Question:

Kind of unbelievable that so much business is going on and yet there is so very little guitar music making it these days. Guitar Center, at least in Houston, isn’t all that much about guitars anymore.  Pro audio/ DJ equipment seems to rule the roost.

At the NYC Mannhattan store, the top floor is all guitar, bass, and drums. The downstairs is all keyboards, lighting, digital recording, DJ, mixers, etc. About equal space on both floors, so guitars still seem to be the biggest in terms of real estate. Doug

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kind of unbelievable that so much business is going on and yet there is so very little guitar music making it these days. Guitar Center, at least in Houston, isn’t all that much about guitars anymore.  Pro audio/ DJ equipment seems to rule the roost. At the NYC Mannhattan store, the top floor is all guitar, bass, and drums. The downstairs is all keyboards, lighting, digital recording, DJ, mixers, etc. About equal space on both floors, so guitars still seem to be the biggest in terms of real estate. Doug

It’s not just about square footage, it’s about what’s moving out the front door.  When I visit the (North Houston) store and see the same guitar inventory with the same missing parts, sporting same "mung" and the same crusty, out of tune strings that were there two or three months ago, it is fairly obvious where guitars fit in management’s priorities.

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looks like they outdid McDonalds, even Burger King..

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Apparently the sales people who work there don’t make dick for base pay…it’s all comission.

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WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Jan. 29, 2004–Guitar Center, Inc.(NASDAQ-NMS:GTRC) (Nasdaq NMS:GTRC) today reported that its net income for the fourth quarter of 2003 increased 47.1% to $19.7 million,

<snip For some real fun, post this on AGA and credit GC’s income increase to the Bush tax cuts and watch the fireworks fly.

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Kind of unbelievable that so much business is going on and yet there is so very little guitar music making it these days. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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Kind of unbelievable that so much business is going on and yet there is so very little guitar music making it these days.

Guitar Center, at least in Houston, isn’t all that much about guitars anymore.  Pro audio/ DJ equipment seems to rule the roost.

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Kind of unbelievable that so much business is going on and yet there is so very little guitar music making it these days.

Depends on how you define "making it". MTV? No music is making it there. I think talented guitarists are making good money all around the country–plenty of audience for most genres. I know I’ve spent a lot of money on CDs, books, vids of my favorite artists this year. I think genuine music is making a major comeback that is ahead of the top of the industry–it’s a broad market that doesn’t peak on individual artists as in the days of Michael Jackson. I think individual "unknown" artists like Ed Gerhardt, Stanley Clark, and many of the jazz. blues and bluegrass guitarists are making a damned comfortable living. In addition, I think the general populace is so starved for genuine music that they’ve decided to make it themselves. Of all the instruments, the guitar is the most versatile tool–beating even the keyboard in expressive capabilities. More power to Guitar Center! Some of those millions of kids just starting out are going to eventually produce some decent stuff. ti     Tom Ivers President: Equine Racing Systems, Inc. http://www.equineracing.com http://www.egroups.com/group/horsescience

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WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Jan. 29, 2004–Guitar Center, Inc.(NASDAQ-NMS:GTRC) (Nasdaq NMS:GTRC) today reported that its net income for the fourth quarter of 2003 increased 47.1% to $19.7 million, or $0.78 per diluted share, compared to net income in the fourth quarter of 2002 of $13.4 million, or $0.57 per diluted share. Net income for the year ended December 31, 2003 increased 45.9% to $36.9 million, or $1.50 per diluted share, compared to net income for 2002 of $25.3 million, or $1.09 per diluted share. As previously announced, consolidated net sales for the quarter ended December 31, 2003 increased 18.2% to $395.8 million from $334.8 million in the same period last year. Net sales for the year ended December 31, 2003 increased 15.8% to $1.275 billion compared with $1.101 billion for 2002. Marty Albertson, president and co-chief executive officer of Guitar Center, said, "We are extremely pleased with the strong performance we achieved for the quarter and the year. Solid supply chain execution enabled us to capitalize on high traffic at our Guitar Center stores and, as a result of our improved infrastructure and systems at Musician’s Friend, we were poised to take advantage of increased Internet demand. Through better execution in the retail business at American Music we were also able to generate increased sales and an operating loss slightly smaller than we had expected for those stores." Mr. Albertson continued, "Our strong financial results for the fourth quarter enabled us to meet our goal of generating positive cash flow from operations for the year. Additionally, positive cash flow resulted in our having no borrowings outstanding on our line of credit at year-end. Based on the increasing momentum in our business in the second half of 2003, we are optimistic in our view of 2004." Guitar Center Stores Turn in Strong Performance During the fourth quarter, we opened flagship Guitar Center stores in Manhattan, New York and Nashville, Tennessee, as well as a large format store in Saginaw, Michigan. This brings our total number of stores opened in 2003 to 14. As reported on January 6th, net sales from Guitar Center stores were $306.3 million for the fourth quarter, an 18.2% increase from $259.2 million reported in the same period of 2002. Comparable Guitar Center store sales increased 10% for the quarter. Sales from new stores contributed $21 million and represent 44% of the total increase in Guitar Center store sales. Net sales from Guitar Center stores for 2003 totaled $979.0 million, a 13.9% increase from $859.6 million in 2002. Comparable Guitar Center store sales for the full year increased 7%. Sales from new stores contributed $60 million and represent 51% of the total increase in Guitar Center store sales. Fourth quarter gross margin for the Guitar Center stores, after buying and occupancy costs, was 27.7% compared with 27.9% in the fourth quarter of 2002. This decrease reflects increased freight costs, partially offset by leveraging of occupancy costs. Selling, general and administrative expenses for the Guitar Center stores, inclusive of corporate general and administrative expenses, were 19.3% as a percentage of sales compared with 20.1% in the fourth quarter of 2002. The decrease reflects leveraging due to higher than expected sales, partially offset by increased advertising and insurance expenses and profit sharing plan contribution accruals. Strong Sales Growth at American Music As previously announced, net sales from American Music stores were $11.0 million for the fourth quarter, a 14.6% increase from $9.6 million generated in the fourth quarter of 2002. Comparable American Music store sales increased 12% for the quarter. Net sales from American Music stores for 2003 totaled $38.2 million, a 17.5% increase from $32.5 million in 2002. Comparable American Music store sales for the full year increased 10%. Fourth quarter gross margin for the American Music stores was 34.3% compared with 18.4% in the fourth quarter of 2002. The fourth quarter 2002 gross margin was negatively impacted by inventory adjustments. Selling, general and administrative expenses for the American Music stores were 43.4% as a percentage of sales compared with 44.2% in the fourth quarter of 2002. Selling, general and administrative expenses reflect the continued systems implementation and infrastructure build out. As a result, we incurred an operating loss of $1.0 million for the fourth quarter for these stores, which was slightly smaller than expected. Direct Response Division Continues Growth In the fourth quarter, direct response sales increased 18.9% to $78.5 million from $66.0 million in the fourth quarter of 2002. Direct response sales increased 23.6% to $257.9 million in 2003 from $208.7 million in 2002. In the fourth quarter, gross margin for the direct response division was 32.5% compared with 31.3% in the fourth quarter of 2002. The increase in gross margin resulted primarily from an increase in selling margin. Selling, general and administrative expenses for the direct response division were 20.8% in the fourth quarter compared to 20.2% in the same period last year. The increase was primarily due to higher promotional activity to drive customers to the web site. During the fourth quarter, we changed our method of accounting for the direct response division whereby we do not recognize revenue until the estimated date an order is received by the customer, instead of the date shipped. This change resulted in a reduction of approximately $3.9 million in net sales, and of approximately $546,000 in net income, or $0.02 per diluted share, for the fourth quarter. Credit Agreement Amended We took advantage of our strong financial performance and favorable credit markets to amend our credit agreement during the fourth quarter. The amendment extended the facility to December 2007, reduced the interest rate spreads, reduced most of the fees, and relaxed a number of the restrictive covenants including those relating to debt incurrence, acquisitions, stock repurchases and similar matters. In light of currently expected needs, the applicable borrowing base and our desire to minimize fees, we elected to reduce the facility size to $125 million. At December 31, 2003, no borrowings were outstanding under this facility. Business Outlook We have already opened a large format Guitar Center store in Brookfield, Wisconsin and a small format store in Mobile, Alabama in the first quarter of 2004. We expect to open additional small format stores in Ft. Meyers, Florida and Toledo, Ohio during the first quarter of 2004. Based on current business and economic conditions, we continue to expect that first quarter 2004 net sales will be in the range of $323.2 million to $333.9 million and that first quarter 2004 diluted earnings per share will be in the range of $0.31 to $0.34, consistent with the guidance we previously provided for this quarter on December 4, 2003. The comments regarding the future financial performance in the immediately preceding paragraphs constitute forward-looking statements and are made in express reliance on the safe harbor provisions contained in Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. This information, as well as other forward-looking information provided, should be read in conjunction with the information under the caption "Business Risks and Forward Looking Statements" below. Source: (NASDAQ-NMS:GTRC)

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Question:

If so were you able to import all your data? thank you

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I recently converted a company’s DacEasy customers, invoices, vendors and bills to QuickBooks US. We converted reports printed to text files to QB import files. — Karl E Irvin, CPA Arlington, Texas

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If so were you able to import all your data? thank you

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Question:

      The GAO found the FAA is hiring controllers only when experienced ones leave and is not taking into account the time it takes to fully train replacements.

And this is NEW behavior?

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      The GAO found the FAA is hiring controllers only when experienced ones leave and is not taking into account the time it takes to fully train replacements.

[rant ON] This is one of the effects you get when you try to squeeze every penny out of government costs.  They would be accused of WASTE if they hired extra controllers before the present ones retired. Many GAO reports are done at the request of a Congressional committee [or important Member] and start out with an answer, and develop "facts" to support the desired conclusion.   Just like many Beltway Bandit studies. I was once at a kickoff meeting with a Bandit.  Every time I expressed an opinion I noticed that they wrote it down.  That upset me enough that I expressed as many contradictory opinions as possible. The "incidental" parts of government (air traffic control, maps/charts, non-medical scientific research, weather data collection & forecasting, etc) represent a small part of government expenditure.  The big parts are the entitlements, Medicare, defense, agricultural subsidies, etc. which it’s nearly impossible to reduce (politically).  Thus the maybe 10% which does day-to-day things often gets hit hard. Yes there is a huge airways trust fund, but if more of it were to be spent the overall Federal deficit would be even higher.   PS: If you want to see where your hotshot local TV weather person gets most of their script, look at the "Dicussion" link to the Natl Wx Service at the bottom of your city’s page on http://www.wunderground.com. [rant OFF]

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      Report: FAA not ready for retiring air traffic controllers       WASHINGTON (CNN) –Nearly half the nation’s air traffic controllers will retire by 2010, and the Federal Aviation Administration is not doing enough to replace them, according to a report released Monday by the investigative arm of Congress.       According to the General Accounting Office report, the FAA has not developed a comprehensive plan to replace the coming wave of retirees.       The GAO found the FAA is hiring controllers only when experienced ones leave and is not taking into account the time it takes to fully train replacements.       The report also cited uncertainty about the FAA’s new aptitude test to identify good controllers.       And it said the FAA has not addressed resources it will need to ensure that new controllers are up to speed.       The FAA will need to hire another 2,000 controllers to handle increasing air traffic over the next decade, the report said.       The need for new air traffic controllers will be acute by 2010 because that is when many controllers will have reached age 56. Federal law prohibits air traffic controllers from directing traffic once they reach that age.       Many of the current controllers were hired in 1981, when President Ronald Reagan fired all the controllers who took part in an illegal nationwide strike.       The GAO said the FAA needs to time its hiring of new controllers so there is no gap, evaluate its new screening test to make sure the best candidates are identified, and look at safety and equity issues on exempting current controllers from the mandatory retirement age or 56.       According to the union representing air traffic controllers, staffing has reached a "desperate stage."       "We’ve always said controllers are like runways — it takes three to five years to make a good one," said John Carr, president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.       "We need to hire a bubble of controllers that will move our National Airspace System smoothly through the next decade without the turbulence of short staffing and its numerous associated problems."       Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/06/17/air.traffic.controllers/ind… begin 666 spacer.gif ` end

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Question:

A better question: should a product advertiser expect to use our image based on a one-off payment. This is about royalties, not salaries. Carl Again the JPC is offering residuals based on a cycle structure – it is not "a one-off payment"

Oh, no, no! The JPC is offering a $500 session fee, and that’s all. I’m surprised you weren’t aware that’s the only guaranteed payment to talent in all of the proposal. And I note you still didn’t answer my question. Carl — "The Republican Party’s idea of diversity is to have executives from different oil companies on their national ticket." – CASalonen Before you buy.

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Nope. An agency does not provide a product it provides a service. A very common distinction when identifying the nature of companys busniess. Your doctor does not sell a product he sells a service. Proctor and Gamble sells a product.  Leo Burnett sells a service. Not my opinion – a business fact.

God, you’re even stupider than Showertoy AND Ignoranus put together! You know, this is the first time that I’ve ever heard a videotape called "a service", which is precisely what the agency folk hand over to the client as the representing the finished product. Hm, maybe we should take Showertoy’s tweezers and hand them over to you, because you should probably go look for those remnants of brain you left all over the Kleenex when you sneezed last… Carl — "The Republican Party’s idea of diversity is to have executives from different oil companies on their national ticket." – CASalonen Before you buy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John this very simple but I’ll type slowly – I have always found it to be no coincidence that I am never impressed by the arguments or depth of reasoning shown my people who find it necessary to be patronizing or insulting before they have even stated their opinion. . The issue is how much money do they make when they work -not how much when they don’t. No, the issue is fair compensation in the context of the value and profit-making potential of their creative product to the agency. No, the issue is compensation (NOTE: the deletion of the subjective word ‘fair’) in the context of the supply of actors and the demand for their services by advertisers.  An author who writes one novel, over a weekend perhaps,  that sells millions of copies for his publisher, receives far more in royalties than an author who writes dozens (or who takes years to write one) that never sell. and if ten thousand authors are willing to write the same material for less, how much does that author make?  of course, an author’s sales are quantifiable,

Two authors would not write the same book, …just as two actors would not give the same performance. a commercial actor’s sales are merely claimed (and unproved) by the actor only.

No the commercial actors sales are duly noted by the ad agency that responds with a bigger media buy. Drama Queen — "Intellectuals cause a great deal of trouble trying to do it all with the mind. It is the heart that counts."             — Louise Bogan

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When an actor’s output is the product – such as a movie – the "in-demand" actors does get to participate in the profits. (if the producers agree) But a commericial is not the product but a vehicle for selling a product.

*BRRRRRRAP* Wrong-o, Yeastielittlebeastie! The commercial IS the product the ad agencies are selling to the nice clients! Nice try, and thanks for playing! Here’s a fuckbook, go join the Showertoy in the corner. Can’t miss him. He’s the one with the tweezers in his pants. Carl — "The Republican Party’s idea of diversity is to have executives from different oil companies on their national ticket." – CASalonen Before you buy.

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you are right – only a very stupid actor would a pertectage of the profit -the pencil pusher would make sure profit would never happen – but that doesn’t change the point – if you change the word profit to the phrase "revenue formula" I stand by my point.

What makes you think, in your wildest dreams, that advertisers will agree to sharing revenue with performers in exchange for their services in commercials? The idea is ludicrous. There is a complicated formula for a small profit participation in foreign theatrical vidocassette sales, but there is no way to apply something like that to commercials. If the industry wants to do away with the residuals structure and contineu to work toward a union-free internet-based transmission medium in the not so distant future, what makes you think that any facet of the industry want to allow performers to participate in profits, or begin to hold stock positions in their corporations. I can see them sweating bullets already, all those thousands of commercial actors exercising their stock options and signing their proxies over to union representatives. Yeah, like something like that would ever happen. Nope. An agency does not provide a product it provides a service. A very common distinction when identifying the nature of companys busniess. Your doctor does not sell a product he sells a service. Proctor and Gamble sells a product.  Leo Burnett sells a service. Not my opinion – a business fact.

What is it that they provide? Commercials of all forms. A service industry is one in which I provide a service to you. I pick up your laundry. I clean your house. I drive your car. I serve your meal. Grey sells advertising to advertising. That is their PRODUCT. Advertisers buy the product they create, whether print ad, audiovisual commercial, etc, and then pay to have it exhibited in various media. If you want to see what an advertising agency has done, do you walk around their facilities and watch them providing their "service." No, you ask to see a reel of the products that they have sold to other advertisers that have proved successful. If you hold a 3/4" videocassette of a Dodge Durango commercial, are you holding the product that Dodge’s ad agency has produced for them, or are you holding the service that they have provided to Dodge? Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When an actor’s output is the product – such as a movie – the "in-demand" actors does get to participate in the profits. (if the producers agree There are only a handful of actors who can demand a percentage of a motion picture’s gross revenues. Just to make sure you understand: percentage of the gross is the only meaningful compensation. Studio accounting always ensures that percentages of net revenues amount to zero. Taking a piece of a picture’s back end may sound great, but it is virtually meaningless unless a film’s revenues are stratospheric and there are no reasonable ways for a studio to hide the profits.

you are right – only a very stupid actor would a pertectage of the profit -the pencil pusher would make sure profit would never happen – but that doesn’t change the point – if you change the word profit to the phrase "revenue formula" I stand by my point. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But a commericial is not the product but a vehicle for selling a product. The actors are part of a long list of people that work on the commercial. If they want to participate in the success of the product buy some stock in the company that paid for the commercial. Maybe the actors should ask stock options in lieu of their fee. Then they can really participate. A commercial is a product. The consumer doesn’t buy it; the advertisers do. That is the market for commercials: ADVERTISERS. Perhaps this way of conceptualizing it will help you: Advertisers rent actors performances. Ad agencies compete for advertisers. Advertisers hire ad agencies, buying their services. One product they purchase is commercials extolling what it is that they sell. If the product performs successfully, increasing sales of the advertisers product, they make more use of that product and, like renting a car, pay for additional uses of that product. They only do so if they are benefitting from their purchase of that product. If the product — the commercial — fails expectations, it is dumped and in a brutal but commonplace occurrence, the advertiser "buys" another ad agency that has a better product: more successful commercials.

Nope. An agency does not provide a product it provides a service. A very common distinction when identifying the nature of companys busniess. Your doctor does not sell a product he sells a service. Proctor and Gamble sells a product.  Leo Burnett sells a service. Not my opinion – a business fact. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John this very simple but I’ll type slowly – The actors that work a lot make a lot on money – the actors that work little – make little money. The issue is how much money do they make when they work -not how much when they don’t. If an actor work three times a year, should they paid to support them the entire year? A better question: should a product advertiser expect to use our image based on a one-off payment. This is about royalties, not salaries. Carl

Again the JPC is offering residuals based on a cycle structure – it is not "a one-off payment" — "The Republican Party’s idea of diversity is to have executives from different oil companies on their national ticket." – CASalonen Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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When an actor’s output is the product – such as a movie – the "in-demand" actors does get to participate in the profits. (if the producers agree

There are only a handful of actors who can demand a percentage of a motion picture’s gross revenues. Just to make sure you understand: percentage of the gross is the only meaningful compensation. Studio accounting always ensures that percentages of net revenues amount to zero. Taking a piece of a picture’s back end may sound great, but it is virtually meaningless unless a film’s revenues are stratospheric and there are no reasonable ways for a studio to hide the profits. But a commericial is not the product but a vehicle for selling a product. The actors are part of a long list of people that work on the commercial. If they want to participate in the success of the product buy some stock in the company that paid for the commercial. Maybe the actors should ask stock options in lieu of their fee. Then they can really participate.

A commercial is a product. The consumer doesn’t buy it; the advertisers do. That is the market for commercials: ADVERTISERS. Perhaps this way of conceptualizing it will help you: Advertisers rent actors performances. Ad agencies compete for advertisers. Advertisers hire ad agencies, buying their services. One product they purchase is commercials extolling what it is that they sell. If the product performs successfully, increasing sales of the advertisers product, they make more use of that product and, like renting a car, pay for additional uses of that product. They only do so if they are benefitting from their purchase of that product. If the product — the commercial — fails expectations, it is dumped and in a brutal but commonplace occurrence, the advertiser "buys" another ad agency that has a better product: more successful commercials. Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John this very simple but I’ll type slowly – I have always found it to be no coincidence that I am never impressed by the arguments or depth of reasoning shown my people who find it necessary to be patronizing or insulting before they have even stated their opinion. . The issue is how much money do they make when they work -not how much when they don’t. No, the issue is fair compensation in the context of the value and profit-making potential of their creative product to the agency.  An author who writes one novel, over a weekend perhaps,  that sells millions of copies for his publisher, receives far more in royalties than an author who writes dozens (or who takes years to write one) that never sell.   Is it your position that it is a more equitable situation if the author is paid strictly on an hourly or per-word basis, regardless of the amount of income generated to the publisher?

When an actor’s output is the product – such as a movie – the "in-demand" actors does get to participate in the profits. (if the producers agree) But a commericial is not the product but a vehicle for selling a product. The actors are part of a long list of people that work on the commercial. If they want to participate in the success of the product buy some stock in the company that paid for the commercial. Maybe the actors should ask stock options in lieu of their fee. Then they can really participate. Perhaps rather than typing slowly, you should type quickly, and invest the time saved in actually thinking about the question.

I typed very fast and then thought and thought and thought – the answer is…. NO!!!!!! Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah thats just it!!! They haven’t heard and they don’t care because the Media is what gets peoples attention!!! It makes for a grim situation! Nah, they don’t care because commercials are not seen as something essential to their everyday life. And the idea of actors going on strike to most people is as laughable as major league athletes going on strike. HG At lease do your homework.  You probably know (or have a good idea) of the average annual major-league baseball salary.  But do you have any idea of the average annual income (from acting) of members of SAG? — Put it this way:  you probably earned more in most of the summer jobs you had while in High School. John L.

The difference in salaries between MLB players and commercial actors is irrelevent to my point. The point is that the general public doesn’t give a damn about any actors strike. HG

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Essentially the principle is the same regardless of how little most actors make from acting.  These people are not providing any kind of service to society that most people see as being tangible. Let’s face it.  The people on strike act in commercials… and while I’m sure they are seasoned professionals, it’s not like they’re picking up my garbage or keeping my water running.

Precisely, which is why this strike doesn’t resonate the way the writers strike and theatrical strike next year will. However, the "consumer" we should be targeting is the advertising clients. *They* would notice the difference. Carl — "The Republican Party’s idea of diversity is to have executives from different oil companies on their national ticket." – CASalonen Before you buy.

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John this very simple but I’ll type slowly – I have always found it to be no coincidence that I am never impressed by the arguments or depth of reasoning shown my people who find it necessary to be patronizing or insulting before they have even stated their opinion. . The issue is how much money do they make when they work -not how much when they don’t. No, the issue is fair compensation in the context of the value and profit-making potential of their creative product to the agency.

No, the issue is compensation (NOTE: the deletion of the subjective word ‘fair’) in the context of the supply of actors and the demand for their services by advertisers.  An author who writes one novel, over a weekend perhaps,  that sells millions of copies for his publisher, receives far more in royalties than an author who writes dozens (or who takes years to write one) that never sell.

and if ten thousand authors are willing to write the same material for less, how much does that author make?  of course, an author’s sales are quantifiable, a commercial actor’s sales are merely claimed (and unproved) by the actor only. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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John this very simple but I’ll type slowly – The actors that work a lot make a lot on money – the actors that work little – make little money. The issue is how much money do they make when they work -not how much when they don’t. If an actor work three times a year, should they paid to support them the entire year?

A better question: should a product advertiser expect to use our image based on a one-off payment. This is about royalties, not salaries. Carl — "The Republican Party’s idea of diversity is to have executives from different oil companies on their national ticket." – CASalonen Before you buy.

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John this very simple but I’ll type slowly –

I have always found it to be no coincidence that I am never impressed by the arguments or depth of reasoning shown my people who find it necessary to be patronizing or insulting before they have even stated their opinion. . The issue is how much money do they make when they

work -not how much when they don’t. No, the issue is fair compensation in the context of the value and profit-making potential of their creative product to the agency.  An author who writes one novel, over a weekend perhaps,  that sells millions of copies for his publisher, receives far more in royalties than an author who writes dozens (or who takes years to write one) that never sell.   Is it  your position that it is a more equitable situation if the author is paid strictly on an hourly or per-word basis, regardless of the amount of income generated to the publisher? Perhaps rather than typing slowly, you should type quickly, and invest the time saved in actually thinking about the question.

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At lease do your homework.  You probably know (or have a good idea) of the average annual major-league baseball salary.  But do you have any idea of the average annual income (from acting) of members of SAG? — Put it this way:  you probably earned more in most of the summer jobs you had while in High School.

John this very simple but I’ll type slowly – The actors that work a lot make a lot on money – the actors that work little – make little money. The issue is how much money do they make when they work -not how much when they don’t. If an actor work three times a year, should they paid to support them the entire year? Before you buy.

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Essentially the principle is the same regardless of how little most actors make from acting.  These people are not providing any kind of service to society that most people see as being tangible. Let’s face it.  The people on strike act in commercials… and while I’m sure they are seasoned professionals, it’s not like they’re picking up my garbage or keeping my water running. dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At lease do your homework.  You probably know (or have a good idea) of the average annual major-league baseball salary.  But do you have any idea of the average annual income (from acting) of members of SAG? — Put it this way:  you probably earned more in most of the summer jobs you had while in High School. John L. yeah thats just it!!! They haven’t heard and they don’t care because the Media is what gets peoples attention!!! It makes for a grim situation! Nah, they don’t care because commercials are not seen as something essential to their everyday life. And the idea of actors going on strike to most people is as laughable as major league athletes going on strike. HG

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Dan:  It’s quite likely that the media isn’t involved in the strike that is

"against" the hands that feed them. ….. to SAG’s ears.

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At lease do your homework.  You probably know (or have a good idea) of the average annual major-league baseball salary.  But do you have any idea of the average annual income (from acting) of members of SAG? — Put it this way:  you probably earned more in most of the summer jobs you had while in High School. John L. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah thats just it!!! They haven’t heard and they don’t care because the Media is what gets peoples attention!!! It makes for a grim situation! Nah, they don’t care because commercials are not seen as something essential to their everyday life. And the idea of actors going on strike to most people is as laughable as major league athletes going on strike. HG

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It is my belief that the media is not more involved in the strike because the advertisers are what pay their bills.   Anyone else care to comment? Maybe the media has been warned Penny for your thoughts!

It’s a valid point. Programs have been cancelled or modified due to advertiser pressure on the braodcasters. However, it seems unlikely to be the sole reason. Face facts, this strike isn’t really news to the general public. Carl — "The Republican Party’s idea of diversity is to have executives from different oil companies on their national ticket." – CASalonen Before you buy.

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: It is my belief that the media is not more involved in the strike because : the advertisers are what pay their bills.   Anyone else care to comment? : Maybe the media has been warned : Penny for your thoughts! : : Totally agree—-if GM was on strike for this long, everyone in the country would know about it. Karen

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yeah thats just it!!! They haven’t heard and they don’t care because the Media is what gets peoples attention!!! It makes for a grim situation!

Nah, they don’t care because commercials are not seen as something essential to their everyday life. And the idea of actors going on strike to most people is as laughable as major league athletes going on strike. HG

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yeah thats just it!!! They haven’t heard and they don’t care because the Media is what gets peoples attention!!! It makes for a grim situation!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s quite likely that the media isn’t involved in the strike that is "against" the hands that feed them.  That would make sense from an economical point of view… and since the media is driven pretty much purely to make money… However, like it or not, I’m guessing it’s because it is much more likely that the public just doesn’t care.  I mean, I’ve told probably fifteen people about the strike in casual conversations… every time I get the same reaction… they haven’t heard about it, and they really don’t care. dan It is my belief that the media is not more involved in the strike because the advertisers are what pay their bills.   Anyone else care to comment? Maybe the media has been warned Penny for your thoughts!

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It’s quite likely that the media isn’t involved in the strike that is "against" the hands that feed them.  That would make sense from an economical point of view… and since the media is driven pretty much purely to make money… However, like it or not, I’m guessing it’s because it is much more likely that the public just doesn’t care.  I mean, I’ve told probably fifteen people about the strike in casual conversations… every time I get the same reaction… they haven’t heard about it, and they really don’t care. dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is my belief that the media is not more involved in the strike because the advertisers are what pay their bills.   Anyone else care to comment? Maybe the media has been warned Penny for your thoughts!

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It is my belief that the media is not more involved in the strike because the advertisers are what pay their bills.   Anyone else care to comment? Maybe the media has been warned Penny for your thoughts!

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Question:

I got my BA the year I turned 30 and my MSIS (information systems) two years ago at the age of 41. — *Julie Holm, Northern Virginia, USA             DoD #1604 *Virago Rider, avid cross-stitcher, church musician, geek and mom *Official Armourer and Webmistress of the Nasty Girlie Gang www.ziplink.net/~holm   You can get to the NGG there if you try!!! – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - "I’m gonna live upon this earth, I’m gonna find joy in all this madness,  I’m gonna be the one that you see living here, now, and feelin’ free"                                         -The Burns Sisters

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My husband finally got his BS in ‘96 at age 53.  He is a year older than one

of his professors.  The way things are going, we’ll be paying off college loans with Social Security checks, when our only child turns 18.

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Marny here.  I am the 60 year old who is taking lessons again… the first time was 20 years ago … and stuff got in the way.  Now stuff is *still* in the way… but what the Heck!!!  I’m not going to get out of this Life alive so I might as well enjoy it to the fullest that I can achieve!!! Ahhh, where are you in relationship to Melbourne, Adeline, and Brisbane??  Where I have friends, who I met in Singapore. Gentle as you go, Marny   in sunny southern California…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My wife has just bought a piano. She had lesson when she was a child. So now I should take it up too. Not that there is anything else in my life, (Needlepoint, Masters by research, getting ready for the bushfire season, Doing what She who should be obeyed tells me — Roger Doulis (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

My wife has just bought a piano. She had lesson when she was a child. So now I should take it up too. Not that there is anything else in my life, (Needlepoint, Masters by research, getting ready for the bushfire — Roger Doulis (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform). Dept Civil Engineering (Clayton Campus)              Ph 9905-4964 Monash University                                    Fax 9905-1483 Wellington Rd. Clayton Victoria 3168 Australia

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g’day cindy, I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it!

absolutely! well done cindy! we have another ‘mature’ RCTN’er who is finishing up her degree in computer science here in Sydney. she’s just won a prize for one of her group projects. i know how hard this subject is, because i did the same degree a few years ago. so congrats rosemary!!! let us know when you need help spending your prize money on stash. cheers, pauline

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When my parents divorced, my mother went back to school.  She had originally left school at 15, and at the age of 45 returned to finish year 11 and 12. She then applied for and got a placing at the local teachers college, on the strength of her year 12 results only (not under a Special Entry Scheme) and qualified as a teacher at the age of 49.  Unfortunately, she wasn’t able to find work in schools in her area (already oversupplied) and worked instead as a cottage parent for teenagers/young adults with intellectual (and often also physical) disabilities.  After a few years, she went back to school *again*, part-time, and 15 months ago qualified as a nurse at the age of 55. She is now working as a nurse full-time, mostly taking night shifts (her shift of choice) at a local nursing home. Can you guess I’m very proud of her? Aramanth — X/AUS/H++/X3X2/2C,pond of F/X,Bw,H,N/H,S/:-X+:-D~/L/G-/W+/D/M/B/b++/ R-/S-/K/E/Nightcrawler/too many to list/RPG/apples and cheese      

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we have another ‘mature’ RCTN’er who is finishing up her degree in computer science here in Sydney. she’s just won a prize for one of her group projects. i know how hard this subject is, because i did the same degree a few years ago. so congrats rosemary!!! let us know when you need help spending your prize money on stash. cheers, pauline

Thanks Pauline, I suspect my Sydney rctn friends will have influenced me into spending the money several times over waaay before I get it. By the way, I saw those quote around the word mature. (VBG) Rosemary in Sydney

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My DH is currently going to college.  He is 35 years old, and spent the first 13 years of his post-high school life in the Navy.  He is going for an accounting degree, and working part-time, too (about 25 hours a week).  Most of the students in his classes are much younger, and many of them aren’t very serious about studying.  In Georgia, where we live, state residents can get a degree at a state university for free, as long as they maintain a B average.  DH is not eligible since we moved back here after the Navy, and he began college before becoming a resident.  But the younger kids don’t seem to appreciate what they’re being given (I sure do, because I just paid off my student loans!), and many are on the verge of failing.  They’re asking the teacher for a curve, but DH and a few others have averages of about 98, so no curve!  Maturity has a lot going for it! Karen

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I am a graduate student in philosophy and 40-something.  My best friend is a graduate student in education; he is 50-something.  Together we consitute the Immature Students Association of the University of Regina, because although we seem to be getting older (and better), we are damn well not aging! (Our respective spouses have called us the Stilll-juvenile Delinquents. among other things). FWIW, my profs and advisors seem to enjoy having me around, and the undergrads with whom I attend classes treat me as one of the group.  THe only nasty person I met was a guy older than me who was taking a class here, a class there, trying to impress all the younger women with stories about his legendary life, and couldn’t cope with the fact that I with my admittedly sorta flakey attitude came in from outside "his" discipline, got better marks although nearly blonde, and was admitted to specialized seminars that he was turned down for. Dawne,

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I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it! It’s not easy to work and go to school and raise the kids and get good grades.  Stand up and be proud of even making the effort!!!

Well, I’m 33 and have yet to finish my degree. I’ve been taking classes off and on for 15 years…sometimes going full-time, while working 12 hour shifts, and sometimes taking  just one class here and one class there.  It is hard to raise kids and go to school, keeping a 3.8 GPA.   I’m hoping that when both of my girls are in school, I can go back and finally finish up my teaching degree. It’s all I’ve ever wanted to do for as long as I can remember, and although the monetary compensation isn’t that great, the rewards are endless!   Casey =)

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you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!

Moni, it is never too late to learn anything. I dropped out of college when I had two semesters left. I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. I know I’m silly though and like everyone tells me, I’m passing it on to you: "Go for it!" I used to play piano and enter recitals. I love it as you will, I’m sure Diane

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Yes, I stopped bowling about 20 years ago and gave both my then-16-yr old daughter and myself piano lessons… our teacher was the same one that taught Billy Joel, who is from Hicksville, NY — where I lived before moving to the San Diego area almost 2 years ago.  (a run-on sentence if ever I wrote one!!!) The teacher kept switching my lessons and, after only 1 year of lessons, I had to quit.  Working 2 jobs and trying to support my children alone, meant I needed to stay sort of focused on them.  I truly missed my lessons… and am happy to have Just resumed them. And now… it is 2:53 p.m. and I will be quite late for my resumed lessons … which I began again last January. Gentle hugs, Marny   who decided my life was worth playing music for… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

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Hi, Just wanted to assure you that you’re never too old to learn.  I had a 70-year-old lady (she was an Avon customer of mine at the time) whose heart’s desire was to be able to play her hymns on a piano.  I told her I would give her free lessons.  She went out and bought an old upright.  Within 6 months she was playing her beloved hymns. By the way, I want to introduce myself.  I’ve posted a few times in answer to other questions.  My name is Marilyn, and I live on Merritt Island, FL (the home of the Kennedy Space Center).  I’ve been reading RCTN for many months now, and am very comforted and impressed as to how everyone pulls together in loves, hugs, and tragedies. I’m a cross-stitch addict also. Marilyn

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<snip Moni, it is never too late to learn anything. I dropped out of college when I had two semesters left. I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. I know I’m silly though and like everyone tells me, I’m passing it on to you: "Go for it!" I used to play piano and enter recitals. I love it as you will, I’m sure Diane

Diane, if you only knew how happy your professors are to work with mature students! You add something valuable to the group. (Now I’m really dating myself.) When I was in college in the late 40s, many of my classmates were returning GIs. Those grown men really stimulated us to work hard to keep up. It was a challenging experience, and I’m sure I was a better student because of them. Emily M.

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My mom will be 66 in February and recently not only started to take piano lessons but bought a piano to practice on  :D I’m so proud of her  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG).

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Well, if your autoharp is the ‘usual’ one you can learn to play it in about 5-10 minutes!  Find music that has guitar chords printed over the top – press the button that corresponds and strum the strings.  You’re playing!!!!!  :)   By the way – with a little experimentation you may find you can play some of your other instruments without being able to read music. My DH plays an incrediable amount of different instruments – all basically by ear.  He learned to play recorder (soprano) by just playing all the notes he could find and then just starts playing a song. . . me – I have to learn the fingering for each note and have music to read. He thinks it’s fantastic I can sightread and as you can tell – I’m awed by how he plays by ear.   Being about to read music – can be important (ie. you can’t play something by ear if you’ve never heard it) *BUT* don’t let that stop you from enjoying your music!!!  Go for it!!!! FYI – many piano teachers enjoy having older/adult students.  For one they are usually more dedicated to practicing.  Although they are over eager to get to the level where they can play ‘everything’; they are willing to do all the exercises dictated by the teacher – no matter how dumb they seem. Sonya (in Texas) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

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If I read your messages correctly, you are taking piano lessons and you are 60 years old.  If so, this gives me great hope because I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!  Music thrills me and I’m not skilled in any facet of it.  Even so, I own instruments that one day I hope to play (keyboard, accordian, autoharp, recorder, occarina – I can’t play it or spell it <VBG). RCTN has given me renewed confidence in my ability to do anything in cross stitch and my skills in that direction have grown quite a bit. I do lots and lots of other crafting including crochet, quilting, calligraphy, sketching, decorative painting on wood, scrapbooking and more.  Maybe I’m spread a bit thin but I always have something to perk my interest when another project bogs down. Welcome back to RCTN – Moni

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<snipped, but I’m not sure about who the original author was! I’ve always wanted to take up the piano "when I grow up" and I’m already grown to 46.  There’s still time!!!!!!

I just started piano lessons this fall, and I’m 38 years old.  Okay, 38 1/2.  I played the flute all through school, but it’s been a lifelong dream of mine to play the piano with *two* hands.  Since we inherited an old upright from my FIL, and my DD has been playing for 4 years now, I decided I deserved a turn, too!  I manage to squeeze in a lesson while my youngest is at preschool and practice when I can.  It’s one of the most fulfilling things I’ve ever done! -JoyceG in WA

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Moni, it is never too late to learn anything. I dropped out of college when I had two semesters left. I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. I know I’m silly though and like everyone tells me, I’m passing it on to you: "Go for it!"

*Definitely* go for it!  I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33.  I’ve never done anything I’ve been so proud of.  It taught me that I can do anything I set my mind to. I found that, with a little age and experience, I was a much better student.  I believe that living in the real world gives older students an advantage over those fresh out of high school.   Chin up – you’ll do great!!! Jacqueline Morgantown, WV

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I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school.

and Jacqueline Morgantown, WV writes:  I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33.

Well, I’ve got you both beat.  I went back to school at age 50.  I am now 53 and in March I will be done with a BA in Liberal Studies with a minor in Human Development.  Like you Jacqueline, I am extremely proud of myself. You are correct that there are advantages to having lived in the real world longer.  I enjoyed being in the classroom with younger students, some were the ages of my own children. If any of you are contemplating it, do it, it gives you a nice, fresh perspective on life and it was fun!  The instructors seemed to enjoy having a more uhmm mature student in the class also. BTW, I was rarely (except for a few morning classes) the oldest person in the class. Julie (*^_^*)

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I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33

I started back at 51 and kept going until I got a master’s degree in management at 65.  Go for it no matter what your age.  Frances

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not exactly thrilled about going back to complete when I am almost 30 and so many are fresh out of high school. and Jacqueline Morgantown, WV writes:  I started back to school at 26 and finished an engineering degree at 33. Well, I’ve got you both beat.  I went back to school at age 50.  I am now 53 and in March I will be done with a BA in Liberal Studies with a minor in Human Development.  Like you Jacqueline, I am extremely proud of myself. You are correct that there are advantages to having lived in the real world longer.  I enjoyed being in the classroom with younger students, some were the ages of my own children. If any of you are contemplating it, do it, it gives you a nice, fresh perspective on life and it was fun!  The instructors seemed to enjoy having a more uhmm mature student in the class also. BTW, I was rarely (except for a few morning classes) the oldest person in the class. Julie (*^_^*)

I had the experience of being the oldest in the class – about ten years ago when I was 20-mumble-something!  It was a night class, too, which often have more mature students.  It was a sociology class, and I was the only student who had any memory of the early 70’s. A few years later, I was in an afternoon English class.  I think the only other student there who was older than me was a woman who was in the class with her college-age daughter! I have also found myself in classes where I was older than the prof! Deb — Space is big.  Really big.  You just won’t believe how vastly, mindbogglingly big it is…. The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination. —- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

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I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it! It’s not easy to work and go to school and raise the kids and get good grades.  Stand up and be proud of even making the effort!!! — Cindy Brown Cross-stitcher, quilter, designer http://mypage.ihost.com/ClassicsInTheMaking "My candle burns at both ends. It will not last the night. But ah, my foes and oh, my friends, It gives a lovely light!"                         – Edna St. Vincent Millay

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My grandad turned 70 in August and is going to college to learn about computers!  I think it’s great! Ynara http://members.tripod.com/~Ynara/

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I got my BS in CIS at age 31 and will finish my MS in CIS right after I turn 42. Older student and damned proud of it! It’s not easy to work and go to school and raise the kids and get good grades.  Stand up and be proud of even making the effort!!!

I did my law degree starting at age 28 and the rest of the class was 18 – I think we start earlier in the UK.  At the time I was a single parent with 2 kids.   What made me feel old was that some of the young women who were away from home for the first time came to me for advice about contraception. Over the three year course I directed about a dozen women to the Morning After Pill – and guess who got pregnant in the final year!  Still that year I got a degree *and* the Princess Baby Perry.  This is the first degree in our family *ever* so they were all really proud. stef – Hounslow, England

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Question:

Palo Alto  lets you leave your car there indefinitely with no charge.  They have an unsecured parking lot at the terminal.  I left an airport car there for over a year for when I flew in. The main benefit I experience when flying instead of driving to a destination is the physical ease.  After a 4 hour drive up the 101, I’m pretty wired.   When flying, the smoothness, direct flight path, shorter actual enroute traveling time, and lack of road hazards leaves me with more mental and physical energy at the end of the commute.   True, by the time you add up two short airport drives, load/unload, and actual flight, the true time savings comes down to only 1 hour in this case–sometimes more, sometimes less.   After a while though, you get a system down, and the logistics of loading/unloading, preflight, and shutdown become familiar and regular. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who replied.  One last question that some PAO locals could answer is how difficult is it to maintain a vehicle near PAO that I could drive to work in.  Is there a nearby garage? Would airport parking be prohibitive?  Is it possible to rent a space (auto space, that is) with the FBO? With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. If I come to my senses, maybe I might just live nearer work, eat the high cost, and build that KIS Cruiser I’ve had my eye on in the garage, instead of buying a factory airplane. stan

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So I was thinking of perhaps living in Gilroy, and basing off Reid Hillview, or Half Moon Bay, and flying in to Palo Alto. When I was there, the traffic from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale seemed bearable even at rush hour.  This way I get to live somewhere uncrowded and not have to deal with long rush hour commutes either. Does anyone have any ideas?  Do real estate prices become more reasonable near the coastside at Half Moon Bay, or near Gilroy? Are there any other airports worth considering?  Are the airports expensive to park at?

Why not base at South County airport in San MArtin? Closer to Gilroy, generally better weather and cheaper to boot. If your work is close to Moffett, PAO is just up the road…pete

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+ Capt Zombo made several good points and then he said: + Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a + week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane + every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping + $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the + aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, + insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the + additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t + make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional + commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years. + + Which got me going for a minute, but then I remembered that operating + costs are only gas and oil, which for a 172 is more like $17/hour. With + 300 hours this is $5,100 per year. Compare this to driving a car 100 + miles/day for 300 days, i.e., 30,000 miles. At 15 mpg that’s $2,000 plus + 10 oil changes, so the operating costs are only about twice as expensive + to drive an airplane. Absolutely not true. There’s things like the contribution to the overhaul of the engine. For a typical C172 that’s an O-320. Complete overhaul of such an engine is something like $12k. Even if one was able to get 2,000 hours on a motor – that’s $6/hour right there.  Buying a plane with only 500 TBO escalates that per hour cost considerably. There’s also the typical annual expenses that can reach a couple of thousand dollars. While some of the items are fixed costs that are unrelated to how many hours you put on the plane, many are items such as tires, brakes, etc. that are directly related to the number of hours you fly. I own my own plane and was a board officer in a flying club for years. Believe me – you can’t operate a C172 for $17/hour. + + On the other hand, you will "save" the time difference between driving + and flying, e.g., SJC-061 by car is 3 hrs and by airplane is 1-1/2 hours + so you can credit yourself this amount at your hourly rate, or what you + value family time, etc. …more somewhat faulty arithmetic.  SJC-061 may be three hours by car and 1.5 by plane, but you’re ignoring the preflight, departure and arrival holds, the drive to/from each airport and destination, and the transfer time moving things from vehicle to vehicle. I’ll bet you’d routinely lose that 1.5 hours. There’s another point worth mentioning. If the Silicon Valley business is not closely located near the local airport – there’s STILL a commute to deal with in the Silicon Valley. Landing at PAO and then driving to a business in San Jose is not a breeze of a drive.

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+ by putting my PPL to good use.  Yes, the airplane would be expensive, + but flying’s expense is high any way you look at it!  I hope the + 3 times a week flying to work doesn’t pale on me after a while, + but I think it would be a real blast for us people who love flying. …but you also might find that you’d love flying a lot less if it was something you did routinely as part of your commute.

Getting out there in the cold nasty weather and getting routed and vecttored all over gods creation on a nice Ifr Day or night if you plan to fly home to. But hey I’ve done it and I never regreted it once but I am glad I had a ME airplane to go IFR in.  It cost me $62 hr to operate my Travel Air including my maint/overhaul setaside and in the 8 years I’ve had it, it has doubled in it’s resale value.  Not to shabby.  You never save money flying single person in a plane and its hard to do it on a tight regular schedule, therefore it really doesn’t  save you clock time because of the buffer time you have to leave yourself for what ever comes up.  But the traffic you miss and the time building you do is great if your trying for an aviation career as you will fly in all weather (carfull in Known Ice even with a Kice plane).  So it all depends on your justification.  If you say its so you can buiild time for an airline job, GoFor It If your justifying it by cost or time efficiency, your kidding yourself.:(  If your justification is "Well hell I love this $#it, my family is eating,and I can afford this, I don’t care if I do have to get up an hour earlier in the morning and get home later at night, damnit I Wanna Fly! well then who an argue with that:) Get a good plane with modern instruments and good IRF stack in it (one of those electric backup vacuum supplys is a good idea), have a mechanic you trust go over it with a fine tooth comb and have it fixed as an aircraft is always at one stage of broken or another, and start having fun!

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+ by putting my PPL to good use.  Yes, the airplane would be expensive, + but flying’s expense is high any way you look at it!  I hope the + 3 times a week flying to work doesn’t pale on me after a while, + but I think it would be a real blast for us people who love flying. …but you also might find that you’d love flying a lot less if it was something you did routinely as part of your commute.

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Of the half dozen people that I personally know who have left decent paying jobs in Livermore/Pleasanton valley for higher paying jobs in the Silicon Valley, only one is truly happy with the move (BTW – he’s the one that doesn’t commute).

Living in Pleasanton and driving to Fremont is not too bad (0.5-0.75hr commute), but going all the way to San Jose/Mtn View etc. would be unacceptable for me. Fremont does have quite a few companies. There is a quality of life component you need to include when making a decision to work in Silicon Valley which includes how much time you are going to be spending on the road each day and how much that’s costing you. Nope. Silicon Valley is not for me. The commute is horrific. Housing costs are outrageous. The companies, in general, have a lot of staff turnover and there is really very little committment to the individual employees. More often than not, the small upstart companies fail within a couple of years.

This bothers me sometimes. A lot of people switch jobs to get quick raises and the lure of quick money with stock options. Little loyalty to the companies. The companies in turn also have little commitment – unfortunately a vicious circle. The press is full of success stories such as Netscape, but rarely mentions the failures  of companies like Kubota Pacific. I had an offer to work for Kubota. At the time, it was a huge increase in salary for me. Kubota was also bankrupt six months after that offer was made. I’m glad I didn’t take it.

The hardware/semiconductor business can be trying these days! I applaud you for trying to find an alternate commuting path, but I don’t think it’s realistic given the high costs of operating an aircraft, the consistently overcast and foggy Bay Area, and the distance you would need to go to really see a significant drop in the housing costs.

Some airline pilots live in places like Pine Mtn Lake and other Sierra foothill communities. For them it makes perfect sense, fly to San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose, no parking problems, hop into your commuter airline/jet whatever, "aircraft-pool" as necessary since everybodys destination is pretty much the same. You are IFR rated (and beyond), flying to work is like any other flight, increases your skills for your job. Probably works out cheaper if 3 or 4 pilots do this regularly. Moreover since you work only 3 to 4 times a week, you don’t rack up too much time ony your plane as opposed to a daily commute. Sriram PP-ASEL out of LVK

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Capt Zombo made several good points and then he said: Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years.

Which got me going for a minute, but then I remembered that operating costs are only gas and oil, which for a 172 is more like $17/hour. With 300 hours this is $5,100 per year. Compare this to driving a car 100 miles/day for 300 days, i.e., 30,000 miles. At 15 mpg that’s $2,000 plus 10 oil changes, so the operating costs are only about twice as expensive to drive an airplane. On the other hand, you will "save" the time difference between driving and flying, e.g., SJC-061 by car is 3 hrs and by airplane is 1-1/2 hours so you can credit yourself this amount at your hourly rate, or what you value family time, etc. As to the "fixed" costs: insurance costs are comparable, finance costs are more for an airplane loan, i.e., about 10% (that’s why you buy it for cash out of the money you would have put into a more expensive house). Parking and tiedown are comparable if you pay to park in a city. Maintenance is probably three to five times that for a car, comparing 172 annuals to 30,000/60,000 mile checkups for my Chevy. It may not be the cheapest way to go, but it is worth it to some folks. –Dan Arias — San Jose, California, USA

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Thanks to all who replied.  One last question that some PAO locals could answer is how difficult is it to maintain a vehicle near PAO that I could drive to work in.  Is there a nearby garage? Would airport parking be prohibitive?  Is it possible to rent a space (auto space, that is) with the FBO? With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. If I come to my senses, maybe I might just live nearer work, eat the high cost, and build that KIS Cruiser I’ve had my eye on in the garage, instead of buying a factory airplane. stan

Response:

+ With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking + it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving + distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. + Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work + out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you + Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. …or you could simply choose not to work in Silicon Valley. Really. You do have a choice and working in the Valley is not all it’s cracked up to be. If you really detest traffic congestion, you’re not going to enjoy Silicon Valley commuting. It’s bad and all but guaranteed to get worse. Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years. When several of my colleagues left to work for Silicon Valley, there was no end to the bragging over the salary increases they were receiving to make the move. In less than two years, two of the three companies they jumped to have folded and the third has made significant staffing reductions. The bulk of their salary increases were eaten up by higher housing costs, or completely offset by the lost time spent in oppressive commutes. Of the half dozen people that I personally know who have left decent paying jobs in Livermore/Pleasanton valley for higher paying jobs in the Silicon Valley, only one is truly happy with the move (BTW – he’s the one that doesn’t commute). There is a quality of life component you need to include when making a decision to work in Silicon Valley which includes how much time you are going to be spending on the road each day and how much that’s costing you.   Another thing to consider is that while you can generally get higher job offers from Silicon Valley companies, there is a price. The people I know who left for 50% salary increases are also regularly working 70-hour work weeks. That’s a net decrease in per hour compensation. Nope. Silicon Valley is not for me. The commute is horrific. Housing costs are outrageous. The companies, in general, have a lot of staff turnover and there is really very little committment to the individual employees. More often than not, the small upstart companies fail within a couple of years. The press is full of success stories such as Netscape, but rarely mentions the failures  of companies like Kubota Pacific. I had an offer to work for Kubota. At the time, it was a huge increase in salary for me. Kubota was also bankrupt six months after that offer was made. I’m glad I didn’t take it. I applaud you for trying to find an alternate commuting path, but I don’t think it’s realistic given the high costs of operating an aircraft, the consistently overcast and foggy Bay Area, and the distance you would need to go to really see a significant drop in the housing costs. Good luck!

Response:

+ it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving + distance away BTW – living 1-1.5 hours driving from Silicon Valley is not that far away…. a typical cummute from Pleasanton to Mountain View can routinely be over an hour.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – + With the low level stratus being such a factor, I am thinking + it might actually be a good idea to live 1-1.5 hours driving + distance away, and fly maybe 1/2 the time, drive the other 1/2. + Since I can telecommute part of the time, it might actually work + out for me.  The 1.5 hour driving time may not seem much to you + Bay Area folks, but I really detest traffic congestion. …or you could simply choose not to work in Silicon Valley. Really. You do have a choice and working in the Valley is not all it’s cracked up to be. If you really detest traffic congestion, you’re not going to enjoy Silicon Valley commuting. It’s bad and all but guaranteed to get worse.

This is an option also, I guess.  However, the reason for moving to Silicon Valley is that my company is being acquired by a Silicon Valley company.  There’s shares to be gained in accepting an employment agreement after the acquisition, as well as the salary increase, of course.   Whether the increase offsets the problems gained is itself a problem, as you correctly point out.  I am trying to find out if I can at least fix some of the problems – mainly lessening the commute problem by putting my PPL to good use.  Yes, the airplane would be expensive, but flying’s expense is high any way you look at it!  I hope the 3 times a week flying to work doesn’t pale on me after a while, but I think it would be a real blast for us people who love flying. Even if you were able to limit the flying to 3 trips a week, you’d be looking at putting over 300 hours on a plane every year. At operating costs of $40/hour, that’s a whopping $12,000/year (after tax dollars) in just the operation of the aircraft alone, nevermind the fixed expenses (capitol cost, insurance, tiedown at one airport, hangar at another) and the additional vehicle. Saving $100k on a home purchase doesn’t make sense when the savings would be offset by the additional commute expenses that would accrue in just a few years.

This is true, and was not well thought out on my end.  I’ll have to do some solid accounting for salary increase, subtract the housing and airplane and per hour costs, and try to figure if I’m better or worse off. Nope. Silicon Valley is not for me. The commute is horrific. Housing costs are outrageous. The companies, in general, have a lot of staff turnover and there is really very little committment to the individual employees. More often than not, the small upstart companies fail within a couple of years.

Luckily enough for me, the acquiring entity is a large, established company.  Although that doesn’t mean it’ll keep it’s doors open a long time, there’s a good chance it won’t go belly up any time soon. The press is full of success stories such as Netscape, but rarely mentions the failures  of companies like Kubota Pacific. I had an offer to work for Kubota. At the time, it was a huge increase in salary for me. Kubota was also bankrupt six months after that offer was made. I’m glad I didn’t take it. I applaud you for trying to find an alternate commuting path, but I don’t think it’s realistic given the high costs of operating an aircraft, the consistently overcast and foggy Bay Area, and the distance you would need to go to really see a significant drop in the housing costs.

Your estimation and the well reasoned replies I got from everyone on the group indicates that this is probably the case.  Sigh. I was really hoping that it would be possible to combine flying and work, and use the flying to make the commute less odious, and live somewhere nice and affordable also.  It isn’t looking that way. Good luck!

Thanks, Capt! stan

Response:

I was just out there, and flew in to SJC, and was quite excited to see GA airplanes in SJC, alongside all the big jets.  I read later that the city wants to expand the airport and thus want to remove the GA population.  This is quite disheartening.

Same thing is occuring at a bunch of expanding airports (MHT for an example). Same thing has occured at a bunch of expanded airports, who now wish they could have GA back, since the scheduled airline traffic never materialized to a profitable extent (ORH for example). What I can’t really see is that GA ends up being a terrible inconvenience to airline users at the "moderately" busy airports. (And thus, unable to see the huge inconvenience that we apparently cause, can’t see the *airport*’s rush to kick us off. I can of course see that the FBO’s might prefer to sell fuel 500 gallons at a time, rather than the 50 I buy…) —Jim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip Other people have suggested eastward places, such as Cameron Airpark near Sacramento.  I wonder what people think of southward places like Monterey Bay?  That’s about 55 miles away, no complicated airspace to worry about, and a straight shot to PAO. Snip You’ll be faced with the same conditions at Monterey as the Bay area in regards to low level stratus —- only worse.  Monterey in the summer is much worse than the Bay area.  A couple of years ago we had 29 days in July that did not clear.  Montery ceiling is typically 200-600 OVK in mist.  Temp/dewpoint spread can be within a couple of degrees for a fair portion of the year.

With a IFR rating, getting into and out of MRY is pretty comfortable.  It really is gorgeous breaking out from the bright sun on top, out of the fog and seeing the MRY coastline and the approach lights. As I don’t particularly like ATC to vector me way out over the water for the ILS, I usually request to fly it "pilot-nav" which keeps me mostly over land, but takes about 5 minutes longer. Even Watsonville (WVI) has much better weather than Monterey on a consistent basis.  WVI only has an NDB approach and ceilings can be too low for that.

WVI also has a LOC approach and a VOR approach.  I believe the mins of the VOR approach off SNS is 1300, but I don’t recall the other mins.  I heard that someone crashed into LOC a while back, but I assume it has been fixed by now. BTW: MRY is Class C, SNS is Class D, and WVI isn’t. Hilton Stellar Semiconductor, Inc. 2355 Oakland Road, suite 1, San Jose, CA 95131 Tel: 408-955-9663 x154, Fax: 408-955-9671 http://www.stellarsemi.com

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Even Watsonville (WVI) has much better weather than Monterey on a consistent basis.  WVI only has an NDB approach and ceilings can be too low for that. WVI also has a LOC approach and a VOR approach.  I believe the mins of the VOR approach off SNS is 1300, but I don’t recall the other mins.  I heard that someone crashed into LOC a while back, but I assume it has been fixed by now.

The MDA of the LOC approach is 680 (about 500 AGL by the time you reach the airport). My CFII was in the right seat in the aircraft that plowed through the LOC antenna.  He had no official capacity on the flight, particularly since the right seat was broken and had to stay all the way back in the tracks.  He said it was quite a ride. The FAA was apparently going to replace it anyhow, but they moved the schedule up a bit.  It’s been functioning since late last fall… SNS is usually the last to go under of the three, but you get the added joy of the 20 mile downwind on the ILS…

Response:

Snip Other people have suggested eastward places, such as Cameron Airpark near Sacramento.  I wonder what people think of southward places like Monterey Bay?  That’s about 55 miles away, no complicated airspace to worry about, and a straight shot to PAO.

Snip You’ll be faced with the same conditions at Monterey as the Bay area in regards to low level stratus —- only worse.  Monterey in the summer is much worse than the Bay area.  A couple of years ago we had 29 days in July that did not clear.  Montery ceiling is typically 200-600 OVK in mist.  Temp/dewpoint spread can be within a couple of degrees for a fair portion of the year.  Even Watsonville (WVI) has much better weather than Monterey on a consistent basis.  WVI only has an NDB approach and ceilings can be too low for that. Basically, if you want to live in paradise you have to pay for it somehow.  Either (A) Long commute (B) High housing cost (C) No jobs in the area (not a Bay area problem right now) (D) Earthquakes (E) Volcanos (F) Hurricanes (G) Unstable governments (H) all of the above Dan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc. I didn’t know that! Actually, it’s not that bad.  In fact, with SJC moving about 60% of the GA planes based there out to RHV, Q99, PAO, HWD, and LVK, it’s going to be much harder for the county to close down RHV.  

I was just out there, and flew in to SJC, and was quite excited to see GA airplanes in SJC, alongside all the big jets.  I read later that the city wants to expand the airport and thus want to remove the GA population.  This is quite disheartening. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried earlier to send my thoughts about commuting by air from outlying areas, but my mailer was not being too cooperative.  Here’s the summary, however: If you are going to live in Gilroy (or Morgan Hill, or San Martin), Q99 (South County Airport, San Martin) is a better place to commute from than RHV.  And I would much prefer San Martin or Morgan Hill to Gilroy as a place to live.  A friend of mine who lives in Gilroy complains about frequent shots fired in his neighborhood. Hollister is also a nice choice; further South, but a pretty good airport (only a GPS approach to it, though.) Better is going East, as so many auto commuters are doing.  Tracy, Byron, Stockton all have airports, and instrument approaches (Byron’s is GPS only, though).  There are very nice new housing developments there, and many who cannot afford a house here in the Bay Area can readily get into one there. Napa or even Petaluma are also possible, but they seem much further to PAO, and you would be going through SFO Class B airspace to get there.  If you go on an instrument flight plan every time, that’s probably not too much of a problem, except that you will be vectored all over the place, in all probability.  And going around it VFR would not be a lot better.  The best way to do that is below 3000′, out the gate, and stay 10 nm from SFO, but that puts you over water at 3000′ which may not seem like a good idea to you (it doesn’t to me).

This was a concern of mine, with the class B in the path between any northerly approaches to PAO.   Other people have suggested eastward places, such as Cameron Airpark near Sacramento.  I wonder what people think of southward places like Monterey Bay?  That’s about 55 miles away, no complicated airspace to worry about, and a straight shot to PAO. Intriguing ideas, though, and maybe moving out there is the way *I* can afford a plane and do the same thing! Kim Helliwell

stan

Response:

+ I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the + possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the + San Francisco Bay Area.   Expect a lot of IFR-only mornings. A marine layer and fog routinely envelopes the Bay Area which would make morning VFR operations impractical. If you are going to fly in, you’ll need to fly futher than Gilroy to make the price differential worthwhile.  Larger, less expensive home are available in the Central Valley (which itself is enveloped in Tule fog for many weeks during the winter). You might consider going north rather than south (Petaluma, Napa Valley, Santa Rosa, etc.). or east (Stockton, Modesto, Tracy, even perhaps Livermore). Half Moon Bay is nice – but the coastal fog can limit your operations into and out of HAF year round and throughout the day. There is no localizer at HAF, so IFR is difficult (is it even possible?). Palo Alto is accessable. But tiedowns are few and if you’re flying in daily and using the transient tiedowns, they may start charging you a daily tiedown fee. Moffett is out – it’s not a public use airport. I don’t know what it would take to get a PPR to use the facility on a daily basis. If you’re really going to work for a Silicon Valley company, there are a number of companies that are a lot more enlightened about telecommuting. If you were only required to show up a couple of days a week – flying in can be more cost effective. Heck – I’d even consider flying in from Truckee or any of a number of Sierra foothill communities. Another choice would be to buy at someplace like Cameron Air Park or Sacramento Metro where properties are available where you can taxi to your home/hangar. Good luck..

Response:

Does anyone have any ideas?  Do real estate prices become more reasonable near the coastside at Half Moon Bay, or near Gilroy? Are there any other airports worth considering?  Are the airports expensive to park at?

I think commuting by air only makes sense in the Bay area if you fly more than 50 miles, since at shorter distances you can usually get there more quickly by car.  The minimum reasonable door-to-door commute time which involves an airplane is at least an hour (recall that you have to get to and from the airport, pre-flight and depart, fly the en route part, and arrive and tiedown). We have tiedowns at San Jose and Cameron Park (about 35 miles east of Sacramento) and we fly to CP on the weekends. The CP area housing prices were actually depressed 3-4 years ago, but now housing prices are going up as the area is become a suburb of Sacramento (although they are still lower than in the Bay Area). I suspect it’s not hard to buy a house, an airplane, an extra car, and park them at CP, Placerville, Auburn, or Grass Valley for less than it would cost to buy many houses in the Bay area. Tiedown fees are probably on a par with parking in San Francisco. The problem is that you still have a 1-1/2 hour commute door-to-door, so unless you really like flying every day, it would make more sense to have a place to stay in the Bay Area and do the commute once or twice a week. There will be times when you can’t fly because of the weather and lack of instrument approaches, particularly in the winter, so having a job that allows flex-time or telecommuting is advisable. The ideal job is probably being an off-site consultant, or outside salesperson. There are logistical issues: now you have two or more vehicles, and perhaps some number of people, to coordinate and maintain. San Jose and Palo Alto on the penninsula, and Hayward and Oakland on the east bay, are the only airports in the area with instrument approaches for GA. There are other issues like the fact that San Jose seems to be pushing out GA, Palo Alto is overcrowded, Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc. The upshot is that it’s doable, but requires exceptional fortitude or an exceptional working/living situation. Good luck, –Dan Arias — San Jose, California, USA

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I think commuting by air only makes sense in the Bay area if you fly more than 50 miles, since at shorter distances you can usually get there more quickly by car.  The minimum reasonable door-to-door commute time which involves an airplane is at least an hour (recall that you have to get to and from the airport, pre-flight and depart, fly the en route part, and arrive and tiedown).

I hadn’t considered living that far afield, actually.  I was only considering airports within some small distance from Palo Alto. I was hoping that the total flying time would be 1/2 hour, allowing a short 15-20 minute drive from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale. Perhaps living in Monterey or Napa becomes something I should consider. There will be times when you can’t fly because of the weather and lack of instrument approaches, particularly in the winter, so having a job that allows flex-time or telecommuting is advisable. The ideal job is probably being an off-site consultant, or outside salesperson.

This is actually possible.  The company has flex time and lots of people telecommute one day or so a week.  It may make the driving more bearable.   Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc.

I didn’t know that! The upshot is that it’s doable, but requires exceptional fortitude or an exceptional working/living situation. Good luck, –Dan Arias — San Jose, California, USA

The advice from everyone here has been very helpful.  Thanks to all. stan

Response:

Santa Clara is trying to close down Reid-Hillview, etc. I didn’t know that!

Actually, it’s not that bad.  In fact, with SJC moving about 60% of the GA planes based there out to RHV, Q99, PAO, HWD, and LVK, it’s going to be much harder for the county to close down RHV.  About a year or two ago, there was a celebrated vote about whether to close or not, and the swing vote switched sides  and the decision was to keep it open.  And now, there are plans afoot to make several improvements, including adding hangar and tie down space, lengthening runways, etc.  There is no firm plan, and no money has been allocated, but these things are in the talking stages, according to one of the airport managers I talked to. RHV is of special interest to AOPA, along with several other Bay Area airports, and any move now to close it down would raise a huge protest and backlash. I think (for the moment at least) that the people most interested in closing it have taken their best shot, lost, and are quieted down.  Not to be complacent about it, but I don’t think RHV is in any immediate danger. I tried earlier to send my thoughts about commuting by air from outlying areas, but my mailer was not being too cooperative.  Here’s the summary, however: If you are going to live in Gilroy (or Morgan Hill, or San Martin), Q99 (South County Airport, San Martin) is a better place to commute from than RHV.  And I would much prefer San Martin or Morgan Hill to Gilroy as a place to live.  A friend of mine who lives in Gilroy complains about frequent shots fired in his neighborhood. Hollister is also a nice choice; further South, but a pretty good airport (only a GPS approach to it, though.) Better is going East, as so many auto commuters are doing.  Tracy, Byron, Stockton all have airports, and instrument approaches (Byron’s is GPS only, though). There are very nice new housing developments there, and many who cannot afford a house here in the Bay Area can readily get into one there. Napa or even Petaluma are also possible, but they seem much further to PAO, and you would be going through SFO Class B airspace to get there.  If you go on an instrument flight plan every time, that’s probably not too much of a problem, except that you will be vectored all over the place, in all probability.  And going around it VFR would not be a lot better.  The best way to do that is below 3000′, out the gate, and stay 10 nm from SFO, but that puts you over water at 3000′ which may not seem like a good idea to you (it doesn’t to me). Intriguing ideas, though, and maybe moving out there is the way *I* can afford a plane and do the same thing! Kim Helliwell

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Byron is a good choice.  There’s a fellow sometimes in this ng who commutes from there in a mooney.  He mentioned before that it is good since it’s a driveable commute when the weather is terrible, about several times per year.   He flys into San Jose. I was paying 85/mo at pao for a tie down.  There were 4 people at my work who used to commute from Sacramento daily. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two thoughts about commuting in the Bay Area: 1) This will entail alot of IFR departures and approaches, at least through stratus all summer.  Although there are appraoches at PAO & HAF I don’t know if they are practical daily at commute times (flying out of  SQL is generally an OAK approach and scud running across the bay).  PAO could easily work the sameway from SJC/Moffett.  Hopefully some of the HAF/PAO "locals" will respond. Tie down $’s will be $100/month at each end.  Hangars not generally available and $300+. 2) Learn alot more about Bay Area real estate!  Price is certainly an issue but Gilroy vs Half Moon Bay is about different worlds – one is dry and hot ala Southern CA, the other coastal cold wet and foggy.  If you are going to fly you could expand your horizon to Napa, central valley (Rio Vista to Modesto), Salinas since the additional time en route would be trivial compared to preflight, tieing down… Do you have to show up physcially everyday?  People do drive from Stockton for instance. I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the San Francisco Bay Area.  

Response:

Two thoughts about commuting in the Bay Area: 1) This will entail alot of IFR departures and approaches, at least through stratus all summer.  Although there are appraoches at PAO & HAF I don’t know if they are practical daily at commute times (flying out of  SQL is generally an OAK approach and scud running across the bay).  PAO could easily work the sameway from SJC/Moffett.  Hopefully some of the HAF/PAO "locals" will respond.  Tie down $’s will be $100/month at each end.  Hangars not generally available and $300+. 2) Learn alot more about Bay Area real estate!  Price is certainly an issue but Gilroy vs Half Moon Bay is about different worlds – one is dry and hot ala Southern CA, the other coastal cold wet and foggy.  If you are going to fly you could expand your horizon to Napa, central valley (Rio Vista to Modesto), Salinas since the additional time en route would be trivial compared to preflight, tieing down… Do you have to show up physcially everyday?  People do drive from Stockton for instance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the San Francisco Bay Area.  

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I was hoping some of you here will give some insight into the possibility of commuting to work (by flying, of course!) in the San Francisco Bay Area.   It’s likely that I will be relocating to the Bay Area for a job in Sunnyvale.  Now with the astronomical real estate prices and road congestion, I was considering living somewhere further away, and commuting by flying in.  I’d really appreciate some advice from any of you who either do this, have thought about it, or just know the area well enough to have an opinion. There seem to be several airports within close flying distance but are located far enough away from the sprawl of Silicon Valley. The office is near Moffett Field, but that’s not GA-friendly. So I was thinking of perhaps living in Gilroy, and basing off Reid Hillview, or Half Moon Bay, and flying in to Palo Alto. When I was there, the traffic from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale seemed bearable even at rush hour.  This way I get to live somewhere uncrowded and not have to deal with long rush hour commutes either. Does anyone have any ideas?  Do real estate prices become more reasonable near the coastside at Half Moon Bay, or near Gilroy? Are there any other airports worth considering?  Are the airports expensive to park at? stan

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Question:

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We are a construction firm looking to get a new accounting system.  We would like a Windows 95 based, with Windows NT Server accounting system.  We will set up the computers, we just need someone to write the accounting software for us.  Any interested, qualified parties…E-mail us at

You may make a TERRIBLE mistake. I have known many good programmers in 35 years of heavy computer and construction experience. For 10 years I helped a programming genius spend thousands of hours on a construction program. He accurately allocated costs to company projects, phases, buildings and units in uniquely fast ways. However, his program never had commercial features and reliability. When the boss saw how much the custom program increased accounting fees, and used QuickBooks to "drill down" reports to correct errors, the old program was history. To put things in perspective, QuickBooks is probably now spending more on final tests of its multi-user program than the gross sales of your company. Many programs, including construction programs, are far more powerful than QuickBooks. You can get modifiable source code for complete Access and Fox programs (SBT). This will provide more safety, reliability and far faster and more accurate returns than any custom program. Why risk your business, by effectively going into the programming business, when you know nothing about it? Mike Block, C.P.A. Tax Fighter, QuickBooks Professional Advisor 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33334;  954-566-7540       biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news!            Demanding voter approval of tax increases!

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I have to agree with Mike (with qualification). There are too many good, customizable accounting applications out there today. You could never justify the cost/benefit of a totally custom solution. Unless you are fairly small and uncomplicated, you probably won’t be happy with Quickbooks – it has some super features and great usability, but it gets terribly slow with a large load of data and it does have some undesirable quirks (for example, in the payroll employee management area). Plus you will have to wait a while to get the networked version – which will be a Version 1 (but based on a good beta test). And if you were thinking that it interfaces with the TurboTax for business as a selling point – NOT on NT. In fact nobody should recommend any product to you without first conducting a requirements analysis to determine your critical needs – both from an accounting perspective and your other overlapping interactions (e.g., HR, sales, payroll and remote site operations… how does it fit in the larger picture). There is a company out of Ft Wayne, IN (SolutionPoint) that has experience in this type of research-recommendation process (NT networks and accounting systems in particular) and has a national presence. Small company, but good rates and an abundance of talent. Web site: www.solutionpoint.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are a construction firm looking to get a new accounting system.  We would like a Windows 95 based, with Windows NT Server accounting system.  We will set up the computers, we just need someone to write the accounting software for us.  Any interested, qualified parties…E-mail us at

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You’ve "gotta lot of moxy, son". Having done lots of such software development over the last 20+ years, I’m definitely qualified.  But I wouldn’t touch it.  And you shouldn’t either. Are you SURE you want to do this?  After all, there are tens of excellent packages out there to do what you want to do.  It is a serious mistake to take off developing a system unless you have determined that there (1) is not an existing system that will do what you want to do, and (2) you cannot possibly change your way of doing things to accommodate an existing system somewhere. Not to get on my soapbox, but this kind of development project makes very little sense.  It will be long, drawn-out, bug-ridden, and expensive. After that, you’ve got ongoing maintenance from now until perpetuity.   Do yourself a favor.  Go find a package that does 80% of what you want to do, and buy it (perhaps with the help of a good systems consultant). Change your internal ways of doing things to accommodate it.   David Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are a construction firm looking to get a new accounting system.  We would like a Windows 95 based, with Windows NT Server accounting system.  We will set up the computers, we just need someone to write the accounting software for us.  Any interested, qualified parties…E-mail us at

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    I have to agree with Mike on this point:  "You are making a terrible mistake!"  I am not familiar, Peachtree is dominant in my area.  What I have done for a few of my clients is integrate MS-Access or Paradox with Peachtree.  Peachtree and QB or both btrieve databases which means they are OBDC databases.  Which means you can Link data from other OBDC databases to these accounting packages.     To give you an example of what I have done, my client wanted a contract system where they would write the contracts to purchase and sell material.  The quantity would be the same for the sales invoice and the purchase order.  So, in Access, they would enter the contract agreements.  As the shipments took place, the vendor would deliver the material to the customer.  This would be tracked in the system as a broker.  They would enter the data one time in Access.  Access would feed the information in Peachtree to the sales, purchase, and freight based on the terms of the contract.  This allowed Access to perform custom reports, such as position reports (the position of the contracts) and custom invoicing.  It also allowed Peachtree to do what it does well, receive cash, pay bills, financial reporting ,payroll, etc.  By having the two linked, there is no reason to double enter the data. — Covey Accounting Service, L.L.C. http://user.centralnet.net/dcovey      Accounting and database specialist. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are a construction firm looking to get a new accounting system. We would like a Windows 95 based, with Windows NT Server accounting system. We will set up the computers, we just need someone to write the accounting software for us.  Any interested, qualified parties…E-mail us at You may make a TERRIBLE mistake. I have known many good programmers in 35 years of heavy computer and construction experience. For 10 years I helped a programming genius spend thousands of hours on a construction program. He accurately allocated costs to company projects, phases, buildings and units in uniquely fast ways. However, his program never had commercial features and reliability. When the boss saw how much the custom program increased accounting fees, and used QuickBooks to "drill down" reports to correct errors, the old program was history. To put things in perspective, QuickBooks is probably now spending more on final tests of its multi-user program than the gross sales of your company. Many programs, including construction programs, are far more powerful than QuickBooks. You can get modifiable source code for complete Access and Fox programs (SBT). This will provide more safety, reliability and far faster and more accurate returns than any custom program. Why risk your business, by effectively going into the programming business, when you know nothing about it? Mike Block, C.P.A. Tax Fighter, QuickBooks Professional Advisor 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33334;  954-566-7540       biz.comp.accounting co-moderator for spam free news!            Demanding voter approval of tax increases!

– Covey Accounting Service, L.L.C. http://user.centralnet.net/dcovey      Accounting and database specialist.

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    I have to agree with Mike on this point:  "You are making a terrible mistake!"  I am not familiar, Peachtree is dominant in my area.  What I have done for a few of my clients is integrate MS-Access or Paradox with Peachtree.  Peachtree and QB or both btrieve databases which means they are OBDC databases.  Which means you can Link data from other OBDC databases to these accounting packages.     To give you an example of what I have done, my client wanted a contract system where they would write the contracts to purchase and sell material.  The quantity would be the same for the sales invoice and the purchase order.  So, in Access, they would enter the contract agreements.  As the shipments took place, the vendor would deliver the material to the customer.  This would be tracked in the system as a broker.  They would enter the data one time in Access.  Access would feed the information in Peachtree to the sales, purchase, and freight based on the terms of the contract.  This allowed Access to perform custom reports, such as position reports (the position of the contracts) and custom invoicing.  It also allowed Peachtree to do what it does well, receive cash, pay bills, financial reporting ,payroll, etc.  By having the two linked, there is no reason to double enter the data. — Covey Accounting Service, L.L.C. http://user.centralnet.net/dcovey      Accounting and database specialist. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are a construction firm looking to get a new accounting system. We would like a Windows 95 based, with Windows NT Server accounting system. We will set up the computers, we just need someone to write the accounting software for us.  Any interested, qualified parties…E-mail us at You may make a TERRIBLE mistake. I have known many good programmers in 35 years of heavy computer and construction experience. For 10 years I helped a programming genius spend thousands of hours on a construction program. He accurately allocated costs to company projects, phases, buildings and units in uniquely fast ways. However, his program never had commercial features and reliability. When the boss saw how much the custom program increased accounting fees, and used QuickBooks to "drill down" reports to correct errors, the old program was history. To put things in perspective, QuickBooks is probably now spending more on final tests of its multi-user program than the gross sales of your company. Many programs, including construction programs, are far more powerful than QuickBooks. You can get modifiable source code for complete Access and Fox programs (SBT). This will provide more safety, reliabilit

     Accounting and database specialist.

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Question:

I would be interested in knowing what experiences people have had using this software.  My initial/recent experience has not been positive and I would like to know if others are having similar problems/frustrations. Thank you.

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I would be interested in knowing what experiences people have had using this software.  My initial/recent experience has not been positive and I would like to know if others are having similar problems/frustrations. Thank you.

  Two questions: 1.  Was the ACCPAC-certified Qualified Installer (QI) you used adequately experienced and knowledgable? 2.  Have you visited http://www.accpaconline.com? Regards, Jon

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I would be interested in knowing what experiences people have had using this software.  My initial/recent experience has not been positive and I would like to know if others are having similar problems/frustrations. Thank you.

was ACCPAC bought by Computer Associates?   http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/issues/1613/pcmg0087.htm

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I am an accounting system consultant specializing in Accpac Plus (DOS product) and Accpac for Windows.  Until version  3.0 of Accpac for Windows came out (late October – early November of last year), there was a number of bugs in the product.  However, virtually all of them got resolved in the latest version.  So, if you still use version 2.0, upgrade to 3.0 as soon as you can.  If you use version 3.0, make sure you install the latest patches to the modules you are using (they are available on the Web). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would be interested in knowing what experiences people have had using this software.  My initial/recent experience has not been positive and I would like to know if others are having similar problems/frustrations. Thank you.

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Question:

Hi, Can someone briefly describe the best way to post foreign currency. If I have US receivables and CAN Recivables, how do I transfer my US rec to the CAN rec? Which accounts should I use? What if I record sales in CAN and invoice those sales in US? Any help would be appreciated. thanks

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writes Hi, Can someone briefly describe the best way to post foreign currency. If I have US receivables and CAN Recivables, how do I transfer my US rec to the CAN rec? Which accounts should I use? What if I record sales in CAN and invoice those sales in US? Any help would be appreciated. thanks

what is your problem here… are you worried about currency hedging or merely how to account for foreign currency? I don’t understand your first question at all, and the answer to your second will vary depending on your answer to mine. If it’s merely an accounting problem then someone else should probably take this up as my expertise is UK GAAP (SSAP 20) and not anything US/Canadian. — andrew There is no solitude greater than a samurai’s Unless perhaps it is that of a tiger in the jungle

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This is a basic accounting problem but yet a lot of people are not sure about the treatment. First of all, I assume that your books are kept in C$ and you don’t have a good software package to keep track of the US$ rec. When making sales, you record the sale in the a/r ledger as C$, using the ex rate on the date of invoice, even though it is invoiced in usd.  So you DR: a/r and CR: sales both in C$.  When you receive the money, whatever differences when translated to C$ will be your "realised exchange gain/loss" so you should create this a/c in your general ledger.  If you are preparing monthly b/s and p/l, the unsettled invoices should be translated to C$ using the month end rate at the end of the month.  Any difference will be posted to "unrealised exchange gain/loss". Hope this will help.  Regard, Jackson Lo, Singapore – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can someone briefly describe the best way to post foreign currency. If I have US receivables and CAN Recivables, how do I transfer my US rec to the CAN rec? Which accounts should I use? What if I record sales in CAN and invoice those sales in US? Any help would be appreciated. thanks

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Question:

Anyone got any ideas on accounting/market related responses to spamming?  I know, pay as you go means they won’t be worth sending…… rather mess up the idea of an open newsgroup though….

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Anyone got any ideas on accounting/market related responses to spamming?  I know, pay as you go means they won’t be worth sending…… rather mess up the idea of an open newsgroup though….

I think you’re seeing some news servers take action directly against spamming.  For instance, the news server I’m posting from runs an automated agent to remove spam from their feed before I read it. As a practical matter, that allows me to pay them for that service.  I expect we may see more "edited" sources of news as a way around spam. Alternatively, we’re also seeing more and more groups turn to moderation as a method to control spamming. — Ed Zollars, CPA                         Phoenix, AZ http://www.getnet.com/~hmtzcpas

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///edited out for brevity// |So there you have it.  Companies that use the Internet are losing |money due to spam.  Companies that do business on the Internet are |losing business due to spam. | |-Dan | |– Excellent post– would you consider buying the bulk emailer and sending this message to all spammers.  I’d contribute my share. —- —-  Firefly  -<— My tables don’t link!

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