not the end of the world mate… just calm down for a sec. nothing is worth taking a human life over… just step back for a sec… its just a job.
Hehe i picked accounting and got a job at a big firm until I f’d up and got a drunk driving. One mistake and no more work for me.. Noone wants me anymore. Isn’t life grand. Pathetic i’m applying at gas stations now. Dreams of becoming a CPA down the drain.. Next is a bullet in my head if things don’t work out. Good luck! I am about to finish my HND Accounting and am not sure whether to find a job in an accounting related field and continue studying part time or to carry on with full time education for another 2 years. what are the pros and cons of either choice.
— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Why does it matter, unless you ran over your boss while DUI?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hehe i picked accounting and got a job at a big firm until I f’d up and got a drunk driving. One mistake and no more work for me.. Noone wants me anymore. Isn’t life grand. Pathetic i’m applying at gas stations now. Dreams of becoming a CPA down the drain.. Next is a bullet in my head if things don’t work out. Good luck! I am about to finish my HND Accounting and am not sure whether to find a job in an accounting related field and continue studying part time or to carry on with full time education for another 2 years. what are the pros and cons of either choice.
Why does it matter, unless you ran over your boss while DUI?
Or a big client was in the back seat……or the President of the State Board of Accountancy…… — Have no fear of perfection – you’ll never reach it. Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia taxman at negia.net
Hehe i picked accounting and got a job at a big firm until I f’d up and got a drunk driving. One mistake and no more work for me.. Noone wants me anymore. Isn’t life grand. Pathetic i’m applying at gas stations now. Dreams of becoming a CPA down the drain.. Next is a bullet in my head if things don’t work out. Good luck!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about to finish my HND Accounting and am not sure whether to find a job in an accounting related field and continue studying part time or to carry on with full time education for another 2 years. what are the pros and cons of either choice.
Hehe i picked accounting and got a job at a big firm until I f’d up and got a drunk driving. One mistake and no more work for me.. Noone wants me anymore. Isn’t life grand. Pathetic i’m applying at gas stations now. Dreams of becoming a CPA down the drain.. Next is a bullet in my head if things don’t work out. Good luck!
I know a very sucessful CPA who had a DUI conviction !! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about to finish my HND Accounting and am not sure whether to find a job in an accounting related field and continue studying part time or to carry on with full time education for another 2 years. what are the pros and cons of either choice.
I am about to finish my HND Accounting and am not sure whether to find a job in an accounting related field and continue studying part time or to carry on with full time education for another 2 years. what are the pros and cons of either choice.
Please explain to us what HND is so we can better answer your question. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation
I am about to finish my HND Accounting and am not sure whether to find a job in an accounting related field and continue studying part time or to carry on with full time education for another 2 years. what are the pros and cons of either choice.
Please explain to us what HND is so we can better answer your question.
The best I can tell, it’s something like an AA degree or similar from a tech school in the UK. http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Home_page/Your_HND____what_ne… — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia taxman at negia.net
I am about to finish my HND Accounting and am not sure whether to find a job in an accounting related field and continue studying part time or to carry on with full time education for another 2 years. what are the pros and cons of either choice.
I am not sure what is your point- but since you love to show how smart you are in stealing, my guess is that you will talk yourself into a jail house one of those days. People who are really smart and do big steals do not post for the glory of it- to gloat like a total idiot who have no clue as to what internal controls is and what is not. I would be actually glad if all all crooks out there were like you- it would be easy to spot since you sound really stupid. Unfortunately this is really not the case and some people, who understand the game and what they are doing, can do real damage regardless of SOX or internal controls. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Section 906 is like taking the 5th Amendment. IF you don’t want to tell the truth, you will certifiy that the financials are "materially correct". I understand this. But, how do you firm up internal controls in a small company,when it is you, the asssistant controller and the owner. That’s it. The owner leaves town and signs a bunch of checks "just in case you need them". Obviously a NO, NO. I could write a couple of them to myself and cash them. Doesn’t every company on this planet do this? Come on guys. Or how about overbilling a customer to "pump up the revenues for a quarter". Everybody does it then reverses the entry the following month, right? The CPA is supposed to catch this, but you will be surprised how many companies get away with this practice. In my present job I have to have receivables that I can borrow against. So naturally, if I need more AR, I can create them like right now. Reverse them the next month and there we are. The boss needed an extra $25k for personal expenses and asked me what I could do. I told him what I could do. He thought it was cool. Problem solved. So if you want to do these sort of things, you can do it. I should write a book. It would be titled, "What A Bunch of SOX, A Guide To Getting Around SOX". I bet every controller and CFO in the country would read it too. If you figure there are about a million CPA’s and 10% bought the book, it would make the NY best seller’s list. Just a thought. You sound like an idiot to me. Anyone can cook the books; it’s not difficult. You don’t have to worry about your audit committee or your auditors, unless it’s obvious. If you’re a CFO/CEO, however, you mightl worry about the Section 906 (Sarbanes Oxley) certification that you’re signing with every 10K/10Q. In signing this certification, you open yourself up to criminal penalites, not just civil. To answer the previous poster’s question, yes I believe Sarbanes Oxley is having an effect. Listen, anyone who wants to engage in fraudulent reporting is going to do so, and SOX is not going to change that. But that’s usually not the case. What happens with a lot of public companies (particularly small ones) is that they do not have adequate internal controls or disclosure controls to make sure that things that need to be disclosed are getting disclosed. SOX forces us (I’m from such a company) to beef up these controls since we are required to assert their effectiveness and have that assertion opined on by our auditor. Unfortunately, an old hand like me can hide, misallocate, co-mingle–in short, cook the books. I’ve done it at two companies before SOX, two Big 4 CPA firms audited our books, and could not find a damn thing. It was right there in front of them, and me and my assistant controller were betting they would not find it. It was beautiful man. I know the tricks of the trade because I learned it from another CPA, really good one too. When he become CFO after working as a senior manager at a Big 4, he pretty much knew every trick there was. I passed those same tricks to my assistant. He is now CFO of a public company. When I last spoke with him, he told me he was under the gun to meet EPS expectations. Like ESP we both thought of a solution to solve the problem. EPS expectations were met. If the audit committee ever had to roll up their sleeves and do the work to find things, they would, but most of them just aren’t qualified. If it looks good, it’s probably right. This is all true and if you guys want to know the names of the companies, that’s just too bad. Marcello do Guzman I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While I can certainly appreciate and commiserate with those who have had to bear inordinate costs to meet compliance, there are potentially very real benefits if one were to look at a Sarbanes-Oxley project as a foundation for establishing better business performance metrics. The surface areas that the regulations were intended to address cannot be legislated against; i.e. ‘cooking the books’ and willful perpetration of fraud by a compliant management team. Most of the audit methodologies and technologies merely deal with the top level numbers, over a very limited time frame, and the manifestation of financial shenanigans is not easily identified without more comprehensive analytical tools, ‘drilling down’ deeper into the sub-ledgers and analyzing far more than 2 periods to understand the impact and trends that can be revealed with such a thorough analysis. Further, it is imperative to go beyond ‘audit by conversation’, and let the record reveal the facts rather than just accept management’s explanations only. However, the real issues that are not part of the legislation relate to how we manage our businesses and how we measure performance. In many situations, poor business trends that may have been better managed created the spiral of events that led to creating fraudulent activities to ‘cover up’ poor business performance. Obviously, some of the more notorious cases involved outright greed, but fundamentally, it has been stated that most businesses operate using less than 10% of the available information when making decisions. The closer one gets to the ‘action’ the less likely it is that the manager accountable for performance has the tools or data readily available when they make their operational decisions. In the long run, looking at the forced process improvements that Sarbanes-Oxley and other types of compliance legislation make us address could result in something far greater than ‘less typos on a 10-Q’, and afford us the opportunity to move beyond compliance into a progressive organization that learns to manage effectively using technology, tools and better accountability for decision-makers at every level. wjr
It was recently pointed out to me that the reason Andersen was willing to be so loose in its’ audit practices as with Enron is that the law making all partners equally liable for the misdeeds of any one partner were removed a few years ago. That means that any partner can use the reputation of the partnership to get the business, then fail to practice good, conservative accounting. The profits from that go to all the partners, but the risk lies only with the single partner who is doing shoddy accounting. It also means that a company that is looking for shoddy accounting will choose the auditors who offer the loosest standards. Sort of Gresham’s Law where bad auditing drives out the good. All the partners get the profits from the misdeeds of the one, and when the bill comes due, only the sacrificial goat has to pay. The rest keep what they were paid. Auditing firms with good internal controls will lose the most lucrative business to the ones with the weakest, and all the partners in that firm with weak controls except the sacrificial goat get the profits. For a long time, there is not even a sacrificial goat. This will happen when the economy lets even poor firms grow. The collapse only occurs when the economy gets bad and the poor firms get caught. Who knows how many potential sacrificial goats avoided that fate? It makes offering bad auditing services a very profitable business. Andersen may have disappeared, but most of the partners made out like bandits and moved on. Sarbanes-Oxley does not address this issue. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
The only way for auditing to work is for the auditor to become fully independent. This can be done by having companies pay into a pot and the auditors will receive their fees from the pot. Too many loop holes in S-O.
When I was a wee laddie in my first job, we were taught 3 little letters "C.Y.A." (and this was with a big eight!) Isn’t this what Sarbanes-Oxley, GAAP, IFRS etc. all about. Accountants have basically lost their ba..s, sorry I mean nerve and now hide behind processes and box ticking. Is this a result of: 1) immoral /amoral standards, 2) our litigious society, 3) poor training, 4) over complicated standards or 5) overpaid bankers thinking up complicated transactions.
or all of the above with a hefty dose of stock options
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not sure what is your point- but since you love to show how smart you are in stealing, my guess is that you will talk yourself into a jail house one of those days. People who are really smart and do big steals do not post for the glory of it- to gloat like a total idiot
When I was a wee laddie in my first job, we were taught 3 little letters "C.Y.A." (and this was with a big eight!) Isn’t this what Sarbanes-Oxley, GAAP, IFRS etc. all about. Accountants have basically lost their ba..s, sorry I mean nerve and now hide behind processes and box ticking. Is this a result of: 1) immoral /amoral standards, 2) our litigious society, 3) poor training, 4) over complicated standards or 5) overpaid bankers thinking up complicated transactions. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not sure what is your point- but since you love to show how smart you are in stealing, my guess is that you will talk yourself into a jail house one of those days. People who are really smart and do big steals do not post for the glory of it- to gloat like a total idiot
I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
John, I have been working with Sarbanes-Oxley for over a year now. I am an independent director and the chairman of the audit committee. The company has doubled its director overhead since S-Ox. Has there been any increase in accountability? The internal accounting procedure has not changed. The quality of the financial information is just as good as it was before S-Ox. Reporting to the outside directors has increased the workload so much, they had to increase staff. The auditors have increased their fees by over 10% this year and expect to double the fee next year because of S-Ox. The cost benefit ratio is an issue because you cannot divide a number by zero. Because independent directors are required to "sign on the dotted line" they review everything in great depth. The result: there are far fewer typos in 10-K and 10-Q, but this does not mean better accounting or more accountability. It was great to begin with. The legal bills have nearly tripled too. Great for the legal profession. Aren’t most legislators lawyer? Is that a coincidence? Or, am I a cynic. The company is in compliance with all of the provisions of S-Ox, from the whistleblower requirement to having a majority of independent directors. I’ve just returned from NYC from the mandated quarterly independent directors meetings. We spent time with attorneys, auditors, and we grilled the company’s management. What a great waste of time and money. My opinion of S-Ox is not obviously very positive. It seems that S-Ox has everyone running around with fire extinguishers when the problem is flood waters. The law was well intended, but it was clearly written by someone that has no idea what accounting or business is about. Just my opinion. Arnold – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
It really hasn’t effected me much. I still keep excess reserves and make last minute releases to meet EPS expectations. My auditors get on my case, but they need the fee, so they’ll sign off.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
I’m joking of course.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It really hasn’t effected me much. I still keep excess reserves and make last minute releases to meet EPS expectations. My auditors get on my case, but they need the fee, so they’ll sign off. I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
While I can certainly appreciate and commiserate with those who have had to bear inordinate costs to meet compliance, there are potentially very real benefits if one were to look at a Sarbanes-Oxley project as a foundation for establishing better business performance metrics. The surface areas that the regulations were intended to address cannot be legislated against; i.e. ‘cooking the books’ and willful perpetration of fraud by a compliant management team. Most of the audit methodologies and technologies merely deal with the top level numbers, over a very limited time frame, and the manifestation of financial shenanigans is not easily identified without more comprehensive analytical tools, ‘drilling down’ deeper into the sub-ledgers and analyzing far more than 2 periods to understand the impact and trends that can be revealed with such a thorough analysis. Further, it is imperative to go beyond ‘audit by conversation’, and let the record reveal the facts rather than just accept management’s explanations only. However, the real issues that are not part of the legislation relate to how we manage our businesses and how we measure performance. In many situations, poor business trends that may have been better managed created the spiral of events that led to creating fraudulent activities to ‘cover up’ poor business performance. Obviously, some of the more notorious cases involved outright greed, but fundamentally, it has been stated that most businesses operate using less than 10% of the available information when making decisions. The closer one gets to the ‘action’ the less likely it is that the manager accountable for performance has the tools or data readily available when they make their operational decisions. In the long run, looking at the forced process improvements that Sarbanes-Oxley and other types of compliance legislation make us address could result in something far greater than ‘less typos on a 10-Q’, and afford us the opportunity to move beyond compliance into a progressive organization that learns to manage effectively using technology, tools and better accountability for decision-makers at every level. wjr
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
Section 906 is like taking the 5th Amendment. IF you don’t want to tell the truth, you will certifiy that the financials are "materially correct". I understand this. But, how do you firm up internal controls in a small company,when it is you, the asssistant controller and the owner. That’s it. The owner leaves town and signs a bunch of checks "just in case you need them". Obviously a NO, NO. I could write a couple of them to myself and cash them. Doesn’t every company on this planet do this? Come on guys. Or how about overbilling a customer to "pump up the revenues for a quarter". Everybody does it then reverses the entry the following month, right? The CPA is supposed to catch this, but you will be surprised how many companies get away with this practice. In my present job I have to have receivables that I can borrow against. So naturally, if I need more AR, I can create them like right now. Reverse them the next month and there we are. The boss needed an extra $25k for personal expenses and asked me what I could do. I told him what I could do. He thought it was cool. Problem solved. So if you want to do these sort of things, you can do it. I should write a book. It would be titled, "What A Bunch of SOX, A Guide To Getting Around SOX". I bet every controller and CFO in the country would read it too. If you figure there are about a million CPA’s and 10% bought the book, it would make the NY best seller’s list. Just a thought. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You sound like an idiot to me. Anyone can cook the books; it’s not difficult. You don’t have to worry about your audit committee or your auditors, unless it’s obvious. If you’re a CFO/CEO, however, you mightl worry about the Section 906 (Sarbanes Oxley) certification that you’re signing with every 10K/10Q. In signing this certification, you open yourself up to criminal penalites, not just civil. To answer the previous poster’s question, yes I believe Sarbanes Oxley is having an effect. Listen, anyone who wants to engage in fraudulent reporting is going to do so, and SOX is not going to change that. But that’s usually not the case. What happens with a lot of public companies (particularly small ones) is that they do not have adequate internal controls or disclosure controls to make sure that things that need to be disclosed are getting disclosed. SOX forces us (I’m from such a company) to beef up these controls since we are required to assert their effectiveness and have that assertion opined on by our auditor. Unfortunately, an old hand like me can hide, misallocate, co-mingle–in short, cook the books. I’ve done it at two companies before SOX, two Big 4 CPA firms audited our books, and could not find a damn thing. It was right there in front of them, and me and my assistant controller were betting they would not find it. It was beautiful man. I know the tricks of the trade because I learned it from another CPA, really good one too. When he become CFO after working as a senior manager at a Big 4, he pretty much knew every trick there was. I passed those same tricks to my assistant. He is now CFO of a public company. When I last spoke with him, he told me he was under the gun to meet EPS expectations. Like ESP we both thought of a solution to solve the problem. EPS expectations were met. If the audit committee ever had to roll up their sleeves and do the work to find things, they would, but most of them just aren’t qualified. If it looks good, it’s probably right. This is all true and if you guys want to know the names of the companies, that’s just too bad. Marcello do Guzman I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
You sound like an idiot to me. Anyone can cook the books; it’s not difficult. You don’t have to worry about your audit committee or your auditors, unless it’s obvious. If you’re a CFO/CEO, however, you might worry about the Section 906 (Sarbanes Oxley) certification that you’re signing with every 10K/10Q. In signing this certification, you open yourself up to criminal penalites, not just civil. To answer the previous poster’s question, yes I believe Sarbanes Oxley is having an effect. Listen, anyone who wants to engage in fraudulent reporting is going to do so, and SOX is not going to change that. But that’s usually not the case. What happens with a lot of public companies (particularly small ones) is that they do not have adequate internal controls or disclosure controls to make sure that things that need to be disclosed are getting disclosed. SOX forces us (I’m from such a company) to beef up these controls since we are required to assert their effectiveness and have that assertion opined on by our auditor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunately, an old hand like me can hide, misallocate, co-mingle–in short, cook the books. I’ve done it at two companies before SOX, two Big 4 CPA firms audited our books, and could not find a damn thing. It was right there in front of them, and me and my assistant controller were betting they would not find it. It was beautiful man. I know the tricks of the trade because I learned it from another CPA, really good one too. When he become CFO after working as a senior manager at a Big 4, he pretty much knew every trick there was. I passed those same tricks to my assistant. He is now CFO of a public company. When I last spoke with him, he told me he was under the gun to meet EPS expectations. Like ESP we both thought of a solution to solve the problem. EPS expectations were met. If the audit committee ever had to roll up their sleeves and do the work to find things, they would, but most of them just aren’t qualified. If it looks good, it’s probably right. This is all true and if you guys want to know the names of the companies, that’s just too bad. Marcello do Guzman I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
Unfortunately, an old hand like me can hide, misallocate, co-mingle–in short, cook the books. I’ve done it at two companies before SOX, two Big 4 CPA firms audited our books, and could not find a damn thing. It was right there in front of them, and me and my assistant controller were betting they would not find it. It was beautiful man. I know the tricks of the trade because I learned it from another CPA, really good one too. When he become CFO after working as a senior manager at a Big 4, he pretty much knew every trick there was. I passed those same tricks to my assistant. He is now CFO of a public company. When I last spoke with him, he told me he was under the gun to meet EPS expectations. Like ESP we both thought of a solution to solve the problem. EPS expectations were met. If the audit committee ever had to roll up their sleeves and do the work to find things, they would, but most of them just aren’t qualified. If it looks good, it’s probably right. This is all true and if you guys want to know the names of the companies, that’s just too bad. Marcello do Guzman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been speaking with some people about Sarbarnes-Oxley. I have heard some odd reactions to the act; Some people feel that there is more accountability to promote accountability, with all the managers down the line signing off on the financial statements. Are people more cognizant now that they have to "sign on the dotted line"? Does anyone come from a company that was kind of light on documentation before the act came out? Also, how has the act affected people who work in internal audit differently than people who work in external audit?
In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, "Roger R."
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was recently pointed out to me that the reason Andersen was willing to be so loose in its’ audit practices as with Enron is that the law making all partners equally liable for the misdeeds of any one partner were removed a few years ago. That means that any partner can use the reputation of the partnership to get the business, then fail to practice good, conservative accounting. The profits from that go to all the partners, but the risk lies only with the single partner who is doing shoddy accounting. Yeah, I have to agree with that. The big firms have so many partners that it is unlikely that they will all ever meet, which obviously leads to an unwillingness to be totally responsible for one anothers’ actions. But the _real_ control always was the fact that they were jointly responsible. I think that a return to that would be a meaningful repair. It might mean that firms would become somewhat limited in size, as the set of people willing to trust one another as partners might be limited. In effect, each partner MUST have a veto on every would-be new partner. And that veto needs to be used, because partnership isn’t a glorified "gold star;" it represents acknowledging a legal relationship loosely equivalent to marriage. — http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linuxdistributions.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #179. "I will not outsource core functions." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/
Decent controls could minimize the risk, and if they were overseen by an insurance company who was on the hook for a certain part of malpractice liability they probably could have quite large firms. You remember "controls", don’t you? That is the real issue, not size of the firm. Those were the things good auditors made sure their clients had but which were skipped at Enron, WorldCom, etc. In my opinion, the problem wasn’t that partners were especially likely to be hit for too many judgments. It is that the auditing firms were going along with their customers and eliminating controls as unnecessary and excessively expensive. The big five got caught up in the same atmosphere as the rest of business, and Andersen died as a result. As did Enron, WorldCom, etc.
It was recently pointed out to me that the reason Andersen was willing to be so loose in its’ audit practices as with Enron is that the law making all partners equally liable for the misdeeds of any one partner were removed a few years ago. That means that any partner can use the reputation of the partnership to get the business, then fail to practice good, conservative accounting. The profits from that go to all the partners, but the risk lies only with the single partner who is doing shoddy accounting.
Yeah, I have to agree with that. The big firms have so many partners that it is unlikely that they will all ever meet, which obviously leads to an unwillingness to be totally responsible for one anothers’ actions. But the _real_ control always was the fact that they were jointly responsible. I think that a return to that would be a meaningful repair. It might mean that firms would become somewhat limited in size, as the set of people willing to trust one another as partners might be limited. In effect, each partner MUST have a veto on every would-be new partner. And that veto needs to be used, because partnership isn’t a glorified "gold star;" it represents acknowledging a legal relationship loosely equivalent to marriage. — http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linuxdistributions.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #179. "I will not outsource core functions." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry for any confusion, I am a newbie, remember? "Wages" below is the cash expense I was referring to. Wages are no different from wages that are actually paid. The vacation time is not paid out, but would appear on cash-based reports as the wages form the journal entry below, or am wrong? If it would, that is my problem. Thanks to all who responded. This probably won’t help clear things up, but cash basis folks would not accrue vacation. It cleared it up for me! That’s what I was thinking. If you’re accruing vacation, then you’re not really "cash-based." That’s probably why QB doesn’t do it. A true cash system would pay out the extra vacation money with each paycheck, leaving it up to the employee to save that money for their time off. I can’t imagine that ever happening, but a recent post here suggested that it is done at least in one company out there
You may want to think about the above again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – somewhere… Angela
My understanding was that QB allows you to store all transactions, liabilities, etc, and report on either cash or accrual basis. If you run reports on cash basis, you do not see accrued vacation; on accrual basis you do. What would be wrong with this? Would not it be nice to track your actual expenses and liabilities, even if not all of them are visible on all reports? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David is right. There are two types of accounting methods; 1) cash-basis and 2) accrual. In the text book world of accounting you cannot have receivables, payables, or accruals under the cash-basis accounting method, although many businesses try to do it that way. Jan "Wages" below is the cash expense I was referring to. Wages are no different from wages that are actually paid. The vacation time is not paid out, but would appear on cash-based reports as the wages form the journal entry below, or am wrong? If it would, that is my problem. This probably won’t help clear things up, but cash basis folks would not accrue vacation.
David is right. There are two types of accounting methods; 1) cash-basis and 2) accrual. In the text book world of accounting you cannot have receivables, payables, or accruals under the cash-basis accounting method, although many businesses try to do it that way. Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Wages" below is the cash expense I was referring to. Wages are no different from wages that are actually paid. The vacation time is not paid out, but would appear on cash-based reports as the wages form the journal entry below, or am wrong? If it would, that is my problem. This probably won’t help clear things up, but cash basis folks would not accrue vacation.
Sorry for any confusion, I am a newbie, remember? "Wages" below is the cash expense I was referring to. Wages are no different from wages that are actually paid. The vacation time is not paid out, but would appear on cash-based reports as the wages form the journal entry below, or am wrong? If it would, that is my problem. Thanks to all who responded. This probably won’t help clear things up, but cash basis folks would not accrue vacation.
It cleared it up for me! That’s what I was thinking. If you’re accruing vacation, then you’re not really "cash-based." That’s probably why QB doesn’t do it. A true cash system would pay out the extra vacation money with each paycheck, leaving it up to the employee to save that money for their time off. I can’t imagine that ever happening, but a recent post here suggested that it is done at least in one company out there somewhere… Angela
Sorry for any confusion, I am a newbie, remember? "Wages" below is the cash expense I was referring to. Wages are no different from wages that are actually paid. The vacation time is not paid out, but would appear on cash-based reports as the wages form the journal entry below, or am wrong? If it would, that is my problem. Thanks to all who responded.
This probably won’t help clear things up, but cash basis folks would not accrue vacation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – QB tracks vacation time, but to my understanding does not show it as a liability on, say, profit and loss reports. You can create a liability account and track accrued vacation there, in dollars; however, to increase the liability you need to record a cash expense. You need to record a journal entry not a cash expense. The entry is something like: Wages xxxxxxx Accrued vacation xxxxxxxxx In this case, the expense would show on cash-basis reports, even though no cash has been paid. This seems like a problem. Ideally, the liability should reflect the accrued vacation (on accrual based reports) but not on cash based reports Also ideally when the employees receive their vaction pay the accrual is automatically reversed. I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years. Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
Sorry for any confusion, I am a newbie, remember? "Wages" below is the cash expense I was referring to. Wages are no different from wages that are actually paid. The vacation time is not paid out, but would appear on cash-based reports as the wages form the journal entry below, or am wrong? If it would, that is my problem. Thanks to all who responded.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – QB tracks vacation time, but to my understanding does not show it as a liability on, say, profit and loss reports. You can create a liability account and track accrued vacation there, in dollars; however, to increase the liability you need to record a cash expense. You need to record a journal entry not a cash expense. The entry is something like: Wages xxxxxxx Accrued vacation xxxxxxxxx In this case, the expense would show on cash-basis reports, even though no cash has been paid. This seems like a problem. Ideally, the liability should reflect the accrued vacation (on accrual based reports) but not on cash based reports Also ideally when the employees receive their vaction pay the accrual is automatically reversed. I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years. Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
QB tracks vacation time, but to my understanding does not show it as a liability on, say, profit and loss reports. You can create a liability account and track accrued vacation there, in dollars; however, to increase the liability you need to record a cash expense.
You need to record a journal entry not a cash expense. The entry is something like: Wages xxxxxxx Accrued vacation xxxxxxxxx In this case, the expense would show on cash-basis reports, even though no cash has been paid. This seems like a problem. Ideally, the liability should reflect the accrued vacation (on accrual based reports) but not on cash based reports
Also ideally when the employees receive their vaction pay the accrual is automatically reversed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years. Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
Yes, I checked again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quite certain sort of leaves room for doubt. Do you know for a fact that it actually books the liability in the general ledger? I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years. Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
Liabilities are included on the balance sheet, not Profit and Loss. Payroll expense for my clients (in Canada) includes the vacation pay accrual, and the liability is included in payroll liabilities on the balance sheet. Apparently this is not the case in other countries. I’m confused by MG’s advice that you must record a "cash expense" to increase a liability. It seems to me that a "cash expense" reduces cash (asset) and increases an expense but does not affect a liability account. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – QB tracks vacation time, but to my understanding does not show it as a liability on, say, profit and loss reports. You can create a liability account and track accrued vacation there, in dollars; however, to increase the liability you need to record a cash expense. In this case, the expense would show on cash-basis reports, even though no cash has been paid. This seems like a problem. Ideally, the liability should reflect the accrued vacation (on accrual based reports) but not on cash based reports I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years. Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
Quite certain sort of leaves room for doubt. Do you know for a fact that it actually books the liability in the general ledger?
I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
QB tracks vacation time, but to my understanding does not show it as a liability on, say, profit and loss reports. You can create a liability account and track accrued vacation there, in dollars; however, to increase the liability you need to record a cash expense. In this case, the expense would show on cash-basis reports, even though no cash has been paid. This seems like a problem. Ideally, the liability should reflect the accrued vacation (on accrual based reports) but not on cash based reports
I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
I’m quite certain the Canadian edition has tracked accrued vacation pay for at least the last 3-4 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t expect to see this mid-range feature in QB for a long time if ever. The answer is no. You will have to record the accrual via journal entry. QuickBooks 2004 Thanks Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
QuickBooks 2004 Thanks
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think it would be helpful if you told us what software you were using? I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA —
I wonder if it is possible to tack accrued vacation so that company liability increases with every pay period (or every month, etc.), and reports on accrual basis show this liability, but reports on cash basis only show the vacation time actually taken and paid. TIA
Yes.
After the Army Vernona stuff from the forties and fifties was declassified, history shows that McCarthy wasn’t completely wrong. Further, it turned out that many of the people who criticized McCarthy were agents and agents of influence. Destroying lives based on slander, inuendo, and rumor and getting protection under Congressional immunity is ALWAYS completely wrong.
It is, from what I see every day, I guess it depends on who is doing it. McCarthy nearly destroyed what we fought WWII to defend: free speech, free press, freedom of association. That, by the way, was clearly his goal.
McCarthy was more right than wrong. He just wasn’t smart enough to see the difference. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
After the Army Vernona stuff from the forties and fifties was declassified, history shows that McCarthy wasn’t completely wrong. Further, it turned out that many of the people who criticized McCarthy were agents and agents of influence.
