Question:

There’s some sort of accounting glitch that’s resulting in many people’s balances being doubled or in some cases tripled.  Supposedly they’re working on it, just a heads-up to email billing if this hit you. Apparently Live Help is telling people to email support.

At eBay? This was a story about Wal-Mart for charges made on March 31st. http://www.finextra.com/fullstory.asp?id=11578 jim menning

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There’s some sort of accounting glitch that’s resulting in many people’s balances being doubled or in some cases tripled.  Supposedly they’re working on it, just a heads-up to email billing if this hit you. Apparently Live Help is telling people to email support. — "Be advised that although this is actually a live broadcast and is being sent out at this very moment, it is quite possible that it might arrive tomorrow, right now, or perhaps yesterday."

A friend’s bill was doubled to $700 the other day.  She was quite concerned but called (powerseller) and eBay told her it was a glitch, not worry about it.  I suggested she double check the amount automatically withdrawn from her account for her bill though ’cause who knows if the glitch will be fixed by then.  Mine is fine, I still owe the huge sum of $15.  :)  Annette – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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There’s some sort of accounting glitch that’s resulting in many people’s balances being doubled or in some cases tripled.  Supposedly they’re working on it, just a heads-up to email billing if this hit you. Apparently Live Help is telling people to email support. — "Be advised that although this is actually a live broadcast and is being sent out at this very moment, it is quite possible that it might arrive tomorrow, right now, or perhaps yesterday."

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Question:

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Just what kind of accounting class are you taking? There are many levels of accounting classes. Are you even taking a class or wanting information on how to keep books for your business? Please be more specific in your question. Janice

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Actually I like your subject line except I can improve upon it. Re: NeuroticReport-Science Well that is what we got around here what with all of the amalgamitis scare. Hey! Whatcha think about asbestos poisoning? Real or just below mercury scare in harm? Joel What comes from exposure to Hg. Vanja Karlsson Sweden. NeuroReport Retrograde degeneration of neurite membrane structural integrity of nerve growth cones following in vitro exposure to mercury Christopher C.W. Leong, Naweed I. Syed, and Fritz L. Lorscheider

– Joel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies: <You fill it in

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What comes from exposure to Hg. Vanja Karlsson

Do you mean exposrue to Hg alone or exposure to Hg plus exposure to Jan Drew? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sweden. NeuroReport Retrograde degeneration of neurite membrane structural integrity of nerve growth cones following in vitro exposure to mercury Christopher C.W. Leong, Naweed I. Syed, and Fritz L. Lorscheider Contact: Dr Fritz L. Lorscheider, Faculty of Medicine, Department of Physiology and Biophysics, University of Calgary, 3330 Hospital Drive NW, Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 4N1 NeuroReport Volume 12, number 4, 733-737 This study showed that mercury can cause neurodegeneration in the brain central ring ganglia of the snail Lymnaea stagnalis. The resultant defective microtubule assembly and the aggregation of neurofibrils observed can also be found in the brains of Alzheimer

Question:

We are preparing for our first A.G.M under a new constitution. One of the things that was changed in the constitution was to have the Pres and Treas retire one year, and the VicePres and Sec the other year – the idea is to keep some continutity within the executive. Anyway, when this was written in Jan, I thought the statement could not have been clearer. Now that we are interpreting it for the A.G.M someone looked at it differently. To me, (no finance/accounting background), this is the year 2002 and is therefore an even numbered year as far as the A.G.M is concerned. Someone else pointed out that the A.G.M is for 2003, and should therefore be considered an odd numbered year, even though the meeting is being held in 2002. The meeting will be held in Sept, what are your thoughts? Is it an odd year, or an even one?

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Interesting question.  The AGM not only reviews and reports on the year just finished, but also presents budgets and strategies for the new year. So I guess you could take your pick. My approach is that it’s basically a reporting meeting, so the year just finished decides if it’s odd or even. — Ken Russell Sydney

| We are preparing for our first A.G.M under a new constitution. One of the | things that was changed in the constitution was to have the Pres and Treas | retire one year, and the VicePres and Sec the other year – the idea is to keep | some continutity within the executive. | | Anyway, when this was written in Jan, I thought the statement could not have | been clearer. Now that we are interpreting it for the A.G.M someone looked at | it differently. | | To me, (no finance/accounting background), this is the year 2002 and is | therefore an even numbered year as far as the A.G.M is concerned. Someone else | pointed out that the A.G.M is for 2003, and should therefore be considered an | odd numbered year, even though the meeting is being held in 2002. | | The meeting will be held in Sept, what are your thoughts? Is it an odd year, or | an even one?

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Question:

I don’t entirely agree but I’m haven’t checked criteria to be sure I’m on firm ground criteria wise regarding simultaneous inventory counts in all cases of the same item.  If the client has stand-alone tanks of fuel oil in Houston and similar fuel oil in Atlanta, I think I can make reasonable argument to count them at different times. Oh? How about railroad tank cars of cotten seed oil?

Apparently Tippy doesn’t recall (or never heard of) Billy Sol Estes and the cottenseed oil scandal. He’s also seemingly unaware that the usefulness of oil pipelines approaches that of railroad tracks. Regards, Bill

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Oh? How about railroad tank cars of cotten seed oil? Apparently Tippy doesn’t recall (or never heard of) Billy Sol Estes and the cottenseed oil scandal.

As I recall, the tanks in the "salad oil" swindle were fixed tanks in a tank farm.  The "inventory" port at the top of the tank had been rigged with a pipe containing oil at a level consistent with the inventory records but the rest of the tank contained water.  The scandal also involved a lot of valuable pieces of paper — warehouse receipts for salad oils torn from the back of the prenumbered book — which the banking industry accepted as evidence that there was a physical commodity to be seized in repayment of any money the banker advanced.

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/////"The World Cycle audit team, headed by Armatta, performed an audit which expressed the opinion that the financial statements were fairly stated but included a going concern qualification because of World Cycle

Question:

This also applies to certain esoteric  factors like Hypsometric tints used in Forestry

A skilful riposte, sir. (You sure we didn’t have the same bastardry instructor?)

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G’day Fighter, By the way, the FA-18E only corrects for all the problems of the F/A-18A/C. There is no real jump in technology or capability. Give me an explanation of quantity over quality??

I believe he meant a larger qauntity (70 to 80) of lower qaulity aircraft such as F-18E/F versus 40 or so higher qaulity aircraft [presumably with some specilist rather than multi-role types]. F-18 E/F performance, reliabilty etc.. are greatly improved over our A/B versions, certainly not bleeding edge of technology, but by no means at the tail end of it either. ‘course, you may have a different view on the basis of priviledged information? Cheers Paul Saccani Perth, Western Australia.

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snip F/A-18A/C               23,000 pounds      51,900 F/A-18E/F                30,500 pounds      66,000 pounds snip The bottom line is about 7,000 pounds more load available on the E/F. If that isn’t additional capability, please tell me what is.

More importantly, that exta 7000 pounds is almost all usable for stores. Cheers Paul Saccani Perth, Western Australia.

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Dumb question 2/11 Instead of a super expensive delivery platform. Would not the money be better spent on better weapons ( stores) and a Small number of Very high tech platforms acknowledging that it costs almost as much to "support" 10 as 30  higher tech platforms. Or how about "wet leasing" whole combat squadrons . Sort of high tech merc’s maybe sandline could go upmarket. LOL. But seriously  why not cost share with Sweden and Denmark  and help with offset . Keeps the Brits us on their  competitive toes. Bit TIC but has it ever been explored. Say a pact With Say KIWI Canada and OZ along with FIJI,Tonga, Cook Islands even Kiribas PNG . May also halt agro agricultural practises. EG Wheat salmon  some minerals. Canada 20 million People NZ         04 OZ        20 Fiji & pac group say 11 million Selected Scandinavian  ( milk butter wheat cartel) offsets and technology /production transfer  (siemens to name just one ) Singapore and perhaps Malaysia ( tough at this time) But Brunei must be an option Thailand ( we could share that pocket carrier they cant afford) There may just be a deal in here some where. Along with some African elements like Kenya & Nigeria not to mention South Africa  another trading problem may be counter balanced  ( just look at the Coal and gold production and they have  similar climate and we Gave them gum trees and merino for good measure and 4000 miles less lines of transport so make friends now or they will hook into our trade soon.  Defence co-operation and Rotation may assist  in may ways. Plus gives a nice bulk buy discount on the national visa card ( just in case no ones noticed the deficit trend of late) Off the wall or is it ? PC — http://members.tripod.com/~philcleaver/list.html

snip F/A-18A/C               23,000 pounds      51,900 F/A-18E/F                30,500 pounds      66,000 pounds snip The bottom line is about 7,000 pounds more load available on the E/F. If that isn’t additional capability, please tell me what is.

