Question:

Lap dancing didn’t help finance my PhD but a $6 investment did.  Also, we have saying in Ireland, "before you make up your mind..open it". But I guess they don’t teach you that in ‘counting school’ do they !!

No, but in elementary school they taught us punctuation. In college they taught me European punctuation, so don’t even go there. What is your "PhD" in? A

Response:

Can I play with your tits for free? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Not all spam is a scam.  Try it before you critizie it.  I got nearly $3000 dollars in the post over the last few days.  That’s more than I thought I would get within 3 months. I don’t know if more is to come but so far it’s working. And even if I don’t get another cent, I’m happy. Why do you guys have to be so smug and skeptical.  Life’s too short …enjoy it..don’t moan about it.  If you gave it a chance you might be surprised

Response:

Not all spam is a scam.  Try it before you critizie it.  I got nearly $3000 dollars in the post over the last few days.  That’s more than I thought I would get within 3 months. I don’t know if more is to come but so far it’s working. And even if I don’t get another cent, I’m happy. Why do you guys have to be so smug and skeptical.  Life’s too short …enjoy it..don’t moan about it.  If you gave it a chance you might be surprised

It’s still illegal, even if you did get a few bucks.

Response:

Not all spam is a scam.  Try it before you critizie it.  I got nearly $3000 dollars in the post over the last few days.  That’s more than I thought I would get within 3 months. I don’t know if more is to come but so far it’s working. And even if I don’t get another cent, I’m happy. Why do you guys have to be so smug and skeptical.  Life’s too short …enjoy it..don’t moan about it.  If you gave it a chance you might be surprised It’s still illegal, even if you did get a few bucks.

That’s why shortly after the postal inspector comes-a-knocking, the IRS isn’t far behind. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens, Georgia taxman at negia.net

Response:

Not all spam is a scam.

And if you believe that i’ve got a bridge in Arizona to sell you.l "Finally a member of the Jackson family finds another young boy to victimize."                          referring to Justin                          Timberlake To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address.     —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Peddle your crap somewhere else. Des

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not all spam is a scam.  Try it before you critizie it.  I got nearly $3000 dollars in the post over the last few days.  That’s more than I thought I would get within 3 months. I don’t know if more is to come but so far it’s working. And even if I don’t get another cent, I’m happy. Why do you guys have to be so smug and skeptical.  Life’s too short …enjoy it..don’t moan about it.  If you gave it a chance you might be surprised

Response:

Not all spam is a scam.  Try it before you critizie it.  I got nearly $3000 dollars in the post over the last few days.  That’s more than I thought I would get within 3 months. I don’t know if more is to come but so far it’s working. And even if I don’t get another cent, I’m happy. Why do you guys have to be so smug and skeptical.  Life’s too short …enjoy it..don’t moan about it.  If you gave it a chance you might be surprised

your post office box will not be getting my $5 !! I am studying Accounting but do not understand your post.  We haven’t got to the chapter on pyramid schemes yet, so perhaps that explains my lack of understanding. Des

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Make Money Fast and Legally Amazing Cash Flow Program AMAZING INSTANT CASH FLOW PROGRAM THE RESULTS ARE OVERWHELMING!!!! THIS TRULY WORKS!!! Just read through it thoroughly, follow the directions exactly, within 1-3 weeks your CASH FLOW is coming in! Basic Facts A while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of CASH within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00 plus stamps! So I thought, "Yeah, right, this must be a scam!" But like most of us I was curious and kept reading. It said that if you send US $1.00 bill to each of the 6 names and addresses listed in the article, you could make thousands in a very short period of time. You then place your own name and address at the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article to at least 300 newsgroups. (There are hundreds of thousands of them out there and that’s quite a large market pool). No catch that is it. Even though the investment was a measly $6, I had three questions that needed to be answered before I could get involved in this sort of thing. 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL? I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I would actually make any CASH but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal business. 2. IS OK WITH THE POST OFFICE OR IS IT MAIL FRAUD? I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! (See 18, h sections1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing list. 3. IS IT RIGHT? Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT of CASH … a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket!!! So, having these questions answered, I invested EXACTLY $7.92 … six $1.00 bills and six 32 cent postage stamps … and boy I’m glad I did!!! Within 7 days, I started getting CASH in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon and didn’t give it another thought. But the CASH continued coming in. In my first week I made between $20 to $30. By the end of the second week I had a made a total of $1,000.00. In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it was still growing. This is now my fourth week. and I have made a total of just over $42,000 and it’s still coming in ….. It’s certainly worth $6.00 and 6 stamps!!! Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more CASH than you thought possible by doing something so easy! IMPORTANT: This is not a rip off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it is virtually no risk it really works!!!! PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it’s a service. Here are the 4 easy steps to success: STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Also, place your name address and e-mail address on the sheet of paper. Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name, address and e-mail address, and an US $1.00 Bill CURRENCY ONLY. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: #1) J.E. Grey 245 Stone Bridge Ct. Fredericton, NB E3A 1J2, Canada #2) R. Hanson 1214 Junor Ave. Saskatoon, SK S7L 7K1, Canada #3) Roy Wiley p.o.box 160 South Beach, Ore. 97366 U.S.A. #4) J. Granger p.p. Box 53 Morrisville, PA 19067 #5) Starr Luu 2330 South Quebec St. Apt. 102, Denver, CO 80231 #6) T.N. Meagher 11 Cluain Mhor, Clonmellon, Navan, Co Meath, Ireland Are You Paying Attention? Good. STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc…) and add YOUR NAME as number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 300 newsgroups. All you need is 300, but remember, the more you post, the more CASH you make! This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need CASH, you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER: That this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are a person of integrity, the program will continue and the CASH that so many others have received will come your way. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the US $1 Bill CURENCY ONLY in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of CASH in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 (US $1.00 for each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you’re in business! Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. ** By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the CASH to the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that and he only made about $150.00, and that’s after seven or eight weeks! Then he sent the 6 US $1.00 bills, people added him to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks he had over $10k. This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing anything but our time!!! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future CASH. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW! Also, try to keep a list of everyone that sends you CASH and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don’t need to cheat the basic idea to make the CASH!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is a ton of extra CASH. Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again… "People have asked me if this is really legal. Well, it is! You are using the Internet to advertise your business. What is that business? You are creating a mailing list of people who are interested in home based computer and online business and methods of generating income at home. Remember, people send you a small fee to be added to your mailing list. It is legal. What will you do with your list of thousands of names? That’s up to you." So, build your mailing list, keep good accounts, declare the income and pay your taxes. By doing this you prove your business intentions. Keep an eye on the newsgroups and when the cash has stopped coming (that means your name is no longer on the list), you just take the latest posting at the newsgroups, send another US $6.00 to the names stated on the list, make your corrections (put your name at #6) and start posting again. NOTES: *1. In some countries, the export of the country’s exchange is illegal. But you can get the license to do this from the post office, explaining the above statements (that you have an online business, etc. You may have to pay an extra tax, but that’s OK, the amount of the incoming CASH is HUGE! And as I said, a few countries have that restriction . *2. You may want to buy mailing and e- mail lists for future CASH.

… read more »

Response:

Not all spam is a scam.  Try it before you critizie it.  I got nearly $3000 dollars in the post over the last few days.  That’s more than I thought I would get within 3 months. I don’t know if more is to come but so far it’s working. And even if I don’t get another cent, I’m happy. Why do you guys have to be so smug and skeptical.  Life’s too short …enjoy it..don’t moan about it.  If you gave it a chance you might be surprised

Response:

its till a scam and you are still a scifosa

Response:

I am studying Accounting but do not understand your post.  We haven’t got to the chapter on pyramid schemes yet, so perhaps that explains my lack of understanding. Des

