Question:

Deano sez: So who has crossed the line into treason?

John Walker Lindh has for one. Others are skating on thin ice. We are talking about U.S. citizens right? There are some here on green cards that fit the bill. But then they are not citizens. Jan Eric Orme "Work like you don’t need the money, love like you have never been hurt and dance like nobody is watching!"

Response:

It’s time the Jane Fonda’s & Sean Penn’s of this country wise up and support the troops that defend them. We ALL support our troops. One of the best ways of supporting our troops is to stop our so-called leaders from putting them into uncalled for, unnecessary, unwise, and counterproductive wars.

That situation isn’t happening right now, so I will file your comment away for future reference.

Response:

This Airman’s response to the Washington Times should be printed in all newspapers across America. Especially now when the President is calling up more Reserves and National Guardsmen. Get this response out to everyone you know. It’s time the Jane Fonda’s & Sean Penn’s of this country wise up and support the troops that defend them. Military pay article On 12 Nov, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming service members’ way this year — citing that the stated 13% wage was more than they deserve.

Urban legend.  Check snopes before spreading this kind of stuff. — Carl A. http://pages.prodigy.net/chainnj/Journal.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you mean, did I protest in the streets? No I did not. That, to me is a waste of good shoe leather. But I did speak out against the bombing of Serbia. I think that war was wrong. I think this one is right. I also support people’s right to dessent as long as we can also point out where they are wrong AND they don’t go over the line and commit treason by defending the enemy. Jane Fonda should have had the cojones to denounce her US citizenship and stayed in Hanoi. She blatently put our POWs in serious danger. Dessent is fine. But traveling to an enemy shore and speaking against your own nation is something I consider to be treason. Rather Treasonous Dan can have the benifit of doubt because he is the media. Sean Penn is just a wimp ass commoner like the rest of us, giving aid to the enemy. Jan Eric Orme

So who has crossed the line into treason? Deano

Response:

That’s not what she said on her interview on FAUX news. She did protest the NATO bombing of Serbia as did many others including many repubs, did you? Were you a traitor for lending comfort to the enemy? No, of course not. That’s a ruse by the right wing to shut people up. I totally disagree with the current anti war views but completely support their right to dessent. Even if it were you. Deano

If you mean, did I protest in the streets? No I did not. That, to me is a waste of good shoe leather. But I did speak out against the bombing of Serbia. I think that war was wrong. I think this one is right. I also support people’s right to dessent as long as we can also point out where they are wrong AND they don’t go over the line and commit treason by defending the enemy. Jane Fonda should have had the cojones to denounce her US citizenship and stayed in Hanoi. She blatently put our POWs in serious danger. Dessent is fine. But traveling to an enemy shore and speaking against your own nation is something I consider to be treason. Rather Treasonous Dan can have the benifit of doubt because he is the media. Sean Penn is just a wimp ass commoner like the rest of us, giving aid to the enemy. Jan Eric Orme "Work like you don’t need the money, love like you have never been hurt and dance like nobody is watching!"

Response:

This Airman’s response to the Washington Times should be printed in all newspapers across America.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blpayraise.htm Tex Houston

Response:

Jenny said: Trendy Protesting (of Republicans) Explaining why she and other anti-war protesters didn’t organize demonstrations when President Clinton launched attacks on Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan and the Sudan. "It wasn’t very hip" [to protest Clinton's Wars]. Source: http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/2/23/151110

like nobody is watching!" That’s not what she said on her interview on FAUX news. She did protest the NATO bombing of Serbia as did many others including many repubs, did you? Were you a traitor for lending comfort to the enemy? No, of course not. That’s a ruse by the right wing to shut people up. I totally disagree with the current anti war views but completely support their right to dessent. Even if it were you. Deano

Response:

Jenny said: It’s time the Jane Fonda’s & Sean Penn’s of this country wise up and support the troops that defend them. We ALL support our troops. One of the best ways of supporting our troops is to stop our so-called leaders from putting them into uncalled for, unnecessary, unwise, and counterproductive wars.

Just wondering Jenny. Does this mean you feel that way all the time or do you agree with Janeane Garofalo and her comments about? Trendy Protesting (of Republicans) Explaining why she and other anti-war protesters didn’t organize demonstrations when President Clinton launched attacks on Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan and the Sudan. "It wasn’t very hip" [to protest Clinton's Wars]. Source: http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/2/23/151110 I’m not trying to set you up here Jenny, because I assume you did not support Clinton on his wars either. Clinton, BTW, holds the bloody record for wars. The point is, that these "Actors" are hypocrits in most cases. When it comes to this subject it’s all politics and what a Democtate Administration does is somehow OK. And Jenny, you are into nakedness, do you agree with Janeans on this silly nakedness? Naked Gay Burning the Flag Choke Her up With Pride From a 1998 interview in the now-folded Buzz magazine: "Our country is founded on a sham: our forefathers were slave-owning rich white guys who wanted it their way. So when I see the American flag, I go, ‘Oh my God, you’re insulting me.’ That you can have a gay parade on Christopher Street in New York, with naked men and women on a float cheering, ‘We’re here, we’re queer!’ — that’s what makes my heart swell. Not the flag, but a gay naked man or woman burning the flag. I get choked up with pride." Source: http://www.hollywoodinvestigator.com/2002/garofalo.htm For more Hollywood Nitwit Garofaloisms you can read this: http://www.hollywoodhalfwits.com/janeanegarofalo/index.htm And for Leftist Hollywood Nitwits in general, you can go to: http://www.hollywoodhalfwits.com/ Jan Eric Orme "Work like you don’t need the money, love like you have never been hurt and dance like nobody is watching!"

Response:

It’s time the Jane Fonda’s & Sean Penn’s of this country wise up and support the troops that defend them.

We ALL support our troops. One of the best ways of supporting our troops is to stop our so-called leaders from putting them into uncalled for, unnecessary, unwise, and counterproductive wars. Jenny Before emailing, remove Clothes

Response:

This Airman’s response to the Washington Times should be printed in all newspapers across America. Especially now when the President is calling up more Reserves and National Guardsmen. Get this response out to everyone you know. It’s time the Jane Fonda’s & Sean Penn’s of this country wise up and support the troops that defend them. Military pay article On 12 Nov, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming service members’ way this year — citing that the stated 13% wage was more than they deserve. A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below.  He ought to get a bonus for this! "Ms Williams: I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused.  Frankly, I’m wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account.  Checking my latest earnings statement  I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20.  When I run that through the calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40 after. I work in the Air Force Network Control Center where I am part of the team responsible for a 5,000-host computer network.  I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment.  A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job.  Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year.  No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum.  I’m sure you can draw the obvious conclusions. Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you have NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces.  Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military’s lowest pay brackets off of WIC, and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN, I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience."  As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones.  Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they’ll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone — obviously they’ve been squandering the "vast" piles of cash the government has been giving them.  Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you’re actually over there, sitting in a foxhole, shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren’t enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything.  This gives some flavor.  Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won’t nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for  it.  You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your op-ed piece.  But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it. You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish.  On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe. We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can’t offer the stability and pay of civilian companies.  And you, Ms Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve? Rubbish! A1C Michael Bragg, Hill AFB AFNCC IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND SHOW OUR SUPPORT OF THE AMERICAN FIGHTING  MEN AND WOMEN. THANK YOU. THIS LETTER SHOULD BE APPLAUDED BY ANYONE WHO’S EVER  SERVED OR HAD  A FAMILY MEMBER SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES!  THIS YOUNG MAN DESERVES A MEDAL!

Response:

Question:

Good grief people.  If you know anything at all about QB, you would realize that you cannot simply put an entry into the "Opening Balance Equity" account without an offsetting entry into another account. And yes, the "Opening Balance Equity" is a very integral part of QB. QB is one of many double-entry accounting packages available for small businesses.  I am a Certified QuickBooks ProAdvisor, and I know the software inside and out.  99% of the problems I see from clients who use QB is that they don’t know the first thing about accounting and how to post entries into the system. The only problem I have with QB is that it does not allow for the closing of periods the way other accounting packages (such as Peachtree) have. However, QB does allow for a "closing date", which works something like the closing of a period in other software. — Kenneth Reid, CPP MasterType Computer Services Professional Accounting and Payroll Services 6312 N. Milwaukee Avenue Chicago, IL  60646-3786 (773) 792-1910 (877) 754-1913 (Outside Chicago) (773) 792-1950 – FAX www.mcschicago.com www.mastertypecomputerservices.com

Jim, non-understanding of the double-entry system and its tremendous benefits is present in our own back yards. You must also have had discussion with IT people concerning rigorous double-entry traceability on dual accounting cycle systems for financial and cost accounting. I completely agree. I may get flamed for saying this – but oh-well. Even closer to home for some of us is QuickBooks.  It appears to be double

entry, but it isn’t.  One of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the equity accounts is a plug. Jim

Response:

Even closer to home for some of us is QuickBooks.  It appears to be double entry, but it isn’t.  One of the equity accounts is a plug.  

