Question:

Hello all, I would really like to know what you think the biggest problem is with the bookkeeping side of the industry…is it the lack of training, certification, or do you have a different opinion?  The Canadian Bookkeepers Association is working on solving some of the industry’s problems with "bookkeeping", and I would love your input!  Thanks in advance! C. Morash Membership Director CBA

After a 25 year career in hi-tech gone bottoms-up I have been considering for some months getting into accounting. I have already taken the accounting basics in college and without really trying I faired well at the courses… at least at the beginning and intermediate level. There was a time when I was strongly considering following the CIB certification program that would lead to the CB – Certified Bookkeeper designation. There doesn’t appear to be any demand for the CB designation within the workplace. After more months of thought and speaking with those in the industry I have now changed my mind and decided to initially study a little further and obtain the 1 year accounting certificate. After this I can expect with some reasonable confidence to obtain more than a plain bookkeeping position, not only that but the doors are open towards future study based on that foundation. As the last fellow in accounting I spoke with told me, just about everyone and their grandmother can claim to be a bookkeeper and get the job. Going just a little beyond the bookkeeper level in terms of education opens many more doors and prepares one for a future of further study should they decide to pursue that. The big problem as I see it is that many places only need a part-time bookkeeper, so the option there is to get on with a bigger accounting firm that takes in this kind of work. However, then my problem would be being forever stuck at the bottom of the heap as it were… but by taking a few more courses I have some hope of moving a bit beyond… particulary if I continue my accounting education once I am employed in the field. Just my thoughts at the moment. I always welcome input to assist me with my decisions. — "Its the bugs that keep it running."                                       -Joe Canuck

Response:

Hello all, I would really like to know what you think the biggest problem is with the bookkeeping side of the industry…is it the lack of training, certification, or do you have a different opinion?  The Canadian Bookkeepers Association is working on solving some of the industry’s problems with "bookkeeping", and I would love your input!  Thanks in advance! C. Morash Membership Director CBA

why do think there is a problem?   are there declining numbers of bookkeepers?    less salaries for bookkeepers?  or is there a decline in your membership rolls ?

Response:

Hello all, I would really like to know what you think the biggest problem is with the bookkeeping side of the industry…is it the lack of training, certification, or do you have a different opinion?  The Canadian Bookkeepers Association is working on solving some of the industry’s problems with "bookkeeping", and I would love your input!  Thanks in advance! C. Morash Membership Director CBA

Response:

Question:

Hello everyone, Having come across this newsgroup, I hope you are in a position to help me with my question. I am part of the team of a new corporate entity in the sails charter industry and we are looking to establish an online booking and reservation system on our website. This will require integrating this system into the company accounting system. Naturally given this context, the accounting program is of prime importance. 1. This program will have to cover the stages of pre-invoicing (reservations with partial downpayment) and invoicing (confirmation and payment of balance). 2. It is preferable that we can use the same program to link to the banks handling credit card payments, bank transfers and payment of cheques in real time. 3. The company will be operating using three different currencies, but accounting shown in only one currency. 4. We would like this program to generate a monthly report to compare operation performance against the budget and the same period of the previous year’s operations. 5. The program should be in English. Personally I am not an expert on this topic, but the current situation dictates that I deal with this part of company preparations, hence my contacting people involved in the industry. If anyone can offer any assistance I will be very grateful or if not point me in the right direction so as to get the best advice on this matter. Thank you in advance and regards, Antony

Response:

ERP-SB. French, English, etc. Multiple currency, partial payments, … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, Having come across this newsgroup, I hope you are in a position to help me with my question. I am part of the team of a new corporate entity in the sails charter industry and we are looking to establish an online booking and reservation system on our website. This will require integrating this system into the company accounting system. Naturally given this context, the accounting program is of prime importance. 1. This program will have to cover the stages of pre-invoicing (reservations with partial downpayment) and invoicing (confirmation and payment of balance). 2. It is preferable that we can use the same program to link to the banks handling credit card payments, bank transfers and payment of cheques in real time. 3. The company will be operating using three different currencies, but accounting shown in only one currency. 4. We would like this program to generate a monthly report to compare operation performance against the budget and the same period of the previous year’s operations. 5. The program should be in English. Personally I am not an expert on this topic, but the current situation dictates that I deal with this part of company preparations, hence my contacting people involved in the industry. If anyone can offer any assistance I will be very grateful or if not point me in the right direction so as to get the best advice on this matter. Thank you in advance and regards, Antony

Response:

Antony, There are several packages that will potentially fit your needs. There is generally quite a comprehensive process that takes place in making these types of decisions.  First and foremost, you need to conduct a thorough needs analysis: an exercise designed not only to help you identify what you need the system to do, but also to review your internal processes.  Implementing a new system is an excellent opportunity to revise processes to gain efficiencies.  In doing so, you will be better equiped to dictate what a new system must do to meet your company’s needs. I have done this numerous times, and I would be happy to assist in any interested. Best of luck!! Regards, Dan

Response:

Question:

Well, I was 31 in 1977 when I graduated.  I was told, quite bluntly, that I was way too old for a career in public accounting.  The partner from Arthur Young complained bitterly to the school placement office because they had wasted his valuable time with such an ancient carcass. I’ve always admired the CSUF placement staff for telling him to get stuffed. I think the only change has been the Federal Age Discrimination Act of 1978.  The change being, they now deny age discrimination while still practicing it.  FWIW, I understand Lawyers are much worse at age discrimination than accountants.  Medical schools are probably the worst, even post Bakke decision.

I got a job with Andersen at age 30 in 1998.  And I also knew other people around my age or a little younger.  I also met an audit staff from Nebraska who was in his early 40’s.   I think things are more flexible now.   Chris

Response:

When I was 30 it was easy to find a job. When I became 40 it is a big question. If your manager is younger than you, you have immediate problem, especially when age difference is big. 20 something people are not able to understand they will get sometime to same stage. Currently I am applying to lot of jobs, where I know my expertise and skills are perfect fit – except age. With quite predictable result. Either I am overqualified, either under. Either management changes plans – when they cannot find somebody younger with same qualification set. But if you have connections age problem disappears – friends and relatives are much better in dealing with than anonymous recruiters. My 2 pences…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I was 31 in 1977 when I graduated.  I was told, quite bluntly, that I was way too old for a career in public accounting.  The partner from Arthur Young complained bitterly to the school placement office because they had wasted his valuable time with such an ancient carcass. I’ve always admired the CSUF placement staff for telling him to get stuffed. I think the only change has been the Federal Age Discrimination Act of 1978.  The change being, they now deny age discrimination while still practicing it.  FWIW, I understand Lawyers are much worse at age discrimination than accountants.  Medical schools are probably the worst, even post Bakke decision. I got a job with Andersen at age 30 in 1998.  And I also knew other people around my age or a little younger.  I also met an audit staff from Nebraska who was in his early 40’s. I think things are more flexible now. Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I was 31 in 1977 when I graduated.  I was told, quite bluntly, that I was way too old for a career in public accounting.  The partner from Arthur Young complained bitterly to the school placement office because they had wasted his valuable time with such an ancient carcass. I’ve always admired the CSUF placement staff for telling him to get stuffed. I think the only change has been the Federal Age Discrimination Act of 1978.  The change being, they now deny age discrimination while still practicing it.  FWIW, I understand Lawyers are much worse at age discrimination than accountants.  Medical schools are probably the worst, even post Bakke decision. I got a job with Andersen at age 30 in 1998.  And I also knew other people around my age or a little younger.  I also met an audit staff from Nebraska who was in his early 40’s. I think things are more flexible now.

Unfortunately, you bring up an N of one for the post 31 attribute and the original poster will be in his mid 30’s when he starts trying to sell himself into a career.  Maybe it will work, I would think the odds would be very long though. I have not seen this flexibility and the staffing people, the Robert Half types, I have talked to say it isn’t there.  Of course, I think the market growth potential is very poor. *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .  I have an opportunity to go back to school full time to get my Masters and am interested getting an MS in Accounting and sitting for the Texas CPA exam.  My BS is in an unrelated field (electronics management). I’m not sure if there is a difference between a MS/Accounting and a MAcc, but at the school I am currently attending you could not get a graduate degree in accounting without first getting an undergraduate degree in the same.  Kind of like you could not get a MS in an engineering discipline without first having your BS in an engineering discipline.  Maybe some schools are different.

I thought, could have heard it wrong, that some schools had a straight five year program in which no baccalaureate was awarded.  I haven’t seen the statistics, but I’ve also heard that the straight five year programs are not very popular.  AIR, there was some rather self serving stoties about it being a "turn-off" to students.  I still hold to the postion that the decrease in accounting enrollments is a rational decision. Students are much more world wise than they were when I was in school. Actually, I was thinking, if mlw is one of those rare folks who have management talent he shouldn’t be wasting his time with accounting. Management talent is one of the rarest and most precious attributes in business.  For the one percent who have it, hand who can demonstrate it, Fortune 1000 companies will truely pay princely sums.   — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

I thought, could have heard it wrong, that some schools had a straight five year program in which no baccalaureate was awarded.  I haven’t seen the statistics, but I’ve also heard that the straight five year programs are not very popular.

Yes, there are five year programs.  The one at my school is strictly an undergraduate program, but the extra year includes the extra classes needed to sit for the CPA in Florida.  To get the MAcc one still must go the grad school route, I believe. Actually, I was thinking, if mlw is one of those rare folks who have management talent he shouldn’t be wasting his time with accounting. Management talent is one of the rarest and most precious attributes in business.  For the one percent who have it, hand who can demonstrate it, Fortune 1000 companies will truely pay princely sums.

