Question:

            And its requirement in order to be a Mark Johnson-type Catholic… Paul

Response:

Fr. Muller wrong a book on The Catholic Dogma. It’s online. And in it you can read: The conscience of S. O. represented to him his own explanation of Father Muller’s explanation, which is really bad for many reasons, as a good action, and it represented to him Father Muller’s explanation, which is really good, as something that is really bad, and so, from his erroneous conscience, he declared publicly that Father Muller had misrepresented Catholic Theology, and dishonored the Holy Name of God! Now, such errors of conscience are either culpable or inculpable. They are culpable, if they spring from voluntary ignorance, and they are inculpable, if they spring from involuntary ignorance. Ignorance is voluntary or vincible, when one in doing something has certain doubts about the moral goodness or badness of his action, and about the obligation of examining whether his action is really good or bad, and, nevertheless, does not take the necessary means to find out whether what he is about to do is right or wrong. It is, for instance, a law to profess the true religion in order to be saved. Now, suppose there is a non-Catholic. A sermon on the true religion, which he heard, or a book which he read, or a conversation which he had with a friend on this subject, or the conversion of a wealthy or learned man from Protestantism to the Catholic faith, or any other good reason whatever, makes him doubt about the truth of his religion. Such a one is obliged in conscience to seek for light and instruction, if he can. If he cannot do so immediately, he must firmly purpose to procure information, as soon as he can, from those who can give it in a satisfactory manner, and must be determined to renounce his error, if he finds out that he is living in a false religion. Meanwhile, he must beg of God to enlighten him and enable him to do what seems best to him in the present circumstances. If he, however, neglects to seek instruction when he can and ought to do so; if he continues not to heed his religious scruples about his salvation in Protestantism; if he is even afraid of learning the truth, or, if he knows it, contradicts it against his conscience and obscures it every day by unnatural crimes, — ah! then the signs are not hard to read! Such a Protestant sins against his conscience, against the Holy Ghost. He is a tree, black and dead in the middle of summer. He is fit only for the fire. If he is lost, he is lost through his own fault. Ignorance is involuntary, or invincible, if one, in doing something, has not the least reasonable doubt about the goodness of the action. To illustrate: an heir enters upon an estate which formerly was acquired unjustly by his ancestors; but at the time when he took possession of it, he had not the least doubt about the just and lawful acquisition of the estate. In this he is in error, but the error is involuntary, and, therefore, not culpable. After some years, however, he discovers the flaw in his title, and still continues in the possession of the estate. From that time, his conscience becomes voluntarily and criminally erroneous, contrary to good faith and the dictates of a good conscience. "If your error is voluntary," says St. Thomas Aquinas, and you do not do all you can to find out the truth, you are answerable for your conduct in following a false conscience." Such was the conscience of the persecutors of the Church, of whom Jesus Christ says: "Yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you, will think that he doth a service to God." (John, xvi. 2. ) When, in arguing about something, one of the premises is false, the conclusion must necessarily be false. In like manner, all the acts of a conscience, whose error is voluntary or vincible, are bad and partake in the evil result of voluntary ignorance. If you are willfully ignorant of what you are bound in conscience to know, you are responsible for all your actions. Such is the conscience of many sinners, who wish to be ignorant of their duties in order to live without restraint. "They say to God," says Job, "depart from us, we do not desire the knowledge of thy ways." (Job, xxi. 14.) A conscience continuing thus is to act in a known voluntary error, becomes quite criminal in the sight of God. This is the most lamentable and most unhappy state into which a soul can fall; for this kind of conscience drives the sinner into all kinds of crimes, disorders, and excesses, and becomes to him the source of blindness of the understanding, of hardness of heart, and finally, of eternal reprobation, if he perseveres in this state to the end of his life. Witness the writer of the infidel Press. With him it has become fashionable to get rid of religion and conscience. A man who wishes to gratify his evil desires, without shame, without remorse, says:

Question:

 I looked at Amazon, but apparently they take 99 cents PLUS 15%, whereas Half only takes 15%.  Selling inexpensive books on Amazon seems to be not worth it. I am concerned about selling in eBay stores, because they don’t show up in search results. Do you think the "Average Joe Half.com Buyer" will now shop at Amazon, or will they be loyal eBay-ites and start searching eBay stores? Thanks in advance, and happy holidays! I am in the same boat as you are on this issue.  I plan on moving everything to a eBay Store.  I know BN sells used books as well but I have not looked into how you list there.

You’re both half right, but you’re overlooking some things. For starters, I suspect you’re going to DIE with books in an ebaY store, especially once you start paying fees of $9.95 a month plus a nickel a book.  This brings me to the segue I need, tho. The solution is an Amazon premiere account.  Bear with me, I may have some terminology or figures slightly wrong, you can look them up as easily as I can. You pay a flat $39.95 a month for an Amazon zshop.  This eliminates the 99

Question:

An article in JAMA this week outlines a new study by Dr, David Allison and his colleagues on how obesity affects the lifespan. People with a BMI of over 45 or the severly obese will have significantly shorter lives. Race was a factor in the study. For more details check out "Health matters" link

Question:

ok, not sure this is the same as losing time, because i don’t *feel* like I’ve lost any time, but… Thomas has been out a reasonable amount this last week or two, and i’ve noticed a few occasions of momentary confusion where some mention will be made somewhere in my vicinity about something seasonal in nature, and i’ll mentally say "wait – what month is it again?"  Usually, my mind’s been settling on November, which is actually ok, because the question isn’t really "voiced" in my mind, nor is the answer "voiced", per se…and "November" is sort of equivalent to "fall/just before major holiday season" for me, so the answer isn’t wrong, even though that’s not the name of the month that we’re in now. But what’s strange is that for a brief second there’s confusion, cuz we thought it was spring.  That’s what’s started catching my attention, cuz the "huh? what season is it?" thing is something that happens to everybody, and it’s not a big deal *at all* – at least, I assume so.  ;)  It’s really just a momentary thing, like if u get distracted and kinda shake yer head to clear it sorta thing.  But it’s the fact that everytime we’ve been doing that lately (and we’ve been doing it more often), we thought it was spring. And doing reports at work today, we rather definitively typed "4" as the month number.  There was a momentary sense of unreality to it…kinda like the skreet sound of a needle being dragged over a record…music’s playing normally, then *skreeeeet*, and you’re in a different part of the song. so is that a way of losing time?  Cuz Thomas pretty much went away in the middle of March, and only really started being on first again this past week or two.  If asked, he would quite calmly look u in the eye and say "Today is the 15th of October, 2002", and he would give an accurate thumbnail description of everything important that happened this summer (though I just heard him "listen" inside to summon up the memories of what to say). and I know it doesn’t matter whether that’s a way of losing time or not…but it’s curious to me. But I don’t even think Thomas can give any clues about what happened in April and May.  We can account for maybe an accumulated week or two of those months. gotta go…Thomas is almost ready to invoke Bryan to give an accounting for those months.  we don’t want that to happen. *sigh* how can so much be fixed and so much still be *wrong*??? *frustrated* jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

You know, it’s funny.. we’ve had a similar problem.  Well rather we did for a while but it seems to have worked itself out now.  It started when we went to Colorado.  We were there at the end of May/beginning of June.  But when we got back to work after being gone, we still wanted to write "5" on everything which isn’t all that strange.. EXCEPT it carried on into July and August.  Then in September I wanted to write "6" on everything.  It was so weird.  It was like we were three months behind on life. Course this was during the time that our meds weren’t working right and we were very dissy during that time frame but it was just weird. Rainstar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, not sure this is the same as losing time, because i don’t *feel* like I’ve lost any time, but… Thomas has been out a reasonable amount this last week or two, and i’ve noticed a few occasions of momentary confusion where some mention will be made somewhere in my vicinity about something seasonal in nature, and i’ll mentally say "wait – what month is it again?"  Usually, my mind’s been settling on November, which is actually ok, because the question isn’t really "voiced" in my mind, nor is the answer "voiced", per se…and "November" is sort of equivalent to "fall/just before major holiday season" for me, so the answer isn’t wrong, even though that’s not the name of the month that we’re in now. But what’s strange is that for a brief second there’s confusion, cuz we thought it was spring.  That’s what’s started catching my attention, cuz the "huh? what season is it?" thing is something that happens to everybody, and it’s not a big deal *at all* – at least, I assume so.  ;)  It’s really just a momentary thing, like if u get distracted and kinda shake yer head to clear it sorta thing.  But it’s the fact that everytime we’ve been doing that lately (and we’ve been doing it more often), we thought it was spring. And doing reports at work today, we rather definitively typed "4" as the month number.  There was a momentary sense of unreality to it…kinda like the skreet sound of a needle being dragged over a record…music’s playing normally, then *skreeeeet*, and you’re in a different part of the song. so is that a way of losing time?  Cuz Thomas pretty much went away in the middle of March, and only really started being on first again this past week or two.  If asked, he would quite calmly look u in the eye and say "Today is the 15th of October, 2002", and he would give an accurate thumbnail description of everything important that happened this summer (though I just heard him "listen" inside to summon up the memories of what to say). and I know it doesn’t matter whether that’s a way of losing time or not…but it’s curious to me. But I don’t even think Thomas can give any clues about what happened in April and May.  We can account for maybe an accumulated week or two of those months. gotta go…Thomas is almost ready to invoke Bryan to give an accounting for those months.  we don’t want that to happen. *sigh* how can so much be fixed and so much still be *wrong*??? *frustrated* jt

Response:

heck, ive completely stopped in my tracks before, totally puzzled because all of a sudden i couldnt remember what domino – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, it’s funny.. we’ve had a similar problem.  Well rather we did for a while but it seems to have worked itself out now.  It started when we went to Colorado.  We were there at the end of May/beginning of June.  But when we got back to work after being gone, we still wanted to write "5" on everything which isn’t all that strange.. EXCEPT it carried on into July and August.  Then in September I wanted to write "6" on everything.  It was so weird.  It was like we were three months behind on life. Course this was during the time that our meds weren’t working right and we were very dissy during that time frame but it was just weird. Rainstar ok, not sure this is the same as losing time, because i don’t *feel* like I’ve lost any time, but… Thomas has been out a reasonable amount this last week or two, and i’ve noticed a few occasions of momentary confusion where some mention will be made somewhere in my vicinity about something seasonal in nature, and i’ll mentally say "wait – what month is it again?"  Usually, my mind’s been settling on November, which is actually ok, because the question isn’t really "voiced" in my mind, nor is the answer "voiced", per se…and "November" is sort of equivalent to "fall/just before major holiday season" for me, so the answer isn’t wrong, even though that’s not the name of the month that we’re in now. But what’s strange is that for a brief second there’s confusion, cuz we thought it was spring.  That’s what’s started catching my attention, cuz the "huh? what season is it?" thing is something that happens to everybody, and it’s not a big deal *at all* – at least, I assume so.  ;)  It’s really just a momentary thing, like if u get distracted and kinda shake yer head to clear it sorta thing.  But it’s the fact that everytime we’ve been doing that lately (and we’ve been doing it more often), we thought it was spring. And doing reports at work today, we rather definitively typed "4" as the month number.  There was a momentary sense of unreality to it…kinda like the skreet sound of a needle being dragged over a record…music’s playing normally, then *skreeeeet*, and you’re in a different part of the song. so is that a way of losing time?  Cuz Thomas pretty much went away in the middle of March, and only really started being on first again this past week or two.  If asked, he would quite calmly look u in the eye and say "Today is the 15th of October, 2002", and he would give an accurate thumbnail description of everything important that happened this summer (though I just heard him "listen" inside to summon up the memories of what to say). and I know it doesn’t matter whether that’s a way of losing time or not…but it’s curious to me. But I don’t even think Thomas can give any clues about what happened in April and May.  We can account for maybe an accumulated week or two of those months. gotta go…Thomas is almost ready to invoke Bryan to give an accounting for those months.  we don’t want that to happen. *sigh* how can so much be fixed and so much still be *wrong*??? *frustrated* jt

Response:

I never have a clue what month or day it is.  I often get totaqlly confused about the time of year.  I sometimes get confused about the year.  Yet it is rare taht I actually lose time.  I’ve always thought of it as being, for me, more like some of the other minor perceptual problems I have, liek not beign able to remember right from left, or tell time on a regular clock, getting lost in buildings, stuf liek taht.  Thinking it si the wrong season or just not knowign does get bothersome at times.  But I am so used to it, I ahdn’t even thuoght of it in a long tiem unti I read this thread, even thought it is a constant in my life. -Nancy

Response:

I’ve been having very weird mind things happening lately – I’ve been referring to this obliquely, but haven’t written them all down. I’ll get around to it at some point, maybe. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, not sure this is the same as losing time, because i don’t *feel* like I’ve lost any time, but… Thomas has been out a reasonable amount this last week or two, and i’ve noticed a few occasions of momentary confusion where some mention will be made somewhere in my vicinity about something seasonal in nature, and i’ll mentally say "wait – what month is it again?"  Usually, my mind’s been settling on November, which is actually ok, because the question isn’t really "voiced" in my mind, nor is the answer "voiced", per se…and "November" is sort of equivalent to "fall/just before major holiday season" for me, so the answer isn’t wrong, even though that’s not the name of the month that we’re in now. But what’s strange is that for a brief second there’s confusion, cuz we thought it was spring.  That’s what’s started catching my attention, cuz the "huh? what season is it?" thing is something that happens to everybody, and it’s not a big deal *at all* – at least, I assume so.  ;)  It’s really just a momentary thing, like if u get distracted and kinda shake yer head to clear it sorta thing.  But it’s the fact that everytime we’ve been doing that lately (and we’ve been doing it more often), we thought it was spring. And doing reports at work today, we rather definitively typed "4" as the month number.  There was a momentary sense of unreality to it…kinda like the skreet sound of a needle being dragged over a record…music’s playing normally, then *skreeeeet*, and you’re in a different part of the song. so is that a way of losing time?  Cuz Thomas pretty much went away in the middle of March, and only really started being on first again this past week or two.  If asked, he would quite calmly look u in the eye and say "Today is the 15th of October, 2002", and he would give an accurate thumbnail description of everything important that happened this summer (though I just heard him "listen" inside to summon up the memories of what to say). and I know it doesn’t matter whether that’s a way of losing time or not…but it’s curious to me. But I don’t even think Thomas can give any clues about what happened in April and May.  We can account for maybe an accumulated week or two of those months. gotta go…Thomas is almost ready to invoke Bryan to give an accounting for those months.  we don’t want that to happen. *sigh* how can so much be fixed and so much still be *wrong*??? *frustrated* jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

I have big problems w/what time of day it is – when I wake up. If I’ve been asleep for a nap or for the night or whatever, I often don’t know if it’s day or night or what day it is, or what is supposed to be happening on that day. Sometimes I even wake up thinking I have to do something that I have never in my life been obligated to do or planned to do. Part of the weird mind things that have been happening lately. Thank you for reminding me. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never have a clue what month or day it is.  I often get totaqlly confused about the time of year.  I sometimes get confused about the year.  Yet it is rare taht I actually lose time.  I’ve always thought of it as being, for me, more like some of the other minor perceptual problems I have, liek not beign able to remember right from left, or tell time on a regular clock, getting lost in buildings, stuf liek taht.  Thinking it si the wrong season or just not knowign does get bothersome at times.  But I am so used to it, I ahdn’t even thuoght of it in a long tiem unti I read this thread, even thought it is a constant in my life. -Nancy

Response:

Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering it’s October. *shrug* Rainstar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – heck, ive completely stopped in my tracks before, totally puzzled because all of a sudden i couldnt remember what domino You know, it’s funny.. we’ve had a similar problem.  Well rather we did for a while but it seems to have worked itself out now.  It started when we went to Colorado.  We were there at the end of May/beginning of June.  But when we got back to work after being gone, we still wanted to write "5" on everything which isn’t all that strange.. EXCEPT it carried on into July and August.  Then in September I wanted to write "6" on everything.  It was so weird.  It was like we were three months behind on life. Course this was during the time that our meds weren’t working right and we were very dissy during that time frame but it was just weird. Rainstar ok, not sure this is the same as losing time, because i don’t *feel* like I’ve lost any time, but… Thomas has been out a reasonable amount this last week or two, and i’ve noticed a few occasions of momentary confusion where some mention will be made somewhere in my vicinity about something seasonal in nature, and i’ll mentally say "wait – what month is it again?"  Usually, my mind’s been settling on November, which is actually ok, because the question isn’t really "voiced" in my mind, nor is the answer "voiced", per se…and "November" is sort of equivalent to "fall/just before major holiday season" for me, so the answer isn’t wrong, even though that’s not the name of the month that we’re in now. But what’s strange is that for a brief second there’s confusion, cuz we thought it was spring.  That’s what’s started catching my attention, cuz the "huh? what season is it?" thing is something that happens to everybody, and it’s not a big deal *at all* – at least, I assume so.  ;)  It’s really just a momentary thing, like if u get distracted and kinda shake yer head to clear it sorta thing.  But it’s the fact that everytime we’ve been doing that lately (and we’ve been doing it more often), we thought it was spring. And doing reports at work today, we rather definitively typed "4" as the month number.  There was a momentary sense of unreality to it…kinda like the skreet sound of a needle being dragged over a record…music’s playing normally, then *skreeeeet*, and you’re in a different part of the song. so is that a way of losing time?  Cuz Thomas pretty much went away in the middle of March, and only really started being on first again this past week or two.  If asked, he would quite calmly look u in the eye and say "Today is the 15th of October, 2002", and he would give an accurate thumbnail description of everything important that happened this summer (though I just heard him "listen" inside to summon up the memories of what to say). and I know it doesn’t matter whether that’s a way of losing time or not…but it’s curious to me. But I don’t even think Thomas can give any clues about what happened in April and May.  We can account for maybe an accumulated week or two of those months. gotta go…Thomas is almost ready to invoke Bryan to give an accounting for those months.  we don’t want that to happen. *sigh* how can so much be fixed and so much still be *wrong*??? *frustrated* jt

– To e-mail remove extra from address

Response:

Yeah. Maybe some of us should write to him and ask him to get on our cases. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have big problems w/what time of day it is – when I wake up. If I’ve been asleep for a nap or for the night or whatever, I often don’t know if it’s day or night or what day it is, or what is supposed to be happening on that day. Sometimes I even wake up thinking I have to do something that I have never in my life been obligated to do or planned to do. Part of the weird mind things that have been happening lately. Thank you for reminding me. Beauty. — I go through what you describe here often. That feeling of havng to do something urgent or important or necessary and then realizing that whatever it is is not real, is not an actual obligation in my life and never has been, is an extremely bizarre feeling. I really don’t know where that comes from. I wonder if it is just one of those little mental quirks that people get, like deja vu, or the one that is like the opposite of that, I can never remember the name.  I sometimes think I would have liked being a neurologist. This stuff is very interesting to me.  Maybe Oliver S*cks will write a book about some of these phenomena someday- he’s covered a lot of interesting neurological territory. -Nancy

Response:

I’m in a constant battle with time, dates and places.  I had a go around last week with my t over the long week end…. I didn’t know it was a holiday until I heard it on the news on Sunday….duh… Kept wondering "why" my usual appointment time was changed to Tuesday.  Didn’t bring it up until the following week… slow on the uptake. I have resorted to buying a BIG calendar where I can note appointments, when to pay bills, get flu shots, etc., it helps a lot.  I don’t wear watches because they seem to "break" within weeks and I don’t think they help me anyway, I forget I have it on.  :0)  On the up side, I have a great sense of direction, but knowing the mountains are in the west helps a great deal.  At least I don’t get lost in a paper bag like some people I know.  <BG Nancy, hope things work themselves out soon for you, I honestly dunno how you do it!  You have my admiration… 14

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never have a clue what month or day it is.  I often get totaqlly confused about the time of year.  I sometimes get confused about the year.  Yet it is rare taht I actually lose time.  I’ve always thought of it as being, for me, more like some of the other minor perceptual problems I have, liek not beign able to remember right from left, or tell time on a regular clock, getting lost in buildings, stuf liek taht.  Thinking it si the wrong season or just not knowign does get bothersome at times.  But I am so used to it, I ahdn’t even thuoght of it in a long tiem unti I read this thread, even thought it is a constant in my life. -Nancy

Response:

I have big problems w/what time of day it is – when I wake up. If I’ve been asleep for a nap or for the night or whatever, I often don’t know if it’s day or night or what day it is, or what is supposed to be happening on that day. Sometimes I even wake up thinking I have to do something that I have never in my life been obligated to do or planned to do. Part of the weird mind things that have been happening lately. Thank you for reminding me. Beauty. —

I go through what you describe here often. That feeling of havng to do something urgent or important or necessary and then realizing that whatever it is is not real, is not an actual obligation in my life and never has been, is an extremely bizarre feeling. I really don’t know where that comes from.  I wonder if it is just one of those little mental quirks that people get, like deja vu, or the one that is like the opposite of that, I can never remember the name.  I sometimes think I would have liked being a neurologist. This stuff is very interesting to me.  Maybe Oliver S*cks will write a book about some of these phenomena someday- he’s covered a lot of interesting neurological territory. -Nancy

Response:

i live immediately to the east of Lake Erie (and just south of Lake Ontario).  I orient myself based on the Lake, and I pretty much can’t get lost. again, it’s the tracking stuff I forced my mind to be able to do, cuz it scared me so outrageously that i *couldn’t* track anything. …then there’s the fact that my lack of ability to track stuff got me in trouble when i was a kid.  had pretty good motivation to force my mind into weird configurations to be able to remember things. i used to reality test a *LOT*.  ugh…don’t wanna think about it anymore… jt

I’m in a constant battle with time, dates and places.  I had a go around last week with my t over the long week end…. I didn’t know it was a holiday until I heard it on the news on Sunday….duh… Kept wondering "why" my usual appointment time was changed to Tuesday. Didn’t bring it up until the following week… slow on the uptake. I have

resorted to buying a BIG calendar where I can note appointments, when to pay bills, get flu shots, etc., it helps a lot.  I don’t wear watches because they seem to "break" within weeks and I don’t think they help me

anyway, I forget I have it on.  :0)  On the up side, I have a great sense of

direction, but knowing the mountains are in the west helps a great deal.  At

least I don’t get lost – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in a paper bag like some people I know.  <BG Nancy, hope things work themselves out soon for you, I honestly dunno how you do it!  You have my admiration… 14 I never have a clue what month or day it is.  I often get totaqlly confused about the time of year.  I sometimes get confused about the year.  Yet it is rare taht I actually lose time.  I’ve always thought of it as being, for me, more like some of the other minor perceptual problems I have, liek not beign able to remember right from left, or tell time on a

regular clock, getting lost in buildings, stuf liek taht.  Thinking it si the wrong season or just not knowign does get bothersome at times.  But I am so used to it, I ahdn’t even thuoght of it in a long tiem unti I read this thread,

even thought it is a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – constant in my life. -Nancy

Response:

Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering it’s October. *shrug*

Except that it’s December *ducking and running* *hee hee* Seriously, I gave up worrying about if I know the day/date/time etc many years ago. I _always_ wear my watch that says the time and date and day and I just kind of wing the year as needed Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

Response:

*hee*  ;) actually, the year is a big thing for me.  it’s what i use to get out of particularly bad flshbks these days.  first words out of my mouth will be "two thousand and two.  two thousand and two.  it’s ok.  we’re ok." it *is* 2002, right?? jt

Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering

it’s October. *shrug* Except that it’s December *ducking and running* *hee hee* Seriously, I gave up worrying about if I know the day/date/time etc many years ago. I _always_ wear my watch that says the time and date and day and I just kind of wing the year as needed Rainbow Colors (Jill) —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

Response:

*giggle* *hee*  ;) actually, the year is a big thing for me.  it’s what i use to get out of particularly bad flshbks these days.  first words out of my mouth will be "two thousand and two.  two thousand and two.  it’s ok.  we’re ok." it *is* 2002, right??

Last we looked..  But then again apparently we’re 2 months behind again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jt Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering it’s October. *shrug* Except that it’s December *ducking and running* *hee hee* Seriously, I gave up worrying about if I know the day/date/time etc many years ago. I _always_ wear my watch that says the time and date and day and I just kind of wing the year as needed Rainbow Colors (Jill) —     The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                   we are becoming white light.

– To e-mail remove extra from address

Response:

Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering it’s October. *shrug* Except that it’s December *ducking and running* *hee hee*

Ack!  And I haven’t got my Chr*stm*s shopping nearly done!!! Seriously, I gave up worrying about if I know the day/date/time etc many years ago. I _always_ wear my watch that says the time and date and day and I just kind of wing the year as needed

So I could tell you it’s 2059? Rainbow Colors (Jill)

Rainstar — To e-mail remove extra from address

Response:

"jamais vu" or…as g.carlin puts it, "vuja de".  :) i really *hate* that feeling that i’m missing something, or that I’m supposed to be doing something…  usually I figure out that it originates in whatever dream i’d had as i woke up (yes, i almost always wake up dreaming.)  after I figured that out, I started making more of an effort to remember my dreams so that i’d at least know what was causing those feelings. also, when i was a kid, i often had the problem of not knowing what time it was, what day it was, etc, as beauty described.  i hated that too.  over the years i trained my mind to check different things as i’m waking up, so that i can figure out that stuff. i had to work *really* hard to keep Jen from freaking during the years i had to believe we weren’t multiple.  the feeling Jen would get if she couldn’t make sense of something (and therefore feared she was "cr*zy") was intolerable.  i’ve learned to do a *LOT* to keep from feeling it. it’s worse, just barely, than the feeling Kitty has when she’s truly helpless.  ugh…i’m getting spooked now, thinking about it… jt

I have big problems w/what time of day it is – when I

wake up. If I’ve been asleep for a nap or for the night or whatever, I often don’t know if it’s day or night or what day it is, or what is supposed to be happening on that day. Sometimes I even wake up thinking I have to do

something that I have never in my life been obligated to do or planned to do. Part of the weird mind things that have been happening lately. Thank you for reminding me. Beauty. — I go through what you describe here often. That feeling of havng to do something urgent or important or necessary and then

realizing that whatever it is is not real, is not an actual obligation in my life and never has been, is an extremely bizarre feeling. I really don’t know where that comes from.  I wonder if it is just one of those little mental quirks

that people get, like deja vu, or the one that is like the opposite of that, I

can never remember the name.  I sometimes think I would have liked being a

neurologist. This stuff is – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very interesting to me.  Maybe Oliver S*cks will write a book about some of these phenomena someday- he’s covered a lot of interesting neurological territory. -Nancy

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*grins happily* jt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering

it’s October. *shrug* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Except that it’s December *ducking and running* *hee hee* Ack!  And I haven’t got my Chr*stm*s shopping nearly done!!! Seriously, I gave up worrying about if I know the day/date/time etc many years ago. I _always_ wear my watch that says the time and date and day and I just kind of wing the year as needed So I could tell you it’s 2059? Rainbow Colors (Jill) Rainstar — To e-mail remove extra from address

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering it’s October. *shrug* Except that it’s December *ducking and running* *hee hee* Ack!  And I haven’t got my Chr*stm*s shopping nearly done!!! Seriously, I gave up worrying about if I know the day/date/time etc many years ago. I _always_ wear my watch that says the time and date and day and I just kind of wing the year as needed So I could tell you it’s 2059?

Yep, except that I think I would be like 90ish by then and I’m pretty sure I’m much younger than that right now. I’d be either really confused or convinced you were a tad bit off. That’s what I mean, I just wind it based on what I think it is. 2001 or 2004, what’s the difference? I remember having that problem not too long ago. Someone asked me what the date was and I was pretty sure it was either 2000 or 1999. Turns out it was 2001. *shrug* I was _close_! Especially since being a stay at home mom I’m getting really bad with the year. Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

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Oh, wait – someone mentioned how old they are – and Xmas shopping. Wellll – I always get my Xmas shopping done throughout the year, so that would *never* be an indication for me as to what season it is. (I just got finished, by the way, suggesting to someone that he keep track of what season he feels certain p*r*normal things happening at a certain spot on his property. ‘Nother subject.) *And* – I seem to want to be somewhere between 14 and 19 pretty much all the time. I was wondering just a day or two ago whether I will ever grow up. It must be very, very hard on my husband having a nineteen year old wife (at best). I do think I most often manage to pull myself forward in age/time for motherhood – and, yes, even for wifedom sometimes – just not reliably so. (This makes me sad for my husband in most ways. On the other hand – there are a few rewards which he enjoys.) Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yikes!  Very glad we haven’t had that before.  We found the whole date thing weird because we’ve never had that kind of time problem before.. we’ve never lost time (that we know of anyway ).  So it was really weird for us to be behind three months.. but it seems to have evened itself out as I’m not having any problems remembering it’s October. *shrug* Except that it’s December *ducking and running* *hee hee* Ack!  And I haven’t got my Chr*stm*s shopping nearly done!!! Seriously, I gave up worrying about if I know the day/date/time etc many years ago. I _always_ wear my watch that says the time and date and day and I just kind of wing the year as needed So I could tell you it’s 2059? Yep, except that I think I would be like 90ish by then and I’m pretty sure I’m much younger than that right now. I’d be either really confused or convinced you were a tad bit off. That’s what I mean, I just wind it based on what I think it is. 2001 or 2004, what’s the difference? I remember having that problem not too long ago. Someone asked me what the date was and I was pretty sure it was either 2000 or 1999. Turns out it was 2001. *shrug* I was _close_! Especially since being a stay at home mom I’m getting really bad with the year. Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

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Question:

Hmm.  So if I want to save some fuel, all I have to do is turn into a headwind, which will give me some additional indicated airspeed which I can then convert to additional altitude,

Funny!! The gain or loose in IAS will be temporarily only. A matter of seconds only until the airplane adjust to the new air mass direction confronted. AcroCFI

Response:

Turning ‘tailwind’ while climbing into an area where the winds are faster (the important point which you edited out of my post) would result in the plane travelling slower relative to the airmass.

Correct–Also my apologies–But as Dan also said–that isn’t what ACROFI is talking about. Dave Brownell

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Oh please. It addresses exactly the situation ACROCFI is talking about. He simulates a partial engine failure at 400′ in a strong right crosswind, (apparently) ending up higher as he returns to the airport. His IAS changes depending on which way he turns.

Which is complete baloney, unless one is flying by ground reference, which he has repeatedly denied he is doing. Nowhere does he say anything about suddenly finding himself in different wind conditions. He HAS said he can demonstrate the same thing at 10,000′. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He says:- "We have to remember we are in an airmass moving at maybe at 20 steady knots at 400 feet agl here. That will be about one third of  the small grossed single airplane MLP of say 60 knots. I have demo this many times, turning tailwind without thinking of the tailwind effect, will make you loose IAS, if trying to keep altitude, even if not looking at ground or turning over steep. Turning headwind will make you gain some IAS that I happily demo can be converted for extra altitude and finish the turn on the downwind leg at 450 to 500′ agl." His observation is entirely consistent with the effect of wind shear in a climbing turn. I’d be interested to hear the magnitude of the IAS loss, however.

What wind shear? You just quoted his saying "we are in an airmass moving at maybe at 20 steady knots at 400 feet agl here". — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Turning ‘tailwind’ while climbing into an area where the winds are faster (the important point which you edited out of my post) would result in the plane travelling slower relative to the airmass. Correct. My apologies. But that isn’t what ACROFI is talking about. Oh please. It addresses exactly the situation ACROCFI is talking about. He simulates a partial engine failure at 400′ in a strong right crosswind, (apparently) ending up higher as he returns to the airport. His IAS changes depending on which way he turns.

I don’t think so, Tony. Look again at what you quoted below. ACROCFI is claiming that the IAS increase occurs at upon upwind turn, allowing the climb to stay at MLP. If he had said that he turned and climbed concurrently, with (temporarily) no loss in airspeed, then it would be the wind shear effect you mentioned.  Also note that in his downwind turn example leading to loss of airspeed, he has mentioned nothing of any climb. He says:- "We have to remember we are in an airmass moving at maybe at 20 steady knots at 400 feet agl here. That will be about one third of  the small grossed single airplane MLP of say 60 knots. I have demo this many times, turning tailwind without thinking of the tailwind effect, will make you loose IAS, if trying to keep altitude, even if not

Note, "hold altitude", not "climb". looking at ground or turning over steep. Turning headwind will make you gain some IAS that I happily demo can be converted for extra altitude and finish the

Note, "gain some IAS", then "converted for extra altitude". turn on the downwind leg at 450 to 500′ agl." His observation is entirely consistent with the effect of wind shear in a climbing turn.

Right, except that he claims it occurs before any climb. I’d be interested to hear the magnitude of the IAS loss, however.

Ditto. Let me emphasize (before the next round of rude e-mails & snide comments) Frankly, I could do without all the rudery.

Tony, thicken up the skin a little! This is usenet! There was only one snide comment, and the poster retracted it when he realized he had misinterpreted what you said. ACROCFI – If you try your maneuvers again but strictly maintain 400′ throughout, I think you’ll see it doesn’t matter which way you turn.

All except ACROCFI agree here. — Alex Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Response:

Turning ‘tailwind’ while climbing into an area where the winds are faster (the important point which you edited out of my post) would result in the plane travelling slower relative to the airmass.

Correct. My apologies. But that isn’t what ACROFI is talking about. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Turning ‘tailwind’ while climbing into an area where the winds are faster (the important point which you edited out of my post) would result in the plane travelling slower relative to the airmass. Correct. My apologies. But that isn’t what ACROFI is talking about.

Oh please. It addresses exactly the situation ACROCFI is talking about. He simulates a partial engine failure at 400′ in a strong right crosswind, (apparently) ending up higher as he returns to the airport. His IAS changes depending on which way he turns. He says:- "We have to remember we are in an airmass moving at maybe at 20 steady knots at 400 feet agl here. That will be about one third of  the small grossed single airplane MLP of say 60 knots. I have demo this many times, turning tailwind without thinking of the tailwind effect, will make you loose IAS, if trying to keep altitude, even if not looking at ground or turning over steep. Turning headwind will make you gain some IAS that I happily demo can be converted for extra altitude and finish the turn on the downwind leg at 450 to 500′ agl." His observation is entirely consistent with the effect of wind shear in a climbing turn. I’d be interested to hear the magnitude of the IAS loss, however. Let me emphasize (before the next round of rude e-mails & snide comments) that this post isn’t ‘in support’ of ACROCFI nor is it designed to teach students bad habits. It doesn’t support the ‘downwind turn’ myth either. People seem to have got very heated over this. Frankly, I could do without all the rudery. ACROCFI – If you try your maneuvers again but strictly maintain 400′ throughout, I think you’ll see it doesn’t matter which way you turn.

Response:

Turning ‘tailwind’ while still climbing would lead to the loss of airspeed which he is asserting. The infection is spreading.

Turning ‘tailwind’ while climbing into an area where the winds are faster (the important point which you edited out of my post) would result in the plane travelling slower relative to the airmass. ‘Turning’ really has little to do with it (I’m just using ACROCFI’s terms); its climbing with the wind behind you which demonstrates the effect. Note I said *climbing*. There is nothing controversial about this. It is simply the effect of the windshear one would expect (other things being equal) when close to the ground on a windy day. This may explain why ACROCFI sees the effect he claims he does; it says nothing about the validity of his explanation, as you seem to think.

Response:

Turning ‘tailwind’ while still climbing would lead to the loss of airspeed which he is asserting. The infection is spreading.

No, Dan, I don’t think so. To be fair to Tony, I think he was talking about CHANGE in wind velocity, which is different and more real than the mythical downwind turn in steady state winds. If indeed, the plane is climbing into INCREASING tailwind, there would be some decrease in airspeed, exactly matching what would happen in an upwind turn into DECREASING headwind. However, if comparing climb into increasing tailwind versus climb into increasing headwind, the latter would definitely create higher (temporary) airspeed. Of course, how large this difference is, if even measurable, would depend on how quickly the wind velocity is changing and the mass and velocity (momentum) of the plane. Wind shear is real; differing effects of turns in steady state winds are mythical (or perceptual, e.g. ground reference). — Alex Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

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Let’s not overlook the fact that he (ACROCFI) has also said that this phenomenon happens at 10,000 feet in a 35 knot static air mass. Dave Brownell

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  It’s not only the ground track, brother! You will sink more in a tailwind turn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – even if you are at 10,000 feet up.  I guess you have never done it tailwind by mistake. I did at beginning of teaching it. Had to add power. We did test on The T43, in a grossed up C-152 with Minimum level power (used about 1,700 rpm) we were simulating a cylinder loss and 5 knots only crosswind. at 500′ agl. We did five turnbacks T43 tailwind and headwind turning under the above conditions. As expected we sinked more on the tailwind turn than on the headwind ones, all five times. We were not looking at ground while turning.  We did it tailwind about five times and was dangerous as hell even with a 5 knot tailwind only at 500′ agl. Head wind I could climb about 40 feet in the turn. It is the same effect at high or low altitude.

I’m sorry, I just can’t believe this is for real. This has got to be someone’s idea of a joke. If it isn’t, we’ve got ourselves a new loon that rivals the great T. himself. — Dan N9387D at BFM

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I’m sorry, I just can’t believe this is for real. This has got to be someone’s idea of a joke. If it isn’t, we’ve got ourselves a new loon that rivals the great T. himself. — Dan N9387D at BFM

The downwind turn/stall phenomenon can be readily explained if the earth is assumed to be flat.  But that also makes it much more difficult to explain how GPS works.

Response:

Another related fallacy: Someone once told me that an automobile tire at high speed would "budge" at it’s rear area, because the tire is accelerating from zero speed on the road to double car speed at the top of the tire! A rotating wheel/tire rotates "relative" to it’s center, as this is the inertial frame of reference, not the road. Dave Brownell

Response:

ole Acrocfi whatever saidIt’s not only the ground track, brother! You will sink more in a tailwind turn even if you are at 10,000 feet up. I guess you have never done it tailwind by mistake. I did at beginning of teaching it. Had to add power.

Hmmmm having a thought here—-so when you do this down wind turn–you know what you want to see the airplane do–so you pull a little harder, bank a little more, and ta da–the plane sinks.  You add power to make up for the added drag.  Then you do it into the wind, pull a little less hard, a little less bank, add a little power and it climbs.      If you want to know the truth do it in a sailplane—no engine–let a sailplane pilot do the flying–I doubt you can get near as corrdinated turn as he will.  Only if the turn is corrdinated and of equal bank throughout will you see that this whole thing you are going on about is bunk!      Sure if you yank the plane into a steep turn it will sink if you don’t add power–they all do.  To find the truth you have to stay in the turn for a few full 360s.  Get it stabilized in the 360 turns, then see what it does.      You’ve learned to pilot an airplane–take up soaring and learn to "fly". Become one with the sky—yak yak yak.  The truth is out there—ha ha ha.  mac

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If you want to know the truth do it in a sailplane—no engine–let a sailplane pilot do the flying–I doubt you can get near as corrdinated turn as he will.  Only if the turn is corrdinated and of equal bank throughout will you see that this whole thing you are going on about is bunk!     Sure if you yank the plane into a steep turn it will sink if you don’t add power–they all do.  To find the truth you have to stay in the turn for a few full 360s.  Get it stabilized in the 360 turns, then see what it does.     You’ve learned to pilot an airplane–take up soaring and learn to "fly". Become one with the sky—yak yak yak.  The truth is out there—ha ha ha. mac

I like sailplane pilots,  they are so funny! Too bad I didn’t stay for more than 200 hrs flying hangliders, sailplanes and ultralights. I sort of missed the power of real forward thrust.  I do still fly a friends ultralight, fun, fun!!, but too darn slow. The sinking in the strong wind Minimum Level Power tailwind turn is not because the steep turn, or pulling too much. That will be an additional drop if you do turn steep or pull extra. But even if you turn medium bank and same bank angle headwind and then tailwind you will sink more in the tailwind, keeping the same pitch, bank and no pulls no diference in procedure whatsoever. It surpriced me too when I was taught these details too two years ago and  I was a CFI with over 3,000 hours then.  Got to go flying now. Teaching short field and soft field crosswind landings today. ACROCFI

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I have decided to write an addition to my article that was entitled— "One of aviations biggest conceptual hang-ups; by David Brownell" (Posted earlier on "some" of these topics/posts. The article addition– Another model can bring the point home also, and that is a balloon at 100,000 feet in a 100 MPH wind relative to the ground! (very common) In we were in the gondola of this balloon there would no perceived wind (open candle burning) because the balloon is moving with the air mass over the ground also at 100 MPH.  The balloon is in fact part of the air mass, and is moving in/with it also relative to the ground. If I had a high altitude slow flying powered aircraft, I could circle this balloon continuously at a "set" close distance while maintaining the same steep bank angle and a constant airspeed. Neither the balloon or the aircraft would have any idea that their in an air mass that is moving over the ground at 100 MPH or 1000 MPH.  As a matter of fact, at the equator on a no wind day, you and the air mass above you are moving to the east at 1041.66 MPH, which is the rotational surface speed of planet earth at the equator. Dave Brownell DB Technologies

Response:

ACROCFI, Methinks you are being fooled by one of the optical illusions you have mentioned before. Please seriously  consider the fact that a lot of very smart and very experienced pilots are trying to tell you that you are wrong. If Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein were around, they would tell you the same thing. But somehow I don’t think you’d believe them either. -Trent PP-ASEL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If you want to know the truth do it in a sailplane—no engine–let a sailplane pilot do the flying–I doubt you can get near as corrdinated turn as he will.  Only if the turn is corrdinated and of equal bank throughout will you see that this whole thing you are going on about is bunk!     Sure if you yank the plane into a steep turn it will sink if you don’t add power–they all do.  To find the truth you have to stay in the turn for a few full 360s.  Get it stabilized in the 360 turns, then see what it does.     You’ve learned to pilot an airplane–take up soaring and learn to "fly". Become one with the sky—yak yak yak.  The truth is out there—ha ha ha. mac I like sailplane pilots,  they are so funny! Too bad I didn’t stay for more than 200 hrs flying hangliders, sailplanes and ultralights. I sort of missed the power of real forward thrust.  I do still fly a friends ultralight, fun, fun!!, but too darn slow. The sinking in the strong wind Minimum Level Power tailwind turn is not because the steep turn, or pulling too much. That will be an additional drop if you do turn steep or pull extra. But even if you turn medium bank and same bank angle headwind and then tailwind you will sink more in the tailwind, keeping the same pitch, bank and no pulls no diference in procedure whatsoever. It surpriced me too when I was taught these details too two years ago and  I was a CFI with over 3,000 hours then.  Got to go flying now. Teaching short field and soft field crosswind landings today. ACROCFI

Response:

ACROCFI, Methinks you are being fooled by one of the optical illusions you have mentioned before. Please seriously  consider the fact that a lot of very smart and very experienced pilots are trying to tell you that you are wrong. If Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein were around, they would tell you the same thing. But somehow I don’t think you’d believe them either.

Like they said, The atmosphere an aerodinamics are a different world by itself. Too bad none here have taken a small single and do the maneuvers I’m talking about like the T43 MLP crosswind and report back. I quess that If they do ever try it they will not do it in a situation like I and other pilots I know do and keep some extra airspeed by not using real MLP, or keeping some extra altitude by starting it at 500 agl instead, or doing it with no crosswind at all which defeates the purpose. I suggest The T43 MLP with at least 15 knots crosswind at the surface because that is a no-no bullshit maneuver where there is no IAS to loose, no altititude to loose and no extra power to climb or hold altitude if you do the wrong turn. In the other maneuvers I posted, like the Vfinal Steep Turns Strong Wind, you can trade some of the lAS loss in the tailwind for altitude or put a bit more power to keep it, etc, but on the T43 MLP Strong Crosswind  you don’t want to loose either altitude or speed. We have to remember we are in an airmass moving at maybe at 20 steady knots at 400 feet agl here. That will be about one third of  the small grossed single airplane MLP of say 60 knots. I have demo this many times, turning tailwind without thinking of the tailwind effect, will make you loose IAS, if trying to keep altitude, even if not looking at ground or turning over steep. Turning headwind will make you gain some IAS that I happily demo can be converted for extra altitude and finish the turn on the downwind leg at 450 to 500′ agl. Much safer than ending the tailwind turn at 300′ agl. instead (remember we have a vibrating MLP engine in our hands) now we have to limp to the base leg at 300′ agl at MLP to do another 180 degree turn to final which  will be partly tailwind in most wind cases and we will loose IAS in an MLP turn we know (normal turning drag). Many accidents turning base to final with a failing engine are for engines that partially failed in the initial climb take off phase, but because the crash was on the landing they are classified as landing accidents instead. But the problems and errors started in the initial climb, it was a take off related accident, the most dangerous emergencies of the flight, but emergencies ignored by many.       When the wind is straight down the runway or completely calm turning left or right at MLP, we will loose the same amount of altitude, if done at same pitch and bank both turns. Notice that I don’t put any unrelated examples like the C5a, blimp or tires, etc. I’m saying what is for real, not unrelated or imagine this, or imagine the other thing game. AcroCFI

Response:

Perhaps ACROCFI is not accounting for the effect of wind shear? Since the supposed effect occurs close to the ground & in a strong crosswind, one might expect that wind velocity would be increasing substantially with altitude. Turning ‘tailwind’ while still climbing would lead to the loss of airspeed which he is asserting. Could he be still climbing while slowing to best glide speed after his simulated engine failure? Perhaps some hysterisis in the altimeter? Surely there is some rational explanation for such strongly held views. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ACROCFI, Methinks you are being fooled by one of the optical illusions you have mentioned before. Please seriously  consider the fact that a lot of very smart and very experienced pilots are trying to tell you that you are wrong. If Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein were around, they would tell you the same thing. But somehow I don’t think you’d believe them either. -Trent PP-ASEL

Response:

Turning ‘tailwind’ while still climbing would lead to the loss of airspeed which he is asserting.

The infection is spreading. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

again ACROwhatshisname said It surpriced me too when I was taught these details too two years ago and  I was a CFI with over 3,000 hours then.

I give up ! !  In no way does my 5 or 6 thousand 360 degree steep turns in an engineless aircraft even come close to his 3,000 hours with a 180 degree turn every now and then.      Nor could traveling down 2,000 miles of some of the fastest moving working rivers in the USA by boat (The Muddy Mo. and Mississippi) begin to show the difference to where one places his point of reference.  Funny thing, max hull speed stays the same to matter weather your turning up river or down river. hmmmmmm   No better not to even think about that–he’s making me brain hurt.      For real I’m starting to think he is a troll—or a teen that has found an aviation book of some kind.  But it’s been a hoot anyway.   Mac (who climbs by gliding downwards—with turns) ah ha  that’s it ! ! !  a thermal rotates as it climbs—therefore I must be turnning into a head wind all the time and that is how I climb  ! ! !  oops some times I turn the other direction–so much for that idea.

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Hmm.  So if I want to save some fuel, all I have to do is turn into a headwind, which will give me some additional indicated airspeed which I can then convert to additional altitude, What a concept.   How could I have not thought of this myself?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ACROCFI, Methinks you are being fooled by one of the optical illusions you have mentioned before. Please seriously  consider the fact that a lot of very smart and very experienced pilots are trying to tell you that you are wrong. If Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein were around, they would tell you the same thing. But somehow I don’t think you’d believe them either. Like they said, The atmosphere an aerodinamics are a different world by itself. Too bad none here have taken a small single and do the maneuvers I’m talking about like the T43 MLP crosswind and report back. I quess that If they do ever try it they will not do it in a situation like I and other pilots I know do and keep some extra airspeed by not using real MLP, or keeping some extra altitude by starting it at 500 agl instead, or doing it with no crosswind at all which defeates the purpose. I suggest The T43 MLP with at least 15 knots crosswind at the surface because that is a no-no bullshit maneuver where there is no IAS to loose, no altititude to loose and no extra power to climb or hold altitude if you do the wrong turn. In the other maneuvers I posted, like the Vfinal Steep Turns Strong Wind, you can trade some of the lAS loss in the tailwind for altitude or put a bit more power to keep it, etc, but on the T43 MLP Strong Crosswind  you don’t want to loose either altitude or speed. We have to remember we are in an airmass moving at maybe at 20 steady knots at 400 feet agl here. That will be about one third of  the small grossed single airplane MLP of say 60 knots. I have demo this many times, turning tailwind without thinking of the tailwind effect, will make you loose IAS, if trying to keep altitude, even if not looking at ground or turning over steep. Turning headwind will make you gain some IAS that I happily demo can be converted for extra altitude and finish the turn on the downwind leg at 450 to 500′ agl. Much safer than ending the tailwind turn at 300′ agl. instead (remember we have a vibrating MLP engine in our hands) now we have to limp to the base leg at 300′ agl at MLP to do another 180 degree turn to final which  will be partly tailwind in most wind cases and we will loose IAS in an MLP turn we know (normal turning drag). Many accidents turning base to final with a failing engine are for engines that partially failed in the initial climb take off phase, but because the crash was on the landing they are classified as landing accidents instead. But the problems and errors started in the initial climb, it was a take off related accident, the most dangerous emergencies of the flight, but emergencies ignored by many.       When the wind is straight down the runway or completely calm turning left or right at MLP, we will loose the same amount of altitude, if done at same pitch and bank both turns. Notice that I don’t put any unrelated examples like the C5a, blimp or tires, etc. I’m saying what is for real, not unrelated or imagine this, or imagine the other thing game. AcroCFI

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Lost connection so I have to continue here. The T43 maneuver was called the T34 by the CFI that created it for his ELM video in 1995. I prefer to call it the T43. it is too easy to confuse with T34 airplane. So far I havent seen this maneuver published anywhere else. You are taking off with a strong right crosswind at full or almost full gross in a single, suddenly at 400′ agl the rpm drops about 500′ rpm to the minimum level altitude sustaining power (MLP). The nose start dropping by itself a bit, the speed start decreasing and settles to around Vfinal(it will if you don’t pull too much). Now you have only about 1,900 rpm and can’t barely sustain altitude.You are at the Minimum Level Power(MLP)  The crosswind is strong, but you think you can still turn the airplane around the airport. There are no obstructions at that altitude on the downwind leg either way left or right. If you are the kind that believes that a tailwind turn at Vfinal from 400 feet with an airplane that don’t have the extra power available in case you need it you are for a big surprice. By experience I know that if you don’t stall in that Vfinal turn even turning shallow, you will sink in it to about 300′ agl. Happened to me on one occasion the winds pick up and I forgot to remind the student to turn headwind instead. Had to add power with the stall warning on and felt the buffet too at 300′ agl. I also learned the Question Mark from 300 feet on 3 cylinders The Q33. A lot of fun. Of course I turnback headwind in it or I would be in the NTSB files long time ago. I expect the ones that call tailwind turn a fallacy to go and try these maneuvers turning tailwind in each on under the same conditions before posting.  But I know, I know they will post without doing them tailwind. Talking is cheap!  

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Two texts/articles—– A reprint from the AOPA flight training magazine of August 2001 http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=4113 "Since you’ve asked" The Great Downwind Turn Debate Dear Rod, Would you do me a great favor and clear up the age-old debate about downwind turns? My opinion is that once the aircraft is airborne and moving in a steady-state air mass, provided the turn is balanced, the indicated airspeed and hence the margin above stall will not change. Granted, the aircraft will follow a different path over the ground, but when considered separately from the earth, the aircraft is still flying in a circle. In my opinion, the problem with pilots making downwind turns lies with their perception of speed in relation to the ground. The pilot might think he or she is going faster and try to compensate by reducing power and/ or increasing the angle of attack. This could cause a stall or spin. I say that once the aircraft has left the ground, it doesn’t care about the ground at all, and the plane can’t tell its speed in relation to the ground. I would be most grateful if you could clear this up for me. Thanks very much for your help. Travis (For those of you who are not already familiar with the downwind turn argument, it goes like this: In a steady-state wind, turning downwind [away from a headwind] can result in a loss of airspeed, possibly leading to a stall if the airplane’s speed is low enough. Proponents of this argument suggest that the stronger the wind, the greater the loss of airspeed.) Greetings Travis, You’re right on all counts. Excluding any effects of wind shear while climbing, descending, or turning, pilots who stall while turning downwind usually do so because of the perceptual problems you mentioned. Unfortunately, the downwind turn argument is like a vampire: It just won’t die. Without going into the rather complex aerodynamics, I believe there is a simple way to put a stake through the heart of this argument once and for all.  It involves only one question:  If the downwind turn effect is indeed real, then why is it that no major airline simulator – not a single one to my knowledge – is programmed to represent this phenomenon? After all, if this was a genuine threat to safety and lives were supposedly at risk because of the dangers of turning downwind, then sophisticated simulators would certainly be programmed to represent this hazard. They aren’t. Despite the fact that airliners turn downwind all the time, even in the jet stream, they don’t fall out of the sky.  If they did, an airline company would surely capitalize on the issue by adopting a name such as Bob’s Discount No-Downwind-Turn Airline. The fact is that the downwind turn phenomenon occurs primarily for the reason you stated – reaction to perceived speed in relation to the ground.  The downwind turn phenomenon does not exist in real life.  It only exists in the heads of those who insist that the laws of physics don’t apply to airplanes in flight. Please e-mail your flight training questions to "Since You Asked" at publication will be answered. Rod Machado One of aviations biggest conceptual hang-ups; by David Brownell Ever since aviation began the subject of wind relative to the ground has been a major conceptual hang-up for many people.  Many early aviators (and still some today) believed that if you were to make a turn from up-wind flight to down-wind flight you stood a big chance of stalling as compared to a turn from down-wind flight to up-wind flight.  The perception here is that when you turned down-wind from up-wind flight the aircraft would lose airspeed because the wind would now be moving around to your tail, resulting in a loss of airspeed. Other thoughts were that the aircraft had to "catch up" with the wind in a turn downwind. Another argument said that the ground speed was the factor, in so much as the aircraft has to increase ground speed considerably when turning downwind to avoid air speed loss.  The perception here is that the aircraft should need more engine horsepower when turning down-wind to maintain airspeed as compared to turning up-wind. The science community and many people have known for a long time that all of the above is a total fallacy. I believe they call it relativity! (frame of reference) (Newtonian physics) I have run into some of these people in my aviation life, and have put forth the following model to them. In the greater majority of cases, it has got their neurons into a state of frenzy. The model is a C5A Galaxy aircraft (bigger than a 747) flying at 500 MPH over the ground with a radio controlled model airplane being flown around inside this aircraft. The reaction I get sometimes is; so what.  My answer to that is; Is not the air mass inside the C5A moving across the ground at 500 MPH the same as a wind moving across the ground at that same speed?  At this point I usually get a calming of their demeanor followed buy the comment; maybe I should give that some thought! Yes indeed, the atmosphere has been known by us engineering/physics guys, and many others for a very long time, to be a world TOTALLY onto itself. David B. Brownell C-180 Jump pilot–2700 loads–1400 hrs TT–Skydiver with 1200 Jumps DB Technologies (Pres/CEO) Mesa, AZ  USA

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ACROCFI saidI also learned the Question Mark from 300 feet on 3 cylinders The Q33. A lot of fun. Of course I turnback headwind in it or I would be in the NTSB files long time ago. I expect the ones that call tailwind turn a fallacy to go and try these maneuvers turning tailwind in each on under the same conditions before posting. But I know, I know they will post without doing them tailwind. Talking is cheap!  

Hey   try that as you like to call it Question Mark turn from 200 feet with rpm "zero"  Prop rpm "zero" in fact with no engine at all.  Ok, I’ve tried it as it’s standard training for sailplane pilots.  Yeah the aircraft drops in the turn—your gliding!  The reason it’s done into the wind is to reduce the ground track needed to get back to the runway and for no other reason.  After hours and hours of doing 360s, one after another, climbing in thermals I for one KNOW there is no such thing as a downwind turn being any different from an upwind turn.  Now where there is air going up there is also air going down.  If you fly from the "up" air into the "down" air you get a sinking feeling much like a stall. (We are flying a 40 degree bank here at three or four kts. above stall speed)  Yet it is not in fact a stall, and if one holds the bank angle the sailplane will soon fly back into the rising air.  I doubt there would even be soaring if we were going to stall on half of every turn.  Go get some time in a sailplane where you don’t have an engine to make your missunderstanding more complex than it needs to be. mac—Private Pilot — Glider, ASEL, Tail Wheel, high performance/complex and Tow pilot.

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Hey   try that as you like to call it Question Mark turn from 200 feet with rpm "zero"  Prop rpm "zero" in fact with no engine at all.  Ok, I’ve tried it as it’s standard training for sailplane pilots.  Yeah the aircraft drops in the turn—your gliding!  The reason it’s done into the wind is to reduce the ground track needed to get back to the runway and for no other

It’s not only the ground track, brother! You will sink more in a tailwind turn even if you are at 10,000 feet up.  I guess you have never done it tailwind by mistake. I did at beginning of teaching it. Had to add power. We did test on The T43, in a grossed up C-152 with Minimum level power (used about 1,700 rpm) we were simulating a cylinder loss and 5 knots only crosswind. at 500′ agl. We did five turnbacks T43 tailwind and headwind turning under the above conditions. As expected we sinked more on the tailwind turn than on the headwind ones, all five times. We were not looking at ground while turning.  We did it tailwind about five times and was dangerous as hell even with a 5 knot tailwind only at 500′ agl. Head wind I could climb about 40 feet in the turn. It is the same effect at high or low altitude. Of course without power I can do Q500  from 500′ agl on Cessnas, if I have a crosswind (headwind) to turn to. In low wingers 600′ minimum, they sink faster almost all of them, at full gross as said. But I was told the Diamond D-20 can do Q500 no power, like Cessnas. That is called the Q600 no power, for other small low wingers.  AcroCFI

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Question:

Thank you, Mr. T. A better explanation of our position I have not seen. Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Facts

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Thank you, Mr. T. A better explanation of our position I have not seen. Joe

THANK YOU JOE The Facts

http://members.aol.com/TKONKLE/comedy.html

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The Facts S.A.G./A.F.T.R.A. wants actors to receive "Pay-Per-Play" for broadcast network and cable network commercial usage. Pay-Per-Play means an advertiser pays an actor each time a commercial airs. Pay-Per-Play is the only system that fairly compensates actors in accordance to their actual exposure. When an advertiser chooses to use a commercial many times, the actor in the commercial becomes over-exposed, her image indelibly linked with the product being sold. Given the actor’s strong association with the product, other advertisers refuse to cast her. The greater the over-exposure, the longer the unemployment. Pay-Per-Play means advertisers only pay for actual usage of a commercial. Flat fees force smaller advertisers to pay a premium when a commercial only airs a few times. $4,200 for "one day’s work" is a lie. Under the advertisers’ last offer, an actor is only guaranteed $500, the amount paid to perform in a commercial. If the commercial does not play or is "held"-a common occurrence-the actor receives no additional money in the first cycle. The actor is also contractually barred from appearing in any other commercial selling a competing product. If the commercial does play on broadcast network television, the $500 already paid to the actor is applied to the $2,575 flat fee. This means the actor really only receives a $2,075 payment for unlimited use. If the commercial plays on a cable network, the maximum the actor can earn is $1,627. If commercial airs on a limited number of major cable networks, the actor would receive far less. The only people earning a guaranteed $4,202 a day are the attorneys negotiating on behalf of advertisers. Based upon data just released by McCann-Erickson Worldwide, Actor payments now make up less than 1 % of the total cost to produce and air commercials. Currently actors earn a maximum of $11 a day for unlimited use of a commercial on cable television. Advertisers claim the S.A.G./A.F.T.R.A. cable proposal amounts to a 350% increase. Even if the advertisers’ unproven allegation were true, an actor would earn $38.50 a day for unlimited cable usage of a commercial– Less than the minimum wage. Advertisers say they are offering a 60% increase in cable residual rates. Their latest offer is only an 11% increase. $29 million dollars of the "60% cable increase" comes from a $29 million decrease in broadcast network payments. S.A.G./A.F.T.R.A. wants Internet usage included in the commercial contract. Advertisers say they don’t have the authority to include Internet usage in the commercial contract even though they’ve already spent millions buying and creating Internet-only advertising agencies. Advertisers refuse to provide accurate monitoring records of commercial usage. They demand we trust them. A S.A.G. monitoring study of 38 commercials uncovered over $110,000 in unpaid wages. The study reveals actors can’t afford to trust advertisers. Advertisers say the pay-per-play system is flawed because networks are capturing only 50% of all television viewers as compared to 90% in 1970. They fail to mention that the number of total television viewers has grown by 66% in the last thirty years Network is just as valuable today as it ever was. And, since cable now delivers nearly the same share as the big six networks, it deserves the same payment system. Despite the notion that actors earn millions – 80% of S.A.G. members earn less than $5000 a year. Advertising revenues are up dramatically. According to Advertising Age, total gross income for the top 500 U.S. based ad agencies increased by over 22% in 1999. Additionally, an accounting by the Cabletelevision Advertising Bureau revealed a 33% gain in cable ad billings to over $10,000,000,000 ($10 billion.)

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Question:

I read this the second time  using my best Peter sellers  accent  as in I am all right Jack . Well said brother deeda – But Dont peek through the curtains when I am noshing or I may not let you have a bite of my whole meal roll smoked salmon  with capers and dill garnish with a fine wine . Or the ability to get away early before the ankle biters  and fat bush pigs waddle past  smelly peasants that they are. Or the Conversations one can enjoy that does not include football and holiday snaps or some cloth eared git donging me on the bonce with its 20kg hand luggage . And the excruciating torment of having an orange juice and some toast  then a shower before wandering off to do the days tasks  and giving the shoes that final buff  with the nifty polisher near the door ( when it works) . yep economy  bloody great  Brudder  deeda . Any way I am paying for it  not the tax payer nor the boss  but ultimately the client  who often springs for a y or w class and I spring for the diff into J class. Any way back in 81 I paid a life membership  to flightdeck  - I plan to live to a hundred  I worked for their money  I pay the taxes and air fare I enjoy it. You can join up on line  brudda . But very tongue in cheek as there is a lot in what you say . You can spot the flim flams a mile off they are the noisy ones talking to them selves on the yuppie phones. Have a good one Phil

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All airlines suffer from the syndrome of Station (Mis)management when things go wrong.Most airlines HATE having to put a pax into a hotel at the co.expense,hence they delay and delay to try to get them away.I may be an old socialist on this one but the airlines who have gone down the road of Lounges and extras for Business and First Class passengers are where it all starts.When an airline treats ECY passengers as cattle and the BC and FC passengers like Lords then it is time for me to choose another carrier. The expense that airlines run up catering to the "elite",with Flight Deck Clubs,Gold Wing Lounges,etc, leather lounges,buffets,cocktail bars,valet parking,computer terminals, private check in,etc,etc,etc, at airports and in aircraft themselves,all lead up to the inevitable cost cutting in areas where it really matters.In actual fact, the ECY Pax and Taxpayer subsidises the snouts into the troughs.The majority of BC and FC passengers do not pay the fares and membership fees out of their own pocket,often Government,company or Tax Deductable expenses are where the $$ come from. It is about time an Investigative Journalist turned up the heat on these travel perks and exposed the Crap and Elitism that Airlines participate in.I just love it when the Cabin Staff close the curtains when the meals come out into BC when I am back in ECY! Roll on One Class Virgin and Impulse. Take a peek thru the curtains next time to see what I mean.

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All airlines suffer from the syndrome of Station (Mis)management when things go wrong.Most airlines HATE having to put a pax into a hotel at the co.expense,hence they delay and delay to try to get them away.I may be an old socialist on this one but the airlines who have gone down the road of Lounges and extras for Business and First Class passengers are where it all starts.When an airline treats ECY passengers as cattle and the BC and FC passengers like Lords then it is time for me to choose another carrier. The expense that airlines run up catering to the "elite",with Flight Deck Clubs,Gold Wing Lounges,etc, leather lounges,buffets,cocktail bars,valet parking,computer terminals, private check in,etc,etc,etc, at airports and in aircraft themselves,all lead up to the inevitable cost cutting in areas where it really matters.In actual fact, the ECY Pax and Taxpayer subsidises the snouts into the troughs.The majority of BC and FC passengers do not pay the fares and membership fees out of their own pocket,often Government,company or Tax Deductable expenses are where the $$ come from. It is about time an Investigative Journalist turned up the heat on these travel perks and exposed the Crap and Elitism that Airlines participate in.I just love it when the Cabin Staff close the curtains when the meals come out into BC when I am back in ECY! Roll on One Class Virgin and Impulse. Take a peek thru the curtains next time to see what I mean.

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"P C" < wrote Well Ted how would you call it ? Go and observe  em some days . And have a think about HO actions of late.Hells bells surely your not taking the postion in this debate that they are doing a damn fine job ???? No.  I was just expressing surprise that you were being critical of part of the Qantas operation

Cant understand why you would be surprised  I have been down this track many times before . Heck I have even agreed with Jacko on some things  -now theres a bloke who does not have a White Roo on his Jarmies. And to remove any doubt – A lot of dead wood and protected species still reside in bull dust castle QF HO. Mainly in Advertising, finance and marketing  public relations is a night mare. Human resources at last appears to have had a clean out  of various cliques that existed. Qantas culture and  pride -moral what ever label you put on it over last 4 years  - if it was a horse you would shoot it. Happy to debate that ANY day with QF Execs providing they pay the fee and or commit to effective change management. The clique of tame  consultants they employ who know the best principals make Sir Humphrey look like a light weight. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

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Pink.one.net????? Are you trying to tell us something here, Phil?? Or have you just stumbled into this one unwittingly?? <ROFL With the most recent pr exercise  said to involve QF by the press..

<snip NOW what the heck is going on IN QF  bunker . Tech ,Engineering etc are all fine  but elsewhere  various eyes are either  unable ,unwilling or plain incompetent to address these areas that  are starting some time ago to denude the public face of QF at the sharp end  on the ground.

Having a bit of the old each-way, mate? <GRIN

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"P C" < wrote in Pink.one.net????? Are you trying to tell us something here, Phil?? Or have you just stumbled into this one unwittingly?? <ROFL

Have a look where the internets little treaure under its various names posts from . Not a stumble as such more like a blasted gallows With the most recent pr exercise  said to involve QF by the press.. <snip NOW what the heck is going on IN QF  bunker . Tech ,Engineering etc are all fine  but elsewhere  various eyes are either  unable ,unwilling or plain incompetent to address these areas that  are starting some time ago to denude the public face of QF at the sharp end  on the ground. Having a bit of the old each-way, mate? <GRIN

Well Ted how would you call it ? Go and observe  em some days . And  have a think about HO actions of late.Hells bells surely your not taking the postion in this debate that they are doing a damn fine job ???? I stand by  THE call I made above perhaps strike out unable  make that just plain cloth eared.

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Well Ted how would you call it ? Go and observe  em some days . And  have a think about HO actions of late.Hells bells surely your not taking the postion in this debate that they are doing a damn fine job ????

No.  I was just expressing surprise that you were being critical of part of the Qantas operation.

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With the most recent pr exercise  said to involve QF by the press.. It appears that listening to media reports and from other  (reliable) sources  that the main issues not only in Hong Kong station others is with the ground staff. 1 When the wheels come off ( unfortunate choice of words for Rome )  or things get too far out of the norm. The ground staff  and handling agents   can not communicate and co-ordinate to customer satisfaction. Customer satisfaction is the aspect that in the latest the  press homed in on. 2 Reasons are in some stations when the flight leaves  and if its the last flight a lot head off  as split shifts are now the norm in the industry. 3 It appears that no recent training or  even discussion on how to co-ordinate with hotels ground transport etc has been developed as a dedicated action plan  by not only QF but many others.. The Decisions and expertise  rests with the station managers or operations staff. 4 Considering that a few Qantas ports in oz  have expanded staff levels to fill the gap left by BA and a few casuals  have been recruited  a O&M team may care to look at this situation. 5 Another aspect that causes distress  is when QF are the ground agents for other carriers  and every thing from a new chum telling a Senior Captain to go see his own airline about missing transport for the tech & cabin crew after stooging around for over an hour  when They!  (Qantas)  are the ground agents  was  funny to observe  as it was like fawlty towers meets KUNG -FU . What is happening in the trenches  is this – Station managers memo  State   -state memos HO  Ho writes back quoting staff establishment levels . Station Manger says  No that’s  under way this is the other matter we spoke about  x times and  it was being addressed .  A flurry of memos  ensue    and a new coffee pot  arrives for the station manager . HIGH Farce indeed, NOW what the heck is going on IN QF  bunker . Tech ,Engineering etc are all fine  but elsewhere  various eyes are either  unable ,unwilling or plain incompetent to address these areas that  are starting some time ago to denude the public face of QF at the sharp end  on the ground. QF are Ripe for a whole strategic review by INDEPENDENT  aware consultants who wont be bashed about the head by the accounting mafia . Perhaps the NEW Skirt  in Bullshit castle may get the ball rolling . That said  Qantas in my experience is still very good to deal with as long as not too many curve balls get tossed at the troops  too rapidly. Certainly better than most other carriers in the ports I visit and in my experience the majority of individuals  really do give an honest days work for the pay. But seem (to my eyes) let down progressively by the feedback mechanisms of HO. Poor Old ansett is even worse, of late as they have no jam left to spread any more. Those left are so busy looking after the job or  just hanging on till the next redundancy announcement. If these new chums get the customer service and delivery mechanisms  up to speed earlier they may win a few over regardless of cost and benefit. The Olympics are nearly upon us and how we as a country are perceived  to a great extent will be up to these poor buggers  grinding away each day . Hope it improves as already cracks are there . Just My few cents worth.

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Question:

Made me smile. For some more fun then try an on line quiz about accounting terms.  This can be found at http://www.greenex.co.uk/grxacc.html?ng — Rob A. <remove the governments share to contact me

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For a humorous look at teaching your self accountancy, please go to: http://www.aarchive.co.uk and click on the link for Accountancy Training. — Phil Lilley THE AARCHIVE GROUP Please take ‘nospam.’ out of the e-mail address.

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For a humorous look at teaching your self accountancy, please go to: http://www.aarchive.co.uk and click on the link for Accountancy Training. — Phil Lilley THE AARCHIVE GROUP Please take ‘nospam.’ out of the e-mail address.

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Question:

Bullshit. This unit was turned on in November of 1997. Is it still working? Andy Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. In medicine and mechanics.

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hmmm, isn’t 232 milliseconds still less than a second?                               WhiteWolf – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – these excerpts from a pointcast report; ben Forget about Y2K.  This is serious. Microsoft now acknowledges the existence of a bug in tens of millions of copies of Windows 95 and Windows 98 that will cause your computer to "stop responding (hang)" — you know, what you call crash — after exactly 49 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 47.296 seconds of continuous operation. Why 49.7 days? Because computers aren’t counting the days. They’re counting the milliseconds. One counter begins when Windows starts up; when it gets to 232 milliseconds — which happens to be 49.7 days — well, that’s the biggest number this counter can handle. And instead of gracefully rolling over and starting again at zero, it manages to bring the entire operating system to a halt

–          Great Links, useful Y2K Info                     and            Survival Food Supplies            <http://www.p5.com/y2k            Live – Survive Y2K Chat                      at     <http://members.xoom.com/SurviveY2K/             open to all – 24/7

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these excerpts from a pointcast report; ben Forget about Y2K.  This is serious. Microsoft now acknowledges the existence of a bug in tens of millions of copies of Windows 95 and Windows 98 that will cause your computer to "stop responding (hang)" — you know, what you call crash — after exactly 49 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 47.296 seconds of continuous operation. Why 49.7 days? Because computers aren’t counting the days. They’re counting the milliseconds. One counter begins when Windows starts up; when it gets to 232 milliseconds — which happens to be 49.7 days — well, that’s the biggest number this counter can handle. And instead of gracefully rolling over and starting again at zero, it manages to bring the entire operating system to a halt

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sorts the following: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -these excerpts from a pointcast report; ben Forget about Y2K. This is serious. Microsoft now acknowledges the existence of a bug in tens of millions of copies of Windows 95 and Windows 98 that will cause your computer to "stop responding (hang)" — you know, what you call crash — after exactly 49 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 47.296 seconds of continuous operation. Why 49.7 days? Because computers aren’t counting the days. They’re counting the milliseconds. One counter begins when Windows starts up; when it gets to 232 milliseconds — which happens to be 49.7 days — well, that’s the biggest number this counter can handle. And instead of gracefully rolling over and starting again at zero, it manages to bring the entire operating system to a halt

49.7 days would be 4,294,080,000 msec. . . chrisL _______ ____ _

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hmmm, isn’t 232 milliseconds still less than a second?                              WhiteWolf

1== Yep, one second = 1000 milliseconds, so 232 milliseconds = 0.232 seconds, or about a fifth of a second. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – these excerpts from a pointcast report; ben Forget about Y2K.  This is serious. Microsoft now acknowledges the existence of a bug in tens of millions of copies of Windows 95 and Windows 98 that will cause your computer to "stop responding (hang)" — you know, what you call crash — after exactly 49 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes and 47.296 seconds of continuous operation. Why 49.7 days? Because computers aren’t counting the days. They’re counting the milliseconds. One counter begins when Windows starts up; when it gets to 232 milliseconds — which happens to be 49.7 days — well, that’s the biggest number this counter can handle. And instead of gracefully rolling over and starting again at zero, it manages to bring the entire operating system to a halt

2== Not trying to pick on you, Ben.   Many people quote figures from others in good faith without checking accuracy.    However, if you accept such a figure without checking it, you can bet that someone in the group will be familiar with the system you are quoting and will correct you on it, just to keep others from being misled. 3== So, if you quote others without checking their statements, you might be the one who gets the blame for the inaccuracy, and your credibility might be questioned. 4== How much you might worry about this is another question, of course. 5 == Twenty years ago, if posting on a group such as this, if i wanted to state that the melting point of the metal lead was 327.4 degrees Centigrade, I might have given one or more "references" to establish this "scientific fact" so everyone could "check" it. 6== Many  years ago I still believed that the average person was "logical" or "scientific" and if I presented "facts" and "references" those would be enough to convince him or her. 7== However, after switching my major to "psychology" soon realized that the "average person" wasn’t even remotely "logical" and would almost always "believe" what they "wanted to believe" despite whatever facts were offered. 8== Since then, have tried to present facts on a "take it or leave it" basis.    If  I state that the melting point of lead metal is 327.4 C. then the reader can almost always assume that this is the melting point by any standard reference.   [ If I quote it that exactly, I have checked a standard reference....] 9== However, suppose the reader disagrees?   Fine.  He can challenge me on the figure if he likes, and we can debate it.   …Then we can quote "references" if he wishes.   10== Personally, though, I really don’t care if he agrees with me or not.  His problem, not mine.  If I say that the world is round and he thinks that it is flat, let him think it.   11== Only mention this point here in case some wonder why I don’t comment on certain issues. ~ larryn  

Response:

Sorry, Pointcast is full of sh*t, not you.  (Questions do abound as to why you didn’t catch such a glaring mistake, but I will keep those to myself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – personally, i didn’t ’say’ anything. simply cut and paste the article. why they claim 49.7 days is —-i don’t know—-. will try to find the article, in it’s entirity, and repost. ben If MS acknowledges that 232 milliseconds equals 49.7 days, I’d say they need to contract out their accounting work.  Ben, do you still want to claim MS says 232 thousandths of a second equals 49.7 days?  Maybe you are married and it just seems that long. if you have a system, running windows 95, that has never crashed you’d better patent it. the biggest joke in the industry is trying to make it one day without a crash-lockup in win-95. BTW ms acknowledges the problem and has the fix. ben Bullshit. This unit was turned on in November of 1997. Is it still working? Andy Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. In medicine and mechanics. — "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." —George Washington "In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place." -Mohandas Gandhi "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be even a worse fate. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." — Winston Churchill on the eve of Britain’s entry into World War II

– "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." —George Washington "In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place." -Mohandas Gandhi "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be even a worse fate. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." — Winston Churchill on the eve of Britain’s entry into World War II

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personally, i didn’t ’say’ anything. simply cut and paste the article. why they claim 49.7 days is —-i don’t know—-. will try to find the article, in it’s entirity, and repost. ben – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If MS acknowledges that 232 milliseconds equals 49.7 days, I’d say they need to contract out their accounting work.  Ben, do you still want to claim MS says 232 thousandths of a second equals 49.7 days?  Maybe you are married and it just seems that long. if you have a system, running windows 95, that has never crashed you’d better patent it. the biggest joke in the industry is trying to make it one day without a crash-lockup in win-95. BTW ms acknowledges the problem and has the fix. ben Bullshit. This unit was turned on in November of 1997. Is it still working? Andy Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. In medicine and mechanics. — "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." —George Washington "In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place." -Mohandas Gandhi "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be even a worse fate. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." — Winston Churchill on the eve of Britain’s entry into World War II

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If MS acknowledges that 232 milliseconds equals 49.7 days, I’d say they need to contract out their accounting work.  Ben, do you still want to claim MS says 232 thousandths of a second equals 49.7 days?  Maybe you are married and it just seems that long. if you have a system, running windows 95, that has never crashed you’d better patent it. the biggest joke in the industry is trying to make it one day without a crash-lockup in win-95. BTW ms acknowledges the problem and has the fix. ben Bullshit. This unit was turned on in November of 1997. Is it still working? Andy Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. In medicine and mechanics.

– "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." —George Washington "In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place." -Mohandas Gandhi "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be even a worse fate. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." — Winston Churchill on the eve of Britain’s entry into World War II

Response:

if you have a system, running windows 95, that has never crashed you’d better patent it. the biggest joke in the industry is trying to make it one day without a crash-lockup in win-95. BTW ms acknowledges the problem and has the fix. ben – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bullshit. This unit was turned on in November of 1997. Is it still working? Andy Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. In medicine and mechanics.

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Question:

Hello, I’m located in Brazil. The Brazilian govenment has an incentive program for software exports. If one can write a software with a good selling potential, there will be a very generous financing of all the expenses involved in writing the SW, manuals, packaging and other related matters. Anyone have ideas about a new software need and how to market it?

Response:

The Brazilian govenment has an incentive program for software exports. If one can write a software with a good selling potential, there will be a very generous financing of all the expenses involved in writing the SW, manuals, packaging and other related matters.

This is a great opportunity of you! The government subsidizes, you get the international partners, the partners take care of the marketing expenditures and you’re on the way to the bank! Anyone have ideas about a new software need and how to market it?

I would suggest the "home-consumer" and "SOHO" segments. There is HUGE potential for local language markets, even with Microsoft and its home and SOHO products becoming available in more languages. Consider:         Hobby- music, genealogy, stamps, cooking         Organizers, personal finance, SOHO accounting, invoicing And you can develop quality software in VB4 or Delphi quickly. Rather than just going about getting international partners, I suggest you "focus" on Portugal, thus finding a Portuguese partner. Once the products are launched in Portugal and you have capital from the sales, turn around and introduce the same programs to the Brazilian market. All you then need to do is market, market, market and you’ll have the resources to do this with. Once the Brazilian market (and Portuguese market) are under way, all you have to do is translate the software and add/change options for the different countries. So the government in its "export" push allows you to use the same products for domestic. Of course the government wins but you also win and a greater win at that. As for the marketing…that depends on the products and segments, which is better left to when you’re close to realizing this opportunity.         RFD: misc.business.moderated moderated Unofficial http://www.nijenrode.nl/mbmm/mbm.html         Proponent:            misc.business.moderated

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