        Hallelujah and Amen!!!  Someone finally agrees with me!  {:-) FWK

Response:

I filtered out Strategic Center posts after they showed they had no idea what they were discussing. Now I only see posts from those who effectively agree, but waste time debating them. If we agree on this we may be able to get Usenet to stop their posts here. Any supporters for this?

        No.  I think he may be on to something, but is having a difficult time getting his point across.  Although sometimes lengthy & seemingly rambling, there’s been nothing objectionable.  Let’s hear what he has to say. FWK

Response:

How do you say that you  that you filtered our posts while you said a week ago that you will use a kill  filter to stop reading our posts? Isn’t that a contradiction? Or  do you  consider it otherwise?

Response:

In all fairness to the "tool", the software, whatever brand, GI = GO. The problem is not the software but the user. Any bookkeeping systems, hand journal – ledger or software only works if it is operated correctly. What I do not understand is why those people don’t get someone (accountant) to set their system up for them. Guess, their daddy never told them about an ounce of prevention …

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of my contractor tax clients had a bookkeeper that booked all the construction draws to revenues and all the loan repayments to expense, then booked the sale to revenue also and the loan pay-off to expense. In effect, for a $250K house there was ~$500K in revenues and ~$500K in expenses.  They thought they were "so cool" and their tax return would be "so easy" to prepare. I had a new would-be client show up just before April 15 last year with some QB printouts and the familiar refrain, "It is all there".  Among other things, the cash account was massively overdrawn and the payables had a huge debit balance. I told the lady that I would do her company’s tax return ONLY if she gave me a hand prepared set of numbers to work from for which she was prepared to take full responsibility. I’m becoming increasingly afraid to even look at some of these QB messes.  If I work from a backup I have the entire electronic record, there is never enough time and money to fix them, and there is effectively no limit to the

potential liability. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim

Response:

QB, yup.   First time I saw it I was initially amazed (as in shocked and disgusted) anyone would use it.  Fifteen minutes later I figured it out what the motivation (not good motivation) was.  It is kind of like heroin, makes you feel good, but ain’t no good for you.  OTOH, I think QB is useful as an illustration of why a parliamentary democracy is inferior to a republic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, non-understanding of the double-entry system and its tremendous benefits is present in our own back yards. You must also have had discussion with IT people concerning rigorous double-entry traceability on dual accounting cycle systems for financial and cost accounting. I completely agree. I may get flamed for saying this – but oh-well. Even closer to home for some of us is QuickBooks.  It appears to be double entry, but it isn’t.  One of the equity accounts is a plug. Jim

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Jim, non-understanding of the double-entry system and its tremendous benefits is present in our own back yards. You must also have had discussion with IT people concerning rigorous double-entry traceability on dual accounting cycle systems for financial and cost accounting. I completely agree. I may get flamed for saying this – but oh-well. Even closer to home for some of us is QuickBooks. It appears to be double entry, but it isn’t.  One of the equity accounts is a plug.  

Yup,  it’s the "You F’d up and here it is"…..AKA "Opening Balance Equity". What amazes me is the number of people with QB that think their financials are useful, correct, etc, when they have loans in and out of the Income statement, all the car payments go to "auto expense", and revenues include all moneys deposited to the bank account. One of my contractor tax clients had a bookkeeper that booked all the construction draws to revenues and all the loan repayments to expense, then booked the sale to revenue also and the loan pay-off to expense.  In effect, for a $250K house there was ~$500K in revenues and ~$500K in expenses.  They thought they were "so cool" and their tax return would be "so easy" to prepare. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia http://www.pat-cpa.com

Response:

One of my contractor tax clients had a bookkeeper that booked all the construction draws to revenues and all the loan repayments to expense, then booked the sale to revenue also and the loan pay-off to expense.  In effect, for a $250K house there was ~$500K in revenues and ~$500K in expenses.  They thought they were "so cool" and their tax return would be "so easy" to prepare.

I had a new would-be client show up just before April 15 last year with some QB printouts and the familiar refrain, "It is all there".  Among other things, the cash account was massively overdrawn and the payables had a huge debit balance. I told the lady that I would do her company’s tax return ONLY if she gave me a hand prepared set of numbers to work from for which she was prepared to take full responsibility. I’m becoming increasingly afraid to even look at some of these QB messes.  If I work from a backup I have the entire electronic record, there is never enough time and money to fix them, and there is effectively no limit to the potential liability. Jim

Response:

One of my contractor tax clients had a bookkeeper that booked all the construction draws to revenues and all the loan repayments to expense, then booked the sale to revenue also and the loan pay-off to expense.  In effect, for a $250K house there was ~$500K in revenues and ~$500K in expenses.  They thought they were "so cool" and their tax return would be "so easy" to prepare.

Now’s the time to show him a hammer and tell him you’re going to build a house!  ;) — Brandon Sommerville CaseView Solutions Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Convincing must  be achieved through discussions to get to the truth but we do not see any scientific style in your post. Well that would make my posts the equal of yours. Aside: "We"? Who does this jerk think he’s fooling with his "we" crapola? I’m quite sure the "we" is real.   I’m also sure that the Strategetic center folks are clueless with regards to "western culture", including western accounting.  I’ve been hoping that we could get some real discussion going and all learn a little more about each other.  So far that has not happened.

I filtered out Strategic Center posts after they showed they had no idea what they were discussing. Now I only see posts from those who effectively agree, but waste time debating them. If we agree on this we may be able to get Usenet to stop their posts here. Any supporters for this? How anyone from anywhere can look at the Enron / Andersen mess and then say that "The weakness of accounting is due to the double entry not  accountants" is totally beyond me.  Nevertheless, as a dedicated student of human behavior and beliefs, I’m not willing to conclude that they don’t believe it. Interesting. Jim Hudspeth

   Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 Lowest QB Prices   http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm Free 462p QB Book  http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes  http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 200 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, non-understanding of the double-entry system and its tremendous benefits is present in our own back yards. You must also have had discussion with IT people concerning rigorous double-entry traceability on dual accounting cycle systems for financial and cost accounting. I completely agree. I may get flamed for saying this – but oh-well. Even closer to home for some of us is QuickBooks.  It appears to be double entry, but it isn’t.  One of the equity accounts is a plug.   Jim

I agree Quickbooks should Require Accounts for every entry, so they balance. However,, this is one of many Preferences you can and should set.    Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 Lowest QB Prices   http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm Free 462p QB Book  http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes  http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 200 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm

Response:

I filtered out Strategic Center posts after they showed they had no idea what they were discussing. Now I only see posts from those who effectively agree, but waste time debating them. If we agree on this we may be able to get Usenet to stop their posts here. Any supporters for this?

Not here. Further, I don’t understand your angst. While the Strategetic center folks clearly do not understand double entry accounting, they are putting voice to a little understood problem of massive importance – the search for an easy fix. We (USA) are addicted to easy fixes.  We pop pills instead of working on diet and exercise.  We buy toys for our kids instead of spending time with them.  We build cities in wetlands and then try to fix the problems with disaster relief.  The list is almost endless. Now some Egyptians show up here trying to sell us another easy fix and we get all "wrapped around the axle".  Why is this Egyptian "snake oil" any worse that the countless other varieties that we deal with every day? Ultimately, the Strategetic center folks will either get off their present obsession and join us in some meaningful discussion on some other topic (my hope) or go away under their own power.  Either way is better than for us to attempt to push them away. Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of my contractor tax clients had a bookkeeper that booked all the construction draws to revenues and all the loan repayments to expense, then booked the sale to revenue also and the loan pay-off to expense.  In effect, for a $250K house there was ~$500K in revenues and ~$500K in expenses.  They thought they were "so cool" and their tax return would be "so easy" to prepare. I had a new would-be client show up just before April 15 last year with some QB printouts and the familiar refrain, "It is all there".  Among other things, the cash account was massively overdrawn and the payables had a huge debit balance. I told the lady that I would do her company’s tax return ONLY if she gave me a hand prepared set of numbers to work from for which she was prepared to take full responsibility. I’m becoming increasingly afraid to even look at some of these QB messes.  If I work from a backup I have the entire electronic record, there is never enough time and money to fix them, and there is effectively no limit to the potential liability. Jim

Yes, if you do not work with them often, but it seems personal contact is the easiest thing we can sell.    Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 Lowest QB Prices   http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm Free 462p QB Book  http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes  http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 200 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm

Response:

Yup,  it’s the "You F’d up and here it is"…..AKA "Opening Balance Equity". What amazes me is the number of people with QB that think their financials are useful, correct, etc, when they have loans in and out of the Income statement, all the car payments go to "auto expense", and revenues include all moneys deposited to the bank account. One of my contractor tax clients had a bookkeeper that booked all the construction draws to revenues and all the loan repayments to expense, then booked the sale to revenue also and the loan pay-off to expense.  In effect, for a $250K house there was ~$500K in revenues and ~$500K in expenses.  They thought they were "so cool" and their tax return would be "so easy" to prepare.

I thought my clients were the only ones who did this. They also have booked draws as expense reimbursements. Fortunately, QB makes it easy to change.    Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 Lowest QB Prices   http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm Free 462p QB Book  http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes  http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 200 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm

Response:

I may get flamed for saying this – but oh-well. Even closer to home for some of us is QuickBooks.  It appears to be double entry, but it isn’t.  One of the equity accounts is a plug.   I agree Quickbooks should Require Accounts for every entry, so they balance. However,, this is one of many Preferences you can and should set.

I’m certainly not holding myself out as a QB expert, however it is my understanding that "Opening Balance Equity" is an integral part of the program – not a preference. To the best of my knowledge, it is not possible to setup QB in such a way that it becomes a true double entry system.   Jim Hudspeth, CPA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I filtered out Strategic Center posts after they showed they had no idea what they were discussing. Now I only see posts from those who effectively agree, but waste time debating them. If we agree on this we may be able to get Usenet to stop their posts here. Any supporters for this?  Not here.  Further, I don’t understand your angst.  While the Strategetic center folks clearly do not understand  double entry accounting, they are putting voice to a little  understood problem of massive importance – the search for an  easy fix.  We (USA) are addicted to easy fixes.  We pop pills instead of  working on diet and exercise.  We buy toys for our kids  instead of spending time with them.  We build cities in  wetlands and then try to fix the problems with disaster  relief.  The list is almost endless.  Now some Egyptians show up here trying to sell us another  easy fix and we get all "wrapped around the axle".  Why is  this Egyptian "snake oil" any worse that the countless other  varieties that we deal with every day?  Ultimately, the Strategetic center folks will either get off  their present obsession and join us in some meaningful  discussion on some other topic (my hope) or go  away under their own power.  Either way is better than for us  to attempt to push them away.

There in another unit the exponential increase of which during the last 3 to 4 centuries is a basic economic factor many prefer to ignore: human population units Cultures and countries investing primarily in population growth (geographically mostly in the south) sometimes try to find reasons why the resources (expressed in units) per human population unit result in a lower ratio than in areas (Europe currently has the lowest population growth of all continents) investing relatively more in material goods. By migration areas with a high population production surplus currently try to export to those with meagre growth. Rather than making a moral or self-centered judgement on cultural superiority (criteria ?), we might rather use double-entry accounting tools including both monetary and non-monetary units to show the trade-offs involved in resource allocation. And by remembering: the sum of all wishes expressed in units of consumables vastly exceeds the sum of all resources likewise expressed in units. Relative scarcity is part of the definition of the human condition. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. http://www.consult-meyers.com recommends email encryption using GnuPG.

Response:

There in another unit the exponential increase of which during the last 3 to 4 centuries is a basic economic factor many prefer to ignore: human population units

<snip Rather than making a moral or self-centered judgement on cultural superiority (criteria ?), we might rather use double-entry accounting tools including both monetary and non-monetary units to show the trade-offs involved in resource allocation.

Certainly an interesting point of view.  I need to think about this before I comment. Jim

Response:

Some writers of the accounting theory think that there are basic ideas that accompanied the accounting conception during its development , these ideas and basic rules are summarized as follows: I-The organization’s manager was obligated to present reports to the investors which include the organization’s activity .These reports were represented in a budget in the form of periodical publications that led to record the accounting data in books to present them to the investors. The idea of recording began in the ancient history , during the Islamic age and in the ancient civilizations like Papel, Ashore and Pharos . It is currently named the process of accessing accounting data . 2-The need to audit data to verify their correctness arise. Some people related it to the human element weakness . It is known currently as the internal auditing and the external auditing verification of the correctness of the accounting data . In fact the need to audit data is due to the weakness of the double entry system in its mechanical performance and continuous verification to its assets and their resources  while the human element is not the reason as it created  the computer system which covers that weakness .The debit  and credit system is inable to cover the accounting operation with all its sides . Even using auditing in the double entry system does not cover all these goals . 3-To provide the right basis for the management to make the necessary decisions for the organization’s future there has to be analyses with the accounting data to make the appropriate decisions .In the double entry system,the main source of analyzing data was the credit and debit concept which analyzes these data and form information in reports to make decision ,but it is inable to analyze the accounting operation itself the right analysis,it is also inable to explain the unit and show it in reports so it depended on explanation which  is not related to money. In conclusion ,there are no rules that imposed themselves during the development of accountancy in modern ages,which is estimated by seven hundred years,but modern scientific means imposed themselves on the development of accountancy and showed its defects. In fact programmers and practical accountants tried to develop the accountancy science even if they have to ignore some traditional accounting rules.

Response:

<<SNIP The weakness of accounting is due to the intrusion of people, such as yourself, that don’t know the first thing about accounting. easy2000

Response:

Convincing must  be achieved through discussions to get to the truth but we do not see any scientific style in your post.

Response:

Convincing must  be achieved through discussions to get to the truth but we do not see any scientific style in your post.

Well that would make my posts the equal of yours. Aside: "We"? Who does this jerk think he’s fooling with his "we" crapola? easy2000

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Convincing must  be achieved through discussions to get to the truth but we do not see any scientific style in your post. Well that would make my posts the equal of yours. Aside: "We"? Who does this jerk think he’s fooling with his "we" crapola?

I’m quite sure the "we" is real.   I’m also sure that the Strategetic center folks are clueless with regards to "western culture", including western accounting.  I’ve been hoping that we could get some real discussion going and all learn a little more about each other.  So far that has not happened. How anyone from anywhere can look at the Enron / Andersen mess and then say that "The weakness of accounting is due to the double entry not  accountants" is totally beyond me.  Nevertheless, as a dedicated student of human behavior and beliefs, I’m not willing to conclude that they don’t believe it. Interesting. Jim Hudspeth

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Jim, non-understanding of the double-entry system and its tremendous benefits is present in our own back yards. You must also have had discussion with IT people concerning rigorous double-entry traceability on dual accounting cycle systems for financial and cost accounting. A typical example: The book-keeper, if appropriate, enters an expense voucher into both systems, financial and cost, but only enters a debit in the cost account (so designed by the IT people) without a corresponding credit. You can imagine the consternation of the dumbfounded designers and programmers (non accountants) when they were (by definition) unable to demonstrate how to close the cost accounting cycle and reconcile it with the financial accounting results. My question was simple and stupid: where is the credit entry in the cost accounting system? In the financial accounts, one debits expense and credits accounts payable. Obviously there are occasions when cost does not equal expense, making the requirement of strict double-entries in the cost accounting cycle even more obvious. But the IT people wanted to move back 700 years to single entry accounting. Let’s remember that from Sumerian times 10,000 years ago with single-entry book-keeping and detailed inventories, it took humanity over 9,000 years until Luca Paccioli discovered the double-entry system. Apparently it may still take some time until many even well educated humans really grasp the elegance, genius and usefulness of double-entry accounting. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Marxist assassination bomb Nazi $400 million in gold bullion Treasury

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Jim, non-understanding of the double-entry system and its tremendous benefits is present in our own back yards. You must also have had discussion with IT people concerning rigorous double-entry traceability on dual accounting cycle systems for financial and cost accounting.