Destroying lives based on slander, inuendo, and rumor and getting protection under Congressional immunity is ALWAYS completely wrong. McCarthy nearly destroyed what we fought WWII to defend: free speech, free press, freedom of association. That, by the way, was clearly his goal. But enough politics. We stray off topic. SFC
An insider friend of mine says the products Citigroup sold to Enron were standard derivatives, sold to hundreds of other customers (mostly corporate and government). I can’t see how that’s "helping Enron prop up" their finances. This smacks of McCarthyism: find anyone you can accuse, and do so, ignoring the real facts. (Don’t forget how popular McCarthy got before his bubble burst) S.F. Cardwell
An insider friend of mine says the products Citigroup sold to Enron were standard derivatives, sold to hundreds of other customers (mostly corporate and government). I can’t see how that’s "helping Enron prop up" their finances. This smacks of McCarthyism: find anyone you can accuse, and do so, ignoring the real facts. (Don’t forget how popular McCarthy got before his bubble burst) S.F. Cardwell
If your right, your right. If your wrong, the lawyers will take care of it. I’m willing to wait and see. After the Army Vernona stuff from the forties and fifties was declassified, history shows that McCarthy wasn’t completely wrong. Further, it turned out that many of the people who criticized McCarthy were agents and agents of influence. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Investigators Say Hidden Loans Propped Up Enron July 22, 2002 03:04 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Major investment banks helped Enron Corp. for years by lending the fallen energy giant billions of dollars via elaborately disguised commodity trades, a congressional panel said on Monday, linking Wall Street more closely to the Enron debacle. Investigators for the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said Enron, bankrupt since December, obtained $8.5 billion in financing from 1992 to 2001 from Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. Inc., which collected hefty fees and interest payments. Since the Bush nay sayers like to point out that this "happened" under W’s watch, I’d like to take this opportunity to say, that while it came to light during W’s administration, it happened during the Clinton years. I suppose that the Clinton / Bush aspect of this situation is of interest to some, however, in my opinion that aspect is of little real importance. Think about the first paragraph. It appears that major investment banks (plural) helped Enron commit fraud "for years", and Andersen either helped or examined the data with blind eyes. Think of the implications. If investment banks and accounting firms were helping Enron commit fraud, might they also have been "helping" others; others that we do not yet know about? Just how big could this scandal get? Jim, yours truly couldn’t agree more about the irrelevance of Demorep analysis on this "bipartisan" issue. You are now beginning to understand more of the inner workings of the "soft occupational fraud" system, of which investment bankers and accountants are integral parts. Yours truly was an accountant in an investment banking financial group for several years and was able to observe the relevant operations first hand. His refusal to become an active instrument in such racketeering did not, no surprise, lead to a promotion.
A certain level of your "soft fraud" gets tolerated as it is deemed necessary to grease the wheels. However, I agree with you that it is way out of hand and it is past time for some "heads to roll." (figure of speech, not literally) — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
Investigators Say Hidden Loans Propped Up Enron July 22, 2002 03:04 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Major investment banks helped Enron Corp. for years by lending the fallen energy giant billions of dollars via elaborately disguised commodity trades,
Mr. Levin has an article in National Review Online that indicates Robert Rubin was in this mess. Interesting, he also points at Sen. Lieberman’s doing a duck and cover. — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant. * * Students, when someone tells you of your great future as * * an accountant, ask him to show you the job. *
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Investigators Say Hidden Loans Propped Up Enron July 22, 2002 03:04 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Major investment banks helped Enron Corp. for years by lending the fallen energy giant billions of dollars via elaborately disguised commodity trades, a congressional panel said on Monday, linking Wall Street more closely to the Enron debacle. Investigators for the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said Enron, bankrupt since December, obtained $8.5 billion in financing from 1992 to 2001 from Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. Inc., which collected hefty fees and interest payments. Since the Bush nay sayers like to point out that this "happened" under W’s watch, I’d like to take this opportunity to say, that while it came to light during W’s administration, it happened during the Clinton years. I suppose that the Clinton / Bush aspect of this situation is of interest to some, however, in my opinion that aspect is of little real importance. Think about the first paragraph. It appears that major investment banks (plural) helped Enron commit fraud "for years", and Andersen either helped or examined the data with blind eyes. Think of the implications. If investment banks and accounting firms were helping Enron commit fraud, might they also have been "helping" others; others that we do not yet know about? Just how big could this scandal get?
Jim, yours truly couldn’t agree more about the irrelevance of Demorep analysis on this "bipartisan" issue. You are now beginning to understand more of the inner workings of the "soft occupational fraud" system, of which investment bankers and accountants are integral parts. Yours truly was an accountant in an investment banking financial group for several years and was able to observe the relevant operations first hand. His refusal to become an active instrument in such racketeering did not, no surprise, lead to a promotion. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Kennedy counter-intelligence Legion of Doom cryptographic fissionable
Investigators Say Hidden Loans Propped Up Enron July 22, 2002 03:04 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Major investment banks helped Enron Corp. for years by lending the fallen energy giant billions of dollars via elaborately disguised commodity trades, a congressional panel said on Monday, linking Wall Street more closely to the Enron debacle. Investigators for the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said Enron, bankrupt since December, obtained $8.5 billion in financing from 1992 to 2001 from Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. Inc., which collected hefty fees and interest payments.
Since the Bush nay sayers like to point out that this "happened" under W’s watch, I’d like to take this opportunity to say, that while it came to light during W’s administration, it happened during the Clinton years. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia http://www.pat-cpa.com
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Investigators Say Hidden Loans Propped Up Enron July 22, 2002 03:04 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Major investment banks helped Enron Corp. for years by lending the fallen energy giant billions of dollars via elaborately disguised commodity trades, a congressional panel said on Monday, linking Wall Street more closely to the Enron debacle. Investigators for the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said Enron, bankrupt since December, obtained $8.5 billion in financing from 1992 to 2001 from Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. Inc., which collected hefty fees and interest payments. Since the Bush nay sayers like to point out that this "happened" under W’s watch, I’d like to take this opportunity to say, that while it came to light during W’s administration, it happened during the Clinton years.
I suppose that the Clinton / Bush aspect of this situation is of interest to some, however, in my opinion that aspect is of little real importance. Think about the first paragraph. It appears that major investment banks (plural) helped Enron commit fraud "for years", and Andersen either helped or examined the data with blind eyes. Think of the implications. If investment banks and accounting firms were helping Enron commit fraud, might they also have been "helping" others; others that we do not yet know about? Just how big could this scandal get? — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
Investigators Say Hidden Loans Propped Up Enron July 22, 2002 03:04 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Major investment banks helped Enron Corp. for years by lending the fallen energy giant billions of dollars via elaborately disguised commodity trades, a congressional panel said on Monday, linking Wall Street more closely to the Enron debacle. Investigators for the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said Enron, bankrupt since December, obtained $8.5 billion in financing from 1992 to 2001 from Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. Inc., which collected hefty fees and interest payments. <snip The commodity trades were known as "prepay" transactions. Enron booked proceeds from them as cash flow from operations, but should have booked it as debt, the committee said. "Certain financial institutions knowingly participated in, and indeed facilitated, transactions that Enron officials used to hide debt and, thereby, make the company’s financial position appear stronger than it actually was," Sen. Susan Collins, of Maine, the committee’s ranking Republican. Besides Citigroup and JP Morgan Chase, subcommittee staffers said smaller deals worth $1 billion in total involved Credit Suisse Group Inc., Barclays Plc, FleetBoston Financial Corp., Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc and Toronto-Dominion Bank. Shares in all seven financial institutions fell on Monday on stock exchanges in New York, London, Zurich and Toronto, as markets swooned again amid widening investor mistrust. <snip The subcommittee said it found that in 2000 Enron’s total debt would have been 40 percent higher, and its funds from operations 50 percent lower, if not for the prepay deals, which helped to support its credit rating and its stock price. The banks knew about this, and helped Enron hide its debt by letting it do complex, prepay trades through offshore, bank-controlled special-purpose entities, investigators said. Massive class-action lawsuits filed this spring by Enron investors and former employees have named as defendants Citigroup, JP Morgan, Credit Suisse, Barclays and other leading banks, alleging they schemed with former Enron executives to bilk investors out of tens of billions of dollars. http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=RE55ONFMO2UK0CRB… — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com
07-06 Large wedding candy This account did not make any gross profit for the organization though it made revenues from the outgoing of units to the commercial receivables as the price of their outgoing to the commercial receivables equals their cost price. If the cost price is less than the selling price the difference would represent gross profit as indicated in this account. We notice that there are some materials added to that account at different prices which makes us wonder about the reason. Page no.07-06 Sub-major acc. name: Large wedding candy Form #4 Left side | (-) | Date |Equation|Description | (-) | (+) |Tangible| |number | | | |units | | | |$ |cent|$ |cent|Weight | 17/2/88|2/24 |Large wedding | | |3 |- | | | |candy/ factory | | | | | | 19/2/88|2/26 |Large wedding | | |18 |- | | | |candy/ factory | | | | | | 23/2/88|2/29 |Commercial |18 |- | | |20 | | |receivables / | | | | | | | |large wedding | | | | | | | |candy | | | | | | Total | | |18 |- |21 |- |20 | Right side | (+) | Unit price| Unit’s nature |Tangible units| $ |cent | |Weight | 1 |- |Large wedding candy |3 | – |900 |Large wedding candy |20 | – |900 |Large wedding candy | | | |Total |23 | 07-07 Unstuffy candy This account includes 3 added tangible units measured by weight (kilogram) ,their nature is candy and specified as unstuffy candy. Their sum represents the number of units 3 x unit price .650 cents = $ 1.950 with the (+) sign of its added units.These units were sent from the organization’s factory to its exhibition as indicated in equation 2/24 at 17/2/1988 so the final balance of this account represents 3 units added by the kilogram with sum of $ 1.950 with the (+) sign. Page no.07-07 Sub-major acc. name: Unstuffy candy Form #4 Left side Date |Equation|Description | (-) | (+) | |number | | | | | | |$ |cent|$ |cent| 17/2/88|2/24 |Unstuffy candy | | |1 |950 | | |/factory | | | | | Total | | | | |1 |950 | Right side | (+) | Unit price| Unit’s nature |Tangible units| $ |cent | |Weight | – |650 |Unstuffy candy |3 | | |Total |3 | 07-08 Sherak tehena The units of this account are measured by weight as there is a strong correlation between the material and its measurement. This account includes 3 tangible added units measured by weight (kilogram) ,their nature is tehena and specified as sherak tehena . Their sum represents the number of units 3 x unit price .700 cents = $ 2.100 with the (+) sign. These units are sent from the factory to the exhibition as indicated in equation 2/24 at 17/2/1988. The final balance of this account represents 3 units added by weight with sum of $ 2.100 with the (+) sign. Page no.07-08 Sub-major acc. name: Sherak tehena Form #4 Left side Date |Equation|Description | (-) | (+) | |number | | | | | | |$ |cent|$ |cent| 17/2/88|2/24 |Sherak tehena | | |2 |100 | | |/ factory | | | | | Total | | | | |2 |100 | Right side | (+) | Unit price| Unit’s nature |Tangible units| $ |cent | |Weight | – |700 |Sherak tehena |3 | | |Total |3 | 07-09 Cocktail fruit This account made gross profit from selling 11 units measured by the kilogram to the commercial receivables. The conditions of making revenues and profits apply to this transaction .Unit’s cost represents .500 cents as indicated in account 06-36 equation 2/20 at 12/2/1988.Since the cost of each unit represents .500 cents and since 11 units were sold to the clients so gross profit of $5.500 resulted from this transaction as indicated in equation 2/29 at 23/11/1988 . Page no.07-09 Sub-major acc. name: Cocktail fruit Form #4 Left side | (-) | Date |Equation|Description | (-) | (+) |Tangible| |number | | | |units | | | |$ |cent|$ |cent|Weight | 17/2/88|2/24 |Cocktail fruit | | |3 |- | | | |/factory | | | | | | 19/2/88|2/26 |Cocktail fruit | | |11 |- | | | |/factory | | | | | | 23/2/88|2/29 |Commercial |11 |- | | |11 | | |receivables / | | | | | | | |Cocktail fruit | | | | | | Total | | |11 |- |14 |- |11 | Right side | (+) | Unit price| Unit’s nature |Tangible units| $ |cent | |Weight | 1 |- |Cocktail fruit |3 | 1 |- |Cocktail fruit |11 | 1 |- |Cocktail fruit | | | |Total |14 | 07-10 Cocket This material is one of the finished products sent from the factory to the exhibition so it is considered as a tangible unit added by weight in the exhibition and tangible unit outgoing from the factory. It is a tangible unit in both cases of addition and going out. Since the unit was not sent out of the organization it is considered as tangible whether in its outgoing or addition for the purpose of following it up from one stage to another. Some units might group together forming a finished product .In all these stages the units remain tangible. Theory of units indicates units included in the production and manufactured units which helps in drawing comparisons, control the waste of materials and obtain the best results which helps technicians, businessmen, management, shareholders and accountants as well. Page no.07-10 Sub-major acc. name: Cocket Form #4 Left side
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Sounds like Oracle and KPMG already have a rather good defense, the consumer was well informed.
… When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said.
… — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * * From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia, * * the Seventh worst state for business, * * Ayn Rand was right *
That should be preserved as a classic.
… 2. …. waste loves company
… — * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * * From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia, * * the Seventh worst state for business, * * Ayn Rand was right *
I am suprised. (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk. Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments?
It would appear not. The following is a copy / paste from the article. When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said. "Unfortunately these critical observations got lost in the jet-lagged confusion of the visit," it added. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am suprised. (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk. Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments? It would appear not. The following is a copy / paste from the article. When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said. "Unfortunately these critical observations got lost in the jet-lagged confusion of the visit," it added.
So, Cambridge knew or should have known what they were buying. Does the UK have a concept of proportional liability for these sorts of suits? If so, it sounds like KPMG and Oracle may get away with not having to pay much. Regards, Bill
So, Cambridge knew or should have known what they were buying. Does the UK have a concept of proportional liability for these sorts of suits? If so, it sounds like KPMG and Oracle may get away with not having to pay much.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the UK does have such a system. Hopefully one of our appropriately informed colleagues will weigh in with an answer. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am suprised. (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk. Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments? It would appear not. The following is a copy / paste from the article. When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said. "Unfortunately these critical observations got lost in the jet-lagged confusion of the visit," it added.
If, as yours truly frequently has, you have performed several IT audits and or financial controllership mandates in IT functions of large organisations (with deep pockets, at least for the time being), this news is not at all surprising. Value for money is in reality only a minor concern of such orgs, a lip service item. More important are: 1. organisational politics (you become more important by increasing your budget and control span, not the contrary); see "The Unix Guide to Defenestration" published in July 2001 2. big guys like big guys (= waste loves company) 3. prestige: "We can afford and have tailor made IT solutions." (even if we pay 90 % of the bill for 10 % of the functions) 4. keeping people busy 5. herd instinct (= "group think") In my experience the only large IT company which has consistently got good marks from its customers is Sun Microsystems. This has surprised me and, mind you, I own no SM stock and they are not (yet) our customers. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp. To Big Brother Echelon from "spook":
THE UNIVERSITY OF Cambridge in the United Kingdom is considering possible legal action against Oracle and KPMG Consulting for a faulty computer system that the university estimates it spent $13 million installing, with the aid of the two companies.
Is it possible that the system failed because the Univ of Cambridge had a computer system that was pasted together with spit and gum? When I attended a major university in the US the computer kept crashing because the university used a computer system that was donated to the university and an OS that was also donated. The result was a computer that crashed because the university didn’t spend a few bucks to buy a decent OS. What to do with Osama Bin Laden? Capture him, force him to undergo a sex change operation, and send him back to Afghanistan as a woman. I’m allergic to spam. Remove "No Spam" from my e-mail address to respond. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
I am suprised. (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk. Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cambridge may sue Oracle, KPMG for failed system By Laura Rohde November 9, 2001 10:02 am PT THE UNIVERSITY OF Cambridge in the United Kingdom is considering possible legal action against Oracle and KPMG Consulting for a faulty computer system that the university estimates it spent $13 million installing, with the aid of the two companies. According to two reports published by the University of Cambridge last week, it spent five years and more than twice as much money than it had budgeted on a computerized financial system, which it calls its CAPSA (commitment accounting software system) project, that still does not produce quarterly statements to the university’s satisfaction. And though the report primarily blames the university’s management for the problems with CAPSA, it also found fault with some of its outside vendors, including Oracle and KPMG. <snip The report itself states the situation somewhat more bluntly. "Oracle supplied a product which was of poor quality. In particular, the Research Grants module is only marginally fit for purpose. Such poor quality is a feature of the software industry as a whole; it is, however, little comfort that Oracle Financials is industry-standard sub-standard. <snip http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/11/09/011109hncambridge.x… — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA
– * Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. * * Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * * From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia, * * the Seventh worst state for business, * * Ayn Rand was right *
Cambridge may sue Oracle, KPMG for failed system By Laura Rohde November 9, 2001 10:02 am PT THE UNIVERSITY OF Cambridge in the United Kingdom is considering possible legal action against Oracle and KPMG Consulting for a faulty computer system that the university estimates it spent $13 million installing, with the aid of the two companies. According to two reports published by the University of Cambridge last week, it spent five years and more than twice as much money than it had budgeted on a computerized financial system, which it calls its CAPSA (commitment accounting software system) project, that still does not produce quarterly statements to the university’s satisfaction. And though the report primarily blames the university’s management for the problems with CAPSA, it also found fault with some of its outside vendors, including Oracle and KPMG. <snip The report itself states the situation somewhat more bluntly. "Oracle supplied a product which was of poor quality. In particular, the Research Grants module is only marginally fit for purpose. Such poor quality is a feature of the software industry as a whole; it is, however, little comfort that Oracle Financials is industry-standard sub-standard. <snip http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/11/09/011109hncambridge.x… — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA
Huh. The thumbnails loaded just fine on my computer. And it’s kinda old… Oh, it must be my cable internet connection. The site is fine – I liked the stars, even though my clunker computer didn’t. Maybe you need to get a better internet provider – or just a life. — Janice Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the slowest gazelle or it will starve. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a lion or a gazelle – when the sun comes up, you’d better be running.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – lissen up chubs, who the fuck asked you anyway? If you so hot on comPUtors why th efuck does your web site suck so bad? How come your thumbnails load like old people fuck? How come huh? Listen my little heffer only advice IO got for you is push your fat ass away from that comPUtor put down the fucking gummi bears and go buy a treadmill and get your fatass to work. Then we can talk ok baby? Tha Starmaker HA HA HA! I am sooo glad that you "chumps" *think* you know what you’re talking about! I happen to be an Internet Communications Bachelor of Science graduate, on my way to my Masters and all that rubble that you just spent time making up is pure bonafide garbage! It makes no sense, you threw a bunch of big computer words together hoping it would scare some people and the truth is, it’s all garbage. I hope you’re better at accounting than Computers, baby. By the way, I was filing tax returns as a second job when I was in HIGH SCHOOL and was still making $100 pop. I’m all for it starmie baby. Ok here’s the plan then. I am going to call my legions of attorneys and interpol because it llos to me like an international criminal conspiracy is trying to stop us from degrading assaulting and harassing men and women all over the net. We can’t have that. Who do these chumps think they are to dare to have the arrogance to tell ME what to do? hehehehehehe I have had enough and it’s time we hook into the hard drives of these maroons and trolls. I can rig a netserver XT900 to mirror the upload through the NNTP propagation scripting in deja. Then it’s a simple matter for you to in-line the code from blue box to encode IP’s and then shell through the original servers with a unix backdoor exploit. You following me starmie? hehehehehehe I gots ta tell ya good buddy this is cutting into my 1040a time. All the dumb working chumps here in Queens pay me 50 bucks a shot to spend 5 minutes filing their pathetic chump change short form returns online and I got to make hay while the sun shines and they need their refunds to have a good crack party. I cater that too. hehehehehehe So let’s get this show on the road and do these clown whickens we got em crappin in dere pantz! hehehehehe Carl *ka-ching* Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass — I don’t know my ass from my ass
No baby, don’t dooooo me that way. I am posting as Carl I loves ya baby needs ya gots to gots to have you baby cum cum cum for me now and I will penetrate yur soul through your backside like you have never dreamed cause yu know me baby I am a stud. Carl "I like to play with furniture" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that why you’re posting at ATW as "sighren"? [smirk] Hey baby I told you I don’t pork no porkers now shut the fuck up. Get over me already. Randy, Randy, Randy…you screwed up, yet again… If yer talking to me de Valet, I never ever ever run sock puppets. I am proud of my words and the making of blustering bozos like you into writhing whiner monkeys. You are the one who has screwed up over and over. I never lose my temper and slip while I have made you lose yours dozens of times and threaten violence and murder, rape and forced sexual domination. Is this how you kowtowed your former lovers before they summarily rejected you for real men? Yer Master The Mighty BirdTribe de Valois — * Clowns, by their very nature, are attracted to any number of absurd realities * Artworks, games, keys – visit http://www.birdtribe.net/ your.domain.com http://www.mosthost.net
– I am almost competent at form 1040a!
hahaha lmao Full O Shit! hahah Thats the lame’est one I ever saw, why don’t you just threaten to find out everyone’s aol sn and punt them! lmao hahahaha… hehe Don’t be talking about the powerful penquin too much, i don’t think you know how to make him do what ya want 
-moonenigma BTW! A+, Network+, MCP, MCSE+I, RHCE certified Kinda feels good to hold the knowledge Still studing the cicso cert ;]
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m all for it starmie baby. Ok here’s the plan then. I am going to call my legions of attorneys and interpol because it llos to me like an international criminal conspiracy is trying to stop us from degrading assaulting and harassing men and women all over the net. We can’t have that. Who do these chumps think they are to dare to have the arrogance to tell ME what to do? hehehehehehe I have had enough and it’s time we hook into the hard drives of these maroons and trolls. I can rig a netserver XT900 to mirror the upload through the NNTP propagation scripting in deja. Then it’s a simple matter for you to in-line the code from blue box to encode IP’s and then shell through the original servers with a unix backdoor exploit. You following me starmie? hehehehehehe I gots ta tell ya good buddy this is cutting into my 1040a time. All the dumb working chumps here in Queens pay me 50 bucks a shot to spend 5 minutes filing their pathetic chump change short form returns online and I got to make hay while the sun shines and they need their refunds to have a good crack party. I cater that too. hehehehehehe So let’s get this show on the road and do these clown whickens we got em crappin in dere pantz! hehehehehe Carl *ka-ching* Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
Hey baby I told you I don’t pork no porkers now shut the fuck up. Get over me already. Randy, Randy, Randy…you screwed up, yet again…
If yer talking to me de Valet, I never ever ever run sock puppets. I am proud of my words and the making of blustering bozos like you into writhing whiner monkeys. You are the one who has screwed up over and over. I never lose my temper and slip while I have made you lose yours dozens of times and threaten violence and murder, rape and forced sexual domination. Is this how you kowtowed your former lovers before they summarily rejected you for real men? Yer Master The Mighty BirdTribe de Valois
– * Clowns, by their very nature, are attracted to any number of absurd realities * Artworks, games, keys – visit http://www.birdtribe.net/ your.domain.com http://www.mosthost.net
Hey baby I told you I don’t pork no porkers now shut the fuck up. Get over me already.
Randy, Randy, Randy…you screwed up, yet again… de Valois
Look baby you know it I know it everyone knows it but look baby you gotta believe me my big head ain’t gonna fit in your mouth and its gonna get lost in your fatass so we just ain’t gonna make it baby. What’s with all these chicks gettin after me I tell youse they ain;t no hope for em! Now if anna if you tell me you a satass Jewish chick then maybe I might think about shovin it in you baby you got it so whats it gonna be? Bat Me or the Highway? The Starmaker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get over you? I don’t think I could get past that big head of yours if I tried! Hey baby I told you I don’t pork no porkers now shut the fuck up. Get over me already. The Starmaker — I don’t know my ass from my ass That’s funny, I actually couldn’t tell your ass from your face…. 
Anna Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
– I don’t know my ass from my ass
lissen up chubs, who the fuck asked you anyway? If you so hot on comPUtors why th efuck does your web site suck so bad? How come your thumbnails load like old people fuck? How come huh? Listen my little heffer only advice IO got for you is push your fat ass away from that comPUtor put down the fucking gummi bears and go buy a treadmill and get your fatass to work. Then we can talk ok baby? Tha Starmaker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HA HA HA! I am sooo glad that you "chumps" *think* you know what you’re talking about! I happen to be an Internet Communications Bachelor of Science graduate, on my way to my Masters and all that rubble that you just spent time making up is pure bonafide garbage! It makes no sense, you threw a bunch of big computer words together hoping it would scare some people and the truth is, it’s all garbage. I hope you’re better at accounting than Computers, baby. By the way, I was filing tax returns as a second job when I was in HIGH SCHOOL and was still making $100 pop. I’m all for it starmie baby. Ok here’s the plan then. I am going to call my legions of attorneys and interpol because it llos to me like an international criminal conspiracy is trying to stop us from degrading assaulting and harassing men and women all over the net. We can’t have that. Who do these chumps think they are to dare to have the arrogance to tell ME what to do? hehehehehehe I have had enough and it’s time we hook into the hard drives of these maroons and trolls. I can rig a netserver XT900 to mirror the upload through the NNTP propagation scripting in deja. Then it’s a simple matter for you to in-line the code from blue box to encode IP’s and then shell through the original servers with a unix backdoor exploit. You following me starmie? hehehehehehe I gots ta tell ya good buddy this is cutting into my 1040a time. All the dumb working chumps here in Queens pay me 50 bucks a shot to spend 5 minutes filing their pathetic chump change short form returns online and I got to make hay while the sun shines and they need their refunds to have a good crack party. I cater that too. hehehehehehe So let’s get this show on the road and do these clown whickens we got em crappin in dere pantz! hehehehehe Carl *ka-ching* Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
– I don’t know my ass from my ass
Get over you? I don’t think I could get past that big head of yours if I tried!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey baby I told you I don’t pork no porkers now shut the fuck up. Get over me already. The Starmaker — I don’t know my ass from my ass That’s funny, I actually couldn’t tell your ass from your face…. Anna Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
Hey baby I told you I don’t pork no porkers now shut the fuck up. Get over me already. The Starmaker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — I don’t know my ass from my ass That’s funny, I actually couldn’t tell your ass from your face…. Anna Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy?
– I don’t know my ass from my ass
HA HA HA! I am sooo glad that you "chumps" *think* you know what you’re talking about! I happen to be an Internet Communications Bachelor of Science graduate, on my way to my Masters and all that rubble that you just spent time making up is pure bonafide garbage! It makes no sense, you threw a bunch of big computer words together hoping it would scare some people and the truth is, it’s all garbage. I hope you’re better at accounting than Computers, baby. By the way, I was filing tax returns as a second job when I was in HIGH SCHOOL and was still making $100 pop.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m all for it starmie baby. Ok here’s the plan then. I am going to call my legions of attorneys and interpol because it llos to me like an international criminal conspiracy is trying to stop us from degrading assaulting and harassing men and women all over the net. We can’t have that. Who do these chumps think they are to dare to have the arrogance to tell ME what to do? hehehehehehe I have had enough and it’s time we hook into the hard drives of these maroons and trolls. I can rig a netserver XT900 to mirror the upload through the NNTP propagation scripting in deja. Then it’s a simple matter for you to in-line the code from blue box to encode IP’s and then shell through the original servers with a unix backdoor exploit. You following me starmie? hehehehehehe I gots ta tell ya good buddy this is cutting into my 1040a time. All the dumb working chumps here in Queens pay me 50 bucks a shot to spend 5 minutes filing their pathetic chump change short form returns online and I got to make hay while the sun shines and they need their refunds to have a good crack party. I cater that too. hehehehehehe So let’s get this show on the road and do these clown whickens we got em crappin in dere pantz! hehehehehe Carl *ka-ching* Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
I’m all for it starmie baby. Ok here’s the plan then. I am going to call my legions of attorneys and interpol because it llos to me like an international criminal conspiracy is trying to stop us from degrading assaulting and harassing men and women all over the net. We can’t have that. Who do these chumps think they are to dare to have the arrogance to tell ME what to do? hehehehehehe I have had enough and it’s time we hook into the hard drives of these maroons and trolls. I can rig a netserver XT900 to mirror the upload through the NNTP propagation scripting in deja. Then it’s a simple matter for you to in-line the code from blue box to encode IP’s and then shell through the original servers with a unix backdoor exploit. You following me starmie? hehehehehehe I gots ta tell ya good buddy this is cutting into my 1040a time. All the dumb working chumps here in Queens pay me 50 bucks a shot to spend 5 minutes filing their pathetic chump change short form returns online and I got to make hay while the sun shines and they need their refunds to have a good crack party. I cater that too. hehehehehehe So let’s get this show on the road and do these clown whickens we got em crappin in dere pantz! hehehehehe Carl *ka-ching* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
gee that’s so convincing.. — "life is a creation, not a discovery"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
— I don’t know my ass from my ass
That’s funny, I actually couldn’t tell your ass from your face…. Anna
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy?
Carl baby, you know we don’t have to put up with all dis crap and dissin’ Let’s hook up the bluebox and crossfeed back through NNTP block the ports and re-string the I/0’s and initialize looping back through the backbone until these wads systems tell us who they are and we can give all the whatfor to your Poleece frens. Then we can have our playground back to ourselves and stalk and harass wymmins until we can’t cum no more. Deal buddy? — I don’t know my ass from my ass
Can a labor party include men? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there a problem with our parochialism. When you are the #1 country in the world, you should be proud of it. For god sakes, you guys still have a Labour party Parochialism, or ethnocentrism? This little debate could get interesting Dr Peter French Melbourne Australia
– Frederick E. Jorden http://fejcpapc.com/ Frederick E. Jorden, CPA PC (804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211
Is there a problem with our parochialism. When you are the #1 country in the world, you should be proud of it. For god sakes, you guys still have a Labour party
Parochialism, or ethnocentrism? This little debate could get interesting Dr Peter French Melbourne Australia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet again the parochialism of americans shines brightly! I work for the UK arm of one of the big five and I can tell you that the criteria for classification of the big five is worldwide fee income, not american fee income. I have hardly heard of HR block! The big five firms have a presence in virtually every modernised country in the world, not just as LLPs in the states! I would note, though, that "multidisciplinary practice" (to borrow a term from the legal profession) is being more and more important internationally. So the very nature of the Big 5, however you look at them, is changing before our eyes. As I’ve noted, if you look at their international pages, you’ll find that they’ve for the most part dropped any reference to being accounting firms.
Yes they are changing, and not necessarily for the better. These guys appear to be regulated only by tort law, if they are regulated at all. The notion that international firms of this size and scope can be regulated by state boards of accountancy is absurd. It is time our state boards of accountancy faced this reality and handed the task off to a larger unit of government, and I don’t necessarily mean the US Federal Government. Given the size and scope of these operations, it is highly probable that the only effective way to regulate them is with an international regulatory scheme. Jim Hudspeth, CPA Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
I don’t care how many accounting firms they buy, H&R Block is not one of the big boys because they are not a registered CPA firm. It is the Big Five.
But, they compete in much of the same marketplace – so they can hardly be ignored. Truth is, as a tax practitioner, I probably have a lot more in common with HRB and AMEX than I do with the Big 5. MTW -Michael T. Wing, CPA (WA) http://www.versatax.com/
Yet again the parochialism of americans shines brightly! I work for the UK arm of one of the big five and I can tell you that the criteria for classification of the big five is worldwide fee income, not american fee income. I have hardly heard of HR block! The big five firms have a presence in virtually every modernised country in the world, not just as LLPs in the states!
I would note, though, that "multidisciplinary practice" (to borrow a term from the legal profession) is being more and more important internationally. So the very nature of the Big 5, however you look at them, is changing before our eyes. As I’ve noted, if you look at their international pages, you’ll find that they’ve for the most part dropped any reference to being accounting firms.
Yet again the parochialism of americans shines brightly! I work for the UK arm of one of the big five and I can tell you that the criteria for classification of the big five is worldwide fee income, not american fee income. I have hardly heard of HR block! The big five firms have a presence in virtually every modernised country in the world, not just as LLPs in the states! Jonathon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t care how many accounting firms they buy, H&R Block is not one of the big boys because they are not a registered CPA firm. It is the Big Five. As long as your workforce is mostly housewives doing 1040EZ’s, you are small-time, no matter how many dollars you bring in. Is KPMG a public accounting firm? Yes, they are a public accounting firm, even though they’ve now apparently dropped the Peat Marwick label <grin. See http://www.us.kpmg.com/assurance/ for information on their assurance products (which now appears to include auditing).
Is there a problem with our parochialism. When you are the #1 country in the world, you should be proud of it. For god sakes, you guys still have a Labour party! Tsk.Tsk.Tsk.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet again the parochialism of americans shines brightly! I work for the UK arm of one of the big five and I can tell you that the criteria for classification of the big five is worldwide fee income, not american fee income. I have hardly heard of HR block! The big five firms have a presence in virtually every modernised country in the world, not just as LLPs in the states! Jonathon I don’t care how many accounting firms they buy, H&R Block is not one of the big boys because they are not a registered CPA firm. It is the Big Five. As long as your workforce is mostly housewives doing 1040EZ’s, you are small-time, no matter how many dollars you bring in. Is KPMG a public accounting firm? Yes, they are a public accounting firm, even though they’ve now apparently dropped the Peat Marwick label <grin. See http://www.us.kpmg.com/assurance/ for information on their assurance products (which now appears to include auditing).
I don’t care how many accounting firms they buy, H&R Block is not one of the big boys because they are not a registered CPA firm. It is the Big Five.
Of course, if you talk to the attorneys, the other big question is how many law firms will the Big 5 buy and when do they become law firms <grin. As Jim notes, most of the "Big 5" no longer tends to refer to themselves as accounting firms anyway. Only American Express and HRB seem to want that title…
PriceSellsYoungTouche.
OOOHHHAAA!!! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Is KPMG a public accounting firm?
Yes, they are a public accounting firm, even though they’ve now apparently dropped the Peat Marwick label <grin. See http://www.us.kpmg.com/assurance/ for information on their assurance products (which now appears to include auditing).
I don’t care how many accounting firms they buy, H&R Block is not one of the big boys because they are not a registered CPA firm. It is the Big Five. As long as your workforce is mostly housewives doing 1040EZ’s, you are small-time, no matter how many dollars you bring in.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is KPMG a public accounting firm? Yes, they are a public accounting firm, even though they’ve now apparently dropped the Peat Marwick label <grin. See http://www.us.kpmg.com/assurance/ for information on their assurance products (which now appears to include auditing).
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is KPMG a public accounting firm?
A very good question! None of the "Big 5" are now holding themselves out as "accounting firms". They do, however, do most of the audits of publicly held enterprises. Jim Hudspeth, CPA Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Just out of interest – if the Australian members of the Big 6 saw H&R an Accounting firm? What criteria do you apply to be regarded as an Accounting Firm? Are they CPA’s?
An H & R Block subsidiary just entered into an agreement to acquire the "non-attest" services of McGladrey Pullen, which was one of the largest CPA firms in the US outside of the Big 5. If this agreement is like most the consolidators have entered into, it does mean everything except the very specific attest engagements and even for those the remaining shell CPA firm would lease employees from HRB to actually perform the audits, reviews and compilations. To the client it will look awfully close to being one organization that can offer all of the services a traditional CPA firm can. So, based on the duck standard (if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck it’s a duck), HRB would appear now to at least have a CPA firm subsidiary.
Is KPMG a public accounting firm? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here they are in order, by revenue:1. Andersen Worldwide2. PricewaterhouseCoopers3. Ernst & Young4. Deloitte & Touche5. KPMG6. H&R Block They were the same big six from last year and in the same order. I hope this helps. me the names of the six largest public accounting firms? I need the info for an accounting course. Thank you. -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?b ****- Real Discussions for Real People
– Frederick E. Jorden http://fejcpapc.com/ Frederick E. Jorden, CPA PC (804) 320-6210 FAX (804) 320-6211
Here they are in order, by revenue: 1. Andersen Worldwide 2. PricewaterhouseCoopers 3. Ernst & Young 4. Deloitte & Touche 5. KPMG 6. H&R Block Dr Peter French Melbourne, Australia
P J French inquired… << Just out of interest – if the Australian members of the Big 6 saw H&R Accounting firm? What criteria do you apply to be regarded as an Accounting Firm? Are they CPA’s? Some employees may well be CPAs. They are known in the U.S. primarily as a tax preparation service, and are not usually grouped with the firms that audit the financial statements of large corporations, which is my understanding of what typically qualifies a firm as a Big "X" firm. The large accounting firms are often evaluated on the size and/or prestige of their client base, not revenues alone. Sometimes you might hear the term "tier" as opposed to "big__"; i.e. a firm is first tier or second tier et cetera based on whom their clients are.
As I know there are: PriceWaterHouseCooper KPMG Ernst & Young Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone tell me the names of the six largest public accounting firms? I need the info for an accounting course. Thank you. -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?b ****- Real Discussions for Real People
Here they are in order, by revenue: 1. Andersen Worldwide 2. PricewaterhouseCoopers 3. Ernst & Young 4. Deloitte & Touche 5. KPMG 6. H&R Block They were the same big six from last year and in the same order. I hope this helps. Could someone tell me the names of the six largest public accounting firms? I need the info for an accounting course. Thank you. -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?b ****- Real Discussions for Real People
Rosanne Findon … Could someone tell me the names of the six largest public accounting firms? I need the info for an accounting course. Thank you.
Eight, then there were six, then there were going to be four, but anti-trust concerns were raised, now there are five. Soon to be one… PriceSellsYoungTouche.
There is little doubt that H&R Block is considered an Accounting Firm. They offer year round service to all different types of businesses. H&R employs the most amount of people out of any Accounting Firm, 75,800, but of those only 425 are professionals (CPAs) The other top five have 14,000+ CPAs. That means, I guess, that most of their revenue does come during the crunch tax time with many many many non CPAs doing peoples taxes under the H&R umbrella and then they are gone until the next year. I was surprised to find them ranked that high as well. Even more surprising is that American Express is ranked number 12. The next two to round out the Big 8 are, Century Business Services, and Grant Thornton. Here they are in order, by revenue: 1. Andersen Worldwide 2. PricewaterhouseCoopers 3. Ernst & Young 4. Deloitte & Touche 5. KPMG 6. H&R Block Dr Peter French Melbourne, Australia
Could someone tell me the names of the six largest public accounting firms?
I need the info for an accounting course. Thank you. -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?b ****- Real Discussions for Real People
PricewaterhouseCoopers KPMG Deloitte & Touche Tohmatsu Ernst & Young Arthur Andersen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I know there are: PriceWaterHouseCooper KPMG Ernst & Young Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Could someone tell me the names of the six largest public accounting firms? I need the info for an accounting course. Thank you. -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?b ****- Real Discussions for Real People
Dick, No need to speculate on my company based on my $200 dollar limit on accounting software. Peachtree Office Accounting and MYOB both had most of what I was looking for well under $200. Now that Peachtree Office Accounting has halted development which makes its future uncertain and since I’ve grown disenchanted with MYOB, I’m looking for alternatives. I don’t expect to find all the features I listed, but since Peachtree Office Accounting basically and MYOB combined did almost everything I listed, it seemed reasonable to ask if something else out there existed with a similar feature set. I guess I picked the wrong newsgroup to ask. Thanks anyhow. Brian
A business which can only afford a one-time investment of $200 in such a key component of their operations may have more problems than software alone can solve. Realistically, you could probably afford $200 a month, which is $2400 a year, which is $12K in a 5 year planning horizon. In a 10 person company, software could be expected to obviate the need to hire employee number 11. The Return On Investment is very high. Respectfully, - Carl Dick 949-261-2694 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now that Peachtree has apparently discontinued development of Peachtree Office Accounting, what other accounting packages out there are there in the under-$200 range that would be comparable in features (including payroll and inventory assembly), have a dazzling graphical interface, and have seamless integrations with Microsoft Office 2000? Surely there has to be some package out there that works great with MS Office and has been modernized to work well with Web-related commerce businesses as well as retail. I’ve given up on MYOB which I used for 8 years because they are caught in the stone age and apparently must have hired the owner’s teenage grandson to design the increasingly ugly interface. I’m looking for a ultra-modern package with all the basics and a good reputation that has HTML, email, and Office integration functionality. If it has the ability to integrate with the Outlook Contact List, I would be delighted. I’m tired of managing two lists between the two. Thanks ahead of time. Brian
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dream on! What you want is available, just not for under $200. Now that Peachtree has apparently discontinued development of Peachtree Office Accounting, what other accounting packages out there are there in the under-$200 range that would be comparable in features (including payroll and inventory assembly), have a dazzling graphical interface, and have seamless integrations with Microsoft Office 2000? Surely there has to be some package out there that works great with MS Office and has been modernized to work well with Web-related commerce businesses as well as retail. I’ve given up on MYOB which I used for 8 years because they are caught in the stone age and apparently must have hired the owner’s teenage grandson to design the increasingly ugly interface. I’m looking for a ultra-modern package with all the basics and a good reputation that has HTML, email, and Office integration functionality. If it has the ability to integrate with the Outlook Contact List, I would be delighted. I’m tired of managing two lists between the two. Thanks ahead of time. Brian
You will have to design it yourself, and it will wind up costing a lot more than $200! I would like to see that sort of capability myself. The only hope, as has been previously said, Peachtree can push the envelope on Btrieve for PAW. Intuit will continue to put out what it wants to in QuickBooks, and figure out how to wring a few more dollars out of it. Regards, Robert W. Scroggins, CPA A Texas CPA http://members.aol.com/rscrogg562/ —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
Brian; May I suggest that you join BWare Software’s Entrepreneurial Initiative. The Entrepreneurial Initiative gives new businesses the opportunity to "start up
Several weeks ago, the hot topic in this newsgroup was circumcision. Someone posted medical references from several decades ago that stated the main purpose of circumcision of infants was to prevent masturbation as the child grew. If anyone still has this would you please repost? Thanks.
Several weeks ago, the hot topic in this newsgroup was circumcision. Someone posted medical references from several decades ago that stated the main purpose of circumcision of infants was to prevent masturbation as the child grew. If anyone still has this would you please repost? Thanks.
You wouldnt know, Betty…but I can assure you that circumsision does not prevent masturbation. —— James E. Douglass ******
Several weeks ago, the hot topic in this newsgroup was circumcision. Someone posted medical references from several decades ago that stated the main purpose of circumcision of infants was to prevent masturbation as the child grew. If anyone still has this would you please repost? You wouldnt know, Betty…but I can assure you that circumsision does not prevent masturbation.
Does not prevent, but DOES make it less pleasurable, and often more difficult. Here’s an extract from an article published in the Montreal Gazette last September. It may help you understand why sex is less pleasureable after circumcision: "We really do tend to talk about the penis much more than we know about it," says Dr. John Taylor, a pathologist at the Manitoba Health Sciences Centre. Taylor set out to change that, and examined the foreskins of 22 deceased adult men in his morgue. His very elementary finding – that the inside of the prepuce contains highly specialized nerve endings, and that anatomically "the prepuce very much resembles the lip" – was considered newsworthy enough by the British Journal of Urology that it accepted Taylor’s foreskin study for publication. Taylor found the inside of the foreskin contains a band of ridged skin, the ridges holding a number of round nerve endings. Those round nerve endings rub up and down the penile shaft during intercourse, leading Taylor to postulate that the purpose of the foreskin is to encourage the ejaculatory reflex. The medical literature is totally silent on a related question: the relationship between sexual performance and circumcised state among middle-aged and older men. After circumcision, the skin of a male’s glans kerotinizes – thickens and toughens up. If a man’s sex drive declines as he gets older, does a thin-skinned glans allow him more sexual sensation than a thick-skinned one? This question, unfortunately, stands at the unstudied frontier of male sexuality.
: : My answer is: "Well, your parents could have had you circumsized : : before you turned two years old." : : : : How’d you like to be the parents of one of these patients? : : : : Rafael Luebbert, M.D. : While they’re shopping for different parents, they’d probably do well to look : for a more compassionate doctor as well. : Can we see some stats on this, doc? Uncircumsized males have twenty times the risk of urinary tract infections than circumsized males, and 3000 times the risk of penile cancer. Circumcision also prevents the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and decreases the risk of cervical cancer in females. While in fact, people in countries with excellent hygeine have low risks of penile cancer, like Scandanavia, places with moderate to poor hygeine have high incidences of penile cancer. The United States would be considered a country with barely moderate hygeine practices. In Africa, where uncircumsized males are the norm, and hygeine is poor, penile cancer is abundant; 20% of all male cancers in Africa are cancer of the penis. Penile cancer represents the ONLY neoplasm for which there exists a predictable and simple means of prophylaxis that SPARES the organ at risk. Rafael Luebbert
Hmm, how about removing all our teeth – then we won’t get toothache ?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : My answer is: "Well, your parents could have had you circumsized : : before you turned two years old." : : : : How’d you like to be the parents of one of these patients? : : : : Rafael Luebbert, M.D. : While they’re shopping for different parents, they’d probably do well to look : for a more compassionate doctor as well. : Can we see some stats on this, doc? Uncircumsized males have twenty times the risk of urinary tract infections than circumsized males, and 3000 times the risk of penile cancer. Circumcision also prevents the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and decreases the risk of cervical cancer in females. While in fact, people in countries with excellent hygeine have low risks of penile cancer, like Scandanavia, places with moderate to poor hygeine have high incidences of penile cancer. The United States would be considered a country with barely moderate hygeine practices. In Africa, where uncircumsized males are the norm, and hygeine is poor, penile cancer is abundant; 20% of all male cancers in Africa are cancer of the penis. Penile cancer represents the ONLY neoplasm for which there exists a predictable and simple means of prophylaxis that SPARES the organ at risk. Rafael Luebbert
Earily retraction of the foreskin can and does cause adhesions which can occlude part or all of the urethral opening probably accounting for most of the UTIs. Foreskin should not be forced back to be cleaned . Infantile erections will eventually stretch and loosen any natural adhesions allowing complete retraction of the foreskin. Bad advice by docs about early retraction and cleaning has cause a great deal of pain and illness. Sharon
Uncircumsized males have twenty times the risk of urinary tract infections than circumsized males, and 3000 times the risk of penile cancer. Circumcision also prevents the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and decreases the risk of cervical cancer in females. While in fact, people in countries with excellent hygeine have low risks of penile cancer, like Scandanavia, places with moderate to poor hygeine have high incidences of penile cancer. The United States would be considered a country with barely moderate hygeine practices. In Africa, where uncircumsized males are the norm, and hygeine is poor, penile cancer is abundant; 20% of all male cancers in Africa are cancer of the penis.
It would be useful to explain the difference between "excellent hygeine" and poor hygeine of the uncircumcised male here. Many parents who choose not to have their sons cicumcised might not know. This information is not easy to find. Don Nelson
: Uncircumsized males have twenty times the risk of urinary tract : infections than circumsized males, and 3000 times the risk of penile : cancer. Circumcision also prevents the spread of sexually : transmitted diseases and decreases the risk of cervical cancer in females. And if you believe that…. Do I read you right? "Prevents" the spread of std’s? How does it do that? You also failed to reference your "stats." They’re no good without it.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I am looking for information, articles, history, of circumcision; for an : article I am writing on the subject, with the theme that circumcision is : nothing less than a barbaric mutilation ritual. Anything you have would be : appreciated. Post here or send to RNKLEIN.aol.com. Thanks. As a physician and a urologist, I have seen quite a few men 20-30 years old with penile cancer (squamous cell carcinoma of the penis), the treatment which is complete removal of the penis. Invariably, they ask how they got it and how it could have been prevented. My answer is: "Well, your parents could have had you circumsized before you turned two years old." How’d you like to be the parents of one of these patients? Rafael Luebbert, M.D.
Well in my experiences, I have talked to people with cancers of the lungs, breasts, prostrate, skin, etc. I guess a well caring parent can have all of these things removed at birth. What a bizarre approach to medicine people are being taught today. Healing by removal. I think a better approach is to learn proper care and to have the knowledge to cure without the need for a knife. Regards, Rich
: My answer is: "Well, your parents could have had you circumsized : before you turned two years old." : : How’d you like to be the parents of one of these patients? : : Rafael Luebbert, M.D. While they’re shopping for different parents, they’d probably do well to look for a more compassionate doctor as well. Can we see some stats on this, doc?
I am looking for information, articles, history, of circumcision; for an article I am writing on the subject, with the theme that circumcision is nothing less than a barbaric mutilation ritual. Anything you have would be appreciated. Post here or send to RNKLEIN.aol.com. Thanks.
Sounds like a real balanced article… jon
I am looking for information, articles, history, of circumcision; for an article I am writing on the subject, with the theme that circumcision is nothing less than a barbaric mutilation ritual. Anything you have would be appreciated. Post here or send to RNKLEIN.aol.com. Thanks.
Hi. You may want to contact the National Organization of Circumcision Information Rsources Centers at 415-488-9883. They have a newletter which lists most books and nesletters relating to this topic. Regards, Rich
As a physician and a urologist, I have seen quite a few men 20-30 years old with penile cancer (squamous cell carcinoma of the penis), the treatment which is complete removal of the penis. Invariably, they ask how they got it and how it could have been prevented. My answer is: "Well, your parents could have had you circumsized before you turned two years old."
OR, if they chose not to worship at the feet of the Mighty Scalpel (as surgery, as such, is not medicine, but mechanics) my answer would be: "Well, your parents could have taught you the rudiments of personal hygiene before you turned two years old." The logic of "prevention by removal", while easy to understand, seems to indicate a lust for unnecessary cutting. Why not yank all second growth teeth as soon as they emerge? Hey, it would save a heck of a lot of trips to the dentist, plus all that time brushing.
: I am looking for information, articles, history, of circumcision; for an : article I am writing on the subject, with the theme that circumcision is : nothing less than a barbaric mutilation ritual. Anything you have would be : appreciated. Post here or send to RNKLEIN.aol.com. Thanks. As a physician and a urologist, I have seen quite a few men 20-30 years old with penile cancer (squamous cell carcinoma of the penis), the treatment which is complete removal of the penis. Invariably, they ask how they got it and how it could have been prevented. My answer is: "Well, your parents could have had you circumsized before you turned two years old." How’d you like to be the parents of one of these patients? Rafael Luebbert, M.D.
I am looking for information, articles, history, of circumcision; for an article I am writing on the subject, with the theme that circumcision is nothing less than a barbaric mutilation ritual. Anything you have would be appreciated. Post here or send to RNKLEIN.aol.com. Thanks.
I attended my first ‘Bris" (is that right?) and I passed out from the sight. It made me ill to watch this, and all I could think later is that a lot of barbaric things are done in the name of religion. Or health. Has anyone here seen a bris? The kid is given a pacifier dipped in Mogen David to suck on while the Mohel removes part of his penis! I thought to myself any man in the room would pass out from pain and fear if all he had was a few drops of wine… Heck, even if he had a whole glass people would scream barbarism and torture. It is sick sick sick. Duffy