Just finishing up OE in intermediate II. Quasi reorganization sounds very interesting. Of course my text omitted it in the new ed., but my instructor thought it important to learn. I am wondering if any of you have been involved with quasi reorganization? Janice
Just finishing up OE in intermediate II. Quasi reorganization sounds very interesting. Of course my text omitted it in the new ed., but my instructor thought it important to learn. I am wondering if any of you have been involved with quasi reorganization? Janice I’ve been involved with lots of reorganizations but none of them were described as "quasi"
The old text used the term quasi (from the Latin sort of) to describe the way in which the controller or new head accountant would bring a company’s negative RE to 0 by reassigning values to all or almost all assets and then using the contributed capital portion of the OE (in particular which ever APIC was appropriate). By the by, this is in very general terms. I am well aware of the fact that things are not this easy. 
) For a laugh, my instructor tells us that we never want to get mixed up with APIC because there is a room just for APIC, buckets and buckets of different types, and once you go in you’ll never come out clean because it sticks to you. Janice I’ve been involved with lots of reorganizations but none of them were described as "quasi"
Why are we posting in HTML to USENET? YES he is correct about APIC. My company has APIC from common stock sold or issued for services or whatnot, APIC from detachable warrants sold with mandatorily redeemable preferred stock, APIC from beneficial conversion option on a convertible note payable, etc, etc. To date we have not posted a profit so I don’t have to deal with the diluted EPS on all of these things (fortunately or unfortunately depending on your perspective). We just sold common stock + warrants and at this point I am unsure if we allocate the proceeds in part to the warrants issued in these transactions. I have looked in my accounting text and it discusses only the debt/preferred stock + warrants situation. The quasi-reorg, I dunno what to tell you. Maybe if you plugged the term into google you will see some financials of a company that has done it. Essentially it is a way to permit the co to pay dividends, as I understand it. The accumulated deficit wipes out. That is the point of the quasi-reorganization.
The old text used the term quasi (from the Latin sort of) to describe the way in which the controller or new head accountant would bring a company’s negative RE to 0 by reassigning values to all or almost all assets and then using the contributed capital portion of the OE (in particular which ever APIC was appropriate). By the by, this is in very general terms. I am well aware of the fact that things are not this easy. ) For a laugh, my instructor tells us that we never want to get mixed up with APIC because there is a room just for APIC, buckets and buckets of different types, and once you go in you’ll never come out clean because it sticks to you. Janice
I’ve been involved with lots of reorganizations but none of them were described as "quasi"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are we posting in HTML to USENET? //snipped// O/T Are you speaking French or do you have a frog on your keyboard? <grin Because they can. If you use HTML enabled browsers, you see the HTML a lot. If you use them in text mode, no HTML. I use Agent from Fortec for mail and newsgroups…I worry less about viruses and have no worries about HTML.
Yes, the age-old response – "get a real newsreader!" I have heard that one before. Maybe someday.
Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry. The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k. balances, life’s good. but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account? Please help. cheers, Scot B
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry. The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k. balances, life’s good. but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account? Please help. cheers,
did you actually build something for a customer? If that’s the case the first entry would be debiting the checking account and crediting a revenue account. Is the contstruction loan a "draw down" line of credit? Do you have an accountant for your company? — because it sounds like you desperately need a real (not cyber) accountant.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry. The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k. balances, life’s good. but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account?
Your narration does not make much sense… you say "a construction company" and "our construction loan" so we should assume you are NOT the construction company? If that is the case then why would you be crediting income and putting money into a checking account? If you are the construction company, why is it your construction loan? Unless you are a construction company working on your own project? Is that the case, you did some work yourself and got paid by the title company? And exactly what does "your title company account" mean? Are the proceeds of your construction loan in the possession of a title company and shown as an asset on your books? Then you would not debit and credit it to "zero it out".. you would only credit it to decrease it by the amount of the disbursement. Which MAY answer your question… you should credit the balance of the loan proceeds that the title company controls (decreasing the available balance) and debit the checking account for the check you received.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, I am having a hard time accounting for what should be a simple acctg item. Must not have paid enough attention in my old management accounting classes! Here’s the scoop: a construction company generates income of 10,000 for carpentry. The check comes from a title company, which got the money from our construction loan. As I see it, our income account gets credited 10k, our title company account gets both debited and credited 10k, zeroing out, and our construction loan gets debited 10k. balances, life’s good. but, how to get the money into checking account, without debiting the income account? Please help. cheers, Scot B
I could be wrong, but anytime I hear "loan from…" I think of A/P or N/P depending on the conditions of the loan. If this indeed a true loan in which the construction company pays interest on this loan then the correct application would be Cash (company chkg acct) $10k Notes Payable $10k Like I said, I could be wrong. Your information is a little confusing.
No matter how much you fix up an old plane, it remains old. It flies old, smells old, and breaks down a lot. It is generally much cheaper to buy a new airplane rather than to try to upgrade an old airplane with new avionics, paint, interior, etc.
Really? I’d imagine that it would have more to do with the age of the engine than the age of the airframe. The newer 172R at the Ottawa Flying Club seems to spend as much time in the maintenance hangar as the older 172M’s and 172P’s. All the best, David —
All nice and clean and undamaged. Everything works and you get a 2-year (typ.) warranty which eliminates the major operating cost risk of a used plane
My new Cirrus went to the service center over 20 times in the first year. The service center is a 2 hour round trip flight. The warranty is 2 years, but does not include parts provided by suppliers. Things like the engine, avionics, tires, etc.
You know, new is nice and if you have the will and means to buy new, it’s a good thing for all the reasons listed by others here. There are reasons why you might want to buy a simple Cessna or Piper over a modern fixed gear single Cirrus, Katana, or whatever. I bought an almost new Maule but did so because it was relatively cheap, it drags it tail, and I live on a grass/mud strip. Otherwise I would have bought a C180 that was as old as I am for about the same money. If you have to watch your dollars or are otherwise interested in making a sound financial choice, used is the place to get transportation value. Choice, value, and options abound here. If you love aircraft of a certain type and vintage, or want to socialize with certain groups, used is where it is at by definition. And a lot of the best stuff around just isn’t available new. If you love hot machines and the prestige of a new ship, new/new is the place to get it. Some of those plane have teething problems but they are HOT (I don’t mean too hot for you to fly). High tech hedonism at its best. What could be better? And to go full circle, if like suspenders with your belt, don’t particularly care to be hot, and prefer dealing with the known, buy new/old (i.e Cessna, Piper). You already know how to fly it, you can move anonymously from FBO to ramp to distant city and back and never be noticed. Nothing wrong with that. Just some thoughts.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a student pilot, getting close to getting my Private Pilot license. Being trained on a C-172, I consider purchasing a similar plane (i.e. a simple 4-seater single). Why should I not buy a new one (assuming I can afford it)? If the depreciation story is so obvious, who are those people buying new ’simple’ aircraft? Analogy with cars doesn’t work, as cars do change (and sometimes improve) year-to-year, which doesn’t seem to be the case with planes. I will appreciate experienced owners who decided to buy new sharing their rationalization of such purchase. Regards, M.
It is generally much cheaper to buy a new airplane rather than to try to upgrade an old airplane with new avionics, paint, interior, etc.