After some recent snafus at work, I am starting to give serious thought about finishing my business degree and then going straight back to fulfill my original degree aspirations and get a BS in electrical engineering.  I should have stuck with that to begin with, but the engineering schools just don’t seem to offer many night courses.  It will be a tough haul, but I really think I’ll be happier doing that type of work. — Todd Stephens

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought, could have heard it wrong, that some schools had a straight five year program in which no baccalaureate was awarded.  I haven’t seen the statistics, but I’ve also heard that the straight five year programs are not very popular. Yes, there are five year programs.  The one at my school is strictly an undergraduate program, but the extra year includes the extra classes needed to sit for the CPA in Florida.  To get the MAcc one still must go the grad school route, I believe. Actually, I was thinking, if mlw is one of those rare folks who have management talent he shouldn’t be wasting his time with accounting. Management talent is one of the rarest and most precious attributes in business.  For the one percent who have it, hand who can demonstrate it, Fortune 1000 companies will truely pay princely sums. After some recent snafus at work, I am starting to give serious thought about finishing my business degree and then going straight back to fulfill my original degree aspirations and get a BS in electrical engineering.  

If I had it to do over again, that is what I would do. I should have stuck with that to begin with, but the engineering schools just don’t seem to offer many night courses.  It will be a tough haul, but I really think I’ll be happier doing that type of work. — Todd Stephens

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought, could have heard it wrong, that some schools had a straight five year program in which no baccalaureate was awarded.  I haven’t seen the statistics, but I’ve also heard that the straight five year programs are not very popular. Yes, there are five year programs.  The one at my school is strictly an undergraduate program, but the extra year includes the extra classes needed to sit for the CPA in Florida.  To get the MAcc one still must go the grad school route, I believe.

For what it’s worth, Ohio State’s Honors Accounting program lets you start the MAcc courses senior year, and then the 5th year is all MAcc, so it’s a true 5-year BSBA/MAcc program.  (Not that I’m in the Honors program, I hear it’s death by numbers…) John

Response:

.  I have an opportunity to go back to school full time to get my Masters and am interested getting an MS in Accounting and sitting for the Texas CPA exam.  My BS is in an unrelated field (electronics management).

I’m not sure if there is a difference between a MS/Accounting and a MAcc, but at the school I am currently attending you could not get a graduate degree in accounting without first getting an undergraduate degree in the same.  Kind of like you could not get a MS in an engineering discipline without first having your BS in an engineering discipline.  Maybe some schools are different. — Todd Stephens

Response:

When I was 30 it was easy to find a job. When I became 40 it is a big question. If your manager is younger than you, you have immediate problem, especially when age difference is big. 20 something people are not able to understand they will get sometime to same stage.

When I was about thirty-five I had a partner use that exact reason.  He thought it would make his managers feel bad to have to supervise someone older. Currently I am applying to lot of jobs, where I know my expertise and skills are perfect fit – except age. With quite predictable result.

Yep, same story.  I’ve seen folks hire absolute crap while they wouldn’t give me an interview.  You just have to accept it as the way life goes. I’ve watched people kill their businesses and waste their resources. That’s life. Either I am overqualified, either under. Either management changes plans – when they cannot find somebody younger with same qualification set.

People who use the "overqualified" line really don’t understand business or the economic environment.  It is why their businesses usually fail. Public Accounting, in the past, has had monopolistic protections, therefore you have many failed practices that have been kept alive by the government’s distortion of the market by licensing.  As many practitioners have come to realize, the environment has been getting a lot tougher and market forces have been comming into the profession. One of the reasons that Bill Gates is so successful is that he doesn’t believe ANYONE is sufficiently qualified to work for MS, so he just takes the absolute best he can find. But if you have connections age problem disappears – friends and relatives are much better in dealing with than anonymous recruiters.

Boles stresses this point in his book. My 2 pences…

I think you have a mature and rational appraisal of the situation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I was 31 in 1977 when I graduated.  I was told, quite bluntly, that I was way too old for a career in public accounting.  The partner from Arthur Young complained bitterly to the school placement office because they had wasted his valuable time with such an ancient carcass. I’ve always admired the CSUF placement staff for telling him to get stuffed. I think the only change has been the Federal Age Discrimination Act of 1978.  The change being, they now deny age discrimination while still practicing it.  FWIW, I understand Lawyers are much worse at age discrimination than accountants.  Medical schools are probably the worst, even post Bakke decision. I got a job with Andersen at age 30 in 1998.  And I also knew other people around my age or a little younger.  I also met an audit staff from Nebraska who was in his early 40’s. I think things are more flexible now. Chris

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

I think before one specializes in tax he ought to keep in mind the seasonality of the business. When I began, I looked forward to tax season.  13 years later, when I decided to get out of it (okay, the first time<g), I was dreading it. Paraphrasing what someone once said about battle, "It is 10 months of sheer boredom with 2 months of sheer terror". To each his own; but I wish I had my 13 years back; I’d do something creative with them…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m glad you said that because taxation is what I am leaning towards. Thanks for the input. You should be able to land a job in either corporate accounting or public accounting.  Several years ago, the big firms frowned on taking new staff your age, but the dynamics have changed. By the time you get out, I expect you could start in the range from $35,000 to $45,000, depending on your grades and what type of position you are looking for. On a personal note, I would suggest specializing in tax over audit. Chris I am a 31-year old sales manager for a security company (alarms) and am pretty fed up with all of it, as I’ve always been more into the paperwork aspect of things, rather than the sales/motivation side. .  I have an opportunity to go back to school full time to get my Masters and am interested getting an MS in Accounting and sitting for the Texas CPA exam.  My BS is in an unrelated field (electronics management). My question is, what can expect as a 33 or 34 year old recent graduate as far as job prospects are concerned, as well as average starting salaries for CPA’s with Master’s degrees, but no real experience in accounting? Thanks for any and all input.

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I am a 31-year old sales manager for a security company (alarms) and am pretty fed up with all of it, as I’ve always been more into the paperwork aspect of things, rather than the sales/motivation side. .  I have an opportunity to go back to school full time to get my Masters and am interested getting an MS in Accounting and sitting for the Texas CPA exam.  My BS is in an unrelated field (electronics management). My question is, what can expect as a 33 or 34 year old recent graduate as far as job prospects are concerned, as well as average starting salaries for CPA’s with Master’s degrees, but no real experience in accounting? Thanks for any and all input.

Response:

You should be able to land a job in either corporate accounting or public accounting.  Several years ago, the big firms frowned on taking new staff your age, but the dynamics have changed. By the time you get out, I expect you could start in the range from $35,000 to $45,000, depending on your grades and what type of position you are looking for. On a personal note, I would suggest specializing in tax over audit. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a 31-year old sales manager for a security company (alarms) and am pretty fed up with all of it, as I’ve always been more into the paperwork aspect of things, rather than the sales/motivation side. .  I have an opportunity to go back to school full time to get my Masters and am interested getting an MS in Accounting and sitting for the Texas CPA exam.  My BS is in an unrelated field (electronics management). My question is, what can expect as a 33 or 34 year old recent graduate as far as job prospects are concerned, as well as average starting salaries for CPA’s with Master’s degrees, but no real experience in accounting? Thanks for any and all input.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a 31-year old sales manager for a security company (alarms) and am pretty fed up with all of it, as I’ve always been more into the paperwork aspect of things, rather than the sales/motivation side. .  I have an opportunity to go back to school full time to get my Masters and am interested getting an MS in Accounting and sitting for the Texas CPA exam.  My BS is in an unrelated field (electronics management). My question is, what can expect as a 33 or 34 year old recent graduate as far as job prospects are concerned, as well as average starting salaries for CPA’s with Master’s degrees, but no real experience in accounting? Thanks for any and all input.

Well, I was 31 in 1977 when I graduated.  I was told, quite bluntly, that I was way too old for a career in public accounting.  The partner from Arthur Young complained bitterly to the school placement office because they had wasted his valuable time with such an ancient carcass. I’ve always admired the CSUF placement staff for telling him to get stuffed. I think the only change has been the Federal Age Discrimination Act of 1978.  The change being, they now deny age discrimination while still practicing it.  FWIW, I understand Lawyers are much worse at age discrimination than accountants.  Medical schools are probably the worst, even post Bakke decision. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *   Students, when someone tells you of your great future as  * *       an accountant, ask him to show you the job.           *

Response:

I’m glad you said that because taxation is what I am leaning towards. Thanks for the input. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You should be able to land a job in either corporate accounting or public accounting.  Several years ago, the big firms frowned on taking new staff your age, but the dynamics have changed. By the time you get out, I expect you could start in the range from $35,000 to $45,000, depending on your grades and what type of position you are looking for. On a personal note, I would suggest specializing in tax over audit. Chris I am a 31-year old sales manager for a security company (alarms) and am pretty fed up with all of it, as I’ve always been more into the paperwork aspect of things, rather than the sales/motivation side. .  I have an opportunity to go back to school full time to get my Masters and am interested getting an MS in Accounting and sitting for the Texas CPA exam.  My BS is in an unrelated field (electronics management). My question is, what can expect as a 33 or 34 year old recent graduate as far as job prospects are concerned, as well as average starting salaries for CPA’s with Master’s degrees, but no real experience in accounting? Thanks for any and all input.

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Question:

Would like to get some feedback from this group about the value/benefits of a vClassroom for Small Business to teach them how to do their accounting online. This setup can also be used to teach the busy entrepreneur how to read and understand financial statements and reports. Also keep in mind that this vClassroom setup can be adapted for most other types of virtual learning, meetings or group collaboration. Earl Rudolfo http://www.ez-e-accounting.com Ez-e-Accounting.com Manage your Business Finances, Anytime, Anywhere

Response:

Tried going to the site three times.  Took way too long to download and see the home page so I gave up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to get some feedback from this group about the value/benefits of a vClassroom for Small Business to teach them how to do their accounting online. This setup can also be used to teach the busy entrepreneur how to read and understand financial statements and reports. Also keep in mind that this vClassroom setup can be adapted for most other types of virtual learning, meetings or group collaboration. Earl Rudolfo http://www.ez-e-accounting.com Ez-e-Accounting.com Manage your Business Finances, Anytime, Anywhere

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to establish an account with one of these two companies to purchase gas and diesel fuel.  Any experiences (positive or negative) about either one? I used Pacific Pride for a few years and was pretty happy with their service. Once I found fuel supply along my regularly traveled routes I was fine, and they put out a nice book that shows all their outlets. The downside was I wasn’t too happy with the way my local office did their accounting. Almost as difficult as reading a phone bill until I sorted it out, but never had a problem with accounting errors.  –Brett

Not sure about Pacific Pride but with CFN, you never know what you are going to pay for the fuel except at your home station.  When you travel and fuel up in another state, etc., you may very well find that the price charged is quite a bit more than what was posted at the pump.  My Son-in-law had Pacific Pride and I understand that they had the same practices.   We have found that using our Master card whenever we can and usually patronizing Flying J, we can find the most economical prices, especially with the RV Club card.  Check out www.flyingj.com. George

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I need to establish an account with one of these two companies to purchase gas and diesel fuel.  Any experiences (positive or negative) about either one?

I used Pacific Pride for a few years and was pretty happy with their service. Once I found fuel supply along my regularly traveled routes I was fine, and they put out a nice book that shows all their outlets. The downside was I wasn’t too happy with the way my local office did their accounting. Almost as difficult as reading a phone bill until I sorted it out, but never had a problem with accounting errors.   –Brett

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I need to establish an account with one of these two companies to purchase gas and diesel fuel.  Any experiences (positive or negative) about either one? Thanks in advance for your help. Glen

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I use Pacific Pride for both my diesel truck and car.  The fuel is much better then the stuff everybody else sells, Pacific Pride adds additional treatments before they sell it.  I actualy get around 2 MPG more in the Dodge Cummins using Pacific pride. Of course all the Pacific Prides I stop at are own buy the same fuel supplier, so maybe its only him that is doing the additive thing. Plus the price has been within +- 1 or 2 cents of the "large brandname dealers"  Until the 9/11 thing, then most of the other large dealers" jacked up there price and my dealer stayed the same.  Nothing better then a "fair bussiness person"! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I need to establish an account with one of these two companies to purchase gas and diesel fuel.  Any experiences (positive or negative) about either one? Thanks in advance for your help. Glen

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Question:

Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

Absolutely. Bruce.

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

yupyupyupyupyupuyupyupyes you have LOTS of company here at ASD, Mike. Erminia

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

(covers ears to protect self from overwhelming flood of "yes"’s)

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"Operator" Jim Croce Operator Could you help me place this call. See the number on the matchbook is old and faded. She’s living in L.A., with my best old ex-friend Ray. A guy she said she knew well and sometimes hated.

I could never figure out that last line.  Thanks. (Chorus) Isn’t that the way they say it goes.

I only just figured out that line a couple of weeks ago. Let’s forget all that,

I couldn’t figure out that line either.  Thanks. and give me the number if you can find it, so I can call just to tell them I’m fine and to show, I’m overcome it now

I always thought that last line was "I’ve overcome the blow" Learned to take it well. I only wish my words Could convince myself that it just wasn’t real. But that’s not the way it feels. Operator Could you help me place this call. I can’t read the number that you just gave me. There’s something in my eyes, you know it happens everytime I think about a love that I thought would save me.

That’s the verse that gets me every time. {Chorus} Operator You can forget about this call. There’s no one there I really wanted to talk to. Thank you for your time. You’ve been so much more than kind. You can keep the dime. {Chorus} When I want to have a good cry, this is one of the songs I listen to.  Never fails.

*nod* Sincerely Stewart —

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

Too many of us here do, unfortunately.

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This should be called "Anothnys song".

:-

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every day. "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

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in article PM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too? I’ve been listening to an old Jim Croche(sp?) song. I think the title is Operator? One line keeps running over and over again in my head: "I think about the love that I thought would save me." Sincerely Stewart

"Operator" Jim Croce Operator Could you help me place this call. See the number on the matchbook is old and faded. She’s living in L.A., with my best old ex-friend Ray. A guy she said she knew well and sometimes hated. (Chorus) Isn’t that the way they say it goes. Let’s forget all that, and give me the number if you can find it, so I can call just to tell them I’m fine and to show, I’m overcome it now Learned to take it well. I only wish my words Could convince myself that it just wasn’t real. But that’s not the way it feels. Operator Could you help me place this call. I can’t read the number that you just gave me. There’s something in my eyes, you know it happens everytime I think about a love that I thought would save me. {Chorus} Operator You can forget about this call. There’s no one there I really wanted to talk to. Thank you for your time. You’ve been so much more than kind. You can keep the dime. {Chorus} When I want to have a good cry, this is one of the songs I listen to.  Never fails. Erminia

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

I’ve been listening to an old Jim Croche(sp?) song.   I think the title is Operator? One line keeps running over and over again in my head: "I think about the love that I thought would save me." Sincerely Stewart —

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

yes.  it feels like being me.

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

I think you’ve come to the right place. ~Liss Who am I then? Tell me that first, and then, if I like being that person, I’ll come up: if not, I’ll stay down here till I’m somebody else." (Alice in Wonderland)

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Does anyone know what its like to feel worthless and hopeless and totally unneeded and have noone to talk too?

Absolutely. Hi Mike. Mary Beth

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thanks guys thanks very much I don’t have any friends.  No, really, my wife is the only adult I talk to besides my father-in-law.  I do nothing now that I don’t have a job and I stay home with the kids during summer. I’m also not getting enough sleep.  My father-in-law delivers papers at 2 in the morning but he hurt himself and also had heart surgery so I’ve been filling in for him the past week.  Boy, feeling down AND being tired sure combines for bad effect.

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I have no job and I’m not qualified for any thing.  There’s no identity for me.  No respect from my wife or kids.  My 10 yr old boy had to go to outpatient therapy for his ADHD and so I got a chance to talk to real psychiatrist about my problems.  She dismissed it as Oh, just situational.  God-for 9 years I’ve felt this way.  Very low self-esteem and no joy in life and don’t hardly care what happens to me.  No hope for a better future any time soon.  I have a degree in math I got in 1992 and also one in accounting I got in 1999.  The only job i can do now is deliver pizza(which I did for a long time)  I just hate myself.

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You can post here about just about anything, whether it’s just to rant, to ask for help or advice, or just to know you’re not alone. Also, many local crisis hotlines and crisis centers have referral resources for those who can’t afford to pay for treatment. -Worm’l – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 19 and seriously depressed. I need help. I can’t take this anymore. I want to die. I am working two jobs as well, and I have no money or health insurance to get help through. please somebody tell me there is someplace I can get help. before its too late — Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway. http://www.talkway.com

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Why doe’s every one think dying is better.Wouldn’t it be the shits if god sent you to hell for taking your own life.Look your 19 every things diffcult at 19 start looking around for a full time job with full benefits and learn to save money.If you try things seem to work out.

fuzzy, if ppl could all be as organised as you, then i guess all world hunger would stop, and pollution would no longer be a problem, but the facts are, that ppl here are having trouble with everyday life, forget the shit about going to hell and organising their money. i can’t even figure out how much money i have left when i’m looking at my bank statement.  if you meant good by saying such things, i apologize, but please consider that some problems are not skin deep, and are actually life altering. why are you even here?  if nothing is wrong in your life, and you have your shit together, then all is well.  if i ever got a reply like the one above it would crush me, and i would fall deeper into the pits thinking that i couldn’t even do things that (supposedly) other ppl here are doing just fine. hey fuzzy, why don’t you just get over whatever your problem is?  <– does that sound like good advice? no, so please don’t think everyone here is living up to your high standards, cuz most are not able to (most of the reason they are here). hell i know a ton of normies that can’t even hold a full time job. …Ed (who, i guess, should just "snap out of it" according to fuzzy)

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Why doe’s every one think dying is better.Wouldn’t it be the shits if god sent you to hell for taking your own life.Look your 19 every things diffcult at 19 start looking around for a full time job with full benefits and learn to save money.If you try things seem to work out.

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Amsterdam, October 7. 1998 I have no idea if I can do something, for I’m in The Netherlands, so if it’s someone to talk to you’re looking for, I might be your man, if you need any advice on medical insurance stuff though, I’m sorry, I’m not from your country (assuming you’re in the U.S.) so I don’t know enough about the system over there. Viktor.

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I am 19 and seriously depressed. I need help. I can’t take this anymore. I want to die. I am working two jobs as well, and I have no money or health insurance to get help through. please somebody tell me there is someplace I can get help. before its too late — Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway. http://www.talkway.com

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wassup?

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– "So go ahead and label me an asshole ’cause I can Accept responsibility for what I done But not for who I am" – NOFX

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I could write the same note you wrote here only it would be my parents, and i cant leave them behind. They are both unhealthy and need me, im all they have. Why do you feel so bad? Have you talked to a therapist or tried any medications? Trish

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Friend you came to the right place. First the basics:How long have you felt this way? Have you thought about finding a therapist, minister, or doctor to discuss your feelings with? I believe most of us have found a good professional to help us meet the challenges of life today. If your depression has been an ongoing thing you may need medication. I haven’t met many people dealing with depression that haven’t found help through a "p-doc." And of course, we are always here for you. Don’t be afraid to vent. Many times I vent and someone out there knows just what I mean. Type away!!!   G

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help me i am feeling so bad, no one cares no one listens no one understands what is the point of going on.  The only thing i go on for is my grandsons, they would be devastated if something happened to me.   How can I go on can anyone help

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I care.  I want to understand.  I promise to listen.  Tell me what’s wrong. Why do you feel so bad?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – help me i am feeling so bad, no one cares no one listens no one understands what is the point of going on.  The only thing i go on for is my grandsons, they would be devastated if something happened to me.   How can I go on can anyone help

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I would get you out if I could… I know that feeling all too well.   I got an idea that helps me when I feel like that though, when I feel like I cant get out, like I just cant take another minute of living… I MAKE myself look for someone who needs a loving word, or someone to talk to, and when I help someone else, I actually feel myself "get out" of "me".  It is sorta of a backwards idea, but it works for me. ~Arielah~ ~~*~~*~     For love is fierce as death,        

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get me out of here, icant stand it

Mira, We’re here, we’re listening, and we care.  What’s going on? ((((((((((Mira)))))))))) hang on, mourning dove — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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get me out of here, icant stand it

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(((((((((((((((((((((Mira))))))))))))))))))) Tell us what you can’t stand. We are here to listen not judge you Mira. Many Hugs to you- Paul Mira wrote in article… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – get me out of here, icant stand it

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hi, my name is lisa and I suffer from clinical depresson mood disorder.  I am crying all the time and I feel so bad all the time.  I was told that I had this disease in January 1999.  I am new to this.

Hi Lisa and welcome to ASD. I don’t think you will be alone in this fight anymore. I’m glad you found out what was happening to you and got help. Here in ASD, we help each other to get through our rough times, and good times together bonded with this illness. Mary Beth

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hi, my name is lisa and I suffer from clinical depresson mood disorder.  I am crying all the time and I feel so bad all the time.  I was told that I had this disease in January 1999.  I am new to this.  I have been suffering for 8 years.  I am 22 now.  Anyone with some help to offer, bring it on.  I need all I can get.

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Sometimes it helps to get an antidepressant perscription from a doctor. That is what helped me at least get clear-minded so I could work on my problems.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi, my name is lisa and I suffer from clinical depresson mood disorder. I am crying all the time and I feel so bad all the time.  I was told that I had this disease in January 1999.  I am new to this.  I have been suffering for 8 years.  I am 22 now.  Anyone with some help to offer, bring it on. I need all I can get. ***** Hi Lisa.  Welcome to ASD. You will find a lot of people here who understand, and are willing to share in your pain and problems.  Please let us know how you are doing. Best wishes, —                     _    bear         _.-’ )                (_ . ‘ __                  __^/` _)                .-’_                   (_.’    ’–.                    /_ /`-._/                   (__/ email: The_bearster_at_aol_dot_com

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hi, my name is lisa and I suffer from clinical depresson mood disorder.  I am crying all the time and I feel so bad all the time.  I was told that I had this disease in January 1999.  I am new to this.  I have been suffering for 8 years.  I am 22 now.  Anyone with some help to offer, bring it on.  I need all I can get.

***** Hi Lisa.  Welcome to ASD. You will find a lot of people here who understand, and are willing to share in your pain and problems.  Please let us know how you are doing. Best wishes, —                     _    bear         _.-’ )                (_ . ‘ __                  __^/` _)                .-’_                   (_.’    ’–.                    /_ /`-._/                   (__/ email: The_bearster_at_aol_dot_com

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That sounds like the thoughts I have when my brain is spinning out of control.  I understand the pain you are going through.

Thanks for the understanding.  It does help to know others have been here. I was in an unhealthy and emotionally unsatisfying relationship for years.  It finally blew apart during my last major depression.  I felt trapped and pushed things hard.  At the same time I was afraid to be alone.  One of the weird things about depression seems to be the tremendous capacity to be in those uncomfortable mixed emotional states.

True.  I probably would have stayed much longer if he would have really tried. We were both suffering from (clinical) depression, undiagnosed.  It is hard to be supportive when you are so numb that you can’t cope with your own life.  That just leads to a cycle of painful feelings.  And anger and blame seem to be the easiest emotions to feel and to express in those situations.  The best that you can hope for really is to learn from your mistakes and construct a new relationship that is satisfying to you, and possibly using relationship/marital counseling to avert dysfunction before it gets out of hand.  Seek out medical help and therapy for yourself at a minimum if you haven’t.  Your health and your well being are your most valuable assets.  It sounds as though your relationship is truly over and therefore beyond counseling.  But now you can look at it as an opportunity to find what you are really looking for.

It must have been very difficult for you — with both of you suffering from untreated depression. I hope I can build a new relationship with what I’ve learned.  It’s just hard to feel like that will ever happen, right now.  I would have liked to try counselling with my ex.  But, he was past that point in wanting things to work out.  He aways used to come up with great ideas to improve our relationship and communication.  Unfortunately, he never followed through on any of those ideas. You will feel better.  Life will get better.  It’s not easy.  It’s hard work, but I am starting the healing process with professional help.  I hope that you see a doctor and keep us posted.

I hope you’re right!  I know it will be hard work.  But, as long as I’ll eventually feel OK again, it will be worth it. I do have a doctor.  I’ve been seeing a psychiatrist/therapist for a couple of years, now. Thank you so much for your response.  I’m glad you are getting professional help, also.  I hope that you feel much better soon.   -Kevin

Sasha

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Hi Sasha, what you wrote sounds so familiar. I’m going through very similar feelings and thoughts. I wish I could help you more…

Hi Liss, It helps just knowing that there are people who understand.  I’m sorry you have to feel this way, too. I’m sorry I haven’t gotten back to you in email about the relationship stuff we were discussing.  I just haven’t been able to think about it too much recently without getting really, really down.  I’ll try to be better about emailing! There are so many triggers. Dates, places, words. They’re reminders of things that were good, things that we lost. And it’s painful.

That’s SO true!  Dates, places, words, songs, movies, foods, etc…  Argghhhh! Me and my ex just celebrated his birthday a few weeks ago. He was like nothing had happened. He’s like that all the time, it really sucks. But I don’t want him to comfort me either. He can’t do that. I need to deal with my pain on my own now. And it’s too early to have any productive discussions about our relationship. I’m still just too overwhelmed and confused.

I understand what you’re saying *so* well about still being too overwhelmed and confused.   And I’m sorry your ex is messing with your mind – acting like everything is fine again, then not. I miss something too, and I’m not sure what it is. To feel loved, and to be able to love someone? I don’t know.

I think that’s a big part of it. I think a lot about the things you mentioned. Would I take him back if it was possible? ‘Cause as you said, the things that hurt then, the things that caused this break-up, they would still be there.

I think those things would definitely still be there.  It’s so easy to forget those things when you’re missing him and wanting him back. Probably something should change before we could be together again. Something in him maybe. Maybe it could happen, but I’m not too optimistic. Nevertheless I do miss him terribly.

Yep.  Things should change before either you or I should consider being with our ex’s, again.  (We probably shouldn’t consider it at all!  But, it’s so, so hard.) Do you ever get over your first love?  Yes, you do. I thought I’d never get over mine, but it’s faded now. Life goes on. I’m waiting for it to go on this time too. It’ll happen. It just takes time. It’ll happen for you too.

I hope it doesn’t take too long.  It hurts too much. Please take good care of yourself now. Go to see the doctor.

I’ve already made the appointment.  Ack!  I don’t wanna go, but I will. Thanks. Make yourself do things that you enjoy. (Or would normally enjoy.) And if you want to, just go ahead and call/email him on his bday!

I did both, today.  I sent him an email card, and tood him a few flowers and a couple of his favorite cookies.  I dropped them off for him.  I didn’t want to use this as an excuse to see him.  (I don’t even know whether or not I *want* to see him!)  I thought I should do a little something for him.  (He sent me flowers on my b-day.  Lillies and irises.) Then, I did somethin for myself.  I bought myself two of those little bracelets made with the semi-precious stone beads.  One is sodalite — for inner peace and to help you remember your dreams.  The other is hematite — for happiness. Hematite’s one of my favorite stones. ~Liss (p/e)

Thank you so much for all of your kind words and helpful thoughts. Sasha

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sasha said: please.  help me not to break down and look like a fool.  somebody remind me why i shouldn’t let him know how much i still love him.  i’m trying to decide how to tell him happy birthday.  i realized a few days ago that his birthday was coming up.  i think that’s why i’m feeling worse, again.  when our anniversary (ex-anniversary) was coming up about a month ago i started feeling worse and worse.  i finally wasn’t feeling so awful about that — and now there’s this.  and i know i shouldn’t care.  (or should i??)   Of course you "should".  You feel how you feel.  It will take a long while. All you can do is keep looking forward and working on a new life "right now", then in 5 minutes, another "right now", then in 5 minutes, another "right now"… etc.

that’s *exactly* how it’s going.  minute by minute.  i’ve gotta tackle right now, and worry about later when it gets here. i’m so confused. i feel so strongly that something is missing.  i *want* something really badly. I’m guessing it’s a feeling of family?  

i think that’s probably a big part of it.  i have people around me — but i’m still lonely. OTOH, there’s also the element of habit.  Which doesn’t invalidate or devalue it at all.  Habits, the patterns of our lives, those are comforts. Even the awful destructive habits.  I remember when my first live-in left…..  for weeks, I found myself repeatedly looking out the window to see if his car was approaching.  Cuz that’s how I had spent much of my alone time in the apartment–waiting for him to return.  I don’t remember how long that lasted though.  Too many years ago.

habits do die hard, don’t they?  there’s a comfort in them, even when things in the relationship aren’t going well. Also, for months, I kept calling my next boyfriend by the same name as the previous one.  Ack!  But it wasn’t that I was confusing them.  It wasn’t that I still wanted the old one.  It was that the new one was now in that role (and his name started with the same letter, "G")..  I finally had to stop calling him anything except diminutives, just for his own sanity!

hehe!  i’m sure it wasn’t funny at the time.  poor guy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyway, my point is that but i don’t know what it is.  i don’t think i could tell him how i feel, anyway.  ’cause he doesn’t feel the same way anymore.  i think about it, and i guess i blew it.  but then i think about it some more — and i don’t know how i could have *not* been hurt by things he said.  maybe i could’ve had him back before.  but it’s too late, now.  and would i still want him if i had him? i mean, i know i’d want him in a sense.  but, if he was still hurting me, and not even understanding why i felt hurt, wouldn’t it still hurt me just like it did then?  and does any of it matter?  do you ever get over your first love?  i Yes.  Eventually, it became a sweet, rather blurry memory.  The angers faded away.  The hurts were overcome by other (fortunately better) events. Don’t know exactly when that happened though.  It just did, somewhere along the way.

it’s hard to believe, right now.  but others have survived.  so i guess people must get over their first loves eventually.  just, please, let it happen before too, too much longer. I’ve been able to recontact most of my formers and ya know what?  I really don’t feel the same way about them now.  I contacted my high school boyfriend "just because" and I was horribly disapointed in how he turned out: bitter, angry, trapped, stagnated.  ewwwwww. I recontacted that Live In boyfriend and found that he was living with someone who looked very much like me and he still had the exact same complaints as before… He had made no progress.

well, i know i don’t wanna be one of those people!  so, i’d better keep in mind that i don’t wanna be stuck in this place for years and years. know i’m kinda old for this to be my first love, but, well — it is.  so i think it’s a whole different thing for me than it is for him.  God, please help me.   I don’t know how to.

neither do i.  i don’t know how to help myself, right now.  :-(    but, people like you are giving me things to think about… and validating some of the thoughts i have had about what i need to strive for. this hurts so much.  i’m slipping.  feeling more and more depressed.  so — there’s the thing with my ex.  and his b-day.  and my car.  and the job (ok, lack of a real job).  and the class.  and the vocational counsellor.  and some health things going on that i should see a doctor about – but, i’m afraid to see a doctor — because what if something *is* wrong.  and…  and…  i just don’t know.  i just feel so *wrong* — and i don’t know what to do about it. One day at a time.  Or maybe, one minute at a time.

yup.  that’s the ticket. thanks for your thoughts on the subject, wombn. sasha

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s hard to say something knowing nothing about the relationship you had, I’m sorry. As I understand it, it’s over on both sides but you still long for love so you’re doubting whether you were right in letting him go. Fact is that you did and must have had your reasons, especially since he was your first love. Generally, I think when you’re so much in doubt about your feelings and the things that made you split up, it won’t work to try getting and staying together again. It seems to me it’s more a general longing for love projected on the love you had.

that’s what my pdoc/therp thinks, too.  we talked about the fact that i’m probably missing being in love, and having someone to care about, and to care about me.  you’re probably right.  it could be that i’m missing all of that, instead of ‘him’ in particular. i’m trying to decide how to tell him happy birthday. You’re maybe trying to decide how to use this occasion?

oops.  i think i might just have been caught.  i wasn’t consciously thinking about that.  but, it makes sense. i feel so strongly that something is missing. i *want* something really badly. but i don’t know what it is. Isn’t it simply love you long for, someone who cares about you, to share things with? From here, it looks painful to see you can’t seem to cut loose your longing for those things from this one man. If you were to see they’re legitimate longings wanting to be fulfilled regardless of who did so before, maybe you’d start seeing the many other nice men living around you.

good advice.  now, let’s see if i can put him out of the picture, and realize that i can have those things with someone else.  i’m trying.  i guess i’d better try harder… and some health things going on that i should see a doctor about – but, i’m afraid to see a doctor — because what if something *is* wrong. They might be fixed Please go see a doctor?

ack!  i hate going to the doctor.  but, i made an appointment — and i’m going in the morning.   and…  and…  i just don’t know.  i just feel so *wrong* — and i don’t know what to do about it. The feeling wrong may be partly because of things unsolved. They do that to me too. I feel better when I look them in the eye and do what I can about them. I hope it gets better for you soon,

i think that things being unsolved and unresolved may be part of the problem. i probably won’t get any more validation or closure.  so, i guess i need to try harder to keep the focus on me, and what *i* need.  hopefully, i can be friends with him once i get my own thoughts in order. Syrinx

thanks for the wise words, syrinx.  you make a lot of sense. sasha

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I did both, today.  I sent him an email card, and took him a few flowers and a couple of his favorite cookies.  I dropped them off for him.  I didn’t want to use this as an excuse to see him.  (I don’t even know whether or not I *want* to see him!)  I thought I should do a little something for him.  (He sent me flowers on my b-day.  Lillies and irises.) Then, I did somethin for myself.  I bought myself two of those little bracelets made with the semi-precious stone beads.  One is sodalite — for inner peace and to help you remember your dreams.  The other is hematite — for happiness. Hematite’s one of my favorite stones.

(((((((Sasha))))))) i’m sorry. it’s a bitch, that’s all i can say. i gave up on trying to think of a wedding gift.. the show will have to go on without me~ donna "Please forgive all the disturbance I’m creating." Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

That sounds like the thoughts I have when my brain is spinning out of control.  I understand the pain you are going through. I was in an unhealthy and emotionally unsatisfying relationship for years.  It finally blew apart during my last major depression.  I felt trapped and pushed things hard.  At the same time I was afraid to be alone.  One of the weird things about depression seems to be the tremendous capacity to be in those uncomfortable mixed emotional states. We were both suffering from (clinical) depression, undiagnosed.  It is hard to be supportive when you are so numb that you can’t cope with your own life.  That just leads to a cycle of painful feelings.  And anger and blame seem to be the easiest emotions to feel and to express in those situations.  The best that you can hope for really is to learn from your mistakes and construct a new relationship that is satisfying to you, and possibly using relationship/marital counseling to avert dysfunction before it gets out of hand.  Seek out medical help and therapy for yourself at a minimum if you haven’t.  Your health and your well being are your most valuable assets.  It sounds as though your relationship is truly over and therefore beyond counseling.  But now you can look at it as an opportunity to find what you are really looking for. You will feel better.  Life will get better.  It’s not easy.  It’s hard work, but I am starting the healing process with professional help.  I hope that you see a doctor and keep us posted. -Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – please.  help me not to break down and look like a fool.  somebody remind me why i shouldn’t let him know how much i still love him.  i’m trying to decide how to tell him happy birthday.  i realized a few days ago that his birthday was coming up.  i think that’s why i’m feeling worse, again.  when our anniversary (ex-anniversary) was coming up about a month ago i started feeling worse and worse.  i finally wasn’t feeling so awful about that — and now there’s this.  and i know i shouldn’t care.  (or should i??)  i’m so confused. i feel so strongly that something is missing.  i *want* something really badly.  but i don’t know what it is.  i don’t think i could tell him how i feel, anyway.  ’cause he doesn’t feel the same way anymore.  i think about it, and i guess i blew it.  but then i think about it some more — and i don’t know how i could have *not* been hurt by things he said.  maybe i could’ve had him back before.  but it’s too late, now.  and would i still want him if i had him?  i mean, i know i’d want him in a sense.  but, if he was still hurting me, and not even understanding why i felt hurt, wouldn’t it still hurt me just like it did then?  and does any of it matter?  do you ever get over your first love?  i know i’m kinda old for this to be my first love, but, well — it is.  so i think it’s a whole different thing for me than it is for him.  God, please help me.  this hurts so much.  i’m slipping.  feeling more and more depressed.  so — there’s the thing with my ex.  and his b-day.  and my car.  and the job (ok, lack of a real job).  and the class.  and the vocational counsellor.  and some health things going on that i should see a doctor about – but, i’m afraid to see a doctor — because what if something *is* wrong.  and…  and…  i just don’t know.  i just feel so *wrong* — and i don’t know what to do about it. Sasha We’re all in this alone.  - Lily Tomlin

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Hi Sasha, what you wrote sounds so familiar. I’m going through very similar feelings and thoughts. I wish I could help you more… There are so many triggers. Dates, places, words. They’re reminders of things that were good, things that we lost. And it’s painful. Me and my ex just celebrated his birthday a few weeks ago. He was like nothing had happened. He’s like that all the time, it really sucks. But I don’t want him to comfort me either. He can’t do that. I need to deal with my pain on my own now. And it’s too early to have any productive discussions about our relationship. I’m still just too overwhelmed and confused. I miss something too, and I’m not sure what it is. To feel loved, and to be able to love someone? I don’t know. I think a lot about the things you mentioned. Would I take him back if it was possible? ‘Cause as you said, the things that hurt then, the things that caused this break-up, they would still be there. Probably something should change before we could be together again. Something in him maybe. Maybe it could happen, but I’m not too optimistic. Nevertheless I do miss him terribly. Do you ever get over your first love?  Yes, you do. I thought I’d never get over mine, but it’s faded now. Life goes on. I’m waiting for it to go on this time too. It’ll happen. It just takes time. It’ll happen for you too. Please take good care of yourself now. Go to see the doctor. Make yourself do things that you enjoy. (Or would normally enjoy.) And if you want to, just go ahead and call/email him on his bday! ~Liss (p/e) — "Who am I then? Tell me that first, and then, if I like being that person, I’ll come up: if not, I’ll stay down here till I’m somebody else." (Alice in Wonderland) Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

It’s hard to say something knowing nothing about the relationship you had, I’m sorry. As I understand it, it’s over on both sides but you still long for love so you’re doubting whether you were right in letting him go. Fact is that you did and must have had your reasons, especially since he was your first love. Generally, I think when you’re so much in doubt about your feelings and the things that made you split up, it won’t work to try getting and staying together again. It seems to me it’s more a general longing for love projected on the love you had. i’m trying to decide how to tell him happy birthday.

You’re maybe trying to decide how to use this occasion? i feel so strongly that something is missing. i *want* something really badly. but i don’t know what it is.

Isn’t it simply love you long for, someone who cares about you, to share things with? From here, it looks painful to see you can’t seem to cut loose your longing for those things from this one man. If you were to see they’re legitimate longings wanting to be fulfilled regardless of who did so before, maybe you’d start seeing the many other nice men living around you. and some health things going on that i should see a doctor about – but, i’m afraid to see a doctor — because what if something *is* wrong.

They might be fixed Please go see a doctor? and…  and…  i just don’t know.  i just feel so *wrong* — and i don’t know what to do about it.

The feeling wrong may be partly because of things unsolved. They do that to me too. I feel better when I look them in the eye and do what I can about them. I hope it gets better for you soon, Syrinx

Response:

please.  help me not to break down and look like a fool.  somebody remind me why i shouldn’t let him know how much i still love him.  i’m trying to decide how to tell him happy birthday.  i realized a few days ago that his birthday was coming up.  i think that’s why i’m feeling worse, again.  when our anniversary (ex-anniversary) was coming up about a month ago i started feeling worse and worse.  i finally wasn’t feeling so awful about that — and now there’s this.  and i know i shouldn’t care.  (or should i??)  i’m so confused. i feel so strongly that something is missing.  i *want* something really badly.  but i don’t know what it is.  i don’t think i could tell him how i feel, anyway.  ’cause he doesn’t feel the same way anymore.  i think about it, and i guess i blew it.  but then i think about it some more — and i don’t know how i could have *not* been hurt by things he said.  maybe i could’ve had him back before.  but it’s too late, now.  and would i still want him if i had him?  i mean, i know i’d want him in a sense.  but, if he was still hurting me, and not even understanding why i felt hurt, wouldn’t it still hurt me just like it did then?  and does any of it matter?  do you ever get over your first love?  i know i’m kinda old for this to be my first love, but, well — it is.  so i think it’s a whole different thing for me than it is for him.  God, please help me.  this hurts so much.  i’m slipping.  feeling more and more depressed.  so — there’s the thing with my ex.  and his b-day.  and my car.  and the job (ok, lack of a real job).  and the class.  and the vocational counsellor.  and some health things going on that i should see a doctor about – but, i’m afraid to see a doctor — because what if something *is* wrong.  and…  and…  i just don’t know.  i just feel so *wrong* — and i don’t know what to do about it. Sasha We’re all in this alone.  - Lily Tomlin

Response:

Question:

Ryan – Look at FAS by BEST Software (they were recently purchased by SAGE) DeeDee Heyne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a relativley inexpensive PC-based fixed asset management system (Canadian Version). The system must handle both accounting and tax based depreciation. Can anyone offer any suggestions. Thankyou.

  dbhent.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Assetkkeper is a pretty good system but be careful when you buy it. They come out with an updated version annually. You pay full price from the first day its available in January, and you pay the same price if you buy it the following December, but they quit supporting the current year version as soon as the new one is out.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use Asset Keeper by Pro-Ware.  I highly recommend it and it’s relatively inexpensive.  I don’t know if they have a Canadian version, but you might check their website.  www.proware-cpa.com Dick K. I am looking for a relativley inexpensive PC-based fixed asset management system (Canadian Version). The system must handle both accounting and tax based depreciation. Can anyone offer any suggestions. Thankyou.

Response:

You’re right David.  I was not very happy when they told me the software was only good for a year.  Especially when I bought it in October.  They do however prorate the upgrade if you’ve owned it for less than a year.  I only had to pay $75 to upgrade.  I initially resisted upgrading because I know the IRS didn’t change their depreciation rates and I was certain straight line hadn’t changed.  Then I discovered my personal property tax return wouldn’t print out correctly unless I upgraded.  I didn’t like the fact that they hadn’t told me that up front.  I talked to someone who used FAS, and they told me their upgrade was about $2,000 per year which seemed a little high.  I think Asset Keeper is about $300 full upgrade price.  I don’t know how that compares to other programs.  What should I be paying a year for upgrades? Dick K.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Assetkkeper is a pretty good system but be careful when you buy it. They come out with an updated version annually. You pay full price from the first day its available in January, and you pay the same price if you buy it the following December, but they quit supporting the current year version as soon as the new one is out. I use Asset Keeper by Pro-Ware.  I highly recommend it and it’s relatively inexpensive.  I don’t know if they have a Canadian version, but you might check their website.  www.proware-cpa.com Dick K. I am looking for a relativley inexpensive PC-based fixed asset management system (Canadian Version). The system must handle both accounting and tax based depreciation. Can anyone offer any suggestions. Thankyou.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re right David.  I was not very happy when they told me the software was only good for a year.  Especially when I bought it in October.  They do however prorate the upgrade if you’ve owned it for less than a year.  I only had to pay $75 to upgrade.  I initially resisted upgrading because I know the IRS didn’t change their depreciation rates and I was certain straight line hadn’t changed.  Then I discovered my personal property tax return wouldn’t print out correctly unless I upgraded.  I didn’t like the fact that they hadn’t told me that up front.  I talked to someone who used FAS, and they told me their upgrade was about $2,000 per year which seemed a little high.  I think Asset Keeper is about $300 full upgrade price.  I don’t know how that compares to other programs.  What should I be paying a year for upgrades?

You got a break that I certainly didn’t. I only upgrade every few years as I feel the need. I upgraded to version 14 in Aug 99 because I found that version 11 was not calculating properly for upcoming fiscal years ending in 2000. When version 15 came out in Jan, I specificly requested to be given partial credit toward the upgrade. I was informed that it would be unfair to those customers who paid full price back in January, and that next time I should upgrade in January to get the best value for my dollar.

Response:

You might want to look at Franklen Software’s DSP-11 (?) product.  They have a website and sell direct.  I think its 50USD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a relativley inexpensive PC-based fixed asset management system (Canadian Version). The system must handle both accounting and tax based depreciation. Can anyone offer any suggestions. Thankyou.

Response:

I am looking for a relativley inexpensive PC-based fixed asset management system (Canadian Version). The system must handle both accounting and tax based depreciation. Can anyone offer any suggestions. Thankyou.

Response:

    I know this is not exactly what you are looking for.  But have you considered just hiring an outside accounting firm to do this?  I do this for several clients (U.S. not familiar with Canadian if different).  Now many of these clients could afford to buy a software like the fixed asset from PT complete or the one from Intuit.  But then they have to mess with it.  They prefer that I mess with it.  That includes keeping up with the software upgrades and tax laws and making sure the journal entries balance.  I charge a standard monthly fee for this.     Advantages that you gain is that you do not have to maintain the records or write the journal entries.  Saves on labor and allows you do other things.  You do not have to buy (or upgrade) software.  You do not have to keep up with changing laws (granted that is not often.)     This may not be applicable to your business, but perhaps at least it is alternate solution. — Dean L. Covey www.coveyaccounting.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a relativley inexpensive PC-based fixed asset management system (Canadian Version). The system must handle both accounting and tax based depreciation. Can anyone offer any suggestions. Thankyou.

Response:

I use Asset Keeper by Pro-Ware.  I highly recommend it and it’s relatively inexpensive.  I don’t know if they have a Canadian version, but you might check their website.  www.proware-cpa.com Dick K.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a relativley inexpensive PC-based fixed asset management system (Canadian Version). The system must handle both accounting and tax based depreciation. Can anyone offer any suggestions. Thankyou.

Response:

Question:

Will Hancock wrote about Jennifer: No, I think she meant it to be straightforward. If she didn’t, I’ll say it: You’re a good writer, Jenn.  As someone else said, I can’t say I always agree with you, but that certainly doesn’t matter much. Why not?  Is it only those who speak the loudest whose opinion matters?  

It doesn’t matter because on a forum such as this everyone has a chance to voice their own cantakerous opinion, however inept the attempt. It’s not like there’s a post muncher that deletes posts if they’re from someone who isn’t a member of Yasso 800 Borg, or the 10%/week Borg, or the Anti-HRM Borg. If one person expresses an opinion more effectively than another person, it’s no fault of the effective expositor. This is a forum that relies on the written word. If you can’t make yourself be understood, tough. If that frustrates you, then either quit rec.running or practice writing. One’s writing — like one’s running — is only improved by the act thereof.

Response:

Why not?  Is it only those who speak the loudest whose opinion matters?   Oops, no, that’s not what I meant, though I can see how it looks that way. I meant that whether I agree with Jenn has nothing to do with how good a writer she is. (Conversely, I would like to think that whether I agree with someone isn’t contingent on how well they phrase their opinion … but it certainly can’t help to phrase it well!)

Do you mean "it can’t hurt to phrase it well?" I’m getting more and more confused. As an illustration of how difficult it is for mathematicians to understand plain English, I just spent 15 minutes trying to figure out whether your converse really is a converse, and, if so, what it is the converse of. This, despite the fact that the first time I read your post it made perfect sense! Part of the difficulty is in understanding the relationship between "has nothing to do with" and "is not contingent upon." Part has to do with the fact that the second statement is in the subjunctive, and part has to do with the hazy correspondence between the technical and common meanings of "conversely." Technically, the converse of an implication "A implies B" is the implication "B implies A." So the converse of (Jenn is a good writer) implies (I agree with her) is (I agree with Jenn) implies (she is a good writer.) Exercise: Which of these (if either) corresponds with which of your two assertions regarding the relationship between the quality of Jenn’s writing and whether or not you agree with her? Extra credit: Is Jenn a good writer? (And more to the point, is she a good runner?) Notice that neither of the above implications stakes any claim on whether Jenn is, in fact, a good writer. Personally, I think she *is* a rather good writer… for a lawyer. [deletia] — Terry R. McConnell   Mathematics/304B Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150

Response:

(Conversely, I would like to think that whether I agree with someone isn’t contingent on how well they phrase their opinion … but it certainly can’t help to phrase it well!) Do you mean "it can’t hurt to phrase it well?"

Um, yeah. It can’t hurt to phrase it well. What "help" could mean in that sentence, I can’t figure out. Dang. I’m getting more and more confused.

Sorry. <ahem Me too. Technically, the converse of an implication "A implies B" is the implication "B implies A." So the converse of (Jenn is a good writer) implies (I agree with her) is (I agree with Jenn) implies (she is a good writer.) Exercise: Which of these (if either) corresponds with which of your two assertions regarding the relationship between the quality of Jenn’s writing and whether or not you agree with her?

OK, here’s what I meant, in a (perhaps) clearer phrasing: Jenn is a good writer. But that shouldn’t imply that I always agree with her; in fact, I don’t always agree with her. Also, I often agree with people who aren’t good writers. So the fact that I agree with someone shouldn’t imply that the writer is a good one. So was "conversely" used properly? <sigh Extra credit: Is Jenn a good writer?

Yes. (And more to the point, is she a good runner?)

I haven’t the foggiest, but her workouts make her sound like one. So I’ll guess "yes." — Will (Where does ‘it can’t help to phrase it well’ rank alongside ’sortied smart mough a few(lot) training people’? I’m guessing at least Zowtuc understood what he/she wrote, where I can’t for the life of me understand my own post.) — Oklahoma State University (http://www.okstate.edu)

Response:

Will Hancock wrote about Jennifer: No, I think she meant it to be straightforward. If she didn’t, I’ll say

it: You’re a good writer, Jenn.  As someone else said, I can’t say I always agree with you, but that certainly doesn’t matter much. Why not?  Is it only those who speak the loudest whose opinion matters?  Well, I missed my running tonight.  A twelve hour work day.  I seem to be letting matters of humanity and humility get to me today.  Tomorrow I must get that run in. MAry

Response:

Why not?  Is it only those who speak the loudest whose opinion matters?  

Oops, no, that’s not what I meant, though I can see how it looks that way. I meant that whether I agree with Jenn has nothing to do with how good a writer she is. (Conversely, I would like to think that whether I agree with someone isn’t contingent on how well they phrase their opinion … but it certainly can’t help to phrase it well!) I missed my running tonight.  A twelve hour work day.  I seem to be letting matters of humanity and humility get to me today.  Tomorrow I must get that run in.

Well, how about matters of entertainment? I actually cut a run short because my longish work day didn’t give me a chance to get the run in and still see a show I was waiting for on TV. — Will "and it turned out to be a re-run!" — — <http://thrill.ath.okstate.edu Oklahoma State University Athletics <http://www.okstate.com

Response:

I can only hope we don’t give out medals "just for trying" instead of correcting their "grammer" This is one of the problems with US high school system – instead of grades everyone is getting "smiley faces", then there’s a group hug, and off you go

to college. Now Oleg, remember, just like racing, we’re all winners.  :) —   David "IndyRunr" Before you buy.

Response:

I’ll accept that as a backhanded compliment but point out [adopting a Loyd Benson demeanor in a Dan Quayle debate.] "I’ve known writers, I’ve known great writers, good writers are friends of mine.  And you, Ms. Jennifer are no writer."

No, I think she meant it to be straightforward. If she didn’t, I’ll say it: You’re a good writer, Jenn. As someone else said, I can’t say I always agree with you, but that certainly doesn’t matter much. Anyway, my (un-asked for) opinion in this whole thing is that Jenn has fallen for a Jenn-baiting troll! I mean, c’mon, "Zowtuc Lowtuc?" And he’s a WebTV user to boot! Ack! If "sortied a few(lot) training people" or whatever doesn’t bait Jenn, then surely you’ll agree the WebTV address does. — Will "how to past four miles in Oklahoma without sortieing few(lot) cattle?" — — <http://thrill.ath.okstate.edu Oklahoma State University Athletics <http://www.okstate.com

Response:

As someone who’s English is still far from being perfect, I would expect myself agreeing with Mary rather than Jenn.

  While we’re speaking of such trivia: Please wrap your posts somewhere before 80 characters.   I’m resisting, with difficulty, going in to the laundry list of problems regarding the teaching of writing in the US.  Suffice it to say that we see many illustrations here, both of effect and of cause. But I don’t – I think there’s a big difference between someone spelling "else" as "esle" in a hurry and someone like this cummings person. If you want to be understood,

– Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

Jennifer – "I’m changed! It’s a miracle! Demons of sarcasm, be gone!"

Please don’t lose your sarcasm–you’re good at it.  Lord knows we could use more people who appreciate (and use) good grammar along with a hint of sarcasm.  I enjoy reading your posts, even if (and sometimes especially because) I may disagree with you. dave

Response:

Just a quick note…and yes, you might expect it to be sappy, coming from me. Hey, I’ve got a rep to uphold, yes?  I read some posts this morning…don’t remember the thread.  And it just made me feel bad.  I think Jennifer is probably the most gifted writer I have read online.  But…isn’t it okay for others to be not so gifted?  Isn’t it okay to simply write from the hip, uninhibitively,  in a style that yes….might be closer to Cummings than Hemingway?  Actually, I have caught MANY semantic, spelling, and other errors in Jennifer’s posts…but, I let them go, because I look at the larger picture.  I really wish that a person could post online in r.r. without being made to look like the fool because he didn’t take time to polish, proofread, consult Funk and Wagnell’s, etc.  The greatest way to make the spirit die in YOUNG writers is to tie their hands to conventions.  Can’t we also grant some freedoms, in the sake of hospitality, to the writers in r.r.?   Mary

As someone who’s English is still far from being perfect, I would expect myself agreeing with Mary rather than Jenn. But I don’t – I think there’s a big difference between someone spelling "else" as "esle" in a hurry and someone like this cummings person. If you want to be understood, you have to make an effort at making your thoughts organized. I can only hope we don’t give out medals "just for trying" instead of correcting their "grammer" This is one of the problems with US high school system – instead of grades everyone is getting "smiley faces", then there’s a group hug, and off you go to college. No big deal if you can’t spell or add 2 and 2 – that’s what computers are for, right? —  Oleg "he’s such a great kid, at least he didn’t shoot anyone… yet…"

Response:

Just a quick note…and yes, you might expect it to be sappy, coming from me.

Hey, I’ve got a rep to uphold, yes?  I read some posts this morning…don’t remember the thread.  And it just made me feel bad.  I think Jennifer is probably the most gifted writer I have read online. I’ll accept that as a backhanded compliment but point out [adopting a Loyd Benson demeanor in a Dan Quayle debate.] "I’ve known writers, I’ve known great writers, good writers are friends of mine.  And you, Ms. Jennifer are no writer." But…isn’t it okay for

others to be not so gifted?  Isn’t it okay to simply write from the hip, uninhibitively,  in a style that yes….might be closer to Cummings than Hemingway? Cummings was neither random, rambling nor remiss and of course I can’t resist pointing out that ‘from the hip’ is dangerously close to ‘out your ass.’ Actually, I have caught MANY semantic, spelling, and other errors

in Jennifer’s posts…but, I let them go, because I look at the larger picture. As have I, and it annoys me to no end. I’ve phrequently misspelled words, although I remember to never split an infinitive.  I’m specific, more or less, and my one word sentences? Eliminated!  I try to avoid ampersands & abbreviations, etc….and don’t never use double negatives.  I confess, however, to falling into the trap of excess parenthetical remarks (however relevant) and use the occasional foreign word or phrase — clearly not apropos. Here’s my method of posting: (1) I reply online and type a response, rather quickly; (2) read it; (3) post; (4) reread.  If I see an error or phrase I’m unhappy with, I’ll delete, revise and repost.  The entire procedure takes about 5-15 minutes for a post.  If posted for several minutes, it makes no sense to delete a flawed response from my local server  because the post has been propagated by and to other servers and  is property of USENET.  It’s then subject to scrutiny by all  (including my old 12th grade English teacher who taught me to ‘proofread carefully to see if you words out.’) Once posted, I can merely obsessively stew about any residual errors. And the errors of others?  Absolutely, I’ll seize upon them, but typically only if there is a humorous or sarcastic twist.   I really wish that a person could post online in r.r. without being made to

look like the fool because he didn’t take time to polish, proofread, consult Funk and Wagnell’s, etc. And now we arrive to the heart of your contention.  And, you’re wrong, at least by my estimation. The thread we tread, is the one entitled "Anyone do trance training say 14 miles on.? How t"  I encourage you to reread my reply.  I was reasonably polite, somewhat sarcastic, and then I arrived at the phrase "sortied smart mouth a few(lot) training people"   It was not polished, not proofread, not a sentence, with no time spent worrying about style.  In fact, it was totally unintelligible.   Am I wrong?  You tell me what that means! I genuinely do not know.  By avoiding earthly conventions of grammar, he may have well just wrapped a skin around him, yelled "ook, ook," banged a club on the computer and hit the SEND button.  The greatest way to make the spirit die in YOUNG writers is to tie their hands to conventions.  Can’t we also grant some freedoms, in the sake of hospitality, to the writers in r.r.?   Perhaps the bad writers should die young and become accountants. (not sure here if I’ve insulted bad writers or accountants — get back to me on that point) And perhaps, the greatest way to NEVER allow great writers to reach their potential is to tell them they’re doing a good job when in fact they’re writing crap.  Please note, for the sake of relevancy to this group, that my opinion extends to running also. Course, I could just be off the wall here.  Maybe what you’re really saying to me is to "be nice." Jennifer – "I’m changed! It’s a miracle! Demons of sarcasm, be gone!"

Response:

Just a quick note…and yes, you might expect it to be sappy, coming from me. Hey, I’ve got a rep to uphold, yes?  I read some posts this morning…don’t remember the thread.  

  Finally saw the one you’re probably referring to.   And it just made me feel bad.  I think Jennifer is probably the most gifted writer I have read online.  But…isn’t it okay for others to be not so gifted?  Isn’t it okay to simply write from the hip, uninhibitively,  in a style that yes….might be closer to Cummings than Hemingway?  

  Your writing, one might say was more in the style of Cummings.  The post I think you’re referring to was merely rife with typos and other infelicities.  There _is_ a difference, as my sister the english major, whose favorite writer was e.e. cummings, taught me. Actually, I have caught MANY semantic, spelling, and other errors in Jennifer’s posts…but, I let them go, because I look at the larger picture.

  Ditto, and for that matter I commit them myself.   I really wish that a person could post online in r.r. without being made to look like the fool because he didn’t take time to polish, proofread, consult Funk and Wagnell’s, etc.  

  Erm.  Much as I’d like to agree with you, the post I think is being referred to was well below the question of ‘polishing’ and consulting dictionaries.  Whether it warranted the response received is still a question, but let’s keep the question on the basis of what was there. The greatest way to make the spirit die in YOUNG writers is to tie their hands to conventions.  Can’t we also grant some freedoms, in the sake of hospitality, to the writers in r.r.?  

  We do, quite often.  Then again, this is the net and we have little reason to think that the author was young either.  That note, from what I saw (and I confess I didn’t read closely, in part because of the writing), could have been written by a 50 year old as easily as a 15 year old.   But even if 15, 15 year olds should be able to write better (says this parent of a child who passed 15).  Then too, the author could have English as his 3rd language in which case he is not doing so badly but should mention the fact next time around.   English is hard enough to make understandable even when written in the conventions.  If being understood is a prime goal, which I would think is the case when one is asking for advice, then depart from conventional spelling and grammar at your own risk.  This is not alt.writing.experimental (to make up a name) where the _point_ is to develop and experiment writing styles and readers can be expected to be looking forward to innovative ways of using the keyboard.   So … although Jenn’s response may have been overdone, I’m not going to sign off on ‘anything goes’ for spelling and grammar either.   N.B.: for writing style, I think many in rec.arts.books are better than Jenn.  You might check out the group, though I recommend skipping anything crossposted to alt.postmodern. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

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Just a quick note…and yes, you might expect it to be sappy, coming from me. Hey, I’ve got a rep to uphold, yes?  I read some posts this morning…don’t remember the thread.  And it just made me feel bad.  I think Jennifer is probably the most gifted writer I have read online.  But…isn’t it okay for others to be not so gifted?  Isn’t it okay to simply write from the hip, uninhibitively,  in a style that yes….might be closer to Cummings than Hemingway?  Actually, I have caught MANY semantic, spelling, and other errors in Jennifer’s posts…but, I let them go, because I look at the larger picture.  I really wish that a person could post online in r.r. without being made to look like the fool because he didn’t take time to polish, proofread, consult Funk and Wagnell’s, etc.  The greatest way to make the spirit die in YOUNG writers is to tie their hands to conventions.  Can’t we also grant some freedoms, in the sake of hospitality, to the writers in r.r.?   Mary

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Question:

Try Navision Financials at: www.navision-us.com Ron Litt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

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Consider calling SBT’s PreSales line at 800.944.1000 (when the thing starts talking, press 0 and ask the operator for PreSales) You might be surprised with what’s available now… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try Navision Financials at: www.navision-us.com Ron Litt I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

check this out – http://www.cfonet.com/html/98MAcfo.html  it compares SBT with other mid-range packages

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I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

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Question:

I was just wondering if anyone out there has ever heard of Trenchmouth?  They are from Chicago and have an album on Skene!, and supposedly on Discord.  I grew up with the guitar player and his brother.

Trenchmouth has put out two 7" records, an album, and a split 7" with Circus Lupus. I don’t recall the names of the record labels on their first two 7"ers offhand, but the LP/CD is on Skene! and the split 7" is half Dischord and half Skene!. Trenchmouth is one of the most unique bands I’ve ever heard.  They play a style of music which blends punk, emo, funk, world music, reggae, etc. Very cool. —    "Life is inhuman when you are too old to be young." -Bill Nelson   /       Paul Silver          /           Radius Records            /    All opinions expressed are strictly my own, unless I stole them.

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I was just wondering if anyone out there has ever heard of Trenchmouth?  They are from Chicago and have an album on Skene!, and supposedly on Discord.  I grew up with the guitar player and his brother.

I rather enjoyed them.  I saw them open for Fugazi at some hovel up near Clark Street (Chi.) in June of ‘90 – best Fugazi show I’ve seen btw.  In strange Replacements fashion, they handed their instruments to some fans near the stage that they pulled up with them.  Guy Picciotto was amazing — standing on his head, dancing with people who came on stage to stage dive, and stage diving himself to the point where Ian was like, "Hey!  You’re with the band, remember?!" — but it was all done well so that everybody was in a great mood about it all.  This is much unlike other Fugazi show’s I’ve seen where the fans get out of hand and the band stops the show because of it. Oh, yeah … Trenchmouth was alright. — greg                     | "You want a mystery?  Pick up your phone book … yeah, "PEACE" this       | around here?"        – Howe Gelb

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I was just wondering if anyone out there has ever heard of Trenchmouth?  They are from Chicago and have an album on Skene!, and supposedly on Discord.  I grew up with the guitar player and his brother. —      Rob Knautz    Accounting God    Bradley University, Peoria, Ill.             — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – —        We Need to Make Welfare As Hard to Get As Building Permits

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I was just wondering if anyone out there has ever heard of Trenchmouth?  They are from Chicago and have an album on Skene!, and supposedly on Discord.  I grew up with the guitar player and his brother.

i was lucky enough to have seen them twice over the last couple of years… great band.  a friend of mine from grand rapids, mi. knew of them and we went to see them open for some cheesy metal band in ann arbor a few years back. even though the stage was tiny as hell they were great.  fred, the drummer, is funny as hell… he just starts talking shit inbetween songs (kinda reminded me of flea a little in that respect).  they’re really nice too in person.  i talked to the singer and drummer after the show and stuff… i even write to fred every once in awhile and always get a reply back. they have a bunch of singles out on vinyl, and the album on Skene! (which by the way has a lot of re-recorded stuff from their singles, much better quality though).  i heard that they were hanging with the whole discord crowd lately, and that they’re now doing the nation of ulysses thing with the suits and ties and stuff on stage.  and also that they all have short hair too (the lead singer used to have real long dreads).   anyway, this is definitely a band to listen to… much better than the majority of the crap you’d hear on the radio or on 120 minutes (i actually turned that crap on last night… the only thing worth mentioning was the butthole surfers video). —-JINN

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