Question:

Hi – Watch for it… We’ll be putting up a Veritas box – same functionality (maybe not as pretty), but will be 1/2 the price… Cheers, Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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Hi – Watch for it… We’ll be putting up a Veritas box – same functionality (maybe not as pretty), but will be 1/2 the price… Cheers, Rob

Rob, If it’s not $56 then its obviously inferior to the LN. Sorry, but I’ll have to put your catalog away and hope for another box to appear on e-bay. <G Dean

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"Nuno Souto"  wrote … Fortunately I get all my L-N planes (boxes and instructions included) for free.  I have more money to spend on beer can shims that way.  ;0) that has to qualify as a drive-by gloat if I ever saw one! How the heck do you manage that?

I lead a charmed life I guess.   ;0) — Cheers, Howard Visit me in the woodshop – www.inthewoodshop.org

Response:

Hi – Watch for it… We’ll be putting up a Veritas box – same functionality (maybe not as pretty), but will be 1/2 the price…

   Let me know if you need someone to test the prototype for you.       Chuck Vance

Response:

Maybe the box is made of ductile iron??? And is dead square on all 6 sides and flat to within .001"??? Comes with a nice cherry tote and knob??? Layne

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Who the hell would pay money for an empty box? I bet LN would be happy to ship you an empty box for much less than $56.

But would it be a vintage box?  ;-) Some people collect planes.  Some people will pay more if the plane is in its original box.  Sounds like there are also people who collect boxes (or can’t be bothered to read the entire Ebay posts).  There is money to be made by those of us who only want the plane.  That is unless you care about your grandson being able to sell your old LN planes with the boxes on Ebay.  They’ll be worth a lot more with their original boxes.   But then what can you say about a relative who would sell your old planes? — to email me use: mclainusenet AT comcast DOT net

Response:

Maybe they want it on a shelf so that people think the plane on the bench is a L-N, not a Buck Brothers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is amazing is that if you click on "Bid History," you’ll find that there were three people who bid on an empty box, and a fourth who bid up to $75.00 before retracting his bid… Karl in IL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 CB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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There is no accounting for taste! Maybe there is a fine wood box inside, , , — SwampBug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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"Lorna & Chris"  wrote … http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

No, it appears to be a box for sale that some schmuck bought for $56, plus shipping. I guess some people will do anything to get next to a Lie Nielsen product. Fortunately I get all my L-N planes (boxes and instructions included) for free.  I have more money to spend on beer can shims that way.  ;0) — Cheers, Howard Visit me in the woodshop – www.inthewoodshop.org

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What is amazing is that if you click on "Bid History," you’ll find that there were three people who bid on an empty box, and a fourth who bid up to $75.00 before retracting his bid… Karl in IL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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All I can say is GOOD GOD that hook going to leave a scar .  But at least there good chance they will buy my big red bridge that crosses the bay Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

….sound of me digging through my closet to find my LN boxes…. Who the hell would pay money for an empty box? I bet LN would be happy to ship you an empty box for much less than $56. –Neil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

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says… Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box. Am I missing something here?

  Yeah, the link!  :-)

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says… Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box. Am I missing something here?   Yeah, the link!  :-)

The link will cost you another $10!!!  ;)

Response:

(and I quote): I guess some people will do anything to get next to a Lie Nielsen product. Fortunately I get all my L-N planes (boxes and instructions included) for free.  I have more money to spend on beer can shims that way.  ;0)

that has to qualify as a drive-by gloat if I ever saw one! How the heck do you manage that? — Cheers Nuno Souto

Response:

Just found mine.  $25 and I’ll pay the shipping! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is amazing is that if you click on "Bid History," you’ll find that there were three people who bid on an empty box, and a fourth who bid up to $75.00 before retracting his bid… Karl in IL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2101016332 Check out this link..This guy paid 56.00 for cardboard box.Am I missing something here?

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Indeed… I heard the same kind of story from Qantas ground staff in Perth last week. Does "Ben" work for Quantas by any chance??? It seems that someone has being going to great lengths to spread rumours about VB according to the Australian today. Despite audited figures suggesting they actually made a profit, there still are persisting rumours about its imminent demise. I don’t work for any airline – and I fly my own plane whenever I can rather than use RPT, so I have other prejudices. I distrust much of the postings on the net – provide some evidence. Mick Muller ( And I always thought VB was my favourite drink anyway). Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

doesnt it point more to a liquidity problem at AN? getting your debts paid more promptly has helped many an organisation out of a difficult spot. I’d suspect this to be more the case.  Ansett have their own problems without extending credit to a competitor. Tight credit & quick cashflow are good for business survival.

Yep. More likely it is simply an accounting issue,

Fraid not, its still hemorraghing money. The receivers get a piece of the revenue they generate.

Bulllshit. Otherwise the receivable is part of the AN asset, and probably goes to Fox-Lew instead of the other creditors.

More bullshit. You aint gotta fucking clue, as always. Obviously it is Arthur Andersen’s AND the ANsett creditors best interests to make sure VB pays before Ansett changes hands.

Pathetic really.

Response:

Indeed… I heard the same kind of story from Qantas ground staff in Perth last week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does "Ben" work for Quantas by any chance??? It seems that someone has being going to great lengths to spread rumours about VB according to the Australian today. Despite audited figures suggesting they actually made a profit, there still are persisting rumours about its imminent demise. I don’t work for any airline – and I fly my own plane whenever I can rather than use RPT, so I have other prejudices. I distrust much of the postings on the net – provide some evidence. Mick Muller ( And I always thought VB was my favourite drink anyway). Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

I didn’t mean to cause too much angst.

That aint angst, wanker. I have 2 friends

Liar. who work with Virgin

Liar. and I also know someone in Qantas.

Liar. I was relaying what I had been told by Virgin workers

Liar. and I just wondered if anyone could substantiate the rumours.

Liar.

Response:

I work at AN engineering. The directive was passed onto me. Thanks.

doesnt it point more to a liquidity problem at AN? getting your debts paid more promptly has helped many an organisation out of a difficult spot.

Response:

doesnt it point more to a liquidity problem at AN? getting your debts paid more promptly has helped many an organisation out of a difficult spot.

I’d suspect this to be more the case.  Ansett have their own problems without extending credit to a competitor.  Tight credit & quick cashflow are good for business survival.

Response:

doesnt it point more to a liquidity problem at AN? getting your debts paid more promptly has helped many an organisation out of a difficult spot. I’d suspect this to be more the case.  Ansett have their own problems without extending credit to a competitor.  Tight credit & quick cashflow are good for business survival.

More likely it is simply an accounting issue, The receivers get a piece of the revenue they generate. Otherwise the receivable is part of the AN asset, and probably goes to Fox-Lew instead of the other creditors. Obviously it is Arthur Andersen’s AND the ANsett creditors best interests to make sure VB pays before Ansett changes hands.

Response:

VIRGIN BLUE PRESS RELEASE 04/01/02 ….. 4th January 2002 Virgin Blue Confirms Record Half Year Profit of $8.2M Virgin Blue confirmed today, following completion of signed audited accounts, profit before tax of $8.2M for the 6 month period ended 30 September 2001. This exceptional result was earned during a period that commenced with fierce competition in a four-airline market and ended with the demise of Ansett and saw the departure of Impulse as an independent operator. These results build on a $0.5M trading profit before tax for the first seven months of operation ended 30 March 2001. Furthermore, draft unaudited accounts reflect a third quarter (October – December) profit in excess of first half earnings. Virgin Blue Head of Finance, Manny Gill says, "Management considers this to be an incredibly strong result given the pace of growth over the past six months that have seen the airline fleet expand from six to seventeen aircraft and staff number increase from 600 to over 1500. "This confirms our position as Australia’s Number 2 airline and it’s only true low fare carrier, and places the company in a strong financial position to meet any future challenges head on", Manny Gill concluded.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

        It’s obvious Ben knows nobody working for VB, if he              did, they would have informed him that the airline              is firing on all cylinders, to go from 6 aircraft 12mths              ago to 17 at present represents an 180% increase              in operations, not to mention the only airline to make              a profit in its 1st year, when originally Branson was              expecting to take 3yrs to break into the black,              Wirraway – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Virgin Blue are NOT paying cash for fuel or any other services. VB’s "no show" rate is minimal so puts that stupid QF seat buying rumour to rest ….. I welcome QF to buy Virgin Blue seats though, its all money and on VB you must pay upfront for your ticket, if you don’t fly you loose your money. Unlike QF’s full fare tickets that you can reserve and pay for at the airport by which time it is far to late for QF to resell the tickets. VB’s ontime performance is some where in the 90%’s on IATA standards (departure within 15mins of sched time) and in the 70-80%’s for actual to the minute on time departures. Ben what do you mean when you say "VB are no longer doing loads" ….. virgin blue did not have time for a party when Ansett collapsed staff resources were running thin on the ground as SYD staff had to make a run for the capital and keep the Canberra operation going. BNE staff had to keep Townsville and Coolangatta going so you can see there was no time for a party! I think VB was actually sad if anything to see ansett go as AN used to help quite a bit with ground handling in the above mentioned ports ground/engineering spares when needed and were much more hospitable then QF. People can decide for them selves, however I think people can tell the difference between the truth and a malicious rumour ……. posts profit?? P. Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

I didn’t mean to cause too much angst. I have 2 friends who work with Virgin and I also know someone in Qantas. I was relaying what I had been told by Virgin workers and I just wondered if anyone could substantiate the rumours.

Response:

Yeah no wonder Ansett is asking for up fron CASH … they (Ansett) are the ones still in trouble bleeding approx. 1M per week ….. Ansett is the one desperarte for cold hard cash, Virgin are loaded – posting an 8.5M 6 month audited profit.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I can confirm is that as of last Friday Ansett’s Admin’s have requested up front payments for the use of AN engineering facilities and tooling. Rmm Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

Virgin Blue are NOT paying cash for fuel or any other services. VB’s "no show" rate is minimal so puts that stupid QF seat buying rumour to rest ….. I welcome QF to buy Virgin Blue seats though, its all money and on VB you must pay upfront for your ticket, if you don’t fly you loose your money. Unlike QF’s full fare tickets that you can reserve and pay for at the airport by which time it is far to late for QF to resell the tickets. VB’s ontime performance is some where in the 90%’s on IATA standards (departure within 15mins of sched time) and in the 70-80%’s for actual to the minute on time departures. Ben what do you mean when you say "VB are no longer doing loads" ….. virgin blue did not have time for a party when Ansett collapsed staff resources were running thin on the ground as SYD staff had to make a run for the capital and keep the Canberra operation going. BNE staff had to keep Townsville and Coolangatta going so you can see there was no time for a party! I think VB was actually sad if anything to see ansett go as AN used to help quite a bit with ground handling in the above mentioned ports ground/engineering spares when needed and were much more hospitable then QF. People can decide for them selves, however I think people can tell the difference between the truth and a malicious rumour ……. posts profit?? P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

I’ve heard "Ben" beats his wife and has a nasty cocain habit. I’ve also heard he is also an alcoholic.  Can anyone confirm?

All true. Kicks the dog too. Virgin just announced a better-than-expected profit for the 6 month to Dec, so I doubt any of "Ben"’s innuendo has the slightest basis in truth. Gaaaaawd its a bugger on an industry  . But with the grand scheme of Fox and his mate   wanting to get one over TNT Toll group  its going to get pretty gloves off . watch the rail and shipping  industry rags  may be a good survival trait for Ansett employees. Bottom line is though with 3 players carving up what the market is in these times something has to give in about 18 months unless drastic growth in market ( which from real world indicators I cant see ) Maybe lots of bums on seats  but no fat in the yields. Any one else getting this Deja vue  feeling ( is that a tautology or not ??)

Nope.

Response:

I work at AN engineering. The directive was passed onto me.

Thanks.

Response:

[Crap snipped] I’ve heard "Ben" beats his wife and has a nasty cocain habit.  I’ve also heard he is also an alcoholic.  Can anyone confirm? Virgin just announced a better-than-expected profit for the 6 month to Dec, so I doubt any of "Ben"’s innuendo has the slightest basis in truth.

Response:

why would qantas wana spend money on buying seat on VG and no one turns up? thats a waste of money

Response:

– You Can get to the weekly pics page from here http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/caption/link.html http://cleaver.freeyellow.com/sad.html

[Crap snipped] I’ve heard "Ben" beats his wife and has a nasty cocain habit.  I’ve also heard he is also an alcoholic.  Can anyone confirm? Virgin just announced a better-than-expected profit for the 6 month to Dec, so I doubt any of "Ben"’s innuendo has the slightest basis in truth.

Gaaaaawd its a bugger on an industry  . But with the grand scheme of Fox and his mate   wanting to get one over TNT Toll group  its going to get pretty gloves off . watch the rail and shipping  industry rags  may be a good survival trait for Ansett employees. Bottom line is though with 3 players carving up what the market is in these times something has to give in about 18 months unless drastic growth in market ( which from real world indicators I cant see ) Maybe lots of bums on seats  but no fat in the yields. Any one else getting this Deja vue  feeling ( is that a tautology or not ??) — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

What I can confirm is that as of last Friday Ansett’s Admin’s have requested up front payments for the use of AN engineering facilities and tooling. Rmm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

What I can confirm is that as of last Friday Ansett’s Admin’s have requested up front payments for the use of AN engineering facilities and tooling.

Pardon me for asking the obvious, but how are you in a position to confirm this?

Response:

I work at AN engineering. The directive was passed onto me. All such requests from DJ are to go thru the duty manager, only once he has given approval can we lease out the equipment. In the past DJ completed an equipment lease form and this was approved by the local EIC. It never went as high as the duty manager in the past. Rmm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I can confirm is that as of last Friday Ansett’s Admin’s have requested up front payments for the use of AN engineering facilities and tooling. Pardon me for asking the obvious, but how are you in a position to confirm this?

Response:

Ben Your proof positive that the industry has not changed for the better . its rumour character assasination and innuendo . The ghost seating/booking thing appears to have some evidence though. AN11 will of course play hard ball with a competitor. Don’t sweat it Ben . But its a lot tighter for virgin now than this time last year. The fuel thing  may be many reasons for that  considering how much burn the companies took on ansett. Credit dept’s get twitchy at this  time of year when index blows out . — You Can get to the weekly pics page from here http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/caption/link.html http://cleaver.freeyellow.com/sad.html

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

Does "Ben" work for Quantas by any chance??? It seems that someone has being going to great lengths to spread rumours about VB according to the Australian today. Despite audited figures suggesting they actually made a profit, there still are persisting rumours about its imminent demise. I don’t work for any airline – and I fly my own plane whenever I can rather than use RPT, so I have other prejudices. I distrust much of the postings on the net – provide some evidence. Mick Muller ( And I always thought VB was my favourite drink anyway).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone confirm that Virgin have been paying upfront for fuel the last month and that they also owe the airports money and have been given 60days to pay? Other things I have heard is that QF have been buying many of their cheap seats with bogus names so that their on time performance is affected. I have also heard that they are no longe doing loads because CASA does not check this. Can anyone confirm these problems that Virgin are facing? I have been told this by senior Virgin ground crew in both MEL and BNE. I have been told a few other things, but nothing as substantial as the above. Apparently VB had a party when AN collapsed…. I wonder what ANII will do when Virgin bited the dust???

Response:

Question:

as a bidder i take the cost of shipping into account when i bid. if you stated 15dollars shipping plus handling on a item i thought was worth 100.00 in my hand then i would only bid 85.00 charge the fifteen, you paid for it in my underbid. elf

Response:

as a bidder i take the cost of shipping into account when i bid. if you stated 15dollars shipping plus handling on a item i thought was worth 100.00 in my hand then i would only bid 85.00 charge the fifteen, you paid for it in my underbid. elf

I assume you also never buy anything from catalogs or internet companies,or can you talk Amazon.com out of charging shipping costs?

Response:

I don’t disagree with the idea of free shipping but one problem  is with combining auctions.  I give bidders the option of combining auction winnings. I think that encourages them to bid in my other auctions.   I always have boxes with stuff in them with people’s names on it. They seem to appreciate this. Carol <A HREF="http://www.spminiatures.com"S P Miniatures </A

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As a buyer, I can tell you that I LOVE the idea of free shipping.  One of the sellers on line had multiple items listed with free shipping and the auctions all ended at the same time.  I purchased several items that I normally would not have bid on it there had been shipping costs associated with them.  All told, I ended up buying 5 items at the auctions which the seller can ship together in one priority mail box.  I called the seller and told him how much I liked the "free shipping/free insurance".  I probably spent a lot more on his auctions than I normally would have because I did not feel I would be "burned" by bidding on a low cost item and then paying high shipping charges.   On the flip side, I purchased a rock specimen that said "buyer pays actual shipping costs".  I do a lot of shopping on ebay and most of my items have a $3.20 shipping charge attached and are usually heavier than the item I bid on.  When I got the email from the seller, the S&H was almost $5, which was the price of the item itself.  Should I have emailed the seller and gotten actual shipping costs before I bid and "not assumed", heck yes but didn’t take the time.  Do I feel ripped off by the costs?  Yes, and I have made note of the seller and will not purchase future items from them. Personally as a buyer, I prefer auctions that say fixed charges instead of actual.  I sometimes don’t have a good grasp of how much an item really weighs, and frankly was shocked recently when a large rock specimen I purchased turned out to have a $15 shipping charge. Just the other side of the auction, Cynthia

Response:

I do not buy rocks on ebay but I have a feeling that shipping charges for a rock could get expensive. We have alot of rocks out here in the Texas hill country and they are all heavy We would have to raise prices to offer free shipping. I like fixed amounts and I tell bidder ahead of time what that is. I hate those little surprise shipping costs as a bibber as well, but as a seller I can’t afford to ship for people. Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a buyer, I can tell you that I LOVE the idea of free shipping.  One of the sellers on line had multiple items listed with free shipping and the auctions all ended at the same time.  I purchased several items that I normally would not have bid on it there had been shipping costs associated with them.  All told, I ended up buying 5 items at the auctions which the seller can ship together in one priority mail box.  I called the seller and told him how much I liked the "free shipping/free insurance".  I probably spent a lot more on his auctions than I normally would have because I did not feel I would be "burned" by bidding on a low cost item and then paying high shipping charges.   On the flip side, I purchased a rock specimen that said "buyer pays actual shipping costs".  I do a lot of shopping on ebay and most of my items have a $3.20 shipping charge attached and are usually heavier than the item I bid on.  When I got the email from the seller, the S&H was almost $5, which was the price of the item itself.  Should I have emailed the seller and gotten actual shipping costs before I bid and "not assumed", heck yes but didn’t take the time.  Do I feel ripped off by the costs?  Yes, and I have made note of the seller and will not purchase future items from them. Personally as a buyer, I prefer auctions that say fixed charges instead of actual.  I sometimes don’t have a good grasp of how much an item really weighs, and frankly was shocked recently when a large rock specimen I purchased turned out to have a $15 shipping charge. Just the other side of the auction, Cynthia

Response:

I owned a mail order company in the mid 80’s. I packed *LOTS* of boxes. That’s real work, as is the trips to the PO (particularly with the "Mail big packages in person" rules). What is the option to "mail big packages in person"? Do you have to hire a company which deals directly with the Post Office or something? Does the PO come to your company to pick them up?

I was speaking of the Post Office rule which requires that packages over a certain weight (what I called "big packages" – probably an inaccurate label) that are mailed with stamps must be mailed in person at the counter. It isn’t an option, it’s a rule. It’s an "anti-terrorism" action spurred by the Unabomber and general hysteria.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As an active seller, I feel that shipping cost should only be postage. The materials (which are usually free from the post office), the amount of time it takes to pack, and the trip to the post office (which is on my way to and from work) are trivial. I’d rather pass the savings on to my customers. Thank youfor helping these folks understand this Ed. Some people I have made sales to think the only cost is postage. I think you should just charge him what it actually costs.

   Boy,if I could just get all the vendors for my business to go    along with the above statement I could finally get that root canal:)

Response:

As an active seller, I feel that shipping cost should only be postage. The materials (which are usually free from the post office), the amount of time it takes to pack, and the trip to the post office (which is on my way to and from work) are trivial.

Well, some of us don’t get "free" shipping materials … my "shipping" cost includes the postage, and the cost of the envelope and a few pennies for the bubble wrap and the time (which is considerable) to wrap up the parcel and make sure that it gets to the recipient in the same condition it left me. So far I have had only one complaint about shipping … and it is an ongoing discussion from some guy in Canada who just can’t buy the fact that it is bloody expensive to ship within Canada itself!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank youfor helping these folks understand this Ed. Some people I have made sales to think the only cost is postage. I think you should just charge him what it actually costs. This, of course, opens up the debate as to "what it really costs". Certainly there is the postage/shipping fees. But there is also the cost of shipping materials (which may be $0, but not necessarily), the cost of your time to wrap the package up and the trip to the post office. All of these are factors. I don’t the value of the stamp on the box represents "what it really costs".

I owned a mail order company in the mid 80’s. I packed *LOTS* of boxes. That’s real work, as is the trips to the PO (particularly with the "Mail big packages in person" rules). Now if someone wants to waive those charges, fine. But what I object to is the moral high-horse people get up on about this subject. Free USPS containers aside, you still have other costs and you should recover them. Example: I just bought a couple of items (less than 2 lbs) from insight.com. They charged me $6.99 for UPS shipping.

Response:

I owned a mail order company in the mid 80’s. I packed *LOTS* of boxes. That’s real work, as is the trips to the PO (particularly with the "Mail big packages in person" rules).

What is the option to "mail big packages in person"? Do you have to hire a company which deals directly with the Post Office or something? Does the PO come to your company to pick them up?

Response:

Soon, after I started selling on Ebay, I switched to using USPS Priority Mail exclusively. One, because after I added up the cost for boxes, "bubble" mailers, etc. and then adding on the cost of first class, it came close to the cost of Priority with the free supplies. Two, it just simplified my life. If I know the weight of the item, I could calculate pretty easily what the shipping cost would be regardless of the destination. I have a friend who is an absolute fiend when it comes to excessive shipping costs. He REFUSES to buy an item if he thinks the seller is making extra on the shipping. Say an item is $100 at a store and $70 plus $19 shipping online. He won’t look at the absolute savings he might make. He’ll just get angry about the excessive shipping and refuse the buy online. Of course, sometimes I bite the bear, and sometimes the bear bites me. I just shipped two books, same weight, but different values to the west coast. My stated shipping in the auction was $6.00. The first book came to $6.45 Priority mail, insurance and delivery confirmation. The second came to $5.50 with the same. The only thing I paid extra for was the bubble wrap that encircled each item before it went into the PM (priority mail) box. I’ve messed up on shipping and had to eat $9-10 extra on some items. Fortunately, I’m getting better. I think if you nickle-dime people to death over shipping, it will just come back to haunt you. Just get it as close as you can and if you make a mistake just mark it up to experience. If you seriously overcharge someone accidentally on shipping (a dollar or more), refund the difference. They’ll leave you great feedback which can only make you look good. Oh, if I’m late getting an item out (it happens) I usually refund all the shipping. People who were mad at me turned around and left me great feedback. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As an active seller, I feel that shipping cost should only be postage. The materials (which are usually free from the post office), the amount of time it takes to pack, and the trip to the post office (which is on my way to and from work) are trivial. I’d rather pass the savings on to my customers. Thank youfor helping these folks understand this Ed. Some people I have made sales to think the only cost is postage. I think you should just charge him what it actually costs. This, of course, opens up the debate as to "what it really costs". Certainly there is the postage/shipping fees. But there is also the cost of shipping materials (which may be $0, but not necessarily), the cost of your time to wrap the package up and the trip to the post office. All of these are factors. I don’t the value of the stamp on the box represents "what it really costs".

Response:

Some may think I overcharge for shipping, but once the cost of materials and insurance, for which I self insure is added up its really not that unreasonable, and I do have return customers that are very happy. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Me myself, I would tell them I made a mistake. I couldn’t live with myself  if I didn’t tell them. If they notice the shipping was half what shoes? I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

Response:

I’ve had a complaint or 2 about shipping charges, and here is the way it should work. If you post what the shipping is, the bidder should be able to read the charge and take it into consideration when bidding. If they can’t they should not be bidding at all. Some bidders will email and ask you to drop the shipping charge a bit. Thats like saying yes I will take the house and signing all the paper work and then trying to get out of some charge you just sign up to.

No, it’s actually a bit like saying, "Look, I know you REALLY didn’t spend $1000 in recarpeting the living room; you probably got it on sale at Home Depot for $499.  Please reduce your price to actuals, or at least somewhere in the neighborhood of reality."  In home buying, it happens all the time; that’s what contract addendums are for. The upshot is that if YOU know you’re charging too much, you’d better believe your buyer does–or will, when they get the package.  Shipping charges should be reasonable, and what the buyer pays needs to be close to reality–for example, you should NEVER charge your buyer PM and then send it 1st class or lower.  You should never charge more than $1 over postage unless your item is REALLY fragile, and even then you might think about building packaging costs into the opening bid. I’m trying "free shipping" auctions this week–postage and eBay fees built into the starting bid, with nothing extra charged to the buyer at the end–and it’s doing quite well.  A couple of items have really taken off, in fact.  I think it may be due to the "Free Shipping In U.S." tag–the buyer, knowing that the $10 Barbie they’re buying won’t end up being closer to $15 when they win, may be willing to actually BID $15. http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy AOL IM:  kimmurphy   ICQ:  32992711 Try out my new zine, THE HOT CORNER! http://members.aol.com/hczine POWER STAR Archives has moved!  http://psarchives.webjump.com

Response:

Hi All I think free or actual cost shipping charges are a great way to encourage people to bid on an auction. Right now I am experimenting with low or no shipping charge. At the same time I have often used a "shipping" charge that included shipping, packing, insurance and handling. Some my auctions are with a partner and he feels it is simpler for our accounting for me to charge a total cost shipping charge. I think each seller needs to find out what works best in their catagories and with their style. In this case the buyer actual knew the exact cost of shipping ahead of time and bid accordingly. They already knew their total ahead of bidding. What I would do is send them payment instructions and let them respond. If they asked I would reduce the charge but not to actual shipping cost, most likely to 1/2 in between. It seems to me it is rather unfair to bidder #2 to sell to bidder #1 at price that is likely lower than their bid. This idea that shipping has to be actual cost is kind of silly. It is kind of like saying reserves have to be 1/2 of what you paid for the item. One thing that is important is if you charge more than actual shipping you need to post it in the auction. Anyway thanks all. Dave * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I think you should just charge him what it actually costs.

This, of course, opens up the debate as to "what it really costs". Certainly there is the postage/shipping fees. But there is also the cost of shipping materials (which may be $0, but not necessarily), the cost of your time to wrap the package up and the trip to the post office. All of these are factors. I don’t the value of the stamp on the box represents "what it really costs".

Response:

Thank youfor helping these folks understand this Ed. Some people I have made sales to think the only cost is postage.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you should just charge him what it actually costs. This, of course, opens up the debate as to "what it really costs". Certainly there is the postage/shipping fees. But there is also the cost of shipping materials (which may be $0, but not necessarily), the cost of your time to wrap the package up and the trip to the post office. All of these are factors. I don’t the value of the stamp on the box represents "what it really costs".

Response:

As an active seller, I feel that shipping cost should only be postage. The materials (which are usually free from the post office), the amount of time it takes to pack, and the trip to the post office (which is on my way to and from work) are trivial. I’d rather pass the savings on to my customers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank youfor helping these folks understand this Ed. Some people I have made sales to think the only cost is postage. I think you should just charge him what it actually costs. This, of course, opens up the debate as to "what it really costs". Certainly there is the postage/shipping fees. But there is also the cost of shipping materials (which may be $0, but not necessarily), the cost of your time to wrap the package up and the trip to the post office. All of these are factors. I don’t the value of the stamp on the box represents "what it really costs".

– Dave Christian Go ahead a spam me.  I’ll just knock you off like the other 94!

Response:

I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

Response:

I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

Just charge them the actual shipping.  You can even tell them in the notice that you goofed on the original shipping cost.   This would fall under good business practices. Norm K

Response:

Me myself, I would tell them I made a mistake. I couldn’t live with myself  if I didn’t tell them. If they notice the shipping was half what shoes? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

Response:

Larry, you obviously don’t have a lot of repeat buyers.  As a buyer I agree to pay the outrageous shipping people like you prefer to charge. In return I expect:   1)decent shipping materials, 2)courteous service, 3)USPS Priority Mail or equivalent, and 4)top-rate packing materials. If you want the extra money why don’t you add it to the price of your item?  Shipping charges are a fine, gray line.  Sellers don’t see the other side of the coin buyers face.  When someone charges me $6 to ship something and it gets here with a label for $2.30 with horrible packaging I am unhappy and will say so in my feedback so others know what to expect.  Now, if someone charges $6 and it arrives in a Priority Mail box and is packaged well, then I am happy because I know they have taken the time to treat my item carefully.  As a seller, I realize there are charges and time involved with shipping a package, especially if you have to purchase new packaging materials… this is part of business.  You can’t expect to run a business without a little overhead.  I am a repeat buyer and once I find a seller who is fair I will stick with them.  It works both ways.  Of course, being an old eBay regular I have learned my lesson in too many ways… I always send the seller an email inquiring about the type of shipping and what is being charged for the always bogus ‘handling fee’.  If I don’t like it I don’t bid, but there are a lot of new people who will feel ripped off by high shipping charges and low actual cost.  I don’t think it is good business practice to insure you have no repeat business because of a few dollars.  Was it really that important to you to have that extra $2 or $3?     -Marsema- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve had a complaint or 2 about shipping charges, and here is the way it should work. If you post what the shipping is, the bidder should be able to read the charge and take it into consideration when bidding. If they can’t they should not be bidding at all. Some bidders will email and ask you to drop the shipping charge a bit. Thats like saying yes I will take the house and signing all the paper work and then trying to get out of some charge you just sign up to. Just my thoughts. I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship. I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I think you should just charge him what it actually costs. But you probably lost a few bids because of the high shipping cost. I’ve done that before and HATE it! says… I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

– Dave Christian Go ahead a spam me.  I’ll just knock you off like the other 94!

Response:

I’ve had a complaint or 2 about shipping charges, and here is the way it should work. If you post what the shipping is, the bidder should be able to read the charge and take it into consideration when bidding. If they can’t they should not be bidding at all. Some bidders will email and ask you to drop the shipping charge a bit. Thats like saying yes I will take the house and signing all the paper work and then trying to get out of some charge you just sign up to. Just my thoughts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

Response:

I believe it’s a matter of ethics. You should cut your shipping charge to the buyer.  You end up with the profit you expected and the buyer will really feel good about his purchase and you as a seller. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)? Thomas

Response:

I just had an auction close for a $26 item.  Because of a cut & paste error (I was using the html & text from another old listing) I inadvertently left the shipping at $15.  It will probably cost half that to ship.  I DID note that amount of shipping on the auction page, and "Buyer pays fixed amount" was checked. My question:  Should I revise the shipping amount down when I contact the winning bidder, or should I take the extra profit (since I was hoping for a better price anyway)?

I have a similar cut and paste operation with my blab. Sometimes if the item is close to the cut off weight for a certain category, I make it the high price in the blab, but I will take it to the post office and determine what the real weight is before notifying the winner. This doesn’t happen that often, my scale is pretty accurate. I have therefore dropped the shipping price from the advertised amount a few times, I don’t think anyone has ever thanked me for this even when I told them I was doing it!!

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Question:

*Sometimes??? LOL….. i’m a bean counter, words are always getting me into *trouble! Q. Know how many accountants it takes to change a lightbulb? A. What sort of answer did you have in mind? <s *aaahhh, a challenge…… ok, a keen obsever of the beauty of life outdoors? From my easy chair, sure.  I like to look out the window – when there’s nothing good on tv.

Don’t bother Gene, it’s crappy today. Stick with the TV. IT’S crappy too, but at least you expect that Beav

Response:

*eh….. Don’t you just hate that sometimes?

Sometimes??? LOL….. i’m a bean counter, words are always getting me into trouble! *Gene, you might want to try activity instead of that vile E word <vbg That’s what everyone keeps telling me.  Problem is, I don’t WANT to try activity!

aaahhh, a challenge…… ok, a keen obsever of the beauty of life outdoors? Peanut free, and proud to be! Be well, travel with a light heart and and good control. Gene Goldman  (drinking Aspertame-laden soft drinks with reckless abandon) Type 2, Diet & [insert that vile "E" word here] – so far, so what Does Diabetes cause Aspertame?  Stay tuned to this ng for up-to-the-minute details. Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request

advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap! And in case I don’t see ya’ – Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!

and Good Luck! — k t1 13 yrs now sending as Tiger Lily

Response:

*Sometimes??? LOL….. i’m a bean counter, words are always getting me into *trouble! Q. Know how many accountants it takes to change a lightbulb? A. What sort of answer did you have in mind? <s *aaahhh, a challenge…… ok, a keen obsever of the beauty of life outdoors? From my easy chair, sure.  I like to look out the window – when there’s nothing good on tv. Peanut free, and proud to be!   Be well, travel with a light heart and and good control. Gene Goldman  (drinking Aspertame-laden soft drinks with reckless abandon) Type 2, Diet & [insert that vile "E" word here] – so far, so what Does Diabetes cause Aspertame?  Stay tuned to this ng for up-to-the-minute details. Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap! And in case I don’t see ya’ – Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!

Response:

Gene, my brothers 1…. mathematician and chem engineer                              2….. oilfield something engineer and systems mgr both have another version of that joke!!! LOL….. answer being……. what would YOU like it to be? — k t1 13 yrs now sending as Tiger Lily

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *Sometimes??? LOL….. i’m a bean counter, words are always getting me into *trouble! Q. Know how many accountants it takes to change a lightbulb? A. What sort of answer did you have in mind? <s *aaahhh, a challenge…… ok, a keen obsever of the beauty of life outdoors? From my easy chair, sure.  I like to look out the window – when there’s nothing good on tv. Peanut free, and proud to be! Be well, travel with a light heart and and good control. Gene Goldman  (drinking Aspertame-laden soft drinks with reckless abandon) Type 2, Diet & [insert that vile "E" word here] – so far, so what Does Diabetes cause Aspertame?  Stay tuned to this ng for up-to-the-minute details. Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request

advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And in case I don’t see ya’ – Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!

Response:

*eh….. Don’t you just hate that sometimes? *Gene, you might want to try activity instead of that vile E word <vbg That’s what everyone keeps telling me.  Problem is, I don’t WANT to try activity!   Peanut free, and proud to be!   Be well, travel with a light heart and and good control. Gene Goldman  (drinking Aspertame-laden soft drinks with reckless abandon) Type 2, Diet & [insert that vile "E" word here] – so far, so what Does Diabetes cause Aspertame?  Stay tuned to this ng for up-to-the-minute details. Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap! And in case I don’t see ya’ – Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!

Response:

Ok everybody.  After several comments on my sig line, and my inconsiderate focus on only one aspect of diabetes, I have modified my sig to accomodate everyone here – I hope.  Please forgive my previous lack of concern, but understand that I am euphamistically impared. I welcome your comments, and will consider future adjustments. Be well, travel with a light heart and good control. Gene Goldman   Type 2, Diet, Aspertame & [insert that vile "E" word here] – so far, so what Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap!

Response:

eh….. Gene, you might want to try activity instead of that vile E word <vbg — k t1 13 yrs now sending as Tiger Lily

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok everybody.  After several comments on my sig line, and my inconsiderate focus on only one aspect of diabetes, I have modified my sig to accomodate everyone here – I hope.  Please forgive my previous lack of concern, but understand that I am euphamistically impared. I welcome your comments, and will consider future adjustments. Be well, travel with a light heart and good control. Gene Goldman Type 2, Diet, Aspertame & [insert that vile "E" word here] – so far, so what Anyone inferring from my posting a Usenet message that I thereby request

advertisements, spam, or unsolicited offers for goods or services will be invoiced for my usual and customary consulting fees, and I do NOT come cheap!

Response:

Question:

Our company is currently evaluating the Forefront package.  We are in a specialized contracting business similar to ec.  Anyone have experience with this system? Input would be appreciated

Response:

Hi John, I was trained by Dexter+Chaney, what would you like to know? It is a full featured accounting/costing/reporting package. The up and running time depends on what your budget is for training. It is capable of great detail and can be very useful. Let me know if I can answer any specific questions. Take Care, Robert Our company is currently evaluating the Forefront package.  We are in a specialized contracting business similar to ec.  Anyone have experience with this system? Input would be appreciated

– =="Forgive them, for they know not what they do."== http://www.concentric.net/~romanxx ++++++Remove the NOSPAM for email++++++

Response:

Question:

Hello, I had a PC that was running DOS 6 and Windows 3.1, connecting to and running Great Plains Accounting version 7 for DOS  from a Novell server.  This worked fine. But when I upgraded the PC and put in Windows NT Workstation 4.0, GPS stopped working.  The startup screen comes up but it kicks me out to DOS right away. Is there a compatibility problem with NT? Thanks.

Response:

Betcha got caught by the "ain’t no btrieve" bug. Netware has a run-time btrieve and I believe your system uses btrieve. No btrieve; no system running. Hopefully, someone will know its a different problem. Otherwise, the solution is to buy btrieve. Not fun. Dana

Response:

Dana suggested you need Btrieve.  I’m guessing that’s partially true, but I doubt your version of Great Plains will be able to use the Btrieve engine that runs on NT.  If you are also using an old enough version of Great Plains to run on Windows 3.1, it may be a 16-bit program, which would be another problem.  I’m afraid your solution may be to upgrade to the latest from GPS. David Blumhorst DBConsulting – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I had a PC that was running DOS 6 and Windows 3.1, connecting to and running Great Plains Accounting version 7 for DOS  from a Novell server.  This worked fine. But when I upgraded the PC and put in Windows NT Workstation 4.0, GPS stopped working.  The startup screen comes up but it kicks me out to DOS right away. Is there a compatibility problem with NT? Thanks.

Response:

I can’t remember the exact version numbers, but I don’t believe that Great Plains Accounting became compatible with Windows NT until either verison 7.1 or 8.0.  The current version 9.1 definately is.  You might want to consider upgrading, especially since Great Plains no longer supports version 7.0 anyway. Alan C. Whitehouse The Resource Group Renton, WA Great Plains Software VAR & ISV – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dana suggested you need Btrieve.  I’m guessing that’s partially true, but I doubt your version of Great Plains will be able to use the Btrieve engine that runs on NT.  If you are also using an old enough version of Great Plains to run on Windows 3.1, it may be a 16-bit program, which would be another problem.  I’m afraid your solution may be to upgrade to the latest from GPS. David Blumhorst DBConsulting Hello, I had a PC that was running DOS 6 and Windows 3.1, connecting to and running Great Plains Accounting version 7 for DOS  from a Novell server.  This worked fine. But when I upgraded the PC and put in Windows NT Workstation 4.0, GPS stopped working.  The startup screen comes up but it kicks me out to DOS right away. Is there a compatibility problem with NT? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

I have a client that has some very strange and unusual problems with a new account package installation.  They just went to Open Windows and are recieving errors in two modules of the accounting package.           Payroll         PATIMINI – Sector Out Of Range BBx 7         Accounts Recievable     ? Sales Journal                                            Basic Error 47 Line 3062                                            Prog ARPRJ1                                            3062 Let xx$=tf8$(1.26)                                            Substring Out Of Range If any one has any idea of what this just might be it would be greatly appreciated.  OSAS says that it a hardware issue and have no idea what it means…..  which really helps me a hell of a lot. Thanks in advance; Stephen

Response:

What bull.  Substring out of range is an error immediately recognizable to anyone who has written software, particularly in BASIC.  This is a very specific message, and while I haven’t used basic in 20 years (nor would I), there is no question that this error is a programming error.  At the very least, it GIVES THE APPEARANCE of being a bug rather than a "hardware issue".  While you can never rule out the possibility of a damaged module, the second error, in particular would be highly unlikely to result from anything other than a bug. You really need to re-think this package.  Bugs can happen, but this one is amateurish, and their response to it is even more so.  One really wants to question whether it makes sense to build a database within a system that is subject to unexpected stoppage with such BS from the vendor. David Ray, CPA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a client that has some very strange and unusual problems with a new account package installation.  They just went to Open Windows and are recieving errors in two modules of the accounting package.           Payroll         PATIMINI – Sector Out Of Range BBx 7         Accounts Recievable     ? Sales Journal                                            Basic Error 47 Line 3062                                            Prog ARPRJ1                                            3062 Let xx$=tf8$(1.26)                                            Substring Out Of Range If any one has any idea of what this just might be it would be greatly appreciated.  OSAS says that it a hardware issue and have no idea what it means…..  which really helps me a hell of a lot. Thanks in advance; Stephen

Response:

Question:

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1=BE=00=00=00=AB=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=D0d=00=00=CB=00=D8=00=D8=00=D9=00= DA= =00=DA=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00 = =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00 = =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=DB=00=00=00=00=00 = =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00 = =00PROSPER INTERNATIONAL LEAGUE LTD. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUES  TIONS (FAQ’S) OR = ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE BELIZE PROSPER TRUST                                                                         PIL= L iD #  6932 Q – WHAT IS A TRUST AND WHEN DID IT BEGIN? A – Originally developed in the English Courts in Medieval times. In essenc= e a trust is an arrangement, an agreement whereby one person a "SETTLOR" ca= uses a second person, "TRUSTEE" to become the legal owner of property which=  he holds for the benefit of a third person the, "BENEFICIARY". The Trust p= roperty may include anything which is capable of being transferred such as = land, buildings, money, shares, bonds (including shares of offshore compani= es). Q – WHY WOULD I WANT TO SET UP A TRUST IN AN OFFSHORE COUNTRY? A.  If you like the idea of having a Trust, let me explain why another coun= try could be advantageous to your financial well  being. In the united Stat= es of America, there are so many UNCLEAR rules, statutes and codes that peo= ple believe are all laws. Everyone seems to believe in different ways when = it comes to the laws of income tax reporting, citizenship and sovereignty, = to name a few. This creates a host of problems for those of us that insist = on living under Common Law as we do. Even though a Common Law Trust is writ= ten to be used as the basis of business dealings and ownership of assets, y= ou may end up dealing with certain uneducated people anyway. This can cause=  you undue hardship and inconvenience. However, with an Offshore Trust, if = a problem arises, you simply notify the interested parties that they’re dea= ling with an Offshore entity and that eliminates half of the problems they = think exist. The other half of the problems will probably go away once they=  realize they’ll have to hire a Belizean attorney to pursue it any further.= Q –  WHY WOULD I WANT TO CHOOSE BELIZE OVER ANY OTHER COUNTRY? A.  The Belizean Law on Trusts, specifically called the Belize Trusts Act, = 1992 is EXTREMELY CLEAR on what is allowed and what is not. It makes writin= g an Offshore Trust much more practical. It leaves very little room for unc= ertainty. In 1992, Belize rewrote their laws to be more clear, concise and = above all, more in tune to what people are desiring of an Offshore entity. = They have some of the most liberal laws I’ve seen for Offshore Trusts that = give you so much more flexibility in what can be done. They are an English = speaking country. They are actively seeking the offshore business, and rapi= dly becoming on of the best tax havens! Their confidentiality and privacy l= aws have been recently tested and the Belize courts have stood squarely beh= ind them. Q –  HOW CLEAR IS THE BELIZEAN LAW ON TRUSTS? A.  The law of Belize is VERY CLEAR AND UNDERSTANDABLE in all facets of dea= ling with Trusts. It eliminates the confusion that exists in Trusts written=  in the United States of America. Q – ARE THERE ANY HIDDEN COSTS THAT I WILL INCUR IN SETTLING AN OFFSHORE TR= UST IN BELIZE? A.  Absolutely not! The only additional cost is a nominal annual maintenanc= e fee paid to the Trustee. Q – WHAT IS MEANT BY AN "EXEMPT" TRUST? A.  It simply means that you are not taxed by Belize on the income that the=  Trust earns. The Trust is also not taxed on capital gains nor is any duty = charged on any estate through the Trust. Q – WHAT DETERMINES AN "EXEMPT" TRUST? A.  The SETTLOR, PROTECTOR and BENEFICIARY may not be resident of Belize, a= ny portion of any calendar year, in order to remain an exempt Trust. Q – HOW SAFE IS AN OFFSHORE TRUST A.  The risk you take with any Offshore Trust is that the country is going = to remain stable enough for you to maintain constant access to your dollar = account. Because Belize has a stable economy and was founded on English Com= mon Law, it’s biggest advantage is it’s clarity in the system of developed = law. As a former British  Crown Colony, they adopted the Common Law of Engl= and and thereby inherited what some believe to be the greatest and most  di= stinctive achievement performed by Englishmen in the field of jurisprudence= , which is the most outstanding creation of equity, the Trust. Q – WHO KEEPS COPIES OF THE TRUSTS THAT I CREATE? A.  The only copy in exis= tence is the one you have. Q – HOW PRIVATE ARE THE RECORDS? A.  Think about it. The records are extremely private and confidential and = protected by the laws of Belize. If anyone wants to pursue the Trust with a=  lawsuit, they’d have to rely on information being available in Belize. The= y would have to track down the Trustee of the Trust, wherever they may be a= nd pursue in the courts of Belize and subject to the laws of Belize. The ju= risdiction may be moved by the Trustee and the Protector to further confuse=  the issue. Q – DO I NEED A TRUSTEE FROM BELIZE? A.  No, that is not necessary. Under the terms of this Trust, a resident of=  Belize is not necessary to perform the role of the TRUSTEE. The TRUSTEE ca= n be resident of any other country in the world.                                                                                        =                                                                                                 = Q – CAN I STILL USE MY OWN ASSOCIATES TO FILL THE KEY POSITIONS OF THE TRUS= T? A.  Yes, however, we do not recommend that you take this approach. Our Beli= zian Trustee has been selected after years of due diligence and we stand be= hind him 100%. Q – DOES THE DEATH OF ANY PERSON AFFECT THE TAXES OF THE TRUST? A.  No! The Trust is not liable for any estate, inheritance, succession or = gift tax or duty by reason of any death in a calendar year. Q – WHO IS THE TRUSTEE OF THE TRUSTS WE CREATE? A.  P.I.L.L. recommends that you appoint Belize Offshore Services LTD.  Dav= id Jenkins is the President. However, you  may appoint anyone you wish. Q – IS THERE A NEED FOR ME TO OBTAIN AN AGENT IN BELIZE?   A. No, P.I.L.L.&=  Belize Offshore Services LTD. has already done this. Q – WHO HAS A VESTED INTEREST IN THE TRUST FUNDS? A.  Only the TRUSTEES, no= t individually, but collectively as the Board of Trustees. Q – CAN THE TRUST BE IN EXISTENCE FOR MORE THAN 120 YEARS? A.  No. 120 years is the limit. It can be established for a shorter period = of time but the maximum is 120 years, with no exceptions. Q – HOW DO I GAIN CONTROL OF THE TRUST? A.  You should not be in control,  that is what makes a trust vulnerable. Y= ou should only use the "Letter of Wishes" to your Trustee. Q – IS THIS AN IRREVOCABLE OR REVOCABLE TRUST? A.  This is an IRREVOCABLE Trust, meaning that the SETTLOR can not change h= is mind and take control over his property again or withdraw the terms of t= he contractual agreement between him and the TRUSTEE. Q – IS THIS TRUST THE SAME AS A PURE TRUST THAT WE WOULD FIND IN THE U.S.? A.  No, this can not be compared to the Pure Trust offered in the U.S. beca= use Belizean Laws are written differently and they purposely address new is= sues that are of concern to modern business persons.  Belizean Law was comp= letely revised in 1992 for the specific purpose of attracting new Trust bus= iness that would satisfy those modern requests and situations. Q – WHAT IS THE JURISDICTIONAL LAW OF THE TRUST?        A.  The jurisdictional law=  of the Trust is the Trust Act of Belize, 1992. Q –  CAN I CHANGE THE JURISDICTION OF THE TRUST TO ANOTHER COUNTRY IF I FEE= L THE NEED? A.  Most certainly! That’s one thing that is so great! For protection, the = TRUSTEE can change the jurisdictional law of the Trust, at will. This is on= ly one way to keep litigants at bay, endlessly. The Protector may also perf= orm this function. Q –  WHAT IS MEANT BY A "SPENDTHRIFT" OR "PROTECTIVE" TRUST? A.  In the event that the BENEFICIARY becomes insolvent or any part of his = property becomes liable to seizure or sequestration for the benefit of his = creditors, the Trust has the right to minimize the BENEFICIARY’s interest i= n Trust funds to a degree necessary to prevent such action from hindering t= he smooth operation of the Trust. It is designed to protect the BENEFICIARY=  against his own incompetence or inability to properly handle money or prop= erty. Q – DOES THE TRUSTEE NEED TO BE BONDED? A. The laws of Belize have not required bonding until recently. Belize Offs= hore Services LTD. as Trustee is in the process of obtaining a bond. Q – HOW DO I GET MY CURRENT INCOME SHIFTED TO THE TRUST? A.  There are a couple of ways to do this. One is to ask your employer to p= ay the Trust directly for work that you perform. Most of the time, this won= ‘t work because the employers (or payroll clerks)  are not familiar with Tr= usts and they get scared.  If you are an independent contractor, this shoul= d be easier to do. Simply have the employer pay the Trust, using the Trust = EIN instead of your own Social Security Number. If you are self-employed, you have the easiest method to set this up. You e= stablish that you are working FOR the Trust as an independent contractor an= d not an employee. Your pay can be in the form of money in addition to bene= fits like paying your rent, light bill, etc. Q – HOW DO I RECEIVE COMPENSATION FROM THE TRUST FOR MY SERVICES PERFORMED?= A.  This is best done as an agreement, in writing, and documented in the Tr= ust Minutes, that you are an independent contractor working for the Trust i= n whatever capacity you have chosen. Spell out the details as to how you ar= e to be paid, whether it’s based on a pay schedule or as a commission / per= centage    structure, etc. or some combination of all the above. The whole = thing is really up to you. How do you WANT to be paid? Put it down in writi= ng. Q – HOW MUCH CAN THE TRUST … read more »

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Miami, Florida

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Question:

  The boat I use most often up here is a Hobie 16 (which I’m selling if anyone is interested.  I got a deal I couldn’t refuse on a Hobie 18) Mainly for curiosity (I’m a bit too far to visit…) how much are you asking for your Hobie 16? Thanks,

   Always glad to satisfy curiousity.  I’m asking $1,100.  The sales season here is just starting and the only other one I’ve seen was listed at $1,500. I’ve seen ads in other areas in the $2,000-2,500 range and have seen them here as low as $900 but the sails were shot and there was obvious structural damage. I got a good price on the 18 and just want to make the change as quickly as possible.  Besides I’m running out of storage space for the sailing toys I already have.         Steve   "I’m really a sailor, I just _do_ accounting."

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Steve , BRAVO on your posting. Although I never have Ice sailed , I have watched in amazement.  Great for you. Peace Johnny …. another sailor who just does accounting …. s/v Lady K

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  The boat I use most often up here is a Hobie 16 (which I’m selling if anyone is interested.  I got a deal I couldn’t refuse on a Hobie 18)

Mainly for curiosity (I’m a bit too far to visit…) how much are you asking for your Hobie 16? Thanks, — Pierluigi Miraglia                      | Youngstown, OH

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   Particularly at this time of year east-central Indiana is certainly not a sailing mecca and I often find myself in need of a sailing fix that I can’t get by heading south for a charter.  The past two weekends I’ve gotten a great fix because conditions were right for a change, to use a small ice boat I bought a couple of years ago.  The boat itself is nothing fancy, it was made probably 35 years ago from Popular Mechanics plans using 2×4’s and 2×8’s, angle iron for runners and hardware store pulleys and shackles rather than marine grade.  The sail that came with it is homemade from muslin sheeting and is probably about 45 square feet.  To make the ride more interesting I used a Sunfish sail (75 square feet).    The boat I use most often up here is a Hobie 16 (which I’m selling if anyone is interested.  I got a deal I couldn’t refuse on a Hobie 18) and I got the same kind of rush as I flew across the lake that I do on a good Hobie run.  The sound of the runners chattering on rough ice, the side-slip when a puff hits you on smooth ice and the skidding stops with a spray of ice when you swing it into the wind for a quick stop are quite different but give the same kind of pleasure.  It’s amazing how much less tiresome the past two Mondays have been. I think part of that stems from the runs where I could sit out on the outrigger and lean back so I could savor that perfect blue of a crisp day against the white of the sail and the scattered puffy clouds and jet vapor trails.  Perhaps it’s a sign of an overactive imagination but I could feel the warmth of the summer sun through all the layers and the same peaceful feeling that the refreshing water, hot sun and fresh breezes provide.    And so they ask, what’s the point?  If you have to ask, there probably isn’t one.  For me it just felt so good to be sailing again, even if the water was a little harder than I like, and I wanted to share that.  If there are others out there who get frustrated with the long span between sailing seasons, I wanted to give an idea of a way to relieve it without the high cost of a class ice boat.  I’d like to have a nice DN but for the occassional use in this climate, I just can’t justify the cost.  I’m sure there are other plans out there or many libraries have magazines such as Popular Mechanics on fiche for many years back.  Most of the construction on mine could be done in a pretty basic wood shop.    The warm winds are returning and in the meantime, if there isn’t safe ice, I’ll sip a margarita and listen to Jimmy for my (mental) trip to warmer climes. Fair winds.  Take care.         Steve           "I’m really a sailor, I just _do_ accounting."

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Question:

C    Why does everyone think you have to be good at math program computers?  That’s like saying you have to be good at english to do jigsaw puzzles! As  I programmer I can honestly say I use no more math to write my programs than  you guys do to read this message. I consider programing akin to mystery  solving and jigsaw puzzles doing, combined. I know what the final "picture"  should be, but it’s a mystery where all the pieces are <G C            Chris probably because of the binary stuff or god forbid those hex things. It’s an older perception that computers are having trouble breaking — but in digital land that concept is I agree from the dinosaur age…. —  * OLX 1.52 * Around this place nobody plays with a full deck!

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Sorry, I don’t have the source of the following: C    Why does everyone think you have to be good at math program computers?  That’s like saying you have to be good at english to do jigsaw puzzles! As  I programmer I can honestly say I use no more math to write my programs than  you guys do to read this message. I consider programing akin to mystery  solving and jigsaw puzzles doing, combined. I know what the final "picture"  should be, but it’s a mystery where all the pieces are <G C            Chris

I agree – I’m an electrical engineer and other than for my licensing exams I’ve used higher math (complex numbers, in this case) exactly once professionally.  Otherwise I occassionally need some tenth grade geometry or eleventh grade trig, and that’s it!  I do know some programmers do some narly statistics, and a few doing radar or navigational control that need more math, but they’re few and far between.  It amazes me that people are afraid of computers or engineering because they’re not good at math! probably because of the binary stuff or god forbid those hex things. It’s an older perception that computers are having trouble breaking — but in digital land that concept is I agree from the dinosaur age…. —

OK, I have used octal a lot –  I was reading so many core dumps at one point that in balancing my checking book, I substracted 1 from 10 and got 7!!!  But we were debugging a new operating system, not an everyday occurence.

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I missed the original article so I’m replying to this. Sorry, I don’t have the source of the following: C    Why does everyone think you have to be good at math program computers?  That’s like saying you have to be good at english to do jigsaw puzzles! As  I programmer I can honestly say I use no more math to write my programs than  you guys do to read this message. I consider programing akin to mystery  solving and jigsaw puzzles doing, combined. I know what the final "picture"  should be, but it’s a mystery where all the pieces are <G C            Chris

I have to disagree.  While it is -possible- to program without a good knowledge of math, your options are limitted, /and/ a good knowledge of math helps.  The first is the issue of what you program.  If you are writing, for example, a game, chances are the math being used is pretty limitted.  However, I work in video compression, and there is an awful lot of detailed mathematical analysis!  The reason why math helps with *all* programming is that while you aren’t directly using the math, the methods used to work mathematical problems are similar to the methods used to program.  A course in geometry is very easy for someone who can program because the main thing being taught isn’t the geometry, it’s how to do simple, small steps in a proof… very similar to writing a computer program.   Tyrie My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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I have to disagree.  While it is -possible- to program without a good …

This is interesting, but, what does it have to do with needlepoint? Did I miss something?

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Hi Tyrie! I also missed the original article, and (as a programmer with 15 (gasp) yrs experience), I definitely agree with you on the math thing.  I write statistical software (actually, I handle the graphical output).  Anyway, have you noticed that programmers in general are very creative people? I’ve been studying (!) this for a long time, and it seems to be a necessary asset for a good programmer.                    Colleen

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: Hi Tyrie! : I also missed the original article, and (as a programmer with 15 (gasp) : yrs experience), I definitely agree with you on the math thing.  I write : statistical software (actually, I handle the graphical output).  Anyway, : have you noticed that programmers in general are very creative people? : I’ve been studying (!) this for a long time, and it seems to be a : necessary asset for a good programmer.   Colleen, I think it boils down to the fact that stitchers are "problem solvers" by nature.  Programming is just one example of "problem solving".  I’m an accountant and I find that the entire accounting process is the result of a need to solve a problem.   Getting from "A" to "B" is one of the things that we do all the time in counted cross stitch.  Planning ways to get that one last stitch out of a length of floss that doesn’t want to stretch that far…How to get into the corner of this segment to work one stitch without having floss trailing all over china and back…Problem Solving.         Deborah P.S.- Does anyone know of a more adept "Problem Solver" than women/Mothers????

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Hi Colleen – The original discussion was about other things we liked to do. There seemed to be a lots of common past-times, including jigsaw puzzles and other so-called logical/problem solving techniques. Someone (I forget who) had said something to the effect that "I’ld never make a programmer, I can do math". I had counted that math was NOT neccessary to programming. I’ve been programing form 15 years (gasp has it really been that long?) WHen I was in the "real world" I support an engineering drawing tree and (another job another place) support a shop floor, and again supporting a so-called "Human engineering" lab. None of these positions required much math. Now that I work/program from home I still don’t use that much math. My CCS program doesn’t use much math, except when I wanted figure out how to change the size of the pattern. Some semi-complicated equations, but basically it’s addition, subtration, mulitplication and division. So I guess it depends on your application as to the amount of math you need. I just don’t think that any of the talented people here should NOT try their hands at programming because they think it needs a lot of math. And, yes we are creative, aren’t we?                 Chris

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Been watching this thread and have to jump in. — In actuality I think you did use a lot of math in your programming — because math is a language and a system of thinking and problem solving and programming certainly is problem solving.  Maybe you didn’t use a lot of formal algebra and geometry or arithmetic but mathematics is not just these things. However, I agree that people shouldn’t limit themselves on trying programming because they THINK they are bad at math — more people THINK they are bad at math than really ARE bad at math — particularly women who have often been taught by our society that they can’t do math when in fact if they wanted to they easily could.   Certainly anyone who can work with the spatial relationships of design and can read complex graphs and charts is NOT bad at math. Just my $.02 — but then I teach math and computer programming and may be prejudiced about the connection.

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Been watching this thread and have to jump in. — In actuality I think you did use a lot of math in your programming — because math is a language and a system of thinking and problem solving and programming certainly is problem solving.  Maybe you didn’t use a lot of formal algebra and geometry or arithmetic but mathematics is not just these things. However, I agree that people shouldn’t limit themselves on trying programming because they THINK they are bad at math — more people THINK they are bad at math than really ARE bad at math — particularly women who have often been taught by our society that they can’t do math when in fact if they wanted to they easily could.  

I tend to agree by my own example.  When I was a kid, I was pretty darn good at math.  Once I reached the algebra level, I started doing mediocre and then quite poorly.  I then started to hate math and concentrated on the humanities for a while.  Later, I got interested in computers and decided to give math another try.  I signed up for trigonometry and got an A and enjoyed the class.  I went on into studying calculus and did very well in those classes too.  While my computer programming skills are still somewhat crappy right now, my math classes have been great.  I also have to give credit to the math instructors I had in those classes.  They were wonderful.  I realized that up until that point, I hadn’t had very good math instructors and that they were probably part of the reason I’d had such bad luck with math before.  Of course, once I got the attitude that I disliked math, I was hopeless until I managed to change that attitude; so, one’s attitude is important too.  Given the right encouragement, math is not a hopeless case for anyone.   I imagine my programming skills will follow that success eventually, even though they seem to be taking the darndest long time about it. I’m not sure about the connection between my liking math again and liking crosstitch.  I got into crosstitch because it looked interesting and I wanted a creative outlet in which I could produce something to show for all my creativity.  My other creative outlets seem more intellectual in one sense or another and I wanted to do something with which I could get my hands dirty.  (Well, not literally, but…)   Then again, my frustration with some of my computer classes could have been the main reason I was driven to try stitching and other related activities.  So perhaps there is a connection there somewhere. — Bekki Lyn _Raving Dionysian_  & Representative of the Air Element                      of NCSU’s              SOCIETY OF PAGANISM & MAGICK "Drums, guitars, and death.  They finally got it right."  – BH —

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Actually, I think programming has more to do with logic than math. On the other hand alot of advanced math is based on logic (mathematical proofs), rather than arithmetic, which is what alot of people think of when you say math.  In college I was a math major.  Our class slogan was: "I can’t add, I’m a Math major".  I think after the beginning calculus courses, I rarely dealt with numbers that were larger than 10 that we’re evenly divisable by 3,5 or 7.  Another skill that was require (which ties into needlework) was the ability to extrapolate n-dimentional spacial relationships from 2-d representations.  Alot of stitching is visualizing what the stitches will look like, the effects of color and light on the final 3-d piece.  Also pleasing pictures and color combinations usually have certain mathematical relationships. Another creative pastime that makes use of mathematical relationships is music.  When I started at Bell Labs (way back when), there weren’t alot of programmers ready made from colleges.  A surprising number were musicians who were retrained to a more lucrative (and steady) profession. — To send or not to send that is the question.  Whether it is nobler to risk the flames and arrows of outraged readers, or lurk in silence and never post inappropriately.

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P.S.- Does anyone know of a more adept "Problem Solver" than women/Mothers????

How about women/mothers/programmers ?   — Carol Bell Woman (since about age 15) Mother of 2 (4 year old & 16 month old) Computer Scientist (since 1985)

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: : Actually, I think programming has more to do with logic than math. : : On the other hand alot of advanced math is based on logic (mathematical : : proofs), rather than arithmetic, which is what alot of people think : : of when you say math.  In college I was a math major.  Our class slogan : : was: "I can’t add, I’m a Math major".  I think after the beginning : : calculus courses, I rarely dealt with numbers that were larger than : : 10 that we’re evenly divisable by 3,5 or 7. : I agree.  When I was taking math classes in school, it was only when : actual numbers were introduced into formulas that I got messed up (4+2 : does not equal 7, no matter how many times I write it that way). : A big part of my job these days is managing an ever-expanding relational : database.  Admittedly, since I have no programming training, my employers : bought a database package designed for non-programmers, but I do find : myself creating incredibly complex equations involving lots of : parentheses and plus and minus signs but no numbers whatsoever.  I get a : definite thrill when an equation actually makes the database do what I : want it to do. : Just to tie this back to needlework — every time I start a new project, I : thank my lucking stars my high-school physics teacher was adament that we : knew how to set up our own algebraic equations.  Makes it very easy for me : to figure out where to make the top-right-most-stitch so that my whole : project can be worked by counting down and to the left. OK.  I find the top-left-most-stitch and work down and to the right.  Anyway.

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: Actually, I think programming has more to do with logic than math. : On the other hand alot of advanced math is based on logic (mathematical : proofs), rather than arithmetic, which is what alot of people think : of when you say math.  In college I was a math major.  Our class slogan : was: "I can’t add, I’m a Math major".  I think after the beginning : calculus courses, I rarely dealt with numbers that were larger than : 10 that we’re evenly divisable by 3,5 or 7. I agree.  When I was taking math classes in school, it was only when actual numbers were introduced into formulas that I got messed up (4+2 does not equal 7, no matter how many times I write it that way). A big part of my job these days is managing an ever-expanding relational database.  Admittedly, since I have no programming training, my employers bought a database package designed for non-programmers, but I do find myself creating incredibly complex equations involving lots of parentheses and plus and minus signs but no numbers whatsoever.  I get a definite thrill when an equation actually makes the database do what I want it to do. Just to tie this back to needlework — every time I start a new project, I thank my lucking stars my high-school physics teacher was adament that we knew how to set up our own algebraic equations.  Makes it very easy for me to figure out where to make the top-right-most-stitch so that my whole project can be worked by counting down and to the left.

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