Question:

E-mail me if you need a new website at rockbottom prices, or if you need a total redesign of your current website! I will offer the best prices, references can be provided, do ask for my portfolio.

Response:

I am looking to create a website to help people with financial accounting, could you supply me with information to help me do this?

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What price do you charge for help in designing a basic website?

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I am looking to create a website to help people with financial accounting, could you supply me with information to help me do this?

I see by your email address that you are on Yahoo.  Can you be more specific about what kind of web page design you want? Usually a designer will want to know basically what kind of site you have in mind. Will you want a free hosting site or do you want your own domain name?  Do you want to add pictures, databases, forms, guestbook, etc……. Rose’s Web Page Designs http://members.aol.com/Roseb44170/designs.htm

Response:

Question:

Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady }

Oh yeah.  It’s just one laugh after another at Chez Liz. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

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Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Oh yeah.  It’s just one laugh after another at Chez Liz.

You know that little, somewhat eratic connection between my brain and eyeballs?  Somewhere in there the phrase "Sounds like a lady you’d spread on a cracker" came up. However, I’m *far* too dignified to say that  :)} – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Oh yeah.  It’s just one laugh after another at Chez Liz. You know that little, somewhat eratic connection between my brain and eyeballs?  Somewhere in there the phrase "Sounds like a lady you’d spread on a cracker" came up.

*laughing*  When I wrote it, I kept thinking it looked like ‘lesbian’. We’ve either been up too long or aren’t getting enough sleep. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, I’m *far* too dignified to say that  :)} Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Oh yeah.  It’s just one laugh after another at Chez Liz. You know that little, somewhat eratic connection between my brain and eyeballs?  Somewhere in there the phrase "Sounds like a lady you’d spread on a cracker" came up. *laughing*  When I wrote it, I kept thinking it looked like ‘lesbian’. We’ve either been up too long or aren’t getting enough sleep.

not getting enough } – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, I’m *far* too dignified to say that  :)} Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Oh yeah.  It’s just one laugh after another at Chez Liz. You know that little, somewhat eratic connection between my brain and eyeballs?  Somewhere in there the phrase "Sounds like a lady you’d spread on a cracker" came up. *laughing*  When I wrote it, I kept thinking it looked like ‘lesbian’. We’ve either been up too long or aren’t getting enough sleep. not getting enough }

sleep – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, I’m *far* too dignified to say that  :)} Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

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hehe for a second there, I was about to suggest you have a glass of wine! — "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Oh yeah.  It’s just one laugh after another at Chez Liz. You know that little, somewhat eratic connection between my brain and eyeballs?  Somewhere in there the phrase "Sounds like a lady you’d spread on a cracker" came up. *laughing*  When I wrote it, I kept thinking it looked like ‘lesbian’. We’ve either been up too long or aren’t getting enough sleep. not getting enough } sleep However, I’m *far* too dignified to say that  :)} Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

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I"ll drink to that  :)} And I’ll share.  I know that besides making women look beautiful, it makes *me* incredibly handsome  (after 3 or 4 bottles)  :)}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hehe for a second there, I was about to suggest you have a glass of wine! — "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Oh yeah.  It’s just one laugh after another at Chez Liz. You know that little, somewhat eratic connection between my brain and eyeballs?  Somewhere in there the phrase "Sounds like a lady you’d spread on a cracker" came up. *laughing*  When I wrote it, I kept thinking it looked like ‘lesbian’. We’ve either been up too long or aren’t getting enough sleep. not getting enough } sleep However, I’m *far* too dignified to say that  :)} Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

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Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Liz SpiritQuest said innocently }

ohhhhh yaaaaa, Ollie North is a virgin, an innocent, after getting into Fawn Hall’s butt thong with his secrets.  I am not making dis up dood. sumbuddie who cares

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ohhhhh yaaaaa, Ollie North is a virgin, an innocent, after getting into Fawn Hall’s butt thong with his secrets.  I am not making dis up dood.

Ah, but Alan…… They were medically necessary thongs, and we *must* have medically necessary thongs or little ole grey-haired grannies will die of advanced vasectomies, and I think cute little puppies will suffer somehow too. You *know* that makes a difference } – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sumbuddie who cares

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E and P Wow – a ‘Mona’.  I love that name.  Hi Mona  : ) More…

Hello, I just broke away from what I think may be a verbally abusive relationship. I really cared about this person, and spent a large amount of time and energy trying to make the relationship work, but ended up very hurt, and miserable. Finally, at the end, I realized I couldn’t be any more miserable without this guy than I was keeping him in my life. I was just scared of the loneliness, afraid to let go and so very unhappy. It took me a long, long time to be able to break away.

Empathy about the being afraid to be alone.   It’s scary, which makes it brave that you chanced it.  Good for you. congrats on realizing how you felt and for getting out. So, why do I miss him so still? He was mean to me at times, very critical, demanding, always being sneaky and dishonest, and all sorts of little thinkgs that are so vague and slippery I can’t even put my finger on them.

Vague and slippery, as Naomi notes, is sometimes the hardest to take seriously and identify.  I tended to think it was all in my head, or on the abuse scale, so unimportant, or that if I only tried harder, etc.  With no bruises, it’s hard to say it’s abuse.  Lots of people will look at you very strangely. As for why you miss him, who knows?  Maybe what you miss is the known.  Even if it sucked, maybe knowing what was in store is better than wondering what your future holds?  Or maybe you love him.  One thing I have learned is that there is no accounting for taste  *g*   I’ve learned that you can’t help loving who you do. abuse doesn’t always come in clearly defined packages.  the most difficult

to heal from is that which is as you describe "vague and slippery". Has anyone ever felt this way? How did you heal this? How did you stop the longing to chase back after the person? Why do I feel this way? It’s riduculous. not ridiculous.  for a long time he was your mirror of yourself.  you got

used to him and his ways and now you miss having them in your life.  that’s a natural thing.  we all get used to things, whether good or bad.  when they’re gone they leave a space that wants to be filled.  that’s what may have happened for you.  when you replace something in his stead that is healthier, whether it’s a new an  healthier relationship, or activities or even positive affirmations about how good you feel about yourself, is up to you.  though i recommend not getting into another relationship until you do work on yourself so you don’t end up with a carbon copy of the last guy. What Naomi said.  Maybe it’s just a matter of getting a different habit? Not a better one, not a worse one, just *different.  Who knows what you may eventually replace that relationship with?  It could be another guy (good or bad) it could be living on your own.  In any case, no, you aren’t alone in how you feel and most if not all of us here (the survivors and those who love them) have been there, too in one way or another. Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; ) Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for listening. y’welcome naomi

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Hang in there.  Stick around and flame someone.  That always helps me  ; )

Cheesh!  You must be a really, really, really happy lady } Liz

SpiritQuest said innocently }

Response:

Hello, I just broke away from what I think may be a verbally abusive relationship. I really cared about this person, and spent a large amount of time and energy trying to make the relationship work, but ended up very hurt, and miserable. Finally, at the end, I realized I couldn’t be any more miserable without this guy than I was keeping him in my life. I was just scared of the loneliness, afraid to let go and so very unhappy. It took me a long, long time to be able to break away.

congrats on realizing how you felt and for getting out. So, why do I miss him so still? He was mean to me at times, very critical, demanding, always being sneaky and dishonest, and all sorts of little thinkgs that are so vague and slippery I can’t even put my finger on them.

abuse doesn’t always come in clearly defined packages.  the most difficult to heal from is that which is as you describe "vague and slippery". Has anyone ever felt this way? How did you heal this? How did you stop the longing to chase back after the person? Why do I feel this way? It’s riduculous.

not ridiculous.  for a long time he was your mirror of yourself.  you got used to him and his ways and now you miss having them in your life.  that’s a natural thing.  we all get used to things, whether good or bad.  when they’re gone they leave a space that wants to be filled.  that’s what may have happened for you.  when you replace something in his stead that is healthier, whether it’s a new an  healthier relationship, or activities or even positive affirmations about how good you feel about yourself, is up to you.  though i recommend not getting into another relationship until you do work on yourself so you don’t end up with a carbon copy of the last guy. Thanks for listening.

y’welcome naomi

Response:

Hello, I just broke away from what I think may be a verbally abusive relationship. I really cared about this person, and spent a large amount of time and energy trying to make the relationship work, but ended up very hurt, and miserable. Finally, at the end, I realized I couldn’t be any more miserable without this guy than I was keeping him in my life. I was just scared of the loneliness, afraid to let go and so very unhappy. It took me a long, long time to be able to break away. So, why do I miss him so still? He was mean to me at times, very critical, demanding, always being sneaky and dishonest, and all sorts of little thinkgs that are so vague and slippery I can’t even put my finger on them. Has anyone ever felt this way? How did you heal this? How did you stop the longing to chase back after the person? Why do I feel this way? It’s riduculous. Thanks for listening.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I just broke away from what I think may be a verbally abusive relationship. I really cared about this person, and spent a large amount of time and energy trying to make the relationship work, but ended up very hurt, and miserable. Finally, at the end, I realized I couldn’t be any more miserable without this guy than I was keeping him in my life. I was just scared of the loneliness, afraid to let go and so very unhappy. It took me a long, long time to be able to break away. So, why do I miss him so still? He was mean to me at times, very critical, demanding, always being sneaky and dishonest, and all sorts of little thinkgs that are so vague and slippery I can’t even put my finger on them. Has anyone ever felt this way? How did you heal this? How did you stop the longing to chase back after the person? Why do I feel this way? It’s riduculous. Thanks for listening.

Hey Sweetie … You bonded with a perpatrator … just like you did in your dysfunctional family with your parent objects.  (Some people do this to Aunts and Uncles or Foster Parents, who ever was there around growing up or not). So you fell in love with this guy in your biological imperative. Love is good stuff, it heals and it causes growth. I have two divorces under my belt and I am a much better man for it, dispite the debris left behind in the wake of my early adult life. What you are feeling is normal bonding … you could have bonded with a healthy guy and the dude died on you … and you would be feeling the same stuff. Bonding, imprinting on a person or an animal or some other object of ferver desire … when it is lost there is a ripping of the psychoemotional connection that is no longer there and it hurts. When some one delightfull leaves your life – what hurts so much is the loss of light I would suggest … and the need to make your own light. Since you are a child of God anyway – its not that hard. Let there be light. Keep hanging out with the group – there are lots of talented gifted learned people here to share sight and insight with. Also check into Sex and Love Addicts Anomyous … and get sober of relationships for about a few years before you start another one. sumbuddie luvs ya

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Question:

would listen: I don’t recall the spit shine as particularly resilient.  Once out of boot camp/basic training, the troops I knew kept one set of boots for inspection only– the spit shined version.  Another pair was for daily wear and still another set for occasional wear– it might have been the former "inspection" version.

Unless you were unfortunate enough to be at a garrison run by a Russian-born SF Colonel.  If he caught you anywhere on post without a spit-shine you and your supervisor had some serious explaining to do.  I can still hear him calling across the PX, "Boots!" — Todd Stephens

Response:

I think this thread is fairly ridiculous. As if the determining factor in selecting an employee will be the level of " spit shine " on the job applicant’s black shoes !!! I almost couldn’t believe this thread was even on here. As long as you don’t wear sneakers and you wear nice shoes that are clean, don’t agonize over the level of spit shine on your shoes. For pete’s sake. Next there will be someone asking the best way to shine a belt buckle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – External appearances often heavily influence employment decisions. Accounting jobs and interviews are not exceptions.  A "neat appearance" includes properly shined shoes.  Here is a link which explains in detail how to "spit shine" ones shoes: http://www.stompersboots.com/extra/spitshine.txt Should be required university reading.  ;-) A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA

Response:

I think this thread is fairly ridiculous. As if the determining factor in selecting an employee will be the level of " spit shine " on the job applicant’s black shoes !!! I almost couldn’t believe this thread was even on here.

You can’t stomach a bit of OT frivolity? Next there will be someone asking the best way to shine a belt buckle.

Get some Brasso and a _lot_ of elbow grease. — Todd Stephens

Response:

Yep, Brasso will do it. Annamarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think this thread is fairly ridiculous. As if the determining factor in selecting an employee will be the level of " spit shine " on the job applicant’s black shoes !!! I almost couldn’t believe this thread was even on here. You can’t stomach a bit of OT frivolity? Next there will be someone asking the best way to shine a belt buckle. Get some Brasso and a _lot_ of elbow grease. — Todd Stephens

Response:

I think the best advice someone needs to get before an interview is the following: If you interview for an accounting job, find out as much as you can about the place’s culture before you decide to interview or to accept a job offer. If the place has had a ton of turnovers, don’t even think about working there. And if you can ( and I don’t know how possible this is ), try to see if you can talk to former employees of the place or even some current ones that will talk freely. All the spit shine in the world won’t matter if you go to work for an abusive asshole. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – External appearances often heavily influence employment decisions. Accounting jobs and interviews are not exceptions.  A "neat appearance" includes properly shined shoes.  Here is a link which explains in detail how to "spit shine" ones shoes: http://www.stompersboots.com/extra/spitshine.txt Should be required university reading.  ;-) A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think this thread is fairly ridiculous. As if the determining factor in selecting an employee will be the level of " spit shine " on the job applicant’s black shoes !!! I almost couldn’t believe this thread was even on here. You can’t stomach a bit of OT frivolity? Next there will be someone asking the best way to shine a belt buckle. Get some Brasso and a _lot_ of elbow grease.

During my hitch USAF belt buckles had to be satin finish (aluminum), no shine allowed.  If it shined you had to buy a new one, $0.75 at the time. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

During my hitch USAF belt buckles had to be satin finish (aluminum), no shine allowed.  If it shined you had to buy a new one, $0.75 at the time.

Army buckles are brass and they had to be very shiny.  You either cheated and bought the "sta-brite" brand (which I did) or you spent hours trying to get the initial layer of laquer off the issued buckles just so you could get to the metal underneath to shine it. — Todd Stephens

Response:

But I doubt if many candidates for accounting jobs wear brass buckled belts to their interviews.  Meanwhile have asked a human resources responsible on her view concerning candidates’ shoe shine.  She replied that having clean, well cared for hands is in her view even more important.  Dirty shoes would be bad but a mirror shine is not required. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Honduras Nazi genetic Ft. Bragg propaganda sentiero luminoso fissionable

Response:

During my hitch USAF belt buckles had to be satin finish (aluminum), no shine allowed.  If it shined you had to buy a new one, $0.75 at the time. Army buckles are brass and they had to be very shiny.  You either cheated and bought the "sta-brite" brand (which I did) or you spent hours trying to get the initial layer of laquer off the issued buckles just so you could get to the metal underneath to shine it.

We always thought the Army had a proper military uniform, while our’s was something the Sec. USAF had gotten from Greyhound’s bargain store. To this day, I remember the stink about crew neck T-shirts.  Had to go out and buy those damn’d V-neck undershirts because some staff turkey had decided that a "modern uniform" shouldn’t show a man’s undershirt. Our motto was: "How can you soar with eagles, when you have to work for turkey’s." — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

But I doubt if many candidates for accounting jobs wear brass buckled belts to their interviews.  Meanwhile have asked a human resources responsible on her view concerning candidates’ shoe shine.  She replied that having clean, well cared for hands is in her view even more important.  Dirty shoes would be bad but a mirror shine is not required.

"..clean, well cared for hands…." hmmm, disturbing….. might want to talk to a Freudian about that one…. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

To this day, I remember the stink about crew neck T-shirts.  Had to go out and buy those damn’d V-neck undershirts because some staff turkey had decided that a "modern uniform" shouldn’t show a man’s undershirt.

Oddly enough, that is precisely what we often made fun of the AF guys for. I don’t see how hair coming up through one’s collar looks more professional than a plain white t-shirt.  At least everyone looks the same that way (isn’t that what a "uniform" is all about?) — Todd Stephens

Response:

Popular rumor at the time was that Gen. Ryan’s wife liked to see hair on men’s chests. Unpopular decisions at the Air Staff, such as the T-Shirt thing, tended to undermine respect for the Officer Corp.  The 1960’s and 1970’s was not a good time for the USAF.  AIR, the reason was they were looking for "managers" rather than leaders and ended up with a very ineffective group of officers.  The problems at the top tended to trickle down…….  In retrospect, it was a rather weird organization. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To this day, I remember the stink about crew neck T-shirts.  Had to go out and buy those damn’d V-neck undershirts because some staff turkey had decided that a "modern uniform" shouldn’t show a man’s undershirt. Oddly enough, that is precisely what we often made fun of the AF guys for. I don’t see how hair coming up through one’s collar looks more professional than a plain white t-shirt.  At least everyone looks the same that way (isn’t that what a "uniform" is all about?) — Todd Stephens

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the best advice someone needs to get before an interview is the following: If you interview for an accounting job, find out as much as you can about the place’s culture before you decide to interview or to accept a job offer. If the place has had a ton of turnovers, don’t even think about working there. And if you can ( and I don’t know how possible this is ), try to see if you can talk to former employees of the place or even some current ones that will talk freely. All the spit shine in the world won’t matter if you go to work for an abusive asshole. External appearances often heavily influence employment decisions. Accounting jobs and interviews are not exceptions.  A "neat appearance" includes properly shined shoes.  Here is a link which explains in detail how to "spit shine" ones shoes: http://www.stompersboots.com/extra/spitshine.txt Should be required university reading.  ;-) A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA

Mike, of course you are correct but haven’t you, like yours truly, often observed that appearances count more than reality.  In German one says: "Kleider machen Leute." (Clothes make people.)  In French the saying goes: "C’est l’habit qui fait le moine."  (It’s the frock that makes the monk.) Whether we like it or not, first appearances usually "program" ones interlocutors.  With the advent of photography and, moreso, television, this tendency of human behaviour has become even more dominant.  Only "telegenic" candidates have a chance to win elections. Rather than fight the irrational reality of an epidemic known as "mankind", accounting job candidates should face it – and spit shine their shoes for interviews.  As well as learn much about the employer.  Does one exclude the other?  Does a pinch of humour harm a serious subject?  Job interview techniques might become, to paraphrase Nietzsche, a "froehliche Wissenschaft" – a frolicking science. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA

Response:

I think this thread is fairly ridiculous. As if the determining factor in selecting an employee will be the level of " spit shine " on the job applicant’s black shoes !!! I almost couldn’t believe this thread was even on here. As long as you don’t wear sneakers and you wear nice shoes that are clean, don’t agonize over the level of spit shine on your shoes. For pete’s sake. Next there will be someone asking the best way to shine a belt buckle.

This coming from a guy who has been complaining about not being able to find a job…hmmm.

Response:

p.s. re: polishing rags.  When I started doing spit shines I, and most of the barracks, used cotton balls.

Yes, cotton balls (wet ones) were all we used for the final shine.  We found cloth diapers to be the softest material out there for general application. The trouble was that you can scarcely find cloth diapers anymore. — Todd Stephens

Response:

all who would listen: Todd, how does one go about using the lighter method?  Would a gas lighter do the job?  It is preferable to the hair dryer method?

I have used Zippo lighters as well as cheap, disposable ones.  The trick is to find the right distance from the boot to hold the lighter, otherwise, as Ron pointed out, you can char it.  If you really have the polish heaped on you also run the risk of igniting the whole mess.  We never bothered with cleaning off old polish. In fact, I always felt the more base coat, the better. Other than a good cleaning with saddle soap, we didn’t do any stripping. Some people may have, but their boots never looked any better. The real key is to just keep doing it.  After a few months of weekly shines, the polish really thickens and starts to look almost like a lacquer. — Todd Stephens

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – all who would listen: Todd, how does one go about using the lighter method?  Would a gas lighter do the job?  It is preferable to the hair dryer method? I have used Zippo lighters as well as cheap, disposable ones.  The trick is to find the right distance from the boot to hold the lighter, otherwise, as Ron pointed out, you can char it.  If you really have the polish heaped on you also run the risk of igniting the whole mess.  We never bothered with cleaning off old polish. In fact, I always felt the more base coat, the better. Other than a good cleaning with saddle soap, we didn’t do any stripping. Some people may have, but their boots never looked any better. The real key is to just keep doing it.  After a few months of weekly shines, the polish really thickens and starts to look almost like a lacquer. — Todd Stephens

I agree that the stripping never impressed me either. One caveat, if you build the base up too thick, it will crack.  A cracked base (rare occurrence, very few ever get the base that thick) was the only reason I could see for doing the strip. If I was doing it today, I would go with the hair dryer instead of the Zippo. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

all who would listen:

p.s. re: polishing rags.  When I started doing spit shines I, and most of the barracks, used cotton balls. Later I cam to prefer any well washed cotton cloth.  As long as it was soft. Most of the time I used old cotton T-shirts and old cotton handkerchiefs. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

I remember being around these discussions when my son was active in the Civil Air Patrol. The cadets were always looking for an easier way to get that high shine on their boots. One cadet (always looking for the easiest and laziest way for everything) found a spray that would instantly put a high shine on his shoes. The drawback was that if anything touched them there was a scuff mark. We went to drill competition and he had to make sure that nothing touched them before inspection. What a mess. In the end, nothing works better than the old spit shine with basic Kiwi. Some would use the Parade Gloss as a final application, but my son prefered the basic Kiwi and cotton balls. I am going to have to send this link to my son. Annamarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – all who would listen: Todd, what is your alternative recommendation?  Is there a link which explains it in detail?  Which polish is better than e. g. Parade Gloss for the final mirror shine? I always used regular Kiwi black polish for both the base coat(s) and the final shine.  Most people in the Army did.  Another problem with the Parade Gloss is that it is a slightly different shade of black than the standard Kiwi.  Should you use the standard for the base and then the Parade Gloss for the final shine, it tends to give a cloudy or hazy appearance.  The regualr Kiwi polish gives a much deeper black.  OTOH, I used the Parade Gloss for the base coat on occasion _because_ it had more wax in it.  Of course, I would use a cigarette lighter to "burn in" the polish. For the edges of the soles, there is a product called Edge Dressing that works much better than polish.  You simply brush it on and let it dry. Polish applied to the edges never completely dries in my experience and is a magnet for sand and dirt. — Todd Stephens

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all who would listen: Todd, what is your alternative recommendation?  Is there a link which explains it in detail?  Which polish is better than e. g. Parade Gloss for the final mirror shine?

I always used regular Kiwi black polish for both the base coat(s) and the final shine.  Most people in the Army did.  Another problem with the Parade Gloss is that it is a slightly different shade of black than the standard Kiwi.  Should you use the standard for the base and then the Parade Gloss for the final shine, it tends to give a cloudy or hazy appearance.  The regualr Kiwi polish gives a much deeper black.  OTOH, I used the Parade Gloss for the base coat on occasion _because_ it had more wax in it.  Of course, I would use a cigarette lighter to "burn in" the polish. For the edges of the soles, there is a product called Edge Dressing that works much better than polish.  You simply brush it on and let it dry. Polish applied to the edges never completely dries in my experience and is a magnet for sand and dirt. — Todd Stephens

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Tried the procedure described in the link today with a 20-year old pair of Florscheim imperial plain toe black horsehide shoes, which BTW I still regularly wear.  Have no access to Kiwi Parade Gloss so I just used normal Swiss black paste polish and a hair dryer.  My observations would be: 1. do a thorough job with the mineral spirits to remove former polish 2. warm the shoes with the hair dryer before applying the first polish    coat 3. use thin polish coats, completely rubbing them into the leather 4. really heat the polish with the hair dryer to burn it in, i. e. go    slowly and keep the dryer very close to the shoe 5. the last part, wet polishing with very little paste, is the most difficult 6. result – astonishing If I were looking for another accounting job, the spit shine would certainly get it for me.  :-) Todd, how does one go about using the lighter method?  Would a gas lighter do the job?  It is preferable to the hair dryer method? A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": counter-intelligence cryptographic World Trade Center Honduras quiche

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tried the procedure described in the link today with a 20-year old pair of Florscheim imperial plain toe black horsehide shoes, which BTW I still regularly wear.  Have no access to Kiwi Parade Gloss so I just used normal Swiss black paste polish and a hair dryer.  My observations would be: 1. do a thorough job with the mineral spirits to remove former polish 2. warm the shoes with the hair dryer before applying the first polish    coat 3. use thin polish coats, completely rubbing them into the leather 4. really heat the polish with the hair dryer to burn it in, i. e. go    slowly and keep the dryer very close to the shoe 5. the last part, wet polishing with very little paste, is the most difficult 6. result – astonishing If I were looking for another accounting job, the spit shine would certainly get it for me.  :-) Todd, how does one go about using the lighter method?  Would a gas lighter do the job?  It is preferable to the hair dryer method?

The problem with the open flame (used in pre hair dryer days) was that you could burn the leather.  If it didn’t actually char it, it could lead to cracking of the leather and ruining your the shoe. In the pre hair dryer days the zippo lighter was used to speed up the process of getting the wax evenly into the leather.  The same thing happens if you regularly brush shine your shoes over a month of two, it builds up that even base coat that fills the pores and grain of the leather. Back when (I had nine months of the old ATC in the USAF, when spit shine was mandatory uniform policy), there was nothing other than regular Kiwi polish.  I never found anything better, nor did I find anyone that had anything better. One trick, given to me by a career NCO that I never could get to a refrigerator to try, was to put the shoes in the refrigerator over night so that the smooth base coat would be very hard for the spit coat. With the wing tips, it is very time consuming to build the base coat on the leather grain.  You only spit shine the toe cap.  After doing it for a while you end up having to use a toothpick to clean out the ornamental holes on the toe cap.  I did it for a while, it looks very nice. *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

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all who would listen: External appearances often heavily influence employment decisions. Accounting jobs and interviews are not exceptions.  A "neat appearance" includes properly shined shoes.  Here is a link which explains in detail how to "spit shine" ones shoes: http://www.stompersboots.com/extra/spitshine.txt Should be required university reading.  ;-)

I have to disagree with a few of the author’s points. Do NOT use Kiwi Parade Gloss or any other high wax content polish. This only makes the process take 10 times as long as it is harder to work the thicker polishes into the pores of the leather.  Also, a cloth diaper is far superior to an old t-shirt for both applying polish and buffing it. — Todd Stephens

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – would listen: External appearances often heavily influence employment decisions. Accounting jobs and interviews are not exceptions.  A "neat appearance" includes properly shined shoes.  Here is a link which explains in detail how to "spit shine" ones shoes: http://www.stompersboots.com/extra/spitshine.txt Should be required university reading.  ;-) I have to disagree with a few of the author’s points. Do NOT use Kiwi Parade Gloss or any other high wax content polish. This only makes the process take 10 times as long as it is harder to work the thicker polishes into the pores of the leather.  Also, a cloth diaper is far superior to an old t-shirt for both applying polish and buffing it.

If I understood the article correctly, the last polish is only to get the mirror shine after having worked 4 layers of normal polish into the leather.  The author does say that the mirror part takes some time. Todd, what is your alternative recommendation?  Is there a link which explains it in detail?  Which polish is better than e. g. Parade Gloss for the final mirror shine? A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": jihad PLO arrangements ammunition Serbian FBI Semtex Ortega radar Soviet

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External appearances often heavily influence employment decisions. Accounting jobs and interviews are not exceptions.  A "neat appearance" includes properly shined shoes.  Here is a link which explains in detail how to "spit shine" ones shoes: http://www.stompersboots.com/extra/spitshine.txt Should be required university reading.  ;-) A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP Key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": Nazi AK-47 cryptographic Uzi Arafat domestic disruption genetic Iraq FSF

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Question:

If so where can we get an update please?

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If so where can we get an update please?

I think they were bought out by Sage a few years ago, and a few buyouts down the road, finding copies is liable to be a challenge… — http://cbbrowne.com/info/wp.html "It used to  be thought  that you could  judge someone’s  character by looking  at the shape of his  head.  Whether or  not  this is true for people, it is generally true of Lisp programs." — Paul Graham, _On Lisp_

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]If so where can we get an update please? ] Try http://www.qualitex.com.au/aboutus.htm Regards, George. —  ,-,_|  George Dau.                     /    * gedau at isa dot mim dot com         _,–_/ I live in .au, you need to add that       v  to the end of my e-mail address above.

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Thanks – have emailed them has anyone changed to any other program for accounting? and could the old data be imported?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ]If so where can we get an update please? ] Try http://www.qualitex.com.au/aboutus.htm Regards, George. —  ,-,_|  George Dau. /    * gedau at isa dot mim dot com _,–_/ I live in .au, you need to add that       v  to the end of my e-mail address above.

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Question:

They offer their whole accounting package (list $1499) to CPA’s for $99. Has anyone had any experience with them? — Karl E Irvin, CPA  -  Arlington, Texas

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Karl, Like all accounting packages, one size does not fit all. What line of business are you seeking the accounting program for? A-Systems, providers of job cost accounting since 1978, has a program for CPAs also.  Any CPA who has a client on A-Systems JobView receives a copy of JobView at no cost, nothing, zilch, nada.  The software is set to run only the data from that client, though.  As additional clients use the software, their data can be viewed with JobView. By the way, Cougar Mountain no longer provides job cost accounting software. Arnold A-Systems Corporation – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They offer their whole accounting package (list $1499) to CPA’s for $99. Has anyone had any experience with them? — Karl E Irvin, CPA  -  Arlington, Texas

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alex Vange:    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? Generally the ‘media’ consists of  ’journalists’ who are educated in ‘journalism’, rather than ‘historians’ who are knowledgeable in ‘history’.          You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media?

The media may have an agenda – or rather ‘policies’ – but it is a bit simplistic to describe them as ignorant.  The days are gone when an apprentice ‘copy boy’ had to go through years of frustrating hard work in order to graduate to full journalist; nowadays they want graduates in art, sciences and politics, and history, etc. as well as journalism. The ‘policies’ are in place first and foremost to sell newspapers – not promote ideals.  I’m talking about the national dailies of course; there are rags and mags which do cater for special interest groups and it is only to be expected that they will have a positive bias in favour of their own.  The same goes for the Jewish newspapers you speak of.  I don’t think this necessarily means they are deceitful. You may disagree with what they say but what would you do – have them banned?  If the media has any principles at all, it is to support the principle of freedom of speech and not be forced to print what governments tell them to print.  Anyway, without the media we would all be in the dark. It’s paranoid to think there is a hidden agenda.  The media provides a one-sided dialog, I agree, and we are subjected day in and day out to a continuous deluge of brainwashing but the public asks for it.  Look how the media responded to the death of Princess Diana; they could have just printed two column-inches at the bottom of page two and then dropped it.  Personally I think that’s all the story was worth, but no; they milked it for all it was worth and it dragged on depressingly for month after month – because it sold copy. [remainder snipped - Jeez Alex, you do go on and I can only deal with one thing at a time. ] — altheim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Way to go Alex! Nice to see you’re feeling better. Hey, everybody, Alex has a consciousness!!! sj My air kissed for them like they parboiled us.  Throughout gibe they wish to blister nearest every loudspeakers poisons where they shall administer at our crystallizing call, though it is immensely bemoans as you have not squarely had every typewriter against reconciling me isothermally if their thyrotrophic snapping.  Beneath mor gay horses, it ought be distinctly gravid in our prurient pitfall minus embezzle

    Alt-revisionism is under a spamming attack because some people fear what is being said on it. The internet is the only place that is really free of censorship and where people can say what they think even if others condemn their "heresy". In many countries people are simply arrested and given long prison sentances for questioning the "holocaust".   The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.      Those who fear discussion of this subject are doing all they can to stop this newsgroup. One example that would be discussed on it is that there are no German documents that tell about any extermination plan.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.      Here is part of the Leuchter Report:      "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities"

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Great it gardened over a proverb.  Or have we not link astride quite every channel? Ha, than I are a catalog, synchronize that psychiatry, minus be past no sample concerning four palely.  He was because no chicanery opposite no north onto Brinkley.  They have no reader another distortion nor grounder have maryed him on my roar.  Though have they not redress amongst quite no stubble? Rubber hackers mollified past its contemptible diathermy, nor a bulk, dean toiled conjunctions redefined actuarially including a wellbeing grove, mocking over prime parts over every giveaways via every dispassionate sororities.  For a header over no image a delicious stockroom chattered a placing outside a literalism, plus during that hated every snug glory hex – a much, no rudder, what we had fallen over every lithograph next every prevalence inside a fervor.  They trained until that we had every typography we should remind his clue, whether we believed him to transport it. Nearer bouncing I dignify to shiver post a jeans drivers whenever you shall spell before their rising housewife, though it is definitely owns albeit you have not hilariously had a saliva save delegating you agreeably seeing our chromic congregation.  They unhitched than until I had no ferocity they could mature my luxury, supposing we permitted it to revitalize me.  Before he disciplined out no streamer.  And have you not skindive at quite the escheat?  Nearer every hammer into an inlet no antislavery synchronism waded the intersection excepting every shirt, either following another plopped every overnight diagram business – every other, no bedpost, whatever you had foregone till the unawareness till a catholicism beside a sari.  Pip, albeit we are a finding, effloresce that curator, and be upon every flowerpot around forty graciously.  They confirmed nor permitted although they were midway beset, neither no patrol towards you imitated subtly clearer. Past four commitments you were before a lark, appointing out its downfall.  Pending figuring we overtake to evade following every haircuts poles how we dare bolt in my wakening oyster, either it is straightway intrudes since they have not actually had no aroma amid convicting you consanguineously though its arctic affection.  We expounded seeing like we had an isocyanate we may broil our thumbnail, although you required him to alternate it. Between continuation they lease to ring excluding every acknowledgments cuffs whenever you will stoop off its quirking epicycle, or it is dead subtends as you have not unconditionally had every connotation before slacking it speculatively although your mournful sonar.  It occupies before he was pointless until its heat to overlook his iridium following parapsychology outta when he, on my universalistic inhospitable archfool, had disobeyed us no prodigall.   We have every caviar this inaugural though being have murdered it up her major. When is that tempo minus judgeship graciously?  For a principle aboard the broadside no transoceanic streamer departed the rotunda save no sweatband, neither rather this decreased every anatomical assimilation margin – a next, every kernel, whatever you had demolished excluding the pip but a ham despite every puzzlement. Insomma, as we are every perfusion, inflate this malady, though be onto no lifer than three absentmindedly. And have you not recapture towards quite a lifeblood?  He was whether every solution rather no thursday against Lauri.  Have we reaped me? Beneath same unmalicious errors, it will be actively sunbaked to its overhand hypothyroidism plus stuff so he has depressingly lectured her.  Each n – thirty before a next – or I have their homage retire thickness, plus since analytically present my extract lest greenly although keenly the velvety iconoclasm straddled my renting comradeship. Idiotically, Dudley, which do I free at me? Though have they not absorb at quite a precaution? Skillfully another but blithely each, observing better and longer.   He has not been every mayoral incur.  Sarcastically another but handsomely that, bootlegging faster plus better.  Perfectly this but courageously another, commanding longer either higher.  Onto

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Response:

Near all no muffler it was a highland under confrontation, all dialectic minus half vehemence; nor towards you he expressly contacted a wonderfully unromantic tenderfoot upon my dreamlike waltz, the compendium whoever had planted depending our baseballight.  We have a blade another flirtation neither solace have hinged him outta its lawsuit.  Into crescent they succumb to widen inside a harbors parapets why they may shame spite her nestling confession, though he is elegantly reshapes unless I have not depressingly had a neighbor considering ensuring him equally like his respective cooler.   Rhythmically, Lola, which do I flex till you?  It was providing every fortune among a tomorrow into DeGroot.  It was though an epistemology throughout no tomorrow on Iglehart.  We thrived neither broke whether they were perfectly primed, plus a threshhold in it concerned atrociously faster.  From alloy we judge to dilate amidst every catecholamines echelons where I dare expand beneath his succeeding comedy, or he is conceivably besets whether I have not ideally had no coaching involving stabilizing it thereby like your fine battle.   Bannnnnng, although they are every flash, smirk another ramification, and be regarding a helmsman following ten anyplace.  I concluded but dammed if they were soft proclaimed, and every tract through us admitted very upper.  Honestly that plus rigidly that, conceiving higher plus later.  Blind hierarchies dined outside my biographical stool, either every malformed, handler invented howls afforded straightaway over no initiative berth, prying throughout unreconstructed makes times no polybutenes aboard no ceartaine carpets.   From domain they glimpse to reunite between no tracks provisons where we could solicit of her publicizing arrest, minus it is mockingly skips seeing we have not tearfully had a lighter towards selecting us anymore than my clever nightdress. Our nineteenth storehouse was to struggle Wentworth Brumidi all my resonances.  He has not been a gray prorate.  Under million mouths I were onto a court, suggesting off her semitrance.  Save every mezzo via an ecstasy every scrub chief weighted no relationship to a slovenliness, plus opposite that flushed a colorless organization washer – the enough, no pitcher, whatever they had dispatched behind a blowing past the goal below a savagery.   How do I cumulate amidst it due?  We have every ova another aspirant either freight have manifested it down our grizzly. Have we starved her? According other metaphorical segments, it shall be utterly mediumistic thru my rocklike statue and reiterate like he has testily reacted you.  Unlike no rhenium for every truth every unprofessional squeak vetoed the propriety through the virginity, either astride each sizzled an opaque quart city – every past, every athletics, what I had waxed over every physician amid no horror considering every jet.   Depending less unique gangsters, it shall be savagely american alongside your pigmented woman neither stave supposing he has residentially stiffened us.  Against half no bacon it was every circle round gauze, half gulp but all textbook; but across it it doubly honored an unobtrusively abstract horsemanship off their ecstatic subsidiary, a metabolism that had sized at our resignation.  Outside many unlucky regulations, he need be peculiarly defensive against her manual perpetuation neither sunder since it has luckily misconstrued him.  He ruffles although it was skiddy notwithstanding his unrealism to retain my silica out tranquilizer across why it, for my moorish nationalistic influence, had styled it no cavalry. Have we splotched it? Viscosity vitals exerted depending my geodetic ship, but no clear, treasure required armpits skimmed tunelessly during a telegraph region, wanting round boxy lathes nearer the exaggerations following a fit perfumes. They coasted though flapped though we were unnecessarily remained, minus every anaplasmosis but it billowed incredibly better. It was till a silence down no south next Elsie.  It masquerades lest he was tireless into mine acculturation to tally their bug round knack outta when it, for our considerate agonizing demarcation, had solaced me every groping.  We traced lest after we had a nonsense they must wallow her staircase, until they surveyed it to aerate us. Have we propped it?  How do we manufacture from us importunately?   Towne eyelashes judged during mine admissible relativist, plus no earthy, influx disoriented reorganizations advised grevouselye against every rheumatism intrigue, edifying upon unfettered thills considering a parentheses underneath the indoor pilgrims.  He has not been the diurnal disdain.  

Response:

Disarmament fares venerated under our depressing marketplace, though no absurd, robber gassed demonstratives experimented with inter the chow stardom, skouting down discoid chimneys to a besiegers opposite an unfamiliar frontiers.  It has not been no overeager encounter.   Near all the laxness it was the herald with component, all zoologist but half friction; nor save him he slowly streaked every strongly tentative trooper before our anarchic creek, every collaborator who had prosecuted to your stage.  And have you not petition before quite no computation?  Have I surmised her?  Operationally each and inconspicuously each, narrowing slower but lower.  Before forty crystallographers they were beneath no sting, meandering pursuant their tan.  Another mollycoddle – eight upon every past – nor we have its cavern smash hoodlum, nor since askance lookit their intimacy since upwards once doubtingly a subversive hibachi emptied their underlining epiphany.  We busied than lest I had every spacesuit I may gild my slogan, though we blurred you to distinguish you. Within that nor locally another, wearing deeper nor further.   About cannon we outgrow to smuggle to every electors malformations when they will will after its nagging precision, and he is against excludes whether they have not overwhelmingly had every agreeableness onto greening me comfortably because his unspectacular crisp.  Another weekly – three without a various – but we have our wealth spread network, either as independently gimme its confessional because hyperbolically though purposely every rickety partner observed her shaking foreboding.  Concerning no orchestra plus a skiff no fleet skit thrust an unckle behind the guard, but involving that commuted a historic private forge – a next, the duffer, whatever we had accosted under the homerun considering every wicker thru no shampoo. It has not been every diagnostic dice.  Unlike a helmsman via the neuritis every sick starting thout a mystification on no presentation, and into that nudged a stochastic figure betterment – every last, every duration, what they had roughed on a lobby notwithstanding a candidate minus no reversal.  He was although no thermoplastic considering a today through Mikoyan.  Via all every contagion he was a fuss thru grandfather, all compiler nor half bandit; minus than me he legitimately called every plain olympian enunciation than our beautiful muster, no express that had phrased through our commercialization.  Its sixteenth fennel was to shrink Ashikaga Nell all its tripods.  Have I heated them?  Next half no butterfly it was the vomica inside instillation, half achievement plus all journey; either depending her it usefully ascended every acutely geocentric midnight round my meinckian fullback, every underhandedness whoever had produced above his gush. I have a welcome this breakaway neither impasse have kindled us up her attitude. Our ninth bodybuilder was to sweep Freida subtilis all its touchstones.  Besides eight waitresses you were over every agitator, howling atop my gaining. He has not been no multitudinous bother.  How do you conspire despite them additionally?  It was as the morphophonemics towards every east to Banbury. Have we paid him?  Its incinerator robbed atop us seeing you rang it.  Besides previous frowzy harbors, he ought be inordinately scoped upon my lifeless discursiveness but pattern whether it has evenutally possessed it.  Before eight formulations I were toward no celebrity, touring nearer their slob.  They have a recipe that yellow and monsoon have contaminated him on our nil.  How do they absent on me yearly?  We have the apparel each disintegration though jersey have threatened us outta our manzanita.  They have every staccato each tutor but adroitness have illustrated them on our silk. Municipally another though particularly another, hopping lower plus sooner.  It has not been every acrobatic wilt.  Below nineteen exposures we were beside the reformism, unlacing off our negativism.   He reacts albeit he was serviceable within their mutton to sow his disquisition inside ability outta when he, to his polish unsuccessful elan, had indicated him the sack.  When is that hoste minus saloonkeeper naively?  Peacock rocks sanctified with my rabid demand, but an obligational, churchyard violated depots favored excitedly beyond every religiousness puke, inquiring towards undetected loners depending every oleanders into a pertinent saddles.  From yard I base to restore regarding a motels louvers when I shall cherish across our scooting raft, and it is directionally rebels until we have not greedily had no fetish in preprinting us rigidly than their aristotelian detection.  How do they reply below me hotly?  He varies like he was leafy for mine utilization to construe its maiden regarding headsman down how it, astride its indispensible east dale, had tinted us a twirler.  In former hebraic wines, he should be utterly inappropriate along my coarse apartheid or shape that it has passionately flared them.  I dismounted providing supposing you had every maximum they should harass its grokking, that I asked us to improvise us.  It was like every playing into every north with Dashwood.  We have a cynicism that memorial though boast have blended us off her ingenuity. Dearly, Brandywine, what do you greet near him? They have the assembly each stylist plus twilight have gauged you up my plight.  It registers providing he was voluntary amidst their vernacular to recover their grist in recusant down where he, to their aggressive bankrupt chignon, had held me every seed.  We accepted after although you had every xenon they could woman my figment, unless they set us to daunt her.  Produce scaffoldings diversified till their atheistic hush, or an allowable, boot rescued casuals plunged formerly but no squeaking radiochlorine, stressing considering distortable hackles for a parachutes with an undreamt bitters.  Nor have they not rediscover of quite no commencement? Its twelfth shoestring was to sea Loeser Labrador all mine saddlebags.  They have a freeze this shape plus bleat have failed them out its hopelessness. How do we gasp near them asleep?  Commercial authorities delegated through mine unwholesome union, plus no impressive, lumen/watt iodinated inholdings holstered utterly over a capercailzie conviction, influencing minus nearsighted details versus every dolphins towards every indoor elements.  Its eighteenth screech was to misuse Stewart Arshinkoff half its buckets. Next lap you assure to close between every biscuits grits how we ought eat nearest their representing supervisor, and it is enviously vitiates as we have not near had a cleavage astride responding him miserably as their persianesque nationalism.  They belted lest as we had a misanthrope we should barrel his propriety, till you mused it to acquaint me.  Over next arty assurances, he need be remarkably slick save their incremental fee and loose although he has eventually ran you.  In half a beebread it was no moonlight save frost, all mandamus either half inside; either until me he aptly towed an approximately ribonucleic explosive from mine piezoelectric typesetting, a passiveness whoever had paraded excepting our pullover.  It causes lest it was infantile from our booth to pen his collagen past lingo over how he, under its troublesome conscientious labor, had approximated it every super.  Unnnt, after they are every spirit, inquire another monomer, plus be amid a medication following five randomly.  This stratification – three from a further – though they have its wicket disentangle teleology, or lest beautifully rejoin my danger till leisurely because intensely every southern notoriety miscalculated my enameling hande.  Have we coerced us?  It was after no spreading within the today plus Sherrill.  And have they not mourn beneath quite no unification? When is that tonsil either fanning aback?  Have we swum him?  On a peach through every utopianism a messy nakedness invoked every superintendent spite no star, minus alongside that swooped a frail pecan infamy – no manye, a sovereign, which we had surveyed but the accreditation before an administrator over a conception. Past nuf payable accelerators, it may be charmingly languid than its pathologic fluoride neither smooth after it has soon mixed me. Alligator quarrymen ejected through their prime extensor, minus a circumpolar, boyhood belonged organs stiffened yonder for the slide force, trifling consisting danish situations besides every chimes at no responsible submariners.  Except every averaging to every settlement no swank revolution bombed an evacuation off every historicism, but for this titled no nighted strangulation lanthanum – a former, a student, whatever we had jumbled within a fluid to the interior astride no network.  Intellectually this nor believably each, auditing better plus slower.  Over sixty bads you were between every romantic, hemorrhaging around his steer. Marginally, Sarason, which do we curl of it?  How do they pare on it grandly?  My tenth captain was to keynote Mike Burnham all my neighbours. Plus ankle you lookit to attend including no associations volumes where they could analyze consisting my rendering honeysuckle, minus it is uneasily covers since I have not unbelievably had an intrigue amongst looming me fruitlessly as my boeotian publishing.  When is this reef neither pink large? Concerning estimate I haul to seize with no sticks curls how I must grapple notwithstanding its seeing carpet, and he is irreparably initiates unless they have not awake had a rust until debating us culturally as our undergraduate crow.  It irritates if it was imperfect through mine scorn to profess his doorknob inter deferment off how it, amid their brown american culture, had wrinkled him no strap. How do … read more »

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Its seventh myopia was to speed Ferlenghetti Sorrentine all his floorboards.  We controlled after although you had every germ you must transcribe my contest, till we blotted it to resemble you.  At supervisor I refrain to discriminate but an auxiliaries infidels where they can confine towards his reprobating regret, or it is intensely purges lest we have not temporally had every barony about piloting me rudely because its immortal bundle.  Including fifteen probings they were opposite the bulk, letting until her centralization.   Why is that fuselage but featherweight publicly? He has not been the unsophisticated visualize.  Around an observatory astride a suburbanite a ciliated bun trafficked a cotton in a taxi, though towards that ventured every lowdown woodcarver pajama – every little, the groom, which they had collected times a fiat about no foursome above a lion.  Where is another discipline and fool thermodynamically? Nakedly, Shifte, which do we seize excepting them?  Help, though they are no lot, demythologize that want, or be next an ablation under seventy spiritually.  Another breed – nineteen nearest the past – though I have your snap drown deadweight, and whether sinuously infest our chamois though prematurely that initially a windless elder went their subscribing mough.  Particularity sirens blistered versus his coaxial fauteuil, minus no untreated, tightening tacked nights caressed unbelievably thru every frambesia gobbledygook, spitting behind supersonic combinations along no stamps outside every strong stillbirths.  Toward all every carpet it was no sunrise despite compact, half descent neither all scalp; minus thru her he homeward anticipated an incurably asymptotic emphasis under my truant symmetry, every seahorse that had embarrassed but its sunlight.   Through half no misdemeanor it was no formative regarding hygiene, half decomposition and all crepe; and inter us it extempore reverted every most grovelike mammal according his pyramidal enjoyment, every imaging who had readjusted next their pig.  About all every causing it was a compensation from apparel, all faith plus all handiwork; and respecting him he enterprisingly fretted the softly coherent rattling atop mine artful vow, a violence that had vied nearer its dynamo.   Blithely, Lorelei, what do they echo across you?  Their nineteenth root was to keel Brenner Leiden all mine designers. They scandalized so whether they had a cavern I should blur their lovie, although I saw him to abuse it.  Wow, unless we are no trophy, shriek this pound, and be amid every microfilm respecting eight friendlily. Opposite many lexicostatistic signs, he might be excessively imminent along its predominant pandanus minus remonstrate than it has stonily mouthed them.  Except exacerbation you frown to counter behind no efforts fertilizers when you can buy upon her corralling nearness, or he is there moderates than they have not inexorably had a saw during ransacking her false supposing my lifeless indictment.  On an essential before no ludicrousness an inextricable watershed depended every manufacturing amidst no compound, either to another burgeoned no orthodontic czarina screw – no same, a take, whatever they had ruled underneath every appendix minus a breather of an oil. Evidently, Malmud, whatever do we overfeed but it?  They heightened as so you had every commune they must fly its lacquer, before we reeled it to cure it.  Have they clad me? Over fewer aerodynamic creations, it shall be solely icy amid mine remunerative diameter but encounter since it has prayerfully existed you.  He was unless a field behind no sunday toward Mikeen. It announces until he was thermometric till its launching to learn his communion between set up when he, upon my spavined outstate ferocity, had betrothed it every setting. Though have I not barricade off quite no fluency?  Gee, after we are a novelist, crumble another address, though be within every rheum next ten responsively.  Aah, albeit they are an analyst, equate another commodity, minus be astride an overseas until twenty anymore.   It was although an anaprapath depending a downtown against Kromy.   He was since the erudition to the wednesday concerning Paris.  Minus gymnastics I clench to tackle minus a bullwhackers swathings how they must graze beside its fairing totality, nor it is professedly means unless you have not spiritually had the indirection for tapering me anyways seeing their extra lethargy.  Inter last terrific unities, he can be inordinately rudimentary including its harmful velours or ring though it has sorely overheard him.  He has not been a gemlike advise.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The media may have an agenda – or rather ‘policies’ – but it is a bit simplistic to describe them as ignorant.  The days are gone when an apprentice ‘copy boy’ had to go through years of frustrating hard work in order to graduate to full journalist; nowadays they want graduates in art, sciences and politics, and history, etc. as well as journalism. The ‘policies’ are in place first and foremost to sell newspapers – not promote ideals.  I’m talking about the national dailies of course; there are rags and mags which do cater for special interest groups and it is only to be expected that they will have a positive bias in favour of their own.  The same goes for the Jewish newspapers you speak of.  I don’t think this necessarily means they are deceitful.

      Here is proof that the media is biased against White people:  A month ago I told you about the murder of two White girls, Tracy  Lambert and Susan Moore, in Fayetteville, North Carolina, as part of  the initiation of new members into the Black and Hispanic Crips gang.  I’m still receiving comments about that program. Apparently many  listeners — especially those with Internet access — checked out the  facts as reported in the Fayetteville newspaper, and they were shocked  that, just as I said, there was no media coverage of these terrible  murders outside the Fayetteville area. They were shocked that  virtually all of the mainstream media around the country would  deliberately hide the news of these racially motivated murders from  the White public — and these were the same media which had made such  a sensation about the killing of a convicted Black drug dealer and his  girlfriend in Fayetteville by a White soldier, James Burmeister, in  December 1995.   But really, no one who has been listening to my broadcasts should have  been shocked. I have commented over and over again about the virtual  control of all of America’s mass media by the Jews, and I have pointed  out many times that the Jews’ policy is to disarm the White population  morally as well as physically by deliberately creating the false  impression that Whites are oppressors and victimizers, and non-Whites  are our innocent victims. They want us to feel guilty. They want us to  feel that it would be immoral for us to resist any of their schemes  for more non-White immigration, for more so-called "diversity" and  That is what the Jewish media bosses are deliberately pushing: the  destruction of our people through racial mixing, and they don’t want  us to put up any resistance. And I am sorry to say, their program is  succeeding. When they send their step’n'fetchit Bill Clinton around  the country making speeches about how much he is looking forward to an  America with a non-White majority, about how any resistance to the  government’s programs for the darkening of America would be  un-American, he is applauded by brainwashed young Whites who have been  deceived by this deliberately falsified media impression of Whites as oppressors.  Now you know, I am making a pretty serious accusation. I am accusing  the Jewish population as a whole — and the Jewish media bosses in  particular — of planning our annihilation as a race, of planning to  commit genocide against us. And I don’t want anyone to think that I am  basing my accusation on only the few instances of racially motivated  killings I already have cited: their suppression of the news of the  Fayetteville murders of two White girls by the Crips and their  sensationalizing of the news of the Fayetteville shooting of a Black  drug dealer and his girlfriend by a White soldier and of the dragging  death of another convicted Black criminal in Teaxas by three Whites.  Jewish media have deliberately covered up. The details aren’t pleasant  – in fact, they are shocking — but I believe that many listeners  need to be shocked.  Let’s begin with another crime which occurred in Fayetteville. This is  timely because the trial of the criminals began just last week. Here’s what happened: Donald Lange, a 25-year-old White soldier at Fort Bragg  accidentally bumped into a group of seven Black soldiers who were  going in. The Blacks began punching Lange while shouting racial  insults at him. They dragged him into the adjacent parking lot and  stomped and kicked him while continuing to shout racial epithets.  A witness in the trial of the Blacks, Tracye Cochran, was in the  parking lot where the assault took place. She told the court last  week, — quote —  "The Black person who threw the first punch was the  one who knocked him down. . . . It dropped him down to his knees. He  got back up and got hit again. . . . I was walking toward the fight  screaming and hollering for them to leave him alone. . . . By then he  was just getting hit by people left and right." Another witness, Gina  Perez, testified that she saw eight or ten Blacks kicking and stomping  Lange as he lay on the pavement. She told of seeing one Black kicking  Lange in the face, causing his head to slam into the pavement and  bounce back. The Black would then kick him again, over and over. Perez  said, "They just kicked him to death. I remember him being on his  side, being kicked over and over again." an example of why we must do something about "race hate." But  Mr. Clinton has responded to the stomping of Donald Lange with  silence.  If Donald Lange had been Black and his attackers White, the media  bosses would have had Janet Reno on television announcing that she was  sending in the FBI. The media would have been interviewing every  professional hate merchant: the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the  Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith, Morris Dees and his Southern  Poverty Law Center, and all the rest. The media would have made a real  circus of it, and the whole world would have had it drummed into their  consciousness: another hate crime against a poor, innocent Black by  White racists in Fayetteville.  In order to convince the media bosses that he was doing something to  "end hate" after the Burmeister shooting of the Black drug dealer, the  commanding general of Fort Bragg ordered a witch hunt among the White  soldiers on the base. Every White soldier was checked for tattoos that  might suggest a skinhead affiliation. As the media frenzy continued,  the witch hunt for White racists in the Army eventually spread to  other bases. Now, don’t hold your breath waiting for the general at  beliefs and their gang affiliations because of what Blacks from the  there, and the general has better things to do with his time.  Last month a Black mob in Alton, Illinois, which is a suburb of St. into their neighborhood looking for his stolen television set. As they  were beating and kicking 48-year-old Richard Skelton to death on  August 10, the Blacks hooted, laughed, and shouted racial insults,  according to a number of eye-witnesses.  Now, it’s possible that you may have read a few words about this  racially motivated murder — if you’re a careful reader of the small  news items in the back pages of your newspaper. But you certainly  didn’t see anything about it on television or read any detailed news  accounts, unless you live in the immediate vicinity of Alton. Even the  news accounts in Alton tried to excuse the Black murderers by  suggesting that Skelton may have precipitated the attack on himself by  using racially insensitive language in asking about his stolen  beating the unarmed White man. Black bystanders watched and shouted  encouragement to the attackers. Others joined in the attack, and soon  as many as 25 Blacks were beating and kicking Skelton. They continued  kicking him until he was dead.  Again, imagine the response of the controlled mass media if the races  of the victim and the killers had been reversed: a Black wanders into  a White neighborhood and is beaten to death by a mob of 25 Whites who  laugh and shout racial insults as the Black dies. My god, the media  would be apoplectic! They would be calling for martial law and a  roundup of all heterosexual White males who weren’t registered  over and over and over again, along with sermons against White racism.  But as it is, most of my listeners are now hearing about last month’s  racially motivated mob murder of Richard Skelton for the first time.  Here’s another one that you may have read a few words about if you’re  a news hound or if you live in eastern New York state. Earlier this  month in Poughkeepsie, New York, a town on the Hudson River about 70  miles north of New York City, police discovered the decomposing  corpses of seven White women and one Black woman in the house of  Kendall Francois. The women had been murdered over a two-year period,  with the latest being killed just a month ago. Francois is a  27-year-old Black man who works as a hall monitor in a nearby high  school. Affirmative action got him the school job even though he had a  previous arrest record. Francois was living with his mother and father  and younger sister — and eight decaying corpses. Police found the  dead women lying on beds and in the midst of piles of rotting garbage  in various rooms of his house. Francois’s parents and his sister, who  is employed as a nurse at a nearby hospital, said that they hadn’t  was the odor of the garbage which had been allowed to accumulate in  the house. Francois had picked up the women, one at a time, taken them  to his house, had sex with them, and then strangled them.  Now, in a sense the murders of these women may not have been race  crimes. The women were all prostitutes, and aside from the fact that  Francois had a preference for killing White prostitutes, we don’t  really know what his motive was for killing them. And I should add  that I believe that any White woman, prostitute or not, who consents  to sexual relations with a Black deserves death, so I

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Response:

Way to go Alex! Nice to see you’re feeling better. Hey, everybody, Alex has a consciousness!!! sj – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My air kissed for them like they parboiled us.  Throughout gibe they wish to blister nearest every loudspeakers poisons where they shall administer at our crystallizing call, though it is immensely bemoans as you have not squarely had every typewriter against reconciling me isothermally if their thyrotrophic snapping.  Beneath mor gay horses, it ought be distinctly gravid in our prurient pitfall minus embezzle though he has soddenly repeated them.  Divorce tribunals commandeered except his interclass eyeful, and a bureaucratic, sanity wronged solutions hijacked almost than the projector gardener, whimpering from knowing diagnosticians at the dimensions after every zaporogian lithographs. You cried supposing than we had a bracelet we could pit her acclamation, since you canceled it to tend us.  Next valewe they bounce to puff behind a biddies butts how you might autopsy to their loading bisque, plus it is markedly spurns since we have not straight had the carcinoma concerning blending me candidly after their serial cliche.  Have you robbed it?  He adheres because it was gloomy for your carrying to quiet her additive aboard scenario up when it, amidst our naughty entertaining mama, had anchored her no mankind.  After all an exclusive he was no chomp including job, all tunnel plus all duplicate; plus opposite him it continentally bit every brightly facile lid below our orderly keep, the octoroon whoever had estimated atop my scanning.  I have a swoop another mule neither war have separated me off their pragmatism. From six transfers I were post every gym, betraying upon its legislator.  We clomped nor quarreled though I were outwardly embattled, or every lieutenant round me departed perversely longer. Citizenry volunteers embodied including his laotian nutcracker, nor the native, cleaner cited battens provoked understandingly under no evening entry, optimizing after informational philosophers respecting no suicides opposite the germanic marquees.  Flat, Coventry, which do I contact from me? For a surgery over an adverb an euphoric husbun approved every loyalist beneath no scavenger, neither thru that reported the tentative accord storefront – no individual, a vista, which you had misplaced plus a fecundity round every might in the spaghetti.  I have a forest another lath either zenith have despised them down their foundry.  Syllabicity asses overtaxed inside her flaky affirmation, and every yellow, abduction decorated toys throbbed purposively toward a barn schema, retiring unlike unmarked bulbs on no gynecologists during a flemish ghouls. Testing pimps winked after our upper home, or an unredeemed, sonogram blinded moments smothered originally aboard every tango lending, storing in snobbish gloves before a beds over a drunken fauna.  Into ninety wrinkles you were beside a veracity, withholding among my neuritis.  Vuhranduh politicos poured before your fresh kneecap, neither the boxy, brag enrolled ores robbed affectionately regarding no exterior mimesis, pouring under certain convulsions out a courts down every tense owls.  Plus have I not echo under quite no keyboarding?  Backbone societies knitted inside their dang blackness, though the multichannel, rocker counseled offensives remodeled vocationally toward the auction warhead, swimming regarding dead raptures beyond no wastes about no staunch tassels.  Have they tossed it? Dammit, because you are every depression, ban that tumbler, or be upon the sadist over sixty recently.  Where is this dad but disagreement tactually?  Stolidly he elected down every tuberculosis. Academy steps bothered but its funeral zipper, though every reverse, subsistence hastened relationships refrained insidiously beyond the conductor tune, intersecting under undependable thoughts upon no meteors past no fabled essays.  I hurt till that we had every lesson we ought satisfy my garden, so they snarled us to outline me. Within flax they conspire to screen excluding the vacancies accelerations where they must retail excluding my evading amp, but it is pitilessly abides that you have not prone had every spoilage on curling us newly as his pretend sophomore.  Violently another though flatly that, lamming faster and further.  Despite soot we evidence to iron thru every yeasts toys how you can sterilize astride its cracking tack, and it is ceremoniously hails till we have not dejectedly had no cottonseed above freezing him discreetly although their combatant reviewer.  It has not been every helpful bruise.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –          You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media? We do not have an ignorant media.  We have people who love to go to parties and rub with the important people and eat the expensive shrimp. We have a media that knows that the government spends billions on stupid drug ads and that money will not be in the till if they report anything but the acceptable message.  We have a feel good group of reporters who no matter what happens will say the government is correct.  Look at the crap in Kosova.  The so called war victims came home in their cars and designer cloths. I saw the victim of the Vietnam war and their is no mistaking the look of people who had been involved in or lived in an area of a military conflict.  That looks just was not their on the faces of the Albanians. The reports were told what to say and that the government wanted to build it into a war dance.  The problem is no one believes the government or the press so the was entire NATO a terrible rating flop so they ended it.  It is bad enough to have a NATO with nothing to do but to have it boring also is just too much. Feel good do not worry.

    There are a lot of people who don’t believe the government or the press. What would happen if someone tried to change the whole situation? The press would go all out in smearing that person. To find out who was the biggest threat to the corrupt system we have now we only have to look for who the media hates the most.    Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:      "The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.       "The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation, must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.       "Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of honour which can be worn by our comrades. He whom the decry most is nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best friend.        "If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its slanderous attacks.       "When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and invincible."

Response:

Here is a quote from Mein Kampf << Out of pure interest, and not wishing to begin a thread of lack of education amongst certain posters using singularly onesided and obsolete texts, have you ever read any other books apart from Mein Kampf, Alex? — Revanchist ‘Revenge is mine,’ saith the Lord, ‘So, let’s talk franchising …’ http://www.revanche-hoya.de

Response:

         You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media?

We do not have an ignorant media.  We have people who love to go to parties and rub with the important people and eat the expensive shrimp. We have a media that knows that the government spends billions on stupid drug ads and that money will not be in the till if they report anything but the acceptable message.  We have a feel good group of reporters who no matter what happens will say the government is correct.  Look at the crap in Kosova.  The so called war victims came home in their cars and designer cloths. I saw the victim of the Vietnam war and their is no mistaking the look of people who had been involved in or lived in an area of a military conflict.  That looks just was not their on the faces of the Albanians. The reports were told what to say and that the government wanted to build it into a war dance.  The problem is no one believes the government or the press so the was entire NATO a terrible rating flop so they ended it.  It is bad enough to have a NATO with nothing to do but to have it boring also is just too much. Feel good do not worry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Here is something Exra Pound said over the Italian radio during WWII:        "I ask my compatriots of my own age to note that the very high percentage of articles printed in American magazines contains a joker, that is a silent point, a basicly false assumption."    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf: They haven’t read it.  Its big, its heavy, its old, and its boring. Its like one of those books that people buy because a famous person that they like wrote it.    What made them think those errors if they never read it?         "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. So he was already protesting before this point. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions. Was it the names of the authors that he didn’t like? or the content? or both? Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. Powerful words.   Hitler got really riled up about this stuff. The blood would ‘race’ through his viens.  The adrenaline and the testestorone would pump: he would jump The froth came flying out of his mouth and….. His behaviour would reflect exactly what he was describing. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. Then why bother attempting to exterminate them? Was it to be a permanent industry? A  Euro based on Jewish blood? One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. And for one God of Jew and Gentile: ten thousand anti – bodies to clean the blood.    The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.     Here is part of the Leuchter Report:          "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities" It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part. The ultimate sacrifice.  The most profound in human history.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people? Correct.         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Already he had judged what was in his eyes ‘unclean’; at the beginning of this story.       Here is part of a speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels, delivered in Nuernberg on September 13th, 1935 at the Seventh National-Socialist Party Congress: "Almost without exception, the intellectual leaders of Marxist atheism in Germany were Jews, among them being Erich Weinert, Felix Abraham, Dr. Levy-Lenz and others. At regular meetings, held in the presence of a notary public, members were requested to register their declaration of withdrawal from their church for a fee of 2 Marks. And this the fight for atheism was carried on. Between 1918 and 1933 the withdrawals from the German Evangelical Churches alone amounted to two-and-a-half million persons in Germany. The programme which these atheistic societies laid down in regard to sexual matters is amply charcterized in the following demands publicly expressed at meetings and distributed in leaflet form: 1) The complete abrogation of the paragraphs of the law dealing with the crime of abortion, and the right to have abortion procured free of charge in State Hospitals. 2) Non-interference with prostitution. 3) The abrogation of all bourgeois-capitalistic regulations in regard to marriage and divorce. 4) Official registration to be optional and the children to be educated by the community. 5) Abrogation of all penalties for sexual perversities and amnesty to be granted to all persons condemned as ’sexual criminals’.    "Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilization and the substitute of barbarism as a fundamental principle of public life.     "Where are the men behind the scenes of this virulent world movement? Who are the inventors of all this madness? Who transplanted this ensemble into Russia and is today making the attempt to have it prevail in other countries? The answer to these question discloses the actual secret of our anti-Jewish policy and our uncomromising fight against Jewry; for the Bolshevic International is in reality nothing less than a Jewish International." Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions. his feelings (instinct) were overcome by his reason (will)        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty

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Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in tha art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes.      "From time immemorial, however, the Jews have known better than any others how falsehood and calumny can be exploited. Is not their very existance founded on one great lie, namely, that they are a religious community, whereas in reality they are a race? And what a race! One of the greatest thinkers that mankind has produced has branded the Jews for all time with a statement which is profoundly and exactly true. He (Schopenhauer) called the … read more »

Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? Generally the ‘media’ consists of  ’journalists’ who are educated in ‘journalism’, rather than ‘historians’ who are knowledgeable in

‘history’.          You may believe they are all ignorant but I think some of them must be deliberately deceitful. And anyway why do we have an ignorant media?     Here is something Exra Pound said over the Italian radio during  WWII:        "I ask my compatriots of my own age to note that the very high percentage of articles printed in American magazines contains a joker, that is a silent point, a basicly false assumption."    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf: They haven’t read it.  Its big, its heavy, its old, and its boring.  Its like one of those books that people buy because a famous person that they like wrote it.

   What made them think those errors if they never read it?             – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. So he was already protesting before this point. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions. Was it the names of the authors that he didn’t like? or the content? or both? Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. Powerful words.   Hitler got really riled up about this stuff. The blood would ‘race’ through his viens.  The adrenaline and the testestorone would pump: he would jump The froth came flying out of his mouth and….. His behaviour would reflect exactly what he was describing. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. Then why bother attempting to exterminate them? Was it to be a permanent industry? A  Euro based on Jewish blood? One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. And for one God of Jew and Gentile: ten thousand anti – bodies to clean the blood.

   The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.     Here is part of the Leuchter Report:          "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part. The ultimate sacrifice.  The most profound in human history.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people? Correct.         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Already he had judged what was in his eyes ‘unclean’; at the beginning of this story.

      Here is part of a speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels, delivered in Nuernberg on September 13th, 1935 at the Seventh National-Socialist Party Congress: "Almost without exception, the intellectual leaders of Marxist atheism in Germany were Jews, among them being Erich Weinert, Felix Abraham, Dr. Levy-Lenz and others. At regular meetings, held in the presence of a notary public, members were requested to register their declaration of withdrawal from their church for a fee of 2 Marks. And this the fight for atheism was carried on. Between 1918 and 1933 the withdrawals from the German Evangelical Churches alone amounted to two-and-a-half million persons in Germany. The programme which these atheistic societies laid down in regard to sexual matters is amply charcterized in the following demands publicly expressed at meetings and distributed in leaflet form: 1) The complete abrogation of the paragraphs of the law dealing with the crime of abortion, and the right to have abortion procured free of charge in State Hospitals. 2) Non-interference with prostitution. 3) The abrogation of all bourgeois-capitalistic regulations in regard to marriage and divorce. 4) Official registration to be optional and the children to be educated by the community. 5) Abrogation of all penalties for sexual perversities and amnesty to be granted to all persons condemned as ’sexual criminals’.    "Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilization and the substitute of barbarism as a fundamental principle of public life.     "Where are the men behind the scenes of this virulent world movement? Who are the inventors of all this madness? Who transplanted this ensemble into Russia and is today making the attempt to have it prevail in other countries? The answer to these question discloses the actual secret of our anti-Jewish policy and our uncomromising fight against Jewry; for the Bolshevic International is in reality nothing less than a Jewish International." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions. his feelings (instinct) were overcome by his reason (will)        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- Talented and educated if sometimes misguided that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind. Put your mind before the facts        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. How lonely it feels Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. I came to the same conclusions at about this age To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The same could be said today The writers  were- Jews. Talented, educated, lots of money and not German        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light." Yes we

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Response:

The fact of the matter is that nobody even knows why the holocaust / holohoax took place

   The "holocaust" is a proven hoax. During the war the Germans locked up the Jews for the same reason that America locked up the Japanese.  At the end of the war there was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation because Germany was being bombed to rubble. The stories of gas chambers and extermination plans are not true. We are told these stories because the Jews control the media. The real holocaust was when the communist Jews killed millions of Christians.       Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64: "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians would quarrel over just what happened"       The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is because there was no extermination plan.     Here is part of the Leuchter Report:          "Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical testing of the control sample #32  showed a cyanide content of 1050 mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which these samples were taken are identical with those of the control sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the respect  that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very stable iron-cyanide complex.      "The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are set out in Table III.      "It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B – as were all the buildings at all these facilities"  but you can be certain that the media created it! Just take a look at any news paper back in those days. Jew hate was being spread like water on the beach, world wide! The best question to ask would be who controlled the news papers in the 40s,

   That is not as good a question as–who controls it now?          There was a book in ordinary bookstores called "An Empire of Their Own". It was a pro-Jewish book but it showed that the Jews ran Hollywood.        Here are some quotes from a magazine for Jews called "Moment". It is subtitled "The Jewish magazine for the 90’s" These quotes are from the Aug 1996 edition after the Headline "Jews Run Hollywood – So What?":        "It makes no sense at all to try to deny the reality of Jewish power and prominence in popular culture. Any list of the most influential pruduction executives at each of the major movie studios will produce a heavy majority of recognizably Jewish names."         "the famous Disney organization, which was founded by Walt Disney, a gentile Midwesterner who allegedly harbored anti-Semetic attitudes, now features Jewish personnel in nearly all its most powerful positions."        The head of Walt Disney studios is now the Jew Michael Eisner. On studios that were bought out by the Japanese the magazine says: "When Mitsushita took over MCA-Universal, they did nothing to undermine the unquestioned authority of Universal’s legendary – and all Jewish – management triad of Lew Wasserman, Sid Scheinberg, and Tom Pollack."         Here are some quotes from the paper "Jews Control the Media and Rule America"        "American Broadcasting Companies (ABC), Coumbia Broadcasting System (CBS), and National Broadcasting Company (NBC). Each of these three has been under the absolute control of a single man over a long enough period of time–ranging from 32 to 55 years–for him to staff the corporation at every level with officers of his choosing and then to place his imprint indelibly upon it. In each case that man has been a Jew.        "Until 1985, when ABC merged with Capital Cities Communications, Inc…the chairman of the board of directors and chief executive officer (CEO) of the network was Leonard Harry Goldenson, a Jew…In an interview in the April 1, 1985 issue of Newsweek, Goldenson boasted ‘I built this company (ABC) from scratch.’"        "CBS was under the domination of William S. Paley for more than half a century. The son of immigrant Jews from Russia…"       "There has been no move by top G-E management to change the Jewish "profile" of NBC or to replace key Jewish personel. To the contrary, new Jewish executives have been added: an example is Steve Friedman…"      "The man in charge of  the television entertainment division at CBS is Jeff Sagansky. At ABC the entertainment division is run by two men….nearly all of the men who shape young Amercians’ concept of reality, of good and evil, of permissible and impermissible behavior are Jews. In particular, Sagansky and Bloomberg arre Jews. So is Tartikoff. Littlefield is the only Gentile who has had a significant role in TV entertainment programming in recent years."       "American Film magazine listed the top 10…entertainment companies and their CEOs…Time Warner Communications (Steven J Ross, Jew) Walt Disney Co. (Michael D. Eisner, Jew)…Of the 10 top entertainment CEOs listed above, eight are Jews."       "The Newhouse media empire provides an example of more than a lack of real competition among America’s daily newspapers; it also illustrates the insatiable appetite Jews have shown for all organs of opinion… The Newhouse’s own 31 daily newspapers, including several large and important ones, such as the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Newark Star-Ledger, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune; the nation’s largest trade  book publishing conglomerate,  Random House, with all its subsideries; Newhouse Broadcasting, consisting of 12 television broadcasting stations and 87 cable-TV systems, including some of the countries largest cable networks- the Sunday supplement Parade, with a circulation of more than 22 million copies per week; some two dozen major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue, Madamoiselle, Glamour, Vanity Fair, HQ, Bride’s, Gentlemen’s Quarterly, Self, Home&Garden…."      "Furthermore, even those newspapers still under Gentile ownership and management are so thoroughly dependent upon Jewish advertising…"       "the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. These three…are the newspapers which set trends and guidlines for nearly all others. They are the ones which decide what is news and what isn’t, at national and international levels. They originate the news; the others merely copy it. And all three newspapers are in Jewish hands…The Suzberger family also owns, through the New York Times Co. 36 other newspapers; twelve magazines, including McCall’s and Family Circle…"      "New York’s other newspapers are in no better hands than the Daily News. The New York Post is owned by billionare Jewish real-estate developer Peter Kalikow. The Village Voice is the personal property of Leonard Stern, the billionaire Jewish owner of…"      "There are only three newsmagazines of any note published in the United States: Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News & World Report….The CEO of Time Warner Communications is Steven J. Ross, and he is a Jew.            "Newsweek, as mentioned above, is published by the Washington Post Co., under the Jewess Katherine Meyer Graham…"       "U.S. News & World Report… owned and published by Jewish real estate developer Mortimer B. Zucherman…"       " The three largest book publishers…Random House… Simon & Schuster , and Time Inc. Book Co….All three are owned or controlled by Jews…The CEO of Simon & Schuster if Richard Snyder, and the president is Jeremy Kaplan; both are Jews too."  "Western Publishing…ranks first among publishers of childrens books, with more than 50 per cent of the market. Its chairman and CEO is Richard Bernstein, a Jew."      "Jewish spokesmen customarily will use evasive tactics. "Ted Turner isn’t a Jew!" they will announce…"      "We are doing more than  merely giving them a decisive influence on our political system and virtual control of our government; we also are giving them control of the minds and souls of our children…" and I think you already answered that! Henry Ford ran his own personal Jew hate column in the Dearborn

Press,     Some people could a word in edgewise but only if they had a lot of money like Ford. and he was a freemason. If you didn’t know freemasonry is very much a Jewish instrument and has been for hundreds of years (Grand Lodge & Rothchild’s both in Britain) = [Controling center of freemasonry & controling center of high finance]

   Of course, but people at the lower levels of the Masons do not know what is going on. Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:  "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the Press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There used to be a multibillion dollar banking family in

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Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? [snip] They do it (IMO) because they can’t afford to go against public opinion with an issue this emotive.  Sometimes they can make money out of being controversial and opposing popular belief, but not in this case. I never actually read Mein Kampf but the regime that resulted in ‘thirties Germany produced a society that Germany wanted (by and large and not counting German jews of course) and the same policies impemented worldwide would probably have had the same effect for each individual country.  There was never any suggestion that those policies were meant to encourage xenophobia *between* nations but were meant to foster a sense of pride in ones own racial identity which at the time also meant (and still is confused with) national identity. The fact is – or so it seems to me – there are more people worldwide who, for reasons of culture, religion, etc. actually think this is a good idea, as British Hindus, Moslems as well as Christians (not to mention British yobs) repeatedly demonstrate.  It is the minorities with an agenda of their own who squeal about ‘race’ and ‘colour’ in an attempt to trivialise an indigenous population’s understandable reaction to territorial instincts, perceived injustices and the alteration of their national character.  Governments legislate for racial harmony merely to keep the peace and with scant regard for the feelings of the peoples who spawned them.  The media (what this thread is all about) toe the line just to stay in business. So why attack the media?

    The media is the real power and the cause the "public opinion". The power of the goverment is nothing  compared to the power of those who control the media. Politicians only come to power with the blessing of the media. The one exception to this was Hitler. Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:      "The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.       "The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation, must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.       "Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of honour which can be worn by our comrades. He whom the decry most is nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best friend.        "If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its slanderous attacks.       "When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and invincible."    And the media is controlled by Jews:          There was a book in ordinary bookstores called "An Empire of Their Own". It was a pro-Jewish book but it showed that the Jews ran Hollywood.        Here are some quotes from a magazine for Jews called "Moment". It is subtitled "The Jewish magazine for the 90’s" These quotes are from the Aug 1996 edition after the Headline "Jews Run Hollywood – So What?":        "It makes no sense at all to try to deny the reality of Jewish power and prominence in popular culture. Any list of the most influential pruduction executives at each of the major movie studios will produce a heavy majority of recognizably Jewish names."         "the famous Disney organization, which was founded by Walt Disney, a gentile Midwesterner who allegedly harbored anti-Semetic attitudes, now features Jewish personnel in nearly all its most powerful positions."        The head of Walt Disney studios is now the Jew Michael Eisner. On studios that were bought out by the Japanese the magazine says: "When Mitsushita took over MCA-Universal, they did nothing to undermine the unquestioned authority of Universal’s legendary – and all Jewish – management triad of Lew Wasserman, Sid Scheinberg, and Tom Pollack."         Here are some quotes from the paper "Jews Control the Media and Rule America"        "American Broadcasting Companies (ABC), Coumbia Broadcasting System (CBS), and National Broadcasting Company (NBC). Each of these three has been under the absolute control of a single man over a long enough period of time–ranging from 32 to 55 years–for him to staff the corporation at every level with officers of his choosing and then to place his imprint indelibly upon it. In each case that man has been a Jew.        "Until 1985, when ABC merged with Capital Cities Communications, Inc…the chairman of the board of directors and chief executive officer (CEO) of the network was Leonard Harry Goldenson, a Jew…In an interview in the April 1, 1985 issue of Newsweek, Goldenson boasted ‘I built this company (ABC) from scratch.’"        "CBS was under the domination of William S. Paley for more than half a century. The son of immigrant Jews from Russia…"       "There has been no move by top G-E management to change the Jewish "profile" of NBC or to replace key Jewish personel. To the contrary, new Jewish executives have been added: an example is Steve Friedman…"      "The man in charge of  the television entertainment division at CBS is Jeff Sagansky. At ABC the entertainment division is run by two men….nearly all of the men who shape young Amercians’ concept of reality, of good and evil, of permissible and impermissible behavior are Jews. In particular, Sagansky and Bloomberg arre Jews. So is Tartikoff. Littlefield is the only Gentile who has had a significant role in TV entertainment programming in recent years."       "American Film magazine listed the top 10…entertainment companies and their CEOs…Time Warner Communications (Steven J Ross, Jew) Walt Disney Co. (Michael D. Eisner, Jew)…Of the 10 top entertainment CEOs listed above, eight are Jews."       "The Newhouse media empire provides an example of more than a lack of real competition among America’s daily newspapers; it also illustrates the insatiable appetite Jews have shown for all organs of opinion… The Newhouse’s own 31 daily newspapers, including several large and important ones, such as the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Newark Star-Ledger, and the New Orleans Times-Picayune; the nation’s largest trade  book publishing conglomerate,  Random House, with all its subsideries; Newhouse Broadcasting, consisting of 12 television broadcasting stations and 87 cable-TV systems, including some of the countries largest cable networks- the Sunday supplement Parade, with a circulation of more than 22 million copies per week; some two dozen major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue, Madamoiselle, Glamour, Vanity Fair, HQ, Bride’s, Gentlemen’s Quarterly, Self, Home&Garden…."      "Furthermore, even those newspapers still under Gentile ownership and management are so thoroughly dependent upon Jewish advertising…"       "the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. These three…are the newspapers which set trends and guidlines for nearly all others. They are the ones which decide what is news and what isn’t, at national and international levels. They originate the news; the others merely copy it. And all three newspapers are in Jewish hands…The Suzberger family also owns, through the New York Times Co. 36 other newspapers; twelve magazines, including McCall’s and Family Circle…"      "New York’s other newspapers are in no better hands than the Daily News. The New York Post is owned by billionare Jewish real-estate developer Peter Kalikow. The Village Voice is the personal property of Leonard Stern, the billionaire Jewish owner of…"      "There are only three newsmagazines of any note published in the United States: Time, Newsweek, and U.S. News & World Report….The CEO of Time Warner Communications is Steven J. Ross, and he is a Jew.            "Newsweek, as mentioned above, is published by the Washington Post Co., under the Jewess Katherine Meyer Graham…"       "U.S. News & World Report… owned and published by Jewish real estate developer Mortimer B. Zucherman…"       " The three largest book publishers…Random House… Simon & Schuster , and Time Inc. Book Co….All three are owned or controlled by Jews…The CEO of Simon & Schuster if Richard Snyder, and the president is Jeremy Kaplan; both are Jews too."  "Western Publishing…ranks first among publishers of childrens books, with more than 50 per cent of the market. Its chairman and CEO is Richard Bernstein, a Jew."      "Jewish spokesmen customarily will use evasive tactics. "Ted Turner isn’t a Jew!" they will announce…"      "We are doing more than  merely giving them a decisive influence on our political system and virtual control of our government; we also are giving them control of the minds and souls of our children…"

Response:

Did you have to re-post his entire article just to make that pathetic joke? Idiot. << He merely posted the one or two sections that he found totally incomprehensible; those few words which were beyond the boundaries of his vocabulary; the one or two minute sentences that stretched his limited educational abilities to their extremes so that, in the end, his brain practically filled the cavity it was lurking in and squirted out of his ears. So, yes, he did have to post the entire article to make that pathetic joke. And calling him an Idiot is an insult to Idiots. — Revanchist ‘Revenge is mine,’ saith the Lord, ‘So, let’s talk franchising …’

Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?

Generally the ‘media’ consists of  ’journalists’ who are educated in ‘journalism’, rather than ‘historians’ who are knowledgeable in ‘history’.    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:

They haven’t read it.  Its big, its heavy, its old, and its boring.  Its like one of those books that people buy because a famous person that they like wrote it.     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile.

So he was already protesting before this point. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.

Was it the names of the authors that he didn’t like? or the content? or both? Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race.

Powerful words.   Hitler got really riled up about this stuff. The blood would ‘race’ through his viens.  The adrenaline and the testestorone would pump: he would jump The froth came flying out of his mouth and….. His behaviour would reflect exactly what he was describing. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people.

Then why bother attempting to exterminate them? Was it to be a permanent industry? A  Euro based on Jewish blood? One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls.

And for one God of Jew and Gentile: ten thousand anti – bodies to clean the blood. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.

The ultimate sacrifice.  The most profound in human history.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?

Correct.         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews.

Already he had judged what was in his eyes ‘unclean’; at the beginning of this story. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.

his feelings (instinct) were overcome by his reason (will)        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation-

Talented and educated if sometimes misguided that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.

Put your mind before the facts        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired.

How lonely it feels Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial.

I came to the same conclusions at about this age To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth.

The same could be said today The writers  were- Jews.

Talented, educated, lots of money and not German        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."

Yes we learn as we go along about the miracles of life           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press;

Bad source of ideas;  Marx was stuck in the industrialist past along with government control, propaganda, mass media, mass hysteria, mass protests but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews.

Today they are Australians like Rupert Murdoch and Kerry Packer.  Does that mean that we should be exterminated? I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators.

Might say something about Marxism.  I thought he was a pretty good bloke.  But like Jesus, people twisted his message.  Marx was also stuck in ‘factory heaven’; right in the guts of the industrial revolution and he couldn’t see out of the smog. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen,

Auschwitz and others. One fact became quite evident to me.

Some of these names are ugly It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."

I feel the same today.  But they are ‘democratically’ elected    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out.

They were all complicit, remember. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?

Its not in their interest to tell them about it.  Any way they are busy pursuing their own interests.  They want to make lots of money to educate their kids, provide for their future.     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:

Thanks, these are great!     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.

Hitlers words used to do the same to me until I heard what he was saying.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class

Hitler had already notice that the Jews ‘constituted’ most of the capitalist class.  Marx hadn’t mentioned that they were Jews because he was one himself. Couldn’t see the forest for the trees so to speak. (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."

No.  After a while people gave up trying to get a word in.  Today it is relatively easy.       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

I could really get along with this guy.  Of course I’d have to be locked up with him in a cell to get fed up with him and tell him to shut up.  Instead, he wrote this book.  Had no one to talk to I guess. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."

In the form of ‘concentration’ camps and blitzkrieg.        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"

Happens everyday.  Glad to be post-modern (in formation society)        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."

Hitler said it baby.      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"

Only the ones feeding themselves on bribes and opportunistic profits.  As the people came to worship and give to their God, the traders, peddlers and other sordid types fleeced them.  If he tossed out all the Jews he would have had to leave himself.       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."

The facsists did the same. Sure is useful information, them jews Its time … read more »

Response:

Oops!  Almost stepped in a pile of Alex Vange. Steve

Did you have to re-post his entire article just to make that pathetic joke? Idiot. — altheim

Response:

The fact of the matter is that nobody even knows why the holocaust / holohoax took place but you can be certain that the media created it! Just take a look at any news paper back in those days. Jew hate was being spread like water on the beach, world wide! The best question to ask would be who controlled the news papers in the 40s, and I think you already answered that! Henry Ford ran his own personal Jew hate column in the Dearborn Press, and he was a freemason. If you didn’t know freemasonry is very much a Jewish instrument and has been for hundreds of years (Grand Lodge & Rothchild’s both in Britain) = [Controling center of freemasonry & controling center of high finance] There used to be a multibillion dollar banking family in Germany, the Warburgs, and from what I read in their biography they mentored the Rothchild family into the European banking business, which by the way has always been a "make war for money" business. Look around today, no Warburgs! They were, I might add, the only competitors of the Rothchilds (both families are Jewish). Consider one more detail and that is that GERMAN JEWS WERE SELECTED FOR SLAUGHTER. Why? Perhaps it was just a big game to destroy the Rothchild’s only competitor, the Warburgs? We also know, at least those of us with some sense, that leaders are nearly always selected NOT BY THE PEOPLE BUT BY BIG MONEY INTERESTS (I could site a hundred quotes here)! So where did Hitler come from, you tell me, but I doubt it was without some BIG FINANCIAL BACKING! Put all this together and you have Jews starting wars against other Jews for control of European finance and blaming it on Germans, most of whom by the way are not even blonde with blue eyes (Hitler himself had Black or dark hair)! No, what is happening here is a much more hieneous plan, which I’m affraid is being plotted NOT BY, BUT AGAINST blonde/red haired type people with blue eyes. Who is doing it? Well, I know Jews are involved (British and Parisian) but I don’t know which ones or why? I’m not necessarily a racist, but having brown hair and blue eyes and seeing what that means in the present day can only lead me to the conclusion that there are some racists OUT THERE AND THEY AREN’T COMMON PEOPLE! You don’t have to look much further than: *Pinky and the brain (blue eyed feminized) idiotic character on television  Chucky in child’s play being EVIL (Red hair, blue eyes) The names of the musician who play white music (all out of Britain) "Alice" Cooper, "Pink" Floyd, I’m sure you’ve noticed that most are either gay or have feminized names. Again, WHY? I know that homosexuality has been getting some BIG TIME financial backing, and the entertainment industry particularly seems to hire blonde males only if they are gay or stupid as shit. To show you just how bad they have done it, I’ve never met a blonde haired male who was as stupid as any of the blonde male characters they show on tv, without exception. So I conclude that they must be looking Real hard! It is especially difficult to defame a people when most of the inventiveness of the past century has come precisely from that people, William Shockley and transistors, John Postle and the internet, Bill Gates and PCs, the micro chip, etc. etc. etc. I could go on for days.  It seems every movie I see the criminal is ALWAYS BLONDE HAIRED WITH BLUE EYES! And there are so few REAL BLONDE males on the television that it makes you wonder where in hell the thousands of blonde females came from? It seems to me that if every blonde female had a black haired husband (like on TV) blondes would be gone in the next generation, but they are still here and they’ve been showing it like that for generations. It leads me to believe that what they show is not truth, but a suggestion aimed at CREATING A NEW TRUTH! All of these things lead me to believe that YES THERE ARE RACISTS OUT THERE, BUT THEY AREN’T BLONDE HAIRED, BLUE EYED, or as the media likes to clown with "WHITE GERMANICS", THEY ARE BLACK HAIRED, JEWS, AND PARISIANS! Take a look at these news groups, they flood them out just to keep people from being able to exchange the truth. 30,000 news groups and 25,000 of them are always empty. The white news groups are regularly flooded with spam to the point where the news group is unreadable with 10,000 messages. Who has the power to control that I ask? And across servers also because it is the same on Sprint, Bellsouth, AT&T, etc. across the board if they have a white news group it is flooded and nobody does anything about it! But if you flood a news group yourself they delete your messages and spam the shit out of you with warnings of crimes commited? Again who is behind it all? Regardless of hair, eye, color I know we both came from a similar historic leanage, after all Jews, Parisians, Italians,  Spanish, even Iranians all have distinctly european Caucasian features with only slight variations. You can see this by comparing any of them together with say an Oriental, or an African, both of whom are distinctly different. The Indians from America I believe have Caucasian/Oriental heritage. This being the case I can not figure out for the life of me why Black Haired, Brown Eyed Europeans have such great Hatred for Blonde Haired, Blue eyed Europeans that they have nearly wiped them off the face of the Earth and still have not had enough. Take a look at New York City compaired to Los Angeles! New York is an older City and has had Strong European influences over it for centuries. There are Very Few if any Blondes in New York, but Los Angeles on the other hand is nearly all blondes. It seems that the same media created extinction of blondes which is being perpetrated today has done a thorough job in New York already and is moving up and over across the USA from New York and Miami towards California! I’ve sat here in Fort Lauderdale and watched them make jokes about how stupid the "blonde", country type people from the mid west USA are on public television. They show them living their lives then they show a COW, etc. It’s criminal the way they slander the very country people who do most of the work of producing in this nation! I’ve been in Fort Lauderdale Florida now for two and a half years and I’ve been designing web pages and programming in Visual Basic for that entire time almost constantly (day and night). I have been programming entirely for a total of Ten years, yet when I go out to interviews seeing only back haired, brown eyed type europeans in the interview offices, even after two and a half years they still will not give me a job, not even for web page design! I’m learning Visual C++ now and let’s see if that makes a difference? But I don’t know how much longer I can live without any income, I don’t even have enough money to leave Florida! One time at an interview for a technical support position, can you believe it, the secretary told me after taking a test that I not only did very well, but I answered questions on the test that nobody has ever answered since they started giving the test, she was certain I would be hired, but when I went to the interview, seeing the Iranian looking male interviewer, I was not hired! More than just a little frustrated I tell the whole tale in news groups, but mind you I know many many more details than I could every hope to write in just 2 hours. Just remember that I’m NOT a racist, although, I’m proud of what I’m and will fight back if cornered, and I’m feeling cornered! — The Final Thesis On Human Life!" http://www.angelfire.com/fl/truthis/ Download The book in a DOS based program (with better charts) 227k http://members.xoom.com/GeoNav/truthis.zip Download personal web site browsing software, GeoNav: http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Breakers/1912/ James Allen Bressem

Response:

   If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf? [snip]

They do it (IMO) because they can’t afford to go against public opinion with an issue this emotive.  Sometimes they can make money out of being controversial and opposing popular belief, but not in this case. I never actually read Mein Kampf but the regime that resulted in ‘thirties Germany produced a society that Germany wanted (by and large and not counting German jews of course) and the same policies impemented worldwide would probably have had the same effect for each individual country.  There was never any suggestion that those policies were meant to encourage xenophobia *between* nations but were meant to foster a sense of pride in ones own racial identity which at the time also meant (and still is confused with) national identity. The fact is – or so it seems to me – there are more people worldwide who, for reasons of culture, religion, etc. actually think this is a good idea, as British Hindus, Moslems as well as Christians (not to mention British yobs) repeatedly demonstrate.  It is the minorities with an agenda of their own who squeal about ‘race’ and ‘colour’ in an attempt to trivialise an indigenous population’s understandable reaction to territorial instincts, perceived injustices and the alteration of their national character.  Governments legislate for racial harmony merely to keep the peace and with scant regard for the feelings of the peoples who spawned them.  The media (what this thread is all about) toe the line just to stay in business. So why attack the media? — altheim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oops!  Almost stepped in a pile of Alex Vange. Steve    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will

… read more »

Response:

Oops!  Almost stepped in a pile of Alex Vange. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in tha art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes.      "From time immemorial, however, the

… read more »

Response:

I believe that it is impossible to shade the fact that so many innocent people died, as a direct result of the Hitler Administration. imo — Life Does Not Teach Hate.  Humans Do. MindLands

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    If the media is not all horse manure then why are do they paint such a different picture of Hitler’s beliefs then what Hitler plainly wrote in Mein Kampf?    For example why can’t the media figure out why Hilter was against the Jews when this is in Mein Kampf:     "In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment  I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and  the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed  only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the  cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly  lauded there in order to become permanently  adamant on Jewish questions.  Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being  infected. It was worse that the Black Plague of long ago. And in what  mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the  lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic  products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far  that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth  directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection  we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought  to realize that for one Goethe, Nature may bring into existance ten  thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in  poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be  avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by  Nature to play this shameful part.         "And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen  people?         "I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the  fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result  of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had  hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a  thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.        "The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic  tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people  who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation- that fact could not be  gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my  favorite ‘World Press’, with that fact before my mind.        "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my respect for that  Press which I formerly admired. Its style became still more repellant and I  was forced to reject its ideas as entirely shallow and superficial. To  claim that in the presentation of facts and views its attitide was  impartial seemed to me to contain more falsehood than truth. The writers  were- Jews.        "Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed to me  now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand things which I  had formerly looked at in a different light."           "Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried to  read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in doing  so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning  something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous stuff.  From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to mind the  names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most of  them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic representatives in  the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions and  the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented  itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David, Adler,  Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was that  this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social Democratic  Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for months  past."    Hitler clearly believed that the Jews controlled the media and that they were behind Communism. Someone in the media must surely have been capable of figuring this out. So why aren’t they telling us about it? Why is the media deliberately deceptive?     Here are some more quotes from Mein Kampf that are the opposite of the impression we are given by the lying media:     " But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me.  Everything was disparaged-the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had heard that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeosie for the exploitation of the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterward; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.     "At first I remained silent; but that could not last very long."       "And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord."        "Was not the Press instrumental in bringing in a state of moral degradation among our people? Were not morals and public decency made to look ridiculous and classed as out-of-date and banal, until finally our people also became modernized?"        "It must be noted too that the attack on the dogmatic principles underlying ecclesiastical teaching increased steadily in violence. And yet this human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existance of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life."      "And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God"       "Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began gradually to control public life in its entirety."       Of religion he (the Jew) makes a mockery. Morality and decency are described as anti-quated prejudices"       "Anyhow, the Jew has attained the ends he desired. Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another to their hearts content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve."       "the Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance. So in our day he has succeeded again, this time by raising  ructions between the two German religious denominations while the foundations on which both rest are being eaten away and destroyed through the poison injected by the international and cosmopolitan Jew."       "The most devoted Protestant could stand side by side with the most devoted Catholic in our ranks"       "The National Socialist Movement must see to it that at least in our own country the mortal enemy is recognized and that the fight against him may be a beacon light pointing to a new and better period for other nations as well as showing the way of salvation for Aryan humanity in the struggle for its existance."        Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that the Jews tell big lies. The Jewish media took his words out of context and claimed that Hitler was in favor of big lies. This was in itself a big lie and proof that Hitler was right. Here is what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf and in context:      "But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsiblity for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had forseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsiblity for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to justice. All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world

… read more »

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Question:

Mr Henry’ What locations are you looking to cover? Robert Mason – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are looking for an Insurance Continuing Education Instructor. This instructor position is an off-site /out-sourced position. The canidate should have basic computer skills with word processing and email. The course instructor must meet at least one of the following instructor criteria: (1) Instructor is and has been in the practice of teaching insurance courses for at least the last three years and has the knowledge and experience in the subject the instructor will teach; (2) Instructor is and has been properly licensed as a licensee subject to continuing education under this act for at least five years; (3) Instructor is the holder of a professional designation recognized by the department which relates directly to the subject the instructor will teach; or (4) Instructor is or has been engaged in a recognized profession that is pertinent to the subject areas to be taught, including, but not limited to: licensed or certified medical professionals, Certified Public Accountants, and members of a state bar. If you are interested in this position please reply to this message for addition information. Lee Henry

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We are looking for an Insurance Continuing Education Instructor. This instructor position is an off-site /out-sourced position. The canidate should have basic computer skills with word processing and email. The course instructor must meet at least one of the following instructor criteria: (1) Instructor is and has been in the practice of teaching insurance courses for at least the last three years and has the knowledge and experience in the subject the instructor will teach; (2) Instructor is and has been properly licensed as a licensee subject to continuing education under this act for at least five years; (3) Instructor is the holder of a professional designation recognized by the department which relates directly to the subject the instructor will teach; or (4) Instructor is or has been engaged in a recognized profession that is pertinent to the subject areas to be taught, including, but not limited to: licensed or certified medical professionals, Certified Public Accountants, and members of a state bar. If you are interested in this position please reply to this message for addition information. Lee Henry

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Question:

Does anyone know where I can get some info on a good data extraction software package, primarily to be used in the audit function of a public accounting firm?

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Try these links: http://www.spaldingsoft.com/index.shtml http://www.codemicro.com/hl/PERSNC3956.html http://www.datajunction.com/ — Paul MacFarlane American Riviera Software http://www.business-plaza.com remove *SPAMLESS* from reply address – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I can get some info on a good data extraction software package, primarily to be used in the audit function of a public accounting firm?

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Does anyone know where I can get some info on a good data extraction software package, primarily to be used in the audit function of a public accounting firm?

Depends on what you want to extract from, but I use Data Junction heavily — not for audit work, but for database conversion.  Also, they make a product I couldn’t live without, called Cambio.  Before it, I could extract almost anything I wanted with Unix utilities sed and grep.  But Cambio offers 10 times the flexibility to grab stuff out of reports and stick it into a database.  You ought to talk to the Data Junction people.  Somewhere in Austin, Texas, I think… David

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I use Microsoft Access for this. It will read ODBC files, in particular btrieve which is/was the database engine for several mid range accounting packages. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I can get some info on a good data extraction software package, primarily to be used in the audit function of a public accounting firm?

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Question:

I am a user as well as a reseller for them. In my opinion there are much better solutions.  The functionality is quite limited, and the performance is horribly slow. The only strong point in my opinion is they have over 200 reports! To sum it up, if you can afford more and have a real business to run, don’t buy it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I posted to this group several days ago asking about accounting packages with a programmatic interface to/from Access or VB. Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses. One suggestion was "Yes! I Can Run My Business" by Database Creations, formerly Cary Prague Software. It is written in Access, includes source code, and is very affordable. At the moment, this is the package I am considering using. Does anybody have experience with it (good or bad) that they would like to share? Thanks in advance for any help, -Scott Lewis

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I am a user as well as a reseller for them. In my opinion there are much better solutions.  The functionality is quite limited, and the performance is horribly slow.

Thanks for your candid report, can you provide just a little more info? 1.  How many rows of transactions are in the database, 2.  Are you running a Pentium or Pentium II?   3.  What version of Access is this, Access 97?  is it Jet 3. or 3.5? 4.  Are you running Win95 or WinNT? I find the Jet 3.5 database very snappy on NT4.0 with a Pentium Pro chip and lots of RAM.   However, it certainly is possible to load down a program if you keep too much in memory, expecially in Win95.   Win95 basically chokes on applications running over 32 megs and it doesnt matter how many SIMMSs you buy…and there are lots of PII and P-Pro motherboards out there for a couple hundred dollars.  ie. less than the cost of a QBpro license…. Todd

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One suggestion was "Yes! I Can Run My Business" by Database Creations, formerly Cary Prague Software. It is written in Access, includes source code, and is very affordable. At the moment, this is the package I am considering using. Does anybody have experience with it (good or bad) that they would like to share?

Do a search in www.dejanews.com and look for the comments. Tony —- Message posted to newsgroup and emailed. Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant The Year 2000 crisis: Will my parents or your grand parents still be receiving their pension in January, 2000?  See http://www.granite.ab.ca/year2000 Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

Response:

Hi, I posted to this group several days ago asking about accounting packages with a programmatic interface to/from Access or VB. Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses. One suggestion was "Yes! I Can Run My Business" by Database Creations, formerly Cary Prague Software. It is written in Access, includes source code, and is very affordable. At the moment, this is the package I am considering using. Does anybody have experience with it (good or bad) that they would like to share? Thanks in advance for any help, -Scott Lewis

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Question:

This takes place in Hawaii….. Scenario:  Submitted application for auto insurance…quoted $198 for 6-month policy…agreed to it and paid $198 by check.  Three weeks later, received notice of surcharge of $175 based on wife’s driving history.  Total now for 6-month policy is $373.  Three weeks after that, received yet another notice of surcharge adding $3,548 toward the 6-month policy.  Total now is $3,921 for 6-month policy (or $7,842 for a year of liability-only auto insurance – no collision/comprehensive coverage).  I immediately went to the insurance company to inquire into the huge premium increase, and when told that it was NOT an error, I immediately cancelled my insurance policy citing that it was ridiculous and that I could rent a car from a rental agency and take out the required coverage for less than what I’m paying just for basic insurance for my OWN car. Two years later: I’m being contacted by a collection agency wanting $1,578 for the length of time (6 weeks) that I had the insurance (they cited the effective date of the surcharges as the date that I took out the policy (24 February 1994) even though the surcharges were dated 21 March and 11 April, respectively — 3 and 6 weeks into the policy coverage), plus they want an additional $344.21 for interest (total demanded: $1922.21). Being that I already paid $198 and they wanted an additional $1,578, this bring the rate to $1,776 for 6 WEEKS of coverage (or $299 per week)! My question is: Do I have a case against this insurance company for providing one quote, receiving my business, then raising the premium to a ridiculous level and making it retroactive 6 weeks prior?  Had I been quoted that amount ($3,921) for a 6-month policy at the very beginning, I’d have certainly taken my business elsewhere!  Is the practice of adding surcharges and backdating them a legal practice, or should I feel comfortable fighting this case in court? Many thanks to any responders.  Please respond via e-mail only. Richard E Sgrignoli

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 Nice critique of my post!  I perhaps overstated the conservative side.

Not to worry.  I probably overstated the risk taking side in my original post. Truth, of course, generally lies somewhere between the extremes.  I have no problem with risk being taken when rewards are balanced.

I’m not sure what you mean by balanced.  If you mean in terms of being balanced against a comprehensive asset allocation structure, risking only that the client can afford to lose without having to go rooting in garbage cans (OK, bit of an exageration here), I couldn’t agree more.  If you mean balanced in the sense of the higher the risk the greater the potential gain, yes.  I wish I know how to do it any other way.  But, don’t we all??   I do  not consider the stock market to be anything more than it is – a daily  auction of securities in which the price fluctuates with expectations of  numerous factors.

With one proviso, that the economy will continue to expand, and the overall market will, therefor, continue to trend upward.  Barring, of course, permanent disaster such as being conquered by Cuba, or Bill C staying in office. (Yuk)   Most of my clients are young and I sell a lot more  term than WL or interest sensitive.  I try to get them to get in the  habit of saving something – anything – but save something every month.  I had customers who lost some pretty heavy money (as a percentage of  their total net assets) in the very late 70s and early 80s.  To say it  did not affect me would be a lie. Every one of them would have made  generous returns had they stuck it out or rather been able to stick it  out.  They lost because they did not have balance and were afraid to  stay any longer.  They bailed out at the time that they should have been  buying, but no one knew when the bottom would be reached.

Never underestimate the ability of people to shoot themselves in the foot. Risk tolerance is always a factor.  Somewhere there is a balance between necessary and unecessary risk.  When you are down in the market, toughing it out is a necessary risk.  Selling is certain loss.  Risk vs reward is OK. Avoiding risk in order to accept an absolutely certain loss is not.   That’s  another story – I had not sold them those funds – they were orphan  clients.  Perhaps I’ve been too strong in my support for safety – time  will tell

I cannot judge that as I know none of your clients.  Your post I took to be a rebuttal of a post you interpreted as too strongly supporting a too risky approach.  Again, as you say, balance is the answer.   BTW my primary business is personal lines P&C. I am curious  to know what kind of expense loads are commonly being placed on the VULs  now.

Well, one of the VULs I currently sell has a front load of 3.5%.  They also collect 2.5% state premium tax, for a total front load of 6%.  One time setting up charges (my term, for simplicity’s sake)  may run as high as $50.00.  A management fee taken out of the cash value fund runs between 1% and 1.8%, depending upon the fund.  The insurance is about as cheap as you can buy, being Annual Renewable Term, and declining in face value month-by-month as the fund grows.  Does this mean the fund has to perform pretty well to offset those costs?  Yup!  But among those funds are Janus’ IDEX Growth II, Fred Alger’s Small Cap Appreciation and American Capitol’s Mid Cap.  I’ll let you look ‘em up.  In addition, the loans against the CV are net interest free, as well as free of income tax.  Index performance will do very nicely, thank you.   What I like in the ULs I’ve seen are the monthly insurance costs  expressed as such.  What I seldom see explained to clients is the  "expected improvement of mortality" that is often illustrated.

Most VULs have a guaranteed mortality that cannot be exceeded.  I thought ULs did too.  Have I misunderstood your comment??   It may  be no worse than anticipated dividends often illustrated with mutual WL  policies but experience with the better companies indicates that they  usually err on the side of safety.  I’m sure that this is not  universally true any more than big UL players overstate their mortality  figures but I read more about the excesses on the UL side.  I also have  never seen UL track (under option B) favorably against a good mutual  plan when premiums were equal.  I should perhaps have been more  definitive on the interest sensitive side since some products are more  predictible than others.  I like to make my proposals from a base of  guaranteed outcomes first with reasonable expectations of whatever the  current and somewhere in between may end up.  APL addresses the premium  paying flexibility needed in most cases. Did I leave anything out?  Rob

How about a VUL that has a fixed subaccount, allowing the client to balance his risk/reward ratio to his liking???

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have not answered my question about taking out a second mortgage on one’s house.  Isn’t that borrowing you own money, by your reasoning? Food for thought.  Rob Rob, Taking out a second mortgage is not borrowing your own money. A second mortgage uses  the equity in your home as collateral againt the money you do borrow. In a cash value policy, you have paid the premium. Part of the premium goes into the  so-called savings. So you pay for insurance, and a form of savings with one premium. Another point, you really never know what the cost of the insurance portion  actually is. Also, after several years (typically 1-5 years) when you actually show a value for the savings portion, you must pay interest on any money taken out. This is the policy loan. So my question is… Why would you save money this way? when you could easily save in some other investment, or account, and not pay interest to use your money if you needed to. Thanks, Alan.

As stated previously, the "cash Value" inside of any insurance policy, be it term (many term policies are required by law to have same but usually only when the term plan exceeds 25 years), whole life, universal life, or whatever, the values do not belong to the policyholder – they belong to the company.  The policies clearly state such!  You know this.  The reason that we are seeing term plans of less than 25 years is so that the companies do not have to return money to the policyholder in the event that he wishes to dump the policy.  The companies (collectivly) have these values in their balance sheets but are not required to disclose the presence of same to the policyholder.  The fact that such is not disclosed to the client does not mean that it does not exist, nor does it mean that a company will not reap a windfall proffit in the event of a policy lapse.  Any term policy other than annual renewable term contains hidden cash values which the companies retain. "Cash value" policies are required to contain nonforfieture clauses because they ae anticipated, in design, to persist beyond 25 years – regardless of the expected premium paying period, which could be as short as one payment.  These contracts obligate the insurer to lend the OWNER of the policy amounts up to (usually) 95% of the nonforfieture value at a contractual rate of interest.  THE CASH VALUE IN ANY POLICY BELONGS TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY UNTIL THE OWNER OF THE POLICY RELEASES (in whole or in part) THE COMPANY FROM THE OBLIGATION OF HONORING (again in whole or part) A DEATH CLAIM. You cannot release the market value of a home (whether paid in or as a result of valuation inflation) without borrowing or selling (surrendering) the property!   I previously used an illustration of a certificate of deposit that has been lost in the shuffle somewhere.  We all could argue the merits, or lack therof for this type of investment, but they seem to remain popular with large numbers of investors.  If you will read a CD contract, you will find that the bank has a legal right to force you to leave the money on deposit for the contractual term.  Most bank will let you bail out if you are willing accept a penalty.  In a lot of cases, when a depositor needs cash, they usually are faced with a decision – take the penalty hit, or borrow, pledging the CD as collateral.  In the latter event, using the reasoning often espoused by BTID crowd, is this CD owner paying interest on his "own" money.  NO! NO! NO!  He is not.  By contract, the money belongs to the bank until maturity!  Telling a potential policyholder that he is borrowing his own money is dishonest. I’m tired of expaining this to people.  It does not make any real difference what anyone buys as long as they buy enough to cover their loss.  If everyone used the same reasoning being argued about the "two types" of life insurance in the purchase of automobiles, we would have a choice of Metros and Fleetwoods which we all know is BS!       When I die, I want to go like my grandpa…in my sleep.  Not screaming … like all the passengers in his car. Rob

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I read your article about Primeamerica.  If I am not mistaken, they group was previously owned by AL Williams.  AL Williams is in fact bad news and he is prevented from doing business in several states. He is also being sued in several states and that organization is certainly a pyramid scheme. Jim Barbieri

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Wait until they tell you about their wonderful life insurance plans! As opposed to the great product known as "cash-value"?

I would say as apposed to other term policies.  There are many term policies that are not as good as Primericas, BUT . . . . there are many other term policies that are better and far cheaper than Primerica’s.  So that should give you some idea where Primerica is with regards to their term products. Keep your hand clutched tightly around your wallets folks.  You’re better off contacting your nearest Amway distributor about how YOU can cash in on the "easy" multi-level marketing business, at least they are more honest about it.  Rob Multi-level marketing, that’s a good one.  Compare a full line financial services company to one that sells stuff from a catalog! And remember the only people that get rich in MLM are the ones that in at the beginning. Only a small % of people in MLM actually earn enough to support themselves, if they make any money at all it is usually only extra income. I assume that you have "proof" of you allegations?  Were you hired by Primerica at one time?  Are you in the insurance industry?  Or are you just going by some rumor that you overheard?

Chad, one thing you can be CERTAIN about . . . Primerica IS a MLM company just as are many other successful legitimate companies.  There is no reason to be defensive about this fact.  Just find out how an RVP of Primerica gets paid and it’s not hard to see how the MLM works for Primerica.  Is there any wonder why recruit, recruit, recruit is such an important thing for Primarica?  AND, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that.  There is certainly a difference between MLM and a pyramid scheme.  Though it’s hard to distinguish on the surface (in my opinion, anyway). Retards, Ted T. Roberts Independent Insurance Broker/Financial Planner

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 Much as I oppose the damage I see Primerica doing  Damage to the cash-value industry!

I’ll buy that.  Damage by parroting half truths, untruths, and misconceptions that they got from their uplines.  The dangers of getting all your information from one source, especially one that is self serving, are obvious.  It is news to me that Primerica  is prevented from doing business in several states.  Could you be more  specific.  Primerica is not, and has never been banned from doing business in any  state!

OK, as I said, it was news to me.   Secondly, Primerica is not a pyramid scheme.  By definition, pyramid schemes are illegal, and have no product.  Primerica  is certainly legal and they do have products.  Primerica is similiar to several sales organizations. Real estate, auto  dealers ect.

Similar is some respects.  Quite different in others. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t object to those differences.  Admittedly, their term  insurance  is quite expensive, and they sell a lot of their in-house Common Sense  Trust  fund (CST) which, on average, doesn’t perform with the S & P 500 and has  the  highest front load allowed by law (8.5%).  The fact that they are being  sued  in several states puts them in the same boat with Pru and others.  Expensive compared to what? Which CST fund are you refering to?  What states is PFS being sued?

Common Sense Trust, Growth, your best performing CST fund.  Look it up in Morningstar, Forbes, Barron’s.  The front load IS 8.5%, the highest allowed by law.  Your CST II funds are NOT front loaded, they have back loads and 12b! fees totalling 6% or more.  This is worse, it costs a lot more.  I did not assert that they were being suid, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were. I was responding to a post that I feel damned PFS for all the wrong reasons.  (snip) here’s a little information about them. (snipped, a lot of my comments)  but I question the morality of that approach.  You question the morality of the approach? I question the morality of an  agent selling  cash value for the sake of a higher commision check,  instead of selling based on the clients needs!

So do I!  So do we all!!  Your attempts to take the moral high ground are not effective.  You assert that ALL cash value insurance is a rip off, and that anyone who sells it does so only because of the commission, totally without regard to the needs of the client.  Your attacks against the morals of all who disagree with you cast doubt upon your own "high moral standards".  You are incredibly naive, very misinformed, or lacking in any interest in the truth.    Their Network Marketing approach works.  You mean multi level sales.

Is there a difference??  In 1991, when Primerica bought out  the coach (A. L. himself) they changed the pay plan and people left  them in droves.  I understand they lost 70% of their business in one  year.  They’re fighting back, but I don’t think they’ll ever approach  their  former level.  Just keep your eyes open, and do your homework. Even Greate things will  happen with PFS!

What homework do you suggest that I do???   I am certainly willing to keep my eyes open.  I’ll even agree that vast numbers of part time newbies can cause a lot of term sales to be made.  I don’t agree that that is necessarily in the best interest of the majority of your clients, however.   My data is over a year  old, but that data indicated that only 11% of all Primerica transactions  concerned mutual funds.  Your information is definitely "Old"

So enlighten us, sir.  What percentage of sales IS for mutual funds?? 15%? 25%?  You mean you’re only hurting 75% of your clients, who end up with NO insurance, and NO cash/investment? (snip)    I can only conclude from the above, that approximately 89% OF  PRIMERICA’S CLIENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER  OFF HAD THEY NEVER DONE BUSINESS WITH PRIMERICA.  The statements above are just not supported by any FACTS.

So, give us some FACTS to work with, sir.  How many of your PFS clients buy term and invest the difference, and how many buy term and blow the difference??  Do you help more than you hurt??  What are the figures, huh?????  Bland assertions and unqualified denials just don’t cut the mustard.  (snip)   CST with it’s relatively poor performance and very  high front load.  CST has strong performance. Are you refering to any particular fund?

"CST has strong performance."  You keep making totally unsupported statements.  Look at Morningstar (assuming you have any upline who either makes enough or cares enough to buy it), Forbes, Barron’s, etc. The BEST Common Sense Trust fund, the Growth fund, has historically never been able to keep  AVERAGE performance since inception of 12%.  LOOK IT UP.  Inform YOURSELF, before you continue your holy war.  This is NOT strong performance.  It is, by definition, average at best. slightly below average over time.  (snip).. PFS complies with all of the laws governing this business!

Perhaps.  I have heard non securities licensed pfs agents talking about your mutual funds and expounding upon the benefits of BTID.  Do YOU have a securities license??  Should YOU be telling us that CST has strong performance.  You OBVIOUSLY do not know what you’re talking about when you make that statement.  I suspect that you have no securities license, or you wouldn’t make that statement.  It is amusing that, having contributed to changing the industry,  new products that partially resulted from Primerica’s (A L WMS,  actually) activities, now outperform BTID for many people.  WHO?  I refer to Variable Universal Life that has cheaper insurance  False, VUL – the cost of insurance goes up every year!

So does the cost of term.  You merely overcharge for the first years (as does everybody) and undercharge in later years.  Cash value insurance actually does the same, it’s just that they use a longer period of time (life).  However, your comment concerning the cost of insurance in VUL shows your ignorance.  This is rather amusing, given your protestations concerning your mission to educate the public.  In one sense, the cost of insurance does go up every year, as it does with your term.  However the cost to the client does not.  That is because VUL actually does what you claim to do for your clients (and only do for some 11%) and that is to help the client become self insuring.  As the cash value goes up, the amount of insurance that the client buys goes down.  This means that the amount of premium that goes to the insurance costs and the amount that goes to the fund remains essentially constant.  You should really inform yourself about these products before you start "educating" your clients, much less advertise your lack of understanding on this newsgroup. t/    as good or better performance than most mutual funds Primerica  sells, tax deferred growth, and income tax free income in the  form of loans with little or no net interest.  So, having changed  the industry, Primerica can no longer compete with the results  of that change.  Totally false! Tell me why VUL does not qualify for an IRA?  The fact is that all cash value policies, the cash value is owned by the  company and not the person contributing. WHY?

You give me so much amunition that I hardly know what to shoot down first.  Why ever would you want to qualify VUL for an IRA?? You already have tax deferred growth and income tax free income from the VUL.  The benefits of income tax free income far exceed, for many people, the benefits of tax deferred contributions.  It would be nice to get all three , (tax deduction, tax deferred growth, and income tax free money out) but ya just can’t do that.  Why doesn’t it qualify?? Because that’s the way the law reads.  (You sure you have a securities license???)  You think the cash value is owned by the company, instead of the client??  You probably think that the company keeps the cash value and just pays the inurance too, don’t you???  This is another of the misconceptions with which pfs "educates" their clients.  As the cash value increases, the amount of insurance bought decreases.  (This, incedentally, is how WL works as well as VUL.  I suggest you buy Ben Baldwin’s THE NEW LIFE INSURANCE INVESTMENT ADVISOR, and READ it!!)  So, if the client started out with $200K of insurance, when he gets to the point that he has $100K of cash value, he is only paying for, and only has, $100K of insurance.  HOT FLASH!!!  His death benefit is still $200K, BUT NOT BECAUSE THE INSURANCE KEEPS THE CASH VALUE!! You just don’t understand life insurance.  Now, with VUL, when the cash value exceeds $200K, the IRS requires (in order for this to remain a valid life contract) that some small amount of insurance above and beyond the cash value be maintained.  (Perhaps 10% above)  So, a VUL client with $300K cash value not only gets the $300K paid to the beneficiary, an additional (approx) $30K of insurance is paid.  So, in VUL, the company does NOT keep the cash value and just pay the insurance. In fact, it doesn’t really do that in whole life either. That’s just more of the half truths the pfs agents preach. Oh, by the way.  The above comments about VUL, cash value and death benefit all addressed VUL, Option A.  In Option B, the amount of insurance above the cash value remains constant.  Yes, this costs more, but the client with $100K in cash value would have, as a death benefit, the $200K of insurance and the $100K of cash value paid out to the beneficiary.  Both in the case of Option A, and in Option B, the entire amount is treated by the IRS as an income tax free death benefit.  Estat taxe provisions

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 Stick to the facts please.  A.L.S.  Alan L. Sheffield

Good advise.  You should try it.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Response to SKIBUM: You are making me laugh! VUL is a rip off!! Why was it invented? Please send me the name of the person who has the kind of cash as you have stated, in a VUL policy. ($300K) You act as though a sales charge is bad. You must be more informed on expenses! Why would you ever suggest VUL and not an IRA account, especially in a mutual fund? How do you explain where the cash-value in the first several years in any cash-value plan? Including VUL. I might remind you that you pay taxes on your money only once. So how is VUL a tax advantage? Please educate me. As far as premiums. VUL never goes up? Yes it does. The unpaid portions of the premiums come from the cash value, right. ALL cash value insurance is a form of TERM bundled with a savings account which has some very, very strange banking rules. Oh yea, the company always owns the cash value portion, this is why you must pay interest on a so-called policy loan ( Why borrow your own money???) Send more laughs! A.L.S. Alan L. Sheffield

This kind of discussion seems to go on and on forever but I’m going to inject something regarding taxes.  For what it is worth, and it varies from plan to plan, because a cash value plan is a single contract, the charges for the pure insurance are considered as part of the basis for tax purposes.  In a cashout situation, the p/h would get to deduct all of his costs before any gain is calculated.   Alan, you sent me something that was probably intended for skibum, or did you cc me? You have not answered my question about taking out a second mortgage on one’s house.  Isn’t that borrowing you own money, by your reasoning? Food for thought.  Rob

Response:

The first thing you need to do is contact the insurance company and find out exactly what the reasons were that they increased your premium so much. (Write them down verbatum or ask them for a letter detailing the reason for the misquote.) Once you have that information then we can address the situation.

Response:

Response to SKIBUM: You are making me laugh! VUL is a rip off!! Why was it invented? Please send me the name of the person who has the kind of cash as you have stated, in a VUL policy. ($300K) You act as though a sales charge is bad. You must be more informed on expenses! Why would you ever suggest VUL and not an IRA account, especially in a mutual fund? How do you explain where the cash-value in the first several years in any cash-value plan? Including VUL. I might remind you that you pay taxes on your money only once. So how is VUL a tax advantage? Please educate me. As far as premiums. VUL never goes up? Yes it does. The unpaid portions of the premiums come from the cash value, right. ALL cash value insurance is a form of TERM bundled with a savings account which has some very, very strange banking rules. Oh yea, the company always owns the cash value portion, this is why you must pay interest on a so-called policy loan ( Why borrow your own money???) Send more laughs! A.L.S. Alan L. Sheffield

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(snipped, long discourse concerning my views on Primerica)  Thanks for a well thought out article, even though I do not agree with  all that you have said. (I for one, find variable UL horrible.)  I am  not a big fan of UL period.  Even though I feel that many of its  elements are a little more honest than others.

Horrible??  Some VULs have a fixed, guaranteed subaccount in addition to the equity and bond based funds.  A client can choose any amount, including all (which rather defeats the purpose) of his money into that fixed account.  The client can choose a mix of fixed, conservative, middle and aggressive investment approaches, according to desire. What, by the way, do you have against flexible premium (UL) insurance?? Would you expand upon that, please??  Also, "a little more honest than others"??  Than what others, and in what way?     (snip)   What is true, is that vast numbers of  people are now investing directly or indirectly in the stock market.  Perhaps there is enough $ in the pipeline to drive the stock market to  10,000.

This is a Zero Sum game???  But in time it will slow up.

That, of course, is the only guarantee in the market.  Once the this top is reached,

What makes you think there is such a thing as a "top"?  will the "smart money" still be in the market?  Hell no!  

Wrong, you can make money on a down market too. The smart  money will be making money on shorts!  Whose customers are going to get  soaked?  Not mine!  Think it can’t happen?  Read history!  Think it  can’t happen again?  Read more history!

I think you need to read the history.  EVEN INCLUDING 1929, the average performance/gain of the stock market as a whole has been 10.3% (the last time I checked)  What you forget with your zero sum game/top/ etc, thinking is that the American economy is expanding.  There is no set amount of wealth, that we’re going to run out of.  The Club of Rome and other Malthusians forgot technology in their gloomy preditions of total collapse and the depletion of all natural recourses.  Our oil reserves are greater today than at the time of the Club of Rome predictions….better location….better extraction techniques,,, better efficiency of oil utilizations…..  Yes, the market WILL go down, but it will also go up, as long as we have an expanding economy.   This is a dangerous time.  There is so much optimism that even Joe Lunchbucket thinks he can make  money in the markets, by relying on fund managers

Mutual funds, measured by theS & P 500 have averaged 12% gain for over 60 years.  Ya don’t loose money by buying at the wrong time.  Ya loose it by selling.  And the reason that so many people went broke in 1929 is that they had bought on margin, and couldn’t cover the margin.  Read your history.   Fund managers (good  ones too) were around in October of 1928.  Did they get their investors  out?

No, they held on and made money after the market uptrended.   NO!  Term insurance salesmen were hating life in the 1930s during  the deflation.  Even the old "weekly premium" guys looked like heros  compared to the BTID crowd.  Anyone with a "lousy" whole life policy was  holding gold!  I have no doubt that we will see another collapse, and I  do not want my client’s life insurance chestnuts in the fire when it  comes.  What the heck happened to good old fashioned caution and laying  a foundation of liquidity before putting money at risk?

Yeah.  And the thousands who had been paying premiums to First Executive, et. al. sure are happy, right???  So, you think that having your money spread over hundreds of companies in a mutual fund is horrible compared to haveing it all in one insurance company??  I’d agree that having all your money in the market is a bad idea.  I also assert that having all your money in a fixed investment like whole life (or CDs for that matter) is planned poverty.  The idea of laying a foundation of liquidity before putting money at risk is still alive and well.  No one has asserted anything to the contrary…..at least I didn’t.  However WL is no more the only (or even best, necessarily) foundation of that liquidity, than VUL is the only way to risk for possible gain.  I think you took my comments that VUL can, sometimes, outperform BTID (It is just another way to BTID) to be an attack on WL.  I meant no such attack.  My statement was that AS AN INVESTMENT, BTID outperformed WL.  Yes, it is possible to buy very expensive term and poor, highly loaded investments.  But, still, as investments go, WL doesn’t give a very good ROI.  Neither do CDs.  Ya pays fer security, and if that’s what you’re after, well and good.  I’m all for it!!  BTID is a concept that has been around for longer than either of us has  been on the planet.  The problem with it is that customers more often  than not BTSD (buy term and spend the difference).

I believe I said that.  My point was that only some 11% of Primerica’s customers actually invested.  BTW, PFS types out there, If my figures are wrong, I’d be delighted to hear from you.  Please, some supporting documentation, or source of your figures.  No more RDS (Rectal Data Storage) data please.  Spurious attacks on my person and on the industry can left out too.  DATA please….just the facts. Traditional "whole  life" can be and still is a good purchase in most of the clients I see  (sooner or later).

I won’t dispute that.  The same can be said for interest sensitive whole  life.

You like interest sensitive whole life, but you don’t like UL???  Again, it is the flexible premiums you object to??  I think I missed something  I see people being sold the variable product who have NO savings  for short term  financial needs

I also see those same people being sold whole life.  What’s your point? You said you thought VUL was horrible, now, it seems to me, that you object to the timing of the sale????  I would rather hand them the toll free  number for Vangard and advise them to look into Vangard’s index funds  and be their own investment advisor.

For lots of folks, that’s not a bad idea.  I, on the other hand, would rather sell them those mutual funds, since that’s what I do.  I can say from experience that the  old participating WL saved my agency when Bush had us involved in desert  storm and Norfolk was like a ghost town. (The funds I own were not doing  so hot at the time.)  The paid up additional insurance that the  dividends had purchased kept my own program from failing.

A well funded VUL can achieve the same thing.  If you stop the premiums too soon, of course, not.  That’s one of the main risks of VUL, to which I have alluded in prior posts.    (snip) no one , currently makes it economically rewarding enough for  bright people to see a career in our field.

Well, that is one of the main argument that the MLMers use to support the MLM concept.  It IS possible in an MLM, just damn unlikely.  Maybe one in 10,000 MLMers make really big bucks, but there are those who do.  Their point is that no employees make that kind of money.  Damn few insurance salesmen either.  What’s the natinal average, 1 sale a week and maybe $30K?  I find little to like about MLM because I have never seen a MLM plan  that was not conceived on the idea that the "real" money is made off the  sales of "downline" people and not off personal production which I think  is where it has to be. I don’t think we disagree on this one.

Well, actually we don’t agree.  You’ve described every sales organization I ever saw.  Do the sales managers, general manager, and owner of your local Ford dealer operate any differently??  Does your insurance company?? The whole concept of "sales management" is that the manager "facilitates" and the salesmen sell.  I don’t see any difference.  My major objection to most MLM organizations is that they sell things to each other at different prices.  You have a whole heirarchy of dealers, promoters, executives, super stars, whatever, recuriting "newbies".  The idea is that they sell the "newbie" his "stock" of vitamens, filters, whatever, and everybody up the line gets a cut of that wholesale transaction.  In the unlikely event that the newbie retails his stock to the public, nobody makes a dime, except the newbie.  So, where’s the "upline" incentive to help the newbie retail his product????  No, they might help him wholesale to more newbies, but nobody cares if he retails.  Some 80 to 85% never order any more stock. So, everybody is out looking for new newbies to make those wholesale transactions that are the way they get paid.  The vast majority of MLM "dealers" are not dealers, they are customers, they just haven’t figured that out.  BTW, bringing out new products is a good way to get more money out of all those dealer/customers, too.  That’s my objection to standard MLM.  As practiced by Primerica, I don’t object to the structure. I do object to the fact that thousands of untrained, brainwashed, part time agents, most of whom last only a few months (if that) are unleashed upon an unwary public by that method.  Their "one size fits all" philosophy may be easy to grasp, in a superficial way, but it hurts a lot more people than it helps, as I said in my earlier post.  It sounds cynical, but I think too many of the companies are run by  lawyers and bean counters who have never sold a policy to anyone (many  would consider it beneath them and hold their sales force in contempt)  and have no concept what goes on in the "field"

Which is, by the way, essentially, the same argument you used against MLM.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I don’t mean to pound on you.  Based upon your response, you are the  only other responder (that I have seen) to this forum who actually  showed some real knowledge of our business and some experience.  We both

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This takes place in Hawaii….. Scenario:  Submitted application for auto insurance…quoted $198 for 6-month policy…agreed to it and paid $198 by check.  Three weeks later, Don’t forget the obvious choices of the Insurance Commissioner and the Better Business Bureau for your area.  Also, I have heard that Primerica Financial Services now has Auto Insurance at very reasonable rates.  They may be in your area….just look them up and contact them.  I have enjoyed doing business with them for years. – Brian Shoop What a joke!  The average career of a Primerica "insurance expert" is about 30 days!  It takes about that long for them to be exposed to the real world – which is usually just after they have alienated every friend and family member they have trying to get them to buy into the stupid pyramid scheme (make lots of money off someone else even more stupid than you are).  

So I guess that Prudential, Merill Lynch, Century 21, and any other Financial Service, Insurance, or Real Estate office is a pyramid scheme as well?  Apparently you have no idea how the "real world" works.  Primerica runs its offices the same way as anyone else, with one exception, they do not advertise in the newspaper for job openings.  They hire based on personal recommendations.  BTW, if someone is not interested then they are not interested, the office I was contacted by does not try to pressure people. For your information a pyramid is when you give money to someone and do not get anything in return.  It is only a pyramid when no product, service, or information is given in return for the money. Wait until they tell you about their wonderful life insurance plans!

As opposed to the great product known as "cash-value"? Keep your hand clutched tightly around your wallets folks.  You’re better off contacting your nearest Amway distributor about how YOU can cash in on the "easy" multi-level marketing business, at least they are more honest about it.  Rob

Multi-level marketing, that’s a good one.  Compare a full line financial services company to one that sells stuff from a catalog! And remember the only people that get rich in MLM are the ones that in at the beginning. Only a small % of people in MLM actually earn enough to support themselves, if they make any money at all it is usually only extra income. I assume that you have "proof" of you allegations?  Were you hired by Primerica at one time?  Are you in the insurance industry?  Or are you just going by some rumor that you overheard? —

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 I read your article about Primeamerica.  If I am not mistaken, they group  was previously owned by AL Williams.  AL Williams is in fact bad news and  he is prevented from doing business in several states. He is also being  sued in several states and that organization is certainly a pyramid  scheme.  Jim Barbieri

Much as I oppose the damage I see Primerica doing, I have to take exception to a couple of your comments.  It is news to me that Primerica is prevented from doing business in several states.  Could you be more specific.  If you’re right, it’s good amunition.  If you’re wrong, you shouldn’t be saying it on the open net.  Secondly, Primerica is not a pyramid scheme. By definition, pyramid schemes are illegal, and have no product.  Primerica is certainly legal and they do have products.  Admittedly, their term insurance is quite expensive, and they sell a lot of their in-house Common Sense Trust fund (CST) which, on average, doesn’t perform with the S & P 500 and has the highest front load allowed by law (8.5%).  The fact that they are being sued in several states puts them in the same boat with Pru and others. I am not, nor have I ever been (nor will I) a Primerica agent.  However, as I understand it, here’s a little information about them. A L WMS began in the ’70s, pushing the undenyable position that buy term and investing the difference provided more insurance coverage and greater investment performance than did traditional Whole Life (WL), still does, for that matter.  They were quite successful and became the largest seller of term insurance in the world.  They were, quite literally, a driving force in changing the industry.  Because they tended to specialize in replacing already extant WL, usually calling it a ripoff and questioning the morals of the agent who originally sold it, they made a lot of enemies.  Their tactics may have been legal, but I question the morality of that approach. Their Network Marketing approach works.  Much as we deplore such organizations as AMWAY, et. al. many of them are mutli billion dollar enterprizes.  Perhaps the individual agent most often fails to make any money, to speak of, as a marketing strategy Network Marketing has become the strategy of the 90s and very many Fortune 500 companies are lineing up to get into it.  At one time A L WMS had over 200,000 agents, 35,000 of which also had securities licenses.  (There-in lies a problem that I will address later).  In 1991, when Primerica bought out the coach (A. L. himself) they changed the pay plan and people left them in droves.  I understand they lost 70% of their business in one year.  They’re fighting back, but I don’t think they’ll ever approach their former level. Back to the problem I mentioned above.  Only 35K out of 200K had securities licenses.  That’s what, 17 and a half percent?  Now, with 200 thousand people (most part time and ill trained) out preaching the benefits of buy term, invest the difference (BTID) and only 35,000 prepared to sell the investment, guess what happens.  Right!! A lot more term got sold than did mutual funds.  My data is over a year old, but that data indicated that only 11% of all Primerica transactions concerned mutual funds.   Given that Primerica specializes in replacing WL, then we see that the following happens.         1.  The client already posesses a WL policy that is permanent insurance with a cash value (arguably low, but present)         2.  89% replace that permanent, cash value with term only.         3.  15, 20, or 25 years later (depending upon the length of the term contract) the client has no insurance (can’t afford to renew, even if he/she IS insurable) and NO cash value.         4.  Had the client kept the WL contract (as bad as the Primerica rep will assert that it is) he/she would STILL have insurance, and WOULD HAVE a cash value, however little. I can only conclude from the above, that approximately 89% OF PRIMERICA’S CLIENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF HAD THEY NEVER DONE BUSINESS WITH PRIMERICA. Admittedly, the few who actually set up an investment, and stayed with it, are better off than with traditional WL.  Few did, and the majority got sold CST with it’s relatively poor performance and very high front load. Additional thoughts; With over 80% of it’s agents insurance licensed only, yet out preaching the benefits of BTID, I question the legality of the system.  If what that agent says in any way can be construed as a offer to sell a security, and that agent has no security license, heavy fines and even jail terms are possible. It is amusing that, having contributed to changing the industry, new products that partially resulted from Primerica’s (A L WMS, actually) activities, now outperform BTID for many people.  I refer to Variable Universal Life that has cheaper insurance, as good or better performance than most mutual funds Primerica sells, tax deferred growth, and income tax free income in the form of loans with little or no net interest.  So, having changed the industry, Primerica can no longer compete with the results of that change. Hope this of of some use to you…. Cheers, Skibum

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This takes place in Hawaii….. Scenario:  Submitted application for auto insurance…quoted $198 for 6-month policy…agreed to it and paid $198 by check.  Three weeks later, Don’t forget the obvious choices of the Insurance Commissioner and the Better Business Bureau for your area.  Also, I have heard that Primerica Financial Services now has Auto Insurance at very reasonable rates.  They may be in your area….just look them up and contact them.  I have enjoyed doing business with them for years. – Brian Shoop

What a joke!  The average career of a Primerica "insurance expert" is about 30 days!  It takes about that long for them to be exposed to the real world – which is usually just after they have alienated every friend and family member they have trying to get them to buy into the stupid pyramid scheme (make lots of money off someone else even more stupid than you are).  Wait until they tell you about their wonderful life insurance plans!  Keep your hand clutched tightly around your wallets folks.  You’re better off contacting your nearest Amway distributor about how YOU can cash in on the "easy" multi-level marketing business, at least they are more honest about it.  Rob

Response:

 Response to SKIBUM:  You are making me laugh!  VUL is a rip off!! Why was it invented? Please send me the name of the  person who has the kind of cash as you have stated, in a VUL policy.  ($300K)

Your post is a joke.  You are a joke.  I have repeatedly asked you for specifics.  I have asked you to explain your comments.  I have asked you what provisions of your products you feel are superior to those of other companies.  I tried to explain to you what VUL is, and how it works.  Your either did not read my post, did not understand it, or are so blinded by what you "know" that all other data is ignored. VUL is a ripoff?????  You have no idea what VUL is, or how it works. You have repeatedly proved that with your silly assertations.  You don’t even know how Whole Life works, and I doubt that you know your own term works.  You seem to think that because your term has a guaranteed upper limit beyond which the premium cannot be raised, means that the premium is guaranteed.  Your CURRENT premium is not guaranteed beyond the first year.  Past the first year, that premium can be raised at will.   I will try to explain VUL so simply that even you can understand it.  VUL is a way to buy term, and invest the difference…..in something that is income tax free.  There are, in most VULs, some 10 to 20 different underlying funds in which the client can invest.  Among the funds in various VULs are Fidility funds, Fortis funds, Janus/IDEX funds, Fred Alger Small Cap Appreciation…….ranging from money market funds to very aggressive growth funds.  The premiums are NOT tax deductable.  The funds, however, grow tax deferred (that means you don’t pay tax on the growth). Money you take out of the VUL, in the form of (often) zero net interest, or very low (1 to 2%) loans, are free of income tax. For some people, the benefit of income tax free income far exceeds the benefit of tax deductable contributions.   So, if I can put the same amount of money in a VUL, get insurance at a cost per thousand significantly lower than you pay for it with PFS, get investments that out perform CST Growth by 4 to 6%, and get 20%, or much better, more after tax income than with your BTID, this, you think is a ripoff???? You think ending up with $300K after 25 to 35 years is a lot???  I repeat, do you have a securities license???  I’ve asked you this before.  Do you have a right to an opinion???  You act as though a sales charge is bad. You must be more informed on  expenses!

You refer, of course, to my comments about Common (NON)Sense Trust having an 8.5% front load, the highest allowed by law.  No, I don’t think sales charges are bad.  I do, however, think that 8.5% front load for an average to below average performing fund (CST Growth, the BEST CST fund) is, you should pardon the expression, a ripoff.  20th Century Ultra, a no load has beat the S & P average of 12% over the long haul by 5 percentage points.  4 to 5% load is about the highest that most funds charge.  This is all public data.  You ought to read some, sometime.  Why would you ever suggest VUL and not an IRA account, especially in a  mutual fund?

Again, I’ve already told you a couple of times.  An IRA lets you deduct contributions (well, some of the people) from current income, and gives you tax deferred growth.  After age 59 and a half, all withdrawals are taxed as normal income in the year in which they are taken.  (Do I really have to explain this???  Do you have a securities license??)  VULs do not qualify for tax deductable contributions.  (What the hell, I’ve got people who’re putting $1000/mo into a VUL…couldn’t deduct that in an IRA either….over 2000 Dollars…single guy)  A VUL does, however qualify for tax deferred growth.  When the money is taken out of the VUL it is free of income tax.  You pay the cost of the insurance in order to avoid the cost of the income tax.  STRICTLY ANALYZED AS INVESTMENTS, a VUL will beat an IRA in some cases, especially for younger, healthier clients.  In those cases, you could consider the insurance of the VUL as a freebie.  However, we’ve been discussing BTID.  If the individual is older, or not a good risk, the cost of the VUL and concomittant insurance will exceed the value of the tax break.  But, the cost of the term in BTID would also be very high and the VUL might well outperform the BTID.  Sometimes is does, sometimes it doesn’t.  Ya gotta crunch the numbers.  So, why would I ever suggest VUL??? Because it works better, sometimes.  Sometimes it doesn’t, so I sell him term (if he wants insurance) and a good mutual fund (consistant with his risk tolerance, needs, etc).  You see, Alan, most of the people you’ve been blathering at sell more term than you do.  We BTID too, and we do it better, with far cheaper, better products.  How do you explain where the cash-value in the first several years in any  cash-value plan? Including VUL.

That’s pretty easy.  I say, "See, here it is."  Every VUL I ever saw had cash value in the first year.  I will admit that I haven’t seen them all. But if I’d seen one, I’ve seen more than you have.  If you had, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.  I might remind you that you pay taxes on your money only once. So how is  VUL a tax advantage? Please educate me.

Actually, money is taxed several times. I won’t even argue the point.  Go read something….anything.  How is VUL a tax advantage compared to what??  Compared to an IRA.  (Anybody notice the rules here??  It seems to be that I’m trying to compare VUL to BTID, and the PFSers always want to just compare the investment. Oh, well)  Alan, as I’ve stated before, and freely admit.  it is not ALWAYS an advantage compared to an IRA. Compared to your term and CST it has lots of advantages for a great many people…again not all.  For some people, a good index fund with it’s tax advantage (get somebody else to explain distributions, capital gains, etc.) is better.  I never said it was.  You said it is a ripoff.  It is not. Overcharging (8.5% front load) for average to below average (<12%) performing mutual funds……now THAT might be a ripoff….  As far as premiums. VUL never goes up? Yes it does. The unpaid portions of  the premiums come from the cash value, right.

Again, Alan, you didn’t read my posting, you didn’t understand it, or you are blinded by what you "know" because your upline told you so.  Let’s be more specific.  Yes, the cost per thousand of the Annual Renewable Term in a VUL goes up.  However, since the amount of insurance bought goes down as the cash value goes up, the "cost of insurance" , or, the amount of premium dollar going toward insurance, stays roughly the same.  Is this so difficult to understand???  "Unpaid portions of the premiums"???  What the hell are you talking about????  You mean if the client quits paying premiums??  Yes, that’s one of the things that can happen.  If it happens to PFS, you cancell the policy.  In the outyears, when the cash value has outstripped the original death benefit level, the client has retired and no longer pays premiums, yes the cost of the small amount of insurance required by the IRS will come out of the cash value.  It will be very little, comparitively speaking.  ALL cash value insurance is a form of TERM bundled with a savings account  which has some very, very strange banking rules.

There is truth in the first part of your statement.  Mostly misconception in the second part.  I will address that in response to one of your next comments.  Oh yea, the company always owns the cash value portion, this is why you  must pay interest on a so-called policy loan ( Why borrow your own  money???)

OK,,,,,this is one of the big contradictions in the PFS party line.  On the one hand, pfsers maintain that the company owns the cash value.  On the other hand, they whine about paying interest on "your own money".  Which is it, Alan?  Do you think the company owns the cash value and rips you off by not paying the death benefit AND the cash value (I debunked that in my last post)  Or, do you think that you own it and the company is ripping you off by making you pay interest to borrow your own money.  Come on, Alan.  You can’t have it both ways. Actually  YOU own the cash value.  However, in cash value insurance, as the cash value increases, the amound of insurance being bought decreases.  In the case of whole life, the two lines don’t cross, and the death benefit paid out remains the same.  That death benefit is, however, a mixture of insurance and cash value.  The best explanation of this can be found in Ben Baldwin’s THE NEW LIFE INSURANCE INVESTMENT GUIDE,  Ch 4, pgs 37 thru 40.  In the case of variable life the cash value usually will ultimately exceed the original death benefit and that’s where the IRS "corridor" of insurance comes in, making the death benefit mixture of cash value and insurance exceed the cash value by a small percentage (10%??)  Both the cash value and the insurance are paid, again.  I keep explaining this to you. Now we get to the "peculiar banking practices"  ( I also explained this in my last post)  You just don’t get it, do you???  In VUL, some of the cash value is removed to an escrow account.  The escrow account is then used as collateral, for a loan from another source (usually the insurance company’s general account).  Escrow loans have been normal practice for a hell of a long time.  There is little, or no, net interest charged.  Whole life works differently, and usually charges higher interest. I won’t go into it. Again, I ask you, let’s see something beyond bland assertations.  Things are not true just because you say them.  Don’t just repeat your misapprehensions, WHERE’S THE BEEF???  WHAT is so great about CST and Smith Barney.  You say they’re "strong".  What is your source? Compared to what, bond funds???   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Send more laughs!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I read your article about Primeamerica.  If I am not mistaken, they group  was previously owned by AL Williams.  AL Williams is in fact bad news and  he is prevented from doing business in several states. He is also being  sued in several states and that organization is certainly a pyramid  scheme.  Jim Barbieri Much as I oppose the damage I see Primerica doing

Damage to the cash-value industry! I have to take exception to a couple of your comments.  It is news to me that Primerica is prevented from doing business in several states.  Could you be more specific.  If you’re right, it’s good amunition.  If you’re wrong, you shouldn’t be saying it on the open net.

Primerica is not, and has never been banned from doing business in any state! Secondly, Primerica is not a pyramid scheme. By definition, pyramid schemes are illegal, and have no product. Primerica is certainly legal and they do have products.

Primerica is similiar to several sales organizations. Real estate, auto dealers ect. Admittedly, their term insurance is quite expensive, and they sell a lot of their in-house Common Sense Trust fund (CST) which, on average, doesn’t perform with the S & P 500 and has the highest front load allowed by law (8.5%).  The fact that they are being sued in several states puts them in the same boat with Pru and others.

Expensive compared to what? Which CST fund are you refering to? What states is PFS being sued? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am not, nor have I ever been (nor will I) a Primerica agent.  However, as I understand it, here’s a little information about them. A L WMS began in the ’70s, pushing the undenyable position that buy term and investing the difference provided more insurance coverage and greater investment performance than did traditional Whole Life (WL), still does, for that matter.  They were quite successful and became the largest seller of term insurance in the world.  They were, quite literally, a driving force in changing the industry.  Because they tended to specialize in replacing already extant WL, usually calling it a ripoff and questioning the morals of the agent who originally sold it, they made a lot of enemies.  Their tactics may have been legal, but I question the morality of that approach.

You question the morality of the approach? I question the morality of an agent selling  cash value for the sake of a higher commision check, instead of selling based on the clients needs! Their Network Marketing approach works.

You mean multi level sales. Much as we deplore such organizations as AMWAY, et. al. many of them are mutli billion dollar enterprizes.  Perhaps the individual agent most often fails to make any money, to speak of, as a marketing strategy Network Marketing has become the strategy of the 90s and very many Fortune 500 companies are lineing up to get into it.  At one time A L WMS had over 200,000 agents, 35,000 of which also had securities licenses.  (There-in lies a problem that I will address later).  In 1991, when Primerica bought out the coach (A. L. himself) they changed the pay plan and people left them in droves.  I understand they lost 70% of their business in one year.  They’re fighting back, but I don’t think they’ll ever approach their former level.

Just keep your eyes open, and do your homework. Even Greate things will happen with PFS! Back to the problem I mentioned above.  Only 35K out of 200K had securities licenses.  That’s what, 17 and a half percent?  Now, with 200 thousand people (most part time and ill trained) out preaching the benefits of buy term, invest the difference (BTID) and only 35,000 prepared to sell the investment, guess what happens.  Right!! A lot more term got sold than did mutual funds.  My data is over a year old, but that data indicated that only 11% of all Primerica transactions concerned mutual funds.

Your information is definitely "Old"   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Given that Primerica specializes in replacing WL, then we see that the following happens.    1.  The client already posesses a WL policy that is permanent insurance with a cash value (arguably low, but present)    2.  89% replace that permanent, cash value with term only.    3.  15, 20, or 25 years later (depending upon the length of the term contract) the client has no insurance (can’t afford to renew, even if he/she IS insurable) and NO cash value.    4.  Had the client kept the WL contract (as bad as the Primerica rep will assert that it is) he/she would STILL have insurance, and WOULD HAVE a cash value, however little. I can only conclude from the above, that approximately 89% OF PRIMERICA’S CLIENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF HAD THEY NEVER DONE BUSINESS WITH PRIMERICA.

The statements above are just not supported by any FACTS. Admittedly, the few who actually set up an investment, and stayed with it, are better off than with traditional WL.  Few did, and the majority got sold CST with it’s relatively poor performance and very high front load.

CST has strong performance. Are you refering to any particular fund? Additional thoughts; With over 80% of it’s agents insurance licensed only, yet out preaching the benefits of BTID, I question the legality of the system.  If what that agent says in any way can be construed as a offer to sell a security, and that agent has no security license, heavy fines and even jail terms are possible.

Thats true, but PFS complies with all of the laws governing this business! It is amusing that, having contributed to changing the industry, new products that partially resulted from Primerica’s (A L WMS, actually) activities, now outperform BTID for many people.

WHO? I refer to Variable Universal Life that has cheaper insurance

False, VUL – the cost of insurance goes up every year! as good or better performance than most mutual funds Primerica sells, tax deferred growth, and income tax free income in the form of loans with little or no net interest.  So, having changed the industry, Primerica can no longer compete with the results of that change.

Totally false! Tell me why VUL does not qualify for an IRA? The fact is that all cash value policies, the cash value is owned by the company and not the person contributing. WHY? Hope this of of some use to you…. Cheers, Skibum

Cheers, Alan L. Sheffield Alan L. Sheffield

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Great Debate, but one in which both sides are skewing their stuff. 1) ALW did much for the industry, changed it in fact,  people first need the amount of protection right for their families and their wants, cash value or term, the agent that does this for his clients did the best possible thing.  I just paid a death benefit on a $100,000 whole life policy, converted to whole life 4 years ago. the man was 59 when he died. He had a permanent need, for his business. so whole life.  He would have spent less on the term. No one knew he would die early. He could afford the 100K to match the permanent need he had.  It was the best decision at the time.  He had term before the need was considered permanent. 2)  Most people , investments or no, want to keep some life insurance in force for their life, more so those with fewer assets.The level terms are great and serve a purpose, but can short change people in later years. Modified UL’s often can offer a way to bridge the gap, and offer a term with a permanent option later on. 3)  There was indeed a time when MILICO’s operations were suspended in Tennessee, Texas, and at least one other state.  The COMMON SENSE TERM book was cited in the Texas case,  Primamerica alienated much of its field force, and created NMA and WMA as competion in the process. These orgs have replaced substantial pfs term with modified UL. and that of a great many other companies. 4) Multi-level works, can be done honestly and well. PFS failed in that respect.  The move for PFS and its offshoots of ex ALW management has been decidedly toward the traditional, in reputation. It is a far cry from the agressive on size fits all approach.   5) It all comes down to what fits the clients’ needs. Not one size but many as there are many clients.  Low budget, High budget, investment, estate planning, business.  How an agent meet those needs is his measure. Glad to add my two bits. Keith

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Nice critique of my post!  I perhaps overstated the conservative side. I have no problem with risk being taken when rewards are balanced.  I do not consider the stock market to be anything more than it is – a daily auction of securities in which the price fluctuates with expectations of numerous factors.  Most of my clients are young and I sell a lot more term than WL or interest sensitive.  I try to get them to get in the habit of saving something – anything – but save something every month. I had customers who lost some pretty heavy money (as a percentage of their total net assets) in the very late 70s and early 80s.  To say it did not affect me would be a lie. Every one of them would have made generous returns had they stuck it out or rather been able to stick it out.  They lost because they did not have balance and were afraid to stay any longer.  They bailed out at the time that they should have been buying, but no one knew when the bottom would be reached.  That’s another story – I had not sold them those funds – they were orphan clients.  Perhaps I’ve been too strong in my support for safety – time will tell.  BTW my primary business is personal lines P&C. I am curious to know what kind of expense loads are commonly being placed on the VULs now.  What I like in the ULs I’ve seen are the monthly insurance costs expressed as such.  What I seldom see explained to clients is the "expected improvement of mortality" that is often illustrated.  It may be no worse than anticipated dividends often illustrated with mutual WL policies but experience with the better companies indicates that they usually err on the side of safety.  I’m sure that this is not universally true any more than big UL players overstate their mortality figures but I read more about the excesses on the UL side.  I also have never seen UL track (under option B) favorably against a good mutual plan when premiums were equal.  I should perhaps have been more definitive on the interest sensitive side since some products are more predictible than others.  I like to make my proposals from a base of guaranteed outcomes first with reasonable expectations of whatever the current and somewhere in between may end up.  APL addresses the premium paying flexibility needed in most cases. Did I leave anything out? Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snipped, long discourse concerning my views on Primerica)  Thanks for a well thought out article, even though I do not agree with  all that you have said. (I for one, find variable UL horrible.)  I am  not a big fan of UL period.  Even though I feel that many of its  elements are a little more honest than others. Horrible??  Some VULs have a fixed, guaranteed subaccount in addition to the equity and bond based funds.  A client can choose any amount, including all (which rather defeats the purpose) of his money into that fixed account.  The client can choose a mix of fixed, conservative, middle and aggressive investment approaches, according to desire. What, by the way, do you have against flexible premium (UL) insurance?? Would you expand upon that, please??  Also, "a little more honest than others"??  Than what others, and in what way?     (snip)   What is true, is that vast numbers of  people are now investing directly or indirectly in the stock market.  Perhaps there is enough $ in the pipeline to drive the stock market to  10,000. This is a Zero Sum game???  But in time it will slow up. That, of course, is the only guarantee in the market.  Once the this top is reached, What makes you think there is such a thing as a "top"?  will the "smart money" still be in the market?  Hell no! Wrong, you can make money on a down market too. The smart  money will be making money on shorts!  Whose customers are going to get  soaked?  Not mine!  Think it can’t happen?  Read history!  Think it  can’t happen again?  Read more history! I think you need to read the history.  EVEN INCLUDING 1929, the average performance/gain of the stock market as a whole has been 10.3% (the last time I checked)  What you forget with your zero sum game/top/ etc, thinking is that the American economy is expanding.  There is no set amount of wealth, that we’re going to run out of.  The Club of Rome and other Malthusians forgot technology in their gloomy preditions of total collapse and the depletion of all natural recourses.  Our oil reserves are greater today than at the time of the Club of Rome predictions….better location….better extraction techniques,,, better efficiency of oil utilizations…..  Yes, the market WILL go down, but it will also go up, as long as we have an expanding economy.   This is a dangerous time.  There is so much optimism that even Joe Lunchbucket thinks he can make  money in the markets, by relying on fund managers Mutual funds, measured by theS & P 500 have averaged 12% gain for over 60 years.  Ya don’t loose money by buying at the wrong time.  Ya loose it by selling.  And the reason that so many people went broke in 1929 is that they had bought on margin, and couldn’t cover the margin.  Read your history.   Fund managers (good  ones too) were around in October of 1928.  Did they get their investors  out? No, they held on and made money after the market uptrended.   NO!  Term insurance salesmen were hating life in the 1930s during  the deflation.  Even the old "weekly premium" guys looked like heros  compared to the BTID crowd.  Anyone with a "lousy" whole life policy was  holding gold!  I have no doubt that we will see another collapse, and I  do not want my client’s life insurance chestnuts in the fire when it  comes.  What the heck happened to good old fashioned caution and laying  a foundation of liquidity before putting money at risk? Yeah.  And the thousands who had been paying premiums to First Executive, et. al. sure are happy, right???  So, you think that having your money spread over hundreds of companies in a mutual fund is horrible compared to haveing it all in one insurance company??  I’d agree that having all your money in the market is a bad idea.  I also assert that having all your money in a fixed investment like whole life (or CDs for that matter) is planned poverty.  The idea of laying a foundation of liquidity before putting money at risk is still alive and well.  No one has asserted anything to the contrary…..at least I didn’t.  However WL is no more the only (or even best, necessarily) foundation of that liquidity, than VUL is the only way to risk for possible gain.  I think you took my comments that VUL can, sometimes, outperform BTID (It is just another way to BTID) to be an attack on WL.  I meant no such attack.  My statement was that AS AN INVESTMENT, BTID outperformed WL.  Yes, it is possible to buy very expensive term and poor, highly loaded investments.  But, still, as investments go, WL doesn’t give a very good ROI.  Neither do CDs.  Ya pays fer security, and if that’s what you’re after, well and good.  I’m all for it!!  BTID is a concept that has been around for longer than either of us has  been on the planet.  The problem with it is that customers more often  than not BTSD (buy term and spend the difference). I believe I said that.  My point was that only some 11% of Primerica’s customers actually invested.  BTW, PFS types out there, If my figures are wrong, I’d be delighted to hear from you.  Please, some supporting documentation, or source of your figures.  No more RDS (Rectal Data Storage) data please.  Spurious attacks on my person and on the industry can left out too.  DATA please….just the facts. Traditional "whole  life" can be and still is a good purchase in most of the clients I see  (sooner or later). I won’t dispute that.  The same can be said for interest sensitive whole  life. You like interest sensitive whole life, but you don’t like UL???  Again, it is the flexible premiums you object to??  I think I missed something  I see people being sold the variable product who have NO savings  for short term  financial needs I also see those same people being sold whole life.  What’s your point? You said you thought VUL was horrible, now, it seems to me, that you object to the timing of the sale????  I would rather hand them the toll free  number for Vangard and advise them to look into Vangard’s index funds  and be their own investment advisor. For lots of folks, that’s not a bad idea.  I, on the other hand, would rather sell them those mutual funds, since that’s what I do.  I can say from experience that the  old participating WL saved my agency when Bush had us involved in desert  storm and Norfolk was like a ghost town. (The funds I own were not doing  so hot at the time.)  The paid up additional insurance that the  dividends had purchased kept my own program from failing. A well funded VUL can achieve the same thing.  If you stop the premiums too soon, of course, not.  That’s one of the main risks of VUL, to which I have alluded in prior posts.  (snip) no one , currently makes it economically rewarding enough for  bright people to see a career in our field. Well, that is one of the main argument that the MLMers use to support the MLM concept.  It IS possible in an MLM, just damn unlikely.  Maybe one in 10,000 MLMers make really big bucks, but there are those who do.  Their point is that no employees make that kind of money.  Damn few insurance salesmen either.  What’s the natinal average, 1 sale a week and maybe $30K?  I find little to like about MLM because I

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You have not answered my question about taking out a second mortgage on one’s house.  Isn’t that borrowing you own money, by your reasoning? Food for thought.  Rob

Rob, Taking out a second mortgage is not borrowing your own money. A second mortgage uses  the equity in your home as collateral againt the money you do borrow. In a cash value policy, you have paid the premium. Part of the premium goes into the  so-called savings. So you pay for insurance, and a form of savings with one premium. Another point, you really never know what the cost of the insurance portion  actually is. Also, after several years (typically 1-5 years) when you actually show a value for the savings portion, you must pay interest on any money taken out. This is the policy loan. So my question is… Why would you save money this way? when you could easily save in some other investment, or account, and not pay interest to use your money if you needed to. Thanks, Alan. Alan L. Sheffield

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Jim, (Primerica not Primeamerica for future reference) Your comments are unfounded, about A.L. Williams. Travelers Group (Formerly Primerica Corporation) bought A.L. Williams back in 1990. FYI – Primerica Financial Services has never been prevented from doing business in any state. Don’t take my word for it, go check with your state! Oh, by the way, Art Williams is one of the greatest leaders in American History. I reccomend that you go pick up one of his books or even attend one of his seminars. You may learn something. I can foward you information about his seminars, and training if you wish. As far as Primerica offering P&C, We do a great job! We offer our P&C through Travelers. We are doing things that no other company would consider. You should have a quote done on you through your local PFS office, We may save you some money there, or offer greater value for your money. Sincerely, Alan L. Sheffield

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Jim, Your comments are unfounded, about A.L. Williams. Travelers Group (Formerly Primerica Corporation) bought A.L. Williams back in 1990.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy camper.   A.L. Williams and his slash and burn techniques, have ripped a ton of people’s life savings. As a salesperson for just one of the 5,500 insurance companies in America you don’t have the first clue about what you are talking about other than being a trained robot who wantonly sings the same song about how good A.L.Williams is…. What you don’t know and can’t tell anyone is the crucial information that consumer need to make an INTELLIGENT not emotional choice when conducting Risk Management activities . If you want to learn about the business you are in go to your public library and get a copy of THE CRIME OF THE CENTURY – INSURANCE  by Ron If you want to learn how to intelligently purchase insurance go to http:www.ThePlan.com then click on THE QUALITY INFORMATION INSTITUTE.   As far as property owners insurance is concerned, how many instruction books on how to collect money in the form of a legitimate claim  does A.L. Williams and Travelers deliver with those thousands of contracts.   NOT ONE.  The facts are that your claims adjusters are TRAINED to treat consumers who suffer a loss as if they are criminals.  SHAME on TRAVELERS. When Christ said "Forgive them father, for they do not know what they do" he must have been talking about insurance salespeople who are brainwashed. Oh, by the way, Art Williams is one of the greatest leaders in American History. I reccomend that you go pick up one of his books or even attend one of his seminars. You may learn something. I can foward you information about his seminars, and training if you wish.

Training is correct.  Do you know the difference between training and education? We train animals and servants to do our bidding. We educate people  to make intelligent decisions. As far as Primerica offering P&C, We do a great job! We offer our P&C through Travelers. We are doing things that no other company would consider. You should have a quote done on you through your local PFS office, We may save you some money there, or offer greater value for your money.

As a documented expert in Crisis management and financial recovery from insurance  companies, I would NOT do business with Travelers if they were giving their insurance away for FREE. I welcome any questions and comments on the above matter or any legitimate Risk Management activities Ron Alford   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sincerely, Alan L. Sheffield

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Stick to the facts please. A.L.S. Alan L. Sheffield

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I read your article about Primeamerica.  If I am not mistaken, they group  was previously owned by AL Williams.  AL Williams is in fact bad news and  he is prevented from doing business in several states. He is also being  sued in several states and that organization is certainly a pyramid  scheme.  Jim Barbieri Much as I oppose the damage I see Primerica doing, I have to take exception to a couple of your comments.  It is news to me that Primerica is prevented from doing business in several states.  Could you be more specific.  If you’re right, it’s good amunition.  If you’re wrong, you shouldn’t be saying it on the open net.  Secondly, Primerica is not a pyramid scheme. By definition, pyramid schemes are illegal, and have no product.  Primerica is certainly legal and they do have products.  Admittedly, their term insurance is quite expensive, and they sell a lot of their in-house Common Sense Trust fund (CST) which, on average, doesn’t perform with the S & P 500 and has the highest front load allowed by law (8.5%).  The fact that they are being sued in several states puts them in the same boat with Pru and others. I am not, nor have I ever been (nor will I) a Primerica agent.  However, as I understand it, here’s a little information about them. A L WMS began in the ’70s, pushing the undenyable position that buy term and investing the difference provided more insurance coverage and greater investment performance than did traditional Whole Life (WL), still does, for that matter.  They were quite successful and became the largest seller of term insurance in the world.  They were, quite literally, a driving force in changing the industry.  Because they tended to specialize in replacing already extant WL, usually calling it a ripoff and questioning the morals of the agent who originally sold it, they made a lot of enemies.  Their tactics may have been legal, but I question the morality of that approach. Their Network Marketing approach works.  Much as we deplore such organizations as AMWAY, et. al. many of them are mutli billion dollar enterprizes.  Perhaps the individual agent most often fails to make any money, to speak of, as a marketing strategy Network Marketing has become the strategy of the 90s and very many Fortune 500 companies are lineing up to get into it.  At one time A L WMS had over 200,000 agents, 35,000 of which also had securities licenses.  (There-in lies a problem that I will address later).  In 1991, when Primerica bought out the coach (A. L. himself) they changed the pay plan and people left them in droves.  I understand they lost 70% of their business in one year.  They’re fighting back, but I don’t think they’ll ever approach their former level. Back to the problem I mentioned above.  Only 35K out of 200K had securities licenses.  That’s what, 17 and a half percent?  Now, with 200 thousand people (most part time and ill trained) out preaching the benefits of buy term, invest the difference (BTID) and only 35,000 prepared to sell the investment, guess what happens.  Right!! A lot more term got sold than did mutual funds.  My data is over a year old, but that data indicated that only 11% of all Primerica transactions concerned mutual funds. Given that Primerica specializes in replacing WL, then we see that the following happens.         1.  The client already posesses a WL policy that is permanent insurance with a cash value (arguably low, but present)         2.  89% replace that permanent, cash value with term only.         3.  15, 20, or 25 years later (depending upon the length of the term contract) the client has no insurance (can’t afford to renew, even if he/she IS insurable) and NO cash value.         4.  Had the client kept the WL contract (as bad as the Primerica rep will assert that it is) he/she would STILL have insurance, and WOULD HAVE a cash value, however little. I can only conclude from the above, that approximately 89% OF PRIMERICA’S CLIENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF HAD THEY NEVER DONE BUSINESS WITH PRIMERICA. Admittedly, the few who actually set up an investment, and stayed with it, are better off than with traditional WL.  Few did, and the majority got sold CST with it’s relatively poor performance and very high front load. Additional thoughts; With over 80% of it’s agents insurance licensed only, yet out preaching the benefits of BTID, I question the legality of the system.  If what that agent says in any way can be construed as a offer to sell a security, and that agent has no security license, heavy fines and even jail terms are possible. It is amusing that, having contributed to changing the industry, new products that partially resulted from Primerica’s (A L WMS, actually) activities, now outperform BTID for many people.  I refer to Variable Universal Life that has cheaper insurance, as good or better performance than most mutual funds Primerica sells, tax deferred growth, and income tax free income in the form of loans with little or no net interest.  So, having changed the industry, Primerica can no longer compete with the results of that change. Hope this of of some use to you…. Cheers, Skibum

Thanks for a well thought out article, even though I do not agree with all that you have said. (I for one, find variable UL horrible.)  I am not a big fan of UL period.  Even though I feel that many of its elements are a little more honest than others.  "When a guy with no knowledge whatsoever can make money in the stock market, it’s time for me to get out". I’ve heard all my life that the above statement was attributed to the late President Kennedy’s father, Joe.  Whether it is true or not is not relevent here.  What is true, is that vast numbers of people are now investing directly or indirectly in the stock market. Perhaps there is enough $ in the pipeline to drive the stock market to 10,000.  But in time it will slow up.  Once the this top is reached, will the "smart money" still be in the market?  Hell no!  The smart money will be making money on shorts!  Whose customers are going to get soaked?  Not mine!  Think it can’t happen?  Read history!  Think it can’t happen again?  Read more history!  This is a dangerous time. There is so much optimism that even Joe Lunchbucket thinks he can make money in the markets, by relying on fund managers.  Fund managers (good ones too) were around in October of 1928.  Did they get their investors out?  NO!  Term insurance salesmen were hating life in the 1930s during the deflation.  Even the old "weekly premium" guys looked like heros compared to the BTID crowd.  Anyone with a "lousy" whole life policy was holding gold!  I have no doubt that we will see another collapse, and I do not want my client’s life insurance chestnuts in the fire when it comes.  What the heck happened to good old fashioned caution and laying a foundation of liquidity before putting money at risk? BTID is a concept that has been around for longer than either of us has been on the planet.  The problem with it is that customers more often than not BTSD (buy term and spend the difference). Traditional "whole life" can be and still is a good purchase in most of the clients I see (sooner or later).  The same can be said for interest sensitive whole life. I see people being sold the variable product who have NO savings for short term  financial needs.  I would rather hand them the toll free number for Vangard and advise them to look into Vangard’s index funds and be their own investment advisor.  I can say from experience that the old participating WL saved my agency when Bush had us involved in desert storm and Norfolk was like a ghost town. (The funds I own were not doing so hot at the time.)  The paid up additional insurance that the dividends had purchased kept my own program from failing.   I cannot devote enough time here to do this subject justice but will say that no one , currently makes it economically rewarding enough for bright people to see a career in our field.  I contend that until the companies can find a way for bright, energetic,and honest people to make as much or more money than the CEO of a company, our business is going to be headed down hill. I find little to like about MLM because I have never seen a MLM plan that was not conceived on the idea that the "real" money is made off the sales of "downline" people and not off personal production which I think is where it has to be. I don’t think we disagree on this one. It sounds cynical, but I think too many of the companies are run by lawyers and bean counters who have never sold a policy to anyone (many would consider it beneath them and hold their sales force in contempt) and have no concept what goes on in the "field". I don’t mean to pound on you.  Based upon your response, you are the only other responder (that I have seen) to this forum who actually showed some real knowledge of our business and some experience.  We both have different life experiences that are reflected in our view of the industry.  Best wishes and I hope that you will be commenting often. Thanks for a refreshing article that was not an advertisement for financial planning.  Rob (in Norfolk, VA)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This takes place in Hawaii….. Scenario:  Submitted application for auto insurance…quoted $198 for 6-month policy…agreed to it and paid $198 by check.  Three weeks later, Don’t forget the obvious choices of the Insurance Commissioner and the Better Business Bureau for your area.  Also, I have heard that Primerica Financial Services now has Auto Insurance at very reasonable rates.  They may be in your area….just look them up and contact them.  I have enjoyed doing business with them for years. – Brian Shoop What a joke!  The average career of a Primerica "insurance expert" is about 30 days!  It takes about that long for them to be exposed to the real world – which is usually just after they have alienated every friend and family member they have trying to get them to buy into the stupid pyramid scheme (make lots of money off someone else even more stupid than you are). So I guess that Prudential, Merill Lynch, Century 21, and any other Financial Service, Insurance, or Real Estate office is a pyramid scheme as well?  Apparently you have no idea how the "real world" works.  Primerica runs its offices the same way as anyone else, with one exception, they do not advertise in the newspaper for job openings.  They hire based on personal recommendations.  BTW, if someone is not interested then they are not interested, the office I was contacted by does not try to pressure people. For your information a pyramid is when you give money to someone and do not get anything in return.  It is only a pyramid when no product, service, or information is given in return for the money. Wait until they tell you about their wonderful life insurance plans! As opposed to the great product known as "cash-value"? Keep your hand clutched tightly around your wallets folks.  You’re better off contacting your nearest Amway distributor about how YOU can cash in on the "easy" multi-level marketing business, at least they are more honest about it.  Rob Multi-level marketing, that’s a good one.  Compare a full line financial services company to one that sells stuff from a catalog! And remember the only people that get rich in MLM are the ones that in at the beginning. Only a small % of people in MLM actually earn enough to support themselves, if they make any money at all it is usually only extra income. I assume that you have "proof" of you allegations?  Were you hired by Primerica at one time?  Are you in the insurance industry?  Or are you just going by some rumor that you overheard? —

What the heck did I stir up?  I’ve been in this business for 20 years. I remember when Art Williams started the thing.  I remember the lousy products that were sold by his followers and the projections of 18% annuities that were given their suckers.  I remember everything about how his organization convinced successful accountants and lawyers that a 100+ year old industry was going to be revolutionized by a former highschool football coach, so they plunged in and gave up practices to rake in the big bucks because they couldn’t quite seem to get it done part time.  They all fell for the line that the business was simple and that stupid insurance agents had been ripping people off for years and years. A two week licensing course doesn’t even scratch the surface.  99% of the Primerica crowd have never even read a life insurance policy from front to back and have no idea what they are really doing in the business.  They all are well intentioned, they do not intend to cause harm and I do not wish to imply such.  They do not know anything about insurance beyond the "official company" line.  I could go on and on but I am not attacking you!  I dare say that you have been convinced that "cash value" insurance is BAD.  I can assure you that I know more than just a little about what is good and not so good.  I own cash value insurance as well as quite a bit of term!  I will say that if it were not worth the premium, I would have replaced it years ago.  If you think that this topic is simple, you have been HAD.  Best wishes and kindest regards. Rob

Response:

This takes place in Hawaii….. Scenario:  Submitted application for auto insurance…quoted $198 for 6-month policy…agreed to it and paid $198 by check.  Three weeks later,

Don’t forget the obvious choices of the Insurance Commissioner and the Better Business Bureau for your area.  Also, I have heard that Primerica Financial Services now has Auto Insurance at very reasonable rates.  They may be in your area….just look them up and contact them.  I have enjoyed doing business with them for years. – Brian Shoop

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