Question:

Hi, I’m going back to college this Tuesday and my goal is to go as far in Accounting as I possibly can. I was previously in college for Computer Science from 96-98 but that didn’t work out well. I’ve been at a low paying job for awhile now, and I’ve slowly gotten my life together and paid down debt/have a budget/have my life more organized. Going back to school is important to me because I can no longer take the meaningless, $8 an hour jobs i’ve had since i’ve been "out of school." I figure i’ll be in school for 2-3 years (depending if I want anothe associates/certificate or bachelors/cpa) but in the meantime I need to do something to find a higher paying job. Are there any good books or home courses I can take to learn bookkeeping quickly/efficiently so I can find a bookkeeping job while I’m in school for accounting? I currently make $8 an hour and making $11 or $12 an hour bookkeeping would be a dream come true for me (lol) while i’m in school. I’ve been reading my college text (up to page 200) for the past week or so and I’m really taking to accounting and everything is becoming clear, I can’t wait for my classes to begin next week. In the meantime though i’d appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction of learning everything i need to know about bookkeeping so I can get my foot in the door and make some more money. thanks, Lou

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m going back to college this Tuesday and my goal is to go as far in Accounting as I possibly can. I was previously in college for Computer Science from 96-98 but that didn’t work out well. I’ve been at a low paying job for awhile now, and I’ve slowly gotten my life together and paid down debt/have a budget/have my life more organized. Going back to school is important to me because I can no longer take the meaningless, $8 an hour jobs i’ve had since i’ve been "out of school." I figure i’ll be in school for 2-3 years (depending if I want anothe associates/certificate or bachelors/cpa) but in the meantime I need to do something to find a higher paying job. Are there any good books or home courses I can take to learn bookkeeping quickly/efficiently so I can find a bookkeeping job while I’m in school for accounting? I currently make $8 an hour and making $11 or $12 an hour bookkeeping would be a dream come true for me (lol) while i’m in school. I’ve been reading my college text (up to page 200) for the past week or so and I’m really taking to accounting and everything is becoming clear, I can’t wait for my classes to begin next week. In the meantime though i’d appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction of learning everything i need to know about bookkeeping so I can get my foot in the door and make some more money. thanks, Lou

Hi Lou I could recommend for you Frank Wood, Business Accounting. This book are widely used by most college and working adults. It is a useful and practical books. You can try obtain and read it. Furthermore. I would like to give a piece of advise to you. Just study on bookeeping would not get you highe pay job, why not you go for the professional accountancy courses, like ACCA or CIMA since you are interesting in this profession. All the best in your future undertaking

Response:

I see lots of ads for companies that want part time bookkeepers who know how to use QuickBooks.  So, if you can learn QuickBooks, and are learning accounting at the same time, you’ll probably find a lot of part time bookkeeping jobs in your area.  You can get a free trial version of QuickBooks at http://www.qbtrial.com to see how it works.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m going back to college this Tuesday and my goal is to go as far in Accounting as I possibly can. I was previously in college for Computer Science from 96-98 but that didn’t work out well. I’ve been at a low paying job for awhile now, and I’ve slowly gotten my life together and paid down debt/have a budget/have my life more organized. Going back to school is important to me because I can no longer take the meaningless, $8 an hour jobs i’ve had since i’ve been "out of school." I figure i’ll be in school for 2-3 years (depending if I want anothe associates/certificate or bachelors/cpa) but in the meantime I need to do something to find a higher paying job. Are there any good books or home courses I can take to learn bookkeeping quickly/efficiently so I can find a bookkeeping job while I’m in school for accounting? I currently make $8 an hour and making $11 or $12 an hour bookkeeping would be a dream come true for me (lol) while i’m in school. I’ve been reading my college text (up to page 200) for the past week or so and I’m really taking to accounting and everything is becoming clear, I can’t wait for my classes to begin next week. In the meantime though i’d appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction of learning everything i need to know about bookkeeping so I can get my foot in the door and make some more money. thanks, Lou

Response:

Peachtree might be a better idea.  It is more of a standard package. Bill Couture

Response:

Dear Lou: I would suggest any basic accounting text by Weygandt/Kieso/Kell but, then again, it sounds like you’re a slug so you might want to rethink flippin’ burgers for a living… REBEL CPA IN LITTLE ROCK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m going back to college this Tuesday and my goal is to go as far in Accounting as I possibly can. I was previously in college for Computer Science from 96-98 but that didn’t work out well. I’ve been at a low paying job for awhile now, and I’ve slowly gotten my life together and paid down debt/have a budget/have my life more organized. Going back to school is important to me because I can no longer take the meaningless, $8 an hour jobs i’ve had since i’ve been "out of school." I figure i’ll be in school for 2-3 years (depending if I want anothe associates/certificate or bachelors/cpa) but in the meantime I need to do something to find a higher paying job. Are there any good books or home courses I can take to learn bookkeeping quickly/efficiently so I can find a bookkeeping job while I’m in school for accounting? I currently make $8 an hour and making $11 or $12 an hour bookkeeping would be a dream come true for me (lol) while i’m in school. I’ve been reading my college text (up to page 200) for the past week or so and I’m really taking to accounting and everything is becoming clear, I can’t wait for my classes to begin next week. In the meantime though i’d appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction of learning everything i need to know about bookkeeping so I can get my foot in the door and make some more money. thanks, Lou

Response:

Question:

Following is the preliminary text of the write-up I did for my current firm: On July 25, Congress passed the new law ("Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002" or the Act) regulating public corporations and their auditors. Following is a summary of certain key provisions. ACCOUNTING OVERSIGHT BOARD The Act establishes a new oversight board that is not a government agency. The board will: * register SEC audit firms, * adopt auditing, quality control, ethics, independence and other audit related standards, * inspect audit firms, * investigate and discipline audit firms, and * perform other functions for the SEC. The board will be funded by fees imposed on SEC registrants based on their market capitalization.  It can tap the SEC’s enforcement powers for subpoenas, etc. STANDARD SETTING The Act does not abolish the FASB, per se. Instead, it provides for standard setting by a private entity (which could be a somewhat changed FASB) that has certain restrictions on its construction and actions. That entity must have a majority of trustees who are not and have not within two years been in public accounting. Further, the board of trustees must have procedures to ensure prompt consideration of changes in accounting principles. This entity will be funded through the Accounting Oversight Board’s funding mechanism. PROHIBITED ACTS Auditors of SEC registrants will be prohibited from performing the following services for SEC clients they audit: * Bookkeeping * Financial information systems (but not other systems) design and implementation * Appraisals, etc. * Actuarial services * Internal audit outsourcing * Management functions or human resources * Brokerage and investment banking related services * Legal services In addition, all non-audit services performed for an SEC registrant by its auditors must be approved in advance by the audit committee. This list of prohibited services is far narrower than proposed under the Clinton administration, and leaves open many opportunities for the Final 4 to perform consulting services for their clients. These changes have no direct impact on most local CPAs. However, the public may come to view performing these prohibited acts for any attest clients as indicative of a lack of independence. CORPORATE RESPONSIBILITY & FRAUD Audit committees must be composed only of board members who receive no compensation from the company other than as a board or committee member. Those committees will have enhanced powers and responsibilities under the Act. CEOs and CFOs must certify several things to the SEC in annual and quarterly reports. Among these are that "based on such officer’s knowledge, the financial statements … fairly present in all material respects the financial condition and results of operations of the issuer." Further, these signing officers are responsible for establishing and maintaining sufficient "internal controls to ensure that material information relating to the issuer and its consolidated subsidiaries is made known to such officers…," and for evaluating those controls within 90 days of each report. They must also disclose to the audit committee any deficiencies in the controls and "any fraud, whether or not material, that involves management or other employees who have a significant role in the issuer’s internal controls." All material off balance sheet transactions must be disclosed in annual and quarterly reports. Statements of stock ownership must now be filed within 10 days of acquiring shares by any officer, director, or 10% shareholder. In addition the SEC is empowered to expand the list of required disclosures. Loans to directors or executive officers are prohibited. However, certain loans (e.g., credit cards or home mortgages) in their ordinary course of business by consumer credit companies are not prohibited. Officers must also forfeit, retroactively, any bonus or other compensation based on performance when financial statements are restated. The Act contains complex rules prohibiting insider trading during blackout periods. It also includes a variety of administrative, criminal and bankruptcy provisions that should have little impact on CPAs. A complete copy of the Act is available at: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c107:./temp/~c107w8pjaP COMMENTARY: FASB can survive, provided they change their bylaws and some board members.  Moreover, they will be supported by public company funds, not CPA dues.  Will this change anything, especially regarding FASB’s “wrong turn” a few years ago?  That remains to be seen. The list of prohibited acts is very skimpy.  My old Final 4 firm refrained from doing all of these (except financial system implementation) for attest clients, whether public or not.  You could get fired for several of them.  By contrast, Andersen did all of them, whenever they got the chance, for attest clients.  Certainly, prudent auditors refrained from most of these, as they ensured lack of independence. The new penalty provisions (not discussed above) MIGHT help, but see my earlier posting regarding deterrence of crooks.  If the reward is big enough (say, a 24,000 s.f. house in Boca), some people will risk going to jail.  The new sanctions, however, will, if enforced, punish the offenders much worse than they got under prior law.  (Note:  under the U.S. constitutional prohibition against ex post facto laws, the culprits of the past will not face the new penalties.  Let’s just hope for big shareholder lawsuit judgments.) How much will this change the accounting profession?  My bet is not much.  We may see differences in standard setting practices, or not. CPAs are mostly a cautious bunch, so those few firms still doing any of the prohibited acts are likely to quit. As always, comments are welcome from my esteemed colleagues. S.F. Cardwell Author of “Dot Com” (After a freebie like the above, I deserve a brief ad)

Response:

Question:

Hope you are programming games or some such and not Financial Apps. Peter

Response:

Of course.  And I hope you’re not programming and you stick with accounting. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hope you are programming games or some such and not Financial Apps. Peter

Response:

If he was, he likely would not waste his time making snide comments on an accounting newsgroup. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What makes you think he’s not a great programmer? Of course.  And I hope you’re not programming and you stick with accounting. –         ____       _      | ____o____/_|      |  o’

Response:

Hi, William: Thanks for your reply.  I’m a little confused, though. Say I have two credit cards with the following details: Balance         Interest Rate   Interest Amount $5000.00        10.00%          $41.66 $1000.00        28.80%          $24.00 Wouldn’t it make sense to pay the card with the highest interest _amount_, rather than the one with the highest interest _rate_? Thanks, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to write a computer program that will take as input a list of credit cards and, given the person’s budget, calculate the best amounts to pay on each debt. Right now I’m just doing something like this: loop through credit cards while we have money   calculate the card with the highest interest amount using (interest rate / 12 * balance)   add $1 to the amount to pay to this card and decrease the balance by $1 go back to the start of the loop There’s got to be a formula for this, no?  I’m not looking for complete accuracy, only to provide a guide to the best way to spend the person’s bills budget.  I wonder how much money I’ve wasted paying credit cards which had the highest interest rate and a lower balance than another card which had lower interest and a much higher balance…  so I’d save $10 on interest on the 1st card while I’d rack up $20 on the other. Can anyone help me on this?  I’d really appreciate it. Thanks, John Compare i for all debts; If i=max, pay p where i = interest rate net of any tax deduction and p=principal In other words, pay off the one charging the highest after tax interest rate first. Regards, Bill

Response:

Thanks for everyone’s help.  I know it’s not rocket science, but thinking about accounting generally makes my head hurt.  I’ll stick to the computer programming… hehe John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Say I have two credit cards with the following details: Balance         Interest Rate   Interest Amount $5000.00        10.00%          $41.66 $1000.00        28.80%          $24.00 Wouldn’t it make sense to pay the card with the highest interest _amount_, rather than the one with the highest interest _rate_? For crying out loud. If you have $5,000 available to pay down your credit cards, pay off 100% of the $1,000 balance and 80% of the $5,000 balance. That will save you the most interest. Pay off the high interest debt first. This is not rocket science and it does not take a computer program. easy2000

Response:

Say I have two credit cards with the following details: Balance         Interest Rate   Interest Amount $5000.00        10.00%          $41.66 $1000.00        28.80%          $24.00 Wouldn’t it make sense to pay the card with the highest interest _amount_, rather than the one with the highest interest _rate_?

For crying out loud. If you have $5,000 available to pay down your credit cards, pay off 100% of the $1,000 balance and 80% of the $5,000 balance. That will save you the most interest. Pay off the high interest debt first. This is not rocket science and it does not take a computer program. easy2000

Response:

No. 28.80% of 100.00 = 28.80 10.00% of 288.00 = 28.80 In other words you can buy 288$$ or 100$$ for 28.80 a month. Which do you want?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, William: Thanks for your reply.  I’m a little confused, though. Say I have two credit cards with the following details: Balance Interest Rate Interest Amount $5000.00 10.00% $41.66 $1000.00 28.80% $24.00 Wouldn’t it make sense to pay the card with the highest interest _amount_, rather than the one with the highest interest _rate_? Thanks, John I’m trying to write a computer program that will take as input a list of credit cards and, given the person’s budget, calculate the best amounts to pay on each debt. Right now I’m just doing something like this: loop through credit cards while we have money   calculate the card with the highest interest amount using (interest rate / 12 * balance)   add $1 to the amount to pay to this card and decrease the balance by $1 go back to the start of the loop There’s got to be a formula for this, no?  I’m not looking for complete accuracy, only to provide a guide to the best way to spend the person’s bills budget.  I wonder how much money I’ve wasted paying credit cards which had the highest interest rate and a lower balance than another card which had lower interest and a much higher balance…  so I’d save $10 on interest on the 1st card while I’d rack up $20 on the other. Can anyone help me on this?  I’d really appreciate it. Thanks, John Compare i for all debts; If i=max, pay p where i = interest rate net of any tax deduction and p=principal In other words, pay off the one charging the highest after tax interest rate first. Regards, Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to write a computer program that will take as input a list of credit cards and, given the person’s budget, calculate the best amounts to pay on each debt. Right now I’m just doing something like this: loop through credit cards while we have money   calculate the card with the highest interest amount using (interest rate / 12 * balance)   add $1 to the amount to pay to this card and decrease the balance by $1 go back to the start of the loop There’s got to be a formula for this, no?  I’m not looking for complete accuracy, only to provide a guide to the best way to spend the person’s bills budget.  I wonder how much money I’ve wasted paying credit cards which had the highest interest rate and a lower balance than another card which had lower interest and a much higher balance…  so I’d save $10 on interest on the 1st card while I’d rack up $20 on the other. Can anyone help me on this?  I’d really appreciate it. Thanks, John

Compare i for all debts; If i=max, pay p where i = interest rate net of any tax deduction and p=principal In other words, pay off the one charging the highest after tax interest rate first. Regards, Bill

Response:

I’m trying to write a computer program that will take as input a list of credit cards and, given the person’s budget, calculate the best amounts to pay on each debt. Right now I’m just doing something like this: loop through credit cards while we have money   calculate the card with the highest interest amount using (interest rate / 12 * balance)   add $1 to the amount to pay to this card and decrease the balance by $1 go back to the start of the loop There’s got to be a formula for this, no?  I’m not looking for complete accuracy, only to provide a guide to the best way to spend the person’s bills budget.  I wonder how much money I’ve wasted paying credit cards which had the highest interest rate and a lower balance than another card which had lower interest and a much higher balance…  so I’d save $10 on interest on the 1st card while I’d rack up $20 on the other. Can anyone help me on this?  I’d really appreciate it. Thanks, John

Response:

Question:

In conjunction with National Headache Awareness Week, June 3-9, Bristol-Myers Squibb Company, makers of Excedrin Headache-by-Profession Index, a survey to determine which professionals are most likely to suffer from headaches in the workplace. Accountants won the survey, logging the highest percent (49 percent) of workers who reported suffering weekday headaches. Next came librarians (43 percent), followed closely by bus and truck drivers (42 percent). <snip Accountants cited sloppy bookkeeping of disorganized clients as the main source of headaches. Librarians said their headaches derive from people who don’t know how to use research resources. Truck and bus drivers attribute most of their headaches to bumper-to-bumper traffic. http://www.accountingweb.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=48889&d=101&h=0&f=0&… http://www.bms.com/news/press/data/fg_press_release_1668.html — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://home.att.net/~jdhcpa/mainpage.html Washington, USA

Response:

When I was in public, my main source of headaches came from my employer. Have met lawyers who feel similarly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Accountants cited sloppy bookkeeping of disorganized clients as the main source of headaches.

Response:

Question:

Will qtable also include the changes to the forms, etc?  - or will they still have to acquire the forms from Intuit via the tax table subscription? biz.comp.accounting moderator Mike Block note: Qtable only lets you use your last tax table indefinitely. It does not include new forms, but small businesses do not need them. As a CPA I regularly cross out dates on forms and use them for older years. I learned, in the tax department of a prominent international CPA firm, that we could use plain white paper in place of any form by saying:                         "Statement In Lieu of Form XXXX" Despite the stated rules, I never heard of problem with doing either of these things. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Block says that there is this Qtable add-on out t Mike, if you’re out there help us get Qtable. -Alan Edwards Yea, I can’t find it either. Sorry, we worked on the site today and now all add-ons do not come up. Qtable is listed as:  Qmenu, Qpass, Qtable http://irg.i-connect.com/ 12 Oct 2000 Please go to that site for full details.      Mike Block – Tax Cut CPA   World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester     FREE  NetLedger accounting   FREE 462p QB books/error codes 100+ QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

Response:

Mike Block says that there is this Qtable add-on out t Mike, if you’re out there help us get Qtable. -Alan Edwards Yea, I can’t find it either.

Sorry, we worked on the site today and now all add-ons do not come up. Qtable is listed as:  Qmenu, Qpass, Qtable http://irg.i-connect.com/ 12 Oct 2000 Please go to that site for full details.      Mike Block – Tax Cut CPA   World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester     FREE  NetLedger accounting   FREE 462p QB books/error codes 100+ QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

Response:

Question:

In article <Wcc26.110081$Ww.2058…@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>, "Seventh Element" <seventh_elem…@hotmail.com.spam> wrote: > > I know you deny having the youngest child personality, but you have > > a way of snapping at people that is classic youngest child behavior. > > Your attitude towards people turns on a dime. When you turned on > > Morey, i seriously felt sorry for him. I felt embarrassed that you > > could be so oblivious to someones feelings. You are the type of person > > who farts in a public place and is not  embarrassed. You don’t seem > > to feel shame, so I guess you are not sensitive to causing others loss > > of face. They say my best match would be the youngest child because i’m > > the eldest child. It will never happen. > My God, you’re so smart! Please tell us what your IQ is. Give us exact > data!

Oh shut up, nutbar. if that was your idea of a troll, crawl back under your bridge and try again. The successful troll has mastered the art of stealth and has also the ability to legitimize his actions to at least a small degree. A succesful troll has a long lifespan…you will be dead in under 30 days. A succesful troll stays alive despite angry and resentful comments flung at him from all sides. A good troll earns some sympathy and respect. You are not a good troll.

Response:

In article <human_all_too_human-43CDE0.02032528122…@news.smartt.com>,   all too human <human_all_too_hu…@hotmail.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <92edbc$g5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, grach2…@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <92e4hi$9k…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > In article <92c3o7$nl…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > > >   concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > In article <92c1dq$m5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > > > >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > > Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it > > > says > > > > > more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So > > please, > > > > > feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. > > > > > -Liz Q. > > > > no, i just have noticed that the youngest child types sometimes say > > > very > > > > hurtful things out of the blue. they don’t seem to have the > > restraint > > > > that normal people have. it could be a coincidence, but i’ve only > > had > > > > people in the workplace say rude things to me about 5 times and it > > > > has always been the youngest child who shot off their mouth without > > > > thinking. i think the youngest child type tend to be bullies. i’m > > > > really afraid of the youngest child in some ways. i really never > > > > know what to expect from you.  i alway prepare for an unpleasant > > > > surprise when i read your posts because i never know if you are > > going > > > to > > > > suddenly turn vicious. > > > Perhaps you need to join a moderated newsgroup. Ah…but then, you’d > > > get kicked out, wouldn’t you, for your bad behavior? > > > A second idea…don’t read my posts. Filter me out! > > > > if there was some predictability to it , it would > > > > not be so unnerving. > > > Here’s how you can predict it, Cliff. When you are an asshole, I > > > respond accordingly. > > > > i’m not afraid of morey because i understand why > > > > he says mean stuff. i can pretty much predict with 100% accuracy > > what > > > > he will say or think or feel in a given situation. > > > Yeah, I can pretty much predict Troll behavior as well. For instance, > > > I’ll bet you keep whining as you are now. Whenever anyone stands up to > > > you, at first you try to beat them down, and if you’re unsuccessful, > > > you complain. > > > > you are sort of like > > > > a loose cannon. maybe you could use this feedback to formulate a new > > > > years resolution of some sort. i hope you don’t think i’m joking > > > > because this is one of the rare occasions when i’m serious. > > > I take you very seriously, Cliff. I just don’t CARE what you think > > > because of your bratty behavior. You see, there’s a difference. > > > You’re just upset because I won’t take your crap. Get over it. > > > Perhaps you could make a New Year’s resolution to become a nicer group > > > member. To mature a little. To be more supportive of your fellow > > SPers. > > > Yeah, nice dream. > > > I have a hard time seeing you as a first born…you’re like a bratty > > > little brother that I wish would get lost. > > > Have a nice day! > > > -Liz Q. > > > Sent via Deja.com > > > http://www.deja.com/ > > Liz,  i don’t know why you have decided to turn on me. i assume this is > > some form of scapegoating because things are not going well in your > > real life. this is only the internet, so it means zero to me. > > i am just curious about the youngest child personality. it is a > > personality type i don’t even begin to understand. we all have > > specialized roles of perhaps equal importance. you should not feel > > worthless because you are the youngest. i feel badly that i have > > laid open the inner workings of your psyche for all to see. i was > > just poking around . I did not think I would get so close to revealing > > the real you. i guess "bratty" is the worst insult you can think of, > > being the baby. > > i don’t plan to live much longer, so I hope you can refrain from > > dehumanizing me in the future. try being kind to me. give me some > > slack. > > Cliff > Cliff i am appaled. A strong young(ish) man like you trawling for > insincere sympathy? Pull yourself together man. You can pull yourself > out. It is slow but you can do it. We all can. there’s just too much > baggage in the way. Toss the baggage and you will soar. If only it were > easier…

TRAWLING FOR SYMPATHY IS A TRICK I LEARNED FROM ROBERT. FOR SURE, I CAST A WIDE NET TO PICK UP ANY KIND OF ATTENTION, BUT ROBERT HAS TAUGHT ME THAT SUICIDE IS THE ULTIMATE SYMPATHY GETTING TECHNIQUE. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <92edbc$g5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, grach2…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <92e4hi$9k…@nnrp1.deja.com>, >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <92c3o7$nl…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > >   concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > In article <92c1dq$m5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > > >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it > > says > > > > more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So > please, > > > > feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. > > > > -Liz Q. > > > no, i just have noticed that the youngest child types sometimes say > > very > > > hurtful things out of the blue. they don’t seem to have the > restraint > > > that normal people have. it could be a coincidence, but i’ve only > had > > > people in the workplace say rude things to me about 5 times and it > > > has always been the youngest child who shot off their mouth without > > > thinking. i think the youngest child type tend to be bullies. i’m > > > really afraid of the youngest child in some ways. i really never > > > know what to expect from you.  i alway prepare for an unpleasant > > > surprise when i read your posts because i never know if you are > going > > to > > > suddenly turn vicious. > > Perhaps you need to join a moderated newsgroup. Ah…but then, you’d > > get kicked out, wouldn’t you, for your bad behavior? > > A second idea…don’t read my posts. Filter me out! > > > if there was some predictability to it , it would > > > not be so unnerving. > > Here’s how you can predict it, Cliff. When you are an asshole, I > > respond accordingly. > > > i’m not afraid of morey because i understand why > > > he says mean stuff. i can pretty much predict with 100% accuracy > what > > > he will say or think or feel in a given situation. > > Yeah, I can pretty much predict Troll behavior as well. For instance, > > I’ll bet you keep whining as you are now. Whenever anyone stands up to > > you, at first you try to beat them down, and if you’re unsuccessful, > > you complain. > > > you are sort of like > > > a loose cannon. maybe you could use this feedback to formulate a new > > > years resolution of some sort. i hope you don’t think i’m joking > > > because this is one of the rare occasions when i’m serious. > > I take you very seriously, Cliff. I just don’t CARE what you think > > because of your bratty behavior. You see, there’s a difference. > > You’re just upset because I won’t take your crap. Get over it. > > Perhaps you could make a New Year’s resolution to become a nicer group > > member. To mature a little. To be more supportive of your fellow > SPers. > > Yeah, nice dream. > > I have a hard time seeing you as a first born…you’re like a bratty > > little brother that I wish would get lost. > > Have a nice day! > > -Liz Q. > > Sent via Deja.com > > http://www.deja.com/ > Liz,  i don’t know why you have decided to turn on me. i assume this is > some form of scapegoating because things are not going well in your > real life. this is only the internet, so it means zero to me. > i am just curious about the youngest child personality. it is a > personality type i don’t even begin to understand. we all have > specialized roles of perhaps equal importance. you should not feel > worthless because you are the youngest. i feel badly that i have > laid open the inner workings of your psyche for all to see. i was > just poking around . I did not think I would get so close to revealing > the real you. i guess "bratty" is the worst insult you can think of, > being the baby. > i don’t plan to live much longer, so I hope you can refrain from > dehumanizing me in the future. try being kind to me. give me some > slack. > Cliff

Cliff i am appaled. A strong young(ish) man like you trawling for insincere sympathy? Pull yourself together man. You can pull yourself out. It is slow but you can do it. We all can. there’s just too much baggage in the way. Toss the baggage and you will soar. If only it were easier…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <92e4hi$9k…@nnrp1.deja.com>, liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <92c3o7$nl…@nnrp1.deja.com>, >   concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <92c1dq$m5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it > says > > > more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So please, > > > feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. > > > -Liz Q. > > no, i just have noticed that the youngest child types sometimes say > very > > hurtful things out of the blue. they don’t seem to have the restraint > > that normal people have. it could be a coincidence, but i’ve only had > > people in the workplace say rude things to me about 5 times and it > > has always been the youngest child who shot off their mouth without > > thinking. i think the youngest child type tend to be bullies. i’m > > really afraid of the youngest child in some ways. i really never > > know what to expect from you.  i alway prepare for an unpleasant > > surprise when i read your posts because i never know if you are going > to > > suddenly turn vicious. > Perhaps you need to join a moderated newsgroup. Ah…but then, you’d > get kicked out, wouldn’t you, for your bad behavior? > A second idea…don’t read my posts. Filter me out! > > if there was some predictability to it , it would > > not be so unnerving. > Here’s how you can predict it, Cliff. When you are an asshole, I > respond accordingly. > > i’m not afraid of morey because i understand why > > he says mean stuff. i can pretty much predict with 100% accuracy what > > he will say or think or feel in a given situation. > Yeah, I can pretty much predict Troll behavior as well. For instance, > I’ll bet you keep whining as you are now. Whenever anyone stands up to > you, at first you try to beat them down, and if you’re unsuccessful, > you complain. > > you are sort of like > > a loose cannon. maybe you could use this feedback to formulate a new > > years resolution of some sort. i hope you don’t think i’m joking > > because this is one of the rare occasions when i’m serious. > I take you very seriously, Cliff. I just don’t CARE what you think > because of your bratty behavior. You see, there’s a difference. > You’re just upset because I won’t take your crap. Get over it. > Perhaps you could make a New Year’s resolution to become a nicer group > member. To mature a little. To be more supportive of your fellow SPers. > Yeah, nice dream. > I have a hard time seeing you as a first born…you’re like a bratty > little brother that I wish would get lost. > Have a nice day! > -Liz Q.

I take my previuous cooments back. You got some good punches in there Liz. Way to go.

Response:

In article <92e4hi$9k…@nnrp1.deja.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <92c3o7$nl…@nnrp1.deja.com>, >   concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <92c1dq$m5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it > says > > > more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So please, > > > feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. > > > -Liz Q. > > no, i just have noticed that the youngest child types sometimes say > very > > hurtful things out of the blue. they don’t seem to have the restraint > > that normal people have. it could be a coincidence, but i’ve only had > > people in the workplace say rude things to me about 5 times and it > > has always been the youngest child who shot off their mouth without > > thinking. i think the youngest child type tend to be bullies. i’m > > really afraid of the youngest child in some ways. i really never > > know what to expect from you.  i alway prepare for an unpleasant > > surprise when i read your posts because i never know if you are going > to > > suddenly turn vicious. > Perhaps you need to join a moderated newsgroup. Ah…but then, you’d > get kicked out, wouldn’t you, for your bad behavior? > A second idea…don’t read my posts. Filter me out! > > if there was some predictability to it , it would > > not be so unnerving. > Here’s how you can predict it, Cliff. When you are an asshole, I > respond accordingly. > > i’m not afraid of morey because i understand why > > he says mean stuff. i can pretty much predict with 100% accuracy what > > he will say or think or feel in a given situation. > Yeah, I can pretty much predict Troll behavior as well. For instance, > I’ll bet you keep whining as you are now. Whenever anyone stands up to > you, at first you try to beat them down, and if you’re unsuccessful, > you complain. > > you are sort of like > > a loose cannon. maybe you could use this feedback to formulate a new > > years resolution of some sort. i hope you don’t think i’m joking > > because this is one of the rare occasions when i’m serious. > I take you very seriously, Cliff. I just don’t CARE what you think > because of your bratty behavior. You see, there’s a difference. > You’re just upset because I won’t take your crap. Get over it. > Perhaps you could make a New Year’s resolution to become a nicer group > member. To mature a little. To be more supportive of your fellow SPers. > Yeah, nice dream. > I have a hard time seeing you as a first born…you’re like a bratty > little brother that I wish would get lost. > Have a nice day! > -Liz Q. > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

Liz,  i don’t know why you have decided to turn on me. i assume this is some form of scapegoating because things are not going well in your real life. this is only the internet, so it means zero to me. i am just curious about the youngest child personality. it is a personality type i don’t even begin to understand. we all have specialized roles of perhaps equal importance. you should not feel worthless because you are the youngest. i feel badly that i have laid open the inner workings of your psyche for all to see. i was just poking around . I did not think I would get so close to revealing the real you. i guess "bratty" is the worst insult you can think of, being the baby. i don’t plan to live much longer, so I hope you can refrain from dehumanizing me in the future. try being kind to me. give me some slack. Cliff Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <92c1dq$m5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it says > more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So please, > feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. > -Liz Q.

Dear Liz…Cliff is always (mostly) on top. the only girl (and only person) that thrashed cliff so far was Siri (Affinity).

Response:

In article <92c3o7$nl…@nnrp1.deja.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <92c1dq$m5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it says > > more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So please, > > feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. > > -Liz Q. > no, i just have noticed that the youngest child types sometimes say very > hurtful things out of the blue. they don’t seem to have the restraint > that normal people have. it could be a coincidence, but i’ve only had > people in the workplace say rude things to me about 5 times and it > has always been the youngest child who shot off their mouth without > thinking. i think the youngest child type tend to be bullies. i’m > really afraid of the youngest child in some ways. i really never > know what to expect from you.  i alway prepare for an unpleasant > surprise when i read your posts because i never know if you are going to > suddenly turn vicious.

Perhaps you need to join a moderated newsgroup. Ah…but then, you’d get kicked out, wouldn’t you, for your bad behavior? A second idea…don’t read my posts. Filter me out! > if there was some predictability to it , it would > not be so unnerving.

Here’s how you can predict it, Cliff. When you are an asshole, I respond accordingly. > i’m not afraid of morey because i understand why > he says mean stuff. i can pretty much predict with 100% accuracy what > he will say or think or feel in a given situation.

Yeah, I can pretty much predict Troll behavior as well. For instance, I’ll bet you keep whining as you are now. Whenever anyone stands up to you, at first you try to beat them down, and if you’re unsuccessful, you complain. > you are sort of like > a loose cannon. maybe you could use this feedback to formulate a new > years resolution of some sort. i hope you don’t think i’m joking > because this is one of the rare occasions when i’m serious.

I take you very seriously, Cliff. I just don’t CARE what you think because of your bratty behavior. You see, there’s a difference. You’re just upset because I won’t take your crap. Get over it. Perhaps you could make a New Year’s resolution to become a nicer group member. To mature a little. To be more supportive of your fellow SPers. Yeah, nice dream. I have a hard time seeing you as a first born…you’re like a bratty little brother that I wish would get lost. Have a nice day! -Liz Q. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <92c1dq$m5…@nnrp1.deja.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <92bfml$9m…@nnrp1.deja.com>, >   concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <92b9i3$58…@nnrp1.deja.com>, > >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > > In article <20001226163415.06091.00002…@ng-ff1.aol.com>, > > >   mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: > > > > McD’s every day is a wonderful diet. You can’t keep it down ; ) > > > > Pam > > > LOL! Yes, and it explains SO MUCH about his behavior, doesn’t it? > > > -Liz Q. > > I know you deny having the youngest child personality, but you have > > a way of snapping at people that is classic youngest child behavior. > > Your attitude towards people turns on a dime. When you turned on > > Morey, i seriously felt sorry for him. I felt embarrassed that you > > could be so oblivious to someones feelings. You are the type of person > > who farts in a public place and is not  embarrassed. You don’t seem > > to feel shame, so I guess you are not sensitive to causing others loss > > of face. They say my best match would be the youngest child because > i’m > > the eldest child. It will never happen. > Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it says > more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So please, > feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. > -Liz Q.

no, i just have noticed that the youngest child types sometimes say very hurtful things out of the blue. they don’t seem to have the restraint that normal people have. it could be a coincidence, but i’ve only had people in the workplace say rude things to me about 5 times and it has always been the youngest child who shot off their mouth without thinking. i think the youngest child type tend to be bullies. i’m really afraid of the youngest child in some ways. i really never know what to expect from you.  i alway prepare for an unpleasant surprise when i read your posts because i never know if you are going to suddenly turn vicious. if there was some predictability to it , it would not be so unnerving. i’m not afraid of morey because i understand why he says mean stuff. i can pretty much predict with 100% accuracy what he will say or think or feel in a given situation. you are sort of like a loose cannon. maybe you could use this feedback to formulate a new years resolution of some sort. i hope you don’t think i’m joking because this is one of the rare occasions when i’m serious. > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <Wcc26.110081$Ww.2058…@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>,   "Seventh Element" <seventh_elem…@hotmail.com.spam> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I know you deny having the youngest child personality, but you have > > a way of snapping at people that is classic youngest child behavior. > > Your attitude towards people turns on a dime. When you turned on > > Morey, i seriously felt sorry for him. I felt embarrassed that you > > could be so oblivious to someones feelings. You are the type of person > > who farts in a public place and is not  embarrassed. You don’t seem > > to feel shame, so I guess you are not sensitive to causing others loss > > of face. They say my best match would be the youngest child because i’m > > the eldest child. It will never happen. > My God, you’re so smart! Please tell us what your IQ is. Give us exact data!

I graduated with an honours degree in accounting from university. conservatively, my IQ is around 210. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <92bfml$9m…@nnrp1.deja.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <92b9i3$58…@nnrp1.deja.com>, >   liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <20001226163415.06091.00002…@ng-ff1.aol.com>, > >   mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: > > > McD’s every day is a wonderful diet. You can’t keep it down ; ) > > > Pam > > LOL! Yes, and it explains SO MUCH about his behavior, doesn’t it? > > -Liz Q. > I know you deny having the youngest child personality, but you have > a way of snapping at people that is classic youngest child behavior. > Your attitude towards people turns on a dime. When you turned on > Morey, i seriously felt sorry for him. I felt embarrassed that you > could be so oblivious to someones feelings. You are the type of person > who farts in a public place and is not  embarrassed. You don’t seem > to feel shame, so I guess you are not sensitive to causing others loss > of face. They say my best match would be the youngest child because i’m > the eldest child. It will never happen.

Cliff, your psycho-babble is truely amusing. Especially since it says more about the inner you than it does about anyone else. So please, feel free to enlighten us more about who Cliff really is. -Liz Q. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

>From: concept…@my-deja.com >Pam is jealous because i can eat at McDonalds everyday and not get fat. >i’m going to pig out today. i’ll be thinking of you on your starvation >diet.

McD’s every day is a wonderful diet. You can’t keep it down ; ) Pam

Response:

In article <20001226163415.06091.00002…@ng-ff1.aol.com>,   mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: > >From: concept…@my-deja.com > >Pam is jealous because i can eat at McDonalds everyday and not get fat. > >i’m going to pig out today. i’ll be thinking of you on your starvation > >diet. > McD’s every day is a wonderful diet. You can’t keep it down ; ) > Pam

LOL! Yes, and it explains SO MUCH about his behavior, doesn’t it? -Liz Q. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <92b9i3$58…@nnrp1.deja.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  liz_…@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <20001226163415.06091.00002…@ng-ff1.aol.com>, >   mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: > > >From: concept…@my-deja.com > > >Pam is jealous because i can eat at McDonalds everyday and not get fat. > > >i’m going to pig out today. i’ll be thinking of you on your starvation > > >diet. > > McD’s every day is a wonderful diet. You can’t keep it down ; ) > > Pam > LOL! Yes, and it explains SO MUCH about his behavior, doesn’t it? > -Liz Q.

I know you deny having the youngest child personality, but you have a way of snapping at people that is classic youngest child behavior. Your attitude towards people turns on a dime. When you turned on Morey, i seriously felt sorry for him. I felt embarrassed that you could be so oblivious to someones feelings. You are the type of person who farts in a public place and is not  embarrassed. You don’t seem to feel shame, so I guess you are not sensitive to causing others loss of face. They say my best match would be the youngest child because i’m the eldest child. It will never happen. > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

> I know you deny having the youngest child personality, but you have > a way of snapping at people that is classic youngest child behavior. > Your attitude towards people turns on a dime. When you turned on > Morey, i seriously felt sorry for him. I felt embarrassed that you > could be so oblivious to someones feelings. You are the type of person > who farts in a public place and is not  embarrassed. You don’t seem > to feel shame, so I guess you are not sensitive to causing others loss > of face. They say my best match would be the youngest child because i’m > the eldest child. It will never happen.

My God, you’re so smart! Please tell us what your IQ is. Give us exact data!

Response:

Christmas is brutal. What the fuck am I supposed to eat? They don’t close on any other day of the year. I really must be addicted to junk food. I’m already having withdrawl. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

>From: concept…@my-deja.com >Christmas is brutal. What the fuck am I supposed to eat? They don’t >close on any other day of the year. I really must be addicted to junk >food. I’m already having withdrawl.

Mazzio’s Pizza, Domino’s Pizza, and Burger king are open here.  You should have planned ahead, Cliff Pam

Response:

concept…@my-deja.com wrote in <926um9$77…@nnrp1.deja.com>: >Christmas is brutal. What the fuck am I supposed to eat? They don’t >close on any other day of the year. I really must be addicted to junk >food. I’m already having withdrawl. >Sent via Deja.com >http://www.deja.com/

Try eating some cardboard boxes. It’ll taste just like Mcdonalds. Fido.

Response:

In article <90162CBF1Fidopoundinh…@209.198.222.11>,   F…@pound.in.hell wrote: > concept…@my-deja.com wrote in <926um9$77…@nnrp1.deja.com>: > >Christmas is brutal. What the fuck am I supposed to eat? They don’t > >close on any other day of the year. I really must be addicted to junk > >food. I’m already having withdrawl. > >Sent via Deja.com > >http://www.deja.com/ > Try eating some cardboard boxes. It’ll taste just like Mcdonalds.

nice christmas sentiment. truth is, most so-called healthy food tastes like cardboard. McD’s food is always  delicious. i almost get high off the sugar and caffeine. > Fido.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

>From: concept…@my-deja.com >nice christmas sentiment. truth is, most so-called healthy food tastes >like cardboard. McD’s food is always  delicious. i almost get high off >the sugar and caffeine.

Those foods are not good for you. They could be causing your SP. Stop eating them now. Grachman, The

Response:

In article <20001226040543.07146.00000…@ng-md1.aol.com>,   grac…@aol.comOLAJUWON (Grachman W. Olajuwon) wrote: > >From: concept…@my-deja.com > >nice christmas sentiment. truth is, most so-called healthy food tastes > >like cardboard. McD’s food is always  delicious. i almost get high off > >the sugar and caffeine. > Those foods are not good for you. They could be causing your SP. Stop eating > them now. > Grachman, The

ok, mom. seriously, i really enjoy junk food. it improves my quality of life. i don’t drink or smoke so I’m allowed one vice. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <926um9$77…@nnrp1.deja.com>, concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > Christmas is brutal. What the fuck am I supposed to eat? They don’t > close on any other day of the year. I really must be addicted to junk > food. I’m already having withdrawl.

You got problems buddy if you can’t think of a way to get anything to eat on x-mas but Rotten Ronnies. You are sick and need help. Preferably in the form of a good meal.

Response:

In article <90162CBF1Fidopoundinh…@209.198.222.11>, F…@pound.in.hell wrote: > concept…@my-deja.com wrote in <926um9$77…@nnrp1.deja.com>: > >Christmas is brutal. What the fuck am I supposed to eat? They don’t > >close on any other day of the year. I really must be addicted to junk > >food. I’m already having withdrawl. > >Sent via Deja.com > >http://www.deja.com/ > Try eating some cardboard boxes. It’ll taste just like Mcdonalds. > Fido.

Good one! The fucked up thing is….I still eat at McDonalds about three times a month. It’s a kind of obsessive compulsive thing. LoL! My (very, *very* picky) cat will not touch anything besides her regular combo of Friskies (can) and Science Diet (dry). This is a cat who is so addicted to her routines she that will go without food or water for 24 hours before drinking out of a new water bowl or trying new food…but she will eat McDonalds stuff in a flash. My roomate’s cat is a big fan also. What *do* they put in that stuff…cocaine and catnip? LoL!

Response:

Cardboard with Ketchup Fido. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -concept…@my-deja.com wrote: > nice christmas sentiment. truth is, most so-called healthy food tastes > like cardboard. McD’s food is always  delicious. i almost get high off > the sugar and caffeine. > > Fido. > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

Response:

>From: all too human human_all_too_hu…@hotmail.com >You got problems buddy if you can’t think of a way to get anything to >eat on x-mas but Rotten Ronnies. You are sick and need help. Preferably >in the form of a good meal.

LoL…Rooten Ronnies!  I never heard that one before.  Personally, I’d rather eat cardboard than McD’s. Pam

Response:

In article <20001226124315.07641.00006…@ng-fy1.aol.com>,   mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: > >From: all too human human_all_too_hu…@hotmail.com > >You got problems buddy if you can’t think of a way to get anything to > >eat on x-mas but Rotten Ronnies. You are sick and need help. Preferably > >in the form of a good meal. > LoL…Rooten Ronnies!  I never heard that one before.  Personally, I’d rather > eat cardboard than McD’s. > Pam

Pam is jealous because i can eat at McDonalds everyday and not get fat. i’m going to pig out today. i’ll be thinking of you on your starvation diet. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

Question:

HOTEarth.NET also shows how humans are making global warming worse by pumping millions of pounds of greenhouse gases into the air and trapping more of the sun’s heat. The good news is that www.HOTEARTH.net shows visitors how they can do simple things to help fix this problem–like using public transportation more often and replacing old light bulbs with cost-saving fluorescent ones.

Chris: I saw a NOVA with about the same very alarming conclusions. I think the problem is that when you make the conclusion the globe is warming at an advanced rate and has already made life for humans less hospitable – it is information received like a wet blanket. Wunnaful, wannaful Rose Perot would say. The band plays on And those WWII veterans dancing to welk assuring their viewpoints to their dying breathe in the generations that would release their wealth Gonna take some serious coastal flooding. Unfortunately I think that by that time the ability to reverse the trend, according to what I heard from the scientists reporting from the pole, as scientists do, very conservatively, it will likely be too late. It seems like we only get a theory this time, backed by science, and its arrives at an age where scientists are recently scorned and impulsivity replaces science. Big problem. I rent by the shore, but I’m buying in the mountains. Rick D

Response:

To learn more about the connection between global warming and asthma, check out www.HotEart.NET: Medical research is gradually piecing together the complex relationship between various sources of environmental pollution and their effects on human health. Now it is becoming clear that global warming may be behind some of the most disturbing developments in public health in recent times, namely the spread of insect-borne diseases and the rise in the incidence of asthma.  St. Louis encephalitis has infected an alarming number of people this fall, and now, for the first time in medical history, West Nile fever, previously unheard of in the U.S., has infected several people in New York and Connecticut. In many ways, however, asthma poses a far more serious and insidious danger to public health.  Over the past 25 years, we have seen an overwhelming statistical rise in the number of cases in the U.S. –since 1980 the number of asthma suffers has risen from 6.7 million to 13.8 million in 1994, a more than 60% increase –currently an estimated 4.8 million children, 7% of children under the age of 18, suffer from asthma –over 5,000 people died from asthma in 1995 alone –between 1985 and 1995 there was a 45.3% increase in the number of asthma deaths –asthma is the #1 cause of school absences from chronic conditions, accounting for an average of 7.3 missed school days annually per victim Now we know that during hot summer days, ozone from fossil fuels mixes with other gases and sunlight in the lower atmosphere to make smog. Ozone is a highly reactive gas and can destroy organic matter–including human lung and airway tissue–by burning through the walls of cells. Scientists know that high concentrations of smog, which usually occur on warm days with high levels of air pollution, can trigger asthma attacks, bronchitis, and other respiratory ailments. We believe that health care providers need to be aware of the complex relationship between, global warming, air pollution, and asthma. That’s why we feel you should be familiar with the problem of global warming and its effects on human health. Recently, the National Environmental Trust, Union of Concerned Scientists, and Physicians for Social Responsibility launched a multi- million dollar national educational campaign to raise awareness of the problem of global warming and to give people a way to register their concerns with elected officials.  A major element of this campaign is a powerful new website at http://www.hotearth.net. I urge you to visit it and see for yourself why the growing problem of global warming threatens the health of so many people and why you, too, need to take a hard look at the facts and the need for action. HOTEarth.NET contains basic information: –the 1990s were the hottest in recorded history –sea levels are rising and flooding coastal areas, including many of the world’s island nations –warmer temperatures are extending the range of many tropical diseases –air pollution, worsened by global warming, may play a significant role in the alarming rise in the incidence of asthma among children. HOTEarth.NET also shows how humans are making global warming worse by pumping millions of pounds of greenhouse gases into the air and trapping more of the sun’s heat. The good news is that www.HOTEARTH.net shows visitors how they can do simple things to help fix this problem–like using public transportation more often and replacing old light bulbs with cost-saving fluorescent ones. HOTEARTH.net also enables visitors to send e-mails and faxes automatically to elected officials.  This feature let’s people tell them that they need to take action on global warming before it’s too late. If you know of patients or others who have asthma, please forward this message to them and anyone else in the field of public health.  Let’s work together to help the next generation get a healthy start on life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Thanks everyone for the responses to my previous post. you were all supportive and i needed that. But on to my next problem. My 2 boys well really 3 but it is the youngest 2 i worry about the most, have adhd and asthma does anyone know if there is any connection between them. i know the obvious is that when they are so hyper they can have an asthma attack but is it common for children with adhd to have asthma or vice versa. Lots of anecdotal evidence connecting allergies and ADHD.  There *may* have been a study on the subject (vague recollection). What is certain, however, is that allergies make ADHD harder to live with.  Sinus congestion, for instance, can make reduce the concentration span of even the most thoroughly neurotypical to a matter of seconds.  In an ADHDer it’s likely to make for a total ditz-out.  As a result, the *diagnosis* rate for ADHDers with comorbid allergies is almost certainly greater than for those w/o allergies. — | Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable       | | e-mail address.  Of course, there isn’t REALLY a lumber cartel.    | | There isn’t really a tooth fairy, but whois toothfairy.com works.  |

Before you buy.

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Hi Thanks everyone for the responses to my previous post. you were all supportive and i needed that. But on to my next problem. My 2 boys well really 3 but it is the youngest 2 i worry about the most, have adhd and asthma does anyone know if there is any connection between them. i know the obvious is that when they are so hyper they can have an asthma attack but is it common for children with adhd to have asthma or vice versa.

Lots of anecdotal evidence connecting allergies and ADHD.  There *may* have been a study on the subject (vague recollection). What is certain, however, is that allergies make ADHD harder to live with.  Sinus congestion, for instance, can make reduce the concentration span of even the most thoroughly neurotypical to a matter of seconds.  In an ADHDer it’s likely to make for a total ditz-out.  As a result, the *diagnosis* rate for ADHDers with comorbid allergies is almost certainly greater than for those w/o allergies. — | Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable       | | e-mail address.  Of course, there isn’t REALLY a lumber cartel.    | | There isn’t really a tooth fairy, but whois toothfairy.com works.  |

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Question:

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX WEDS, SEPTEMBER 29, 1999 21:55:25 ET XXXXX TED TURNER: ‘I AM A SOCIALIST AT HEART’ The nation’s leading private land owner and top media power player declared on Wednesday that he is really a socialist! CABLE NEWS NETWORK founder Ted Turner, one of the world’s richest men, told a gathering in Shanghai that he is "a socialist at heart" who is concerned that "Internet guys have gotten so rich so fast." Addressing TIME WARNER’s Global Forum, Turner blasted ORACLE CORP’s chairman Larry Ellison for his yachts. "I’d rather use money for the benefit of mankind rather than spend it selfishly," Turner, owner of yachts, told the gathering of over 500 Chinese and international entrepreneurs. — David (Dragon) Fiedler Learn all about recording, mixing, and making your own music CDs, MP3s, and tapes at http://homerecording.com Get your questions answered on our BBS at http://homerecording.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

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TED TURNER: ‘I AM A SOCIALIST AT HEART’

Such honesty is refreshing. And this from a formerly fairly conservative entreprenuer that got all screwed up in Hanoi Jane’s web of socialist nonsense. Now if all the other socialists would just come clean, such as: Slick Willy: "I am a liar and a socialist at heart, heh heh. I have never done a darn thing except spend taxpayers money. Heh heh. Please, y’all, send me some new flannel briefs to keep my feet warm this winter." Al Gore: "I am basically spoiled and stupid at heart. I know nothing about the real challenges facing most people. I was born with a silver foot in my mouth." Queen Hillary: "Power is my only reason to live. POWER! POWER! I gotta have power, even if it means putting up with an idiot like Bill!" …oh yeah, today I pick up my trailer boat from the shop. (This is an ON topic post.) FishWishr Dale Gillespie boatin’ & fishin’ the Californiadelta(.org)

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TED is an American hero with his one billion dollar gift. Ditto Bill Gates and others. TED may be blasting Ellison because he is not giving to charities the amounts that Ted believes he should. Ted is am amusing speaker and Jane is always laughing at his off the cuff remarks. Are you sure that TED owns yachts? They may be owned by a corporation, trust or charity??    

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TED is an American hero with his one billion dollar gift.

On another note, what do you think about naming sports teams after Native Americans? Ted is am amusing speaker and Jane is always laughing at his off the cuff remarks.

Sounds like you pal around with them on a regular basis. Are you sure that TED owns yachts?

Check his portfolio, any Sea Pro stock? They may be owned by a corporation, trust or charity??    

If this were China, or America with Al Gore as prez, he could be arrested by thought police, and charged with a "hate crime".

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On another note, what do you think about naming sports teams after Native Americans?

What’s your point? Rich Stern

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX WEDS, SEPTEMBER 29, 1999 21:55:25 ET XXXXX TED TURNER: ‘I AM A SOCIALIST AT HEART’ The nation’s leading private land owner and top media power player declared on Wednesday that he is really a socialist! CABLE NEWS NETWORK founder Ted Turner, one of the world’s richest men, told a gathering in Shanghai that he is "a socialist at heart" who is concerned that "Internet guys have gotten so rich so fast." Addressing TIME WARNER’s Global Forum, Turner blasted ORACLE CORP’s chairman Larry Ellison for his yachts. "I’d rather use money for the benefit of mankind rather than spend it selfishly," Turner, owner of yachts, told the gathering of over 500 Chinese and international entrepreneurs. — David (Dragon) Fiedler Learn all about recording, mixing, and making your own music CDs, MP3s, and tapes at http://homerecording.com Get your questions answered on our BBS at http://homerecording.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi Wow!!  This really enlightened me.  For years I have assumed he was a

Leo! Before you buy.

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Sounds like you pal around with them on a regular basis.

Ted and I are not close pals. We are the same age. Ted has more money. In person he is just one of the guys.    

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TED is an American hero with his one billion dollar gift.

I hate to enter this discussion, but the "donation" is a charitable remainder trust (TAX DODGE) that gives approx $1B interest to the UN-He gets to keep the principal and still gets all the brownie points.Ain’t America GREAT?????  Ditto Bill Gates and others. TED may be blasting Ellison because he is not giving to charities the amounts that Ted believes he should. Ted is am amusing speaker and Jane is always laughing at his off the cuff remarks. Are you sure that TED owns yachts? They may be owned by a corporation, trust or charity??

TED owns all sorts of CRAP-mansions, ranches, yachts-all the RICH GUY stuff! As soon as he gets serious about this Socialist stuff I am ready to take my share of his stuff. I’ll know he’s for real when he and Jane are living in a 3 bedroom rambler and driving a nice Chevy Cavalier to work. Ted

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I hate to enter this discussion, but the "donation" is a charitable remainder trust (TAX DODGE) that gives approx $1B interest to the UN-He gets to keep the principal and still gets all the brownie points.Ain’t America GREAT?????

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth!  OK, so the UN only gets $75/million a year in perpetuity while Ted gets a tax break on money he earned by being a smart businessman and a big risk taker. By the way, it say very clearly on the instruction book when you fill out your tax form, something like:  "You are entitled to every deduction that applies to you."  Never seen the word "dodge" in one of those books.  I think Ted is entitled to the deduction just as you or I are. Rich Stern

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hate to enter this discussion, but the "donation" is a charitable remainder trust (TAX DODGE) that gives approx $1B interest to the UN-He gets to keep the principal and still gets all the brownie points.Ain’t America GREAT????? Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth!  OK, so the UN only gets $75/million a year in perpetuity while Ted gets a tax break on money he earned by being a smart businessman and a big risk taker. By the way, it say very clearly on the instruction book when you fill out your tax form, something like:  "You are entitled to every deduction that applies to you."  Never seen the word "dodge" in one of those books.  I think Ted is entitled to the deduction just as you or I are.

Such is true, but I think the point here is that he made a smart business move, and turned it into a media event. He didn’t do what he did out of the goodness of his heart first, he did it as a means of defering taxes. There is a difference. Real charity is when someone gives their last dollar to another, because they need it even more. Dave

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Real charity is when someone gives their last dollar to another, because they

need it even more. Real charity is not created by tax loopholes or the brute force of government taking from you and I under threat of prison and then giving it to another that did not earn it. Real charity is hard to come by when so much is stolen by government for it’s grand delusions of "charity". Taxation has become government’s own weapon of choice to force us to live our lives according to the whims of whoever happens to be in power. What ever happened to the "land of the free"? FishWishr Dale Gillespie boatin’ & fishin’ the Californiadelta(.org)

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I believe his decision was made in an instant. He was told that his profit was xyz and he immediately said "One billion to charity" I believe it was on a flight back from abroad and was totally unexpected by Jane and his accountants.

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Yea Ted gave the money out of the goodness in his heart. Sure. He should keep his big mouth shut about anybody else and what they do with their money! He should stay there!

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I think charitable remainder trusts work the other way round. i.e. the donor gets the interest while alive and upon death the priciple goes to the designated charity.

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If you understand that "Socialism" (& its cousin Communism) abhore private property rights, you’ll understand why Socialists are basically pirates. Pirates dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by force of arms. Socialists dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by taxation (supported by force of arms). Pirates often kill those who dare defend their property. Socialists (& Communists) often kill those who dare defend their property. And if you didn’t know, the basis of ALL LAW is the protection of property rights. When there are no private property rights there is no law – only the dictates of the "Fearless Leader" – the Chief Pirate who enjoys the fruits of YOUR labor. Of course, despite the cold war propaganda, all parties in the "war" were Socialists… USSR, PRC, GB, USA, CAN, you name it, it’s probably Socialist. [Islamic Fundamentalist countries excepted] What? You think "Social Security" isn’t Socialism? What? You didn’t know that the world’s Socialist InSecurity funds are "totalized" with international bankers, under a treaty made in 1934? Because of the "Great Depression," the world’s "Free Democracies"" went bankrupt. That’s why the species backed currencies disappeared . . . No matter what TT does or says, or any other public figure, you have to ask yourself the question: "Are these guys pirates or protectors of private property?" It’s easy to figure out who is hoisting the Jolly Roger. — Jeff Ganaposki http://www.freeyellow.com/members/living-word http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you understand that "Socialism" (& its cousin Communism) abhore private property rights, you’ll understand why Socialists are basically pirates. Pirates dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by force of arms. Socialists dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by taxation (supported by force of arms). Pirates often kill those who dare defend their property. Socialists (& Communists) often kill those who dare defend their property. And if you didn’t know, the basis of ALL LAW is the protection of property rights. When there are no private property rights there is no law – only the dictates of the "Fearless Leader" – the Chief Pirate who enjoys the fruits of YOUR labor.

So, you are a student of corporate law and mores, eh? — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - I’m a poor lonesome point, and a long way from home

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you understand that "Socialism" (& its cousin Communism) abhore private property rights, you’ll understand why Socialists are basically pirates. Pirates dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by force of arms. Socialists dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by taxation (supported by force of arms). Pirates often kill those who dare defend their property. Socialists (& Communists) often kill those who dare defend their property. And if you didn’t know, the basis of ALL LAW is the protection of property rights. When there are no private property rights there is no law – only the dictates of the "Fearless Leader" – the Chief Pirate who enjoys the fruits of YOUR labor. So, you are a student of corporate law and mores, eh? — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – -

Hmmm…. Since corporations are entities "at law," formed to duck the Biblical requirement to pay 120% restitution -and- engage in usury, I would not put the words: "corporate" and "law and mores" in the same sentence If anything, corporations are abominations. Sigh… now I am glad I did sell my shares of IBM "LAW" is not "Morality" and morality is not law. Law is the protection of property rights. Morality is policy and customs mutually agreed upon. For example, Biblical "Adultery" is a breach of contract and mere policy when a higher property right claim is made. There is one section that forbids a woman to marry her husband’s brother, and calls it adultery. In another section, if a man dies without children, it is the DUTY of the living brother to marry the widow and sire children to inherit in the dead brother’s name! So much for "absolutes." — Jeff Ganaposki http://www.freeyellow.com/members/living-word http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics/index.html

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Hmmm…. Since corporations are entities "at law," formed to duck the Biblical requirement to pay 120% restitution -and- engage in usury, I would not put the words: "corporate" and "law and mores" in the same sentence

Uff da.  One more kook…..   Are you from California????  If anything, corporations are abominations. Sigh… now I am glad I did sell my shares of IBM

I’m sure the CEO of IBM is still talking about your sale….. "LAW" is not "Morality" and morality is not law. Law is the protection of property rights. Morality is policy and customs mutually agreed upon.

Sure.  Watch this guy, he’s building up to sumpthin….. For example, Biblical "Adultery" is a breach of contract and mere policy when a higher property right claim is made.

Did you catch that string: Sex on Boats? There is one section that forbids a woman to marry her husband’s brother, and calls it adultery.

Did you know that those other cultists, the Green Weenies of the Bilgewater Network take turns in gaining carnal knowledge of their cult leader, Russel Long? In another section, if a man dies without children, it is the DUTY of the living brother to marry the widow and sire children to inherit in the dead brother’s name!

I bet the Green Weenies are gonna kill file you…. So much for "absolutes."

Hey Harry……   wanna put a plastic tarp over this jerk? Jeff Ganaposki

– Paul " Catch on fire with enthusiasm and people will come for miles to watch you burn."  - John Wesley

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Sheesh, I was hoping for a more virulent rebuttal… Oh well. One hopes for more than "praise" from the opposition. Hmmm…. Since corporations are entities "at law," formed to duck the Biblical requirement to pay 120% restitution -and- engage in usury, I would not put the words: "corporate" and "law and mores" in the same sentence Uff da.  One more kook…..   Are you from California????

Does your definition of "kook" mean one who doesn’t agree with your world view?I can sympathize. But I can refer you to the appropriate legal and biblical cites that support my claims. If that is not rational thought, then "your law" is irrational.  If anything, corporations are abominations. Sigh… now I am glad I did sell my shares of IBM I’m sure the CEO of IBM is still talking about your sale…..

You missed the smiley face (irony). And what if I am right? By your opinion, I’m "obviously" wrong. Why not burst my bubble with any FACTS? Go ahead – make my day "LAW" is not "Morality" and morality is not law. Law is the protection of property rights. Morality is policy and customs mutually agreed upon. Sure.  Watch this guy, he’s building up to sumpthin…..

I hope so. Glad you caught that… For example, Biblical "Adultery" is a breach of contract and mere policy when a higher property right claim is made. Did you catch that string: Sex on Boats?

Are you refering to gender or copulation? There is one section that forbids a woman to marry her husband’s brother, and calls it adultery. Did you know that those other cultists, the Green Weenies of the Bilgewater Network take turns in gaining carnal knowledge of their cult leader, Russel Long? In another section, if a man dies without children, it is the DUTY of the living brother to marry the widow and sire children to inherit in the dead brother’s name! I bet the Green Weenies are gonna kill file you….

What you failed to "read between the lines" is that the current "teachings" of adultery carefully omit the hard to refute FACTS that the Bible doesn’t agree with the modern interpretation of Adultery (sexual relations between parties not married to each other). And I do not mean that sexual intercourse is forbidden – quite the contrary – that "unlawful carnal knowledge" is restricted to very limited cases: A) with non-consenting parties (Rape) or B) those without the standing to choose (Minors and incapacitated) or C) those who are chattels or wards of another, and no permission was granted (Rape).Reiterating: Adultery was breach of a contract (the exchange of vows). Marriage created a new legal entity that could pass on property rights to the next generation. It is obvious that a child can inherit from the mother, but which father? Absent a contract, a child (bastard) cannot inherit the father’s property. Fornication was a breach of property rights in one or both parties and was covered in Category C – thus a "free man" and "free woman" cannot commit fornication nor adultery. So when you re-read the Biblical teachings, you’ll find evidence that Abraham sired a child outside of the marriage and wasn’t condemned, and King David had wives AND concubines and wasn’t condemned. So where’s the Biblical base for all the sexual repression? So much for "absolutes." Hey Harry……   wanna put a plastic tarp over this jerk?

Why would you want to preserve me And anyway, I started this with a claim that Socialists are pirates. Did you find that "kooky," too? — Jeff Ganaposki http://www.freeyellow.com/members/living-word http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you understand that "Socialism" (& its cousin Communism) abhore private property rights, you’ll understand why Socialists are basically pirates. Pirates dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by force of arms. Socialists dispossess those that produce and transport goods and services, by taxation (supported by force of arms). Pirates often kill those who dare defend their property. Socialists (& Communists) often kill those who dare defend their property. And if you didn’t know, the basis of ALL LAW is the protection of property rights. When there are no private property rights there is no law – only the dictates of the "Fearless Leader" – the Chief Pirate who enjoys the fruits of YOUR labor. So, you are a student of corporate law and mores, eh? — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Hmmm…. Since corporations are entities "at law," formed to duck the Biblical requirement to pay 120% restitution -and- engage in usury, I would not put the words: "corporate" and "law and mores" in the same sentence If anything, corporations are abominations. Sigh… now I am glad I did sell my shares of IBM "LAW" is not "Morality" and morality is not law. Law is the protection of property rights. Morality is policy and customs mutually agreed upon. For example, Biblical "Adultery" is a breach of contract and mere policy when a higher property right claim is made. There is one section that forbids a woman to marry her husband’s brother, and calls it adultery. In another section, if a man dies without children, it is the DUTY of the living brother to marry the widow and sire children to inherit in the dead brother’s name! So much for "absolutes." — Jeff Ganaposki http://www.freeyellow.com/members/living-word http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics/index.html

Have you considered buying a Bayliner powered by a four stroke outboard? I know a club that will welcome a thinker like you with open arms. — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Old poets never die, they just ride off into the sonnet.

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Sheesh, I was hoping for a more virulent rebuttal…

Just trolling, huh? Oh well. One hopes for more than "praise" from the opposition. Hmmm…. Since corporations are entities "at law," formed to duck the Biblical requirement to pay 120% restitution -and- engage in usury, I would not put the words:

Please reference chapter and verse. "corporate" and "law and mores" in the same sentence Uff da.  One more kook…..   Are you from California????

Direct question:  Are you from California? Does your definition of "kook" mean one who doesn’t agree with your world view?I can sympathize. But I can refer you to the appropriate legal and biblical cites that support my claims. If that is not rational thought, then "your law" is irrational.

Rational thought is that Bubba shoulda been run out of office….  If anything, corporations are abominations. Sigh… now I am glad I did sell my shares of IBM I’m sure the CEO of IBM is still talking about your sale….. You missed the smiley face (irony). And what if I am right? By your opinion, I’m "obviously" wrong. Why not burst my bubble with any FACTS? Go ahead – make my day

Coporations are a form of partnership. "LAW" is not "Morality" and morality is not law. Law is the protection of property rights. Morality is policy and customs mutually agreed upon. Sure.  Watch this guy, he’s building up to sumpthin….. I hope so. Glad you caught that…

OK, are you in the used car business like the Bilgewater Network?  (Wanna see the url that proves that Bilgewater is a thinly disguised used car dealer.) For example, Biblical "Adultery" is a breach of contract and mere policy when a higher property right claim is made. Did you catch that string: Sex on Boats? Are you refering to gender or copulation? There is one section that forbids a woman to marry her husband’s brother, and calls it adultery.

Chapter and verse, please. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you know that those other cultists, the Green Weenies of the Bilgewater Network take turns in gaining carnal knowledge of their cult leader, Russel Long? In another section, if a man dies without children, it is the DUTY of the living brother to marry the widow and sire children to inherit in the dead brother’s name! I bet the Green Weenies are gonna kill file you…. What you failed to "read between the lines" is that the current "teachings" of adultery carefully omit the hard to refute FACTS that the Bible doesn’t agree with the modern interpretation of Adultery (sexual relations between parties not married to each other). And I do not mean that sexual intercourse is forbidden – quite the contrary – that "unlawful carnal knowledge" is restricted to very limited cases: A) with non-consenting parties (Rape) or B) those without the standing to choose (Minors and incapacitated) or C) those who are chattels or wards of another, and no permission was granted (Rape).Reiterating: Adultery was breach of a contract (the exchange of vows). Marriage created a new legal entity that could pass on property rights to the next generation. It is obvious that a child can inherit from the mother, but which father? Absent a contract, a child (bastard) cannot inherit the father’s property.

Seems like you are tying sex, money, and religion all into one theocracy, Fornication was a breach of property rights in one or both parties and was covered in Category C – thus a "free man" and "free woman" cannot commit fornication nor adultery.

I think I’ll tell that to my wife and then go out partying.. So when you re-read the Biblical teachings, you’ll find evidence that Abraham sired a child outside of the marriage and wasn’t condemned, and King David had wives AND concubines and wasn’t condemned. So where’s the Biblical base for all the sexual repression?

The examples you cite are polygamy and it was legal, moral, ethical way back when.. So much for "absolutes." Hey Harry……   wanna put a plastic tarp over this jerk? Why would you want to preserve me And anyway, I started this with a claim that Socialists are pirates. Did you find that "kooky," too?

Socialists are indeed dreadfull….   now please, are you from California? — Jeff Ganaposki http://www.freeyellow.com/members/living-word http://www.geocities.com/jetgraphics/index.html

You seem to have left the Rev. Dr. off of your sig…..  care to mention which seminary? — Paul " Catch on fire with enthusiasm and people will come for miles to watch you burn."  - John Wesley

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Either a Soph anthropology major with a friend in "pre-law", or a law student who just experienced a cathartic enlightenment in Contracts class.  And quite likely from California, too.  JG

Response:

Sheesh, I was hoping for a more virulent rebuttal… Just trolling, huh?

NO… just hoping for more than "you are nutz…" Oh well. One hopes for more than "praise" from the opposition. Hmmm…. Since corporations are entities "at law," formed to duck the Biblical requirement to pay 120% restitution -and- engage in usury, I would not put the words: Please reference chapter and verse.

"pay 120% restitution" *** Levi 6:4 Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty, that he shall restore that which he took violently away, or the thing which he hath deceitfully gotten, or that which was delivered him to keep, or the lost thing which he found, 5 Or all that about which he hath sworn falsely; he shall even restore it in the principal, and shall add the fifth part more thereto, and give it unto him to whom it appertaineth, in the day of his trespass offering. {FIFTH PART = 20%, 100% + 20% = 120% RESTITUTION) "Usury" EZEKIEL 18:13 (KING JAMES VERSION) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. CORPORATION – "…An artificial person created by charter etc., made up of many persons (corporation aggregate) or one (corporation sole)." WEBSTER’S Dictionary -contrast that with a legal dictionary- CORPORATION – "An artificial person or legal entity created by or under the authority of the laws of a state. An association of persons created by statute as a legal entity. . . . The corporation is distinct from the individuals who comprise it…" Black’s Law Dictionary, sixth ed., p. 340. Neither definition discloses the simple fact that the investors are involved in usury and are insulated from claims made against the corporation – hence the corporation is acting in a manner to defeat the prohibitions and recommendations in the Bible. "corporate" and "law and mores" in the same sentence Uff da.  One more kook…..   Are you from California???? Direct question:  Are you from California?

No. Does your definition of "kook" mean one who doesn’t agree with your world view?I can sympathize. But I can refer you to the appropriate legal and biblical cites that support my claims. If that is not rational thought, then "your law" is irrational. Rational thought is that Bubba shoulda been run out of office….

Perhaps… But here’s something to consider:A. The president is powerless. Why? B. Who protects the president? The secret service. C. What department is the secret service in? The treasury. D. FYI – The secretary of treasury is also the GOVERNOR of the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, etc., and by law (Title 22 USC Sec. 286 et al) is not to be paid by the U.S. government. And he’s paid by the FEDERAL RESERVE CORPORATION (which is NOT part of the government, btw). He who pays the salary, controls the office. Any president who monkeys with the banker’s usury scheme is either shot and / or killed. If the president is the Commander-in-Chief, why aren’t the Marines defending his butt?  If anything, corporations are abominations. Sigh… now I am glad I did sell my shares of IBM I’m sure the CEO of IBM is still talking about your sale….. You missed the smiley face (irony). And what if I am right? By your opinion, I’m "obviously" wrong. Why not burst my bubble with any FACTS? Go ahead – make my day Coporations are a form of partnership.

No. A partnership of living people doesn’t create limited liability. A corporation is a legal fiction. "LAW" is not "Morality" and morality is not law. Law is the protection of property rights. Morality is policy and customs mutually agreed upon. Sure.  Watch this guy, he’s building up to sumpthin….. I hope so. Glad you caught that… OK, are you in the used car business like the Bilgewater Network?  (Wanna see the url that proves that Bilgewater is a thinly disguised used car dealer.)

Naw… For example, Biblical "Adultery" is a breach of contract and mere policy when a higher property right claim is made. Did you catch that string: Sex on Boats? Are you refering to gender or copulation? There is one section that forbids a woman to marry her husband’s brother, and calls it adultery. Chapter and verse, please.

Sure thing: Levi 21 And if a man shall take his brother’s wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother’s nakedness; they shall be childless. REMEMBER HOW HEROD WAS CONDEMNED FOR TAKING HIS BROTHER’S WIFE: Matt 14:3 For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias’ sake, his brother Philip’s wife. 4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her. -BUT-: Deut 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, [NOTE: NO HEIR TO BROTHER'S PROPERTY...] the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, [!!!] and perform the duty of an husband’s brother unto her. 6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel. [AND HIS PROPERTY BE SEIZED BY CHALLENGERS] 7 And if the man like not to take his brother’s wife, then let his brother’s wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband’s brother. 8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her; 9 Then shall his brother’s wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother’s house. 10 And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed. IN PLAIN ENGLISH – TAKING A BROTHER’S WIFE IS A SIN EXCEPT WHEN IT IS TO TO PRESERVE PROPERTY RIGHTS – UNTO THE NEXT GENERATION. SO ADULTERY ISN’T ALWAYS ADULTERY! IF THE BROTHER FAILS TO ACT, HE IS CONDEMNED FOR NOT DOING AN ACT THAT IS CONDEMNED AS ADULTERY. WHAT IS REALLY THE LAW ON ADULTERY? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you know that those other cultists, the Green Weenies of the Bilgewater Network take turns in gaining carnal knowledge of their cult leader, Russel Long? In another section, if a man dies without children, it is the DUTY of the living brother to marry the widow and sire children to inherit in the dead brother’s name! I bet the Green Weenies are gonna kill file you…. What you failed to "read between the lines" is that the current "teachings" of adultery carefully omit the hard to refute FACTS that the Bible doesn’t agree with the modern interpretation of Adultery (sexual relations between parties not married to each other). And I do not mean that sexual intercourse is forbidden – quite the contrary – that "unlawful carnal knowledge" is restricted to very limited cases: A) with non-consenting parties (Rape) or B) those without the standing to choose (Minors and incapacitated) or C) those who are chattels or wards of another, and no permission was granted (Rape).Reiterating: Adultery was breach of a contract (the exchange of vows). Marriage created a new legal entity that could pass on property rights to the next generation. It is obvious that a child can inherit from the mother, but which father? Absent a contract, a child (bastard) cannot inherit the father’s property. Seems like you are tying sex, money, and religion all into one theocracy,

Theocracy refers to a form of government by religion. I do not support that.Law is the protection of property rights and is concerned with the relationship of one man to another. Religion is the relationship of one man to that Supreme Being or what his understanding of that entity is. "Good" religions teach the protection of property rights, "Bad" religions teach the opposite – that stealing the property of another, for "religious reasons," is "good." Fornication was a breach of property rights in one or both parties and was covered in Category C – thus a "free man" and "free woman" cannot commit fornication nor adultery. I think I’ll tell that to my wife and then go out partying..

You did not comprehend the three conditions were for FORNICATION – since you claim to be married, you are oath bound to her. If you go sexual partying, YOU ARE IN BREACH. So when you re-read the Biblical teachings, you’ll find evidence that Abraham sired a child outside of the marriage and wasn’t condemned, and King David had wives AND concubines and wasn’t condemned. So where’s the Biblical base for all the sexual repression? The examples you cite are polygamy and it was legal, moral, ethical way back when..

Well, where in the Bible does it say that polygamy is WRONG?The only place I found was when St. Paul says that a BISHOP should only have one wife. If you are not a Bishop, what’s the beef? Also, – - – if a man gives food, clothing and shelter to a woman, in exchange for sex, she’s a concubine, but if he gives her money, she’s a whore / prostitute!!! I guess money changes everything – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much for "absolutes." Hey Harry……   wanna put a plastic tarp over this jerk? Why would you want to preserve me And anyway, I started this with a

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Either a Soph anthropology major with a friend in "pre-law", or a law student who just experienced a cathartic enlightenment in Contracts class.  And quite likely from California, too.  JG

Nwwwwww….it was an Algoreism

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     Basing your ‘facts’ upon a book which is not proven as truth is pointless.   Shall I ‘prove’ to you that green eggs and ham are wonderful because the good Dr Suess said so?   Shall I start saying of the good Doctor that He is divine and His word is law just because it is written?   Other books which have just as much authority as the one you cite can be used to disprove what you say, so does that make what you say wrong?   I think that unless one starts with a basis in fact, the conclusions are flawed.   If you can use pure fact to prove what you say (not religious conjecture based on one of many religious books), I would be happy to listen to you, otherwise you hold no more truth in your hand than any other spastic evangelist.      Green is the color of His ham, and of His eggs, lo and behold His words which spake thus:   ‘I do not like green eggs and ham, I do not like them Sam I am’.   And Sam, the apostle, hath sayth unto thee that His ham is good and His eggs are good, and His greeness is above all.   Amen.

Sheesh, I was hoping for a more virulent rebuttal…

Just trolling, huh? NO… just hoping for more than "you are nutz…" Oh well. One hopes for more than "praise" from the opposition. Hmmm…. Since corporations are entities "at law," formed to duck the Biblical requirement to pay 120% restitution -and- engage in usury, I would not put the words:

Please reference chapter and verse. "pay 120% restitution" *** Levi 6:4 Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty, that he shall restore that which he took violently away, or the thing which he hath deceitfully gotten, or that which was delivered him to keep, or the lost thing which he found, 5 Or all that about which he hath sworn falsely; he shall even restore it in the principal, and shall add the fifth part more thereto, and give it unto him to whom it appertaineth, in the day of his trespass offering. {FIFTH PART = 20%, 100% + 20% = 120% RESTITUTION) "Usury" EZEKIEL 18:13 (KING JAMES VERSION) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. CORPORATION – "…An artificial person created by charter etc., made up of many persons (corporation aggregate) or one (corporation sole)." WEBSTER’S Dictionary -contrast that with a legal dictionary- CORPORATION – "An artificial person or legal entity created by or under the authority of the laws of a state. An association of persons created by statute as a legal entity. . . . The corporation is distinct from the individuals who comprise it…" Black’s Law Dictionary, sixth ed., p. 340. Neither definition discloses the simple fact that the investors are involved in usury and are insulated from claims made against the corporation – hence the corporation is acting in a manner to defeat the prohibitions and recommendations in the Bible. "corporate" and "law and mores" in the same sentence Uff da.  One more kook…..   Are you from California????

Direct question:  Are you from California? No. Does your definition of "kook" mean one who doesn’t agree with your world view?I can sympathize. But I can refer you to the appropriate legal and biblical cites that support my claims. If that is not rational thought, then "your law" is irrational.

Rational thought is that Bubba shoulda been run out of office…. Perhaps… But here’s something to consider:A. The president is powerless. Why? B. Who protects the president? The secret service. C. What department is the secret service in? The treasury. D. FYI – The secretary of treasury is also the GOVERNOR of the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, etc., and by law (Title 22 USC Sec. 286 et al) is not to be paid by the U.S. government. And he’s paid by the FEDERAL RESERVE CORPORATION (which is NOT part of the government, btw). He who pays the salary, controls the office. Any president who monkeys with the banker’s usury scheme is either shot and / or killed. If the president is the Commander-in-Chief, why aren’t the Marines defending his butt?  If anything, corporations are abominations. Sigh… now I am glad I did sell my shares of IBM I’m sure the CEO of IBM is still talking about your sale….. You missed the smiley face (irony). And what if I am right? By your opinion, I’m "obviously" wrong. Why not burst my bubble with any FACTS? Go ahead – make my day

Coporations are a form of partnership. No. A partnership of living people doesn’t create limited liability. A corporation is a legal fiction. "LAW" is not "Morality" and morality is not law. Law is the protection of property rights. Morality is policy and customs mutually agreed upon. Sure.  Watch this guy, he’s building up to sumpthin….. I hope so. Glad you caught that…

OK, are you in the used car business like the Bilgewater Network?  (Wanna see the url that proves that Bilgewater is a thinly disguised used car dealer.) Naw… For example, Biblical "Adultery" is a breach of contract and mere policy when a higher property right claim is made. Did you catch that string: Sex on Boats? Are you refering to gender or copulation? There is one section that forbids a woman to marry her husband’s brother, and calls it adultery.

Chapter and verse, please. Sure thing: Levi 21 And if a man shall take his brother’s wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother’s nakedness; they shall be childless. REMEMBER HOW HEROD WAS CONDEMNED FOR TAKING HIS BROTHER’S WIFE: Matt 14:3 For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias’ sake, his brother Philip’s wife. 4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her. -BUT-: Deut 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, [NOTE: NO HEIR TO BROTHER'S PROPERTY...] the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, [!!!] and perform the duty of an husband’s brother unto her. 6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel. [AND HIS PROPERTY BE SEIZED BY CHALLENGERS] 7 And if the man like not to take his brother’s wife, then let his brother’s wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband’s brother. 8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her; 9 Then shall his brother’s wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother’s house. 10 And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed. IN PLAIN ENGLISH – TAKING A BROTHER’S WIFE IS A SIN EXCEPT WHEN IT IS TO TO PRESERVE PROPERTY RIGHTS – UNTO THE NEXT GENERATION. SO ADULTERY ISN’T ALWAYS ADULTERY! IF THE BROTHER FAILS TO ACT, HE IS CONDEMNED FOR NOT DOING AN ACT THAT IS CONDEMNED AS ADULTERY. WHAT IS REALLY THE LAW ON ADULTERY? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you know that those other cultists, the Green Weenies of the Bilgewater Network take turns in gaining carnal knowledge of their cult leader, Russel Long? In another section, if a man dies without children, it is the DUTY of the living brother to marry the widow and sire children to inherit in the dead brother’s name! I bet the Green Weenies are gonna kill file you…. What you failed to "read between the lines" is that the current "teachings" of adultery carefully omit the hard to refute FACTS that the Bible doesn’t agree with the modern interpretation of Adultery (sexual relations between parties not married to each other). And I do not mean that sexual intercourse is forbidden – quite the contrary – that "unlawful carnal knowledge" is restricted to very limited cases: A) with non-consenting parties (Rape) or B) those without the standing to choose (Minors and incapacitated) or C) those who are chattels or wards of another, and no permission was granted (Rape).Reiterating: Adultery was breach of a contract (the exchange of vows). Marriage created a new legal entity that could pass on property rights to the next generation. It is obvious that a child can inherit from the mother, but which father? Absent a contract, a child (bastard) cannot inherit the father’s property.

Seems like you are tying sex, money, and religion all into one theocracy, Theocracy refers to a form of government by religion. I do not support that.Law is the protection of property rights and is concerned with the relationship of one man to another. Religion is the relationship of one man to that Supreme Being or what his understanding of that entity is. "Good" religions teach the protection of property rights, "Bad" religions teach the opposite – that stealing the property of another, for "religious reasons," is "good." Fornication was a breach of property rights in one or both parties and was covered in Category C – thus a "free man" and "free woman" cannot commit fornication nor adultery.

I think I’ll tell that to my wife and then go out partying.. You did not comprehend the three conditions were for FORNICATION – since you claim to be married, you are oath bound to her. If you go sexual partying, YOU ARE IN BREACH. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So when you re-read the Biblical teachings, you’ll find evidence that

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Question:

Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that swimming is not effective for fat loss. Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

i’m not really certain about the correct response about the swimming but i would guess that you may be correct to a degree…. what i would suggest though is that should you decide to start a crosstraining regime you should definitely get some good inner shoe supports for your feet. if you are in the US sporting goods stores like Dick’s have many styles of arch support, along with places like walmart etc where you can actually take your shoes in, insert the supports and try them out to see how they feel….i will say though that walmart may not let you do that in the store so you’d probably have to go buy some and then return them, but to me it seems like a waste of money to do it that way 9mostly since i hate returning things)…my suggestion like i said before is go to a local sporting goods store and ask them about the supports…try a few out, pick one you seem to like the most and then you could go for the less expensive brands at the other stores….that way you’ll also have more of an idea of what is out there, and what would be best for you. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that swimming is not effective for fat loss. Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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As far as I can tell, it is working for me! I try and swim between a quarter mile and a half-mile twice a week. However, I also use a ski machine once or twice a week as well. But one thing I know for sure, there is less fat on my hips I can grab onto!!! I swim at a HR of 120, once in awhile, 126. So I’m probably (accounting for the fact that HR drops in the pool) working in my 75% zone. Anything is likely to be more effective for fat loss than doing nothing <G! I’d say give it a try. Cynthia G 262/222/200 (for now) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that swimming is not effective for fat loss. Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

The insulation issue refers to when you are swimming in VERY cold water, then yes, your body does try to insulate itself.  But if you are just swimming in your local pool and not sub-zero weather, then this does not apply. Swimming is a great no-impact workout, it depends how hard you push yourself. Try water aerobics. Jennifer in Vancouver 140/125.5/110 "We became homeless for a time, but it was in Canada, so I thought we’d gone camping." – Jim Carrey [seeking Bonnie Sharon Porter from Ontario born 1958] * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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I have found swimming great for fat loss and toning up.Although obviously you get a much better rate of fat loss it you diet also. Not stupid diets that never work and leave you hungry, but just cutting down on sweet things and booze! But I find swimming a great way to exercise and relax.  I am currently swimming three mornings per week and I alternate the swimming with stretch exercise and sit ups at home, and gentle hill walking on weekends.  And I am really loosing the inches! Cheers   Mair * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Someone correct me if I am wrong, please… But I believe that swimming is a great exercise. The fat as an insulation thing, I guess is a misinterpretation of how your body loses or retains fat. I am expeculating here that people or you, got to this conclusion based on the fact that when you exercise, or do some work outs, like swimming, your fat seems to get colder… In a swimming pool in addition to the fact that your body is adjusting to the water temperature, there is also the fact that your body is deriving energy from fat, and when fat gives energy, it gives heat, which means, it loses heat, and when you finish working out, it is (the fat around your body)colder… colder doesn’t mean it is not being used… Just my two cents… Lourdes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that swimming is not effective for fat loss. Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Swimming is a great workout and does burns fat.  And the best part tends to be swimming can overall tone over other kinds of machines.  I loved the my back looked when I swam. Rosebud 14/12/6

my absolute favorite thing about swimming? no jarring of the joints! rosie

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hi K! i remember when COVERT BAILEY was first starting his INFOMERCIAL stuff and he made a comment (which he later retracted) that swimming was NOT aerobic and NOT fat burning! he, of course, was wrong! — "To speak ill of others is a dishonest way of praising ourselves." — W.Durant read and post, its a commitment! rosie email: remember to REMOVETHIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Swimming is fine for fat loss.  In general the confusion re swimming and fat loss seems to stem from the stated "fact" that professional or competing swimmers tend to have higher body fat percentages than other athletes of similar age and body style. Kali Blonde, aka K in Cali : Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking : for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my : quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it : is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body : tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that : swimming is not effective for fat loss. : : Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine : or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? : : Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? : : : Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Swimming is fine for fat loss.  In general the confusion re swimming and fat loss seems to stem from the stated "fact" that professional or competing swimmers tend to have higher body fat percentages than other athletes of similar age and body style. Kali Blonde, aka K in Cali

I used to be a swimmer.  And yes you do have more fat, because if you didn’t you would sink.  The fat helps you stay on top of the water not down at the bottom.  I can tell you that it was work keeping the "fat" on.  This led me to some very bad eating habits I’m fighting right now.   Swimming is a great workout and does burns fat.  And the best part tends to be swimming can overall tone over other kinds of machines.  I loved the my back looked when I swam. Rosebud 14/12/6

Response:

Swimming is fine for fat loss.  In general the confusion re swimming and fat loss seems to stem from the stated "fact" that professional or competing swimmers tend to have higher body fat percentages than other athletes of similar age and body style. Kali Blonde, aka K in Cali

: Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking : for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my : quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it : is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body : tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that : swimming is not effective for fat loss. : : Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine : or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? : : Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? : : : Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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You do, of course, have an excellent pair of orthotics, yes? Kali Blonde, aka K in Cali

: Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking : for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my : quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it : is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body : tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that : swimming is not effective for fat loss. : : Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine : or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? : : Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? : : : Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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i agree! fat loss from water aerobics (which are safe for us arthritics) is just one of the benefits. being limber is THE BEST benefit! — Today, i will be tolerant of myself, from that i will learn appropriate tolerance of others! http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm read and post, its a commitment! rosie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have found swimming great for fat loss and toning up.Although obviously you get a much better rate of fat loss it you diet also. Not stupid diets that never work and leave you hungry, but just cutting down on sweet things and booze! But I find swimming a great way to exercise and relax.  I am currently swimming three mornings per week and I alternate the swimming with stretch exercise and sit ups at home, and gentle hill walking on weekends.  And I am really loosing the inches! Cheers Mair * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine or an elliptical trainer for fat loss?

Swimming is a FANTASTIC way to help you with your weight loss. Anything is better than nothing, and if you are up for it…. GO!!! Keep us posted on your success!! Thom

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The thing about swimming is that you work EVERYTHING. It is excellent exercise for the cardiovascular system. Water creates resistance. IF you do it vigorously enough, you probably will lose some fat. You will probably build some muscle which is important when people are losing weight. The first thing you lose is water, then muscle, then fat. When you exercise during weight loss, as you build muscle, the body will begin to burn more fat. So implimenting some form of exercise is important. You may even want to try water aerobics which is going to be less stressful on the joints than a ‘land’ aerobics class. You also might want to try bicylcing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because my feet are flat, rigid, and borderline arthritic, I am looking for an alternative to running, walking, and fitness machines in my quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that swimming is not effective for fat loss. Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine or an elliptical trainer for fat loss? Are there any other newsgroups that I should consult for this issue? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

– Sheila "Top of the world, Ma!" Before you buy.

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I think that depends. I know I have a pretty good kick going, and frankly, it is my legs that often are the most sore after a swim workout.  I do also sidestroke and let me tell you, a scissors kick works the legs quite well… it is certainly the main propulsion for that particular stroke! YMMV. If you want to work the legs more, I believe fins can help. The thought just makes me cringe right now…. Cynthia G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Water aerobics would probably be more effective than regular swimming. Swimming is certainly far better than no exercise, but most swimming involves the arms much more than the legs, so your largest muscle groups which burn the most calories aren’t doing as much of the work. —  "There’s a seeker born every minute."

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quest to lose fat.  I am considering swimming, but I have heard that it is not an effective way to lose fat.  Some people tell me that the body tries to retain fat as insulation when one is in the water, so that swimming is not effective for fat loss. Is this true?  Is swimming as effective as a cross country ski machine or an elliptical trainer for fat loss?

Water aerobics would probably be more effective than regular swimming. Swimming is certainly far better than no exercise, but most swimming involves the arms much more than the legs, so your largest muscle groups which burn the most calories aren’t doing as much of the work. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

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okay, time to put my .02 in .  I do water aerobics and believe it or not I get hot and sweaty(at least my forehead does) in the water.  I mean I know that I am doing, in comparision to regular aerobics, low impact aerobics doing water aerobics but who cares as long as it does the job.  I also do the eliptical machine two to three times a week.  I will tell you I feel better when I do the water aerobics v/s the eliptical.  I also seem to lose more weight when I do more water aerobics than eliptical.  As far as the insulation thing goes the temp in my pool at the gym is close to tepid.  I think that is why I get so hot. Sending you encouraging thoughts, Teresa 268/225/under 200 by 00

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Question:

Translation: vaporware.  CYMA is taking a page straight out of Microsoft’s book. Remember Windows ‘92 er ‘95. Arthur Anderson Technologies?  Hopefully they’ll support this better than they’ve supported their packages in the past, and hopefully this works better than their fixed assets package. surfer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     CYMA Systems is doing just fine. A lot of the functionality that you are looking for will be coming in future upgrades to the product and much of it will be introduced in the appropriate modules. They are planning a major overhaul of the payroll module this summer ( Sept/Oct release date ) and the Inventory module is scheduled to be developed this fall ( Dec/Jan release date(?)). CYMA had originally planned to develop the Inventory module  late last year, but changed plans and developed the Client Writeup module in its place in order to accomodate Arther Anderson Technologies. CYMA had originally planned to develop the Client Writeup module late this year. If there is a feature which you don’t see but would like, write to CYMA Systems     The rumors regarding the financial health of CYMA Systems are misinformation being spread by a disgrundled ex-employee. In fact, CYMA finished last year in the black. Tim Scheidler J. T. Mudd and Associates, Inc. a certified CYMA dealer -Hey!   Have you heard anything more? -I am very impressed with their ledger.   True, it isn’t as -fully integrated or feature rich as Peachtree Quickbooks or -Accpac… a dangerous situation for them. -They have a tieup with Andersen.  Andersen A+ Tax -software imports ledgers from CYMA.   Cool feature, AFAIC. -I expect CYMA will pull thru somehow.  They burned a hell -of a lot of cash on promotion in 1997.  Shoulda spent it on -developmt, in my opinion.  Maybe they will just remain very -small?  There are tons of small "cottage industry" ledgers, -which will be there forever. -The accounting market is very very tough.  See the -Accounting Technology mag. art. this month with -cover art. "Consolidation" of software vendors….. -* Todd F. Boyle CPA              www.isomedia.com/homes/tboyle -* 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033            (425) 827-3107 -* co-moderator        biz.comp.accounting -Has anyone heard about the problems CYMA Systems is having with its new -product. – -I have heard that they about to go under.  Since prior to Thanksgiving -they have laid off about 2/3s of their employees.  They are running -behind on their updates and it looks like the inventory module will be -scrapped. -Has anyone heard about the problems CYMA Systems is having with its new -product. – -I have heard that they about to go under.  Since prior to Thanksgiving -they have laid off about 2/3s of their employees.  They are running -behind on their updates and it looks like the inventory module will be -scrapped.

Response:

    CYMA Systems is doing just fine. A lot of the functionality that you are looking for will be coming in future upgrades to the product and much of it will be introduced in the appropriate modules. They are planning a major overhaul of the payroll module this summer ( Sept/Oct release date ) and the Inventory module is scheduled to be developed this fall ( Dec/Jan release date(?)). CYMA had originally planned to develop the Inventory module  late last year, but changed plans and developed the Client Writeup module in its place in order to accomodate Arther Anderson Technologies. CYMA had originally planned to develop the Client Writeup module late this year. If there is a feature which you don’t see but would like, write to CYMA Systems     The rumors regarding the financial health of CYMA Systems are misinformation being spread by a disgrundled ex-employee. In fact, CYMA finished last year in the black. Tim Scheidler J. T. Mudd and Associates, Inc. a certified CYMA dealer -Hey!   Have you heard anything more? -I am very impressed with their ledger.   True, it isn’t as -fully integrated or feature rich as Peachtree Quickbooks or -Accpac… a dangerous situation for them. -They have a tieup with Andersen.  Andersen A+ Tax -software imports ledgers from CYMA.   Cool feature, AFAIC. -I expect CYMA will pull thru somehow.  They burned a hell -of a lot of cash on promotion in 1997.  Shoulda spent it on -developmt, in my opinion.  Maybe they will just remain very -small?  There are tons of small "cottage industry" ledgers, -which will be there forever. -The accounting market is very very tough.  See the -Accounting Technology mag. art. this month with -cover art. "Consolidation" of software vendors….. -* Todd F. Boyle CPA              www.isomedia.com/homes/tboyle -* 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033            (425) 827-3107 -* co-moderator        biz.comp.accounting -Has anyone heard about the problems CYMA Systems is having with its new -product. – -I have heard that they about to go under.  Since prior to Thanksgiving -they have laid off about 2/3s of their employees.  They are running -behind on their updates and it looks like the inventory module will be -scrapped.

-Has anyone heard about the problems CYMA Systems is having with its new -product. – -I have heard that they about to go under.  Since prior to Thanksgiving -they have laid off about 2/3s of their employees.  They are running -behind on their updates and it looks like the inventory module will be -scrapped.

Response:

Has anyone heard about the problems CYMA Systems is having with its new product. I have heard that they about to go under.  Since prior to Thanksgiving they have laid off about 2/3s of their employees.  They are running behind on their updates and it looks like the inventory module will be scrapped.

Response:

Hey!   Have you heard anything more? I am very impressed with their ledger.   True, it isn’t as fully integrated or feature rich as Peachtree Quickbooks or Accpac… a dangerous situation for them. They have a tieup with Andersen.  Andersen A+ Tax software imports ledgers from CYMA.   Cool feature, AFAIC. I expect CYMA will pull thru somehow.  They burned a hell of a lot of cash on promotion in 1997.  Shoulda spent it on developmt, in my opinion.  Maybe they will just remain very small?  There are tons of small "cottage industry" ledgers, which will be there forever.   The accounting market is very very tough.  See the Accounting Technology mag. art. this month with cover art. "Consolidation" of software vendors….. * Todd F. Boyle CPA              www.isomedia.com/homes/tboyle * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033            (425) 827-3107 * co-moderator        biz.comp.accounting Has anyone heard about the problems CYMA Systems is having with its new product. I have heard that they about to go under.  Since prior to Thanksgiving they have laid off about 2/3s of their employees.  They are running behind on their updates and it looks like the inventory module will be scrapped.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard about the problems CYMA Systems is having with its new product. I have heard that they about to go under.  Since prior to Thanksgiving they have laid off about 2/3s of their employees.  They are running behind on their updates and it looks like the inventory module will be scrapped.

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