Question:

WARNING:  this ended up being …well, a GOOD bit longer than I first imagined it being!  I guess that’s what studying negotiable instruments can do to you — make you want to write about something else forever. I’m 24 and just graduated this past May with an accounting degree.  I am scheduled to take a few sections of the CPA within the next few weeks and months.  Thus, I have been spending my time since graduation studying for CPA sections.  My plan was to pass all sections within 6 months, but I haven’t even taken one yet due to some bad time-management decisions that are now straightened out for the most part, but the parents are getting somewhat annoyed (as am I) that I’m actually *STILL* here.  I guess I just found it difficult to concentrate sometimes when it was (still is though) just me and CPA review material and all this time until I test.  It’s just hard to get the motivation to prepare for a test when the test always seems to be months away (thankfully that’s no longer true, as I take Regulation Feb 28th, which I should be studying for now).  I know some may say I have it easy living at home, but I’d rather be working, as I think it’d motivate me more.  But, regardless of whether or not I pass exam sections, I will fairly soon be forced to pick up at least a part time job doing just about anything I can.  I’ve sent resumes out to a couple of local places, but no response.  My overall college GPA was 3.1, with 150 hours, even though I’m still lacking two classes (advanced cost and advanced financial) to meet the education requirement for licensing in my state.  Of course, licensing is (obviously) not even close to being the most relevant thing to me right now. However, I still have a couple of problems.  First, for anyone who actually looks at my transcript, my grades have quite a large variation.  To make a long story short, I did really well my first two years of college, but I had 2 or 3 fairly poor semesters my last three years in college, and the rest of my semesters during my last three years were average, unless you count summer school or my very last semester (in which I made Dean’s list…end with a bang ya know). However, I did very well in some key classes, such as Intermediate Corporate Finance for finance majors and Financial Accounting 2 (A’s in both).  I’m probably best with financial accounting, as it seems to come somewhat naturally to me, at least when I give a somewhat decent effort.  However, on a side not, I had an incredibly difficult time with my systems class.  Financial Accounting 2 was so very easy to me compared to systems.  I guess I should have spent more time trying to learn it, but my flowcharts and data-flow diagrams never seemed to come out quite right.  I hope to improve myself in this area, as I think it’s important, but it just seems so hard to do without being in the real world. Anyway, after all this procrastination, I guess this brings us to the first question: do accounting firms always look at college transcripts?  Also, assuming the answer to that is yes, I assume a 3.1 is generally not good enough for a middle-tier firm (and obviously not for large ones I would think), especially with the variation in my grades. Another problem is that my only work experience has been work as a summer hire for the federal government 3 different summers during high school and college.  It wasn’t related to accounting.  I would have worked somewhere doing accounting work during other summers, but I had to take classes.  And, yes, I suppose I was a lazy undergraduate.  But just because I was lazy then, doesn’t mean I always will be.  However, I realize an accounting firm is most likely NOT going to be wanting to interview me with a 3.1 and no work experience.  Also, I realize that I did not go through the proper channels.  I was actually invited to a Beta Alpha Psi meeting (even after one of my horrible semesters) and I realize that most people who get jobs with accounting firms do so through that or through people they know.  I didn’t really know anybody, and I think the professors actually didn’t like me too much (if they even knew who I was or cared) because I really sometimes would not try very hard. Anyway, let’s get to the point. There are two plans I have devised.  Which one would do you think is better based on your knowledge of how the accounting world works? 1)  Start working doing whatever I can find, accounting or not accounting, take my CPA sections, and also study for and take the GMAT.  My school uses a formula (based on GPA and GMAT) for an unconditional acceptance into its graduate program, and, with my GPA, I would need a 580 on the GMAT in order to get an acceptance into its program.  I’ve taken a practice GMAT before (one from the official site), and 580 is not out of my range, especially if I study for the math part.  I could enroll this fall, and save up tuition money by working through the summer.  Of course, the problem is I would definitely need to have a part time job in graduate school, as I doubt the loan money would get me far enough (although perhaps it could, as I am incredibly low maintenance in most areas, except food).  Ironically, I think my verbal section came in at a much higher percentile, but that’s probably because I haven’t seen geometry or dealt with permutations, factoring, prime numbers, sequences, etc. in YEARS. OR I could 2)  Forget graduate school, keep sending my resume to places –all kinds of places all over the country, not just here in my city– and keep trying to pass my CPA exam sections, all the while finding work in whatever I can find as in section 1. 3)  Ditch the accounting profession (I don’t plan on this option). Ok, back to negotiable instruments.

Response:

I’m going to top post since the OP is so long. When I was an undergrad, I was advised to find work in the field right away and work on graduate studies as I worked/gained experience.  I was told that it would be more difficult getting entry level positions with a higher degree because pay based upon experience versus pay based upon education would never mesh.  So that is what I am doing and, thus far, it has been to my benefit as my employer is paying for my classes and will probably also pay for my CPA exam.  Besides that, it  is quite helpful to have some practical experience when in graduate classes. A 3.1 GPA is not incredibly bad and I have never had a potential employer ask me for my transcript, only my GPA.  If I were you, my resume would present the GPA, but also present how you excelled in the courses in which you did.  Be sure to include talents you have that could be related to business, but aren’t necessarily related to accounting as well.  I got my current position partially because I was the editor for my college newspaper for a year and I had designed a few web sites.  Guess what?  I work on our web site and edit all important documents in addition to my accounting duties. Don’t underestimate working before you shell out the dollars for all of the CPA exam and for graduate studies.  A good employer may pay for these for you.  Don’t just take a job, any job, unless it is needed for survival.  Work hard to get your foot in the door in accounting. If lack of experience is causing closed doors, consider volunteering to do some accounting (the VITA program, local churches, etc…) to gain a little experience. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WARNING:  this ended up being …well, a GOOD bit longer than I first imagined it being!  I guess that’s what studying negotiable instruments can do to you — make you want to write about something else forever. I’m 24 and just graduated this past May with an accounting degree.  I am scheduled to take a few sections of the CPA within the next few weeks and months.  Thus, I have been spending my time since graduation studying for CPA sections.  My plan was to pass all sections within 6 months, but I haven’t even taken one yet due to some bad time-management decisions that are now straightened out for the most part, but the parents are getting somewhat annoyed (as am I) that I’m actually *STILL* here.  I guess I just found it difficult to concentrate sometimes when it was (still is though) just me and CPA review material and all this time until I test.  It’s just hard to get the motivation to prepare for a test when the test always seems to be months away (thankfully that’s no longer true, as I take Regulation Feb 28th, which I should be studying for now).  I know some may say I have it easy living at home, but I’d rather be working, as I think it’d motivate me more.  But, regardless of whether or not I pass exam sections, I will fairly soon be forced to pick up at least a part time job doing just about anything I can.  I’ve sent resumes out to a couple of local places, but no response.  My overall college GPA was 3.1, with 150 hours, even though I’m still lacking two classes (advanced cost and advanced financial) to meet the education requirement for licensing in my state.  Of course, licensing is (obviously) not even close to being the most relevant thing to me right now. However, I still have a couple of problems.  First, for anyone who actually looks at my transcript, my grades have quite a large variation.  To make a long story short, I did really well my first two years of college, but I had 2 or 3 fairly poor semesters my last three years in college, and the rest of my semesters during my last three years were average, unless you count summer school or my very last semester (in which I made Dean’s list…end with a bang ya know). However, I did very well in some key classes, such as Intermediate Corporate Finance for finance majors and Financial Accounting 2 (A’s in both).  I’m probably best with financial accounting, as it seems to come somewhat naturally to me, at least when I give a somewhat decent effort.  However, on a side not, I had an incredibly difficult time with my systems class.  Financial Accounting 2 was so very easy to me compared to systems.  I guess I should have spent more time trying to learn it, but my flowcharts and data-flow diagrams never seemed to come out quite right.  I hope to improve myself in this area, as I think it’s important, but it just seems so hard to do without being in the real world. Anyway, after all this procrastination, I guess this brings us to the first question: do accounting firms always look at college transcripts?  Also, assuming the answer to that is yes, I assume a 3.1 is generally not good enough for a middle-tier firm (and obviously not for large ones I would think), especially with the variation in my grades. Another problem is that my only work experience has been work as a summer hire for the federal government 3 different summers during high school and college.  It wasn’t related to accounting.  I would have worked somewhere doing accounting work during other summers, but I had to take classes.  And, yes, I suppose I was a lazy undergraduate.  But just because I was lazy then, doesn’t mean I always will be.  However, I realize an accounting firm is most likely NOT going to be wanting to interview me with a 3.1 and no work experience.  Also, I realize that I did not go through the proper channels.  I was actually invited to a Beta Alpha Psi meeting (even after one of my horrible semesters) and I realize that most people who get jobs with accounting firms do so through that or through people they know.  I didn’t really know anybody, and I think the professors actually didn’t like me too much (if they even knew who I was or cared) because I really sometimes would not try very hard. Anyway, let’s get to the point. There are two plans I have devised.  Which one would do you think is better based on your knowledge of how the accounting world works? 1)  Start working doing whatever I can find, accounting or not accounting, take my CPA sections, and also study for and take the GMAT. My school uses a formula (based on GPA and GMAT) for an unconditional acceptance into its graduate program, and, with my GPA, I would need a 580 on the GMAT in order to get an acceptance into its program.  I’ve taken a practice GMAT before (one from the official site), and 580 is not out of my range, especially if I study for the math part.  I could enroll this fall, and save up tuition money by working through the summer.  Of course, the problem is I would definitely need to have a part time job in graduate school, as I doubt the loan money would get me far enough (although perhaps it could, as I am incredibly low maintenance in most areas, except food).  Ironically, I think my verbal section came in at a much higher percentile, but that’s probably because I haven’t seen geometry or dealt with permutations, factoring, prime numbers, sequences, etc. in YEARS. OR I could 2)  Forget graduate school, keep sending my resume to places –all kinds of places all over the country, not just here in my city– and keep trying to pass my CPA exam sections, all the while finding work in whatever I can find as in section 1. 3)  Ditch the accounting profession (I don’t plan on this option). Ok, back to negotiable instruments.

Response:

 You mean to tell me you’ve been doing nothing but studying for the CPA exam 9 months?  Or at least supposed to be studying.  You need to get a job in the accounting profession right away.  How are you going to explain the past 9 months in a job interview?  Passing the CPA exam and getting a Master’s degree are important things, but you should be taking care of those things after hours.  Getting experience right now is the best thing you can do for yourself. Preston

Response:

Question:

Last night an audit partner from a local firm came to my intermediate accounting class and spoke with us at length about public accounting. She started out at Ernest &Young, but is now working for a local firm, Carr, Riggs, & Ingram LLP (the local firm is ranked #48 nationally). She informed me and the class that anyone who wants to work in public accounting should get their CPA, regardless of what specialty you are after. Her reason was this: Taking the CPA exam and the courses for it will further ones understanding and ability to do the accounting work that is required, to assess and make good rational judgments about the work, and further your place in climbing the ladder. When she went to work for Ernest & Young they told her that she had to get her CPA. She said that many public accounting firms require it. This she has done. She also has her CIA and CFE. And if anyone is wanting to go into forensic accounting, the market is very much in demand of these types of people. However, most public accounting firms are looking for high GPA students that are getting their CPA as well as their CFE or CIA. BOL, Janice

Response:

There is one thing I forgot to mention: If anyone is seeking to be an auditor (public or private) it is very important that your grammar skills are fined tuned. Because if your report contains a lot of grammatical errors or appears sloppy to the manager or partner it will have to be redone. Janice   Last night an audit partner from a local firm came to my intermediate accounting class and spoke with us at length about public accounting. She started out at Ernest &Young, but is now working for a local firm, Carr, Riggs, & Ingram LLP (the local firm is ranked #48 nationally). She informed me and the class that anyone who wants to work in public accounting should get their CPA, regardless of what specialty you are after. Her reason was this: Taking the CPA exam and the courses for it will further ones understanding and ability to do the accounting work that is required, to assess and make good rational judgments about the work, and further your place in climbing the ladder. When she went to work for Ernest & Young they told her that she had to get her CPA. She said that many public accounting firms require it. This she has done. She also has her CIA and CFE. And if anyone is wanting to go into forensic accounting, the market is very much in demand of these types of people. However, most public accounting firms are looking for high GPA students that are getting their CPA as well as their CFE or CIA.   BOL,   Janice

Response:

duh!

Response:

duh!

You’d be surprised how many people have trouble in this area. If you haven’t read Mr. Paul’s statement at the end of his postings I advise you to do so. I was informed that, for whatever reason, most accountants have trouble writing their reports grammatically correct.

Response:

Most professional jobs require good grammar skills,  your memos and reports will not be like usenet groups!   There is one thing I forgot to mention: If anyone is seeking to be an auditor (public or private) it is very important that your grammar skills are fined tuned. Because if your report contains a lot of grammatical errors or appears sloppy to the manager or partner it will have to be redone.   Janice     Last night an audit partner from a local firm came to my intermediate accounting class and spoke with us at length about public accounting. She started out at Ernest &Young, but is now working for a local firm, Carr, Riggs, & Ingram LLP (the local firm is ranked #48 nationally). She informed me and the class that anyone who wants to work in public accounting should get their CPA, regardless of what specialty you are after. Her reason was this: Taking the CPA exam and the courses for it will further ones understanding and ability to do the accounting work that is required, to assess and make good rational judgments about the work, and further your place in climbing the ladder. When she went to work for Ernest & Young they told her that she had to get her CPA. She said that many public accounting firms require it. This she has done. She also has her CIA and CFE. And if anyone is wanting to go into forensic accounting, the market is very much in demand of these types of people. However, most public accounting firms are looking for high GPA students that are getting their CPA as well as their CFE or CIA.     BOL,     Janice

Response:

She started out at Ernest &Young

Ernst & Young The other 3 of the "Big 4" are PriceWaterhouseCoopers Delloite & Touche KPMG She informed me and the class that anyone who wants to work in public = accounting should get their CPA,

I agree Taking the CPA exam and the courses for it will further ones understanding

and ability to do the accounting work that is required, to assess and make good rational judgments about the work, I don’t know if I agree with that.  You should pass it because it is the primary designation that the public expects qualified accountants to achieve. I have met people with a poor understanding of accounting that have passed it, and people with a good understanding of accounting who could never pass it. and further your place in climbing the ladder.

That’s the real reason it is good to pass. However, most public accounting firms are looking for high GPA students that are getting their CPA as well as their CFE or CIA

With the current state of the economy, they can afford to be picky.

Response:

It’s Deloitte, not Delloite.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She started out at Ernest &Young Ernst & Young The other 3 of the "Big 4" are PriceWaterhouseCoopers Delloite & Touche KPMG She informed me and the class that anyone who wants to work in public = accounting should get their CPA, I agree Taking the CPA exam and the courses for it will further ones understanding and ability to do the accounting work that is required, to assess and make good rational judgments about the work, I don’t know if I agree with that.  You should pass it because it is the primary designation that the public expects qualified accountants to achieve. I have met people with a poor understanding of accounting that have passed it, and people with a good understanding of accounting who could never pass it. and further your place in climbing the ladder. That’s the real reason it is good to pass. However, most public accounting firms are looking for high GPA students that are getting their CPA as well as their CFE or CIA With the current state of the economy, they can afford to be picky.

Response:

You are correct.  Oops! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It’s Deloitte, not Delloite. She started out at Ernest &Young Ernst & Young The other 3 of the "Big 4" are PriceWaterhouseCoopers Delloite & Touche KPMG She informed me and the class that anyone who wants to work in public = accounting should get their CPA, I agree Taking the CPA exam and the courses for it will further ones understanding and ability to do the accounting work that is required, to assess and make good rational judgments about the work, I don’t know if I agree with that.  You should pass it because it is the primary designation that the public expects qualified accountants to achieve. I have met people with a poor understanding of accounting that have passed it, and people with a good understanding of accounting who could never pass it. and further your place in climbing the ladder. That’s the real reason it is good to pass. However, most public accounting firms are looking for high GPA students that are getting their CPA as well as their CFE or CIA With the current state of the economy, they can afford to be picky.

Response:

Question:

Enron executives would call it "aggressive accounting". Bela P. Havasreti – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -That’s some pretty creative math. We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

Response:

if he would have stayed three days he would have gotten 29.7 gallons of gas for free and $43.08 in cash.

Have any of you ever BEEN to Las Vegas?  They have gimmicks like this everywhere. They know NOBODY leaves Las Vegas ahead.  You may get free fuel at the FBO, but you’re pay heavily at the craps table

Response:

Jon,         Did you formerly work for Enron as an auditor? Terry

Response:

All seriousness aside (with apologies to the late Steve Allen), this kind of creative accounting is what makes owning your own plane possible. For example, if Jay Honeck firmly decides to buy a _new_ 182 — no, wait — a new _turbo_ 182, then doesn’t, he can buy a great 1980 era 182 and have a couple hundred thousand bucks left over to spend on all the goodies. Jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jon,         Did you formerly work for Enron as an auditor? Terry

Response:

Agreed.  Arthur Andersen may be looking for some people!  Suggest he sends a resume! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s some pretty creative math. We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

Response:

For example, if Jay Honeck firmly decides to buy a _new_ 182 — no, wait — a new _turbo_ 182, then doesn’t, he can buy a great 1980 era 182 and have a couple hundred thousand bucks left over to spend on all the goodies.

Why, I’ve used this accounting method for many years! By not buying the Comanche I originally wanted (back in ‘98), I figure I’ve easily saved enough money to pay for my kid’s college education. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

By not buying the Comanche I originally wanted (back in ‘98), I figure I’ve easily saved enough money to pay for my kid’s college education. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

If you had bought the Comanche you wanted back in "98, you wouldn’t even dream of buying a Skylane now. Why don’t you consider a Comanche now?  I think your concern about retractable gear is neglecting the benefits. Hank Henry A. Spellman Comanche N5903P

Response:

sounds like she made a mistake at the counter.. I’d wait till your credit card bill shows up… interesting options though… "you can pay $50 to park.. or buy 20 gallons… so if you buy 20 gallons.. and 1/3rd the rate more than the "satellite" airports.. they discount the ramp fee?…  mmmm… TZ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

Response:

If you had bought the Comanche you wanted back in "98, you wouldn’t even dream of buying a Skylane now.

So true.  God, I love ‘em! Why don’t you consider a Comanche now?  I think your concern about retractable gear is neglecting the benefits.

Well, Hank, I’m just a bit "gun-shy" after being nailed with a $4900 first annual on my supposedly "simple" Warrior back in ‘99.   I can just imagine what that might have cost me with a Comanche! No, my next step (and remember, this is Mary’s very first baby step into a new make and model) is going to be as simple as possible, while meeting the family’s needs. All roads seems to eventually lead to Skylane-land, unless a Cherokee Six falls into my lap. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

Why don’t you consider a Comanche now?  I think your concern about retractable gear is neglecting the benefits. Well, Hank, I’m just a bit "gun-shy" after being nailed with a $4900 first annual on my supposedly "simple" Warrior back in ‘99.   I can just imagine what that might have cost me with a Comanche!

Comanches are great airplanes!  I think they’re one of the best things Piper ever made.  The only thing I really dislike about them is that most of ‘em have a real shotgun panel.  There are a few with overhauled, all-metal panels with everything well organized, but it seems those airplanes are a bit higher up on the price list. The other big thing about the Comanche is that they are all fairly old.  It’s not the fault of the Comanche design, it’s just something to keep in mind.  Owners love ‘em, though.  Kind of like the Skylane. –Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -No, my next step (and remember, this is Mary’s very first baby step into a new make and model) is going to be as simple as possible, while meeting the family’s needs. All roads seems to eventually lead to Skylane-land, unless a Cherokee Six falls into my lap. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

Well, Hank, I’m just a bit "gun-shy" after being nailed with a $4900 first annual on my supposedly "simple" Warrior back in ‘99.   I can just imagine what that might have cost me with a Comanche!

That is what the prebuy inspection is supposed to avoid.  One of the major Comanche maintenance gurus is not too for from you in Newton, Kansas.  I would take any Comanche there for a prebuy.  You can take what he tells you to the bank. No, my next step (and remember, this is Mary’s very first baby step into a new make and model) is going to be as simple as possible, while meeting the family’s needs.

With the gear down, a Comanche feels a lot like a Cherokee (although its been 30 years since I have flown a Cherokee).  The big problem that most people have with a Comanche is that they learn to fly one from a CFI who does not know its idiosyncrasies.  For example, most will teach the use of too much airspeed on final.  The result is almost always a lousy landing which gave rise to the undeserved reputation for being difficult to land.  The International Comanche Society has instructors who can teach you the right way to fly it. But I can understand your trepidation.  But if Mary had been at the airport the day I stopped in, I bet you would not be looking at a Skylane now. Hank Henry A. Spellman Comanche N5903P

Response:

By the way, if the weather is decent, Newton (EWK) makes a nice mid-continent stopping point for fuel.  Easy in & out, really friendly folks with good service. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, Hank, I’m just a bit "gun-shy" after being nailed with a $4900 first annual on my supposedly "simple" Warrior back in ‘99.   I can just imagine what that might have cost me with a Comanche! That is what the prebuy inspection is supposed to avoid.  One of the major Comanche maintenance gurus is not too for from you in Newton, Kansas.  I would take any Comanche there for a prebuy.  You can take what he tells you to the bank. No, my next step (and remember, this is Mary’s very first baby step into a new make and model) is going to be as simple as possible, while meeting the family’s needs. With the gear down, a Comanche feels a lot like a Cherokee (although its been 30 years since I have flown a Cherokee).  The big problem that most people have with a Comanche is that they learn to fly one from a CFI who does not know its idiosyncrasies.  For example, most will teach the use of too much airspeed on final.  The result is almost always a lousy landing which gave rise to the undeserved reputation for being difficult to land.  The International Comanche Society has instructors who can teach you the right way to fly it. But I can understand your trepidation.  But if Mary had been at the airport the day I stopped in, I bet you would not be looking at a Skylane now. Hank Henry A. Spellman Comanche N5903P

Response:

But I can understand your trepidation.  But if Mary had been at the airport the day I stopped in, I bet you would not be looking at a Skylane now.

I’ll bet you are right! And if I had purchased the first plane I ever loved (and looked at), I’d own a Comanche right now. Oh well — some day! — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

And if I had purchased the first plane I ever loved (and looked at), I’d own a Comanche right now. Oh well — some day!

Jay, I am almost 61 (see the other thread on looking to the future), and I keep remembering what my father said near the end of his final illness:  "I don’t regret a single thing I have done in my life.  But I certainly do regret a number of things I didn’t do." There is a large lesson in that statement. Do what you really want to do while you can. There are some really nice Comanches out there just waiting for you to own them. Hank Henry A. Spellman Comanche N5903P

Response:

We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

Response:

That’s some pretty creative math.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

Response:

hmm… if they would just charge more for their ramp fees, we might be able to fly for free! Jim B

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s some pretty creative math. We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

Response:

Heck, if he would have stayed three days he would have gotten 29.7 gallons of gas for free and $43.08 in cash.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hmm… if they would just charge more for their ramp fees, we might be able to fly for free! Jim B That’s some pretty creative math. We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

Response:

WOW!  that’s even better!  getting paid to fly!  wonder how you declare that income on your tax return… lol   Occupation: Ramp Rat Jim B

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heck, if he would have stayed three days he would have gotten 29.7 gallons of gas for free and $43.08 in cash. hmm… if they would just charge more for their ramp fees, we might be able to fly for free! Jim B That’s some pretty creative math. We flew into Las Vegas McCarran last week and parked at Executive Air for two days. Their ramp fee is $50 per day but one day’s fee is waived if you buy at least 20 gallons of fuel. I bought 29.7 gallons at $3.60 per gallon, which totals $106.92. But the nice lady at the counter gave us a break and waived both days’ ramp fees. So the fuel actually only cost us $6.92 total. That’s 23 cents per gallon. What a deal! Jon

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Question:

Oman was absolutely fantastic, I’d love to go back if I could get a job as a medical transcriptionist there.  I was working for the oil company in the computer department at the time (technical project leader), stayed for nine years.  Loved the people, the physical beauty of the country, the water sports, the company facilities (boat club etc.), even the work was fun, most of the time.  The Omanis I worked with were really nice. Problem was I got burned out on the computer biz (it is an occupational hazard) and decided to leave and come up with something else to do for a living when my husband decided to go back to university in Britain.  He is now an astronomer, an observer at an observatory here in New Mexico. Somehow it took me eight years to come up with something, I’d basically rather be retired than anything, just lazy I guess. If there is anything specific you’d like to know about Oman, email me separately and we’ll carry on the conversation. — Sharon B. To email, replace ‘notreal’ with ’sabarr’ in heading email address

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Yep, Iran (1979), Saudi (1980-81), Oman (1985-1993).  I’m vaguely thinking about going back to Saudi–see separate post by me.  Old expats never die, they just keep looking for contracts!  (I’m currently in the States.)

The reason I asked was because most people seem to find the salaries there pretty solid, even for local hires (so long as you’re from a western country working in a professional field). Oman, now there’s somewhere I’d like to try living for a while. How was it? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

Take a look at http://www.expat.or.id/ for some general information. Plus some comments below. Roger, Jakarta I’m currently considering marrying an Indonesian woman and living with her in Indonesia. I’m an internet programmer by past profession (although I could do other computer-related activities) and was wondering 1. about the possibility of finding worthwhile employment in Indonesia (is there any work for computer professionals, and at what salary?); at the moment, I don’t speak a word of Indonesian, although I would learn.

Tough. Local rates are low as other people said. 2. the cost of moving to Indonesia, and my status after marrying my fiancee. Would I have Indonesian citizenship?

No. Very hard to get, and rarely wanted. You will have enough trouble getting a residence permit without a job, though there is some kind of long term social visit visa (maybe 6 months?) which may be applicable if you are married to an Indonesian – your local Indonesia Embassy can advise. You have to get a job to get a working permit (KITAS/KIMS – expensive and bureaucratic process). Tourist and business visas allow 60 day visits, not extendable. For a business visa you need an invitation from a local company. 3. whether telecommuting is a practical proposition – ideally working in Indonesia and getting paid Western wages

Good luck. On the plus side you can get good connections (ADSL etc) in Jakarta, but generally not elsewhere. And computers are cheap enough.  But can you get such a job? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I currently have about $10k in capital and would very much like to live in Indonesia – unfortunately the downturn in tourism means that any business in this area would surely fail….

Response:

Yep, Iran (1979), Saudi (1980-81), Oman (1985-1993).  I’m vaguely thinking about going back to Saudi–see separate post by me.  Old expats never die, they just keep looking for contracts!  (I’m currently in the States.) — Sharon B. To email, replace ‘notreal’ with ’sabarr’ in heading email address

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I lived and worked in Indonesia for 5 years, returning in May this year due to a lack of work opportunities there. You may find the following useful. 1. There is little work for expatriate (Western) IT professionals as there are plenty of competent Indonesians that would be delighted to work for one tenth of what you would expect for a day’s work. Indonesian IT pro’s will be paid between Rp.3,000,000 (US$120) and Rp.10,000,000 (US$400) per MONTH not per day, as in the West!! Most IT (and any other work) will require you to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian Language). Outside Jakarta there is little English spoken. You should also be aware that in addition to the National Language, there are around 300 local languages and dialects. I would be surprised if your fianc

Question:

I would love to marry an accountant.

Response:

I would love to marry an accountant.

How’s that? You’d like surprise counts of the houskeeping money, keeping the accounts and preparing them for audit, preparing the annual budget, reconciling bank accounts, obtaining balance confirmations from household suppliers, making countless cups of coffee for audit staff, being adequately acquainted with GAAP as regards household accounts, conducting the annual inventory, preparing your husband’s tax declarations, querying you husband’s bills for entertaining ‘Fifi’ at exotic nightspots, etc? — Roger Standing AROC Financial Performance Measurement http://mypage.bluewindow.ch/aroc

Response:

I would love to marry an accountant.

Speak of disclosure! — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Perfesser’s nauseating puns:  ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/ts/tspun22.zip

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Well if you are young and anticipate an inheritance,  just keep in mind that accountants never die they merely fail to balance.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would love to marry an accountant.

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Yes, and where’s the independence? Franklynn Peterson, Editor CPA Computer Report newsletter http://www.cpacomputerreport.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well if you are young and anticipate an inheritance,  just keep in mind that accountants never die they merely fail to balance. I would love to marry an accountant.

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Question:

Hi, If there is someone who could answer the question on the actual practical work that needs to be done in running a company this would be helpful. I have searched the ASIC and found some good information covering corporations law. It mentions things like General Journals, adequate records and recording of information, which is fine and well. How do you use these? Is there a hands on practical book that explains this? – the ins and outs of running and meeting your legal obligations? cheers chun

Chun, There are plenty of books, however if you are starting a business you will not have the time to read them.  If you want to succeed, you need these skills immediately.  If you don’t have them yourself, you need to avail yourself of people who do have them – either through partnerships, associations, or just plain hiring them. A newsgroup such as this can give you a few hints, answer a question or two, and maybe give you a little encouragement, but that is about all. If you have some specific questions, please ask them, but please keep reality in mind and don’t expect too much. — Jim Hudspeth, CPA – http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html – Washington, USA Associate Member, Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Response:

How do you use these? Is there a hands on practical book that explains this? – the ins and outs of running and meeting your legal obligations?

I think Jim’s point is important to remember–the biggest thing involved in running your own business is the incredible number of things you have to juggle concurrently and the whole operation is one massive compromise <grin at least until you get to the size where you can hire people full time to take care of all of the specialized issues. So the issue is to creatively acquire the help you need.  While books are nice, they don’t respond well when you try and ask a clarifying question and won’t evaluate if you actually did it right.  So for some items you may need to go out and obtain professional advice, both to save you time (which you then are able to use to do something that will add to the bottom line) and keep down problems in the future. However, you aren’t in a financial position, most likely, to grant carte blanche to such advisers–so you’ll need to utilize them for the key points and/or perhaps use some more creative aspects (such as trading your service for theirs if it works for both of you) to get things done. But I do think it’s important to get tax and legal advice on board if for no other reason than to serve as a safety net to check with at least annually.  I would probably suggest leaning towards those who are actually in business for themselves or are owners in very small firms, since they will have a much more practical understanding of the issues you are facing (and heck, they might be a good sounding board for issues unrelated to their professional background–you can cry on each other’s shoulders <grin).   Those working for a large organization may have attended lots of "conferences" and "workshops" on the problems of the small businessman, but that’s a world apart from actually having to worry about having the funds to meet a payroll, pay suppliers, find the next client, etc. Additionally, you will find that during your networking (remember, that something you do as part of the marketing <grin) you’ll also run across some information that may be of use to you.

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Hi, boy are you in deep there are a whole raft of things a company has to be up with Good advice has been given, listen to it ASIC? There is an ASIC in australia, if in the USA they may also offer leaflets as to the duties of company directors This is in addition to the accounting and tax requirements, Corp Law is a big one, looks easy but know its application to your requirements – compliance. Peter Australia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, If there is someone who could answer the question on the actual practical work that needs to be done in running a company this would be helpful. I have searched the ASIC and found some good information covering corporations law. It mentions things like General Journals, adequate records and recording of information, which is fine and well. How do you use these? Is there a hands on practical book that explains this? – the ins and outs of running and meeting your legal obligations? cheers chun

Response:

Question:

<snip Hey ! Because of a grossly discriminatory law ( an interesting anamoly, in a nation of immigrants ), I have zero shot at the Presidency. So, that’s it, I will have to go for Prime Minister. The only problem is, which of the five parties will I use ? The Bloc Quebecois are right out, as they only run in Quebec ( around 75 out of 300 seats in Commons ), so I can’t win a general election there. The NDP ( Not Destined for Power ) are kinda moribund, the Tories are more so, and the Reformers don’t even know what their name is going to be. And, the Liberals, *ain’t*.

You’re forgetting about the Greens, Andre!  8% of the vote in BC and growing!  I think we form a Green-Rhino coalition and we’ve got 24 Sussex Drive in the bag. And, I’m sexier than Gore ( I have references ), and, unlike Bush ( Shrub ) I know where many of the nations that have dealings with the US actually *are*. Gotta watch out for those Maine Texans…

Paint drying is sexier than Gore.  I’m afraid you’ll have to do better than than for my vote. Andre

JW

Response:

<snip Hey ! Because of a grossly discriminatory law ( an interesting anamoly, in a nation of immigrants ), I have zero shot at the Presidency. So, that’s it, I will have to go for Prime Minister. The only problem is, which of the five parties will I use ? The Bloc Quebecois are right out, as they only run in Quebec ( around 75 out of 300 seats in Commons ), so I can’t win a general election there. The NDP ( Not Destined for Power ) are kinda moribund, the Tories are more so, and the Reformers don’t even know what their name is going to be. And, the Liberals, *ain’t*. You’re forgetting about the Greens, Andre!  8% of the vote in BC and growing!  I think we form a Green-Rhino coalition and we’ve got 24 Sussex Drive in the bag.

Fair enough. Whenever I’ve had the opportunity to vote Rhino, I have. But, does that mean that I will have to share the Prime Ministry ? I’m not sure how my s/o will like that. <g And, I’m sexier than Gore ( I have references ), and, unlike Bush ( Shrub ) I know where many of the nations that have dealings with the US actually *are*. Gotta watch out for those Maine Texans… Paint drying is sexier than Gore.  I’m afraid you’ll have to do better than than for my vote.

Well, that’s who I had available, to compare to. Were the candidates sexier, I betcha that I could still beat ‘em. But, for a reference for that, I may have to ask my s/o to take a few minutes at the school where she teaches ( and, just today, came up with a brilliant method to ensure that her students couldn’t cheat, when correcting multiple choice quizzes. Definitely Sec Ed material, from where I sit ). So, what would I have to do, bed Tipper ? Andre JW

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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hiya Ziggy,     I think Al Gore did a recent "flip" as far as fathers are concerned.  -  I guess he realized that dads and men in general make up a large portion of the voting population.

I must have missed it – can you point me to where he may have voiced support for fatherhood? (I know that he supports the "Fathers Count Act", but based on his comments at the NFI gathering, he seems to support it as a weapon to be used against fathers who are unable to economically support their children –  the right thing for the wrong reason. I am happy to see any support for this bill, though.) He has provided *numerous* times the stupid terminology "dead-beat dads". Use of this term in a political context is not helpful to these issues, it is merely inflammatory demagoguery. Gore has shown that he is perfectly willing to color outside of the lines in order to attempt to jumpstart his lackluster campaign. (Gosh, for a nation of 240 million people *this* is the best we could do for presidential candidates? Geeze.) Overall, his comments as published in the Massachusetts Times show a complete disregard for the value of fatherhood. The issue that many fathers face is that the government and society work actively and passively *against* any inclination that divorced or separated fathers would have to be involved with thier children. The comment about showing "respect" for the children’s mother was particularly ironic – NCP parents are catagorically shown an utter lack of respect by the instruments of government – many parents who faithfully pay child support find themselves harrassed by support collection agancies nonetheless (the stories are astounding) and "visitation rights" are generally ignored by the courts and police. Hell, "respect"? Most fatheres would settle for basic civility and some recogition of their existing *legal* rights, never mind parenting rights. So, f*ck Al Gore and his gang of father-hating scum. But let him screw up his own damn kids, meanwhile I’ll fight the battle for *my* kids, regardless of what I have to do. There – blew off some steam. Feels good. I am, BTW, nominating my ASD good friend Donna T for president, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she could do a more respectable job then these clowns. Fido

Response:

I am, BTW, nominating my ASD good friend Donna T for president, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she could do a more respectable job then these clowns.

Oh, so *she* gets the presidency, and all I get is some lousy nomination for NYS senator?  Hrmmmmph.                    |Kathy Litherland | People make their own history, but No hacemos el amor;|Dept. of Anthro  | they do not make it under El nos hace        |U. of Illinois   | circumstances of their own choosing

Response:

In article I am, BTW, nominating my ASD good friend Donna T for president, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she could do a more respectable job then these clowns. Oh, so *she* gets the presidency, and all I get is some lousy nomination for NYS senator?  Hrmmmmph.

Umm, I promised her the job. Best – Fido               |Kathy Litherland | People make their own history, but No hacemos el amor;|Dept. of Anthro  | they do not make it under El nos hace        |U. of Illinois   | circumstances of their own choosing

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I am, BTW, nominating my ASD good friend Donna T for president, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she could do a more respectable job then these clowns. Oh, so *she* gets the presidency, and all I get is some lousy nomination for NYS senator?  Hrmmmmph.

Hey ! Because of a grossly discriminatory law ( an interesting anamoly, in a nation of immigrants ), I have zero shot at the Presidency. So, that’s it, I will have to go for Prime Minister. The only problem is, which of the five parties will I use ? The Bloc Quebecois are right out, as they only run in Quebec ( around 75 out of 300 seats in Commons ), so I can’t win a general election there. The NDP ( Not Destined for Power ) are kinda moribund, the Tories are more so, and the Reformers don’t even know what their name is going to be. And, the Liberals, *ain’t*. And, I’m sexier than Gore ( I have references ), and, unlike Bush ( Shrub ) I know where many of the nations that have dealings with the US actually *are*. Gotta watch out for those Maine Texans…               |Kathy Litherland | People make their own history, but No hacemos el amor;|Dept. of Anthro  | they do not make it under El nos hace        |U. of Illinois   | circumstances of their own choosing

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

    I think Al Gore did a recent "flip" as far as fathers are oncerned.  -  I guess he realized that dads and men in general make up a large portion of the voting population.

One can hope… <g     IMHO,  CS payments should be made to a central controlling agency (and I don’t even like the sound of that)

I’ve read over your proposal, and while I will admit that I am not as well versed in this area as some ( as it wasn’t any part of my divorce ), I do have some research and thoughts to play with. In general, I would prefer to keep the bureaucrats out of it, wherever possible, so if you have a situation where the couple has a working court order, or a working agreement, then I’d say, leave the central body *out*. They will only add to complexity, and paperwork, in which deals can be fubared. Plus, monies sent to be processed to such a body, will take *longer* to get to their intended place. Proving general expenses, day to day, would be very time consuming, and people, especially divorced parents haven’t got enough of that commodity. So, I’d go with a CS level determined by setting an annual budget, taking into account such things as the difference between a one and a two bedroom place, at the place where the CS recipient is living ( often, the difference is relatively paltry ), if there is one child, for example. Beyond that, I am not in favour of forcing a parent to hold, or give, monies to an adult child. No married parent can be forced to do that, and this provision, IMHO, discriminates against a divorced parent. If one, or both, parents wish to fund a post secondary education for their 18 year old, that ought to remain their *choice*. No one elses. Proportional expensing can easily run into great problems, with growing children, who go through a lot more clothing, in a shorter span of time, than do most adults. So, expenses there would have to run along another track. An annual budget could better deal with this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         1.  …where the money is doled out to the parent who is awarded payment, after expense vouchers are submitted to prove the money was spent on the children.         2.    The child support award money should be put in a interest drawing escrow account.         3.    Any money not used in any month would be held in this account to be available for a time when expenses are greater in one month as against another.                 Any monies left over over the length of time it takes for a child to reach 18 would be used to further their education. If the child does not choose to go to college, or vocational school, then the money would be given to them as a "stake" in whatever direction they choose to go (since the money should belong to them anyhow).         4.    A fair "lodging" amount can be determined for the child/children’s "room" expense to be applied to the monthly rental and proportionate maintenance expense of an apartment or house.         5.    The same as above can be determined for the child/children’s "board" expenses (food, clothing, and such…)     This plan can be "fleshed out" to eliminate the usual complaint of the other spouse spending child support payments on their private expenses and not on the children.  The time spent doing "parenting" resposibilities would not be compensated for.  Being a parent is rewarding enough if the offspring become a credit to the parents.  If not, then reflect on the things you did wrong.

Yep, no CS ought to be there to " compensate " the CS recipient for parenting the kids. As for spending CS on themselves… if there is the proper amount of money budgeted for the child’s needs, then thihs would not really be much of a problem, as it could be reduced to, I’ll take a fiver from here, and put it back, the next time I go to Safeways. I’m less concerned about the accounting, then I am about the results. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Can our readers add responsible additions to this plan?  I’m sure they can.  Let’s hear it. I have always wondered if there is such a thing a a dead beat mother who has been ordered to pay child support to her X and children because she left and earns more oney yet refuses to pay?  (I am female so this is NOT agains mothers or fathers) Read Sanford Braver’s " Divorced Dads ", he has a ton of studies in there that address exactly this, among other things. Overall, that’s the best book about the true state of divorce that I have ever read. With a look to my bookshelves, and my local library, I could suggest a comprehensive reading list. There are deadbeat moms, and many of them do the same as the dads that fail their kids, both in CS, as well as parenting. I feel who ever has the most income should be the one to pay the child support. Not necessarily. The best would be for a presumed 50/50 arrangement, with the courts sanctioning whoever tries to sabotage it. That would make most CS deals unnecessary. As each parent would pay for what they expend, while the child is with them, and the court orders, done right, would cover long term costs, such as school, and the like. What is, a dad has his two kids, and he makes $60k, while the ex makes $35k ? As he makes more, is she off the hook to support *her* kids, just ’cause she makes less then him ? Why ought her lesser paystubs stick him with the full costs of raising *their* kids ?

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

    Eloquently said FIDO.  I’m behind you 100%

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al Gore is a moron. Well, he is or isn’t, but these statements are moronic. Just a classic case of a liberal democrate bowing down to the women’s movement and their unsubstantiated figures they throw around. Sure – 51% of the voters are women. Hey, gotta get elected, you know. In Maine, our Governor shows his strongest support among women, something like 74% support – he says the strangest things to shore up that constituency. Polioticians may be great politicians – but that doesn’t necessarily translate into great lawmakers. But, that’s the system we got. I realize ALOT of fathers don’t pay support. And they should get what is coming to them. Agreed. But, the majority of fathers do pay their child support. But Gore and his gang portray pretty much all fathers of divorced familys as dead-beat-dads. Ignoring the real numbers. Inflating them to get votes. I’m a single full-time dad. My ex-wife has’nt paid me a dime of what she owes me in support for going on 6 months now. She is too busy being the "party-girl" to give her daughter any kind of involvement much less any kind of financial support. I am so sick of hearing about it being ONLY the fathers. And the politics is highlighted by that point – fathers pay a greater percentage of thier child support then mother who are required to pay child support. But Gore continues to use the inflammatory term "dead beat *dad*", while at the same time ignoring the larger and more significant issue of fatherlessness in the lives of *many* children. The present social programs provide not one whit of assistance for fathers who want to be more involved in thier childrens’ lives – instead, as many of us know – works to drive the father *out* of his children’s lives. The massive failure of this social initiative has not been address by those who make social policy – instaed they are happy to blame the wholesale social failure of these programs on those fathers themselves. Absurd, but unless the government recognizes that the family is a social unit better then any social program that might be created by government – instead, the government is happy to try to *replace* the father with expensive social programs. As a father who has made extraordinary sacrifices to stay closely involved with the lives of his children under difficult circumstances, I understand this process too well. And I also understand the many fathers who just give up on thier children, rather then continue to battle against the social "war against fathers" which drives them out of the lives of thier children. This is not a social system that works well, and no amount of social policy will replace, for many children, the benefits of having both parents involved in thier upbringing. Our "social scientists" refuse to recognize that fact, do not see the simple things that can be done to encourage the involvement of the father, and instead perpetuate the system that requires fathers to only be paychecks to thier children. A parent is a parent. Mother or Father. They BOTH should contribute to the well being of the child. Financially and emotionally. Yes, but social scientists do not consider anything other then the economic crisis that those very same social scientists have created. And rather then changing policies to support and encourage those fathers who do want to be involved in the lives of thier children (and there are good arguments that emotional involvement of the father is *much* more important then any incremental economic benefit to the children) they crank up the policies that continue to drive fathers out of the lives of the children. These policies will not, in the long term or short term, work. The contradiction that is created can be seen clearly in the social worker community – the problems of fatherlessness are almost universally recognized. And the system and policies that work in a hostile manner *against* father is perpetuated. Somehow, the connection between the two has not, on a wholesale level, been made. I have posted here about the *denial* that the social professions are in about this issue. My ex does neither. Just another case of a democrat kissing the rear end of a movement that regards the fathers involvement in his childrens lives as detrimental anyway. Married or divorced. They really don’t give a damn about the kids – they are just happy to hump the provocative "dead-beat dad" myth, bemoaning fatherlessness, while working actively to drive fathers out of the lives of thier children. I’ve been doing this long enough so that I have heard and lived thier lies too long. To hell with them, I will do it myself. Gore and his pals can continue their big circle jerk, and screwing up the lives of children. Best – Fido

Response:

Excerpted from the Washington Time, 03 JUN 00 p. A4 From the guy who "invented the internet". A good reason for requiring

intellegence tests of anyone who offers to run for President. This long-time democrat has finally given up on that party. GORE FAVORS FORCING DADS INTO SUPPORTING by Cheryl Wetzstein Vice President Al Gore yesterday told a national fatherhood summit that he would boost child support enforcement as the "next step in welfare reform" if he is elected president. We’ve been requiring work and support of the mothers; let’s require it of the fathers," he told the National Fatherhood Initiative’s third summit. He said he would urge credit card companies "to deny credit to any parent who owes a substantial amount of child support." "Deadbeat dads should pay what they owe to their children, or they will leave home without it," he said parodying the American Express credit-card ad. Mr. Gore also pledged that all federally funded fatherhood programs would be required to have provisions to stem domestic violence. He said, "every father needs to understand that being a dad means respecting the mother of your children." When the vice-president that "only one in four parents who owe child support actually pays that child support," an unidentified man in the audience yelled "That’s a lie." Federal data shows that "70% of fathers pay child support," the man said. Gore joked about whether the heckler "was on the program later" and repeated his data, clarifying that he was "not talking about those who have court orders being enforced against them."

Response:

Al Gore is a moron. Just a classic case of a liberal democrate bowing down to the women’s movement and their unsubstantiated figures they throw around. I realize ALOT of fathers don’t pay support. And they should get what is coming to them. But Gore and his gang portray pretty much all fathers of divorced familys as dead-beat-dads. Ignoring the real numbers. Inflating them to get votes. I’m a single full-time dad. My ex-wife has’nt paid me a dime of what she owes me in support for going on 6 months now. She is too busy being the "party-girl" to give her daughter any kind of involvement much less any kind of financial support. I am so sick of hearing about it being ONLY the fathers. A parent is a parent. Mother or Father. They BOTH should contribute to the well being of the child. Financially and emotionally. My ex does neither. Just another case of a democrat kissing the rear end of a movement that regards the fathers involvement in his childrens lives as detrimental anyway. Married or divorced.

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 Personally I’ve always believed that vice presidents were picked to insure the pres wouldn’t be killed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excerpted from the Washington Time, 03 JUN 00 p. A4 From the guy who "invented the internet". A good reason for requiring intellegence tests of anyone who offers to run for President. This long-time democrat has finally given up on that party. GORE FAVORS FORCING DADS INTO SUPPORTING by Cheryl Wetzstein Vice President Al Gore yesterday told a national fatherhood summit that he would boost child support enforcement as the "next step in welfare reform" if he is elected president. We’ve been requiring work and support of the mothers; let’s require it of the fathers," he told the National Fatherhood Initiative’s third summit. He said he would urge credit card companies "to deny credit to any parent who owes a substantial amount of child support." "Deadbeat dads should pay what they owe to their children, or they will leave home without it," he said parodying the American Express credit-card ad. Mr. Gore also pledged that all federally funded fatherhood programs would be required to have provisions to stem domestic violence. He said, "every father needs to understand that being a dad means respecting the mother of your children." When the vice-president that "only one in four parents who owe child support actually pays that child support," an unidentified man in the audience yelled "That’s a lie." Federal data shows that "70% of fathers pay child support," the man said. Gore joked about whether the heckler "was on the program later" and repeated his data, clarifying that he was "not talking about those who have court orders being enforced against them."

– "Don’t spit into the well, you may have to drink the water"        old Polish proverb ICQ# 35013944

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I have always wondered if there is such a thing a a dead beat mother who has been ordered to pay child support to her X and children because she left and earns more oney yet refuses to pay?  (I am female so this is NOT agains mothers or fathers) I feel who ever has the most income should be the one to pay the child suport .

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I feel who ever has the most income should be the one to pay the child suport .

Child support should be rare. Try sharing your "toys" instead. Then take responsibilty for them when you have them. Child support is just the flip side of saying "We will kidnap your children."

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Al Gore is a moron.

Well, he is or isn’t, but these statements are moronic. Just a classic case of a liberal democrate bowing down to the women’s movement and their unsubstantiated figures they throw around.

Sure – 51% of the voters are women. Hey, gotta get elected, you know. In Maine, our Governor shows his strongest support among women, something like 74% support – he says the strangest things to shore up that constituency. Polioticians may be great politicians – but that doesn’t necessarily translate into great lawmakers. But, that’s the system we got. I realize ALOT of fathers don’t pay support. And they should get what is coming to them.

Agreed. But, the majority of fathers do pay their child support. But Gore and his gang portray pretty much all fathers of divorced familys as dead-beat-dads. Ignoring the real numbers. Inflating them to get votes. I’m a single full-time dad. My ex-wife has’nt paid me a dime of what she owes me in support for going on 6 months now. She is too busy being the "party-girl" to give her daughter any kind of involvement much less any kind of financial support. I am so sick of hearing about it being ONLY the fathers.

And the politics is highlighted by that point – fathers pay a greater percentage of thier child support then mother who are required to pay child support. But Gore continues to use the inflammatory term "dead beat *dad*", while at the same time ignoring the larger and more significant issue of fatherlessness in the lives of *many* children. The present social programs provide not one whit of assistance for fathers who want to be more involved in thier childrens’ lives – instead, as many of us know – works to drive the father *out* of his children’s lives. The massive failure of this social initiative has not been address by those who make social policy – instaed they are happy to blame the wholesale social failure of these programs on those fathers themselves. Absurd, but unless the government recognizes that the family is a social unit better then any social program that might be created by government – instead, the government is happy to try to *replace* the father with expensive social programs. As a father who has made extraordinary sacrifices to stay closely involved with the lives of his children under difficult circumstances, I understand this process too well. And I also understand the many fathers who just give up on thier children, rather then continue to battle against the social "war against fathers" which drives them out of the lives of thier children. This is not a social system that works well, and no amount of social policy will replace, for many children, the benefits of having both parents involved in thier upbringing. Our "social scientists" refuse to recognize that fact, do not see the simple things that can be done to encourage the involvement of the father, and instead perpetuate the system that requires fathers to only be paychecks to thier children. A parent is a parent. Mother or Father. They BOTH should contribute to the well being of the child. Financially and emotionally.

Yes, but social scientists do not consider anything other then the economic crisis that those very same social scientists have created. And rather then changing policies to support and encourage those fathers who do want to be involved in the lives of thier children (and there are good arguments that emotional involvement of the father is *much* more important then any incremental economic benefit to the children) they crank up the policies that continue to drive fathers out of the lives of the children. These policies will not, in the long term or short term, work. The contradiction that is created can be seen clearly in the social worker community – the problems of fatherlessness are almost universally recognized. And the system and policies that work in a hostile manner *against* father is perpetuated. Somehow, the connection between the two has not, on a wholesale level, been made. I have posted here about the *denial* that the social professions are in about this issue. My ex does neither. Just another case of a democrat kissing the rear end of a movement that regards the fathers involvement in his childrens lives as detrimental anyway. Married or divorced.

They really don’t give a damn about the kids – they are just happy to hump the provocative "dead-beat dad" myth, bemoaning fatherlessness, while working actively to drive fathers out of the lives of thier children. I’ve been doing this long enough so that I have heard and lived thier lies too long. To hell with them, I will do it myself. Gore and his pals can continue their big circle jerk, and screwing up the lives of children. Best – Fido

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I have always wondered if there is such a thing a a dead beat mother who has been ordered to pay child support to her X and children because she left and earns more oney yet refuses to pay?  (I am female so this is NOT agains mothers or fathers)

Read Sanford Braver’s " Divorced Dads ", he has a ton of studies in there that address exactly this, among other things. Overall, that’s the best book about the true state of divorce that I have ever read. With a look to my bookshelves, and my local library, I could suggest a comprehensive reading list. There are deadbeat moms, and many of them do the same as the dads that fail their kids, both in CS, as well as parenting. I feel who ever has the most income should be the one to pay the child support.

Not necessarily. The best would be for a presumed 50/50 arrangement, with the courts sanctioning whoever tries to sabotage it. That would make most CS deals unnecessary. As each parent would pay for what they expend, while the child is with them, and the court orders, done right, would cover long term costs, such as school, and the like. What is, a dad has his two kids, and he makes $60k, while the ex makes $35k ? As he makes more, is she off the hook to support *her* kids, just ’cause she makes less then him ? Why ought her lesser paystubs stick him with the full costs of raising *their* kids ? Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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    I think Al Gore did a recent "flip" as far as fathers are oncerned.  -  I guess he realized that dads and men in general make up a large portion of the voting population.     IMHO,  CS payments should be made to a central controlling agency (and I don’t even like the sound of that)         1.  …where the money is doled out to the parent who is awarded payment, after expense vouchers are submitted to prove the money was spent on the children.         2.    The child support award money should be put in a interest drawing escrow account.         3.    Any money not used in any month would be held in this account to be available for a time when expenses are greater in one month as against another.                 Any monies left over over the length of time it takes for a child to reach 18 would be used to further their education. If the child does not choose to go to college, or vocational school, then the money would be given to them as a "stake" in whatever direction they choose to go (since the money should belong to them anyhow).         4.    A fair "lodging" amount can be determined for the child/children’s "room" expense to be applied to the monthly rental and proportionate maintenance expense of an apartment or house.         5.    The same as above can be determined for the child/children’s "board" expenses (food, clothing, and such…)     This plan can be "fleshed out" to eliminate the usual complaint of the other spouse spending child support payments on their private expenses and not on the children.  The time spent doing "parenting" resposibilities would not be compensated for.  Being a parent is rewarding enough if the offspring become a credit to the parents.  If not, then reflect on the things you did wrong.     Can our readers add responsible additions to this plan?  I’m sure they can.  Let’s hear it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have always wondered if there is such a thing a a dead beat mother who has been ordered to pay child support to her X and children because she left and earns more oney yet refuses to pay?  (I am female so this is NOT agains mothers or fathers) Read Sanford Braver’s " Divorced Dads ", he has a ton of studies in there that address exactly this, among other things. Overall, that’s the best book about the true state of divorce that I have ever read. With a look to my bookshelves, and my local library, I could suggest a comprehensive reading list. There are deadbeat moms, and many of them do the same as the dads that fail their kids, both in CS, as well as parenting. I feel who ever has the most income should be the one to pay the child support. Not necessarily. The best would be for a presumed 50/50 arrangement, with the courts sanctioning whoever tries to sabotage it. That would make most CS deals unnecessary. As each parent would pay for what they expend, while the child is with them, and the court orders, done right, would cover long term costs, such as school, and the like. What is, a dad has his two kids, and he makes $60k, while the ex makes $35k ? As he makes more, is she off the hook to support *her* kids, just ’cause she makes less then him ? Why ought her lesser paystubs stick him with the full costs of raising *their* kids ? Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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Question:

Youmight have noticed that, almost exclusively, in the Lake Tahoe/Reno area few men are hired at all. Most HR departments are run by feminists who will go to extremes to avoid men. I recently applied to several construction firms.( I have many, many years of construction experience and a bs in Accounting.  Money was not a factor as I have other income, but I wanted work in a field I was good at. Every situation I was rejected in favor of a very young girl from the local college who had no experience as all. When I helped, as a consultant, for one firm it blew me away that this girl with a degree in Accounting and a CPA, had NEVER heard of WIP and didn’t know how to compute it!!! I laughed all the way home. Since her hiring the company has suffered several setbacks financially, of course. Yes there are too many accountants, and they are for the most part call "bookkeepers"……blame that on the quality of education and lack of professional pride in the current world. I have become a consultant, doing very well, assisting bankrupt or near bankrupt companies to recover after disasterous CPA’s and accountants. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In a more serious note, a change of careers might be the most pleasant option. (I know I’ve been thinking about it lately.) I’ve noticed that there IS a world wide glut of accountants.  I’ve been looking for a job in accounting for the last four years, and I’ve gotten very few interviews.  Worst case so far, a middling job in the Sierra ski country, the announcement drew 900 resumes.  ( Most places I’ve applied have drawn a minumum of thirty resumes from qualified applicants, while most good positions draw a hundred.) Lately, I’ve been thinking quite seriously of going into something else. Good luck Ronald L. Todd, MBA, CPA How about sheep dipping? Simon Paskin I qualified as an accountant 11 years ago, then gave it up to fight the poll tax, then found it difficult to get work again.  The last few years I’ve managed to find book-keeping work, but I’ve never got paid more than

Question:

Actually, the IRS website (www.irs.gov) has good information about setting up a new business. Here’s a few easy tips that may or may not be common sense: 1)  Keep and organize receipts for EVERYTHING relating to the business.  All business related purchases should be paid for by check or credit card if at all possible.  Same goes for income.  She’ll probably be dealing with a lot of cash.  She needs to have a receipt book with copies so that all income is recorded.  And yes, she will need to pay sales tax to the state and make deposits on a regular basis. 2)  If you are going to be driving the RV to crafts shows etc. be sure and keep track of your mileage AND your receipts for fuel etc.  At the end of the year, you will take your deduction based on which one is bigger (for an RV it will probably be the fuel). 3)  The materials (paper, etc.) are expenses.  The RV is an asset and must be depreciated over a period of time, no less than 3 years. 4)  All of these deductions and depreciation can only be taken to the extent of her businesses income.  In other words, if she comes out with a net loss the first year or two (not unusual for a new business) she will only be able to net out tax wise at zero.  Any deductions she can’t take can be carried over to the next year. 5)  She will have to turn a taxable profit within 5 years (at least that’s what it used to be) or this venture could all be designated a "hobby" by the IRS. Good luck, Paula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear  NewsGroup, My wife has opened a NEW business this year. And as yet has had no contracts or income from this business.  She is doing a small show in a few weeks. I am not too sure what kind of sales to expect. It is a business related to Paper Arts such as Card Design, Decorative Boxes and Contract Calligraphy. She has been buying supplies and tools (for a couple of years).  In addition, we obtained a 30-foot travel trailer to use as a studio.  We got it at a modest price (it was "a little rough") and since spent about a total of $3000 +/- fixing it up. We have plenty of room for RV parking at our house, so rent to park will not be an issue.  This will become a permanently parked, mobile home/office/studio and used exclusively as a studio.  With no cost except power after the upgrades are complete. A couple of questions please. How to we account for the cost of the studio construction?  One time or a short depreciation or? And as far as the supplies, tools and seminars (training)?  How do we account for them?  After all, the supplies are consumables like paper and ink and such? I thank you all in advance for you input,  I have a few questions of my own regarding my new business, but first things first.. Michael McBade (for) Studio "D"

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Dear Vernon…Thank you for the response….  Yes we are in the US… state of CA,  In the past, we have relied on TurboTax to file…I apologize for sounding like a newbie… I just didn’t think that if I wrote a book, that people would be interested… Let’s try a few baby steps and if it gets too complicated, then…..TIA, Michael

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I strongly recommend that you consult a professional accountant. Sounds like you’re starting from near-scratch in terms of tax and accounting knowledge.  There’s lots more to discuss than I’m willing to attempt in email or a newsgroup, and you haven’t provided nearly enough information.  First question: should we assume you’re in the U.S.? michael mcbade wrote … How to we account for the cost of the studio construction?  One time or a short depreciation or? And as far as the supplies, tools and seminars (training)?  How do we account for them?  After all, the supplies are consumables like paper and ink and such?

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I am a new user to these groups also, and am not sure if sometimes us "newbie’s" are answered. Anyway, first I would like ask a few "starting" questions. Have you set up the company with a business license? Tax ID#, with the state etc? Are you considered a joint venture, partnership, corporation, etc.? Vernon is correct in that you should seek an accountant, however, if you choose to try it on your own at first or can’t afford the cost at the moment, you can do it on your own.  It just takes patience and caution. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Dear  NewsGroup, My wife has opened a NEW business this year. And as yet has had no contracts or income from this business.  She is doing a small show in a few weeks.  I am not too sure what kind of sales to expect. It is a business related to Paper Arts such as Card Design, Decorative Boxes and Contract Calligraphy. She has been buying supplies and tools (for a couple of years).  In addition, we obtained a 30-foot travel trailer to use as a studio.  We got it at a modest price (it was "a little rough") and since spent about a total of $3000 +/- fixing it up. We have plenty of room for RV parking at our house, so rent to park will not be an issue.  This will become a permanently parked, mobile home/office/studio and used exclusively as a studio.  With no cost except power after the upgrades are complete. A couple of questions please. How to we account for the cost of the studio construction?  One time or a short depreciation or? And as far as the supplies, tools and seminars (training)?  How do we account for them?  After all, the supplies are consumables like paper and ink and such? I thank you all in advance for you input,  I have a few questions of my own regarding my new business, but first things first.. Michael McBade (for) Studio "D"

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I strongly recommend that you consult a professional accountant. Sounds like you’re starting from near-scratch in terms of tax and accounting knowledge.  There’s lots more to discuss than I’m willing to attempt in email or a newsgroup, and you haven’t provided nearly enough information.  First question: should we assume you’re in the U.S.? michael mcbade wrote … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How to we account for the cost of the studio construction?  One time or a short depreciation or? And as far as the supplies, tools and seminars (training)?  How do we account for them?  After all, the supplies are consumables like paper and ink and such?

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Question:

obl…@my-deja.com wrote: > As everyone knows, all the different European currencies will soon be > replaced by a single currency, the Euro.

    This post too, has been "liberated, saved, furloughed".  <laugh>  Thank you for sharing it.  I haven’t seen this before.  Is it an "original"?  Jae —    "Tenderness and kindness are not signs of weakness and despair…….                  But manifestations of strength and resolution."                                          Kahlil Gibran

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Oh GED, Eurekillin me! Hey, maybe they can buy the rights to the song titled "Eurine The Money"! Maria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -obl…@my-deja.com wrote: > As everyone knows, all the different European currencies will soon be > replaced by a single currency, the Euro. It is now fairly common > knowledge also, that following a recent meeting of Eurocrats in > Brussels, it has been decided that the smallest unit of this new > currency, equivalent to the US cent, will be called a Eurine. The > process is now quite advanced, since while politicians still quarrel > over the final details, first issues of the new coin (known as Eurine > Samples) are already being minted as future collectors’ items, so it > might not be amiss to introduce readers to some likely additions to > English vocabulary necessitated by the new currency. > First of all, it is obvious that certain idiomatic expressions will have > to be changed. British people accustomed to using phrases like "in for > a penny, in for a pound", will now have to get used to saying "in for a > Eurine, in for a Euro", to take one random example; just as French > tourists who might previously have said "I will be frank with you, > monsieur" will have to adjust to "I will be forty Eurines with you, > monsieur". These changes are unlikely to cause any great difficulty. > Slightly more problematic is the future fate of that great British > institution, the Bureau de Change, which previously made its money > changing the pounds of summer holidaymakers into pesetas: this will now > become the Bureau d’Euros, or possibly the Euro de No Change, depending > on the final decision of Thomas Cook management. Here are a few more > examples of likely additions to the British lexicon over the next few > years: > Eurinal: a financial institution, formerly known as a "bank". > EXAMPLE: I’m just popping to the eurinal – I got no money. > Eurocrat: a high-ranking person within European finance. Synonym: a > complete Banker. > to Eurinate (verb): to earn lots of Euros. > EXAMPLE: My boss is an inspiration to us all. I always want to eurinate > when I see him. > Eurigella: a bent Euro coin. > EXAMPLE: This coin won’t go into the machine. Looks like a Eurigella to > me. > Euro-surgeon: a very well-paid medical specialist. > Eur-eker: a person who is very careful about spending his/her Euros. > EXAMPLE: She never goes out anywhere. It’s not that she’s poor – she’s > just a eur-eker. > Europeein’ : pissing your Euros up the wall, like there was no tomorrow. > EXAMPLE: Sorry, he’s not in. He’s gone Europeein’ at the local pub. > Euripides: something to say to a person who habitually overcharges > people in Euros. > EXAMPLE: Euripides people off, didn’t you? > Eurov Euroka: phrase (in Russian) used by politicians when > questioned about the possible inclusion of the rouble in the single > European currency in the medium term. > (Translation not available) > Eurine for it now! : phrase used by company accountants to explain > the apparent loss of spending power following conversion of people’s > salaries into the new currency. > And finally… > Peurile: adjective used to refer to NG posts about Euros. > EXAMPLE: This is the most peurile post I’ve seen here for a long time. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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>Hey, maybe they can buy the rights to the song titled "Eurine The Money"! >Maria

Ohhhhh….good one, Maria !!!  LOL Hugs and Smiles, Gina "I sailed the ship all alone….. I never think I’ll make it home….."                         Kingsmen (Louie, Louie)                                

Response:

As everyone knows, all the different European currencies will soon be replaced by a single currency, the Euro. It is now fairly common knowledge also, that following a recent meeting of Eurocrats in Brussels, it has been decided that the smallest unit of this new currency, equivalent to the US cent, will be called a Eurine. The process is now quite advanced, since while politicians still quarrel over the final details, first issues of the new coin (known as Eurine Samples) are already being minted as future collectors’ items, so it might not be amiss to introduce readers to some likely additions to English vocabulary necessitated by the new currency. First of all, it is obvious that certain idiomatic expressions will have to be changed. British people accustomed to using phrases like "in for a penny, in for a pound", will now have to get used to saying "in for a Eurine, in for a Euro", to take one random example; just as French tourists who might previously have said "I will be frank with you, monsieur" will have to adjust to "I will be forty Eurines with you, monsieur". These changes are unlikely to cause any great difficulty. Slightly more problematic is the future fate of that great British institution, the Bureau de Change, which previously made its money changing the pounds of summer holidaymakers into pesetas: this will now become the Bureau d’Euros, or possibly the Euro de No Change, depending on the final decision of Thomas Cook management. Here are a few more examples of likely additions to the British lexicon over the next few years: Eurinal: a financial institution, formerly known as a "bank". EXAMPLE: I’m just popping to the eurinal – I got no money. Eurocrat: a high-ranking person within European finance. Synonym: a complete Banker. to Eurinate (verb): to earn lots of Euros. EXAMPLE: My boss is an inspiration to us all. I always want to eurinate when I see him. Eurigella: a bent Euro coin. EXAMPLE: This coin won’t go into the machine. Looks like a Eurigella to me. Euro-surgeon: a very well-paid medical specialist. Eur-eker: a person who is very careful about spending his/her Euros. EXAMPLE: She never goes out anywhere. It’s not that she’s poor – she’s just a eur-eker. Europeein’ : pissing your Euros up the wall, like there was no tomorrow. EXAMPLE: Sorry, he’s not in. He’s gone Europeein’ at the local pub. Euripides: something to say to a person who habitually overcharges people in Euros. EXAMPLE: Euripides people off, didn’t you? Eurov Euroka: phrase (in Russian) used by politicians when questioned about the possible inclusion of the rouble in the single European currency in the medium term. (Translation not available) Eurine for it now! : phrase used by company accountants to explain the apparent loss of spending power following conversion of people’s salaries into the new currency. And finally… Peurile: adjective used to refer to NG posts about Euros. EXAMPLE: This is the most peurile post I’ve seen here for a long time. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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