No, way. Not even close. Take a run out mid 60’s 182 for example. Purchase price about $40K. New 182 is about $290K. New engine, prop, engine mount and accesories will set you back, worst case, $35K. Figure new leather interior at $5K, altough I put in my leather for a lot less. Paint and any needed body work and new fairings at $10K. OK I have spent $90K so far and all I need is a panel. What does your dream panel cost? Spend $50K on the panel and you’re at $140K. Now I’ll add the big engine that you can’t, that’s an extra $5K. Figure whatever you want to fix other minor stuff that old airplanes wear out. Insurance will be 1/2 – 1/3 of the new plane.
| | | Airplanes depreciate about 10% a year for the first three years, then begin | to slowly appreciate in value. (Except, of course, for airplanes with | relatively short useful lives, such as the Cirrus SR22 — these will | depreciate and never recover; their value will eventually depreciate to 0.) | | Why is the SR22 different in this regard? Why does it have a relatively | short useful life? The SR22’s airframe is limited by its type certificate to 4,350 hours. After that it becomes a lawn ornament.
The SR22’s airframe is limited by its type certificate to 4,350 hours. After that it becomes a lawn ornament.
Have any of them hit that yet? IIRC, the flight schools put about 1,000 hours a year on my old Cessna when it was new. George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.
Things like the engine, avionics, tires, etc.
All of which are warranteed by their manufacturers. Lycoming, for example, has a full 1 year warrantee and prorated second year. George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.
The SR22’s airframe is limited by its type certificate to 4,350 hours. After that it becomes a lawn ornament. Have any of them hit that yet? IIRC, the flight schools put about 1,000 hours a year on my old Cessna when it was new.
I doubt anybody’s close (if nothing else, an SR22 at a flight school probably wouldn’t be used that much due to insurance issues; at this point most underwriters are looking for 500 hours TT and an instrument rating for privately operated 22s.) Given that the oldest 22 is a bit more than two years old, there’s still time before this becomes an issue. The airframe lifetime for the SR22 was generated based on some formula applied to the SR20 lifetime (which I think is 12,000 hours) in order to speed along the original certification process. Cirrus will do whatever testing is necessary to come up with an independent airframe lifetime (which ought not to be much different than the SR20) prior to this being an issue for anyone.
Things like the engine, avionics, tires, etc. All of which are warranteed by their manufacturers. Lycoming, for example, has a full 1 year warrantee and prorated second year.
TCM doesn’t go beyond 1 year, nor do Garmin, Sandel, Arnav, and the various other manufacturers used by Cirrus. Even when the parts are replaced (some people have gone through 7 vacuum pumps, 4 HSIs, and quite a few flap relays) the warranty is not extended. So the bad design, which is probably causing these repetitive failures, becomes the owners problem after 1 year.
("Peter" wrote) If you rent the aircraft, you have to do 100 hour inspections This and other specific advice here is likely to be applicable only in the USA – so those elsewhere on the Earth’s surface, beware!
You’re right Peter. We sometimes get a little too focused on the FAA and USA flying here in rec.aviation. So, what exactly is the metric conversion for 100 hours? <g — Montblack
No matter how much you fix up an old plane, it remains old. It flies old, smells old, and breaks down a lot.
Unless you do one of the jobs that AOPA does with their prize aircraft. It is generally much cheaper to buy a new airplane rather than to try to upgrade an old airplane with new avionics, paint, interior, etc.
And if you look at the retail value of all the stuff AOPA does to one of those prizes, you’ll find that this is true. George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.
Airplanes depreciate about 10% a year for the first three years, then begin to slowly appreciate in value. (Except, of course, for airplanes with relatively short useful lives, such as the Cirrus SR22 — these will depreciate and never recover; their value will eventually depreciate to 0.)
Why is the SR22 different in this regard? Why does it have a relatively short useful life?
Now, if you have a good business justification for having an airplane (good by IRS standards, not by common sense), then you can likely get Uncle Sam to pay for one third to one fourth of whatever plane you buy over the next five years (through depreciation). The trick is that with a new plane, the schedule is front loaded. You need to talk to an expert, but there are ways to help justify the extra expense of new.
Add in the guaranteed trade in values that some of the manufactures are offering you could roll through a couple of plane in the next 4 or 5 years. Of course talk to your legal and accounting people to make sure it’s good for you. Another good part to having your business is you don’t have anyone telling you that you can’t fly your own plane for business purposes.
I think after 4,700 (approx. – guessing) hours it is no longer considered FAA airworthy because of the airframe life of the composites. You keep hearing that it is only a paperwork issue for Cirrus to overcome, and that it will go up to something like 12,000 hrs pretty soon – but it hasn’t happened yet. I still think it’s odd that a hangar’d SR-22 has the same (UV rays) 4,700 hrs airframe limit as another SR-22 sitting out on the ramp (IN THE SUN) for ten years. The smaller Cirrus plane, the SR- 20, doesn’t have the short useful life problem that its big brother/sister has. Hope they get this "paperwork(?)" issue resolved before they go diesel. <g Montblack ("xyzzy" wrote) Airplanes depreciate about 10% a year for the first three years, then begin to slowly appreciate in value. (Except, of course, for airplanes with relatively short useful lives, such as the Cirrus SR22 — these will depreciate and never recover; their value will eventually depreciate to
0.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is the SR22 different in this regard? Why does it have a relatively short useful life?
I am a student pilot, getting close to getting my Private Pilot license. Being trained on a C-172, I consider purchasing a similar plane (i.e. a simple 4-seater single). Why should I not buy a new one (assuming I can afford it)? If the depreciation story is so obvious, who are those people buying new ’simple’ aircraft? Analogy with cars doesn’t work, as cars do change (and sometimes improve) year-to-year, which doesn’t seem to be the case with planes. I will appreciate experienced owners who decided to buy new sharing their rationalization of such purchase. Regards, M.
Misha, I bought new because the design I wanted was not available used (Diamond Star). Had I been interested in a Cessna, I would have had a hard time justifying a new plane. As it is, I bought new, and since I am willing to share it with a few select friends (renters), it isn’t much more expensive than if I had bought a used plane and not shared it. Since you can have a 20 year old plane brought up to new standards, customized for your taste in paint, interior and avionics, it would seem that unless the new plane has something about it you desire a lot you should go with used. Especially in your case. Assuming you can afford it, if you buy a new simple four seater, you will find that you want to trade up in a few years to something that you can’t quite afford! (believe me). Now, if you have a good business justification for having an airplane (good by IRS standards, not by common sense), then you can likely get Uncle Sam to pay for one third to one fourth of whatever plane you buy over the next five years (through depreciation). The trick is that with a new plane, the schedule is front loaded. You need to talk to an expert, but there are ways to help justify the extra expense of new. Lastly, some folks want a new plane, and can afford it (God Bless’em). New planes have warranties and usually less problems with maintenance. Some folks will put up cash to have this convenience. Good Luck, Eric PS don’t get discouraged by all the folks that say you should fly longer before buying. Its good advice, but its not a law. I love my plane, and am glad I didn’t wait.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a student pilot, getting close to getting my Private Pilot license. Being trained on a C-172, I consider purchasing a similar plane (i.e. a simple 4-seater single). Why should I not buy a new one (assuming I can afford it)? If the depreciation story is so obvious, who are those people buying new ’simple’ aircraft? Analogy with cars doesn’t work, as cars do change (and sometimes improve) year-to-year, which doesn’t seem to be the case with planes. I will appreciate experienced owners who decided to buy new sharing their rationalization of such purchase. Regards, M.