More importantly, that exta 7000 pounds is almost all usable for stores. Cheers Paul Saccani Perth, Western Australia.

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Greetings Ted, I think you misread the spirit and post entirely in this matter. Thank goodness its not always me grin. 1 Its not about any sort of control at all. Its about courtesy and the consensus reached by many  in the questions/thread FAQ. Where it appeared that lengthy NON aviation and ADF  , Political  stuff was not appropriate. 2 I think Mssrs, Webber, Patterson and uncle Jacko + some others that I cant immediately remember. I thought you also  discussed  along with binaries that NON core aviation go elsewhere and  ADF politico threads also got a mention. 3 It was later discussed  again and at times I recall the discussion got most vigorous. Then  As a service and attempt to contribute  put that board up so that ADF ( non Aviation & other stuff )  that from time to time gets "cross pollinated" on this group. Mr rationale is most likely flawed but in the strongest possible terms  the spirit was to help not control.  More like the courtesy of not shouting in a library or coughing at a concert type thing. Please  understand that ( you would if you knew me in person) that "control" is anathema to me in groups such as this with the exception of self control. The group gives me and I suspect many others much  knowledge  and enjoyment and the odd tickle of frustration. But  I was genuinely trying to give something back to us all. There is no agenda I work for no Airline  except at times as a consultant . But Aviation and Australian aviation in particular has given me much. In fact if it was not for RFDS and 9 Sqn you would not be reading these words. So you are correct in part "I cant help myself" but I do try and help others. Perhaps a bit over zealous at times.  To recap’ the board is for discussion that is not AVIATION but  generates ( or has its genesis)  from this group but may need  to expand and grow in other areas. This also applies to certain esoteric  factors like Hypsometric tints used in Forestry There was discussion after  question on the difficulty of getting a host for a NG Again the spirit was to gauge the support for a pure Australian Defence Force NG   ( you will remember  the FBT and GST debates) Eg Jindalee  OTHER  begets  discussion on wave form and Doppler shift formulae.  Army cam uniform fabric and the  political obscenity of Rwanda and certain UN  decisions  is dam near a NG in itself sir.  That was and still is the spirit. You will recall that it was posted by many that Aus Aviation is the core  of the group  Other Corps may use the board  grin. A  sniping post generates heated abuse  Go to the board and vent the spleen ( bit like a boxing ring) Its a service  and effort to help the group nothing more than that. I sincerely hope this clears up any misunderstanding. So again  Ted hop in to the board and help us cross pollinate and  as is the way of political discussion ( in my experience more so when inter service rivalry goes) it can generate a bit of heat and certainly the odd sniping  . Thanks for raising the matter and I hope this  is the last clarification of this sort I need to post. And have a top day Sincerely Zealous Phil — http://members.tripod.com/~philcleaver/list.html

Here you go, again, Phil. Can’t help yourself, can you? How about you just let discussions that START in this newsgroup STAY on this newsgroup — and STOP trying to control what gets posted here.

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O By the way, the FA-18E only corrects for all the problems of the F/A-18A/C. There is no real jump in technology or capability.

Technology No, Capability yes. Fighters have a bad habit of gaining weight throughout the operation career, and this seriously erodes capability. So 23,000 pounds is where the F/A-18 starts, it probably weighs considerably more these days.                                Empty Weight        Max F/A-18A/C               23,000 pounds      51,900 F/A-18E/F                30,500 pounds      66,000 pounds Wing loading is about the same (there is a 25% increase in wing area, and engines went from 17,700 to 22,000 pounds if you have the -402’s, it improved , so thrust to weight didn’t change much either unless you compare it to the -400 engines (in which case thrust to weight improves quite noticeably). The  F414 on the E/F gets a little better fuel economy then the original F404-402’s, and a considerable improvement over the original -400’s. The bottom line is about 7,000 pounds more load available on the E/F. If that isn’t additional capability, please tell me what is.

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Cowboy there is some doubt as to the political agenda also  not mentioned here but considering its an aviation group. It may be wiser to expand the thread via the notice /discussion board  created for just this pupose on my web page. However, its a discussion that has greater scope  and happy to carry on outside this Aus aviation group.

Here you go, again, Phil. Can’t help yourself, can you? How about you just let discussions that START in this newsgroup STAY on this newsgroup — and STOP trying to control what gets posted here.

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Unfortunately, it is not as simple as that, especially operating two sets of fighter aircraft.  The support and maintenance costs of operating advanced aircraft such as the hornet and the pig are extremely high.  To operate two totally seperate sets of aircraft would certainly not be cost effective. Not to mention all the other obvious problems with training etc etc

The other side of this argument relates to overall capability.  By limiting your force to one aircraft type, you have no ability to minimise any limitations of that type. All multi-role aircraft make compromises in pure A/A and pure A/S capability.  Two different aircraft types can complement each other to minimise the impact of those compromises.

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OTOH, operating F-18-E/F at the same time as operating our now modestly unique A/B models would be a somewhat different kettle of fish.

Now, that is something I have been saying for quite a while, the F18 E/F is a very capable aircraft, and would suit our defence forces very well.

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All multi-role aircraft make compromises in pure A/A and pure A/S capability.  Two different aircraft types can complement each other to minimise the impact of those compromises.

This is true, however on our current defence budget, and on any realistic budget we could expect to see for quite a few years, this would be impossible.  Also, although the concept of quantity over quality has been proven time and again to be very flawed, given the choice of say 70-80 very capable aircraft such as the F-18E or F-22 for the same cost as a mixed inventory of 40 or so aircraft, I know what choice I would make.

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All multi-role aircraft make compromises in pure A/A and pure A/S capability.  Two different aircraft types can complement each other to minimise the impact of those compromises. This is true, however on our current defence budget, and on any realistic budget we could expect to see for quite a few years, this would be impossible.  Also, although the concept of quantity over quality has been proven time and again to be very flawed, given the choice of say 70-80 very capable aircraft such as the F-18E or F-22 for the same cost as a mixed inventory of 40 or so aircraft, I know what choice I would make.

You should not mention F-18E and F22 in the same sentence.  Totally different capability for totally different cost. By the way, the FA-18E only corrects for all the problems of the F/A-18A/C. There is no real jump in technology or capability. Give me an explanation of quantity over quality??

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We can not assume that USA will be there for us, I think that would be very unwise. But can we afford to keep up with the Jones in expensive aircraft? We do not have the pilots for the F 18s that we have now, better to look at what we can afford and by a lower number of super high tech f-22s or Eurofighters than larger quantities of less capable aircraft.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The bottom line questionS ARE : CAN WE AFFORD FUTURE BIG TICKET DEFENCE ITEMS; CAN WE AFFORD NOT TO AFFORD THEM? Those Australians who might think that the USA will be there to back them up should a major conflict in asia occur might be interested to read this short article: http://www.nypost.com/111399/editorial/18182.htm How to get into flying: chuck yourself at the earth and miss. Before you buy.

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G’day Cowboy and others . Good question  to the group. http://members.tripod.com/~philcleaver/list.html Answer via <

