the general public lead to more support work? A former boss of mine has done quite well focusing on audit representation for state tax incentives and audits. Most of his work comes from other CPAs with the agreement that he will not take their clients away. He has asked me to come to work for him on several occasions, but the pay raise he offered was not enough to justify the move (relocation or a very long commute would be required). He also has no intention of taking on a partner, so that opportunity does not look very promising long term. My two cents… To answer your question, "YES" — the small CPA firm, as we have known it, is dying. HOWEVER, it is entirely possible to make a business out of Quickbooks support, if you do it correctly. Take advantage of the fact that 80, maybe 90% of CPAs haven’t a clue how to deal with QB. Instead of fighting it, trying to convince clients they can’t do the job with QB, tell them "Sure you can. You just need a little help along the way". This works, you provide a great service that few other CPAs are currently up to providing, and you have happy customers. I would avoid over-focusing on tax compliance work, because over the coming several years it will go away for the most part, except for the wealthy few. If you have some IT background, good. You should keep in mind, though, that serious IT consumers are going to look at you as a CPA with a little IT knowledge. I fought this battle for years until I figured out that holding out as a CPA was actually HURTING my IT practice — only after I quit holding out as a CPA did I start getting the kinds of work that my IT background warranted. Now, I do not disclose my history as a CPA until I’ve shown a prospective client my capability in the IT area. The reason for this is a good one: Most CPAs considering themselves as IT pros simply are not up to serious challenges (setting up a WAN, for example, or diagnosing network problems, and software development, for sure). MCSE probably helps in this area. CPAs have been awfully slow to recognize that the old business model simply will not work in the future. I think if one goes into it with an understanding that a new business model is in place, it can still be a really good business. But the idea that the traditional "accounting and tax" practice is going to survive long-term is very short-sighted. I think one by-product of this situation is that you will have less opportunity to sell your practice at a later date, simply because you will be more specialized. I started a practice once and sold it to get seed money to start another business. Even then (10 years ago) I was lucky to find a buyer in my area that had the money to make a really good up-front payment. Had I been more specialized at that time (for example, a heavy IT practice) I think it would have been more difficult to find a buyer. I’ve seen physicians close their doors without a buyer because they were too specialized to find a buyer in their locality. So, the liquidation value may well suffer… David I would like to have your opinion on the current status of the small CPA office. I hear lots of talk about it being a dying industry. Is it a dying industry? What I have been hearing is write-up is on the decline due to Quickbooks, lendors and other third parties rarely require audits anymore and IRS audits are virtually non-existant. What is the up side? Where are the opportunities? The reason I am asking is that I am a CPA woking for a state government agency. I would like to take the plunge and go back into public accounting after a 13 year absence. Before taking my current job 13 years ago (my first one out of college), I worked part time in a small accounting office that generated virtually all its revenue from write-up and tax compliance. I always planned to go back into public practice, but never did. There has to be an up side. My areas of greatest experience are tax and IT, working mostly with IT in recent years.
Response:
Also, if they have questions they can post them on a forum and have the professionals answer them free of charge. No wonder our profession is dying.
Not_ necessarily_ true – a month ago I posted a question two times (on 4 different newsgroups) and got NO useful reply! I asked five IRS employees the same question before I got an answer I could go with and it was a simple "like kind exchange" auto trade–in question useing Form 8824 Perhaps if I asked it AFTER tax time I would have gotten lots of replies. ??? 
– ____ _ | ____o____/_| | o’
Response:
I would like to have your opinion on the current status of the small CPA office. I hear lots of talk about it being a dying industry. Is it a dying industry? What I have been hearing is write-up is on the decline due to Quickbooks, lendors and other third parties rarely require audits anymore and IRS audits are virtually non-existant. What is the up side? Where are the opportunities? The reason I am asking is that I am a CPA woking for a state government agency. I would like to take the plunge and go back into public accounting after a 13 year absence. Before taking my current job 13 years ago (my first one out of college), I worked part time in a small accounting office that generated virtually all its revenue from write-up and tax compliance. I always planned to go back into public practice, but never did. There has to be an up side. My areas of greatest experience are tax and IT, working mostly with IT in recent years.
Response:
My two cents… To answer your question, "YES" — the small CPA firm, as we have known it, is dying. HOWEVER, it is entirely possible to make a business out of Quickbooks support, if you do it correctly. Take advantage of the fact that 80, maybe 90% of CPAs haven’t a clue how to deal with QB. Instead of fighting it, trying to convince clients they can’t do the job with QB, tell them "Sure you can. You just need a little help along the way". This works, you provide a great service that few other CPAs are currently up to providing, and you have happy customers. I would avoid over-focusing on tax compliance work, because over the coming several years it will go away for the most part, except for the wealthy few. If you have some IT background, good. You should keep in mind, though, that serious IT consumers are going to look at you as a CPA with a little IT knowledge. I fought this battle for years until I figured out that holding out as a CPA was actually HURTING my IT practice — only after I quit holding out as a CPA did I start getting the kinds of work that my IT background warranted. Now, I do not disclose my history as a CPA until I’ve shown a prospective client my capability in the IT area. The reason for this is a good one: Most CPAs considering themselves as IT pros simply are not up to serious challenges (setting up a WAN, for example, or diagnosing network problems, and software development, for sure). MCSE probably helps in this area. CPAs have been awfully slow to recognize that the old business model simply will not work in the future. I think if one goes into it with an understanding that a new business model is in place, it can still be a really good business. But the idea that the traditional "accounting and tax" practice is going to survive long-term is very short-sighted. I think one by-product of this situation is that you will have less opportunity to sell your practice at a later date, simply because you will be more specialized. I started a practice once and sold it to get seed money to start another business. Even then (10 years ago) I was lucky to find a buyer in my area that had the money to make a really good up-front payment. Had I been more specialized at that time (for example, a heavy IT practice) I think it would have been more difficult to find a buyer. I’ve seen physicians close their doors without a buyer because they were too specialized to find a buyer in their locality. So, the liquidation value may well suffer… David
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to have your opinion on the current status of the small CPA office. I hear lots of talk about it being a dying industry. Is it a dying industry? What I have been hearing is write-up is on the decline due to Quickbooks, lendors and other third parties rarely require audits anymore and IRS audits are virtually non-existant. What is the up side? Where are the opportunities? The reason I am asking is that I am a CPA woking for a state government agency. I would like to take the plunge and go back into public accounting after a 13 year absence. Before taking my current job 13 years ago (my first one out of college), I worked part time in a small accounting office that generated virtually all its revenue from write-up and tax compliance. I always planned to go back into public practice, but never did. There has to be an up side. My areas of greatest experience are tax and IT, working mostly with IT in recent years.
Response:
Thanks for your reply. What you said is pretty much what I was thinking. There are a couple external forces that could possibly turn things around to some extent, but it will never again be the way it was 20 years ago. As the economy goes through down cycles and lenders realize they may not be able to rely on financial statements prepared by non-accountants in QuickBooks, the demand for attest services may increase. Also, the IRS audit rate will likely increase as the economy cycles down and Congress decides they "need" that extra revenue. This would result in more audit representation work and possibly more compliance work due to taxpayer fear of the IRS. In today’s environment, there is little incentive for small business to seek professional accounting services. They just enter their transactions into QuickBooks and TurboTax, then give the banker and the IRS whatever it spits out. The business owner and the banker don’t know or care whether its right and the IRS doesn’t have the resources to check. But enough about that, what I am really concerned with are where the opportunities are. In addition to providing QuickBooks support, what about training for QuickBooks and other popular software? Sort of a "if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em" type approach. Would having training available to the general public lead to more support work? A former boss of mine has done quite well focusing on audit representation for state tax incentives and audits. Most of his work comes from other CPAs with the agreement that he will not take their clients away. He has asked me to come to work for him on several occasions, but the pay raise he offered was not enough to justify the move (relocation or a very long commute would be required). He also has no intention of taking on a partner, so that opportunity does not look very promising long term.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My two cents… To answer your question, "YES" — the small CPA firm, as we have known it, is dying. HOWEVER, it is entirely possible to make a business out of Quickbooks support, if you do it correctly. Take advantage of the fact that 80, maybe 90% of CPAs haven’t a clue how to deal with QB. Instead of fighting it, trying to convince clients they can’t do the job with QB, tell them "Sure you can. You just need a little help along the way". This works, you provide a great service that few other CPAs are currently up to providing, and you have happy customers. I would avoid over-focusing on tax compliance work, because over the coming several years it will go away for the most part, except for the wealthy few. If you have some IT background, good. You should keep in mind, though, that serious IT consumers are going to look at you as a CPA with a little IT knowledge. I fought this battle for years until I figured out that holding out as a CPA was actually HURTING my IT practice — only after I quit holding out as a CPA did I start getting the kinds of work that my IT background warranted. Now, I do not disclose my history as a CPA until I’ve shown a prospective client my capability in the IT area. The reason for this is a good one: Most CPAs considering themselves as IT pros simply are not up to serious challenges (setting up a WAN, for example, or diagnosing network problems, and software development, for sure). MCSE probably helps in this area. CPAs have been awfully slow to recognize that the old business model simply will not work in the future. I think if one goes into it with an understanding that a new business model is in place, it can still be a really good business. But the idea that the traditional "accounting and tax" practice is going to survive long-term is very short-sighted. I think one by-product of this situation is that you will have less opportunity to sell your practice at a later date, simply because you will be more specialized. I started a practice once and sold it to get seed money to start another business. Even then (10 years ago) I was lucky to find a buyer in my area that had the money to make a really good up-front payment. Had I been more specialized at that time (for example, a heavy IT practice) I think it would have been more difficult to find a buyer. I’ve seen physicians close their doors without a buyer because they were too specialized to find a buyer in their locality. So, the liquidation value may well suffer… David I would like to have your opinion on the current status of the small CPA office. I hear lots of talk about it being a dying industry. Is it a dying industry? What I have been hearing is write-up is on the decline due to Quickbooks, lendors and other third parties rarely require audits anymore and IRS audits are virtually non-existant. What is the up side? Where are the opportunities? The reason I am asking is that I am a CPA woking for a state government agency. I would like to take the plunge and go back into public accounting after a 13 year absence. Before taking my current job 13 years ago (my first one out of college), I worked part time in a small accounting office that generated virtually all its revenue from write-up and tax compliance. I always planned to go back into public practice, but never did. There has to be an up side. My areas of greatest experience are tax and IT, working mostly with IT in recent years.