I will appreciate experienced owners who decided to buy new sharing their rationalization of such purchase.
Back in 1995, Maule was in trouble, so they cut the price on certain planes down to about 60% of normal retail. About that time, my 26 year old Cessna 150 hung a valve at ~800′ AGL when I was taking off to take my fiance on a sightseeing run up the Hudson River exclusion. At night. I called Maule the next day and said "build me a plane". I like flying behind new engines. George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.
I am a student pilot, getting close to getting my Private Pilot license. Being trained on a C-172, I consider purchasing a similar plane (i.e. a simple 4-seater single). Why should I not buy a new one (assuming I can afford it)? If the depreciation story is so obvious, who are those people buying new ’simple’ aircraft? Analogy with cars doesn’t work, as cars do change (and sometimes improve) year-to-year, which doesn’t seem to be the case with planes. I will appreciate experienced owners who decided to buy new sharing their rationalization of such purchase. Regards, M.
Individuals (as opposed to companies, which is totally different) buy new versus used for the same reasons no matter what the big ticket item is. It’s bright, it’s shiny, smells new, and it doesn’t have the smells and stains of other people. It’s the latest and greatest. It has a warrenty and if anything is wrong you can go back and raise hell with the dealer instead of having to fix it yourself. You have made it, can do it, and by God, everyone should be aware of that fact. The feeling that it should be a while before anything breaks, and if anything does, you know about it as opposed to it being a hidden "feature" the seller doesn’t tell you about. As for the reality of any of this, airplanes are in a unique position because of the maintenance and logging requirements; there’s a vast difference between buying a 30 year old airplane and a 30 year old house or car just because of it. Bottom line; if the purchase has no business ramifications you are essentially buying a toy. Buy the best toy you can afford that floats your boat whether it’s a brand new 172 or a 1935 Waco as long as it’s something you can fly (I wouldn’t suggest buying a P-51, for example). Remember, he who dies with the most and best toys wins. — Jim Pennino (Toys, must have more toys)
The feeling that it should be a while before anything breaks, and if anything does, you know about it as opposed to it being a hidden "feature" the seller doesn’t tell you about.
After 1 year my new SR20 needs a second airplane logbook, the original was complete filled.
| I am a student pilot, getting close to getting my Private Pilot license. | Being trained on a C-172, I consider purchasing a similar plane (i.e. | a simple 4-seater single). Why should I not buy a new one (assuming I | can afford it)? If the depreciation story is so obvious, who are those | people buying new ’simple’ aircraft? Analogy with cars doesn’t work, as | cars do change (and sometimes improve) year-to-year, which doesn’t seem | to be the case with planes. | Actually, airplanes change more from year to year than cars do. The avionics alone have changed significantly in the 172 since it was re-introduced in 1998. Airplanes depreciate about 10% a year for the first three years, then begin to slowly appreciate in value. (Except, of course, for airplanes with relatively short useful lives, such as the Cirrus SR22 — these will depreciate and never recover; their value will eventually depreciate to 0.) New airplanes have good warranties which can often offset the cost of maintenance on an older airplane. No matter how much you fix up an old plane, it remains old. It flies old, smells old, and breaks down a lot. It is generally much cheaper to buy a new airplane rather than to try to upgrade an old airplane with new avionics, paint, interior, etc.
share it with a few select friends (renters), it isn’t much more expensive than if I had bought a used plane and not shared it.
Erick, What kind of arrangement do you have with your select friends (these renters)? How does it work with Insurance and charging them rental fees? Thanks, Ryan N8096W
| share it with a few select friends (renters), it isn’t much more expensive | than if I had bought a used plane and not shared it. | | Erick, What kind of arrangement do you have with your select friends (these | renters)? How does it work with Insurance and charging them rental fees? | If you rent the aircraft, you have to do 100 hour inspections (though these are not a great burden — you just build that into the rent, along with gas, engine overhaul, etc.) You do not absolutely have to have insurance. The most expensive part is hull value, and some people just go uninsured; they carry only liability insurance. In fact, this is becoming more common. You can also usually get specific individuals covered on your insurance, or you can insist that they provide their own renter’s insurance.
New airplanes have good warranties which can often offset the cost of maintenance on an older airplane. No matter how much you fix up an old plane, it remains old. It flies old, smells old, and breaks down a lot.
This has not been my experience. My C182P is 28 years old, and in the 3.5 years and 700+ hours I’ve flown it, it has never broken down once. I’ve yet to be stranded or have to cancel a flight for any mechanical reason. –Ron
I got on this 1995 Maule sales train a little later. I bought one 2 years and 35 hours later as the 3rd owner (the previous owners just bought and hangared due to the low price). I apparently paid exactly the factory advertised sale price but the plane had been upgraded with enough Nav and radio gear to be flown reasonably. There’s an alternative strategy here – buying a recently new/slightly used a/c might be a good option. You probably lose the warranty but you get an almost new ship with a big chunk of depreciation covered. You have to work hard to find the right deal instead of just sauntering up to the factory dealer, but you can save some bucks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will appreciate experienced owners who decided to buy new sharing their rationalization of such purchase. Back in 1995, Maule was in trouble, so they cut the price on certain planes down to about 60% of normal retail.
OK…I gotta pipe in here: : Actually, airplanes change more from year to year than cars do. The avionics : alone have changed significantly in the 172 since it was re-introduced in : 1998. This does not change the airplane… just the options included. The fact that it’s "ridiculously" expensive to upgrade them is not intrinsic to the value of the plane… it’s induced : New airplanes have good warranties which can often offset the cost of : maintenance on an older airplane. Buy a new airplane (C-172 at what, $200k?) and it’s warranty (*maybe* $5k worth of stuff done during the warranty)…. For that, I’d rather buy four used ones and throw them away when they break. :No matter how much you fix up an old : plane, it remains old. It flies ld, smells old, and breaks down a lot. The "new" airplanes most people are talking about (certified Cessnas and Pipers) are basically warmed-over versions of the original planes built close to 50 years ago. The only exceptions are the newer experimentals and kitplanes with composite constructions, liquid cooling, etc. :It is generally much cheaper to buy a new airplane rather than to try to : upgrade an old airplane with new avionics, paint, interior, etc. That seems like a slightl warped version of the aircraft purchasing rule of thumb that’s it’s cheaper to buy another more expensive *used* aircraft with the avionics you want than a cheaper used one that needs some new avionics. A new aircraft makes as much sense as a new car, financially… none. New car: $25k Used car: $5k (with $20k for "upgrades" and maintenance) New plane: $200k Used plane: $40k ($160k is a lot of upgrades and maintenance) Anway, enough ranting. If you’ve gotta have the "new plane smell," go for it…. I just wish I could afford it.. 
-Cory — * The prime directive of Linux: * * – learn what you don’t know, * * – teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) *
Writing down the value of the airplanes is only that – it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re dumping them. Apparently they are carrying them on their books at values which are higher than they actually are worth. I guess the feeling is that if they are already having a major loss this year, they might as well take the extra hit in the hope that it positions them better in the future.
Doesn’t the New York Stock Exchange de-list a company that has "n" successive losing quarters [years?] ? A strong incentive to lump everything into one bad year.