I completely agree. I may get flamed for saying this – but oh-well. Even closer to home for some of us is QuickBooks.  It appears to be double entry, but it isn’t.  One of the equity accounts is a plug.   Jim

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Fr. Luca Pacioli, paper on accounting was written in 1494, almost 200 years before Newton recognized that the universe works the same way. Newton 1642 – 1727,  third law is: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." And that applies to cost accounting . . . of all flavours. Or what’s a varation for? =) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, non-understanding of the double-entry system and its tremendous benefits is present in our own back yards. You must also have had discussion with IT people concerning rigorous double-entry traceability on dual accounting cycle systems for financial and cost accounting. A typical example: The book-keeper, if appropriate, enters an expense voucher into both systems, financial and cost, but only enters a debit in the cost account (so designed by the IT people) without a corresponding credit. You can imagine the consternation of the dumbfounded designers and programmers (non accountants) when they were (by definition) unable to demonstrate how to close the cost accounting cycle and reconcile it with the financial accounting results. My question was simple and stupid: where is the credit entry in the cost accounting system? In the financial accounts, one debits expense and credits accounts payable. Obviously there are occasions when cost does not equal expense, making the requirement of strict double-entries in the cost accounting cycle even more obvious. But the IT people wanted to move back 700 years to single entry accounting. Let’s remember that from Sumerian times 10,000 years ago with single-entry book-keeping and detailed inventories, it took humanity over 9,000 years until Luca Paccioli discovered the double-entry system. Apparently it may still take some time until many even well educated humans really grasp the elegance, genius and usefulness of double-entry accounting. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Marxist assassination bomb Nazi $400 million in gold bullion

Treasury

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Question:

comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

Response:

comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

We used to have a good ongoing "karma" discussion here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind. My conclusion was: No. There enough tragedy, injustice and unfairness in the world to provide fairly conclusive evidence that is sufficient to completely discount that theory. It is something, though, we often believe only because we *need* think things make sense. Best – Fido

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I agree though I wish it were otherwise  :o( – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true? We used to have a good ongoing "karma" discussion here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind. My conclusion was: No. There enough tragedy, injustice and unfairness in the world to provide fairly conclusive evidence that is sufficient to completely discount that theory. It is something, though, we often believe only because we *need* think things make sense. Best – Fido

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I agree though I wish it were otherwise  :o(

Well, more often than not, it’s what you make of it. There is a bit of an art to identifing what you can control, and what you can’t control. If you can figure that out, working on what you *can* control (which may be different than what you *want* to control) can turn into a full-time and rewarding job. And I can promise you that’s true. Best – Fido

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I have seen it on occasion……not as often as I think I would need to see it to really trust in it. Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree though I wish it were otherwise  :o( comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true? We used to have a good ongoing "karma" discussion here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind. My conclusion was: No. There enough tragedy, injustice and unfairness in the world to provide fairly conclusive evidence that is sufficient to completely discount that theory. It is something, though, we often believe only because we *need* think things make sense. Best – Fido

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comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

I do believe it.  I also believe that it may greatly change form by the time it comes back around, and we may hardly recognize it.   At least that’s been my experience and my observation of the experiences of others i have known.

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comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true? I do believe it.  I also believe that it may greatly change form by the time it comes back around, and we may hardly recognize it. At least that’s been my experience and my observation of the experiences of others i have known.

Do you think that the accounts that don’t get settled on earth might get settled in the Afterlife? That every bit of joy, or every bit of pain that you provided for, or caused another will be repaid in kind as part of the Great Reckoning? I always thought that if that were true – that if one was had to endure in the Next Place exactly the amount of frustration, injustice and pain they caused others – then Bill Gates will be spend eternity rebooting his Heavenly Computer. Best – Fido

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true? We used to have a good ongoing "karma" discussion here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind. My conclusion was: No. There enough tragedy, injustice and unfairness in the world to provide fairly conclusive evidence that is sufficient to completely discount that theory. It is something, though, we often believe only because we *need* think things make sense.

I think it kind of depends on what you mean by "karma." If you mean it in the grand cosmic sense of "will a piano, or some other heavy object, fall out of the sky and crush my ex in retribution for his or her wrongs?" then I would say that, no, there’s no real "karma" out there. But in the sense of "his/her approach to people will come back to bite him or her in the butt one of these days," I think that often (more than statistical coincidence) what comes around goes around (coming back to bite you in the butt, btw, i think is more in keeping with that phrase than "karma.") I do believe that people who routinely go around treating people badly and profiting from it will lose out in the long run, although not in the grand and inglorious way that we might wish. It’s like crime–a lot of people get away with petty crimes, and a fair amount of major crimes go unsolved as well. So, if you commit a single crime, you probably do stand a good chance of "getting away with it." But that’s not how *criminals* operate. They commit crime after crime, and I’d guess that most of them, in the long run, are worse off than if they’d led a clean, honest life. For example, my ex’s cheat mate died in a car crash before I even knew of the affair. This is probably "karma" in the corrupted American sense, the sense that Fido denies truly exists. And few people get that sort of satisfaction. But, my ex’s deeper character flaws are that he is a liar, untrustworthy, highly critical of others, and a user of people. As a direct result, he has few lasting friendships, can’t hold a job for more than a few months, and continues to be an angry, bitter, unhappy person, as far as I can tell. There is so much fucked up in his life, and nearly all of it is the result of his own self-seeking actions. I wouldn’t trade places with him for anything. That, to me, illustrates the concept of "what comes around, goes around."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We used to have a good ongoing "karma" discussion here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind. My conclusion was: No. There enough tragedy, injustice and unfairness in the world to provide fairly conclusive evidence that is sufficient to completely discount that theory. It is something, though, we often believe only because we *need* think things make sense. I think it kind of depends on what you mean by "karma." If you mean it in the grand cosmic sense

Oh, shit. Let me rephrase that. "We used to have good <snip discussions about that here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind." (Occam’s razor. For a clean, close shave every time.) Best – Fido

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Yes, I do! D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

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Do you think that the accounts that don’t get settled on earth might get settled in the Afterlife?

Actually, yeah…  I have to believe it…  Keeps me from killing people.

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Yes, I do!

Come around *here*, bay-bee! Love – Fido – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – D. comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

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I don’t know but I really really hope so! Lori Mc

comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

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A year or so ago I was in the same room as my son who was on the phone to his mother. She was trying to get him to come to her place for an overnight,( we had agreed that instead of a rigid structure, our son could decide when he would be with either one of us). He was declining her invitation and I could tell that she was raising a fuss to him about this.  In the marriage she had a nasty habit of always putting her own needs above the rest of the family) After a moment he calmly said to her " what goes around comes around mom" and terminated the call. So in some cases you could say it is literally so! Robert M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

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A year or so ago I was in the same room as my son who was on the phone to his mother. She was trying to get him to come to her place for an overnight,( we had agreed that instead of a rigid structure, our son could decide when he would be with either one of us). He was declining her invitation and I could tell that she was raising a fuss to him about this. In the marriage she had a nasty habit of always putting her own needs above the rest of the family) After a moment he calmly said to her " what goes around comes around mom" and terminated the call. So in some cases you could say it is literally so! Robert M.

Why am I hearing that old harry Chapin song in my head, "The Cat’s in the Cradle" right about now. Bruce B. "In America, there is either room for everyone…or it’s not America."

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"Bruce"  wrote : Why am I hearing that old harry Chapin song in my head, "The Cat’s in the Cradle" right about now. Bruce B.

I think of that song in my head every time my ex does or says something that just drives our kids further away from him.  It appears that maybe the ex has noticed and seems to be trying to do things differently (at least this weekend worked out that way…)  Hopefully, this new turn of events is lasting.. Cal~

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I always wondered about the balance/justness of such things.  I mean, they say that good people are "given"

Careful with the concept of "given". A shortstop might be "given" a bad hop to deal with. There is not necessarily a cognazant party doing the "giving" in many cases, I think. bad things to help them grow, become stronger, develop more insight/compassion/wisdom etc.

I think it is just something that lets you squeeze any available benefit out of even the worst situations, and is a condition of mind thing. A depressed person, for example, would be unable to see good in about anything. With a frame of mind that sees more good, you can help yourself better. And, most of us need all the help we can get. Best – Fido

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I think of that song in my head

hehehe… before someone rags on me for that one, thought I’d point out that I noticed the redundancy here, but too late to hit the stop button.  Ah well….

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My Buddhism is a bit rusty, I confess.  But the thing that I always thought really sucked about that theory, is that if I lead a truly good and insightful life as a woman, I am *rewarded* by coming back next time as a man.  Not to start a bashing thing here, but don’t you guys (by and large) think we women have it made?  So wouldn’t you wonder about the idea of that being a "reward"?

Well, CRAP!!  You mean if i’m really really good i’ll have to give up multiple orgasms????   Watch out, then, i’ve got some bein’ BAD to do!!!!!

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comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

Yes, I do believe in Karma.  20 years ago I left my wife for the one who left me 3 years ago.  When this one was leaving, the things she said were almost verbatim what I had said 20 years ago. Robre

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    Well, Janie. As another of us that has had more than their share of "Bad Karma" comin’ down on them in their lives, do you believe there is a balance point where when it all hits the fan? Will we will be able to stand above it all, and watch the rest of the world ask why? Are we the instruments of karmic balance or are we merely puppets?     If that holds true we are due a whole lot of good things comin’ our way. If it’s not, what’s it all for? Why are we here? Why do we keep going?     John ( who asks himself these questions every hour of every day )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We used to have a good ongoing "karma" discussion here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind. My conclusion was: No. There enough tragedy, injustice and unfairness in the world to provide fairly conclusive evidence that is sufficient to completely discount that theory. I always wondered about the balance/justness of such things.  I mean, they say that good people are "given" bad things to help them grow, become stronger, develop more insight/compassion/wisdom etc.  So when bad people are given bad things, does that mean they’re a gift to them also, or a "reap what you sow" cosmic justice system? I personally think there is, as Fido says, a whole bunch of bad shit out there, just dropping randomly on people’s heads.  But I think if you are doing bad stuff, you’re just more likely to bring into your life people who will do bad stuff to you.  So that would mean that folks who are predators get MORE than their random share of bad shit in their lives.  Some might say that’s not apparent – but when I look at all the jails in the country, and when I think of what this child sexual predator we’re sentencing in March is going to face when he goes to jail, I think it *is* apparent. Janie — The reason why rivers and seas receive the homage of a hundred mountain streams is that they keep below them.  – Lao Tse

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If it’s not, what’s it all for? Why are we here? Why do we keep going?     John ( who asks himself these questions every hour of every day )

Then how do you get any work done? Best – Fido

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comes round. Do you, kind readers, believe that this is true?

I’d like to believe it is true, but I don’t really think it applies to the here and now because I see people who do very bad things living a nice life and people who do very good things living a very hard life. If there is an afterlife, then it’s very possible that what goes around here will come back at you then.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We used to have a good ongoing "karma" discussion here some time ago, whether there was some kind of cosmic accounting that caused all good or bad we rendered to come back in kind. My conclusion was: No. There enough tragedy, injustice and unfairness in the world to provide fairly conclusive evidence that is sufficient to completely discount that theory. It is something, though, we often believe only because we *need* think things make sense. satisfaction. But, my ex’s deeper character flaws are that he is a liar, untrustworthy, highly critical of others, and a user of people. As a direct result, he has few lasting friendships, can’t hold a job for more than a few months, and continues to be an angry, bitter, unhappy person, as far as I can tell. There is so much fucked up in his life, and nearly all of it is the result of his own self-seeking actions. I wouldn’t trade places with him for anything. That, to me, illustrates the concept of "what comes around, goes around."

I peeked in today, and can’t resist this thread so here I go. Kathryn’s understanding of karma is closest to what mine is, too. People who are bitter, angry, and vengeful will generally reap negative results.  This doesn’t mean that I believe (as many do) there is some angry God above, keeping score and causing the ex’s cheatmate to die in a car crash.  That doesn’t make sense to me….after all, why is Melonhead still alive and kicking?  Why would some be punished, karmically speaking, and others remain untouched? As Fido mentions, there is way too much suffering (especially of innocents) to believe that all suffering is the result of some cruel cosmic pay-back.  If I were to believe that, I’d be posting in the suicide thread because it would make me despondant to think that if people suffer, it must be their own fault.  The world is a beautiful, benevolent place, but there is some terrible stuff that goes on to people who really have no say in the matter. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

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Question:

Good starting point. If that were all that were required, it may make more sense to buy an OLAP tool from a vendor such as Cognos / Business Objects / Brio and the like. Each of those tools also has the ability to accept data from relational or non-relational transaction systems and transform the relational data sets into multi-dimensional, hierarchical data sets or ‘cubes’.  Cubes are the foundation for analytical reporting, where the need to go beyond the two dimensional nature of relational reporting is essential. Much of the interfacing can be accomplished through ODBC, although they all support other data formats, such as csv, text files etc.  The key criteria is that there be a ‘map’ to the data, and the data is tabular. Besides Hyperion, a good tool for this type of reporting may be TM1 from Applix, which has an elegant spreadsheet interface and specializes in financial budgeting and analysis much like you are describing. Pricing can be anywhere from $5,000 to $150,000 for what you are describing, and it is a good rule of thumb to include about 4-7 times the cost of the tool for consulting services. For better background on some of the choices, take a look at The OLAP Report site, as well as the various websites of the vendors. wjr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Greg, How much would it cost a small multinational say, having 10 branches in US and 10 subsidiaries in foreign countries, each having from 1 to 10 branch offices, to buy "the right stuff" from Hyperion to collect monthly financial and business reporting data from each national ssytem and conduct a smooth, state of the art financial reporting rollup at the headquarters? In 100 words or less what would it look like? Assume they have already got a whole variety of different accounting software and they would interface those to whatever Hyperion sells, these days, for the local "reporting units".  Once the data is into the local reporting unit module how is it transmitted? Is it a realtime 2-way interface of some kind? Is it XML? Is there a programmatic interface into the local module such as COM? Thanks TOdd * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML accounting, WebLedgers, ASPs, GL dialtone, whatever it takes Hyperion is the best accounting consolidation package on the market, it’s also the best OLAP (data warehousing) with its Essbase offering. I am also familiar with SAP LC, BW and Microsoft OLAP, and Hyperion beats them hands down on both counts. I work here and can give you much more info than this. Thanks, greg

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Hi Greg, How much would it cost a small multinational say, having 10 branches in US and 10 subsidiaries in foreign countries, each having from 1 to 10 branch offices, to buy "the right stuff" from Hyperion to collect monthly financial and business reporting data from each national ssytem and conduct a smooth, state of the art financial reporting rollup at the headquarters?   In 100 words or less what would it look like? Assume they have already got a whole variety of different accounting software and they would interface those to whatever Hyperion sells, these days, for the local "reporting units".  Once the data is into the local reporting unit module how is it transmitted? Is it a realtime 2-way interface of some kind? Is it XML? Is there a programmatic interface into the local module such as COM? Thanks TOdd * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML accounting, WebLedgers, ASPs, GL dialtone, whatever it takes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hyperion is the best accounting consolidation package on the market, it’s also the best OLAP (data warehousing) with its Essbase offering. I am also familiar with SAP LC, BW and Microsoft OLAP, and Hyperion beats them hands down on both counts. I work here and can give you much more info than this. Thanks, greg

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Any information would be welcome

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You could learn quite a bit on http://www.hyperion.com Salus Roger Standing

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What specifically do you need to know?

Any information would be welcome

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Hyperion is the best accounting consolidation package on the market, it’s also the best OLAP (data warehousing) with its Essbase offering. I am also familiar with SAP LC, BW and Microsoft OLAP, and Hyperion beats them hands down on both counts. I work here and can give you much more info than this. Thanks, greg * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Hyperion is certainly one of the largest and oldest offering in this area, and does have a large base of dedicated and satisfied users and references. However, to say ‘best’ is subjective, of course. There are many very effective tools that do certain things better than Hyperion does.  In addition, especially when talking about "OLAP" and data warehousing, there are a lot of indications that future directions for Hyperion are to emphasize the application of technologies and tools, rather than the tools around which the Hyperion applications are developed. In short, as with any technology or solution, it is always prudent to first define the task and be sure that the selection of a technology or tool is designed to address YOUR specific requirement. wjr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hyperion is the best accounting consolidation package on the market, it’s also the best OLAP (data warehousing) with its Essbase offering. I am also familiar with SAP LC, BW and Microsoft OLAP, and Hyperion beats them hands down on both counts. I work here and can give you much more info than this. Thanks, greg * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

In article < One warning – people in my lab (and others) have presented intruiging info that the responses to CMV don’t necessarily correspond to what is seen in HIV infection.  This is particularly true for CR45 subtype.  CMV seems an easy virus to study, giving a nice bit of data on non-HIV responses, and these comparisons are useful. Anything published?

The data I saw was at a departmental meeting, so AFAIK nothing is published regarding this CMV/HIV difference.  My guess would be that if what was seen in HIV more closely resembled CMV, everyone would be long- term non-progressors! Since the memory response doesn’t kick in effectively in HIV, I think the differences might be highly illuminating from the perspective of pathogenesis.