Response:
I would like to have your opinion on the current status of the small CPA office.
IMHO, just about like the farier, the year before Henry Ford started producing the model T. Today, the people who have horses still need them shod, but you can see the size of the market. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * * * Unemployed six years, and really beginning to enjoy it. * * From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia * * Ayn Rand was right *
Response:
Question:
In a previous article, dorothy5…@my-dejanews.com said: I posted: >> Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: >> http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html >i tried your mediation page and it was blank. what should i have done there?
Blush. I know, I screwed up. Try again, *without* the trailing slash that was in the first posting. The URL above should get you there. >also, would like to know what to do to petition in the state of Kansas to get >the children’s father to help pay college expenses. i haven’t found an >attory yet who thinks that the case can be won since the father is not of >moral character to do any contribution on his own. can you help?
No, I’m sorry; I’m a mediator, not an attorney, and you are talking about compelling a bioparent to contribute to expenses, and that takes a court order. You need a lawyer. Don’t take my word for it, but if several attorneys have told you that it’s not going to fly, they might be right. Good luck, though. Vicki — Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at http://www.urbanlegends.com/
Response:
In a previous article, "nancy g." <nan…@tiac.net> said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->At least for my browser, the page wasn’t completely BLANK, but had >a bunch of vertical lines, like the ones that divide a page into frames. >You could move these lines around with your mouse … >So what I figure is, this is some kind of a do-it-yourself Zen sort of >mediation exercise. You get the bio parents, and the step parents, and >the kids all together in front of the computer, and they slide these >little dividing lines back and forth and say "Now, this segment represents >the amount of child support you pay, and this segment represents the time >the kids get to spend with me on their vacation, and this little segment >over here represents the cost of their school sneakers …" and you keep >doing that until everyone’s in agreement with each other about it all. >Am I right, Vicki? Or did you maybe have, um, something else in mind?
Ah, no, no, that’s exactly right! Good for you! nancy figured it out! That’s what I had in mind, yes indeedy. Um-hum! Vicki (PS: Try it again.) — Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at http://www.urbanlegends.com/
Response:
nancy g. wrote: > (Anyone out there have any ideas for something equally as meaningful > as a locket that we could give to a teenage boy? I’m at a loss for > ideas here. I don’t want to have a memento to give her and not one > for him, even though I think he’d probably say he understands, but > neither do I want to give him just any old thing simply to keep things > fair.)
If you want to stick with the photograph holder, maybe a key chain or pocket watch would work. You could get him a frame for a favorite snap of him and his mom. What about a chain to hang something around his neck? Her class ring or wedding ring?
Response:
That’s what I did with my Mom’s ring for my sister (Mom died when she was 9 and she wasn’t real big on the picture around the neck thing). And if and when something happens to me my grnadson Bubba gets my class ring to wear around his neck. Sharyn Women For Fatherhood members.xoom.com/4dadz/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -janelaw wrote in message <362BC856.6EF49…@mailexcite.com>… >nancy g. wrote: >> (Anyone out there have any ideas for something equally as meaningful >> as a locket that we could give to a teenage boy? I’m at a loss for >> ideas here. I don’t want to have a memento to give her and not one >> for him, even though I think he’d probably say he understands, but >> neither do I want to give him just any old thing simply to keep things >> fair.) >If you want to stick with the photograph holder, maybe a key >chain or pocket watch would work. You could get him a frame for >a favorite snap of him and his mom. What about a chain to hang >something around his neck? Her class ring or wedding ring?
Response:
dorothy5…@my-dejanews.com wrote:
(to Vicki) > i tried your mediation page and it was blank. > what should i have done there?
When I read this remark, since I am a very curious person, I had to go and check it out myself. At least for my browser, the page wasn’t completely BLANK, but had a bunch of vertical lines, like the ones that divide a page into frames. You could move these lines around with your mouse … So what I figure is, this is some kind of a do-it-yourself Zen sort of mediation exercise. You get the bio parents, and the step parents, and the kids all together in front of the computer, and they slide these little dividing lines back and forth and say "Now, this segment represents the amount of child support you pay, and this segment represents the time the kids get to spend with me on their vacation, and this little segment over here represents the cost of their school sneakers …" and you keep doing that until everyone’s in agreement with each other about it all. Am I right, Vicki? Or did you maybe have, um, something else in mind? (grin) Hey, give me a break. It was a tough weekend, and I’m trying to put off the return to the weekday grind as long as I can … nancy g who actually would like to read some of the mediation page, now that we’ve pointed out to Vicki that it’s not there yet.
Response:
nancy g. wrote: > (Anyone out there have any ideas for something equally as meaningful > as a locket that we could give to a teenage boy? I’m at a loss for > ideas here. I don’t want to have a memento to give her and not one > for him, even though I think he’d probably say he understands, but > neither do I want to give him just any old thing simply to keep things > fair.)
Suggestions for a memento for a teenage boy… 1. A plant/shrub/rose that his mother loved (if any), planted outside his bedroom window, perhaps flowering at this time of year or on her birthday. 2. A a small fob watch and chain, with his mother’s photo inside the cover and perhaps an engraving. 3. A poster-sized enlargement of a holiday spot, house, beach etc. where your son remembers good times and thinks of his mum. 4. His mother’s wedding ring, to pass on to his future wife. 5. A bound bible with a dedication inside it from his mother’s funeral – eg. Ecclesiastes "A time to live…." 6. Setting up a ritual celebration of his Mum’s life – on a specific date each year – eg. a dinner, slide night. Obviously, I don’t know your son, but I have two teenage SSs myself, and your post got me thinking about what I could do for them if they ever were in the same situation…. Good luck and God Bless, Nancy….Yvette
Response:
In article <70dupg$56…@canoe.xcski.com>, vjr…@canoe.xcski.com (Vicki Robinson) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In a previous article, Merrie <mbringhu…@pon.net> said: > >I would also try to take > >into account that the youngest has the longest time to "grow" the funds > >before going to college. I was hoping there was some basic formulas for > >this one. > There are. Calculating the amount you’d need to purchase an annuity > is trivially easy. You pay a lump sum for an annuity that provides an > annual payment (that can be amortized, of course, over months) of a > particular amount. You assume a certain level of growth (say 7%) for > the principle, and each year the earnings and some portion of the > principle is used. At the end of the specified time interval the fund > is exhausted. This is frequently figured to decide how much > insurance a bioparent ought to carry on him or herself; you know how > much the parent is contributing to the support of the child, and he or > she must carry enough decreasing term insurance to buy an annuity that > will cover the remaining years of his or her obligation. > There are books of tables (and I’m sure there’re sites on the web) that > will allow you to calculate the lump sum that you would have to pay to > purchase such an annuity for a given time interval, given a particular > rate of growth. > You would figure on buying an annuity for each child, and figure the > amount of money you would need to buy that child’s annuity, given the > child’s age and the amount of support that the remaining bioparent > can provide. You’d want to refigure these amounts periodically, as the > kids grow and your period of obligation becomes shorter. The littler > one would need a different amount than the older. The younger child > *does* indeed have more time to grow the fund. Conversely, he will > need support for a longer time than an older child. > This is a simple calculation, though. See an accountant for details; > I am neither an accountant nor a lawyer, so, as always, consult a > professional! > Vicki > — > Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: > http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html/ > The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at > http://www.urbanlegends.com/
i tried your mediation page and it was blank. what should i have done there? also, would like to know what to do to petition in the state of Kansas to get the children’s father to help pay college expenses. i haven’t found an attory yet who thinks that the case can be won since the father is not of moral character to do any contribution on his own. can you help? ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <362B9A90.39E78…@tiac.net>, "nancy g." <nan…@tiac.net> wrote: > Kim Scheinberg wrote: > > We have assigned a guardian for our child who will also act as > > trustee (I know someone said naming an executor separate from a guardian > > is a good idea to avoid conflict of interests. But if I can trust someone > > with my child, I can surely trust them with my child’s money) > I’ve been told the same thing … that the trustee should be > someone different than the guardian. I think the idea is just to > make sure there’s two people involved rather than one, to prevent > any question about is the money actually going to benefit the > kids, as opposed to it benefitting the trustee (although in my heart > of course I agree with you, that the person who handles one ought > to be able to handle both!)
I think that whether or not you want your kid’s testamentary trust held by their guardian is a judgement call. In my case, my daughter’s guardians are wonderful people, great with kids and have two of their own. She is my best friend, and he is my ex-fiance. I have no trouble with them raising my daughter to be a happy and productive member of society. HOWEVER, neither of them has EVER been able to handle money worth a damn. He’s declared bankruptcy once, and I remember keeping her credit cards in my safe deposit box when we lived together! I don’t have any problem with them getting a monthly amount for the support of my child, just like child support. That is only reasonable. However, I know that if they had access to the entire amount, the temptation to ‘borrow’ from it to improve their general circumstances, ‘for the kids’ would be overwhelming… Sian
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Kim Scheinberg wrote:
(snipped, edited and rearranged!) We have assigned a guardian for our child who will also act as > trustee (I know someone said naming an executor separate from a guardian > is a good idea to avoid conflict of interests. But if I can trust someone > with my child, I can surely trust them with my child’s money)
I said it, but it was because I didn’t think I could trust the guardian with the step-kids money. Most of us have relatives that don’t treat the kids and stepkids fairly, and it would just be too easy to spend the money on the kids they would be raising and give little to the kids they never see. But we are in a situation where the financials must be out of BM hands, or their college funds will be up in smoke. > I can give you the particulars of how we sorted it out — half of what DH > currently has goes to me, the other half to his two kids. All of mine > will be divided between him and any children we may have. As we acquire > money, 1/2 is mine, 1/2 is his. My half will go to our child[ren]. 1/2 of > his (i.e. 1/4 of the total) will go to ours, and 1/2 to his. There is > insurance on both of us. He has a policy that provides for both me and his > children. Until his kids reach legal age, his ex will act as trustee of > that money.
Do you have specific instructions if you both pass on? I may be wrong but it seems like the estate gets divided differently depending on who passes first. If he passes first then 1/2 goes to his kids and 1/2 to you, two hours later you pass leaving your entire estate to your children meaning (assuming for simplicity sake that you and your spouse had equal amounts of the entire estate) that the step kids have 1/4 of the entire estate and your child has 3/4’s. However, if you pass first the 1/2 of your (half of entire estate) goes to your kid and half to your spouse, and when he passes two hours later I’m not sure what happens. a)The entire 3/4’s of the entire estate (that he now has)is divided equally amoung his (3) children, b) the half that was to go to you goes back to your estate? Which by the way would represent 3/8ths of the entire estate since two hours before he was bequeathed half of your half of the entire estate. In a) if you have one child – then the child receives 1/2 of the entire estate with the steps the other half splitting half and in b)your one child receives 5/8ths of the entire estate with the steps splitting 3/8ths. Maybe with the given intial amounts of both of your estates this doesn’t make a difference, but maybe it makes considerable difference and it was not what you intended and maybe you already took these possiblities under consideration. I don’t know, just wanted to point it out… > an organ donor card isn’t worth much if your spouse won’t > consent to it in the unlikely event you end up brain dead
On the most goulish note – I’ve okayed my donor card with the stipulation of my husbands consent because I wanted relatives to have first dibs. I also have not tied my husbands hands with the strict language of a living will because he knows my wishes at that point will become secondary to his. Merrie
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I think I see now… I misunderstood the "All of mine will be divided between him and any children we many have" to mean that he and your mutual kids would be dividing your portion of the estate. Rather, all of your portion will go to the mutual kids, and this is all done with specific amounts not percentages… Thanks for clarifying. Merrie
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yvette Campbell wrote: > Hello Nancy > I am sorry to hear of your families’ tragedy. > Mu single piece of advice is for you to put the children first. To do this > means that you are going to have to grow an extra 7 layers of skin. > The children must be allowed to talk about their BM as much and as often as > they wish. And you and BD and all of the other adults should listen, over > and over again. This is going to be hard to take, as the good memories of > BM are recalled and treasured, and she (BM) may start to sound like the > greatest mother that ever lived…It is important that you do not let this > get under your skin, as much as it will hurt…Recognise that with time, the > BM will be missed and discussed less, but that the children will ALWAYS > remember her. Set up a regular ritual of visiting her resting place. Let > the children have a photo of BM on their bedside table. Do any little thing > that makes the children more comfortable about where mum is. And don’t > hesitate to get professional grief counselling and family counselling at the > earliest opportunity if you start to feel that you are not coping. > Good luck and God bless, Yvette
I just thought of another thing. Make sure you tell BM’s widower that you want memorabilia and mementos for the children. Ask him not to get rid of her things without letting you pick out things for the kids. This can be tricky, because of course you don’t want to sound like a ghoul. The kids really need their mother’s "stuff," though. I’m not talking about things of objective value. I mean things like her high school year book, the books she read to them, the milk pitcher shaped like a cow that they used for cereal in the morning. Sometimes people just don’t think and ship all that stuff off to Goodwill because it is too painful to have around. Also, friends of mine whose parents died when they were children have said that they wished they had been allowed to talk about it more and that they had had pictures of the deceased in clear view. You might want to ask the people who came to BM’s funeral to write or tape some memory of her for the children. Jane
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Michael R. Martin wrote: > The only other thing I can think of is allowing the children to talk about > their mom. Some people, for some reason or other, never allow the grieving > to speak about the person who died. I think it’s some misbegotten way of > hoping they’ll heal faster.
Yep. I’ve known people who do stuff like that to kids, and it’s a *big* mistake, IMO. So far, everyone in her family (I’m mostly only talking about my future stepdaughter, btw, since she’s only 9 years old and she’s the one I’m most concerned about. There are two kids — the older one is 15 and he seems to be coping with it well enough. I feel for him, too, but I don’t see myself playing the Mom role in his life like I do for the little one.) Anyway, so far everyone seems to be allowing her to grieve the way she needs to, so I don’t think there will be any problem there. In fact, one of the ways she coped with the initial news of her mom’s death was to decide that *she* was going to be the one to tell people. Within the first few hours, she’d compiled a list by going through her dad’s telephone directory and was on the phone calling neighbors and acquaintances one by one, letting them know the news (her dad got on the phone after she talked to them, of course, and cleared up any details). I never would have thought of having a child do such a thing, and I was pretty surprised that she wanted to do it, but whatever her reasons were, it seems to have been just the thing she needed to do. I’m glad nobody tried to stop her. > Most of all, don’t forget the other step-parent. Didn’t I read where > the mom was remarried? Her husband helped raise the kids too. I have > a friend who knew his wife’s kids for three or four years. Then she decided > she wanted out of the marriage and suddenly he’s not allowed to see or > talk to them any more and I know he really misses it.
That would never happen in this case. Yes, Mom was remarried, but they had only been married for about a year and a half, and it was Dad (my S.O.) who has permanent custody … the kids knew and liked Mom’s new husband, but the actual amount of time they’d spent with him really only amounted to six weeks this past summer, plus a few other weeks here and there over the course of the previous year. He didn’t have any kids of his own, and although the kids both seem to like him, I don’t know how much of an actual parent figure they considered him to be. Also, he lives completely across the country, which makes it a bit tougher for them to visit back and forth. But there is no problem with them maintaining contact with each other, and I don’t expect it to become a problem in the future. We consider him part of the extended family, and he will always be treated that way. > My suggestions, for whatever they’re worth.
They’re worth a lot, Cindy. I appreciate everyone’s input at this point while I sort out all the things I should be thinking about.
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janelaw wrote: > I just thought of another thing. Make sure you tell BM’s > widower that you want memorabilia and mementos for the > children. Ask him not to get rid of her things without letting > you pick out things for the kids. This can be tricky, because > of course you don’t want to sound like a ghoul. The kids really > need their mother’s "stuff," though. I’m not talking about > things of objective value. I mean things like her high school > year book, the books she read to them, the milk pitcher shaped > like a cow that they used for cereal in the morning. Sometimes > people just don’t think and ship all that stuff off to Goodwill > because it is too painful to have around.
Nope. If anything, almost the opposite situation is occurring. Mom’s new husband went into their (relatively brief) marriage with a full household of furniture and things of his own, and most of what she brought into their marriage — things that she’d brought away from her *first* marriage — is going to wind up coming back to my S.O. and the kids. Since she had taken quite a large share of their property when she left, and since she’s been in a better financial situation than he has since that time, there’s actually an entire household full of furniture and other belongings that’s going to be shipped back to him … much more than he has room for in his house now, even without thinking about the stuff that *I* will be bringing to the family when we finally all get together. His little girl already has a few boxes of things she brought from Mommy’s house while they were out there for the funeral, and she’ll get full choice of any of the rest of it that comes back. In fact, I may have to step in and get Dad to convince her that she really doesn’t need to wear *all* of Mommy’s clothes and jewelry and makeup … sigh. He indulges her, as I guess the youngest child and only girl will always be indulged by a Dad, and I think the toughest thing might be to convince him that it’s probably best to put *some* of the stuff away and only keep a certain number of special items around for everyday use. > Also, friends of mine whose parents died when they were children > have said that they wished they had been allowed to talk about > it more and that they had had pictures of the deceased in clear > view.
My daughters and I have bought her a locket with a place for her mom’s photo in it. We’re going to give it to her the next time we get together with them. They’ve always had plenty of photo albums of Mommy around the house, and I have to admit I haven’t really felt comfortable looking through them, but I know that’s my own personal problem and I would never think of telling her she can’t have pictures of her Mom around. I may try to keep them in her room as much as possible but I think I can be grown up enough not to make a big deal out of it. I don’t mind at all the thought of her having another Mom, but I’m still uncomfortable thinking of my S.O. with a different spouse. And YES, I know this is a bit unreasonable, and I figure I’ll get over it in time. (Anyone out there have any ideas for something equally as meaningful as a locket that we could give to a teenage boy? I’m at a loss for ideas here. I don’t want to have a memento to give her and not one for him, even though I think he’d probably say he understands, but neither do I want to give him just any old thing simply to keep things fair.) > You might want to ask the people who came to BM’s funeral to > write or tape some memory of her for the children.
This is something else that we’re hearing a lot of people advising. Actually, many of the people who have memories of her are closer to where the kids live than to where Mom lived — she had moved far away to start her new life, but the kids still live in the neighborhood where the whole family lived, so there’s plenty of old friends around. So far, I think we’re all doing OK. Time will tell, I guess. nancy g.
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Vicki Robinson wrote: > As to the rest, please don’t think of your step-daughter as being > "stuck" with you; realize, from your adult perspective, that you will > be a good person for her to have.
Well, I think the "stuck with me" part was reflecting what *her* point of view is likely going to be, not every day, I hope, but at those times in her life when she and I both would really appreciate having her first mom there with her. But you’re right, I’m looking too far into the future here, and predicting scenarios that may never take place at all. > The really hard part is going to be > when she tells you that she wishes you’d died instead. > But you’ll understand it and be able to love her anyway.
Yep. But for some reason, that part of it I think I’ll be able to handle pretty well. We’ve already gotten through several months of her telling me "IF you and my daddy get married …" (starting after we’d already told her that we WERE going to marry each other) and I found that I was able to remove myself just enough to not let her words affect me personally, so I assume any comments about her bio mom will go the same way. At least I can hope that’s how it will happen. > I wonder, though, if some family therapy wouldn’t be a good idea; a > parent’s death is hugely traumatic to a child, and a parent’s marriage > is too. To move to a new house is more stress points, to a new school > is even a greater load. To have all of this happening at once is an > enormous amount of stress for anyone, and for a 9 yo child it could be > overwhelming. Some professional help for all of you, in a > crisis-intervention mode might be a good relief valve.
Well, the actual events aren’t going to be quite as compressed as that … the wedding itself probably won’t be for at least another year, and the move, well, we’re still working out the details of that. We know the ideal situation would be to start fresh in a new house for the new blended family, but financial realities may mean that we have to move into his house (where we *would* be crowded) for some time, maybe even a year or more. Better for his children, perhaps, but worse for mine, so there’s a trade-off. And sometimes I wonder if maybe it wouldn’t be better to just do it all in one fell swoop, to totally upend everyone’s lives all at once, but to do it and get it done and over with so we can go on from there. However, it’s not up to us as far as the timing goes. We’re waiting for things that are out of our control and so we just take them as they come. > You and your > fiance are too close to render the kind of help that an uninvolved > professional can. I think you’ll all get along without it, too, > but I suspect that it could help.
That’s my opinion too, but his family has had some pretty bad experiences with counseling in the past, and he’s (understandably, maybe) opposed to trying it now. I’m keeping a close eye on how his kids are doing and if I really felt there was the need for it, I’d do my best to see that they get some help. So far, all of them seem to be doing OK, but I know there will be a lot of rough patches in the months to come, especially through the holidays. I’m keeping my eye on the situation. > In any case, take your time, trust your instincts and pray a lot.
That’s what’s gotten us through so far. The things that have worked out the best for us have been the times when we’ve just closed our eyes and gone ahead blindly because we just *felt* that it was right, and it’s all worked out, so I guess we’ll continue to plunge ahead that way and hope whatever’s been taking care of us all will continue to do so. One day at a time. All we can do, really, any of us. Thanks for the thoughts. (Oh, and I *finally* got a reply written to that "who are we" thread you started, too!)
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Merrie wrote: > A side note on the life insurance, and that is that you can carry a > policy on a former spouse. In your case she carried one on herself, but > your SO could have carried one on her also. For many of the posters > here with BPD ex’s I don’t think it would be a bad idea.
This is something that had never even occurred to me, and yet it does seem like a practical idea. I guess it’s so morbid just to think about taking out a policy on someone else’s life … almost like, I don’t know, like you’re planning how you can benefit from their death. But that is a pretty unrealistic attitude, I do realize that, since we all know we’re going to go *sometime* and since we do have the next generation to watch out for and provide for. One other (totally unrelated to step-parenting) idea that I’ve come across in all my researching and thinking about this topic is that a life insurance policy is also a good way of leaving money to a favorite charity or cause … you can take out one of the most basic, inexpensive policies on your own life and make the charity the beneficiary. That’s on my list now of things to consider doing. > I started work on our trust well over a year ago and haven’t completed > it. One of my problems is how to allocate the insurance funds if both > my husband and myself pass on.
I’m glad you asked this question — it gave me something to think about, and I saw Vicki’s answer, which provided some answers and some more details of exactly what to ask the professionals when I finally am ready to commit all this stuff to paper. My situation is complicated a bit by the fact that we are not yet married or even living in the same household, although if all goes well we hope to be within about a year — but I don’t want to leave all this up in the air, just in case something should happen in the meantime. I’ve learned the hard way that things *can* happen out of the blue, unexpectedly, even to plain old ordinary people just like us — and I don’t want to be remembered as "that mom whose kids didn’t have any money for college because she just hadn’t got around to filling in all the forms and doing all the paperwork." Thanks for the reply and for the things to think about.
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Kim Scheinberg wrote: > We have assigned a guardian for our child who will also act as > trustee (I know someone said naming an executor separate from a guardian > is a good idea to avoid conflict of interests. But if I can trust someone > with my child, I can surely trust them with my child’s money)
I’ve been told the same thing … that the trustee should be someone different than the guardian. I think the idea is just to make sure there’s two people involved rather than one, to prevent any question about is the money actually going to benefit the kids, as opposed to it benefitting the trustee (although in my heart of course I agree with you, that the person who handles one ought to be able to handle both!) On the other hand, if the situation were reversed and he died and left me with his kids, I’d feel quite able to parent them and take care of them, but I would feel *very* unsure of my ability to manage and invest any insurance money he’d leave them (coupled with the money his ex has just provided them with) … and in such a case, I would *much* rather find out that somebody who knows and understands financial affairs better than I do had been put in charge of it. So I guess part of it depends on what you each feel comfortable doing. If I found out he’d put someone else in charge of the trust, I would feel relieved, not insulted. I tend to look at any money I might leave as being more of a college fund, to be invested for the future, rather than for something to provide a regular amount to cover the daily living expenses, and maybe that makes a difference somehow. I don’t know yet. Still need to think this all through. > The way we’ve > decided to deal with this is to update the wills every year.
Yuck. The thought of that makes me wince. Which means it’s probably a *very* good idea (grin). I just hate sitting down and going through all this stuff and tend to put it off as long as possible — so having a plan like doing it annually is a really good one. Otherwise, I know I’d keep saying "Oh yeah, I’ll get to that …" and then never would. > (That is, if you have a $1M insurance policy, $375,000 of that will be > taxed unless someone else "owns" that policy).
Right. That’s another point I’ve been told, to make sure that the person who’s insured is not the person who’s the owner of the policy. Something else to look into. This is good, that we’re all getting all this input which at least helps us come up with a list of questions to ask the professionals or gives ideas of areas where we need to do a little more research first. > One last thought… having detailed directions about how your death is to > be handled makes things easier (and it’s *much* eaier if your spouse is in > agreement — an organ donor card isn’t worth much if your spouse won’t > consent to it in the unlikely event you end up brain dead).
Yep. That’s something his ex had done, and it made things much easier … especially since he and her new husband both knew what she wanted, and she also had it in writing, so that made it much easier for them to face down her bio family, who apparently wanted to do something totally different. > -k. who doesn’t plan on dying any time soon, either
I can’t … there’s still too much stuff on my Things-To-Do list!!
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In a previous article, "nancy g." <nan…@tiac.net> said: >Kim Scheinberg wrote: >> We have assigned a guardian for our child who will also act as >> trustee (I know someone said naming an executor separate from a guardian >> is a good idea to avoid conflict of interests. But if I can trust someone >> with my child, I can surely trust them with my child’s money) >I’ve been told the same thing … that the trustee should be >someone different than the guardian. I think the idea is just to >make sure there’s two people involved rather than one, to prevent >any question about is the money actually going to benefit the >kids, as opposed to it benefitting the trustee (although in my heart >of course I agree with you, that the person who handles one ought >to be able to handle both!)
Ought to be able to, yes. *Is* able to, I dunno. If I die, my ex gets the kids and I have every confidence that he’ll provide for them. (Their money *does* go into trust, but that is to prevent my ex’s children, my first steps, from inheriting 60% of my estate if he dies after I do.) But for some of y’all out there, the kids would go to an ex who is irresponsible and would not look after the kids’ money intelligently. We all know people who never think past today and will spend what they have, whether it’s $1000 or $100,000. If your ex, who will get your kids if you die, is one of these people, you’d better put it in trust to be doled out with the trustee’s approval. So, if the guardian is someone whom you’ve been able to choose, and therefore trust, I dont’ see why the guardian can’t control the kids’ money, too. But if the kids will go to an untrustworthy bioparent (and you *don’t* have a lot of control over that), then you might want to be sure to have someone else control the purse strings. Vicki — Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html/ The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at http://www.urbanlegends.com/
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Thanks Vicki – The idea of figuring for each child was the key – I kept trying to work it from the other end where I have this lump sum and have to divide it up fairly. Merrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Vicki Robinson wrote: > In a previous article, Merrie <mbringhu…@pon.net> said: > >I would also try to take > >into account that the youngest has the longest time to "grow" the funds > >before going to college. I was hoping there was some basic formulas for > >this one. > There are. Calculating the amount you’d need to purchase an annuity > is trivially easy. You pay a lump sum for an annuity that provides an > annual payment (that can be amortized, of course, over months) of a > particular amount. You assume a certain level of growth (say 7%) for > the principle, and each year the earnings and some portion of the > principle is used. At the end of the specified time interval the fund > is exhausted. This is frequently figured to decide how much > insurance a bioparent ought to carry on him or herself; you know how > much the parent is contributing to the support of the child, and he or > she must carry enough decreasing term insurance to buy an annuity that > will cover the remaining years of his or her obligation. > There are books of tables (and I’m sure there’re sites on the web) that > will allow you to calculate the lump sum that you would have to pay to > purchase such an annuity for a given time interval, given a particular > rate of growth. > You would figure on buying an annuity for each child, and figure the > amount of money you would need to buy that child’s annuity, given the > child’s age and the amount of support that the remaining bioparent > can provide. You’d want to refigure these amounts periodically, as the > kids grow and your period of obligation becomes shorter. The littler > one would need a different amount than the older. The younger child > *does* indeed have more time to grow the fund. Conversely, he will > need support for a longer time than an older child. > This is a simple calculation, though. See an accountant for details; > I am neither an accountant nor a lawyer, so, as always, consult a > professional! > Vicki > — > Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: > http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html/ > The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at > http://www.urbanlegends.com/
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Nancy, I think this is THE major life event, but I think I know what kinds of things you were referring to. My husband’s father passed away shortly after I came into his life and I know that by just being there that it was a comfort. One of my mistakes though, was that I didn’t think I would go to the funeral – rather I thought I would stay with the children and just take care of them. My husband wanted us all to go and I was rather unprepared and basically lost at the service. So I guess being prepared would be the only thing. Have you begun reading/researching the topics of kids dealing with the death of a parent? Perhaps someone has some good referrals, I’m sorry I don’t have any. A side note on the life insurance, and that is that you can carry a policy on a former spouse. In your case she carried one on herself, but your SO could have carried one on her also. For many of the posters here with BPD ex’s I don’t think it would be a bad idea. I started work on our trust well over a year ago and haven’t completed it. One of my problems is how to allocate the insurance funds if both my husband and myself pass on. I’m looking for suggestions on how to do this given that the two stepsons are 16 and 14, and the bio-children are 8, 7 and nearly 2. We’d like to make sure that whoever raises the bio-children have adequate funds to do so and that all the kids have some funds for college, that my steps bio-mom doesn’t obtaind the funds allocated to the step kids and blows it all. I would also try to take into account that the youngest has the longest time to "grow" the funds before going to college. I was hoping there was some basic formulas for this one. One of the things we decided upon was that the executor of the trust would not be the same person that would care for the bio-children. Presumably, the steps would go back to their bio-mom. We thought that it would be too compelling for the person with the bio-kids to want all the funds. We also wanted the executor of the trust to give the step-kids funds on a reasonable basis until they were old enough to manage it on their own. That’s all I’ve done so far… not very helpful. I don’t think this even applies to you. Take care. Merrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nancy g. wrote: > Well, it’s been a hellish week here, as my S.O. and his kids deal with > the aftermath of the tragic death of his ex-wife, which happened over > on the other side of the country. He, his two kids, and her new husband > have been there dealing with the vast amounts of paperwork and legal > details involved (as well as all the emotional stuff, of course) and > I’m home here with my two kids, thinking about what kind of baggage I’d > be leaving behind if something happened to me unexpectedly. > So I’ve decided to act like a grownup (for one of the few times in my life!) > and try to arrange my financial life in the best possible way for anyone > who has to straighten it all out after I’m gone. I imagine some of you > must have gone through this already, so I’m asking — not for legal or > financial advice, of course, I do realize this is only a Usenet newsgroup > and not a law or accounting office — but for any hints, things learned > from experience, advice that you’ve been given, things you wish you’d > known about but learned to late … in short, anything that might help > my kids and my loved ones have the least possible aggravation to deal with > just in case something happens sooner than I hope it’s going to (of course, > I *plan* to live a healthy happy life until I’m at least 100 years old!) > One small silver lining found in this horrible cloud is that it turns out > his ex had been keeping up on the payments of her life insurance, and > there will be some insurance from where she worked, as well, so at least > the kids are going to be guaranteed the money for a good college education, > no matter what they want to do or where they decide to go. If something this > sad had to happen to them, at least this will make part of their future a bit > easier because of it. > I’m still sorting out all the emotions involved. I had never met the woman, > or even spoken to her (since my S.O. and I aren’t married yet and are still > living in separate households) but I’d heard enough about her to know that > she had the potential for causing all of us a great deal of trouble … now > I can put those worries out of my mind, at least; but in return, I need to know > how to become a stepmom to a little girl who now, all of a sudden, is going to > have *me* as the *only* mom she’ll ever have for the rest of her life. I’d > always figured I’d be the background figure for major life events like her > graduation, wedding, etc., and her *first* mom would be taking the primary > place of honor … I was prepared for this, and figured I’d be able to let > bio-mom take her rightful place in his little girl’s life even though I’d be > the one who did most of the day-to-day stuff. Now it looks like she’ll be stuck > with me, the substitute mom, whether she wants to or not. Well, I’m ready to > do this, but I don’t know how good a job I’ll do of it. I feel like our lives > are all still caught in the spin cycle … guess I’ll just have to wait and see > where we stand when it all stops. There’s years to go anyway, before we get to > the big events in her life, since she’s only 9, but I still feel terribly bad > for her, knowing she’ll never be able to say "Well, at MY Mommy’s house …" > again. Even though sometimes it annoyed me to hear her say things like that, > I know it was a real necessity for her to have that support behind her, and > I don’t know how to help her deal with the fact that it’s been yanked away. > Sigh. Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice. As you can tell, I’m in > need of a lot of it, about a lot of different issues. > And thanks to everyone for the bunch of e-mails I got for my previous post > about bio-mom’s death. They were tremendously helpful. I forwarded many > quotes from them to my S.O. and he sends his thanks too. > nancy g > still trying to sort things out … sigh …
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> As to the rest, please don’t think of your step-daughter as being > "stuck" with you; realize, from your adult perspective, that you will > be a good person for her to have. The really hard part is going to be > when she tells you that she wishes you’d died instead. But you’ll > understand it and be able to love her anyway. >OUCH! OUCH! OUCH! But I think I’d prefer to hear it from Vicki first…
Merrie
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Hello Nancy I am sorry to hear of your families’ tragedy. Mu single piece of advice is for you to put the children first. To do this means that you are going to have to grow an extra 7 layers of skin. The children must be allowed to talk about their BM as much and as often as they wish. And you and BD and all of the other adults should listen, over and over again. This is going to be hard to take, as the good memories of BM are recalled and treasured, and she (BM) may start to sound like the greatest mother that ever lived…It is important that you do not let this get under your skin, as much as it will hurt…Recognise that with time, the BM will be missed and discussed less, but that the children will ALWAYS remember her. Set up a regular ritual of visiting her resting place. Let the children have a photo of BM on their bedside table. Do any little thing that makes the children more comfortable about where mum is. And don’t hesitate to get professional grief counselling and family counselling at the earliest opportunity if you start to feel that you are not coping. Good luck and God bless, Yvette
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Someone suggested a book for the kids. I don’t know what age group this book is geared for, but it’s called "Freddy, the Leaf". I had a very special uncle (aren’t they all) die two years ago and my aunt bought this book for their grandkids who were between a couple months and the oldest somewhere between 7 and 9. It’s about the changing of the leaves and how they fall off the trees, you know it’s going to happen, but you never know when type of thing. Told more or less from the leaf’s perspective (yes, I read it when I went up for the Memorial Service). Wills, Insurance, Guardianship of children are all good suggestions. I know once my daughter was born, I immediately thought of that because I worked for an insurance company and I also had a situation the year before she was born where I almost died. Haven’t done anything it legally, but will be working on that soon. The only other thing I can think of is allowing the children to talk about their mom. Some people, for some reason or other, never allow the grieving to speak about the person who died. I think it’s some misbegotten way of hoping they’ll heal faster. If the kids are having a bad day, ask them how things worked at their moms, what they did together, etc. Most of all, don’t forget the other step-parent. Didn’t I read where the mom was remarried? Her husband helped raise the kids too. I have a friend who knew his wife’s kids for three or four years. Then she decided she wanted out of the marriage and suddenly he’s not allowed to see or talk to them any more and I know he really misses it. My suggestions, for whatever they’re worth. Cindy Martin sha…@mvp.net hu…@mindless.com http://mvp.net/~shadow/ St.John, Missouri 63114 A member of the "HTML Writers Guild" A day’s not complete without getting into a little "trouble".
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In a previous article, Merrie <mbringhu…@pon.net> said: >I would also try to take >into account that the youngest has the longest time to "grow" the funds >before going to college. I was hoping there was some basic formulas for >this one.
There are. Calculating the amount you’d need to purchase an annuity is trivially easy. You pay a lump sum for an annuity that provides an annual payment (that can be amortized, of course, over months) of a particular amount. You assume a certain level of growth (say 7%) for the principle, and each year the earnings and some portion of the principle is used. At the end of the specified time interval the fund is exhausted. This is frequently figured to decide how much insurance a bioparent ought to carry on him or herself; you know how much the parent is contributing to the support of the child, and he or she must carry enough decreasing term insurance to buy an annuity that will cover the remaining years of his or her obligation. There are books of tables (and I’m sure there’re sites on the web) that will allow you to calculate the lump sum that you would have to pay to purchase such an annuity for a given time interval, given a particular rate of growth. You would figure on buying an annuity for each child, and figure the amount of money you would need to buy that child’s annuity, given the child’s age and the amount of support that the remaining bioparent can provide. You’d want to refigure these amounts periodically, as the kids grow and your period of obligation becomes shorter. The littler one would need a different amount than the older. The younger child *does* indeed have more time to grow the fund. Conversely, he will need support for a longer time than an older child. This is a simple calculation, though. See an accountant for details; I am neither an accountant nor a lawyer, so, as always, consult a professional! Vicki — Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html/ The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at http://www.urbanlegends.com/
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In a previous article, "nancy g." <nan…@tiac.net> said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well, it’s been a hellish week here, as my S.O. and his kids deal with >the aftermath of the tragic death of his ex-wife, which happened over >on the other side of the country. [snip] >I need to know >how to become a stepmom to a little girl who now, all of a sudden, is going to >have *me* as the *only* mom she’ll ever have for the rest of her life. I’d >always figured I’d be the background figure for major life events like her >graduation, wedding, etc., and her *first* mom would be taking the primary >place of honor … [snip] >Now it looks like she’ll be stuck >with me, the substitute mom, whether she wants to or not. Well, I’m ready to >do this, but I don’t know how good a job I’ll do of it. [snip] >guess I’ll just have to wait and see >where we stand when it all stops. >Sigh. Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice. As you can tell, I’m in >need of a lot of it, about a lot of different issues.
Oy, an important post, with many many thoughtful questions and puzzles. I have no advice for you about putting your financial house in order, except to say thanks. It’s something I’ve been putting off too, for too long. I’ll call my lawyer tomorrow to review my will. As to the rest, please don’t think of your step-daughter as being "stuck" with you; realize, from your adult perspective, that you will be a good person for her to have. The really hard part is going to be when she tells you that she wishes you’d died instead. But you’ll understand it and be able to love her anyway. My tentative advice would be to simply take the time it takes. That’ll be years, but that’s ok. You’re trying to help a little girl grow, and that takes years too. Your relationship with her would have grown and changed and shifted and developed even if her mother were still alive. In that way, nothing has changed. The path that your relationship will take has probably changed, although there is no way to know that. You don’t know what would have been, you don’t know what will be. All you can do is do it the best way you can, always taking the long view. You can do it, too, Nancy. The good sense, the intelligence and compassion and genuine-ness you’ve shown on this group (and in some others that we both frequent) will enable you to know what to do when you need to do it. You have your own kids, you know how much of it is informed guesswork, how many decisions are simply the best ones you could make at the time you made them, nothing more or less. You have your DH, you have your own kids, you can do this. I wonder, though, if some family therapy wouldn’t be a good idea; a parent’s death is hugely traumatic to a child, and a parent’s marriage is too. To move to a new house is more stress points, to a new school is even a greater load. To have all of this happening at once is an enormous amount of stress for anyone, and for a 9 yo child it could be overwhelming. Some professional help for all of you, in a crisis-intervention mode might be a good relief valve. You and your fiance are too close to render the kind of help that an uninvolved professional can. I think you’ll all get along without it, too, but I suspect that it could help. In any case, take your time, trust your instincts and pray a lot. I’m thinking of all of you. Vicki — Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources: http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at http://www.urbanlegends.com.
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Well, it’s been a hellish week here, as my S.O. and his kids deal with the aftermath of the tragic death of his ex-wife, which happened over on the other side of the country. He, his two kids, and her new husband have been there dealing with the vast amounts of paperwork and legal details involved (as well as all the emotional stuff, of course) and I’m home here with my two kids, thinking about what kind of baggage I’d be leaving behind if something happened to me unexpectedly. So I’ve decided to act like a grownup (for one of the few times in my life!) and try to arrange my financial life in the best possible way for anyone who has to straighten it all out after I’m gone. I imagine some of you must have gone through this already, so I’m asking — not for legal or financial advice, of course, I do realize this is only a Usenet newsgroup and not a law or accounting office — but for any hints, things learned from experience, advice that you’ve been given, things you wish you’d known about but learned to late … in short, anything that might help my kids and my loved ones have the least possible aggravation to deal with just in case something happens sooner than I hope it’s going to (of course, I *plan* to live a healthy happy life until I’m at least 100 years old!) One small silver lining found in this horrible cloud is that it turns out his ex had been keeping up on the payments of her life insurance, and there will be some insurance from where she worked, as well, so at least the kids are going to be guaranteed the money for a good college education, no matter what they want to do or where they decide to go. If something this sad had to happen to them, at least this will make part of their future a bit easier because of it. I’m still sorting out all the emotions involved. I had never met the woman, or even spoken to her (since my S.O. and I aren’t married yet and are still living in separate households) but I’d heard enough about her to know that she had the potential for causing all of us a great deal of trouble … now I can put those worries out of my mind, at least; but in return, I need to know how to become a stepmom to a little girl who now, all of a sudden, is going to have *me* as the *only* mom she’ll ever have for the rest of her life. I’d always figured I’d be the background figure for major life events like her graduation, wedding, etc., and her *first* mom would be taking the primary place of honor … I was prepared for this, and figured I’d be able to let bio-mom take her rightful place in his little girl’s life even though I’d be the one who did most of the day-to-day stuff. Now it looks like she’ll be stuck with me, the substitute mom, whether she wants to or not. Well, I’m ready to do this, but I don’t know how good a job I’ll do of it. I feel like our lives are all still caught in the spin cycle … guess I’ll just have to wait and see where we stand when it all stops. There’s years to go anyway, before we get to the big events in her life, since she’s only 9, but I still feel terribly bad for her, knowing she’ll never be able to say "Well, at MY Mommy’s house …" again. Even though sometimes it annoyed me to hear her say things like that, I know it was a real necessity for her to have that support behind her, and I don’t know how to help her deal with the fact that it’s been yanked away. Sigh. Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice. As you can tell, I’m in need of a lot of it, about a lot of different issues. And thanks to everyone for the bunch of e-mails I got for my previous post about bio-mom’s death. They were tremendously helpful. I forwarded many quotes from them to my S.O. and he sends his thanks too. nancy g still trying to sort things out … sigh …
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Question:
without a doubt, secrets of the beehive is his quintessential album. however, one of his all time great songs is on a solo album put out by former japan bassist mick karn. the name of the song is "buoy" and has to be heard!!! Although ‘Bouy’ is good, I think the other Sylvian / Karn track ‘When Love Walks In’ is much better, Simon. Fujitsu Fulcrum Telecommunications Ltd, Birmingham, Condition "BRAIN_OVERLOAD$" raised at ENGLAND. 5412(0)/12234
You have to admit though that When Love Walk’s In sounds somewhat Dalis Car-ish era Mick Karn (Don’t get me wrong, I adore Dalis Car) and Buoy is something unique. Ernie
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| I don’t know about any discography, but I try from my memory: | | DAVID SYLVIAN SOLO: | | "Taking the Well" and other singles I suppose ^^^^ Veil "Alchemy/ An Index of Possibilities" lp (Virgin 1985)(on tape only?) | DAVID SYLVIAN & HOLGER CZUKAY : two lp’s "Flux & Mutability" lp (Virgin 1989) | RAIN THREE CROW : one lp and one (?) ep. ^^^^^ TREE – Carlo Nardone, Parcomp Group, CRS4, P.O.Box 488, I-09124 Cagliari, Italy Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness. — Beckett
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Does anyone know of a song with a sample from the John Water’s film, "Hairspray." The sample is of the protaganist saying, "I don’t know about you but I feel like dancing." I think it may be on a nine inch nails single but I’m really not sure. Thanks in advance, robert.
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without a doubt, secrets of the beehive is his quintessential album.
Well, there’s no accounting for taste. I found Secrets a big dissappointment after "Gone to Earth," which I think was his quintessential album before his recent work with Rober Fripp. I really like the trippy excursions of the tracks off of "First Day." By the way, Sylvian’s box set contains "Gone to Earth" in its entirety (2 disks), which is quite different from the single-disk release that’s all chopped up. Virgin Records really knows how to take advantage of the consumers. Mike
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I’m really interested in hearing more David Sylvian, all I have is _Secrets of the Beehive_ and I’d like to get some more. Could someone in the know post (or direct me to) a Sylvian discography? Thanks, Possum = "I sing the body electric . . ."
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without a doubt, secrets of the beehive is his quintessential album. however, one of his all time great songs is on a solo album put out by former japan bassist mick karn. the name of the song is "buoy" and has to be heard!!!
Response:
without a doubt, secrets of the beehive is his quintessential album. however, one of his all time great songs is on a solo album put out by former japan bassist mick karn. the name of the song is "buoy" and has to be heard!!!
Although ‘Bouy’ is good, I think the other Sylvian / Karn track ‘When Love Walks In’ is much better, Simon. Fujitsu Fulcrum Telecommunications Ltd, Birmingham, Condition "BRAIN_OVERLOAD$" raised at ENGLAND. 5412(0)/12234
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xxxxx (sorry) "When Love Walks In" is a must listen. I’d also add "Orpheus" from Secrets, "Ghosts" from Tin Drum and Oil On Canvas, "Forbidden Colours" original version from Merry Christmas Mr Lawerence soundtrack, "Nostalgia" from
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xxxxx (sorry) "When Love Walks In" is a must listen. I’d also add "Orpheus" from Secrets, "Ghosts" from Tin Drum and Oil On Canvas, "Forbidden Colours" original version from Merry Christmas Mr Lawerence soundtrack, "Nostalgia" from
I prefer the "acoustic" version of Forbidden Colours on the Red Guitar 12". Another goodie is Heartbeat…the effort with Sakamoto and Sylvian’s wife (what’s her name?) — Douglas Chow / d.j. Keiko | I THINK THEREFORE I AMBIENT Ottawa, CANADA | when you were young?
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Keep an eye out for a promo disc with Sylvian and Fripp. It comes from the U.S. and goes through Sylvian’s discography back to the last Japan album.
Is there any previously-unreleased material on this disc? His voice is definitely what makes him so great.
Watch out, lots of people can’t stand his mannered vocals. But I agree with you, FWIW. — Larry Spence netcom.com!cs.com!larry
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: : Keep an eye out for a promo : disc with Sylvian and Fripp. It comes from the U.S. and goes through : Sylvian’s discography back to the last Japan album. : Is there any previously-unreleased material on this disc? : His voice is definitely what makes him so great. : Watch out, lots of people can’t stand his mannered vocals. But I agree : with you, FWIW. : — : Larry Spence : netcom.com!cs.com!larry re: Sylvian promo (called God’s Monkey: A Retrospective) All tracks on the disc have been previously released, but a good mix of songs anyway. It also comes with a nice cover on it, something different for a promo.
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I’m really interested in hearing more David Sylvian, all I have is _Secrets of the Beehive_ and I’d like to get some more. Could someone in the know post (or direct me to) a Sylvian discography?
Here is the FAQ for the Sylvian mailing list. It has, among other things, a brief discography and pointers to more complete ones. Simon. 1 What Is The Sylvian Mailing List? The Sylvian mailing list is an electronic mailing list created in July 1993 for people with an interest in Japan, David Sylvian and other solo projects. It is subscribed to by people all over the world and discusses any topic related to Japan and its solo members. If you would like to join us, send some mail to with any subject, and a message of subscribe sylvian <name Where <name is your real name, NOT your mail address (that is ex- tracted from the header). If you have any problems or queries, send some mail to John West 2 What Is/Was Bamboo? Bamboo was a fanzine produced by Debi Zornes and Howie Sawyer. It was started in 1984 and contained a wealth of interviews with Japan members and other people associated with them. It was closed in Winter 1992 after 36 issues when Debi set up Medium (see below). A small number of back-issues are available from Debi at the Medium address given below. 3 What Is Medium & How Do I Get It? [From a Medium flyer from the beginning of 1993] Medium is a new comprehensive information service, replacing both Bam- boo and the Jansen/Barbieri information service. Steve, Richard and Mick will be overseeing the content and direction of the service. They will also regularly be making their own contributions to newsletters as both writers and editors. Subscribers will receive 4 multi-page newsletters (printed on high qual- ity paper) per year and press releases where necessary, providing you with advance and up-to-date information on all their projects. The first newsletter will be released in March and I will be talking to Mick about his new album, Bestial Cluster, set for a Spring release. The newsletter will also contain a report on last year’s No Man tour and recent photos, and will be issued along with a complete discography (including session work) of Steve, Richard and Mick. In addition to the newsletters and press releases, subscribers will be given the opportunity to purchase rare and exclusive material/mail order CD’s, etc. The first CD to be released by Medium Productions will be collaboration between Steve, Richard, Mick and other artists and will only be available through this service. Further details of the CD, and how to secure a copy, will be in the first newsletter. The CD’s will be produced on the Medium Productions label – through which we will also be introducing a host of new artists to all subscribers. Finally, personal mail for Medium artists should be sent to the address given below. If you would like to subscribe to Medium please complete the form below and return it, along with your subscription fee, to : Medium, 74 St Lawrence Road, Upminster, Essex, RM14 2UW, England. Debi Zornes Annual_subscription_rates UK GBP 6.00 USA/Canada GBP 8.00 Europe GBP 6.50 Japan/Australia GBP 8.50 You may pay by cheque/PO, IMO or cash (sterling or your own currency calculated at the current exchange rate). Cheques/PO’s should only be made payable to Medium. (Please Complete in BLOCK CAPITALS) 4 Is There A Discography? A short discography is included at the end of this FAQ. In addition there are several discographies available for FTP from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au:/pub/sylvian. japan.a4.ps Japan’s releases. japan.txt A text version of the above. karn.a4.ps Mick Karn’s releases including Dalis Car. karn.txt A text version of the above. rest.a4.ps All other releases including Dolphin Brothers, Jansen / Barbieri and Rain Tree Crow. rest.txt A text version of the above. sylvian.a4.ps David Sylvian’s releases including joint work with Robert Fripp. sylvian.txt A text version of the above. 5 What Publications Are There By / About David Sylvian Et. Al.? The following official books have been published : Sons Of Pioneers Book of photographs taken by Fin Costello and Steve Jansen on the `Sons Of Pioneers tour’. The Japanese edition has addi- tional colour pictures. Perspectives A collection of David’s collages exhibited in London in 1984. The Japanese edition was very limited (500) and contained ?????. Trophies Collection of lyrics from Brilliant Trees, Gone To Earth and Se- crets Of The Beehive. Includes some unreleased songs. In addition the following books have been published : A Tourists Guide To Japan Book from the early Eighties covering the history of Japan up to the final tour. Eighty Days Book produced by Bamboo to cover the `In Praise Of Shamans’ tour. Testi, Con Traduzione A Fronte An Italian book containing a discography and lyrics. All of the above, with the exception of `Eighty Days’, are now out of print. 6 Where Are The Lyrics For …? There are a small number of lyrics in ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au:/pub/sylvian. If you have some which are not there please mail John West to arrange for them to be uploaded. Brief Discography Here is a brief overview of the albums released by Japan and solo members. For further details please see the full discographies. 1978 Japan Adolescent Sex Obscure Alternatives 1979 Quiet Life 1980 Gentlemen Take Polaroids 1981 Assemblage Tin Drum 1982 Mick Karn Titles 1983 Japan Oil On Canvas 1984 David Sylvian Brilliant Trees Dalis Car The Waking Hour Japan Exorcising Ghosts 1986 Jansen / Barbieri Worlds In A Small Room David Sylvian Gone To Earth 1987 Mick Karn Dreams Of Reason Produce Monsters Dolphin Brothers Catch The Fall David Sylvian Secrets Of The Beehive 1988 Plight & Premonition 1989 Flux & Mutability Weatherbox Japan Souvenir From Japan 1991 Rain Tree Crow Rain Tree Crow Jansen / Barbieri Stories Across Borders Japan The Other Side Of Japan David Sylvian Ember Glance 1993 The First Day Mick Karn Bestial Cluster J | B | K Beginning To Melt Tour News Sylvian & Fripp Here are the 1993 Sylvian/Fripp tour dates confirmed so far by their man- agement. The end Oct/start Nov USA dates are yet to be confirmed. JAPAN Thu 14 Oct Kanni Hoken Hall, Tokyo Sat 16 Oct Shibuya Kokaido, Tokyo Sun 17 Oct Shimin Kaikan, Sendai Mon 19 Oct Kanagawa Kenmin, Yokohama Thu 21 Oct Festival Hall, Osaka Fri 22 Oct Koseinenkin Hall, Nagoya Sat 23 Oct Kaikan Dai-2 Hall, Kyoto Mon 25 Oct Sun Plaza Hall, Tokyo Tue 26 Oct Sun Plaza Hall, Tokyo USA Thu 28 Oct Zellerbach, Berkeley Fri 29 Oct Pantages, Los Angeles Sun 31 Oct The Park West, Chicago Mon 1 Nov Massey Hall, Toronto Tue 2 Nov Beacon Theater, New York ITALY Sat 6 Nov Supercinema, Chieti Sun 7 Nov Tanda Partenope, Naples Mon 8 Nov Teatro Olimpico, Rome Wed 10 Nov Teatro Tenda, Florence Thu 11 Nov Teatro Tenda, Brescia Fri 12 Nov Teatro Colosseo, Torino Sun 14 Nov Il Tempo Music Hall, Reggio Emilia Mon 15 Nov Teatro Smeralda, Milan Tue 16 Nov Politesia Rossetti, Trieste Wed 17 Nov Teatro Astra, Bassario del Grappa HOLLAND Sat 20 Nov Stadsschouwbourg, Sittard Sun 21 Nov Carre Theatre, Amsterdam Mon 22 Nov Carre Theatre, Amsterdam Wed 24 Nov Musickcentrum, Eindhoven Thu 25 Nov Ossterpoort, Gronigen BELGIUM Fri 26 Nov Queen Elizabeth Hall, Antwerp FRANCE Sun 28 Nov La Cigale, Paris ENGLAND Tue 30 Nov Royal Centre, Nottingham Wed 1 Dec Apollo, Manchester Thu 2 Dec Royal Concert Hall, Glasgow Sat 4 Dec Royal Albert Hall, London Sun 5 Dec Royal Albert Hall, London Mick Karn Mick Karn will be touring this Autumn (Fall for you US lot). He will be accompanied by Steve Jansen, Richard Barbieri and David Torn. NOTE: It seems that several of the US dates have either been cancelled or moved to different venues. More details will be given when available. Thu 21 Oct Teatro Ciak, Milano Fri 22 Oct Teatro Impavidi, Sarzana Sat 23 Oct Auditorium Flog, Firenze Sun 24 Oct Teatro Astra, Bassana Delgrapa Mon 25 Oct Il Tempo, Reggio Emilia Wed 27 Oct (TBA), Roma Sat 30 Oct Panzerhallen, Munich Sun 31 Oct Sinkkasten, Frankfurt Mon 1 Nov Live Station, Dortmund Tue 2 Nov (TBA), Bonn Wed 3 Nov Haus der Jugend,
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I don’t know about any discography, but I try from my memory: DAVID SYLVIAN SOLO: "Brilliant Trees" ,lp "Words from the Shaman" , ep "Gone to Earth" , dobble-lp "Secrets of the Beehive" ,lp "Popsong" , ep "Whaterbox" , a box with CD’s "Taking the Well" and other singles I suppose DAVID SYLVIAN & HOLGER CZUKAY : two lp’s RAIN THREE CROW : one lp and one (?) ep. DAVID SYLVIAN & ROBERT FRIPP : "The First Day" ,CD SYLVIAN also appers on the MICK CARN’s lp "Dreams about Reason Produce Monsters", and on the last R. SAKAMOTO CD, and on the old JAPAN’s lp’s. This is not all, but a lot of it. ToreM.
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I do love the man, I must say, though it’s not so much his lyrics that stick in my mind as much as his absolutely WONDERFUL voice. Pure sensuousness on an aural level.
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: so hey…does anyone like David Sylvian? has anyone even heard of him? yes? if : so…a dialogue on his music would be interesting–by the way, he gets my vote : for best lyricist….quite a poet, that one. And if you get a chance to see him : on this tour with Robert Fripp, do not miss it. I’ve been to many a show, and : this was by far the most extraordinary. Really great. I’ll stop ranting now! : - V I have been a fan of Sylvian from when he was in Japan. Saw him in concert with Robert Fripp 2 weeks ago in 4 Toronto, excellent even though the review I read in the paper panned it. Also saw him in 1989. This show was all his material, and very mellow, like he does for a couple of songs on his present tour. As far as albums go, I would recommend everything he has, but I would say that I am biased towards him."Secrets of the Beehive" and "Gone to Earth" are probably his best two. Keep an eye out for a promo disc with Sylvian and Fripp. It comes from the U.S. and goes through Sylvian’s discography back to the last Japan album. A couple of years ago he got back together with members of Japan, and put out a self-titled album as the group "Rain-Tree Crow" (also a great album). His voice is definitely what makes him so great. Anyone wanting to talk about him, or questions, post it or E-mail to
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so hey…does anyone like David Sylvian? has anyone even heard of him? yes? if so…a dialogue on his music would be interesting–by the way, he gets my vote for best lyricist….quite a poet, that one. And if you get a chance to see him on this tour with Robert Fripp, do not miss it. I’ve been to many a show, and this was by far the most extraordinary. Really great. I’ll stop ranting now!
Please do keep ranting. I also think David Sylvian is a musical genius. I have been into Japan and David Sylvian for about 10 years, and it is rare that I find other people who have even heard of them. I also got turned onto Riuichi Sakamoto through projects with D.S. I have only been priveleged to see David Sylvian in concert once at the Wiltern theatre in Hollywood and I have to say that it was incredible. I did not know that he was going to be touring. If anyone has info on tour dates please e-mail me. di
Response:
so hey…does anyone like David Sylvian? has anyone even heard of him? yes? if so…a dialogue on his music would be interesting–by the way, he gets my vote for best lyricist….quite a poet, that one. And if you get a chance to see him on this tour with Robert Fripp, do not miss it. I’ve been to many a show, and this was by far the most extraordinary. Really great. I’ll stop ranting now! - V
Response:
so hey…does anyone like David Sylvian? has anyone even heard of him? yes? if so…a dialogue on his music would be interesting–by the way, he gets my vote for best lyricist….quite a poet, that one. And if you get a chance to see him on this tour with Robert Fripp, do not miss it. I’ve been to many a show, and this was by far the most extraordinary. Really great. I’ll stop ranting now! – V
Yeah, I’ve got Secrets of the Beehive but never seemed to like the other albums musically as much. Lyrically he is quite hip. Any others?
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