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Make Money Fast and Legally Amazing Cash Flow Program AMAZING INSTANT CASH FLOW PROGRAM THE RESULTS ARE OVERWHELMING!!!! THIS TRULY WORKS!!! Just read through it thoroughly, follow the directions exactly, within 1-3 weeks your CASH FLOW is coming in! Basic Facts A while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of CASH within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00 plus stamps! So I thought, "Yeah, right, this must be a scam!" But like most of us I was curious and kept reading. It said that if you send US $1.00 bill to each of the 6 names and addresses listed in the article, you could make thousands in a very short period of time. You then place your own name and address at the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article to at least 300 newsgroups. (There are hundreds of thousands of them out there and that’s quite a large market pool). No catch that is it. Even though the investment was a measly $6, I had three questions that needed to be answered before I could get involved in this sort of thing. 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL? I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I would actually make any CASH but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal business. 2. IS OK WITH THE POST OFFICE OR IS IT MAIL FRAUD? I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! (See 18, h sections1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing list. 3. IS IT RIGHT? Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT of CASH … a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket!!! So, having these questions answered, I invested EXACTLY $7.92 … six $1.00 bills and six 32 cent postage stamps … and boy I’m glad I did!!! Within 7 days, I started getting CASH in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon and didn’t give it another thought. But the CASH continued coming in. In my first week I made between $20 to $30. By the end of the second week I had a made a total of $1,000.00. In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it was still growing. This is now my fourth week. and I have made a total of just over $42,000 and it’s still coming in ….. It’s certainly worth $6.00 and 6 stamps!!! Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more CASH than you thought possible by doing something so easy! IMPORTANT: This is not a rip off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it is virtually no risk it really works!!!! PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it’s a service. Here are the 4 easy steps to success: STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Also, place your name address and e-mail address on the sheet of paper. Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name, address and e-mail address, and an US $1.00 Bill CURRENCY ONLY. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: #1) J.E. Grey 245 Stone Bridge Ct. Fredericton, NB E3A 1J2, Canada #2) R. Hanson 1214 Junor Ave. Saskatoon, SK S7L 7K1, Canada #3) Roy Wiley p.o.box 160 South Beach, Ore. 97366 U.S.A. #4) J. Granger p.p. Box 53 Morrisville, PA 19067 #5) Starr Luu 2330 South Quebec St. Apt. 102, Denver, CO 80231 #6) T.N. Meagher 11 Cluain Mhor, Clonmellon, Navan, Co Meath, Ireland Are You Paying Attention? Good. STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc…) and add YOUR NAME as number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 300 newsgroups. All you need is 300, but remember, the more you post, the more CASH you make! This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need CASH, you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER: That this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are a person of integrity, the program will continue and the CASH that so many others have received will come your way. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the US $1 Bill CURENCY ONLY in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of CASH in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 (US $1.00 for each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you’re in business! Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. ** By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the CASH to the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that and he only made about $150.00, and that’s after seven or eight weeks! Then he sent the 6 US $1.00 bills, people added him to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks he had over $10k. This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing anything but our time!!! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future CASH. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW! Also, try to keep a list of everyone that sends you CASH and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don’t need to cheat the basic idea to make the CASH!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is a ton of extra CASH. Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again… "People have asked me if this is really legal. Well, it is! You are using the Internet to advertise your business. What is that business? You are creating a mailing list of people who are interested in home based computer and online business and methods of generating income at home. Remember, people send you a small fee to be added to your mailing list. It is legal. What will you do with your list of thousands of names? That’s up to you." So, build your mailing list, keep good accounts, declare the income and pay your taxes. By doing this you prove your business intentions. Keep an eye on the newsgroups and when the cash has stopped coming (that means your name is no longer on the list), you just take the latest posting at the newsgroups, send another US $6.00 to the names stated on the list, make your corrections (put your name at #6) and start posting again. NOTES: *1. In some countries, the export of the country’s exchange is illegal. But you can get the license to do this from the post office, explaining the above statements (that you have an online business, etc. You may have to pay an extra tax, but that’s OK, the amount of the incoming CASH is HUGE! And as I said, a few countries have that restriction . *2. You may want to buy mailing and e- mail lists for future CASH. (Database or Spreadsheet software.) *3. If you’re really not sure or still think this can’t be for real, please print a copy of this article and give it to someone who really needs the CASH, and see what happens. *4. You will start getting responses within 1-2 weeks, it depends on how much you are posting, the more you post, the better the response will be. ***ALSO REMEMBER***SEND US $1 BILL CURRENCY ONLY!!!—OUT TO EVERYONE ON THE LIST, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT FROM THE U.S.

Response:

Lap dancing didn’t help finance my PhD but a $6 investment did.  Also, we have saying in Ireland, "before you make up your mind..open it". But I guess they don’t teach you that in ‘counting school’ do they !!

Response:

| 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL? | | I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I | would actually make any CASH but he said it WAS LEGAL

It’s not.  It’s called a pyramid scheme and is illegal. | 245 Stone Bridge Ct. Fredericton, NB E3A 1J2, Canada | 1214 Junor Ave. Saskatoon, SK S7L 7K1, Canada | 11 Cluain Mhor, Clonmellon, Navan, Co Meath, Ireland

Postage to Canada twice, postage to Ireland.  More than if they went to the US. | All you need is 300, but remember, the more you post, the more CASH | you make! This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to 18 | Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws.

Despite this it is still illegal in the US. | PLEASE REMEMBER: That this program remains successful because of the | honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully | adhering to the directions.

And it is successful becuase in the words of someone famous there is a sucker born every minute. | NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, | either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. | This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service.

Yeah. That service is called fraud. | Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again…

And if you believe they’re going to declare this income i’ve got a bridge in Arizona to sell you. "Finally a member of the Jackson family finds another young boy to victimize."                          referring to Justin                          Timberlake To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address.     —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

tessa stick with lap dancing

Response:

Even a newbie accountant will recognise this as the scam it really is. Ken Russell

| Make Money Fast and Legally | Amazing Cash Flow Program | AMAZING INSTANT CASH FLOW PROGRAM | | THE RESULTS ARE OVERWHELMING!!!! | | THIS TRULY WORKS!!! Just read through it thoroughly, follow the | directions exactly, within 1-3 weeks your CASH FLOW is coming in! | | Basic Facts A while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like | you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you | could make thousands of CASH within weeks with only an initial | investment of $6.00 plus stamps! So I thought, "Yeah, right, this must | be a scam!" But like most of us I was curious and kept reading. It | said that if you send US $1.00 bill to each of the 6 names and | addresses listed in the article, you could make thousands in a very | short period of time. You then place your own name and address at the | bottom of the list at #6, and post the article to at least 300 | newsgroups. (There are hundreds of thousands of them out there and | that’s quite a large market pool). No catch that is it. Even though | the investment was a measly $6, I had three questions that needed to | be answered before I could get involved in this sort of thing. | | 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL? | | I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I | would actually make any CASH but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to | try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the | details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal | business. | | 2. IS OK WITH THE POST OFFICE OR IS IT MAIL FRAUD? | | I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY | LEGAL! (See 18, h sections1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This | clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing | list. | | 3. IS IT RIGHT? | | Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT | of CASH … a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket!!! So, | having these questions answered, I invested EXACTLY $7.92 … six | $1.00 bills and six 32 cent postage stamps … and boy I’m glad I | did!!! Within 7 days, I started getting CASH in the mail! I was | shocked! I figured it would end soon and didn’t give it another | thought. But the CASH continued coming in. In my first week I made | between $20 to $30. By the end of the second week I had a made a total | of $1,000.00. In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it was still | growing. This is now my fourth week. and I have made a total of just | over $42,000 and it’s still coming in ….. It’s certainly worth $6.00 | and 6 stamps!!! | | Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get | the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you | follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more CASH | than you thought possible by doing something so easy! | | IMPORTANT: This is not a rip off; it is not indecent; it is not | illegal; and it is virtually no risk it really works!!!! | | PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or | more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful | because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please | continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You | will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your | product is not solid and tangible, it’s a service. | | Here are the 4 easy steps to success: | | STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each | piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Also, place your | name address and e-mail address on the sheet of paper. Now get 6 US | $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the | bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). | Place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should | now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the | above phrase, your name, address and e-mail address, and an US $1.00 | Bill CURRENCY ONLY. What you are doing is | creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a | legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a | little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it | all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) | and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! Mail the 6 envelopes to | the following addresses: | | | #1) J.E. Grey | 245 Stone Bridge Ct. Fredericton, NB E3A 1J2, Canada | | #2) R. Hanson | 1214 Junor Ave. Saskatoon, SK S7L 7K1, Canada | | #3) Roy Wiley | p.o.box 160 South Beach, Ore. 97366 U.S.A. | | #4) J. Granger | p.p. Box 53 Morrisville, PA 19067 | | #5) Starr Luu | 2330 South Quebec St. Apt. 102, Denver, CO 80231 | | #6) T.N. Meagher | 11 Cluain Mhor, Clonmellon, Navan, Co Meath, Ireland | | Are You Paying Attention? Good. STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the | list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 | becomes 4, etc…) and add YOUR NAME as number 6 on the list. | | STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as | close to original as | possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 300 newsgroups. | All you need is 300, but remember, the more you post, the more CASH | you make! This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to 18 | Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these | steps for yourself and, whenever you need CASH, you can use it again, | and again. | | PLEASE REMEMBER: That this program remains successful because of the | honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully | adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are a person | of integrity, the program will continue and the CASH that so many | others have received will come your way. | NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, | either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. | This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might | be a good idea to wrap the US $1 Bill CURENCY ONLY in dark paper to | reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the | directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for | their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your | name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name | reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of CASH in | CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 (US $1.00 for each of the | first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the | list and you’re in business! | | Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. | | ** By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages | with your name in the list and not sending the CASH to the rest of the | people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked | to knew someone who did that and he only made about $150.00, and | that’s after seven or eight weeks! Then he sent the 6 US $1.00 bills, | people added him to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks he had over $10k. | This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the | wealth of the world without costing anything but our time!!! You also | may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future CASH. Make sure | you print this article out RIGHT NOW! Also, try to keep a list of | everyone that sends you CASH and always keep an eye on the newsgroups | to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST | POLICY. You don’t need to cheat the basic idea to make | the CASH!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge | rewards from this, which is a ton of extra CASH. | | Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again… | | "People have asked me if this is really legal. Well, it is! You are | using the Internet to advertise your business. What is that business? | You are creating a mailing list of people who are interested in home | based computer and online business and methods of generating income at | home. Remember, people send you a small fee to be added to your | mailing list. It is legal. What will you do with your list of | thousands of names? That’s up to you." So, build your mailing list, | keep good accounts, declare the income and pay your taxes. By doing | this you prove your business intentions. Keep an eye on the newsgroups | and when the cash has stopped coming (that means your name is no | longer on the list), you just take the latest posting at the | newsgroups, send another US $6.00 to the names stated on the list, | make your corrections (put your name at #6) and start posting again. | | NOTES: *1. In some countries, the export of the country’s exchange is | illegal. But you can get the license to do this from the post office, | explaining the above statements (that you have an online business, | etc. You may have to pay an extra tax, but that’s OK, the amount of | the incoming CASH is HUGE! And as I said, a few countries have that | restriction . *2. You may want to buy mailing and e- mail lists for | future CASH. (Database or Spreadsheet software.) *3. If you’re really | not sure or still think this can’t be for real, please print a copy of | this article and give it to someone who really needs the CASH, and see | what happens. *4. You will start getting responses within 1-2 weeks, | it depends on how much you are posting, the more you post, the better | the response will be. | | ***ALSO REMEMBER***SEND US $1 BILL CURRENCY ONLY!!!—OUT TO EVERYONE | ON THE LIST, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT FROM THE U.S. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Make Money Fast and Legally Amazing Cash Flow Program AMAZING INSTANT CASH FLOW PROGRAM THE RESULTS ARE OVERWHELMING!!!! THIS TRULY WORKS!!! Just read through it thoroughly, follow the directions exactly, within 1-3 weeks your CASH FLOW is coming in! Basic Facts A while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of CASH within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00 plus stamps! So I thought, "Yeah, right, this must be a scam!" But like most of us I was curious and kept reading. It said that if you send US $1.00 bill to each of the 6 names and addresses listed in the article, you could make thousands in a very short period of time. You then place your own name and address at the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article to at least 300 newsgroups. (There are hundreds of thousands of them out there and that’s quite a large market pool). No catch that is it. Even though the investment was a measly $6, I had three questions that needed to be answered before I could get involved in this sort of thing. 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL? I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I would actually make any CASH but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal business. 2. IS OK WITH THE POST OFFICE OR IS IT MAIL FRAUD? I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! (See 18, h sections1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing list. 3. IS IT RIGHT? Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT of CASH … a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket!!! So, having these questions answered, I invested EXACTLY $7.92 … six $1.00 bills and six 32 cent postage stamps … and boy I’m glad I did!!! Within 7 days, I started getting CASH in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon and didn’t give it another thought. But the CASH continued coming in. In my first week I made between $20 to $30. By the end of the second week I had a made a total of $1,000.00. In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it was still growing. This is now my fourth week. and I have made a total of just over $42,000 and it’s still coming in ….. It’s certainly worth $6.00 and 6 stamps!!! Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more CASH than you thought possible by doing something so easy! IMPORTANT: This is not a rip off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it is virtually no risk it really works!!!! PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it’s a service. Here are the 4 easy steps to success: STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Also, place your name address and e-mail address on the sheet of paper. Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name, address and e-mail address, and an US $1.00 Bill CURRENCY ONLY. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: #1) J.E. Grey 245 Stone Bridge Ct. Fredericton, NB E3A 1J2, Canada #2) R. Hanson 1214 Junor Ave. Saskatoon, SK S7L 7K1, Canada #3) Roy Wiley p.o.box 160 South Beach, Ore. 97366 U.S.A. #4) J. Granger p.p. Box 53 Morrisville, PA 19067 #5) Starr Luu 2330 South Quebec St. Apt. 102, Denver, CO 80231 #6) T.N. Meagher 11 Cluain Mhor, Clonmellon, Navan, Co Meath, Ireland Are You Paying Attention? Good. STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc…) and add YOUR NAME as number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 300 newsgroups. All you need is 300, but remember, the more you post, the more CASH you make! This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need CASH, you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER: That this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are a person of integrity, the program will continue and the CASH that so many others have received will come your way. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the US $1 Bill CURENCY ONLY in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of CASH in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 (US $1.00 for each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you’re in business! Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. ** By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the CASH to the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that and he only made about $150.00, and that’s after seven or eight weeks! Then he sent the 6 US $1.00 bills, people added him to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks he had over $10k. This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing anything but our time!!! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future CASH. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW! Also, try to keep a list of everyone that sends you CASH and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don’t need to cheat the basic idea to make the CASH!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is a ton of extra CASH. Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again… "People have asked me if this is really legal. Well, it is! You are using the Internet to advertise your business. What is that business? You are creating a mailing list of people who are interested in home based computer and online business and methods of generating income at home. Remember, people send you a small fee to be added to your mailing list. It is legal. What will you do with your list of thousands of names? That’s up to you." So, build your mailing list, keep good accounts, declare the income and pay your taxes. By doing this you prove your business intentions. Keep an eye on the newsgroups and when the cash has stopped coming (that means your name is no longer on the list), you just take the latest posting at the newsgroups, send another US $6.00 to the names stated on the list, make your corrections (put your name at #6) and start posting again. NOTES: *1. In some countries, the export of the country’s exchange is illegal. But you can get the license to do this from the post office, explaining the above statements (that you have an online business, etc. You may have to pay an extra tax, but that’s OK, the amount of the incoming CASH is HUGE! And as I said, a few countries have that restriction . *2. You may want to buy mailing and e- mail lists for future CASH. (Database or Spreadsheet software.) *3. If you’re really not sure or still think this can’t be for real, please print a copy of this article and give it to someone who really needs the CASH, and see what happens. *4. You will start getting responses within 1-2 weeks, it depends on how much you are posting, the more you post, the better the response will be. ***ALSO REMEMBER***SEND US $1 BILL CURRENCY ONLY!!!—OUT TO EVERYONE ON THE LIST, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT FROM THE U.S.

Response:

Question:

It’s a cliche that tax accountants and their clients are fond of grumbling about the taxes they pay which is completely understandable.  However, in light of recent events that have placed our soldiers in harms way at a large cost in both human and fiscal terms, is there a little more cheerfulness lately about paying tax or at least less grumbling? As accountants, are we less likely to accomodate very aggressive and probably legal positions amid renewed patriotic fervor or is it pretty much business as usual?

Response:

It’s a cliche that tax accountants and their clients are fond of grumbling about the taxes they pay which is completely understandable.  However, in light of recent events that have placed our soldiers in harms way at a large cost in both human and fiscal terms, is there a little more cheerfulness lately about paying tax or at least less grumbling? As accountants, are we less likely to accomodate very aggressive and probably legal positions amid renewed patriotic fervor or is it pretty much business as usual?

Pretty much ‘business as usual’. I’m not going to tell my clients to pay more taxes because "the boys are at war". — Paul A. Thomas, CPA, PC Athens, Georgia

Response:

Question:

<<SNIPPED a bunch of stuff which seemed to be quite accurate None of that material supported the statement by seetheplane, "Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash flow." What I suspect he did was make the common mistake of calling the backing out of non-cash expenses a source of cash because such numbers are added to net income to determine operating cash flow for the period. Regards, Bill

Response:

I see two error in this thread (not to mention it’s being off subject) 1) I did not quote the full Glossary discription (my fault) 2) You did not read my post correctly which may or may not have helped <g I did not originaly say "free cash"  I said "free cash flow" As defined in the glossary: Free cash flows = Sales (Revenues from operations) – COGS (Cost of goods sold-labor, material, book depreciation) – SG&A (Selling, general administrative costs) EBIT (Earnings before interest and taxes or Operating Earnings) – Taxes (Cash taxes) EBIAT (Earnings before interest after taxes) + DEP (Book depreciation) – CAPX (Capital expenditures) – ChgWC (Change in working capital) C (Free cash flows) That URL is http://www.duke.edu/~charvey/Classes/wpg/glossary.htm <<SNIPPED a bunch of stuff which seemed to be quite accurate None of that material supported the statement by seetheplane, "Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash flow." What I suspect he did was make the common mistake of calling the backing out of non-cash expenses a source of cash because such numbers are added to net income to determine operating cash flow for the period. Regards, Bill

-       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

I see two error in this thread (not to mention it’s being off subject) 1) I did not quote the full Glossary discription (my fault) 2) You did not read my post correctly which may or may not have helped <g

Yes, I did. I did not originaly say "free cash"  I said "free cash flow"

The full quote is in the post of mine you quoted below. As defined in the glossary: Free cash flows = Sales (Revenues from operations) – COGS (Cost of goods sold-labor, material, book depreciation) – SG&A (Selling, general administrative costs) EBIT (Earnings before interest and taxes or Operating Earnings) – Taxes (Cash taxes) EBIAT (Earnings before interest after taxes) + DEP (Book depreciation)

The above line is support for my contention that you made "the common mistake of calling the backing out of non-cash expenses a source of cash because such numbers are added to net income to determine operating cash flow for the period." Depreciation is not a source of cash. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - CAPX (Capital expenditures) – ChgWC (Change in working capital) C (Free cash flows) That URL is http://www.duke.edu/~charvey/Classes/wpg/glossary.htm <<SNIPPED a bunch of stuff which seemed to be quite accurate None of that material supported the statement by seetheplane, "Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash flow." What I suspect he did was make the common mistake of calling the

   ^^^^ backing out of non-cash expenses a source of cash because such numbers are added to net income to determine operating cash flow for the period.

Regards, Bill

Response:

You are correct. I posted it for the benefit of the person who asked the original question. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<SNIPPED a bunch of stuff which seemed to be quite accurate None of that material supported the statement by seetheplane, "Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash flow." What I suspect he did was make the common mistake of calling the backing out of non-cash expenses a source of cash because such numbers are added to net income to determine operating cash flow for the period. Regards, Bill

Response:

Wow… there’s actually over a million!  I’ve read the dozen or so posts in response to my original question, and now  I’m even more confused than ever. One answer even said "Both" !!  Reading through those posts, I feel I’ve been through a whole accountancy course.  Maybe I’ll just ask my consultant to explain it to me. It’ll cost an arm an a leg though… maybe that’s what depreciation is… diminuition in value over time… to my bank account!! thanks to all Haskey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over 300,000 ,eh….. and none of them will give you a straight answer as to whether depreciation is a debit or a credit…!! Evasive or what! According to the AICPA, about 1 million, with 300,000 being CPA’s. Exact quote: "There were almost 1.1 million accountants in 1998. Most of them worked in cities, because that is where the large companies tend to be. " http://stats.bls.gov/k12/text/mat%5F002t.htm Here, the AICPA claims 330,000 members: http://www.aicpa.org/index.htm

Response:

<<SNIP Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash I won’t evaluate the entire post but I have to say this. Depreciation is NOT a source of cash. Regards, Bill

The only part you were willing to disagree on was the part I quoted strait out of my Internet Glossary from Duke Ed. but I have to admit it’s hard to support the notion (unless it was talking about the Tax coffer’s pockets <G –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<SNIP Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash I won’t evaluate the entire post but I have to say this. Depreciation is NOT a source of cash. Regards, Bill The only part you were willing to disagree on was the part I quoted

No. It’s the only part I was willing to analyze in enough detail to respond to. In general, your logic is … a challenge to follow. For example, you said, "Depreciation is a debit to your tax liability and a credit to your expense ledger at the same time." In fact, depreciation is a debit to an expense account (or to inventory for a manufacturer) and a credit to a contra-asset account. Ultimately, tax liability is lower because of depreciation and a liability balance is made smaller by a debit entry. However, depreciation for financial reporting and cost recovery for tax determination are two quite different issues. strait out of my Internet Glossary from Duke Ed. but I have to admit

You have an URL on that? If your source does say that depreciation is a source of cash, I’d like to see what else is said there. Regards, Bill

Response:

The assets, (resources controlled by the entity) completely used in an accounting period to earn revenue are expensed. Certain assets, will not be completely consumed during an accounting period. Those assets, "Capital assets" are recorded in the ledger at cost and appear on the balance sheet at that value. Over a number of accounting periods capital assets are consumed in the process of generating revenue. Depreciation / Amortization is the process used to recognize that during the accounting period prepaid capital assets have changed in value. The most common change is the loss of value. The "Matching Principal" expenses incurred to earn revenue is the concept. Some Capital assets land and certain intangibles are not "consumed" and are not depreciated. The accounting process has some fundamental concepts  - assumptions, principles, elements of financial statements and from this spring the detailed practices and procedures. The "Continuity Assumption", "going-concern" assumes that a business will follow it objective in the foreseeable future. This is why when a capital asset is purchased a decision is made to choose an approved orderly system for depreciation recognition for the life of the asset rather than an annual estimation of consumption value – continuity.  If the predetermined consumption expense process fails to keep pace with the actual consumption use of the asset then that fact must be addressed and disclosed. (Full- Disclosure Principle) There are certain assets that increase in value and the recognition of that is another argument. The "posting" of depreciation is normally a credit to a separate "contra account"; the assets remain on the balance sheet at cost and the consumption is shown as a negative value and a debit to depreciation expense. Depreciation is a non-cash expense for the accounting period because it is the recognition of past cash expense. RE: RE:

Over 300,000 ,eh….. and none of them will give you a straight answer as to whether depreciation is a debit or a credit…!! Evasive or what!

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No. It’s the only part I was willing to analyze in enough detail to respond to. In general, your logic is … a challenge to follow. For example, you said, "Depreciation is a debit to your tax liability and a credit to your expense ledger at the same time." In fact, depreciation is a debit to an expense account (or to inventory for a manufacturer) and a credit to a contra-asset account. Ultimately, tax liability is lower because of depreciation and a liability balance is made smaller by a debit entry. However, depreciation for financial reporting and cost recovery for tax determination are two quite different issues. strait out of my Internet Glossary from Duke Ed. but I have to admit You have an URL on that? If your source does say that depreciation is a source of cash, I’d like to see what else is said there. Regards, Bill

Response:

You are correct. I posted it for the benefit of the person who asked the original question.

… who stopped reading days ago.   –Rick

Response:

Any teenage acounting student should be able to explain to you that with each entry there is a debit and a credit. That applies even to depreciation, debit depreciation expense, credit depreciation accumulated in respect of the asset. Roger What’s your point?

Sorry It appears you were not reply to me but to the post before mine. My mistake! –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

Any teenage acounting student should be able to explain to you that with each entry there is a debit and a credit. That applies even to depreciation, debit depreciation expense, credit depreciation accumulated in respect of the asset. Roger

What’s your point? The question was – _which one is it_? Your reply supports my contention that the question is _amiss_ since Depreciation _itself_ is neither. You could also say it’s an expense _and_ an asset (I would hope) if it has value. I just don’t explain it very well. It’s not a credit or a debit but rather "An allowance made for a loss in value of property." (usually) –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

Wow… there’s actually over a million!  I’ve read the dozen or so posts in response to my original question, and now  I’m even more confused than ever. One answer even said "Both" !!  Reading through those posts, I feel I’ve been through a whole accountancy course.  Maybe I’ll just ask my consultant to explain it to me. It’ll cost an arm an a leg though… maybe that’s what depreciation is… diminuition in value over time… to my bank account!!

Any teenage acounting student should be able to explain to you that with each entry there is a debit and a credit. That applies even to depreciation, debit depreciation expense, credit depreciation accumulated in respect of the asset. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks to all Haskey If you knew the definition of credit and debit and you knew the definition of depreciation then you would know why you cant get a strait answer. Don’t bother paying someone to tell you – just try to figure out what’s wrong with the question. (or tell us why you asked it) –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

Wow… there’s actually over a million!  I’ve read the dozen or so posts in response to my original question, and now  I’m even more confused than ever. One answer even said "Both" !!  Reading through those posts, I feel I’ve been through a whole accountancy course.  Maybe I’ll just ask my consultant to explain it to me. It’ll cost an arm an a leg though… maybe that’s what depreciation is… diminuition in value over time… to my bank account!! thanks to all Haskey

If you knew the definition of credit and debit and you knew the definition of depreciation then you would know why you cant get a strait answer. Don’t bother paying someone to tell you – just try to figure out what’s wrong with the question. (or tell us why you asked it) –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

I see two error in this thread (not to mention it’s being off subject) 1) I did not quote the full Glossary discription (my fault) 2) You did not read my post correctly which may or may not have helped <g Yes, I did.

I see now. Thanks for the clarification. I just THOUGHT you misread me based on the post of yours I read yesterday (copied just bellow) <<SNIP Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash I won’t evaluate the entire post but I have to say this. Depreciation is NOT a source of cash.

–       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

Neither CPAa nor teachers have monopoly on good answers. Your answer makes sense and this is what counts. greg — http://greg.misiorek.home.att.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over 300,000 ,eh….. and none of them will give you a straight answer as to whether depreciation is a debit or a credit…!! Evasive or what! It’s both. It’s not evasive, just overly simple. It just depends what your talking about and what your depreciating. Sometimes you depreciate property that acctualy is going up in value (real estate) and other times you depreciate items that deminish (trucks) Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash flow. It’s an amount allocated during the period to amortize the cost of acquiring long-term assets over the useful life of the assets. Credits and Debits are bookkeeping terms that describe what your doing in your books (adding to an account or duducting from an account) Depreciation can be a debit to your tax liability and a credit to your expense ledger at the same time. It’s BOTH I’m sure, since I’m not a teacher or a CPA, (just a part time bookkeeper) there are a hundred guys (and gals) here that can explain it much better than I can. –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

<<SNIP Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash

I won’t evaluate the entire post but I have to say this. Depreciation is NOT a source of cash. Regards, Bill

Response:

I am looking for information about how many accountants in US and would surely be glad if someone could point me in the right direction. regards, Dan Pedersen

Response:

There are over 300,000 CPAs. I would think there are probably ten times more who perform accounting taks in their jobs. greg — http://greg.misiorek.home.att.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for information about how many accountants in US and would surely be glad if someone could point me in the right direction. regards, Dan Pedersen

Response:

Over 300,000 ,eh….. and none of them will give you a straight answer as to whether depreciation is a debit or a credit…!! Evasive or what! It’s both.

It’s not evasive, just overly simple. It just depends what your talking about and what your depreciating. Sometimes you depreciate property that acctualy is going up in value (real estate) and other times you depreciate items that deminish (trucks) Depreciation is a non-cash expense that provides a source of free cash flow. It’s an amount allocated during the period to amortize the cost of acquiring long-term assets over the useful life of the assets. Credits and Debits are bookkeeping terms that describe what your doing in your books (adding to an account or duducting from an account) Depreciation can be a debit to your tax liability and a credit to your expense ledger at the same time.   It’s BOTH I’m sure, since I’m not a teacher or a CPA, (just a part time bookkeeper) there are a hundred guys (and gals) here that can explain it much better than I can. –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

Over 300,000 ,eh….. and none of them will give you a straight answer as to whether depreciation is a debit or a credit…!! Evasive or what!

It’s both.

Response:

Over 300,000 ,eh….. and none of them will give you a straight answer as to whether depreciation is a debit or a credit…!! Evasive or what! Haskey

It’s both –       ____       _    | ____o____/_|    |  o’

Response:

3.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for information about how many accountants in US and would surely be glad if someone could point me in the right direction. regards, Dan Pedersen

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Over 300,000 ,eh….. and none of them will give you a straight answer as to whether depreciation is a debit or a credit…!! Evasive or what! Haskey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are over 300,000 CPAs. I would think there are probably ten times more who perform accounting taks in their jobs. greg — http://greg.misiorek.home.att.net I am looking for information about how many accountants in US and would surely be glad if someone could point me in the right direction. regards, Dan Pedersen

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Question:

If a company owns a truck, it is an asset.  If a company issues preferred stock, the preferred stock is not an asset of the company (someone else owns it). Preferred or common stock are similar to debt for a company, in that they represent a claim on the assets of the company.  Like liability accounts, ledger accounts for stock issued are increased with a credit and decreased with a debit.

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Remember the proper balance of your equity accounts is CREDIT (equity is really a liability account: payable to the owners/shareholders).  You DEBIT preferred stocks to DECREASE the cost of shares and CREDIT common stocks to INCREASE the cost of shares. Keith Wong, MBA

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Hi. I am in a second accounting course. I am not sure about the journal entry to record converting preferred stock into common stock. I understand that if you have 1000 shares of preferred convertible stock that cost $100 each, and you can convert them to 10,000 shares of common stock worth $10 each at the time of the original purchase, so if the price of the common stock goes up more than the price of the preferred, it might be profitable to convert. et’s say the preferred stock goes up to $101 and the common stock goes up to $12. But I don’t understand the journal entry in my book;            Preferred Stock            $100,000                     Common Stock                       $100,000 OK you use the book value of the stock to convert. But why is the Preferred stock debited? If the guy is getting rid of the preferred stock- trading it for common stock- shouldn’t the  preferred stock be a credit? Like if he was selling a truck for $1000, the truck would be $1000 credit and the cash would be $1000 debit. Thanks. gary.

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Question:

Hello, FAS 109 is a Financial Accounting Standard issued by the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB). FAS 109 refers to the tax charge, tax liabilities, deferred tax liabilities and/or deferred tax assets to be recorded in financial statements in accordance with US GAAP (which can be different from accounting policies for tax purposes). If differences exist between accounting principles for financial statements purposes and for tax purposes, it is most probably that a deferred tax asset or liability has to be recorded in the financial statements. It has nothing to do with the calculation of actual liability to the tax authorities. There’s a good book on the FAS’s. It is called "Intermediate accounting" (Can’t remember the writers). You can get it on Amazon (expensive though!). Good luck! Marc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all ;o) I had an interview for my first entry level tax job and my potential employer mentioned in the course of the interview that knowledge of FAS 109 was key in the job and with that she added I would be trained to become involved in the tax provision process under FAS 109… Could someone highlight for me PLEASE what this means ?!!! URGENT…second interview upcoming !! Thanks in advance to any one who can bring some light to me on this ! Before you buy.

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Hello all ;o) I had an interview for my first entry level tax job and my potential employer mentioned in the course of the interview that knowledge of FAS 109 was key in the job and with that she added I would be trained to become involved in the tax provision process under FAS 109… Could someone highlight for me PLEASE what this means ?!!! URGENT…second interview upcoming !! Thanks in advance to any one who can bring some light to me on this ! Before you buy.

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Question:

Almost any point of sale system can handle this conversion.  Pick a search engine and find someone local.  Good support is vital in POS. Let me know if you would like recommendations in your area. Dave http://www.cypresspos.com Southern California’s choice for retail pos. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Next, we have a showroom that we sell a small amount of books in. We would like to be able to scan the barcode that is on the back of each book and have it come up on our point of sale system. However, the barcode on the back of the book is a UPC code. Know where I am going with this yet? Is there anything at all that you know of that could program or commercially available that could convert the scanned barcode (UPC) into our product code and put the product code into the Point of Sale Program.  I envision programing the conversion codes, in other words I would manually put the UPC one time into some type of database and then put in the corresponding code into the database program as well. Thus, to have something that we could run on the point of sale computer that would interpret the barcode into our product code would be awesome. Please let me know if anybody has any suggestions, whether you know of a program that will do this or you know of something else that is commercially available. Brandon Lubbert I would appreciate it if you would reply to the newgroup as well as to my personal email.

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http://www.triad.com/ LB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This sounds like something I need to look at further.  Do you happened to have any contact information? I will take a quick look on the net, but not sure if I can find it. Brandon Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! The only bar code system I have used is a Traid system designed for hardware stores. The way that system works is that the UPC would be tied to a part number, so when you scan the products UPC you would come up with the part number, which we could change if needed. I haven’t looked close at any bar code system but I think they all work basically the same. www.negate.com Hi,  Here is my problem: We are a wholesale bookstore that sells book mostly through the mail. Thus, when we accept an order we use codes for our books that people can remember like the first five letter of the book title so that our employees can order the book and not have to recall the UPC number for the book. That is the simple part. Next, we have a showroom that we sell a small amount of books in. We would like to be able to scan the barcode that is on the back of each book and have it come up on our point of sale system. However, the barcode on the back of the book is a UPC code. Know where I am going with this yet? Is there anything at all that you know of that could program or commercially available that could convert the scanned barcode (UPC) into our product code and put the product code into the Point of Sale Program.  I envision programing the conversion codes, in other words I would manually put the UPC one time into some type of database and then put in the corresponding code into the database program as well. Here is the reason behind my request. We spend hours put and printing tags onto each book. Because the labels have to be removeable, our expense for labels is also quite high. What I am envisioning is a small customer program that when started would be triggered by the barcode scanner and then send the translated code through the keyboard as if I typed it in. Thus, to have something that we could run on the point of sale computer that would interpret the barcode into our product code would be awesome. Please let me know if anybody has any suggestions, whether you know of a program that will do this or you know of something else that is commercially available. Brandon Lubbert I would appreciate it if you would reply to the newgroup as well as to my personal email.

Response:

Hi,  Here is my problem: We are a wholesale bookstore that sells book mostly through the mail. Thus, when we accept an order we use codes for our books that people can remember like the first five letter of the book title so that our employees can order the book and not have to recall the UPC number for the book. That is the simple part. Next, we have a showroom that we sell a small amount of books in. We would like to be able to scan the barcode that is on the back of each book and have it come up on our point of sale system. However, the barcode on the back of the book is a UPC code. Know where I am going with this yet? Is there anything at all that you know of that could program or commercially available that could convert the scanned barcode (UPC) into our product code and put the product code into the Point of Sale Program.  I envision programing the conversion codes, in other words I would manually put the UPC one time into some type of database and then put in the corresponding code into the database program as well. Here is the reason behind my request. We spend hours put and printing tags onto each book. Because the labels have to be removeable, our expense for labels is also quite high. What I am envisioning is a small customer program that when started would be triggered by the barcode scanner and then send the translated code through the keyboard as if I typed it in. Thus, to have something that we could run on the point of sale computer that would interpret the barcode into our product code would be awesome. Please let me know if anybody has any suggestions, whether you know of a program that will do this or you know of something else that is commercially available. Brandon Lubbert I would appreciate it if you would reply to the newgroup as well as to my personal email.

Response:

I’m reasonably certain you are referring to Triad, which is a Unix fossil.  It has a following in auto parts stores, as well as a few other industires, possibly plumbing supplies. Most Triad sites converted rather than upgrade to solve their Y2K issues. Bar code, Point of Sale and UPC systems are readily available.  As I recall, Gale Research has a database of book titles. An example of part number conversion is an enhancement we offer for UA Corporate Accounting systems.  IC-1040 Inventory Item Alias Part Number http://www.cpaccess.com/enhmnts/ic1040.htm . Respectfully,  - Carl Dick www.cpaccess.com 949-261-2694 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This sounds like something I need to look at further.  Do you happened to have any contact information? I will take a quick look on the net, but not sure if I can find it. Brandon Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! The only bar code system I have used is a Traid system designed for hardware stores. The way that system works is that the UPC would be tied to a part number, so when you scan the products UPC you would come up with the part number, which we could change if needed. I haven’t looked close at any bar code system but I think they all work basically the same. www.negate.com Hi,  Here is my problem: We are a wholesale bookstore that sells book mostly through the mail. Thus, when we accept an order we use codes for our books that people can remember like the first five letter of the book title so that our employees can order the book and not have to recall the UPC number for the book. That is the simple part. Next, we have a showroom that we sell a small amount of books in. We would like to be able to scan the barcode that is on the back of each book and have it come up on our point of sale system. However, the barcode on the back of the book is a UPC code. Know where I am going with this yet? Is there anything at all that you know of that could program or commercially available that could convert the scanned barcode (UPC) into our product code and put the product code into the Point of Sale Program.  I envision programing the conversion codes, in other words I would manually put the UPC one time into some type of database and then put in the corresponding code into the database program as well. Here is the reason behind my request. We spend hours put and printing tags onto each book. Because the labels have to be removeable, our expense for labels is also quite high. What I am envisioning is a small customer program that when started would be triggered by the barcode scanner and then send the translated code through the keyboard as if I typed it in. Thus, to have something that we could run on the point of sale computer that would interpret the barcode into our product code would be awesome. Please let me know if anybody has any suggestions, whether you know of a program that will do this or you know of something else that is commercially available. Brandon Lubbert I would appreciate it if you would reply to the newgroup as well as to my personal email.

Response:

This sounds like something I need to look at further.  Do you happened to have any contact information? I will take a quick look on the net, but not sure if I can find it. Brandon Thanks so much for taking the time to respond!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only bar code system I have used is a Traid system designed for hardware stores. The way that system works is that the UPC would be tied to a part number, so when you scan the products UPC you would come up with the part number, which we could change if needed. I haven’t looked close at any bar code system but I think they all work basically the same. www.negate.com Hi,  Here is my problem: We are a wholesale bookstore that sells book mostly through the mail. Thus, when we accept an order we use codes for our books that people can remember like the first five letter of the book title so that our employees can order the book and not have to recall the UPC number for the book. That is the simple part. Next, we have a showroom that we sell a small amount of books in. We would like to be able to scan the barcode that is on the back of each book and have it come up on our point of sale system. However, the barcode on the back of the book is a UPC code. Know where I am going with this yet? Is there anything at all that you know of that could program or commercially available that could convert the scanned barcode (UPC) into our product code and put the product code into the Point of Sale Program.  I envision programing the conversion codes, in other words I would manually put the UPC one time into some type of database and then put in the corresponding code into the database program as well. Here is the reason behind my request. We spend hours put and printing tags onto each book. Because the labels have to be removeable, our expense for labels is also quite high. What I am envisioning is a small customer program that when started would be triggered by the barcode scanner and then send the translated code through the keyboard as if I typed it in. Thus, to have something that we could run on the point of sale computer that would interpret the barcode into our product code would be awesome. Please let me know if anybody has any suggestions, whether you know of a program that will do this or you know of something else that is commercially available. Brandon Lubbert I would appreciate it if you would reply to the newgroup as well as to my personal email.

Response:

The only bar code system I have used is a Traid system designed for hardware stores. The way that system works is that the UPC would be tied to a part number, so when you scan the products UPC you would come up with the part number, which we could change if needed. I haven’t looked close at any bar code system but I think they all work basically the same. www.negate.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,  Here is my problem: We are a wholesale bookstore that sells book mostly through the mail. Thus, when we accept an order we use codes for our books that people can remember like the first five letter of the book title so that our employees can order the book and not have to recall the UPC number for the book. That is the simple part. Next, we have a showroom that we sell a small amount of books in. We would like to be able to scan the barcode that is on the back of each book and have it come up on our point of sale system. However, the barcode on the back of the book is a UPC code. Know where I am going with this yet? Is there anything at all that you know of that could program or commercially available that could convert the scanned barcode (UPC) into our product code and put the product code into the Point of Sale Program.  I envision programing the conversion codes, in other words I would manually put the UPC one time into some type of database and then put in the corresponding code into the database program as well. Here is the reason behind my request. We spend hours put and printing tags onto each book. Because the labels have to be removeable, our expense for labels is also quite high. What I am envisioning is a small customer program that when started would be triggered by the barcode scanner and then send the translated code through the keyboard as if I typed it in. Thus, to have something that we could run on the point of sale computer that would interpret the barcode into our product code would be awesome. Please let me know if anybody has any suggestions, whether you know of a program that will do this or you know of something else that is commercially available. Brandon Lubbert I would appreciate it if you would reply to the newgroup as well as to my personal email.

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Question:

Does anyone have any excel 95 templates for the accouinting field? I would greatly appreciate anything. Key word is also "FREE"

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Does anyone have any excel 95 templates for the accouinting field? I would greatly appreciate anything. Key word is also "FREE"

Try CNET, or any of the other shareware sites.  "Accounting templates" is too broad a category to respond to.  This couls everything from a depreciation template to God knows what.  Try any seach engine and search for freeware. — Mondo Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

Hi group! I’m interested in advice/suggestions/resources on designing workpapers for analysis and audit protection/insurance purposes.  Do you find a particular process or approach useful in determining and developing readable meaningful workpapers? Thanks in advance for sharing your views

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I’m interested in advice/suggestions/resources on designing workpapers for analysis and audit protection/insurance purposes.  Do you find a particular process or approach useful in determining and developing readable meaningful workpapers?

        IMHO, the most important thing is to make sure that someone else reviewing workpapers can easily understand them (e.g. why and how you are making certain calculations). Accountants tend to be busy people, so we occasionally forget that what seems obvious to us (the ones who created the working papers) might not be obvious to someone who has never seen them.         When I used to work for a CPA firm, our working papers were always reviewed by another accountant at the firm (someone who had "fresh eyes"). "Only two things are infinite, the universe  and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about  the former."                                 – Albert Einstein      

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Question:

Could you help me to solve this question?   ‘The accepted accounting principles of prudence, realisation and stable monetary unit are largely rationalisation of traditonal practice, not the result of accounting theory.’    Discuss this statement with particular reference to the traditional methods of recognising value changes in fixed assets.    Thank you for your help!!!!!!

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Could you help me to solve this question?  ’The accepted accounting principles of prudence, realisation and stable monetary unit are largely rationalisation of traditonal practice, not the result of accounting theory.’   Discuss this statement with particular reference to the traditional methods of recognising value changes in fixed assets.

well… they’re more a result of one set of people (shareholders) requiring something they can rely on because they’ve given their money to another set of people (directors) to invest on their behalf. I’d say that on balance… prudence is good accounting theory. realisation?  Not entirely sure what this means, but I guess it’s saying that you match the cost of something against the period over which it’s being used up.  This also seems to be good accounting theory to me. Stable monetary unit…  this was experimented with in the UK several years ago.  The Accounting Practices Board issued a Statement of Standard Accounting Practice which stated that all companies must also prepare their primary statements under current cost accounting.  Most companies refused to comply (thus risking qualification, in practice this didn’t happen) and in the end the APB had to retreat. — "If you want to look at my feet, say so," said the young man.  "But don’t be a God-damned sneak about it."                               (from "A Perfect Day for Bananafish")

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Question:

Can anyone explain to me why so many of the major baddie flus start in the East: Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, bird flu?

I would guess that Africa and Asia have had a human population longer than other parts of the world. Viruses and bacteria may have evolved at a faster rate in these places because of a longer contact with human ‘hosts’. Or…maybe these organisms are being threatened somehow by stresses on their/our habitat…{shrug} Carole

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Can anyone explain to me why so many of the major baddie flus start in the East: Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, bird flu?

They don’t mind offending the East when they drum up vaccine sales.   Nothing like some new virus to get everyone running for the medical industry to save them.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (APMODELER) writes: It wouldn’t – the Hong Kong bird flu is another great example of emerging diseases among susceptible populations

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No.  There appears to be a  shortage of  selenium in the soil there.  Selenium appears to  slow  viral propagation.   However, it also appears to reduce human life-span if taken in even slight excess. RS

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I believe perhaps you have misunderstood what you have posted. Antibiotics are not "bad" for the immune system; the problem is the overuse of antibiotics for any and everything, which gives the bugs a chance to develop resistance to them.  They become "superbugs" which cannot be treated with the customary antibiotics because the bugs are immune to them.  And this is, indeed, a BIG problem today.

You shouldn’t use the term "immune" in reference to "bugs" and antibiotics. Antibiotics fail to kill bacteria through bacterial resistance mechanisms. Bacteria do not have immune system that convey immunity to antibiotics.  The BIG problem is the selection and spread of "resistant" bacteria.

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Can anyone explain to me why so many of the major baddie flus start in the East: Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, bird flu? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (APMODELER) writes: It wouldn’t – the Hong Kong bird flu is another great example of emerging diseases among susceptible populations

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Feh.  You don’t know what I believe, Tom, so don’t go putting words in my mouth.  All I said was that I’d never heard that antibiotics are bad for the immune system. Now, would you care to back up your blanket assertion, or do you insist that I blindly believe what you say simply because it’s you who’s saying it? Just like most prescription drugs, using antibiotics for long period of time weakens immune system in humans and animals. I don’t have medical reoprts regarding this situation on hand, but it makes sense that antibiotics are bad. Maybe in some circumstances they are needed, but even that they should not be used for too long period of time. Tom Goodman Mark 1:15  And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

It may not be "scientifically proven" that the prolonged use of antibiotics weakens the immune system, but it makes infinite common sense, which is what is supposed to separate us from inanimate objects, including the ultra-logical scientific method.  Science is linear, whereas knowledge is not, and one must remember that science is only one organization of the available information.         If one removes the need for a strong immune system, the system no longer has any evolutionary pressure to be ready for all comers.  This must, ultimately, result in the loss of potential in the system. Antibiotics serve their purpose, but the manner in which they are currently used will inevitably result in loss of immune-response potential in humans, whether the scientific literature "proves" it or not.  The argument is logical, not scientific.         A Sympathetic MD

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(APMODELER) writes: As far as the nominal subject of the emergence of a new flu strain, I didn’t think anyone was attributing that to human drug use (I thought it was basically a given that flus arise in that area of the world due to close proximity of dense populations and animals), but I suppose that _theoretically_ it’s possible that if the poultry birds in SE Asia are being dosed with antibiotics that might account for it.

But, isn’t the "bird flu" viral, like other flus?  How then would antibiotic use contribute to the development of a new flu strain?

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(LFHAMILTON) writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(APMODELER) writes: As far as the nominal subject of the emergence of a new flu strain, I didn’t think anyone was attributing that to human drug use (I thought it was basically a given that flus arise in that area of the world due to close proximity of dense populations and animals), but I suppose that _theoretically_ it’s possible that if the poultry birds in SE Asia are being dosed with antibiotics that might account for it. But, isn’t the "bird flu" viral, like other flus?  How then would antibiotic use contribute to the development of a new flu strain?

   It wouldn’t.  The flu is a virus.  Antibiotic use anywhere is totally and completely irrelevent to what happens with new strains, mutations, etc, etc.  This is nothing you can blame on medications or medical care.      New strains of flu generally arise by recombination of various strains of flu virus in birds and pigs, which it also infects besides people.  For obvious reasons, such strains generally come from Asia, where birds (ducks, etc), pigs, and people live in close proximity. For example, an infected duck or chicken defecates in a rice paddy, an infected pig roots around in there, and ends up living in the back yard of some peasant family, where the hybrid virus is passed on.  Bingo, next world epidemic.                                    Steve Harris, M.D.

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It may not be "scientifically proven" that the prolonged use of antibiotics weakens the immune system, but it makes infinite common sense,

If "common sense" were really that common, we wouldn’t even have a name for it.  In any case, since when are ideas like "antibiotics" and "the immune system" something that you’d come up with using common sense?  (I also hate it when ignorant people start tossing around the word "infinite," since they are qualified to use the term, but that’s my math background.) which is what is supposed to separate us from inanimate objects, including the ultra-logical scientific method.  Science is linear, whereas knowledge is not, and one must remember that science is only one organization of the available information.

Yeah, but it’s also a very successful one, so let’s not be quite so cavalier about dismissing it, shall we?  Do you know enough about it to make these sweeping statements?  It’s common sense that you don’t.    If one removes the need for a strong immune system, the system no longer has any evolutionary pressure to be ready for all comers.  This must, ultimately, result in the loss of potential in the system.

Ah, yet another person who doesn’t know anything much about evolution but is ready to try to haul it into the discussion. The body is under constant assault from microorganisms, including lots of them that are unaffected by antibiotics, and in any case, antibiotics are just an assist — the immune system still has to work, and work well. Antibiotics serve their purpose, but the manner in which they are currently used will inevitably result in loss of immune-response potential in humans, whether the scientific literature "proves" it or not.  The argument is logical, not scientific.

Your argument is neither — you’re just making some misguided assertions.  In a thousand generations, maybe antibiotic use would have some effect on the human immune system.  The idea that it’ll have any effect in the short term is idiotic.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(APMODELER) writes: As far as the nominal subject of the emergence of a new flu strain, I didn’t think anyone was attributing that to human drug use (I thought it was basically a given that flus arise in that area of the world due to close proximity of dense populations and animals), but I suppose that _theoretically_ it’s possible that if the poultry birds in SE Asia are being dosed with antibiotics that might account for it. But, isn’t the "bird flu" viral, like other flus?  How then would antibiotic use contribute to the development of a new flu strain?

It wouldn’t – the Hong Kong bird flu is another great example of emerging diseases among susceptible populations

Response:

I believe perhaps you have misunderstood what you have posted. Antibiotics are not "bad" for the immune system; the problem is the overuse of antibiotics for any and everything, which gives the bugs a chance to develop resistance to them.  They become "superbugs" which cannot be treated with the customary antibiotics because the bugs are immune to them.  And this is, indeed, a BIG problem today. Nancy — Nancy

Response:

Actually there is a LOT of research in this area, here are a few one may find at the local library or on the internet: 1.McCue JD. Antibiotic resistance: Why is it                          increasing in nursing homes? Geriatrics                          1997;52:34-43. A paragraph says::                     "The precribing                     of antibiotics for patients who have no fever or other                     signs or symptoms of infection must stop. The                     inappropriate use of antibiotics, as well as                     administration of agents of inadequate duration or                     strength, can lead to an increased incidence of                     resistance."

<snip It is certainly true that inappropriate use of antibiotics has led to serious problems of resistance.  However, as your above quote mentions, inappropriate use also includes using antibiotics that are not of sufficient strength and not using them for long enough. Antibiotics have to be prescribed more responsibly by doctors.  However, it should be made clear to the patient that once the course of antibiotics is started, it should always be completed.  Too often patients begin to feel better and decide that no more antibiotics are required.  This type of partial treatment of bacterial infections is a major factor in the development of antibiotic resistance.

Response:

Just like most prescription drugs, using antibiotics for long period of time weakens immune system in humans and animals.

about antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria.  Um, Walter, resistance to antibiotics in _bacteria_ has nothing to do with "weakened immune systems" in _humans and animals_.  If you want to make the statement that "misuse of antibiotics causes an increase in resistant bacteria", no one will fault you. In fact, you can find a lot of support in conventional medical journals. However, if you write that "antibiotics cause weakened immune systems", you are just blowing smoke.  These are two different concepts.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(JXBrown) writes: Just like most prescription drugs, using antibiotics for long period of time weakens immune system in humans and animals. references about antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria.  Um, Walter, resistance to antibiotics in _bacteria_ has nothing to do with "weakened immune systems" in _humans and animals_.  If you want to make the statement that "misuse of antibiotics causes an increase in resistant bacteria", no one will fault you. In fact, you can find a lot of support in conventional medical journals. However, if you write that "antibiotics cause weakened immune systems", you are just blowing smoke.  These are two different concepts.

Except for just one case, which should always be kept in mind:  Your gut flora are a part of your defense against foreign bugs, if not strictly a part of your "immune system" (semantic point, there).  If you are taking an antibiotic, this causes you to be selectively susceptable to organisms which infect through the gut, such as E. Coli, which happen to be resistant to that antibiotic.  This, due to the fact that you’re providing a selective pressure to help them in their competition with your other gut organisms. I don’t know of any other case where this happens, but it’s a theoretic possibility for vaginal and superficial skin infections (impetigo) also, I suppose.  Any place where you’re partly protected by your own flora.  It would not hold for (say) lung infections.  But might for sinus, etc. It’s not a weakening of the immune system by the antibiotic, but it has the same effect.  And of course, it only lasts for as long as the antibiotic is taken, so it’s not a LASTING effect, as the alternatives have it.  And, finally, it requires an attacking organism which has the right antibiotic resistant genes.                                        Steve

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Feh.  You don’t know what I believe, Tom, so don’t go putting words in my mouth.  All I said was that I’d never heard that antibiotics are bad for the immune system. Now, would you care to back up your blanket assertion, or do you insist that I blindly believe what you say simply because it’s you who’s saying it? Just like most prescription drugs, using antibiotics for long period of time weakens immune system in humans and animals. I don’t have medical reoprts regarding this situation on hand, but it makes sense that antibiotics are bad. Maybe in some circumstances they are needed, but even that they should not be used for too long period of time. Tom Goodman Mark 1:15  And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Using them for too short a time is our current problem. —

Response:

If you want to make the statement that "misuse of

antibiotics causes an increase in resistant bacteria", no one will fault you. In fact, you can find a lot of support in conventional medical journals. However, if you write that "antibiotics cause weakened immune systems", you are just blowing smoke.  These are two different concepts.<< As far as the nominal subject of the emergence of a new flu strain, I didn’t think anyone was attributing that to human drug use (I thought it was basically a given that flus arise in that area of the world due to close proximity of dense populations and animals), but I suppose that _theoretically_ it’s possible that if the poultry birds in SE Asia are being dosed with antibiotics that might account for it. From a semantic point of view, I would argue that _weakness_ is only meaningful as a relative term, and has no absolute definition in medicine or any other field.    Thus an increase in resistent bacteria and other _new_ pathogens that people succumb to _is_ relative weakness.    Excuse me if this is too practical a concept for the scientific brain. It is a _myth_ that the immune system is independent of the _person_ and their total environment.    Empirical evidence (my own as a Licensed practitioner of TCM) suggests that persons with long history of medical drug use (antibiotics and others) tend to have greater susceptibility to contagion, lower health in general, and far more intractable problems than people who have chosen to emphasise care in lifestyle, diet, etc.  . . . Duh, that’s why they were taking the drugs ! . . .     To my knowledge there’s no way a correlation with immunity can be established other than by association with bowel dysfunction (dysbiosis) which clearly does follow many drug regimens.    But then I’m neither internist nor scientist so you’re free to knock yourself out with rebuttal.    But don’t try so hard you spoil your holidays  - I’ll be off skiing or something.    Peace. Joe Reid, O.M.D.

Response:

Feh.  You don’t know what I believe, Tom, so don’t go putting words in my mouth.  All I said was that I’d never heard that antibiotics are bad for the immune system. Now, would you care to back up your blanket assertion, or do you insist that I blindly believe what you say simply because it’s you who’s saying it?

Just like most prescription drugs, using antibiotics for long period of time weakens immune system in humans and animals. I don’t have medical reoprts regarding this situation on hand, but it makes sense that antibiotics are bad. Maybe in some circumstances they are needed, but even that they should not be used for too long period of time. Tom Goodman Mark 1:15  And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Response:

Just like most prescription drugs, using antibiotics for long period of time weakens immune system in humans and animals.

LOL. Any proof of that? Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) Bah Humbug

Response:

Just like most prescription drugs, using antibiotics for long period of time weakens immune system in humans and animals. I don’t have medical reoprts regarding this situation on hand, but it makes sense that antibiotics are bad. Maybe in some circumstances they are needed, but even that they should not be used for too long period of time.

Actually there is a LOT of research in this area, here are a few one may find at the local library or on the internet: 1.McCue JD. Antibiotic resistance: Why is it                           increasing in nursing homes? Geriatrics                           1997;52:34-43. A paragraph says::                      "The precribing                      of antibiotics for patients who have no fever or other                      signs or symptoms of infection must stop. The                      inappropriate use of antibiotics, as well as                      administration of agents of inadequate duration or                      strength, can lead to an increased incidence of                      resistance." Several articles may be found at the Scientific American site http://www.sciam.com/explorations/072197bacteria/mirsky.html Here are a few: "Could antibacterial soaps lead to resistant strains?" "Why is it only recently that antibiotic-resistant bacteria have become the focus of alarm?" from Scientific American’s  Ask the Experts  "Shaking the Ebola Tree", by Gunjan Sinha and Corey S.  Powell; Scientific American Exploration, August 26, 1996                                                          Links from that page:                 Outbreak, a compendium of the latest information on                 emerging diseases                 Society of Infectious Diseases Pharmacists Home Page                 "Bacteria Blasters", news story from the American Chemical                 Society                 Antibiotic Resistance References from Harvey Mudd College From The New England Med Journal we have" Antibiotic Overuse                                                          September 30, 1997                       " Most people are aware that growing                        bacterial resistance to antibiotics makes                        it essential that they be prescribed only                        when absolutely necessary. But knowing when                        to see your doctor for an infection that                        could be treated with antibiotics can be                        tricky