I agree – I’m keeping my eye on things, the more so since immunology is something I consider myself as lagging a little in. This may be a rather simplistic view, I realize…

Only to a point Here’s an abstract from the same guy, Mark Wills.  This looks to be all pre-HIV results. J Immunol 1999 Jun 15;162(12):7080-7 Human virus-specific CD8+ CTL clones revert from CD45ROhigh to CD45RAhigh in vivo: CD45RAhighCD8+ T cells comprise both naive and memory cells. Wills MR, Carmichael AJ, Weekes MP, Mynard K, Okecha G, Hicks R, Sissons JG Department of Medicine, University of Cambridge Clinical School, United It has been generally believed that human CD8+ memory cells are principally found within the CD45ROhigh population. There are high frequencies of CD8+ memory CTL specific for the human CMV tegument phosphoprotein pp65 in PBMC of long-term virus carriers; the large population of memory CTL specific for a given pp65 peptide contains individual CTL clones that have greatly expanded. In this study, we found high frequencies of pp65 peptide-specific memory CTL precursors in the CD45ROhighCD45RA- population, but also appreciable frequencies in the CD45RAhigh subpopulation. Because the majority of CD8+ T cells in PBMC are CD45RAhigh, more of the total pp65-specific memory CTL pool is within the CD45RAhigh than in the CD45ROhigh compartment. Using clonotypic oligonucleotide probes to quantify the size of individual pp65-specific CTL clones in vivo, we found the CD45RAhigh population contributed 6- to 10-fold more than the CD45ROhigh population to the total virus-specific clone size in CD8+ cells. During primary CMV infection, an individual virus-specific CTL clone was initially CD45ROhigh, but after resolution of infection this clone was detected in both the CD45ROhigh and the CD45RAhigh populations. We conclude that CD45RA+ human CD8+ T cells do not solely comprise naive cells, but contain a very significant proportion of memory cells, which can revert from the CD45ROhigh to CD45RAhigh phenotype in vivo. PMID: 10358151, UI: 99288063 Cheers Bennett — University of Cambridge Dept of Medicine Opinions expressed are mine – I’ll take the rap for my own mistakes. (swap cam for spam to reply via email) Big fish, little fish, put it in a box.  Stacking boxes, stacking boxes…

Response:

The full text of this JCI article is available free online. It takes a step-by-step look at the evolution of the CMV-specific CD4 response, and has rather clear implications for HIV.

One warning – people in my lab (and others) have presented intruiging info that the responses to CMV don’t necessarily correspond to what is seen in HIV infection.  This is particularly true for CR45 subtype.  CMV seems an easy virus to study, giving a nice bit of data on non-HIV responses, and these comparisons are useful. Interesting info all the same Richard – cheers. Bennett — University of Cambridge Dept of Medicine Opinions expressed are mine – I’ll take the rap for my own mistakes. (swap cam for spam to reply via email) Big fish, little fish, put it in a box.  Stacking boxes, stacking boxes…

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In article < One warning – people in my lab (and others) have presented intruiging info that the responses to CMV don’t necessarily correspond to what is seen in HIV infection.  This is particularly true for CR45 subtype.  CMV seems an easy virus to study, giving a nice bit of data on non-HIV responses, and these comparisons are useful.

Anything published? My guess would be that if what was seen in HIV more closely resembled CMV, everyone would be long- term non-progressors! Since the memory response doesn’t kick in effectively in HIV, I think the differences might be highly illuminating from the perspective of pathogenesis. This may be a rather simplistic view, I realize… Richard Jefferys Before you buy.

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The full text of this JCI article is available free online. It takes a step-by-step look at the evolution of the CMV-specific CD4 response, and has rather clear implications for HIV. Of note, they find in the primary response CD4  cells co-expressing CD45RA and RO, supporting the idea that this can mark a transition stage in the maturation of the memory response.  CD38 is also noted as a marker of the activated naive cell or "primary" population. CD38 has long been known to be over-expressed in progressive HIV infection, and others have noted that this may reflect a persistent primary or immature T-cell response. Anyway, it’s well worth a read. Richard Jefferys http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/105/4/541 J Clin Invest, February 2000, Volume 105, Number 4, 541-548 Development of virus-specific CD4+ T cells during primary cytomegalovirus infection Rob J. Rentenaar1,2, Laila E. Gamadia1,2, Nicolette van derHoek2, Frank N.J. van Diepen2, Ren

Question:

"Bill Bennett" <billbenn…@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > It’s been three weeks and >it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing).

Blocked nose?  Are you using a humidifier?  Or a heated humidifier? Tony —- Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed. Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at    http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or    thousands of volunteers for special events.

Response:

I’ve managed to get a heated humidifier in the last week. It’s getting better, but I’m still losing pressure at night. It turns out the problem isn’t mouth breathing but the involuntary parting of my lips when the pressure builds up — it lets air out with a pop. I’ve tried taping my mouth with a Lukosilk (spelling?) tape, but the air still seeps out. Tony Toews <tto…@telusplanet.net> wrote in message

news:37b5629e.5138178@news.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Bill Bennett" <billbenn…@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > > It’s been three weeks and > >it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). > Blocked nose?  Are you using a humidifier?  Or a heated humidifier? > Tony > —- > Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed. > Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant > Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at >    http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm > VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or >    thousands of volunteers for special events.

Response:

Gary G <Higg…@netwiz.net> wrote in message

news:37A12145.1BB1AD7B@netwiz.net… > I came in late to this post but have you tried a chin strap?…GG

No…for two reasons. First, cpap freaks me a bit. It’s been three weeks and it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). I get claustrophobic with the mask, but can cope, the chin strap is just too much. Second, I’m learning that anything that makes cpap more complicated makes it more likely that I don’t bother. After all, it doesn’t do anything for me anyway. It’s hard enough being motivated to keep trying as it is.

Response:

Bill…I also had a hell of a time…You MUST fight the urge to give up…It’s a real love hate relationship at first…Once you experience the benefits it still is the pits…I would ponder in my mind all the options…After 6 months it all changed…Now it even helps me to sleep…I can’t explain what changes but something does…I wish other medical issues as serious could be remedied by what now is really a simple yet elegant solution…Don’t give up…Your life is at stake…GG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bill Bennett wrote: > Gary G <Higg…@netwiz.net> wrote in message > news:37A12145.1BB1AD7B@netwiz.net… > > I came in late to this post but have you tried a chin strap?…GG > No…for two reasons. First, cpap freaks me a bit. It’s been three weeks and > it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). I > get claustrophobic with the mask, but can cope, the chin strap is just too > much. > Second, I’m learning that anything that makes cpap more complicated makes it > more likely that I don’t bother. After all, it doesn’t do anything for me > anyway. It’s hard enough being motivated to keep trying as it is.

Response:

On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:00:59 +1000, "Bill Bennett" <billbenn…@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > |   > |  Gary G <Higg…@netwiz.net> wrote in message > |  news:37A12145.1BB1AD7B@netwiz.net… > |  > I came in late to this post but have you tried a chin strap?…GG > |  > > |   > |  No…for two reasons. First, cpap freaks me a bit. It’s been three weeks and > |  it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). I > |  get claustrophobic with the mask, but can cope, the chin strap is just too > |  much. > |   > |  Second, I’m learning that anything that makes cpap more complicated makes it > |  more likely that I don’t bother. After all, it doesn’t do anything for me > |  anyway. It’s hard enough being motivated to keep trying as it is.

I don’t mind the CPAP at all, but the addition of the chin strap was just too much. I know what you mean! The chin strap really bothered me, especially the Veronique that was sort of like a seat belt for the head.   > |   > |   > |   > |   > |  

—————————————————- "Trudy is Beauth, Beauth, Trudy"

Question:

Greetings! My daughter is a recent Masters grad in Accounting from University of Montana with plenty of pre-grad experience.      Anyone outthere with possible job leads in the San Francisco Bay Area? Serious replies please… Thanks, jon

Response:

While I work in the Austin, Texas area, My firm, Novogradac & Company LLP, is headquartered in San Francisco.  They are an excellent firm.  Check out our web site at www.novoco.com.  We have job opportunities and information on our firm posted there. Good luck on the job search. George F. Littlejohn Novogradac & Company LLP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings! My daughter is a recent Masters grad in Accounting from University of Montana with plenty of pre-grad experience.      Anyone outthere with possible job leads in the San Francisco Bay Area? Serious replies please… Thanks, jon

Response:

Question:

-Sounds to me like she still cares about you and that’s why she keeps calling.

Well, "cares about" me is going a little far.  I get the feeling she doesn’t really care about anything but herself, and is momentarily entertained by putting on a show of care. Kinda like what I do, come to think of it. -I’m truly sorry about this, it must seem that no matter what you do there is no way to "fix" things.  IMO she has the problem, not you and as wombn suggested maybe you should switch numbers.

I giggled when wombn suggested this.  Not that it wouldn’t be a great idea in other circumstances, but telling my parents, "we have to change the number we’ve had for 28 years because Sarah calls me once a month" just wouldn’t go over too well. But thanks to you and the others who wrote me about this! cp — **  Baywatch Barbie and her pet dolphin do not move by themselves  ** *    yet MORE new pages!    http://www.mindspring.com/~capadgett    * ***                Terror Is The Order Of The Day                 ***

Response:

~snipped8< ~Normally, people don’t call from the other end of the country to mention these things to me, but she’s often felt the need.  As though my own lack of interest were something to be countered in kind.  Our last three conversations have ended (and begun) badly:  each time, I have tried as politely as possible to insist that she stay out of my life; each time, she has travelled from a superior smile that assumes I’m hiding some deep love for her, to rage that I’m hiding no such thing. ~ ~Oh, I’ve tried.  We’ve gone down the "can’t we be friends" route a thousand times, until her problems and willful self-disgust begin to bother me.=20 ~Until hearing her voice, so plaintive, so manipulatory, pushes out every bit of friendly care I might have for her.  And after a while, I decided no, we can’t be friends.  Not knowing how to tell her, I’ve tried a number of means.  Ignoring her doesn’t work.  Telling her directly doesn’t work.  Sugarcoating it doesn’t work.  So I’d gone back to ignoring her, until once more, today, she intrudes in my life. ~ ~You can’t escape history. =20 ((((((CP)))))) so true so true What I have trouble understanding (and maybe this is a part of me too) why she doesn’t let go of the something that’s not there for either of you.  It’s almost saying well if I try hard enough I will make this mine – although it was never hers to begin with.  Sorry I’m doing some reflecting of my own.  An obsession I guess it’s called.  Compulsive obsessive – Just keep saying no I guess is about all you can do. =20 ((((Cp))))) Email me at: (L Ann) — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

I have to talk to some people.  I’ve gotten too used to the online luxury of marking things read and deleting them when I don’t want to see them. ooooooooooooooooooooooo…  quite an interesting observation there…… where IS Stewart’s mirror anyway????/

Who needs a mirror?  I’m self-centered enough to always be looking my way. I’ve talked recently about the voices in my head–the puppets who tell me their opinions of me, rather than me having access to *my* opinions of me. And I think, those voices didn’t just pop out of nowhere.  Someone put them there.   yes.  they did.  But only YOU can get them out.  (I’m probably annoying you, yes?)

Nope!  The only annoying thing is the "how" of getting them out.  This is something my therapist and I struggle with a lot–I’ll come up with these little insights, and neither of us have any idea what to do with them. Which is not to say we don’t try, but everytime she suggests something, it’s a plan I’ve tried before that hasn’t worked. Which, in itself, offers a lesson, that my idea of failure is *so* black and white.  Strategy didn’t work a year ago, it won’t work now.  I got fired a few years ago, I’ll never work again.   it was done so easily before, it could easily be done now.  Another good argument for isolation, if the damage weren’t already done. hm….. I isolate myself for very similar reasons. It’s too easy to buy others’ opinions of me.  Good, bad or indifferent.

<nodnod  And I see myself someday in the future again *needing* to buy those opinions–needing to hear *something* about myself, and once more giving away my torn dignity and trust…. cp — **  Baywatch Barbie and her pet dolphin do not move by themselves  ** *    yet MORE new pages!    http://www.mindspring.com/~capadgett    * ***                Terror Is The Order Of The Day                 ***

Response:

I’m breathing vapors, the air thick with water.  It is the worst time to sleep, drowning in dreams after lying awake for an hour, accounting for my life.  Wondering why remembering the smallest normal thing is an effort, while painful events from years ago fight for which will spring to mind first.

-I’m really sorry you’re feeling this way cp. ((((cp)))) snip Rendered down to its essentials, the caller wanted me to know that she was involved with someone else, and that she wasn’t interested in me. Normally, people don’t call from the other end of the country to mention these things to me, but she’s often felt the need.

snip -Sounds to me like she still cares about you and that’s why she keeps calling. Oh, I’ve tried.  We’ve gone down the "can’t we be friends" route a thousand times, until her problems and willful self-disgust begin to bother me. Until hearing her voice, so plaintive, so manipulatory, pushes out every bit of friendly care I might have for her.  And after a while, I decided no, we can’t be friends.  Not knowing how to tell her, I’ve tried a number of means.  Ignoring her doesn’t work.  Telling her directly doesn’t work. Sugarcoating it doesn’t work.  So I’d gone back to ignoring her, until once more, today, she intrudes in my life.

-I’m truly sorry about this, it must seem that no matter what you do there is no way to "fix" things.  IMO she has the problem, not you and as wombn suggested maybe you should switch numbers. I mentioned, a while back, a friend who’d written a letter about me, full of hatred and illwill.  And so today, before I went to sleep, he walked around my mind, and I remembered scenes between us, his critical nature, his veiled insults, and I could almost hit myself for not seeing it all sooner.  My insight seems to kick in randomly; most times, it leaves me to fend for myself. The gifts of memory are unexpected, dysepiphanic.  And still I can’t help thinking I brought this on myself.  Brought what?  Brought ages, broken staircases, waterspots gradually darkening.  Fogged vision and sore hip. If you laugh at the wrong time, the balance tips, and discontent covers you like damp cloths.

-When I’m feeling particularly low, I can’t stop thinking about past occurences like these, or stupid things I’ve done.  When I look back at these moments it seems like it’s just another form of self-mutilation to make myself feel pain. I’m so upset, simply; less simply, I’m appalled and frightened and angry and melancholy.  When the present is bad, I retreat to my past–only to find that it, too, is bad. cp

-Please try and push these thoughts away (oh, I know, easily said).  But the mind will play cruel games with you when you’re down. Take care of you, Dee e’d & p’d

Response:

Charles, I read this dear, and I had this overwhelming urge to come over there and be your receptionist.

Hehe…be prepared for long lunch breaks, and plenty of leave time, considering I get about two calls a month. who wishes she could have stated this in a more ….. uhhhhh ….. nice way?

There almost is no nice way.  You should see how hard I grit my teeth when I have to talk to some people.  I’ve gotten too used to the online luxury of marking things read and deleting them when I don’t want to see them. I’ve been trying to distract myself all night.  And it’s not really working.  It’s not the phonecall so much, as what it represents, yet another intrusion into…into *everything*.  I spend my life trying to build safety, and more than that, approval, but I’m constantly being made aware that other people don’t give a damn for what I want.  Could I have become this way, fearful and sad and lacking control, without all these people who would like to make me fit into their pictures, whether that picture is good little boy, good little boyfriend, or simply good little target? I’ve talked recently about the voices in my head–the puppets who tell me their opinions of me, rather than me having access to *my* opinions of me. And I think, those voices didn’t just pop out of nowhere.  Someone put them there.   The two biggest metaphors I use for my mind, are the puppets, and the meat machines.  The machines, in their contradictory workings (Pull Towards working at the same time as Push Away, Overwhelming Interest clunking alongside Empty Boredom), didn’t come with this brain.  Someone put them there. And this makes me so angry, so helpless-feeling.  The notion that, sometime in the past, people pressing in on me with their expectations and hatreds put ideas in my head, self-destructive ideas, is too unjust for words.  If it was done so easily before, it could easily be done now.  Another good argument for isolation, if the damage weren’t already done. Let me sigh a big, heaving sigh. cp — **  Baywatch Barbie and her pet dolphin do not move by themselves  ** *    yet MORE new pages!    http://www.mindspring.com/~capadgett    * ***                Terror Is The Order Of The Day                 ***

Response:

Charles, I read this dear, and I had this overwhelming urge to come over there and be your receptionist. This is why doctors sometimes hire snakes from hell to answer the phones or to collect bills.  If they went into the profession with a tender heart they just can’t bring themselves to do what has to be done.  So they hire someone to do it for them, or they go broke or work themselves to death. I have learned how to be a snake from hell.  This person you talk about …  When someone is THIS manipulative, THIS selfish, THIS .. "I know cp will talk to me anyway ..", I would just like to be the one answering the phone. I know my feelings are from my past when I was on some kind of list for the "user/abuser" society.  Those who would have sucked me dry and then got angry that I was dry …. afterall, how dare *I* be dry when THEY Oh, disregard.  Unless you want to forward the call to ME.  I’ll be more than happy to blow her doors off. Anne who wishes she could have stated this in a more ….. uhhhhh ….. nice way? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m breathing vapors, the air thick with water.  It is the worst time to sleep, drowning in dreams after lying awake for an hour, accounting for my life.  Wondering why remembering the smallest normal thing is an effort, while painful events from years ago fight for which will spring to mind first. My mother knocked on my door this afternoon, waking me from more troublesome psychodrama.  I had a phone call, and I dragged myself to the desk to see who wanted to talk.  As soon as I heard her voice, a great wrenching mental sigh rose from me like steam.  A friend.  An acquaintance. A problem.  Another body of memory.  History. Rendered down to its essentials, the caller wanted me to know that she was involved with someone else, and that she wasn’t interested in me. Normally, people don’t call from the other end of the country to mention these things to me, but she’s often felt the need.  As though my own lack of interest were something to be countered in kind.  Our last three conversations have ended (and begun) badly:  each time, I have tried as politely as possible to insist that she stay out of my life; each time, she has travelled from a superior smile that assumes I’m hiding some deep love for her, to rage that I’m hiding no such thing. Oh, I’ve tried.  We’ve gone down the "can’t we be friends" route a thousand times, until her problems and willful self-disgust begin to bother me. Until hearing her voice, so plaintive, so manipulatory, pushes out every bit of friendly care I might have for her.  And after a while, I decided no, we can’t be friends.  Not knowing how to tell her, I’ve tried a number of means.  Ignoring her doesn’t work.  Telling her directly doesn’t work. Sugarcoating it doesn’t work.  So I’d gone back to ignoring her, until once more, today, she intrudes in my life. You can’t escape history. I mentioned, a while back, a friend who’d written a letter about me, full of hatred and illwill.  And so today, before I went to sleep, he walked around my mind, and I remembered scenes between us, his critical nature, his veiled insults, and I could almost hit myself for not seeing it all sooner.  My insight seems to kick in randomly; most times, it leaves me to fend for myself. The gifts of memory are unexpected, dysepiphanic.  And still I can’t help thinking I brought this on myself.  Brought what?  Brought ages, broken staircases, waterspots gradually darkening.  Fogged vision and sore hip. If you laugh at the wrong time, the balance tips, and discontent covers you like damp cloths. I’m so upset, simply; less simply, I’m appalled and frightened and angry and melancholy.  When the present is bad, I retreat to my past–only to find that it, too, is bad. cp — **  Baywatch Barbie and her pet dolphin do not move by themselves  ** *    yet MORE new pages!    http://www.mindspring.com/~capadgett    * ***                Terror Is The Order Of The Day                 ***