Cowboy posed: "A Defence white paper, to be released in early december argues that australia must shift future defence acquisitions to a system of ‘block buys’. This means instead of purchasing a large number of items at one hit and payment, we buy small numbers of an item at regular intervals , thus even out cash outflows and obtain the advantage of newer models with updated equipment. Buy more off the shelf. < Cowboy some years ago in my "real job" I worked for an institution and was Syndicate leader for a finance package wherein we (via Litton Industries) financed by way of leveraged leasing control rooms on 6 US Destroyers ( was some heavy Aussie Funding involved back to back due to currency swaps where OUR Phalanx upgrade came out a lot cheaper) So certain leasing  arrangments  predicated by offset arrangments may allow downstreaming of debt and stimulate local industries and most importantly keeps Expertise and  brains trust current to the benefit of Aus/Kiwi infrastructure. No doubt these decisions were  influenced by the much publicised problems that NATO forces had during recent operations with US armed forces in the Adriatic. NATO countries have been having a free ride and have just not been keeping up. < Cowboy there is some doubt as to the political agenda also  not mentioned here but considering its an aviation group. It may be wiser to expand the thread via the notice /discussion board  created for just this pupose on my web page. However, its a discussion that has greater scope  and happy to carry on outside this Aus aviation group. Cowboy also said The Revolution in Military Affairs < Groan!  this term  raises my hackles. perhaps not in the context you meant but its a thing that the beaurocrats use and also is suitibly vague to give rise to various interpretations and  is  the start of a weasel clause scenario  because it lacks  precise definition Again on the other board perhaps.  cb ^ "has been exercising the collective minds of our military leaders and advisers for several years now and the cost of maintaining our future capabilities while adhering to RMA concepts and desires will form part of the upcoming white paper." <  the other board as above A$5 billion spent of 75  F/A-18’s in 1981 would buy less than 20 F-22’s now. < This will always be a factor and finace departments are accountable for getting this across to those said to be their masters. However the politics will always  mean that one is sent back to create new models of financial trickery  that  often is  made so convoluted and nebulous as to end up defying  mathimatical laws. With replacements needed by 2015 for F-18; F-111; PC-3 its going to take innovative accounting and governmental resolve if we are to remain the ‘big kid on the block’ in this part of the world. ( someone may, one day ,actually buy a ’shitload of MIG-29’s ay Jacko) < hmmmmm Again an interesting term " the big Kid on the block"  Perhaps a change in focus of the kid on the block although not the biggest  not to be taken lightly.  The real big kid on the block will ultimately be China  when its commerce and  expansion gets rolling.. Islamic influence is also a consideration and the  events happening in Malaysia as we type dont appear to be getting the message across to the right people. IMO Food and technology transfer is also a consideration. Conflict starts over power base, food, and Money matters.  Watch events in Brunei over next 2 years  when Joffrey is bought to account  ( account is a very appropriate word on this "person".) Grin To throw a wild card – whats wrong with an alliance ( technology and manufacturing under JV /licence ) with Scandinavian interests. And South Africa and certain South americam countries. Brazil is an Economic  conundrum and has some fine intellect and good resources.  Its probably better (in the long term) to bring them in to our cartel now rather than fight them on commodities  that they can given time and support  blow us out of the water with in a few years. You dont need weapons for that. Money and information counter flows are far more efective. The bottom line questionS ARE : CAN WE AFFORD FUTURE BIG TICKET DEFENCE ITEMS; < We have to and therebye the Answer must be yes. CAN WE AFFORD NOT TO AFFORD THEM? Heck NO and Jingoistic rationale  is not even a factor in the reason for this answer. But Co-operation with KIWI and some other neighbours is needed. Good question but huge scope for expansion   and in depth  answers = long replies and reference  + bibliography so suggest the board on this one. With appropriate  aviation synopsi posted  to the Aus aviation news group. The board lives on my site. Needed by the Army immediatly  are 1 Better uniforms. 2 Medical infrastructure PNG  Sunarmi showed us how thin on the ground we are. 3 Ammumition  stocks and manufacturing  are  difficult from a log point of view Personel   and core force has inadequate "depth" APC and Leopards the bloody tracks are nearly falling off the things. Comms are a nightmare Intel  Medium TAC support and heavy lift is way behind the curve and  even now  crews and manpower  ( in depth) is non existant. LOH and other  is also thin. It gets worse.  Complimentary assets   via Customs, FEDPOL, and coast watch are now not effective  and next to useless  in a real sense. Even Aquis has not enough money to pay any overtime and carry out appropriate service. The Army needs at leats another Brigade and a half  and the lead times and training cadre’s are just not there Money!!! HUH . We waste so much its . The lessons from the Blackhawk enquiry. Where are the promised NVG and proper stabilised   "kit"  Training hours on Aircrew  has been reduced to levels that  boders on criminality in the civvy world.. Divers  for the Navy and Army ( yes the Army has a pretty decent Diving element)  is using archaic equipment and its only due to the deidication and core of  world class expertise  that we have not damaged more people. Eg where do they hold the decompression chambers ?  Bloody silly to have one of the required sitting 5 hours away If you really need it.  Jacko & JV you explain it to em please. So Cowboy  your "thread " gives rise to so many elements that ae worthy of much more  . The effect of what we do  will  influence so many facets of the fabric of our society for the next 2 or 3 generations ( consider  research as just one example and the flow on and  brain drain if we get it wrong) I particularly look forward to this thread either in this or another forum. Phil How to get into flying: chuck yourself at the earth and miss. Before you buy.

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just what is this ‘Revolution In Military Affairs’ phrase that people like to throw around??

Just another example of obfuscation, ftrplt. Or, if you prefer it in one syllable: Crap.

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Following this, it might be smart to say not upgrade 20 or so F-18’s and buy 20 replacement fighters around 2005, and get an extra 20 five years after that etc.

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as that, especially operating two sets of fighter aircraft.  The support and maintenance costs of operating advanced aircraft such as the hornet and the pig are extremely high.  To operate two totally seperate sets of aircraft would certainly not be cost effective. Not to mention all the other obvious problems with training etc etc

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The bottom line questionS ARE : CAN WE AFFORD FUTURE BIG TICKET DEFENCE ITEMS; CAN WE AFFORD NOT TO AFFORD THEM?

Those Australians who might think that the USA will be there to back them up should a major conflict in asia occur might be interested to read this short article: http://www.nypost.com/111399/editorial/18182.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How to get into flying: chuck yourself at the earth and miss. Before you buy.

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Unfortunately, it is not as simple as that, especially operating two sets of fighter aircraft.  The support and maintenance costs of operating advanced aircraft such as the hornet and the pig are extremely high.  To operate two totally seperate sets of aircraft would certainly not be cost effective. Not to mention all the other obvious problems with training etc etc

OTOH, operating F-18-E/F at the same time as operating our now modestly unique A/B models would be a somewhat different kettle of fish. Cheers Paul Saccani Perth, Western Australia.

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We have the same problem in Canada and I am beginning to wonder why smaller nations like ours try to keep up with the US. They have criticized us for our weak effort in Kosovo, but it was the best we could do with our small economy. Kosovo is and excellent example of the US ’s preoccupation with using expensive high tech  systems with doubtfull results. Nations like ours are in the same boat-how can we expect to keep up with a country which can afford to build 8  super carriers at 4 billion dollars each. That is mind boggling. I think we should just pack it in because we can’t influence things anyway. Arthur Perrin P.S. We have a bunched of mothballed F 18s the Aus may be able to buy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That would be the intelligent way to do it, eg, the DOD want’s to purchase at least 4 more subs, but they would come in batches of 2, around 10 years apart, enabaling new technologies to be incorperated. Following this, it might be smart to say not upgrade 20 or so F-18’s and buy 20 replacement fighters around 2005, and get an extra 20 five years after that etc.

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Cowboy, just what is this ‘Revolution In Military Affairs’ phrase that people like to throw around??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Defence white paper, to be released in early december argues that australia must shift future defence acquisitions to a system of ‘block buys’. This means instead of purchasing a large number of items at one hit and payment, we buy small numbers of an item at regular intervals , thus even out cash outflows and obtain the advantage of newer models with updated equipment. Buy more off the shelf.No doubt these decisions were influenced by the much publicised problems that NATO forces had during recent operations with US armed forces in the Adriatic. NATO countries have been having a free ride and have just not been keeping up. The Revolution in Military Affairs has been exercising the collective minds of our military leaders and advisers for several years now and the cost of maintaining our future capabilities while adhering to RMA concepts and desires will form part of the upcoming white paper. A$5 billion spent of 75  F/A-18’s in 1981 would buy less than 20 F-22’s now. With replacements needed by 2015 for F-18; F-111; PC-3 its going to take innovative accounting and governmental resolve if we are to remain the ‘big kid on the block’ in this part of the world. ( someone may, one day ,actually buy a ’shitload of MIG-29’s ay Jacko) The bottom line questionS ARE : CAN WE AFFORD FUTURE BIG TICKET DEFENCE ITEMS; CAN WE AFFORD NOT TO AFFORD THEM? How to get into flying: chuck yourself at the earth and miss. Before you buy.

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A Defence white paper, to be released in early december argues that australia must shift future defence acquisitions to a system of ‘block buys’. This means instead of purchasing a large number of items at one hit and payment, we buy small numbers of an item at regular intervals , thus even out cash outflows and obtain the advantage of newer models with updated equipment. Buy more off the shelf.No doubt these decisions were influenced by the much publicised problems that NATO forces had during recent operations with US armed forces in the Adriatic. NATO countries have been having a free ride and have just not been keeping up.

That would be the intelligent way to do it, eg, the DOD want’s to purchase at least 4 more subs, but they would come in batches of 2, around 10 years apart, enabaling new technologies to be incorperated. Following this, it might be smart to say not upgrade 20 or so F-18’s and buy 20 replacement fighters around 2005, and get an extra 20 five years after that etc.

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A Defence white paper, to be released in early december argues that australia must shift future defence acquisitions to a system of ‘block buys’. This means instead of purchasing a large number of items at one hit and payment, we buy small numbers of an item at regular intervals , thus even out cash outflows and obtain the advantage of newer models with updated equipment. Buy more off the shelf.No doubt these decisions were influenced by the much publicised problems that NATO forces had during recent operations with US armed forces in the Adriatic. NATO countries have been having a free ride and have just not been keeping up. The Revolution in Military Affairs has been exercising the collective minds of our military leaders and advisers for several years now and the cost of maintaining our future capabilities while adhering to RMA concepts and desires will form part of the upcoming white paper. A$5 billion spent of 75  F/A-18’s in 1981 would buy less than 20 F-22’s now. With replacements needed by 2015 for F-18; F-111; PC-3 its going to take innovative accounting and governmental resolve if we are to remain the ‘big kid on the block’ in this part of the world. ( someone may, one day ,actually buy a ’shitload of MIG-29’s ay Jacko) The bottom line questionS ARE : CAN WE AFFORD FUTURE BIG TICKET DEFENCE ITEMS; CAN WE AFFORD NOT TO AFFORD THEM? How to get into flying: chuck yourself at the earth and miss. Before you buy.

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Question:

Yes, and it needs to be stated in your Notes to the Account. Before you buy.

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I concur with David, disagree with Stuart Main. As David says, revisions to estimates do not constitute changes in accounting policy.  I doubt you’ll find any accounting textbook that differs, and my (old) copy of the Handbook of the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants affirms this definition.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe that changes in estimates are not changes in accounting policy. Revisions to estimates of useful life may be made using the same accounting policy, being to depreciate over estimated useful life. Hello, I am wondering change of depreciation estimate useful life or depreciation rate could it be consider as change of accounting policy?

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Yes. Hello, I am wondering change of depreciation estimate useful life or depreciation rate could it be consider as change of accounting policy?

have u study your IAS/MASB standards?…

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Hello, I am wondering change of depreciation estimate useful life or depreciation rate could it be consider as change of accounting policy?

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Yes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am wondering change of depreciation estimate useful life or depreciation rate could it be consider as change of accounting policy?

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I believe that changes in estimates are not changes in accounting policy. Revisions to estimates of useful life may be made using the same accounting policy, being to depreciate over estimated useful life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am wondering change of depreciation estimate useful life or depreciation rate could it be consider as change of accounting policy?

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Sorry.  After re-reading this question David is correct.  I was making some assumptions with the written content of this question.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe that changes in estimates are not changes in accounting policy. Revisions to estimates of useful life may be made using the same accounting policy, being to depreciate over estimated useful life. Hello, I am wondering change of depreciation estimate useful life or depreciation rate could it be consider as change of accounting policy?

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Question:

 I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts.   The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light.  How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

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Well, my belts did the same thing till I squirted a little silicone lubricant on ‘em.  Stopped that squeal real quick!!  Although, now (about 3 mo. later) its doing it again, but just a little more lubricant should do the trick……. -Justin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts. The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light.  How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

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Silicone can damage the pulley bearing seals – a mechanic I spoke with said  DO NOT use belt dressing. If you don’t want to remove the belt and clean the pullies – try using a bio-degradable – degreaser – spray the belt and pullies and use a medium stiff brush to clean the surfaces —- rinse throughly with Water. Steve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, my belts did the same thing till I squirted a little silicone lubricant on ‘em.  Stopped that squeal real quick!!  Although, now (about 3 mo. later) its doing it again, but just a little more lubricant should do the trick……. -Justin  I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts. The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light.  How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

PLEASE NOTE:  When replying via email – Substitute      StevenJB for the "NOSPAM"  at the beginning      of my email address – to assure proper delivery

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Make sure you also tighten A/C belt and power steering belt.

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If, the belts are properly tightened, and still squeal, the pulleys are likely glazed. The antifreeze that dumped on the pulleys acted as a lubricant.  This caused belt slippage which in turn polished the pulleys. To fix:  Lightly sand the inside of the pulley with 100/120 grit sandpaper. This is to remove antifreeze traces and take the sheen off the sheave.  It is the sides of the ‘v’ in the sheave that give it grip, not the bottom of the ‘v’ Your new belts are likely glased now, so you have to replace them again or you’ll be back to step 1.  Check that the belt has no shiny surfaces or streaks on the inside of the ‘v’ to confirm this. Dont use belt dressing.  It is designed to slightly corrode the belt, thereby giving it a sticky grip.  In turn, this shortens belt life. Hope that helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts. The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light. How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If, the belts are properly tightened, and still squeal, the pulleys are likely glazed. The antifreeze that dumped on the pulleys acted as a lubricant.  This caused belt slippage which in turn polished the pulleys. To fix:  Lightly sand the inside of the pulley with 100/120 grit sandpaper. This is to remove antifreeze traces and take the sheen off the sheave.  It is the sides of the ‘v’ in the sheave that give it grip, not the bottom of the ‘v’ Your new belts are likely glased now, so you have to replace them again or you’ll be back to step 1.  Check that the belt has no shiny surfaces or streaks on the inside of the ‘v’ to confirm this. Dont use belt dressing.  It is designed to slightly corrode the belt, thereby giving it a sticky grip.  In turn, this shortens belt life. Hope that helps. I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts. The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light. How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

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I have some bad news for you… its not the pulleys.  Its the belts themsleves.  For some reason you can no longer find belts that fit exactly like they should in the pullys. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts. The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light. How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

Response:

I have some bad news for you… its not the pulleys.  Its the belts themsleves.  For some reason you can no longer find belts that fit exactly like they should in the pullys.

That s easy.  Goto your local parts store and ask to borrow  belt guages. Its a plasic tool, with 5 or 6 pieces on a chain.  Each guage has three sides, and is used to mesure the angle and depth of the pulley. If the origional belts are really unavailable, an exact replica is available, either metric or standard.  For example, a BP137 is an exact replacement for  a 74 vega fan belt, supposedly not available. The most important thing, is that the top of the ‘V’ be flush with the top of the pulley.  The dimension between the bottom of the pulley and the bottom of the belt is irrelevant. Accounting for belt stretch is not a factor.  Lenght can easily be accomodated with one size eithe way, and adjustments on the bracket will provide for this. Just ignore the part #, and go by actual measuremnets. TO check for tighness, half an inch of slack per foot is adequate.  Put firm pressure on the belt halfway beteen the two pulleys.  You shoulnt be able to give it more than 5/8" of deflection.  (assuming theres 18" between pulleys) For reference, I am not a mechanic.  I am a 2nd class Power Engineer.  Its applied enginnering  (fixing the engineers mistakes in the field)  so I feel that my experience is applicable and valid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts. The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light. How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

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Interesting thing about this thread is that I have a car where the belt is just touching the fan pulley (abot 20deg. worth) and never get squeal from that car but my other car has a normal setup and I get squeal regularly with that one and it has the 3 pulleys in a nice triangle.  What’s even more interesting is that on the first car, I tend to run the belts loose and they last for a long time. Bob May

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well what i would do is check and dee that the correct belt numbers were used on the vehicle…. silicone spray only masks the problem and actually will soak into the rubber causing premature failure…..so you want to make sure that you dont have a loose belt or something…most older gms had a deflection spec for tightmess…. was betwwen 3/3 and 1/2 in when you pull up on the belt and push down on it(total travel from one way to the other…..  hope it helps….   Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, my belts did the same thing till I squirted a little silicone lubricant on ‘em.  Stopped that squeal real quick!!  Although, now (about 3 mo. later) its doing it again, but just a little more lubricant should do the trick……. -Justin  I just replaced the belts in my 85 cultass after having a water pump fail and dump all the anit-freeze all over the belts. The question I have is after replacing the belts( alternator and water pump ) why are they are squealing like crazy?  I have has the new belts in now for about a month and even retightened them incase they had streched a bit during there break in.  It still didn’t work. So I let it go for anothe week. Now the squeal has come down somewhat, but I still get it when I start up the car and then it disappers when it the motor comes down to ilde speed and under acceleration from a stop light.  How do I find out if the belt is too tight or too loose? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Traxx

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Question:

Using such meaningless indicators as guides to health, or more irresponsibly as triggers for "treatment" have been a major error. Their value in assessing "HIV and Aids" cases has been totally demolished by research. I am sorry to be reading the back and forth comments between people in this newsgroup that have the potential to cause so much harm.

Thing is, while people keep responding to this guy he will continue to post. Nothing is to be gained by contradicting him – he is unshakeable in his belief. It is like trying to argue with a flat earther or Jehovah’s Witness – you will find you do not share enough reference points for any meaningful discourse. I know how difficult it is to withstand the temptation to refute each erroneous and increasingly outrageous assertion – but that it exactly what I am suggesting we do. Silence=(in this case)Contempt. I think it may be far more effective than a constant flame war. I know he’s wrong, you know he’s wrong, he’s mad. There is no more to be said. — jonboy "Love isn’t a non-renewable resource. If Amy and Barbara or Mike and Steve love each other, it doesn’t mean that John and Mary can’t." Ed Fallon

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if you are competent to understand them, scientific papers. When you have acquired a smattering of understanding, come back and let us know what you think.

A real laugh, coming from you, John. Wally

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And dwindling numbers of diisidents for two reasons: they either see the light or they die from AIDS because they refuse antivirals.

Yeah, but you can’t help admiring them for sticking to their guns, as incredibly needless and ignominious as such deaths may be. Which is about as much respect as these folks could ever hope for. Wally Boulton

Response:

Perhaps those of us who feel compelled to respond to these idiots are as much to blame for giving them the "15 minutes of fame" they crave for.

No doubt about it.  And I’m probably among the worst of these sinners. They deserve an equal response to what they have to say … silence. Wally

Response:

For John spouting some hysterical belief that AIDs does not exist and for Marnix who is trying to argue with someone clearly lost in [...] Another total ignoramus. Start your (very long, in your case) search for knowledge on the net, and then expand it to include books and if you are competent to understand them, scientific papers.

Now which scientific papers would you recommend John ? I’ve seen the books, newspaper articles and Websites. But as a scientist I find it hard to debate unsubstantiated arguments. But now you promise us scientific articles. Oh, and while you’re at it, please answer the questions I put to you before ? You remember, right ? Marnix Bosch

Response:

For John spouting some hysterical belief that AIDs does not exist and for Marnix who is trying to argue with someone clearly lost in [...]

Another total ignoramus. Start your (very long, in your case) search for knowledge on the net, and then expand it to include books and if you are competent to understand them, scientific papers. When you have acquired a smattering of understanding, come back and let us know what you think. Below is the latest list of "Aids"-realist resources easily available to anyone interested, which the author and expert John Lauritsen helpfully updates and posts to this group. Perhaps if you learn a bit about the subject you will sound less irrational.  John             AGAINST THE HIV-CAUSES-AIDS HYPOTHESIS:                BOOKS, ARTICLES, AND OTHER RESOURCES                            September 1996                     Compiled by John Lauritsen        There is great disparity between the political and the scientific strength of the HIV-Causes-AIDS hypothesis. Politically it prevails, through censorship revolving around the interests of the multi-billion dollar AIDS Industry. Scientifically, it was refuted decisively years ago.  A rapidly growing number of scientists are now convinced that the HIV-Causes- AIDS hypothesis is wrong, and that it was bizarre and foolish from the very beginning.       The obvious parallel is Lysenkoism.  For many years, no one in the Soviet Union publicly expressed disbelief in Lysenko’s crackpot theories that acquired characteristics can be inherited. No one dared mention the principles of modern genetics, for to do so would have meant risking one’s career and even one’s life.       For those who are open-minded, I have prepared a brief list of AIDS-dissident resources.  My objective was to include only the strongest and most readily available.       Neville Hodgkinson’s new book, AIDS: THE FAILURE OF CONTEMPORARY SCIENCE, is the best AIDS history to date.  It presents comprehensive and objective analyses of all sides in the various controversies — "dissidents" as well as defenders of the prevailing orthodoxies.  Beginning in 1985 Hodgkinson wrote on AIDS for the Sunday Times (London) as their medical correspondent, and then later as their science correspondent.       INFECTIOUS AIDS: HAVE WE BEEN MISLED? (1996) presents all of the major AIDS articles of Peter Duesberg — articles which were previously available only in scientific journals.  These articles are essential reading for an understanding of the AIDS Phenomenon.  Someday they will be required reading in History of Science courses.       Duesberg’s brilliant new book from Regnery, INVENTING THE AIDS VIRUS, provides a relatively non-technical introduction to AIDS-criticism, as does the REASON article.         My own 480-page book, THE AIDS WAR, stands alone in exposing the scientific fraud that was committed when AZT was approved for marketing by the FDA.  It explains the "Risk-AIDS hypothesis" (the leading alternative to the HIV-AIDS hypothesis) in great detail, followed by a program for recovery from "AIDS" based on the Risk-AIDS hypothesis.  Crooked and/or irrational "scientists", "AIDS activists", journalists and public health officials receive their due comeuppances.       The article by Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos et al., "Is a Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?", provides a devastating critique of the commonly used "HIV-antibody" tests, the Elisa and the Western Blot.  Neither of these tests has ever been validated against the only meaningful standard, actual isolation of the retrovirus HIV.  In addition to being highly unreliable, these tests react to many things that have nothing whatever to do with HIV, such as malaria, leprosy, influenza, and many different drugs.  Nevertheless, these tests are the basis for an assumption of "HIV infection" and for treatment with highly toxic nucleoside analogue drugs (AZT, ddI, ddC, d4T, etc.) — drugs which reliably cause the death of the patient, even though he might be perfectly healthy prior to treatment.       Ian Young’s book, THE STONEWALL EXPERIMENT, is not primarily about "AIDS".  However, it provides a profound and beautifully written portrait of the particular subset of gay men who are becoming sick in ways that are diagnosed as "AIDS" — the psychological and toxicological health risks in their lives.       CONTINUUM Magazine has been publishing critical AIDS articles since 1992.  172 Foundling Court, Brunswick Centre, London WC1N 1QE, England.  Tel.: [+44] (01) 171 713-7071.       The Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV-AIDS Hypothesis, founded by Prof. Charles A. Thomas, Jr., now has a membership of several hundred scientists and other professionals: 7514 Girard Ave., #1-331, La Jolla, CA 92037. Telephone: (619) 272-1621.       Several Internet web sites contain critical AIDS articles. The largest is the AIDS Information Bulletin Board System (AIB), whose vast archives can be accessed:       By gopher:     gopher://itsa.ucsf.edu:70/00/.i/.q/.d/       By ftp:        ftp ftp://itsa/ucsf/edu:70/00/.i/.q/.d/       By web:        http://itsa.ucsf.edu/~beng/aidsbbs.html       In addition there is an impressive new Rethinking AIDS web site:             http://www.xs4all.nl/~raido/       And the Sumeria site, "exploring alternative ideas in health,   science, and spirituality", has featured AIDS-dissident material for some time:             http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/                *     *     *     *     *     *     * Peter H. Duesberg (editor). AIDS; VIRUS OR DRUG INDUCED? (book). Articles by E. Papadopulos-Eleopulos et al., P.H. Duesberg, V.L.       Koliadin, M. Craddock, M.D. Zaretsky, D.T. Chiu, R.S.       Root-Bernstein, H.W. Haverkos,  D.P. Drotman, B.J. Ellison,       A.B. Downey, G.T. Stewart, K.B. Mullis, S. Harris, S. Lang,       N. Hodgkinson, P. Johnson, T.  Bethell, J. Lauritsen, and C.       Farber. Kluwer Academics Press, Dordrecht, The Netherlands (1996). For orders in North and South America:       Tel: 617 871 6600         Fax: 617 871 6528   For orders elsewhere:       Tel: +31 78 639 23 92         Fax: +31 78 654 64 74   Peter H. Duesberg. INFECTIOUS AIDS: HAVE WE BEEN MISLED? (book). A collection of thirteen articles originally published in       scientific journals. North Atlantic Books (1996) P.O. Box 12327 Berkeley, CA 94712 For orders: 1 800 337-2665 Peter H. Duesberg. INVENTING THE AIDS VIRUS (book). Regnery Publishing, Inc. (1996) P.O. Box 39 Federalsburg, MD 21632-0039 For orders: 1 800 955-5493 Neville Hodgkinson. AIDS: THE FAILURE OF CONTEMPORARY SCIENCE (book). Fourth Estate (1996). 6 Salem Road London W2 4BU England. [+44] (0171) 727-8995   fax: [+44] (0171) 792-3176 Can be ordered from Book Services by Post Ltd:       via fax:  [+44] 1624 670923       via Internet web site:  www.bookpost.co.uk (secure server)   John Lauritsen. THE AIDS WAR: PROPAGANDA, PROFITEERING AND GENOCIDE FROM THE       MEDICAL-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX (book). Asklepios (1993). Box 1902, Provincetown, MA 02657-0245.       or call (508) 487-8369. Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos, Valendar F.  Turner. and John M.       Papadimitriou. "Is a Positive Western Blot Proof of HIV Infection?". BIO/TECHNOLOGY, June 1993, pp. 696-707. Charles A. Thomas Jr., Kary B. Mullis, and Phillip E. Johnson. "What Causes AIDS: It’s an Open Question". REASON, June 1994.  (The December 1994 issue of REASON has 10       pages devoted to correspondence and authors’ replies       concerning the June article.) Ian Young. THE STONEWALL EXPERIMENT: A GAY PSYCHOHISTORY (book). Cassell. London and New York 1995. For orders: 1 800 243-0138  (hours: 8:30-17:30 CST)

Response:

I am sorry to be reading the back and forth comments between people in this newsgroup that have the potential to cause so much harm. For John spouting some hysterical belief that AIDs does not exist and for Marnix who is trying to argue with someone clearly lost in his own Universe, the potential here is truly frightening.  If one person reading this, finds truth in his or her mind that the drugs that they are taking are the cause of their illness and stop and subsequently die because of it, then this discussion will have crossed dangerous ground to criminal ground.

First off, Ken, I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point. I do not need some hysterical megalomaniac telling people that AIDs is caused by the drugs they are taking when so many of my friends are now dead because the drugs did not come in time.  I also have friends living with AIDS because of those drugs, that even a year ago had given up all hope.  Not only are they living, they are living well as are many people on the drug program.  Where does John get his blantly delusional information?  Don’t quote studies to me.  Talk to my friends and others who are alive today because of the newest AIDS drugs.  To say that those drugs are the cause of AIDS is murderous, should one person believe it.

I have fought this fight for six months, and have finally realized a most important point about it:  idiots like John have ONLY this newsgroup in which to spout such nonsense.  No media takes AIDS dissidents seriously, and they are not given air time or print for their ridiculous ideas.  (Other than, of course, their own publications and videotapes, read and watched only by them.)  Although I had heard of Duesberg and his radical ideas years ago, I thought they were quite soundly discredited.  I live in New York City, a "heartland," if you will, of AIDS.  Never once, in this city, had I heard of "dissidents" before I came to this newsgroup.  If that isn’t evidence that, in the real world, they simply don’t exist in a manner to make a difference, I don’t know what is. My lover of 16 years died nearly three years ago of AIDS-related PCP. Denial, not of AIDS itself, but of being ill, prevented him (and me) from seeking proper medical care soon enough, and he succumbed to what should have been a manageable opportunistic infection.  I myself went through a bout of PCP which nearly killed me.  This was followed by active TB, which was found and successfully treated early (thanks to the bronchoscopy done relevant to the PCP) and, last summer, a MAC attack which also nearly killed me.  Fortunately, protease inhibitors WERE around in time for me, and although not always feeling wonderful, I do feel good most and of time, and believe that I have time ahead of me now. It is denial that people like John court.  What he has to say — "act like nothing is wrong" — is exactly what they want to hear.  And yes, you’re right, it would indeed be murderous if his advice sways them. However, I have come to realize that most people have better sense than this.  Those who don’t, and who follow John’s advice, want to do so, and no amount of persuasion by others is going to stop them.  As much as it hurts because of my own very close personal relationship to it all, I have realized that I just can’t save the world from people like John. (Or scam artists like Ed Lieb and John Scudamore, or hysterical maniacs like Fred Shaw, or others who post in this newsgroup — read here for a while and you’ll get to know the names.) Enough is enough.  It is a free country and the internet is based on free speech.  This type of rhetoric is not free and should not be tolerated.  When words of one person cause the degradation in life of another innocent person, then the words are not free.  When ignorance and bigotry form to deprive people of not only their civil rights for the right to life itself, that is also not free.  By saying those hateful things tinged with danger, they silence those that might think otherwise but do not have the courage to speak out.

It is an unfortunate fact of life on the internet that, in an unmoderated news group such as misc.health.aids, people can say anything they want.  Although it is a free country, the internet is not an American property and can’t be controlled in this regard.  Believe me, I agree with what you have said.  But it just ain’t the nature of the beast.  And I agree that John and some of the others here are hatemongering homophobes.  And it never hurts to remind them, publicly within the newsgroup, of what they are. I had a friend many years ago who was diagnosed with ARC, before they dropped that classification.  Because of the negative backlash he endured because of his illness, from the medical establishment at the time, to his place of employment, to the fear generated in those who knew him, he took what he considered his only alternative.  He is gone and this world is a poorer place for it.  He took his own life rather than fight on with the hope that someday, someone might find a way to save his life, or at least prolong it.  He was a close and dear friend and he is missed terribly and I blame idiots like those saying the drugs are the problem for continuing the hysteria and bigotry that caused him to end his life rather than fight on.

This is an issue close to my heart.  In many ways, my lover’s denial was, indeed, a form of suicide.  He more than once said he would take a dive out of our eighth-floor apartment window into the courtyard below before he would live with the illness and hopelessness of so many others we have all seen.  His belief in his doom was so strong that I honestly believe that his death came about largely because he gave up when he might have fought and lived on long enough for the drug cocktails. The ray of sunshine is simply that, if people like John can’t be dealt with on a direct, face-to-face level (notice that John apparently is afraid of exactly such a thing — it is one of the reasons he works so hard at being anonymous), it is some comfort to know that the most harm they can do is to enfold those who, in all likelihood, would ultimately come to some similar way of thinking on their own.  Sad, but true. John is pathetic.  He is given to using television documentaries and sensationalistic tabloids as a reference source to "prove" his "points."  His is a flat-earth, geocentric view of things.  NOT ONCE has he ever posted the slightest bit of real data or science.  Only his own beliefs about things.  And every time he has been cornered with real-world evidence — the science and the data — he resorts to calling it lies.  Consequently, he cannot be argued with on a reasonable level, because he turns logic on its head.  So I have come to think of and deal with John as a source of great amusement.  His ideas are laughable. If you read in this group long enough, you will see that even the dissidents are at odds with one another.  John doesn’t believe in anything, yet wholeheartedly backs up those dissidents who agree with the accepted idea that HIV exists and is an infectious organism, or who advocate the medicinal use of marijuana.  That, actually, is even more pathetic and laughable to observe. Perhaps more dangerous are people like Ed Lieb, who sells people a $250 rebounder, telling them that its use has cured cancer, AIDS and other "incurable" diseases (a paradoxical idea, if ever there was one).  And those he is after are the ones who are most frightened and desparate because of their situation in regard to AIDS.  On his web site, he tells us at the outset that the most amazing discovery he has made recently is that AIDS is a hoax.  Then, at the end of his multi-page advertisement for rebounders, he informs us that some proceeds from the sale of rebounders are used to help fight AIDS.  Unfortunately, he means this in a very lexiconical sense — he is not fighting to help those with AIDS, he is not fighting to help find a cure for AIDS.  He is fighting, literally, with the CONCEPT of AIDS.  I’m willing to bet that an accounting of the "proceeds" show them ALL going into Ed Lieb’s pocket, since that is where his fight against AIDS is happening. But enough.  Stay tuned.  You can bet John and Ed will have something to say about all this.  And you’ll be sure to get a chuckle out of it. Wally Boulton

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [ Me: ] Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 counts and health. Those who claim otherwise are lying. This response confirms my comment above. Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 cells and immune function. All claims to the contrary are lies. Using such meaningless indicators as guides to health, or more irresponsibly as triggers for "treatment" have been a major error. Their value in assessing "HIV and Aids" cases has been totally demolished by research.

I am sorry to be reading the back and forth comments between people in this newsgroup that have the potential to cause so much harm. For John spouting some hysterical belief that AIDs does not exist and for Marnix who is trying to argue with someone clearly lost in his own Universe, the potential here is truly frightening.  If one person reading this, finds truth in his or her mind that the drugs that they are taking are the cause of their illness and stop and subsequently die because of it, then this discussion will have crossed dangerous ground to criminal ground. I do not need some hysterical meglomaniac telling people that AIDs is caused by the drugs they are taking when so many of my friends are now dead because the drugs did not come in time.  I also have friends living with AIDS because of those drugs, that even a year ago had given up all hope.  Not only are they living, they are living well as are many people on the drug program.  Where does John get his blantly delusional information?  Don’t quote studies to me.  Talk to my friends and others who are alive today because of the newest AIDS drugs.  To say that those drugs are the cause of AIDS is murderous, should one person believe it. For this discussion to continue with the potential for harm clearly present is wrong.  All who read this should take steps to silence this type of discussion.  There has been so much in the negative, gay bashing in the 60’s and 70’s, people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell calling it the Gay Plague, recent events like the Southern Baptists calling for a boycott of Disney because of a benefits package for non-married couples which to them equates to gay friendly which is against God’s law. Enough is enough.  It is a free country and the internet is based on free speech.  This type of rhetoric is not free and should not be tolerated.  When words of one person cause the degradation in life of another innocent person, then the words are not free.  When ignorance and bigotry form to deprive people of not only their civil rights for the right to life itself, that is also not free.  By saying those hateful things tinged with danger, they silence those that might think otherwise but do not have the courage to speak out. I had a friend many years ago who was diagnosed with ARC, before they dropped that classification.  Because of the negative backlash he endured because of his illness, from the medical establishment at the time, to his place of employment, to the fear generated in those who knew him, he took what he considered his only alternative.  He is gone and this world is a poorer place for it.  He took his own life rather than fight on with the hope that someday, someone might find a way to save his life, or at least prolong it.  He was a close and dear friend and he is missed terribly and I blame idiots like those saying the drugs are the problem for continuing the hysteria and bigotry that caused him to end his life rather than fight on. Ken

Response:

Anything to make a bit of noise and *seem* to be engaged with us.

There is NOTHING engaging about you. In reality they are shitting a brick. I am still waiting for some explanation of how Marnix explains the unbroken string of successes dissidents have had in predicting the course of "Aids", the failure of "treatments", the fact that the drugs cause the illnesses they are touted as curing, the hermetic confinenent of "Aids" to voluntary victims with no epidemic in society generally, the fact that the whole nonsense disappears when people stop co-operating with it. And so on. They simply have no reply.

Which is appropriate.  Who in their right mind would reply to your nonsense? Wally

Response:

[snip] I have given them references time and again.

Yah – to pop science websites. Boy, am *I* impressed! I saw a survey in The Economist recently that indicated that a degree in the biological sciences actually *reduces* the recipients earning potential!

That kind of squashes your claim that we’re in this for the money, doesn’t it, sweetiepie? [snip] —

Response:

Don’t hold yours, Charlie. Looks like the CD4 count becomes meaningless once the drugs are started. Isn’t this obvious yet?

I have given them references time and again. I think we all have. Their new technique seems to be to constantly ask for detail, refuse to read it, and then ask again. Marnix does the same thing. Just shows how desperate they are. Anything to make a bit of noise and *seem* to be engaged with us. In reality they are shitting a brick. I am still waiting for some explanation of how Marnix explains the unbroken string of successes dissidents have had in predicting the course of "Aids", the failure of "treatments", the fact that the drugs cause the illnesses they are touted as curing, the hermetic confinenent of "Aids" to voluntary victims with no epidemic in society generally, the fact that the whole nonsense disappears when people stop co-operating with it. And so on. They simply have no reply. I saw a survey in The Economist recently that indicated that a degree in the biological sciences actually *reduces* the recipients earning potential! This is where they have brought their "scientific" discipline; flushed down the drain. Talk about letting the market decide; I wouldn’t employ these dunces to cut grass!    John — "They seem to have learned like the mad hatter to believe six impossible things before breakfast and so one more makes no difference. One gets a remarkable sense of being disassociated from the real world when entering the realm of Aids research."          Dr Mark Craddock, mathematician, on QC-PCR use by Ho & Shaw.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not true. Even though CD4 counts fluctuate AIDS diagnoses are (in part) based on SUSTAINED low CD4 counts. Rehashed in this ng over and over again. Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 counts and health. Those who claim otherwise are lying. Please see Lang, Perkins, Anderson, et al.,  "Patterns of T Lymphocyte Changes with Human Immunodeficiency Virus Infection: from seroconversion to the Development of AIDS", Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes 2:63-69, 1989 which observed an average 160 cells/uL/year decline in CD4+ T-cells during the 18-months prior to an AIDS diagnosis. Using such meaningless indicators as guides to health, or more irresponsibly as triggers for "treatment" have been a major error. Their value in assessing "HIV and Aids" cases has been totally demolished by research.  Any references for your latest spewage? Don’t hold your breath, Dave.

Don’t hold yours, Charlie. Looks like the CD4 count becomes meaningless once the drugs are started. Isn’t this obvious yet? A no-brainer, really. fred

Response:

Let me be quite clear. [ discredited dogma flushed ]

Oops, something there that made you uncomfortable ? Marnix Bosch

Response:

Let me be quite clear. [ discredited dogma flushed ]

You’re only fooling yourself, Marnix.   Isn’t it worrying how many new "side-effects" (actually they are the only effects) of the new combinations of toxic medical assaults on so-called "HIV positive" people are turning up? Who would have guessed they cause diabetes in addition to all the other damage they do? (Apart from "Aids" dissidents, of course, who have been absolutely on the button about these murderous "treatments" right from the outset.) Don’t you wish you could be on the winning side for once, Marnix? Just for once. Wouldn’t that feel good?  John —   Dr. Luc Montagnier, "discoverer of HIV", Institute Pasteur Paris: "There are too many shortcomings in the theory that HIV causes all signs of AIDS"

Response:

Let me be quite clear. In the absence of drug intervention declining CD4 cells is a sign of disease progression and a deteriorating immune system. In the presence of drug treatment (antivirals) increases in CD4 cells occur, but the meaning of that observation (whether these are uncommitted cells or memory cells) is currently a point of debate. Marnix Bosch (sorry John, random quotes from a tv documentary will not convince anyone) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [ Me: ] Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 counts and health. Those who claim otherwise are lying. On the other hand, there is vast information about the relationship between CD4 counts and a healthy immune response. No CD4 cells, no immune response, few CD4 cells, little immune response, lots of CD4 cells, potentially healthy immune response. This response confirms my comment above. Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 cells and immune function. All claims to the contrary are lies. Using such meaningless indicators as guides to health, or more irresponsibly as triggers for "treatment" have been a major error. Their value in assessing "HIV and Aids" cases has been totally demolished by research. Quote research please. Start with the Concorde trial results. Read misc.health.aids for a few weeks. (You know the evidence, Marnix, you just hope to mislead the unwary.) But just to underline the extent of your mendacity, here are some quotes from the Panorana edition exposing drug company dishonesty in promoting the deadly AZT as "medication". Which you are well aware of.   These are quotes from BBC Panorama documentary programme "A Ray of Hope", BBC1, Monday 18th March, 1996.   Panorama interviewed the members of the British Medical Research   Council involved in the Concorde trial and learnt of the problems   they experienced with the company. At the start of the trial, the   MRC team revealed, the company had wanted to use CD4 cell counts   as an indicator of the drug’s success. The team refused to allow   this, suspecting that CD4 cell counts could be raised by the action   of the drug without offering any health benefits. "We were worried   that the CD4 count might be a cosmetic measure," Concorde’s UK   Chairman Prof. David Warrell explained. This turned out to be   correct. In the latest analyses of the Concorde data, raised CD4   cell counts are found in the group, with higher mortality,   starting AZT early.     "It did seem to be a surrogate marker, a potentially   misleading index," Prof. Warrell said.     "But this was one of the markers which the company had relied   on in its own trials of AZT," the interviewer reminded him.     "Exactly! So we felt vindicated in our reserve, or scepticism,   about what one could infer from the CD4 count alone," Prof.   Warrell commented.   ==/== CD4 counts are quite meaningless in relation to "Aids", which in the UK is almost exclusively medical poisoning with wildly inapropriate and deadly substances, dishonestly prescribed as though they were medicine. As potential victims refuse to co-operate with this, "Aids deaths" are rapidly dwindling away to nothing. The "Aids" superstition is finished here. And good riddance to it! You have said it before, but not backed it up with data. Basically like everything you’ve said on this newsgroup. I have supported everything I have said, as readers are well aware, so this squalid little trick is looking more and more pathetic every time you sorry losers try it on.  John —   "There is this terrible fear throughout the field that it will be discovered we have been walking down the wrong route all these years and advising people to do things which will turn out to be the wrong things. I think about quitting all the time."            UK "Aids" industry worker’s letter to Neville Hodgkinson,               author of _AIDS: The Failure of Contemporary Science_

Response:

[ Me: ] Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 counts and health. Those who claim otherwise are lying. On the other hand, there is vast information about the relationship between CD4 counts and a healthy immune response. No CD4 cells, no immune response, few CD4 cells, little immune response, lots of CD4 cells, potentially healthy immune response.

This response confirms my comment above. Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 cells and immune function. All claims to the contrary are lies. Using such meaningless indicators as guides to health, or more irresponsibly as triggers for "treatment" have been a major error. Their value in assessing "HIV and Aids" cases has been totally demolished by research. Quote research please.

Start with the Concorde trial results. Read misc.health.aids for a few weeks. (You know the evidence, Marnix, you just hope to mislead the unwary.) But just to underline the extent of your mendacity, here are some quotes from the Panorana edition exposing drug company dishonesty in promoting the deadly AZT as "medication". Which you are well aware of.   These are quotes from BBC Panorama documentary programme "A Ray of Hope", BBC1, Monday 18th March, 1996.   Panorama interviewed the members of the British Medical Research   Council involved in the Concorde trial and learnt of the problems   they experienced with the company. At the start of the trial, the   MRC team revealed, the company had wanted to use CD4 cell counts   as an indicator of the drug’s success. The team refused to allow   this, suspecting that CD4 cell counts could be raised by the action   of the drug without offering any health benefits. "We were worried   that the CD4 count might be a cosmetic measure," Concorde’s UK   Chairman Prof. David Warrell explained. This turned out to be   correct. In the latest analyses of the Concorde data, raised CD4   cell counts are found in the group, with higher mortality,   starting AZT early.     "It did seem to be a surrogate marker, a potentially   misleading index," Prof. Warrell said.     "But this was one of the markers which the company had relied   on in its own trials of AZT," the interviewer reminded him.     "Exactly! So we felt vindicated in our reserve, or scepticism,   about what one could infer from the CD4 count alone," Prof.   Warrell commented.   ==/== CD4 counts are quite meaningless in relation to "Aids", which in the UK is almost exclusively medical poisoning with wildly inapropriate and deadly substances, dishonestly prescribed as though they were medicine. As potential victims refuse to co-operate with this, "Aids deaths" are rapidly dwindling away to nothing. The "Aids" superstition is finished here. And good riddance to it! You have said it before, but not backed it up with data. Basically like everything you’ve said on this newsgroup.

I have supported everything I have said, as readers are well aware, so this squalid little trick is looking more and more pathetic every time you sorry losers try it on.  John —   "There is this terrible fear throughout the field that it will be discovered we have been walking down the wrong route all these years and advising people to do things which will turn out to be the wrong things. I think about quitting all the time."            UK "Aids" industry worker’s letter to Neville Hodgkinson,               author of _AIDS: The Failure of Contemporary Science_

Response:

On 13 June Dave Thomson wrote ( to John-Dog re; cd4 counts and health) any references for your latest spewage?

From the NIAID news 29 april 1997; "Our data also suggest that drugs to prevent opportunistic infections may remain important even for patients with CD4+ counts that are rapidly increasing in response to therapy…" On 4 May the quiet and reserved Fred Shaw had this to say; "…….they are FINALLY admitting that the increase in CD4’s using the drugs has no benefit. What a concept! No clinical improvement. More T-cells do NOT equal better immunity. People still broke out with infections. Doctors had to keep their patients on the prophylaxis while lying about clinical "improvements" because the lab test said so!" excerpted from the thread Cocktail Happy Hour……on the Titanic! The NIAID Ship of Fools. Dave Blade

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not true. Even though CD4 counts fluctuate AIDS diagnoses are (in part) based on SUSTAINED low CD4 counts. Rehashed in this ng over and over again. Nothing is understood about the relationship between cd4 counts and health. Those who claim otherwise are lying. Please see Lang, Perkins, Anderson, et al.,  "Patterns of T Lymphocyte Changes with Human Immunodeficiency Virus Infection: from seroconversion to the Development of AIDS", Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes 2:63-69, 1989 which observed an average 160 cells/uL/year decline in CD4+ T-cells during the 18-months prior to an AIDS diagnosis. Using such meaningless indicators as guides to health, or more irresponsibly as triggers for "treatment" have been a major error. Their value in assessing "HIV and Aids" cases has been totally demolished by research.  Any references for your latest spewage?

Don’t hold your breath, Dave. HIV induces progressive dysfunction followed by numerical depletion of CD4+ lymphocytes.  The following workers showed that antiretroviral treatment of patients with CD4+ counts below 300microliter reduced neither viral replication nor the formation of autoantibodies or gp120-containing immune-complexes.   Thank God for protease inhibition while we find a way to block gp120 and viral entry.  It was also shown that Patients with gp120-containing immune complexes on CD4+ blood lymphocytes demonstrated strongly decreased CD4+ (25+/-35/microliters, P<0.0001) and CD8+ (213+/-212/microliters, P<0.006) lymphocyte counts as well as strongly impaired T lymphocyte responses in vitro upon stimulation with PHA (RR 0.2+/-0.1, P<0.02), PWM (RR 0.2+/_0.2, P=0.05), anti-CD3 MoAb(RR 0.1+/-0.1, P<0.04), and allogeneic stimulator cells (RR 0.2+/-0.1, P<0.02).   Charles P. McCarthy, Clinical Specialist Healthcare Consulting and   Medical Research Carmichael, CA USA "Life is a membrane that reproduces."                    Pandoc Viral load in the serum of HIV-infected hemophilia patients is associated with autoantibodies and gp120-containing immune complexes on CD4+ lymphocytes. Volker D; Susal C; Weimer R; Zipperle S; Kropelin M; Zimmermann R; Huth-Kuhne A; Opelz G Department of Transplantation-Immunology, Institute of Immunology, University of Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Germany. Fax: 06221-56-4200. Int Conf AIDS, 1996 Jul 7-12, 11:2, 267 (abstract no. Th.A.4081) Objective: We reported previously that the sequential occurrence of lgM, lgG and gp120-immunoglobulin-complement complexes on CD4+ lymphocytes is associated with increasing numerical and functional defects of CD4+ lymphocytes in the blood. In this study we investigated whether the induction of antilymphocyte autoantibodies and immune-complexes is associated with the replication of HIV, that is, the viral load in the serum of the patients. Methods: Viral HIV-1 RNA was measured in the sera of 46 HIV+ hemophilia patients using the HIV-1 NASBA-kit and correlated with the lgM/lgG/gp 120 load of circulating CD4+ lymphocytes, CD4 and CD8+ cell counts, serum neopterin levels and in-vitro T-cell responses to mitogens. Results: The number of HIV-1 RNA copies in 100 microliter patient serum was significantly associated with the serum neopterin level (Spearman rank correlation: r=0.38; p=0.009), an impaired ConA (r=-0.14; p=0.01) and PHA stimulation (r=-0.12; p=0.07), and gp120 on CD4+ lymphocytes (p=0.05). Moreover, the immune-complex patterns on CD4+ lymphocytes were significantly associated with CD4+ cell counts and the numbers of viral copies in the serum (Table). Whereas the CD4+ counts were significantly decreased in patients with autoantibodies and immune-complexes, the viral load was higher in patients with autoantibodies or gp 120-containingimmune-complexes on CD4+ lymphocytes. (table: see text) Conclusions: These data suggest that viral replication is associated with the induction of autoantibodies and gp120-containing immune-complexes. Antiretroviral treatment of patients with CD4+ counts below 300microliter reduced neither viral replication nor the formation of autoantibodies orgp120-containing immune-complexes. Association of T cell dysfunction with the presence of IgG autoantibodies on CD4+ lymphocytes in haemophilia patients; results of a 10-year study. Daniel V; S

Question:

   I’ve started a brew of ginger beer and insted of adding 1Kg of sugar I added twice that amount for some extra kick.  The sg was 1.038 but I expected it to be much higher with the extra suger as beer is about 1.040 with only 1Kg of sugar.  Why is this so?  I was under the understanding that the difference in start and finish gravity of the brew was related to the alchol content. The packet says that fermentation stops at 1.006. Will this differ because of the extra suger?  Finally what affect will the extra suger have on the tast, texture,brewing time (in the bottels),and alchol content. Thanks,         Paul McCormick. — – Women, can’t live with them.  Where’s my beer.|                              -

Response:

   I’ve started a brew of ginger beer and insted of adding 1Kg of sugar I added twice that amount for some extra kick.  The sg was 1.038 but I expected it to be much higher with the extra suger as beer is about 1.040 with only 1Kg of sugar.  Why is this so?  I was under the understanding that the difference in start and finish gravity of the brew was related to the alchol content. The packet says that fermentation stops at 1.006. Will this differ because of the extra suger?  Finally what affect will the extra suger have on the tast, texture,brewing time (in the bottels),and alchol content.

The only reason i can think of for the SG not going up with the extra KG of sugar is that you’ve reached the saturation point with the first KG, and the rest sank happily to the bottom of your carboy.  This is especially likely if you saturated the wort while it was hot, and then let it cool. Maybe there’s other reasons; i’m no chemist. The difference in gravity is related to alcohol content directly. (Assuming everything was dissolved when you took your first reading, and accounting for temperature change.)  When dissolved sugar is converted to alcohol, mass is conserved, but density changes.  So you just measure the density change and multiply by a constant (or use the potential alcohol scale on your hydrometer). Anyway, your final gravity is going to be different now that you’ve added another KG of sugar.  Assuming that it will all ferment (though your yeast might die before all that extra sugar goes) there will be more alcohol when you’re finished, so your gravity will be different.  At any rate, you’ll know it’s done when successive hydrometer readings aren’t changing, so don’t worry. Your final question:  alcohol content will more or less double (if you disregard yeast tolerance and other factors, which of course you can’t). Brewing time will no doubt increase.  The beer will have less body then, say, if you added 1KG of malt instead of sugar (which i do when making ginger beer).  And if you used white sugar, it might taste a little harsh. This is all from my experience.  If i’m a little off (or flat wrong) on any of these points, somebody please set me straight.                              Jon Rosenberger

Response: