Question:

Okay, I am not sure how this is related to depression at all, but here goes anyway.   <SNIP How much money can I expect to make in Networking? With a two year degree and certification? I am interested in Networking but the community college I’m going to only offers a two year degree. Their Business Administration program offers a two year transferrable degree, which I feel is important so I can go further.

I have no clue how much you can make networking, but is it something you would enjoy?  When you go into the tech field, you better enjoy your job because chances are that there will be periods of instability in the field (You will get fired a few times). <SNIP – Computer Science Associates to a Bachelors (2 year transferrable)  -

You have already said that you are bad at math and bad at computer science.  Why the hell would you want a computer science degree if you are bad at these things, besides the money.  This is not the type of field where you go to school, learn stuff and get a big job you keep for ever.  You are continuously learning new things that are being developed.  And if you are not good at learning from books, then I am not really sure that this is the field for you. Computer Networking (Micro or CISCO) offered at a two year degree only at this community college

What are the job prospects for these guys lately?  I know that the average pay fell a few percent for all CS and EE types.  But I have no grasp on the computer networking people besides the fact that their lives were hell. – Business Administration (with focus on Acct/Finance) Associate to Bachelors (2 year transferrable)

Again this looks like MATH stuff will be involved.  Do you work well with others? There are ways to improve your skill set and get a better paying job, but you seem to be only concerned with the money with the way you write. Business people never sleep.  I would go into work at 9am, and the managers were already there at 7.  I would leave at 5, and the managers were still there until 7 or so that night.  Despite the pay being good, that is not the type of life I want to live.

Response:

Hi, it’s me again. I posted earlier about taking Accounting (Business Administration) and/or Computer Networking (Cisco or Microsoft). I have a few days to decide, I need some help. How much money can I expect to make in Networking? With a two year degree and certification? I am interested in Networking but the community college I’m going to only offers a two year degree. Their Business Administration program offers a two year transferrable degree, which I feel is important so I can go further. Previously, I have an Associates in Data Processing, but that only lets me get entry level jobs with jobs using computers, like insurance claims, etc. I’m tired of these $9, $10 an hour jobs, I need more. I did attempt to get a Bachelors in Computer Science after my Associates (back in 98) but failed miserably. No matter how many times I read my C++ books, no matter how many classes I take, I’m not good at coding or designing programs. The major problems come with math (I failed Calculus, I was clueless, so I’d want to start at College Algebra again) and halfway through my second Intro to CISC class… as soon as my instructors introduce classes, objects, structs, advanced functions, and especially linked lists, boy am I clueless. I can read it over and over and over but the material is very abstract… that’s one thing I remember my professor telling us… "this has many layers of abstraction." No shit man. At about this time 90% of the class dropped out, continued and failed, or passed with a D. The other 10% of the class got A+’s… very strange. These people naturally intelligent, especially in mathmatics. You know the type… the ones on Schloastic Scrimmage that when asked, say their parents are doctors, engineers, scientists… It always annoyed me when the three asian/foreign students/kids from smart parents got all A+’s and everyone else was clueless. Sorry if that sounds bad, but you know what I mean. From my experience I don’t think any C++ course that I took went over the material enough/explained things thoroughly and gave us clear assignments/real experience. I was very disappointed in the quality of the instruction and texts. You can read about advanced functions, return types, parameters, passing by reference, value, data hiding, private and public all day (damn, I actually do know some things) but without designing programs that work (like the beginning ATM MACHINE example) and are CLEAR what’s the point? It’s like when I was finally understanding classes, objects, then I thought about a program that would be able to flip a coin and come up heads or tails… (I was planning on making a text football game like one I played years ago on an apple II), but I had no clue how to do it. The thing that always bothered me is that I didn’t realize exactly how what I was learning would translate into making software/games… how do you get graphics on the screen, how do you make real programs with menus, etc and not just staring at the cryptic Turbo C++ screen? I’m still not completely familiar with this. The next semester I took a class that allowed us to make simple graphics and code into those graphics, with Delphi… I made a semi working calculator, but when it comes to code that requires complicated math I have problems again. Unfortunately too, the Delphi Class I took (after taking Intro to C++) used the Pascal language… Why they would use Pascal when we had been tought C++ is beyond me. So I guess i’m saying, if I do have an interest in computers, networking, programming, why don’t I just shoot for the Bachelors in Computer Science? I see they’re offering Visual C++ now in the second semester (different school), and I do have a slight background in it. I just fear failing again and being left with no real skills to get a better job… thus I am thinking about accounting or computer networking, to get some real job skills so I can at least enjoy my job more than I do now (shitty $8 an hour job, meaningless work) and make $15-$20 or more per hour to live a decent life. Some may say it shouldn’t be about the money, but a year at a crummy job digging yourself out of debt and putting up with bullshit will change your mind. I wish to start at community college again to keep my costs down (it may all be paid with a grant, so I won’t have to pay it back) or (i guess this is cool) a low interest loan. Now that I’m living on my own it’s going to be harder, because I need to keep a full time job while going to school. I’m slowly putting the pieces together, I just hate making decisions like this, because I want to go as far as I can go, but I don’t want to short change myself either… but I don’t want to be out there in the job market at the mercy of meaningless work. Any advice would be appreciated. – Computer Science Associates to a Bachelors (2 year transferrable) – Computer Networking (Micro or CISCO) offered at a two year degree only at this community college – Business Administration (with focus on Acct/Finance) Associate to Bachelors (2 year transferrable) I did think about taking a double major but I don’t want slow myself down and mess up even more. thanks, L.

Response:

Question:

OK, Ron, but what do you suggest? Just lament about the world? Tone at the top is indeed a very important factor in the overall control environment. Nobody is perfect but there still are a lot of people with basic integrity. Until now I have not encountered a single accounting professional who has not experienced professional ethical conflicts. They belong to the function. The question is how we deal with them in real professional life, not just in standards. How would you react in the situation which I tried to describe in detail in a previous post?

As you may or may not know, Ron’s experience was in Government.  In my opinion his comments are truth "as he knows it" and highly illuminating. I’ll be gone again until Monday.  When I get back I want to comment further on Sarah’s original request. In my opinion this is one of the most cogent threads we have had for a while. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my opinion, this subject deserves a lot more thoughtful attention than it is getting.  Our present arrangement practically guarantees large scale fraud.  The system is based on trust.  If you have bad people in the  system it fails.  Even in a police state you have bad people  who circumvent the system.  You can only make the system work  if you have cultural standards that support ethical behavior  and a police function with integrity.  You can only have  these two things when you have a broad support from the  cutter for them.  Now, in the face of this, we had Bill  Clinton. As Lucien points out, a diligent honest internal auditor faced with an illegal slush situation really has no place to go – if he / she wants to stay employed.  You can not have internal OR external auditors with integrity  if you don’t have top management with integrity.  You can’t  have top management with integrity unless you have a Board  with integrity.  Have you looked at how Corporate Boards of Directors are  chosen?  IMHO, a lot of people were, are, and will be rotten.  It is  pretty hard to keep the number down when we seem to have  large segments of society making heroes of rottenness.  As you can see, I don’t think it is an accounting problem, I  think it is a people problem.  From everything I’ve read and seen, I believe it is very hard  to change people in the short run.  By short run, I mean  under a hundred years.

OK, Ron, but what do you suggest? Just lament about the world? Tone at the top is indeed a very important factor in the overall control environment. Nobody is perfect but there still are a lot of people with basic integrity. Until now I have not encountered a single accounting professional who has not experienced professional ethical conflicts. They belong to the function. The question is how we deal with them in real professional life, not just in standards. How would you react in the situation which I tried to describe in detail in a previous post? A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

attention to what went on below the waist. Reality is "messier" that most academic theories.

       ^^^^ Reality is messier than _all_ (valid) academic theories! Thinking anything else would miss the very essence of systematic science. Theory is about what is essential to _explain_ observed phenomena concisely, not to describe them in every minute detail. Likewise models always are simplifications of reality. That is what they are for. To get at the essence and the critical factors. A non-essential side issue. I know the word academic was meant for emphasis, but in science a theory is a theory.    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Longdistance skating page http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/info/timonice.html

Response:

Timo, you have my full agreement on this. When formulating date here: little or none. Academia still generally prefer to exclude creative accounting from perception. It’s much easier

In fact, creative accounting is a well-known phenomenon for example among the accounting scholars in Finland. Has been for a long time. There are even several treaties on the subject. The cause of the apparent lack and reluctance to take up your sensible suggestion in the academia is probably simple. Scientific research projects are long-term endeavors. One can’t quickly jump from subject to subject, as one can, and has to in business practice in accounting.  a search with journals like    Accounting, Organizations and Society Advances in Timo, could you give us the URLs, please? I’m not familiar with

Certainly. The URLs can be found thorugh the last line of the signature version I almost always use in this newsgroup. Please see below    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

attention to what went on below the waist. Reality is "messier" that most academic theories.

       ^^^^ Dear Lucien, Reality is messier than _all_ academic theories! Anything else would miss the very essence of systematic science. Theory is about what is essential to _explain_ observed phenomena concisely, not to describe them in every minute detail. Likewise models always are simplifications of reality. That is what they are for. To get at the crucial factors and their effects. A non-essential side issue. I know the word academic was meant for emphasis, and I am using it even myself, but one could say that in science a theory is a theory.    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

 In fact, creative accounting is a well-known phenomenon for  example among the accounting scholars in Finland. Has been  for a long time.  There are even several treaties on the  subject.

Excellent, Timo, happy to hear this. Have these efforts put more pressure on Finnish companies not to indulge in creative accouting, exposed such indulgence quicker, etc.? Our (some colleagues and yours truly) efforts here in Switzerland are starting to bear some fruit among financial jounalists who tend more to expose creative accounting. Today’s example 100 % relevant: Deutsche Telekomm. If you know German, here is a useful link: http://archiv.nzz.ch  The cause of the apparent lack and reluctance to take up your  sensible suggestion in the academia is probably simple.  Scientific research projects are long-term endeavors. One  can’t quickly jump from subject to subject, as one can, and  has to in business practice in accounting.

I wish these were the only motives. But I fear lucrative consulting mandates from big corporations may be another. Thanks for the URLs, Timo. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

The Department of Justice DOES enforce the FCPA.  If you have knowledge of a violation, you should call their hotline and lodge a complaint.  As with all law enforcement agencies, they cannot prosecute crimes that they are ignorant of.

… 5. To my knowledge (please correct me if appropriate), the    US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (such things of course never    occur in the good old USofA), criminalises bribes only to    government officials, not, however, to officials of private    enterprises.

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

 The Department of Justice DOES enforce the FCPA.  If you have  knowledge of a violation, you should call their hotline and  lodge a complaint.  As with all law enforcement agencies,  they cannot prosecute crimes that they are ignorant of.  … 5. To my knowledge (please correct me if appropriate), the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (such things of course never occur in the good old USofA), criminalises bribes only to government officials, not, however, to officials of private enterprises.

Ron, we may have a communication breakdown. The point I was trying to make is that, to my knowledge, bribes of private enterprise officers, e. g. purchase officer, are beyond the scope of the FCPA. The FCPA targets only bribes of government officials. Is this correct? A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

Yes.  However, if a state owns any part of the enterprise, AFAIK, a bribe will be considered covered under FCPA.  I would wonder if this could be extended to a governmental pension fund owning common stock of a company. http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/fraud/fcpa.html If you can’t use FCPA, In the US you can always buy a few shares and go after the company as a shareholder. IMHO, most corporate criminal activity goes un punished because no one really cares enough to bring a civil action.

… trying to make is that, to my knowledge, bribes of private enterprise officers, e. g. purchase officer, are beyond the scope of the FCPA. The FCPA targets only bribes of government officials. Is this correct?

… *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, first of all some caveats: 1. I have not and do not operate slush funds. 2. I do not approve slush funds. Secondly, let us bear in mind: 1. Of the 150 or so countries in the world, it is impossible to    do business without operating slush funds in 80 % or more. 2. Slush funds operate as you know to pay tax free    "commissions", finance private activities of board members    and corporate officers and the like. 3. Slush funds correspond to tacit reserves in the corporation’s    balance sheet. The accounts understate cash and overstate    expenses. On the other hand, fiscal and other legal    liabilities potentially ensuing from slush funds are not    among the stated liabilites. 4. Corporations generally "feed" the slush funds using say one    or more of the following methods:    a) underinvoicing, the customer paying the balance into the       slush fund    b) requesting overinvoicing by suppliers, the balance going       into the slush fund    c) accepting invoices for fictitious goods and especially       services and settling by payments into slush funds 5. To my knowledge (please correct me if appropriate), the    US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (such things of course never    occur in the good old USofA), criminalises bribes only to    government officials, not, however, to officials of private    enterprises. Bill, your questions are on the right track. Let us assume you are an internal auditor of a multinationally active corporation which by necessity operates slush funds in a number of countries. (Either have slush funds or cease operations.) Management is concerned about "proper" operation of these slush funds, e. g.: 1. Are the slush funds really used for their intended purposes? 2. Are the "commissions" paid reasonable by local market    standards? 3. Are the running costs of the slush funds reasonable? 4. What risks and probable outcomes exist in case of discovery,    disclosure, blackmail, etc.? What are your options as an internal auditor? 1. Refuse to plan and / or perform the audit due to professional    ethical conflict according to the SPPIA (Standards of    Professional Practice of Internal Audit)? 2. Try and get the corporation to close down all slush funds and    cease operations in all markets which necessitate such funds? 3. Get outside counsel? 4. Escalate the ethical conflict and ultimately resign after    submission of an informative memorandum, fully aware that    nearly all comparable corporations engage in similar    practices, i. e. substantially narrowing your job market? 5. Blow the whistle e. g. by informing external audit? 6. Diligently perform the audit but qualifying your audit    opinion by expressing basic disapproval of slush funds? 7. Make recommendations concerning on-balance-sheet accounting    entries for the slush funds? In my experience academia generally do not, if at all, adequately address such issues which occur quite frequently in the real world. Like pre-Freudian psychology did not pay much attention to what went on below the waist. Reality is "messier" that most academic theories.

In my opinion, this subject deserves a lot more thoughtful attention than it is getting.  Our present arrangement practically guarantees large scale fraud. As Lucien points out, a diligent honest internal auditor faced with an illegal slush situation really has no place to go – if he / she wants to stay employed. I don’t know if Lucien’s 80% figure is right or not.  I don’t know if anyone knows.  Slush, like all fraud, is a very secretive business.  We only know about those situations that are discovered and publicized. In my opinion, the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act only makes sense if we (USA) are willing to massively reduce our own involvement in world trade.  If bribes are necessary to get international business, our (USA) international companies are no doubt paying bribes right along with everyone else.  Whistle blowers are not tolerated, be they internal or external.  The only auditors who can remain employed are those who are able to avoid the slush. There are no easy or quick answers here. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

… In my opinion, this subject deserves a lot more thoughtful attention than it is getting.  Our present arrangement practically guarantees large scale fraud. The system is based on trust.  If you have bad people in the system it fails.  Even in a police state you have bad people who circumvent the system.  You can only make the system work if you have cultural standards that support ethical behavior and a police function with integrity.  You can only have these two things when you have a broad support from the cutter for them.

All true. Now, in the face of this, we had Bill Clinton.

HAD is the operative word here.  It is time to move on. As Lucien points out, a diligent honest internal auditor faced with an illegal slush situation really has no place to go – if he / she wants to stay employed. You can not have internal OR external auditors with integrity if you don’t have top management with integrity.

Nonsense.  This is the central purpose behind our Independence ethic. You can’t have top management with integrity unless you have a Board with integrity.

This I agree with. Have you looked at how Corporate Boards of Directors are chosen?

Of course I have. IMHO, a lot of people were, are, and will be rotten.  It is pretty hard to keep the number down when we seem to have large segments of society making heroes of rottenness.

The idea of Robbing Hood (pun intended) goes back a long way, no doubt about that. Nevertheless, for a system to remain functional it must be designed to isolate and remove corruption.  In my opinion that is one of the prime reasons that professional accountants exist (we will probably not agree on this). As you can see, I don’t think it is an accounting problem, I think it is a people problem.

In my opinion it is both. From everything I’ve read and seen, I believe it is very hard to change people in the short run.  By short run, I mean under a hundred years.

I don’t have a hundred years. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

Academia is a club all its own. Being principally a practitioner  Yes, there undeniably is a, sometimes huge, expectation gap,  even widened by the fact that a deeper understanding of (any)  scientific research requires a lot more and a bit different  than familiarity with (per se very valuable) professional  accounting lore. On the other hand the scholars should bear  the need of popularization and clarity in mind. More  discussion between the two sides is good and welcome.

Timo, you have my full agreement on this. When formulating theories, scientific and intellectual rigor are appropriate and necessary. Example: in several lectures I suggested that "creative accounting" be officially included in university syllabuses under "financial statement analysis". Response to date here: little or none. Academia still generally prefer to exclude creative accounting from perception. It’s much easier just to use the numbers presented at their face value, especially if they are IAS "lite and soft" certified by your "client friendly" big 5 audit firm who give grants to the university. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – impression is that accounting academia generally do not and do not wish to address the most important issues our profession faces: professional ethical conflicts. Accounting theory today  Are you sure you have looked at the right places? I certainly  am not a specialist in that particular subfield (mine is  financial statement analysis research and quantitative  methods), but I have good reasons to subject your blanket  claim under friendly doubt. I predict with high probability  that a couple of day’s intensive search of scientific  journals’ databases might show otherwise. I would start such  a search with journals like    Accounting, Organizations and Society Advances in    Accounting Behavioral Research Behavioral Research in    Accounting Critical Perspectives on Accounting Journal of    Accounting Education

Timo, could you give us the URLs, please? I’m not familiar with all of these but with pronouncements of the various professional orgs. In reality, diligent observance of these prononcements would put a material number of accountants out of work. And / or have a significant effect towards cleaning up business practice. A. Lucien Meyers — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

… In my opinion, this subject deserves a lot more thoughtful attention than it is getting.  Our present arrangement practically guarantees large scale fraud.

The system is based on trust.  If you have bad people in the system it fails.  Even in a police state you have bad people who circumvent the system.  You can only make the system work if you have cultural standards that support ethical behavior and a police function with integrity.  You can only have these two things when you have a broad support from the cutter for them.  Now, in the face of this, we had Bill Clinton. As Lucien points out, a diligent honest internal auditor faced with an illegal slush situation really has no place to go – if he / she wants to stay employed.

You can not have internal OR external auditors with integrity if you don’t have top management with integrity.  You can’t have top management with integrity unless you have a Board with integrity. Have you looked at how Corporate Boards of Directors are chosen? IMHO, a lot of people were, are, and will be rotten.  It is pretty hard to keep the number down when we seem to have large segments of society making heroes of rottenness. As you can see, I don’t think it is an accounting problem, I think it is a people problem. From everything I’ve read and seen, I believe it is very hard to change people in the short run.  By short run, I mean under a hundred years. … — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I recently resigned from my position as a staff accountant at  a public accounting firm here in Houston, we did mainly audit  work of small public companies.  Before that, I was internal at  a small (30-50MM per year construction company) and I am back  internal at a couple of the companies my previous firm audits  (they have too little $$ to afford actual full-time controllers.)  My education is BA in humanities, MBA in general business.  I am heading back to college to pick up accounting hours  in order to take the CPA exam and weighing my professional  options.  One thing that I am considering is getting a  PHD in accounting or a related field and going into teaching/  research.  I would be interested in a discussion regarding  such a career, eg, benefits and drawbacks, how it is (or is  not) fulfilling to those who are (or used to be) doing it,  trends for the future needs, what are ongoing interesting  research areas, etc..

Sarah, It’s difficult to answer query in a general way and still be specific. Pecuniary interests do not seem to be your primary concern, but nonetheless the $ rank of accounting and / or audit related jobs is: 1. CFO 2. Chief Controller 3. Director of Internal Audit Academia is a club all its own. Being principally a practitioner but with considerable lecturing and teaching exposure, my impression is that accounting academia generally do not and do not wish to address the most important issues our profession faces: professional ethical conflicts. Accounting theory today is IMHO still like psychology before Freud. To clearly illustrate what I mean, what answers does accounting and audit theory provide to the following question: How should one properly audit a slush fund? One avenue you should investigate is tax consultation and tax return preparation. Clients usually clearly recognize the benefits of such services more than say external audit. With such activities as throwing billions of good money after bad (our Swiss federal and state governments’ "rescueing" Swissair) and your government’s waging war against one of the world’s poorest countries, competent tax advisors will probably not run out of work in the forseeable future due to waning taxation. Tax work automatically gets you involved in investment counselling. Hope this reply does more than contribute to confusion. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. http://www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

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<<SNIP Academia is a club all its own. Being principally a practitioner but with considerable lecturing and teaching exposure, my impression is that accounting academia generally do not and do not wish to address the most important issues our profession faces: professional ethical conflicts. Accounting theory today is IMHO still like psychology before Freud. To clearly illustrate what I mean, what answers does accounting and audit theory provide to the following question: How should one properly audit a slush fund?

Frankly, I don’t have a clue how accounting and/or audit theory would answer that question. It’s been a long while since I taught auditing but based on what I do remember about the field, your question doesn’t make sense. Do you mean, how does one develop the needed level of assurance that the slush fund is only being used for nefarious, under-the-table purposes? Or are you talking about control issues such as whether the slush fund custodian is effectively keeping the existence of the fund a secret from others both inside and outside of the organization? One thing I have always tried to teach my students is determine what the real question is before you try to answer it. So, Luke, what is your real question? Regards, Bill

Response:

How should one properly audit a slush fund?

They would call the slush fund petty cash……. What to do with Osama Bin Laden? Capture him, force him to undergo a sex change operation, and send him back to Afghanistan as a woman. I’m allergic to spam. Remove "No Spam" from my e-mail address to respond. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Academia is a club all its own. Being principally a practitioner

Yes, there undeniably is a, sometimes huge, expectation gap, even widened by the fact that a deeper understanding of (any) scientific research requires a lot more and a bit different than familiarity with (per se very valuable) professional accounting lore. On the other hand the scholars should bear the need of popularization and clarity in mind. More discussion between the two sides is good and welcome. impression is that accounting academia generally do not and do not wish to address the most important issues our profession faces: professional ethical conflicts. Accounting theory today

Are you sure you have looked at the right places? I certainly am not a specialist in that particular subfield (mine is financial statement analysis research and quantitative methods), but I have good reasons to subject your blanket claim under friendly doubt. I predict with high probability that a couple of day’s intensive search of scientific journals’ databases might show otherwise. I would start such a search with journals like   Accounting, Organizations and Society   Advances in Accounting Behavioral Research   Behavioral Research in Accounting   Critical Perspectives on Accounting   Journal of Accounting Education    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  <<SNIP Accounting theory today is IMHO still like psychology before Freud. To clearly illustrate what I mean, what answers does accounting and audit theory provide to the following question: How should one properly audit a slush fund?  Frankly, I don’t have a clue how accounting and/or audit  theory would answer that question. It’s been a long while  since I taught auditing but based on what I do remember about  the field, your question doesn’t make sense. Do you mean, how  does one develop the needed level of assurance that the slush  fund is only being used for nefarious, under-the-table  purposes? Or are you talking about control issues such as  whether the slush fund custodian is effectively keeping the  existence of the fund a secret from others both inside and  outside of the organization?  One thing I have always tried to teach my students is  determine what the real question is before you try to answer  it. So, Luke, what is your real question?

Well, first of all some caveats: 1. I have not and do not operate slush funds. 2. I do not approve slush funds. Secondly, let us bear in mind: 1. Of the 150 or so countries in the world, it is impossible to    do business without operating slush funds in 80 % or more. 2. Slush funds operate as you know to pay tax free    "commissions", finance private activities of board members    and corporate officers and the like. 3. Slush funds correspond to tacit reserves in the corporation’s    balance sheet. The accounts understate cash and overstate    expenses. On the other hand, fiscal and other legal    liabilities potentially ensuing from slush funds are not    among the stated liabilites. 4. Corporations generally "feed" the slush funds using say one    or more of the following methods:    a) underinvoicing, the customer paying the balance into the       slush fund    b) requesting overinvoicing by suppliers, the balance going       into the slush fund    c) accepting invoices for fictitious goods and especially       services and settling by payments into slush funds 5. To my knowledge (please correct me if appropriate), the    US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (such things of course never    occur in the good old USofA), criminalises bribes only to    government officials, not, however, to officials of private    enterprises. Bill, your questions are on the right track. Let us assume you are an internal auditor of a multinationally active corporation which by necessity operates slush funds in a number of countries. (Either have slush funds or cease operations.) Management is concerned about "proper" operation of these slush funds, e. g.: 1. Are the slush funds really used for their intended purposes? 2. Are the "commissions" paid reasonable by local market    standards? 3. Are the running costs of the slush funds reasonable? 4. What risks and probable outcomes exist in case of discovery,    disclosure, blackmail, etc.? What are your options as an internal auditor? 1. Refuse to plan and / or perform the audit due to professional    ethical conflict according to the SPPIA (Standards of    Professional Practice of Internal Audit)? 2. Try and get the corporation to close down all slush funds and    cease operations in all markets which necessitate such funds? 3. Get outside counsel? 4. Escalate the ethical conflict and ultimately resign after    submission of an informative memorandum, fully aware that    nearly all comparable corporations engage in similar    practices, i. e. substantially narrowing your job market? 5. Blow the whistle e. g. by informing external audit? 6. Diligently perform the audit but qualifying your audit    opinion by expressing basic disapproval of slush funds? 7. Make recommendations concerning on-balance-sheet accounting    entries for the slush funds? In my experience academia generally do not, if at all, adequately address such issues which occur quite frequently in the real world. Like pre-Freudian psychology did not pay much attention to what went on below the waist. Reality is "messier" that most academic theories. Hope this clarifies, albeit in verbose mode, the questions. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp.

Response:

I recently resigned from my position as a staff accountant at a public accounting firm here in Houston, we did mainly audit work of small public companies.  Before that, I was internal at a small (30-50MM per year construction company) and I am back internal at a couple of the companies my previous firm audits (they have too little $$ to afford actual full-time controllers.) My education is BA in humanities, MBA in general business. I am heading back to college to pick up accounting hours in order to take the CPA exam and weighing my professional options.  One thing that I am considering is getting a PHD in accounting or a related field and going into teaching/ research.  I would be interested in a discussion regarding such a career, eg, benefits and drawbacks, how it is (or is not) fulfilling to those who are (or used to be) doing it, trends for the future needs, what are ongoing interesting research areas, etc.. — sarah clark When you forget yourself and are united with your task, that is your liberation.  If there is a milestone of realization on the path, well and good, but it is in the continued practice of uniting with your work that you turn the wheel of the Dharma for yourself, for the Sangha, and for the world.   — robert aitken

Response:

Try the CPAs-L listserver, they seem to congregate around there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently resigned from my position as a staff accountant at a public accounting firm here in Houston, we did mainly audit work of small public companies.  Before that, I was internal at a small (30-50MM per year construction company) and I am back internal at a couple of the companies my previous firm audits (they have too little $$ to afford actual full-time controllers.) My education is BA in humanities, MBA in general business. I am heading back to college to pick up accounting hours in order to take the CPA exam and weighing my professional options.  One thing that I am considering is getting a PHD in accounting or a related field and going into teaching/ research.  I would be interested in a discussion regarding such a career, eg, benefits and drawbacks, how it is (or is not) fulfilling to those who are (or used to be) doing it, trends for the future needs, what are ongoing interesting research areas, etc.. — sarah clark When you forget yourself and are united with your task, that is your liberation.  If there is a milestone of realization on the path, well and good, but it is in the continued practice of uniting with your work that you turn the wheel of the Dharma for yourself, for the Sangha, and for the world.   — robert aitken

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

<<SNIP I am heading back to college to pick up accounting hours in order to take the CPA exam and weighing my professional options.  One thing that I am considering is getting a PHD in accounting or a related field and going into teaching/ research.  I would be interested in a discussion regarding such a career, eg, benefits and drawbacks, how it is (or is not) fulfilling to those who are (or used to be) doing it, trends for the future needs, what are ongoing interesting research areas, etc..

Interesting question. Let me get back to you in a day or two. I’m in the middle of giving a test, which I’ll have to grade, and grading the Part I of 50 semester projects. I will say this. The biggest drawback for me is grading papers. I love teaching. I’ve learned to enjoy writing. I hate grading papers. Regards, Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<SNIP I am heading back to college to pick up accounting hours in order to take the CPA exam and weighing my professional options.  One thing that I am considering is getting a PHD in accounting or a related field and going into teaching/ research.  I would be interested in a discussion regarding such a career, eg, benefits and drawbacks, how it is (or is not) fulfilling to those who are (or used to be) doing it, trends for the future needs, what are ongoing interesting research areas, etc.. Interesting question. Let me get back to you in a day or two. I’m in the middle of giving a test, which I’ll have to grade, and grading the Part I of 50 semester projects. I will say this. The biggest drawback for me is grading papers. I love teaching. I’ve learned to enjoy writing. I hate grading papers. Regards, Bill

I think this is a great discussion topic. I was a part time prof at a junior college once – loved it. I also need a day or two get my thoughts in order. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

middle of giving a test, which I’ll have to grade, and grading the Part I of 50 semester projects. I will say this. The biggest drawback for me is grading papers. I love teaching. I’ve learned to enjoy writing. I hate grading papers.

Very true. However, later in a university career (if that is where one is headed) one steps up the ladder ever so slowly, but eventually gets to a point where one can choose what one wants to do in one’s teaching. I am finally fortunate enough to no more have to grade much papers. Instead I have chosen to concentrate most of my teaching on tutoring master’s theses and doctoral theses students. That is much more interesting and rewarding. But, indeed, I have a long university career behind me, and have had to go through the phase of too much grading myself in the earlier days. One word about tests. To some extent one can decide between putting one’s effort into the design of the test or the grading. Plan a very good test (much work, but infinitely more interesting), the boring grading will be a lot easier. That’s teaching. On the other hand, let’s not forget "publish or perish" rat race. That should not feel frightening but a positive challenge.    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

PHD in accounting or a related field and going into teaching/ research.  I would be interested in a discussion regarding such a career, eg, benefits and drawbacks, how it is (or is

Dear Sarah, Career planning is good and commendable, but it is nevertheless a the secondary issue. The primary question to ask yourself is this. Are you interested in doing research and fascinated by science. Well, the emphasis somewhat depends on, of course, are you vying for an eventual career teaching at a college or doing research at a university. Especially, if the latter, browse good scientific accounting journals (see the last line of my signature). If you like what you see, and effectively begin to feel a compelling desire to do the same, then this is the choice for you. Also test if things like this are of enough interest for you.  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/popsci.html  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/intd/resgui.html I have never regretted my own choice to become a scholar and scientist. This is what and who I want to be in my life. Would you foresee feeling the same way? If yes, go for it.    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

Try the CPAs-L listserver, they seem to congregate around there.

A breed apart from your angle? (note the smiley)    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

Question:

I wish I were able to handle my situation as healthily as you are.  I have a lot of overlap in my situation as well and I have this urge to make her admit that I was a good husband and that she was restless and uncommitted.  (I never actually act this out, but it’s how I feel.) She never communicated that she had issues with our relationship either and I had to keep asking her what the heck was going on because everything came to a screeching halt the last month of our marriage (sex, communicating, holding hands, going out, everything just stopped). She blamed me for everything when all along (well, at the end) she was just sleeping around with someone else.  She actually said the reason she was leaving me was because I made fun of her liking Disco.  Stupid and gullible as I am, I began blaming myself for being verbally abusive because a couple times I almost vomited when she played K.C. & the Sunshine Band in the house.  Is that sad or what?  It took me months to realize that I actually was a good guy and a committed, caring husband.  I’ll never let someone get me to hate myself again, so I’ve learned that at least. I am inspired by people like you, Janie, Rog, and Rodric who have such a healthy attitude towards these issues and hope to make myself better. Hang in there Kay! Rob — "In an interstellar burst, I’m back to save the universe!" Radiohead/Airbag

Response:

"The most effective way to silence our guilty conscience is to convince ourselves and others that those we have sinned against are indeed depraved creatures, deserving every punishment, even extermination.  We cannot pity those we have wronged, nor can we be indifferent toward them. We must hate and persecute them or else leave the door open to self-contempt."  – Eric Hoffer

Barbara, that is a wonderful quote.  It made my day! — "In an interstellar burst, I’m back to save the universe!" Radiohead/Airbag

Response:

I hate divorce!  I really don’t understand why people give up so easily.  I was a fool and believed "for better or for worse".

Welcome to Club Naive!  I was the same way.  There are people out there willing to work on a relationship as they should, but we were unlucky enough to find those who weren’t. Take care, Rob — "In an interstellar burst, I’m back to save the universe!" Radiohead/Airbag

Response:

five cars????? Oh, sorry…segue…. yeah, isn’t it something how they can find someone else so fast????  That’s the part I still find unsettling six months later.  women seem to need (in general) to process things longer… so sorry he blames you, but I don’t know that you can do anything about that.  Work on ignoring what he thinks.  Truly.   think of him as like the tides, or the sunrise…out of your control, and benign. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Steve Love the "fluffy" image! Yep, the reality of the situation for me is not comparable to his "unreality" world and I guess it never will be. I cannot do anything about his feelings for me and perhaps its time I stopped caring. Often wondered: If two people are talking and one says something to the other, but the other does not hear, did that person REALLY say anything???? He has told me recently that he stopped communicating with me because he couldn’t talk to me (if that’s not pure Irish-speak). This, of course, was my fault. I see communication as being each person’s own responsibility – if you cannot communicate with your partner you must resolve this, not simply hold your hands up, give up, and try talking to others instead. I recall countless occassions where we’d have conversations and then later he’d deny ever hearing me say what I did. Got me wondering whether I really did say it sometimes but then I snapped out of being manipulated that way and came to the conclusion that he had the problem of not listening, and not me of not telling. This is, I believe, the start of my marriage problems. When I began to see him as a fallable human being and not the God-like creature of loveliness that could do no wrong….. Even so, I still kept on trying. And trying. And trying. Bet it winds him up a treat to hear me say "I forgive you and wish you well" – there is no better extinguisher of hate than a bit of good ol’ fashioned love and peace. Thanks for the support Steve! Kay However, WHY WHY WHY does he still continue to blame ME for the relationship ending?? He claims he was never happy. That I was horrible to him for years. That I bitched on and on at him. This has helped to get it out of my system, and maybe I do really know why he blames me (its the self-guilt I hear you all shouting) but I just wanted to share my story with you and elicit some gratuitous sympathy and/or helpful advice. See, at the very least I am honest and upfront! Much Oblidged to ya Kay Ok, some gratuitous sympathy …. well maybe not since your situation is all too common and it hurts. But as to your question, what are his choices ? He can say "she was great, wonderful every thing I wanted, good mom, etc etc till I met fluffy. I think fluffy is better so I dumped my wife and broke up our home" OR he can say "She was a bitch, I was never happy, always complaining. It got so bad I just had to leave. I met fluffy, never knew someone could be so right". If you were him, which would you choose to say, if you could put reality aside ? Steve

Response:

Hi Barb Great quote! I do find myself fantasising sometimes that he phones me to apologise for being so mean to me, and that he acknowledges there were many times/years in the marriage when we were idyllically happy together, but that he changed what he wanted in life and I no longer fitted in. That I am OK and he is OK – we are/were just not OK together. Ain’t that the real truth? And then I wake up….and it seems less important to me than what I have to do that day/week/month. I find I am wanting this as a priority less and less as events progress. Probably, as you, this turning point will come (for him) when it means so little to me. However, given the extent to which he would need to grow as a person in order to get from where he is to where he would need to be, I think I would probably warmly welcome his apology, congratulate him for progressing as a mature individual, and, for the sake of our daughter, see if we can establish a closer friendship which is based on mutual respect. After all, one cannot respect themselves or others if one carries around so much guilt and hatred . Many Thanks Kay

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kay, I actually think I got the quote below from someone on this news group.  I’m certain the historical context is something more devastating than divorce.  Still, something about this resonated with my own divorce experience: "The most effective way to silence our guilty conscience is to convince ourselves and others that those we have sinned against are indeed depraved creatures, deserving every punishment, even extermination.  We cannot pity those we have wronged, nor can we be indifferent toward them. We must hate and persecute them or else leave the door open to self-contempt."  – Eric Hoffer By the way, the last few years of my marriage my ex blamed me for all our problems, in hateful and ugly language.  Once I was no longer subjected to this on a regular basis, it became clear that he was doing a lot of projecting.  Like you, I eventually forgave everyone (including myself) and moved on. In most cases, that might be The End.  But there came a time when my ex, who was going through a very rough period with the "other woman," apologized for his treatment of me.  I no longer needed to hear it — still, it felt good to know that he could acknowlege the wrongness of what he’d done and feel pain over it. Barb Hi – my first post (my first divorce too). My story is probably very common, and although I’ve struggled to come to terms with the events as they occur, hindsight has given me (and continues to give) a wiser and more philosophical perspective. Relationship started: Oct 1991 Married: Sept 1993 Separated: Feb 2001 Children: 1, 8yrs Assets: Loads – 1 house, 1 flat, timeshare, private company, loans, 5 cars, plus the usual marital chitlins Husband (it is he): unhappy for at least 12 months, grumpy, sulky, secretative and argumentative. Wife (I am she): committed, desperate to communicate (with hubby), accommodating (pushover?!) We agreed to split because he was making it sooooo obvious he didn’t want to spent time with me. He was working away from home, coming back weekdays and bitching on at me at weekends for not doing this, that, etc. I of course was also working full time and looking after our 8 yr old daughter, the house, the cat, etc. Both professionals, long hours, stress jobs. A WEEK after we agreed to split/separate (there is a difference, at least I believe we understood that word to mean different things), he starts a relationship with another girl. Within the next month or so, they are looking around for somewhere else to live, eventually moving in to rented flat in June 2001. They are still together. She is 13 years his junior, and only 15 yrs older than my daughter. Me – left to sort out practical matters. Left to tell child about split on my own. Joint bank account – he got. I setup new account. He pays mortgage, joint loan repayments and school fees, I pay all domestic bills – sucks all my salary to do this, am left with

Question:

Continue to squirm and squeal, Little Chrissie. No matter how much you bleat the fact remains that a study by PhDs out of the liberal bastion that is UC Berkeley have stated clearly and conclusively that there is NO proof of ANY significant harm in the long OR short term from legitimate spanking. And your extremist zealot attitude just cannot get around it and it sticks in your craw. Poor baby! <chuckle> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chris wrote: > Edward D (e…@conl.SPAM.net) wrote: > : Via eMail Chris wrote: > : >The use of a very small sample size and the removal of certain > : >children from the spanked group were both necessary manipulations > : >preventing this study from more clearly replicating the other > : >seven previous longitudinal studies of spanking, all of which found > : >a greater number of significant correlations with negative outcomes > : >than this one. > : Sample size is less significant than solid operational definitions and > : reasonable accounting for extraneous variables. The confound issue > : was addressed in Baumrind & Owens, and several posters have pointed > : out the fallacy of giving equal value to unequal variables. >         When the sample size is so small, and the number of controls is so > many, that only half a dozen or so children are in each cell, and the > nonspanked group consists of only three children, only the strongest > relationships will achieve statistical significance. >         For example, a coin which is designed to land "heads" more than > 50% of the time could be shown to be "fair" by flipping it five times and > then noting that the fact that it landed "heads" three of those times was > no a statistically significant result.  This is because random statistical > noise could easily account for this result with so few trials.  However, > if the coin were tossed five hundred times and landed heads three hundred > of those times, that would be a highly significant result, despite the > fact that the ratio of heads to tails is the same in both cases. >         The small sample size of Baumrind & Owens (2001) is most assuredly > a major concern, and would probably disqualify this paper from publication > if it were ever submitted to a peer reviewed journal (which as far as I > know, it will not be). > : Further; researchers who perform "…necessary manipulations [to] > : prevent[]…" accurate interpretation of results might rightly be accused > : of cooking the stats, i.e., intentional misrepresentation, i.e., lying. >         As far as I am aware, no one has accused Baumrind or Owens of > "lying" or "cooking the stats," and certainly not me.  If you believe I > have, then you have misunderstood my position. >         Baumrind has used a small sample size and removed the most damaged > spanked children from her sample in order to obtain a nonsignificant > result, which was then announced to the media as if it constituted a > scientific breakthrough.  Baumrind has an agenda. She is a spanking > apologist and there is nothing secret about that fact, nor is it a crime > for a researcher to have a strong opinion about the subject under study. > She has not committed any scientific fraud that I am aware of and I don’t > believe she is guilty of such. However, her study is designed in such a > way as to virtually guarantee that very little if any significant > correlations will be found, even if spanking does cause negative long term > effects in children.  That is my point.  I am not attacking her scientific > integrity or her character.  I have pointed out that this study does not > actually demonstrate that spanking is harmless, and that its findings > actually point in quite the opposite direction. > : >The major author, Baumrind, has been defending "aversives" as part of > : >her recommended parenting approach for decades, long before any of the > : >recent research implicating spanking was published. The mounting > : against >evidence spanking threatens to undermine her academic prestige. > : Baumrind is well-represented in child development literature; her > : conceptualization of parenting styles (1971) has, thus far, demonstrated > : workability over time- this is considerably more than just "academic > : prestige." If you want to argue that this study is kamikaze in an > : ideological war- well it’s possible, but i’ll bet it ain’t. >         I don’t know what you mean about her conceptualization of > parenting styles demonstrating workability.  I do think Baumrind has made > useful contributions to human knowledge, if that is what you are saying. >         Whatever Baumrind’s biases or agendas, the fact remains that this > new study adds still more weight to the arguments against spanking.  It > found no evidence of any form of measurable long term benefit, and did > find that the spanked group, as a whole, exhibited significantly elevated > rates of various negative long term effects.  I intend to cite this paper > in the future, along with earlier larger longitudinal studies, as evidence > that spanking is a risk factor in children’s lives. > Chris > REFERENCE > Baumrind, D & Owens, E.  2001.  "Does causally relevant research support a > blanket injunction against the use of disciplinary spanking?" Unpublished > paper presented to the 109th Annual Convention of the American > Psychological Association, Aug. 24th.

– ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

"Sample size is less significant than solid operational definitions and reasonable accounting for extraneous variables." True.  Moreover, it is much easier to increase the next sample size for a solid study than to redesign a flawed study.

Response:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:14:01 GMT, h…@interserv.com (Frank Bloater) wrote: >In her own words, she denies she is not a prospanker! She says "I am >not." >Frank Bloater

I goofed up on this last sentence above. I should have written: "In her own words, she denies she is a prospanker! She says "I am not." Frank

Response:

On 3 Sep 2001 18:14:38 GMT, cddu…@ouray.cudenver.edu (Chris) wrote: >    Yes, the authors of the study are prospankers, a fact which you >yourself pointed out earlier as if it proved that their data must surely >match their personal opinions.  And yes, Baumrind did provide the >newsmedia with useful soundbites.  These are facts of record.

No, Chris. the authors of the study are NOT prospankers! Have you read the study yet? I quote: "Although I do not regard spanking as less humane than other forms of punishment, I am not an advocate of spanking. Evangelicals such as Dr.James Dobson who advises spanking as an antidote to

Question:

Anyone hit with a major rate increase Jan 1st, 2000 from D&B?

Response:

Anyone hit with a major rate increase Jan 1st, 2000 from D&B?

This is scary because http://www.dnb.com is the largest and most comprehensive directory of business entities in the US. It will be necessary at some point for an open source or consortium to develop an alternative business directory to replace that awful, exploitive insititution which charges so much for access to its directory. Conducting business over the internet will require a directory and the only ones that work, today, are within the vertical industry marketplaces. You MUST read about those, at places like http://www.netmarketmakers.com/ or your favorite search engine, * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML accounting, WebLedgers, ASPs, GL dialtone, whatever it takes

Response:

Question:

Hello all, Have a problem with Simply Accounting. After installing a network and new computers, a client cannot access her simply accounting files. She went from a win95 machine to a win98 and now she gets the error message that her data has been updated and is not compatible. This is the message I got, any suggestions? Thanks. Chad Kumor 905 564 1055 EXT224 905 564 4768 FAX System Management Design

Response:

Without more information I can only guess, but following is a possibility: The software was updated on the Win95 computer and the data was converted to a newer format as a result.  Then the original software was installed on the Win98 computer and the previous update was not applied. I don’t use Simply regularly, so I’m not familiar with the frequency or methods of updating the software.  Even if I were, you haven’t said what version of Simply, so it’s impossible to be more specific. If you need more help, it will be useful if you provide more information – such as the version of Simply, and specify "Canadian" for readers who don’t recognize your telephone area code.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, Have a problem with Simply Accounting. After installing a network and new computers, a client cannot access her simply accounting files. She went from a win95 machine to a win98 and now she gets the error message that her data has been updated and is not compatible. This is the message I got, any suggestions? Thanks. Chad Kumor 905 564 1055 EXT224 905 564 4768 FAX System Management Design

Response:

I have simply on a network server simply to make sure it gets backed up, and also so that different people can get into it when they need, even though it only allows one at a time. anyway, think the response from Vernon is probably the answer, as its definately not anything to do with the network or running it under win98 or win2000 for that matter…

Hello all, Have a problem with Simply Accounting. After installing a network and new computers, a client cannot access her simply accounting files. She went from a win95 machine to a win98 and now she gets the error message that her data has been updated and is not compatible. This is the message I got, any suggestions? Thanks. Chad Kumor 905 564 1055 EXT224 905 564 4768 FAX System Management Design

Response:

When you have a report, or statement displayed, click on the file button (where you would go to chose print) and chose export from the menu.  Another menu box gives you several options as to type.  Close the xls format, and it will export to your choice of locations.  One word of caution, it suppresses cell headers, so you will need to go to tools and options to turn them back on.  Also, if you’re using Office ‘97, it exports into an older format, so you’ll need to save the sheet once you’ve opened it, to allow all the formatting available. Barb

Does anyone use this package by Accpac? I am trying to figure out how to export data to an Excel spreadsheet. Any help would be appreciated.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone use this package by Accpac? They recently announced they were stopping retail distribution and would only sell on the web. This makes them a dead end, so look for an alternative instead of investing time using them. Mike, Where do you get this info? Do you have a reference? I have seen you quote this a few times but find it hard to believe. The product, at least in Canada is sold in Computer City, London Drugs, Staples, etc. John

These stores have close-outs all the time. The story was in the Ft. Lauderdale Sun Sentinel business section. I believe the chain includes the Chicago Tribune or Sun Times. I will be glad if it is wrong and QB has more competition. I sold and supported BPI-Accpac for years. However, the Computer Associates web site says all their financial packages have 75,000 users. QuickBooks is certainly not the answer for many companies (weak inventory, no medical billing or multi-currency, no multi-company or divisions on the balance sheet, no find and replace, only 5 users at a time, etc.). However, its combination of  EASE OF USE, price, flexibility, power, ease of corrections, income tax integration, advertising, etc., gave it 2.500,000 registered users (86% of the market). Quicken and TurboTax have even more users and almost as much in market share, according to unchallenged Microsoft anti-trust testimony. Therefore, most of us feel you now need a good reason not to use them.   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.              World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

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Does anyone use this package by Accpac? I am trying to figure out how to export data to an Excel spreadsheet. Any help would be appreciated.

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Does anyone use this package by Accpac? I am trying to figure out how to export data to an Excel spreadsheet. Any help would be appreciated.

They recently announced they were stopping retail distribution and would only sell on the web. This makes them a dead end, so look for an alternative instead of investing time using them.   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.              World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

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How many companies today only sell on the web? Does that mean they are dead? I do not think so. Quickbooks is not the correct solution for many small businesses. If inventory or order entry is required then the first thing one should do when choosing a small business package is to cross off Quickbooks from their list. Allan Martin, CPA A Quickbooks and Accpac NJ Consultant – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone use this package by Accpac? I am trying to figure out how to export data to an Excel spreadsheet. Any help would be appreciated. They recently announced they were stopping retail distribution and would only sell on the web. This makes them a dead end, so look for an alternative instead of investing time using them.   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

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Mike There are hundreds of Accounting Packages on the market today. Just because the large retail chains only have shelf space for 3 or 4 of them does not mean the all the rest are dead. As a side bar I might add that two weeks ago Accpac International for the first time I can remember (I have been an Accpac Var for 15 years) mailed each of their VARS the latest version of Simply Accounting free of charge. How this will effect sales remains uncertain, but if the product is supported by their highly trained VAR network then there may still be life after retail. Allan Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone use this package by Accpac? I am trying to figure out how to export data to an Excel spreadsheet. Any help would be appreciated. They recently announced they were stopping retail distribution and would only sell on the web. This makes them a dead end, so look for an alternative instead of investing time using them.   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

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Does anyone use this package by Accpac? They recently announced they were stopping retail distribution and would only sell on the web. This makes them a dead end, so look for an alternative instead of investing time using them.

Mike, Where do you get this info? Do you have a reference? I have seen you quote this a few times but find it hard to believe. The product, at least in Canada is sold in Computer City, London Drugs, Staples, etc. John

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Mike There are hundreds of Accounting Packages on the market today. Just because the large retail chains only have shelf space for 3 or 4 of them does not mean the all the rest are dead. As a side bar I might add that two weeks ago Accpac International for the first time I can remember (I have been an Accpac Var for 15 years) mailed each of their VARS the latest version of Simply Accounting free of charge. How this will effect sales remains uncertain, but if the product is supported by their highly trained VAR network then there may still be life after retail. Allan Martin

This may have been the best way to get rid of excess retail-packaged inventory. mike block – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone use this package by Accpac? I am trying to figure out how to export data to an Excel spreadsheet. Any help would be appreciated. They recently announced they were stopping retail distribution and would only sell on the web. This makes them a dead end, so look for an alternative instead of investing time using them.   Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

  Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.              World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester 450+ page QB book/free updates $10 QB add-ons http://www.blocktax.com/       Ft Lauderdale FL 954-566-7540

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Question:

Doesn’t anybody care about this stuff?

Todd, Speaking strictly for myself – I don’t know enough about the underlying technology to debate this issue on the terms that it is being presented. I would participate in a less technical discussion. Do you think this isn’t really going to happen?

That is a very good question.  The logical place for web accounting to start and flourish would be with firms that have multiple locations and central accounting.  I would be interested to know what such firms are doing. I view some redundancy as functionally necessary, and even desirable. Jim Hudspeth, CPA Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I was just reflecting today on the fact that all accounting is really quadruple entry.  You have double entry books, and one side of each entry is really a snapshot of one side of the other guy’s books.  For example, your receivable is equal to his payable. In fact, the whole invoice in your books is a purchase in his books. As we enter the age of web accounting, our books will increasingly equal the books of the other guy automatically (and our cash will equal the bank) since every transaction will be executed thru the net.  You will have to work hard, to make things not equal. I wonder how long it will take before the transaction table moves out to powerful hosts on the internet, and each user just has a single entry books.  A set of indexes really. When you evaluate your web accounting provider, you must avoid re-creating the problem of quadruple-entry accounting, OK?  Where everybody has a totally redundant copy of everybody else’s credits stored in our debits. Whenever you have data duplication, you always have bad results: Corrections are posted only to one side not the other, efforts are invested in one then the other, reconciliation always requires work, neither is ever correct, etc. etc. just like todays’ standalone! Let’s go direct to integrated global-entry, where each transaction is stored EXACTLY ONE PLACE, on a trusted third party host, and both parties have certain permissions to view it.   Both parties’ accounting systems will consist mostly of a set of foreign keys into the transaction base. I wish you all would consider the benefits of intercompany journal bus architecture.    http://www.GLDialtone.com/journalbus.htm  http://www.GLDialtone.com/hypercub.htm  http://www.GLDialtone.com/nai.htm Doesn’t anybody care about this stuff?   Do you think this isn’t really going to happen? * Todd F. Boyle CPA    http://www.GLDialtone.com/ * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107 * XML Accounting Web ledger ASP netledger, GL Dialtone, whatever it takes.

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Question:

We did use the easy step interview and did set the company up as a nonprofit in QuickBooks.  I tried what you said and figured out how customize the reports to read "Statement of Position", etc and then "memorize" the report.  So, that’s progress!  I’ll  email you in a few days with more details.  Thanks for your help!   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, Forgive a late entrant into this thread, and the "101" level questions, but I may have solutions with a little more understanding. As I can infer form the reply above, someone istrying to configure quickbooks to handle a non-profit company. Correct? 1. did the original poster go into the easy-step interview or company info and convert the business type to non-profit? – QB 6.0 has default chart of accounts, item lists , etc for non-profit companies. You need to select that type of company when you work through the easy step interview. 2. On the issue of reports, using the standard reports as starting points, use customize and filters to create the reports you need. As I said, I am making some assumptions on the original question here. If you send me an e-mail with more details I can try to be more specific. I have quite a few non-profit clients whom I have set up quickbooks for. I might have already created what you need, and can share the how-to with you. Steve — +++ KENTE SYSTEMS +++ Technology Consulting Services:   +++ +++ Web/Internet Services +++ Computer Systems Services +++ +++     Non-Profit Grant/Funding Services & Support     +++ +++ "Technology should make money not just cost money!" +++

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Another late entry but I would suggest you take a look at the Fund E-Z software.  They are in White Plains and also have a sales person in Arizona.   The cost of the basic software package is about $1,500- G/L, A/P, A/R, etc. I facilitate two user’s groups, one in Westchester, New York and one in Manhattan as many of my not-for-profit clients are using the software.  I don’t sell the software so you’d have to call them directly at 914-636-0900.  They also have a web site where you can download a demo version.  Take a look. Wes Murphy

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Anyone know of any accounting software packages that are designed for use by a not-for-profit organization?  Even a sample not-for-profit chart of accounts that works with QuickBooks would be helpful.  There are definite differences in the way not-for-profit books are supposed to be maintained, but we can’t seem to find any software (QuickBooks, Peachtree, etc) that addresses these differences. Thanks.

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Blackbaud and MIP are two non-profit accounting programs. Wendy

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Anyone know of any accounting software packages that are designed for use by a not-for-profit organization?  Even a sample not-for-profit chart of accounts that works with QuickBooks would be helpful.  There are definite differences in the way not-for-profit books are supposed to be maintained, but we can’t seem to find any software (QuickBooks, Peachtree, etc) that addresses these differences. Thanks.

Hello! The issue of the nonprofit world is how to handle unrestricted, temp. restricted and perm. restricted net assets.  If you can code a segment within the accounting code for these net assets/funds and then report on them, you really do not need a non-profit program per se. You can code unrestricted fund as being 0, temp.restricted as being 1 and permanently restricted as being 2.  The key is for you to be able to report on these segments, so the reporting function of the software is the most important part of the deal. If you are dealing with encumbrances and other non-profit issues, then you may consider a nonprofit package but I think that you can probably use one of the "regular" ones and still do what you want it to do. Please e-mail me if you have any questions! Hope this helps Ab Smith

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One thing to keep in mind is that many not-for-profits are now being required to begin providing financial reporting as if they were a for-profit business.  From what I have heard from some of our NFP clients this is an area that many of the dedicated NFP packates are falling short or are behind the times.  I am not sure what your budget is, but we have had a lot of success installing Great Plains Dynamics in NFPs.  The chart of account is flexible enough to allow you to do fund accounting in it (there are 3rd party add-ons as well), and the reporting is strong enough to let you report as if you were a for-profit business. Alan Alan C. Whitehouse The Resource Group Great Plains Reseller & Solutions Developer 1400 Talbot Rd. S., Suite 301 Renton, WA 98055 (425) 277-4760 http://www.resgroup.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of any accounting software packages that are designed for use by a not-for-profit organization?  Even a sample not-for-profit chart of accounts that works with QuickBooks would be helpful.  There are definite differences in the way not-for-profit books are supposed to be maintained, but we can’t seem to find any software (QuickBooks, Peachtree, etc) that addresses these differences. Thanks.

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The Philanthropy Journal Online mentions a handbook that compares non-profit accounting software — http://www.pj.org/law/nfcbook0416.cfm The handbook is available from — http://www.nonprofitfinancial.org/page23.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of any accounting software packages that are designed for use by a not-for-profit organization?  Even a sample not-for-profit chart of accounts that works with QuickBooks would be helpful.  There are definite differences in the way not-for-profit books are supposed to be maintained, but we can’t seem to find any software (QuickBooks, Peachtree, etc) that addresses these differences. Thanks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks! You are certainly right — The issue of "unrestricted, temporarily restricted, and permanently restricted" net assets IS one of the main differences between nonprofit and for-profit accounting.  We are also supposed to produce a Statement of Position, Statement of Activities, and Statement of Cash Flows which are similar to some of the standard for-profit financial statements — but are not the same.  We would also like to be able to produce reports by "program area". We’re using QuickBooks 6.0 right now.  We think we can figure out how to create reports by "program area" by using QuickBooks "classes".  We haven’t figured out a way to code the different funds as 0, 1, 2 in QuickBooks as you suggested and it may not be possible in QuickBooks. And we haven’t found any way to get the QuickBooks Balance Sheet report to be titled Statement of Financial Position, etc. If someone could develop such a thing as a QuickBooks Chart of Accounts Template for Nonprofits, I think there would be a market for it. We did get some feedback about other nonprofit software (Blackbaud, MIP, etc) but they are way out of our price range right now (most are about $5,000 while QuickBooks is about $100).  I know, we get what we pay for. Hello! The issue of the nonprofit world is how to handle unrestricted, temp. restricted and perm. restricted net assets.  If you can code a segment within the accounting code for these net assets/funds and then report on them, you really do not need a non-profit program per se. You can code unrestricted fund as being 0, temp.restricted as being 1 and permanently restricted as being 2.  The key is for you to be able to report on these segments, so the reporting function of the software is the most important part of the deal. If you are dealing with encumbrances and other non-profit issues, then you may consider a nonprofit package but I think that you can probably use one of the "regular" ones and still do what you want it to do. Please e-mail me if you have any questions! Hope this helps Ab Smith

Hi Guys, Forgive a late entrant into this thread, and the "101" level questions, but I may have solutions with a little more understanding. As I can infer form the reply above, someone istrying to configure quickbooks to handle a non-profit company. Correct? 1. did the original poster go into the easy-step interview or company info and convert the business type to non-profit? – QB 6.0 has default chart of accounts, item lists , etc for non-profit companies. You need to select that type of company when you work through the easy step interview. 2. On the issue of reports, using the standard reports as starting points, use customize and filters to create the reports you need. As I said, I am making some assumptions on the original question here. If you send me an e-mail with more details I can try to be more specific. I have quite a few non-profit clients whom I have set up quickbooks for. I might have already created what you need, and can share the how-to with you. Steve — +++ KENTE SYSTEMS +++ Technology Consulting Services:   +++ +++ Web/Internet Services +++ Computer Systems Services +++ +++     Non-Profit Grant/Funding Services & Support     +++ +++ "Technology should make money not just cost money!" +++

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Question:

It would help if you had a location for jobs you post.

Compile data as required for financial, statutory and management reports. Implement AR and GL processes.  Compile data for financial reporting.  Post revenue and costs.  Consolidate results in the GL.  Manage all apsects of the time and materials billing process within the consulting group (AR, track commissions, process invoices, chase cash and provide reporting to consulting group and others).  Collaborate with Finance and Administration staff to integrate and support the Order Processing and Accounting processes. Required:  Corporate Finance or Accounting experience in a software environment. Strong accounting and analytical methodology.  Emphasis in AR processing (invoice entry, preparation, distribution, cash application and reconciliation) including chasing cash.  Proficient Excel, Word and PowerPoint ability.  Working knowledge of integrated Accounting software packages.  Experience in a "time and materials" billing environment using a time and materials application software package strongly preferred.  3 years directly related financial and financial project support experience in a time and materials billing environment. Experience in a "time and materials" billing environment using a time and materials applications software package strongly preferred.  Extensive AR Accountant expreience in all aspects of the sales and collections cycle. Business finance accounting.

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Compile data as required for financial, statutory and management reports. Implement AR and GL processes.  Compile data for financial reporting.  Post revenue and costs.  Consolidate results in the GL.  Manage all apsects of the time and materials billing process within the consulting group (AR, track commissions, process invoices, chase cash and provide reporting to consulting group and others).  Collaborate with Finance and Administration staff to integrate and support the Order Processing and Accounting processes. Required:  Corporate Finance or Accounting experience in a software environment. Strong accounting and analytical methodology.  Emphasis in AR processing (invoice entry, preparation, distribution, cash application and reconciliation) including chasing cash.  Proficient Excel, Word and PowerPoint ability.  Working knowledge of integrated Accounting software packages.  Experience in a "time and materials" billing environment using a time and materials application software package strongly preferred.  3 years directly related financial and financial project support experience in a time and materials billing environment. Experience in a "time and materials" billing environment using a time and materials applications software package strongly preferred.  Extensive AR Accountant expreience in all aspects of the sales and collections cycle. Business finance accounting.

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Question:

if i were a man, i would be insulted by this.

You can be insulted anyway!  Yay!  Everyone join in! i thought you guys hated these generalizations?

Are you kidding?  Have you been listening lately?  It’s apparent that some men on this group really get off on the notion that we live in a world where they are so potent, so dripping with sex, that they are simply not to be trusted.  Add to that fantasy mix a good bit of territorialism, that distrust of other men, and they’re pushing some sort of (not noble) savage myth. Not that I have anything against territorialism.  When you’ve actually got someone around, there’s a nice little thrill in "protecting" them that can put you back in touch with your roots.  Marking territory can be a good thing. Otherwise, it just looks silly. cp

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A more valid reason is that I think the emotional balance of a female and a male are different.  To quit therapy I talked to my therapist LOGICALLY.  I hate logic, but sometimes it is all you can hold onto.

: I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female : patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female : patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with : at least a couple of them. : — :    Sincerly, :        SLEEPY  <yawn : "You know what your problem is baby?….no one’s :         ever given you the Aunt Jemima treatment." :                             Bill Murray- Stripes — *It’s because I come from a long line of Southern psychotics and an  environment where madness is currency and conversation is blood  sport.  – Actress Elizabeth Ashley

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I have no idea how many therapists, male or female, cross boundaries in a bad way, but the thread did get me wondering. I’ve done a fair amount of teaching and there were a lot of teacher-student affairs everywhere, and the teachers were almost always men. There were exceptions but they were considered very weird, while people more or less accepted the male teacher-female student pattern: it may have broken the rules but it didn’t seem totally bizarre to people. [I don't agree with this way of thinking; I was very much damaged by marrying a guy who taught at my high school.]   I have a feeling that power relations between the sexes are still such that it seems to some people  much more natural for a man to cross a boundary such as teacher-student, doctor-patient, whatever.

On the other hand it seems much more _acceptable_ for a woman in authority to cross the line. Does it seem creepy for a 30 year old male teacher to have sex with a 14 year old girl? Does it seem less creepy for a 30 year old female teacher to have sex with a 14 year old boy? To many in society it does. Did you hear about that highly publicized case in Washington state where the female teacher – married with kids – had an affair with her 12 (?) year old student, had a baby by him, went to jail, got out and got pregnant by him _again_? So yes there are most definitely exceptions. As others have pointed out male therapists must be frightened to death these days even to have an accusation of ethical impropriety with a female patient. Most are likely very careful not to let this happen. You can bet you are a lot safer with a male therapist now than you were 20 or 30 years ago. No I am not so naive to think it male therapists never get inappropriately involved with female patients – of course this happens. Yet I am sure it happens both ways, male therapists with female patients and female therapist with male patients. Why are you (sorry – original poster I mean) so upset? Because it happens more often with the male therapists? Because maybe – I am just guessing – the ratio is 70-30 male-female transgressions? I also imagine there are more male therapists than females and more female patients than male patients. Might this skew the occurrences a little? God, just a couple of years ago I was in a therapy group *for women* who were all seeing doctors at one hospital. It was run by a husband-and-wife team. The husband was the only man in the room and everyone deferred to him. He was called ‘Doctor,’ in fact he called himself ‘doctor’ while his wife was referred to by her first name. Nobody paid any attention to her at all. I told my therapist I didn’t want to go any more and she laughed and said she understood but I could tell it hadn’t occurred to her that this might be a problem at all.

Do you know for sure why he chose to be ‘Doctor’ and she did not? Perhaps this was entirely intentional. Maybe they decided the group must have only one leader and he is more comfortable in that role? Maybe they play it as ‘good cop, bad cop’ with one the authority figure, one the sympathetic therapist you can talk to? How do you know for sure til you ask? BBJ — To email me, remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address above or email me at "bobbillyjoe" -at- "hotmail" -dot- "com"

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I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with at least a couple of them.

Who does this show less respect for, the therapists who you think can’t keep it in their pants, or the patients you see as helpless victims?

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Ok…I’m not above criticism. I give it 5 months.And in that 5 months I gaurentee that someone in here will be telling a "horrible" thing that some nasty male therapist did.

And in five months perhaps we will hear about the ‘horrible’ things that some nasty female therapist did. What is your point? BBJ — To email me, remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address above or email me at "bobbillyjoe" -at- "hotmail" -dot- "com"

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Most of the time women think men are pigs.Then the very fucking moment you try to get on their side,you still haven’t done any fuckin’ good. sleepy

I remember the time, in my Islam class in grad school, when the prof–a Mulim–pointed out that the reason Muslim women wear those scarves and veils and all is because men might not be able to control themselves if they see the actual shape of a woman’s body. He pointed out that while in the West this is seen as oppressive of women, it really shows a low opinion of men.  So, apparently, Islam thinks men are pigs.  Officially. — Our lives begin to end the day we are silent about things that matter.                                         Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Most of the time women think men are pigs.Then the very fucking moment you try to get on their side,you still haven’t done any fuckin’ good. sleepy I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with at least a couple of them. if i were a man, i would be insulted by this. you imply that men — all men — have no control over their libidos. i thought you guys hated these generalizations?

–    Sincerly,        SLEEPY  <yawn "You know what your problem is baby?….no one’s         ever given you the Aunt Jemima treatment."                             Bill Murray- Stripes

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Are you kidding ? That’s all I am,100% logic.No joke,if it’s not logical I get very confused.I hate it sometimes. SLEEPY  aka  Spock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A more valid reason is that I think the emotional balance of a female and a male are different.  To quit therapy I talked to my therapist LOGICALLY.  I hate logic, but sometimes it is all you can hold onto. : I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female : patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female : patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with : at least a couple of them. : — :    Sincerly, :        SLEEPY  <yawn : "You know what your problem is baby?….no one’s :         ever given you the Aunt Jemima treatment." :                             Bill Murray- Stripes — *It’s because I come from a long line of Southern psychotics and an  environment where madness is currency and conversation is blood  sport.  – Actress Elizabeth Ashley

–    Sincerly,        SLEEPY  <yawn "You know what your problem is baby?….no one’s         ever given you the Aunt Jemima treatment."                             Bill Murray- Stripes

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So, apparently, Islam thinks men are pigs.  Officially. Ergo, the surprisingly low rate of cannibalism?

Yep. Muslims can’t eat pork. I wonder if this effects their sexual practices, too. — Our lives begin to end the day we are silent about things that matter.                                         Martin Luther King, Jr.

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So, apparently, Islam thinks men are pigs.  Officially.

Ergo, the surprisingly low rate of cannibalism?

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Yep. Muslims can’t eat pork. I wonder if this effects their sexual practices, too. Keeps the swineherds pure?? I’ve always wondered, with these religions that don’t allow The Other White Meat–why do they have all the pigs around in the first place?  Like, er, Gadarene guy, the one with the demons, where’d all the pigs come from? These are the sorts of questions that got me beat up in Sunday School.

I’ve wondered the same.  Or just how far did the prodigal son have to travel to get that job feeding pigs.  I’m guessing these issues were covered in seminary, but on a day when I was too depressed to go to class. — Our lives begin to end the day we are silent about things that matter.                                         Martin Luther King, Jr.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, apparently, Islam thinks men are pigs.  Officially. Ergo, the surprisingly low rate of cannibalism? Yep. Muslims can’t eat pork. I wonder if this effects their sexual practices, too. Keeps the swineherds pure??

I’ve always wondered, with these religions that don’t allow The Other White Meat–why do they have all the pigs around in the first place?  Like, er, Gadarene guy, the one with the demons, where’d all the pigs come from? These are the sorts of questions that got me beat up in Sunday School.

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Ok…I’m not above criticism. I give it 5 months.And in that 5 months I gaurentee that someone in here will be telling a "horrible" thing that some nasty male therapist did. I swear,some of the people in here don’t know what they really think or beleive in.One day it’s this and the next it’s the other. Some people in here post before they even think. Oh well,who gives a shit….right? I mean everyone who’s in here is messed up emotionally anyway. I never fit in anyway. sleepy

I know there are therapists who do this sort of thing.  Fortunately, they’re in the minority.  The therp I’m seeing now keeps pointing out how lucky I am that my old therp was ethical, because I was so (pick one–in love, infatuated, in transference, sex crazed) that a less ethical therp could have done real damage. But the one I was seeing wanted his license more than he wanted to do anything with me.  (And then there’s all that stuff about my having been abused as a kid, and that screwing up my relationships with men in authority or with men in general, yada, yada, yada). On the hotline at work, we haven’t had a complaint about a therp doing anything sexual since I’ve been there (a shitload of complaints about violations of confidentiality, tho), but we get calls about male gyndocs doing creepy stuff all the time. So, some guys can’t control it when they have easy access. if it’s true with gyns, it’s probably true with therps, I suppose. — Our lives begin to end the day we are silent about things that matter.                                         Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Ok…I’m not above criticism. I give it 5 months.And in that 5 months I gaurentee that someone in here will be telling a "horrible" thing that some nasty male therapist did. I swear,some of the people in here don’t know what they really think or beleive in.One day it’s this and the next it’s the other. Some people in here post before they even think. Oh well,who gives a shit….right? I mean everyone who’s in here is messed up emotionally anyway. I never fit in anyway. sleepy I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with at least a couple of them. if i were a man, i would be insulted by this. you imply that men — all men — have no control over their libidos. i thought you guys hated these generalizations?

–    Sincerly,        SLEEPY  <yawn "You know what your problem is baby?….no one’s         ever given you the Aunt Jemima treatment."                             Bill Murray- Stripes

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I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with at least a couple of them.

Well, I had a male therp I would have "done it" with in a New York minute, but he never would have done anything so unprofessional.  Damn it. — Our lives begin to end the day we are silent about things that matter.                                         Martin Luther King, Jr.

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I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with at least a couple of them. —    Sincerly,        SLEEPY  <yawn "You know what your problem is baby?….no one’s         ever given you the Aunt Jemima treatment."                             Bill Murray- Stripes

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Ok…I’m not above criticism. I give it 5 months.And in that 5 months I gaurentee that someone in here will be telling a "horrible" thing that some nasty male therapist did.

OK I decided NOT to respond to your original post.  But this I just can’t take In five months when… What the hell business is that of yours??? Especiall trying to predict it now?  Do you know which ASD poster will be involved? How about Which therapist(S)–there surely *must* be more than one? Probably all of them right?  How about male dentists?  Hair styists?  Accountants? They all must have something gonig on with their clients… End of line. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –I swear,some of the people in here don’t know what they really think or beleive in.One day it’s this and the next it’s the other. Some people in here post before they even think. Oh well,who gives a shit….right? I mean everyone who’s in here is messed up emotionally anyway. I never fit in anyway. sleepy I’m sorry,but I just don’t trust male therapists with female patients.Just how I feel. Too many feelings flying around. Female patient after female patient,come on you know something is going on with at least a couple of them. if i were a man, i would be insulted by this.

I wasn’t until SLEEPY’S second Post you imply that men — all men — have no control over their libidos. i thought you guys hated these generalizations?

– Happy trials – hoodornament ICQ  #13281083  Sometimes I feel brilliant and  Sometimes I feel as stupid as a hoodornament.  A hood ornament is a stupid, weak piece of metal.  It serves NO useful purpose.  It obstructs vision.  It gets in the way.  Yet if it’s damaged or broken off,  the overall value of the car decreases.  It has potential for causing harm,  but no corresponding potential for good.  Hence the perfect handle for the way I feel  when I’m in a depressed state.

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I’ve always wondered, with these religions that don’t allow The Other White Meat–why do they have all the pigs around in the first place?

Ethics vanish when potential for profit comes into the picture. Or maybe it’s that profit is often the ‘highest good.’ — bev . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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I remember the time, in my Islam class in grad school, when the prof–a Mulim–pointed out that the reason Muslim women wear those scarves and veils and all is because men might not be able to control themselves if they see the actual shape of a woman’s body. He pointed out that while in the West this is seen as oppressive of women, it really shows a low opinion of men.  So, apparently, Islam thinks men are pigs.  Officially.

However, most people don’t know that modesty is also required for Muslim men.  There is a great deal of oppression of women around the world, but there are cultural contexts that can give us a more textured view of things. Minx, provider of additional information — learn to forget that passionate music. It will end. / True singing is a different breath, about / nothing. –Rainer Maria Rilke

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Most of the time women think men are pigs.

and we want to get naked and roll around in the mud with them. Mary Beth

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