– For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m breathing vapors, the air thick with water.  It is the worst time to sleep, drowning in dreams after lying awake for an hour, accounting for my life.  Wondering why remembering the smallest normal thing is an effort, while painful events from years ago fight for which will spring to mind first. My mother knocked on my door this afternoon, waking me from more troublesome psychodrama.  I had a phone call, and I dragged myself to the desk to see who wanted to talk.  As soon as I heard her voice, a great wrenching mental sigh rose from me like steam.  A friend.  An acquaintance. A problem.  Another body of memory.  History. Rendered down to its essentials, the caller wanted me to know that she was involved with someone else, and that she wasn’t interested in me. Normally, people don’t call from the other end of the country to mention these things to me, but she’s often felt the need.  As though my own lack of interest were something to be countered in kind.  Our last three conversations have ended (and begun) badly:  each time, I have tried as politely as possible to insist that she stay out of my life; each time, she has travelled from a superior smile that assumes I’m hiding some deep love for her, to rage that I’m hiding no such thing. Oh, I’ve tried.  We’ve gone down the "can’t we be friends" route a thousand times, until her problems and willful self-disgust begin to bother me. Until hearing her voice, so plaintive, so manipulatory, pushes out every bit of friendly care I might have for her.  And after a while, I decided no, we can’t be friends.  Not knowing how to tell her, I’ve tried a number of means.  Ignoring her doesn’t work.  Telling her directly doesn’t work. Sugarcoating it doesn’t work.  So I’d gone back to ignoring her, until once more, today, she intrudes in my life. You can’t escape history. I mentioned, a while back, a friend who’d written a letter about me, full of hatred and illwill.  And so today, before I went to sleep, he walked around my mind, and I remembered scenes between us, his critical nature, his veiled insults, and I could almost hit myself for not seeing it all sooner.  My insight seems to kick in randomly; most times, it leaves me to fend for myself. The gifts of memory are unexpected, dysepiphanic.  And still I can’t help thinking I brought this on myself.  Brought what?  Brought ages, broken staircases, waterspots gradually darkening.  Fogged vision and sore hip. If you laugh at the wrong time, the balance tips, and discontent covers you like damp cloths. I’m so upset, simply; less simply, I’m appalled and frightened and angry and melancholy.  When the present is bad, I retreat to my past–only to find that it, too, is bad. cp

I think for the first time cp – I don’t know what to say…. <<<<<CP <<<<<CP <<<<<CP <<<<<CP <<<<<CP<<<<<CP<<<<<CP<<<<<CP <<<<<CP <<<<<CP <<<<<CP <<<<<CP <<<<<CP<<<<<CP<<<<<CP<<<<<CP I have realized that I can no longer afford the luxury of feelings. I can not afford the luxury of tears, or the sadness or pain. I am alone. In this lone and dreary world only those that have someone in their lives to share with, can afford such a luxury. Those of us that are alone can not allow ourselves the benefit of emotions. Lady A/ Life is a nightmare walking. Death is a going home.

Response:

I’m breathing vapors, the air thick with water.  It is the worst time to sleep, drowning in dreams after lying awake for an hour, accounting for my life.  Wondering why remembering the smallest normal thing is an effort, while painful events from years ago fight for which will spring to mind first. My mother knocked on my door this afternoon, waking me from more troublesome psychodrama.  I had a phone call, and I dragged myself to the desk to see who wanted to talk.  As soon as I heard her voice, a great wrenching mental sigh rose from me like steam.  A friend.  An acquaintance. A problem.  Another body of memory.  History. Rendered down to its essentials, the caller wanted me to know that she was involved with someone else, and that she wasn’t interested in me. Normally, people don’t call from the other end of the country to mention these things to me, but she’s often felt the need.  As though my own lack of interest were something to be countered in kind.  Our last three conversations have ended (and begun) badly:  each time, I have tried as politely as possible to insist that she stay out of my life; each time, she has travelled from a superior smile that assumes I’m hiding some deep love for her, to rage that I’m hiding no such thing. Oh, I’ve tried.  We’ve gone down the "can’t we be friends" route a thousand times, until her problems and willful self-disgust begin to bother me. Until hearing her voice, so plaintive, so manipulatory, pushes out every bit of friendly care I might have for her.  And after a while, I decided no, we can’t be friends.  Not knowing how to tell her, I’ve tried a number of means.  Ignoring her doesn’t work.  Telling her directly doesn’t work. Sugarcoating it doesn’t work.  So I’d gone back to ignoring her, until once more, today, she intrudes in my life. You can’t escape history.   I mentioned, a while back, a friend who’d written a letter about me, full of hatred and illwill.  And so today, before I went to sleep, he walked around my mind, and I remembered scenes between us, his critical nature, his veiled insults, and I could almost hit myself for not seeing it all sooner.  My insight seems to kick in randomly; most times, it leaves me to fend for myself. The gifts of memory are unexpected, dysepiphanic.  And still I can’t help thinking I brought this on myself.  Brought what?  Brought ages, broken staircases, waterspots gradually darkening.  Fogged vision and sore hip. If you laugh at the wrong time, the balance tips, and discontent covers you like damp cloths. I’m so upset, simply; less simply, I’m appalled and frightened and angry and melancholy.  When the present is bad, I retreat to my past–only to find that it, too, is bad. cp — **  Baywatch Barbie and her pet dolphin do not move by themselves  ** *    yet MORE new pages!    http://www.mindspring.com/~capadgett    * ***                Terror Is The Order Of The Day                 ***

Response:

Question:

Hmmm, you should stop by the corner hardware store in Waverly Square, Belmont, Mass — if the do-hickey comes in a package of six and you want just one, they’ll open the package for you.  Nice guys.  Also happy to help you figure out what damn screw size you *really* need.

MD Hey O’Deen, you forgot "do-hickey". When I was a teenager my father owned MD a hardware store and we sold a lot of "do-hickeys". Come to think of it, MD we sold a lot of "thing-a-ma-bobs" too. It was an old-fashion type of MD hardware store where you could buy a washer intead of plastic bag of seven MD washers. Gee, that brings back some fond memories. Thanks. MD Mike MD | Mike DeLong                              Voice: (214) 768-2802          | MD | Director of Endowment Management           Fax: (214) 768-3786          | MD | 6425 Boaz Lane  Suite 202B                                              | MD | Dallas, TX   75275-0193                                                 | — Patricia Hawkins Burlington, MA, USA

Response:

<snip It occurs to me it might be easier to use a heat gun to remove the paint. Also quite a bit cheaper than buying a planer, if that’s your only purpose for the machine.  Also, it was suggested in some earlier posts that it is very tough on a planer to plane painted wood. Just a suggestion.   Mark Ponton

Thanks – I’m sure that I’ll have other uses for the planer as time goes on. I’m also sure that if I have to use a heat gun and a scraper, the job will never get done.

Response:

I m planning to do some work on my deck – replacing some bad boards and planing the rest. The planing is necessary to smooth the boards and to remove the previous owner s paint job so that I can put a wood stain on the boards.

It occurs to me it might be easier to use a heat gun to remove the paint. Also quite a bit cheaper than buying a planer, if that’s your only purpose for the machine.  Also, it was suggested in some earlier posts that it is very tough on a planer to plane painted wood. Just a suggestion.   Mark Ponton

Response:

I