Question:

Hello I invite to them to know a little but the capital of the world Quito possesses the biggest historical center of Latin America keeps an enormous cultural and artistic heritage, In this sector there are located ten churches that are between the most beautiful colonial buildings of America, Also the museums that hoard transcendental masterpieces of the painting and colonial and modern sculpture, the Quito hotel are modern constructions that comes to be part of modern Quito http://www.in-quito.com

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and this has to do with accounting how? Que?

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Question:

The Myth of Longer Life But what about medical science?  Haven’t the breath-taking discoveries of the past century cured many of the worst diseases that beset mankind?  Do we not stand a much better chance of surviving illness today thanks to science? And aren’t we living longer as a result? The answer is profoundly shocking to anyone who takes it for granted that the billions we have spent on medical research have made a big difference to the incidence of disease and death. First, life expectancy at age 45 has barely changed since the beginning of this century. The statistical increase in life expectancy overall during that period has come about because there used to be a high incidence of disease and death in babies and children which has been eliminated by measures such as smaller families, better hygiene, birth in hospital instead of home, antibiotics, and health education. Most of these preventive factors were in place and fully effective 30 or 40 years ago. Their effect has been such that life expectancy at any age has not changed significantly in the past 20 years. Yet, in that 20 year period, Britain has spent around

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|And you think there are paramedics in an accounting newsgroup Actually there are, I was majoring in accounting when I took the paramedic course.  Paramedic pay is pretty bad and I mainly took the courses for treating injuries in the course of mountain climbing.   "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address.     —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

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|I need a paramedic’s expertise: So why post in Alt.accounting? |Would they be able to withstand the shock? |What kind of shock can a 9V lithium battery deliver? I’m a paramedic, it would depend on each person’s heart. If one of them is 85 years old and has a bad heart it could very well kill them.

That would only be true is the 21 year-old girl didn’t do them in first. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA taxman at negia.net

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I need a paramedic’s expertise:

And you think there are paramedics in an accounting newsgroup — Paul A. Thomas, CPA taxman at negia.net

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|I need a paramedic’s expertise: So why post in Alt.accounting? |Would they be able to withstand the shock? |What kind of shock can a 9V lithium battery deliver? I’m a paramedic, it would depend on each person’s heart.   If one of them is 85 years old and has a bad heart it could very well kill them.   When someone makes love, why would they want to do this?   "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address.     —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

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defibrillator question   2003/Nov/03 I need a paramedic’s expertise: I am a television writer. I came up with a scene where, during sex, a woman (on top) introduces a portable defibrillator and as climax approaches, holds one paddle above groin of the guy, the other above her groin. Guy grasps her arm and she–with the defib on lowest power–hits the button(s). Would they be able to withstand the shock? What kind of shock can a 9V lithium battery deliver? A

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Question:

To answer your specific question it would not be a deduction from tax payable.  Assuming it would be deductible it would be just a deduction.  I am not a CPA, but I don’t think donated labor is deductible. So, if your only concern is maximizing your profit, then a $ of income is always better than a $ of deduction. Good luck Jerry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone help me with the correct info? We have offered some software installation service to a non-profit. They have given the option to get payment or a certificate for tax-deduction. 1. Which is better? Payment for the service or a certificate for tax-deduction? 2. If tax-deduction is possible, will the amount be deductable from the tax-payable or deductable from the taxable income? How’s the accounting done? Thanks in advance. –Bingoo

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Can someone help me with the correct info? We

Who – is "we"? have offered some software installation service to a non-profit. They have given the option to get payment or a certificate for tax-deduction. 1. Which is better? Payment for the service or a certificate for tax-deduction?

Your tax deduction would be limited to (and follow me here) your actual out-of-pocket expenses.  NOT the fair market value (whatever amount you thought you might could have billed someone else for that exact same work) of your services. In any event, a certificate for the tax deduction is better, why?, because you never had to put the income – in income, and you can still deduct your actual out-of pocket expenses (as an itemized deduction on Schedule A assuming that "we" is an individual). 2. If tax-deduction is possible, will the amount be deductable from the tax-payable or deductable from the taxable income? How’s the accounting done?

See above.  Your actual costs spent providing the services are the only amount you can deduct.  Again, YOUR COST, which generally means you wrote a check or paid cash for goods or other services.  Like?  Like what it actually cost you to install software. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA, PC Athens, Georgia

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To answer your specific question it would not be a deduction from tax payable.  Assuming it would be deductible it would be just a deduction.  I am not a CPA, but I don’t think donated labor is deductible. So, if your only concern is maximizing your profit, then a $ of income is always better than a $ of deduction.

Not if he’s self-employed, the income will be taxed for income tax as well as self-employment tax.  While even if he turned right around and wrote the check back to the charity (and we’re both assuming the "non-profit" is a charitable non-profit) he’d only get an income tax deduction IF he itemizes his deductions and – there aren’t any limitations to his charitable contributions or itemized deductions. Personally, I think he’s going to be better off not taking it as income. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA, PC Athens, Georgia

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Can someone help me with the correct info? We have offered some software installation service to a non-profit. They have given the option to get payment or a certificate for tax-deduction. 1. Which is better? Payment for the service or a certificate for tax-deduction?

As Paul has noted, your only deduction is the out of pocket costs you incurred providing the service. That would be the same amount you will deduct if you get paid by the non-profit. So which is better, ($0 revenue – $out-of-pocket) or ($0 revenue – $out-of-pocket)? 2. If tax-deduction is possible, will the amount be deductable from the tax-payable or deductable from the taxable income? How’s the accounting done?

See Paul’s answer.

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Paul I would agree with your answer if he was going to take the check from the non-profit and give it back to them.  I did not read in the question that he was that generous. I understand the non-profit has said we can 1)  give Bingoo some money (income) 2)  give Bingoo a receipt equal to the amount they were going to pay him in option 1 ("deduction") He used the word service in his question, therefore I assume he is talking more about labor than product.  But I don’t think it matters. If it were all product (say $100 certificate for fair market value, and his cost was $10) and they gave him a check, then in the above options 1)  He would have $100 of income and $10 of expense, so $90 would be taxable.  If his total tax rate (including state, federal and self-employment) is 60% he would pay $54 tax.  Therefore he would pocket $100-$10-$54 = $36 2)  In this option his deduction would only be $10 * 45% (60% above – ~15% self-employment tax) = $4.50 So he could make $36 or save $4.50.  Again if his only concern is maximizing profit, I would think making $36 would be better than saving $4.50. If it were all labor I think the trade-off would be $40 versus $0 (since his labor is not deductible). If the above expense was equal to the income ($100), then the tradeoff would be $0 versus -$55 (loss). If his goal is to help the non-profit, then obviously taking the certificate would be the best for them. Again, I am not a CPA, but this seems pretty straight-forward that income for a service is better than a deduction for the same service. Please educate me – what don’t I understand? Thanks Jerry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To answer your specific question it would not be a deduction from tax payable.  Assuming it would be deductible it would be just a deduction. I am not a CPA, but I don’t think donated labor is deductible. So, if your only concern is maximizing your profit, then a $ of income is always better than a $ of deduction. Not if he’s self-employed, the income will be taxed for income tax as well as self-employment tax.  While even if he turned right around and wrote the check back to the charity (and we’re both assuming the "non-profit" is a charitable non-profit) he’d only get an income tax deduction IF he itemizes his deductions and – there aren’t any limitations to his charitable contributions or itemized deductions. Personally, I think he’s going to be better off not taking it as income. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA, PC Athens, Georgia

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Please educate me – what don’t I understand?

You understand.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for all the responses. Though the replies are detailed, some of them go above my head! (I am not an accounting pro.) I’d appreciate an additional explanation. "We" are an small incorporation – doing just about $100,000 a year. The value of the service is about $5,000. One of our employees did the job. Do you think we’ll benefit by cash or certificate? For general knowledge, what would be the appropriate accounting method: Method #1 Method #2 Or, both are not correct?!

Both are not correct.  (Method #2 is never correct.) The costs of providing the service to the non-profit are included in the $30,000 of expenses. You do NOT get a deduction for the value of the work. From your facts you would be better off taking the cash.

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Question:

Hi – Watch for it… We’ll be putting up a Veritas box – same functionality (maybe not as pretty), but will be 1/2 the price… Cheers, Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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Hi – Watch for it… We’ll be putting up a Veritas box – same functionality (maybe not as pretty), but will be 1/2 the price… Cheers, Rob

Rob, If it’s not $56 then its obviously inferior to the LN. Sorry, but I’ll have to put your catalog away and hope for another box to appear on e-bay. <G Dean

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"Nuno Souto"  wrote … Fortunately I get all my L-N planes (boxes and instructions included) for free.  I have more money to spend on beer can shims that way.  ;0) that has to qualify as a drive-by gloat if I ever saw one! How the heck do you manage that?

I lead a charmed life I guess.   ;0) — Cheers, Howard Visit me in the woodshop – www.inthewoodshop.org

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Hi – Watch for it… We’ll be putting up a Veritas box – same functionality (maybe not as pretty), but will be 1/2 the price…

   Let me know if you need someone to test the prototype for you.       Chuck Vance

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Maybe the box is made of ductile iron??? And is dead square on all 6 sides and flat to within .001"??? Comes with a nice cherry tote and knob??? Layne

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Who the hell would pay money for an empty box? I bet LN would be happy to ship you an empty box for much less than $56.

But would it be a vintage box?  ;-) Some people collect planes.  Some people will pay more if the plane is in its original box.  Sounds like there are also people who collect boxes (or can’t be bothered to read the entire Ebay posts).  There is money to be made by those of us who only want the plane.  That is unless you care about your grandson being able to sell your old LN planes with the boxes on Ebay.  They’ll be worth a lot more with their original boxes.   But then what can you say about a relative who would sell your old planes? — to email me use: mclainusenet AT comcast DOT net

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Maybe they want it on a shelf so that people think the plane on the bench is a L-N, not a Buck Brothers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is amazing is that if you click on "Bid History," you’ll find that there were three people who bid on an empty box, and a fourth who bid up to $75.00 before retracting his bid… Karl in IL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 CB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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There is no accounting for taste! Maybe there is a fine wood box inside, , , — SwampBug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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"Lorna & Chris"  wrote … http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

No, it appears to be a box for sale that some schmuck bought for $56, plus shipping. I guess some people will do anything to get next to a Lie Nielsen product. Fortunately I get all my L-N planes (boxes and instructions included) for free.  I have more money to spend on beer can shims that way.  ;0) — Cheers, Howard Visit me in the woodshop – www.inthewoodshop.org

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What is amazing is that if you click on "Bid History," you’ll find that there were three people who bid on an empty box, and a fourth who bid up to $75.00 before retracting his bid… Karl in IL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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All I can say is GOOD GOD that hook going to leave a scar .  But at least there good chance they will buy my big red bridge that crosses the bay Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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….sound of me digging through my closet to find my LN boxes…. Who the hell would pay money for an empty box? I bet LN would be happy to ship you an empty box for much less than $56. –Neil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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says… Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box. Am I missing something here?

  Yeah, the link!  :-)

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says… Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box. Am I missing something here?   Yeah, the link!  :-)

The link will cost you another $10!!!  ;)

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(and I quote): I guess some people will do anything to get next to a Lie Nielsen product. Fortunately I get all my L-N planes (boxes and instructions included) for free.  I have more money to spend on beer can shims that way.  ;0)

that has to qualify as a drive-by gloat if I ever saw one! How the heck do you manage that? — Cheers Nuno Souto

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Just found mine.  $25 and I’ll pay the shipping! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is amazing is that if you click on "Bid History," you’ll find that there were three people who bid on an empty box, and a fourth who bid up to $75.00 before retracting his bid… Karl in IL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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Question:

Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell I don’t know but I’m interested in their bottom line.

So that’s what they mean by a "bare market". — John Fereira Ithaca, NY

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Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell I don’t know but I’m interested in their bottom line. So that’s what they mean by a "bare market".

I’m feeling bullish about my chances with them. Shawn Pickrell

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell I don’t know but I’m interested in their bottom line. So that’s what they mean by a "bare market". I’m feeling bullish about my chances with them. Shawn Pickrell

Just take a good look before you grab the bull by the horns. VSM – in the dark mistakes can happen.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a wall: Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell I don’t know but I’m interested in their bottom line. Then comes the ultimate in financial modelling…   Economists are still trying to figure out why the girls with the   least principle draw the most interest. I like you. I like alt.accounting. Your learning curves are demonstrably not Y=0. Except for that William Brown. He’s a meanie. Shawn Pickrell

He’s probably gone over and joined the Hubert Lanites. That or married Violet Elizabeth Bott, or something. Uncle Davey

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Could someone please explain financial modeling.  Thank you in advance.

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Hello I don’t know if a model exist for financial in enterprise. But I do it with some calculations like exponential smoothing ,correlation, some predictives functions, and I can see how accounts react when changing one . You point what is your goal , it is like "what if?" calculation. Regards Patrick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone please explain financial modeling.  Thank you in advance.

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Hello I don’t know if a model exist for financial in enterprise. But I do it with some calculations like exponential smoothing ,correlation, some predictives functions, and I can see how accounts react when changing one . You point what is your goal , it is like "what if?" calculation. Could someone please explain financial modeling.  Thank you in advance.

The concept of "financial modelling" may differ to some extent from one academic culture to another. German academia in particular attempted during the 1970s and 1980s to construct very complex mathematical models to simulate business entities. However, aside from their great complexity and thus difficulty of communication, these models have failed to become widely used management tools in practice for several reasons, e. g.: 1) basic data, often accounting data, is often if not usually the    product of cosmetic manipulation and thus "subjective" 2) rational behaviour is only a small part of human behaviour (see    "behavioural finance") 3) the results of application of such models directly affect the models    themselves, i. e. the causality chain becomes impaired In central Europe, the more pragmatic "School of St. Gall" has become more widely accepted and applied by professional managers. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": cryptographic Somalia Saddam Hussein $400 million in gold bullion Bush

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Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell

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Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell

I don’t know but I’m interested in their bottom line. — Brock "All right, so I’ll go to the Stardust Ballroom.  I’ll put on a blue suit, and I’ll go. And you know  what I’m gonna get for my trouble? Heartache. A big  night of heartache."–Ernest Borgnine as "Marty"

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Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell I don’t know but I’m interested in their bottom line.

Then comes the ultimate in financial modelling…   Economists are still trying to figure out why the girls with the   least principle draw the most interest. — http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/languages.html Rules  of the  Evil Overlord  #146.  "If my  surveillance reports  any un-manned  or  seemingly  innocent  ships  found where  they  are  not supposed to be, they will  be immediately vaporized instead of brought in for salvage." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/

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Could someone please explain financial modeling.  Thank you in advance.

I think that’s where a girl wearing not much clothing reads FASB standards to a crowd wearing green eye shades.  Or maybe I’m misremembering it… — http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/linuxxian.html Rules of the  Evil Overlord #46. "If an advisor says  to me "My liege, he  is but  one man.  What can  one man  possibly do?",  I  will reply "This." and kill the advisor." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would those girls who read stock market reports in the nude be considered financial models? curious, Shawn Pickrell I don’t know but I’m interested in their bottom line. Then comes the ultimate in financial modelling…   Economists are still trying to figure out why the girls with the   least principle draw the most interest.

I like you. I like alt.accounting. Your learning curves are demonstrably not Y=0. Except for that William Brown. He’s a meanie. Shawn Pickrell

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Question:

Mike, in such a case speech is silver, silence is gold. Lucien

We hope to get to know you better if you would like that. Silence is not gold if it involves more profits.

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So basically what you are saying is that commercial transactions and balance sheet items do not always represent the just, fair or honest monetary amount attached to it.  Is that right?    That is right  Further the double entry system permits the manipulation in  sums. In theory of units units unified in the measurement  means could be accumulated while sums with diffident  purchasing powers could not be accumulated

The double entry system as such permits no manipulation at all. As pointed out previously, you simply have not understood the double entry system and are constantly confusing it with the choice of appropriate units in the context of the situation you are dealing with. The double entry system simple states that you must enter each transaction in two accounts with reversed signs. The double entry system does NOT require one to use monetary units, although this is common practice. Gold, silver and spices were common units of measure in Venice 500 years ago.  Accumulating values of purchased assets  in successive years  which are followed by differences in values of these assets  though their units and means of measurement are fixed during  these years lead to accumulated  inhomogeneous values. For  example if a car purchased in 1986 at a price of $(11000) and  another car in 1988 at a price of $(1100) we can not say that  the price of  both cars in 1990 is $( 21000) because the  models, the types and the purposes of both cars are different  but we can say that the price of  the cars in the  organization is $( 21000). Furthermore the price of the first  car in 1986 and the second in 1988 are different in the  historical cost from the price of both cars in 1990.The  historical measurement in this example is not identical to  reality and cash value is assumed to be fixed while currency  value differs from time to time.

Prices fluctuate if expressed in monetary or other units. Maybe I would exchage a car for 20 sheep under certain circumstances and the same car for 40 sheep under other circumstances. If you had a "sheep unit" book-keeping system (perhaps you would be in the sheep business and sheep would be acceptable tender), you would have a similar average valuation in sheep / car as in the above example with monetary units. There is nothing at all "wrong" with this.  Accumulating units which are measured by the same means is an  accumulation of the measurement itself which is possible ,  while accumulation units&#8217; specifications themselves is  not possible .  For example we cloud say that the number of  cubic meters in a building are (100) cubic meters, consist of  (50) cubic meters of bricks , (20) cubic meters of cement and  ( 30) cubic meters of sand .

There is nothing new or original. This is trite. We call it: "Don’t mix up apples and oranges." You cannot mix units of bricks, sand and cement. Would you trade the same number of sheep for sand as for cement?  In accumulating cash , it includes these specifications yet  it cancels them , for example ,  the building’s value is$  (10000) include the one hundred cubic meters with their three  units , which is not acceptable because it cancels the units’  specifications and its results are unreliable .

What difference would there be if you sold the building for sheep instead of cash? What would be unacceptable about that? A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. http://www.consult-meyers.com recommends email encryption using GnuPG.

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(snip) Is there more important thing than the fact that companies are falling apart owing to the debit-credit concept?

Cite one company failing due to application of double entry methods. If you appreciate the US technical expertise, then by all means go there and earn at least a bachelor’s degree in accounting. Your’s truly has worked in the Middle East for a few years and visited your country (Egypt). Fortunately, the accountants I met from your country had the basic accounting knowledge and training which you lack. Therefore I conclude that you are by no means representative for your country’s accounting community. Enterprises fail for other reasons, e. g. Enron by lying, cheating and stealing. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": World Trade Center Delta Force Qaddafi Cocaine Smuggle assassination DES

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We appreciate the Americans and their scientific progress.A lot of people who got their doctorate and master degrees in all sciences got them from the U.S.A. You host people from all over the world in your beloved country. We don’t waste time; please wait till you see the whole picture is complete .our objective is to maintain investments and to present advantages to the society and accountants Is there more important thing than the fact that companies are falling apart owing to the debit-credit concept?

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In fact you don’t waste your time neither do we .We discovered the truth in the double entry system .Why don’t you want to see the truth? How come you don’t pay attention to damage especially when a friend warns you (We consider ourselves friends for all accountants) Here is a simple example The changes in the prices levels : Prices rise in the times of inflation and decrease in the times of deflation. They rise and decrease from a unit to another and units are not unified in the rising or the decreasing of prices. For example, the prices of some goods do not rise even if they are demanded a lot, also the prices of some units are not affected even if their supplying is increasing. For example the demand on salt  is not affected whether the prices are rising or decreasing. Some goods are influenced by the times of inflation and deflations and some other goods are influence by them in smaller degree while some goods are not influenced  at all. While the general trend of prices level is the average of that trend of prices in general during a certain period .There is no doubt that the rising of the prices levels makes the measure which is based on cash basis incorrect because it is a historical measure that does not fit with the changes in the prices levels during the measured period which cause the liquidation of organization. To illustrate that point more we take the organization’s assets as an example as follows: – Purchasing assets for the organization in different periods besides the rising of prices leads to non homogenized depreciation. Moreover, the accumulation of values of different measures of assets is not possible from the logical and arithmetical aspects – Measuring revenues and the costs of obtaining them in the measured accounting period causes accumulating non homogenized cash sums due to the different measurement units of both revenues and expenses. Further more the measurement units of expenses are different although the unit is the same because the time periods are different as a result of the rising of unit price from time to time so the historical accumulation is not consistent with the present value and the market prices . – Its difficult to compare among the projects which are unified in one activity such as the construction activity owing to the difference of values in the historical units although the activity and the specifications are the same yet, the historical value of periods of time which are transferred to current values are not the same which make it impossible to compare among projects and measure them . – Even in similar projects if a project starts in a date before another project it would be impossible to compare between them because the assets of the first project are less in cost than the second project which means that the first project realizes profit that is more than the second project’s profit so the comparison would not be valuable. – Applying the historical cost principle only leads to the distribution of a part of the organization’s capital within the profit. If  the current value is not used in the assets’ depreciation besides the historical value that would lead to a false increase in the distributable profit of the organization – The rising of prices level leads to the repaying of the creditors money with a value that is less than the real value of debts at the time of recovering them .For example, the external authorities which obtained goods at a certain date and repaid the value of these goods at a later date where the prices value increased by 10% ,in this case repaying would  represent a loss by 10%  to the organization . – Purchasing or selling assets does not appear in a correct form that could be compared in two similar organizations which are unified in one activity as profits made from selling one of the assets are not realized until selling is completed. While this asset belongs to previous accounting periods so these capital profits are posted to another period because they are not realized unless assets are sold in the measured period .

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now I understand. They are not simply trying to replace accounting. They also are trying to replace economics and reform human nature. Much of basic economics deals with supply and demand, where substantially identical items are offered for sale and purchase at very different prices. Of course, we all but instinctively understand that this leaves overly optimistic buyers and sellers not able to make market price exchanges (regardless of honesty). Now a simple (?) nonsensical (!) system will repeal these unexplainable (?) events? Of course, economics & real world accounting also deal with vast amounts of continuous substitution of different products to satisfy  the same and different needs. Now all we need to do is agree on the character of a new unit and all these problems and results disappear. What ivory tower bull. Only good mental health people can help them. What is more important is what is the matter with the rest of us (especially me)? Why waste time answering nonsense by those not really identifying themselves, showing credentials or showing any understanding of either what they talk about, accounting, economics or human nature? Why especially do this during the tax season peak, unless we cannot help responding to the red flag of newsgroup corruption?

It is now confirmed that your filter is not working. The importance of theory of units to you is that it saves 50% of the expenses. We have identified ourselves and our credentials twice .       Fax : (00202)-5082727 Tel 00202)-5084183 & (00202)-5050648                    Tel 00202)-5050649      P.O box 157 – P.C 11571 – Mokattam post – Cairo – Egypt

Response:

this kind of a thread? Why do we react to these trolls?  Why do we lack the self discipline to focus on subjects that matter?

For a kind of fun entertainment and carousing. Our profession usually is a wee bit of the serious side. Some less organized souls would even claim dull. And there is nothing new to this. Don’t forget that seen from one angle we even have a kind of a resident pet troll in the the NG.    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

If anybody thinks our work has real value and relevance, to members of the real economy, then why do we waste our mental powers on this kind of a thread? Why do we react to these trolls?  Why do we lack the self discipline to focus on subjects that matter?

Why did you lack the self discipline to focus on accounting, and instead post about the temptations of "foreign women?"  :-) Part of the story certainly is that some degree of amusement and frivolity may be gained in the process of making fun of things that are silly. — http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html "Never insult seven men, when all you’re packin’ is a six gun" — Zane Gray

Response:

So basically what you are saying is that commercial transactions and balance sheet items do not always represent the just, fair or honest monetary amount attached to it.  Is that right?  

That is right Further the double entry system permits the manipulation in sums. In theory of units units unified in the measurement means could be accumulated while sums with diffident purchasing powers could not be accumulated Accumulating values of purchased assets  in successive years which are followed by differences in values of these assets though their units and means of measurement are fixed during these years lead to accumulated  inhomogeneous values. For example if a car purchased in 1986 at a price of $(11000) and another car in 1988 at a price of $(1100) we can not say that the price of  both cars in 1990 is $( 21000) because the models, the types and the purposes of both cars are different but we can say that the price of  the cars in the organization is $( 21000). Furthermore the price of the first car in 1986 and the second in 1988 are different in the historical cost from the price of both cars in 1990.The historical measurement in this example is not identical to reality and cash value is assumed to be fixed while currency value differs from time to time. Accumulating units which are measured by the same means is an accumulation of the measurement itself which is possible , while accumulation units&#8217; specifications themselves is not possible . For example we cloud say that the number of cubic meters in a building are (100) cubic meters, consist of (50) cubic meters of bricks , (20) cubic meters of cement and ( 30) cubic meters of sand . In accumulating cash , it includes these specifications yet it cancels them , for example ,  the building’s value is$ (10000) include the one hundred cubic meters with their three units , which is not acceptable because it cancels the units’ specifications and its results are unreliable .

Response:

Why waste time answering nonsense by those not really identifying themselves, showing credentials or showing any understanding of either what they talk about, accounting, economics or human nature?

No real reason. But many of the gentle readers, sometimes yours truly included, are suckers for trolls.   http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/crackpot.html#troll   http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/anonpost.html    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So basically what you are saying is that commercial transactions and balance sheet items do not always represent the just, fair or honest monetary amount attached to it.  Is that right?  You would want some sort of incorruptible "unit" value?  So if I have 4 cows and say that they are worth $1,000 each the "units" could support or dispel the value.  If these are dry heifers they are probably worth less than $1,000 if they are good milkers they could be worth $2,000 each.  Units or not how would this be resolved?  You need an honest "auditor" to verify that what I’m saying is true.  Those who want to mislead with financial statements would still have an easy time of it.  The problem with money not representing things accurately is not inherent to money, it’s due to crooks and their accountants who willfully misrepresent and falsify documents to perpetrate fraud.  How would new "units" change that?  Even if you were to use the atomic weight multiplied by atomic age, the molecular structure of the asset would still arrive at some sort of money by another name.  The dark underside of human behaviour would still be there.  No matter how you ponder the imponderable you would not resolve that fundamental flaw of human character.  It’s been unsuccessfully debated since the beginning of the reasoning logical man.  Mind is a complex matter.  The corrupt mind is even more complex.

Now I understand. They are not simply trying to replace accounting. They also are trying to replace economics and reform human nature. Much of basic economics deals with supply and demand, where substantially identical items are offered for sale and purchase at very different prices. Of course, we all but instinctively understand that this leaves overly optimistic buyers and sellers not able to make market price exchanges (regardless of honesty). Now a simple (?) nonsensical (!) system will repeal these unexplainable (?) events? Of course, economics & real world accounting also deal with vast amounts of continuous substitution of different products to satisfy  the same and different needs. Now all we need to do is agree on the character of a new unit and all these problems and results disappear. What ivory tower bull. Only good mental health people can help them. What is more important is what is the matter with the rest of us (especially me)? Why waste time answering nonsense by those not really identifying themselves, showing credentials or showing any understanding of either what they talk about, accounting, economics or human nature? Why especially do this during the tax season peak, unless we cannot help responding to the red flag of newsgroup corruption? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reasoning behind these posts is: 1-Protect investments and consequently increase the national income. 2-Use unit  in measurement and currency in exchange so that accounting reconcile with the actual commercial transactions. 3-extract the closing accounts  and the balance sheet and recognizing net profit ( in terms of quantities and sums) at any time  instead of waiting till the end of the financial year to extract this data. 4-The self-assurance of the accountants in themselves and in data to 100%. 5-Canceling the controller’s reservation on the balance sheet so that his report that the balance sheet is 100% accurate and reflects the real fact of the organization would be reliable. These are the purposes behind these posts and we are willing to answer any question and to help in achieving these purposes.

   Mike Block, QuickBooks Tax Cut CPA, 954-566-7540 Lowest QB Prices   http://blocktax.com/lowest_QuickBooks_prices.htm Free 462p QB Book  http://blocktax.com/free-quickbooks-book.htm Error Codes/Fixes  http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-errors.htm Shortcuts Download http://blocktax.com/quickbooks_shortcuts.htm 200 QB Add-ons http://blocktax.com/quickbooks-addons/quickbooks-add-ons.htm

Response:

Mike, in such a case speech is silver, silence is gold. Lucien

Response:

What ivory tower bull. Only good mental health people can help them. What is more important is what is the matter with the rest of us (especially me)? Why waste time answering nonsense by those not really identifying themselves, showing credentials or showing any understanding of either what they talk about, accounting, economics or human nature?

That’s right.   This episode shows that we have a certain mental disease ourselves.  Or, at least, reveals our activities within alt.accounting is for our mental amusement, and lacks purpose. If anybody thinks our work has real value and relevance, to members of the real economy, then why do we waste our mental powers on this kind of a thread? Why do we react to these trolls?  Why do we lack the self discipline to focus on subjects that matter? Todd

Response:

Because it’s amusing.  Todd said for them to "Go away.  You’re wasting everybody’s time."  The fact is they’re wasting no one’s time, we are wasting our own time, no one is forced to read or reply.  The posts are always well identified and the poster doesn’t change his sender address every other day.  It’s really up to anybody to read or not, or to reply or not, so they can’t blame others for wasted time.  Some have said that they were busy doing taxes… oh yeah???  If some are busy doing taxes what are they doing on an alt. newsgroup chitchatting and reading, not to mention replying to these postings?  They can’t be all that busy or else they wouldn’t be here period!  So I say if people don’t feel like reading it they should just skip these post… I don’t think that we will find the origins of the universe in these posts.  It’s like the Sunday Time, it weighs a ton, who reads it end to end?  But we don’t complain because it’s full of ads or essays that don’t interest us, we just flip the pages for what we find interesting or amusing. As I said I read (some) of them for entertainment.  One has to admit they are promoting all kinds of replies and points of view so they have accomplished an exchange of philosophical musings if nothing else.  I doubt that GAAP will be revamped by any of this mumbo jumbo!  I guess it’s like The National Enquirer… nobody reads it but it’s the most widely circulated and read magazine in the USA…. go figure. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What ivory tower bull. Only good mental health people can help them. What is more important is what is the matter with the rest of us (especially me)? Why waste time answering nonsense by those not really identifying themselves, showing credentials or showing any understanding of either what they talk about, accounting, economics or human nature? That’s right.   This episode shows that we have a certain mental disease ourselves.  Or, at least, reveals our activities within alt.accounting is for our mental amusement, and lacks purpose. If anybody thinks our work has real value and relevance, to members of the real economy, then why do we waste our mental powers on this kind of a thread? Why do we react to these trolls?  Why do we lack the self discipline to focus on subjects that matter? Todd

Response:

FWIW the ancient Romans originally used small livestock as money. The word "pecuniary" has the same origin as the Latin "pecunia" – "pecus" = livestock, especially small livestock. In Italian, "pecoro" = ram. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": genetic Soviet assassination nuclear Khaddafi sentiero luminoso Sharon

Response:

The reasoning behind these posts is: 1-Protect investments and consequently increase the national income. 2-Use unit  in measurement and currency in exchange so that accounting reconcile with the actual commercial transactions. 3-extract the closing accounts  and the balance sheet and recognizing net profit ( in terms of quantities and sums) at any time  instead of waiting till the end of the financial year to extract this data. 4-The self-assurance of the accountants in themselves and in data to 100%. 5-Canceling the controller’s reservation on the balance sheet so that his report that the balance sheet is 100% accurate and reflects the real fact of the organization would be reliable. These are the purposes behind these posts and we are willing to answer any question and to help in achieving these purposes.

Response:

So basically what you are saying is that commercial transactions and balance sheet items do not always represent the just, fair or honest monetary amount attached to it.  Is that right?  You would want some sort of incorruptible "unit" value?  So if I have 4 cows and say that they are worth $1,000 each the "units" could support or dispel the value.  If these are dry heifers they are probably worth less than $1,000 if they are good milkers they could be worth $2,000 each.  Units or not how would this be resolved?  You need an honest "auditor" to verify that what I’m saying is true.  Those who want to mislead with financial statements would still have an easy time of it.  The problem with money not representing things accurately is not inherent to money, it’s due to crooks and their accountants who willfully misrepresent and falsify documents to perpetrate fraud.  How would new "units" change that?  Even if you were to use the atomic weight multiplied by atomic age, the molecular structure of the asset would still arrive at some sort of money by another name.  The dark underside of human behaviour would still be there.  No matter how you ponder the imponderable you would not resolve that fundamental flaw of human character.  It’s been unsuccessfully debated since the beginning of the reasoning logical man.  Mind is a complex matter.  The corrupt mind is even more complex. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reasoning behind these posts is: 1-Protect investments and consequently increase the national income. 2-Use unit  in measurement and currency in exchange so that accounting reconcile with the actual commercial transactions. 3-extract the closing accounts  and the balance sheet and recognizing net profit ( in terms of quantities and sums) at any time  instead of waiting till the end of the financial year to extract this data. 4-The self-assurance of the accountants in themselves and in data to 100%. 5-Canceling the controller’s reservation on the balance sheet so that his report that the balance sheet is 100% accurate and reflects the real fact of the organization would be reliable. These are the purposes behind these posts and we are willing to answer any question and to help in achieving these purposes.

Response:

The nature of the unit is defined as the general overall shape of the unit which is common for all units of the same kind.For example,when we say that this is a blue pen so its nature is blue but it is not enough to recognize the unit.Although units could be unified in nature but they are different in classification,For example when we say that unit’s nature is wood but at the same time there are many types of wood such as,red wood,compressed wood and beech wood .From the unit’s nature we can determine the measurement means of this unit without referring to its specifications.

Response:

                                                     For example,when we say that this is a blue pen

When you say, "blue pen," do you mean the casing is blue or that the ink is blue or that the pen is depressed? easy2000

Response:

What the hell does it matter?  You’re arguing with yourself being that you still want to use "units".  Pretty soon you’ll be debating whether or not we should use the decimal system instead of the binary one.  Be they (your units) plug nickels, US dollars, pesos or rubbles they are all fairly well kept in check and balance by speculators and traders, supply and demand. Every now and then it can get a bit out of whack but nor for very long. The value of any currency vis a vis any other currency takes into account many factors, productivity, national debt, political stability, monetary policy and so on.  You’re trying to reinvent the wheel. You could always use chickens.  Then when your system falls apart you could read the chicken entrails and blame the collapse on the price of rotten rhubarb in Russia. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The nature of the unit is defined as the general overall shape of the unit which is common for all units of the same kind.For example,when we say that this is a blue pen so its nature is blue but it is not enough to recognize the unit.Although units could be unified in nature but they are different in classification,For example when we say that unit’s nature is wood but at the same time there are many types of wood such as,red wood,compressed wood and beech wood .From the unit’s nature we can determine the measurement means of this unit without referring to its specifications.

Response:

Question: which is most important, money or units? Answer: neither. Units of money are important. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Rumsfeld terrorist Rule Psix World Trade Center KGB SDI FSF Ft. Meade

Response:

                                                     For example,when we say that this is a blue pen When you say, "blue pen," do you mean the casing is blue or that the ink is blue or that the pen is depressed? easy2000

May be you want the pen to be depressed .May be the intellectual flaws of the double entry system cause that depression.

Response:

Question: which is most important, money or units? Answer: neither. Units of money are important.

 Money and units are integrated and inseparable ; the unit is used for measurement while money is used for exchange

Response:

What the hell does it matter?  You’re arguing with yourself being that you still want to use "units".  Pretty soon you’ll be debating whether or not we should use the decimal system instead of the binary one.  Be they (your units) plug nickels, US dollars, pesos or rubbles they are all fairly well kept in check and balance by speculators and traders, supply and demand. Every now and then it can get a bit out of whack but nor for very long. The value of any currency vis a vis any other currency takes into account many factors, productivity, national debt, political stability, monetary policy and so on.  

That is right and all these factors represent units .currency has no value without the units and it is not a measurement means by itself (you concluded that by yourself) and that what theory of units supports. You’re trying to reinvent the wheel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could always use chickens.  Then when your system falls apart you could read the chicken entrails and blame the collapse on the price of rotten rhubarb in Russia. John The nature of the unit is defined as the general overall shape of the unit which is common for all units of the same kind.For example,when we say that this is a blue pen so its nature is blue but it is not enough to recognize the unit.Although units could be unified in nature but they are different in classification,For example when we say that unit’s nature is wood but at the same time there are many types of wood such as,red wood,compressed wood and beech wood .From the unit’s nature we can determine the measurement means of this unit without referring to its specifications.

Response:

Ultimately what do the units represent?  Doesn’t it all boil down to the same thing? Hours in the sunshine in company of loved ones would be the ultimate.  This is the part that I don’t understand, money means nothing, we all know that… we can’t eat it, it’s just paper.  Give me hot sun on my bare skin any day.  Oh jeesh I shouldn’t have read that romance post… now I’m getting hot.  I think it’s all referenced to monetary units because that is an accepted and valid (?) reference.  Oil companies use reserves.  These things are valid units, the price goes up and down and who knows the future unit value. The Dutch had Tulipomania sometime in the 1400’s or something like that.  I’m a bit confused as to the reasoning behind it all.  Please don’t ask me to read earlier posts on the subject.  The list is way too long and forked.  I only expect to live another 70 years at best. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What the hell does it matter?  You’re arguing with yourself being that you still want to use "units".  Pretty soon you’ll be debating whether or not we should use the decimal system instead of the binary one.  Be they (your units) plug nickels, US dollars, pesos or rubbles they are all fairly well kept in check and balance by speculators and traders, supply and demand. Every now and then it can get a bit out of whack but nor for very long. The value of any currency vis a vis any other currency takes into account many factors, productivity, national debt, political stability, monetary policy and so on. That is right and all these factors represent units .currency has no value without the units and it is not a measurement means by itself (you concluded that by yourself) and that what theory of units supports. You’re trying to reinvent the wheel. You could always use chickens.  Then when your system falls apart you could read the chicken entrails and blame the collapse on the price of rotten rhubarb in Russia. John The nature of the unit is defined as the general overall shape of the unit which is common for all units of the same kind.For example,when we say that this is a blue pen so its nature is blue but it is not enough to recognize the unit.Although units could be unified in nature but they are different in classification,For example when we say that unit’s nature is wood but at the same time there are many types of wood such as,red wood,compressed wood and beech wood .From the unit’s nature we can determine the measurement means of this unit without referring to its specifications.

Response:

Question:

Wouldn’t be from Sydney would we? Jake

Response:

<snipped They do not need Accountants in Melbourne. The People have no money and all the companies are foreign and have their Accunts done off-shore. PEM

What do they do off shore?  :-)) Oh … you are soooooooooooooooo rude!

Response:

Does anybody know anything about KNP Chartered Accountants in Melbourne? There don’t appear to be any web-based resources for this company. Aren’t they in the 21st Century yet? They do not need Accountants in Melbourne. The People have no money and all the companies are foreign and have their Accunts done off-shore.

Oh, thanks, I was worried that I wouldn’t get a serious answer.

Response:

 Does anybody know anything about KNP Chartered Accountants in Melbourne? I’m certain that KNP Chartered Accountants would.

There don’t appear to be any web-based resources for this company. You don’t appear to have a proper handle on the Queen’s English.

Aren’t they in the 21st Century yet? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you even reached the 20th century? Use a friggin’ telephone!

Response:

Does anybody know anything about KNP Chartered Accountants in Melbourne? I’m certain that KNP Chartered Accountants would.

But would they tell me everything they know? Do you understand the concept of research? There don’t appear to be any web-based resources for this company. You don’t appear to have a proper handle on the Queen’s English.

Interesting…what, specifically, has led you to this hypothesis? Are you sure you aren’t merely an idiot in disguise? Aren’t they in the 21st Century yet? Have you even reached the 20th century? Use a friggin’ telephone!

Why should I do that when I am already in the 21st Century and waiting for retards like yourself to catch up?

Response:

Does anybody know anything about KNP Chartered Accountants in Melbourne? There don’t appear to be any web-based resources for this company. Aren’t they in the 21st Century yet?

Response:

Does anybody know anything about KNP Chartered Accountants in Melbourne? There don’t appear to be any web-based resources for this company. Aren’t they in the 21st Century yet?

They do not need Accountants in Melbourne. The People have no money and all the companies are foreign and have their Accunts done off-shore. PEM

Response:

Question:

    Hi!  To whomever reads this. I’m doing my accounting review homework and I forgot what to put in the general ledger T accounts when there is a "withdrawl $3,000 cash from the (retained earnings?) Please reply ASAP! Thank You.

Response:

Bomber – There are several answers to this question – 1) The owner could be repaying a loan he previously gave the company and therefore you would debit a liability account (Notes Payable – Owner) – 2) He could be borrowing the funds and then the debit would be a current asset -AR (A/R – Loans to Owner) 3) He could be reducing his current capital investment – debit the Equity account (Capital Investment) or 4) He could be taking a personal DRAW in which I would create a new Equity account (Draws to Owners).  Hope this helps. DeeDee Heyne D.B.H. ENTERPRISES – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Hi!  To whomever reads this. I’m doing my accounting review homework and I forgot what to put in the general ledger T accounts when there is a "withdrawl $3,000 cash from the (retained earnings?) Please reply ASAP! Thank You.

Response:

   Hi!  To whomever reads this. I’m doing my accounting review homework and I forgot what to put in the general ledger T accounts when there is a "withdrawl $3,000 cash from the (retained earnings?) Please reply ASAP! Thank You.

Debit "Owners’ Draw" Nancy Owen If you see someone without a smile – give them one of your.

Response:

Try debiting Shareholder’s Loan or Owner’s Equity – whichever you prefer.

Response:

The answer is that the withdrawal is a receivable from the owner of the business, so the debit would be in a balance sheet account called "Owner’s loan" or similar.

Response:

No Matthew, If the Owner is operating the business as a sole proprietor, Debit it to ‘Drawings’… If the business is operating via a Company or Trust, Debit it to a Loan Account named….  Loan -"Person’s Name"   (If this person has loaned money to the entity…  it may even be a liability account if it finally has a credit Balance) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The answer is that the withdrawal is a receivable from the owner of the business, so the debit would be in a balance sheet account called "Owner’s loan" or similar.

Response:

Question:

It has allowed organizations to do away with large numbers of administrative and secretarial staff– at least in performance auditing (not accounting, I know). | I have to  do a presentation on the effects of computers in today’s | accounting world. I was wondering if anyone could give me a little | insight of the effects of them. Thank you! | |                              Billy |One of the biggest differences the computer has made in my life it has |allowed me to continue working

To me it is truly frightening to consider that the transition to an information society which began in the early part of this century, is nearly complete, i.e. we’re all working in offices. It is almost axiomatic that computers, especially when combined with communication abilities, will be able to perform many of the activities performed by humans in administering the economy. The danger easy to understand -you’d have to be dumb as a doorpost to miss it… we must stop accepting money for reading and viewing and analyzing numbers and data themselves.  It is a sin.  It is exploitation of your client.  The punishment shall be losing those clients, as soon as they obtain the means to obtain financial analyses electronically, to send invoices electronically, receive them and pay them electronically, etc.  Accountants want to be far away from the clerical processes as possible when that day comes. We must also be far away from reportwriting.  Reports and analyses of every variety will be available. Instead we must move to a higher level of abstraction. We must direct the computer to feed streams of data from place to place. We must configure it, manage it, negotiate with data interface providers on price/performance.   We must decide what data is sensitive, and what is not.  We must decide who will be allowed access, who should not, and how to control that. We must search for software and select wisely. We must find wellsprings of data, of business opportunity, into which to connect.  We must be alert to the trap, the closed system, the company store. There is a real good article in Atlantic Monthly this month, Francis Fukuyama, The Great Disruption.  This will take an hour or two.  Fukuyama isn’t a genius. But he raises it to a high enough vantage point to understand where we are at right now, historically. While you’re at it read Lester Thurow’s last month, http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/current/9906thurow.htm "There are no institutional substitutes for individual entrepreneurial change agents. CAPITALISM is a process of creative destruction. The new destroys the old. Both the creation and the destruction are essential to driving the economy forward. Entrepreneurs are central to the process of creative destruction; they bring the new technologies and the new concepts into active commercial use. They are the change agents of capitalism. "

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In addition to the reduction of workloads it has greatly enhanced our ability to gather information and receive it much more timely.  First if you were asked "how many new customers did we get from the southeast last month" and you had to search through all the invoices for the month and determine which ones where new then count them by hand only for your boss to then say "how much is that expressed as a percent of total customers invoiced last month".  Doing this project by hand could, depending on size take days, weeks or even months.  Yet with computers we can obtain that information with a keystroke and the report is produced.  Because this type of information can be gathered without much effort the demand for this information continues to increase.  I have yet to install a new computer system that did not increase labor requirements for the company.  While the number of clerical and data entry people inevitably decline the number of high level skilled personnel required to collect, manage, distribute and decipher this information tends to increase. Secondly because the can now be collected and reported in a timely fashion corporations can spot trends both on the rise and decline much sooner and react to those changes thus changing the direction of the company as trends change.  This reduces waste as stockouts happen less frequently and outdated stock is reduced.  The effect is lower pricing in the long run. Many stores now collect data to help predict future sales.  For example grocery stores are developing customer profiles with the use of discount cards.  They issue the cards to customers who have them scanned when they shop and thus take advantage of any computerized discounts within the store.  What the store gets is a profile of every shopping trip.  How often and what they buy.  They develop profiles of a typical shopping trip and types of items that customers are buying.  Again helping to spot trends and develop future projections.  This type of info would never have been accessible prior to the advent of technology. Don

  It has allowed organizations to do away with large numbers of   administrative and secretarial staff– at least in performance   auditing (not accounting, I know).  Auditors used to hand write report   and then turn them over to secretaries who typed them.  Few changes   were made to reports.  Now, the auditors generally write their   findings and consolidate into reports without the intervention of the   administrative and secretarial staff.  Automation allows changes for   the most petty of reasons in the pursuit of perfection.   Auditors   have more pressure to do things formerly done by others.  Auditors   now, more than ever, need writing skills.     Automated workpapers will soon feed into reports.. indeed, some may be   doing this already.  I think Air Force performance/financial auditors   may already use such techniques.     |   |   | I have to  do a presentation on the effects of computers in today’s   | accounting world. I was wondering if anyone could give me a little   | insight of the effects of them. Thank you!   |   |                              Billy   |One of the biggest differences the computer has made in my life it has   |allowed me to continue working.  Chronic health problems and severe   |repetitive stress injuries have cost me full use of my hands and health   |problems mean I tire easily and haven’t been able to work a traditional   |9-5 day in 10 yrs.   |   |I am very dependent on my computer for work.  I use voice recognition   |technology to do high volumes of data entry related to accounting, to   |dictate letters to the word processor and with some aspects of my   |spreadsheets.   |   |With my limited ability to write  and type there would be many jobs I   |could no longer do.   |   |Without the computer I would be doing a minimum wage part time job   |somewhere that didn’t require writing or heavy lifting.   |   |I have met others who are completely dependent on their voice recogntion   |system and their computer to keep a job and run a business.   |   |I also use a tape recorder and dictation/transcription machine to record   |meetings and later play back tapes which I then dictate to the computer   |to summarize my notes.   |   |KG   |   |   |Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.   **Tippy**

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I have to  do a presentation on the effects of computers in today’s accounting world. I was wondering if anyone could give me a little insight of the effects of them. Thank you!                              Billy

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I have to  do a presentation on the effects of computers in today’s accounting world. I was wondering if anyone could give me a little insight of the effects of them. Thank you!                              Billy

If you want some excellent reading on the future of computers and the internet in the accounting profession try to find archived copies of Todd Boyle’s post in this newsgroup.  

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Start with an abacus, the first true counting machine. — __Stephen Russell Memphis VFP User Group – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to  do a presentation on the effects of computers in today’s accounting world. I was wondering if anyone could give me a little insight of the effects of them. Thank you!                              Billy

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I have to  do a presentation on the effects of computers in today’s accounting world. I was wondering if anyone could give me a little insight of the effects of them. Thank you!                              Billy

One of the biggest differences the computer has made in my life it has allowed me to continue working.  Chronic health problems and severe repetitive stress injuries have cost me full use of my hands and health problems mean I tire easily and haven’t been able to work a traditional 9-5 day in 10 yrs. I am very dependent on my computer for work.  I use voice recognition technology to do high volumes of data entry related to accounting, to dictate letters to the word processor and with some aspects of my spreadsheets. With my limited ability to write  and type there would be many jobs I could no longer do. Without the computer I would be doing a minimum wage part time job somewhere that didn’t require writing or heavy lifting. I have met others who are completely dependent on their voice recogntion system and their computer to keep a job and run a business. I also use a tape recorder and dictation/transcription machine to record meetings and later play back tapes which I then dictate to the computer to summarize my notes. KG Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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