BTW, US’s MD80’s are the oldest ones flying – they were acquired with the PSA merger, and PSA was the launch customer for them, so these planes are probably pushing 20 years old.
Pushing from the other side ! The oldest dates from 1980, and most are of 1980-82 vintage except for a couple of follow-ons added in 1986. B.
BTW, US’s MD80’s are the oldest ones flying – they were acquired with the PSA merger, and PSA was the launch customer for them, so these planes are probably pushing 20 years old.
Yes and no. US’s MD-80s are AMONG the oldest ones flying, as PSA was not the launch customer–Swissair was. But, they were one of the first, and at least a half-dozen of the remaining US MD-80 fleet have already passed their 20th birthday. The four oldest were manufactured in 1980, with 11 more from 1981.
A news report about US Airways annoucing a big time loss says: "The carrier said Friday it would lose more than $160 million before items and that it expects to record a charge of $405 million to write down its fleet of Fokker 100, Boeing 737-200, and MD-80 aircraft and certain related assets." Now, what kinds of expenses are associated with the letting go of aircraft? What on earth is US going to be left with if it is ridding itself of the above quoted aircraft? Does it already have enough Airbusses to cover for these? I know it also leases out its old 732s to the likes of Canjet (C3)… so is it ridding itself of these(and essentially its leasing division?)?
"Writing down" assets is merely an accounting procedure and does NOT necessarily mean that the above aircraft types are going to be parked tomorrow. While US’s long-term fleet plan does call for all three types to be phased out, they will each be around for at least another couple of years. I would guess that the -200s and the MDs will go before the li’l Fokkers. As far as what specific costs are associated with this accounting procedure, well, hey, I’m no accountant! 
items and that it expects to record a charge of $405 million to write down its fleet of Fokker 100, Boeing 737-200, and MD-80 aircraft and certain related assets." Now, what kinds of expenses are associated with the letting go of aircraft?
Writing off doesn’t mean letting go. It just means that the airline no longer considers these to have any resale value if I understand correctly. But they can continue to use them, just like Air Canada continues to use its old DC-9s. It is more of a tax / profits technique. I suspect that they are doing this to cook their books as a result of the UA-merger thing.
A news report about US Airways annoucing a big time loss says: "The carrier said Friday it would lose more than $160 million before items and that it expects to record a charge of $405 million to write down its fleet of Fokker 100, Boeing 737-200, and MD-80 aircraft and certain related assets." Now, what kinds of expenses are associated with the letting go of aircraft? What on earth is US going to be left with if it is ridding itself of the above quoted aircraft? Does it already have enough Airbusses to cover for these? I know it also leases out its old 732s to the likes of Canjet (C3)… so is it ridding itself of these(and essentially its leasing division?)? — Amish Vancouver BC
A news report about US Airways annoucing a big time loss says: "The carrier said Friday it would lose more than $160 million before items and that it expects to record a charge of $405 million to write down its fleet of Fokker 100, Boeing 737-200, and MD-80 aircraft and certain related assets." Now, what kinds of expenses are associated with the letting go of aircraft? What on earth is US going to be left with if it is ridding itself of the above quoted aircraft? Does it already have enough Airbusses to cover for these? I know it also leases out its old 732s to the likes of Canjet (C3)… so is it ridding itself of these(and essentially its leasing division?)?
Part of the balance sheet is assets, included in which are the current values of their aircraft. AC recently invented money when they ‘extended’ the useful life of their A320 fleet, allowing them to spread scheduled depreciation over 25 years instead of 20. US is taking $405M of old airplanes out of their fleet. Matthew
A news report about US Airways annoucing a big time loss says: "The carrier said Friday it would lose more than $160 million before items and that it expects to record a charge of $405 million to write down its fleet of Fokker 100, Boeing 737-200, and MD-80 aircraft and certain related assets." Now, what kinds of expenses are associated with the letting go of aircraft?
Well, used planes aren’t worth as much as new ones. Or… If you end a lease early, there is a penalty. What on earth is US going to be left with if it is ridding itself of the above quoted aircraft? Does it already have enough Airbusses to cover for these?
Due to the economy, business travel is down. So, less ac are needed.
Writing down the value of the airplanes is only that – it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re dumping them. Apparently they are carrying them on their books at values which are higher than they actually are worth. I guess the feeling is that if they are already having a major loss this year, they might as well take the extra hit in the hope that it positions them better in the future. BTW, US’s MD80’s are the oldest ones flying – they were acquired with the PSA merger, and PSA was the launch customer for them, so these planes are probably pushing 20 years old. Jeff
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A news report about US Airways annoucing a big time loss says: "The carrier said Friday it would lose more than $160 million before items and that it expects to record a charge of $405 million to write down its fleet of Fokker 100, Boeing 737-200, and MD-80 aircraft and certain related assets." Now, what kinds of expenses are associated with the letting go of aircraft? What on earth is US going to be left with if it is ridding itself of the above quoted aircraft? Does it already have enough Airbusses to cover for these? I know it also leases out its old 732s to the likes of Canjet (C3)… so is it ridding itself of these(and essentially its leasing division?)? — Amish Vancouver BC
: I paid $11.99 and not only did I get the cd, but I also got a bonus cd : single. I hardly feel ripped off. US seems to have the lowest prices in cd’s if you compare the prices directly (at least with Europe). Mikael
Hi , I.m thinking that U2 is ripping the fans off with all those stupid releases in different formats.
Amen, brother.
Hi , I.m thinking that U2 is ripping the fans off with all those stupid releases in different formats.
Then don’t buy them. Or are you a sheep? Doug
I paid $11.99 and not only did I get the cd, but I also got a bonus cd single. I hardly feel ripped off. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi , I.m thinking that U2 is ripping the fans off with all those stupid releases in different formats. Limited editions in every country with sometimes just a different song. Two official cd-singles , why not put all on one ?? Space enough !! No we have to buy both of them !! Ticketprices in the US are crazy ($ 65 – $ 125), although I’m not completely sure if that’s true !! Anyway in my opinion they could do more for fans. I’m not saying they have to give us the music for free, but this is silly. They have money enough and they can easily dictate a normal recorddeal with the companys, so they are not ripping the fans off. Lets honor the fans who made them big and not squeeze them out.
Hi , I.m thinking that U2 is ripping the fans off with all those stupid releases in different formats. Limited editions in every country with sometimes just a different song. Two official cd-singles , why not put all on one ?? Space enough !! No we have to buy both of them !! Ticketprices in the US are crazy ($ 65 – $ 125), although I’m not completely sure if that’s true !! Anyway in my opinion they could do more for fans. I’m not saying they have to give us the music for free, but this is silly. They have money enough and they can easily dictate a normal recorddeal with the companys, so they are not ripping the fans off. Lets honor the fans who made them big and not squeeze them out.
No we have to buy both of them !!
No you don’t. No one is forcing you to collect — you can do what I did — buy the regular album ($9.69) and one of the BD singles ($4.99). P. — This message is brought to you by the letter U and the number 2.
All concerts are expensive now. I don’t care. I just want to see U2. I have no problem paying 65-125 american to attend, because this is a special moment in life that really means a lot. I live in Canada, so ticket prices may go even higher. The bottom line is that there are a lot of mechanisms behind the scenes that contribute to this business. If you don’t like the prices of all the singles, just buy the album and quit bitching. Some people like to collect all the different versions, and I am one of those people. By the time the accountants and bean counters are finished crunching numbers, the boys will be out on tour, doing what is most important to them, which is sharing their wonderful music with their legions of fans, for a fair price that is on par with other artists in their league. Remember this is U2. You don’t pay $15,000 American for a Cadillac, and you don’t pay $21.95 for a ticket to see U2. So if you don’t want to go, that’s one less wasted space at the concert……
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi , I.m thinking that U2 is ripping the fans off with all those stupid releases in different formats. Limited editions in every country with sometimes just a different song. Two official cd-singles , why not put all on one ?? Space enough !! No we have to buy both of them !! Ticketprices in the US are crazy ($ 65 – $ 125), although I’m not completely sure if that’s true !! Anyway in my opinion they could do more for fans. I’m not saying they have to give us the music for free, but this is silly. They have money enough and they can easily dictate a normal recorddeal with the companys, so they are not ripping the fans off. Lets honor the fans who made them big and not squeeze them out.
I would like to hire someone to set up Quickbooks Pro for me. How much will it cost?
<< I would like to hire someone to set up Quickbooks Pro for me. How much will it cost? Depending on the information you would like to get out of the program (reports), and the complexity of your business, it could range anywhere from a few $10’s to $1,000’s. The best thing is to talk with some QB professional advisors in your area and describe in more detail what you are looking for. Tom –Solving your tax and business problems with Professional Service…Personal Attention Web: http://members.aol.com/thealycpa/Tom_Healy_CPA.html
I am looking for that type of work. I would charge $9.00 an hour. I currently work with Quick books and set up people all the time. Where are you located? If you are interested or would like to speak to me further on this
craig.vcf
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wrote in alt.accounting: I would like to hire someone to set up Quickbooks Pro for me. How much will it cost?
A national accounting association says it should be $495. They charge accountants up to $30,000 to join. We may be unique in doing initial QB set up and review FREE. You do not even have to use us as your CPA. All we want is a chance to talk to you about how we teach the fastest and easiest way to manage your business and CUT YOUR TAXES. We were #1 Top Tester of the pre-release versions of QB 6 and 99. We specialized in QB for 8 years and provide many free QB answers on our web site and while co-moderating biz.comp.accounting. Many more answers are in our inexpensive book, which should be updated today. We can only visit Florida regularly, but have long helped clients in Texas, Ohio and California with email and remote control programs like PC Anywhere. We will soon use two-way video conferencing, with remote control of your computer, for remote seminars and support. We also do not charge review tax returns FREE. We limit our charges for making tax cutting changes to the LESSER of actual time charges or 1/3 of your tax savings. All this has helped us grow very fast. Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A. World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/ Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540
Roughly, when will Quickbooks 2000 be released ? Mike
There are several variables in computing the "Cost and Price" of a QuickBooks setup. The variables answer the questions : 1.0 Is complete documentation included? 2.0 Will the setup provide Compileable , Reviewable or Auditable Reports ? 3.0 Will the Setup be used by a Receptionist, Clerk, Accountant or Owner? 4.0 The Setup will be used Daily, Twice a week, Weekly or Only as needed ? 5.0 The ‘Principal’ will spend Half an Hour, Half a Day or Half a Week providing Setup data? 6.0 The current system which is being converted to QB provides Timely but wrong reports, Wrong reports or Late and Wrong reports Gary J Garrety
"Bill Bennett" <billbenn…@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > It’s been three weeks and >it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing).
Blocked nose? Are you using a humidifier? Or a heated humidifier? Tony —- Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed. Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or thousands of volunteers for special events.
I’ve managed to get a heated humidifier in the last week. It’s getting better, but I’m still losing pressure at night. It turns out the problem isn’t mouth breathing but the involuntary parting of my lips when the pressure builds up — it lets air out with a pop. I’ve tried taping my mouth with a Lukosilk (spelling?) tape, but the air still seeps out. Tony Toews <tto…@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:37b5629e.5138178@news.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Bill Bennett" <billbenn…@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > > It’s been three weeks and > >it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). > Blocked nose? Are you using a humidifier? Or a heated humidifier? > Tony > —- > Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed. > Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant > Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at > http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm > VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or > thousands of volunteers for special events.
Gary G <Higg…@netwiz.net> wrote in message
news:37A12145.1BB1AD7B@netwiz.net… > I came in late to this post but have you tried a chin strap?…GG
No…for two reasons. First, cpap freaks me a bit. It’s been three weeks and it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). I get claustrophobic with the mask, but can cope, the chin strap is just too much. Second, I’m learning that anything that makes cpap more complicated makes it more likely that I don’t bother. After all, it doesn’t do anything for me anyway. It’s hard enough being motivated to keep trying as it is.
Bill…I also had a hell of a time…You MUST fight the urge to give up…It’s a real love hate relationship at first…Once you experience the benefits it still is the pits…I would ponder in my mind all the options…After 6 months it all changed…Now it even helps me to sleep…I can’t explain what changes but something does…I wish other medical issues as serious could be remedied by what now is really a simple yet elegant solution…Don’t give up…Your life is at stake…GG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bill Bennett wrote: > Gary G <Higg…@netwiz.net> wrote in message > news:37A12145.1BB1AD7B@netwiz.net… > > I came in late to this post but have you tried a chin strap?…GG > No…for two reasons. First, cpap freaks me a bit. It’s been three weeks and > it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). I > get claustrophobic with the mask, but can cope, the chin strap is just too > much. > Second, I’m learning that anything that makes cpap more complicated makes it > more likely that I don’t bother. After all, it doesn’t do anything for me > anyway. It’s hard enough being motivated to keep trying as it is.
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:00:59 +1000, "Bill Bennett" <billbenn…@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > | > | Gary G <Higg…@netwiz.net> wrote in message > | news:37A12145.1BB1AD7B@netwiz.net… > | > I came in late to this post but have you tried a chin strap?…GG > | > > | > | No…for two reasons. First, cpap freaks me a bit. It’s been three weeks and > | it simply isn’t working (because of the blocked nose and mouth breathing). I > | get claustrophobic with the mask, but can cope, the chin strap is just too > | much. > | > | Second, I’m learning that anything that makes cpap more complicated makes it > | more likely that I don’t bother. After all, it doesn’t do anything for me > | anyway. It’s hard enough being motivated to keep trying as it is.
I don’t mind the CPAP at all, but the addition of the chin strap was just too much. I know what you mean! The chin strap really bothered me, especially the Veronique that was sort of like a seat belt for the head. > | > | > | > | > |
—————————————————- "Trudy is Beauth, Beauth, Trudy"
John, I have successfully used Microsoft Access to do this. However, you need to have some knowledge of the software and the time to set it up properly or pay someone else to do it. — Jason Hagerman Carroll Publishing Federal Charts and Directories 1058 Thomas Jefferson St, Washington DC, 20037 voice (202)333-8620 Fax: (202)337-7020 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for either a small business accounting package that has contact management functions built in, or some combo of accounting and contact management software. Customers will often repeat, and I’d like to automatically import invoice/product information into the contact management software. Any clues? I’ve looked at Act! And GoldMine, but they do not really seem to be setup to do this easily. Thanks for any help. -John Baima
I’m looking for either a small business accounting package that has contact management functions built in, or some combo of accounting and contact management software. Customers will often repeat, and I’d like to automatically import invoice/product information into the contact management software. Any clues? I’ve looked at Act! And GoldMine, but they do not really seem to be setup to do this easily. Thanks for any help. -John Baima
What a cool job, Cassandra!
Yes. Some of the older folk in here suspect that ushers and telemarketers and the customer service ppl will be judged useless in some Final Accounting. I guess its a holdover distaste for my father who was an actor and therefore was never considered an essential member of "the workforce." I am royaly jealous.
Bet you you make more money:) I also have a thousand questions: Do you get to watch the plays?
I’m only signed on for this one specific production. There is only one play. (see below) Yes I could watch it if I liked, standing in the back, but I will have to be alert to help people. Any specific genre?
(see below) How does all of your selfs like the plays?
We very much like this play. We feel ( coincidentally this is the same play we worked on 3 years ago ) that the *theatre company* does a surface hack performance of this play. For instance, the boy soloist in the first scene never has rehearsed beforehand to improve the voice. You know how in plays there will be interruptions where one character cuts off another? Well, frequently in this play, an actor speaks his lines, cuts off him or her self, and thereafter silently waits with a blank expression for the other actor to "interrupt" on cue. Also I disagree with almost all the line emphases:) (You already stated they all felt comfortable with the position
Yes. And its good because I was getting too afraid of strangers, you know, and what they think. This job is a good desensitiser for me to be working with crowds. -N- desparately wants to know if you get to go exploring behind stage and elsewhere?
No. Ushers are like bike messengers, if they are not outright treated as sc*m then they are treated as unwelcome outside their area. When my father did plays I used to explore the sets ( and be trailed by fussy defensive set directors ) and also just out of habit when I was in New York I explored the set of Cats until someone realised I shouldn’t be there:) Do they serve jello during intermissions?
No, but there is a *bar* downstairs in which the play is broadcast live on a tv and you can go down there and eat peanuts cookies etc and drink whatever you want to pay for:) Do you get to talk to any of the actors?
Last time I saw this production, there was an actor named Kelvin Yee who was playing a gh*st and did the most ~amazing~ stylised spooky job of it. He was the only commited actor in the cast. Almost at the end of the run I told him that, and I thanked him very much for doing such a wonderful job, and we got to chatting, and he explained that he was studying Butoh postures and that these are traditional gh*st postures ( believe me this worked because whenever he even stood up children were carried out in terror from the theatre ) and he was so touched that someone cared, that he refused to sign my program right away, but rather took it home to write a long note into. I wont really start at the theater till next week, havent even see the full pay yet. I used to usher for Man of La Mancha with Raul Julia, who sent word through management that if we seated people while he was doing a solo or speaking, that the usher doing the forbiden seating would be fired. The first bit of the play where he does not do a solo or speak is about 45 minutes into the program, and it was impossible to convince ppl who had paid 40$ that they should not go in for almost an hour, so we were under orders to *sneakily* seat people and not get caught. We were not allowed to use our flashlights as part of the sneaking process. This led to lots of quiet sneaky cries of "sorry" and "ow! my foot!" reverberating through Raul’s solos. One time an usher was sneaking ppl into the front row, during a Raul speech, and one woman was being mercilessly tromped on by the ppl filing to their seats, and the woman said " Can’t you turn on your flashlight??" and the usher replied " I cant, or Raul Julia will fire me." Which Mr.Julia heard clearly, being only three feet away. After that we were under orders not only to not seat ppl, to sneak ppl in, to not to use our flashlights in the total darkness, to not to get caught or be fired, but *also* not to say the phrase " I cant, or Raul Julia will fire me." My opinion of him went down quite a few notches after that. What are your coworkers like, do you like them? (That’s important most times.)
Nah, not so important with this job. Too busy with other ppl. Manager is impt, seems nice. Too Cool. We went to see A Chr*stm*s Carol this evening and we had front row center seats. We could have reached up and touched Ebeneezer and the smoke from the third sp*r*t enveloped our seats and I thought about you and your new job. Too Cool.
See, this is the bit I saved as your surprise, thats the play I’m working for:) One of my favorites! Someone posted recently that they liked Scrooge and I thought oh, me too:) -Luthe & Co.-
NOJ — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:
" I dont have a career. All I have is a list of things that I want to do." ~Neil Gaiman~
you know luthe i think maybe we saw the same play (if smoke is any indication)? if so, weeeeeird coincidence… my family goes to see that production every dang year, but i still like it. Bugs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a cool job, Cassandra! I am royaly jealous. I also have a thousand questions: Do you get to watch the plays? Any specific genre? How does all of your selfs like the plays? (You already stated they all felt comfortable with the position -N- desparately wants to know if you get to go exploring behind stage and elsewhere? Do they serve jello during intermissions? Do you get to talk to any of the actors? What are your coworkers like, do you like them? (That’s important most times.) Too Cool. We went to see A Chr*stm*s Carol this evening and we had front row center seats. We could have reached up and touched Ebeneezer and the smoke from the third sp*r*t enveloped our seats and I thought about you and your new job. Too Cool. -Luthe & Co.- — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:
What a cool job, Cassandra! I am royaly jealous. I also have a thousand questions: Do you get to watch the plays? Any specific genre? How does all of your selfs like the plays? (You already stated they all felt comfortable with the position -N- desparately wants to know if you get to go exploring behind stage and elsewhere? Do they serve jello during intermissions? Do you get to talk to any of the actors? What are your coworkers like, do you like them? (That’s important most times.) Too Cool. We went to see A Chr*stm*s Carol this evening and we had front row center seats. We could have reached up and touched Ebeneezer and the smoke from the third sp*r*t enveloped our seats and I thought about you and your new job. Too Cool. -Luthe & Co.- — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:
Re: Way Cool, Cassandra What a cool job, Cassandra! Yes. Some of the older folk in here suspect that ushers and telemarketers and the customer service ppl will be judged useless in some Final Accounting.
You better add DBAs to that list too I also have a thousand questions: How does all of your selfs like the plays? We very much like this play. We feel ( coincidentally this is the same play we worked on 3 years ago ) that the *theatre company* does a surface hack performance of this play. For instance, the boy soloist in the first scene never has rehearsed beforehand to improve the voice. You know how in plays there will be interruptions where one character cuts off another? Well, frequently in this play, an actor speaks his lines, cuts off him or her self, and thereafter silently waits with a blank expression for the other actor to "interrupt" on cue. Also I disagree with almost all the line emphases:)
Have you ever thought about being in the play (a play… you know.)? Sounds to me like you know what you are talking about. BTW, after having read your whole reply I can admit that *We* all like the play too. (You already stated they all felt comfortable with the position Yes. And its good because I was getting too afraid of strangers, you know, and what they think. This job is a good desensitiser for me to be working with crowds.
It’s really funny where we (asd-ers) are the same and where we differ. You see strangers don’t bother us at all. Friends do. Co-workers do. Family do. I’m glad this job is working out so good for you. -N- desparately wants to know if you get to go exploring behind stage and elsewhere? No. Ushers are like dba’s, if they are not outright treated as sc*m then they are treated as unwelcome outside their area. When my father did plays I used to explore the sets ( and be trailed by fussy defensive set directors ) and also just out of habit when I was in New York I explored the set of Cats until someone realised I shouldn’t be there:)
Been there. It’s a pitiful statement of humanity that people have to feel that there is any difference at all between other people. The best people I ever knew sincerely felt like they had vision while the rest of the world was blind. Me too sometimes. 
To heck with them. Go exploring anyway! Do they serve jello during intermissions? No, but there is a *bar* downstairs in which the play is broadcast live on a tv and you can go down there and eat peanuts cookies etc and drink whatever you want to pay for:)
Hmmm… Black&Tan flavoured jello… I’ll have to remember to call Bill Cosby. Do you get to talk to any of the actors? Last time I saw this production, there was an actor named Kelvin Yee who was playing a gh*st and did the most ~amazing~ stylised spooky job of it. He was the only commited actor in the cast. Almost at the end of the run I told him that, and I thanked him very much for doing such a wonderful job, and we got to chatting, and he explained that he was studying Butoh postures and that these are traditional gh*st postures ( believe me this worked because whenever he even stood up children were carried out in terror from the theatre ) and he was so touched that someone cared, that he refused to sign my program right away, but rather took it home to write a long note into. I wont really start at the theater till next week, havent even see the full pay yet.
That’s a cool story so I left it in. The story about Rulia Jaul I took out because he doesn’t deserve the advertisement space even though it too was a good anecdote Too Cool. We went to see A Chr*stm*s Carol this evening and we had front row center seats. We could have reached up and touched Ebeneezer and the smoke from the third sp*r*t enveloped our seats and I thought about you and your new job. Too Cool. See, this is the bit I saved as your surprise, thats the play I’m working for:) One of my favorites! Someone posted recently that they liked Scrooge and I thought oh, me too:)
Toooooo Coooooool! This is about the 6th time I’ve seen it at this theatre. It never seems to grow old. NOJ
Keep us up to date on the production. OK NOJ? -Luthe- P.S. Hi, Cassandra! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:
A similar question is: By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? a) Total gas cost divided among all people. b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine the extra.) c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times mileage) then divided among all travelers. d) other, you explain.
This could profitably have been cross-posted to rec.skiing! Oh well. I usually use method a). I have had passengers suggest a modification to a) where, to make up for extra expenses (as in b)), the driver should not be counted in the "all people" group. My reasoning: The total cost per mile of operating a car is considerably greater than the marginal cost per mile of operating a car. Since I would own a car anyway, the only relevant costs (to me) are the marginal costs. This eliminates c). Also, I would make the trip anyway even as a solo trip (and frequently do), so I am not worried about the shortened tune-up/oil change intervals. My mileage on the highway is quite good (high 30’s: lower in cold weather), so it really does not matter that much to me anyway. Also, since I plan to keep the car many years, I am not worried about the added depreciation from the extra miles. Tom. | Tom Tilley |
Eugene N. Miya writes: By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? a) Total gas cost divided among all people. b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine the extra.) c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times mileage) then divided among all travelers. d) other, you explain.
For the MIT Outing Club, the official method is to charge a certain amount per rider per mile. This has the advantage that the costs are predictable. The price was set so that with a full car, the driver would get a bit more that the gas costs. If you drive a huge car with only two people in it, then the driver might not recoup the gas used. -Jeff Bell
We just tax people. Alright everyone put in bucks to start with. Everyone then goes to the envelope in the car and takes what he needs for sharables. When the pool runs out we have another tax. When the trip is over we split whats left. No receipts, no calculators, no problem. – Rick — Richard L. Hudson, Research Associate University Computing Services Lederle Graduate Research Center University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003
Valerie Article-I.D.: casbah.1992Jan23.215108.8458 A similar question is: By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? a) Total gas cost divided among all people. b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine the extra.) c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times mileage) then divided among all travelers. d) other, you explain.
Another method I’ve used in the past is to get one of those money bags..(zippered like a bank bag) and have everyone pitch in $20) All common expenses like gas, camp fees etc: are covered with cash from the bag. When the money runs out everyone again pitches in an equal amount $5 $10 $100 whatever is required… At the end of the trip just split up the cash again or offer the driver more in return for their trouble… Just my .02 worth Valerie Most people will respond to this, if not they are Valerie probably not the kind of people you want to take climbing or backpacking Valerie with you anyway. You know, unreliable, not too bright, might not be the Valerie kind to share their last packet of oatmeal with you. Life is too short to Valerie go through it bickering about expenses and most things equal out in the end Valerie anyway. Agreed…!!! There are usually many more things to worry about than the expenses on such a trip. — % Tim Schneider Honeywell — Air Transport Systems Division % % Phone:(602) 436-3078 P.O. Box 21111 M/S KM29D1 Phoenix, AZ 85036 %
I enjoyed all the postings on this thread. My comments: 1) I have used all four methods myself. On trips up to 500 miles I have gladily assumed all expenses with good long term life saving partners. 2) And yes we rotate drivers and cars on different weekends, but one can’t assume you just go with these friends. 3) Nor can you assume vehicles of same capabilities. I purchased my diesel Rabbit with an extra tank in 1978 I get 50 MPG with a 22+ gallon range to go to the Tetons. It’s carried me nearly 300K miles (actually I’ve loaned my car to a friend [assume the insurance and its yours until you get your PhD, which she did]. No tune up, but we did have a couple of 4) miniepics with car troubles (hey old Joshua Tree flash floods and belts or radiators breaking). My Trooper is for carrying people and loads in rugged situations and I have hung it up on rocks. Now, getting on 100K miles with a good percentage in 4WD. So I do not assume I travel with the same people all the time. Consider the variation where all passengers pay (I have done this) if passengers == 1, then you handle all expenses and they do the gas. That’s okay. I’ve done that. But the cost of owning vehicles now isn’t the same as 1978. I wanted to see the diversity of response on this question. Time to go get some cars parts and go climbing again. In the early days I used to climb with some Scotish types.
This was the note I chose to respond. One Scottish partner (Cardy) used to tell stories of all the cars he abandoned on all the climbing trips to the Alps he did. Just left them on the Autobahn. So I had to smile when you noted Scotsmen. Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
What about other expenses, food, camping, permits, lodging, etc? I prefer the "kitty" method. I like to be fair about splitting large trip costs, and I hate splitting the cost of EACH item, it is tedious and seems silly.
……. What do you use?
Very simiar to this. At the end of the trip, everyone says how much he spent (includes food, odds-and-ends for the trip, gas, odd milkshake, 5 coffees to keep awake, whatever). Then we split it. It is sometimes inconvenient to have one person doing all the paying, especially when there are two cars. Brian — Brian D. Alleyne
– | | By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? | a) Total gas cost divided among all people. | b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, | insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine | the extra.) | c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times | mileage) then divided among all travelers. | d) other, you explain. | | d) I take what is offered, never asking for anything. If I get asked what I want, I say "whatever you think is fair". With a few of my partners this results in some unusual payments. In the last year I have accepted as gas "money": an 8 lb. steelhead 30 minutes out of the water, rolls of film, a huge container of red vines, books, and a large bag of coffee beans. The most valuable, though, was my friend Randy packing out all the gear from an aborted climb so I could make a lightweight 20-mile high speed day trip through some great high country, coming out at a different trailhead, where he picked me up. My reasoning on this policy is simple: If these people in my car were not with me, I would still be going somewhere and putting the same miles on the car, so who cares? If someone isn’t consciencious enough to be putting up their fair share, they aren’t the kind of person I want to be sharing my weekends with anyway. You pay the insurance whether you drive anywhere or not. Peter. — * Unfortunately, I do have to work. *
By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? d) other, you explain.
I make it up as I go along, and I’m usually generous. For < 200 miles or so, I tend to say, "I’m going anyway, so the seat is free". Beyond that, chip in roughly equally, whatever. For major adventures with a significant other, I believe in splitting costs approximately in proportion to incomes. "From each according to their means; to each according to their needs." For houseboat trips, we account for costs and everyone splits them. My priority is that everyone including myself feel minimal pain over the issue. Sometimes that means paying more than others. Sometimes it means me doing more accounting (so I’m comfortable).
I never ask for gas money. It always gets offered. Usually more than enough.
In the early days I used to climb with some Scotish types. I tried the above method a few times but I found that not only would I end up paying for the gas, etc but they would also try and get me to buy an extra round at the bar. It only took two trips to figure this out and then there was a real competition, try to get two Scotish brothers to spend as much cash as one Canadian. —
What about other expenses, food, camping, permits, lodging, etc? I prefer the "kitty" method. I like to be fair about splitting large trip costs, and I hate splitting the cost of EACH item, it is tedious and seems silly. For example, the group pulls into a campground – the cost is $9 plus a $2 parking sticker. There are 3 tripsters – it just gets messy You take a toll highway and bridge for $5.28, etc. Then there is food that you purchase immediately before entering the backcountry, fresh meat, cheese, etc. On a sailing trip I took last year there were mooring costs, etc. A kitty or "till" with an appointed "Keeper of the cash" has made things simpler. Everyone chips in $20 dollars, and whatever is left we split. The appointed one just picks up the tab for everything. It makes the trip easier. This method seems obvious to me, (and maybe you) but I have been with some tripsters that insist we use a different accounting method. This includes the "I’ll pick up this cost, you get the next one", and others. What do you use?
eugene A similar question is: eugene By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? eugene a) Total gas cost divided among all people. eugene b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, eugene insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine eugene the extra.) eugene c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times eugene mileage) then divided among all travelers. eugene d) other, you explain. I use (d). I don’t charge. I figure it all comes out even in the long run. — Vladimir — Vladimir G. Ivanovic Sun Microsystems, Inc (415) 336-2315 MTV12-33 {decwrl,hplabs,ucbvax}!sun!Eng!vladimir Mountain View, CA 94043-1100 Disclaimer: I speak for myself.
A similar question is: By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? a) Total gas cost divided among all people. b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine the extra.) c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times mileage) then divided among all travelers. d) other, you explain. When I just owned a diesel Rabbit, a) was acceptable. It was a cheap car to run and maintain, simpler, requiring no tune ups, I did all serving. b) became acceptable for some friends on trips/ magic was used to determine the extra expense. The Sierra Club and businesses and even the Government used c) for their travel accounting and since getting my more expensive 4WD I typically use this method much to some people’s consternation.
Our uni Outdoor Activitie’s club policy is to divide petrol(gas) costs amongst the passengers. This is a fairly arbitrary way of determining the extra mentioned in method (b) above. In practice, it has psychological plausibility. Due to lack of suitable cars (& experienced drivers) for many trips, we need to encourage people to volunteer use of their cars for long trips using dubious roads! We offer them the carrot of not contributing to petrol costs. The owner, of course, pays for any unfortunate "collateral damage" in way of holes in sumps, snapped diffs, blown tyres, smashed globes. And of course, the driver pays for any speeding fines accrued in his/her driving stint! For private trips, I generally use (subject to discussion with the others!) a), because amongst friends I assume some sort of reciprocation somewhere down the line (i.e. their company and so it evens out in the end. cheers, Rohan. —
| | eugene A similar question is: | | eugene By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? | eugene a) Total gas cost divided among all people. | eugene b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, | eugene insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine | eugene the extra.) | eugene c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times | eugene mileage) then divided among all travelers. | eugene d) other, you explain. | | I use (d). I don’t charge. I figure it all comes out even in the long run. I like the (d) method, but it doesn’t come out even in the long run for me because I ALWAYS drive. My partner always has some excuse why he can’t drive. Also, my car is nicer and roomier for those long road trips. I work it this way. If I drive, then they pay for ALL the gas (with my car this is much cheaper than the current govt. rate of $0.28/mile. It is more like $0.05/mile. This also has the added incentive maybe getting him to drive next time. . I have definitely found that just splitting the gas is not sufficient. Oil and tires are a very significant cost of driving on our long trips ($5 in oil and tire wear in a single Yosemite trip.) I also only do this with my regular partner and only on longer trips. On trips to Pinnacles, the riders should buy the driver a Jamocha shake on the return trip. I never ask for gas money. It always gets offered. Usually more than enough. I always offer gas money. Always more than enough. Always keep the drivers happy. Oh, one more thing. On a recent trip to Yosemite some asshole threw a beer bottle at my windshield and both shattered. The Loobster was driving and to his immense credit, split the $100 deductible with me. Good Loobster! — "You have to ask yourself just how much more blacker can it be. And the answer is: none. None more blacker." — Nigel from Spinal Tap
Option d) is usual – usually the gas cost is split about equally among all riders including the driver, and there is an additional understanding that on future trips, the driving responsibility will be rotated. SC
My method of accounting for travel expenses is social. On daytrips with friends, I cover transportation costs. (My logic is that those who can afford to, will reciprocate, while those who can’t afford to, won’t!) On daytrips with novices that I’ve met through the climbing club, they split my gas expenses, or pay $1 each, whichever is more. On extended trips I only travel with friends, and we split gas & oil. Social accounting: it all depends on my relation to the other people involved. -= Doug Hemken
By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? a) Total gas cost divided among all people. b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine the extra.) c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times mileage) then divided among all travelers. d) other, you explain.
For weekend trips, our University Hill-Walking Club hires minibuses (or sometimes cars for small trips), and the total cost of hire and petrol is shared in such a way that all the passengers pay the same, but the driver pays 2 pounds(UK) less. Recently, we had a week-long trip in the Christmas vacation, with everybody making their own way up. A bus was chartered to ferry people in from the nearest BritRail station, and again at the end of the trip to ferry them back out. During the intervening week, four people (who had brought their own cars) agreed to use their cars for transport. The system used to split costs was: 22 non-drivers charged 4.00 each = 88.00 2 bus journeys at 30.00 each = 60.00 4 drivers receive 7.00 each = 28.00 (T.M. Speight at CUED )
A similar question is: By which method do you share travel expenses on trips? a) Total gas cost divided among all people. b) Total gas cost plus a little extra for expenses like oil, insurance, etc. divided. (explain how you determine the extra.) c) Fixed rate cost per mile ala ($0.20-$0.25 a mile times mileage) then divided among all travelers. d) other, you explain. When I just owned a diesel Rabbit, a) was acceptable. It was a cheap car to run and maintain, simpler, requiring no tune ups, I did all serving. b) became acceptable for some friends on trips/ magic was used to determine the extra expense. The Sierra Club and businesses and even the Government used c) for their travel accounting and since getting my more expensive 4WD I typically use this method much to some people’s consternation. Anyways, I’m off to go climbing. Will see follow ups Tuesday evening. Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene